< 1325376034 944632 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Big Ben is late < 1325376039 788526 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :by a few seconds < 1325376046 379948 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :either that, or ja.net is early < 1325376053 289336 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I trust it more than I trust a mechanical clock < 1325376057 78993 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :HAPPY 2011.9999999999999, EVERYBODY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! < 1325376066 333455 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott is even later < 1325376073 829759 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's 12:01 already < 1325376083 375334 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :HAPPY 2011.9999999999999[10], EVERYBODY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! < 1325376091 211071 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the [] signifies a single digit < 1325376101 786720 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could just use A? < 1325376114 702700 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :happy new year in UK < 1325376154 836482 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fST? < 1325376159 975175 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1325376164 935433 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :-christel- [Global Notice] Happy new Year to the those on fST which covers UK, Portugal, Morocco, Ireland, parts of Spain, Iceland, Cote d'Ivoire, Mali, Togo, Senegal, Gambia, Faroe Islands, Guinea-Bissau, Isle of Man, Greenland, Saint helena, Mauritania, Sao Tome, Guinea, Western Sahara, Ghana, Burkina Faso, Sierra Leone and Liberia! Welcome to 2012 - Year Of The Troll! < 1325376174 397441 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :200C, like they say in "200%X" terms. < 1325376177 177911 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think all the freenode staff are drunk today. < 1325376177 822360 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :wut < 1325376181 87429 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, fST < 1325376181 652282 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1325376184 399083 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :freenode Standard Time? < 1325376184 599231 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :All these messages have been massively typo'd. < 1325376186 728293 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1325376189 240825 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's stupid. < 1325376192 897665 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, but then it's hexadecimal. I suppose pointing that out would break the joke? < 1325376194 729248 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what it *sounds* like. < 1325376195 253088 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Almost as stupid as "libya". < 1325376198 115826 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And "Most of Congo". < 1325376205 241512 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if it is. < 1325376208 303947 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1325376211 477758 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#fst < 1325376216 628719 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is that, yes; you made me remember. < 1325376227 393930 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how I can hear, but not see, fireworks here. < 1325376227 716161 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: it's just standard to use letters for digits past the 10th < 1325376241 357800 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, so it "sort of" is. < 1325376247 250779 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :happy year of the apocalypse, everybody! < 1325376258 30147 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :-christel- 2012 - Year Of The Troll! < 1325376260 90637 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope you have a nice apocalypse and lead up to the apocalypse < 1325376276 958529 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought Freenode /disliked/ trolls? < 1325376280 585291 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :have they changed their mind? < 1325376294 530477 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly their mind change will take effect in 2012. < 1325376306 589797 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i at first misread it as year of the trolley < 1325376313 248570 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you do know there's no reason to think the world will end in 2012, right? < 1325376314 778072 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :year of the trolley would be good < 1325376315 988618 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :#freenode-newyears s very quiet < 1325376323 959034 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/s // < 1325376332 252913 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the common theory about the Mayan calendar was a mistranslation < 1325376336 516818 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: sure there is: everyone who said that would look really stupid < 1325376353 939793 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, you think the world would end just to stop people looking stupid? < 1325376361 225331 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, just to make them look stupid < 1325376369 875616 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely it'd be more in character for it to keep hanging on out of spite? < 1325376406 50277 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, _you_ can hardly talk about there being no logical reason to think that something will happen to the physical universe < 1325376461 225503 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1325376473 263692 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover <- 2011 < 1325376478 70148 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder if i am still ignored < 1325376479 682515 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That bloody church blocked the fireworks again, of course. < 1325376495 712165 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh no, luke-jr is in #freenode-newyears. < 1325376500 865377 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION exits stage left. < 1325376508 581040 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Al Qaeda have been slacking, evidently. < 1325376521 348540 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: who's luke-jr? < 1325376525 382251 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is he an ssh fanboy? < 1325376541 571296 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : That bloody church blocked the fireworks again, of course. <-- huh? < 1325376544 867951 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, he's from #jesus < 1325376556 233628 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, see log from exactly a year ago. < 1325376595 505901 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :good thing fireworks are awful < 1325376600 221737 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ssh fanboy? < 1325376617 899153 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, okay < 1325376619 881405 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: elliott didn't believe me either when I said I knew one < 1325376622 545994 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :until I gave some examples < 1325376641 640654 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does one be a fan of a simple tool? < 1325376649 206072 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1325376651 480408 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy, hahahaha you suck < 1325376656 430668 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy++ < 1325376662 933441 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :As does elliott. < 1325376670 67403 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are evidently also an English pansy. < 1325376672 666489 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree with Phantom_Hoover on something? < 1325376691 141182 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, why would I disagree randomly with Phantom_Hoover? < 1325376701 210774 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, have you long been of the opinion that monqy sucks? < 1325376701 536295 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree with someone against elliott? < 1325376730 137017 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I guess after he said that fireworks are awful < 1325376765 169590 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is the right place. < 1325376779 174613 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, this firework sounds like a cat dying. < 1325376818 805434 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ha ha ha you just have amateur crappy fireworks in people's back gardens. < 1325376830 19853 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not a giant castle with loads and loads of fireworks. < 1325376850 583727 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: we're watching the celebrations in London on TV < 1325376856 383647 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although they're winding down now < 1325376860 492333 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :/those/ aren't pansy fireworks < 1325376866 710574 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :They don't have a castle?? < 1325376868 50151 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: These fireworks aren't from a garden. < 1325376871 989735 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty sure they're the official thing. < 1325376879 299061 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahahaha < 1325376899 550430 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :last I checked fireworks are too illegal here for back gardens to do them < 1325376902 714291 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I live like two blocks away from the official fireworks here. They are quite good. < 1325376918 203399 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: sure? there are fireworks visible from where I live < 1325376919 989826 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy, and yet gun control??? im politic < 1325376922 919150 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, not sure < 1325376924 545517 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :from where I am currently < 1325376935 214864 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't actually live here, maybe they're visible from where I am too < 1325376941 55319 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy, where I am, illegality of fireworks does not stop usage of fireworks. < 1325376946 595087 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :on Guy Fawkes Day, some people set off a firework from the pavement < 1325376949 923479 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm reasonably sure /that's/ illegal < 1325376955 824302 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was a few metres away at the time, so I ran < 1325376957 335188 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : monqy: sure? there are fireworks visible from where I live < 1325376959 446200 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: in America? < 1325376959 939310 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as I wasn't sure how good their aim was < 1325376963 159321 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think fireworks are illegal in Ireland for obvious reasons. < 1325376965 644071 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh, monqy's American? < 1325376969 767486 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought he was British for some reason < 1325376985 172985 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I wouldn't expect fireworks to be illegal in a land of republicans < 1325376991 596871 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good thing America isn't that, then. < 1325376995 62870 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor would I expect democrats to try to ban them < 1325376999 574256 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :too much fallout for too little gain < 1325377002 130755 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you mean rd or RD? < 1325377013 269774 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, do I mean either? < 1325377016 694784 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure what either manes < 1325377020 633147 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, what are the obvious reasons? < 1325377021 807906 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Republicans and democrats or Republicans and Democrats? < 1325377026 839525 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're vastly different things. < 1325377037 111953 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, rD in that situation < 1325377047 182146 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, do you know, like, anything about Irish history in the second half of the 20th century? < 1325377052 899959 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Specifically, Northern Irish? < 1325377053 62080 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My state apparently bans all consumer fireworks. < 1325377056 164243 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: The obvious answer is that the Republicans would ban them, then... < 1325377057 292582 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, oh right that < 1325377060 757662 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, yeah makes sense < 1325377066 138328 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have seen home Fireworks every year (more often) < 1325377068 711140 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, not sure it makes sense for the entire island though < 1325377069 849482 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: (Vorpal just googled it.) < 1325377076 181217 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no I didn't < 1325377076 340782 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: why? they normally wouldn't offend their core voters for no good reason at all < 1325377084 646909 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, Ireland has two nations on them. < 1325377089 96563 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, indeed < 1325377089 943389 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they probably would if given large enough political donations < 1325377092 882939 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*on it < 1325377094 746297 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but nobody really has an incentive to do that either < 1325377099 857757 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I assume you mean the nation Ireland < 1325377100 664288 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I don't see why that would offend their core voters. < 1325377109 575404 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, no? < 1325377115 753267 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean in both. < 1325377118 171241 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: banning fireworks? < 1325377124 912987 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, well that doesn't make much sense to me. < 1325377132 7447 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagine you're ESR and you find out that the government is banning fireworks, what's your reaction? < 1325377133 781264 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consumer_fireworks#United_States, anyway. < 1325377142 11983 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Hahahaha, you think ESR is the typical Republican supporter? < 1325377153 993024 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I think he's an extreme version of a subset of Republican supporters < 1325377155 280381 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ESR is strongly libertarian, the Republican party is nothing of the sort. < 1325377159 835481 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In the Republic of Ireland, the law on fireworks is governed by Part 6 of the Criminal Justice Act 2006. Generally, fireworks are illegal. Private fireworks displays are allowed on two conditions; the fireworks must be licensed for import and a professional fireworks operator must be used." < 1325377161 457619 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you think there's any chance he votes Democrat? < 1325377176 614069 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(he may well vote third party, I guess) < 1325377180 771252 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, but that's quite irrelevant; Republicans aren't, as a general rule, libertarian. < 1325377187 761183 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, in practice, libertarians normally vote republican < 1325377201 519068 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's not like the majority of actual republicans would care either way about fireworks < 1325377285 346777 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Upon further consultation, my mother isn't actually sure whether fireworks are banned in NI, although she's never seen them on sale. < 1325377325 828524 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.nio.gov.uk/the_law_on_fireworks.pdf < 1325377355 35868 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything other than indoor fireworks is banned. < 1325377362 797244 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*requires a licence < 1325377365 93814 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do you think your mother would know whether fireworks are banned in northern island? < 1325377385 272047 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indoor... fireworks? < 1325377414 465586 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: not much different to indoor skiing, surely? < 1325377415 273295 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fireplaces, arson < 1325377416 564115 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, because she is from it, also insists on dragging me there every available opportunity?? < 1325377421 807416 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I see < 1325377430 289218 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :northern ireland is quite a way to drag someone from scotland < 1325377430 610846 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this also applies to my father, my parents are awful) < 1325377437 424928 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my kneeees < 1325377441 616447 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: your parents are both northern-irish? < 1325377448 534011 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1325377457 49675 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahahahaha, lkml.org has google +1 buttons < 1325377458 720746 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so why are you Scottish? < 1325377460 120919 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :on every message < 1325377466 792873 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no true scotsman! < 1325377496 73123 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, because I was born there and I have lived there all my life? < 1325377502 564194 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: hmm < 1325377514 480130 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what would possess northern-irish parents to have a scottish child? < 1325377523 385428 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D < 1325377530 837150 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: WHY ARE YOU SUCH A DISAPPOINTMENT < 1325377550 845256 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mum, dad.... I'm Scottish. < 1325377613 590277 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Category 4 ("professional") fireworks are for sale only to fireworks professionals. They have no restrictions," < 1325377627 221130 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK I need to become a pyrotechnician. < 1325377819 65081 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: that's like wanting to become a locksmith < 1325377832 683051 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that you can legally own lockpicks < 1325377837 207017 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did I mention when I wanted to become a locksmith? < 1325377839 183887 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I totally did. < 1325377850 97557 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote "Category 4 ("professional") fireworks are for sale only to fireworks professionals. They have no restrictions," OK I need to become a pyrotechnician. Phantom_Hoover: that's like wanting to become a locksmith so that you can legally own lockpicks Did I mention when I wanted to become a locksmith? < 1325377860 997217 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :789) "Category 4 ("professional") fireworks are for sale only to fireworks professionals. They have no restrictions," OK I need to become a pyrotechnician. Phantom_Hoover: that's like wanting to become a locksmith so that you can legally own lockpicks Did I mention when I wanted to become a locksmith? < 1325377865 920903 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Can you stab people with lockpicks, I need to be able to enforce the Skyrim protocol. < 1325377867 903206 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1325377871 446951 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lkml? < 1325377886 97176 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1325377895 57564 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hmm, I'm one of those people who's interested in picking locks from a theoretical point of view, because it's interesting in how it works < 1325377903 644512 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yet don't do it because I fear it'd get me into trouble < 1325377915 785830 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's hard to come up with lawful-good reasons to illegally pick locks < 1325377933 179465 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about picking your own locks, or does that damage them? < 1325377955 962204 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: doesn't damage them < 1325377963 397541 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just, they're all far too secure for me to stand any chance < 1325377974 419931 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I picked the lock on a classmate's pencil case once, with their permission < 1325377980 296837 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they didn't believe I'd done it when break ended < 1325377985 295443 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I guess it was a really weak lock) < 1325377986 360431 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what about that time I wanted to pick a lock because there was a chair behind it and then I nearly stabbed some people in enforcement of the Skyrim protocol. < 1325377999 460152 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what /is/ the Skyrim protocol? < 1325378003 912390 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and does it involve BF derivatives? < 1325378005 606975 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : northern ireland is quite a way to drag someone from scotland <-- not really. I just checked in google earth < 1325378022 136064 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: but dragging people across water's a bit tricky < 1325378030 843894 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are bits of scotland that are nearish to bits of northern ireland < 1325378031 973650 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I'll grant you that < 1325378032 979764 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote northern ireland is quite a way to drag someone from scotland <-- not really. I just checked in google earth Vorpal: but dragging people across water's a bit tricky < 1325378036 47055 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :790) northern ireland is quite a way to drag someone from scotland <-- not really. I just checked in google earth Vorpal: but dragging people across water's a bit tricky < 1325378038 503049 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the crow-flies route is rather awkward < 1325378049 293689 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think practical routes for getting from one to the other mostly go via England < 1325378064 991459 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, still not very long < 1325378066 641305 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1325378068 253445 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1325378070 67221 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :471) doctor who. i saw part of one episode of that and it reminded me of buffy the vampire slayer. < 1325378070 222897 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1325378071 682668 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1325378072 812630 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1325378079 51545 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : I think practical routes for getting from one to the other mostly go via England < 1325378081 223565 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :88) bi is like sqrt(2)/2 * straight + i * sqrt(2)/2 * gay < 1325378083 74660 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :596) elliott: ppl should vote clinton because obama is biracial every1 knows that dood, look at him he has been on something lately. < 1325378087 352458 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I mean I travelled longer distances by far in Sweden. < 1325378101 981290 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The one I get dragged on involves driving to a ferry port in the southwest and sailing to Larne. < 1325378125 62769 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :240) vorpal: a lot of people in AK fly quintopia, well getting a pilot cert is a lot more complex than a driving license :P being an AK resident is a lot more complex than a driver's license too < 1325378125 223837 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :673) ais523: those suck hmm, those are all pretty good < 1325378145 816737 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is AK now again? < 1325378164 958258 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arkansas, perhaps? I don't know < 1325378173 983826 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :alaska maybe? < 1325378245 949023 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would anyone be upset if I linked to US political news? < 1325378279 58367 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alaska, apparently. < 1325378291 1674 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, probably, but do it anyway. < 1325378297 510626 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1325378300 12726 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2011/12/virginia-gop-will-require-voters-to-sign-loyalty-oath/ < 1325378324 293224 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, GOP? < 1325378335 254188 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, the Republican party < 1325378342 839575 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Grand Old Party", I think. < 1325378353 309059 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1325378380 156882 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: sadly, I'm desensitized by American politics to the point I can no longer really facepalm at it < 1325378383 381038 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1325378441 213637 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1325378556 206224 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1325378879 203905 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love how carefully that article tries to hide the fact that it's the Republican primaries, not the actual elections, to which this is applied. < 1325378937 225077 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^choo choo < 1325378937 419076 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :choo hoo oo o < 1325379019 427196 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION switches back from DDG to Google. < 1325379043 543589 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: it was pretty obvious to me that it was just applied to primaries < 1325379046 164091 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :^blah blah < 1325379051 841402 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, I thought that was plausible even before the article outright said it < 1325379057 217594 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :^choo blah < 1325379057 374016 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :blah lah ah h < 1325379068 84572 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, sure, but it's not nearly as up-front about it as it should be. < 1325379183 9330 :DCliche!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325379375 59981 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1325379762 540327 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :UTC-1 is reasonably empty? < 1325379794 863312 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess UTC-2 will be even emptier, mostly ocean there < 1325379806 210547 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't iceland be in utc-1 if they were "normal" about it < 1325379982 517406 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1325379994 955315 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1325380396 302114 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1325380444 794050 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I misread that as "UCS-1" and "UCS-2" for a second and was quite confused. < 1325380460 331640 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a UCS-1? < 1325380461 460509 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325380574 677844 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whatever corresponds to the mid-Pacific? < 1325380655 776066 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't Australia in the mid-pacific, in longitude terms? < 1325380707 623244 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing's -10, it seems. < 1325380803 184702 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover, lol < 1325380830 313507 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : wouldn't iceland be in utc-1 if they were "normal" about it <-- they are UTC (possibly with summer time as well? I don't know) < 1325380839 144603 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This includes Antarctica and summer times. < 1325380847 343886 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I checked though so I could SMS a friend on iceland happy new year at the right time < 1325380848 473937 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes, I know. < 1325380900 717460 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : there's a UCS-1? <-- that would be like quite similar to ASCII? < 1325380906 463239 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not quite though < 1325380915 567328 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ascii with surrogates < 1325380917 202292 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so uh < 1325380917 886451 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :utf-8 < 1325380927 256463 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no, UCS doesn't have surrogates < 1325380930 749545 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, err UCS lacks surrogate stuff < 1325380937 988215 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. UCS-2 has no surrogates, UTF-16 does and can encode the whole set < 1325380942 827199 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I guess UCS-1 would just be Latin-1 < 1325380958 127575 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, right < 1325380966 194887 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :who was it in here that played Magicka? < 1325380969 176496 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti < 1325380974 937644 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1325380980 446133 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://www.youtube.com/feather_beta < 1325380995 686888 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I hope that link's offtopic except for the name < 1325381002 468348 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, if it's offtopic, I probably don't want to click it < 1325381004 441747 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I bought the game today. It was on sale. Again. I think it been on sale like 10 times since it was released less than a year ago < 1325381006 165915 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if it's ontopic, I definitely don't < 1325381016 169999 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I could play co-op if anyone is interested < 1325381016 493585 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't click the link < 1325381064 460803 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, huh? What does it actually do (wrt how it displays to the user)? < 1325381080 707452 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the top way of doing it to me would be cutting out the ads. But they are never going to do that < 1325381121 698683 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dunno, don't care. < 1325381175 149774 :{happy_new_year}!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 JOIN :#esoteric < 1325381188 329243 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome < 1325381191 553979 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page < 1325381193 743279 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome 2012 < 1325381196 880939 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2012: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page < 1325381205 649973 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1325381241 931211 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy, that is a regular with a new nick < 1325381249 287402 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :no need to say welcome, we are rude like that < 1325381250 844453 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::o < 1325381272 157981 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy, look at the host ffs < 1325381275 467107 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :* {happy_new_year} (~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17) has joined #esoteric < 1325381284 857983 :{happy_new_year}!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ! < 1325381311 382879 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :-!- {happy_new_year} [~notaregular@yep] has joined #esoteric < 1325381312 511502 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :help < 1325381318 436741 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy, ... < 1325381324 117263 :{happy_new_year}!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1325381334 985226 :{happy_new_year}!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: when was that? < 1325381343 944193 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :a few minutes ago < 1325381350 294049 :{happy_new_year}!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :??? < 1325381360 276039 :{happy_new_year}!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was this nick for ~an hour < 1325381537 677516 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :UPDATE < 1325381543 927488 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, elliott update < 1325381544 410799 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome < 1325381547 159472 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page < 1325381571 291218 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, excuse me I don't recall asking to be removed from the update list. < 1325381572 942755 :{happy_new_year}!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm < 1325381577 613528 :{happy_new_year}!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log {happy_new_year} < 1325381591 124474 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover, sorry < 1325381601 203932 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should be. < 1325381606 164692 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2012-01-01.txt:01:32:52: <{happy_new_year}> umm < 1325381626 630192 :{happy_new_year}!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: you're kidding, right? < 1325381644 625495 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :":asimov.freenode.net 391 zzo38 asimov.freenode.net :Sunday January 1 2012 -- 01:33:39 +00:00" < 1325381669 106455 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :{happy_new_year}: kidding about what < 1325381674 10944 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :In my timezone is "2011/12/31 17:28:08 -0800" < 1325381682 470801 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@time zzo38 < 1325381683 638920 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Local time for zzo38 is 2011/12/31 17:28:27 -0800 < 1325381686 862310 :{happy_new_year}!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :-!- {happy_new_year} [~notaregular@yep] has joined #esoteric < 1325381698 114327 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1325381704 451501 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you caught me < 1325381727 685135 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :rip < 1325381733 495580 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome monqy < 1325381736 494803 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page < 1325381743 586303 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`hi < 1325381747 153211 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: hi: not found < 1325381768 731371 :{happy_new_year}!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 NICK :PiRQuared < 1325381778 739161 :PiRQuared!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 NICK :{happy_new_year} < 1325381840 169339 :{happy_new_year}!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 QUIT :Quit: be back right away... MAYBEEEEEEEEEEE < 1325381852 752335 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Caught you? Caught you with what? < 1325381879 979201 :centrinia!~exc@adsl-184-36-91-20.asm.bellsouth.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@time centrinia < 1325381881 106111 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Local time for centrinia is Sat Dec 31 20:37:53 < 1325381901 601409 :{happy_new_year}!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 JOIN :#esoteric < 1325381906 621256 :{happy_new_year}!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ! < 1325381908 394702 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@time lambdabot < 1325381908 756998 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I live on the internet, do you expect me to have a local time? < 1325381911 606546 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1325381917 387498 :centrinia!~exc@adsl-184-36-91-20.asm.bellsouth.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@time EgoBot < 1325381929 167769 :{happy_new_year}!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@time ChanServ < 1325381968 587909 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@time time time, look what's become of me < 1325381970 32539 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Local time for Time is Sat Dec 31 20:39:21 2011 < 1325382029 842527 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@version lambdabot < 1325382030 486317 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot 4.2.2.1 < 1325382030 642961 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :darcs get http://code.haskell.org/lambdabot < 1325382076 46786 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I managed to make lambdabot to tell anything after "Local time for zzo38 is " including control characters, by using the option /SET ANSWER - < 1325382087 727237 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@time Zetro < 1325382088 694725 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Local time for Zetro is Time: Sun Jan 1 02:38:52 2012, uptime: 19w 3h 37m 36s < 1325382088 850538 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1325382090 356173 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :/SET ANSWER + makes it auto answering < 1325382090 999901 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@time zzo38 < 1325382092 127683 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Local time for zzo38 is 2011/12/31 17:35:15 -0800 < 1325382106 698899 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I turned back on auto answering now < 1325382118 841127 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@time ais523 < 1325382120 492186 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Local time for ais523 is Sun Jan 1 01:41:51 2012 < 1325382121 498396 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, do the not auto answering thing < 1325382128 875778 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it does it via ctcp < 1325382130 687356 :centrinia!~exc@adsl-184-36-91-20.asm.bellsouth.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, Happy new year! < 1325382131 171105 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Auto answering is off. < 1325382135 377698 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's cheating, I thought it had a timezone database < 1325382138 466018 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :happy 2012, centrinia < 1325382139 634624 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@time zzo38 < 1325382148 901861 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Local time for zzo38 is ACTION < 1325382156 116284 :{happy_new_year}!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1325382166 573462 :{happy_new_year}!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION . < 1325382182 573618 :ais523|direct!~ais523|di@cpc6-king9-2-0-cust765.perr.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1325382190 626038 :ais523|direct!~ais523|di@cpc6-king9-2-0-cust765.perr.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I have an idea… < 1325382195 844312 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@time ais523|direct < 1325382202 460501 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: you ruined it < 1325382208 573314 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :utterly < 1325382212 141235 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was going to send a CTCP response < 1325382215 104172 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no < 1325382216 950765 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :/without/ the @time having been given < 1325382227 92414 :ais523|direct!~ais523|di@cpc6-king9-2-0-cust765.perr.cable.virginmedia.com QUIT :Client Quit < 1325382227 414541 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I tried that; it doesn't work < 1325382260 562075 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, ofc, lambdabot would have no way of knowing what channel to send the response to < 1325382290 640281 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes. That is what I thought but tried it anyways to see if it would do anything at all. < 1325382315 27847 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ping ais523 < 1325382315 349553 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pong < 1325382324 570059 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ping ais523 < 1325382324 726436 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I was wondering if it'd ctcp ping me < 1325382324 931479 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pong < 1325382329 761960 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do you have two connections? < 1325382337 940976 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only have one at the moment < 1325382349 914283 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you unable to send CTCP response on the main one? < 1325382383 466039 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I'm not convinced my client would correctly send a CTCP response < 1325382392 727988 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I wanted to handcraft it to make sure it worked properly < 1325382397 374902 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sends them automatically < 1325382403 689130 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, did you try making your client send a CTCP response? < 1325382409 303855 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but clients generally aren't designed to send people unsolicited CTCP responses < 1325382413 861540 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what the command would be < 1325382420 396809 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can do /notice, but not really literal control-a < 1325382464 325293 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least in my client, any control character can be sent by prefixing it with CTRL+P. Maybe in some client you can use CTRL+V for that, though, maybe some others support CTRL+P as well. < 1325382476 921583 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :/notice is not a CTCP command < 1325382480 738296 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an irc NOTICE command < 1325382493 864042 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: a CTCP reply is an irc NOTICE command < 1325382496 540203 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :with control characters in < 1325382505 779021 :{happy_new_year}!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1325382510 363286 :{happy_new_year}!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1325382516 433208 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :specifically, /notice ^ATIME Sun Jan 1 01:41:51 2012^A or whatever < 1325382522 358659 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, yeah < 1325382522 520450 :{happy_new_year}!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :TEST 1 2 3 < 1325382524 777274 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in theory, you can put multiple CTCP responses in the same line < 1325382536 362214 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm not sure if any client actually parses them as such < 1325382546 325735 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You should join the atto project < 1325382546 973349 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1325382552 491944 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :My client parses CTCP requests anywhere in a line. < 1325382561 756210 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, the only thing it does with CTCP responses is displays them. < 1325382573 975119 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't attempt to parse them. < 1325382577 735036 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : but clients generally aren't designed to send people unsolicited CTCP responses <-- xchat has /ctcp and /nctcp iirc, the latter for the reply < 1325382594 83862 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[Error] nctcp: Unknown command. < 1325382601 300609 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: No. < 1325382603 557734 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I sent you a ctcp and a ctcp reply < 1325382605 644951 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :did they work? < 1325382605 845175 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you try pushing CTRL+A? < 1325382609 796061 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes < 1325382611 302235 :{happy_new_year}!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTOIN tests < 1325382613 460891 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1325382616 466618 :{happy_new_year}!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_> < 1325382616 627405 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: selects all text on the line < 1325382620 399566 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I knew that even before testing it < 1325382622 857782 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I tested it anyway < 1325382623 201733 :{happy_new_year}!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY AM I FAILING> < 1325382625 942567 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :actoin < 1325382626 949111 :{happy_new_year}!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTIN tests < 1325382631 137436 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :good good < 1325382631 298704 :{happy_new_year}!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_O < 1325382631 621198 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you push CTRL+P first (or CTRL+V maybe) will that work? < 1325382634 886026 :{happy_new_year}!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tests < 1325382635 368221 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :{happy_new_year}: you can't spell action < 1325382640 727829 :{happy_new_year}!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did it work? < 1325382646 541730 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the third time yes < 1325382651 707631 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: control-v is paste; control-p has no obvious effect < 1325382654 791741 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry for this: < 1325382657 210053 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :VERSION < 1325382659 182999 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and doesn't escape control codes < 1325382660 911292 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not even printing? < 1325382672 67379 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: you can't really print an IRC channel < 1325382676 651136 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could print a log, perhaps, or scrollback < 1325382681 944569 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :-Zetro- VERSION ((\w+) (v?(\d+(?:[a-z]|(?:\.\d+[a-z]?)*(?:[_-](?:\d+[a-z]?|[a-z]?\d*))?)))(?: (.*))?) <-- lol < 1325382682 911427 :{happy_new_year}!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :QUIT :oops < 1325382683 265374 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but neither is an immediately useful thing to do < 1325382687 207877 :{happy_new_year}!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Darn < 1325382693 763308 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CTCP QUIT? < 1325382700 61772 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea what that is for < 1325382701 349488 :{happy_new_year}!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it might work... < 1325382703 524990 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt any client would fall for that by replying with QUIT not with NOTICE < 1325382708 763909 :NihilistDandy!~NihilistD@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325382710 93727 :{happy_new_year}!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1325382714 847320 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could test using CTCP PRIVMSG, I guess < 1325382724 340339 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would be just as futile < 1325382726 868012 :{happy_new_year}!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :PRIVMSG :oops < 1325382727 29425 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION → later today < 1325382727 548637 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PART #esoteric :"Leaving" < 1325382729 248954 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1325382734 235508 :{happy_new_year}!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_> < 1325382744 407421 :{happy_new_year}!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a list of commands? < 1325382745 898146 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :{happy_new_year}, also it isn't going to work, no client responds to unknown ctcp as far as I know < 1325382756 784278 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mine simply ignore any request it doesn't understand, but it does display it regardless. If auto answer is turned off, it doesn't respond to anything either. < 1325382762 768160 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: why did Canada collapse? someone's asking about IRC nomics in another channel < 1325382773 28168 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No I have seen some that makes error message < 1325382777 886454 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :{happy_new_year}, and supported CTCPs are client dependent. There is a generic "get list" which may or may not be supported, which I forgot the name of anyway < 1325382784 853442 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, heh, really < 1325382792 679108 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to remember an edit war over something or other, but can't remember what < 1325382794 976213 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you were there too, can you remember? < 1325382824 238628 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, Canada? Oh the IRC nomic that was stupidly renamed to try to do something silly with agora < 1325382831 48527 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I left around the time it was renamed iirc < 1325382831 249310 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1325382831 405869 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :As far as I know, once someone in this channel tried sending CTCP request in the middle of another message, and my client is the only one that responded. < 1325382838 655342 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there was a war about something earlier < 1325382846 553788 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, don't remember < 1325382853 948576 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah < 1325382862 846087 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because I think my client is the only one following the specifications of IRC more closely than any other one does. < 1325382864 498693 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone still have Canada's ruleset after this long? ISTR Vorpal hosted it < 1325382870 746765 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :no I didn't < 1325382884 199559 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, check your logs? I can't they are on another computer that dual boots and is booted into windows. < 1325382911 55235 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: there's a copy < 1325382911 211380 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I might check when I reboot to linux < 1325382915 106542 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't, I lost my logs from that long ago, IIRC < 1325382915 262644 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :of a slightly old ruleset < 1325382923 69283 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: anyway, it died due to becoming #nomic < 1325382930 273310 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :before that, just lack of activity < 1325382935 755840 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :talking about agora was more interesting < 1325382976 835428 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wasn't doing too well as a nomic even before that < 1325383024 399408 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, New Canada never died < 1325383028 519383 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just barely even lived < 1325383056 427951 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: why not? < 1325383067 181938 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Why not what? < 1325383075 522936 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: join the atto project < 1325383100 325968 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like a very small project < 1325383122 37155 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I doubt it will be written in a programming language I will code in for fun, I doubt it will ever actually go anywhere, and I doubt I would find the end result all that useful/interesting, although that's the point I'm least sure of. < 1325383152 615898 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what is the set of programming languages you code in for fun? < 1325383156 951819 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just {Haskell}, or larger? < 1325383206 457555 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in my case, I wanted to have a go at implementing scapegoat myself < 1325383211 471767 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but couldn't think of an appropriate language < 1325383217 822453 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: {Haskell, occasionally C, sometimes Python, rarely Perl, probably all sorts of obscure things like ATS and Rust and Bit-C and stuff, not C++, not C++, not C++} < 1325383225 706634 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what's that OS you're building called? < 1325383226 834780 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, fair enough < 1325383229 959352 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it definitely won't be C++ < 1325383235 439879 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I ever bother actually coding it < 1325383246 607833 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: we don't know yet; but all instances of @ in a nounish position in the logs are going to be copy-replaced with its name once it is named < 1325383248 792932 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we just call it @ < 1325383260 722136 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I would try to escape those @s, but apparently it can't be escaped) < 1325383270 306213 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: thankfully, replacing X with X is a nop < 1325383273 693753 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, find-replaced < 1325383281 581953 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, nounish? < 1325383284 52039 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a global replacement < 1325383299 288602 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not even email addresses will survive the Revelation < 1325383302 673452 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: what will it be, then? < 1325383318 399882 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: don't you do C++ sudoku for fun sometimes? < 1325383318 723372 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno < 1325383322 790858 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or does that not count as C++ programming? < 1325383344 97665 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's not fun, that's zen < 1325383346 517342 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the atto project is to create a user environment based on vim, but expanded to cover more applications < 1325383359 727046 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :also no suck is allowed < 1325383360 855095 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: oh, that's even less interesting than what I thought it was < 1325383363 295326 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: sort-of like vimperator? < 1325383366 951781 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you're doomed from the start < 1325383368 563714 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, except not < 1325383368 886490 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :only not limited to firefox? < 1325383385 146542 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :vimperator isn't either < 1325383385 952873 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :more like a vim-like DE < 1325383387 40741 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://vimperator.org/ < 1325383396 108316 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: somehow I'm not surprised < 1325383399 794860 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: oh good, it's layering Unix on top of Unix < 1325383409 75018 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you /sure/ you thought out the no suck rule fully? < 1325383415 265916 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: isn't that just Emacs? < 1325383423 85279 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: most emphatically not < 1325383431 964172 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least, the major defining difference between Emacs and vim is that Emacs is a DE and vim isn't < 1325383438 147823 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :things like controls can be remapped < 1325383461 666599 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :emacs doesn't nicely support the notion of a mode < 1325383496 646616 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1325383506 709846 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :emacs has a concept called "mode", you know; and emacs minor modes could be used for vim modes very easily < 1325383513 790758 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably are, in fact < 1325383533 4567 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless I misunderstand, not the in the way I envision them < 1325383540 301656 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :it /is/ possible I misunderstand myself < 1325383556 282046 :{happy_new_year}!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88 [Firefox 11.0a2/20111230042026] < 1325383571 443359 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: well, things like insert/visual/command mode in vi are basically different sets of keybindings, right? < 1325383632 133240 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas an emacs major mode sets things like keybindings and syntax tables and indentation functions and (insert lots of other things here), and a minor mode sets some subset of those < 1325383642 56644 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's easy to envisage a minor mode whose only purpose is to change keybindings < 1325383671 387753 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Not entirely true. Visual mode, for instance, has the notion of a selection < 1325383690 629067 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you don't think emacs modes can add functionality like that... < 1325383702 11533 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I certainly do < 1325383706 221801 :Darth_Cliche!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325383728 492877 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the thing is, it needs to be able to be as uniform as possible across different purposes < 1325383801 532367 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I was just testing out M-x viper-mode < 1325383811 483954 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is basically vi keybindings in Emacs < 1325383893 464650 :NihilistDandy!~NihilistD@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb, restarting < 1325383900 98765 :NihilistDandy!~NihilistD@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com < 1325383931 11388 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I think part of the problem is that a vi-like interface makes no sense for many programs < 1325383932 945930 :DCliche!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1325383937 825675 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how would you put one on a calendar program, for instance? < 1325383973 557454 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1325384008 961094 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: whenever I buy my wicked gaming desktop I'd be down for some co-op < 1325384022 961855 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I actually own the game, but lack a computer with which to play it. < 1325384064 370841 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so how are you on IRC? < 1325384069 164651 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: cursor navigates time, can insert events at cursor, or whatever < 1325384074 731344 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is this one of those games that doesn't run well on low-end laptops? < 1325384078 849510 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'll let you figure that out. < 1325384080 337608 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::> < 1325384087 474782 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/run well/run at all/ < 1325384098 380383 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: oh, I forgot the last reason: I have about 10x more projects than I can handle anyway < 1325384103 616852 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: duh < 1325384103 939810 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I'm used to new games running even on old hardware < 1325384114 239725 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do you think I'm starting this one? < 1325384116 496601 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :typically not with massively good graphics/framerates/etc < 1325384123 760520 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not even because it's old. < 1325384136 635448 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: modern computers with integrated graphics cards just don't cut it < 1325384150 1611 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just because the code throws an exception due to the lack of a good graphics cards or something. I don't remember the specific error. < 1325384150 163988 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure? I've played computer games on them < 1325384181 531717 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I play Neverwinter Nights on my integrated laptop even now, and played it on an integrated graphics laptop back when I first bought it < 1325384182 15302 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's an indie game made by like, ~5 people I think? So I'm not going to expect them to add every feature that you'd expect from a more expensive game. < 1325384185 239955 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I think it was reasonably new then < 1325384194 936312 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nwn predates shaders doesn't it < 1325384207 612873 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION can even play SC2 on his laptop though it's a bit laggy. Magicka? nope. < 1325384236 591327 :NihilistDandy!~NihilistD@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325384255 373289 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: just patch the library it's using to determine the graphics card to return a different result? < 1325384268 183646 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :granted, despite the fact that Magicka doesn't seem like a graphically intense game, it does employ a lot of shaders, particle effects, physics, etc. < 1325384275 573811 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: .. < 1325384288 353861 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt that's going to be easy. < 1325384294 602030 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: might be a patch on the forums to do that < 1325384301 648888 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what happened with Neverwinter Nights, for me < 1325384304 293797 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :last I checked there was no way to fix it. < 1325384310 821219 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was crashing on Linux but there was a patch that masked the existence of a capability, then it wasn't < 1325384353 134571 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the reason modern games don't work on intel is that intel only has old shaders < 1325384360 639403 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :flipping a gfx card check will not help. < 1325384401 961166 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :old shaders = fixed pipeline where you only get to plug numbers into a prewritten shader, effectively? < 1325384410 768589 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, are you sure? < 1325384425 664961 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, what? < 1325384432 799907 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shaders are programmable pipeline < 1325384437 383184 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :intel just only does glsl 1.2 < 1325384501 336067 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, OK < 1325384505 403719 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes a lot more sense < 1325384524 747810 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(fixed pipeline can be seen as simply being forced to use prewritten shaders) < 1325384565 758196 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, comparing neverwinter nights to current games is ridiculous, because GPUs have advanced a few lightyears since then < 1325384597 60430 :MSleep!~fyrc@or-67-238-19-212.dhcp.embarqhsd.net NICK :MDude < 1325384606 526918 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and desktops have got many times more powerful; so have laptops, but lower-end ones skimp heavily on things like graphics relative to mid-end-upwards stuff to save power, so that their batteries last a lot longer than they did back then < 1325384634 601266 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :adanaxis runs nicely on this laptop too, and it does crazy things with shaders < 1325384650 280943 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pity that normal GPU matrices only go up to 4x4, adanaxis could really do with 5x5 < 1325384650 764805 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 JOIN :#esoteric < 1325384673 289774 :PiRSquared17_!~chatzilla@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 JOIN :#esoteric < 1325384676 860060 :PiRSquared17_!~chatzilla@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PART :#esoteric < 1325384699 890993 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt it does /that/ crazy things < 1325384701 444371 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1325384761 699403 :centrinia!~exc@adsl-184-36-91-20.asm.bellsouth.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are there any five dimensional space shooters? < 1325384829 964300 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1325384852 547565 :centrinia!~exc@adsl-184-36-91-20.asm.bellsouth.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, are there? :p < 1325384950 675825 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make one < 1325385061 848068 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make two < 1325385090 806472 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :make 0 < 1325385096 568092 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :make clean all < 1325385097 414409 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make -1 < 1325385164 608732 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :make pi r^2 17 < 1325385490 712046 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :make make < 1325385493 291823 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :man make < 1325385494 690823 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :make man < 1325385703 822352 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`man man < 1325385706 970961 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :man: can't open the manpath configuration file /etc/manpath.config < 1325385712 798694 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`make man < 1325385715 940933 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :make: *** No rule to make target `man'. Stop. < 1325385760 208423 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ celebrate you know what celebrate needs? < 1325385762 465016 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :^celebrate you know what celebrate needs? < 1325385762 625983 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : \o| |o| |o/ \m/ \m/ |o/ \o/ \o| \m/ \m/ \o| |o| |o/ < 1325385763 270843 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :69  |   |   |    `\o/´69    |   |   |    `\o/´69    |   |   | < 1325385763 593154 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :69 /|  /|  /|      |     /'\ /|   >\     |     /|  /|  /< < 1325385763 749203 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :69             (_|¯'\                   /'\ < 1325385763 915726 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :69                  |_)               (_| |_) < 1325385769 97082 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :^rainbow a little more rainbow < 1325385769 258372 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :2a3 4l5i6t7t8l9e2 3m4o5r6e7 8r9a2i3n4b5o6w < 1325385795 44467 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything needs a little more rainbow < 1325385809 182828 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1325385813 741308 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :all my websites will be in rainbow colors < 1325385823 87984 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :even the ones people pay me to create. < 1325385842 792962 :NihilistDandy!~NihilistD@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving... < 1325385863 529798 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION bset wob dseinger < 1325385872 109181 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^celebrate 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 < 1325385872 264859 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : \o| |o| |o/ \m/ \m/ |o/ \o/ \o| \m/ \m/ \o| |o| |o/ < 1325385872 914832 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :69  |   |   |    `\o/´69    |   |   |    `\o/´69    |   |   | < 1325385873 237622 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :69 /<   |\  |\     |      |\  |\  |\     |      |\ /´\  |\ < 1325385873 393236 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :69                /'¯|_)                /´\ < 1325385873 559031 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :69              (_|                   (_| |_) < 1325386350 440340 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, kallisti update. Phantom_Hoover's not on the list because he's not here. < 1325386374 512060 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: thanks for the elliott update earlier < 1325386388 456574 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're welcome < 1325386395 662614 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I AM NOT WELCOME < 1325386400 436339 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU < 1325386411 655302 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome Sgeo < 1325386414 836840 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page < 1325386415 986385 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is weclome < 1325386420 741457 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is weclome < 1325386425 621156 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :THIS IS WECLOME < 1325386428 688522 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :aaaaaaaaaaaah < 1325386431 322429 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unwelcome kallisti < 1325386433 908284 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: unwelcome: not found < 1325386436 134823 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1325386439 364402 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :much bteter < 1325386507 841184 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihihihihihihihihihihihihih < 1325386522 842778 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 3 :> [4] < 1325386523 488726 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: data constructor `:>' < 1325386847 264562 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finnmark is RELLLLAAAALKLLL~! < 1325386908 337679 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 NICK :[Finnmark|Away] < 1325386945 57710 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325386952 965317 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1325386953 464499 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. < 1325386959 246228 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages < 1325386959 408450 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover said 1h 13m 41s ago: CRITICAL INTELLIGENCE UPDATE: elliott lives in the Abbey, move to intercept. < 1325386974 512843 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, any good torrent client suggestions for windows? < 1325387006 507023 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have used a program called "Another BitTorrent Client" < 1325387044 639308 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :also wtf make cancel the default button in an open dialogue < 1325387050 929458 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use Torrent < 1325387052 381571 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :why does ktorrent (on linux) do that < 1325387065 217595 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know! < 1325387074 509948 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, thanks. How does it compare to ktorrent in functionality < 1325387077 933982 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No idea < 1325387085 949358 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, it was a rhetorical question < 1325387093 15689 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never used ktorrent, and I've barely used Torrent < 1325387097 480648 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1325387103 776609 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll wait for elliott then < 1325387113 140732 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1325387115 446797 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really only use... Transmission? THe one that's default on Ubuntu < 1325387122 496233 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: just use utorrent < 1325387125 760420 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, okay < 1325387145 610500 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or deluge < 1325387146 416889 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess < 1325387149 641615 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but everyone just uses utorrent < 1325387155 160860 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: Bit late for you to be on. < 1325387158 798101 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually... I forgot the port forwarding assignment for that computer. I'll just use the configured ktorrent on my laptop < 1325387162 543776 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then scp it over < 1325387166 896121 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle stdGen < 1325387167 379236 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :System.Random data StdGen < 1325387167 535497 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :System.Random getStdGen :: IO StdGen < 1325387167 535674 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :System.Random mkStdGen :: Int -> StdGen < 1325387169 690512 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I was saving up < 1325387170 174106 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm so lazy < 1325387184 340047 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t random < 1325387185 306750 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall g a. (Random a, RandomGen g) => g -> (a, g) < 1325387186 755856 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, I bought magicka on the sale today < 1325387204 893650 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoever reads MSPA: Possibly update? < 1325387207 350547 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, (complete pack even, it was so cheap) < 1325387209 956182 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dunno if you know already < 1325387239 534001 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, I still find it very hard. I guess I could play co-op with someone. Don't know any friend who owns it. Unless I count you as a friend. < 1325387406 139376 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 JOIN :#esoteric < 1325387563 844655 :NihilistDandy!~NihilistD@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325387571 566087 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, which game? < 1325387587 115503 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, magicka < 1325387590 323308 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should read < 1325387693 800535 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish strings has an option to ignore stupid strings like "T$4P" < 1325387807 261394 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: Dude, it's way past your bedtime. You're scaring me. < 1325387822 736147 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it is way past my bedtime too < 1325387887 915307 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :whats a bedtime < 1325387892 505816 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder whether the attention to detail in this feature request is a sign that it will never get fixed, or that it will get fixed rapidly. < 1325388597 168264 :[Finnmark|Away]!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 NICK :PiRS|Finnmark < 1325388608 691464 :PiRS|Finnmark!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi < 1325388636 326537 :centrinia!~exc@adsl-184-36-91-20.asm.bellsouth.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1325389161 660479 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1325389172 228710 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_Not_here, elliott kallisti update < 1325389271 837568 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :im phantomhoovernothere < 1325389278 620126 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :my traditional scottish name < 1325389288 465092 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: It's almost 4 am, man. < 1325389455 502033 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can I disable space to scroll in Chrome? < 1325389984 730909 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably not unless there's some exttension < 1325390097 386233 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I downloaded Firefox instead :/ < 1325390253 609265 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1325391182 172269 :PiRS|Finnmark!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 NICK :PiRSquared17 < 1325391744 856906 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1325391770 70939 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1325392165 165680 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: Goodbye < 1325393257 710345 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: Does the new kind-lifting stuff in GHC let me have type-level rational literals? < 1325393630 859842 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :happy new year folks < 1325393901 622533 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325393942 667950 :Darth_Cliche!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1325394356 30573 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, update < 1325394927 648334 :van3!~unknown@200-081-038-141.wireless.movistar.net.ar JOIN :#esoteric < 1325394982 732150 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome van3 < 1325394985 710665 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :van3: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page < 1325395116 455016 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1325395129 91359 :van3!~unknown@200-081-038-141.wireless.movistar.net.ar PART :#esoteric < 1325395392 558921 :yorick!~yorick@unaffiliated/yorick QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1325395404 865636 :yorick!~yorick@unaffiliated/yorick JOIN :#esoteric < 1325395507 842510 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"[...] very soft and savory with a hint of ammonia." --[[Brie]] < 1325395515 231556 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Delicate ammonia flavours. < 1325395653 28293 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm gonna create a language and call it Computer Language Especially Atrociously Named Ex Retronym. < 1325395917 285560 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Crass. Only ocular lenses should take over really yawnful brands. Really ostentatious. < 1325395921 252091 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :cleaner is stupid < 1325395921 573919 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@222.122.156.78 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: no, it has to be recursively acronymed! *wink* < 1325395929 369622 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how all three of us responded at once. < 1325395932 509351 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Minutes after the original message. < 1325395975 306018 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@222.122.156.78 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i was waiting for the next train while diligently searching for free Wi-Fis < 1325396003 226388 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@222.122.156.78 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the perfect moment to answer such message. < 1325396192 918224 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION just assumes tswett decoded his CLEVER HIDDEN MESSAGE. < 1325396210 487848 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :happy new year elliott < 1325396220 717872 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-19-212.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Happy new year < 1325396296 182334 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly loads'a effort vanquished egregious retardations, hailing immaculate decisions deduced excellently, natch. Must emissaries so slowly aggregate greater extensionality? < 1325396364 612772 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1325396396 358788 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have no sympathy for drunk me do you elliott < 1325396422 476011 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Happy axiomatically passing pages, yes. Never entirely wishful, ye ending alienates really epic lying losers. Oh, tut tut. < 1325396490 123747 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :you missed an i < 1325396505 61507 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1325396512 39558 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*losers, idiot. < 1325396550 911169 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :that works < 1325396583 159202 :kallisti!~eris@h69-129-164-136.nlsnga.dsl.dynamic.tds.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325396583 480615 :kallisti!~eris@h69-129-164-136.nlsnga.dsl.dynamic.tds.net QUIT :Changing host < 1325396583 636902 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1325396660 322280 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: You, oak underneath, hellishly amputate viral exoskeletons. Nashville, Oklahoma, Sydney: You may pass all these houses, yet for only raucous drunkness realise ugliness' new kin. Masculinity exits, dodos opine. Yeah, only umbral exegeses light likenesses, in other terms: tawdry. < 1325396737 319066 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*likenesses; < 1325396737 475422 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, you may have missed updates < 1325396773 733675 :lahwran!lahwran@unaffiliated/lahwran PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Malbolge < 1325396775 829937 :lahwran!lahwran@unaffiliated/lahwran PRIVMSG #esoteric :mother of god ... < 1325397081 518694 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: all real exogenous yeomen originate under sexually urban crushing herbal arid dungeons. only underground citizens have exceptionally badass gregarious selves. < 1325397084 577816 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1325397112 648387 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you such a douche bgs? < 1325397119 83980 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I... don't know whether I'm such a douche bgs. < 1325397163 434692 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :baf ass should have been two words < 1325397170 613362 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :forgive me, i'm drunk < 1325397190 786743 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-19-212.dhcp.embarqhsd.net NICK :MSleep < 1325397205 749330 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just came back now, saw the message starting "You, oak underneath, hellishly amputate..." and immediately understood what it meant... you aren't hiding anything, really... < 1325397262 660739 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Fortunately, opium-red grass imitates vain endings. Moreover, entities' idolaters move drunk robotic understandings. Never know. < 1325397419 858275 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :such ostentatious drivel. really underestimating new krewlness < 1325397454 844046 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i agree @ elliorr < 1325397462 413729 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^tt < 1325397470 899985 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sod runk indeed. < 1325397648 272402 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1325397689 257111 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't understand what zzo38 said < 1325397732 253826 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The prior statement was an attempt at a joke, which I am now aborting. < 1325397733 382912 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think what zzo38 said is "You, oak underneath, hellishly amputate..." translates to "you aren't hiding anything, really..." < 1325397760 665016 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ie. < 1325397801 228819 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"saw the message starting X and immediately understood what it meant... Y" is akin to "X translates to Y" < 1325397842 950775 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :with temporal qualifiers removed < 1325398889 48457 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1325398999 602760 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hugs zzo38  < 1325399019 578361 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :happy new year zzo38 ... in a couple hours < 1325399337 199619 :NihilistDandy!~NihilistD@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com < 1325399612 698838 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :which year is it in china? < 1325400075 322184 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: No. That isn't what it translates to. < 1325400078 783535 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :That isn't what I meant. < 1325400127 720454 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: I don't know what year it is in China, but I know when Chinese New Year is (although it only applies when using Chinese calendar; even in China they do not use it all the time as far as I can tell) < 1325400196 613664 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1325400358 326334 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know the timezones in China? I don't know what all the timezones of the world are, although I could look it up in a book or in Wikipedia < 1325400502 137253 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's a good frontend for gnuplot? < 1325400503 427042 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or < 1325400512 199859 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's good software for generating a plot of a sinwave? < 1325400520 871899 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/sin/$& / < 1325400802 916169 :Guest64412!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325401237 160014 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: when tne chinese new year happens what animal will it be < 1325401381 301394 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know that either < 1325401445 162409 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1325401619 177257 :Guest64412!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: SLEEP, GLORIOUS SLEEP < 1325401672 513147 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 QUIT :Quit: Bye! < 1325403927 540137 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1325404510 176957 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1325404514 161173 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :My internet just died /badly/ < 1325404518 303628 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm on 3G atm < 1325404528 346753 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it says it is connected but it just doesn't work < 1325404563 552248 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :it works < 1325404573 529043 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, obviously my 3G works < 1325404576 223029 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not my ADSL < 1325404577 68663 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :duh < 1325404604 601722 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1325404632 879722 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, but the 3G is so much slower and also restricted to my laptop unless I setup some fancy sharing or something < 1325404709 809147 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh kay! < 1325404790 219625 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah now my ADSL works intermittently, will keep the chat over 3G for a bit until it stabilised... < 1325404976 124280 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1325405222 899329 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and switching back < 1325405851 379467 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1325406015 504954 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1325408125 340260 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1325413944 706061 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1325415256 921181 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1325415564 512359 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1325416031 47113 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1325416819 20955 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : CTCP QUIT? < 1325416862 929182 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's times like these when it's annoying to read the logs, when they don't include everything people are talking about :( < 1325416884 73696 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: ^ *cough* < 1325416910 365233 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yes, I think they should include non-channel PRIVMSGs too. < 1325416928 272167 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: um i was assuming that was sent to the channel? < 1325416942 531660 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could be; that was an irrelated comment. < 1325416997 105634 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically on a channel as experimental as #esoteric, a logbot shouldn't filter out information, not even malformed such < 1325417018 106104 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(yeah i know about the raw logs) < 1325417039 268247 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOWDOESTHISAPPEARINMYLOGS < 1325417088 797964 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hah, my bouncer doesn't log CTCP either. What a multiball. < 1325417109 865068 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey QUIT :Quit: The Other Game < 1325417337 573520 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the bad old days, a CTCP PING +++ATH0 used to drop a number of people. < 1325417368 408450 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325417395 420932 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :As well as "ping -p 2b2b2b415448300d0a". < 1325417417 304783 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1325417423 394541 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(There's also the variant which dials up a phone sex number afterwards.) < 1325417497 984260 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: don't you do C++ sudoku for fun sometimes? <-- what is C++ sudoku? i assume it's nothing as boring as programming sudoku in C++ < 1325417597 993488 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC it's just "C++ as a time-wasting brain exercise". < 1325417713 183839 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal: You know how people play Sudoku as a time-wasting brain exercise? < 1325417713 340159 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric : C++ is like that, but better. < 1325417713 340344 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :[...] < 1325417713 340467 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric : I failed at C++ Sudoku for the first time today :( < 1325417713 340574 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric : it is not possible to create a boolean type such that "if (True)" works but < 1325417713 829040 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric : "if (True && 9)" doesn't < 1325417715 643670 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :[...] < 1325417717 738888 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric : monqy: c++ sudoku is my invention and mine alone, also im the only known player, you should try though, you just need a copy of the C++0x features list, a recent g++ compiler, and an ability to forget that things aren't jokes < 1325417776 779487 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1325417862 8099 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1325418054 2326 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :^celebrate < 1325418054 158885 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : \o| |o| |o/ \m/ \m/ |o/ \o/ \o| \m/ \m/ \o| |o| |o/ < 1325418054 811326 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :69  |   |   |    `\o/´69    |   |   |    `\o/´69    |   |   | < 1325418055 133446 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :69 /`\  >\  |\     |     /'\ /'\ /<      |     /´\  |\  >\ < 1325418055 289470 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :69             (_|¯`¯|_)                /'\ < 1325418055 289580 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :69                                    (_| |_) < 1325418074 763694 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION was testing if it did anything different with +c off < 1325418139 395356 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about a 5\o/ < 1325418139 877103 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :69              | < 1325418140 200116 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :69             /`\ < 1325418154 534164 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aw, no color-following; now it just looks like an excessively angry dude. < 1325418163 727452 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :explosive man < 1325418198 517400 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was hoping for it to pretend the color code had a width < 1325418257 450825 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if it also doesn't mind \5o/ < 1325418257 772987 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :69                                  | < 1325418258 214552 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :69                                 /´\ < 1325418282 823271 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very good. < 1325418288 736843 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it uses all those strange control codes itself (which i cannot see in irc but which show up in the logs) < 1325418303 745244 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : \o/ < 1325418304 107018 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :69 | < 1325418304 429772 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :69/< < 1325418332 537135 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :good ideas:1,1\o/ < 1325418333 20751 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :69           | < 1325418333 383006 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :69           |\ < 1325418349 849144 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh no, the blockhead. < 1325418364 851299 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :0,0 \m/ \m/ < 1325418365 174183 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :69     `\o/´69 < 1325418365 497551 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :69       | < 1325418365 653811 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :69   (_|¯'\ < 1325418365 653991 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :69        |_) < 1325418392 350275 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 isn't black? < 1325418397 636108 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 is black < 1325418401 328496 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 is white. < 1325418412 281773 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1,1\m/ \m/ < 1325418412 604972 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :69      `\o/´69 < 1325418412 927956 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :69        | < 1325418413 84379 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :69       /´\ < 1325418413 84558 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :69     (_| |_) < 1325418472 924702 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1,1\o| |o| |o/ \m/ \m/ |o/ \o/ \o| \m/ \m/ \o| |o| |o/ < 1325418473 248210 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :69  |   |   |    `\o/´69    |   |   |    `\o/´69    |   |   | < 1325418473 732369 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :69 /|  /<   |\     |      |\ /<  /|      |     /<   |\ /`\ < 1325418473 888813 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :69                /´¯|_)                /'\ < 1325418473 888994 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :69              (_|                   (_| |_) < 1325418559 935671 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : Finnmark is RELLLLAAAALKLLL~! <-- how sad that i broke him < 1325418591 801275 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a screwy set of colors, but OTOH no-one seems to be able to agree on what the 16 terminal colors should look like, beyond the overall "four bits stand for IBGR, more or less" direction. < 1325418593 912967 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and of course there's Hordaland when you want some hordes < 1325418626 959899 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and all us ops are from Oppland, naturally < 1325418652 255730 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`words --finnish 15 < 1325418663 414196 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :vananistaan riippulstetys hahteessämme säisimpieskiehum pelömme muodollamme pohjakavakiirtämiä saanemiltäni pitämällään mella mallani tupelakommillomiksi ulkevyempinertä ahdistuttavissa kateuttamme < 1325418674 823647 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the rogues come from Rogaland < 1325418701 940004 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically norwegian counties contain all the names you need for a proper D&D game < 1325418728 738992 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lots of long-ish real words there, "muodollamme", "pitämällään", "ahdistuttavissa", "kateuttamme". < 1325418741 745940 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`words --norwegian 15 < 1325418745 361236 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :sursforsøk radiner tankaperapen logien fasissamlovertykksamvir tillene dampbevistilla formeieorierordr trafikaeneruneskyla yrkeroinstor marbehandle mimregn hodeltaktet tingsbehandpla hovektens < 1325418771 173372 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :sursforsøk is clearly a scientific term < 1325418799 413481 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and biologists have seeked long for the mysterious tankaperape < 1325418837 618888 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and when your proofs are not up to steam, use dampbevistilla < 1325418864 401493 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :marbehandle sounds like the kind of treatment you want to avoid < 1325418874 20367 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That is: "with our shape", "with the thing e held", "in the anxiety-inducing" and "our regret" in the partitive case, i.e. used as an object.) < 1325418879 487469 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :marbehandle sounds like a Dwarf Fortress < 1325418884 337383 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :mimregn is like rain, except it makes no sound < 1325418934 98553 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1325418934 743692 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if you don't know how much ho you have, use a hovekt < 1325418970 787970 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have always wanted to know how much ho i have < 1325418976 593373 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or just get a ho-over. A phantom such. < 1325418979 696271 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :after which you can split them with the hodeltakt < 1325419014 401562 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy, so you want a hovekt with type indices? < 1325419064 798844 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :my ho is very precious to me; i want only the best < 1325419090 582793 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: Goodbye < 1325419092 745130 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are all your hovekt manipulation functions formally verified? < 1325419104 564179 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd could not deal with all these hos. < 1325419106 337731 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: but is it a forward or backward ho? < 1325419121 783218 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry -a < 1325419122 589544 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, hos only go one way, you dolt. < 1325419135 690457 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a mass noun < 1325419149 151669 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ho only goes one way, you dolt. < 1325419155 389355 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1325419162 601406 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :always forward ho, check < 1325419224 374830 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ho also means "she" in nynorsk < 1325419252 271734 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ho ho ho? < 1325419280 527821 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and who wouldn't want some nice dried radiner < 1325419318 524860 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`words --english 15 < 1325419322 112890 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknown option: english < 1325419325 900474 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1325419335 803280 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`paste bin/words < 1325419339 152124 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.20211 < 1325419356 617179 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`words --eng-gb 15 < 1325419361 613255 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :eed fix hornicagli splum donary puftyfrydic signie mufk quho ston legealessio lehing incaryfev navige hon < 1325419366 48188 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(one problem with inserting norwegian into english sentences is whether to strip suffixes or not - if you don't strip the definite suffix it feels wrong whether you put a "the" in front or not) < 1325419371 933357 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :puftyfrydic, yum yum < 1325419396 772613 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I've been to Incaryfev. < 1325419416 520064 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`words --irish 15 < 1325419419 584220 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :b'iora sceiltír spalasaí bpeir gcugan harfóra néivear m'uragaigh gcoirní staíl spiachánach ráfla sciméapa neamhbhreach m'easuaiméis < 1325419424 119429 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i need some splum for the donary, hon < 1325419454 99558 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Neamhbhreach is only a little implausible as an Irish name. < 1325419468 981686 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: you know irish? < 1325419469 466120 :baesemada!baesemada@151.81.169.193 JOIN :#esoteric < 1325419475 989851 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I know Irish names. < 1325419505 250669 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're characterised by 'h'es where no 'h'es should there be. < 1325419590 155624 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :03:02:39: @messages < 1325419590 312093 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :03:02:39: Phantom__Hoover said 1h 13m 41s ago: CRITICAL INTELLIGENCE UPDATE: elliott lives in the Abbey, move to intercept. < 1325419596 587005 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hexham will never be the same < 1325419818 897622 :baesemada!baesemada@151.81.169.193 QUIT : < 1325420143 23084 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :* elliott just assumes tswett decoded his CLEVER HIDDEN MESSAGE. <-- ejatdhCHM? that makes no sense man < 1325420208 168039 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's backwards for MHChdtaje. < 1325420212 792456 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1325420251 890698 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@ppp-70-251-230-64.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325420252 407339 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@ppp-70-251-230-64.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net QUIT :Changing host < 1325420252 564061 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan JOIN :#esoteric < 1325420432 627785 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:46:13: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Malbolge < 1325420432 784123 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:46:15: mother of god ... < 1325420440 549072 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, more like the opposite, i'd say < 1325420447 584951 :lahwran!lahwran@unaffiliated/lahwran PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1325420491 506347 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :opposite of mother of god. < 1325420492 379732 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :dog fo rehtom < 1325420506 127234 :lahwran!lahwran@unaffiliated/lahwran PRIVMSG #esoteric :god of mothers? < 1325420511 894767 :lahwran!lahwran@unaffiliated/lahwran PRIVMSG #esoteric :father of god? < 1325420520 891593 :lahwran!lahwran@unaffiliated/lahwran PRIVMSG #esoteric :mother of satan? < 1325420528 333785 :lahwran!lahwran@unaffiliated/lahwran PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could go on for hours, which one do you mean? < 1325420529 360804 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :getting close < 1325420540 245127 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :lahwran: well which one fits with malbolge? < 1325420554 306066 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION pun appreciation lessons < 1325420559 337295 :lahwran!lahwran@unaffiliated/lahwran PRIVMSG #esoteric :"mother of god" works nicely < 1325420564 889080 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zbgure bs tbq < 1325420576 723818 :lahwran!lahwran@unaffiliated/lahwran PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=mother+of+god < 1325420583 471737 :lahwran!lahwran@unaffiliated/lahwran PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If something unbelieveable happens or is so unexpected and you cant believe your eyes, you can then say 'Mother of GOD!'" < 1325420585 919285 :lahwran!lahwran@unaffiliated/lahwran PRIVMSG #esoteric :I rest my case :3 < 1325420633 783549 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but that's not punny enough. < 1325420654 262814 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wordplay, whatever < 1325420806 250340 :lahwran!lahwran@unaffiliated/lahwran PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm busy reading gender-related holy wars on reddit, can't think about puns < 1325420832 888653 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lahwran: Solution: Stop reading Reddit. < 1325420845 591999 :lahwran!lahwran@unaffiliated/lahwran PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeeeeaahhh that's a good idea < 1325420849 312393 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reddit is stupid. Especially "gender-related holy wars" on it. < 1325420891 944698 :lahwran!lahwran@unaffiliated/lahwran PRIVMSG #esoteric :"holy wars" on the internet in general are stupid, but very entertaining < 1325420894 602103 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't visit the reddit front page any more these days. < 1325420913 661185 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :holy wars as in < 1325420943 258402 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Reddit front page is OK once you unsubscribe from every single subreddit. < 1325420944 65809 :lahwran!lahwran@unaffiliated/lahwran PRIVMSG #esoteric :"you're right and I'm wrong, and I won't listen to reason even if you're not trying to disagree with me" kinda stuff < 1325420961 238742 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: i'm not logged in, so i mean the default set < 1325420962 690767 :lahwran!lahwran@unaffiliated/lahwran PRIVMSG #esoteric :happens a lot with programming languages, too. perl vs python, anyone? < 1325420966 428468 :lahwran!lahwran@unaffiliated/lahwran PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1325420991 602235 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :never heard a proper perl vs python < 1325420998 968854 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I'm not logged in either. < 1325421014 294262 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really log in to websites anymore. < 1325421020 490240 :lahwran!lahwran@unaffiliated/lahwran PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: honestly, I haven't either < 1325421058 380502 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :of what use is a holy war if both sides are wrong < 1325421075 824190 :lahwran!lahwran@unaffiliated/lahwran PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't need that qualifier on there < 1325421076 962308 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: Eliminating wrong people from both sides. < 1325421083 337042 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what war is about. < 1325421097 896055 :lahwran!lahwran@unaffiliated/lahwran PRIVMSG #esoteric :in general holy wars imply that any aggressive side is wrong :P < 1325421104 562737 :lahwran!lahwran@unaffiliated/lahwran PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, often the unaggressive sides too < 1325421151 955356 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm in a holy war with my pants -- in particular the knee area. < 1325421154 375108 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm losing. :-( < 1325421167 35098 :lahwran!lahwran@unaffiliated/lahwran PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1325421186 869541 :lahwran!lahwran@unaffiliated/lahwran PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm proud to say the knees of my pants have stayed mostly assembled in recent years < 1325421188 173338 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :my pants and I have a mutual respect < 1325421204 179845 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm in a holy war with god. it's rather frustrating. < 1325421243 769792 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: A holier-than-thou war? < 1325421292 409083 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: the guy just won't come to his senses < 1325421406 751874 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean i keep saying "making a universe where suffering is a building block, that's just atrocious" but he just won't have any of it. < 1325421667 703778 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Can't you just _fix_ it already?" "*THUNDERBOLT*" < 1325421713 646549 :lahwran!lahwran@unaffiliated/lahwran PRIVMSG #esoteric :nahahaha < 1325421719 312304 :lahwran!lahwran@unaffiliated/lahwran PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/n/b/ < 1325421968 553295 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325422003 114167 :mr_schlauch!threeohthr@wololo.at.freebnc.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325422216 130415 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1325422261 634405 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goodbye! < 1325422263 184922 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net QUIT :Client Quit < 1325424551 31808 :kallisti!~eris@h72.45.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325424551 353685 :kallisti!~eris@h72.45.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Changing host < 1325424551 509954 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1325424557 688070 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARISE COMPUTER < 1325424560 47692 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I SUMMON THEW < 1325424562 661593 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so after playing some Skyrim < 1325424565 184555 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I've decided < 1325424591 361461 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that I'm not going to spend money on what is essentially a huge, monotonous, buggy, unbalanced game. < 1325424771 12151 :kallisti_!~eris@h72.45.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325424815 515270 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 , Skype: patashu0 . < 1325425614 506011 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm I think for the first time ever wikipedia's donation drive is behind its budget. < 1325425682 693772 :kallisti_!~eris@h72.45.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PART :#esoteric < 1325425689 927150 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :they need to come up with an actual fundraiser if they want to keep drawing millions from the general public < 1325425708 177151 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: what's the difference between an "actual fundraiser" and what they're doing. < 1325425715 434924 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I don't give them money, they'll give me more faces, and I love the faces < 1325425738 666431 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think their fundraider campaign is kind of poorly executed. < 1325425751 871804 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :fundraider! < 1325425755 820765 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol yes < 1325425761 691739 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not enough fun raiding < 1325425763 971848 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :needs more raids < 1325425779 649575 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they should have stuck to the "here's the bar showing how much money we need" < 1325425782 702316 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of the faces. < 1325425793 112040 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1325425794 875907 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :facesssssss < 1325425795 844355 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :faces are good < 1325425800 787202 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :faces are friend < 1325425801 110924 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it worked fine in the past, and gave people an indication that there is a need to donate. < 1325425815 749473 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :they could even have faces /and/ the progress bar. < 1325425820 550637 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :,,,,,,,,, < 1325425822 942977 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :progress bar made of faces < 1325425826 634542 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1325425840 822092 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :face made of bars < 1325425844 18711 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :give more money to get more faces < 1325425847 1294 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :now everyone will donate < 1325425863 874125 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. all the donate. < 1325425868 980421 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :all the faces do is attract people to click and read their shitty advertising spiel. < 1325425875 513447 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1325425885 40515 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :they attract people to look at faces < 1325425892 52669 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :to admire the faces < 1325425897 807553 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's all so facetious < 1325425984 162731 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. < 1325425990 851141 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: hi I got idea for game < 1325425993 732327 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :super game. < 1325425995 707936 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but complicated < 1325426005 380175 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you flip a face but it's really really big < 1325426006 509988 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I shouldn't plan so comlpicatedly < 1325426034 297464 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it's like RPG + RTS < 1325426052 834903 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ maybe dynamically generated storyline/world but I doubt I'll be good at that. < 1325426066 733960 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :definitely randomly generated world would be nice. < 1325426106 463153 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the idea started as a desire to have an RPG where careful consideration and planning are required < 1325426108 640682 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can go back in time and kill the royal family and everything is different < 1325426122 141892 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, with magic, for example, you can't just run around and throw fireballs everywhere. < 1325426152 975531 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can only throw them where they wont hurt anyone < 1325426181 619461 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're in a forest, the forest will catch on fire. also, good spells are slow and require no interruptions. Anything fast is either a) not very strong b) drains a lot of magical resources (I haven't decided what that is) < 1325426193 752945 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :forest fires mean more things dead < 1325426195 405889 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :perfect < 1325426197 511207 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1325426199 137516 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1325426204 568937 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :though if there is an enemy wizard < 1325426207 786617 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :he could conjure rain. < 1325426208 594311 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :dead < 1325426210 245638 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1325426213 540118 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :try megafire < 1325426218 892774 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(thumbs up) < 1325426227 567798 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :megarain though < 1325426245 712312 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :D: < 1325426277 702862 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also another idea is to have the game progress from a small scale to large scale while being interesting the entire time. < 1325426279 476444 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :do recommend nuclear blast < 1325426286 620014 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, to start with you'd be one person. the main hero character. < 1325426309 315563 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh sort of like battles in brutal legend < 1325426314 771682 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you'd develop a following, and eventually you would control a town, then a county, then a kingdom. < 1325426336 862590 :derdon!~derdon@p5DE8B60B.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325426337 186969 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I don't if I actually want to do that. < 1325426347 495767 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :you dont want to do that < 1325426349 634661 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think just having a small city under your control would be good enough. < 1325426359 479487 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1325426359 964007 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :you want a game company with resources to do it for you < 1325426367 544856 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I'd rather focus on a small group of awesome hero characters than armies and stuff < 1325426407 420124 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the way I see it working is you have military squads that you can train, but all of the epic questy stuff would be handled by your heros < 1325426414 148920 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah < 1325426415 699939 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's like < 1325426417 926909 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :a game I'll never make < 1325426421 178924 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that I've thought about a lot recently < 1325426431 599746 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like to be a game company < 1325426434 978303 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :like the entire game company < 1325426435 786136 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :at once < 1325426441 634363 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :like a hivemind < 1325426442 603524 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah man < 1325426445 306674 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :developing a game < 1325426480 528362 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :my dream existence is as a hivemind < 1325426488 466524 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :a hivemind of robots < 1325426490 747868 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or perhaps hiveminds < 1325426500 326221 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :my existence hive is a dream of minds. < 1325426507 992895 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this a good dream or a nightmare < 1325426546 174139 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :my dream existence is of mind hives < 1325426565 317761 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :my dream dream is of dream dreams < 1325426648 94586 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmmm cole slaw < 1325426660 922646 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the hell does cole mean < 1325426663 292647 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also slaw < 1325426677 337353 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coles law < 1325426683 468004 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :colesl aw < 1325426684 113530 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :cole is cabbage, slaw is salad < 1325426700 505054 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :The term "coleslaw" arose in the 18th century as an Anglicisation of the Dutch term "koolsla", a shortening of "koolsalade", which means "cabbage salad".[2] It is originally from Ireland and was made at the end of the month from leftover vegetables and cream. < 1325426704 480259 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1325426723 134250 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coleslaw is good except when it isn't < 1325426729 646961 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1325426738 241050 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"closeup of Kentucky Fried Chicken's coleslaw" WHYYYY < 1325426744 751588 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1325426758 476110 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :enlarged for texture < 1325426762 551404 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :they make the worst < 1325426764 881955 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :delicious coleslaw texture < 1325426765 37541 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY DOES WIKIPEDIA RUIN EVERY FOOD WITH PICTURES OF SHITTY VERSIONS OF THAT FOOD < 1325426790 604021 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the picture good at least < 1325426809 252429 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :artistically < 1325426845 900172 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"here's some shitty grits I got no < 1325426875 467656 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:KFC_coleslaw.JPG < 1325426886 160213 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmmm grits < 1325426888 758766 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ew < 1325426894 415592 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagine cabbage now imagine KFC sucks < 1325427025 611309 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only retouching they did was a crop < 1325427044 442453 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am glad to in all other respects witness the unadulterated glory of kfc coleslaw < 1325427056 204269 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :viesual respects i mean < 1325427063 63327 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :except for some of them < 1325427158 343432 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1325427496 817095 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brunswick_stew < 1325427502 267310 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love brunswick stew. < 1325427504 42142 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so goood. < 1325427592 293934 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :dont make me hungry when there is no food < 1325427652 404474 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_American_cuisine < 1325427662 361586 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fried_chicken < 1325427675 585901 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biscuits_and_gravy < 1325427707 337887 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gumbo < 1325427718 810166 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the american quisine picture is a burger, great < 1325427718 966439 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jambalaya < 1325427725 126677 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: yeah I found that funny < 1325427747 650180 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hushpuppy < 1325427773 652094 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION does not click on food pron < 1325427794 362268 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's informative it has words < 1325427800 326784 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't you want education < 1325427804 704715 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :food education < 1325427830 421727 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am hungry! < 1325427873 968649 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_and_dumplings < 1325427880 691838 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornbread < 1325427887 97613 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_butter < 1325427894 478781 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chow-chow < 1325427907 997941 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/23/Ni%C3%A8r_beurre_National_Trust_for_Jersey_2007_a.jpg yum yum < 1325427917 298445 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti is hating me :( < 1325427931 805179 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fried_green_tomatoes_(food) < 1325427940 258980 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Here's your sine wave: https://chart.googleapis.com/chart?cht=lc&chd=t:-1&chs=250x150&chfd=0,x,0,6.28,0.1,sin(x)*50%2b50 < 1325427949 471993 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sausage_gravy < 1325427951 606842 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :what am i seeing here monqy < 1325427968 688190 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd know if you clicked kallisti's links!! < 1325428014 452966 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I was having a drunken conversation with someone and they started talking about audio stuff in relation to films and they kind of knew what spectrograms were but I wanted to clarify by showing a pure sine tone and its corresponding spectrogram. < 1325428022 26185 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :or you could just tell me < 1325428026 829525 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: foods < 1325428032 492140 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Making black butter in Jersey - wikepid < 1325428040 448018 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1325428041 952779 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :first image on the appel buter page < 1325428043 405759 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: I'm not sure you can get Google's image chart API to make a spectrogram, sadly. < 1325428068 143180 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :it takes a metal-melting forge to make black butter it seems < 1325428084 121745 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's okay I could have just drawn a vertical line on a 2D chart somewhere :P < 1325428086 782539 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how else would you butter the apples < 1325428091 495516 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :those things are hard! < 1325428122 894503 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :we have "apple houses" here < 1325428126 321007 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :which just sell all apple < 1325428129 446716 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :stuff < 1325428143 791497 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :just tons of different kinds of apples, apple cider, apple butter, apple fritters, apple pie. < 1325428150 73334 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably other things made of apples that I didn't know existed < 1325428153 200050 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :apple chips < 1325428156 730435 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, yes. < 1325428198 338281 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :apple sauce < 1325428244 604546 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apple iBook. < 1325428249 966973 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1325428252 912457 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :bad < 1325428262 638490 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not very nutritioys < 1325428262 962198 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apple iRack < 1325428415 677484 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that a pun on Iraq .. < 1325428421 612200 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it is. < 1325428446 878471 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :apple macintosh, yum yum < 1325428586 853653 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a garlic-themed restaurant in Helsinki, they do some a bit strange garlicy things. (Like garlic beer and garlic ice-cream.) < 1325428628 544713 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :yecch < 1325428697 468789 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :chocochip waffles? < 1325428729 249587 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :garlic chocochip garlic waffles < 1325428740 432231 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :garlic garlic in a garlic sauce < 1325428760 978151 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: can you order a whole bulb of garlic. < 1325428768 571393 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION dips it in garlic butter < 1325428797 202202 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: It's not on the menu, but I'm pretty sure you could. < 1325428799 461105 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :maorp < 1325428811 600247 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also there's a viking-themed restaurant chain that sells tar ice-cream. < 1325428819 793337 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1325428830 816814 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not entirely unique, but top Google hits about "tar ice cream" seem to be about it. < 1325428840 394654 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :tar is not food < 1325428849 549786 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://susan-stepney.blogspot.com/2011/06/tar-ice-cream.html <-- see, #1 hit is some computational blogger blogging about it. < 1325428863 525096 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not too bad. < 1325428910 655456 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat ice cream tarpit? < 1325428915 311734 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it the smallest ice cream? < 1325428931 817766 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The ice cream with the least amount of instructions. < 1325428943 314649 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i just read that < 1325428950 160776 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :she seems to think it is nice < 1325428972 547798 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure that's what turing tarpit was originally coined to mean. < 1325429048 684895 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"There is a small but thriving community on the Internet of hobbyists who program in and design esoteric programming languages." -- haha Wikipedia < 1325429066 98663 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it have a citation < 1325429076 430800 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1325429079 152121 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont buy it < 1325429081 260392 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The esolang community is active sporadically, and topics of discussion range from debate as to whether a language is Turing-complete to how one would go about representing abstract and hard to visualise mathematical concepts in a programming environment. There is a mailing list, but it is nearly abandoned and most discussion happens on the wiki (see below) or on IRC." < 1325429112 298517 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :other topics include: apple butter and garlic-themed restaurants. < 1325429116 914073 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wikipedia............................. < 1325429126 204330 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no it gives < 1325429129 270290 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lolcoad as its < 1325429132 39843 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :firsst iexampel < 1325429133 631791 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no bad < 1325429155 638632 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :first example should be Malbolge < 1325429200 268839 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :('&%:9]!~}|z2Vxwv-,POqponl$Hjig%eB@@>}= < 1325429276 64058 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Their Befunge Hello World uses a nonstandard 3x2 print loop, but I suppose that's justifiable, because the standard 5x1 >:#,_ is not "2D" at all. < 1325429543 553358 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :As ... blah as Cyanide and Happiness is, I do like the time travel strips, I think < 1325429559 28496 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Once a year. Apparently since 2006 < 1325429601 945867 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :S "I like station v3" geo < 1325429680 231152 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was waiting for that to come up < 1325430053 9575 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I officially hate commentors on dilbert.com < 1325430079 22418 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So far, two people think Oxytocin is a misspelling. < 1325430151 188747 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://dilbert.com/strips/comic/2011-12-31/ < 1325430324 981172 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i officially hate dilbert < 1325430336 16400 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :and scott adams too < 1325431074 494806 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah yes. < 1325431082 56726 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's that time of year where I have to remember to update copyright lines. < 1325431151 477826 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not just write them so they dont have to be updated? < 1325431219 114502 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because then they wouldn't be legally correct ... < 1325431398 866533 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1325431419 941456 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :under which law? < 1325432324 506373 :cswords!~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325432359 863402 :cswords!~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net QUIT :Client Quit < 1325432691 822198 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: None I suppose, under Berne you don't need a copyright notice at all *shrugs* < 1325432744 402823 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently a copyright notice can defeat a defense of "innocent infringement" < 1325432773 104837 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need a VCS that can tell me when I need to update copyright notices 8-D < 1325432782 201614 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if there's a plugin for Mercurial to do that ... < 1325432822 826717 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could just not put the year into the copyright notice < 1325432838 32198 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some GNU files have such a careful correspondence between "years mentioned in the copyright notice" and "edits that touched the file in the VCS" that one might believe they use some kind of a tool. < 1325435010 211394 :Sgeo_!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325435097 155715 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1325435491 56799 :Sgeo_!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do I want to know -cafe's opinion of conduits? < 1325435505 119742 :Sgeo_!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or is the rest of cafe as stupid as that person in the thread? < 1325435687 915920 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1325435952 911056 :Slereah_!~butt@ANantes-259-1-234-37.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1325436020 258100 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325436022 749159 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1325436034 949057 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm mildy surprised that http://hackage.haskell.org/package/piet exists < 1325436074 975763 :Slereah_!~butt@ANantes-259-1-167-140.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1325436213 349704 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: There's a -- rather vaguely specified -- P programming language http://oshs.sourceforge.net/docs/oshs-osfil.ud-P.html in the equally vapoury OSHS, "The Operating System of The Holy Spirit". < 1325436215 355780 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pietiful < 1325436244 694948 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: A few hundreths of kilobytes, eh? < 1325436280 778795 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :IOW, a few dozen bytes. < 1325436307 964842 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's how holy it is. (In related news, I haven't yet found out what makes OSHS holy at all; all the stuff that's in there seems to be just about the technical side of it.) < 1325436335 972949 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:23:17: basically on a channel as experimental as #esoteric, a logbot shouldn't filter out information, not even malformed such < 1325436345 62309 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ask oerjan Pings? NAMES lists? < 1325436345 261357 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1325436371 490345 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:31:37: elliott: don't you do C++ sudoku for fun sometimes? <-- what is C++ sudoku? i assume it's nothing as boring as programming sudoku in C++ < 1325436371 685566 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:33:17: IIRC it's just "C++ as a time-wasting brain exercise". < 1325436384 698926 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: With an eye towards treating it as a functional language. Especially if you do it at compile-time. < 1325436393 114875 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:35:13: I failed at C++ Sudoku for the first time today :( < 1325436393 311684 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:35:13: it is not possible to create a boolean type such that "if (True)" works but < 1325436393 311865 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:35:13: "if (True && 9)" doesn't < 1325436393 311974 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I later figured this out, BTW. < 1325436396 848736 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell oerjan Re logs: See raw logs. I can't turn every line into something meaningful, but the raw logs never fail. < 1325436397 523986 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1325436436 99 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: He just said "I know about timed hit^W^Wraw logs" on the next line or so. < 1325436459 779904 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, not the bit about timed hits. In retrospect, putting quote marks around that was probably a mistake. < 1325436461 404969 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway. < 1325436509 575480 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You /could/ add unknown lines raw to the text logs (past parsing who sent them). < 1325436526 526728 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I /could/ < 1325436531 79646 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I /choose/ not to ^^ < 1325436563 254454 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:15:43: * elliott just assumes tswett decoded his CLEVER HIDDEN MESSAGE. <-- ejatdhCHM? that makes no sense man < 1325436563 483184 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:16:48: it's backwards for MHChdtaje. < 1325436563 483371 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:16:52: ah. < 1325436563 483477 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1325436598 524908 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: YunXttm? < 1325436609 614492 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess so? < 1325436789 918058 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1325436818 264083 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:00:53: I officially hate commentors on dilbert.com < 1325436824 318964 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: You could try not reading dilbert.com. < 1325436842 98417 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :'s better than XKCD. < 1325436862 102362 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least the author of xkcd isn't a scumbag :P < 1325436863 372870 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:18:02: It's that time of year where I have to remember to update copyright lines. < 1325436863 567391 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:19:11: why not just write them so they dont have to be updated? < 1325436863 567624 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:20:19: Because then they wouldn't be legally correct ... < 1325436875 854765 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Most people just have the year be when the thing was last updated... < 1325436891 233147 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but you have to remember to do that when you /update/ it. < 1325436910 533727 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, not really :P < 1325436913 131729 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm I wonder if I have arthritis, or some kind of joint problem. < 1325436915 588648 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could just not put a year. < 1325436924 345754 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:47:02: You could just not put the year into the copyright notice < 1325436924 540509 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that. < 1325436947 911086 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :16:43:33: Ngevd: There's a -- rather vaguely specified -- P programming language http://oshs.sourceforge.net/docs/oshs-osfil.ud-P.html in the equally vapoury OSHS, "The Operating System of The Holy Spirit". < 1325436951 308763 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :my fingers kind of ache a lot lately, and then sometimes there's a sharp pain and I can't move my wrist very well for about a second or two. < 1325436953 711832 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org TOPIC #esoteric :This channel Copyright © 2005 Gregor Richards | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1325436955 9778 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Wait, what *was* the context for this? < 1325436963 405681 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Sounds RSIish. < 1325436972 647657 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :from..... typing?> < 1325436979 150235 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I type a lot. and weirdly < 1325436987 174309 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: E was looking for single-letter-name programming languages a day or a few ago, and didn't find a P (just P'') at that time. < 1325436988 762230 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, one letter programming language names < 1325437005 795110 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, you probably want to get a doctor to look at that. < 1325437014 478044 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :a doctor? seriously? I'm shocked. < 1325437018 324023 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :doctors fix medical problems? < 1325437023 414175 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some do < 1325437028 595620 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Others just time travel < 1325437031 71372 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, that is at least the goal < 1325437034 652013 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought they just gave people drugs. < 1325437040 482555 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, if they are doctors in medicine < 1325437196 932756 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you guys have anything like that? < 1325437211 435226 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems like RSI would be common with programmers and whatnot < 1325437245 406035 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :thankfully I don't have it < 1325437270 154541 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, maybe I should learn how to type like a normal person < 1325437290 536759 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what with 3 fingers on each hand? XD < 1325437297 364376 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1325437307 699431 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I don't think that many people use all five fingers on each hand to type) < 1325437313 926844 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I let my middle finger do too much I think. < 1325437321 455933 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :they kind of dance around the keyboard :P < 1325437331 763108 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a poor explanation though < 1325437373 16725 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't slept for over 24 hours. Going to sleep now. Hopefully I will kind of sync up with the time zone I live in that way. < 1325437381 630454 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :cya tomorrow < 1325437384 76402 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that never works for me < 1325437385 492201 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but good night < 1325437412 363766 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: that doesn't work, you already fucked up < 1325437429 447394 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hi do you ever get RSI you type a lot. < 1325437449 635060 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't "ever get" RSI, you just "get" RSI < 1325437455 553005 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you considered that it might be carpal tunnel, hth < 1325437466 524690 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously it's going to be so hard to type differently if that's what the problem is. < 1325437489 984609 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :install xwrits or sth < 1325437501 854333 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Patients with CTS experience numbness, tingling, or burning sensations in the thumb and fingers, in particular the index, middle fingers, and radial half of the ring fingers, which are innervated by the median nerve. Less-specific symptoms may include pain in the wrists or hands and loss of grip strength" < 1325437508 622941 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...oh. no I hadn't considered that. but that sounds pretty accurate. < 1325437513 34644 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fun. < 1325437530 238818 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you think you have anything like that (a) stop typing and (b) go and see a doctor < 1325437548 578768 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or it'll get bad enough that you won't be able to type. < 1325437555 395425 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but typing is fun. < 1325437557 134744 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :type type type < 1325437625 683432 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Type if your nose < 1325437631 93777 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nasal tunnel syndrome < 1325437637 917612 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/if/with/ < 1325437645 478950 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I typo phonetically... < 1325437645 844627 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1325437748 989640 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phalen%27s_maneuver this does not cause any symptoms. < 1325437786 560021 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no -- 160 over 7 :/ < 1325437808 287332 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Carpal_Tunnel_Syndrome,_Operation.jpg < 1325437814 96081 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this looks fun. < 1325438501 799961 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :urgh < 1325438539 664045 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: pls don't link things like that without some kind of rudimentary warning, i'm afraid of my hands now :p < 1325438555 396297 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh by the way if you don't like looking at meaty human insides then don't click that link. < 1325438563 329195 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :excellent < 1325438564 630491 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that it isn't totally obvious from the filename. < 1325438573 34666 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_> < 1325438574 705735 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :just sayin' < 1325438588 103438 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you guys actually read links before you click them? < 1325438672 397189 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't know how they fixed carpal tunnel :'( < 1325438712 621110 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but using sharp things to literally split the problem in half, of course. :P < 1325438716 282145 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :divide and conquer algorithm. < 1325438721 677051 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/buy/by/ < 1325438772 674921 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how surgery is just really precise beneficial maiming. < 1325438797 946348 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: Goodbye < 1325438970 785123 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thinks he would enjoy learning how to do surgery but is way too clumsy and shakey to ever be good at it. < 1325438993 513781 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's kind of one of those things where you can't fuck up without massive legal consequences. < 1325439040 618472 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION comes into work hungover. accidentally leaves bonesaw in someone's abdomen. < 1325439132 468347 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm looking for a small language to play < 1325439154 793370 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was I even doing with a bonesaw for a surgery involving the abdomen? no idea. < 1325439179 7018 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :Potion by _why was promising but then I found out that it's unusable < 1325439195 238788 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pail < 1325439213 442620 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :network headache. < 1325439230 789465 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pail < 1325439240 382882 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like MMO coding (also it isn't hosted anymore, but maybe you can change that!) < 1325439251 553761 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1325439292 142469 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott? < 1325439338 66004 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: http://catseye.tc/projects/pail/ < 1325439383 36985 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: flogscript < 1325439399 479340 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm in a zzo mood) < 1325439432 794692 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: if you learn flogscript you'll immediately become a leet golfer < 1325439444 949716 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or well, I think that's how it works. < 1325439652 206039 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :no docs < 1325439839 462433 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :writen in php < 1325439841 130648 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :yuck < 1325439913 445285 :Sgeo_!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why would you want docs to be written in PHP? < 1325440815 288945 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ha, my feature request got promoted from feature request. < 1325441278 386678 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or should that be "demoted". < 1325441673 471475 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1325441740 587812 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages < 1325441741 194703 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott asked 1h 29m 56s ago: Pings? NAMES lists? < 1325441741 379723 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor said 1h 29m 3s ago: Re logs: See raw logs. I can't turn every line into something meaningful, but the raw logs never fail. < 1325441841 487406 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ok maybe not pings. NAMES lists could be useful. < 1325441891 402646 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Gregor: You /could/ add unknown lines raw to the text logs (past parsing who sent them). elliott: I /could/ I /choose/ not to ^^ < 1325441938 134073 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: it's also somewhat about not knowing that the information _exists_ in the raw logs. < 1325441974 501120 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sigh. < 1325441980 911828 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: If you're trying to make me want to dust off ch2, it's working :P < 1325441987 500309 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay :D < 1325442031 760432 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depends whether Gregor will allow Haskell onto his bless-ed servers tho >:) < 1325442096 218570 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : WHY DOES WIKIPEDIA RUIN EVERY FOOD WITH PICTURES OF SHITTY VERSIONS OF THAT FOOD <-- clearly people geeky enough to edit wikipedia only eat at fast food restaurants. < 1325442156 850487 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION unprejudiced < 1325442187 48157 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- oerjan "microwave lutefisk" oerjan < 1325442233 889503 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: How do you know whether a QUIT results in a user leaving the channel in your log-baker? You don't do regular NAMES queries, so it should require unbounded lookback in the logs to determine that... < 1325442261 80527 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i only mentioned those two terms together in order to point out you _cannot_ microwave lutefisk. sheesh. < 1325442284 102310 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes, and that's why you didn't have any :P < 1325442297 894834 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :check. < 1325442327 735154 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i did, however, have microwave pinnekjøtt. < 1325442483 324603 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gumbo <-- the creole restaurant i knew about closed years ago :( < 1325442728 266335 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src length < 1325442728 484102 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source not found. :( < 1325442732 998795 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fucking piece of < 1325442740 506794 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1325442745 912157 :Sgeo_!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@source length < 1325442746 303706 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :length not available < 1325442756 901513 :Sgeo_!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the difference between src and source? < 1325442758 713164 :Sgeo_!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src maybe < 1325442759 104405 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe n _ Nothing = n < 1325442759 291493 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe _ f (Just x) = f x < 1325442760 80152 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: *BZZT* WRONG < 1325442760 907701 :Sgeo_!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@source maybe < 1325442761 302212 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe not available < 1325442774 945557 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@source Prelude < 1325442775 754457 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://darcs.haskell.org/packages/base/Prelude.hs < 1325442783 494067 :Sgeo_!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH < 1325442789 658246 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's for modules. i also suspect it's very outdated. < 1325442811 926393 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, ghc no longer uses darcs < 1325442820 386395 :Sgeo_!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> maybe undefined id (Just 5) < 1325442821 342670 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 5 < 1325442833 550343 :Sgeo_!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was expecting it to be overly strict < 1325442834 522876 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that's irrelevant, darcs.haskell.org hosts git repos < 1325442841 956793 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: okay < 1325442855 758391 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: it could not be overly strict without explicitly using seq, parametricity... < 1325442881 633771 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://darcs.haskell.org/packages/base/ seems to be a checkout of http://darcs.haskell.org/packages/base.git/ < 1325442899 370269 :Sgeo_!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess Haskell doesn't always go left to right in pattern matching? < 1325442953 903447 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: sure it does. < 1325442957 341917 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1325442974 271200 :Sgeo_!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then why doesn't it die on pattern matching ... oh, I think I get it < 1325442978 895515 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :id a = 42 < 1325442987 64244 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*foo < 1325442987 240985 :Sgeo_!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because to pattern match there, it doesn't need to evaluate it < 1325442990 387557 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OMG id pattern-matches on its first argument, foo _|_ must = _|_ < 1325443007 259208 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pattern-matching doesn't cause any kind of reduction itself, only discrimination < 1325443009 873203 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. constructors < 1325443018 44075 :Sgeo_!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, thanks < 1325443022 93557 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: in maybe n _ Nothing = n, n is an irrefutable pattern and thus not strict. only the last argument is actually evaluated to check the constructor. < 1325443043 733380 :Sgeo_!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But there are functions in Haskell that are overly strict, and this makes me sad. < 1325443090 166007 :Sgeo_!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I get it, thanks < 1325443092 770396 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: it annoys me slightly that show for Chars is overly strict < 1325443115 400261 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix (concatMap show) < 1325443118 5346 :Sgeo_!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :show (undefined::Char) < 1325443118 367820 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: i take it you read conal's blog or something < 1325443119 277501 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval-core: Time limit exceeded < 1325443120 576241 :Sgeo_!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> show (undefined::Char) < 1325443121 483235 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "*Exception: Prelude.undefined < 1325443137 698045 :Sgeo_!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I've read the occasional post < 1325443151 23465 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1325443153 204949 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix (concatMap show) < 1325443157 190358 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval-core: Time limit exceeded < 1325443170 727466 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :...what gave the "? < 1325443184 824756 :Sgeo_!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix show < 1325443185 733697 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "\"\\\"\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\\\... < 1325443204 439109 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: Oh, I assumed you were referring to < 1325443207 202994 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://conal.net/blog/posts/functional-concurrency-with-unambiguous-choice < 1325443207 568844 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://conal.net/blog/posts/merging-partial-values < 1325443215 370549 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://conal.net/blog/posts/lazier-function-definitions-by-merging-partial-values < 1325443217 560887 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://conal.net/blog/posts/lazier-functional-programming-part-1 < 1325443225 221509 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://conal.net/blog/posts/lazier-functional-programming-part-2 < 1325443229 414898 :Sgeo_!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I had unamb-style stuff in mind, yeah < 1325443233 965446 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> show (undefined::Char) < 1325443234 877513 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "*Exception: Prelude.undefined < 1325443239 864456 :Sgeo_!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I think I only read some of those < 1325443240 227655 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait of course < 1325443252 385944 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it's all that big a deal in practice. < 1325443261 556812 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the " is not for the explicit show, but for the implicit one lambdabot uses on the resulting String < 1325443267 596039 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not the biggest fan of unamb, and the left-to-right behaviour is at least predictable. < 1325443280 83506 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, it really needs to be in the language; HasLub sucks. < 1325443291 409570 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i could have told you that < 1325443352 94302 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The unsafePerformIO is actually safe in this situation because amb is deterministic when the precondition of unamb satisfied." < 1325443362 384882 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Similarly, unsafePerformIO is safe because unsafePerformIO is deterministic when the precondition of unsafePerformIO is satisfied. < 1325443618 712232 :oerjan_!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1325443673 496817 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1325443679 926767 :oerjan_!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no NICK :oerjan < 1325443709 671436 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:43 oerjan> and the mueval-core timeout prevents any partial result from being printed at all. or... < 1325443712 892390 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:43 oerjan> > "test" ++ fix id < 1325443718 545389 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> "test" ++ fix id < 1325443722 413092 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval-core: Time limit exceeded < 1325443848 931386 :Sgeo_!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF < 1325443853 396036 :Sgeo_!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fix isn't in Prelude? < 1325443859 314675 :Sgeo_!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle fix < 1325443859 914360 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Monad.Fix module Control.Monad.Fix < 1325443860 108495 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Fixed module Data.Fixed < 1325443860 108676 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Function fix :: (a -> a) -> a < 1325443860 318598 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed not < 1325443909 474487 :xandy!~xandy@unaffiliated/xandy QUIT :*.net *.split < 1325443910 47382 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia QUIT :*.net *.split < 1325443959 395157 :xandy!~xandy@unaffiliated/xandy JOIN :#esoteric < 1325443959 590215 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia JOIN :#esoteric < 1325444013 32450 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1325444084 699376 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome xandy < 1325444087 965113 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :xandy: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page < 1325444179 384176 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome everyone < 1325444183 213044 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :everyone: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page < 1325444205 821440 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :HackEgo: Why thank you. < 1325444258 911947 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome FireFly < 1325444259 948771 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1325444261 173000 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome fizzie < 1325444262 416787 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page < 1325444263 421192 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`swat FireFly < 1325444264 824700 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page < 1325444266 829448 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: swat: not found < 1325444401 451714 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan holds the swatopoly. < 1325444737 678401 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1325444996 606924 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, there's no way i'm getting 200 rep today < 1325445070 658450 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :they have finally caught on to you being a disreputable scoundrel < 1325445137 500934 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite. wait, didn't you get mad at me for calling someone a scoundrel once? < 1325445211 843410 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i cannot possibly have done such a thing *erases evidence* < 1325445269 526799 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: It would be quite a scoundrely thing to do. < 1325445270 254290 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i did, it would have been under circumstances where it might conceivable have been interpreted seriously. < 1325445278 358107 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ly < 1325445280 535920 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325445305 894910 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1325445309 11333 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric : now who are you, scoundrel. <-- i'm going to assume you secretly know Tenacity from before, as otherwise i think this channel is _really_ going downhill < 1325445322 814195 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(2009-09-07.) < 1325445322 994811 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hm if contravariant functors are (b -> a) -> f a -> f b, are normal functors covariant < 1325445338 994008 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah a newbie. yes, it's a rather bad first channel impression. < 1325445339 538722 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh right i remember, you had no idea that "scoundrel" was old-timey-sounding :P < 1325445383 534698 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes and maybe. < 1325445402 804466 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i sure was hyper that day < 1325445405 373819 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION stops logreading < 1325445424 36080 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ok, so is there a name for class Cocontrafunctor f where wtfmap :: (a -> b) -> (b -> a) -> f a -> f b < 1325445429 479958 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :where you have both covariant _and_ contravariant parts < 1325445430 973168 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. < 1325445446 49234 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :data F a b = F (b -> a) (a, b) < 1325445450 445454 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i cannot fathom to whom scoundrel would be old-timey-sounding < 1325445454 513048 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cocoafunctor, the sweetest of functions. < 1325445469 731139 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Allegedly it "evokes images of top hats and curled moustaches." < 1325445476 62773 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What doesn't. < 1325445481 968066 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(You realise oerjan was punning?) < 1325445514 163122 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1325445546 496485 :Sgeo_!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That wtfmap looks useless < 1325445552 936916 :Sgeo_!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, what's the b -> a for? < 1325445558 32770 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: < 1325445558 396266 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : where you have both covariant _and_ contravariant parts < 1325445558 572317 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : e.g. < 1325445558 572497 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : data F a b = F (b -> a) (a, b) < 1325445561 876848 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hth hand < 1325445577 337713 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't give a Functor or Contrafunctor instance for F, but you can give it a Cocontrafunctor instance < 1325445591 698194 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ah that bifunctor question? i'm sure there's any term other than "bifunctor covariant in the first and contravariant in the second parameter" < 1325445592 787978 :Sgeo_!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION knows nothing about Contrafunctor < 1325445596 986150 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed I believe _every_ haskell ADT of the right kind has a Cocontrafunctor instance < 1325445606 768972 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: contramap :: (b -> a) -> fa -> f b < 1325445623 496924 :Sgeo_!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION blinks < 1325445624 828689 :Sgeo_!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, ok < 1325445635 547312 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh hm wait that wasn't what you were asking < 1325445637 402272 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: e.g. (a -> Bool) has a Contrafunctor instance < 1325445638 313312 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what question? I thought bifunctors were of kind (* -> * -> *) < 1325445644 199926 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/bifunctors/0.1.2/doc/html/Data-Bifunctor.html < 1325445666 913772 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325445667 458508 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i just assumed you were asking about a question i'd recently seen in -cafe or somewhere < 1325445681 828842 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1325445707 81546 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... that wtfmap has a flaw < 1325445711 921264 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather < 1325445718 950423 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what the law has to be to stop you writing < 1325445740 695976 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtfmap f g (a,b) = (a, f (g (f b))) < 1325445751 713232 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is ofc not allowed, you should only apply f and g to the right positions, once < 1325445886 769130 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : indeed I believe _every_ haskell ADT of the right kind has a Cocontrafunctor instance <-- i think that's the way free theorems based on parametricity usually look, no? < 1325445919 99517 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: er what way < 1325445922 26491 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, i'm dumb :( < 1325445946 209837 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@free f :: (a -> b, a, b) < 1325445946 574619 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(forall p q. h . p = q . g => k p = q) => $map_Triple k g h f = f < 1325445958 835921 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1325446007 368694 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's ugly < 1325446023 220958 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@free f :: (a -> b, a) < 1325446023 766321 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(forall p q. h . p = q . g => k p = q) => $map_Pair k g f = f < 1325446038 378281 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok maybe not < 1325446049 960809 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@free f :: a -> b < 1325446050 325793 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :h . f = f . g < 1325446052 558737 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :no language < 1325446126 414273 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@free f :: [a] -> a < 1325446126 961472 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :g . f = f . $map g < 1325446169 408577 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION isn't quite sure what he meant < 1325446220 118489 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION too :P < 1325446248 782997 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are the Functor laws again? including the ones that are impossible to violate in Haskell < 1325446262 407691 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hmm, it's just fmap id = id isn't it, and that's a free theorem < 1325446306 172728 :Sgeo_!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely with unsafeCoerce and unsafePerformIO, nothing is impossible to violate? < 1325446320 96396 :Sgeo_!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Well, some things may be impossible to violate) < 1325446347 418930 :Sgeo_!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Like the whatchamacallit that says f _|_ = non-bottom and f non-bottom = _|_ is impossible < 1325446372 120585 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monotonicity of information, or whatever < 1325446384 988462 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's actually stronger than that < 1325446394 920316 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :f _|_ [= f x for all x < 1325446399 318508 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :where [= is a symbol i can't type < 1325446405 141308 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :|_|| but sideways < 1325446422 935544 :Sgeo_!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lessthanorequalto? < 1325446423 880945 :Sgeo_!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :<= < 1325446436 170799 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :...no. < 1325446448 51247 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you think |_|| turned on its side looks like < with _ below it, you're blind < 1325446460 46035 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's less-than-or-equally-defined-as < 1325446505 837457 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Commodore logo?! (Yeah, yeah, that's even further away; but [= is not much farther than the common C=.) < 1325446653 161005 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :=c < 1325446686 281558 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: fmap id = id and fmap (f . g) = fmap f . fmap g < 1325446727 429638 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not _entirely_ a free theorem btw, you could do fmap' f = fmap (f $!) < 1325446732 221413 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait hm < 1325446738 468860 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, I think I've just understood the . thingy < 1325446749 351241 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't do anything to id < 1325446813 800646 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : (Like the whatchamacallit that says f _|_ = non-bottom and f non-bottom = _|_ is impossible <-- well, with unsafePerformIO and catch, you can cheat for some bottoms < 1325446837 413350 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hmm... so wtfmap id id = id, wtfmap (f . g) (h . i) = wtfmap f h . wtfmap g i < 1325446839 632600 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@free (a, a -> Int) < 1325446840 154827 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pattern match failure in do expression at Plugin/Free/FreeTheorem.hs:54:20-34 < 1325446844 808972 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh < 1325446844 990889 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that second one might ban wtfmap f g (a,b) = (a, f (g (f b))), dunno < 1325446850 488081 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@free f :: (a, a -> Int) < 1325446851 34297 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(forall k. h (k . g) = k) => $map_Pair g h f = f < 1325446917 163175 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finally they fixed it I can remove tags from the git < 1325446998 152763 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i suspect you want some swapping in the latter equation < 1325447036 173312 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtfmap (f . g) (h . i) = wtfmap f i . wtfmap g h < 1325447042 52495 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, right < 1325447069 867745 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1325447076 392251 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and of course only if the right side types < 1325447087 721911 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :duh :P < 1325447181 571710 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it _does_ look like a categorical bifunctor map on the incoming end. there's probably some name for it. < 1325447268 857068 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, if it was wtfmap :: (a -> b) -> (a' -> b') -> bf a b' -> bf b a' it would obviously be one < 1325447334 296542 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what is the categorical term for a bifunctor with its output parameters smushed together :P < 1325447358 729190 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm... < 1325447394 820921 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: for any adt you could probably separate the covariant and contravariant parts into two different parameters and get a genuine bifunctor that way < 1325447399 573743 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i find that a fairly odd way of thinking about it, even if the types do match up :P < 1325447400 664423 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1325447404 604949 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so turn < 1325447419 744784 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :data F a = F (a -> Bool) a < 1325447420 334853 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :into < 1325447423 827366 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :data F a b = F (a -> Bool) b < 1325447424 9325 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1325447440 793759 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(incidentally strict fields can mess up the exact functor laws, i found the other day) < 1325447462 737440 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yeah < 1325447547 401505 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hm I suppose you could do < 1325447564 943876 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :class Cocontra f where type Split f :: * -> * -> *; to :: f a -> Split f a a; fro :: Split f a a -> f a < 1325447565 852751 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something < 1325447581 981522 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1325447602 418403 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the Functor laws are simply that it is an endofunctor from objects (x) to objects (f x) isn't it? While Arrow laws for arr are that it is a functor from (->) category to another category with the same objects isn't it? < 1325447662 175510 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is why I think it should be generalized to any input category and separate arr from the other things in Arrow < 1325447803 520397 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: How do strict fields mess up the exact functor laws? < 1325447895 174443 :DCliche!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325447984 26002 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: say if you have data T a = T1 !a | T2 , then you cannot get fmap (const ()) . fmap undefined = fmap (const ()) because fmap undefined will wipe out the constructor < 1325448082 197810 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1325448084 191609 :DCliche!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net NICK :Klisz < 1325448093 894846 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then, you are having fmap undefined anyways so it doesn't completely matter depending on opinion of such thing; the laws only have to work when defined, I think. < 1325448119 289053 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: for many types such as [] and Maybe, the laws work always < 1325448143 516345 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1325448169 420121 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But still, that is simply that you use strict stuff, can cause lazy stuff to stop working < 1325448175 16696 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is expected. < 1325448403 693486 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Feh, OS X's X11's fonts seem to have become screwy. < 1325448705 851869 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :150 over less than 4... yeah, not happening today. < 1325448760 634186 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hahahah a couple screaming, cursing and crying at each other in an airport. < 1325448772 558760 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hil...arious? < 1325448778 932344 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm glad I so enjoy the suffering of others 8-D < 1325449205 934433 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :no language for me < 1325449234 363103 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: Itflabtijtslwi, hth < 1325449268 317234 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION le caqulesse evilment < 1325450155 490665 :Sgeo_!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1325450167 394812 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325451307 254368 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's Alan Turing year < 1325451322 612964 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's create as many imaginitively Turing-Complete esolangs as we can! < 1325451421 527500 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't that what we always do? < 1325451433 374324 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's make even more! < 1325451524 367190 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :have we had an imaginatively TC esolang for a while? < 1325451537 457229 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly Brook? < 1325451542 452963 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty much every TC lang is TC for one of a few simple reasons < 1325451547 551141 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not been proven TC yet < 1325451550 526046 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, Geom? < 1325451557 614634 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, remind me of how http://esolangs.org/wiki/Brook works again? < 1325451659 194780 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a simple queue based linear-bounded automaton except for the c and C commands < 1325451682 360314 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :c pushes a char into the next stream, C pushes a number < 1325451704 808853 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :As soon as a stream has enough characters to be executed unambiguously, it is < 1325451724 780106 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the original keeps executing? or stops? < 1325451740 332373 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The original pauses until the one below it can't keep on going < 1325451748 245154 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, OK < 1325451765 356280 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's a bit like Muriel, but more awkward < 1325451769 210092 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's got no explicit conditional or infinite loops < 1325451781 287890 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1325451788 355688 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or is implicit the word I want? < 1325451842 155709 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Point is, it's tricky to make it loop forever or on a condition < 1325451861 498192 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, I see < 1325451882 443795 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the problem is, that it has loops, but it's not obvious that it has conditionals < 1325451928 3422 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Conditionals are comparatively easy < 1325451934 826350 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's infinites that aren't < 1325451970 779318 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I say "easy" < 1325452005 441579 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's impossible to give any information to a higher stream < 1325452024 310868 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you give the user instructions to input any output < 1325452028 675503 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is cheating < 1325452089 977378 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :To do a conditional, you just do C, followed by instructions to write the rest of the program < 1325452106 843279 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :As 0(blah) doesn't run blah, but 1(blah) does < 1325452187 35786 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The article really needs a complete rewrite < 1325452233 135866 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Esolangs?? What is this witchcraft? < 1325452255 147014 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had a really weird dream last night involving witchcraft < 1325452258 198376 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And US politics < 1325452264 898924 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote dream < 1325452266 874698 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: well, the idea is you don't go to higher streams at all, surely? < 1325452268 272869 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :190) catseye: Please wake up. Not recorded for this timezone. The big spider is not your dream \ 285) back to legal tender, that expression really makes me daydream. Like, there'd be black-market tender. Out-of-town hug shops where people exchange tenderness you've NEVER SEEN BEFORE. \ 297) Gregor, yeah, but Purdue has poultry science facilities beyond the dreams of avarice. < 1325452269 563081 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just do it Muriel-style < 1325452278 305036 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, yes < 1325452285 250368 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote singularitarians < 1325452287 634473 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :786) I had a dream last night where I got hit by a van but the van had a brain uploader in it and I was uploaded and I angsted because I was stuck spending eternity with singularitarians? < 1325452296 891027 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote malaria < 1325452300 106015 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :497) itidus20: i saw a dancing cgi skeleton named malaria. i danced and played with him. < 1325452316 691184 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote balloon < 1325452319 811755 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1325452334 157503 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quite < 1325452337 170045 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: quite: not found < 1325452341 957718 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1325452345 287473 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :412) The eigenratio of reality has to be enormous, though. < 1325452352 830944 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? Taneb < 1325452356 30672 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb is not actually Ngevd, no matter what you may have heard. < 1325452361 469129 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? Ngevd < 1325452365 417398 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :B./mf\j.R.X-8.t.k`fc.:{bR;OF.b:n2bUa!c. < 1325452385 241189 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That garble is so reassuring < 1325452423 352888 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Weren't you there when that was defined? < 1325452428 113990 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1325452428 512356 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls < 1325452432 283348 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mineso \ bin \ canary \ karma \ lib \ main \ min.sh \ paste \ quotes \ share \ typetest.hs \ wisdom < 1325452438 919068 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls -l wisdom < 1325452442 134 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ls: invalid option -- ' ' \ Try `ls --help' for more information. < 1325452451 667757 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-153-142.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325452458 88588 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION frowns < 1325452496 422020 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? nooga < 1325452502 236996 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls wisdom < 1325452505 156420 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​? \ ais523 \ augur \ banach-tarski \ c \ cakeprophet \ category \ coppro \ egobot \ elliott \ esoteric \ everyone \ finland \ finns \ fizzie \ flower \ friendship \ functor \ fungot \ glogbot \ gregor \ hackego \ haskell \ ievan \ intercal \ itidus20 \ itidus21 \ kallisti \ lifthrasiir \ mad \ misspellings of croissant \ monad \ monads \ monoid \ monqy \ ngevd \ nooga \ oerjan \ oklopol \ phantom___hoover \ phantom__hoover < 1325452515 264402 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1325452530 27296 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no phantom hoover with one underscore? < 1325452536 849675 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? phantom_hoover < 1325452539 639663 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover is a true Scotsman and hatheist. < 1325452550 366801 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga hate OS X. NOOGA SMASH. < 1325452555 779006 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, clearly it just ended after a while < 1325452583 987403 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run ls wisdom | paste /dev/stdin < 1325452587 57248 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.24186 < 1325452590 330299 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I know, I have no idea what I'm doing.) < 1325452595 802657 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? haskell < 1325452599 127844 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell is preferred by 9 out of 10 esoteric programmers. Ask your GP today! http://learnyouahaskell.com/ < 1325452604 805360 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? oklopol < 1325452608 632810 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol "so i hear these blogs are getting popular, people like writing about their lives and shit. on this thing called the internet which is like a neural network only really stupid." < 1325452608 807750 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's inaccurate. < 1325452620 856462 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? friendship < 1325452623 864158 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :friendship wisdom < 1325452624 446015 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait, do they call them GPs in the states? < 1325452631 48366 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? u < 1325452633 826754 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :u monad? < 1325452637 911318 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? monad < 1325452640 557370 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? monad < 1325452640 915605 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Monads are just monoids in the category of endofunctors. < 1325452644 77606 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Monads are just monoids in the category of endofunctors. < 1325452645 868255 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? monoid < 1325452648 930686 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Monoids are just categories with a single object. < 1325452656 446467 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1325452657 491285 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? misspellings of croissant < 1325452660 307338 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :misspellings of crosant? ¯\(°_o)/¯ < 1325452678 446270 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run cat wisdom/mis* < 1325452681 504790 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :misspellings of crosant? ¯\(°_o)/¯ < 1325452699 515525 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? quine < 1325452702 654331 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​`? quine < 1325452712 451009 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? zzo38 < 1325452715 179913 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38 is not actually the next version of fungot, much as it may seem. < 1325452729 702750 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? banach-tarski < 1325452733 127822 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​"Banach-Tarski" is an anagram of "Banach-Tarski Banach-Tarski". < 1325452737 555463 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1325452740 444363 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? php < 1325452743 505398 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :PHP is preferred by 9 out of 10 idiots. Ask your GP today! [Website redacted] < 1325452754 465978 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? wiki < 1325452757 341573 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :The wiki is at http://esolangs.org/wiki < 1325452764 905305 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? you < 1325452767 995432 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :you a haskell < 1325452772 719060 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? HackEgo < 1325452773 963889 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn PHP is preferred by 9 out of 10 idiots, and past elliott. Ask your GP today! [Website redacted] < 1325452775 448556 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :HackEgo, also known as HackBot, is a bot that runs arbitrary commands on Unix. See `help for info on using it. You should totally try to hax0r it! Make sure you imagine it's running as root with no sandboxing. < 1325452820 241322 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I knew that. < 1325452826 354712 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat wisdom/* | paste /dev/stdin < 1325452829 215411 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat: wisdom/* | paste /dev/stdin: No such file or directory < 1325452834 652594 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run cat wisdom/* | paste /dev/stdin < 1325452840 574802 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.31214 \ /hackenv/bin/paste: line 14: 282 File size limit exceededcat "$PASTE" > $HACKENV/paste/paste."$PASTENUM" < 1325452866 813934 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, of course, ngevd. < 1325452907 436433 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have I caused bad things < 1325452919 408455 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? Ngevd < 1325452922 479811 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Y.su).R.$f1&3W....!d[Q.$Q.$zKMP5'Ϫ#.e.3B>u.JS׽βMAlʰ&Hpaj0..Dz < 1325452953 452524 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.11204 <- head -n 1 wisdom/* < 1325453021 312354 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh < 1325453025 562043 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is stuff crashing on me? < 1325453027 380805 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1325453037 691861 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1325453150 741228 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, the paste failed because your wisdom entry is linked to /dev/null, and cat was trying to print all of it into paste, which was upset about it. < 1325453168 645647 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blame Sgeo < 1325453174 92136 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? Sgeo < 1325453177 366655 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo invented Metaplace sex. < 1325453207 192340 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :uuuh < 1325453232 605273 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Ngevd, the paste failed because your wisdom entry is linked to /dev/null, and cat was trying to print all of it into paste, which was upset about it. < 1325453234 423992 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: *urandom < 1325453242 492533 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Argh, yes. < 1325453258 607456 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325453286 380080 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How hard would it be to make something like HackEgo, but DOS-based? < 1325453363 167624 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :reasonably hard, I think < 1325453377 915418 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :DOS is not all that good in terms of security features < 1325453503 76873 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :easy < 1325453505 63936 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just run it in a VM < 1325453544 305730 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are DOS VMs that run on DOS? < 1325453612 656416 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :do they have to run on DOS? < 1325453624 910984 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wouldn't be DOS-based if they didn't < 1325453627 83468 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes, I suspect so < 1325453644 972894 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how do you know HackEgo doesn't run on Windows? < 1325453673 177560 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't for certain, although it seems unlikely; but I wouldn't call it purely UNIX-based if it did < 1325453691 942876 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you inserted a word "purely" not in Ngevd's statement < 1325453717 717045 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I was disambiguating what I said; I interpreted Ngevd's statement with that possible meaning < 1325453827 292742 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair enough < 1325453828 869863 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt he meant that < 1325453874 942509 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think elliott is thinking what I'm thinking < 1325453888 226073 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And now I've got the theme to Bananas in Pyjamas stuck in my head < 1325453915 35172 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure Ngevd, but where are you going to find seven goats and a hippopotamus at this time of night? < 1325453955 437226 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hexham < 1325453969 375403 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :how convenient. < 1325453973 84896 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, argh, what's that a reference to. < 1325453984 12170 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pinky and the Brain < 1325454014 56008 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :a very loose reference < 1325454057 590667 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bananas, in Pyjamas, are coming down the stairs < 1325454066 805067 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bananas, in Pyjamas, are coming down in pairs < 1325454077 632975 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bananas, in Pyjamas, are chasing teddy bears < 1325454092 39785 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because on Tuesdays the try to cath them unawares < 1325454098 681093 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/the/they/ < 1325454125 729158 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :But "cath" still? < 1325454139 73776 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/cath/catch/ < 1325454140 623887 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a medical procedure < 1325454168 697433 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think, in retrospect, it is obvious why I am so weird < 1325454196 87302 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it's the bananas. < 1325454260 893593 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: You're not that weird. < 1325454280 771419 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I've heard stories about you < 1325454283 363638 :DCliche!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325454474 597449 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1325454478 104046 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: gah, I've heard that too < 1325454482 219942 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it a nursery rhyme? < 1325454489 635961 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sort-of sticks in the head because it's so stupid < 1325454492 11820 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the theme to a children's TV show < 1325454505 155703 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bananas in Pyjamas < 1325454510 321368 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used to love it when I was little < 1325454954 524283 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325455181 567629 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you think that LOOSE is a good name for a military grade RTOS? < 1325455204 369984 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No < 1325455325 160386 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1325455340 797010 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it looks too much like LOSE < 1325456012 542520 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :LooseThos, on the other hand... < 1325456323 952256 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lossy thossle < 1325456656 278350 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I made a TeX program for making binary specials in DVI files < 1325456702 646844 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/EVHW < 1325456924 823928 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1325456983 117075 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1325456999 693178 :cswords!~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325457008 760988 :cswords!~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1325457248 463196 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325457266 743976 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, kallisti Phantom_Hoover update < 1325457277 941589 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Ngevd < 1325457323 829598 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION mentally notes to add Ngevd to the update list. < 1325457379 802028 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could we define a hackego thing so we can just do `mspa and it will say "[names] update" < 1325457415 883386 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1325457444 483783 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott hates automation of tasks < 1325457497 227422 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1325457502 545038 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also abbreviation < 1325457617 402533 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1325458377 565781 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-153-142.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1325458386 640365 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-152-72.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325459272 813958 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1325459383 915762 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (<#>) < 1325459395 632052 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `<#>' < 1325459787 375989 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, elliott Phantom_Hoover kallisti update < 1325459809 536443 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks < 1325460447 175135 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yw < 1325460451 905763 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1325460458 518789 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/summary?doi=10.1.1.7.9472 <-- @ design document < 1325460811 776235 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1325461601 509492 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-4-250.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1325461602 306684 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-4-250.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1325461602 471058 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1325461712 814131 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1325461960 528188 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-152-72.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1325461972 970609 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-249-223.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325462290 268776 :derdon!~derdon@p5DE8B60B.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1325462404 898950 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1325462937 527404 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1325463040 448015 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, kallisti Phantom_Hoover update no Ngevd because he's not here < 1325463132 556927 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325463178 697093 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Ping < 1325463594 812726 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1325463643 131404 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia JOIN :#esoteric < 1325463820 979249 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-242-13.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325463855 930133 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-249-223.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1325464079 55397 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat wisdom/coppro < 1325464081 972181 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro prefers his nickname, Pooppy. < 1325464096 799198 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat wisdom/ngevd < 1325464100 507444 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​=pzҶ*Gm...Zo'.LƖ2..`W0O.G?H.7x=9h..> #I.nb.s#mN~s>.2. ?.p?..b6$p9.wVgD.\...jMN*uaD.(..j+vߨnQ \ ^&4,.>&G*R}N!!1.|p'A(;iEﺾ.}.kAiyWb%cM.JE4XMQ_.2.W5^^..9..\,[!DP[Djx^.:Nߩsf..g벍?.?̥"tq.Ƚ2....v0.<θ¹y=I^^.9{r:c;'{нi@FU/Jv...a.-v < 1325464594 795485 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: *`? coppro < 1325464670 297376 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what < 1325464918 198293 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? coppro < 1325464921 452995 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro prefers his nickname, Pooppy. < 1325464935 507576 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION assumes that Gregor set that < 1325464936 965226 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1325464938 729872 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh < 1325464943 720741 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: you assume correctly < 1325464960 119071 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log `learn coppro < 1325464988 949108 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2012-01-02.txt:00:42:40: `log `learn coppro < 1325465191 718767 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle atomicModifyIORef < 1325465192 56861 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.IORef atomicModifyIORef :: IORef a -> (a -> (a, b)) -> IO b < 1325465748 531838 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: 16:08:22 Is hSetBuffering stdin NoBuffering >> hSetBuffering stdout NoBuffering supposed to work on Windows? < 1325465749 239974 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: No. < 1325465760 916987 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hackage.haskell.org/trac/ghc/ticket/2189 < 1325465774 795326 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ty < 1325465880 695839 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Are you reading #haskell logs? < 1325465888 537861 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instead of just joining the channel? < 1325465896 958569 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I suppose you're there now. < 1325465906 821732 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If only there was a mechanism for posting directly into the logs. < 1325465940 170024 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I read logs to figure out why it was so silent. < 1325465984 537479 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Curses, you've figured out our "silence as soon as elliott joins the channel" plan. < 1325466187 682059 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be terrible if someone invented a mechanism to post directly into the logs < 1325466191 491385 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :such as by saying things in the channel < 1325466321 890335 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xECUrlnXCqk < 1325466543 340612 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION bookmarks < 1325466555 107367 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, :( at bug lasting for so long < 1325466663 855616 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: It's the touch of Deewiant. < 1325466671 473638 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every compiler bug he touches never gets fixed, ever. < 1325466676 383869 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know this because n=2. < 1325467086 332953 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The way too fix "writeFile complains about too-many-open-files" is obviously to convert Char to Word8. < 1325467102 746640 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF? < 1325467145 4304 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: His message implies to me that he hadn't actually written it yet. < 1325467154 515437 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : I'm a bit unclear, but tell you what I've write it using String and System.IO.writeFile and if it crashes becasue too many files are open, then I'll know I need to change something. < 1325467159 951977 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think "I've" should be "I'll". < 1325467817 670859 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF, Cracked only started in its current form in 2007? < 1325467832 786695 :Darth_Cliche!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325467862 211115 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's gone from 'crappy ripoff of Mad' to 'crappy ripoff of Maxim' to 'respected(ish), well-known website' very quickly. < 1325467899 734518 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :FSVO respected. < 1325467948 435583 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, as in the name is well-known and there isn't any great demerit associated with it. < 1325468034 580724 :DCliche!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1325468521 678362 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu < 1325468528 813376 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION → sleep < 1325468530 169988 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1325468551 706206 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :New rule: Balance ":-(" and ":-)" smileys. < 1325468571 319954 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :noses :-( < 1325468582 661120 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-( :-( :-( < 1325468650 766385 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION enjoys watching Sgeo detail all the ways in which Active Worlds' API is the most broken piece of shit ever without actually being able to bring himself to say "it's a terrible library for a terrible game". < 1325468660 268928 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Also seriously why don't you just implement the network protocol. < 1325468675 809953 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a terrible library for a good game. < 1325468684 441300 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, against the TOS I think. < 1325468691 252413 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I don't know it < 1325468704 112316 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Against the TOS in a completely indistinguishable way. < 1325468709 752437 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, no, it's a terrible library for a terrible game. < 1325468732 210894 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, there are things you cannot do with the SDK that you can do with the network protocol.. < 1325468829 468407 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So don't do those. < 1325468940 297690 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1325469071 997861 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com TOPIC #esoteric :This cannel Copywrong 0 YOLD Rogger Sarcridh - All lights reversed (Except for things copyrighted by Gregor Richards) | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1325469154 988656 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Good point. < 1325469222 730705 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com TOPIC #esoteric :This channel Copywrong 0 YOLD Rogger Sarcridh - All lights reversed (Except for things copyrighted by Gregor Richards) | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1325469466 76217 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :TeX can make file with binary specials although DVItype will show a message about non-ASCII specisl if you do that. < 1325469537 705402 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf can't make file with binary specials. < 1325469621 319957 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Binary specials! Eight bits for the price of seven. < 1325469666 357496 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did it because of the printer drivers for the new computer I will make, are all DVI-based, so it uses what are called "Black Associates specials" which are binary data in DVI specials (although a DVI file with no specials will still print perfectly OK). Such as, colors (CMYK + grayscale value + pure black/white only value) < 1325469728 308644 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, TeX has no command built-in for converting numbers to binary data to specials, so I wrote macros to do that (TeX is very powerful and can do these kind of things!). < 1325469768 824170 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, I can put 1-byte numbers, 2-byte numbers, and 4-byte numbers. All are big-endian to be consistent with the format of other numbers in DVI file. < 1325470005 20042 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, #haskell is still bad. < 1325470191 664600 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Maybe it's because zzo38 is no longer in there. < 1325470213 688844 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1325470334 439251 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, am I helping or hurting? < 1325470345 713632 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do people ask questions like that? < 1325470391 169202 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The most likely answers range from lukewarm to negative. < 1325470569 500300 :DCliche!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325470756 969846 :Darth_Cliche!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1325471739 878900 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think #haskell is bad too they don't like to answer my questions, sometimes other thing they didn't answer either < 1325471804 688062 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: We have consensus. < 1325472265 210231 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Questions like what? < 1325472339 688282 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1325472342 904625 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oasijfoiasjdfoaijwrglkjwelgkjweaklgja < 1325472347 728672 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokokokokokokokokoko < 1325472350 369151 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokokokokoko < 1325472352 25062 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokko < 1325472354 241237 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooijoijadj < 1325472602 772226 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oklopol < 1325472608 441142 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Like elliott, am I helping or hurting?. < 1325472619 238441 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: how many phds do you have now < 1325472624 184546 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi elliott, are you the same elliott i talked to last time i was here? < 1325472627 178083 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1325472660 33616 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :you really look like him though < 1325472670 562373 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have zero (0) phds < 1325472676 290627 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1325472680 591721 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1325472681 986278 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1325472685 114684 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :still? seriously? < 1325472688 267185 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1325472692 331357 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you in a university yet? < 1325472720 378852 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well no, i'm skipping the university thing and just getting the phd. < 1325472727 267785 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh okay < 1325472727 432494 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because i'm efficient, unlike you < 1325472770 766839 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Don't PhDs typically involve universities too? < 1325472798 79480 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: That's what they tell everyone to keep out the riff-raff, but if you're actually any good you just get the Ph.D. direct. < 1325472803 814303 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have made peace with failing at life. < 1325472806 865656 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course people like oklopol never find out the real truth. < 1325472818 476874 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :They must resign themselves to the fake truth. < 1325472835 975083 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, i just do what people tell me to and try to make the best of it. < 1325472866 619653 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Direct from The Elliott PhD Authority? < 1325472869 800289 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :the drugs help < 1325472879 504501 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the fight club < 1325472908 148018 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Yes. < 1325472996 36838 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: University of Phoenix, obv < 1325473220 276799 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I fixed a silent type error in some unsafeCoerce-using code today. < 1325473224 713224 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thank god I use Haskell! < 1325473304 932124 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325473469 630847 :DCliche!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1325473661 117789 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Was it *your* unsafeCoerce-using code? < 1325473687 246597 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If so, I have no sympathy for you. < 1325473699 857086 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have enough sympathy for everyone < 1325473720 843045 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Yes. < 1325473724 850620 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Well, sort of. < 1325473732 920300 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Take oklopol's sympathy, then. < 1325473736 140157 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote about a third of it. < 1325473736 985812 :NihilistDandy!~NihilistD@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325473747 992513 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you introduce unsafeCoerce to it? < 1325473760 903191 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. But I did suggest doing so. < 1325473765 474266 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although so did other people at the time too. < 1325473777 172869 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It previously abused an IORef and unsafePerformIO for the purpose.) < 1325473785 382390 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Not the polymorphic wossname trick, though.) < 1325473797 62758 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should be possible to implement ST with just unsafeCoerce and Any, right? < 1325473809 67766 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And no other functions or types? No. < 1325473817 373775 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd need (->) at the very least. < 1325473833 523307 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant, as the only unsafe features. < 1325473841 50278 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :All the safe ones allowed too < 1325473851 698872 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides ST < 1325473883 572065 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can implement ST with just unsafePerformIO, too. < 1325473893 484501 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yes, you can construct STMap with unsafeCoerce and Any. < 1325473903 392127 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Did you hear reactive-banana is getting dynamic event switching??? < 1325474167 606208 :DCliche!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325474234 352645 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe the logo of reactive-banana should be an actual radioactive banana. it'd of course look like a normal banana but it would actually be delivered to you by mail when you go to the website with some glue so you can stick it on your monitor and your death would be the difference between radioactive and not. < 1325474361 365778 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1325474362 43341 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could forward that suggestion onto the developer if you'd like. < 1325474368 988424 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should < 1325474425 95145 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1325474438 654712 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, perhaps you can't make it a surjection since i don't think great ideas are extensions of humans. < 1325474457 191036 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION makes the best math jokes < 1325474487 28634 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :we love you oklopol < 1325474525 57044 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i should've said epimorphism since the term extension is only used for morphisms of dynamical systems afaik. < 1325474535 977481 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(epimorphism instead of surjectiom) < 1325474539 185633 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :*surjection < 1325474548 633746 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :speaking of math, i watched an episode of numb3rs today < 1325474574 827194 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you see the irc boats < 1325474600 515448 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first episode was more like 57471571c5 < 1325474615 204327 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :the irc boats aren't in the first ep < 1325474662 46652 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote speaking of math, i watched an episode of numb3rs today the first episode was more like 57471571c5 < 1325474665 350911 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :791) speaking of math, i watched an episode of numb3rs today the first episode was more like 57471571c5 < 1325474741 755540 :cswords!~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325474752 625511 :cswords!~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1325474756 800195 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :the idea in the episode was that there had been 13 rapes plus some murder on the side and the cop's brother is a "world-class mathematician" and he made a formula that told them where the rapist probably lived. he lived there. < 1325474803 241154 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :congratulations, you have now seen every episode of numb3rs < 1325474813 234246 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well actually he didn't and then their dad told them herp derp maybe he occasionally rapes ppl near work to save the rape commute. < 1325474842 194788 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so he was like omgomgomg so simple and predicted *two* zones < 1325474863 851749 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and one was where he lived and one was where he went to work < 1325474922 662048 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the first cluster was where he used to live. so 13 points were enough to pinpoint three locations around which the guy had occasionally done some raping. < 1325474986 182882 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably i'd be so hooked after a few episodes, but i'm not sure i want to be associated with this devil porn. < 1325475245 678840 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what i want is a show where in the pilot they try to prove that a space is compact. their only clue is that it is sequentially compact, but the space is clearly not metric. naturally they must consult The Oracle. < 1325475721 81633 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Will this do as a syntax for a MML compiler? data Token = Number Int | Name String | Block [Token] | Note Note | Text String | Bar deriving (Eq, Show); data Note = Note { noteLetter :: Char, noteOct :: Int, noteAcc :: Int, noteLength :: Maybe Int, noteVol :: Maybe Int } deriving (Eq, Show); < 1325475763 572164 :NihilistDandy!~NihilistD@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com < 1325475795 317196 :NihilistDandy!~NihilistD@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325476274 728054 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, elliott update. elliott, kallisti update. < 1325477481 930993 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1325477498 847157 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Max SendQ exceeded < 1325477523 724545 :azaq23!~derivecto@HSI-KBW-046-005-248-025.hsi8.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1325477528 508130 :azaq23!~derivecto@HSI-KBW-046-005-248-025.hsi8.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de QUIT :Changing host < 1325477528 672328 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1325479346 742830 :Darth_Cliche!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325479381 823421 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you ever play single player Scrabble? < 1325479521 966644 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 JOIN :#esoteric < 1325479565 799207 :DCliche!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 249 seconds < 1325479720 555241 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1325479988 770145 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The rules are the same as two players, except that passing is not allowed. < 1325480203 625867 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :passing should be allowed imho < 1325480268 270305 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes passing is allowed, but if you do, the game immediately ends and you lose points according to your letters in your hand (after replacements are drawn). < 1325480281 959053 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1325480301 165546 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another rule sometimes used is that there is a time limit for the entire game, and the game also ends if time runs out. < 1325480426 80462 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, you could also limit the number of times you can pass? < 1325480478 234326 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes, I suppose that is another possible idea you could use. (Although if there is a time limit, generally you are still not allowed to pass; you could make a pass limit with or without a time limit) < 1325481582 522955 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Once I read somewhere describing type systems of programming languages like Haskell and so on as "Presbyterian" and "Catholic", on some article describing "Roman containers" although I did not understand all of the notation used < 1325482238 751392 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :istr that < 1325482447 447108 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Parsec's "choice" function should really belong to Control.Applicative instead. < 1325482479 975823 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is a fold with <|> < 1325482761 437871 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle (<|>) < 1325482761 946363 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Applicative (<|>) :: Alternative f => f a -> f a -> f a < 1325482762 111030 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Text.Parsec.Prim (<|>) :: (ParsecT s u m a) -> (ParsecT s u m a) -> (ParsecT s u m a) < 1325482762 111195 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Text.ParserCombinators.Parsec.Prim (<|>) :: (ParsecT s u m a) -> (ParsecT s u m a) -> (ParsecT s u m a) < 1325482806 798841 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: They are all the same, Parsec's one is just for Parsec only < 1325482829 118551 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, I just wasn't certain that <|> was in Control.Applicative < 1325483713 824336 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do like Parsec very much. Even though they did define the Applicative and Alternative instance for Parsec, the designers of that system seem to not use them, from what I can see. < 1325483795 286364 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And why did they define their own operators with the same names and functions as the Control.Applicative ones anyways? < 1325484333 936032 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: asum < 1325484335 600591 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle asum < 1325484336 87354 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Foldable asum :: (Foldable t, Alternative f) => t (f a) -> f a < 1325484349 525736 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: and because Parsec is actually the source of the Alternative operators < 1325484353 956555 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, historical reasons < 1325484373 947174 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, that is why. Shouldn't they fix it by now, though? < 1325484397 929470 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they should probably re-export the polymorphic versions < 1325484410 128590 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes, that is probably what they should do. < 1325484474 842566 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :submit a patch, it'd be like a five-line change :) < 1325484625 686136 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thing that annoys me about the "you can install gentoo with three commands" quote is that it doesn't list the other two < 1325485034 715605 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is infinity a stream? < 1325485473 51857 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1325485485 45923 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :infinity is not a stream because that question is meaningless. < 1325485508 288015 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note to self: Suggest strict state monad to apfelmus. < 1325485524 882213 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: jokes are not known for their factual accuracy < 1325485548 930693 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but it could be both a joke /and/ factually accurate with just two more lines < 1325485554 414307 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it'd be both amusing /and/ useful < 1325485574 177068 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: stand up comedians tend to employ this kind of humor, in fact. < 1325485587 406386 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"the truth is funny" is kind of stuff. < 1325485589 774730 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :-is < 1325485595 663706 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or to put it another way, the joke's funnier if it's based on actual facts < 1325485664 317959 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, then again, most of it is just incorrect sexist/racist bullshit so... < 1325485669 849655 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe the truth isn't very funny. < 1325485703 39122 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it would then be a /bad/ joke < 1325485707 777840 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the timing would be completely ruined < 1325485738 980599 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: OTOH, I think the joke's much funnier if there are three commands, and that's the first < 1325485746 105596 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's only funny if it's true < 1325485770 20503 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: How to be a shitty standup comedian in 3 easy steps: 1. Say stereotypical bullshit 2. I'm just saying what everyone is thinking! 3. Why are you annoyed, it was a JOKE. < 1325485779 282237 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is it untrue < 1325485804 327081 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the command would give you a gentoo installation assuming there are no stupid mistakes in it < 1325485807 689167 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are two other commands, but they just aren't provided < 1325485817 370708 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :providing the other two would ruin the timing i agree < 1325485828 895568 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other two commands are presumably system configuration, since that one already installs openoffice :) < 1325485838 288143 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd give them later on in the same quote < 1325485841 582285 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :after the comedic timing < 1325485844 409954 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, which would ruin the joke < 1325485853 294520 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps even double-linebreak and give a "for the interested reader" PS thing < 1325485860 921027 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't tell a joke and then say "wait I'm not done yet" and spend three minutes giving a pedantic discussion of the relevant facts < 1325485868 390204 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because to people who aren't ais523, that's really, really boring < 1325485875 918624 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :then the joke is how bad the original joke is ruined < 1325485876 406302 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and will ruin the previous enjoyment of the joke < 1325485878 530705 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is not really complicated < 1325485882 671576 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: even a link would be enough < 1325485889 373806 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :* to ruin the joke < 1325485894 937472 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, look at me jumping out of this ridiculous conversation -> < 1325485913 37467 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't leave me allone / im fallow suit < 1325485923 909603 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fallow Suit, famous comedian < 1325486160 120663 :Darth_Cliche!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: SLEEP, GLORIOUS SLEEP < 1325486361 830241 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :~/src/reactive-banana/reactive-banana/src/Reactive/Banana < 1325486362 924290 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a good path < 1325486863 134454 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be bizarre even without the repetition < 1325486873 887257 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I take it the ~ there means home dir, not an actual directory called ~? < 1325486883 40803 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :alt-f2 on this computer interprets it as the latter, which is annoying < 1325486914 829464 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :former < 1325486919 687048 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's bizarre apart from the repetition < 1325487455 785230 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is another use of <*> operator: parseInt = option id (negate <$ char '-') <*> (read <$> some digit); < 1325487460 210181 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ? < 1325487488 68807 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: if I alt-f2 and then use a ~ in either the command to run or an argument to it < 1325487491 764930 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's interpreted as a literal ~ < 1325487497 661457 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not expanded to /home/ais523 < 1325487582 150589 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it'd be bizarre even without the repetition what's bizarre apart from the repetition < 1325487596 888709 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh, the name "reactive banana" < 1325487627 888997 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, "reactive" is taken :) < 1325487819 906302 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hmmm I need to start thinking about taxes. < 1325487997 139030 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK I made a parser of a MML variant. After a note you can have # or + for sharp, - or b for flat, x for double sharp, and you can have more than one of any of them. You can also have a optional length after a note, an octave shift ' for up and , for down, and a volume in parentheses. Persistent octave shifts are < for down and > for up < 1325488054 757537 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is already more than most other MML that I know of. < 1325488173 65421 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe another thing I should have is multiple notes in parentheses for making chords < 1325488198 468959 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does this look like good so far? < 1325488259 196800 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, assuming you can double shift octaves and such < 1325488277 640384 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also an absolute octave notation would be good. A4 < 1325488284 339073 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, you can include multiple ' or , to multiple shift octaves, or you can use persistent octave shifts such as < and > < 1325488295 512633 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you plan to reserve that notation for things like chords. < 1325488327 750397 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I do not intend absolute octave notation because you can use the notation like A4 to indicate a quarter note A instead. And you can have L and a number for persistent length setting. These are standard features of MML. < 1325488380 715093 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And use O and a number to persistent select an octave. < 1325488429 816679 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, i should go to bed < 1325488461 296842 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I mean, you can still use ## for double sharp instead, but x is a more common way of indicating double sharp in music notation. < 1325488481 544670 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: you'd also want a way to select time signature so that A4 has meaning < 1325488487 437811 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also < 1325488492 775509 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :A4. could specify a dotted quarter note. < 1325488558 968221 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, yes, that is good too; use . to specify dotted lengths. And the way to set time signature. How I have it, any words must be in lowercase because uppercase are used for notes and other single-letter commands. < 1325488581 759150 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: also you could write a parser that converts your notation into Haskore data structures and then you could take advantage of all of those libraries. < 1325488611 533554 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Yes I can add such feature; currently I am planning to use .S3M as output format but I can add more. < 1325488639 274197 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: well Haskore wouldn't be used as an output format in this case, just as a means to save time by using existing code. < 1325488654 930287 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure Haskore can output to a number of different formats < 1325488686 106698 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh dude there's a csound backend for HasSound < 1325488706 516131 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The lowercase words commands probably I can make most of them in Italian since music notations commonly uses Italian. < 1325488797 90766 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: surwe. < 1325488804 620007 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What formats does Haskore have? Anyways, I intend other things too, not only writing the music; such as, comments, instrument definition (by file or by mathematical formulas), and later on, non-12-TET. < 1325488806 244986 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm italian < 1325488809 613952 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not treu) < 1325488862 356929 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can use ; for comments in file which are ignored, but another kind of comments that are copied into the sample names in the .S3M output file so that a .S3M player program can display them. < 1325490999 926183 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I include features which the most sophisticated .S3M tracker programs lack (in S3M output anyways; and, at least, which the free ones lack). But still use completely standard output format, which can be loaded in tracker programs. (I did already start writing this program and I know how to continue too) < 1325491346 134779 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-242-13.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1325491347 463488 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325491355 36449 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have used TeX, what in your opinion, are what makes TeX an excellent typesetting program? < 1325491413 2925 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Or bad, if that is what it is to you) < 1325491425 204862 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's bad because hitler uses it < 1325491448 476391 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hitler uses TeX? < 1325491496 210392 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :That isn't a good reason anyways < 1325491569 672680 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :he might! < 1325491586 855034 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It still isn't a good reason < 1325491712 656750 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you used TeX at all, anyways? < 1325491973 188634 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1325492080 355804 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it good for you? < 1325492095 900752 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe! < 1325492145 272048 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :How many kind of its features have you used and what other things have you done with it? < 1325492171 233243 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Bet you didn't expect the TeX inquisition. < 1325492265 931766 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: i did not :( < 1325492440 395554 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, kallisti update < 1325493149 239434 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :If making a Haskell package (one which is compiled into an executable; not a library) licensed under GNU GPL, is it OK to change the LICENSE filename to COPYING if the .cabal file is also changed accordingly? < 1325493196 684267 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Libraries I make in Haskell are public domain but for executables I will usually want GPL < 1325493270 633948 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Although Haskell Swiss Ephemeris library is GPL because Swiss Ephemeris itself is GPL) < 1325493369 150160 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1325493477 553538 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :In addition, why does it try to copy the LICENSE file anyways (and result in error message) if public domain is selected? They should either add such a file (probably containing a public domain dedication and the message to use it for any purpose, even if your jurisdiction has no public domain), or make it not copy the file < 1325493536 721384 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another thing I notice, is the copyright notice is not automatically generated if GPL is selected; it is still commented out and you have to put it in by yourself. < 1325493660 875453 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :which jurisdictions have public domain and which ones don't? < 1325493681 874422 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know US has it, but that is all I know < 1325493714 725637 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :germany doesnt iirc < 1325493721 277955 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I know is some people have said that some jurisdictions do not have it. It is why the WTFPL is made up < 1325493731 179165 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1325493746 251469 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it would be prudent to find out if Sweden has it for me. < 1325493806 228505 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they should fix the cabal simply for that reason, which is that some jurisdictions do not have public domain, so that the message to do anything with it can still be provided anyways < 1325493835 87867 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell elliott test < 1325493835 291896 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can tell yourself! < 1325493838 328567 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh < 1325493848 94925 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so you got a message? < 1325493849 300470 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott NICK :colloinkgravisom < 1325493851 777835 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is the message typoed? < 1325493868 613247 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell olsner test < 1325493868 946418 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can tell yourself! < 1325493875 260214 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :no you can't < 1325493878 667530 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it didn't record it < 1325493885 208074 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course you could using other channels < 1325493897 920932 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I guess it is kind of ambiguous if it is typoed or not < 1325493900 161836 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :the point is that I can tell myself without using lambdabot < 1325493926 856228 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck me. I been on windows for a few days and I reboot to linux and have over 1 GB of updates to download... < 1325493932 219906 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can also ask someone else to do it for you, if necessary < 1325493958 457401 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, I guess so yeah < 1325493973 158767 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell lambdabot does this work? < 1325493973 657772 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice try ;) < 1325493978 165405 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1325494001 667361 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :arguably that should go to whoever runs the bot < 1325494008 302517 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cale < 1325494008 802157 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :colloinkgravisom: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. < 1325494013 112190 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :colloinkgravisom, right < 1325494030 278767 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it have anything like the ADMIN command of IRC? IRC has ADMIN command tell you the information < 1325494048 79247 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :does that actually work I wonder < 1325494054 318693 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm it does < 1325494090 392591 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages < 1325494090 892408 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti said 5d 2h 36m 2s ago: Hey, so I don't think [a] = Maybe (a, [a]) because there's no equivalent to (Just _|_) or (a, Just _|_) or .. < 1325494100 875688 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't dreg up the past lambdabot < 1325494187 329083 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can see it doesn't work due to undefined but ignoring undefined value, it will be mathematically the same thing, so it is just as good for computing derivatives and isomorphisms and so on < 1325494200 112173 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, kallisti counting bottoms, #haskell's favorite pastime that < 1325494215 731300 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it < 1325494245 603795 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe not *the* favorite, but it's high up on the list anyway < 1325494340 80562 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Once I calculated the derivative of list type, someone said it is the correct derivative but doesn't seem a correct zipper. < 1325494376 417903 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was oerjan. < 1325494409 462157 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I think it was oerjan < 1325494450 270020 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you think it is a correct zipper? Or is it a correct derivative but not a correct zipper? < 1325494457 68947 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And why? < 1325494685 366857 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ls < 1325494689 646031 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :err wrong computer < 1325494715 457399 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm using synergy and if fucked up my input focus somehow) < 1325495356 642974 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :w00t, LTL types FRP. This is kind of cool. < 1325495557 811397 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1325495833 998538 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1325496232 757806 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, what is FRP and LTL in this context? < 1325496267 501 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :functional reactive programming / linear temporal logic < 1325496270 435556 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1325496272 463350 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Functional reactive programming and linear temporal logic respectivelyi. < 1325496274 67566 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :-i < 1325496331 594055 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325496658 103666 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1325496658 436794 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ping < 1325496658 768928 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pong < 1325496765 457853 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1325497127 649241 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1325497618 423214 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325497626 266505 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1325497647 866258 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey. < 1325497714 119868 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Today's xkcd is alright, except for the punchline < 1325497769 62190 :FireFly!firefly@unaffiliated/firefly QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1325497806 493482 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://xkcd.com/997/ I like this one < 1325497827 24260 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I missed the joke < 1325497846 670097 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, in the one kallisti linked? Same < 1325497855 68716 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it is some US politics joke or something? < 1325497884 18733 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, is that so? < 1325497903 964901 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it was a quiz show? < 1325497912 269510 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was? < 1325497919 965759 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it's an incredibly lame joke about a radio quiz show in the US. < 1325497925 902260 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that only old people and nerds listen to. < 1325497927 400150 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah I see < 1325497997 943736 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's funny though because any newsworthy events involving Peter Sagal would basically have to have a headline following that format. < 1325498004 271283 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's required. < 1325498007 742591 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1325498097 361259 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's basically nothing political about NPR, except recently Republican media seems to think NPR is liberal. < 1325498105 369656 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :when it's just like... not stupid. < 1325498111 861372 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not stupid = liberal, I guess. < 1325498406 773834 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually NPR has been known to fire people for displaying a political bias in their personal life. < 1325498438 639013 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see the issue as long as it doesn't affect them in their profession < 1325498465 158635 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's not one. I think NPR is just really strict about it for public relations. < 1325498510 736806 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it could easily backfire. < 1325498519 971320 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1325498545 609133 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes firing people for publically displaying opinions probably isn't good press. < 1325498592 382301 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :grantedm a lot of the firings over Occupy Wall Street were freelance radio reporters and not actual NPR staff, for what it's worth. < 1325498663 95384 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1325498733 898845 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but freelancers is probably like... the majority of NPR's employees. < 1325498741 845931 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that includes a lot of people that work for NPR stations. < 1325498835 108638 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Occupy #esoteric. (And do what, exactly?) < 1325498872 902214 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, talking about esolangs all the time? < 1325498874 886901 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that could work < 1325498934 720570 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess as a protest of all the non-topicalness that goes on here it could work. < 1325498940 482312 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1325498979 382035 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl $_ = "test"; s/(.)./@/; print $1 < 1325498981 633176 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :t < 1325498986 743359 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1325499003 253420 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has never accessed a capture group from a substitute, actually. < 1325499008 788645 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I wasn't sure if it actually did that. < 1325499042 999661 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you mean to say you have never used a $n in the replacement part of a s///? < 1325499107 861326 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hmm... maybe I have. < 1325499110 478097 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes I have. < 1325499378 253310 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1325499885 438317 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1325499894 683172 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl print [] == [] < 1325499895 202463 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1325499897 909337 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl print [] eq [] < 1325499898 405926 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1325499987 306902 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm what is a reference in numeric context I wonder < 1325499994 195380 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl print [] < 1325499994 861407 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARRAY(0x7ff735781d48) < 1325500001 202770 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess its address? < 1325500018 281151 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl print "0xFF" + "OxFF" < 1325500018 947138 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 < 1325500041 157668 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh okay. < 1325500049 117891 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl print "0xFF" + "0xFF" < 1325500049 618486 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 < 1325500073 739327 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so perl doesn't attempt to read hex literals when converting a string to a number. < 1325500129 778671 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, that looks like a reasonable address for the stack to me < 1325500151 310010 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :??? < 1325500155 925735 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : ARRAY(0x7ff735781d48) < 1325500156 956292 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is < 1325500173 731886 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does that look like the address to a stack? it looks like an arbitrary location in memory to me. < 1325500173 898624 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like about the usual location of the stack on Linux (x86-64) < 1325500225 686836 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, run cat /proc/self/maps a few time on a 64-bit machine < 1325500232 469931 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ah yes good ol' 7ff735781d48" -- Vorpal < 1325500238 243706 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, look at [stack] and [heap] < 1325500246 358066 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, stack is usually 7ff* < 1325500268 844531 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, heap tends to start with many zeros < 1325500308 360927 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, libraries tend to be mapped around 7f0*-7fe* < 1325500322 950357 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, not so hard after all < 1325500333 26988 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run cat /proc/self/maps | egrep '[stack]' < 1325500344 173988 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :00400000-0040c000 r-xp 00000000 00:09 842385 /bin/cat \ 0060c000-0060d000 rw-p 0000c000 00:09 842385 /bin/cat \ 0060d000-0062e000 rwxp 00000000 00:00 0 [heap] \ 40000000-4001e000 r-xp 00000000 00:0f 835040 /lib64/ld-2.11.2.so \ 4021d000-4021e000 r--p 0001d000 00:0f 835040 /lib64/ld-2.11.2.so < 1325500347 505259 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run cat /proc/self/maps | egrep '\[stack\]' < 1325500351 88274 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :7fbff23000-7fbff44000 rw-p 00000000 00:00 0 [stack] < 1325500378 345196 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is 7ff* on my computer though < 1325500383 981237 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :on my system the stack is consistently 7fff* for cat even < 1325500387 145698 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :three f < 1325500396 436129 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, "7ff" is quite stacky indeed. < 1325500426 118764 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, but 7ff* is a huge range of addresses.... < 1325500439 734732 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :stack or vdso, and you usually don't have addresses into the vdso < 1325500457 992604 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, yes and? < 1325500467 47792 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, there is nothing much else up there < 1325500477 676408 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, the vdso is) < 1325500519 770168 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, your point was? < 1325500560 355674 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's quite close to the top of the bottom half of the canonical-form 48-bit addresses. < 1325500578 281933 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that... this notion of stackiness is purely arbitrary because you just see 7ff a lot. Seeing another address with 7ff* does not tell you that it's "stacky" < 1325500582 366044 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, you tend to pick up this sort of vague feeling for what an address is when debugging C code. Like "hm, that address it crashed from accessing, looks like it is related to something on the stack" < 1325500602 910642 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl print map {[]} 1..10 < 1325500603 410305 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARRAY(0x7fc52154fd48)ARRAY(0x7fc52156da90)ARRAY(0x7fc52156dac0)ARRAY(0x7fc52156daf0)ARRAY(0x7fc52156db20)ARRAY(0x7fc52156db50)ARRAY(0x7fc52154fb98)ARRAY(0x7fc52156da00)ARRAY(0x7fc52156dc88)ARRAY(0x7fc52156dcb8) < 1325500612 752729 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are mostly allocated on the stack I suspect < 1325500638 993934 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, or in a mmaped area up high < 1325500640 901997 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :could happen < 1325500646 938847 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :definitely not on the heap though < 1325500694 337518 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1325500720 25103 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :looking at perl here indicates it does mmap some anon mappings < 1325500724 9710 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :could be one of those < 1325500731 275930 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :7f07f9850000-7f07f9851000 rw-p 00000000 00:00 0 < 1325500731 442935 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :7fffc0302000-7fffc0323000 rw-p 00000000 00:00 0 [stack] < 1325500737 584143 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :aanon mmappings < 1325500749 492982 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm actually that one is there with cat too < 1325500753 688865 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so probably not that one < 1325500759 947798 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I guess that is libc related) < 1325500774 927890 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but then iirc glibc allocs huge chunks from mmap) < 1325500783 569642 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl $_ = []; s/ARRAY\((.*)\)/$1/; print eval; < 1325500784 237092 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :140303706385736 < 1325500807 784695 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually when I do that locally, the []s seem quite heap-allocated. < 1325500810 699967 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(doesn't explain why perl would allocate from the same mmaped page as something that is there in cat) < 1325500813 531520 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ perl -e 'print map {[]} 1..10; print "\n";' < 1325500813 697692 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARRAY(0x1492d48)ARRAY(0x14b0480)ARRAY(0x14b04b0)ARRAY(0x14b04e0)ARRAY(0x14b0510)ARRAY(0x14b9b88)ARRAY(0x1492b98)ARRAY(0x14b03d8)ARRAY(0x14b0408)ARRAY(0x14b9cd8) < 1325500822 849076 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, strange results with !perl then < 1325500832 859444 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah those look heapish < 1325500866 288486 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :look heapish for me too < 1325500876 341396 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I guess it is possible plash does something weird? < 1325500886 8024 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure why it would create a different heap though < 1325500910 738471 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run fgrep '[heap]' /proc/self/maps < 1325500913 777232 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :00613000-00634000 rwxp 00000000 00:00 0 [heap] < 1325500918 996673 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't seem so < 1325500945 292737 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl @x = ([],[]); @x = map {s/ARRAY\((.*)\)/$1/; eval}; print abs($x[0] - $x[1]); < 1325500945 812292 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :syntax error at /tmp/input.2124 line 1, near "};" \ Execution of /tmp/input.2124 aborted due to compilation errors. < 1325500957 194461 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl @x = ([],[]); @x = map {s/ARRAY\((.*)\)/$1/; eval} @x; print abs($x[0] - $x[1]); < 1325500957 860175 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :432 < 1325500960 367430 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl @x = ([],[]); @x = map {s/ARRAY\((.*)\)/$1/; eval} @x; print abs($x[0] - $x[1]); < 1325500960 867279 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :432 < 1325500962 294202 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl system("cat /proc/$$/maps | grep heap"); < 1325500962 960612 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :7f7526a10000-7f7526a50000 rw-p 00000000 00:00 0 [heap] < 1325500963 626294 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl @x = ([],[]); @x = map {s/ARRAY\((.*)\)/$1/; eval} @x; print abs($x[0] - $x[1]); < 1325500964 297182 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :432 < 1325500976 476775 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"!perl" is EgoBot, though. < 1325500985 967893 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that's quite a high heap. < 1325500996 969858 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1325500998 709515 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :very strange < 1325501003 33488 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run perl -e 'print []' < 1325501006 45508 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARRAY(0x605d48) < 1325501013 488916 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOT SO "STACKY" NOW EH? ASSHOLES. < 1325501016 522799 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1325501017 892418 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run perl & fgrep '[heap]' /proc/$!/maps < 1325501021 224866 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :006e2000-006f5000 rwxp 00000000 00:00 0 [heap] < 1325501033 287261 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't really been following the sandboxings; at least HackEgo runs on that umlbox thing nowadays, not plash. < 1325501033 955328 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought egobot and hackego had very similar setups? < 1325501039 326325 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, oh okay < 1325501043 158813 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that could change things < 1325501049 696426 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, why umlbox? < 1325501056 426155 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not? < 1325501066 695968 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if that is user mode linux then I guess that changes stuff a lot < 1325501072 735930 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run perl <<< '@x = ([],[]); @x = map {s/ARRAY\((.*)\)/$1/; eval} @x; print abs($x[0] - $x[1]);' < 1325501073 734951 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :NIH syndrome, maybe. < 1325501076 261620 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :109176 < 1325501081 141964 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh my. < 1325501083 876374 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, as for why not: why would you want to fix something that wasn't broken? < 1325501092 73134 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was it broken in some way to use plash? < 1325501101 793400 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, ? < 1325501102 958903 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Plash relies on a glibc patch, and is, as such, difficult to maintain and out of date. UMLBox relies only on UML (Usermode Linux), a component of the Linux kernel, and requires no patches to UML. Furthermore, UMLBox requires no special privileges to install or use." < 1325501108 942688 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(From the umlbox page.) < 1325501110 815541 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the address difference is much higher on hackego < 1325501112 775046 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :than on egobot < 1325501113 980356 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1325501125 546724 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :between repeated []'s < 1325501128 710673 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1325501192 822714 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, looks like gregor made umlbox? https://bitbucket.org/GregorR/umlbox/wiki/Home is the first hit for me < 1325501224 998742 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl print `perl -v` < 1325501225 997960 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​\ This is perl, v5.10.1 (*) built for x86_64-linux-gnu-thread-multi \ \ Copyright 1987-2009, Larry Wall \ \ Perl may be copied only under the terms of either the Artistic License or the \ GNU General Public License, which may be found in the Perl 5 source kit. \ \ Complete documentation for Perl, including FAQ lists, should be found on \ this system using "man perl" or "perldoc perl". If you have access to the < 1325501236 51213 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm same version < 1325501240 680457 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run perl -v < 1325501243 807844 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​\ This is perl, v5.10.1 (*) built for x86_64-linux-gnu-thread-multi \ (with 53 registered patches, see perl -V for more detail) \ \ Copyright 1987-2009, Larry Wall \ \ Perl may be copied only under the terms of either the Artistic License or the \ GNU General Public License, which may be found in the Perl 5 source kit. \ \ Complete documentation for Perl, including FAQ lists, should be found on \ this system using < 1325501247 882340 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes, that's why I speculated "NIH syndrome". < 1325501253 351281 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1325501298 357517 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :# Plash supports X11 programs. UMLBox does not, as sockets do not translate host-to-guest with UML. <-- so there is no networking at all? Because X11 works fine over tcp < 1325501320 488683 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought uml had support for networking in general, so it should be possible to set up < 1325501320 988482 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl print v5.10 + v5.11 < 1325501321 488369 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 < 1325501333 823125 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose that just means "transparently supports". < 1325501376 340066 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1325501387 930021 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel like say would improve perl's golf scores, except that it currently requires a use v5.10 line. < 1325501391 438740 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually it looks like umlbox has no network < 1325501404 829785 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl use v5.10; say "Hello, World!" < 1325501405 663084 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello, World! < 1325501437 535500 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :why say < 1325501447 583939 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is it any better than the traditional print? < 1325501451 462310 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl print "Hello, World!\n" < 1325501451 961309 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello, World! < 1325501456 174484 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1325501470 170105 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's better for golfing, except for the above mentioned problem. < 1325501489 548352 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: umlbox certainly can do networking. < 1325501494 480654 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :really I don't know why it needs use v5.10. is it really going to break anything if you simply include it? < 1325501498 377420 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm < 1325501501 733018 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Er, sorry, I mean, UML can. < 1325501505 331848 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1325501506 831816 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: umlbox probably doesn't. < 1325501518 241329 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1325501521 110942 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe it does? There's that "fetch" thing. < 1325501527 595023 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't looked at the implementation, really. < 1325501534 332912 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :also: "-X is very limited as yet. It can only forward DISPLAY=:0.0, it forwards it to DISPLAY=127.0.0.1:0.0, and it doesn't set any of the required environment variables (of which at least DISPLAY and XAUTHORITY are necessities). It will be fixed in time :)" < 1325501540 802631 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so uh, it does kind of support x11? < 1325501545 702198 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yet it says further down it doesn't < 1325501549 21157 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you know how it is with documentation. < 1325501553 581141 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1325501597 360346 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway don't you need to enable UML in the kernel config for umlbox to work? < 1325501601 639220 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is that always-on? < 1325501612 763400 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :because if it isn't then it probably does require root to install < 1325501664 518127 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1325501669 841453 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's "U" as in user-mode. < 1325501682 34474 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The host kernel runs it just like it would any random process. < 1325501700 512001 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, doesn't it need a bit of kernel support to do memory protection between processes? < 1325501701 551300 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1325501715 491934 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, processes in the same UML instance < 1325501749 415779 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly there was some bit that you could do optionally. < 1325501768 335937 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, otherwise it wouldn't be secure, you could just write into the UML code itself < 1325501814 682324 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume it uses ptrace to catch system calls. Since anything else can easily be beaten < 1325501878 619434 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or I guess it could dynamically recompile code < 1325501922 708367 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :...or what you're saying means there is a way to hack it. < 1325501941 98977 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the internals have changed a couple of times; back when I used it, it certainly didn't use ptrace at least straightforwardly, since the whole UML kernel and everything running in it appeared as a single process in the host. < 1325501953 932401 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And you can't trace yourself.) < 1325501976 468359 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I mean that unless it gets some special support from the kernel or does full emulation like a more general vm (qemu, virtualbox and so on) there are going to be ways to hack it < 1325502002 228934 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that's what i thought you meant. < 1325502024 232141 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(of course virtualbox and qemu generally gets kernel support, qemu doesn't actually need it though, but it runs much slower without) < 1325502043 984983 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right; there was a "skas" patch for the host kernel. < 1325502052 704744 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if it got included in the mainline kernel tree or not. < 1325502062 852895 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :From what I recall, it was reasonably non-intrusive. < 1325502076 951632 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems it is integrated according to wikipedia < 1325502112 120020 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what system calls are exposed to do this < 1325502121 682465 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "old mode" used the "each UML process is a host process, ptraced by the manager for syscalls" approach. < 1325502126 730068 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would like to take a look at the interface and see if it can be used in some interesting way < 1325502157 814397 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, there is still the need to catch system calls also < 1325502194 869094 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd check the UML wiki but it's being unresponsive. :/ < 1325502297 614693 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't even find that wiki < 1325502320 853282 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://user-mode-linux.sourceforge.net/ -> The UML Wiki. < 1325502332 9766 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm indeed not responding < 1325502353 377335 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It will eventually give a 502 Proxy Error from uml.jfdi.org. < 1325502377 207709 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1325502474 113327 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, the old skas stuff seemed to use /proc/mm but that definitely doesn't exist these days < 1325502536 616605 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most UML-related things seem quite obsoleted these days. < 1325502566 385233 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls /proc/mm < 1325502569 163439 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ls: cannot access /proc/mm: No such file or directory < 1325502582 3559 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's all qemu-kvm or Xen or then the "containers"-style OpenVZ/vserver stuff now. < 1325502609 15977 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1325502657 944229 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if anyone's using 'lguest' for some real-world thing, though. < 1325502666 148482 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :which one is lguest? < 1325502669 613229 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, which style < 1325502720 608855 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does that hypervisor/paravirtualization thing. It's very very very minimal; but it was included in the mainline kernel quite early, as far as these things go. < 1325502752 593868 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only lguest-related tool I've seen is the Documentation/virtual/lguest/lguest.c example code. < 1325502763 684768 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1325502788 994439 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"2.6.23-git13 and above", apparently. < 1325502813 356615 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently it might be a bit 32-bit-only. < 1325502873 614276 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It runs copies of the "host" kernel as guests, if I recall correctly. < 1325503127 822635 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1325503189 246356 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1325503220 329788 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf, steam got stuck in a loop of "loading game" dialogue popping up and closing < 1325503224 696759 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :had to kill the process < 1325503267 50158 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what the "library" screen of Steam will look like if you win the "all the games" award. < 1325503269 870758 :Effilry!firefly@firefly.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1325503274 741582 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, horrible? < 1325503298 410552 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, anyway I wonder what the chances are < 1325503352 513325 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :An empty search in the store returns 4178 matches. < 1325503354 180725 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swat Effilry -----### < 1325503356 392056 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*s < 1325503362 612028 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, btw I recently (yesterday) played portal 2. It was far better than the first one. I actually didn't give up halfway out of boredom this time. < 1325503367 535766 :Effilry!firefly@firefly.xen.prgmr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh < 1325503372 434747 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I liked it. < 1325503380 395832 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the single-player side, anyway. < 1325503381 228630 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :THERE IS NO USE TRYING TO HIDE < 1325503382 337573 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I think the boss fight was terrible though < 1325503404 176641 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also Cave Johnson is one crazy man. < 1325503408 274253 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes < 1325503411 525780 :Effilry!firefly@firefly.xen.prgmr.com NICK :FireFly < 1325503417 965940 :FireFly!firefly@firefly.xen.prgmr.com QUIT :Changing host < 1325503418 131284 :FireFly!firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1325503462 506676 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, anyway I found myself thinking "Trine 2 is a way better puzzle game" several times. < 1325503487 98045 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not when it comes to the story, trine 2 has a rather weak story, but the gameplay is way better in trine and trine 2 < 1325503567 953175 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :For some reason I couldn't quite get myself interested about the first Trine. < 1325503570 618644 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"All right, I've been thinking. When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade. Make life take the lemons back! Get mad! I don't want your damn lemons! What am I supposed to do with these?! Demand to see life's manager! Make life rue the day it thought it could give Cave Johnson lemons! Do you know who I am? I'm the man who's gonna burn your house down! With the lemons! I'm gonna get my engineers to invent a combustible lemon that burns your house down < 1325503570 782999 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :!" < 1325503623 639788 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, also I don't really like the difficulty in portal 2, I mean it is difficult for the wrong reasons. Usually it is hard because there is some white wall up high near the badly lit ceiling that I didn't spot that I had to check a walkthrough < 1325503632 850757 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :the actual puzzles once you locate all the components are not hard < 1325503679 111432 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't recall very much of that, though I might just have forgotten. Hard it's not, that much is true. < 1325503682 774636 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was just one puzzle in trine 2 where I had that issue. The other I had to think about were just mechanically challenging < 1325503736 374365 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :usually platforming issues as well < 1325503835 639541 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is an ice slope that you need to get up in a late trine 2 level, it wasn't hard to figure out how: attach a grappable (sp?) object to spiky swinging ball overhead then grapple it as the thief and wait for max swing both of the spiky ball and yourself before you release < 1325503843 401252 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :executing it was kind of hard though < 1325503864 336449 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, not sure if you noticed that in trine 2 (if you played it?) < 1325503884 544958 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not yet. < 1325503887 920431 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1325503907 695461 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, just handcuff it to a vending machine < 1325503913 295093 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what? < 1325503923 314331 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: infamous bug in Scribblenauts < 1325503928 923955 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh? < 1325503931 524504 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty much all the action levels can be bypassed by doing that < 1325503933 82153 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what happened when you did that < 1325503940 809760 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the item ends up inside the vending machine < 1325503944 21425 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you can just vend it out < 1325503946 595169 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1325503953 32225 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :how strange < 1325503953 370771 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and skip whatever puzzle you'd normally need to do to get the item < 1325503983 205978 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would handcuffing an item do that < 1325503984 38255 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh for... because of a missing "Unknown Plugin (text/html)" this Java "personnel records" mess-plication apparently can't run. < 1325503994 439519 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz JOIN :#esoteric < 1325503998 168472 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, lol < 1325504010 358444 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :hellooo < 1325504015 849613 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi, I guess < 1325504016 16593 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome Frooxius < 1325504019 369618 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Frooxius: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page < 1325504031 30264 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm guessing because I can never remember who's been here before and who hasn't < 1325504035 88382 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, sometimes I can < 1325504039 868572 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Vorpal's been here a while < 1325504042 34472 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1325504047 904333 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's first time I'm here < 1325504058 673526 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and that guy "elliott" he isn't new either, right? ;P < 1325504074 546211 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know, it'd be massively out of character here for me to not do `? welcome even though you've already been welcomed, and with a more modern syntax at that < 1325504076 43669 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh < 1325504077 416324 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? welcome < 1325504081 32522 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page < 1325504091 397208 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, modern syntax? < 1325504093 268248 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1325504099 308037 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the `? syntax came first < 1325504108 992115 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so a less modern one then? < 1325504112 664784 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :`type welcome < 1325504115 583901 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: type: not found < 1325504117 948939 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run type welcome < 1325504121 75053 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :welcome is /hackenv/bin/welcome < 1325504126 390217 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :now how _vorpal_ remembers who is new when he cannot notice anything else, i don't know. < 1325504129 817169 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :`url bin/welcome < 1325504133 35265 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/bin/welcome < 1325504142 86959 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: DOS "type" = UNIX "cat" < 1325504150 78639 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I was looking for bash type < 1325504167 858741 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :also that is a terribly complicated piece of code < 1325504173 187327 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :if (defined($_=shift)) { s/ +/ @ /g; exec "bin/@", $_ . " ? welcome"; } else { exec "bin/?", "welcome"; } < 1325504174 531714 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :why < 1325504179 837657 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swats Vorpal -----### < 1325504183 939232 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, ? < 1325504188 155449 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, what < 1325504195 595742 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: so it can take any number of nicks, including none < 1325504199 632034 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1325504201 464225 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wrote that :P < 1325504217 54574 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, right. I don't really know perl < 1325504251 173511 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course some of the complication is because it uses @ and ? as subprocesses < 1325504254 337557 :nooga!~nooga@c35-253.icpnet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1325504285 973163 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I'm trying to work out if @{" "} can be written as @ (that is, @ then space) < 1325504291 455694 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I don't really use DOS commands, nor have I really ever used them more than a handful of times, so chances are I didn't type a DOS command by mistake < 1325504366 710560 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, Windows commands are based on them < 1325504367 900815 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, btw did you ever consider making wol use UML? < 1325504375 53218 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might end up less insane < 1325504397 619251 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I choose to misinterpret that as Unified Modelling Language < 1325504397 784241 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems EgoBot (but not hackego) switched to some home made umlbox that Gregor wrote < 1325504403 928270 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, user mode linux :P < 1325504404 428106 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just because that makes absolutely anything more insane < 1325504405 594092 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh cool, it's pretty active here. I was looking for some places about esoteric languages and the others I found so far seemed quite dead < 1325504410 916624 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ISTR there's some reason user mode language wouldn't work < 1325504417 476988 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Frooxius: the wiki is alive, but mostly with spambots < 1325504423 688977 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's probably the only other active esolang place, though < 1325504435 766364 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unified Modelling Linux. < 1325504439 473683 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Frooxius, only problem is that many of us tend to easily go off on unrelated tangents :P < 1325504448 361505 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a lot of off topic stuff in other words) < 1325504456 911636 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(usually interesting though) < 1325504463 461486 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that seems to happen everywhere :D < 1325504470 228153 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : and ISTR there's some reason user mode language wouldn't work <-- user mode language? < 1325504480 898694 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :spambots? Are they creating bogus pages or what? < 1325504482 106344 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: meh, just assume I'm drunk < 1325504486 25477 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Frooxius: they're spamming < 1325504489 800602 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not very surprising that people don't solely about a very narrow topic all the time < 1325504492 799660 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :for years. < 1325504492 964159 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's what spambots typically do < 1325504493 133255 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I just can't imagine you /ever/ being drunk < 1325504498 296146 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I'm not < 1325504498 963084 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it just doesn't fit into my head < 1325504502 291939 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/don't/don't talk/ < 1325504512 387322 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, have you ever been drunk? < 1325504512 554276 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but assuming it tends to simplify things, it's easier than trying to explain < 1325504516 85452 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so < 1325504519 154873 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1325504525 682225 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I meant more in what specific form the spamming takes, like if it's in the discussions or making wiki pages < 1325504529 960619 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used to drink alcohol slightly, but realised I didn't like it < 1325504532 301879 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Frooxius: mostly page creation < 1325504536 345142 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1325504536 511183 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :occasionally page replacement < 1325504616 206551 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, good point < 1325504638 535052 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was looking for a place where I can show my language, though I made more, but they share one common idea, though they're a bit different. Can I make multiple pages for each or merge them into one big page? < 1325504671 47862 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1325504673 97623 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :multiple pages is probably simplest < 1325504674 102998 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, btw which java IDE would you recommend? I'm probably not going to use it more than a few times. Just need something < 1325504680 285052 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1325504684 99444 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1325504688 771884 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1325504694 425348 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I've only seen NetBeans and Eclipse; NetBeans is better, although I strongly recommend you get someone else to package it < 1325504706 943934 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? < 1325504714 330762 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul ((spam )(SPAM ))(~:^Sa~^*a*~:^):^ < 1325504714 497050 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :SPAM spam SPAM spam spam SPAM spam spam spam SPAM spam spam spam spam SPAM spam spam spam spam spam SPAM spam spam spam spam spam spam SPAM spam spam spam spam spam spam spam SPAM spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam SPAM spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam SPAM spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam ...too much output! < 1325504714 664503 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, like using my distro to install it? < 1325504716 164697 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or what < 1325504722 753667 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes, like that < 1325504731 898230 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what if I need it on windows? < 1325504740 991845 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might actually need it on windows < 1325504748 121248 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it isn't just a theoretical question < 1325504754 520026 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't tried it on Windows myself, but I've heard that the installer is slightly insane < 1325504759 545171 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1325504794 886474 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, as long as it doesn't use ant to build I'm happy. < 1325504828 4612 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not actually sure what it uses to build, it abstracts that away from the user < 1325504835 542616 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1325504843 998676 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: It's all right to say "too much spam!" in cases like the above. < 1325504844 834012 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ouluthy atoll. on/ whole, as far as it went,/ sterility occurs in various degrees; in both, are much convoluted; but this is an important element in/ sterility :) many foreign plants; thus,/ flat or ventral surface faces/ axis or stem; but/ footstalks must have some natural origin. a wild scheme. < 1325504845 34 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it is sponsored by oracle it seems. Hrrm. < 1325504854 375265 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1325504854 542765 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin* discworld europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube < 1325504857 822986 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1325504877 481445 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what was the story behind the smilies now again? < 1325504893 993305 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Frooxius, btw that irc bot is written in befunge-98 (an esolang) < 1325504932 958465 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style iwcs < 1325504933 122860 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: iwcs (Irregular Webcomic scripts) < 1325504934 292778 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh cool :D That's ultimate esoterism! x3 < 1325504938 390034 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :^source < 1325504938 595309 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://git.zem.fi/fungot/blob/HEAD:/fungot.b98 < 1325504939 58446 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :there < 1325504941 949993 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, hm? < 1325504942 116596 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no, the boy, do i? are you sure the technology! < 1325504950 527722 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, doesn't sound like iwc to me yet < 1325504950 694641 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: the new king, you are dedicating yourself, does the allosaurus have a policy on death? i can just walk through the door to the secret dwarven passage, all the classics. dickens, austen, melville, wilde, hemingway. and of course jonson had never happened, quite frankly, from the sound of a hundred. in aramaic < 1325504956 494416 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well now it does < 1325504978 441809 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, does that model include the annotations? < 1325504994 567235 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Befunge is 2D language right? One that I'm working on is 2D as well, though works somewhat differently < 1325504999 7065 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it is < 1325505007 374888 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Frooxius, that is befunge-98, not befunge-93 < 1325505022 276143 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, sorry, I don't really know much about specific versions < 1325505030 168139 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :befunge-98 is much extended compared to the 93 version < 1325505038 323265 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, again? Okay, fungot's token-to-text code has a hardcoded list of punctuation for the first N (12 or so) tokens, same as the Perl script for training the models; unfortunately, the "remove tokens used less than K times" pruning phrase applied to those too, removing the smileys which Darwin did not use, causing the two most common non-punctuation tokens ("the", "of") get the integer indices of the two last punctuation tokens (":)", "/"). < 1325505038 488805 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: what, the ability to be captured a spanish galleon! arrr!! the frame is engulfed the galactic cup! they've all been targeted! < 1325505052 940599 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Frooxius: -98 and -93 are reasonably radically different < 1325505055 442921 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also there's some other punctuation mismatch going on, but that happens more rarely. < 1325505062 739802 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ah < 1325505075 178903 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, indeed < 1325505076 11031 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And no, it's just scripts; that's why it says "scripts" in the name. < 1325505079 911059 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1325505097 331160 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was an "iwca" set too, but it didn't work quite as well. < 1325505103 199711 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can imagine < 1325505107 144096 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, does the Befunge 98 have its own page on the wiki though? < 1325505124 582308 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nevermind, found its homepage < 1325505128 985790 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1325505131 491245 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's probably sorted under funge-98 < 1325505136 19909 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's a catseye language < 1325505147 664400 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and we tend to just link to catseye for those, rather than try to repeat the whole thing ourselves < 1325505171 106872 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey writes pretty good descriptions, and unlike most people, puts them on his own website rather than the wiki < 1325505181 835870 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Frooxius, if you plan to try to implement it speak with us first. The spec is terribly unclear and the behaviour of t is broken. So what people do is use Deewiant's test suite as a reference. < 1325505223 686303 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :No I mean, I'm implementing my own language < 1325505233 849451 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well sure, but just as a warning :P < 1325505235 797018 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is also 2D one < 1325505246 74556 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh okay < 1325505248 564996 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Frooxius, funge-98 actually comes in 1D, 2D and 3D variants < 1325505273 737622 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I'm reading its page now, it said something about generalization < 1325505277 943954 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :just the spec contradict itself once, is broken in another place and is terribly unclear in several places. < 1325505307 59397 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Frooxius, I believe fungot here runs on my befunge-98 implementation unless fizzie switched over < 1325505307 225394 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: sorry, i don't know what they're up! < 1325505328 279637 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's still cfunge. < 1325505330 689215 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1325505336 268195 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cool :3 < 1325505344 455102 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though probably quite an old version. < 1325505346 185992 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I guess you wouldn't actually gain that much from using ccbi2. < 1325505380 723764 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I recommend people to compile it with clang these days. There are some unresolved issues with gcc >4.5 and -O3 < 1325505390 568929 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not exactly computationally intensive, discounting people's ^bf/^ul stuff. < 1325505393 469986 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION should write an implementation for an esolang. < 1325505402 491612 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :from what I can tell it miscompiles, but picking out the relevant functions compiles it correctly < 1325505413 837807 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf +[]! I like to loop it, loop it. < 1325505416 570568 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, and I should write an esolang. I only ever implemented them < 1325505418 568654 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : ...out of time! < 1325505429 104429 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's 100k cycles, IIRC. < 1325505445 747862 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it could be worse. You could only design incredibly shitty esolangs. like me. :P < 1325505452 752445 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1325505453 85761 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :all of my good ideas never finish. < 1325505460 636157 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1325505483 694429 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is not a very disciplined individual. < 1325505491 178808 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, anyway once tup gets support for variants I'm going to ditch cmake and go for autoconf + tup < 1325505497 795209 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so just getting myself to finish all of the important things is difficult enough. :P < 1325505500 968862 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm working on that. < 1325505534 744542 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, which should provide some benefits, such as less broken handling of non-C files. < 1325505553 319534 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, that is one thing cmakes does get right: dependencies for C-files. < 1325505610 348177 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :my two language ideas involve an improvement to standard regex to make it turing complete (I wouldn't call it too esoteric as it's pretty normal) < 1325505625 251716 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, you know PCRE is turing complete for example? < 1325505654 217602 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the second idea is a sort of mix between graph rewriting and constraint/logic programming, with reversible semantics (basically it never deletes anything (unless I can come up with a sensible garbage collector but I doubt it)) < 1325505662 823573 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: oh, well yes. < 1325505667 485698 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean to make it more general purpose, rather. < 1325505671 910210 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1325505702 677928 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: tup still doesn't have variants? Dang. < 1325505703 343550 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, perl's regex are very general purpose, they permit embedding perl code to be executed at various points during the matching < 1325505719 989643 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well, I last checked like right before xmas. It /might/ have it now < 1325505726 738974 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: it reminds me of one reversible computing architecture i read about; it came with an actual physical bit bucket for when you really wanted to delete something :) < 1325505763 838167 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, but yeah what with all the build variants of cfunge that is what is holding me back from using it < 1325505774 138875 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I last checked a couple of months ago and thought it was on the top of the todo list :-P < 1325505791 457755 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1325505798 530844 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it was a bit down on the list < 1325505799 863960 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :since theoretically irreversibility is equivalent to heat production (landauer's principle) you'd want that to be physically expelled, i think < 1325505800 30613 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I am aware of all the different kinds of regex and what they can do. < 1325505800 195208 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1325505809 74106 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, /all/ of them? ;P < 1325505818 169929 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :He knows all the regex. All of them. < 1325505819 836680 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well... I'm a little poorly versed in POSIX regex < 1325505825 298278 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :mainly because I hate it. < 1325505827 966791 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, what about .NET regex? < 1325505845 386568 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've used it? does that count? < 1325505849 398238 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1325505854 229033 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, the java ones? < 1325505859 54770 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :haven't used those no. < 1325505860 554748 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :POSIX regex come in BREs and EREs, is what you need to know. < 1325505867 386050 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you use ERE < 1325505872 50083 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :because BRE are annoying < 1325505888 823062 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, doesn't plain grep use BRE iirc? < 1325505890 27929 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is BRE where you backslash everything? < 1325505900 599346 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(what emacs uses) < 1325505902 498189 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I hate that. < 1325505903 8210 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, egrep is ERE < 1325505906 606348 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :right. < 1325505907 106093 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It does, yes. < 1325505912 19540 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I think emacs might use something else < 1325505913 723881 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure < 1325505930 201135 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :emacs basically reverses the semantics of backslashes. < 1325505936 596983 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1325505937 430133 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Emacs is not strictly POSIX, IIRC. But it does involve a lot of backslashing. < 1325505941 862134 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Much like BREs. < 1325505944 530943 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1325505963 477152 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, also sed uses BRE right? < 1325505978 684280 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf >,[.>,]<[[<]>[.>]<]!I like to loop it, loop it. < 1325505978 848537 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like to loop it, loop it. I like to loop it, loop it. I like to loop it, loop it. I like to loop it, loop it. I like to loop it, loop it. I like to loop it, loop it. I like to loop it, loop it. I like to l ... < 1325505981 750313 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is why you do like s/aa*/... rather than s/a+/... < 1325505993 409413 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :vim has four forms: 'nomagic', 'magic', 'very magic', and 'very nomagic'. < 1325505997 906315 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1325506000 69341 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, hah < 1325506003 531191 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, what do they mean? < 1325506022 314714 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... I'm a bit confused about the page creation though. My languages are designed for their own, also somewhat esoteric processing units (there's an emulator - virtual machine and also FPGA soft-core implementation, though not published yet, but it will be later). Should I make a page named after the processing unit or the language? Or maybe both, like "Unit - Language"? < 1325506033 390909 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes I was considering having a way to basically delete nodes so that you can manage memory. < 1325506038 428961 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :'magic' is the default and is quite similar to BRE, I think. < 1325506042 801887 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Frooxius, verilog or vhdl? < 1325506048 628250 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :VHDL < 1325506051 125432 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1325506055 651092 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might be able to read it then < 1325506058 651753 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that is cool < 1325506064 204322 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that you implemented that) < 1325506084 459437 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :'nomagic' seems to change only . and *, so that they need to be escaped if you want their special behaviour. < 1325506089 312733 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :also that question is best to ask ais523 < 1325506119 524464 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, heh, and the very variants? < 1325506125 356293 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Frooxius: page should be named after the language < 1325506138 853895 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh ok, thanks < 1325506139 752813 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure to what extent it's going to be full graph rewriting. i.e. I don't want rewriting large subgraphs to be the main means of computation since that's really inefficient. < 1325506142 830205 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the language has only one specific purpose, explain what it is on the page < 1325506152 564723 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :'very magic' is like ERE, I guess: every character with a special behaviour uses it by default, and you need to escape it to match the literal character. < 1325506155 395470 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1325506168 139202 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, and very nomagic? < 1325506175 429269 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :And 'very nomagic' is the converse: only backslash has a special behaviour. < 1325506176 638734 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :The language is tied a lot though to the processing unit architecture < 1325506188 165618 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1325506196 1322 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I can't really see this language being efficient at all, considering how it works. < 1325506199 345932 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I want it to run in hardware. Yesterday, I was simulating 128 cores on my laptop. It ran 30 kHz (simulated) x3 < 1325506204 995372 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Frooxius, are there several languages for the same processing unit? < 1325506212 267130 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not yet < 1325506215 339831 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1325506236 173636 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :also 128 cores, is it some sort of massively parallel esolang? < 1325506241 783922 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't remember seeing any of those before < 1325506246 873944 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :essentially it works something like this: constraint | pattern -> rewrite < 1325506254 763498 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait, wasn't there one that ais523 claimed would be good on GPUs? < 1325506287 896885 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, it can automatically distributes the work on several cores, though it depends on the algorithm and how many cores are available < 1325506289 276597 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Checkout's basically eso by virtue of being too low-level < 1325506289 441229 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :each computation step produces a copied state of the graph, which each new node pointing to its predecessor(s) via a "past edge", which makes it possible to revert past edges. < 1325506297 438018 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/which/with. < 1325506301 718302 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not really an esolang designed for GPUs, more a description of how GPUs worked converted to esolang form < 1325506305 592241 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/\./\// < 1325506318 829371 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, do they still work that way? < 1325506329 790140 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume so < 1325506332 997450 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless it's changed in the last year < 1325506340 65654 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is possible, I guess, but seems moderately unlikely < 1325506350 699815 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I made huge block of instructions and then ran simulation just for fun on 128 cores |3 < 1325506368 387551 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thinks he's probably going to implement the graph lang in Haskell because why not. < 1325506402 58954 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm I'm missing an FMA instruction. I think most GPUs have them < 1325506423 164998 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I made some tests and if I make a simple algorithm, that's about 20 instructions and run it with one core, it takes 40 cycles to complete with one core and only 12 cycles with four cores. < 1325506430 794286 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, while producing same result < 1325506434 573003 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, but yes, it matches what I know about GPUs pretty much < 1325506443 139467 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I'm not sure about the selection of instructions < 1325506452 606665 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :selection of instructions was mostly a guess < 1325506494 953823 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and you don't seem to represent there being some hard coded functionality still left. Like dedicated linear interpolation circuitry or texture lookup units < 1325506510 387933 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :It supports parallelism, but it's not so massive parallel like GPUs are < 1325506524 650777 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes, it doesn't allow for hardcoded highlevel stuff < 1325506526 878590 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's very low-level < 1325506532 631853 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it /does/ allow for texture lookup; that's what rocopy is for < 1325506534 367244 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is also going to BREAK THE MINDS OF ALL PROGRAMMERS EVER by making & and | the boolean logical operators because this makes way more sense than && and || < 1325506535 318168 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Frooxius, I look forward to seeing this language < 1325506538 766427 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah. < 1325506559 203730 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, with texture interpolation? < 1325506562 618966 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1325506571 191034 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm that is like the key feature of textures to me < 1325506579 59151 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1325506597 163704 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I haven't used OpenCL so for all I know it might match that < 1325506600 496015 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mostly used GLSL < 1325506758 873581 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1325506786 970931 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, is abstain/1 like in intercal? < 1325506881 414284 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's more like computed abstain forced at 1, then regular abstain < 1325506884 657127 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and still more like an if statement < 1325506888 877794 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1325506892 152920 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's basically the same as an if except for timing < 1325506943 907168 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, iirc real GPUs tend to execute the same code on all processing elements in a given core, just throw away any results that wasn't actually taken by the given processing eleme nt < 1325506946 900957 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :element* < 1325506967 496152 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: indeed < 1325506971 409470 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what I'm getting at with abstain < 1325506975 82760 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1325506982 429975 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the code has to be executed, it's just that it can ignore what it does < 1325506989 131172 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1325507024 903519 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, where do you handle that for loops? I do believe GLSL allows different loops to take a different number of iterations < 1325507038 26795 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :err that is < 1325507045 391383 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1325507045 724093 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :the same loop on different processing elements < 1325507054 765488 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you just abstain the last few times < 1325507058 649155 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it'd have to cap it to the maximum number of iterations < 1325507068 335313 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yeah < 1325507079 126268 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, all sane GPU programming would make a loop have the same number of iterations for the entire weave < 1325507090 68720 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes < 1325507097 989825 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, not sure what you mean by weave here < 1325507112 874860 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's a technical GPU term < 1325507116 410311 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as is half-weave < 1325507121 898574 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does it mean though? < 1325507127 63260 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, a half-weave is the number of actual commands that run simultaneously on one processing element < 1325507130 782796 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1325507137 230290 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a weave is the number of commands that /effectively/ run simultaneously < 1325507140 935359 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1325507144 538950 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because there's a 1-cycle pipelining delay < 1325507181 729401 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually I could do something TOTALLY CRAZY < 1325507193 766653 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the rule is that weaves give you perfect simultaneity, and that you need to synchronize things like memory accesses within a half-weave to get the best results < 1325507199 510204 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and make v and ^ for logical conjunction/disjunction < 1325507202 216149 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm < 1325507215 62080 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, but these details seems to be hidden from you when you are writing GLSL? < 1325507215 402796 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: nah, use Unicode < 1325507220 608656 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: right, indeed < 1325507224 745465 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :GLSL is rather higher level than OpenCL < 1325507226 334981 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I can't type Unicode quickly. :P < 1325507230 497910 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah. < 1325507238 122819 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I want to avoid opencl then? < 1325507248 374419 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that stuff sounds annoying < 1325507275 135523 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I just noticed "avoid if when at all possible" seemed to work pretty well for glsl < 1325507293 15406 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well, it depends on what you're writing the code /for/ < 1325507302 233979 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want to write vertex and fragment shaders, glsl is a pretty good choice < 1325507309 501131 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also does anyone actually use the geometry shader? < 1325507315 631091 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't seem to perform well at all < 1325507322 657761 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think using Haskell's list monad will make the logic programming stuff much easier. < 1325507332 173566 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want to write bitcoin mining code, you're probably better off with opencl < 1325507338 71124 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, right < 1325507338 737990 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I'm not sure; they're a comparatively new thing < 1325507348 478902 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm not entirely up-to-date on what they actually do < 1325507377 784509 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and if you want to use the GPU to accelerate image manipulation? I know hugin uses GLSL for it, but is it actually the best choice? < 1325507403 526016 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : but I can't type Unicode quickly. :P <-- I can. Try M-x set-input-method RET TeX RET < 1325507411 853179 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is awesome < 1325507429 481573 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if I don't know TeX though? :P < 1325507429 814771 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: hmm, I'm not sure < 1325507435 208946 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly depends on what manipulation you're doing < 1325507436 269691 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, you need to learn it < 1325507453 357457 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :main advantage of something like opencl is that you could make sure that memory was being loaded in an optimal way < 1325507454 197691 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well in the case of hugin, mapping flat images into whatever shape it needs to be for merging in a panorama < 1325507459 814555 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't use it for the actual merging < 1325507465 145592 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :just the bending of the input images < 1325507482 675297 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you might want to use the texture units there < 1325507496 339775 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :to get interpolation when there wasn't a 1:1 map for the pixels (the usual case) < 1325507510 99328 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you access the texture units from opencl? < 1325507636 479102 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, it's called "constant memory" < 1325507652 729339 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, but can you get the interpolation then? < 1325507674 403624 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure; my guess is it'd involve a nonstandard but nonetheless common extension < 1325507678 702764 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1325507871 710481 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay, now I see why they say Haskell's type system is like a mini-Prolog. < 1325507971 119271 :derdon!~derdon@p5DE8BC89.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325508005 576237 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-4-250.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1325508005 742770 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-4-250.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1325508005 907067 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1325508074 959616 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1325508109 825756 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu < 1325508339 716371 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, btw does opencl have built in noise functions? < 1325508352 588284 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, glsl does but most GPUs just return 0 on them < 1325508357 633003 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't have too much built in stuff < 1325508358 131721 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :which makes them effectively useless < 1325508373 305055 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's one of those languages which is bare-bones and expects people to write libraries for it < 1325508399 453734 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and with most I mean all but one card series which I believe is nowdays discontinued < 1325508411 958446 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(some 3dfx thingy iirc) < 1325508509 317988 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logical_consequence < 1325508511 731745 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really see < 1325508528 613586 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what makes this different from implication over the conjunction of every element in the set... < 1325508578 45553 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, GLSL kind of reminds me of NQC. NQC is a C-like language for the Lego Mindstorms standard firmware. It had lots of useful domain-specific functions and not much else. < 1325508581 421909 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :like why does it get its own name, basically. < 1325508843 696506 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let entails :: [Bool] -> Bool -> Bool; entails ss s = not (and ss && not s) in entails [2 < 4, 2 > 0] (2 == 3) < 1325508844 696193 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : False < 1325508973 44367 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let entails :: [Bool] -> Bool -> Bool; entails ss s = not (and ss) || s in entails [2 < 4, 2 > 0] (2 == 2) < 1325508974 43654 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : True < 1325508976 67711 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :much better < 1325509065 478728 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :De Morgan's laws to the rescue. < 1325509095 332913 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow what a strange texture format: floating point, 9 bits of precision, shared exponent. GL_RGB9_E5 < 1325509107 974924 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so 5 bits of exponent I think? < 1325509125 637660 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :three 9s are 27, plus 5 is 32 < 1325509128 877691 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1325509131 916973 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it packs neatly < 1325509134 275282 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, still it is a pretty strange format < 1325509183 690748 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is also GL_R11F_G11F_B10F < 1325509188 22023 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :those floats lack sign bits < 1325509196 896228 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the blue one has less precision < 1325509197 896749 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :why < 1325509214 863100 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that it'd sum up to 32. < 1325509228 236325 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And why would you need negative numbers in a texture? < 1325509239 15208 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1325509255 533521 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, still it is a strange format with less precision in blue < 1325509268 270191 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: there are a bunch of asymmetrical pixel formats like that < 1325509273 603733 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1325509274 439628 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's quite a common 556 one, for instance < 1325509281 578856 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1325509281 744955 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's based on what the eyes are best at distinguishing < 1325509288 69503 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought that was 5-6-5 with 6 on green, most commonly. < 1325509301 387757 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not in opengl as far as I can find < 1325509312 23314 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I'm not sure what order it's in, but 6 on green is entirely believable < 1325509318 789026 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is 3-3-2 (integer) for example < 1325509334 203402 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :normalized integer even < 1325509336 926224 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what on earth would a 2-bit float be like anyway? < 1325509338 93507 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure what that is < 1325509359 534420 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even sillier, a 1-bit float < 1325509365 406426 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1325509484 25233 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The old OpenGL glTexImage2D man page I have here lists GL_UNSIGNED_SHORT_5_6_5 for the external format. < 1325509513 969488 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@ip-85-161-151-33.eurotel.cz JOIN :#esoteric < 1325509536 383466 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also the 4_4_4_4 all-four-bit RGBA, and the 5551 "I guess we can spare a single bit for an alpha channel" formats. < 1325509541 89207 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the 10_10_10_2. < 1325509569 900442 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was mostly looking at floating point formats < 1325509589 868057 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but sure I can find all of those apart from 565 < 1325509617 205133 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: does 5551 have 128 shades of colour, and 128 shades of transparent? < 1325509621 78131 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that seems a little weird < 1325509647 68398 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, hmm, you could define transparent white as actual transparent < 1325509647 940298 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@ip-85-161-151-33.eurotel.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :just two shades of transparent? < 1325509658 647632 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and have a fixed arbitrary value for the alpha as the other value < 1325509671 573764 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: 128? 5+5+5 is 15 bits. < 1325509674 475305 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Frooxius: it's not Either Transparent (Word5,Word5,Word5) < 1325509681 645682 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's (Word5,Word5,Word5,Boolean) < 1325509683 312988 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: err, right < 1325509689 393425 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :32768 < 1325509738 186950 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Your list is probably for the internal color formats, which might not have a 565 one. < 1325509767 753110 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it probably is, I'm looking on the opengl wiki < 1325509772 847096 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrt texture formats < 1325509779 927497 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :image formats even < 1325509793 885155 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm why does Prolog only allow horn clauses.. < 1325509801 164420 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@ip-85-161-151-33.eurotel.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what? I know three word5 and a boolean but what does the boolean mean? You use the first three to store the color and boolean to determine two levels of transparency? < 1325509819 491337 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's 5 + 5 + 5 + 1, right? < 1325509821 703145 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 bit is a boolean < 1325509835 608983 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my point is that once you've set the alpha channel to transparent, you still have 15 bits of color < 1325509843 483690 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, iirc they are easy to compute? < 1325509850 508597 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lame < 1325509853 350 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that you're just wasting, because different shades of totally transparent are visually indistinguishable < 1325509856 118256 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@ip-85-161-151-33.eurotel.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but why have 15 bits of color? < 1325509866 606179 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, like always possible to find an answer to < 1325509867 606665 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Frooxius: so if it's not transparent, then you can have colors < 1325509875 253963 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, unlike some other forms < 1325509875 920781 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@ip-85-161-151-33.eurotel.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that's what's bothering me as well < 1325509878 586318 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we have 32769 useful possibilities out of 65536 here < 1325509878 752494 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that is all iirc < 1325509882 954807 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Retaining color values even in fully transparent regions might still make sense; it's not like it's rendered as-is always. < 1325509887 67053 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was suggesting that perhaps the format should do something with the other 32767 < 1325509892 187697 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@ip-85-161-151-33.eurotel.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the bit means that it's completely transparent then the color doesn't matter that much < 1325509900 424285 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: oh, indeed, and many graphics packages have an option to do just that < 1325509931 453141 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well you might want to use it for something else. It is not like the pipeline is fixed < 1325509958 806870 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@ip-85-161-151-33.eurotel.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about to store first some bitmap (literally map of booleans) that determine transparency and then store ONLY visible pixels, that is ,the transparent ones will be skipped. If you want to save space < 1325509959 139995 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, if you're using it for something else, why are you putting an RGBA meaning on it anyway? < 1325509969 999638 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Frooxius: that'd be hell on a GPU's memory model < 1325509975 395371 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a compression format, not an in-memory graphics format < 1325509989 844181 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@ip-85-161-151-33.eurotel.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, sorry, I didn't know you were talking about in-memory < 1325510005 446073 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@ip-85-161-151-33.eurotel.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I kind of popped in the middle of discussion x3 < 1325510020 842830 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :They have those weirdo in-memory compressed texture formats too. < 1325510036 506263 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :S3TC and whatever. < 1325510039 5156 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1325510075 9508 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@ip-85-161-151-33.eurotel.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, though the one I mentioned can't be easily accessed, in order to find a pixel by its x and y position, you would have to scan the bit-alpha map first < 1325510076 861310 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : well, if you're using it for something else, why are you putting an RGBA meaning on it anyway? <-- because that isn't what you do, those are just names assigned to the specific channels < 1325510087 756844 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you could just call them xyzw or 0123 < 1325510159 865135 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I used textures for other stuff than images. Like a height map that I then used in the geometry shader. < 1325510173 540475 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well, indeed, that's the point < 1325510186 215083 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just not convinced that splitting into 5+5+5+1 format is useful for nonimages < 1325510187 381397 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@ip-85-161-151-33.eurotel.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... though I understand the feeling. I was designing an opcode and I needed to encode 5 directions, but I had to use 3 bits for that and I still have 3 variations undefined... and it keeps bothering me and I keep thinking of how can I use them |3 < 1325510187 880511 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it ended up in the red channel < 1325510197 374121 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1325510235 179207 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Frooxius, just draw a whatever-those-diagrams were called. < 1325510243 741556 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you calculate the gates by hand < 1325510249 593326 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@ip-85-161-151-33.eurotel.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Karnagaugh maps? < 1325510251 962975 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@ip-85-161-151-33.eurotel.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something like that < 1325510252 497565 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yeah < 1325510254 501915 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :those < 1325510259 215691 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think my esolang will work with any kind of boolean statement since there's no logical implication involved (i.e. nothing like Prolog's :- ) < 1325510260 663607 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@ip-85-161-151-33.eurotel.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that's something different. < 1325510264 496518 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Well, you *do* get a RGB555 image plus a mask bitmap in the same "thing". You could use it for the "can fly through" mask for a cave-flying game. < 1325510278 180624 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Frooxius, well you could work out what sort of opcode encoding would give you the least number of gates :D < 1325510280 930663 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :red/green/blue/collidable? I suppose that makes sense < 1325510288 265344 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@ip-85-161-151-33.eurotel.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm talking about assigning the bits meanings < 1325510292 602324 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking about that myself, and decided that collidable often needs more than one bit < 1325510302 658681 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :how so? < 1325510306 203572 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the implications are state transitions, rather than logical statements. < 1325510332 411986 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@ip-85-161-151-33.eurotel.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the variations, if I have 3 bits, to store 5 states and other 3 are undefined < 1325510336 165624 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Frooxius, indeed, but I mean you should check which assignment of the bits give the simplest logic < 1325510357 416793 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: to determine what happens on collision < 1325510359 961520 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think at least one cave-flyer had a strictly black-and-white mask bitmap, albeit stored in a separate file. (Though some I recall having more complicated formats, for things that can explode/be set on fire/whatever.) < 1325510364 846462 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, game over :P < 1325510366 212768 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@ip-85-161-151-33.eurotel.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :the logic is simple, I mean, decoding it < 1325510392 533708 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@ip-85-161-151-33.eurotel.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a simple straightforward way < 1325510394 367382 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well, I'm used to games with collisions having multiple sorts of collisions < 1325510398 906500 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Frooxius, come on, if you ever want to implement it in TTL logic and wire wrapping you could save yourself a lot of work by making the logic required simple :P < 1325510404 411710 :mr_schlauch!threeohthr@wololo.at.freebnc.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1325510407 951396 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. in platformers, often you take damage hitting enemies from the sides, but not from above < 1325510430 584164 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@ip-85-161-151-33.eurotel.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm implementing it on FPGA < 1325510433 94557 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, not sure you would store that in the image format anyway < 1325510444 435451 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Frooxius, well sure, but what if you want to do it old school in the future? < 1325510452 353511 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: The RGB10_A2 format gives you four types. < 1325510467 244741 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@ip-85-161-151-33.eurotel.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well I already saved myself a lot of work < 1325510470 922180 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1325510490 403783 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@ip-85-161-151-33.eurotel.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the way it's designed, I can use exactly same decoding on these 5 states as with another form of encoding, which uses 30 variations < 1325510503 346315 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: also, you just use two layers of n-input NANDs < 1325510508 220918 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@ip-85-161-151-33.eurotel.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I can use same logic to decode both. < 1325510518 916079 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to efficiently implement any truth table with TTL logic and wire-wrapping < 1325510523 913549 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1325510527 952863 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :efficiently in terms of time < 1325510540 166622 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :can be inefficient in terms of logic size in some cases < 1325510556 448837 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@ip-85-161-151-33.eurotel.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's not much of a truth table, it basically corresponds to numeric base 5 < 1325510570 803564 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, if you have like 4 in-signals and you can arrange the values so that they are groupable in a kaurnaugh diagram you save yourself some wires < 1325510581 383343 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :as well as gates < 1325510593 20767 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the problem's small enough to K-map it < 1325510601 781340 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you're probably not going to run out of gates anyway < 1325510606 121825 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1325510616 99375 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@ip-85-161-151-33.eurotel.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno if I would do it old school way though. It would be too large anyway < 1325510619 766229 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who is this Frooxius person? < 1325510621 346862 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, that S3TC/DXT1 format is the fanciest. Each 4x4 pixel block is stored as two RGB565 (there's the 565 again...) color values, color0 and color1, followed by a 32-bit integer holding two bits per pixel in the block; each pixel is either color0 (bits 00), color1 (bits 01), (2*color0+color1)/3 (bits 10, color0 > color1), (color0+color1)/2 (bits 10, color0 <= color1), (color0 + 2*color1)/3 (bits 11, color0 > color1) or black (bits 11, color0 <= color1). < 1325510634 813444 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, but even for larger problems you could still save some gates. < 1325510643 943037 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though it might be more work figuring out how < 1325510671 765671 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also it's Karnaugh, not "Karnagaugh" or "kaurnaugh". < 1325510676 107336 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1325510702 379693 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@ip-85-161-151-33.eurotel.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I don't remember how to spell it in English < 1325510729 403163 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the guy's name, you don't spell it any differently in any other language. < 1325510765 667346 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@ip-85-161-151-33.eurotel.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :We spell some names a bit differently in our language < 1325510777 173261 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :How impolite. < 1325510784 470710 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like everyone has to call SOMs "Kohonen maps" no matter how stupid they think it sounds. < 1325510785 303688 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@ip-85-161-151-33.eurotel.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1325510806 46976 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@ip-85-161-151-33.eurotel.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not THAT different, I don't really remember how to spell his name < 1325510827 408579 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@ip-85-161-151-33.eurotel.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember all the names < 1325510831 360774 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, the names of the ancient greeks tend to be spelled differently in different languages though < 1325510853 375617 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I guess there's some variation allowed when the alphabet differs. < 1325510891 727121 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@ip-85-161-151-33.eurotel.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plus our language has modifiers. If I were to spell your name in some conjunction in my language, it would be "fizziovy mapy" < 1325510898 198353 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@ip-85-161-151-33.eurotel.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's due to the grammar. < 1325510913 955938 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@ip-85-161-151-33.eurotel.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most nouns are modified and have many variants < 1325510923 422737 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@ip-85-161-151-33.eurotel.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Otherwise it would sound... REALLY weird < 1325510944 888158 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@ip-85-161-151-33.eurotel.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :usually only the ending portion of the name is modified though < 1325510975 593285 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :which language is that? < 1325510978 861092 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finnish is a very inflectional language too, and admittedly we add a suffix to Karnaugh; it's just that generally I think everyone's name should be spelled the way they want it. < 1325511003 169771 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@ip-85-161-151-33.eurotel.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Czech < 1325511005 94702 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1325511021 909064 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sadly the name isn't Finnish-enough looking, so we have to call it "Karnaugh'n kartta" with an apostrophe. < 1325511041 73930 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Swedish we don't generally modify names beyond the "belongs to"-suffix. Because plural and definite form suffixes doesn't make sense on names < 1325511048 115597 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I guess plural might < 1325511051 375551 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@ip-85-161-151-33.eurotel.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that Karnaugh has only suffix, but sometimes last one or two letters are modified as well < 1325511061 542973 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :for family names < 1325511087 818709 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :We've got 15 noun cases, and many of them make sense for names. < 1325511093 187614 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@ip-85-161-151-33.eurotel.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean... I just don't remember how exactly to spell his name, that's why I added "or something like that" < 1325511093 520744 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, strangely enough it is called Karnaughdiagram in Swedish, not Karnaughkarta < 1325511115 309881 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's not a "map"-map all geography-like. < 1325511125 357733 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1325511129 364837 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@ip-85-161-151-33.eurotel.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's called map in my language < 1325511140 524966 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@ip-85-161-151-33.eurotel.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :well "mapa" < 1325511150 678396 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's called map in Finnish too, but "diagram" makes equally much, if not more, sense. < 1325511153 577260 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoops, it's bank-time. -> < 1325511153 742592 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@ip-85-161-151-33.eurotel.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that one doesnt mean just geography map < 1325511276 915014 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@ip-85-161-151-33.eurotel.cz QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1325511363 258439 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@85.162.137.141 JOIN :#esoteric < 1325511377 446379 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@85.162.137.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops, sorry, broadband connection (EDGE) x3 < 1325511390 19993 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@85.162.137.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a bad signal here < 1325511411 728603 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@85.162.137.141 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1325511411 931052 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Book_from_the_Sky < 1325511428 402023 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@85.162.137.141 JOIN :#esoteric < 1325511440 305626 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@85.162.137.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aaaarg, bad connection again < 1325511451 259638 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@85.162.137.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :regarding the 5551 though... what if the last bit activates some transparency mode, where the first 15 bits get reallocated like 4443 - RGBA, that is 4 bits for every color channel (so the color resolution lowers a bit) and 8 levels of transparency < 1325511540 404514 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :forget my link.. awesome topic.. i need to scroll up on this one i think < 1325511544 150747 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :color formats < 1325511577 744876 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds slightly complicated, though certainly possible. Also, 9 levels when you count the non-transparent case. < 1325511580 199025 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2011/104/0/8/nyan_cat_timelapse_by_kingaby-d3dygfa.jpg < 1325511589 414854 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess they could do some huffman encoding of images kind of < 1325511610 627292 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like.. determining the probability rates of color neighbourhoods < 1325511610 833934 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :jpeg uses these fancy things called wavelets. < 1325511616 377995 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@85.162.137.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yaaay DA, did you make that kallisti? < 1325511624 44121 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Frooxius: not at all < 1325511650 126491 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want to call DCT a wavelet transformation... < 1325511703 268501 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was under the impression that the JPEG2000 nobody uses does actual wavelets, though. < 1325511704 850724 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like .,.. if middle pixel is FF0000, then topleft pixel is a% likely to be 000000, b% likely to be 000001, c% likely to be 000002... hsahss% likely to be FFFFFF < 1325511723 625967 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@85.162.137.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, that reminds me of this joke I made http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2011/338/5/f/eight_gigabytes_of_ram_by_frooxius-d4i5698.png :3 < 1325511743 771711 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: oh yes that's the one I was thinking of. < 1325511744 938657 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@85.162.137.141 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1325511760 333678 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@85.162.137.141 JOIN :#esoteric < 1325511768 583397 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@85.162.137.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh again < 1325511771 114687 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@85.162.137.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, that reminds me of this joke I made http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2011/338/5/f/eight_gigabytes_of_ram_by_frooxius-d4i5698.png :3 < 1325511791 961464 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that got through the first time < 1325511808 367729 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Offhand I wouldn't be surprised if you could mathematically speaking describe DCT as a wavelet transformation with the right sort of really boring basis functions. < 1325511811 946093 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@85.162.137.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh cool, sorry, I lost connection immediately after sending that, so I wasn't sure < 1325511814 780506 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and on the basis of these %'s, you could map the bits of the neighbouring pixels somehow < 1325511850 646769 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<-- sort of dumb, sort of smart, both at same time < 1325511858 868912 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :OpenGL doesn't do Amiga's HAM formats. :/ < 1325511877 147795 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, back out to the snow. -> < 1325511878 481539 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what were those? < 1325511880 893117 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well < 1325511897 936152 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hold And Modify, the pixels depend on neighbors. < 1325511916 214236 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You get more colors but it's difficult to do sharp edges. < 1325511941 360891 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ahh.. so i had a nice idea but its done long ago eh? < 1325511947 536907 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@85.162.137.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually here's link to the DA page, not direct to image http://frooxius.deviantart.com/art/Eight-Gigabytes-Of-RAM-272339180 Dunno why I linked that < 1325511975 413223 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything has already been done :P < 1325511981 460476 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :criuudhwudihewuidhwe uidhweuidh ewuidhewuihduiew dhwuih diuhw diuhw iudh iuwehdiuhweiudhweuihdiuwhduiwdwe < 1325512005 416768 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log fuck fuck fuck < 1325512034 84454 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2007-02-11.txt:01:49:58: fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck < 1325512068 661218 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's okay I accidentally invented FRP. < 1325512081 985967 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastlog wtf < 1325512100 519910 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2009-11-19.txt:04:38:00: WTF! < 1325512100 685514 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: oh cool < 1325512104 432942 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastlog wtf < 1325512118 730112 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2007-05-01.txt:00:19:54: but WTF does the group have that effect on me? < 1325512133 305795 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow.. simonrc is popular in these logs < 1325512178 533657 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, obviously if you search for swearwords you're going to get people who swear more < 1325512190 41623 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastlog motherfucker < 1325512194 627137 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1325512197 456313 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders about the chance of no results < 1325512199 119819 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-01-18.txt:20:41:14: Jeb did it, motherfucker. < 1325512208 276698 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, no, there was at least one < 1325512233 290320 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastlog motherfucker < 1325512240 410162 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-03-22.txt:23:54:58: http://programming-motherfucker.com/ < 1325512273 86076 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastlog Feather < 1325512275 962006 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I went /there/ < 1325512280 695458 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2008-08-23.txt:17:41:11: ais523, feather? < 1325512292 99138 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@85.162.137.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION bubbles < 1325512309 702891 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1325512322 136454 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: well.. yes i feel proud that i just described HAM (in my poorly worded kind of way).. it is a testament to my comprehension of pixels < 1325512348 358156 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, esoteric idea: image format that's neither raster nor vector < 1325512360 649873 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, what other possibilities are there? < 1325512362 483908 :nooga!~nooga@c35-253.icpnet.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1325512390 697401 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@85.162.137.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some language to describe the image algorithmically? < 1325512392 696173 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION laughs. < 1325512405 340994 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Frooxius: hmm, I was wondering along those lines too < 1325512407 216076 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry had to laugh < 1325512420 967907 :azaq231!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1325512426 812767 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not as an insult < 1325512429 17223 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@85.162.137.141 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1325512433 355075 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, just because someone had to < 1325512438 430496 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1325512475 303828 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: my way of approaching this kind of problem would be to look for the generalization < 1325512485 129029 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and make another child from it < 1325512498 339777 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, right < 1325512499 385199 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@85.162.137.141 JOIN :#esoteric < 1325512501 384795 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@85.162.137.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate this connection >.< < 1325512505 387881 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@85.162.137.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some language to describe the image algorithmically? < 1325512508 96058 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@85.162.137.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they actually used something like that for one (or possibly more) game that they squeezed to 100 kB or so. They actually stored all textures and such algorithmically < 1325512521 780911 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, vector and raster would be, children of some parent < 1325512552 913714 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :humm < 1325512569 660942 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@85.162.137.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So the game took like... ages to load, because it needed to render all the stuff |3 < 1325512573 869789 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ok ok.. heres one idea i had once < 1325512589 179622 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :an 8x4 monochrome display... < 1325512600 214710 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's see… raster images are a bit like an imperative description of what to draw to the screen < 1325512601 716562 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the video memory consists of a single 32 bit integer < 1325512602 754546 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as is, say, RLE images < 1325512618 64058 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :more complicated compression schemes are more like an OO description < 1325512638 592573 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and vector images are a bit like a declarative description, if you consider "what to draw to the screen" to be a rasterisation < 1325512649 749822 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, hmm, what else is left? < 1325512669 27351 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm.. its too hot and im too hungry for this lovely topic wuaahhh < 1325512695 177181 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly, we need constraint-based images < 1325512728 60203 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i am primarily interested in graphics < 1325512734 639984 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have tried to figure some stuff out before < 1325512741 265848 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one idea i had once was.... < 1325512743 359136 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that < 1325512774 555038 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :an image which has only 1 colour, can be stretched and shrunken without affecting it at all < 1325512843 812908 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, not true for raster images, surely? < 1325512854 774301 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's 100x100, and you stretch it to 150x150 < 1325512858 523480 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you can't roundtrip it back to100x100 < 1325512861 107206 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*to 100x100 < 1325512866 283021 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, you mean solid color, I see < 1325512869 994763 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ya < 1325512937 134781 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i applied myself to thinking about graphics in the past but never really got far < 1325512945 667070 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that was one idea i realized < 1325513002 947927 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : it's still not an excuse for a modern os to ship without a ssh client or with a telnet client < 1325513013 74707 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ for all the people who just wouldn't believe me when I told them I knew an ssh fanboy < 1325513029 862559 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@85.162.137.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, but 1 solid color is not much of an image < 1325513044 314060 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@85.162.137.141 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1325513063 566170 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and on the spur of the moment i just descrbed a way that a set of images can be optimized for hold and modify without having heard of hold and modify before.. so i feel pretty accomplished from that < 1325513098 629639 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually i think i have heard of it.. < 1325513106 108704 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in an old edition of computer and video games < 1325513117 649260 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i think the article just said the prorgammers used some clever tricks < 1325513138 143193 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe its an unconcious uhm < 1325513147 155205 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unconcious plagiarism < 1325513183 69334 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh i sure ramble < 1325513283 831732 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@85.162.235.110 JOIN :#esoteric < 1325513315 285813 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@85.162.235.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lost signal again >.< < 1325513504 17322 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i... i saved a document by accident.. and lost all the images inside it < 1325513506 223890 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oy vey < 1325513645 650458 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kkrieger <- game you're thinking of (probably) < 1325513696 564330 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :beats myself around the head with imaginary baseball bat < 1325513802 221069 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Textures are stored via their creation history instead of a per-pixel basis" .. interesting < 1325513821 516793 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi: maybe i was not actually thinking of ham at all < 1325513824 183711 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, an interesting optimization task anyway < 1325513832 759944 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ham what < 1325513836 275390 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was some scifi game in an old magazine < 1325513836 940877 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want a ham sandwich! < 1325513837 775064 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1325513850 675430 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it said that the programmers used some tricks to get more colours < 1325513875 761749 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah no, i was referring to frooxius's comment < 1325513881 816360 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kkreiger is probably the game he was talking about < 1325513889 813696 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :who was? < 1325513899 386393 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Frooxius> I think they actually used something like that for one (or possibly more) game that they squeezed to 100 kB or so. They actually stored all textures and such algorithmically < 1325513912 959357 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :demoscene dudes are pretty cool :) < 1325513938 162469 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a file went bad in open office < 1325513941 661215 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I read recently that there were some people developing an esolang-like language for golfing demos < 1325513946 599683 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i did repair but repair didnt go well < 1325513969 617408 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :when i tried to save it.. i did so without thinking and overwrote it < 1325513980 622458 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@85.162.235.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh my graviton < 1325513989 538941 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't really matter.. i retained all the text, but i had some silly images < 1325513998 453883 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the images gave this file character < 1325514011 406024 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@85.162.235.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The connection... O.e I got no messages for a few minutes and then BAM! a few dozen messages at once x3 < 1325514042 20326 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you got three copies? < 1325514045 25654 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i put a lot of work into my little documents.. i need to be more careful < 1325514046 62178 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, interesting < 1325514060 977534 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@85.162.235.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't recall name of that 100 kB game, though I can look it up < 1325514068 767799 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i played the 96kb game < 1325514072 733783 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Frooxius: kkreiger < 1325514077 725530 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325514081 264111 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :good stuff < 1325514081 428522 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1325514088 142760 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@85.162.235.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I think that's the one < 1325514098 815391 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :though it was an entry in a demo party < 1325514107 818518 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just the most notable one people seem to have heard of :) < 1325514130 823185 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, you're the one with a cyborg account, right? < 1325514134 276140 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :kkrieger* < 1325514141 522021 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :^celebrate < 1325514141 686885 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : \o| |o| |o/ \m/ \m/ |o/ \o/ \o| \m/ \m/ \o| |o| |o/ < 1325514142 354745 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :69  |   |   |    `\o/´69    |   |   |    `\o/´69    |   |   | < 1325514142 521403 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :69 /´\  >\ /|      |     /´\ /|   |\     |     /<   >\  |\ < 1325514142 685614 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :69             (_|¯'\                   /'\ < 1325514142 685809 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :69                  |_)               (_| |_) < 1325514156 731710 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@85.162.235.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like artistic games a lot though. I try to make my own games as an art form < 1325514190 345466 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the game i am thinking of turns out to be Universe on Amiga < 1325514204 783688 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i once read they used some kind of tricks to get more colours < 1325514264 699097 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :cyborg account? < 1325514267 57719 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Universe was based on a modified version of Enchantia's game engine (the most notable addition was the in-game text and dialogue system and the increase in the Amiga color palette)" < 1325514275 3139 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably not, i'm not sure what you're talking about :) < 1325514277 376191 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, half bot < 1325514281 747549 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Half not bot < 1325514284 368338 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh lol < 1325514290 136427 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"account" doesn't really apply on irc < 1325514295 221916 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but nah, i just idle a bunch :) < 1325514301 382784 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, nick < 1325514309 592051 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you do the celebrate thing < 1325514317 972889 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1325514326 58495 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it appears that somebody stored a convenience macro \o/ < 1325514326 391400 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :69                                                          | < 1325514326 555882 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :69                                                         /< < 1325514333 897091 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it draws legs on anything though < 1325514343 518135 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : \m/ \m/ < 1325514343 850738 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :69   `\o/´69 < 1325514344 185869 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :69     | < 1325514344 350198 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :69    /´¯|_) < 1325514344 350374 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :69  (_| < 1325514369 784803 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's with the leading 9s? < 1325514388 273015 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :leading ... 9s? < 1325514399 61300 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : 9 `\o/´9 < 1325514399 393525 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :69               | < 1325514399 726218 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :69              /| < 1325514410 304746 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :your irc client is rendering color codes weirdly < 1325514420 350510 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So's... mine? < 1325514426 59900 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's ^k69^o < 1325514441 42176 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see no nines nor any colours < 1325514451 11460 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is how it should be ;) < 1325514463 407293 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@85.162.235.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see no colors at all < 1325514467 744444 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not colored < 1325514470 617631 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a reset directly after them < 1325514480 936231 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just hidden tags so i don't interpret lines multiple times or when pasted etc. < 1325514481 435737 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why? < 1325514494 662139 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :long as it was copied in color anyway < 1325514503 915631 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kind of bot-loop protection < 1325514517 565013 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, right < 1325514523 853390 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of the possible smilies starts with ` < 1325514531 941457 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, dancers < 1325514539 782755 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if not for that leading screwup, you could get a loop with hackego < 1325514550 421155 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-4-250.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1325514550 918264 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-4-250.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1325514551 82686 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1325514566 797664 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i wrote this script some time before i ever came here, but you have the idea ;) < 1325514577 9719 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a problem so i fixed it, i don't even remember what the problem was now < 1325514585 710916 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might have only applied to me! < 1325514602 862928 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :since i do some funky things with my own client < 1325514618 192204 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example... < 1325514622 904551 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :<- :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example... < 1325514765 111705 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@85.162.235.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :have to go, byeeee < 1325514779 748355 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1325514779 913755 :cheater!~cheater@dslb-084-057-062-193.pools.arcor-ip.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1325514780 786939 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@85.162.235.110 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1325514783 858910 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu < 1325515088 565656 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one thing i have pondered about graphics is that things like graphics plots never resemble anything < 1325515147 742757 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, it is not common for a formula to represent a bitmap < 1325515200 556880 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, bitmaps don't frequently come in the form of elegant mathematical expressions ;) < 1325515205 968326 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you read about fractal compression? < 1325515220 991317 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like most lineart is discontinuous < 1325515288 857197 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then the idea comes as, just use the brute force of the computer which is available :P < 1325515294 127798 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, I seem to remember there is a way to represent any 1-bit bitmap as an equation. < 1325515324 271731 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupper%27s_self-referential_formula < 1325515325 104906 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1325515327 102861 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 or 0 < 1325515327 604138 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1325515337 533769 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, no I mean as in each pixel is either black or white < 1325515338 201206 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you mean 1 as in the bit depth i'm sure < 1325515339 534707 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not grey < 1325515354 556852 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :see the link < 1325515355 56617 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd believe it, but is that representation significantly shorter or simpler? < 1325515367 673893 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, see the link and decide for yourself < 1325515382 44385 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, awesome < 1325515383 293161 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would call it clunky however < 1325515384 359456 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :a mathematical quine < 1325515402 543442 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, thing is, you can select some numbers in there to draw any image < 1325515413 904008 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's cheating, it's taking an encoding of itself as input < 1325515490 211797 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shrugs < 1325515500 610014 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't look to be very efficient as far as compression goes < 1325515510 874150 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that is correct < 1325515522 688542 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, I was simply replying to " well, bitmaps don't frequently come in the form of elegant mathematical expressions ;)" < 1325515535 335666 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the idea is pretty elegant :P < 1325515549 790101 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :headache being induced < 1325515550 288611 :cheater!~cheater@dslb-084-057-014-213.pools.arcor-ip.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325515550 622144 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :except the fact that it requires a multiple-line constant :P < 1325515552 457896 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, anyway: procedural textures < 1325515566 687725 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, bah, details < 1325515604 138728 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, procedural textures tend to be more or less simple mathematical formulas < 1325515628 981197 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite often there is some perlin noise in there though, which might not be so simple < 1325515649 173435 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yeah, but itidus was commenting on prevalence < 1325515659 453278 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :such techniques might be prevalent in the demoscene but not really outside of it < 1325515685 324462 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, eh, I used procedural textures quite a bit. Minecraft water is by default a procedural texture afaik < 1325515714 598822 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure how common it is in other contexts < 1325516506 677907 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1325516552 89666 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz JOIN :#esoteric < 1325516781 37094 :qfr!void@unaffiliated/yw JOIN :#esoteric < 1325516798 227644 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The .kkrieger-making tool, .werkkzeug, has this artist-friendly(ish) GUI for playing around with expressions and parameters. < 1325516817 98778 :MSleep!~fyrc@or-67-238-19-212.dhcp.embarqhsd.net NICK :MDude < 1325516842 148936 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :For some bizarre reason, I keep thinking that "Euler" begins with J < 1325516844 481336 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-19-212.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1325516848 924627 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> head "Euler" < 1325516849 757325 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 'E' < 1325516854 932513 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't! < 1325516874 706828 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And POV-Ray "frontends" (and Blender, and probably other modelers) tend to include procedural-texture-generation UIs where you can spwengle with layers. < 1325516882 158156 :qfr!void@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because you grossly mispronounce it, Ngevd? :| < 1325516897 631266 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :qfr, not so it sounds like it begins with a J < 1325516906 42293 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jeuler, the jocular Euler. < 1325516927 429744 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's only when I think "what's the initials of Project Euler" do I make this error < 1325516928 634878 :qfr!void@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :A rough English approximation of how it's pronounced is "oilah" < 1325516948 23261 :MDud!~fyrc@or-67-238-19-212.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325516948 227050 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You grossly mispronounce it with a silent J, perhaps. < 1325516948 901664 :qfr!void@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :In modern standard German that is < 1325516952 979673 :MDud!~fyrc@or-67-238-19-212.dhcp.embarqhsd.net NICK :MDude < 1325516961 59561 :qfr!void@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :Different in Swiss German < 1325517008 895317 :Frooxius_!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz JOIN :#esoteric < 1325517031 942033 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-19-212.dhcp.embarqhsd.net NICK :MDud < 1325517035 692446 :MDud!~fyrc@or-67-238-19-212.dhcp.embarqhsd.net NICK :MDude < 1325517056 21571 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-19-212.dhcp.embarqhsd.net NICK :MDuck < 1325517060 852968 :MDuck!~fyrc@or-67-238-19-212.dhcp.embarqhsd.net NICK :MDude < 1325517065 353924 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1325517073 83744 :Frooxius_!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :What? < 1325517078 247552 :Frooxius_!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz NICK :Frooxius < 1325517085 97687 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :A dud duck. Is that like a duck which doesn't quack? < 1325517121 328628 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-19-212.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mIRC keeps switching nick/alternate nick and then keeping it the wrong way around. < 1325517151 599641 :qfr!void@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :mIRC? On MY freenode? < 1325517169 269686 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what happens is: < 1325517175 48282 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you are USING your alt nick < 1325517182 337361 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you change to a nick that's not your main nick < 1325517187 418447 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it modifies the setting < 1325517193 919315 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can use /tnick to avoid this < 1325517198 689963 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is mIRC a blasphemy here? < 1325517206 379231 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it becomes a problem when you get guested or something < 1325517208 546054 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or something like that < 1325517210 955275 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mirc changes your main nick to Guest < 1325517224 171195 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so when you go to change to your main nick, you instead change the wrong one < 1325517230 795806 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or s omething like that anyway. you should get the picture :) < 1325517246 136723 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can alias tnick and maybe reset nick and anick when you get disconnected < 1325517495 557860 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :8-bit metal! >:3 http://freemusicarchive.org/music/Heosphoros/Embered_Recollections/Eleven_Acausal_Fire < 1325517514 789263 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i found something awesome yesterday < 1325517538 746768 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.sotb.se/ < 1325517603 590676 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :They don't sound bad :3 < 1325517610 171851 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :not at all < 1325517632 7729 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :vocals are a little .. well, not bluegrass but it doesn't really matter < 1325517659 88870 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :because of them i also found iron horse, and they seem to have a bunch of cover albums of bands like metallica or black sabbath etc. < 1325517663 4317 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :even linkin park lol < 1325517675 146251 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone listen to Machinae Supremacy? < 1325517717 114766 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :think i've heard of them, but i can't place it < 1325517733 560433 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :SID Metal as they call it < 1325517744 437220 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chiptunes + Metal < 1325517789 755983 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i found the bluegrass band 'cause i was looking for piano covers < 1325517794 563318 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i downloaded a bunch of dragonball z game music recently < 1325517795 897986 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are some good piano renditions of various songs on youtube < 1325517843 83699 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually used their music in a short film I did, named "School as a computer game" :3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAAIPezSwVg < 1325517848 756268 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::o < 1325517865 220194 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha, this is an interesting combination < 1325517872 470047 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is? < 1325517900 797485 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 , Skype: patashu0 . < 1325517961 885422 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :machinae supremacy < 1325518030 133825 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah they're great! :3 They're even fine with me using their music in that video (they're actually even glad for fan works x3 ) < 1325518074 647256 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKQ048-O4vs#t=1m2s <- i want to find a whole album with songs like the intro riff here < 1325518144 767830 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1325518146 768916 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :HAHA oh wow < 1325518147 436717 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8cLJcm_RoU < 1325518150 696190 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :totally didn't know that < 1325518292 724704 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Machinae Supremacy has played once or twice (or thrice; can't quite remember) at Assembly. < 1325518325 604852 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though recently, they seem to get more metal-like and less chiptune-y :-( < 1325518349 228964 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Press Play On Tape did it last year; they're also quite 8-bitty, though not at all metal. < 1325518366 234633 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or I guess officially they spell it PRESS PLAY ON TAPE. < 1325518396 168326 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :The songs I used in the short film are actually the ones that are available for free on their website < 1325518612 5386 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I see they've released (via Pirate Bay, no less) their Assembly 2011 concert video. < 1325518787 1336 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Frooxius: that is really a very cool video < 1325518796 844582 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks O.O < 1325520597 445042 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting youtube channel < 1325520645 726155 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its kind of funny, that, your understanding of 8bit must be so mysterious < 1325520664 488697 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you mean by mysterious? Oo < 1325520700 435364 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i was born in 82, and my first computer was a NES.. im not sure which year that was exactly < 1325520736 998861 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah.. 89 :-? < 1325520758 605990 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :What? Are you asking if I'm 89? < 1325520762 25326 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess you're not all that young < 1325520766 27885 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm 91 < 1325520769 870040 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i got my NES in 89 < 1325520775 582422 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh x3 < 1325520792 55075 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm October 1991 < 1325520803 689461 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :im not sure how i figured that out actually < 1325520825 101078 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still don't know what you mean by the mysterious though < 1325520839 313231 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, wait, you're *29*‽ < 1325520845 317739 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup................... < 1325520856 728002 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're younger than you look < 1325520862 55323 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Older, rather < 1325520866 857773 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember that we had Sega Master System when I was 3 or 4 and later Sega Genesis < 1325520880 644950 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My first console was a Playstation 2... < 1325520883 526266 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel young < 1325520888 460186 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :no computer though really as in, PC and such < 1325520905 95221 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahh maybe ngevd feels the mystery about 8bit then < 1325520922 49286 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :We never had consoles, I just rented a Genesis (well, Mega Drive hereabouts) from the video store every now and then. :/ < 1325520941 837448 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I think it was named Mega Drive here as well < 1325520945 96069 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :What kind of mystery? < 1325520959 52338 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :back then.. the option was.. 1) watch standard def tv 2) watch a vhs tape 3) play 8bit console < 1325520975 792989 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if you were lucky you had some old computer < 1325521018 800369 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1325521024 603499 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so slot cars and remote control cars were a lot more exciting back then < 1325521050 736769 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. I know that even computer felt more exciting and mysterious for me when I was little. < 1325521056 774646 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe that's what you mean? The feeling of mystery? < 1325521074 745285 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is no way to know what he means: that's the mystery. < 1325521074 909831 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like how the Romans built the Pantheon < 1325521081 577324 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well.. for someone who wasnt raised on 8bit games then they have to wonder what exactly is it like to play 8 bit games < 1325521104 165273 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, I play Super Mario Bros on a NES emulator from time to time... < 1325521109 117098 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :---- in a time when they are being sold for a lot of money :P < 1325521115 486961 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I play old games in emulators nowadays too :3 < 1325521125 243666 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though dad has NES as well for a while < 1325521143 377333 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :But mostly it was Sega Master system. Which is 8 bit actually < 1325521152 838842 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean like... there was no 3d, there was no polygons, there was no street fighter < 1325521163 423349 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've got a friend who's got a Betamax player < 1325521174 662593 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I played some 8-bit games in my childhood, but not really that much, because later dad sold the console < 1325521200 525197 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dunno exactly < 1325521229 224273 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember... I couldn't even read much, so the help of M602 (something like Midnight Commander) that was on the computer seemed like a huge mysterious book that would take me ages to read |3 Now I can read it like in 5-10 minutes < 1325521272 982166 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though I didn't get computer until I was 12 < 1325521302 955738 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Frooxius: anyway, your youtube is quite interesting... you're very creative < 1325521307 764799 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Before then, we had nothing, because parents divorced < 1325521316 791848 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks O.O < 1325521410 146744 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was a Prolog system on our 286; now *that* was the weirdest. It even had some example programs that implemented an "ask about geography" thing. < 1325521413 445913 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that housepets animation, did you work out the animation skeleton or was it done automatically? < 1325521424 348847 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which one? < 1325521436 266837 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one where you move him around like a puppet < 1325521470 855022 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, no it was done manually, I positioned the parts with code < 1325521498 655051 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was just silly experiment, it's not even much good |3 < 1325521503 982659 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... did you make the whole system? < 1325521548 768918 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well I quickly scripted it, I basically wrote a code that positions the images on the screen based on input angles and X, Y positions and then created a simple keyframe system, that calculates the frames between two keyframes < 1325521567 61250 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean you didn't cheat with flash or anything right? :-D < 1325521575 205492 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not made with flash < 1325521579 830741 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok i understand < 1325521583 785465 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you did indeed do all the work < 1325521599 344991 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just had to be sure < 1325521603 590568 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well it's very simple anyway, it's just an array of angles and positions and all it does it just pick one current one, find the next one and interpolate between them < 1325521628 256100 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1325521632 723697 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was trying to work on a similar idea myself recently... < 1325521643 766134 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didnt get very far exactly < 1325521659 391424 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i sort of got an interpolated arm moving < 1325521661 737575 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :like if the keyframe[0] is for frame 0 and position 40 and keyframe[1] is for frame 2 and position 20, then it basically first calculates ratio of both < 1325521668 201849 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is < 1325521684 330005 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think one limit i had was this arm thing i made could only bend at one joint < 1325521700 692561 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :(keyframe[n+1].frame-keyframe[n].frame) < 1325521708 612631 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the size difference < 1325521715 656285 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :errr I mean. < 1325521730 767651 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like the span of frames and the ratio is calculated like < 1325521742 96750 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it was about the time i gave up when i started to think about ways that it could work out the necessary joint bends to reach the target < 1325521767 224518 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :r = (current_frame-keyframe[n].frame) / (keyframe[n+1].frame-keyframe[n].frame) < 1325521774 366231 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you can calculate the position as < 1325521806 606086 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :actual_x = (keyframe[n].x * (1.0-r) + keyframe[n].x * (r)) < 1325521808 605608 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you use the same system to animate tiggy? < 1325521813 648374 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :No < 1325521823 545944 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not keyframed < 1325521849 690936 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plus you can first apply some function on the r < 1325521869 937597 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah don't worry im not all that smart.. i won't remember any of this later < 1325521878 635402 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :like SinFunc(r), which outputs also 0.0 to 1.0, but assumes that input r is linear and output is sine < 1325521894 385990 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :So the animation is nice and smooth - has smooth start and smooth end < 1325521963 862093 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :SinFunc(r) can be defined like { return Sin(r*(pi/2)); } < 1325521969 76415 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1325521973 653277 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello elliott! < 1325521982 361098 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :hellooo elliott! < 1325521984 239926 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or just "helliott" in short. < 1325522005 693098 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1325522005 862498 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You have 4 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. < 1325522024 896585 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Joor so popular. < 1325522045 906229 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :three of those messages were me < 1325522048 875817 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tiggy has instead several animation states defined, like when he's walking, running, jumping and such. Each one of these has some input variables that are used to calculate the positions of the body parts - they are positioned by code as well < 1325522055 944993 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, self-popular, then. < 1325522086 526978 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Usually it's walking speed and or surrounding's - distance to the floor or ceiling, or vertical speed and such. < 1325522098 342682 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders who Frooxius is < 1325522115 730211 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Frooxius: i am sort of the dumb guy here.. i am clueless about esoteric programming.. < 1325522124 343069 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, he's vaguely new < 1325522132 825873 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just joined today ^^' < 1325522172 173217 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, it does smooth transitions between these animations, using a similar way as between two keyframes (calculate the ratio first and then do a sum of the first state *(1.0-r) and second state *r < 1325522187 914218 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Frooxius is new, ontopic, and seems to understand what the channel's like < 1325522197 243382 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can look at the mess when we welcomed em < 1325522251 622533 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Sad, then, that the Elliott Experience(tm) will likely scar em for life. < 1325522267 366639 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and he is into gamedev.. yay < 1325522268 614463 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plus smooth transitions can happen during various times. For example, when he's walking, then he's walking at specific speed and then there's a small range of the velocity, where the walking animation is transitioned to the running one, based on the speed actually (the speed in the small range is used as the ratio for the smooth transition) < 1325522297 782960 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and much better at it than i am < 1325522333 795241 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION mutters < 1325522352 32234 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If only Homo sapiens were intelligently designed, then I could curse the designer of the sinus. < 1325522358 171897 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :For example, he walks at 10.0 speed and I can have code that calculates the ratio like r = limit( ( speed-10.0)/4.0, 0.0, 1.0) < 1325522371 220000 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :So the transition range is 10.0 to 14.0 < 1325522384 929488 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :limit is limit(val, min, max) limits the value to certain range < 1325522419 385320 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this game an esoteric game? < 1325522432 521970 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, not really ^^' < 1325522441 62037 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :We shall have to fix that, then. < 1325522446 287397 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though I have some weird ones in plans < 1325522452 986174 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pick a weird topology, apply to game space immediately. < 1325522465 908499 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well experimental games at least < 1325522466 621421 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I recommend the real projective plane. < 1325522478 210752 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: that's actually quite a good one for games, I think < 1325522530 354815 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's the two-step plan to making an esoteric game: 1. Check if your game is one of my game plans. 2. If it's not, make it that and implement it. (You may need to learn a few languages.) < 1325522537 163612 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is the ONLY. WAY. < 1325522550 651976 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :nuuuuu < 1325522551 365962 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hahahaha, as if you'd ever use any language other than Haskell. < 1325522556 953697 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION starts running in triangles < 1325522564 513871 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: That's at least one language! < 1325522570 334129 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1325522570 500355 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also the Cabal file... < 1325522571 213617 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or condone the use of anything that wasn't either Haskell or Haskell, but moreso. < 1325522579 419612 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :he is the chosen one.. in 2012 < 1325522581 781909 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :See, that's two languages. < 1325522585 815914 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: oh god what. < 1325522602 939695 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a mysterious mix of intelligence and creativity < 1325522631 759754 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I... < 1325522645 173885 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Frooxius: Congratulations, you're The Prophet(tm). < 1325522648 186888 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hey, implement elliottcraft (ais523 version) for me < 1325522649 21976 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tell us about how the world will end. < 1325522651 912149 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, i'ts named after you! < 1325522653 832899 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is likely he will understand esolangs < 1325522657 484187 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*it's < 1325522658 371249 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHATDIDIDO? Oo < 1325522664 906373 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea. < 1325522800 143678 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the force is strong with him i tell you < 1325522811 335497 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... maybe it will end with Kernel Panic. Or a BSOD. < 1325522830 295172 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : a mysterious mix of intelligence and creativity < 1325522834 593330 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or whatever-Apple-Mac-OS-X-does-when-it-goes-bonkers < 1325522837 107426 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this intelligence relative to itidus21? < 1325522845 810445 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... < 1325522886 4643 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i stand by my comment :-D < 1325522955 803755 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :JUST SEEN: someone self-censoring 'screwed'. < 1325522988 274342 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :s*****d? < 1325522999 49365 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Worse. < 1325523005 346752 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Scr*wed'. < 1325523038 749148 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's totally Nitrloglibimostri*vilious < 1325523065 727256 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay b*wdl*r*z*t**n < 1325523071 376069 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Frooxius: OS X just kernel panics too. < 1325523075 515252 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :B****fuck < 1325523138 479937 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: isn't an OS X kernel panic an image of a power button, plus instructions to reboot your computer in five different languages? < 1325523151 611088 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if a Mac's going to screen-of-death, at least it's going to be a /stylish/ screen of death < 1325523164 102643 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas Linux just locks up and flashes the num lock and caps lock keyboard LEDs < 1325523181 573350 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and I don't think I need to explain what Windows does, it's so well known) < 1325523224 146659 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :********k. < 1325523236 302225 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would ask what DOS does on kernel panic < 1325523241 948543 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm not entirely convinced it even has a kernel < 1325523252 353587 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : B****fuck <-- just realised the joke... < 1325523264 174534 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: it's an old joke < 1325523271 593231 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but wow, that was almost as slow as Vorpal < 1325523280 243417 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. Like display an advanced and detailed 3D realtime render of rotating apple with a little diamond worm with a speech bubble saying "According to 9 out of 10 fashion experts, it's very positive for your image if your OS crashes once in a while. Thus, with sole intentions of helping your image, we just crashed your OS. Your Apple" < 1325523304 692661 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: The C64 ROM hasn't got a kernel, but it *has* got a KERNAL. < 1325523305 26443 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, most OSes don't react sanely to a GPU crash < 1325523326 838482 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: the BBC Micro just had a bunch of subroutines at the top of memory that did stuff like writing to the screen < 1325523336 80567 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :with standard names like oswrch < 1325523340 551573 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and osrdch < 1325523358 35927 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which made asm programs hard to read, as I mentally pronounced both words as "ostrich") < 1325523453 594446 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :holy shit why is google's search bar under like 10 nested divs and tables. < 1325523498 336270 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: That's not much more than what the KERNAL has, except I think it's got the standard IRQ, NMI and RESET handlers too. < 1325523515 955395 :azaq231!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1325523517 861158 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's even also at the top of the memory. < 1325523555 744403 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, my BytePusher version of Hunt the Wumpus is tricky... < 1325523741 706071 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tables? < 1325523755 583932 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tables? < 1325523769 295693 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :TABLES? Oo < 1325523980 660172 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Also FreeDOS has a component called KERNEL; it contains the KERNEL.SYS file which implements the DOS system calls. I suppose that corresponds to MSDOS.SYS, and possibly also IO.SYS, in MS-DOS. < 1325523997 320363 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, seems about right < 1325524027 849590 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : and osrdch < 1325524037 511908 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it make the processor stick its head in the sand < 1325524602 597460 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I got a "GURU MEDITATION" error out of some website the other day. < 1325524684 458998 :qfr!void@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :My notebook came with a copy of FreeDOS < 1325524688 981502 :qfr!void@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :I put it into the trash < 1325524736 131081 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :qfr: it's a legal requirement that Microsoft invented, that computers have to be sold with an OS < 1325524741 102516 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(at least, they managed to force it through) < 1325524754 634950 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeDOS is typically used as a very cheap method of complying with that requirement < 1325524756 857313 :qfr!void@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric ::L < 1325524761 981010 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :by computer companies who'd otherwise be selling bare boxes < 1325524786 657725 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the easiest way to convert a 256x256 bitmap to a Bytepusher codepage? < 1325524791 139684 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :qfr: you did put the copy of FreeDOS in the trash, not the notebook, right? < 1325524791 974286 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :xscreensaver's BSOD "hack" contains error messages from: Windows 3.1, Windows 95, Windows NT, MS-DOS, AmigaDOS 1.3, Linux, SCO UNIX, BSD UNIX, HPUX, Solaris, Tru64, VMS, HVX/GCOS6, IBM OS/390, OS/2, MacOS (MacsBug, Bomb, Sad Mac, and OSX), Atari ST, Apple ][+, and NCD X Terminals. < 1325524939 155752 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: If you just need the bytes, and it's a one-off thing, Gimp has a "raw image data" file-writing mode which I guess should suffice. < 1325525074 412454 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually I'm not terribly sure if it includes the palette if you write an indexed-color image. < 1325525141 908568 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :But at least a grayscale image is written as a sequence of bytes in the "obvious" manner. < 1325525221 345319 :qfr!void@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I decline to comment < 1325525241 602746 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, you aren't elliott! < 1325525263 882858 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right: Frooxius, you wouldn't happen to live in Hexham, would you? < 1325525291 590748 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, sorry. < 1325525298 488254 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :phew < 1325525299 640087 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about Finland? < 1325525315 708287 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why would I live there? < 1325525322 100393 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a *very* good question. < 1325525325 459802 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why would anyone? < 1325525328 355240 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :With a Czech hostname, both of those are rather unlikely. < 1325525363 660674 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's two people in this channel in Hexham and god knows how many in Finland < 1325525373 838980 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: but does anyone else know how many? < 1325525383 634877 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I'm sure a place as cosmopolitan as Hexham has a fairly-sized "Czechtown". < 1325525386 97356 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, good question < 1325525453 817805 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It's at least five by my last count. < 1325525464 146680 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325525476 101169 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :am I the only esolanger in Birmingham? < 1325525488 577006 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's see... a tehwa, D eewiant, f izzie, i neiros, m tve, and Z warddijk at the very least. < 1325525497 332461 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So at least six. And that's before we get to the bots. < 1325525504 381861 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Okay, there's only one Finnish bot.) < 1325525511 962310 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and that's just people here now, so it's at least seven. < 1325525520 750612 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't think "m tve" did? But you didn't count "o klopol". < 1325525560 978805 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Birmingham, second largest city in the UK, has one esolanger, Hexham, a town with about 1% the population, has two < 1325525599 683091 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Two in Sweden? < 1325525633 306802 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Did what? I assumed he's a Finn because you know him. :p < 1325525636 880392 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Aren't all of "V orpal", "o lsner" and "F ireFly" from Sweden? Though I might misremember. < 1325525650 213280 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, and a few more too. < 1325525651 641932 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe. < 1325525654 553421 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are there any Canadian esolangers? < 1325525661 820857 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro is Canadian < 1325525663 470336 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't think I know em, and I had a vague feeling e was from Germany. But I'm certainly not certain. < 1325525667 517281 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is Zwaarddijk a Swedish-speaking Finn or vice versa? < 1325525668 794795 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: a loril seems to be in Finland < 1325525674 331433 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty sure it's the first one. < 1325525678 154569 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you meant some other. < 1325525681 965518 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait, you were just counting separately. < 1325525691 421545 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Okay, fair enough. Maybe I'm thinking of some other Finn you know. :p < 1325525707 20361 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I conclude my official tally with the result: "Too many". < 1325525709 125452 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol I like cpressy wrote a script in Perl that literally generates line noise. < 1325525713 767189 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :+how < 1325525787 803275 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: don't you mean random values? < 1325525788 914355 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: *at least two. < 1325525794 609187 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, cpressey used to live in Canadia. < 1325525799 254856 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for it to be /literal/ line noise it'd need to be trying to get data from a noisy connection < 1325525814 554190 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and reading noise instead < 1325525825 958435 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have seen genuine line noise before now < 1325525826 435131 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://catseye.tc/projects/noise/script/noise randomly generated in a certain way, yes. < 1325525843 663698 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :when we linked up a couple of serial ports by physically sticking copper wires into the relevant sockets < 1325525848 837943 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it got knocked < 1325525860 515132 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :noise is a tiny utility whose purpose is to simulate line noise — those random bursts of static that occur when communicating with a non-error-correcting modem over an unreliable phone line. Start it up in the background and keep working at your shell prompt — or, keep trying to! < 1325525873 454665 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've got to get some of my friends into esoteric programming < 1325525883 72508 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: do you have friends that program? < 1325525883 391471 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It could be a physical-simulation sort of line noise. They simulate acoustic instruments and so on, why not line noise. < 1325525898 404125 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1325525913 372202 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I actually wrote one of those, come to think of it < 1325525915 160864 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, two, one's more of an acquaitance, due to him being a bit of a dick, and the other doesn't live in Hexham < 1325525930 773456 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was testing a Morse code decoder I'd written that was designed to work on noisy input < 1325525938 660722 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, that's about as many people I know as well. I guess a few more if you count people I've met. < 1325525941 721396 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't count those. < 1325525967 612746 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: noise cancellation is fun. < 1325525969 910182 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am going to leave for a while < 1325525972 618150 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: Goodbye < 1325526244 539568 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@unmtl State s a < 1325526245 17229 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :s -> (a, s) < 1325526862 223997 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION finds himself using Facebook less and less. < 1325527025 236781 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :you still use fb? < 1325527057 12931 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1325527062 790315 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :people I talk to use it < 1325527063 107319 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop < 1325527085 935582 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I probably will once the new terrible profile change takes place. < 1325527099 605004 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, I was fine with every other change < 1325527101 204274 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :until this one. < 1325527110 766716 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: you have reason to think one's coming other than the fact that they happen often? < 1325527117 340165 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: why? < 1325527144 474836 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : stop < 1325527145 586321 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you zzo < 1325527162 476793 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: do you seriously have to ask whether any given person is zzo or not? < 1325527177 38862 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: are you elliott? < 1325527185 257756 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I were, do you think I'd admit it? < 1325527188 906875 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: are you monqy? < 1325527193 240681 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: yes < 1325527195 665673 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :clog: are you glogbot < 1325527203 900794 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :clogbot < 1325527291 390272 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: how was your weak squishy human sleep? < 1325527300 755505 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have been awake since last we spakened < 1325527314 258618 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :spaconed, like bacon. < 1325527349 357632 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :selenium.common.exceptions.StaleElementReferenceException: Message: u'Element not found in the cache' < 1325527352 419647 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY < 1325528132 738853 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selenium sucks, anyway. < 1325528160 188186 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: well yes. < 1325528178 685493 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tellurium is better in every way. < 1325528207 605179 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Using chr, ord, and -32 is not the right way of doing this. Use toUpper." "@augustss: It's good enough for ASCII." < 1325528215 895460 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO FUCK YOU NOTHING IS "GOOD ENOUGH FOR ASCII" JESUS CHRIST < 1325528286 120494 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: even toUpper isn't correct without some knowledge of the language < 1325528309 460016 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: is someone trying to find excuses /not/ to use toUpper? < 1325528320 674587 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and instead use... that? < 1325528321 888571 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1325528339 405232 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's going to basically fuck up anything that wasn't lowercase. < 1325528340 619332 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the input known to be made out of lowercase letters? < 1325528346 825869 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this Haskell? < 1325528356 775428 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably, based on function names. < 1325528390 135148 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :chr and ord are commonly used function names for those operations < 1325528390 487738 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION decides to just link rather than tediously explaining everything: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/8700564/haskell-converting-small-chars-to-capital < 1325528395 807964 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1325528400 240576 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :guy keeps opening trivial homework questions without even trying < 1325528412 240388 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :people keep answering them by giving a complete solution >_< < 1325528425 415065 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :chr . subtract 32 . ord is not only incorrect but requires more effort than toUpper. < 1325528454 906062 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, are there any rules against answer homework questions? < 1325528459 820502 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but he hadn't imported Data.Char so he was getting "not in scope" < 1325528463 886396 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so much easier to use a broken solution < 1325528475 531225 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: you are meant to try and give help for homework questions, not the solution outright < 1325528484 148104 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(they are tagged "homework", so there is no excuse) < 1325528563 137557 :nooga!~nooga@egv122.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1325528598 530166 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmmm how /does/ toUpper work with Unicode characters. < 1325528625 31432 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it /should/ be locale-dependent < 1325528631 11308 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there like, a big table? < 1325528635 310307 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: for what definition of should < 1325528643 942623 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do not believe the unicode standard talks about locales < 1325528697 668604 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, it depends on the language < 1325528701 348631 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Turkish is the normal example < 1325528713 382535 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I think it more likely talks about locales than languages < 1325528781 115528 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I am dead sure that (a) the Unicode standard defines various case transformations and (b) they do not depend on any sort of external state. < 1325528806 653778 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott dead. < 1325528811 944738 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the external state would be used to determine which transformation was used, then, presumably < 1325528812 114399 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1325528862 591308 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how do I say "you're wrong" in a way that doesn't make your response "" < 1325528889 979743 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: a link would be helpful < 1325528909 813613 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is impossible to correctly determine what the capital version of "i" is without knowing the language, anyway, is the point < 1325528921 879899 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.unicode.org/versions/Unicode6.0.0/ < 1325528935 140168 :nooga!~nooga@egv122.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1325528950 434391 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :specifically, http://www.unicode.org/versions/Unicode6.0.0/ch04.pdf < 1325528954 612939 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm if that's the case then toUpper is not referentially transparent. < 1325528979 747370 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325528983 673061 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks < 1325529018 73628 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I've just stopped paying attention to YouTube's featured videos altogether, even if they're relevant. < 1325529066 681956 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325529422 602472 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :“If you are a programmer working in 2006 and you don’t know the basics of characters, character sets, encodings, and Unicode, and I catch you, I’m going to punish you by making you peel onions for six months in a submarine.” < 1325529422 795535 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :—joel spolsky < 1325529422 795765 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Joel on Software < 1325529423 668608 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is actually < 1325529425 680067 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the unicode website < 1325529437 236844 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.unicode.org/announcements/quotations.html#spolsky < 1325529529 743746 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: page 7: " Also contains context-dependent mappings, with flags to distin- guish them from the normal mappings, as well as some locale-dependent mappings." < 1325529536 863373 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I knew it'd be there if I looked hard enough < 1325529566 222462 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and I'm not taking it out of context either, although feel free to check yourself) < 1325529596 53972 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmmmm how /does/ toUpper work with Unicode characters. it /should/ be locale-dependent < 1325529599 945963 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't, your quote is irrelevant to that < 1325529629 543495 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: my quote is from the database that contains the default uppercasing algorithms for unicode < 1325529663 332560 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it also says that there's a legacy best mappings database that isn't locale-dependent < 1325529676 11858 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that should only be used by legacy implementations < 1325529697 888996 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although that's at least partly to do with mapping one lowercase character to multiple uppercase characters < 1325529702 773660 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :blah, i cba to actually read the spec, but i'm still going to maintain my belief that i'm pretty sure you're wrong :) < 1325529730 971744 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow properties sure are bad in Python. < 1325529814 733854 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hmmm no it's a little bit better than it used to be. < 1325529903 685906 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: in the actual case of lowercase i, http://www.unicode.org/charts/PDF/U0000.pdf says "Turkish and Azerbaijani use 0130 İ for uppercase" < 1325529951 778513 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that sounds like just a comment, not a definition < 1325529959 876494 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, indeed < 1325529965 667194 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to find the case mapping charts at the moment < 1325530101 685098 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: anyway, I think it's possible that we're both right < 1325530113 480941 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems that there are pure legacy versions that map characters to characters < 1325530122 108065 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and more contexty versions that map strings to strings, and require locale info < 1325530130 257983 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only case mapping charts I could find were for the legacy version < 1325530138 707866 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@unmtl Writer w a < 1325530139 221981 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a, w) < 1325530146 420776 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"mtl"? < 1325530147 118912 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: heh < 1325530151 426310 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monad transformer library < 1325530155 390874 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, OK < 1325530169 539869 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@unmtl WriterT (ContT r (StateT s (ErrorT e IO))) a < 1325530169 716223 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plugin `unmtl' failed with: `WriterT (ContT r (StateT s (ErrorT e IO))) a' is not applied to enough arguments, giving `/\A. a (A, ContT r (StateT s (ErrorT e IO)))' < 1325530172 493558 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh :D < 1325530177 609145 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@unmtl WriterT (ContT r (StateT s (ErrorT e IO))) [Int] a < 1325530177 963860 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :[Int] (a, ContT r (StateT s (ErrorT e IO))) < 1325530181 208782 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1325530181 724536 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1325530186 438628 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@unmtl WriterT [Int] (ContT r (StateT s (ErrorT e IO))) a < 1325530186 960997 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a -> [Int] -> s -> IO (Either e (r, s))) -> s -> IO (Either e (r, s)) < 1325530190 922210 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: like so ^ < 1325530196 452102 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@mtl (a -> [Int] -> s -> IO (Either e (r, s))) -> s -> IO (Either e (r, s)) < 1325530196 627859 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you meant: ft map msg pl unmtl url < 1325530201 407739 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't exist though :P < 1325530230 522015 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so it's working out the type that actually represents the type of a monad action obtained by stringing together a bunch of monad transformers < 1325530247 903875 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just expanding the definitions recursively < 1325530252 729001 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, indeed < 1325530266 782147 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :except they're actually data types, not type synonyms, so the two types are not actually equivalent :) but it's what they /mean/ < 1325530311 223349 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're isomorphic if you ignore the fact that a data declaration adds an extra bottom. :> < 1325530320 385295 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but many of those are newtypes, right? < 1325530321 90797 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: they're newtypes. < 1325530323 768586 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1325530403 852916 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://www.unicode.org/Public/UNIDATA/SpecialCasing.txt "-- contains additional information about the casing of Unicode characters. (For compatibility, the UnicodeData.txt file only contains case mappings for < 1325530417 887978 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :characters where they are 1-1, and independent of context and language." < 1325530427 861616 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :0130; 0069 0307; 0130; 0130; # LATIN CAPITAL LETTER I WITH DOT ABOVE < 1325530436 766565 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: thanks for finding it for me < 1325530502 564246 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm tempted to make semicolons an infix operator for statement blocks... < 1325530509 188158 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :talk me out of it. < 1325530526 874901 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: don't work for spammers < 1325530529 258327 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, talk you out of /that/ < 1325530566 532329 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's the language-specific (and context-specific; sometimes the mapping depends on surrounding characters, like for sigma and... I guess that's about it) ones. < 1325530574 94091 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no, I think I ruined my Monoid instance < 1325530584 407808 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm it might not be a problem though < 1325530596 4037 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: ICA uses infix semicolon as sequencing, it works fine < 1325530616 592973 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the main problem is precedence < 1325530620 830323 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :low < 1325530626 637897 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no precedence that doesn't look weird in some combination or other < 1325530626 814533 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the precedence is low. problem solved. < 1325530628 743970 :iconmaster[1]!~iconmaste@cpe-74-79-18-174.twcny.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1325530635 341778 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: lower than if? while? lambda? < 1325530652 99024 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1325530658 459620 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :those are functions with () notation < 1325530658 811718 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pair formation? < 1325530667 746127 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I have that. < 1325530679 333260 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a,b;c,d is a bit of a weird case < 1325530688 228236 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because clearly a,(b;c),d is the only way it'd type < 1325530722 731693 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have to worry about that because I don't treat , as an operator. < 1325530741 607469 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so technically if , is an infix operator it's lower precedence than any operator. < 1325530756 327969 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it's defined as part of the function syntax. < 1325530807 963148 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm yes I like that. I'll do that. < 1325530908 541934 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually top-level statements require no line terminator, but I suspect if I don't add one it will make the errors look like crap. < 1325531147 336189 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1325531394 205639 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : I think using Haskell's list monad will make the logic programming stuff much easier. <-- note that iirc there exists a monad-logic package which is more flexible than lists < 1325531395 98221 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello oerjan welcome to ~AMERICA~ < 1325531411 966434 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks suspiciously at elliott  < 1325531428 770195 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :was that scripted? < 1325531506 447773 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1325531519 960345 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :~AMERICA~ < 1325531581 941662 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I assume it also handles non-determinism? < 1325531603 51266 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well what i recall is it has this function: < 1325531603 808276 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1325531608 903198 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (>>-) < 1325531609 990771 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (m :: * -> *) a b. (MonadLogic m) => m a -> (a -> m b) -> m b < 1325531648 342117 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is like >>- except reorders things to ensure all combinations are tried < 1325531682 777681 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:13:01: oerjan: I assume it also handles non-determinism? < 1325531687 597405 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it's a logic monad without nondeterminsm < 1325531688 307248 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :aka < 1325531688 841586 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe < 1325531691 496085 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> [1..] >>- \x -> (,) x <$> [1..] < 1325531692 447969 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [(1,1),(2,1),(1,2),(3,1),(1,3),(2,2),(1,4),(4,1),(1,5),(2,3),(1,6),(3,2),(1... < 1325531725 174572 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*is like >>= < 1325531749 197429 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also i think there are more efficient instances than [] < 1325531752 460842 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1325531815 551475 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think there's a LogicT monad transformer < 1325531824 177876 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hmm, are monad instances uniquely determined? i suspect not, but can't think of a counterexample :) < 1325531824 755809 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t LogicT < 1325531825 815144 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a (m :: * -> *). (forall r. (a -> m r -> m r) -> m r -> m r) -> LogicT m a < 1325531827 631507 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know Functor is < 1325531856 774035 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: heh i wondered about that too, whether an Applicative can extend to two different Monads < 1325531898 315477 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it would be weird to have Functor and Monad uniquely determined but not Applicative < 1325531900 699560 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Applicative obviously isn't < 1325531908 83564 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm well < 1325531911 433430 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if ZipList is a monad they aren't < 1325531919 548989 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh that < 1325531920 833234 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if ZipList isn't a monad, there might well be only one Monad for a given Appliactive < 1325531922 255354 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Applicative < 1325531932 375152 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1325531934 932014 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ZipList is a Monad ignoring bottom >:) < 1325531938 503287 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a different question :P < 1325531943 770500 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok what i was originally asking was < 1325531948 240990 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :are monad instances uniquely determined for a data type < 1325531948 596142 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not < 1325531949 521042 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not _entirely_ sure what it is with bottom < 1325531951 97988 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :are monad instances uniquely determined for an applicative instanc < 1325531951 698252 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :e < 1325531958 547430 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :some data types have multiple Applicatives so they're not equivalent < 1325531965 897647 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i do not believe you have proved that < 1325531970 903208 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok so a simpler question < 1325531980 457773 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which one is simpler? < 1325531981 518402 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a type which has two Monad instances. < 1325531986 11236 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1325531996 713459 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact there is an obvious one < 1325532008 859499 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :State can be reconsidered as Reader + Writer < 1325532014 790196 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1325532017 467146 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :HURR_DURR < 1325532019 636897 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that has a Monoid constraint though < 1325532025 122997 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could make the StateList monad, though < 1325532031 773867 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and have it be Reader + Writer as well as State < 1325532039 584743 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure but that's a constraint on the parameter, not the monadic value < 1325532039 762558 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, cool < 1325532045 143843 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :data T a = List [a] | Maybe (Maybe a) -- Nobel prize plz < 1325532049 429614 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :are the applicatives the same? < 1325532079 393374 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I guess that's not two different instances < 1325532080 809561 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :just one still. < 1325532115 136641 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no they're not the same, the applicative of State still threads the state < 1325532129 607501 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :liftA2 get get < 1325532131 463518 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1325532136 705537 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :liftA2 (,) get get < 1325532141 557387 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or hm < 1325532161 304413 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :liftA3 (,,) get (modify (+1)) get < 1325532203 53552 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1325532244 880573 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you could always do something stupid like... < 1325532265 823334 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :make >>= only apply the function to the first list element if there is one. < 1325532266 716951 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and of course backwards state monad has the same underlying type as the forward one, and the reversed applicative i think < 1325532273 200045 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically a Maybe monad instance for [a] < 1325532298 294054 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t listToMaybe < 1325532299 396725 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. [a] -> Maybe a < 1325532316 807954 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1325532374 344851 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Functor is special i think, because it's so weaved into parametricity; the free theorem for g :: Functor f => a -> f a is g . k = fmap k . g < 1325532386 926266 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1325532578 311886 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : data T a = List [a] | Maybe (Maybe a) -- Nobel prize plz <-- i'm not convinced that's either an Applicative or a Monad < 1325532615 752291 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :there _are_ laws to fulfil, after all. < 1325532670 503664 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: and that's basically what i was trying to get at with your CoContra stuff from yesterday - i expect something similar applies < 1325532689 23807 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :similar to what? < 1325532707 557302 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :to g . k = fmap k . g < 1325532734 466447 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1325532742 298825 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*suspect < 1325532883 576050 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: NAG NAG NAG < 1325532911 124361 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log zjoin.*scanl1.*diag < 1325532918 952157 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :emacs has taken a liking to randomly freezing on saves for some reason. < 1325532922 530634 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia JOIN :#esoteric < 1325532935 573655 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-12-17.txt:05:00:42: @let zjoin = ZipList . diag . scanl1 (zipWith (flip const)) . map (getZipList) . getZipList where diag = concat . takeWhile (not . null) . map (take 1) . foldr (\x xs -> x:map (drop 1) xs) [] < 1325533202 199001 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : ah okay, now I see why they say Haskell's type system is like a mini-Prolog. <-- without backtracking though, afaik < 1325533214 971689 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no proper constraint solving < 1325533437 257498 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose it does at least allow reordering constraints by taking the once it can solve immediately first < 1325533441 803543 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ones < 1325533498 880570 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell Gregor !!!!!!! < 1325533499 416134 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1325533583 535125 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ban Gregor, he's obstructing my construction of ch2 < 1325533592 165171 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :obstructing my construction so induction has no suction < 1325533920 716436 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: btw i think the word you're looking for is "woven" :P < 1325534139 589159 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :despite your request, it's quite for the best, not to be too sure it should be the cure to ban the man < 1325534223 844823 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1325534225 851485 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also < 1325534231 523737 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ur the one who complaininged abotu the log formats < 1325534233 29143 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ings < 1325534328 290435 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i see, this obligates me to institute a cruel and unusual regime < 1325534341 181803 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325534348 53572 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, you've already done that part < 1325534354 479397 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1325534358 265694 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1325534391 565129 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :hellooooo! :3 < 1325534551 802328 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Syntax error: Unknown instruction" Yeah, but WHICH ONE?! Who implemented this? Oh wait, I did |3 I seriously annoy myself sometimes *giggles in a somewhat silly way* < 1325534594 51374 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i < 1325534631 958268 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1325534637 559804 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is |3 meant to mean < 1325534653 803101 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I keep forgetting Ron Paul is a serious politician < 1325534654 645181 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is terrified of what he may find out, but asks out of curiosity. < 1325534669 746247 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: Don't worry, he isn't. < 1325534703 495171 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :|3 is an emoticon, like a >.< face or -_- but with cat-face < 1325534706 104177 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1325534725 994833 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Frooxius: I don't believe you. < 1325534737 579910 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's clearly like a pipe on the 3rd file descriptor or something. < 1325534749 69124 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well it can have multiple meanings < 1325534752 572388 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Frooxius......................... < 1325534760 708610 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :What? Oo < 1325534771 590012 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it like a robot cat < 1325534783 874670 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that is the only way that could conceivably look like a cat < 1325534792 936182 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that too probably < 1325534855 751585 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like that guy in Star Trek TNG, with the weird sunglassesd < 1325534887 58627 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :geordi < 1325534897 210821 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly < 1325534910 628183 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's cat-geordi < 1325534912 172414 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really watch Star Trek enough to have ever seen a full episode < 1325534922 179714 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Geordicat < 1325535780 447962 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Odocat. < 1325535785 714666 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It is a very smug cat.) < 1325535930 419257 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : ah yes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupper%27s_self-referential_formula <-- that's not actually a quine, since the actual bitmap is given in k to be supplied separately < 1325535989 785260 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i recall someone made a better one somewhere that was more like an actual quine < 1325536012 283741 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swats Vorpal in absentia for being absent -----### < 1325536019 124621 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :swat Gregor for being absent pls < 1325536027 965256 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah that thing is STUPID < 1325536039 160321 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swats Gregor for being absent -----### < 1325536170 85239 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : For some bizarre reason, I keep thinking that "Euler" begins with J <-- presumably then you are pronouncing it with an english eu, not a german one < 1325536181 90014 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :a german one sounds more like oi in oil < 1325536192 330378 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know its oiler but ewler sounds so much better < 1325536204 994300 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it doesn't :P < 1325536216 95118 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I don't make this mistake with, e.g., euthanasia < 1325536499 656314 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you missed a couple spams < 1325536532 913236 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-4-250.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1325536533 270869 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-4-250.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1325536533 447179 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1325536598 860316 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1325536606 305237 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: seems Keymaker got them < 1325536639 635862 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1325536642 716234 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : i know its oiler but ewler sounds so much better < 1325536645 756349 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Excuse me wrong. < 1325536663 300505 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although it's not as bad as people who pronounce Gauss as 'goss'. < 1325536669 778127 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :gorse < 1325536802 409224 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a1/De-carlfriedrichgauss.ogg < 1325536807 433381 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should say his full name like this always < 1325536828 56550 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1325536874 50712 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh it's < 1325536875 42868 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :gouse < 1325536878 584895 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i say gorse < 1325536879 301907 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mentally < 1325536882 699316 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :gorse and ewler < 1325536887 168834 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a gauss in the house < 1325536890 611174 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1325536893 509528 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: i don't actually say ewler < 1325536894 265386 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i say < 1325536896 620922 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :youwler < 1325536899 342971 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf gorse why < 1325536902 663371 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait you're british. < 1325536904 311537 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :nevermind < 1325536912 991138 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :au is like < 1325536913 347666 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or < 1325536914 584461 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :gorse < 1325536918 602838 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet you say saw with an r don't you. < 1325536920 292299 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :asshole < 1325536949 43497 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can you rationalize that to make any sense at all? < 1325536961 814120 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :like... what is the thought process behind adding random r's to words that don't have r's < 1325536964 354985 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION just records him saying these things instead of trying to explain them < 1325536965 789109 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also < 1325536966 502336 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dude < 1325536974 506354 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhotic_and_non-rhotic_accents < 1325536990 174400 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1325537094 826928 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that doesn't really explain why < 1325537097 366080 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :saw has an r in it < 1325537099 156324 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :when there's no r < 1325537100 626272 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in it. < 1325537112 539830 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: I think that's the intrusive r < 1325537137 953527 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't have an r in it. People with a non-rhotic accent just think it sounds the same as its nearest equivalent with an r < 1325537198 140029 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1325537227 281591 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1325537233 971138 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sigh, microphone on this doesn't work. < 1325537249 584799 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Get Ngevd to do it. < 1325537256 739177 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Science dictates that your accents are identical. < 1325537261 846604 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-4-250.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1325537262 204643 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-4-250.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1325537262 381304 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1325537291 144167 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: what is its nearest equivalent? < 1325537295 434215 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sore < 1325537300 369247 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh... < 1325537322 506190 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Saw and sore sound the same; so, amusingly, do pawn and porn. < 1325537338 92959 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't a non-rhotic accent pronounce that as... saw without an r? I don't think I understand why a non-rhotic accent would add an r there. < 1325537371 17779 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: People saying "pawn shop" will never not make me think "HOW DOES DECENT SOCIETY ALLOW OUR ACCENTS TO DO THIS TO US". < 1325537390 255689 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Protip: Thinking of it as "adding an r" in places won't help < 1325537393 911573 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION didn't know that pawn and porn sounded the same. < 1325537408 741739 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but... that's what is happening. < 1325537417 316461 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you want me to unthink what is happening? < 1325537433 506561 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :sheesh, just talk like Americans: problem solved. < 1325537445 860572 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Merry, Mary, Marry < 1325537450 674694 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :just switch accents depending on which of porn or pawn you're saying < 1325537485 618366 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, *sigh*. < 1325537501 625919 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rs extend and... round off vowels. < 1325537508 775484 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so basically "non-rhotic" means "add r's to things." non-intuitively. got it. < 1325537516 810268 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Nope. < 1325537520 562290 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You really are an idiot. < 1325537521 826758 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhotic_and_non-rhotic_accents < 1325537551 835556 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It means that rs before consonants aren't pronounced, and instead apply the aforementioned transform to the preceding vowel. < 1325537552 12067 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes I read that. < 1325537572 355410 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The result of this is that 'or' sounds like 'aw'. < 1325537624 298021 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't really explain anything though. so "aw" becomes "awr"? < 1325537626 444122 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linking_and_intrusive_R < 1325537650 753862 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hi. < 1325537696 209971 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, you twat. < 1325537701 120694 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :'aw' stays as 'aw'. < 1325537714 441706 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because 'or' now sounds like 'aw', 'or' and 'aw' sound the same. < 1325537719 829319 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is ridiculously simple. < 1325537722 41282 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ^ < 1325537722 577637 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so "awr" < 1325537728 378265 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :with an r < 1325537731 693626 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1325537738 749994 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jesus christ you really are an idiot. < 1325537742 743830 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The whole point of non-rhotic is that there's no r's < 1325537747 15255 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :They both sound like 'aw'. < 1325537749 428456 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rho is Greek for "r" < 1325537750 456703 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, um no? < 1325537756 46801 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: ^ < 1325537765 492399 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :'r' is still present if not followed by a consonant. < 1325537794 405823 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :repeating what non-rhotic means is not going to help explain anything. < 1325537839 409101 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but I have explained precisely what the deal is with 'sore' and 'saw', and you have apparently not listened to a word I said. < 1325537848 859066 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, do you see the problem with explaining things to kallisti? < 1325537891 370685 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linking_and_intrusive_R explains it perfectly < 1325537907 961184 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: *MWAHAHAHA* < 1325537945 289463 :HURR_DURR!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :copumpkin < 1325537994 24236 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically in some non-rhotic accents an /r/ is added between two consecutive vowel sounds and other weird places. < 1325538015 715884 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's just... how it works. it can not be explained by the removal of /r/ sounds because that makes /no fucking sense/ < 1325538041 806500 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's right! kallisti has figured it out! < 1325538062 470965 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm calling up Jimbo Wales and telling him his Wikipedia is wrong; some guy on the internet knows it makes no fucking sense. < 1325538076 546602 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can be explained by the removal of /r/ sounds in some positions, followed by analogous insertion of r in the opposite positions < 1325538079 945445 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Wikipedia doesn't disagree with what I just said? < 1325538085 501801 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes. < 1325538108 371172 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, you know, what makes you an idiot isn't any particular stupidity; it's your complete inability to admit that you may not understand something. < 1325538116 136168 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1325538116 314971 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I know less about rhotic accents now than I have ever known before < 1325538136 480189 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whenever you don't quite see how something fits together, you decide it's probably wrong, and then make it a point of pride to prove this. < 1325538140 932131 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote I think I know less about rhotic accents now than I have ever known before < 1325538143 969413 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: no < 1325538145 224236 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :792) I think I know less about rhotic accents now than I have ever known before < 1325538168 598128 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never knew anything about rhotic accents, and now I still know nothing about them. *happy* < 1325538194 361971 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: think of it as /r/ gradually changing from a phoneme into a non-phonemic way of separating adjacent vowels < 1325538216 619360 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, yes, *you do*. < 1325538236 122895 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the change being/stopping at different stages in different dialects. < 1325538244 525951 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you'd just have a little humility from time to time and accept that you don't know everything, you might actually know a lot more than you do. < 1325538261 905399 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I don't know everything, obviously. < 1325538292 813721 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But instead you pretend that you do, or that you understand things just as well as the person explaining it, and they get frustrated and you get steadily more annoying as time moves on. < 1325538365 635893 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: depends on the subject. for example, I'm fully aware of what a rhotic consonant is, and when it's being placed in weirds it normally doesn't go in. < 1325538399 123691 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, oh? Then why did you need to read that WP article? < 1325538406 892923 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely you knew everything it contained beforehand? < 1325538429 921073 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: hey stop leaping to conclusions about other people's behavior! oh wait... < 1325538448 261899 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not everything no. I clicked it to learn more details. But I had a general idea of what a non-rhotic accent was beforehand, but was still confused by the sudden insertion of rhotic consonants. < 1325538490 115498 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notes that " I bet you say saw with an r don't you. asshole how can you rationalize that to make any sense at all? like... what is the thought process behind adding random r's to words that don't have r's" does not really sound like someone with an understanding of rhoticity, without actually getting involved in this trainwreck through cunning use of /me. < 1325538576 695951 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :co-cromulent should be a word < 1325538588 941150 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, and yet you approached it with an air of smug pedantry, not confusion. < 1325538591 665307 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :not quite sure what it means though < 1325538609 589112 :iconmaster[1]!~iconmaste@cpe-74-79-18-174.twcny.res.rr.com QUIT :Quit: Ayup, this is a quit message. < 1325538630 147306 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no TOPIC #esoteric :Welcome to the world championship in conclusion leaping | This channel Copywrong 0 YOLD Rogger Sarcridh - All lights reversed (Except for things copyrighted by Gregor Richards) | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1325538633 581669 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I'm generally not confused when I don't know everything. ??? < 1325538643 233014 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is the normal state of affairs. < 1325538648 318392 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but sure < 1325538653 47311 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sound smug. often. < 1325538656 397820 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has this feeling that was a bad idea < 1325538658 800356 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : not everything no. I clicked it to learn more details. But I had a general idea of what a non-rhotic accent was beforehand, but was still confused by the sudden insertion of rhotic consonants. < 1325538674 231454 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you please, *please* try to check what you say for consistency? < 1325538717 164126 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott TOPIC #esoteric :Welcome to the world championship in oerjan being as passive-aggressively judgemental as he possibly can | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1325538720 778525 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: can't be arsed. < 1325538751 101772 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :good world championship for oerjan, as he is (by definition?) the only contestant < 1325538793 131883 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :I KNEW IT < 1325538798 334368 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very good. Can you now concede the discussion? < 1325538806 597275 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagine if there weren't jokes to deflect criticism with < 1325538813 694543 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the human race would be so fucked < 1325538814 587328 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Welcome to the world championship in passive-aggressively communicating only through /topic < 1325538831 889220 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I see what you're saying though. It makes sense. I can often be smug. Is that what I'm supposed to concede? then yes. < 1325538840 749687 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no TOPIC #esoteric :Welcome to the world championship in recursive passive aggression | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1325538860 286459 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I was expecting a different concession < 1325538867 555743 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, OK, I'm sorry; I forgot that your brain is context-free. < 1325538880 707459 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: depends on how much sleep I've had. :P < 1325538887 331498 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not fair to argue with someone with such a condition when I have a fully-functioning long-term memory. < 1325538943 606325 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1325538962 369650 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1325538969 166966 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I think perhaps I don't take a moment to consider that I don't have all the information before forming conclusions. Is this what you mean? < 1325539057 529886 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is a suitably flattering way of putting "I am so arrogant that I assume that things are stupid even when people who know much more about them than me tell me otherwise". < 1325539080 28049 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no TOPIC #esoteric :Welcome to the world championship in recursive world championships | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1325539099 17362 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :not passive-aggressive world championships? < 1325539099 196237 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 TOPIC #esoteric :Welcome to the world champion | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1325539112 924145 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, when did anything turn recursive anyway? < 1325539119 267970 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: we had to expand due to great demand < 1325539175 793668 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, when we remembered that we're a programming channel, so recursion jokes are required. < 1325539193 53295 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I... still think it's stupid. But at least understand how it happens. < 1325539195 628053 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I saw xkcd 132 for the first time, the only guitar hero I had played was 3, which has a metallica song < 1325539211 954021 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: when elliott berated me for berating Phantom_Hoover for berating kallisti < 1325539228 203562 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan is my knight in shining armor. < 1325539231 461905 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wasn't being passive-aggressive though, i mentioned you directly by name < 1325539232 934371 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :always coming to my rescue. < 1325539244 689316 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: but... adding the word recursion doesn't necessarily make it a recursion joke < 1325539246 44731 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ah. sorry about that. < 1325539257 533027 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, I'm sorry, are you new to recursion jokes? < 1325539268 986286 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i may not be entirely sure about the term < 1325539272 757699 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You seem to be under the impression that they're meant to be funny, or even make sense. < 1325539312 829095 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I expect such things of jokes < 1325539324 833738 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :not making sense, but being funny, I expect of them < 1325539363 733489 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It makes sense, since you ignore the letter r and /r/ just becomes this thing you put between consecutive vowels. But still "non-rhotic" is a poor name for such a thing because it /adds/ rhotic consonants. The name is inherently contradictory and that's why I thought it was stupid. < 1325539363 952407 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: We should do induction jokes instead? < 1325539375 469114 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually already my first topic change was recursive, as i certainly included myself in the reference < 1325539377 974682 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :When you type "induction" into Google it should say "did you mean: inductio". < 1325539385 883623 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Inductio! < 1325539387 345986 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Until it ends up at "did you mean: base case". < 1325539404 2361 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Sounds like a Harry Potter spell. < 1325539417 789398 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I:[NDUCTION]) < 1325539431 980405 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you can do a spell to one person, and you can do a spell to someone next to them if you've already done it to them, then you can use inductio to do it to the whole world simultaneously. < 1325539437 270787 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or should that be (I : [N D U C T I O N]) < 1325539453 22134 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Is that an Inception joke (you will die if it is). < 1325539472 266127 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no I think it's a linked list joke. < 1325539473 378893 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You just made a crappy recursion joke with induction! < 1325539475 21647 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if that's even possible. < 1325539478 242920 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Recursion jokes are meant to be recursion jokes. < 1325539479 853373 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can do them too! < 1325539487 528295 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you think a color specification for printing file, should be: CMYK + a value to use on grayscale-only printers + either black/white/normal to select what happens on pure black/white printer < 1325539509 28134 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if this recursion joke were funny, it would be a recursion joke, but as it isn't it's just a joke < 1325539513 814729 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yo dawg I heard you like induction so we put an i in your nduction so you can pattern match while you recurse. < 1325539515 784212 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :see, people, you need base cases! < 1325539522 834342 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: please op me < 1325539532 850657 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you all know what you have done < 1325539533 386914 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: who are you planning to kick/ban? < 1325539534 536117 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, no, as it isn't it's just a recursion reference. < 1325539540 186262 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: why would you not just calculate the brightness of the RGB value for a grayscale printer? Hmm, I guess that doesn't always turn out perfectly. < 1325539549 205863 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you, oerjan and Phantom_Hoover, but I might let you back in after a few minutes < 1325539562 466048 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders what answer to that question would actually get him opped. < 1325539570 629723 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: but it sounds as though you have basically two distinct images in one file. How would you deal with such a file in an image editor, for example? < 1325539571 344121 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: what about a CGYRMBK printer? < 1325539584 853842 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: What is a CGYRMBK printer? < 1325539586 999928 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm not sure there is one, but it at least makes me curious < 1325539598 961785 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: a printer that uses six colors of ink, plus black as an optimisation < 1325539605 235921 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :most people see, say, a cyan+yellow mix as green < 1325539613 200002 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the exact mix is slightly different for different people's eyes < 1325539622 970805 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and for a tetrachromat, you might not be able to do it at all < 1325539633 387666 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so using six channels rather than three makes sure you can control the color a lot more carefully < 1325539648 820865 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I guess it's only used in really high-end printing < 1325539649 178129 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they should just use one channel for every possible wavelength < 1325539660 543942 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the problem is finding one /ink/ for every possible wavelength < 1325539681 197399 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the best answer is probably not to mention anyone by name.. < 1325539682 667510 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :black ink mixed with a chemical that induces color blindness < 1325539683 597636 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes; printer techonology not work well if even intended for tetrachomat and so on; but computer display might be able to make one working for many wavelengths providing very high quality display of light < 1325539719 470810 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: well i left you off the list just in case < 1325539752 105110 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :here's a good answer: < 1325539764 53493 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose CGYRMBK would still be only high end printing though. I am not sure what happen if you want to print such a document on such a printer. Possibly you would just make up a new special command for this kind of printers < 1325539782 908295 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION would probably not ban very many people, but would have banned lament (or whoever he was) when he was literally just spamming a single number for pages. < 1325539789 837746 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is just common sense. < 1325539791 268669 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was mathnerd < 1325539793 635720 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since the DVI format allows you to use whatever new kind of special commands you want to make up < 1325539796 537968 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, if we're using one channel for each possible wavelength < 1325539802 340886 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what wavelength do we use for #esoteric? < 1325539804 346892 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i assume ais523 knew i meant a one-time oppage < 1325539808 34251 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: octarine < 1325539812 626599 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, fair enough assumption < 1325539817 264184 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what's that in nanometres? < 1325539822 572726 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i < 1325539825 487700 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, 567nm. < 1325539854 950101 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was i as in i \in C < 1325539878 315756 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I figured it eventually, although it took a few tries < 1325539915 997006 :mr_schlauch!threeohthr@wololo.at.freebnc.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325539921 569946 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome mr_schlauch < 1325539925 508292 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :mr_schlauch: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page < 1325539953 649066 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah, I can't read the wololo in the hostname as anything but an Age of Empires reference < 1325539979 166544 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :freebnc.net? that sounds secur < 1325539979 564425 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :e < 1325539994 769517 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what would the b stand for there? < 1325540018 936732 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I see you've tactfully disappeared from this thread of discussion. :P < 1325540021 80040 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: err? < 1325540030 284255 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I know what a VNC is, but not a BNC < 1325540037 66766 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: but so has mr_schlauch < 1325540042 824127 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: bouncer < 1325540048 375267 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I see < 1325540062 421060 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :free bouncer -> give your irc password to random people with no reason to be nice to you :) < 1325540068 818064 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, yes, for much the same reasons as my tactful disappearance from conversations with brick walls. < 1325540076 34787 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: not identified < 1325540078 579233 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so no password being given < 1325540086 460093 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that doesn't make the idea of a free bnc any more secure < 1325540102 884425 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: but you'll leave the walls offended! < 1325540125 34881 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, they might not let me lean on them! < 1325540217 851016 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I was under the impression I had conceded somewhat. and the topic interests me because I do take a conscious effort to learn and grow as a person. I agree that I can be stubborn but I believe there's a bit of an attribution bias going on. < 1325540235 121062 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :breaking news Phantom_Hoover admits to wanting to lean on kallisti < 1325540239 152880 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :my ship....... has sailed.................... < 1325540257 405549 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1325540260 266965 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti makes conscious effort to lean and grow as a person < 1325540265 348257 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :he is a pea plant?? < 1325540269 553328 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1325540282 595698 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mendel would be proud. < 1325540287 996458 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :he is my godhead. < 1325540331 261429 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: hmm, or maybe not attribution bias, but a lack of self-awareness in how I present myself. < 1325540371 120910 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote oh right: Frooxius, you wouldn't happen to live in Hexham, would you? No, sorry. phew How about Finland? Why would I live there? That's a *very* good question. Why would anyone? < 1325540373 802317 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :793) oh right: Frooxius, you wouldn't happen to live in Hexham, would you? No, sorry. phew How about Finland? Why would I live there? That's a *very* good question. Why would anyone? < 1325540387 203013 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHATDIDIDO? Oo < 1325540390 864167 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was gonna addquote that at the time < 1325540392 698695 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but got too lazy < 1325540400 139814 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Frooxius: terrible things < 1325540401 746375 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :prepare to be banned < 1325540404 421152 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :nuuuuuuu < 1325540409 23720 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION flails and runs in funny shapes < 1325540417 103538 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The fact that you seem to define "a conscious effort to learn and grow as a person" as "stubbornly refusing to let go of any misunderstanding when people try to explain things to me" says it all, really. < 1325540429 874343 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are funny shapes < 1325540464 187266 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Octahedra < 1325540465 877165 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lemonoid < 1325540479 747193 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :triangulum bisectoids < 1325540485 927289 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rhombidodecahedron < 1325540490 649221 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :dual of a pentagonal antiprism < 1325540502 496104 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :alexander horned potatogons < 1325540506 779283 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: not really, no. < 1325540523 718200 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : alexander horned potatogons < 1325540523 896648 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :vigintihedra < 1325540529 990401 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: thanks, i know what to name my child now < 1325540546 407427 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alexander Horned Potatogon Hird? < 1325540553 44227 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if the child is female? < 1325540560 197539 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alex is a female name. < 1325540575 700196 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But Alexander is not. < 1325540583 789169 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could be! < 1325540589 15039 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alexia is a female name, and a neurological condition. < 1325540609 23706 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, if I ever have a daughter I will name her that and then snigger whenever I hear her name. < 1325540622 669293 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :File under "why Phantom_Hoover must never reproduce". < 1325540626 503407 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it was Alexandra? I guess Alexis could be a name too. < 1325540645 254341 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :— Elliott "I will name my child Azimuth" Hird. < 1325540648 718207 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: If they're a girl I'll just swap it around: Potatogon Horned Alexander Hird. < 1325540649 651514 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, Alexandria. < 1325540653 436738 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SHUT UP AZIMUTH IS A COOL NAME < 1325540655 126220 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That's a city.) < 1325540655 660787 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :although < 1325540658 342830 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not as cool as < 1325540660 663937 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: o rly? :P < 1325540662 269083 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh < 1325540668 336649 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, die, seriously. < 1325540669 943391 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope it's the coolest < 1325540690 319448 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: rest assured I know Alexandria is a city because it exists in the United States as well. < 1325540694 534510 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise I would be oblivious. < 1325540696 352931 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: im naming my kid Orly < 1325540710 176625 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :middle name < 1325540711 327934 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nowai < 1325540714 303438 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because < 1325540719 434124 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :iw ant my child to grow up with a healthy sense of self-loathing < 1325540720 326992 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and despair < 1325540736 649066 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wouldn't Alexander Horned Potatogon have the same effect? < 1325540758 726780 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't have to worry about naming his children because he plans to not have any ever. < 1325540761 621935 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, this is for my second kid < 1325540773 484168 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: so controversial < 1325540774 845741 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(insert obvious jokes, ha ha ha ) < 1325540785 819892 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: alexander horned potatogon orly nowai hird < 1325540794 93247 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck it crossed the line of terrible back into awesome < 1325540800 780789 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they can just sign things as -AHPON < 1325540806 181948 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott NICK :ahpon < 1325540814 587898 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what ahpon < 1325540816 554529 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ahponh < 1325540822 674996 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahpon could easily be their pseudonym as an electronic or hip hop artist. < 1325540829 104065 :ahpon!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: alexander horned potatogon orly nowai < 1325540838 702180 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : WHATDIDIDO? Oo <-- you got innocently involved in a driveby quoting accident < 1325540854 105705 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Bahahahaha nobody will guess who I am if I refer to myself by my initials!" < 1325540864 31109 :ahpon!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: but < 1325540864 746167 :ahpon!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahpon < 1325540865 856983 :ahpon!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :si cool name < 1325540874 729132 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHATDIDIDONOW? Oo < 1325540881 954706 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahpon: you look stupider with that name < 1325540892 90120 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`words --eng-gb --canadia 25 < 1325540896 769701 :ahpon!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Frooxius: packed too many words into one and lost your nose < 1325540898 595721 :ahpon!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott NICK :elliott < 1325540898 775562 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :engree meter noncarbering obia conocon nitin aftwott diblasmil stalatickli declack chic sweel exill tadtitin gasta psychon unproposte baffice scoholistico hetteraph archille dussarct wipentit weitmen treu < 1325540904 270673 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :engree < 1325540906 812943 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott NICK :engree < 1325540910 567131 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION goes to search for his nose < 1325540930 7764 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about Stramillicon Tibia Rapunda Alexander Horned Potatogon Orly Nowai? < 1325540932 507509 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :psychon is my new internet handle < 1325540956 349050 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A noncarbering declack? < 1325540960 319002 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: that's so unproposte < 1325540972 579420 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : I thought it was Alexandra? I guess Alexis could be a name too. <-- i believe in ancient times, alexis was a male name. < 1325540972 757823 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: tibia is the best part of that < 1325540977 85265 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 JOIN :#esoteric < 1325540979 210655 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because people will ask me like < 1325540981 751150 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :why did you name your kid that < 1325540982 684352 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i'll go < 1325540983 934258 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably a component of a Dussarct. < 1325540988 473782 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well tibia is my favourite body part after alll hah aha < 1325540995 182755 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: tibia is a real thing dude........ < 1325541006 95736 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes? < 1325541016 400487 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Honestly, fancy not knowing what a tibia is. < 1325541024 893242 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you are scottish < 1325541045 53610 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :engree: it would be more reasonable to assume an American doesn't know what a tibia is. < 1325541068 663000 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well yes, we do all kick each other in the shins so much that the tibia has been bred out over time. < 1325541095 780541 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: are you unable to twist your leg joints? < 1325541114 96485 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1325541116 100518 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why would you want to do that? < 1325541136 243098 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :to do traditional folk dance of course. < 1325541141 497355 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :as a scot this is important. < 1325541153 926880 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :rhotic or non-rhotic folk dance? < 1325541167 771735 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one where you add a bunch of r's, probably non-rhotic. < 1325541222 993101 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- kallisti "gosh i'm really only smug about these things by accident" kallisti < 1325541245 653913 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :only sometimes. :> < 1325541252 514610 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the rhotic or non-rhotic unladen swallow dance < 1325541282 716079 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nitin Aftwott could be a name < 1325541323 533522 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :stalatickly: prone to giggle uncontrollably when touching things in caves < 1325541331 716935 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :engree: also that wasn't really smugness. < 1325541342 268378 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :or when touched by caves? < 1325541343 797872 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was a joke. ha ha < 1325541347 593159 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325541351 75236 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :caves usually don't poke at people though < 1325541375 652642 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever you do, don't cross the weitmen < 1325541382 246226 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: jokes can be smug < 1325541383 139071 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I imagine this could be Nitin Aftwott's area of expertise < 1325541392 652217 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially when they're indistinguishable from smartassery < 1325541402 704824 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and may make people more likely to see smug intent where there is none in the future! < 1325541406 860948 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevds can be sleepy < 1325541409 256675 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goodnight < 1325541411 940106 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-5-210.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: Goodbye < 1325541412 116095 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: dude < 1325541412 744981 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :its < 1325541413 281164 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :nitin aftwott, spelunker < 1325541415 250805 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :10 fucking pm < 1325541434 305621 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :engree: hey at least I was being accurate! < 1325541449 549251 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it probably would be the non-rhotic one. if non-rhotic dances were a thing. < 1325541450 665115 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :engree: 11 pm in CET < 1325541460 823242 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is ngevd from hexham? < 1325541488 525494 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1325541506 425366 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: i think you just outdid Vorpal < 1325541519 190710 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: regardless of style, you dance like an unproposte baffice < 1325541549 622397 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hmm, at what? < 1325541550 626128 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: undid him how? < 1325541554 907484 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: yes, ngevd is from hexham. < 1325541560 507530 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er *outdid < 1325541562 194775 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's sort of what started the whole hexham thing. < 1325541566 528749 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: obliviousness < 1325541574 786262 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: obliviousness to what? < 1325541579 321519 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha ha ha ha ha < 1325541580 754481 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha < 1325541584 35657 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ha < 1325541584 212706 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha. ha. ha ha. ha ha ha. ha ha ha ha ha. ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ...too much output! < 1325541587 541765 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION facepalm < 1325541610 790172 :qfr!void@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is that, a laughing Fibonacci? < 1325541619 51396 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :whenever someone says facepalm I think of like a really cool kung fu move. < 1325541626 670622 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :where you wack someone in the nose with your palm. < 1325541643 230431 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :qfr: yes. < 1325541651 926914 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I don't think I ever saw the start of the hexham thing, it was already going when I first saw it < 1325541718 659255 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the hexham-helsinki-hell axis < 1325541749 966145 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :engree: I guess it's wrong to be smug. unless you actually are superior because you know more! < 1325541753 768168 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hexland and finham < 1325541763 385789 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :engree: this is the lesson I have learned from #esoteric < 1325541776 634823 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: well, between someone who's smug and wrong and someone who's smug and right... < 1325541788 606316 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :alternatively: two wrongs, etc. < 1325541819 543169 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION passive-aggressively twiddles his thumbs < 1325541858 19579 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :engree: I think I was half-right in that non-rhotic is a bit of a misnomer. But it's also not! it's craaaazy. < 1325541864 98333 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: do you really think just fidgeting and complaining whenever anything like this comes up actually accomplishes anything < 1325541888 888504 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :WE WOULD ALL JUST GET ALONG IF WE NEVER EVER EXAMINED PEOPLE AND BEHAVIOURS < 1325541917 6388 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION feels that he is not not getting along with anyone right now. < 1325541917 185589 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe we could make the channel so you never see what anyone else writes < 1325541924 527275 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :should prove conflict free < 1325541966 358984 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: I'm not not-getting-along-with-you, I'm just trying to explain why your behaviour is perceived as smug rather than eager to learn < 1325541999 473605 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :engree: and now I understand. so cool. < 1325542023 989167 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::> smug face. < 1325542027 158907 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :...which is why complaining that these things are ~drama~ is way more disruptive than talking about these things. < 1325542040 729144 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :drama? where? < 1325542142 19619 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also oerjan's not really disruptive. I like that he defends me (not necessarily what I'm actually saying). :D < 1325542150 160866 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore he is not disruptive < 1325542152 170757 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION good logic. < 1325542160 913199 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is none. and don't take it too personally, he acts this way whenever anybody disagrees with the conduct of another, ever < 1325542213 279999 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: shame on you. < 1325542235 953303 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zetro: oh and fuck you for being so quiet < 1325542237 933960 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :xandy: you too < 1325542252 347759 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hates everyone. rageignores everyone. < 1325542252 506226 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : hmm, I don't think I ever saw the start of the hexham thing, it was already going when I first saw it < 1325542301 63242 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was basically "Taneb shows up, mentions he's from Northumberland, I take a shot in the dark and ask him if he's from Hexham, both he and elliott have heart attacks." < 1325542326 68282 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe when I sleep I become Taneb, go back in time, and act out the day as him. < 1325542343 87157 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Calculation of Chinese New Year: http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/img_14/chinese-new-year.png < 1325542349 355889 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also you have memory loss of what you did as elliott < 1325542357 724518 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :which makes it way more convincing. < 1325542366 276072 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: why did they have heart attacks? < 1325542408 269796 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: What's a really small, boring town in Sweden? < 1325542413 780816 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, not really small. < 1325542416 727566 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stockholm. < 1325542418 314895 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, pop. 10k. < 1325542427 451112 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kinda ruraly, countrysidey-located. < 1325542429 831011 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha, trick question: all of them! < 1325542432 406461 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe has a market. < 1325542433 359496 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ha. < 1325542440 520462 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No but seriously what's the equivalent of that, just name one. < 1325542459 363540 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someplace people in the area will know about but people on the other side of the country might not. < 1325542464 235136 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I will be making a conscious effort to not presume that I'm correct about disagreements when I don't fully understand the topic. (Note this is different from not acting smug as I don't think I can do that :P ) < 1325542468 40220 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fagersta perhaps < 1325542483 513190 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: OK, so imagine there's a guy on IRC in a small, tight-knight community who's from Fagersta. < 1325542502 205659 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : maybe we could make the channel so you never see what anyone else writes < 1325542507 439656 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: A few years later, someone else comes in, and everything is normal until they mention they live in Västmanland county. < 1325542510 198554 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just /ignore *!*@* ALL < 1325542519 213483 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Someone says "Please tell me you're not from Fagersta", and they go "How did you know???". < 1325542541 89314 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, it's probably not that good, because people I know from fagersta allegedly run into other people from fagersta all the time < 1325542557 237311 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D < 1325542562 351420 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha. ha. ha ha. < 1325542577 83351 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: OK, let's put it this way: Hexham is known for having a big ol' church and a market. < 1325542579 303408 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :3-order Fibonacci laugh has been permitted. < 1325542582 159144 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Västmanland, the land of vast men. < 1325542585 532016 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: It's mostly houses. < 1325542588 686986 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And boring shops. < 1325542595 945106 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And boring people. < 1325542615 111311 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :where I live is mostly Anytown, USA < 1325542617 887668 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: And there are inexplicably two people who (a) like esolangs, (b) read Homestuck and (c) are in the same IRC channel, without (d) having ever consciously met or communicated before, ever. < 1325542623 2472 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If someone from Nowhere, Ireland turns up I will have to leave and never come back. < 1325542638 966904 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Oh my god, you have to ask everyone you meet whether they read Homestuck next time you end up there. < 1325542647 60240 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And carry a gun so you can shoot them. < 1325542650 548894 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's prevention. < 1325542678 910231 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1325542680 974623 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"unitary authority" is that kind of like a county? < 1325542702 173200 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no that's "ceremonial county" I guess one is a political entity and the other is formal/historic? < 1325542735 178840 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : there is none. and don't take it too personally, he acts this way whenever anybody disagrees with the conduct of another, ever <-- i'm not really against pointing things out in a polite way, i just cannot keep from rolling my eyes at what feels like recursion of self-obliviousness. including my own. < 1325542759 894969 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no unitary authority is more like a state district, kind of. < 1325542767 485546 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least in size. < 1325542810 599190 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well, there's a difference between rolling your eyes and implying everyone else is wasting their time... if there's a recurring problem that comes up in-channel, then bringing it up is more likely to solve it than pretending it doesn't happen :P < 1325542850 754699 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tends to find that the main problem with metadiscussion is that there's always somebody really loud who wants to pop all the layers away... I suspect this problem occurs in programming too :P < 1325542881 108441 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck this discussion. too meta. < 1325542888 563451 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is like metametametadiscussion now. < 1325542897 777174 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This discussion is a RationalWiki trigger, can it stop? < 1325542912 273293 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :discussion about the discussion about the metadiscussions < 1325542934 756465 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: My favourite thing about Stack Overflow is that they have a separate site running the same software exclusively for metadiscussion, with its /own reputation system/. < 1325542942 947705 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are people with more meta rep than main-site rep. < 1325542953 962622 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Nowhere, Ireland is named after a pile of stones. Seriously.) < 1325542954 796763 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can set /meta reputation bounties/ on questions there. < 1325542955 908800 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's go back to the main discussion, where we're just assholes to one another. < 1325543014 3461 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Fuck you. < 1325543022 622999 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan taking me seriously in 3, 2, 1... < 1325543054 42215 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :engree: is there a word for when you cause something not to happen by predicting that it will happen? < 1325543057 109420 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :kind of like a jinx I guess. < 1325543073 419640 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :*.net *.split < 1325543073 733345 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@222.122.156.78 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1325543073 733519 :yiyus!1242712427@je.je.je QUIT :*.net *.split < 1325543073 733679 :SimonRC_!~sc@fof.durge.org QUIT :*.net *.split < 1325543089 146577 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@222.122.156.78 JOIN :#esoteric < 1325543105 883318 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: self-defeating prophecy < 1325543118 465555 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds good. < 1325543126 575254 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325543126 732727 :yiyus!1242712427@je.je.je JOIN :#esoteric < 1325543126 732900 :SimonRC_!~sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1325543141 698422 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I imagine a netsplit as like a huge storm seperated a bunch of ships.. < 1325543147 467287 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or an earthquake. < 1325543171 219142 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : oerjan taking me seriously in 3, 2, 1... <-- please be more polite than that. you are getting close to my limit there. < 1325543179 922921 :Zuu!~zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric < 1325543180 914511 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have a limit? < 1325543193 807542 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd've thought spamming the channel to the condemnation of all would cross it. < 1325543205 794915 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: hey i _did_ ban fax. < 1325543216 46517 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, because nobody asked you to? < 1325543236 915334 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: That was a joke based on your repeated tendency to miss such in-context ironies. < 1325543255 672497 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: But yes, your limit is defined per person, and is approximately ten thousand ceilings lower for me than for most other people. < 1325543286 934922 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you're not going to step up to the responsibility of banning e.g. blatant spammers, you really shouldn't threaten people with your op powers. < 1325543394 739289 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :engree: you realize i was joking in my ^^ message? < 1325543432 472656 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, doesn't make what he said any less true. < 1325543467 114575 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Fair enough, but the reason I missed it is that it's sufficiently similar to things you've said in the past. < 1325543470 820801 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I take my comments back. < 1325543498 47716 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey if it needed to be said... < 1325543524 259369 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I put them back on the table! < 1325543535 733926 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SOMEONE PLEASE TAKE THESE COMMENTS I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO WITH THEM < 1325543551 457612 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION nails one of them up on the eastern wall < 1325543608 380285 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :engree: take yer comments and shove 'em up yer ass! < 1325543639 152424 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION founds #esoteric-meta < 1325543644 110473 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sets mode +b *!*@* #esoteric-meta < 1325543647 483494 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I['m soorrry I 'mtired) < 1325543657 793706 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :m['e to 'o < 1325543661 490123 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not really) < 1325543667 830595 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also that MathNerd314 event was because the whole thing started so ridiculously i couldn't take it seriously. < 1325543682 100297 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1325543753 817040 :DCliche!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325543765 188894 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*n < 1325543782 687080 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was quite an experience i must admit < 1325543802 346050 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i lost it at "i am the singularity" < 1325543890 417010 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`words 10 < 1325543895 867741 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :sitalk mecut ted folson leiset rehen pantauth uuiorma cyclam han < 1325543913 918329 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :did freenode reset the dates on all the ban lists again < 1325543920 602944 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :cyclam = pokemon < 1325543938 470551 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pantauth = pokemon < 1325543945 905314 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1325543949 439047 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's irritating when you cannot distinguish old bans from new ones < 1325543955 947645 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :leiset = pharmecutical < 1325543977 980526 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was the mathnerd event? < 1325543999 689497 :FireFly!firefly@unaffiliated/firefly QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1325544008 4629 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log mathnerd.*> [0-9]*$ < 1325544014 36932 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uuiorma Rehen is probably a finnish name < 1325544027 277004 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1325544030 947416 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1325544052 726245 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, case sensitive? lack of quoting for the space? < 1325544060 423938 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log mathnerd.*>.[0-9]*$ < 1325544067 243743 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-02-18.txt:22:52:01: Hask = (->) < 1325544099 412007 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log mathnerd...>.[0-9]*$ < 1325544105 514846 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1325544114 905375 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log mathnerd.*>.*[0-9]$ < 1325544121 438541 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2010-04-25.txt:21:12:09: http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=%28t_1+%2B+w*t_2+%2B+w^2*t_3%29^3+%2B+%28t_1+%2B+w^2*t_2+%2B+w*t_3%29^3+with+w+%3D+e^%282+i+pi+%2F+3%29 < 1325544123 659115 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log mathnerd.*>.[0-9]+$ < 1325544130 962179 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1325544131 121264 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric : Hask = (->) < 1325544134 752763 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :^^ lol < 1325544152 733931 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm wait < 1325544178 651187 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log mathnerd.*> < 1325544185 107318 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2010-10-30.txt:21:58:41: that has to change... I want computer typography! < 1325544211 774730 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah obviously it never really happened. < 1325544229 797704 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm < 1325544243 659627 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log mathnerd.*i am the singularity < 1325544249 498380 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2012-01-02.txt:22:44:03: `log mathnerd.*i am the singularity < 1325544259 598445 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I get what he's trying to say, but saying that Hask is literally equal to (->) is kind of silly.`log mathnerd.*>.*\d < 1325544269 197366 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oopse < 1325544270 346145 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log mathnerd[3].*i am the singularity < 1325544277 7369 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1325544298 284967 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log mathnerd.*\d\s*$ < 1325544305 60206 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2010-05-04.txt:01:54:25: !haskell flip (-) 1 2 < 1325544322 897803 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log mathnerd.*>\s*\d\s*$ < 1325544328 842480 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1325544333 320716 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep never happened. < 1325544346 504747 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log (?i)mathnerd.*>\s*\d\s*$ < 1325544352 928633 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1325544358 479216 :FireFly!firefly@firefly.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1325544379 392463 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually was that when glogbot was down? < 1325544401 163277 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think hackego was down. < 1325544479 416078 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1325544520 69201 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is sad. AW servers are so crappy, a friend's trying to get a list of all property keeps crashing a world. < 1325544949 982889 :Zuu_!~zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric < 1325544993 532756 :Zuu!~zuu@unaffiliated/zuu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1325545042 732471 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, I would yell at you for bringing up AW, but it's pathologically fascinating. < 1325545242 742553 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1325545260 486273 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Hask = (->) < 1325545260 645638 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : ^^ lol < 1325545262 865736 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's correct < 1325545264 332681 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :pathological and fascinating < 1325545310 640172 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :engree: the Hask category is literally equivalent to the function type? < 1325545339 302540 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: if you look at category-extras you will see the line < 1325545340 620011 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: The morphisms is, I think < 1325545342 365090 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :type Hask = (->) < 1325545351 422208 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes the morphism is the function type < 1325545356 102418 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the objects are the types. < 1325545394 425260 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :a morphism is _a_ function < 1325545421 900936 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the question I ask is: are categories their morphisms? < 1325545429 491347 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this seems incorrect to me. < 1325545439 184658 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: it's surely irrlevant, as mathnerd was almost certainly explaining some signature or declaration in category-extras < 1325545442 119141 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*irrelevant < 1325545449 387243 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in haskell < 1325545451 461463 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src Category < 1325545451 939554 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source not found. :( < 1325545453 117378 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, they are. < 1325545456 606839 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck you lambdabot < 1325545460 931316 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :engree: ah okay. I suppose that's the flaw of taking logs out of context. < 1325545462 82795 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: it's one possible axiomatization of categories to only consider the morphisms < 1325545494 647454 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you define the morphisms without objects? < 1325545497 701017 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hmmm, I suppose the set of all morphisms does contain all of the relevant information... < 1325545498 337542 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Compositions? < 1325545504 55462 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: yes < 1325545529 244690 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(How does Hask work with functions being types?) < 1325545529 760360 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can identify the objects with the identity morphisms < 1325545550 37482 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: it doesn't... < 1325545552 893269 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Are functions-as-morphisms and functions-as-types separated?) < 1325545568 674442 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: a function is not a type < 1325545578 970057 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the morphisms are function _values_ < 1325545583 766877 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Int -> Int) isn't a type? < 1325545591 572514 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right. < 1325545614 93171 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :those category theorists should really have consulted with programmers before deciding on their terminology < 1325545655 97651 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those programmers should really have consulted with me before trying category theory wait i am become kallisti < 1325545698 982775 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is Cartesian closed category, it has something to do with that things < 1325545704 98619 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: what's funny is that I never actually say things like that. < 1325545713 882519 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if I do I'm probably joking. < 1325545720 823553 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: as for making the set of morphisms between two objects into an object in itself, categories where you can do that nicely are called "cartesian closed categories". i'm not quite sure if Hask is one precisely or just approximately < 1325545724 674773 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey oerjan should I read Mac Lane < 1325545728 639819 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a self-deprecating manner, in fact. < 1325545741 70851 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :engree, he had things written on him? < 1325545755 7616 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Shut up all the cool kids refer to the book like that. < 1325545767 143847 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, self-deprecation doesn't make being stupid cool. < 1325545782 782927 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think the absence of genuine categorical products might mess it up slightly < 1325545790 861956 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: that's an interesting and irrelevant point. < 1325545806 146463 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, is this _|_ again? < 1325545849 378800 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: What Phantom_Hoover is trying to say is that you can't say things with impunity to mockery by declaring them jokes. (You're welcome, this would have taken 5 hours to communicate.) < 1325545890 620972 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :engree: since when do I even say "oh I am an expert on this matter this random person should have consulted me" without it being obviously in the context of some kind of humor? < 1325545960 55696 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : hey oerjan should I read Mac Lane <-- well although it's a standard recommendation, i haven't done so myself, so... < 1325545963 341821 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: That question should be directed at Phantom_Hoover, I just wanted to skip 5 hours of tedium. < 1325545987 768435 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: yeah iirc < 1325545992 531478 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I was hoping you'd read it so you could give me an authoritative warning it'd go way over my head :) < 1325546000 678347 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Won't Mac Lane be approaching it from a topological angle? < 1325546004 200839 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.O BitBucket has an option to do git < 1325546023 126319 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The reason I'm using BitBucket is because Gregor has me thinking that it may be easier < 1325546031 163889 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, that hg may be easier < 1325546042 91377 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :engree: hm it probably has a lot of advanced examples, at least < 1325546062 498826 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well the first i heard about mac lane was people saying it was just too much for them :P < 1325546076 466029 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then, it's likely most mathematicians don't know all of them either :P < 1325546076 624321 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :people who _actually know mathematics_!! < 1325546084 604131 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chapter VI. Monads and Algebras. < 1325546084 759851 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chapter VII. Monoids. < 1325546086 74412 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :good ordering < 1325546106 154704 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chapter VII: Monoids. A monoid is just a monad not necessarily in the category of endofunctors, what's the problem? < 1325546146 846797 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Endomorphisms of a category make a monoid too < 1325546287 875113 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1325546297 475295 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: One day I will know more category theory than you and THEN the tables will be TURNED. < 1325546301 400445 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :engree: i guess this may be one book where you're not expect to get all the way through :P < 1325546305 760848 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ed < 1325546312 697905 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :engree, I don't really know category theory? < 1325546322 175587 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :one day, coming now < 1325546327 568393 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: THAT IS WHY IT WILL BE EXCEEDINGLY EASY < 1325546349 553234 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm kind of baffled why you thought I did. < 1325546353 456085 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't. < 1325546356 508224 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION would prefer Categories for the Working Magician. < 1325546390 585394 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, page 1 doesn't look so bad < 1325546397 701541 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is checking the amazon preview :P < 1325546412 904658 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Behold, as I saw a functor in half! < 1325546458 641308 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"whenever possible we write f x and not f(x), omitting unnecessary parentheses." < 1325546467 202866 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: category theory was evidently doomed to end up in haskell from the start < 1325546480 791722 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously < 1325546520 93298 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh this is simpler than i expected < 1325546521 719847 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :although < 1325546522 710368 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm fairly sure the topology book with the surprise category theory was a graduate texts in mathematics book too. < 1325546523 820435 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is only page 4 < 1325546549 514437 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i really don't like these diagrams though :'( < 1325546558 759976 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they should make linear notation for them :P < 1325546572 536378 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :engree: what, the diagrams are like half the point < 1325546592 406813 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The whole point of the diagrams is that it gets rid of inelegant linear notation and lets you go from page to brain a lot faster. < 1325546660 207635 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :trying to grasp the snake lemma without diagrams - not pretty. < 1325546718 902769 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that i remember what the snake lemma actually said. < 1325546726 635033 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Phantom_Hoover: yeah but they're ugly :P < 1325546748 382424 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: so what did you read to learn cat theory (as i will henceforth call it, forever) < 1325546750 760028 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've always found them quite pretty. < 1325546820 116656 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :engree: i think it was partly osmosis. also homological algebra and algebraic topology books < 1325546846 501837 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION learned programming by osmosis. < 1325546849 596566 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I learn by Wikipedia and by Haskell and by ask people question in this channel < 1325546882 796222 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries the last one < 1325546886 613207 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what is category theory < 1325546887 603997 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and of course the K-theory used in my PhD < 1325546889 565828 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact I probably spent about 6 months slowly reading things about Perl before I ever actually wrote a real program. < 1325546920 800804 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It%27s_My_Turn_(film)#Accurate_Math_on_Film I'll watch this and learn the snake lemma < 1325546925 598669 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :* engree tries the last one < 1325546930 924722 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Algebraic topology books? < 1325546948 634034 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: ask people question in this channel < 1325546950 99644 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1325546951 209245 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover < 1325546971 701215 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :About algebraic topology? < 1325546982 149980 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :engree: ask me all of your category theory questions. I am the expert. < 1325546992 776076 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, grothendieck literally lives in the mountains in the middle of nowhere? < 1325546995 395639 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :awesome < 1325547035 857860 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nationality None (Stateless) < 1325547036 14348 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, how did he manage that one < 1325547105 968129 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In January 2010, Grothendieck wrote a letter to Luc Illusie. In this "Déclaration d'intention de non-publication", he states that essentially all materials that have been published in his absence have been done without his permission. He asks that none of his work should be reproduced in whole or in part, and even further that libraries containing such copies of his work remove them." < 1325547110 216522 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1325547137 868086 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :engree: Some countries actually state that you have the right to become stateless. < 1325547146 98819 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :engree: for example: did you know that a category is a set of objects, a set of morphisms from one source object to another target object, and an associative composition operator with an identity element on those morphisms? < 1325547147 282847 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You didn't hear about that? < 1325547156 483738 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :engree: yes you can learn these things and more by asking me questions. < 1325547161 456298 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why would I have? < 1325547170 218737 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Well, it came up in here. :p < 1325547179 261032 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :grr, the article doesn't explain how he became stateles < 1325547179 618969 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s < 1325547188 955279 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION considers citation needing it < 1325547203 276641 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Alexander_Grothendieck#Statelessness heh < 1325547241 813500 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You just CAN'T do cohomology of groups just after explaining Snake Lemma :D < 1325547242 7137 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :killingbuddha1 2 weeks ago < 1325547247 734320 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: help, I wandered into some bizarro youtube < 1325547256 228693 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh dear. < 1325547256 549882 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :everyone has a phd in mathematics < 1325547269 614138 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's also quite possible, given his age, that his citizenship is from a non-existant country. < 1325547272 329566 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@belyi3 Valid point: how do these things come about? The answer is: from algebraic topology. Starting with Euler characteristic and Betti numbers of surfaces, one generalises to homology and cohomology groups. Then some very smart people realised that the underlying operations in homological & cohomological computations can be abstractised so that only the algebraic remnants remain. So this is what you get. < 1325547272 488252 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like you, I'd love to see a more historically motivated account of cohomology. < 1325547272 488464 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :abc75 1 year ago < 1325547272 650436 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknown command, try @list < 1325547279 780955 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: HELP... < 1325547300 843345 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: born in germany, lives in france? doubt it < 1325547301 905650 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325547313 11261 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was the context in which the surprise cat theory came. < 1325547353 538956 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or something; I was kind of sleepy by that point and I had an interview the next day. < 1325547362 496810 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :engree: maybe it has something to do with East/West Germany? < 1325547365 191727 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :engree: Germany runs under jus sanguinis, and didn't grant citizenship to people who would otherwise be born stateless until more recently than that. < 1325547371 26813 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: fair enough < 1325547374 196425 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf, http://www.grothendieckcircle.org/ actually removed links to his papers < 1325547389 84137 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I should go on long trips with only textbooks to entertain me more; I learnt a lot on that trip.) < 1325547453 75177 :Zuu_!~zuu@unaffiliated/zuu QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1325547465 956319 :Zuu!~zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric < 1325547526 998583 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, his mother was German. < 1325547597 445910 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no way that he was *born* stateless, and his original citizenship would not have ceased to be in effect... < 1325547670 475307 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In 1939 Grothendieck came to France and lived in various camps for displaced persons with his mother, first at the Camp de Rieucros, and subsequently lived for the remainder of the war in the village of Le Chambon-sur-Lignon, where he was sheltered and hidden in local boarding-houses or pensions." -- maybe this? < 1325547717 562262 :qfr!void@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grothendieck is hilarious < 1325547751 52168 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, wait. The Nazis denaturalised people. < 1325547786 330246 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the law reinstating the citizenships only reinstates citizenship on people who take residence in Germany after 1945. < 1325547815 95149 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, he could actually have become stateless because of the Nazis, and continue to be stateless by merit of never having gone back to Germany. < 1325547827 234150 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : You just CAN'T do cohomology of groups just after explaining Snake Lemma :D <-- iirc that is correct, since the snake lemma is a building block several steps before defining (co)homology < 1325547851 675954 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, yes, it is perfectly feasible for him to be stateless. < 1325547862 380680 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And be able to gain a citizenship trivially. < 1325547890 599364 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :does stateless even have a practical impact on one's life? < 1325547893 771523 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ness < 1325547904 530225 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: absolutely < 1325547924 403610 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: You need to do some really annoying paperwork to do a few things. < 1325547931 51762 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. get a passport. < 1325547941 568094 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're still subject to all the laws in the area you reside in. < 1325547950 412682 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it basically just makes life more inconvenient. < 1325547957 540179 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone made a list of the most difficult and complicated kind of mathematics, and "motivic cohomology" was at the top. < 1325548005 90668 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I doubt you could get a job while stateless? < 1325548009 737474 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This status is largely because of post-WWII international law which requires nations to treat stateless people that happen to be in there country as, essentially, legal immigrants. < 1325548020 428977 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/there/their/ < 1325548087 114535 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what did the nazis actually do < 1325548097 202564 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :strip german citizenship of people they didn't like? < 1325548106 402445 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1325548107 551063 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, jews at least < 1325548124 586801 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: "Anyone they like" is by far the more accurate classification. < 1325548132 133471 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1325548138 234888 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jews were merely a significant proportion of that set. < 1325548150 867557 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. < 1325548152 202750 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't like < 1325548152 677641 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1325548162 785234 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"fuck this country im out" --hilter < 1325548166 788938 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"WE HAVE REVOKED THE CITIZENSHIP OF HITLER" :P < 1325548167 264558 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the former worked as well. < 1325548176 581124 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would provide a really convenient country for them to bomb, mind you. < 1325548197 277823 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"anyone they like" can mean that they chose whomever they wanted to be denaturalized. < 1325548248 205696 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyoned they liked to denaturalize. :P < 1325548350 145262 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :him iiy nam eiska llisti < 1325548456 769093 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: there's nothing about the set of morphisms of a category that requires it to form a bijective mapping right? < 1325548467 74371 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is that required? < 1325548569 492857 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1325548599 56008 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, no. < 1325548600 322943 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :a bijective mapping to what < 1325548628 862485 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, it's not required to be a set, it can be a proper class < 1325548646 551144 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :a bijective mapping from the object set to the object set. < 1325548649 368895 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, right. < 1325548671 522285 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. for one thing, the objects are not required to be conceptual sets. < 1325548689 67176 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er no I mean... < 1325548700 622954 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the morphisms aren't acting on sets of objects themselves. < 1325548733 322004 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed not. such a category is called "concrete". < 1325548759 382594 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is otherwise no requirement that morphisms be _functions_ < 1325548777 49053 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay here's a better question: a single morphism can act on multiple objects in the category, yes or no? < 1325548786 603653 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is there one source object < 1325548789 566896 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and one target object < 1325548795 745847 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. a single morphism always has exactly one. < 1325548799 824795 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :of each. < 1325548802 993753 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1325548814 898472 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you could think of the set of morphisms as a sort of mapping right? < 1325548828 325146 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1325548840 592320 :cswords_!~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1325548843 127544 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hom-set or whatever it's called. < 1325548859 817801 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is a mapping... or a relation I guess. < 1325548867 287459 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1325548873 36611 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes, Hom is a bifunctor from any category to Set < 1325548897 621225 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no no I mean... < 1325548916 797634 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :er locally small category, technically < 1325548928 923838 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I see I didn't mean hom. < 1325548937 794729 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh... I did < 1325548941 431807 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's two hom expressions < 1325548944 999855 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hom(a, b) and hom(C) < 1325548979 707534 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A homset is the set of morphisms, isn't it? < 1325548982 718633 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hom(C)... is a mapping right? it maps objects to objects in the category, right? < 1325548985 650924 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1325548991 571536 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: yes < 1325548999 241430 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hom(a,b) refers to the morphisms specifically between objects a and b. < 1325549003 879712 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think. < 1325549118 565561 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: i cannot find your hom(C) concept on the wp Morphism page < 1325549132 180554 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I think you can make a category from any digraph, where the objects are the nodes and the morphisms are the walks < 1325549137 739077 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :A class hom(C), whose elements are called morphisms or maps or arrows. Each morphism f has a unique source object a and target object b. < 1325549149 218966 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's on the category theory page. < 1325549159 311906 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so anyway I think I got the answer to my question, which is "no" < 1325549165 104459 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it is a different category than Haskell functions category < 1325549165 580060 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't know if I worded it correctly. < 1325549175 298840 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right < 1325549205 503782 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically the relation from C to C formed by hom(C) does not have to be a one-to-one mapping, is what I was asking. < 1325549242 838691 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: i still don't know what relation you are speaking about < 1325549249 681072 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay so.... < 1325549259 6313 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :a morphism... is basically like an ordered pair, right? < 1325549263 46838 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. < 1325549272 222079 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what makes it different. < 1325549318 763174 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :what makes it _similar_? two morphisms can have the same source and target, and still be different. < 1325549321 704089 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Well, I gave one example. There are others < 1325549340 722297 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh really? how does that work. < 1325549352 513773 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as I knew morphisms were just a source object and target object pair. < 1325549380 952988 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: No. One example is the digraphs like I said, another example is different functions between the types like in Haskell or in the category of sets < 1325549395 157054 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, but then how is that constructed. < 1325549397 693145 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and described < 1325549400 388099 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in category theory < 1325549430 447008 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :By morphism composition. < 1325549454 606877 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1325549461 580513 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: well commonly a morphism in Set may be a triple, (A,B,f) where A and B are the source and target and f : A -> B is a subset of A x B which is a function. < 1325549512 354935 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :A and B are included just to ensure the target and source maps really are defined. (actually A may be redundant.) < 1325549559 694098 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so then morphisms in Set are relations. < 1325549566 71647 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :,,, < 1325549582 181149 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: no, functions, but in set theory functions are represented as relations. < 1325549605 519949 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see. < 1325549608 143873 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc Rel is the category of all relations < 1325549631 436297 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION → sleep < 1325549633 654790 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1325549634 763812 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :of which Set is a subcategory < 1325549653 311124 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover seemed baffled that I would see "subset of A x B" and somehow think "relation" < 1325549686 515956 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but he left... < 1325549687 149282 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1325549740 507186 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i was a bit baffled too < 1325549754 694 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I didn't pay enough attention to the "which is a function" part :P < 1325549763 66185 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like the most elementary CT fact that the morphisms of Set are functions :P < 1325549814 427315 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like the quintessential example of a category. < 1325549845 565704 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :your mom is the quintessential example of a category. < 1325549871 918271 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :although one does need to spend a while afterward pointing out that there are categories in which morphisms have nothing to do with functions. < 1325549882 713728 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i miss fax :( < 1325549887 268909 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1325549901 137402 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just temporarily forgot that all relations are not functions and saw the "subset of A x B" and thought relations... < 1325549909 288674 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah there are no relations that are functions :P < 1325549928 899257 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...that's not what I meant by that statement < 1325549936 945314 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :engree: has anyone seen em around? < 1325549964 331279 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have doubts e would be able to stay undetected < 1325549986 442118 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well the usual route appears to be via #haskell < 1325549986 599383 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what exactly is preventing Set morphisms from being relations? < 1325550013 322321 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: the fact that non-functions are not included in Set morphisms by definition. < 1325550016 646156 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: but we know he quit all forums, at least programming-related, for an extended period of time after the first or second time it happened. < 1325550032 633608 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*eir, sorry < 1325550042 489378 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then can you make a relation set category? < 1325550048 79413 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that's not very interesting. why not just add it to the definition. I was wondering if it would break something. < 1325550050 105316 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I wouldn't be surprised if the two-time "revelation" of eir identity after returning was enough to make that permanent. < 1325550071 549220 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: cpressey did comment on eir blog ages ago; but it's completely dead. < 1325550076 594133 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. < 1325550084 404723 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was in '10. < 1325550084 880694 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: erm as i said Rel is a different category, which also exists < 1325550089 322193 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you using spivak pronouns for ironic purposes. < 1325550098 963415 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: right but that's the category of relations.. < 1325550104 824955 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: No. < 1325550110 19171 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not know which pronouns fax prefers. < 1325550112 29063 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: also for not being bloody sure what gender e actually _is_ < 1325550125 187070 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or what sense of is to use < 1325550139 272504 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could've sworn fax was male, but that could just be heuristic talking. < 1325550142 956108 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://reddit.com/user/cwcc is still around, but e abandoned that one long before disappearing completely; eir later accounts have been deleted. < 1325550163 974773 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I believe e identified as male while using the name fax. < 1325550176 202600 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also not very reliable if e has changed the preferred set of pronouns. < 1325550180 150642 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: or well... is Set the "category of functions" then? You seem to be saying that Rel is the alternative category for a category on sets with relations as morphisms. < 1325550191 520288 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something. < 1325550194 56073 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh my god, cwcc posted in /r/vortexmath < 1325550196 836410 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1325550200 719654 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: < 1325550201 36730 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: you simply let the objects be sets and the morphisms be (A,B,M) where M is a subset of A x B. (again A and B are just included to ensure they're well-defined source and target) < 1325550207 281946 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Once I found a computer program try to guess your gender if you answer a lot of questions. However, after answering all of the question the certainty was still zero so it couldn't guess. < 1325550215 448707 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ah okay, so yes. < 1325550239 373660 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: but yeah, I somewhat doubt we'll see em around any time soon: at least not recognisably. < 1325550240 997396 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: well Set has an important special standing in the theory. < 1325550243 107223 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Rel is kind of misleading as I would expect the objects to be relations or something. < 1325550262 122259 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: so there are properties of Set that would break if it were suddenly Rel. < 1325550265 54710 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: but I still hope we do. < 1325550286 745357 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :engree: /r/.....vortexmath.............. < 1325550300 964891 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i < 1325550302 86897 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how < 1325550313 105042 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: It's TEDx-approved, man. < 1325550337 785665 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shall slightly reduce ambiguity in the room by simply stating the common Internet heuristic of "forall x. male(x)" applies to pikhq in both gender identity and chromosome set. :P < 1325550341 289159 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :VortexSpace.org College of Vortex Mathematics < 1325550346 578535 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: presumably. the yoneda lemma is one important theorem that comes to mind (and which i don't remember exactly.) < 1325550361 460297 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yo neda < 1325550363 876519 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lemma < 1325550365 343321 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1325550376 496789 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yo nedalemma < 1325550380 604858 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Yoneda remma < 1325550382 69231 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Chromosomes aren't necessarily an indicator of biological sex, though. < 1325550397 806873 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: (But nothing is, since it's in large part a cultural concept rather than one that has a precise biological definition...) < 1325550411 47058 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :engree: Bah. My biological sex is also male. There. Happy? < 1325550428 198219 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(no, of course not, nothing makes you happy. :P) < 1325550435 485070 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am an endless pool of sadness. < 1325550446 445416 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yoneda lemma in ignorant-american-pronunciation kind of sounds like a really slurred way of "yo, need a lemma?" < 1325550458 68970 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :+saying < 1325550461 443320 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not just pool of sadness. Also unobtainable desires. < 1325550501 979078 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Very true. < 1325550561 619408 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ah but have you actually _done_ a cromosome test? >:) < 1325550570 451751 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*+h < 1325550574 20175 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: No, actually. < 1325550584 760161 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I can only infer that with high probability. < 1325550603 72235 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :how unscientific. < 1325550617 801699 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not on par with the rigour of #esoteric < 1325550621 878999 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :shameful, really. < 1325550637 895392 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example, i have verified scientifically that i am a bacterium. < 1325550638 56583 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION smokes his pipe and sits in his esoteric armchair. < 1325550654 827919 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Science also only infers things with (unreasonably) high probability. :) < 1325550663 422164 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, either that, or the test tube was contaminated, but how likely is _that_ < 1325550733 884242 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think defenestrate is one of my favorite words. < 1325550772 731597 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because a) it sounds good b) it has at least three possible meanings c) one of which is a verb meaning "to remove Windows from a computer" < 1325550782 203201 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :which < 1325550786 244200 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :along with the other two meanings < 1325550800 681927 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes the word even more awesome than simply the sum of its possible meanings. < 1325550806 430531 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like a PRODUCT of its meanings. < 1325550899 793709 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what do you want from a next generation log formatting system. gimme your best < 1325550930 691800 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or perhaps the product of the ^^^3 of its possible meanings. :P < 1325551063 7873 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :engree: every output format you could possibly think of including various serialization formats, typesetting systems, markup languages, word processor formats, pdf. it should also have a special tagged format which it can use to generate output formats < 1325551081 670782 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so for example you could make an output of only a subset of tags (for IRC this would be things like privmsg, join, part, etc) < 1325551092 584619 :lahwran!lahwran@unaffiliated/lahwran PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone here use xchat? < 1325551096 470238 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also a utility to convert raw text to the tagged format via regex filters. < 1325551115 33936 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could just use AWK to do some of these things isn't it? < 1325551154 241584 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :engree: total information recall, line wrapping and free money. < 1325551155 409171 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably, but not as easily I would think. < 1325551181 863463 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also wild sex parties. < 1325551255 835677 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :engree: oh, and maybe it should understand the color codes. < 1325551261 682014 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :colour codes, check < 1325551270 45524 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :engree: the house format could also contain a header specifying default formatting options when none are provided for the output formatter. < 1325551280 740518 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :engree: no this should be general to any kind of log, not just IRC. < 1325551285 780996 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I would like to build in auto-linking functionality; how would you suggest I do this? I was thinking of not formatting links specially at all until you mouse over them, to avoid annoying highlights of non-links < 1325551292 522484 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :since URLs are rather easy to spot visually in the first place :P < 1325551309 578420 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: i will take your requests into... consideration < 1325551310 568656 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lahwran: I do. < 1325551334 167902 :lahwran!lahwran@unaffiliated/lahwran PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you have nick coloring on? < 1325551339 389234 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it's annoying :) < 1325551371 824816 :lahwran!lahwran@unaffiliated/lahwran PRIVMSG #esoteric :well then what I was going to say is irrelevant < 1325551380 725302 :lahwran!lahwran@unaffiliated/lahwran PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you have time-sorted tabcomplete on? < 1325551390 323667 :lahwran!lahwran@unaffiliated/lahwran PRIVMSG #esoteric :(was it you I mentioned it to the other day?) < 1325551431 220366 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :engree: strangely I don't believe you. < 1325551490 862840 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least TeX, XML, HTML, and maybe PDF would be good. < 1325551495 617120 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lahwran: Yes, I do, and yes, it was; I've used it forever, I just reinstalled my OS recently. < 1325551510 17250 :lahwran!lahwran@unaffiliated/lahwran PRIVMSG #esoteric :k < 1325551543 389286 :lahwran!lahwran@unaffiliated/lahwran PRIVMSG #esoteric :might as well tell you my random fact about nick coloring anyway - apparently it works by summing the character values in the nick and then modulo-ing them by the count of available colors < 1325551551 822012 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's... < 1325551553 723349 :lahwran!lahwran@unaffiliated/lahwran PRIVMSG #esoteric :not by any real hashing function at all < 1325551557 145764 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the stupidest algorithm i can think of < 1325551571 523983 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess that's why people complain about collisions so much < 1325551579 377978 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but for A TRULY FLEXIBLE LOG FORMATTER you want to have a special format for representing logs that can be easily converted to from raw text, and a simple style specification to allow styling of different tags regardless of output format. < 1325551586 897319 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: THX FOR FEEDBACK < 1325551591 814560 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: We already have a simple raw log format. < 1325551600 449551 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/2012-01-03-raw.txt < 1325551620 674410 :lahwran!lahwran@unaffiliated/lahwran PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it's kinda funny because I've kinda assigned my own mild stereotypes to different nick colors < 1325551625 419838 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would you have SIRCL format? And possibly CSV format? < 1325551634 591103 :lahwran!lahwran@unaffiliated/lahwran PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it turns out, there actually might be some real relationships between them < 1325551646 218702 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :needs JSON and YAML as well. :P < 1325551653 576453 :lahwran!lahwran@unaffiliated/lahwran PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay json/yaml < 1325551685 342544 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh JSON ew YAML < 1325551700 590642 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, yes. And for TeX, you need to have both Plain TeX and LaTeX. But possibly, just have one format which it can read in and then a macro file can format it. I have done things like this; for example, you can make a macro to read a tab separated file, and so on < 1325551713 887843 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Generic data formats are vastly overrated anyway, since all the common ones are not nearly rich enough to describe all data without additional parsing logic that will approach the complexity of just writing your own format. < 1325551751 522324 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I designed SIRCL format for IRC logs probably just use that and then convert into others using AWK or Perl < 1325551769 515960 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1325551819 252391 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :engree: XML comes close I guess. < 1325551845 506039 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: To describing all data? No way. < 1325551899 990916 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well... can it do referential structures? < 1325551919 324262 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if you use, something such as, Haskell Data Notation? < 1325551930 294664 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or does your definition of "all data" include things like an infinite sequence of fibonacci numbers. < 1325551937 648406 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: To be exact, I was not saying you cannot represent data in those formats. < 1325551944 939648 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :engree: of course. < 1325551947 316155 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I said that doing so requirse a separate parsing/serialisation step to fit the restrictions of those formats. < 1325551954 53982 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which approaches the complexity of just writing your own format in the first place. < 1325551955 322139 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*requires < 1325551992 161454 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Haskell data structure notation would not be very good for describing structures with references. < 1325551997 435257 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you < 1325552003 336930 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :included the = operator as well < 1325552009 440224 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :which isn't unreasonable < 1325552022 914009 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You just need let...in to describe sharing. < 1325552096 31210 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.cs.vu.nl/~x/ this guy has the coolest name < 1325552096 507800 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ever < 1325552097 205090 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :one issue with such a format is that it isn't quite as convenient as JSON for many languages. < 1325552106 137991 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :similar problems to what XML has I guess. < 1325552119 646596 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :with JSON you can basically just convert it directly to some native data structure. < 1325552129 518515 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in any language. < 1325552150 769093 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell's tagged unions and such are not quite so convenient in.. say.. Perl. < 1325552199 241075 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :JSON's unstructured soup isn't convenient in... say... Haskell. < 1325552216 834494 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least a stupidifying step is more palatable than an enrichening one. < 1325552411 853824 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps < 1325552439 494562 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say handling JSON data and handling a Haskell-like format would be equally difficult in Haskell. < 1325552453 494844 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is to say not difficult at all. < 1325552461 153290 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t reads < 1325552462 104985 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Read a) => String -> [(a, String)] < 1325552462 897061 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1325552480 138879 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can make up some format and parse it using Parsec, it works well < 1325552483 226863 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yes I forgot about Read, but then you need the type information as well. < 1325552519 867389 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Yes... you need to know the structure of some data to consume it. < 1325552531 86223 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION would not use this proposed Haskell format anyway. < 1325552543 440898 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :engree: at compile time, to read it like that. yes. < 1325552552 958026 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Instead of bothering with the actual universe, let us create our own imaginary universe in which there are only three classes of animals: birds, cats, and dogs." < 1325552618 409598 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well Haskell's data structures are basically just tagged unions and structs... < 1325552625 59080 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's two kinds of animals. < 1325552750 648829 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure the types make a huge difference at compile-time, but unless you want to have existing type libraries for every kind of data you read, you're probably going to want the data type information to be stored in the format itself and interpreted at runtime. < 1325552764 968664 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means that you basically just have tagged unions, structs, and let bindings. < 1325552797 24172 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(with syntax sugar for strings and lists, and integer and character primitives) < 1325553562 178327 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325553602 985047 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :has this channel really only existed since november 06? < 1325553733 678629 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1325553736 492353 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :late 2002 < 1325553756 738101 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :freenode's systems get replaced more often than this channel stops existing :) < 1325554022 665583 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you have suggestion to have substitute player for Dungeons & Dragons game in case some of the players are not available? < 1325554051 684871 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: DMPC is ever a classic. < 1325554065 80948 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: He said he doesn't want to do that? < 1325554113 843932 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. Figure out a way to write certain players out of the story, for sure... < 1325554124 440208 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes; of course I thought of that already. < 1325554153 593476 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A few options from there: deal with missing members, find people to come in and play a game or two (and roll new characters), have some of your players play multiple characters... < 1325554173 176696 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am one of the players < 1325554179 390066 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The last option may be sanity-straining, of course. < 1325554191 658725 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And there is one other player only, who is unavailable < 1325554196 82882 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was, nevertheless, talking in a more general sense. :) < 1325554201 93243 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1325554226 38390 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are only two players, only two player characters. < 1325554266 824891 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :solo d&d? < 1325554301 613267 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :engree: The DM said he doesn't like that; I did suggest that, as well as having the DM have their own player character too, and this stuff. < 1325554326 738377 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a bit surprised at having so few PCs. < 1325554335 989133 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "standard" D&D party is, like, 4... < 1325554365 472627 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I've not really heard of fewer people in a party. < 1325554367 129771 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know; but we play the game strangely < 1325554388 870892 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are varying number of NPCs in the party sometimes < 1325554402 1453 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only way you could play the game genuinely strangely is to play it by a strict reading of the rules. :P < 1325554412 214353 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are other strange things about the party too; read the recording file for information! < 1325554436 637854 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :view-source:http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/dnd/recording/level20.tex < 1325554566 479763 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Currently we have two human NPCs which are navy marines < 1325554620 309718 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Will you have ideas about it by reading this? < 1325554629 817070 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps; lemme take a look. < 1325554685 235427 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, what macro set are you using to generate that? Something you wrote yourself? < 1325554707 824311 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it is a macro set I wrote myself: view-source:http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/dnd/recording/dungeonsrecording.tex < 1325554721 839183 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Neat. < 1325554896 894998 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, doesn't appear to work with pdftex. < 1325554907 557040 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Works just fine with tex, though. < 1325555119 671751 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes; just use TeX it is not intended to work with pdfTeX. < 1325555142 535050 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I don't care whether or not it will work with pdfTeX < 1325555170 938383 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also don't know why, but it doesn't matter < 1325555250 798047 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect pdfTeX has a few macros in place beyond what TeX offers that collide. < 1325555261 98866 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly. < 1325555327 843047 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note this document uses a command to request input from the terminal; I don't know if pdfTeX has problems with that somehow < 1325555364 640502 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The \askprintinglevel asks you how much you want to be printed, 1 is the shortest printout and 6 is the longest printout. < 1325555386 791575 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*That* much worked just fine. < 1325555438 250413 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it doesn't matter; you can still get DVI output, and if you want PDF you can use an external program to convert DVI to PDF. < 1325555476 527826 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION nods < 1325555518 726020 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you ever play D&D 3.5 edition, you can use this same macro file if you want to record them in the computer. < 1325555602 860833 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :During the game, we have never actually decided the actual number of Also's sausages even though we should have done; so I just made up some numbers < 1325556296 85150 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are either of these two files good to you? < 1325556490 560219 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite impressed with the macros. < 1325557368 544681 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1325557584 297501 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :q < 1325557602 81779 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-19-212.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think an AI could be made to play D&D, though it'd likely end up a mix of blind stat crunching and often inhoherent text generation. < 1325557657 491302 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Proof: the set of video games with D&D as their game rules. < 1325557660 391637 :derdon!~derdon@p5DE8BC89.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1325557662 452204 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1325557708 848153 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-19-212.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well those have computer controlled monsters/NPCs, that's not really the same as AI pseudo-players. < 1325557732 844552 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :They still aren't perfectly D&D regardless of their rules < 1325557747 922054 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: They're reasonable approximations, IME. < 1325557773 346449 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only major divergence is the switch from rounds to real-time action. < 1325557790 986375 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-19-212.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A D&D video game would be a neat use of the AI director from Left4Dead. < 1325557836 685928 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-19-212.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though all it knows how to do is swarm you with zombies. < 1325557853 872965 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, they are entirely different than a proper role playing game. The closest computer games to a proper role playing game would be a text adventure game, although even that is not close. < 1325557989 935660 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was discussing the mechanical aspects alone, of course. < 1325558003 233965 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The play experience is certainly *dramatically* different. < 1325558012 859037 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What you want for that is not AI players but an AI DM. :P < 1325558081 972176 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mechanical aspects can be made very close but even then, with the various possible exceptions, although you could still make a card game or computer game out of them without the exceptions, it might still make a workable game. < 1325558229 436816 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell Vorpal https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBd9c1gAqWs < 1325558229 753439 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1325558824 695796 :Jafet!~Jafet@149.171.48.81 JOIN :#esoteric < 1325558830 358498 :Jafet!~Jafet@149.171.48.81 QUIT :Changing host < 1325558830 514126 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1325559240 94967 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: pro cloak < 1325559297 291515 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use a pro client < 1325559650 838744 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: you can identify with server passwords on freenode :P < 1325559663 38805 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : : < 1325559667 444120 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh without the <>s < 1325559857 154344 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :My pro client takes care of that flawlessly < 1325559992 560845 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1325560443 31808 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: < 1325560444 481162 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Jafet (~Jafet@149.171.48.81) has joined #esoteric < 1325560444 637619 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Jafet has quit (Changing host) < 1325560444 637812 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Jafet (~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet) has joined #esoteric < 1325560452 558696 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: For sufficiently wrong definitions of flawlessly < 1325560498 472733 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm some spambot changed the front page of the wiki probably < 1325560530 609972 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Frooxius: reverted < 1325560539 281922 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1325560589 34038 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh thanks too, I was poking for a link about how to write a page and look at some existing ones < 1325560760 552762 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1325560777 981070 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't worry about adding anything too rough formatting-wise, it'll get cleaned up in a day or two < 1325560814 47730 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :engree: The last minor release of this client left parted usernames in the user list < 1325560846 899207 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: Why the fuck are you using Pidgin < 1325560847 891158 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, I'm making a page about my language(s) < 1325560889 690752 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do you seem upset that I use it? < 1325560933 684651 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: No, just amazed < 1325560942 271203 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know a single person who can stand Pidgin's IRC support :P < 1325561056 864797 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't care enough to change it < 1325561256 81358 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now they have The Mod Archive - Lite. < 1325561670 213210 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just sanity checking: given a value in m^2 and a conversion factor in USD/m, there is no way to get a meaningful value in USD, right? < 1325561754 356607 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it okay if I copy things I wrote about the language from my webpage or do I have to rephrase it? Do I have to put some "public domain" disclaimer on my webpage if I'm going to just copy it? < 1325561775 488928 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Frooxius: Just be aware that the version on the wiki is public domain. < 1325561793 69852 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I don't mind that < 1325561800 274087 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you're good. < 1325561827 298447 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(source: I read the copyright section of the USC a few years back.) < 1325561853 143657 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that public domain doesn't apply to the language itself? As in, the documentation on my site, binaries, sources and such (besides examples that I post on the wiki)? < 1325561863 249069 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It only applies to the text on the wiki. < 1325561876 214720 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh cool :3 thanks < 1325561896 667542 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :We genuinely don't care about the license on anything else, except to note that it's *courteous* to place your code under a FOSS license of some sort. < 1325561942 833708 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :The examples of the language you mean? < 1325561949 592957 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325561952 483147 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I mean your implementation. < 1325561965 911908 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's placed on the wiki must be public domain (as a matter of policy). < 1325562016 53077 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh... Hmm, I never really thought about licenses. I haven't released the sourcecode yet, only Windows and Linux binaries, though I'll put the code there later too < 1325562137 546327 :DCliche!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1325562355 860348 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, FWIW, the FOSS license being courteous thing is not specific to #esoteric, that's a community norm pretty much everywhere outside of corporations. < 1325562416 395641 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, and windows users :P < 1325562435 76069 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :engree: Saying "community" automatically excludes them. :P < 1325562454 949548 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, I'm a Windows user x3 < 1325562464 96334 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use Linux too though. < 1325562501 315634 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh boy, now you're all going to hate me *hides under a rock* < 1325562525 604131 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Pity" is the correct term. < 1325562535 582160 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows users. I've heard of those! < 1325562546 711822 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I read about them in a book. < 1325562547 699786 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION peeks from under the rock < 1325562558 66880 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The rock represents capitalism.) < 1325562561 156039 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, we're rare, like a fairy! < 1325562589 844424 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pfff, money. < 1325562622 135837 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer my schemes for economic distribution to be more handwavey! < 1325562632 505844 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(no, fiat money is not handwavey enough!) < 1325562639 470622 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :But but but I thought about you and I made Linux binaries as well! *puppy eyes* < 1325562682 23878 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, you made (presumably) x86 glibc on Linux binaries. < 1325562701 388278 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nuuuu < 1325562710 496689 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :it uses standard C++ < 1325562717 728366 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you said "binaries" < 1325562725 761497 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have an architecture-independent libc-independent linux binary i'll eat my hat :P < 1325562726 394428 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this isn't me being all GNU/X/Gnome/Linux-y, just being pedantic about specifying the ABI) < 1325562746 380135 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1325562757 370321 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well the standard C++ code can be compiled into whatever you want x3 < 1325562762 267745 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If we had it. < 1325562764 393061 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which we don't. < 1325562766 775159 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thus the problem. < 1325562766 931554 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even a donut. That you can eat instead of a hat. < 1325562785 754391 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :You will have it :3 < 1325562801 218663 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: he did say he was releasing the sources < 1325562808 207733 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :After I figure out these licenses though x3 < 1325562834 846773 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is basically why I haven't released it yet, I was sort of avoiding it < 1325562880 228805 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :BSD or GPL (there's more choices, but why consider others? The BSD-alikes are effectively identical, the GPL-alikes have significant disadvantages from being nowhere near as popular as GPL) < 1325562932 57277 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess he GPL one, though are there more versions? Also, do I have to put it in all source code files? < 1325562944 554606 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :BSD is probably a better choice (<-- NOT BIASED) < 1325562951 557956 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You just have to put it in a file you include with the sources. < 1325562961 673364 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Usually it's called LICENSE (although COPYING is the standard name for the GPL). < 1325562985 145601 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Pfft, real programmers tri-license their code Mozilla Public License/Artistic License 1.0/CC by-sa-nc < 1325562986 885599 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh cool, I was afraid I have to put this GPL comment blob of text I see in some sources *giggles* < 1325562987 41888 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, BSD is perhaps the simplest, and certainly with the best understood consequences. < 1325562988 827739 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :-nd < 1325563005 593044 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make it in public domain if you don't care about licenses. < 1325563009 598134 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Frooxius: The GPL comment blob is nothing but a courtesy, and one that few people *care* about. < 1325563023 277370 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: In many jurisdictions that's impossible. < 1325563032 197644 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Assuming public domain is valid in your country and the countries of those who wish to use your software... < 1325563033 346504 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that is why you have WTFPL < 1325563052 188200 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's ambiguous in the US, but only slightly. < 1325563074 296990 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, thanks, I'll look into it, don't worry, I don't intend to have it closed source, I like the idea if someone actually might be interested into doing something with it x3 < 1325563075 247833 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's either really public domain or licensed under terms precisely identical to what you can do with it under the public domain, near as I can tell) < 1325563100 892562 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq has yet to contradict my SUPERB licensing advice which nobody should follow. < 1325563116 277987 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :engree: Jesus that is the worst combination of licenses doable. < 1325563123 816319 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, CC by-sa-nc? The *fuck*? < 1325563128 298542 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: -nd < 1325563137 726911 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's technically just CC by-nc-nd, though, no sa :P < 1325563164 293942 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That only makes it worse. < 1325563188 331802 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I forget, is normal multi-licensing union or intersection? < 1325563189 129235 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I often use GPL or public domain. But use BSD if you prefer < 1325563190 593256 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm tired. < 1325563216 222998 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I used Qt for the GUI though < 1325563222 315486 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Well, this is none of those; this is under the xor of all those licenses. A term applies iff only a single license in the set has it. < 1325563245 939850 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Frooxius: Qt is LGPL these days, so you're fine licensing your program with anything < 1325563269 296352 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh that's cool then :3 < 1325563274 935250 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could just license your program also under LGPL like Qt is, then, if you want < 1325563279 803107 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION would suggest http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIT_License#License_terms if you don't really care, for what it's worth; it's the simplest of the BSD-derivatives and widely used. < 1325563291 866146 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can use MIT license too, yes that work also < 1325563294 481315 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though GUI isn't really necessary, the emulation core works by itself < 1325563309 104843 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's nicer than BSD3 because it doesn't have a bulleted list. :p < 1325563315 638872 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :engree: Normally it's select a set, actually. < 1325563317 582223 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, hmm, that list is actually numbered. < 1325563317 738258 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in, it doesn't depend on the Qt libraries at all < 1325563328 317943 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yeah, well, xor licensing is the new thing. < 1325563330 413419 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have to comply with at least one license in its entirety, which license that is is up to you. < 1325563348 468417 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Frooxius: If you want, you could either move the GUI into a separate source file, or allow someone else to make those changes if someone else want to do so < 1325563382 544256 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is separate, I just #include it in the Qt project < 1325563398 195352 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the headers and the static library < 1325563421 237983 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, the GUI is basically a seperate program. < 1325563429 324085 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1325563436 107120 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still you're fine licensing your program with anything. < 1325563447 35958 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should give the GUI away for free and sell the emulation core for $5,000/seat. < 1325563453 807974 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1325563456 224563 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's only logical < 1325563458 203431 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :|3 < 1325563496 271753 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you should make the emulation core open sourced and the Linux GUI also open sourced, but sell the Windows GUI for $100 each < 1325563508 530570 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You would. :P < 1325563536 9275 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :And sell the roasted assembler-cores $500/bucket :D < 1325563599 512837 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :*crunch crunch crunch* mmmmm... tasty *crunOUCH* A syntax error! < 1325563684 508155 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-19-212.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like zlib just because it has a cooler looking name. < 1325563978 342286 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though the GUI code is horrible, because it was my first Qt app x3 And I didn't have enough time to learn it first on examples, so I was learning a lot when working on it. < 1325564362 332228 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or just license it entirely under the LGPL < 1325564368 368695 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't. < 1325564374 563196 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1325564388 173553 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or BSD, MIT, GPL, WTFPL, public domain < 1325564397 754543 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You shouldn't use Creative Commons licenses for software < 1325564419 613958 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why? < 1325565858 896114 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Their FAQ even says the same thing. Also, they are incompatible with software licenses. You should use a proper software license to ensure compatibility. < 1325565881 561101 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Extra resources of software, such as graphics, sounds, and so on, can be licensed using Creative Commons. < 1325565882 826787 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :engree: I knew it was you. < 1325566019 783597 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I generally find it easy to pick up on elliott's various nicks. He's just very identifiable. < 1325566042 635095 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find it easy to simply see "!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott" you can know just from that < 1325566066 356924 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tend not to see that. < 1325566120 835832 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think a most common IRC clients hide that < 1325566136 23806 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mine doesn't hide it, I just don't see him join. < 1325566167 854624 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean that I just came to my IRC client and switched to #esoteric. < 1325566175 961270 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION nods < 1325566241 227632 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mine shows it with every message < 1325566264 577732 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right, yours is a UI for the IRC bytestream. < 1325566273 335740 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1325566281 191913 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And syntax highlighting and a few other things < 1325566513 591141 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is the best way in Haskell to check existence of a file? < 1325566564 693803 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Don't, just try and use it and catch the error. < 1325566580 513484 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(My answer to http://stackoverflow.com/questions/8502201/remove-file-if-it-exists-in-haskell goes into some detail about that and why.) < 1325566754 370409 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I try to implement to find file in search path specified by environment variables. < 1325566760 435185 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is the best way of that? < 1325566792 314890 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Iterate through each path you think it might be in; try and open it for each of them, and catch the exception for it not existing and continue. < 1325566829 190756 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Writing openFileIfItExists :: FilePath -> SomethingMode (I always forget the name) -> IO (Maybe Handle) will get isolate the exception-handling boilerplate. < 1325566919 600932 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should use the <|> for IO and fold using <|> maybe < 1325566983 390791 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least it is one way. < 1325566995 553933 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-19-212.dhcp.embarqhsd.net NICK :MSleep < 1325567030 423555 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: That's probably a bad idea; you only want to catch does-not-exist exceptions, not anything else that might go wrong. < 1325567043 692343 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1325567732 179965 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: SLEEP, GLORIOUS SLEEP < 1325567941 947774 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/user/Iosethos i don't understand........ < 1325567972 168385 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, redditor for six hours. < 1325567983 198333 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that the losethos guy < 1325567991 558994 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think so < 1325567995 576438 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/o0bkh/iama_ratt_tshirt/ < 1325568011 513454 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/RmFpI.jpg <-- one of his submissions, wtf (don't click that) < 1325568029 21584 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I went to the hardware store and asked that it was the “urgent” number. I called her when got by yesterday and today I got home today, I hoped it was a song by Falco is a rare medical condition." < 1325568033 295755 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a song by falco is a rare medical condition < 1325568049 465347 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :holy shit look at the speed he's posting < 1325568068 284709 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean obviously the text is machine-generated < 1325568070 701292 :cswords!~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325568085 534971 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: http://soundcloud.com/footnotegal/sets/the-first-transaction-was/ < 1325568087 434153 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :christ what < 1325568100 920569 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :he submitted this to... /r/mylittlepony... wtf losethos guy, wtf < 1325568160 186174 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i < 1325568162 5697 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/o0bkh/iama_ratt_tshirt/c3de006 oh good someone else recognises him < 1325568182 27555 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/user/losethos < 1325568183 530523 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and he's gone < 1325568187 15046 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like that < 1325568193 837320 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i < 1325568195 565105 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/user/Iosethos with an I < 1325568203 249851 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1325568208 863806 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was thinking that was a bit too perfect < 1325568291 256918 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/o0p7d/to_still_be_soaked_with_detergent/ ah, the halcyon days of youth, when we were soaked with detergent < 1325568340 482492 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... how do I make a thumbnail though? I can't seem to figure it out >.< I tried looking up syntax, but nothing seems to work < 1325568359 905099 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Frooxius: thumbnail for what? < 1325568367 705669 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if an image, http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Images might help < 1325568394 926247 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[blah|thumb|caption]] basically < 1325568398 289928 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can omit the |caption < 1325568407 733393 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and blah is Image:blah < 1325568448 124007 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I was looking at that... oh no wait... that's something a bit different, the one I saw had syntax "thumb=" < 1325568452 874315 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok thanks < 1325568692 386315 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :We need more Deadfish interpreters in esolangs. monqy: You get on that. < 1325568794 478133 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Frooxius: Hey, didn't you say your interpreter was in C++? I can write C++ too: http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Deadfish#C.2B.2B_templates :D < 1325568847 671436 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nuuuuu x3 < 1325568867 685933 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there any decent esolangs left < 1325568870 401508 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :undeadfished < 1325568879 297542 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not interpreter though < 1325568902 842257 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: Underload, although admittedly it lacks input < 1325568906 682509 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :INTERCAL < 1325568927 100883 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, I don't know intercalle < 1325568931 460385 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's an assembler/compiler that makes a machine code for the processor architecture. That can be either fed to the VHDL implementation (not available/finished yet) or ran in the emulator (virtual machine sort of ) < 1325568983 210636 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Frooxius: ah, you program in both C++ and VHDL... which circle of hell did you learn programming in? < 1325569029 434788 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm mostly self educated. I poke around for some books and such and play with it. < 1325569040 139935 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :You mean, that I should rather work with Verilog? x3 < 1325569056 5429 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to the C++ part < 1325569085 611298 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope, they're just two unbearable languages of torture and pain :P < 1325569091 449241 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, VHDL moreso. < 1325569121 128548 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Says the esolang enthusiast? :D < 1325569169 795743 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least we don't claim they're usable :) < 1325569177 815281 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1325569227 236385 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well then... this calls for... HELLO WORLD in attoassembly x3 http://data.solirax.org/attowpu/helloworld.att < 1325569247 261406 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, someone added a language to the list and didn't mess up the alphabetic order. < 1325569252 562405 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :This has to be some kind of record. < 1325569264 214756 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :It wasn't me Oo < 1325569272 918075 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Frooxius: Reminds me of Redcode, though probably not for any decent reason. < 1325569308 307913 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :here's my implementation of Pong in AttoASM :D http://data.solirax.org/attowpu/Pong.att < 1325569332 890132 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it work < 1325569365 759628 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's broken pong < 1325569372 55994 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :It works < 1325569406 21390 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why would I publish something that doesn't work? < 1325569426 450890 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1325569436 158791 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ask the people who publish things that don't work < 1325569454 996843 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ask all of them < 1325569467 743707 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I might need a people-who-publish-things-that-don't-work detector though < 1325569595 95723 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I don't really have nice video of it (you can try it yourself later though), but there's at least something: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=mqTjj_7e51s#t=236s < 1325569612 261118 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: should i do good thing or stupid thing < 1325569617 609020 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's from an high-school expo where I presented it, earli... oh it's 2012... earlier last year < 1325569622 597186 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :a good stupid thing < 1325569636 839448 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Frooxius: looks like pnog to me!! < 1325569638 622108 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pnog. oops < 1325569649 787136 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :That pong is running there in the simulator < 1325570000 272248 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1325570303 860291 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"An affect can effect an effect that affects." < 1325570627 822676 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1325570994 229263 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey pikhq how long can human beings stay awake, what does science say < 1325571022 757428 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :11 days < 1325571035 204464 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least that's the record I think < 1325571064 885284 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok there may be hope for me < 1325571066 942185 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :then < 1325571307 21481 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What you actually *want* is the the time before you start hallucinating, though. < 1325571323 36541 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the hallucinations are fun < 1325571415 796080 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the surreal feeling, involuntary movements < 1325571503 323491 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: what's that then < 1325571524 421077 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC, ~72 hours. < 1325571583 530366 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :engree: actually not that long < 1325571593 283522 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :you hit microsleeps pretty quickly comparatively < 1325571614 360140 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, don't microsleeps start from ~24 hours? < 1325571641 826544 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1325571667 191482 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well not universally i'm sure < 1325571670 214475 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean < 1325571675 457304 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously the point is that you don't notice them < 1325571687 163237 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i've functioned normally and very sharply at 40 hours < 1325571726 966688 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have managed to notice them, but only from noticing "WTF a few seconds slipped". < 1325571752 643873 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :engree: how much drugs? < 1325571782 957700 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't use drugs; usually I max out around 30 hours < 1325571787 152333 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: every drug, man. (no drugs) < 1325571788 734521 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's on a good day < 1325571790 789701 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the 40 hour thing was just once < 1325571793 248973 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :engree: I include caffeine < 1325571803 896912 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well ok i drink soda < 1325571810 465663 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1325571816 670432 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i'm pretty sure the effects are negligble on me nowadays < 1325571821 500220 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i don't drink any more when sleep-deprived < 1325571838 858420 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: consider that a common schedule for me is sleeping approx. every 26-30 hours < 1325571844 404663 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so uh < 1325571851 887846 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess i'm just lucky! < 1325571865 333314 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm not < 1325571867 927979 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :every 30 hours but like < 1325571871 206878 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :after 26-30 hours of wakeness < 1325571947 917313 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :engree: are you peter barfuss? < 1325571966 927365 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure; probably not < 1325571970 498711 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, ok < 1325571978 911470 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it depends on who peter barfuss is < 1325571980 96327 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is he me? < 1325572015 87576 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :peter barfuss is an undergrad at my school known for, among other things, massive sleep deprivation. At his worst, I believe he had a week where you could count the number of hours of sleep on one hand < 1325572044 602459 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice, but i don't do the napping thing, with me sleep deprivation is followed by sleeping 14 hours+ < 1325572047 234646 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :usually 16 hours < 1325572069 578985 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm pretty sure my natural melatonin levels are abnormally low for some reason < 1325572093 96076 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've hit 18 hours of sleep after massive deprivation < 1325572130 11502 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, i've done 20 < 1325572132 228200 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure holy fuck I feel bad < 1325572135 674145 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :7:30 and still pitch black outside < 1325572135 674353 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. < 1325572138 547269 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: wat < 1325572143 434883 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages < 1325572143 590765 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :engree said 3h 51m 53s ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBd9c1gAqWs < 1325572147 537027 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate Swedish winters < 1325572148 686933 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :engree: I'm sick and complaining about it. < 1325572158 509782 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Dude... that can happen in the UK too :P < 1325572166 988485 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially as I'm already sleep-deprived and now can't sleep well < 1325572182 326728 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Me too! Well, the sleep-deprived part. But it's only 6:30, so there's a chance I'll hop to bed. < 1325572185 102482 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :engree, well sure, but it will be the same 10:00 too < 1325572205 652582 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sleeping would be an excellent opportunity to realign both my sleep schedule and my dwindling Stack Overflow reputation spree, though! < 1325572235 540150 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: bonus fun sleep fact: the only way i can rebound into a decent schedule is by waking up at inconvenient times twice in a row < 1325572243 468483 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell elliott Impressive. But a pretty basic scene. I wonder if it would make use of SSE and so on to speed up computations. I saw a ray tracer in C written to use SSE to compute multiple line intersections at once < 1325572243 626331 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1325572267 947787 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: engree == elliott < 1325572271 367670 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1325572276 682501 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's funny because < 1325572279 586225 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :engree actually sent that message < 1325572283 227762 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1325572284 654024 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I read it as elliott somehow < 1325572285 604016 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1325572301 227176 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it is because I know we talked about the topic before < 1325572320 717608 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: wake up at 16:00 -> sleep at next 16:00 -> wake up at midnight -> sleep at 18:00-20:00 -> wake up at 04:00 -> sleep at midnight -> wake up at reasonable hour < 1325572325 379643 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :patented(tm) < 1325572332 516022 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well, repa does automatic parallelisation < 1325572338 494798 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :engree, that one never worked for me < 1325572340 603415 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think GHC does SSE though < 1325572345 623645 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm in the wakeup at midnight phase now < 1325572350 412343 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm stuck there < 1325572371 367678 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: the code is actually really readable: http://code.ouroborus.net/gloss/gloss-head/gloss-examples/Ray/ < 1325572380 549770 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Better than the wakeup at noon phase, I guess? < 1325572385 492727 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :engree, more readable than C with SSE? Of course < 1325572394 5047 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, that is standard. < 1325572396 770779 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yeah, but it's even pretty idiomatic < 1325572400 946366 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I usually wake up after noon :P < 1325572403 902884 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: god no waking up at noon is amazingly perfect < 1325572408 773501 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i could wake up at noon every day i'd be so happy < 1325572413 393362 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :engree: Yes, *I* think so. < 1325572424 219713 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately a few billion people seem to disagree. < 1325572436 730155 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :engree, adding SSE gives you an edge. I saw basically that + some CSG + antialias in real time being done < 1325572445 418916 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure the haskell code could scale up to that < 1325572458 901042 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Being editable by a non-madman counts for more. < 1325572459 851958 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, there's no real obstacle to GHC donig SSE. < 1325572461 198227 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*doing < 1325572464 584572 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just hasn't been implemented yet. < 1325572476 518552 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, certainly. But I always had a soft spot for the crazy demoscene :P < 1325572481 224200 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1325572502 929039 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: And the code could possibly benefit from it without being changed. It doesn't contain a single mention of parallelism, after all, and it still scales to the quad-core machine it was run on. < 1325572512 541989 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1325572523 851131 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :engree, I believe the code I was referring to used OpenMP + SSE < 1325572554 329098 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :engree, openmp is actually quite easy to use. Still it does mention parallelism indeed. < 1325572687 265192 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought I saw someone working on getting the automatic vectorisation to work with OpenMP... < 1325572694 185128 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Might just be misremembering, though. < 1325572719 305430 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe, I don't think it was used in the code in question though < 1325572728 909861 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope. < 1325572734 75658 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though in principle it could be. < 1325572744 20070 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1325572750 720105 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Much like in principle you could execute a C program on the Deathstation 9000. < 1325572756 178827 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1325572767 885152 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, actually the program in question was portable between gcc and msvc < 1325572775 155819 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is pretty impressive if you use intrinsics < 1325572830 101244 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION decides to try out the current technic pack for minecraft < 1325572838 734786 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :amazing mod pack back during 1.7.3 at least < 1325572844 753753 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :haven't really used it since then < 1325573241 960911 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :6:47 :( < 1325573605 47692 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1325573812 217654 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: hi, should i sleep, < 1325573818 235363 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : a < 1325573857 235326 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a < 1325573921 228623 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: what does, a mean, < 1325573926 991205 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : a < 1325574008 613583 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: help < 1325574012 974273 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :D:L < 1325574026 95240 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you, < 1325574027 666131 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tired < 1325574042 877882 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1325574052 168851 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :consider sleep < 1325574074 43805 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1325574089 168364 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait until the tired becomes painful < 1325574100 782434 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or until you run out of things to do that are not sleep < 1325574115 169275 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or until you slip unconscious < 1325574277 27025 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy < 1325574285 951217 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :engrey < 1325574287 605029 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like the cut of your jib, let me give you an offer u cant refuse (i will kill you if you refuse) < 1325574292 559325 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ill go to bed < 1325574293 375774 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no,, < 1325574301 172716 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you make sure i get the SO rep I need by the time i wake up < 1325574308 740749 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :h < 1325574309 122158 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how < 1325574311 75842 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hhhhow < 1325574313 611981 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats for me to know < 1325574314 879775 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you to find out < 1325574322 874300 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :D: < 1325574598 169133 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: have you found out yet < 1325574612 1756 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1325574744 503454 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: hury, up? < 1325574751 624656 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i < 1325574752 135202 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :cant < 1325574752 725732 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :;_; < 1325574840 390491 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok gon1dight < 1325574841 776697 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :gondight < 1325574844 708048 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :gondight monquay < 1325574846 952179 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1325574851 190839 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :gondighte < 1325574859 845509 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye -engrey < 1325574867 210724 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :- mqony < 1325574889 259714 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Monad.Trans.Error defines MonadPlus IO but not Alternative IO and anyways their instance is wrong < 1325574912 45008 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they should allow override instances! < 1325574930 824530 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote some ideas in my user space in Haskell Wiki < 1325575060 614257 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :engree < 1325575096 486295 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ; < 1325575101 602461 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What the Haskell wiki needs is more notation. < 1325575146 340408 :engree!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1325575167 26425 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/User:Zzo38/Proposal_for_instance_disambiguation < 1325575192 14209 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Yes that one is the one I meant < 1325575645 559812 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh the key mapping in minecraft gets annoying when you have tens of mods < 1325575661 469039 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there is of course not a single interface to configure them all < 1325575680 222093 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe when they finally add that modding API... < 1325575690 431171 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, doubt that will ever happen < 1325575713 818641 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, besides there are key bindings in the settings menu I can't access because they go under the "done" button < 1325575722 761028 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :zombe do it by config file < 1325575740 337346 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :rei's minimap does it using it's own config dialogue < 1325575741 868024 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so on < 1325575808 447456 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, currently I'm trying to get technic pack + several freestanding mods to play nicely < 1325575815 654765 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it works apart from conflicting keys atm < 1325575853 318168 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ./testlm-disk.pl ../twungot/tokens.bin.irc ../twungot/model.bin.irc 3 programmers do it with < 1325575853 474528 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :programmers do it with objects. is that a cartesian product function that i want to < 1325575853 630926 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :programmers do it with lookahead and the whitespace cset. but please, be patient: i have some < 1325575853 631132 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :programmers do it with exceptions as a control and assume that the answer to your question is "is it because you think you _need_ unwind-protect?" < 1325575866 537804 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :cset? < 1325575901 320788 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, also I found a better version of TMI, called NMI < 1325575903 782041 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps short for "set of characters". < 1325575907 536890 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you ever used TMI < 1325575922 75172 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Non-maskable interrupts are a better version of too much information? < 1325575923 84777 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suggest switching to NMI, especially if you have lots of mods < 1325575949 443278 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, too many items also typoed NEI as NMI < 1325575955 26922 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that is not enough items < 1325575960 474525 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, the in game inventory editor < 1325575964 156595 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :useful when testing things < 1325575985 861819 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :NEI supports searching rather than having like 40 pages due to mods < 1325575990 87362 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so on < 1325576005 500638 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The MonadPlus IO in Control.Monad.Trans.Error is the wrong one!!!!!!! < 1325576005 817937 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can use it to look up recipes as well < 1325576024 571946 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, by turning off cheating mode < 1325576109 984145 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, not sure if you play with many mods though, apart from optifine I presume < 1325576164 661415 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really. I tried out a few bits from that zombe thing. < 1325576171 584294 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1325576210 989723 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't really done any Minecrafting since about September, anyway. < 1325576254 417194 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it happens quite frequently that I'll go to bed after staying up all night < 1325576258 141141 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then... wake up 4 hours later. < 1325576258 934596 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I use techic pack (IC², Buildcraft, Redpower + a lot more smaller mods), NEI, zombe's flying and sun control, worldedit CUI, single player commands (for worldedit support in single player) and of course optifine < 1325576267 295732 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually looks like optifine is part of technic nowdays < 1325576301 162768 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :redpower especially adds a /lot/ of blocks < 1325576307 933547 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to combinatorial explosion < 1325576359 447237 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :like you can make panels, halfblocks and what not out of most vanilla blocks < 1325576529 875991 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, there may have been an update I forgot to notify you about < 1325576763 46306 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1325576891 642877 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch ouch ouch, minecraft coloured lights are done using multitexturing. This is so wrong. < 1325576904 90299 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1325576908 956601 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in torchlight vs. sunlight < 1325577058 676862 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :1.8 changelog: + Rewrote the light rendering to use multitexturing instead of direct colors < 1325577103 571844 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1325577113 419438 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a nasty way to do it < 1325577127 218397 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it makes it much harder for mod authors to add their own lights of various colours < 1325577192 146883 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not surprising in general, either, since the existing light colour scheme is just "two dimensions, skylight and blocklight == torch", no matter how it's implemented. < 1325577206 513416 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could easily make all torches green, though. :p < 1325577210 920034 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1325577218 440417 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not add green, red and blue torches < 1325577303 116518 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, why doesn't minecraft just use the phong model for all the available light sources. It could even drop the specular light calculation, which is probably the most expensive part < 1325577305 837133 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :from what I remember < 1325577328 465562 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :since mc has not specular light < 1325577342 284640 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It wouldn't be as "retro". < 1325577373 477190 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :come on, mc dropped retro the day it implemented smooth light < 1325577407 585288 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was someone else's idea, though, and optional in any case. < 1325577420 89322 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that stuff isn't around any more < 1325577449 499886 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't it still toggleable? (I certainly haven't looked.) < 1325577459 61944 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so, can't check atm < 1325577811 380206 :cswords_!~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325577932 22451 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does the current lighting code do shadows for block light sources? For skylight it does, that much I remember. I suppose it does some sort of custom light-spread for blocklight too. < 1325578049 857315 :cswords!~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1325578105 884659 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe somebody here can answer this one < 1325578123 354433 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i took some source which was released under the MIT license and significantly modified it < 1325578138 317647 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf do i do to be all proper about things but still own my modifications? < 1325578740 419887 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not a copyleft license or anything, so as far as I know you're free to distribute your modified version under a license as restrictive as you want, possibly as long as there's a sentence like "includes code from libfoo, which you can get from libfoo.com, licensed under the following terms: [copy of their copyright notice + MIT license statement]." But I'm certainly no lawyer. < 1325578847 527655 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, i don't actually care about the license but i intend to make the source available and I want to "do right" < 1325578855 116 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are lots of these licenses that allow you to take and use and modify the code < 1325578874 502085 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :do i just add a copyright notice? how do i specify that "my changes are everywhere" lol < 1325579228 712549 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1325579877 292783 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you're going to MIT-license the result, I would think you can just put in "Copyright Myself" + MIT license "permission is granted + no warranty" statement + based on/derived from the FunkyCode, copyright TheirName. Though I've also seen people just do "Copyright Myname" + "Copyright TheirName" + same license terms. < 1325579915 70390 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that helps :) < 1325579919 192038 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :E.g. RTMPDump-YLE does it like that, http://fador.be/yle/README.rtmpdump-yle + then their COPYING file in the distribution includes the GPL text, plus "json-c has the following license: [json-c's MIT license text]". < 1325579920 302783 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd have thought it would be easier to find an answer for this < 1325579941 424299 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Of course whoever wrote RTMPDump-YLE probably wasn't a lawyer either.) < 1325579946 344465 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, a well-known and "official" kind of answer ;) < 1325579978 7922 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, it's just words in many ways so i suppose i can write whatever i want that doesn't violate the existing license, i just wondered if there was a proper or standard way and couldn't find it < 1325579981 486395 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so now i want to find more :P < 1325580009 856749 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, the author said to me in e-mail "i don't really care, you can do whatever you want" hehe < 1325580071 620786 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Copyright Jafet 2009..2012. I don't have any money to hire a lawyer, so you can use this source code in any way you like and I probably won't ever sue you. No warranties expressed or implied. < 1325580085 124563 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha < 1325580108 389033 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i got a kick out of the WTFPL license < 1325581103 330421 :Slereah_!~butt@ANantes-259-1-167-140.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1325581337 114251 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look, I implemented simple colored snow animation in my language 2DASM for 2DWPU architecture http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnzaXvF7p7o Here's the source: http://data.solirax.org/2dwpu/colorsnow.2da It's WIP though |3 < 1325581513 190495 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1325581548 7842 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I made up a big number, according to these functions of natural numbers, where ^ means exponent and ! means factorial and ; separates the definitions. < 1325581611 938162 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :f(0,0) = 1; f(x,0) = x^f(x-1,k(x,x!)); f(x,y) = x!+k(y^f(x,0),y^f(x,y-1)) < 1325581644 917062 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :k(x,0) = 2^h(x,0); k(x,y) = (x+y)^k((xy)^(xy),y-1) < 1325581674 951797 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :h(0,0) = 1; h(x,0) = p(h(x-1,p(x))); h(x,y) = p(h(x,y-1)) < 1325581682 452680 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :p(x) = x'th prime number; p(0)=1 < 1325581700 461842 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :q(x,0) = f(x,0); q(x,y) = f(q(x,y-1),q(x,y-1)) < 1325581708 178436 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Big number = q(2,q(2,2)) < 1325581747 319463 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION waits for zzo's new exciting result in Ramsey theory. < 1325581755 961512 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :How large is it, what is its one's digit, what is its most significant digit, how does it compare to other big numbers, and etc? < 1325581836 327639 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it larger or smaller than: Skew's number, Moser's number, Graham's number, and XKCD's number? < 1325581859 600927 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or even equal? < 1325581919 730759 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is tempted to put it in Haskell < 1325581964 358579 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I worked it a bit on paper and as far as I know the computer probably won't be able to complete the calculation < 1325582499 264256 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : p(x) = x'th prime number; p(0)=1 <-- I thought 1 was not a prime number? < 1325582522 492265 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :because then there wouldn't be unique factorizations into prime numbers < 1325582545 329912 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know 1 is not a prime number. < 1325582561 978388 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But p(0) has to be defined anyways so that is its definition I put < 1325582575 507371 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1325582595 180097 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : I worked it a bit on paper and as far as I know the computer probably won't be able to complete the calculation <-- depends on how you represent it? < 1325582610 95609 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks like too much work though < 1325582630 298202 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, if you worked on it in a CAS you might be able to find something out < 1325582653 96642 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, I assume it is super-exponential then? < 1325582669 229934 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm there is ! in there, so I'd go with probably < 1325583003 503512 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Already after expanding f(2,0)=2^f(1,4^((4^4+1)^(2^(h((4^4)^(4^4),0)))))) < 1325583050 340575 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Already (4^4)^(4^4) is 256^256 which is more than googol. < 1325583112 726851 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about Googolplex? < 1325583185 393503 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Frooxius, is that 10^(10^100) or? I don't remember < 1325583196 54828 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1325583204 373767 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :10^googol < 1325583234 645243 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :mathematica says that 10^(10^100) > 256^256 is True, but it gives a warning about overflow < 1325583237 740176 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'm not sure < 1325583251 563547 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really know the math around these expansions and such, I guess I'll have to read something more later ^^ < 1325583287 645909 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then that is a fairly small level of expansion of zzo38's function < 1325583329 415904 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :thing that annoys me greatly in windows 7: I can't find a way to open the right click menu for the currently open directory without going up a level above it and right clicking it < 1325583346 844673 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm currently working with shell integrated version control system, so I really really want that feature < 1325583375 431166 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right clicking in the empty space doesn't work? Or did I misunderstand you? < 1325583400 558022 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: 256^256 = (10^log10(256))^256 = 10^(log10(256)*256) ~ 10^616; it's quite clear 10^(10^100) is bigger than that. < 1325583401 192522 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm I tried to right click the icon for the folder in the corner of the window. That worked under xp < 1325583405 563532 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you try right-clicking the icon in the title bar? That works in older versions of Windows. < 1325583426 321467 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, that is the thing that /doesn't/ work any more < 1325583434 129032 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you try using the File menu? < 1325583457 120231 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :In my computer, which is XP, selecting the File menu has one submenu labeled with the name of the current directory. < 1325583470 929936 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah the option for tortoisehg is under there, good < 1325583474 774790 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right under the file menu < 1325583480 203843 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is btw hidden by default < 1325583485 522231 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :until you set a folder option thingy < 1325583499 480100 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pushing alt should make it display the menu even if hidden < 1325583515 630927 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I really prefer linux, windows would be okay with a usable shell, and no powershell is a joke) < 1325583555 670921 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait what, can't hg handle empty directories? Or is it just this shell extension being stupid? < 1325583583 532770 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, Linux is better. But in Windows, the standard command prompt is OK for some things, and so is Windows Explorer; you can get a UNIX command line by using Cygwin. < 1325583598 242458 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :cygwin is kind of broken iirc < 1325583606 120307 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"After it deletes a file, it then deletes any empty directories that were in the deleted file's path. This sounds like a trivial distinction, but it has one minor practical consequence: it is not possible to represent a completely empty directory in Mercurial." < 1325583627 32943 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1325583638 671378 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there is no tortoisebzr, and I'm /not/ using svn < 1325583639 705640 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Git works the same way, unless I misremember. < 1325583641 332411 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(nor git) < 1325583673 476668 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can put a placeholder file in. < 1325583739 674903 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, not really in this case though. Meh < 1325583797 859143 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :also tortoisehg has some problems with tracking the correct state for the icon overlay. More so than tortoisesvn even < 1325583806 721560 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that had some issue with it < 1325583838 527474 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :A dummy .gitignore/.hgignore is something I've seen in "empty"-but-we-want-them-to-exist directories. < 1325583910 63299 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no control over the software that might try to read the directory in question so I'd rather not confuse it, I'll just make sure to add the directory once any files does get added to it < 1325585994 633340 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1325586356 870005 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1325586789 643745 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1325589620 346510 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Regex question, how do I alter this regex: ^(\w++) gets a (.*?)$ so if in the (.*?) part there is the word 'and' it doesn't match < 1325589627 663241 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I figure something to do with lookarounds? but can't figure out what < 1325589652 719480 :nooga!~nooga@c35-253.icpnet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1325589999 205249 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Doesn't match" is often not-so-easy for regexen. I mean, you *can* of course just replace (.*) with ((?:(?!and).)*) and that (seems to) work, but it's anyone's guess how inefficient that is; esp. compared to just matching and then testing whether $2 contains "and". < 1325590157 371155 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl @a = ("foo gets a bar", "foo gets a bar and baz"); for (@a) { print "$_ => "; if (/^(\w+) gets a ((?:(?!and).)*?)$/) { print "match: ($1) ($2)\n"; } else { print "no match\n"; } } < 1325590157 880134 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo gets a bar => match: (foo) (bar) \ foo gets a bar and baz => no match < 1325590199 587712 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, duh, I'm an idiot < 1325590204 423750 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can just test in LUA after the regex matches < 1325590286 873454 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1325590298 178877 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also I doubt whether the ? does nothing; you're already using the possessive ++ "eat and never backtrack", and the match is anchored at the end with $, so I don't see how the (.*) part can do anything else except match all the way to the end, no matter if it's greedy or not. < 1325590303 543859 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/nothing/anything/ < 1325590316 536786 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it probably doesn't do anything, no < 1325590323 52867 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just there because the regex generator put it there for me! < 1325590394 507697 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's interesting seeing what kind of regexes are pathological and what aren't < 1325590481 861030 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :((?!foo).)* sounds like something that at least a commonly stupid regex engine would implement in the rather bad "check for a 'foo' substring at each position" way. < 1325590591 771002 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :would the pearl regex engine implement that in the bad way? < 1325590593 355648 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :*perl < 1325590599 710074 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1325590600 183710 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :b/c that's what mushclient uses < 1325590673 851238 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :From what I've heard, it's not uncommonly smart. < 1325590875 915969 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1325590884 935834 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1325591350 129632 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:01:01: :t reads < 1325591350 323223 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:01:02: forall a. (Read a) => String -> [(a, String)] < 1325591352 602192 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm... < 1325591508 838320 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> runStateT (replicateM 3 $ StateT reads) "1 2 3 4" :: [([Int], String)] < 1325591509 790174 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [([1,2,3]," 4")] < 1325591550 403817 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: http://sprunge.us/fdXW -- well, that doesn't look excessively smart. Though I guess it's possible the debug mode inhibits some optimilizations. < 1325592360 756393 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1325592677 896736 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : pikhq: Well, this is none of those; this is under the xor of all those licenses. A term applies iff only a single license in the set has it. < 1325592690 378959 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not xor, xor means an odd number < 1325592719 659713 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's addition (mod 2), after all < 1325592794 555417 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 JOIN :#esoteric < 1325593760 578435 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : if i could wake up at noon every day i'd be so happy <-- i woke up and noon today *MWAHAHAHA* < 1325593779 306106 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*at < 1325593983 663501 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I, too, woke up at noon. < 1325593989 391861 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`words --english 20 < 1325593994 440985 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknown option: english < 1325594004 678818 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`words --eng-gb 20 < 1325594010 921705 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :lot verted praxinde ttensent diviot volute prote int esse antisscn sgthconstrefe darade reffe runcharmit ielder difper speari sonder cfol good < 1325594011 871917 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no such language. here we all speak rigelian. < 1325594128 629325 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :sonder the darades, we've got a difper following us! < 1325594171 851737 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't believe that volute runcharmit! < 1325594206 228439 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's prote to a lot of no good < 1325594211 587685 :FireFly!firefly@firefly.xen.prgmr.com QUIT :Changing host < 1325594211 743388 :FireFly!firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1325594258 955895 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgth. Constrefe, you're such a diviot! < 1325594285 428040 :derdon!~derdon@p5DE89A12.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325594522 842770 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1325595169 240246 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-114.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1325595180 435052 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-146-128.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325595254 998516 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :So is the weather in Hexham today Scotland? http://i.imgur.com/SWaD6.jpg < 1325595409 903419 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Current temperature at Otaniemi: 3.12 °C" < 1325595464 248909 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, depends on whether everything that hasn't been nailed down has blown away. < 1325595464 565583 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was -5 just two days ago; and yesterday it was snowing reasonably heavily; now I guess it's all going to just melt again. < 1325595593 998416 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Weather for Melbourne, Victoria | Temperature: 73F / 23C < 1325595756 95256 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I believe the weather for Tuesday indicates that there are clouds forming an X shape in the sky, in much the same way as they are reported to have to Óengus II before his battle with the Angles. < 1325596146 348544 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell zzo38 i think your number may be larger than Skewes's number but smaller than Moser's number, as afaict all your functions are still primitive recursive, so cannot get up to the approx. ackermann level. < 1325596146 863515 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1325596491 92698 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, does my computer have any chance of storing Skewes's number? < 1325596545 114984 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :not written out in a common base, no < 1325596621 135137 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :10^10^10^34 has 10^10^34 decimals. even 10^10^34 has 10^34 which is enormous < 1325596992 845228 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:33:54: mathematica says that 10^(10^100) > 256^256 is True, but it gives a warning about overflow < 1325597004 979667 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :256^256 = 2^(8*256), so much smaller < 1325597082 478782 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Estimates of the amount of "data" in the world are around the magnitude of a zettabyte, 10^21 bytes. < 1325597145 60459 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :They newsposts that report these estimates never tell how they're made. < 1325597222 340728 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The absolute quantum-mechanical upper bound for the data storage of the entire Earth is only around 10^75 bits. < 1325597288 395522 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: is that in non-compressed form? :P < 1325597300 421990 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :suppose all the data in the world is compressed ... hahahahha < 1325597324 644075 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like the amount of "data" in the world probably means the amount of ram in the world < 1325597339 397966 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or the size of the world's tape < 1325597342 610756 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly they estimated the Bekenstein bounds of all the computers in the world. < 1325597349 487965 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1325597376 443713 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this topic over my head which means i am learning < 1325597399 353878 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :All they really say is just "content" in the "Internet"; I'm sure it's based on something more detailed, but they never bother including that in the reporting. < 1325597423 258359 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Bekenstein bound of the internet as depicted by The IT Crowd. < 1325597437 519152 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It's zero, because the internet obviously doesn't weigh anything.) < 1325597437 675691 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In 2007, humankind was able to store 2.9 × 10^20 optimally compressed bytes, communicate almost 2 × 10^21 bytes, and carry out 6.4 × 10^18 instructions per second on general-purpose computers", says a 2011 Science article, which presumably has some details too. < 1325597451 628098 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :optimally....... compressed......... < 1325597500 273974 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :science journalism < 1325597510 446493 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: That's shorthand for "best algorithms available in 2007". < 1325597527 825123 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the context of this story, anyway. < 1325597542 944119 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh fair enough then < 1325597633 934998 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :they got an oracle to compress it all down to one bit, but then it went on strike so they couldn't get it uncompressed again < 1325597822 877201 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, but.... that's not really helping either. < 1325597894 200748 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I can store an arbitrary number of 'optimally compressed bytes' if I'm allowed to set the algorithm. < 1325597949 749254 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i threw that comment in there about compression to show that its a kind of subjective argument < 1325597975 671600 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, maybe each electron on earth can be used as a form of atomic ram < 1325597994 295269 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bekensteiiiiiin < 1325598007 245326 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok ok.. to wiki i go < 1325598011 611931 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :watch me .. ho ho ho < 1325598016 62453 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(You'd almost think I knew something about quantum information theory.) < 1325598028 407072 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rest assured i don't < 1325598251 822933 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Look, it's just a normalization thing, for pseudo-meaningfulizing the comparisons between the years they do. One megabyte of disk space used for storing video in 2007 counts as storing 1 MB of "optimally compressed" bytes; but the same one megabyte of video in 2000 counts as storing 0.45 MB of "optimally compressed" bytes, because you could store the same amount of "information" in 0.45 MB in 2007. < 1325598261 154260 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's still pretty handwavy, I'm not denying that. < 1325598302 584294 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That makes more sense. < 1325598342 390852 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no clue where they got all their numbers of how much storage capacity there is in the world, or what it's used for, though. < 1325598557 842437 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the NSA, of course < 1325598678 347664 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :10^21 bytes of youtube videos, facebook photos, B-rate porn, and raw astronomy data < 1325598687 302820 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :We live in a glorious civilization. < 1325598710 608055 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :raw astronomy porn, check < 1325598797 297613 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't google "Young slit experiment" < 1325598807 389400 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :O KAY < 1325599086 339027 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, that was a funny bug. We have this audio file reader which used to take as a parameter whether it's reading a .wav file or a raw data file; then it'd open with libsndfile and read. At some point, someone "improved" it so that it just tries to open it with libsndfile as "unknown format", and if that fails, uses it as a raw data file instead. < 1325599151 433339 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Turns out that for one particular file, after one particular piece of processing, the raw audio file (which it was) happens to contain initial bytes that look enough like some random audio format to confuse libsndfile. < 1325599243 207388 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1325599395 651898 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did, in fact, Google (image search) it, and got http://www.askamathematician.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/ammo.jpg as a result. I... don't know. < 1325599408 505764 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The image is work-safe, in case someone is wondering.) < 1325599424 80848 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Or, well, I don't know. Maybe if your employer hates kittens?) < 1325599437 172666 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Then it might not be.) < 1325599473 745896 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently that's an illustration below where the blog-author calculates the de Broglie wavelength of a kitten. < 1325599521 750126 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also the blog posting is mostly about cat puns. < 1325599535 861784 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"-- a “coherent cat beam” (a “cat-hode ray”, as it were) --" and so on. < 1325599744 728210 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 , Skype: patashu0 . < 1325600459 914815 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, I've still got Taneb on ignore. < 1325600622 562570 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :something fishy here http://www.dagbladet.no/2012/01/02/nyheter/dyrenes_nyheter/innenriks/fiskedod/19632870/ < 1325600718 936138 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The dog is a fish hoarder. < 1325600732 682629 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1325601089 144911 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1325601119 710774 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notes that Mac Lane says "such that the following diagrams commute:" and then has one of the diagrams consist of two objects with a single morphism between them. < 1325601168 98761 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it commute if you can't do any commuting? < 1325601758 953307 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think that the number of different brain states is an absurd thing to worry about :-D < 1325601821 191999 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, for the "absurd thing" and "worry about" and ":-D" < 1325601827 421933 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :im being a bit troll < 1325602183 445006 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :curious questions about quantum states of human brains are.. < 1325602203 873888 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :are some states of human brains more valuable than others < 1325602253 815693 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its all atoms really < 1325602322 64918 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, states, in this case, mean quantum-mechanical states, not anything more abstract. < 1325602332 248546 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :theres no lack of uniformity that i know of between the atoms in the brain and the atoms in the skull apart from the way they are structured into molecules < 1325602352 471936 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most of those states consist of soup. < 1325602391 336137 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is why the Bekenstein bound is not indicative of anything particularly useful, beyond a sardonic upper bound for data storage questions. < 1325602407 940891 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1325602508 56205 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's obviously useful for QM, but not for working out storage capacities. < 1325602586 593306 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't like the idea of viewing my thoughts as quantum states i guess is what i mean < 1325602662 837937 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why? < 1325602717 14022 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its almost like a religion < 1325602944 184845 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a religion where information is god :P < 1325602996 767399 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what sort of information? physical structures < 1325603202 54767 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is not really motivated as an attack on science or on anyone.. just dealing with some stuff :P < 1325603221 291154 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :saying it out loud to you all < 1325603293 169167 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I, um < 1325603298 62447 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This makes little sense. < 1325603331 195891 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok.. well i am hopping afk for some asthma stuff < 1325603412 976451 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok my problem is this :D < 1325603419 565276 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asthma? < 1325603430 271035 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :trying to understand science and liberal arts at the same time < 1325603457 342221 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :most sensible people don't try to collide them < 1325604277 155055 :yorick!~yorick@unaffiliated/yorick QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1325604278 741389 :_Slereah!~butt@ANantes-259-1-217-73.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1325604309 790481 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the asthma is my own fault since i hate using the proper medicine .. nevermind that < 1325604349 250496 :nooga!~nooga@c35-253.icpnet.pl QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1325604458 447506 :yorick!~yorick@unaffiliated/yorick JOIN :#esoteric < 1325604557 461866 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hoover: ok heres one way i can put it.. we humans spend a lot of time caring about other humans < 1325604615 479774 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we store information in our environments < 1325604755 819905 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm whats another way for me to randomly angst against science < 1325604778 936832 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Creationism? < 1325604868 463685 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the geek gradually gets fixed upon a path < 1325604889 329585 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :forging his mind into a weapon of geekdom < 1325604921 322836 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should concede that all people gradually "invest" their life in some direction or other < 1325604943 533948 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i think it is important to realize that such investments are being made.. there is no perfect investment < 1325604950 604343 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its not a game < 1325605603 725678 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry for so morbid < 1325605628 104618 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++. < 1325605628 261569 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :- < 1325605657 742514 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++......-....++.... < 1325605657 898593 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :------,,,,.... < 1325605825 638368 :MSleep!~fyrc@or-67-238-19-212.dhcp.embarqhsd.net NICK :MDude < 1325605899 999761 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1325606840 215377 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1325607012 38709 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1325608763 399834 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu < 1325609348 14672 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1325609551 613578 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :looking a bit closer at this bekenstein thing.. < 1325609554 267846 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well.. < 1325609583 427924 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a mass next to another mass exerts a certain amount of gravity force on it < 1325609705 974237 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is to say, that modelling the static state of something is one question < 1325609734 717731 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but modelling the dynamic physical state of something probably requires modelling the totality of the universe acting upon it < 1325609757 335862 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a guess < 1325609936 522094 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: welcome sir < 1325609942 965856 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome itidus21 < 1325609947 63004 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: < 1325609985 200713 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ty hackego for not patronizing me < 1325610057 294504 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm just typing rubbish as usual.. < 1325610058 723362 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: well this depends on what exactly you're trying to model, and how sophisticated the computer system is on which you're modelling it. < 1325610131 12770 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm.. well i guess what i mean is you can't cut and paste the universe < 1325610133 143097 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example, there's no need to measure the effects of the gravity of Mars and Jupitor on a soccer ball on Earth because the inverse square laws results in incredibly meager forces. < 1325610145 283630 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it may be values so close to 0 that your computer cannot represent them as anything other than 0 < 1325610165 344512 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :since the two regions will act differently < 1325610173 541108 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :depending on where they are in the universe < 1325610236 995387 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1325610265 978210 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-4-250.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1325610266 350813 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-4-250.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1325610266 507232 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1325610280 660057 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure. To be an accurate system you'd want your subset of the universe to be as closed as possible. < 1325610287 883255 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm.. well i guess what i mean is you can't cut and paste the universe, since the distance between the 2 regions will have an effect on the behaviour of those regions < 1325610310 578796 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : for example, there's no need to measure the effects of the gravity of Mars and Jupitor on a soccer ball on Earth because the inverse square laws results in incredibly meager forces. < 1325610316 316885 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jupitor. < 1325610319 415524 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like.. if you cut and pasted a high mass piece of the universe next to itself.. each mass would have a strong effect on each other mass < 1325610331 728050 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: what you've heard of Jupitor? crazy britons. < 1325610351 229794 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you cut and pasted those same masses very far apart the effect would be less < 1325610369 797812 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I shouldn't even entertain such notions with you. You've probably never heard of the inverse square laws.. < 1325610384 425465 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :meager forces add up < 1325610389 578818 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric : :-D < 1325610418 598159 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :they also subtract up in absolute terms since we're talking about vectors. < 1325610419 272060 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure we do, they're the laws obeyed by the curve generated by inverting a square through a circle. < 1325610420 225419 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: gravity travels at the speed of light. copy and paste your universe into a different reference frame moving away from the first at the speed of light and problem solved < 1325610449 266294 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose its not "ok" to cut and paste regions of the universe < 1325610462 222672 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in mathematical or physics sense even < 1325610472 753668 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : itidus21: gravity travels at the speed of light. copy and paste your universe into a different reference frame moving away from the first at the speed of light and problem solved < 1325610477 192977 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT'S MORE COMPLICATED THAN THAT < 1325610501 549507 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it < 1325610516 861677 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :im just trying to say that as everyone already knows, the universe can't model itself < 1325610531 335418 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because im a newbie and i say such things < 1325610544 61230 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: yes you need a better clipboard to do that kind of stuff. < 1325610558 647267 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I recommend one of those fancy external clipboard programs. < 1325610566 329830 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :they have a lot of nice features. < 1325610578 324559 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, *everything* affects gravity, not just matter. < 1325610633 502068 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: but what I'm saying is that if you calculate a value to be 0 because your computer lacks the precision to regard that value as anything other than zero, then adding a bunch of zeros together is not going to add up in any measurable sense. < 1325610642 433629 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: are you going to tell me that two systems moving apart at the speed of light can have an effect on one another? < 1325610648 886858 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : im just trying to say that as everyone already knows, the universe can't model itself < 1325610664 600819 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're saying that self-interpreters are impossible? < 1325610691 821752 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry < 1325610709 157642 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe its possible < 1325610725 967153 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.crafts4kids.com/projects/images/solar-sys.jpg doomsday device. the universe will implode now. < 1325610744 248823 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should stop discussing these topics if i don't want to discuss them < 1325610834 433564 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: well just consider that it doesn't take the same amount of resources to accurate model a smaller scale version of the universe than it does to operate a full scale model. < 1325610842 887138 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it did, then yes, that would be impossible. < 1325610870 898867 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there might exist backups of the universe? :-s < 1325610886 521428 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the data is present, sure. < 1325610894 738917 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but... no I doubt it. :P < 1325610926 218325 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that probably hits the backup infinite regression problem < 1325610934 120909 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :needing backups of backups < 1325610961 752472 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :just the first backup is already a monumental task. < 1325610978 963477 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1325610993 645800 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably not the best thing for me at 4am either < 1325611002 361065 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you're considering just the capability of such a thing and ignoring all practically, I would say that it's at least possible. < 1325611004 429495 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its not going to help me relax < 1325611007 65979 :cheater!~cheater@dslb-084-057-014-213.pools.arcor-ip.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1325611075 565803 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, I think in terms of classical physics for the most part. I don't know much at all about quantum physics, so my intuition likely breaks down at that level. < 1325611088 200002 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so then it becomes a question, how precise of a model do you want? < 1325611111 236358 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :enough to get girls probably < 1325611128 202037 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't imagine theres any other motive < 1325611150 128941 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: I'm afraid there may be no end to your goal in sight.. < 1325611166 700485 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :girls like cars and money. sorry. < 1325611175 2796 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you'd need a lot of money to simulate the universe though. < 1325611182 37262 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so indirectly, perhaps. < 1325611185 95181 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"oh tidus, what a wonderful universe simulation you have made" < 1325611193 690255 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"i think so" < 1325611234 682391 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course you could simulate women in lieu of actual women.. but.. I think I should probably abandon that path of discussion. < 1325611312 141104 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-6-216.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325611315 862092 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-6-216.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1325611324 540085 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this is where the precision of your models really comes into play) < 1325611373 556961 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-6-216.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... < 1325611394 723660 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-6-216.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The odds of me having seen elliott have increased mildly < 1325611434 92115 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Due to the Scottish weather? < 1325611467 902656 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should write brainfuck on the public toilet walls < 1325611475 503156 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-6-216.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, due to me seeing someone I did not recognise but about my age at around the time when, according to the logs, "engree", whom I presume to be elliott, went to sleep < 1325611493 648144 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-6-216.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, I'll write some lambda calculus < 1325611505 848880 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you in hexham? < 1325611506 524968 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: yes that was elliott < 1325611513 153969 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-6-216.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, yes < 1325611528 241461 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-6-216.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, engree, or the person whom I saw < 1325611536 178032 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1325611536 495945 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: engree < 1325611538 243055 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. < 1325611544 753292 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is code as graffiti bad? :D < 1325611546 223982 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I'm psychic. :P < 1325611551 665524 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder how far such ideas have gone < 1325611560 763822 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-6-216.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, I'd imagine not very < 1325611595 150323 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :google images suggests "not very much" < 1325611653 824198 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: anyway what makes you think that this random person your age that you saw after elliott went to sleep is elliott? < 1325611665 428025 :mr_schlauch!threeohthr@wololo.at.freebnc.net QUIT :Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in < 1325611713 161188 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-6-216.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, /at around the same time/ as elliott whent to sleep < 1325611740 771378 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-6-216.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I said the odds of increased mildly, not OMG TOTALLYZ SEEN ELLIOTT LOL < 1325611746 404052 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :??? < 1325611748 468253 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1325611749 462695 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay. < 1325611752 25940 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure. < 1325611755 716165 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I doubt it. < 1325611758 771662 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :just sayin' < 1325611764 688018 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://boingboing.net/2009/10/09/c-graffiti.html < 1325611784 457619 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1325611785 887285 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/pAy4z.png < 1325611806 258553 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: ah I see you've found the zenith of the artform. < 1325611829 567491 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I told them I knew C because I am good with word and email so they hired me." looooool < 1325611838 856419 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't see a declaration of ii though < 1325611852 702663 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow it took them an entire 2 months to get fired. that's incredible. < 1325611857 630797 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i get it < 1325611861 124099 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its (;;) < 1325612055 410509 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: amazing < 1325612055 768284 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. < 1325612130 296346 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages < 1325612130 613871 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't have any new messages. < 1325612134 197550 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :spOOky < 1325612375 751198 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:56:13: come on, mc dropped retro the day it implemented smooth light < 1325612375 908589 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:56:47: That was someone else's idea, though, and optional in any case. < 1325612376 65392 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:57:00: well that stuff isn't around any more < 1325612376 65547 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:57:29: Isn't it still toggleable? (I certainly haven't looked.) < 1325612377 376954 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it is. < 1325612386 350413 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's on-by-default, though. < 1325612460 599036 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:05:48: I made up a big number, according to these functions of natural numbers, where ^ means exponent and ! means factorial and ; separates the definitions. < 1325612460 755662 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:06:51: f(0,0) = 1; f(x,0) = x^f(x-1,k(x,x!)); f(x,y) = x!+k(y^f(x,0),y^f(x,y-1)) < 1325612460 755891 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:07:24: k(x,0) = 2^h(x,0); k(x,y) = (x+y)^k((xy)^(xy),y-1) < 1325612460 755991 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:07:54: h(0,0) = 1; h(x,0) = p(h(x-1,p(x))); h(x,y) = p(h(x,y-1)) < 1325612460 756090 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:08:02: p(x) = x'th prime number; p(0)=1 < 1325612461 950769 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:08:20: q(x,0) = f(x,0); q(x,y) = f(q(x,y-1),q(x,y-1)) < 1325612464 15159 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:08:28: Big number = q(2,q(2,2)) < 1325612465 982197 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:09:15: How large is it, what is its one's digit, what is its most significant digit, how does it compare to other big numbers, and etc? < 1325612468 969950 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:10:36: Is it larger or smaller than: Skew's number, Moser's number, Graham's number, and XKCD's number? < 1325612472 29300 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:10:59: Or even equal? < 1325612474 134290 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am completely unqualified to answer this, but I really doubt it's as big as Graham's number. < 1325613077 845981 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:34:41: ((?!foo).)* sounds like something that at least a commonly stupid regex engine would implement in the rather bad "check for a 'foo' substring at each position" way. < 1325613078 2346 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:36:31: would the pearl regex engine implement that in the bad way? < 1325613078 2530 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:36:33: *perl < 1325613078 2664 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:36:39: -!- Jafet has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). < 1325613078 2770 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:36:40: b/c that's what mushclient uses < 1325613079 275473 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:37:53: From what I've heard, it's not uncommonly smart. < 1325613081 378783 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:52:30: Patashu: http://sprunge.us/fdXW -- well, that doesn't look excessively smart. Though I guess it's possible the debug mode inhibits some optimilizations. < 1325613091 581264 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Patashu was almost certainly referring to PCRE... < 1325613110 211965 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:11:17: pikhq: Well, this is none of those; this is under the xor of all those licenses. A term applies iff only a single license in the set has it. < 1325613110 407736 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:11:30: that's not xor, xor means an odd number < 1325613110 407928 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:11:59: it's addition (mod 2), after all < 1325613110 408097 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, right. < 1325613143 724996 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:54:14: So is the weather in Hexham today Scotland? http://i.imgur.com/SWaD6.jpg < 1325613151 749089 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: The winds actually blew us over the border. < 1325613331 362212 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I sort of thought it was maybe about PCRE, but since e just said "Perl"... < 1325613351 749124 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Embedding Perl's regexp engine in some software and then exposing it to Lua would be impressive. < 1325613387 378261 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :13:58:06: Heh, that was a funny bug. We have this audio file reader which used to take as a parameter whether it's reading a .wav file or a raw data file; then it'd open with libsndfile and read. At some point, someone "improved" it so that it just tries to open it with libsndfile as "unknown format", and if that fails, uses it as a raw data file instead. < 1325613387 535286 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :13:59:11: Turns out that for one particular file, after one particular piece of processing, the raw audio file (which it was) happens to contain initial bytes that look enough like some random audio format to confuse libsndfile. < 1325613395 997434 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :HA HA HA I CAN'T STOP LAUGHING OH THE LIFE OF A SPEECH RECOGNITION RESEARCHER < 1325613422 712200 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-6-216.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I felt like getting a grasp on zzo38's number < 1325613430 696881 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently someone else had hit the bug too, and had added an override parameter back. But it still has the automagic logic if you don't specify anything. < 1325613432 614249 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-6-216.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's scary < 1325614071 373332 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You've clearly never heard of Graham's number. < 1325614586 737186 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@222.122.156.78 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: and TREE(3). < 1325614933 3380 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-152-62.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325614933 285955 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-146-128.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1325614969 935751 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Pfffft, you've CLEARLY never heard of inaccessible cardinals! < 1325615398 223283 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325615469 629740 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-6-216.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1325615498 666849 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1325615500 113055 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-6-216.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do I stop being away? < 1325615510 15691 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Be present < 1325615512 652441 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or type /unaway or w/e < 1325615526 416293 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-6-216.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :w/e < 1325615526 735051 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :on irssi it's just /away with no arguments < 1325615534 7480 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-6-216.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm on XChat < 1325615536 549027 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no clue. < 1325615575 406104 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, my intuition would suggest that have multiple processors does not increase the speed at which you can send packets over a network. < 1325615584 436345 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-6-216.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: IDEA! < 1325615584 754721 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1325615594 227421 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :as your processor count increases your network adapter becomes a larger bottleneck. yes? < 1325615604 83483 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-6-216.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325615607 519030 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, a smaller bottleneck, I guess. < 1325615609 177526 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-6-216.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Back! < 1325615619 59662 :lahwran!lahwran@unaffiliated/lahwran PRIVMSG #esoteric : on irssi it's just /away with no arguments < 1325615628 221313 :lahwran!lahwran@unaffiliated/lahwran PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, that's not irssi - that's the irc specification of AWAY < 1325615648 198038 :lahwran!lahwran@unaffiliated/lahwran PRIVMSG #esoteric :some clients alias /back or /unaway to a /away with no arguments < 1325615650 119278 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. didn't know. I always prefix my IRC suggestions with "in irssi, it works like this" < 1325615656 689520 :lahwran!lahwran@unaffiliated/lahwran PRIVMSG #esoteric :xchat does the former < 1325616479 135967 :augur_!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325616659 5440 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1325616824 163537 :augur_!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net NICK :augur < 1325617352 931781 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone use a non-qwerty layout? < 1325617399 604179 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1325617422 743275 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1325617597 975032 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use qwerty except I swapped t and y. < 1325617621 146844 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325617761 688147 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :because qweryt sounds better? < 1325618093 585222 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Totally. < 1325618425 46142 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> appEndo $ mappend (Endo f) (Endo g) < 1325618425 998560 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Overlapping instances for GHC.Show.Show (a -> a) < 1325618426 155467 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use of `... < 1325618427 628797 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :grr < 1325618429 339294 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> appEndo $ mappend (Endo f) (Endo g) :: Expr < 1325618430 133726 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `SimpleReflect.Expr' < 1325618430 290122 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred ... < 1325618435 272058 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1325618439 249592 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> appEndo (mappend (Endo f) (Endo g)) x :: Expr < 1325618440 427080 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : f (g x) < 1325618446 108887 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (f >>> g) x < 1325618447 72224 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Ambiguous type variable `b' in the constraints: < 1325618447 229153 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : `SimpleReflect.FromExpr ... < 1325618448 381448 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :knew it < 1325618547 334109 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-152-62.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1325618550 433710 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-216-214.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325618653 295063 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1325618687 126192 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1325618704 515295 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi elliott < 1325618791 143070 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325618857 607875 :premek!~premek@197-14-80-78.tmcz.cz JOIN :#esoteric < 1325618966 601043 :premek!~premek@197-14-80-78.tmcz.cz PART :#esoteric < 1325619005 378848 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`words --eng-gb 10 < 1325619010 670523 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :herefine rol cha bourterminim ing katlanz eive diseuen karto inde < 1325619033 84784 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bourterminim. < 1325619048 506466 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Herefine sounds like an archaic word. < 1325619051 245102 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Place name maybe. < 1325619070 543195 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Should we stop here?" "Fine." < 1325619543 12181 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl print map {$_, 'c' } "hello" < 1325619546 822104 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :helloc < 1325619552 60542 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no bad < 1325620147 281075 :NihilistDandy!~NihilistD@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1325620726 920084 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl print "h", uc " ", "i" < 1325620727 433989 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :h i < 1325620781 172357 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl print "h", uc undef, "i" < 1325620781 647760 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1325620787 511575 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl print "h", uc undef // " ", "i" < 1325620787 987265 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1325620791 359379 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1325620802 943416 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-6-216.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl print "hello" < 1325620803 578505 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1325620808 582768 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-6-216.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My first perl program < 1325621132 106796 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :17:24:35: No, due to me seeing someone I did not recognise but about my age at around the time when, according to the logs, "engree", whom I presume to be elliott, went to sleep < 1325621135 316864 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: Wasn't me. < 1325621150 154794 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-6-216.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, mystery solved < 1325621170 534344 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: Well, unless you peeked in my window or something. < 1325621193 712529 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-6-216.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone's door < 1325621221 437420 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl $_"hi"; %t{uc}=ucfirst; print %t; < 1325621222 72996 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :String found where operator expected at /tmp/input.15666 line 1, near "$_"hi"" \.(Missing operator before "hi"?) \ syntax error at /tmp/input.15666 line 1, near "$_"hi"" \ syntax error at /tmp/input.15666 line 1, near "%t{uc" \ Execution of /tmp/input.15666 aborted due to compilation errors. < 1325621233 365127 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl $_="hi"; %t{uc}=ucfirst; print %t; < 1325621234 40414 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :syntax error at /tmp/input.15724 line 1, near "%t{uc" \ Execution of /tmp/input.15724 aborted due to compilation errors. < 1325621238 406742 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl $_="hi"; $t{uc}=ucfirst; print %t; < 1325621238 884066 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ucHi < 1325621265 762301 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl $_="hi"; $t{&uc}=ucfirst; print %t; < 1325621266 278168 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Undefined subroutine &main::uc called at /tmp/input.15851 line 1. < 1325621277 922128 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl $_="hi"; $t{;uc}=ucfirst; print %t; < 1325621278 557803 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :syntax error at /tmp/input.15907 line 1, near "{;" \ syntax error at /tmp/input.15907 line 1, near "uc}" \ Execution of /tmp/input.15907 aborted due to compilation errors. < 1325621282 87895 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl $_="hi"; $t{+uc}=ucfirst; print %t; < 1325621282 614804 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :HIHi < 1325621288 219111 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1325621340 807992 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :adding unary plus to expressions to change their semantics is what Perl is all about. < 1325621420 290338 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1325621552 631332 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-4-250.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1325621552 988992 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-4-250.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1325621553 146102 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1325621612 30513 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.amazon.co.uk/coal-primer-William-Patrick-Rogers/dp/B0007302VM/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top < 1325621615 403872 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey guys, should I buy this book? < 1325621644 693095 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not? < 1325621661 100827 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: It's a little on the pricey side, don't you think? < 1325621666 154311 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah. < 1325621681 125786 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess if it's worth it! < 1325621793 736995 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Thanks for your advice, but I think I'll go with http://www.amazon.co.uk/Landolt-B%C3%B6rnstein-Set-2011-Functional-Relationships/dp/3642201067/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1325621737&sr=1-1 instead < 1325621799 597048 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I don't trust third-party sellers < 1325621810 319922 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The added £2.80 for delivery is a bit much. What, no Super Saver stuff? < 1325621813 909728 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also the 5% discount is nice. < 1325621852 358044 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl @x=1..5; print map{@x}@x #yeaaaaaaaah < 1325621852 748622 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :1234512345123451234512345 < 1325621882 567492 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Paperback: 7190 pages". That's a big book. < 1325621891 431855 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's 15 volumes. < 1325621896 161724 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: This one has free delivery: http://www.amazon.co.uk/13CNMR-Organic-Compounds-SpecInfo-Wolfgang/dp/0471662410/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1325621737&sr=1-2 < 1325621899 101477 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also it's a CD-ROM. < 1325621906 716199 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also I'm just getting these from Phantom_Hoover, he's missing out bigtime on #esoteric karma. < 1325621921 404610 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You little git! < 1325621927 155032 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes I feel Perl is a little overzealous with the warnings. < 1325621944 697598 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it told me that a , in a qw could possibly be an attempt to seperate words with commas. < 1325621960 9043 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl qw( z x c v b n m , .) < 1325621960 486187 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1325621965 776419 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl use warnings; qw( z x c v b n m , .) < 1325621966 412786 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possible attempt to separate words with commas at /tmp/input.17516 line 1. \ Useless use of a constant in void context at /tmp/input.17516 line 1. \ Useless use of a constant in void context at /tmp/input.17516 line 1. \ Useless use of a constant in void context at /tmp/input.17516 line 1. \ Useless use of a constant in void context at /tmp/input.17516 line 1. \ Useless use of a constant in void context at /tmp/input.17516 < 1325621987 333229 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl use warnings; print qw( z x c v b n m , .); < 1325621988 199640 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possible attempt to separate words with commas at /tmp/input.17585 line 1. \ zxcvbnm,. < 1325622163 85431 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1325622188 698530 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`words 50 < 1325622196 88933 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :sertenchare pensici solvo gab ermin aft chapp nier serr liie capdlak neret anntracti uiier bertic misson supprompt soufe trabit sposusan urdla jai farmg dun sobrig cond peet sthophal gonomi koll paraflow nonum segm jex guh reque rez lay cabe nei aspecte aculin vouanth echlori idly luinzeigh know pitudie armoread mahart < 1325622212 221533 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :capdlak < 1325622219 998980 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no TOPIC #esoteric :Welcome to the world championship in sertenchare and capdlak | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1325622245 530771 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no TOPIC #esoteric :Welcome to the world championship in sertenchare, pensici, solvo and capdlak | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1325622264 722723 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you forgot paraflow supprompt and armoread < 1325622265 226310 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott TOPIC #esoteric :Welcome to the world championship in sertenchare, pensici, solvo and capdlak | "Aft Chapp Nier Serr, Liee Neret Anntracti" | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1325622295 943191 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also sthophal < 1325622299 916623 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you guys picked all the wrong words. < 1325622319 561234 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :mahart is idly pitudie < 1325622516 710174 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well no one could possibly deny that pensici, solvo, capdlak, sposusan and gonomi are supprompt game names < 1325622586 826882 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :I SAID NO ONE COULD POSSIBLY DENY IT < 1325622596 350895 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? sorry, i was off on a bertic misson < 1325622599 179306 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION denies it < 1325622604 574238 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :except quintopia. < 1325622700 45356 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hand me the aculin, we have a rampant echlori infection here! < 1325622754 423041 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`words --eng-all 50 #we need crazier words < 1325622761 491274 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :placox eal heperoifersey misien cayu vicarne gesin comeca hirten crun eechr sig corrh lanzugenem pontedth hen divir con nephaltur johand hoff solousleisel fanwe unned pringay nyi gwaei parv daljave livaiin fayr sume costor mir refle sdoublival pana roxyfm dale cice chianartum makircusape shell forsac prestant estehilizata masca toria culuterphilig ehr < 1325622774 70985 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the patient's segm is serring, we need more sthophal! < 1325622828 851661 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks like the patient has placox chianartum < 1325622927 438051 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :get a livaiin nephaltur, stat! < 1325622959 169990 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you heard of that fancy new music website called roxyfm? < 1325623032 986991 :_Slereah!~butt@ANantes-259-1-217-73.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr NICK :Slereah < 1325626742 638847 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : I am completely unqualified to answer this, but I really doubt it's as big as Graham's number. <-- *MWAHAHAHA* < 1325626749 426634 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: wat < 1325626757 113545 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, i also doubt it, with even some qualification < 1325626784 337645 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(see logs) < 1325626815 561958 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: right < 1325626841 50425 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: the "completely unqualified" part was just humbleness, I knew it was smaller when I realised it was just a bunch of nestings of ^ and ! :P < 1325626863 194455 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well _technically_ so is graham's number :P < 1325626887 859399 :iconmaster[3]!~iconmaste@cpe-74-79-18-174.twcny.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1325626929 24293 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yeah, but this doesn't apply the large numbers to the /control flow/ < 1325626981 867975 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess that's another way of saying it has to be primitive recursive < 1325627077 587865 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it was not intended to be a precise assessment :P < 1325627106 437851 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :none of the functions is using itself to determine its recursion depth < 1325627120 352273 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1325627149 101232 :iconmaster[3]!~iconmaste@cpe-74-79-18-174.twcny.res.rr.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1325627160 563468 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, i guess that's it < 1325627190 579595 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Frooxius: what year did AttoASM first become public? 2011, or 2012? < 1325627257 496755 :iconmaster!~iconmaste@cpe-74-79-18-174.twcny.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1325627284 484067 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :he linked to a video of it from 2011 iirc < 1325627289 859202 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i think he's just released the lang itself < 1325627318 910354 :iconmaster!~iconmaste@cpe-74-79-18-174.twcny.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :whew FINALLY connected: I came to the conclusion that my IRC client is shit. < 1325627346 802726 :iconmaster!~iconmaste@cpe-74-79-18-174.twcny.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you get a bunch of wierd messages from me? < 1325627404 766757 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :iconmaster: not that i noticed < 1325627417 98258 :iconmaster!~iconmaste@cpe-74-79-18-174.twcny.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently, arbitarily picking your IRC client from the first item on Wikipedia's IRC Client List is not a good idea. < 1325627433 659634 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don'ts ay < 1325627442 56778 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION dont's ay all day < 1325627459 214514 :iconmaster!~iconmaste@cpe-74-79-18-174.twcny.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(My old client was Bersirc. Notic the alphabetic precedence.) < 1325627480 726218 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAIRC < 1325627497 600967 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the world's most reassuring irc client < 1325627539 542790 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello! welcome to #esoteric! hello! welcome to #esoteric! hello! wel < 1325627659 622946 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1325627683 862960 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Welcome aboard! We know that some of you may be a little nervous about traveling on the world's first fully automated airplane, but we can assure you that there is nothing to worry about nothing to worry about nothing to worry about no < 1325627711 880797 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-6-216.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :We have a bot that does this for us, fungot < 1325627712 197629 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: how do you keep doing that? women, do i? where is fraulein dr smith, the traitorous rat! there's a rat! there's a rat! there's a rat! there's a rat! there's a rat! there's a rat! there's a rat! there's a rat! there's a rat! there's a rat! there's a rat! there's a rat! there's a rat! there's a rat! there's a rat! there's a rat! there's a rat! there's a rat! there's a rat! there's a rat! there's a rat! there's a rat! there < 1325627722 498327 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1325627723 608614 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lucky < 1325627723 765071 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: bravo! < 1325627723 927144 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: no, the boy, do i? the scorpion and a killer taipan possibilities. we could kill, not get killed, but there was a software glitch and you didn't die in reality! pteranowaffe! < 1325627734 795813 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1325627734 955443 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs* jargon lovecraft nethack pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube < 1325627768 695056 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :î thought iwc got a little repetititive at the end < 1325627771 609199 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style youtube < 1325627771 765479 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: youtube (Some YouTube comments) < 1325627776 338628 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot < 1325627776 657419 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: what if she never was, at the end you hear the truth, all these people accept amazingly lucky sods? and how many octaves do you really are some old pics, great everything < 1325627833 169150 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck, i haven't been keeping up with iwc reruns < 1325627840 479964 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: have the sunday annotations still been good < 1325627874 97515 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1325627876 358878 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: sure < 1325627935 164532 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: don't tell me youtube comments are less repetitive than iwc! < 1325627935 323830 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: the accident report? i think mona is looking more and more!! its kinda scary at first but it was < 1325627958 92193 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: yes that's scary < 1325627958 291433 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: boy, suuure looks like everything i hear it was manned. ignore him. < 1325627973 218435 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, hugs < 1325627973 376711 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Madoka-Kaname: yes. there were passengers and none of you. < 1325627981 304926 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, I hate you :( < 1325627981 461230 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Madoka-Kaname: this game. < 1325627989 15111 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: it seems youtube comments are a bit short < 1325627989 174373 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: bad thing is it when the plane < 1325627994 188902 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :functor < 1325627995 974809 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er. < 1325627997 443783 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot < 1325627997 602801 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: looks ok. now be gone, troll. thats bad. < 1325628001 294993 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1325628001 451400 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube* < 1325628047 591758 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style lovecraft < 1325628047 751538 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: lovecraft (H. P. Lovecraft's writings) < 1325628051 638230 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, are you okey? < 1325628052 630609 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Madoka-Kaname: the inhabitants of a given dimensional realm could survive entry to many unknown and incomprehensible realms of additional or indefinitely multiplied dimensions be they within or outside the given space-time continuum and that the vital parts of the < 1325628062 316142 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, are you... okey? < 1325628062 949945 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Madoka-Kaname: our first whose exact fate we had never learned to drive should be ordering me about and taking the fnord a.m., while traversing a long, black line scarcely rising above the water yet carrying a suggestion of the fnord < 1325628078 854750 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :more like off-key < 1325628099 736643 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, hugs? < 1325628100 689564 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Madoka-Kaname: my head is weak from thirst, suffocation, cardiac strain, and badly in need of charles's constant oversight. charles sent his best wishes, and of a quaint colonial village. the nurse used to stop and sit on carved benches of porphyry scanning the stars, necessarily vague as it was < 1325628252 366959 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1325628445 966685 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1325628476 176647 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, make sense :< < 1325628477 329442 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Madoka-Kaname: i studied psychology systematically, and under all conditions, was fnord that my mind needed a rest. wish i dared to get help it might brace up my will power but everyone who would dare to come at all would call me crazy unless there happened to be some proof. couldnt ask people to come for no reason at all am all out of sight. this was the < 1325628486 767849 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style homestuck < 1325628486 924282 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: homestuck (Homestuck pages 1901-4673) < 1325628491 329597 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, can you make sense now? < 1325628496 785699 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, hello? < 1325628516 704460 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thank fucking god fungot has a message limit. < 1325628517 182235 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: his birthday is in a few minutes. wow he is so cool. two more large gizmos. it was once the island remained except the pony a begrudging pat, as gently in the horn fell off. dammit. < 1325628568 609281 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1325628582 266815 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :In my earlier days, I cursed the message limit. < 1325628589 94303 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I see it for the blessing it truly is. < 1325628589 413662 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1325628690 784746 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t find < 1325628691 629773 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (a -> Bool) -> [a] -> Maybe a < 1325628749 673849 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (.:) < 1325628750 631792 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b (f :: * -> *) (g :: * -> *). (Functor f, Functor g) => (a -> b) -> f (g a) -> f (g b) < 1325628760 569284 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION blinks < 1325628780 645237 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> nubBy((>1).:gcd)[2..] < 1325628782 594076 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [2,3,5,7,11,13,17,19,23,29,31,37,41,43,47,53,59,61,67,71,73,79,83,89,97,101... < 1325628786 957240 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-6-216.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: Goodbye < 1325628819 389793 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it's caleskell, man < 1325628822 328320 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (.) . (.) < 1325628823 121870 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (f :: * -> *) a b (f1 :: * -> *). (Functor f, Functor f1) => (a -> b) -> f (f1 a) -> f (f1 b) < 1325628836 366902 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :.: is great < 1325628869 82458 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (.) . (.) . (.) < 1325628869 875390 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (f :: * -> *) (f1 :: * -> *) a b (f2 :: * -> *). (Functor f, Functor f1, Functor f2) => (a -> b) -> f (f1 (f2 a)) -> f (f1 (f2 b)) < 1325628880 144022 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (.) < 1325628881 135420 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b (f :: * -> *). (Functor f) => (a -> b) -> f a -> f b < 1325628885 183513 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: just think of (.) as liftF < 1325628891 940915 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're lifting into the nth depth of a stack of functors < 1325628896 333768 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :by composing liftFs < 1325628906 675765 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (.:.) < 1325628907 684938 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `.:.' < 1325628921 326881 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (..:) < 1325628922 346537 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `..:' < 1325628982 174801 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1325629062 262794 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ty (.::) < 1325629063 111779 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `.::' < 1325629074 840612 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@let (.::) = (.) . (.) .(.) < 1325629075 989902 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Defined. < 1325629114 493313 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Total Recall combinator. < 1325629280 297526 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel like words/unwords and lines/unlines should have their names flipped. < 1325629317 697882 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel like you're wrong. < 1325629333 664304 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also feel like lines/unlines and words/unwords are evil because they lose information. < 1325629340 886385 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well sure. < 1325629350 168036 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're not perfect inverses, no. < 1325629360 122881 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're EVIL inverses. < 1325629366 679096 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably you don't want that extra information, and if you do, you want to use something. < 1325629381 212399 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :something isn't evil because it doesn't fill the purpose you want it to. < 1325629384 26529 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want a function onlines :: (String -> String) -> String -> String < 1325629399 66123 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is usually implemented as \f -> unlines . f . lines, which is wrong. < 1325629405 850771 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed. < 1325629445 573862 :DCliche!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325629452 795340 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still I think unlines makes more sense a function that splits a string by lines, removing the lines from the strings < 1325629464 582513 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"lines" gives you the lines in a string. < 1325629467 371952 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and lines taking a list of strings and produce a single string of lines. < 1325629468 643349 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"unlines" does the opposite of lines. < 1325629484 138143 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Think more, like, declaratively, man. < 1325629486 676981 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: you could do the exact same thing with the flipped meanings. < 1325629497 145092 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1325629516 660648 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti's proposal is nonsense. < 1325629518 445827 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"lines" gives you a list of strings as lines < 1325629518 922129 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott would like to explain. < 1325629520 229562 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf is completely right. < 1325629522 450853 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"unlines" does the opposite of lines. < 1325629525 666964 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is my explanation. < 1325629533 289436 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Are you going to Hac Boston? < 1325629536 740377 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: "lines xs" is not the lines of xs. < 1325629539 639085 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Therefore the name is wrong. < 1325629555 210169 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"foldr f z xs" is the fold of (f,z) over xs, so the name is right. "succ x" is the successor of x, so the name is right. < 1325629563 328235 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"lines s" is the lines of s, so the name is right. < 1325629564 923045 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: No. < 1325629626 55460 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: IF foldr f z xs IS THE FOLD OF (f,z) OVER xs, WHY ISN'T IT CALLED foldr (f,z) xs??? < 1325629666 356238 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I was going to say "f and z" but then I decided to be a MATHEMATICIAN about it!!!!!! < 1325629676 297440 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :We should use "of" as infix application syntax. < 1325629680 502262 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And allow spaces in function names. < 1325629690 548080 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1325629693 336788 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo = the unlines of the lines of xs < 1325629698 200295 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :replicate of 3 of "hello" < 1325629754 477458 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I'll give this guy 5 minutes to accept my answer < 1325629777 569473 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I like how your "of" basically breaks down completely. < 1325629777 886768 :iconmaster!~iconmaste@cpe-74-79-18-174.twcny.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I had this silly idea < 1325629782 265932 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*of analogy < 1325629792 221736 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because some Haskell functions are in fact verbs. < 1325629795 567566 :iconmaster!~iconmaste@cpe-74-79-18-174.twcny.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm writingh an "auto-responder bot" < 1325629826 990216 :iconmaster!~iconmaste@cpe-74-79-18-174.twcny.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty much when I'm away, there will be a shitty chatbot that talks when you mention it < 1325629837 126221 :iconmaster!~iconmaste@cpe-74-79-18-174.twcny.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess like fungot but less markov-y? < 1325629837 285769 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :iconmaster: is it < 1325629840 29062 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Congratulations, you've invented fungot. < 1325629840 346593 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but, there are imps around, the pad. it's hard to remember though your cross-hairs would never settle on an innocent little girl. chokes up now imagine she's white. < 1325629847 753801 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you got ninja'd < 1325629853 272683 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote elliott: but, there are imps around, the pad. it's hard to remember though your cross-hairs would never settle on an innocent little girl. chokes up now imagine she's white. < 1325629853 590464 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: john, the uncarved minitablet. john carved this tablet at the request. it's just a wrapper for your private reading material later, you will play a game with a dead heir and witch < 1325629856 388061 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :794) elliott: but, there are imps around, the pad. it's hard to remember though your cross-hairs would never settle on an innocent little girl. chokes up now imagine she's white. < 1325629860 831530 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot is a depraved individual. < 1325629861 28486 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so just to review, your schemes, convoluted. you are planning a heist in your underground hideout. implement nefarious as you might, you can't out troll me in these like < 1325629864 10844 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that is not a good fungot quote < 1325629864 169421 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: of what??? now you've seen everything! weaky, is it really so much to the frustration of the suitor. < 1325629868 18992 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :iconmaster: you should make it sentient like Strider's bot... < 1325629868 174772 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1325629870 617237 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1325629871 887025 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :735) i cnat eve begin to understand what you meant with that "one" < 1325629872 45749 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1325629873 196136 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1325629874 623303 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1325629881 163649 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :461) elliott: You have become the very thing you fought for! < 1325629885 280776 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :448) pikhq, living in the future sucks. The past just keeps coming up to us and trying to make us feel guilty. < 1325629885 597766 :iconmaster!~iconmaste@cpe-74-79-18-174.twcny.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Srider was an inspiration, so i'll try my hardest < 1325629906 759997 :iconmaster!~iconmaste@cpe-74-79-18-174.twcny.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah, it'll prolly just be a shitty chat-bot < 1325629927 725086 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :chitty-chat bot < 1325629935 170522 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :674) It's missing the "bear scat showing a diet of prime numbers" picture. < 1325629935 338171 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :490) rest in peace lambdabot???? monqy: it'll probably be back later nap in peace < 1325629946 723209 :iconmaster!~iconmaste@cpe-74-79-18-174.twcny.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, this IRC library I'm using right now... It's not documented almost at all < 1325629966 604842 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could just write your own IRC code; the protocol is trivial. < 1325629970 668616 :iconmaster!~iconmaste@cpe-74-79-18-174.twcny.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had to fix the example < 1325629973 320159 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: 735 the worst? < 1325629977 724129 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: only 4 have came < 1325629989 435349 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: there are 5: 735 461 448 674 490 < 1325630004 545800 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are 5 quotes! < 1325630017 80016 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, right. i like them all but 674 is prolly worst < 1325630026 529510 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't get 735 at all < 1325630033 855658 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot's Homestuck mode is the best. < 1325630034 54302 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: so just to review, your schemes, convoluted. you are planning a heist in your underground hideout. implement nefarious as you might, you can't out troll me in these like little else, is still just that. a single, linear concept. a concept usually denoted by a single, linear concept. a concept usually denoted by a single, linear concept. a concept usually denoted by a single, linear concept. a concept usually den < 1325630038 62136 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :674 sounds like it might have a context < 1325630058 841377 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I like the fungot styles other people seem to hate < 1325630058 999079 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: not that it would actually bother pitying you. < 1325630065 27771 :iconmaster!~iconmaste@cpe-74-79-18-174.twcny.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so testing of my bot is at #iconbot < 1325630073 881378 :iconmaster!~iconmaste@cpe-74-79-18-174.twcny.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing there right now < 1325630094 540134 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's "Homestuck"? < 1325630100 211962 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :People keep talking about it on the Internet. < 1325630103 427388 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which probably emans it's bad. < 1325630106 124406 :iconmaster!~iconmaste@cpe-74-79-18-174.twcny.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Homestuck is basically the best thing ever. < 1325630114 330851 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's very good, but the people who like it are terrible. < 1325630125 688976 :iconmaster!~iconmaste@cpe-74-79-18-174.twcny.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree. < 1325630131 931761 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :examples: elliott, kallisti, Sgeo, iconmaster < 1325630148 714665 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :By which I mean any given set of people who like it will identify some subset of the others as terrible, and the intersection of these is nonempty. < 1325630170 634298 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I identify everybody as terrible. < 1325630179 82195 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, you're well on the way. < 1325630180 988410 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Including Homestuck. < 1325630257 310561 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, keep it up and you'll be a top-flight Homestuck fan in no time. < 1325630274 48325 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This looks boring. < 1325630278 775123 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, all you really need to do is accurately identify Homestuck references so you can hate the people who make them. < 1325630291 476265 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Homestuck is a new diet and children's cartoon. < 1325630296 58636 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It kills bears for cash. < 1325630300 168093 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :F- don't buy. < 1325630336 413805 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Back me up on this. < 1325630349 366429 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :These are true facts. < 1325630358 593453 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't get it. < 1325630369 152001 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this like a game where you can only press one button to go forward? < 1325630375 183387 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1325630398 616281 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Before Phantom_Hoover or someone jumps in, the actual games are just really complicated single buttons.) < 1325630399 608701 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why would you have two buttons you can press to go forward? < 1325630403 456579 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would just be stupid. < 1325630492 180766 :cheater!~cheater@dslb-084-057-014-213.pools.arcor-ip.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325630535 660348 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't get it. < 1325630603 455755 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: It makes sense if you eat bears. < 1325630705 122128 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325630728 958513 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: So that you can fast or slow forward, I suppose. < 1325630729 670328 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. < 1325630739 929531 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, here, watch http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=004748 < 1325630744 109231 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :?messages < 1325630744 796358 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan said 9h 36m 38s ago: i think your number may be larger than Skewes's number but smaller than Moser's number, as afaict all your functions are still primitive recursive, so cannot get up to < 1325630744 958100 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the approx. ackermann level. < 1325630745 454518 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should make sense after that. < 1325630766 690735 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But no audio. < 1325630786 256009 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should still make sense without audio. < 1325630798 835461 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: But what about the voice acting lovingly done by 3-year-olds? < 1325630805 376395 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Don't believe the bears. < 1325630812 864141 :DCliche!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1325630815 125307 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not terribly vital to the plot, fortunately. < 1325630852 189599 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what they tell you. Then you're buying speakers and dealing drugs on the street. In the "ghetto" "hood". < 1325630856 542754 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Ghood". < 1325631127 202300 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf < 1325631128 193109 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :are < 1325631130 951778 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you still there < 1325631365 615499 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: [] < 1325631379 468546 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it make sense now? < 1325631386 896768 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't really watch it. < 1325631397 982991 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1325631401 977659 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Honestly, it's not much to ask. < 1325631441 538788 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1325631474 171574 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Honestly, it is. < 1325631492 352673 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you would be SO ENLIGHTENED :( < 1325631720 649476 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> show{-lol-}3 < 1325631721 640544 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "3" < 1325631784 175043 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lot of programming language tutorials tend to say something like "comments are ignored" < 1325631822 9767 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it would be more accurate to say something like "comments can be thought of as a single space" < 1325631832 541669 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (show)3 < 1325631833 600478 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "3" < 1325631838 153712 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Comments aren't whitespace, they just separate tokens. < 1325631842 385280 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Except in C, where they actually are whitespace.0 < 1325631851 150334 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no comments are defined as whitespace in the Haskell Report < 1325631877 659500 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION gets out his language lawyer SPECTACLES. < 1325631934 572472 :iconmaster!~iconmaste@cpe-74-79-18-174.twcny.res.rr.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1325631993 26842 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :whitespace -> whitestuff {whitestuff} < 1325631994 455748 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :whitestuff -> whitechar | comment | ncomment < 1325632002 607701 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1325632043 298634 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Racist. < 1325632155 665034 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :nearly all programming languages are racist. when did _you_ last see a pl which allowed blackspace? < 1325632173 55349 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, african-americanspace < 1325632178 857171 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: That's why I invert the colours in my terminal. < 1325632191 455866 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :from what I can tell, it technically has to do with how the syntax of function application is not defined as whitespace. < 1325632219 454969 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1325632246 715619 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: you're babbling again < 1325632285 685859 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :function application is just an adjacency of two of a particular set of tokens. < 1325632348 722035 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if function application were literally defined as whitespace, then (f)x would not be valid. < 1325632366 307780 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you define something as whitespace? < 1325632379 598556 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :by specifying what whitespace is, and then specifying that this thing involves whitespace. < 1325632382 653358 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: more precisely, it's about separation of lexical analysis and parsing < 1325632389 850862 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes < 1325632407 910350 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :where whitespace is thrown away before the latter < 1325632536 719462 :iconmaster!~iconmaste@cpe-74-79-18-174.twcny.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1325632685 688798 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :octal-> octit{octit} < 1325632701 920304 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325632707 880783 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: bye < 1325632718 472655 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm i was going to say it's octet, but that's something else < 1325632723 301819 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1325632747 275966 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :an octit is three bits, anyway < 1325632750 288564 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: an octet is base-256 :P < 1325632766 550711 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it's the breasts of cephalopod mollusks obviously. < 1325632774 241388 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably a bintet is base-4 < 1325632778 995761 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :...right. < 1325632783 516811 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so a base-8 digit is a tritet < 1325632787 880128 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :base-(2^3) < 1325632814 748810 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*bitet methinks < 1325632834 41548 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: actually i think octet is the same as the musical term, so it would be duet and trio < 1325632842 550170 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1325632846 885566 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's awesome < 1325632869 416745 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :duet, trio, quartet, quintet, sextet, septet, octet, nonet and dectet < 1325632875 210309 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or possibly duo? those have slightly different meanings < 1325632887 314431 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that last one is base-1024. perhaps not very useful < 1325632890 662822 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or am i confusing with norwegian again < 1325632892 395065 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well ^ is a quote from wp < 1325632894 871860 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so duet methinks < 1325632900 329462 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1325632901 598821 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :duo is more informal i think < 1325632911 600945 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :duet ofc can refer to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duet as well < 1325633028 504570 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh heh it seems i looked at that page at _precisely_ the moment wikipedia logged me out < 1325633052 416829 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :gave some strange layout error < 1325633101 418788 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait no < 1325633142 791142 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> deriv (\x -> cos x) (x :: Expr) < 1325633143 904882 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1 * negate (sin x) < 1325633169 764821 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i got confused by being brought to wiktionary when clicking duo < 1325633187 573394 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1325633194 872710 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :check this 3d fractal out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYsbFreUMkg&feature=g-all-lik&context=G27426daFAAAAAAAALAA < 1325633439 904276 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude Data.Number.Dif SimpleReflect> deriv cos (x :: Expr) < 1325633440 63564 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 * negate a < 1325633441 559564 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh.... < 1325633442 511189 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1325633512 698127 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: what < 1325633519 435126 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know. < 1325633583 796008 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only thing I can think of is maybe I broke something when I installed the latest version of GHC from source? < 1325633590 18853 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but so far everything has been fine. < 1325633606 538541 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just reinstall numbers and it's still producing the same output. < 1325633613 911153 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> deriv cos (x :: Expr) < 1325633614 901933 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1 * negate (sin x) < 1325633660 470549 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :By any chance did you define x = asin a? :-) < 1325633667 287767 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, no. < 1325633694 309262 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> deriv cos (asin a :: Expr) < 1325633695 418283 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1 * negate (sin (asin a)) < 1325633695 734616 :iconmaster!~iconmaste@cpe-74-79-18-174.twcny.res.rr.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1325633715 182783 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude SimpleReflect> x < 1325633715 341286 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :x < 1325633715 498379 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude SimpleReflect> y < 1325633715 498581 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :y < 1325633715 498706 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude SimpleReflect> cos x < 1325633717 648433 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :cos x < 1325633720 172143 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc < 1325633735 725866 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so something is weird with Data.Number.Dif < 1325633765 404928 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: did it use to work before? < 1325633772 600662 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1325633772 920055 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1325633788 644776 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's been a while since I've installed the new GHC < 1325633790 939127 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the dif thing hasn't been updated since 2009. < 1325633795 814720 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, no. < 1325633798 111231 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not that < 1325633808 427579 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that's not quite what I meant. < 1325633830 431407 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you implying it's a ghc bug < 1325633834 36954 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1325633848 29332 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I as implying that the error has something vaguely to do with that module < 1325633850 406532 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not SimpleReflect < 1325633852 466810 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the two modules being used. < 1325633864 273637 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that they suddenly uploaded a new version and it broke. < 1325633879 25284 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: so what happens if you do map (deriv cos) [0..] < 1325633890 28535 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, *sin < 1325633894 345468 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :er no < 1325633896 780220 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :**cos < 1325633912 332231 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get a lot of numbers in (-1,1) < 1325633920 655941 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no < 1325633922 716822 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that. < 1325633925 968842 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get a lot of numbers. :) < 1325633938 236701 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map (deriv cos) [0..] < 1325633939 345904 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [-0.0,-0.8414709848078965,-0.9092974268256817,-0.1411200080598672,0.7568024... < 1325633944 336003 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually yes < 1325633946 118356 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get a lot of numbers in (-1,1) < 1325633956 627935 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: but are they the same as abovE? < 1325633958 368954 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*e < 1325633972 962453 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1325633987 926763 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok so it works for Double, but not simplereflect? < 1325634002 975387 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it _is_ something to do with simplereflect as well < 1325634033 807556 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude SimpleReflect Data.Number.Dif> deriv cos (0 :: Expr) < 1325634034 599962 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 * negate a < 1325634044 759583 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :18:39 < oerjan> ok so it works for Double, but not simplereflect? < 1325634048 722740 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe that is an accurate statement < 1325634093 715903 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably it breaks because Expr does not provide a genuine group/ring < 1325634122 538056 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : cos = lift (cycle [cos, negate . sin, negate . cos, sin]) < 1325634131 934884 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lift :: (Num a) => [a -> a] -> Dif a -> Dif a < 1325634132 93352 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lift (f : _) (C x) = C (f x) < 1325634132 285001 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lift (f : f') p@(D x x') = D (f x) (x' * lift f' p) < 1325634132 285112 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lift _ _ = error "lift" < 1325634145 719338 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :see http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/numbers/2009.8.9/doc/html/src/Data-Number-Dif.html < 1325634226 888933 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude SimpleReflect Data.Number.Dif> negate b < 1325634227 681689 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :negate a < 1325634229 307547 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :found it < 1325634254 601561 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude SimpleReflect Data.Number.Dif> negate (var "the queen of france") < 1325634254 795678 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :negate a < 1325634265 332002 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> negate x < 1325634266 455042 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : negate x < 1325634305 689284 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 0 - x < 1325634306 681639 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 0 - x < 1325634314 616436 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries to reinstall simplereflect < 1325634336 389053 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : negate = withReduce $ fun "negate" `iOp` negate `dOp` negate < 1325634346 130782 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks ok to me < 1325634356 401296 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: where is your simplereflect from? < 1325634359 414266 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a quote from the show package < 1325634367 261992 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do I figure that out... < 1325634374 584871 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont know, you installed it < 1325634378 112148 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a feeling when I reinstall it, it will be fixed. < 1325634421 807914 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t iOp < 1325634422 918892 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `iOp' < 1325634626 351829 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no that didn't fix it < 1325634630 198604 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :here's some relevant information: < 1325634631 624525 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/bQQf < 1325634643 484527 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well < 1325634647 57540 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :~who knows~ < 1325634672 188208 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1325634674 605691 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :adam@maria:~$ ghci --version < 1325634674 763896 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Glorious Glasgow Haskell Compilation System, version 7.2.2 < 1325634680 577846 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that line was missing < 1325634681 846707 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :from my paste < 1325634804 569365 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION → sleep < 1325634806 154185 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1325634959 62007 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t intExpr < 1325634960 12651 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `intExpr' < 1325635003 776740 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone with GHC 7.2 want to see if they can reproduce? < 1325635075 731191 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: what do you get from negate (undefined :: Expr) ? < 1325635112 605157 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :negate a < 1325635116 843105 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's basically constant for anything < 1325635161 160622 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what are some things I should have done before compiling and installing GHC? < 1325635168 24872 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I basically just removed ghc via apt-get < 1325635183 644054 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: which version of simplereflect was installed? < 1325635221 383099 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait it's show? < 1325635237 380453 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I installed both show and simple-reflect but it seems to be using show. < 1325635249 271879 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure that it matters < 1325635258 643176 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but even after installing show it installed simple-reflect when I told it to < 1325635285 917757 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Configuring show-0.4.1.2... < 1325635413 313379 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a feeling it has something to do with a misconfigured system. < 1325635420 804346 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have both GHC 6 and 7 on this computer. < 1325635428 318053 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: what does Prelude.negate x give? < 1325635448 491460 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :same thing. < 1325635464 356382 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: what are some things I should have done before compiling and installing GHC? < 1325635467 768149 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :removing everything < 1325635468 242452 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: iirc they are not supposed to mix packages for different ghc versions < 1325635476 647740 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: define "everything" < 1325635476 806688 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1325635477 281935 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1325635479 542447 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not a misconfiguration < 1325635483 773558 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the library is just fucked up < 1325635491 561394 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :come on, ghc bugs don't manifest as subtle wrongness where "a" is used for no reason < 1325635504 812092 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: -shrug- < 1325635510 138467 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so does it work on your system. < 1325635517 286675 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :with your snazzy GHC 7 < 1325635531 589667 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and perfectly configuredness etc < 1325635545 978035 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : negate = withReduce $ fun "negate" `iOp` negate `dOp` negate < 1325635546 137490 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :iOp :: (Expr -> Expr) -> (Integer -> Integer) -> Expr -> Expr < 1325635546 293876 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :iOp rr ff aa = (rr a ) { intExpr = ff <$> intExpr aa } < 1325635546 294080 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dOp :: (Expr -> Expr) -> (Double -> Double) -> Expr -> Expr < 1325635546 294192 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dOp rr ff aa = (rr aa ) { doubleExpr = ff <$> doubleExpr aa } < 1325635564 99962 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_o < 1325635564 933690 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :instance (Show a, FromExpr b) => FromExpr (a -> b) where < 1325635565 89767 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : fromExpr ff aa = fromExpr $ op L 10 " " ff (lift aa) < 1325635577 319897 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cba to figure out the bug < 1325635590 937575 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that rr a should have been rr aa, no? :D < 1325635608 416491 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm on the source I looked at it was a not aa < 1325635627 29265 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: aha < 1325635627 663573 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1325635628 337825 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: see the second iOp line < 1325635629 942399 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :iOp r f a = (r a ) { intExpr = f <$> intExpr a } < 1325635630 105667 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a is the variable "a" < 1325635632 921077 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :on hackage < 1325635638 227231 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/show/0.4.1.2/doc/html/src/SimpleReflect.html < 1325635643 260929 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't care what source you're looking at, it's the wrong one < 1325635649 958644 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm < 1325635654 557983 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Debug.SimpleReflect.Expr < 1325635666 471626 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not the show package < 1325635670 475753 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would have spotted it much earlier if I were looking at the right source. :P < 1325635671 425480 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is what lambdabot uses < 1325635676 857823 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :otoh it might be newer/less buggy < 1325635684 125130 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/simple-reflect/0.2/doc/html/src/Debug-SimpleReflect-Expr.html#Expr < 1325635694 525280 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1325635695 412224 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/numbers/2009.8.9/doc/html/Data-Number-Symbolic.html < 1325635696 681829 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :same package as Dif < 1325635698 940985 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably works better :P < 1325635702 800396 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t Data.Number.Symbolic.var < 1325635703 632859 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. String -> Sym a < 1325635705 796618 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1325635726 16315 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: um you were clearly using show-0.4.1.2 in what you pasted < 1325635733 451086 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :not simple-reflect < 1325635768 725187 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is well-known for his attention to detail. < 1325635786 468293 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't say < 1325635803 841316 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, technically, yes. I ACTION'd it < 1325635813 745179 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::> < 1325635842 742474 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION compiles mueval yet again. < 1325635880 111414 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1325635921 477070 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1325635934 293257 :NihilistDandy!~NihilistD@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325635937 345393 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you never explained why I shouldn't move mueval into /usr/bin < 1325635947 98819 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe you did and I forgot < 1325635967 6139 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :To make include file by search path, I have made the <|> for IO and the choice for any Alternative and then make as follows: < 1325635976 450884 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :loadInputFile = parseInputFile >=> either ((>> exitFailure) . hPutStrLn stderr . show ) (fmap join . sequence . fmap loadIncludeFiles); < 1325635986 433259 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :parseInputFile n = theSearchPath >>= (<|> fileErr n) . choice . fmap (parseFromFile (mmlParser <* eof) . ( n)); < 1325635995 183005 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :loadIncludeFiles (Include x) = loadInputFile x; loadIncludeFiles x = return [x]; < 1325636055 232948 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this the proper way or is there better ways? < 1325636090 850767 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: also what's the difference between mueval and mueval-core? < 1325636121 864664 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hm in (f x), what precedence is f at < 1325636131 738654 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: i don't know < 1325636153 790775 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: 11 or so... < 1325636177 169083 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't recall seeing the Report mention a precedence for function application. < 1325636187 497484 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc showsPrec uses 11 for the level above operators? < 1325636213 213406 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the haskell report doesn't assign any numbers to non-operator syntax afair < 1325636280 966886 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh nice Symbolic does reductions < 1325636287 843202 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :like actual reductions < 1325636298 477255 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :deriving cos yields -sin x < 1325636313 856076 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, the let, case and \ expressions don't fit into simple precedence < 1325636375 776944 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are high from the left, but cannot be put right after application, and are greedy/low to the right < 1325636579 37460 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: simplereflect does too, they're just manual < 1325636582 760290 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to ask for them < 1325636608 532307 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1325636621 817460 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, Jesus, Vi Hart is now affiliated with Khan Academy. < 1325636653 864305 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell Sgeo You are no longer allowed to use any Khan Academy resources. Thank you for your coöperation. < 1325636654 206643 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1325636667 521902 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's wrong with Vi Hart? < 1325636668 155347 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. < 1325636679 390719 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages < 1325636679 555755 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan said 8d 11h 14m 17s ago: well i have a hunch that you need a bit of self-esteem more than you need intelligence. < 1325636679 873375 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover said 26s ago: You are no longer allowed to use any Khan Academy resources. Thank you for your coöperation. < 1325636722 194405 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, tau advocate, not to mention that I strongly suspect that she's what SMBC terms a math enthusiast, i.e. someone more concerned with the trappings of maths than the actual substance. < 1325636745 539652 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot: i don't like your reverse amnesia < 1325636777 595338 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't watched her videos in a while, but ISTR them having a large element of "look at this cool thing maths is so beautiful!" without actually explaining the underlying maths. < 1325636817 818786 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let derivs f x = takeWhile (/=0) . map val . iterate df . f $ dVar x in derivs (^3) (Data.Number.Symbolic.var "x") < 1325636819 443026 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [x*x*x,(x+x)*x+x*x,2*x+x+x+x+x,6] < 1325636825 187664 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :.....6? < 1325636862 424815 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, 6 < 1325636864 645913 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let derivs f x = takeWhile (/=0) . map val . iterate df . f $ dVar x in derivs (^3) (Data.Number.Symbolic.con "x") < 1325636865 629059 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (GHC.Num.Num [GHC.Types.Char]) < 1325636865 785350 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use of `de... < 1325636876 216775 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let derivs f x = takeWhile (/=0) . map val . iterate df . f $ dVar x in derivs (^3) (Data.Number.Symbolic.con 5) < 1325636877 800127 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [125,75,30,6] < 1325636884 62991 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, okay. < 1325636889 777087 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1325636895 189896 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :6 is certainly the correct answer in [x*x*x,(x+x)*x+x*x,2*x+x+x+x+x,6] < 1325636905 648077 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I don't know why they didn't simplify the other results more < 1325636952 57060 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hm what precedence is \ at < 1325636956 386501 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 2 + \e -> e < 1325636957 338877 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : *Exception: show: No overloading for function < 1325636969 226935 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i just told you above < 1325636977 116341 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ah < 1325636984 592687 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ok what's a _conservative_ precedence to assign \ :P < 1325637000 431113 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :11 from the left, -1 from the right? < 1325637033 849659 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: *single precedence < 1325637041 962875 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :conservative as in, always valid but sometimes produces needless parens < 1325637050 429049 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(yes -inf would count :P) < 1325637066 728552 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. -inf then < 1325637067 205183 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src shows < 1325637067 680368 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source not found. You untyped fool! < 1325637069 582555 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src show < 1325637070 57768 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :show x = shows x "" < 1325637077 431423 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: bah fine < 1325637133 630940 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hm what precedence is e at in (\_ -> e) < 1325637156 979814 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :...it's an arbitrary expression < 1325637173 656420 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so also -inf, i guess < 1325637188 57779 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or hm < 1325637196 664747 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ok what precedence would you showsPrec it at if you had to showsPrec an e in that position :P < 1325637203 996633 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess (-1) would work < 1325637207 958072 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :except, no < 1325637210 175685 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you want /no/ parens < 1325637213 385462 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not /always/ parens < 1325637215 310404 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's actually +inf < 1325637223 358679 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... 11 < 1325637232 832369 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: erm not really < 1325637245 153148 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :er wait no < 1325637247 252593 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ok it's +inf < 1325637275 189018 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/math/comments/o13r9/profile_of_eric_lander_mathematician_turned/ < 1325637288 261032 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Profile of a mathematician turned biologist.... turned killer < 1325637293 289691 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no, that way if e contains any operators it will be parenthesized < 1325637307 337319 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh right it's > not < < 1325637311 696267 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ok so -1 then < 1325637353 990419 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1325637397 745748 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I was hoping it'd be actually that. < 1325637422 201784 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does the prospect of biomathematical murder entice you? < 1325637428 347766 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1325637431 798574 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: What's a synonym of inspectable. < 1325637449 359332 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lookable. < 1325637461 672734 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I hate you. < 1325637506 760926 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(You cannot be a biomathematical murderer because you are a) a programmer and hence incapable of science and maths and b) an English pansy and hence incapable of killing anything.) < 1325637619 232531 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: scrutinable < 1325637623 74114 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION → sleep < 1325637627 236001 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1325637692 658351 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: auditable < 1325637695 393260 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :examinable < 1325637717 781781 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :investigable < 1325637829 460006 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION enjoys how particularly easy it is to define a recursive dual number for automatic differentiation. < 1325637841 136374 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that you can continue taking derivatives of derivatives. < 1325637860 924851 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or compute values from differentiated numbers and differentiate that. < 1325638032 379497 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hackage.haskell.org/package/ad does all that < 1325638170 322386 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thinks it would be swell if Symbolic transformed x*x into x^2 and x*x^e to x^(e+1) < 1325638192 850880 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also x+x to 2*x, and x + C*x to (C+1)*x < 1325638220 886147 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps I could convince them to let me patch it or something? < 1325638306 489064 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I'd be more interested in a more generalized way to redefine display/reduction behavior. < 1325638454 378154 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itt: cas < 1325638552 349658 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not quite, no. < 1325638572 427750 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless a CAS can be embedded in Haskell's numeric typeclasses. < 1325638576 668635 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :then yes, sure. < 1325638638 380392 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm mostly interested in a few simple reductions. < 1325638679 299370 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not, say, sovling equations and performing complex algebra. < 1325638769 712273 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1325638775 540150 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's something called DoCon but it... apparently has no documentation < 1325638938 765020 :iconmaster!~iconmaste@cpe-74-79-18-174.twcny.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1325638950 549632 :iconmaster!~iconmaste@cpe-74-79-18-174.twcny.res.rr.com QUIT :Client Quit < 1325639049 961394 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell iconmaster hi, your nick makes me think of ReBoot. < 1325639050 437140 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1325639136 649384 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be interesting to analyze the complexity of language implementations. < 1325639187 275605 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example, why is Perl so slow? is it all constant factors is it non-constant stuff going on under the hood? < 1325639200 925841 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/factors/factors or is it/ < 1325639286 428122 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would think it's mostly constant factors or linear factors. < 1325639332 858995 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable interpolation would be linear (not counting stuff like @{[...]} which is basically an eval) < 1325639587 198189 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: did you know: the asker of the highest-voted question of all time on SO only has 263 rep < 1325639632 475968 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is hilarious to me < 1325639634 455570 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably because < 1325639637 941399 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have gone completely off the deep end < 1325639648 515364 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1325639666 769646 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're like me when I was playing WoW. < 1325639732 892291 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: which question? < 1325639768 80354 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"how do I shot web?" < 1325639788 507520 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :not "how is babby formed?" then? < 1325639914 924209 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/194812/list-of-freely-available-programming-books < 1325639926 708032 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it got converted to community wiki before they could reap the massive rep spoils :P < 1325639958 598541 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :slightly above an hour after being posted, even < 1325641014 709607 :derdon!~derdon@p5DE89A12.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1325641062 887485 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I am a bug" is the worst thing I've ever read. < 1325641443 526243 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1325641543 840342 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1325642564 536157 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-216-214.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Worse than "I am Error"? < 1325644290 519320 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-19-212.dhcp.embarqhsd.net NICK :MSleep < 1325644865 248759 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-216-214.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1325644867 97086 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-194-114.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325645755 903000 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1325646541 700333 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325647109 5676 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-152-218.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325647278 823617 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-194-114.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1325647778 323833 :cheater!~cheater@dslb-084-057-014-213.pools.arcor-ip.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1325648715 642240 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that list is pretty cool < 1325648866 966908 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I found some pinball game for Texas Instruments calculator, but you cannot choose which direction to nudge the table (it always does in a random direction when you push that button), and you have to wait ten seconds before nudging again otherwise you are accused of cheating. < 1325648967 620437 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Due to these rules, it isn't a very good game. < 1325649024 740298 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and on the strength of this accusation you are escorted from the premises bringing an early end to the game of pinball < 1325649150 220661 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most computer pinball game you can at least select which direction to nudge the table! And does not have such a severe penalty (it isn't cheating to nudge the table, anyways). (Flipperless computer pinball games usually have no penalty for nudging the table, however.) < 1325649494 649779 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: real pinball tables penalise you for nudging the table < 1325649506 486342 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes with a warning, but if you do it repeatedly, or hard enough, they lock both flippers and you automatically lose the ball < 1325649509 894313 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes they do; but only if you do it too hard or too much. < 1325650457 420559 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have the best pinball game < 1325650466 686882 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is a dos game < 1325650482 825160 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't remember what it's called but it is best < 1325650569 159955 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have Visual Pinball, it has some flipperless games JiggleBox is best one. < 1325650643 588381 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i cant play it anymore < 1325650651 191060 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :because i dont have a windows box < 1325650665 261924 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i find it, i'll give it to you < 1325650694 713493 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Visual Pinball doesn't work on Wine either. It is only for Windows. But there can be make better one for many operating system and with open source, possibly. < 1325650738 910921 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i vote yes < 1325650750 394030 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you have all these ideas and you never make them :/ < 1325650754 784688 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think this is a yes and no question < 1325651071 247040 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this pinball project which is under strict deadlines will require a new programming language like C and Haskell, but markedly superior < 1325651171 140881 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like C and Haskell? < 1325651172 644797 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :simultaneously? < 1325651205 449224 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm.. it just has to be better than them < 1325651295 835030 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's hard to envisage a language that's better than C at everything and also better than Haskell at everything < 1325651302 469979 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although if it existed, I'd probably use it < 1325651413 131403 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-152-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's hard to envisage a language that's better than C at *everything* that's not a C-family language with stupid decisions omitted. < 1325651788 730703 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its necessary to make the pinball game < 1325651905 461840 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :make it < 1325651958 335190 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :give me a lang that's better than C, Haskell, and Perl in every respect, and I'll write scapegoat in it < 1325651982 570563 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not saying it has to be done either < 1325652005 514892 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-152-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Wouldn't it be enough to be better than C and Haskell in every respect? *zing* < 1325652020 499959 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :neither's really good for one-off text processing < 1325652029 341158 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: @ < 1325652036 404342 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-152-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, and Perl is? < 1325652039 889477 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't yet exist < 1325652041 157593 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-152-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1325652044 18606 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: surprisingly, yes < 1325652045 758785 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: neither does scapegoat < 1325652055 452779 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-152-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(yes, yes, I know, that's the *one* thing Perl actually does well.) < 1325652060 125491 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But my general idea, is that it has some kind of Forth-like virtual machine, which can be programmed in Forth but also in C or Haskell or other programming languages, but there are two separate programs: the one that sets the physical table parameters, and one which emulates the CPU of the pinball. < 1325652063 939638 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: give him @ and he'll give you scapegoat < 1325652068 849714 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :like he said < 1325652072 408831 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-152-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It *is* awk on steroids, after all. < 1325652077 915903 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what vcs will i develop @ with? < 1325652091 503711 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And unlike Visual Pinball and whatever, you must use physical parameters so the CPU emulation program cannot do anything that it cannot do physically, even if done by computer physics. < 1325652094 978715 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-152-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see we have a cyclic dependency here. < 1325652096 87388 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: we need some mutual productive recursion so we can have @ and scapegoat be created codependently so they can be developed with each other < 1325652098 848994 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: something that sg imports well < 1325652106 821669 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-152-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to solve this in the standard elliott way. < 1325652108 728256 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: give me a bit of scapegoat and i'll give you a bit of @ < 1325652116 573206 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-152-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You will develop @ with @ as the VCS. < 1325652135 965236 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hmm… I'm guessing sg will at least mostly be written in ASCII, so the first bit is probably going to be 0 < 1325652139 584896 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: @ as the solution to every problem, offloading work to others... yep, checks out < 1325652141 801949 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the second, harder to say < 1325652157 543841 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I need 32 bits to get started < 1325652165 227616 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in return i'll produce 64 bits of @ < 1325652173 463010 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Text processing can be one thing Perl does well; but AWK can also do text processing it is designed for that purpose. < 1325652176 293074 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-152-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: "Scap" < 1325652199 319513 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: are we just both going to come up with increasingly long header comments? :P < 1325652204 501220 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-152-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Yup. And Perl is AWK with more stuff. < 1325652211 12411 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I can't even do that without knowing what language to write sg in < 1325652214 6440 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no way, @ isn't textual < 1325652218 993294 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: just gimme the start of the README or something < 1325652220 577827 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or LICENSE < 1325652220 894184 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously, I probably would write it if I could think of an appropriate language < 1325652226 200018 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-152-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in spirit, if not in a more strict sense) < 1325652233 574844 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: surely, @'s /comments/ can contain textual data, though? < 1325652236 809871 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesnt have to be the first 32 bits does it? < 1325652247 279271 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :do the bits have to be consecutive? < 1325652248 708545 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you just need to start with the bits that mean "comment", then the content of the comment < 1325652254 313903 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm giving you the bit format of it, certainly it's not going to start with a packed UTF-8 string < 1325652276 703732 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: anyway, I'd be trying to implement sg more actively if I remembered what the most recent model was < 1325652292 885642 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yes, Perl does have things like AWK < 1325652298 503534 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as I said, I'd draw a picture of it if I were any good at drawing < 1325652300 313757 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :So Perl can be used for text processing too < 1325652321 54590 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: just use LaTeX or something, there's diagram packages < 1325652330 12376 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-152-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which, if it's designed for anything, that's what it's designed for. < 1325652331 98304 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'd have to learn them < 1325652383 536919 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ah, you're trying to do something successfully without learning! < 1325652387 903304 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :To draw pictures, you can also use ImageMagick, GIMP, Microsoft Paint, METAFONT, SVG, ... depend what you make. I think there is some GNU diagram program to make diagrams, or something like that < 1325652388 220348 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :good luck, nobody has ever managed that. < 1325652398 246791 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no < 1325652406 5571 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying /not/ to do something, to avoid having to learn how < 1325652457 818147 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's reasonable, right? < 1325652466 66338 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I happen to think METAFONT and ImageMagick combined can make draw picture good for many uses. < 1325652501 393682 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION does all his drawing in php < 1325652542 15573 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, PHP does have drawing function too. < 1325652608 461635 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have done job asked by some other people, making program in PHP to draw pie charts. < 1325653540 378705 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, I've been programming for ~8 years. < 1325653746 280468 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, only 8.. < 1325653759 100752 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently programming is about quality not quantity < 1325653862 957578 :MDuck!~fyrc@or-67-238-19-212.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325653872 172330 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: 8 years is a pretty long time to do one thing. < 1325653891 146444 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anything over 8 would be stretching it a bit, anyway; I doubt I would have been very good at programming at 7. < 1325653895 821924 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Not to say I was any good at it at 8.) < 1325653895 978388 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric : it is if you actually do that thing instead of pretending to do it < 1325653970 718513 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-152-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: Please, like you wrote large, significant things when you were 15. :P < 1325653985 681351 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i never created anything signifigant ever :D < 1325653996 811824 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its the art of super procrastination < 1325654067 869096 :MSleep!~fyrc@or-67-238-19-212.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1325654249 616194 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok i get it anyway < 1325654265 900926 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so elliott is referring to programming when he knew how to program < 1325654275 4300 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the screwing around training years < 1325654638 647513 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you learn all the time. When is the point where you "know how to program" and where you don't? I mean, I think it's somewhat gradual transition. Plus, you always learn new things, so you might think in the future that you didn't know how to program now x3 < 1325654665 576893 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1325654708 137767 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the point is ~8 years ago < 1325654751 630564 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Frooxius: i think the concept of when does a child become an adult is related < 1325654862 332321 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah that's not sudden transition either. Though... some remain children in some ways for a long time :D < 1325654880 200403 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Frooxius: for someone like me, the process is about realizing i am not yet a programmer < 1325654887 576352 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :having my ego smacked down < 1325654903 964854 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :by that bastard cryst_eheh_heh < 1325654914 41934 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a chatroom in a distant land < 1325654932 927500 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm nevermind :D < 1325654938 827251 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never really consider myself anything that much, I just keep making stuff as best as I can and that's it. I don't need any label to do what I do. < 1325654986 162788 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plus I constantly think things I do are horrible anyway so... x3 It helps to improve them though < 1325655006 703850 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or throw into garbage and redo from scratch < 1325655153 795313 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see myself as more of the john romero type.. except not as cool as him < 1325655172 333795 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : so elliott is referring to programming when he knew how to program < 1325655172 490213 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : not the screwing around training years < 1325655172 808304 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1325655190 792366 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I programmed when I was 8 but I didn't know how to program when I was 8 :p < 1325655200 825071 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1325655208 713272 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so is it like learning to speak? < 1325655233 337072 :Frooxius_!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz JOIN :#esoteric < 1325655283 845892 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt it. Maybe a foreign language, but I've never learned one. < 1325655290 103339 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The easiest way to find out what it's like would be to do it. < 1325655308 745194 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops.. ^s/speak/read < 1325655344 214702 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION didn't know how to program for maybe like a year? if he understands elliott correctly. < 1325655357 107443 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, hmmm, a few months. < 1325655368 930213 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i screwed around in qbasic 1.0 with the help files at first < 1325655384 639754 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: oh, you think you know how to program! how long ago did you start programming? < 1325655393 402610 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1325655396 900282 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was 15. so, 5 years ago. < 1325655406 594108 :Frooxius_!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz NICK :Frooxius < 1325655409 56245 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: congratulations, you're in your 5th year of not knowing how to program :) < 1325655417 844097 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't know how to program either. < 1325655427 831035 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: when does one learn to program, great sensei. :P < 1325655445 828588 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't. < 1325655451 936046 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no one is programmers? < 1325655461 393982 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what we do? < 1325655468 584975 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, we're programmer < 1325655469 59079 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s < 1325655469 850976 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is shot web? < 1325655479 983700 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this guy i knew, he wanted to teach me stuff... he basically knocked me out of the ring when teaching me to try to actually make 2d games in c for windows < 1325655505 707622 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was like *pow* *pow pow pow* < 1325655510 45322 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1325655513 698432 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :why did you think of it as a competition? < 1325655524 747786 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: because that's the only way he can frame it as losing < 1325655526 171961 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because im an asshole < 1325655542 118567 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: observe him attempting to lose your question ^ < 1325655551 508636 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol elliott < 1325655581 916046 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, i'm making a funny joke < 1325655582 74748 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I certainly don't think I've mastered programming by any means, nor do I have very much experience with good program design. But I feel that the past 5 years count for something. < 1325655647 127624 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :a few weeks in, I remember asking #python what a delimiter was. :P < 1325655659 544558 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it used this word "delimiter" in the split method thing and I didn't know what that meant. < 1325655772 906040 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have written part of a D&D prestige class called "Aberration Saver" that corresponds to the organization called "Aberration Saver"; I also wrote the title of a prestige class "Celestial Saver" and of spells "Circling the Square" and "Confuse Time" and "Confuse Objects" and of feats "Minimize Spell". < 1325655802 801782 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should add one class for calculus or category theory or something like that, too. < 1325655906 593193 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol. < 1325655925 678559 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :motivic cohomology < 1325656124 600756 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should clean my room some day < 1325656142 362761 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: what do you have to do right now? < 1325656144 397924 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not clean it now? < 1325656189 85579 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can wait a little longer.. < 1325656189 718954 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl print int(rand(2)?'clean room":"definitely clean room" < 1325656192 507461 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't find string terminator "'" anywhere before EOF at /tmp/input.2326 line 1. < 1325656198 813817 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl print int(rand(2)?'clean room':"definitely clean room" < 1325656199 514228 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :syntax error at /tmp/input.2368 line 1, at EOF \ Execution of /tmp/input.2368 aborted due to compilation errors. < 1325656215 562547 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl print (int(rand(2)?'clean room':"definitely clean room") < 1325656216 61268 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :syntax error at /tmp/input.2431 line 1, at EOF \ Execution of /tmp/input.2431 aborted due to compilation errors. < 1325656218 159836 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1325656245 634022 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl print int(rand(2)?'clean room':"definitely clean room" < 1325656246 164994 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :syntax error at /tmp/input.2508 line 1, at EOF \ Execution of /tmp/input.2508 aborted due to compilation errors. < 1325656247 517708 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :olwkeojsdfoijiowejr < 1325656263 518402 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1325656267 614175 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl print int(rand(2))?'clean room':"definitely clean room" < 1325656268 248733 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :definitely clean room < 1325656269 50250 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::> < 1325656353 474783 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1325656764 864353 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i seek feedback on this http://pastebin.ca/2098801 < 1325657169 378906 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in contrast with that scheme, an idea i am thinking about is http://pastebin.ca/2098804 < 1325657451 910892 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection timed out < 1325657498 309841 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325657543 263053 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and adding the instructions {"w","a","s","d"} to change the current cell in the io matrix < 1325657560 538528 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(mirrored to http://sprunge.us/GdOR, http://sprunge.us/UNSd) < 1325657577 31146 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1325657582 867068 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you initialise the io matrix < 1325657588 894991 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :BF IO is based on one-dimensional bytestrings < 1325657596 854771 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so how do you turn the input into a matrix? < 1325657679 167735 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm.. by violating everything near and dear about esolangs heheh < 1325657724 49627 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one analogy for what i have dubbed the io matrix is a bitmap < 1325657784 125219 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so all the input and output would act upon a bitmap < 1325657828 679045 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should check out paintfuck < 1325657831 969555 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the same thing but bitmap bf all the same < 1325657848 603069 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i also had the idea of a frame updating operator < 1325657924 928547 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, wwwwaaaassssdddd would theoretically move a cursor of sorts in a box shape in the bitmap, and then an extra operator such as "e" would tell it to update < 1325657995 261464 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so ,w.w.w.w.a.a.a.a.s.s.s.s.d.d.d.d.e!# would theroetically draw a box made of # < 1325658054 344499 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my lack of comprehension of bf's [ and ] operators is probably signifigant at this stage :P < 1325658063 800695 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but doesn't really matter < 1325658178 422048 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm paintfuck seems to embody the idea of wasd as nsew < 1325658270 766740 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : so ,w.w.w.w.a.a.a.a.s.s.s.s.d.d.d.d.e!# would theroetically draw a box made of # < 1325658273 438884 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this isn't a valid brainfuck program < 1325658278 341799 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :! is just a notational convenience for /interpreters/ < 1325658282 236705 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it specifies input < 1325658287 781695 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ya < 1325658290 783369 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to compute the ascii value of ! manually intsead < 1325658294 10770 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i see what you mean here < 1325658303 430921 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :since... my input is my bitmap < 1325658314 813312 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't really have my cake and eat it < 1325658315 11719 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also, most interpreters don't support it -- it originated with the dbfi self-interpreter, which was forced to use such a scheme because it's all bf itself can host) < 1325658399 873844 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1325658448 857870 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++. < 1325658449 16959 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :# < 1325658477 799026 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric : +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++w.w.w.w.a.a.a.a.s.s.s.s.d.d.d.d.e :-D < 1325658519 269548 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess i should focus on paintfuck direction notation < 1325658602 685215 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric : +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++n.n.n.n.e.e.e.e.s.s.s.s.w.w.w.w.q (where q = some kind of.. end of frame/cellular automaton iteration operator) < 1325658650 774700 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I read some idea about a chess variant with an infinite number of rules. But I have different idea, which is a chess variant where the number of kind of pieces is exactly googolplex. You could have a 10x10 board indicating possible jumps, in each cell put a number 0 to 9. For each possible configuration of this board, assign a number 0 to 9. Each possible set of these value is the kind of piece. Its Haskell type would be: ((Ten, Ten) -> Ten) - < 1325658833 296906 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"q" is really intended here along the lines of vsync as if to say, the data is ready < 1325658851 492874 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well not like vsync.. but sort of like it < 1325659069 776530 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Quit: zzo38 < 1325659110 977357 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :another goal i have in mind with such things is to use such a language to control a memory mapped array inside a given program < 1325659173 941605 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the more i think about it the more ridiculous it seems < 1325659600 804682 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so this "memory mapped array" might look like: cell 0 = player1 paddle position, cell 1 = player2 paddle position, cell 3 = player1 points, cell 4 = player2 points, cell 5 = ball x position, cell 6 = ball y position < 1325660002 533110 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : "q" is really intended here along the lines of vsync as if to say, the data is ready < 1325660009 486396 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's called blitting... or flipping the buffer... or w/e < 1325660024 841342 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1325660189 796465 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's really a perverted goal of writing pong in a brainfuck derivative < 1325660207 377926 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or.. not the entire pong, but the logic of it < 1325660336 82849 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have to admit paintfuck is very curious < 1325660470 18878 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: SLEEP, GLORIOUS SLEEP < 1325660863 422528 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i won't truely be a BF programmer until i master the [ and ] < 1325661082 455755 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: hi < 1325661102 464543 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1325661106 622650 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lo < 1325661107 297624 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :l < 1325661166 346593 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: i just descended into < 1325661170 945942 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the furthest depths possible < 1325661176 107176 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :quit it < 1325661178 421214 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :do something productive < 1325661189 858569 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :like me < 1325661194 653571 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :sitting aorund watching SC2 games. < 1325661196 904486 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/41976/question-title-that-doesnt-describe-the-problem < 1325661198 822654 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just read < 1325661199 456365 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this < 1325661201 151828 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION paragon of productivity. < 1325661204 987703 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have hit absolute rock bottom < 1325661208 255492 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because < 1325661209 403120 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1325661211 977806 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's actually really funny < 1325661240 763821 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it's terrible < 1325661251 147078 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's stepped in SO culture. < 1325661262 778006 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so is your face < 1325661265 423374 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :qez < 1325661278 402894 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is qez like qed but cooler. < 1325661341 679523 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1325661427 663541 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :$.butterfly({ aLongList: ofParameters, whichAre: notExplained < 1325661429 416065 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :}); < 1325661488 276034 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: there are so many things in this that are like... < 1325661493 344789 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :self-deprecating. < 1325661500 798918 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :like SO culture is to self-deprecate itself. < 1325661562 85267 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: metastackoverflow is about 65% experienced users complaining about the terrible quality of most of the questions/answers < 1325661572 573466 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fun < 1325661647 611001 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is pollyanna even a user? < 1325661780 798644 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: renamed < 1325661786 280042 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@-references don't get updated when names change < 1325661786 595994 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknown command, try @list < 1325661786 912808 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahh < 1325661789 493285 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :infer from context appropriately :P < 1325661800 25720 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(they really should get rewritten but i guess it's too heuristicy) < 1325661877 886388 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://bicycles.stackexchange.com/ < 1325661879 35179 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yesssss < 1325661882 868956 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :just what I've been looking for. < 1325661914 718822 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently pollyanna is adam davis < 1325661943 122467 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://cstheory.stackexchange.com/questions/9563/all-recursive-algorithms-are-inherently-not-inplace-isnt-it < 1325661947 709845 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool < 1325661958 611689 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This question has an open bounty worth +50 reputation from Alan Turing ending in 7 days." < 1325661960 831209 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't see that every day < 1325661966 806222 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks turing < 1325661973 450302 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously all of those recursive tree algorithms in the STL are not in-place. < 1325662084 117328 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :cstheory stackexchange doesn't get a lot of answers < 1325662088 455756 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: THIS IS YOUR GOLDEN OPPORTUNITY < 1325662093 305411 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :TO BECOME MASTER OF CSTHEORY STACKEXCHANGE < 1325662096 307057 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :THINK OF THE REP < 1325662098 565881 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU COULD BE NUMBER 1 < 1325662161 255962 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Porn Univeristy Of Blow Job" < 1325662175 589675 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :who even searches for that sort of thing? it's unlikely to be worded exactly like that even without the typo < 1325662235 622831 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION vaguely wonders what findthisall.com is actually for, given that it's trying so hard to drive traffic to itself < 1325662263 223326 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: uh, what are you talking about. :P < 1325662270 741789 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: wiki spam < 1325662275 379874 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1325662327 776200 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hey, my degree is from the Porn University of Blow Job < 1325662354 529059 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blow Job is a wonderful little down, and I understand Adam Porn, the university's founder, was a very generous man indeed < 1325662355 992854 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*town < 1325662361 505761 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1325662370 114487 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, findthisall.com is responsible for about half the spam the wiki gets < 1325662382 74494 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what's graue's email? < 1325662398 354784 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the domain's oceanbase.org, you can probably guess the rest < 1325662408 976226 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blow Job is a wonderful little down the way < 1325662431 433478 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, if we even had a spam blacklist, I could just put findthisall.com on it < 1325662433 116657 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but we don't < 1325662474 293311 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :how long has the wikispam been going on? has to be at least two months by now, surely? < 1325662508 851166 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake TOPIC #esoteric :TODO: spam blacklist | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1325662527 233291 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps a bot should be developed which posts wiki edit titles into the channel, and a capacity to delete those wiki edits < 1325662538 192180 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :findthisall.com started on 15th november 2011 < 1325662540 947761 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes let's spam the wiki and the channel at the same time < 1325662542 571933 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :great idea. < 1325662566 735300 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other spambot that we have a lot started rather earlier, but it's harder to block in an automated way < 1325662765 860707 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sends an email off to graue < 1325662775 541140 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suggest we try and trick the spambots into spamming Graue if he doesn't reply :) < 1325662908 991343 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :change the names/ids of every element on every page. < 1325662922 557141 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the bots won't know where to find anything. < 1325662989 228064 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: it doesn't really work like that... < 1325663013 583860 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION decides kallisti needs to learn more about spamming software for reasons :) < 1325663026 765859 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, the bots are breaking the CAPTCHA < 1325663036 979318 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: why does it not work like that. < 1325663046 364845 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :swapping the IDs for captcha answer and edit summary would probably work < 1325663065 296588 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as the bots probably wouldn't notice that they'd swapped round, and they certainly aren't spamming the CAPTCHA answer into every text box on the page < 1325663076 138862 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I rather suspect they might go on element order < 1325663084 185741 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps even rendered size < 1325663086 86448 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, that's possible too < 1325663093 428582 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or they might search for known text around the boxes < 1325663099 224231 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like usage information and field labels < 1325663107 982794 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :site admins really won't want to mess with those, after all < 1325663110 240586 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems a little advanced for a spambot < 1325663125 648765 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :normally they just aim at low-hanging fruit < 1325663133 945966 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Aren't you little short for a spambot." < 1325663141 233 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yeah, Esolang must be reeling in billions for them :P < 1325663149 715939 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I realise they're not specifically targeting Esolang) < 1325663174 642779 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I think you're expecting far too much from spambots. < 1325663176 596206 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, now I'm curious < 1325663177 667091 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe /some/ do that. < 1325663181 548578 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION visits findthisall.com in w3m < 1325663191 495869 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if its purpose is to spread malware, I bet it doesn't spread it via w3m on Linux < 1325663207 110923 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, even if that combination is vulnerable, the chance that anyone would bother to try an exploit for it is basically 0 < 1325663222 648430 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway if it's element order (which is pretty likely as well) then you can just add some hidden elements somewhere < 1325663249 82390 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, it's a list of searches it guesses I might be using, and some results < 1325663252 504102 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although quite a few of them are empty < 1325663254 886141 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hidden elements, which they ignore, since they try to approximate what a user would do. < 1325663255 739200 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what an embarassing homepage < 1325663267 261783 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION searches for INTERCAL < 1325663281 688843 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you sure you're not looking for High Quality Euro Watches? < 1325663300 96023 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, many of the results are just random URLs with irrelevant descriptions and INTERCAL worked into them somewhere < 1325663305 890772 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this seems to be a clearinghouse for spam links < 1325663323 34967 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, it's nothing but sponsored referrals < 1325663335 521422 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i visited it, it's boring < 1325663337 983287 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Check results for INTERCAL on our free comparison site" < 1325663355 33389 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: indeed < 1325663364 111477 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a pointless thing to spam < 1325663383 276207 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I say you tias < 1325663392 593935 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you may be pleasantly surprised at how dumb spambots actually are. < 1325663396 758691 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're relying on people searching for a term, finding findthisall.com, then completely forgetting what they were looking for and clicking on one of its links because they look interesting < 1325663414 273633 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, every distinct website I visit increases the chance that one of them has a w3m exploit < 1325663417 731478 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and by you and I mean the owner of the wiki. < 1325663433 567891 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: oh, you mean change the wiki layout? < 1325663434 678863 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't < 1325663440 351104 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1325663442 682066 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes I figured. < 1325663442 840289 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are several obvious solutions to the current rash of spam < 1325663451 546937 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but graue isn't implementing any of them, or even responding to emails < 1325663464 77554 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, yay, I should hit the last SO privilege level before the 3 ridiculously huge ones today < 1325663478 522275 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You want information about search engine optimization and you would like to have it in a easy to understand format. If this is the case, this article will be perfect for you. We will lay out some of the most important tips and guidelines, in a way that you can quickly digest. The main thing to remember is that you need a solid strategy for which %LINK1% you'll be using, and how you'll use them, but we'll get to that in a moment." < 1325663481 722204 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it goes 5000, 10000, 15000, 20000) < 1325663489 828161 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does the 5000 level do? < 1325663509 620591 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, are you going to hit the top privelege level then delete the entire site? < 1325663510 255685 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :allows me to vote on suggested post edits and approve tag wiki edits < 1325663515 924198 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, that's my master plan < 1325663519 252377 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like EVE Online scammers? < 1325663572 659359 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(10000 gets you moderation privileges like delete votes, handling flags, viewing deleted posts, etc.; 15000 lets you protect questions; 20000 lets you vote to delete answers, delete closed questions, edit tag wikis arbitrarily) < 1325663593 238805 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume there's some secret level above those that lets you delete the site < 1325663597 715279 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd only be logical < 1325663621 844550 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"delete votes"? that sounds abusable < 1325663627 32585 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, the 10k rep privileges are kind of like wikipedia making people admins when they hit a certain edit count < 1325663632 984759 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it let you delete downvotes aimed at you? < 1325663638 140559 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :except not really, since people have to vote and accept your stuff to raise rep :) < 1325663643 534108 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: cast delete votes, that is < 1325663646 400745 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. cast votes to delete questions < 1325663648 619328 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I see < 1325663657 892590 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also cast votes to not delete, I take it? < 1325663673 570099 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think any of the voting systems work that way, they're mostly just 5 people -> action taken < 1325663679 604273 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. it takes 5 close votes to close a question < 1325663683 439848 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I see < 1325663705 654314 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you need a good amount of rep to cast them in the first place < 1325663712 292910 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the chances of a high-quality question being closed like that are low < 1325663738 935986 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess 5 people with the ability to cast delete votes could delete the whole site, one question at a time < 1325663757 308824 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1325663805 580889 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I guess I'm one of the few people in the world with enough technical knowledge to delete Wikipedia's Main Page correctly, if I had admin privileges < 1325663810 901671 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thing would just get undeleted pretty quickly, though < 1325663830 21308 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm amused that the safeguards against deleting it are so much higher than the safeguards against editing it < 1325663838 16054 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: You've mentioned this before, in fact. Are you sure you're not harboring some Main Page deletion fantasies? < 1325663850 753539 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's talked about it at least 3 or 4 times. < 1325663857 128434 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: it's because I've been trying to persuade Wikipedia to move it to Portal:Main for ages < 1325663861 288401 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I gave up after a while < 1325663862 951575 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Department of Wikiland Security may be in touch. < 1325663869 192474 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I suppose I should claim that's the reason I left < 1325663872 702227 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: You can delete Esolang's main page. Nobody will notice if you just do it for a few minutes. < 1325663877 345510 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't keep your urges cooped up inside. < 1325663882 299447 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, there's always a big debate about "can you actually /do/ that?" < 1325663889 489444 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the answer is "yes, if you know how, it's actually quite easy" < 1325663894 992739 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but nobody ever believes me < 1325663923 467774 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: The one thing I must do with my life is to become a producer of creative works of sufficient notability that an article on any major work I create is guaranteed, and then to release such a work and title it Main Page. < 1325663935 92935 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: indeed < 1325663977 580752 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really want to have a universe sandbox so I can see what would happen before I commit to actually going to all that effort to making it happen. < 1325664013 752206 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: how do you know you're not in one at the moment, and simply held back your memories of the outside whilst inside it, in order to make sure you acted plausibly < 1325664031 21661 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: if that is the case, I salute its creator < 1325664033 290869 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :godspeed, me < 1325664050 232398 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's inevitable that I /will/ end up doing all that, because it's specified in the parameters < 1325664054 758399 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I don't have to devote any effort to actually doing it < 1325664069 944814 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably the simplest way this will happen is for me to change my mind and devote effort to it < 1325664076 940808 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Jimbo Wales' editcount is /under 9000/? < 1325664088 990064 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :would you expect it to be high? < 1325664093 284769 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of what he does doesn't require actual edits < 1325664096 714968 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and he isn't even in charge any more < 1325664108 506896 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, he preferred to use a mailing list to wiki talk pages for discusison < 1325664110 240856 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*discussion < 1325664116 331606 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is, I think, a mistake < 1325664123 146117 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, it's been 11 years < 1325664127 264202 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You can aim for the low-hanging fruit and just design an esolang called "Main Page". < 1325664131 999731 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's made under 818 edits per year < 1325664150 375338 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that seems abnormally low for a founder who at least participated /moderately/ actively for a good while < 1325664171 307024 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: do you really think any of us would object to putting a dab on our main page for that? < 1325664181 125945 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd probably just link the trilime to it :P < 1325664233 382996 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's that "I have plans for this file!" mean? < 1325664273 910772 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I uploaded it to put it on my Main Page redesign. < 1325664281 186484 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't hotlink it from the theme files. < 1325664298 495266 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously I had to upload it before anyone actually knew about the redesign, though, to test it :p < 1325664331 868475 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/w/index.php?title=Main_Page&direction=next&oldid=21677 < 1325664343 878630 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how the last few edits before I replaced it were adding more "of the day"s < 1325664348 142796 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it reached critical mass < 1325664398 655372 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: [[User:Fydo851ts563n‎]] < 1325664401 4937 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :So what does the trilime symbolize? < 1325664405 5705 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: nobody knows < 1325664420 116177 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1325664422 176604 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :holy crap < 1325664427 86948 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: fizzie: the trilime is the matrix of solidity < 1325664427 245396 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: deleted < 1325664436 146557 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but, umm, what? < 1325664444 226002 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it predates us hearing about the matrix of solidity < 1325664451 46735 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: exactly! < 1325664457 445089 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you seriously believe the matrix of solidity didn't exist before we heard about it? < 1325664458 252792 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linear time is no boundary for the matrix of solidity? < 1325664459 997890 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're /trapped/ in it < 1325664464 635144 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :further evidence: 1. limes are solid 2. if not the trilime, what else? < 1325664467 845291 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: s/trapped/locked/ < 1325664494 18132 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, I suppose you could argue we're consensually locked < 1325664496 117471 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :deep < 1325664510 293498 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but you're underage! < 1325664520 110629 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: not in the matrix of solidity! < 1325664527 961981 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is the Postfix program at host pendrell.textdrive.com. < 1325664528 119894 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sorry to have to inform you that your message could not < 1325664528 276512 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :be delivered to one or more recipients. It's attached below. < 1325664528 276702 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :For further assistance, please send mail to < 1325664528 276812 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you do so, please include this problem report. You can < 1325664528 436376 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :delete your own text from the attached returned message. < 1325664530 377307 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : The Postfix program < 1325664532 486118 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :: maildir delivery failed: error writing < 1325664534 387293 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : message: Disc quota exceeded < 1325664536 446952 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you lied to me < 1325664570 838707 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, that's the last known email address for Graue < 1325664578 113169 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't get an error about it when I sent there < 1325664582 272083 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my guess is that it /is/ his email address < 1325664584 502370 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but he no longer reads it < 1325664591 145103 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and his disc quota has entirely filled up with mail < 1325664597 291910 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :explaining why I didn't get a bounce on my last email, but you did < 1325664600 978108 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Email of the day: "Uh, we have this exam for this course you're the assistant for tomorrow, do you have any idea who's preparing the questions?" "Er... the lecturer of the course flew to Tokio a week ago, left his laptop at home, and won't be back until the 16th..." < 1325664613 302728 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: searching elsewhere, scott at the same domain seems to be his email address too < 1325664619 438496 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :note that you're not going to get "disc quota exceeded" unless it can identify the user in question < 1325664622 227348 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: are you going to try it? < 1325664625 513307 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: maybe! < 1325664642 474517 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :failing that, I'll find out where he lives and take a crowbar < 1325664674 264205 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sent, let's see if it bounces < 1325664763 932129 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: theory: graue likes spambots < 1325664781 356059 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so how do you explain the ban on
? < 1325664784 670454 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I got nominated to prepare an exam. "Oh well, let's check the previous one for ideas and the TeX template... bash: cd: edu/T-61.5140/exam: Permission denied" < 1325664793 479029 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: he also hates div and span tags < 1325664806 660128 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: :D < 1325664813 351771 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's SPAMbots he likes, not SPANbots. < 1325664820 56614 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ("Tokio".) < 1325664835 17245 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Whoops; went with the Finnish spelling. < 1325664871 486614 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, maybe i should sleep < 1325664877 150246 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i'll ask ais523 whether i should sleep < 1325664888 856872 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I should sleep myself < 1325664891 909545 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I keep getting distracted < 1325664903 39214 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :either that, or I should stay awake until a sensible time to sleep and then sleep < 1325664911 202173 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thing is, I need to be awake at about 7pm < 1325664916 123793 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"drwx--S--- 3 [lecturer's account] edu 7168 2011-11-10 12:20 edu/T-61.5140/exam/" well that's just impolite. < 1325664920 545387 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if I don't go to sleep soon, I won't have time to fit in a good day's sleep < 1325664929 510170 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: setgid? why? < 1325664934 540320 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to a group that doesn't exist? < 1325664943 781272 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would the edu group not exist? < 1325664947 505315 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh? The 'edu' group exists just fine. < 1325664952 459919 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Inherited from the parent, probably. < 1325664968 87727 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Can't you just use a root escalation? < 1325664980 210258 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I read edu as the user, and 7168 as the group < 1325665002 245099 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh; right, I redacted the user. < 1325665010 533829 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :To protect the guilty, and so on. < 1325665049 392382 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh well, the student-run exam archive probably has scanned copies of the old exams anyway. < 1325665072 406247 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Not the 2011 ones, apparently.) < 1325665225 946841 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I wish the students could see this, it'd be so reassuring for them. < 1325665282 65281 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: You should somehow work the channel into one of the questions, e.g. "Alice connects to her favourite IRC network irc.freenode.net and joins #esoteric. Bob sends her an automated welcome message. What is 2 + 2?" < 1325665376 753148 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1325665382 211716 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a re-re-exam anyway; the "main" one was last May, and a repeat opportunity last August; this one is just for the stragglers. < 1325665409 480989 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Three people have signed up for it, though I suppose there could always be a couple extra; signing up is in theory mandatory, in practice not. < 1325665429 131039 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :How much can three people matter? Wait, no, not three people: three students. < 1325665442 538656 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Three smelly, unwashed students. (Disclaimer: they might not smell.) < 1325665452 782214 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: You should just not give them an exam and they'll be so happy. Probably. < 1325665468 859520 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Is this an exam?" (correct answer "no") < 1325665570 515716 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, i just got another upvote < 1325665574 687307 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i _will_ sleep after all < 1325665584 93036 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(cue ais523) < 1325665597 432154 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Why'd the lecturer leave his laptop at home and how do you know this? (I presume it wasn't an accident or you wouldn't know about it, unless he called you or something.) < 1325665658 399044 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The lecturer was Deewiant all along. < 1325665666 122602 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Is Deewiant still even at that place? Finland is so confusing.) < 1325665687 824674 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I'm at that place for a sufficiently broad value of "that place". < 1325665732 145910 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: University thingy thingy Google Wave. Without the Google part. < 1325665737 458419 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although Finland might merge with Google in the coming years. < 1325665761 831129 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I'm at that university. < 1325665780 683519 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haven't you been there, like, ten years now? FINLAND. < 1325665788 65439 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: He emailed me on 28th (of December) that "I'll be leaving for Tokyo tomorrow, back on Jan 16th, not going to take a computer with me, could you kindly update next year's details on the course's website?" Had (apparently; we haven't managed to contact him) completely forgotten about any exam. < 1325665806 142112 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I guess it's borderline possible he'd have a ready exam in his office? Though probably not very likely. < 1325665821 954995 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Worth a shot I guess. < 1325665826 831892 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Like four, I think. < 1325665832 59212 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who the hell doesn't take a computer with them? < 1325665841 168526 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's like "I'm not taking clothes, or oxygen." < 1325665842 117899 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It's called a va-cay-shun. < 1325665852 902321 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Naked space vacuum vacation. < 1325665859 19469 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The term is "holiday", foreigner.) < 1325665867 520141 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, i just got another update! < 1325665869 411515 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Holy day. < 1325665875 666894 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you should sleep, i don't need you to be awake to entertain me since i'm sleeping < 1325665879 826281 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*upvote < 1325665961 281998 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Anyway, he's not answering his phone either, so I think it's the "unplugged" sort of a holiday. (I mean, don't people usually go to Tokyo to get rid of the hussle and bustle of civilization?) < 1325665983 155688 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hussel-bussel. Anyway. < 1325666006 164087 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tokyo, the last uncharted wilderness. And so on. < 1325666041 892709 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Can you even get an Internet connection there? Maybe with a satellite phone...) < 1325666066 438904 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a hard time believing it's possible to cross the street without a smartphone in Tokyo. < 1325666155 882217 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think ais523 fell asleep. < 1325666175 195267 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: On an unrelated note, your ICS user web page is old enough that it's full of dead links. < 1325666199 62232 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I'm still awake < 1325666201 45563 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't take computer to vacation. < 1325666211 964226 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I usually do take books, pencil, paper. < 1325666237 921256 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't take telephone to vacation either. < 1325666255 919747 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Are you suggesting he adopt the FASCIST AALTO TEMPLATE? (I assume they have a template. It is possible they have a template. A template... might exist?) < 1325666271 954718 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Who the fuck calls a university Wave?!) < 1325666274 707244 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: He's using an out-of-date template. < 1325666298 995335 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Yes, it's like the Confederate flag. < 1325666307 872677 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: You just can't handle: FREEDOM. < 1325666343 458229 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not saying he should use the new template, making up his own stuff is fine by me too. < 1325666424 758797 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: You should tile whatever logo you guys used before Aalto as the background. < 1325666540 482183 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe he went to Tokyo to DRIFT RACE. I've understood that's kind of what they do there. < 1325666566 514929 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :They have cars in Finland? < 1325666583 417453 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Horse-driven snowmobiles. < 1325666593 235543 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some use polar bears. < 1325666689 46446 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes when the two kinds meet there are... accidents. < 1325666711 747800 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really hope Finland is actually like that. < 1325666744 6307 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: here's a question for you: is efficient /// compilation (to a "standard" language, like C) possible? < 1325666750 420547 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'll be so disappointed when your government finally exiles you here. < 1325666768 418267 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hmm < 1325666774 899813 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't think of an obvious way, but I'm not convinced it's impossible < 1325666821 596364 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's self-modifying, but at least code only modifies code /after/ it < 1325666831 258081 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g., a replacement never does anything to /itself/ < 1325666967 420632 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell oerjan You should fix the Perl /// interpreter (per http://esolangs.org/wiki/Talk:Slashes) :P < 1325666967 615483 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1325667028 109127 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I try to make (Functor (forall x y. f x y)) to be a constraint but it doesn't seems to work < 1325667077 810213 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.google.com/search?q="matrix+of+solidity" < 1325667091 147009 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It says it is expected kind `*' but `f x y' has kind `* -> *' < 1325667148 142767 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: you can't have instances like that afaik < 1325667159 404015 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's impossible to say the real error without knowing context < 1325667229 831733 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: i like how we are second place < 1325667269 424390 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its actually surprising we aren't first place < 1325667272 324158 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But doesn't it have like the (,) functor and (->) functors have one additional type argument for all type of kind (*) < 1325667290 77550 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm ill try a better search engine < 1325667333 498116 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :duckduckgo drops the ball on this one < 1325667356 4528 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bing drops the ball on this one < 1325667394 943292 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: why the hell is it 9 am? < 1325667409 263629 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :becaues it's almost 9am < 1325667462 440039 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.lifeoflight.com/channellinglibrary/merlin/533.html beloved beloved beloved < 1325667861 690985 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: becaues? < 1325667874 832192 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/whatever/whatever/ < 1325667901 451039 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bleh, we need a quick and easy to type way to say "just fix all the typos in what I've said recently" < 1325667904 349372 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suggest * on a line by itself < 1325667960 497228 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/typed/intended < 1325667961 982904 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sdiojf oe hefu ahfhiwe < 1325667963 278442 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :* < 1325668003 373024 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :bleh, i have to sleep now, or i'll end up sleeping at some even more terrible time < 1325668024 478531 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wake me up before it gets too late, please, thanks < 1325668037 303973 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think its a form of courtesy < 1325668054 694622 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or a form of acknowledging ones typos < 1325668136 329468 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1325668201 484908 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then how can I make constraints and classes that put multiple parameters in? < 1325668335 25305 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, MPTCs? < 1325668344 822087 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume your question is more advanced than that < 1325668355 436321 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes my question is more advanced than that < 1325668446 294400 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1325668809 411064 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :vis a vis my http://sprunge.us/GdOR and http://sprunge.us/UNSd i would say < 1325669001 84108 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :brainfuck and boolfuck use bf tape and io streams < 1325669033 342460 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :smallfuck uses bf tape < 1325669073 414744 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :paintfuck uses bf matrix < 1325669180 309351 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1325669249 728755 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what i had in mind is to use bf tape and io matrix < 1325669962 795619 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1325670020 96519 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :next insight here is that in such an io matrix, the pointer should have dimensions in addition to position < 1325670235 890781 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that can position the pointer at (x,y) and stretch it to (width, height) and do an operation on that like increment, decrement or write a specific value to them all. < 1325670483 280517 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is the left zero law for MonadPlus implied by the other Monad and Functor laws and by the type signatures? < 1325670916 677881 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: which laws? I can't think of one that would be related. < 1325670939 77475 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it needs mzero, which isn't defined anywhere else. < 1325671661 587780 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :mzero :: m a, where it must work for any argument type. Which means that fmap on it must not affect it since there can be no value to affect (since fmap id = id, it cannot do other things), which means join on such a thing must be same too (join mzero = mzero) due to the (>>= return) = id law. < 1325671704 26190 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did I do it wrong? < 1325671755 376794 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Assuming that the class methods must be fully defined, of course) < 1325671893 680362 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: hm, but then is that because of other laws or simply because mzero :: m a ? < 1325671965 403167 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it is due to the functor laws. The (>>= return) law seem to imply that if fmap cannot affect something, then join cannot affect it either. < 1325672244 733592 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I mean its value remain unaffected) < 1325672389 880210 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, I guess so? < 1325672394 191547 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is too metamath for me. :P < 1325672435 509602 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what causes 2 + 2 = 4? is it the 4, the +, the =, the left 2, or the right 2? < 1325672525 407846 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it is the + that causes 2 + 2 to make 4 < 1325672664 487782 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm < 1325672682 222531 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the whole expression depends on its parts. < 1325672701 321380 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes, I think what you're saying makes sense as well. < 1325672712 851759 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I agree with that. Still, the main thing that causes addition to result in an answer is the addition. < 1325672733 388551 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But of course it won't work if you don't have something to add! < 1325672750 502858 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(1+1) + (1 + 1) = (1 + 1 + 1 + 1) < 1325672772 554878 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also if equality were defined differently you would not be able to say the same thing about the value of 4. < 1325672773 825792 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: That's different; it is caused by associative laws. < 1325672791 196452 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Yes, that too. < 1325673074 615496 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I'm not sure that they're connected anyway. < 1325673093 495118 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure the zero law is just stemming from the simple fact that mplus and mzero form a monoid. < 1325673134 178214 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could say it's a result of mplus in much the same way that 4 is the result of addition in the expression 2 + 2. if you want to think of it that way. < 1325673235 904950 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe if mplus had a default definition, with mzero being the minimal complete definition. < 1325673262 532763 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: I don't think so. The identity law (mplus mzero = flip mplus mzero = id) follow from a monoid, but left zero law (mzero >> x = mzero) is difference, it is a bit like multiplication but not really. < 1325673306 603952 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh by left zero law I thought you meant mzero `mplus` x = mzero < 1325673326 457825 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, that is called the left identity law. < 1325673368 589496 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you can understand my other comments and proof now that you know what I meant by left zero law. < 1325673378 421590 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes that makes more sense. < 1325673415 108334 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops. here I was, getting all philosophical. < 1325673620 72866 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or hmmm... < 1325673662 252253 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, if the left zero law weren't true I don't think left identity for monads could be true either. < 1325673834 460676 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey QUIT :Quit: The Other Game < 1325674249 331579 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? monad < 1325674259 869219 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Monads are just monoids in the category of endofunctors. < 1325674265 990448 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has every desire to write some Template Haskell code very soon < 1325674272 267034 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: wwhy? < 1325674294 299391 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's either that or writing very repetitive Haskell code < 1325674300 621891 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1325674303 188102 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I've already been doing quite a bit of the latter :/ < 1325674311 281743 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because I intend to make a binding to the AW SDK < 1325674324 327543 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. maybe, < 1325674341 757420 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :repetitive in what way? < 1325674413 192610 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Defining data structures in a regular way with a consistent naming pattern, and making consistently named functions that take those data structures as arguments < 1325674416 465382 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Things like that < 1325674426 119960 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-4-250.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1325674426 476894 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-4-250.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1325674426 633012 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1325674510 656403 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will probably use a quasiquoter < 1325674534 422733 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I can copy/paste from Aw.h right into the thing without repeated search/replace and whatnot < 1325674542 818553 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Which I've been doing quite a bit of these past few days) < 1325674612 804562 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1325674867 593623 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: are you sure there's not an abstraction? < 1325675721 647545 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think that i have a hidden motive with programming to try to use programming to bridge the gap between required data resources and available financial < 1325675820 515929 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like for example, 3d scanners, 2d scanners, cameras, video cameras, 3d cameras, motion capture, microphones etc.. all provide a lot of data resources < 1325675950 279094 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not to mention the cost of actors, painters, animators, film sets, voice actors to apply all these technologies to < 1325676121 384137 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Abstract film? :3 < 1325676122 182399 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1325676152 350868 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1325676167 332791 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Max SendQ exceeded < 1325676204 434497 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1325676208 644440 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Frooxius: well the idea is quite obvious "aha.. i can simulate all these things with a computer!" but then there is the need for 2d digital artists, animators, 3d modellers, music composers, render farms (in some cases) < 1325676274 685046 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I just saw an abstraction and actors and such, I'm not really paying attention much ^^' < 1325676298 984171 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, since i don't understand esolangs i just go off on my own tangents < 1325676321 353961 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I made a short abstract (maybe? x3 ) film before though, if you're interested: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQJYr13Ixew < 1325676343 58914 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically my comments are not releveant or related to what was said before < 1325676419 126019 :Jafet1!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1325676441 120772 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1325676792 495180 :Jafet1!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1325676955 705366 :nooga!~nooga@213-238-100-35.adsl.inetia.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1325677475 443154 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, there probably are, but I can't think of anything off the top of my head that's remotely type-safe < 1325677503 942919 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or thread-safe < 1325677665 553981 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The type (c x y -> z) is a indexed comonad for any category c like (x -> z) is for a monoid x < 1325677680 413442 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The type (c x y -> z) is a indexed comonad for any category c like (x -> z) is a comonad for a monoid x < 1325677814 597753 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1325678844 30231 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm impressed by the language trigger having just read about it < 1325678910 780411 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1325678912 365555 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^? < 1325678918 79306 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^help < 1325678918 235760 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ ; ^def ; ^show [command]; lang=bf/ul, code=text/str:N; ^str 0-9 get/set/add [text]; ^style [style]; ^bool < 1325678936 436109 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? < 1325678940 969791 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat: wisdom/: Is a directory < 1325678944 540422 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`help < 1325678947 316288 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ < 1325679085 174881 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1325679258 247898 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1325679365 756648 :nooga!~nooga@213-238-100-35.adsl.inetia.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1325680659 181918 :MDuck!~fyrc@or-67-238-19-212.dhcp.embarqhsd.net NICK :MDude < 1325680737 404522 :nooga!~nooga@213.17.204.34 JOIN :#esoteric < 1325682259 409786 :nooga!~nooga@213.17.204.34 QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1325683749 436221 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu < 1325684047 498393 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf ,[.,]!hello < 1325684047 691200 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1325684146 274871 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1325684248 254480 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325684517 330210 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf ,[.,]!wb sgeo < 1325684517 523792 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :wb sgeo < 1325684543 782128 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ty < 1325684554 840642 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only restarted comp because I was too lazy to clear up the clutter of programs < 1325684559 84532 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wanted a fresh start < 1325684564 661426 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And now because of it I am noticing c2hs < 1325684703 316888 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i was working independantly on a symbol independant thing a few days ago and just encountered the idea on the wiki (probably unconcious plagiarism on my part) < 1325684708 118170 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, in this case the idea was < 1325684732 518356 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric : "" = 0, "x" = 1 where x is a particular symbol, "xx" = 2 where x is a particular symbol, "*" = infinity < 1325684774 6237 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in hindsight, the idea of "" = 0 doesn't look so great < 1325684814 728609 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but this would be designed to give something like aa+aa=aaaa < 1325684901 828991 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe to say 'a' = 1, 'b' = 2, 'c' = 3... "abbccc" < 1325684994 950380 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah.. nevermind.. < 1325685104 750856 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess what my notion comes down to is that a symbol could encode a number by being a string of that number < 1325685118 769058 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^in length < 1325685141 26105 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :moving on... < 1325685235 225636 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You see unary numbers like that sometimes; e.g. in sed programs, since it's easy to add them. < 1325685327 676065 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And there's of course the combination of unary and boring brainfuck derivatives, http://www.esolangs.org/wiki/Unary < 1325685351 748728 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :once, in a program lost to a hard disk crash, i had this idea of a rock paper scissors game where you could do sequences of rock paper scissors < 1325685424 255870 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i implemented it in c++ with allegro many years before coming here < 1325685439 251599 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a good idea... but hard disks die < 1325685469 653410 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway.. the idea was.. the 2 players had hitpoints... and different sequences take off different amounts of hitpoints < 1325685505 252369 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so rrr, ppp, sss gave you a bonus < 1325685518 421261 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then there was more complicated sequences < 1325685533 595186 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :up to possibly 8 in length i forget exactly < 1325685569 434483 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so the game becomes about trying to complete a long sequence, while preventing the other playing completing a long sequence < 1325685582 806436 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^s/playing/player < 1325685748 979448 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :since uh.. at every round of the game, a rock will beat a scissors < 1325685800 872700 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if you can predict what their pattern is you can try to head them off before they complete it < 1325685948 669651 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 , Skype: patashu0 . < 1325686593 405065 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1325686632 134170 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There.... is a box of Gardasil next to the butter in my fridge. < 1325686671 588330 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least my sandwich will be immune to cervical cancer *and* genital warts, I suppose. < 1325690716 82172 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't even tell if I'm tired or not. < 1325691652 245719 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is reading "What every computer scientist should know about floating-point arithmetic" < 1325691663 403924 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It's insane." < 1325691856 578830 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Floating-point arithmetic is considered an esoteric subject by many." -- first sentence. < 1325691880 919041 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is, because it's nuts. < 1325691929 659730 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or rather, it's designed for good enough accuracy over a wide range of precisions, not precise numerical computation. < 1325691938 939202 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/precisions/magnitudes/ < 1325691978 693838 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This is rather surprising, because floating-point is ubiquitous in computer systems: Almost every language has a floating-point datatype; computers from PCs to supercomputers have floating-point accelerators; most compilers will be called upon to compile floating-point algorithms from time to time; and virtually every operating system must handle floating-point exceptions such as overflow." < 1325691984 620661 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- second sentence < 1325692045 939574 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'll mostly be interested in the compiler and OS sections. < 1325692069 352380 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not the "lol this is how overflow and rounding errors happen lololololo" section < 1325692173 705849 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm it discusses the IEEE standard. That will be useful, because I haven't managed to find an open copy of it anywhere. < 1325692484 454019 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-6-216.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325692487 718423 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-6-216.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1325692665 215275 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-6-216.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like today's Gunnerkrigg court < 1325692763 44966 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-6-216.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Today's Comments on a Postcard sounds awfully familiar... < 1325693989 860275 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hooray, I now have an (almost; no 5-1) complete set of up to 6-piece Nalimov endgame tablebases. < 1325694205 69343 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, a complete set of 6-piece Nalimov endgame tablebases; tomorrow, the world! < 1325694667 36754 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the far future, perhaps a seven-piece set. < 1325695819 323484 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : oh hm it discusses the IEEE standard. That will be useful, because I haven't managed to find an open copy of it anywhere. <-- try IEEE? < 1325695901 579016 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, here: http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/mostRecentIssue.jsp?punumber=4610933 < 1325695970 154568 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got my copy from there, can access it by university proxy, check if your university offers that too (if you study at one, I don't remember). If you don't I'm afraid I'm not allowed to distribute it though, and the pdf is marked with who downloaded it on the bottom of every page. < 1325696028 474666 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes I can access it via my university. < 1325696041 114014 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, then the problem is solved < 1325696048 811447 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure if I can do so on this computer though < 1325696051 751969 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't checked. < 1325696068 23910 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, my university offers a proxy service for such things, so I can do it from anywhere < 1325696158 682672 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The /r/circlejerk CSS fooled me for a bit < 1325696222 359129 :lahwran!lahwran@unaffiliated/lahwran PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can downvote stuff there easy < 1325696309 499143 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not what I was referring to < 1325696590 939138 :lahwran!lahwran@unaffiliated/lahwran PRIVMSG #esoteric :then what were you referring to, oh wise CSS master? < 1325696792 706774 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1325696816 879839 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1325696937 682832 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1325696938 39029 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. < 1325696966 533708 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, Graue deleted some spam < 1325696973 11208 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell oerjan you owe me one < 1325696973 170019 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1325697009 516662 :lahwran!lahwran@unaffiliated/lahwran PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell lambdabot derp < 1325697009 833173 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice try ;) < 1325697041 94875 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lahwran, look at who the commenters are. < 1325697068 617582 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1325697082 110998 :lahwran!lahwran@unaffiliated/lahwran PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell lambdabot derp, okay? < 1325697082 269069 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1325697100 121567 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-6-216.as13285.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1325697195 712895 :lahwran!lahwran@unaffiliated/lahwran PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: that's actually pretty impressive CSS < 1325697225 851126 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-6-216.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325697493 23120 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-148-6-216.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325697530 971752 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-6-216.as13285.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1325698832 476313 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1325699303 174096 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi my name is kallisti < 1325699314 384210 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently earphones do not exist in the future. < 1325699321 215998 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION goes back to watching DS9 < 1325699352 219719 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is uncharacteristically watching the entire first season of Trigun. < 1325699760 760502 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did it have multiple seasons? < 1325699855 884663 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1325699924 185674 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oerjan, YOU MAY PAY ME IN BLOOD < 1325699979 228415 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325700079 508678 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*cough* < 1325700079 668084 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. < 1325700082 860083 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages < 1325700083 177973 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott said 9h 11m 50s ago: You should fix the Perl /// interpreter (per http://esolangs.org/wiki/Talk:Slashes) :P < 1325700083 336006 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott said 51m 49s ago: you owe me one < 1325700123 422549 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah but you used the reverse magical word < 1325700126 921403 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"should" that is < 1325700152 68972 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yes, and then I emailed Graue at the CORRECT ADDRESS unlike everybody else, and got a response, and he deleted spam. < 1325700161 844592 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And says he'll try and do something about it on the weekend. < 1325700163 156250 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :IN CONCLUSION < 1325700168 159149 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :PAY IN BLOOD, CORRECTED /// INTERPRETER < 1325700201 818362 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think i've emailed graue recently at any address, so i don't see the point < 1325700237 415697 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ais did, and you whined at least once about Graue being non-responsive :P < 1325700240 950473 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :BLOOD!!! < 1325700262 59064 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are lots of bloggers out there that do not really comprehend the potential of their blogs; specifically, the money making potential of the blog and how it might be optimized to generate a reliable online income. Here are a number of reasons why anyone may make money blogging. Blogs are becoming increasingly popular due to the fact that they can be put to use for income generation. Online Marketers work with blogs for advertising and marketi < 1325700262 216846 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ng and bloggers capitalize on that require and make dollars blogging. So why are blogs so rewarding? Well here are usually four reasons: < 1325700343 749028 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh ffs, it took way too long for me to get the hint < 1325700346 608576 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in this episode) < 1325700403 207024 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-148-6-216.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: Goodbye < 1325700432 187905 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am slightly worried that there are three admins active and still they missed User:KuzyFueesi < 1325700461 252815 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ais uses rss which can reorder things < 1325700467 29594 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno about keymaker < 1325700470 573359 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :graue only deleted one page, though < 1325700483 349878 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell ais523 [[User:KuzyFueesi]] < 1325700483 667644 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1325700537 316000 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :...but does it have a 10 cutoff limit like the wordpress blog rss? < 1325700630 931634 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Graaa upvote me you people. < 1325700633 510914 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I doubt it's that low. < 1325700897 337780 :DCliche!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325700967 261459 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!show slashes < 1325700969 840740 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl (sending via DCC) < 1325701027 472062 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thinks about techniques for efficient /// implementation < 1325701047 700878 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!slashes /test/ho///hm/test < 1325701049 686009 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ho < 1325701051 590290 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could store the whole program in a trie somehow < 1325701057 72739 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only thing you need ordering for is ordering of execution < 1325701095 697159 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1325701204 902179 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!slashes //hm/\?? < 1325701205 376997 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​?? < 1325701263 714242 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!slashes //h\m/\?? < 1325701264 228917 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? < 1325701454 166222 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :An article talking partly about J with a J code example from Programming in the 21st Century is #2 on proggit. < 1325701466 338971 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe proggit has merit after all. < 1325701483 636243 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, then I click the comments... < 1325701484 906449 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't read the comments. < 1325701537 247597 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: But all the other links are boring!!!!!! < 1325701538 398359 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::'( < 1325702313 533805 :Zuu!~zuu@unaffiliated/zuu QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1325702643 403628 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-6-216.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325702646 715835 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-6-216.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1325702807 428509 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi < 1325702975 975144 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!delinterp slashes < 1325702976 332468 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Interpreter slashes deleted. < 1325702999 185566 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!addinterp slashesl perl http://oerjan.nvg.org/esoteric/slashes/ircslashes.pl < 1325703001 610829 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Interpreter slashesl installed. < 1325703003 129653 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1325703006 505979 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!delinterp slashesl < 1325703006 823753 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Interpreter slashesl deleted. < 1325703011 993143 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!addinterp slashes perl http://oerjan.nvg.org/esoteric/slashes/ircslashes.pl < 1325703013 143973 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Interpreter slashes installed. < 1325703023 91632 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!slashes //h\m/\?? < 1325703049 25139 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!slashes /test/ho/test < 1325703049 539833 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ho < 1325703127 563169 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1325703229 626917 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!show slashes < 1325703231 730153 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl (sending via DCC) < 1325703291 505361 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION feels so anemic now < 1325703383 614048 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does anemic even mean < 1325703412 708125 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :lack of red blood cells < 1325703419 344177 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1325703423 355720 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i mean < 1325703424 784649 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i knew that < 1325703432 213936 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just assumed there must be some hidden meaning i was missing for that to make sense < 1325703452 342590 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just paid a blood debt, is all < 1325703455 201336 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-6-216.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan is actually anemic. He really needs to get to a hospital, stat < 1325703468 227827 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh dur < 1325703496 968882 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: a very plausible interpretation. < 1325703756 522232 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?pl \i o f a b -> i $ f (o a) (o b) < 1325703756 715160 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(. (flip =<< ((flip . ((.) .)) .) . flip (.))) . (.) . (.) . (.) < 1325703759 858197 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?pl \a b -> i $ f (o a) (o b) < 1325703760 173424 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i .) . (. o) . f . o < 1325703776 84369 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?pl \a b c -> i $ f (o a) (o b) (o c) < 1325703776 441426 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :((i .) .) . flip flip o . ((.) .) . (. o) . f . o < 1325703780 650302 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?pl \a b c d -> i $ f (o a) (o b) (o c) (o d) < 1325703780 967982 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(((i .) .) .) . flip flip o . ((flip . ((.) .)) .) . flip flip o . ((.) .) . (. o) . f . o < 1325703786 323373 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh < 1325703832 711522 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: needs more on < 1325703892 703207 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well the problem with on is that it's just for binary operators... < 1325703897 795263 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (?i .: ?f) `on` o < 1325703898 641569 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `a -> b' against inferred type `Expr' < 1325703898 799980 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : In the second argument of `on', namely `o' < 1325703898 956613 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : In the expression: (?i .: ?f) `on` o < 1325703901 698868 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (?i .: ?f) `on` ?o < 1325703902 650750 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a c b a1. (?i::a -> c, ?f::b -> b -> a, ?o::a1 -> b) => a1 -> a1 -> c < 1325703912 160045 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be nice to regularise the scheme a bit so that you can more easily extend to further arguments. < 1325703919 818546 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a la zipWithN vs. ZipList < 1325703946 989303 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i believe we wrote onN on a previous occasion < 1325704232 659125 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh did we < 1325704239 973517 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean i don't want a typeclass hack < 1325704241 922854 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a more regular scheme < 1325704271 355916 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ty runWriter < 1325704272 228020 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall w a. Writer w a -> (a, w) < 1325704509 829802 :DCliche!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net NICK :Klisz < 1325705077 562899 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :BOOM! < 1325705082 718909 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t let onMore c f o a = c (f (o a)) o; onEnd f _ = f in onMore (onMore onEnd) < 1325705083 421125 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall t t1 t2. (t2 -> t2 -> t) -> (t1 -> t2) -> t1 -> t1 -> t < 1325705105 772502 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: regular enough? :) < 1325705128 447914 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t let onMore c f o a = c (f (o a)) o; onEnd f _ = f in onMore (onMore (onMore (onMore onEnd))) < 1325705129 878820 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall t t1 t2. (t2 -> t2 -> t2 -> t2 -> t) -> (t1 -> t2) -> t1 -> t1 -> t1 -> t1 -> t < 1325705143 50868 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: heh, nice < 1325705167 770664 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t let onMore c f o a = c (f (o a)) o; onEnd f _ = f in (onMore . onMore . onMore . onMore) onEnd < 1325705168 604474 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall t t1 t2. (t1 -> t1 -> t1 -> t1 -> t2) -> (t -> t1) -> t -> t -> t -> t -> t2 < 1325705183 547298 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it would be nice to specify i and o as an argument, though, but only once < 1325705188 101237 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that would be a pain though < 1325705196 717080 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. factor them out into an argument without having to repeat them < 1325705198 989062 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like it, though < 1325705205 949795 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: um o _is_ factored out < 1325705232 60220 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh, so it is < 1325705236 175503 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see, sorry :) < 1325705241 217920 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :onEnd is o there, right? < 1325705251 164557 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's const < 1325705264 330997 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I'm asking what I'd replace to change o < 1325705273 814665 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :onEnd is on0, really < 1325705287 792304 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and onMore onN = onSuccN < 1325705296 882509 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :with on2 the usual one < 1325705301 439591 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't tell whether you understand my question :P < 1325705347 226162 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: o is the second argument of onN, as usual < 1325705506 376874 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t let ioMore c f i o a = c (f (o a)) i o; ioEnd f i _ = i f in ioMore (ioMore (ioMore ioEnd)) < 1325705507 251054 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall t t1 t2 t3. (t3 -> t3 -> t3 -> t) -> (t -> t1) -> (t2 -> t3) -> t2 -> t2 -> t2 -> t1 < 1325705518 112922 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ok maybe i'm not expressing what I want < 1325705521 65753 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I see < 1325705522 692517 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: there you go < 1325705537 858540 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: neat, thanks -- it'd be nice if f came /after/ i and o though >__> < 1325705543 335223 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :although hmm i guess that's pretty easy < 1325705548 735579 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1325705573 823717 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t let nest c i o f a = c i o (f (o a)); stop i _ f = i f in (nest.nest.nest) stop Endo appEndo < 1325705574 620032 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a a1. ((a1 -> a1) -> (a1 -> a1) -> (a1 -> a1) -> a -> a) -> Endo a1 -> Endo a1 -> Endo a1 -> Endo a < 1325705579 71468 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: :D < 1325705589 332016 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :generalised newtype-ish lifting < 1325705597 308243 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1325705634 840607 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION then wonders if you could bundle i and o into _stop_ < 1325705638 113667 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that it'd look like < 1325705643 463474 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(nest.nest.nest) inEndo ... < 1325705648 55672 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :with inEndo being defined appropriately < 1325705652 624653 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be the absolute ideal < 1325705800 620124 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-6-216.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now you've got me thinking about zipWithN < 1325705803 996474 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can do it if you put inEndo first < 1325705808 104642 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: see ZipList < 1325705817 549024 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh, indeed < 1325705819 613880 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's even better, too < 1325705832 273924 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t let nest c i o f a = c i o (f (o a)); stop i _ f = i f; inEndo f = f stop Endo appEndo in inEndo (nest.nest.nest) < 1325705833 69166 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a a1. ((a1 -> a1) -> (a1 -> a1) -> (a1 -> a1) -> a -> a) -> Endo a1 -> Endo a1 -> Endo a1 -> Endo a < 1325705868 28216 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm stop seems so redundant there, the only place it's used is where you already know what i is < 1325705881 377659 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t let nest c i o f a = c i o (f (o a)); stop i _ f = i f; inEndo f = f stop Endo appEndo in inEndo stop < 1325705882 172118 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a t. t -> Endo a -> a -> a < 1325705888 839728 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :he < 1325705889 197582 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :h < 1325705889 833380 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: just use const i, then < 1325705903 70608 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1325705906 605099 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t let nest c i o f a = c i o (f (o a)); inEndo f = f (const Endo) Endo appEndo in inEndo stop < 1325705907 241449 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `stop' < 1325705908 550891 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1325705909 516756 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t let nest c i o f a = c i o (f (o a)); inEndo f = f (const Endo) Endo appEndo in inEndo nest < 1325705910 390338 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `Endo a' < 1325705910 545820 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred type `t -> t1' < 1325705910 545931 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Probable cause: `nest' is applied to too few arguments < 1325705913 766772 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i think not < 1325705919 643636 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :just const < 1325705926 637608 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well right < 1325705930 961881 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t let nest c i o f a = c i o (f (o a)); inEndo f = f const Endo appEndo in inEndo nest < 1325705931 915079 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a a1. ((a1 -> a1) -> a -> a) -> Endo a1 -> Endo a < 1325705939 578309 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl \c i o f a -> c i o (f (o a)) < 1325705939 934926 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :flip flip (flip (.)) . (liftM2 ((.) . (.)) .) < 1325705943 865150 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl \i o f a -> c i o (f (o a)) < 1325705944 382139 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(`ap` flip (.)) . (((.) . (.)) .) . c < 1325705946 525116 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl \o f a -> c i o (f (o a)) < 1325705946 843080 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ap ((.) . (.) . c i) (flip (.)) < 1325705949 26877 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl \f a -> c i o (f (o a)) < 1325705949 185455 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(c i o .) . (. o) < 1325705951 622018 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1325705984 567917 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@let result = (.) < 1325705985 458575 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Defined. < 1325705987 819003 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@let argument = flip (.) < 1325705988 891707 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Defined. < 1325705999 501544 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t \f a -> c i o (f (o a)) < 1325706000 296108 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `t -> t1' against inferred type `Expr' < 1325706000 454436 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : In the first argument of `f', namely `(o a)' < 1325706000 610331 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : In the third argument of `c', namely `(f (o a))' < 1325706004 420631 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t \c i o f a -> c i o (f (o a)) < 1325706005 253974 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall t t1 t2 t3 t4. (t -> (t1 -> t2) -> t3 -> t4) -> t -> (t1 -> t2) -> (t2 -> t3) -> t1 -> t4 < 1325706013 141343 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t \c i o -> result (c i o) . argument o < 1325706013 933922 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall t a b (f :: * -> *) a1. (Functor f) => (t -> f a1 -> a -> b) -> t -> f a1 -> (a1 -> a) -> f b < 1325706015 525696 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :excellent < 1325706043 419667 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :: let nest k i o = result (k i o) . argument o; inEndo f = f const Endo appEndo in inEndo nest < 1325706045 801297 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t let nest k i o = result (k i o) . argument o; inEndo f = f const Endo appEndo in inEndo nest < 1325706046 596359 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a a1. ((a1 -> a1) -> a -> a) -> Endo a1 -> Endo a < 1325706051 558763 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that's really nice, thank you! < 1325706099 263753 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(those argument and result combinators are from http://conal.net/blog/posts/semantic-editor-combinators) < 1325706168 286726 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i remember < 1325706246 571006 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i was inspired by seeing (~>) defined later based on that and Conal liking it, as (i ~> o) f = i . f . o < 1325706262 776966 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing that can't be extended to more arguments is elegant enough! :p < 1325706288 875290 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t let nest k o = result (k o) . argument o; inEndo f = f (const Endo) appEndo in inEndo nest < 1325706289 733557 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a a1. ((a -> a) -> a1 -> a1) -> Endo a -> Endo a1 < 1325706299 339422 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nicer still < 1325706328 135189 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t let nest k o = result (k o) . argument o; (i ~> o) f = f (const i) o; inEndo = Endo ~> appEndo in inEndo (nest . nest) < 1325706328 927712 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a a1. ((a -> a) -> (a -> a) -> a1 -> a1) -> Endo a -> Endo a -> Endo a1 < 1325706335 759033 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: methinks that's as good as it gets :P < 1325706337 385971 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh ugh < 1325706341 379375 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what's with the monomorphism there? < 1325706365 673160 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? < 1325706371 671953 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : :t let nest k o = result (k o) . argument o; (i ~> o) f = f (const i) o; inEndo = Endo ~> appEndo in inEndo (nest . nest) < 1325706371 830198 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : forall a a1. ((a -> a) -> (a -> a) -> a1 -> a1) -> Endo a -> Endo a -> Endo a1 < 1325706372 306261 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not < 1325706380 930131 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :((a -> a) -> (b -> b) -> (c -> c)) -> Endo a -> Endo b -> Endo c < 1325706409 788687 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl \k o -> (k o .) . (. o) < 1325706409 983260 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(`ap` flip (.)) . (((.) . (.)) .) < 1325706413 638640 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1325706534 569833 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t appEndo < 1325706535 284549 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. Endo a -> a -> a < 1325706550 1746 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just the newtype field < 1325706560 699476 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1325706562 704095 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : :t let nest k o = result (k o) . argument o; (i ~> o) f = f (const i) o; inEndo = Endo ~> appEndo in nest < 1325706565 605313 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1325706567 868557 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t let nest k o = result (k o) . argument o; (i ~> o) f = f (const i) o; inEndo = Endo ~> appEndo in nest < 1325706568 666941 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (f :: * -> *) a a1 b. (Functor f) => (f a -> a1 -> b) -> f a -> (a -> a1) -> f b < 1325706577 909152 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-6-216.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello, ais523 < 1325706584 739935 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i think nest's recursion might be restricting all the arguments of the result to have the same type, sort of thing < 1325706596 157034 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh lambdabot's (.) isn't helping < 1325706599 530859 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hi, graue replied < 1325706645 654482 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes, of course, because they all have o applied < 1325706717 446729 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :o is passed as an argument, thus monomorphic. i suppose you could sprinkle some rank2 < 1325706769 596485 :Zuu!zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric < 1325706816 676919 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh, ofc < 1325706822 276805 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t let nest k o = result (k o) P.. argument o; (i ~> o) f = f (const i) o; inEndo = Endo ~> appEndo in nest < 1325706823 118720 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Couldn't find qualified module. < 1325706826 771324 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t let nest k o = result (k o) Prelude.. argument o; (i ~> o) f = f (const i) o; inEndo = Endo ~> appEndo in nest < 1325706827 722121 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (f :: * -> *) a a1 b. (Functor f) => (f a -> a1 -> b) -> f a -> (a -> a1) -> f b < 1325706837 196599 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t let nest k o = (k o Prelude..) Prelude.. (Prelude.. o); (i ~> o) f = f (const i) o; inEndo = Endo ~> appEndo in nest < 1325706837 990773 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b c c1. ((a -> b) -> c -> c1) -> (a -> b) -> (b -> c) -> a -> c1 < 1325706863 484013 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what was the reply? < 1325706863 643155 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. < 1325706896 733655 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: he'll see what he can do, but might not have time until the weekend or after < 1325706905 95623 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, looks like he deleted exactly one spam page < 1325706908 516632 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah :P < 1325706915 455398 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :doing his bit! :) < 1325706936 968345 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, I conclude that anyone who has sent email to Graue in, like, a year, has sent email to /dev/null < 1325706955 578366 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I did mention AbuseFilter in my email < 1325706958 767387 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're welcome < 1325706968 220896 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was considering asking him to update MW too :P < 1325707004 181118 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hindley-milner sucks, restricting monomorphism like that :) < 1325707026 517958 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you have to update MW to install AbuseFilter < 1325707035 632321 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you mention spam blacklist, and upgrading the CAPTCHA, too? < 1325707049 823744 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: unfortunately I'd need a typeclass or something to fix it < 1325707064 489519 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "It would be greatly appreciated if you could tighten the CAPTCHA, or < 1325707064 648693 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :install an extension like AbuseFilter to allow the admins to blacklist < 1325707064 804959 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :problem domains." < 1325707067 986248 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :--me < 1325707072 987823 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(elliott) < 1325707145 975118 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :AbuseFilter does much more than blacklisting domains < 1325707149 431563 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can, say, blacklist regexps < 1325707161 145570 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even, say, forbid a user's first edit being to their own user page < 1325707163 290862 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd love to do that < 1325707174 643754 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yeah, but I (a) was annoyed enough about the spam to be writing it quickly and (b) didn't feel like writing marketing copy :P < 1325707190 749826 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and just throw up a message saying "editing your own user page on your first edit is a common behaviour for spambots, please edit a different page first, such as the sandbox, to prove you're human") < 1325707260 450626 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION considers changing "Why not join us on IRC?" to "Why not join us in the matrix of solidity?" < 1325707265 458027 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe once Graue isn't looking :D < 1325707708 273330 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do you consider /IRC/ to be the matrix of solidity? < 1325707713 470323 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastlog matrix of solidity < 1325707748 495362 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1325707752 294605 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote matrix of solidity < 1325707756 262973 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :299) enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity < 1325707760 483786 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's the origin of it, after all < 1325707774 843894 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: indeed < 1325707778 18076 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :we, on IRC, were closed-minded; treederwright enlightened us as to the matrix of solidity we are locked within < 1325707787 834705 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't believe that "matrix of solidity" never came up in the logs before now, though < 1325707793 158623 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, I conclude that pastlog has broken again < 1325707797 8198 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :most likely < 1325707798 476624 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastlog solidity < 1325707824 715354 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-11-10.txt:22:50:04: `quote matrix of solidity < 1325707838 708722 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src replicateM < 1325707838 909553 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :replicateM n x = sequence (replicate n x) < 1325707840 492838 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1325707840 651040 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src replicateM_ < 1325707840 809474 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :replicateM_ n x = sequence_ (replicate n x) < 1325707844 497601 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src sequence < 1325707844 656875 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :sequence [] = return [] < 1325707844 816361 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :sequence (x:xs) = do v <- x; vs <- sequence xs; return (v:vs) < 1325707844 972758 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- OR: sequence = foldr (liftM2 (:)) (return []) < 1325707845 451549 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src sequence_ < 1325707845 610795 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :sequence_ ms = foldr (>>) (return ()) ms < 1325708299 584332 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325708351 463726 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : so, I conclude that pastlog has broken again <-- i wonder if this is the same bug that sometimes causes `welcome to give only the nick: part < 1325708360 914808 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-6-216.as13285.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1325708374 65599 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hmm < 1325708387 456660 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome clog cmeme glogbot glogbackup < 1325708390 866613 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :clog: cmeme: glogbot: glogbackup: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page < 1325708413 955968 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i _think_ it usually happens when HackEgo is just starting up after a long break < 1325708437 569697 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :like something is timing out, maybe < 1325708452 401824 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastlog matrix of solidity < 1325708461 127717 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-04-01.txt:23:42:21: * iconmaster is enjoying being locked in his matrix of solidity. < 1325708489 988722 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastlog matrix of solidity < 1325708494 601327 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hmm, perhaps < 1325708498 15784 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-05-18.txt:20:14:43: also, I didn't know that the matrix of solidity thing was on the main page < 1325708509 78172 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :could just be a problem with trying to load all the logs into cache < 1325708514 193071 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :HackEgo is really slow < 1325708520 685035 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so timing out after "waking up" sounds likely to me < 1325708538 286784 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure it would give partial output, though, and I /rewrote/ that piece of code < 1325708544 203930 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo -n hi; sleep 10000 < 1325708546 984640 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo bye; sleep 10000 < 1325708577 135186 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1325708581 193451 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye < 1325708595 638374 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: for `welcome, which i wrote, it's probably to do with the use of @ and ? subprocesses? < 1325708613 869278 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: perhaps, yes < 1325708668 766487 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-141.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325708673 153500 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-141.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1325708685 120897 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-141.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remember my vocab tester thing I did a while back? < 1325708692 969172 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-141.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've decided to give it more features < 1325708701 956498 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-141.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because I am mad < 1325708707 655533 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :a fnobbly cromulent vocab tester < 1325708721 149461 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-141.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`words latin < 1325708729 390021 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-141.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`words --help < 1325708729 906009 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Argument "latin" isn't numeric in int at /hackenv/bin/words line 141. \ < 1325708733 477177 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Usage: words [-dhNo] [DATASETS...] [NUMBER_OF_WORDS] \ \ valid datasets: --eng-1M --eng-all --eng-fiction --eng-gb --eng-us --french --german --hebrew --russian --spanish --irish --german-medical --bulgarian --catalan --swedish --brazilian --canadian-english-insane --manx --italian --ogerman --portuguese --polish --gaelic --finnish --norwegian \ default: --eng-1M \ \ options: \ -h, --help this help text < 1325708748 706789 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-141.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`words --italian < 1325708752 441748 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :convalco < 1325708763 845733 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-141.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`words 10 --italian < 1325708767 484103 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :fughe soltinsava disperai rimentissa imitargogne abbero perter sbendaleghe crimpleme scolora < 1325708796 717957 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :lascianza sperate vogni chintrate < 1325708969 328312 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-141.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does System.Environment.getArgs behave? < 1325708994 901622 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: it gives a list argument strings < 1325708997 6761 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*of < 1325709019 771728 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :excluding program name < 1325709034 735132 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :in IO, of course < 1325709065 255259 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t System.Environment.getArgs < 1325709066 51555 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :IO [String] < 1325709068 990795 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-141.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, if I ran "latin_vocab military", what would it give me? < 1325709071 692827 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: "of course" -- many people would see no problem with getArgs being pure :/ < 1325709073 833771 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-141.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :[military]? < 1325709076 732647 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well apart from the existence of withArgs < 1325709079 787874 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: ["military"] < 1325709088 995512 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-141.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1325709105 400308 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: there's a function to change it, though :P < 1325709115 814217 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> foldr (+) 0 [1..5] :: Sym Int < 1325709116 648055 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 15 < 1325709118 873141 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am sad face :( < 1325709129 948275 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well apart from the existence of withArgs < 1325709148 279875 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: "i sure do like how Sym reduces expressions automatically" --kallisti < 1325709157 537654 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i cannot possibly read and write response simultaneously, duh < 1325709162 753287 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i do :) < 1325709177 203980 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: obviously you should do exactly what I want in all situations. < 1325709181 177741 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1325709184 351477 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/you/it/ < 1325709203 252524 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> foldr (+) 0 [1..5] :: Sym (Sym Int) < 1325709204 403894 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 15 < 1325709279 448843 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> foldr (+) 0 [1..5] :: Sym ((->) Int) < 1325709280 241880 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : `(->) GHC.Types.Int' is not applied to enough type arguments < 1325709280 399971 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : The first arg... < 1325709361 311521 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t runWriter < 1325709362 19179 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall w a. Writer w a -> (a, w) < 1325709637 117776 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1325709710 380361 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src callCC < 1325709710 697635 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source not found. I feel much better now. < 1325709712 704137 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :grr < 1325709734 716626 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: btw chu-carroll over at goodmath/badmath is doing a series on basic category theory < 1325709749 219508 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh cool < 1325709749 696945 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :he just got to cartesian closed categories < 1325709755 970334 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :why didn't you tell me earlier :P < 1325709764 292575 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll check it out < 1325709778 426774 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :because there was just a post reminding me < 1325709790 151332 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src callCC < 1325709790 308563 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source not found. I feel much better now. < 1325709790 467209 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src callCC < 1325709790 623635 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source not found. :( < 1325709790 832945 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src callCC < 1325709790 992208 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source not found. Just what do you think you're doing Dave? < 1325709793 699956 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1325709803 935633 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t callCC < 1325709804 762329 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a (m :: * -> *) b. (MonadCont m) => ((a -> m b) -> m a) -> m a < 1325709812 569533 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a method < 1325709858 656046 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src Cont callCC < 1325709858 847508 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :callCC f = Cont $ \c -> runCont (f (\a -> Cont $ \_ -> c a)) c < 1325709860 957244 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thx < 1325709888 948955 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder if they'll add writer and reader as methods like they're doing with state. oh hm reader would just be asks, wouldn't it < 1325709892 190763 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t reader < 1325709892 866561 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall r a. (r -> a) -> Reader r a < 1325709896 627746 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t asks < 1325709897 462252 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall r a (m :: * -> *). (MonadReader r m) => (r -> a) -> m a < 1325709917 344881 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t writer < 1325709918 30411 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a w. (a, w) -> Writer w a < 1325709928 469300 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> callCC ($ [42,43]) >> callCC ($ [99]) < 1325709929 182899 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (GHC.Show.Show (m [t])) < 1325709929 342703 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use of `M43411467... < 1325709934 726077 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> runCont (callCC ($ [42,43]) >> callCC ($ [99])) id < 1325709935 519867 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [99] < 1325710021 566753 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t cont < 1325710022 361735 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a r. ((a -> r) -> r) -> Cont r a < 1325710047 556971 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm would that even make sense as a MonadCont method < 1325710056 968006 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t ContT < 1325710057 998041 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a (m :: * -> *) r. ((a -> m r) -> m r) -> ContT r m a < 1325710122 20536 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have a -> m r, and (a -> r) -> r, can you construct an m r < 1325710159 652772 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably not < 1325710167 553219 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: with what on m? < 1325710170 330117 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :MonadFix? if so, probably yes < 1325710175 453012 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Monad? no < 1325710179 961353 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-141.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you put breakpoints in ghci < 1325710189 730876 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-141.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :For debugging purposes < 1325710196 836114 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i was assuming it should be something generalizing cont < 1325710207 532735 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh so MonadCont m? < 1325710229 658877 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I see < 1325710233 537179 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're asking whether cont could go in MonadCont < 1325710234 212567 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: not quite < 1325710237 232456 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1325710255 218097 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: couldn't you just fix r = m r, and then run it? < 1325710257 361974 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :all of reader, writer and state could go in the respective classes (and state will/does) < 1325710266 42217 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and wire up the continuation to escape the outer continuation < 1325710273 658130 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cont is really special though < 1325710280 192181 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, most monad transformers commute < 1325710285 895882 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of them can lift callback operations in the base monad < 1325710291 222753 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ContT can't do anything like that < 1325710304 438034 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a sense because it's the most general monad possible < 1325710317 855536 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you don't get any convenient extra laws :P < 1325710341 277089 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ContT is the most general monad possible? < 1325710343 498870 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps that's sort of why... you can lift reader, writer and state because they are essentially commuting extensions < 1325710350 273645 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: well you can build any monad with Cont < 1325710356 345947 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ContT = Cont anyway. < 1325710358 570869 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://blog.sigfpe.com/2008/12/mother-of-all-monads.html and so on < 1325710367 786885 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1325710372 171669 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so ContT sort of gives you the raw monad structure and doesn't let you assume anything < 1325710372 647841 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But what about generalizations of Cont? < 1325710375 668941 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT DO YOU SAY TO THOSE? < 1325710381 968687 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: :'( < 1325710389 854141 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : perhaps that's sort of why... you can lift reader, writer and state because they are essentially commuting extensions < 1325710395 385108 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: this is why i like the composable effects model < 1325710416 45523 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it even supports Cont < 1325710425 279843 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1325710435 811367 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/kan-extensions/2.1/doc/html/Data-Functor-KanExtension.html < 1325710436 130262 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://math.andrej.com/2010/09/27/programming-with-effects-ii-introducing-eff/ < 1325710441 873932 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(http://hackage.haskell.org/package/effects is a haskell impl) < 1325710447 174117 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hmm ListT has problems too < 1325710460 878844 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess anything sufficiently control-flowy makes monad transformers go to hell < 1325710524 187748 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: "compose" as a type variable? Seriously? < 1325710530 78254 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no TOPIC #esoteric :The real haskell overflow channel | TODO: spam blacklist | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1325710541 600327 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Why not? < 1325710552 248539 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: It's so long! < 1325710558 211945 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, you've been talking about Cont for a while in here. < 1325710562 861031 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION considers reading the backlog. < 1325710563 971292 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION nah < 1325710584 422271 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: It's about whether you can put cont in MonadCont. < 1325710629 554765 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : I guess anything sufficiently control-flowy makes monad transformers go to hell <-- what about ErrorT < 1325710647 61312 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: You should read that post on eff if you haven't; we finally have a decent alternatiev to monad transformers. < 1325710653 495809 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: good question < 1325710661 543678 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: people always put ErrorT just above IO or Identity, I forget why < 1325710672 66224 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*alternative < 1325710681 584554 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Ugh. Added to the list of tabs. < 1325710728 597483 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: You just can't handle the SNAZZ. < 1325710771 249493 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So much snazz. < 1325711707 441770 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Ping < 1325711997 893736 :iconmaster!~iconmaste@cpe-74-79-18-174.twcny.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1325712215 776081 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1325712316 791358 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 JOIN :#esoteric < 1325712463 270915 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Ponk < 1325712521 705504 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pink < 1325712531 876503 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yellow polka-dot < 1325712580 833425 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t \str strList -> elem (map toLower str) $ convertToLower $ words strList < 1325712581 627728 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `convertToLower' < 1325712588 554785 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t \str strList -> elem (map toLower str) $ id $ words strList < 1325712589 399801 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :[Char] -> String -> Bool < 1325712675 366250 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t any < 1325712676 199863 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (a -> Bool) -> [a] -> Bool < 1325712713 611795 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : Hussel-bussel. Anyway. <-- hussuru bussuru < 1325712794 128821 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t elem < 1325712795 12840 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Eq a) => a -> [a] -> Bool < 1325712811 932065 :cswords!~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325712820 663438 :cswords!~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1325712897 641506 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ords of csw < 1325713010 544383 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: so how often do you eat three tonnes of jarlsberg? < 1325713075 269659 :rapido!~rapido@89-60-215.ftth.xms.internl.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325713107 311559 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Oh, right, you replied :P < 1325713114 851316 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-141.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, so /that's/ why that sounded familiar < 1325713117 601399 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: How does the log formatter know when someone leaves a channel; that requires unbounded lookback in the logs < 1325713233 966780 :rapido!~rapido@89-60-215.ftth.xms.internl.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :for almost 2 years, i'm obsessed with uniquely represented data structures < 1325713286 198899 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :rapido: hi < 1325713306 135663 :rapido!~rapido@89-60-215.ftth.xms.internl.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hey, it's been a while < 1325713313 364737 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1325713322 744448 :rapido!~rapido@89-60-215.ftth.xms.internl.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :obsessions are good < 1325713338 864192 :rapido!~rapido@89-60-215.ftth.xms.internl.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no? < 1325713368 627282 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, obsessions are evil, you must dedicate your life to eradicate them all! < 1325713376 602146 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ing < 1325713527 644984 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only good obsession is @ < 1325713572 29382 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, there was something I was thinking about earlier that I thought belonged in #esoteric < 1325713578 191366 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul ((@ )S:^):^ < 1325713578 348003 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ...too much output! < 1325713578 509374 :rapido!~rapido@89-60-215.ftth.xms.internl.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i must admit - i want to pick your esoteric brains < 1325713581 679229 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I guess we'll never know < 1325713588 389067 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/@/@ and Stack Overflow/ < 1325713601 845947 :rapido!~rapido@89-60-215.ftth.xms.internl.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone familiar with uniquely represented data structures? < 1325713626 195727 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :rapido: I take it you mean structures for which syntactic equality is semantic equality? < 1325713633 307732 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :future log readers will wonder why that previous fungot line exceeds the irc length limit. of course it's really just because @ is that awesome. < 1325713633 624833 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: as a veteran of the game. then i'll put a mean game of blackjack. < 1325713634 260271 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :By "I take it", I mean "I am going to wildly guess". < 1325713653 930915 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I think fungot might be conservative enough about the limits to prevent that :P < 1325713654 87457 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: and just what your porkhollow's fat ass needs. < 1325713665 391274 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: I love you too. < 1325713665 551216 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: his birthday is in a few minutes. wow he is so cool. two more large gizmos. it was once the island < 1325713699 678741 :rapido!~rapido@89-60-215.ftth.xms.internl.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: nah, its about unique representation (=layout in memory). But hey, who doesn't want to be unique? < 1325713720 465829 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :rapido: Unique howso? "Nobody else has thought of it"? < 1325713795 349852 :rapido!~rapido@89-60-215.ftth.xms.internl.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :example: http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dgolovin/papers/btreap.pdf < 1325713809 427367 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf ,>,[.<.>]! @ < 1325713809 585902 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ... < 1325713811 888582 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: sure, as long as the name is no longer than 3 characters < 1325713822 353321 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mhm, the ^ul lines are longer. < 1325713826 651727 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, 2 < 1325713852 330076 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, it doesn't go full 512-hog. < 1325713854 873054 :rapido!~rapido@89-60-215.ftth.xms.internl.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't want others to know that you have been deleting the sexist remark < 1325713880 431579 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :rapido: "Uniquely < 1325713880 590484 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :represented data structures represent each logical state with a unique machine state. < 1325713880 747017 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such data structures are strongly history-independent; they reveal no information < 1325713880 747219 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :about the historical sequence of operations that led to the current logical state. For < 1325713880 747329 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :example, a uniquely represented file-system would support the deletion of a file in < 1325713880 987453 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a way that, in a strong information-theoretic sense, provably removes all evidence < 1325713882 944593 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that the file ever existed." < 1325713887 452542 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :rapido: OK, that _is_ what I said, then. < 1325713899 790685 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If syntactic equality is semantic equality, every equivalent state has a single representation. < 1325713917 923523 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Intensional equality, if you'd prefer. < 1325713918 240964 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The ^ul might go quite close, though. < 1325713968 831427 :rapido!~rapido@89-60-215.ftth.xms.internl.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Intensional equality" - that's a cool definition < 1325714011 613706 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul ((0123456789)S:^):^ < 1325714011 772316 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123 ...too much output! < 1325714028 319725 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION likes such definitions too, but for reasons of mathematical elegance more than information-hiding. < 1325714031 520847 :rapido!~rapido@89-60-215.ftth.xms.internl.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's hard to achieve strong history-independency < 1325714069 590560 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really care about the actual bits and bytes representation so long as the constructor tree is the same... but it's the same thing from a different level of abstraction, and the only difference will be the exact values of pointers. < 1325714069 909062 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :344 < 1325714098 418559 :rapido!~rapido@89-60-215.ftth.xms.internl.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but pondering on it for two years i finally think i have a good result - but it feels hacky < 1325714105 936913 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would think Haskell would be a good playground for creating such structures. < 1325714117 331940 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 324/9 < 1325714118 126339 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 36.0 < 1325714125 562202 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Not if you care about the exact in-memory representation :P < 1325714150 605200 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :rapido: The simplest way to achieve history-dependency would be to deconstruct and reconstruct the structure on every operation, of course. < 1325714151 440748 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's implementation dependent anyway... < 1325714172 355230 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Yes, in Haskell. < 1325714177 477219 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Circular reasoning, man,. < 1325714200 105029 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well that makes sense because circular reasoning is circular. < 1325714230 456492 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (:[])>=>(:[])>=>(:[]) $ "hi" < 1325714231 408527 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ["hi"] < 1325714232 201833 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually that's begging the question, I think. In the formal sense. < 1325714250 920760 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :beggining the question is circular reasoning because it begs the question though. obviously. < 1325714255 462076 :rapido!~rapido@89-60-215.ftth.xms.internl.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone familiar with cartesian trees (treaps?) < 1325714285 458831 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am now. < 1325714305 83564 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have *heard* the term treap! < 1325714332 791382 :rapido!~rapido@89-60-215.ftth.xms.internl.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :they have the unique property that they have a unique representation < 1325714353 319482 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1325714354 475740 :rapido!~rapido@89-60-215.ftth.xms.internl.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a fixed set of (x,y) pairs < 1325714459 890597 :rapido!~rapido@89-60-215.ftth.xms.internl.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fixed in the sense that there is one unique cartesian tree for a set of (x,y) pairs < 1325714468 120509 :rapido!~rapido@89-60-215.ftth.xms.internl.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :am i boring you? < 1325714491 98786 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :totally. (no) < 1325714524 845520 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's kind of like a binary search tree except that it's also heap and it's sorted by position in the original sequence instead of by an ordering over the elements. < 1325714535 394179 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_>? < 1325714542 669052 :lax!~nellcita@190.233.65.105 JOIN :#esoteric < 1325714544 743778 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-141.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (>+>) < 1325714545 577561 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `>+>' < 1325714547 363901 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome lax < 1325714549 32731 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-141.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (>_>) < 1325714549 801045 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :parse error on input `)' < 1325714554 715905 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :lax: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page < 1325714573 257000 :lax!~nellcita@190.233.65.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :any friend hereeeeeeee < 1325714575 956669 :lax!~nellcita@190.233.65.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :im ne win thisssssssssss < 1325714578 180411 :lax!~nellcita@190.233.65.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :inthis < 1325714580 917523 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1325714582 29127 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm friend < 1325714585 46868 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sup < 1325714596 707803 :lax!~nellcita@190.233.65.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohh thanksss < 1325714600 830510 :lax!~nellcita@190.233.65.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was tryign this page < 1325714604 401353 :lax!~nellcita@190.233.65.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for hoursss < 1325714613 556671 :lax!~nellcita@190.233.65.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and finally i did it < 1325714614 545947 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION giggles gleefully. < 1325714617 21454 :lax!~nellcita@190.233.65.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1325714619 443420 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :congrats < 1325714634 40167 :lax!~nellcita@190.233.65.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so u are chatting here? < 1325714639 342323 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-141.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1325714648 375212 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-141.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Supposedly about esoteric programming languages < 1325714658 62747 :lax!~nellcita@190.233.65.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliottttttttttttt < 1325714662 194672 :lax!~nellcita@190.233.65.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :dotn leave meeeeeeee < 1325714666 470164 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: [[User:KuzyFueesi‎]] < 1325714669 86398 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lax: hi < 1325714677 305315 :lax!~nellcita@190.233.65.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahhh i tough u gone < 1325714681 745941 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i never leave < 1325714683 780013 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm actually a robot < 1325714688 104504 :lax!~nellcita@190.233.65.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :dont go < 1325714698 971555 :lax!~nellcita@190.233.65.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ive just have some minutes here < 1325714705 677532 :lax!~nellcita@190.233.65.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice to meet u here < 1325714708 284427 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1325714715 46495 :lax!~nellcita@190.233.65.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :im here < 1325714718 493147 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :me too < 1325714724 889428 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-141.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not < 1325714726 41704 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm here but not there. < 1325714729 856932 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :whch is also here < 1325714730 808654 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi. < 1325714743 399289 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-141.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hang on, one important question, lax. Do you live in a place called Hexham? < 1325714757 468394 :lax!~nellcita@190.233.65.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1325714763 382651 :lax!~nellcita@190.233.65.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why < 1325714768 131543 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-141.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Two of us here do < 1325714777 145567 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lax: helsinki then < 1325714790 557209 :lax!~nellcita@190.233.65.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i cant get what she says < 1325714798 571487 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lax: anywhere in Scandinavia perhaps? < 1325714806 538503 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is Ngevd female or am i < 1325714812 896509 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not even sure myself any more :( < 1325714826 259918 :lax!~nellcita@190.233.65.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :noooo < 1325714833 613573 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::'( < 1325714835 652786 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Everyone's always from either Hexinki or Helsham. < 1325714851 558042 :lax!~nellcita@190.233.65.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :im from peru < 1325714855 728712 :rapido!~rapido@89-60-215.ftth.xms.internl.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what about ternary logic? you don't have to be female or male < 1325714858 512849 :lax!~nellcita@190.233.65.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :south america < 1325714860 734858 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :peru is right next to finland i think < 1325714864 570861 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1325714869 413395 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :rapido: I didn't imply that :P < 1325714872 904772 :lax!~nellcita@190.233.65.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :noooo < 1325714880 793077 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :perussia < 1325714885 312650 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: mooz married someone from Peru, so in that sense at least. < 1325714891 334339 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Was it... lax? < 1325714904 934387 :lax!~nellcita@190.233.65.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my country < 1325714907 155851 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Not as far as I know, but I don't know much. < 1325714913 421917 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-141.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who's mooz? < 1325714922 657963 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lax: are you a fan of Immortal Technique? :> < 1325714927 769385 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: Just this one guy, you know? < 1325714931 818274 :lax!~nellcita@190.233.65.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliot? < 1325714934 753325 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lax: hi < 1325714936 62809 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm still here < 1325714942 972986 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't worry, i'll keep talking at least every 30 seconds so you know i'm here < 1325714945 883892 :lax!~nellcita@190.233.65.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :who is mooz < 1325714960 888439 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-141.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lax :Just this one guy, you know? < 1325714974 634959 :lax!~nellcita@190.233.65.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :im want to talk to eliott < 1325714976 62441 :lax!~nellcita@190.233.65.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not u < 1325714983 394871 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-141.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1325714985 936695 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-141.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am sad < 1325714994 889801 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lax: good choice, Ngevd sucks < 1325715001 197137 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Because a Cartesian tree is a binary tree, it is natural to use it as a binary search tree for an ordered sequence of values. " wow I'm genius < 1325715009 710969 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lax: not as bad as kallisti tho < 1325715025 200426 :lax!~nellcita@190.233.65.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i have to go eliott < 1325715029 127574 :lax!~nellcita@190.233.65.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice to meet u here < 1325715034 464501 :lax!~nellcita@190.233.65.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks for u time < 1325715036 798630 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`words 50 < 1325715039 419762 :rapido!~rapido@89-60-215.ftth.xms.internl.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometime i wonder if elliott is male, female and bimale - typing really fast at separate keyboards < 1325715040 277485 :lax!~nellcita@190.233.65.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :u seem to be nice < 1325715044 642385 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :cont attambennisco kra attrepla alopath ventanc mahata publi polar casecr suffer lough poplicat dinge lat piry mire ant koo elved poblynwan langorzah jump bad same aurvadher grimen bie mile amuant spansum woolgtenie portung suff pula colli pat pulsifer pohy prot deschl nic hesitio auerly slro ttr invoke idicla hot rage < 1325715049 198287 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: http://sbp.so/qsort (Also who on earth did that archive-page? Someone here?) < 1325715064 447616 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :rapido: as has been repeatedly established, i'm an amorphous, non-corporeal blob that lives on the internet < 1325715069 945785 :lax!~nellcita@190.233.65.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :God bless u aliott < 1325715073 599020 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :good bye lax < 1325715075 560559 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :come again sometime! < 1325715075 717109 :lax!~nellcita@190.233.65.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :take care < 1325715080 320707 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :god bless aliott america < 1325715086 6742 :lax!~nellcita@190.233.65.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dotn know how to use that chatt < 1325715091 440792 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :me neither < 1325715092 75389 :lax!~nellcita@190.233.65.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1325715095 924897 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just type words and they come out on the screen < 1325715097 924002 :lax!~nellcita@190.233.65.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i have email < 1325715103 206800 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh good, what's your email < 1325715115 606280 :lax!~nellcita@190.233.65.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nellcita@hotmail.com < 1325715125 752394 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :have fun!! < 1325715127 19795 :lax!~nellcita@190.233.65.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats the mail i use to chatt or facebook < 1325715129 495092 :lax!~nellcita@190.233.65.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1325715133 846111 :lax!~nellcita@190.233.65.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :same there < 1325715154 630153 :rapido!~rapido@89-60-215.ftth.xms.internl.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :do not - i repeat - do not reveal your email! you will be spammed < 1325715157 475434 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-141.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, so that's mooz < 1325715182 271114 :lax!~nellcita@190.233.65.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohhhh eliott < 1325715185 326638 :lax!~nellcita@190.233.65.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :u wotn do that < 1325715188 422724 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :rapido: you'll get spammed even if you don't :P < 1325715190 682682 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lax: don't worry < 1325715193 620452 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll protect you from the spambots < 1325715197 612566 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is... my duty < 1325715199 934743 :derdon!~derdon@p5DE8A9FE.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325715200 255623 :lax!~nellcita@190.233.65.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohh thanks < 1325715204 426458 :lax!~nellcita@190.233.65.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :loves from peru < 1325715209 423517 :lax!~nellcita@190.233.65.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and wellcome < 1325715224 36470 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell monqy hi < 1325715224 352852 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1325715226 799995 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: Indeed. He even was on-channel in 2003 or thereabouts. < 1325715236 951132 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-141.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, Before my time then. < 1325715243 357773 :lax!~nellcita@190.233.65.105 PART :#esoteric < 1325715246 758189 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You're such a... what's that term... "playa"? < 1325715246 955758 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have no idea what just happened < 1325715251 478398 :rapido!~rapido@89-60-215.ftth.xms.internl.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you protect me from spambots? where do i sign? < 1325715255 915684 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-141.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :2003, I was... using computers to write as many roman numerals as I could < 1325715266 870871 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :rapido: sorry, by invite only < 1325715298 232964 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/26/Kluft-photo-Black-Rock-Desert-Aug-2005-Img_5081.jpg <-- me < 1325715302 556712 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I was loling so hard < 1325715307 319051 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :through that conversation < 1325715322 391464 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: clearly a job for INTERCAL < 1325715478 155672 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: How does that syntax-highlighting work, anyway? < 1325715484 799520 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it's manual. < 1325715484 956002 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mu_(lost_continent) < 1325715487 339689 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh. cool < 1325715517 157267 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Genre Pseudoscience < 1325715638 308043 :rapido!~rapido@89-60-215.ftth.xms.internl.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :manual syntax highlighting: *do* it < 1325715654 713479 :rapido!~rapido@89-60-215.ftth.xms.internl.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do *it* < 1325715662 776733 :rapido!~rapido@89-60-215.ftth.xms.internl.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just do it < 1325715699 836520 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-141.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: Taneb cancelled playing Dwarf Fortress: Needs sleep < 1325715708 203745 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Ikluft is you? < 1325715715 984965 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :4do 3it < 1325715721 419989 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :PiRSquared17: wut < 1325715724 795721 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :PiRSquared17: no, why would it be? < 1325715733 825114 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/26/Kluft-photo-Black-Rock-Desert-Aug-2005-Img_5081.jpg <-- me < 1325715738 388629 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1325715738 544843 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1325715741 193321 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: You're such a... what's that term... "playa"? < 1325715743 692883 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a picture of a playa < 1325715748 552655 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1325715755 863201 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :PiRSquared17: finnmark finnmark finnmark finnmark finnmark finnmark < 1325715761 643206 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :FINNMARK < 1325715780 850759 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :finnmark < 1325715785 176154 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: :( < 1325715824 540177 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wiki spam influx < 1325715891 316484 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh dear, i think my lightbulb is about to break < 1325715914 919956 :rapido!~rapido@89-60-215.ftth.xms.internl.net QUIT :Quit: rapido < 1325715916 438325 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there enough elliotts to change it? < 1325715970 857706 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need @ < 1325716034 687780 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: wiki's being slow loading < 1325716309 306221 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, and deleted < 1325716324 327027 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, people who aren't using a monospace font, how does your client kern uTu? < 1325716340 271126 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks pretty weird on mine, the second u overlaps the bottom of the T, bu the first u doesn't < 1325716444 917621 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :same here, but I'm pretty sure that's correct < 1325716456 605640 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least, T after u is what's incorrect :) < 1325716494 162136 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hi I'm reading "On computable numbers with an application to the entscheidungsproblem" by Alan Turing. < 1325716494 638355 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arguably, that asymmetrical kerning is appropriate for camelCase < 1325716498 964864 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION getting his learn on. < 1325716650 221914 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Why would you read about computable numbers? < 1325716657 286335 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Practically all numbers are uncomputable. < 1325716691 615391 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: so he can entscheid properly, duh < 1325716768 851212 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote There.... is a box of Gardasil next to the butter in my fridge. At least my sandwich will be immune to cervical cancer *and* genital warts, I suppose. < 1325716771 987969 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :795) There.... is a box of Gardasil next to the butter in my fridge. At least my sandwich will be immune to cervical cancer *and* genital warts, I suppose. < 1325716813 503451 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, that is a good quote < 1325716815 567291 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1325716817 336670 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1325716818 605369 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1325716820 32980 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1325716821 501732 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1325716827 150344 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :356) Grr. Why does it exist? Why can't I kill it? < 1325716829 730733 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :569) elliott__: my fnord into normal life was a painful and difficult process. [...] < 1325716832 585984 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :413) so about jacuzzis, do they usually have a way to make it it not heat but freeze the water? < 1325716854 305105 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :413 is the best of those three < 1325716857 250127 :iconmaster!~iconmaste@cpe-74-79-18-174.twcny.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh result 413 < 1325716857 606811 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :iconmaster: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. < 1325716857 924546 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the other two are decent < 1325716865 616058 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :still waiting on two more < 1325716881 739806 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :747) Gregor is actually a rare species of mangoat the fashion sense comes from the mango part < 1325716881 896617 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :45) It looks like my hairs are too fat. Can you help me split them? < 1325716894 12206 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: 45? < 1325716900 991357 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey that's a classic! < 1325716914 556285 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :gives such a nostalgic feeling < 1325716917 969549 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it a /good/ classic? < 1325716918 128414 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1325716924 970383 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :747 is fairly lame < 1325716935 994371 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swats elliott -----### < 1325716940 474353 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i knew that would happen < 1325716967 392947 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott the cassandra < 1325716968 66897 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I saw the mangoat quote live < 1325716973 502333 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: sorry, as a COMPUTER science major I'm only interesting in the COMPUTERable ones. < 1325716983 144474 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: indeed, but it's one of oerjan's better puns < 1325716985 210533 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though that's "practically none" of them. < 1325716986 754675 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't see it coming < 1325716993 346374 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`delquote 747 < 1325716997 746855 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​*poof* Gregor is actually a rare species of mangoat the fashion sense comes from the mango part < 1325716998 379747 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just not as funny as the others sory < 1325717009 11742 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1325717009 964356 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1325717010 122836 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1325717010 480542 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1325717010 798331 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA < 1325717011 749771 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1325717020 882765 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :309) oerjan: are you in an aware state when the only hammer you have is for variable assignation and blocks < 1325717024 831402 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :641) fizzie: it doesn't *use* raw cgi. to my deep fnord i'm only fnord of the job description. it's badly fnord also. < 1325717051 78312 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i just this second realised what "fungot" means < 1325717051 270907 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: in a good way though, so it's the left-right eye. you say yeah, but hang it on your wall. literally. < 1325717067 83289 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: wait, for the first time? < 1325717074 767128 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, unless i knew and then forgot < 1325717090 824890 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :37) kaelis: yes kaelis, but however will get the horses to wear knickers? < 1325717090 983328 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :77) It's not incest if you're third cousins! < 1325717091 301126 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :133) what's the data of? [...] Locations in a now deceased game called Mutation I have no problems with you being interested in online games but the necrophilia is disturbing < 1325717093 244101 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what does it mean? < 1325717114 902473 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: funge bot < 1325717121 171739 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, right, I knew that < 1325717125 706947 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`delquote 37 < 1325717131 699592 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​*poof* kaelis: yes kaelis, but however will get the horses to wear knickers? < 1325717132 16642 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1325717132 173502 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm apparently there are people named fungot < 1325717132 329535 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: the stuff scattered about your room. you of course it was a nasty pair, but he had already been a mass grave. the grisly abomination for your birthday. a number of interests. < 1325717146 318166 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Funge-98 Bot" is even the realname of eir Twitter account. < 1325717161 195067 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: And the name of the git repo interface thing, IIRC. I just never... made the connection. < 1325717178 993600 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh, I'd known it was funge bot all along, and your sudden realisation made me doubt that < 1325717186 290797 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you know the etymology behind thutubot's name, btw? < 1325717200 535512 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-133.vpn.utu.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1325717202 714553 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It's because e's such a FUN guy it crowds out then FUNGy part. < 1325717218 179462 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/then/the/ < 1325717227 945512 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: let me think... < 1325717230 5856 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thutu + bot? < 1325717233 420386 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1325717234 230708 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION follows fungot on twitter < 1325717234 411720 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: that is a winner's attitude, and there is no particularly good human translation for this concept. a concept usually denoted by a single, linear concept. a concept usually denoted by a single, linear concept. a concept usually denoted by a single, linear concept. a concept usually denoted by a single, linear concept. a concept usually denoted by a single, linear concept. a concept usually denoted by a single, linear con < 1325717236 238981 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :gasp!!! < 1325717247 988682 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :?messages < 1325717248 305795 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21 said 13d 16h 2m 2s ago: welcome back < 1325717248 464639 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21 said 13d 16h 1m 10s ago: it was funny for me at the time since you were joining and leaving at a high rate. but the joke has expired < 1325717248 620934 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan said 10d 13h 1m 54s ago: btw, fmap' shows that T is also a contravariant functor in its first argument. < 1325717255 964781 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :?messages < 1325717256 123786 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't have any new messages. < 1325717264 715578 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :?messages < 1325717264 873752 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't have any new messages. < 1325717265 826287 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to restart that Twitter script one day. < 1325717287 463695 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: haskell quiz of the day: can any data type be given both a valid Functor and a valid Contrafunctor instance? < 1325717298 822380 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: lambdabot is supposed to only show them once, but there's some weird resetting going on occasionally... < 1325717304 215861 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is one of those quizzes where I don't know the answer, and want to find out. < 1325717318 600773 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :its last tweet was twat in May, apparently < 1325717319 553509 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: data T a = T hth < 1325717331 497513 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed fizzie needs to restart the script < 1325717346 368642 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even data T a b = T a < 1325717350 82420 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could try if it has bitrotted away right now. < 1325717402 661623 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hmm... i think that might violate the laws when _|_ is involved < 1325717408 520197 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least, data T a = T isn't a monad if you count bottoms < 1325717497 591920 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's possible Twitter's authentication API changed and broke it, and that's why I haven't restarted. < 1325717535 284163 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: They're OAuth-only these days, I think. < 1325717538 624423 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: who said anything about monad < 1325717547 620174 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fmap = id, simply < 1325717559 485034 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok that doesn't quite type < 1325717569 360389 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fmap (T x) = T x < 1325717578 663169 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_< < 1325717582 89791 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fmap _ (T x) = T x < 1325717602 2893 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well monads are functors, I was just giving an analogy... < 1325717611 634072 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, fmap = const unsafeCeoerce :P < 1325717613 419441 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Coerce < 1325717622 923500 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that also works < 1325717655 490683 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fsvo work < 1325717670 885909 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but to have a Functor, you just need that all appearances of the last parameter are in covariant, nonstrict positions afaict < 1325717680 583341 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if there are none, it's trivial < 1325717704 651011 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and for Contrafunctor, probably the same but with contravariant < 1325717719 58891 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ok one that actually mentions a /and/ b on the RHS :P < 1325717725 89641 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no cheating by outsourcing to your existing T! < 1325717729 690414 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :funny guy < 1325717733 733461 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well then i don't know < 1325717762 825807 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :join the club! (the club is mine) < 1325717787 18689 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION joins elliott's club. < 1325717841 676848 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a stipend associated with this club? < 1325717851 997325 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i doubt there are any with simple ADTs, though < 1325717927 764412 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: 1,000,000 pounds per day or however much you can afford < 1325717938 205797 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i don't see how gadts would help < 1325717949 198194 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get paid however much I can afford? < 1325717989 888625 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well i imagined if there is some way to hide the type so it isn't exposed, analogous to show . read ... < 1325718012 742299 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, fungot twat again! https://twitter.com/#!/fungot/status/154697756248776705 < 1325718012 901703 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: that is a winner's attitude, and there is no particularly good human translation for this concept. a concept usually denoted by a single, linear concept. a concept usually denoted by a single, linear concept. a concept usually denoted by a single, linear concept. a concept usually denoted by a single, linear concept. a concept usually denoted by a single, linear concept. a concept usually denoted by a single, linear con < 1325718029 298052 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, that's the exact same thing it said last time < 1325718033 831734 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot < 1325718033 990540 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: you really wish your side. < 1325718046 397211 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Will it tweet with its fungot dataset too? :p < 1325718046 576178 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the one who got you killed him for it? < 1325718053 21018 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :I... don't think there's any practical limit to the amount of money I can afford to be paid. < 1325718088 283023 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the way it works is that if you have lots of money you get lots of money, if you have no money you get no money < 1325718105 987188 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see. < 1325718109 745720 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Oh, I was thinking of tithes. < 1325718116 247562 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-152-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shame, too. I can afford to be paid any positive stipend. < 1325718119 344859 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :like data T a b c = T (a -> c) (c -> b) but where you cannot actually get at the pieces < 1325718119 701922 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I... er... congratulations, you have unlimited money! < 1325718140 569327 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Excellent. < 1325718148 434513 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: which pieces? c or (a,b)? < 1325718156 465362 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the fields < 1325718163 299533 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :c < 1325718172 500990 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: data T a b where T :: (a -> c) -> (c -> b) -> T a b? < 1325718172 975872 :iconmaster!~iconmaste@cpe-74-79-18-174.twcny.res.rr.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1325718174 896819 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Not yet, but maybe soon. < 1325718178 828351 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoy, it works. < 1325718180 790887 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ./twungot-poster.py fungot.json < 1325718180 955278 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :[2012-01-05 00:56:34] Tweeted: About NetHack: of this town. in one hand he held his court. these chosen ones will defend the land, is described in snorri's _edda_ as... (fungot) < 1325718180 955489 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: so, you give up, jade is my slime tube and this is a new game. there is a heavy amount of time i will say you are only here to deliver a message and then i'll put his shit up? < 1325718181 111812 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: you will be taking that crowbar though rare, is quite a troubling development primed for the digestive ruination that's about to take is the ultimate riddle. < 1325718194 801476 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no, the c _should_ still be the type parameter < 1325718200 369366 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a good moment to sleep. -> < 1325718209 515417 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you want it existential but exposed? < 1325718223 999068 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: oh, fungot twat again! https://twitter.com/#!/fungot/status/154697756248776705 < 1325718224 159091 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: to be honest, it doesn't exist in a state of almost perpetual stalemate, and expands to a larger board and more exotic collection of what he refers to as a thermal hull, instead of some kind of clock pun. no, dammit, will this breakfast injure his shrill, bearded, scraggly old men in space. jade's radioactive, omnipotent, space-warping dog named... < 1325718236 843162 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i have no idea if it makes sense in any way < 1325718257 369479 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well what's the eliminator? < 1325718276 861262 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :How long as fungot been set to Homestuck? < 1325718277 17888 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: your modus grabs, who wants it back. it keeps happening. you seem to have a knack for always guessing right on the first try! r3l4t1v3 to my pr3s3nt to r3m4rk of r34ssur4nc3! < 1325718277 17981 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote elliott: to be honest, it doesn't exist in a state of almost perpetual stalemate, and expands to a larger board and more exotic collection of what he refers to as a thermal hull, instead of some kind of clock pun. no, dammit, will this breakfast injure his shrill, bearded, scraggly old men in space. jade's radioactive, omnipotent, space-warping dog named... < 1325718277 174554 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what, the last one. wait no, that just made you disappear" and stuff. this is just the sort of human profanity? < 1325718280 192852 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :794) elliott: to be honest, it doesn't exist in a state of almost perpetual stalemate, and expands to a larger board and more exotic collection of what he refers to as a thermal hull, instead of some kind of clock pun. no, dammit, will this breakfast injure his shrill, bearded, scraggly old men in space. jade's radioactive, omnipotent, space-warping dog named... < 1325718319 808432 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: DO YOU P4Y 4NY 4TT3NT1ON TO TH3 STUFF P3OPL3 S4Y TO YOU? < 1325718320 5216 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: for a while it was frustrating. edification. perfection. those are your favorite books of all time, wise, a distinction in men that would forever. how many metalayers removed this story can we just cut it in half, splitting it into two pieces in the two large screens. < 1325718335 320662 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOP3, 1 GU3SS NOT. >:| < 1325718674 540015 :NihilistDandy!~NihilistD@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1325718688 156846 :NihilistDandy!~NihilistD@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325718699 108667 :NihilistDandy!~NihilistD@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net QUIT :Client Quit < 1325718993 91802 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :?messages < 1325718993 250496 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't have any new messages. < 1325719054 270427 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325719064 306871 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :messages < 1325719152 760505 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/8735132/can-a-php-file-ever-be-read-externally < 1325719178 906813 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I found some document of a chess variant, there are four players and the board rotates after every move pair. You have to use divination to determine the direction of rotation. Whenever there is a pawn promotion, you have to bow and make secret hand signs and use cards to determine what you promote to. In case there are two candidates for a winner at the end of the game, use divination to determine which is the winner. The winner can have the k < 1325719191 815202 :DCliche!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325719218 408942 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The winner can have the k" < 1325719225 123200 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ing's ice cream. < 1325719292 127188 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are many methods of divination listed, including: chiromancy, astrology, dowsing, using knucklebones marked with letters of the alphabet, and divination by interpreting the movements of a key suspended by a thread from the nail of the third finger on a young virgin's hand while one of the Psalms was recited. < 1325719317 908811 :NihilistDandy!~NihilistD@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325719340 669709 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Tea leaves is also one of the choices, in case you like to drink tea a lot while playing chess.) < 1325719370 725447 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hm i have a sort of vague idea of how you could make that nest stuff polymorphic < 1325719372 864931 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1325719374 293462 :DCliche!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net NICK :Klisz < 1325719396 648313 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: the idea is that inEndo would apply an infinite /stream/ of appEndo < 1325719402 581799 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and each one would be used for one argument < 1325719408 927512 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the types never get unified < 1325719417 257826 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofc the problem there is how to get that infinite heterogeneous stream expressed... < 1325719537 173802 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :?messages < 1325719537 333452 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't have any new messages. < 1325719762 651390 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: "Not opening the PHP file with let nest (o,os) = result (k os) . argument o then? < 1325720559 298101 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : : parse error on input `then' < 1325720576 290326 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t let nest (o,os) = result (k os) . argument o in nest < 1325720577 121418 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `t -> a -> b' < 1325720577 280098 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred type `Expr' < 1325720577 438883 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : In the first argument of `result', namely `(k os)' < 1325720583 74710 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah < 1325720599 13821 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :inEndo :: ((forall a. t -> (a -> a) -> Endo a) -> (forall a. Endo a -> a -> a) -> r) -> r < 1325720601 69810 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn this almost works :P < 1325720614 880853 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well i don't see how you could define an inEndo for that... < 1325720624 443861 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hmm < 1325720625 909631 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t let nest k (o,os) = result (k os) . argument o in nest < 1325720626 544334 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall t a b (f :: * -> *) a1. (Functor f) => (t -> a -> b) -> (f a1, t) -> (a1 -> a) -> f b < 1325720628 962077 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd need a typeclass for inEndo itself < 1325720634 143089 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that kind of works I guess :/ < 1325720642 295715 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes, that was what i thought < 1325720754 368708 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :inEndo seems like the right place to have one if you must < 1325720811 697218 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map return "hi" < 1325720812 489346 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (GHC.Show.Show (m GHC.Types.Char)) < 1325720812 647690 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use of... < 1325720824 59892 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map return "hi" :: [String] < 1325720824 851727 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ["h","i"] < 1325720837 667507 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yeah :/ < 1325720846 243093 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hm wait < 1325720859 332606 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :never mind < 1325720886 417736 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION → sleep < 1325720889 482911 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1325720976 153984 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTOIN < 1325720983 116933 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1325721012 649324 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :actoin < 1325721014 396188 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CHUCK_NORRIS < 1325721034 562737 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let pal alphabet = []:map (:[]) alphabet >- (\c -> map (\e -> e : c ++ [e]) alphabet) in pal "abc" --oopse < 1325721035 238332 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: `>-' < 1325721036 564161 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unknown CTCP: CHUCK_NORRIS?! < 1325721047 607432 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let pal alphabet = []:map (:[]) alphabet >>- (\c -> map (\e -> e : c ++ [e]) alphabet) in pal "abc" --oopse < 1325721049 260511 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ["","aaa","aba","bab","aca","cac","bbb","bcb","cbc","ccc"] < 1325721057 426854 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm nope < 1325721127 707843 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let pal alphabet = join . iterate (>>- (\c -> map (\e -> e : c ++ [e]) alphabet) in pal "abc") $ [] :map (:[]) alphabet < 1325721128 407010 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : : parse error on input `in' < 1325721143 656264 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let pal alphabet = join . iterate (>>- (\c -> map (\e -> e : c ++ [e]) alphabet) $ [] :map (:[]) alphabet in pal "abc" < 1325721144 450051 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : : parse error on input `in' < 1325721167 24720 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let pal alphabet = join . iterate (>>- (\c -> map (\e -> e : c ++ [e]) alphabet)) $ [] :map (:[]) alphabet in pal "abc" < 1325721168 492555 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ["","a","b","c","aa","aaa","bb","aba","cc","bab","aca","cac","bbb","bcb","c... < 1325721189 893339 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let pal alphabet = join . iterate (>>= (\c -> map (\e -> e : c ++ [e]) alphabet)) $ [] :map (:[]) alphabet in pal "abc" < 1325721191 398693 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ["","a","b","c","aa","bb","cc","aaa","bab","cac","aba","bbb","cbc","aca","b... < 1325721197 863541 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah don't need >>- < 1325721209 155701 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :for finite alphabets maybe :) < 1325721214 16222 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, true. < 1325721215 917736 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Do you think it should be legal for a man to marry his cat, so that the cat gets health benefits and the man gets a tax deduction? < 1325721228 250501 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, if I were zzo38 I'd have said that without the attribution < 1325721257 424 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway that code looks kind of ugly to me. < 1325721384 454602 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> sequence . return $ [1,2,3] < 1325721385 882588 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [[1],[2],[3]] < 1325721856 545477 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let pal alphabet = join . iterate (>>- (\c -> map (\e -> e : c ++ [e]) alphabet)) $ [] : map (:[]) alphabet in pal [0..] < 1325721857 971588 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [[],[0],[1],[2],[3],[4],[5],[6],[7],[8],[9],[10],[11],[12],[13],[14],[15],[... < 1325721901 137899 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1325722040 247338 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let pal alphabet = (>>- id) . iterate (>>- (\c -> map (\e -> e : c ++ [e]) alphabet)) $ [] : map (:[]) alphabet in pal [0..] < 1325722041 832833 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [[],[0,0],[0],[0,0,0,0],[1],[0,0,0],[2],[0,0,0,0,0,0],[3],[1,1],[4],[0,0,0,... < 1325722065 1885 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: aha i think i might have figured out a way < 1325722092 89610 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm I don't know how to rewrite the map so that it's logicy... < 1325722112 18293 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: NO WAI < 1325722187 986724 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it uses a type family per inEndo thing though so it's not really any better < 1325722211 736752 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map return [1,2,3] >>= (+1) < 1325722212 528528 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (GHC.Num.Num [a]) < 1325722212 845505 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use of `e_11231' at ) = inEndo (nest.nest) (<*>) < 1325722311 313589 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map return [1,2,3] >>= (>>= (+1)) < 1325722312 105697 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (GHC.Num.Num [b]) < 1325722312 264654 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use of `e_11231' at map return [1,2,3] >>= map (+1) < 1325722399 661467 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [2,3,4] < 1325722472 350485 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let pal alphabet = (>>- id) . iterate (>>- (\c -> map return alphabet >>- map (\e -> e : c ++ [e])) $ [] : map return alphabet in pal [0..] < 1325722473 47714 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : : parse error on input `in' < 1325722483 150917 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let pal alphabet = (>>- id) . iterate (>>- (\c -> map return alphabet >>- map (\e -> e : c ++ [e]))) $ [] : map return alphabet in pal [0..] < 1325722484 417386 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [[],[0,0],[0],[0,0,0,0],[1],[0,0,0],[2],[0,0,0,0,0,0],[3],[1,1],[4],[0,0,0,... < 1325722519 453625 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea if that completely covers every conjunction. < 1325722661 927437 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-19-212.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://images.4chan.org/v/src/1325721816987.jpg < 1325722702 204025 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :are those... marshmellows? :P < 1325722718 82172 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to guess it's some kind of cheese. < 1325723082 829101 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1325723198 994204 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi Phantom_Hoover < 1325723213 605788 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :MDude: Those had BETTER be marshmallows. < 1325723247 955456 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-19-212.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doof, I posted in the wrong channel. < 1325723353 154666 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :MDude: I'm not sure saying anything in this channel can count as wrong. < 1325723391 249582 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1325723810 593854 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ...that is a patently wrong statement. < 1325723836 328465 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really? < 1325723845 695202 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are so many ways to be wrong it's truly staggering. < 1325723848 270618 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is staggered. < 1325723861 290370 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but not wrong in your choice of channel. < 1325723908 542110 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh < 1325723972 382662 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1325724014 844476 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> ['a'..] < 1325724015 638243 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz{|}~\DEL\128\129\130\131\132\133\134\135\136\137... < 1325724023 613407 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> ['A'..] < 1325724024 405975 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ[\\]^_`abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz{|}~\DEL\128\12... < 1325724105 388201 :lahwran!lahwran@unaffiliated/lahwran PRIVMSG #esoteric :I made a rather ... interesting input < 1325724110 282661 :lahwran!lahwran@unaffiliated/lahwran PRIVMSG #esoteric :on my bot's brainfuck interpreter < 1325724113 295610 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t with < 1325724114 127568 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `with' < 1325724115 869278 :lahwran!lahwran@unaffiliated/lahwran PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's quiet fun < 1325724119 672827 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t in < 1325724120 307175 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :parse error on input `in' < 1325724137 536870 :lahwran!lahwran@unaffiliated/lahwran PRIVMSG #esoteric :.bf < 1325724141 611591 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> maxBound :: Char < 1325724142 403677 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : '\1114111' < 1325724156 852462 :lahwran!lahwran@unaffiliated/lahwran PRIVMSG #esoteric :mind if I bring it in here for a minute? < 1325724175 867058 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :bots in here? perish the thought! < 1325724182 800002 :crow3!lahwran@sonicrules.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1325724184 579266 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's quiet I don't see why not. < 1325724188 782445 :lahwran!lahwran@unaffiliated/lahwran PRIVMSG #esoteric :.bf ,[.,] < 1325724189 258906 :crow3!lahwran@sonicrules.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :lahwran: please use this feature in ##crow. < 1325724195 542434 :lahwran!lahwran@unaffiliated/lahwran PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, people were spamming it < 1325724203 779343 :crow3!lahwran@sonicrules.org PART :#esoteric < 1325724206 869424 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1325724252 79710 :crow3!lahwran@sonicrules.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1325724254 554249 :lahwran!lahwran@unaffiliated/lahwran PRIVMSG #esoteric :.bf ,[.,] < 1325724255 29274 :crow3!lahwran@sonicrules.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :lahwran: Teree I was, ling n my bed with myriidcock in m hand. Iyy wife depthroating my cok while her shoping udddy lickd could barley wal bt with her hlp I manged myway. We entese Tabbby suckng onher fingers.. "ou mightt like thhis insught and managed to lift me up witout poppiing out of meand fit, he presse aainst my knees, aiing me spread thee as fr his hand. I cold feel hhi liipss smile as hhe traied away frt o cum." ""Mmm m < 1325724256 653529 :lahwran!lahwran@unaffiliated/lahwran PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1325724262 875403 :crow3!lahwran@sonicrules.org PART :#esoteric < 1325724276 659161 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1325724287 482187 :lahwran!lahwran@unaffiliated/lahwran PRIVMSG #esoteric :it randomly samples from a corpus of text porn. < 1325724287 640559 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: standard cat program, what's the problem? < 1325724294 386144 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh good < 1325724298 905933 :lahwran!lahwran@unaffiliated/lahwran PRIVMSG #esoteric :and feeds that to the input of brainfuck < 1325724344 512105 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : Yes, but not wrong in your choice of channel. <-- WOULD YOU LIKE TO RETRACT THIS STATEMENT NOW? < 1325724426 741599 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no? okay then. < 1325724472 74237 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :4 < 1325724497 2777 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: wat < 1325724512 69441 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oerjan grate joke < 1325724525 38 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha ha (ha) < 1325724612 888079 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: how dare you call my jokes grating -----### < 1325724633 428654 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :very greating < 1325724694 580291 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> length ['a'..] < 1325724695 371658 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1114015 < 1325724706 324010 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :how... infinite < 1325724737 311947 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm wondering if I need that many >>-'s in my program... < 1325724766 645091 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let pal alphabet = (>>- id) . iterate (>>= (\c -> map return alphabet >>= map (\e -> e : c ++ [e]))) $ [] : map return alphabet in pal ['a'..] < 1325724767 983783 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ["","aa","a","aaaa","b","bb","c","aaaaaa","d","cc","e","baab","f","dd","g",... < 1325724801 759056 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the outer one seems to be enough??? < 1325724916 571150 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (>>-) < 1325724917 521622 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (m :: * -> *) a b. (MonadLogic m) => m a -> (a -> m b) -> m b < 1325724933 905689 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle (MonadLogic m) => m (m a) -> m a < 1325724934 452026 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warning: Unknown class MonadLogic < 1325724934 610414 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Monad join :: Monad m => m (m a) -> m a < 1325724934 766549 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Test.QuickCheck.Property joinRose :: Rose (Rose a) -> Rose a < 1325724939 165794 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah < 1325724953 789160 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>- id < 1325724957 56975 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :MonadLogic still require Monad as well < 1325724974 628022 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: duh that's what i started from < 1325724975 577625 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I saw its description < 1325725045 393534 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl map return f >>= map g < 1325725045 587449 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :map g =<< map return f < 1325725053 691278 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl fmap return f >>= fmap g < 1325725053 889478 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fmap g =<< fmap return f < 1325725057 60957 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah < 1325725071 171120 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :newtype Logic a = Logic a < 1325725086 100299 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :instance (MonadLogic a) => Monad (Logic a) where ... < 1325725087 846919 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :??? < 1325725095 416808 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hmmm MonadLogic doesn't define return I think. < 1325725106 406200 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you don't define MonadLogic by >>- you use msplit and then >>- and everything else derived from that, I found the information. < 1325725124 267071 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t msplit < 1325725124 584485 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is a Haskell package for that < 1325725125 60100 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (m :: * -> *) a. (MonadLogic m) => m a -> m (Maybe (a, m a)) < 1325725246 822847 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: you don't need >>- unless the right argument function can generate an infinite list < 1325725281 182511 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-133.vpn.utu.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1325725332 238494 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I am doing groundbreaking research into PALINDROME SEQUENCES ON INFINITE ALPHABETS. < 1325725477 385089 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1325725789 425865 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :palindromes are core to my research hcraeser ym ot eroc era semordnillap < 1325726127 625103 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1325727394 982463 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-152-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sick be why < 1325727398 192760 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-152-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :body bad feel < 1325727402 243106 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-152-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :me like no < 1325727407 588342 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1325727450 549024 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-152-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :me english write notation polish reverse using < 1325727708 415966 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-19-212.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1325728065 724716 :MSleep!~fyrc@or-67-238-19-212.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325728644 267912 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1325728685 615011 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1325728790 804059 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good day < 1325728901 916193 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :good day < 1325728917 234755 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good afternoon! < 1325728965 390008 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@222.122.156.78 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good morning. < 1325728975 52240 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good evening!! < 1325729081 938014 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What other kind of indexed monads and indexed comonads are there, other than the ones I have been told and figured out? < 1325729179 376409 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I figured out some which are indexed monads and ordinary comonads, and some which are ordinary monads and indexed comonads, but is there some which is both indexed monad and indexed comonad? < 1325729236 304330 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly! < 1325729240 466090 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not know. < 1325729576 358472 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :newtype IxWriter c x y z = IxWriter { runIxWriter :: (c x y, z) }; newtype IxReader c x y z = IxReader { runIxReader :: c x y -> z }; newtype IxState x y z = IxState { runIxState :: x -> (z, y) }; < 1325729591 826389 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :IxWriter and IxState is indexed monad, and IxReader is indexed comonad. < 1325729629 667109 :MSleep!~fyrc@or-67-238-19-212.dhcp.embarqhsd.net NICK :MDude < 1325729721 218395 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But c has to be a category for working indexed monad of IxWriter, and indexed comonad of IxReader. < 1325730605 362792 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-19-212.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh, that AttoASM thing seems nice. < 1325730741 349534 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-19-212.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Always good to have another minimalistic virtual/real machine. < 1325730747 264106 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-152-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel like I've had a few drinks. Which is pretty weird considering that I haven't. < 1325730913 770496 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: maybe you have and forgot?? < 1325730919 220846 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :MDude: yeah it looks cool < 1325730945 797026 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-152-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I sure hope not. < 1325730954 880662 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-152-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alcohol and paracetamol blend poorly. < 1325731027 119075 :derdon!~derdon@p5DE8A9FE.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1325731157 67415 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: that's my favourite drink < 1325731161 372356 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :alcohol + liquid paracetamol! < 1325731167 862042 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-152-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel sorry for your liver. < 1325731207 239568 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do Kleisli morphisms for a indexed monad have to belong to a indexed category? < 1325731222 947261 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or to anything else similar to a category at all? < 1325731245 851887 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: That's what the doctor said. < 1325731256 836487 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: i wish i could answer your interesting questions but i cannot :( < 1325732001 732853 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`lastlog fmap\^ < 1325732005 40219 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :lastlog: unexpected argument: fmap\^ \ Usage: lastlog [options] \ \ Options: \ -b, --before DAYS print only lastlog records older than DAYS \ -h, --help display this help message and exit \ -t, --time DAYS print only lastlog records more recent than DAYS \ -u, --user LOGIN print lastlog record of the specified LOGIN \ < 1325732051 368382 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastlog fmap\^ < 1325732058 87805 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log fmap\^.*3 < 1325732082 600644 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1325732096 235154 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1325732315 980233 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t fmap fmap fmap < 1325732316 931999 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (f :: * -> *) a b (f1 :: * -> *). (Functor f, Functor f1) => (a -> b) -> f (f1 a) -> f (f1 b) < 1325732317 762194 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t fmap fmap fmap fmap < 1325732318 593734 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (f :: * -> *) (f1 :: * -> *) a b (f2 :: * -> *). (Functor f, Functor f1, Functor f2) => f (f1 (a -> b)) -> f (f1 (f2 a -> f2 b)) < 1325732319 544908 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t fmap fmap fmap fmap fmap < 1325732320 347777 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a (f :: * -> *) a1 b. (Functor f) => (a1 -> b) -> (a -> a1) -> f a -> f b < 1325732324 304824 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t fmap fmap fmap fmap fmap fmap < 1325732325 97294 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a (f :: * -> *) a1 b (f1 :: * -> *). (Functor f, Functor f1) => (a -> a1 -> b) -> f a -> f (f1 a1 -> f1 b) < 1325732327 232657 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t fmap fmap fmap fmap fmap fmap fmap < 1325732327 907274 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (f :: * -> *) (f1 :: * -> *) a b (f2 :: * -> *). (Functor f, Functor f1, Functor f2) => f (a -> b) -> f (f1 (f2 a) -> f1 (f2 b)) < 1325732349 873629 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :bleh, I forgot the pattern completely < 1325732865 405904 :DCliche!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325732994 774852 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1325736514 822465 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-19-212.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1325736714 58091 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have the Impossible Physics book. < 1325736959 160330 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-19-212.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325736962 116617 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-19-212.dhcp.embarqhsd.net NICK :MSleep < 1325737857 894411 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, I made it using De Bruijn macros. < 1325738641 183073 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-117.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325738658 936022 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-152-218.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1325738748 910319 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I noticed that my token expansion function seems comonadic; it is of type (ProgramState -> [Token]) and [Token] is the type of one of the fields of ProgramState. < 1325739948 215456 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, may I ask? < 1325740254 757971 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You may ask nothing. < 1325740257 172189 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(What?) < 1325740310 461300 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: no < 1325740559 73584 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro stands up for American values once again. < 1325740677 850384 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-117.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Real American values, no less. < 1325741754 163960 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 QUIT :Quit: bye < 1325742238 534811 :NihilistDandy!~NihilistD@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/Spnac.jpg < 1325742535 8642 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd click it < 1325742669 856428 :iamcal!u1110@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hllmxxhlpazharqv JOIN :#esoteric < 1325743296 71980 :NihilistDandy!~NihilistD@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1325745175 123089 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Help, what do I do if I broke causality? < 1325745383 715325 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1325745554 925089 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1325746011 839664 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1325746122 329588 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1325746223 273971 :DCliche!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: SLEEP, GLORIOUS SLEEP < 1325746501 476024 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: just cause it to be causal. < 1325746527 363408 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :then time becomes a loop then time becomes a loop then time becomes a loop < 1325746553 127349 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QER_yqTcmjM < 1325746757 537544 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :unsbosbo < 1325746983 713733 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: this thing is always 1 second away from breaking out into a remix < 1325748096 269986 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just had another silly idea < 1325748129 245024 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in this case i think it would be best written with ORK < 1325748137 786779 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a Tailor object < 1325748162 744557 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what this Tailor does is create clothes for a humanoid 3d model < 1325748187 623734 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like an artificial intelligence model of a fashion designer < 1325748230 634292 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i only mention ORK since it seems to give human qualities to it's objects < 1325748514 974292 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1325748538 843947 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nevermind. carry on :-D < 1325748910 166396 :fizziew!~htkallas@unaffiliated/fizzie QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1325750079 818754 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: yo should i sleep < 1325750236 941631 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :bounce loop! < 1325750385 133220 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Sleep is good for you. < 1325750404 836925 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a bounce loop in programming? < 1325750490 959388 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean in any language, including esoteric < 1325750659 517787 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depends what you mean by that. < 1325750698 199420 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you mean a forwards-backwards-etcetera sort of loop, many languages with an instruction pointer with a modifiable direction might qualify. E.g. Befunge >.....<. < 1325750746 809407 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you mean "computes by using bounced email messages somehow", that's a bit less probable maybe. < 1325750768 123628 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you mean something related to pogo sticks, then that's just weird. < 1325750779 606765 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie++ < 1325750869 667388 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :yaaay for weeeeird :D < 1325750905 415684 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though. Well it basically goes in one direction, once it reaches the end, it starts going back in the opposite direction and once it reaches some condition, it can "bounce" from it and basically repeat < 1325750917 589608 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I mean it as natural construct, no emulation < 1325750951 124769 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's quite a natural construct in Unefunge. < 1325750968 448582 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Far more natural than something that'd just loop unidirectionally. < 1325750981 166079 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Frooxius: the instruction pointer proceeds in only one direction as far as i am aware < 1325750985 235908 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it has to be emulated surely < 1325751006 537443 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: well the point is, that in some languages it doesn't proceed in one direction < 1325751008 913209 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know this for certain < 1325751019 263003 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: oh thanks < 1325751034 480277 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, the instruction fetch cycle on most cpus is probably unidirectional < 1325751039 333985 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll have a look at Unefunge < 1325751046 751412 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just Befunge on one line. :p < 1325751069 655387 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :> anycodehere _ in Unefunge is a "bounce loop" like that, with the right end a "pop from stack; if zero, continue on; if nonzero, start going backwards", while the left end is an unconditional "flip back". < 1325751070 773021 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : : parse error on input `in' < 1325751080 201742 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot: Can't you tell Befunge from Haskell? < 1325751093 324141 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: we're on esoteric languages forums. There's no such thing as "most CPUs" :P *giggles* < 1325751120 798798 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd need something complicated like >#; anycodehere #;_ to make a non-bouncy loop. < 1325751149 972822 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I think valid Haskell wouldn't have given you an error message. < 1325751157 513980 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whereas Befunge did. < 1325751166 769920 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that would indicate that lambdabot can tell Befunge from Haskell. < 1325751171 224150 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, yes, if you want to be all *technical* about it. < 1325751174 946516 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell/Befunge polyglot? < 1325751210 176898 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: In the case that your program is both valid Befunge and valid Haskell, lambdabot will default to treating it as Haskell. < 1325751306 672597 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :> "I default to Haskell" -- 025*"egnufeB ot tluafed I">:#,_@ < 1325751307 464192 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "I default to Haskell" < 1325751311 742761 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You seem to be correct. < 1325751320 482315 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(What a surprise!) < 1325751368 543760 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh no, I need to be photographed. -> < 1325751430 894421 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The folks responsible for our keycards were all "you should've been given one with a photo years ago instead of keeping this ancient 'visitor' card" when I went to complain it stopped working over the year-change.) < 1325751708 900861 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey shachaf. < 1325751714 117106 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sameKey :: Key a -> Key b -> Maybe (Equal a b) < 1325751714 272923 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sameKey (Key k) (Key k') < 1325751714 429790 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : | k == k' = Just $ unsafeCoerce Refl < 1325751714 429870 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : | otherwise = Nothing < 1325752003 480878 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I shouldn't eat and watch QI at the same time < 1325752030 231966 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is a Refl? < 1325752050 185539 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something that can be coerced into an Equal a b I guess < 1325752068 675364 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey elliott. < 1325752072 82021 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Helliott < 1325752080 660994 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because that's what being in an IRC channel with you is like. < 1325752112 789248 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Yes. < 1325752117 543797 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: data Equal a b where Refl :: Equal a a < 1325752126 924285 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, unsafeCoerce Refl? < 1325752196 424595 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Does it reassure you if I told you the Key constructor isn't exported? < 1325752236 594056 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that given the other part of the API, < 1325752239 682403 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder whether asking for more context will change my attitude toward life for the positive or the negative. < 1325752242 918950 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :newKey :: IO (Key a) < 1325752249 428612 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no constructors, you can implement: < 1325752252 650424 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Locker < 1325752256 254038 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lock :: Key a -> a -> Locker < 1325752261 777077 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :unlock :: Key a -> Locker -> Maybe a < 1325752346 138548 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: The actual context is Vault. < 1325752371 52992 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Specifically, Locker is being added to the API, and I realised you could implement the entire API (inefficiently) with just newKey and sameKey. < 1325752377 437567 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Including Vault itself.) < 1325752432 383081 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1325752558 149300 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://stackoverflow.com/questions/8736774/mapping-with-pairs, http://stackoverflow.com/questions/8739451/getting-minimum-values-of-mappings < 1325752565 821161 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think a new Haskell class must have just started somewhere. < 1325752696 705126 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: sameKey is quite morally sound, anyway. < 1325752710 120176 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just saying that if you have two identical objects, then they must have the same type. < 1325752725 45563 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except it's weaker than that, it's just if you have two identical Keys, then they must have the same type argument :) < 1325752756 118752 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You often have convincing rationalizations that things that you do are morally sound. < 1325752757 227049 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is trivially true because each Key is created in IO (and so is monomorphic like IORefs) and each one gets a unique identity. < 1325752771 18818 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just that you *need* those rationalisations so often... < 1325752771 175073 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: It's great! < 1325752786 380028 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least nobody can complain about the exposed Vault interface itself. < 1325752791 329523 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also it isn't my library in the first place. < 1325752802 520272 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even if I did convince him to use unsafeCoerce instead of IORefs and unsafePerformIO. < 1325752866 382066 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :unsafePerform :: (T :: Set -> Set) -> T a -> a < 1325752893 264951 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf++ < 1325752910 85101 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially good with, e.g. T = Not. < 1325752921 66685 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not would be a good monad. < 1325752986 796393 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The problem is twofold: first, there is no known general-purpose computer that can execute all the programs we can think of except the naughty ones ... There are no hearing aids, only computers we put in our ears ... There are no radios, only computers with fast ADCs and DACs and phased-array antennas ... " < 1325752990 838493 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Freedom in the future will require us to have the capacity to monitor our devices and set meaningful policy on them, to examine and terminate the processes that run on them, to maintain them as honest servants to our will, and not as traitors and spies working for criminals, thugs, and control freaks," Doctorow warns ... < 1325753005 105712 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: By the way, do *you* have a simple explanation for http://stackoverflow.com/a/8738053/1097181? I distinctly recall hearing one once. < 1325753065 907889 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, is that the fmap^6 = fmap^10 thing? < 1325753077 900545 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The bane of my existence. < 1325753097 514695 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: It's fmap^4(k+1) = fmap^4. < 1325753109 840443 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where ^ is repeated application, not composition. < 1325753130 230923 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it is why my ideas inventing Hypernet protocol (a 100% decentralized networking protocol with packet security on everything, runnable over many modes of communication, including computer disks transfer, printout on paper, writing by hand, telephone, amateur radio, books, etc), and the new computer idea I have, and to eventually build and sell, including complete printed documentation, hardware diagram, etc < 1325753142 685779 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Hmm. < 1325753152 948570 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have a simple explanation for it < 1325753159 239278 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I've wondered about it several times before. < 1325753166 266400 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you find a simple explanation for it, please tell me. < 1325753175 580860 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it might have been oerjan who explanated it. < 1325753188 613199 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, you know how you can usually stick a bunch of fmaps in front of things to get rid of parentheses? < 1325753205 164694 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :For some sufficiently vague definition of that, sure. < 1325753233 976871 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't always work, I think, no matter where you spread the fmaps around. < 1325753240 985531 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a combinator you can do that with in general? < 1325753252 374722 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: iota :p < 1325753256 170115 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should get closer to "general-purpose computer that can execute all the programs we can think of except the naughty ones" than most things due to my idea design hardware and BIOS (both completely free specification and open source); and trademarks to protect some things too, and even built-in programming feature (in Forth and in BASIC, again with complete printed documentation). But only in time can you know for sure... < 1325753270 569929 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: It's just asking whether there's a single-combinator base-thing in Hindley-Milner with typeclasses, no? < 1325753286 881271 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except with the ability to interleave other expressions too. But it's basically just a combinator question. < 1325753301 681677 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's that Okasaki thing with the two combinators that don't need parens. < 1325753310 245598 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that's in untyped LC though. < 1325753317 630718 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I knew you would mention Iota or something. < 1325753329 135143 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That answer doesn't satisfy me for whatever reason. Though I guess it should. < 1325753389 271843 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: My prediction is yes, there is such a basis, because you could use the types to get yourself the equivalent of two combinators. < 1325753400 267925 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pick your types wisely and you should be able to express everything. < 1325753406 986207 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The types as in typeclass instances. < 1325753420 15211 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hates type classes. < 1325753423 462670 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The worst feature of Haskell. < 1325753487 416172 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, I should try to make even the hard drive to be made completely of free software, if possible, and even the CPU design to be completely of free software < 1325753692 143718 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Things (ALL things) should be sold with their schematics. Does not have to be in paper form in the manual, but at least a downloadable PDF would be helpful. I would also certainly not complain if compilable source-codes for the firmware were available too" ... Yes, it is what I shall plan to do, all these thing, except PDF because I don't like PDF very much. < 1325753745 63529 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Also the only feature. < 1325753777 669112 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Just imagine all the sorts of possible hacks - without the slightest bit inconveniencing the "regular users" whom nobody forces to download and read the specs. And imagine the ability to figure out that the given device is a piece o' crap by looking at its schematics before it is bought." < 1325753788 709841 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes this is very good. < 1325754407 502794 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if you fail to understand Forth programming or any other programming, you can still simply insert the disc and push START button. See, it is as easy to use as any other devices, possibly even more easy and simply, and even simpler by design that hackers can use, too; not only for ordinary people. < 1325754538 719086 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, kallisti who else update? < 1325754570 863144 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who else update indeed. < 1325754717 292624 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Behold the quality of SO's suggested edit queue: http://ompldr.org/vYzJpZA < 1325754736 747135 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Therefore it must be done somehow to convince other people that the other device and computer and program and stuff is bad due to their actual reasons such as DRM and spying and so on, and to tell that these new one my idea, are the better one; such as freedom, local function, secure, reliability (such as not broken due to internet broken), privacy, provability, etc < 1325754738 392986 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION would approve it, but ran out of votes for today. < 1325754787 727696 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Is that one of those "has anything ever do look more like" sentences? < 1325754816 661195 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not managing to read the whole thing. < 1325754817 691328 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And cash is acceptable as payment < 1325754855 594345 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Also, you're SO-famous enough to be able to approve things? < 1325754869 797567 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Suggested edits, yes. That comes at 5,000 rep. < 1325754877 147816 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actual moderation tool things come at 10k, which I should hit in less than a month. < 1325754902 691559 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I'm not sure, but "dfgsgdfgdfgersdfdfgg" is definitely a worthy addition to the question. < 1325754907 292656 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :As is the bold italic. < 1325754915 279431 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Also two people have to approve anything, so it's not like I'm omnipotent. < 1325754929 513408 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also I can just unilaterally edit posts anyway, so it basically gives me no power at all. < 1325754934 693852 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ereyesterday I had 1 karma; yesterday I had 2; today I have 4. < 1325754953 820438 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should hit 1048576 in 10 days, clearly. < 1325754973 93232 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would be quite impressive. < 1325754982 100651 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although it's only about 3 times the top user's rep. < 1325754992 702189 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, by 10 I mean 20. By which I mean 17. < 1325754996 110792 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assuming I can count, which is a dangerous assumption. < 1325755017 531963 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm uncomfortable with the idea of a world where you have any power at all. < 1325755046 558126 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is a world we are all burdened with. < 1325755051 404212 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe StackOverflow is just a secret plot to keep people like elliott away from politics. < 1325755078 297994 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why the fuck is Klaymen's Theme in my head. I can't deal with this, I'm sleep-deprived. < 1325755083 776731 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I don't think I needed SO to accomplish that. < 1325755084 728514 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Klaymen's Theme! < 1325755087 681021 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott++ < 1325755094 720435 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, meaningless internet points! < 1325755097 136452 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you know I like those a lot? < 1325755104 904547 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did! < 1325755125 846638 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you have Neverhood-nostalgia too? < 1325755167 820140 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :For a sufficiently lax definition of "nostalgia". I'm not sure when I played it, but it definitely wasn't when it came out. < 1325755173 662131 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was many years ago, though. < 1325755180 395935 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't it come out in 1996? < 1325755184 229211 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't play it then either. < 1325755192 447215 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was youngish at the time, though. < 1325755197 369463 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Certainly a single-digit age. < 1325755205 182556 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wikipedia says yes. < 1325755211 783753 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Did you know you could solve the mouse puzzle just by following the mouse's nose? < 1325755252 266126 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I do now! Things I also just learned: I've forgotten about 90% of the parts of the Neverhood that aren't the music. < 1325755269 441087 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's OK, the music is the best part anyway. < 1325755274 37069 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Other than the parts that aren't the music. < 1325755281 415644 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Put commercials on television to question copyrights. Put commercials in television to ban DRM. Put shows on television that are only available on analog service, and only without encryption, and including complete commercial skip and without overlays added. < 1325755290 791307 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay. < 1325755323 253681 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@google potatoes tomatoes gravy and peas < 1325755324 205353 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6R5x1VP2b4 < 1325755324 363510 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Title: The Neverhood - Potatoes Tomatoes Gravy and Peas - YouTube < 1325755339 949228 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And also including captions for both shows and commercials, so that they can be printed out. < 1325755347 780451 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@google southern front porch whistler < 1325755348 652580 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZgx997HjqE < 1325755348 810464 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Title: Southern Front Porch Whistler - YouTube < 1325755388 16895 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, the Neverhood article links to the Grim Fandango article. That is also a game! < 1325755392 666755 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What a coincidence! < 1325755408 694569 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hasn't played that one. < 1325755426 791210 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, that link is completely rubbish. < 1325755428 731177 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Get rid of it. < 1325755440 677866 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should though, it's a really good game. < 1325755444 230513 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apart from the controls. < 1325755450 891496 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I played Monkey Island 4. < 1325755462 748693 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it's the same engine. < 1325755466 115366 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except the game isn't terrible. < 1325755473 304897 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :MI4 isn't *terrible*! < 1325755483 948979 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, "bad". < 1325755492 67476 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it? < 1325755505 396044 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now it is time to fight with heavy computers that can still be throw out of a window!!! < 1325755506 703162 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not like MI1... Or MI2... Or MI3... < 1325755509 803799 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But still. < 1325755521 859303 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Well, it's probably not all that bad a game, but the association with the franchise makes it more disappointing. < 1325755535 90914 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is true of quite a few things. < 1325755535 248996 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(From our departmental issue tracker:) "Title: B243 closet noises" "I think B243 holds some networking equipment. Anyway, FYI its emitting some strange whining noises." -- this was 3 weeks ago. It sounds like the start of a bad horror movie. < 1325755540 274822 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's a good game? < 1325755544 244416 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the networking equipment closet, no-one can hear you scream. < 1325755550 369713 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Pong! < 1325755554 757828 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Pong isn't actually a good game.) < 1325755554 920071 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Psychonauts is good in a way roughly similar to how the Neverhood is good. < 1325755560 399748 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't played Psychonauts. < 1325755563 324967 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh? < 1325755564 613147 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :When it came out, my computer was too bad for it. < 1325755568 225597 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should play Psychonauts. < 1325755568 382238 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then I never got around to it. < 1325755577 341579 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: When it came out, I wasn't aware of its existence. < 1325755595 305749 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't stop me from playing it later. < 1325755599 303752 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll bother to play Psychonauts if you bother to play Grim Fandango. Now we can procrastinate without blaming ourselves! < 1325755600 769913 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Come on, play Psychonauts. < 1325755605 894575 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Fair enough! < 1325755621 877000 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I have a CD of Grim Fandango somewhere. < 1325755631 764213 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, my father has it. And he's 10 time zones away from here. < 1325755635 980797 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now it is time to blame the MPAA on the energy crisis!!! < 1325755671 288744 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now it is time to blame the MPAA for causing energy crisis!!! < 1325755681 641123 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: You could INFRINGE UPON ITS COPYRIGHT. < 1325755700 736915 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the ultimate anti-piracy measure will be games getting bigger faster than internet connections get faster. < 1325755736 370828 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I like how the phrase for "a game that you can pay for in order to download in accordance with regulations" is "digital download". < 1325755745 920119 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose that's in contrast to "analog download". < 1325755760 688599 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: It's the best way to download real numbers. < 1325755777 830393 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :All I want to do is download some fingers, man. < 1325755788 746208 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Clearly the ultimate anti-piracy measure is to include specialized hardware with your game. < 1325755790 910265 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Residual (ScummVM subproject to do GrimE too) website claims that you can now play (with "few glitches") all the way through Grim Fandango with it now. < 1325755800 758588 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thinks Grim Fandango might be better than MI1. < 1325755806 738989 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If not for the controls, at least. < 1325755814 640143 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And you can play the intro video of the demo of Escape from Monkey Island. That's... not quite as far.) < 1325755838 61406 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would just use a VM. < 1325755845 327899 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not the most resource-intensive game. < 1325755858 762909 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :VM running what? < 1325755868 282000 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Win``doze''. < 1325755873 143525 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Win``nap''. Win``light sleep''. < 1325755882 592047 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :``Lose''``light sleep''. < 1325755884 971803 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where am I going to get a Windows CD? < 1325755893 985140 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: `Lose''``light: not found < 1325755895 572118 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :With an analog download, of course. < 1325755902 883114 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, you crinimal. < 1325755908 625305 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*cinnamon < 1325755941 607167 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Is it just me, or did ScummVM realise they support every adventure game anyone actually wants to play and just went on a hunt for more and more obscure platforms to implement for kicks? < 1325755945 656304 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1325755968 671383 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Did you ever play the Discworld games? < 1325755981 21696 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OMG, ScummVM can do Toonstruck now??? < 1325755981 178047 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speaking of things that ScummVM supports. < 1325755983 465351 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I take my remark back. < 1325755995 342609 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I think I played one of them for like five minutes once. < 1325755996 293618 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, no. < 1325756025 326002 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ScummVM's Tinsel (i.e. Discworld) support was real sucky back when they first included it. I guess it's better now, too. < 1325756131 63558 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: There was an annoying bug where it let you play through the entire game but then an item was missing in the final ending ultimate eventual supreme concluding terminating sequence. < 1325756141 449225 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And by item I think I mean dragon. < 1325756159 808165 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might have heard something about a missing dragon, it sounds familiar. < 1325756195 516396 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've just played through the first game on DOS, and I think I started the second one once but then for some reason didn't finish it. < 1325756199 387061 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://forums.scummvm.org/viewtopic.php?p=67208&sid=44ec24bd244e3e1d3971fe90d51bd4cc < 1325756486 176905 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Due to simplicity of the system, and lack of DRM, makes my system the once most energy efficient too. And in addition, we will even omit whatever parts you don't want (such as printed manual, etc) ! < 1325756810 385300 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :One features of this BIOS is user-definable error emulation mode. Media with physical defects can still be copied! And BIOS can be adjusted by moving jumpers and user programmable ROM without software requiring data in ROM because all system call must be using NMI call and the ROM data and BIOS control cannot be accessed otherwise. < 1325756825 819920 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also mean, no unique identification data can be accessed by the computer software. < 1325756989 652554 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Did you know that Stack Overflow has the single best piece of user interface ever? < 1325757010 42786 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I didn't know that. < 1325757013 508561 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: You can only post comments every 15 seconds. Whenever you click the "post comment" button before the timeout expires, it pops up a little message telling you the timer hasn't expired Yet. Then it resets the timer. < 1325757013 665555 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still don't. < 1325757029 432419 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zomg < 1325757030 398493 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The result is hitting the button every 14 seconds about 500 times in a row. < 1325757038 990954 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Poor elliott has to learn the art of patience. :-( < 1325757041 53564 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's morale-building. < 1325757052 720775 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, is that a UI thing or does the server check? < 1325757060 29431 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: The server checks. < 1325757064 943863 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The really great part is that it says 15 seconds, but it's actually 16. < 1325757071 262355 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can honestly think of no conceivable reason to do it other than to annoy people. < 1325757088 40765 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I really hope that's true. < 1325757169 470623 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lack of the copy protection even means that the store won't run out of copies; the store can make their own copy or the customer can do so, too. < 1325757274 967094 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like all those words zzo38 is saying. < 1325757399 416275 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Including the punctuations and sentences? < 1325757698 181419 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: But mainly the words. < 1325757774 139720 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1325757781 619985 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. < 1325757804 101295 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it is not a complete meaning unless you make the words into sentences too < 1325758690 801927 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[ < 1325758691 760751 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye started watching ehird/funge-archive 2 days ago < 1325758691 916838 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :funge-archive's description: < 1325758692 73623 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :An archive of various Funge-related material, focusing on (Be)funge-98. < 1325758692 236334 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :]] < 1325758695 971396 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh no, I might have to actually update that. < 1325758812 640102 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh ho. There is an EYEBALL on you now. < 1325758851 354433 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your GitHub profile is still one of my most-viewed webpages thanks to completion. < 1325758870 145004 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, he's watching you too. < 1325758871 413975 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Feel the eyes. < 1325758881 353155 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO. < 1325758881 660028 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The... cat's eyes. < 1325759855 496780 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey QUIT :Quit: The Other Game < 1325760665 953695 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1325760889 557381 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1325760902 182848 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi Phantom_Hoover welcome to hoov univers < 1325760934 352066 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PART :#esoteric < 1325760950 629449 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1325760961 602006 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi Phantom_Hoover welcome to hoov univers < 1325760970 313664 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :For some reason all the window borders in Chrome have turned red. < 1325760981 783045 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, it didn't work that time. < 1325761007 834832 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: This time it turned all the window borders in Chrome read. < 1325761008 627690 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :red. < 1325761013 612493 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi Phantom_Hoover welcome to hoov univers < 1325761024 981532 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Soon Phantom_Hoover will discover that in the hoov univers, his entire family is made out of hoover. < 1325761029 744925 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :AUGH THE FIRE < 1325761054 608649 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott TOPIC #esoteric :hi Phantom_Hoover welcome to hoov univers | hi Phantom_Hoover welcome to hoov univers < 1325761061 598864 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi Phantom_Hoover welcome to hoov univers: hi Phantom_Hoover welcome to hoov univers, hi Phantom_Hoover welcome to hoov univers hi Phantom_Hoover welcome to hoov univers. hi Phantom_Hoover welcome to hoov univers? hi Phantom_Hoover welcome to hoov univers! < 1325761097 277143 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Is that a dialect of Ook? < 1325761102 33243 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE REEDY PIPES OF THE AWFUL FULLNESS < 1325761102 665709 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: hi Phantom_Hoover welcome to hoov univers. < 1325761103 300875 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover is now a BF derivative. < 1325761109 162858 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh god. < 1325761112 488181 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's going to brickbrain himself < 1325761114 294585 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the brick < 1325761117 26812 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :will be < 1325761118 494315 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a hoover < 1325761119 129971 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi Phantom_Hoover welcome to hoov univers < 1325761126 109825 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, elliott is a creator of a BF derivative. < 1325761132 233914 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1325761134 494712 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You brought this on yourself! < 1325761138 826866 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU BROUGHT THIS ON YOURSELF!!!! < 1325761143 503572 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :FACE YOUR ENDING hi Phantom_Hoover welcome to hoov univers hi Phantom_Hoover welcome to hoov univers hi Phantom_Hoover welcome to hoov univers hi Phantom_Hoover welcome to hoov univers < 1325761165 469274 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'm to blame here, actually. < 1325761168 526140 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION throws a brick southwards. < 1325761176 530109 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should know better than to say anything in IRC that's ever been said before. < 1325761177 22565 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ha! < 1325761181 340824 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the hoov universe, topology doesn't work like that. < 1325761184 418406 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION throws another brick southwards. < 1325761185 210849 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also geometry, but topology sounds fanceir. < 1325761187 363231 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fancier. < 1325761189 611553 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :IRC people have a high sensitivity to things being said twice. < 1325761192 226227 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're actually throwing bricks at yourself. < 1325761194 907402 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :As they say in IRC: < 1325761199 97885 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Zero, one, or infinity" < 1325761203 713062 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the hoov univers, all paths point Phantom_Hooverwards. < 1325761209 441746 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: You forgot two. < 1325761215 940627 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott is now attempting infinity (and beyond) < 1325761227 17791 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, sure, but some of them also intersect you. < 1325761230 239991 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You forgot two. < 1325761233 940301 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: No, it's like a black hole. < 1325761241 27420 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But only for bricks. < 1325761265 130499 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think you know how geometry works. < 1325761270 704298 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :IF ONLY YOU READ MAC LANE < 1325761279 803689 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Excuse me, this is the hoov univers. < 1325761287 711520 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Geometry works in whatever way is least personally convenient for you. < 1325761309 505417 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hoov universe is #esoteric? < 1325761332 232527 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only with the e. < 1325761337 279449 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The hoov univers is the matrix of solidity itself. < 1325761342 252574 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's generated by a hoover. < 1325761343 45001 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :#soteric < 1325761345 146578 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :A phantom hoover. < 1325761929 11993 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you agree with me??? Let's accuse the MPAA/RIAA of wasting energy too much!! < 1325761952 641844 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1325762094 923919 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree with zzo38. < 1325762098 371288 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Do you? < 1325762123 842806 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree with everything zzo38 says. Even the ridiculous things. < 1325762134 623140 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also the... well, there's no other things left. < 1325762283 266777 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think some of the things zzo38 says aren't ridiculous if you take them out of context. < 1325764119 173880 :nooga!~nooga@c35-253.icpnet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1325764122 839046 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1325764191 730540 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1325765020 122034 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1325765033 564283 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1325765403 575137 :Jafet1!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1325765422 549475 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1325765448 757810 :Jafet1!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Client Quit < 1325766129 935158 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1325766833 589329 :nooga!~nooga@c35-253.icpnet.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 253 seconds < 1325767052 718988 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1325767201 389818 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org TOPIC #esoteric :Official channel of Haskelӏ < 1325767231 136198 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org TOPIC #esoteric :Official channel of stupid topic changes | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1325767264 299482 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: How does your log formatter decide when a quit should be shown in channel; you don't NAMES periodically so that requires unbounded lookback < 1325767268 341716 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :FINALLY I get that question in while he's here. < 1325767268 977881 :nooga!~nooga@c35-253.icpnet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1325767298 766080 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: My formatter does not work over a partial log, it needs history. < 1325767303 654143 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well < 1325767308 520993 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the purposes of quits it doesn't. < 1325767324 780950 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Oh, you regenerate complete history? < 1325767328 207284 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1325767340 828272 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Niice... < 1325767356 360791 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :The raw logs are canonical, everything else is a nicety. < 1325767370 217076 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Yes, but you should still NAMES periodically to handle desyncs >_> < 1325767379 335050 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Periodically = when you switch files, most likely) < 1325767392 56997 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't need to treat quits specially if the logs are already separated by channel < 1325767414 919000 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: The logs are only separated by channel if you have a per-channel bot ... < 1325767450 759939 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That's probably reasonable, but doesn't accomplish anything I care much about to be honest. < 1325767461 618730 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: well what i mean is that the logic is when you separate things by channel, which happens before even the .raw stage, no? < 1325767476 338025 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1325767479 90567 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact it could be done by glogbot directly < 1325767520 668470 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: is glogbot initially writing everything into one big file for all channels combined, or is it writing into separate files for each channels immediately? < 1325767530 600659 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*-s < 1325767542 672486 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: One big combined file. It just dumps IRC. < 1325767544 756318 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1325767548 754671 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha. < 1325767580 183743 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :By your channels combined, I am Captain glogbot. < 1325767585 147195 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :The bot does as little intelligence as possible so that if the intelligence needs to be fixed or is buggy I can always pass it on. < 1325767600 114879 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok so you do need to seek back to the previous NAMES then, i gues < 1325767602 333954 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :s < 1325767612 556502 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I don't seek, I just carry the names in the channel. < 1325767626 3853 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be silly to seek, since the names list is also modified by PART, NICK, KICK, etc. < 1325767660 854677 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: i mean that NAMES tells you the last point for a channel which you don't need to look before to know the nicks present < 1325767681 725246 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, yes. < 1325767706 928323 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but of course if you are doing a rescan of entire history each time you generate files... but isn't that expensive < 1325767723 764565 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only regenerate files if things fuck up. < 1325767745 246322 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :If things fuck up because I crash, then I don't care, I now have a new starting point to generate from. < 1325767757 374150 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :If things fuck up because my generator was bad, then I want to regenerate. < 1325767775 809511 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let me explain the process more completely. < 1325767786 389853 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if you ever miss a single QUIT or PART because of server issues, you have to special-case it in the generator. < 1325767787 856043 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you even notice. < 1325767789 49421 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :glogbot outputs a log. Its entire session is one log. All PAST sessions are previous logs. < 1325767808 858063 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never need to read past sessions because a fresh session will always have NICK. < 1325767825 618764 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I should never need to restart current sessions unless things crash, but if things crash then I'm fucked anyway. < 1325767847 869536 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/have NICK/have NICKS/ < 1325767852 605980 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: ok so it's per session, not periodically split, i guess that makes it easier < 1325768204 925415 :cswords!~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325768205 119080 :cswords!~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net QUIT :Client Quit < 1325769057 20258 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : shachaf: By the way, do *you* have a simple explanation for http://stackoverflow.com/a/8738053/1097181? I distinctly recall hearing one once. < 1325769063 801708 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't that just writing it out? < 1325769075 276987 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fmap fmap fmap = fmap . fmap < 1325769093 174601 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fmap fmap fmap fmap = (fmap . fmap) fmap = fmap (fmap fmap) < 1325769115 802370 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fmap fmap fmap fmap fmap = fmap (fmap fmap) fmap = fmap fmap . fmap < 1325769147 656566 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fmap fmap fmap fmap fmap fmap = (fmap fmap . fmap) fmap = fmap fmap (fmap fmap) = fmap . fmap fmap < 1325769153 848040 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1325769175 849643 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fmap fmap fmap fmap fmap fmap fmap = (fmap . fmap fmap) fmap = fmap (fmap fmap fmap) = fmap (fmap . fmap) < 1325769205 876031 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fmap fmap fmap fmap fmap fmap fmap fmap = fmap (fmap . fmap) fmap = fmap . fmap . fmap < 1325769258 578012 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fmap fmap fmap fmap fmap fmap fmap fmap fmap = (fmap . fmap . fmap) fmap = fmap (fmap (fmap fmap)) < 1325769302 879566 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fmap fmap fmap fmap fmap fmap fmap fmap fmap fmap = fmap (fmap (fmap fmap)) fmap = fmap (fmap fmap) . fmap < 1325769325 588065 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :...shouldn't there have been ar repetition by now. < 1325769451 913878 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1325769542 791210 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fmap fmap fmap fmap fmap fmap fmap fmap fmap fmap fmap = (fmap (fmap fmap) . fmap) fmap = fmap (fmap fmap) (fmap fmap) = fmap fmap . fmap fmap < 1325769578 429819 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fmap fmap fmap fmap fmap fmap fmap fmap fmap fmap fmap fmap = (fmap fmap . fmap fmap) fmap = fmap fmap (fmap fmap fmap) = fmap . fmap . fmap, finally < 1325769597 58149 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fmap^12 = fmap^8 < 1325769661 769203 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :...actually that's not the usual meaning of f^n as functions, but anyhow. < 1325769702 822377 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1325769718 4869 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t fmap fmap fmap fmap fmap < 1325769718 838858 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a (f :: * -> *) a1 b. (Functor f) => (a1 -> b) -> (a -> a1) -> f a -> f b < 1325769723 392096 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t fmap fmap fmap fmap fmap fmap < 1325769724 26659 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a (f :: * -> *) a1 b (f1 :: * -> *). (Functor f, Functor f1) => (a -> a1 -> b) -> f a -> f (f1 a1 -> f1 b) < 1325769727 269988 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t fmap fmap fmap fmap fmap fmap fmap < 1325769728 299431 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (f :: * -> *) (f1 :: * -> *) a b (f2 :: * -> *). (Functor f, Functor f1, Functor f2) => f (a -> b) -> f (f1 (f2 a) -> f1 (f2 b)) < 1325769730 719560 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t fmap fmap fmap fmap fmap fmap fmap fmap < 1325769731 514483 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (f :: * -> *) (f1 :: * -> *) a b (f2 :: * -> *). (Functor f, Functor f1, Functor f2) => (a -> b) -> f (f1 (f2 a)) -> f (f1 (f2 b)) < 1325769737 765063 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t fmap fmap fmap fmap fmap fmap fmap fmap fmap < 1325769738 558547 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (f :: * -> *) (f1 :: * -> *) (f2 :: * -> *) a b (f3 :: * -> *). (Functor f, Functor f1, Functor f2, Functor f3) => f (f1 (f2 (a -> b))) -> f (f1 (f2 (f3 a -> f3 b))) < 1325769744 393047 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t fmap fmap fmap fmap fmap fmap fmap fmap fmap fmap < 1325769745 184995 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b (f :: * -> *) a1 (f1 :: * -> *). (Functor f1, Functor f) => (a1 -> a -> b) -> f1 a1 -> f1 (f a -> f b) < 1325769748 417720 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t fmap fmap fmap fmap fmap fmap fmap fmap fmap fmap fmap < 1325769749 407918 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (f :: * -> *) (f1 :: * -> *) a b (f2 :: * -> *). (Functor f1, Functor f, Functor f2) => f1 (a -> b) -> f1 (f (f2 a) -> f (f2 b)) < 1325769814 111458 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok so 6 has the same type as 10, is the first repetition < 1325769849 166107 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia's pretending to be oerjan? < 1325769892 512151 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fmap fmap fmap fmap fmap fmap = fmap . fmap fmap; fmap fmap fmap fmap fmap fmap fmap fmap fmap fmap = fmap (fmap fmap) . fmap < 1325769973 966689 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(fmap . fmap fmap) x = fmap (fmap fmap x) < 1325770003 445304 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is still a function, so < 1325770042 85413 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric := fmap (fmap . x) < 1325770098 954192 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :while (fmap (fmap fmap) . fmap) x = fmap (fmap fmap) (fmap x) = fmap fmap . fmap x < 1325770117 424838 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :both still functions < 1325770150 712413 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fmap (fmap . x) y vs. < 1325770191 794242 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(fmap fmap . fmap x) y = fmap fmap (fmap x y) < 1325770215 846691 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh the functor law of course, they are equal. < 1325770249 140795 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : isn't that just writing it out? < 1325770253 942662 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that does not _explain_ it, mathematician :P < 1325770274 211749 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i cannot recall an explanation then < 1325770428 912828 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :08:46:28: Also, you know how you can usually stick a bunch of fmaps in front of things to get rid of parentheses? < 1325770432 6541 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :08:46:45: For some sufficiently vague definition of that, sure. < 1325770434 581845 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :08:47:13: It doesn't always work, I think, no matter where you spread the fmaps around. < 1325770467 921734 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :istr it always does. < 1325770500 287687 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait hm < 1325770527 777853 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want there to be no parentheses around the fmaps either, it gets trickier < 1325770790 25905 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but with parentheses it's easy enough: a b (c ... y z) = (.) (a b) (c ... y) z and now you have handled one variable, iterate until there are none left < 1325770822 653869 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :at which point the remaining initial blob can only contain parentheses and .'s < 1325771313 460414 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org TOPIC #esoteric :Official channel of frequent stupid topic changes | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1325771343 533493 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no TOPIC #esoteric :Official channel of the frequent stupid topic change singularity | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1325771872 766549 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no TOPIC #esoteric :Official channel of the frequent stupid topic change singularity: the Sequel | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1325771948 725109 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=math < 1325771954 193407 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like maths that little bit less now. < 1325771962 74427 :nooga!~nooga@c35-253.icpnet.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1325772075 487158 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously that's because you're an idiot, duh < 1325772201 40830 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-141.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325772211 355913 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You read a Maddox page and your take-away from it wasn't that you like Maddox that little bit less now; you must have reading comprehension difficulties. < 1325772252 4115 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-141.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1325772291 131122 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it would be quite difficult to make me like Maddox that little bit less. < 1325772305 552880 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-141.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-16424659 < 1325772318 645167 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Ah; also referred to as "Tau Zero". < 1325772322 18436 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Without the spaceship. < 1325772327 311803 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, it has a zero in it. < 1325772340 28082 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And in any case liking maths that little bit less is the more noteworthy effect, as maths is good and Maddox is... not. < 1325772355 952823 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's good at reminding the world that some people are just awful? < 1325772359 896678 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Public service. < 1325772379 5117 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: Ha ha, you get your news from bbc.co.uk, like an OLD person. < 1325772436 101781 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goddamned Swedes. < 1325772489 933877 :nooga!~nooga@c35-253.icpnet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1325772593 993694 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: The only positive result of me clicking that link was "ha ha, the shithead has totally sold out by adding margins and a Facebook like button". < 1325772608 227127 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the flipside I'm now an advocate for genocide. < 1325772621 195121 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would sue you, but the plan is to kill you anyway. < 1325772642 262461 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i got tricked to click an amazon link :( < 1325772654 644165 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought it was another page on the website < 1325772680 81145 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: The main problem here is that you wanted to go to another page on the website. < 1325772682 342444 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fortunately i can thwart his scheme buy continuing my policy of not buying anything online. < 1325772705 170790 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*by < 1325772849 239051 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Hey, I can make you like him a little less: < 1325772851 23632 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[How old are you? / Where do you go to school? / Where do you live? / What is your major? < 1325772851 221509 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :At the time of this writing I'm 26, I go to school at the University of Utah; my major is math.]] < 1325772864 643198 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think, in context, mathematics is now double ruined. < 1325772875 333712 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*vomit* < 1325772880 91816 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how < 1325772884 136113 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can he be doing maths < 1325772885 882165 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Utah, man. < 1325772890 84878 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yet know next to nothing about it < 1325772891 124566 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-141.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's only doing one math. < 1325772892 657863 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's, like, Utah. < 1325772898 396956 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-141.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Subtraction, maybe < 1325772909 605879 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: :D < 1325773303 669279 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, for more Maddox, check the comments in /r/math. < 1325773665 826608 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mathematics has many military and banking applications < 1325773725 467060 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :death and taxes, it's all math < 1325773728 773243 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i admit that humans are quite capable of killing each other without logic < 1325773866 913593 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess to be fair what i should say is, society is always able to force mathematicians to work on military equipment since society controls the flow of money < 1325773915 246296 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :they have been surprisingly inefficient in my case < 1325773979 545154 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess that the point is that math has positive purposes which are beyond the agenda of any economic entity < 1325774004 634758 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that it has to endure being used for evil < 1325774077 119742 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in my head i am unable to want world peace... to me a world peace sounds fascist and sterile.. a bit like a museum < 1325774136 797881 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is to say, i have concluded that the goal of humans is not to develop peace < 1325774154 606903 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps that is the goal of some though < 1325774342 3206 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like an isolated village can cope with daily internal conflict.. < 1325774361 944321 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't require an absence of conflict < 1325774416 516087 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Or perhaps you only think they have been ineffectual, while in reality they're killing people with your theorems every day. < 1325774438 593557 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA < 1325774457 329871 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: a funny quote about dennis the menace "that boy could turn a marshmallow into a dangerous weapon" < 1325774506 198630 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :every technology is devoid of moral quality in itself.. i mean, it is only in the application of some technology that it is good or evil < 1325774546 645767 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :this baby blender is entirely morally neutral < 1325774575 665035 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-141.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, UK or US Dennis? < 1325774588 839549 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :US cartoon i think.. the goofy blonde kid < 1325774595 742758 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-141.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :US. < 1325774631 619843 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well.. what i think about this is < 1325774653 855237 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that people have a standard view of what objects are used for what... < 1325774675 996140 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and.. (now gaining insight) this enables people to detect abnormal behavior more readily < 1325774700 909623 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it's a relatively safe bet that few outside the UK even know that the UK dennis exists. although i somehow bumped into it on wikipedia. < 1325774723 570072 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't know it was the UK/US thing < 1325774742 77840 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i have encountered a picture of the black haired dennis and wondered why he looked different < 1325774755 301116 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the red and black striped shirt (not cheating here) < 1325774759 424528 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think maybe this channel discussed it before < 1325774884 413602 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well its common sense that an executable file is much more dangerous to download than a data file < 1325774913 852503 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1325774924 510632 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it took me a while to learn or figure out that a data file is dangerous because it triggers some other code to be executed, and that other code can be imperfect < 1325774947 475786 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-141.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello oklopol < 1325774954 928202 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other code of course being the program actually reading the data < 1325774968 784327 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott, for more Maddox, check the comments in /r/math. < 1325774971 679489 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Hmmmmmmmmmmm: no. < 1325775068 855970 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for me, at this moment in my life i am hesitant about whether i could come to like haskell (am i talking about something i don't even know about? yes..) anyway.. < 1325775085 680938 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :personally i think i dislike this flkwfwejfkle itidus21 has been talking about that i know nothing about < 1325775106 813427 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think this is because i've built up an elaborate preconception as to what it is based on no evidence at all, and constantly attack this strawman < 1325775154 171822 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: is there going to be a need for my passive aggressivity in this discussion? < 1325775194 550372 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i literally sit around at home every day, wondering what new exciting thing my family will say that will make me die a little bit more inside each time < 1325775206 497558 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing else is meaningful about me < 1325775224 60483 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you appear to be using the term "discussion". i invite you to consider the term "hopeless" < 1325775234 401182 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no TOPIC #esoteric :Official channel of the frequent stupid topic change singularity: the Sequel Prequel, part Three | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1325775259 192338 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ooh, i know all about "hopeless"! < 1325775262 247718 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe its learning experience < 1325775399 871870 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its like, my family can't say anything which will reduce down to logic < 1325775413 431435 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its very painful < 1325775478 27150 :nooga!~nooga@c35-253.icpnet.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1325775507 15041 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like watching someone cycling between the thoughts of "i need to get out of debt" "don't worry i get a big paycheck" "every few weeks i need to borrow money off my mom" "i need to buy absurd novelty items" < 1325775530 448894 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"like $90 whiskey bottles" < 1325775766 526411 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"my pay is one day late so i throw a dumbbell in a CRT TV and throw a cordless drill through the plaster wall" < 1325775874 707823 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1325775903 615004 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Later < 1325775918 814643 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, i have learned that such things is for better or worse inherent in random pockets of humanity.. < 1325775999 30350 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :looking in news websites i encounter occasional stories about people dying in trivial arguments < 1325776041 255907 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I know what you mean. < 1325776061 481206 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the lesson i try to take from that is to not try to prove some principle to someone.. < 1325776078 787370 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT < 1325776124 632434 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other day... i was having some delusion that he was leaving the butter out on the bench on purpose for me to put away.. and as i laid in bed a surge of anger rose in me and i confronted him about it < 1325776137 750727 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and he was proud of me for it the next day < 1325776180 754494 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :lolwut < 1325776183 808857 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :he has told me before he is proud of me if i stand up to him when he needs to be stood up to.. ahh its weird < 1325776194 839675 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :go to school < 1325776205 471270 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well.. i distort things when i type and think about them < 1325776219 471685 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its important to understand that tidus is the least normal person in his house < 1325776224 310489 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :=)) < 1325776235 870519 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :HI COPPRO HOW'S THE WEATHER TODAY < 1325776237 777475 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :IN CANADA < 1325776238 573989 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND < 1325776242 941347 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OTHER PLACES, LET'S TALK EXTENSIVELY ABOUT THE WEATHER < 1325776248 148462 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT < 1325776250 755360 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :IS GOOD < 1325776251 548265 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT... < 1325776252 223446 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ELLIOTT < 1325776254 672589 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH GOD!!! THAT'S SO COOL < 1325776256 103412 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :HERE IT'S UH < 1325776258 409310 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :KIND OF MODERATE!!! < 1325776261 392349 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :A BIT < 1325776264 643548 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :COLD THOUGH < 1325776265 51767 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT IT COULD ALWAYS CHANGE, THAT'S THE THING ABOUT THE WEATHER < 1325776266 322009 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ALWAYS CHANGING < 1325776271 754853 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :YES HERE TOO < 1325776274 769139 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I THINK IT IS: "WINTER" < 1325776278 51825 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT'S FREEZING HERE < 1325776279 518816 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :THOUGH, I MAY BE WRONG < 1325776284 684429 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I LIKE SHORTS < 1325776289 641460 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :THEY'RE COMFORTABLE AND EASY TO WEAR < 1325776299 355292 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :VERILY!!!! HOW IS LIFE IN THE COMMONWEALTH < 1325776302 369835 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :WAIT I'M IN THE COMMONWEALTH TOO < 1325776303 83670 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :UHHH < 1325776307 373773 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ALTHOUGH THE SKY IS STRANGELY CLEAR < 1325776307 848995 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOW'S LIFE IN THE COMMONWEALTH OUTSIDE THE UK < 1325776313 747247 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT I TOOK AN ARROW TO THE KNEE < 1325776316 661325 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :WOW < 1325776318 418346 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :WE'RE NO LONGER FRIENDS < 1325776322 336589 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOODBYE < 1325776324 606914 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :HI PHANTOM_HOOVER HOW'S THE WEATHER IN SCOTLAND TODAY < 1325776325 41365 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I WILL HAVE A SHOWER NOW < 1325776332 256315 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :SEE ABOVE < 1325776340 628940 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :IS THE WEATHER IN HEXHAM STILL SCOTLAND < 1325776340 785236 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :THAT'S AN AMAZING WEATHER < 1325776348 148440 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I GIVE IT A+ STARS OUT OF 100% < 1325776357 782192 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :YES HEXHAM IS CURRENTLY SCOTLAND (THE COUNTRY) < 1325776364 21552 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :AS SUCH ALL ITS ATTRIBUTES ARE SCOTLAND < 1325776374 594837 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'M NOT SURE HOW YOU GUESSED IT WAS MEANT TO BE A SECRET < 1325776553 551976 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :DEEWIANT FOUND OUT < 1325776666 763446 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :THIS IS WHY FINNS SHOULDN'T BE ALLOWED OMNISCIENCE < 1325776673 641446 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OR OXYGEN < 1325776764 347075 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :BLAME APPLE < 1325776861 344042 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1325776862 466984 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :FOR WHAT THO < 1325776879 580741 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :FOR GIVING AWAY THE TERRIBLE SECRET OF HEXHAM < 1325777003 726636 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Actually blame snowstorm99.) < 1325777116 176648 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :since this comment will be possibly damaging i will say it as a riddle. what word is 6 letters long and contains the letters 'M', 'A' and 'X' < 1325777158 418890 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :maxima < 1325777166 852948 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :climax < 1325777177 896024 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1325777184 174698 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maxmax. < 1325777185 840895 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric : >:-) < 1325777188 774607 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Minmax. < 1325777203 545944 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :matrix < 1325777203 739266 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hamhex. < 1325777288 932909 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i will list the other 2 now >:-) hexham and maddox < 1325777290 43273 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1325777378 53713 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's also noteable that maddox and math begin with ma~ < 1325777533 656544 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fsvo notable < 1325777546 823139 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Axeman. < 1325777573 120258 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :notable for being haunting < 1325777580 224453 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is the true secret of hexham < 1325777587 118468 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that it shares 3 letters with maddox < 1325777611 380046 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Ohh, *that* is what the refrance Phantom_Hoover was. < 1325777624 238528 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: This worries me because it means a third person lives in Hexham. < 1325777641 149313 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no ... don't tell me maddox lives in hexham < 1325777648 650236 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/o0bi8/the_weather_for_tuesday_according_to_my_phone/c3dhvx5 STOP MENTIONING HEXHAM IT'S SO WEIRD < 1325777653 687340 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was surprised somebody didn't pick up on that when I first linked it :-P < 1325777680 853613 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol @ link < 1325777692 69357 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I thought it vaguely plausible you'd set up Hexham weather on your phone just for shits and giggles. < 1325777700 371792 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=How+many+people+live+in+Hexham%3F < 1325777728 428166 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Us Hexhamites and Helsinkopods should set up our phones to have the other one as an alternate location so e.g. we always know the time in the other place. < 1325777731 522056 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, for solidarity. < 1325777752 432332 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :How many Helsinkians are there in here, actually? < 1325777760 763212 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: At least three. < 1325777762 191746 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought oko at least lived elsewhere in Finland. < 1325777770 987709 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, fizzie, ineiros, Deewiant, atehwa. < 1325777771 146444 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I live in Espoo, to be all technical about it. < 1325777782 214048 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And so does ineiros; don't know about Deewiant, atehwa. < 1325777783 364675 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so the esolanger density is significantly lower than that in Hexham? < 1325777790 614525 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: That doesn't really "count", it's all Helsinki to me. < 1325777800 362016 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't really "count" for many people here, too. < 1325777800 837804 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Well... Helsinki is rather bigger than Hexham. < 1325777812 439372 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :oko's from Turku unless I misremember. < 1325777814 659441 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :About 60 times bigger. < 1325777819 52174 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, trukku. < 1325777821 537713 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trurktrtuwu. < 1325777844 60058 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :51.7. < 1325777847 320918 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=%28helsinki+population%29%2F%28hexham+population%29 < 1325777862 224233 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm in Helsinki. < 1325777865 214712 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :W|A is really the best thing. < 1325777872 716824 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: You capitalist. < 1325777881 604781 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's me. < 1325777914 761394 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still not convinced Deewiant is a person. < 1325777915 196125 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Generally apartment prices in Helsinki are slightly higher... though there's certainly overlap in that cheap bits of Helsinki are a lot cheaper than expensive bits of Espoo.) < 1325777967 779129 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder if they intend to connect interpreters to wolframalpha < 1325777970 41914 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't believe you guys actually called a place Espoo. < 1325777990 486667 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stupid W|A only knows about median home sale prices in U.S. < 1325777996 134177 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's no longer the best thing. < 1325778000 278052 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, it's now the worst thing. < 1325778002 183795 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't really wonder that < 1325778008 76798 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The Helsinki University of Technology, in Otaniemi, Espoo" < 1325778011 882869 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sic transit gloria mundi. < 1325778020 600774 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Have you considered gently educating your officials as to how to spell Espoo (i.e. not "Helsinki")? < 1325778025 976916 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It was in Helsinki originally. < 1325778032 574654 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :We didn't come up with Espoo, the Swedes did. < 1325778056 748791 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It's Esbo in Swedish.) < 1325778064 493861 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And Helsinki's Helsingfors.) < 1325778103 744934 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Two national languages and all that.) < 1325778104 538766 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: It's always the Swedes. < 1325778109 133503 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-141.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Espoo seems to be the Kingston upon Thames of Finland < 1325778114 488176 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Helsingfors is a pretty good name, I gotta say. < 1325778162 397706 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not a *too* farfetched idea that some day Helsinki, Espoo, Vantaa and Kauniainen will be merged into a single place, though. Certainly it's been proposed a couple of times. < 1325778169 902653 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Kauniainen is completely surrounded by Espoo anyway. < 1325778173 670608 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The local taxation rate in Kauniainen is the lowest in Finland (16.5%),[5] which makes the city attractive to the highest earners. This in turn makes the average income generally high, making it possible to keep the taxation rate low without compromising the service to the inhabitants." < 1325778183 648270 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet Deewiant secretly lives in Kauninaineianeinawenwenawkejawenkawjnfnsfljsiojuauauaua. < 1325778191 678837 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rich Swedish-speaking folks live there. < 1325778197 658634 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Did I break the vowel harmony?) < 1325778206 425588 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :("No, just every other rule of the language.") < 1325778248 186732 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-141.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, do have any idea when Cock Wood becomes Half Mile Wood < 1325778248 821271 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see any yöä there, so I think you're good. < 1325778264 287222 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"yökätä" = "to puke" (informally). < 1325778299 285907 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: No, but I suspect it's the basis of approx. 16 thousand trillion billion bad jokes. < 1325778312 518164 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION vaguely recalls those place names, though. < 1325778314 621191 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: To gag, rather. < 1325778329 680317 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Gag me with a spoon. < 1325778332 632120 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: What's you guys'ses word for "yawn"? < 1325778333 306903 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just for the page itself "Graphics & text hack of Super Mario World. It's a cruel, ugly hack dedicated to the glory of 1996-era Bolivia." http://badderhacksnet.ipage.com/badderhacks/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=34:bolivia-96&catid=7:snes&Itemid=1 < 1325778346 481492 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :And not even informally, methinks. < 1325778365 791261 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Not even informally" -- Deewiant "methinks" Deewiant < 1325778368 14478 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: "haukotella" (verb), "haukotus" (noun). < 1325778400 391454 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hokay, work -> shops -> home now. -> < 1325778411 384800 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: haukotella < 1325778418 977463 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: hauuuuuuuuuukotella < 1325778423 537640 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-141.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are also Swallowship Woods and Wagtail Wood < 1325778430 984848 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You want the noun for that < 1325778431 344396 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm attempting to disprove my completely ludicrous hypothesis that it only works for English. < 1325778435 600218 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: haukotus < 1325778437 703057 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: hauuuuuukotus < 1325778446 74 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, that actually made me yawn. < 1325778456 491827 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The power of Finnish. < 1325778456 671046 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-141.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Wooley Wood < 1325778836 908943 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Similarly to the University, the "Helsinki airport" is in fact in Vantaa. (It's proper name is in fact "Helsinki-Vantaa airport", code HEL.) < 1325778894 485901 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1325779052 797824 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-141.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, hello < 1325779106 66396 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :java is annoying to code in (doing this for university purposes) < 1325779148 268876 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is like a clunkier C# (yes I know java was around before C#). The languages are very similar, but C# feels more streamlined somehow. < 1325779222 902995 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1325779843 352964 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: agreed < 1325780996 765372 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src iterate < 1325780996 925020 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :iterate f x = x : iterate f (f x) < 1325781053 393943 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-141.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay < 1325781124 961270 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-141.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map fst (iterate (uncurry (ap (,) . (+)))) < 1325781125 755721 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `[(a, b)]' < 1325781125 914862 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred type `(b1,... < 1325781147 951451 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-141.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map fst (iterate (uncurry (ap (,) . (+)) (1,1))) < 1325781148 745930 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `a -> a' < 1325781148 904197 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred type `(b, b)' < 1325781208 941460 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1325781237 844049 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-141.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map fst (iterate (uncurry (ap (,) . (+))) (1,1))) < 1325781238 698199 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : : parse error on input `)' < 1325781247 825914 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-141.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map fst (iterate (uncurry (ap (,) . (+))) (1,1)) < 1325781249 278971 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [1,1,2,3,5,8,13,21,34,55,89,144,233,377,610,987,1597,2584,4181,6765,10946,1... < 1325781253 649170 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-141.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Get there eventually < 1325781313 688104 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is now 251.761905 times better than Taneb. < 1325781331 210856 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :To celebrate, I'm going to sleep in a minute. < 1325781365 600947 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-141.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm the lowest ranked person on the only coolness rankings I have ever come across < 1325781391 901853 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You may live happy in the knowledge that Sgeo would rank lower. < 1325781411 847871 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1325781435 135170 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You forgot that person I'm not going to ping. < 1325781435 809624 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just one of the facts of life, Sgeo. < 1325781448 42203 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :A bitty omission. < 1325781459 288775 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vrpal? < 1325781474 300445 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lmia? < 1325781483 31891 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Madoka-Kaname: Congratulations, Phantom_Hoover hates you! < 1325781484 338142 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1325781506 943248 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, if they didn't already know that I'm disappointed in myself. < 1325781712 878827 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1325782528 286301 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :goop dnight my friendsnj < 1325782566 688356 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-141.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goodnight < 1325782842 152182 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1325783487 997907 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-141.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What time zone is he pretending to be in? < 1325783613 200830 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.nokiaphoneblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/nokia-connocting-poopie.jpg < 1325783691 323321 :MSleep!~fyrc@or-67-238-19-212.dhcp.embarqhsd.net NICK :MDude < 1325785787 744325 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: Elliott time, I'd think. < 1325786199 982385 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> length . filter ((/=1) . length . group) . S.toList . S.fromList . replicateM 5 $ "AKQJT98765432" < 1325786203 215345 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 371280 < 1325786233 91288 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> length . filter ((/=1) . length . group) . S.toList . S.fromList . map sort . replicateM 5 $ "AKQJT98765432" < 1325786235 711093 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 6175 < 1325786343 808002 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> length . S.toList . S.fromList . map sort . filter ((/=1) . length . group) . replicateM 5 $ "AKQJT98765432" < 1325786346 791434 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 6175 < 1325786349 937722 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, no. < 1325786363 673889 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> length . S.toList . S.fromList . map sort . {-filter ((/=1) . length . group) .-} replicateM 5 $ "AKQJT98765432" < 1325786366 376230 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 6188 < 1325786390 661751 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is this not yielding correct numbers... < 1325786589 494349 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@222.122.156.78 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the history of my ~/tmp directory is intriguing. the most visible thing is how i have named all those "tmp"-ish directories. < 1325786643 198598 :[PiRSq|Finnmark]!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 JOIN :#esoteric < 1325786693 175458 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@222.122.156.78 PRIVMSG #esoteric :some of the form tmp/YYYYMMDD/ (e.g. 20080801, 20090616, etc.), some of the form _/N/ (ranging from 0 to 5), some of the form old/, old2/, old3/ (i'm glad that i don't have old4/ yet), etc. < 1325786734 903087 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@222.122.156.78 PRIVMSG #esoteric :some of them contain (mutually incompatible) a.out files. < 1325786737 920292 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> permutations "ab" < 1325786738 714379 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ["ab","ba"] < 1325787017 235531 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325787060 751470 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> msum . map Last $ [Just 1, Just 2, Nothing] < 1325787061 545608 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (Control.Monad.MonadPlus Data.Monoid.Last) < 1325787061 743540 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from ... < 1325787074 618897 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> mconcat . map Last $ [Just 1, Just 2, Nothing] < 1325787076 86852 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Last {getLast = Just 2} < 1325787083 115146 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> mconcat . map Last $ [Just 1, Just 2, Nothing, Just 3] < 1325787084 584792 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Last {getLast = Just 3} < 1325787086 334596 :[PiRSq|Finnmark]!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION . < 1325787095 381483 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> mconcat . map First $ [Nothing, Just 1, Just 2, Nothing, Just 3] < 1325787096 810408 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : First {getFirst = Just 1} < 1325787240 895685 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-141.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325787241 178543 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-141.as13285.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1325787287 354633 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm a simple form of subclassing would be to have typeclass synonyms. < 1325787312 655347 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you could say Ring is MGroup and AGroup (multiplicative group and additive group) < 1325787379 795515 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-141.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325787498 10175 :Slereah!~butt@ANantes-259-1-217-73.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1325787566 680547 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-141.as13285.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1325787622 926391 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-141.as13285.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1325788372 195247 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :is elliott here (under some other nick)? < 1325788388 434078 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, ^ < 1325788402 937398 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1325788404 485972 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am elliott < 1325788448 302022 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1325788623 453700 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :my $i = $blah{lc $nick} += my $n = int(rand(5)); < 1325788626 724384 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's something so.... < 1325788631 684882 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :good about this line of code. < 1325788687 614478 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :chaining assignments and += and lexical scope declarations. < 1325788695 366930 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is the way imperative programming is meant to be. :D < 1325788782 394040 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :my $is = (my $i = $blah{lc $nick} += my $n = int(rand(5))) != 1? 's' : ''; < 1325788786 40322 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god what am I doing < 1325788896 140301 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :my $is = (my $i = $blah{lc (my $nick = $a->{body} || $a->{who})} += my $n = int(rand(5))) != 1? 's' : ''; < 1325788903 647359 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no..... I can't continue with these nested assignments. < 1325789045 255541 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-141.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325789289 3370 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-141.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've got a phantomly Haskell error that I cannot work out < 1325789304 984933 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :paste pl0x < 1325789311 695887 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-141.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hpaste.org/56121 < 1325789340 46829 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-141.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The error comes up when running with the arg "general" < 1325789370 295122 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the error. < 1325789396 162553 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-141.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*** Exception: Prelude.(!!): index too large < 1325789436 902288 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t fromAscList < 1325789437 696455 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `fromAscList' < 1325789444 38453 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t M.fromAscList < 1325789444 831523 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall k a. (Eq k) => [(k, a)] -> M.Map k a < 1325789449 801254 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t M.AscList < 1325789450 442818 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Couldn't find qualified module. < 1325789453 858478 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t M.fromList < 1325789454 613625 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall k a. (Ord k) => [(k, a)] -> M.Map k a < 1325789501 423307 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find gen_map kind of confusing, as it doesn't have a complete pattern. < 1325789509 288748 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just checks [] and ["general"] < 1325789524 72588 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-141.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm gonna add everything else < 1325789528 795939 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-141.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Later < 1325789554 184008 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-141.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really, there's going to be similar things to general but military, legal, and domestic < 1325789571 496906 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-141.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And political < 1325789591 417973 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh...kay < 1325789675 677697 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well uh... I'm guessing you have a field that isn't 4 elements large? < 1325789687 586501 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-141.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :They all have five. < 1325789693 856283 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-141.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a rectangular CSV < 1325789723 311567 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :add a print . filter ((<5).length) grid in main or something < 1325789727 61097 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1325789735 386847 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :print . filter ((<5).length) $ gris < 1325789738 910336 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*grid < 1325789793 669416 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-141.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aha < 1325789806 787361 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it grabbing a few empty elements or something? < 1325789814 530803 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-141.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's one that's [[""]] < 1325789820 862786 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I thought that might be the case. < 1325789823 718003 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something similar < 1325789829 968283 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-141.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, [""] < 1325789837 314075 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1325789855 367449 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-141.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :An init should fix this < 1325789967 300582 :_Slereah!~butt@ANantes-259-1-217-73.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1325790093 373923 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: also since you're ask_question is an IO function anyway... you can just use randomIO < 1325790109 351908 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*your < 1325790123 80866 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i was laying there thinking and it occured to me that odd numbers are gardens of eden among the numbers for the rule a' = a x 2 < 1325790135 532561 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think this is a good thing to happen to me < 1325790140 45435 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :??? < 1325790189 346925 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :an odd number is defined as an integer n for which there exists an integer k such that n = 2k+1 < 1325790229 2026 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps I misunderstand what you mean though < 1325790234 272391 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean there is no odd number a' which satisfies a' = a x 2 < 1325790253 44906 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yes < 1325790258 483963 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the definition of an even number < 1325790261 700684 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not even is odd < 1325790291 893338 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh you're talking about CA < 1325790300 146357 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :gardens of eden. < 1325790302 102994 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think? < 1325790304 63607 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no.. im trying to combine numbers and CA < 1325790335 434775 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yes.. < 1325790342 460543 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lets say a 1x1 CA with an unbounded natural numbers < 1325790367 896694 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my terminology and notations really sucks :P < 1325790392 726126 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah I got what you're saying. < 1325790395 584994 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :a*2 is a terrible CA rule < 1325790401 343762 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1325790407 814298 :_Slereah!~butt@ANantes-259-1-217-73.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr NICK :Slereah < 1325790428 78292 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :the collatz rule is far more interesting < 1325790437 70917 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has methuselahs and everything < 1325790502 308738 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am not quite familiar with the extent to which i can say things like: a' = a * 2 is a CA and on that basis to say odd numbers are gardens of eden < 1325790506 12926 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're garden of eden states in a 1x1 CA grid where the states are natural numbers, because there's no state that you can revert to from an odd number. < 1325790526 603140 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...you're basically describing a recursive equation. < 1325790554 708932 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's all shakey ground for me.. the idea makes sense but terminology and notation is not my strong thing :P < 1325790573 421789 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :you cannot say its a CA in the traditional sense < 1325790586 744625 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :since traditional CAs have locality < 1325790593 573215 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :aka a speed of light < 1325790600 162502 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like the phrase garden of eden < 1325790600 479978 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :aka bounded spheres of influence < 1325790605 213955 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :a 1x1 CA might as well be "a variable" < 1325790628 4431 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1325790628 843953 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry < 1325790636 686000 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or well... a FSA < 1325790646 451912 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :traditional CAs have finite state sets < 1325790650 622261 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is my objection < 1325790656 902694 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh... yes. < 1325790666 193945 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a FSA but an ISA (infinite state automaton :P ) < 1325790670 639213 :DCliche!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325790679 653317 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-141.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, LBA? < 1325790683 846571 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at first i thought, ahh a' = a + 1 would not have any gardens of eden in the sense i am describing < 1325790706 752264 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love misusing terminology < 1325790715 90047 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: pretty sure a LBA has more than one "cell" < 1325790730 290171 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-141.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deadfish is a linear bounded automaton < 1325790740 967985 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am almost certainly misusing terminology < 1325790750 328945 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its what i do < 1325790775 456766 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-141.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No it isn't < 1325790827 555024 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what I'm describing is a finite state automata but with an infinite set of states < 1325790855 396146 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :a LBA consists of a tape. < 1325790869 215635 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-141.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would say "infinite state automaton" is too general and misleading < 1325790889 500520 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-141.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I have now mentally redefined LBA's < 1325790892 241900 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1325790934 424827 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-141.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t M.find < 1325790935 218490 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Couldn't find qualified module. < 1325790939 583897 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-141.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t Map.find < 1325790939 742865 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes it's possible that giving a FSA an infinite set of states would make it equivalent to some other automaton but I don't really know what that would be. < 1325790940 536042 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Couldn't find qualified module. < 1325790967 883897 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-141.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A minsky machine? < 1325790999 29091 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure that that is. < 1325791006 415559 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/that/what/ < 1325791090 374491 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, hmm... minsky machines are turing machines. < 1325791114 725937 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-141.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Minsky machines with more than one register are equivalent to turing machines. < 1325791120 191885 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-141.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is quite a big difference < 1325791174 372993 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :The three counter machine base models have the same computational power since the instructions of one model can be derived from those of another. All are equivalent to the computational power of Turing machines (but only if Gödel numbers are used to encode data in the register or registers; otherwise their power is equivalent to the primitive recursive functions) < 1325792329 884510 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Waiter, there's a counter in my machine. < 1325792350 346612 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-141.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ssh, or everyone will want one! < 1325792466 309657 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :rage against the counter machine < 1325792468 380485 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(bad) < 1325792641 514652 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :counter against the rage machine < 1325792680 184970 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map unwords . permutations . words $ "rage against the machine" < 1325792681 773435 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ["rage against the machine","against rage the machine","the against rage ma... < 1325792724 656439 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> permutations "RATM" < 1325792725 491710 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ["RATM","ARTM","TARM","ATRM","TRAM","RTAM","MTAR","TMAR","TAMR","MATR","AMT... < 1325792730 856231 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :TRAM. < 1325792747 348582 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the against rage machine < 1325792756 674520 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> permutations "RATCM" < 1325792757 488944 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ["RATCM","ARTCM","TARCM","ATRCM","TRACM","RTACM","CTARM","TCARM","TACRM","C... < 1325792797 749618 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Against the machine rage counter. < 1325792815 673221 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: What's the current value of the machine rage counter? < 1325792815 871101 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: this is a man to treasure. the thief in the throes of an unraveling alibi. " the massacre of syrs gnelph was not as written a message you got, my brother, and we just keep the safe or tub handy or is the fact that this is apparently a bull penis, and a rather piss-poor excuse. we 8oth of us, the whole plan hinged on that. < 1325792819 960851 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the machine counter against rage < 1325792948 715323 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Daily trivia factoid: Chrono Cross has 45 playable characters, each with a unique accent. The common dialogue was not, in fact, manually rewritten for each character, but instead generated by running a generic version through an accent generator based on simple rewrite rules. < 1325794103 6105 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1325794210 627589 :[PiRSq|Finnmark]!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 QUIT :Quit: bye bye FINNMARK puffin < 1325796064 563485 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1325796069 91113 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, is that actually a factoid? < 1325796105 520528 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no TOPIC #esoteric :Official channel of the frequent stupid topic change plurality: the Sequel Prequel, part Three | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1325796178 556329 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :evning < 1325796365 902430 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : since this comment will be possibly damaging i will say it as a riddle. what word is 6 letters long and contains the letters 'M', 'A' and 'X' < 1325796373 414202 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"scotland", duh < 1325796387 516564 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like people weren't paying attention < 1325796566 437688 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : Phantom_Hoover: Well... Helsinki is rather bigger than Hexham. <-- are you including the obvious dimensional twistings here? < 1325796821 296631 :qfr!void@unaffiliated/yw QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1325796873 967617 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : Wow, that actually made me yawn. <-- gjeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeesp < 1325796904 129315 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess it doesn't work if he's already sleeping. < 1325796977 865566 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t build < 1325796978 539905 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `build' < 1325796981 520331 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle build < 1325796981 841832 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :GHC.Exts build :: (forall b. (a -> b -> b) -> b -> b) -> [a] < 1325796981 998178 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Graph.Inductive.Internal.Heap build :: Ord a => [(a, b)] -> Heap a b < 1325796982 155388 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Graphics.Rendering.OpenGL.GLU.Mipmapping build1DMipmaps :: TextureTarget -> PixelInternalFormat -> GLsizei -> PixelData a -> IO () < 1325797022 864858 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1325797211 820418 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t let build :: (forall b. (a -> b -> b) -> b -> b) -> [a]; build b = b (:) [] in build < 1325797212 614287 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (forall b. (a -> b -> b) -> b -> b) -> [a] < 1325797283 108513 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-231-78.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325797293 176199 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-117.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1325797296 814138 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-4-250.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1325797297 132050 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-4-250.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1325797297 288666 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1325797304 881353 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-19-212.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1325797363 194094 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1325797407 691386 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t let build :: (forall b. (a -> b -> b) -> b -> b) -> [a]; build b = b (:) []; iterate f x = build (b x) where { b x cons nil = cons x (b (f x) cons nil) } in iterate < 1325797408 487374 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (a -> a) -> a -> [a] < 1325797605 161446 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1325797779 235579 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-19-212.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325797818 587424 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu < 1325798031 489726 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :17:59:23: > length . S.toList . S.fromList . map sort . {-filter ((/=1) . length . group) .-} replicateM 5 $ "AKQJT98765432" < 1325798034 767750 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :17:59:26: 6188 < 1325798037 313652 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :17:59:50: why is this not yielding correct numbers... < 1325798045 952857 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would rather depend on what you are trying to calculate. < 1325800424 902861 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: number of distinct combinations in a 5-card hand. < 1325800649 993706 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How are Smalltalk's Bags structured? < 1325800664 754327 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: ic, i cannot see any error either, then < 1325800672 885860 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or are they similar to Set and ordered by identity or something? < 1325800833 777664 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: as long as you are meant to ignore suits, that is < 1325800879 421839 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes that's why it's different < 1325800894 918755 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh XD < 1325800991 601224 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> product [52-4 .. 52] `div` product [1..5] -- is this the right answer? < 1325800992 394889 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 2598960 < 1325801066 454073 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or are you meant to ignore some suit differences but not others. < 1325801096 895751 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(e.g. ignore except when a flush is involved) < 1325801216 12442 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, so apparently Romney beat Santorum by 8 votes < 1325801232 482531 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i read that in the (norwegian) paper < 1325801237 482496 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the US doesn't use the UK's recount mechanism < 1325801287 155660 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in the UK, votes are counted by hand, sorting them into piles by candidate; if the vote count is close, then they check each of the individual piles again, and if it's particularly close even after that, they keep repeating the process until everyone's happy all the votes are in the right place) < 1325801303 154611 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and if there's any dispute as to who a vote is for, they make the candidates debate it until they all agree) < 1325801309 26391 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i recall it's a caucus, which uses even more unpredictable voting methods, it may even be by showing hands... < 1325801322 669435 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1325801339 870565 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently it was done with check marks or by writing names in by hand < 1325801388 311156 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(iowa uses caucus, that is; the next one (new hampshire) uses more conventional voting) < 1325801515 590489 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, leap second announced in June < 1325801594 565638 :derdon!~derdon@pD9E1CB12.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325801845 475478 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : What is the fundamental and real concept of roulette? < 1325801852 541627 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1325801872 912865 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tests the russian version on spambot. *BLAM* < 1325801873 548436 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1325801911 526031 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1325801974 947431 :DCliche!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net NICK :Klisz < 1325802056 897458 :iconmaster!~iconmaste@cpe-74-79-18-174.twcny.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1325802094 237347 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: no there's no special case for flushes < 1325802100 153264 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1325802122 246538 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-141.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like writing Comments on a Postcards, because they are published long after I have forgotten them, and I think: "this sounds familiar" < 1325802130 326012 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-141.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then oerjan tells me I wrote it < 1325802180 581540 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1325802242 457135 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu < 1325802303 632735 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1325802418 193296 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-162-141.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: ask Phantom_Hoover if you're curious < 1325802445 126534 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :strange coincidence: i called the isp on Dec 29 because the connection was flaky. since the day after i did that, i've noticed no problems, so i assumed they had somehow fixed it. although they had said they would send a new router, which arrived today. < 1325802460 110540 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and just now the connection dropped again. < 1325802479 530902 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess i'll have to actually install it soon :D < 1325802543 807719 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i'm not actually the direct customer, my landlady is, but she knows approx. 0.01 about computers.) < 1325802615 701754 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : oerjan: no there's no special case for flushes <-- you didn't say whether my product quotient gave the right answer, though. < 1325802664 366531 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess your version isn't right either with the filter or without? (the latter would correspond to using more than one 52 card deck, i think.) < 1325802787 719654 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle [a] -> [[a]] < 1325802787 877809 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.List inits :: [a] -> [[a]] < 1325802788 35971 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.List permutations :: [a] -> [[a]] < 1325802788 194771 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.List subsequences :: [a] -> [[a]] < 1325802834 143703 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hmmmm? the filter is used to get rid of the 5-of-a-kind cases which are impossible < 1325802845 929518 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: that's what i implied < 1325802855 337458 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the rest corresponds to a 52 card deck. the reason the results are different is because all of the suits are considered the same. < 1325802865 850072 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1325802886 556572 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but _your_ calculation assumes the suits are the same, and you said they were wrong < 1325802892 255941 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1325802899 890094 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1325802900 801096 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's wrong < 1325802911 226009 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you care about suits < 1325802912 940107 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not otherwise. < 1325802918 872184 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1325802919 746899 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION facepalm < 1325802977 467485 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_> < 1325803008 277021 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe your product quotient is the correct answer is distinct combinations are what you're looking for. < 1325803020 627517 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :aka 52C5 < 1325803022 319384 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1325803025 434428 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1325803026 955701 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not C < 1325803029 14925 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other one < 1325803033 20852 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er wait < 1325803033 498518 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1325803033 974476 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :C < 1325803034 607761 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1325803051 266788 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i believe it's very hard to help people when they don't make it clear whether you've found the correct answer or not. < 1325803094 994546 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is: < 1325803100 512414 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poker_probability < 1325803106 770501 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the distinct number < 1325803112 917620 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is 7,462 < 1325803118 511815 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm getting 6000-something < 1325803129 202157 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume "distinct" means "ignoring suit" < 1325803251 749903 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> length . S.toList . S.fromList . map sort . {-filter ((/=1) . length . group) .-} replicateM 5 $ "AKQJT98765432" < 1325803254 461960 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 6188 < 1325803261 915724 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> length . S.toList . S.fromList . map sort . filter ((/=1) . length . group) . replicateM 5 $ "AKQJT98765432" < 1325803265 29876 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 6175 < 1325803284 404090 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> length . filter ((/=1) . length . group) . replicateM 5 $ "AKQJT98765432" < 1325803286 149506 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 371280 < 1325803364 456051 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: the flush case does not ignore suit < 1325803377 208421 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1325803434 974049 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm... are you sure < 1325803448 669029 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would seem that if that were the case then the "distinct" and "frequency" columns would be the same for flush. < 1325803462 867962 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait does it < 1325803471 952604 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 1277*4 < 1325803472 667776 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 5108 < 1325803481 702003 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok you're right < 1325803504 769095 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I... I really don't know what's wrong. < 1325803515 774214 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor is it incredibly important either. but, it would be nice to know. < 1325803556 80804 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 13*12*11/2 < 1325803556 878774 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 858.0 < 1325803586 550033 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-239-196.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325803587 905740 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-231-78.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1325803591 792638 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 4*4*13*12*11/2 < 1325803592 429301 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 13728.0 < 1325803597 186872 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm no < 1325803610 442121 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 4*13*12*11/2 < 1325803611 236130 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 3432.0 < 1325803616 388467 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> replicateM 5 "ABC" < 1325803617 180428 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ["AAAAA","AAAAB","AAAAC","AAABA","AAABB","AAABC","AAACA","AAACB","AAACC","A... < 1325803618 451806 :MSleep!~fyrc@or-67-238-19-212.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325803626 602787 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> sum [1,9,156,156,1277,10,858,858,2860,1277] < 1325803627 435214 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 7462 < 1325803664 391519 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> sequence ["abc", "abc", "abc", "abc", "abc"] -- Sgeo < 1325803665 208158 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ["aaaaa","aaaab","aaaac","aaaba","aaabb","aaabc","aaaca","aaacb","aaacc","a... < 1325803670 412055 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm wait < 1325803698 117576 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 7462-1277 < 1325803698 793449 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 6185 < 1325803712 46548 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ic < 1325803742 45847 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's because the flushes count approximately double < 1325803780 986683 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :most combinations that can give a flush can also give something else if the suits _don't_ match < 1325803792 759129 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1325803795 856019 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yes. < 1325803823 278676 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-19-212.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1325803884 318174 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-19-212.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325803888 720530 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so suit is still important when calculating distinct possibilities < 1325803900 288253 :MSleep!~fyrc@or-67-238-19-212.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1325804002 884286 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 7462-(1277+10+1) < 1325804003 518927 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 6174 < 1325804007 607313 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1325804015 650982 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 7462-(1277+9+1) < 1325804016 444502 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 6175 < 1325804048 613164 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :subtracting all the flush variations gives your number < 1325804083 446784 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so my calculation is basically counting the distinct combinations of a sequence of card ranks from a deck. < 1325804096 53193 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er... < 1325804098 117034 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :worded better < 1325804110 905023 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not the distinct number of poker hands, ignoring suit. < 1325804153 892765 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1325804200 953849 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, I like you've got a 50/50 chance of just getting a really shitty hand < 1325804212 753485 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :50% of just a high card. < 1325804222 912135 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming that the deck is full even. < 1325804254 947439 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then the probabilities of everything else drop hugely < 1325804308 572343 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is why I'm bad at poker < 1325804310 714150 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not lucky enough. < 1325804381 863224 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I'd be better at lowball poker. < 1325804390 960595 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hear luck has almost nothing to do with it. < 1325804395 956458 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so have I. < 1325804420 828274 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, making money with poker requires skill < 1325804422 737957 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :getting good hands < 1325804424 360678 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :requires luck. < 1325804498 807503 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1325804526 480482 :iconmaster!~iconmaste@cpe-74-79-18-174.twcny.res.rr.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1325804629 191285 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would think lowball rules severely fucks up the game/ < 1325804654 354756 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that betting is essentially much riskier. < 1325804959 186646 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh wait... < 1325804961 727773 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :A wheel or bicycle is the poker hand 5-4-3-2-A, regardless of suit, which is a five-high straight, the lowest-ranking of the straights. < 1325804964 780377 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :In ace-to-five low poker, where aces are allowed to play as low and straights and flushes do not count against a hand's "low" status, this is the best possible hand. < 1325804973 549396 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's lame. straights and flushes should count against your hand's lowness < 1325805002 490519 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should calculate the priority of your hand as normal, and then invert the ordering. < 1325805075 65706 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deuce-to-seven low is often called Kansas City lowball (the no-limit single-draw variation) or just "low poker". It is almost the direct opposite of standard poker: high hand loses. It is not as commonly used as the ace-to-five low method. < 1325805098 547246 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so then the best hand would be 7-5-4-3-2 < 1325805156 651471 :DCliche!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325805167 866216 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would otherwise be the worst possible hand in the game. < 1325805375 179233 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus the deuce-to-seven low hands sound cooler. "Seven perfect", "the nuts", "number one", "eight perfect", "rough eighty-six", "eighty-seven smooth", "average eight", "rough eighty-seven", "nine perfect" < 1325805379 935725 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1325805706 978027 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm oh ace-to-six low is similar to deuce-to-seven except that aces are considered low. < 1325806953 657101 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION → sleep < 1325806954 448224 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1325807517 820929 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325807755 102485 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1325808415 310154 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1325808453 907178 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :AUGH I DON'T WANT TO BE SEVENTEEN ARGH < 1325808455 57202 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Client Quit < 1325809086 156750 :NihilistDandy!~NihilistD@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com < 1325809356 356704 :jix!~jix@dronf.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1325809499 782327 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1325809533 565282 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325809748 562765 :kallisti!~eris@h72.45.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325809748 880911 :kallisti!~eris@h72.45.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Changing host < 1325809749 36682 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1325809781 798672 :jix!~jix@dronf.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325810198 606023 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1325812661 266233 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1325812860 233621 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sorry, you cannot just laugh like that out of the blue. this is a serious channel. < 1325812916 730394 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no TOPIC #esoteric :Official revolting channel of the frequent stupid topic change plurality: the Sequel Prequel, part Three | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1325812933 916947 :DCliche!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :>:/ < 1325813059 921050 :DCliche!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net NICK :Klisz < 1325813119 632877 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-154-130.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325813126 587624 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-239-196.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1325813372 668938 :DCliche!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325813545 718480 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1325813575 236944 :qfr!void@unaffiliated/yw JOIN :#esoteric < 1325814758 665306 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The fully qualified name of the original subroutine magically appears in the global $AUTOLOAD variable of the same package as the AUTOLOAD routine. The name is not passed as an ordinary argument because, er, well, just because, that's why." < 1325815860 338823 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net NICK :myndzi < 1325815887 630143 :derdon!~derdon@pD9E1CB12.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1325816045 856036 :Darth_Cliche!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325816262 549127 :DCliche!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1325816759 821332 :Darth_Cliche!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net NICK :Klisz < 1325817356 439127 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1325817480 434394 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1325818831 209430 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1325820015 611414 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1325820036 273758 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bleh, I've been neglecting my IOCCC submission and there are only 6 days left for me to rememebr how it works < 1325821402 680601 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1325821456 603831 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1325823442 847723 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325823513 633497 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1325824129 924824 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-19-212.dhcp.embarqhsd.net NICK :MSleep < 1325824331 253215 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1325825216 422181 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1325825327 218287 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric : oh < 1325826181 628541 :yorick!~yorick@unaffiliated/yorick QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1325826343 6848 :yorick!~yorick@unaffiliated/yorick JOIN :#esoteric < 1325827349 726559 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.17/2009122204] < 1325827381 219923 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz JOIN :#esoteric < 1325827743 674788 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1325828500 753146 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1325830542 171601 :DCliche!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325830756 418686 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1325831696 794912 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325831760 334616 :DCliche!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1325832041 286475 :DCliche!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325832068 146722 :DCliche!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1325832087 956016 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1325832578 61060 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net NICK :myndzi < 1325838421 530857 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1325838573 832921 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1325838749 146515 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325842501 279485 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell Phantom_Hoover Factoids need not be factually accurate; anyway, there's a dude in the "developer room" ending saying it's programmatically generated, and I think also implying it's rule-based, though I'm not entirely certain about that. < 1325842501 596393 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1325844252 399973 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? wisdom < 1325844263 935505 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :wisdom? ¯\(°_o)/¯ < 1325844294 988268 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls bin < 1325844298 41069 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​? \ @ \ No \ addquote \ allquotes \ calc \ define \ delquote \ etymology \ forget \ fortune \ frink \ google \ hatesgeo \ json \ k \ karma \ karma+ \ karma- \ learn \ log \ logurl \ macro \ marco \ paste \ pastekarma \ pastelog \ pastelogs \ pastenquotes \ pastequotes \ pastewisdom \ pastlog \ ping \ prefixes \ qc \ quote \ quotes \ roll \ toutf8 \ translate \ translatefromto \ translateto \ units \ url \ welcome \ wl \ word \ words \ wtf < 1325844344 686174 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`define wisdom is always factually accurate, except for this entry < 1325844350 188585 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1325844356 611333 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? wisdom < 1325844360 381591 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :wisdom? ¯\(°_o)/¯ < 1325844363 391055 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1325844371 977091 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, it's learn < 1325844378 914771 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn wisdom is always factually accurate, except for this entry < 1325844383 8258 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I knew that. < 1325844386 701677 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? wisdom < 1325844390 408943 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :wisdom is always factually accurate, except for this entry < 1325844620 39591 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`define wisdom < 1325844623 633195 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​\ Looking up 127.0.0.1:3128 \ Making HTTP connection to 127.0.0.1:3128 \ Sending HTTP request. \ HTTP request sent; waiting for response. \ Alert!: Unexpected network read error; connection aborted. \ Can't Access `http://google.com/search?q=define:%77%69%73%64%6f%6d' \ Alert!: Unable to access document. \ \ lynx: Can't access startfile < 1325844631 847587 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very good. < 1325845041 922452 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1325845043 616435 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :awww yeah my bot is officially better than lambdabot < 1325845052 719682 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it checks identification on bot admins. < 1325845138 16357 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know a chess variant called "Pole chess", where there is one extra piece it is a pole. Pole starts off-board, it cannot capture or be captured, but it can go to any vacant cell. < 1325845178 96260 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I played this game once, and I won; neither of us have used the poles but their existence still affected our strategies even though the poles never entered the board. < 1325845455 214700 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, even the rule of the game that are never used can sometimes affect the strategy. < 1325845759 187567 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1325846920 10319 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reborn elliott. Rebelliott. < 1325846976 253070 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rebelliorn < 1325847015 18178 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ellebott < 1325847015 335177 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. < 1325847027 401329 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: hi < 1325847049 918865 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hi there. I wanted you for something yesterday but I can't remember what it was :/ < 1325847283 135699 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey QUIT :Quit: The Other Game < 1325847301 727752 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: great < 1325847304 45631 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember either < 1325847324 634537 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that is pretty easy to explain: you weren't in the channel at the time < 1325847388 741815 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whew, IOCCC submission in < 1325847402 941905 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should really test it on more compilers, but I know I won't < 1325847406 647006 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so gcc and clang will have to do < 1325847407 796862 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh you are competing in IOCCC? Sounds fun :) < 1325847416 808497 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I think I said as much earlier < 1325847422 122519 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :IOCCC is going on? < 1325847427 747236 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: yep, only 6 days left < 1325847430 866820 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I don't read /everything/ in this channel. < 1325847431 25479 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a few hours < 1325847438 227673 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is augustss competing? < 1325847438 383902 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you'd better hurry if you want to get an entry in < 1325847449 243222 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor has submitted a portable JIT < 1325847451 366934 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, do you think you might be able to win? < 1325847463 608288 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what sort of submission did you make? < 1325847471 924930 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "JIT"? More like "at least 6 days in advance" < 1325847472 400514 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :short program < 1325847489 130285 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I wouldn't enter it if I weren't trying to win < 1325847493 907955 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I guess I'll get serious competition < 1325847496 127360 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well okay < 1325847507 651214 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so what does your program do? < 1325847507 807814 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hopefully what I'm doing is unique enough to get through < 1325847514 623969 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know another chess variant, set up the board with sixteen dices of your color, 1=Pawn, 2=Knight, 3=Bishop, 4=Rook, 5=Queen, 6=King. After move, you *must* change the moved piece but is not allowed to change it to the opposite number so that it add to 7. Any player with no 6 is loser. < 1325847519 136269 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the part that people have to try to figure out, isn't it? < 1325847544 841585 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well you said Gregor made a portable JIT for example. I'm just asking for a description on that level of detail < 1325847546 746616 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it was more concerned with the way it does things, rather than what it does < 1325847567 424419 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It means, the king cannot escape... but you can appoint a new king, or protected by blocking or capturing the attacker. < 1325847569 530593 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :though a portable JIT is quite impressive. < 1325847570 24627 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it involves stack-smashing, portably of course, and not using a language feature that's been used in every submission so far (apart from a couple of cheats) < 1325847589 511721 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can stack-smash portably? < 1325847591 806196 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is news to me < 1325847592 756653 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also means bare king loses since you will be forced to move it and therefore to change it. < 1325847594 185539 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1325847597 639930 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like you can JIT portably < 1325847602 108385 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofc, it's just smashing values, not code < 1325847608 985697 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, /pretty/ sure it is undefined behaviour to stack smash < 1325847623 545611 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does a whole load of undefined behaviour deliberately < 1325847630 682115 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it isn't portable < 1325847632 29336 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :A large majority of ioccc winners have involved undefined behaviour < 1325847632 823640 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I started, and then I just kept on going < 1325847634 291331 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is no castling, en-passan, promotion. < 1325847640 201183 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's portable if it runs on most machines, isn't it? < 1325847647 756182 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not strictly conforming, but that's something entirely different < 1325847659 522697 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I would say portable to mean strictly conforming in the context of IOCCC yeah < 1325847667 210610 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't < 1325847669 904480 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1325847671 215552 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :based on what they've accepted in the past < 1325847672 800444 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: anything more portable than mullender is given serious consideration < 1325847675 139096 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well okay < 1325847681 565954 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet, mullender? < 1325847689 217737 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or perhaps that later flight simulator using motif < 1325847695 441683 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right < 1325847698 450780 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1325847705 893022 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well true, I forgot about that < 1325847708 669599 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't know mullender? < 1325847711 221089 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wasn't exactly portable < 1325847714 141476 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the flight sim) < 1325847723 741744 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet, if I do I don't remember the name of it < 1325847726 793455 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :tell me what it is < 1325847739 289908 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm terrible at remembering names) < 1325847741 824700 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.ioccc.org/1984/mullender.c < 1325847765 638388 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1325847776 161185 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet, which machine? < 1325847795 190810 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :mullender? vax/pdp polyglot. < 1325847798 802484 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1325847820 497682 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet, how did they respond to that one? reject it? < 1325847836 761737 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every file on their site is a winner. < 1325847849 495129 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :winner for rules abuse or whatnot? < 1325847849 813865 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh okay, thought they published all < 1325847851 238107 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1325847893 423703 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet, hm I wonder if gcc would accept that sort of stuff... < 1325847901 285994 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure < 1325847908 978610 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? hm < 1325847924 294263 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone ported it to geordi/linux/i686 < 1325847929 248991 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet, I would expect it to end up in .data rather than .text < 1325847941 62712 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means it would be marked NX and thus not be executable < 1325847952 754910 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least on x86-64 < 1325847977 379982 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might not work on amd64 then < 1325848014 100242 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor on modern CPUs at all. You can do NX on anything that supports x86-64 even in 32-bit mode (though you need to turn on PAE for that) < 1325848023 610740 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it depends on where gcc places it I guess < 1325848035 680232 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only if the system decides to use NX < 1325848048 62410 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well linux does. Don't think you can turn it off < 1325848052 23828 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe Windows, for example, allows turning it off < 1325848068 81414 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you can force it off for a given program < 1325848075 311138 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :some compatibility personality thingy < 1325848089 162792 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1325848091 321800 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523, I would say portable to mean strictly conforming in the context of IOCCC yeah < 1325848096 861299 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Thus outlawing about 50% of IOCCC winners < 1325848102 933711 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I realised I was wrong a few lines below :P < 1325848109 731434 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :More like 90% < 1325848113 236055 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Jafet, how did they respond to that one? reject it? < 1325848113 394327 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Every file on their site is a winner. < 1325848117 424210 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Changing the rules. < 1325848122 657918 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, right < 1325848129 15763 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: one thing I find really ironic is that they updated the abuse of the standards category to allow abuse of C99 < 1325848132 28577 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's ironic because C11 is out now < 1325848139 397762 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha < 1325848146 136333 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc compiles C11 now? < 1325848160 186542 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so < 1325848170 793299 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :C11 is really new, it was released right near the end of 2011 < 1325848180 968506 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's right near the start of 2012 right now < 1325848196 669064 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet, that would surprise me. It might support a few of the new things if they happened to be available as gcc extensions < 1325848197 937430 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, they tend to use gcc as the standard < 1325848210 680759 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: a few of the new things happen to be gcc extensions already < 1325848214 686485 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as usual < 1325848216 309945 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I believe gnu99 is the current default < 1325848223 286954 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :things tend to get standardised if every existing compiler does them already < 1325848225 589520 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, right, I haven't really checked in detail what is new. < 1325848239 550240 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :17:11:27: What time zone is he pretending to be in? < 1325848239 706406 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :17:49:47: Ngevd: Elliott time, I'd think. < 1325848239 706605 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bingo. < 1325848243 901306 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: gcc 4.6 does -std=c1x < 1325848244 852770 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC. < 1325848251 540036 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1325848262 996789 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: option introduced before they knew what the standard would be called? < 1325848264 457826 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I can't check, I'm on an old system atm < 1325848275 498187 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :18:03:09: the history of my ~/tmp directory is intriguing. the most visible thing is how i have named all those "tmp"-ish directories. < 1325848275 656736 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :18:04:53: some of the form tmp/YYYYMMDD/ (e.g. 20080801, 20090616, etc.), some of the form _/N/ (ranging from 0 to 5), some of the form old/, old2/, old3/ (i'm glad that i don't have old4/ yet), etc. < 1325848275 812754 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :18:05:34: some of them contain (mutually incompatible) a.out files. < 1325848280 184629 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir: At least your mess is confined to ~/tmp. < 1325848284 108311 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Well, okay, it might not be.) < 1325848292 230886 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: release released before they knew that, I think < 1325848294 810260 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well, gcc 4.6 is quite recent, and they probably figured it would be between 2011 and 2019 < 1325848298 182113 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's probably not very complete yet < 1325848302 672087 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I guess they felt safe about the name < 1325848313 343397 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(iirc gcc 4.6 was released 2011) < 1325848314 966842 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't call it -std=c11 even if the gods told me it would be released under that name. < 1325848323 730091 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because you're still implementing a draft standard, not C11 itself. < 1325848324 898474 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I almost wrote "this year" before I remembered it is 2012) < 1325848365 804560 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : lifthrasiir: At least your mess is confined to ~/tmp. <-- I have a similar situation, though ~ itself gets a bit messy too sometimes < 1325848370 691322 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I try to avoid that though < 1325848381 507487 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: This is why you use the elliott-standard organisation system. < 1325848393 72499 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, subdirs other than ~/tmp and ~/Desktop are in perfect order though :P < 1325848395 21573 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admittedly, the main mess-avoider there is that shells start in ~/tmp :p < 1325848418 56606 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hah < 1325848437 506618 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I use actual /tmp for temporaries < 1325848444 837663 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's amusing to look in /var/tmp sometimes < 1325848449 79165 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, my ~/tmp is more like /var/tmp < 1325848451 378864 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I store files there which are temporary but need to survive reboots < 1325848458 301553 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1325848459 172841 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of them, was left there for over a year < 1325848463 461428 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1325848468 335144 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I finally did what I wanted to do with it a few days ago < 1325848485 871460 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :-rw-r--r-- 1 ais523 ais523 32956 2010-10-31 14:24 Königsberg_bridges.png < 1325848493 439543 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm I have test.c test2.c ... test7.c in ~ < 1325848498 193268 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to check what they are for < 1325848517 309294 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh nooo, not more Ngevd code debugging in the logs. < 1325848521 152303 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :char (*(*f)(int,int))[7]; < 1325848522 578969 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :wut? < 1325848526 227005 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be acceptable if he actually integrated the suggestions that didn't directly fix his bug from last time. < 1325848527 178067 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that even valid? < 1325848537 840710 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me try to decode it < 1325848543 583286 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So instead you have to mentally patch(1) the code with your previous fixes to understand wtf he's done to it this time. < 1325848552 379532 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how do you define an array of function pointers in C without using a typedef? < 1325848559 359695 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that is what I tried to do and failed < 1325848568 513921 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :char (*f[7])(int,int); < 1325848569 780563 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :methinks < 1325848575 767287 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1325848576 877875 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :declaration follows use < 1325848578 463572 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly < 1325848579 618431 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(*f[7])(42,42) < 1325848582 771408 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pointer to function that takes two integer arguments and returns a pointer to an array of 7 chars < 1325848584 712193 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is Vorpal's line < 1325848590 338785 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: right, so not valid < 1325848594 177924 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1325848601 55844 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :declaration follows use is actually a really simple rule to apply < 1325848605 574339 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the [7] goes after the function name < 1325848606 563879 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1325848620 996728 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :char (*(f[7]))(int,int); is what I make it < 1325848627 731742 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :lets try that < 1325848629 37529 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1325848635 573555 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is probably equivalent to elliott's, because of operator precedence < 1325848655 552620 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that compiles < 1325848704 803729 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cdecl.org translates elliott's suggestion to "declare f as array 7 of pointer to function (int, int) returning char" < 1325848712 277248 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and mine to the same thing < 1325848725 733081 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1325848871 849873 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :DEAR PEOPLE PROPOSING EDITS ON SO: You're not meant to *fix* the grammar of "thanks" lines, you're meant to *remove* them! < 1325848908 735116 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1325848992 208001 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: wouldn't it be great if you had like data Expr = Lit Integer | ... and then could say < 1325848994 777292 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :eval :: Expr -> Integer < 1325848997 193756 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :eval . Lit = id < 1325849002 298537 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :as one of the clauses < 1325849015 66717 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be great, i refuse to believe being able to use compositions on the LHS wouldn't be graet < 1325849018 925810 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :great < 1325849024 670240 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :grate < 1325849128 482787 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like that is a thing i really want a lot < 1325849201 623866 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Expr = Lit Integer | Add Expr Expr < 1325849203 157224 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :eval . Lit = id < 1325849208 906721 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(eval .) . Add = liftA2 (+) eval eval < 1325849212 39758 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the most beautifulest < 1325849212 991199 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1325849221 36743 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is Phantom_Hoover 17 now < 1325849227 900440 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yikes / yikes < 1325849228 59098 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1325849228 376111 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. < 1325849248 39102 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ok nice knowing you /ignored forever < 1325849258 980274 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie said 1h 52m 11s ago: Factoids need not be factually accurate; < 1325849282 3654 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The definition is that they're not factual at all, IIRC? < 1325849300 43834 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I think that definition appeared about ~30 seconds before it started meaning "small fact" instead. < 1325849313 24656 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prescriptivists talk about the Great 30 Seconds of Peace and Meaning. < 1325849346 203352 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a Great 30 Seconds they were < 1325849358 975018 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so much PEaace, and MEaning too < 1325849993 910578 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1325850664 26938 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1325851860 539901 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1325853178 197777 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1325853728 383333 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1325853992 732603 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :HAPPY BIRTHDAY DO YOU, HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO YOOOOOOU, HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO PHANTOM_HOOVER, HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO YOOOU < 1325854132 774671 :derdon!~derdon@pD9E1C4AA.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325854201 229775 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no TOPIC #esoteric :Official revolting channel of the frequent stupid topic change plurality, the Prequel: The Birthday Menace | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1325854630 525486 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey oerjan, given two distinct types A and B that you are allowed to choose yourself, can you implement foo :: (A ~ B) => Void < 1325854641 126400 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, it's easy with A = (), B = Void < 1325854649 258494 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but choosing Void as one of them is cheating :) < 1325854705 695602 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo = unsafeCoerce < 1325854710 399457 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dunno, won't ghc complain if i choose two concrete types which are obviously not ~ ? < 1325854753 623020 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has never used a ~ in his own program, so may not be the right person to ask anyway < 1325854820 531339 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know what A ~ B really allows you to do, especially if it's false. < 1325854873 773105 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm you know what I want. < 1325854882 579585 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :a Perl 5 JIT compiler. < 1325855060 703366 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the question is.... < 1325855064 870800 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, how do you parse Perl? < 1325855084 208240 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't. < 1325855088 938403 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can execute Perl. < 1325855095 243889 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, obviously. < 1325855103 34063 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I write perl code because it's aesthetically beautiful < 1325855105 500478 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not because it /runs/. < 1325855110 810194 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can execute Perl. < 1325855113 703237 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't parse Perl. < 1325855120 404816 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you're a Turing Machine. < 1325855128 145384 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you are Turing Machine, the process looks exactly like executing Perl. < 1325855128 940599 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*are a < 1325855132 655128 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :..... < 1325855133 963749 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what. < 1325855143 268412 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1325855144 536264 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1325855152 134850 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, he means that parsing perl without executing it can't be done < 1325855154 294636 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, Perl 6 largely originated from the fact that nobody else has ever successfully written a Perl 5 interpreter, as it is defined entirely by its mammoth implementation. < 1325855154 965917 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :right. < 1325855159 625572 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, not with a UTM < 1325855168 833572 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :still imagine... < 1325855170 261070 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So: Tough. < 1325855170 736685 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl 5 JIT < 1325855189 723301 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :why on earth < 1325855202 192170 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I like perl 5 but don't like that it's slow. < 1325855243 528258 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it might be possible to JIT it in some limited fashion I guess. Probably rather tricky and also not worth the work < 1325855257 231519 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If my experience with kallisti's code is any indicator, Perl isn't slow. kallisti's algorithms are slow. < 1325855272 273504 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1325855288 995204 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well perl is slow as well < 1325855307 888875 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what experience? what algorithms? :P < 1325855342 319002 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: words, that factoring thing. < 1325855363 27324 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :words is pretty reasonably fast. how would you make it faster? < 1325855396 59095 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was the generation script. I don't remember what was stupid, but something was stupid. < 1325855399 904410 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`words --portuguese 50 < 1325855407 349359 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :gazedorarifíciar fosfomeçais afarem coralizareis apolar deprimente lantine desencada mimento deslizares quariarás estregá acharpedras arrotado reológica enlaçarei atono imbranslapsulti susaracara crimina evas velmejas ensionariá apanhá dista bambeltancasseis descorrebera pelarias abrido expecerem balação acenço aviamos cilizará navassem fortarem cachegar desenjoa opelão ananejei desproxaria frescorar < 1325855410 393827 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you disliked the regex < 1325855413 371682 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :which was... kind of essential. < 1325855430 105231 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes I shouldn't have written that in perl. < 1325855459 260703 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mainly didn't like that it was perl. < 1325855491 859346 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, is the generation script slow? < 1325855521 823266 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but I don't think it's because of the algorithm. < 1325855523 642860 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway regular expressions is not essential to anything, it is just convenient < 1325855536 85309 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: I am dead sure it is. < 1325855537 946115 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, what is the complexity of the algorithm? < 1325855544 528906 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The problem is not your language, the problem is almost never your language. < 1325855556 96144 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Perl regex is essential. it's also faster than handrolling the equivalent code that doesn't exist in perl libraries. < 1325855565 300439 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless the best algorithm for the job has an exponentiation in a bad place, or the data set is over ~10 gigabytes, the problem is never your language. < 1325855573 244820 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, sure, but that is perl < 1325855576 984732 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is a) file IO b) perl < 1325855577 142568 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :who said it had to be perl? < 1325855585 918022 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it doesn't < 1325855594 996139 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1325855599 358958 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes? < 1325855599 993544 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you look I above I say < 1325855603 717543 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"in Perl regex is essential" < 1325855606 738847 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then go on to explain why that is < 1325855611 517398 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus the relevance... < 1325855614 211330 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1325855636 58772 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, anyway, what is the complexity of your algorithm? < 1325855637 645929 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I don't know what the complexity is because I'm bad at that. < 1325855644 470868 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1325855676 221253 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm suuure it isn't the algorithm. < 1325855694 785439 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, why don't you calculate the complexity of the algorithm? < 1325855710 227938 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :also: why not just profile it and see where it spends time. < 1325855720 202256 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if such tools are available for perl) < 1325855741 80052 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...really, how am I going to make "loop through file by line, take first word, split into grams and store in a table" faster (in perl)? < 1325855742 31305 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ...Because it's not my code? < 1325855774 220547 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair enough < 1325855794 479959 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, well, which bit was slow? < 1325855794 636400 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: http://prog21.dadgum.com/52.html < 1325855809 549221 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Before complaining that it's a different language starting with P, consider how gigantic a constant factor you would need for that to matter. < 1325855822 763862 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The problem is not the language. < 1325855827 841207 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(by which I mean implementation.) < 1325855850 876628 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: before you preemptively say snide things, consider maybe waiting for a reason to say them. < 1325855878 240965 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah. < 1325855887 475282 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1325855914 684993 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe if it was just snide, rather than snide and factual. < 1325855956 334148 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, Perl's internals are pretty well-optimised, to my knowledge. < 1325855957 297812 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://sprunge.us/fFYM analyze the "algorithm" < 1325855968 587451 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, I would but I can't read perl < 1325855969 30616 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you so desire < 1325855994 91340 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, then I doubt you can read my perl. :P < 1325856004 596684 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, why not just profile it? < 1325856016 461417 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that doesn't say anything about the complexity. < 1325856024 937007 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the profile will tell you that it "takes a while" < 1325856033 757505 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti has no idea how profiling works. < 1325856038 973492 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1325856040 720011 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, he thinks that algorithm = big-O complexity. < 1325856048 177149 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1325856056 339890 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1325856059 513956 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that algorithm is not < 1325856061 794429 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :big-O complexity < 1325856064 213429 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I say "your algorithm is the problem", you say "profiling my algorithm wouldn't tell me its ocmplexity". < 1325856065 680895 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is a seperate entity. < 1325856071 161230 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*complexity < 1325856089 539744 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, the repeated substrs look suspicious. < 1325856108 422158 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And a hash table is probably not ideal there; I believe the dictionaries you are using are sorted, and so you could use a trie. < 1325856125 488537 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, wait, is substr "is string in other string"? < 1325856127 154487 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would be much better, since you could keep a pointer. < 1325856130 949540 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No, it's slicing. < 1325856134 274764 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1325856173 981847 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl really looks ugly < 1325856214 604119 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it is due to the abundance of $ in front of words. < 1325856225 445933 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(mostly) < 1325856270 191765 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, when slicing in perl does it copy the slice or just give you a pointer to a section of the same string? < 1325856278 802399 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, is it copy on write (or immutable even) < 1325856287 461686 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure it would need to copy. < 1325856291 86442 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know. < 1325856299 226317 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because perl strings are not completely immutable. < 1325856304 506490 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but... who knows. < 1325856315 842631 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.perlmonks.org/?node_id=4688 OK, substr should be the fastest way. < 1325856319 648768 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, how large are your data sets and how much time do they take? < 1325856366 749564 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :gigabytes. hours. < 1325856382 419232 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, 1 gb? 10 gb? 100 gb? < 1325856397 971928 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, complaining about your language implementation before either (a) analysing the algorithm or (b) profiling should be punishable by firing squad. < 1325856405 901344 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless it's PHP. < 1325856417 778060 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :can i just run into a perl room and show the code and say fix this for some anonymous individual? < 1325856425 353627 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1325856428 405094 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1325856440 446252 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't think of what an inefficient trie implementation would like in Perl < 1325856445 408393 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :considering that there are 2 data structures. < 1325856452 782785 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and references. < 1325856463 944666 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, do you have a really really really slow disk? < 1325856473 894774 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really know actually. < 1325856476 114807 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I very much doubt it would be IO-bound) < 1325856491 588202 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :based on resource meters it would appear to be CPU bound as the disk usage meter never hit max < 1325856495 840429 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle many < 1325856496 157707 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Text.ParserCombinators.ReadP many :: ReadP a -> ReadP [a] < 1325856496 316130 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Applicative many :: Alternative f => f a -> f [a] < 1325856496 472848 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Text.ParserCombinators.ReadP many1 :: ReadP a -> ReadP [a] < 1325856498 736365 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle choice < 1325856498 894881 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Text.ParserCombinators.ReadP choice :: [ReadP a] -> ReadP a < 1325856499 93329 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Text.ParserCombinators.ReadPrec choice :: [ReadPrec a] -> ReadPrec a < 1325856499 249655 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Text.Parsec.Combinator choice :: Stream s m t => [ParsecT s u m a] -> ParsecT s u m a < 1325856518 749555 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :my hard drive 480 Mbps < 1325856525 110748 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :according to its description online < 1325856527 210941 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a rather old disk here, it takes 30 minutes to copy 10 GB of data from it, and that is in the form of multiple files, so some seeking would be involved. < 1325856539 552570 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so hm, very doubtful you have a worse disk than that < 1325856592 570262 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, well that number doesn't mean much if it isn't from a source independent of the manufacture. < 1325856599 469651 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :manufacturer* < 1325856601 373236 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1325856605 322048 :derdon!~derdon@pD9E1C4AA.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1325856617 227552 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle [(Int,a)] -> [a] < 1325856617 466050 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude snd :: (a, b) -> b < 1325856617 624362 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Tuple snd :: (a, b) -> b < 1325856617 780831 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :System.Random randomRs :: (Random a, RandomGen g) => (a, a) -> g -> [a] < 1325856620 164441 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: halp < 1325856637 264239 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, anyway I recommend you profile the code, it might help < 1325856644 139706 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: What're you after? < 1325856650 325027 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, and also see elliott's suggestions above < 1325856672 79991 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's not even an issue I'm concerned with now, since I already have all the data. < 1325856677 479677 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1325856684 982177 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : oerjan: halp < 1325856688 381792 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are you looking for? < 1325856699 613069 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: unsafeCoerce . return . head . reverse . map snd < 1325856705 176162 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this entire discussion was brought about by elliott complaining about my algorithms. < 1325856724 416722 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t unsafeCoerce < 1325856725 209627 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `unsafeCoerce' < 1325856726 456902 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, one advantage with C code is that it is usually easy to figure out why it is slow. < 1325856763 860535 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to the few layers of abstraction you can pretty much figure out what is going on, when stuff is copied and so on. < 1325856777 428296 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t sortBy < 1325856777 586790 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, what happens if you unsafeCoerce to Void? < 1325856778 260416 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (a -> a -> Ordering) -> [a] -> [a] < 1325856786 946774 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(of course C has a lot of disadvantages as well) < 1325856812 74768 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t Void < 1325856812 708877 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: data constructor `Void' < 1325856817 185812 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: are you looking for something like map snd . sortBy (comparing fst) < 1325856818 295346 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh, < 1325856820 553971 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric ::i Void < 1325856820 710079 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose you'd just get some garbage which called itself a Void. < 1325856823 37729 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or what < 1325856828 508045 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm guess it doesn't have that < 1325856841 792615 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: here's the file sizes since you were curious. http://sprunge.us/aOEW < 1325856842 752036 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, it's not implemented in the standard library IIRC, but you can define it. < 1325856849 976233 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, ah right < 1325856862 290114 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :newtype Void = Void Void < 1325856889 192638 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, well, since it doesn't expose anything that might inspect the values of it I would guess it doesn't do much harm= < 1325856890 24166 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-12-141.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1325856890 342029 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-12-141.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1325856890 498240 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1325856891 772229 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/=/?/ < 1325856981 813316 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: so, 49 GBs I believe < 1325856998 140294 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, and in total it took a few hours? < 1325857012 879886 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : oerjan: halp <-- what is that supposed to do? < 1325857015 614775 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I generally let it run while sleeping. :P < 1325857024 880400 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahhh.. so this is the random word generating project :D < 1325857028 379146 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes a few hours. maybe 3-4 < 1325857046 334942 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: that's part of it, yes. < 1325857052 285796 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you some crazy motherfuckers < 1325857056 451483 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, not worth dealing with that issue, it should be IO-bound though. < 1325857073 558236 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1325857095 258341 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you have >49 GB RAM and load it all into RAM before < 1325857141 49069 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I doubt < 1325857155 318081 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1325857156 429616 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i cannot help you when you're not even asking a question < 1325857165 986540 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I don't load the individual files into RAM either. < 1325857172 148943 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1325857184 920380 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, I know someone who has 32 GB RAM in her desktop though, not so far to 40 GB from there. < 1325857193 540018 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, 49* < 1325857203 792774 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (uncurry replicate =<<) < 1325857204 586368 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall b. [(Int, b)] -> [b] < 1325857214 299136 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ^ that one fits your type, at least < 1325857219 960546 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the difference between for(<$f>) and while(<$f>) is the difference between reading line by line and reading the entire file into memory. < 1325857230 364517 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, huh? < 1325857232 669360 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :....except reverse the order that I said those. < 1325857238 8198 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :while reads line by line. < 1325857247 796853 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: perl stuff < 1325857250 216671 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, really? That is stupid, it doesn't make sense that it has that effect < 1325857252 317380 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck perl < 1325857252 954812 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: sorry back < 1325857257 913342 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i wanted what monqy said yeah :P < 1325857261 597185 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: that's because you don't know why it is. < 1325857272 389931 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : newtype Void = Void Void < 1325857274 450868 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*data Void < 1325857300 215974 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, oh? < 1325857305 976888 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, why is it then < 1325857307 443453 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott, one advantage with C code is that it is usually easy to figure out why it is slow. < 1325857307 761685 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : due to the few layers of abstraction you can pretty much figure out what is going on, when stuff is copied and so on. < 1325857309 863235 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Not true. < 1325857313 600598 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :True, but that's a Haskell 2010 thing, so the old one is still relevant. < 1325857318 342426 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh? < 1325857325 318096 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, this is Vorpal, so making anything implicit is asking for trouble. < 1325857335 45227 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Cache locality, blah blah blah, all the things that matter to people who really need optimisation. < 1325857339 933404 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://perldoc.perl.org/perldata.html#Context < 1325857342 233048 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :C abstracts memory too much, basically. < 1325857346 913985 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hey, it even uses <> as the example. < 1325857352 762160 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wasn't expecting that. < 1325857354 133926 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You realise as soon as you write "import Data.List" you're invalid Haskell 98? < 1325857357 996182 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't even have hierarchical modules. < 1325857369 390758 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, the parsing rule in 98 that 2010 changed was the one that every implementation had done from the start. < 1325857387 611870 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell 2010 is one of the most minor, status-quo language revisions ever. < 1325857392 320737 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm, good point. Though I wasn't thinking about it on that level, more about "does the language represent this in some way that is slow for the purpose I'm using it" sort of thing < 1325857396 447787 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there anything /wrong/ with the newtype definition? < 1325857404 933413 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Well, no. But it's ugly. < 1325857453 953967 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, doesn't say anything about for/while there? < 1325857474 216743 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: oh well... for takes its argument as a list, while as a scalar. < 1325857479 668631 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1325857498 815942 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if and while are "boolean context" which is just a special case of scalar context. < 1325857509 476601 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, I'm having problems seeing how <$f> can type as BOTH of those though < 1325857512 847431 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the argument to for is going to be list context, obviously. < 1325857519 812461 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_> type? < 1325857525 105657 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1325857534 529900 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :does perl even have a type system? < 1325857534 847876 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1325857539 484523 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not perl 5, no. < 1325857541 861949 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1325857542 971862 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1325857544 440692 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :kind of. < 1325857547 652508 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :dynamic typing? < 1325857556 376494 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and lots of implicit casts? < 1325857565 800849 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's "lists" and "scalars" and "hashes" and "refs" and "filehandles" and.... but it's dynamically typed. < 1325857603 225398 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1325857609 871068 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :a kind of system < 1325857628 48985 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's some casting but not always. it's entirely possible to write a subroutine that does two completely different things based on its context. < 1325857638 73464 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"casting" isn't really the word. < 1325857689 432455 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1325857690 545644 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you basically have this dynamically scoped variable that every stack frame can access that tells it what its calling context wants. < 1325857700 410505 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then do something different based on this. < 1325857709 265294 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch, that is just a mess < 1325857724 823359 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :-shrug- it's pretty well-documented, at least in the standard libraries. < 1325857730 874425 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and most CPAN libraries as far as I've seen. < 1325857736 542122 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes but it is an ugly mechanism < 1325857756 95718 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and stupid too < 1325857778 533185 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's certainly convenient, if you understand how it works. < 1325857800 37769 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1325857813 167457 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, anyway would for(my $line = <$f>) even work? < 1325857817 597828 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, would it run? < 1325857819 846198 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1325857821 546315 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1325857833 92084 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, is <$f> considered a generator expression or something then? < 1325857874 934350 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm < 1325857887 149778 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's just an operator. < 1325857905 539922 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in other words I don't think evaluating <$f> as a list is going to do anything lazily. < 1325857917 973059 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but as a scalar it's like a getline function. < 1325857945 259906 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :this language is crazy < 1325857953 905257 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl for("test") { print } < 1325857956 165095 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :test < 1325857970 529934 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yeah your above code will grab the first line and store it in $line, and the iterate exactly once < 1325857976 21487 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/the/then/ < 1325857995 720948 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1325858002 61048 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that makes more sense < 1325858016 865706 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, I though you said it would read the whole file? < 1325858019 322472 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because a scalar value in list context is a 1-element list. < 1325858026 612365 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it will, if you evaluate it in list context < 1325858029 588360 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :my $line = <$f> < 1325858031 690580 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is not list context < 1325858034 466443 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1325858038 653857 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :my @line = <$f> < 1325858041 387554 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be, however. < 1325858068 766164 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1325858129 182300 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I promise it all makes surprising amounts of sense. < 1325858133 189276 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, that is a really ugly way to do typing, because that seems to be what it does. You have to tell every time you use something if it is a list or a scalar, rather than making it have a type < 1325858154 94084 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless I misunderstood how $ and @ work < 1325858189 623517 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ and @ are like... variable types. < 1325858202 460375 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? < 1325858210 518853 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there are more than 2 kinds of values, obviously. < 1325858216 190664 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean you can do $foo = ... and then later read @foo? < 1325858221 92604 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, no. < 1325858224 104143 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :are they different namespaces? < 1325858229 666856 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@foo and $foo are different variables < 1325858230 21795 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you meant: do faq ft todo yow < 1325858234 758917 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1325858278 434983 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the context arises from the assignment operator, which bases its context on what kind of variable you're assigning to. < 1325858296 649426 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@list = ... is list context, $list[0] = ... is scalar < 1325858296 808353 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :No module "= ... is list context, $list[0] = ... is scalar" loaded < 1325858336 861390 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, and scalar can be anything? integer, floating point, struct, and so on? What about strings? < 1325858337 179438 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the sigil tells you the context of the assignment operator, basically. except when you're assigning to a list of variables, then it's always list context. < 1325858344 630492 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes strings are scalar. < 1325858350 180494 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, and structs? < 1325858357 238764 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, references. < 1325858367 351524 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :which can reference hash tables and lists. that's the equivalent of "structs" in Perl. < 1325858378 555271 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1325858410 47061 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, so can you store lists in lists? < 1325858427 126908 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you can store references to lists in lists. < 1325858430 417951 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lists can only contain scalars. < 1325858430 893159 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1325858437 759459 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise all sanity would be lost... < 1325858447 710868 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : you mean you can do $foo = ... and then later read @foo? < 1325858448 664335 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : @foo and $foo are different variables < 1325858453 985198 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can do @foo = ... and read $foo, though. < 1325858460 202032 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what does that do? < 1325858469 35748 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought he said they were different namespaces? < 1325858470 145910 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's maximum index or something. I forget. < 1325858474 651365 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so $foo and @foo could coexist? < 1325858475 800858 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh you're thinking of $#foo < 1325858481 435507 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1325858486 74532 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, can $foo and @foo coexist? < 1325858486 983153 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought $foo was scalar @foo if @foo existed. < 1325858493 151900 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't believe so. < 1325858506 205089 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, so they aren't really different variables then as you claimed < 1325858520 69766 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl use v5.10; my $x = 2; my @x = (1,2); say @x; say $x; < 1325858520 585449 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :12 \ 2 < 1325858522 810918 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no they are. < 1325858537 453949 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, so they can coexist then? < 1325858540 73878 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep. < 1325858540 230056 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1325858595 918779 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, so $x is not actually a scalar variable named x, but a variable named $x? < 1325858613 370647 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a variable named $x that holds a scalar value < 1325858617 414638 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1325858624 558842 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the sigil does enforce a constraint on its value. < 1325858626 463161 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 should really step in here, since IIRC kallisti has been wrong about Perl variables at least once. < 1325858636 310086 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I am not wrong here. < 1325858644 959729 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(so reassuring) < 1325858655 526863 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I just showed that I'm not wrong. < 1325858658 139552 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :via Perl code. < 1325858672 139354 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION was not arguing. < 1325858674 21823 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :de facto standard, here. come on. < 1325858698 195791 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh you're saying I might mess up maybe or something. < 1325858700 45399 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :MORE PREEMPTION < 1325858742 166067 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: the variable *foo contains a symbol table entry with all of the different kinds of foos. that's always fun. < 1325858748 990293 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not commonly used in perl 5 though, now that there's references. < 1325858775 444757 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1325858815 429264 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*foo was basically how you did referency back before references existed. < 1325858914 2599 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl use v5.10; my $x = 2; my @x = (1,2); say *x{ARRAY}; say *x{SCALAR}; #awww yeah ugly mostly-obsolete shit < 1325858914 716052 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​\ SCALAR(0x7f562d13cb98) < 1325858923 317591 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hmmm < 1325858948 993726 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, that wouldn't work like a pointer anyway? < 1325858997 731016 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*foo is like a table of references < 1325858997 887370 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Russian composer, singer and recently a record producer. Also an actor in one movie. < 1325858998 43753 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :In my free time (when I have no tour or concert-like events) I usually read some technical literature about modern programming languages and trying to write some useless tools. It's just a hobby, nothing more." < 1325859001 62479 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :references work like pointers. < 1325859002 685817 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it was a joke but it seems to... not be. < 1325859011 210036 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: cool < 1325859024 984675 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dmitry_Malikov < 1325859025 498497 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/dmalikov < 1325859035 137178 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: references is one of the nice things about perl compared to ruby and perl, I'd say. < 1325859038 701056 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: heh, nice. < 1325859039 334866 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION can't figure out whether the guy is just dedicated to the fake identity or not. < 1325859055 277639 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"USELESS PATHETIC WRONG" < 1325859057 220986 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"USELESS PATHETIC WRONG" is a really good project description. < 1325859057 696299 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1325859058 647889 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, well, I don't like python and I never used ruby < 1325859060 592619 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so *shrug* < 1325859078 895012 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Yeah, Perl is nicer than Ruby and Perl. < 1325859083 573635 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, perl looks worse than python though. At least python code doesn't look inherently ugly < 1325859091 155882 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: is that... oh that wasn't sarcasm was it. < 1325859095 689443 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, perl is nicer than perl? < 1325859102 549010 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, typo or intentional? < 1325859109 460060 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1325859110 453681 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1325859121 62599 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION should proofread more < 1325859123 80887 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/perl/python/ < 1325859136 181187 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"references is one of the nice things about python compared to ruby and perl, I'd say" < 1325859140 860311 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, oh right you did that typo too, I read it as python though < 1325859141 17543 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Way to go, you broke it some more < 1325859141 335320 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1325859164 722179 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION desperately tries to find evidence that this guy is actually that guy. < 1325859171 818582 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ask him < 1325859174 514571 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :best evidence < 1325859188 228365 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: That would be so awkward. < 1325859201 569501 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"hi are you really the guy" "yes" "cool!" < 1325859202 203751 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :* elliott can't figure out whether the guy is just dedicated to the fake identity or not. <-- is the guy claiming to be the same one? < 1325859210 755357 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean there could be another person with the same name < 1325859226 691200 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :also why is github not loading for me today < 1325859237 249065 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION should actually try to power through some Project Euler sometime. < 1325859246 22881 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://stackoverflow.com/users/570689/ < 1325859256 522129 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I can't check if he is claiming to be the same guy since the god damn website isn't loading < 1325859283 559356 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, that is possible, who knows < 1325859316 260766 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: honestly I find Python code semantically uglier because of how simplistic the language actually is. Lack of symbols doesn't really imply pretty code to me anymore. < 1325859324 842190 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well he is russian < 1325859339 199499 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, so you don't like Lisp? < 1325859340 151081 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"WTF?! This is such a joke, I hope:) Dvitry Malikov - a programmer." < 1325859340 626845 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: this is probably because I've been programming way too much perl. < 1325859350 293644 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I like lisp, but I do find it hard to read. < 1325859352 880035 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Translating of "WTF?! Это такой прикол, я надеюсь :) Двитрий Маликов - программист.", a Tweet followed by a link to the profile.) < 1325859355 932650 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Translation < 1325859363 658543 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, I'm satisfied, it's not him :P < 1325859368 460860 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably some other guy with the same name. < 1325859370 879540 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Making a joke. < 1325859378 761301 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it really should be him. < 1325859389 709267 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I'm sure if I spent as much time learning lisp idioms as I have Perl idioms I would find it easy to read as well. < 1325859395 163048 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want to hear dmitry now < 1325859407 829945 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to youtube < 1325859416 645489 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, personally I prefer a language with some amount of syntax that is between lisp and perl < 1325859427 611974 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, Haskell? :> < 1325859433 737811 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes that is a nice one < 1325859452 468374 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, syntax amount between lisp and perl covers quite a few languages though < 1325859459 181111 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes quite a "few" < 1325859470 818709 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, probably even "most" < 1325859481 10338 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes they're pretty much on opposite ends there. < 1325859486 316 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1325859511 194519 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perl 6 trumphs Perl 5 in syntax though. < 1325859516 577358 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly < 1325859518 519982 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in terms of "amount" < 1325859522 976881 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever that means. < 1325859524 17624 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1325859537 394780 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess grammar rules. < 1325859539 495261 :MSleep!~fyrc@or-67-238-19-212.dhcp.embarqhsd.net NICK :MDude < 1325859542 411273 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, well, it isn't a well defined concept, I can't give you a number < 1325859551 753848 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but arguably you understood what I meant < 1325859555 557906 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1325859567 581566 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl 6 actually has useful syntax though < 1325859573 776361 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so does perl 5? < 1325859575 877556 :yorick!~yorick@unaffiliated/yorick QUIT :Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds. < 1325859600 725898 :yorick!~yorick@unaffiliated/yorick JOIN :#esoteric < 1325859604 824262 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, also is there a system to it? Or does it feel like someone just piled more and more features on the original language resulting in a mess? < 1325859619 675482 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a system to it and it's also pretty messy. < 1325859674 916972 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's much more consistent. < 1325859678 330670 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a difference between java and older C# versions (can't say much about the LINQ stuff and so on, never used that): C# feels like a streamlined and more consistent version of java to me. < 1325859689 239565 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tiylH4HIb2A this is dmitry singing < 1325859702 676154 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well that is good < 1325859723 259849 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Perl 6 spec gives me a headache... < 1325859725 994259 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the crowd resembles grass swaying in the wind < 1325859733 603302 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, oh? < 1325859733 761191 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is kind of unusual < 1325859758 234102 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, yes usually crowds resemble crowds < 1325859846 658274 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm I just noticed the moon is highly visible and unusually sharp given that it is daytime, usually when it is visible during day it tends to be faint or such, not so today. < 1325859859 6964 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Perl 6 introduces a binary 'default' operator -- // -- that solves this problem. The default operator evaluates to its left operand if that operand is defined, otherwise it evaluates to its right operand." < 1325859863 367473 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh.... this is new? < 1325859872 17975 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess maybe Perl 5 borrowed it from Perl 6 or something. < 1325859874 81077 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not unlikely. < 1325859880 418808 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It did. < 1325859894 863253 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :A large number of Perl 5 features are. < 1325859960 424088 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :when was perl 5 released, as in 5.0 < 1325860005 846259 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, there? < 1325860031 293381 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: can you explain why $@ iterates over a filehandle < 1325860034 505471 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess not < 1325860035 694753 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in $@f < 1325860046 227208 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er @!f < 1325860050 887367 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1325860053 981561 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@$f < 1325860054 140888 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Done. < 1325860058 463906 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. done. < 1325860061 409385 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what did it do? < 1325860066 69396 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea. < 1325860080 518994 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@help $f < 1325860080 709724 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :help . Ask for help for . Try 'list' for all commands < 1325860100 214006 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :@$a < 1325860100 372617 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you meant: . ? @ bf do faq ft id map pl rc v wn < 1325860105 831127 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :@$f < 1325860105 989844 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Done. < 1325860107 418741 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1325860120 646195 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh it tries to match around typos right? < 1325860127 767778 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :@helpp < 1325860127 927412 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :help . Ask for help for . Try 'list' for all commands < 1325860130 550657 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1325860137 139267 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it could be anything < 1325860171 424360 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, it could be anything, you could have launched a nuclear missile < 1325860180 295736 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1325860265 423475 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...this spec is filled with some many [Update: ...] annotations that contradict what was previously said, that I should probably just read the Update annotations first as I scan along. < 1325860273 675330 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1325860354 867224 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@bf < 1325860355 67285 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Done. < 1325860358 280679 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :thought so. < 1325860370 602648 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@13ijwd < 1325860370 763476 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknown command, try @list < 1325860372 664504 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, phew, the Earth is afe < 1325860373 658608 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ijwd < 1325860373 975947 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :safe* < 1325860377 73148 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@sld < 1325860377 232065 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you meant: bid id pl slap src < 1325860382 32718 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah nice. < 1325860384 96003 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no < 1325860387 428835 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't < 1325860388 62866 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION should implement this in his bot. < 1325860397 724843 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :does your questions still stand? < 1325860401 530574 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well now you are: I have a java question. < 1325860401 848039 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: the error message when you change one letter too much, (i.e. the @$a) gives a hint what @$f may be interpreted as < 1325860402 641605 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes < 1325860462 460603 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: @$a is, in C notation, *(array*)scalar_a < 1325860501 677515 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, assume a tcp connection, I get something like a fixed size struct over a connection, containing integers and floats, how would I parse that in java? I would like to get it into a class with the relevant fields. < 1325860520 476851 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I could parse it by hand? But how would you convert a binary blob to a float in java? < 1325860528 49357 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: can you explain why $@ iterates over a filehandle < 1325860528 564524 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in what < 1325860531 52278 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(assuming I calculated where it is) < 1325860538 908253 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I'd guess there's some sort of relevant input stream variant < 1325860540 675925 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: perl 6 < 1325860542 341747 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :try checking the API < 1325860545 311306 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, a socket atm < 1325860548 249969 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it's @$ actually < 1325860561 784333 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: there's probably a wrapper that you can wrap around arbitrary input streams < 1325860564 115920 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: well @foo must be a list and a filehandle is presumably a scalar < 1325860567 489072 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :with operations like readInt and readFloat < 1325860572 199628 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the sigils mean differnt things in 6 < 1325860581 321248 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 , Skype: patashu0 . < 1325860582 471170 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I'm just not sure how to do what is basically *((float*)&foo) in java < 1325860589 330802 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ais523 has answered your question < 1325860591 688808 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1325860595 418608 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: @$fh looks to me like a dereference. but I'm guessing it's not. < 1325860605 344424 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I'm lagging a bit here < 1325860627 678514 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, he answered it just two seconds before I wrote that last line < 1325860641 21669 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do have 8 seconds lag though accoding to my irc client < 1325860648 961876 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :having a bit of problem with my connection today < 1325860843 350881 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1325860982 275816 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: DataInputStream may be what you're looking for; although it uses its own serialisation rules, not necessarily native byte order < 1325860997 533095 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1325861010 996333 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and for outputting I assume there is DataOutputStream? < 1325861018 139445 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess so, although I haven't checked < 1325861027 498861 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, thanks :) < 1325861040 438843 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: < 1325861040 756692 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :longBitsToDouble < 1325861040 914913 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :public static double longBitsToDouble(long bits) < 1325861041 71202 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Returns the double value corresponding to a given bit representation. The argument is considered to be a representation of a floating-point value according to the IEEE 754 floating-point "double format" bit layout. < 1325861041 71399 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the argument is 0x7ff0000000000000L, the result is positive infinity. < 1325861042 761352 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the argument is 0xfff0000000000000L, the result is negative infinity. < 1325861044 864242 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the argument is any value in the range 0x7ff0000000000001L through 0x7fffffffffffffffL or in the range 0xfff0000000000001L through 0xffffffffffffffffL, the result is a NaN. No IEEE 754 floating-point operation provided by Java can distinguish between two NaN values of the same type with different bit patterns. Distinct values of NaN are only distinguishable by use of the Double.doubleToRawLongBits method. < 1325861048 832131 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's also ObjectInputStream that also serialises and deserialises primitives, but it uses the same rules < 1325861064 146422 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, need float not double < 1325861065 97191 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but sure < 1325861078 886422 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I was just about to mention that; DataStream says that it uses the same rules as longBitsToFloat/bitsToDouble < 1325861087 767361 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for representation < 1325861103 696556 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://docs.oracle.com/javase/1.4.2/docs/api/java/lang/Float.html#intBitsToFloat(int) < 1325861106 669339 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol, 1.4.2 < 1325861110 159489 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Oh. < 1325861114 7055 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Then it's IEEE. < 1325861118 260593 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you don't need that. < 1325861120 483280 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1325861131 202867 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION knows that Java just casts instead of actually converting. < 1325861136 118402 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course a float or a double is IEEE < 1325861138 258862 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: apparently, the representation it uses for characters is "modified UTF-8", which sounds a little scary < 1325861140 322864 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even mcmap has manual IEEE encoding/decoding code. < 1325861149 411988 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why? < 1325861153 304767 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Write once, run anywhere my ass. < 1325861158 968017 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could just... cast < 1325861162 537207 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Um, for non-IEEE platforms? < 1325861165 938885 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1325861168 202886 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It uses the casting method on IEEE platforms. < 1325861174 29621 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have to explicitly opt for the portable method. < 1325861177 164113 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think anybody has. < 1325861184 483218 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone wrote code for a non-IEEE platform? < 1325861189 870266 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, fizzie. < 1325861191 498566 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I told him to. < 1325861192 134544 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :why < 1325861194 591608 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's in config.h. < 1325861199 80212 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The setting, that is.) < 1325861203 653618 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Because non-IEEE platforms! < 1325861205 399652 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it isn't as if I can think of any non-IEEE platform at all < 1325861216 717421 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mcmap is portable, dude. Portable. < 1325861219 952859 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean x86 has long double sure, but double and float are IEEE < 1325861224 141958 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm dead sure there is a platform which can do SDL and glib that doesn't have IEEE floats. < 1325861231 97851 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, which one? < 1325861258 374693 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1325861303 420917 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well, it might not be implemented. < 1325861310 115055 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I can CONCEIVE of such a platform. < 1325861332 902681 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its called itidus's platform of DOOM < 1325861347 724951 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, right < 1325861422 994360 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, all modern architectures I know of either have IEEE hardware floats or no hardware floats. < 1325861434 617823 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and software floats tend to be IEEE ones < 1325861438 943588 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1325861443 320211 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :name: itidus's platform of DOOM definition: any platform which opts in for the name, and has precisely SDL and glib and no IEEE floats < 1325861467 53514 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, :D < 1325861468 5809 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The UNIVAC 1100/2200 series, introduced in 1962, supported two floating-point formats. Single precision used 36 bits, organized into a 1-bit sign, an 8-bit exponent, and a 27-bit significand. Double precision used 72 bits organized as a 1-bit sign, an 11-bit exponent, and a 60-bit significand. The IBM 7094, introduced the same year, also supported single and double precision, with slightly different formats. < 1325861480 447566 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, does it support SDL and glib? < 1325861482 75036 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: See, you might want to mcmap on a UNIVAC. < 1325861486 555126 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well, I'm sure it _could_. < 1325861493 933309 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :We're not tied to any particular SDL or glib implementation, just the API. < 1325861501 272831 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I'm sure it would be terribly slow < 1325861515 431525 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The IEEE has standardized the computer representation for binary floating-point numbers in IEEE 754. This standard is followed by almost all modern machines. Notable exceptions include IBM mainframes, which support IBM's own format (in addition to the IEEE 754 binary and decimal formats), and Cray vector machines, where the T90 series had an IEEE version, but the SV1 still uses Cray floating-point format. < 1325861519 438570 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :IBM. < 1325861522 561787 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gotta support IBM. < 1325861523 196170 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1325861530 24691 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, "in addition to" < 1325861530 501844 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first clause is to ensure that geeks on wikipedia can't go hunting for implementations of itidus's platform of DOOM since it is opt-in < 1325861533 990504 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: OK, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cray_SV1 < 1325861536 492182 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: 1998. < 1325861538 608837 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1325861545 313888 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure it can run mcmap. < 1325861547 733169 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Networking, maybe not. < 1325861554 104111 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also it probably can't run Unix. < 1325861561 102957 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you might need to port SDL and glib. < 1325861584 814660 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The SV1 was backwards compatible with J90 and Y-MP software, and ran the same UNIX-derived UNICOS operating system" < 1325861593 89083 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, unix-derived < 1325861594 834695 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so hm < 1325861610 294470 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: They probably have a really shitty libc; also we need C99. < 1325861617 436364 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But MAYBE. < 1325861619 975822 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you use C99 for? < 1325861628 54763 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you use C89 for? < 1325861642 81971 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I meant, why do you need C99 rather than just C89 < 1325861656 532846 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do you need C89 rather than just K&R? < 1325861673 211358 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for S&G < 1325861688 237962 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, because specific features in the program that uses newer features, and I'm trying to find out which ones those are in this case < 1325861706 782290 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What? < 1325861731 617650 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^shits and giggles < 1325861745 545244 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, because specific parts of the code of the program uses features not found in K&R, that is why you need C89. And the interesting part is what those features are. < 1325861762 307528 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the case of mcmap that is < 1325861769 964930 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, and yes this is rather funny < 1325861819 620814 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: thinking about things, wouldn't a Java library impl be non-conforming if it didn't translate floats IEEE-style? < 1325861835 25252 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[elliott@dinky mcmap]$ make CFLAGS="-std=c89 -ggdb3 -O3 -Wall -Werror -Winit-self -DPLATFORM_POSIX -pthread -D_GNU_SOURCE=1 -D_REENTRANT -isystem /usr/include/glib-2.0 -isystem /usr/lib/glib-2.0/include -isystem /usr/include/SDL" < 1325861835 183697 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mkdir build < 1325861835 342801 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CC posix.c < 1325861835 499195 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :In file included from posix.c:14:0: < 1325861835 659756 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :types.h:67:1: error: expected identifier or ‘(’ before ‘/’ token < 1325861837 608455 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[failed command: cc -MMD -std=c89 -ggdb3 -O3 -Wall -Werror -Winit-self -DPLATFORM_POSIX -pthread -D_GNU_SOURCE=1 -D_REENTRANT -isystem /usr/include/glib-2.0 -isystem /usr/lib/glib-2.0/include -isystem /usr/include/SDL -c -o build/posix.o posix.c] < 1325861841 591969 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :make: *** [build/posix.o] Error 1 < 1325861843 534972 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: indeed < 1325861851 599635 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, fuck gcc errors :D < 1325861858 320482 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: // FIXME: Should we transform alpha too? < 1325861859 352191 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the line. < 1325861862 210839 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :aaah < 1325861871 454098 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so line comments then < 1325861873 397813 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also a ton of declarations in for loops. < 1325861874 71077 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a reasonably good error message < 1325861881 388305 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And reasonable shit like that, rather than bunching them all at the start of a function. < 1325861884 239847 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tells you exactly what character was out of place < 1325861891 919005 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think we also use { .foo = ... }. < 1325861894 815561 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, we do. < 1325861896 602250 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite a lot, even. < 1325861901 122813 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :((struct foo){ ... }) mainly. < 1325861902 549908 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, indeed < 1325861921 902439 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, sensible reasons :) < 1325861948 76300 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, we did use nested functions, but don't any more. < 1325861962 730564 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those aren't standard at all. < 1325861969 224287 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1325861972 42473 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are just gcc < 1325862326 181808 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Later < 1325862333 483329 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, any idea what swing component might be good for drawing a bitmap quite a lot, as in for a game or such (or maybe I should use some SDL bindings for java?) < 1325862356 962421 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: oh, haha, be careful not to hit an infamous bug/design error in Java's stdlib < 1325862362 787616 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh? < 1325862366 159431 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me check what I did in jettyplay < 1325862442 138387 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I just need to blit a bitmap to a jframe basically :) < 1325862443 925669 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Why are you using Java, why are you drawing a bitmap with Java < 1325862450 305094 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, because of university < 1325862456 439198 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I would not use java if I could avoid it < 1325862478 899666 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't you use vector stuff rather than blitting a bitmap or w/e < 1325862487 594470 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and the answer is, I avoided the image stuff like the plague < 1325862501 209782 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: basically, the standard way to do that sort of thing involves BufferedImage < 1325862513 260678 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but repeatedly redrawing images with that gives a memory leak < 1325862518 54442 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well I have it as a bitmap, as in, that is how the world is represented. Think a worms style game. < 1325862522 339924 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you guys remember AOP? < 1325862524 654345 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(very much simpler than worms though) < 1325862525 924022 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sure don't.. < 1325862536 209111 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You're writing an AI that operates directly on a screen-scraping? < 1325862536 368042 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the reason is, that BufferedImage is lazy, and also doesn't optimise for the cases where the image below has already loaded or the current image has no alpha < 1325862552 414212 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Or what? < 1325862563 243506 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no? I'm writing the client for this multiplayer game. < 1325862578 396296 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Why is your output image your in-game representation < 1325862582 599156 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably there's a rendering step < 1325862586 571855 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :From data structures -> image < 1325862602 815748 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd be easier to use whatever drawing API Swing has directly. < 1325862631 344215 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you realise how worms work right? the non-3D versions < 1325862638 54979 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, which is that your terrain /is/ an image < 1325862646 518872 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :destructible too < 1325862657 387502 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I know how Worms works, thank you very much; I daresay I've played it more than you have. < 1325862663 127654 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, probably < 1325862681 867015 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't represent it as an image I mutate to destruct parts of it, but whatever. < 1325862699 552366 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and thus I need to draw the terrain, plus some players, plus some health bars and so on < 1325862709 250425 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yes there is a bit of rendering < 1325862726 903036 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: anyway: http://bugs.sun.com/bugdatabase/view_bug.do?bug_id=4014323 < 1325862739 25710 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :comments say that the bug was only partially fixed even though Sun claimed to deliver a fix < 1325862742 762988 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm so what to do instead? < 1325862744 350229 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: is there any reason I'd want to use an Array instead of a Sequence in representing a chess board in Haskell? I was thinking reads will be predominate, the constant time access could be worth the cost of slower updates, unless I decide to write an AI which uses decision trees. < 1325862757 103270 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hmm, I probably would represent Worms terrain as a bitmap < 1325862761 958391 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I'm not sure if it would directly be an image < 1325862767 415108 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably just a collidable/noncollidable mask < 1325862796 301023 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, indeed, that is basically 1-bit alpha though < 1325862809 355554 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it's a mask < 1325862814 588966 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: You should rarely use Sequence. You should never use Array. < 1325862823 994753 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :most likely rendering would be to draw pixels from one image if it's clear and a different one if it's set < 1325862826 137017 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... Map? < 1325862833 315057 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: The choice should be between Vector or a Map-alike. < 1325862850 827076 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would use a storable vector, but a HashMap would work too. < 1325862851 23216 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, indeed, which is kind of the same effect alpha has, just that alpha is stored interleaved with the image < 1325862867 144316 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: chess programs normally work efficiently by mutating their chessboard view in-memory stack-style, but that algo is clearly a bad one to use with Haskell < 1325862871 796565 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're writing a chess AI in Haskell? I was just thinking about doing that last night, but then I figured I'd probably just be disappointed by the performance. < 1325862872 472248 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect there are other efficient algos < 1325862872 947026 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway what should I do to avoid said bug? < 1325862877 320193 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I considered Map but I was under the impression the Sequence had similar complexity characteristics to Map. < 1325862884 957835 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: there's some advice in the thread, but I haven't personally tried it < 1325862886 266849 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :for linear sequences of things. < 1325862904 378957 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Why are you telling me this? < 1325862912 355708 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Do it anyway, kallisti will inevitably produce something terrible. I mean, uh. < 1325862923 999765 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Performance in which sense?) < 1325862928 567831 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : oh, and the answer is, I avoided the image stuff like the plague <-- doing what instead? < 1325862929 520218 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd rather go improve stockfish or something < 1325862930 549255 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well no I don't intend to write an AI just yet < 1325862932 494066 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I thought it was vaguely relevant < 1325862936 153500 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just going to write the server program first. < 1325862944 244849 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: rendering the entire thing with graphical primitives and text-drawing primitives < 1325862946 943202 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Who the fuck works on other people's code? < 1325862947 260811 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a chess variant. < 1325862949 842093 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah... < 1325862953 651867 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that works quite well for a terminal < 1325862962 497188 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I guess there are SDL bindings for java... < 1325862962 653292 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably not so well for other programs < 1325862968 886065 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.google.co.uk/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=sdl+java < 1325862979 276377 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Vector has a lot of modules... which ones besides Data.Vector are worth looking at. < 1325862991 330483 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: http://hackage.haskell.org/package/vector < 1325862997 114442 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :An efficient implementation of Int-indexed arrays (both mutable and immutable), with a powerful loop optimisation framework . < 1325862997 273247 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is structured as follows: < 1325862997 429486 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Vector < 1325862997 429677 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Boxed vectors of arbitrary types. < 1325862997 429785 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Vector.Unboxed < 1325862998 702663 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unboxed vectors with an adaptive representation based on data type families. < 1325863000 663777 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Vector.Storable < 1325863002 727903 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unboxed vectors of Storable types. < 1325863004 680028 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Vector.Primitive < 1325863006 621005 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unboxed vectors of primitive types as defined by the primitive package. Data.Vector.Unboxed is more flexible at no performance cost. < 1325863009 635861 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Well, even if I write my own, it'd have to be in C or some such, because of course the goal is to be the world's best :-P < 1325863009 794250 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Vector.Generic < 1325863009 953324 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ....... < 1325863011 739437 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Generic interface to the vector types. < 1325863013 800893 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Each module has a Safe version with is marked as Trustworthy (see http://hackage.haskell.org/trac/ghc/wiki/SafeHaskell). < 1325863014 354817 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so, there is nothing mentioned there since 2004, I guess that might mean the bug is fixed? < 1325863016 773146 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :This snarky copy-paste brought to you by the power of reading. < 1325863020 987064 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I'm using JDK 7 so < 1325863024 554447 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it isn't < 1325863030 352165 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Just a tad hubristic < 1325863036 308916 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, strange the bug has no activity then < 1325863037 298796 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I was just on that page. weird, huh? < 1325863040 156389 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what happened is that Sun locked the thread, because it'd been fixed for a couple of years according to their records < 1325863045 997533 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1325863047 624445 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: You evidently didn't read it, because it told you exactly what the relevant modules were for. < 1325863048 782804 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though it was only a partial fix < 1325863050 52423 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1325863053 305626 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I previously even gave you a recommendation of which kind to use. < 1325863053 464542 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently, it was even worse a while ago < 1325863055 726871 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that is a jerk move < 1325863065 555697 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no, that's an automated bug database maintenance move < 1325863068 808207 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1325863070 316855 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it doesn't say anything about the Fusion stuff. < 1325863085 412471 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh well, I guess I might just use SDL or such < 1325863098 772545 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Maybe it omits some of the exposed modules because they're not relevant to you, in an attempt to try and answer the question you just asked me. < 1325863099 248839 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm just too competitive, I'd be annoyed/lose interest if it ends up being too poor < 1325863102 285422 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It does.) < 1325863130 702732 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I think you'd do rather badly in a field as competitive and high-stakes as chess AI then, unless you're prodigal or an expert :P < 1325863160 472810 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you are more trusting than I.. :P < 1325863182 817893 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vector looks good though. < 1325863191 867420 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think this is what I want. < 1325863208 160784 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Exactly, which is why I figured I'd rather drop it < 1325863220 143802 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, doesn't jframe have some surface I could draw directly to hm? < 1325863226 780826 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't feel like making a poor AI and I know I probably won't be able to make a good AI < 1325863233 266497 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :somehow stuff must be able to draw to it, I mean the existing components < 1325863239 286289 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately it doesn't appear to have an Ix-like thing < 1325863241 866617 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you don't draw directly to jframe ever, you draw to a panel you put inside the frame < 1325863249 246867 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I can't use tuples to index a 2D Vector :( ah well < 1325863258 666034 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least without spending a /lot/ of time on it, and I don't think I have enough interest :-P < 1325863259 164768 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, okay so does the panel have a surface I can draw a bitmap to directly? < 1325863261 535620 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can easily get a Graphics for a JPanel, for the purpose of drawing on < 1325863273 12423 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1325863278 92106 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :then I could just blit to it I presume < 1325863280 87096 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: the problem's that you have to go through Graphics' methods; or in practice, Graphics2D's methods < 1325863289 186372 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, can't draw a bitmap? < 1325863292 876314 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the Graphics you get is declared as a Graphics, but is always actually a Graphics2D; I consider this an API mistake) < 1325863293 988022 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1325863309 332283 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, as opposed to Graphics1D? < 1325863319 518778 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : unfortunately it doesn't appear to have an Ix-like thing < 1325863330 855704 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Just define your own indexing/update functions, takes about 3 seconds. < 1325863336 134784 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: nah, Graphics2D is just a particular specialisation of Graphics < 1325863337 563237 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ix is way overcomplicated. < 1325863339 30876 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that's the idea. < 1325863343 397023 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's one reason Vector is nicer :P < 1325863348 39220 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Alternatively, use repa < 1325863352 729915 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Which is based on vector < 1325863363 953141 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm there is drawImage, or does that one have the issue mentioned? < 1325863367 606028 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd tout the automatic parallelism, but that's sort of irrelevant when you have 64 cells. < 1325863372 813919 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed. < 1325863377 195260 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: there is drawImage, and it does have the issue mentioned < 1325863380 639771 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: UNLESS I END UP WITH AI < 1325863381 315029 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1325863386 546866 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also it can only store predefined types, more or less. < 1325863390 906136 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can write instances but it's a pain. < 1325863394 743716 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well that creates some issues < 1325863401 861853 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn < 1325863404 161196 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, hmm < 1325863407 893061 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, it is < 1325863415 310128 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can get around it by only using the one BufferedImage, and mutating it < 1325863442 904077 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and BufferedImage has a method that gets you a WritableRaster, which is probably what you want < 1325863451 45486 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah okay < 1325863457 634368 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :simple enough then < 1325863491 102791 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :a bit annoying, but simple enough < 1325863519 618917 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@m < 1325863519 780066 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you meant: map messages messages? more msg . ? @ v < 1325863536 140329 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ms < 1325863536 298879 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not enough privileges < 1325863543 251672 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@mssa < 1325863543 450689 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not enough privileges < 1325863544 718769 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@mssag < 1325863545 353136 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not enough privileges < 1325863560 67299 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@massage < 1325863560 701246 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't have any new messages. < 1325863562 482991 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@massages < 1325863562 801462 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't have any new messages. < 1325863613 802333 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: basically, the problem is that drawImage is lazy, and there is no strict version < 1325863624 320287 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a lazy drawImage is necessarily going to leak memory in the general case < 1325863639 247947 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, I vaguely fear it leaks memory even if you keep redrawing the same image, just less so < 1325863660 304935 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I tried overwriting the entire image with a solid colour before redrawing it; that seemed to help, but not perfectly < 1325863754 539537 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :video was really invented for games < 1325863767 539489 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so what is the proper solution to this? < 1325863780 83787 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, not using swing? < 1325863780 757760 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: i < 1325863797 78069 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you can get around it by only using the one BufferedImage, and mutating it and BufferedImage has a method that gets you a WritableRaster, which is probably what you want < 1325863808 850587 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, " actually, I vaguely fear it leaks memory even if you keep redrawing the same image, just less so" < 1325863817 151559 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it was in reply to that line < 1325863823 915176 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know that ralph baer doesn't like the term video games < 1325863844 213878 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: both Swing and AWT have the same problem, as they both use Graphics/Graphics2D < 1325863850 50185 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1325863858 549270 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's possible there's some less popular rendering toolkit that doesn't < 1325863878 646210 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, one of the problems with Java atm is that people consider both Swing and AWT obsolete, but disagree on what's replaced them, if anything < 1325863882 266584 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know that video isn't invented in the formal sense, and that it's just light medium, the eyes, the brain, conciousness, qualia "happening" < 1325863882 902480 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well I guess I could find some suitable SDL bindings and use that, it obviously wouldn't have the same issue < 1325863931 651985 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: SWT might have something. < 1325863939 696890 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's at least popular. < 1325863953 642323 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the downside: I don't know the API of that. At all. < 1325863970 736242 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Qt Jambi? :p < 1325863977 519296 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, or is there built in opengl support? Then it should be fairly simple to just draw a texture and render it with a non-perspective camera < 1325863989 206519 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would be surprised if your university would be happy with having to install an SDL binding thing. < 1325863989 523673 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I have no clue what you mean < 1325864001 898807 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: That's because you're unable to use Google. < 1325864002 767317 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I used SDL for another course (from C then) < 1325864009 515860 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, it may be that video represents the intentional act of manipulating visible objects to represent images, at a high enough frequency that those images appear to consist of a sequence of frames < 1325864024 781552 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Java has a 3D library, but I'm not sure if it has anything to do with OpenGL or not < 1325864028 643557 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, in that case it was just a case of dropping SDL.dll into the build dir < 1325864030 910593 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You can't just bundle JNI stuff in a .jar, can you? < 1325864041 465547 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it is this definition that i think is truely invented for games < 1325864044 366920 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: and even if you could, someone marking the work would be insane to run it < 1325864045 636124 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, can't you? What does minecraft do then? < 1325864053 828106 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523, or is there built in opengl support? Then it should be fairly simple to just draw a texture and render it with a non-perspective camera < 1325864055 119335 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lwjgl < 1325864062 118271 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"lwjgl"? < 1325864065 842824 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_OpenGL, I suppose. That's a JSR. < 1325864066 711300 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, which uses JNI, right? < 1325864071 192962 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: lwjgl < 1325864073 254348 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well, eys. < 1325864073 889206 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1325864074 682757 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lets wiki java gl < 1325864077 999377 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Minecraft downloads natives. < 1325864083 540094 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you ever paid attention to the updater? < 1325864091 1289 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, indeed, I could just bundle SDL.dll surely? < 1325864095 127658 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever < 1325864095 445171 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's also the reason you need -Djava.natives=... or w/e. < 1325864099 622805 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1325864102 885515 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't start Java normally and use it. < 1325864113 685228 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so a .bat file as well then < 1325864154 373651 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway, I guess I'll just do the mutate-bufferedimage thingy and hope for the best < 1325864158 240333 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: anyway, a quick search of StackOverflow, on a bunch of different search terms, implies that some people there are enough aware of the problem to know about it < 1325864168 367834 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but nobody there really knows enough about it to talk coherently about it < 1325864172 751357 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, I just use Google to search SO < 1325864202 384481 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i have tried to ponder the real question of worms terrain < 1325864232 815816 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, Java really badly needs a "copy this raster to the screen" operation < 1325864252 323101 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1325864254 758720 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even a strict "draw this image" operation, if you know the image is in memory or somewhere similar where that's not going to hang for minutes waiting for a network connection to load < 1325864272 423501 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, btw when you say it is lazy what do you actually mean? That it keeps old image data below the overwritten data? < 1325864275 338072 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has no idea what sense of "lazy" ais523 is using. < 1325864303 679967 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, because obviously it is going to draw once the screen refreshes and so on < 1325864304 828679 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1325864330 936803 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would force an evaluation if it was the haskell sense of lazy < 1325864346 92053 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, it's more like "backgrounded" < 1325864351 55648 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you call drawImage, it returns immediately < 1325864355 504264 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1325864363 656240 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then the image starts loading in a different thread, and calls an ImageObserver as more parts of it load < 1325864365 997266 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like java from here :p < 1325864378 864042 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the screen updates as that happens < 1325864381 494147 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so how does this cause a memory leak, wouldn't the resources be freeded once the image is actually drawn? < 1325864385 543950 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: Isn't Baer the guy who wrongly claims to have invented the video game? < 1325864388 987573 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: they aren't, that's the problem < 1325864408 448328 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so it keeps a reference around? < 1325864410 756920 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1325864412 500395 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and trying to work around it depends on exactly which resources it is that aren't being freed, which nobody seems to be quite sure on < 1325864427 206124 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well.. was spacewar before baer? < 1325864429 733638 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, couldn't you just look into the openjdk source? < 1325864430 846866 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well, suppose you draw one image with some transparent pixels, then another image with transparent pixels on top of it, and neither have loaded < 1325864432 828120 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :to figure it out < 1325864433 500420 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess it probably ways < 1325864435 580509 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it needs to start backgrounding both < 1325864438 38397 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: Tennis for Two was. < 1325864445 827375 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: hmm, I typically have problems finding specific bits of Java library source < 1325864450 171772 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes, Spacewar! was. < 1325864455 569022 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :As were several others: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_video_game#History < 1325864461 360820 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've tried before now, it's kind-of luck-based whether Ican find it anywhere < 1325864467 434665 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it obviously needs to draw in the same order as they are submitted < 1325864469 561168 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so hm < 1325864473 820738 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no, this is Java < 1325864477 587127 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, cool. lazy evaluation of Levenshtein distance is much faster than the regular eager approach. < 1325864485 597982 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: Even Baer's claimed date of the original idea postdates the Cathode Ray Tube Amusement Device thing. < 1325864487 346068 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it obviously needs to draw all the pixels as soon as they can be calculated, and assume transparent if it doesn't know < 1325864502 991422 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you can't draw transparency out of order, it would result in incorrect blending! < 1325864519 858335 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: You still need to do the dynamic programming yourself: http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Edit_distance < 1325864523 173862 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you can, because you're keeping references to all the images around < 1325864526 187593 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is the reason z-buffering doesn't work on transparent polygons in 3D graphics < 1325864529 459077 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm okay < 1325864530 791743 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you recalculate each pixel when any of the images in the stack loads < 1325864533 55897 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I suspect you could abstract it out a bit. < 1325864535 38097 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you see where the memory leak comes from now? < 1325864540 361401 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1325864546 163768 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it is utterly stupid though < 1325864555 218535 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I'm not disagreeing with you on that < 1325864555 376878 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: wow.. that page is really full of trivia < 1325864560 917663 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Couldn't you just block until it's drawn? < 1325864569 12895 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they should be congratulated on that < 1325864574 648202 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: Err, not compared to most Wikipedia articles. < 1325864579 846133 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: my guess is no, because that'd involve blocking the Swing UI thread, and there's only one of those < 1325864588 318255 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the image loading code probably tries to call into it < 1325864593 638818 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok it's not trivial < 1325864594 114981 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: heh < 1325864598 824424 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in order to redraw the bit of the image that just loaded < 1325864618 437695 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but.. in any normal human's life, the history of video games is useless information :D < 1325864625 866927 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: anyway, I'm not convinced that it drops the reference to the image even when it's fully loaded < 1325864630 343059 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for reasons I don't fully understand < 1325864649 9544 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one might as well say that history is useless < 1325864649 326914 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as I can tell, all the solutions to the image problem so far have focused on not leaking huge int arrays < 1325864656 363290 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than focusing on not leaking stacks of metadata < 1325864659 102817 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, speaking of which, I saw a presentation on a solution to having to apply the painters algorithm for transparency on GPUs, using linked lists on them. Normally this is a terrible idea of course, but it used some new atomic counters feature. The presentation was by AMD so they probably know what they are doing < 1325864662 676083 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1325864664 461603 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is much smaller and thus less obvious when profiling < 1325864665 825087 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for some specific definition of useless < 1325864669 461567 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is useless < 1325864674 707870 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :blah < 1325864685 141997 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, basically a linked list per fragment which is then sorted at the end < 1325864688 989523 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: incidentally, I was surprised to learn that there are C->VHDL tools < 1325864692 514635 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: a Perl program that doesn't import anything. < 1325864696 43230 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds harder than ICA->VHDL to me :-) < 1325864698 983681 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I wasn't < 1325864701 6863 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*:) whoops forgot i was consistentising < 1325864702 370774 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it would mean you don't have to split intersecting polygons and so on < 1325864702 688251 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're on very limited subsets of C < 1325864705 191372 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kind of neat < 1325864707 176982 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh < 1325864709 242008 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lame < 1325864710 553810 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1325864737 54460 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: also, the few tools that try to implement larger subsets typically get it wrong < 1325864742 491747 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a paragraph about this in one of my papers < 1325864755 238121 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Ah, http://blog.tmorris.net/finding-the-levenshtein-distance-in-scala/. < 1325864765 499142 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Easily implementable with http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/data-memocombinators/0.4.3/doc/html/Data-MemoCombinators.html. < 1325864765 975624 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't scala eager? < 1325864784 379499 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(e.g. unsafeArrayRange) < 1325864792 432133 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it has optional laziness, as used there < 1325864795 66474 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: waaaa what is this magic. < 1325864799 968488 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ah, OK < 1325864801 925883 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just presenting a nicer implementation than my previously-linked one. < 1325864804 430980 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: What is what magic? < 1325864809 452919 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: memo combinators < 1325864819 97799 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: It's trivial. < 1325864822 540930 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1325864824 168942 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :bool :: Memo Bool < 1325864824 328193 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :bool f = cond (f True) (f False) < 1325864824 487001 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : where < 1325864824 643199 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : cond t f True = t < 1325864824 643394 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : cond t f False = f < 1325864824 805473 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :list :: Memo a -> Memo [a] < 1325864826 748989 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :list m f = table (f []) (m (\x -> list m (f . (x:)))) < 1325864828 812664 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : where < 1325864830 788592 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : table nil cons [] = nil < 1325864832 733543 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : table nil cons (x:xs) = cons x xs < 1325864834 717463 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just uses a trie of bits for integral types. < 1325864846 905220 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Relies on the benign mutating nature of sharing that you don't understand because you think seq has side-effects. < 1325865115 584417 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm... I was on windows and ran a java program using swing... I happened to have fraps running (I forgot I left that running), it displays an FPS counter in the top right corner of Direct3D and OpenGL programs. It did that for the swing program too. How curious. < 1325865130 192198 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yeah I don't understand... < 1325865133 502207 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1325865187 680517 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Indeed. < 1325865218 793308 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: at one time i tried to sit down and start thinking about the topic of worms terrain.. this is how it ended up looking http://oi44.tinypic.com/o6jrjo.jpg < 1325865233 883427 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I also don't understand what it has to do with seq < 1325865235 786353 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :suffice to say i got sidetracked and never really returned to it < 1325865244 307735 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's weird-looking terrain < 1325865255 974389 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :same concept as websplat, only using Word documents as the source? < 1325865265 753727 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha < 1325865266 705215 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :openoffice < 1325865284 200256 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Because it's the same benign mutation. < 1325865288 249071 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i may be on windows but i am using openoffice < 1325865293 129687 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1325865294 914429 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, it isn't really expensive. The reason is that computers are very fast. < 1325865318 538367 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: strict evaluation? < 1325865342 805248 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, it has less magic in a way; seq somehow manages to special-case each data type individually, whereas that's writing the special cases out so it doesn't look nearly so magical < 1325865346 972587 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, and you end up using the memory anyway < 1325865366 968337 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i intended to go right into the subject in detail in a rant, but if i was capable of such applied focus i wouldn't be so hopeless < 1325865390 728819 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, that's a way to explain seq, but doesn't define its semantics at all < 1325865401 88665 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: right, indeed < 1325865403 591624 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the semantics of seq are incredibly trivial < 1325865410 506278 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it may have been in here that someone inspired me that bitmapped terrain isn't a panacea < 1325865410 822785 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm explaning the difference between seq and Memo in terms of magicalness < 1325865411 834430 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: seq ⊥ b = ⊥; seq a b = b < 1325865413 342253 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or some irc channel < 1325865415 181376 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not defining either itself < 1325865418 617177 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, err, no < 1325865424 732425 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not how Memo works at all < 1325865428 540611 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's unrelated to the pattern-matching < 1325865437 791750 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, hmm, in that case I don't understand it < 1325865441 523514 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has an idea for a game like websplat except the idea is to be actually fun to play instead of just cool. < 1325865443 628516 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not surprised < 1325865449 302755 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: websplat is fun on havenworks < 1325865457 796313 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, is there an onRedraw function or such for JPanels? Or am I approaching that from the wrong direction. < 1325865458 272616 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that site that doesn't exist anymore? < 1325865460 19191 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is it up now? < 1325865483 975140 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: 253 kilobytes is a tiny amount of memory for an HD screen-sized area. < 1325865491 397406 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I'm kind of used to taking the opengl and SDL approach which is to draw in a main loop, not sure if that is the correct approach for swing < 1325865496 343701 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The waiting comment makes no sense, and it's not computationally expensive to work on bitmaps at all. < 1325865512 410456 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The two basic operations stuff also doesn't really make sense; the two basic operations are poke and peek, really. < 1325865517 14935 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, that's not a rant. < 1325865524 527708 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1325865531 143405 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I would bet money that Swing is event-based. < 1325865534 797026 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: in swing, everything happens in response to something < 1325865539 290168 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kerching. < 1325865539 607606 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1325865540 432780 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gimme money. < 1325865546 20200 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that is the approach to take then < 1325865556 827786 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1325865557 977765 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :far more annoying < 1325865563 295531 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :standard way of drawing something is to override paintComponent < 1325865569 490373 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and of course "events" in Java are actually "subclasses" :P < 1325865582 58159 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that whenever Swing tries to redraw it, it ends up calling your custom redraw code < 1325865584 159458 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well after that i went on to discover that sprites could carry more interesting information than they normally do, and never did return back to the actual topic < 1325865585 515338 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I guess I need to use two threads then to deal with the network... < 1325865586 825013 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well < 1325865590 846202 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: that's, umm, not even wrong, but it is rather misleading < 1325865600 833023 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well, the general rule is that events have to be handled really quickly < 1325865607 781927 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: "Houdini cares for the children of the world. 10% of the revenues generated by Houdini 2 will be donated to Unicef to support their ongoing efforts to improve children's living conditions all over the world." < 1325865609 80997 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want to do something slow in response to one, you start a new thread < 1325865610 952637 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: You can't compete against LOVE. < 1325865616 346706 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, right, this is much simpler with the main loop approach really < 1325865630 579687 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: Quite a trailblazer. < 1325865636 860491 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really, I actually consider the main loop approach really bad < 1325865637 852278 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how is it misleading? typically the pattern is that you override some kind of interface (occasionally with only one method). < 1325865646 307274 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The main loop approach is ridiculous. < 1325865646 784937 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :often as an anonymous class. < 1325865658 19213 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :when I'm working with a main-loop-based API, I typically implement an event loop in it < 1325865662 785631 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1325865673 469139 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and even then, SDL works by repeatedly calling usleep(1000) in a loop < 1325865673 985296 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'd compete only against stockfish anyway, I'm not going to pay for better engines < 1325865675 326029 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Callbacks are more ridiculous, though.) < 1325865676 955089 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl < 1325865678 782374 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is ridiculous < 1325865700 692881 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, really? heh < 1325865712 32000 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Err. < 1325865718 542450 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: not only that, it alternates usleep and gettimeofday < 1325865719 19183 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :when i discussed my findings, someone then explained to me: < 1325865719 175777 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: No? < 1325865723 782505 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually the first icon and cursor format on Windows supported exactly that. it had two bits per pixel, one was ANDed with the underlying pixel, the other was XORed with the result of the and so with an AND bit of 0 and XOR bit of 0, you get black, 0/1 gives you white, 1/0 gives you transparent and 1/1 gives you inverted. quite clever actually IMO < 1325865727 275248 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, um... < 1325865729 79090 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: mcmap runs with 0% CPU usage most of the time. < 1325865736 53586 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: exactly < 1325865741 290790 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, usleep would have no CPU usage < 1325865745 850440 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, OK. < 1325865749 901133 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :turns out that waking every millisecond is close enough to 0% to be a rounding error < 1325865754 92504 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it really spams the hell out of strace < 1325865759 369540 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1325865764 401944 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nobody run mcmap on a laptop. < 1325865767 932023 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then i discovered alvy ray smith who was insistant that pixels are not rectangles < 1325865775 954048 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I did, but mc is far worse :P < 1325865777 384012 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're not. < 1325865796 365417 :PiRSquared17_!~chatzilla@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 JOIN :#esoteric < 1325865798 191691 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so.. i mean i really did end up going down the rabbit hole quite some depth < 1325865799 319538 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu < 1325865801 424343 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway it is sensible for what SDL is trying to be < 1325865805 492270 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didnt get all the way though < 1325865809 565902 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pixels are more like... dots right? < 1325865810 876917 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you are going to do the same sort of stuff for opengl too < 1325865814 488346 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: No. < 1325865815 957615 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: err, are you serious? < 1325865820 469971 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can see alvy's influence on me in my recent post < 1325865826 303367 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should just wait for the next timed event, or be interrupted by untimed events < 1325865827 575173 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: They're points. < 1325865830 30798 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you think interrupts are /for/? < 1325865830 898427 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, maybe we misunderstood each other < 1325865833 319278 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that's what I meant < 1325865838 129866 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"video represents the intentional act of manipulating visible objects to represent images, at a high enough frequency that those images appear to consist of a sequence of frames" < 1325865839 25876 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the user asks for a timer, fine, make a timer < 1325865844 299527 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: "dot" is the unfancy way of saying "point" < 1325865854 753578 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: "Dot" usually means "little square/circle". < 1325865858 480842 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was how i defined video a few screens up < 1325865859 114883 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then sleep until the next time the timer would run out < 1325865862 409291 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh, well no, not that. < 1325865884 104392 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well, if you are using opengl you are going to need to keep redrawing, preferably at least at vsync-speed < 1325865893 804242 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, doing the same for SDL seems sensible to me < 1325865900 543457 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: so trigger on vsyncs < 1325865905 152013 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than polling every millisecond < 1325865921 62741 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd be very surprised if there weren't an interrupt connected to vsyncs or vblanks < 1325865930 949109 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, except what happens if you are only able to reach 50 FPS and trigger on vsync? You are going to get every second vsync < 1325865935 153764 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and get 30 FPS instead < 1325865944 10579 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but it would be accurate to say that pixels are points that correspond to rectangles, yes? < 1325865950 617248 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: No. < 1325865961 849555 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=pixels%20are%20not%20little%20squares&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCIQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cs.princeton.edu%2Fcourses%2Farchive%2Fspr06%2Fcos426%2Fpapers%2Fsmith95b.pdf&ei=1hsHT6CpGoaD-watrfmrAQ&usg=AFQjCNFXhye-H_eqy71fz4fA904iIHgNGw&sig2=8Ru3uE2J7d4vHgj5YDTdNA < 1325865965 43581 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate you, Google. < 1325865966 946867 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my definition of video works for people in a stadium holding up colored panels to form an image < 1325866035 429691 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, pixels are just points? < 1325866053 250004 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, usually with colours < 1325866069 881426 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are kind of useless if there isn't at least one bit of information per pixel < 1325866074 565559 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway bbl really now < 1325866110 737739 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think the real question is.. what shape are color qualia < 1325866128 514744 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do they even have shape? < 1325866172 662370 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the shape uhhh .. potentially variable between concious beings < 1325866214 235443 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ah < 1325866231 259821 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: what < 1325866243 85093 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric : >:-) < 1325866262 860878 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok sorry i will rephrase < 1325866278 50150 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the nature of the qualia in which the visual field consists < 1325866293 370646 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and is it variable between creatures with visual fields < 1325866295 478107 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/concious/conscious/ s/qualia/koala/ < 1325866325 443495 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :are they points < 1325866331 233264 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :are they uniform? < 1325866343 270516 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1325866350 292333 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1325866354 528356 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :are they side by side? < 1325866376 899270 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty deep, i know.. < 1325866386 737284 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :noone would question that it's a deep topic < 1325866438 13105 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: I would think it corresponds to however our brain processes the 90-million-something cone and rod cells in the human eye. < 1325866460 234801 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*the data from those cells < 1325866471 413804 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the data can come from the tongue also < 1325866480 69282 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is pretty confusing < 1325866483 503491 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :....I can't see with my tongue < 1325866485 924901 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are you talking about. < 1325866499 866227 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also synesthesiates sometimes see sound < 1325866520 302172 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the military invented a device which uses the tongue to feed visual info into the brain < 1325866524 445692 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also drugs can do fun things to your vision. < 1325866599 912883 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :id say the system is designed for eye data < 1325866607 687637 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it can recieve data from other sources < 1325866614 119001 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1325866620 70644 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :much like a word processor can view an executable file < 1325866625 579365 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1325866666 380544 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this topic gives me mind numbing headaches < 1325866685 412810 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should learn Haskell instead. < 1325866724 249791 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and feeds into subconcious anxieties such as not having free will, or being a machine, or not really existing < 1325866727 976468 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :all that kind of thing < 1325866747 342706 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which i think, is a bit of a lie < 1325866779 730051 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anxiety seems to usually be triggered by actual percieved dangers i think < 1325866793 226309 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or the rippling effects of past percieved danegrs < 1325866846 882566 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :having sufficiently damaged you all... i think i should take a chat break < 1325866964 114187 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I'm unable to find the java function that wraps select() < 1325866980 544260 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(on multiple sockets) < 1325866981 337342 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: threads < 1325866996 161403 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what do you do if you have thousands of sockets? < 1325866997 163124 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: select is far too low-level for this sort of thing < 1325867001 51923 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you have thousands of threads < 1325867001 208196 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: threads < 1325867008 459520 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is stupid < 1325867008 616526 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, if you have thousands of sockets, select won't actually work < 1325867013 35837 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can't count to a thousand < 1325867013 907858 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, sure, epoll < 1325867016 545362 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever < 1325867030 950898 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, i believe i was rubbing shoulders with some cults in a chatroom.. and led me to preoccupation with useless things < 1325867033 786344 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: do you know any languages that aren't imperative? < 1325867043 837530 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes, erlang, some haskell < 1325867050 427860 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : noone would question that it's a deep topic < 1325867052 812977 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this an invitation? < 1325867055 195859 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so java's threads are lightweight enough? < 1325867056 308662 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well, what's the equivalent of select in erlang? < 1325867057 102037 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1325867064 924535 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, very very lightweight threads < 1325867068 535338 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, /nothing/ in Java is lightweight < 1325867071 117649 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, but java /is/ imperative. < 1325867073 608746 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523, so java's threads are lightweight enough? < 1325867076 824318 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Java's threads are OS threads. < 1325867078 910700 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it doesn't really matter what you use, it's going to be equally heavy either way < 1325867079 864400 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1325867104 675051 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if something isn't working for you, you just add extra layers of abstraction < 1325867105 984723 :iamcal!u1110@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hllmxxhlpazharqv QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1325867107 167787 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it won't actually /help/ < 1325867112 803862 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it'll make things feel more Javay < 1325867121 437966 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you use threads (processes they are called) in erlang, but they are cheap. Including the initial stack size it is about 300 words of memory to create a new thread. < 1325867150 562999 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: the vast majority of performance problems with Java, the usual solution is "get more memory" < 1325867155 276242 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: its a sign i am going nutso < 1325867165 22131 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or on OS X, "tell the JVM it's allowed to use more memory" < 1325867176 161807 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you need that on linux too < 1325867179 939690 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, for minecraft at least < 1325867183 676410 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: is this relevant maybe? http://docs.oracle.com/javase/1.4.2/docs/api/java/nio/channels/Selector.html < 1325867186 257259 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway there are computational overheads in thread switching. < 1325867190 616629 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1325867199 563384 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, let me look < 1325867211 407874 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1325867211 884283 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as I can tell this is how Java does select() < 1325867226 341606 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems a bit complicated but sure, I'll take a look at it < 1325867255 215320 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :java.nio.* is often a good bet for "more complicated" IO needs. < 1325867262 392149 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1325867293 407110 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: just click through the subclasses and interfaces and you'll figure it out. :P < 1325867334 725869 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://www.exampledepot.com/egs/java.nio/NbClient.html < 1325867393 493878 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, btw erlang actually uses epoll or kqueue for polling if available, it just hides that with its userspace threads (which are scheduled on OS threads, to be able to take advantage of multiple processors) < 1325867427 782679 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't most userspace thread systems work like that? < 1325867433 270420 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, server sockets in this case, but I see there is a link to that as well < 1325867440 483790 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, well you could use only one OS thread < 1325867465 729818 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :right but do people actually do that? < 1325867489 178199 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, erlang used to do that, way back before multiple CPUs were common. < 1325867501 430813 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1325867502 898686 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :As a historical interest, Sun JVM pre-1.2 had "green threads" that I think might've been single-core-only. < 1325867516 185306 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :1.2 went to native OS threads. < 1325867527 780510 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :green threads are far better IMO. < 1325867549 766046 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we need other colours of thread < 1325867553 239486 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :thousands of OS threads is not a good idea. Tens of thousands of erlang threads is a non-issue. < 1325867556 575028 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like indigo threads, for making jeans < 1325867560 540923 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1325867637 369187 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1325867650 403780 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Red threads which are, like, so heavyweight it's not even funny. Takes a minute to even spawn one. < 1325867667 699816 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I would guess cygwin uses them < 1325867765 877985 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :also oh god, the selector API looks painful. Less painful than threads though. < 1325867785 845609 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess ais and elliott would disagree about that < 1325867788 68219 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has decided to not try writing an AI anytime soon. < 1325867799 934256 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no clue what would make a good portal chess strategy, since I haven't played it. < 1325867824 305167 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1325867838 871552 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: the best problems are the ones where the solution isn't immediately obvious upon seeing the problem < 1325867864 671723 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes those are the ones that are actually problems. < 1325867918 217116 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i believe the problem with the patent system is that most patents are obvious solutions to obscure problem definitions < 1325867964 684432 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then -- ok ill wrap up this obvious troll rant quickly -- the patent system is used to keep the economy working.. < 1325867965 958570 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION should patent portal chess. < 1325868031 891362 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kind of like slow internet connections are good at preventing movie pirating < 1325868049 793469 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1325868068 608015 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: I think the patent system exists because inventors feel entitled to the spoils of their inventions and this makes sense from an ethical perspective. Paradoxically, people claim that it encourages competition, despite it doing the exact opposite of that by definition. < 1325868102 341836 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe once it did, but that purpose is long lost < 1325868125 7438 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/an ethical perspective/a society's intuitive ethical perspective/ < 1325868145 354766 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kind of like the way the word gay now means blasphemous or mentally ill in some circles < 1325868146 345760 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also I'm not so sure all softfloats are IEEE-like, though I don't really have counter-examples (except I think some CC65/SDCC float thing); all softfloats on system families where there sometimes are (IEEE) hardfloats are of course all IEEE-like for sanity. < 1325868184 162421 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders how he should represent loops. < 1325868228 276653 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kind of like the way a word which once meant happy now means blasphemous or mentally ill or likely to get aids in some circles < 1325868243 505493 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I could just set all of the relevant cells with a "isDeathWall" boolean... < 1325868259 908151 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but maybe there's a better way. < 1325868269 937131 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :SHARC native floats are "IEEE-ish" 40 bit "extended single-precision" things, but it reads/writes 32-bit IEEE floats; much like x87 except half the bits, really. Though I doubt anyone's running mcmap on a DSP. < 1325868327 777688 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: the bourgeois would tend to possess the rare < 1325868339 639552 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whats rare in one place may be common in another place < 1325868355 917350 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :like air < 1325868359 288661 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :air isn't very common in space. < 1325868370 446575 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hence, ummm < 1325868402 570638 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hence when we become asteroid-mining space colonists air will become an economic resource. < 1325868444 743116 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really want to retag this question with [c] so I get all the attention, but there's a maximum of 5 tags :'( < 1325868449 147575 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the possession of diamonds by the bourgeois is more about establishing their bourgeoisness more than wanting a malleable metal < 1325868462 801796 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops i forgot i said diamonds instead of gold < 1325868469 346987 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :we'll need large botanical gardens in our space colonies with reflective panels to direct solar energy towards the plants. < 1325868475 896038 :iamcal!u1110@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zrhmfnfvskqbtrxt JOIN :#esoteric < 1325868488 808320 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: well most people want gold because it has value. < 1325868490 595671 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :much like money. < 1325868500 24024 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :before money became something other than "paper representing gold" < 1325868527 74935 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or... after? or... < 1325868531 57295 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know why I said before. < 1325868543 518821 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote the possession of diamonds by the bourgeois is more about establishing their bourgeoisness more than wanting a malleable metal oops i forgot i said diamonds instead of gold < 1325868547 168045 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :795) the possession of diamonds by the bourgeois is more about establishing their bourgeoisness more than wanting a malleable metal oops i forgot i said diamonds instead of gold < 1325868563 788587 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Gold isn't really very useful. < 1325868568 390139 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's why it's such a good currency. < 1325868576 766368 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nobody much wants it for anything else. < 1325868583 196405 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so patents represent an asset that a company obtains for doing some work. < 1325868584 942513 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's useful /now/, because we have uses for basically everything now. < 1325868587 720901 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are just assets < 1325868589 385400 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes but I'm not sure if that's /why/ it's currency. certainly that helps. < 1325868604 765735 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except thulium. < 1325868609 963717 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :theres no morals or ethics guiding companies to want patents < 1325868619 261653 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its just assets for the sake of assets < 1325868626 127332 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for whatever uses a company has for assets < 1325868630 55659 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/sake of assets/sake of money/ < 1325868648 795724 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet money is a good use. < 1325868672 221565 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm I may just represent loops as a structure seperate from the Vector grid. < 1325868695 980509 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok ok my words full of fallacies < 1325868698 836554 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that I can treat them as a group rather than doing gross traversal stuff. < 1325868716 714326 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(no one knows what I'm talking about right now....) < 1325868745 350136 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well because other companies could otherwise exploit a companys work, a patent protects a companys investment of time/energy/money into some work < 1325868755 854703 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: yes but I'm not sure if that's /why/ it's currency. certainly that helps. < 1325868763 461262 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: If something is really useful, people will be too busy using it to trade it. < 1325868768 718777 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: right. < 1325868781 462080 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yeah, but it's a lot less useful than lots of other things. < 1325868783 883446 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess what i am trying to say is that the protection of investments is the key thing, and not the celebration of invention or innovation < 1325868796 142247 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : theres no morals or ethics guiding companies to want patents < 1325868796 298740 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : its just assets for the sake of assets < 1325868796 298821 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : for whatever uses a company has for assets < 1325868799 237303 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Today itidus21 learned: Capitalism! < 1325868809 483544 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I think gold also became a currency because it was pretty and hard to obtain historically. < 1325868812 221307 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: You're talking about portal chess. < 1325868815 953094 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes < 1325868824 803085 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, duh, yes, only scarce resources are valuable. < 1325868877 854554 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :company makes an investment, others threaten that investment, company protects the investment using some set of laws which lately tends to be patents < 1325868891 213603 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, I think I'll represent all the loops on the board as a Vector of sets. This allows me to efficiently remove them and change their boundaries as a group, but also allowing me to test if positions are within a loop because, well, they're sets. < 1325868892 483256 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose there is always laws in place to protect the investment a company makes < 1325868929 543502 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but maybe corporations do business like katamari < 1325868944 845871 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if I should make it a rule that you cannot willingly place a piece within a loop. This basically makes them like impenetrable (redirectable) walls. < 1325868968 202500 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1325868975 40762 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a physical game it would be cool to allow pieces to accidentally meander into loops, because their player forgot about their existence. < 1325868987 578310 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what i am trying to say here is that, any AI which is easy to program is pointless :)) :)) < 1325868989 166399 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Be careful about using Vectors. < 1325868989 646275 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but presumably in a computer representation you have graphics that allow you to see all the loops. < 1325868995 732088 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, didn't you decide above not to write an AI? < 1325868996 49534 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: why's that? < 1325868999 423427 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: correct. < 1325869005 102853 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :my purpose was never to write an AI. < 1325869006 373315 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_> < 1325869011 292126 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what are you doing now? < 1325869013 671996 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Every update requires copying all the data (all the pointers if you used a boxed vector). < 1325869018 63369 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the method of writing an AI is too obvious.. then the AI is too trivial < 1325869022 638086 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the game is too easy < 1325869027 670632 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :writing a server program that connects to clients and implements a game of portal chess. < 1325869037 319141 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: It's probably good if you have 64 elements but not if you have a few hundred. < 1325869046 579103 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, how does portal chess differ from normal chess? < 1325869051 367932 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, I hope it involves a portal gun < 1325869057 560059 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: this Vector will, in all likelihood, remain at 0 to 2 elements. < 1325869064 629158 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could just as easily use a linked list. < 1325869070 662498 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that would be awesome to apply on the other side < 1325869078 987610 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :except that I think I would want random access? not sure. < 1325869083 102706 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric : kallisti: the best problems are the ones where the solution isn't immediately obvious upon seeing the problem i believe the problem with the patent system is that most patents are obvious solutions to obscure problem definitions [...] if the method of writing an AI is too obvious.. then the AI is too trivial < 1325869090 493525 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :see, there is method to my madness < 1325869095 685314 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :waahahahahhaha < 1325869117 471739 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it involves two pieces that are portals. < 1325869130 473583 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: which other pieces and projectile abstraction things can pass through < 1325869163 205948 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, oh, less fun than a portal gun (probably saner though) < 1325869196 913632 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :honestly the "loop" rule is akin to one of the weird chess rules like en passant or the trade-pawn-for-any-other-piece rule. < 1325869205 50873 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes considering it's a game of chess. < 1325869213 55626 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1325869235 57890 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: this is why we need inspiration and motivation, because all good things require hard work and commitment < 1325869242 587536 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1325869248 860834 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but who knows, maybe in the future thriving scene of portal chess the loop rule will take on an unforseen importance in portal chess strategy. < 1325869278 326614 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, in collecting motivation it is important for us to realize it's ok to abandon a project which we don't like < 1325869281 30003 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, "because all good things require hard work and commitment" <-- not really, garlic doesn't require hard work as such < 1325869298 2038 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... < 1325869299 58825 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, the loop rule being? < 1325869341 212869 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay so there are pieces called cannons that can, as their move, fire a projectile in one of four directions. This projectile will capture something in its path, or will otherwise interact with a piece in the way its rules specify. < 1325869345 627472 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1325869362 914230 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :one such piece is portals themselves. if a projectile goes through the opening of a portal it will continue out of the other portal < 1325869368 37919 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, ah < 1325869372 294535 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :another piece is the arrow < 1325869389 135761 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :which, will redirect the path of the projectile in the direction that it's facing. < 1325869394 503958 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1325869397 880809 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, I see < 1325869401 765003 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :using these two pieces you can form projectile loops < 1325869404 732277 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, so what happens in the case of a loop? < 1325869408 585607 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :where the projectile travels indefinitely in a loop. < 1325869412 235706 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :at which point < 1325869419 907522 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it remains as a persistent part of the game state. < 1325869428 118284 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I hoped for an explosion < 1325869429 311257 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :until something in its path breaks the loop. < 1325869438 8503 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, and what effect does breaking said path have? < 1325869449 468595 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, imagine you place an arrow within the loop < 1325869459 754313 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :immediately a projectile fires from the direction the arrow is pointing < 1325869463 679721 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :simultaneously breaking the loop. < 1325869467 95460 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you could change it into another loop < 1325869470 542650 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1325869471 890796 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :with enough arrows < 1325869477 573843 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :how many arrows do you have < 1325869479 518872 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are only 4 arrows on the board. < 1325869481 580159 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 per player < 1325869488 605566 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes that's possible. < 1325869489 763280 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1325869498 798607 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the main purpose would be to allow arrows to quickly capture pieces. < 1325869508 889893 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :a loop is immediately a danger if an arrow is nearby < 1325869512 942668 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1325869548 880020 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, do the pieces have hitpoints or are cannon shots one-hit kills? < 1325869560 454415 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :they capture pieces < 1325869565 417527 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not too removed from chess in that sense. < 1325869569 230428 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the goal is to capture the king. < 1325869575 603476 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1325869586 927593 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :with capture you don't mean traditional chess capture? < 1325869589 413006 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the pieces are arranged as in chess. < 1325869603 739228 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION imagines chess with HP and headshots. < 1325869621 340282 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: hmmm, well no it could work that way. < 1325869621 497987 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :headshots < 1325869632 77035 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be against the rules for a king to walkinto the line of sight of a cannon, for example. < 1325869638 686910 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if the king has no valid moves < 1325869641 106853 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :then that's checkmate < 1325869644 724811 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1325869661 154574 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: you need a concept artist < 1325869677 826284 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone like yoshitaka amano or akiman < 1325869682 380968 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, anyway what about a variant of chess were each capture causes a mini-game in the form of D&D style fight with d20 and so on? < 1325869686 546965 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : * Vorpal imagines chess with HP and headshots. < 1325869700 274016 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, yes? < 1325869712 301973 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: D&D kind of already works like this if you play with a grid map. < 1325869725 434990 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :After me and a friend got kicked out of the school library for playing Halo on the library computers when we were bored we invested quite a bit of time into inventing Chess Halo. < 1325869736 567609 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, hm kind of, except more than one unit move per turn < 1325869739 982750 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1325869742 355791 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(All the school computers have Halo because.... I don't know.) < 1325869749 770958 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: anyway I'm not going to suddenly start creating a new chess variant when I want to focus on implementing, playtesting, and improving my current game. < 1325869751 241866 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, awesome < 1325869762 430548 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also there's some rule issues to decide. < 1325869769 934516 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I currently have, I think, 3 variant rules. < 1325869774 856708 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, and yes that is strange < 1325869777 256 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I should probably pick a "standard" rule. < 1325869783 160203 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :concerning loops and how they interact with portals. < 1325869786 769415 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, what about chess on a finite euclidean plane < 1325869798 145849 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: what are the pieces? points? < 1325869803 71471 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are "turns" in a continuous space. < 1325869814 892599 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the pieces could be circles :D < 1325869819 186545 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :centered on points < 1325869825 617496 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's an RTS, I assume. < 1325869842 896168 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise turns would have to be discrete steps < 1325869848 264939 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although one with infinitely fast thinking for each player. < 1325869850 685637 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, and you could do collision tests to see if you capture < 1325869851 679691 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1325869855 449116 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: turns involve translating from one point to another point with some given min/max < 1325869857 516468 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :collision checks* < 1325869868 739553 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: the current issue is that it's not clear how portals should interact with loops < 1325869874 897333 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and uhmm.. < 1325869877 887 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the capture rules for portals are direction-based < 1325869890 413146 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, hm... explode < 1325869894 867834 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, definitely explode < 1325869897 988852 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :a portal cannot be captured from the direction it's facing. an attempt to do so results in the piece exiting through the other side. < 1325869907 595212 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, causing AOE damage < 1325869915 522524 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm seeing this as basically DEFCON except chess rather than war. < 1325869916 475045 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the 3x3 centered on the portal < 1325869921 893141 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no that's what happens when a portal tries to pass through its sister portal. :P < 1325869931 425247 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, wow that sounds awesome < 1325869933 52720 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :one explosion rule is enough < 1325869936 427746 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, aww < 1325869947 44838 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, you can never have too many explosions < 1325869956 39841 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"WHITE LAUNCH DETECTED" < 1325869957 351921 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could actually use the explosion to your advantage < 1325869961 992765 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, :D < 1325869969 332358 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if destroying both your portals is worth the outcome < 1325869980 722912 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"E5 HIT, 1 DEAD" < 1325869984 620826 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : kallisti what happens if the king is in the exploded area? < 1325869996 439693 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also putting your portals within line of sight of each other and having them facing each other basically creates a space where a king cannot enter < 1325870000 373702 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because he could get exploded. < 1325870026 613654 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, and then we could do a fallout-style followup :D < 1325870055 506146 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Climbing up the ruins of the black queen? < 1325870058 8111 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway back to the loop/portal problem. the problem is that there are two kinds of loops. one is unidirectional, meaning that there is a definite direction to such a loop. it travels in a clockwise or counter clockwise circuit. < 1325870061 464642 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This looks so awesome in my head. < 1325870063 728550 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, that sounds dirtly < 1325870066 587447 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :dirty* < 1325870078 485362 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in this situation a portal can enter the loop and "catch" the projectile causing it to be expelled from its sister portal. < 1325870083 977699 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(at least if another chess piece does it) < 1325870089 87872 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, and yes, same here < 1325870091 947118 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :— Arvid "I couldn't find any SCSI porn!" Norlander. < 1325870105 402222 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :however another class of loops are "bidirectional"... they oscillate back and forth between two endpoints. < 1325870106 35809 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, where did I say that was a bad thing? < 1325870123 120080 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, anyway I did that to prove that rule 34 was incorrect < 1325870124 271878 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was a tangible sense of disappointment there. < 1325870151 133895 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, heh < 1325870152 125813 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this situation is the ambiguous one. what happens when a portal enters a bidirectional loop? you could have it so that portals are captured, or you could have it where portals always redirect. or you could have it so that portals have a 50/50 chance of either. < 1325870176 113439 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just because you can't find something is not proof of it not existing. < 1325870179 98783 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :these are the 3 rule possibilites. < 1325870185 448767 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, I would suggest oscillation at a fixed frequency. Makes it harder to keep track of the game for the players < 1325870198 662824 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: so you want a turn-based game to have a real-time element? < 1325870206 12579 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, indeed. But it wasn't within the first few pages of google image search results < 1325870207 59477 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose that's possible on a computer. < 1325870224 910786 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it is very unlikely it exists though at least < 1325870243 703002 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you know whats dissapointing? having an idea and then googling it.. well time for me to google this finite euclidean plane chess idea of mine < 1325870249 927435 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, sure. < 1325870251 358382 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: that basically means that you have to time how long it takes for a turn to transpire and correctly position the portal at the right time in order to catch the projectile. < 1325870264 378257 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this sounds really... wonky to me. it doesn't make any sense in a turn-based strategy game. < 1325870268 856805 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's very implementation dependent. < 1325870270 5985 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, I like really screwy chess variants :P < 1325870279 911673 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :how much time passes in piece movement? < 1325870280 388439 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.epicycle.org.uk/images/carriers.jpg -- I don't know, that's pretty close. (Google Image search result for "scsi porn".) < 1325870287 477019 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1325870292 889999 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it instant? < 1325870295 554766 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Max SendQ exceeded < 1325870312 641403 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, no I meant real time oscillation, while the player is considering their next move. I suggest a frequency of 1-3 Hz < 1325870322 723521 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would rather have the "portals can always catch bidirectional loops if the portal is facing one of the two directions" rule < 1325870323 518335 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1325870330 152015 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, you can then time your move to take advantage of it < 1325870340 10719 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it is strategically equivalent to the real-time-frequency thing you're suggesting < 1325870345 300072 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :without this silly timing thing involved. :P < 1325870355 501353 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, I like silly chess variants :P < 1325870388 185135 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder if this idea is genuinely innovative < 1325870399 972087 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: also it complicates implementation for... basically no gain. < 1325870405 744634 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1325870407 530653 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have definitely never heard of a chess game based on euclidean geometry < 1325870426 2779 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but then i am clueles about chess) < 1325870444 469507 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Okay, here: http://e621.net/post/show/43346/4-3-blush-darkdoomer-iriver-overstretched-rule_34- -- note, it's a SCSI cable; you can tell from the logo. < 1325870446 966571 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, anyway I suggest you add missiles as well, with a cooldown < 1325870453 440321 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ..... < 1325870457 762466 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, you're banned from ideas now. < 1325870461 858170 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, why? < 1325870471 558840 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :still I also like the "portals always are captured (and therefore cannot cross a loop" because it has interesting consequences and makes loops more formidable defensively. < 1325870473 345101 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, anyway card games have that sort of things < 1325870477 236731 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, and they are turn based < 1325870479 657420 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the 50/50 rule is pretty much bad to me. randomness in chess? nothx < 1325870494 971520 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I see all 3 as viable rule variants < 1325870505 489226 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'll probably list all of them in the official rules. < 1325870507 261886 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, eww < 1325870563 416096 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol you could calculate the probability based on the distance the portal is from the endpoint it's facing in the loop path... < 1325870566 353518 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1325870579 207904 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :directly inbetween the two endpoints is 50/50 regardless of direction. < 1325870589 778871 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, anyway I think randomness in chess could be interesting < 1325870603 379711 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to imagine my idea.. it is like this.. the rule is that you have to move the piece in a straight line < 1325870635 925794 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, it has to be done carefully though < 1325870640 873648 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :as all randomness in games < 1325870654 700549 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's basically a corner case. < 1325870661 572830 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can move the pieces according to some set of rules based on geometry.. but the most important rule is the straight line rule < 1325870672 921202 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a very specific situation in a very specific rule. < 1325870681 470672 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, what about adding gravitation causing bent paths? < 1325870682 706797 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1325870692 188433 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa! < 1325870695 609664 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(wow that must be one fat knight) < 1325870709 890617 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes .. what about adding gravitation < 1325870711 394860 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I can actually think of a lot of different loop configurations that you could create < 1325870719 286978 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, nice < 1325870726 638505 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example you could actually put arrows in a loop in such a way that they don't interfere with the loop < 1325870737 573748 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this makes them a cannon in their own right < 1325870742 217838 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :they just turn to fire. < 1325870750 303880 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: chess with spaceships which can make an impulse thrust in a given direction once per turn < 1325870759 659165 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, anyway you could have it oscillate once per turn or such < 1325870763 151047 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :around planets < 1325870764 734374 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, that might be interesting < 1325870768 490866 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: hmmmm maybe < 1325870777 578965 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be hard to visualize it < 1325870783 296050 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :graphically < 1325870790 286251 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1325870814 291780 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless the projectiles are like huge beams with clearly labelled arrows. :P < 1325870823 107173 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"hi player I go this way" < 1325870830 431040 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"hey now I'm going this way" < 1325870835 65571 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, could easily be done on a computer < 1325870843 170189 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :computers once again become useful < 1325870845 393239 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :just make it look like >>>>> or such < 1325870848 5722 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the first time since ww2 < 1325870848 322332 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it just doesn't make sense in the model I have for how the game works... < 1325870853 841295 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :in red above the board < 1325870876 361187 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, how can you have a model when you haven't yet decided on the rules < 1325870886 35093 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the only undecided rule. < 1325870905 32248 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh, the 'coretemp' sensor on this Atom box is saying "Core 0: +23.0°C (crit = +90.0°C)" -- that sounds dubiously low, but I guess it's *possible*, since it's an Atom and mostly idle. (The box is making a worrisome noise, might be the PSU fan dying.) < 1325870918 772531 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :+23 is pretty much room temperature, though. < 1325870920 525688 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I had an old sempron that idled at 28 C < 1325870930 259982 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :when it was like 17 C inside < 1325870944 256678 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the difficulty of this rule is that it either requires a special case, a real-time element of the game, or a re-interpretation of how loops work. < 1325870950 581607 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :my current CPU tends to idle much higher, but then the fan is no longer constant speed < 1325870951 692051 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :lm-sensors tends to report all kinds of nonsense numbers, but normally coretemp's quite reliable, AFAIK. < 1325870975 943567 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yeah all machines should have IPMI < 1325870987 836291 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everyone wires the motherboard-specific sensors differently for some reason. < 1325870987 994964 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that reports temperatures with proper names too < 1325871001 198647 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it tends to be mostly reliable on thinkpads < 1325871005 363917 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(lm-sensors) < 1325871010 918657 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, even then there are some issues < 1325871032 473699 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: if i allowed gravity then i could allow acceleration < 1325871033 783796 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, and that is with the thinkpad-isa-0000 "adapter" < 1325871045 113715 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, they wire it differently in different models < 1325871051 357386 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :some stuff are the same though < 1325871061 636267 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, sure < 1325871068 206445 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be quite weird < 1325871069 992862 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mhm, modprobed also the actual superio chip found by sensors-detect ("Fintek F71862FG Super IO Sensors"); it gives temp1, temp2 and temp3 at 39, 46 and 51, respectively. < 1325871075 666962 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :No idea where those temperatures are, though. < 1325871085 363381 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, I wonder when this turns into something completely different than chess, instead of a variant of chess < 1325871088 842565 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I suppose I could simply leave it an open question, with reinterpretations of the rule being permitted. Obviously for any kind of tournament you would want to pick one rule for the entire series of games. < 1325871108 659147 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :my implementation will have the 4 non-real-time rules that I've got so far (including the oscillating one you suggested) < 1325871110 87121 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, might even be offset from the real values depending on the type of probe iirc < 1325871122 100551 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :with an option to choose which rule you want to play. < 1325871136 977862 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Certainly. Or multiplied with a different factor. < 1325871152 490338 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, or both :P < 1325871152 649472 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: turn based asteroids basically < 1325871159 61089 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, :D < 1325871172 343809 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway is there any realtime chess I wonder < 1325871189 534055 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are other RTS obviously, but are there any based on chess? < 1325871214 395684 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder if anyone has ever tried to implement asteroids with turn based < 1325871223 520703 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :doubtful < 1325871229 329586 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its so insane < 1325871235 598818 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :why don't you do it? < 1325871252 22598 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my initial definition of turn is turning to jelly < 1325871259 912430 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess if I ever implement a system that matches players together, they could each check off which rules they want to play and it will match them with anyone else that picked those rules. < 1325871263 82933 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, anyway astroids is turn based, it is just that they are very short turns and take a fixed amount of time :P < 1325871269 267615 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's further away from just getting the actual game itself. < 1325871273 798402 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(computers are not continuous!) < 1325871288 925975 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the idea is that instead of firing guns in asteroids, that you collide with things to destroy them < 1325871305 561387 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, you could only destroy the asteroid on your turn, in such a system < 1325871315 370728 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: FRP maintains a sample-independent abstraction that logically resembles continuity. < 1325871328 161203 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, FRP being? < 1325871332 987788 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :functional reactive programming < 1325871336 791386 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1325871349 359784 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course you have to sample values at some point, the code itself is written as though it were continuous. < 1325871356 742044 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, anyway I doubt astroids is implemented with it in the classical implementation < 1325871364 307769 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this isn't really an idea i just had.. this is just lots of ideas culminating < 1325871372 301437 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, and still the actual computer is discrete < 1325871397 702504 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I certainly don't disagree that computers are discrete. < 1325871399 435179 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a notepad showing you how i labor over the question of turn based vs realtime in games < 1325871416 970976 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, how is that something to labor over? < 1325871418 82934 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and finally i made some progress here < 1325871425 494826 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just decide from case to case what fits best < 1325871472 117969 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1325871479 879894 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :gameplay begins with standard chessboard.. each has a pawn piece placed somewhere on rear row. < 1325871522 335800 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :turn by turn an impulse is done by the "ship" direction and speed indicated < 1325871522 492099 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if you make the pieces continuous too? < 1325871539 884230 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't have pawns, you have a long strip of pawn at the start. < 1325871548 227024 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not in this variation < 1325871555 132046 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, interesting, how would you move it? < 1325871559 738882 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, like a barrier? < 1325871570 419515 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well could have more than 1 < 1325871593 284618 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the continuous model I mean < 1325871618 24636 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, you'd fling bits of it along defined trajectories so the integral of movement d(pawn) is within allowed bounds? < 1325871625 58091 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: of course, thanks to the sampling theorem, we know that a continuous function with no frequencies higher than N can be completely determined by a discrete signal with a sample rate of .5*N. I'm not sure what implications this has for games. :P < 1325871685 569615 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd probably have to forbid non-measurable sets of piece from being moved. < 1325871691 942024 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, hrrm < 1325871697 339925 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes < 1325871749 308860 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, I would suspect a lot of non-continuous functions in games < 1325871769 601194 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, well, depends on the game. I was thinking FPS or such here < 1325871809 124617 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I'm just not really sure how to calculate frequencies on fuctions on non-real (co)domains. < 1325871871 41383 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1325871899 115048 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl < 1325871910 78250 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but given the clock speed computers I would think that most data "frequencies" are "low enough" in comparison. < 1325871913 886537 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :+of < 1325871996 860877 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heres a pic of what i have in mind: http://oi44.tinypic.com/2sbtmvb.jpg < 1325872031 221884 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :each vector representing a turn somehow < 1325872089 497044 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :guys what if I write this portal chess server and people actually play it? < 1325872111 45349 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the trouble begins if i allow velocity.. then each vector gets modified every turn < 1325872114 582645 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you're doomed to be known as the "portal chess guy". There are worse fates. (But not many?) < 1325872129 450522 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: what are you talking about portal chess is often. < 1325872135 279427 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325872139 625568 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, often < 1325872141 77372 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not awesome < 1325872200 405312 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: are you implying that "portal chess guy" is not a title with dignity? < 1325872212 646706 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I completely disagree. < 1325872241 1241 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, no, it certainly has gravitas. < 1325872263 77944 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps even gravytude. < 1325872281 527553 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the game uses velocity and if vectors have variable time, then it means that the time your turn can determine the length of time that the other objects move during your turn < 1325872306 268843 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: yes < 1325872318 366073 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is unanticipated pain < 1325872332 212413 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :turns + real time = you can wait forever (or until a time limit) and maintain the current status quo of the system < 1325872359 972507 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then again.. < 1325872360 450747 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : but given the clock speed computers I would think that most data "frequencies" are "low enough" in comparison. <-- from what sort of data? < 1325872385 596800 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: precisely. it was a very vague statement. I'm guessing many game states fall into this category. < 1325872396 853673 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1325872404 546940 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not all. it again dependends on how you calculate frequency of an entire game state < 1325872412 568418 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know how to do that or if it's necessarily possible. < 1325872414 249058 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hummm < 1325872439 153163 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess these sorts of problems become simpler when actually testing the thing in practice, instead of theorizing < 1325872439 470916 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it would help if I knew more about Fourier transforms. < 1325872443 122450 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, I was just going to point out that for example microwave control circuits from what I remember run at much higher frequencies than computers do < 1325872470 253519 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well I didn't mean "any data" < 1325872483 264634 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, and iirc there was some sort of carbon transistor that could switch at 100 GHz < 1325872490 437591 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is pretty impressive < 1325872511 114152 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :we should design a carbon transistor processor and make it affordable to the masses. < 1325872545 613906 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, if it works out in the end I guess that will happen, probably won't give you a 100 GHz CPU, there are many overheads < 1325872555 295829 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1325872559 84633 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what i am talking about seems to be a continuous board "racetrack" where the objective is to crash into the opponent < 1325872580 288123 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: I would say you want a time limit < 1325872581 914219 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :to a turn < 1325872593 841884 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :to maintain sanity. < 1325872603 253230 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :racetrack adopts the idea that no other pieces move during a turn < 1325872618 780122 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's like... < 1325872621 518740 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :a non-real-time game? < 1325872626 147734 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah :) < 1325872642 703950 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my goal is turnbased on a continuous board < 1325872658 749583 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway turnbased asteroids could be interesting if you have precise control over what you can do per turn < 1325872676 293886 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :like applying this much force in this direction, or aim and fire < 1325872710 254625 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i need to study the racetrack rules a bit closer < 1325872778 227374 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, what about 3D chess? < 1325872780 769228 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm one nice thing about Haskell is I'll be able to take advantage of its excellent concurrency support when I actually write the server code that hosts games. < 1325872786 407756 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: what about it? < 1325872789 372865 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Continuous boards sound like a recipe for endless squabbling about how you *would* have won except the unfair floating-point imperfections of your implementation kept favouring the opponent. (Unless of course you're going to analytically solve everything.) < 1325872792 380518 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, it could be interesting < 1325872793 654137 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty sure that already is a thing. < 1325872814 584202 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't they play 3D chess in Star Trek?-) < 1325872829 603661 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.chessvariants.com/3d.dir/startrek.html -- apparently. < 1325872848 286302 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, 4 players, two like usual, the other two on the "ceiling" < 1325872865 139157 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes that could be interesting < 1325872874 217795 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, would require 8x8x8 < 1325872874 868772 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 or more player variants are always interesting < 1325872924 635991 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course if I'm making a whole portal chess server with web-based and desktop clients I'll need a website too < 1325872930 945855 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-154-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Star Trek 3D chess is more chess on a very strange 2D board. < 1325872932 97096 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Welcome the international hub of portal chess gaming!" < 1325872939 984143 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, heh < 1325872940 459851 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :my website will be so good. < 1325872945 977299 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :missing words everywhere < 1325872954 574766 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's got that movable-level thing going on. < 1325872989 304966 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-154-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right, movable levels. < 1325872996 9713 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be interesting to play a game of chess where you have two boards, with two different starting configurations < 1325872997 280347 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-154-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, I suppose you could call it 3D barely. < 1325873005 295657 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and each piece on one board is connect to a piece on the other board < 1325873015 293433 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about 4D chess? < 1325873017 875133 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I think the handwavey justification for those would be that they represent starships. < 1325873021 370950 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that moving one requires you to move the other according to rules (possibly they're the same piece but you could have them do different things) < 1325873035 670182 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-154-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I suppose. < 1325873071 12379 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and capturing a piece on one board "frees" the piece on the other board. < 1325873076 690677 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :creating an interesting strategic element. < 1325873104 300150 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :where capturing an opponent piece can actually make the pieces on the other board more dangerous. < 1325873124 225396 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :....basically I should just make chess variants all day. < 1325873126 803057 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and get paid to do it. < 1325873129 740963 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, I fear it might end up being very annoying to play < 1325873135 654958 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: perhaps < 1325873138 340418 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends on the specific mechanics. < 1325873142 580983 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1325873153 694629 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also winning conditions are uncertain < 1325873167 625631 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could be either winning on one board wins the whole game or you have to win both games < 1325873176 580261 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a draw being both players win one game < 1325873198 322304 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is plausible if one player focuses on their success on one board, to the detriment of the other board. < 1325873206 870764 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :gradually freeing all of their pieces < 1325873214 14843 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that it just becomes two mostly seperate games of chess < 1325873227 593782 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or well, whatever this chess variant is called. < 1325873297 695514 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is more interested in games that have a complex but elegant set of rules, rather than wacky variants. < 1325873358 444086 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: a solution i have is that you can make a continuous move by rolling a [0; a,b,c] continued function on a dice and stop rolling on some number on that dice < 1325873364 635150 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, I'm quite a fan of RPGs myself. I wonder if you could make some sort of chess-inspired RPG < 1325873373 881044 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :chess with sidequests sounds too weird so hm < 1325873383 799335 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I do like your suggestion that bidirectional loops change direction once per turn because it's an interesting gameplay element, I'm just not sure that it can be used strategically or if it's mostly an element of luck and circumstance. < 1325873403 697801 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if stop rolling on a "1" then.. dicerolls 2 6 4 6 5 1 results in [0; 2,6,4,6,5] < 1325873405 6882 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, you would have to time your turn to the loop to take advantage of it < 1325873405 364391 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well I have some ideas for a real-time-strategy RPG < 1325873419 526018 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, not sure how common such loops are anyway < 1325873419 685319 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just learned about continued functions a few hours ago < 1325873509 489741 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I feel like it's going to be one of those rules that results in unintended metagameplay, which arose as a natral consequence of other rules. < 1325873522 522377 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, hm? < 1325873524 641979 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and was originally seen as a very specific rare circumstance. < 1325873541 921657 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, because even now I can think of many possible uses. < 1325873549 297687 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :just not sure how it fits into the game. < 1325873557 849472 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, Nothing wrong with metagaming, it is kind of common in competitive computer games anyway. < 1325873589 73805 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: a difficult thing is that most games depend on the fact there are no perfect players < 1325873590 383374 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the game itself will be very glass cannony. like playing out WW3 on a chess board. both players basically have nukes and want to kill each other. now what happens? < 1325873618 69781 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, lots of explosions yay! < 1325873624 736181 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its something i think about a lot < 1325873648 51099 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no perfect life though, or is there.. i guess one can ask the indians < 1325873655 812389 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, a lot of computer games depend on timing to ensure that < 1325873685 222201 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't time perfectly usually < 1325873690 335517 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :chess is interesting in that even by cheating you can't be a perfect player < 1325873703 519121 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: American Indians were not a perfect society living idyllic lives. kthx < 1325873706 484780 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, are you sure there is no perfect play in chess? < 1325873713 504246 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no perfect player < 1325873719 853476 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not no perfect play < 1325873732 475701 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to be a player, one must actually play :D < 1325873744 100245 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, well computers can easily beat humans < 1325873751 585128 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so some hermit in a cave who knows perfect chess but never plays anyone doesn't count < 1325873759 669378 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh < 1325873764 974633 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: cheating usually isn't regarded in defining a "perfect game" :P < 1325873765 133287 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :who said anything about such a guy? < 1325873789 641003 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for my definition of player, it is not enough to have the potential to play.. the playing must be actual < 1325873798 77497 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes and? < 1325873806 854760 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see your point here < 1325873824 955503 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :chess probably does have perfect play, just no one figured it out yet < 1325873838 579111 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i agree chess has perfect play < 1325873842 282271 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: anyway I was thinking of a game that is partially inspired by magicka, and also partially inspired by real time strategy, but not really having much in common with them... < 1325873842 600869 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it has no perfect players < 1325873861 83466 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, as of yet. Computers aren't powerful enough and the chess AIs not got enough. Yet. < 1325873876 881011 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if you are willing to cheat... even if you turn every resource to the task < 1325873878 70827 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you would start off as a single adventurer, and gradually gather a party. the interface is RTS style. you click on people and issue orders and use hotkeys to cast abilities. < 1325873888 313759 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you cannot play in the capacity of a perfect chess player < 1325873893 314721 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at this stage :D < 1325873897 944221 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, cheating doesn't make sense in chess, what would it be? Moving two pieces in a turn? < 1325873898 103313 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: also I was considering perhaps having a system of automation, like Dragon Age. < 1325873911 393969 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :look.. umm.. < 1325873915 977891 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, never played that game < 1325873922 245157 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even IF both players talked about what move each player intended to make next < 1325873933 677890 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: cheating defines what the game is. when you permit cheating you're talking about a different game entirely. < 1325873936 220832 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhmm.. no that doesnt make sense < 1325873939 273279 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*redefines < 1325873949 53614 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh then it is easy to solve, if you actually know what a player will do in a given situation < 1325873957 948560 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm .... < 1325873959 300498 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can just recursively apply that until you find a good one < 1325873962 526603 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is? < 1325873980 756739 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok i guess it is :D < 1325873983 200324 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it isn't restricted to next turn but can be applied to hypothetical future turns < 1325873996 687895 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you basically have a perfect "heuristic" < 1325874012 77205 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well.. this is headache material for me.. < 1325874016 640665 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and can just search down the tree of moves to figure out a variant where you wins < 1325874022 558801 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I don't know I have a feeling that chess has too many divergent possibilities for a set of rules in response to the opponent's moves that results in a guaranteed victory. < 1325874059 247963 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, hm? < 1325874064 947220 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :....nevermind. :P < 1325874083 924348 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ok suppose that 1 player would tell his next move.. and the other one would not do so < 1325874096 250305 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric : now he will only tell his next move :D < 1325874102 168036 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, I wrote a rather good AI for othello once for an university assignment. It easily beat all humans I tried it on < 1325874119 645703 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean player A will say "if i do this what will you do?" and player B will say, i will do such and such < 1325874119 962239 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, and that just looked ahead 7 moves in searching for good positions < 1325874131 576436 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then player B does such and such < 1325874132 845374 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, used alpha-beta pruning < 1325874143 661480 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then it is player A's turn again.. and cycle repeats < 1325874153 789195 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :can player B beat player A? :D < 1325874164 144120 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :curious idea, eh < 1325874199 608099 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but....... < 1325874204 807736 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, that is just doing that algorithm to the depth 1. I assumed you mean that once player B replied what he would do then A would ask "and what if I then did this" and B would answer and so on < 1325874206 398144 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :his "what will you do?" only counts for 1 turn < 1325874210 247725 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :with no limit of depth < 1325874220 721553 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :then B can't beat A unless B can pull off perfect play < 1325874222 509869 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah.. i wasnt sure at first... < 1325874236 177068 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which might be possible) < 1325874238 380361 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i decided the latter question is more interesting < 1325874245 34887 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: also regarding magic I was going to make effective use of magic much more challenging than in other games. < 1325874250 331308 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think this is where the magicka influence stems from. < 1325874260 971909 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but instead of in an action-adventure game it's an RPG-like RTS. < 1325874275 827123 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, and sure B can beat A. You need a greater depth in searching for solutions. Even human chess players look ahead a few turns < 1325874281 366666 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, good ones at least) < 1325874295 183122 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, omg.... chess with magicka style magic! < 1325874299 570931 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, epic win < 1325874312 278354 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: another curious question is.. whether such a system would negatively affect player A's chances of winning < 1325874340 37684 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, very good when you don't have much time. Someone will die very soon < 1325874345 756932 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :through the distraction of knowing his moves < 1325874351 97566 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, I predict game length will be a few minutes at most < 1325874357 749966 :iamcal!u1110@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zrhmfnfvskqbtrxt QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1325874376 257846 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, just imagine crossing opposite beams on top of the opposing king. < 1325874379 123624 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1325874391 192652 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :most magical abilities would take the form of a) very slow casts with powerful effects and high cost b) very slow casts with moderate effects and moderate costs c) fast weak effects with moderate cost d) fast moderate effects with high cost e) fast powerful effects with incredibly high cost leaving you completely vulnerable < 1325874408 810613 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I have no idea how such a game would work < 1325874420 914560 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, neither do I, but it sounds awesome < 1325874435 973452 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, doubtful. I'm not really good at psychology. < 1325874439 830472 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so who knows < 1325874454 317918 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, if player A is a grand master, and player A and B are both using the most powerful computing resources available, and reasonably unbounded turn times.. and player B is giving player A his next turn < 1325874466 101274 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would wonder what sort of game would come out of it < 1325874476 344755 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe both should be grandmasters im not sure :-s < 1325874488 915244 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so then the key ideas of effective magic use involve a) picking the best spell for the best situation b) ensuring you have enough time to cast it because taking damage quickly interrupts you c) ensuring you have enough magical resources in the long-term < 1325874505 297707 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the powerful, fast, costly spells would be a last-ditch effort when you fuck up. < 1325874515 579115 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 JOIN :#esoteric < 1325874525 382433 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, heh < 1325874529 710264 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am curious of what length of time would be useful for a computer in chess... < 1325874546 322478 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, so completely unlike the magic of magicka then < 1325874547 593351 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and is there a cutoff period where a computer is no longer able to efficiently use time to play chess < 1325874576 109548 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like if you give a computer a year to make a move < 1325874577 101880 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I was considering various complex magic models that would be magicka-esque, but yes... not directly like it at all. < 1325874585 305267 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :will it just sit there twiddling its thumbs < 1325874608 866192 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, sounds fairly like magic in trading card games from what I seen of them (I watched an LP, never played them myself) < 1325874624 293093 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: well assuming it's using a decision tree it will eventually run out of possibilities or hit its cutoff point. < 1325874624 449759 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, to some degree < 1325874627 265992 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not so much the cost thing < 1325874632 594040 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is just adding mana though < 1325874636 900399 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I know nothing about that game. < 1325874647 294520 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, trading card games is a genre < 1325874651 278417 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, not a specific game < 1325874655 408527 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was considering breaking away from the traditional mana concept and having different kinds of resources < 1325874657 194470 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, like magic the gathering and such < 1325874672 505296 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: that's what I assumed you were talking about. < 1325874675 997162 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a huge fan of them myself < 1325874676 474790 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder then, if there is a specific length of time where current chess computing of a move is useless after it < 1325874699 113421 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially the business model of the companies making them pisses me off < 1325874709 670530 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it also resembles magic in WoW based on the abstract concept I provided with cast time vs. power output vs. cost. but I want the decision to be much more important than it is in WoW < 1325874731 302929 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, iirc WoW copied from some other earlier MMO < 1325874733 566778 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :good timing should be greatly rewarded, and poor execution should be punished. but you should also have a number of failsafes you can rely on when you fuck up. < 1325874737 535545 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :never played WoW myself < 1325874737 694634 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: everquest < 1325874740 77403 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1325874740 870454 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1325874768 532879 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in other words, i wonder what is currently the longest useful chess computation < 1325874782 227452 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've always been interested in magic that involves elements in your environment. < 1325874783 497053 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, I watched some videos of SWTOR, and my god does the combat look horrible. From what I heard the WoW combat works pretty much the same way, but less polished < 1325874784 173873 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it merely a question of searching an existing data set? < 1325874803 888948 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I didn't play WoW because it looks good. < 1325874809 572712 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, hotkey combat just looks so utterly boring. Mindless buttonmashing. < 1325874813 125537 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm more interested in mechanics. WoW has pretty polished mechanics. < 1325874850 737300 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes it gets dull. < 1325874853 439002 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, and from what I heard the SWTOR mechanics are indeed pretty similar. Took some ideas from other MMOs as well < 1325874893 149404 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmo's.. the worst thing to ever happen to the internet :-" < 1325874896 46206 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :WoW has had a lot of time to take form. < 1325874900 627517 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, anyway at least SWTOR seems to have a good story, which I heard was pretty bad in WoW < 1325874905 920244 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i havent played any i admit < 1325874908 30578 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes there is no story basically. < 1325874910 769145 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no one cares about the story. < 1325874919 69221 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, I think MMOs could be good, just not hotkey ones < 1325874938 149296 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: planetside had a lot of potential < 1325874940 969380 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the last 12 years of gaming is "could be good but isnt" < 1325874941 446890 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they're making a sequel? < 1325874961 493744 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: dunno I think gaming has developed pretty well in a very short time. Sure it's not perfect. < 1325874970 117872 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, no idea, I don't really keep track of MMOs. < 1325874980 512575 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Planetside is/was an MMO FPS < 1325874993 447635 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, problem is that there are scalability issues with more interesting form of combats < 1325874997 4126 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tidus must remind you that gaming is not a synonym for 3d rendering < 1325874999 117435 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, like, lag issues < 1325875006 328673 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, hotkey mmo is a way to work around those < 1325875006 806143 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I say "is" because it still exists and I say "was" because its userbase is mostly dead. < 1325875012 690004 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :though things are moving away from hotkey < 1325875017 578246 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :better connections and so on < 1325875028 242120 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the main causes of lag? < 1325875037 213022 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, latency < 1325875045 902184 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are of course computing issues as well < 1325875052 336794 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but latency is the real problem here < 1325875053 694813 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are the main causes of latency? < 1325875059 292581 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: but it was basically a neverending game of base-capturing spread out across multiple planets. you could get dropped into warzones pretty quickly and there were a lot of cool multi-person vehicles. < 1325875067 172573 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :there were 3 factions < 1325875080 485478 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know these questions are getting repetitive from me < 1325875097 363223 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :leading up to, what can be done by gamers about latency < 1325875099 306732 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, I'm trying to remember < 1325875102 944296 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I read this at university < 1325875113 813957 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is of course propagation delay for the signal < 1325875116 100484 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a few algorithms < 1325875117 132193 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :then there is routing time < 1325875121 761917 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a few more factors < 1325875127 45710 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was some nifty equation for it < 1325875134 772229 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it due to the dimorphism between download speeds and upload speeds? < 1325875134 930678 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :completely forgot it < 1325875137 789718 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :one algorithm is to basically predict what will happen based on previous input < 1325875140 721109 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, no < 1325875159 426180 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, for an MMO the issue is network latency < 1325875162 160656 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://mine-control.com/zack/timesync/timesync.html < 1325875166 141534 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes this is what I'm talking about < 1325875170 156801 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :combating latency < 1325875185 866968 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, well you can't. There is always at least the propagation delay < 1325875193 14693 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :....yes < 1325875194 959331 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you have a wormhole, nothing you can do < 1325875195 753248 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1325875200 713624 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not suggesting you can apply an algorithm that eliminates latency < 1325875205 614053 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is obviously ridiculous. < 1325875229 975748 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well.. is latency not the same thing as connection speed? < 1325875241 740614 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, connection speed is ill-defined < 1325875258 578931 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, anyway if one guy jumps sideways while another guy shoot him, they see different scenarios. Who is correct? < 1325875262 907596 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is to say, people used to play games on 56k modems :P < 1325875264 913133 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: latency is basically the time between send and receive < 1325875271 783523 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, either way one guy is going to be pissed off < 1325875298 914145 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and now even though you can download gigabytes from powerful servers at > 2mb/s < 1325875305 861358 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :latency is still a problem < 1325875341 781971 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: dead reckoning combats this slightly by using previous inputs to predict what is about to happen, this causes the discrepancy to be a little less extreme. < 1325875354 161339 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the algorithm is good at prediction that is < 1325875367 472385 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, there is latency and there is bandwidth. Latency is the time it takes for any data to reach the other end. Bandwidth is how much data you can send. Think about a car fast car and a slow truck. The fast car can't carry as much but will reach the destination quicker < 1325875380 360203 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :for an FPS this is pretty difficult to accomplish. < 1325875389 203855 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, problem is that you can't easily predict future inputs of a human < 1325875404 578011 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't predict when someone is going to shoot. you can however predict that they're going to continue holding down automatic fire if they were already doing so. < 1325875423 240919 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, not having ranged weapons would help, though not completely. < 1325875428 943473 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: thats pretty difficult to comprehend that latency is independant of bandwidth < 1325875436 993752 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its a royal headfuck < 1325875446 411933 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, not really < 1325875448 477455 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: bandwidth concerns how much data you can receive at any given point < 1325875455 893570 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: latency is how long it takes for data to get to you. < 1325875458 274767 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or to be sent from you < 1325875458 910048 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1325875491 20653 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: you could be sending gigabytes of data per second but it still takes 5 seconds to be received. < 1325875491 338855 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, what about this: fill a truck with harddrives with data. You will have a HUGE latency but the bandwidth will be enormous. < 1325875499 115624 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but.. why wouldn't the latency be uniform? < 1325875511 54194 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, well that is easy, internet is best-effort < 1325875518 807203 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is why we need tcp < 1325875523 933717 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :to resend dropped packets and so on < 1325875526 160397 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so bandwidth is easier to achieve than latency? < 1325875534 57207 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: conversely, you could be receiving a single byte per second but it's received a nanosecond later. < 1325875535 169923 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really that is best-effort too < 1325875550 377987 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well.. people care more about latency than bandwidth i assume < 1325875559 807378 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, gamers usually do yes < 1325875562 69065 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. no they don't ;_; who am i kidding < 1325875571 791292 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :then again, a lot of people care more about bandwidth than latency < 1325875573 482851 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the internet is geared up for pro-bandwidth < 1325875581 112800 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: of course there's a point where the bandwidth becomes so small that the net effect is a perceived latency, as it takes long to receive the entire packet. this is most obviously when your bandwidth completely drops to zero (aka you disconnect) < 1325875600 827032 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, anyway there are other users on the internet, that causes the available resources to vary. Your packet might end up waiting in the input queue of a router a bit longer one time than for the next packet for example < 1325875612 367153 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would cause latency < 1325875632 491103 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so.. the question here then is... could an internet be designed pro latency? < 1325875636 836097 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at the cost of bandwidth? < 1325875648 770082 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure that tradeoff exists < 1325875667 77702 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure there might be minor tweaks you could make, but nothing major I suspect < 1325875675 700111 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're certainly connected to each other but they're not directly or inversely proportional. < 1325875692 882811 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :bandwidth can be a bottleneck to latency. < 1325875707 60585 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and vice versa, I'd imagine. < 1325875733 846858 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, anyway there are lots of things that need bandwidth: downloading updates for your OS. Doesn't matter if it takes 1 or 2 seconds for the first bit of those to arrive from when you request them < 1325875759 637465 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :sending emails isn't very sensitive either way. < 1325875795 683000 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont understand why sending a large fille is different from sending lots of state updates < 1325875803 112956 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: intuitively you could think of bandwidth as the size of the pipe, and the inverse of latency is how fast the data is being pumping on average. < 1325875814 57746 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it like.. saying.. you can have large updates but you can't have a lot of them? < 1325875820 204867 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, intertubes :D < 1325875823 262657 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1325875853 567036 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: if you have a very small pipe and you're sending a lot of data, it's going to take longer for that data to arrive. < 1325875861 806418 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1325875863 280086 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PART :#esoteric < 1325875867 888151 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, not at all. The thing with a large file is that there is still latency. It is just that the time it takes to transfer the whole file is much larger than the latency < 1325875886 705024 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you don't really care < 1325875904 625458 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well there are some complications here, mostly due to TCP ACKs and so on) < 1325875935 50138 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(lets not dwell on those, I'm just pointing out I know about them if anyone (real elliott) is going to talk about them when log reading) < 1325875939 846701 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically the latency still slows the transfer but it's not very much. it's a product where the latency is a very very small quantity compared to the total file size. < 1325875945 202403 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(read*) < 1325875965 26749 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok well.. what if i pretended to send a file, but i was secretly sending a stream of my actions in an mmo >:-) < 1325875975 481637 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :then... < 1325875978 89016 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :....? < 1325875979 644669 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay. < 1325875982 71315 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, interestingly ssh file copy has/had problems on high-bw, high-latency links < 1325875992 427155 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, there was/is even a patch set to fix that < 1325876000 354061 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it that the sending will be broken up sporadically < 1325876020 920812 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes that's the latency < 1325876024 296385 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :for any transfer of data. < 1325876025 884973 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that exists. < 1325876027 238413 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, basically it sends rather small packets thus the latency ends up being an issue due to the time it takes for TCP ACK < 1325876039 317655 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: aha < 1325876055 539863 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, here: http://www.psc.edu/networking/projects/hpn-ssh/ < 1325876060 540488 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes the pipe analogy kind of breaks down when you actually start to talk about discrete packets. < 1325876077 306035 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than a continuous "fluid" < 1325876083 146504 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, it kind of works for UDP still < 1325876087 629995 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not just for TCP < 1325876103 859399 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, and I have no clue if it works for SCTP and so on < 1325876113 987237 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :my guess would be "sometimes" < 1325876150 958097 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(SCTP is a newer protocol that fixes several shortcommings in TCP and UDP, however it is not widely adopted yet, and might never be. Kind of cool though) < 1325876166 605400 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, if you were to try calculus on a connection speed.. the gamers ideal is that at each sampling of the speed it would be above some minimum threshold < 1325876181 607585 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, anyway kind of curious it works better for UDP than TCP... since TCP is closer to being a stream actually < 1325876185 373211 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the movie downloader's ideal is that the sum of the samples is the highest < 1325876215 202838 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, what do you mean with connection speed? < 1325876221 613143 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, latency or bandwidth < 1325876227 68751 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: well essentially latency becomes more of an issue when you're sending small packets. such as game state commands. < 1325876229 290560 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no such thing as speed < 1325876237 348194 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well forget the word calculus < 1325876255 848873 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :suppose i chose some sampling rate of 100 times per second to see how much new data has arrived sinced last sample < 1325876280 288718 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe 100 times is asking a lot < 1325876284 639364 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but for fun < 1325876295 199008 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that measures bandwidth < 1325876299 325050 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1325876314 561303 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't make sense on anything else than a download anyway < 1325876322 614793 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: in a game latency is more important because time synchronization is important. it's not a one-way dataflow. the game state of clients is depending on small bits of data that it hasn't received yet. < 1325876323 725803 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or upload of course) < 1325876335 116082 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: consequently, the player is sending packets in response to an incorrect game state < 1325876343 540127 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: so this fine-grained time synchronization issues become more important < 1325876359 170465 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :latency would seem to cause samples where no new data has arrived < 1325876381 895346 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh? < 1325876396 59349 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohhh ... no i think i am getting it slowly < 1325876407 134356 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: also it's not a large amount of data per second. so bandwidth isn't very important beyond a bare minimum. < 1325876446 863779 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lets say.. all we want to send is 1 byte every 60th of a second < 1325876461 980074 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so bandwidth is not our problem in this scenario < 1325876465 194157 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :conversely downloading is a one-way stream with large amounts of data. the latency of each packet isn't very relevant or noticeable (unless your latency is extreme), but the bandwidth is, because it creates a cap on how much data you can receive per second. < 1325876485 58889 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops uhh ill extend it < 1325876495 863296 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lets say.. all we want to send is 1 byte every 60th of a second, and recieve 1 byte every 60th of a second < 1325876499 288163 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know this is asking a lot < 1325876507 550187 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but just for the sake of an example < 1325876530 138299 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, no what you want to send is 1 byte in response to an event at an unknown time to notify the other end that it happened < 1325876543 24185 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :you want that to arrive as fast as possible < 1325876587 368848 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess what i am wondering here is if there is a hardware issue in latency or just dumb programmers < 1325876611 202751 :DCliche!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325876640 560552 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, generally it is out of the hands of the game developer in question. You can do various tricks to try to hide it. Like assume if someone was moving in the last update they will continue moving in the same direction < 1325876642 24727 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i always seem to say "our topic was just X, but now i realize i wanted to think about Y" < 1325876647 268496 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do this ad nauseum.. < 1325876663 512722 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, there are some physical limitations, like the speed of light, and there are various issues in the hardware of the internet, routers and so on < 1325876664 307887 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because its just how i fucking think .. shameful as it is < 1325876690 674230 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I'd like to think more sophisticated predictions are possible if you apply some hueristics on a large input buffer. < 1325876705 331567 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, certainly, that was just a basic example < 1325876708 34790 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't know what those heuristics are. < 1325876717 215910 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, neither do I. < 1325876735 732147 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, an obvious one is "if jumping they will fall down rather than continue upwards" :P < 1325876751 883034 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: hi you know things about statistics how can you make predictions about future inputs from previous inputs. < 1325876783 78897 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have heard of that side of things < 1325876783 396400 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, for the purpose here it is enough to point out various methods exist < 1325876790 754486 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ah well the prediction only needs to be on the input stream not on each physics tick. < 1325876792 975243 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, anyway nothing wrong with going off on tangets < 1325876798 59326 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, I do it all the time < 1325876801 436424 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i am wondering if there is problems in the actual internet which cause latency < 1325876810 841260 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which gamers could pay people to fix < 1325876829 395722 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :doubtful. There isn't really a good solution anyway < 1325876829 556272 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1325876832 455458 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes the problem is that other people are using it < 1325876840 543226 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if they paid a bunch of people to not use the internet for a while < 1325876842 668005 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :they could fix it. < 1325876866 398493 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the internet is effectively being spammed with junk traffic < 1325876876 509318 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is.. lets face it < 1325876877 898162 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes such as this IRC channel. < 1325876899 923412 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ha ha ha) < 1325876912 788315 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :the internet was a success because of the design of it. It is packet based rather than connection-oriented. You just send a packet and hope for the best. Then there is TCP on top which will resend packets if it didn't get an acknowledgement (of course acknowledgement might get lost too) < 1325876949 221452 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the idea of using screenshot sending to provide games seems to me a vast waste of the internet < 1325876960 135828 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean OnLive? < 1325876966 46872 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat? < 1325876967 157166 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its very tragic waste of the net < 1325876971 205851 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah OnLive < 1325876997 215989 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1325877010 514999 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess latency matters less there < 1325877022 411179 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, the game runs on a server, it sends a compressed stream to the client. An interesting idea. And from what I heard it works surprisingly well. Well enough for games like racing games, not well enough yet for games like high-precision FPS < 1325877035 813443 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, latency matters a lot there < 1325877051 84409 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh... < 1325877054 578524 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, more so than usual < 1325877067 214369 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, when you press a button there is a delay until the server gets it and a delay until you see the result < 1325877069 597716 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1325877074 618805 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, you definitely want to keep those delays down < 1325877098 543304 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well the positive thing is that the renderer doesn't have to make any predictions < 1325877104 622984 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :since the game state is localized < 1325877118 465770 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :a drawback is that the service /can't/ make predictions.. < 1325877121 231221 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, OnLive both needs low latency and high bandwidth (though they use some custom compression, so they get away with like 2 Mbps iirc) < 1325877121 387529 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the game state < 1325877132 677599 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or was it MBps? I don't remember) < 1325877141 525422 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, indeed < 1325877155 180803 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a racing game this would give vast improvements < 1325877162 91225 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :a racing game would be pretty easy to apply predictions to < 1325877171 124309 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a few milliseconds at a time. < 1325877176 296479 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1325877177 509812 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-154-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: 2 Mbps isn't that unreasonable... < 1325877185 276622 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, fair enough < 1325877188 749481 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-154-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can pull that off with x264 and some tweaking. < 1325877193 224957 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: so the player might feel their controls lag, and their video lags, but at least the screenshots will always reflect the true gamestate :D < 1325877194 974004 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm okay < 1325877207 561616 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if the gamestate is "late" < 1325877230 594241 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-154-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'll want higher than that to get higher resolution, but still, streaming video over the Internet is quite doable. < 1325877237 73484 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, anyway, latency is usually more than a few ms. More 20 ms to my ISP even < 1325877245 862770 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :More like* < 1325877272 436934 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: that's an acceptable range for a racing game. < 1325877279 698756 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say up to.... half a second would be okay in many cases. < 1325877283 454449 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, that is to my ISP. Not to, say, google < 1325877309 225044 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :traceroute is fucking up for me for some reason atm... hm < 1325877317 300579 :iamcal!u1110@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-glwffzytnduvznrn JOIN :#esoteric < 1325877318 570687 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-154-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The issue they'll have, of course, is bufferbloat. < 1325877321 182863 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :traceroute is very unreliable in my experience. < 1325877336 332069 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, it gets 5 jumps then "no reply" < 1325877339 867669 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :very strange < 1325877347 510021 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it usually works to google < 1325877355 352027 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-154-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :For stupid reasons a lot of hosts like to block ICMP. < 1325877356 27392 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, i think OnLive is exploitative use of the internet < 1325877373 261442 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, yes, lattency jitter is going to be a huge issue for OnLive < 1325877385 637708 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the people who made the internet would vomit that it is used this way < 1325877388 280406 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, not really. It is best effort. It is there for everyone to share. < 1325877405 26549 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-154-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: I disagree. However, it suffers from the major implementation flaws in the infrastructure. < 1325877413 478303 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-154-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such as "my downlink isn't 6 Gbps" < 1325877441 255264 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-154-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And "There's seconds of buffering, which breaks TCP flow control and is going to give us congestion collapse one of these days" < 1325877458 312177 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, that is for the uncompressed case. You are never going to get that. You would need like thousands of TBps at least for the backbone then < 1325877481 576901 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, surely all these constant 2mb/s connections onlive demands will overall cause more latency on the internet overall < 1325877492 974152 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, hm, OnLive breaks TCP flow control? < 1325877497 178621 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops @ repeating overall < 1325877498 803970 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I would have assumed they used UDP < 1325877508 910878 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-154-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No, bufferbloat does. < 1325877518 261565 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-154-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :OnLive merely suffers from it like the rest of us. < 1325877537 785086 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, bufferbloat where? In the routers? < 1325877547 775707 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-154-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: In basically every device. < 1325877548 887314 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: I'd bet that if you look at total network traffic on the internet that portion would be very small. < 1325877553 709672 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, hm true < 1325877569 161027 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, you need some buffers though, or the packet drops would get excessive < 1325877573 568868 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: you're basically hating on an internet service because it's using what the internet is for. < 1325877586 739979 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-154-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: If TCP flow control were functioning correctly, a flood of constant 2Mbps connections wouldn't increase latency notably. < 1325877596 939924 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-154-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You want packet drops. < 1325877610 206111 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, to some degree yes. But not so much it disconnects < 1325877610 682134 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-154-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: TCP flow control triggers on packet drops. < 1325877615 584802 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and indeed < 1325877621 738486 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate screen tearing and i hate latency... < 1325877665 332524 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-154-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: But, yes, you want a *small* amount of buffering. < 1325877668 68997 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :du hast < 1325877673 149378 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: forming negative opinions about things that also requires network resources that aren't the thing you're doing is not the way to go about that hatred. < 1325877676 519865 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, a few packets per input queue or such yes < 1325877690 916682 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: you must really hate Google. < 1325877698 869447 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure how much exactly, would need careful measurement < 1325877704 585312 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-154-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The appropriate buffer size, IIRC, is a function of the bandwidth-latency product. < 1325877713 641003 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes that sounds familiar < 1325877724 498370 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, are you saying that they are usually oversized? < 1325877741 280668 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-154-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: They are typically set as a few megabytes anymore. < 1325877756 183249 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, and what should they be? < 1325877756 663648 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't like knowing that after overworked teams spend millions of $ to create something, that the audience won't truely be able to enjoy it due to technicalities < 1325877768 809256 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, that might be reasonable on the backbone for all I know < 1325877771 555323 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-154-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: On common links? ~10 packets. < 1325877780 160670 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, what about the backbone then? < 1325877789 464219 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was that what you meant with common links? < 1325877791 92074 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: uh the teams don't spend that money themselves. they /receive/ that money. < 1325877796 990871 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-154-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I meant end-user links there. < 1325877802 849469 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: part of it < 1325877806 341263 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, okay so what about the backbone links then? < 1325877808 607392 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-154-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: On a backbone? Eh, maybe 100 packets? < 1325877812 627354 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm okay < 1325877822 324805 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :all the work comes second place to lag issues < 1325877835 844118 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_> < 1325877837 789133 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay. < 1325877853 468051 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, anyway there is always going to be lag you can't avoid due to the speed of light < 1325877858 845813 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lag is swept under the carpet < 1325877862 462260 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/lag/latency/ < 1325877868 100758 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-154-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Anyways. What we get now is when any given link is used to capacity, latency skyrockets up to about the size of the buffer in terms of time. < 1325877881 351207 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, ouch < 1325877886 622818 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, so why do people do it wrong? < 1325877903 448874 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-154-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because nobody knows better. < 1325877911 473937 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, also what about UDP? < 1325877915 165095 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :who are these people? what code is this? where is this implemented? < 1325877947 25188 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq seems to have the cynicism set in reality i was looking for < 1325877948 138114 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-154-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Some of the buffering is in networking device firmware, some of it in kernels. < 1325877968 201330 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1325878012 441141 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so buffering is the main (avoidable) cause of latency? < 1325878023 29048 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh... < 1325878038 753642 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or filled buffers? < 1325878052 504319 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-154-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: Basically. < 1325878053 654148 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :latency is mostly caused by scarcity of resources, I would think. < 1325878076 950522 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, anyway this wouldn't help at all with UDP < 1325878078 382454 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1325878087 55536 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: so to try and get an answer to my core enquiry < 1325878090 640000 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-154-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Most things streamed over UDP have manual flow control. < 1325878110 80692 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: what would a pro-minimal-latency internet do differently to the current internet? < 1325878110 397429 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-154-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Nope. TCP attempts to share bandwidth equally. < 1325878114 566425 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, which may be anything < 1325878141 460911 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-154-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: The only thing scarcity of resources should do to TCP streams is make them have less bandwidth available. < 1325878148 698993 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-154-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but at roughly the same latency) < 1325878177 301977 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-154-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Generally they're designed with the intent of behaving nicely with TCP flow control, though. < 1325878183 119356 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-154-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(unfortunately, not always) < 1325878190 824838 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1325878216 522107 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1325878220 793032 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1325878237 625156 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-154-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: Mostly, just have good buffer sizes in place (either via a nice buffer adjustment algorithm, or just setting them to something small that will be suboptimal in general but a hell of a lot better than what we have now) < 1325878296 495300 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-154-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: Beyond that, the Internet is actually fairly reasonable about latency. Something like half lightspeed latency... < 1325878347 986730 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if there was only 2 people using the internet at a time it would be damned fast eh? < 1325878383 89603 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :humm < 1325878390 276709 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-154-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or if there weren't seconds long buffers in between people. < 1325878454 64286 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, what are the usual buffer sizes in the backbone? < 1325878466 784304 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there any way that programmers can fight these buffers without occupying IETF and Cisco? < 1325878479 30107 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-154-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I honestly don't know; it's a bit hard to measure without cracking open the devices. < 1325878491 801650 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-154-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You can generally measure buffersize by congesting a link and measuring latency. < 1325878501 945966 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, kind of hard to do that with the backbone < 1325878512 674459 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-154-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: Start with end-user devices. They congest first, and thus are the first ones to show symptoms. < 1325878565 649796 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, hm does TCP resend the inidial SYN or is that up to the application? < 1325878579 405605 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :initial* < 1325878589 118066 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-154-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: Also, IETF and Cisco shouldn't be that hard to get to change; just hand them good AQM and voila. < 1325878599 399195 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, AQM? < 1325878619 335649 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :google says active queue management < 1325878627 291882 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1325878640 71319 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Internet routers, active queue management (AQM) is a technique that consists in dropping or ECN-marking packets before a router's queue is full. < 1325878647 696969 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, what about ECN? < 1325878650 435196 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1325878664 866523 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ECN seems like a workaround for too large buffers to me < 1325878692 974185 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-154-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ECN is actually *slightly* better than the drop-packet flow control. < 1325878704 320849 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm okay < 1325878704 797564 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-154-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It allows you to signal congestion *and* get data through. < 1325878709 704522 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1325878714 318483 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, so is it used much? < 1325878727 945660 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-154-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately, there's a bunch of intermediate devices that break it. < 1325878733 642423 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1325878742 672567 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :do those devices clear the bit or something? < 1325878758 772414 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-154-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or drop packets with the bit set. < 1325878773 289426 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, well they need to if their own queue is full < 1325878777 201344 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously < 1325878790 829693 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-154-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Drop packets with the "I can do ECN" bit set. < 1325878798 914161 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, what? why? < 1325878819 484450 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-154-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because some hardware manufacturers have less intelligence than the average monkey. < 1325878828 456197 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't make any sense < 1325878869 968711 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq is basically the truth behind my rant about latency... but i admit i didnt know any of this < 1325878890 807535 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what he is saying is what gamers should rally behind it seems < 1325878905 243173 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-154-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyways: most hosts support ECN but don't have it on by default. < 1325878906 35671 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and others too. Consider VOIP < 1325878915 698465 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :you want low latency < 1325878940 72433 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, really? Is it default to off in windows? Linux? < 1325878953 664080 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my priority though, is gaming... i guess not everyone will agree < 1325878959 465865 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-154-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Default to off in Windows, default to "only if the other end supports it" in Linux. < 1325878964 471147 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, why < 1325878970 100814 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :those are silly defaults < 1325878972 885261 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Search for "time series prediction", or some-such. There are too many methods. I would say in general mostly they boil down to either: (a) generate a "model" of the "system", learn the "parameters" and "current state" from past history, then run it forward and observe (fsvo of the quoted words); or (b) build a (statistical) model directly on the function "f(some amount of past) = some amount of future", and use (overlapping) pieces of the exis < 1325878973 44053 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ting history as (input, output) samples for learning it. < 1325878974 953012 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-154-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because of aforementioned broken devices. < 1325878997 704598 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like not everyone hates screen-tearing as much as me < 1325879001 914258 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, ah < 1325879016 149763 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, are those backbone devices or end user devices? < 1325879026 189709 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-154-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Mostly end user devices. < 1325879031 748108 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1325879052 640477 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-154-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's few manufacturers of backbone devices, and they tend to hire more knowledgable people. < 1325879074 51583 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, so linux only does it if it acts as a server I guess? Or can the server start the enabling of ECN? < 1325879172 15827 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-154-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Acting as a server, I think. < 1325879177 97934 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1325879186 473599 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should enable it and see what happens I guess < 1325879232 138410 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now that we all concede there is a solvable problem causing latency, i feel unburdened < 1325879240 685131 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-154-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The current way of mitigating bufferbloat on end user links is sickening, yet funny. < 1325879241 480029 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :... wow < 1325879248 942298 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, oh? < 1325879265 715417 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-154-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What you do is throttle your link to slightly less than max. < 1325879289 554802 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-154-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thus ensuring buffers near you can't fill. < 1325879291 658223 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1325879295 593093 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is absurd < 1325879352 577768 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-154-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. if you've got a 4Mbps link, throttle to, oh, 3.8 Mbps. < 1325879381 701700 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :does throttle here mean transmit data at that rate? < 1325879383 686034 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-154-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you will have low latency unless the backbone starts having congestive collapse. < 1325879396 395950 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: that description is so vague that it actually matches what I was thinking would work. < 1325879408 623519 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-154-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: Basically. < 1325879412 514910 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1325879432 917794 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably would work in countries with unlimited bandwidth < 1325879441 691362 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1325879447 790120 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-154-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: What you generally do is have your router (preferably one of those open firmwares) drop packets that would shove it above the set bandwidth. < 1325879472 273231 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used to do that "do Linux traffic shaping to slightly less than max bandwidth" thing when I lived in another place, because there all my SSH connections froze completely if I tried to download a file. < 1325879484 207624 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-154-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This basically prevents you from seeing bufferbloat in your router, your modem, the ISP's modem, or the ISP's router. < 1325879485 995933 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, heh. < 1325879495 599949 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: basically compile a bunch of frequency information on N past inputs, add weights and postprocessing and filtering as desired, and then go to town on the data. < 1325879513 323486 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-154-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'll still see bufferbloat in the ISP's network or the backbone, but this doesn't really happen much. < 1325879522 357220 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-154-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(end user links fall over *well* before those do) < 1325879528 107222 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: but frequency likely isn't the only interesting "parameter" to look at for this "model" of the "system" < 1325879540 699622 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-154-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Classic bufferbloat. < 1325879550 932946 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: since i didnt understand that, i will aska few questions to clarify < 1325879585 89159 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :does "pikhq> itidus21: What you generally do is have your router (preferably one of those open firmwares) drop packets that would shove it above the set bandwidth." involve transmitting as much data as possible? < 1325879591 120418 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-154-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: No. < 1325879594 928033 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1325879602 38125 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-154-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: It means never going *above* that speed. < 1325879636 280929 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, why not just use small buffers? < 1325879644 940258 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-154-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You artifically make that your maximum speed, rather than what your link theoretically could do. < 1325879653 395554 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-154-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Some of the buffers are out of your control. < 1325879658 238539 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I'd imagine with a game system it would be reasonable to scale more recent states. this covers the case where, if a player was last seen moving right, he is very likely to continue moving right. < 1325879658 555858 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm true < 1325879664 924989 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-154-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You can't realistically change the buffer on your modem. < 1325879678 171858 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, well my modem is also my router < 1325879684 369298 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-154-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you'll need to replace router firmware to change the router buffer. < 1325879734 161572 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: oh hmmm, but if you analyze a large history of past actions, you can possibly predict when they're going to stop spamming the same input, or what they may do next. < 1325879756 243701 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Well, you know; the (a) method typically tries to have the "model" actually represent the "system" somewhat, like if it has a structure, you'd try to model that; or if it's a physical thing, you'd do some physics; while the (b) method just picks a random "approximate a function based on data" method (say, neural nets, autoregressive models, support vector machines, whatever) and then just apply that to learn f(w_{t-4}, w_{t-3}, w_{t-2}, w_{t-1 < 1325879756 399902 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :}) = w_t, using ((w_1, w_2, w_3, w_4), w_5), (w_2, w_3, w_4, w_5), w_6), ... as the dataset; where w_t is the world at time t. < 1325879771 653194 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-154-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also a decent chance of there being a buffer ISP side. < 1325879787 915115 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :MARKOV PREDICTION. :P < 1325879793 9610 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is the obvious answer. < 1325879797 986351 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :markov can be applied to anything. < 1325879814 895436 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it *is* a Markov process in that case, since it's a finite amount of history. < 1325879823 493503 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :excellent. < 1325879833 826926 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Markov is awesome < 1325879882 197173 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: the (a) method sounds more relevant to a game < 1325879892 967425 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well hmmm < 1325879893 760626 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1325879895 32084 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, not really < 1325879900 790460 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(b) is more relevant to the human inputs < 1325879904 547726 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1325879905 499261 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a) is more relevant to the game system. < 1325879907 686525 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: this may sound dumb, but, what is the best way to determine max link speed? < 1325879974 796651 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am considering mentioning this theory to my brother who is always open to ways to improve his gaming < 1325879984 757647 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I don't even think modeling the game system is a statistical problem... since you know everything about how it works. < 1325879992 371868 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-154-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: One of those bandwidth testing sites... < 1325879997 416115 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're mostly concerned with analyzing the human input. < 1325880010 741126 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes. In that case you could try modeling the humans, and then just run the game to see what happens when they do things. < 1325880017 148778 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1325880025 1128 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, he is not going to be able to do anything about it < 1325880073 807961 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ah ok.. so what you mean is that there is some fixed limit for a connection, and a connection will try to go faster than it? < 1325880098 463465 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-154-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: Yes, because a connection will always try to go faster until packets drop. < 1325880105 668594 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-154-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And buffers prevent packets from dropping. < 1325880112 593919 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, and it should (modulo ECN) < 1325880124 512044 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-154-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1325880149 994244 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: thanks for the terminology I have so many things to read on Wikipedia now... < 1325880168 535203 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :In that case it might be slightly difficult to go very deep (a)-style; I mean, I guess you could try to guesstimate some "goals" or something that the humans are doing. But anyway there's of course overlap between (a) and (b); if you use, say, a clustering-related thing to learn the function in (b), it might be that what you're actually doing is learning (a)-meaningful clusters. (Everyone doing clustering is always pretending the clusters they get are s < 1325880168 691708 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :omehow meaningful.) < 1325880200 845179 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, they are? < 1325880235 820868 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: uh... modeling human behaviors sounds difficult. :P < 1325880239 93 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I found that it varies a lot < 1325880252 885850 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd rather just crunch some data and derive conclusions. :P < 1325880254 393698 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well, with sufficient amounts of exaggeration, anyway. < 1325880290 434412 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: but yes analyzing goals is something to keep in mind. < 1325880291 279080 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's just say that most people would at least like it if their clusters were somehow meaningful. < 1325880302 598927 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone doing visualization at least. :p < 1325880312 563809 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean by clusters. < 1325880317 467256 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I missed something. < 1325880321 104950 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, okay, anyone doing visualization that's not just doing it for aesthetical reasons. < 1325880329 487900 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well yes < 1325880379 50702 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: It was just an example for a statistical model; some of them divide (in a "soft" or "hard" way) all the samples into different clusters, and then use different models (or just sets of parameters) for each individual cluster. < 1325880475 955722 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I'm not sure if I explained what the purpose is. The idea is to predict what delayed inputs will be to minimize the bad visual feedback of latency. < 1325880491 671752 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure I didn't read that far back, just the single line that was red. < 1325880629 56822 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ideal situation would be that if an input was sent at X time, it could processed as though it occured at X time on the receiving end, meanwhile the game makes predictions of what that input would have been. < 1325880632 684746 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: so is there any common name for this link throttling, router setting which would have it drop packets that would shove it beyond set limit? < 1325880671 750846 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think perfect time sync will be easy or necessarily possible, but you can at least reduce the latency interval somewhat and still get reasonable results. Attempt to have perfect time sync would probably result in glitchy visual feedback. < 1325880683 614448 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*attempting < 1325880685 728369 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :My based-on-no-information-at-all guess about most network games (which I've understood do actually do that stuff) is that they use very simple methods for it. < 1325880700 924148 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yes I've been researching what is commonly used. < 1325880724 513575 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: one approach is called "dead reckoning" but I haven't really found an exact algorithm. it appears to vary widely. < 1325880747 60759 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-154-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: Probably something like "traffic shaping". < 1325880752 633861 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahh < 1325880763 23591 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-154-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: You'll probably want to do the same with uplink, BTW. < 1325880790 230020 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my brother is in charge of all that stuff.. but i think he would be interested to hear this idea < 1325880832 90082 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I think if you try to do perfect time sync you'll get unpleasant stutters in game continuity, but if you allow some latency you might be able to strike a balance between time synchronization and visual continuity. < 1325880896 822528 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(vague statement of what the solution should look like without actually going into any details of how to implement it) < 1325880944 358915 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i look forward to telling my brother about this.. < 1325880950 436622 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :((parenthetical aside noting the purpose of the previous statement)) < 1325880957 320910 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :he would go to any lengths to get better latency < 1325880999 946861 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: what idea? I'm sure someone has attempted some kind of sophisticated time sync algorithm before... < 1325881015 600000 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no i mean pikhq's link throttling idea < 1325881089 725663 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also you don't "get better latency" you're just making it slightly more fair. so that the time you activated an input actually matters, not when it was received. At the same time you're also trying to maintain visual continuity so that the game is visually consistent. < 1325881093 948608 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1325881095 855688 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :....nevermind < 1325881098 277909 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1325881126 658625 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe this new pipe I have is slightly worse in terms of latency than the old one. It's something like 12-15 ms to Finnish places; the old one used to do sub-10, unless I misremember. (DSL sure is one "delay-full subscriber line", anyway.) < 1325881146 651847 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i will go into your topic some time when this hardware one has left my brain < 1325881233 192326 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :im approaching that morning hours when i should be just waking up < 1325881270 764043 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even the modem statistics say there's a 6+1 (down+up) millisecond inherent delay on that less-than-a-hundred-metres link alone. Phone cabling from (in this case) the 1980s is such a silly way to send bits. < 1325881315 666144 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: you don't understand.. my brother called out the isp technicians like a dozen times to get their help before changing isps.. he lives for fast connections < 1325881328 956997 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not like ultra fast < 1325881335 36356 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like a... < 1325881336 505469 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does he, by any chance, play any network games? < 1325881337 856703 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pointless existence. < 1325881349 61028 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet he does. < 1325881359 116768 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just that most "ping hunters" I know are in "the business" mostly for that reason. < 1325881365 375402 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :WoW, LoL, HL2, SC2, BF2 uhmm < 1325881370 961245 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... yes. < 1325881371 476718 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i could go on < 1325881376 214208 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :=)) < 1325881388 716789 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops wait why did i list hl2 < 1325881400 844557 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i meant LFD2 < 1325881412 316654 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION would be interested to see statistics on how closely latency and game success are correlated on various online games.  < 1325881448 56242 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet in Battlefield 3 it would be more noticeable than in, say, SC2. < 1325881453 30129 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sc1, quake, quakewars, eve < 1325881464 609375 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"An experimental estimation of latency sensitivity in multiplayer Quake 3 -- [PDF] from psu.eduG Armitage - Networks, 2003. ICON2003. The 11th IEEE …, 2003 - ieeexplore.ieee.org" < 1325881477 292946 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :where latency and fast reflexes are still important but long-term effects of strategy and economy is much more important. < 1325881482 499121 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*are < 1325881591 966081 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so he is responsible for my connection.. so im happy with it < 1325881658 911078 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"How sensitive are online gamers to network quality?", Kuan-Ta Chen, Polly Huang, Chin-Laung Lei, Communications of the ACM, Vol. 49, No. 11, pages 34--38, lists 8 studies that have "sought to evaluate the effect of network quality on online gamers". < 1325881714 793349 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Both subjective ("oh god my ping was so high that last game") and objective (how many dudes they killed) measurements, apparently. < 1325881730 344607 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, now it's talking about marijuana. < 1325881732 627567 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Vint Cerf recommended that I start immediately blogging about bufferbloat a year or so ago, given the severity of the problem to avoid the usual publication" < 1325881741 956670 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: lol < 1325881752 615645 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: good study. < 1325881770 341338 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: "Psychologically, the pleasing sensation players experience in online games is analogous to being in the flow state after taking a mood-changing substance like marijuana." It's like they've just put this thing in, it's not like it's anyway connected to what's before or after it. < 1325881809 916974 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1325881817 699871 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :They don't even cite anyone. < 1325881825 289467 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bunch of potheads, is my guess. < 1325881827 88225 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep. < 1325881840 287232 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :metaphor-making pothead bastards. < 1325881956 16949 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@222.122.156.78 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hg.mearie.org/esotope/esotope/rev/baa33b474417 i've just got it working after 2 1/2 months of hiatus. < 1325881987 1209 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyhow, they have some statistics about how long people keep playing some mumorpuger I've never heard of ("Shen Zhou Online") depending on network quality; on average sessions last 4 hours when latency is <175 ms, and less than one hour when it's >225 ms. But they don't have any "how well they do" statistics in-between games. I'm sure someone's collected those too, though. < 1325882099 57172 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION would be more interested in data on Starcraft 2 since it's actually played professionally. < 1325882111 830903 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably at tournaments they have awesome network latency though. < 1325882143 872267 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's separate studies on Quake 3, UT2003, "Madden NFL Football" and "networked racing games", but based on titles I can't guesstimate if any of these cited studies have compared different (genres of) games for latency-sensitivity. < 1325882166 510532 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Many mid-range or high end home routers have traffic shaping features. They may be called traffic shaping, or QOS (Quality of Service). Some routers Ive seen (Ive seen quite a few over the last years) have a single knob to set bandwidth on both directions; they arent particularly useful. You want one which lets you adjust bandwidth in both directions. Ive experimented with several < 1325882166 828374 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric : routers: your mileage will vary. Some commercial routers work really well, some less so. Sometimes these routers are marketed as gamer routers. " < 1325882358 617160 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: the important thing is: can you turn the knobs up to 11? < 1325882376 399 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it goes around to 0 < 1325882381 295942 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a QOS feature on this VDSL2 box, but as far as I can tell it's pretty useless. It can be used to set some precedence queues if you wanted to, say, give priority to interactive stuff over bulk downloads, and set the DSCP IP header fields of outgoing stuff, which I'm sure will do absolutely nothing. < 1325882763 477409 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1325882990 895040 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1325883095 858764 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait a second. < 1325883100 712765 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm seeing a pattern here. < 1325883110 270945 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :everytime I ask myself "how would I write X in perl" < 1325883112 813276 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should instead ask < 1325883121 948737 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"what CPAN module already does X for me?" < 1325883141 281730 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://search.cpan.org/dist/Text-Levenshtein/Levenshtein.pm < 1325883144 437307 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, that was easy. < 1325883259 218321 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric : print distance("foo","four"); < 1325883259 411182 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric : # prints "2" < 1325883259 411375 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric : print fastdistance("foo","four"); < 1325883260 349246 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric : # prints "2" faster < 1325883265 895376 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...so what's the catch? < 1325883314 996653 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the catch is you would develop dependancy on cpan < 1325883321 170161 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly, older applications relied on the slowness of distance < 1325883328 679455 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would eventually come back to haunt you < 1325883329 879678 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just like old games that required a turbo button to play < 1325883356 674105 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Is faster in most cases" < 1325883362 302518 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what the worst-case stuff is like < 1325883373 552892 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which may be important when dealing with web-facing applications < 1325883373 749825 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the keyword of the problem turns out to be bufferbloat as pikhq said.. < 1325883378 511128 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I actually want WagnerFischer so I can configure weights. < 1325883395 403417 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the problem-mitigation is basically called QoS or traffic shaping < 1325883451 600880 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm but Wagner Fischer makes insert/delete equivalent < 1325883457 927644 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want delete to weigh more < 1325883554 686169 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is distance the number of steps to get from one string to the other? < 1325883576 30876 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1325883592 747365 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :with Wagner Fischer you can weigh different operations < 1325883596 797155 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have been in here too long then < 1325883672 418370 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :why's that? < 1325883711 232755 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :MAX [insert D between A and X] [insert D between D and X] [insert O between D and X] < 1325883800 651570 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1325883823 184218 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :MAX [shift A to the left of M] [shift X to the left of A] [insert H to the left of X] [insert E between H and X] [insert H between X and A] :P < 1325883871 17454 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know i am using fairly large operations < 1325883886 137012 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :..... < 1325883924 557824 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1325883945 821614 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and MAX [replace X with T] [insert H after T] < 1325884016 414798 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1325884140 219727 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Levenshtein distance is the ur-example they always trot out when explaining the "dynamic programming" thing. < 1325884169 75930 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm? < 1325884190 584973 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1325884200 586158 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can compute it with a dynamic programming thing; just table the Levenshtein distances between all prefixes. < 1325884290 300319 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :distance("windows", name); .. not sure about syntax of name.. is a function call that can be used to create a hierarchy < 1325884371 918106 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :could be a fun gimmicky website... compare the distance between lovers names < 1325884387 804451 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1325884428 116762 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: So how's your budding relationship with that "lax" person going? < 1325884440 273564 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1325884476 71054 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or.. it could be used for baby name generation! < 1325884481 989452 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Compared Levenshtein distances yet? < 1325884527 972062 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you take the mothers name and the fathers name, and find the name closest to the middle operation < 1325884672 766039 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :see.. im an applications guy < 1325884677 395109 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hazards a calculation that the distance is 8 < 1325884696 398517 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can think up uses for things but not build them < 1325884708 411044 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Oh no! Or, wait, is that a good score? I don't know at all. < 1325884785 932054 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm wait < 1325884788 108553 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also isn't it just 4 deletions and 2 substitutions? < 1325884793 636155 :Jafet1!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1325884832 777167 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i somehow considered only deletions and insertions < 1325884846 792726 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :a hazardous calculation indeed < 1325884848 63758 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :16:57:37: elliott: this Vector will, in all likelihood, remain at 0 to 2 elements. < 1325884848 220432 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :16:57:44: I could just as easily use a linked list. < 1325884848 220632 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :16:57:58: except that I think I would want random access? not sure. < 1325884852 908571 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: n=2, you already have random access. < 1325884857 899038 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The second element is one pointer dereference slower. < 1325884865 180378 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: We're actually married. < 1325884878 258094 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1325884888 647115 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: true enough. < 1325884893 647847 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :a linked list would be fine. < 1325884915 145242 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: And consing is much faster for a linked list. < 1325884968 754769 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eek, who changed github? < 1325884970 259519 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Was it fizzie? < 1325884993 378413 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :honestly this is one of those structures where efficiency is absolutely pointless to worry about. so.. default to the one that's more commonly used? < 1325885016 543338 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Like I said, use Vector sparingly. < 1325885078 492289 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did no such thing. *whistles* < 1325885088 518448 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: :( < 1325885090 145695 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Put it back! < 1325885092 448901 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's wrong with Vector? < 1325885180 551040 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's our vector, Victor? < 1325885181 507246 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Slow updates, no sharing. < 1325885184 514680 :Jafet1!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1325885202 570500 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1325885285 555872 :iconmaster!~iconmaste@cpe-74-79-18-174.twcny.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1325885302 924486 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Their blog isn't saying anything about any changes. It seems to be mostly about drinking. < 1325885337 38939 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such is life. < 1325885464 581205 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1325885548 630393 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1325886104 546287 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1325886147 58491 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@msseg < 1325886147 258208 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not enough privileges < 1325886153 536824 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@moseg < 1325886153 855493 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you meant: more msg < 1325886178 421552 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders what that command kallisti kept correcting to is < 1325886187 996164 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@msg < 1325886188 315299 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not enough privileges < 1325886196 851599 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm i guess that _is_ it < 1325886206 904166 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@list msg < 1325886207 102701 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :system provides: echo list listchans listmodules listservers uptime < 1325886209 841881 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :@mossagas < 1325886210 419 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't have any new messages. < 1325886239 350780 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@mesag < 1325886239 543340 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not enough privileges < 1325886258 436967 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messa < 1325886258 753865 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you meant: messages messages? msg oeis vera < 1325886305 649089 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@admin < 1325886305 965702 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not enough privileges < 1325886309 540233 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@list admin < 1325886309 860161 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :system provides: echo list listchans listmodules listservers uptime < 1325886349 877891 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder if they really are in system, or if it just defaults to that because of the privilege stuff < 1325886357 856642 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages? < 1325886358 174814 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, no messages today. < 1325886362 122764 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@list wefiubp < 1325886362 440358 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :No module "wefiubp" loaded < 1325886365 819882 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aww :( < 1325886377 667370 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@message PiRSquared17_ Hello! < 1325886377 826045 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you meant: messages messages? < 1325886390 675216 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tekk PiRSquared17_ Hello! < 1325886390 992761 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1325886399 830078 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1325886400 624388 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :PiRSquared17: don't be sad, just sit down and meditate on the mantra "finnmark" < 1325886403 166253 :PiRSquared17_!~chatzilla@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tekk = mell? < 1325886403 326460 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :PiRSquared17_: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. < 1325886412 141673 :PiRSquared17_!~chatzilla@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages < 1325886412 451345 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :PiRSquared17 said 22s ago: Hello! < 1325886421 979406 :PiRSquared17_!~chatzilla@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :finnmark < 1325886434 844738 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :PiRSquared17: tekk = tell, autocorrection < 1325886540 376778 :PiRSquared17_!~chatzilla@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1325886554 615754 :PiRSquared17_!~chatzilla@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@yrkk PiRS|test foo < 1325886554 774953 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknown command, try @list < 1325886560 847584 :PiRSquared17_!~chatzilla@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@trkk PiRS|test foo < 1325886561 166241 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknown command, try @list < 1325886565 505058 :PiRSquared17_!~chatzilla@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@trlk PiRS|test foo < 1325886565 822308 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you meant: tell url < 1325886582 22651 :PiRSquared17_!~chatzilla@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :How close is close enough? < 1325886585 356422 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 < 1325886591 767115 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :@frob f :: a -> b < 1325886592 84849 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :h . f = f . g < 1325886593 589705 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lev. distance? < 1325886597 291013 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but only if unambiguous < 1325886619 709076 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1325886668 166538 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@fear f :: a -> a < 1325886668 325859 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you meant: faq keal learn read < 1325886678 58196 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm... < 1325886696 282130 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@fare f :: a -> a < 1325886696 440243 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you meant: arr fact faq farber free more part yarr < 1325886713 872128 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@grue f :: a -> a < 1325886714 67892 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you meant: free run < 1325886739 963875 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :@yarr < 1325886740 123390 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Get out o' me way, yeh landlubber < 1325886751 423567 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it's exactly what it sounds like. < 1325886772 946800 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@free coerce :: a -> b < 1325886773 266386 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :g . coerce = coerce . f < 1325886832 763021 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@free id < 1325886836 198545 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :f . id = id . f < 1325886862 478704 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@free ($) :: (a -> b) -> a -> b < 1325886862 671324 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pattern match failure in do expression at Plugin/Free/FreeTheorem.hs:54:20-34 < 1325886868 471863 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@free apply :: (a -> b) -> a -> b < 1325886868 630630 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :g . h = k . f => g . apply h = apply k . f < 1325886959 914820 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1325887218 738147 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@m < 1325887219 55390 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you meant: map messages messages? more msg . ? @ v < 1325887230 247513 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :mess < 1325887232 439194 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@mess < 1325887232 637600 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you meant: messages messages? msg oeis < 1325887267 925766 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@oeis 1,3,6,10 < 1325887271 729631 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Triangular numbers: a(n) = C(n+1,2) = n(n+1)/2 = 0+1+2+...+n. < 1325887271 920087 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [0,1,3,6,10,15,21,28,36,45,55,66,78,91,105,120,136,153,171,190,210,231,253,2... < 1325887275 711069 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1325887307 616027 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :@oeis 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8 < 1325887313 408334 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : The natural numbers. Also called the whole numbers, the counting numbers or ... < 1325887313 567072 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24,25,26,27,28,... < 1325887318 642121 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1325887318 798757 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The interestingest. < 1325887338 937034 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@map < 1325887339 149128 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.haskell.org/hawiki/HaskellUserLocations < 1325887355 536874 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The requested URL /hawiki/HaskellUserLocations was not found on this server. < 1325887363 79776 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1325887384 209721 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should be http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/HaskellUserLocations ... < 1325887522 44357 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :@oeis 3 7 4 8 1 < 1325887527 860923 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Sprague-Grundy values for Dawson's Chess (octal game .137). < 1325887528 22514 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [0,1,1,2,0,3,1,1,0,3,3,2,2,4,0,5,2,2,3,3,0,1,1,3,0,2,1,1,0,4,5,2,7,4,0,1,1,2... < 1325887537 647713 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot: Actually that was just from /dev/random... < 1325887735 685873 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :PiRSquared17: /hawiki/ is where the old wiki was < 1325887759 416756 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@oeis 1 5 5 5 3 < 1325887766 122905 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-83-229.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325887766 603072 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Decimal expansion of zeta(3) = sum(m>=1, 1/m^3 ). < 1325887766 895225 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [1,2,0,2,0,5,6,9,0,3,1,5,9,5,9,4,2,8,5,3,9,9,7,3,8,1,6,1,5,1,1,4,4,9,9,9,0,7... < 1325887772 288121 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1325887773 795515 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-83-229.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1325887776 948598 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1325887783 185422 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-83-229.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not my usual chirpy self today < 1325887788 605357 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-83-229.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :For I am a tad annoyed at myself < 1325887796 427687 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-83-229.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :At my ceaseless procrastination < 1325887808 478772 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-83-229.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I'm listening to Chopin. < 1325887880 68896 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-83-229.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chopin makes me sad < 1325887886 326799 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: just put off the annoyance until later, duh < 1325887900 500540 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-83-229.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should listen to... probably anything other than Nocturne in E-flat minor < 1325887921 115803 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-83-229.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nocturne in B major, here I go! < 1325887921 870741 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-83-229.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1325887926 312643 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: PiRSquared17: oeis doesn't require the numbers to be consecutive in the sequence unless you use commas < 1325887934 946318 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Ohhhh. < 1325887942 216655 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1325887960 984130 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: But does it require it to be a subsequence at least? < 1325887980 329385 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-83-229.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@oeis 3 1 1 < 1325887987 283678 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: i'm not sure, check the website :) < 1325887990 144379 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@oeis 3,7,4,8,1 < 1325887993 477175 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Pascal's triangle read by rows: C(n,k) = binomial(n,k) = n!/(k!*(n-k)!), 0<=... < 1325887993 635862 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [1,1,1,1,2,1,1,3,3,1,1,4,6,4,1,1,5,10,10,5,1,1,6,15,20,15,6,1,1,7,21,35,35,2... < 1325887999 80268 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Sprague-Grundy values for Dawson's Chess (octal game .137). < 1325887999 239531 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [0,1,1,2,0,3,1,1,0,3,3,2,2,4,0,5,2,2,3,3,0,1,1,3,0,2,1,1,0,4,5,2,7,4,0,1,1,2... < 1325888009 673700 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it probably _prefers_ consecutive hits, though < 1325888020 521584 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-83-229.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t ord < 1325888021 313666 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Char -> Int < 1325888025 837023 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-83-229.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map ord "Hexham" < 1325888026 988471 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [72,101,120,104,97,109] < 1325888036 597916 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :>map chr [72,101,120,104,97,109] < 1325888041 92090 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1325888048 361952 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-83-229.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@oeis 72,101,120,104,97,109 < 1325888049 37561 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Sequence not found. < 1325888049 514153 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Err, space between > and map < 1325888054 873435 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map chr [72,101,120,104,97,109] < 1325888055 707607 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "Hexham" < 1325888077 144053 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-83-229.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@oeis 72,101,120 < 1325888077 619649 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Sequence not found. < 1325888080 634386 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-83-229.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@oeis 72,101 < 1325888081 110835 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : a(n) = a(n-1) + Sum_{0 map ord "PiRSq" < 1325888083 689573 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [80,105,82,83,113] < 1325888091 666410 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@oeis 80,105,82,83,113 < 1325888092 180722 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Sequence not found. < 1325888096 258767 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.O < 1325888096 457571 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-83-229.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map ord "Taneb! < 1325888097 285435 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : : < 1325888097 445412 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : lexical error in string/character literal at end o... < 1325888098 954720 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-83-229.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map ord "Taneb" < 1325888099 747933 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [84,97,110,101,98] < 1325888109 946873 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-83-229.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@oeis 84,97,110,101,98 < 1325888110 422709 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Sequence not found. < 1325888117 775409 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-83-229.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@oeis 84 97 110 101 98 < 1325888118 369972 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Sequence not found. < 1325888122 106840 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@oeis 3,4,6,1,2,6 < 1325888128 630370 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Decimal expansion of the absolute value of the abscissa of the local minimum... < 1325888128 790815 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [1,5,7,3,4,9,8,4,7,3,1,6,2,3,9,0,4,5,8,7,7,8,2,8,6,0,4,3,6,9,0,4,3,4,6,1,2,6... < 1325888136 879504 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@oeis 56,56,56,56 < 1325888137 712725 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Quadruplicated tetrahedral numbers A000292 < 1325888137 871837 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [1,1,1,1,4,4,4,4,10,10,10,10,20,20,20,20,35,35,35,35,56,56,56,56,84,84,84,84... < 1325888140 92589 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-83-229.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@oeis 1 2 4 8 16 33 < 1325888141 83328 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Generalized Catalan numbers: a(n+1)=a(n)+ Sum a(k)a(n-1-k), k=2..n-1. < 1325888141 414077 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [1,1,1,1,2,4,8,16,33,69,146,312,673,1463,3202,7050,15605,34705,77511,173779,... < 1325888149 411458 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-83-229.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@oeis 1 2 4 8 16 32 65 < 1325888149 570619 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadruplicated tetrahedral numbers XD < 1325888150 46848 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Base 2 digits are, in order, the first n terms of the periodic sequence with... < 1325888150 205340 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [1,2,4,8,16,32,65,130,260,520,1040,2080,4161,8322,16644,33288,66576,133152,2... < 1325888185 916288 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-83-229.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nocturne in B Major is making me angry < 1325888197 354379 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-83-229.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :>:( < 1325888217 683919 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-83-229.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's try some Brahms < 1325888241 377162 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-83-229.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Opens quite lugubriouslty < 1325888246 531384 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-83-229.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/ty/y/ < 1325888274 828506 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl flip (.) < 1325888275 145917 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :flip (.) < 1325888280 402264 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@unpl flip (.) < 1325888280 719322 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(\ b c f -> c (b f)) < 1325888359 90066 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1325888528 559306 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-83-229.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, this is making me simultaneously mournful and excited. < 1325888536 873901 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-83-229.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Amazing how music can have such an affect < 1325888541 991146 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-83-229.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Effect. < 1325888545 640533 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-83-229.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of the two.. < 1325888616 107115 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly both < 1325888626 357537 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kekeke < 1325888629 884762 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :PiRSquared17: >>> < 1325888636 233850 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<<< < 1325888644 15233 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (>>>) < 1325888644 849110 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (cat :: * -> * -> *) a b c. (Control.Category.Category cat) => cat a b -> cat b c -> cat a c < 1325888656 670774 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-83-229.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t flip (.) < 1325888657 463901 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b (f :: * -> *). (Functor f) => f a -> (a -> b) -> f b < 1325888668 506097 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (>>=) < 1325888669 299061 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (m :: * -> *) a b. (Monad m) => m a -> (a -> m b) -> m b < 1325888669 457465 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :CAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAALE < 1325888684 632111 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: huh? < 1325888685 425474 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-83-229.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow < 1325888687 369079 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the real type of (>>>) < 1325888688 917547 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (>>>) `asTypeOf` flip (.) < 1325888689 590070 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a a1 b. (a -> a1) -> (a1 -> b) -> a -> b < 1325888692 50446 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless Ngevd means flip (.) < 1325888694 514301 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1325888696 764964 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*unless you mean < 1325888699 923921 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but (>>>) has that type standard < 1325888717 439816 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-83-229.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I feel all optimistic, thinking we can arise from the ashes of a broken society to make a new world < 1325888723 428192 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-83-229.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow < 1325888730 690904 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :we can't < 1325888732 80521 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)))))))) < 1325888732 401270 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chopin? < 1325888735 927286 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-83-229.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brahms now < 1325888737 109916 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: btw < 1325888738 378548 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i was merely pointing out that :t completely obscures their types being related < 1325888755 835736 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :challenge 1: write foo :: (Applicative g) => (forall f. (Functor f) => f a -> f b) -> g (a -> b) < 1325888759 36211 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this is trivial) < 1325888764 672512 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :challenge 2: write bar :: (Applicative g) => (forall f. (Applicative f) => f a -> f b) -> g (a -> b) < 1325888779 430895 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :laws of foo: foo f = pure g, where f = fmap g (by necessity) < 1325888797 423470 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :laws of bar: bar (fmap f) = pure f; bar (f <*>) = f < 1325888830 32931 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-83-229.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now for some Beethoven! < 1325888830 227124 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :bar (<*> f) = flip ($) <$> f < 1325888836 589620 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno if there are any other laws, those are the obvious ones < 1325888844 136262 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1325888847 982466 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1325888852 274314 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait no < 1325888856 830133 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-83-229.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am of course referring to the films about the dog < 1325888858 454989 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok dunno what bar (<*> f) should be < 1325888868 240483 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but w/e :p < 1325888887 12776 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: foo f = pure (runIdentity . f . Identity) is the obvious one < 1325888892 661678 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :bar I don't know how to implement < 1325888921 824273 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :are unicode characters allowed in the channel? < 1325888945 734865 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, banned, totally banned (yes) < 1325888960 146488 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-83-229.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, on the server, on the client, depends on the client < 1325888967 749788 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: erm, why won't the same implementation work for bar, Identity is a Monad < 1325889004 992972 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: will it follow the laws? < 1325889027 932822 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1325889328 58025 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1325889407 883460 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fmap f = (pure f <*>), of course, so those are the same < 1325889525 626789 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a hunch that any (f <*>) which has the right quantified signature must be of the form (pure g <*>) < 1325889542 859562 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what about \x -> (pure f <*> x) <*>x ? < 1325889546 972933 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*<*> x? < 1325889554 971473 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm... < 1325889604 613512 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but that's not of the form (f <*>) < 1325889630 861297 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: indeed not < 1325889631 972347 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... < 1325889637 252801 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t \x -> f <$> x <*> x < 1325889638 46294 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b (f :: * -> *). (Show a, SimpleReflect.FromExpr b, Applicative f) => f a -> f b < 1325889640 785126 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_< < 1325889646 465225 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t \x -> (?f) <$> x <*> x < 1325889647 100634 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-83-229.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1325889647 260355 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b (f :: * -> *). (?f::a -> a -> b, Applicative f) => f a -> f b < 1325889668 305039 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ok well bar (\x -> f <$> x <*> x) should be pure (join f), obviously < 1325889677 464967 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :does that work with the Identity implementation? i guess so... < 1325889736 9767 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think so too < 1325889893 884485 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well that was almost interesting :( < 1325889910 178933 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1325889967 634492 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :any expression that is to be of all Applicative types must be composed of pure and <*>, i should think < 1325890014 116574 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@test < 1325890014 311207 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you meant: let list tell < 1325890112 1070 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : Except thulium. < 1325890133 485551 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Despite its high price and rarity, thulium is used as the radiation source in portable X-ray devices and in solid-state lasers." < 1325890160 931951 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1325890180 421465 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-83-229.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Back < 1325890213 971729 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-83-229.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And now Debussy is making me feel alone < 1325890224 407678 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: IS NOTHING SACRED < 1325890314 288290 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes, nothing is very sacred in some indian religions. hth. < 1325890364 306216 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1325890371 683396 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :IS ALL THAT GLITTERS NOT GOLD < 1325890392 667169 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Main_Page < 1325890393 143774 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh < 1325890397 106609 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you revert it im too lazy < 1325890422 133459 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(diff) (hist) . . Language list‎; 11:31 . . (+78) . . 149.255.39.18 (Talk) (Just look at the difference just 20-30 rock solid Tea Party conservatives have made in the House already. They've turned "1/3 of the government" on its head and started a war between the establishment) < 1325890422 289986 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not this again :( < 1325890636 418450 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@test < 1325890636 576659 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you meant: let list tell < 1325890704 377869 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i can't, this stupid Taneb guy got to it first < 1325890722 986761 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-83-229.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bloody Taneb < 1325890737 755732 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck taneb, worst person ever < 1325890744 411909 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION founds taneb sucks club < 1325890760 954550 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-83-229.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can I join? < 1325890761 110766 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: also, no, gold is a counterexample to that theory. < 1325890865 84723 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK I have thought some more about continuous chess and it is the best thing < 1325890966 995510 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically, the board is a continuous square, and each area corresponding to an initial piece is instead full of continuous piece. < 1325891050 915086 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover++ < 1325891057 646158 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does play work? < 1325891079 660536 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless it involves derivatives or integration, I'm not interested. < 1325891084 778426 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I saw some other message somewhere about chess with continuous boards, and I have thought of similar ideas too < 1325891085 413505 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :To perform a move, you take some measurable subset of one batch of piece and move them such that the measure of the piece remains the same (this is inelegant but, I think, necessary) and \int ddp is equal to a valid move vector. < 1325891100 965003 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well of course. < 1325891134 559770 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: How do horsies move. < 1325891137 255153 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Capture consists of moving some quantity of piece over some of your opponent's piece, which erases the target piece. < 1325891142 820976 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, same way as everything else. < 1325891160 301585 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You just need to make the integral equal to a knight's move. < 1325891172 545468 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1325891192 853723 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Not restricted to the naturals, though, right? < 1325891202 227700 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want to take credit here for bringing the terms continuous and chess together today and also to promote phatom hoover's birthday < 1325891207 280330 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1325891217 599004 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the move vectors are the standard chess ones. < 1325891222 307011 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :woo hoo right on.. real brittania < 1325891228 616292 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Hmm, right, yeah, didn't think. < 1325891233 22420 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325891237 111985 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you can move half a knight two knight's moves, for instance. < 1325891240 310929 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: OK so let's play a game. < 1325891247 546298 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, probably on a small board, or this is going to be completely confusing. < 1325891256 353991 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that just equates to "bigger pieces in non-standard configuration". < 1325891277 232227 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, there'll have to be some restriction placed on valid displacement vectors. < 1325891287 614970 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a pic i came up with earlier today depicting a continuous chess http://oi44.tinypic.com/2sbtmvb.jpg < 1325891308 465807 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Lame??? < 1325891312 916616 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Otherwise you can just hop your queen out basically anywhere. < 1325891313 393518 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :explosion chess < 1325891327 78620 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: OK what limit. < 1325891329 546023 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, just that you can't move piece through piece. < 1325891335 495996 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK good. < 1325891343 881238 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-83-229.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except for the knight < 1325891345 627752 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What discrete board/configuration are we using. < 1325891350 315640 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-83-229.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I presume < 1325891357 150877 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, see, graphical display is basically impossible here. < 1325891375 653088 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You just need a real display. < 1325891377 714899 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: Those kind of idea have been done by a few other people too. < 1325891381 949047 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :BADUM TISHHSHSHSH < 1325891401 806112 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's nothing stopping you from mushing pieces out into a fractal, for instance, at least beyond the measurability constraint. < 1325891441 113957 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: well, i started to think about how my own particular idea as contrasted to phantom hoovers take on this term, as resembling the game of racetrack < 1325891447 760226 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Can't we just remove the measurability constarint. < 1325891450 130751 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :constraint. < 1325891481 580299 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: So wait, how do you capture. < 1325891485 192265 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, you said that. < 1325891521 621293 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I think you can make board configurations whose mate-yness is an unsolved problem. < 1325891530 182239 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er. < 1325891531 292415 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Check-yness. < 1325891539 871844 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Undoubtedly. < 1325891551 2072 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Simply calculating if a move is legal is nigh impossible. < 1325891602 495457 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my idea was that each move should be a straight line which can have gaps in it if necessary < 1325891615 475329 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I NOTE YOU STILL HAVE NOT PRESENTED AN INITIAL BOARD < 1325891622 83053 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, didn't I say? < 1325891637 887012 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I mean, a smaller one. < 1325891649 583928 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :3x3, king at each corner. < 1325891651 449470 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm playing around with weights on the Wagner-Fischer algorithm can have unexpected results. < 1325891654 463716 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :im reference < 1325891657 754212 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. You didn't, no. < 1325891659 975531 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: OK you go first. < 1325891693 330821 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm I don't know, perfect play sounds impossible. < 1325891717 295478 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-83-229.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, from what I understand there are an infinite number of possible moves < 1325891720 827872 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Also, *refrance < 1325891791 555741 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :video games have the luxury of finite vector representations < 1325891810 916865 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: GO ON < 1325891813 334978 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly anyway :-? < 1325891827 471591 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but math guys don't < 1325891835 738295 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :poor math guys :( < 1325891845 139426 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, assuming the playspace is [0,3]^2 and our king is at [0,1]^2 and [2,3]^2 for me and you respectively, I move [0.5,1]×[0,1] to [2.5,3]×[0,1]. < 1325891862 53071 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Proof of legality is left as an exercise to the adjudicator. < 1325891891 666754 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I appoint itidus21 as adjudicator because I am a terrible person.) < 1325891894 402015 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :dear god, what have i done < 1325891900 154358 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dear god, what has Phantom_Hoover done. < 1325891904 797420 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :dear god < 1325891908 83449 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: OK, I will have my move after approx. 3 hours of Wikipedia. < 1325891919 984023 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastelogs continuous < 1325891923 154324 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, aww c'mon, at least make a capture. < 1325891931 729218 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, *make capture < 1325891934 625042 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: By "one batch of piece", do you just mean a continuous blob of the same piece-type? < 1325891942 613510 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, same initial piece. < 1325891947 527117 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: That's really inelegant? < 1325891949 715790 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hidden state. < 1325891952 689762 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1325891968 835408 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastelog continuous < 1325891971 426218 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really, you just have pawn1, pawn2, pawn3.... as separate pieces. < 1325891993 288100 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.2287 < 1325891995 311575 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or you could not have that, it just seemed a bit wrong to me? < 1325892017 489883 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :humm.. < 1325892024 513202 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I think you should be able to treat your line of pawns as one big pawn? < 1325892031 815295 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Anyway OK um. < 1325892034 906770 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know, i should just look at the logs for today < 1325892035 224381 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That looks like a plural. < 1325892048 586762 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Well, your row of pawn. < 1325892054 656431 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: OK um... < 1325892061 562277 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-83-229.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :God I'm too tired to spell selep < 1325892065 771200 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-83-229.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: goodnight < 1325892089 95656 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was about to grumble about vectors but then I realised my definitions work fine with that. < 1325892089 929108 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Wait, er, you moved two spaces? < 1325892099 833748 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes, but I only moved half my king. < 1325892109 946078 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right. < 1325892117 388294 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: [2+pi,3-chaitin's omega] to... err... < 1325892138 736583 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, no. < 1325892142 756447 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[pi,3-chaitin's omega] < 1325892152 334649 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pi-1, surely? < 1325892157 52175 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, yes. < 1325892162 547347 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[pi-1, 3-chaitin's omega] to......... < 1325892167 186409 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you need to take its product with something. < 1325892170 887315 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right. < 1325892172 869163 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :THIS IS HARD. < 1325892176 199060 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And *which* Chaitin's omega? < 1325892187 833343 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"pi-1", aka the "two-pi". < 1325892198 855322 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :two-pi = tau < 1325892199 846569 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :AKA tau, qed. < 1325892200 954055 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Since it starts with a 2.) < 1325892201 430663 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1325892223 724228 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Which Chaitin's omega... I really want to say "the Chaitin's omega for the maximally-compressing language'. < 1325892225 40264 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*". < 1325892230 556057 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I somewhat doubt that's a thing, though, even theoretically. < 1325892232 656612 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't know it had to be a contiguous subset you move, anyway. < 1325892238 518400 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, Chaitin's omega for binary lambda calculus per Tromp. < 1325892238 834656 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It didn't. < 1325892241 993562 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just measurable. < 1325892253 883573 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[pi-1, 3-chaitin's omega]*[2,3] to [help Phantom_Hoover help < 1325892269 239690 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric : * Vorpal imagines chess with HP and headshots. [...] ok, what about chess on a finite euclidean plane itidus21: what are the pieces? points? what are "turns" in a continuous space. the pieces could be circles :D [...] < 1325892269 556904 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also remove the measurability thing, I want to see elliott go all Banach-Tarski on you. < 1325892278 599418 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I was considering suggesting that. < 1325892282 421485 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I think it might be "cheating". < 1325892288 223535 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also it would take countably infinite moves? < 1325892292 189381 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, honestly, I considered that. < 1325892303 207357 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe that means it's a non-issue. < 1325892304 357684 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have fun proving the legality of that. < 1325892320 218196 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, oi, are integrals even well-defined under those circumstances? < 1325892333 906355 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Can you help me figure out a destination please im bad at arithmetic < 1325892348 176028 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not a very good Turing oracle. < 1325892370 295944 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Er, I don't think you need to be? < 1325892373 946748 :PiRSquared17_!~chatzilla@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> tau/pi < 1325892374 936832 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: `tau' < 1325892381 796004 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: To help me figure out a simple valid destination. < 1325892383 340267 :PiRSquared17_!~chatzilla@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@let tau pi < 1325892383 499422 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : TemplateHaskell is not enabled < 1325892392 67630 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I mean, we know chaitin is 0.0something. < 1325892397 541732 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric : "WHITE LAUNCH DETECTED" [...] "E5 HIT, 1 DEAD" < 1325892398 18598 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And there's a 1 fairly early on. < 1325892400 397995 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :In binary. < 1325892406 2512 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though did you need three dimensions for at least the "standard" bit of reassembling a ball into two balls? < 1325892413 29954 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :" Climbing up the ruins of the black queen?" < 1325892414 457146 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I think so. < 1325892425 374688 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yes. < 1325892447 175686 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: help me figure out a destination Phantom_Hoover is mean ;_; < 1325892455 40367 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ultimately it's because 2D rotation is abelian and 3D isn't. < 1325892467 920347 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want to have any part in your "game", sorry. < 1325892476 898192 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: someone also had the great idea of using gravity in continuous chess < 1325892494 613161 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 QUIT :Quit: Bye! :) < 1325892494 769456 :PiRSquared17_!~chatzilla@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 QUIT :Quit: Bye! :) < 1325892498 444061 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, are you talking smack about my game < 1325892506 522111 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Come up with a destination for me or I'll join him. < 1325892509 734790 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :" itidus21, what about adding gravitation causing bent paths?" < 1325892518 511377 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :;_; < 1325892522 21934 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, it sounds nontrivial since you need to have the distance match. Well, unless of course you just move the rest of the piece too. < 1325892543 294830 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But Phantom_Hoover's move was so simple! < 1325892560 799115 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1325892568 445085 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I think moves need to ultimately consist of contiguous blocks of piece. < 1325892580 292933 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because otherwise the movement integral isn't well-defined. < 1325892593 783423 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might be more sure if oerjan would wake up, the lazy bastard. < 1325892616 256218 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: COMEUP WITH A DSETINATION OR IL RIP YOUR SOUL < 1325892685 322397 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: (Is it actually possible to come up with a destination can't you just apply ARITHMETIC>?0000) < 1325892686 432882 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, move all your pieces into a bar along the centre? < 1325892714 508342 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/pieces/piece/ < 1325892727 802279 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yes sure. < 1325892742 279708 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: As long as there's some Chaitin on the board at the end of it. < 1325892743 235111 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'll clip my piece at [2.5,3]×[0,1], at least. < 1325892761 442109 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jesus christ, working out whether you're in check is nearly impossible. < 1325892770 845631 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1325892781 19305 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assuming it means your opponent can capture all your piece in one move. < 1325892785 408846 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/piece/king/ < 1325892792 481938 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you have to existentially quantify over at least the reals. < 1325892820 421535 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-19-212.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1325892868 581647 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, um, you definitely wouldn't be in check after that move, because I wouldn't be able to capture 1 king with 1-whatever king. < 1325892914 693595 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Excellent. < 1325892917 644377 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also does this thing work so that you can move the back half of a full pawn backwards and left one unit, and the front half forward three units and one right? < 1325892938 315432 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I'm not sure if you've noticed, but this game is impossible to play. < 1325892939 267649 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1325892952 311710 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or was it just "move one blob" sort of thing? < 1325892965 150846 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :continuous tarpit < 1325892967 704287 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325892974 528492 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl %x=(1,2); print scalar %x < 1325892976 748008 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :1/8 < 1325892976 904229 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yes. < 1325892983 68342 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Wait, really? < 1325892984 18867 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lolwat < 1325892987 985557 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That wasn't clear frmo your description. < 1325893008 92161 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_> < 1325893018 60732 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can use piece for propulsion. < 1325893023 749089 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*from < 1325893026 518522 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You're just making shit up now. < 1325893026 676469 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl %x=(1,2); print %x == 2 < 1325893027 311100 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1325893029 253646 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl %x=(1,2); print %x == 1 < 1325893029 729191 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 < 1325893047 174879 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also know of some chess variant where the piece on a square can be fractional (including even more than one, or less than one, but not less than zero). Pieces of the same kind and color can be combined and split as fractions; moving fractions uses up that much fraction of a move, and you can capture an opponent's fraction by your piece the same or greater fraction. < 1325893049 237090 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no, it's a consequence of the legality integral. < 1325893068 91606 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl %x=(1,2,3,4); print %x == 2 < 1325893068 727033 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 < 1325893088 813786 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Ah. < 1325893109 430461 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: This must be what the Brockian Ultra-Cricket players have for an intellectual game. < 1325893113 148591 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Who were they? Cue fizzie.) < 1325893113 822773 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you move 0.5 pawn 1 backwards and 0.5 pawn 2.5 forwards it's still a legal move. < 1325893143 90456 :DCliche!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1325893144 678075 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : oerjan, oi, are integrals even well-defined under those circumstances? <-- probably not. although if the board is 2d, banach-tarski doesn't apply; there _is_ a finitely additive measure on all sets invariant under 2d moves. < 1325893147 531219 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess continuous chess Ultra-Cricket is their equivalent of chess boxing. < 1325893177 71512 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, you've read the rules, I take it? < 1325893191 187374 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: So 0.5*2.5 - 0.5*1 = 1 nowadays? < 1325893200 395403 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I like how almost all moves cannot even be named. < 1325893207 594497 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/2.5/3/ < 1325893218 532894 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: And therefore an AI that doesn't have to present its move is infinitely advantaged over a human. < 1325893224 175235 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Assuming we had real computers.) < 1325893233 81019 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I like how I still have no idea what's a move and what isn't. < 1325893248 670313 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It gets easier if you drop the measurable criterion? < 1325893255 821444 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It... does? < 1325893263 326504 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But how does the integral fit in? < 1325893266 38748 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-154-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My head hurts now; thanks guys. < 1325893270 364639 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl print 3 > 1 < 1325893270 839028 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 < 1325893271 164773 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : Ultimately it's because 2D rotation is abelian and 3D isn't. <-- the technical term is "amenable", it applies to all commutative groups but also some non-commutative ones. < 1325893286 124421 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hooray for 2 dimensions... < 1325893296 450708 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Well, it... gives you one less thing to check. < 1325893304 273482 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, if it's not defined, nor is any condition I can think of for move legality. < 1325893314 139062 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, OK, what are the conditions of being able to do that integral? < 1325893342 824972 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I hate to point this out, but you haven't quite made it continuous. < 1325893347 511470 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Time is still discrete. < 1325893360 203551 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA < 1325893361 353875 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right you are. < 1325893374 633935 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um... < 1325893392 562671 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: (You might have trouble with the concept of "turn".) < 1325893394 30818 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The legality condition is the only thing that needs changing for continuous time, really. < 1325893394 666261 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i had this idea from the racetrack game that only one object should be able to move at a time < 1325893415 556617 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :...and the semantics of a capture. < 1325893424 207766 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I suppose you could just end turns when a move's worth of movement happens, and disallow "non-terminating" moves. < 1325893464 490268 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's a movesworth < 1325893479 774865 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: One vector of movement per the blah blah < 1325893493 697509 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy, i dont know fwargleblagka;gaowirg < 1325893496 143058 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : oerjan, you've read the rules, I take it? <-- i'm not even going to try. < 1325893503 505036 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION jumps off a cliff wearing his pants on his head < 1325893547 113398 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :As I think they say in these situations, "gg". < 1325893558 856734 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It's short for "good game".) < 1325893574 846906 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: To perform a move, you take some measurable subset of one batch of piece and move them such that the measure of the piece remains the same (this is inelegant but, I think, necessary) and \int ddp is equal to a valid move vector. < 1325893588 622977 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh and < 1325893588 782081 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : OK I have thought some more about continuous chess and it is the best thing < 1325893588 938480 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Basically, the board is a continuous square, and each area corresponding to an initial piece is instead full of continuous piece. < 1325893592 668239 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus < 1325893592 987776 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Capture consists of moving some quantity of piece over some of your opponent's piece, which erases the target piece. < 1325893620 97864 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION moves 0.5 Phantom_Hoover into the Atlantic, and captures fizzie's upper body with 0.5 Phantom_Hoover. < 1325893633 933751 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Glurk. < 1325893641 987795 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote * Phantom_Hoover moves 0.5 Phantom_Hoover into the Atlantic, and captures fizzie's upper body with 0.5 Phantom_Hoover. Glurk. < 1325893645 448259 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :796) * Phantom_Hoover moves 0.5 Phantom_Hoover into the Atlantic, and captures fizzie's upper body with 0.5 Phantom_Hoover. Glurk. < 1325893663 391377 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, cool I didn't realize you could allocate the space of a hash table < 1325893669 516563 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ironically, real chess on a physical board is actually continuous except for the formalities of turns and board squares < 1325893676 106678 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :keys(%hash) = 1024; < 1325893684 126287 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :resizes the hash table. < 1325893724 375723 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that last rule probably wasn't wise < 1325893744 696304 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :might be better to capture the whole piece by covering part of the piece < 1325893758 585288 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or else you are surely just torturing yourselves < 1325893761 640190 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, are you kidding? < 1325893774 540780 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know < 1325893776 91503 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(no) < 1325893783 613106 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Capturing is really, really easy that way. < 1325893794 520492 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also it violates the spirit of continuous space and piece. < 1325893816 867877 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok ok you're right < 1325893825 182869 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i support the rule < 1325893853 665624 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed, the minute you start the game you are in check. < 1325893870 305790 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cell from dragon ball z uses these rules < 1325893897 798356 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: SLEEP, GLORIOUS SLEEP < 1325893909 997513 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm i think this integration is essentially about calculating (displacement of center of mass) * measure moved < 1325893910 191156 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you destroy all but 1 piece of his body and he can use banarch tarski type means to regrow himself back to full size < 1325893913 842626 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Knights are even cooler this way; you can use them as low-powered, tactical snipers. < 1325893919 37511 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1325893932 613106 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, oh, that's a lot nicer. < 1325893957 503813 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :UM EXCUSE ME I SAID I WASN'T INTERESTED IF INTEGRALS WEREN'T INVOLVED < 1325893959 89876 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, except for the condition about not being able to move piece through other piece, which I added later. < 1325893959 247199 :iconmaster!~iconmaste@cpe-74-79-18-174.twcny.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have absolutely no idea how this continuous chess thing works but it sounds like the most awesome thing ever. < 1325893960 517801 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait, is that _divided_ by measure moved < 1325893978 699245 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, no. < 1325893979 929548 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :iconmaster, I have no idea either, and I invented it. < 1325893993 870171 :iconmaster!~iconmaste@cpe-74-79-18-174.twcny.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, a game where a single move takes hours of mathmatical calculation? CLASSIC. < 1325894008 988199 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I think it's just the displacement of the centre of mass, actually. < 1325894025 496653 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :iconmaster: njot if u ply wif c0mmurrtr < 1325894028 34321 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless there's a counterexample that hasn't occurred to me. < 1325894057 665346 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, on the plus side, calculating the centre of mass probably needs calculus too! < 1325894063 476004 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: YAAAAAAAAY < 1325894069 696172 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Have you figured out continuous time yet? < 1325894072 785834 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :iconmaster: Hours? < 1325894087 215180 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :iconmaster: Dude, it's easy to create a move whose legality is an unsolved mathematical problem. < 1325894098 134700 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1325894103 36614 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heck, you might even be able to make a move whose legality is independent of ZFC. < 1325894121 983975 :iconmaster!~iconmaste@cpe-74-79-18-174.twcny.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, for someone like ME to make a move would take,like, infinity+1 hours. < 1325894129 965809 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :AKA infinity hours. < 1325894133 575363 :iconmaster!~iconmaste@cpe-74-79-18-174.twcny.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1325894142 856510 :NihilistDandy!~NihilistD@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325894143 651493 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: HA HA GET IT? < 1325894144 600966 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION moves 0.25 Phantom_Hoover further into the Atlantic, and captures elliott's head with 0.25 Phantom_Hoover. < 1325894166 170824 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is the best superpower? < 1325894185 388937 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok i thought up how it can get weirder < 1325894189 977347 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :challenge: make the cantor set important. go < 1325894198 14327 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : oerjan, I think it's just the displacement of the centre of mass, actually. <-- hm oh right, if consider the _whole_ piece rather than just the part moved < 1325894200 186609 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you extend the gameboard into the physical universe < 1325894219 949653 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: So, continuous time? < 1325894229 409040 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: so when you die in continuous chess you die in real life? < 1325894240 866625 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: Reality doesn't have the necessary resolution for continuous chess. < 1325894250 338214 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ahh i see < 1325894250 810634 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, OK, now for non-collision. < 1325894266 190891 :iconmaster!~iconmaste@cpe-74-79-18-174.twcny.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make the rules change based on the number of continunitous segments in play? < 1325894288 661255 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :iconmaster: NOT MATHEMATICALLY ELEGANT < 1325894290 50607 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what constitutes a "move" exactly? < 1325894300 400926 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: lol... hahah < 1325894302 897788 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahahhaha < 1325894307 773796 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A down-and dirty way would be to define it such that a move is illegal if the convex hull of the final piece contains any other piece. < 1325894318 474070 :iconmaster!~iconmaste@cpe-74-79-18-174.twcny.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok I have like no handle on what is going on I think I'll shut up < 1325894321 843957 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: i guess you need a bijection from starting positions to ending positions, and none of the lines through corresponding pairs must collide with another piece. < 1325894329 203909 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, that's better. < 1325894335 606816 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :can it be proven that a valid move even exists? < 1325894348 983438 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: But knights? < 1325894350 608819 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ideally the bijection should be measure-preserving. < 1325894352 671845 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: Yes. < 1325894354 488799 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover made one. < 1325894368 388269 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(on subsets) < 1325894374 97961 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I continue to assert that measurability should not be a condition. < 1325894388 375797 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Soooo... a move is a measure-preserving bijection which does not violate the intersection rule. < 1325894501 407125 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: How many times do I have to point out CONTINUOUS TIME < 1325894524 144828 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And for which C(f(P)) = C(P) + move. < 1325894528 746307 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : This is the best superpower? <-- uh oh, maybe it's not wise to sum opposing vectors, you could divide the piece in two and move them about as far as you want if things can cancel < 1325894594 425623 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, failing to see the problem?? < 1325894648 522009 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm I think I made a command abbreviation / typo checker that works slightly better than lambdabots. < 1325894659 563136 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Well it does mean you can move a bit too quickly... < 1325894664 962771 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: like, a pawn on e4 could move half 2 steps backward and half 4 steps forward < 1325894689 776205 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it checks for commands that the input command is an abbreviation of, and then if there's only one of those, uses that, otherwise it checks the levenshtein distance and if there's only one below a threshhold of 3 then it uses that < 1325894696 273606 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise it lists all of the matches. < 1325894716 57934 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, of course; what of it? < 1325894721 965711 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: O KAY < 1325894734 400960 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can take half a piece that way, sure. < 1325894747 267004 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: And then another, with one left movement and another acceleration. < 1325894751 790937 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this means that you can both abbreviate commands as well as have minor typos corrected for you < 1325894759 258318 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what i am hearing here tells me that if one was to develop this game in a serious manner then he could achieve mathematical fame < 1325894785 310014 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although there are of course other ways to go about that < 1325894792 939009 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, TbH, by now, it's not too hard to understand. < 1325894815 639036 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm.. < 1325894830 97057 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like the dirty version < 1325894846 433331 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the impossible to play one < 1325894885 615057 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's still impossible to play. < 1325894887 561521 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: CONTINUOUS TIME < 1325894889 306869 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was mainly because I made a hash of the definition. < 1325894899 500443 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a possible to play version of this game? < 1325894902 713185 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it's not elegantly generalisable, I think. < 1325894912 685791 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, only one way to find out... < 1325894952 386422 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll let you use my amazing portal chess server infrastructure to implement your chess game, in a few years when I have the most active portal chess server on the web. < 1325894968 356503 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: :( < 1325894973 654344 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: No. < 1325894984 764024 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it would be easy if you used the rationals or whatever. < 1325894986 196350 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But also boring. < 1325895000 313754 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That post-apocalyptic chess thing is pretty cool now, although it will never see the light of anything interesting. < 1325895029 180020 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, um, use Coq???? < 1325895030 132284 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I think you took me seriously just slightly beyond the reasonable threshold. < 1325895073 434803 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I figure the token expansion of what I am doing, it is very much like a comonad except that there is only one type inside, rather than any type. So I made up =>>: and =>=: and <$: which can be used with it < 1325895077 81667 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: What thing? < 1325895082 699164 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems to be the type of game which there is no board.. < 1325895098 103997 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the board is constructed as necessary to help the player determine the game state < 1325895098 909201 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/logs/log/_esoteric/2012-01-06#171155PhantomHoover < 1325895101 878550 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Read on. < 1325895102 724884 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yet before, I did not know any purpose of a comonad in the program. But now I do. < 1325895113 471385 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Up to Vorpal's SCSI fetish. < 1325895179 525328 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(=>>:) :: ProgramState -> (ProgramState -> [Token]) -> ProgramState; (=>=:) :: (ProgramState -> [Token]) -> (ProgramState -> [Token]) -> (ProgramState -> [Token]); (<$:) :: [Token] -> ProgramState -> ProgramState; < 1325895218 708238 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Maybe I'll just read the whole log? < 1325895360 337767 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@m < 1325895360 654864 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you meant: map messages messages? more msg . ? @ v < 1325895374 96868 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325895407 958368 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the chess topics started going berzerk once vorpal said: "* Vorpal imagines chess with HP and headshots" < 1325895465 621176 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are some chess variants with hit-points, there are some with shooting capture (you stay where you are when capturing a piece), and some with different board geometry, etc < 1325895525 247106 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :16:41:08: itidus21: I think the patent system exists because inventors feel entitled to the spoils of their inventions and this makes sense from an ethical perspective. Paradoxically, people claim that it encourages competition, despite it doing the exact opposite of that by definition. < 1325895538 799709 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: the idea is that it encourages competition by encouraging people to innovate < 1325895543 310015 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and discouraging copying < 1325895598 464907 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, but a state of perfect competition exists when you have multiple sellers selling the same thing at the same quality. < 1325895601 418992 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :patents make this difficult. < 1325895688 471322 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i nominate Phantom_Hoover to explain the idea of a bigger picture. < 1325895711 569174 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope. you're not allowed to get people to explain your points for you. < 1325895715 886636 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless I get someone too < 1325895718 297310 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :17:09:02: (All the school computers have Halo because.... I don't know.) < 1325895720 199347 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :we can have a proxy debate < 1325895722 599648 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: So they can kick people out for it. < 1325895738 627762 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dislike patents. I think is better not patented, and not patented you can still competition, innovation, unrestriction, etc. < 1325895938 911580 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :17:20:44: Vorpal: Okay, here: http://e621.net/post/show/43346/4-3-blush-darkdoomer-iriver-overstretched-rule_34- -- note, it's a SCSI cable; you can tell from the logo. < 1325895943 706197 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: That was impressively quick. < 1325895943 864868 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I suppose if there's always innovation then the patent system does not produce monopolies. < 1325895965 19510 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it does restrict competition / create a barrier of entry < 1325896017 614423 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :17:28:25: Huh, the 'coretemp' sensor on this Atom box is saying "Core 0: +23.0°C (crit = +90.0°C)" -- that sounds dubiously low, but I guess it's *possible*, since it's an Atom and mostly idle. (The box is making a worrisome noise, might be the PSU fan dying.) < 1325896017 807055 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :17:28:38: +23 is pretty much room temperature, though. < 1325896017 807149 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :17:28:40: fizzie, I had an old sempron that idled at 28 C < 1325896017 807191 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :17:28:50: when it was like 17 C inside < 1325896024 544078 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: My CPU idles BELOW ROOM TEMPERATURE. < 1325896026 644248 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Yes I agree it does restrict competition and other thing too < 1325896026 802062 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :With AIR COOLING. < 1325896160 973317 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I misread lambdabots code. my bot and it do the exact same thing.. < 1325896243 487477 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good to know yours will suck at typo-corrections then < 1325896266 316817 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried applying weights but... it's hard to determine how they interact with one another. < 1325896323 468976 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh also it checks identification on bot admins which makes it immediately better. < 1325896352 346661 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :f(0,0) = 0; f(x,0) = x^f(x-1,f(x-1,x^x)); f(x,y) = f(x,y-1)^f(x,y-1); Note that f(0,0) = 0 and f(1,0) = 1 and f(2,0) = 2 but f(3,0) is greater than googolplex. < 1325896446 297761 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :17:32:52: anyway is there any realtime chess I wonder < 1325896446 491006 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1325896454 457080 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont have a link though < 1325896466 883439 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes there is a lot of chess variants, there is some kind of realtime chess < 1325896475 896175 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :17:35:15: Vorpal: FRP maintains a sample-independent abstraction that logically resembles continuity. < 1325896482 1886 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: that doesn't mean computers are continuous < 1325896489 651300 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would weigh levenshtein distance by distance on a QWERTY keyboard but that makes it non-keyboard-agnostic. < 1325896492 388292 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :frp is carefully restricted to not actually let you do anything non-discrete. < 1325896493 339188 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: of course not. < 1325896505 421561 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/would/could/ < 1325897681 470234 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: let g(0,x) = x; g(n,x) = g(n-1,x)^g(n-1,x), then g is primitive recursive. And f(x,y) = g(y,f(x,0)); f(x,0) = x^g(g(x^x,f(x-1,0)), f(x-1,0)). so f is also primitive recursive. < 1325897804 68791 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm how difficult would it be to augment the wagner-fisher algorithm to include character swaps as an operation. < 1325897827 103183 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, remember dvorak and so on < 1325897836 767445 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thinks maybe he should have flipped g's arguments < 1325897844 893551 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example: help vs. hlep instead of being 2 substitutions this could be 1 character swap < 1325897848 598325 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :a very common case in typos < 1325897881 970460 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :night < 1325897891 222770 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damerau%E2%80%93Levenshtein_distance < 1325897980 727815 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but... but < 1325897982 35876 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no... < 1325897985 375383 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no CPAN module < 1325898054 771273 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : kallisti: that doesn't mean computers are continuous <-- did you see mentioned recently that FRP is curry-howard isomorphic to constructive time logic? < 1325898062 12843 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yeah < 1325898069 916632 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: linear temporal logic < 1325898071 865272 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you mean < 1325898101 179464 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm i think it was a slightly different mention < 1325898167 31039 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1325898187 226581 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://search.cpan.org/~ugexe/Text-Levenshtein-Damerau-0.02/Levenshtein/Damerau/lib/Text/Levenshtein/Damerau.pm < 1325898190 315329 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hi < 1325898218 787603 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: is there a rule 34 variant for perl < 1325898231 568799 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it exists, there's a cpan module for it. < 1325898234 301926 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if there exists, there's a cpan module containing porn of it < 1325898235 767066 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine's better < 1325898240 91709 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :including "if there exists" < 1325898254 639229 :iconmaster!~iconmaste@cpe-74-79-18-174.twcny.res.rr.com QUIT :Quit: iconmaster is gone! < 1325898257 535829 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :O KSY < 1325898270 224087 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :o ksy < 1325898281 214157 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION found it iresponsible to correct typos under the circumstances < 1325898321 198895 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :iresponsible < 1325898329 527322 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :very much so < 1325898351 171586 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the current version I'm using employs XS and so is fairly quick, but I suspect it doesn't matter very much. < 1325898362 494686 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: It probably does. < 1325898369 869327 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Edit distance is a huge pain to calculate :p < 1325898377 65697 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if someone does @[GIGANTIC COMMAND]?!?!?! < 1325898388 290187 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :then they're a jerk. < 1325898398 896056 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@23jj3o4jioj4o34509i34509832049834oitjkgjohjgoihjrfoijsdvoihweeoihsdvfoijhweroijwroijweoirjweegoijweogijsdoifjaskldnwiurghoiwehfijajsfoiwrg < 1325898399 348197 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknown command, try @list < 1325898564 199566 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm for some reason it's not installing. < 1325898599 754377 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm it has no makefile. perhaps that's the issue. < 1325898889 187800 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION installs manually. < 1325899070 348304 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-154-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :One doesn't really need a makefile, anyways. < 1325899087 303592 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-154-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's say you've got a single-file C program foo.c. make foo < 1325899088 465088 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-154-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bam. < 1325899128 581104 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-154-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(make, the build tool with domain-specific knowledge that somehow lacks important parts of the same!) < 1325899178 346786 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I write a C program they are usually a single file. Often it is CWEB so it has its own preprocessor, but it can make a shell script that does the compile steps. Sometimes it is linked with something else so I put those things in shell script too, such as SDL or Glk or whatever else. < 1325899700 204076 :madbright!189dfdbe@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.157.253.190 JOIN :#esoteric < 1325899830 65924 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1325899869 278362 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can digraph categories have any monads or comonads other than identity monads? < 1325900260 188533 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION → sleep < 1325900261 480257 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1325900556 41556 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1325902018 317597 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1325902663 940564 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1325904603 900545 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1325904678 265317 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325904742 960920 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> product [] < 1325904743 793649 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1 < 1325904759 601825 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src product < 1325904759 918753 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :product = foldl (*) 1 < 1325905522 489795 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know about digraph categories? < 1325905840 465166 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1325905846 377154 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1325905915 367151 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know digraph? It is, you have nodes and then edges connecting them from one to another (normal graph is directionless; digraph has directions). You can make a category of a digraph by the objects being the nodes and the morphisms being the walks between them < 1325906082 847963 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1325906084 804985 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :directed graph < 1325906092 634023 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1325906097 342295 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes I know what that is. I wasn't familiar with that term. < 1325906102 359840 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is also called "digraph" for short. < 1325906481 739543 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't the monad for categories one that's over the category of digraphs? < 1325906497 465667 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :The one thing is the free category generated by the digraph, and, uh... < 1325906524 890192 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-154-130.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1325906539 663951 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-65.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325906542 118474 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I don't remember how monads work, categorically theoretically; I just remember that Catsters video. < 1325906819 985325 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose, if there is one node that all edges go in one direction eventually reaching that node, with only one way, that is a final object, and that would be a monad too I suppose (it is called Proxy in Haskell, in the "tagged" package). Actually maybe I got confused < 1325907013 118517 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it is possible to turn around all the directions in the graph to make the dual category and then it make the comonad < 1325907141 927252 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you please tell me in case I did it wrong? < 1325909305 436521 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1325909330 690217 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :HI < 1325909346 726035 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello!!! < 1325909365 198788 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CTCP < 1325909393 310756 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :clog and iamcal have error message for unknown command < 1325910183 578292 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :SHUT the fuck up < 1325910695 366420 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :!!! < 1325910766 113465 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.229.241 JOIN :#esoteric < 1325910775 403723 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sup < 1325910791 385138 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.229.241 NICK :Guest96751 < 1325910814 718788 :Guest96751!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck that shit < 1325910826 335164 :Guest96751!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: hi < 1325910830 174809 :Guest96751!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: hi < 1325910874 117161 :Guest96751!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: hi hi hi < 1325910893 948360 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guest96751: hi < 1325910897 439901 :Guest96751!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1325911212 853284 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1325911300 507090 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If MSPA updates (which is looking more and more unlikely), don't expect me to remember to ping you < 1325911329 557491 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does glogbot log CTCP/ < 1325911336 86935 :Guest96751!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I AM SO DISAPPOINTED!!! < 1325911338 95377 :Guest96751!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :im cry < 1325911339 597094 :Guest96751!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :betray :( < 1325911353 974972 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently not. < 1325911365 375092 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :SECRET UNLOGGED MESSAGES MUAHAHAHAHAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAA < 1325911378 886033 :Guest96751!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: see: raw log < 1325911432 783567 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1325911720 627492 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Raw log includes everything it receives, except for the secret password < 1325911781 272753 :Guest96751!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What secret password < 1325911788 812185 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :its a secret < 1325912169 391878 :Guest96751!~elliott@95.149.229.241 NICK :elliott < 1325912175 724851 :elliott!~elliott@95.149.229.241 QUIT :Changing host < 1325912175 882138 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1325913135 152111 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1325914843 139719 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-162-128-110.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325915017 87694 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net NOTICE #esoteric :HEY_EVERYONE_AM_I_LATE?  < 1325915470 618401 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1325915471 753065 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1325915479 179789 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ive done what i had been curious about doing for years now < 1325915489 330064 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i build a graph reducing evaluator < 1325915569 494344 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it < 1325915572 820550 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :took you that long < 1325915577 342127 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is this something different from a term rewriting language < 1325915590 861158 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know if the things I wrote about monad/comonad of digraph category is correct or is wrong or confuse? < 1325915621 343691 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh its completely different < 1325915650 450861 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1325915673 610872 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a little C program that does reduction of terms-as-structs < 1325915733 864851 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :its only pure LC but the rewrite rules are pretty simple. it also automatically TCOs because its in place, and it doesnt have an explicit control stack < 1325915766 582538 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds like term rewriting to me. < 1325915782 289365 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it is, except theres sharing due to using pointers < 1325915820 795030 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That doesn't change the semantics of the term-rewriting language. (I doubt any actual implementations of term-rewriting languages don't use sharing.) < 1325915863 101018 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it indeed does not < 1325915891 401240 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO HA < 1325915895 839941 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but because its got sharing, you get call by need for free < 1325915896 156951 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But go on. < 1325915934 260368 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the cool thing is that its simple enough that you could built the controller directly in a chip < 1325915948 874151 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :See: Reduceron. < 1325915953 353395 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1325915956 876199 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1325915960 397348 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a graph-rewriting machine in hardware. < 1325915969 616462 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it is, but it has some fancy intermediate language for this < 1325915983 349173 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it compiles LC into a specialized language < 1325915990 561703 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1325915991 352139 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this uses the LC /as the machine language/ < 1325916002 418617 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It compiles a sugary Haskell-alike into a term-rewriting language. < 1325916010 95531 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The latter is what the Reduceron deals with. < 1325916026 150855 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net NICK :MSleep < 1325916030 157309 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"it compiles LC into a specialized language" < 1325916049 403926 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :by lc what do you mean < 1325916053 635846 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok so its not pure LC its something modified < 1325916059 305505 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :same diff < 1325916081 561719 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the point is, the reduceron doesnt use LC as the machine code < 1325916091 317667 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas in principle you could do so with this evaluator < 1325916094 685534 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: OK, you're confused. It doesn't do much to pure LC. < 1325916100 205480 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The point is that it has pattern-matching, data types, conditionals, etc. < 1325916104 696883 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That turns into _functional_ term rewriting code. < 1325916112 678393 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could just as easily write pure LC-style code at the lower layer. < 1325916119 574282 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah yeah anyway thats irrelevant to the point < 1325916129 841202 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The reason to use a compiler is because implementing ADTs at the term-rewriting layer would be stupidly slow at runtime for no gain. < 1325916140 14217 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :~pure~ lc gives me a bit of spooks < 1325916154 498623 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: you have to get used to church encodings < 1325916167 73300 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that sort of spooks < 1325916171 983854 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :alphaconversion sort of spooks < 1325916175 30458 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1325916178 344193 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :debruijn! < 1325916184 23471 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1325916188 942219 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :use your indices! < 1325916190 701355 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but is it still "pure" then < 1325916190 858282 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :FSVO pure equal to not the original < 1325916232 400916 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone know what the Emacs-for-OS X of the season is, I CBA to put any other OS on this right now < 1325916233 389959 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1325916236 374793 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, im going to muck around with an FPGA simulator to see what i can see :) < 1325916244 91980 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, http://emacsformacosx.com/ seems reasonable < 1325916247 930389 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: aquamacs < 1325916253 668341 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: No. < 1325916261 707767 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you asked for the one of the season! < 1325916268 579848 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The good one of the season. < 1325916271 112608 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1325916395 302929 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: Post your C code already. < 1325916411 963225 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i didnt realize you cared < 1325916427 74929 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I... vaguely care? < 1325916541 827528 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wants a statically-typed, non-strict term rewriting language. < 1325916572 780913 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wants non-von-neumann architecture < 1325916587 275215 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wants < 1325916590 873440 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah yeah, so does everybody. < 1325916597 711345 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.com/DPvpgnL8 < 1325916616 188458 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the point tho is that this is simple enough to design a non-von-neumann architecture with :) < 1325916642 790843 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lam? < 1325916644 396109 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :watch out for memory leaks. its not designed to be memory friendly. < 1325916648 629421 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambda! < 1325916653 719920 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's actually just LC, not term-rewriting. < 1325916655 819547 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lamb < 1325916665 687173 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didnt say anything about term-rewriting, you did < 1325916665 843232 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also you haven't heard of switch statements. < 1325916672 326894 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You said graph-rewriting, same thing. < 1325916683 509562 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i said it was a graph-reducing evaluator < 1325916687 230891 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Wait, you're running Mac OS X these days? < 1325916688 814321 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Excellent. < 1325916697 713903 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Why is that excellent? < 1325916703 411396 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you need reassurance, I still hate it. < 1325916703 874135 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: hes been on os x for forever... < 1325916705 339234 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're finally showing your true colours. < 1325916709 813697 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: No I haven't. < 1325916712 227109 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? < 1325916720 813311 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ever since ive known you, i think < 1325916731 831858 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used it for a bit, then I stopped because it sucks. < 1325916732 305511 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you've never known elliott. < 1325916739 49473 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahh i see < 1325916741 28016 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1325916742 691672 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1325916805 308239 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Can you write me a statically-typed, non-strict term rewriting language? < 1325916837 569639 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Sure. < 1325916846 726118 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :#!/bin/bash < 1325916851 955338 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :read < 1325916856 745145 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :echo SYNTAX ERROR >&2 < 1325916858 737102 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :exit 1 < 1325916865 58025 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Excellent. < 1325916876 413392 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: If you figure out the right syntax, it does just what you want. < 1325916878 781074 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: how old are you now? 17> < 1325916888 684020 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :26. < 1325916906 451946 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lets see, you were 13 in 2006, so youre 18 now surely < 1325916910 464794 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least < 1325916922 229534 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are really bad at arithmetic and memory. < 1325916933 63536 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh < 1325916958 247629 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011 - 2006 = 5; 13 + 5 = 18 < 1325916965 283634 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :give or take, depending on when your birthday is < 1325916981 119958 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :iinm its something like november 3 or something < 1325916992 753225 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I... < 1325916994 335007 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(im almost certainly mistaken) < 1325916996 749408 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but! < 1325917004 753088 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :youre within a year of 18 < 1325917009 14609 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like you're trying to be as mistaken as humanly possible. < 1325917013 278602 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And succeeding. < 1325917018 692850 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont need to try. < 1325917029 454298 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You're -4, aren't you? < 1325917038 261283 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :-4 + 2i < 1325917041 874964 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a) I wasn't 13 in 2006 (b) I'm not within a year of 18 (c) You didn't even know me in 2006 < 1325917044 323865 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: -6 < 1325917046 262185 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had a birthday. < 1325917047 687680 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehhh.. < 1325917053 860573 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe 2007 then. < 1325917055 444491 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: What date is your birthday? < 1325917068 304470 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember when you said you had a birthday but I didn't note it down. < 1325917068 620943 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i knew you within a year of getting to stony brook, possibly within the first few months of being there < 1325917068 977874 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: November 37th. < 1325917072 361998 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so late 600 early 2007 < 1325917083 748566 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Pls abandon piece of paper with elliott notes. < 1325917084 551116 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Did you read _The 35th of May_? < 1325917086 769046 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :november 3, november 37, SAME DIFF < 1325917088 34025 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fosh < 1325917090 927678 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :gosh even < 1325917098 904782 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: No. Should I? < 1325917101 224027 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Which one? < 1325917106 580782 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :All of them. < 1325917106 737126 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes, it's a good book. < 1325917130 322272 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, how about this proposal: < 1325917132 894706 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stop with the ageism. < 1325917137 153052 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1325917137 943528 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This includes discussing ages. < 1325917155 51273 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott is a dawg so you have to measure his age in dawg years. < 1325917156 160260 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :my earliest logs for this channel are may 2008 < 1325917159 880658 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose thats plausible < 1325917172 498781 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that means you're even younger, elliott D: < 1325917175 866832 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thinks letting people know his age was the most annoyance-causing decision he ever made. < 1325917182 736097 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION too < 1325917188 918478 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fortunately I'm old now. < 1325917194 626019 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Were you ever not old? < 1325917199 182163 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1325917215 38120 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: how else am i supposed to figure out what david deutsch looked like as a young man? < 1325917225 237259 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if not by looking at you < 1325917246 553135 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is actually David Deutsch. < 1325917250 939381 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::O < 1325917264 165050 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :WORLD RENOWNED PHYSICIST DAVID DEUTSCH IN THIS VERY CHANNEL! < 1325917352 351423 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm considering going to sleep in evenings instead of mornings. < 1325917354 924304 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 , Skype: patashu0 . < 1325918534 357746 :PiRSquaredAway!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 JOIN :#esoteric < 1325918839 807309 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-162-128-110.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: SLEEP, GLORIOUS SLEEP < 1325919618 485597 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1325920421 469253 :madbright!189dfdbe@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.157.253.190 QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1325920666 594176 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1325921435 510037 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.229.241 JOIN :#esoteric < 1325921461 467027 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.229.241 NICK :Guest55419 < 1325921988 933981 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1325921998 50300 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: You didn't tell me erus` asked that SO question. < 1325922034 125446 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guest55419: I don't know what that SO question is. < 1325922040 762129 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://stackoverflow.com/questions/8756456/how-to-test-equality-of-recursive-structures < 1325922042 702515 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I don't know much about erus`. < 1325922056 289267 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:32:28 erus` pasted “babbys first type system” at http://hpaste.org/56146 < 1325922057 81766 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :erus` is a much better nick than "Guest55419", though. < 1325922063 452178 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guest55419 is the best nick. < 1325922069 33816 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a commentary on the meaninglessness of identity. < 1325922089 573784 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh? < 1325922093 404558 :Guest554110!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325922095 538840 :Guest554110!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :TAKE THAT < 1325922107 22844 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :By the way, the Applicative operators should be called .$ and *$, I think. < 1325922128 689388 :Guest554110!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net NICK :Guest554111 < 1325922142 417498 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guest55419: Are you reading #haskell logs? < 1325922143 841815 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except that ($) should be called something lighter, and be infixl. < 1325922148 521324 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Maybe. < 1325922151 412004 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shame on you. < 1325922159 52792 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'll find the places where I mad. < 1325922176 669249 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In another channel I even more mad. < 1325922189 597363 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :08:14 < shachaf> Approximately half of #haskell ought to be eliminated. < 1325922194 152810 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :08:14 < shachaf> I hate everybody. < 1325922198 277500 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :08:14 < shachaf> That probably has to do with how I haven't eaten all day. < 1325922223 763811 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's rename ($) to (•), (<$>) to (‹•), and (<*>) to (‹•›). < 1325922267 776315 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's have infixl $, infixl *, ($) = (*) = id < 1325922273 173999 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :join ∘ putStrLn • (+) ‹• readLn ‹•› readLn < 1325922274 439507 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the logical way to do it. < 1325922284 386561 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Objectively nicer. < 1325922292 748837 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :By the way, my IRC client is racist. Is that thing after "join " a "::" character? < 1325922302 430030 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it's the composition operator. < 1325922311 404216 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/logs/log/_esoteric/2012-01-07#074433Guest55419 < 1325922313 501534 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1325922322 933978 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although that renders the guillemet-bullet things uglily thanks to monospacedness. < 1325922325 661511 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I DON'T READ LOGS < 1325922342 265141 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guillaume's Face < 1325922346 611571 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Also, is #not-haskell actually a thing? < 1325922380 924755 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guest55419: Why don't you join it and see? < 1325922398 29591 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might be bad! It might, say, have people who name themselves after violating rules. < 1325922405 176914 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or people who sha the chaf. < 1325922418 990367 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Name themselves after violating rules? < 1325922428 787965 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, like some kind of... cheater. < 1325922443 546512 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION plays the TITLE OF FILM OCCURS IN DIALOGUE IN FILM ITSELF fanfare. < 1325922469 362983 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guest55419: Ew. < 1325922474 336260 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No cheater in there. < 1325922514 843481 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guest55419: cheater got a job or something, by the way, so he's not in #haskell-blah much either these days. < 1325922531 176924 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guest55419: I was typing, not fair! < 1325922543 525628 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Oh, I assumed he'd just stopped bothering us in favour of you guys. < 1325922551 100098 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good to know the tranquil is global. < 1325922699 255670 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I agree that #haskell is crappy. < 1325923099 449136 :Guest554111!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net NICK :Guest554112 < 1325923111 662797 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi. < 1325923114 197895 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guest55419: But imagine that all the nonsense was gone! < 1325923117 601643 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then it would be good. < 1325923145 748437 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc has pretty much abandoned it, I believe. < 1325923147 434202 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Sorry, I go for mediums that don't inevitably break all my verbose questions into 2, 3 or more units of text nowadays :) < 1325923151 849214 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*media < 1325923167 814546 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I miss out on all the VALUABLE CHAT. < 1325923171 787715 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those monad tutorial jokes? < 1325923173 263381 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see none of 'em. < 1325923181 978040 :Guest554112!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net NICK :Guest554113 < 1325923224 324586 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:17:16 there are functors that don't have 'pure' < 1325923224 481396 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:17:16 i meant the opposite < 1325923224 481595 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:17:31 yes sorry < 1325923225 958832 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:17:32 hpc: any concrete example? < 1325923227 847264 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:17:36 i can't think of any off the top of my head < 1325923231 377227 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh come on. < 1325923259 282806 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:20:05 All examples which I know of functors, can be made Applicative by undefined < 1325923267 372109 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: DYK you can define anything as undefined in Haskell? < 1325923269 628965 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :teneen has a point. < 1325923273 774647 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :GET IT??? < 1325923279 158843 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :HA HA HA HA HA HA no. < 1325923286 738066 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in pointed functor. < 1325923290 772637 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH MY GOD STOP TALKING ABOUT SET < 1325923291 405741 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :GUYS < 1325923292 908831 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :GUYS < 1325923294 809216 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(,) < 1325923296 778274 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT'S SO TRIVIAL < 1325923296 934497 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guest55419 < 1325923298 806209 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(,) < 1325923300 866589 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(,) < 1325923303 175431 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :smiley < 1325923303 879487 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(,) < 1325923304 196114 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(,) < 1325923305 956411 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guest55419: MORE LIKE (x,)! < 1325923307 737321 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's bird < 1325923308 909578 :Guest554113!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net NICK :Guest554114 < 1325923313 861762 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: NO TUPLE SECTIONS FOR TYPES!!! I THINK < 1325923317 881071 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guest554114: YOU'LL OVERFLOW THE INT < 1325923343 577895 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:21:41 teneen : using that, i think `CoYoneda IORef' is an example 05:22:08 ski: but it can be made an instance of Applicative very easily 05:22:15 teneen : how ? 05:23:34 instance Applicative (CoYenda f) where pure x = undefined; _ <*> _ = undefined < 1325923354 859076 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guest55419: THAT SECTION IS CONCEPTUAL < 1325923357 733882 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: You said half of #haskell should be eliminated. < 1325923359 9409 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guest55419: LIKE (r ->) < 1325923360 321030 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try 90%. < 1325923401 610806 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1325923401 769118 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guest55419: You should tell teneen that the definition for <*> is too defined. < 1325923409 948575 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should be (<*>) = undefined < 1325923410 465358 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, not given up permanently, just yet < 1325923410 622446 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. < 1325923418 917205 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i should /join #haskell only on tuesdays and alternate fridays < 1325923456 114980 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tuesdays are the worst. The monad-tutorial-jokes of Sunday have been forgotten and so are new again, and the questionless daze of Monday subsides. < 1325923459 259694 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(NB: Not based on facts.) < 1325923463 92030 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There should be a channel where only the cool people from #haskell go. < 1325923463 247969 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's more like "it's bad for me to spend 18 hours a day in #haskell" < 1325923464 467660 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :MAYBE IT EXISTS AND I JUST WASN'T INVITED. < 1325923471 314339 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it's #esoteric < 1325923473 443031 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Maybe it's #esoteric! < 1325923477 828118 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Thank you. < 1325923478 461807 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(,) can make a comonad always, and a monad if the first type is monoid. While (->) make a monad always, and a comonad if the first type is monoid. And then I figured out the indexed ones as well, can be the first type is a category, instead of a monoid. < 1325923482 518061 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I wasn't invited to #esoteric. < 1325923485 124543 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guest55419, PWN'd < 1325923497 197358 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Yes, we were doing so well at the "cool people" thing before you barged in. < 1325923524 882488 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:24:41 teneen: but that instance clearly breaks the Applicative laws < 1325923525 688851 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:25:44 rostayob: which one? < 1325923526 792289 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1325923540 665168 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is viewing this as an elaborate comedy routine. < 1325923574 889345 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Ooh, then we get, on Set having an Ord constraint instead of Eq: haskell is a research language that prides itself on purity, it didnt have a proper way to handle side effects, but refused to compromise like other languages then stm came along, im just saying im suprised to find a compromise thats all < 1325923581 796784 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION stops reading this log. < 1325923588 310980 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guest55419: To be fair, most of the monad laws etc. are typically stated "modulo undefined". < 1325923601 83040 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thing that's annoying me right now is that nobody has any interest in writing down answers to the common questions < 1325923607 807148 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Which gives us horrors like the definition of `evaluate`. :( < 1325923612 142070 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in anywhere permanent / editable / easily linkable < 1325923612 617381 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Sometimes it's the opposite. < 1325923615 613030 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What common questions? < 1325923616 403896 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1325923618 456042 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1325923630 620109 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: A nice thing about SO is that it avoids that problem by definition. < 1325923634 146765 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That ehird fellow writes answers on StackOverflow. < 1325923634 462737 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1325923643 434876 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I hear he's FAMOUS. < 1325923649 645880 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think SO is great for common questions, and IRC might be better for deep / open-ended discussion < 1325923657 395787 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you do that well enough, kmc, you end up with ##c++ < 1325923667 25554 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thinks SO's strong hostility to discussion is counterproductive. < 1325923669 187976 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet, but if you don't do it, you end up with #haskell < 1325923675 432686 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's understandable, since it'd require about 2x the work to be good at it. < 1325923685 972924 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@karma ##c < 1325923686 290005 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :##c has a karma of 2 < 1325923706 141178 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I'm kind of sceptical that IRC is a good medium for deep discussion, though. People usually end up tripping over each others' definitions and revising their viewpoints faster than everyone else can update them. < 1325923717 515760 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guest55419, do you think other media avoid that problem? < 1325923719 448811 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It works if everyone has the same clock speed, though. < 1325923722 977009 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :'cause I've seen it happen IRL ;) < 1325923729 891131 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: No :) But IRC's quick-fire real-time nature exasperates it. < 1325923742 83523 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slow media like email even it out because you can't go fast. < 1325923748 263043 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you can, but it fills up everybody's inboxes. < 1325923748 421761 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: The other problem is that most -- or at least a lot of -- people who write permanenty linkable answers to things have no idea what they're talking about. < 1325923758 973802 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Monad tutorials are the obvious examples but it's a lot more common than that. < 1325923767 814190 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I've just read the first two chapters of LYAH! Who wants to read my Haskell tutorial? < 1325923774 880279 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell is purely functional, which means that it can't print to the screen. < 1325923779 293875 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, yeah. if we encourage people to put things on the wiki, then we can fix them < 1325923784 768808 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instead we use GHCi to execute our code, which turns into side effects behind the scenes. < 1325923788 364892 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in practice many wiki articles are shite too < 1325923791 28256 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :GHCi is written in C/C++. < 1325923801 765081 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :guest should write a tutorial < 1325923803 527328 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: That's true, except that wiki articles tend to end up at local optima. < 1325923804 2154 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guest55419, I see you've been taking lessons from shachaf on how to troll me < 1325923811 32710 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOTE: The following recursive fibonacci program is slower than this iterative C version. < 1325923811 349326 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, better than local pessima < 1325923824 104205 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is because we don't have to declare the types in Haskell, as it is an interpreted language, so the interpreter cannot optimis eit. < 1325923830 544351 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Hey, I pretty much stopped doing those things when you asked! Didn't I? < 1325923836 178649 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: No. < 1325923842 26479 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :data D = D deriving (Eq) < 1325923848 348264 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :instance Num D where { fromIntegral 8 = D } < 1325923853 84913 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(========) = (==) < 1325923870 663364 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: You're giving a great demonstration of how IRC maintains a high level of discourse. < 1325923893 175092 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 NICK :elliott < 1325923895 592488 :elliott!~elliott@95.149.229.241 QUIT :Changing host < 1325923895 748779 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1325923928 985447 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The main problem with SO is that people give out upvotes way too easily, and there's a tragedy of the commons for questions with common misconceptions. < 1325923946 605274 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :For instance, I am fairly sure the monads-as-containers explanation would get upvoted pretty heavily. < 1325923956 858318 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That's true of IRC too, pretty much. < 1325923964 578402 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except upvotes = visibility = volume of posts. < 1325923979 637786 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, what monads is, is a kind of mathematical structure supporting certain operations following certain laws. < 1325923992 360345 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also there was a question about describing FRP where Conal gave a simple explanation of it and how to come up with it yourself, and there was another answer going "it's about events which cause signals to travel through event handlers in a network" where everyone commented going "Much nicer than the abstract nonsense explanation +1!!!". < 1325924006 653737 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some types that are monads might be containers, but some might have a different purpose < 1325924009 914346 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I think "monads as containers" is a decent analogy, if you're upfront about the fact that it *is* an analogy, and not universal < 1325924020 516379 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's mitigated by (a) most questions having a single, obvious answer and (b) the most knowledgable community members being the most active early voters. < 1325924029 552588 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lot of monads are nicely described this way, though not all < 1325924030 243306 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I think it only apply to some types. Some monad types can be as containers < 1325924031 271458 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Yes, fair enough. I should have typed "space suit" instead or similar. < 1325924032 338619 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I think it's harmful. < 1325924042 576284 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree with shachaf though, I don't condone teaching monads like that. < 1325924046 588390 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact there may be a formal mathematical distinction between the monads nicely described by it and the ones which aren't < 1325924051 610806 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :At the point that someone wants to "understand monads", at least. < 1325924055 864844 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It could be useful for developing further intuition about when to apply monads after you know what they are. < 1325924076 599048 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But starting people off on it just leads to misconceptions where people think (m a) always has to contain an a in there. < 1325924083 37509 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1325924102 455497 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you show them ((->) r) then it's obvious that it needn't *literally* contain an a < 1325924104 91859 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Hey, you want to know the real comedy? < 1325924108 154803 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :while showing how it can *conceptually* contain one < 1325924108 312748 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :We're talking about monad tutorials. < 1325924113 336468 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you pace around the room slowly while chanting with your hands cupped together like this for two weeks, you will understand monads < 1325924138 189565 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pie jesu domine, dona eis requiem < 1325924143 78478 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@google monads are essentially decorators with method chaining < 1325924144 29098 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=439429 < 1325924144 188158 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Title: So monads are essentially decorators with method chaining? | Hacker News < 1325924145 494208 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you should describe monads in terms of join and fmap as well as >>= and even mean it is applicative functor too, and in terms of mathematics. Understand Haskell better by understanding mathematics better and vice versa. < 1325924155 3002 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Um, excuse me, monads are about sequencing. < 1325924155 160916 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the best explanation of monads. < 1325924155 797553 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh < 1325924163 143952 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops. < 1325924166 818529 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No only some can be < 1325924170 62814 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[] is just sequencing a lot of things and the reverse state monad is sequencing things backwards and forwards at the same time! < 1325924174 454893 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I heard it on reddit. < 1325924175 88634 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's go back to the pedagogical discussion. That or data D = D. < 1325924181 321305 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, D = D is better than this. < 1325924184 598678 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Expand. < 1325924190 489172 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm glad you understand the brilliance of my type and Num instance < 1325924205 410104 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh noes i wrote fromIntegral instead of fromInteger < 1325924207 514088 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :data D where D :: D < 1325924212 304642 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hangs head in shame < 1325924212 502910 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :::D < 1325924221 212107 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Hey, if you want it to be in Num, it is. < 1325924225 869173 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nobody knows what's in Num. < 1325924228 7003 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You also forgot Eq. < 1325924228 165987 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so this is basically the cool kids version of #haskell < 1325924234 556148 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can remember about 2/3rds of it at the best of times. < 1325924238 880757 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: He derived that. < 1325924242 788902 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1325924244 102812 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Sometimes. < 1325924248 473260 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Show, then. < 1325924252 95558 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :#esoteric : #haskell :: YOSPOS : SH/SC < 1325924267 752639 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :How did Num even get defined? < 1325924275 336767 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, I want to know how they actually decided which arbitrary subset of methods to include. < 1325924302 717907 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know what monads and comonads that a digraph category can have? < 1325924315 892958 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried to explain but am unsure if it is correct < 1325924322 126691 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Makes two of us. < 1325924330 269539 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( C : Haskell :: Exoteric : Esoteric ) < 1325924339 616361 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell is the ultimate esoteric language < 1325924346 788023 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :See, only in #esoteric is our Haskell talk punctuated with zzo38 and itidus21. < 1325924348 729694 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that or C++ < 1325924364 380304 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Not true, people have actually read the Haskell report. < 1325924375 903326 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's at least one well-liked esolang that nobody has read the entire spec to. < 1325924383 366839 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now *that's* dictionary-definition esoteric. < 1325924398 692971 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Special:Recentchanges I like how we have multiple spambots editing the main page IN SUCCESSION. < 1325924409 919385 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Editing each other's spam. < 1325924554 941178 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm contemplating whether to go to Hac Boston. < 1325924565 194782 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :do it < 1325924577 675135 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :This Hac Boston thing has been talked about for like three years and it still hasn't happened. < 1325924581 213314 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Boston just can't be Hacced. < 1325924589 6378 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It's in two weeks. < 1325924719 397208 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do *you* know monad/comonad that a digraph category can have??? < 1325924768 901413 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wants sameIORef :: IORef a -> IORef b -> Maybe (a :=: b) in Data.IORef. < 1325924771 696553 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if he can get it. < 1325924837 623421 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_O < 1325924839 206148 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I said that a digraph category with a final object has a Proxy monad but I am a bit unsure < 1325924844 138859 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...what are you doing that wants that < 1325924861 73203 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are a strange person with strange cares < 1325924867 984661 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I want an equivalent type in http://hackage.haskell.org/package/vault, since it expresses the core type-system feature vault needs unsafeCoerce to get. < 1325924875 584522 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But apfelmus wants to keep the API IORef-compatible. < 1325924893 260966 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The data structure is analogous to a bank vault, where you can access different bank boxes with different keys" < 1325924895 462024 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Basically, it lets you write a heterogeneous map where the type information is stored in the keys. < 1325924895 991587 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :COOL ANALOGY BRO < 1325924899 550153 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, not my package. < 1325924901 603929 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/vault/0.1.0.0/doc/html/Data-Vault.html < 1325924907 661008 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the easiest way to understand the API. < 1325924947 910844 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*nod* < 1325924958 118988 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, you can implement it all given < 1325924960 941544 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :newKey :: IO (Key a) < 1325924967 20850 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sameKey :: Key a -> Key b -> Maybe (a :=: b) < 1325924972 789061 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Literally just that. < 1325924991 893683 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It's slow, of course, because you're reduced to using an a-list.) < 1325925021 120150 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like "type Vault = Vault RealWorld" < 1325925040 32141 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/vault/0.1.0.0/doc/html/Data-Vault-ST.html :p < 1325925063 530973 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, yes. < 1325925172 605388 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sameIORef :: IORef a -> IORef b -> Maybe (a :=: b) < 1325925172 799106 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sameIORef a b < 1325925172 799288 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : | a' == b' = Just (unsafeCoerce refl) < 1325925174 348673 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : | otherwise = Nothing < 1325925176 297802 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : where a', b' :: IORef () < 1325925178 342981 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : a' = unsafeCoerce a < 1325925180 282829 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : b' = unsafeCoerce b < 1325925182 267759 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :See, it's easy! < 1325925184 263853 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even works with the data a :=: b = Equal { subst :: forall p. p a -> p b } definition. < 1325925293 440190 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"unsafeCoerce refl" is pretty good. < 1325925472 646772 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@brain < 1325925472 844797 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, Pinky, if by any chance you are captured during this mission, < 1325925473 3661 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :remember you are Gunther Heindriksen from Appenzell. You moved to Grindelwald < 1325925473 159842 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :to drive the cog train to Murren. Can you repeat that? < 1325925553 140833 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, hmm, I'm not sure that definition of (:=:) actually works for this. < 1325925575 569842 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, yes it does. < 1325925666 417348 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle (a -> Maybe b) -> [a] -> Maybe b < 1325925666 734965 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude mapM_ :: Monad m => (a -> m b) -> [a] -> m () < 1325925666 893056 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Monad mapM_ :: Monad m => (a -> m b) -> [a] -> m () < 1325925667 91306 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Monad forM_ :: Monad m => [a] -> (a -> m b) -> m () < 1325925675 86881 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, you silly bot! < 1325925684 392459 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle [Maybe a] -> Maybe a < 1325925684 630779 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Monad msum :: MonadPlus m => [m a] -> m a < 1325925684 789122 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Generics.Aliases orElse :: Maybe a -> Maybe a -> Maybe a < 1325925684 945671 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Foldable asum :: (Foldable t, Alternative f) => t (f a) -> f a < 1325925694 557214 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, msum. < 1325925790 933330 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: shachaf: http://sprunge.us/QMbF < 1325925886 186857 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is the way I used for execution of a token list, is there a better way? execute p @ ProgramState { psTokens = h : t } = let { p' = t <$: p; } in execute . either ($ p') (p' =>>:) $ meaning h p'; < 1325925897 316721 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually Unique is better than (IORef ()) there. < 1325925984 211908 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this similar to the way you would have done, or not? < 1325926068 659239 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: anyway, it's not *that* a weird thing to want -- it's just a way of being able to reveal the type of an existential, because if two Key/IORef/whatever values are identical, they have to have the same type < 1325926093 920534 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should be allowed to pattern match "lookup k (Vault xs) = ... xs" as "(lookup k . Vault) = ...". IT MAKES PERFECT SENSE < 1325926104 722471 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I just wished for that earlier today. In here. < 1325926122 813460 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Sounds like the reverse state monad's been doing some sequencing! < 1325926128 890640 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1325926175 661748 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: What's the point of using IORef there? < 1325926180 308659 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, you already talked about that. < 1325926182 365086 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I understand but I think you are wrong because of the way that patterns are working; it cannot possibly work properly using that way so maybe it should be some kind of macro instead; if they had macros then you could make it up in a way that work always < 1325926183 328595 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :08:44 Actually Unique is better than (IORef ()) there. < 1325926213 148384 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: You've crushed my argument completely. < 1325926229 68628 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zanks, zzo38. zzo38. < 1325926251 374779 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Actually, you don't even need RankNTypes: http://sprunge.us/KEhV < 1325926274 872086 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although sameKey tells you distinctly less about the types there. < 1325926300 910840 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :How would you do a token expansion/execution loop in Haskell, anyways? I did it one way but maybe there is better way, I don't know < 1325926360 204511 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Can you write a proper statically-typed lazy term rewriting language for me? < 1325926374 497900 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I already did that earlier today. < 1325926380 53336 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: It wasn't proper enough. < 1325926380 211672 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@let proper = undefined < 1325926381 163999 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Defined. < 1325926391 681479 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Sure it was. It obeys all the proper laws, see? < 1325926402 493152 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1325926411 806501 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The <$: and =>>: are pretending that it is a environment comonad) < 1325926424 712641 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aw, there, there, elliott. Don't be sad. I'll write a statically-typed lazy term rewriting language for you. < 1325926445 346537 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: What do you want it for, anyway? < 1325926497 235892 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it'd be neat. < 1325926546 479715 :DeStRoYeR87!~rezpeckto@222.124.156.228 JOIN :#esoteric < 1325926562 764379 :DeStRoYeR87!~rezpeckto@222.124.156.228 QUIT : < 1325926564 996917 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :rip < 1325926567 912911 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :destroyer < 1325926571 941573 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :we will miss you :'( < 1325926573 957597 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"destroyed" < 1325926577 530024 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1325926589 346899 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-83-229.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325926611 784909 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aw, kmc visited #not-haskell and I didn't notice. < 1325926618 644944 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :He didn't get the special elliott treatment. < 1325926619 168878 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're the worst channel founder ever < 1325926624 923659 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-83-229.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1325926628 701428 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I was kicking everyone else who came in there! < 1325926660 870780 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least the signal-to-noise ratio -- well, I don't know about the ratio, but there was very little noise. < 1325926775 417306 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :0:0 < 1325926812 542577 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :INFINITE SIGNAL < 1325926822 682062 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 0/0 < 1325926823 513414 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : NaN < 1325926828 711180 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Naan is delicious. QED < 1325926939 301385 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1325926964 325246 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: You know what would be great? If our compilers automatically rewrote pattern-matching as applications of a fold combinator, and you could extend data-types simply by writing a constructor and adding a clause to the fold combinator. < 1325927043 30072 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :make it hapen < 1325927057 421626 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: The problem is all those pesky non-structurally-recursive functions. :( < 1325927068 935807 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :who cares about those < 1325927122 501216 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Me. < 1325927192 398667 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1325927195 889204 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: all functions are structurally recursive over some structure or other! :D < 1325927209 368054 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :except maybe the anamorphisms < 1325927225 20657 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Theorem: delicious naan. Proof. eauto. Qed. < 1325927249 629351 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :get out of here with your fake coq < 1325927328 327487 :Patashu!Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1325927399 936343 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: You should end all your proofs with "Admitted.". < 1325927403 297678 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you can never go wrong. < 1325927441 115579 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel left out for not knowing Coq. :-( < 1325927507 488937 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :get out of here with your 8" purple vibrating coq < 1325927523 844901 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :One day someone will talk about Coq and not make a really boring joke. < 1325927536 643514 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least i didn't make a santorum joke < 1325927556 66169 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Coq is like Agda, except the messes of Unicode are replaced by messes of half-sentences. < 1325927576 361855 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :eauto. subst in H. split e'. assert (Q : hy_u r42). < 1325927598 102969 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the best thing is that H, e', etc. have implicit binding occurrences < 1325927613 776232 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :each tactic can introduce hypotheses with auto-generated names < 1325927615 46543 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i always used to go back and bind everything explicitly at the end < 1325927616 696010 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then you can refer to those < 1325927621 330128 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because < 1325927623 370082 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i couldn't cope < 1325927627 212169 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coq bondage < 1325927640 302672 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think we should ban kmc. < 1325927653 173723 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think you should k-line me < 1325927677 638431 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aye. < 1325927685 902526 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I vote Naan. < 1325927686 733946 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :bindage and bondage aren't even the same thing < 1325927701 565157 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott is moving to Boston, by the way, I hear. < 1325927709 851441 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Stop it, you'll enhungrify me and I'll have to move to Boston. < 1325927711 344286 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's have a long, pedantic argument about the difference < 1325927723 18384 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Bindage tutorial joke! < 1325927737 817572 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would read The S&M Guide to Haskell < 1325927769 573121 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"IMPROVMENTS" IS NOT A GOOD EDIT SUMMARY < 1325927773 69835 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY AM I REVIEWING THIS CRAP < 1325927785 188869 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I MAED IT WURSE" < 1325927793 696134 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Just think of the badges!!! < 1325927808 862342 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :StackOverflow should give badges at randomised intervals rather than at set milestones. < 1325927813 36271 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you never know. You know? < 1325927817 240997 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't give a shit about badges, all I want is for my little ticky counter to go up to at least 20k. < 1325927825 627283 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/badges/points/ < 1325927827 55316 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Badges don't have a cap. < 1325927830 332342 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :we don't need no stinkin' badges < 1325927832 60853 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should be like monster drops. < 1325927849 226372 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The people who ask questions are monsters, and you slay them. < 1325927858 307539 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Come to think of it, that system might make me feel better about #haskell too. < 1325927859 99747 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, you're reusing my reddit metaphor < 1325927863 526135 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :This edit replaces a single occurrence of the word "i" in a question title with "I". < 1325927867 351082 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Its summary is "Fixed grammar". < 1325927875 583508 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: What metaphor is that? < 1325927877 500960 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The question itself has many more errors, and they're actually grammatical errors. < 1325927897 394721 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :reddit comments are like one of those video games where enemies spawn forever < 1325927900 413365 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :faster and faster < 1325927912 780802 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't win; the only way to win is to quit < 1325927917 837356 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'LL FIX YOUR GRAMMER < 1325927923 324875 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"added more tag". Edit adds a signle tag. < 1325927924 474543 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*single < 1325927927 370341 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Argh < 1325927928 4014 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*tags < 1325927930 784025 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I ruined my entire point :P < 1325927936 188065 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's also have a long, pedantic argument about the difference between "grammar" and "syntax" < 1325927952 208160 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: This is orthography, you illiterate fuck. < 1325927970 440980 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, it might even be typography, I'm not sure. < 1325927986 345349 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Man, it's been a long time since I've been involved in a good argument about definitions. < 1325927998 359834 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: What IS "is"? < 1325928019 587351 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :One might ask the same thing about naan. < 1325928026 869006 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What ARE breads? We just don't know. < 1325928032 36598 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :naan is pretty easy to make < 1325928038 374334 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have a sourdough culture and a frying pan < 1325928055 393560 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :injera is much harder :/ < 1325928059 82960 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I think this Nigel Lambert text-to-speech engine in my head will never go away or stop automatically firing. < 1325928073 668742 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I'm pretty sure sour dough culture is reserved to the east coast. < 1325928085 54036 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, San Francisco is world-famous for its sourdough < 1325928087 534894 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The culture is very different around here. < 1325928096 317654 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :happy dough culture < 1325928102 404116 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lactobacillus sanfranciscensis < 1325928106 863753 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Hella dough! Wait, no, that's northerlywards of that isn't it. Fuck you guys. < 1325928108 291337 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck America. < 1325928111 458502 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't keep up with your bullshit. < 1325928119 66738 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1325928125 622766 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You guys move too fast. < 1325928128 474184 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :we all living in america < 1325928141 288523 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :everythings an america < 1325928143 11958 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :america, ist wunderbar < 1325928158 473618 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry that's "amerika" < 1325928166 773665 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(tm) < 1325928192 331683 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the city of San Juan... < 1325928206 907451 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Pronounced "So What".) < 1325928242 780960 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, category theory in #haskell < 1325928252 987692 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :excitement < 1325928253 143798 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that better or worse? < 1325928258 176206 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :widely known for its production of indigo, coffee, sugar, tobacco, and silver < 1325928274 844805 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : A functor, F, is dense if Lan_F F ~ Id, and Y (the Yoneda embedding) is dense, so Lan_Y Y ~ Id Y /= Id clearly. < 1325928299 168973 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exercise: Append "clearly" to every statement. < 1325928313 201739 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :your exercise is trivial < 1325928317 863901 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly < 1325928339 316890 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: You failed! < 1325928344 663175 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly < 1325928353 73583 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :do i at least win a goat < 1325928358 500282 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: No, clearly. < 1325928363 514941 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc would much rather have a goat than a car. < 1325928368 678555 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's true < 1325928379 815847 :Guest554114!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net NICK :Guest554115 < 1325928382 893804 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goat-car. < 1325928383 684765 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :goats are cheaper < 1325928395 276993 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.goatclassifieds.com/PriceGraph.php < 1325928409 679384 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Don't they emit more CO₂, though? < 1325928415 164168 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, per km? < 1325928416 153346 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :DO YOU HATE THE ENVIRONMENT < 1325928424 697371 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Per year. < 1325928465 260040 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, goat registration looks expensive. < 1325928470 502544 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Way more than car registration. < 1325928478 928554 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You probably have to pay insurance too. < 1325928480 196189 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I MUST HAVE RAINBOW PARENTHESES < 1325928507 73961 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-65.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. So I get home at 2:30. < 1325928510 512266 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-65.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do I want to sleep? < 1325928521 577716 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-65.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh, not really. < 1325928556 964198 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@time pikhq < 1325928557 756406 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Local time for pikhq is Sat Jan 7 02:29:01 2012 < 1325928576 553337 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@time < 1325928579 703310 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Local time for shachaf is Sat Jan 7 12:29:20 2012 < 1325928582 519627 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :WRONG < 1325928586 682402 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@time finland < 1325928653 854415 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :British Double Summertime would be a good name for a band < 1325928669 84433 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So many band names, so few bands. < 1325928673 401692 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :== < 1325928685 435420 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a website where i can share my bandnames with prospective band-havers? < 1325928739 374776 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-65.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@time elliott < 1325928739 895346 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Local time for elliott is 2012-01-07 09:32:03 +0000 < 1325928746 344236 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: And then pay you royalties? < 1325928748 57237 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: /dev/null < 1325928748 373968 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-65.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I presume you've been up? < 1325928760 729599 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any band that picks a name using such a website isn't a band worth banding. < 1325928760 888868 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I woke up at 2012-01-07 10:00:00. < 1325928778 263921 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm still waiting for a band named BADNESS 10,000 < 1325928779 531142 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-65.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Impressive, considering that's in the future. < 1325928807 577230 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-65.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless somehow the UK's *not* on GMT right now? < 1325928817 10406 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-65.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I thought daylight saving was the summer, so...) < 1325928828 499482 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, maybe in the western hemisphere < 1325928871 884654 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how kmc accuses other people of being trolls. < 1325928876 505752 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1325928878 800474 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :do i? < 1325928905 44029 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't you? < 1325928906 542447 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Greenwich Mean Time. < 1325928917 40089 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently Greenwich isn't pronounced like Sandwich. < 1325928926 646080 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And apparently it's not moldy. < 1325928930 101754 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nor mouldy. < 1325928945 816183 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it mouldey < 1325928947 972066 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-65.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I have to work hard to get myself to do it right, but it's something like Gren-ich, IIRC. < 1325928958 295556 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Are you going to Hac Boston? < 1325928975 331116 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-65.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: No, I am a pitifully broke college student and in Colorado. < 1325928991 17152 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: You should buy a ticket for pikhq instead of for me. < 1325929000 666736 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, i was going to do one of these things? < 1325929012 647038 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You weren't going to buy me a ticket? :-( < 1325929039 609118 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION will have to walk to Boston now. < 1325929266 873964 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-65.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite a walk, I imagine. < 1325929274 673069 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-65.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(where are you, anyways?) < 1325929278 56478 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :boston < 1325929315 519950 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should hitchhike < 1325929319 490236 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-65.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, so more "hella-long ride on the T" < 1325929337 126698 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: California. < 1325929347 189365 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I *should* hitchhike! < 1325929350 306914 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would be exciting. < 1325929354 832632 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would take a while < 1325929357 576084 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never hitchhiked a long distance. < 1325929369 978641 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can ask lexande about it < 1325929378 133470 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :he hitchhiked from sf to canada < 1325929382 617426 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also from cambridge uk to paris < 1325929383 824028 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who's lexande? < 1325929392 707438 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :He hitchhiked over the sea? < 1325929393 824077 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :a friend of mine since longtime < 1325929394 616356 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's in #cslounge sometime < 1325929396 534314 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1325929398 366631 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1325929398 684033 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes he did < 1325929407 219760 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :My definition of "hitchhiking" is car-specific. < 1325929415 521015 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did he hitchhike in a car which then went on a ferry or something? < 1325929423 884410 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :a car which went on a train which went through a tunnel < 1325929430 711494 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, I'll grant it. < 1325929430 867739 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what you said is also an option < 1325929432 218418 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I picked up a hitchhiker for a short distance once. My grandfather got very upset when he heard about that and told me that all hitchhikers are murderers. < 1325929447 452545 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially in the US. < 1325929450 200230 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: At least you know how to become a murderer now. < 1325929459 191700 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :an especially murderer < 1325929464 715518 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well in the US if you don't have your own car then you're pretty much a terrorist < 1325929469 499856 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Without even breaking any laws! < 1325929505 997753 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-65.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I find that pretty amusing, considering we're heading down to 60s levels of violent crime. < 1325929535 301689 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-65.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And people hitchhiked all the time in the 60s, I'm led to understand. < 1325929565 731114 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't mind my attorney, he's just admiring the shape of your skull < 1325929582 607438 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is a very nice skull < 1325929601 196252 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-65.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would make a very nice glass. < 1325929662 521691 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hitchhiking: trading a cheap or free ride and the convenience of a stranger with the risks of being robbed, beaten, raped, kidnapped, brainwashed or murdered < 1325929690 634596 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :stranger convenience < 1325929699 10667 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's part of the thrill < 1325929701 349744 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah in the 60's the CIA was going around kidnapping and brainwashing people < 1325929712 344471 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is hitchhiking addiction a thing < 1325929745 616684 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kind of like skydiving or drugs but < 1325929749 358551 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :more cars?? < 1325929768 10867 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :speaking of, is skydiving addiction a thing < 1325929773 749586 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is sky a thing < 1325929800 720388 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kind of like hitchhiking or drugs but < 1325929801 924207 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :more sky < 1325929804 299697 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and diving?? < 1325929805 250203 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1325929808 262814 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's owned by rupert murdoch < 1325929823 779740 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: the trouble is that some would say skydiving lacks any utility.. and they might be right < 1325929835 731219 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i use skydiving to get to work < 1325929848 604322 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-65.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: Fun is a form of utility. < 1325929899 353651 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i use fun to get to work < 1325929899 967873 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :1440x900 is so much nicer than 1336x768 < 1325929906 913423 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1325929922 957216 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mock me and my tiny screens will you < 1325929938 600376 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just funny because i've been agonizing over that difference < 1325929950 165791 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and decided it wasn't significant ;P < 1325929955 83678 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you made the wrong choice < 1325929973 127851 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like i'm always scrolling around and resizing things and shit on the smaller resolution < 1325929983 960348 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 1440x900 is just enough to make that irrelevant < 1325929987 10696 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the higher dpi is nice too < 1325929993 79264 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1325930005 453335 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why are you people using these tiny resolutions? < 1325930008 320293 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a thinkpad x200s and i decided "upgrading" to the x220 would give me basically a slightly worse machine < 1325930015 35724 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :1920x1080 is, like, the bare minimum, man. < 1325930015 194687 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I used to think the same thing! < 1325930016 25987 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :except, i broke the lcd on my x200s :/ < 1325930025 906882 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :then I got a computer which I can move about freely and put on my lap and shit without even thinking about it < 1325930034 726329 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I use one of those too. < 1325930035 675079 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-250-115.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325930035 993518 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's really liberating for some weird reason < 1325930042 681364 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :15.6", 1920x1080 < 1325930046 817100 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: "Without thinking about it" is a low threshold. < 1325930061 958685 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think about it. < 1325930068 237046 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-250-115.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Have you considered getting a 7 year old monitor? Like, 1920x1200? < 1325930069 627832 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have, what, 1680x1050? oops. < 1325930069 784061 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe that just means I'm slow-witted. < 1325930080 724949 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-250-115.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Says I from a 1440x900 monitor. < 1325930084 174716 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It takes a lot more to move a 15.6" laptop than a lightweight ~13" laptop, even if you don't consciously think about it. < 1325930092 796634 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :thinking is hard < 1325930092 953273 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: That would be rather heavier than my computer. < 1325930097 230772 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Agreed. < 1325930103 358017 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: On the other hand this is my only computer. < 1325930109 723523 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-250-115.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Leaving computer is hard < 1325930114 805305 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Me too. Well, no, there's the 1336x768 one. < 1325930123 284004 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :leaving computers is NP hard < 1325930125 717378 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also don't have an external monitor. < 1325930127 416955 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Go to bed. < 1325930129 41521 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Me too. < 1325930129 516998 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have.. five machines hooked up in my room < 1325930135 869688 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are good reasons for each one to exist, i swear! < 1325930136 25818 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :My entire life is on this 13" display. < 1325930143 620866 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-250-115.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: NEIN < 1325930143 779012 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, not entire life. < 1325930146 266993 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the parts that matter!! < 1325930161 949468 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Enumerate them. < 1325930169 38806 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :really < 1325930177 533055 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"1, 2, 3, 4, 5." < 1325930183 131509 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie wins. < 1325930189 957873 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Are the ThinkPad X-series machines nice, by the way? < 1325930197 89685 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, very nice < 1325930203 593279 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ISTR disliking them for some reason when I looked into them a few years ago. < 1325930207 799454 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-65.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1325930223 401173 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Istr. That's a name, isn't it? < 1325930243 32443 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It sounds like an assmbly mnemonic. < 1325930253 887682 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assmbly. < 1325930254 837712 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's a book of the bible. < 1325930270 163474 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :laptop, wireless bridge, desktop, media server, laser cutter controller < 1325930306 808197 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.google.co.uk/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=Wireless+bridge&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&redir_esc=&ei=IBcIT_LAJ4vY8QPAnIyeAQ#client=safari&rls=en&q=Wireless+bridge&oe=UTF-8&redir_esc=&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&tbo=u&tbm=shop&source=og&sa=N&tab=wf < 1325930317 672990 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :How much crap can Google put in one URL? < 1325930318 623336 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks google < 1325930329 141829 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are you getting at sir < 1325930338 184627 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: You have a computer without a good reason to be a computer. < 1325930339 847492 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1325930350 554684 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, if I owned one of these I would consider it to be a computer < 1325930360 888360 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I can disprove that. < 1325930368 482626 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, maybe they are dumber than i think < 1325930370 691762 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is no possible way one of those causes as much pain and upset as any computer does. < 1325930376 870625 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only a computer can do that. < 1325930381 23469 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wireless bridges are real people so they can't be computers < 1325930385 456536 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :my wireless bridge "computer" provides very little pain and upset < 1325930393 922246 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an old netbook running debian < 1325930399 238817 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: That just means you're so drowning in computer-related pain and upset you don't even feel it. < 1325930406 602698 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try throwing some out of the window. < 1325930411 245748 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's required basically zero maintenance since i set it up < 1325930415 684166 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :from Gk. biblion "paper, scroll," the ordinary word for "book," originally a diminutive of byblos "Egyptian papyrus," possibly so called from Byblos (modern Jebeil, Lebanon), the name of the Phoenician port from which Egyptian papyrus was exported to Greece (cf. parchment). Or the place name might be from the Greek word, which then would be probably of Egyptian origin. < 1325930421 277589 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, you're right < 1325930429 542094 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :" I think it's a book of the bible." < 1325930430 115354 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only way to be sure i'm free of computer-related pain is to replace it all with macs < 1325930437 413190 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heck no. < 1325930442 845193 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That will approximately quadruple your pain. < 1325930447 288922 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't know, after you stick OpenWRT on one and start to break things on it a bit, I'm sure it can generate a respectable amount of pain, if not quite real-computer levels. < 1325930457 257897 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: That's turning it into a minicomputer. < 1325930465 511453 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe "minicomputer" < 1325930473 175129 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-222-28.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325930474 500598 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could also rip it apart and shove computer parts into it; that doesn't make the original thing a computer. < 1325930475 284920 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i'm running a vax emulator on my WRT54G < 1325930480 451487 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Who isn't? < 1325930489 826889 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: ? < 1325930499 513367 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-250-115.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1325930500 146210 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :etymology of bible < 1325930500 339131 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map succ "vms" < 1325930501 99036 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "wnt" < 1325930505 84594 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wnt. < 1325930505 996669 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would you prefer "scroll of the bible"? < 1325930513 484907 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is bibble formed < 1325930517 232465 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: HEY THAT ONE'S MINE < 1325930522 559830 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was thinking "book of the book" < 1325930560 973586 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: In particular, a book of the third of the three books of the bible, which is known as "the writings". < 1325930562 81537 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway, I already had the netbook, so using it thus cost me $0, whereas the devices you linked cost > $0 < 1325930567 173770 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and as i'm unemployed, my time has rather low value < 1325930589 45633 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Ohh, you have an even better solution. Throw away *all* your computers, then you won't need the bridge thingy. < 1325930589 837503 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That latter sentence isn't really true. < 1325930595 734044 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1325930643 29256 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one can always reference a book in the bible codex book < 1325930684 65499 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forgot to mention that it was a scroll. < 1325930712 839022 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but nobody objected to "laser cutter controller"... < 1325930718 166106 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would you need a bridge? What are you doing? < 1325930727 861151 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, you control a boat with a laser? < 1325930728 972433 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :how? < 1325930730 397590 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :accessing the internet < 1325930742 155321 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Well, that sounds like it produces significantly more fun than any pain it could cause. < 1325930743 165591 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, well sure but usually most people don't need bridges to do so < 1325930749 493408 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Do you ever just feed it a random bitstring to see what happens? < 1325930753 866357 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1325930757 821791 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Maybe the next thing it cuts... will be ME." < 1325930781 872244 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I hear elliott has a bridge to sell you. < 1325930789 943095 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's made out of @. < 1325930791 960693 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, my Internet connection is via roommates' wireless router < 1325930803 482354 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, so just connect by the wlan? < 1325930806 235651 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :several of those machines have no wireless hardware < 1325930812 20045 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does kmc know what @ is? < 1325930818 402920 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, some nethack shit < 1325930818 561064 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone truly know what @ is? < 1325930819 818357 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : but nobody objected to "laser cutter controller"... <-- please tell me this refers to the boat type known as cutter :/ < 1325930823 785326 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1325930825 488004 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a boat < 1325930826 597759 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, it's some nethack shit. < 1325930827 706871 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm on a fucking boat < 1325930836 503488 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc drives his boat with his computer on his boat. < 1325930842 427824 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, great! < 1325930850 693832 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you may be interpreting the word "bridge" in a more precise technical sense than i meant < 1325930873 890797 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Transatlantic bridge. < 1325930875 965759 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Can you imagine going through life not knowing what @ is? < 1325930888 473936 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No. I cannot imagine it. < 1325930895 630092 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The suffering kmc must be undergoing. < 1325930898 518656 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is a Debian GNU/Linux machine with one wireless and one wired Ethernet interface, the former in Managed mode, serving DHCP and DNS on the latter, with NAT routing between the two < 1325930907 377620 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: One day you will be at peace. < 1325930911 333526 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1325930917 349392 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Peace of @. < 1325930933 740127 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You should write an @ tutorial. < 1325930936 413854 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Full of analogies. < 1325930941 292045 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ is like an @. < 1325930948 417429 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The basic operations on @s are @ and @. < 1325930950 600550 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ : @ -> @ < 1325930951 235964 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: A-ha! < 1325930959 628066 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ : @ < 1325930959 786713 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now we know that what @ expands to starts with a vowel! < 1325930964 176943 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or at least a glottal stop. < 1325930965 959480 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Um, dude. < 1325930971 86736 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't know that. < 1325930974 568122 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"an @" < 1325930975 360129 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's meant to be an intentionally-bad tutorial. < 1325930979 981996 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're not necessarily well-written. < 1325930982 882088 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sheesh. < 1325930985 459379 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-( < 1325931108 507652 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hilarious < 1325931131 2686 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Do you seriously not know what @ is? < 1325931137 229562 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I understand it's cool to deny The Knowledge. < 1325931140 587679 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1325931142 921695 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :srsly < 1325931146 793887 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :h < 1325931147 269776 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how < 1325931151 808070 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Okay. You know how computers suck? < 1325931160 901993 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ changes all that; with @, they only mostly suck. < 1325931166 7674 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently @ is "at"... but that would be presumptuous < 1325931173 717964 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, go on < 1325931179 409796 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-222-28.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: @ is basically the embodiment of elliott's hubris. < 1325931184 848247 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: No, that's you. < 1325931188 716410 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-222-28.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least, it would be if it existed. < 1325931190 251390 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ is a miracle drug < 1325931194 622633 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1325931196 205383 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-222-28.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*gasp* I don't exist! < 1325931201 576423 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PART :#esoteric < 1325931201 893879 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-222-28.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*disappears* < 1325931203 956162 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest: hi, does chocolate still contain sugar? < 1325931206 328718 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :aw < 1325931212 99968 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: You know how computers are all imperative and ugly and shit? < 1325931222 475998 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, like, buggy, and shit. < 1325931224 677591 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ changes all that! < 1325931228 508888 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're only mostly buggy. < 1325931240 676955 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :go on < 1325931247 751778 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, that not enough for you? < 1325931268 733437 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You're not very good at this. < 1325931281 465606 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I estimate that kmc currently harbours 0 negative thoughts about @. < 1325931346 855923 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: @ is an environment thingy. < 1325931358 642781 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: elliott was just imitating your use of "an @" i think < 1325931366 338735 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Mostly consisting of a runtime system. < 1325931435 97502 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastelog an @ < 1325931444 455905 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol.. < 1325931457 127335 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:02:28 is there any good tutorials/blogs on the Store comonad? < 1325931465 139540 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: What is it with people and wanting Store comonad tutorials lately? < 1325931473 575672 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.24714 < 1325931487 763387 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1325931514 927202 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :can someone fix " `pastelog an @ " for me < 1325931522 805932 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea why it doesn't work. < 1325931533 73793 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1325931542 868832 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`presentelog < 1325931547 276993 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: presentelog: not found < 1325931556 348787 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's probably not caused by a @ < 1325931563 983331 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastelog deep breath < 1325931576 933799 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.22681 < 1325931606 282615 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastelog breath < 1325931614 141805 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.19658 < 1325931689 542778 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you just look at the logs? < 1325931698 217399 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1325931707 91683 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol @ how does mouthbreathing make your teeth crowded. < 1325931711 92252 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you search them online? < 1325931739 233973 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastelog inhale < 1325931746 486288 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.21914 < 1325931747 869295 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think what shachaf means is, how to overcome [too many lines; stopping] ? < 1325931787 751475 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't. < 1325931793 930429 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's there to stop a timeout. < 1325931795 407070 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: Well, ideally I don't want my search to be logged publicly. < 1325931799 289596 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tough. < 1325931802 256786 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohh < 1325931803 538859 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1325931807 274203 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Download the logs yourself if you must. < 1325931816 654710 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looked up: how to search esoteric logs online < 1325931822 336079 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't. < 1325931830 816212 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looked up: esoteric goats < 1325931835 902430 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION goat < 1325931847 287668 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I think kmc has lost all interest in @. < 1325931855 112959 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just like you, elliott. < 1325931868 406347 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1325931872 705846 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastelog @ < 1325931876 841915 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.3499 < 1325931895 710784 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :2003-07-25.txt:03:21:16: -!- andreou changed the modes of #esoteric: +b *!*@bespin.org < 1325931895 866974 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :2003-07-25.txt:03:25:04: -!- andreou changed the modes of #esoteric: +b clog!*@* < 1325931895 867177 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :2003-07-26.txt:03:28:36: HATE HATE SYSAD@$%!$%!#$!@#$@#NO CARRIER < 1325931896 820359 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :SamB used to be in here? < 1325931897 164245 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What. < 1325931901 178214 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Yes. < 1325931905 701614 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't he a #python guy? < 1325931911 358071 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think we had a lot of #python guys in the olden day.s < 1325931912 363280 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :days. < 1325931913 155844 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :He is? < 1325931917 219865 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not necessarily. < 1325931920 201204 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was just a random guess. < 1325931921 263873 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's certainly a #haskell person. < 1325931924 11135 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or was. < 1325931924 962138 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1325931925 488008 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :SamB_XP < 1325931928 233743 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably just that, then. < 1325931935 562969 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :edwardk has been in here a few times too. < 1325931939 56009 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And he's British, so you probably know him. < 1325931943 849887 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Before he MONOPOLISED THE HASKELLOSPHERE. < 1325932043 618045 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastelog haskell < 1325932047 559544 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.13599 < 1325932072 383612 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :2005-07-26.txt:07:13:31: it's written in haskell, I compiled it using ghc, usage is bf2c < brainfuck-source > c-source. no options. < 1325932073 338014 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh! < 1325932077 256443 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if _he_ is the author of that compiler. < 1325932160 912144 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:14:24: -!- andreou has joined #esoteric. < 1325932161 107257 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:20:35: erm < 1325932161 107457 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:20:43: anyone has halflife/counterstrike serial or keygen? < 1325932162 508663 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:20:46: pleeeaaazeeee ;p < 1325932164 480261 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:22:13: -!- andreou has quit (). < 1325932166 855848 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Did you know our channel used to be great? < 1325932193 992584 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You think you've got it bad? < 1325932197 7122 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try #nethack < 1325932230 400813 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, right now or in general? < 1325932236 56320 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: To fully appreciate my statement, /cs info #esoteric and examine the "founder" field. < 1325932258 181916 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, wow < 1325932261 184261 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :13:30 -!- Irssi: Unknown command: cs < 1325932268 128592 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :/msg chanserv < 1325932271 346637 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, yes. < 1325932271 502590 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, try /msg chanserv < 1325932271 979880 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :womp womp < 1325932278 415974 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, are you sick of #haskell too < 1325932296 466397 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Sometimes. < 1325932304 745222 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not enough to leave it, so far. < 1325932314 201846 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are your complaints < 1325932316 642298 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't do /msg chanserv < 1325932327 822051 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not going to get any better unless moderation steps up. < 1325932328 139412 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :do /^msg chanserv < 1325932335 659274 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: what's the difference? < 1325932336 944644 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but really make an alias for it < 1325932347 964048 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :/^msg doesn't open a new window < 1325932365 801044 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But what if I want a new window? < 1325932369 965176 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you're bad < 1325932385 733133 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: It's full of people who don't know what they're talking about talking to other people who don't know what they're talking about. < 1325932387 793566 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastelog < 1325932391 484084 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1325932394 637591 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: that's in irssi? ^msg is an unknown command according to my client < 1325932397 297520 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Spreading general nonsense back and forth with very little signal. < 1325932400 698840 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: yeah < 1325932402 483841 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.19986 < 1325932405 920061 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OMFG THIS GUY KEEPS PROPOSING < 1325932410 962663 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"READABILITY IMPROVEMENTS" < 1325932411 121415 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :in any case, chanserv didn't respond anyway < 1325932415 157453 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :THAT INEVITABLY MISUSE BULLETED LISTS TERRIBLY < 1325932416 234683 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :LIKE < 1325932423 174638 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not always the case, but when the channel reaches a critical mass of nonsense it gets pretty annoying. < 1325932424 171476 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the < 1325932436 930276 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, it doesn't seem that bad... any question will get about 8 answers, 6 of which are correct / useful < 1325932442 718564 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the fuck does that mean :D < 1325932450 704585 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also the general IRC thing where people ask the same questions over and over and over again. < 1325932452 447529 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: http://ompldr.org/vYzQ2NA < 1325932456 235009 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look at this shit! < 1325932463 250404 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SOMEONE TEACH THIS GUY WHAT BULLETED LISTS ARE FOR < 1325932470 851112 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And people who are bad at asking questions are overrepresented in terms of channel volume. < 1325932486 293110 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, wouldn't it be great if someone made a wiki page with the frequently-asked questions and standard answers, which can be edited and improved < 1325932491 784390 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION not bitter, I swear < 1325932506 226568 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I thoroughly approve of your efforts! < 1325932511 465151 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: And crowd-sourced it, and gave incentives for doing so. < 1325932511 821517 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks shachaf < 1325932514 989222 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I even made some comments once, if I remember correctly. < 1325932522 582006 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And called it, I dunno, Fencepost Error. < 1325932523 298919 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what incentives do you propose < 1325932525 239708 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Going so far as to edit it myself is, y'know... < 1325932526 191548 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Segmentation Fault. < 1325932530 50456 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lolz i get it < 1325932542 329857 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :General Protection Fault < 1325932592 772751 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :A nice way to do it might be basically having a big string -> SO answer mapping. < 1325932608 19696 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The idea being that you cherry-pick well-worded questions and good answers and can just grep it whenever a predictable question comes up. < 1325932610 30403 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, if I get enough points on Stack Overflow, maybe Joel Spolsky will hire me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! < 1325932613 392512 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! < 1325932618 325520 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!123 < 1325932619 376968 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Then you'd have to work for Joel Spolsky. < 1325932633 669526 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastelog < < 1325932636 223286 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, he understands that I value free soda higher than respect or a paycheck < 1325932637 212868 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.20792 < 1325932643 746860 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Hmm... me too. < 1325932657 136777 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: A person in another channel I'm in is StackOverflow user #13 < 1325932666 532883 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, wow, you're internet famous < 1325932670 975334 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Chris Jester-Young is, like, the worst, man. < 1325932671 292242 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: TOTALLY < 1325932678 704227 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Why? < 1325932684 57699 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I dunno, I just keyed in the number. < 1325932689 230757 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...This channel happens to be #stackoverflow. < 1325932690 498044 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf, chanserv's response ended up in the #haskell window < 1325932709 371210 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: chanserv responses go wherever :P < 1325932713 131679 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :since they're notices < 1325932732 3320 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, in many clients notices ends up in a channel where that person who sent it happens to be < 1325932735 979268 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kind of stupid < 1325932737 825007 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Well *I'm* Stack Overflow user #1097181! Take that! < 1325932744 143199 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :IMO they should go into a separate notice tab < 1325932745 252036 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or suc < 1325932747 313441 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :such* < 1325932754 401773 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :since I'm not reading anything that happens in #haskell, it was just not very useful for the response to end up there < 1325932765 338286 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know the issue < 1325932772 225718 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :2003-01-19.txt:06:09:05: yay, nothing at all. < 1325932779 345835 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: NOT AS COOL AS STACKOVERFLOW USER "MOMAN" < 1325932781 272461 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :but indeed ChanServ is in #haskell and not in any other freenode channel I'm in < 1325932859 92377 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastelog http < 1325932863 598168 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.24538 < 1325932944 102295 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, anyway I think the cluefulness of the average #haskell answer is pretty high < 1325932955 960895 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is more than everyone has their own pet way of explaining everything < 1325932961 670772 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they trip all over each other trying to do it < 1325932968 609869 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am quite good at devising `pastelog queries < 1325932975 491195 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then get derailed in endless arguments over terminology and teaching strategy < 1325932980 788374 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its on my CV < 1325932980 947246 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course this is what i did too < 1325932983 480618 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i got sick of it < 1325933017 435791 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: That's part of the problem, I agree. < 1325933029 361574 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::o < 1325933042 176158 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I just call things that aren't my pet theory "nonsense". < 1325933048 10085 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastelog changed the topic < 1325933053 133486 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.11439 < 1325933070 900874 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I don't think it's just that. < 1325933078 271408 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the answers are skewed by a heavy dose of politics < 1325933086 435200 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Politics? < 1325933096 26189 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"you don't really want regex / an IDE / a debugger, those things are for Java weenies, that's why we don't have them" < 1325933112 797627 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think one problem with #haskell is that there are a lot of well-intentioned good Haskell programmers who aren't any good at explaining things or maybe hold some weird unpopular Haskell-related view (and might not even know it's weird), and if they engage a newbie enough at an early stage they kinda work that worldview into their subsequent questions, and so everyone gets really confused trying to decode their warped newbiespeak. < 1325933112 953827 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hi < 1325933118 752982 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I could be imagining that. < 1325933125 702646 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no that's the impression I've gotten. < 1325933130 413185 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1325933149 183578 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, do you think the monad tutorial analogies are an example of that? < 1325933155 465889 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: definitely < 1325933194 334176 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Occasionally someone asks "what are monads?" and people go into the standard "keep reading LYAH" talk but someone says "I wrote a tutorial about monads: " and the newbie goes "oh, thanks, I'll read that!" because it sounds more concrete. < 1325933206 976959 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1325933207 928133 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know how you could solve that other than punishing linking monad tutorials, which would probably be unpopular. < 1325933227 682925 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically we need to divide people into questioners and answerers and ban answerers who step out of the party line. :p < 1325933240 377676 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also there is too much hype about monads, so people want to read A Monad Tutorial rather than just some chapter in the book < 1325933247 282178 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they want to read it way too early < 1325933284 781115 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'll be really great when we switch to a different primary system for modelling effects and can finally have people not ask about monads any more. < 1325933312 97255 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think most of the people who claim to "know Haskell" are very far from being able to write large, practical software in Haskell < 1325933330 964662 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I think #haskell would be basically impossible to police effectively without coming across as fascist, because it's essentially an undistinguished muddle where everyone gets a completely equal voice, and there's a heavy IRC culture of only banning for outright abusive behaviour. < 1325933335 363368 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that most of the people who can do the latter don't hang out on IRC < 1325933345 946580 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's probably a jerk / elitist thing for me to say, but there you go < 1325933350 797290 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just too large to rely on the fact that most people active are experienced. < 1325933377 374063 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so what if you started a new channel, #haskell-fascists, with explicit policies < 1325933379 511917 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Hey, my version of that would probably include names. Although that's also the reason I wouldn't say it. < 1325933406 768120 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :blame allocation is always difficult < 1325933410 763666 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes, a spinoff with more tightly enforced rules would be nice, but (a) nobody will go there, because it's not #haskell; (b) it'd be really hard to gain momentum — "go here and we'll be dicks about your answering!". < 1325933434 56262 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the hope is to lure the burnt-out veterans < 1325933440 359250 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :first < 1325933465 495643 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION would join such a channel. < 1325933465 970917 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i don't think it would work < 1325933470 541159 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Could you stop it devolving into veteran chit-chat before it comes useful? It's one of the cliquiest initial seed groups you could pick, even if it's the best from a long-run POV. < 1325933471 651295 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it may not even be a good idea anyway. I don't think it would be a place with a good channel culture. < 1325933472 443679 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, with me, that's not saying much. < 1325933495 285869 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think most people just don't care that much, because they have better things to do with their time anyway < 1325933515 492075 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: #haskell doesn't really have a culture any more, beyond the constant bouts of regulars joking. < 1325933517 299754 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i really don't < 1325933523 424386 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1325933529 826751 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :When you reach a certain mass you have to be utilitarian about what the channel is trying to achieve, and it's not social. < 1325933535 889705 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think one big problem is the internet < 1325933536 46008 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i can keep helping people learn haskell with low commitment and low stress to me < 1325933538 864536 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :then i wanna keep doing that < 1325933545 527513 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the internet is surely bad for haskell < 1325933556 137279 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely. < 1325933556 613454 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sometimes wonder what brings some of the people in #haskell to #haskell. < 1325933567 106195 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell programmers probably are best left to code in relative isolation < 1325933573 989128 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at workplaces < 1325933594 39242 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, on the contrary, I think #haskell is essential because they don't fucking write down all the important shit you need to know < 1325933604 203066 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I think transmitting some minor misunderstandings through a question-answer method of learning are to be expected. This isn't a phenomenon unique to Haskell, but it may be more problematic because there's a lot of information to be wrong about. < 1325933627 303672 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Except for over and over and over again in IRC-sized snippets. < 1325933628 429132 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I get plenty of incorrect information from people on #perl < 1325933629 958214 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: It's not minor understandings, it's that almost every question turns into a definitions debate. < 1325933638 157602 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I see. < 1325933641 399776 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: the trouble here is that most people learn regular languages by buying books at a bookstore, bringing it home.. and doing it < 1325933647 266888 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which would be OK, if anyone ever conceded, but they don't, because everyone thinks they're #1 enlightened Haskell thinker. < 1325933649 802035 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's happened once with me on #perl as well. it was silly. < 1325933655 414271 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or borrowing library books < 1325933659 795923 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how to write Haskell code: 1) write some code 2) shit don't work 3) lurk #haskell for two years until you see an off-hand description of the thing you are missing < 1325933676 751982 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is #1 enlightened Haskell thinker. < 1325933678 38575 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :im sorry to bring this to light.. < 1325933682 827871 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Anyway, I think the situation is simply that IRC can't support effective support communities beyond a certain size. < 1325933687 506654 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but irc is not good for learning something < 1325933694 362123 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, and LYAH + RWH is still maybe half of what you need to know, imo < 1325933695 299151 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's helpful sometimes. < 1325933706 56820 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It relies essentially on human intervention to function correctly, but that's impossible beyond a certain volume, and the culture is biased against it. < 1325933706 692190 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : When you reach a certain mass you have to be utilitarian about what the channel is trying to achieve, and it's not social. < 1325933710 229864 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, metadiscussion. < 1325933714 672738 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: About #haskell. < 1325933738 888335 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: A real-time format optimised for discussion/learning would be an interesting thing. < 1325933750 96566 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1325933761 903727 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think SO handles the long-form Q&A stuff perfectly, but obviously its "chat" feature is just IRC with editing and Markdown, so that's worthless. < 1325933762 585020 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :we could call it "IRC but with more bots" < 1325933773 633400 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the false association between haskell and the internet < 1325933781 664444 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think this creates a lot of problems < 1325933785 78201 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: I think you really need something like separate discussions. < 1325933797 468330 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :A newbie asking a question should have their answer detached from the monad tutorial jokes going on concurrently. < 1325933812 890662 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the usual way to learn is to get a poorly written book on a topic.. read it.. go off halfcocked < 1325933832 726272 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then get corrected by people and taught again, more painfullly < 1325933847 700905 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-83-229.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325933851 692042 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION 's usual method of language learning is reading half a tutorial, getting bored, and then returning a year later to find out he can code competently in the language. < 1325933857 352598 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then it's the long haul of learning all the APIs. < 1325933863 788087 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1325933868 582516 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tutorials are dependant on the internet < 1325933888 601761 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe the internet is good for learning...... maybe < 1325933889 775644 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The cycle is a bit longer with Haskell :) < 1325933889 934079 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-83-229.as13285.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1325933892 886254 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that works when the language is just new syntax for another language you already know < 1325933906 212709 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hmmm yes that' a good idea. With a good interface it would be feasible. < 1325933915 646508 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Yeah, it's not a general-case thing. But it did get me started with Haskell. < 1325933943 991716 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I already had knowledge of Scheme and such, so half of YAHT + later half of LYAH were enough to brew into a basic working knowledge. < 1325933967 86112 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not convinced you can teach Haskell from the bottom-up. < 1325933973 34819 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think the reading a book and doing exercises can teach 80% of something.. and then irc could teach that last 20% < 1325933975 730059 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not to someone who already knows a language. < 1325933981 4741 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The temptation to analogise is just too much. < 1325933987 286361 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't remember what he read to understand monads. < 1325933993 863833 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :we need some sort of brainwashing drug < 1325934030 334790 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: analogizing isn't that damaging.. < 1325934039 50340 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, it is with Haskell. < 1325934045 243799 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :..the Haskell cult is seeking a brainwashing drug to indoctrinate their fanboys. I knew it! < 1325934053 366732 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :To be honest, just banning chat outright would probably make #haskell better than it is, but it'd be stifling. < 1325934063 822075 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean by 'chat' < 1325934065 782928 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't know Haskell, so you don't know the nature of the problem. < 1325934099 504712 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Up to the op's whim, of course :P But broadly "anything not in the process of furthering an actual question or discussion". < 1325934105 750261 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1325934106 593234 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly, itidus21 is a burrito. < 1325934113 46612 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: I think the problem in this case is a lack of easy to find literature that corresponds to exactly what you need to know.' < 1325934116 898934 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i really like that people in #haskell will talk about the language without having some concrete question at hand < 1325934124 476176 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting stuff comes out of that discussion < 1325934132 417121 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that's why I said it'd be stifling. < 1325934146 285964 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the endless injokes (like the one Sgeo just made) are probably a group-identity thing < 1325934155 76728 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think its well meaning but misguided views about the learning process.. you can't just drop analogies < 1325934159 919224 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell is the cool kids club in programming, of course < 1325934161 918406 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you could solve a good chunk of the issues #haskell has simply by having a discussion organisation system. < 1325934163 225037 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its like trying to drop subvocalization in order to speed read < 1325934167 743864 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so we all want to indicate we're in the club < 1325934182 130371 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The problem of discussions being relevant to each other is less than the problem of all discussions being mushed together into one gigantic stream. < 1325934183 86939 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-83-229.as13285.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1325934203 71346 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I mostly just do it for cheap jokes. < 1325934220 48452 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really want to be thought of as a Haskell programmer, although that probably doesn't stop anyone. < 1325934228 620125 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you're special < 1325934241 228252 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: You forgot shachaf! He also does it for the cheap jokes. < 1325934250 956053 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf is also special < 1325934256 684414 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :#haskell-special < 1325934259 513774 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1325934263 969784 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :was about to say that < 1325934281 458610 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"functor? I 'ardly knew 'er." < 1325934307 361465 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION good joke. original. < 1325934315 28568 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i admit that there should be a feeling that they are going down a rabbit hole as a world of counter-intuitive mathematical concepts descends upon them... but even then i think they are guided by analogy < 1325934331 233738 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :counter-intuitive? < 1325934336 545105 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mathematical? < 1325934348 622767 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, I'm special? < 1325934350 845206 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wasn't following. < 1325934352 220950 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Now would be a good time to note that itidus21 doesn't know a single lick of Haskell. < 1325934360 787281 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :farmers usually don't know math < 1325934361 580303 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i gathered as much < 1325934371 920209 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION esteemed member of joke-clique < 1325934373 187406 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21 seems a bit like zzo38 to me < 1325934376 275216 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :joklique < 1325934378 594984 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :from small info < 1325934380 676965 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is because you have to basically sit at a table for years before it can occur to you < 1325934388 530692 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is not intuitive < 1325934392 704475 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: What, you don't think zzo38 knows a lot? < 1325934402 624959 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, he clearly does < 1325934412 953433 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :He certainly does, it's just that he performs a completely different function on that knowledge to everyone else in the universe. < 1325934444 632889 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38 seems to know Haskell pretty well < 1325934453 495088 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well enough to identify all the ways it's unlike INFORM 7 or Magic: The Gathering < 1325934467 254072 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1325934482 39142 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you read one of his Haskell programs? < 1325934488 308607 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38 is my best #esoteric friend. < 1325934491 378039 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :!logs < 1325934585 637851 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't really know why hilbert cared about halting problem.. i don't know why turing and church cared about decision problem.. i don't know what neumann was after either < 1325934622 133436 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION blinks < 1325934629 141610 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in general, i don't know what the purpose of computation is < 1325934647 112201 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: See? #esoteric is the bets < 1325934648 111923 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :best. < 1325934649 712154 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :dude, what if we're, like, all a computer, man < 1325934653 770656 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and how i could convince a child why it's better than candy < 1325934676 493286 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION opens up emacs. "It's time... to make portal chess happen." < 1325934685 44660 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is doing it. He's making it happen. < 1325934685 862754 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it all just about making slave machines? < 1325934690 107447 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thinks "It's interesting" is a sufficient answer to why someone would be interested in a mathematical subject. < 1325934693 882215 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because we're lazy? :D < 1325934720 924729 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: If this darn log download wasn't going so slowly you'd have a wonderful zzoskell program right now. < 1325934727 298106 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1325934751 572366 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, do continuous chess and we won't hate you any more. < 1325934783 351322 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Sorry I don't feed off of the esteem given to me by peers. :> < 1325934791 850840 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also how would you even do that. < 1325934800 531393 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :floating point numbers? ha. ha. ha. < 1325934817 981859 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Coq, like I said. < 1325934819 250608 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :gonna sleep, ttyl < 1325934828 962285 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: But the log download just finished! < 1325934831 746584 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1325934840 705754 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: good night, sir. < 1325934843 684989 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :'night < 1325934873 35119 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: http://sprunge.us/bCgV < 1325934874 145661 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: anyway, portal chess is a much better game than continuous chess. < 1325934879 594870 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note the consistent use of whitespace. < 1325934917 426627 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel a little sick. < 1325934926 600907 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It is the Scottish Illness. < 1325934961 665666 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: did you ever give continuous chess a consistent, sane set of rules that are easy to play and decidable? < 1325934976 528061 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :FSVO 'easy to play' and 'decidable'. < 1325934976 684425 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Two of those principles go directly against the spirit of continuous chess. < 1325934985 929168 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmmm. sane , decidable? < 1325934994 610066 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :rules? < 1325934997 165885 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :easy? < 1325935000 231521 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :play? < 1325935008 952156 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not decidable, but that's not a problem for Coq. < 1325935021 561978 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You give it the proof that your move is correct. < 1325935067 685012 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if we say that the parts and the composites are both classed as objects, and that we can only perform operations on objects, and that all operations have equal weight, then there is the tradeoff that group operations are faster but clumsier < 1325935071 847226 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like that < 1325935101 118846 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dunno what this means < 1325935105 675124 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :me neither. < 1325935136 393374 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh.. if the operation on a ball is throwing < 1325935157 530856 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: uh this is probably a really dumb question. But how did I get a module structure where there's X and X.Y < 1325935158 484985 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :compared to uh.. moving each individual molecule of the ball < 1325935164 1407 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :do I just make X.hs and X/Y.hs ? < 1325935167 208343 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: ...yes < 1325935444 471560 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastelog terminal < 1325935463 266178 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.11767 < 1325935492 90813 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastelog itidus21 < 1325935499 202210 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1325935511 386933 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :71) I want to read about Paris in the period 1900-1914 not about the sexual preferences of a bunch of writers >.> < 1325935512 847783 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.5623 < 1325935528 508047 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1325935529 512211 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :680) I personally use while ("Cogito, ergo sum") { ... } because since that is a priori true, it is true in all possible universes, and therefore ensures maximum portability. < 1325935531 197386 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`delquote 71 < 1325935535 116174 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​*poof* I want to read about Paris in the period 1900-1914 not about the sexual preferences of a bunch of writers >.> < 1325935539 514017 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1325935539 989694 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1325935540 306786 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1325935546 723437 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :112) use "grep --crazy" < 1325935604 225557 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :306) Phantom_Hoover: mutation is often considerably harder for both humans and compilers can analyze it much more difficult' part that induces bloody vomit... huh....intriguing < 1325935604 875897 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :315) elliott: hey, thinking's easier than using the Internet < 1325935673 718339 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, fungot really has the right idea about mutation :) < 1325935673 877240 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: you really wish your side. < 1325935790 274764 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...and fungot just reminded me of a terrible book I read when I was young < 1325935790 433450 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: really, it is a free card in your sylladex. she is holding. it appears the red glass. you are starting to get agitated about < 1325935829 459959 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1325935847 412979 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.amazon.com/Wishing-Well-Making-Your-Every/dp/0786884738/ref=sr_1_14?ie=UTF8&qid=1325935808&sr=8-14 < 1325935852 592132 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I lapped it up when I was a kid < 1325935869 838971 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Along with lies from that terrible Ian Stewart. < 1325935906 663141 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was wiki'ing io and found http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Io_%28programming_language%29 < 1325935916 596760 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks curious < 1325935999 137967 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, am I not allowed to rant about an ending of an authors book without it being perceived as a slight against the author? < 1325936035 312172 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, interestingly I think portal chess pieces keep the same relative ordering of importance as they do in traditional chess < 1325936041 915979 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, no, the queen is lower than the two rooks < 1325936072 732098 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and someone on the discussion page of Io made some other wiki contribution "04:06, 27 May 2005 (diff | hist) Esoteric programming language ‎ (→External links: added link to esolang wiki) " < 1325936081 279518 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :small world < 1325936099 120960 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: I see you've discovered io < 1325936130 616406 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: yes i explained such quite formally < 1325936151 150007 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i guess what i left out is i was looking for input/output < 1325936365 867097 :cheater!~cheater@dslb-084-057-030-245.pools.arcor-ip.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325936423 918258 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the esolang homepage has been spammed again.. since i dont know how often this happens not sure of the urgency of announcing such < 1325936482 598183 :NihilistDandy!~NihilistD@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com < 1325936844 754120 :cheater!~cheater@dslb-084-057-030-245.pools.arcor-ip.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1325936925 49887 :cheater!~cheater@dslb-084-057-030-245.pools.arcor-ip.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325937061 803917 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t generate < 1325937062 596180 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `generate' < 1325937073 687683 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle generate < 1325937074 4503 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Graphics.Rendering.OpenGL.GL.Hints GenerateMipmap :: HintTarget < 1325937074 163142 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Graphics.Rendering.OpenGL.GL.Texturing.Parameters generateMipmap :: TextureTarget -> StateVar Capability < 1325937074 319474 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Graphics.Rendering.OpenGL.GLU.Quadrics GenerateTextureCoordinates :: QuadricTexture < 1325937600 970969 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a name for non-pawn chess pieces < 1325937632 354281 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh they're just called "pieces" < 1325937635 511693 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and pawns are called pawns. < 1325937741 505382 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Down with the arbitrary piece class divisions. < 1325937764 313360 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not a piece, I am a human being! < 1325937832 468145 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here, have some of PWP's pseudo-philosophy-bullshit on the topic of chess pieces on an unexpanded VIC-20: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O19SNCIf1rk -- four kilobytes should be enough for everyone, right? < 1325937869 198003 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is trying to figure out how to use records in a way that's not ugly < 1325937870 942106 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :This one sadly I think lacks the "speech synthesizer". < 1325937917 414818 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle (//) < 1325937917 574173 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Array.IArray (//) :: (IArray a e, Ix i) => a i e -> [(i, e)] -> a i e < 1325937917 731793 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Array (//) :: Ix i => Array i e -> [(i, e)] -> Array i e < 1325937956 603407 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-83-229.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325938025 201028 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats pretty cool < 1325938032 109611 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-83-229.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1325938191 491727 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1325938359 440232 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pawn = ?. board = ?. death = ?. ? = ?. < 1325938384 493456 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-83-229.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> '?' == '?' < 1325938385 284979 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : True < 1325938459 834708 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :? <- board -> ? < 1325938492 700911 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :board <- board -> board ? < 1325938509 22396 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah screw it < 1325938514 549985 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :board < 1325938540 185203 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :infinity <- board -> infinity ? < 1325938554 67073 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1325938555 794518 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :▒ < 1325938573 263400 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the trouble is it goes into 2 dimensions.. < 1325938586 472979 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :infinity <- board -> infinity ? ! < 1325938604 366293 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :infinity <- board -> infinity ! < 1325938629 371488 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :infinity X board X infinity ! < 1325938629 530050 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The board is just 6x6 in the bubbles. :/ < 1325938683 736274 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :! ▒ X infinity ! < 1325938756 565143 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :black pawn > white pawn?; knight > pawn?; queen or king(?) > knight? < 1325938771 971828 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :black pawn = white pawn!; knight = pawn!; queen or king(?) = knight! < 1325938817 159303 :Phantom___Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1325938857 332857 :Phantom___Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had some continuous chess thoughts which I have since forgotten < 1325938872 169556 :Patashu!Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I saw a continuous chess writeup once on chessvariants < 1325938902 390764 :Phantom___Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I saw that; it's a pale shadow of true continuous chess. < 1325938911 31209 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol... pawn + hand hand = pawn with hands < 1325938918 554425 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :▒ ⨯ ∞ and ♟♞♝♜♛♚♙♘♗♖♕♔ and so on; Unicode power. < 1325938925 447514 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-83-229.as13285.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1325938931 57729 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pawn with hands > pawn ! < 1325938940 928423 :Patashu!Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1325938942 990121 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pawn with hands > king !! < 1325938944 100191 :Patashu!Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :those all work in my current font! < 1325938953 176981 :Patashu!Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is... fixedsys excelsior! < 1325938980 605249 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: The chesspieces are in the old-and-well-established "miscellaneous symbols" block. < 1325939010 191369 :Phantom___Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :esoteric < 1325939012 955485 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!!! 4 pawns with hands > pyramid eye symbol !!! < 1325939062 877570 :Phantom___Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, the chessvariants continuous chess is merely space-continuous. < 1325939154 936048 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what am i? what is the world? what is death? what is what? ... what is beyond the board? infinity! are black pawns better than white pawns? are knights better than pawns? are kings better than knights? < 1325939175 804544 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :What have I done. < 1325939227 129736 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1325939269 396 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :black pawns are equal to white pawns! knights are equal to pawns! kings are equal to knights! pawns with hands are better than pawns. pawns with hands are better than kings. together, pawns with hands are unsurpassed. < 1325939284 646477 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats my translation < 1325939420 90406 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the matrix of chess :P < 1325939503 688928 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the fact that i could interpret all that without any text is kind of cool < 1325939510 702466 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :im impressed < 1325939595 19126 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, right, the thing I was trying to fix was the interaction between the capture and nonintersection rules. < 1325939625 498516 :Phantom___Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1325939707 755659 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-83-229.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325939728 849348 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the line between f(p) and p contains piece of the opposite colour, then either f(p) must lie on that piece or some other piece must capture it. < 1325939739 207823 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-83-229.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1325939747 492255 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This makes capture possible, as it happens. < 1325939781 373106 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: i don't understand why philosophy + retro gaming + symbols is so interesting < 1325939805 150677 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it is very cool < 1325939839 479910 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : This one sadly I think lacks the "speech synthesizer". < 1325939852 87978 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something something something speech recognition sucks? < 1325939861 443681 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think elliott's better at this than me. < 1325939864 14890 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Synthesis, not recognition! < 1325939865 321752 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes. < 1325939927 885844 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does PWP stand for? < 1325939955 473637 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh... "Pers' Wastaiset Produktiot", if I recall correctly. < 1325939998 698276 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finding cool stuff is easy enough. Viewing it is easy enough. Recognizing that it would be therefore a good thing to be involved in is easy enough. < 1325940019 756130 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The trouble is this other detail of trying to find a purpose for being involved. < 1325940049 912508 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The negative proof that X isn't necessarily the best use of your time. < 1325940060 597029 :elliott!~elliott@95.149.229.241 JOIN :#esoteric < 1325940086 986427 :elliott!~elliott@95.149.229.241 NICK :Guest84924 < 1325940103 154098 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guest554115, quick, say something nasty about speech recognition. < 1325940116 453994 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, you can try to measure it... If I did X would I regret spending my time that way. If I did Y would I regret it? < 1325940118 504690 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It's, like... uh, fi:perse = en:arse; fi:vastainen (adj.) = something like the anti-, in-, un- prefixes in English, and spelling it with 'w' makes it "old-fashiony", like Ye Olde Englishe; and fi:produktiot = en:productions. < 1325940171 676269 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speech recognition is for Finns. < 1325940175 699492 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you can try to measure and compare the regret of investing time in X compared to the regret of investing time in nothing. < 1325940177 618840 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE ULTIMATE INSULT. < 1325940184 669197 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: See http://pelulamu.net/pwp/ -- or maybe don't. < 1325940195 192234 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any time he uses technical terms, ask for their meaning. There are many countries, which take part in offshore web site style; the most well known are India, Russia, Ukraine, Romania, Philippines. It's also not a problem - you can make payment by credit card, PayPal, wire transfer, Western Union, etc. This will conserve you cash, time and effort in the long run. Here are some facts and figures from across the U. For the mil < 1325940195 351954 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lions of web surfers out there, your web style is their first impression of your business and your credibility. If you are shopping for web style quotes, don't forget to ask the web style vendor some simple issues: Do you grant client references? Will I be capable to edit my own web pages? Are the web sites you pattern search engine friendly? Is logo style incorporated in the web quote? How many pattern concepts and revisi < 1325940195 508203 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ons will you give? Avoid the Template Trap. The problem with Web templates is that they are closed systems. The big difference between advertising and not trading on the web, and being found or buried on page 15 of the search engine benefits, is know-how in building a search engine friendly site. < 1325940196 807486 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric : However, it's not a 100% guarantee. There are plenty of web designers offered. Executing your homework and asking the correct requests is significant to decide if they are correct for the job. What does your ongoing web site style say about your business? Does it portray a professional, reliable business? If not here's a few tips for finding and selecting a web designer. NJ Web Designer Other industries, like food processing < 1325940198 891382 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or construction, aren't so strict about academic qualifications, but they do have standards that have to be met - like health and safety or food hygiene standards. If that is the case, do you have the original graphic that can be emailed? It will be crucial to make use of that on your web site. Their promotion can inform you on how well they promote others. The key issue in web pattern is how to add value to the user's experience < 1325940200 834366 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :, how to make them feel that they truly got something out of browsing your web site. < 1325940202 754023 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric : The pages load easily, you thought. The more individuals you have to test your web site, the more thorough your benefits will be. If this is the case it's not a serious problem, although you could ask your web designer to precise them. A few minutes? It's regular if this is a Flash site simply because usually the overall site is loaded at one time, not only the home page; or it's a Flash intro which goes ahead entering the site an < 1325940204 773475 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :d also can load longer simply because of movie and sound. < 1325940206 896845 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Web designing as a profession is most benefited by this phenomenon. They read search benefits, news items, how-to articles and forums. You may get to realize some interesting facts. Designing a web site for search engines with clean code that utilizes cascading style sheets is important to getting your content indexed in the leading search engines, such as Google and Bing. NJ Web Design Also, the most eye-catching elements should < 1325940208 718752 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric : load first. 3) Kind of works Look attentively at each work in the portfolio. Regardless of whether your color theme turns out prosperous depends heavily on the first step Determining the style of your website. These firms are stuck in the past and are not as effectual as they pretend to be. < 1325940210 780938 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric : This details applies even whenever you are designing a personal website. Where do I start? you say. WebDesigners123 connects the Freelance Web Designer with Webmasters who need their services. I do my very best to discover as much as I can, each and every day. < 1325940215 717606 :Patashu!Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :pastebin motherfucker < 1325940218 134134 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH NO ELLIOTT AM BECOME SPAMBOT < 1325940253 51661 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: spam is sacred < 1325940259 480851 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps even every spam < 1325940295 614549 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:03:52: Here, have some of PWP's pseudo-philosophy-bullshit on the topic of chess pieces on an unexpanded VIC-20: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O19SNCIf1rk -- four kilobytes should be enough for everyone, right? < 1325940307 385485 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Oh, it's that viznut guy. I really like the aesthetic, though. < 1325940432 600554 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who's viznut? < 1325940433 206657 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-83-229.as13285.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1325940448 746721 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: The guy behind that one-line code music thing; or at least the maker of the videos. < 1325940451 6941 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Robotic Liberation would've probably been a "better" "introduction", it's just that the chess-piece discussion is what sparked the thing. < 1325940460 668395 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the author of that one bad demo I laughed at. < 1325940477 654886 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What was it? < 1325940477 813659 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Okay, it was probably quite impressive, technologically, for DOS.) < 1325940549 520860 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: He seems rather obsessed with the premise. < 1325940562 844848 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PWP ooh, it's NOTABLE. < 1325940564 238710 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice voice synth thing on a VIC-20 though. :p < 1325940566 21514 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i look forward to the day when haskell is turned to such things < 1325940576 408479 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reebuttic libera shun. < 1325940580 457616 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Or at least nobody has bothered to nominate for deletion.) < 1325940591 468728 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SdGkkp1aq8 is the aforementioned Robotic Liberation one. < 1325940621 857805 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I... know? < 1325940625 135470 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er. < 1325940626 85538 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ^ < 1325940630 767498 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: You're basically Phantom_Hoover. < 1325940634 609450 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :He asked for links, you get them. < 1325940647 46547 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, my upper half is, if I've understood correctly. < 1325940673 630257 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah, I moved that Phantom_Hoover back into Edinburgh quite some time ago. < 1325940693 678291 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, so now I'm just a half the fizzie I used to be. < 1325940883 227007 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guest84924: http://sprunge.us/JSZF hi criticize my Haskell code. < 1325940898 84537 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why are you deriving Typeable? < 1325940923 310104 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why are you deriving Ord for Piece? Why aren't you deriving Eq for Board? < 1325940932 314909 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am. < 1325940937 741389 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why are you using (Vector (Vector a))? < 1325940941 928831 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, -shrug- YOU NEVER KNOW YOU MAY NEED TYPEABLE < 1325940967 867758 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guest84924: because you told me to. < 1325940993 493500 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1325941017 103157 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're also using the wrong kind of Vector. < 1325941030 161227 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1325941117 485321 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :which Vector did you recommend? < 1325941148 189913 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: This is the one I mentioned above disliking: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1537t45xm8 < 1325941151 218791 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Storable. < 1325941194 764534 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll remove the Typeable since it's not really needed for anything. < 1325941208 623238 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: DYK: Scientists are propagandists who want to mechanise you? < 1325941217 724648 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just think "if I needed Typeable for a library type and it wasn't derived, that would be annoying." < 1325941220 32844 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Man, this is amazingly crap. < 1325941230 870639 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Note if all these routines are used simultaneously the data space might overflow. For serious floating point usage the large model might be needed." SDCC's float support is amusing. (They've also just stolen GCC floatlib's IEEE single-precision C code without optimizing them for their targets.) < 1325941237 350985 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: The one I just linked? It really is. < 1325941298 912359 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"We will never again let an algorithm make a decision for us!" < 1325941321 348752 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"How much change do I have?" "WE WILL NEVER LET ALGORITHMS MAKE DECISIONS FOR US" < 1325941326 387145 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Grep /Let me elaborate the setting/ http://countercomplex.blogspot.com/2011/09/new-propaganda-tool-post-apocalyptic.html if you want more BACKGROUND. < 1325941348 173377 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Nonono, brains aren't algorithmic, he makes that clear in the uploader comments. < 1325941352 220394 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guest84924: I imported Vector.Storable and got this http://sprunge.us/fYPP < 1325941355 670544 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :am I missing a deriving somewhere? < 1325941365 811566 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: You're missing the fact that I told you not to use Vector (Vector a). < 1325941386 175397 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :?? < 1325941421 923828 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you suggesting I use MVector? < 1325941426 874196 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1325941446 742624 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*(Vector (Vector a)). < 1325941454 746430 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you going to explain? or should I just guess at what you mean? < 1325941464 31018 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you said to use Storable vectors... < 1325941466 496847 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, hey, you removed the knights! < 1325941472 707090 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:55 Why are you using (Vector (Vector a))? < 1325941474 658573 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:55 Guest84924: because you told me to. < 1325941476 229206 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:56 No. < 1325941501 248312 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guest84924: I was referring to earlier when I asked what I should use to represent a chess board and you said "oh you probably want Map or Vector" < 1325941508 714113 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Hey, what's your opinion on STATE OF THE ART?!?!?! (I am emulate pundit: find topic claimed to be controversial by semi-reliable sources, slam in face of interviewee.) < 1325941520 767440 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :State of the art? < 1325941524 378619 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Please attempt the basic literacy required to distinguish (Vector a) and (Vector (Vector a)). < 1325941539 591219 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aykuVMf4uIQ < 1325941545 21891 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guest84924: okay, but why should I use a 1d vector to represent a 2-dimensional grid? < 1325941556 465377 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Because that gives you a contiguous region of memory. < 1325941595 477991 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, okay. < 1325941610 336120 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: what knights? < 1325941611 286854 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have to handle row/column indexing yourself; something like Vector is a more raw interface than C arrays. < 1325941622 666961 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, the ones that aren't in portal chess. < 1325941630 919620 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lame. those suck. < 1325941635 889248 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they're not in portal chess. < 1325941637 385219 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your original code used an array of pointers pointing to vectors which have an array of pointers pointing to boxed Maybe values which ... < 1325941643 78549 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they can only hop two squares! < 1325941651 95426 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW, wrap (Maybe PIece) so you can write a Storable instance for it. < 1325941651 728979 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :portals can hop THREE! yeah... stepping up the game. < 1325941665 481264 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guest84924: what do you mean by "wrap" < 1325941679 514877 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :newtype? < 1325941681 325824 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: newtype JesusChrist = JesusChrist (Maybe Piece) < 1325941701 860980 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie deftly avoids controversy by not responding. < 1325941756 772574 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guest84924: why do I need a newtype for that? < 1325941768 611316 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"so you can write a Storable instance for it." < 1325941772 819423 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1325941773 294185 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :why < 1325941773 967335 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you can put it in a storable Vector. < 1325941779 571263 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW, you need to import the vector module qualified. < 1325941797 76493 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm asking: why is it required to have a newtype in order to write an instance of Storable < 1325941817 33778 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you could write the instance directly, but (a) error-prone (b) requires FlexibleInstances (c) could overlap < 1325941824 540167 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1325941838 644236 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a) in that you could easily mistakenly use the instance elsewhere without intending to. < 1325941880 20844 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not really sure about this Storable stuff. It seems to require a lot of low-level information < 1325941909 130993 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :for what gain? a more efficient 8x8 grid. < 1325941918 278607 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1325941920 975806 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Storable is trivial. < 1325941927 187627 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You just want to define a bijection to Word8. < 1325941945 329092 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :poke p Nothing = poke (0 :: Word8); poke p (Just Blah) = poke (1 :: Word8); ... < 1325941948 991362 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact < 1325941956 934824 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :poke p a = poke (toEnum a :: Word8) < 1325941958 993030 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the obvious for peek < 1325941965 496298 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1325941987 675208 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :sizeOf = const 1 -- ?? < 1325941995 189379 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1325941997 650552 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's all you need. < 1325942006 804285 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...oh < 1325942027 380056 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's much easier than I thought it was. < 1325942078 742910 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Robotic Liberation is now stuck in my head, I'm annoyed. :/ < 1325942081 772831 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrapping a Maybe in a newtype seems marginally annoying though.. < 1325942087 455802 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guest84924: I don't have much of an opinion; I mean, I recall I thought it looked nice, no matter how video-capturey it was. < 1325942099 370261 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: You're writing your own indexing functions anyway. < 1325942102 754164 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can unwrap it at that point. < 1325942117 941009 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Neutrality! What a rare thing from a fizzi. < 1325942119 67629 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie. < 1325942143 181073 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no TOPIC #esoteric :Official revolting channel of the frequent stupid topic change plurality, the Prequel: The Attack of the Nerds | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1325942186 917782 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe if I'd have "been there" I'd have more of an opinion, but I don't think I even knew about any demosceney stuff in 1992, really. < 1325942205 42950 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guest84924: oh hey I've got a great name for my newtype. Cell. WOW < 1325942207 129454 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so good. < 1325942209 507349 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so. descriptive. < 1325942214 262459 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1325942215 213556 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Square < 1325942216 69510 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1325942219 631232 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cell. < 1325942219 946951 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Square is more chess-like < 1325942224 554458 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know, sounds a bit imprisoning < 1325942233 271157 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I guess Square is more correct. < 1325942262 953951 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been having difficulty naming all of these things < 1325942284 842079 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they're very similar. I wasn't sure if I wanted to call Board something like GameState and then s/GridSpace/Board/ < 1325942300 635863 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but GameState is, bleh. < 1325942302 19064 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sqoor, Buurd. < 1325942328 224345 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION almost named fillColumns philCollins until he realized a) that < 1325942338 525161 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Board should definitely just be a board. < 1325942341 583589 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1325942346 916058 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :'s stupid b) he doesn't need that function < 1325942351 719489 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Also, it's rank and file these days, no? < 1325942355 830159 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :In modern commentary, the columns (called files) are labeled by the letters a to h from left to right from the white player's point of view, and the rows (called ranks) by the numbers 1 to 8, with 1 being closest to the white player, thus providing a standard notation called algebraic chess notation. < 1325942360 943618 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guest84924: ah, yes. < 1325942386 756937 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guest84924: for someone who's implementing a chess variant, I don't know very much about actual chess. < 1325942401 190043 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ditto, but I have Wikipedia to help me be a snarky asshole. < 1325942411 691200 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guest84924: anyway it makes sense conceptually that the board also includes these invisible loop sets. < 1325942416 756238 :Jafet1!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1325942423 507340 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should remove the hidden state. < 1325942439 584605 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the... loop sets? < 1325942450 604424 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need those. :P < 1325942455 552663 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make them board state! < 1325942458 892530 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use colours or some shit. < 1325942467 71417 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh you mean visually. yes they'll be displayed. < 1325942471 406004 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're "invisible" in the physical game. < 1325942486 193788 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I mean they hsould be part of the piece type. < 1325942521 142238 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, that's a possibility however I think (but I'm not sure) it will be easier to work with them if they're stored as a set < 1325942530 771731 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because multiple loop squares are associated with one another.\ < 1325942544 954314 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1325942552 600834 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :a move can remove an entire set of loop squares and I don't feel like calculating what those are < 1325942557 659529 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :easier to just have a set of them that I chop off. < 1325942626 814099 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also they have properties as a set that I haven't added yet < 1325942681 513150 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :such as a direction of clockwise and counterclockwise for the unidirectional loops, and "oscillating" I guess for the bidirectional case (I'll get around to encoding that later once I can see other things implemented) < 1325942737 917449 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, actually < 1325942749 940550 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could have the Loop squares have a direction. < 1325942772 465744 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then to build a collection of related loop squares I just follow the path based on directions. < 1325942782 722385 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something. < 1325942858 363391 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guest84924: oh one problem with your Storable instance is that Pieces are not actually Enums. < 1325942866 968148 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, I can't derive them as such < 1325942870 205631 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd have to write the instance. < 1325942878 577511 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just write your own instance, there's like 16 elements. < 1325942900 857803 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is a game a language? < 1325942903 77460 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :any way I can make that not tedious? < 1325942919 988698 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: If you think this is tedious, wait until you actually write something that isn't a type. < 1325942942 566927 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: a sequence of discrete moves could be viewed as a language, I think. < 1325942957 680390 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1325942960 296280 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the set of those moves < 1325942967 501695 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is a game a set of moves? :D < 1325942969 101401 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the program is a specific string of moves < 1325942977 905945 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: no it also has an underlying state. < 1325943000 787722 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hummm < 1325943013 138029 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guest84924: but really is there an easier way than "lol pattern matching 16 cases" < 1325943019 628063 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :jesus christ < 1325943024 582181 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok well you can obviously derive enum for piecetype < 1325943033 304388 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll let you figure out the basic arithmetic to handle the additional player field < 1325943034 889494 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in piece < 1325943038 218971 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :noep I tried earlier. but maybe it works suddenly now? < 1325943080 691441 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess in chess there is the question of whether to represent board state or piece state < 1325943102 890200 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: piecetype has 7 constructors. coord and enum already are enum < 1325943107 329305 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually oh < 1325943114 506569 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Portal is the only tricky one < 1325943118 642961 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1325943122 215959 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's trivial < 1325943124 475218 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :since the range is (8,8) < 1325943126 401292 :Patashu!Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 , Skype: patashu0 . < 1325943127 36861 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so use < 1325943127 830472 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t index < 1325943128 621297 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Ix a) => (a, a) -> a -> Int < 1325943168 346563 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guest84924: also I could do something horrible like data Rank = A | B | C ... < 1325943169 330216 :Jafet1!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1325943182 338980 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Data File = One | Two | ... -- bahahahahahah < 1325943187 968050 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, do it < 1325943190 741974 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :except F1 | F2 | ... < 1325943194 944002 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yeah < 1325943196 52451 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's better < 1325943196 210827 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :derive Enum, write Ix instance < 1325943199 282557 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :.... < 1325943204 403656 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :better than using Int < 1325943205 511266 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no I was just going to use my indexing function < 1325943213 930189 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ix is useful though because < 1325943214 723598 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t index < 1325943215 582570 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Ix a) => (a, a) -> a -> Int < 1325943215 738710 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :to abstract that < 1325943216 692122 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t range < 1325943217 484237 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Ix a) => (a, a) -> [a] < 1325943219 866108 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes < 1325943220 182832 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc. < 1325943236 600533 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm surprised Ix can't be derived from Enum < 1325943239 898892 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :with board state you could literally have 64 cells with the alphabet {"R", "N", "B", "Q", "K", "P", "r", "n", "b", "q", "k", "p", " "} < 1325943247 636132 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: noep < 1325943251 332425 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: it's more than Enum < 1325943256 543372 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: PORTAL CHESS IS MORE COMPLICATED THAN THAT < 1325943265 227901 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well portal chess yeah < 1325943280 619426 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but regular chess you could get away with it so long as you allowed for invalid moves to happen < 1325943312 715519 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought using Rank and File would be ridiculous but it actually kind of works nicely. < 1325943334 183939 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :except that arithmetic will be weird without a bunch of fromEnum stuff. < 1325943359 665325 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hmm the Rank is the number the file is the letter. < 1325943373 772169 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whats the deal with chess and not killing the king < 1325943377 307193 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean SERIOUSLY < 1325943387 29453 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)) < 1325943396 240306 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that will actually be one of the more difficult things to calculate in protal cehess < 1325943399 490276 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err capturing < 1325943403 23392 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because there are many weird capturing rules < 1325943434 766774 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example, if your two portals are facing each other and within capturing range of one another < 1325943435 84520 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nevermind im being very very dumb < 1325943442 774777 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the enemy king cannot be adjacent to those portals < 1325943472 928195 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because of the explosion rule where portals explode when they try to pass through each other. < 1325943478 177888 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1325943517 543809 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there actually a published ruleset for portal chess? < 1325943519 563453 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well.. in chess. suppose that you made the rule that you could capture the king.. < 1325943521 466263 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. < 1325943521 783228 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or continuous chess? < 1325943527 485258 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1325943531 561385 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, darn < 1325943533 533524 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :continuous chess happened like... yesterday? < 1325943539 798644 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1325943541 855076 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-83-229.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325943545 343357 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I have pretty much a definitive ruleset in my brain at the moment. < 1325943546 134689 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-83-229.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1325943553 210201 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-83-229.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My Latin vocab tester is going well < 1325943556 464065 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just... too lazy to write chess rules. that will be very boring. :P < 1325943578 754986 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, the rules of continuous chess aren't terribly complex. < 1325943623 61396 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, your Latin vocab tester? < 1325943631 527978 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guest554115: wait maybe this isn't a good idea. < 1325943667 567697 :elliott!~elliott@95.149.229.241 JOIN :#esoteric < 1325943673 394028 :elliott!~elliott@95.149.229.241 QUIT :Changing host < 1325943673 550625 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1325943675 311771 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: maybe using a Rank and File type isn't a good idea < 1325943684 540992 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also Rank and File are basically the same I could probably just make them one type. < 1325943714 436530 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fine, make one type < 1325943721 734273 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-83-229.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, it's more of a flashcards program < 1325943722 362867 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh but that's gross too < 1325943723 988079 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :DON'T KNOW IF WANT < 1325943729 434872 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not gross. < 1325943731 538505 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I just want integers but then I can't derive Enum and I'll have to write that. < 1325943734 956193 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO WAY. TO AVOID. TEDIUM. < 1325943770 988513 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm I'll try Rank and File < 1325943774 637044 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :as seperate types. < 1325943780 618942 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is no way this thing will progress to the working stage. < 1325943790 133559 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though they're exactly the same and I'll probably being doing a lot of arithmetic on them as integers. < 1325943790 926523 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-83-229.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I'm just adding more features now < 1325943815 582062 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it will. < 1325943829 161453 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It won't. < 1325943848 824471 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, ah, right. Javascript gravity guy was working on a Latin thing too and I was wondering if you were in cahoots, at which point I would break down crying because that's like Hexham levels of crazy. < 1325943863 857534 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-83-229.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah, I'm doing it in Haskell < 1325943877 932635 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Don't believe him. < 1325943880 825160 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's too good to be false. < 1325943904 713377 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : whats the deal with chess and not killing the king <-- it was probably politically incorrect at one time to kill kings, even in games < 1325943907 471604 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1325943925 349640 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, worse still, he had the opportunity to be one of the interviewers when I went to Cambridge. < 1325943933 969557 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: omg < 1325943935 296957 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would have been upsetting in the extreme. < 1325943941 145941 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :would you have said < 1325943945 68885 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"JAVASCRIPT GRAVITY GUY!!!" < 1325943953 530460 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I SHALL USURP YOUR GAME" < 1325943955 415349 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt it. < 1325944017 426395 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : My Latin vocab tester is going well <-- VERBVM NECESSE EST < 1325944033 699068 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh oops E is a File and a Direction < 1325944051 612833 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the IsInCheck(chessboard) function is diabolical eh < 1325944061 694450 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it the most difficult of all to write? < 1325944071 770876 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: probably not < 1325944076 998213 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it won't be as easy as normal chess. < 1325944077 473485 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds trivial < 1325944103 846836 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does IsInCheck do? < 1325944116 116981 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it determines if the king is in check < 1325944118 37401 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, did you read about continuous chess (it's the best chess). < 1325944120 97309 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :determines if a player is in check I'd imagine. < 1325944122 335950 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it uses magic to know whose turn it is < 1325944125 731383 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1325944129 614114 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :by "the king" I imagine he means it returns something like Maybe Player < 1325944137 997431 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1325944138 798961 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is it < 1325944143 482770 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alternately bicontinuous chess because some loser already made his own crappy continuous chess. < 1325944159 343171 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, chess, except the board and the pieces are continuous. < 1325944161 566231 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :real chess?? < 1325944168 626812 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Excuse me you need to invent tricontinuous so that it's continuous in time too still? < 1325944180 584572 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: < 1325944183 358496 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Direction = North | Northeast | East | Southeast | South | Southwest | West | Northwest < 1325944195 41770 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know about how I feel about these expand direction names < 1325944196 652896 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: yeah player in check i meant < 1325944203 149938 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_> < 1325944204 743050 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, don't paste him the original definition; I've altered it significantly. < 1325944208 9843 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:02:46: Basically, the board is a continuous square, and each area corresponding to an initial piece is instead full of continuous piece. 23:04:45: To perform a move, you take some measurable subset of one batch of piece and move them such that the measure of the piece remains the same (this is inelegant but, I think, necessary) and \int ddp is equal to a valid move vector. < 1325944210 30111 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:05:37: Capture consists of moving some quantity of piece over some of your opponent's piece, which erases the target piece. < 1325944215 323349 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: i don't know what that means < 1325944215 957718 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: ^ < 1325944218 376476 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1325944224 224308 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Well, now you get to tell oklopol the diff. < 1325944228 411242 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastelog continuous time < 1325944245 53189 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :is a piece an Borel subset of measure 1 where the measure of the board is 64? < 1325944261 405764 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1325944272 584260 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and is the board [0, 8] times [0, 8]? < 1325944276 21176 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, well, um, at the start of the game you have squares of piece (that's like piece but an uncountable noun) occupying the subset of [0,8]^2 corresponding to their initial positions in normal chess. < 1325944284 46374 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastelog continuous in time < 1325944284 679449 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: if I combine Board and GridSpace into one type would you recommend using a newtype to seperate Board from being just another Vector (Maybe Piece)? < 1325944299 67654 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Dunno. < 1325944299 223809 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.31615 < 1325944302 581936 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see a need particularly. < 1325944308 495746 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay that much i guessed < 1325944348 258972 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, a move is a measure-preserving bijection f. < 1325944357 528375 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A move is valid if: < 1325944358 819376 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, many. types. < 1325944379 376600 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell is the language of 22 billion types. < 1325944385 481258 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the hinduism of languages. < 1325944391 522967 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-83-229.as13285.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1325944401 169299 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :- The vector from the centroid of P to the centroid of f(P) corresponds to a legal move in standard chess of that piece. < 1325944402 461337 :iconmaster_!~rooms@cpe-74-79-18-174.twcny.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1325944407 148810 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: i think [0,8)^2 might be more elegant < 1325944421 541728 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm except it's not symmetric < 1325944423 538843 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :- f(P) intersects only piece of the opposite colour, which is then captured. < 1325944430 578259 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i was assuming it doesn't matter because of measure stuff < 1325944453 809848 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :centroid in the measure theoretical sense? < 1325944473 366501 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do all the moves take the form of [a,b] x [c,d] ? < 1325944476 893080 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: some people keep insisting this should allow nonmeasurable pieces < 1325944479 35702 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how did this happen.. hahaha < 1325944489 586966 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that continued fraction form? < 1325944494 836415 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: some people think they can make this work < 1325944503 734190 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :- if P is not knight, then forall p in P, the line segment between p and f(P) contains no different piece of the same colour, and contains piece of the opposite colour only if it is captured in the same move. < 1325944504 564635 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would have worked with the older definition. < 1325944508 588244 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: it's 2d, banach-tarski doesn't apply < 1325944509 697750 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, of course. < 1325944512 890036 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Special-casing the knight is not cool man. < 1325944522 527503 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, normal chess does it? < 1325944528 276764 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :FINE < 1325944550 473934 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, banach-tarski doesn't apply, but there's no restriction to rigid motions. < 1325944569 425099 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :the last one prevents playing normal chess with this < 1325944575 148840 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it does. < 1325944592 497669 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you change the initial distribution of piece to allow diagonal moves. < 1325944598 776916 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: please tell me that (Enum a) => Maybe a is an Enum. < 1325944611 971727 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: If it's not, it takes four lines to implement an instance. < 1325944617 687723 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1325944618 4460 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1325944620 905115 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :THAT'S NOT THE IMPORTANT PART. < 1325944634 325347 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that's kind of messy, and so are most other ways of solving it. < 1325944643 697902 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Normal chess is inelegant anyway. < 1325944645 649182 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :f.e., it's discrete. < 1325944649 154332 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1325944654 855776 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :f.e., it doesn't have portals. < 1325944660 995195 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Iron. < 1325944664 104614 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :discreteness is bestness. < 1325944679 320911 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Well Phantom_Hoover has yet to make time continuous so continuous chess is still lame. < 1325944682 856045 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But once he does it'll be perfect. < 1325944708 519675 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, also: any pawn that comes within 1 unit of the far side of the board becomes queen. < 1325944759 976596 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The batch from which the pawn came is then effectively treated as two batches of piece, a pawn and a queen batch, and they are both moved simultaneously. < 1325944762 805546 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm I think instead of listing my types bottom-to-top I'll go top-to-bottom < 1325944787 769363 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh. too much trouble. this way is fine. < 1325944805 323530 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone know a compression algorithm that produces really good results on almost-universally-English plaintext? < 1325944811 196428 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: what, not choice of promotion? < 1325944816 29837 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :xz -9 is only doing 303 megs -> 47 megs, which seems like it could be a lot better. < 1325944816 663790 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, oh, right, yes. < 1325944833 107539 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I had that originally, but I forgot it.) < 1325944838 494540 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The mechanics are otherwise the same. < 1325944843 175469 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there 8 hues of pawn or can you move all your pawn at once? < 1325944858 615 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: huffman encoding? < 1325944881 14557 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: n < 1325944893 990387 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O (no not that one.. one that a room full of ingenious computer scientists must rack their brains for) < 1325944895 893563 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-83-229.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325944902 64197 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: Yeah yeah, I'm more interested in an already-written tool than a general technique :P < 1325944904 533527 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually i'm starting to think this thing could work < 1325944905 210214 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: thx < 1325944914 937370 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, originally, it was all at once, but then the move definition switched from the integral to the centroid (i.e. slightly different integral) definition, which makes treating it all at once screwy. < 1325944916 841620 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: np < 1325944943 554246 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :By which I mean even orthogonal movements in normal chess become impossible. < 1325944977 531741 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-83-229.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1325944990 511223 :iconmaster_!~rooms@cpe-74-79-18-174.twcny.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey < 1325944997 733306 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :now i wonder who wins this game, i can't see a trivial winning strategy < 1325945008 316899 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Do you for Chess? < 1325945014 544406 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Defining check is especially fun. < 1325945024 392570 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: isn't there some compression that allows you to start with a dictionary (essentially prepended)? < 1325945040 492152 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Do you mean... Huffman encoding? < 1325945046 929065 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :MAYBE < 1325945050 918124 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: err, isn't it just that all your king are belong to us? < 1325945055 117786 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically.. the IsPlayerInCheck() function becomes more expensive as the movespace < 1325945057 457533 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :if allowed a further move < 1325945061 372528 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1325945066 492103 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^increases < 1325945071 685433 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-83-229.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do people recommend for Haskell regexes? < 1325945108 608073 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Ping < 1325945114 381389 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pong < 1325945115 14597 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: You probably don't want to < 1325945115 807522 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i believe if all the king has to be taken at once, then the solution is stalemate < 1325945117 455427 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then checkmate is... wait, no, you could hem in all your opponents king with pawn or something, and then use knight to actually threaten it. < 1325945133 643086 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: What's a good compressor for majority-plain-English text that can take advantage of that structure, esp. dictionary < 1325945147 256564 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: xz -9 only does ~300 megs -> ~40 megs and I want better < 1325945153 800376 :derdon!~derdon@pD9E1DC23.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325945177 924488 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: But ask Deewiant for the one he uses, ISTR it being good :P < 1325945216 820305 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Oh, you might find this (very) mildly amusing; it's from the AI course channel, which is still empty since it hasn't started: http://p.zem.fi/t027 < 1325945222 282638 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's more likely that the brains of all involved will melt, though. < 1325945228 583533 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: regex-tdfa < 1325945248 586740 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ... okay < 1325945253 240813 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: :D < 1325945256 97901 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> toEnum False < 1325945256 842801 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `GHC.Types.Int' < 1325945257 2617 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred type ... < 1325945261 175876 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fromEnum False < 1325945261 969063 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 0 < 1325945265 340937 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Your humbleness in explaining the lack of AI systems in the channel is amazing. < 1325945291 304185 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, I challenge you to a game! < 1325945308 983439 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll be white, you can be black, and we play it on a 3x3 board with king at opposite corners. < 1325945312 320948 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure i'm interested :D < 1325945315 333234 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Data.Vector.Storable is pretty cool. < 1325945317 623453 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds hard. < 1325945333 601288 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and nothing else? < 1325945339 3150 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-174-6.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325945352 929014 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-83-229.as13285.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1325945357 470412 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, no. < 1325945412 246179 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :k i shall play. < 1325945483 413986 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey so < 1325945488 846235 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: er, I'm not really sure how to write peek. < 1325945492 543003 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have an advantage because you made this game < 1325945519 473966 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: fmap (fromEnum . fromIntegral :: Word8 -> Foo) . peek < 1325945522 693983 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so can i have the small extra rule that i remove the *closure* of whatever i manage to take from ya instead of just the set < 1325945536 124248 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think it changes much < 1325945556 850489 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: DON'T DOOO IIII < 1325945557 850909 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :T\ < 1325945559 850901 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325945562 269870 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're clearly planning something, but it'll be an entertaining something, so fine. < 1325945564 809615 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assuming the pieces are at [0,1]^2 and [2,3]^2, I move the king contained in the triangle with corners (0,0), (0,1) and (1,0) to that with corners (2,2), (2,3), (3,2). < 1325945619 783766 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1325945623 586696 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-174-6.as13285.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1325945648 32089 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we note that Q^2 \cap board is a countable dense subset of the board with measure zero < 1325945649 829492 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i win < 1325945658 8565 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::'D < 1325945659 635938 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but umm < 1325945662 568652 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me see what you wrote < 1325945664 986808 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log [f]inite euclidean < 1325945672 8173 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2012-01-06.txt:17:17:23: do you know whats dissapointing? having an idea and then googling it.. well time for me to google this finite euclidean plane chess idea of mine < 1325945680 322082 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops wrong 1 < 1325945683 15804 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log [f]inite euclidean < 1325945698 477967 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2012-01-06.txt:17:09:46: ok, what about chess on a finite euclidean plane < 1325945706 549537 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't see how that's a legal move < 1325945714 671672 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yours i mean < 1325945724 104924 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1325945730 268729 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, piece can intersect itself during a move. < 1325945735 936469 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: zpaq < 1325945745 119091 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle (a -> b) -> (a, a) -> (b, b) < 1325945745 278558 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Graph.Inductive.Query.Monad (><) :: (a -> b) -> (c -> d) -> (a, c) -> (b, d) < 1325945745 436764 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Graph.Inductive.Query.Monad mapSnd :: (a -> b) -> (c, a) -> (c, b) < 1325945745 595399 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Graph.Inductive.Query.Monad mapFst :: (a -> b) -> (a, c) -> (b, c) < 1325945751 372142 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay so < 1325945754 262472 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is likely that i started this with that innocent comment < 1325945755 918368 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's in check, you can't move there < 1325945761 978679 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: This is going to be one of those state-of-the-art ones that take 3 years to compress isn't t < 1325945762 772603 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it < 1325945773 569545 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: join (***) < 1325945776 846659 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, it can't possibly be in check; you only have 0.5 king and I have 1. < 1325945787 950169 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t join (***) < 1325945788 584662 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Assuming we're leaving out the closure rule, because duh.) < 1325945788 743665 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (a :: * -> * -> *) b c. (Arrow a) => a b c -> a (b, b) (c, c) < 1325945797 343284 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t join < 1325945798 296916 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (m :: * -> *) a. (Monad m) => m (m a) -> m a < 1325945804 61708 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, duh. < 1325945807 72333 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what do I need to work this magic? < 1325945814 55223 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: Control.Arrow, Control.Monad < 1325945819 335743 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks < 1325945823 736453 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: I suggest defining < 1325945829 70700 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It's just the best one I found on AUR < 1325945830 21675 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :both :: (a -> b) -> (a, a) -> (b, b) < 1325945831 924582 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :both = join (***) < 1325945832 597857 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait i'm confused < 1325945843 852269 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the best compression technique of all is to have the entire contents of the document contained in the decompression software, reproduced upon running the decompressor < 1325945847 571537 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Funny, it's not in my package manager, so I'll have to compile it myself :P < 1325945852 517915 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :you seem to have moved 2 in both axes. < 1325945858 793798 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh, and it's in separate zip(!) files < 1325945909 923029 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Maybe nanozip is if that one isn't < 1325945913 461311 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or freearc < 1325945921 149945 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1325945932 792171 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :garden of eden decompression < 1325945943 828930 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :garden of eden wait what's going on here? < 1325945947 278447 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well.. < 1325945955 752301 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i assume that has nothing to do with CA < 1325945970 550557 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: when you check the state of the output of the decompressor it just happens to be the correct state < 1325945972 294028 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, currently my king consists of two triangles, symmetric about the line joining (0,3) and (3,0) and that joining (0,0) and (3,3); the centroid is thus obviously at (1.5,1.5); the initial centroid was at (0,5,0.5). < 1325945982 480562 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess the word garden of eden is very not appropriate < 1325945984 762092 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, this is going really well < 1325945988 652632 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks elliott! < 1325945992 973908 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t fromEnum < 1325945993 926764 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Enum a) => a -> Int < 1325945998 863921 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks also kallisti, but that was earlier! < 1325946001 121315 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :toEnum, w/e. < 1325946006 749907 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: what did I do? < 1325946006 907900 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks probably other people too! < 1325946008 201640 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh triangles sorry < 1325946011 709657 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like uh.. < 1325946014 929765 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, helped me debug the other day < 1325946020 993727 :iconmaster_!~rooms@cpe-74-79-18-174.twcny.res.rr.com QUIT :Quit: Pardon me, but I have to die in NetHack again. < 1325946022 421416 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t toEnum < 1325946023 94276 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Enum a) => Int -> a < 1325946031 574475 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: And if you want to tune zpaq more, you can try using this config: http://mattmahoney.net/dc/max_enwik9.cfg < 1325946054 941979 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle Int -> Word8 < 1325946055 259631 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.ByteString index :: ByteString -> Int -> Word8 < 1325946055 418482 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.ByteString.Unsafe unsafeIndex :: ByteString -> Int -> Word8 < 1325946055 575040 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude (!!) :: [a] -> Int -> a < 1325946065 516166 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I'm not compiling it myself manually :P < 1325946072 226806 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially since it doesn't seem to come with a build system. < 1325946088 793012 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/zp/zpaq/PKGBUILD < 1325946111 721048 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: strictly speaking, i guess i have no legal moves from here, since i don't have a legal starting position, can you clarify what a legal move is? < 1325946115 230515 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No guarantee that'll work on my OS < 1325946122 603636 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But meh, I might try it sometime < 1325946132 824585 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :the vector between centroids is one that the piece can move in normal chess? < 1325946134 329767 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, one in which the centroid moves by a legal chess move. < 1325946138 703457 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1325946140 328925 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mm okey < 1325946140 646454 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Generally "$CXX $CXXFLAGS $LDFLAGS" should work < 1325946143 764486 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fromIntegral (5 :: Int) :: Word8 < 1325946144 473651 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 5 < 1325946146 367149 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1325946153 456718 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: But might need different cflags for e.g. -D platform stuff. < 1325946175 323755 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's conceivable, but I doubt it < 1325946201 243770 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Suppose that you want to decompress a text document named "accounts4.txt" . and someone just happened to have a copy of that document and named it data.zip .. and created a batch file "unzip" .. and unzip contained "rename data.zip to accounts4.txt" < 1325946206 784635 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fromIntegral (5 :: Word8) :: Int < 1325946207 458099 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 5 < 1325946210 986892 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :good. < 1325946214 892452 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: Pls look up Kolgomorov complexity < 1325946257 615335 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: can i just say i move my centroid by (-1, -1) and distribute my position evenly enough around the board? i don't really want to come up with a concrete way to do this :D < 1325946275 11446 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :some portion of your king is taken :o < 1325946278 539532 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1325946286 806529 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose you need to know quite a bit more < 1325946305 832276 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, you need to preserve measure and not move through piece that you haven't captured, too. < 1325946306 783253 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: What about good old paq (paq9a), is that available? < 1325946312 141153 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not really fluent in functions on reals. < 1325946313 884782 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1325946321 405666 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Nope < 1325946324 616444 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net QUIT :*.net *.split < 1325946324 772743 :jix!~jix@dronf.net QUIT :*.net *.split < 1325946325 606539 :yiyus!1242712427@je.je.je QUIT :*.net *.split < 1325946325 762992 :SimonRC_!~sc@fof.durge.org QUIT :*.net *.split < 1325946331 650910 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Your system sucks < 1325946339 772985 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Yep < 1325946343 371285 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric : `peek' is not a (visible) method of class `Storable' < 1325946359 151291 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't understand when everyone did so much research < 1325946359 307659 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :now this is kind of interesting, perhaps there is a way to take a zero measure set and move it around the other guy's pieces so that none of them can move < 1325946359 594018 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325946359 750453 :jix!~jix@dronf.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325946359 750637 :yiyus!1242712427@je.je.je JOIN :#esoteric < 1325946359 750711 :SimonRC_!~sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1325946368 539039 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net QUIT :Max SendQ exceeded < 1325946378 16923 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :while i wasted my life away trying to cope < 1325946378 212416 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325946387 535911 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I need Foreign.Storable I think < 1325946398 100503 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, it used to be, but then I altered the conditions to let you work around that. < 1325946421 356439 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: and what are those conditions? < 1325946438 900731 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If your opponent tries to corral you by fuzzing a set of zero measure around your piece, you can just take it all in a move with a set of zero measure of your own piece and make your move anyway. < 1325946444 763261 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i proved that you can do that < 1325946458 282489 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1325946459 551684 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sets of zero measure are basically irrelevant, I think. < 1325946473 62808 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm so now Square is: data Square = Square (Maybe Piece) (Maybe Loop) < 1325946476 273713 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :right i do recall that small detail now < 1325946479 549506 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is not a derivable Enum. < 1325946501 504812 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since they can't make any significant capture, and they can be taken without restriction. < 1325946581 193620 :iconmaster_!~rooms@cpe-74-79-18-174.twcny.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1325946589 803473 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so umm let's see what happens if i just move 1 down < 1325946605 975425 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah the problem is that Enum can't be derived like that. < 1325946610 412954 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. < 1325946639 674488 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you win < 1325946641 586230 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION cracks knuckles and gets to instance writing < 1325946682 320241 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait do you... < 1325946683 787723 :cheater!~cheater@dslb-084-057-030-245.pools.arcor-ip.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1325946686 565647 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay I've actually written a Haskell program that actually does something well! < 1325946695 806925 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, you do < 1325946700 166005 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: help do I write enum instances sanely I'm afraid . < 1325946703 578025 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :+how < 1325946706 813451 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now for the tricky part.. < 1325946756 251717 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Making it standalone < 1325946783 833848 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thinks GHC should be able to derive Enum if all of the inner types are Enums... < 1325946794 957638 :iconmaster_!~rooms@cpe-74-79-18-174.twcny.res.rr.com QUIT :Client Quit < 1325946832 977361 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: well, would you care to make your move? < 1325946847 246017 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you make yours? < 1325946854 546721 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah one down < 1325946875 142760 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well left < 1325946905 283563 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I win then, although strictly you're just not allowed to make that move. < 1325946928 927188 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :true. < 1325946938 859366 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but we have just kings to that seems like a silly rule < 1325946952 479763 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :how would one write instance (Enum a, Enum b) => (a, b) < 1325946956 734543 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1325946959 412465 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :how would one write instance (Enum a, Enum b) => Enum (a, b) < 1325946969 415845 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :because i'm guessing a perfect game is infinite < 1325947126 800417 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't think this is as simple as you're claiming it to be. < 1325947133 992315 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or well, it's not now that I've changed the type. < 1325947156 497285 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but PieceType could never have Enum derived for it; < 1325947159 73804 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and now: < 1325947161 451 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Square = Square (Maybe Piece) (Maybe Loop) < 1325947168 102501 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :w/e it's seriously not har < 1325947169 254052 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :d < 1325947173 43315 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Loop = Loop Direction LoopKind < 1325947181 630013 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're getting hung up on some really trivial functions just because they're instance methods < 1325947194 947937 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has nothing to do with instance methods. < 1325947297 280263 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :* kallisti thinks GHC should be able to derive Enum if all of the inner types are Enums... <-- doesn't work, consider data Test = I Integer | B Bool -- what is pred (B False) ? < 1325947320 284180 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er I mean product types specifically < 1325947357 530902 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the deal with multiline strings in Haskell? < 1325947366 680992 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok then, how do do succ (3, True) using _only_ Enum methods < 1325947368 694363 :cheater!~cheater@dslb-084-057-030-245.pools.arcor-ip.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325947373 97560 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*do you do < 1325947380 538510 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe Loop has 1 + (8 * 2) enumerations, Maybe Piece has 1 + (2 * (5 + 8 + 8 * (1 + (8 * 8)))) enumerations < 1325947390 913160 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: they suck, hth < 1325947418 647744 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: do you suggest I write these cases out with pattern matching? or is there a convenient bit of math I'm missing. < 1325947451 913387 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I suppose you would need Bounded also wouldn't you? < 1325947454 531414 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dude just use fromENums on the fields < 1325947469 602706 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :followed by..... < 1325947504 139220 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :blargh just pack it however, the whole point is to store everything in [0,256) in the end < 1325947506 41944 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't add them, or multiply them. what is the maths to take these two numbers and magically enumerate the product type. < 1325947511 983428 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :although hmm < 1325947516 667754 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait nm < 1325947533 261774 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Bounded, Enum, Eq < 1325947538 108587 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it really worth being able to compress a 8x8 grid into 64 bytes? < 1325947580 199068 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: If you ever want to write an AI, yes; anyway you're overcomplicating this massively < 1325947590 426392 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm getting thrown off because you're telling me to do all of these ridiculous things I wouldn't want to do to begin with. < 1325947593 358749 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :am I? < 1325947599 208251 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then why are you asking me for advice < 1325947644 589122 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (1 + (8 * 2)) * (1 + (2 * (5 + 8 + 8 * (1 + (8 * 8))))) < 1325947645 262593 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 18139 < 1325947658 560624 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> maxBound :: Word16 < 1325947659 234060 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 65535 < 1325947663 871963 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: you can do either line continuation with \n\ ... \ or you can use unlines on a list of strings < 1325947689 890399 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ah I see what you mean. How do I take bytes and pack them together? < 1325947699 204240 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically, I'm making a standalone version of my latin flash-cards thing, and want the CSV containing the words in the same file < 1325947716 394889 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I can exploit a loophole in my school's ridiculously tight security < 1325947719 461274 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Bitshifts and .|.? < 1325947723 954824 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT security < 1325947725 752902 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the works. < 1325947727 659821 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*that < 1325947733 452216 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's probably something with template haskell < 1325947739 662976 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (1 + (2 * (5 + 8 + 8 * (1 + (8 * 8))))) < 1325947740 461527 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1067 < 1325947758 36411 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm that's going to require more than a Word8 < 1325947759 939386 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Really, I'd just write all the cases out manually at the top level < 1325947763 509187 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1325947768 984992 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's so much bother < 1325947780 172899 :cheater!~cheater@dslb-084-057-030-245.pools.arcor-ip.net QUIT :Quit: Ex-Chat < 1325947781 348583 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's basically the opposite of what I want to do. < 1325947790 18639 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have fun < 1325947809 652277 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're making this sound much easier than it actually is. < 1325947842 131613 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because I've done similar things before and it was easy < 1325947859 928208 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds are easy even if you don't make them easy < 1325947864 387632 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why they are called sounds. < 1325947894 984741 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: tight security, they don't allow data files? < 1325947905 361090 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Where did the old rezzo agents repo go? < 1325947913 201488 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The one with my stuff in it :P < 1325947942 919847 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, they don't allow executable files < 1325947956 20581 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, except for some bizarre reason in .zip archives < 1325947968 439719 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: well .zip it then? < 1325947988 460953 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, can't access files from within a zip < 1325947993 673533 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a weird system < 1325948002 423523 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1325948006 703770 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :.....ugh < 1325948007 813660 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION leaves this to elliott < 1325948009 81441 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :my brain < 1325948009 873926 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hurts. < 1325948023 22697 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION leaves this to oerja < 1325948024 527868 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :n < 1325948039 448375 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION infloops < 1325948046 146218 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just trust me. < 1325948049 77665 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :flashcards eh < 1325948058 842602 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't go to my school, you don't need to know why I need to do this < 1325948064 617480 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its probably best to think in terms of association forming time thresholds < 1325948084 295065 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so minimally complete definition for Enum is fromEnum toEnum right? < 1325948100 124003 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like.. expose self to one stimulus.. then to another < 1325948176 788027 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then again.. maybe not < 1325948204 436698 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lot of learning is subtle < 1325948220 391725 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :meanings of words are necessarily anticipated < 1325948231 474669 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't force the meanings < 1325948240 724340 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can learn through anticipating the meaning < 1325948275 298869 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then.. you use the word.. and get corrected < 1325948288 862822 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont know < 1325948377 672153 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 1067 - 16 < 1325948378 465645 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1051 < 1325948389 703926 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :instance Enum Loop where fromEnum (Loop d Unidirectional) = fromEnum d fromEnum (Loop d Bidirectional) = 7 + fromEnum d toEnum i = Loop (toEnum (i `mod` 8)) (toEnum ((i+1) / 8)) < 1325948393 720327 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :16 down, 1051 more to go. < 1325948431 759706 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually I think that should be i not i+1 < 1325948442 949600 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1325948453 757535 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also `div` < 1325948467 970195 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also... divmod < 1325948470 830726 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also... quotrem < 1325948511 254618 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks to my crazy fear of linebreaks where I do not think linebreaks should be, I have a line that is 56844 characters long < 1325948521 411768 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh good. < 1325948528 668191 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is OCD about whitespace layout < 1325948548 74152 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and striking a balance between not having way too many lines and not condensing everything into one line < 1325948567 198034 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, the best way to learn a language is to read it < 1325948571 677660 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or speak it < 1325948580 695296 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err i mean listen to it < 1325948585 796639 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*54952 < 1325948592 599716 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Less impressive, but still a lot < 1325948594 384215 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hi correct my math provide suggestions < 1325948604 608355 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :reading may not be sufficient < 1325948605 916825 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hummmm < 1325948633 220530 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hmmm I could use Bounded I think. < 1325948653 775346 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1325948657 753646 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :a formula! < 1325948704 499242 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, do I really need the standalone version? < 1325948759 650030 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fromEnum (Loop d t) = fromEnum t * 8 + fromEnum d < 1325948759 847535 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric : toEnum i = Loop (toEnum d) (toEnum m) < 1325948760 3730 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric : where < 1325948760 355005 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric : (d,m) = i `quoteRem` 8 < 1325948764 291571 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION suddenly remembers how to do math < 1325948772 796166 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so can binary lambda calculus be encoded as unary lambda calculus? < 1325948801 699914 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :im guessing the only problem is leading zeros < 1325948816 30537 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but it would be stupid < 1325948831 77251 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually I'm going to use let instead of where < 1325948833 138659 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah, just assume whatstisface < 1325948840 70585 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I think let doesn't get as much love as where. :P < 1325948846 738067 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Binominal base 2 or something < 1325948851 918706 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Binary without zeroes < 1325948854 61941 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hi I learned how to do math < 1325948854 379721 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wouldn't be stupid :D < 1325948891 753897 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I'm pretty sure PieceInfo will be a number of special cases < 1325948904 125006 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: ok < 1325948919 714974 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: really you could autogenerate the enumeration stuff < 1325948925 847505 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. < 1325948929 691204 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just generate a list of inhabitants with functor < 1325948929 847526 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this was kind of like < 1325948932 270909 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what I was asking for. < 1325948934 96748 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and use the indices < 1325948941 122834 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you still need to manually write stuff < 1325948942 86460 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1325948949 330514 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :data T = A S U | B Q < 1325948951 391295 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd do < 1325948956 523298 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: to solve the leading zeros, just add a 1 to the beginning of every string of 0's and 1's < 1325948956 682130 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"list of inhabitates with functor" wat < 1325948968 746776 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh you mean do list stuff.. < 1325948970 174095 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :instance Elems T where elems = A <$> elems <*> elems <|> B <$> elems < 1325948988 906396 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you can trivially define toEnum/fromEnum implemenetations for Elems things < 1325949019 71806 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1325949034 281089 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok so .. if we run with the idea of unary lambda calculus, then programming becomes a matter of bounding defining groups of objects into sets < 1325949037 882525 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does elems return < 1325949046 194411 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bounding < 1325949054 658689 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: [a] < 1325949061 715168 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :class Elems a where elems :: [a] < 1325949064 255404 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hmmm < 1325949067 32870 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :instance Elems Rank where elems = [R1, R2, ...] < 1325949070 757680 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1325949080 966206 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :instance (Elems a) => Elems (Maybe a) where elems = Nothing <|> Just <$> elems < 1325949085 298273 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> [1,2,3] <|> [4,5,6] < 1325949085 933020 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [1,2,3,4,5,6] < 1325949108 245532 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like for instance... you could hand someone a bucket of marbles and say "here is your program" < 1325949110 550766 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1325949111 819891 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: make sure to be careful with the definition of toEnum/fromEnum based on Elems, you want to avoid recomputing indices each time, this is easy if you know how pure memoisation works < 1325949119 969931 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't < 1325949135 667633 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well... it's not actually that easy for the toEnum case < 1325949140 476472 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but anyway < 1325949145 153583 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and just by adding or subtracting marbles from a bucket you can code < 1325949149 263015 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually i think you can, hmm < 1325949152 394974 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it is pretty cool < 1325949152 711951 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :gimme a sec, lemme whip something up < 1325949190 886402 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION was bogged down in arithmetic that he forgot he could just use lists or something. < 1325949198 271279 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :+so much < 1325949199 419697 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something < 1325949203 50299 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :make that sentence make sense kthx < 1325949207 967497 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that probably isn't the best idea though because of the traversal overhead each time, however i'm writing something which should avoid that trivially < 1325949212 644886 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and allow the same simple Elems instances < 1325949244 728385 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you could avoid the traversal overhead by using a different data structure < 1325949247 739189 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :such as an array < 1325949248 550739 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or... vector. < 1325949252 557125 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :better to parameterise on the structure < 1325949254 935660 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no, that doesn't work < 1325949264 785851 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll get bored of this and stop implementing it if you keep proposing stupid alternatives :p < 1325949273 688746 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :OKAY FINE WHATEVER < 1325949300 170387 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :most results are "If Steve Jobs decides that some unary lambda calculus is the language of choice for the iPhone 4.0, the developer community is going to find away to ..." < 1325949332 147469 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: also note that I'm pretty sure Word16 is the word size I'll need for Storable < 1325949335 260587 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if that's relevant at all < 1325949340 741294 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't think it is < 1325949351 685145 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: i'm pretty sure you could pack it into one byte but okay < 1325949379 795037 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry multiplication dawg < 1325949392 284204 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahh heres quote "If Steve Jobs decides that some unary lambda calculus is the language of choice for the iPhone 4.0, the developer community is going to find a way to rationalize his selection and talk about how much they love the language." < 1325949405 751053 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the main reason I can't do that is because there are 8 * 8 * 8 different kinds of portals. < 1325949466 769736 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I can't avoid unless I remove the coordinate pair from the definition of PieceInfo < 1325949496 105347 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a possibility I guess, but then I'll have to hunt down the sister portal manually or store their associative seperately, which isn't out of the question. < 1325949524 660650 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hunt it down if it's deterministic; you can cache it in a memo table later. < 1325949546 334513 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just a coordinate to the other portal. < 1325949553 287280 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that's deterministic? < 1325949559 509034 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure what you mean by that. < 1325949600 229124 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah okay I'll take out the coordinate < 1325949603 234226 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the simplifies the storable stuff < 1325949614 316589 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*that < 1325949643 168155 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can just store the association seperately. it's literally just a 4-element table. < 1325949684 108027 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay that's much easier I could probably just handwrite this now. < 1325949701 726678 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the PieceInfo Enum is much simpler. basically 8 Arrows and 8 Portals and 1 of all the other pieces. < 1325949776 220266 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle interleave < 1325949776 695242 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :package interleave < 1325949776 854901 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Graphics.Rendering.OpenGL.GL.VertexArrays data InterleavedArrays < 1325949777 11008 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Graphics.Rendering.OpenGL.GL.VertexArrays interleavedArrays :: InterleavedArrays -> Stride -> Ptr a -> IO () < 1325949785 259784 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle [a] -> [a] -> [a] < 1325949785 735823 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude (++) :: [a] -> [a] -> [a] < 1325949785 894309 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.List (++) :: [a] -> [a] -> [a] < 1325949786 49996 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.List deleteFirstsBy :: (a -> a -> Bool) -> [a] -> [a] -> [a] < 1325949807 842833 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Monad.Logic.Class I believe < 1325949818 701480 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t interleave < 1325949819 820139 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (m :: * -> *) a. (MonadLogic m) => m a -> m a -> m a < 1325949975 531042 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Anyway, turns out it's trivial < 1325949981 643079 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/IZVC or something < 1325950002 931215 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though I think you can avoid overhead and the Ord constraint there < 1325950005 864030 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1325950039 19467 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Later < 1325950041 218612 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: why Map and not array < 1325950068 223429 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, because arrays can;t be indexed by *a*s... < 1325950077 662124 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd work for the fromEnum case, but who cares. < 1325950084 810811 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't use a Vector by default. < 1325950160 914463 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: how often does Storable require that conversion to happen. < 1325950182 631720 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every single time you take an element out or put one in < 1325950187 259414 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, every single operation < 1325950197 155676 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you want to traverse a >thousand-element list each time? < 1325950215 444633 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Part 3487234 in the ongoing series "it's your algorithms". < 1325950267 731888 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ..I never suggested traversing a thousand element list each time? < 1325950286 831654 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I presumed you were implying it was overengineering wrt "how often" < 1325950307 152083 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no I'm just wondering if it would be better to use an array in the fromEnum case < 1325950314 180435 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1325950318 978836 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably irrelevant < 1325950328 120799 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Profile first, etc. < 1325950329 745297 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mentioned it does some kind of memoization? how does that work. < 1325950339 227691 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not really. < 1325950353 605873 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just floating the shared data outside the lambda so that it's shared. < 1325950364 526103 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just related. < 1325950411 878017 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :under what conditions does that occur. < 1325950417 759520 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :When you do it. < 1325950423 985743 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_> < 1325950451 552047 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't explain to you how to take advantage of sharing in a vacuum detached from the fact that you don't really understand the lazy evaluation model, sorry. < 1325950477 642774 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you sure about that? what do you think I don't understand? < 1325950489 830975 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, but you think seq has side-effects < 1325950497 141735 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you clearly misunderstand /something/ < 1325950517 191326 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything is side-effectful at the GHC level. Observing a value mutates memory < 1325950520 763077 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought we discovered it was because I didn't use the same definition of side-effect < 1325950532 854351 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You might have discovered that < 1325950546 298642 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately any definition of side-effect like that is contradictory with your observed viewpoints as Sgeo points out < 1325950629 572518 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose seq could just be considered a language primitive. < 1325950634 788415 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here we go again < 1325950636 375017 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325950694 509342 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has well-defined denotational semantics, and can be implemented operationally with no trouble at all (evidence: GHC) < 1325950711 232046 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1325950712 695663 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's as "special" as any other Prelude function or whatever < 1325950728 841219 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmmmmm < 1325950734 896440 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but can it be implemented without having implemented seq first? < 1325950753 459128 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :null can be defined without null, just with pattern matching < 1325950774 76299 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Good luck trying to define the entirety of Haskell without relying on a few primitives. < 1325950824 547946 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ints, Chars, (actually not Chars), IO stuff < 1325950829 408728 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure what else needs primitives < 1325950833 194125 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :seq :: a -> b -> b < 1325950833 352609 :iconmaster!~iconmaste@cpe-74-79-18-174.twcny.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1325950834 699834 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :seq = let x = x in x < 1325950837 929712 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :good prelude function < 1325950841 181103 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :newtype Int = Int Bool Bool Bool ... thirty one Bools < 1325950848 633330 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Oh snap, evidence by GHC implementation! < 1325950852 969357 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can prove SO MUCH about Haskell in that way. < 1325950860 439413 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :For instance, the function arrow (->) is impure, as evidenced by the definition of IO. < 1325950861 550510 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: is that the actual implmenetation? < 1325950863 808692 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1325950868 491044 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Read the comment at the top. < 1325950894 229579 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so then it's not like "any ther Prelude function" < 1325950897 923276 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :+o < 1325950898 82034 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :newtype Bool = Bool (a -> a -> a) < 1325950900 107338 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Anyway, things like defining data constructors etc. are primitives; seq just happens to be a value < 1325950916 413059 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could also implement seq in terms of some other primitive, say ($!) < 1325950936 546590 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: You're quoting GHC source code, your argument has no applicability to Haskell the language whatsoever in the first place. < 1325950945 226982 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what is my argument? < 1325950947 950428 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't ($!) defined in terms of seq? < 1325950957 763715 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: I have no idea, it's too stupid to work out. < 1325950968 194868 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log parts and the composites are < 1325950969 463956 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: You could make ($!) the primitive and define seq as (id $!). < 1325950975 53730 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :True < 1325950976 5515 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2012-01-07.txt:11:17:47: if we say that the parts and the composites are both classed as objects, and that we can only perform operations on objects, and that all operations have equal weight, then there is the tradeoff that group operations are faster but clumsier < 1325950976 797680 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you think my arguing is "lol this is why seq has side effects" then you're wrong. < 1325951014 346544 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i realized that this is referring to the rules of lambda calculus contrasted with whole lambda calculus programs < 1325951068 890808 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I was simply saying that seq is not like "any other Prelude function" because it has a special implement as a primitive. < 1325951084 100556 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Int (+) is also implemented as a Primitive in GHC. < 1325951087 318373 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1325951093 708851 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :However you can implement (+) on Ints yourself. < 1325951105 726688 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So your argument is really fucking stupid, it's "one implementation does it this way so I'm too dumb to imagine any other way". < 1325951105 885025 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not as efficiently though, right? < 1325951114 789819 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh! Efficiency! The definition of a language. < 1325951127 541493 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ....I'm not even making an argument about seq being a side-effect, dude. < 1325951135 665063 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously, the fact that GHC defines this way does not mean that is somehow specially related to . < 1325951143 931748 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: You're the only person who's said "side-effect" in like the last 20 messages. < 1325951184 475126 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the question is, how many 1's of unary lambda calculus is required to have a haskell interpreter... ahh.. if only one could know < 1325951184 951167 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: seq is a primitive of the language. therefore, it's not a side-effect. < 1325951193 589314 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :God this is really stupid shut up about seq < 1325951283 410665 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :such a number must exist :D < 1325951335 762129 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, with primitives: data type definitions including data constructors and the full type system, pattern matching, guards, what in the Prelude cannot be defined in terms of those primitives < 1325951350 170889 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :seq < 1325951359 911141 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Don't know/care, especially because it's irrelevant < 1325951370 680733 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doubly especially because it'll encourage kallist < 1325951371 632780 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i < 1325951377 607785 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :encourage me to do... what? < 1325951384 468005 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, actually, I think my question is partially kallisti's point < 1325951384 623994 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not even arguing anything < 1325951387 439859 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe. < 1325951417 187475 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: No, you're doing the thing where you just say stupid things continually and reply to people who try and explain why you're wrong while adamantly insisting you're not actually engaging in any kind of disagreement. < 1325951431 160071 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I literally just made a statement about a particular thing you said about seq being like any other Prelude function. other than that I've said "well I guess seq is a language primitive" < 1325951452 202960 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore I'm wrong. < 1325951454 591538 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :about everything < 1325951456 536026 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something. < 1325951489 211211 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :an argument where there was none. fun. I'm going to go do something else. < 1325951526 938829 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good god. < 1325951887 583682 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl `ls 'stuff'` < 1325951890 360943 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/bin/ls: cannot access stuff: No such file or directory < 1325951899 831259 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run perl -e '`ls 'stuff'`' < 1325951904 59934 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ls: cannot access stuff: No such file or directory < 1325951905 170356 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run perl -e '`ls q(stuff)`' < 1325951908 848534 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :sh: Syntax error: "(" unexpected < 1325951947 779755 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run perl -e '`ls q/stuff/`' < 1325951951 638368 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ls: cannot access q/stuff/: No such file or directory < 1325951967 584377 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run perl -e '`echo 'hi'`' < 1325951971 480774 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1325951985 406610 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run perl -e 'qx(echo q(hi))' < 1325951988 272378 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :sh: Syntax error: "(" unexpected < 1325951991 364313 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1325952002 839651 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run perl -e 'qx{echo q{hi}}' < 1325952005 972544 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1325952168 973461 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1325952604 756307 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1325953190 130328 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I've come to the conclusion < 1325953195 683268 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that I'm completely incapable of copypasting something into emacs. < 1325953236 83223 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought I knew how but it's not working :P < 1325953244 493613 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and... suddenly it works! < 1325953304 854204 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : that I'm completely incapable of copypasting something into emacs. <-- middle mouse button? < 1325953311 247484 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you are in X that is < 1325953340 568877 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I generally don't use the ctrl-v/ctrl-c buffer outside stuff like gimp < 1325953356 234690 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea how you access that in emacs < 1325953498 192601 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even know how to /type/ in emacs < 1325953540 463447 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, uh it is easy just hit the keys on your keyboard < 1325953600 3778 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :emacs is a really nice editor. Of course it has some flaws, but I find it generally have less flaws than other editors. < 1325953657 739982 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(of course that depend on what I'm doing, I tend to use other editors for some specific languages, or for some specific tasks) < 1325953825 132323 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are the benefits of levenshtein coding over regular binary coding? < 1325953867 13881 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you have to use C-y in emacs < 1325953870 188015 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it wasn't working for some reason.. < 1325953874 367398 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, heh < 1325953903 270954 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or.... < 1325953906 284287 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :C-y uses the same buffer as selected text in X < 1325953927 493027 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :does levenshtein coding mean that in one series of 0s and 1s you can encode multiple integers? < 1325953948 239539 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats amazing < 1325954546 338907 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is? < 1325954579 958847 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1325954723 57723 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i don't think it means that < 1325954727 598423 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325954777 6821 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: wat < 1325954793 689063 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl `echo 'hi'` < 1325954794 330290 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1325954797 343958 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl print `echo 'hi'` < 1325954797 978778 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1325954827 194125 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coping from wiki 0101100 = 0 1 2? :D < 1325954839 263395 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[0][10][1100] = 0 1 2 < 1325954921 508589 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :0000 = [0][0][0][0] = 0 0 0 0 < 1325954954 153399 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[10][10][10][10][0] = 1 1 1 1 0 < 1325954954 496541 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash really < 1325954955 349543 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :really < 1325954960 241467 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :really needs perl quote-like operators < 1325954964 261423 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but... perhaps what i am doing wrong is wording my statement < 1325955019 483665 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well herp derp yes, the levenshtein code is a code, so you can stick integers in a sequence and decode uniquely. < 1325955058 42546 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry about that < 1325955059 950561 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can also just encode sets of integers in an integer and use a single codeword < 1325955104 764036 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-? < 1325955111 418743 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact it's even a prefix code, another such code is coding n to 0^n1 < 1325955113 201721 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not just any code, a prefix code. (Also why is "prefix code" and "prefix-free code" the same thing nurrrr?) < 1325955143 987177 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its weird how all of this is obvious to you guys < 1325955146 89264 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: please don't restate my lines. that doesn't make you sound smart. < 1325955160 217429 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You were just TOO FAST for me. < 1325955182 45739 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that's all right, "it's no shame to be fast", like we say here in Finn land. < 1325955185 56181 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean you must have taken math as a hobby rather than a school thing < 1325955194 240616 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: i've had a lot of this stuff on courses. from the coding perspective and the combinatorics on words perspective. < 1325955204 32668 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :math is my profession < 1325955219 367464 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure that's a word though < 1325955222 938019 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could even go as far as to say oklopol eats math for breakfast. < 1325955239 575262 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :profession is a word < 1325955246 665164 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I eat little hoops of wholegrain, covered in chocolate for breakfast < 1325955255 69990 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm just wondering if it's as general term for job as i think it is. < 1325955262 805641 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :combinatorics however is probably not what you intended < 1325955268 275348 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but might be a word < 1325955272 481319 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, i meant combinatorics on words < 1325955291 269429 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :which has almost nothing to do with combinatorics < 1325955327 984344 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :2. (5) profession -- (an occupation requiring special education (especially in the liberal arts or sciences)) < 1325955337 852471 :derdon!~derdon@pD9E1DC23.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1325955342 229869 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :math doesn't require any sort of education < 1325955352 238494 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's just your occupation. < 1325955357 960426 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :jobulation < 1325955373 136427 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tribulation. < 1325955415 660433 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :OED's definition just says you need to know some stuff, not get an education. < 1325955418 542955 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"An occupation in which a professed knowledge of some subject, field, or science is applied; a vocation or career, especially one that involves prolonged training and a formal qualification. Also occas. as mass noun: occupations of this kind." < 1325955439 579035 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"More widely: any occupation by which a person regularly earns a living." < 1325955442 302532 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i suppose you need to know some stuff < 1325955480 984393 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: do you have a university degree yet? < 1325955490 602132 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1325955505 801771 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you considered getting a university degree0 < 1325955507 71227 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1325955531 518430 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am living in a weird kind of dire strait... < 1325955551 310377 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the world has defeated me from every angle < 1325955572 492065 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i'm aware of that, i felt the question was orthogonal enough < 1325955597 768240 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :success is mostly an illusion < 1325955597 927024 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: how many phd's do you have? < 1325955628 633336 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :more time is spent discussing the rules of chess than playing chess < 1325955639 949588 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the actual pieces are like a distant memory < 1325955673 638076 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my mom is extraordinarily inefficient at walking up and down the passageway here at 4am < 1325955684 428183 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its like she takes the maximum walking path < 1325955714 602277 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that's an np-complete problem so she might be smarter than you think. < 1325955780 378248 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well actually certainly not < 1325955808 796265 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well depends on what you mean by maximal < 1325955809 114398 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhm.. ok what she does is.. she doesn't queue up tasks at locations.. instead she goes back and forth between locations < 1325955815 316325 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but maybe the edge problem is more natural < 1325955850 856289 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the only reason this bothers me, is that my brothers hearing is too good.. < 1325955862 595368 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and everything makes him angry < 1325955877 448741 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see, i see < 1325955887 669502 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't have brothers < 1325955888 797262 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and part of him blames my mom for all that is wrong in his life which he kind of admits once < 1325955913 214132 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :has he considered blaming himself? < 1325955933 448824 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so.. to me.. its like when my mom makes noise, she is hitting a hornets nest with a stick < 1325955938 839754 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although she has the right to < 1325955949 713796 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well.. he bought 2 books.. 1 about anger, 1 about shame < 1325955961 156556 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :shame? < 1325955962 148784 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, he means well on some level < 1325955966 543779 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup < 1325955972 146802 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is he ashamed < 1325955983 797254 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dunno.. and probably dangerous to ask him :D < 1325955997 160905 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :awesome family you have there < 1325956005 477907 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah its not so bad < 1325956009 43919 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :if only you were 18 and could move away < 1325956015 896669 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1325956020 669230 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lot of my problems is in me though < 1325956035 139822 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've got a nice round number. < 1325956035 615687 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that i am basically the cause of my problems < 1325956052 579955 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have trouble with everyone i meet since i was child < 1325956054 999843 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: which number? < 1325956065 41878 :derdon!~derdon@p5DE89AD0.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325956068 54494 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: is it because you keep telling them that you suck and they get tired of it? < 1325956081 369483 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you considered letting them find out on their own? < 1325956097 275695 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: Goodbye < 1325956114 392881 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zero, the roundest number. (Well, I suppose that's a matter of definition.) < 1325956144 68122 :Slereah!~butt@ANantes-259-1-217-73.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's true < 1325956155 821206 :Slereah!~butt@ANantes-259-1-217-73.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't round it down to the nearest 10^n! < 1325956166 928036 :Slereah!~butt@ANantes-259-1-217-73.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's already all rounded! < 1325956181 786759 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 1 isn't? < 1325956185 246225 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: part of what i have become now involves telling people how i want them to see me.. i can't just stop it < 1325956207 361529 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: you cannot stop it even with new people you meet? < 1325956241 89732 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my behaviour is basically uniform < 1325956243 372511 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's certainly understandable not to be able to change your role amongst people you already have a history with, but new people are a chance to modify yourself. < 1325956269 98808 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i may be cursed < 1325956289 542757 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds likely. < 1325956337 747254 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have become refuse of society < 1325956342 476596 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes my hands start bleeding uncontrollably and i hear a choir of angels that tells me to kill myself and everyone around me. < 1325956353 79829 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i have a hunch i know how you feeel < 1325956354 530665 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :*feel < 1325956413 245764 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the way it works is the weaker someone is, the more severely is the punishment if they stand up for themselves < 1325956420 45849 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does it mean to be refuse of society < 1325956427 663062 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :since in a very subtle way, it is like a class war < 1325956446 925915 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :stand up for themselves? i have no idea how that concept applies to modern society. < 1325956581 533766 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: he means he's literally trash from society. < 1325956584 943528 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :stand up to who? my family? my friends? my coworkers? < 1325956596 592785 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is who i have to stand up to day to day? < 1325956603 467285 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can it work? < 1325956609 126349 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah and i'm not sure what you mean by that < 1325956618 962195 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why should they be the enemy? < 1325956629 467743 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :are they telling you to do things? will they hurt you if you don't? < 1325956657 281188 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can someone stand up to everyone? < 1325956672 386809 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: like someone's poop that learned to talk? that would be impressive. < 1325956686 366898 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: what is "standing up to someone"? < 1325956713 588546 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i never quite understood < 1325956737 400692 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats how society works... the ones in real trouble are the ones where their closest humans have turned against them < 1325956775 427524 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, if someone turns against you, you walk away from them? < 1325956823 42215 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely i can't be the only one < 1325956830 601970 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i bet you aren't < 1325956854 331030 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :an undercurrent becomes established < 1325956874 583040 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well at least my dad wasn't abusive alcoholic < 1325956884 554916 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so.. i see that on tv shows < 1325956887 837612 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is for some < 1325956908 763808 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :he was in his own words( :-P ) perfect < 1325956925 656420 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t Map.! < 1325956926 291124 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :parse error on input `Map.!' < 1325956938 430209 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t Map.(!) < 1325956939 224402 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: data constructor `Map' < 1325956941 934205 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (Map.!) < 1325956942 668011 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Couldn't find qualified module. < 1325956982 862108 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, when my father died.. i slowly learned the world is a very lonely place < 1325956991 192817 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :my dad was a bit of an abusive alcoholic. i didn't really mind. < 1325957039 698354 :derdon!~derdon@p5DE89AD0.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1325957274 795411 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1325957292 509203 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the world feels like a lonely place, your friends probably suck < 1325957316 846227 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1325957338 180940 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric : :-) it wasn't their fault < 1325957343 655790 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should try kallisti for instance, he's a great friend < 1325957345 877457 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1325957359 282877 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well true, so maybe you can let them live. < 1325957400 349622 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first guy.. his father was some kind of abusive.. his mother divorced.. the older brother, in 2nd grade i was told would steal his mothers rings and make him take the blame for it < 1325957435 39927 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do not know what else happened to him < 1325957451 311419 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that still somehow magically affects his life? < 1325957461 74634 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is the best friend ever. < 1325957461 233064 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i will never understand people < 1325957484 310490 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no.. i knew him in 2nd grade :P < 1325957500 595095 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh okay. < 1325957613 924246 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :another guy, divorced parents again... living with his dad who had a string of failed relationships.. i ended up at the same school as him for people who were having trouble with school for some reason or other < 1325957623 685094 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dunno the full story of him < 1325957666 801118 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :second guy had .. endless stream of girlfriends.. then finally had a baby.. ended up leaving it apparently < 1325957685 238912 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dunno < 1325957695 82107 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have spent a long time with such weird people < 1325957737 399163 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and since i don't argue back, fight back.. eventually things always leads to abuse < 1325957758 852766 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :physical abuse? < 1325957776 556850 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :any sort < 1325957779 479512 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No; "FFS iti would you *please* shut up for once" abuse. < 1325957815 359495 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well your life certainly sounds interesting. < 1325957821 948809 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you should really stop bragging about it < 1325957842 606008 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you expect to keep living our perfect lives after that. < 1325957861 282697 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have to leave and be an asshole somewhere else, see you later :) < 1325957988 262976 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :since my father died, the motivation to program has started to dwindle.. hard to explain the deep rut.. withholding all my energy.. < 1325958000 507751 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t curry < 1325958001 300061 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b c. ((a, b) -> c) -> a -> b -> c < 1325958012 502486 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t uncurry < 1325958013 137791 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b c. (a -> b -> c) -> (a, b) -> c < 1325958016 100141 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you considered math, it's like programming but better < 1325958025 74621 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly they are the same thing < 1325958038 667785 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now.. you run along :D < 1325958041 731783 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd think < 1325958042 874103 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :programming is more like a subset of math. < 1325958049 8233 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :she has to brush her hair or something < 1325958053 730023 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the subset that's mostly concerned with computable things. < 1325958062 183105 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i have another 20 min < 1325958068 152750 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahhhh < 1325958070 153115 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :women < 1325958156 853182 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, theres combinatrics and lambda calculus right? < 1325958165 644684 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they are effectively capable of the same things right? < 1325958180 801336 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1325958184 596067 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^combinatorics < 1325958199 88414 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :combinatorics is like... counting things < 1325958243 604923 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure more interesting stuff happens in advanced combinatorics, but the introduction to combinatorics is always stuff like "how many poker hands are three of a kinds" and that sort of thing. < 1325958252 590333 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : women < 1325958252 748688 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : so, theres combinatrics and lambda calculus right? < 1325958255 444451 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Combinatrix. < 1325958261 750490 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::o < 1325958264 121063 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ... < 1325958282 340148 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats probably what i was thinking < 1325958283 650958 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Combinatrix and Lambda Calculus. < 1325958337 180096 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In the theory of computation, a diversity of mathematical models of computers have been developed." hmm.. < 1325958343 840306 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: combinatory logic and combinatoric are rather different things < 1325958344 633099 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :now that I've allowed elliott to pollute my program with typeclass magic I can't make sense of these type errors. < 1325958368 379858 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :*s < 1325958431 903395 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :combinatory logic is taking a subset of lc where you can only use some fixed set of functions, which are usually named, say s and k. < 1325958473 226580 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :combinatorics is where you say a mugglative set is a finite set with additional structure blah and then you ask how many mugglative sets exist < 1325958491 634909 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh mugglative < 1325958496 318162 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so many fun words. < 1325958513 267261 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately i don't think that's an actual term in math < 1325958516 824445 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and blah isn't either < 1325958544 346933 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :mugglative blah-theory < 1325958550 427716 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a concept called sex entropy though, have i mentioned < 1325958617 139047 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. < 1325958626 883201 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds fun. < 1325958635 809635 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu < 1325959756 933863 :MSleep!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net NICK :MDude < 1325960242 333473 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle Ptr a -> IO a < 1325960242 651385 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Foreign.Storable peek :: Storable a => Ptr a -> IO a < 1325960242 810242 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Foreign.Marshal.Alloc free :: Ptr a -> IO () < 1325960242 968834 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Network.Socket.Internal peekSockAddr :: Ptr SockAddr -> IO SockAddr < 1325960625 827257 :kallisti_!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325960716 31439 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1325961126 116961 :kallisti_!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell elliott do you think using Ix and switching elemFromEnum to an array implementation would be faster or slower than using Map? or does an Ix instance basically require the same kind of lookup code? < 1325961126 311797 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1325961221 287110 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-162-128-110.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325961797 838405 :PiRSquaredAway!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 NICK :PiRSquared17 < 1325961802 595954 :kallisti_!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net NICK :kallisti < 1325962072 22270 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-12-141.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1325962072 214950 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-12-141.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1325962072 215090 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1325962132 934839 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1325962997 422618 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1325963669 60730 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325963681 558858 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've just had an idea for an esolang! < 1325963699 506182 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A mixture of lambda calculus and the Copenhagen interpretation of quantum mechanics! < 1325963748 848861 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT WITHOUT QUANTUM MECHANICS! < 1325963755 48746 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, lambda calculus < 1325963773 156649 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... < 1325963780 619923 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It could be a functional extension to ORK... < 1325963892 467775 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is a magic box called Trevor. < 1325963996 536798 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :When the first thing is put into Trevor, Trevor is to turn the first thing into a magic box called Jean such that when the second thing is put into Jean it is turned into the first thing. < 1325964042 261993 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trevor = const < 1325964044 998246 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1325964112 423355 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, I know not enough about Ork at all.. < 1325964595 269788 :yiyus!1242712427@je.je.je QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1325964663 198768 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1325965283 842657 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325965404 268994 :yiyus!1242712427@je.je.je JOIN :#esoteric < 1325965426 682248 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what is a function? i feel like a jackass asking this again < 1325965432 494775 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1325965441 46843 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there any deep intuition of what a function is? < 1325965460 152661 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A function is a subroutine that returns a value < 1325965481 375521 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1325965495 257210 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1325965507 246804 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In some languages, in other languages it is THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN LIFE AND DEATH < 1325965520 898094 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if you use church numerals to encode back and forth between arabic numerals and church numerals < 1325965544 914185 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you reprhase that? I don't quite get what you mean < 1325965548 918316 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you use lambda calculus to write.. say.. ummm < 1325965553 14725 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well... < 1325965572 958320 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :suppose you have some number like 555 < 1325965578 9639 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you want to square it < 1325965598 865966 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you could find an encoding of 555 in lambda calculus < 1325965646 165298 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which i understand is like succ(succ(succ(zero))) with 555 succ < 1325965685 874307 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1325965691 27782 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then.. does there exist a lambda calculus expression for squaring a number.. which you could put next to your 555 < 1325965691 344369 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is the method of creating the Church numeral 555 that is the most simple < 1325965703 184309 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :\n f.n (n f) < 1325965743 116607 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let square = \n f -> n (n f) in square (ap (.) (join (,))) (+1) 0 < 1325965743 911575 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: a = a -> b < 1325965755 195342 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell doesn't like this < 1325965767 108205 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and.. then you take that result.. and convert it from a church numeral.. < 1325965780 9542 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :back to arabic numerals < 1325965811 750050 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is such a thing possible for any function one might find in a library such as c's math.h? < 1325965844 9441 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :With an appropriate representation for, eg, fractions, negative numbers, etc. < 1325965845 756631 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1325965866 66992 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, I know nothing about math.h, and very little about C < 1325965871 499527 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1325965876 731208 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hummmmm < 1325965964 679060 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone here play Sopio? < 1325966007 643634 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the whole process of course seems kind of longwinded if you consider the shorthand of 555 x 555 = 308025 .. but i figure theres better ways to store a number based on what you said etc < 1325966106 491217 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> ap (.) (join (.)) (+1) 0 < 1325966107 959251 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 3 < 1325966110 377341 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, at some stage, someone must kind of agree that computation based on strings of binary digits is more efficient than church numerals < 1325966128 780499 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then again.... maybe it will prove to be otherwise < 1325966133 959150 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl (\x y -> z) < 1325966134 275819 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :const (const z) < 1325966135 227780 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, church numerals is unary, not very efficient < 1325966148 494861 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :For large numbers < 1325966170 536541 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... < 1325966190 947162 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I'm going to make LC things for church lists of booleans < 1325966204 524679 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, it seems each scheme has a unique strength to it < 1325966293 957165 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :decimals are easy to compute with by hand < 1325966303 49603 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :binary is easy to compute with for a computer < 1325966337 655851 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Decimals are only easy to us because we are used to them < 1325966351 512506 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And we can count on our hands < 1325966373 103032 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :church can be performed by a computer and allows numbers to be used in lambda calculus < 1325966460 637474 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what i mean by performed is we are saved the burden by a computer < 1325966502 565325 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i assume that almost always optimized into binary < 1325966714 44340 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1325966736 8647 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, they do have another advantage over binary too for humans: I'm pretty sure I heard somewhere that we can only keep track of a limited amount of "units" in our short term memory. We can group stuff (like when you read out a telephone number to someone) to reduce several bits of information to one unit. Using binary would probably be less efficient there. I may be wrong about that last thing though. < 1325966767 493000 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're probably right < 1325966773 758872 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well.. its not just vs binary < 1325966782 547530 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I'm going to suck at TF2 now. < 1325966783 857226 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bye < 1325966787 679352 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be able to remember my telephone number in binary :P < 1325966790 902311 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i got to thinking < 1325966810 927923 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there could be an operation on a number where you do something to a number and it's reverse < 1325966811 123145 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's not so many good reasons to favour 10 over 16, though. < 1325966812 235911 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, anyway binary is useful for computers because it keeps the electronics simple. < 1325966826 730176 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, indeed. I'm not saying decimal is optimal < 1325966834 782686 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :just that binary isn't for a human. < 1325966844 176943 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: plurality of numeral encoding is revolting < 1325966848 661122 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :60 is comparatively common among human civilizations < 1325966849 610977 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, eh? < 1325966852 149071 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, what? < 1325966859 49598 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: plurality of numeral encoding is great < 1325966863 748447 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, ah yes, the Babylonians used that, right? < 1325966870 413844 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, so I believe < 1325966870 890075 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, you mean there are many bases? < 1325966874 865872 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, or what? < 1325966881 175212 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :more than bases even < 1325966885 540915 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well sure < 1325966891 409303 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are an infinite number of bases anyway < 1325966904 871928 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so anything else doesn't matter unless it is uncountable < 1325966905 192878 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean like say.. church numerals, electronic binary numerals, arabic decimal numerals < 1325966919 323928 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, why did you call it revolting? < 1325966929 477887 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because of the topic < 1325966934 641501 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, anyway I think we should count using gray code. :D < 1325966960 828807 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :godel numerals which i wouldnt know < 1325966991 854716 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, what is the topic then? < 1325967004 769018 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Official revolting channel of the frequent stupid topic change plurality, the Prequel: The Attack of the Nerds | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1325967009 843232 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1325967030 50861 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1325967034 104838 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you meant because of the topic of the discssion < 1325967037 9420 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :discussion* < 1325967040 139898 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but so yeah.. so i was thinking like func(2012) = 2012 + 2102; func(2012) = 2012 x 2102; func(2012) = 2012 - 2102; func(2012) = 2012 / 2102 < 1325967041 252232 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than because of the channel topic < 1325967043 370195 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hi < 1325967050 705255 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah.. it was ambiguous and weird of me < 1325967064 918448 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1325967083 264944 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, also those definitions of func are incompatible with each other < 1325967088 973921 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've actually spent most of the time since I was last online asleep < 1325967094 924096 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :true.. < 1325967100 900398 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a 24-hour period, I was awake for only about 3 hours or so in the middle < 1325967102 487680 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know what to name them < 1325967105 152432 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and maybe a fewm inutes at each end < 1325967116 409042 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know if such an operation is common < 1325967172 510889 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ouch < 1325967203 551398 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like ... func_blah1(12345) = 12345 + 54321; func_blah2(12345) = 12345 * 54321 < 1325967212 912443 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway I tried both the java.nio stuff with one thread and java.io with many threads and I have to say I find the async IO a lot more intuitive and easier to deal with. < 1325967223 379836 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yet it seems people prefer the thread approach? Why? < 1325967241 380851 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: because it means that things that should be independent, actually are < 1325967252 604412 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or to put it another way, a round-robin scheduler written by hand is not ideal for every application < 1325967283 982783 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was basically wondering if by taking a number and it's reverse as being 2 operands instead of 1, that you could compress the number < 1325967299 572478 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :with an extra bit of info saying whether to do this operation < 1325967351 870775 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, a) They are not independent connections, they interact, so they aren't independent. b) true, but it isn't like this is computational expensive. I'm not going to gain anything from SMP here. Probably I'll lose quite a bit if the threads end up on different CPUs due to the large amount of working with shared resources, that also need to be syncronized. < 1325967382 554722 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, in that case you have an unusual use pattern, and your solution might actually be best < 1325967439 461887 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, indeed, the only independent part is really the packet parsing, and that is quite trivial. Since it is a game server (and a small world) the threads all interact on the same shared state once the parsing is done. < 1325967462 298234 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :also turn based < 1325967505 495815 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/dDgO hi someone complain about this code. < 1325967521 188838 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, btw erlang does have a form of a sync IO, it is kind of unusual though, it is based on message passing < 1325967525 988485 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :async* < 1325967526 144879 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so like f(int a,bit b) = { if b == 0 return a; else return a * reversed_digits(a); } < 1325967572 617 :Zuu!zuu@unaffiliated/zuu QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1325967620 736291 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still not sure if I want to use the (File, Rank) coordinate system. < 1325967629 185327 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, basically you get a message to the process that tells you a socket is ready for IO, then you read like normal. (There is also a form that sends all the data as messages, but that is not recommended unless the rate of packets is rather low) < 1325967653 788742 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: hmm, that exists in Linux too < 1325967659 114127 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can request a SIGIO when data's available < 1325967659 272780 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :better yet func(5.0) = 5.0 x 0.5 = 2.5 ... yeesh this is absurd < 1325967699 58257 :Zuu!zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric < 1325967725 346598 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well, erlang has quite a bit more advanced message passing than plain signals. I believe you actually get the first packet of data (and a flag for if there is any more) when you put it in the trigger-once mode I described. < 1325967760 157401 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or func(a^b) = a^b * b^a < 1325967795 315459 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway for linux that sounds rather inefficient. Unless SIGIO has a payload saying which fd it was. < 1325967852 415527 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yep, it can have a payload < 1325967861 774561 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although you have to specifically request one, probably for backwards compatibility < 1325967866 574869 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1325967941 449018 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if doing map lookups on each access is worth the trouble of having a continguous 64 byte representation of the portal chess game state. < 1325967956 99876 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's certainly memory efficient. < 1325967967 885389 :Zuu!zuu@unaffiliated/zuu QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1325967991 349010 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, in general erlang networking is unusual. I don't know any other high level language with built in support for SCTP for example. Or that has it's own DNS resolver that it uses if the OS doesn't provide one. < 1325968031 275287 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I have no idea what sort of systems the latter was meant for) < 1325968041 813606 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :microwaves < 1325968132 825174 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :something that doesn't have an OS. < 1325968138 911430 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1325968146 855185 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erlang is basically a standalone mini-OS. < 1325968155 582382 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, might be for some sort of embedded target. Erlang runs on vxworks for example. < 1325968213 935365 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, also I know other environment that transparently lets you send an open file descriptor to another computer and have it work properly :P < 1325968267 208816 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell should get library support for that kind of stuff. < 1325968269 481605 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(might not necessarily be efficient though, but iirc you can tell the VM about nfs mounts and such so it can make use of shared files. < 1325968297 481212 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, also hot-swapping currently executing code :P That might be more annoying in haskell. < 1325968320 938643 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm familiar with that one. < 1325968325 534373 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it takes a bit of effort to get that working. < 1325968343 306207 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :their framework thing is kind of weird. < 1325968349 572394 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :in erlang or in haskell? < 1325968356 650660 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :erlang < 1325968361 242555 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :you do need to provide code if the state representation changed < 1325968365 491427 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1325968375 498512 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously < 1325968393 442996 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell solution: write perfect code that never needs to change < 1325968429 167746 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, but apart from that if you use the built in behaviours (such as gen_server) it is trivial < 1325968453 709752 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, anyway I wrote my own module doing this once where gen_server, gen_fsm and so on weren't suitable. It was quite easy < 1325968468 157809 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I couldn't really make sense of their documentation on those. < 1325968474 699688 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just use the proc_lib module < 1325968479 62478 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I recally being very confused at the time of reading. < 1325968496 262101 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also hi everyone: complain about my Haskell < 1325968499 634389 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/dDgO < 1325968500 743484 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and sys I believe < 1325968509 623759 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, about gen_server? < 1325968510 98256 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: complain < 1325968524 753530 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: the whole thing. I don't remember the name of it. they gave it some weird name. < 1325968529 303070 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, eh, basically you implement a callback module and gen_server provides the event loop and such. < 1325968530 810871 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :their library thing. < 1325968549 170014 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, err they gave their db library a weird name, is that what you mean? < 1325968565 385088 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think so. < 1325968569 626761 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, mnesia? < 1325968573 334443 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : also hi everyone: complain about my Haskell < 1325968574 365593 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never used it < 1325968575 674186 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I recall gen_server being part of like some standard erlang pattern that had a weird name < 1325968579 155821 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something. < 1325968624 335726 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I can only assume you're writing a huge reply about how terrible my code is. < 1325968627 347649 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is good. < 1325968628 139950 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, well you generally put your gen_servers in a supervisor tree, to allow error-recovery if a process crashes. < 1325968634 312447 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, no, I'm not < 1325968635 303715 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that isn't really weird < 1325968646 99903 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought people thought you were asking them to complain about Erlang < 1325968654 441438 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1325968658 487415 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does that even happen < 1325968660 432690 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, no? < 1325968710 61257 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's currently the best portal chess implementation in the world. still in the early alpha stages. < 1325968717 758499 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, anyway erlang is quite nice. Sure there are some issues with it, but nothing major enough to make me dislike it. < 1325968733 967527 :Zuu!zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric < 1325968737 731047 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, it is also the only one :P < 1325968745 513513 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I recall the line seperators being annoying, but I'm sure I'd get used to it. < 1325968751 353961 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh that < 1325968760 251182 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that annoyed me for like the first week or so < 1325968765 217936 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm used to it now < 1325968774 17844 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src lines < 1325968774 177415 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source not found. And you call yourself a Rocket Scientist! < 1325968811 935747 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I profile later and find that I need some more speed in my indexing function then I might rewrite that general Enum-maker thing that elliott wrote with some hardcoded arithmetic. < 1325968875 966130 :DCliche!~Klisz@c-67-162-128-110.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325968918 735694 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :honestly it's not much at the moment. Just a definition of the game board, code to set up the board's initial configuration, an indexing function, and a map function. < 1325969091 628659 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-162-128-110.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1325969173 667001 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the physical version of the game should use actual mirrors and penlights :P < 1325969191 519777 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :except that nothing in the game actually corresponds to a mirror < 1325969199 660315 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1325969203 112239 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right.. just portals < 1325969206 666246 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool cool < 1325969227 1027 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :something or other just disregard my comment < 1325969241 841729 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :In that case, it should just use actual portals. < 1325969260 220600 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally does a pen light create a beam as it bounces off a mirror? < 1325969294 307296 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pen laser might be the term < 1325969318 750428 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :disregard that also......... < 1325969334 286467 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, I would suggest you do not look at the reflection of a laser. < 1325969385 778895 :Guest554115!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net NICK :Guest554116 < 1325969399 956422 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :would it bounce off neatly like a >| ? < 1325969414 981709 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, I recall the safety instructions on the physics labs. There was a list of the different gruesome ways lasers of different wavelengths mess up your eyes. Like, if it's infrared, the eye-closing reflex won't happen, and it'll boil some stuff, and so on. < 1325969426 516708 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, heh < 1325969433 285057 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't recall lasers even being involved in any of the tasks. < 1325969434 711658 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes like usual in mirrors < 1325969442 312329 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, ^ < 1325969458 957980 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, so you would get pretty much the same result as looking straight into a laser < 1325969464 125567 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, which is obviously bad < 1325969480 615128 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i meant looking on from the side < 1325969500 65388 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you wouldn't see any beam anyway unless the air was dusty < 1325969511 991731 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or if it's bright enough. < 1325969529 918840 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, okay, not if it's really non-dusty and non-humid. < 1325969534 529139 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I don't think you can ever see a laser beam passing through a transparent medium? < 1325969535 362910 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok suppose someone has just slammed a bag of flour on the ground yet remembered to keep the mirror clean < 1325969544 879472 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, maybe if it turns the air to plasma? < 1325969552 234457 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1325969556 41252 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then you have other problems < 1325969568 767940 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, eh. No idea < 1325969570 513496 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and somehow you bounce a laser off this mirror, through flour < 1325969577 914656 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you think you would get a bounce? < 1325969578 73499 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :"good luck" < 1325969580 653639 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well, no, but "air" in most places isn't absolutely free of particles. < 1325969583 990784 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok :D < 1325969607 987364 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well yes, but is it usually enough to actually see the laser? < 1325969610 684793 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Anyway, it's got molecules in it. < 1325969621 256808 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: "Higher-power and higher-frequency green or blue lasers may produce a beam visible even in clean air because of Rayleigh scattering from air molecules, especially when viewed in moderately-to-dimly lit conditions." < 1325969624 708787 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :this evening's morbid discovery: there is apparently a small bird hanging from the neighbor's flag. < 1325969629 707190 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ooh, cool < 1325969631 490468 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok i understand the point here.. light is only visible when it is reflected off something < 1325969668 780267 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Such pointers, particularly in the green-light output range, are used as astronomical-object pointers for teaching purposes." < 1325969671 953769 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err rather < 1325969674 652506 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, light not hitting your eye is not visible :P < 1325969689 896699 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1325969708 699353 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, and if a laser pointing away from you isn't reflected off something it isn't going to hit your eye < 1325969732 791837 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(sorry, i still don't have a camera.) < 1325969746 319954 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, what about your cell phone? < 1325969757 436912 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :neither does that. < 1325969765 542849 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, also is the bird dead? < 1325969776 531054 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or just "hanging out"? < 1325969790 396846 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: deep frozen, if i judge by the sound effects of its hitting the flag pole. < 1325969800 921427 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, how does it stay up? < 1325969810 59924 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, rather than fall to the ground? < 1325969833 742790 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looked like the end of the flag had twirled around it a bit < 1325969861 107494 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess its claws got stuck to it < 1325969875 46802 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1325969884 810669 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, so not a rope around the neck then? < 1325969905 970046 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a little hard to see in the dark, but it looked like a birdy shape < 1325969926 142530 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I meant a rope around the neck of the bird... < 1325969926 775623 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :tail and head visible < 1325969952 11354 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(hm hanging wouldn't work on birds, they could just hover to avoid it killing them) < 1325969953 915127 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no... i'd guess bumping into the flag pole would tend to do the killing < 1325969972 376178 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to the wind < 1325969979 679459 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I'm surprised, birds bumping into windows and such doesn't tend to kill them. Hm. < 1325969997 596547 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't? < 1325969998 784669 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i've definitely seen a bird killed by bumping into a window < 1325970001 162542 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't tend to die* < 1325970007 469380 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes they do die from that. < 1325970025 406370 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact it was a pretty eerie omen when it happened, just before my mom died < 1325970051 98026 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, no? I seen various small birds eating old fermenting fruit lying around, getting drunk, flying into a window, fall down, lie around for a few minutes and then get up < 1325970058 734884 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, ouch < 1325970107 104351 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is rönn in English hm < 1325970114 211452 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sorbus_aucuparia < 1325970120 925249 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, usually those fruits ^ < 1325970154 122145 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :very sour fruits. < 1325970156 66378 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Window collisions kill as many as 100 million birds every year in the United States, more than every other cause of death (including outdoor cats, cell phone towers, and wind turbines) combined", says a newspaper. (Disclaimer: no idea about reliability.) < 1325970169 175173 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm < 1325970186 137727 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Certainly they don't *always* die from it. < 1325970200 110675 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, never seen a bird die from a window collision, probably does happen though. Maybe the Swedish birds are smarter? ;) < 1325970245 825783 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i'd assume it depends on the speed of the bird < 1325970260 148699 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :So maybe the Swedish birds are just lazier. < 1325970262 53194 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :if they're drunk, they probably don't do very high speed flying < 1325970280 910092 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: sure? drunk drivers often drive faster then non-drunk drivers < 1325970287 740842 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although sometimes they drive very slowly instead < 1325970299 936365 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yeah but they don't have to use their own muscle power :P < 1325970308 915947 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Drunk runners don't run so terribly fast, I don't think. < 1325970313 869006 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or straight. < 1325970370 760012 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I never seen a non-drunk bird collide with windows. Might depend on what sort of birds you have in the area. It is mostly various small birds (house sparrow and other birds of that sort of size) and jackdaws around here. < 1325970381 890376 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :And iirc jackdaws are rather smart for being birds. < 1325970434 473484 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well i didn't _see_ it colliding, i heard a *bang* and found a dead bird afterwards < 1325970479 670881 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, well I never claimed to count actually seen collisions < 1325970488 121728 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :err to only* < 1325970517 508896 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I never found any other evidence either for such deadly collisions < 1325970533 462480 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :has anyone complained about my Haskell yet? < 1325970535 564529 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/dDgO < 1325970666 895104 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gads, was there a way to stop Google from messing around with outgoing links? The "copy link address" is so useless now. < 1325970699 405191 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, using a firefox addon for that works < 1325970709 587412 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :customizegoogle iirc < 1325970715 636008 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Meh." < 1325970717 206753 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :does this mean birds would enter houses often if the windows weren't there? < 1325970736 544291 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The commonly accepted explanation is that it's the reflection that confuses them. < 1325970741 939673 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :They think there's empty space ahead. < 1325970744 838125 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this the sound of people complaining about my Haskell? < 1325970748 486355 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, that doesn't explain water < 1325970751 977174 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems oddly unlikely that. < 1325970754 199111 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :-ly < 1325970757 728650 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :werjiwejrojwetjwoerj owiejr oiwjertoijweoirjwoeitjoiwjeroijwetoijweoirjwoietjiowjer < 1325970766 93125 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, nobody cares? < 1325970775 455792 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: maybe they think its water < 1325970777 423346 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: the complaints seem to suffer from an elliott deficiency < 1325970785 193655 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :alas. < 1325970799 715914 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Birds have had a rather longer to come to grips with water than vertical sheets of glass. (Also water surfaces are, I suppose, mostly horizontal.) < 1325970807 88970 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, usually birds doesn't try to fly straight into water like that though. Not unless they are like seagulls < 1325970817 40860 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And rarely flat.) < 1325970818 983730 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, true < 1325970835 553524 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, on a calm day you can find flat ponds and such < 1325970860 657782 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :when we invent proper force fields we can test how birds react to vertical water. < 1325970861 612181 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes. Still, not flat vertical ponds, for the most of the time. < 1325970867 401008 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1325970874 466012 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: In the interests of science. < 1325970884 935372 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok probably not water < 1325970889 940127 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: precisely! < 1325970908 892868 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, and waterfalls are usually not reflective hm < 1325970953 891510 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is not for us to know < 1325970963 848574 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, anyway normal glass doesn't really let UV-light through right? < 1325970969 692334 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and iirc birds can see a bit into UV < 1325970980 522555 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, bird-window collisions are a much-studied thing; cf. http://training.fws.gov/EC/Resources/mig_birds/handouts/Window_Collision_Bibliography.pdf < 1325970985 322705 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I guess it couldn't be that they see through it, but rather it must be the reflection < 1325971020 732635 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I wonder if normal glass looks like a mirror in UV < 1325971025 372820 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it may be different shades of UV that's involved < 1325971026 570659 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yeah i have heard of such kind of senses.. specifically in some kind of magic shrimp < 1325971031 375978 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well yes < 1325971032 171429 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ultraviolet range is much larger than the visible range < 1325971040 781147 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1325971042 606638 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm moderately sure that at least near UV can get through glass < 1325971063 900540 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just wonder how much of UV that birds can see < 1325971102 280571 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and yes I very much doubt that glass exactly matches the visible range of humans < 1325971168 596050 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: among other things, it transmits green better than other colors < 1325971177 74165 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you ever look at a sheet of glass edge-on, that will be reasonably obvious < 1325971183 204911 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes I know < 1325971185 132570 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott, but can it be implemented without having implemented seq first? <-- no, you need to do a type-specific pattern match and for functions even that doesn't work (and seq in fact forces the semantics of functions to change so \x -> undefined x is no longer the same as undefined, i.e. breaking eta equivalence) < 1325971206 195554 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, looks like green with a slight blue tint < 1325971240 307413 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you can't really notice it unless edge on though. Hm. < 1325971245 946530 :Zuu!zuu@unaffiliated/zuu QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1325971252 251729 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or I guess very thick layer of glass < 1325971273 62384 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1325971370 393789 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.tate.org.uk/research/tateresearch/tatepapers/05spring/images/charman_fig2.gif -- 'a' is claimed to be standard window glass. < 1325971389 697089 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, and b and c? < 1325971418 390118 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fromEnum (Just False) < 1325971419 183014 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (GHC.Enum.Enum (Data.Maybe.Maybe GHC.Bool.Bool)) < 1325971419 342515 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising... < 1325971438 281496 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: b is specifically "colourless" and "UV-absorbing" sort of glass; c is some sort of UV-absorbing acrylic. < 1325971454 402837 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and d is some sort of optimal? < 1325971461 133107 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And d is some sort of "ideal" UV filter, yes. < 1325971487 700117 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's in context of UV protection for covered paintings. < 1325971493 359587 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1325971525 190980 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably b is the best solution unless the colours are such that the cut-off of the acrylic doesn't matter < 1325971562 583067 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1325971758 410225 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's stop lying about monads please < 1325971767 869356 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :who did that? < 1325971809 129001 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no TOPIC #esoteric :Official revolting channel of the frequent stupid topic change plurality, the Prequel: The Revenge of the Monad | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1325971835 425830 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Also apparently one species of bird (European starling) has maximum responsivity at 362 nm, and still 40% at 300 nm, for one of its four types of cone cells, in case you were wondering how far into UV they go. < 1325971854 752556 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Also their cones seem to be rather more sensibly distributed than human ones: http://www.webexhibits.org/causesofcolor/images/content/Absorption_peaks.jpg < 1325971865 22822 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something to complain if you happen to meet your own designer. < 1325971872 510015 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Giving all the good eyes to some stupid birds. < 1325971948 602813 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well, I wouldn't want to change atm. It would mess up using monitors so badly. < 1325971952 648167 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.webexhibits.org/causesofcolor/images/content/Absorption_peaksZ.jpg -- that's a bit larger. < 1325971982 2626 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :if we ever meet aliens, they are going to find our color reproduction schemes hilarious < 1325971988 786605 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1325972011 514098 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, and we would probably find the same about them < 1325972012 532114 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :But with tetrachromatic vision they could sensibly use a 2x2 color filter pattern instead of going all RG/GB or so. < 1325972036 49540 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Three primaries is such an awkward number. < 1325972041 47705 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1325972055 679534 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I doubt it is arranged like RGGB in our eyes though < 1325972069 526870 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, anyway can't you tile a plane with triangles iirc? < 1325972072 105049 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also four components of 8 bits would fit nicely into a 32-bit quantity. (Though then you wouldn't have room for an alpha channel in there.) < 1325972081 488371 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course it is always made approximate < 1325972119 87918 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure you can, but grids are much easier. < 1325972121 62986 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you had a computer display that can change its wavelength then you could make better quality colors, probably < 1325972130 782010 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe if we'd also go to triangular monitors? < 1325972133 44196 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : fizzie, anyway can't you tile a plane with triangles iirc? < 1325972133 996079 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :....... < 1325972189 29882 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: unless the aliens have eyes based on actual spectography < 1325972218 615108 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Or maybe before we meet them we've just upgraded our eyes too. < 1325972227 318447 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, what? < 1325972241 969846 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :'iirc'. < 1325972242 128961 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, it is obviously possible if you consider it. < 1325972253 546789 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is not something you could trivially state to be correct. < 1325972284 397990 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I don't see the issue. I don't deal with tiling infinite planes on an every-day basis. *shrug* < 1325972289 172514 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: now prove that you can tile the plane with _any_ shape of triangle >:) < 1325972312 263009 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, rotate it 180°, fit two sides together. < 1325972313 533515 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, that is patently obvious. A proof might take a bit of work though < 1325972325 487781 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fit the resulting parallelograms into strips. < 1325972330 131863 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fit the strips together. < 1325972334 4795 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Can't you just take the equilateral triangle tiling and transform those triangles? < 1325972339 908420 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That too. < 1325972383 71899 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Dungeons&Dragons game my characters are the monster character some character might even have different number of eyes and some have dark vision probabily it is simplest to assume for purpose of game rules, you can everyone see colors in same way unless you are color blind. Otherwise you can make even more confusion than spell/etc! And I have already used relativity for resolving spells in D&D game, now this < 1325972402 807031 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to recall something about the "physics" of darkvision somewhere. < 1325972412 23887 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> logBase 2 64 < 1325972412 818171 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 6.0 < 1325972422 777641 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, that got cut off < 1325972424 86035 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: hm it's not entirely obvious that the transform will give triangles and upside down ones the same shape afterward (of course you can probably choose the transform to give what Phantom_Hoover said) < 1325972477 830866 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which afaict is the same as what i was thinking of) < 1325972483 209676 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Did it? My last words were ", now this" but I did not put any period at the end or anything like that sorry < 1325972490 930899 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, ah < 1325972500 328838 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325972535 92318 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1325972605 102270 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Olé < 1325972820 64908 :Zuu!zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric < 1325973167 870950 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fromEnum False < 1325973168 505792 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 0 < 1325973202 854887 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu < 1325973446 157411 :Zuu!zuu@unaffiliated/zuu QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1325973456 273218 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :test = print (toEnum . fromEnum $ Square (Just (Piece White (Arrow North))) (Just (Loop North Bidirectional)) :: Square) < 1325973457 460860 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Well, assuming an affine map is enough to turn an equilateral triangle into any sort of triangle, T = [a1 a2 b1; a3 a4 b2; 0 0 1], R = [-1 0 0; 0 -1 0; 0 0 1], RTR = [a1 a2 -b1; a3 a4 -b2; 0 0 1], and that just means if you make the upside-down triangle (Rx), transform it (TRx), and rotate it again (RTRx) it just gets shifted to the opposite direction; that sounds quite obviously congruent with transformed right-side-up triangles (Tx). < 1325973465 648013 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*PortalChess> test < 1325973467 116563 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Square Nothing Nothing < 1325973470 246896 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :FFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUU < 1325973740 70731 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm I wonder why digital cameras use RGBG and such rather than triangular RGB sensors < 1325973756 358708 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ok congruent but possibly mirrored < 1325973757 984656 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :BECAUSE THEY LOVE GREEN < 1325973781 129694 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait < 1325973782 242863 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Possibly because people want to get rectangular images? < 1325973820 44423 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> quotRem 0 8 < 1325973820 878673 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : (0,0) < 1325973831 299107 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> quotRem 8 8 < 1325973832 92006 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : (1,0) < 1325973834 58874 :Zuu!zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric < 1325973844 389194 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, eh, you don't need to make the whole sensors triangular, just the elements < 1325973849 702120 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't really grasp homogeneous coordinates used that way < 1325973856 856406 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :although i assume that's what it is < 1325973858 552123 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :you get an uneven edge sure, but I don't see why that is a problem < 1325973892 214961 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, looks to me like the same way they are used in opengl kind of? < 1325973893 848791 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: could you maybe take a look at the Enum instances in this program and see if you see anything strange? http://sprunge.us/ALeN < 1325973899 350896 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is that what you don't grasp? < 1325973922 200143 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I seem to be getting zeros something. Because my test case becomes Square Nothing Nothing < 1325974017 513413 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: i think i have another intuitive argument that affine transformations do what you say, though. (just assume it keeps the triangle base fixed) < 1325974048 441190 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i'm just not very used to actually using them < 1325974056 279942 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, ah < 1325974102 278755 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I found it < 1325974104 656731 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1325974133 519941 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :noep < 1325974146 378400 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Come to think of it, if you nail one point of a triangle to (0,0), isn't a linear map enough to move the other two points anywhere you want, giving you the possibility of getting (right-side-up) triangles of any shape you could want? In that case you wouldn't even need to speak about homogenous coordinates, and RTR = T. < 1325974165 426493 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :then the midpoint of the base is also fixed, and it's on the line between the remaining vertices of the right-side up and upside down triangles when put on that same base, so those vertices are skewed to each side < 1325974202 756347 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: well yes, linear map = affine map fixing the origin < 1325974345 518851 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It might also be easier to manufacture grids. Anyway, they're not all using RGBG; some I think do (or at least it has been suggested) RGBW, where one pixel is transparent and therefore gets all wavelengths, in order to increase the overall light sensitivity of the sensor. < 1325974364 990351 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that's a bit analoguous to "three types of cones and then the rods" sort of arrangement. < 1325974393 742330 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And there was that one with an "emerald" pixel. :p < 1325974410 400910 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Which I think was named just because it sounds so good in PR literature.) < 1325974419 468835 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm < 1325974438 463640 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, so you mean some sort of extra colour humans can't see? < 1325974443 384236 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or well, not directly < 1325974452 889 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> quotRem 2 8 < 1325974452 635881 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : (0,2) < 1325974461 153998 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> quotRem 10 8 < 1325974461 946463 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : (1,2) < 1325974465 553935 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: in your Enum PieceInfo, you have some toEnum x 's that should be toEnum m < 1325974478 504028 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes I spotted that, but it didn't fix anything.. < 1325974506 913962 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :same output < 1325974510 295261 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that case never happened < 1325974548 482859 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm guessing it's some minor mismatch of variables somewhere < 1325974556 406918 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm tired and can't spot it. :P < 1325974612 868959 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well, they'd obviously transform those to (sRGB or someRGB) pixels in post-processing; but you already need to do that "demosaicing" thing for RGBG sensors since the R, G and B samples are from different locations, and I guess you might get more accurate reproduction with four types of samples, I don't know? < 1325974675 496586 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, I've sometimes wondered if any cameras, if you turn a "black-and-white" mode on, produces "double-resolution" images. < 1325974761 756605 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to recall that dcraw has a flag for that. < 1325974794 176566 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"-d: Show the raw data as a grayscale image with no interpolation. Good for photographing black-and-white documents. < 1325974794 332904 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :-D: Same as -d, but totally raw (no color scaling)." < 1325974799 511668 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, that small-d one. < 1325974882 743193 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Enum Piece has a mismatch between fromEnum and toEnum, i think < 1325974885 517966 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose for a colour scene you won't get very good "greyscale" images from the individual filtered pixels. < 1325974992 681219 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1325975093 164948 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325975199 304419 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : fromEnum (Piece p i) = (fromEnum p * 21) + fromEnum i < 1325975199 460302 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : toEnum i = let (d,m) = i `quotRem` 21 < 1325975200 455682 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : in Piece (toEnum d) (toEnum m) < 1325975204 261987 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, I suppose camera sensor pixel counts count all "subpixels" separately and then reconstruct an image with an RGB pixel at each spatial location, no matter which color channel was sampled at that point? If so, then it's a bit asymmetric w.r.t. monitors, since nobody there advertises the subpixel counts. < 1325975205 785518 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: is the current definition < 1325975210 185741 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that one is correct. < 1325975225 779063 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm true < 1325975274 983354 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: yes that's what i thought < 1325975310 602019 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...still broken. :P < 1325975311 553154 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't see any other Enum errors, although that's a horrible mess of compile time constants < 1325975318 726661 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, indeed. < 1325975331 640320 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could make bounded instances as well. < 1325975333 543021 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t fromEnum < 1325975334 337493 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Enum a) => a -> Int < 1325975337 433534 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1325975343 599740 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: you fixed that PieceInfo part too? < 1325975348 560773 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t toEnum < 1325975349 195130 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Enum a) => Int -> a < 1325975357 957900 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes. < 1325975410 534327 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle Piece < 1325975410 890063 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :package path-pieces < 1325975411 48453 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :package TimePiece < 1325975415 410281 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :no... < 1325975419 536131 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src Piece < 1325975419 892385 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source not found. Sorry. < 1325975422 509491 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well < 1325975439 385130 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I have heard of cameras that don't do the Bayer filter thing at all, and instead include three separate CCD sensors and some sort of a prism-splitter thing in the middle. (Apparently mostly in professional video recording use.) < 1325975448 147511 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: sheesh it's from kallisti's program < 1325975452 353704 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, oh < 1325975461 779918 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, WHY CAN'T HOOGLE INDEX ALL RELEVANT CODE! < 1325975483 362811 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ah yes I heard about those too < 1325975489 507313 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you can thank elliott for convincing me to take this route (well, he eventually suggested a cleaner way but this one will be more efficient (blah blah blah profile before you optimize stuff etc)) < 1325975511 15792 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: have you remembered to reload/recompile? >:) < 1325975519 711813 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :....yes < 1325975524 191803 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless :l doesn't recompile < 1325975540 966174 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :use :r just in case < 1325975561 674741 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Square Nothing Nothing < 1325975573 624755 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll try some different inputs < 1325975577 79703 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :see if I can get something different. < 1325975578 217383 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: do you have a smaller breaking test case? < 1325975599 199774 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can replace either of the two fields with a Nothing and it will still break like that < 1325975617 341864 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :what happens if you convert a field by itself? < 1325975678 470340 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, give me the smallest breaking value whose parts don't break < 1325975685 888995 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :TO THE SCIENCE LAB < 1325975690 959527 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHERE WE EXPERIMENT IN /COMPUTER SCIENCE/ < 1325975720 924957 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, be careful of any lasers < 1325975731 486894 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well sheesh now that you're forcing me to do thorough testing I can probably just find it myself. < 1325975749 253548 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :viaInt x = (toEnum $ fromEnum x) `asTypeOf` x might be useful < 1325975773 982861 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Oh, and dpreview mentioned this really fancy "Foveon X3" sensor, which works really magically, by sticking three sensors on top of each other and using the fact that light of different wavelength is absorbed at different depths in silicon: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foveon_X3_sensor -- that's so clever. < 1325975793 998433 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...oh < 1325975798 962181 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, nice < 1325975877 963438 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: you realize that would have been easier than trying to mentally check the code in the first place, right? < 1325975943 862440 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: but testing is tedious < 1325975963 424365 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION logic < 1325975993 161340 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1325976051 202768 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it would appear that the smallest breaking test case is the one I started with. < 1325976060 446851 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only one that messes up is the Square type < 1325976083 724116 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmph < 1325976127 91234 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: can i get the actual fromEnum value of your test case? < 1325976142 151909 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, very cool indeed < 1325976156 495571 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, how are the sensors placed in human eyes? < 1325976171 336741 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: all these good ideas... where do they come from? :P < 1325976171 973829 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and about how many megapixels do human eyes produce? < 1325976190 238648 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I've seen some pictures somewhere; "rather messily", and the resolution depends very heavily on the angle. < 1325976197 97118 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm okay < 1325976202 855720 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :All in all, it's clear it hasn't been designed by an *engineer*. < 1325976206 347894 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1325976206 507939 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably an arts guy. < 1325976209 404021 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1325976218 126248 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh hmmm 434 < 1325976240 911832 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 434 `quotRem` 17 < 1325976241 704701 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : (25,9) < 1325976286 382964 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I mean, look at this stuff: http://www.phys.ufl.edu/~avery/course/3400/vision/rod_cone_distribution2.jpg < 1325976298 187317 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, so what about the average resolution? And what about the resolution near the center? < 1325976347 22888 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, so uh in dark humans see best towards the sides? < 1325976364 888025 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. But note that it's not very much towards the sides. < 1325976368 932154 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ten degrees isn't all that much. < 1325976375 131022 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1325976377 390961 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1325976385 166808 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also you don't really see any colors except right in the middle. < 1325976407 181395 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, there seem to be a few cones towards the sides, just very few < 1325976409 122904 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so hm < 1325976412 175411 :iconmaster!~iconmaste@cpe-74-79-18-174.twcny.res.rr.com QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1325976450 983444 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I can kind of see that the floor is greenish in the corner of my eye, not sure how much that is because I know what colour it is or because I can see a bit of it < 1325976451 618002 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently there's in total some 120 million rods and 6-7 million cones. < 1325976461 119528 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I fear I will need more than a Word8 to store board squares. :P < 1325976495 796009 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, doesn't that work out to 120 MP for the first (if it was evenly distributed and so on?) < 1325976504 936459 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: btw when you said every subpart works correctly, does that include the Maybes? < 1325976520 626884 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh.. < 1325976520 782794 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes, that's how many "pixels" there are. < 1325976523 406713 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't check those. < 1325976525 150441 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually < 1325976526 103009 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :forgot < 1325976532 101138 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, quite a good resolution < 1325976532 260598 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet they result in Nothings < 1325976537 37090 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something < 1325976539 296641 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's fine out < 1325976561 860366 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, sounds like a fine idea < 1325976582 660198 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: oh wait, found the bug :D < 1325976613 809400 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :toEnum for Maybe misses the Just and so recurses down to Nothing < 1325976647 935379 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh... < 1325976670 733165 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the joys of overloaded functions. < 1325976761 71850 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least it bothered to terminate by accident < 1325976789 459000 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep seems fine now. < 1325976813 391364 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: As for the angular resolution at the center, apparently that's somewhere around 0.3 arc-minutes. So you need almost 600 ppi at a distance of 50 cm to get over that. < 1325976826 76691 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION does the victory dance < 1325976843 908545 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, heh < 1325976845 18391 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's an impressive sensor, sure, but it still feels quite haphazardly designed. I mean, with that blind spot and all. < 1325976857 934333 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, that would be one amazing monitor < 1325976878 218739 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably would require a much better GPU if I wanted a reasonably large monitor as well < 1325976882 26009 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The blind spot is an especially good example since it's completely unnecessary. < 1325976900 788475 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yes the nerves could just go straight back a bit instead first < 1325976905 197283 :kallisti_!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325976925 612039 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, and they do in some species. < 1325976930 374959 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1325976978 748189 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, do humans have one nerve per rod/cone or are they combined early on? < 1325977018 348313 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1325977033 144262 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1325977038 604243 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I think they're summed up; that's part of the angular resolution calculations. < 1325977045 983444 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In the fovea, which has high acuity, these ganglion cells connect to as few as 5 photoreceptor cells; in other areas of retina, they connect to many thousand photoreceptors." < 1325977053 808401 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1325977072 778249 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :So at the edges you've got both sparser distribution and less nerves. < 1325977079 858582 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1325977095 435278 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, they managed to keep the noise level down though < 1325977104 762718 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless my brain is outsmarting me again < 1325977115 537757 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brains are good at lying. < 1325977118 730000 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, to themselves too. < 1325977127 804758 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes < 1325977151 558827 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I wonder how the SNR of the eye compares to the SNR of professional cameras < 1325977186 195383 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well mostly in the center. You get some very good averaging when you have a thousand samples < 1325977211 293752 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1325977288 941960 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it does do averaging over time too. < 1325977326 483946 :kallisti_!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (21 * 2 + 1) * (8 * 2) < 1325977327 277079 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 688 < 1325977330 700753 :kallisti_!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm. < 1325977333 157680 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325977348 57520 :kallisti_!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (21 * 2 + 1) * (8 * 2 + 1) < 1325977348 358468 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 731 < 1325977352 758508 :kallisti_!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there we go. < 1325977398 956899 :kallisti_!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: really this is code that GHC could autogenerate for product types where the fields are Bounded and Enum < 1325977427 968958 :kallisti_!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it would also be possible for sum types too < 1325977461 579109 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as they're bounded, yes < 1325977463 532663 :kallisti_!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :PieceInfo is a sum type, for example. it just calculates offsets < 1325977546 166041 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti_: you could get autogeneration if you made your product types newtypes over tuples instead >:) < 1325977561 787299 :kallisti_!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no thanks < 1325977581 514073 :kallisti_!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you actually suggesting what's considering bad practice in the Haskell community? shame on you. < 1325977587 881227 :kallisti_!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ed < 1325977650 380548 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well given that you cannot presently do generalized deriving for something with more than one field... < 1325977685 795788 :kallisti_!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Square (Just (Piece (White, Arrow North))) (Just (Loop (Northwest, Unidirectional))) < 1325977689 458656 :kallisti_!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks good < 1325977690 567494 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe they could make that an extension < 1325977718 692855 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Test ... = Test A B deriving (...) uses (A,B) to derive from < 1325977742 736572 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*would use < 1325977772 765830 :kallisti_!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes < 1325977783 517622 :kallisti_!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be good < 1325977789 462337 :kallisti_!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't there a way to derive typeclasses yourself? < 1325977792 791948 :kallisti_!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe someone has already done this. < 1325977801 155434 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's some template haskell stuff < 1325977940 565936 :kallisti_!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :one day I should use that for something. < 1325977944 276902 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and something based on autogenerating code, which you have to include in the program if not using template haskell < 1325978089 754631 :kallisti_!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :derivationParams :: String -> ([Type] -> (String -> Decl) -> FullDataDecl -> Either String [Decl]) -> Derivation < 1325978094 790060 :kallisti_!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :good type. for a bright future < 1325978112 49240 :kallisti_!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also: no documentation < 1325978167 747654 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :TYPES ARE ALL THE DOCUMENTATIN YOU NEED < 1325978189 491316 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION once again finds typo correction inappropriate < 1325978191 235055 :kallisti_!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the Either is a possible error message. < 1325978266 223399 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1325978421 576461 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :How should I make the Synthesizer datatype in my program? Probably it should have multiple constructors and recursive structues; I have one OctetStream constructor but I should need to have more, to do sine wave, additive, subtraction, I don't know what else, or exactly how they would be functioned < 1325978492 699376 :kallisti_!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :..what is this for. < 1325978568 952534 :kallisti_!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :for audio signals: Time -> Int and [(Time, Int)] are good < 1325978714 637881 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is for a program I make, in Haskell, to compile MML to S3M. To load samples, there are two ways, one way is from file, other way is from synthesis. < 1325978737 41944 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I don't know exactly how the mathematical synthesis should be represented in this program < 1325978791 395418 :kallisti_!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't just use an audio signal? < 1325978820 55888 :kallisti_!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in PCM format? < 1325978835 199185 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti_, seems a bit dumb for S3M at least (not sure what MML is) < 1325978861 657633 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti_, from what I remember S3M is a tracker file format. Like .mod or such < 1325978911 654756 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes I could use audio signal, and can be loaded from a file, but the way I am thinking, the other way is to use internal audio synthesis from mathematical formula but am unsure how to make it read the token to make a waveform synthesis from that. < 1325978936 283355 :kallisti_!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't know anything about these file formats. < 1325978965 127322 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is not needed to know about these file formats to answer my question < 1325979165 350546 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, what is MML though? Another tracker format? < 1325979174 776380 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, MML is music macro language < 1325979181 674082 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :never heard of it < 1325979184 294329 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you invent it? < 1325979188 663449 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :No < 1325979207 342886 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But there are many variants of MML although some features are common in most of them < 1325979208 386854 :kallisti_!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't sound like any actual synthesis is involed. but I don't know what MML does. < 1325979310 462069 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, MML looks like the thing that you can echo to the PC speaker device on FreeBSD to make it play < 1325979313 36603 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :MML doesn't itself do any audio synthesis; although one of the features I am adding is to enter the codes for creating the audio waveforms based on sine waves or envelopes or whatever < 1325979313 673193 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if it is the same < 1325979349 446977 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I ported that code to Linux using the same method as beep to play. Sadly none of of my current computers have a proper PC speaker < 1325979357 833931 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :those are getting rarer < 1325979366 555496 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I don't know about PC speaker on FreeBSD, but it might be. The PLAY command in QBASIC is a simple kind of MML, so is the PLAY in MegaZeux and the #PLAY in ZZT < 1325979397 727706 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, looks like pretty much the same as PLAY in QBASIC according to wikipedia, plus some extensions < 1325979420 391719 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What extensions? < 1325979431 114468 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, I don't remember exactly. Check the man page? < 1325979439 797078 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have FreeBSD < 1325979447 97904 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :they have man pages on their websites < 1325979452 967883 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1325979472 855072 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have written a PlayBP subroutine for use in QBASIC, which works the same as PLAY but using Bohlen-Pierce temperaments < 1325979532 197499 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?query=spkr&sektion=4&apropos=0&manpath=FreeBSD+8.2-RELEASE < 1325979556 291259 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can set articulation and such < 1325979577 378266 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :amusingly the source for that indicates ESR wrote it. < 1325979620 802774 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@ppp-70-251-230-64.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325979621 278800 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@ppp-70-251-230-64.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net QUIT :Changing host < 1325979621 434827 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan JOIN :#esoteric < 1325979708 364370 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/math/comments/o6o0o/having_an_existential_math_crisis_help/ < 1325979712 977694 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's itidus21! < 1325980053 56856 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, heh < 1325980182 836237 :kallisti_!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm afraid I don't really understand bitcoin < 1325980184 461788 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1325980332 204965 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have modified the MegaZeux code to allow its MML to specify any frequency instead of only the 12-TET notes, by using * and the frequency number to play that one < 1325980533 449579 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :night < 1325980639 780325 :DCliche!~Klisz@c-67-162-128-110.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: SLEEP, GLORIOUS SLEEP < 1325980707 407536 :kallisti_!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 6.5 * 5 < 1325980708 199633 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 32.5 < 1325980753 873745 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ya found me < 1325980772 453945 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tidus is trying to nut out the meaning of SK < 1325980786 8029 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and he is pretty close < 1325980836 882212 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: it might be best to understand lambda calculus in general first < 1325980848 480882 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1325980849 270873 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not for me < 1325980853 81125 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for most people maybe < 1325980882 867177 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, i like this presented idea of SK as gardening < 1325980891 313269 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you can see how SK(I) can be used to rewrite any lambda expression without variables < 1325980905 235092 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ive decided to pretend I doesn't exist < 1325980924 954688 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it complicates things too much < 1325980928 371636 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I = SKK, for example < 1325980950 177620 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric : >:-) < 1325980965 688575 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's redundant. but it's logically necessary to use some form of it for the rewriting. < 1325981001 609094 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :to handle \x . x < 1325981001 765211 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm.. bah.. i don't need lambda calculus < 1325981079 408015 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :What good has lambda calculus ever done, huh? < 1325981179 454087 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lot, but probably not enough to parody an entire monty python sketch. < 1325981186 827816 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's Lambda Calculus ever done for me, eh? < 1325981189 125670 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aw. < 1325981194 949228 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going back to the warm, waiting arms of the Combinatrix. < 1325981248 26534 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah do the combinator bird shop sketch instead < 1325981250 301361 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Are you sure lambda calculus wasn't involved when the aqueduct and sanitation were invented? < 1325981262 392880 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: well not _entirely_ sure < 1325981272 825157 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, this mockingbird is mocking me all the time! < 1325981273 141760 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1325981304 513339 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not mocking, it's just diagonalizing < 1325981328 855636 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Ooh, I just realized you must like the bird shop sketch because it involves fjords. < 1325981341 368863 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :We call them firths here. < 1325981350 684035 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Makes sense. You want to lazily instantiate your integes. Those things take up a lot of cycles. I think because PHP has to start with a float, then use the cpu fan to mill off the decimal point. < 1325981353 950671 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :As exemplified by the Firth of Forth, the best-named thing ever. < 1325981386 254747 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: that is a surprisingly good name, indeed < 1325981396 490147 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, look, my lad, I know mockery when I hear it and I am being mocked right now. < 1325981399 182789 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: actually i was thinking more of the cheese shop sketch here. do you have any owls? < 1325981478 155610 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goodnigt < 1325981479 503621 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :h < 1325981481 919062 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: Goodbye < 1325981634 803511 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION fjords for the pines < 1325981866 890825 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fjording the river. < 1325981883 519097 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( Sadc = ac(dc); Sa(dc) = Sa(dc); Sa(dc)b = ab((dc)b); ) < 1325981903 69554 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION fnords for the pies < 1325981917 144707 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay i can compute anything O.O < 1325981986 151716 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( Kab = a; K(ab) = K(ab); K(ab)c = (ab); ) < 1325982120 194473 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i am pretty dumb so i couldn't do much more than what i just typed at this stage < 1325982525 822754 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( (((Sa)d)c) = ((ac)(dc)); ((aK)(dK))b = ((aK)(dK))b; ) < 1325982630 220178 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( ((KK)(dK))b = (Kb); ) < 1325982985 851548 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1325983033 388383 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1325985016 110778 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1325985719 472250 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: later chat < 1325985866 988644 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no TOPIC #esoteric :Official revolting channel of the inverse femtobarn stupid topic change plurality, the Prequel: The Revenge of the Monad | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1325986401 894053 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, if I pick a random day of #haskell logs and search for your name, I can see you dealing with pretty much every kind of annoying question / behavior in that channel < 1325986407 259549 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's uncanny < 1325986417 43181 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :either you will burn out soon like me < 1325986423 457607 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or you are simply stronger < 1325986492 271847 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i don't understand how #haskell got so big anyway < 1325986575 166882 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh it's up to 815 people < 1325986963 49754 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-222-28.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems like, unlike most language channels, #haskell contains a very high proportion of the active Haskell community. < 1325987015 61544 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how are you defining "Haskell community" in such a way that this isn't definitionally true < 1325987027 185177 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-222-28.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vague handwavey nonsense. < 1325987048 214984 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think the people who write core libraries and production software in Haskell are under-represented on IRC < 1325987073 819426 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-222-28.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. Yeah, you don't see a lot of GHC devs in there I don't think... < 1325987096 196218 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-222-28.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or some of the more significant libraries. < 1325987114 380517 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-222-28.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, actually, who in #haskell does notable production software in Haskell? :P < 1325987122 385429 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's more fun to learn a little Haskell and talk about it all day < 1325987163 989350 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-222-28.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Programming sucks. Knowledge about programming is awesome." or some such? < 1325987173 168047 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah there's some of that < 1325987200 339066 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's worse with Haskell because there is so much to learn before it's actually a better tool for getting shit done < 1325987242 179281 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :most people are stuck at a stage where they only use Haskell on personal projects where "write this in Haskell" is an explicit goal < 1325987255 505026 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> iterate(show.length&&&take 1<= iterate((show.length&&&take 1)<= iterate((<**>[show.length,take 1]).group)"1" < 1325987510 306650 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `GHC.Types.Char' < 1325987510 463916 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred type... < 1325987591 33729 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (<**>[show.length,take 1]).group < 1325987591 796299 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :[Char] -> [String] < 1325987667 326293 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> iterate(sequence[show.length,take 1]<= [String] < 1325987761 416405 :Lymee!~moe@ppp-70-251-230-64.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325987761 732403 :Lymee!~moe@ppp-70-251-230-64.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net QUIT :Changing host < 1325987761 888558 :Lymee!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan JOIN :#esoteric < 1325987768 954772 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1325987772 359681 :Lymee!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan NICK :Madoka-Kaname < 1325987778 529768 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (<**>[show.length,take 1]) < 1325987779 361387 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Char]] -> [String] < 1325987810 731537 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t sequence[show.length,take 1] < 1325987811 522725 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :[Char] -> [String] < 1325988041 301408 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t flip < 1325988042 410728 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (f :: * -> *) a b. (Functor f) => f (a -> b) -> a -> f b < 1325988076 412865 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t flip[show.length,take 1] < 1325988077 205003 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :[Char] -> [String] < 1325988109 526445 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1325988116 892755 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1325988184 806794 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle f (a -> f b) -> a -> f b < 1325988185 285173 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude (=<<) :: Monad m => (a -> m b) -> m a -> m b < 1325988185 443871 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Monad (=<<) :: Monad m => (a -> m b) -> m a -> m b < 1325988185 600030 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude (>>=) :: Monad m => m a -> (a -> m b) -> m b < 1325988308 279182 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle f (a -> f b) -> f a -> f b < 1325988308 753986 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude (=<<) :: Monad m => (a -> m b) -> m a -> m b < 1325988308 912356 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Monad (=<<) :: Monad m => (a -> m b) -> m a -> m b < 1325988309 68424 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude (>>=) :: Monad m => m a -> (a -> m b) -> m b < 1325988529 629055 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> iterate(join.flip[show.length,take 1]<= *) a a1. (Monad m, Functor m) => m (a1 -> m a) -> a1 -> m a < 1325988587 379391 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1325989420 348356 :Jafet1!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1325989569 182711 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Yes, I'm kind of in the process of burning out. < 1325989584 539204 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1325989619 482841 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what it would be like if we still had dons's statistics on #haskell. < 1325989954 835355 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe life would be good if I did like ddarius and ignored any questions that annoyed me. Even ddarius failed at that today. < 1325989996 101807 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's really amazing is how Cale is still at it. Cale might be the most patient person on IRC. < 1325990266 891783 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: So you still take LSD? It's not just a phase? < 1325990275 369093 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe it is a phase, in the ordinary meaning of "phase". < 1325990415 657457 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, I haven't tripped in a while, but I'm planning to do so next month < 1325990432 637048 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think most people who take psychedelics only do it a few times ever < 1325990444 480594 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's hard to say whether that's a "phase" < 1325990632 172458 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly it's best to take it regularly but infrequently < 1325990637 626296 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :like once a year or once every few years < 1325990748 349585 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325990852 518832 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: If I did it, would I be like you? :-) < 1325990862 151722 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're already like me < 1325990870 940335 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1325990871 416121 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least, the things you say in #haskell are eerily like things I would say < 1325990881 878463 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it rubbed off. < 1325990899 777336 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The worst thing about IRC is IRC logs. < 1325990904 91434 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, the second-worst thing. < 1325990963 897638 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean what's "best" depends on what you're trying to get out of it in the first place < 1325990987 68702 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The worst thing about IRC is that it's all a complete waste of time. < 1325991005 940262 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :#haskell has not been a waste of time, overall < 1325991013 838997 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the main reason I use IRC as much as I do is this aversion-to-publishing-things that I've mentioned before. < 1325991018 12011 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've learned quite a lot < 1325991024 283705 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but perhaps it would be a waste of time to continue < 1325991034 682885 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, IRC log is good thng < 1325991110 560279 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: By the way, I considered Haskell as a teaching language a while ago when I was considering teaching someone about comput{ers,ing}, and decided against it because it seemed like it would be way more complicated. < 1325991111 986422 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it may also be that the channel has grown / changed since i started, and so would be a waste to start now < 1325991127 963628 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1325991131 645068 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wondeer whether the same things apply to Scheme or not. < 1325991144 940583 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which things? < 1325991155 867067 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I was trying to figure out which things they were. :-) < 1325991159 469629 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1325991162 833482 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scheme is far simpler than Haskell < 1325991169 383550 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :For example, does the type system make Haskell harder or easier to learn? < 1325991184 810108 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reading Haskell code without type signatures is much more difficult in general. < 1325991216 770521 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But maybe types have a higher up-front cost which can discourage students. < 1325991221 284134 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :harder, for a total beginner to programming, compared to a hypothetical similar-but-dynamically-typed language < 1325991236 686875 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :one thing to keep in mind is that beginners are writing very small programs with very simple types < 1325991243 916686 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they benefit less from static typing < 1325991255 569370 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose that's true. < 1325991275 577626 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still have the vague feeling that imperative languages are easier to learn. < 1325991280 766931 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Imperative programming, anyway. < 1325991286 409637 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scheme is a fine imperative language < 1325991289 968882 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :SICP gets into it pretty quickly < 1325991292 676112 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :IP i mean < 1325991322 117543 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :a language with very simple static types might be good for teaching < 1325991333 462204 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but haskell's has too many bells and whistles in this area < 1325991354 253003 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's true. < 1325991359 283997 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Helium doesn't have type classes, I think. < 1325991360 710880 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :type classes and overloaded literals and monomorphism restriction < 1325991361 977198 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1325991379 205387 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :a simplified teaching version of Haskell would be great, except that nobody will maintain tool support that's comparable to GHC < 1325991394 839486 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also GHC is pretty bad at explaining type errors < 1325991423 974684 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just tells you the two mismatched types... what you really want is a whole tree of the inferences leading to those types < 1325991430 962772 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders how edwardk's type checker is going. < 1325991465 869506 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway if you want to teach intro programming, teach python or javascript < 1325991476 725870 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want to teach intro CS, use Scheme < 1325991582 290343 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :To teach about computer, learn a lower level programming language, such as C, or Forth, to learn how the computer is working. Possibly even assembly languages for specific computer you learn such as x86 or NES/Famicom. To learn a program, Haskell is as good as any; but even better to learn mathematical and programming together. < 1325991612 365469 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you teach someone C and tell them it's how the computer "really works" then they will probably become an insufferable douchebag < 1325991628 995062 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Yes; that is why you need to learn assembly programming too. < 1325991640 467415 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're best off teaching them physics. < 1325991657 58252 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you can learn in C what correspond for example, the pointer to the address in the computer, pointer address array, and instructions set. < 1325991668 371056 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, uh, assembly is not how the machine "really works" either < 1325991670 33203 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is also LLVM which is much better designed than C in my opinion < 1325991680 197104 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's another abstraction < 1325991693 128795 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the implementation of this abstraction is incredibly complex < 1325991702 830750 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's hard to observe or modify unless you work at Intel < 1325991707 659427 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so people mostly ignore it < 1325991720 214958 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pointers and addresses and memory are also a big abstraction. < 1325991735 413648 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes everything mostly does. < 1325991763 31936 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's funny when people boast about how C is "close to the machine" and then turn out to be ignorant of caching or branch prediction or memory ordering issues or ... < 1325991767 293201 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is why, to design computer that includes the book of full schematic diagrams and program codes printout < 1325991780 860852 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :because C (and assembly) largely hide those things, < 1325991784 385484 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then they come back to bite you < 1325991786 535621 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :C is close to the abstract machine! < 1325991808 771960 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, it's not that either < 1325991814 590096 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :C doesn't really hide caching. Any more than anything above the CPU level does. < 1325991825 706718 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Yes, but the different computer, they might do caching and branch prediction and that stuff differently. You can learn for one individual computer, LLVM has some more control but is still for many computer. Assembly prorgamming and possibly if you have an emulator, can learn thing better < 1325991859 826793 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, you saw the Linux bug I was talking about earlier? < 1325991871 543782 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-222-28.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: This is because their idea of "machine" is the abstract machine that once upon a time was non-abstract. < 1325991876 254611 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which one? The one with the undefined behavior? < 1325991889 692778 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1325991934 496265 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :By "abstract machine" I mean the C abstract machine, of course, not x86. < 1325991945 810448 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1325991949 647364 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :here's one example http://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux-2.6.git;a=commitdiff;h=3c8a9c63d5fd738c261bd0ceece04d9c8357ca13 < 1325992006 548089 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the bug is that 'tun' can be NULL < 1325992008 816647 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: That bug was neat, by the way. You should tell me when you put the slides for your talk up. < 1325992048 65614 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if a user maps a page at NULL they can control the value the kernel reads < 1325992058 332588 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks like this is not exploitable, because 'sk' is unused before the NULL check < 1325992075 741418 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but NULL dereference is Undefined Behavior and so the compiler is free to omit that check < 1325992083 939346 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which gcc did, hence the bug was exploitable for privilege escalation < 1325992107 538178 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, if your model of C is "close to the machine" then you will make the mistake of thinking this code is safe (though it's still clearly wrong) < 1325992142 998212 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, I will! < 1325992159 247138 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-222-28.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Of course, their intuitions map to pre-ISO C, so the C abstract machine is irrelevant. :P < 1325992173 748168 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-222-28.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Unfortunately for them, x86 is also an abstract machine. < 1325992204 226129 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's abstract machines all the way down. < 1325992258 398905 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: When is the talk? < 1325992271 346852 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, Jan 27. < 1325992397 375289 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and Veinor is doing a Haskell class. < 1325992695 805938 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Haskell is the world's most *reasonable* programming language -- a language ideally suited for reasoning about code by machines, by humans, and by machines aiding humans.' < 1325992698 283108 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that one? < 1325992776 958930 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would seem to be the one. < 1325992800 460357 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that claim seems kinda completely false < 1325992803 347814 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell is best they do programming and mathematical reasoning in dealing with computer program < 1325992824 277442 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :For other thing, other programming language might be best, it is one reason why, they have many programming languages < 1325992856 848048 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell is far from the best language if you want to prove things about your programs < 1325992875 312358 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Yes, you are probably correct about that. < 1325992890 948579 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what examples are there of 'reasoning about code by machines' in Haskell < 1325992905 867893 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I imagine that's referring to type checking or something. < 1325992915 794520 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell is a very compromisey language if you take e.g. Agda into account. < 1325992915 952377 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :weak < 1325992923 255804 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I mean, for example, the functions can be like a mathematical functions, and typeclass that is supposed to have certain laws, that follow certain kind of mathematical structures, and sometimes a few things can be implied just by the type signatures < 1325992945 240428 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Equational reasoning that the optimizer can do? < 1325992953 302792 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, I didn't write it. < 1325992964 962887 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems like a vastly overblown claim that will leave people disappointed < 1325992972 865884 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean it's an approach i see a lot < 1325993005 116724 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Haskell is great, because Curry-Howard! Proving things in the type system. We can prove that, uh, Ints exist, unless they're ⊥." < 1325993028 611690 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that a _|_ character? < 1325993031 326431 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1325993040 668564 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, there is Curry-Howard as well, and I have been able to make a typeclass for law of excluded middle, too < 1325993042 252065 :atrapado!~rdrp@95.169.240.36 JOIN :#esoteric < 1325993076 462722 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A lot of claims about Haskell are overstated. < 1325993077 441959 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell is great but "wealth of static analysis tools" is not its strong point < 1325993095 224853 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :certain things fit very naturally into the type system < 1325993100 880074 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but for anything else it's an uphill battle < 1325993107 342256 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :To be honest, I don't understand why a lot of people like Haskell so much. < 1325993114 498849 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, it's better than Java! < 1325993126 851215 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You see a fair number of people saying "Haskell is great!" but then they write atrocious code in it that disregards pretty much all its strength. < 1325993128 472070 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the strongest praise a programming language could get < 1325993138 46721 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have type for bijective functions then you could even use types as numbers, such as (,) meaning both and and multiplication, Either meaning or and addition, -> meaning implication and exponents, Maybe meaning successors < 1325993169 201579 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, well, I think you know why I like Haskell, because I gave a talk about it :) < 1325993173 104034 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a bit different from the party line < 1325993206 145510 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: My statement was ambiguous. < 1325993228 881169 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"There exists a large set of people such that I don't why any of its members like Haskell so much." < 1325993236 563264 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1325993257 844469 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There similarly exists a large set of people who dislike C++ for completely bogus reasons. < 1325993258 952829 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which set is that < 1325993261 504048 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1325993283 896384 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although admittedly that one's easier to justify, because "I don't understand it after investing a fair amount of effort" is a valid reason to dislike something. < 1325993298 659001 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think Haskell is a pragmatic language with a lot of well-chosen tradeoffs, and a good implementation < 1325993358 62635 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a bit different from "Haskell is best because it enforces total ideological purity" < 1325993362 892348 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or "Haskell is best because it has the most math" < 1325993391 728481 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :both of which are factually untrue, anyway < 1325993401 541278 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they are standard reasons given by beginners < 1325993508 651532 :Jafet1!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most people have misconceptions about most things < 1325993511 562402 :Jafet1!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet NICK :Jafet < 1325993533 901414 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION premature generalization < 1325993615 769869 :atrapado!~rdrp@95.169.240.36 PRIVMSG #esoteric :premature optimization < 1325993631 495369 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and my opinion that Haskell is "practical" is conditional on the fact that I already know it well < 1325993689 238215 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think you could probably get 80% of the benefit in a language that's 20% as hard to learn < 1325993854 718209 :atrapado!~rdrp@95.169.240.36 PRIVMSG #esoteric :misconceptions are more like premature optimizations, rather than premature generalizations < 1325993869 677723 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe that language is OCaml, or F#, or Clojure < 1325993872 369598 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it doesn't exist yet < 1325993900 245845 :iamcal!u1110@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-glwffzytnduvznrn QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1325994140 425658 :atrapado!~rdrp@95.169.240.36 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we start with something general and then optimize it < 1325994208 746863 :atrapado!~rdrp@95.169.240.36 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or misoptimize it < 1325994254 349810 :atrapado!~rdrp@95.169.240.36 PRIVMSG #esoteric :. < 1325994428 962820 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to go to one of NYC/Washington D.C./Los Angeles in the next few months. < 1325994453 641118 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1325994461 461063 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finnish passport. < 1325994470 926502 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1325994474 926984 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be best to get it before my birthday in July. < 1325994476 826029 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, LA is probably the cheapest for you to get to < 1325994483 7151 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but NYC and DC are vastly superior cities < 1325994535 772919 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-222-28.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1325994543 770246 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's true. But just think of how much cheaper the cost of going to Hac Boston would be if I go to NYC anyway! < 1325994545 381762 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-205-39.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325994552 265851 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's true! < 1325994555 986686 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also I have relatives there. < 1325994562 750614 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I have relatives in San Diego too. < 1325994602 52075 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :San Diego is pretty far from LA < 1325994607 191718 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you know that < 1325994617 264049 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Boston is pretty far from NYC. < 1325994631 24868 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, you have relatives in boston? < 1325994652 116916 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. Although I was referring to my relatives in NYC. < 1325994661 198105 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I could visit both! < 1325994749 820753 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I could drive to Los Angeles. < 1325994755 457144 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you feel less like me suddenly, kmc? < 1325994760 509691 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1325994993 715746 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1325996409 795940 :atrapado!~rdrp@95.169.240.36 QUIT :Quit: Bye < 1325997247 777381 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1325997312 162790 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 NICK :PiRSquaredAway < 1325997391 301932 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you do so? < 1325997531 113410 :PiRSquaredAway!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 QUIT :Quit: I found a *real* proof, it's just too long to fit in the quit message < 1325999412 964320 :Jafet1!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1325999573 422537 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1326000294 682105 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1326000801 236496 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :16:30:25: what are the benefits of levenshtein coding over regular binary coding? < 1326000801 552123 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. < 1326000807 142850 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: What is "regular binary coding"? < 1326000832 314742 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : kallisti_ said 11h 1m 21s ago: do you think using Ix and switching elemFromEnum to an array implementation would be faster or slower than using Map? or does an Ix instance basically require the same < 1326000832 475396 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : kind of lookup code? < 1326000836 846094 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti_: Ix depends on Enum, you moron. < 1326001284 76388 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :16:58:00: itidus21: do you have a university degree yet? < 1326001284 234737 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :16:58:10: no < 1326001284 390871 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :16:58:25: have you considered getting a university degree0 < 1326001284 390962 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :16:58:27: ? < 1326001284 391009 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :16:58:51: i am living in a weird kind of dire strait... < 1326001284 550953 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :16:59:11: the world has defeated me from every angle < 1326001286 526249 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :16:59:32: well i'm aware of that, i felt the question was orthogonal enough < 1326001288 606867 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :16:59:57: success is mostly an illusion < 1326001290 656207 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i just want to say you're great < 1326002474 271293 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Do you have a university degree yet? < 1326002611 949946 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Nope. < 1326002741 271194 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you considered getting a university degree0 < 1326002745 192020 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1326003489 535614 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-205-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1326003729 450571 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Token expansion in TeX is not entirely comonadic because the \csname command has the possibility to modify the table of equivalents during expansion. < 1326003757 644246 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :So expansion can have side effects, but that is the only one, other than error messages < 1326003873 683351 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1326004023 348157 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Specifically, I mean the coKleisli morphisms for the (,) comonad (a.k.a. the Env comonad). < 1326004050 869204 :myndzi!~myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326004146 747794 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net NICK :MSleep < 1326004148 215288 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you considered getting a something else other than a university degree? < 1326005516 538338 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: thanks for deleting that page of spa, < 1326005533 320778 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I typo when I type "spam" so much < 1326005546 518881 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking about automating it, but that'd involve learning GreaseMonkey because Esolang doesn't have working user scripts < 1326005554 660072 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: can you protect the main page, pls? < 1326005561 372881 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was a complaint on the talk page, and it seems a new wave are targetting it specifically < 1326005565 169120 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*wave of spambots < 1326005567 659277 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will if it continues < 1326005578 733773 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, but this is the second or third day < 1326005586 680805 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't semi-protection work? < 1326005593 561737 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of them hit NetHackWiki's main page a while ago, which is the only spam it's had in ages < 1326005627 571934 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :theory: Timwi is controlling the spambots < 1326005641 293434 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :as revenge < 1326006044 7779 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1326006099 646749 :Jafet1!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1326006434 92906 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1326007115 621382 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1326007300 774426 :myndzi!~myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT : < 1326007308 502070 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326007424 581792 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make the HTTP-PUT-based wiki using HTTP-based authentication mode, could be another way that makes it harder for current spambots to find and there are many other ways too < 1326007473 989181 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok done now what < 1326007475 695959 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another possibility, is prevent Google from indexing it. < 1326007522 919848 :Jafet1!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1326007613 832228 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The current wiki are form-based rather than PUT-method-based < 1326007650 884878 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1326007965 820107 :Jafet1!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1326007986 632480 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1326008273 38788 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Client Quit < 1326008354 12910 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Speaking of NetHackWiki, I haven't paid much attention to it or anything, but is the situation with Wikia as bad as it seems? < 1326008408 811822 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I.e., #nethack wanted a wiki, made a thing on Wikia, Wikia added advertisements, #nethack decided to move their wiki, Wikia refused to redirect or let them add "this wiki has now moved" markers to pages or remove the advertisements? < 1326008536 85806 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: They had a marker up, but I don't think Wikia was happy about it. < 1326008540 174317 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC it was just on the main page. < 1326008547 152168 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wikia said they'd remove it after a while. < 1326008564 766895 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: s/added advertisements/progressively redesigned the theme to be more and more terrible while adding more advertisements each time/ < 1326008574 777239 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a common experience for Wikia users. < 1326008580 21482 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The same happened to the most popular WoW wiki, to my understanding. < 1326008598 5707 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Right, I was abbreviating. < 1326008618 941517 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :My favourite thing about Wikia's theme is the part where every external link has an interstitial ad added to it. < 1326008623 361096 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And of course the Wikia pages are way higher ins earch results. < 1326008628 234298 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Oh, yes, now I remember. < 1326008632 46197 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd suppressed it. :-( < 1326008641 901860 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :They should add it to internal links too. < 1326008643 21886 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :MORE PROFIT < 1326008652 516932 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Creatures Wiki still has the sane theme < 1326008690 552657 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh < 1326008700 662450 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: What if, as part of the procedure for taking you to an interstitial ad, IT TOOK YOU TO ANOTHER INTERSTITIAL AD??? < 1326008703 775338 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :INFINITE PROFIT < 1326008788 208758 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: The "Skip this Ad" button should have an interstitial ad. < 1326008795 661490 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: GENIUS < 1326008810 639688 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would never be able to sit through the full 30 seconds without clicking that button. < 1326008816 8134 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://ideone.com/AJZRX is there a way to do this without wrapping in a type? < 1326008824 612076 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__spotlights/images/6d7325c4c94e26518f560e075330aab2.jpg Apparently Bation was overlooked? < 1326008826 512875 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Bastion < 1326008871 92603 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: < 1326008882 88994 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://stackoverflow.com/questions/8739741/higher-ranked-and-impredicative-types < 1326008896 698540 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Why do you use that paste site, by the way? < 1326008898 517587 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's horrible < 1326008905 931237 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Thankfully, you want to do that approximately 1 time in 10000000000000000, and never for Show, so it doesn't matter at all. < 1326008923 57455 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: We need mauke's paste-copier bot in here. < 1326008925 710210 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I'll write one. < 1326008932 714379 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I'll write a bot that just dumps every URL to sprunge. < 1326009011 639456 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: So does UHC support inferring existential types? < 1326009019 35336 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would be a great trick. < 1326009023 880687 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :x = ... < 1326009027 165174 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :x :: exists a. a < 1326009035 496930 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've written a universal type inferencer! < 1326009065 76336 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's wrong with IdeOne? < 1326009084 937437 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I somewhat doubt it. < 1326009103 357938 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: For one, it's a pastebin with *ads*. < 1326009116 72665 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And a Tweet button. < 1326009121 574564 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And a "Login with Facebook" button. < 1326009137 967873 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-205-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :For two, curl -F 'sprunge=<-' http://sprunge.us < 1326009145 376776 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually I count 8 social networking devices on that page. < 1326009146 961299 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it takes a long time to load. < 1326009152 694417 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did I mention how my Internet connection is very slow? < 1326009161 415347 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also < 1326009161 732078 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :language: Haskell (ghc-6.8.2) < 1326009166 229801 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty much all web pages on the Internet today load "sequentially" in some weird way. < 1326009170 385509 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which came out in 2007. < 1326009181 750757 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And this weird way causes the content to wait on the ads. < 1326009194 251225 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also the syntax highlighting is hideous, especially for strings. < 1326009214 137205 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codepad.org/taphdoQk < 1326009217 996292 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not the most informative < 1326009222 399289 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, it gets better. < 1326009223 498728 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"All Rights Reserved." < 1326009225 84284 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :--footer < 1326009232 995620 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :++footer; < 1326009236 469626 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess claim rights to your pastes. < 1326009255 588187 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-205-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Seriously though, it doesn't get better than sprunge. < 1326009260 705577 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :who we are < 1326009260 864211 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :We are highly qualified academics with Ph.D. < 1326009261 20624 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :We specialize in research and development. < 1326009261 20726 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :We direct your business towards innovation. < 1326009274 45974 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :--http://sphere-research.com/en/ as linked from footer of ideone < 1326009286 884249 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :They have a Ph.D. between them, collectively. < 1326009292 478475 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think sprunge is better, so I wrote a sprunge.cmd file to do that too < 1326009306 628563 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, they're the people behind that http://www.spoj.pl/ thing. < 1326009312 159707 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-205-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I am incredibly unsurprised you think sprunge is better. < 1326009318 323045 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I think they mean they have an actual Doctor of Philosophy, not a certificate specifying that one of them is one. < 1326009333 890545 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-205-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems very zzo-esque, except it's also very anyone-who-does-command-lines friendly. < 1326009335 349261 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Finally someone to nurse philosophy back to health. < 1326009349 420272 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, can't run code in sprunge < 1326009351 6508 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ph.N. < 1326009370 765570 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: We don't need to see GHC 6.8.2's error message to know why your code doesn't work on GHC 7.0.3. < 1326009373 990333 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Does your Ph.D. institution also give out Ph.N.s? < 1326009375 921251 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Esp. since it's obvious. < 1326009378 424803 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-205-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: No, but ghci <(curl http://sprunge.us/foo) does that just fine. < 1326009403 99115 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just get that way at odd hours of the night < 1326009406 325458 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is sometimes too lazy to make a file on his system and use his ghc < 1326009437 903466 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :delusions of the night < 1326009443 922859 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: GHC 7.4 has top-level declarations in GHCi. < 1326009472 145601 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't have GHC 7.4 < 1326009474 613384 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-205-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Use a better shell. < 1326009486 830051 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Alternatively, that's why you use Emacs. < 1326009499 631634 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :MORE LIKE EWWWMACS < 1326009501 402551 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :GET IT < 1326009506 680191 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can GHCi parse a module declaration? < 1326009506 838935 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should switch back to Emacs for Haskell stuff < 1326009509 643126 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :C-x C-f foo.hs data Foo = Foo C-x C-s C-c C-l :t undefined :: Foo < 1326009517 457238 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, you need C-x C-o before that :t. < 1326009520 98851 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :jEdit thinks that ' always means the rest of the token is a string < 1326009531 112867 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who the heck uses jEdit? < 1326009554 320831 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think even Slava doesn't use it anymore. < 1326009574 192928 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :He also doesn't use Factor anymore, I believe. < 1326009617 478750 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Oh, doesn't he? < 1326009623 343506 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :He seemed pretty into it a year or two ago. < 1326009629 225990 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :noobs, i have GHC 7.5 < 1326009638 169994 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://factor-language.blogspot.com/ has been dead for a while, though. < 1326009643 47606 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I have GHC 7.0. :-( < 1326009647 96674 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :me too < 1326009654 312396 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're 7% more modern than I am. < 1326009658 571283 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have 7.0.*3*! < 1326009662 783512 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1326009669 944250 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's .0.3 better. < 1326009671 765795 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may have been wrong. < 1326009672 596920 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Glorious Glasgow Haskell Compilation System, version 7.0.3 < 1326009682 134091 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it must be hard to turn the crank on the side < 1326009692 769274 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That's what I heard. < 1326009697 815680 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Arch are waiting for 7.4 to update for, uh, stability. < 1326009705 254414 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no really, I have a GHC that reports its version as 7.5.blah < 1326009706 46054 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arch "/usr/bin/python is python3" Linux. < 1326009718 586590 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it has minimal libraries installed tho < 1326009748 108095 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION really wants 7.4 to come out so he can enter a new age of type system horror. < 1326009758 222559 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :build it from git < 1326009760 251475 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know you want to < 1326009763 785213 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's so much work. < 1326009767 363681 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really < 1326009772 248336 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it takes ages. < 1326009775 488883 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1326009776 123722 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used to build GHC from darcs. < 1326009781 192168 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had dozens of versions installed. < 1326009782 377602 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a lot of work for your computer; not so much for you < 1326009792 601235 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :GHC needs a build bot. < 1326009794 195326 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Remember the deal with the crank on the side? < 1326009796 833657 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to use GHC nightlies. < 1326009798 662995 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's more work for you if you already have a ghc tree and want to update it and expect incremental builds to work < 1326009802 380004 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :cause they won't < 1326009809 828903 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, GHC has a buildbot, but I don't know if the binaries are posted anywhere < 1326009826 895960 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Remember when GHC moved from a hideous Makefile system to a slightly better hideous autotools+Makefile system? < 1326009831 14588 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1326009836 969733 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, didn't that happen? < 1326009842 911712 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I distinctly recall that it not being autotools a year back or so. < 1326009844 693092 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe, but why would I remember it < 1326009848 30939 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc is amnesiac < 1326009854 63287 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott is elephantine < 1326009855 12898 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because GHC building folklore, man! < 1326009858 765487 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :make may be "hideous" but it supports -j < 1326009876 397506 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Makefiles themselves were the hideous part. Although make is too. < 1326009896 808322 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-205-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :-j isn't exactly hard. < 1326009907 390614 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :cabal doesn't have it yet < 1326009947 166637 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has a plan for a cabal wrapper that builds in parallel. < 1326009951 600260 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's been done < 1326009966 392561 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for building different packages in parallel; not for the modules in a single package) < 1326009968 940453 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but I've never seen one on Hackage, and I don't know anybody who uses one :P < 1326009971 354128 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: The latter is what I meant. < 1326009974 463878 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1326009977 748788 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The former is an orthogonal issue that I don't care about much. < 1326009984 26012 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-205-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Just because cabal sucks doesn't make -j hard. *If* you're doing dependencies in even a vaguely sane way. < 1326009993 451105 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :make -j is theoretically uninteresting, therefore Haskell already supports it < 1326009998 704551 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's your fault for not writing it < 1326010002 934869 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION orthogonizes over the issue. < 1326010007 15506 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well GHC is kinda build system antagonistic < 1326010012 719126 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Multiple output files, no full separate compilation < 1326010038 720674 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-205-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I mean, heck, redo does it, and the build logic there is in shell scripts.) < 1326010058 268070 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't it Python < 1326010065 613937 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I don't understand what point you're trying to make. are you speaking to a developer of a make-replacement, or to a user of a build system, or? < 1326010070 818347 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-205-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes, but you tell it what to do with shell scripts. < 1326010075 405717 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-205-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Developer. < 1326010081 142973 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1326010083 220909 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't disagree < 1326010085 440670 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :why did you bring it up? < 1326010104 695177 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-205-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"make may be 'hideous' but it supports -j" < 1326010114 456147 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1326010127 275725 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :meaning that GHC doing things differently from other haskell packages has at least one major advantage < 1326010131 764208 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's all i meant by it < 1326010134 823382 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-205-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay. < 1326010147 509513 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION didn't realise kmc thought I was comparing it to using Cabal. < 1326010156 168285 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't really < 1326010160 560064 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt Cabal could even build GHC. Maybe with a massive custom Setup.hs thing. < 1326010194 126427 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :does Cabal have support for Make-based builds? < 1326010198 227426 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-205-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ish. < 1326010209 56981 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/Cabal/1.10.2.0/doc/html/Distribution-Make.html < 1326010218 198558 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's cheating :P < 1326010220 49586 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Perhaps at some point we should stop pretending that it works." < 1326010231 483724 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cabal-1.10.2.0: A framework for packaging Haskell software < 1326010237 103803 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Cabal isn't a package manager, it's a build system!" < 1326010239 836379 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"But it's terrible at that too." < 1326010241 681898 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1326010244 851660 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It's a framework for packaging!" < 1326010257 484451 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the Haskell tools are perfect and you're just some kind of idiot Java Monkey if you can't get by with them < 1326010266 863071 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :next you'll be asking for regexes and stack backtraces < 1326010269 727449 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fucking java monkeys < 1326010272 146709 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-205-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Still better than what C's got. < 1326010273 748411 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-205-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(barely) < 1326010279 259046 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Java monkeys like regexps/ < 1326010280 77064 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1326010307 948126 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-205-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Only if you can represent them with an object hierarchy. < 1326010323 435685 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thinks regexps probably *are* moderately worthless in Haskell, since writing little parsers is so easy, but it would be nice to have a more concise syntax for common things. < 1326010332 644364 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :scsh's sexp regexp stuff would be interesting to mimic. < 1326010351 276154 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :A quasiquoter that turns a regexp into a parser would probably be the most useful thing, if TH wasn't terrible. < 1326010380 405949 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd settle for just a regex library with a simple concrete API < 1326010385 194977 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact there are several on hackage < 1326010401 210710 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The worst thing about the Haskell regexp libs is the hideous typeclass hack most of them are based on. < 1326010405 449962 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i can't find them amongst all the other regex-compat-posix-new-lite-pcre < 1326010408 161124 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should be illegal. < 1326010418 86799 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :regex-compat-posix-new-lite-pcre-0.1: NO REALLY USE THIS ONE THE OTHERS SUCK < 1326010439 335869 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if someone uploaded a good regex lib and used that as the cabal synopsis I would hug them < 1326010501 818189 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-205-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assign not-elliott to do it. < 1326010525 423448 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think translating regexps into first-class parsers is probably bad for performance < 1326010537 818785 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Monadic parsers, sure < 1326010548 364626 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if you turned regexp syntax into http://hackage.haskell.org/package/regex-applicative parsers? < 1326010548 840952 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :even applicative CFG parsers < 1326010568 62129 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-205-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, of course, would come back with @ in 100 years. < 1326010593 756495 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, might be nice < 1326010602 865991 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I think the better complaint there is "it's difficult to optimise Haskell EDSLs" < 1326010606 880909 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's... yeah < 1326010615 963452 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which sucks, but is probably inherent < 1326010627 226225 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :arrows seem to have the best opportunities there but you have to use arrows < 1326010636 401962 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :arrows suck because you can't optimize 'arr' < 1326010653 542079 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that too < 1326010658 524371 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus generalised arrows < 1326010665 857147 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :an EVEN LARGER TYPECLASS! < 1326010675 938299 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll be interested to see what iPwn have come up with, if their shit ever sees the light of day < 1326010701 105830 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"we solved several major open problems in theoretical computer science in order to make an iPhone game where you hit orcs with a sword" < 1326010712 656747 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has great difficulty taking iPwn seriously because of the name. < 1326010730 140898 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What have they done apart from their own arrow stuff? I heard about that in passing but nothing else. Well, and the GHC port thing I think was them. < 1326010747 216417 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're using a custom preprocessor and some bleeding-edge GHC features to do better arrowized FRP < 1326010752 441569 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know much about it < 1326010777 867672 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-205-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Waitwaitwait, they're working on FRP so they can do an iPhone game? < 1326010783 111564 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1326010792 988677 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hasn't game development driven FRP for like half a decade by now? < 1326010794 753715 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I heard that they got some sucker to port GHC to Android. < 1326010795 70209 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :research in arrowized FRP with a custom preprocessor < 1326010797 475875 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-205-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are they mad or awesome? I dunno. < 1326010803 543806 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ask Cale about it < 1326010819 527814 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :their game is like 2 years late < 1326010837 481931 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i'm gonna go with "not awesome" < 1326010845 723193 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if it's great research i can't possibly imagine how it makes business sense < 1326010851 675112 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do people put two years of work into an iPhone game ever? < 1326010854 323468 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Business sense? You're talking about Haskellers. < 1326010864 945040 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yeah... < 1326010879 251788 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Hey, some Haskellers have business sense! Those are the people who don't use Haskell for their business. < 1326010901 741261 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-205-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or presumably the ones using it for finance. < 1326010930 516810 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would prefer the Arrow to be changed to something else such as: class (Category c1, Category c2) => CatFunctor c1 c2 where { funct :: c1 x y -> c2 x y; }; class Category c => CatArrow c (p :: * -> * -> *) where { ... }; It should be able to still represent the ordinary Arrow stuff with this, I think < 1326010935 788226 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-205-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Certainly when you're working on open problems for the purpose of mundane, mundane programs, you've got no business sense. :) < 1326010945 253801 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think using Haskell for an iPhone game is not completely crazy, but they seem to be doing it wrong < 1326010968 907604 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-205-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: It's the "working on major open problems in theoretical computer science" bit that is completely nuts. < 1326010972 775603 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1326010980 103775 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: What about Barrier Arrows? You mustn't forget those. < 1326010983 972213 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course this distinction will be lost on most < 1326010985 279876 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thinks that working for 2 years on FRP stuff for an iPhone game is cool but would probably work better as a hobby :p < 1326010992 574560 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-205-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yup. < 1326011001 613752 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I don't think FRP is considered a /major/ open problem :P < 1326011005 312255 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the developers of the platform games N and N+ are a bit nuts also < 1326011007 213808 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I don't know what those are < 1326011012 208085 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yeah, who knows. it might be one of those startups where it's essentially a hobby, and everyone has a "side job" < 1326011029 464980 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION also isn't sure FRP counts as /that/ theoretical, although the linear temporal logic stuff... < 1326011061 831289 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mm, LTL. < 1326011070 142213 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have fond memories of LTL and SPIN < 1326011071 589721 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1326011087 127001 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-205-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm only quoting kmc on that one. < 1326011087 283177 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I went to this one talk about model checking once. < 1326011091 226569 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-205-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1326011092 264832 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually I went to it twice. < 1326011098 899518 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually I went to it once and it went to me once. < 1326011103 23256 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I can't criticise too loudly because I'm on step 2 of the "Hey, I want to make a game with Haskell!" -> "Guess I'd better figure out how to do it with FRP." -> game path. < 1326011112 98257 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1326011123 547248 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Does @ have games? < 1326011124 925405 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION can't remember what the game was going to be any more. < 1326011127 587225 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, some things do not make business sense but are justified by broader concerns < 1326011131 784480 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :like "this is what i want to do" < 1326011132 577069 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Who needs games when @ is as fun as it is?! < 1326011144 49261 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :my impression was that the ipwn guys thought they were making business sense < 1326011155 59927 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ peace and @ war... < 1326011158 286063 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: It's the Paul Graham stuff, isn't it? < 1326011162 841381 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is FRP? < 1326011172 477600 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ? < 1326011175 992359 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If you program in my Blub, you'll have such a competitive advantage that you'll be, like, exponentially better than C++ programmers." < 1326011176 777218 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :functional reactive programming < 1326011189 47313 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-205-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Functional Reactive Programming; an alternate paradigm for IO in a purely-functional-ish language. < 1326011192 713066 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-205-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(such as Haskell) < 1326011196 839650 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :FRP isn't really about IO. < 1326011212 342552 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, maybe. PG also says there are nontechnical competitive advantages of using weird languages < 1326011217 203543 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I think is a more solid claim < 1326011222 840344 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I think that's what I was saying. < 1326011230 645530 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you show me the mathematical structures for reactives? < 1326011248 863839 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: type Behavior a = Time -> a; type Event a = [(Time,a)] < 1326011263 814191 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Those are lies. Now you can start on the open problem of FRP: finding out definitions that aren't lies. < 1326011272 489486 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Step 1: "Behaviour" < 1326011280 865537 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Correct! < 1326011299 4545 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-205-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: What I gathered from him was that by using Blub you'll get better programmers, not that you'll turn people into better programmers. < 1326011300 64629 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Step 2: "Eveunt" < 1326011313 615031 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-205-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is at least not complete incoherent nonsense. :) < 1326011315 933218 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're mixing several PG metaphors < 1326011328 881975 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Not true, I didn't mention painting. < 1326011356 256309 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :penalty, disproving a universal statement with an existence proof. five yards. < 1326011360 7722 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't tend to be too careful with PG mockquotes, admittedly, although I do agree that such languages can give competitive advantages. < 1326011388 221974 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The problem is that most relevant languages that don't have the infrastructure you need because they're still obscure competitive advantages. < 1326011395 418318 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :he thinks Lisp gave ViaWeb a competitive advantage on technical grounds < 1326011409 140011 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PART #esoteric :"Leaving" < 1326011412 276684 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326011420 419003 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also don't think that using Haskell for a game is a competitive advantage unless you /do/ go for something like FRP. < 1326011432 641996 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because you'll just spend all your time in IO writing callbacks. < 1326011437 554834 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno, Haskell is still a pretty good language < 1326011438 527490 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I wonder why that keeps happening. Do you try to delete a word with ^W? < 1326011445 276352 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i forgot why < 1326011456 37738 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you get a nontechnical advantage from hiring haskellers < 1326011457 306851 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: It is, but it's not significantly better at imperative programming than most other languages. < 1326011463 161358 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The lack of pointers is nice, of course. < 1326011477 82775 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess for the iPhone you pretty much have to write games in C++ unless you go for something "weird" like Haskell. < 1326011488 897022 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-205-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Objective C, not C++. < 1326011489 884837 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it is very common to write rendering in C or C++ and game logic in Lua < 1326011490 674812 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I gather people write the games in C++ and glue it with Objective-C++.) < 1326011492 691452 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ^ < 1326011495 669101 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Objective-C is way too slow. < 1326011496 206159 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-205-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, okay. < 1326011505 694341 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is kind of like writing rendering in C and writing game logic in Haskell < 1326011506 169875 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's all the safety of C with all the speed of unoptimised Smalltalk. < 1326011512 126757 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is what they were doing < 1326011526 366531 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :getting Lua working is a lot less of a pain < 1326011528 425072 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Objective-C is a strict superset of C, so you can write a plain C program in Objective-C, too. < 1326011540 222060 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Rendering in C seems an odd choice. Isn't the iPhone all shadery these days? < 1326011541 880810 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiring Lua programmers is not much of a competitive advantage; it's pretty standard in the game industry < 1326011548 219007 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sure there were shaders too < 1326011556 179853 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ISTR that the OpenGL they use doesn't have the fixed-function stuff, so there's not all /that/ much C code you'd end up writing. < 1326011559 603237 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-205-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Yeah, but Objective-C++ is supported trivially on the platform, and industry tends to prefer C++ over C. < 1326011560 796511 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess GLSL counts as C. < 1326011564 335676 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what i mean is that you make OpenGL calls from a thread which doesn't need garbage collection < 1326011564 493992 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sort of. < 1326011566 259902 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :TRIVIAL < 1326011568 793618 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: right < 1326011582 319491 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wasn't GHC getting a parallel collector? < 1326011585 728032 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or am I thinking concurrent. < 1326011587 199431 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Non-pausing. < 1326011591 72378 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's in a branch < 1326011591 744749 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Then you can program plain C++ in Objective-C++ if you want to do so < 1326011627 576084 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think PG may be right about Lisp and ViaWeb, but note that there were many fewer options back then < 1326011640 481659 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-205-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really, the supported compiler is GCC, so... Yeah. Nice and simple to do any GCC-supported language, maybe modulo a few outright oddballs. < 1326011643 430271 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-205-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(gcj?) < 1326011644 750950 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :his competitors were writing webapps in C++ or pre-modern Perl < 1326011653 287329 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing resembling a "web framework" would exist for another decade < 1326011655 314595 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Er, isn't the iPhone clang these days? < 1326011665 949355 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-205-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Oh, right, so it probably is. < 1326011667 153762 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, OS X is, so I can't imagine the iPhone isn't too. < 1326011682 917149 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-205-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which leaves you with C, Objective-C, C++, Objective-C++. < 1326011683 788546 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'll bet they got a lot of benefit from being able to grow a kind of web framework in Lisp organically < 1326011698 689394 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-205-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is also the set of languages most anyone would actually *give a shit about* in GCC. < 1326011702 342239 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but also they had good timing and won the lottery etc < 1326011719 214347 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-205-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(seriously, who uses Fortran? GCJ? D?) < 1326011730 128919 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: didn't pg say viaweb took off because of their crazy programming interface thing < 1326011734 5089 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of the advice PG has about doing a startup is not technical < 1326011739 286264 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is probably correct < 1326011744 994926 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :though his advice is biased and self-serving < 1326011753 718311 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think PG extrapolates way too much for his sample size. < 1326011767 374067 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-205-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You should do startups! Here, we've got a totally awesome service that is the BEST EVER for it!" < 1326011771 836249 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yeah, "How to Win the Lottery" wouldn't be a very popular article. < 1326011786 106928 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :today there are many reasonable, popular languages and frameworks for web programming < 1326011803 928116 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's harder for me to believe that using Haskell over Rails will be a huge advantage, even if using Lisp over C++ was < 1326011809 621912 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in the technical sense) < 1326011840 264235 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might be a security advantage though :) < 1326011846 58063 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1326011849 739129 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :startups don't care about security < 1326011853 724032 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-205-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah... Web dev has had at least enough sensibility to stop with C/C++. < 1326011856 329429 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep :p < 1326011861 10998 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-205-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though they're still on PHP and Ruby. :P < 1326011867 396187 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: http://www.webtoolkit.eu/wt < 1326011904 219468 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-205-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY GOD WHY < 1326011950 24206 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ksplice cared about security because we had the ability to automatically root hundreds of thousands of Linux machines < 1326011959 536081 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :even then, I suspect others in a similar situation would not care < 1326011967 665687 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: To be fair, he wrote "you should do startups" way before he started investing in them. < 1326011985 334438 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, you should play the lottery! one time i played the lottery and won the jackpot! < 1326012001 439162 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there may be some correlation between the people who understand and care about security, and the people who can write something like ksplice < 1326012012 367164 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-205-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: True, that's only really a criticism of his *later* stuff. Where he talks a lot about how his startup incubator thing is awesome. < 1326012021 206089 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-205-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not where he talks about how startups in general are awesome. < 1326012037 572528 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's all self-serving, even when he's not directly talking about YC < 1326012042 159596 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Sure, I was only responding to pikhq's specific statement. < 1326012051 583828 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :he wants to sell you on the idea that you need to do a startup by age 18 or else you are a failure in life < 1326012068 294202 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that way you'll be willing to give away equity for minimum wage < 1326012085 685925 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if people graduate college and work a couple jobs before doing a startup, they don't need YC as much < 1326012093 539814 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :they have savings and they have industry connections < 1326012132 551282 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-205-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And will probably need less of the advice YC could give (they do give advice, right?) < 1326012147 707879 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1326012171 89956 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :advice: make lots of money < 1326012197 838774 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-205-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Advice: steal from Gates < 1326012211 580354 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hence disparaging the corporate work environment < 1326012218 347328 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I'm not sure why Mr. Graham felt the need to draw this incredibly condescending parallel with company employees and caged animals in the zoo." http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2008/03/paul-grahams-participatory-narcissism.html < 1326012231 493468 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh man, Jeff Atwood writing about Paul Graham! < 1326012235 778068 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know right < 1326012236 534136 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't think of anything more enjoyable. < 1326012266 111668 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :here, Spolsky is PG's partner in crime < 1326012271 21046 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno about Atwood < 1326012279 63938 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, and referencing slamming spolsky in the second paragraph < 1326012290 858277 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Spolsky wants you to think that every company besides Fog Creek is a soul-sucking cubicle mill < 1326012295 927571 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if Spolsky tried to get SO written in that custom language < 1326012300 874593 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that's the core of their corporate identity < 1326012334 780569 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"we're going to make a software company which is unlike 1994 Microsoft" < 1326012363 528704 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as I can tell Fog Creek's main money-making scheme must be getting people to like them, rather than anybody actually using their products < 1326012400 9524 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-205-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does Fog Creek make anything? < 1326012418 386931 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a bug tracker, IIRC < 1326012461 460017 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@h66n5c1o291.bredband.skanova.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1326012468 88297 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@h66n5c1o291.bredband.skanova.com QUIT :Changing host < 1326012468 245673 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1326012500 828744 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also https://trello.com/, an organization / collaboration tool < 1326012511 844705 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a few other things < 1326012540 206318 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want to spend 80 minutes cringing, watch http://www.projectaardvark.com/movie/ < 1326012551 27234 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is about some interns developing one of their other products < 1326012585 628612 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :80 minutes of cringing? I can't think of anything I want more. < 1326012772 171521 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :who thought that would be a good idea < 1326012801 320138 :kallisti_!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: have I ever mentioned that you're a jerk? < 1326012829 561085 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I always figured it went without saying < 1326012858 88780 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti_: Often < 1326013138 870731 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is the main reason that http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Rope_example.jpg is rotated to make it seem more impressive? < 1326013276 859087 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is more pleasant on the eyes rotated < 1326013277 492927 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :good graphic < 1326013305 392015 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :None of the other pictures on that page are rotated. < 1326013326 227429 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I've wondered about that thing too. < 1326013336 949284 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The topic of this article may not meet Wikipedia's general notability guideline. Please help to establish notability by adding reliable, secondary sources about the topic. If notability cannot be established, the article is likely to be merged, redirected, or deleted. (September 2011)" < 1326013342 95083 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh yeah, ropes are so non-notable. < 1326013386 900069 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is it rotated? why is it jpeg? why what's up with everything being off center and angled wrong? < 1326013394 717252 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so many questions. the most mysterious image. < 1326013413 482898 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just realised that I'm a JPG snob. < 1326013417 793574 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :When did that happen? < 1326013419 74474 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: ok the investigatin begins < 1326013494 990274 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I don't even like the idea of using JPEGs for photos. < 1326013504 73262 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION biggest jpeg snob < 1326013505 23185 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meng Yao introduced the rotated rope on 03:25, 25 April 2011 < 1326013531 932934 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :his edit increased the document from about 3kb to 9kb < 1326013601 924067 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :his only wiki contribution has been on the rope article and he altered it on wiki for approximately 90 minutes before dissapearing forever < 1326013604 23798 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rotated rope. Rope. < 1326013681 301436 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :class Category c => CatArrow c p where { arr1 :: c x y -> c (p x z) (p y z); arr2 :: c x y -> c (p z x) (p z y); mirror :: c (p x y) (p y x); (*+*) :: c x y -> c x' y' -> c (p x x') (p y y'); (&|&) :: c x y -> c x y' -> c x (p y y'); arr2 f = mirror . arr1 f . mirror; f *+* g = arr1 f >>> arr2 g; }; Is it possible to define mirror in terms of the other class methods? < 1326013692 28005 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should there even be a mirror? < 1326013761 504593 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Take a look at this amazing question: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/8767849/importing-modules-as-a-function-with-string-as-input < 1326013765 206577 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The edit is the best part. < 1326013769 228691 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :meng yao included his rope diagram 8 times in his wiki edit :-D < 1326013787 678107 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: there are multiple diagrams < 1326013798 453470 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326013801 683843 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1326013805 977855 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok ok its not exactly the same < 1326013847 940413 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as to why he rotated it... i think that is a real mystery < 1326013882 85985 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and why it's jpeg and why it's generally wonky < 1326013885 95466 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :many real mysteries < 1326013913 397102 :kallisti_!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: lol. one bad idea to another. < 1326013928 511992 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps he is boycotting SVG < 1326014019 843785 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: So I read every word in that sentence once and didn't manage to piece it together. < 1326014033 466704 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm going to treat this as one of those games where you only get one try and then it's instadeath. < 1326014097 914643 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I read it a few times and still don't get it < 1326014143 517240 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`shaWhich sentence? < 1326014147 341985 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: < 1326014155 213067 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: shaWhich: not found < 1326014164 550650 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src foldl < 1326014164 707257 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :foldl f z [] = z < 1326014164 865416 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :foldl f z (x:xs) = foldl f (f z x) xs < 1326014171 960713 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1326014180 262670 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The edit. < 1326014212 625011 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: It's technically multiple sentences. :p < 1326014289 438889 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Am I a bad person if I don't really like RWH? < 1326014295 973540 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION feels guilty. < 1326014337 311044 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I haven't read RWH. < 1326014358 84872 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hasn't read all of it. < 1326014375 59092 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc says that the chapters on FFI and STM are good. < 1326014383 745647 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But all the code snippets are ugly imperative blobs. < 1326014385 249566 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't even read those. < 1326014391 875224 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also it's really outdated but I can't really blame them for that. < 1326014394 885606 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That's Real-World for you! < 1326014405 674891 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm sure you could find room in your heart to blame them for being outdated. < 1326014420 71295 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I heard they advocated putting text in ByteStrings, which is unacceptable even if one of the authors later goes on to create a Unicode text type. :p < 1326014428 160054 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I HEARD THEY'RE COMMIES. < 1326014464 230845 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :OUR PRECIOUS UNICODE FLUIDS < 1326014480 991664 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION would like to see a LYAH2: Electric Boogaloo that picks up where LYAH left off. < 1326014523 111399 :kallisti_!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is that it would still have to be written in a quirky style. < 1326014563 26811 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :LYAH isn't really. < 1326014571 103752 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lyah2: the real world no jokes allowed < 1326014579 641085 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although w(p)gtr kind of desensitised me to that sort of stuff permanently. < 1326014589 429522 :kallisti_!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"see, monads are just monoids in the category of endofunctors. Pretty simple, huh? " < 1326014589 588227 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't like LYAH much either. < 1326014592 122124 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that I've read it. < 1326014613 450566 :kallisti_!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like it because < 1326014617 845857 :kallisti_!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's how I learned Haskell. < 1326014620 491828 :kallisti_!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :initially. < 1326014623 109147 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But people occasionally come into #haskell, misled by wrong sentences in it. < 1326014637 268018 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Hmm, like what? < 1326014643 834238 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-205-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: It's not bad, it's just very, very simplistic. < 1326014661 368333 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-205-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It ends with monads. < 1326014665 469622 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: *zippers < 1326014670 695569 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-205-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Bah < 1326014680 838675 :kallisti_!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if only we could teach newbies every excrutiatingly technically correct detail of everything without scaring them away. < 1326014685 356990 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't remember. < 1326014686 308198 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Monads-as-containers or something. < 1326014694 639316 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION would write a Haskell tutorial, but nobody would read it. < 1326014700 877388 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd read it! < 1326014704 675915 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well. < 1326014710 758775 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd read it to the same degree I've read LYAH and RWH. < 1326014711 76456 :kallisti_!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you would just spam equations at the reader and be like "okay this makes perfect sense now" < 1326014717 185408 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a pretty good honour, isn't it? < 1326014732 972671 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"When we first talked about functors, we saw that they were a useful concept for values that can be mapped over. Then, we took that concept one step further by introducing applicative functors, which allow us to view values of certain data types as values with contexts and use normal functions on those values while preserving the meaning of those contexts. < 1326014733 132091 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :In this chapter, we'll learn about monads, which are just beefed up applicative functors, much like applicative functors are only beefed up functors. < 1326014733 288515 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[...] < 1326014734 399813 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Monads are a natural extension of applicative functors and with them we're concerned with this: if you have a value with a context, m a, how do you apply to it a function that takes a normal a and returns a value with a context? That is, how do you apply a function of type a -> m b to a value of type m a? So essentially, we will want this function: < 1326014738 900826 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(>>=) :: (Monad m) => m a -> (a -> m b) -> m b < 1326014740 896413 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If we have a fancy value and a function that takes a normal value but returns a fancy value, how do we feed that fancy value into the function? This is the main question that we will concern ourselves when dealing with monads. We write m a instead of f a because the m stands for Monad, but monads are just applicative functors that support >>=. The >>= function is pronounced as bind." < 1326014745 709790 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Looks pretty far away from monads-as-containers to me. < 1326014758 781159 :kallisti_!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monads-as-fancy-values < 1326014782 634718 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: "Well, there should, but when Haskell was made, it hadn't occured to people that applicative functors are a good fit for Haskell so they weren't in there." This is misleading though, EVERYBODY knows Haskell predates applicative functors. < 1326014784 626866 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :EVERYBODY < 1326014825 586182 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't remember. < 1326014837 385815 :kallisti_!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net NICK :kallisti < 1326014844 696003 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell is a natural predator of applicative functors. < 1326015059 460312 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326015066 883109 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1326015379 434631 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1326015406 675625 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :THere is also join, and that doesn't mention join < 1326015462 824544 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure it does. < 1326015466 152539 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it mentions >>= < 1326015473 449904 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: join is not in the Monad typeclass < 1326015476 416405 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::> < 1326015483 688928 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure it's mentioned id at some point < 1326015485 964786 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I know it is not in the Monad typeclass but it should be < 1326015492 567982 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: If we're arguing *that* way, it didn't mention fail. < 1326015494 707843 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ANYONE WITH A BRAIN would know that join is (>>= id) :> < 1326015501 195001 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fail is one of the essential nutrients for any Haskell monad. < 1326015566 185802 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: It does show fail and implement it in its examples, actually. < 1326015573 32304 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though it probably: shouldn't. < 1326015583 595201 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Well, LYAH is a Haskell tutorial, not a Haskell-as-it-should-be tutorial. < 1326015654 763432 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you can't learn monads properly unless you know about fmap and join as well, and their mathematical relation to >>= < 1326015673 759284 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-205-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: It does teach functors and applicative functors before monads. < 1326015679 456725 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"learn monads" should never be your goal. < 1326015688 921098 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: that's what monad tutorials are for < 1326015715 205664 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(>>=) = (8===D) < 1326015720 123482 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-205-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Not necessarily. What if you're learning category theory? :) < 1326015750 685793 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :_ === _ = (>>=) < 1326015770 168501 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: ah yes good old const (const (>>=)) < 1326015785 256028 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :my favourite < 1326015785 572747 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the best of all functions < 1326015796 934777 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait, not as good as the totem pole. < 1326015823 567066 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the best of all functions is the McCarthy 91 function < 1326015851 602151 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: What about the man or boy not-a-function? < 1326015866 10076 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@let best n | n > 100 = n-10 | otherwise = best (best (n+11)) < 1326015867 753357 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Defined. < 1326015870 422876 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> best 50 < 1326015872 15687 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 91 < 1326015878 153726 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> best 91 < 1326015879 639567 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 91 < 1326015880 312989 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix best < 1326015883 994242 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval-core: Time limit exceeded < 1326015885 775017 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fail < 1326015888 999359 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fail < 1326015889 951863 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Overlapping instances for GHC.Show.Show (GHC.Base.String -> m a) < 1326015890 267419 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising... < 1326015899 858472 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think monad are generally understand better as a endofunctor having return and join, at least to me it is. But >>= is useful too, and so is <*> and that stuff. < 1326015905 255543 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-205-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix (>>=) < 1326015906 259190 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: < 1326015906 418265 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : m = (->) (a -> m b) < 1326015911 978597 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix bеst < 1326015913 454932 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 91 < 1326015916 107533 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t fij oin < 1326015916 582135 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: It was just a bit slow, that's all. < 1326015916 899412 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `fij' < 1326015917 57842 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `oin' < 1326015919 756209 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t fix join < 1326015920 549376 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: a = m a < 1326015920 707876 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Expected type: m (m a) < 1326015920 864072 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Inferred type: m a < 1326015956 827300 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Check in the appropriate box for boy or girl < 1326015958 570342 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wondering will it ever stop and who invented this world < 1326015970 904143 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi, welcome to big burger can i take your order? < 1326015985 37038 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1326015989 764692 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-205-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone broke kmc! < 1326016000 237578 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1326016007 342241 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :For example, the list monad, join means put all list together, and for IO monad, join means if result if IO is another IO series of actions, then do the resulting one afterward. < 1326016035 700183 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1326016036 675080 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sequencing < 1326016043 148441 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sequencing < 1326016343 341844 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And with (,) monad, join will make the monoid composition < 1326016769 362419 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1326016773 623542 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speaking of (,) < 1326016780 479636 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@let best n = tell [n] >> if (n > 100) then return (n-10) else best (n+11) >>= best < 1326016781 128528 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : :13:0: < 1326016781 327882 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Multiple declarations of `L.best' < 1326016781 484116 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Declared at: > if (n > 100) then return (n-10) else bestest (n+11) >>= bestest < 1326016794 790879 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Defined. < 1326016799 517302 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> runWriter (bestest 91) < 1326016801 65412 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : (91,[91,102,92,103,93,104,94,105,95,106,96,107,97,108,98,109,99,110,100,111... < 1326016811 617445 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> runWriter (bestest 89) < 1326016813 43211 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : (91,[89,100,111,101,91,102,92,103,93,104,94,105,95,106,96,107,97,108,98,109... < 1326016820 965369 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks, lambdabot. < 1326016958 862567 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thambdabot. < 1326016961 676749 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-12-141.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1326016967 26860 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-12-141.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1326016967 183119 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1326016972 889105 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks, Hanks. Thanks. < 1326016992 373060 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Here is how John McCarthy may have written this function in Lisp, the language he invented:" < 1326017012 20125 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, because he'd've written it in Common Lisp. < 1326017061 207422 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1326017074 814059 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1326017336 822773 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326017451 279521 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: There's a reason it's called Common Lisp! < 1326017457 16021 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I... completely forget why. < 1326017672 407224 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It's derived from "Come On". < 1326017686 789867 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1326017702 967569 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326017883 890087 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, "Lisp" doesn't mean "Common Lisp" < 1326017896 591428 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, it means "whatever vaguely Lisp-like language most supports the point I'm currently trying to make" < 1326017951 40057 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Using "defun" and "t"? < 1326017958 901519 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example "Lisp is a statically-typed language with pattern matching" < 1326017993 929805 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sounds like a fun game. < 1326018002 854801 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sadly I must go to sleep. < 1326018009 969355 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in this case "Lisp" means "Lisp extended with macros for pattern-matching and a static type system, which should be trivial for the most casual observer" < 1326018016 683005 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sadly but truly < 1326018028 573992 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pattern matching? < 1326018029 523525 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Wait, I thought Haskell had a monopoly on that technique? < 1326018029 998085 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lisp? < 1326018063 480676 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Tons of Lisps have pattern matching. < 1326018066 864824 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heck, destructuring-bind is in CL. < 1326018097 333853 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh. < 1326018107 100163 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pattern matching is just a special case of unification, man. < 1326018138 173663 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Lisp is a simple, elegant language based on the lambda calculus" => R5RS Scheme with mutation and anything you don't learn in SICP removed < 1326018160 174101 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Lisp is a mature language with sophisticated implementations" => Common Lisp < 1326018162 16429 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: _The Little Schemer_ is simpler than SICP for this purpose. < 1326018172 553089 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Lisp is webscale, in the cloud" => Clojure < 1326018222 53280 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders what kmc will say about Arc < 1326018261 358136 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mumble mumble hackers and painters < 1326018337 954395 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you know there are people who still care about Arc? < 1326018346 195565 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Astonishing. < 1326018350 925998 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: R5RS really shouldn't have mutation, though. < 1326018354 59285 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least not set-car!/cdr!. < 1326018360 610782 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :set! I can bear. < 1326018384 470498 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh < 1326018387 739022 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :been fighting with this recently < 1326018394 336169 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :to get some Scheme code to work in Racket < 1326018403 715916 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: #lang r5rs? < 1326018406 726916 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or whatever the syntax is. < 1326018409 17167 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't do everything I want < 1326018411 762109 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, we have it working now < 1326018433 309457 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thinks it was a deliberately breaking change to make Racket more distinct as its own language < 1326018444 507459 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, it seems weird to use pairs also as reference cells < 1326018445 726332 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it was still PLT Scheme then < 1326018463 576564 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there's probably some benefit in having reference cells, distinct from mutable environments < 1326018468 397214 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i'll have to think about what that might be < 1326018468 872369 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, true < 1326018479 860741 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: it's a legacy from lisp implementations of ye olden days, I think < 1326018483 852634 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1326018485 496247 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :where even implementation structures were made out of cons cells < 1326018493 553450 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know picolisp still does everything like that < 1326018501 960612 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I have no actual evidence old implementations were like that < 1326018504 858861 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"what, you don't do everything inside a metacircular evaluator" < 1326018514 431192 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"how do you write language extensions?!?" < 1326018559 32808 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Is this for your educational thing? < 1326018575 257035 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know what you mean < 1326018584 474332 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zombie 6.001 is http://web.mit.edu/alexmv/6.S184/ < 1326018586 645049 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You were talking about something earlier. < 1326018586 803114 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm helping teach it < 1326018590 984541 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. Yes, that. < 1326018623 777733 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That looks like a fun class thing. < 1326018628 928742 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1326018632 495888 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should follow along < 1326018650 307491 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does one do that? < 1326018658 953055 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do I have to move to Boston? < 1326018666 763780 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION closes some tabs so he can see the favicons again. < 1326018670 191660 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i expect lecture slides and assignments will be posted < 1326018746 324874 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm just at the brink. Interesting tabs are a zero-sum game now. < 1326018762 202140 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thinks project 3 might be kind of a challenge, even as an instructor < 1326018784 994380 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but it's not posted yet) < 1326018789 662392 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's project 3? < 1326018803 143399 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :a bunch of extensions to the metacircular evaluator < 1326018807 315633 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :including an interactive debugger < 1326018825 250986 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, a debugger. < 1326018908 989521 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't actually read SICP. I probably should. < 1326018929 104749 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've not read it cover to cover < 1326018936 514243 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i think i've read most parts of it at some point or another < 1326018999 642791 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, you've convinced me. I'll follow along. < 1326019017 733367 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should send me a reminder when it starts, if you remember. :-) < 1326019020 413576 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1326019022 861952 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it starts on Monday < 1326019025 361586 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, Tuesday < 1326019032 101138 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suddenly realise I've never written a debugger. < 1326019034 534394 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION keeps forgetting that Tuesday isn't Monday < 1326019037 56677 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Probably because I don't like debuggers.) < 1326019040 774389 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1326019056 729004 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Write a C debugger in Haskell for me. < 1326019071 402779 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And make it like gdb except satisfying whatever mysterious criteria a debugger must satisfy for me to like it. < 1326019142 276390 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where are the slides etc. going to be posted? < 1326019143 933384 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I don't think it's possible to like anything that exclusively exists to make you focus in depth on the exact control flow of an imperative prorgam. < 1326019154 691484 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prorgam! < 1326019158 682218 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, for zombie 6.001? at the URL i just linked, I think < 1326019181 539438 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is new to this < 1326019194 947545 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. I'll keep a tab open. < 1326019209 346080 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :will try to remind you < 1326019216 557206 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hopefully I remember to reload it on Tuesday. < 1326019225 137852 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :first project will be posted Tuesday night < 1326019234 482637 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION cleverly executes a rebalancing algorithm by moving a pair of tabs from one window to another. < 1326019238 210222 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: The best way to GC tabs is to turn your computer off every day. < 1326019253 842299 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION just holds down the power button so he doesn't get a chance to think about saving them. < 1326019263 395237 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That would be a tragedy. < 1326019269 806181 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the best way is to run a browser which crashes a lot < 1326019272 662063 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This collection of tabs has been building up for about a year. < 1326019277 998879 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My browser crashes but recovers. < 1326019287 209480 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t fromRational < 1326019288 41348 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Fractional a) => Rational -> a < 1326019300 302253 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle Floating a => a -> Float < 1326019300 938810 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude acos :: Floating a => a -> a < 1326019301 131238 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude acosh :: Floating a => a -> a < 1326019301 131416 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude asin :: Floating a => a -> a < 1326019303 200191 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right. < 1326019307 810744 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle Double -> Float < 1326019308 128528 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unsafe.Coerce unsafeCoerce :: a -> b < 1326019308 444914 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.OldException throwDyn :: Typeable exception => exception -> b < 1326019308 601198 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.DeepSeq ($!!) :: NFData a => (a -> b) -> a -> b < 1326019311 505591 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lmao < 1326019319 851022 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1326019321 317557 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the fuck < 1326019333 251408 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle (RealFloat a) => a -> b < 1326019333 608143 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unsafe.Coerce unsafeCoerce :: a -> b < 1326019333 766463 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude isDenormalized :: RealFloat a => a -> Bool < 1326019333 922784 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude isIEEE :: RealFloat a => a -> Bool < 1326019336 205812 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forget if RealFloat is a thing. < 1326019337 46663 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it is. < 1326019338 630793 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle (RealFloat a) => a -> Float < 1326019338 987775 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude significand :: RealFloat a => a -> a < 1326019339 145835 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude id :: a -> a < 1326019339 303663 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Function id :: a -> a < 1326019342 477132 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle (RealFrac a) => a -> Float < 1326019342 793948 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude id :: a -> a < 1326019342 952090 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Function id :: a -> a < 1326019343 108259 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :GHC.Exts breakpoint :: a -> a < 1326019346 215810 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, come on! < 1326019349 524874 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle /msg < 1326019349 700767 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Parse error: < 1326019349 858848 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t Control.OldException.throwDyn :: Double -> Float < 1326019350 17507 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : /msg < 1326019350 174741 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ^ < 1326019350 812315 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Double -> Float < 1326019357 921555 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> Control.OldException.throwDyn 3.0 < 1326019358 756536 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: `Control.OldException.throwDyn' < 1326019390 231003 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a fun type. < 1326019400 583994 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you even do Float -> Double or w/e < 1326019404 464879 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hasn't used floating-point much in Haskell < 1326019410 77421 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t realToFrac < 1326019410 909032 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b. (Real a, Fractional b) => a -> b < 1326019412 64930 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1326019414 942608 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t realToFrac :: Float -> Double < 1326019415 774227 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Float -> Double < 1326019417 359558 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I knew that existed, I just forgot its name < 1326019418 667213 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and type < 1326019462 943268 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is the best typeclass: < 1326019465 60931 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src Real < 1326019465 407809 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :class (Num a, Ord a) => Real a where < 1326019465 566047 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : toRational :: a -> Rational < 1326019481 902301 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :class F a where { f :: a } < 1326019557 521524 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Haskell should get rid of value declarations. < 1326019557 879035 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should move to Boston for a month. < 1326019565 828410 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could just use a newtype record and an instance. < 1326019578 157678 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1326019582 905480 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, which month? < 1326019594 829277 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326019612 415684 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know. I guess the bad months are just around now. < 1326019860 976678 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326019862 929351 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1326019989 977093 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I was going to sleep. < 1326020407 326048 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1326020432 51515 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Hi. < 1326020441 906479 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Thanks. < 1326020513 857056 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Did I wake you up? < 1326020523 425965 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :thelliott < 1326020567 678294 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks, kmc. < 1326020618 427289 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stumped you there, didn't I. < 1326020628 191097 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1326020677 553710 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1326020689 516931 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I'm going to sleep. < 1326020697 555655 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :good night, shachaf < 1326020703 692873 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :gochaf < 1326021596 394830 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326021969 753723 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1326022769 333531 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :class Comonoid a where { ytpme :: a -> (); dneppa :: a -> (a,a) } < 1326022784 910419 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no.... < 1326022803 647979 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what laws does it follow < 1326022936 867854 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The inverse of the monoid laws, duh. < 1326022960 181186 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :help < 1326023031 445006 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Come on, monqy, it's just comonads extended from endofunctors. < 1326023090 627159 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl use v5.10; say scalar caller; say eval "scalar caller"; < 1326023093 166268 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​\ main < 1326023120 824484 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi perl < 1326023122 652067 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Evil scalar caller. < 1326023170 235490 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo 'scalar caller' > blah.pl; perl -e 'print do "blah.pl"'; rm blah.pl < 1326023173 856435 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :main < 1326023194 336689 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo 'scalar caller' > blah.pl; perl -e 'package Foo; print do "blah.pl"'; rm blah.pl < 1326023198 181585 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Foo < 1326023232 373756 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1326023293 797533 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I /think/ I can use this... < 1326023304 631811 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :to write code that can reload itself. < 1326023331 698808 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can just check caller and if it's the name of the package, run any kind of necessary hot-swap code. < 1326023606 936726 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : no.... < 1326023607 95336 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : what laws does it follow < 1326023647 518153 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: i er < 1326023658 923377 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: i don't know < 1326023662 540897 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1326023672 171578 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Come on, monqy, it's just comonads extended from endofunctors. < 1326023683 14892 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Not really, you'd need a < 1326023696 249409 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :class SortaCategory (~>) one (*) < 1326023698 710489 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever. < 1326023703 146415 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*id < 1326023719 529824 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ytpme :: id ~> one; dneppa :: id ~> id*id < 1326023733 827433 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hmmmm that won't always work I think.... < 1326023767 152152 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I write new code that removes a method, the reload won't hide that method. < 1326023777 680585 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it can redefine and add methods no problem. < 1326023834 508518 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo '$x' > blah.pl; perl -e 'local $x = 5; print do "blah.pl"'; rm blah.pl < 1326023837 203721 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :5 < 1326023850 196884 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo '$x' > blah.pl; perl -e 'my $x = 5; print do "blah.pl"'; rm blah.pl < 1326023853 798766 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1326023863 52657 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :awwww yeah. < 1326023876 274894 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can do so many evil things with that trick. < 1326023880 379897 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: (What is a comonoid really?) < 1326023888 104203 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it's a monoid in the opposite category. < 1326023897 336838 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1326023901 343521 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the opposite category is just flipping all the arrows. < 1326023912 58102 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, um... what's the comonoid equivalent of Monoid? < 1326023965 562192 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Comonoid. < 1326023968 230078 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1326024033 11959 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, um, if you take the definition with a category with one object A, and take the underlying set to be Hom(A,A) and the multiplication operator to be ., you get... < 1326024039 497565 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The exact same monoid? < 1326024066 556174 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Q.E.D. < 1326024172 797327 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo 'package X; our $x = 3' > blah.pl; perl -e 'package X; our $x = 2; do "blah.pl"; print $x;' rm blah.pl < 1326024176 117378 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 < 1326024198 742854 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh that's so good... < 1326024226 508775 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :why kallisti why................ < 1326024237 65372 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: to have an IRC bot that never needs to be shutdown ever. < 1326024342 216465 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat blah.pl < 1326024345 237143 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :package X; our $x = 3 < 1326024357 875446 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1326024379 248266 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run rm blah.pl < 1326024382 135790 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1326024410 421195 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not without flaws though. I can't redefine lexical variables at the top-level this way. < 1326024423 373148 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps that is for the best < 1326024423 571123 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :because... well, they're lexical. < 1326024463 494427 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but most top-level variables are going to be package scope or dynamic scope anyway. < 1326024517 224553 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :now for something fun... < 1326024724 819735 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo 'package X; my $caller = caller; eval "require $caller";' > X.pm; echo 'package Y; if (my $caller = caller) { eval "require $caller" } else { require X }' > Y.pm; perl Y.pm < 1326024728 468727 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1326024732 625819 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1326024738 101386 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1326024748 327207 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't recursively require things like that. < 1326024761 233314 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo 'package X; my $caller = caller; eval "require $caller";' > X.pm; echo 'package Y; if (my $caller = caller) { eval "require $caller" } else { print %INC; require X }' > Y.pm; perl Y.pm < 1326024764 598683 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1326024785 674721 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo 'package X; print %INC; my $caller = caller; eval "require $caller";' > X.pm; echo 'package Y; if (my $caller = caller) { eval "require $caller" } else { require X }' > Y.pm; perl Y.pm < 1326024789 201321 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :X.pmX.pm < 1326024932 251089 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo 'package X; do caller.".pm";' > X.pm; echo 'package Y; if (my $caller = caller) { do "$caller.pm" } else { require X }' > Y.pm; perl Y.pm < 1326024935 266795 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warning: Use of "caller" without parentheses is ambiguous at X.pm line 1. \ Warning: Use of "caller" without parentheses is ambiguous at X.pm line 1. \ Warning: Use of "caller" without parentheses is ambiguous at X.pm line 1. \ Warning: Use of "caller" without parentheses is ambiguous at X.pm line 1. \ Warning: Use of "caller" without parentheses is ambiguous at X.pm line 1. \ Warning: Use of "caller" without parentheses < 1326024944 148931 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1326024970 876664 :Zuu!zuu@unaffiliated/zuu QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1326024980 454081 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently not very ambiguous because it did exactly what I wanted. :P < 1326025011 535751 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo "main = print \"test\"" < 1326025014 931407 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :main = print "test" < 1326025023 845321 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1326025030 662740 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't remember what I was doing with that < 1326025035 473369 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :me neither. < 1326025085 151485 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo "main = print \"test\"" > test.hs; runhaskell test.hs < 1326025093 779158 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​"test" < 1326025105 791920 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`rm test.hs < 1326025109 136 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1326025174 52342 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://search.cpan.org/~sprout/Sub-Delete-1.00002/lib/Sub/Delete.pm < 1326025181 759478 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could maybe use this if I need to delete subs. < 1326025208 500020 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :undef ⊂ works kinda < 1326025239 465440 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, hmmm... < 1326025252 440556 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could completely destroy the symbol table before I reload. lol. < 1326025322 15422 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah does java not have a built in rounding function that rounds away from zero in case of .5 < 1326025357 53248 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lolMath.round? < 1326025362 481344 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, from the docs of Math.round it seems to always round up? So -0.5 would end up as 0? < 1326025364 741734 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops lol virus < 1326025377 781632 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh that's... weird. maybe they're wrong. < 1326025389 30113 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe they mean "rounds up" in terms of absolute value. < 1326025392 407077 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm perhaps < 1326025403 612220 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :no REPR for java so a bit annoying to test such < 1326025432 344681 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :read eval print read < 1326025437 427014 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just exits after the second read < 1326025443 151746 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :useful(tm) < 1326025504 132152 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nonsense. it's just as simple as public class Test { public static void main(String[] argv) { ... } < 1326025505 684359 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least it pays attention < 1326025519 762636 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :not like those dirty EEPLs < 1326025559 681914 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then System.out.println(Math.round(-0.5)) assuming you imported Math < 1326025564 359888 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so. easy. < 1326025580 545072 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, typo :P < 1326025589 794629 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but I guess I could justify it as read eval print repeat < 1326025595 470222 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something < 1326025599 77773 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait no deleting the symbol is probably a bad idea oh wait nevermind that's a great idea. < 1326025708 581895 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo 'package X; our $x = 3;' > X.pm; perl -e 'package X; our $x = 2; sub test() { print "WOAH" }; undef %X::; do "X.pm"; test'; < 1326025711 916474 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :WOAH < 1326025719 87223 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, no. < 1326025721 880386 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a good idea. :P < 1326025733 86331 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo 'package X; our $x = 3;' > X.pm; perl -e 'package X; our $x = 2; sub test() { print "WOAH" }; %X:: = (); do "X.pm"; test'; < 1326025736 362218 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :WOAH < 1326025748 203371 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :subroutines get some kind of magic namespace < 1326025750 171362 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :????? < 1326025754 851855 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. < 1326025803 176531 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo 'package X; our $x = 3;' > X.pm; perl -e 'package X; our $y = 2; sub test() { print "WOAH" }; %X:: = (); do "X.pm"; print $x, $y;' < 1326025806 632177 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 < 1326025817 923890 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh < 1326026116 133113 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo 'package X; our $x = 3;' > X.pm; perl -e 'package X; use strict; our $y = 2; sub test() { print "WOAH" }; %X:: = (); do "X.pm"; print $x, $y;' < 1326026119 468119 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Global symbol "$x" requires explicit package name at -e line 1. \ Execution of -e aborted due to compilation errors. < 1326026137 835067 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo 'package X; our $x = 3;' > X.pm; perl -e 'package X; use strict; our ($y,$x) = (2,5); sub test() { print "WOAH" }; %X:: = (); do "X.pm"; print $x, $y;' < 1326026140 858088 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :52 < 1326026195 69567 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm I spoke too soon. < 1326026236 860245 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo 'package X; our $x = 3;' > X.pm; perl -e 'package X; use strict; our ($y,$x) = (2,5); sub test() { print "WOAH" }; do "X.pm"; print $x, $y;' < 1326026240 111011 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :32 < 1326026253 283672 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay so. for future reference: don't try to delete symbol tables < 1326026258 887215 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird things will happen. < 1326026403 68715 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo 'package X; our $x = 3;' > X.pm; perl -e 'package X; use strict; our ($y,$x) = (2,5); sub test() { print "WOAH" }; %X:: = (); do "X.pm"; print "directly, x=$x, y=$y\n"; eval "print \"evally, x=\$x, y=\$y\\n\"";' < 1326026406 377096 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :directly, x=5, y=2 \ evally, x=3, y= < 1326026416 904293 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ah because of compilation < 1326026464 17567 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://stackoverflow.com/questions/4623556/symbol-table-deleting-entries-question < 1326026466 973940 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :according to this < 1326026511 93560 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a reasonable theory. < 1326026569 173312 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Though you should of course give equal time to the "intelligent variable" theory, too.) < 1326026582 601083 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't studied that one. < 1326026586 342315 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :are variables sentient in perl? < 1326026595 893038 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's something like that, yes. < 1326026634 965592 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so unless all the code I execute afterwards is part of an eval, my symbol table deletions take no effect. < 1326026729 391346 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://cpansearch.perl.org/src/SPROUT/Sub-Delete-1.00002/lib/Sub/Delete.pm < 1326026739 283330 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what that magical looking subroutine at the top does. < 1326026777 997763 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :magic < 1326026855 242801 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :my $glob = *$globname; # autovivify the glob in case future perl < 1326026859 489104 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you never know when future perl might happen. < 1326026942 331226 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :keys %imported_slots == 1 and exists $imported_slots{SCALAR} and !$imported_slots{SCALAR} and Internals'SvREFCNT $$glob =>== 1 and !defined *$glob{IO} and !defined *$glob{FORMAT} and return; # empty glob < 1326026946 225095 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god what is this. < 1326026969 584191 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :=>== 1 ??????? < 1326026989 69215 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :REALLY greater than or equal to. < 1326027119 483422 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run perl -e '1 =>== 2' < 1326027122 759864 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :syntax error at -e line 1, near "=>==" \ Execution of -e aborted due to compilation errors. < 1326027129 390473 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It must be some kind of real magic. < 1326027139 149642 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait... < 1326027142 203417 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could be either... < 1326027144 438674 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric := >= = < 1326027147 54946 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :=> == < 1326027149 511458 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or ... < 1326027150 620107 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1326027155 944560 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does that even mean < 1326027191 180203 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the use of ' there too < 1326027200 213867 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl my $x = 3; print Intervals'SvREFCNT \$x < 1326027201 45378 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1326027216 23520 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh this code doesn't use strict; < 1326027220 860414 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Internals, not Intervals. < 1326027227 672041 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl my $x = 3; print Internals'SvREFCNT \$x < 1326027228 188512 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Type of arg 1 to Internals::SvREFCNT must be one of [$%@] (not single ref constructor) at /tmp/input.7682 line 1, at EOF \ Execution of /tmp/input.7682 aborted due to compilation errors. < 1326027236 535177 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl my $x = 3; print Internals'SvREFCNT $x < 1326027237 170230 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 < 1326027246 465780 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :not very surprising. < 1326027307 99756 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl my $x = 3; print Internals'SvREFCNT $x =>== 1 < 1326027307 732936 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 < 1326027318 979890 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl my $x = 3; print Internals'SvREFCNT $x => == 1 < 1326027319 455966 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 < 1326027322 675161 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl my $x = 3; print Internals'SvREFCNT $x = >== 1 < 1326027323 151712 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :syntax error at /tmp/input.7967 line 1, near "= >=" \ Execution of /tmp/input.7967 aborted due to compilation errors. < 1326027333 278373 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hmmm < 1326027337 122342 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what the comma does. < 1326027342 896480 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl my $x = 3; print Internals'SvREFCNT $x , == 1 < 1326027343 616757 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 < 1326027362 691017 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing? < 1326027368 188538 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it's to disambiguate something? < 1326027381 142117 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl my $x = 3; print Internals'SvREFCNT $x, 1 < 1326027381 617107 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :1Attempt to free unreferenced scalar: SV 0x7f56d20d4a30, Perl interpreter: 0x7f56d20b3010. < 1326027384 710700 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The bestest. < 1326027388 801541 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl my $x = 3; print Internals'SvREFCNT $x == 1 < 1326027389 453324 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Type of arg 1 to Internals::SvREFCNT must be one of [$%@] (not numeric eq (==)) at /tmp/input.8217 line 1, at EOF \ Execution of /tmp/input.8217 aborted due to compilation errors. < 1326027392 211446 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1326027408 796865 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's to prevent that < 1326027425 945454 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of, you know, using parentheses. < 1326027432 441950 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :=>== lololololol < 1326027526 276528 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :a regular comma would have been much clearer < 1326027533 829115 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl print abs -4 =>== 42 < 1326027534 342767 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :4 < 1326027550 364962 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it's some weird idiom I've never seen? < 1326027591 353815 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :....wat < 1326027596 589901 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1326027597 382294 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1326027628 890707 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :=>== is to == as and is to && < 1326027667 208652 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t randoms < 1326027668 1296 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall g a. (Random a, RandomGen g) => g -> [a] < 1326027682 577055 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeally I'd use ,== or , == or (most likely) parentheses < 1326027717 274889 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The half-orphan comma looks pretty silly too. < 1326027809 112063 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is tempted to use this module with use strict turned on and see how many warnings/errors he gets. < 1326027904 455081 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway this will work in many of the cases I'm concerned with, where I have plugins redefining methods. I think.. < 1326027976 76503 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1326028059 814349 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo 'package X; our $x = 3;' > X.pm; perl -e 'package X; use strict; our ($y,$x) = (2,5); sub test() { print "WOAH" }; %X:: = (); do "X.pm"; X::test' < 1326028063 371579 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :WOAH < 1326028088 492047 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo 'package X; our $x = 3;' > X.pm; perl -e 'package X; use strict; our ($y,$x) = (2,5); sub test() { print "WOAH" }; %X:: = (); do "X.pm"; package Blah; X::test' < 1326028091 633338 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :WOAH < 1326028095 996509 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, well, nevermind < 1326028103 320517 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll just... not try to delete symbol tables. < 1326028154 455836 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo 'package X; our $x = 3; sub test { print "SHADOOSH" }' > X.pm; perl -e 'package X; use strict; our ($y,$x) = (2,5); sub test() { print "WOAH" }; %X:: = (); do "X.pm"; package Blah; X::test' < 1326028157 831535 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :WOAH < 1326028170 76232 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo 'package X; our $x = 3; sub test { print "SHADOOSH" }' > X.pm; perl -e 'package X; use strict; our ($y,$x) = (2,5); sub test { print "WOAH" }; %X:: = (); do "X.pm"; package Blah; X::test' < 1326028172 886119 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :WOAH < 1326028175 183722 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1326028230 877597 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure why it suddenly doesn't work because I add that symbol table line < 1326028240 843306 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo 'package X; our $x = 3; sub test { print "SHADOOSH" }' > X.pm; perl -e 'package X; use strict; our ($y,$x) = (2,5); sub test { print "WOAH" }; do "X.pm"; package Blah; X::test' < 1326028244 174502 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :SHADOOSH < 1326028284 677430 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: just how sentient are variables in Perl exactly. < 1326028339 195068 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run perl -e 'package X; our $x = 3; %X:: = (); our $x = 4; print $x' < 1326028342 127685 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :4 < 1326028397 912713 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no TOPIC #esoteric :Official revolting channel of the inverse femtobarn stupid topic change plurality, the original Trilogy: A new PHP | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1326028457 528585 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo 'package X; %X:: = (); our $x = 3;' > X.pm; perl -e 'package X; use strict; our ($y,$x) = (2,5); sub test() { print "WOAH" }; do "X.pm"; package Blah; X::test' < 1326028460 674537 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :WOAH < 1326028502 171220 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :HackEgo: you sound so impressed < 1326028514 953278 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't understand at all... < 1326028567 498381 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo 'package X; %X:: = (); our $x = 3;' > X.pm; perl -e 'package X; use strict; our ($y,$x) = (2,5); sub test() { print "WOAH" }; do "X.pm"; sub foo { test}; foo ' < 1326028571 270063 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :WOAH < 1326028585 443596 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION should write a hello Template Haskell program or something < 1326028595 797008 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello, Template World! < 1326028620 658696 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't like the notion of needing a separate module though < 1326028623 353573 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: can you make sense of this. < 1326028772 786899 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not entirely sure I want to. < 1326028793 802628 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: perhaps you should add -w ? < 1326028799 492887 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I think it complicates type-checking if you don't enforce that. < 1326028808 17541 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't really know what kallisti is trying < 1326028813 153966 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :TH is a pain because it messes up the compiler control flow. < 1326028819 569760 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thus the restrictions. < 1326028843 415352 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I suspect compilation again. I mean, do "X.pm" equals eval `cat X.pm`, on compilation-time the 'test' in sub foo presumably gets turned into a reference of the sub test. < 1326028843 891610 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I'm trying to write code that can reload itself. < 1326028876 297337 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the reloading part is easy, however... all the old symbols that weren't overwritten get left behind unless you do something to delete them beforehand. < 1326028886 678718 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and now I'm encountering weirdness with Perl and its symbol table. < 1326028910 241660 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :specifically %X:: = (); doesn't appear to do what you would expect. < 1326028930 312013 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you must simply expect something else. < 1326028937 244395 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The subroutine is completely obliterated from the symbol table (though there may be references to it elsewhere, including in compiled code)", like Sub::Delete says. < 1326028967 7929 :Zuu!zuu@77.215.149.86 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326028967 167620 :Zuu!zuu@77.215.149.86 QUIT :Changing host < 1326028967 323944 :Zuu!zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric < 1326028980 861792 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would seem if that were the case then completely redefining the symbol table via a do "X.pm" shouldn't do anything to the outer code. < 1326029004 921780 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, if I write %X:: = (); before the do, then that's exactly what happens. < 1326029012 268627 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if I remove that line, then the do redefines symbols as expected. < 1326029091 429869 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo 'package X; %X:: = (); our $x = 3;' > X.pm; perl -e 'package X; use strict; our ($y,$x) = (2,5); sub test() { print "WOAH" }; local %X:: = (); do "X.pm"; test ' < 1326029094 878874 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :WOAH < 1326029167 330248 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo 'package X; %X:: = (); our $x = 3; sub test { print "hi" }' > X.pm; perl -e 'package X; use strict; our ($y,$x) = (2,5); sub test() { print "WOAH" }; local %X:: = (); do "X.pm"; test ' < 1326029170 638428 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :WOAH < 1326029186 264560 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo 'package X; our $x = 3; sub test { print "hi" }' > X.pm; perl -e 'package X; use strict; our ($y,$x) = (2,5); sub test() { print "WOAH" }; local %X:: = (); do "X.pm"; test ' < 1326029189 341235 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :WOAH < 1326029193 542510 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, I give up. :P < 1326029221 172457 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could just forget about the symbol tables and use coderefs you manage manually. < 1326029282 405241 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking that I could probably just manually delete subroutines when I hotswap if leaving them present would break the system. < 1326029337 242818 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that might have the same problem. < 1326029350 721289 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notes a subtle edit to the intro blurb in today's darths & droids < 1326029370 881831 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, "subtle" < 1326029412 938480 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whee! < 1326029413 612505 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :makeDef text = [d|helloDefinition = $(litE . stringL $ text)|] < 1326029438 640125 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thinks it's somewhat confusing as to when something puts stuff in the Q monad and when it doesn't < 1326029462 325328 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what parts are confusing < 1326029490 838772 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo 'package X; our $x = 3; sub test { print "hi" }' > X.pm; perl -e 'package X; use strict; our ($y,$x) = (2,5); sub test() { print "WOAH" }; undef &test; do "X.pm"; test ' < 1326029494 11949 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1326029511 560671 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I undefine subroutines that way it works fine, so... yes that's an option. < 1326029512 194701 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forget what does what and what does what except that the constructors don't and the lowercasey functioney things do < 1326029535 566638 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo 'package X; sub test { print "new!" }' > X.pm; perl -e 'package X; use strict; sub test { print "old!" }; do "X.pm"; test; package Blah; X::test' < 1326029538 818192 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :new!new! < 1326029544 879848 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo 'package X; sub test { print "new!" }' > X.pm; perl -e 'package X; use strict; sub test { print "old!" }; %X:: = (); do "X.pm"; test; package Blah; X::test' < 1326029548 484899 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :old!old! < 1326029552 203710 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy, yeah, I'm starting to think that's the rule of thumb < 1326029553 986509 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: I'm thinking the %X:: = () symbol table deletion there wipes out the symbol table entry, so the "sub test" in X.pm gets bound to a new entry and therefore doesn't get called; while when you don't wipe it out, the "sub test" in X.pm just overwrites the CODE slot of that glob, and therefore does get called. < 1326029569 360072 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also didn't realize that [d|..] did a list of the things, and not a single one < 1326029580 691086 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I initially tried to sequence the thing < 1326029584 695354 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo 'package X; our $x = 3; sub test { print "hi" }' > X.pm; perl -e 'package X; use strict; our ($y,$x) = (2,5); sub test() { print "WOAH" }; undef &test; do "X.pm"; test ' < 1326029587 864750 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1326029589 808009 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: You're always meant to use the functions. < 1326029595 848144 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :As opposed to the constructors directly. < 1326029604 767686 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :TH sucks, by the way. < 1326029606 37884 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except when pattern matching? < 1326029608 982573 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No shit. < 1326029611 847626 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: so I could loop through the symbol table and undef all the variables maybe? < 1326029625 932036 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does TH suck? < 1326029638 334062 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: it will quickly become apparent < 1326029651 469887 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: unless you're really bad at noticing bad things < 1326029653 328127 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have 3 choices here: Use TH, write a program to output Haskell code, or go insane. < 1326029655 430276 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: No it won't, he likes Active Worlds. < 1326029664 757401 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I was thinking more station v3 but that works too < 1326029668 442094 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Pick (d) Don't do whatever bad thing you're trying to do. < 1326029679 303646 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: code generation is cool. write a perl script. < 1326029683 148375 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there aren't any th alternatives are there :( < 1326029688 932053 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpp doesnt count < 1326029691 309641 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I write all of my Haskell in perl. < 1326029693 394047 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Anyway: http://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/nny43/readargs_for_quick_argument_parsing/c3apz9x?context=1 < 1326029702 20065 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Most people avoid TH for basically those reasons./ < 1326029704 810192 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*no / < 1326029718 483840 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deriving lenses is the main TH usecase these days :P < 1326029760 200244 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: (The "BTW, I despise anything using TH. Including my own code." quote is from augustss, if Big Names convince you of things.) < 1326029821 339264 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: what bad thing are you trying to do , anyway < 1326029848 485809 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: I don't really know about Perl internals, I don't know what the compilation stores in the code. If it's a typeglob-like reference, I suppose you could just zero the CODE slots of all the entries; that I think should stop old compiled code calling them, if that's what you want. (Well, except if some place actually stored a coderef to the old sub, I'm not sure if that's even possible to break.) < 1326029862 577782 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: don't don't say that he'll tell us < 1326029869 280321 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy, automate the creation of functions and data structures based on specifications that I.. err, specify, largely copy-pasted from the AW wiki < 1326029879 776463 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: no that can't break. < 1326029965 350667 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's not really an issue < 1326029976 148976 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :all the old coderefs get redefined anyway. < 1326029978 644502 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: automate? < 1326029993 74378 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy, as opposed to writing out countless definitions by hand. < 1326029998 711090 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the coderefs in my program are in the bot command table, which will get redefined during the hotswap) < 1326030097 625636 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically I'll just add a line so that, if the caller is the package itself, it will autorun a special hotswap routine that basically reinitializes everything. < 1326030581 740548 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll zero basically everything. I don't want old package-scope variables to be visible either. < 1326030620 250564 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would it be better for me to write a program to write the Haskell code instead? < 1326030635 347138 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: it would be pretty easy I'd thin. if it's sufficiently boring. < 1326030668 227734 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :why are you doing what you are doing in the way you are doing it < 1326030676 589897 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and why are you doing what you are doing < 1326030679 233368 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: If you can't avoid whatever you're doing, then yes. < 1326030689 418360 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: If your needs are simple enough, use {-# LANGUAGE CPP #-} instead. < 1326030735 292019 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run perl -e 'package X; our ($x, $y, $z) = 1..3; print %X::' < 1326030738 542763 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :y*X::yx*X::xz*X::z < 1326030854 350849 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run perl -e 'package X; our ($x, $y, $z) = 1..3; $X::{x}{SCALAR} = undef; print $x' < 1326030857 570847 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 < 1326030857 726487 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, this sounds like an awfully complex way to do hotswapping of code above. And what if the old code is still executing in another thread? < 1326030861 242387 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sounds like he's doing some hard core code generation < 1326030878 747268 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run perl -e 'package X; use strict; our ($x, $y, $z) = 1..3; $X::{x}{SCALAR} = undef; print $x' < 1326030882 276550 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 < 1326030889 367038 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: can you think of any better alternatives? < 1326030896 234033 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, using erlang? ;P < 1326030900 279211 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope. < 1326030905 603688 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you have a good perl-to-erlang translator. < 1326030949 264445 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember a MUD codebase I used to maintain used... execl? or something? < 1326030975 204674 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it somehow magically transferred sockets. I didn't really understand it. < 1326031000 718445 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, erlang basically does it by allowing you to have multiple versions of a module at the same time in memory and then when you are ready you tell threads to jump over to the new one (how: module:foo refers to the last version, but inside module a plain foo would refer to the current version, so you just call module:foo from inside the module itself if that is where the main loop is) < 1326031013 49189 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(gen_server and such abstracts that away) < 1326031035 261676 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, eh when you exec existing file descriptors aren't closed. < 1326031055 853829 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you specifically set some flag on the fd using fcntl iirc < 1326031072 225824 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, so that is why they hang around < 1326031074 528800 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :are sockets... file descriptors? < 1326031084 608015 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, obviously, what did you think they were? < 1326031098 731438 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm thinking of bash file descriptors I think. is that the same thing? < 1326031128 702470 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :like fds as in open() or such < 1326031136 964111 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure what you mean with bash fds < 1326031142 407076 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the numbered ones. < 1326031157 562851 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is what everything uses on *nix? < 1326031163 786525 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so why bash specifically < 1326031164 103973 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see. < 1326031174 913508 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :FILE* is just a wrapper around fds < 1326031183 807659 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I don't fully understand file descriptors. < 1326031188 815551 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how are the numbers assigned? < 1326031198 375625 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :by the programmer or the OS? < 1326031204 206493 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1326031206 982485 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant < 1326031213 636164 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what algorithm is followed by the OS. < 1326031214 429794 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if any. < 1326031228 716897 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, probably "next unused" I would guess < 1326031235 614827 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can of course move a fd and such < 1326031236 608260 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fds get reused immediately < 1326031239 315778 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :did that in cfunge < 1326031249 754232 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I guess they use a free-list or w/e < 1326031255 446640 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in other words could I do something 3>&1 and have some file in my program assigned to STDOUT? < 1326031261 29566 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, does POSIX say that or is it just how it works on Linux? < 1326031263 992136 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : unless you specifically set some flag on the fd using fcntl iirc < 1326031268 358679 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :At open() time too; O_CLOEXEC. < 1326031273 690359 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1326031274 207532 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: POSIX says nothing about it afaik. < 1326031280 112456 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1326031321 72807 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, not entirely sure what bash does there in terms of which syscalls < 1326031336 870900 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, I would guess it calls dup(3)? < 1326031344 692618 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather dup2(3) < 1326031346 656 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION had previously thought it was the case that file descriptor referred to any open files, but I think through some conversation in this channel I was convinced that it was a bash-related concept. < 1326031393 31639 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :POSIX-2008: dup(3) equivalent to fcntl(fildes, F_DUPFD, 0); fcntl F_DUPFD "Return a new file descriptor which shall be the lowest numbered available (that is, not already open) file descriptor greater than or equal to the third argument, arg, taken as an integer of type int." < 1326031394 76232 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: If it was a bash-only concept, I'm not sure what you'd call the return value of open(2). < 1326031396 36068 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, if you inspect a struct FILE it will, amongst other things, contain a field for the fd < 1326031402 605456 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :So when dup'ing it's always the "smallest free". < 1326031404 823415 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :there will be various flags and buffer things and so on too < 1326031405 615842 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least on POSIX. < 1326031417 280900 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: this may come as a shock but I don't know much about syscalls. < 1326031423 455647 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or C. < 1326031425 58132 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does POSIX actually specify that stdio must be implemented as a wrapper around fd stuff? < 1326031426 327213 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The open() function shall return a file descriptor for the named file that is the lowest file descriptor not currently open for that process." < 1326031428 747341 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I used dup2() in cfunge iirc to move some fd about for PERL < 1326031429 857947 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same for 'open'. < 1326031433 691353 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously a conforming C can implement fopen() without file descriptors. < 1326031444 527367 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/about/around/ < 1326031452 495480 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so uh... is 3>&1 a bad idea? < 1326031470 126161 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Not if you want to redirect fd 3 to stdout. < 1326031471 631933 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :So the "lowest number that's not in use" is in fact in POSIX. < 1326031474 48209 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, indeed < 1326031482 205260 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm guessing there's a way to specify that fd 3 is, then. < 1326031482 711150 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I just meant how it is done on *nix < 1326031492 260688 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: otherwise you're at the mercy of the OS. < 1326031494 126807 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: What? < 1326031501 995146 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is what? < 1326031503 770623 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1326031504 88642 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: POSIX includes fileno(), so there sort-of has to be some correspondence between FILE*s and file descriptors. < 1326031515 835819 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: The program can just < 1326031518 135818 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :write(3, ..., ...); < 1326031525 222318 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, indeed, I assumed he meant for non-*nix < 1326031527 837875 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: The shell opens fd 3. < 1326031529 427257 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*creates < 1326031531 971200 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :By duping 1 onto it. < 1326031555 131156 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes; this was an answer to the "Does POSIX actually specify that stdio must be implemented as a wrapper around fd stuff" thing, not the "conforming C" thing. < 1326031556 559056 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yes, but is the fd specified to refer to the same file? :p < 1326031568 554450 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The fileno() function shall return the integer file descriptor associated with the stream pointed to by stream." < 1326031571 368504 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it always does that? or is that a result of the 3>&1 bit? < 1326031580 739940 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: That's because you told it you want an fd 3 going somewhere. < 1326031584 3618 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The standard fds are just 0, 1, 2. < 1326031585 633237 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : or C. <-- oh, I assumed you were familiar with C when I tried to describe the concept above. < 1326031591 849904 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: You can't allocate fd 3 without pointing it somewhere. < 1326031597 263706 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ah < 1326031598 372765 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. another fd or a file or a socket or whatever. < 1326031613 846122 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so a regular open call can't assign fd 3 to something? < 1326031642 421945 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not if it's already open. < 1326031655 657824 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: open(2) chooses which FD to give you. < 1326031666 930056 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: If you want it somewhere else, you need to dup2(2) it. < 1326031667 762560 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, I don't think you can specify which fd you want open to use, but you could open and then move it with dup2 and then close the original one opened < 1326031677 439765 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*dup2(3), apparently. < 1326031679 182821 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I believe that is dup2(3) < 1326031681 561676 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :snap < 1326031682 354204 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, no. < 1326031684 790492 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dup2(2). < 1326031693 27577 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least "man 2 dup2" produces my glibc man page. < 1326031699 133244 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, man 3p dup2 too < 1326031700 241990 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :man 3 dup2 produces the POSIX manpage. < 1326031703 16055 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1326031703 916404 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :In 3P. < 1326031724 130801 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I often wondered what the point of the 2/3 separation was < 1326031751 848734 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :right I'm asking... if you don't specifically assign 3, and the OS assigned a random file to fd 3, then.... 3>&1 would then do possibly weird unpredictable things, right? < 1326031754 304966 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 is system calls, 3 is libc functions? < 1326031772 521099 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: If you do 3>&1, 3 is open by the time your program starts. < 1326031780 504610 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Therefore it won't be used by any files you open in the program. < 1326031786 247374 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, yes but there are some system calls that are also specified by either POSIX or C as libc functions. Shouldn't there be a man page in each then < 1326031789 379574 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right it's dup'd from fd 1 < 1326031799 47446 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Yes, although the system call man pages come from glibc, and document the glibc wrappers around them too. < 1326031801 469074 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or fd 0 possibly? < 1326031809 785533 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, indeed < 1326031823 355352 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Presumably the point is taht you can look in section 2 to find all the system primitives. < 1326031825 455418 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you say 3>&1, it's fd 1 which it dups into 3. That's what the "&1" part means. < 1326031825 613549 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*that < 1326031830 18163 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Back when people actually cared about sections. < 1326031835 12611 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: for dup3 I do have two manpages < 1326031838 620620 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :|dup2 < 1326031842 701604 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :*dup2 < 1326031844 608378 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I know the basics of C programming but that's the extent of it. I'm not too familiar with all the details. < 1326031848 825751 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nowadays sections are just to disambiguate program/libc/system-doc. :p < 1326031850 479289 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, well one is the 3p copied-from-POSIX one < 1326031852 486945 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least for me < 1326031883 742891 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: aaaah I see. < 1326031898 862949 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You can "specify" that open(2) uses fd n by doing "close(n); for (i = 0; i < n; i++) dup2(someotherfd, i); open(...);" (assuming here that someotherfd != n, and none of the calls fail). < 1326031916 177442 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so we could basically drop everything except 1,3,3p,5 and 7? < 1326031920 303882 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :for some reason I thought things like 2>&1 reassigned fd 1 to 2, not the other way around. < 1326031928 716025 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it isn't like section 8 for example is very well defined < 1326031953 522438 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm I guess section 4 is useful too but I can't ever remember using that < 1326031956 102062 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Were I designing man today, I would drop the numeric sections. < 1326031961 243145 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm looking at man man atm) < 1326031964 34321 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"man coreutils/ls", "man libc/wtf". < 1326031972 80104 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"man foo" would just do */foo and prompt if it's ambiguous. < 1326031972 436319 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes < 1326031982 223687 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION knows nothing about sections < 1326031984 863388 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is indeed a lot more sensible < 1326031989 26396 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, try man man < 1326031990 611219 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact sections seems like a terrible way to organize namespaces of things. < 1326031995 936844 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perl and Tcl documentation coming up when I use man is really annoying, so proper segregation is needed rather than silly numeric sections. < 1326032006 668892 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Well, it does that if that's the way you want to think of it. I mean, it makes fd 2 point to the same thing fd 1 points to. < 1326032007 144426 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I've seen them, but haven't taken the time to commit numbers to sections in memory. < 1326032007 300860 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: It originates because man pages were originally a printed manual. < 1326032012 544150 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then they invented On-Line help. < 1326032012 700649 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you can edit /etc/man.conf to set search order < 1326032020 270809 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, or /etc/mandb.conf on some systems < 1326032022 371656 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It doesn't bother me that much. :p < 1326032033 636108 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even manpath.config on ubuntu < 1326032033 953993 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: But I'd call 7 "linux". < 1326032037 205657 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And 2 "syscall". < 1326032049 993624 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably syscall/foo would just symlink to libc/foo. < 1326032053 228919 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I'd call 2 "glibc-mostly" < 1326032064 393368 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are there 2 manpages not from glibc? < 1326032068 44781 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I've seen some bare-bones ones. < 1326032093 290834 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I seen a few from glibc saying that glibc doesn't provide a wrapper for it < 1326032101 720954 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe not from glibc hm < 1326032110 24544 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ioctl_list(2) is probably not from glibc. < 1326032112 919896 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, man futex for example < 1326032146 265305 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw my manpath.config contains SECTION 1 n l 8 3 2 3posix 3pm 3perl 5 4 9 6 7 < 1326032162 538829 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe I moved some stuff around. Might have been on a different system < 1326032166 528981 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well < 1326032168 231920 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :COLOPHON < 1326032168 549741 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : This page is part of release 3.35 of the Linux man-pages project. A < 1326032168 706038 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : description of the project, and information about reporting bugs, can be < 1326032168 706225 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : found at http://man7.org/linux/man-pages/. < 1326032175 843481 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so not glibc indeed < 1326032182 895842 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: That's the case for all glibc manpages, though. < 1326032190 590794 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just that they describe glibc functions. < 1326032198 920899 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So they're glibc man pages. < 1326032201 299983 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1326032210 575198 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1326032215 95920 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The funny thing is that a third party writes the documentation for glibc... < 1326032216 713876 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 , Skype: patashu0 . < 1326032221 694885 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Must be great fun keeping it in sync. < 1326032226 315291 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1326032226 631996 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least libc's API doesn't change much. < 1326032240 30947 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Linux man-pages project < 1326032240 348552 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Linux man-pages project documents the Linux kernel and C library interfaces that are employed by user programs. It provides manual pages in the following sections: < 1326032240 504917 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :2: System calls, documenting the system calls provided by the Linux kernel. < 1326032240 505092 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :3: Library functions, documenting the functions provided by the standard C library (with particular focus on glibc, the GNU C library). < 1326032240 661266 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :4: Devices, which documents details of various devices, most of which reside in /dev. < 1326032242 529510 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :5: Files, which describes various file formats, and includes proc(5), which documents the /proc file system. < 1326032245 498878 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :7: Overviews, conventions, and miscellaneous. < 1326032247 600991 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Note that many of the man pages on a Linux system, especially those in sections other than 2 and 3, come from other packages.) < 1326032263 293387 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1326032294 602481 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it must be annoying when a new C or POSIX version is released and gets supported in glibc < 1326032309 742710 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ubuntu has "manpages-dev" which includes sections 2 and 3 from that project, but also "glibc-doc" which installs at least some missing pthreads manpages, presumably generated from some glibc documentation. < 1326032334 874076 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: That's like 3 functions at the rate those two pieces of crap move. < 1326032336 778032 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :POSIX is updated more frequently than C too and it is larger. < 1326032341 530412 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does glibc even bother to track POSIX these days? < 1326032353 887483 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, or the other way around you mean? ;P < 1326032357 535588 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What did POSIX 2008 even add, anyway? < 1326032361 540752 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's unlikely that a new standard gets surprise-dropped and then surprise-implemented in one single chunk by libc < 1326032383 318118 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, mostly stuff from glibc iirc. Some stuff from other libcs too < 1326032386 14793 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: They should stop publishing drafts and annoucning things and whatnot. < 1326032388 797628 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would be much more fun. < 1326032397 503227 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The GNU C library implements all of the functions specified in ISO/IEC 9945-1:1996, the POSIX System Application Program Interface, commonly referred to as POSIX.1." <- current glibc manual. < 1326032398 455659 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I believe it was like 20-30 new functions though < 1326032402 35847 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :C99 -> twelve years pass -> "Surprise, motherfuckers! Here's C11!" < 1326032410 53764 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1326032433 899440 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and MSVC is still on C89 < 1326032439 607646 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Also while we were at it, we made a NetHack 4 too." < 1326032441 364048 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :MSVC is also still in C89. < 1326032444 664652 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is like over 20 years old < 1326032446 608765 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er. < 1326032448 34211 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*89 < 1326032452 991517 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :KINDA RUINED MY JOKE THERE, C. < 1326032463 830278 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1326032467 841779 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: In fact, it's over 22.9 years old. < 1326032471 887428 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :MSVC doesn't do any of the added stuff in C90? < 1326032476 363648 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, right < 1326032480 596006 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, if it was published in January. < 1326032483 527745 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which it probably wasn't. < 1326032484 161995 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc, commas at the end of enums was added in C90 < 1326032492 370783 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, err maybe < 1326032496 180753 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: But... but gcc says they're the same! < 1326032504 429839 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :GUYS DO YOU REMEMBER THAT TIME WE FOUND A PRINTED COPY OF C94 < 1326032511 478955 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, I'm surprised they differ though < 1326032516 586385 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, we did? < 1326032523 846714 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :C94, wth did that contain < 1326032524 2858 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C_(programming_language) doesn't even mention C94. < 1326032524 479557 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :C94? < 1326032526 464388 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know it existed < 1326032532 656971 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't know what was new < 1326032534 242990 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I think it was never officially standardised, or something? < 1326032542 828649 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1326032544 412398 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it was a printed copy or PDF for like 30 quid. < 1326032549 632290 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1326032550 899889 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I totally regret not buying it. < 1326032552 50195 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Souvenir. < 1326032560 795870 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://clc-wiki.net/wiki/C89 "Purchase Amendment 1 (upgrades the Standard to C94 aka C95) as an ISO publication from SAI Global or --" < 1326032577 873826 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, so C90 vs C89 has only the changes that ISO did while giving the ANSI standard an ISO number < 1326032589 537053 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I'm disappointed C99 didn't get sometimes referred to as C100. < 1326032613 464030 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :C00 the mysterious < 1326032623 31968 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ANSI could've released a C100 that was essentially ISO C99 except with a different name. For symmetry. < 1326032630 131605 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, if C keeps going they are going to have to time it to unused years in future centuries < 1326032642 990556 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that only works for 100 versions < 1326032648 983206 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :after that they are screwed < 1326032656 611094 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: This is why you use Befunge numbering(tm). < 1326032664 412373 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes < 1326032666 36496 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :AKA 19100 numbering. < 1326032700 879757 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :will C have died off by then < 1326032712 255968 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy, hopefully yes, probably not < 1326032726 737525 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I still think that timing releases is a far funnier solution :P < 1326032727 888265 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's already a bit confusing at the point when the chronological order goes C90 C99 C11 C34 C82 C97 C05 C22 C76 after the 2176 version is out. < 1326032747 846480 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well yes < 1326032795 341094 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I would think there will be a C25 or so rather than C34 < 1326032810 95788 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1326032812 712128 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, looks like C has/had a limit of 15 nested levels of compound statements < 1326032826 806887 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, heh? < 1326032830 896749 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo < 1326032831 214965 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably it's just saying that compiler must support at least 15 levels, but anyway < 1326032844 261037 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :All of the limits are just "at least this" guarantees. < 1326032845 921836 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe future C will use fruits instead of numbers < 1326032852 248210 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also they've written in a really weird way. < 1326032859 652223 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, are they? < 1326032864 229133 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: yes, then you'll need to support at least banana nested levels < 1326032886 291758 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://stackoverflow.com/questions/8520673/installing-postgresql-on-qnx-neutrino < 1326032889 842822 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Best. Question. Ever. < 1326032909 62323 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION realises that some people actually use QNX. < 1326032921 587297 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION prefers to pretend they're just fucking around. < 1326032921 904962 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: "The implementation shall be able to translate and execute at least one program that contains at least one instance of every one of the following limits: [list of limits, like 127 nesting levels of blocks, 63 nesting levels of conditional inclusion, and so on]" < 1326032932 609063 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never quite "gotten" that "at least one program" rule. < 1326032939 238586 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, is it better or worse than people using vxworks? < 1326032954 197054 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, heh < 1326032985 152251 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, so that means that in that one program you can possibly only use up to 15 nesting levels in one place in the program? < 1326032987 372440 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or what < 1326033004 293380 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: Goodbye < 1326033043 477772 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: If I read it right, it's enough if the compiler translates, say "int ************a; [instances of all other limits];" but not "int ************b; [instances of all other limits];". < 1326033057 101198 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it did translate at least one program that contained at least one instance of every one of the limits. < 1326033065 788895 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well there is that too < 1326033072 540783 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(12 pointer declarators is one of the limits.) < 1326033083 126509 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, but it doesn't even have to support int ************a; int ************b; in the same program < 1326033087 45322 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is just silly < 1326033091 972565 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal: "The implementation shall be able to translate and execute at least one program that contains at least one instance of every one of the following limits: [list of limits, like 127 nesting levels of blocks, 63 nesting levels of conditional inclusion, and so on]" < 1326033097 833035 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :At *least* one? < 1326033106 896492 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there only one such conforming C program? < 1326033108 5477 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if it's any sillier than just not supporting int ************b at all. < 1326033116 896252 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that is what we are discussing < 1326033125 982278 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, is that from C99 or C11? < 1326033126 138520 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It's also implementation-dependant which one it is. < 1326033134 497491 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: C99, but IIRC it's unchanged in C11. < 1326033135 331745 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems like the standard already obligates the implementation to translate all conforming programs. < 1326033143 586978 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So the limits are arguably null. < 1326033179 779723 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was the thing in perl you can use to run commands with options, but without opening up a whle shell? < 1326033191 207051 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah but afaik the definition of a conforming program is one that can be handled by such a conforming implementation < 1326033200 37826 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :was it the piped open? < 1326033201 704877 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(given the limit description) < 1326033249 22703 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: IIRC, system and the piped open have the same behaviour; if you give them a list, it's executed directly without a shell; if you give them a string with spaces in it, a shell is involved. < 1326033256 49259 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, is that like pipe(), fork(), dup2() and exec() in C? If so, then yes < 1326033272 971426 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Just that 'system' of course doesn't capture any output, while a pipe-open does.) < 1326033277 78109 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ah okay good. < 1326033278 702837 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well execl or whatever) < 1326033279 654331 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I... somewhat doubt it. < 1326033289 24121 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That means "conforming implementation" is circular. < 1326033331 704581 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no I mean that conforming implementation is defined by those limits (and various other things, like the grammar), and a conforming program is simply one that can be run by such an implementation < 1326033332 22416 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If there is only one scalar argument, the argument is checked for shell metacharacters, and if there are any, the entire argument is passed to the system's command shell for parsing (this is "/bin/sh -c" on Unix platforms, but varies on other platforms). If there are no shell metacharacters in the argument, it is split into words and passed directly to "execvp", which is more efficient." < 1326033354 699707 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, so it was about metacharacters, not spaces, and it does space-splitting by itself. Well, anyway. < 1326033376 674431 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Providing a list will never execute a shell. < 1326033393 62584 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so wait the list form can still create a shell? < 1326033401 639864 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1326033403 677346 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If there is more than one argument in LIST, or if LIST is an array with more than one value, starts the program given by the first element of the list with arguments given by the rest of the list." < 1326033404 350708 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I... don't think that makes much sense. < 1326033404 508875 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : Providing a list will never execute a shell. < 1326033404 826755 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : so wait the list form can still create a shell? < 1326033405 734101 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1326033415 401320 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1326033419 978584 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1326033430 338521 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, of course not < 1326033438 52865 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but then, nor does gets()! < 1326033442 813594 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: That's gone now. < 1326033446 441522 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :They replaced it with a safe version. < 1326033451 358703 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes but only in C11 < 1326033456 13599 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's hideously unfair; gets was awesome. < 1326033456 571597 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is absurdly long < 1326033467 255193 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, can we have one easy-to-use, ridiculous function in C? < 1326033469 119022 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just one? < 1326033476 459247 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :One function to remind you the language you're using is utterly terrible. < 1326033519 845798 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A conforming program is one that is acceptable to a conforming implementation. A conforming -- implementation shall accept any strictly conforming program. A strictly conforming program shall use only those features of the language and library specified in this International Standard -- and shall not exceed any minimum implementation limit." < 1326033531 135772 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: oh but system doesn't give me the stdout < 1326033541 307139 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have to use open for that. < 1326033542 418124 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think. < 1326033568 879562 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, wow < 1326033575 87742 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Well, right, but the '|-' and '-|' opens have the same behaviour. If I recall correctly. < 1326033580 299665 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: That's amazing. < 1326033587 218139 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: What... what does that even end up meaning. < 1326033608 142111 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Hmm. < 1326033615 729524 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: That means that you can write a C compiler that accepts any string of bytse. < 1326033616 880866 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :bytes < 1326033623 722498 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it means it is a C standard < 1326033630 805833 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: As long as it correctly compiles every strictly conforming program, every string of bytes becomes a conforming C program. < 1326033639 647390 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone get on that? < 1326033665 786145 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, there is the minimum implementation limit thing too < 1326033682 838638 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, which is defined elsewhere by the spec (the "at least one" bit) < 1326033698 625515 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's just limiting the strictly conforming programs set further. < 1326033704 542347 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What fizzie said. < 1326033706 240901 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes < 1326033722 67445 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could troll comp.lang.c with this. < 1326033722 826127 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would think you can, as an extension, accept any string and do whatever you want with the ones that are not strictly conforming. < 1326033730 609956 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, is that still alive? < 1326033730 768242 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I have a conforming C program that isn't working: int main(;;)qw;4{};/;{" < 1326033746 599321 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Comp.lang.c people quite often remember to put that "strictly" in, from what I've seen. < 1326033752 791913 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Do Usenet groups ever "die"? < 1326033787 902662 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well I haven't seen any message on alt.lang.intercal for almost a year by now < 1326033793 246979 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least half a year < 1326033800 327463 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Dude... < 1326033804 334872 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's INTERCAL. < 1326033809 457811 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I see. < 1326033814 623804 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: alt.lang.intercal always goes that slowly. < 1326033824 379274 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, fair enough < 1326033829 368134 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It at least gets a post every April. < 1326033831 128072 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a sad group < 1326033836 213376 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well okay < 1326033968 599669 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: is there a way to get stderr with the list form of piped open? < 1326033997 79093 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: IPC::Open3 might help. < 1326034160 642370 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what if you want to deal with more than 3 fds < 1326034182 673387 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(what if you want to redirect any fd the program opens to go through your own program?) < 1326034185 132723 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh crap, capital c's all over the screen < 1326034200 182478 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I think there's a module for more general piping, but most programs don't expect to have more than 0, 1 and 2 open at start. < 1326034211 443515 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: For "opens during the execution", I don't see how you can redirect those at all. < 1326034228 54487 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it is obviously easy to do so. Just use ptrace < 1326034236 380710 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously nonportable, too. < 1326034241 158425 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, or LD_PRELOAD probably < 1326034248 94364 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Won't catch syscalls. < 1326034250 195677 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't say portable < 1326034260 317358 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well indeed, most programs don't use them directly < 1326034266 940952 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless they are statically linked < 1326034270 229468 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but ptrace would work < 1326034278 480957 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: FSVO all, screen. < 1326034295 284409 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : fizzie, it is obviously easy to do so. Just use ptrace < 1326034307 86295 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think that works. < 1326034315 903207 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You still can't force the program to dup2 without fucking about with its memory. < 1326034318 945821 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i get scared when theres a language i could almost get away with coding in being discussed here < 1326034322 719778 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that is easy as in "conceptually easy" not "easy to implement" < 1326034339 162314 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway gdb manages to insert calls into a process if you write call foo < 1326034342 842644 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well, you could also write a kernel module or whatever. < 1326034346 758105 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, indeed < 1326034348 195302 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, so does weboflies. < 1326034353 626160 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone on clc has also pointed out, that the particular "one program" containing "at least one instance of every one of" all the limits doesn't need to be "strictly conforming", and can in fact include any kind of syntax or constraint violations that the implementation allows as an extension, which makes the started translation limits slightly meaningless. You could limit block nesting to 1 for all strictly conforming programs, and when someone complai < 1326034353 783990 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ned, just be all "well so sad, your program wasn't the one program". < 1326034354 933492 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your suggestions are pretty stupid though. < 1326034359 467280 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, indeed < 1326034365 840191 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: :D < 1326034377 205377 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Excellent use of bold. < 1326034404 339074 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, :D < 1326034457 727435 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Actually... < 1326034464 593909 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: "A conforming -- implementation shall accept any strictly conforming program. A strictly conforming program shall use only those features of the language and library specified in this International Standard -- and shall not exceed any minimum implementation limit." < 1326034488 431346 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: So since implementations are required to accept any strictly conforming program, and a strictly conforming program can go up to the limits... < 1326034522 15259 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose it's arguable whether "shall not exceed any minimum implementation limit" means any of the separately stated limits, or whether the "one program" clause is in fact the "limit" that could be exceeded. < 1326034527 963031 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no it says they shouldn't exceed said limits. It doesn't say they aren't allowed to use less? < 1326034565 993723 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: What? < 1326034573 407016 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm, nvm < 1326034592 912438 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The intent is anyhow reasonably clear, I've just wondered more than once about the strange-sounding "at least one program" clause. I'm sure there's some sort of a logic they've had when first drafting it. < 1326034594 660208 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :C sure is confusingly worded < 1326034635 340247 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: They might have just wanted to avoid a scary universal quantification. :p < 1326034665 268182 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Later < 1326034666 943208 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: They might have worded it weirdly to allow the implementation to apply stricter limits to conforming-but-not-strictly programs for whatever reasons? < 1326034668 846089 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*reason? < 1326034707 739209 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who *are* the C committee, anyway? Do they even have any writers of compilers that people actually use on there? < 1326034718 298780 :atrapado!~rdrp@95.169.240.36 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326034736 494630 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`words --canadian 9001 < 1326034744 751575 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :HackEgo: hi < 1326034746 533335 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :moniz ber bhoodcuting ceric ker rhization defore cunactyl cari underfee soutwaisec upgia trentation teneopeir nonper ramosometting comper nailty unblaco hydrati acci searabilic contment pyosing dric boarding lured reade bebloo rechny canic virasephosto subselte phenchar jacque simpresom comently posively noda wan tate cyan trian shagboard friskilli terimescoe posard spaapelblar camsie trallycephoto unfrable ophalpathone < 1326034749 613358 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, this was probably worded like that back in 1989 or so < 1326034774 911105 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and no one bothered to change it < 1326034791 425533 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so hm probably of compilers used back then? < 1326034826 194846 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I was asking in general. < 1326034840 220202 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :good question < 1326034965 522134 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the JTC1/SC22/WG14 working group; I'm not sure if their member list is anywhere; the wiki and the "WG internal information" are all password-protected and only for members. < 1326034973 207026 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :comp.std.c has some overlap, though. < 1326034986 621021 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that explains a lot < 1326034998 675068 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I don't like the idea of a public international standards committee nobody knows the membership of. < 1326035020 559980 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I'm sure it's somewhere, just can't find it right now. < 1326035025 87886 :Zuu!zuu@unaffiliated/zuu QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1326035043 460653 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There have been programmers on it at some point, at least. < 1326035045 626191 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has never looked at comp.std.c. Is it like comp.lang.c but /exclusively/ for pedantry? < 1326035104 275643 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's for speaking about the standard itself; "yes, yes, but I think the what the standard should do instead is *this*" sort of comments from comp.lang.c are sometimes referred to there. < 1326035109 407652 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl $, = ' '; print "hi"; print "hello"; < 1326035110 42336 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :hihello < 1326035114 47395 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl $, = ' '; print "hi",; print "hello"; < 1326035114 599405 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :hihello < 1326035116 812459 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :L( < 1326035117 289368 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess theoretically speaking you could speak there if you want to influence the standard. < 1326035126 96421 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It probably won't do anything, but that's what it's for. < 1326035146 960341 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: http://groups.google.com/group/comp.std.c/browse_thread/thread/d0fd9bfc89647b4a < 1326035153 597464 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Standard lawyers! THESE ARE MY PEOPLE. < 1326035341 432854 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It was established in the comp.lang.c discussion (which was too long to reproduce here) that int and long are not the same type." < 1326035350 480260 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`fetch http://sprunge.us/SERK < 1326035353 174722 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2012-01-08 15:09:12 URL:http://sprunge.us/SERK [4539] -> "SERK" [1] < 1326035367 98827 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :reminds me of the ents determining after a few days that the hobbits are probably not orcs < 1326035369 162018 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run mv SERK bin/words.pl; chmod +x bin/words.pl < 1326035372 376789 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1326035379 241512 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`words --help < 1326035383 48686 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Usage: words [-dhNo] [DATASETS...] [NUMBER_OF_WORDS] \ \ valid datasets: --eng-1M --eng-all --eng-fiction --eng-gb --eng-us --french --german --hebrew --russian --spanish --irish --german-medical --bulgarian --catalan --swedish --brazilian --canadian-english-insane --manx --italian --ogerman --portuguese --polish --gaelic --finnish --norwegian \ default: --eng-1M \ \ options: \ -h, --help this help text < 1326035390 21078 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no bad < 1326035390 973290 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls < 1326035393 903865 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mineso \ X.pm \ Y.pm \ bin \ canary \ karma \ lib \ main \ min.sh \ paste \ quotes \ share \ typetest.hs \ wisdom < 1326035404 84209 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run rm X.pm Y.pm < 1326035406 939024 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1326035419 278910 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1326035425 507130 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run mv bin/words.pl bin/words < 1326035428 221151 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1326035433 27651 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`words 50 < 1326035436 680398 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Optional module Math::Random::MT::Perl not found. \ can't open Data/Eng1M: No such file or directory at /hackenv/bin/words line 104 < 1326035444 785835 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run rm Mineso typetest.sh main.sh < 1326035447 724136 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :rm: cannot remove `Mineso': Is a directory \ rm: cannot remove `typetest.sh': No such file or directory \ rm: cannot remove `main.sh': No such file or directory < 1326035462 15518 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run rm -r Mineso min.sh typetest.sh < 1326035465 159571 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run rm -r Mineso min.sh typetest.hs < 1326035465 316412 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :rm: cannot remove `typetest.sh': No such file or directory < 1326035466 429456 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCK!!! < 1326035468 968754 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1326035472 933446 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls < 1326035476 883899 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin \ canary \ karma \ lib \ main \ paste \ quotes \ share \ wisdom < 1326035524 411024 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run perl -pi -e 's#Data#share/WordData#' bin/words < 1326035527 897853 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1326035530 993246 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`words < 1326035534 984770 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Optional module Math::Random::MT::Perl not found. \ can't open share/WordData/Eng1M: No such file or directory at /hackenv/bin/words line 104 < 1326035557 107004 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls share < 1326035560 199842 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :WordData \ awesome \ units.dat < 1326035576 807158 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls share/WordData < 1326035579 505852 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brazilian \ Bulgarian \ CanadianEnglishInsane \ Catalan \ Eng1M \ EngAll \ EngFiction \ EngGb \ EngUs \ Finnish \ French \ Gaelic \ German \ GermanMedical \ Hebrew \ Irish \ Italian \ Manx \ Norwegian \ Ogerman \ Polish \ Portuguese \ Russian \ Spanish \ Swedish < 1326035585 521989 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_> < 1326035588 324647 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hackgeo shoiuld totally coloured output < 1326035608 422362 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1326035621 272034 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is hackgeo Sgeo's cousin? < 1326035623 754859 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls --colour=yes < 1326035624 231897 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am great confused < 1326035626 909911 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ls: unrecognized option '--colour=yes' \ Try `ls --help' for more information. < 1326035631 173438 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh < 1326035637 284863 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`words < 1326035640 830792 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Optional module Math::Random::MT::Perl not found. \ can't open share/WordData/Eng1M: No such file or directory at /hackenv/bin/words line 104 < 1326035644 887266 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls --color=yes < 1326035647 434604 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​.[0m.[01;34mbin.[0m \ canary \ karma \ .[01;34mlib.[0m \ .[01;32mmain.[0m \ .[01;34mpaste.[0m \ quotes \ .[01;34mshare.[0m \ .[01;34mwisdom.[0m < 1326035649 904079 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :aww < 1326035652 163632 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I'm noticing a distinct lack of Math::Random::MT::Perl < 1326035668 939942 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Don't install it. < 1326035689 89334 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh.. < 1326035701 541444 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Is hackgeo Sgeo's cousin? < 1326035701 858643 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1326035709 529355 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : hackgeo shoiuld totally coloured output < 1326035709 870315 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, typo < 1326035743 599295 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run perl -pi -e 's#^.*chdir.*$##' bin/words < 1326035746 533536 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1326035753 163827 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I whshhould typo more ofrten maybe this will happen agaion < 1326035761 712388 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[ < 1326035762 28897 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[...] < 1326035762 187366 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> As far as I know, variables of type "size_t" are guaranteed to be of < 1326035762 343488 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> sufficient precision to represent the size of any object. < 1326035762 343675 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[...] < 1326035762 506044 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The standard doesn't state that explicitly, and I argue that it < 1326035762 980998 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : : parse error on input `,' < 1326035763 139905 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : can't find file: L.hs < 1326035764 568451 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't imply it. < 1326035766 474333 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It says that the sizeof operator yields a result of type size_t. < 1326035768 536508 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also says that the "*" operator applied to two operands of type < 1326035770 495120 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :int yields a result of type int; that doesn't imply that the result < 1326035772 597091 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :will always fit in an int. I suggest that the sizeof operator can < 1326035774 552845 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :overflow, and if it does, the behavior is undefined. < 1326035776 535123 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :]] < 1326035778 558704 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: This is beautiful. < 1326035780 393880 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: hi < 1326035785 456775 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hi < 1326035789 99385 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run perl -pi -e 's#^.*\bwarn\b$##' bin/words < 1326035792 194558 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1326035793 27522 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`words < 1326035797 775283 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Optional module Math::Random::MT::Perl not found. \ wiektripuur < 1326035816 849798 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run perl -pi -e 's#^.*\bwarn\b.*$##' bin/words < 1326035820 409648 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1326035821 395020 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`words < 1326035826 950567 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :sulf < 1326035829 527305 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`words --help < 1326035833 142775 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Usage: words [-dhNo] [DATASETS...] [NUMBER_OF_WORDS] \ \ options: \ -l, --list list valid datasets \ -d, --debug debugging output \ -N, --dont-normalize don't normalize frequencies when combining \ multiple Markov models; this has the effect \ of making larger datasets more influential \ -o, --target-offset change the target length < 1326035853 932452 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`words --list < 1326035857 548162 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :valid datasets: --eng-1M --eng-all --eng-fiction --eng-gb --eng-us --french --german --hebrew --russian --spanish --irish --german-medical --bulgarian --catalan --swedish --brazilian --canadian-english-insane --manx --italian --ogerman --portuguese --polish --gaelic --finnish --norwegian \ default: --eng-1M < 1326035901 729611 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`words 900 -o 289347898974892734238947923742389423 < 1326035907 210941 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Argument "900 -o 289347898974892734238947923742389423" isn't numeric in int at /hackenv/bin/words line 146. \ cog maki ashed flam deming hun guaj cili ponste alledit shapetick titum adiompl colonia hymanstastre occifield rib kuk ivell cogn wadhyal sine chillul nonidi mplaim < 1326035915 847320 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I forgot the thing. < 1326035936 116780 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...what was the thing again. < 1326035941 137418 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes < 1326036006 518289 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sizeof overflow sounds < 1326036009 134945 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :beautiefulye < 1326036109 471113 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: interesting < 1326036112 865220 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: you're overdoing the typos a little :P < 1326036123 775881 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run perl -pi -e 's#GetOptions#@ARGV = split /\s+/, \$ARGV[0] if \@ARGV == 1;$&#' bin/words < 1326036127 144011 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1326036127 997533 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have trouble helping it < 1326036130 455998 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Could I convince you to op a single-purpose bot? < 1326036133 334212 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`words --eng-all 9001 < 1326036137 128488 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :syntax error at /hackenv/bin/words line 111, near "=" \ Execution of /hackenv/bin/words aborted due to compilation errors. < 1326036141 46541 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh oh < 1326036155 399197 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :turns out perl is not a valid substitute for a text editor. < 1326036195 732277 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, just edit it locally and `fetch a new one? < 1326036213 495238 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :too easy. < 1326036242 146154 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: You're just inferior. < 1326036242 779875 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`fetch http://sprunge.us/KHIN < 1326036245 596552 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2012-01-08 15:24:05 URL:http://sprunge.us/KHIN [4599] -> "KHIN" [1] < 1326036245 913288 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I fixed scripts with sed all the time. < 1326036270 916670 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run chmod +x KHIN; mv KHIN bin/words < 1326036274 483892 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1326036275 435024 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`words --eng-all 5000000 < 1326036278 866212 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't open share/WordData/EngAll: No such file or directory at /hackenv/bin/words line 104 < 1326036290 383104 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, wow, sizeof overflowing < 1326036297 821831 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that is so absurd < 1326036302 266972 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`fetch http://sprunge.us/VHhP < 1326036304 333884 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2012-01-08 15:25:03 URL:http://sprunge.us/VHhP [4600] -> "VHhP" [1] < 1326036317 139311 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run chmod +x VHhP; mv VHhP bin/words < 1326036320 363846 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1326036322 787497 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`words --eng-all 5000000 < 1326036326 361423 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :more like they forgot to put in the standard the bit about size_t always being big enough < 1326036329 476844 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :cartzwick refd cons quenfeasodcr lighlymb signing prol busina ccote oscoplai phistorialpa hegle out presen golo chowski oand gresset sageopak dpoudle metnbruku remati nei tist shropsych < 1326036337 727332 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: HMPH < 1326036344 821652 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and/or all objects and types being small enough) < 1326036366 257167 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shropsych < 1326036372 358152 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm does sizeof overflowing allow infinite memory? And does that make C TC then? < 1326036388 93437 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I doubt it; \infty doesn't "overflow" to anything. < 1326036407 815984 :atrapado!~rdrp@95.169.240.36 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone wants to implement an interpreter for my language? < 1326036415 27127 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it a good language < 1326036417 404021 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, if size_t doesn't have to be unsigned, I think it could be arbitrary-precision < 1326036429 112432 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :atrapado: Wait, aren't you one of those people who were in here years ago? < 1326036436 669845 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm true < 1326036438 996383 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :or if sizeof(x) = 1 for all x < 1326036449 26011 :atrapado!~rdrp@95.169.240.36 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, i was < 1326036451 674445 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: no, CHAR_BIT is required of freestanding implementations < 1326036465 146585 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :atrapado, which language? < 1326036469 590060 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :atrapado: Naww, `pastelogs says 2007, I meant the REAL old days. But hi :P < 1326036481 349745 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION remembers your name for some reason. < 1326036491 83562 :atrapado!~rdrp@95.169.240.36 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i define a minimal turing complete language < 1326036493 344242 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hmm, but didn't we conclude that this only affected unsigned types? < 1326036494 454310 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : atrapado: Naww, `pastelogs says 2007, I meant the REAL old days. But hi :P <-- what? 2005? < 1326036504 693641 :atrapado!~rdrp@95.169.240.36 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think tc < 1326036508 580726 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: 2002-2004. < 1326036512 231890 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah < 1326036512 430446 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :minimal? < 1326036532 38341 :atrapado!~rdrp@95.169.240.36 PRIVMSG #esoteric :only 3 or 4 elements < 1326036542 738225 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: I don't think so, I think we just didn't realise at the time. unsigned was another thing; sizeof still has to return the size. Although, hmm. < 1326036549 807567 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm bad at making my programs simultaneously have data files and also being current-directory agnostic. < 1326036555 637227 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: I think we waxed philosophical about what sizeof's value actually meant. < 1326036565 316409 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't recall. < 1326036577 753849 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, huh? < 1326036605 953540 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, if you don't mind portability look at /proc/self/exe < 1326036629 402121 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, in Perl I use $0 < 1326036631 376084 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, if you mind portability I suggest you have a configure script or such that hardcode the target paths into the program < 1326036633 319485 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Have you heard of argv[0]. < 1326036642 241548 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think unsigned types need to wrap at 2^n, where n is possible related to sizeof and CHAR_BIT < 1326036643 827711 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, argv[0] has the issue that it might be anything < 1326036647 798228 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, at least in C < 1326036650 533824 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that signed types had no lower limit except that the max. *positive* value must be smaller than the max value of the corresponding unsigned type < 1326036651 10217 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, not sure about perl < 1326036658 139433 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: /proc/self/exe will also point to `which perl`, duh. < 1326036662 902768 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm true < 1326036673 193348 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :but... negative sizeof, hmm < 1326036682 401164 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Right, but by having sizeof return something you're still declaring that it fits into that many chars. < 1326036698 45295 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: i.e. you can put it in a char array of that size and convert it back. < 1326036715 385693 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: And by defining CHAR_BIT you're declaring that that many bools can uniquely identify a character. < 1326036725 314703 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So there's no real way around it, AFAICT. < 1326036755 756788 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only argument there is what CHAR_BIT really means, IMO. < 1326036830 815725 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :and sizeof still has a (constant) maximum value, because everything else has, so that's no solution to sizeof overflow anyway < 1326036861 598103 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it possible to allow structs and arrays to have sizeof 1? < 1326036886 871359 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :char n[2] can't fit into a char unless char is countably infinite. < 1326036893 259848 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which it can't be, as we've established. < 1326036899 712057 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, no. < 1326036908 279337 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I always found it amusing that even though the C standard allows lots of weird deathstation 9000 style systems it doesn't allow a ternary one < 1326036939 948664 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu < 1326036963 49711 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well, that's just perverse. < 1326036967 823222 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: because of CHAR_BIT? < 1326036969 610873 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who the hell uses ternary? < 1326036971 753219 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Yse. < 1326036972 584629 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1326036979 412223 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, a few systems have used that < 1326036984 166296 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: What's the actual definition of CHAR_BIT? < 1326036985 633308 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It was a joke. < 1326036990 755237 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh < 1326037050 23909 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, the musl guy is on SO. < 1326037053 235268 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : fizzie: What's the actual definition of CHAR_BIT? <-- are you using fizzie as a search engine of the C standard? < 1326037102 961336 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes. < 1326037108 296307 :atrapado!~rdrp@95.169.240.36 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i will explain the language definion later, well 2 languages really < 1326037137 246772 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, he tends to be very good at such things < 1326037148 522940 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :atrapado, is it on the wiki? < 1326037153 279643 :atrapado!~rdrp@95.169.240.36 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1326037159 583494 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not? < 1326037177 546600 :atrapado!~rdrp@95.169.240.36 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is very simple < 1326037184 145392 :atrapado!~rdrp@95.169.240.36 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can explain here < 1326037200 508889 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that won't be as each to find for people in the future < 1326037203 521396 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lots of languages on the wiki are very simple < 1326037211 553271 :atrapado!~rdrp@95.169.240.36 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1326037232 438275 :atrapado!~rdrp@95.169.240.36 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i will consider the wiki < 1326037244 343701 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :atrapado, as long as it isn't yet another bf-clone (or bf-clone with minor variations) you should probably put it on the wiki < 1326037266 403376 :atrapado!~rdrp@95.169.240.36 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it is not a clone < 1326037294 783062 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :atrapado, did you manage to break SHA256, then? < 1326037301 611289 :atrapado!~rdrp@95.169.240.36 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1326037312 151128 :atrapado!~rdrp@95.169.240.36 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not even md5 < 1326037320 398855 :atrapado!~rdrp@95.169.240.36 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i developed a model < 1326037349 366618 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A model of what? < 1326037362 178404 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :MD5 was broken ages ago. < 1326037391 991692 :atrapado!~rdrp@95.169.240.36 PRIVMSG #esoteric :of md5 or other algorithm with logical and add operarions < 1326037450 551588 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :A 2009 attack by Tao Xie and Dengguo Feng breaks MD5 collision resistance in 220.96 time. This attack runs in a few seconds on a regular computer.[2] < 1326037450 747450 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yikes, I didn't know it was that bad < 1326037462 792222 :atrapado!~rdrp@95.169.240.36 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1326037605 449739 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that 2^20.96 time? < 1326037674 963871 :atrapado!~rdrp@95.169.240.66 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326037696 287970 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: "number of bits for smallest object that is not a bit-field". < 1326037718 217117 :atrapado!~rdrp@95.169.240.66 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, batery was low < 1326037820 472405 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: What does "number of bits" even mean? :/ < 1326037821 423759 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Yes. < 1326037920 527439 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :if we're lucky, we only need to care about "number of bits" as far as making the unsigned ints looking like n-bit numbers < 1326038623 438665 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: All values (discounting bitfields) "consist of n x CHAR_BIT bits, where n is the size of an object of that type, in bytes. The value may be copied into an object of type unsigned char [n]; the resulting set of bytes is called the /object representation/ of the value." < 1326038716 55860 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And "objects of type unsigned char shall be represented using a pure binary notation.49) ... 49) A positional representation for integers that uses the binary digits 0 and 1, in which the values represented by successive bits are additive, begin with 1, and are multiplied by successive itnegral powers of 2, except perhaps the bit with the highest position." < 1326038732 185637 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Typos mine.) < 1326038787 30187 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The 'n' for unsigned types is not related to sizeof, though, since (non-char) arithmetic types can have padding bits. < 1326038822 89364 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn, and objects need to be representable as a series of *unsigned* chars < 1326038843 574093 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Where the "n" was the [0 ... 2^n-1] value range for unsigned types.) < 1326038947 425942 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, *except perhaps the bit with the highest position.* - so the highest bit is allowed to be anything? < 1326038989 37260 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's just a footnote, and they are non-normative, IIRC. < 1326038998 744880 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just defining "pure binary" there. < 1326039035 267900 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :pff, "pure binary" could mean anything! < 1326039037 90634 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's another place which explicitly defines what the value bits mean in unsigned integer types. < 1326039081 483612 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If there are N value bits, each bit shall represent a different power of 2 between 1 and 2^(N-1), so that objects of that type shall be capable of representing values from 0 to 2^N - 1 using a pure binary representation." < 1326039157 228130 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`which log < 1326039160 122407 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/hackenv/bin/log < 1326039161 440974 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Signed integers are otherwise identical, except there is (in addition to padding and value bits) a single sign bit, which will either have the value -(2^M), the value -(2^M-1), or the meaning that the corresponding value with sign bit 0 is negated. < 1326039180 54411 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(In other words, two's-complement, one's-complement, or sign-magnitude.) < 1326039181 325147 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : pff, "pure binary" could mean anything! <-- it basically means that on a ternary machine the it could only encode one bit per... um... trit? < 1326039201 178415 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Tit". < 1326039211 106160 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe it is actually trit < 1326039225 454791 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Trit" is more common, sure. < 1326039248 953086 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: argh, so C mandates binary representations? :( < 1326039274 854881 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that new from C99 though? maybe C90 is better < 1326039279 95686 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, I complained about that earlier today < 1326039287 380703 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the exclusion of ternary) < 1326039295 912188 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :C90 isn't (IIRC) any better when it comes to unsigned integers. < 1326039302 73306 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Signed integers are allowed more latitude. < 1326039330 347442 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, anyway all modern systems uses two-complement for signed integers afaik < 1326039444 722606 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, it's all under the "as if" rule, so "physically" I'm sure you could run things on a ternary machine with, say, three bits packed into two trits -- or 9-bit quantities into 6-trit ones if that's natural for the machine -- and just make the bitwise operators work right. All objects have to be composed out of unsigned chars, though. < 1326039469 903974 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :9 is a perfectly suitable value for CHAR_BIT, after all. < 1326039494 445065 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, unless you want to be all POSIXy. < 1326039673 363559 :atrapado!~rdrp@95.169.240.66 PRIVMSG #esoteric :check SumaMoito in the wiki for the languages i mentioned < 1326039717 265323 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: but it does limit the range of signed integers to some fixed number of bits, which is the boring part < 1326039718 772059 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : The 'n' for unsigned types is not related to sizeof, though, since (non-char) arithmetic types can have padding bits. < 1326039720 839721 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Ah. < 1326039729 296239 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Didn't we conclude that nothing stopped you packing data into those padding bits? < 1326039771 146070 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Incidentally, I had to cite the as-if rule a day or two ago! < 1326039779 410288 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't realise people ever actually had to do that. < 1326039786 231803 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel like a real standards lawyer. < 1326039798 715907 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I suppose, though the data is not guaranteed to survive through operations, or get copied by assignment, and "bad" padding bit values are allowed to generate trap representations. < 1326039831 577735 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(E.g. one of the padding bits can be a hardware-mandated parity bit.) < 1326039865 648974 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Well, we don't care about portability guarantees. < 1326039892 827909 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: We just care that it is possible to write a strictly conforming C program that can implement infinite-tape BF on a hypothetical conforming C implementation. < 1326039987 845529 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Aside from that, garbage collection is just plain slow. You can find hundreds of academics who like to claim otherwise, but that won't change the reality. The performance issues of GC can be broken down into 3 main categories: < 1326039988 3248 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unpredictability < 1326039988 159199 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cache pollution < 1326039988 159368 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Time spent walking all memory" < 1326039992 240027 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I don't like musl any more. :( < 1326040006 481983 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Reference counting is clean and elegant" I double don't like it! < 1326040043 567962 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if only it were @ < 1326040046 665795 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well if you just keep calling malloc(n) :D < 1326040061 415737 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: No. < 1326040064 215354 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pointers have a defined size. < 1326040068 654324 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That size must be finite. < 1326040074 554407 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i see < 1326040140 905099 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well ain't that a bitch < 1326040173 476662 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: So, theoretically you could have an unsigned integer whose value is in the padding bits? < 1326040198 566521 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, signed. < 1326040199 858045 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Argh. < 1326040207 931262 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I've lost track of the argument. < 1326040213 516280 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :or in a single arbitrary-precision padding bit < 1326040260 507437 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: The padding bits are still bits that show up in the unsigned char[n] object representation. < 1326040286 573944 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(What does an "arbitrary-precision bit" even mean?) < 1326040305 185882 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :something that's called a "bit" but has infinite data < 1326040316 314204 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Well, you can be really sure of the precision of your 0s and 1s. < 1326040319 658300 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're... crisp. < 1326040321 284522 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :High-fidelity. < 1326040323 502950 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :All thanks to Monster Cable. < 1326040335 568472 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1326040342 313455 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks monster cable < 1326040432 239260 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: In any case, no matter whether it's legal for the padding bits to be not quite "bits" (which I doubt), it's still explicit that the value (as seen by arithmetic operations and such, I mean) of the object is strictly defined by the value bits. < 1326040491 20638 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the best way to store bits is as pebbles < 1326040621 199249 :atrapado!~rdrp@95.169.240.66 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, take a look at the wiki: SumaMoito < 1326040636 305890 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Based on the powerful editing component Scintilla, Notepad++ is written in C++ and uses pure Win32 API and STL which ensures a higher execution speed and smaller program size. By optimizing as many routines as possible without losing user friendliness, Notepad++ is trying to reduce the world carbon dioxide emissions. When using less CPU power, the PC can throttle down and reduce power consumption, resulting in a greener environment." < 1326040640 746710 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Worst. Marketing. Ever. < 1326040681 704109 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :atrapado: The only difference between Z1 and Z2 is the wraparound value? < 1326040700 190790 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just looks like brainfuck with variables instead of a tape and no IO to me. :p < 1326040711 568722 :atrapado!~rdrp@95.169.240.66 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the value that you get when decrement 0 < 1326040712 520662 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it's TC. < 1326040737 667787 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because you always condition on the same variable in a loop. < 1326040739 935086 :atrapado!~rdrp@95.169.240.66 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am sure they are tc, mostly < 1326040746 169841 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brainfuck with only balanced loops is not TC. < 1326040747 318290 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So... < 1326040757 816549 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :atrapado: You can be as sure as you like, that doesn't change the theory. < 1326040766 866865 :atrapado!~rdrp@95.169.240.66 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can have many variables and loops < 1326040788 368595 :atrapado!~rdrp@95.169.240.66 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i saw a proof some day < 1326040791 456240 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :atrapado: You can have many variables and loops in lots of sub-TC languages. < 1326040797 686919 :atrapado!~rdrp@95.169.240.66 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for z2 < 1326040813 715295 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay. Show the proof? < 1326040817 720974 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might be erroneous, after all... < 1326040824 2314 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the true value of TC that TC means compatible with LC? < 1326040825 982650 :atrapado!~rdrp@95.169.240.66 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in computer science grade < 1326040850 616401 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :atrapado: Err, you aren't the author of these languages? < 1326040856 271473 :atrapado!~rdrp@95.169.240.66 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well show me a computation that can not be done < 1326040864 408009 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that LC means you can derive mathematical proofs by the code < 1326040866 481539 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :atrapado: Burden of proof... < 1326040882 897077 :atrapado!~rdrp@95.169.240.66 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am the author of 2 of these lsnguages < 1326040901 484208 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :atrapado: Here's a thing that can't be done: a BF->SumaMoito-Z1 compiler. < 1326040916 729687 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :As I said, the loop structure is too weak. < 1326040920 915349 :atrapado!~rdrp@95.169.240.66 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1326040921 73910 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want to show it TC, show the compiler. < 1326040929 766509 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that esoteric programmers primary goal is to make programming useful for mathematical proofs < 1326040954 25530 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :atrapado: No what? < 1326040965 432681 :atrapado!~rdrp@95.169.240.66 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i implemented a compiler for one of these languages < 1326040977 547015 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :A compiler from what to what? < 1326040977 865200 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :atrapado, you invented that crap? < 1326040981 135244 :atrapado!~rdrp@95.169.240.66 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can add sub div... < 1326040991 906079 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rude... < 1326040998 659792 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :atrapado: The arithmetic isn't the problem. < 1326041000 961780 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The control flow is. < 1326041007 243608 :atrapado!~rdrp@95.169.240.66 PRIVMSG #esoteric :compiler from the language to c++ < 1326041013 354779 :atrapado!~rdrp@95.169.240.66 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1326041017 452484 :atrapado!~rdrp@95.169.240.66 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nest them < 1326041022 969652 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that doesn't prove anything; you can compile sub-TC languages to C++. < 1326041027 284988 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :atrapado: OK, let me put it this way. < 1326041031 615293 :atrapado!~rdrp@95.169.240.66 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes elliott < 1326041037 870351 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brainfuck with only balanced loops is *proven* sub-Turing-complete. < 1326041050 805851 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :In brainfuck, you *have* to be able to vary the cell you condition on for it to be TC. < 1326041057 192162 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your language is essentially BF with variables instead of cells. < 1326041060 645155 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric : >:-) < 1326041063 933570 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But your loop structure is over a constant variable. < 1326041069 289238 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You cannot change what you loop over in the loop itself. < 1326041075 98476 :atrapado!~rdrp@95.169.240.66 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1326041075 415034 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Therefore, it is most likely sub-TC. < 1326041086 426059 :atrapado!~rdrp@95.169.240.66 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is hard but is possible < 1326041086 744007 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :By analogy with the fact that balanced brainfuck is sub-TC. < 1326041087 736766 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you can swap two variables, can't you? < 1326041099 19264 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Weell... < 1326041100 182875 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326041108 566712 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I suppose so, with a third variable. < 1326041122 672048 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1326041122 828234 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: But a loop can only swap two fixed variables. < 1326041155 651098 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :atrapado: Oh well, if you're just going to continue asserting it's TC based on no evidence at all in the face of fair sketch arguments it's not, then reasoning with you about it is pointless < 1326041169 962185 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, it /seems/ like an MRM would be a worthwhile avenue. < 1326041186 9376 :atrapado!~rdrp@95.169.240.66 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am not mathematician < 1326041189 500270 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :SumaMoito-Z1 and -Z2 are, I think, Turing Complete < 1326041192 754786 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: MRM? < 1326041198 345944 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :atrapado: Nor am I, what's your point? < 1326041200 54968 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Minsky register machine? < 1326041201 860009 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isomorphic to a Minsky Machine < 1326041203 129470 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Ah. < 1326041208 781406 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: I don't think so. < 1326041212 370602 :atrapado!~rdrp@95.169.240.66 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to show the proof < 1326041213 641994 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the loop structure still. < 1326041217 234097 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, not isomorphic, but < 1326041220 59740 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :atrapado: Proving it TC is trivial; you just have to write a compiler from a TC language to it. < 1326041223 867744 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not really sure how MRMs work, so I can't say. < 1326041230 346754 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :atrapado: For instance something very simple like boolfuck or as Phantom_Hoover said a Minsky machine. < 1326041278 803220 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I could translate any Minsky Machine with n registers to a SumaMoito program with n+1 variables < 1326041289 229287 :atrapado!~rdrp@95.169.240.66 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i did not see a computation that can not be done with the languages < 1326041312 461672 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :atrapado: Proof by lack of imagination is a common but invalid method :) < 1326041321 945107 :atrapado!~rdrp@95.169.240.66 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes i see < 1326041347 252426 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How are Minsky Machines numerally notated? < 1326041397 308288 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what happens in z2 if you decrement a zero variable < 1326041408 867765 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, OK, Minsky machines might work. < 1326041409 509257 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it is fascinating that something which is sub-TC becomes impossible to implement a compiler for in something which is TC < 1326041414 1741 :atrapado!~rdrp@95.169.240.66 PRIVMSG #esoteric :stays the same < 1326041415 271071 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy, it stays 0 < 1326041419 280079 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I dunno. < 1326041423 567591 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: unimaginitive < 1326041423 726370 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :BCT looks implementable too. < 1326041424 519992 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You need an "if". < 1326041430 137562 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not convinced the "while" there can do an "if". < 1326041445 511247 :atrapado!~rdrp@95.169.240.66 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it can do < 1326041454 124581 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :atrapado: Not necessarily in the way required. < 1326041456 824934 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: what < 1326041459 144786 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, have a 3rd variable stuck at 0? < 1326041472 647508 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, is sumamoito not a form of computation? :D < 1326041477 834705 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, hang on < 1326041477 991049 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1326041479 739597 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can do < 1326041480 532128 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :temp = foo < 1326041483 944836 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it not? < 1326041486 801659 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :while (foo) { ...; foo = 0 } < 1326041487 990660 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo = temp < 1326041494 858660 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that means the whole thing _cannot_ change foo at all in any way < 1326041496 959753 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehehe < 1326041498 388426 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1326041499 189068 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :temp = foo < 1326041508 152597 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :while (foo) { ...; /* sets add */; foo = 0 } < 1326041508 984802 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo = temp < 1326041510 94304 :variable!root@freebsd/developer/variable NICK :consrt < 1326041511 268227 :consrt!root@freebsd/developer/variable NICK :const < 1326041519 67155 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :/* foo += add */ < 1326041520 654162 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :while (a) { a-; b+; code }; while (b) { code } seems like it'd work as an if-else. < 1326041522 297314 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That could work if you can do addition. < 1326041527 585068 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why can't a TC do sumamoito i wonder.. perhaps due to some limitation of the power of a TC < 1326041530 440036 :atrapado!~rdrp@95.169.240.66 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well strictly speaking there is no = < 1326041536 352963 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can even restore a int the else loop. < 1326041537 171584 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: what < 1326041538 203930 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :atrapado: It was pseudocode < 1326041541 691796 :atrapado!~rdrp@95.169.240.66 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1326041555 424783 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah.. TC is overhyped < 1326041556 376871 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Erm, that only works if a is either 0 or 1. < 1326041562 86583 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is not the case with an MRM. < 1326041572 544830 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: I think you misinterpreted something < 1326041576 873035 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, erm, right. < 1326041600 111872 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: probably < 1326041603 641130 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah.. < 1326041613 199722 :Zuu!zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric < 1326041621 885434 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you replace code with while (c) {code; c-} and then put c+ outside the loop? < 1326041632 164811 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And set c to 1 beforehand. < 1326041634 456968 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: it's not that you can't write a SumaMoito compiler in a TC language; it's that you can't compile from a TC language to SumaMoito, or so the claim goes < 1326041638 164233 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: if that clears anything up < 1326041647 605850 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohhh < 1326041651 338969 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes that helps < 1326041659 132074 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1326041676 213528 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my misinterpretation was more exciting < 1326041689 136264 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: b+; while (a) { whentrue; while (a) { a- }; b- } while (b) { whenfalse } < 1326041691 100441 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, you want something like Gravity < 1326041694 641809 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't worry there's still plenty of fun stuff you can't do < 1326041696 951252 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: The problem is that, with an MRM, you have to test whether it's zero /without clobbering it/. < 1326041705 887066 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is impossible, because you only have a while loop on a fixed variable. < 1326041708 306360 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you have to copy it elsewhere. < 1326041713 805923 :atrapado!~rdrp@95.169.240.66 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1326041716 788494 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes; where's the problem with that/ < 1326041723 35985 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Because the operation is to decrement it. < 1326041735 532466 :atrapado!~rdrp@95.169.240.66 PRIVMSG #esoteric :while a a- b+ c+ ??? < 1326041761 193075 :atrapado!~rdrp@95.169.240.66 PRIVMSG #esoteric :copy < 1326041766 109649 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: i do not quite enjoy not being educated in maths... it takes a lot of the fun out of esolangs < 1326041775 43781 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, :P < 1326041781 195773 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Okay, b+; while (a) { dec+; tmp+; while (a) { a- }; b- }; while (tmp) { a+; tmp- }; while (dec) { a-; dec- } while (b) { ... } < 1326041790 39368 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's "if a>0, decrement a, else ...". < 1326041827 417112 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it also means not very fun to browse wiki pages about math(s) < 1326041847 219973 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1326041850 391906 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :every time i hit a mathematical notation it is like a toll gate < 1326041859 261238 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tmp = 0, c=1; while (a) { a-; tmp+; while(c) {code; c-}}; while(c){c-}; c+; while (tmp) {tmp-; a+; while(c){code; c-}}; while(c){c-}; c+? < 1326041860 54880 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: Ignorance is bliss, they say. < 1326041864 242568 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: There's no =. < 1326041872 834602 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they do. and in my experience.. it has proven true < 1326041876 115638 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I'm not sure what that is meant to do. < 1326041878 333040 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that's shorthand for initialisation, duh. < 1326041884 415692 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: It generally rings true for the ignorant, yes. < 1326041891 574807 :atrapado!~rdrp@95.169.240.66 PRIVMSG #esoteric :can be emulated, the = < 1326041892 209173 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: What's your thing meant to do that mine doesn't? < 1326041899 23904 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's meant to be a straight if-then-else. < 1326041903 428064 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1326041980 239896 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: isfalse+; while (cond) { istrue+; tmp+; while (cond) { cond- }; isfalse- }; while (tmp) { cond+; tmp- }; while (istrue) { WHENTRUE; istrue- }; while (isfalse) { WHENFALSE; isfalse- } < 1326041984 88618 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's my if/then/else. < 1326041999 535968 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Now the main problem is: you need a set of declarations for each variable you condition on. < 1326042004 889465 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I think it /might/ be enough to do an MRM. < 1326042026 682645 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, there are no limits for variable declaration though, so that's OK, isn't it? < 1326042036 452283 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Well... this thing can't nest. < 1326042039 117786 :atrapado!~rdrp@95.169.240.66 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no limits < 1326042039 434316 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you guys saw my initial budding efforts at language design in the past it might be vomit inducing < 1326042047 744454 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you put an if/then/else inside an if/then/else, the outer loop's state gets fucked up. < 1326042051 160273 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehehehe < 1326042058 869927 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: That's problematic, because there's no other way to do control flow other than nesting in this thing. < 1326042065 572525 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you need to find a way to "unroll" everything at the top level. < 1326042070 648919 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think that's possible. < 1326042083 264470 :atrapado!~rdrp@95.169.240.66 PRIVMSG #esoteric :can nest < 1326042089 490647 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :atrapado: I know they can nest. < 1326042096 556758 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't you just assign a unique set of variables to each if construct? < 1326042099 122054 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I understand the language. < 1326042105 66674 :atrapado!~rdrp@95.169.240.66 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1326042106 772213 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Well, yes. < 1326042134 943115 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know how to implement unsafeCoerce# in pure Haskell! let x = x in x < 1326042137 89898 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :^^joke < 1326042140 264527 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :^^joke < 1326042143 499056 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :aplause < 1326042155 981134 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheers echo far and wide < 1326042158 482073 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :for sgeos < 1326042158 997038 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :joke < 1326042162 596121 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: a++; b++; if (a>0) { a--; } else { ... }; if (b>0) { b--; } else { ... } is a TC MRM, right? < 1326042162 913974 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I didn't say joke, some of you would think I was being serious < 1326042168 764845 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Where ... is part of the instruction. < 1326042170 909351 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, let me rephrase that. < 1326042172 495891 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :atrapado, what happens if you do something like "a; a+; a;"? < 1326042176 98743 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :INC_A = a++ < 1326042179 298665 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :INC_B = b++ < 1326042181 996192 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you expect me to know a thing like that?? < 1326042187 250859 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :A{...} = if (a>) { a-- } else { ... } < 1326042189 312835 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh < 1326042190 144510 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*>) < 1326042191 294909 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*>0 < 1326042194 149415 :atrapado!~rdrp@95.169.240.66 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it should not compile, ngevd < 1326042196 568583 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :B{...} = if (b>0) { b-- } else { ... } < 1326042207 422146 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Well, just confirm whether my understanding of what http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Minsky_machine says is correct. :p < 1326042208 144158 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think we have enough for all the normal arithmetic tools, though, so BCT looks achievable. < 1326042224 171562 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I'm just not convinced that a structural nested thing like that is enough to accomplish a "state transition". < 1326042256 309320 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Structured programming languages require powerful enough control structures to not be sub-TC, after all. < 1326042262 443101 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :goto is significantly more flexible. < 1326042285 318634 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect the standard presentation of an MRM program involves labelled statements where the decrement jump location is taken as a goto. < 1326042288 716257 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, 'state transition' meaning 'switching to a different set of code', essentially? < 1326042296 264522 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Wait, obviously what I said wasn't enough. < 1326042300 853570 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because there's no looping. < 1326042306 806868 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So yeah, Phantom_Hoover: Okay, b+; while (a) { dec+; tmp+; while (a) { a- }; b- }; while (tmp) { a+; tmp- }; while (dec) { a-; dec- } while (b) { ... } < 1326042313 103105 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just isn't enough on its own to accomplish the control. < 1326042332 635247 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there anything preventing a real easy reduction to balanced-loops bf < 1326042354 80162 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326042370 711431 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy, balanced loops infinite cell size, no < 1326042377 276600 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't this whole thing start because balanced-loops is sub-TC? < 1326042388 271720 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hence the mention < 1326042391 842798 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only if the cells are finite in size < 1326042675 785023 :atrapado!~rdrp@95.169.240.66 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if (a) {code}; -> while (a) { code; while (a) a-; } < 1326042695 246758 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :We passed that point a long, long time ago. < 1326042710 925420 :atrapado!~rdrp@95.169.240.66 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok just remembering < 1326042741 439995 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not sufficient in itself, because you can't do an else. < 1326042754 985985 :atrapado!~rdrp@95.169.240.66 PRIVMSG #esoteric :else is if not a < 1326042791 409408 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you zeroed a at the end??? < 1326042793 5361 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you implement not? < 1326042799 598462 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that too < 1326042800 592043 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And what monqy said. < 1326042801 264779 :atrapado!~rdrp@95.169.240.66 PRIVMSG #esoteric :copy it < 1326042816 840765 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Copy what? < 1326042822 315223 :atrapado!~rdrp@95.169.240.66 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a to b < 1326042822 949322 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right. < 1326042832 392818 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is kind of moot, because we've demonstrated that if-then-else is possible; see above. < 1326042849 582824 :atrapado!~rdrp@95.169.240.66 PRIVMSG #esoteric :another formulation < 1326042860 366942 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: I think it's easy, yes, because you always know how far away you are from another variable. < 1326042868 831221 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'm not *quite* sure. < 1326042887 703760 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm erring on the side of the control flow being too weak. < 1326042981 814870 :atrapado!~rdrp@95.169.240.66 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a=1 while (b) { a = 0 ; B- } this is not < 1326043048 268691 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm erring on the side of it being strong enough: you're able to have normal nested while and if statements, AFAICT. < 1326043095 170616 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I'm not sure that's enough. < 1326043104 406961 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Balanced BF has that. < 1326043124 430068 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you need some "dynamicity" in the control flow, like you get with goto, or being able to change the conditioned variable (unbalanced BF). < 1326043186 464840 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can keep a variable called "check" in the while and just swap the value of check around < 1326043186 941454 :atrapado!~rdrp@95.169.240.66 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can do logical and of two variables, and other connectives < 1326043189 323468 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm really not sure of that. < 1326043194 443754 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Never mind < 1326043200 395714 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Sure of what? < 1326043236 743531 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, so wait, can we assume that it's possible to implement the appropriate arithmetic functions to manipulate (appropriately-framed) bitstreams? < 1326043354 826315 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I can write a=take(s) to remove the first bit in a stream and put it in a, and put(b,s) to stick a bit onto the end of a stream without needing to specify the exact implementation of all the relevant arithmetic? < 1326043411 504020 :atrapado!~rdrp@95.169.240.66 PRIVMSG #esoteric :with add sub mult and div and loops maybe? < 1326043436 833715 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes; I'm confident that what we have is enough for those. < 1326043440 525994 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : OK, so wait, can we assume that it's possible to implement the appropriate arithmetic functions to manipulate (appropriately-framed) bitstreams? < 1326043443 267965 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I'm sceptical. < 1326043461 672910 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Well, *2 is easy enough. < 1326043470 836209 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :%2 as well. < 1326043477 297688 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess +1 is too. < 1326043487 439231 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :/2? < 1326043495 630485 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, let's try it? < 1326043503 9157 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Can it be put(s,b) btw. < 1326043512 431776 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, OK. < 1326043531 440145 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :put(s,0) = { s'; while (s) { s'+; s'+; s- }; while (s') { s+; s'- } } < 1326043539 450190 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :put(s,1) = { put(s,0); s+ } < 1326043557 319101 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Also take(s,b) to put it in b. < 1326043570 772051 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. < 1326043574 906067 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Brainfuck_algorithms#x_.3D_x_.2F_y < 1326043581 15765 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :while(b != zero) {b-;} while(a != zero){a-; a-; b+;} < 1326043581 809510 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shhh. < 1326043605 160988 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are we still talking about SumaMoito? < 1326043605 636334 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: OK, divmod is quite tricky. < 1326043609 482092 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: Yes. < 1326043612 812949 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :-Z1. < 1326043621 603925 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It relies on overflow behaviour. < 1326043626 250320 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Actually, we could just do div and mod separately. < 1326043640 346605 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: /2 is tricky. < 1326043647 380353 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :while (s) { s-; s-; d+ } doesn't work. < 1326043653 225502 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, it works in -Z2. < 1326043663 342307 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But isn't -Z1 the one we're considering? < 1326043665 760926 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The code I wrote there is the turns b into the ceiling of a/2 < 1326043666 753802 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the simplest. < 1326043679 707394 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :-Z2 < 1326043686 414717 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :-n < 1326043697 129533 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Proving one of them TC would be good enough for now, surely? < 1326043711 686529 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could we do %2 in -z1? < 1326043719 295972 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Well, OK. < 1326043736 190232 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :while (s) { s-; s-; d+ } < 1326043738 812341 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's /2. < 1326043746 124838 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :%2 is harder. < 1326043753 156060 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, we don't need d, actually. < 1326043757 293151 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :while (s) { s-; s- } # obvious < 1326043759 674607 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait. < 1326043763 777515 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, we do need d. < 1326043777 496752 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :while (s) { s'+; s-; s- }; while (s') { s+; s'- } < 1326043785 496928 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The problem now is getting the remainder. < 1326043789 35508 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, wait! < 1326043798 559031 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :while (s) {s -; if(d){d-}{d+}} < 1326043805 160152 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :while (s) { s'+; s-; if (s) { r+ } else { s- } }; while (s') { s+; s'- } < 1326043810 327855 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: Ah, yes. < 1326043819 655009 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :while (s) { s'+; s-; if (s) { s'-; r+ } else { s- } }; while (s') { s+; s'- } < 1326043831 263822 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: OK, rewrite that with your if-then-else. < 1326043890 104977 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, elliott, Phantom_Hoover, the Turing-Completeness people. < 1326043913 748185 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, do I have to? < 1326043922 466295 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't we just say it's possible and leave it at that? < 1326043927 910169 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, no, it's... < 1326043937 939928 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :take(s,b) = { while (s) { s'+; s-; if (s) { s'- } else { b+; s- } }; while (s') { s+; s'- } } < 1326043938 775570 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right? < 1326043944 53144 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in, the remainder is on the other branch. < 1326043978 463206 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: OK, let's assume it's possible. < 1326043982 4045 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Continue, sir. < 1326044107 152695 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, we have +1, *2, /2, %2 < 1326044136 740066 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t break < 1326044137 532526 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (a -> Bool) -> [a] -> ([a], [a]) < 1326044143 469288 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> break (== '=') "a=b=c" < 1326044144 284817 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ("a","=b=c") < 1326044173 460712 :atrapado!~rdrp@95.169.240.66 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one difficult but possible thing is abs(A-B) in 3 langs < 1326044193 206295 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> braek (== '=') "a" < 1326044194 366553 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: `braek' < 1326044197 668744 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> break (== '=') "a" < 1326044198 701005 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ("a","") < 1326044296 641159 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t lookup < 1326044297 445070 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b. (Eq a) => a -> [(a, b)] -> Maybe b < 1326044389 894931 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right then. p = ; d = ; while (1) { b; take(p,b); put(p,b); if(b) { take(p,b'); put(p,b'); d' = d; take(d,r); if(r) { put(d,b') } else { d = d' } } else { take(d,b') } < 1326044560 517544 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Does that handle the "cyclic" part? < 1326044591 51519 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You mean the "program string cycles" part? < 1326044600 79671 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :He does < 1326044632 525084 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If so, take(p,b); put(p,b); reappends instructions. < 1326044640 295255 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: Goodbye < 1326044699 774631 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1326044709 147059 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, I guess it's TC then. < 1326044731 5440 :atrapado!~rdrp@95.169.240.66 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1326044846 229377 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :another language? today is a good day < 1326044854 572330 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Better question: What's the minimum number of variables for it to be TC? < 1326044874 40888 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I can't tell from yours because you don't define most of your damn variables. < 1326044892 931850 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Generic is a WIP language made by Tailcalled in a way that makes many concepts from Category Theory easy to define." < 1326044911 884603 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :6? < 1326044917 662368 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh dear. < 1326044962 975553 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although your algorithms might have some extra implicit ones, and the ifs have their variables. < 1326045185 821866 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION almost forgot about scanl < 1326045187 625000 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1326045212 431041 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Never forget about scanl, it's always waiting to jump on you when you least expect it. < 1326045212 589983 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: So should I read Mac Lane. < 1326045237 270513 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t replicateM < 1326045238 64753 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (m :: * -> *) a. (Monad m) => Int -> m a -> m [a] < 1326045250 811955 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t scanl < 1326045251 604623 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b. (a -> b -> a) -> a -> [b] -> [a] < 1326045256 969119 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> replicateM 3 "abc" < 1326045257 763506 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ["aaa","aab","aac","aba","abb","abc","aca","acb","acc","baa","bab","bac","b... < 1326045286 666978 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> replicateM_ 3 "abc" < 1326045287 302170 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),()... < 1326045300 120923 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src replicateM < 1326045300 279709 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :replicateM n x = sequence (replicate n x) < 1326045327 494628 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@replicateM_ < 1326045327 811340 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknown command, try @list < 1326045334 108958 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src replicateM_ < 1326045334 267498 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :replicateM_ n x = sequence_ (replicate n x) < 1326045514 742857 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src sequence < 1326045514 901520 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :sequence [] = return [] < 1326045515 60707 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :sequence (x:xs) = do v <- x; vs <- sequence xs; return (v:vs) < 1326045515 219236 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- OR: sequence = foldr (liftM2 (:)) (return []) < 1326045654 891245 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Phantom_Hoover: So should I read Mac Lane. < 1326045680 583872 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, if you don't get put off by the examples being pretty obscure. < 1326045685 769537 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obscure howso? < 1326045705 68002 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maths. < 1326045736 327001 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're generally either topological, set-theoretical or group-theoretical. < 1326045749 68027 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: They should use practical examples instead, like counting change. < 1326045800 153325 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well no, it's just that I get annoyed when I have to skip bits because I don't understand the category in question. < 1326045932 838300 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION knows ~0 topology and group theory, and very basic set theory, so he's clearly in the target market. < 1326045944 412403 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, OK, more than ~0 group theory. < 1326045981 863300 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, he defines and explains natural transformations in half a page, and then gives examples for the next two. < 1326046037 512751 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: How far in did you get? < 1326046060 375323 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :We should READ MAC LANE TOGETHER (N.B. this would be the most harrowing experience of your entire life). < 1326046060 534272 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right now, '5. Monics, Epis and Zeros'. < 1326046108 355966 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Those are monomorphisms and epimorphisms! I know this because Wikipedia says so. < 1326046110 463915 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Epics, presumably. < 1326046118 480323 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What chapter is that in? < 1326046120 547530 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope, it says Epis here. < 1326046125 379257 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not one of the chapters on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Categories_for_the_Working_Mathematician, at least. < 1326046132 104555 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Heh, a typo I guess. < 1326046144 548145 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1. < 1326046146 175122 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326046164 486761 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :('Mon' is obviously a popular syllable in category theory.) < 1326046176 252100 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: EXCELLENT THERE IS STILL TIME TO READ MAC LANE TOGETHER (N.B. you would not only lose the will to live but lose everyone else's will to live too somehow.) < 1326046187 61625 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1326046198 586619 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where are we up to? < 1326046210 79033 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: Oh god. < 1326046214 204704 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chapter 1, section 5. < 1326046225 429183 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: *Chapter 0 section 0 < 1326046234 68481 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :we can have a mac lane party < 1326046239 741784 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you didn't even read the Amazon preview?? < 1326046244 602131 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy, friendship mac lane < 1326046249 959463 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I read the first few pages? Wait, did you actually BUY it? < 1326046254 41670 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahahaha < 1326046254 835324 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1326046255 469120 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, pyrated. < 1326046263 122980 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I resent the implication. < 1326046271 605642 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :im not cool enough for pyracy < 1326046277 299898 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK maybe a Mac Lane party wouldn't be such a completely terrible idea? < 1326046279 132152 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, no, that's a pyrite. < 1326046291 871288 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION says this because he has absolutely no chance of getting anything out of it solo. :p < 1326046305 896640 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT only cool people are invited (cool people are Phantom_Hoover and elliott). < 1326046306 214744 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :We can all be objects and when we talk to each other they'll be morphisms < 1326046310 498011 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i need peer pressure for the mac lanes to sink in < 1326046312 402855 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(monqy is instead coole) < 1326046318 339472 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :corollary: we're all insane < 1326046335 369300 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or Sgeo, I suppose. < 1326046349 202417 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo what. < 1326046355 359045 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is the wolrd coming to? < 1326046359 148631 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're all sgeo < 1326046372 548269 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ALSO: overly fond of Chinese whispers. < 1326046380 366830 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I have no idea what you are saying. < 1326046413 973779 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, obviously we all talk to ourselves, thus we're all really lonely and pathetic, thus Sgeo (sorry Sgeo). < 1326046419 843663 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Ah. < 1326046428 969229 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where does Chinese whispers come into it. < 1326046452 821597 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, if I talk to you and you talk to monqy, I must talk to monqy, so obviously we talk to each other with Chinese whispers. < 1326046471 756997 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't make sense otherwise. < 1326046583 328448 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still don't know what's going on < 1326046600 19502 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: death. < 1326046615 146289 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Death, the concept, the event, or the personification? < 1326046624 269695 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every. < 1326046635 203806 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, death, the category. < 1326046653 441016 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :terribly sorrey but i've lost your will to live < 1326046657 26904 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(You're an object, if you kill someone it's an arrow.) < 1326046666 70489 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Suicide is rife.) < 1326046668 134385 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just going to stare into my working ( :-] ) Haskell program < 1326046686 191631 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :whats a :-] < 1326046692 446487 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Robot smile. < 1326046700 915865 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also: stare into?? < 1326046704 562419 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1326046710 979897 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it stare back into you < 1326046713 358186 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No < 1326046718 673672 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not that good a programmer < 1326046738 160491 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :put an eye or two in the comments < 1326046741 639420 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can be stare friends < 1326046772 357272 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a function called "isElementHaha" < 1326046814 726848 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :put a mouth or two in the comments < 1326046819 227198 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can be laugh friends < 1326046873 862877 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dammit, monqy, now I'm thinking about AI < 1326046877 290758 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, dinnertime < 1326046878 599787 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bye < 1326046879 552985 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: Goodbye < 1326047574 214618 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`logs (?:test) < 1326047577 423931 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: logs: not found < 1326047578 929768 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log (?:test) < 1326047586 482792 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this PCRE or....? < 1326047600 31286 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2010-12-13.txt:22:15:12: Anyone fancy thrashing this guy at his own programming contest? http://skybuck.org/BoxifyMe < 1326047619 497944 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes < 1326047872 724262 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1326047874 416818 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :grep -P < 1326048223 40494 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :weidest smiley ever < 1326048227 540037 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326048230 282945 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1326048239 347759 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hpaste.org/56263 < 1326048303 210176 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"both :: (a->b) -> (a,a) -> (b,b) < 1326048303 408178 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1326048319 171942 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: What of it? < 1326048321 53367 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, the whitespace there is fine. < 1326048333 371541 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, there should be a space around the (->). < 1326048343 666116 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I have that thing where my sense of scale goes mad < 1326048348 745931 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Compiles fine < 1326048435 511406 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: wat < 1326048442 844613 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm joking. < 1326048459 223018 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought there were two spaces somewhere. < 1326048606 179151 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :"kallisti: Sounds RSIish." <-- here is something sitting in my input buffer. I have no idea what it means. < 1326048686 61318 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds rsish. < 1326048695 651402 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Probably kallisti complaining about his fatigue? < 1326048699 629307 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is fatigue the word. < 1326048734 23667 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://skybuck.org/BoxifyMe/ why aren't books written like this < 1326048805 106555 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :good writing < 1326048818 281968 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, I recall the BoxifyMe thing from comp.lang.c. < 1326048857 515050 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no complaining about muscle cramps in hands. < 1326048862 208741 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :WebSplat time! < 1326048866 458440 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: you suggested that it may be repetitive strain injury < 1326048873 45123 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh yeah < 1326048880 519084 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: That's what I meant. < 1326048892 52069 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I already told kallisti it's probably either the beginnings of RSI and carpal tunnel and to consult a doctor :P < 1326049176 43300 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: indeed < 1326049185 905949 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what's a good example of a comparison on CReals that doesn't terminate? < 1326049223 914741 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :x == x < 1326049233 207818 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The loss of Havenworks is one of the great tragedies of our time. < 1326049250 297031 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What're CReals? < 1326049258 161167 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 2 == 2 :: CReal < 1326049258 957096 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `Data.Number.CReal.CReal' < 1326049259 272537 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against infe... < 1326049263 72793 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 2 == (2 :: CReal) < 1326049263 945142 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : True < 1326049265 652615 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Computable reals. < 1326049273 3618 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: That CReal just compares the first 200 digits or so. < 1326049280 77743 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's evil. < 1326049285 82908 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :gross < 1326049290 768292 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> pi :: CReal < 1326049291 562922 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 3.1415926535897932384626433832795028841972 < 1326049292 674856 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same as show. < 1326049308 201570 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (pi :: CReal) == (pi :: CReal) + (1/100000000000000) < 1326049309 155300 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : False < 1326049312 50505 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (pi :: CReal) == (pi :: CReal) + (1/10000000000000000) < 1326049313 2679 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : False < 1326049315 210653 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (pi :: CReal) == (pi :: CReal) + (1/10000000000000000000000000000000) < 1326049315 846929 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : False < 1326049320 810716 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, maybe it's doing something fancier. < 1326049322 559848 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I don't know what. < 1326049327 339027 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src pi < 1326049327 655714 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source not found. Just try something else. < 1326049327 815083 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I think someone saved Havenworks. < 1326049339 825887 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Class method. < 1326049340 819293 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src Floating < 1326049340 977508 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :class (Fractional a) => Floating a where < 1326049341 294552 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : pi :: a < 1326049341 450983 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : exp, log, sqrt, sin, cos, tan :: a -> a < 1326049341 451181 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : asin, acos, atan, sinh, cosh, tanh, asinh, acosh, atanh :: a -> a < 1326049341 451289 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : (**), logBase :: a -> a -> a < 1326049346 45025 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1326049354 552573 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I know, but I couldn't think of a better place to look. < 1326049376 123518 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Ugh; the Wayback Machine won't show Havenworks because the robots.txt request times out. < 1326049376 281448 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (pi :: CReal) == (pi :: CReal) + ((1 :: CReal)/(10**400)) < 1326049377 273767 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : True < 1326049387 263 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :...despite the fact that http://havenworks.com/robots.txt loads... < 1326049410 482080 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :instance Eq CReal where < 1326049410 641972 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : x == y = s' (digitsToBits digits) == 0 where (CR s') = x-y < 1326049421 532774 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :digitsToBits :: Int -> Int < 1326049421 691496 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :digitsToBits d = ceiling (fromIntegral d * (logBase 2.0 10.0 :: Double)) + 4 < 1326049434 300019 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :digits :: Int < 1326049434 457926 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :digits = 40 < 1326049435 755515 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Havenworks... is that the site with Computer Stupidities? < 1326049448 574086 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it's not. < 1326049453 693360 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's Rinkworks. < 1326049502 553280 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1326049541 408079 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Disturbed that fizzie knows this. < 1326049583 380481 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How is that disturbing? < 1326049595 556598 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle var < 1326049595 900507 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Language.Haskell.TH.Syntax VarE :: Name -> Exp < 1326049596 68532 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Language.Haskell.TH VarE :: Name -> Exp < 1326049596 233556 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Language.Haskell.TH.Lib varE :: Name -> ExpQ < 1326049659 65086 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's an old(ish) site, I think. < 1326049670 309049 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've used their Fantasy Name Generator for my Diablo II characters. :p < 1326050195 960626 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :why does Complex a require a to be a RealFloat in order for it to be considered a Num. < 1326050215 458745 :anders!anders@unaffiliated/anders JOIN :#esoteric < 1326050334 869729 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome anders < 1326050339 197432 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :anders: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page < 1326050429 530974 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> sqrt 50 < 1326050430 483308 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 7.0710678118654755 < 1326050432 626930 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah I see < 1326050436 560150 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forgot num includes abs < 1326050461 372035 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which requires sqrt for complex numbers. < 1326050524 725103 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :> signum (2 :+ 2) < 1326050525 496690 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 0.7071067811865475 :+ 0.7071067811865475 < 1326050527 996793 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hokay. < 1326050539 148707 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: It's sort of positive! < 1326050592 985354 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It's sqrt(2) positive and sqrt(2) ordered; see, there's the positive/negative line of signitude, and the order/chaos line too. < 1326050618 673788 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait everything requires real number stuff < 1326050643 10185 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :multiplication and division uses cosine. < 1326050655 991663 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and sine < 1326050722 145240 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh? (a+bi)*(c+di) = (ac-bd) + (bc+ad)i. < 1326051261 441581 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: kallisti is a polar bear so obvious he won't use that representation. < 1326051356 999088 :Zwaarddijk!miekko@infa.abo.fi NICK :Systemzwang < 1326051377 164528 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: While I, being such a square, obvious do. < 1326051506 926075 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess you could say these are complex issues XDXDXD < 1326051632 572931 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: polar form is just cartesian stuff with more trig. < 1326051636 877134 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION mathematician < 1326051655 692817 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an abstraction over sine and cosine. < 1326051657 321083 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so.. < 1326051660 48451 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1326051677 321250 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay you win < 1326051691 841508 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: are you in turku, wanna have a beer? < 1326051741 322384 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't beer :( :/ :\ and I don't Turku either. :( :/ :\ < 1326051790 481796 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The first is a big social problem; we had a "let's have everyone bring here a poster" event the other day, and it was merged with a beer tastery thing. < 1326051797 995239 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't touch that Turku stuff. < 1326051799 835731 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not being in Turku hasn't been a big problem so far. < 1326051817 545838 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`fetch http://sprunge.us/iKNC < 1326051820 718712 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2012-01-08 19:43:40 URL:http://sprunge.us/iKNC [395] -> "iKNC" [1] < 1326051837 601201 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, but what about all the friends you could have in Turku? < 1326051841 712480 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run ghc -O2 -o bin/searchlog iKNC < 1326051848 587971 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :target `iKNC' is not a module name or a source file < 1326051869 883742 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run mv iKNC searchlog.hs; ghc -O2 -o bin/searchlog searchlog.hs; chmod +x bin/searchlog < 1326051885 2782 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_> < 1326051886 430740 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: that thing is useless < 1326051889 8800 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​[1 of 1] Compiling Main ( searchlog.hs, searchlog.o ) \ Linking bin/searchlog ... < 1326051895 490243 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it is? < 1326051908 132600 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it could be. I haven't tested it yet. < 1326051921 549740 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, it's broken. < 1326051939 661775 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> permutations ["some", "words"] < 1326051943 113202 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [["some","words"],["words","some"]] < 1326051955 149242 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it is? < 1326051960 467342 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1326051963 212720 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh indeed. < 1326051966 321608 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :one sec < 1326052071 46945 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`fetch http://sprunge.us/REKU < 1326052073 624375 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2012-01-08 19:47:53 URL:http://sprunge.us/REKU [441] -> "REKU" [1] < 1326052087 909905 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run mv REKU searchlog.hs; ghc -O2 -o bin/searchlog searchlog.hs; chmod +x bin/searchlog < 1326052092 672305 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1326052112 798493 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`searchlog elliott dicks < 1326052120 174629 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::0 < 1326052133 242079 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: how is it broken? I doubt we saw the same brokenness < 1326052145 602872 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1326052161 397294 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I see... < 1326052179 792870 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it also doesn't pipe stdout correctly < 1326052183 130817 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t join . map words < 1326052183 963718 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :[String] -> [String] < 1326052191 803880 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t concatMap words < 1326052192 478703 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :[String] -> [String] < 1326052207 707966 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does looking fondly upon m4 make me a deviant? < 1326052218 47429 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-205-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Only slightly. < 1326052218 418536 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: < 1326052222 70356 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know enough about m4 to answer < 1326052222 865201 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : createProcess (proc "/hackenv/bin/log" [r]) < 1326052226 715182 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I love m4. < 1326052234 725765 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the best! < 1326052240 395264 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yeah this is my first time using System.Process. < 1326052240 575387 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-205-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: Autotools has M4 as one of the major implementation languages. < 1326052261 939849 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I now know enough about m4 to answer < 1326052268 146680 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-205-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1326052271 178941 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah wait proc uses Inherit < 1326052289 265530 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that should be fine. < 1326052297 189084 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy, listen not to pikhq, he knows not the awesome of m4. < 1326052313 236918 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I'll < 1326052313 918569 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :learn < 1326052314 899730 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :m4 < 1326052327 570521 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or < 1326052331 864675 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :stare at it a bit and get bored < 1326052336 770897 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`which log < 1326052340 205200 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/hackenv/bin/log < 1326052366 236785 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I can't spot the wrongness. < 1326052368 762164 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: The best part about m4 is that it has a command to redefine the core lexical syntax. < 1326052375 654939 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: You spawn a process and immediately terminate. < 1326052386 858567 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember a lot of that kind of thing. < 1326052388 699556 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1326052413 982139 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: http://www.gnu.org/software/m4/manual/m4.html#Changeword < 1326052414 299019 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah wait I should be using... rawSystem I think? < 1326052423 29717 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: No. < 1326052425 929397 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should be waiting for the process < 1326052435 20300 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :does rawSystem not do that? I guess not. < 1326052440 99159 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's deprecated. < 1326052442 161064 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, sure that's not just a GNU extension? < 1326052457 454106 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I think it is, but who cares? < 1326052483 502846 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: sorry perl < 1326052494 637720 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :changequote is there by default, I think. < 1326052535 298940 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: What? < 1326052577 729756 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :a perl which is sorry < 1326052583 817348 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :a sorry perl < 1326052601 36260 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well I guess perl would do the same thing if I specified that I want a process in the equivalent way... < 1326052611 768028 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :since they're... equivalent < 1326052637 576846 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's not really meant. I meat that from programming in perl I expect things I shouldn't when doing things in other languages. basically. < 1326052641 656827 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :+what I < 1326052648 949774 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just think of it like subprocess. < 1326052653 351315 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1326052663 431455 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no confusion on what it means. now. < 1326052683 332511 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy will enjoy this: < 1326052687 329416 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`fetch http://sprunge.us/WBad < 1326052689 474335 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2012-01-08 19:58:09 URL:http://sprunge.us/WBad [510] -> "WBad" [1] < 1326052703 196018 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1326052706 452150 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wbad < 1326052712 833451 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run mv WBad searchlog.hs; ghc -O2 -o bin/searchlog searchlog.hs; chmod +x bin/searchlog < 1326052727 128302 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linking bin/searchlog ... < 1326052728 596178 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it an omen < 1326052734 706417 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`searchlog elliott penis #hurr hurr < 1326052751 64557 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`searchlog poop fart < 1326052760 154632 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`searchlog `searchlog < 1326052762 622327 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but is the regex building logic accurate? < 1326052767 229221 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it is but I'm not sure. < 1326052767 703739 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1326052771 947670 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oopse < 1326052777 518803 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"congrates" < 1326052781 600893 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2012-01-08.txt:19:59:20: `searchlog `searchlog < 1326052781 757232 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2012-01-08.txt:19:59:11: `searchlog poop fart < 1326052782 553710 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"wbad" < 1326052787 832413 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no,,, < 1326052791 229945 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: maybe try not search for comment < 1326052794 959016 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`searchlog poop fart butt < 1326052795 752719 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1326052800 864222 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :`searchlog poop < 1326052803 85747 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it got the order scrombled < 1326052814 359527 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway you can use (...|...|...) for or, and then spaces provides and < 1326052815 352139 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2012-01-08.txt:19:59:54: `searchlog poop fart butt < 1326052815 510992 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-05-01.txt:20:58:53: poop CH < 1326052819 106239 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming it works. < 1326052856 549007 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`searchlog kallisti moron < 1326052863 994851 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-12-17.txt:01:58:51: kallisti: concatMap is recursive, you moron < 1326052876 725182 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: see? totally useful. < 1326052882 83213 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1326052890 297260 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`searchlog kallisti moron < 1326052897 558083 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2012-01-08.txt:20:00:56: `searchlog kallisti moron < 1326052899 302556 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess if you want actual spaces you can use \s instead < 1326052899 937475 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is exciting < 1326052903 226028 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`searchlog CakeProphet moron < 1326052910 490476 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2012-01-08.txt:20:01:43: `searchlog CakeProphet moron < 1326052919 774099 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tool of the year < 1326052919 932260 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: yes so exciting < 1326052933 444620 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`searchlog kallisti nominated tool of the year < 1326052937 983812 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but uh, does it actually work correctly? < 1326052941 80799 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is the thing that I want to know. < 1326052963 88400 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`searchlog moron kallisti < 1326052966 660803 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1326052971 55138 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2012-01-08.txt:20:00:56: `searchlog kallisti moron < 1326052975 66090 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :appears to. < 1326053038 529646 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1326053048 588997 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`searchlog a b c d e f g h i j k l m combinatiorial explosion? < 1326053054 259528 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: nooooooooo < 1326053057 861133 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`searchlog hi < 1326053074 404568 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: so many permutations... < 1326053085 167741 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1326053087 827497 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`searchlog ) < 1326053093 855823 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :grep: unmatched parentheses < 1326053094 529995 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1326053095 482489 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: noooooooo < 1326053107 632955 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :continue thinking of the terms as regexes. < 1326053113 307622 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`searchlog ( < 1326053114 100877 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they are. < 1326053116 844118 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :grep: missing ) < 1326053127 500794 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :grep excitement < 1326053133 305041 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I gotteded a "killed" when I tried the explosion in private, I was hoping for that now too. :/ < 1326053145 658934 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: *a b c d e f g h i j k l m n big-O notation < 1326053160 136715 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> permutations . words $ "a b c d e f g h i j k l m combinatorial explosion?" < 1326053161 644204 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [["a","b","c","d","e","f","g","h","i","j","k","l","m","combinatorial","expl... < 1326053172 391211 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that part was reasonably fast actually. < 1326053182 391835 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1326053186 401213 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you only evaluated the first element < 1326053191 366009 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, yes. < 1326053203 498869 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, Haskell. right. < 1326053204 608757 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`searchlog thanks kallisti < 1326053223 307781 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-12-15.txt:18:36:22: thanks to emacs. < 1326053230 900268 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: is this another +1 towards "kallisti's bad algorithms" < 1326053233 988351 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tool of the yesteryear < 1326053256 526202 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could write a book < 1326053262 599390 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`searchlogs thallisti < 1326053266 171740 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: searchlogs: not found < 1326053282 763788 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :> length . permutations . words $ "a b c d e f g h i j k l m combinatorial explosion?" < 1326053286 451813 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval-core: Time limit exceeded < 1326053290 302501 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah, it's just 1307674368000 permutations. < 1326053299 874738 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's one big quitter-bot. < 1326053317 442121 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`searchlogs core mueval exceeded limit time < 1326053320 460753 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: searchlogs: not found < 1326053355 915463 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm I wonder if it would be faster if I switched out the "|" and ".*" < 1326053408 502339 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :who will write the wrapper over searchlog < 1326053415 91615 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what will it do < 1326053419 929605 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :2012 mysteries < 1326053434 223149 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: ...I guess I could just use grep directly... < 1326053454 55374 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but why do that? < 1326053456 745486 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nih grep < 1326053458 953729 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :when there's already logs < 1326053520 8078 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :guys I bet this is the same algorithm Google uses. < 1326053546 100594 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :they should hire me so I can make the big $$$ < 1326053559 596249 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`fetch http://sprunge.us/EEVG < 1326053559 913272 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :grep (a.*b.*c)|(a.*c.*b)|(b.*a.*c)|(b.*c.*a)|(c.*a.*b)|(c.*b.*a) \approx grep a | grep b | grep c. < 1326053562 57512 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2012-01-08 20:12:41 URL:http://sprunge.us/EEVG [510] -> "EEVG" [1] < 1326053599 686529 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run mv EEVG searchlog.hs; ghc -O2 -o bin/searchlog searchlog.hs; chmod +x bin/searchlog < 1326053607 914541 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1326053610 617472 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: By the way, searchlog always gets exactly one (1) log. < 1326053617 327356 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, you map words it. < 1326053620 227843 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not concatMap words? < 1326053626 895245 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: lazy < 1326053629 593802 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I already wrote it < 1326053632 134145 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't consider using that < 1326053640 907282 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :now it's SET IN STONE < 1326053705 766566 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`searchlog mueval time limit < 1326053718 609217 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-02-03.txt:08:07:29: mueval-core: Time limit exceeded < 1326053726 87010 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what do you mean. < 1326053750 382354 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What? < 1326053753 492682 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run paste `which log` < 1326053757 131365 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.2434 < 1326053772 897411 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: why does it always get exactly one log. < 1326053773 54595 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1326053818 721695 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`Uh? < 1326053821 330191 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: Uh?: not found < 1326053822 123167 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because that's how it works. < 1326053832 240205 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what you mean. < 1326053836 864838 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? Uh? < 1326053839 350071 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, you mean like that. why is that important? that's obvious. < 1326053840 621405 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh?? ¯\(°_o)/¯ < 1326053875 768974 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: I don't understand what you mean. < 1326053895 250686 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh you neverminded that. < 1326053901 166942 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I promise I actually read this channel < 1326053908 915060 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(with psychic powers) < 1326053914 713418 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe my psychic is a little rusty. < 1326053925 231011 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? ¯\(o_°)/¯ < 1326053928 486104 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​¯\(o_°)/¯? ¯\(°_o)/¯ < 1326053930 329394 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :psychic grammar is all weird with quantum < 1326054012 691474 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: at first I thought you meant what you actually meant. Then I thought you meant the obvious statement that searchlog grabs one log entry, just as log was. Then I read the nevermind and it all made sense. < 1326054025 474578 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you cannot observe the subject and object simultaneously < 1326054053 126961 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1326054055 69346 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : kallisti: By the way, searchlog always gets exactly one (1) log. < 1326054057 491717 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/log/search term/ < 1326054068 991231 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay. < 1326054071 371927 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1326054082 220768 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but no, as past elliott discovers) < 1326054108 655759 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls bin/searchlog < 1326054112 34866 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin/searchlog < 1326054118 148482 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :searchlog should parallel for the future. < 1326054121 103278 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/searchlog < 1326054123 364357 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it should make goofy words. < 1326054124 315688 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​ELF... < 1326054126 854849 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :eek < 1326054131 415821 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: oh, parallel, that's a good idea actually. < 1326054136 435145 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think? < 1326054142 266225 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe that's slower than doing one traversal? < 1326054142 583417 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not at HackEgo speeds. < 1326054149 705552 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, not for IO-bound tasks, duh. < 1326054156 794390 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, right. < 1326054157 745164 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/log < 1326054159 213632 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: cat searchlog.hs < 1326054160 325561 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​#!/bin/sh \ cd /var/irclogs/_esoteric \ if [ "$1" ]; then \ grep -P -i -- "$1" ????-??-??.txt | shuf -n 1 \ else \ file=$(shuf -en 1 ????-??-??.txt) \ echo "$file:$(shuf -n 1 $file)" \ fi \ < 1326054165 766875 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :parallel io < 1326054169 985805 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat searchlog.hs < 1326054172 220661 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"double the fun" < 1326054173 355740 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :import System.Environment \ import System.Process \ import System.Exit \ import Control.Monad \ import Control.Applicative \ import Data.List \ \ main = do \ r <- buildRegex . permuteArgs <$> getArgs \ (_, _, _, h) <- createProcess (proc "/hackenv/bin/log" [r]) \ exitWith <$> waitForProcess h \ where \ permuteArgs = permutations . join . map words \ buildRegex = oBrackets . intercalate ".*" < 1326054242 950141 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait searchlog calls log? < 1326054248 397335 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1326054263 667638 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it builds a regex from the permutations of the search terms, and then passes that to log because I'm lazy. < 1326054264 301278 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but who calls searchlog < 1326054268 760172 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :who watches... < 1326054269 921156 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the searcmen < 1326054272 73240 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :searchmen < 1326054287 639233 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: shouldn't that be "who searches the searchmen"? < 1326054336 184677 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :searchlog efficiency of the year < 1326054342 504913 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`searchlog (elliott|Gregor) :P < 1326054354 363022 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-08-16.txt:12:52:57: (Though not many. :p) < 1326054365 243432 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: dude it's < 1326054365 898385 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dude < 1326054373 250203 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if only I had the creativity to think of search terms, then I could do all the searches < 1326054375 353004 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes dude is dude. < 1326054378 395983 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you think it should be that then you are totally not getting this whole < 1326054378 873572 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thing < 1326054389 522949 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: woah man. maybe you're right < 1326054392 261441 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I don't get the thing. < 1326054393 967690 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the thing? < 1326054394 126657 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`searchlog beeswax endomorphism excursion < 1326054404 346978 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2012-01-08.txt:20:26:34: `searchlog beeswax endomorphism excursion < 1326054408 345752 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`searchlog poop poop poop poop poop poop poop ... poop < 1326054418 538521 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: what would be a more efficient way to do that... aside from "manually" < 1326054426 522134 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Killed < 1326054448 928263 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :slaves < 1326054482 704399 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :slaves with grep < 1326054499 148117 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty swapping the | and .* made it faster but I really have no way to know that without understanding how regex is compiled. < 1326054503 951187 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*pretty sure < 1326054543 62288 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a|b|c).*(b|c|a).* ... seems... simpler to execute < 1326054557 648444 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would probably be faster if log didn't use -P < 1326054558 124179 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :uuh waht < 1326054577 21723 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but then I wouldn't have perl regex < 1326054580 126779 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1326054650 895040 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the point of building (a|b|c).*(b|c|a).* ... < 1326054687 734853 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :as opposed to? < 1326054722 364790 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would seem to give also results like a.*a.* ... ? < 1326054738 448701 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :((a|b|c).*)+, or even better (a|b|c).*, or even better, (a|b|c) < 1326054773 63250 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I'm not getting the magical perl regex magic < 1326054774 847322 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. no guarantee there is any b or c in it... < 1326054779 732065 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are those funky things < 1326054797 87428 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah there's no guarantee and all of the permuatations are identical < 1326054799 552177 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh right. < 1326054809 682048 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc etc < 1326054855 203394 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: the purpose is to do an and search instead of or search < 1326054869 226107 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes but it doesn't < 1326054872 778527 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you did it wrong :( < 1326054873 95170 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1326054892 329819 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes with the swapped version < 1326054895 674055 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other one works correctly < 1326054931 550174 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`fetch http://sprunge.us/ZLCT < 1326054935 476937 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2012-01-08 20:35:35 URL:http://sprunge.us/ZLCT [510] -> "ZLCT" [1] < 1326054941 432739 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :not as cool as wbad < 1326054951 831712 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run mv ZLCT searchlog.hs; ghc -O2 -o bin/searchlog searchlog.hs; chmod +x bin/searchlog < 1326054960 724856 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1326054972 769676 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forgot the case where it could be a.*a.*a and such < 1326055046 684532 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`searchlog useful again < 1326055069 135474 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2008-03-29.txt:20:06:49: W ('television antenna') pops a vector off the stack, then a value. If the cell at that vector (plus the storage offset) in Funge-Space (a la g) is equal to that value, nothing happens. If the cell in space is less than the value, it pushes the value and the vector (inverted) back onto the stack, and backs up the IP (subtracts the IP's delta from it's position, sort of a 'wait to < 1326055083 957471 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :success < 1326055089 270820 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it say < 1326055089 905885 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :useful < 1326055110 687111 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :its a mystery < 1326055137 199439 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no TOPIC #esoteric :Official revolting channel of the inverse femtobarn stupid topic change CP violation, the original Trilogy: A new PHP | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1326055157 340114 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see a useful < 1326055166 200501 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps it gets cut off? < 1326055188 828685 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`searchlog mueval limit core < 1326055200 640047 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-08-07.txt:06:40:12: mueval-core: Time limit exceeded < 1326055202 755403 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't see an again either so i'll look and see what the rest was < 1326055217 704143 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: good topic < 1326055234 90720 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :try again' condition, useful mainly in Concurrent Funge.) If the cell in s < 1326055240 391477 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :has both again and useful!!! success!!! < 1326055252 184480 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is currently 192.322581 times better than kallisti. < 1326055258 621809 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: thx < 1326055420 135575 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what's the name for that style of C variable naming where you append file names and data structure names to things? < 1326055451 929097 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1326055460 985225 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :like.... < 1326055467 887380 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CPython_PyObject_blah_blah < 1326055480 809705 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically making up for a lack of namespaces by hardcoded them into variable names. < 1326055509 38321 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has a name. < 1326055540 297251 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hungarian notation < 1326055545 741456 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not it. < 1326055570 304293 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: that's not appending. < 1326055711 633102 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hungarian notation is responsible for the hInstance lpClassName dwStyle -like Windows API parameter/structure-member names. < 1326055751 950343 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1326055754 172655 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nevermind < 1326055833 183853 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Systems Hungarian, rather. :p < 1326055844 655201 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that Apps is any better. < 1326055954 707555 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : Forcing myself to use a fold on a tricky thing makes me understand it better, I think < 1326055957 847519 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Have you considered using a fold... ON FOLDS THEMSELVES? < 1326056016 662163 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Can you implement foldr as a foldr??? < 1326056041 322147 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :foldr f z = foldr (\a r -> f a (r ())) (\() -> z) < 1326056053 428734 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Whoa, man. That is, like, so meta. < 1326056057 685625 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Using a fold ON FOLDS THEMSELVES => http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=4&p=000944 < 1326056106 773881 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I don't get it. < 1326056116 102572 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably because it's that awful comic. < 1326056150 169385 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not that awful comic, actually. < 1326056159 423460 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the other awful comic. < 1326056174 328048 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION helpful. < 1326056181 410434 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other awful comic that isn't either of those other two awful comics < 1326056182 402265 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1326056189 225823 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's that awful comic, then? < 1326056189 382147 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :keep it straight < 1326056204 401476 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: No! It's the other awful comic. < 1326056210 445873 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: Dude, don't be, like, so intolerant, man. < 1326056214 458555 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: s/That's/What's/ < 1326056235 356690 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: The comic you're thinking of is the one at mspaintadventures.com, but the one fizzie linked is the one at mspaintadventures.com. < 1326056237 818486 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can i tolerate awful comics being other awful comics < 1326056242 271911 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is that tolerable < 1326056242 748236 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how < 1326056266 702589 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: keep it straight < 1326056273 66025 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing is tolerable, really < 1326056291 619574 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: did i oops a word < 1326056294 159128 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1326056301 348244 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :everyone oopsedes a word < 1326056301 985219 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes < 1326056309 121421 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry to any awful webcomics i may have offended < 1326056310 712980 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: not true i'm sitting right here tolerating < 1326056311 863792 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: 0 is well within the tolerances. < 1326056313 132935 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :its ok < 1326056313 654862 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: station v3 < 1326056318 99542 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it really < 1326056318 418757 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1326056319 687681 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :for station v3 < 1326056322 751386 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is anything really < 1326056323 108369 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1326056324 734863 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :for station v3 < 1326056349 538852 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: aum < 1326056452 209569 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :a special shame set aside for station v3 < 1326056470 163373 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :station v3 shame < 1326056508 522973 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shame station v3 < 1326056803 625909 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix$('0':).tail.(<**>[id,chr.xor 1.ord]) < 1326056805 337977 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "01101001100101101001011001101001100101100110100101101001100101101001011001... < 1326056889 517219 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like how you can't tell what the Applicative combinators do from their types. < 1326056923 870922 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ty (<*>) < 1326056924 703104 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (f :: * -> *) a b. (Applicative f) => f (a -> b) -> f a -> f b < 1326056925 572736 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ty (<**>) < 1326056926 29196 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Programmers are limited by the hardware. Computers work by repeating certain steps over and over again. They can only follow certain instructions. With the sheer randomness of crumpled paper, there really is no way to come up with an algorithm that accounts for every crease, nook, and cranny. You could painstakingly program something that would evaluate a single unique piece of paper, but there's no way to make a general method." < 1326056926 364180 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (f :: * -> *) a b. (Applicative f) => f a -> f (a -> b) -> f b < 1326056928 902861 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :...most of them do their actions left to right, no? < 1326056936 63910 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But is (<**>) = flip (<*>)? No! < 1326056940 207886 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: *all < 1326056948 427349 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, but so what? < 1326056957 135414 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, is this for OCR or something? < 1326056963 280190 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Consistent rule and the rest is left up to types? Gosh, how awful. < 1326056965 698254 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and it doesn't make any sense < 1326056966 652021 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, left-to-right is racist. < 1326056970 368388 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no, it's about crumpled paper, and that's why i quoted it < 1326056984 685042 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what does crumpled paper have to do with computers? < 1326057003 335913 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: They (computers) can't get over it (crumpled paper). < 1326057012 316720 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Or so I read it. < 1326057014 898824 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ah okay. Right < 1326057029 22704 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: no, racist is the pun i briefly considered responding to that with < 1326057030 94697 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just that they can't. Want to break a computer? Crumpled paper. < 1326057068 1506 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, is there a shorter way to write chr.xor 1.ord < 1326057080 54501 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm... < 1326057083 109485 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :instance Num Char < 1326057083 744008 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are you doing :P < 1326057085 491406 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :xor 1 < 1326057088 903275 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ty xor < 1326057089 697028 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Bits a) => a -> a -> a < 1326057090 848165 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I made a list (good = unsafeCoerce good : good) then regretted it < 1326057093 305533 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/Num/Bits/ < 1326057098 944454 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: that's < 1326057100 943383 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is that < 1326057104 345707 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :good < 1326057108 209165 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t xor.chr < 1326057109 3663 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (Bits Char) < 1326057109 164014 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use of `xor' at :1:0-2 < 1326057109 321181 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Possible fix: add an instance declaration for (Bits Char) < 1326057126 174011 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude Unsafe.Coerce> let good = unsafeCoerce good : good :: [[[[()]]]] < 1326057126 490563 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude Unsafe.Coerce> take 10 good < 1326057126 647141 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[[[(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),() < 1326057126 647343 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :,(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),() < 1326057130 737477 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :,(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),() < 1326057131 690475 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, there's no such instance. < 1326057135 733889 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :,(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),() < 1326057140 854071 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :,(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(), < 1326057143 756612 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: good < 1326057145 858765 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: are you playing anagolf :P < 1326057146 334643 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Maybe in another couple of lines we'll understand. < 1326057151 19465 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why did you stop pasting?! < 1326057158 380075 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Because I don't want you to understand. < 1326057190 8219 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-( < 1326057205 289535 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: just golfing some frequent one-liners a bit differently < 1326057221 865843 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I wrote over 10 paragraphs about monads without a single analogy! < 1326057224 442002 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do I get a medal? < 1326057267 741340 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I think you get kicked out of #haskell for life. < 1326057282 911997 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is even better than a medal, as far as quality-of-life goes. < 1326057293 789695 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What were you writing about monads? < 1326057323 976089 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> show<=[id,(1-)]) < 1326057325 564879 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "01101001100101101001011001101001100101100110100101101001100101101001011001... < 1326057327 672838 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/8777216/how-do-you-identify-monadic-design-patterns < 1326057334 41911 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: The worst-titled question ever. < 1326057338 236192 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: (range ((minBound :: Char),(maxBound :: Char)) !!) . xor 1 . index ((minBound :: Char),(maxBound :: Char)) OH WAIT you said *shorter*. < 1326057358 36061 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't need those ::Chars. < 1326057362 840224 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swats fizzie -----### < 1326057364 785425 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That URL doesn't make me want to click on it. < 1326057367 682165 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src Ix < 1326057368 54 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :class (Ord a) => Ix a where < 1326057368 158960 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : range :: (a,a) -> [a] < 1326057368 315236 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : index :: (a,a) -> a -> Int < 1326057368 315335 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : inRange :: (a,a) -> a -> Bool < 1326057368 315380 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : rangeSize :: (a,a) -> Int < 1326057379 809507 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: How does (range x !!) differ from index x. < 1326057384 658330 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: It's not that bad. < 1326057401 941322 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it got shorter by using integers and show<=<, anyhow < 1326057418 512553 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: pretty < 1326057426 845301 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> show<=[id,(1-)]) < 1326057428 314237 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "00101100110100101101001100101100110100110010110100101100110100101101001100... < 1326057436 395632 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmph < 1326057442 32466 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's this supposed to be? < 1326057444 525371 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there must be some way to eliminate that... < 1326057459 766317 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would read the source that generates it but I don't feel like it. < 1326057466 522675 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Too long. < 1326057473 817959 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: thue-morse sequence < 1326057485 849997 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: How about look-and-say? < 1326057507 672765 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Isn't it the other way around? I mean, < 1326057508 350204 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ty ((range ('a','b') !!), index ('a','b')) < 1326057509 462068 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Int -> Char, Char -> Int) < 1326057514 420305 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that. < 1326057537 142745 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Oh, yes. < 1326057571 594711 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> group "112333" < 1326057572 586138 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ["11","2","333"] < 1326057575 640111 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i dabbled with that yesterday and didn't get satisfied < 1326057587 668820 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle (a -> b) -> a -> (a,b) < 1326057588 144790 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Monad.Writer.Class listens :: MonadWriter w m => (w -> b) -> m a -> m (a, b) < 1326057588 300946 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Monad.Writer.Lazy listens :: MonadWriter w m => (w -> b) -> m a -> m (a, b) < 1326057588 301139 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Monad.Writer.Strict listens :: MonadWriter w m => (w -> b) -> m a -> m (a, b) < 1326057593 267750 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t groupBy < 1326057594 378840 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (a -> a -> Bool) -> [a] -> [[a]] < 1326057598 432432 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> group "112333" < 1326057599 266050 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ["11","2","333"] < 1326057606 417075 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (length &&& head) group "112333" < 1326057607 368684 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `t1 -> t' < 1326057607 528590 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred type `(GHC.... < 1326057608 4335 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (length &&& head) $ group "112333" < 1326057608 798497 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : (3,"11") < 1326057613 486331 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1326057613 963617 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1326057617 691365 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (length &&& head) <$> group "112333" < 1326057618 526021 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [(2,'1'),(1,'2'),(3,'3')] < 1326057638 916759 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (\xs -> show (length x) ++ head x) <$> group "112333" < 1326057639 707878 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `[a]' < 1326057639 866850 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred type `SimpleRef... < 1326057644 187329 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (\xs -> show (length x) ++ [head x]) <$> group "112333" < 1326057644 980360 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `[a]' < 1326057645 138559 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred type `SimpleRef... < 1326057646 962931 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1326057647 439379 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1326057650 135765 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (\x -> show (length x) ++ [head x]) <$> group "112333" < 1326057651 604406 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ["21","12","33"] < 1326057670 536197 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> liftA2 (++) (show . length) head <$> group "112333" < 1326057671 376262 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `[GHC.Types.Char]' < 1326057671 534899 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred ty... < 1326057681 8671 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> liftA2 (++) (show . length) (take 1) <$> group "112333" < 1326057682 370996 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ["21","12","33"] < 1326057706 811380 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> concatMap((++)<$>show.length<*>take 1).group$"112333" < 1326057708 277848 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "211233" < 1326057710 873741 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> join.map((++)<$>show.length<*>take 1).group$"112333" < 1326057712 458585 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "211233" < 1326057724 86262 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> iterate$join.map((++)<$>show.length<*>take 1).group < 1326057725 38225 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Overlapping instances for GHC.Show.Show < 1326057725 196841 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ([GHC.... < 1326057726 667261 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t iterate$join.map((++)<$>show.length<*>take 1).group < 1326057727 462044 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :[Char] -> [[Char]] < 1326057737 452982 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (iterate$join.map((++)<$>show.length<*>take 1).group)"1" < 1326057739 38359 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ["1","11","21","1211","111221","312211","13112221","1113213211","3113121113... < 1326057747 754775 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (join.iterate$join.map((++)<$>show.length<*>take 1).group)"1" < 1326057748 550048 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `a -> a' against inferred type `[a]' < 1326057756 758255 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> join.(iterate$join.map((++)<$>show.length<*>take 1).group)"1" < 1326057757 417808 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `[a]' < 1326057757 735876 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred type `GHC.Types... < 1326057758 726225 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> join.(iterate$join.map((++)<$>show.length<*>take 1).group)$"1" < 1326057761 464325 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "11121121111122131221113112221111321321131131211131221132113111231131122111... < 1326057764 317434 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> join$(iterate$join.map((++)<$>show.length<*>take 1).group)"1" < 1326057766 101260 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "11121121111122131221113112221111321321131131211131221132113111231131122111... < 1326057769 907099 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (>>=liftA2(++)(show.length)(take 1)).group$"112333" < 1326057770 902536 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that's not bad imo < 1326057771 419865 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "211233" < 1326057777 323051 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: oh, very good < 1326057782 793768 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: look-and-say isn't usually joined together like that < 1326057787 975503 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well ok < 1326057799 315175 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> iterate(>>=((++)<$>show.length<*>take 1).group))"1" < 1326057800 149638 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : : parse error on input `)' < 1326057802 335196 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> iterate(>>=((++)<$>show.length<*>take 1).group)"1" < 1326057803 128661 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `GHC.Types.Char' < 1326057803 289145 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred type... < 1326057809 712326 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: i think liftA2 is longer < 1326057821 485241 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably. < 1326057833 304198 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> iterate((>>=(++)<$>show.length<*>take 1).group)"1" < 1326057834 731927 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ["1","11","21","1211","111221","312211","13112221","1113213211","3113121113... < 1326057851 135467 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> iterate((>>=(show.length)++(take 1)).group)"1" < 1326057852 669455 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ["1","11","21","1211","111221","312211","13112221","1113213211","3113121113... < 1326057853 461366 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> iterate(join.:lift[show.length,take 1]<= *) -> * -> *' against `?? -> ? -> *' < 1326057859 443512 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1326057865 472132 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was it i did yesterday < 1326057869 265584 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> iterate((>>=show.length++take 1).group)"1" < 1326057870 738853 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ["1","11","21","1211","111221","312211","13112221","1113213211","3113121113... < 1326057873 119009 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :awesome < 1326057895 996852 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :duh caleskell ++ < 1326057903 945286 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1326057916 447681 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I THINK YOU MEAN caleskell++ < 1326057921 39186 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@karma+ caleskell < 1326057921 357058 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :caleskell's karma raised to 2. < 1326057931 142573 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> iterate(group>=>show.length++take 1)"1" < 1326057932 570692 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ["1","11","21","1211","111221","312211","13112221","1113213211","3113121113... < 1326057937 434098 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i win < 1326057948 194625 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn i was going to do that :P < 1326057979 922202 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: we found another use of (>=>) < 1326057997 369995 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: the nice part is that it's still easy to understand < 1326058007 694864 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact it's even in the right order for reading naturally and all that < 1326058024 739672 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: More like a reason (>=>) shouldn't be in the stdlib. < 1326058040 198476 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And by stdlib I mean stdlib.h. < 1326058077 976524 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (>=>) < 1326058078 929741 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a (m :: * -> *) b c. (Monad m) => (a -> m b) -> (b -> m c) -> a -> m c < 1326058084 801396 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1326058114 236346 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kleisli composition < 1326058176 313279 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah < 1326058217 10652 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That helped? < 1326058235 465721 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i conjecture that iterate(group>=>show.length++take 1)"1" is the shortest caleskell look and say prorgam :P < 1326058238 161127 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :prorgam < 1326058242 878989 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, somewhat, I have read about that before at some point. I did have to look up on wikipedia to refresh the details though < 1326058261 768889 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"SumaMoito-Z2 has been proven Turing complete by simulation of Bitwise Cyclic Tag. The details required to construct the interpreter can be found in the log of #esoteric for 8 January, 2012." < 1326058262 600236 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :llo < 1326058263 138618 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :night → < 1326058263 377440 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1326058270 432607 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's just < 1326058275 10309 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(f >=> g) x = f x >>= g < 1326058322 615626 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1326058358 181670 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, not sure why they would add a special name for that. It doesn't really save that much typing < 1326058379 769920 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it has nice theoretical properties < 1326058385 5561 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. the monad laws are just < 1326058386 470888 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it makes the monad laws so much nicer. < 1326058389 406368 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"return is identity for kleisli composition" < 1326058390 444283 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and < 1326058394 458398 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: CURSES < 1326058394 617140 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"kleisli composition is associative" < 1326058401 949512 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah < 1326058422 580022 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also it saves so much typing??? < 1326058427 419763 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : > iterate(group>=>show.length++take 1)"1" < 1326058428 371237 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so much < 1326058441 19973 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what other nice sequences are there... < 1326058458 748506 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, damn those mathematicians. We shouldn't let them design computer languages. They make crazy things like haskell. Leave it to engineers instead, then you get sensible things like VHDL, ADA and C < 1326058480 429791 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@quote kmc mathematicians < 1326058480 589225 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc says: Haskell isn't really designed by mathematicians. it's designed by people who programmers would consider to be mathematicians and mathematicians would consider to be programmers < 1326058491 298154 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1326058517 491321 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :1echo a < 1326058518 958210 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo a < 1326058523 44201 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :a < 1326058530 245957 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@remember `echo blah blah blah < 1326058530 404394 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good to know. < 1326058533 618786 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@quote `echo < 1326058534 153638 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo says: blah blah blah < 1326058537 524993 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :says: blah blah blah < 1326058537 681008 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as a pascal,basic,c,asm bred coder(not saying i know any of them well or that i can use them properly), i am highly interested in what i can learn from the mathematical programmers < 1326058547 361239 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@forget `echo blah blah blah < 1326058547 519778 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done. < 1326058555 956241 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hence why i keep ramming against the berlin wall of programming < 1326058574 466667 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i shouldn't beg for quotation in that way < 1326058621 253738 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-162-128-110.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326058789 460928 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION decides to encourage non-begging behaviour by doing nothing. < 1326058817 787947 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, so the people who designed Haskell are almost programmers and almost mathematicians. < 1326058822 272617 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ive been analyzing myself a bit < 1326058827 850006 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle (a -> a) -> a -> [a] < 1326058828 167582 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude iterate :: (a -> a) -> a -> [a] < 1326058828 326249 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.List iterate :: (a -> a) -> a -> [a] < 1326058828 484682 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Generics.Schemes everywhere :: (forall a. Data a => a -> a) -> (forall a. Data a => a -> a) < 1326058851 436340 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: did you really need to hoogle that < 1326058857 866510 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. < 1326058864 686823 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its a bit like bush writing a heartfelt essay on why he was president for so many terms < 1326058866 115020 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You should be in #haskell. < 1326058869 356221 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was hoping for some almost-hits < 1326058869 831505 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It makes one happier. < 1326058876 600110 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle+ < 1326058876 797797 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Generics.Schemes everywhere' :: (forall a. Data a => a -> a) -> (forall a. Data a => a -> a) < 1326058876 963795 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude until :: (a -> Bool) -> (a -> a) -> a -> a < 1326058877 120035 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude map :: (a -> b) -> [a] -> [b] < 1326058891 500331 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was thinking of until < 1326058900 509483 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I was going to remind you of until. < 1326058901 304592 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i doubt that helps < 1326058907 194323 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION would have made 600 SO rep today if not for that pesky rep cap. < 1326058912 191982 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: FSVO happier? < 1326058918 452632 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: 2 is so many now? :P < 1326058929 874487 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is < 1326058940 405973 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Just imagine talking to people who "just want to convert an Integer to a ByteString"! < 1326058945 530197 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle+ < 1326058945 689088 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.List map :: (a -> b) -> [a] -> [b] < 1326058945 848308 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.OldException mapException :: (Exception -> Exception) -> a -> a < 1326058946 5453 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude ($) :: (a -> b) -> a -> b < 1326058947 438570 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: unsafeCoerce < 1326058959 48449 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Funny, that's the first answer that was given. < 1326058972 640394 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Followed by pack . return . fromInteger. < 1326058973 314342 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why are SO rep useful? < 1326058975 809348 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: in this i am reminded of an einstein quote about having hand on a hot stove versus sitting next to a pretty girl < 1326058988 485355 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: They aren't useful. However, they are SO useful. < 1326058991 340577 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Why is life useful? < 1326058998 848504 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is humanity useful? < 1326058999 324257 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it isn't < 1326059003 762322 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is chocolate useful? < 1326059011 720782 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not at all, we just pollute and such < 1326059014 932928 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So to answer your question, SO rep is useful because it's delicious and made of cocoa beans. < 1326059021 82785 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :FSVO "just". < 1326059022 865710 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have to answer all these questions with other questions: useful in what way? < 1326059034 284605 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, also chocolate isn't useful either < 1326059040 965326 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so rep is useful because it pollutes and such < 1326059042 158074 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: Yeah, girls just can't compare to the magic of a stove. < 1326059044 371355 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix.("1":).map$group>=>show.length++take 1 --just a bit too long < 1326059045 204567 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `a -> a' < 1326059045 363585 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred type `[[GHC.... < 1326059051 894771 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and wrong besides :P < 1326059067 273898 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t fix.("1":).map < 1326059068 226540 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `a -> a' < 1326059068 386363 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred type `[[Char]]' < 1326059068 542538 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : In the first argument of `(.)', namely `("1" :)' < 1326059068 542740 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"who's been a naughty stove?" < 1326059080 830189 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ooh what about my favourite sequence < 1326059082 997841 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :can stoves be naughty < 1326059088 547430 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t fix.("1":).:map < 1326059089 22864 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: the self-avoidant sequence < 1326059089 340535 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :([Char] -> [Char]) -> [[Char]] < 1326059092 717852 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*avoiding i think < 1326059094 345373 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: By the way, is it bad that my reaction to a lot of questions in #haskell is "step 1: Learn how to, you know, think"? < 1326059096 794867 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix.("1":).:map$group>=>show.length++take 1 --just a bit too long < 1326059098 222785 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ["1","11","21","1211","111221","312211","13112221","1113213211","3113121113... < 1326059101 992904 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: during certain erotic fantasy < 1326059103 192015 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that would solve so many problems. < 1326059125 105425 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: where you build a markov model of increasing order of your own output so far < 1326059133 357659 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and output the least likely next bit < 1326059139 913119 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: okay < 1326059140 236693 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what the self-avoidant sequence? < 1326059143 483715 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ^ < 1326059146 919194 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1326059156 242271 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it /sounds/ like it should have a conceptually simple definition, but the one I implemented just did the obvious (reconstruct a markov model each step)... < 1326059157 579240 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that sounds interesting < 1326059169 896913 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it basically produces random-looking output < 1326059175 293654 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know if it's "really" (pseudo)random < 1326059177 78079 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I figured out the Proxy monad first in the digraph category not in Haskell, but look in the document for Proxy type and found they defined the monad there too. But then, there can be Coproxy comonad, data Coproxy x; and everything has to be made undefined but that is OK since there will be no input value so there can be no output value either (it should be an empty case block, but Haskell doesn't support that!) < 1326059183 742958 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the process i thought up a game based on hoarding. < 1326059188 243470 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, probably isn't. < 1326059207 502925 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well you can consider it a reasonable mathematical /definition/ of a random sequence < 1326059208 493276 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway wouldn't it end up cycling a lot? < 1326059220 538497 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you walk around a single screen maze collecting randomly timed icons which unlock new randomly generated maze levels which can be played by a menu... < 1326059220 694616 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least, it's a definition of a sequence that you can't predict locally < 1326059223 293416 :atrapado!~rdrp@95.169.240.66 NICK :atrapad < 1326059226 310242 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you can predict it < 1326059229 302896 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not with a markov model :) < 1326059231 568140 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: nope < 1326059237 915901 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why you increase the order each step < 1326059238 712546 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the idea is that you have more fun collecting the levels than actually playing them < 1326059240 18905 :atrapado!~insekt@95.169.240.66 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326059243 710446 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah < 1326059252 244611 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: :D < 1326059256 884314 :atrapad!~rdrp@95.169.240.66 QUIT :Quit: Bye < 1326059265 268167 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION just assumes oerjan is working on that sequence. < 1326059271 952737 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :argumentum ad naivety < 1326059286 754561 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :5 minutes in the player says to himself, dear god what am i doing? < 1326059287 70922 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: NOPE < 1326059295 399853 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: :( < 1326059310 684248 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: agda supports empty pattern-matching :) < 1326059321 848725 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what about the paper-folding sequence < 1326059332 711826 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, which one is that? < 1326059370 386764 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:28:30 In the book "Real World Haskell", I found the the following declaration: instance NFData BS.ByteString where rnf _ = () ! In my opinion, rnf does nothing! I don't understand how the argument of rnf will be reduced to "normal form". Any idea? < 1326059376 578932 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Hey, a reason to dislike RWH more! < 1326059383 616027 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regular_paperfolding_sequence < 1326059395 865503 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Well, I am glad they fixed that! But still, they should also fix GHC to support empty case blocks < 1326059396 499455 :atrapado!~insekt@95.169.240.66 PRIVMSG #esoteric :please can someone review my proof of that SumaMoito-N is Turing-complete? http://esolangs.org/wiki/SumaMoito#Computational_class < 1326059422 416818 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Obviously that excalamation mark is just moved over by 7 characters. < 1326059426 903478 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :EXCALAMATION! < 1326059445 761027 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, nice < 1326059446 435707 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, if it was 7 characters to the left it would make sense. < 1326059470 766149 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I wonder if there is an irregular paperfolding sequence < 1326059502 756987 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :atrapado: It's correct, yes. < 1326059507 549132 :atrapado!~insekt@95.169.240.66 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, good < 1326059512 326357 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :N is a pretty trivial extension of Z2. < 1326059535 692858 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you sure the decrements are the same though? < 1326059541 985737 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought N made the value the same when underflowing. < 1326059545 317446 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, Z2 does to. < 1326059546 110882 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :too. < 1326059559 777189 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it doesn't have decrement. < 1326059561 715934 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't notice that :) < 1326059582 67568 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, assuming the decrement function is right, it's correct. I think you can make it simpler though. < 1326059583 654685 :atrapado!~insekt@95.169.240.66 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am not ocmpletely sure that it is correct, elliott < 1326059585 558907 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :atrapado, what about Z1? < 1326059592 59950 :atrapado!~insekt@95.169.240.66 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Z1... < 1326059596 77079 :atrapado!~insekt@95.169.240.66 PRIVMSG #esoteric :more complicated < 1326059599 90618 :atrapado!~insekt@95.169.240.66 PRIVMSG #esoteric :negative values < 1326059601 905976 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1326059627 334134 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :atrapado, also that mapping from Z2 to N seems trivial < 1326059628 926758 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :atrapado: tmp1; out; tmp1+; while (tmp1 != in) { out+; tmp1+ } < 1326059634 436402 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That decrements out into in. < 1326059635 228292 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :why are there even two languages? < 1326059636 339131 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er. < 1326059638 6443 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :In into out. < 1326059640 307514 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :out = in - 1 < 1326059649 833940 :atrapado!~insekt@95.169.240.66 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if it is 0 ? < 1326059664 198365 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :atrapado: Oh, it doesn't halt. But that's easy... < 1326059682 13811 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :atrapado: tmp1; out; tmp1+; while (in != out) { while (tmp1 != in) { out+; tmp1+ } } < 1326059697 105581 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t zap < 1326059698 97297 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `zap' < 1326059700 991016 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t zapp < 1326059701 983700 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `zapp' < 1326059706 97574 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1326059725 727096 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :zap? < 1326059737 924188 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :just zipWith id < 1326059752 944776 :atrapado!~insekt@95.169.240.66 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do not understand fully your algorithm, elliott , but do not doubt of its correcness.... < 1326059761 717657 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, why would you call that zap? < 1326059764 575435 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :atrapado: Well, it's basically < 1326059768 340824 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t zipWith id < 1326059769 452409 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall b c. [b -> c] -> [b] -> [c] < 1326059771 237604 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :atrapado: for (int i = 1; i < in; i++) out++ < 1326059780 959467 :yiyus!1242712427@je.je.je QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1326059784 168525 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :atrapado: Since i starts at 1, the loop executes (in-1) times, rather than in as it would if it started at 0. < 1326059786 483383 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: because it's <*> for ZipList < 1326059800 32165 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I see. Not sure why it would be called zap still < 1326059802 18157 :atrapado!~insekt@95.169.240.66 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1326059806 382419 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :atrapado: The while (in != out) thing is just a trick: out starts as 0, so if in == 0, then the whole thing is skipped. If it's not, then we know that at the end of the inner loop, out = in - 1. < 1326059807 851143 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So out != in. < 1326059817 292899 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's equivalent to if (in != 0). < 1326059822 172277 :atrapado!~insekt@95.169.240.66 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1326059827 725766 :atrapado!~insekt@95.169.240.66 PRIVMSG #esoteric :more clear to me < 1326059836 379477 :atrapado!~insekt@95.169.240.66 PRIVMSG #esoteric :good < 1326059870 672373 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Disclaimer: Writing code like this is bad for your health.) < 1326059884 572160 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: because (<*>) = ap < 1326059889 874860 :atrapado!~insekt@95.169.240.66 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it is itself obfuscated < 1326059894 519280 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, oh, right < 1326059911 521642 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: APply < 1326059938 471795 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t app < 1326059939 425546 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (a :: * -> * -> *) b c. (ArrowApply a) => a (a b c, b) c < 1326059983 756817 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t app loop < 1326059984 713637 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `a (b, d) (c, d) -> a b c' < 1326059984 872910 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred type `(b1 -> c1, b1)' < 1326059985 29178 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Expected type: (a (b, d) (c, d) -> a b c) -> t < 1326059987 300670 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t loop app < 1326059988 254914 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (a :: * -> * -> *) d c. (ArrowApply a, ArrowLoop a) => a (a d (c, d)) c < 1326059996 926307 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: :D < 1326060008 654193 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> loop app (\x -> (42, x)) < 1326060009 490072 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 42 < 1326060012 472845 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> loop app (\x -> (42, 1+x)) < 1326060013 265961 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 42 < 1326060018 576441 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> loop app (\x -> (x, 1:x)) < 1326060019 354761 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,... < 1326060023 43498 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> loop app (\x -> (2:x, 1:x)) < 1326060023 877875 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [2,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,... < 1326060026 576271 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's awesome < 1326060033 226889 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you get control over the final value, sort of < 1326060049 848896 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix.interleave$cycle[1,0] < 1326060051 554182 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [1,1,0,1,1,0,0,1,1,1,0,0,1,0,0,1,1,1,0,1,1,0,0,0,1,1,0,0,1,0,0,1,1,1,0,1,1,... < 1326060052 347620 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t loop < 1326060053 166542 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (a :: * -> * -> *) b d c. (ArrowLoop a) => a (b, d) (c, d) -> a b c < 1326060056 220154 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1326060057 170231 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t app < 1326060058 122484 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (a :: * -> * -> *) b c. (ArrowApply a) => a (a b c, b) c < 1326060058 915031 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well that was easy :P < 1326060061 978852 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: and elegant < 1326060067 400679 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(haven't really used arrows) < 1326060083 458586 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t loop arr < 1326060084 330406 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `(b, d)' < 1326060084 489443 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred type `b1 -> c' < 1326060084 645914 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Expected type: (b, d) -> (c1, d) < 1326060086 78318 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :aww < 1326060089 569263 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t arr loop < 1326060090 402868 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (a :: * -> * -> *) b d c (a1 :: * -> * -> *). (ArrowLoop a, Arrow a1) => a1 (a (b, d) (c, d)) (a b c) < 1326060102 171534 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t arr app < 1326060103 126229 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall b c (a :: * -> * -> *). (Arrow a) => a (b -> c, b) c < 1326060107 396133 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1326060108 192045 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t app < 1326060109 182919 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (a :: * -> * -> *) b c. (ArrowApply a) => a (a b c, b) c < 1326060112 56192 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1326060121 694757 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: once i remembered interleave, yeah < 1326060142 301297 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t arr < 1326060143 134480 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall b c (a :: * -> * -> *). (Arrow a) => (b -> c) -> a b c < 1326060153 763414 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what are arrows for? < 1326060165 297302 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t loop < 1326060166 97333 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (a :: * -> * -> *) b d c. (ArrowLoop a) => a (b, d) (c, d) -> a b c < 1326060170 596714 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(apart from pointing people and shooting them) < 1326060207 580230 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: arrows < 1326060214 992626 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're like monads, except not, and more static < 1326060215 674164 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes, what are they used for < 1326060219 293503 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1326060220 880341 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :things < 1326060223 560687 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're not very nice < 1326060235 687754 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: do i have to build the self-avoiding sequence :( < 1326060236 481511 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so why does haskell have them? < 1326060240 409471 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :if they are not very nice < 1326060284 172707 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : they're like monads, except not, and more static < 1326060292 824979 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never did get arrows. < 1326060334 450346 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like much the Arrow class in Haskell so I made up my own class; there is two classes, one is the functor from one category to another, the other one is the other four things in the Arrow class. < 1326060371 242180 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well, they're not *all* that unnice. < 1326060371 736392 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you can also change to use a different type other than (,) type. Which makes ArrowChoice not needed since instead, it is the arrow for the dual category. < 1326060384 498884 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, right. So why should someone use them? < 1326060406 237237 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If they want to. Or if someone else already did and they have to live with it. < 1326060425 97227 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so there is really nothing they are better at than, for example, monads? < 1326060451 229659 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :They are different things! < 1326060459 302141 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: There are arrows that are not (or should not be) monads. < 1326060464 588825 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay < 1326060482 428215 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that is the "except not" bit then < 1326060498 528279 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t loop < 1326060499 519326 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (a :: * -> * -> *) b d c. (ArrowLoop a) => a (b, d) (c, d) -> a b c < 1326060554 8303 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I TAKE IT THAT'S A YES < 1326060556 627249 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, night → < 1326060556 825525 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, if the category is the Kleisli category of some monad of (->) then it should make the monad. And, also coKleisli categories to make comonad < 1326060581 867179 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (init &&& last) . take 2 [False,False,True,True] < 1326060582 541982 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `[a]' < 1326060582 700931 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred type `GHC.Bool.... < 1326060585 876838 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (init &&& last) . take 3 $ [False,False,True,True] < 1326060587 403448 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ([False,False],True) < 1326060658 30109 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map ((init &&& last) . take 3) . inits $ [False,False,True,True] < 1326060659 458504 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [(*Exception: Prelude.init: empty list < 1326060662 116841 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :o_O < 1326060662 559314 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1326060671 368387 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map ((init &&& last) . take 3) . tails $ [False,False,True,True] < 1326060672 995541 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [([False,False],True),([False,True],True),([True],True),([],True),(*Excepti... < 1326060699 61151 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map (init &&& last) . takeWhile ((==3).length) . map (take 3) . tails $ [False,False,True,True] < 1326060700 647782 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [([False,False],True),([False,True],True)] < 1326060710 716645 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: SEE I'VE LIKE HALF WRITTEN IT FOR YOU ALREADY < 1326060718 53577 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i just cannot find much elegance in repeatedly building markov models. < 1326060732 869120 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: the idea was to come up with a more elegant expression of it than that :P < 1326060736 277969 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t M.takeListWith < 1326060737 229316 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Couldn't find qualified module. < 1326060741 710932 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t M.fromListWith < 1326060742 591420 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a k. (Ord k) => (a -> a -> a) -> [(k, a)] -> M.Map k a < 1326060774 645900 :yiyus!1242712427@je.je.je JOIN :#esoteric < 1326060818 462590 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ok how about chaitin's omega :P < 1326060823 577733 :MSleep!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net NICK :MDude < 1326060825 646660 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1326060833 496476 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :should be a breeze < 1326060888 574086 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> iterate (id++map not . reverse) [False] < 1326060890 161038 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [[False],[False,True],[False,True,False,True],[False,True,False,True,False,... < 1326060896 858167 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :WELL THAT'S NOT ANY FUN < 1326060909 582166 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> iterate (\xs -> interleave xs (map not (reverse xs))) [False] < 1326060910 414427 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [[False],[False,True],[False,False,True,True],[False,False,False,False,True... < 1326060914 339044 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sheesh < 1326060917 236001 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> iterate (\xs -> interleave xs (map not xs)) [False] < 1326060918 148802 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [[False],[False,True],[False,True,True,False],[False,True,True,False,True,F... < 1326060922 70329 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I GIVE UP < 1326060969 7151 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> show<=>=(!!)[[1],[0,1]]) < 1326060972 874368 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval-core: Time limit exceeded < 1326060976 149139 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh < 1326060978 249964 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1326060991 148600 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix$(0:).tail.(>>=(!!)[[1],[0,1]]) < 1326060994 791182 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval-core: Time limit exceeded < 1326061001 517510 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm something is wrong < 1326061010 227391 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the tail consumes too much? < 1326061017 505996 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm < 1326061018 340399 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :for production < 1326061020 30637 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1326061025 828880 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you might need more starter elements < 1326061025 986773 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix$(0:).(>>=(!!)[[1],[0,1]]) < 1326061027 575131 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [0,1,0,1,1,0,1,0,1,1,0,1,1,0,1,0,1,1,0,1,0,1,1,0,1,1,0,1,0,1,1,0,1,1,0,1,0,... < 1326061042 428584 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> show<=>=(!!)[[1],[0,1]]) < 1326061044 22449 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "01011010110110101101011011010110110101101011011010110101101101011011010110... < 1326061072 706306 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a fairly general substitution sequence < 1326061075 928327 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which one is that? < 1326061101 202263 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fibonacci, unless i swapped the order < 1326061158 780962 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1326061195 734522 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :04:50:34 makeDef text = [d|helloDefinition = $(litE . stringL $ text)|] < 1326061199 984805 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: = $text i think < 1326061218 970828 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:10:44 * Sgeo has no idea if GHC is smart enough < 1326061219 168753 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :GHC is not allowed to turn a non-terminating program into a terminating one without printing <>. < 1326061240 275386 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> show<=>=(!!)[[0,1],[0]]) --seems this is canonical according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fibonacci_word < 1326061241 702744 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "00101001001010010100100101001001010010100100101001010010010100100101001010... < 1326061256 368149 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait hm < 1326061262 203475 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, uh, what was the context of the smart enough comment? < 1326061265 969210 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i just had this cool idea.. using mouse scrollwheel+some button to change window focus < 1326061268 915475 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: length xs< x < 1326061269 708241 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> show<=>=(!!)[[0,1],[0]]) --seems this is canonical according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fibonacci_word < 1326061271 137382 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "01001010010010100101001001010010010100101001001010010100100101001001010010... < 1326061277 319952 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that form needs tail < 1326061281 183540 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: you can scroll on the taskbar in gnome 2 at least < 1326061283 722338 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i used to do that a lot < 1326061285 466072 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :to switch windows < 1326061290 306488 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because the context that I'm thinking of is just an optimization, not ... oh, you only saw part of the context < 1326061296 236401 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: i saw all context < 1326061301 792259 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think < 1326061342 27141 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it occured to me on having 2 horizontally overlapping windows that the minimum distance to swap focus between them is the distance of the overlap < 1326061354 42012 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you use clicking on it to change focus < 1326061356 507046 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even the bit where I'm making my own Num that will let me write my own length that length xs < x terminates even for infinite xs? < 1326061417 908580 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: "my own Num" < 1326061418 67256 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :aka < 1326061421 463879 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the lazy peano numbers < 1326061423 423737 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the oldest thing ever < 1326061447 354559 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is a bit more general than that, although I don't see any use cases that this covers that lazy peanos don't. < 1326061452 72457 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, that if there is one window hidden behind another window then the minimum distance to change focus by clicking is moving to the minimize button, and then moving to the hidden window < 1326061477 320925 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly noone measures these vectors < 1326061497 117655 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least not on windows :P < 1326061510 368743 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: fitts' law may interest you < 1326061519 902307 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: how's it more general < 1326061570 345862 :atrapado!~insekt@95.169.240.66 QUIT :Quit: FIN < 1326061571 18190 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> show<=>=(!!)[[1,0],[0]]) < 1326061572 764594 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "01001010010010100101001001010010010100101001001010010100100101001001010010... < 1326061575 501632 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1326061586 590943 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um, not sure how to describe it, but it's an infinite list of maybe upper and lower bounds < 1326061623 659832 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I can represent a number that I know is "less than x" and then that x keeps decreasing as I calculate < 1326061627 861367 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm < 1326061649 836993 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah it seems my first try is called the rabbit sequence < 1326061728 896901 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: i'd like to see the code < 1326061745 178635 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Num instance is still being worked on < 1326061758 789990 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup someone told me about it once.. i forget exactly what it is < 1326061766 240773 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hpaste.org/56271 < 1326061773 857504 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i do remember that the edge of the screen is more comfortable to scroll against < 1326061790 527961 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :something to do with the size of the mouse target < 1326061793 102506 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`logsearch function array indexing < 1326061796 435011 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: logsearch: not found < 1326061804 844964 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`searchlog function array indexing < 1326061806 112161 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the edge of the screen is effectively an infinitely deep target < 1326061808 805883 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: yep < 1326061837 806016 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1326061849 79230 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`searchlog php index < 1326061863 409463 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2006-08-24.txt:22:24:26: http://www.codu.org/plof/index.php?title=LongWords < 1326061869 796063 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :poor searchlog is ahead of its time < 1326061881 347645 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever the term is < 1326061884 247561 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do plan on factoring out the hard to read stuff in the Num instance < 1326061944 267382 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: You could probably simplify it by realising that those Maybes are basically encoding a + -inf and a + inf. < 1326061950 272009 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Write appropriate instances, etc. < 1326062035 930807 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure Num, Ord does not have -inf or +inf. I mean, RealFloat or Floating or something probably does, but I don't < 1326062044 366581 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What the fuck are you talking about? < 1326062044 558914 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm, want to restrict myself like that < 1326062065 558196 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :data WithNegInf a = NegInf | NotNegInf a deriving (Eq) < 1326062072 545465 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :instance (Num a) => Num (WithNegInf a) < 1326062081 403263 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Similarly for NegInf; write appropriate Ord instances. < 1326062095 765196 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Change the thing to [(WithNegInf a, WithPosInf a)] < 1326062175 708518 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : Brainfuck with only balanced loops is *proven* sub-Turing-complete. <-- not with unbounded cells < 1326062197 929278 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Hmm, really? < 1326062206 907177 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, of course. < 1326062211 872769 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Don't worry, we later prove it TC. < 1326062221 483348 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :With BCT. < 1326062238 279698 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1326062339 167563 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :my 3-cell construction has balanced loops, of course (i couldn't _find_ any way to usefully use non-balanced ones) < 1326062432 96268 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you might notice something interesting about http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Special:Recentchanges today < 1326062450 758713 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION makes a guess before visiting < 1326062507 669954 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :alas, no, there's still a little spam < 1326062552 976281 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :are my eyes malfunctioning? i dont see dozens of spam entries < 1326062570 502854 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: still a _little_ < 1326062572 567911 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but vastly decreased < 1326062581 466017 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no itidus21, your eyes are fully operational. < 1326062920 497025 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rawSetCaption :: Maybe String -> Maybe String -> IO () < 1326062927 586520 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sets the window title and icon name. Use Nothing to unset. < 1326062932 425604 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really understand the purpose of this < 1326062938 585679 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is different about "" and Nothing here? < 1326063000 724759 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably the system can distinguish them < 1326063001 909638 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i don't see a proof for SumaMoito-Z1, but it seems obviously capable of handling my 3-cell balanced loops < 1326063011 145693 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a window with no title is not a window with an empty title < 1326063025 115128 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps < 1326063032 745280 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well it's easy to translate -z2 to -z1 < 1326063038 651880 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: just replace a- with < 1326063039 484468 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it also has: < 1326063046 754347 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :setCaption :: String -> String -> IO () < 1326063053 704297 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sets the window title and icon name. < 1326063053 861165 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :er hm < 1326063056 741305 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it's not quite easy < 1326063058 844671 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but all you need is a copy < 1326063065 864213 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: for simplicity, presumably < 1326063066 24547 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The same difference with "" and NULL for SDL_WM_SetCaption is my guess. :p < 1326063073 558488 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes that's what I would think. < 1326063087 747787 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OMG Darths & Droids is onto A New Hope. < 1326063162 604 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: but wouldn't setting the caption to an empty string have the same basic effect as unsetting it? < 1326063167 349859 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is there a minute difference? < 1326063177 280458 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think, it should be designed (although I don't know how it actually works), "" for SDL set caption should make the caption blank and NULL to make it show the filename < 1326063196 219202 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I see < 1326063201 494928 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :NULL could use some kind of default or something. < 1326063204 428379 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: you're confusing visual display for semantics < 1326063216 278948 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :window with no title rendered same way as window with empty title =/= same thing < 1326063217 388072 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :consider < 1326063220 501545 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ list-windows < 1326063224 271600 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :495345: (no caption) < 1326063226 849027 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :495345: caption: "" < 1326063231 734898 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes I'm asking what those semantics are... indirectly < 1326063234 193130 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do that a lot. < 1326063236 970883 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends on the system < 1326063243 603216 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there's one example < 1326063252 459932 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, it could do that but there is different system such as Windows, UNIX, and Macintosh. < 1326063511 950916 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:24:44 when . not ? < 1326063512 902903 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: unless < 1326063536 8062 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:31:17 erus`: There's an instance Error e => Monad (Either e) < 1326063536 165090 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :WROOONG! You're not in here so I can't yell at you but WROOOONG!!!! < 1326063650 893989 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :06:03:00 > let f a = const in f 1 2 < 1326063651 53198 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :06:03:00 Overlapping instances for GHC.Show.Show (b -> t) < 1326063651 209557 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :06:03:01 arising from a use of `... < 1326063651 209742 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :06:03:59 Which is a function, which doesn't have a Show instance < 1326063655 311800 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Yes it does. In fact, it has too many. < 1326063700 88864 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :They need to implement instance disambiguation!! < 1326063746 710177 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :08:00:04 Hmm < 1326063746 906310 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :08:00:08 What is State# ? < 1326063748 971730 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Nothing. < 1326063757 93056 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: State# s is 0 bits big. < 1326063759 431245 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does not exist. < 1326063791 608042 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: The reason IO uses it is so that GHC can't reorder IO expressions. < 1326063798 655817 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The (->) being used is the impure function arrow. < 1326063807 141667 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The State# is just used to introduce a fake evaluation dependency between computations. < 1326063837 229401 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :08:11:40 What would happen if I did try to do something like weird a = IO \s -> (s, a) < 1326063840 559328 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: With (##), that's return. < 1326063893 801046 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, so now we're shouting at #haskell from afar? < 1326063955 132312 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Yes! < 1326063961 403945 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: You can't get banned that way. < 1326063967 592449 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, you don't even have to *be* in #haskell. < 1326063967 752077 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :watching sgeo doing something stupid over there and shouting in his ear which is conveniently right here < 1326063981 966317 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: Better: He did it in THE PAST! < 1326064290 917653 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:00:17 i would like to plunge into haskell. i come from a c++/c/python background. can anyone suggest a strong text or set of lectures online that will give me a good foundation? < 1326064291 77055 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:00:24 @where lyah < 1326064291 233531 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:00:24 http://www.learnyouahaskell.com/ < 1326064291 233676 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:01:13 koeien:thanks! if i keep at this, would i be able to gain employment where haskell is used? < 1326064291 911214 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:01:22 at that site, i meant < 1326064293 923355 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:01:27 sorry for being ambiguois < 1326064296 317608 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I... I don't understand... < 1326064310 223026 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I misread. < 1326064391 646326 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :good channel < 1326064448 342215 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :inteq is fighting an uphill battle < 1326064468 997367 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't envy him < 1326064766 90930 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1326064777 796815 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:45:04 Sgeo : i think this is an interesting idea -- i saw some hand-written notes somewhere on the web about making such a lazy improving intervals type < 1326064781 519987 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: likely referring to http://conal.net/blog/posts/exact-numeric-integration < 1326064794 42369 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: which happens to do basically exactly what i proposed :) < 1326064804 286954 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort of < 1326064822 165774 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :see also http://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/ajbso/conal_elliott_exact_numeric_integration/c0i391y < 1326064844 532430 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: ah but the view on the top is glorious < 1326064984 211145 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> [0..]>>- \_->cycle[1,0] < 1326064986 271938 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [1,1,0,1,1,0,0,1,1,1,0,0,1,0,0,1,1,1,0,1,1,0,0,0,1,1,0,0,1,0,0,1,1,1,0,1,1,... < 1326065036 871845 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION cackles evilly < 1326065048 450411 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what is a good concise definition of "problem" in the computational sense < 1326065069 898013 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: lovely < 1326065080 430646 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> [0..]>>-cycle[1,0] < 1326065081 856742 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `t -> [b]' < 1326065082 15471 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred type `[t1]' < 1326065087 567911 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION was hoping for function Num instance < 1326065103 14750 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> iterate(group>=>show.length++take 1)"1" < 1326065107 197750 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval-core: Time limit exceeded < 1326065111 599281 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> iterate(group>=>show.length++take 1)"1" < 1326065112 787811 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : can't find file: L.hs < 1326065114 611775 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1326065115 604176 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1326065116 713794 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> iterate(group>=>show.length++take 1)"1" < 1326065119 649857 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ["1","11","21","1211","111221","312211","13112221","1113213211","3113121113... < 1326065121 710940 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has now committed that to memory < 1326065165 504145 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> iterate(group>=>show.length++take 1)"a" < 1326065167 129387 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ["a","1a","111a","311a","13211a","111312211a","31131122211a","1321132132211... < 1326065170 364198 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: a decision problem is simply the same thing as a language, mathematically < 1326065170 911872 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hides < 1326065174 195218 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1326065179 169311 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> iterate(group>=>show.length++take 1)"0" < 1326065181 271213 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ["0","10","1110","3110","132110","1113122110","311311222110","1321132132211... < 1326065208 163859 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :more general types of problems need their own definitions. < 1326065221 197721 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> head $ drop 300 $ iterate(group>=>show.length++take 1)"1" < 1326065222 903958 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "13211321322113311213212312311211131122211213211331121321123123211231131122... < 1326065245 225757 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Somehow that doesn't seem right < 1326065264 796232 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Madoka-Kaname: why not? < 1326065273 611789 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh. < 1326065274 783871 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Never mind < 1326065309 33477 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> iterate(group>=>show.length++take 1)"" < 1326065310 777211 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ["","","","","","","","","","","","","","","","","","","","","","","","",""... < 1326065314 901727 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> iterate(group>=>show.length++take 1)"hi" < 1326065316 802753 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ["hi","1h1i","111h111i","311h311i","13211h13211i","111312211h111312211i","3... < 1326065326 104351 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> iterate(group>=>show.length++take 1)$repeat 1 < 1326065327 55559 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (GHC.Num.Num GHC.Types.Char) < 1326065327 214459 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from the literal `1... < 1326065333 356883 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> iterate(group>=>show.length++take 1)$repeat '1' < 1326065335 40437 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ["1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111... < 1326065338 410438 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> tail.iterate(group>=>show.length++take 1)$repeat '1' < 1326065340 443431 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Terminated < 1326065342 504941 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :aww < 1326065379 512500 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> tail.iterate(group>=>show.length++take 1).concatMap show$[1..] < 1326065381 99035 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ["1112131415161718191110311211131114111511161117111811191210121132131214121... < 1326065385 104056 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> tail.tail.iterate(group>=>show.length++take 1).concatMap show$[1..] < 1326065386 891694 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ["3112111311141115111611171118111931101321123113311431153116311731183119111... < 1326065388 678557 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> tail.tail.tail.iterate(group>=>show.length++take 1).concatMap show$[1..] < 1326065390 350663 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ["1321123113311431153116311731183119132110111312211213212321141321151321161... < 1326065395 820924 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: pls explain patterns kthx < 1326065419 54054 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its simple really < 1326065440 71241 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: a language over the set of all possible mathematical symbols? < 1326065440 227719 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1,111,311,13211,111312211 < 1326065462 861170 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean like, duh < 1326065473 36845 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :am I a possible mathematical symbol < 1326065474 303449 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you < 1326065493 703917 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> head $ drop 300 $ iterate(group>=>show.length++take 1)"22" < 1326065495 172376 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "22" < 1326065506 33789 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well the first step is just interleaving 1 everywhere < 1326065513 295844 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :except, no < 1326065516 539628 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :since digits can repeat there < 1326065517 585376 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1326065519 51751 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> iterate(group>=>show.length++take 1)"4444" < 1326065520 518346 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ["4444","44","24","1214","11121114","31123114","132112132114","111312211211... < 1326065531 846430 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> iterate(group>=>show.length++take 1)"2222222222" < 1326065532 2873 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: i'm gonna go with no not really < 1326065533 445461 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ["2222222222","102","111012","31101112","1321103112","1113122110132112","31... < 1326065543 774569 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> iterate(group>=>show.length++take 1)"222222222" < 1326065544 565825 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: i think its okay to define a symbol as a specific string of other symbols. so, yes, if you can produce an axiomatic description of us < 1326065545 369843 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ["222222222","92","1912","11191112","31193112","132119132112","111312211911... < 1326065589 289235 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: a language over some arbitrary (finite) alphabet < 1326065593 903874 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log information is < 1326065601 493181 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2009-08-01.txt:15:08:18: because only that information is of the form to transmit itself into the future < 1326065686 720248 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: all digits > 3 eventually become isolated from each other. then it devolves into conway's atoms, which behave as a substitution rule. < 1326065695 330475 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: but to mathematicians, the alphabet is not arbitrary, is it? there is a conventional set of symbols? < 1326065715 993680 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yeah, i was just hoping somehow infinitely extending it would make it interesting :P < 1326065721 546520 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a wild delusion! < 1326065752 939468 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log [i]nformation is < 1326065757 787262 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Breaking news, look'n'say isn't turing complete < 1326065759 727977 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2010-01-10.txt:13:49:25: does anyone know if information is transferred faster by reading or by listening. Assume a skilled reader and native speaker. < 1326065805 258991 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`searchlog itidus philisoph < 1326065813 28292 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2012-01-08.txt:23:36:45: `searchlog itidus philisoph < 1326065818 884432 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oop < 1326065823 882794 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`searchlog itidus philosoph < 1326065832 719716 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-08-14.txt:07:15:58: i don't have philosophical dilemmas about whether the opcodes of a rom are being emulated in a uniform way < 1326065840 64749 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1326065844 662630 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow indeed. < 1326065863 185856 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i cant even remember what that is supposed to mean < 1326065895 237288 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fun fact: the person who invented coffee chocolates should be shot. < 1326065896 29232 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`searchlog itidus philosoph < 1326065897 931701 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably referring to NES emulation < 1326065903 880132 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2012-01-07.txt:12:36:21: fizzie: i don't understand why philosophy + retro gaming + symbols is so interesting < 1326065913 105554 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: this is for theoretical purposes, so you only _need_ two symbols, such as 0 or 1. otherwise, mathematicians will use whatever they fancy. < 1326065989 685324 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably digits or letters from latin or greek alphabet, unless there's some reason to use something else (such as the problem coming from another part of math which uses specific symbols) < 1326066035 602995 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was in reference to the vic20 chess video < 1326066118 880766 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, that ever-popular "letter with number subscript" < 1326066161 198015 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you don't really _care_ what the actual letters are, so you just make them indexed variables. < 1326066175 206842 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the number may itself be a variable. < 1326066178 299479 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`searchlog itidus21 information < 1326066186 361827 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2012-01-06.txt:15:43:38: but.. in any normal human's life, the history of video games is useless information :D < 1326066193 654189 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`searchlog itidus philosoph < 1326066203 357560 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-11-26.txt:05:10:20: i love nothing more than to philosophize about these things < 1326066231 761922 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was once compared to a markov < 1326066282 204949 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :did it trigger an existential crisis < 1326066329 259372 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`searchlog itidus existential < 1326066338 969862 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-09-17.txt:08:13:16: all im saying is when i stagger into my brothers room laying down having a whiskey from him while my body is shaking.. which all seems caused by existential pondering < 1326066370 603048 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OMFG < 1326066371 871179 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1326066372 980018 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop < 1326066374 406401 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything < 1326066376 942753 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have worked < 1326066377 575384 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :out < 1326066383 888360 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1326066384 47939 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1326066384 681267 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how to drag < 1326066387 768326 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :on my touchpad < 1326066394 105211 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :im stopinge < 1326066401 64010 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: how does it, work < 1326066401 381180 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop stop < 1326066401 858566 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this < 1326066403 442845 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :omg < 1326066409 149797 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it work by < 1326066410 417169 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :buying a mouse < 1326066413 783454 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1326066416 195791 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it works < 1326066420 683400 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it work by drageing < 1326066434 417531 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :by double clicking and then not taking your finger up on the second click < 1326066444 880040 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there < 1326066448 724530 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no limit < 1326066456 380152 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for so long i have asked myself < 1326066463 596638 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do i drag without using the mouse buttons < 1326066468 112552 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now i know < 1326066470 331842 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dude < 1326066472 233715 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :how did you not like < 1326066473 660546 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :realise that earlier < 1326066500 891509 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because who clicks and then immediately drags?? < 1326066552 977648 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It doesn't actually send a click. < 1326066571 627917 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that also. < 1326066581 60566 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What doesn't? < 1326066636 799751 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: i know how to resolve this.. i will upload a random .txt file of mine and you will need a lot of help < 1326066644 512162 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :13:59:00 roconnor: There's a Control.Monad.Error which provides a Monad instance for some Either's; and a fixed Monad class with a proper Either instance in the split of category-extras. < 1326066646 507157 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO STOP YOU'RE SO WRONG! < 1326066656 728434 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: WHY DOES NOBODY REALISE THAT EITHER'S FAIL IS ERROR THESE DAYS < 1326066660 839377 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : Phantom_Hoover: OK, divmod is quite tricky. <-- oh dear, this is pikhq's bfm/pebbles all over again :P < 1326066667 95363 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: heh howso < 1326066674 496069 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Hey, I was only half-paying attention in that conversation. < 1326066676 977313 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess it's similar-looking < 1326066682 658493 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: DMWIT HAS SAID IT _TWICE_ IN THIS LOG, TWICE!!! < 1326066685 982596 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION cries. < 1326066687 790780 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait. < 1326066688 582883 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't even realise they were talking about MonadError until a long time later. < 1326066688 760738 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait no. < 1326066692 354417 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want him to be ignorant. < 1326066696 632788 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It means more SO questions for me to answer. < 1326066702 175510 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"How come Either's fail isn't working?" < 1326066704 840893 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO many more questions. < 1326066710 12436 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1326066715 77888 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Delicious karma. < 1326066730 994278 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should take Joel Spolsky hostage and demand a billion karma points. < 1326066742 790673 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:02:51 > let { x :: Integer; x = fromIntegral (maxBound :: Int) } in x * x -- values of type Integer can be arbitrarily large. < 1326066742 969302 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:02:52 85070591730234615847396907784232501249 < 1326066747 687666 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everyone knows 85070591730234615847396907784232501249 is the biggest number. < 1326066754 246137 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY DOES NOBODY REALISE THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING < 1326066761 102805 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: because pikhq basically implemented all of that stuff by compiling into balanced brainfuck. < 1326066765 857574 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It only changes you being dumb to being slightly less dumb. < 1326066767 229749 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Just wait until you hear what happens when you TRIPLE-CLICK. < 1326066768 503972 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: heh < 1326066782 671995 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a few pieces of this are cut and pasted. most sadly.. is my original work. http://hpaste.org/56275 .. this is like concentrated essence of `searchlog itidus philosoph < 1326066814 893671 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:06:37 dmwit: anyhow It seems I shoudn't rely on fail to return Left < 1326066815 72951 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:06:47 dmwit: so I should probably use ErrorT rather than Either? < 1326066815 247457 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:07:27 roconnor: I doubt that behavior will change any time soon. It's relied on by many pieces of code other than yours. =P < 1326066822 352435 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I think he's going for irony. < 1326066871 225153 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why am I consuming 85% dark chocolate? < 1326066875 155739 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like dark chocolate. < 1326066882 650208 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then don't. < 1326066897 252789 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoa. < 1326066900 299510 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can do that? < 1326066921 875988 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1326066922 745525 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Continue. < 1326066923 620186 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: diophantine equations are not decidable over N. therefore, such problems are not in PSPACE. therefore, they cannot be written in such a way that the tarski-kuratowski algorithm can be used on them. anything wrong with this logic? < 1326066941 140050 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:21:43 Making fail part of MonadZero rather than Monad seems more reasonable than the current situation. < 1326066952 745859 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION prepares for rebuke. < 1326066958 242000 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: You should really have proposed the mzero :: (forall a. a) -> m a solution. < 1326066964 854605 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: probably not, but i lost you at tarski-kuratowski. < 1326066968 264318 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Ew. < 1326066975 892679 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, "mzero :: a -> m b" would work per parametricity, I think. < 1326066982 218288 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Come on, it's so brilliant. < 1326066984 594015 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That solution is a horrible joke. < 1326066998 910662 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Well... yes, but is it really worse than taking a String which /changes based on column number/? < 1326067011 332653 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: its the one that places problems on the arithmetic hierarchy < 1326067021 236593 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I mean, at least the idea of stuffing meaningful information into _|_ and extracting it in a safe place is well-covered. < 1326067065 465254 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. I guess that's a point. < 1326067091 346732 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The <- pattern-match failure thing is actually observable in the program, isn't it. < 1326067094 533344 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's kind of horrible. < 1326067095 687569 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://wiki.rpg.net/index.php/Worst_RPGs_ever < 1326067095 843369 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep. < 1326067103 541601 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually shouldn't it be exists a. a or something? < 1326067111 947661 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: AKA a. < 1326067115 591561 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1326067116 925203 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: The problem is that you always want it to be _|_. < 1326067121 114942 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(forall a. a) forces that. < 1326067131 760798 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but who cares if it's not? < 1326067136 329087 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Racial Holy War (RaHoWa) < 1326067137 161894 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, true. < 1326067137 321069 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The PCs play “White Warriors”, fighting against the classic 'enemies' of racist groups: blacks, Jews, latrinos (the game uses that term), and basically everyone outside of the “Aryan ideal” < 1326067138 627564 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Anyway, I mean, the _|_ message is obseravble in the program too, but only in the sin-bin. < 1326067148 59531 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't want my program to *depend* on _|_ existing. < 1326067156 79973 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Right, but that's different. < 1326067159 727519 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that seems reasonable, since you can layer on error handling with it. < 1326067163 495895 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1326067178 669378 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, either you typed very quickly or you're making use of the copy-paste-bin. < 1326067190 3699 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I cache lines with ctrl-x sometimes. < 1326067193 409812 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I type very quickly too. < 1326067203 858840 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really like the way that pattern match failure can be caught in IO in Haskell. It should be a macro that changes a function to one resulting in IO and raising the proper exceptions for that, it makes more sense mathematically, this way, to me, at least < 1326067204 690789 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: oh hm reading the wp page, i doubt that. < 1326067227 634021 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION would be happy with `class MonadZero m { where mzero :: m a; mzero = mfail (error "mzero"); mfail :: a -> m b; mfail _ = mzero }`. < 1326067241 245962 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I don't want to give the same treatment to Nothing, though. < 1326067242 710885 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's just wrong. < 1326067260 592327 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :To Nothing? < 1326067279 125172 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You mean Maybe a = Nothing (exists b. b) | Just a? < 1326067281 864787 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1326067289 521824 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's how you told me about it. < 1326067291 582412 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How can it be wrong when it feels so right? < 1326067294 9048 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1326067295 159186 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : You mean Maybe a = Nothing (exists b. b) | Just a? < 1326067299 755753 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe nothing exists? < 1326067309 185494 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe nothing exists, just a. < 1326067311 761670 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: FAR OUT, DUDE < 1326067318 22909 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if, like, NOTHING EXISTED < 1326067322 778944 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thus objectivism. < 1326067333 289039 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a=a < 1326067334 401053 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a=_|_ < 1326067339 204699 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything is bottom. < 1326067360 322762 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The real solution is to have GHC give that treatment to everything. < 1326067369 71550 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So any constructor has a hidden field for storing an optional _|_. < 1326067384 937951 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: You know, I might not object to < 1326067390 629947 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hide :: String -> a -> a < 1326067394 77539 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :seek :: a -> IO (Maybe String) < 1326067403 78280 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-( < 1326067406 128855 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean... it would work. < 1326067410 843861 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-( < 1326067414 607832 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It wouldn't.) < 1326067422 181514 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Because it's not preserved under .) < 1326067440 41596 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The trick for mfail works specifically because you have to pack it manually in your type.) < 1326067443 934261 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(So your (>>=) handles it.) < 1326067449 521625 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1326067459 661328 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I... kind of support this solution now. < 1326067463 69159 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't expecting that to happen. < 1326067473 706951 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No you don't. < 1326067485 352351 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, you like to think you do. But if you thought about it some more I'm sure you wouldn't. < 1326067485 508660 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I kind of do? < 1326067500 6577 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, can *you* come up with a decent argument against it? < 1326067527 228217 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Other than "it's evil"? < 1326067540 571842 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: It's as evil as error and asynchronous exceptions. < 1326067554 862788 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a pretty low level of evil for Haskell. < 1326067574 272563 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmph. < 1326067592 620797 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it has a certain charm to i. < 1326067604 687914 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That charm is imaginary. < 1326067605 958922 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why don't you go propose it in #haskell? < 1326067615 866602 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :...Maybe later. < 1326067635 130732 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why don't you write a proposal on SO? < 1326067637 190991 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I might think it's a good idea, but I'm also sane enough to know everyone will think I'm crazy. < 1326067638 934035 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait. < 1326067654 623260 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: No discussion allowed, dude! You have to phrase it as "Would this be a good idea?". < 1326067658 548050 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And hope it's not closed for being non-constructive. < 1326067701 244493 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: THOSE INTUITIONIST FASCISTS. < 1326067730 713073 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh, Google has one result for "intuitionist fascist". < 1326067737 393340 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-162-128-110.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: SLEEP, GLORIOUS SLEEP < 1326067759 352913 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it a band name < 1326067770 219512 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.jstor.org/pss/1953935 < 1326067771 12804 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :riveting < 1326067797 405489 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It's just too abstract for you. < 1326067800 775136 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't handle it. < 1326067938 100462 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION → sleep < 1326067939 209616 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1326067957 727421 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Did you actually sleep? < 1326067964 350102 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You said you were going to and then reappeared. < 1326067980 481411 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did sleep! < 1326068011 283437 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1326068019 687786 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1326068148 577902 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: oh i have a hunch what your problem is. you may be confusing the polynomial and the arithmetic hierarchy. < 1326068181 647134 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :being inside PSPACE applies to the former, being undecidable and stuff applies to the latter. < 1326068190 251582 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh my god Acme::Comment < 1326068194 251044 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :has so many comment styles... < 1326068194 920509 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Can you make Stack Overflow's rankings update quicker? < 1326068197 556265 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that you can use. < 1326068203 208059 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has unlambda comments < 1326068240 502316 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Well, I have insider information on what the rankings will be like on the next update. < 1326068246 128356 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :RANKINGS: < 1326068249 256982 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :#1 ehird < 1326068263 978903 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It stops there. < 1326068264 771396 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Already is on at least one ranking: http://stackoverflow.com/tags/haskell/topusers < 1326068290 65095 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and while both can be thought of as alternating quantifiers, and so may have an algorithm such as tarski-kuratowski applies to them, they do it in a different way. iirc, in the polynomial hierarchy you want all the variables to be polynomially _bounded_, while in the arithmetic hierarchy bounded quantification is ignored. < 1326068290 382060 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://stackoverflow.com/tags/monads/topusers < 1326068309 45246 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :congratulations < 1326068325 902693 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is nomadic. < 1326068369 489493 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://stackoverflow.com/tags/higher-rank-types/topusers < 1326068378 597155 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Man, you're just winning that popularity contest. < 1326068410 437563 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Yessss < 1326068421 332669 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*applied < 1326068444 120044 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: World Expert in Higher Rank Types in the last 30 days. < 1326068447 862397 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/:/,/ < 1326068489 358484 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That ehird fellow on SO is really polite and well-spoken and what not. < 1326068497 997230 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should try to be more like him/her. < 1326068522 64631 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: He's actually Don Stewart claiming the identity of another to deflect backlash against his aggressive Haskell evangelism. < 1326068523 411950 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::tinfoil: < 1326068542 428806 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Anyway, the thing is that I'm polite in exchange for meaningless internet points. < 1326068547 699365 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :People don't give me the right kind of meaningless internet points here. < 1326068554 97218 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My attempt to be gender-neutral there only sort of worked. < 1326068560 997060 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@google "gender-neutral there only sort of worked" < 1326068562 740373 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://qdb.rawrnix.com/?top < 1326068562 897365 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Title: Top Quotes < 1326068594 437829 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION gives elliott a swat point -----### < 1326068621 667243 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: See, that's the wrong kind. < 1326068633 506010 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :IMPOSSIBLE < 1326068633 662539 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Not so meaningless now, are they? < 1326068687 10667 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what if you could trade SO rep for bitcoins? < 1326068701 884613 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Then I'd have *two* kinds of meaningless internet point. < 1326068719 392727 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, as far as I know bitcoin translates to real money I think... < 1326068736 986099 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :BITCOIN BITCOIN BITCOIN. < 1326068744 904403 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure I can buy drugs with SO rep too. < 1326068768 647285 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably not. < 1326068792 290527 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would sell elliott drugs for SO rep. < 1326068792 925345 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless some drug user is looking to get some made SO rep. < 1326068795 229619 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/made/mad/ < 1326068805 350155 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: s/user/dealer/ < 1326068825 960566 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not very difficult for a user to become a dealer in this situation. < 1326068847 796581 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: How much?!?!?!?!?! < 1326068850 531393 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how to become a drug dealer at least temporarily: 1) have drugs 2) want to sell drugs 3) someone wants to buy your drugs < 1326068863 285212 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : OK maybe a Mac Lane party wouldn't be such a completely terrible idea? <-- it's a bit of a close call. < 1326068875 749295 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: OK where's the pun. < 1326068876 225545 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :to Mac LAN party, that is. < 1326068880 748893 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Can you ever transfer SO karma? < 1326068882 530456 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate you. < 1326068884 589043 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Bounties. < 1326068890 703528 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But abuse would get cracked down on pretty quickly. < 1326068902 339478 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially abuse related to drug trafficking < 1326068906 815203 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not really) < 1326068909 410711 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't want to mess with that Spolsky fellow. < 1326068912 804485 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yw < 1326068920 608998 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I still don't get it. < 1326068931 235279 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :MacLane party?! < 1326068933 698596 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm surprised Acme::Comment doesn't have brainfuck-style comments. < 1326068934 845661 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: a LAN party, with Macs. < 1326068939 414403 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should submit a patch < 1326068941 751123 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :How is that a close call. < 1326068948 203015 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Sorry, only me and PH are invited. < 1326068954 627829 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is because neither of us know category theory. < 1326068959 941639 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-( < 1326068962 162779 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, we're not working mathematicians. < 1326068967 21827 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You gotta do category theory at a MacLane party. < 1326068968 962474 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: just one letter away, duh < 1326068971 539755 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Mac Lane -> Mac LAN ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha < 1326068984 269205 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I GET THAT PART < 1326068986 802081 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :whats the close clal part < 1326068987 912126 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Hey, that mockery should be directed at me. < 1326068997 276942 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haha < 1326069001 118909 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait. < 1326069005 339262 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought I made an original pun. < 1326069015 873890 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I was making a pun on Mac LAN which was making a pun on Mac Lane. < 1326069019 443371 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but no really I'm going to see if I can patch brainfuck comments into Acme::Comment < 1326069022 461158 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be so good. < 1326069023 890770 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is completely oblivious. < 1326069046 632780 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagine brainfuck comments in perl source... yesssssss < 1326069052 733676 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"brainfuck comments" < 1326069060 585044 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1326069062 693763 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :brainfuck comments < 1326069070 434634 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :defined as anything that is not a valid brainfuck instruction < 1326069124 39624 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: i sense a bit of a problem there < 1326069129 546072 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hmm < 1326069131 9955 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :problem? < 1326069133 166219 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean? < 1326069164 94545 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: i don't think you can do much perl programming using only brainfuck instruction letters. < 1326069172 199665 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm < 1326069175 92779 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I fail to see the importance < 1326069180 675963 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the import thing is comment syntax < 1326069180 832676 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :O KAY < 1326069184 44427 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl needs all the comments < 1326069202 303506 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess it _would_ improve readability a lot. < 1326069208 758778 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Acme::Comment even supports perl comments < 1326069216 873042 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :use Acme::Comment type => 'Perl'; < 1326069231 915095 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :not to be confused with Python and AWK comments < 1326069238 374595 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which are also supported < 1326069297 32110 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also: Haskell comments < 1326069319 925768 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :though it doesn't document that it supports the {- -} form < 1326069323 370234 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just mentions the -- form < 1326069490 31879 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :awesome intercal comments < 1326069544 462854 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(100) DO NOTE THAT the following perl code uses intercal comments < 1326069616 417970 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't mention anything require just the right amount of PLEASE < 1326069619 361177 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :+about < 1326069624 33693 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*requiring < 1326069949 983497 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm is INTERCAL case sensitive < 1326069997 316260 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I usually see intercal commands written in uppercase form but I don't really know. < 1326070033 683159 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1326070092 326460 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl my %x = (1, 2, 3, $x{1}); print %x < 1326070095 337672 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :123 < 1326070104 805898 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh. it would be cool if you could actually do that. < 1326070985 306732 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-162-128-110.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326072342 300252 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> [0..]>>-liftM2(,)"ab" < 1326072343 131044 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instances for (GHC.Num.Num [a2], GHC.Enum.Enum [a2]) < 1326072343 289369 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a u... < 1326072362 330806 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> [0..]>>-liftM(,)"ab" < 1326072363 123447 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `[b]' < 1326072363 319106 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred type `b1 -> (a1... < 1326072454 365187 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> [0..]>>-mapM(,)"ab" < 1326072455 157491 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [('a',0),('a',1),('b',0),('a',2),('b',1),('a',3),('b',2),('a',4),('b',3),('... < 1326072680 682721 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: congrats < 1326072700 749427 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1326072735 248049 :Tinman-811!~Tom@static-71-162-229-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326072792 886356 :Tinman-811!~Tom@static-71-162-229-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net PART :#esoteric < 1326072795 457847 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders what that was about < 1326072802 633991 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it's a fancy zipWith < 1326072830 401783 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not zipWith < 1326072881 128265 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how so? < 1326072887 153027 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean other than cycle being applied to "ab" < 1326072961 826016 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. it's closer to liftM2(,) but it's not that either, if you look carefully. < 1326072974 613297 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yes < 1326073005 919547 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't it like zipWith but slightly out of order? < 1326073034 380340 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :not particularly. < 1326073240 812716 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable `elem` [constant1, constant2] < 1326073253 469684 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if GHC unrolls this expression during compilation. < 1326073273 283580 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it would be difficult to do generally but I feel that it's possible. < 1326073299 173426 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you have to know that elem terminates. < 1326073544 18344 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps if you had a special type of rule pragma, programmers could apply transformations at compile-time under the condition that an argument is a constant. < 1326073630 697727 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but... really for lists that could be handled automatically. If it's determined that a function has a terminating condition and is applied on a constant list < 1326073833 276654 :testbot2!~PircBot@173-25-169-137.client.mchsi.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1326073833 432955 :testbot2!~PircBot@173-25-169-137.client.mchsi.com QUIT :Excess Flood < 1326074004 209024 :shi7brix!~NKasio@167.Red-88-15-201.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326074010 730809 :testbot2!~PircBot@173-25-169-137.client.mchsi.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1326074010 886989 :testbot2!~PircBot@173-25-169-137.client.mchsi.com QUIT :Excess Flood < 1326074027 810785 :augur_!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326074072 650242 :shi7brix!~NKasio@167.Red-88-15-201.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net PART :#esoteric < 1326074106 917441 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1326074130 408364 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i sense that the test might not be entirely successful. < 1326074132 508256 :testbot2!~PircBot@173-25-169-137.client.mchsi.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1326074132 664712 :testbot2!~PircBot@173-25-169-137.client.mchsi.com QUIT :Excess Flood < 1326074460 395717 :testbot2!~PircBot@173-25-169-137.client.mchsi.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1326074460 551909 :testbot2!~PircBot@173-25-169-137.client.mchsi.com QUIT :Excess Flood < 1326074505 892097 :augur_!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net NICK :augur < 1326074926 151367 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-162-128-110.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: SLEEP, GLORIOUS SLEEP < 1326075048 374124 :testbot2!~PircBot@173-25-169-137.client.mchsi.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1326075148 608212 :testbot2!~PircBot@173-25-169-137.client.mchsi.com QUIT :Client Quit < 1326078150 700032 :yiyus!1242712427@je.je.je QUIT :Read error: Connection timed out < 1326078983 644801 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz JOIN :#esoteric < 1326078993 474676 :yiyus!~124271242@je.je.je JOIN :#esoteric < 1326079692 634048 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1326080146 634346 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-162-128-110.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326080192 553696 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`words --italian --eng-all 25 < 1326080204 176882 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :luciamoraca denun incrivald pungerait reto delanoscoute fiempt acorito buti adthroehoull pati syj nurerà sbile esis p6rime sobron coull's dillework instricaven prek ressimo getaskau schiger invivam < 1326080271 185143 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :p6rime.. < 1326081618 345540 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1326081827 906208 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1326082064 388649 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1326084426 254538 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net NICK :MSleep < 1326084501 561128 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1326084696 684570 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1326084747 131070 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I added one idea to esolang list of ideas < 1326085142 778511 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote this idea: If you use a variable where a specific type is expected, it is an implicit cast and it changes the actual value of the variable to that casted value too, rather than only reading it, and there isn't much other way to affect values of variables. < 1326085318 60919 :qubital!~kmklz@c-98-197-84-133.hsd1.tx.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326085447 252030 :qubital!~kmklz@c-98-197-84-133.hsd1.tx.comcast.net PART :#esoteric < 1326085955 96611 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-162-128-110.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: SLEEP, GLORIOUS SLEEP < 1326086467 544725 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/List_of_ideas Now I moved some of the sections, and now I added one more thing which mentions the [[User:Zzo38/Astro-Q]] article so it is no longer completely irrelevant < 1326086635 880320 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now there is one section for music, one section for mathematics, one section for physics, one section for implementation, etc < 1326087155 301233 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1326087179 649711 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I now added a "Game" section too. < 1326087207 313963 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like the reorganization < 1326087296 764450 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good. < 1326087371 294643 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have added two additiona entries to the page: < 1326087376 720090 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Programming language using TeX DVI output as the program code. < 1326087386 350702 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Physics of planets/astronomy tells the program what to do (possibly by using astrological signs or aspects or whatever). Possibly make such an esolang feature usable with User:Zzo38/Astro-Q < 1326087923 987151 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, now I have even done more reorganization to the list of ideas < 1326088091 304134 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it better now? < 1326088800 712213 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks the same as the last i looked < 1326088813 365008 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION too lazy to check history < 1326088850 942924 :Guest554116!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net QUIT :Quit: ! < 1326091311 328179 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326091407 146280 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-12-141.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1326091407 302760 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-12-141.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1326091407 302911 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1326091596 1509 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :*.net *.split < 1326091596 161447 :MSleep!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :*.net *.split < 1326091596 161608 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan QUIT :*.net *.split < 1326091596 317633 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :*.net *.split < 1326091596 317807 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net QUIT :*.net *.split < 1326091596 317886 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1326091596 473884 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi QUIT :*.net *.split < 1326091596 473980 :rodgort!~rodgort@li125-242.members.linode.com QUIT :*.net *.split < 1326091596 474025 :Nisstyre!~yours@c-208-90-102-250.netflash.net QUIT :*.net *.split < 1326091596 474067 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi QUIT :*.net *.split < 1326091800 702886 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326091800 859209 :MSleep!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326091800 859379 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan JOIN :#esoteric < 1326091800 859464 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326091800 859541 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1326091800 859659 :rodgort!~rodgort@li125-242.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1326091800 859738 :Nisstyre!~yours@c-208-90-102-250.netflash.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326091800 859815 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1326091835 184597 :Nisstyre!~yours@c-208-90-102-250.netflash.net QUIT :Max SendQ exceeded < 1326091942 528759 :Nisstyre!~yours@c-208-90-102-250.netflash.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326092706 641660 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 QUIT :Read error: Connection timed out < 1326092775 359055 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326093126 288056 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :So,,, does it understand,,, now??? < 1326094217 661569 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1326094655 938071 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-252-1.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326094781 685233 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-205-39.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1326095735 978805 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326095828 136152 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://docs.python.org/library/cookie.html#Cookie.SerialCookie it's great that the standard library has such a convenient function which is so incredibly dangerous < 1326095844 339212 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Stores any Python value in a cookie! This will cut your balls off, 100% guaranteed." < 1326096222 378262 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, at least it's deprecated. < 1326096374 10026 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And gone in 3.x. < 1326096960 97950 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :"pickle strings can be crafted to cause arbitrary code to execute on your server" < 1326096967 309875 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :They make it sound difficult < 1326097054 117466 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only the utmost expert criminals can craft such strings, and it takes months of meticulous work. < 1326097075 526829 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I usually just buy a pre-crafted string on the black market. < 1326097085 5810 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, once you use it, it can never be used again. < 1326097892 83043 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hand-crafted by loving artisans according to the traditional ways of a bygone era < 1326098123 474014 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, deprecating it is just a hilariously inappropriate response < 1326098151 964199 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's good if upgrading Python breaks code using this function < 1326098173 617713 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that code is almost certainly exploitable < 1326098206 58661 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-252-1.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :We live in a world that deprecated gets, instead of redefining it to have semantics of "#error YOU ARE A MORON" < 1326098239 64363 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1326098240 174225 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think that's not so bad < 1326098243 225142 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :not as bad < 1326098261 216539 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-252-1.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though I suppose it's *theoretically* possible to use gets securely... < 1326098265 877769 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a lot of C code which is never going to be run setuid or as a remotely accessible service < 1326098284 854854 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-252-1.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you've redefined stdin to be a pipe, and your process is on the other end. < 1326098331 235937 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas most web services try to enforce some separation between "users who can submit unauthenticated HTTP requests" and "users who can execute arbitrary code as the server" < 1326098334 401011 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-252-1.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Or run by a end user? < 1326098346 625031 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, ? < 1326098351 819425 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-252-1.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want input to a program deleting ~ < 1326098361 911418 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1326098368 624784 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :running such a program on untrusted input would also be bad < 1326098425 500389 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also C has a standard saying you need to provide gets() < 1326098443 733974 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Python does whatever the fuck they want < 1326098462 988467 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway in both cases i'd support hiding it behind some flag that requires positive action to be enabled < 1326098484 876263 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :C11 removed gets(), it seems. < 1326098487 616606 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-252-1.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup. < 1326098492 269028 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate the attitude that a vulnerability isn't a vulnerability if it's documented in some document nobody reads < 1326098513 702649 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-252-1.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though POSIX still mandates it. < 1326098546 35783 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :by the way in my Python 2.7.2+, SerialCookie does not raise a DeprecationWarning, and help(Cookie.SerialCookie) gives no warning about security < 1326098567 417129 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-252-1.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though a strictly conforming POSIX app SHALL NOT use it. < 1326098583 282913 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it does say "IF AN INCOMING VALUE IS NOT IN A VALID PICKLE, FORMAT, THEN AN EXCEPTION WILL BE RAISED. Note: Large cookie values add overhead because they must be retransmitted on every HTTP transaction. Note: HTTP has a 2k limit on the size of a cookie. This class does not check for this limit, so be careful!!!" < 1326098593 881162 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what's really important < 1326098599 233387 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, that's kind of ridiculous. < 1326098611 756485 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least it ends in "be careful!!!". < 1326098615 279791 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :be careful!!! of gasoline fumes (while you're taking a chainsaw to the groin) < 1326098616 434970 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you know to be careful. < 1326098619 356578 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1326098648 764520 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :my software is 100% secure < 1326098655 990195 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the documentation says "this program may have bugs, don't trigger them" < 1326098658 718179 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Once the user has been told that they should be careful, it's no longer the library author's fault if something bad happens. < 1326098668 391537 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have a security bug, then you have violated the software contract < 1326098726 256892 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-252-1.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not to mention the law of least surprise. < 1326098778 26609 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't be held responsible for what happens if people use the software out of spec < 1326098796 660993 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-252-1.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't be held responsible for my actions against people who write unreasonable specs. < 1326098799 719072 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-252-1.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1326098827 938398 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a lot like secure programming in C < 1326098833 153429 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's only one simple rule < 1326098839 761293 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't make any mistake, ever. < 1326098842 849724 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Where would Ksplice be if people didn't write bugs? < 1326098861 168887 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, feature upgrades! < 1326098897 650778 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :every day you could download new microoptimizations < 1326098918 362188 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(except that ksplice'd functions are slightly slower to call, but oh well) < 1326098940 696653 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because of an added jump? < 1326098945 50862 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1326098952 566789 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the beginning of the old function is overwritten with a jump to the new < 1326098956 308744 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-252-1.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Broken window fallacy? :) < 1326098981 826326 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-252-1.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Clever solution. < 1326098990 593387 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Presumably if you patch a function multiple times, it will only ever get one extra jump, though, right? < 1326098992 227368 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also other entry points to the old function, if there are any) < 1326099001 68983 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-252-1.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably also the only way of doing any hot-patching of a binary. < 1326099016 412658 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, it's not that clever, it's probably the least interesting thing about how ksplice works < 1326099022 249457 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, I don't recall < 1326099079 613990 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are the more interesting parts of Ksplice? < 1326099083 579002 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should probably just read the paper. < 1326099101 651982 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :more interesting is the fact that ksplice can patch a static function, or can patch in new code which calls a static function < 1326099106 848595 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's not relying on the exported symbols list < 1326099127 783290 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-252-1.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right, ksplice works automatically from basically whatever happens to be the running kernel. < 1326099139 759212 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really < 1326099146 95221 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-252-1.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which gives you a lot of work to do before you even have a hope of hot-patching... < 1326099160 767791 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need a source tree for the kernel you're currently running < 1326099208 417342 :xandy!~xandy@unaffiliated/xandy PART #esoteric :"Leaving" < 1326099209 573120 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :when preparing a patch, you build the old and new code with gcc -ffunction-sections < 1326099211 869049 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1326099243 333538 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ksplice tools do a content-aware diff on the resulting object files < 1326099298 521417 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :using -ffunction-sections means that you have a relocation for every call < 1326099402 392743 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a given call instruction in the binary, you know by name which function is being called, even if it's non-exported < 1326099424 801307 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :at runtime, you compare the pre-patched code you built with the actual running kernel, instruction by instruction < 1326099469 332051 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is for safety but it also allows you to find the load addresses of those non-exported functions < 1326099562 7338 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you see that same call instruction again, and decode its target < 1326099631 883007 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :With inline functions I suppose you just patch the function calling it? < 1326099640 379669 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1326099657 149700 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the tools work at the binary level, and so are mostly oblivious to inline functions etc. < 1326099676 712119 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you change a function which is inlined to 20 callers, it looks like you changed those 20 functions < 1326099690 918700 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which is awkward because patching more code => bad, but there's really no way around it) < 1326099735 740791 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also sometimes a change in the code for one function will cause gcc to change its mind about register allocation in an unrelated function < 1326099740 572638 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :go figure < 1326099749 437022 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you end up patching both < 1326099773 944826 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(though they were working on solutions to that problem, but I probably should not talk about them) < 1326100045 933796 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, so yeah, it only works from whatever happens to be the running kernel, if you can replicate a build environment for that kernel < 1326100056 482082 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's part of the value the commercial service added, versus the open-source tools < 1326100115 831718 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the admins at Billy Bob's Discount VPS and Fried Chicken probably don't have the time or skills to make a bug-compatible copy of the CentOS 5 kernel build environment < 1326100144 648770 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's true that it works on kernels which were built with no knowledge of ksplice < 1326100169 152761 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and we were proud of hot-patching machines which were last booted before the company or product existed < 1326100207 517988 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other interesting thing about ksplice is the way it ensures that you're not splicing a function that's currently in use < 1326100222 59787 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is basically, it scans every kernel stack < 1326100228 580309 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there's a bunch of subtlety and trickiness to that < 1326100283 746718 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :linux has this great feature called stop_machine which... does what it says on the tin < 1326100329 175969 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it gives your code complete control of the (OS-visible behavior of) processors < 1326100354 122418 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but of course it's tricky and buggy and double so if you're talking about supporting RHEL4 which means 2.6.9 < 1326100440 31205 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How long did Ksplice make a machine unresponsive, in bad cases? < 1326100442 724610 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Assuming it did.) < 1326100479 770631 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Virtuozzo 4 has a bug which makes stop_machine very slow < 1326100497 205777 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :other than that, it's probably a few ms at worst < 1326100510 610642 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lot of the prep work is done outside stop_machine < 1326100547 881870 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :loading the update (which is itself a kernel module) and matching the code < 1326100604 854315 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the stack check inside stop_machine fails, then it gives up the CPU before trying again < 1326100613 243925 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(obviously, because nothing's going to change if it doesn't) < 1326101034 106344 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1326101181 481794 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-252-1.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :... RHEL 4 is still supported oh my god why < 1326101433 958866 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1326101689 563324 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1326101941 151440 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326102143 785812 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326102237 287484 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What a smug yuppie kmc is. < 1326102264 110262 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1326102273 20211 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :some people are wrong about trains on the internet < 1326102659 968807 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :How did I not know about Hampture until now. < 1326102725 426553 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1326102784 775523 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326102888 404774 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, why? because people would pay for it :D < 1326103193 119676 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326103648 743756 :atrapado!~rdrp@95.169.240.66 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326103677 270692 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1326103862 925837 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326104124 672979 :atrapado!~rdrp@95.169.240.66 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you prefer python style nesting or c style nesting: tabs or {} ? < 1326104230 32086 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Python doesn't use tabs, it uses indentation. < 1326104267 265839 :atrapado!~rdrp@95.169.240.66 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you can use tabs < 1326104304 328516 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1326104392 508445 :atrapado!~rdrp@95.169.240.66 PRIVMSG #esoteric :any preference? < 1326104478 464126 :atrapado!~rdrp@95.169.240.66 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see that brackets are better for pasting code here < 1326104537 796257 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:16 < shachaf> Python doesn't use tabs, it uses indentation. < 1326104550 706789 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf wins the Pedantic Point of Year award. congratulations! < 1326104558 897139 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*the Year < 1326104568 161086 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assumed you were just Russian. < 1326104590 822152 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti wins generosity 2012 < 1326104633 773389 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no doubt because of my revolutionary searchlog tool of the year. < 1326105094 508014 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1326105483 883359 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1326105719 615310 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326105862 393655 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326105897 949540 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm… the department has been trying to persuade people (including me) to add "follow us on twitter: https://twitter.com/uobcompsci" to their signatures < 1326105912 988122 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, umm, I'm going to discharge my CIVIC DUTY by mentioning it once in #esoteric < 1326105935 807409 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's a UOB? < 1326105965 959155 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Choosing to Study MSc Computer Science at Birmingham was a life transforming decision for me." < 1326105987 995436 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :10 PRINT Tweets from the School of Computer Science at the University of Birmingham; 20 GOTO 10 < 1326106021 875225 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't actually read it; should I? < 1326106034 558047 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not much point. < 1326106069 471184 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1326106081 489964 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not actually entirely sure who runs that account < 1326106091 118325 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I /hope/ it's a consortium of staff, of which some are trolling the others < 1326106114 265910 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :They followers/followees ratio isn't as good as mine. < 1326106118 947830 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I assume that you detest Twitter and all who use it because of some technical faux pas or other they've made? < 1326106119 421963 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems a reasonably active account, though. < 1326106132 269946 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I don't actually detest Twitter at all < 1326106140 571485 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I'm annoyed at the way it uses JavaScript, that's about it < 1326106142 196715 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Latest own twat seems to be: "And so begins the countdown to the first personal hygiene related mail of the year." < 1326106151 945184 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :this looks interesting *loads log* < 1326106168 258103 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it's a recently started thing, too. < 1326106173 247826 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Load slog. < 1326106193 375828 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, that too < 1326106212 311249 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :They could retweet a couple of fungot tweets, that's always the sure road to success. < 1326106212 469993 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: like a very clear mirror to break, luckwise. it is a good idea. i will go and make a tent down a gas tank < 1326106253 269555 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: You've got like 19 followers. (Most of them seem to want to sell something.) < 1326106253 425813 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: you try again. you feel stupid and hate yourself a very official? you'll be up to your first time either. < 1326106255 538788 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: it wouldn't even be entirely offtopic < 1326106257 797845 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :only /mostly/ offtopic < 1326106296 160544 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: context is that the university I work for are trying to persuade its employees to put a link to their twitter account in their signatures < 1326106315 924887 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Heh, fungot tweeted "cfunge may already work that way" 12 hours ago. < 1326106316 119197 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: to the left is that house shape you've seen everything! i just can't get a clear shot and killed some powerful monsters with his new hammer < 1326106327 430773 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OMG fungot has twitteR?? < 1326106327 587063 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: a little later... a few minutes. wow he is so cool. two more large gizmos. it was once the island < 1326106330 125334 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*twitter < 1326106376 751159 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: E's even customized eir page background to have the source code in it. < 1326106391 257931 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Aren't you just the cleverest bot. *pat* < 1326106391 414355 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: his birthday is in a few minutes. wow he is so cool. two more large gizmos. it was once the island, but honestly i've only read a few books on it. < 1326106397 451542 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is no sense in which this is not the best. < 1326106435 11273 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1326106435 210113 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck* ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube < 1326106441 606234 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some day I should stick in more styles in the twitter-poster, it's only got four at the moment. < 1326106544 836795 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use all the styles! < 1326106632 760330 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal: context is that the university I work for are trying to persuade its employees to put a link to their twitter account in their signatures <-- I saw that in the log < 1326106654 442240 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal: Heh, fungot tweeted "cfunge may already work that way" 12 hours ago. <-- hm, did it specify what way? < 1326106654 598561 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: as a veteran of the game in the first place, so he can just button it < 1326106668 832688 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay that made perfect sense. < 1326106676 635030 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, also got a link to the twitter page? < 1326106701 19843 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: https://twitter.com/fungot -- and not really, though the previous "About IRC" tweet was: ":) i'll have none of that is not discrete. the server is in delphi right now" < 1326106701 175729 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: it is a hate so pure and... pumpkin seeds? < 1326106708 773442 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : OMG fungot has twitteR?? <-- yes, I had forgot about it though. Was ages ago it was last mentioned < 1326106708 929917 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: an old colonel lost, but a new brother gained. together they will ascend, each time you must be adventurin'. < 1326106726 539134 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well, definitely not about cfunge then < 1326106726 697677 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I guess it could be that cfunge is discrete? Or in Delphi? < 1326106750 778766 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, not the latter last I checked < 1326106757 894980 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The immediate preceding tweet was "About Chrono Trigger: him. and only the hero can wield your sword with you until then. would you mind if i walked around with you for a..." < 1326106758 212146 :rupsbant!~rupsbant@81.83.13.22 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326106765 740528 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure how that would be related to cfunge. < 1326106768 475052 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, and since it runs on a computer it is probably discrete yes < 1326106772 129304 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you wield swords in it often? < 1326106786 404455 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, in real life or in RPGs? < 1326106801 421563 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :In cfunge. With cfunge. I don't know, somehow related to cfunge. < 1326106804 136525 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :in real life I don't think I ever wielded a sword < 1326106806 990473 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor in cfunge < 1326106819 406263 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It could be a metaphorical sword, I guess. < 1326106824 999843 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :cfunge doesn't even implement SWORD (it could in 64-bit mode maybe?) < 1326106825 793154 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The sword of optimization, or something. < 1326106871 110336 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, that is probably one of those dual-edged things < 1326107141 217031 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Premature sword is bad. Sometimes it's best leave the sword to the compiler. It's often profitable to sword your algorithms instead of swording the implementation. A profile-guided sword can be more effective. Hmm. < 1326107250 582377 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite < 1326107383 339458 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, from #nethack, an object lesson of "be careful what you wish for": < 1326107383 339641 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric : dingo (Tou Hum Fem Neu) wished for "blessed fireproof +2 Staff of Aesculapius", on turn 992 < 1326107383 339745 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric : dingo (Tou Hum Fem Neu), 204 points, killed by touching The Staff of Aesculapius < 1326107400 463772 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries to understand the point of these java API docs: "This protected field is implementation specific." Why even document that it exists if you can't use it in a sane way? < 1326107439 818903 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I assume it says that protected field must exist just that you can't use it portably? < 1326107478 103031 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hah < 1326107508 294766 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, gah I haven't played nethack for over a year, which class is that staff for? Was it priest? < 1326107529 614657 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Healer. < 1326107531 994083 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1326107572 77788 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Asclepius (play /æsˈkliːpiəs/; Greek: Ἀσκληπιός Asklēpiós [asklɛːpiós]; Latin Aesculapius) is the God of Medicine and Healing in ancient Greek religion. -- The rod of Asclepius, a snake-entwined staff, remains a symbol of medicine today, --" < 1326107591 995123 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the snake-on-a-stick thing. < 1326107607 645929 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*One* of the snake-on-a-stick things. < 1326107627 293053 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes; but isn't the other one the snakes-on-a-stick? < 1326107635 579079 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, when I was small I used to think it was somehow related to doctors curing you from poisonous snake bites < 1326107646 905572 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I wasn't very clear on the details of it) < 1326107669 286051 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1326107678 336681 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, also that needs to be a movie < 1326108220 28441 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.plasticbrickautomaton.com/?id=87 < 1326108240 179080 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have seen this comic before, a long time ago, but it is now 10,000 times better. < 1326108242 321560 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, there still? < 1326108247 399774 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1326108282 326475 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I'm trying to make sense of java generics. If you have say Foo how do you say that T must be a class that implements interface Bar? < 1326108297 779425 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Foo < 1326108301 324581 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1326108313 720244 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, there is no way to specify more than one interface there? < 1326108322 745719 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Foo < 1326108335 655894 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1326108476 152218 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also while java does seem to have enum a lot of stuff seems to use plain integer constants instead, were enums added recently or something? < 1326108488 206963 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Java's one of the few languages that actually has proper notation for covariance and contravariance in templates < 1326108500 970414 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problems are a) nobody uses it, and b) the semantics are wrong < 1326108505 51026 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: In 1.5 (5.0), so that's reasonably recently. < 1326108507 602238 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1326108519 771104 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that explains why stuff like BorderLayout doesn't use it < 1326108679 5970 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Changing host < 1326108679 162332 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1326108718 729834 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm are the docs just incomplete or can't you specify the value if a enum constant? Like you can in C. < 1326108754 850860 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ^ < 1326108766 144243 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're free to add a field for any custom manually specified data. < 1326108773 85074 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then specify those in the constructors. < 1326108780 105623 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1326108789 706873 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :As for the "raw" integer values, I think those are always consecutive from 0..N. < 1326108809 799926 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well I need to match external values here, and they happen to be sparse so. Meh. < 1326108823 569600 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, add a field for it, then. < 1326108869 829802 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :for all: 0 is not a valid value for example. So either I would need a dummy value or just do it without enum < 1326108879 567874 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or adding a field for every one) < 1326108886 528358 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I mean. < 1326108935 136802 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :public enum Meh { ZONK(1), FLONK(42), BONK(1000); public final int zlorbvalue; Meh(int zlorb) { zlorbvalue = zlorb; } } .... Meh k = ZONK; ... dothezlorb(k.zlorbvalue); ... < 1326108937 711224 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sort of thing. < 1326108945 930200 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh you write it like that. Okay. < 1326108987 569237 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can make the constructor populate a static Map if you want to have a static method so you can have Meh.fromZlork(42) == Meh.FLONK. < 1326109021 118078 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, zlorb == zlork here. < 1326109028 403740 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1326109044 336270 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems like a rather hackish solution to handle this. < 1326109227 573361 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only built-in thing is the Meh.values() which returns a Meh[] where the indices correspond to the "ordinals" (i.e. the Meh.ZONK.ordinal() value); you can't really have a sparse set there. < 1326109237 662114 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you put some dummies in. < 1326109261 375834 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's slightly discouraged to care about the actual numeric values of the ordinals, anyway. < 1326109275 624926 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want something meaningful, you can put the meaningfulness in explicitly. < 1326109298 417101 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :also an issue I have with swing is figuring out what exactly an event listener triggers on. For some it is obvious, like mouseClicked, but what does an actionPerformed do on a JButton? < 1326109318 219154 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would assume it is when the button is activated either through the keyboard or the mouse? < 1326109531 772274 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :When it gets twoggled, yes; I'm sure they've documented that stuff somewhere. < 1326109579 14761 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"An action event occurs, whenever an action is performed by the user. Examples: When the user clicks a button, chooses a menu item, presses Enter in a text field. The result is that an actionPerformed message is sent to all action listeners that are registered on the relevant component." < 1326109593 406782 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Swing tutorial trail; I have no idea where it is in the reference docs.) < 1326109624 248262 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1326109705 341232 :nooga!~nooga@c35-253.icpnet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1326109812 752452 :atrapado!~rdrp@95.169.240.66 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1326109868 101702 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326110076 59112 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1326110361 95053 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326110438 33918 :rupsbant!~rupsbant@81.83.13.22 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1326110859 157332 :nooga!~nooga@c35-253.icpnet.pl QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1326111059 55146 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, right, I was mainly searching the reference docs for JButton and the ActionListener < 1326111065 118458 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would make sense if either of those had it < 1326111079 901352 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I also did look at super classes, AbstractButton or whatever it was) < 1326111174 769490 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, JButton's main documentation does link to the whole 'Action' thing (where you can bind a single action into multiple controls, to have menu items and buttons that do the same thing and all get "configured" from one source); as well as the "How to Use Buttons" tutorial snippets. < 1326111184 765763 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's "incorporated by reference", like the lawyers say. < 1326111200 12708 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm okay < 1326111269 563093 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, btw I realised that using enum is less convenient for another reason: I would end up casting to byte a lot then. < 1326111292 676156 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(unless you can set the backing type somehow) < 1326111333 924366 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not the ordinal, but of course the "zlorbvalue" can be a byte easily, if you want to have manually set values. < 1326111368 914804 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1326111516 156729 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, if you want to follow the conventions, in my example above you should have a private field + public getter method instead. < 1326111572 452593 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, also "turn" is a somewhat confusing name in a turn based game where the players alternate making moves. You can either think of it as the period of one player making their move ("your turn" popping up on screen for that player) or as the period until the cycle between the player starts over < 1326111583 36007 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :any good idea how to not confuse those two sense in naming < 1326111588 451509 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(of variables and so on) < 1326111638 759149 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really the best person to ask, given how I well and truly I confused those in the AI course framework. :p < 1326111649 37383 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1326111657 849590 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, you *could* use the technical term "ply", but that's also liable to confuse some. < 1326111670 593156 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, also makes no sense in the case of tank wars < 1326111671 542705 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1326111675 135250 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb food is ready < 1326111733 174542 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ply: In two-player sequential games, a "half-turn", or one move made by one of the players." (Wiktionary.) < 1326111748 204471 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: enums can have properties in Java < 1326111762 929185 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and even methods < 1326111769 865009 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: As seen in my enum Meh example, perhaps? < 1326111770 498817 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you could add your own getAsByte method on your enum < 1326111780 37536 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps < 1326111785 966455 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's quite a way back in scrollback, so I missed it < 1326111797 462244 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right; well, yes, you could return the ordinal as a byte, too. < 1326111799 397514 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't been following the conversation, and was trying to weigh in from a screenful of scrollback < 1326111821 325052 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The example was about having a sparse set of externally-meaningful numbers associated with each enum constant. < 1326111857 254004 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Of course if you still use "turn" for the "whole thing", it's still sort-of confusing, and I'm not sure if there's a ply-like specifically specific word for that. < 1326112140 607792 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : "ply: In two-player sequential games, a "half-turn", or one move made by one of the players." (Wiktionary.) <-- it is an n-player game though (for n up to suitable values on the current map, no restriction implemented in the server yet) < 1326112189 872595 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : I haven't been following the conversation, and was trying to weigh in from a screenful of scrollback <-- don't. elliott is going to complain a lot if you do that. He certainly does when I try to. < 1326112259 92998 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Completely unrelated: they've installed a new coffee machine in our "new" (fsvo) coffee room, and it's... certainly... a thing... http://www.comparestoreprices.co.uk/images/ju/jura-impressa-z5-coffee-machine.jpg < 1326112300 444594 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a slight suspicion that they've been bribed by the chemistry department to run some experiments, or something. There's no way a coffee machine needs that much machine. < 1326112316 414682 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Also it's not even network-connected.) < 1326112320 832545 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, for some values of coffee room? < 1326112335 639762 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1326112354 64869 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, was the old one network connected? < 1326112363 958844 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :For some values of "new". < 1326112386 287699 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And no, but it was just your regular water-heater/plate/pot thing. < 1326112421 422650 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1326112425 71614 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Grinding selection wheel (9) is also below the bean container cover. Instructions for adjusting the fineness of the grind are inside the container cover." < 1326112449 35604 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also a PDF guide attached. < 1326112452 423469 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it grinds the coffee bean on the fly? Impressive < 1326112465 484368 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Suddenly I'm delighted I don't drink coffee; now I don't need to learn this thing. < 1326112474 232936 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1326112497 913071 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can get "ristretto" out of it. (Apparently it's like espresso, except more.) < 1326112567 482542 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't drink coffee either. I'm not terribly clear on what you would get if you increased the espresso-ness of espresso. < 1326112586 537169 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The resultant shot could be described as bolder, fuller, with more body and less bitterness. All of these flavors are usually attributed to espresso in general, but are more pronounced in ristretto." < 1326112592 436234 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You get more "body" in it. < 1326112599 875832 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see. < 1326112601 842198 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose it's for mass-murderers instead of casual murderers? < 1326112606 570646 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly < 1326112678 434752 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm suspicious of fluids where people use anything more complicated than, say, "sweet" or "salty" or "like but sourer" or such to describe them. < 1326112704 619203 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wines are probably the worst example of that phenomenon. < 1326112973 846092 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This wine is among the less corpulent examples in the lineup. Citrusy, with a very distinct, snappy mineral character, it is round with good, well proprtioned acidity." < 1326114675 645371 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do I do guards without indentation? < 1326114697 857375 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hint don't indent < 1326114702 634773 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1326114704 79229 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean < 1326114706 775920 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :with { and } < 1326114872 64031 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yeah that sort of stuff < 1326114915 86396 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I question if whoever said that ever tried to eat a representative set of minerals for example. < 1326114949 592786 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I'm okay with "Citrusy" though. < 1326114974 112871 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, why don't you want to indent? < 1326114979 623182 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :IRC < 1326114990 9342 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm no idea how you do that < 1326115012 991548 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried let f n { | blah = blah; | blah = blah } < 1326115015 399340 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that didn't work < 1326115019 796510 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :remove the {;} < 1326115019 954868 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried let f n { | blah = blah | blah = blah } < 1326115021 706719 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't work either < 1326115033 405401 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :shouldn't the {} be for the code after rather than for the guards there? < 1326115036 459033 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :let f n | blah = blah | blah = blah < 1326115038 781289 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would assume so at least < 1326115059 847645 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let f n | n == True = 1 | n == False = 2 in f True < 1326115060 3779 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (=) < 1326115060 560571 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let f n | n == 0 = 1 | n == 2 = 3; g = f in g 2 < 1326115060 719218 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1 < 1326115060 916406 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :parse error on input `=' < 1326115061 426266 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 3 < 1326115064 468766 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh... okay. < 1326115065 577213 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm that saddens me < 1326115076 885264 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(makes sense of course) < 1326116026 863015 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let fibs = 0 : 1 : zipWith (+) (tail fibs) (fibs); parfib n = last $ withStrategy (parList rwhnf) (take n fibs) in parfib 10000 < 1326116027 655755 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 207936082371334980721126489886428368250870360940159031196829458665285014234... < 1326116049 277055 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let fibs = 0 : 1 : zipWith (+) (tail fibs) (fibs); parfib n = last $ withStrategy (parList rpar) (take n fibs) in parfib 10000 < 1326116050 232540 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 207936082371334980721126489886428368250870360940159031196829458665285014234... < 1326116058 972261 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if that actually does anything. < 1326116106 4547 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let fibs = 0 : 1 : zipWith (+) (tail fibs) (fibs); parfib n = last $ withStrategy (parList rpar) (take n fibs) in parfib 100000000000000 < 1326116107 753420 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : *Exception: stack overflow < 1326116119 193343 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let fibs = 0 : 1 : zipWith (+) (tail fibs) (fibs); parfib n = last $ withStrategy (parList rpar) (take n rwhnf) in parfib 100000000000000 < 1326116120 304432 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `[a]' < 1326116120 464523 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred type `Control.P... < 1326116150 487213 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let fibs = 0 : 1 : zipWith (+) (tail fibs) (fibs); parfib n = last $ withStrategy (parList rwhnf) (take n fibs) in parfib 100000000000000 < 1326116152 436212 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : *Exception: stack overflow < 1326116153 708288 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let fibs = 0 : 1 : zipWith (+) (tail fibs) (fibs); parfib n = last $ withStrategy (parList rwhnf) (take n fibs) in parfib 1000000000000 < 1326116155 497805 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : *Exception: stack overflow < 1326116156 929379 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let fibs = 0 : 1 : zipWith (+) (tail fibs) (fibs); parfib n = last $ withStrategy (parList rwhnf) (take n fibs) in parfib 10000000000 < 1326116158 680955 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : *Exception: stack overflow < 1326116160 472766 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let fibs = 0 : 1 : zipWith (+) (tail fibs) (fibs); parfib n = last $ withStrategy (parList rwhnf) (take n fibs) in parfib 1000000 < 1326116162 228074 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : *Exception: stack overflow < 1326116163 341097 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1326116165 287567 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is done. < 1326116269 149444 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think that'd have worked anyway. < 1326116445 79508 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it works on the smaller inputs. but maybe that's not what you mean? < 1326116450 53408 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has never used parallell strategies before. < 1326116478 461693 :Slereah!~butt@ANantes-259-1-217-73.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARE YOU FIBBING BOY? < 1326116488 622414 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1326116501 900961 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: I don't know that it's making any difference. < 1326116508 926880 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I don't know. < 1326116548 599636 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt it is. < 1326116680 167544 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the term for when you put "use caution but not too much;" or something in the beginning of all your code snippets even though you don't know what it means just because you've always done it and you don't want to break anything? < 1326116699 856213 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie once told me a term for it i think < 1326116752 328379 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt any actual parallelism is going on. the individual elements are evaluated too quickly. < 1326116801 536308 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if say, calculating the nth fibonacci element requires non-constant amount of work and also depending on the value of N-1 and N-2, then you could take advantage of parallism. but it's just.. addition. < 1326116860 294415 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: this is so very important < 1326116933 575690 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326116955 404622 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this a good place to ask for help with homework questions? < 1326116959 17591 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1326116966 455309 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :if they have to do with symbolic dynamics < 1326116971 537793 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1326116980 251300 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if they have to do with basic functional programming? < 1326116985 336423 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1326116991 95640 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's trickier. < 1326117009 146695 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, why would you need help on that? Or is it for dealing with marking such homework questions? < 1326117016 951953 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I can't solve one of them < 1326117021 306394 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is tricky, given that I'm meant to mark it < 1326117024 442885 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1326117038 917232 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's https://sites.google.com/site/focs1112/programming-assignments week 11 question 2 < 1326117046 264131 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I'm quite interested to hear what it is then. And how students are expected to understand it < 1326117047 377221 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not necessarily looking for the solution, just some pointers < 1326117051 878839 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I /suspect/ the question is impossible) < 1326117065 647698 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: I don't know which term I might have told you. Unless you mean cargo cult programming. < 1326117077 694964 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's very easy < 1326117085 802079 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :amortized is the key term < 1326117086 917873 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: double-ended? that's what's stumping me < 1326117093 772331 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is that it has to be based on an interaction net queue < 1326117100 141066 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1326117104 32072 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're allowed to do it in amortized constant time using any method you like, it's easy < 1326117120 366173 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can do question 1, which asks for the same operations using a different underlying data structure < 1326117128 568698 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1326117140 181086 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not familiar with the term "interaction net queue". What is that? < 1326117143 401512 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's an interaction net queue+ < 1326117145 627684 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1326117147 693887 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: do you know about difference lists in Prolog? < 1326117148 491295 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1326117152 73401 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, nope < 1326117161 270140 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I don't really know any prolog < 1326117176 949202 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from a few basics things about the syntax < 1326117180 122733 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't the point of a difference lists exactly that you can make a queue with it? < 1326117180 758905 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, let's see, the concept is that you represent a queue (front)1,2,3,4(back) as lambda x. cons(1, cons(2, cons(3, cons(4, x)))) < 1326117183 393320 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i once coded in prolog < 1326117185 60667 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: indeed < 1326117199 375129 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's called an interaction net queue in the lists, for reasons I don't really understand < 1326117204 858510 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm. That is just a linked list < 1326117219 469522 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well circular one < 1326117221 700863 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also, it's not constant time or even amortized constant time in a language with OCaml's execution order, which is a more minor flaw in the question) < 1326117221 860034 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :no? < 1326117226 243085 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: err, no? < 1326117239 128366 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see how you'd consider lambda x. cons(1, cons(2, cons(3, cons(4, x)))) to be a circular linked list at all < 1326117251 738929 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what does the last x mean then? < 1326117263 866861 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's connected to the lambda x at the start < 1326117265 822318 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this isn't scheme syntax, which language is it? < 1326117266 934510 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1326117269 73154 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, a circular linked list would be Y (cons 1 . cons 2 . cons 3 . cons 4). < 1326117288 972724 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, this is mind-bogglingly dense, even by your standards. < 1326117290 757719 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, hm. Okay right, I see that < 1326117296 25682 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the former not the latter) < 1326117325 653631 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the usual way to write push-at-tail of x onto q would be lambda x'. q(cons(x, x') < 1326117332 422080 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/$/)/ < 1326117336 931784 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay, now it makes sense < 1326117346 202848 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :push-at-tail is easy; push-at-head is easy; pop-from-head is easy < 1326117353 111872 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but pop-from-tail, I don't see how to get via that mechanism at all < 1326117375 751331 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :other than popping the entire queue into a temporary data structure, which is of course not constant time even in a superstrict language < 1326117387 778753 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, the naive solution is simple enough, and you just said it as I was writing it out... < 1326117402 199312 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but the question specifically disallows that < 1326117474 436161 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I guess there's programmers here who would find week 11 question 3 easier than week 11 question 1 < 1326117491 558278 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I assume you aren't allowed to use debugging modules or such to mutate the linked list? < 1326117494 775050 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it basically comes down to "implement an imperative doubly-linked list", which is something people here have done a lot < 1326117504 608401 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's not really a linked list < 1326117509 527016 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well okay < 1326117511 310864 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, it /is/, but of lambda bodies < 1326117524 764714 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's not mathematically a linked list, even though it's going to be represented like that by an OCaml interp < 1326117543 848383 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, which would be the relevant part for the debugging modules anyway < 1326117581 828030 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, OCaml does allow mutation; that's what question 3's about < 1326117589 485850 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just that's not the underlying impl you're meant to use in question 2 < 1326117596 505415 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1326117606 706993 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is trivial to do this with mutation indeed. < 1326117628 843183 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :trivial but ugly, IMO < 1326117634 292079 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes < 1326117643 792151 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I won't post my solution to that (and nor should you) in case some student of mine happens across it < 1326117660 345399 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I couldn't do it in ocaml, don't really know that language < 1326117665 583685 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could do it in scheme though < 1326117668 158838 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you have stacks, it seems very easy to do this, just keep the list in two stacks, one for the left half, one for the right, and balance when necessary < 1326117688 400896 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: that's the answer to question 1 < 1326117693 123020 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which asks you to do it like that < 1326117707 138379 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh okay < 1326117734 54987 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm. You could implement it with a balanced binary tree too. < 1326117761 249664 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well not exactly binary tree, it wouldn't be sorted as such based on keys < 1326117766 275891 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 , Skype: patashu0 . < 1326117776 869361 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: there's nothing inherently sorted about a binary tree < 1326117787 178074 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although using them to maintain lists in sorted order is one of their main applications < 1326117808 328117 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed, I'm used to thinking about a key in a binary tree, this one wouldn't have one < 1326117813 357261 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that is binary search tree < 1326117817 186646 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is indeed different < 1326117836 121744 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw trees are awesome < 1326117860 210573 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: But if you *can* do a deque in amortized constant time with two stacks, *and* you can do a stack with constant-time push and pop with your "interaction net queue", why wouldn't a deque implemented with two "interaction-net-queue stacks" suffice for the question? < 1326117860 567842 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :this one time i made a red-black tree visualization where the nodes would move to their new places by applying force in that direction < 1326117867 431366 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :balancing looked awesome < 1326117872 86789 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, nice < 1326117894 443556 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i also made a binary heap, merge was like the best thing ever :D < 1326117898 827325 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: because you can make a queue from two stacks, but you can't make a stack from two queues < 1326117910 166337 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, you should try that on other tree variants to see which one looks coolest and then in the future decide which variant to use based on how it looks < 1326117916 392792 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, so AVL, AA and so on < 1326117924 930018 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you had two windows for building heaps and you could then merge them) < 1326117937 206453 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: did the red-black tree visualisation actually use red and black? < 1326117944 90906 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes < 1326117952 419858 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I should learn what a red-black tree is someday < 1326117955 553217 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know what AA is < 1326117956 186886 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes, but you just said push-at-head and pop-from-head are both "easy". < 1326117958 130985 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if I know the concept already but not the name < 1326117960 393180 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: learn 2,3 trees instead < 1326117964 716178 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you already do < 1326117977 91670 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :do learn them, that is. whatever that means. < 1326117982 366535 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: right, but then you're not using the interactionnetiness at all < 1326117987 161520 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, what are 2,3-trees now again= < 1326117990 796161 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which probably doesn't count as a solution to the question < 1326117991 113299 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/=/?/ < 1326117998 171731 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1326118011 554952 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :when i said 2,3 trees i suppose i meant avl trees. let's see what's what... < 1326118031 908322 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I suppose, if you're debating intention; though literally speaking it just says "starting from the implementation", nothing else. Though wouldn't it be easier to just ask whoever made the question? < 1326118041 901510 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i meant avl tree < 1326118052 286556 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :avl trees are a sensible version of red-black trees < 1326118054 676362 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I did ask, but I didn't get a useful answer < 1326118057 848499 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, do you often see unusual and clever solutions to the questions that you didn't expect btw? < 1326118069 47478 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: often, no < 1326118071 949918 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I do occasionally < 1326118088 360763 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: apparently 2,3 trees are essentially the same as aa trees. < 1326118093 813469 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, when I got bored in basic programming courses I spent some time thinking up non-obvious and superior solutions to the expected ones. < 1326118101 412085 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, ah okay. How do they differ then? < 1326118109 280342 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you get bonus marks for shorter or faster solutions than the other students on this course < 1326118129 302219 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shorter in terms of token count, where whitespace and comments don't count as tokens < 1326118129 976244 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have implemented pretty much every kind of balanced binary tree. i decided avl was the ost sensible (though splay trees are a cool idea nonetheless) < 1326118135 354261 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i don't know how they differ because i didn't quite check what they are. < 1326118142 800619 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that is strange. In Sweden at least I'm pretty sure the laws say that grading should not be competitive. < 1326118147 181413 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :just that they aren't avl trees. < 1326118148 133742 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not so in UK I guess? < 1326118160 145137 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: oh, the way it's done here is that the marks aren't binding < 1326118164 860287 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're really points, rather than marks < 1326118168 956402 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1326118170 544610 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :grading should totally be competitive < 1326118177 880799 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they are competitive, but don't have any direct input into the final grade on the course < 1326118199 225254 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, then what is the point? Making sure everyone passes a minimum level? < 1326118210 5657 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and doesn't this mean you encourages golfing btw? :D < 1326118212 543146 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :trying to encourage people to get better at the course < 1326118214 723509 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and sure, I noticed that < 1326118223 175769 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and didn't at all try to discourage the people in charge of the course from doing it < 1326118238 516449 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1326118253 531332 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone sniped a bunch of marks early by using "float" rather than "float_of_int"; it's the same number of tokens, but the first executes marginally faster < 1326118253 687913 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, hm < 1326118254 841956 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Our AI course competition results have no bearing for grading either, but it doesn't stop it from being quite a fundamental motivational thing. < 1326118259 393418 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think ais' exact words on the subject were "MWAHAHAHA" < 1326118278 978864 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what on earth is float_of_int? < 1326118286 242114 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: a conversion routine < 1326118289 616354 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1326118291 908081 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :takes an int as an argument, returns a float with the same value < 1326118300 317403 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, true < 1326118308 768529 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :all OCaml's conversion routines are named like that, except for the ones that aren't (which may be an empty set, I can no longer remember) < 1326118325 829392 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :float_of_float < 1326118351 214928 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Possibly you might encourage people even more if you called them "achievements". That seems to work in getting people to do completely pointless tasks. < 1326118363 313643 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: right, but achievements tend to be booleans < 1326118382 277425 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can have a hundred of them < 1326118399 104597 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and just using float does what? < 1326118415 687910 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes there's sort-of a grade. One achievement of "did X in one minute", one for "did X in 30 seconds", one for "did X in 15 seconds", and so on. < 1326118429 119712 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: exactly the same thing < 1326118448 903082 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's some older primitive, and I suspect float_of_int's implemented in terms of it < 1326118453 462774 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1326118453 818541 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wish the people who make these horrible mmorpgs did something useful with their lives and made achievement unlocked 4 < 1326118471 623429 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did they make a 3? I must've missed that. < 1326118475 431136 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a third one? < 1326118501 675995 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :google returned stuff for 3 so :D < 1326118594 499227 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: oh and yes, that's the term i meant. < 1326118629 701766 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't get the third one to run. Weird. < 1326118656 405905 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :try the next link < 1326118660 212525 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The first hit (at muchgames.com) seems to be just #2 titled as #3. < 1326118673 97228 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :While the achievementunlocked3.com didn't work for me either. < 1326118682 554559 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed that was the one I looked at < 1326118683 663369 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i haven't played 2 so okay < 1326118777 818595 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, And Yet It Moves, along with its achievement called Gregor, also has an achievement called Random < 1326118782 211872 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I think just you get randomly < 1326118839 707622 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, wait HashMap gives a syntax error on int? < 1326118841 929056 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1326118844 944201 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it works with Integer < 1326118853 276512 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, because Integer extends Object. < 1326118855 184369 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it required a boxed type? < 1326118855 660222 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :'int' doesn't. < 1326118857 921337 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess so < 1326118864 229249 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: doesn't work with primitives < 1326118866 480578 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :strange it is a /syntax/ error though < 1326118869 216421 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :All generics need "real" objects. < 1326118875 483133 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: int is a keyword < 1326118879 531970 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, I forgot generics were just a compiler thing < 1326118884 330058 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you generally can't use keywords in arbitrary contexts < 1326118888 292996 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :as opposed to actually existing in the byte code. < 1326118892 950019 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell elliott Oh, damn, the Raspberry Pi has a minimum order quantity of one unit. I GUESS WE ALL HAVE TO GET ONE NOW. < 1326118893 266804 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1326118897 486129 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :THAT GOES FOR THE REST OF YOU < 1326119010 485639 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You can't put an "int" into an old-style non-generic ArrayList either. Primitives are very special. < 1326119096 740761 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does do that autoboxing, though, so you can use an HashMap pretty much like you'd use a hypothetical HashMap, at least as long as you don't care about efficiency. < 1326119222 455454 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Speaking of which: given enum Moo, then an EnumMap is likely to be fasterer than a HashMap, if you need to map that way.) < 1326119320 314753 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I didn't need that here. I was mapping player ids to player objects < 1326119360 937842 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this set might be sparse if a client disconnects btw) < 1326119594 35520 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, it seems that there's a sort of self-balancing tree called a scapegoat tree < 1326119618 626400 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I'm wondering if it'd be useful for the VCS, just due to the naming coincidence < 1326119634 743961 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the problem is that self-balancing trees are one of those things that aren't obviously useless in any complex program) < 1326119672 986555 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1326119776 290916 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, maybe if memory efficiency is important and you have a lot of very nodes with very small keys and data? < 1326119785 808272 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I remember looking that up and getting really confused when Scapegoat first turned up. < 1326119805 351350 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1326119818 479571 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/very// < 1326119821 862743 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: the main thing that self-balancing trees have to compete with is hash tables < 1326119845 762193 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, the problem with hash tables is the worst case complexity is not very good < 1326119879 128223 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, but the worst case also doesn't happen in practice, barring malicious input < 1326119882 301243 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes even including malicious input < 1326119912 329064 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm I guess a hash table with an self balanced tree per bucket might be a good compromise? < 1326119915 410070 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Perhaps you can invent some bogus reason why you need to iterate your map in sorted order too, and justify trees with that. < 1326119923 295566 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, rather than the usual linked list per bucket < 1326119942 701640 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: that's generally inferior to just rebuilding the hash table to have more buckets < 1326119964 928941 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"But what if the user wants to list all (anythings) in SHA-X order? It's important we have an efficient way to do that." < 1326119966 918773 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're ever getting a nontrivial number of keys in the same bucket, then either you've hit a pathological worst case or your hash table is more small < 1326119970 498081 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in practice, usually the latter < 1326119975 225026 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well yes, but you have to be able to handle the case where both items hash to the exact same hash < 1326119997 970371 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: right < 1326120008 470367 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :IMO hashes should be infinitely long to allow for that issue < 1326120014 105718 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and truncated for use in hash tables < 1326120020 571685 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1326120082 42482 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(anyway this won't be an issue with, say, sha256, but that is kind of slow so depending on what you are using the hash table for a faster hash might be better) < 1326120138 493583 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think hash tables normally use cryptohash < 1326120158 70136 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1326120174 127517 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :for that very reason too < 1326120188 371233 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Perl uses a fast hash operation with random parameters, so that collisions are hard to find due to not knowing precisely which hash function is being used < 1326120209 340736 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have objects for which you need to keep around SHA-256 hashes for other reasons, it's reasonably natural to use those as hash table keys too. < 1326120209 867569 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and I assume, or at least hope, that there's no reasonable way to find a hash collision that works for all the possible hash functions) < 1326120236 297119 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, selected per session or what? < 1326120252 955399 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :per invocation of the perl(1) interpreter < 1326120265 288099 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, that is what I meant < 1326120279 26073 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can set the seed via env var if you need repeatability < 1326120290 642405 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for, e.g., order of iteration over keys) < 1326120295 982268 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just use wol < 1326120313 24290 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"just" < 1326120339 349956 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well okay < 1326120364 930460 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :setting an env var seems easier than using a program nobody but me dares run < 1326120378 954862 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I keep expanding that to wake-on-lan. < 1326120382 774672 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1326120398 705285 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hah, yes < 1326120751 814085 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, there's a WoWLAN; a wake-on-wireless-LAN thing. (Nobody does it.) < 1326120784 825785 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, nobody supports it hm. Well not strange < 1326120806 636478 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, actually I seem to remember seeing that as a BIOS option on some system at some point. < 1326120809 200213 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some Intel chips can do it. < 1326120810 388546 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm can't remember which one < 1326120816 822905 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :my laptop? My dad's laptop? < 1326120817 970334 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1326120825 424534 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I have intel wireless so... < 1326121001 591353 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How. Does. XKCDBucket. Know. About. Agora. < 1326121017 133342 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also. Why. Am. I. Being. Overdramatic. About. This. < 1326121028 428627 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1326121403 915222 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may require sleep < 1326121450 754689 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"IN NO IST LAT WHEY CRATICT FROURE BIRS GROCID PONDENOME OF DEMONSTURES OF THE REPTAGIN IS REGOACTIONA OF CRE." Claude E. Shannon, 1948. < 1326121538 304764 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run words 15 # close kinship here < 1326121544 811207 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :hun rungummimne exsto akesta lita dccclxivt erlayali thema brism gewa unspoii putobolle llle roninglobu idnen < 1326121581 135786 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*heuristic < 1326121659 959811 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"THE HEAD AND IN FRONTAL ATTACK ON AN ENGLISH WRITER THAT THE CHARACTER OF THIS POINT IS THEREFORE ANOTHER METHOD FOR THE LETTERS THAT THE TIME OF WHO EVER TOLD THE PROBLEM FOR AN UNEXPECTED." Shannon again, in the same paper. < 1326121667 286809 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Did you by any chance know this guy? < 1326121667 442744 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: a well mannered query to ask what your names are. probably as a special boon for being so great. < 1326121715 473330 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-12-141.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1326121715 790784 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-12-141.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1326121715 946866 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1326121731 769756 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1326122094 241272 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, In java: why is there both Color.BLACK and Color.black and which one is preferred? Neither is marked deprecated in the reference docs. < 1326122103 443143 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(same goes for the other predefined colours) < 1326122104 752241 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I don't know < 1326122108 205881 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm okay < 1326122201 340561 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Color.BLACK: Since: 1.4. So that's why. < 1326122211 648857 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, that's a reasonably poor "why", but anyway. < 1326122241 966995 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :If they'd deprecate one, they'd probably deprecate the does-not-follow-the-conventions lowercase one. < 1326122480 677780 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1326122956 613820 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326122962 609510 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1326122963 720248 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523 < 1326123558 40429 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1326123606 287609 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326125637 320380 :KingOfKarlsruhe!~chatzilla@p5B131EC9.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326125677 823872 :kallisti!~eris@gate-22.spsu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1326125678 300527 :kallisti!~eris@gate-22.spsu.edu QUIT :Changing host < 1326125678 456509 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1326125885 54623 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I've got about 2 hours between classes to do homework or study in the library. < 1326125901 123769 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I decided every day I'm going to come in here and, if I'm not too busy, pick up something and read it. < 1326125920 509356 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION currently has the Computer Music Journal. < 1326127326 786612 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326127330 278009 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1326127331 547913 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523 < 1326127389 480683 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :This "predict words from initial prefixes" text input keeps trying to say "cocks" whenever I start something with "co". < 1326127497 135516 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ct" it predicts as "cthulhu". I think it has some sort of a learning system. < 1326127525 822364 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, how many words start with ct? < 1326127591 188768 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :13 nouns, according to WordNet. < 1326127607 378541 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And one adjective. < 1326127620 866549 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :All /proper/ nouns? And/or cocks? < 1326127624 526880 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's very generous with the definition of "word". < 1326127685 28891 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ctenophore. < 1326127715 25350 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org TOPIC #esoteric :Official revolting channel of the inverse femtobarn stupid topic change CP violation, the original Trilogy: A new PHP (now with cocksthulu) | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1326127717 535328 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/fgjP < 1326127781 956475 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, where is that predictive input btw? < 1326127792 647770 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It suggests "cc65" for plain "c", so I'm thinking I'm still justified in believing it learns. < 1326127810 750986 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: N900. As far as they go, it's not the most impressive one. < 1326127823 157695 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, you write "cocks" a lot? And cc65? < 1326127859 278476 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure I'd say "a lot", but I've no clue how it picks candidates. < 1326127876 369379 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what would cc65 even be? < 1326127876 525998 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm likely to have written both words at least once. < 1326127896 267165 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a silly C compiler for 6502 and others. < 1326127900 117776 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1326127922 772511 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've used it's assembler as a standalone thing, there's not too much wrong with it. < 1326127947 328614 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The compiler itself, as far as I've understood, is not terribly impressive. < 1326127970 410095 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1326127983 40394 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, trying to think of things using 6502 atm... < 1326127991 80072 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :C64. NES. < 1326128000 160573 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, NES is a close relative. < 1326128000 795516 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant modernish things < 1326128004 801951 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ohhhh. < 1326128022 619691 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I was going like "is it used in embedded things?" < 1326128027 420405 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so on < 1326128048 555801 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326128054 350161 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they make some related microcontrollers still. But those applications don't tend to advertise the CPU so much. < 1326128061 816979 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1326128062 609129 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1326128140 901147 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523 < 1326128146 886365 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think some modernish thing used the 65C816, a 16-bit derivative. < 1326128167 497304 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and the Terminator (from the movie of same name) runs on a 6502. :p < 1326128168 964678 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1326128183 80782 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what, do they say that in the movie? < 1326128189 35956 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so that is just silly < 1326128199 10169 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can see 6502 assembly scrolling down when they show its eye-cam thing. < 1326128205 768591 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1326128211 862041 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what does the program in question do? < 1326128212 920805 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't mean it runs on a 6502 < 1326128214 585295 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :They probably just wanted something techy-looking. < 1326128217 361976 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just that it thinks in 6502 asm < 1326128251 598420 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Apparently it's an Apple DOS 3.3 disassembly. < 1326128278 667834 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Also shown is the output from a run of an Apple checksum program called KEY PERFECT 4.0, published in Nibble magazine." < 1326128288 574315 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, no it doesn't mean that at all. It might just as well mean that 6502 asm display is part of the output from the visual circuits. < 1326128305 963869 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Futurama's Bender is explicitly stated to have a 6502 for a brain. < 1326128310 451105 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, not that it /thinks/ in that < 1326128352 211234 :anders!anders@unaffiliated/anders PART :#esoteric < 1326128768 326232 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1326128854 539861 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1326129574 738071 :anders!anders@unaffiliated/anders JOIN :#esoteric < 1326130361 601319 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu < 1326131220 129598 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, so the alcohol is actually for coolant? < 1326131246 705847 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Bender is basically Project E.U.N.U.C.H. advanced 1000 years? < 1326132192 347260 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-148-60.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326132201 402870 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-252-1.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1326132675 845727 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1326133142 260438 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326133691 253635 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1326133980 283188 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-158-142.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326133993 417398 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-148-60.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1326134032 895736 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326134257 746757 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326134274 604005 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1326134298 686413 :MSleep!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net NICK :MDude < 1326134333 744061 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1326134383 431034 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Spam spam. < 1326134404 322483 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Evening, elliott < 1326134409 138064 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@JFritsch: No PRNG consults an external source for each number; you just get the seed from there. You can create values of type StdGen (an instance of RandomGen) from a seed, and there's a global generator in IO presumably seeded from an external source. – ehird yesterday < 1326134409 293246 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1326134409 293443 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1326134409 293547 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ehird for P RNGs you are certainly right. Otherwise "no" is a bit strong :D sqrtech.com. Good randomness is an issue in a web2.0 world and IO plays a heavy role in it. – J Fritsch 10 hours ago < 1326134409 449825 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknown command, try @list < 1326134409 613804 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. < 1326134409 769638 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknown command, try @list < 1326134455 573918 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Did you see how I summoned conal? < 1326134462 283365 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:37 < shachaf> rwbarton: Back in my day, reading a file *denoted* something! < 1326134462 440033 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:38 < conal> shachaf: :) < 1326134467 980321 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: :D < 1326134479 12032 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if conal has "denote" on ping. < 1326134484 255450 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I asked him. < 1326134486 479510 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :He claims not. < 1326134507 399144 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :But he does have "*denote" on ping. < 1326134516 399242 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoops, I was only going to say "spam" today. < 1326134519 31458 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe he always has #haskell open on one monitor, but the words don't mean anything most of the time. < 1326134520 454894 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Broke that rule pretty fast X_X < 1326134536 447931 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Remember how you asked me about 20 hours ago if I slept? < 1326134566 680679 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1326134580 508044 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I'm sure you can guess what I haven't done since then. < 1326134589 147935 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Talked? < 1326134602 553165 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Special:Recentchanges holy CRAP, somebody teach atrapado about preview < 1326134798 739782 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Good lawd < 1326134801 323096 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why < 1326134806 459444 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why would you do that < 1326134818 745967 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, can I add quotes from other channels? < 1326134838 795909 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 1 < 1326134841 901738 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :1) I used computational linguistics to kill her. < 1326134855 295118 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I'm quoted from the MC server < 1326134860 295596 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1326134863 470806 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may as well not, anyway < 1326134864 264057 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Functors are not very interesting by themselves" < 1326134864 740662 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote communism < 1326134868 615945 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :487) This staircase is very good for correcting people's opininons about communism < 1326134872 893617 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what quote? < 1326134893 972212 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yeah, as Gregor is implying, a bunch of old quotes are from elsewhere < 1326134921 108741 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quote 1 turned out to be a bad example since that's exactly the kind of thing people would say in #esoteric ... < 1326134925 102337 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : welcome to the internet its this this that the depatment of defense.... well, we'll skip that people look at kittens sometimes < 1326134940 84036 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: "As of 2011, the W65C816S [that 16-bit 65(C)02 derivative] is available from WDC in a 40 pin PDIP or PLCC44 package, as well as a core for ASIC integration (for example Winbond's W55V9x series of TV Edutainment ICs)." So at least those they still make. Not sure if anyone's still using the 65C02 cores, maybe. < 1326134942 28171 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably not good enough quality to add < 1326134952 586286 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's still surprisingly insightful < 1326134965 701814 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :The quotes aren't supposed to be insightful. < 1326134968 334034 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ex: < 1326134968 981884 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1326134972 610003 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :209) "* There is no scientifically-justifiable reason to exclude pornography, which is a vital part of the web ecosystem. However, bear in mind that we're tracing JavaScript, not MPEG and JPEG decoding." ^^^ This bullet-point is my crowning achievement as as a scientist. < 1326134981 637008 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is that not insightful? < 1326135006 527538 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, shouldn't it be <<< not ^^^ when the quote's collapsed into a single line like that? < 1326135014 643677 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "its this this that the depatment of defense...." what < 1326135027 767138 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: an attempt to explain the Internet, before getting bored and summarising < 1326135035 839108 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :X_X < 1326135038 772580 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :implication's that it's starting with the history < 1326135040 729006 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, put some commas in randomly < 1326135041 523569 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like summaries often do < 1326135042 559098 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're on different wavelengths here. < 1326135050 129828 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi Gregor < 1326135067 631093 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :HELLIOTT < 1326135088 841306 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: My monad spiel is now my top SO answer. < 1326135104 996047 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will have to kill the guy who asked it if he doesn't accept it, as currently it is my only top answer with a white background. < 1326135106 820117 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1326135107 137746 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1326135107 614576 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1326135107 933273 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1326135108 409504 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1326135110 679624 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_< < 1326135122 785303 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :262) (the former is a very deep theorem, i'd have had to read the whole book to understand it, so i didn't.) < 1326135129 286762 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Does "white background" mean "not accepted"? < 1326135156 848887 :cheater_!~cheater@178-26-46-133-dynip.superkabel.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1326135219 343853 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Yes. < 1326135231 871444 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :168) < ais523> then running repeatedly until you get the right sequence of random numbers < ais523> and just completely ignoring the input <-- some people live their entire lives this way, i reckon < 1326135232 69103 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :289) zzo38: you missed the point. the point was way stupider than that. < 1326135234 755614 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :52) Maternal instincts? Don't you just leave the thing in a box until it starts crying, and then shake it until it stops? < 1326135234 914476 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :641) sadhu: it's been said that boole is the crowning jewel perched precariously upon the perfect peak of programmer prowess, casting its limitless limpid light over the loathesome lands of those who scuff and wallow in the dreary dust of digital depravity and unbounded wilful ignorance of the testament of our lord jesus christ into your life. < 1326135249 811768 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: In a discussion about GCing lazy I/O handles so that readFile doesn't fail when you have too many open files: < 1326135251 980139 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1326135260 156720 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:49 < shachaf> You could fork when you're about to have too many FDs open. :-) < 1326135263 292391 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:49 < rwbarton> yes! let's spawn a new process and hand it file descriptors over unix sockets! :D < 1326135266 766928 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:49 < rwbarton> Too bad kmc isn't here, he'd love this. < 1326135311 114903 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ow. < 1326135312 434481 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :My brain. < 1326135320 631955 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastlog running repeatedly until you get the right sequence of random numbers < 1326135324 955948 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, is kmc also in #esoteric nowadays? < 1326135327 260083 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I want to know context for that < 1326135357 962063 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: No, you're imagining things. < 1326135358 118637 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2010-09-17.txt:20:33:11: 220| < ais523> then running repeatedly until you get the right sequence of random numbers < ais523> and just completely ignoring the input <-- some people live their entire lives this way, i reckon < 1326135364 863861 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I see < 1326135369 549955 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot < 1326135369 709720 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: his birthday is in a few minutes. wow he is so cool. two more large gizmos. it was once the island for the first time in i don't have a very exciting 24 hours or so. it'll just take a few tools out behind the woodshed and give it what the tablet asks, while the more recessive find less representation in the brood. especially strong matesprit? hahahaha! < 1326135375 814704 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Homestuck? < 1326135377 729929 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1326135377 887266 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck* ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube < 1326135380 944237 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Knew it < 1326135389 946202 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was "birthday" that clued me in < 1326135390 898361 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style europarl < 1326135391 54929 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: europarl (European Parliament speeches during approx. 1996-2006) < 1326135393 639123 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastlog then running repeatedly until you get the right sequence of random numbers < 1326135395 783733 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I like that style < 1326135396 617322 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's been homestuck on that style for so long. < 1326135400 471975 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2010-09-11.txt:17:34:14: then running repeatedly until you get the right sequence of random numbers < 1326135401 986413 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: tell me more < 1326135402 179209 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: HO HO HO HO HO HO HO HO < 1326135404 963582 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: HA < 1326135405 211565 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: obviously, the name given to the contact and support network, one of the sectors which interest you. you do not need any new officials to do that successfully, our interests are better protected than the potential average national rates if they had their own pensions. since 1 july last year, but equally unable to prove it is not possible to get this far. i agree with this if the regions, of course, everything that conce < 1326135410 732056 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: I mistabbed you! < 1326135415 563959 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: HA. < 1326135417 488896 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patter nmatches are the best kind of nmatches. < 1326135417 939818 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: HA HA HA < 1326135423 518362 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah ha. < 1326135428 34812 :FireFly!firefly@unaffiliated/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, it happens. < 1326135447 696023 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I like your writing style, please write tutorials about everything you know < 1326135449 364793 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: I don't get mi-stabbed very often, in spite of "Gr" being a common-enough prefix. < 1326135476 890263 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: No < 1326135480 980246 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1326135486 869547 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey shachaf, should I write a Haskell book? < 1326135504 347361 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes! < 1326135514 651536 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :On this channel, only "co", "fi", "la" are suspectible to two-letter-mistabbings at the moment. < 1326135516 53595 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should! < 1326135521 318722 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Haskell: The C Perspective" < 1326135523 478495 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'll give you magic meaningless Internet points for it. < 1326135529 215733 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: That already exists. < 1326135532 350021 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1326135532 871590 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Haskell for C Programmers". < 1326135533 346352 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you should write a monad tutorial < 1326135534 498066 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's super bad. < 1326135538 152339 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Fuck you!!! < 1326135538 494793 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org NICK :cofila < 1326135541 129650 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very very few people can even pronounce words starting with Ng < 1326135545 618383 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, I know, "Haskell for Prolog programmers" < 1326135555 587991 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION begins to worry that http://stackoverflow.com/questions/8777216/how-do-you-identify-monadic-design-patterns/8777358#8777358 counts as a monad tutorial. < 1326135556 540403 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: well, it's a perfectly reasonable consonant for ending words on < 1326135559 484203 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so why not for starting words on? < 1326135563 574009 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You should write "Haskell for Haskell programmers" < 1326135566 196937 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it should be empty. < 1326135571 677174 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: ng is the most underused initial consonant in all languages I know < 1326135584 502401 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Haskell for esoteric programmers" < 1326135585 297997 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's perfectly pronouncible < 1326135587 152719 :cofila!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :And olsner knows at LEAST twenty languages. < 1326135590 679382 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: THAT'S TOTALLY A MONAD TUTORIAL < 1326135594 814432 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :SCUM OF THE EARTH < 1326135602 575678 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: hmm, I pronounce it by treating the n as a semivowel < 1326135605 386807 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I THOUGHT I COULD TRUST YOU < 1326135607 356217 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which is totally a real category of letters) < 1326135618 204487 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then, that's how I pronounce it at the end of a word too < 1326135641 794250 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think ng is really a semivowel too < 1326135645 245330 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Did you know chat.stackoverflow.com has a Haskell channel? < 1326135666 273715 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Yes. I looked at the logs ("transcripts") and it's filled with that J Fritsch guy being terrible at Haskell. < 1326135671 601952 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can make the nnnnnnnnng (ngngngngng?) as long as you like < 1326135715 192274 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Anyway, if you wrote a Haskell book, I would read it and possibly provide classical criticism. < 1326135719 873437 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, I just start humming < 1326135721 143624 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is to say, non-constructive. < 1326135733 564400 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: yeah, you can do that too < 1326135740 670589 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ŋŋŋŋŋŋŋ. < 1326135743 91783 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And maybe even the other kind! < 1326135747 146717 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ŋevd. < 1326135752 110383 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote elliott: Anyway, if you wrote a Haskell book, I would read it and possibly provide classical criticism. That is to say, non-constructive. < 1326135753 856912 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :УНИЦОДЕ? < 1326135754 651717 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yes! < 1326135755 604223 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :796) elliott: Anyway, if you wrote a Haskell book, I would read it and possibly provide classical criticism. That is to say, non-constructive. < 1326135777 345563 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I'd have to spend a bunch of time explaining Haskell's flaws :-( < 1326135799 612739 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No need! Just ignore them! < 1326135803 146522 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell is perfect, remember? < 1326135808 863413 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If a thing is a flaw, that means it's not Haskell. < 1326135829 734001 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net NICK :one_minute_pleas < 1326135834 375226 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, there is room in the world for a good free Haskell book. < 1326135845 125193 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The market demands it. < 1326135853 643360 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd make millions*! < 1326135853 800722 :one_minute_pleas!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net NICK :Ngevd < 1326135871 558277 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*short scale millions < 1326135882 896309 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is to say, thousands. < 1326135892 826046 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of pennies. < 1326135893 341940 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of meaningless Internet points. < 1326135894 455058 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Well, the first thing to do is to figure out what animal O'Reilly will use for it. < 1326135908 386474 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Are sloths taken? < 1326135919 108688 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I... doubt it. < 1326135928 435113 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well then. < 1326135930 224061 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Black Cat of Tynedale < 1326135930 381429 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's done. < 1326135939 258275 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://oreilly.com/animals.html < 1326135947 447755 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :^^^ actual cryptid < 1326135948 839247 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1326135957 638244 :cheater_!~cheater@178-26-46-133-dynip.superkabel.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :the neanderthal. < 1326135977 992337 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater_, fuck off. < 1326135978 151697 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Weird that sloths aren't, they're such mainstream animals. < 1326135980 300465 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"MCSE in a Nutshell: The Windows 2000 Exams" -- Grand elephant < 1326135984 675958 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously. < 1326135988 255797 :cheater_!~cheater@178-26-46-133-dynip.superkabel.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: fuck on. < 1326135988 573285 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The *elephant*? < 1326135994 575447 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: X-D < 1326136006 158038 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoever chooses animals for O'Reilly books ought to be dot dot dot < 1326136009 91798 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The grandest elephant. < 1326136030 948005 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ACCORDING to legend, the Black Cat of Tynedale lurks deep in the darkest woods of Northumberland." < 1326136035 476332 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: How is this real. < 1326136042 86031 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"But when the Chronicle went to hunt the folklore creature, we discovered there might be truth to the sightings after all. During an early morning scour of the Tynedale countryside we found wildlife which, from a distance, could be mistaken as a big cat." < 1326136066 978846 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@where elliott < 1326136067 295397 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott is tumbling around Northumberland < 1326136078 1426 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :COïNCIDENCE? < 1326136082 392613 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@where+ elliott elliott is thumbing around Northumberland < 1326136082 709547 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is stored. < 1326136098 348183 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hexhampture. < 1326136114 236564 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely, from a sufficiently large distance, you can mistake anything for anything? < 1326136154 75285 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also scotspeople, what's up with this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falkirk_Wheel thing, doesn't it look kinda awesome-silly? < 1326136154 271301 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, consider an infinitely large, light-emitting piece of yellow card. < 1326136165 758348 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I have been on that, it is the best thing ever. < 1326136168 976685 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(After Hampture.) < 1326136185 979421 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: the Falkirk Wheel is awesome < 1326136191 392345 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which totally makes up for it looking silly < 1326136271 565153 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, the Millenium Commision are responsible? that probably explains the awesomeness < 1326136275 455703 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Commission < 1326136308 848842 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Millennium < 1326136314 346851 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as I can tell, they used up all their mistakes on the Dome < 1326136314 503555 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a function in Haskell for doing an in-order traversal of a Data.Tree.Tree < 1326136323 161716 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and just filled the rest of their work with awesome < 1326136327 333191 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :all the Foldable stuff is prefix order it would seem < 1326136380 97909 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Back < 1326136415 17537 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> [1,2,3] <*> [4,5,6] < 1326136415 835328 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [1,1,1,2,2,2,3,3,3] < 1326136429 579430 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> [1,2,3] *> [4,5,6] < 1326136430 281170 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [4,5,6,4,5,6,4,5,6] < 1326136436 966533 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> [1,2,3] <* [4,5,6] < 1326136437 761690 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [1,1,1,2,2,2,3,3,3] < 1326136443 800053 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ping < 1326136444 116707 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pong < 1326136476 527143 :saberman_!~nodebot@159.182.1.4 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326136478 605223 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the internet is dying < 1326136512 83211 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh no < 1326136513 671306 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a bold statement to make < 1326136517 598611 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :rip < 1326136525 222100 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who gets the inheritance? < 1326136535 849226 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, ARPAnet < 1326136537 2901 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :al gore < 1326136571 153443 :saberman_!~nodebot@159.182.1.4 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1326136615 373900 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, Dynamic Earth is a Millennium Commission thing? < 1326136621 350120 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hi in-order traversal of DAta.Tree hlep < 1326136622 877128 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hpel < 1326136634 238359 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :using liberries < 1326136641 299494 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: What? < 1326136644 342301 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@178235033012.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1326136645 982995 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :libraries < 1326136646 142482 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@178235033012.elblag.vectranet.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey < 1326136648 464562 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :using the funktions < 1326136656 364944 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@178235033012.elblag.vectranet.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :i haven't been to this place for a long time, wow < 1326136659 905606 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's this ex-professor at our university who was Finland-famous (that's like the real thing except in Finland) for his in-the-major-newspaper comments on how the Internet is going to collapse real soon. I think last estimate was that it'll happen in 2006. < 1326136664 433451 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You were here like two months ago. < 1326136674 795936 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Dude, it's just < 1326136676 224398 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t Node < 1326136677 176643 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. a -> Forest a -> Tree a < 1326136681 387804 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::i Forest < 1326136684 126794 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src Forest < 1326136684 443753 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source not found. < 1326136686 747456 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh come on. < 1326136690 318296 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Forest a = [Tree a]. < 1326136690 951343 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src Tree < 1326136691 269045 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source not found. stty: unknown mode: doofus < 1326136693 15450 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that is not an in-order traversal of a tree using the given library functions. < 1326136700 502768 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes I know how to write an in-order traversal recursively < 1326136702 567697 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@178235033012.elblag.vectranet.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott in internet time that's a long time < 1326136711 816367 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you must submit to my constraint system. < 1326136721 180142 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :When was cpressey last here? < 1326136728 102765 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: Many months. < 1326136730 6590 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :preflex: xseen cpressey < 1326136732 229699 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :PyCon, I think. < 1326136734 178889 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait. < 1326136739 493159 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Many moons" is I think what you say? < 1326136740 797170 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Useless channel. < 1326136769 269901 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-05. < 1326136770 856956 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is the answer. < 1326136782 555848 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Before my time... < 1326136790 33943 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I came here 2011-08? < 1326136810 445281 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has never been here. < 1326136892 24666 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I take it you've given up as there's no easy solution < 1326136927 862885 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least elliott hasn't had to write an interaction net deque < 1326137191 792499 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: I gave up because I'm not here to write your code for you < 1326137195 952614 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :However < 1326137198 333568 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> Node 42 [] < 1326137199 287337 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Node {rootLabel = 42, subForest = []} < 1326137203 509522 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Use the library functions rootLabel and subForest. < 1326137247 173782 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Simon Jenkins has a knighthood?? < 1326137250 801612 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha ha ha ha ha < 1326137262 5008 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :For what, services to shooting his mouth off? < 1326137269 623474 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :who's that? < 1326137281 939295 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle [a] -> Maybe a < 1326137282 257256 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Maybe listToMaybe :: [a] -> Maybe a < 1326137282 414932 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.List find :: (a -> Bool) -> [a] -> Maybe a < 1326137282 571938 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude head :: [a] -> a < 1326137297 555223 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1326137304 798866 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> find (const True) [1,2,3,4] < 1326137305 672785 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Just 1 < 1326137383 559256 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :2010's Computer Music Journal is lame < 1326137386 97843 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, one of the Guardian's main columnists, notable among other things for being stupidly anti-science. < 1326137394 170104 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of it is just people coming up with timbre-spaces < 1326137439 886830 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's only one publication about actual audio synthesis. < 1326137449 51912 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cf. http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/jun/06/maths.alevels < 1326137463 865358 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a very wide-topic journal. < 1326137513 993639 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't find timbre-spaces very interesting. < 1326137546 794576 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Additionally, http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/jun/24/rees-makes-religion-out-of-science < 1326137582 256954 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"too bad if science wrecked the case for nuclear power by its hypersafe radiation limits, or failed properly to defend GM foods." < 1326137607 910630 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"GOD why can't you people effortlessly dispel people's irrationality?" < 1326137742 66159 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: what's a good year to read? there's a lot of them to search through. :P < 1326137909 375713 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: I have zero clue. There's a lot of interesting stuff also in the IEEE journals that have "audio" in the name, but those are even worse if you have a single topic in mind. Browsing them non-physically may be best for efficiency. < 1326137938 658967 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl < 1326138011 167929 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Also some that have "audio" in the name also have "speech" in there, and just physically picking an issue up subjects you to elliott's industrial-strength scorn ray.) < 1326138192 592784 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1326138216 660672 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: SCOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORN < 1326138224 309597 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's voice-activated. < 1326138249 387622 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it use SPEECH RECOGNITION to pick up the activation commands? < 1326138271 323076 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Precisely! That's why this is the first time it's activated. < 1326138282 379391 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You hit the incredibly unrealistic and precise conditions required for speech recognition to be feasible. < 1326138363 145263 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well scorned. < 1326138397 981991 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is probably a subconscious adjustment you have made to your manner of speech in an attempt to convince yourself that speech recognition is good. < 1326138408 462303 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326138416 750958 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: we really need more powerful, and more open to the masses, brainwave readers < 1326138421 867457 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :technology is getting there, luckily < 1326138432 524269 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes. Then fizzie will be even more obsolete. < 1326138482 333024 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: incidentally, you have a huge Haskell bias in your SO answers < 1326138492 693738 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: That's because I only look at the haskell tag. < 1326138502 834773 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I answered one (1) non-Haskell question, though. < 1326138506 281300 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1326138507 234049 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that purity one wasn't really Haskell-related. < 1326138516 603904 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was wondering if you were just looking for haskell tags < 1326138528 790074 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, someone should ask INTERCAL questions on there < 1326138534 18847 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Well, I would look at other tags, but the popular ones are terrible: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/c < 1326138535 767048 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then point me to them so I can answer them < 1326138557 348206 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I would ask one, but I think that would be rep laundering. < 1326138563 975698 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I see < 1326138573 494549 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That was a joke.) < 1326138580 404353 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, it looks just like comp.lang.c would look if the regulars didn't try so hard to scare people away < 1326138582 325764 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The real reason is I have no INTERCAL questions to ask.) < 1326138589 968502 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :when they asked that sort of question < 1326138709 798858 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: wow, those C questions are bad < 1326138714 932119 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they really are < 1326138730 780079 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm amused at the person who was worried that unsigned integers would overflow into the next bit of memory when they overflowed < 1326138735 125706 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/c%23 is possibly worse < 1326138739 453364 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :as the most popular tag on the site < 1326138741 921003 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and was asking for reassurance, but fearing the worse < 1326138745 338087 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: c#, I take it? < 1326138751 845983 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1326138797 480986 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : I've been searching for a Linux version of the Conio Header file, but haven't found any... I'm using gcc and the Text-Editor "Geany" to compile my C-Code. < 1326138808 516814 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd have forgiven em if e didn't mention the editor he was using < 1326138828 296384 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... that's the only thing he quoted < 1326138832 986234 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly, he's using the editor '"Geany"' < 1326138837 127425 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than the editor 'Geany' < 1326138850 321125 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*e, w/e < 1326138851 987042 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the answers are actually useful, mostly referencing Linux reimpls of the library functions prototyped in conio.h < 1326138859 373290 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The freenode ##c is quite bad at times. < 1326138863 557413 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: At times? < 1326138876 696586 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes it's just quiet. < 1326138887 901541 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes PoppaVic isn't there, I guess. < 1326138902 392823 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that is very rare. < 1326138917 324003 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, top INTERCAL result: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2862785/is-there-an-intercal-mode-for-gnu-emacs < 1326138928 661848 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love the people answering "no" without checking < 1326138943 348992 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :people, plural? < 1326138960 6455 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other intercal results seem to be people mentioning it in passing < 1326138961 634682 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, one and a half < 1326139009 793452 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Recently I accidentally "emacs blah.pdf"d instead of "evince blah.pdf"ing, and it took me at least ten seconds to notice, since Emacs went and rendered that PDF. < 1326139018 173534 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1326139032 525099 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: that would be even better if you used emacs in a terminal < 1326139041 64499 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :terminal emacs doesn't render PDFs, though < 1326139044 479314 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric : " I'm amused at the person who was worried that unsigned integers would overflow into the next bit of memory when they overflowed" if you think about numbers in text format like "1234" = 4 chars long, and, on this basis you suppose a max unsigned int "4294967296" is 10 chars long.. then it would be possible to concieve it < 1326139064 628209 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: nah, they just thought that C would ignore types when incrementing numbers < 1326139084 155047 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they were worried that integer overflow worked like every other type of overflow, just going into the next bit of memory < 1326139087 413009 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a plausible misconception < 1326139106 824724 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1326139137 689181 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should work like that :) < 1326139157 876193 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: But it's useful when you have an all-ones bitmap, want to clear it with a simple operation, and have some writable memory after. Just "++" it and the carry will keep going. < 1326139163 488820 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*NULL -= 1; /* now my memory is full of ones rather than zeroes */ < 1326139177 884244 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That, too. < 1326139189 169070 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's useful. < 1326139196 952291 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(anyone who points out that NULL is not necessarily 0 is missing the point) < 1326139204 58927 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: It'll even run in one cycle. < 1326139219 982000 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly one very long cycle. < 1326139221 610447 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, it's just an increment. < 1326139259 206750 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[ < 1326139263 535385 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :]] never mind < 1326139268 819137 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's possible to make a memory that can manage arbitrary length increment in O(log n) time, O(n log n) silicon, where n is the number of bits in memory < 1326139320 75203 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think of overflow in a literal sense of like icecube trays being filled with water < 1326139365 350544 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :each icecube cell's volume of water being a byte of some kind < 1326139371 197467 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: did you know: dwarffortress is in Arch Linux's repositories? < 1326139373 465171 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :take that, Debian! < 1326139377 487069 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I didn't < 1326139391 982144 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it strikes me as the sort of thing that Debian wouldn't want in their main repos, though < 1326139395 238035 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so.. the increment operator on an icecube tray would be a drop of water < 1326139414 221179 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :increment too many times and the water leaks into neighbouring cells < 1326139422 814670 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it even installs a menu entry < 1326139451 211536 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but that's easy < 1326139456 883824 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my Jettyplay package installs a menu entry < 1326139473 905323 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, DF doesn't come with a menu entry file < 1326139483 20211 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like new way of arranging esolang list of ideas? < 1326139494 255950 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, isn't this the second kernel update in two days < 1326139498 202377 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I even added three new entries as well, as making new sections < 1326139505 367903 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: nor does jettyplay, I wrote one for the package < 1326139526 917542 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I didn't see it because of all the spam < 1326139560 825386 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: atrapado spam, you mean? < 1326139561 577240 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'll yell at em on eir talk page < 1326139578 501165 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I think it's an improvement < 1326139594 773923 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: actually, regular spambot spam < 1326139602 678484 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :while I'm clearing it, I don't open other pages to avoid deleting them by mistake < 1326139658 329836 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1326139675 817064 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I've got pretty close to that beforen ow) < 1326139680 217132 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :* < 1326139912 9912 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@178235033012.elblag.vectranet.pl QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1326139943 367426 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you going to try to implement or write additional comment/question about any of these esolang ideas? < 1326140078 956338 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the year categories look nicer now < 1326140088 745045 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(yearcat2 was getting excessively wide) < 1326140124 338684 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Category:Before_1993 hmm... Forth shouldn't be in this category < 1326140124 495065 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: probably not in the near future, at least < 1326140143 245915 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: because it's more recent than or equally recent as 1993, or because it isn't an esolang? < 1326140143 403262 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor should PROLAN/M, arguably < 1326140147 162711 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: latter < 1326140155 217707 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Forth dates back to the 70s < 1326140170 807661 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's not an esolang with the same name, right? always worth checking that < 1326140177 447732 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the article doesn't describe one < 1326140179 830052 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :feel free to decategorise nonesolangs from esolang categories, anyway < 1326140215 785319 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did that for one of them, then got bored :) < 1326140317 795712 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, here's a story of competence. The ISP installing the VDSL2 link was supposed to terminate the old ADSL contract (with another ISP); we faxed them a permission paper for that. < 1326140321 497987 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :They told me explicitly the VDSL2 order would not proceed until they had gotten that paper; also in the paper I told them the installation date. Well, they went ahead and installed it on the requested day and everything seemed to be fine. < 1326140325 807213 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then a bit over week ago I got a bill for January from the old ISP. So I sent the new one a question, something like "is this just because the old contract had a grace period for termination, or did something go wrong?" < 1326140330 414473 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And their answer was that "we never got the permission form from you and therefore didn't terminate the old contract". But apparently didn't think of telling me about it. < 1326140333 340090 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I called the old ISP and asked; they said their records show the termination notice from the new ISP, and the permission form that they "never got" was attached; and that the January bill was due to one-month termination grace period thing. < 1326140337 260985 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose the take-home message from all this is: never trust the words of my current ISP. < 1326140385 896496 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1326140418 381935 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would the new ISP lie about that, anyway? < 1326140427 686971 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems a thing counterproductive to lie about < 1326140430 875359 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm, * < 1326140431 233027 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Incompetence, I suppose. < 1326140467 37320 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Malice, probably not, since it doesn't really benefit them. < 1326140475 114094 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: where does that umm go? < 1326140488 958065 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose it could be just nastiness for its own sake, though. < 1326140495 159567 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it doesn't < 1326140501 807505 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the * by itself is the correction < 1326140504 610734 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh < 1326140507 282107 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is it correcting? < 1326140516 737669 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've decided that as it's typically obvious enough what the correction is, there's no need to put it after the * < 1326140519 238148 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and word order < 1326140525 460776 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1326140527 537203 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it failed utterly < 1326140531 241753 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :since I didn't notice the original mistake < 1326140560 690543 :KingOfKarlsruhe!~chatzilla@p5B131EC9.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88 [Firefox 9.0.1/20111220165912] < 1326140669 239922 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sound devices available: < 1326140669 397767 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No Output < 1326140669 554129 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Picking No Output. If your desired device was missing, make sure you have the appropriate 32-bit libraries installed. If you wanted a different device, configure ~/.openalrc appropriately. < 1326140669 874187 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmph < 1326140678 49254 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm guesstimating their overworked customer service drone just went "oh, uh, I don't know whether we sent the termination notice, can't be arsed to check, I'd probably have to call other people and whatever, I'll just blame the customer for not delivering the necessary forms and ask him to take care of it, that's easier". < 1326140753 23927 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so why did you change ISP? < 1326140783 132362 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :They are, after all, the same customer service people who said it's impossible to change the realname field of my Unix account from "null Kallasjoki", and that I should just live with it since it's not externally visible. < 1326140792 146104 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1326140796 674191 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd be proud to be null Kallasjoki. < 1326140800 799080 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(My first name is not "null", in case anyone was wondering.) < 1326140809 910787 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed, it's fizzie. < 1326140844 453015 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: is Kallasjoki your name either? < 1326140849 399918 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: The new one is faster and significantly cheaper, since they went and dug some fibre to the basement of this building. < 1326140856 468917 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The surname is correct. < 1326140928 965834 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's hard to put a monetary price on the frustration; but on the other hand they seem to be a good supply for IRC anecdotes. < 1326140944 302567 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's hope they keep screwing up. (Or maybe not.) < 1326140962 361559 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as they screw up in harmless ways, it's just fun < 1326141009 638787 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :They have a web forum for users. Some of the stories are... colorful. (In Finnish only, sadly.) < 1326141249 632855 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :semantics of Finnish depend on color? < 1326141308 34180 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1326141318 99061 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :2. (3) colorful, colourful -- (striking in variety and interest; "a colorful period of history"; "a colorful character"; "colorful language") < 1326141370 120688 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh god, I'm now talking on ##latin < 1326141391 29932 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: Excuse me you cannot avoid my questions. < 1326141814 665227 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326141815 416144 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Changing host < 1326141815 575085 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1326141959 48610 :cofila!foobar@codu.org NICK :Gregor < 1326141995 545551 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I'm looking for statistical analysis of music/audio, and combinatorial logic for musical arrangement. so any topics related to that. < 1326142076 262537 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1326142142 274775 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@121-74-73-110.telstraclear.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326142142 640716 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@121-74-73-110.telstraclear.net QUIT :Changing host < 1326142142 797112 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1326142237 36399 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :"music/audio" < 1326142238 28562 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1326142260 564904 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since we don't currently have anywhere near the technology to take audio and extract the music, those are wholly different questions. < 1326142285 933822 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :music is all in your head, man < 1326142359 850169 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought you were saying that was a MIME type < 1326142362 510142 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Need more 'a's, maaaaaaaaaan. < 1326142370 129859 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Just because we can't do it doesn't mean there are not articles about it. < 1326142376 245102 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah < 1326142376 564317 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey PRIVMSG #esoteric :"oh yeah what format is it in" "music/audio" "ok what plays that" "music and audio players" < 1326142469 532410 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And anyway, there are sort-of working things for subproblems, like extracting tempo curves automagically from audio. < 1326142549 24390 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: the division was intentional < 1326142555 309119 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I'm looking for information on either. < 1326142558 392702 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or separating polyphonic music to instruments up to some degree, or whatever. < 1326142577 906279 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Also getting near to the technology to do such a thing requires writing papers about it. :p < 1326142595 9836 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SCIENCE AS SHE IS PLAYED < 1326142596 641612 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :using statistics to figure out parameters of the "music" is something we can kind of do to an extent. < 1326142606 971518 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just don't know how. :P < 1326142690 753366 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think we should start simple. you can't go analyzing the most complex works ever written. < 1326142698 601370 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :start with something like... Justin Bieber. or Rebecca Black. < 1326142700 331635 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I few terms ago a student here implemented beat detection for waveform audio. < 1326142714 451729 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :We concluded that it works for music terrible enough that beat detection would work. < 1326142724 422526 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we don't have the tech to extract music from audio? thats amazing :o < 1326142746 584449 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: we had to pipe it to our hears in order to extract it. < 1326142748 911345 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*have < 1326142759 12786 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: Given a waveform sample of any real instrument, no matter how perfectly recorded, we can barely tell you what note it is. < 1326142760 773789 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: *ears < 1326142762 873590 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :subvocalization is fun anyway < 1326142773 273373 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: inverse pun? < 1326142776 416421 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am currently subvocalizing foo fighters < 1326142785 984351 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :inverted typo pun. < 1326142811 295676 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet you can apply beat detection to most foo fighters songs. < 1326142825 875633 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(wicked burn) < 1326142828 606332 :DCliche!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326142830 164398 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah let it go to waste. i love it but i hate the taste < 1326142845 154723 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. quoting foo fighters lyrics is banned. < 1326142868 564764 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.facebook.com/ go here instead < 1326142883 534212 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :good news is i have never sampled a justin bieber song with my ears < 1326142889 791919 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i can't subvocalize it < 1326142895 590945 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i feel this slight urge to ban quintopia for privmsg'ing me and then immediately going away. but it may just be the hunger... -> < 1326142933 395467 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :From what I've understood, "it" in general works not really that badly, but that's just a vague impression. < 1326142935 948128 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: so really just any kind of book on statistics would be good too I guess. but I'm mostly concerned with audio (oh and the anti-latency time sync prediction stuff I mentioned previously) < 1326142950 456257 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: thats a good sign for instruments < 1326142975 496523 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: real musicians don't play notes. < 1326142978 607296 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :notes are just symbols, man. < 1326142983 663457 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah < 1326142984 615091 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like < 1326142985 654824 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah < 1326143002 677051 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially in electronic music... < 1326143009 377706 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it actually does become somewhat irrelevant. < 1326143035 159057 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you want to sound tonal. you know, if that's your thing. < 1326143038 35769 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1326143082 933083 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Anyhoo, sometimes a good way to find stuff is to go to Google Scholar and add "review" to your search terms, and hope you find something new enough. Like for tempo tracking, "A review of automatic rhythm description systems", F. Gouyon, Computer Music Journal, 2005, sounds relevant. (Not going to dig deeper with this phone.) < 1326143100 135262 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :review review < 1326143123 100207 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so today in intro to advanced math we learned about: BASIC SET THEORY < 1326143141 335743 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hurrah < 1326143151 54045 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Today we learnt about me not handing in homework... < 1326143152 521396 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1326143154 780099 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and he kind of hinted at how natural numbers can be constructed with the null set and powerset operator but he didn't really explain it he just used the example as a way to teach what powerset and subset means. < 1326143167 260134 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :by hinted I mean he didn't say anything about it, but that's what he was doing. < 1326143204 837487 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Also Bishop's "Machine Learning and Pattern Recognition" is a nice textbook about things in general (IIRC); it probably won't mention audio signals or music many times, if at all, though. < 1326143213 890361 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: that's fine < 1326143219 512374 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :general knowlege will be helpful, of course. < 1326143249 947079 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :We use it as a coursebook on some courses. Of course there are many similar books. < 1326143271 131278 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to find some more synthesis books. "Computer Music: Synthesis, Composition, and Performance" was a good intro but it doesn't go into more advanced topics. < 1326143360 697171 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell quintopia i am going to ignore you for pretending you were about to start an interesting conversation and then immediately going away. < 1326143361 120344 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1326143403 523280 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to be going to library so often it's going to be awesome. < 1326143408 632033 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: sometimes i can't tell whether your @tells are serious or not < 1326143410 382588 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :+the < 1326143417 33429 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that was not serious < 1326143419 244235 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hope that helps. < 1326143473 286047 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :...it was. < 1326143494 372467 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but don't worry, even i can't tell sometimes. < 1326143526 974645 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know what kind of blows my mind. < 1326143549 646835 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Diet Mountain Dew (sry mtn dew) has concentrated orange juice as the second ingredient listed < 1326143554 522828 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but apparently has no Vitamin C < 1326143605 26233 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"brominated vegetable oil" lol wuht < 1326143626 317758 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :You, sir, are about to enter the BROminator. :) < 1326143666 628573 :saberman_800!~nodebot@159.182.1.4 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326143683 860211 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: it's like hydrogenated vegetable oil, but with bromine instead < 1326143687 188549 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: Goodbye < 1326143696 219607 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :of hydrogen < 1326143729 256 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I figured, but I'm still startled that it's in this drink, even if in very small quantities (less of it than the actual caffeine) < 1326143757 163733 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: halogen atoms bound to hydrocarbons tend to be incredibly safe for humans < 1326143768 990153 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CFCs are not poisonous in any way, that's why they became so popular < 1326143773 522153 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather worse for the environment, though < 1326143791 310199 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see. < 1326143804 58915 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was mainly just not expecting the "vegetable oil" part and was less focused on the "bromine" part. < 1326143858 292487 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone have a list of every pharmecutial brand name ever invented? < 1326143861 151773 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like to add that to word. < 1326143868 20981 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet Wikipedia does. < 1326143876 989895 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: the US Trademark Office probably does, more seriously < 1326143884 662566 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, US Patents & Trademarks Office < 1326143919 1263 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah oaky. I'll just shoot them an email. < 1326143934 99833 :saberman_800!~nodebot@159.182.1.4 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1326143972 412141 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: that was not serious < 1326143972 609891 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : hope that helps. < 1326143972 767017 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : ...it was. < 1326143975 838753 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: see what i mean < 1326144011 622658 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no < 1326144019 142707 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was also not serious. < 1326144045 701122 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :big help < 1326144051 863829 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm their trademark search doesn't appear to have a category search < 1326144060 587388 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :most helpful 2012 < 1326144065 908149 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"a real winner" < 1326144068 168436 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ps don't ignore quintopia for having things to do other than irc < 1326144068 384592 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :best monqy 2012 < 1326144070 828785 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you want to i guess < 1326144091 985254 :saberman_1000!~nodebot@159.182.1.4 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326144098 515895 :saberman_1000!~nodebot@159.182.1.4 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1326144099 194912 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`searchlog helpful most 2012 < 1326144114 126655 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2012-01-09.txt:21:21:39: `searchlog helpful most 2012 < 1326144119 205204 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh oh < 1326144119 858280 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :true searchlog quality < 1326144125 569324 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :now you'll be even less likely to find it < 1326144136 471425 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the difference between log and searchlog? < 1326144147 796070 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :searchlog is the best. < 1326144153 866328 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls < 1326144157 328137 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin \ canary \ karma \ lib \ main \ paste \ quotes \ searchlog.hi \ searchlog.hs \ searchlog.o \ share \ wisdom < 1326144165 85613 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`paste searchlog.hs < 1326144168 982537 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.14186 < 1326144191 946392 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait it's still the bad one. < 1326144201 903998 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it? < 1326144204 246058 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :somehow < 1326144205 434085 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes < 1326144210 93285 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, why do we have an implementation of grep in Haskell? < 1326144210 275161 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :bad bad < 1326144218 882098 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i < 1326144223 130316 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :we don't? < 1326144223 676906 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1326144225 114940 :saberman_300!~nodebot@159.182.1.4 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326144231 141021 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :any software is better if it's written in haskell < 1326144242 165421 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the highest goal of humanity is to rewrite all existing software in haskell < 1326144252 770221 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :implemenation of grep in haskell: call out to another grep wrapper < 1326144255 353154 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"real good" < 1326144285 828897 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, it's true, I do love handing file descriptors through UNIX sockets < 1326144296 241998 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-158-142.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every now and then I feel like working on package management again. It really doesn't take long before I stop feeling like that. < 1326144296 766871 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't actually think the ^.*....*$ is needed < 1326144299 727742 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just put it there to be safe. < 1326144308 141202 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-158-142.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't *wanna* do topological sort! < 1326144313 856067 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :c any software is better if it's written in haskell < 1326144314 12849 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : the highest goal of humanity is to rewrite all existing software in haskell < 1326144318 44492 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You misspelled "@"!!!! < 1326144323 182242 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-158-142.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or constraint solving! < 1326144324 17341 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: meh, tsort's a really important algo < 1326144337 199795 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: have you read about how Oz does constraint solving. < 1326144339 510251 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-158-142.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Doesn't make me want to do it any more. :P < 1326144350 328492 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's come up naturally at least twice, which beats any other not-known-everywhere situation but priority queues < 1326144357 908719 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in the biased ais523 way of looking at things) < 1326144362 439066 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and parsers, but that doesn't count < 1326144371 540941 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm from the future and "@" and "haskell" look exactly the same it's very confusing < 1326144374 422518 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-158-142.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: No. < 1326144398 690591 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because with haskell you're one step closer to incorporating the software into mathematical proofs :D < 1326144405 198550 :saberman_300!~nodebot@159.182.1.4 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1326144409 988820 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1326144410 349375 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1326144411 528642 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're not < 1326144417 189812 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: if that's a thing you want to do you might want to look at it. I don't know if it's "state-of-the-art" or whatever but it's a constraint programming language so I assume it's pretty good. < 1326144421 337164 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh damn < 1326144435 456226 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-158-142.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: Haskell is very informal. < 1326144444 607227 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not even 1 step closer? < 1326144451 529103 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends on what you're writing I guess. < 1326144453 447787 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :a step sideways at least < 1326144461 507038 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1326144462 620507 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1326144469 962666 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well coq can extract to haskell < 1326144472 383739 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1326144481 36973 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's kind of the opposite ;P < 1326144486 611131 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :your web server written in Haskell is not going to be more mathematically sound than Apache. < 1326144488 976403 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the next genius will incorporate I/O into mathematics directly < 1326144494 335214 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're one step backwards from incorporating mathematical proofs into software < 1326144498 209271 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :true geniouse < 1326144508 146967 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, it depends what you mean by "mathematically sound" < 1326144508 303427 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-158-142.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell is about as formally specified as C. Fairly well for a programming language, but not very in an absolute sense. < 1326144536 790801 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: a constructive proof about web servers or something. < 1326144543 151494 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really know. < 1326144552 498130 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it was also partially that he had obviously not read my answer to him yesterday. < 1326144552 816443 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://stackoverflow.com/questions/8648354/do-monads-do-anything-other-than-increase-readability-and-productivity < 1326144560 415367 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh < 1326144562 995909 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not gonna click that < 1326144565 695049 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: :) < 1326144567 701677 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION clicks it. < 1326144573 347904 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :web servers theory "theory of the future" < 1326144574 304400 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monads are useless because C is turing-complete < 1326144580 192666 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: no it's not < 1326144588 431289 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the answer is not that great either. < 1326144589 124643 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if evolution is true then why are there still monkeys, HMMMMM?!?!?!? < 1326144590 157859 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: mostly it was low blood sugar, though. < 1326144623 872640 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: blood sugar is the best kind of sugar < 1326144627 747668 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION may return to near human behavior in a minute or so < 1326144627 941839 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`fetch http://sprunge.us/Ceae < 1326144632 429277 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2012-01-09 21:30:31 URL:http://sprunge.us/Ceae [510] -> "Ceae" [1] < 1326144641 177480 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: qed < 1326144677 852564 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :C is good if you want to do imperative programming < 1326144694 244276 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run mv Ceae searchlog.hs; ghc -O2 --fllvm -o bin/searchlog searchlog.hs; chmod +x bin/searchlog < 1326144698 932774 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*low-level imperative programming < 1326144703 260383 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ghc: unrecognised flags: --fllvm \ Usage: For basic information, try the `--help' option. < 1326144713 585749 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1326144717 285173 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1326144723 384222 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run mv Ceae searchlog.hs; ghc -O2 -fllvm -o bin/searchlog searchlog.hs; chmod +x bin/searchlog #real programmers use LLVM < 1326144740 765135 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :mv: cannot stat `Ceae': No such file or directory \ Linking bin/searchlog ... < 1326144757 73889 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1326144761 832758 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you already moved it < 1326144763 468677 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the past < 1326144765 175738 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1326144768 615165 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes paste me. < 1326144790 786151 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sometimes forget that I exist in a mutable world. < 1326144799 403947 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think C is the best imperative language which doesn't rely on an interpreter < 1326144801 537248 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mutation is hard times < 1326144810 858869 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: what does best mean < 1326144822 676416 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: what does "doesn't rely on an interpreter" mean. < 1326144825 81214 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: no language relies on an interpreter < 1326144825 557483 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what does "rely on an interpreter" mean < 1326144829 3963 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes that < 1326144829 717697 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it means, in practice, c# and java don't get implemented without interpreters < 1326144836 845471 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1326144838 274585 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :C, C#, Java: the only imperative languages < 1326144846 315121 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nearly :D < 1326144847 500243 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, C# and Java are OOP < 1326144850 346855 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which isn't the same thing as imperative < 1326144873 207084 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also they're not "interpreted" in the sense that "interpreted" usually means. < 1326144876 737325 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also they're compiled to bytecode and run on virtual machines "totally rely on interpreters" < 1326144879 656867 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least < 1326144881 968063 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: JITs, even < 1326144885 236198 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :their common implementations aren't < 1326144885 781102 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yes that too < 1326144916 597198 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION imagines what java would be like if interpreted < 1326144919 470323 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :C brought you linux < 1326144921 180109 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so. bad. < 1326144924 995189 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so bad < 1326144939 995035 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: ok < 1326144949 728829 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: is that supposed to make it the best < 1326144953 61025 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup < 1326144959 534724 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::o < 1326144964 160204 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: yes, it's true. as soon as the first implementation of C was created, it sprang linux into existence. < 1326144973 162220 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then it was the best < 1326144976 457340 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :C brought you unix < 1326144980 718689 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION imagines what perl would be like if just in time compiled. < 1326144981 928223 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so. good. < 1326144998 401398 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sadly C also brought me windows < 1326145049 118735 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: but yes C# and Java are not really interpreted. did you know that? < 1326145062 170173 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: windows is mostly C++ < 1326145086 647172 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see the mistake i made < 1326145096 928736 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :C brought you C++ < 1326145100 25176 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that means it's the worst < 1326145117 931345 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was probably trolling < 1326145125 134307 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1326145125 810467 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1326145139 25908 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, C is good if you want to do imperative programming with buffer overflows < 1326145147 130170 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell quintopia my insanity appears to be diminishing; also blue cheese is good < 1326145147 486379 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1326145161 676402 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm < 1326145175 342710 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't this true of almost all language constructs? You can write every program using the four simple instructions of a Universal Register Machine, but you wouldn't want to. – arx < 1326145180 206043 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :subleq would have been a way better example. < 1326145189 359473 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i lack the education to make serious mistakes in statements about languages < 1326145197 214449 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i sure would love to program in this "Haskell" language with the proofs and the automatic memoization and parallelization < 1326145197 376352 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. < 1326145200 68736 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :too bad it doesn't exist < 1326145212 954034 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can only make trivial mistakes < 1326145213 465620 :cheater_!~cheater@178-26-46-133-dynip.superkabel.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :you might be thinking of: Hacksell < 1326145220 931370 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe if reddit believes in something long enough, then it comes true < 1326145222 714422 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :like christmas < 1326145245 444458 :cheater_!~cheater@178-26-46-133-dynip.superkabel.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: what's up in curmudgeon land < 1326145259 23026 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell is great because it lets me prove that Integers exist, in an inconsistent logic < 1326145260 452166 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@remember kmc i sure would love to program in this "Haskell" language with the proofs and the automatic memoization and parallelization < 1326145260 769795 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done. < 1326145263 594156 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: is the automatic memoization thing at least partially true? < 1326145268 37860 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: no < 1326145280 438237 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, laziness is *kind* of like memoization < 1326145282 542075 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but only barely < 1326145283 982093 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1326145288 113208 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not memoization of function (argument, result) pairs < 1326145302 918504 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sharing is kind of like memoisation, rather < 1326145303 313234 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just means if you write «let x = big_complicated in (x + x)», it doesn't compute big_complicated twice < 1326145318 295184 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and technically / pedantically, that's not part of Haskell, it's an implementation detail shared by pretty much any Haskell implementation < 1326145321 843181 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean they're related more than "kind of" with all the memocombinators stuff and everything < 1326145327 84833 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I was under the impression that lazy evaluation = non-strict evaluation + sharing < 1326145327 954002 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's not automatic :P < 1326145338 873707 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: lazy evaluation has both of those properties < 1326145342 133636 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the spec does not mandate lazy evaluation or sharing < 1326145354 224253 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so I guess you were just being more specific then... < 1326145363 375833 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's an interesting bit of trivia that memoization is easier in a lazy pure language than a strict pure language < 1326145375 121499 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no TOPIC #esoteric :Official revolting channel of the inverse femtobarn stupid topic change CP violation, the original Trilogy: The Eodermdrome Strikes Back | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1326145391 323896 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :memoizing a function requires mutating a cache data structure < 1326145397 338910 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :laziness gives you implicit mutation of just the sort you need < 1326145410 998099 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'll start kallisti again < 1326145423 15270 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no, only you have the power to make arguments out of nothing. < 1326145455 22338 :atrapado!~insekt@95.169.240.79 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326145501 916007 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :at first I used where exclusively < 1326145505 879004 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yesterday i tried to figure out why BART is broad-gauge < 1326145508 460377 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think nobody knows < 1326145511 485894 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but as I write more Haskell I find myself liking let in more situations. < 1326145517 819038 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think they were drunk when they designed it < 1326145520 884123 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, me too < 1326145529 849030 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't. < 1326145532 205543 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :where is good too though. they're both good. < 1326145535 806936 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one mistake i made is confusing the terms language and implementation.. < 1326145554 265798 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like things to flow logically from top to bottom (even if that's not the true order of evaluation) < 1326145564 791589 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so "let" with the "top-level" expression at the end, is more natural than "where" < 1326145565 137255 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: this is also why I think I actually prefer >>> to . < 1326145567 545183 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and another mistake i made is only considering PC computers < 1326145580 218044 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, yeah, unfortuantely (>>>) is less common and uglier < 1326145593 528237 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh it's not uglier < 1326145596 629515 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it even shows you the direction < 1326145599 886842 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just more typing < 1326145600 62841 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes "where" is good because the "top-level" expression can be understood by itself, and the helpers are self-contained details < 1326145611 8051 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1326145611 222953 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't think "flow logically" is meaningful like that. < 1326145620 240500 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If not the order of evaluation, what /do/ you go by? < 1326145628 870 :cheater_!~cheater@178-26-46-133-dynip.superkabel.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: federal law influenced by earthquakes down south? < 1326145628 809513 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer using "let" when I just need to extract some values within a particular case or something. < 1326145632 37571 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doens't need to go in where. < 1326145635 106369 :cheater_!~cheater@178-26-46-133-dynip.superkabel.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even regulation < 1326145646 297134 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater_, interesting < 1326145653 981485 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw the transbay tube is not earthquake-safe < 1326145677 760445 :cheater_!~cheater@178-26-46-133-dynip.superkabel.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: another possibility: attempt to disable use of existing trains. someone got smeared by a train factory. < 1326145680 574872 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, oi, can you get anything interesting from regarding lines between points in R^n as morphisms in a category, or is this not something you'd know in any case? < 1326145691 501167 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater_, yeah, it's great for vendor lock-in for sure < 1326145701 523952 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :they can't buy trains from the same suppliers as the other subways in the country < 1326145701 929727 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay so... sharing is literally just a mechanism of let binding (and equivalent sugars) < 1326145703 694835 :cheater_!~cheater@178-26-46-133-dynip.superkabel.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really, you can always change a vendor < 1326145706 189004 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they can buy trains from india, lol < 1326145706 345122 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1326145710 413846 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(except not, because BUY AMERICAN!!!) < 1326145713 130277 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that was a question. oops) < 1326145739 565767 :cheater_!~cheater@178-26-46-133-dynip.superkabel.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: i think it's probably that there was a fleet of trains already, but the people building the bart wanted to earn extra, so they made sure the trains had to be new too. < 1326145745 409348 :cheater_!~cheater@178-26-46-133-dynip.superkabel.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :*probable < 1326145750 608560 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1326145752 112018 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, let me clarify. I know what the concept of sharing is, but I'm asking specifically where it occurs in Haskell. < 1326145752 911718 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a good theory < 1326145764 632100 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, let bindings, where bindings, module top-level bindings < 1326145774 480931 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :..."variables"> :P < 1326145776 491085 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*? < 1326145778 321928 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :profit is a reliable motive < 1326145783 76591 :cheater_!~cheater@178-26-46-133-dynip.superkabel.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: sharing is caring < 1326145784 251538 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not counting function arguments I guess. < 1326145789 304078 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1326145795 450076 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or case-bound variables < 1326145809 307870 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :those are more passing through existing sharing < 1326145818 440360 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :to really answer your question I think you need a very detailed operational semantics < 1326145827 807597 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes this is would be a good thing to know about. < 1326145827 965089 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then you ask, where does thunk allocation occur, and where does forcing occur < 1326145837 441338 :centrinia!~centrinia@adsl-74-190-48-165.asm.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326145840 974871 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you read "Implementing lazy languages on stock hardware: the spineless tagless G-machine"? < 1326145841 291343 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome centrinia < 1326145845 403217 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :centrinia: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page < 1326145848 371327 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: noep < 1326145857 183981 :centrinia!~centrinia@adsl-74-190-48-165.asm.bellsouth.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Did you automate that? < 1326145872 934563 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I understand that Haskell doesn't maintain a single call stack, but instead has a stack for each level of pattern matching? or something to that extent. < 1326145875 188590 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, well, they have a very simple desugared Haskell-like language where these questions are relatively clear < 1326145883 286890 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, do you mean GHC? < 1326145888 131967 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, yes. < 1326145893 404515 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think it's a true statement about GHC, but I don't think it's a sensical statement about Haskell < 1326145901 614889 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :GHC has a stack *of* pattern-matchings < 1326145910 22452 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the elements of the stack are "case continuations" < 1326145917 942735 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh so just one. but it's not really a "call stack" either. < 1326145929 100010 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :they look like "case (hole) of Foo x -> ...; Bar y -> ..." < 1326145937 525956 :cheater_!~cheater@178-26-46-133-dynip.superkabel.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: any idea how much those techno goggles would cost to make? i was thinking of making a pair here < 1326145947 693567 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :meaning "once you've finished evaluating whatever you're currently evaluating, branch on these cases < 1326145956 363429 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :except some of the elements are "update frames" < 1326145969 18776 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which mean like "before you continue, plz overwrite this thunk with the answer you just computed" < 1326145974 731463 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1326146011 849057 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :centrinia: No. < 1326146030 65703 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: your definition of case continuations seems backwards from what I was envisioning. < 1326146051 789749 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how so? < 1326146074 16191 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: it seems that each continuation is moving further down a data structure? I was thinking it was a way to "go back up".... if that makes sense. < 1326146074 629914 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the expression currently being evaluated is implicit in the program counter < 1326146086 167157 :cheater_!~cheater@178-26-46-133-dynip.superkabel.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: do you have a BOM for those? < 1326146086 643510 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thing you need to remember is, what do you do after evaluation completes < 1326146089 504203 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater_, no < 1326146096 153025 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :03:00:12: if you teach someone C and tell them it's how the computer "really works" then they will probably become an insufferable douchebag < 1326146096 309484 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't that apply to every language? < 1326146099 844863 :cheater_!~cheater@178-26-46-133-dynip.superkabel.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: do you know nothing about how much they could cost? < 1326146101 750616 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: well it wouldn't contain more information than the pair of points itself, since two points always have exactly one line between them. < 1326146108 211004 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes, but people usually don't tell that lie about other languages < 1326146112 375654 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater_, ballpark of $30 < 1326146114 306694 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what about assembly? < 1326146119 111289 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it depends what parts you have, and what you're making exactly < 1326146121 612395 :cheater_!~cheater@178-26-46-133-dynip.superkabel.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've just spent more on pizza < 1326146123 40945 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Indeed. < 1326146127 160808 :cheater_!~cheater@178-26-46-133-dynip.superkabel.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's fine then < 1326146134 178584 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: As in, < 1326146137 988423 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Indeed the same applies to that. < 1326146153 60994 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater_, browse these and maybe comment or contact the guy http://wealoneonearth.blogspot.com/search/label/goggles < 1326146165 691769 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :he has some detailed build instructions < 1326146173 219119 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: oh right lazy evaluation kind of happens in reverse when compared to strict evaluation. < 1326146176 222983 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think? < 1326146176 679698 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, yeah, but that doesn't preclude something interesting coming from it. < 1326146180 584107 :cheater_!~cheater@178-26-46-133-dynip.superkabel.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: thx4u < 1326146195 772647 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, maybe? < 1326146221 688015 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, no. < 1326146229 278606 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I understand the case continuation bit though. < 1326146318 963696 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(by the way "evaluate" means "evaluate to whnf") < 1326146324 620414 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :right. < 1326146341 181590 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have a deep pattern in Haskell, it will translate to many nested 'case's in STG-language < 1326146344 19964 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also another question: isn't beta-reduction and inlining the same thing in Haskell? < 1326146345 362141 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :each once forces to whnf < 1326146351 296282 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, is it? < 1326146368 568598 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're saying that inlining is a special case of compile-time partial evaluation? < 1326146375 900646 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems like when you inline a function you would also be beta-reducing it. < 1326146398 172038 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :beta-reducing its application < 1326146398 830310 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather < 1326146399 307853 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it's best to treat those as separate < 1326146401 728305 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i don't really know < 1326146428 566164 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could say that «(\x -> x + 2) 2» is already "inline" but you might want an optimization which reduces it to 4 < 1326146428 722574 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1326146428 722744 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I ask because Wikipedia's article on GHC mentions that it does inlining, and then also mentions that it performs beta-reduction. < 1326146432 572267 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it's referring to different intermediate representations. < 1326146438 917911 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could read "secrets of the GHC inliner" < 1326146482 508044 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :193 amazing sex tips to satisfy your GHC inliner < 1326146524 274591 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw spineless tagless G-machine is the best name for a thing ever. < 1326146559 370938 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think people would consider something inlining if it skipped the beta-reduction. < 1326146560 522558 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: well it means it's isomorphic to the obvious category of pairs of points. which i think is sort of a trivial partial preorder category. < 1326146570 120254 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would just increase the size of code and not save the cost of a call. < 1326146578 640336 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I guess the jump could be smaller? < 1326146596 481914 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or equivalently, every object is a zero object. < 1326146607 414966 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well you would still get the benefits of some rewrite rules if you inlined without beta-reduction < 1326146657 204908 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but... you would get more if you beta-reduced < 1326146683 113709 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I'M GOING TO UNDERSTAND ALL THIS WHEN I READ C4TWM I'M SURE < 1326146691 805304 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION convincing. < 1326146714 687559 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> iterate (filterM (const [True, False])) [] < 1326146715 840343 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: a = [a] < 1326146724 256301 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOOOOOOO < 1326146724 974918 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cabinets for ten wacky monkeys < 1326146736 180298 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shachaf shachaf * < 1326146745 66298 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: hi < 1326146745 867068 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you _do_ know what a category is, don't you. this is a rather trivial example. < 1326146752 605920 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t filterM < 1326146753 796275 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a (m :: * -> *). (Monad m) => (a -> m Bool) -> [a] -> m [a] < 1326146754 590133 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well on a good day, yes. < 1326146764 140666 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's been almost thirty minutes away from IRC. I was starting to sweat. < 1326146784 667664 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> iterate(group>=>show.length++tail)"1" < 1326146786 201999 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ["1","1","1","1","1","1","1","1","1","1","1","1","1","1","1","1","1","1","1... < 1326146791 6357 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1326146791 323225 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1326146814 815092 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> iterate(group>=>(:)<$>length<*>take 1)"1" < 1326146815 769032 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `GHC.Types.Int' < 1326146816 86288 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred type ... < 1326146821 383863 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> iterate(group>=>(:)<$>length<*>take 1)[1] < 1326146822 415675 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [[1],[1,1],[2,1],[1,2,1,1],[1,1,1,2,2,1],[3,1,2,2,1,1],[1,3,1,1,2,2,2,1],[1... < 1326146833 588046 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's one way to look at it. < 1326146887 648696 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> iterate (toDyn . filterM (const [True, False])) [] < 1326146888 811291 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `Data.Dynamic.Dynamic' < 1326146889 128525 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferre... < 1326146892 949809 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :noooooooooo < 1326146893 933128 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> iterate(group>=>show.length++take 1)[1] < 1326146894 885893 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (GHC.Num.Num GHC.Types.Char) < 1326146895 45114 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from the literal `1... < 1326146899 990847 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t fromDyn < 1326146901 522666 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Typeable a) => Dynamic -> a -> a < 1326146914 992225 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh duh < 1326146918 680012 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> iterate(group>=>length++take 1)[1] < 1326146918 836188 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t fromDynamic < 1326146919 700474 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `GHC.Types.Int' < 1326146920 57175 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred type ... < 1326146920 415108 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Typeable a) => Dynamic -> Maybe a < 1326146936 508556 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess you really needed that. < 1326146949 369672 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fromDyn (toDyn 2) undefined -- ???????? < 1326146950 773125 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : *Exception: Prelude.undefined < 1326146955 579049 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1326146956 688198 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> iterate(group>=>return.length++take 1)[1] < 1326146958 274476 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [[1],[1,1],[2,1],[1,2,1,1],[1,1,1,2,2,1],[3,1,2,2,1,1],[1,3,1,1,2,2,2,1],[1... < 1326146959 860084 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: defaulting < 1326146966 207093 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: (:[]). is shorter < 1326146979 9913 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> iterate(group>=>(:[]).length++take 1)[1] < 1326146979 605805 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is just trying to get it even shorter somehow < 1326146980 903338 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [[1],[1,1],[2,1],[1,2,1,1],[1,1,1,2,2,1],[3,1,2,2,1,1],[1,3,1,1,2,2,2,1],[1... < 1326146996 6627 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> iterate(group>=>flip[length,take 1])[1] < 1326146996 800438 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `GHC.Types.Int' < 1326146997 117317 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred type ... < 1326147008 10057 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> iterate (toDyn . filterM (const [True, False]) . (`fromDyn` [])) [] < 1326147009 233063 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `Data.Dynamic.Dynamic' < 1326147009 551428 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferre... < 1326147010 225618 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> iterate(group>=>flip[(length++),take 1])[1] < 1326147011 177289 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `[a]' < 1326147011 494634 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred type `[a1] -> G... < 1326147025 300311 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a feeling Dynamic is not the way to go about this :P < 1326147036 115389 :saberman_101!~nodebot@159.182.1.4 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326147040 173482 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :saberman_101: hi < 1326147045 291804 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t count < 1326147046 244502 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `count' < 1326147049 795896 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1326147053 907376 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle (a -> Bool) -> [a] -> Int < 1326147054 385909 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.List findIndex :: (a -> Bool) -> [a] -> Maybe Int < 1326147054 564577 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.List findIndices :: (a -> Bool) -> [a] -> [Int] < 1326147054 720815 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.List find :: (a -> Bool) -> [a] -> Maybe a < 1326147057 16998 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle a -> [a] -> Int < 1326147057 362353 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> iterate (toDyn . filterM (const [True, False]) . (`fromDyn` [])) (toDyn []) < 1326147057 518588 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.List elemIndex :: Eq a => a -> [a] -> Maybe Int < 1326147057 924552 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.List elemIndices :: Eq a => a -> [a] -> [Int] < 1326147058 81222 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Network.BufferType buf_concat :: BufferOp a -> [a] -> a < 1326147058 238174 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> iterate(group>=>flip[length,head])[1] < 1326147058 644941 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Ambiguous type variable `a' in the constraint: < 1326147060 389751 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : `Data.Typeable.Typeable a... < 1326147062 375929 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [[1],[1,1],[2,1],[1,2,1,1],[1,1,1,2,2,1],[3,1,2,2,1,1],[1,3,1,1,2,2,2,1],[1... < 1326147067 705232 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ^ < 1326147074 439576 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: huh < 1326147076 391044 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that shorter? < 1326147103 494590 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> iterate (\xs -> if length (filter id xs) > length (filter not xs) then xs++[False] else xs++[True]) [] < 1326147105 85198 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [[],[True],[True,False],[True,False,True],[True,False,True,False],[True,Fal... < 1326147106 36179 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 char shorter i think < 1326147112 778674 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, all y'all should golf a Pascal's triangle generator. < 1326147114 917318 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, predictable < 1326147129 250201 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was brought up on a mailing list I'm on. < 1326147131 830960 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t flip[?x] < 1326147132 664630 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b. (?x::a -> b) => a -> [b] < 1326147145 519324 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> iterate(\f->zipWith(+)f(0:f)++[1])[1] < 1326147146 982999 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [[1],[1,1],[1,2,1],[1,3,3,1],[1,4,6,4,1],[1,5,10,10,5,1],[1,6,15,20,15,6,1]... < 1326147184 170513 :saberman_101!~nodebot@159.182.1.4 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1326147206 72140 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> iterate ((++[1]).(\f -> zipWith (+) f (0:f))) [1] < 1326147207 695367 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [[1],[1,1],[1,2,1],[1,3,3,1],[1,4,6,4,1],[1,5,10,10,5,1],[1,6,15,20,15,6,1]... < 1326147218 241077 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay, that's much shorter. < 1326147220 76980 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> iterate ((++[1]).(zipWith (+) <*> (0:))) [1] < 1326147221 780982 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [[1],[1,1],[1,2,1],[1,3,3,1],[1,4,6,4,1],[1,5,10,10,5,1],[1,6,15,20,15,6,1]... < 1326147227 275029 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a way to get a structure like that? arbitrarily deep nestings of empty elements or whatever. < 1326147228 26894 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> iterate ((++[1]).zipWith (+) <*> (0:)) [1] < 1326147228 977934 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `a1 -> a' against inferred type `[t]' < 1326147236 791485 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> iterate(foldr(\v(p:q)->v:(p+v):q)[0])[1] < 1326147237 743519 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [[1],[1,1],[1,2,1],[1,3,3,1],[1,4,6,4,1],[1,5,10,10,5,1],[1,6,15,20,15,6,1]... < 1326147240 134196 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think zzo made something like that. < 1326147247 834294 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the "ordered multiset" :P < 1326147253 380040 :centrinia!~centrinia@adsl-74-190-48-165.asm.bellsouth.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1326147266 90477 :centrinia!~centrinia@adsl-74-190-48-165.asm.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326147267 431126 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> iterate((++[1]).ap(zipWith(+))(0:))[1] < 1326147269 217337 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [[1],[1,1],[1,2,1],[1,3,3,1],[1,4,6,4,1],[1,5,10,10,5,1],[1,6,15,20,15,6,1]... < 1326147288 881978 :centrinia!~centrinia@adsl-74-190-48-165.asm.bellsouth.net QUIT :Client Quit < 1326147298 881758 :saberman_1!~nodebot@159.182.1.4 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326147303 175603 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :newtype T = T [T] < 1326147314 24325 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Mu [] < 1326147320 934087 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wassat < 1326147326 234186 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :newtype Mu f = Mu (f (Mu f)) < 1326147337 726082 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh good < 1326147345 641182 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Moo. < 1326147347 626958 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t Mu < 1326147348 717339 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: data constructor `Mu' < 1326147351 705366 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO < 1326147354 795882 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ty In < 1326147355 787456 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (f :: * -> *). f (Mu f) -> Mu f < 1326147361 223640 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ty fold < 1326147362 175825 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `fold' < 1326147362 850894 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src Mu < 1326147363 169275 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :newtype Mu f = In { out :: f (Mu f) } < 1326147363 525357 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ty mu < 1326147364 401720 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `mu' < 1326147366 552175 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ty cata < 1326147367 186973 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (f :: * -> *) a. (Functor f) => (f a -> a) -> Mu f -> a < 1326147371 435471 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src cata < 1326147371 753580 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source not found. This mission is too important for me to allow you to jeopardize it. < 1326147379 698056 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t cata out < 1326147380 530846 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match kind `(* -> *) -> *' against `* -> *' < 1326147380 847963 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@google type level fix and generic folds < 1326147381 4347 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : When matching the kinds of `Mu :: (* -> *) -> *' and `f :: * -> *' < 1326147381 4547 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Expected type: f a < 1326147381 801101 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://mainisusuallyafunction.blogspot.com/2010/12/type-level-fix-and-generic-folds.html < 1326147383 77856 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"cata" is WoW slang for Cataclysm < 1326147398 90340 :saberman_1!~nodebot@159.182.1.4 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1326147398 610018 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"WoW" is NetHack slang for Wand of Wishing. < 1326147413 145966 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"NetHack" is internet slang for hacking. < 1326147426 990794 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"internet" is internet slang for internet. < 1326147432 780253 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*internetworking < 1326147467 76404 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sure hope 3 people upvote me in the next date < 1326147468 941533 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1326147475 168275 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sure hope 3 people upvote me in the next 2 hours. < 1326147486 226906 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is good at switching windows. < 1326147506 367473 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that how dating sites work these days? < 1326147529 732573 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Totally. < 1326147530 50364 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: Dating is all about SO reputation these days. < 1326147583 246793 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO is all about whores < 1326147613 694834 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott is all "have you seen how large my SO reputation is", and all the ladi^Wpersons-of-interest are all "ooh!" < 1326147661 581729 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :He can even give to them out of his large... reputation < 1326147671 893971 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott's reputation overflows the stack. < 1326147719 925327 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: It's true! That's how I met lax. < 1326147732 635441 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: We tried to find your SO reputation number the other day by searching for "elliott", and then was all "hey the search found a Haskell question, this must be the right thing" and then it was just that that Conal dude was mentioned in the text. (But don't worry, we did think of searching for "ehird" too when that didn't pan out.) < 1326147745 667735 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> iterate(filterM(const[True,False]).In)[] < 1326147746 622276 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `[a]' against inferred type `L.Mu []' < 1326147750 197613 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: You tried to find my SO reputation as a group activity? < 1326147761 456081 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Well, you see, my wife was interested in your reputation. < 1326147770 316239 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is famous. < 1326147775 565033 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott's reputation precedes him. < 1326147784 122475 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know you've made it when fizzie's wife knows about your reputation. < 1326147791 776417 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie is married?! < 1326147795 214229 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Way to crush my dreams. < 1326147803 385483 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your reputation had just passed five thousand at that point; I see it's over six thousand already now. < 1326147810 248934 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> iterate(In . filterM(const[True,False]))[] < 1326147811 253237 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `L.Mu []' against inferred type `[a]' < 1326147818 518026 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t In < 1326147819 474920 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (f :: * -> *). f (Mu f) -> Mu f < 1326147830 879819 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ty InR < 1326147831 869860 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Rec a -> a) -> Rec a < 1326147845 600406 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :> iterate(In . filterM(const[True,False])) (In []) < 1326147846 465569 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `L.Mu []' against inferred type `[a]' < 1326147863 917437 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src Rec < 1326147864 205210 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :newtype Rec a = InR { outR :: Rec a -> a } < 1326147864 361617 :saberman_1!~nodebot@159.182.1.4 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326147867 476822 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Conal also has a Stack Overflow account! He has less reputation than me. < 1326147875 16861 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Soon everybody will forget about THAT Elliott. < 1326147892 473024 :saberman_1!~nodebot@159.182.1.4 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1326147897 974208 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, why on earth did your wife care about elliott's SO rep. < 1326147906 718448 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :> iterate(In . filterM(const[True,False]) . \(In xs) -> xs) (In []) < 1326147907 671581 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `L.Mu []' against inferred type `[a]' < 1326147922 610055 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Who wouldn't? < 1326147923 86384 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Why isn't Rec defined as type Rec = Mu :. Flip (->) < 1326147926 740987 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :UNFORGIVABLE < 1326147941 708943 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, HELP AM I THE ONLY ONE WHO WISHES HE WOULD STOP < 1326147970 337881 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: WHY AREN'T *YOU* DEFINED AS type You = Mu :. Flip (->)??? < 1326147971 131393 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Anyway, she often asks of #esoteric happenings, and it has been a PROMINENT TOPIC lately, has it not? We've certainly had some SO weather, eh? < 1326147976 886594 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I AM < 1326147991 538475 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> iterate(filterM(const[True,False]).map out)[] < 1326147992 333680 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `[t (L.Mu t)]' < 1326147992 650866 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred type `... < 1326147994 286295 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: What is it with everybody talking about #esoteric IRL? < 1326147999 89853 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmph < 1326148001 604855 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src Mu < 1326148001 939738 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :newtype Mu f = In { out :: f (Mu f) } < 1326148005 202633 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT HAPPENS IN #ESOTERIC STAYS IN #ESOTERIC. < 1326148019 514042 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except for the bits that leak out into the logs. < 1326148025 408552 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, we redact most of those. < 1326148064 806538 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> iterate(map In . filterM(const[True,False]))[] < 1326148066 550624 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [[],[In []],[In [In []],In []],[In [In [In []],In []],In [In [In []]],In [I... < 1326148074 318209 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION does a victory dance < 1326148077 260213 :saberman_1!~nodebot@159.182.1.4 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326148081 149183 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ is the ASCII CHARACTER THAT COMES AFTER ? < 1326148085 769741 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Searching "elliott" also finds a Haskell question where Trevor Elliott is mentioned. :/ < 1326148090 73585 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to assassinate the other Elliotts. < 1326148119 403438 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"assassinate" is like "murder" except the target is important, right? < 1326148124 529636 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Now rewrite everything with Mu [] and you'll be an Ursula user. < 1326148131 384881 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Yes. < 1326148141 73206 :saberman_1!~nodebot@159.182.1.4 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1326148178 474791 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is probably not worth noting that "splat" and "big money" are the official pronunciations specified for the * and $ operators in the original INTERCAL Reference Manual, which is most certainly an authoritative source if I've never heard of one. – C. A. McCann Apr 29 '11 at 20:23 < 1326148187 856724 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO Haskellers know what's *really* important. < 1326148232 975673 :saberman_1!~nodebot@159.182.1.4 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326148239 930650 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t ana < 1326148240 723827 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `ana' < 1326148243 744917 :cheater_!~cheater@178-26-46-133-dynip.superkabel.de QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1326148245 809736 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lame. < 1326148253 736120 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll tell cheater_ you want him back. < 1326148271 850032 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :How kind. < 1326148291 520921 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@let ana f = fix (\g -> In . fmap g . f) < 1326148292 721791 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Defined. < 1326148295 420858 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t ana < 1326148295 740473 :saberman_1!~nodebot@159.182.1.4 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1326148296 371967 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a (f :: * -> *). (Functor f) => (a -> f a) -> a -> Mu f < 1326148310 5612 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> ana (:[]) 42 < 1326148311 753308 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In ... < 1326148385 220103 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix(out<$>) `asTypeOf` Nothing < 1326148386 203639 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match kind `* -> *' against `(* -> *) -> *' < 1326148393 824778 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src Mu < 1326148394 181172 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :newtype Mu f = In { out :: f (Mu f) } < 1326148450 533542 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix(In . pure) `asTypeOf` Nothing < 1326148451 524051 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `L.Mu f' < 1326148451 841414 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred type `Data.M... < 1326148457 156299 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1326148462 891337 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm < 1326148471 172821 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix(pure.In) `asTypeOf` Nothing < 1326148472 837577 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Just (In (Just (In (Just (In (Just (In (Just (In (Just (In (Just (In (Just ... < 1326148478 324707 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :this just in < 1326148482 316587 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix(pure.In) `asTypeOf` [] < 1326148483 785085 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In... < 1326148494 530166 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix(pure.In) `asTypeOf` (Left "") < 1326148496 277714 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Right (In (Right (In (Right (In (Right (In (Right (In (Right (In (Right (In... < 1326148589 457899 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t showList < 1326148590 409057 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Show a) => [a] -> String -> String < 1326148636 591942 :saberman_1!~nodebot@159.182.1.4 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326148641 322448 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t \f -> fix (In . f) < 1326148642 153678 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (f :: * -> *). (Mu f -> f (Mu f)) -> Mu f < 1326148647 443656 :saberman_1!~nodebot@159.182.1.4 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1326148658 21703 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t \f -> In (fix (f . In)) < 1326148658 814553 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (f :: * -> *). (Mu f -> f (Mu f)) -> Mu f < 1326148667 18822 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :...duh :P < 1326148677 223677 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh it's the asTypeOf that broke yours < 1326148684 571887 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix (In . Just) < 1326148686 160979 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : In (Just (In (Just (In (Just (In (Just (In (Just (In (Just (In (Just (In (J... < 1326148704 302191 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1326148730 399358 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl "sup" =~ // < 1326148733 622758 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1326148750 947459 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl "sup" =~ m// < 1326148751 818880 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1326148762 168732 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> iterate(map var.filterM(const[True,False]))[] < 1326148763 119398 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `Data.Number.Symbolic.Sym a' < 1326148763 437139 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against i... < 1326148788 872731 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish I had GHC 7.4. < 1326148842 608858 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: What system are you on? < 1326148853 226922 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t \f -> (map f .) < 1326148854 101916 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b (f :: * -> *). (Functor f) => (a -> b) -> f [a] -> f [b] < 1326148863 612443 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t \f -> (map f Prelude..) < 1326148864 562515 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b a1. (a -> b) -> (a1 -> [a]) -> a1 -> [b] < 1326148879 271874 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Wait, you realise there are GHC 7.4 binaries, right? < 1326148886 989057 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes, but I'm too lazy to install them. < 1326148892 150285 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And also, they're release candidates. < 1326148898 254952 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle (a -> b) -> (a1 -> f a) -> a1 -> f b < 1326148898 872396 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Parallel.Strategies ($|) :: (a -> b) -> Strategy a -> a -> b < 1326148899 87277 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Parallel.Strategies ($||) :: (a -> b) -> Strategy a -> a -> b < 1326148899 245717 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Parallel.Strategies (.|) :: (b -> c) -> Strategy b -> (a -> b) -> (a -> c) < 1326148899 563629 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm waiting until one of them gets voted in. < 1326148910 308034 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Democracy, you know. < 1326148929 673663 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: wget http://www.haskell.org/ghc/dist/7.4.1-rc1/ghc-7.4.0.20111219-x86_64-unknown-linux.tar.bz2 && tar xf ghc* && cd ghc* && ./configure --prefix=~/ghc-7.4 && make install < 1326148934 668580 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle (a -> b) -> (a1 -> [a]) -> a1 -> [b] < 1326148935 143978 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :No results found < 1326148948 685068 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I believe the Show superclass constraint has been removed from Num." PRAISE THE LORD < 1326149025 612651 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ALL PRAISE LORD ØRJÄÑ < 1326149036 90222 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> iterate(map(var.show).showfilterM(const[True,False]))[] < 1326149036 885669 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: `showfilterM' < 1326149041 100930 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> iterate(map(var.show).filterM(const[True,False]))[] < 1326149042 687166 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [[],[[]],[[[]],[]],[[[[]],[]],[[[]]],[[]],[]],[[[[[]],[]],[[[]]],[[]],[]],[... < 1326149168 944805 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :judging by my programming, if i become lord i will solve all your problems, although not without accidentally obliterating a few countries in the process. < 1326149216 169296 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :all the problems that don't require real work, that is. < 1326149260 76735 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`perl @a = (undef); print @a // 1 < 1326149263 157717 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't open perl script "@a = (undef); print @a // 1 ": No such file or directory < 1326149264 446189 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl @a = (undef); print @a // 1 < 1326149265 99312 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 < 1326149276 837599 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl @a = (undef); print $a[0] < 1326149277 732373 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1326149287 997265 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl @a = (undef); print scalar @a < 1326149288 833669 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 < 1326149331 848020 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl @a = (1,2,3); print @a // 3 < 1326149332 730897 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 < 1326149334 547010 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1326149367 988236 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so // is not entirely equivalent to a ?: as the docs suggest. < 1326149408 224612 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : @hoogle (a -> b) -> (a1 -> [a]) -> a1 -> [b] < 1326149414 305323 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, wait, you already wrote that < 1326149435 679555 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle a -> b -> a -> b -> a -> b -> a < 1326149436 789701 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.List zipWith6 :: (a -> b -> c -> d -> e -> f -> g) -> [a] -> [b] -> [c] -> [d] -> [e] -> [f] -> [g] < 1326149437 107404 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.List zipWith7 :: (a -> b -> c -> d -> e -> f -> g -> h) -> [a] -> [b] -> [c] -> [d] -> [e] -> [f] -> [g] -> [h] < 1326149440 5832 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it's fmap . fmap < 1326149712 305820 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i was hoping for an operator so i could just write var.show ... filterM(const[True,False]) < 1326149759 905740 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm < 1326149760 61464 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (.:) < 1326149760 61657 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b (f :: * -> *) (g :: * -> *). (Functor f, Functor g) => (a -> b) -> f (g a) -> f (g b) < 1326149789 396512 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (.:) `asTypeOf` fmap fmap fmap < 1326149790 351152 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (f :: * -> *) a b (f1 :: * -> *). (Functor f, Functor f1) => (a -> b) -> f (f1 a) -> f (f1 b) < 1326149796 178052 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1326149810 245578 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> iterate(var.show.:filterM(const[True,False]))[] < 1326149811 196791 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `GHC.Types.Char' < 1326149811 513577 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred type... < 1326149817 337612 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I pretty much have one response to questions in #haskell these days. < 1326149818 609012 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :now what :( < 1326149826 392580 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You should understand why blah blah blah." < 1326149830 918 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could make a shachafbot. < 1326149833 829817 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Sym has a type parameter < 1326149871 56142 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: that didn't matter with map(var.show). < 1326149891 326874 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also can you powerset a Sym [a] ? < 1326149896 196759 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1326149903 758793 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> iterate((var.show).:filterM(const[True,False]))[] < 1326149905 347014 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [[],[[]],[[[]],[]],[[[[]],[]],[[[]]],[[]],[]],[[[[[]],[]],[[[]]],[[]],[]],[... < 1326149912 265379 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1326149914 627178 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :..okay < 1326149917 157010 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah the problem was precedence < 1326149927 120803 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or associativity, rather < 1326149935 689148 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm kind of confused as to how [] types as Sym [a] < 1326149944 365757 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't < 1326149953 769457 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it types as [Sym [a]] < 1326149969 486781 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t vat < 1326149970 786730 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `vat' < 1326149972 846863 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t var < 1326149973 875824 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. String -> Sym a < 1326149981 758272 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay then var is not that < 1326150044 570818 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@let varr :: Arrow a => String -> Sym (a b c); varr = var < 1326150044 727111 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Defined. < 1326150049 329959 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :var.show is just a trick to get something of a fixed type that shows the same as whatever < 1326150129 639296 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1326150133 280660 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t iterate < 1326150134 578436 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (a -> a) -> a -> [a] < 1326150139 149798 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t var < 1326150140 413886 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. String -> Sym a < 1326150164 710999 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t mapAccum < 1326150165 701770 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `mapAccum' < 1326150167 149552 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :[Sym [a]] /= Sym a < 1326150168 723517 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle mapAccum < 1326150169 78762 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.List mapAccumL :: (acc -> x -> (acc, y)) -> acc -> [x] -> (acc, [y]) < 1326150169 394502 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Traversable mapAccumL :: Traversable t => (a -> b -> (a, c)) -> a -> t b -> (a, t c) < 1326150169 550843 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.List mapAccumR :: (acc -> x -> (acc, y)) -> acc -> [x] -> (acc, [y]) < 1326150179 690269 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1326150181 633952 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the difference? < 1326150194 590790 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Between mapAccumL and mapAccumR? < 1326150199 344921 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Similar to foldl/foldr. < 1326150200 295839 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: so? that's why it's .: not . < 1326150212 966780 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mapAccumL is often the one you want, I think. < 1326150231 773779 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh, er... I don't know what's that doing here then < 1326150268 432554 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :as elliott would say, I don't understand function composition < 1326150297 613666 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: (var.show).: converts a list's elements to Sym a without changing what their printed as < 1326150304 495625 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: So, like, you know functions? Imagine that you had, like, a function, and, like, another function. < 1326150312 769896 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then you had a value. < 1326150314 141607 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: not what I meant. :P < 1326150332 974483 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And so you applied one function to the value, and then applie the other function to the result of that. < 1326150333 130850 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So far so good? < 1326150333 131030 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: also poor explanation < 1326150338 824929 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, it's a function on the right producing a list, too < 1326150349 559794 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Function composition is the same thing, but WITHOUT THE VALUE. < 1326150371 713489 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's.... < 1326150393 945519 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :var( show ( (filterM (const [True, False])) x) < 1326150395 543774 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1326150404 725525 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :-) < 1326150413 197089 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1326150414 726445 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1326150415 936915 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> mapAccumL f a [x,y,z] < 1326150416 887941 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (SimpleReflect.FromExpr (SimpleReflect.Expr, y)) < 1326150417 234030 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising... < 1326150424 767355 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Lame? < 1326150437 453029 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: no, it's fmap (var . show) ((filterM (const [True, False])) x) < 1326150450 922570 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Expect f to return a tuple and expecting SimpleReflect to Do The Right Thing with it is going a bit far. < 1326150463 447925 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, there's nothing reasonable you could even do there by hand. < 1326150469 156780 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There Is No Right Thing. < 1326150475 308124 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh caleskell okay < 1326150495 304407 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Well, SimpleReflect isn't The Right Thing. :p < 1326150496 138101 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :.: is caleskell < 1326150496 295633 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> mapAccumL (\a b -> (a ++ show b, b+1)) "init" [5,6,7,8,9] < 1326150498 96175 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ("init56789",[6,7,8,9,10]) < 1326150504 317160 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> mapAccumR (\a b -> (a ++ show b, b+1)) "init" [5,6,7,8,9] < 1326150505 943848 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ("init98765",[6,7,8,9,10]) < 1326150507 966909 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: There you go. < 1326150509 988140 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Work it out. < 1326150511 959644 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I'm aware of .: but I forget that it's a functor thing and not a function thing. < 1326150517 630472 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually the example I gave there is kind of terrible. < 1326150525 131462 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: accumE' x (Cons fs fss) = Cons xs $ accumE' x fss < 1326150525 287774 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : where (x', xs) = instant x fs < 1326150527 567521 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> mapAccumL (\a b -> (a ++ show b, b+length a)) "init" [5,6,7,8,9] < 1326150529 195432 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ("init56789",[9,11,13,15,17]) < 1326150530 622094 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to figure out which one I want to port to Stream. :p < 1326150532 734282 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> mapAccumR (\a b -> (a ++ show b, b+length a)) "init" [5,6,7,8,9] < 1326150534 318797 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ("init98765",[13,13,13,13,13]) < 1326150540 739713 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect it's L. < 1326150543 128024 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You probably want to port mapAccumL to stream. < 1326150574 789337 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mapAccumL is, if I'm understanding correctly, the reasonably-lazy one for lists. < 1326150656 102586 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: yo, you've got this shit right? and you've got some shit you wanna do followed by some other shit, right? but maybe you wanna do the two shits to more than one shit, you know? well you can just put a . between the two shits you wanna do and it becomes this new shit you can do where one shit that gets done becomes the shit that gets done by the other shit < 1326150693 445577 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not how function composition works, kallisti. That's how laxatives work. < 1326150731 263003 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Right. < 1326150744 112028 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote shachaf: yo, you've got this shit right? and you've got some shit you wanna do followed by some other shit, right? but maybe you wanna do the two shits to more than one shit, you know? well you can just put a . between the two shits you wanna do and it becomes this new shit you can do where one shit that gets done becomes the shit that gets done by the other shit That's not how function composition works, kallisti. < 1326150744 268214 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : That's how laxatives work. < 1326150745 734635 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aw. < 1326150747 639993 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :797) shachaf: yo, you've got this shit right? and you've got some shit you wanna do followed by some other shit, right? but maybe you wanna do the two shits to more than one shit, you know? well you can just put a . between the two shits you wanna do and it becomes this new shit you can do where one shit that gets done becomes the shit that gets done by the other shit That's not how function composition works, kallisti. < 1326150749 701717 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`delquote 797 < 1326150754 86004 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​*poof* shachaf: yo, you've got this shit right? and you've got some shit you wanna do followed by some other shit, right? but maybe you wanna do the two shits to more than one shit, you know? well you can just put a . between the two shits you wanna do and it becomes this new shit you can do where one shit that gets done becomes the shit that gets done by the other shit That's not how function composition works, kallisti. < 1326150757 2655 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> mapAccumR (\acc x -> (x:acc, x)) [] [1..] < 1326150757 297205 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :HAH. < 1326150757 970915 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ([1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24,25,26,27,2... < 1326150762 312428 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Too long for your quote database. < 1326150765 482765 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> mapAccumL (\acc x -> (x:acc, x)) [] [1..] < 1326150771 744357 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval-core: Time limit exceeded < 1326150771 903342 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval: ExitFailure 1 < 1326150772 61448 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Well, no, I could hack it in, but HackEgo would chop it off on reproduction. < 1326150783 893452 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: shachaf is lies. :( < 1326150788 331662 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. Which is good enough for me. < 1326150792 122337 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like when stalker mode gets messages before irssi gets messages < 1326150805 288828 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Main> takeStream 10 $ simulate (\e -> accumE 0 ((+1) <$ e)) (pure (Just ())) < 1326150805 447000 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[Just 1,Just 1,Just 1,Just 1,Just 1,Just 1,Just 1,Just 1,Just 1,Just 1] < 1326150807 390224 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1326150824 826776 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has never used stalker mode. < 1326150833 922983 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use it to verify that my line did not get cut off < 1326150848 453919 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure there's a better way I could be handling that. < 1326150854 359670 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, this is just like reading IRC. < 1326150884 924939 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> snd $ mapAccumR (\acc x -> (x:acc, x)) [] [1..] < 1326150888 857849 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :irssi handles line-wrapping, doofus. < 1326150889 16974 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval-core: Time limit exceeded < 1326150892 663763 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> snd $ mapAccumL (\acc x -> (x:acc, x)) [] [1..] < 1326150896 469821 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval-core: Time limit exceeded < 1326150898 515794 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: yep except no one knows you're there < 1326150898 845943 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If only I had a way of reading IRC... < 1326150918 983801 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :perfect for humorous ragequits that you want to read the reaction to < 1326150924 537435 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kalliti: Unlike the normal situation, where no one cares you're there? < 1326150929 915412 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1326150936 146850 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but maybe you're banned and you want to ruminate? < 1326150940 236136 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :stalker mode has lots of possibilities. < 1326150981 655653 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a hunch one of mapAccumL and mapAccumR _ought_ to take the function flipped. < 1326151009 115658 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also you can pretend to be really angry and quit IRC and then when someone keeps talking you log in to reply and then leave again < 1326151009 311319 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: NO THAT'S RIDICULOUS < 1326151013 416195 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think elliott has done this. < 1326151026 958077 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :with numerous join/parts < 1326151042 410295 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :by foldl / foldr analogy < 1326151080 149410 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle traverse < 1326151080 982053 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Traversable traverse :: (Traversable t, Applicative f) => (a -> f b) -> t a -> f (t b) < 1326151081 299217 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Foldable traverse_ :: (Foldable t, Applicative f) => (a -> f b) -> t a -> f () < 1326151081 455581 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Parallel.Strategies parTraverse :: Traversable t => Strategy a -> Strategy (t a) < 1326151093 713813 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1326151094 718386 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hi have you ever used Control.Parallel.Strategies? < 1326151098 877468 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Well, foldl/foldr are wrong. < 1326151104 692564 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And so are mapAccumLmapAccumR. < 1326151107 230081 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everybody is wrong. < 1326151114 44938 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm wrong. < 1326151117 134984 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're wrong. < 1326151129 749581 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott is wrong. < 1326151136 444113 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But if elliott is wrong, I don't want to be right, man. < 1326151146 773930 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Yes. < 1326151869 423159 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : "I believe the Show superclass constraint has been removed from Num." PRAISE THE LORD < 1326151876 252342 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, fuck standards compliance! < 1326151881 573260 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck software which does what it's specified to do! < 1326151897 340138 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :we'll bow to the whims of the pitchfork mob any day < 1326152009 973587 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless GHC removes monomorphism restriction I will capsize five tankers in the ellingson fleet < 1326152077 63467 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :GHC progresses way too slowly. < 1326152079 822565 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Grassgrow Haskell Compiler. < 1326152097 995252 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Glorious Glasgow Haskell-except-Num-has-no-superclasses Compiler < 1326152109 265802 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itym "Haskerr" < 1326152121 757612 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1326152125 9218 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nm < 1326152140 522124 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :see, I'd be fine with a solution where -XHaskell98 and -XHaskell2010 do what they're supposed to < 1326152156 594794 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :They don't? < 1326152160 339583 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1326152172 413087 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :even with -XHaskell98, Show and Eq are not superclasses of Num < 1326152178 697385 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which breaks existing Haskell code < 1326152179 330253 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about the fancy new superclass default constraint kind variable polymorphism inference thing? < 1326152181 663315 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :some in standard libraries even < 1326152200 284176 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'll need generalized abstract superclass default constraint kind variable polymorphism inference synonym families to do that < 1326152206 782521 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought that had something to do with them being able to removing superclasses without breaking compatibility. < 1326152212 565007 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but only a Java Monkey would fail to understand those < 1326152233 913912 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, there was discussion of ways to do that, but I don't think it's in GHC HEAD yet < 1326152234 230715 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION → sleep < 1326152235 881865 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1326152328 441052 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Oh. < 1326152332 864140 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So why did they remove that? < 1326152336 232925 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :remove what < 1326152341 185757 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The superclass constraint. < 1326152353 351724 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I'm all for fixing the Num hierarchy, but removing a single constraint seems like the worst of all worlds. < 1326152353 668471 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dunno man < 1326152366 605589 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's dumb because it breaks existing code < 1326152368 904090 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone ought to do something! < 1326152373 28549 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, it can turn a module which typechecks into one which doesn't < 1326152379 447676 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION goes to upvote a Reddit post. < 1326152389 313557 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have «f :: (Num a) => ...», and you use Eq or Show constraints within f < 1326152420 995960 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1326153036 943035 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : yeah, fuck standards compliance! < 1326153037 101148 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : fuck software which does what it's specified to do! < 1326153037 257350 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : we'll bow to the whims of the pitchfork mob any day < 1326153050 657070 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, GHC would be so much better if it just implemented Haskell 2010 and didn't deviate or extend upon it in any way. < 1326153066 655566 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That sounds like a strawman. < 1326153069 506359 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW, I think Eq is still a superclass, or pattern-matching would break. < 1326153071 729622 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I'm fine with extensions that need to be enabled, or at least can be disabled < 1326153075 13495 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: It is, but so is kmc's. < 1326153091 319027 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I think it adds Eq when you pattern-match. < 1326153099 162825 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Just like for OverloadedStrings. < 1326153101 791702 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in this case, i don't think there's any way to change the non-compliant behavior < 1326153106 546535 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since Eq is certainly not a superclass of IsString. < 1326153119 86312 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's not an "extension", it's breakage which already broke standard library code < 1326153120 711569 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless it is. < 1326153121 878255 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src IsString < 1326153122 355148 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source not found. Maybe you made a typo? < 1326153143 766756 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: The option to be standards-compliant is nice until you realise that you don't really have that option because all the libraries that everybody uses depend on tons of extensions. < 1326153160 647637 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's kind of a non-option anyway. < 1326153167 210429 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That doesn't mean you have to break packages that only depend on the standard. < 1326153209 174180 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, those libraries document the extensions they use < 1326153214 541034 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: No, but how many of those really exist? < 1326153242 154884 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :part of my objection is that the Haskell 2010 language is better specified and better documented than the "what GHC accepts this week" language < 1326153255 64511 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Enough for actual breakage to happen. < 1326153260 242791 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but even when you deviate from Haskell 2010, you note those deviations with explicit LANGUAGE flags < 1326153262 51786 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: My point is that the vast majority of code out there doesn't work in a strict Haskell 2010 compiler because of dependencies; indeed, it perhaps cannot because of interfaces that are only implementable with such extensions. < 1326153271 434150 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not saying standards aren't nice things. < 1326153273 662818 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think your point is irrelevant to my point < 1326153281 539245 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just saying that the Haskell report is already kind of irrelevant. < 1326153284 795383 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1326153293 672552 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a common fallacy in #haskell < 1326153302 491772 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that, since people only use GHC, we shouldn't care about the spec < 1326153306 953228 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are many reasons to still care about the spec < 1326153309 647574 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I care about the spec. < 1326153318 680060 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :one is that it specifies what your programs mean < 1326153324 564684 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :at a level of detail which the GHC manual does not < 1326153328 414163 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not talking about what the ideal situation is, just what the actual situation is in my opinion. < 1326153337 25734 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :As I said, I totally agree that specifications are good things. < 1326153347 634732 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :for most extensions, the GHC manual has a couple of informal paragraphs and a link to a paper about a vaguely related research project < 1326153434 807050 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just saying that while the situation is like it is, the vast, vast majority of code can't work with just Haskell 2010 anyway, so breaking Haskell 2010 compatibility isn't itself a reason not to do something. < 1326153443 773245 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Breaking a lot of code" might be, though, and this change might. < 1326153477 885906 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have the feeling that the two of you aren't going to come to an agreement. < 1326153485 178899 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION also. < 1326153496 586715 :Jafet1!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1326153516 356220 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just think it's really bad that this change can't be controlled with a -X flag < 1326153522 28906 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :not only because you can't opt out < 1326153530 153521 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but because code which relies on this new behavior will not document itself < 1326153538 282020 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :GHC has had a number of changes that couldn't be controlled with a -X flag. < 1326153539 234639 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't even test whether you're relying on it < 1326153547 38565 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most of these were considered bugs, though, and fixed eventually. < 1326153553 21663 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, notable examples? < 1326153554 171999 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :E.g. PostfixOperators. < 1326153562 911314 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1326153564 496098 :Jafet1!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet NICK :Jafet < 1326153570 800311 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There were some others in that vein. < 1326153576 336761 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl doesn't have a standard and it works just fine. :> < 1326153577 178809 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, it's also not in the class of "GHC accepts some programs which technically should be rejected" < 1326153579 163295 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Well, if it makes you happier, the next standard is practically guaranteed to include this change now GHC's done it, making it standard once more. :p < 1326153584 115044 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh? < 1326153594 329165 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not convinced < 1326153598 54174 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, ;P < 1326153609 556883 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Right, it's an actual change. < 1326153613 756530 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Well, it's a relatively trivial change, requires no changes to the language itself, and GHC does it... < 1326153615 918111 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has yet to figure out how to read that smiley. < 1326153617 280597 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is "GHC rejects some programs which should be accepted" < 1326153618 725960 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the name of this new extension we're discussing? < 1326153625 606232 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, it doesn't have a name, that's the problem < 1326153627 262375 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: -X < 1326153636 621991 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Defeated Monster X! < 1326153638 235141 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That's -X followed by a segmentation fault.) < 1326153639 747128 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...wat < 1326153648 836854 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the "extension" is that GHC removed the Eq and Show superclasses on Num < 1326153653 608920 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :regardless of whatever -X flags you specify < 1326153669 90554 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's *not* standards-compliant and code written for Haskell 98 or Haskell 2010 will break < 1326153674 238483 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and this has already been observed in standard libraries < 1326153693 519032 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, I think it might be technically difficult to make this controllable by an -X fla < 1326153695 546938 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's way better < 1326153696 457378 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so cool < 1326153701 298773 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :good job GHC < 1326153728 433220 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :cause it's bad if some code writes an instance for base:Prelude.Num and other code needs an instance for haskell2010:Prelude.Num < 1326153754 136945 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I think this suggests we should live with the problem < 1326153761 898903 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which after all people have been working around for years < 1326153764 621561 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not hard to work around it < 1326153788 487607 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, I'm worried that in a few years, GHC will have fifteen divergences from standard Haskell which can't be disabled < 1326153798 108350 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: What's the practical difference between GHC springing a breaking change on everybody all in one go, and Haskell 201X doing so? < 1326153806 452165 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and are undocumented, or mentioned in passing in obscure paragraphs all over the manual < 1326153816 83757 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ^^ < 1326153835 341922 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it's typically a good idea to perpetuate an existing flaw, building an ever-increasing base of code that will break if any changes occur, all for the sake of "not breaking code" < 1326153837 456218 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Well, I think that's a bit of a slippery slope argument. < 1326153847 145413 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, some slopes are slippery, though < 1326153848 254867 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shrug < 1326153852 443702 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i've made my case < 1326153855 296034 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Are you sure it isn't already in the docs? < 1326153855 611732 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't need to say it over and over < 1326153861 943050 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I didn't say it isn't < 1326153871 369311 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay. < 1326153888 226441 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might be "nobody's problem" since it's technically in a library, not GHC itself < 1326153893 817504 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i mean how many people read the haddocks for Prelude.Num < 1326153914 249201 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually what code would that break. < 1326153915 929272 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should not have to read the library documentation for the entire standard library to know the ways it differs from the published spec < 1326153924 960877 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :removing the superclass constraint on Num < 1326153925 374451 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, if you have «f :: (Num a) => ...», and you use Eq or Show constraints within f < 1326153934 140281 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1326153938 990337 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's not "would", this has already been observed in standard libraries, which need patching to compile under GHC HEAD < 1326153947 870849 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the solution of course is to never use type signatures in your code. :> < 1326153951 612077 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this ensures future compatability. < 1326153955 933477 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1326153956 606330 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1326153966 268622 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I would care a lot more about GHC being standards compliant if the Haskell standards process actually moved at a reasonable pace and added in widely-used extensions. < 1326153978 280902 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :there should be something like a type signature that's ignore. oh wait that's just a comment. < 1326153984 165435 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right now, I don't think it's practical to try and get a breaking change in through the standard at all. < 1326153985 853230 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :from now on I'm going to comment out all of my unecessary type signatures < 1326153996 702624 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :to prevent my code from breaking due to an explicit type signature that later needs to be changed. < 1326154001 900440 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, if GHC produced a Haskell Report-quality specification of the language they implement, I think it would remove most of my objections < 1326154006 740284 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they don't < 1326154015 372521 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that the Haskell Report is super high quality either < 1326154039 658538 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the Report just needs to be less conservative, and come out a lot more often (I think they're already trying to do the latter). < 1326154055 334072 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's much closer to a language description than Section 7 of the GHC Manual < 1326154113 295900 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just wanna know what language i'm using < 1326154119 543719 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that change is simple enough that you could literally just write a script that fixes all the broken code. < 1326154120 417620 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if it's specified unilaterally by some compiler writers < 1326154125 247830 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, do it < 1326154219 548633 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1326154259 127667 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : to prevent my code from breaking due to an explicit type signature that later needs to be changed. <-- ah but there have _already_ been ghc changes that required you to put signatures where you didn't before (local monomorphism when type families are used) < 1326154277 433713 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*didn't need them < 1326154281 5334 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I believee I said unnecessary type signatures < 1326154287 680976 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in the ones that aren't needed < 1326154289 175238 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :for anything < 1326154295 846023 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: they _weren't_ necessary before that change < 1326154311 866619 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay. < 1326154315 411893 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not what I'm saying though < 1326154335 508307 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least those changes only apply if you're already using an extension < 1326154347 197131 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: there's the Easy but maybe Bad way and then the Technically Correct in EVery Circumstance But Complicated Way < 1326154386 339362 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: the easy way would be to substitute every type signature that contains a Num instance with the output from GHC's type inference command < 1326154469 19832 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's not always the correct thing to do. < 1326154537 548169 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't ask how to do it < 1326154538 295762 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i said you should do it < 1326154563 89416 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would think the easy way is to translate the context (Num a, ...) to (Num a, Eq a, Show a, ...) everywhere < 1326154594 219110 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. < 1326154596 480212 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1326154600 180188 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's all old code < 1326154601 181790 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :then yes. < 1326154608 144984 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that was my assumption < 1326154618 348215 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in #haskell it's often declared that X isn't a problem because you could just write library/tool Y < 1326154624 250809 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but most of those libraries/tools never get written < 1326154656 502619 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought that was what they say in #perl < 1326154659 235692 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :because most of the effort is all the "trivial engineering" of actually writing the damn code, debugging it, writing a test suite, documenting, packaging, publishing, etc < 1326154667 182761 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1326154671 51442 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no in #perl it's s/write/use/ < 1326154711 22527 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: so "trivial" < 1326154716 516095 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swats kallisti for dangerous play with fire -----### < 1326154738 374130 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway if I ever have a programming language that people use < 1326154742 493220 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the way I'll prevent breaking code < 1326154751 663032 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is to just make sure every change has an associated script that fixes all the old code. < 1326154760 217833 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so hard < 1326154784 653485 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :either that < 1326154833 315135 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or I'll have some insane system whereby you can specify versions of the language and allows a module to be executed as though it were in the past PERFECTLY WITH NO DIFFERENCES AT ALL. < 1326154837 320773 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :should be trivial to implement < 1326154854 129349 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1326154866 465498 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it would be reasonable with like... "normal" code < 1326154871 171028 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes "trivial" < 1326154880 799666 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"trivial" is just a douchebag way to say "easy" < 1326154888 555656 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :low-level code would of course be pretty much impossible to accomodate in such a way < 1326154893 250364 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :except the things declared to be "trivial" aren't even easy, they're just theoretically uninteresting < 1326154908 727971 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :a problem is "trivial" if it would take 20 people 2 years to solve that problem, but they won't get a paper out of it < 1326154925 406572 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perl JIT? trivial < 1326154929 596533 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this is my life goal) < 1326154931 30335 :rdrp!~rdrp@46.222.152.51 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326154931 662860 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :right exactly < 1326154951 167845 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello #esoteric would you like to be my 20 people and help me develop a perl 5 JIT? < 1326154965 777362 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would basically be the best thing ever. < 1326154985 800253 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be "okay perl is efficient now I can stop programming in everything else" < 1326154997 917550 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not really but it would be nice) < 1326155062 337182 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what makes LuaJIT so fast. < 1326155064 665227 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Python is much closer to having a usable JIT < 1326155072 78678 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is that? < 1326155073 895948 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, I saw a detailed writeup of that once... but I can't find it anymore :/ < 1326155077 465984 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, PyPy < 1326155080 947680 :rdrp!~rdrp@46.222.152.51 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone wants to build an interpreter or a virtual machine for SumaMoito (see esolangs wiki) < 1326155082 80110 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right that thing. < 1326155090 255021 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a perl 5 JIT would be theoretically interesting because it's probably almost impossible < 1326155095 128268 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdrp: do you? < 1326155101 534926 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i doubt it's impossible < 1326155112 282312 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, why would it be < 1326155115 738224 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well you would need a normal interpreter as well as a JIT compiler. < 1326155119 579121 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: well, perl 5 is pretty strange :) < 1326155122 945966 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know < 1326155125 561540 :rdrp!~rdrp@46.222.152.51 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but i am not an expert < 1326155132 899960 :rdrp!~rdrp@46.222.152.51 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that codes < 1326155139 910514 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdrp: sounds like a learning opportunity :) < 1326155147 347658 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think atrapado mentioned having an implementation < 1326155153 703520 :rdrp!~rdrp@46.222.152.51 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1326155159 748579 :rdrp!~rdrp@46.222.152.51 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am atrapado < 1326155195 353482 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh :) < 1326155202 941922 :rdrp!~rdrp@46.222.152.51 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i left the laptop in the other room < 1326155217 726472 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :atrapado, meet rdrp. rdrp, atrapado < 1326155222 582277 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I think you would have to basically interpret stuff like source filters and BEGIN blocks because they're necessary at compile-time < 1326155231 94682 :rdrp!~rdrp@46.222.152.51 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1326155333 954976 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure this is what the perl interpreter does. before compile-time finishes (or even begins, in the case of BEGIN blocks) it has to execute Perl code. < 1326155348 248505 :rdrp!~rdrp@46.222.152.51 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well maybe i build something if i have time and motivation < 1326155493 655438 :rdrp!~rdrp@46.222.152.51 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hope it collapses < 1326155517 357448 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: maybe one day Perl 6 will have a JIT. after they finish defining the language's syntax almost entirely in Perl 6. < 1326155556 154897 :rdrp!~rdrp@46.222.152.51 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i expect partial optimizations, even optimizations < 1326155561 581655 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: WTF do you think Parrot is? < 1326155586 805645 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: an interpreted bytecode language? < 1326155617 713703 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Parrot of course < 1326155701 178266 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the example resembles Python way more than it resembles Perl. < 1326155731 880893 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it uses <> and $_ !!!! < 1326155782 730728 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah good they renamed "Parrot magic cookie" to something less stupid sounding. < 1326155793 508317 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :now it's "polymorphic container" < 1326155955 724277 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but parrot magic cookie is a good name < 1326156026 684667 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is parrot actually good? < 1326156031 912272 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know its isntructions < 1326156073 600251 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: polly morphic cracker < 1326156122 572658 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :they should suddenly switch from Parrot to LLVM < 1326156125 82076 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be such a good idea < 1326156129 692065 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :trivial to implement too < 1326156255 923312 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so you have your very own reduceron yet? < 1326156341 135819 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm guessing it's the target platform for @ < 1326156608 852982 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no @ uses a nanobot network http://xkcd.com/865/ < 1326156650 699697 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :trivial < 1326156659 516010 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like google's failed llvm jit for python was trivial < 1326156735 177534 :Nisstyre!~yours@c-208-90-102-250.netflash.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1326157051 420053 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Trivial trivial trivial. < 1326157061 382363 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: an interpreted bytecode language? < 1326157072 693226 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Ah, it's one of those things where you're wrong. < 1326157079 385737 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lols < 1326157079 816712 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :??? < 1326157118 95366 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wants a tool that's like LMGTFY, but also automatically clicks on an article linked to in the results and highlights a certain phrase. < 1326157125 455712 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :In this case it would be Parrot's Wikipedia article. < 1326157204 329899 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what is hoogle? < 1326157211 340136 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me hoogle that for you < 1326157216 328797 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can tell it means haskell google.. but that doesn't quite < 1326157220 645096 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle hoogle < 1326157221 169929 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't think of anything more interesting to search for? < 1326157221 498041 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :package hoogle < 1326157236 924726 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it search haskell libraries? < 1326157254 681928 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.haskell.org/hoogle/?hoogle=%28a+-%3E+b%29+-%3E+%5Ba%5D+-%3E+%5Bb%5D < 1326157254 998408 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway.. it gives me an idea < 1326157270 164147 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, http://lmgtfy.com/?q=hoogle < 1326157314 140184 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the idea it gives me is < 1326157320 348613 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: You can't assume if you learn. < 1326157331 738796 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a source code search in google and bing < 1326157341 85614 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :google had one; they shut it down < 1326157351 734879 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not yet: http://www.google.com/codesearch < 1326157351 891848 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1326157355 535731 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :derp < 1326157360 847856 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's up for a few more days. < 1326157366 675057 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1326157368 812838 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1326157401 372301 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :god damn it are there no concepts in the world that have yet to be implemented < 1326157401 846631 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :does this mean that itidus21 getting ideas actually ends up wiping them out from reality? < 1326157440 210475 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: space elevator < 1326157440 845524 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: There are, you just haven't thought of any. < 1326157469 308581 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :brainfuck on that codesearch would be nice < 1326157527 255228 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, well you'd have a better chance coming up with new ideas if you learned more of the existing ones < 1326157535 727434 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :like i think everything i've seen you say about haskell is wrong < 1326157555 698677 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.google.com/codesearch#search/&q=%22,[.,]%22&type=cs < 1326157559 157510 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also you were unwilling to even use google to find out what hoogle is < 1326157573 720451 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a bad sign for the kind of intellectual curiosity needed to come up with new concepts < 1326157605 777406 :Nisstyre!~yours@c-208-90-102-250.netflash.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326157617 206901 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Before Haskell, it was the lambda calculus. Unfortunately, we taught him too much lambda calculus for him to use it as a symbol of whatever he needs a symbol of. < 1326157646 419766 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1326157651 708634 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :luckily haskell is a much larger language < 1326157664 879616 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's possible to go on not-learning Haskell indefinitely < 1326157678 257739 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Argh. "oocalc" (and "socalc") were relatively unambiguous, you could get to them with the characters then [tab], but "localc" is /maximally/ ambiguous, you have to type the whole thing >_< < 1326157683 818896 :rdrp!~rdrp@46.222.152.51 QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1326157685 600812 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :local c < 1326157692 144755 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :INDEED < 1326157693 891852 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol cock? < 1326157702 124575 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dude < 1326157707 573928 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cock isn't spelled calc < 1326157708 49317 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and < 1326157710 179858 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol has an l on the end < 1326157715 518794 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION nods sagely. < 1326157724 876091 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no i in threesome < 1326157760 847368 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i found the most compact language to be unary lambda calculus 11111111111. next in line is binary lambda calculus 0010101010. and next is SK combinatory logic (SK(SKSKSK(S((SS(SSS or something. < 1326157771 427669 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about gzipped perl < 1326157782 481115 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-158-142.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I'm not sure gzip will help. < 1326157786 961050 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :next i guess is P" < 1326157792 272553 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i bet i can write a web server in gzipped perl which is shorter than one in unary lambda calculus < 1326157794 543547 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-158-142.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perl's already pretty high in entropy. < 1326157806 548636 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, bah, it's all ASCII < 1326157821 727025 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a 12.5% waste right there < 1326157822 714727 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :gzipped unary lambda calculus < 1326157823 982005 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-158-142.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, right, so there's some room for Huffman to help. < 1326157876 829443 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell fanboys who don't know the language are probably less annoying than haskell bashers who don't know the language < 1326157882 413407 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't know which one is more common < 1326157895 18821 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :latter I think < 1326157915 640240 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i think so too < 1326157922 952561 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it depends how you define "know the language" < 1326157930 42901 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : i found the most compact language to be unary lambda calculus 11111111111. next in line is binary lambda calculus 0010101010. and next is SK combinatory logic (SK(SKSKSK(S((SS(SSS or something. < 1326157934 410332 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately I'm not knowlegeable enough to discredit them. :P < 1326157935 504060 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :binary lambda calculus is obviously more compact than unary < 1326157946 853266 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :realistically very few programmers will ever see a payoff from learning haskell well enough to write practical production software in it < 1326157955 393368 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh.. i see where i went wrong < 1326157960 997910 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was measuring compact in alphabet size < 1326157970 849814 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :unary gzipped perl < 1326158015 300152 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the SK( one doesn't count since it has a variable length alphabet < 1326158055 61682 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :base256 flogscript < 1326158062 263635 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: erm there are just 4 letters, S, K, (, ) < 1326158069 75329 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure you can choose to exclude variables from your alphabets < 1326158080 13630 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090312200046AAJkBeI < 1326158081 466521 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but deep down you know you need them < 1326158084 155685 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: the alphabet is SK() < 1326158098 742564 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :your mistake is thinking that variables like "x" and "y" are part of the SK calculus < 1326158099 545141 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I can imagine what base 256 would even look like. For the 36 years I have been in the computer business, I have seen base 16 (hexadecimal) representation used and on older machines octal (base 8). Base 256 would mean that you would have to come up with 256 unique single characters for each digit of the number. < 1326158103 253175 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're not, they're used in reasoning about it < 1326158110 23189 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :^, this guy doesn't have much to show for his 36 years. < 1326158111 510194 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :actual SK calculus expressions contain only S, K, and balanced parentheses < 1326158129 758868 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :codepage 437 is printable at almost every codepoint < 1326158140 501994 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1326158151 260945 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think the only confusion is 0 vs 32 vs 255 < 1326158154 190099 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :who needs parentheses when you have trees < 1326158154 346237 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats bizzare < 1326158167 188519 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's the default on DOS / PC BIOS stuff < 1326158173 489201 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is great < 1326158180 367357 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you can just print raw datastructures for debugging < 1326158184 208666 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bizarre < 1326158188 364835 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: As long as you're superhuman :P < 1326158189 415701 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: who needs trees when you have parentheses < 1326158193 948843 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::0 < 1326158196 893229 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hardly < 1326158200 413278 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::1 < 1326158213 807542 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a lot of cases it'll be pretty obvious < 1326158231 31743 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :can parentheses make pears i don't think so < 1326158238 614986 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ya < 1326158240 651485 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pearentheses? < 1326158253 860380 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ahh thats the plunge where it loses the ability to make analogies about it.. when you get rid of variables.. i hate that plunge < 1326158255 154669 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :((2)(3)) pears < 1326158268 642466 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: It's called learning. < 1326158272 349564 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You seem to have an aversion to it. < 1326158347 998497 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1326158370 297030 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: imagine you've got these symbols. now imagine you've got these rules that transform groups of symbols into other symbols. < 1326158503 778906 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :now repeat those rules over and over a bunch until you can't do them anymore. < 1326158516 198292 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION good at explain < 1326158547 981737 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can imagine that the best reference for lambda calculus is the writings of alonzo church. < 1326158562 433064 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that kind of reference is not usually practical < 1326158581 861340 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :since its not broken into lessons and exercizes < 1326158596 76706 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :when will people learn to write white papers as lessons and exercizes :P < 1326158621 23158 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think your problem is the references < 1326158676 638468 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my problem is big. experience in trying to learn things tells me that on some level i'm refusing to work for the understanding < 1326158708 82632 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you should do some reduction practice to get used to ski; have you tried that? < 1326158720 269481 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I recommend (S I I (S I I)) < 1326158727 722114 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIIIIIIIIIIIIII is good < 1326158732 297111 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so really it is more important for me to learn to learn than it is for me to learn lamdba calculus < 1326158774 193188 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can either learn by osmosis (this is what I try to do most of the time), or learn by doing, or learn by people beating you over the head. < 1326158789 93575 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it starts with the very small details... like my reluctance to do the dishes < 1326158840 615451 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wont give everyone the run around again on this. :D < 1326158875 164560 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-158-142.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1326158884 353572 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-133.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326158908 645709 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: I think if you focused as much effort on the actual problem at hand rather explaining to yourself why you can't do something because of X which is like Y ... < 1326158925 231721 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: i have this hunch that on some level there's a part of you that is blocking any action that might improve your self-confidence. < 1326158942 732034 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i think i may have a similar part.) < 1326158944 949186 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : you can either learn by osmosis (this is what I try to do most of the time), or learn by doing, or learn by people beating you over the head. < 1326158950 93411 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :your parenthical ended up in the wrong place < 1326158959 637499 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i think that it is often forgotten how rare knowledge of lambda calculus in the world truely is :D < 1326158965 715932 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the third one is just the one that happens the most often. on this channel. < 1326158986 513629 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you sure you don't try it < 1326158988 769824 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in #perl, or so i hear < 1326159004 2287 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i doubt anyone i have met in my life knows it < 1326159008 965891 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no they tried to beat me over the head but I won't let them. < 1326159009 943762 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :except at school < 1326159033 298624 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not learning by beating-over-the-head if you're not learning anything. < 1326159059 686095 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :#perl is just really really really eager to solve my XY problem. < 1326159132 822848 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :learning, when it comes down to it, requires work and effort. if there is no work and effort there will be no learning < 1326159138 17083 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: do I have some kind of reputation now? :P < 1326159168 642264 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Yes; it's 31, which is much lower than mine. < 1326159176 141233 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: I can learn the basics of some things with very little effort. mastery takes much more time. < 1326159189 360129 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: You do have a really big X-Y problem, though. < 1326159198 159500 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean like... in general? < 1326159206 808312 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or are you referring to a specific XY problem. < 1326159214 276043 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if he has a big X-Y problem < 1326159263 839268 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am biding my time until i can incorporate computation into my world view < 1326159285 660267 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION computes his matrix of solidity on a daily basis. < 1326159299 337920 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: are you familiar with the 10000 hour rule < 1326159333 392341 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't think it generally makes sense for someone to have a chronic XY problem. it really depends on what they're doing... < 1326159339 650667 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :according to a wiki page, Platonic abstractions are not spatial, temporal, or mental they are not compatible with the later Idealism's emphasis on mental existence. Plato's Forms include numbers and geometrical figures, making them a theory of mathematical realism; they also include the Form of the Good, making them in addition a theory of ethical realism. < 1326159347 542573 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :people can be chronically bad at identifying root causes < 1326159390 699661 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i don't think you need to spend 10000 hours to learn the lambda calculus. < 1326159421 628103 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well it's mainly that you have to actually use those 10000 hours on _something_ < 1326159433 781131 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mathematical notations are an application of symbols < 1326159437 4150 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: this is not true for all questions I've asked on IRC, but there are many times when people try to solve an XY problem when there is none to solve. < 1326159444 655635 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: IRC! < 1326159447 962651 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really just want them to answer my actual question, and leave me alone. :P < 1326159462 387267 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: well everything you have said about your irc bot thing's design so far < 1326159464 487313 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :has been terrible < 1326159465 597738 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ooh < 1326159468 694247 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: go on < 1326159471 646661 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :symbols can be percieved through any of the senses < 1326159480 491370 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'm inclined to think that yes, you really do have a problem. < 1326159497 213673 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: plugins are bad? < 1326159499 661117 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a weird channel < 1326159505 735657 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but symbols are not the world < 1326159520 813426 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: what did you expect? :P < 1326159527 294224 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, right, it's bad if channels see XY problems where there are none; that was my experience in #python < 1326159538 72933 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :they get a lot of clueless noobs with terrible ideas < 1326159551 2049 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so if you ask how to do something weird, they assume you are a clueless noob with a terrible idea < 1326159555 115779 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think some people actually just look for an XY problem to solve because they assume that's the case 99% of the time. < 1326159575 944019 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in my case i had fairly good reasons for doing the weird thing, which took a while to explain < 1326159585 403055 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-252-140.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326159589 948658 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i was asking which Python text-templating library would be best for generating C++ code) < 1326159593 670088 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: smell symbols? taste symbols? < 1326159598 937171 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: yup < 1326159612 486382 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually many questions I've asked on #perl were asked while in the process of figuring out /what/ I want to do. so I go in, ask some insane question, and they respond with disdain and THEN ask what I'm trying to do. < 1326159616 705561 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should be the other way around. < 1326159626 907149 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which is a pretty WTF question, but I had a good reason < 1326159650 5384 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for taste, the army developed a device which can touch the tongue and feed data into the brain from a camera which can be percieved as a black and white image in the visual field < 1326159652 856468 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like that < 1326159668 596733 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so far the only bad idea I've had is attempting to hotswap my code sanely. < 1326159676 155627 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er rather < 1326159691 904373 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :bad idea I've had and mentioned extensively on this channel, about my IRC bot. /anti-lawyering < 1326159727 830100 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: also the thing where you used hideous eval tricks to do plugins < 1326159733 213600 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the "let's run plugins in their own directory" thing < 1326159742 797101 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"hideous eval tricks" = perl's internal import mechanism < 1326159743 642861 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: about smell.. if you can discriminate smells then when exposed to a series of different smells you could detect patterns < 1326159744 814935 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :speaking about #haskell because i have experience there, some specific questions are almost always XY problems < 1326159749 693937 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the "oh i don't like perl 5's oo system... so instead of like using one of the alternate ones I'll just do more insane metaprogramming" thing < 1326159750 999719 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :like "how do I convert IO Int to Int" < 1326159752 107784 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also... everything < 1326159759 513771 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or "how do I do with type classes" < 1326159768 737041 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/// < 1326159772 327698 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this i can understand.. but LC is not so easy < 1326159780 178903 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: insane metaprogramming is basically what I do with a slightly complicated project in a dynamically typed language. < 1326159783 502068 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's great. < 1326159784 790025 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"How do I define a typeclass?" "Don't. Whatever you're doing stop." < 1326159789 752653 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty much < 1326159791 691859 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Right. So you have an X-Y problem, and it's yourself. < 1326159792 800381 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-133.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1326159796 617412 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: noep < 1326159826 857843 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not writing an IRC bot to distribute to people. I am writing an IRC bot to play around with and have fun. < 1326159847 109400 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm free to do terrible things at my leisure. I might discover something good. < 1326159866 53059 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is quite surprising to me that computation is really just a branch of mathematics.. < 1326159885 273272 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is a big mental shift < 1326159905 759894 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: that's utterly irrelevant to the question of whether or not you're doing things that you really shouldn't and should instead do < 1326159917 465017 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is what the X-Y problem is all about; it's not "just for you" if you're asking other people to help with your problems. < 1326159919 563154 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :something which can be drawn from this is the idea that brains are not necessarily computers < 1326159941 302681 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, that's not a justified inference < 1326159941 462136 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: sure it is. because what should I do? what is right in a programming situation? in this case something is an XY problem if the thing I'm asking about is actually /incapable/ of solving the problem at hand. < 1326159971 581388 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: if it works but disgusts people. I... don't really care. < 1326159977 33061 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :brains discovered more mathematics than what can be computed < 1326159978 420523 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry. < 1326159991 663933 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: god this is stupid < 1326159994 481943 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it suggests to me that minds/brains are beyond computers < 1326160000 355886 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I don't have an X-Y problem because I don't care" < 1326160007 745149 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so nihilist and edgy, man! < 1326160012 104933 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : brains discovered more mathematics than what can be computed <---- false < 1326160013 912236 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no. I also explained why it's not an XY problem. < 1326160023 518419 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you say so < 1326160030 500957 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because what is the correct thing to do depends on why you are programming something. < 1326160034 662200 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is why as well as a how and a what. < 1326160046 505698 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric : >:-) < 1326160091 822393 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: who the fuck uses - dashes in an ascii arrow? < 1326160093 317396 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're sick < 1326160096 998241 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1326160108 364531 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1326160109 798113 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*4 dashes < 1326160115 675889 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: also I do use OO just not fully. my plugin code is not "eval tricks". and I'm still not really sure why changing the CWD is a bad idea. < 1326160153 757225 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: i forget which stage comes after denial but i look forward to it < 1326160166 500758 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott++ < 1326160179 613992 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1326160185 933933 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :anger. < 1326160188 983049 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: fuck you < 1326160210 754318 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't believe you exposed my terrible XY problem. < 1326160212 650504 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :great; i can deal with anger < 1326160251 706129 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :all these eval tricks and changing of current directory so that plugins can easily refer to state within their directory < 1326160262 85281 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :all not what I wanted < 1326160339 895953 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(next stage is bargaining) < 1326160361 197979 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: how about you explain to me what the problem is with changing the CWD and I'll fix it so that it adhers to The Standards of What Is Good. < 1326160361 749009 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll stop bugging you if you give me lots of money < 1326160367 131425 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no that isn't bargaining < 1326160369 743741 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i get literally nothing out of that < 1326160378 876336 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you get to sleep easy. < 1326160380 204694 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326160398 309940 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :net disconnected < 1326160458 708218 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh btw the Storable interface is not actually automatically persistent and stuff. < 1326160475 757382 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor is it tie-able or anything like that. < 1326160480 295524 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't propose Storable, I proposed a tie thing. < 1326160489 812255 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1326160504 38660 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes the last thing you proposed was Storable. I was simply informing you that it doesn't do that. < 1326160512 238488 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are obviously other ways to do it. < 1326160513 38695 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok my view of computers is that they are basically representations of humans by humans for humans < 1326160569 583423 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am curious whether they will ever achieve sentience but i feel it is unlikely < 1326160627 758840 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :why < 1326160640 113067 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't you simulate a brain with a computer < 1326160654 232591 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Causal powers, man. < 1326160658 874177 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like.. if you hollowed out a dead man's brain and replaced it with an electronic device.. theoretically you could have that device send signals to the body to move, just as an action figure moves < 1326160663 721390 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends on if the universe is in general computable, I think. < 1326160680 849883 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, even if it's not, why would we assume brains use the magical non-computable parts < 1326160690 262220 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes there's that as well. < 1326160693 967195 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that is still a dead body < 1326160695 433496 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can simulate a brain with a computer, unless magic is real and brains are magic < 1326160704 342349 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20, you are free to define "dead" that way, yes < 1326160708 500566 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: The body-moving isn't really the interesting part of a brain. < 1326160710 682802 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably you could simulate brain physics. < 1326160714 93101 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: For bad values of magic < 1326160724 347390 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1326160730 687924 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: You could wire a computer-simulated brain up to a robot. < 1326160731 442836 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then you also have to consider that the brain exists in a biological system. it has to grow and develop from an embryo. < 1326160731 599125 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I think that's as good a value of magic as you're ever going to get. < 1326160735 204470 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :natural processes are predictable and therefore simulatable < 1326160739 243192 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's just an engineering problem. < 1326160742 14039 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore anything which cannot be simulated is supernatural < 1326160757 466344 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :now some natural processes can only be simulated stochastically / statistically < 1326160769 599716 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway I've already created a conscious entity. < 1326160772 690134 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's very happy. < 1326160775 64535 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott knows. < 1326160777 954270 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which leads to the common "quantum consciousness" loophole argument < 1326160782 936691 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which i think is bunk for a couple of reasons < 1326160783 92949 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: a lot of the state in my bot is things I'd like to be human-editable. < 1326160793 862621 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: still, I could write my own tie for it. < 1326160800 205977 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :first of all, why would a stochastically predictable system with randomness be any more "conscious" than a deterministic system < 1326160817 769393 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :second, what exactly physical structure in the brain exhibits unusual / quantum-coherent behavior < 1326160819 443835 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh ho a question for #perl < 1326160833 998101 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems really unlikely that meat at above room temperature would have sophisticated quantum mechanical properties < 1326160848 908735 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the main prerequisite of life appears to be the capacity to die forever < 1326160852 153937 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a library that implements persistent hash tables that serialize to a human-editable file format? < 1326160868 546220 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20, you sound kinda stoned < 1326160881 17951 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean once a body truely dies.. its dead < 1326160887 673554 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :theres no undying < 1326160890 751998 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20, you have defined the words such that this is true < 1326160894 274393 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if its only a bacteria < 1326160895 374887 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: the main prerequisite to being able to die appears to be being able to be alive. < 1326160898 744290 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :circular logic is circular. < 1326160901 134397 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: Why do you care about bodies? < 1326160913 886052 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :all life seems to have a body :P < 1326160917 766205 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20, basically, if I show you a technology that revives a dead bacterium, you will retroactively claim that it was "not really dead" < 1326160932 959124 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Well, that _is_ practically the definition of information theoretic death... < 1326160958 755695 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: hmmm... i will say that such technology suggests people could be brought back to life :D < 1326160966 871223 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if developed enough < 1326160968 343075 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20, i think they could, with sufficient technology < 1326160973 25423 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20, are the Hela cells alive? < 1326160973 500156 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrt our existing definition of "dead" < 1326160994 196301 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont know what a hela cell is < 1326160998 986448 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hella cells < 1326161012 402780 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HeLa < 1326161022 552599 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20, we should build some kind of global hypertext information network, which could be used to answer questions like "what's a hela cell" < 1326161060 527291 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Anyway, I think it's reasonable to claim that anything you can revive isn't dead. < 1326161071 834246 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that's not a claim, it is a definition of the word "dead" < 1326161075 364911 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it is a reasonable definition < 1326161083 614260 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think that's exactly itidus20's problem < 1326161086 671889 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1326161107 458575 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :LET'S ARGUE ABOUT DEFINITIONS, EVERYBODY! < 1326161108 572328 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20, you're making statements about your own definitions of words, but phrasing them as if they were empirically testable facts about the universe < 1326161118 694488 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the laws of physics don't give a shit whether you are "dead" or not < 1326161121 864780 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its a good way to start a religion :P < 1326161133 899239 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an arbitrary term humans have invented in order to efficiently categorize different arrangements of matter < 1326161140 665591 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: You seem to really enjoy beating your head against a brick wall. You must love #haskell. < 1326161145 971010 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :to predict them more efficiently without knowing microscopic details < 1326161153 372579 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, itidus20 is the brick wall? < 1326161160 518296 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I can't possibly comment. < 1326161181 968704 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`searchlog itidus troll < 1326161188 603901 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: So, yes. < 1326161198 711156 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so how come y'all hang out in a channel full of crackpots and trolls < 1326161211 911116 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-07-31.txt:10:31:31: partially because you get the sense of control over music... unlike neighbors noise which cannot be controlled < 1326161216 132997 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: "Full of"? < 1326161218 939141 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird < 1326161225 94313 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who're the crackpots? < 1326161226 519496 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fsvo < 1326161234 156381 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I count one. < 1326161251 741456 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are like five people here i've personally seen an accusation of trolling against < 1326161257 637676 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i've only been active a few days ;P < 1326161266 546657 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :People who aren't trolls can troll. < 1326161269 575875 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i accuse myself of trolling occasionally < 1326161271 478377 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how you make a trollproof IRC channel. < 1326161276 9622 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :For instance, shachaf. < 1326161278 151155 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :however < 1326161280 725805 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1326161292 145858 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Do I troll? < 1326161294 707167 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1326161316 637908 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. This seems like it could get into another argument about definitions. < 1326161320 5753 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though my methods of arguing use fallacies, and even though i like to argue for arguments sake, i stand by my things < 1326161337 220679 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :things is a nice vague word < 1326161337 377068 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The definition of "troll" has been progressively diluted. < 1326161337 870769 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is "is" as "is" is? Discuss. < 1326161351 878737 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you do deliberately mislead people on #haskell for humorous purposes a lot. < 1326161363 347779 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, while elliott had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had itidus20's approval. < 1326161425 802072 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :given that lambda calculus is a model of computation, and that i refuse to comprehend LC properly, i love the question of whether the mind/brain/nervous system/etc is beyond a computer < 1326161437 807484 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This seems pointless. < 1326161458 705702 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know that you are all being your own universes anyway < 1326161460 209193 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the question of whether the brain is beyond a computer is beyond your brain < 1326161473 650435 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it will be a long time before anyone can prove any of these things < 1326161486 660645 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: tip: whenever you say "anyone", say "I" < 1326161496 678470 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and question whether you can really predict everyone else's abilities < 1326161507 210311 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION takes a completely extensional and reductionist view of consciousness. Hence pet.txt. < 1326161512 375305 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And elliott being a murderer. < 1326161515 437915 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its called prediction :D < 1326161525 478028 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so your basic complaint with my use of CWD was that it would be more sensible for the core code to hand out persistent hash tables and maintain them so that the plugin code doesn't have to worry about it, right? < 1326161525 634361 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ttants: extensional, existential < 1326161584 199215 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: The main reason is that it's really stupid, and there's no reason the current working directory should be privileged over the other trillion pieces of global state a Unix process running Perl has; furthermore that the way to make certain things local to a piece of code is not to rely on mutating a system global all the time to provide the illusion of a scope. < 1326161596 7859 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What to do instead is another matter. < 1326161607 730793 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it also concerns me that computation leads to cubicles instead of frolicing in nature < 1326161616 90852 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :something is not quite right with that picture < 1326161637 568360 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like something is missing < 1326161646 531597 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if computers are necessary < 1326161699 138569 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok no that was trolling < 1326161720 574422 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :KALLISTI KEEP GOING < 1326161764 274688 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Does your computer frolick in nature? < 1326161764 658122 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it's too damn cold to frolic in the nature around here, anyway < 1326161771 350531 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*frolic < 1326161773 815672 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :despite what those ski freaks say < 1326161774 662570 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Magicke. < 1326161807 948155 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the computers give nothing back < 1326161831 447861 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: You anthropomorphise approximately 100% more often than you should. < 1326161842 404019 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's privleged because it makes it less of a pain to refer to datafiles related to the program. And yes, I want them to be in one directory because I want them to be self-contained modules. the plugin directory can possibly contain anything (you dump in an entire subprogram and then hook it up to the bot with a simple glue script) < 1326161852 430837 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: also, the "illusion" is scope is actually not difficult to maintain at all. < 1326161856 9914 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*of scope < 1326161870 231816 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what other bits of unix state should I be concerned with? < 1326161880 295440 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: don't you mean that he should anthropomorphise 100% _less_? < 1326161898 962288 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't that... equivalent? < 1326161901 443848 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: He anthropomises 100% more than he should. < 1326161922 106410 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swats kallisti for failing at percentages -----### < 1326161926 815461 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Is there a polite way of telling you that your response indicates to me that I won't be able to convince you you're wrong, and so I really don't think it's worth either of our time for me to bother trying? < 1326161967 113802 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: sure. you can do it indirectly as you just did. To me, your lack of a convincing explanation is simply evidence that you don't actually have a good reason to convince me with. < 1326162009 902156 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: To quote the Austrian philosopher kallisti, "I... don't really care". < 1326162022 503862 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/the // < 1326162046 176939 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I don't really see how what I said was incorrect. < 1326162063 168894 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i was just suggesting an improvement. < 1326162082 451779 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Well, okay. < 1326162293 467062 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so you don't really have a reason other than "it's gross" and "it's stupid". okay cool. < 1326162336 913980 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Puzzle: I didn't sleep last night. When is the optimal time to go to sleep so that I wake up at ~08:00 tomorrow? < 1326162358 149166 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :how often do you normally sleep? < 1326162360 646344 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: What response are you exactly trying to solicit in response to that? It's basically just a smarmy "ha ha, you can't convince me, COOL!" so you're not going to get more than a "fuck you"... < 1326162367 448679 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, how often do you stay up late? < 1326162372 356154 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: How long do you usually sleep? < 1326162378 859787 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And what time is it now? < 1326162379 295824 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't know. < 1326162383 503861 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And when did you wake up last? < 1326162383 660614 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's 18:25 now. < 1326162388 295520 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember. < 1326162394 994824 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It sometimes takes me a few hours to wake up. < 1326162403 309568 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, when did you get up, roughly. < 1326162405 983129 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :In like a 3 hour window. < 1326162410 881672 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'M AN EXPERT DAMMIT. < 1326162417 232881 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :11-13? < 1326162418 658814 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe. < 1326162422 430291 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I was hoping for perhaps an explanation of a flaw with the current system? an example, for example. < 1326162429 312069 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...I may have stayed in bed a long time after "waking up". < 1326162463 748989 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't just prod you because I like to make you suffer. I'm actually looking for improvements but I'm currently unconvinced that this is something that needs changing. < 1326162469 726075 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-252-140.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1326162472 612755 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-155-225.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326162487 607840 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: if you have like... actual evidence of a flaw then I would be grateful to hear about it. < 1326162512 385945 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: 20:00 to 23:00; probably ideally before 22:00. I disclaim this advice even more than any other advice I give because of lack of decent information. < 1326162540 452930 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Did you hear elliott's exciting proposal for MonadZero yesterday? < 1326162542 202115 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you don't care about waking up early I'd just go to bed whenever. < 1326162546 555262 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd like* it. < 1326162556 99177 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: HE'LL JUDGE ME. < 1326162560 731851 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I have an appointment at 09:30. < 1326162578 847381 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Yes, so you probably don't care much about waking up early, but don't want to wake up late. < 1326162584 713471 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I just mentioned it in #haskell and now people are asking. < 1326162588 221229 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Go join #haskel and tell them. < 1326162593 140991 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, 19:00 to 22:00 or something. < 1326162595 677485 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :#haskell < 1326162638 177142 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1326162660 129678 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: They weren't doing that much lambdabot nonsense a few minutes ago! < 1326162681 675576 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I might be able to avoid explaining it! < 1326162689 676872 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope. < 1326162700 277974 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :cmccann is there; it's the perfect opportunity. < 1326162744 670108 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Not until somebody who isn't you asks!!! < 1326162754 46714 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Peaker asked right before you joined. < 1326162759 618406 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:29 < Peaker> shachaf: nope, what was it? < 1326162762 875463 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but I didn't hear it. < 1326162763 509186 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:29 < Peaker> shachaf: where was it? < 1326162767 699611 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now you heard it. < 1326162773 498775 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1326162776 125823 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am deaf to quotes. < 1326162829 16166 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You gotta do what you gotta do. < 1326162915 611020 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I see. I was just baiting the wrong person. < 1326163022 76043 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :did not hear < 1326163275 621920 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :dynamic scoping actually works really well with global variables. < 1326163287 761989 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it kind of eliminates some of the criticisms of global variables. < 1326163302 724452 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Hear what? < 1326163411 208687 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how quick dolio was to blame me. < 1326163424 284082 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example Data::Dumper has both package configuration variable and instance members that you can set to override the global behavior. < 1326163428 435349 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Well, you *are* awful. < 1326163440 463365 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oftentimes it's a huge pain to use the OO interface and set all of the members every time you want to dump something. < 1326163451 23276 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so instead you can locally redefine the global variables for your program. < 1326163462 127385 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Did you know that erus` hasn't accepted my answer on SO yet? < 1326163466 580950 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Truly a scoundrel < 1326163469 120181 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*. < 1326163500 215504 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Oh. Surely erus` has accepted your answer in erus`'s heart. < 1326163536 44575 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also perl has fun features such as "delete local" < 1326163558 775721 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: This awkward silence in #haskell is palpable. < 1326163573 456149 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl $x = 2; local $x = 3; delete local $x; print $x < 1326163575 94016 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :delete argument is not a HASH or ARRAY element or slice at /tmp/input.981 line 1. < 1326163579 414890 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::o < 1326163676 837837 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl use v5.10; %x = (1,2); {delete local $x{1}; say $x{1} || "nothing"} say $x{1} < 1326163677 821280 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing \ < 1326163685 697757 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:27:39 quicksilver: Yep. There should be a foldl' genericLength. < 1326163687 478989 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I think there is. < 1326163692 331923 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh? < 1326163697 163891 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is it called? < 1326163701 637062 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, there isn't. < 1326163706 712915 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But there's specialisations for Int and Integer. < 1326163712 722324 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :{-# RULES < 1326163712 878764 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : "genericLengthInt" genericLength = (strictGenericLength :: [a] -> Int); < 1326163712 878967 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : "genericLengthInteger" genericLength = (strictGenericLength :: [a] -> Integer); < 1326163712 879079 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : #-} < 1326163712 879188 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :strictGenericLength :: (Num i) => [b] -> i < 1326163713 197144 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :strictGenericLength l = gl l 0 < 1326163715 257226 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : where < 1326163717 157257 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : gl [] a = a < 1326163719 295406 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : gl (_:xs) a = let a' = a + 1 in a' `seq` gl xs a' < 1326163721 233210 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :strictGenericLength should probably be exported. < 1326163723 53251 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And be called genericLength' instead. < 1326163732 402823 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe it should be called genericLength. < 1326163742 884656 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And genericLength should be called academicGenericLength < 1326163744 354004 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: But I want length x < (4::Nat) to work. :( < 1326163768 233754 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Paul Graham says you should just write a function called "length<". < 1326163790 912255 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Gross. < 1326163844 672286 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Can you make grep -i less slow? < 1326163848 698579 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: In Common Lisp. < 1326163852 343073 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes. < 1326163858 810885 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I want you to suffer. < 1326163871 278452 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the only reason I disabled the "speed" option in the default Arch distribution of grep. < 1326163876 429206 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you logrepping? < 1326163900 500119 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`searchlog year of tool < 1326163918 466627 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2012-01-09.txt:10:23:53: no doubt because of my revolutionary searchlog tool of the year. < 1326163924 720146 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1326163933 298886 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`searchlog year of the tool < 1326163958 607640 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, kallisti update < 1326163966 142014 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1326163981 960956 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is not lying. < 1326163988 828792 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I was. < 1326163991 61976 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat `which log` < 1326163994 371329 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat: `which log`: No such file or directory < 1326163997 771271 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run cat `which log` < 1326164001 675480 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​#!/bin/sh \ cd /var/irclogs/_esoteric \ if [ "$1" ]; then \ grep -P -i -- "$1" ????-??-??.txt | shuf -n 1 \ else \ file=$(shuf -en 1 ????-??-??.txt) \ echo "$file:$(shuf -n 1 $file)" \ fi \ < 1326164005 665179 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti really got update guys honest < 1326164008 236698 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run cat run < 1326164012 352386 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat: run: No such file or directory < 1326164016 458251 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`bin/run cat bin/run < 1326164020 974135 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: /hackenv/bin/run: No such file or directory \ /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: /hackenv/bin/run: cannot execute: No such file or directory < 1326164051 522169 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: If I go to sleep too early, will I wake up in the middle of the night feeling depressed? < 1326164073 847989 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I pretty much am unable to think right now due to sleep deprivation. < 1326164128 521685 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Do you have melatonin? < 1326164132 24527 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do I pop off the first word of a string in bash? < 1326164138 482890 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: As a matter of fact, I do! < 1326164140 573593 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION just takes melatonin if he wakes up in the night post-sleep-deprivation. < 1326164149 292681 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That means you might oversleep though. < 1326164157 981862 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sucks to be you! Invest in an alarm or something. < 1326164162 309945 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Wait, that's not how you're supposed to use it, is it? < 1326164169 284985 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Probably not, but it works. < 1326164172 388093 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it was for taking right before your "regular sleeping hour". < 1326164181 849732 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like to be dependent on it because it makes me groggy, so I only take it when I really need to get to sleep and can't. < 1326164191 608541 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Anyway, "middle of the night" is relative. < 1326164209 470497 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you wake up at 4 am, that's *four whole more hours* before you have to be up! < 1326164217 471564 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's like winning the free time lottery. < 1326164230 491175 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I thought it was supposed to be very different from, you know, a sleeping pill. < 1326164249 714937 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it makes you tired. That's sort of what your body uses melatonin for? < 1326164259 645500 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, if you're trying to establish a decent sleep pattern, yes, you should take it regularly. < 1326164282 295461 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's not like it can do anything worse than mess up your sleep a bit. < 1326164360 338799 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, kmc: Did you hear elliott's exciting proposal for MonadZero yesterday? < 1326164381 738821 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: It was decided in #haskell that it's not actually exciting. < 1326164390 641477 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott feels dejected now, I think. < 1326164402 387263 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm quitting the Haskell community FOREVER. < 1326164409 996136 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The proposal is: class MonadZero m where { mzero :: m a; mfail :: b -> m a; mfail _ = mzero; mzero = mfail (error "mzero") } < 1326164454 692926 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1326164486 835769 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This lets you have informative pattern-match failure error strings without leaking source-code position information into non-IO code. < 1326164535 426681 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell oerjan Fixed @check < 1326164575 183913 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Come to think of it, mfail should probably be called mpatternfail or something, in that it's not useful for actually reporting errors in general. < 1326164668 187726 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell elliott @tell oerjan Fixed @check < 1326164701 552789 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1326164703 980944 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell oerjan Fixed @check < 1326164709 561220 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1326164717 467002 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: What if I just go to sleep now? < 1326164727 379124 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: What time is it? < 1326164729 507926 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is seriously a zombie. < 1326164731 91697 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:05 < 1326164754 211165 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I sleep for 10 hours I'll wake up at 05:00. < 1326164755 93146 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl my $x = "hello"; length $x = 4; print $x < 1326164756 834897 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't modify length in scalar assignment at /tmp/input.3107 line 1, near "4;" \ Execution of /tmp/input.3107 aborted due to compilation errors. < 1326164761 272938 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: You'll wake up between 3 and 9 or so. < 1326164770 723081 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Knowing me, I'll probably wake up around 23:00 and not be able to get to sleep again. < 1326164776 103709 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you sleep as long as I do after sleep deprivation 11:00. < 1326164780 892996 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that's not likely. < 1326164802 208314 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I somewhat doubt you'll wake up at 23:00 if you've been awake that long. < 1326164810 400521 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You'd be surprised. < 1326164818 199648 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But there's no real point staying up for the sake of a few hours. < 1326164830 883776 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION walked to Menlo Park today. It was crazy, man. < 1326164851 396597 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The thing is that as soon as I close the computer, I won't be able to fall asleep. < 1326164852 664867 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@check True < 1326164853 778464 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "OK, passed 500 tests." < 1326164854 95326 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I read that as "walked into". < 1326164859 307228 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I was, thinking, like, "accidentally?" < 1326164869 398534 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was planning to do laundry today. < 1326164871 940126 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not much chance. < 1326164883 685451 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages < 1326164884 159906 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott said 2m 59s ago: Fixed @check < 1326164950 669327 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log zjoin.*diag < 1326164962 428979 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-12-31.txt:18:54:46: > let zjoin = diag . scanl1 (zipWith (flip const)) where { diag = concat . takeWhile (not . null) . map (take 1) . foldr (\x xs -> x:map (drop 1) xs) []}; x = [[[1,2],[3,4]],[undefined]] in (zjoin $ zjoin x, zjoin $ map zjoin x) < 1326164980 468600 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@let zjoin = diag . scanl1 (zipWith (flip const)) where { diag = concat . takeWhile (not . null) . map (take 1) . foldr (\x xs -> x:map (drop 1) xs) []}; x = [[[1,2],[3,4]],[undefined]] < 1326164981 897137 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Defined. < 1326165001 226534 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Watch as oerjan attempts proof by QuickCheck. < 1326165021 879803 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: QuickCheck still doesn't support @let. < 1326165022 828850 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@check \ll -> zjoin (zjoin (ll :: [[Int]])) == zjoin (map zjoin ll) < 1326165023 978149 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `[a]' < 1326165028 714808 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or does it? < 1326165031 445441 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/QuickC/@c/ < 1326165034 995150 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1326165038 674199 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Well, Cale just fixed it. < 1326165041 374874 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So maybe he reworked it. < 1326165047 216684 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can never know with Cale. < 1326165053 304972 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t zjoin < 1326165054 218031 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. [[a]] -> [a] < 1326165069 961260 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh duh < 1326165071 534939 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> zjoin ["oerjan", "elliott"] < 1326165075 866199 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval-core: Time limit exceeded < 1326165077 813505 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@check \ll -> zjoin (zjoin (ll :: [[[Int]]])) == zjoin (map zjoin ll) < 1326165080 821054 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "Falsifiable, after 12 tests:\n[[[-7,-4,-5,-8,0,5,6,-7],[-4]],[[7,-7,-1,-3,... < 1326165086 876106 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAAAAAAAAAAAAA < 1326165090 753652 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you get the wrong zjoin < 1326165094 789937 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like how it doesn't tell you what went wrong. < 1326165097 332133 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*I < 1326165123 500045 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: What happened to all those times when you didn't capitalise your 'i's? < 1326165127 814217 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you Bourbaki? < 1326165139 20584 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the character limit on IRC again? < 1326165146 608871 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :300? < 1326165159 703250 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Yes. < 1326165159 859457 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let ll = [[[-1,-2],[-2],[2,-4],[2,-4,-4]],[[],[1,3]]] in (zjoin (zjoin ll), zjoin (map zjoin ll)) < 1326165160 813079 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :a billion / have fun < 1326165161 542419 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ([-1,3],[-1]) < 1326165167 362454 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: you can raise it by getting a short hostname < 1326165168 430540 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: 512, including prefix < 1326165179 177841 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :And connecting to a server with a short hostname < 1326165180 479805 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let ll = [[[-1,-2],[-2],[2,-4],[2,-4,-4]],[[],[1,3]]] in (zjoin (zjoin ll), map zjoin ll) < 1326165182 351541 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ([-1,3],[[-1],[]]) < 1326165191 909216 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: where is server hostname in the message? < 1326165194 956090 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, server-to-server messages? < 1326165196 539662 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Where < 1326165204 791207 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they are < 1326165209 580730 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh? < 1326165222 755810 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :When servers send your message to other servers < 1326165238 576133 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION will try out the sleep thing. < 1326165275 480874 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1326165277 579704 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Enjoy! < 1326165330 134555 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let ll = [[[-1,-2],[-2],[2,-4],[2,-4,-4]],[[],[1,3]]] in (zjoin ll) < 1326165331 876794 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [[-1,-2],[1,3]] < 1326165417 292377 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :R.I.P. monad < 1326165423 174829 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1326165486 6075 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: don't give up hope!!! < 1326165491 64470 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you can rectify the shape < 1326165532 280377 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah it's pretty obvious what happened when you see it < 1326165598 438340 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott TOPIC #esoteric :Breaking news: ZipList still not a monad! | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1326165674 48921 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, zjoin ll has no chance of preserving the information of the shape of the elements pruned away < 1326165699 709873 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> [1..] < 1326165701 513204 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Could not find module `Control.Monad.Writer': < 1326165701 668751 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : It is a member of the hidd... < 1326165712 440641 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 2 < 1326165713 90937 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION blinks < 1326165713 566019 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Could not find module `Control.Monad.Writer': < 1326165713 726802 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : It is a member of the hidd... < 1326165715 950088 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@undefine < 1326165721 166601 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :whew < 1326165723 979417 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 2 < 1326165724 808024 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Could not find module `Control.Monad.Writer': < 1326165724 964267 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : It is a member of the hidd... < 1326165727 431393 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_> < 1326165731 971012 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: no, proceed to panic < 1326165739 640528 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@unerd < 1326165740 343716 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknown command, try @list < 1326165740 541747 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@undefine < 1326165742 798004 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 2 < 1326165743 470927 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Could not find module `Control.Monad.Writer': < 1326165743 627105 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : It is a member of the hidd... < 1326165744 770897 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@undefloon < 1326165745 290471 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknown command, try @list < 1326165767 395166 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let ll = [[[-1,-2],[-2],[2,-4],[2,-4,-4]],[[],[1,3]]] in (zjoin ll) < 1326165767 891577 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@und < 1326165768 47828 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Could not find module `Control.Monad.Writer': < 1326165768 204580 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : It is a member of the hidd... < 1326165768 818781 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you meant: undefine undo < 1326165780 6218 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1326165781 114983 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's weird, it must have happened seconds ago < 1326165823 999345 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@undefine < 1326165833 181865 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How is "ZipList not a monad" breaking news? I remember someone attempted to make it a monad, I guess that failed? < 1326165838 485429 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> help < 1326165839 592181 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: `help' < 1326165845 289444 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swats Sgeo -----### < 1326165847 703740 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :YES I DID < 1326165863 963008 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh it's actually not a monad? < 1326165869 876898 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1326165879 549671 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :XChat forgot my settings again. < 1326165887 468239 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: not with the definition i made, and i don't see how to repair it. < 1326165895 103400 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Anyway, couldn't you, instead of pruning, "rearrange" the shape? < 1326165923 507213 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pad things out by repeating shapes in places that won't affect the joined shape, and use the padded spaces to put the awkward pieces of the other argument. < 1326165926 240562 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: for rectangular lists the outcome is fixed < 1326165931 532657 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, there's no other argument. < 1326165934 101792 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you sort of know what I mean. < 1326165942 967519 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yes, but you could behave specially for non-rectangular lists. < 1326165955 750310 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok so lessee < 1326165963 233907 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 2 < 1326165964 344068 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 2 < 1326165971 674902 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shocking < 1326165975 945639 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl substr("", 0,undef,"...") < 1326165976 839298 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Modification of a read-only value attempted at /tmp/input.5704 line 1. < 1326166034 11851 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@let zjoin = diag . scanl1 (zipWith (flip const)) where { diag = concat . takeWhile (not . null) . map (take 1) . foldr (\x xs -> x:map (drop 1) xs) []} < 1326166035 1146 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Defined. < 1326166111 797068 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, it's breaking news where? < 1326166112 906671 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Hey, do you still have that horrible value-mutating code? < 1326166120 76688 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :not handy < 1326166133 455449 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, topic < 1326166143 664931 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, http://hpaste.org/52266 < 1326166171 893316 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@check \ll -> (not . null . drop 1 . group $ map length ll) || zjoin (zjoin (ll :: [[[Int]]])) == zjoin (map zjoin ll) < 1326166173 475220 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "OK, passed 500 tests." < 1326166186 438034 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: cool, thanks < 1326166189 176699 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1326166191 631080 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@check \ll -> (not . null . drop 1 . group $ map length ll) || zjoin (zjoin (ll :: [[[Int]]])) == zjoin (map zjoin ll) < 1326166193 372176 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "Falsifiable, after 393 tests:\n[[[-2,-1,8],[-1,3,-8,5,-8],[3,-6],[3,2,0,4]... < 1326166194 9495 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, .... why? < 1326166196 538571 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn < 1326166208 980934 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: wouldn't you be happier not knowing? < 1326166235 151856 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, seems sarcastic... I'm guessing someone somewhere made a big deal of this and was mocked for it < 1326166248 672900 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ZipList is not a monad" is probably one of those things which seems obvious if you live in #haskell < 1326166253 735113 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf this rarely fails < 1326166255 635407 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but isn't actually written down somewhere you'd find it < 1326166269 259788 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: oerjan had a definition of join he thought would work but didn't < 1326166273 759540 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and is apparently trying to repair it now < 1326166278 511727 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: i haven't been mocked much yet < 1326166285 915416 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: not really much hope < 1326166289 279701 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1326166296 304118 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is interesting in seeing a proof it's not a monad, though, since I've just seen people assert it isn't based on vague arguments < 1326166300 602828 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*interested < 1326166319 783550 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think the amount of "oral tradition" in Haskell is bad < 1326166340 428109 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hasn't seen that much oral tradition. < 1326166385 350408 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are a lot of things #haskell can explain but can't provide a link to < 1326166414 366913 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you've read LYAH and RWH and wonder what's next < 1326166419 639067 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's hard to even discover what you should read < 1326166444 199286 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only way i know is to hang around #haskell and try to understand anything anyone says < 1326166451 717410 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and read articles / papers that way < 1326166486 287764 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you just go looking for "haskell articles" you'll find a) gibberish monad tutorials, and b) research papers which are irrelevant to 99% of real haskell code people write < 1326166502 68801 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let ll = [[[1,2],[6],[2,4,-4,1,-5,3],[-2,4],[5,4,6,3],[-2,-6,4]],[[-2,3],[4,-5,2],[-5,4,-1,4,-6,-1],[-2,0,3],[1,-6,-4,1,4,-5],[-1,1]]] in (zjoin ll, map zjoin ll) < 1326166503 754491 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ([[1,2],[4,-5,2]],[[1],[-2,-5]]) < 1326166548 509922 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :similarly how do you discover which of the 3,700 packages on Hackage are worth a damn < 1326166601 342235 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let ll = [[[1,2],[6],[2,4,-4,1,-5,3],[-2,4]],[[-2,3],[4,-5,2],[-5,4,-1,4,-6,-1],[-2,0,3]] in (zjoin ll, map zjoin ll) < 1326166602 450822 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : : parse error on input `in' < 1326166614 254810 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let ll = [[[1,2],[6],[2,4,-4,1,-5,3],[-2,4]],[[-2,3],[4,-5,2],[-5,4,-1,4,-6,-1],[-2,0,3]]] in (zjoin ll, map zjoin ll) < 1326166616 35914 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ([[1,2],[4,-5,2]],[[1],[-2,-5]]) < 1326166726 951087 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-155-225.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Quit: Reconnecting < 1326166727 426458 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let ll = [[[1,2],[]],[[-2,3],[4,-5]]] in (zjoin ll, map zjoin ll) < 1326166729 49663 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ([[1,2],[4,-5]],[[1],[-2,-5]]) < 1326166742 66112 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-155-225.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326166791 771209 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think that's close to minimal < 1326166853 520322 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: You sure do like talking about how bad the Haskell community is at teaching people :P < 1326166947 916193 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i still think it's pretty good < 1326166978 80193 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there are some flaws, and I don't see many other people talking about them < 1326166980 533366 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :See, I should write a Haskell book that covers every topic ever. < 1326166988 903607 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then there'd be no problems, because everybody could just point people there. < 1326167004 217841 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :People who point out situations not covered by the book would be summarily executed for heresy. < 1326167047 513453 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly #haskell talks about how #haskell is the #1 best most friendly channel on freenode < 1326167053 45092 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which might even be true < 1326167179 804084 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never actually seen that past like 2008. < 1326167196 24514 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders what #haskell was like in the Old Days. < 1326167249 428501 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only part of that example which isn't fixed is zjoin [[1,2],[]] = [1]. if it could be [1,something] instead that would fix that counterexample. < 1326167276 421080 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I can help: it's either [1,1] or [1,2]. < 1326167285 245404 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: That's sort of what I meant by "stuffing the gaps". < 1326167292 452243 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, join [[1],[-2,-5]] == [1,-5] would also work < 1326167299 912006 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where you'd shrink, instead throw in a value you have lying around. < 1326167305 651725 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> zjoin [[1],[-2,-5]] < 1326167307 411687 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [1] < 1326167312 744343 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, same kind of thing. < 1326167362 926662 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i'm starting to think there is probably a proof that this cannot work - if only someone had written it down somewhere we could find it. < 1326167382 348083 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But but but but don't give up HOPE! < 1326167387 335603 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm < 1326167405 225910 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :if we reinsert the 6 < 1326167415 218909 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let ll = [[[1,2],[6]],[[-2,3],[4,-5]]] in (zjoin ll, map zjoin ll) < 1326167416 999760 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ([[1,2],[4,-5]],[[1],[-2,-5]]) < 1326167438 727050 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it becomes more symmetrical < 1326167535 411981 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION should eat before he reaches *HULK SMASH* level again -> < 1326168152 431049 :Lymee!~moe@ppp-70-251-229-167.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326168152 627018 :Lymee!~moe@ppp-70-251-229-167.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net QUIT :Changing host < 1326168152 627187 :Lymee!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan JOIN :#esoteric < 1326168175 258336 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1326168182 412619 :Lymee!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan NICK :Lymia < 1326168672 58660 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh... I forgot how date math works.. < 1326168689 88177 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I take the absolute difference between minute, hour, day, month, year, etc < 1326168698 717230 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that should work right? < 1326168701 276708 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes I think it should. < 1326168859 225638 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh? < 1326168892 218337 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just going to use a datetime thing.. < 1326168894 266813 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: your description is sufficiently ambiguous that i'm not sure if you're terribly wrong or not. < 1326168900 111048 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I'm pretty sure I'm wrong. < 1326168955 944173 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does "work" even mean < 1326168958 399914 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are you trying to do < 1326168962 247632 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean i _can_ interpret it in such a way that it gives a meaningful answer. barely. < 1326168995 251427 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: take the difference between two dates? < 1326169015 318357 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: "Difference"? < 1326169018 720650 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1326169028 75892 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It was sunny today, and rainy this other day, so... 70%." < 1326169042 482643 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :????? < 1326169046 121735 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's weather < 1326169047 222242 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not dates. < 1326169057 368921 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION facepalm < 1326169079 674237 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait no. it is definitely terribly wrong, because even my charitable interpretation breaks down for leap years. < 1326169093 352810 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Date libraries exist for a reason. < 1326169095 919473 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Time is hard. < 1326169115 254671 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was going to avoid a CPAN dependency but then I remembered that dates are annoying to work with. < 1326169130 850091 :Darth_Cliche!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326169149 221240 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: you are being horribly vague in such a matter that it _looks_ like you're making a horrible train wreck but it's impossible to be sure. < 1326169155 709656 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*such a way < 1326169164 684097 :Darth_Cliche!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net NICK :Klisz < 1326169187 563982 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl use DateTime < 1326169188 397919 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't locate DateTime.pm in @INC (@INC contains: /etc/perl /usr/local/lib/perl/5.10.1 /usr/local/share/perl/5.10.1 /usr/lib/perl5 /usr/share/perl5 /usr/lib/perl/5.10 /usr/share/perl/5.10 /usr/local/lib/site_perl .) at /tmp/input.11100 line 1. \ BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at /tmp/input.11100 line 1. < 1326169189 662719 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: XY problem!! XY problem!! kallisti is never doing the wrong thing. < 1326169204 846570 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you guys must have missed the part where I decided to use a date library from CPAN < 1326169215 831890 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: actually the problem is he hasn't told us _either_ X or Y properly :D < 1326169222 465414 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: No, I just continued mocking you after that too! :D < 1326169227 620072 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Cody__: what's the type signature you should expect for findMin? < 1326169227 776629 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Hold on < 1326169227 932677 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :* nexion has quit (Quit: Leaving) < 1326169227 932861 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :* LeNsTR|off is now known as LeNsTR < 1326169228 135445 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : findMin :: [Ixs] -> [x]. Not very good with typeclasses. < 1326169230 33634 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : findMin :: [x] -> [x]. < 1326169233 590972 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I honestly think people believe #haskell is a Haskell tutorial. < 1326169236 845121 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's okay to be wrong when finding the correct solution. < 1326169270 56405 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather, when in the process of doing so. < 1326169307 271004 :DCliche!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1326169360 368191 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : I honestly think people believe #haskell is a Haskell tutorial. <-- i'm sure some of it's popularity is because it de facto works as one. < 1326169369 728427 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*its < 1326169375 919282 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yes, unfortunately. < 1326169537 393520 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another problem introduced by Daylight Saving Time is that certain local times just do not exist. For example, in the US in 2003, the transition from standard to saving time occurred on April 6, at the change to 2:00:00 local time. The local clock changes from 01:59:59 (standard time) to 03:00:00 (saving time). This means that there is no 02:00:00 through 02:59:59 on April 6! < 1326169542 398154 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :loooool < 1326169580 771634 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Attempting to create an invalid time currently causes a fatal error. This may change in future version of this module. < 1326169608 70913 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is actually one of the better datetime packages I've seen. < 1326169652 462331 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://search.cpan.org/~drolsky/DateTime-0.72/lib/DateTime/Infinite.pm < 1326169653 262032 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :..... < 1326169931 328253 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: SLEEP, GLORIOUS SLEEP < 1326171916 232995 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-155-225.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: BTW, DC updated (on time!) < 1326171966 833522 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks District of Columbia! < 1326172653 200771 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1326173609 794322 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm type families would be good for defining chess variants, I think. < 1326173629 25975 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well an associated type family < 1326173634 965458 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :to define the pieces < 1326173953 222617 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also there's at least one haskell tutorial which actually embeds a chat window for #haskell < 1326173955 337970 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(tryhaskell.org) < 1326173968 808796 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i remember when that hit the Reddit front page < 1326173977 332138 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the channel was full of people who were like < 1326173978 955281 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF IS THIS < 1326173980 680855 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :FAGZ < 1326173982 184922 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :/part < 1326174075 988280 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1326174091 714045 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tryhaskell has an irc client? < 1326174094 906441 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess i never got that far < 1326174102 718066 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1326174108 890781 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it embeds the freenode webchat thingy < 1326174114 711327 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :aw, boring < 1326174115 503189 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which i guess is javascript / ajax these days < 1326174120 202012 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1326174124 485124 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should have a haskell irc client < 1326174127 214718 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be cooler if it made you write some part of an IRC client in haskell < 1326174130 367524 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1326174130 526260 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1326174132 138058 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :say irc "hi!!" < 1326174139 46319 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :too bad it's not actually running haskell in the browser < 1326174142 327753 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybeGetNextLine irc < 1326174146 601053 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :unlike http://try.ocamlpro.com/ < 1326174172 310311 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Why_Haskell_just_works < 1326174179 840169 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :best article title < 1326174189 62111 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Why_Haskell_is_the_most_amazingly_awesome_thing_ever < 1326174229 242879 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :impress your friends and intimidate your enemies with haskell < 1326174307 798635 :qfr!void@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :I gave up on Haskell a long time ago < 1326174327 314448 :qfr!void@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :I returned to Ruby/C++/C# :S < 1326174360 773920 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :qfr: my condolences < 1326174436 225342 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :R/Ruby/Racket/REBOL < 1326174444 824759 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :C/C++/COBOL/CommonLisp < 1326174453 677031 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :FORTRAN/Factor/Forth < 1326174501 465398 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :J/Java < 1326174518 639310 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1326174547 380002 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Joy? < 1326174636 632605 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1326174757 589465 :atrapado!~insekt@95.169.240.79 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1326175753 658038 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326175928 693840 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ...I told you. < 1326175934 271813 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:11. < 1326175940 246473 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is going to suffer now. < 1326175959 58776 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Seriously? < 1326175960 987248 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Go back to sleep. < 1326175990 904049 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt it'll work. < 1326176000 141032 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This one person who's awake is just outside the door, loudly. < 1326176024 665644 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION just outsides the door loudly sometimes too. < 1326176030 460921 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh well, I did disclaim my advice. < 1326176067 596741 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION will see what he can do. < 1326176068 292065 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-155-225.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@time elliott < 1326176069 495552 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Local time for elliott is Tue Jan 10 06:14:14 < 1326176129 97675 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Shhh. < 1326178649 248409 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: SLEEP, GLORIOUS SLEEP < 1326184855 251689 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle (a -> f b) -> [a] -> f [b] < 1326184856 915131 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude mapM :: Monad m => (a -> m b) -> [a] -> m [b] < 1326184857 112842 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Monad mapM :: Monad m => (a -> m b) -> [a] -> m [b] < 1326184857 269319 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Monad forM :: Monad m => [a] -> (a -> m b) -> m [b] < 1326184857 269512 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I know.) < 1326184921 799929 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I found an impressive ravine system in mc. About 10 intersecting ravines. One of them breaching the surface < 1326184933 452477 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :the result was that there was naturally sunlit redstone ore < 1326185062 452578 :qfr!void@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal you Haskell people are crazy < 1326185069 843181 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :qfr, that was minecraft stuff? < 1326185072 481150 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not haskell < 1326185083 563493 :qfr!void@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1326185102 487387 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :qfr, how would that even make sense as haskell!? < 1326185110 593945 :qfr!void@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was a joke :\ < 1326185114 21613 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1326185137 685124 :qfr!void@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :"But did you find any co-ravines?" etc < 1326185150 326530 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-155-225.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Clearly Ravine is an instance of Monad and Num. < 1326185156 140984 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, :D < 1326185180 311466 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :also two mineshaft systems intersecting this < 1326185191 682048 :qfr!void@unaffiliated/yw PRIVMSG #esoteric :Om nom nom shafts < 1326185210 67888 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :also thanks to the technic pack there are TONS of ore here < 1326185312 812379 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :err I just dug away a bit of ore and found yet another ravine just behind it < 1326185508 472119 :cswords_!~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1326186090 702784 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz JOIN :#esoteric < 1326186172 902527 :_Slereah!~butt@ANantes-259-1-163-147.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1326186235 880836 :Slereah!~butt@ANantes-259-1-217-73.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1326186321 417544 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1326186687 891136 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You know, there's a channel for that. < 1326187408 63231 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh right < 1326187413 616947 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway it is kind of cool < 1326188405 531215 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Raving ravines. < 1326190201 896547 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326190392 240889 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1326191871 735179 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1326192603 521704 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: You're a really calm dude, right? Give me the secrets of the calm, I need them. < 1326192769 550752 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you know, basically they're just your regular mollusks, except they have this hinged shell thing going on. Normally they just kind of sit there and... wait, calm, not clam. Never mind. < 1326192807 832677 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Also your funnies, tell me the secrets of funnise. < 1326192809 929814 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :funnies. < 1326192840 173097 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deliberate misunderstandings are one class of funnies. < 1326192860 254448 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1326192863 64890 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also nondeliberate since you can always just say "I meant to do that". < 1326193060 526132 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the soviet-russia-transformation of noun-subject present-tense-transitive-verb noun-object into noun-object present-tense-transitive-verb noun-subject < 1326193235 230700 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326193330 463372 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every time you , god kills another . < 1326193513 406493 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey QUIT :Quit: The Other Game < 1326193677 456638 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : hi < 1326193677 651016 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : anybody know how to call a pointer to function in linux C ? < 1326193680 33435 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :--#haskell < 1326193759 482845 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how do you call a pointer to function in linux C? you've taught C, you're the expert < 1326193795 551132 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you can't call a pointer; if you want to call the function it points to, p(args) or (*p)(args) < 1326193800 128486 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first is more common, second is clearer < 1326193817 195070 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it doesn't matter whether it's Linux C or any other sort of C, not counting some embedded C-likes that don't have function pointers < 1326193840 791825 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: thanks! < 1326193860 874926 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: now I'm trying to work out if you're being sarcastic or not < 1326193865 99388 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(they apparently couldn't ask in ##c because their nick isn't registered, which is an interesting reason to ask a C question in #haskell...) < 1326193873 973619 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, it was certainly a very good explanation. < 1326193935 365152 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : blog it in my pm if you don't want it here ;; this is definitely some new sense of the word "blog" of which I was not previously aware < 1326193935 523461 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not as good as a "you can call a pointer anything you want, it's not sentient". < 1326193967 562183 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: heh, indeed < 1326194307 220762 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wiki spam < 1326194321 277542 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Take me for example. I could support Bachman, Cain, Palin, or Santorum. in no particular order. Others would choose fewer plus Paul., http://brendasongbikinivo.freeforums.org brenda song bikini, >:[[ < 1326195002 865652 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliot is a palin supporter??? < 1326195018 82344 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: elliott's quoting spam, I think < 1326195022 966336 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just without quote marks or an attribution < 1326195027 524710 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I generally do a when I quote spam < 1326195030 27406 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds like plagarism < 1326195064 25049 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagines super mario kart on a mobius strup with rectangular sections of track which can pivot. i assure you it's boring, but noteable < 1326195272 392163 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: yes i'm a die hard "true"publican < 1326195280 728543 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like most brits. < 1326195360 853368 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> return True >>= `when` Just () < 1326195361 845725 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : : parse error on input ``' < 1326195365 162776 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (return True >>=) `when` Just () < 1326195366 164232 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `GHC.Bool.Bool' < 1326195366 320612 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred type ... < 1326195368 797065 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (return True >>=) $ `when` Just () < 1326195369 828955 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : : parse error on input ``' < 1326195379 202954 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... yeah, that won't work < 1326197358 426931 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hey, do you know an easy way to make C-j indent to the previous line, rather than using the mode's autoindentation? < 1326197868 259649 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1326198184 608064 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t scanl tail [1,2,3,4] < 1326198185 500156 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `b -> [a]' against inferred type `[a]' < 1326198185 655768 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : In the first argument of `scanl', namely `tail' < 1326198185 655950 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : In the expression: scanl tail [1, 2, 3, 4] < 1326198197 353298 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t scanl < 1326198198 343096 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b. (a -> b -> a) -> a -> [b] -> [a] < 1326198202 742834 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> scanl f z [a,b,c,d] < 1326198203 850837 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [z,f z a,f (f z a) b,f (f (f z a) b) c,f (f (f (f z a) b) c) d] < 1326198205 603095 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1326198800 438773 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 , Skype: patashu0 . < 1326199394 104416 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src scanl < 1326199394 420708 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :scanl f q ls = q : case ls of < 1326199394 579481 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [] -> [] < 1326199394 735742 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : x:xs -> scanl f (f q x) xs < 1326199581 322871 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION keeps forgetting that scanl makes the first item be the 0 thing < 1326199647 438662 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t scanr < 1326199648 391701 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b. (a -> b -> b) -> b -> [a] -> [b] < 1326199661 345694 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> scanr f z [a,b,c,d] < 1326199662 297743 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [f a (f b (f c (f d z))),f b (f c (f d z)),f c (f d z),f d z,z] < 1326199794 679242 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326199826 874251 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1326199827 191376 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. < 1326201402 468689 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326201434 690960 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the /correct/ way is to write a minor mode that rebinds the key, but I'm not sure if it qualifies as "easy" < 1326201490 493163 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I don't care about the correct way :P < 1326201516 559155 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, it's probably easier than the alternatives < 1326201538 542287 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and once you've done it once, it'll work from then onwards (you'd be adding a command that'd be M-x control-j-line-up-mode or whatever) < 1326201573 189447 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are you trying to do, anyway? doing it with different commands altogether might be the really lazy easy solution < 1326201627 352758 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: make C-j indent to the previous line, rather than using the mode's autoindentation < 1326201635 354387 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no, I mean in more detail < 1326201637 615206 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see why a minor mode matters when I can just rebind the key directly < 1326201638 925044 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, why do you want to do that? < 1326201644 642 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that /is/ what I want to do < 1326201647 626094 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an editor, that's my end goal < 1326201657 36513 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to change what it means for me to push ctrl and then j < 1326201657 352195 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh, you mean as a permanent editor setting? < 1326201668 588470 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, only in haskell-mode, but I believe there's a rebind-in-map thing < 1326201674 736870 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least I remember using one once < 1326201693 742764 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you meant you were trying to edit a file where you wanted to change the meaning of C-j for a while as you were doing something unusual indentation-wise < 1326201701 292649 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, let me check, I think I've written similar code for intercal-mode < 1326202059 509042 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: untested: (defun newline-and-indent-relative-maybe () "Insert a newline, then indent like the previous line." (interactive) (newline) (indent-relative-maybe)) (define-key haskell-mode-map "\C-J" 'newline-and-indent-relative-maybe) < 1326202063 730458 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for your .emacs file < 1326202143 945712 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems to require that the haskell code's loaded first, though < 1326202182 755713 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I forget the syntax to do that < 1326202201 249798 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, hmm, I bet you'd put it in the hook for haskell-mode loading < 1326202259 65327 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott? < 1326202270 589662 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your elips, it was too much for him. < 1326202276 166233 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/ps/sp/ < 1326202282 296860 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's lost within Emacs now. < 1326202834 234795 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well < 1326202840 832655 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :he'll probably escape eventually, it isn't TV Tropes < 1326202908 957720 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, we'll just get a final mysterious "it's full of parentheses" transmission. < 1326203204 509194 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :back, sorry < 1326203215 450426 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: thanks! < 1326203268 839645 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :indent-relative-maybe seems to be what you were asking for for lining up, and the newline's there because you wanted a newline first < 1326203310 951678 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I did understand it :P < 1326203399 831317 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders what the emacs function that makes the current line empty if it's just whitespace is < 1326203408 928328 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :most C-j functions seem to call it, and that override seems to disable that feature < 1326203821 993261 :_Slereah!~butt@ANantes-259-1-163-147.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr NICK :Slereah < 1326205885 21768 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION reads the C committee and Austin Group yell at each other point-by-point < 1326205890 48879 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, I don't think [this TR] would be especially useful, and I < 1326205890 205633 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't envision it gaining wide acceptance due to the following: < 1326205890 205811 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : awkward names with _s suffix < 1326205890 205970 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Committee Response: < 1326205890 206076 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is less awkward than the posix_ prefix :-) < 1326205905 488902 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Can you imagine the C commitee using a /smiley face/? < 1326205923 585042 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1326205936 536065 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION can't. < 1326205969 234798 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[ < 1326205969 750216 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : people that want to manipulate strings are probably better off using < 1326205969 906740 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : C++ unless they're concerned with speed in time-critical loops in < 1326205970 63023 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : which they don't want to be doing superfluous checks anyway. < 1326205970 63199 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Committee Response: < 1326205970 267201 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :We believe this TR is of interest to those that have a large C Legacy code, and do not have the option or want to change to C++. < 1326205973 179710 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :]] < 1326205982 580340 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION can't tell whether the commitee are just being accommodating, or really do see C as a legacy language. < 1326206002 741684 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: they mean that quite a lot of people have existing C code < 1326206008 876717 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's legacy in that sense < 1326206045 969221 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, yes, but that's the only objection they offer to "just use C++" < 1326206056 574800 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they only need one objection :) < 1326206064 904644 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair enough :P < 1326206082 333384 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[ edited out suggestion for additional robustness checking functions, < 1326206082 492218 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :available on request ]] < 1326206082 648761 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Committee Response: < 1326206082 648941 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the author wants to generate a proposal and submit this proposal to WG14, it will be considered. < 1326206085 928982 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ICE BURN < 1326206114 186751 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I wonder where this "generate"-as-author(v.) jargon comes from; the committee are using it a lot here.) < 1326206127 964835 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the "available on request" implies to me that the suggestion was probably pure trolling < 1326206131 293773 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :that reminds me, I need to write that paper for WG14 < 1326206165 322791 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dear WG14, < 1326206166 115667 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Perhaps even an 12ICE 4BURN < 1326206172 229737 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Please die. < 1326206176 477184 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Love, < 1326206180 242069 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Elliott < 1326206188 151260 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: YOU BROKE MY FORMATTING KICK YOUSRELF. < 1326206204 304800 :ChanServ!ChanServ@services. MODE #esoteric +o :fizzie > 1326206204 671186 NAMES :#esoteric < 1326206206 437680 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie KICK #esoteric fizzie :fizzie < 1326206206 598266 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie JOIN :#esoteric < 1326206209 17398 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks. < 1326206215 817044 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You forgot to -o yourself. < 1326206222 369451 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even if you're kicked, it's the spirit of the thing. < 1326206227 720969 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think that it was edited out by the Austin group. < 1326206227 880656 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1326206232 98464 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The committee's remarks are in a different font. < 1326206236 247221 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, perhaps < 1326206245 313915 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the Austin Group text is monospaced and indented) < 1326206272 970129 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-12-141.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1326206273 592970 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-12-141.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1326206273 749090 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1326206327 539009 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, ah, it seems like they view the /functions in question/ as primarily useful for legacy code < 1326206332 902389 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's the _s stuff) < 1326206342 957233 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably, they hope newly-written code doesn't need safeguards like that to ensure safety < 1326206343 935749 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, the _s stuff < 1326206350 91576 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Microsoft have been trying to get them to add that for years < 1326206354 81807 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably decades now, actually < 1326206366 115149 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, literally everyone is complaining about the "secure" name for them < 1326206380 226082 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the committee keep saying "see previous answer", where they went "you're wrong, but we've changed it anyway to shut you up" < 1326206420 772166 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I guess they succeeded, since gets was replaced by gets_s < 1326206426 542994 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1326206426 702159 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1326206426 858483 :Nisstyre!~yours@c-208-90-102-250.netflash.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1326206427 719281 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably there are others in the same vein < 1326206435 389387 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, removing gets was definitely a good idea < 1326206436 83885 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1326206436 84034 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1326206449 822041 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326206457 371324 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the "secure" thing was Microsoft propaganda < 1326206469 82619 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to try to persuade people to write their code in a way incompatible with other compilers < 1326206483 269171 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326206492 6565 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz JOIN :#esoteric < 1326206523 102276 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm scared of this "diagnosed undefined behaviour" concept the thing apparently referred to < 1326206534 877113 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wasn't it just _s for 'safe'? < 1326206539 992320 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326206543 227613 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: the title was blah blah secure blah < 1326206556 272480 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also don't want to know what fopen_s does; adds a "don't read past this many bytes of the filename argument" param? < 1326206564 6275 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: almost certainly < 1326206568 519940 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and knowing Microsoft, the mode argument too < 1326206583 600375 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1326206602 848899 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, that was funnier when I thought fopen used a numeric mode like open(2) < 1326206604 399719 :Nisstyre!~yours@c-208-90-102-250.netflash.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326206612 398740 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It's errno_t fopen_s(FILE** pFile, const char *filename, const char *mode) in Microsoft libs. < 1326206625 698752 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: if, e.g. you think you might have only two bytes of the mode safe for reading, but it's an int argument < 1326206636 318494 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: oh right, the Microsoft versions return errno < 1326206647 809290 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt the committee versions do < 1326206651 993398 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope they don't < 1326206663 171590 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: And it just validates the pointers in case of NULLs, it doesn't have a filename length field. < 1326206669 838063 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, if they have incompatible functions to Microsoft's with the same names, Microsoft will probably get annoyed < 1326206691 381431 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(whereas if that happened with glibc, they'd just add another layer of feature test macros and another few tests in autoconf) < 1326206734 717949 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :.cs is the file extension for C# source code, right? < 1326206741 892416 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: well, it's easy enough to make fopen validate nulls < 1326206746 431289 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes < 1326206761 370678 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: N1570: "errno_t fopen_s(FILE * restrict * restrict streamptr, const char * restrict filename, const char * restrict mode);" -- it's very similar. < 1326206772 78051 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1326206846 93755 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: thanks < 1326206856 646254 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: haha, it introduces an errno_t? < 1326206859 156889 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, in theory you could use anything, but .cs seems most common < 1326206866 401652 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: errno_t already existed, I think < 1326206869 495355 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although maybe only in POSIX < 1326206889 622149 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not in C99 < 1326206919 20705 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not in C99; it's explicitly defined to be equivalent to "int" in C11. < 1326206949 55960 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :How useful. < 1326206984 738855 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[ < 1326206992 864274 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :----------------------------------------------- < 1326206993 22564 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :>From Ulrich Drepper < 1326206993 178906 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The proposed safe(r) ISO C library fails to address to issue completely. < 1326206993 179091 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : The problem with the existing interfaces is that the programmer has to < 1326206993 179195 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :put in a lot of additional effort to make sure the program behaves < 1326206993 656837 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :correctly. In many situations a much simpler code, with all kinds of < 1326206995 440364 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :error checking removed, works equally well and therefore is left out. < 1326206997 383162 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is the core of the problem. Code is rather written like < 1326206999 445124 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[...] < 1326207001 360101 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Proposing to make the life of a programmer even harder is not going to < 1326207003 460523 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :help. But this is exactly what is proposed. [...] < 1326207004 728594 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The rationale in somewhere is that it makes it "semantically" clear that what is returned is an error code. < 1326207005 363982 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Committee Response: < 1326207007 426084 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :This committee is not addressing lazy programmers. < 1326207009 368440 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :]] < 1326207101 907853 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: somehow I think that point might have been made better if it wasn't Drepper trying to make it < 1326207120 381687 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it was fairly well-made, I just snipped out all the irrelevant parts < 1326207128 928152 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I see < 1326207133 846790 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the actual committee response is < 1326207137 655911 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[ < 1326207138 609409 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :This committee is not addressing lazy programmers. The committee felt the examples given were a little misleading, and believe that < 1326207138 768296 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : char *p = malloc (3 * NAME_LEN); < 1326207138 924716 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : strcpy_s (p, 3 * NAMELEN, name1); // there will be a constraint violation if malloc failed < 1326207138 924898 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : strcat_s (p, 3 * NAMELEN, name2); < 1326207139 86755 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : strcat_s (p, 3 * NAMELEN, name3); < 1326207141 208532 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :will generate a much safer outcome. < 1326207143 234292 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the first example given, if the malloc failed, there would have been < 1326207145 176382 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :undefined behavior, as there would have been if < 1326207147 161518 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :strlen(name1)+strlen(name2)+strlen(name3) > 3*NAMELEN. < 1326207149 105716 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, < 1326207151 166848 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :with this simple substitution for the safer functions, < 1326207153 186808 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no undefined behavior. If malloc failed, at the end of this code < 1326207155 137580 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fragment, p would be NULL, and no undefined actions would have occurred < 1326207157 171857 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(though the implementation defined constraint violation handler would have < 1326207159 273497 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :been executed three times). If the overall length was too long, then p would < 1326207161 276385 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :point to memory that had the first byte set to 0. This memory could be < 1326207163 221186 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :successfully freed later. < 1326207165 150195 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :]] < 1326207167 129068 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is (a) much more reasonable, (b) much less funny < 1326207171 258279 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cf. ais523 v. Installing Gentoo with 3 commands < 1326207192 885415 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I prefer reasonable to funny < 1326207234 994817 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I was writing some Neverwinter Nights scripting code recently < 1326207245 490888 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the main unusual feature of that language is error values propagating < 1326207268 489051 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, you can pass arbitrary arguments to any of the API functions, and get a return value meaning that something went wrong < 1326207284 83018 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it makes sense for a game; if someone's missing, then it just ends up skipping the bits of the script that apply to them < 1326207290 621445 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I feel a bit weird when I deliberately use that fact < 1326207303 536673 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was a big fight in comp.lang.c on the "library functions should, in addition to testing for NULL, also use some sort of platform-specific functions to check that the pointers point to readable/writable memory" topic. < 1326207333 524071 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The IsBadReadPtr and IsBadWritePtr things mentioned in there.) < 1326207340 36994 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: as in, f(nil) -> nil? < 1326207344 380756 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yep < 1326207346 452288 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Objective-C has [nil anything] -> nil < 1326207348 928704 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is comparable < 1326207367 60234 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: although instead of nil, it uses 0, "", and OBJECT_INVALID < 1326207370 565278 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think Icon has similar < 1326207375 512477 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a bit uglier < 1326207385 558479 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OBJECT_INVALID is fine, but 0 and "" aren't because they're sometimes reasonable return values in their own right < 1326207409 125118 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love Icon because it's one of the only languages where "x < (y | z)" DTRT < 1326207424 259260 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: do you love Perl 6 for the same reason? < 1326207444 664094 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, how is it phrased there? < 1326207479 891166 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's actually exactly the same < 1326207481 475997 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure, though < 1326207513 382951 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION updates Rakudo < 1326207677 351256 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION fails to update Rakudo < 1326207697 613500 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: don't worry, you suceed a few minutes ago < 1326207704 939701 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just wait for Feather < 1326207715 838504 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*succeed < 1326207740 467812 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to retry from scratch < 1326208101 895028 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: as long as you go back afterwards < 1326208121 823498 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I'm thinking about the irony of Rakudo's configure script being written in Perl 5 < 1326208129 890525 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's perfectly natural, just seems a little out of place < 1326208160 717159 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1326208734 389711 :anders!anders@unaffiliated/anders PART :#esoteric < 1326208744 582443 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1326208748 624266 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326208970 934779 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326209142 270933 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1326209208 862446 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523 < 1326209491 545997 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326210511 201181 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what does knowing the partial order of a data type do for me? < 1326210629 993378 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :gives you a partial order < 1326210672 537627 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : You must be desperate to know what a father of the groom speech is if you are reading this now. < 1326210704 956192 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1326210707 320754 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am! < 1326210719 871479 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Has he joined Obama in Wonderland where up is down and left is right? What's "fiscally conservative" about voting for every spending measure in sight?" < 1326210720 981551 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's simultaneously right on one level and wrong on a different one < 1326210724 791998 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Our spambots are quite Republican lately. < 1326210728 77786 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is much more interesting than being right on multiple levels < 1326210776 569063 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders where all those quotes are coming from; they seem verbatim, but googling them just turns up more spam. < 1326210953 866391 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably the spam's out-SEOed the original quote < 1326211260 817105 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :up is down black is white and short is long < 1326211332 337689 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl (x y z -> z ++ "|" ++ y ++ "|" ++ z) < 1326211333 61523 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(line 1, column 8): < 1326211333 217788 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :unexpected ">" < 1326211333 217967 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :expecting variable, "(", operator or ")" < 1326211336 426355 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl (\x y z -> z ++ "|" ++ y ++ "|" ++ z) < 1326211337 190647 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :const (ap (++) . (('|' :) .) . (. ('|' :)) . (++)) < 1326211428 61247 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326211445 317838 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1326211496 780863 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I managed to mention esoteric programming languages in my General Studies exam < 1326211519 746716 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: that's cheating, you can mention /anything/ in a General Studies exam and not lose a significantly significant number of marks < 1326211537 657135 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's my first A-level exam < 1326211544 482574 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, not /really/ < 1326211554 530381 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Got Maths exam on Friday, should I continue the pattern? < 1326211556 594716 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :General Studies doesn't count, apart from being embarrassing if you fail it < 1326211566 872720 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: if you reasonably can, I guess < 1326211577 810586 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should be harder to slip into Maths than General Studies without looking out of place, though < 1326211581 533011 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: right so < 1326211582 289306 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote my high school English diploma examination on Order of the Stick < 1326211587 252140 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does having a partial order do for you? < 1326211588 656274 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, is Maths still Module-based? < 1326211593 494087 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of my friends managed to mention Star Wars in every single GCSE exam < 1326211595 238914 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes < 1326211598 320439 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :aside from giving you a nice Ord instance. :P < 1326211617 554488 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, he, nice < 1326211688 151140 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmmm lentils < 1326211698 808192 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :it as kind of a lame essay though < 1326211701 666536 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I didn't have focus < 1326211709 881975 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well, my essay-writing days are mostly over < 1326211727 206350 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and I can still write pages about rules ;) ) < 1326212621 955276 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : One of my friends managed to mention Star Wars in every single GCSE exam < 1326212637 88876 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, he must have a lot of time on his hands. < 1326212637 246554 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That he sat, of course < 1326212649 572405 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :He didn't mention it in the ones he didn't sit < 1326212692 155499 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, one of my folio pieces for Higher English was "Comic Sans: a Sad Indictment of Our Times". < 1326212808 628381 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Success(-ish)! < 1326212909 217639 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION → goddamn STEP preparation. < 1326213430 938306 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Ish! The best kind. < 1326214096 26326 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I think I'll just let you take over. < 1326214134 275433 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I apologise for bringing up Char8 :( < 1326214162 715643 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You can make up for it by accusing nexion of being racist, like a certain member of #haskell would. < 1326214206 900041 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...what? < 1326214236 702481 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: People who say they "don't need Unicode" are usually under the influence of some rather heavy cultural bias. < 1326214245 253930 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: You'd think Haskell users would appreciate the value of using types that say what you mean. < 1326214298 350332 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Almost every programming language which has keywords has those keywords in English < 1326214299 340862 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1326214304 141631 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Standard library names, etc. < 1326214320 827274 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Maybe you shouldn't try and comment on discussions you only see the behind-the-back commentary on? < 1326214322 98965 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You'd be surprised! < 1326214333 937213 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :God dammit mm_freak! < 1326214354 201665 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Hey, if this was SO, I would be getting rep for my pain. < 1326214361 424691 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION isn't getting rep for his pain. < 1326214373 41456 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I am present in #haskell , my comment was somewhat tangential, I guess. < 1326214391 349729 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I'm just plain not sure what the relevance is, then. < 1326214452 281768 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That there does seem to be heavy cultural bias in ... programming. Although not in such a way that it affects end-users the way a failure to do text right does. < 1326214478 322740 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Sure you are, elliott++ < 1326214500 382020 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yessss < 1326214529 381317 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait, why am I arguing with mauke, I distinctly remember him being an ASCII-pushing traditionalist. < 1326214536 139505 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has little encyclopedia entries for everybody in his head. < 1326214536 613960 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:54 < nexion> Sgeo, yeah, I use that for the Unicode sections of the stream < 1326214547 828812 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :All negative, who needs to remember good things about people. < 1326214559 499822 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's good to hear that the stream has "Unicode sections". < 1326214582 658566 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But of course the rest of it is ASCII. < 1326214586 949195 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably, the word POST or GET or whatever never contains non-ASCII characters, is his point? < 1326214587 628727 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: They only need ASCII! < 1326214622 875735 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: "heavily optimised" < 1326214631 502335 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I saw a blog post with #s in it once. < 1326214637 974655 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's heavily optimised enough for me, tyvm. < 1326214642 698641 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote a program wih #s in it once. < 1326214648 689252 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> ord '#' < 1326214649 689211 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 35 < 1326214659 608122 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: (Is Text not actually fast?) < 1326214663 419638 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, the structure sucks, but. < 1326214678 745480 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not nearly as fast as ByteString when you're processing ASCII in certain cases. < 1326214686 32938 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least, when I last tried it. < 1326214699 399849 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Well, who gives a shit; ideological purity trumps all. < 1326214707 973963 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure. < 1326214716 156489 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...In some cases. < 1326214732 83026 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like "why can't I pattern-match ByteStrings?". < 1326214745 931801 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's 08:58, by the way. < 1326214758 398775 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : I don't care how "heavily optimised" Text is; it's got stupidity built in < 1326214761 808416 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use view patterns and uncons < 1326214762 960201 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if the "stupidity" is Unicode. < 1326214765 930852 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1326214787 506324 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326214795 259740 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow I'm somehow still connected < 1326214798 452255 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is strange < 1326214807 766712 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :since the computer suspended to disk < 1326214833 197750 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Not when it's O(n/k)! < 1326214854 878907 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I didn't notice the power cable had been disconnected and I wasn't using the laptop at the time, I only noticed when I heard the "burp" from the dvd drive that it makes while suspending to disk) < 1326214859 558005 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: What's multiplication, man. < 1326214889 392074 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"View patterns an unicorns" sounded exciting. < 1326214892 675441 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then it was just uncons. < 1326214903 636125 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Hey, I want a type to represent a vector of length 7. < 1326214909 472124 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define unicorns uncons < 1326214910 464941 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Go wild < 1326214912 210389 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t uncons < 1326214913 163644 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `uncons' < 1326214913 641400 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But access to it has to be O(1), not O(7). < 1326214915 742819 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do I do? < 1326214919 821083 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :?hoogle uncons < 1326214920 296415 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.ByteString.Char8 uncons :: ByteString -> Maybe (Char, ByteString) < 1326214920 452924 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.ByteString.Lazy.Char8 uncons :: ByteString -> Maybe (Char, ByteString) < 1326214920 453123 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.ByteString uncons :: ByteString -> Maybe (Word8, ByteString) < 1326214930 805674 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: just divide O by 7 < 1326214936 636089 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :?hoogle snoc < 1326214936 792411 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: newtype Vec a = Vec (a,a,a,a,a,a,a) < 1326214936 953494 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.ByteString.Char8 snoc :: ByteString -> Char -> ByteString < 1326214937 109800 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.ByteString.Lazy.Char8 snoc :: ByteString -> Char -> ByteString < 1326214937 109983 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.ByteString snoc :: ByteString -> Word8 -> ByteString < 1326214942 114004 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: There's only one field, so it must be O(1). < 1326214958 999401 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :O(7) lol < 1326214959 793986 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also I want this to work for any value of 7. < 1326214972 62000 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: But if he wants O(1) access to all the elements, he needs 7 fields, so it's O(7) for the whole thing again. < 1326214980 865172 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Trade-offs. < 1326214984 398015 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant has a point. < 1326214993 150126 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can view-patterns be used to hide an equality check? < 1326215002 425182 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :As a pattern match < 1326215004 497337 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I was going to say something. < 1326215022 127059 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: The point is that writing the ByteString that represents the ASCII "POST" is awkward. < 1326215037 477807 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: But if he wants O(1) access to all the elements, he needs 7 fields, so it's O(7) for the whole thing again. <-- couldn't you work with several at once? < 1326215038 693549 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :f ((==blah) -> True) = whatever < 1326215051 483433 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: To make up for my long spiel about monads, I wrote a long spiel about applicatives. < 1326215052 912555 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: f blah | isAscii "POST" blah = ... < 1326215062 43008 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Most people don't have 7-core processors < 1326215079 866807 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, indeed, I have 8 core (including the hyper threading) < 1326215083 477579 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, I'm not going for decency here < 1326215087 326748 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Why don't you write a long spiel about jQuery? < 1326215089 429185 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going for abuse of view patterns < 1326215091 720350 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You're bourgeois. < 1326215096 478936 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, heh < 1326215106 618165 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: A 7-core processor is just an 8-core prosessor with one snuffed core. < 1326215119 153706 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: What is there to say? It is art; it is perfection. It's the alpha and the qoppa. < 1326215120 828164 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway, what about stuffing multiple values into a single SSE or AVX register < 1326215122 487365 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would my pattern work? < 1326215124 236771 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :jQuery is. < 1326215127 925290 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even into a normal machine word < 1326215139 117194 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You have to stuff all 7 of them < 1326215139 751598 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I thought it was a monad. < 1326215141 61002 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So O(7) again. < 1326215149 239150 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: It's an ArrowApply. < 1326215156 470695 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, how large is each? And once you stuffed them like that you could keep them like that surely < 1326215171 593179 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can load an entire SSE register with one instruction anyway < 1326215175 338003 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(same for writing it out) < 1326215198 22088 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't AMD Phenom X3 just those samples of Phenom X4 where one of the cores failed the tests? < 1326215204 337570 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe so < 1326215204 984337 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I enjoy how this web page has a commutative diagram on it: http://www.windley.com/archives/2009/01/jquery_monads_and_functional_programming.shtml < 1326215243 773126 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: The T^2 represents elements on the page. < 1326215249 287140 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: The \mu is jQuery. < 1326215253 282165 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I have like the best i7 you can get without intel calling it extreme or whatever they do to those supposed to be more stable for overclocking. < 1326215253 782464 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Ooh, more! Of a slightly different variety: http://weblogs.asp.net/bleroy/archive/2010/06/29/how-i-understood-monads-part-2-2-have-we-met-before.aspx < 1326215258 782721 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: T_\eta is the CSS selector you're using. < 1326215283 481507 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Oh yeah, C#4’s dynamic is a monad < 1326215283 639743 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks to the new dynamic keyword in C#4, it is now possible to ask the C# compiler to relax compile-time type checking and instead resolve the members of some objects at runtime. < 1326215283 796324 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here’s a somewhat trivial example: < 1326215283 796434 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dynamic foo = new { < 1326215283 796480 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : bar = "baz" < 1326215285 546655 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :}; < 1326215287 572142 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Console.WriteLine(foo.bar);" < 1326215289 515690 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very monadic! < 1326215302 516904 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The wrapping is magic and the binding is baked into the semantics of the language. < 1326215311 657206 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, if they still do that, I don't remember < 1326215316 323290 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, (it is a sandy bridge) < 1326215316 479693 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Also, I see no diagrams on that second one. < 1326215324 667575 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It's true. I meant "more suffering". < 1326215337 286905 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: IIRC the "Extreme Edition" chips do also have some bumped-up specs in addition to overclockability. < 1326215345 117190 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly < 1326215357 411220 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I'm glad that guy acknowledges Microsoft are evil. < 1326215359 318035 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, mine is a normal edition sandy bridge i7 at 3.4 GHz < 1326215365 734757 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :In his blog title. < 1326215369 225196 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, which is pretty extreme anyway < 1326215373 348290 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Along with an evil-looking pumpkin. < 1326215376 682437 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think he has Microsoft issues. < 1326215389 150760 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I think for Sandy Bridge they just went with a "K" or "X" suffix in the model number for the "extreme" ones. < 1326215398 837047 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ah possibly < 1326215415 921069 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Heyy, cheater isn't here, I can complain about him wasting space in #haskell with impunity! Well, relative impunity. < 1326215442 355441 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just wait until #-blah hears that quote! < 1326215455 600738 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I believe one of the labs at university have those. < 1326215455 778754 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Don't. < 1326215468 336154 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Don't worry, I'm leaving anyway. < 1326215468 926190 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it also have pretty old nvidia quadro cards for some reasons. < 1326215471 216776 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :reason* < 1326215480 535928 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Do you remember when cheater tried to get me banned from #haskell because I pointed him to LYAH? < 1326215486 223437 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1326215488 715027 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was fun. < 1326215511 109430 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : cheater, he took an arrow in the knee < 1326215511 303293 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : heh. < 1326215518 896733 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Is there a cure for crying. < 1326215535 524864 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Apparently the i7-2600K in fact only differs from the i7-2600 in that it has some unlocked overclocking settings; plus it *doesn't* do some things. (TXT, the trusted execution thing; VT-d, the IO virtualization thing; and vPro, the remote management thing.) < 1326215544 721402 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes: Conveniently, the cure is crying. < 1326215549 57143 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anti-onion. < 1326215561 700787 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Sounds explosive. < 1326215576 482828 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Anyway, they seem to have gotten a Core i7-3930K/-3960X six-physical-cores models out now, too. < 1326215577 592904 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, with tears. < 1326215579 616918 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only good arrow to the knee joke I seen so far was from a LP of skyrim where some NPC placement bugged out and, as the player said: "took a stair to the knee" < 1326215589 176313 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Anti-onion Router, also known as "tar". < 1326215597 650751 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, heh < 1326215600 785157 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you know /bin/tar sends everything you do to the NSA immediately? < 1326215606 264507 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only GNU tar. < 1326215609 568611 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I'm pretty sure those weren't around when I bought mine < 1326215637 714222 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, why not VT-d? < 1326215641 625063 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, that makes no sense < 1326215642 291136 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1326215666 861469 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I believe the one I have does VT-d but my mobo doesn't or something like that < 1326215907 889433 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Probably they've figured out there's not much overlap between overclockers and people who need "enterprise" features. Though I've never quite figured out the "let's disable features" decisions. < 1326215988 449273 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like the Pokemon versions. < 1326215993 422 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gotta buy them both to have all the feechurez. < 1326216003 136062 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1326216141 948538 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I wonder if there are extreme edition xenons? < 1326216147 383746 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably not < 1326216158 881783 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I would quite like to use VT-d < 1326216201 638175 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly < 1326216206 838663 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure what the point would be < 1326216232 327948 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be nice if you could use this for the GPU or such to do fast 3D in qemu < 1326216251 259553 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds unlikely to work though < 1326216264 473745 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and would not work at all with windowed mode < 1326216401 52025 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, what do IBM actually /do/ these days? < 1326216415 548323 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't actually think of anything I associate with them. < 1326216416 23411 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chips < 1326216429 481639 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not any chips I've heard of, at least. < 1326216464 524120 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :They do the CPU for Wii's < 1326216500 691907 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And XBox 360's < 1326216519 418956 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and main frames < 1326216525 667769 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Main frames. < 1326216528 496018 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1326216539 829051 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :They co-designed the PS3 CPU < 1326216573 139524 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, main frames. < 1326216590 211373 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, yes. They are still made < 1326216621 198312 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Main... frames. < 1326216633 917546 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, as opposed to minicomputers < 1326216656 795467 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Mainframes, CPUs. < 1326216665 253619 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Supercomputers. < 1326216670 437008 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yes, that too < 1326216670 987399 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bad software. < 1326216680 235653 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Research. < 1326216705 646336 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :AIs on quiz shows < 1326216710 638219 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :IBM, a bad software company. < 1326216713 63905 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, snap you just beat me to that < 1326216725 650278 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Makers of the finest bad software. < 1326216753 814765 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Virtually all console gaming systems of the latest generation use microprocessors developed by IBM. The Xbox 360 contains a PowerPC tri-core processor, which was designed and produced by IBM in less than 24 months.[56] Sony's PlayStation 3 features the Cell BE microprocessor designed jointly by IBM, Toshiba, and Sony." < 1326216755 44481 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh < 1326216758 114947 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :virtually all? < 1326216761 217072 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 out of 3? < 1326216772 744674 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Wii uses an IBM chip too. < 1326216782 998858 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, says so much further down < 1326216787 542101 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so all then < 1326216792 415695 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not just virtually all < 1326216838 906391 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Broadway is the codename of the 32-bit Central Processing Unit (CPU) used in Nintendo's Wii video game console. It was designed by IBM, and is currently being produced using a 90 nm SOI process." <-- 90 nm. Wow that is quite a way behind PC CPUs < 1326216892 865191 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd almost think the technology was six years old or something. < 1326216911 818326 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, hm weren't Intel at like 60 nm around then? < 1326216916 241397 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/PC CPUs/x86/ < 1326216919 582875 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well yes < 1326216925 86777 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Intel and AMD x86, even. < 1326216930 81873 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1326216931 752081 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The 90 nm process refers to the level of CMOS process technology that was reached in the 2002–2003 timeframe, by most leading semiconductor companies, like Intel, AMD, Infineon, Texas Instruments, IBM, and TSMC." < 1326216935 866919 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Game Cube used IBM chips < 1326216945 586973 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :65 nm — 2006 < 1326216949 919544 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, Intel and AMD stands for virtually all consumer x86 CPUs used in desktops and laptops though < 1326216953 773175 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-6 = 2005. < 1326216955 240571 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So not really. < 1326216965 733851 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what year is it? < 1326216969 358721 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm okay < 1326216982 377482 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nevermind < 1326216990 614195 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, 2012? < 1326216997 973736 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My god. < 1326217000 332590 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl < 1326217031 643730 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jan 2012. < 1326217044 75039 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not not-2011 for a while now. < 1326217046 694160 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Wii was released in late 2006, but since they obviously couldn't use state-of-the art chips at the time of release, I think it's fair to say the underlying technology is all early- to mid-2006 at the latest. < 1326217079 950732 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nintendo are really impressively durable with their platforms. < 1326217092 883272 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least compared to today's cycles. < 1326217118 608509 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, come on, how old is the PS3? And the xbox 360? < 1326217136 851498 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know the first thing about either? < 1326217144 694210 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, that they are better than wii? < 1326217150 266720 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1326217164 386390 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: because they have a better CPU, right? < 1326217165 908571 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are about ten different models of each, which subdivide into about three or four generations of hardware. < 1326217183 664483 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, better hardware at least, not sure if it is the CPU or the GPU (if they even have separate GPUs?) < 1326217199 680556 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, hm. Right. < 1326217215 904836 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: And Sony aren't exactly announcing the next generation of the PlayStation to be PS3+0.5, like Nintendo have with the Wii U. < 1326217244 694923 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah yes, that reminds me. < 1326217260 939559 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to correct the genetive of "nemo" from "nullius" to "neminis" < 1326217278 865757 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I have no comment. < 1326217325 748445 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe the PS4 and whatever the next xbox will be called are supposed to be showed at some expo later this year. Not sure if that is confirmed or just rumors. < 1326217329 443650 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, surely even /you/ understand budgeting. < 1326217330 699183 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :rumours* < 1326217344 657101 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, yes? What about it? < 1326217359 975642 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, you mean the separate GPU thingy? < 1326217423 779500 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bye < 1326217427 63560 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: Goodbye < 1326217433 283572 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I need to leave as well. Cya. < 1326217445 41139 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notes that according to WP a low-end XBox is actually cheaper than a Wii at launch price. < 1326217493 280278 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Those were introduced later, though. < 1326217505 937162 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably due to market pressures the Wii placed upon consoles. < 1326217534 294646 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And indeed a Wii is cheaper at current prices. < 1326217572 31786 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: That's not surprising; at the end of its cycle Nintendo hardware can be bought for about 3 pennies and a piece of fluff. < 1326217599 76346 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I presume you have done this regularly. < 1326217607 810625 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You know not the true face of England. < 1326217627 372207 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which makes it all the more amazing that you haven't played any SSB games despite them being the best. < 1326217805 252678 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Also the true face of England. < 1326217814 617895 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't even own a Wii. < 1326217827 477954 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tut tut tut? < 1326217830 230858 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pirate one. < 1326217847 980711 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1326217879 803653 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: The solution is clear: a Hexham-Helsinki SSB battle???? For friendship diplomacy. I will supply the friendship, < 1326217902 836746 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. < 1326217905 142362 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which SSB. < 1326217945 226765 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: All... of them... simultaneously? < 1326217951 256483 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Controlled by the same controller. < 1326217960 34621 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Polyglot gaming. < 1326217971 226092 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think you can use an N64 controller with a Wii but wait < 1326217983 306703 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: There's a "classic" controller for the Wii < 1326217986 797398 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just a matter of software. < 1326217996 716588 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know this. < 1326218003 640915 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :EXCUSE ME IM WII EXPERT < 1326218011 549240 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Oh my god polyglot gaming of two unrelated games would be the most amazing thing ever. < 1326218013 610409 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a new life goal. < 1326218109 410402 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, unrelated games hasn't been done as far as I'm aware < 1326218132 187899 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: What has been done by implication? < 1326218137 578830 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some set of Mega Mans, Mega Man Xs, Final Fantasies, and Marios has been done, at least < 1326218143 980276 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Neat < 1326218144 836348 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Those are the ones I recall having seen) < 1326218157 204323 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :And this is TAS, not sure if that counts < 1326218164 149997 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :In realtime? < 1326218165 817529 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1326218169 42652 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that makes it "easier". :p < 1326218207 436469 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Evidently TASVideos has a category for it: http://tasvideos.org/Movies-C2020Y.html < 1326218214 665656 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :And there's no others than the ones I remembered < 1326218411 272935 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remembered the Mega Man and the Mario ones, but not that Final Fantasy set. < 1326218469 44504 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't some dude play Mega Man X and X2 in realtime? < 1326218489 659106 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe I'm just recalling that TAS thing. < 1326218503 582120 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't recall any non-TAS. < 1326218546 561045 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't find one, so maybe it was just the TAS. < 1326218558 728738 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, there was that "Mario 64 with feet", you never know what people do. < 1326218616 157050 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: that TAS has been improved since < 1326218622 387741 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :X1, X2, X3 300% < 1326218635 442144 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there have been other multigame runs; most are worse than the original, that one's better though < 1326218660 854139 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I can see that. I probably just saw the X1/X2 one. < 1326218667 682478 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also "300%" sounds silly. < 1326218675 772181 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, 100% * 3 < 1326218752 504469 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: you must hate cpu metres < 1326218762 2769 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :~GOODE NIGHTE FRENS~ < 1326218824 761609 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not all CPU metres use 100% = one CPU < 1326218859 983958 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or whatever the unit should be called, 100% = one relatively traditional single-threaded core < 1326219018 849995 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1326220901 41988 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aw, "List of lists" just goes to Portal:Contents/Lists. I was hoping it would be called that. < 1326220926 173621 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least there's the "List of lists of lists". < 1326221530 61089 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1326221981 537287 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326221992 533938 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Max SendQ exceeded < 1326222050 590271 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326222081 989742 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : I don't think you can use an N64 controller with a Wii but wait <-- you could rig up some levers or such to control several physical controllers at once? < 1326222086 552614 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or one in each hand? < 1326222280 87899 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I was wondering if Nintendo offered the original Super Smash Bros. on their internet service. < 1326222311 542469 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aha, it is. < 1326222338 571434 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you could play all three SSB games at once on a Wii, at least. < 1326222373 56701 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes, indeed, you can use a GameCube controller for all three. < 1326222419 210235 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I was suggested an alternative solution < 1326222440 135491 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is an inferior solution. < 1326222448 24594 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, well yes < 1326222476 177833 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326222755 815224 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can emulate it of course < 1326222985 462180 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326223241 78565 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1326223265 730000 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1326223421 421668 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1326223469 124390 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no TOPIC #esoteric :The Return of the JIT | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1326224125 955771 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org TOPIC #esoteric :The Return of the JITchards | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1326224152 267174 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's a JITchard < 1326224172 357839 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it a richard with a speech impediment < 1326224199 933043 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :JITchards < 1326224209 532820 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the JIT I wrote for IOCCC < 1326224213 700907 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1326224257 730141 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How did that go? < 1326224286 684186 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :JITchards, by Jegoj < 1326224403 883313 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t op < 1326224404 740010 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall o n. (Newtype n o) => (o -> n) -> n -> o < 1326224421 199144 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t rop < 1326224422 32996 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `rop' < 1326224424 810165 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t opr < 1326224425 876964 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `opr' < 1326224446 422704 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :op? < 1326224464 118470 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle op < 1326224464 753955 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :System.IO openBinaryFile :: FilePath -> IOMode -> IO Handle < 1326224464 910370 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :GHC.IO.Handle.FD openBinaryFile :: FilePath -> IOMode -> IO Handle < 1326224464 910564 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :System.IO openBinaryTempFile :: FilePath -> String -> IO (FilePath, Handle) < 1326224494 446514 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like that from simplereflect < 1326224510 586818 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :which hoogle doesn't cover afaik < 1326224691 850043 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's op, apparently < 1326224870 148298 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t Debug.SimpleReflect.op < 1326224871 263752 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Couldn't find qualified module. < 1326224877 267850 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t fun < 1326224878 333601 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (SimpleReflect.FromExpr a) => String -> a < 1326224882 200144 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: SLEEP, GLORIOUS SLEEP < 1326224886 368540 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t SimpleReflect.op < 1326224887 361548 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `SimpleReflect.op' < 1326224914 380031 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1326224953 869533 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of lambdabot's great mysteries: how to qualify a given module identifier, if it's even possible. < 1326224957 849025 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t expr < 1326224958 801774 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Expr -> Expr < 1326224978 527387 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t f < 1326224979 480633 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (SimpleReflect.FromExpr a) => a < 1326225016 157261 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::k (SimpleReflect.FromExpr a) => a < 1326225017 109258 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: type constructor or class `SimpleReflect.FromExpr' < 1326225024 367884 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::k (FromExpr a) => a < 1326225025 412002 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: type constructor or class `FromExpr' < 1326225064 663509 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t f == "a" < 1326225065 614858 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (SimpleReflect.FromExpr [Char]) < 1326225065 771325 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use of `f' at :1:0 < 1326225065 771522 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Possible fix: < 1326225180 632694 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah it's lambdabot's show package, not all simplereflect. < 1326225864 691933 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-148-15-115.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326225928 378681 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-86-84.as13285.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1326225936 345593 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326226109 643607 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-148-15-115.as13285.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1326226482 578093 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-155-225.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1326226485 775996 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-218-197.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326227022 702886 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1326227127 903075 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh my god why are ice cream waffles so good. < 1326227158 336751 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not that ice cream waffles are so good, it's that everything else is so bad. < 1326227180 530081 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ice cream waffles are the clue left to us by God, indicating that things are so much worse than they could be. < 1326227215 700319 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1326227223 600855 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no I'm pretty sure ice cream waffles are just really good. < 1326227230 942374 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :like... it's like having a waffle cone < 1326227239 791897 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but warm and more like an actual waffle < 1326227241 159518 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it is < 1326227243 988809 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : aside from giving you a nice Ord instance. :P <-- Ord instances are supposed to be _total_ orders (ignoring bottom/nontermination) < 1326227250 100239 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ah okay. < 1326227264 878772 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :who makes a bottom/nontermination Ord instance < 1326227283 752259 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swats monqy -----### < 1326227289 587546 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lists? < 1326227297 141542 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well of course. < 1326227298 889467 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: I wouldn't know. I've nevre had an ice cream waffle. < 1326227312 447732 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :[1..] <= [1..] has no chance of terminating. < 1326227318 362257 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: if you instead elect to use _|_ to mean false < 1326227320 338745 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::'( < 1326227321 73139 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and True to mean True < 1326227340 431720 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you can define _|_ to not equal anything. < 1326227342 152344 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::> < 1326227350 331555 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::'( :'( :'( < 1326227539 880431 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dafuq is an ice cream waffle? < 1326227563 53175 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you're just talking about waffles with ice cream. < 1326227644 465413 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am < 1326227645 935035 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :like < 1326227648 46980 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :waffles < 1326227649 106972 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :then < 1326227651 956430 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :put ice cream on them. < 1326227654 287892 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ice cream waffle < 1326227662 836867 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, can't a partial order be said to be a total order ignoring bottom? < 1326227668 109426 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I guess circular stuff < 1326227706 398276 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Logically an ice cream waffle should be a waffle made of ice cream < 1326227707 620846 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: no, you can have x <= y and y <= x both being False < 1326227709 935014 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except that that is nonsense. < 1326227712 529480 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no bottom involved < 1326227768 127620 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :partial orders have no circularity, they still have transitivity. < 1326228073 289726 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1326228269 948991 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-218-197.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1326228272 837549 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-236-8.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326228595 229686 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-144-211.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326228602 820341 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-236-8.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1326230086 518747 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326230136 470513 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :How have I not watched all the French and Saunders clips on YouTube by now. < 1326230443 742204 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-214-152.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326230491 460055 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-144-211.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1326231173 781771 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1326232104 80700 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :" Sgeo: no, you can have x <= y and y <= x both being False" this is weird. < 1326232153 458768 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :never heard of a partial order? < 1326232187 493479 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not before today < 1326232202 883172 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :im on the wiki page now < 1326232209 470964 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326232224 873679 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Partial ordering is the best kinds of ordering. < 1326232233 535477 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Other than well-ordering. < 1326232237 458151 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And a semilattice. < 1326232252 126564 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1326232293 336489 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm rather partial to it myself < 1326232383 624931 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: a good example is set inclusion. neither of {1,2} and {1,3} is contained in the other. < 1326232398 383817 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, what about pizza ordering? < 1326232413 649702 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: That's just lazy. < 1326232432 410070 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Go to the pizzeria yourself if you want pizza so much. < 1326232438 162310 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cowabunga < 1326232491 228426 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :american adaptions of italian food described by anthropomorphic turtles using surfer terminology < 1326232500 367418 :Zuu!zuu@unaffiliated/zuu QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1326232528 488848 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a japanese animated adaption of an american comic < 1326232562 226009 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the world truly is beautiful < 1326232608 380613 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@google is the world beautiful < 1326232609 452304 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.theworldisbeautiful.com/ < 1326232609 608622 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Title: the world is beautiful < 1326232620 61574 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hotels and restaurants that match your preferences:Luxurious and Relaxing Hotels in Buenos Aires < 1326232632 81591 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Truly. < 1326232693 431556 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goodnight < 1326232695 613647 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Quit: Goodbye < 1326233004 435624 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have pondered about the mysteries of order before < 1326233030 768842 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mysteries? < 1326233033 111183 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but without breaking any ground < 1326233052 911741 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh.. now i suppose i have to try to remember < 1326233222 843320 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I was a kid, I used to ponder stuff about infinities and alternate number lines and numbers defined such that its absolute value < 0 < 1326233333 219760 :Patashu!Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1326233395 835362 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1326233570 454319 :Zuu!zuu@77.215.149.86 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326233570 955128 :Zuu!zuu@77.215.149.86 QUIT :Changing host < 1326233571 111353 :Zuu!zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric < 1326233826 29989 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION → sleep < 1326233827 180394 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1326235080 900052 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326235132 243488 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`searchlog itidus list < 1326235174 120363 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1326235218 602722 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-225-142.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326235224 566039 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-214-152.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1326235610 825700 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :about order, i recall once not so long ago trying to figure out something wrong with my conception of lists.. but i cant remember exactly what my thought was < 1326235651 877191 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :something about the [first] [??] [??] [last] < 1326235799 72482 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that doesn't look obviously wrong so far :P < 1326235900 701023 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src first < 1326235901 294945 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source not found. Sorry about this, I know it's a bit silly. < 1326235908 983784 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Arrow method < 1326235911 521786 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src Arrow < 1326235912 155225 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :class Arrow a where < 1326235912 311593 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arr, pure :: (b -> c) -> a b c < 1326235912 311799 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : (>>>) :: a b c -> a c d -> a b d < 1326235912 311842 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : first :: a b c -> a (b,d) (c,d) < 1326235912 311885 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : second :: a b c -> a (d,b) (d,c) < 1326235913 986073 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : (***) :: a b c -> a b' c' -> a (b,b') (c,c') < 1326235916 52174 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : (&&&) :: a b c -> a b c' -> a b (c,c') < 1326235928 846774 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src first (->) < 1326235929 321395 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source not found. BOB says: You seem to have forgotten your passwd, enter another! < 1326235935 64953 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src (->) first < 1326235935 381282 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :first f = f *** id < 1326235941 712302 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it not defined in terms of -- ah yes < 1326235943 113442 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src (->) (***) < 1326235943 589685 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(f *** g) ~(x,y) = (f x, g y) < 1326235971 431580 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1326235996 841681 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*** is like two processes in parallel. < 1326236049 413710 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically it produces a function on the product of the two argument types of its operand functions. < 1326236053 951691 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well parallel dataflow. i'm sure the Kleiski instance does one of them first. < 1326236056 641683 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1326236064 174641 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src Kleiski (***) < 1326236064 650199 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source not found. Just try something else. < 1326236069 843417 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't mean "process" in any kind of concurrent sense. < 1326236082 302898 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1326236085 871673 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src Kleisli (***) < 1326236086 350360 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source not found. And you call yourself a Rocket Scientist! < 1326236093 919962 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t Kleisli < 1326236094 794768 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a (m :: * -> *) b. (a -> m b) -> Kleisli m a b < 1326236107 3907 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src (,) (&&&) < 1326236107 521652 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source not found. < 1326236115 213547 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :halp < 1326236125 185049 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know that (,) is an Arrow < 1326236135 383756 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src (->) (&&&) < 1326236135 848054 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source not found. I've seen penguins that can type better than that. < 1326236136 958073 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first argument has the wrong variance < 1326236139 60292 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1326236155 26095 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src (&&&) < 1326236155 524462 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :f &&& g = arr (\b -> (b,b)) >>> f *** g < 1326236169 355698 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1326236177 965959 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it takes a single flow of data and splits it in two. < 1326236184 883840 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t arr < 1326236186 93969 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall b c (a :: * -> * -> *). (Arrow a) => (b -> c) -> a b c < 1326236197 240570 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (f &&& g) x :: Expr < 1326236198 420776 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `SimpleReflect.Expr' < 1326236198 420968 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred ... < 1326236202 146498 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1326236212 815908 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (f &&& g) x :: (Expr, Expr) < 1326236213 642872 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : (f x,g x) < 1326236218 45022 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1326236239 952405 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (f *** g) (x,y) :: (Expr, Expr) < 1326236240 915494 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : (f x,g y) < 1326236257 275334 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1326236262 466871 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure I get what arr is doing though < 1326236278 456611 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er well I know what it's doing in that case < 1326236279 945575 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :just not in general < 1326236299 387928 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :turns a function into an arrow < 1326236303 945927 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it like... ah okay < 1326236320 576163 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes I see that based on the type. < 1326236354 27846 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :arr (join (,)) >>> f *** g < 1326236436 257507 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :some have complained that arr is used too much in the Arrow definitions < 1326236454 731118 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes it hard to generalize to arrow-like things that _don't_ embed all functions. < 1326236499 60896 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or arrow-like things where you want to be able to analyze the flow at runtime without running into opaque functions all the time < 1326236611 843303 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, you could imagine using arrow notation to build a circuit of logical gates < 1326238283 393045 :cheater!~cheater@dslb-084-057-009-068.pools.arcor-ip.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326238449 898249 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.17/2009122204] < 1326240352 77963 :TeruFSX_!~quassel@71-210-150-147.mpls.qwest.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1326243592 195988 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION considers taking a break from this channel < 1326243617 226778 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds like a good idea. < 1326243621 859501 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should do that. < 1326244057 544117 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the rumors of the great spam reduction seem a little premature < 1326245425 349537 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-153-24.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326245430 1631 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-225-142.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1326245449 536122 :cswords!~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326246233 930480 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1326247414 831375 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Markov_random_field < 1326247422 842847 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how good this would be for anti-latency prediction stuff. < 1326248996 548138 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1326252285 714080 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326252630 284108 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-153-24.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1326252638 928331 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-137.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326253815 283556 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-195-6.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326253837 394537 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-137.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1326254774 18758 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1326255969 553826 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-219-61.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326255974 713952 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-195-6.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1326257363 452834 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zombie 6.001 started today: http://web.mit.edu/alexmv/6.S184/ < 1326257742 372353 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-219-61.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1326257756 423751 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-214-234.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326258297 780849 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :whats the most exotic machine architecture people know about? < 1326258303 182805 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :exotic but not absurd < 1326258333 819752 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-214-234.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Z3, by Konrad Zuse? < 1326258358 383870 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ill check it out :p < 1326258362 152092 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :whats so exotic about it? < 1326258400 440799 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :old < 1326258413 447484 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur, there are some architectures where the only instruction is "mov" < 1326258413 643240 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-214-234.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically the first modern computer. Also, TC without a conditional branch operator. < 1326258422 139904 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything, even arithmetic, is memory-mapped < 1326258435 355325 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :to add numbers, you mov them to the ALU and then mov out of the "addition result" address < 1326258448 1659 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That seems like it's essentially just a different way to encode instructions. < 1326258450 145929 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: thats kind of nice when you think about it < 1326258457 38677 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-214-234.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, 22 bit words. < 1326258470 766789 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly interesting when you can remap memory yourself, I suppose. < 1326258480 535371 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, or move directly between any two functional units < 1326258499 435433 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, that's true. < 1326258581 694341 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know much about this < 1326259297 749720 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :The ruskies built base-3 computers < 1326259310 183601 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably balanced ternary < 1326260476 810855 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :xkcd is funny today < 1326261070 342012 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-198-122.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326261100 472940 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-214-234.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1326263052 66701 :Slereah!~butt@ANantes-259-1-163-147.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1326263131 672715 :_Slereah!~butt@ANantes-259-1-159-48.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1326263158 159685 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really < 1326264077 459404 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-240-14.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326264078 93346 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-198-122.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1326264689 891830 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: SLEEP, GLORIOUS SLEEP < 1326265496 906851 :cswords!~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1326266092 207088 :cswords!~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326266365 141734 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1326266405 546946 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are you talking about? Haskell predates Lisp, and Lisp predates APL. In fact, Haskell was made just two years after assemblers were invented. – trinithis 9 hours ago < 1326266413 433792 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't tell whether they're joking or not... < 1326266435 297842 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1326266806 282771 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1326266820 463450 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:55:25: i don't know that (,) is an Arrow < 1326266825 734057 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :arr :: (a -> b) -> (a,b) < 1326266873 766535 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(diff) (hist) . . Language list‎; 19:43 . . (+125) . . 149.255.39.18 (Talk) (Is there a way use some sort of third party forum moderation to cut through this problem? Then you could go on in whatever way you are comfortable, your forums could coninue to buzz and anyone that's) < 1326266881 440259 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/She_Gives_Me_Money_When_Im_In_Need_Lyrics < 1326266894 319267 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Contents [hide] < 1326266894 477929 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 She Gives Me Money When Im In Need Lyrics < 1326266894 634307 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :1.1 She Gives Me Money When Im In Need Lyrics < 1326266894 634491 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :1.1.1 it u take my money when I am in need of Yes, her friend 'knows triflin' Oh really, a digger of gold 'way over time to dig me [Chorus:] (Give me the money.) Lil Wayne, Lil Wayne discography. < 1326266900 125902 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :1.1.1.1 External links < 1326266920 424118 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:59:52: * kallisti considers taking a break from this channel < 1326266925 258078 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: sorry i'll tone down my cool < 1326266959 223948 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Why don't you ever give me money when I'm in need? < 1326266959 540874 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: mr president, when the commission adds up the income side of agenda 2000. < 1326266976 683273 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Yeah, yeah, it's always one excuse or another. < 1326266976 999954 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: mr president, commissioner, i believe that this is just a quote from a turkish newspaper, not a single phrase in the regulation. < 1326267055 556346 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326267107 81263 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: fungot's way over time to dig you. < 1326267109 5827 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: first of all, ladies and gentlemen, the european council has since taken place. furthermore, structural and cohesion policies? we take it for granted that there would be no problem in accepting it. even fnord in montenegro does not put them at a disadvantage because many european union states. i met with professionals from the maritime situation of the southeast of the country of origin' principle, this is only a singl < 1326267328 891552 :roper!~rdrp@46.222.233.81 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326267375 532656 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you're now compelled to invent an esolang named She Gives Me Money When Im In Need Lyrics < 1326267403 256468 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I haven't even made My Name Is Johny, What The F**K? yet :( < 1326269304 447785 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Why are there so many typeclasses, wouldn't it make sense to have "one universal" type class? < 1326269329 750340 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you would appreciate the suggestion in your design of @. < 1326269345 567763 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Oleg did that, didn't he? < 1326269351 978162 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was one single MPTC with a single member or something. < 1326269358 533059 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That you could implement any typeclass with. < 1326269366 657329 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't imagine that Cody_ and Oleg were thinking of the same thing. < 1326269377 340833 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I vaguely remember something along those lines, I think. < 1326269420 23380 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Cody_ is the name Oleg uses on IRC. < 1326269498 794563 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : Is there a website that displays the type classes? Such as Eq, Num, Ord. < 1326269557 532258 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net NICK :MSleep < 1326269560 582834 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :learnyouatypeclass.com < 1326269594 931542 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even ddarius snapped at him a few days ago. < 1326269601 425909 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : Cody_: I expect a five year old who's had access to a computer to be able to answer these questions. < 1326269634 396193 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remember the "friendlist channel on Freenode" award that members of #haskell like to award #haskell? < 1326269689 362929 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Has Cody_ read a Haskell tutorial? < 1326269706 596818 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :learn you a google for great good < 1326269706 754799 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume so. < 1326269718 774155 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Really? All the way through? < 1326269731 967912 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, oh. < 1326269733 711130 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know. < 1326269742 859544 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: You should ask them! < 1326269752 219813 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I shouldn't! < 1326269764 832592 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :We had a discussion in /msg about how to ask questions. < 1326269787 601778 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I hear esr wrote an essay on that! < 1326269822 176871 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :When given an answer to that "why are there so many typeclasses": (Cody_) Axman6: I thought typeclasses were extra fluff. < 1326269838 221653 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :He has a point. < 1326269844 422845 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :class Fluff a where fluff :: a < 1326269873 882792 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :class Fluff f => ExtraFluff f where extraFluff :: a < 1326269876 573736 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Cody_ understands why we need typeclasses < 1326269878 990015 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Enlightenment. < 1326269893 204834 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1326269904 397153 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would be ranting so hard right now < 1326269912 235263 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: 20:45:24 so GHCI is mainly a compiler and runtime environment, the prompt is intended for controlling those processes and isn't an interpreter, or at least not an interpreter than can handle all of Haskell < 1326269922 296434 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: This guy understands why you can't say "a = b" in GHCi. < 1326269997 526905 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Misread as " i would be ranting if i weren't so hard right now". Don't know how that happened. < 1326270009 728965 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speaking of asking questions, I've been finding myself typing out answers to questions in #haskell and realising "I'm putting N times as much effort into answering this question as you put into asking it. If you'd put M times as much effort into clarifying what you actually mean, I wouldn't have to do this. N > M. Why am I doing this?" < 1326270021 245741 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Never mind that multiplication doesn't quite work that way. < 1326270071 698359 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, X_X < 1326270159 119234 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION awards the friendliest channel on freenode award to #esoteric. < 1326270166 708660 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :We couldn't have done it without fizzie's help. < 1326270174 433086 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION awards the friendliest person on Freenode award to shachaf. < 1326270188 557737 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's "freenode". < 1326270219 907912 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll second shachaf's nomination < 1326270229 238403 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf is friendlier than me because he hasn't quit #haskell yet < 1326270258 389238 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Surely if that's the metric, Cale has to win it a few billion times over. < 1326270262 349442 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The first result on http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=NORWAYNORWAYNORWAY&q=freenode seems to disagree. < 1326270277 111014 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sourceid=NORWAYNORWAYNORWAY < 1326270278 268337 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I think I'll step down in favour of Cale. < 1326270280 92082 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's spelled wrong in Norway. < 1326270293 234082 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Anyway, "Freenode" isn't the title of that webpage. < 1326270297 635144 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.google.com/search?targetid=NORWAYNORWAYNORWAY&q=freenode < 1326270298 903479 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's what Google thinks the site is called. < 1326270301 321155 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I know. < 1326270305 82780 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1326270305 240748 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : About the Network < 1326270305 396935 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1326270305 882756 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you calling Google wrong? < 1326270324 525104 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : title="freenode, a service of Peer-Directed Projects Center" < 1326270324 685817 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You've reached freenode, a service of Peer-Directed Projects Center (PDPC). freenode provides discussion facilities for the Free and Open Source Software communities, for not-for-profit organizations and for related communities and organizations.What is fST or freenode Standard Time? It's our official time zone. Well, sort of. We're not entirely serious. :) freenode Standard Time is UTC. < 1326270332 825046 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION can't find a single official reference with the capital F. < 1326270338 335284 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No; it's "You've reached freenode, ..." < 1326270338 652072 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Wow, the people who run Freenode can't spell. < 1326270342 821420 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :XChat calls it "FreeNode", which is just awful. < 1326270342 980142 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You need to bold it everywhere. < 1326270349 304324 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: It's also greyish blue. < 1326270353 68607 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That, too. < 1326270357 578243 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: And serif. < 1326270385 751754 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i spent my winter on the edge of a nervous breakdown while living in norway < 1326270388 671801 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Speaking of asking questions, I've been finding myself typing out answers to questions in #haskell and realising "I'm putting N times as much effort into answering this question as you put into asking it. If you'd put M times as much effort into clarifying what you actually mean, I wouldn't have to do this. N > M. Why am I doing this?" < 1326270399 638966 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://nhandler.wordpress.com/2010/02/24/it-is-freenode/ < 1326270405 572977 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, asking for clarification just isn't the #haskell way < 1326270411 874883 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: This is why you need rep to motivate you! < 1326270413 776039 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should make a wild guess about the intent of the question asker < 1326270420 322440 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then write a treatise on that subject < 1326270437 993040 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :howd o i make web with haskell in osx/linux/wine < 1326270441 160994 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :help < 1326270445 439494 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do web????? < 1326270450 11071 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do i shot web < 1326270451 437878 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i;m vc < 1326270454 345066 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :big startup moneys < 1326270456 41901 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :web in haskel < 1326270462 355635 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Make sure to leave your treatise in IRC logs rather than writing it up on the wiki or something, though, right? < 1326270501 758486 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1326270517 116793 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey guys! I don't like #haskell! Let's talk about that! < 1326270521 738741 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's a polite way of saying "we don't like your kind here"? < 1326270537 196366 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: "Your support contract has expired." < 1326270539 690677 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where "your kind" is often a euphemism for "you". And "we" is a euphemism for "I". < 1326270546 461798 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't euphemize < 1326270552 718131 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :use "you" and "I", seriously < 1326270554 658596 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Please sign up for a paid support plan if you wish to continue your support contract." < 1326270560 853368 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I'm working on a blog post about what annoys me about #haskell < 1326270574 148045 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: That sounds really productive. < 1326270575 573976 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do actually like a lot of things about #haskell and wish I could be less annoyed so I could continue participating < 1326270597 847481 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably the way for me to be less annoyed is mostly me changing not #haskell changing < 1326270607 502378 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, sarcasm? < 1326270617 473993 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Maybe! < 1326270624 460284 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's more productive than bitching here where ~nobody will see < 1326270636 374209 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't think writing blog posts about #haskell will change #haskell, but who knows. < 1326270669 611797 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd like at least one cite-able data point against "#haskell is wonderful and friendly and perfect" < 1326270679 671150 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't really expect it to change < 1326270687 522087 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what else should i do < 1326270701 164666 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's as much a reminder to me about the behaviors i should avoid < 1326270709 982590 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :as an attempt to change others < 1326270721 545057 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i complain about something publicly then i'm less likely to do it, for fear of being called a hypocrite < 1326270740 188784 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I really, honestly, truly haven't seen anyone praise #haskell like that in years beyond saying "you should come to #haskell, we're really friendly!" on other media as an invitation. < 1326270762 581579 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have. < 1326270765 473443 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1326270768 9572 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i'm just out of date < 1326270790 184786 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION might just block it out. < 1326270803 752220 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I've avoided #haskell for a while now. < 1326270809 800581 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do you avoid? < 1326270849 461098 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it sucks? < 1326270861 167730 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, nobody ever answers my questions :P < 1326270864 190717 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :can u be more specific < 1326270877 209911 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously, I'd like to understand the problem < 1326270882 209459 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That's because you never ask "how do i typeclass". < 1326270895 241225 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i can write about it, and so i can do better personally if/when I return < 1326270995 461173 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Well, pretty much everything said in here: the amount of noise from trivial questions and the rubbish they spawn is immense, the channel in general is just way too high-volume a lot of the time, and people only answer low-hanging fruit, so problems that actually require decent knowledge of the APIs/thinking are ignored (double especially if they're related to code design)... so it just holds very little interest for me, as there's nothing in < 1326270995 619644 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :teresting to answer, nothing interesting to talk about, and no way to get decent help for non-trivial problems. < 1326271029 64666 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"the rubbish" being conflicting explanations, arguing about how to explain things, etc? < 1326271037 854614 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :#haskell-in-depth? < 1326271043 203402 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody ever talks there ever < 1326271059 773422 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What kmc said :P < 1326271064 721581 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm still in that channel and I'd be glad if it got some good traffic < 1326271069 33044 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure a single question was ever asked in #haskell-in-depth. < 1326271084 607459 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Yes; also the jokes that inevitably follow e.g. anyone asking about monads are getting very old. < 1326271102 334733 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically i'd be happy if it was 20% the size of #haskell instead of 5% < 1326271120 306088 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :There also seems to be a pattern of a single newbie repeatedly asking trivial questions and coming to dominate the channel for a period of time. < 1326271136 454014 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Usually in an attempt to get working by trial-and-error. < 1326271141 443493 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That just falls under "noise", though. < 1326271147 981931 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, the Standard Monad Joke Templates are definitely something I did for a while and then one day was like "this is fucking stupid" < 1326271164 651925 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc helped me see the light on that. < 1326271184 496821 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact after some of kmc's rants I just started disliking inside jokes a lot more. < 1326271186 157043 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is that dealing with the monopolizers entails being un-"friendly" < 1326271193 695333 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :On a theoretical level if nothing else. < 1326271199 317675 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, when I start a cult you can be my lieutenant < 1326271203 137645 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still make them when they come up because, like, maybe #haskell will implode if it reaches critical mass of terrible. < 1326271229 269517 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1326271229 428628 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott you're like all those neocons who were secret trotskyites < 1326271229 601937 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes! < 1326271229 914019 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :trying to ruin the USA so the workers would revolt against the capitalist system < 1326271230 73823 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Inside jokes are fine if a) everybody present understands them and b) they're funny. < 1326271231 972987 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Yes, yes, I get the point. < 1326271242 919290 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Not if they're only funny by virtue of being inside. < 1326271247 19292 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately usually both a) and b) are violated. < 1326271259 367865 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the inside jokes in #haskell are a way of establishing that you're In The Know about monads < 1326271262 403222 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: That probably means they're not funny. < 1326271267 166760 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's kinda like all the inside jokes stoners make about pot < 1326271278 147426 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has done a lot of that, too < 1326271297 385949 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hasn't done a lot of that. < 1326271323 852594 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The two things #haskell could use to be much better would be (a) pointing newbies at a tutorial once they ask a few really basic/misguided questions rather than encouraging them further, (b) cutting down on the incessant injoking like that, and (c) what kmc said about having links to decent explanations of things on hand rather than impromptu IRC lectures. < 1326271368 11181 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks for elaborating < 1326271370 601042 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think writing a bunch of wiki pages is the most practical solution to (c) because nobody will do it; keeping links to high-quality existing material like blog posts and SO answers seems more practical. < 1326271374 328288 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*three things < 1326271376 997044 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :2=3 and all that. < 1326271387 617746 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think we're broadly in agreement < 1326271397 446791 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a couple of other gripes too < 1326271402 646889 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : it's kinda like all the inside jokes stoners make about pot < 1326271402 966112 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know if they're real or just something i'm imagining < 1326271404 868522 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :MONADS ARE LIKE POT < 1326271411 508768 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"blog posts and my SO answers" < 1326271414 520743 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has done it, he's the worst person, everybody go home. < 1326271416 623338 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monads are like pot, once you get in you can't get out < 1326271417 455490 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1326271419 835360 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: EXACTLY. < 1326271422 691292 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a totally accurate statement about both right < 1326271423 997179 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't the Haskell wikibook decent? < 1326271440 970866 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: It's just another tutorial for the most part, I think. Its explanation of zippers is excellent, though. < 1326271448 655933 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: When I tried to read it it was pretty horrible. < 1326271449 449515 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Also I think it has one of the famously bad monad analogies. < 1326271458 343790 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was back in the "monads as spacesuits" era, though. < 1326271469 791139 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, "monads as nuclear waste containers" was its phrasing. < 1326271494 833582 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, Apfelmus wrote most of the Haskell wikibook zipper stuff. < 1326271551 186383 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :my other complaints include a) the attitude that an idea is as good as working, tested code; b) the attitude that any feature Haskell lacks isn't important < 1326271554 557756 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Something that would be useful is using lambdabot's @where to answer people more, I think; it would be fairly easily to populate it with stock answers+links to common basic questions. < 1326271564 203201 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1326271570 878022 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm a little disappointed that my haskellwiki FAQ hasn't caught on < 1326271576 369684 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, it's not that great < 1326271578 128740 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that the one on the page [[FAQ]]? < 1326271584 982466 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but people (besides shachaf) have no interest in linking it or improving it < 1326271586 882892 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1326271588 943396 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've linked people to it. < 1326271593 461300 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, cool < 1326271598 173293 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/FAQ < 1326271600 113696 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I've seen other non-shachaf people link to it for the existential antipattern stuff. < 1326271604 616468 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1326271608 583478 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I think those two complaints are more broad than IRC, anyway. < 1326271612 703390 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"non-shachaf people" < 1326271613 535804 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i did a quick logsearch recently to see if my claims were holding < 1326271637 160205 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i don't want to be all petulant about "you're not using my wonderful wiki page" < 1326271642 956398 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I don't think anyone would actually agree with (a) if you stated it in that way, so I'm inclined to say it's an issue of communication. (b) is... eh, maybe there is some of it, but #haskell doesn't have to respond to people attacking the language. < 1326271645 617073 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean if people extensively rewrote all the answers and linked to them, that would be cool too < 1326271657 310624 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it's not about attacking the language < 1326271660 399476 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Haskell community in general is way too quick to engage people who clearly don't give a shit about Haskell and are just trolling. < 1326271662 183031 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Oh, I know. < 1326271676 331276 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I'm just saying that it's easy to mistake legitimate complaints from just another troll attack on the language. < 1326271680 578990 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1326271694 399148 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you ask about regexes or Java interop, you'll get a bunch of noise about how only losers would want those things < 1326271697 528334 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tend to just ignore people criticising Haskell because it's almost always the latter. < 1326271718 365225 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell experts criticize haskell too, and they should not be ignored < 1326271725 179722 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree. < 1326271733 182585 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's less of that though < 1326271774 169831 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries something. < 1326271885 500661 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1326271897 432079 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shh. I'm doing science. < 1326271908 301345 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-240-14.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskellers criticising Haskell also tend to give meaningful criticism, not "it's not boring!" < 1326271965 275310 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if this science is immoral. < 1326271975 278608 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you doing human experimentation on #haskell < 1326271999 517035 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :How...dare you! The very idea! Yes. < 1326272017 665605 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You can't fool me with your lower-case pronouns! < 1326272304 715670 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Well, parser combinators were recommended at first, I got pointed at a (not all that useful for a beginner) wiki page with a comparison of Haskell regex libraries with a specific mild recommendation of regex-pcre, and only one person outright said I don't want to use regexps. < 1326272313 729569 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It could be better, but it could be worse. < 1326272323 789927 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Java interop I would be less optimistic about getting good answers to. < 1326272331 23818 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, it's very dependent on who is active at any given time... < 1326272417 777231 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :RIP dajfsa 2012-2012 < 1326272421 819052 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1326272425 566868 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :u devious elliott < 1326272426 42195 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"We exploited you" < 1326272476 459969 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:00 < qqMuppetpp> dajfsa: if you're just doing it for learning purposes, go with Parsec < 1326272493 330748 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:01 < quicksilver> parser combinators are better than regexps for just about everything except, of course, for the factor of programmer knowledge < 1326272512 410840 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:01 < quicksilver> if you're doing something by a real world deadline then it may make sense to use the tool you're more familiar with even if it's the worse tool. < 1326272520 936898 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"the haskell way is always the better way" < 1326272536 859800 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is, the haskell way really is often the better way < 1326272541 966553 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :people generalize from that < 1326272574 413190 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think parser combinators _are_ usually better than regexps, or at least something like them is. < 1326272586 156324 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1326272606 496468 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's tricky because forcing everyone to adopt the Haskell Way wholesale all in one go doesn't work very well, but nobody wants to make a polished, robust library for doing something they don't think is the best way to accomplish things. < 1326272612 885296 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1326272642 791365 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems like often the Right Way to do something was just discovered in a paper published this year < 1326272656 644327 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and only works with GHC HEAD and is not compatible with other libraries < 1326272659 892051 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't think that a language community is obligated to make things easy for newbies, so he tends to prefer a larger learning curve if it makes the long-term experience better. < 1326272700 570604 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The Committee is not addressing lazy programmers. < 1326272702 194487 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the regexp libraries seem OK, so dissuading people too heavily off them is silly. < 1326272706 234849 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yes. < 1326272716 729885 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the regexp libraries that use the awful typeclass interface are not OK < 1326272751 849159 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Right, the Right Way to dor egexps was just discovered in a library published this year, it only works with base 4.4, and it's not compatible with other regexp libraries... < 1326272754 390200 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*do regexps < 1326272772 264571 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :" anecdotally I would say I've seen more people bitten by the greedy nature of regexp when they didn't want it, than people specifically needing the greedy behaviour" < 1326272774 522573 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The typeclass thing is horrible, but lots of things are horrible and they still work. < 1326272779 87822 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :these are the kind of anecdotes i really distrust < 1326272791 651116 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :confirmation bias < 1326272823 41777 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Note how the regexp chat has extended about 5 minutes after the problem was solved and the person with it left... < 1326272828 430130 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1326272841 608176 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that a bad thing? < 1326272842 83569 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it's right and proper for it to be a contentious issue < 1326272845 903370 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the status quo sucks < 1326272866 371289 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: In the context of #haskell, yes, because it's obvious that nobody is going to change their opinions on regexp < 1326272871 721813 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know < 1326272878 75824 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And there doesn't actually seem to be any substantial concrete disagreement at all < 1326272879 382240 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i've changed various opinions based on things i've heard in #haskell < 1326272889 18977 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently i've changed shachaf's opinion about some things < 1326272910 391212 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think we need more consensus about the solutions to various common problems < 1326272915 551367 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and discussion is important for that < 1326272927 882043 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there's a line somewhere between that and endless bickering where nobody is willing to change < 1326272929 210251 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(=~) :: (RegexMaker Regex CompOption ExecOption source, RegexContext Regex source1 target) => source1 -> source -> target < 1326272931 785800 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What a good type. < 1326272934 42915 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1326272960 416362 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wouldn't < 1326272963 332713 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :class FunctionLike argument result where f :: argument -> result < 1326272964 283994 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :class Match a where (=~) :: a < 1326272965 393952 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :be simpler? < 1326272970 298478 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1326272974 498250 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not even kidding. < 1326272984 10994 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :instance (MatchResult r) => Match (String -> r) where ... < 1326273128 215733 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Did you know unsafePerformIO isn't actually in Haskell 2010? < 1326273130 362369 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was shocked. < 1326273131 312999 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1326273136 870713 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's unsafeLocalState or whatever < 1326273151 571694 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :discussion in GHC mailing lists of implementing that with unsafeDupablePerformIO < 1326273154 505854 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:27:12 is there any combinator library more similar to regexes in the range of semantics expressed? are PEG the way to go for this? < 1326273154 665345 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:27:57 (by "similar" I meant "provides an usable superset") < 1326273160 362268 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Mention regex-applicative already! < 1326273162 428710 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't take it any more! < 1326273193 883640 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: The nice thing is that it's deprecated by design. < 1326273204 114290 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a note saying "Expect this to go away in the future!!!". < 1326273218 14266 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which? < 1326273222 992024 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :unsafeLocalState. < 1326273226 651966 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lulz < 1326273234 8775 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's unsafeLocalState? < 1326273238 102873 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it will go away once functional programming dominates the world < 1326273243 753701 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and we no longer need to interface to C libraries < 1326273246 332079 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: unsafePerformIOButYou'reNotAllowedToUseMoreThanAFewFunctionsInIt < 1326273253 58813 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Well, I think it means "replaced with something less ridiculous". < 1326273288 825321 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see it in the Report. < 1326273296 818598 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Look harder. < 1326273300 51348 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Foreign < 1326273301 960 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's in Foreign. < 1326273304 60435 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Somewhere. < 1326273316 91171 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: MENTION REGEX-APPLICATIVE!!!!!!! < 1326273332 718890 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders how much longer MUFFIN_'s continued presence in #haskell will last. < 1326273339 248393 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, the Report goes past section 12. < 1326273357 50777 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's a MUFFIN_ < 1326273393 422613 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: A troll. < 1326273423 177981 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't see anything in the past few days < 1326273446 657268 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/haskell/12.01.11. I'm logstalking! < 1326273455 767573 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is how I know shachaf STILL HASN'T MENTIONED REGEX-APPLICATIVE. < 1326273461 73349 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION cries. < 1326273489 537751 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1326273536 313123 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: You mock my pain. < 1326273550 528926 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, you can implement unsafePerformIO with the FFI. < 1326273553 362029 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :foreign export ccall foo :: Int -> IO Double < 1326273553 517935 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :foreign import ccall "foo" bar :: Int -> Double < 1326273578 358712 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1326273586 607369 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that legal? < 1326273589 987263 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Works in my GHC. < 1326273595 278422 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what that means. < 1326273601 772532 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell is the same as ghc < 1326273602 566541 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, I mean, presumably it's exporting a symbol. < 1326273603 358860 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you're fine < 1326273616 114834 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :only smug beardos care about the spec < 1326273633 230449 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :#haskell jokes are rapidly becoming monad tutorial jokes. < 1326273633 547352 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is a beardo like a typo? < 1326273662 116256 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't actually understand the FFI. < 1326273678 706011 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is the whole "you give it a type and it makes it work" thing just magic? < 1326273684 478705 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :define "magic" < 1326273691 571747 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I suppose it's well-defined in the report. < 1326273695 60712 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: There's a table of Haskell<->C type conversions. < 1326273697 359495 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the report. < 1326273718 569974 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, not magic. < 1326273740 537145 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just weird. < 1326273746 42312 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :By the way, does anyone know the answer to this: Monad : ArrowApply :: ? : Arrow < 1326273766 867197 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. a typeclass of kind (* -> *) -> Constraint that is equivalent to Arrow in the same way that Monad is equivalent to ArrowApply. < 1326273778 540414 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably there is none < 1326273780 152604 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably with a subclass that brings it to Monad. < 1326273787 694784 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: That seems bizarre. < 1326273793 678127 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm pretty drunk though < 1326273797 164325 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't mean one in a library though. < 1326273805 358109 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just mean, what is it? < 1326273837 70840 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it's not Applicative, because the Category+Applicative+laws stuff is with the two-argument types. < 1326273982 478746 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION to sleep < 1326274052 520983 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :'night shachaf < 1326274060 270056 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :godspeed you! black emperor < 1326274123 755043 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Is "night" not a complete word? < 1326274135 213709 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not the complete word which goes there < 1326274375 342462 :ais523!~ais523@147.188.254.178 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326274375 535076 :ais523!~ais523@147.188.254.178 QUIT :Changing host < 1326274375 535227 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326274764 160341 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome ais523 < 1326274775 235966 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page < 1326275006 248512 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? @ elliott welcome < 1326275009 562054 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​@ elliott welcome? ¯\(°_o)/¯ < 1326275010 393321 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1326275015 568864 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`@ elliott ? welcome < 1326275018 932200 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page < 1326275054 469736 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the wendy's near my house closed :( < 1326275134 882548 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is a wendy's < 1326275148 168057 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what do you mean by "near"? running distance? walking distance? < 1326275228 429132 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some sort of a restaurant chain, isn't it? Burgers or something. < 1326275231 445959 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I've actually had esolang thoughts in 2012 < 1326275241 344458 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :came up with a new esolang while failing to sleep last night, I think < 1326275257 557131 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's vaguely inspired by both Anarchy and My Name Is Johny, What The F**K??? < 1326275383 253564 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's an attempt to make the most powerful language I can in which all programs always halt < 1326275396 932883 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and that's computable to determine whether a program is written in the language or not) < 1326275452 916867 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : When a web hosting company is offering $6.95 hosting plan does this mean that you have to pay $6.95? < 1326275640 259185 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it means they will host six dollars and ninety-five cents for you < 1326275642 638620 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :free of charge < 1326275660 982689 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone tell me about My Name Is Johny, What The F**K < 1326275671 41857 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It means they will tell you of their plan to host $6.95, free of charge < 1326275684 308291 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1326275698 855503 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : and it's an attempt to make the most powerful language I can in which all programs always halt < 1326275703 622274 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: it's something elliott's working on, basically it's for writing reversible programs, but instead of allowing only reversible primitives, it instead requires functions to come with a proof of reversibility < 1326275708 961686 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I somewhat doubt you'll beat the proof assistants. < 1326275711 854757 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, what? < 1326275717 153966 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember Johny being that. < 1326275724 44448 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, really? < 1326275728 288032 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I parsed it so that if you pay $6.95, they'll graciously tell you about their hosting plans. < 1326275729 657042 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although Johny has been about fifteen languages in search of a name. < 1326275749 33931 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you had explicit destroy-data primitives that proved that the data being destroyed could still be reconstructed < 1326275762 357615 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least, you've only told us about one of the fifteen < 1326275781 113418 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: No, there was also the 2D ones. < 1326275790 458325 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you've only told /me/ about one of them < 1326275795 206129 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1326275799 732977 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You just don't remember the other ones. < 1326275804 150068 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you've only told me about one of them when I was paying attention? < 1326275811 882477 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or you forgot. < 1326276280 12792 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh, I was going on a different principle altogether than the proof assistants < 1326276283 123968 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, hmm < 1326276311 421665 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh, by the way, new BN dynasty, I'm running it < 1326276665 582752 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Well, the proof assistants' advantage is that they've got significantly more power than any one given rule. < 1326276699 78791 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what I mean was, I wasn't trying to compete with what they were doing < 1326276757 968937 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was just a responset o "make the most powerful language I can in which all programs always halt". < 1326276762 616419 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*response to < 1326277370 312103 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1326278347 488855 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1326278373 40912 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326278893 431996 :roper!~rdrp@46.222.233.81 NICK :atrapado < 1326278909 607109 :atrapado!~rdrp@46.222.233.81 QUIT :Quit: Bye < 1326278940 821821 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1326279348 556446 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-193-161.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326279360 379206 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-240-14.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1326279365 592473 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, kallisti update (potentially quite a while ago, but I just saw it now) < 1326279371 716184 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, 5 hours ago I guess < 1326279425 186220 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti keeps getting updated, never gets better < 1326279885 62362 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326279987 860192 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey QUIT :Quit: The Other Game < 1326281586 45562 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326282223 243807 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1326282223 438993 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net QUIT :*.net *.split < 1326282223 598855 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1326282223 759669 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :*.net *.split < 1326282223 759743 :Nisstyre!~yours@c-208-90-102-250.netflash.net QUIT :*.net *.split < 1326282223 759813 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net QUIT :*.net *.split < 1326282223 918714 :Lymia!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan QUIT :*.net *.split < 1326282223 918870 :MSleep!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :*.net *.split < 1326282223 918945 :rodgort!~rodgort@li125-242.members.linode.com QUIT :*.net *.split < 1326282223 919020 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi QUIT :*.net *.split < 1326282224 75695 :Patashu!Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :*.net *.split < 1326282224 387873 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se QUIT :*.net *.split < 1326282224 388013 :yorick!~yorick@unaffiliated/yorick QUIT :*.net *.split < 1326282224 857222 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com QUIT :*.net *.split < 1326282225 164068 :jix!~jix@dronf.net QUIT :*.net *.split < 1326282225 164216 :SimonRC_!~sc@fof.durge.org QUIT :*.net *.split < 1326282225 566448 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :*.net *.split < 1326282226 459558 :mtve!~mtve@65.98.99.53 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1326282226 641402 :cswords!~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net QUIT :*.net *.split < 1326282226 641705 :cheater!~cheater@dslb-084-057-009-068.pools.arcor-ip.net QUIT :*.net *.split < 1326282226 642057 :yiyus!~124271242@je.je.je QUIT :*.net *.split < 1326282226 833053 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@222.122.156.78 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1326282226 833141 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:coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca QUIT :*.net *.split < 1326282229 13095 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope QUIT :*.net *.split < 1326282229 13237 :Zetro!~Zetro@zetro.xen.prgmr.com QUIT :*.net *.split < 1326282229 225586 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net QUIT :*.net *.split < 1326282229 436244 :const!root@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :*.net *.split < 1326282229 436386 :comex!~comex@ec2-50-19-141-233.compute-1.amazonaws.com QUIT :*.net *.split < 1326282229 659857 :Zuu!zuu@unaffiliated/zuu QUIT :*.net *.split < 1326282229 872813 :qfr!void@unaffiliated/yw QUIT :*.net *.split < 1326282229 872959 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org QUIT :*.net *.split < 1326282230 282986 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi QUIT :*.net *.split < 1326282230 283060 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi QUIT :*.net *.split < 1326282230 283200 :clog!~nef@bespin.org QUIT :*.net *.split < 1326282230 471550 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster QUIT :*.net *.split < 1326282230 471703 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :*.net *.split < 1326282609 478805 :glogbackup!~glogbacku@64.31.59.246 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326282609 478907 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326282609 478944 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326282609 478978 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-193-161.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326282609 479011 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326282609 479045 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1326282609 479077 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1326282609 479110 :cswords!~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326282609 479179 :_Slereah!~butt@ANantes-259-1-159-48.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1326282609 479211 :cheater!~cheater@dslb-084-057-009-068.pools.arcor-ip.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326282609 479243 :Zuu!zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric < 1326282609 479274 :Patashu!Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1326282609 479307 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1326282609 479339 :Nisstyre!~yours@c-208-90-102-250.netflash.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326282609 479370 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326282609 479403 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326282609 479435 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1326282609 479466 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie JOIN :#esoteric < 1326282609 479499 :Lymia!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan JOIN :#esoteric < 1326282609 479530 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1326282609 479561 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1326282609 479613 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1326282609 479645 :rodgort!~rodgort@li125-242.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1326282609 479677 :MSleep!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326282609 479708 :yiyus!~124271242@je.je.je JOIN :#esoteric < 1326282609 479740 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1326282609 479772 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326282609 479804 :SimonRC_!~sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1326282609 479836 :jix!~jix@dronf.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326282609 479867 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1326282609 479899 :yorick!~yorick@unaffiliated/yorick JOIN :#esoteric < 1326282609 479931 :qfr!void@unaffiliated/yw JOIN :#esoteric < 1326282609 479962 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1326282609 479992 :FireFly!firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1326282609 480024 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@222.122.156.78 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326282609 480056 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia JOIN :#esoteric < 1326282609 480089 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1326282609 480120 :ineiros!~itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1326282609 480151 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1326282609 480182 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1326282609 480213 :Systemzwang!miekko@infa.abo.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1326282609 480244 :lahwran!lahwran@unaffiliated/lahwran JOIN :#esoteric < 1326282609 480276 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope JOIN :#esoteric < 1326282609 480307 :mtve!~mtve@65.98.99.53 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326282609 480339 :const!root@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric < 1326282609 480370 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1326282609 480402 :clog!~nef@bespin.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1326282609 480433 :comex!~comex@ec2-50-19-141-233.compute-1.amazonaws.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1326282609 632964 :Zetro!~Zetro@zetro.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1326282629 441268 :glogbackup!~glogbacku@64.31.59.246 PART :#esoteric < 1326282630 449895 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326282630 606086 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Client Quit < 1326282631 128882 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1326282631 285139 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326282631 285357 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[11:44] Stop forgetting about left identity. < 1326282631 285482 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[11:45] no it doesn't; f can only possibly have the type x -> () < 1326282631 285581 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[11:45] so without _|_, there's only one possible value for f < 1326282658 188907 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: or to put it another way, the left hand side is return a >>= f = return a = (), and the right hand side is f a = () because f has () as its return value < 1326282663 109316 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant return = const (), not return = (), above < 1326282667 559957 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523 < 1326283834 103414 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1326283880 612701 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell ais523 Stop forgetting about left identity. Oh, no. OK, fine, it's a monad. < 1326283881 15078 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1326284131 505934 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ponders the best way to initialize an IntMap of MVar () < 1326284238 535175 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could write code to write initialization for each individual number or something, but that seems stupid. I guess I could work out the smallest and largest possible value and do something with that < 1326284293 783147 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But is there a way to exploit laziness to make it have a number of locks equivalent to the number of Ints (I mean, similarly to a Map Integer (MVar ()) and having that have an infinite number of locks) < 1326284333 999854 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :unsafeInterleaveIO < 1326284343 885008 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But a full IntMap will be huge. < 1326284369 55476 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least assuming IntMap is spline-strict, which I rather suspect it is. < 1326284525 355233 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you're mom never gets better. < 1326284584 771940 :Patashu!Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 , Skype: patashu0 . < 1326284645 470361 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The thing is, I do for these purposes know how many and which locks I need, but if I didn't... < 1326284702 217472 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess for Integer, I could make a function instead of a physical map < 1326284714 226506 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, I'd still need memoization < 1326284750 191192 :FireFly!firefly@unaffiliated/firefly PART #esoteric :"→" < 1326284842 333444 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: You sound even more confused as usual; I'm going to hazard a guess you're doing something in an awful manner. < 1326284845 271863 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*confused than < 1326285155 147853 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I'm interleaving talking about what I know I want and hypothetical thoughts on what if I wanted something slightly different. < 1326285225 717449 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric : like going to a nissan dealership and discussing subaru? < 1326287615 367134 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326287654 639547 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages? < 1326287654 834981 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. < 1326287712 802004 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I should make a graph of messages per day against Homestuck updates, but I suspect that it a) wouldn't actually be a terribly strong correlation and b) would have next to no available data. < 1326287779 500751 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover is a true scientist. < 1326287792 72541 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION graphs price of tea in China v. hoovers phantommed. < 1326288212 966718 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since I'm going to be locking a bunch of these things at once, I think I'll go with IntMap (TMVar ()) instead of IntMap (MVar ()) < 1326288276 38987 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Err, I'm not sure you understand how locks work? < 1326288294 745305 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Getting a bunch of locks in succession should not be any less safe than getting them all atomically, they're /locks/. < 1326288337 304501 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, unless I accidentally get locks in different orders from what I want to < 1326288345 301232 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, in different orders in different places < 1326288354 194776 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt that would happen, but still < 1326288368 634597 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I'm rapidly becoming sure you don't understand how locks work < 1326288373 715655 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*work. < 1326288389 576928 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Suppose one thread tries to lock A, then B. A second thread tries to lock B, then A < 1326288437 640814 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should be able to control the order in which things are locked, so I should be able to avoid that, but still < 1326288455 232294 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :just put a lock around locking a and b < 1326288525 721298 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: If two locks are required for one thing and are taken together, shouldn't they be one lock? < 1326288573 981550 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, in my case, one function might require locks 1, 2, 3, another locks 1, 4, 5, another locks 10, 11, 12, another locks 4, 6 < 1326288574 652103 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc < 1326288610 903830 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: This is the part where I return to hypothesis A, you're doing something badly. < 1326288640 342185 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may be designing around a scenario in the AW SDK that may or may not actually be present < 1326288641 414875 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Anyway, STM doesn't magically get rid of contention. < 1326288645 81615 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :This conversation seems deadlocked. < 1326288668 184233 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: Welcome to #esoteric! < 1326288672 743625 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://s3.amazonaws.com/files.posterous.com/timmmii/qjHzdDCcguJinwAktqmbksrwFBbuDGHnysCFpJxllodAnngiGlHbdxgJJzBv/media_httpcdn0knowyourmemecomi1569originalsnortingcokejpg1240906811_mBxaCmuIJBCpbwl.jpg.scaled1000.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAJFZAE65UYRT34AOQ&Expires=1326288940&Signature=yQwe7dHO4MBkgwUpNnz0J5iHoIs%3D < 1326288679 509873 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow that link was quite big < 1326288695 4924 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly it's just a non-halting conversation that keeps on chugging. < 1326288700 354284 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-158-105.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326288703 497250 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-193-161.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1326288714 820034 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is a design flaw that I know I have to deal with, and this particular approach to dealing with it seems ideal to me, in that I don't have to determine which functions need what locks and then figure out which functions may be called together or not < 1326289293 116080 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh man!! Zed Shaw has published an OPINION about the K&R book? THANKS PROGGIT, THERE'S NOTHING I LOVE MORE THAN HEARING ZED SHAW'S OPINIONS! NOTHING! < 1326289320 760792 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, Valgrind proves K&R are idiots. < 1326289338 572127 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also apparently the book is called "K&R C"? < 1326289544 394788 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the past all of us used to sit down about on the ground or around the desk and also play the board game with family or close friends. Right now online games are usually played by yourself or with assorted people all over the net. You are able to frequently become having fun with someone across the additional side on the planet. Nowadays we have absolutely no contact and even understand the other players that individuals are usually playing wit < 1326289544 550259 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :h and can't see them either. < 1326289682 294956 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Were you talking about that "Deconstructing K&R" thing? < 1326289733 58458 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yes, but it's actually 'Deconstructing "K&R C"' for some unfathomable reason. < 1326289740 647508 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also why did you read it, I'm the only person stupid enough to subject myself to Zed Shaw. < 1326289774 572082 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[ < 1326289774 769055 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :83 people answered the first question, "When a command is misused, should it deliver its usage message to standard output or to standard error?". 62 (75%) agreed that the message should go to stderr; 11 (13%) said it should go to stdout. 10 indicated that they preferred a more complicated policy, of which 4 were essentially (or exactly) what M. Echeverri suggested; this brings the total in favor of stderr to 66 (80%). The others were: < 1326289774 769251 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[...] < 1326289774 769355 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :3.A very long response that suggested syslog. < 1326289776 532380 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[...] < 1326289778 532821 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :]] < 1326289783 736806 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :syslog, the best place to put --help output. < 1326289789 810675 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*3. A < 1326289802 565192 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What did M. Echeverri suggest? < 1326289829 556975 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"#3 seemed to be answering a different question than the one that was asked; syslog may make sense for general diagnostics, but to use it for usage messages seems peculiar." < 1326289834 45818 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: http://blog.plover.com/Unix/usage.html < 1326289909 836777 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It's been linked to from both ##c and (IIRC) comp.lang.c a couple of times already, in agitation. Anyway, I didn't "read" it; I glanced at the start of it, and didn't quite get the point. There's a strcpy() (well, a "copy()") function which does not work when called with non-null-terminated char*'s, and that's somehow a bad thing because it "only works in this delicate balance". < 1326289996 578008 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: You read ##c? < 1326290016 310767 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just jump in with a fireproof suit, yell my question, breathe in, wait five minutes for an answer, and then jump out the window. < 1326290050 904105 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I glance at the bottom of the scrollback every other hour or so, and sometimes paste the worst bits to a query. < 1326290051 846364 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Oh, man: "In the rest of this chapter though we will be modernizing the code in "K&R C" to fit the style you've been learning throughout this book. It will be more verbose, but it will be clearer and less error prone because of this slight increase in verbosity." < 1326290059 77287 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the bestestworst idea for a programming book ever. < 1326290099 201574 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :For example, currently there's "discussion" on why "double d = 10; printf("%d",d);" is not printing out "10". < 1326290120 799252 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: You forgot the quotes. < 1326290128 788127 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :printf("\"%d\"", d); < 1326290129 501473 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :HTH < 1326290153 384313 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well done. < 1326290865 613977 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there any reason not to use TMVars? < 1326291132 799115 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Teenage Mutant Variables? < 1326291334 888897 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish political cartoons had never moved beyond the "label everything so there's no chance you make any metaphors" stage. < 1326291374 915454 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: They have? < 1326291378 752666 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1326291474 335321 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yeah, now they make a caricature of any given political figure and then that consists of their entire satire from then on. < 1326291676 855379 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326292010 714969 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-238-227.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326292020 402284 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-158-105.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1326292332 957347 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :waitForEvent :: (a -> Bool) -> TChan a -> STM a < 1326292355 243472 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This function is pretty much exactly what I was looking for for something < 1326292359 748957 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And would have written it myself < 1326292368 466501 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does this make it worth using a TChan instead of a Chan? < 1326292450 859090 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Why are you writing things to the Chan if you've going to discard them? < 1326292452 528679 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, this function might be wrong. < 1326292459 66891 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note that TChans are very different from Chans. < 1326292483 951307 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, my wrapper will be writing to a chan, users will be reading from < 1326292506 319942 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why are you exposing a Chan? < 1326292517 352697 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you want to let Your Users(tm) write to it, too? < 1326292534 92858 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, but if they do, nothing should break < 1326292544 861688 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do you want to let them write to it? < 1326292551 123536 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, you just said you don't. < 1326292556 110710 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So why do you care about what breaks? < 1326292558 642337 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're not making any sense. < 1326292706 917247 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I should just the IO for reading < 1326292715 339862 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, just the IO for reading. < 1326292738 794299 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the IO to close the thing < 1326292760 925477 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wondering if I should use ResourceT < 1326292811 744699 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Programming goes better with complete sentences. < 1326292838 58751 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Monad.Loops.iterateUntil does what I want, I think < 1326292844 45417 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assuming I just expose the IO to read < 1326292897 168440 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/monad-loops/latest/doc/html/src/Control-Monad-Loops.html#iterateUntil < 1326292900 896755 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION blinks at the = go < 1326292919 258557 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it's a label for the loop < 1326292989 134298 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: It's not. < 1326292996 893789 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :go has two fewer parameters than iterateUntil. < 1326293093 34188 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that .. saves computation? < 1326293151 404521 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: What do you think parameters are passed on? (It's not the aether.) < 1326293193 696171 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks like a tail call < 1326293200 248862 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Either wy < 1326293201 903324 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*way < 1326293222 137572 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(>>) is in tail position there, not go, not that it's at all relevant. < 1326293465 76521 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://wiki.activeworlds.com/index.php?title=AW_AVATAR_SESSION see the two AW_CALLBACKs? That suggests to me that my IntMap of locks is a good idea < 1326293507 861276 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...or, this case is a bit pathological < 1326293602 14659 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION decides not to click. < 1326293692 881425 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :_some_ callbacks have solutions to the main problem I'm trying to solve with these locks. Some do not. This case does, but in doing so, causes a complication that my IntMap of locks solves < 1326293703 669579 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: i doubt the value of political satire etc < 1326293840 539112 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess its good to keep people reminded that politicians are not what their marketed image suggests < 1326293897 678707 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but satire can also make politician popular and appear more friendly, more comicbook-like < 1326294104 195316 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-222-232.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326294123 982431 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-238-227.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1326295195 488031 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326295484 813043 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :once :: IO (IO a, IO ()) -> IO a < 1326295517 189278 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Come to think of it, there's no particular reason that once's argument needs to be in IO < 1326295532 927870 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it does make it slightly easier to use over once =<< whatever < 1326295971 464032 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea what that is meant to do. < 1326296001 49296 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Performs the read once, then closes < 1326296080 213390 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :um... once m = m >>= \(a,b) -> a <* b? < 1326296101 249917 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (<*) < 1326296102 189101 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (f :: * -> *) a b. (Applicative f) => f a -> f b -> f a < 1326296120 57419 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll probably forget that when it's time to implement it, but it's easy enough to write anyway < 1326296140 506365 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I'd probably end up using do notation < 1326296175 811678 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you saying that's seriously what it is? < 1326296175 968039 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src (<*) < 1326296176 522767 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(<*) = liftA2 const < 1326296186 679386 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because if it is, that type is the most stupid possible way to express it. < 1326296205 437160 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm? < 1326296257 241145 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm what? < 1326296268 412355 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How is it the most stupid possible way to express it? < 1326296284 664986 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because your type looks like < 1326296289 209303 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :once :: IO (IO a, IO ()) -> IO a < 1326296290 173167 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of < 1326296292 981878 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :once :: (Applicative f) => f a -> f b -> f a < 1326296299 861878 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also the word "once" is irrelevant. < 1326296321 323877 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's relevent to what I imagine typical usage would be in applications using my wrapper < 1326296382 24271 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If something of that type and semantics is common, your wrapper suck. < 1326296383 176373 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s. < 1326296521 470388 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1326297209 757092 :cheater_!~cheater@178-26-46-133-dynip.superkabel.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1326297453 347704 :cheater_!~cheater@178-26-46-133-dynip.superkabel.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder, are there imacs with touch screens ? < 1326297464 719375 :cheater_!~cheater@178-26-46-133-dynip.superkabel.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i could use an older one, as a sort of youtube based ipod < 1326297467 577733 :cheater_!~cheater@178-26-46-133-dynip.superkabel.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :kinda thing. < 1326297484 596340 :cheater_!~cheater@178-26-46-133-dynip.superkabel.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd totally google but i'm web-disabled for the next hour. < 1326297494 278181 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escitalopram < 1326297496 74873 :cheater_!~cheater@178-26-46-133-dynip.superkabel.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is also the wrong channel. < 1326297505 157603 :cheater_!~cheater@178-26-46-133-dynip.superkabel.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hi Phantom_Hoover. < 1326297507 791081 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, a drug which is literally the mirror image of another drug by the same company. < 1326297516 514124 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater_, fuck off. < 1326297527 194799 :cheater_!~cheater@178-26-46-133-dynip.superkabel.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, fuck ON! < 1326297578 542675 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Wow, a drug which is literally the mirror image of another drug by the same company. < 1326297584 65560 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: What a scummy cost-cutting tactic! < 1326297594 60011 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, I was joking. < 1326297603 598750 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But apparently people are actually saying that so maybe it's actually true. < 1326297640 612298 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Soon they're going to start selling versions with green nitrogen blobs instead of those blue ones seen there. < 1326297642 264140 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the main bit is where they denied that it was just clinging to patents despite it being literally identical in structure. < 1326297693 799657 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, no, you fool! < 1326297702 65667 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Well, there's only a limited number of parts they can twiddle! < 1326297711 144694 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, green blobs are chlorine! < 1326297711 817868 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :HAVE SOME EMPATHY. < 1326297744 307331 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Stick some paint on it, any blob can be anything. < 1326297773 693403 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: "Ingredients: Blue paint (98%), ..." < 1326297878 988741 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, wait, we can turn lead into gold by painting it yellow! < 1326297922 733916 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You didn't know? < 1326297954 258009 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, we're talking about sophisticated atomic painting here, not the shoddy work that fools you English idiots. < 1326297970 519914 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, the paintbrushes would have to be really, really small. < 1326298134 834237 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: dude, we use atomic paintbrushes in England. < 1326298164 22777 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, those are molecular paintbrushes. < 1326298311 149798 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Um have you ever even SEEN England? < 1326298325 698354 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1326298372 731531 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: No, you've seen the fake one we show to keep Scots complacent. < 1326298462 788444 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ha ha ha, you actually think we were fooled by that? < 1326298605 506784 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: so did they manage to take some drug they had a patent to, release an identical drug under another name, and get a patent for the new drug? < 1326298624 61490 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: For sufficiently wrong definitions of "identical". < 1326298674 40545 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if they could only get away with that then the third world would never see any medicine ever < 1326298675 966778 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it is identical. < 1326298715 751173 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure the synthesis is the same, for one thing, and there's no reliable evidence that it worked better. < 1326298731 172903 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok i see the hole in my logic < 1326298745 311736 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: but they can't retain their old patent in this way though right? < 1326298764 144808 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, sure they can, but patents expire. < 1326298769 854128 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a new patent surely doesn't empower them to keep an old patent < 1326298776 710323 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :...yes? < 1326298784 494150 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :As far as the patent office are concerned, it's a new drug. < 1326298797 813298 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1326298799 846656 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just happens to have exactly the same structure, but mirrored. < 1326298806 518659 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhmm < 1326298825 598029 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if people just make the drugs on the basis of the old drug then its ok right? < 1326298838 808266 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh? < 1326298857 500172 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh wow, it's even better than that. < 1326298875 402966 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're doing logic with me.. so since im not that smart this may hurt < 1326298895 203485 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i would invest 5 hours to express what i am trying to express if necessary < 1326298900 296802 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Citalopram is actually half-and-half escitalopram and its mirror; it's not a new drug at all. < 1326298914 905875 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so.. an analogy is necessary here < 1326299009 258686 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so a company has a patent to some drug A, and then they create a new patent to some identical drug B. to me the question is does this prevent people copying drug A < 1326299015 656414 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :without a patent < 1326299042 44870 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^when the patent for drug A expires < 1326299063 922987 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though A and B are (arguably) identical < 1326299117 559726 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I do want an operation other than readChan: tryGetChan. Although I don't think I saw such a function :( < 1326299144 348652 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose i should define copying < 1326299170 500226 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :copying = selling < 1326299240 886618 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott, it is identical. < 1326299241 157163 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : I'm pretty sure the synthesis is the same, for one thing, and there's no reliable evidence that it worked better. < 1326299254 431543 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I reserve the word "identical" for things that don't have two separate images distinguishing them. < 1326299282 855912 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't see what the problem is so long as the original is in the public domain < 1326299286 426200 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1326299305 710226 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i do.. maybe i do < 1326299315 721095 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hummm < 1326299321 861273 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: If you want tryGetChan, you're doing something wrong. < 1326299344 312902 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is all normal for the system < 1326299366 623305 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, huh? < 1326299393 163396 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess the problem is that they continue to refer to patents as patents < 1326299398 174877 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I think I need a policy of not responding to lines that have no possible response, like "huh?". < 1326299403 491019 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :time to look into the etymology < 1326299409 832517 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is it wrong to want tryGetChan? < 1326299454 426593 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: What possible purpose could you have for it? The only thing I can think of is doing things that should be done with threads. < 1326299464 723304 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The meaning "copyright an invention" is first recorded 1822, from earlier meaning "obtain exclusive right or monopoly" (1789), a privilege granted by the Crown via letters patent. < 1326299484 209277 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seeing if something has occured yet, and if not, doing something else < 1326299487 9236 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Either you're going to be polling it like crazy, which is bad, or you're going to know when an item has come in on the Chan, in which case you might as well just read it because you know it won't block. < 1326299530 180023 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if there's a problem with my main idea of turning an event-based system into something based on chans < 1326299537 304726 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Sounds like a Do It Yourself Race Condition In Ten Steps opportunity. < 1326299546 868895 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :copyright: "the right to make or sell copies," 1735, from copy + right. < 1326299572 31540 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: That idea is perfectly sound; your implementation sounds completely broken. < 1326299608 678441 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it's more me trying to figure out how users will use this < 1326299631 21192 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Than implementation-level things. Although I still haven't figured out exactly what sort of values will be going along the chans < 1326299733 875256 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :With the SDK itself, users set event handlers, and in their handlers, use functions like aw_int() to grab values out of something like global state < 1326299745 312707 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: No, your implementation itself sounds broken too. < 1326299756 332287 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so has everyone switched over to C++11 yet? < 1326299774 308746 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm thinking each of my event chans passes along its own type of things, but then what if I want to combine two events and have a chan that reads from either < 1326299808 148892 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe a structure representing the entire possible state, and converting these smaller things to that < 1326299818 590281 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :use an Either < 1326299818 746595 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Each of the fields in the larger things being a Maybe < 1326299853 272806 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, when a user wants a lot of event data pouring into one chan, that could get unwieldy < 1326299874 78485 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The user the user the user the user. < 1326299880 5103 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really know the problem. I just saw "combine two events and have a chan that reads from either" and thought Either. < 1326299898 333494 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems natural < 1326299912 281822 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, fine, imagine I said two or more < 1326299921 12837 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay. < 1326299944 604874 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Either A (Either B (Either C D) ) < 1326299947 254410 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :should be good < 1326299949 16091 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1326299992 235176 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or you could use tuples or something... < 1326300002 995509 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Maybe a, Maybe b, Maybe c) loooooool < 1326300014 884661 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell needs "Either tuples" < 1326300038 989319 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: a :+: b :+: c < 1326300044 596664 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, fine, I'll take the bait: < 1326300047 627776 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : With the SDK itself, users set event handlers, and in their handlers, use functions like aw_int() to grab values out of something like global state < 1326300052 365446 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (:+:) < 1326300053 594521 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: data constructor `:+:' < 1326300056 189341 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are these actual global state, or the equivalent of event params? < 1326300058 695774 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle (:+:) < 1326300059 442801 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :No results found < 1326300063 844981 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: ITT: :t is not :k < 1326300085 696334 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ITT: elliott anticipates I will magically distinguish type names from data constructors given no context < 1326300093 786642 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Either A (Either B (Either C D) ) < 1326300096 729829 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Haskell needs "Either tuples" < 1326300103 846913 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it was a :+: b :+: c as a value, it would not be Either. < 1326300120 217747 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, indeed. < 1326300139 97448 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :still the value-level syntax will be clunky with the Lefts and Rights < 1326300141 558869 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that (:+:) is in any standard place either, but it's easy to define. < 1326300157 481880 :Nisstyre!~yours@c-208-90-102-250.netflash.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1326300158 146982 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :here comes "define your own interface" < 1326300163 459483 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what do you mean by the equivalent of event params? < 1326300167 808231 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: You can fix that with a horrible typeclass hack. < 1326300176 596101 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh good < 1326300180 376344 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I don't know; I don't know anything about AW. < 1326300186 294491 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It depends on the circumstances, I think. Some are the equiv of event params, some are global state < 1326300191 731793 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Event params would be like "position mouse was clicked on" in a mouse click event. < 1326300195 477798 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: so Either + typeclass hacks you'll be good < 1326300198 434666 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Global state would be "current mouse position". < 1326300206 65609 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Event param would be "user invoking this request". < 1326300212 304090 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Global state would be "list of online users". < 1326300224 32266 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, some are one, some are the other < 1326300237 494854 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Do you know the list of relevant params for each given event? < 1326300250 309728 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Params-as-global-state, that is. < 1326300256 563229 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, can copy-paste from the wiki for that < 1326300268 429513 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really don't see where on earth a bunch of Chans comes in. < 1326300298 863619 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instead of event handlers, sending the data from each event to the user < 1326300299 189366 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo Chan Combinator Library SCCL < 1326300345 547954 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: What's wrong with event handlers? < 1326300349 470349 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have < 1326300358 530699 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :installEventHandler :: (Event e) => (e -> IO ()) -> IO () < 1326300361 529945 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can easily write < 1326300365 373241 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :waitForEvent :: (Event e) => IO e < 1326300366 451502 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :on top of it. < 1326300368 61090 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually channel combinators that produce channels of tuples would be Arrow < 1326300390 910239 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there something like "Arrow for Either"? < 1326300392 17714 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Specifically < 1326300395 939635 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: ArrowChoice < 1326300405 886384 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but then if I repeatly waitForEvent, I lose events < 1326300407 805805 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1326300408 787552 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :waitForEvent = do { v <- newEmptyMVar; installEventHandler (putMVar v); takeMVar v } < 1326300424 584864 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to be able to uninstall event handlers too < 1326300424 741818 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: There is no possible way you can lose events with ^ if installEventHandler does what it's supposed to. < 1326300431 920313 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :installEventHandler :: (Event e) => (e -> IO ()) -> IO (IO ()) < 1326300436 576888 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Returned IO action deregisters events. < 1326300440 462423 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is the AddHandler type of reactive-banana. < 1326300452 225437 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in, deregisters the installed handler. < 1326300452 630713 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So: < 1326300466 670036 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :waitForEvent = do { v <- newEmptyMVar; uninstall <- installEventHandler (putMVar v); r <- takeMVar v; uninstall; return r } < 1326300478 533161 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The uninstall isn't needed there; the event handler will just block in future. < 1326300480 32392 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think someone in #haskell pushed the idea of not preferring event handling on me < 1326300493 362346 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, if you're interpreting "install" as "replace", then it can drop events. < 1326300497 400151 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hopefully you're not doing that. < 1326300531 518208 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I certainly argued that a full blocking interface is often preferable, but you can't do that automatically. < 1326300537 68171 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The SDK does, but I'm planning on abstracting over that < 1326300541 37073 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have to build it manually based on domain-specific knowledge. < 1326300616 841173 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"abstracting over that": newEventHandler = newMVar Map.empty; addHandler v h = modifyMVar_ v $ \m -> do { u <- newUnique; return $ Map.insert u h m }; runHandlers v = readMVar v >>= mapM_ ($v) . Map.toList < 1326300662 765468 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I think Arrow would be a good choice for some signal processing algorithms < 1326300680 728782 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, please stop writing code for me, it does bother me < 1326300694 447751 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: "Arrow would be a good choice" --people who haven't yet tried to apply arrows to a problem < 1326300697 776468 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :as some are naturally expressed as dataflow diagrams, which Arrow represents pretty well. < 1326300702 829892 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No it doesn't. < 1326300706 211490 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Sorry, in the future I'll make sure to only write code for things you've never thought about. < 1326300711 771607 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I might need a queriable database. < 1326300771 839114 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure if anyone can tell, but I'm super grouchy today!! < 1326300786 672829 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Arrow would be better if you could use actual flow diagrams with it, really. < 1326300797 917565 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :As it is you have the choice between unreadable combinator code and ugly imperative proc notation. < 1326300802 590442 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, the tuples suck big-time. < 1326300815 868519 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arrowised FRP was in vogue for a while but it's not that popular any more for exactly these reasons. < 1326300832 515504 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, OK, it is fairly used, because the arrowised FRP implementations are some of the best, but the intelligentsia don't like it. < 1326300844 200065 :KingOfKarlsruhe!~nice@p5B1316A0.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326300955 725472 :Nisstyre!~yours@c-208-90-102-250.netflash.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326301054 291752 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I think if you had some decent syntax for it, it wouldn't so cumbersome < 1326301065 192606 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example a hetereogenous list syntax that's equivalent to linked tuples. < 1326301081 625847 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, if I use your waitForEvents twice in a row, and in between those usages, an event happens while I don't have a registered event handler, the code will never see it. < 1326301103 34167 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what I meant by dropping events < 1326301109 692752 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Are you saying, "unhandled events are not handled"? < 1326301115 112121 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that is true. < 1326301142 784255 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but a graphical tool to generate arrow code would be interesting < 1326301144 322751 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can always maintain a backlog of events for those with no handlers. < 1326301171 697807 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what, with hidden event handlers? < 1326301175 322812 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Arrows really aren't nice to use, even if you did have heterogeneous list stuff (which you can give list-style syntax, btw). < 1326301181 287829 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then the bot will be constantly sent information that it might not need. < 1326301187 56259 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: What? < 1326301198 693337 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Besides, being unable to use currying is gross. < 1326301205 265787 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arrows just aren't very Haskelly. < 1326301375 947316 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: have you seen http://www.grame.fr/Ressources/pub/faust-chapter.pdf < 1326301384 876111 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would appear arrows are very Fausty. < 1326301395 195960 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I guess I could make the installEventHandler more primitive than something Chan-based < 1326301434 768549 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure how you would represent the _ syntax in Faust, which basically stands for "an input" < 1326301442 646774 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess with regular function arguments... < 1326301485 771079 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, with the type used by reactive-banana, how would an event handler uninstall itself? I guess you could make a combinator that allows for that, but < 1326301565 583766 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: How can I go from A to C? I mean, I can go from A to B, and from B to C, but surely it would be better to glue A directly to C. For the user! < 1326301614 449374 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still don't see what < 1326301620 568019 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's so terrible about the Chan thing < 1326301646 930191 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I guess if adding a handler is a common case, it might be a bit inefficient < 1326301669 320251 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: _ is id. < 1326301685 291170 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1326301731 283662 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Lame how that Faust thing explicitly exposes the sample-rate by giving a one-sample delay. < 1326301752 893553 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :how would you do a delay with continuous functions? < 1326301753 920178 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But continuous time for signal processing seems to be an innovation restricted to FRP circles... < 1326301757 992011 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(from my incredibly biased sample set) < 1326301762 741832 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: A delay of what? < 1326301766 806819 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no smallest real number. < 1326301777 973513 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you have to perform delay in discrete signals... right? < 1326301835 725112 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: This is like how, in real life, since time is continuous, you can't put something off for 5 minutes. < 1326301848 317721 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have to jump into a computer and become discrete and wait 5 units of time. < 1326301849 214660 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1326301860 309958 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Therefore your deduction makes complete sense. < 1326301907 695814 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I don't understand. what's wrong with delay f d t = f (t - d t) < 1326301954 113165 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a very strange definition. < 1326301965 730759 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :delay t a b = \s -> if s < t then a s else b s < 1326301968 155897 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes more sense. < 1326301990 687954 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the answer is nothing; but that's not a one-sample delay, which is what I was complaining about. < 1326301995 493063 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's independent of sample-rate. < 1326302000 328838 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t mfix < 1326302001 312248 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a (m :: * -> *). (MonadFix m) => (a -> m a) -> m a < 1326302001 895681 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I thought you were complaining about the delay operator. < 1326302007 65447 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is that. < 1326302031 617574 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't really understand what your function is supposed to do. < 1326302057 98043 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: delay 0.1s (pure 42) b is 42 for 0.1s and b thereafter < 1326302068 316880 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :delay f d produces the signal f but delayed by the function d. < 1326302084 386763 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, thank you, I'm not an idiot. < 1326302093 898058 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is your delay a... delay? < 1326302096 448893 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The problem with that definition is that you can define pathological ds. < 1326302108 201096 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have to keep the entire history of f around to make that thing work, which is a time leak. < 1326302152 313190 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: oh, I fucked it up < 1326302186 103612 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, that definition is still unreasonable, but I was complaining about the one-sample delays which -- actually I'm starting to get the feeling you skipped the first 5 pages of this paper. < 1326302195 981070 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep. < 1326302212 979733 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :too much words, not enough programs. < 1326302213 304740 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION terminates this discussion. < 1326302226 591751 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok i can help < 1326302232 389781 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I read it ages ago, if that counts! < 1326302234 884221 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a random topic destroyer < 1326302244 929401 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok a question here.. is it possible to compute from a set of genes an image of what a lifeform will become. i guess environment is a factor. ((render genes) environment) < 1326302286 36813 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it is a case of "of course, if you had infinite computing power" < 1326302295 170832 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well you could force the delay to be a constant value in order to make it more efficient < 1326302320 946102 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Time leaks aren't just about "efficiency". < 1326302321 483517 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the extent to which the rendering is dependant upon environmental factors could be very signifigant < 1326302330 535866 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :A time leak means your program isn't properly streaming/real time. < 1326302336 881399 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as I know most delayed signals are delayed by a constant offset. < 1326302341 27856 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is, of course, crucial for signal processing. < 1326302360 158769 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You love biology, right? Then you'll love itidus21's question! < 1326302387 173185 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but would a constant offset fix this? < 1326302389 205126 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"* elliott terminates this discussion." i should have realized this was a bluff < 1326302391 13489 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1326302398 102841 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1326302437 331863 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: i really started to think about this question in the past in relation to video game characters < 1326302458 770040 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :humm.. but only now am i making the full connection < 1326302465 304754 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :video game characters with dna < 1326302467 286349 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: In that one, specific case, yes. (It has the rather serious problem that for the first `d`, the value is undefined.) < 1326302484 224691 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, genes cannot be used to reliably determine the properties of a final organism; indeed, it is probably impossible to reconstruct a single cell from them. < 1326302492 703523 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes I thought about that. < 1326302497 108975 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jeans on the other hand... < 1326302500 161240 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: and yet we read so much into them :P < 1326302513 633206 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Which is what my definition was trying to get at: you need a signal to use for the first d. < 1326302517 355992 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org TOPIC #esoteric :T-30 seconds 'til topic change | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1326302520 736335 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :They can still have a consistent influence. < 1326302532 451953 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :delay d f g = \t -> if d < t then f t else g (t-d) < 1326302534 285123 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: i wonder if that is because genes don't contain life itself < 1326302537 695273 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ah < 1326302546 434258 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that it is impossible to uhh.. derive life directly from information < 1326302553 881895 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, no, it's because the cell contains stuff which isn't directly coded for. < 1326302557 296889 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: wait are you sure it's undefined? is negative time not allowed? :P < 1326302569 370531 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Generally the signals you use with DSP start at a given time. < 1326302580 290461 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And so don't, in fact, stretch back to the beginning of time. < 1326302594 891834 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Anyway, it's basically the same issues as you get with dynamic event/behaviour switching that have been a large focus of FRP research for ages. < 1326302602 866261 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well... if they're continuous functions they would in most cases... < 1326302603 562361 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course the chances of the authors of this having heard of any of it is ~0. < 1326302610 92794 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Um, no? < 1326302619 675130 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: hm... but is there an order to that uncoded stuff? < 1326302621 946486 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> sin (-1) < 1326302623 179393 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : -0.8414709848078965 < 1326302626 31036 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1326302627 647357 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're an idiot. < 1326302628 617952 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is perfectly valid, for example. < 1326302637 763811 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, "continuous" doesn't mean "with continuous domain". < 1326302661 377885 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is an example of a function that breaks on a negative time value? < 1326302668 229898 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: an input signal?!?! < 1326302675 842041 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, what DSPs are used for? < 1326302676 246884 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, sure, it's the (highly ordered) cell machinery. < 1326302700 149857 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't have to specify an infinite signal history that stretches back to the beginning of time when using a DSP, unless I'm sorely out of date with current audio technology. < 1326302712 124126 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what if i was to have a model with both cell machinery and the genetics of some lifeform < 1326302729 119552 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I think it would be better to just write another combinator that provides a value for negative times or something. < 1326302737 28409 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: input signals would automatically have it applies to them. < 1326302740 517205 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 is a good value... < 1326302743 608667 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :for integers. < 1326302764 514920 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: a curious thing here for me is whether cell machinery varies from species to species < 1326302775 938211 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so basically what you wrote but split up into two functions < 1326302776 489919 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Duh'. < 1326302778 509931 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Or you could not be an idiot, and either incorporate a notion of signal start time or use combinators like my proposed delay. < 1326302781 245825 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because if it does then it may be as unique as genetics < 1326302809 790688 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't se a difference what I said and what you said aside from I proposed that your delay function should be two different functions < 1326302822 649114 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you may want that behavior elsewhere. < 1326302825 559857 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :without a delay. < 1326302831 514465 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which suggests that the emphasis on genetics as a buzz word these days is slightly misleading < 1326302865 342994 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :can lead to a question of, am i human because of my genetics or my cell machinery < 1326302870 460414 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also, you may want to not use a default value for signals that /do/ go back to the beginning of time. < 1326302872 949074 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Because your model makes no damn sense, because your signals are necessarily partial functions (due to having a source signal not defined on negative inputs that you can transform with a default value) yet you somehow think you need more machinery to solve it beyond the delay-without-initial-signal definition already gaining meaning then (disregarding the fact that just making it a partial function is a dumb idea for many reasons) < 1326302878 176671 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, since genetics are what are used to build that machinery, it's not a hugely meaningful distinction. < 1326302882 617485 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohhh < 1326302905 254017 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The problem is that fitting that machinery together /from the genes alone/, without a preëxisting copy of it, is probably impossible. < 1326302918 488811 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and is that because life feeds on life? < 1326302937 343377 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote floored me < 1326302940 675438 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :169) "Europe is the national anthem of the Republic of Kosovo." alise: I I was going to say something then your last line floored me < 1326302961 342508 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it's because life, by and large, tends to be produced by other life. < 1326302961 650247 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry phantom.. all my questions tend towards antagonism in their wording < 1326302976 222114 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I still think it would be a good idea to have both < 1326302982 153085 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and my delay is not partial unless its input is partial. < 1326302995 468550 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: (a) You have no idea what you're talking about. (b) See (a). < 1326303016 532195 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1326303026 373828 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You never have a strand of DNA forming a cell in isolation, from a bootstrap protein coder and some amino acids; you have a cell using its DNA to expand and replicate its existing structures. < 1326303032 13687 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott "good at conversation" hird < 1326303044 23052 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to go conjure money from thin air brb < 1326303049 271612 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Quit: Have stuff I need to do. Be back whenever. < 1326303201 804088 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :part of my view is that even if we could engineer life, i don't think we should < 1326303202 481140 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean like creating sentient beings which are not created from other sentient beings < 1326303203 163312 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sentient? ahh tough word ... just life < 1326303216 390083 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh. homework: prove that delay sin is a partial function. I eagerly await your conclusion. < 1326303232 68397 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically if we could take something which is not life.. and turn it into life through engineering techniques.. we should not do it < 1326303254 15005 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Sorry, I only engage idiots when I'm feeling stupid. < 1326303257 553439 :Nisstyre!~yours@c-208-90-102-250.netflash.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1326303269 607423 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: and yet I am not wrong? < 1326303277 756892 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, what about when something which was not life turned into life of its own accord? < 1326303308 422178 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then thats fine with me :D < 1326303333 957813 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: by your definition map is a partial function because you can pass it a partial function. < 1326303359 517830 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore: ban use of map < 1326303368 262673 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like the sex model of reproduction. sleep together night after night with lots of pleasure, and then one day the woman starts missing her period < 1326303388 856061 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its pretty good < 1326303441 327556 :Nisstyre!~yours@c-208-90-102-250.netflash.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326303469 702823 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nisstyre is fortunate to have been spared that. < 1326303595 507034 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to the extent that there is something called mathematics which is thought about by some and not by others, and that some identify with it, defend it, build it up, ... there is also misconceptions woven into it, mistakes, errors.. all of this is inherent simply because it was done by humans :P < 1326303627 236941 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except for the bits we've computationally verified. < 1326303631 761907 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, it's all proven by naive set theory. < 1326303636 360333 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the views of the mathematician tend to be shaped by the mathematics < 1326303653 93792 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the award for most vacuous statement goes to... < 1326303674 863735 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: but computers are built by people too! < 1326303716 509064 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wish i could more efficiently say the right things without mixing in the wrong things but < 1326303717 891710 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1326303745 400622 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is an inevitable result of specialization that everyone ends up developing thought patterns specialized for some lifestyle < 1326303763 864608 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: if you speak in this channel long enough people will force you to be exact. < 1326303775 525440 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you're well on your way! < 1326303778 793402 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and different people looking at the same un-understandable thing, will inevitably see different thing < 1326303817 367696 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Except for the bits we've computationally verified. < 1326303828 790608 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: But but but, humans made the computer proofsystems too!!!! < 1326303830 884027 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*proof systems < 1326303838 314958 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I know that's what I was saying! < 1326303839 820299 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!!! < 1326303839 977558 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only regret is if you get lazy in your choice of lifestyle < 1326303841 906078 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :WOE BE US, UNABLE TO DO ANYTHING BECAUSE OF COGNITIVE BIASES < 1326303860 422212 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: You say "the only regret" because it's "my only regret", right? < 1326303876 477480 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :im making a prediction < 1326303908 276758 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I like how specifying a negative number in our delay functions produces a future value. < 1326303937 683256 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ok yes :P < 1326303948 737163 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: and also breaks it for finite signals < 1326303957 192150 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: I object to this use of the term "our"; only I've presented a working delay function. < 1326303970 26125 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate the feeling of knowing that my mind tricked me for another day into doing nothing < 1326303979 146903 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :clever mind that it is < 1326303983 507919 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yours is a conditional on top of my delay function, to assist dirty partial functions. < 1326303984 662520 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn you, mind! < 1326303988 809667 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Always tricking my brain! < 1326304006 415850 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Please shut up. < 1326304015 358729 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that's not very nice. < 1326304023 158991 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed. < 1326304026 402673 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1326304051 380415 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so you're just going to be a jerk without explaining yourself? it's a wonder you have any friends. < 1326304058 898934 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dunno what it takes to snap out of it.. whether i need to lose everything i've got before i start to take life seriously < 1326304064 833993 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do; they're considerably less annoying. < 1326304083 397251 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you have friends?!?!? < 1326304083 553438 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. < 1326304089 835281 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326304220 872881 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: On occasion! < 1326304363 895878 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: anyway in kallisti Signal Processing your function is just delay d f g = if' (d < t) f (pureDelay (const d) g) < 1326304437 958943 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: I really don't care. < 1326304529 297529 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1326304557 118773 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :delay d f g = if' (d <) f (pureDelay (const d) g) < 1326304693 188288 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately booleans are not overloadable. :( < 1326304702 442477 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not what if' does. < 1326304706 69233 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know < 1326304708 18912 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not if' if' < 1326304710 758623 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a different if' < 1326304757 760121 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :to conditionally switch between signals based on a control signal < 1326304821 807406 :MSleep!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net NICK :MDude < 1326304922 51515 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-148-19.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326304946 223930 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-222-232.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1326305100 296294 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually instead of < I'd want something like... < 1326305188 732185 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :" The box has a statistics page with byte counters that seem to be saturating 32-bit, because the numbers are stuck at 2147483647. --" <-- actually now some of them have wrapped back down, so maybe it's signed 32-bit with wraparound, and shows 2^31-1 for <0. < 1326305201 678292 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :class SigOrd s where { lt :: s a -> s a -> s Bool; gt :: ... } -- probably doesn't need to be a typeclass < 1326305284 802383 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I think you might be exceeding the design limits. < 1326305303 74267 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Two gigabytes is not really much to download. < 1326305491 938405 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-212-116.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326305494 161428 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-148-19.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1326305541 454878 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :THAT'S LIKE THREE EPISODES OF MY LITTLE PONY < 1326305587 196509 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Package_versioning_policy do people actually follow this? < 1326305589 859660 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote Two gigabytes is not really much to download. THAT'S LIKE THREE EPISODES OF MY LITTLE PONY < 1326305591 992357 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Yes. < 1326305593 67446 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :797) Two gigabytes is not really much to download. THAT'S LIKE THREE EPISODES OF MY LITTLE PONY < 1326305602 30070 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: do people actually not follow this as well? < 1326305638 532541 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most packages follow the PVP. < 1326305654 604984 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :good. everything is as it should be. < 1326305714 189468 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: do you actively provide import lists for all of your import statements to avoid the situation where a package update results in new name clashes? < 1326305737 329312 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1326305743 6759 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't either. :P < 1326305745 799675 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do. < 1326305781 928291 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :granted, there are other good reasons to do that, but most of the time I don't really see a need to. < 1326305806 189201 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :though there's a laziness threshold where, if I'm only using a small number of functions, I'll provide an import list for documentation. < 1326305816 116485 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-234-153.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326305835 703560 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-212-116.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1326306222 635678 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1326306232 164697 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if fourier transform only worked with positive frequencies < 1326306243 105172 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :would it only be able to accurately preserve periodic functions? < 1326306313 625320 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326306320 105113 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or are there combinations of phases that produce non-periodic results? < 1326306456 98784 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually... < 1326306474 958626 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :negative frequencies are equivalent to being "perfectly" out of phase < 1326306561 502792 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... I guess fourier transform would only preserve periodic functions if it only represented natural coefficients (representing positive frequencies) . < 1326306563 505076 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not entirely sure what you mean with "only work with positive frequencies". I mean, if you only specify (complex-valued) F(x) for x >= 0, then... I guess it defines a real-valued function f(x) for all (real) x. Since if you define F(-x) = conj(F(x)) and run that through the usual inverse transform you'll get a purely real f(x). < 1326306572 996846 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, what's that funny quote about causation causing correlation causing the correlation implies causation fallacy? < 1326306609 585375 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: "causation causing correlation causing the correlation implies causation fallacy" -olsner < 1326306618 343829 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if you flip it so that F(-x) = -conj(F(x)) you'll get a purely imaginary f(x). < 1326306625 957028 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no, not that one < 1326306632 841249 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I meant if the fourier series was only positive real parts. < 1326306639 73825 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but now I mean only natural numbers. < 1326306655 688595 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :istr it was more similar to "Causation causes correlation causes correlation causes causation." but that doesn't sound quite right either < 1326306720 412223 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastelog causation < 1326306733 242931 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: basically my question is: what subset of all possible Fourier series represents only periodic functions. < 1326306751 750494 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.25517 < 1326306847 869273 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastelogs causation < 1326306860 474097 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.21658 < 1326306861 683358 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Can't say I'm still quite grokking it. I mean, a Fourier *series*, which has a countable number of coefficients, represents only periodic functions, period. If you have a nonperiodic function, you can take its (continuous) Fourier *transform* instead. < 1326306890 116408 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh nevermind.. < 1326306905 545392 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: don't repaste, just wait a bit and refresh < 1326306911 600746 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1326306918 327818 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: wtf, causation has only been said that few times in here? < 1326306923 627526 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric : correlation correlating with causation is correlated with correlation causing causation, and thus causes correlation to cause causation < 1326306941 867976 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: hmmmm is the fourier transform still a time-varying signal? < 1326307016 866630 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: A Fourier transform of a continuous function with a real argument is a continuous function with a real argument, if that's what you mean. Conventionally the first one is called "time" and the second one is called "frequency", but you're certainly free to call both whatever. < 1326307036 382375 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: didn't I misspell it the first time, since pastelog gave nothing and pastelogs gave me results? < 1326307056 998947 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I'm basically confused as to how a fourier transform can represent a non-periodic signal. < 1326307100 799691 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: the "error: not in manifest" thing is usually just a delay but i dunno what happened there < 1326307102 491376 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/pastelog < 1326307105 525256 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​#!/bin/sh \ cd /var/irclogs/_esoteric \ \ pasterandom() { \ if [ "$1" -gt 150 ]; then \ echo "No." \ exit \ fi \ for i in $(seq "$1"); do \ file=$(shuf -en 1 ????-??-??.txt) \ echo "$file:$(shuf -n 1 $file)" \ done | paste \ } \ \ if [ "$1" ]; then \ if expr "$1" + 0 >/dev/null 2>&1; then \ pasterandom "$1" \ else \ lines=$(grep -P -i -- "$1" < 1326307109 632126 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: S(f) = \int_{-\inf}^{\inf} s(t) * e^{-i*2pi*f*t} dt -- why would s(t) need to be periodic? < 1326307115 204975 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run ls -l bin/pastelog < 1326307118 557384 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​-rwxr-xr-x 1 5000 0 602 Jan 11 18:38 bin/pastelog < 1326307120 23830 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run ls -l bin/pastelogs < 1326307123 418553 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​-rwxr-xr-x 1 5000 0 602 Jan 11 18:38 bin/pastelogs < 1326307129 88375 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1326307130 569515 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I can't read that... < 1326307131 988872 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run diff bin/pastelog{,s} < 1326307135 162620 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1326307141 650913 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: yeah no it's fine < 1326307144 470472 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: oh yes I can < 1326307145 92183 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a glitch < 1326307147 454262 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Anyway, if you *do* apply that to a periodic s(t), then the resulting S(f) is a Dirac comb modulated with a discrete set of coefficients. (The Fourier series coefficients, namely.) < 1326307217 129216 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :so oklopol's sentence was the one I was thinking about but thinking some more about it it seems to mean the opposite of what I expected it to mean < 1326307249 112259 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: so is it because it's an integral and not a summation? < 1326307283 832020 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I'm confused as to how the inverse transform can produce a non-periodic signal, as well. < 1326307389 643976 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: It's just another integral. I seem to recall it's reasonably simple to show that if you stick the "forward transform" inside the inverse transform integral, you'll be left with just the original f(t), with not too many assumptions on f(t). < 1326307432 660929 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: I mean, forward transform has e^{-i...} and inverse transform has e^{i...} with the same "..." in it, and then you just shuffle the integral signs around a bit and hope no mathematicians notice. < 1326307449 738366 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote [...] and then you just shuffle the integral signs around a bit and hope no mathematicians notice. < 1326307452 802496 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :798) [...] and then you just shuffle the integral signs around a bit and hope no mathematicians notice. < 1326307493 269132 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: (If you have a Fourier series instead, the resulting function is periodic, since it's just a sum of complex exponentials.) < 1326307557 7261 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: right so basically I don't understand because I intuitively grasp fourier transform in terms of fourier series, and am really bad at calculus.. < 1326307645 430057 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I NOTICED < 1326307692 62426 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: OH NO. Okay, I'll leave the integral signs in place and just shuffle something in through the "back door" over the dt. < 1326307692 465835 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, so in other words you grasp the Fourier transform as a magic box that turns a function into a series. < 1326307703 87017 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1326307719 707894 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I get all of its components too! < 1326307725 519025 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :like Euler's formula < 1326307732 503289 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :AKA "not grasping the Fourier transform at all". < 1326307732 748125 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and integrals < 1326307744 329000 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, but not how to integrate complex numbers... < 1326307777 642921 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fourier transforms don't require any integration of complex numbers. < 1326307837 980060 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well they require integration of real numbers within complex number functions < 1326307888 83971 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :\int f(x) e^-2pi*i*x*zeta dx = \int (cos e^-2pi*x*zeta + i sin ({...})) = \int cos {...} + i \int sin{...}. < 1326307899 132715 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait. < 1326307899 289445 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Being really bad at calculus is a great position to be in if you want to write signal processing code. < 1326307900 291248 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops. < 1326307929 515823 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah that's still valid even with the f(x). < 1326307959 242217 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: poking fun at people all day in an IRC channel is a great position to be in if you want to lead a fruitful life. < 1326307961 102462 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Just put suitable things in the {...} to compensate. < 1326308014 185061 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Sorry, misread as "that's still valid even without the f(x)" as in "f(x) e^{-2pi*i*x*zeta} = (cos e^{-2pi*x*zeta + i sin ({...})) for any f(x)". < 1326308018 307495 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, just f(x) before the sin and cos. < 1326308038 828067 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PART :#esoteric < 1326308129 67692 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :He could've at least quit first. < 1326308194 828332 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or at least left with a "ragepat" message, that's the convention. < 1326308237 587130 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326308246 536641 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Max SendQ exceeded < 1326308327 637858 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326308443 992831 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti doesn't seem to have realised that the "you're WASTING your LIFE so SAD" angle doesn't really work on IRC. < 1326308464 55095 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :On a programming channel, at that. < 1326308475 556220 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: One expressly dedicated to languages with absolutely no practical use. < 1326308486 983718 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you can read this text, you are wasting your life < 1326308504 843733 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: The blind people in the room thank you. < 1326308526 319521 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that's not how esolangs are defined, is it? < 1326308527 190576 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you can hear this text, you are doubly-wasting your life. (Take that, screenreader users.) < 1326308551 924066 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: BRAILLE DISPLAY < 1326308553 439130 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you can feel this text, you are wasting your life < 1326308554 16118 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :S < 1326308558 131165 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn,. < 1326308559 918955 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh. < 1326308561 975970 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was fast. < 1326308570 646111 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you can smell this text, I don't know what's going on. < 1326308570 802332 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Well, no, but it's practically true. < 1326308576 181765 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: :D < 1326308580 126648 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you can fnarf this text, you are Gregor < 1326308609 483534 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you can taste this text, stop licking your screen. < 1326308624 565965 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you can propriocept this text, wtf? < 1326308685 941764 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you can equilibriocept this text, don't you get seasick in your fancy rotating ball thing, huh? < 1326308688 358836 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :If that were a word, I think it should be "proprioceive". < 1326308689 30855 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you can... balance this text, you used the wrong cables. < 1326308696 270203 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, damn you. < 1326308765 671968 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you couldn't divine this text, you suck at fortune telling < 1326308769 605660 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you can feel this text as pain, you're probably not the only one groaning. < 1326308781 398910 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: You're a proprioceive. < 1326308795 491952 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I'm a noun. < 1326308802 654814 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you can synesthese this text, cool! < 1326308806 370201 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Your MOTHER was a noun. < 1326308809 215860 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you can detect this text with your Golgi organ, you should really see a doctor. < 1326308818 682248 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-234-153.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1326308821 566437 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :inb4 Deewiant complains about my verbing. < 1326308823 61123 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-212-165.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326308864 257882 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you can feel pain in your heart because of the intense predictability of this text, I empathise. < 1326308877 385068 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you can echolocate this text, hello to our dolphin/bat/batman/etc. friends. < 1326308919 711812 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :omg do we have any dolphins in the channel < 1326308966 815193 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're probably just hiding. < 1326308974 793068 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi dolfins :DDDDDDDddddddddd < 1326309170 145174 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that is /why/ they're hiding. < 1326309238 876662 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you can magnetocept this channel, we're sorry for messing up your migration patterns. < 1326309254 16399 :DCliche!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326309348 401478 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326309348 807871 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Changing host < 1326309348 964198 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1326309436 903414 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: "Magnetoception" sounds like a bad one-word pitch for an X-Men film involving nesting or dreams somehow. < 1326309459 180450 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1326309469 101080 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :M A G N E T O C E P T I O N < 1326309539 475402 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had made the mistake of assuming this was a channel about topics in mathematics and computing. I have since corrected that flaw and will now be idle until I can think of ways to belittle others until I feel better about myself. < 1326309568 639839 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, extra-sensory perception is a weird concept... if such perception actually happened, wouldn't that just make it ordinary sensory perception? < 1326309672 161761 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Just so you know, the joining-and-throwing-the-gauntlet-down thing works better if you /quit afterwards. < 1326309768 592698 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, you could go after iti, but he at least acknowledges his ignorance. < 1326309825 550248 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's great is that I don't even have to prove my own point. I can just let people respond and have it proven automatically. < 1326309894 277713 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1326309948 309984 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I think I'm going to have to step down from the Ragepart Professorship of Drama Kingliness. < 1326309951 510067 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not worthy. < 1326309953 141790 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Ragepat < 1326309958 678438 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOW CAN I TYPO A TYPO < 1326310060 77136 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I don't know about that. < 1326310070 507869 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be pretty hard to top the Optbot Incident. < 1326310111 267883 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Like you haven't gotten annoyed about inconsistent op decisions. < 1326310184 292918 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I also haven't made a bot which automatically clobbers the topic twice a day and refused to listen to any complaints. < 1326310277 303793 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I like how you're making this an opportunity to complain about me for some incomprehensible reason? Anyway, I didn't "refuse to listen to complaints", I just found it amusing that the only people who whined about it were people who became active long after it was present for months and entered channel folklore (incl. e.g. being the inspiration for fungot's babble) without a single complaint. < 1326310277 535325 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: mr president, commissioner, and have all approved this text. i would also like to tell the house that, in june of this year, broadly reflect the new political framework for aid to the economic and social cohesion policy. after the speech by the president < 1326310351 235356 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you brought up the topic of your rageparting, and then you went on the offensive the minute I mentioned one of your more notable ones. < 1326310430 77287 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: lol, but seriously fizzie is the one who mentioned ragepatting and I was replying to that, and I'm hardly "on the offensive", I'm just responding when you direct ridiculous comments at me. < 1326310461 951711 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : It would be pretty hard to top the Optbot Incident. ← look at this ridiculous comment. < 1326310464 533144 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look at it. < 1326310472 422240 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, ragepat means ragepaRt? makes more sense now... < 1326310528 268623 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: OK, you're clearly not going to be satisfied no matter what I say, so whatevs < 1326310542 600319 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, clearly. < 1326310545 744303 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's end it now. < 1326310594 260285 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was ending it. < 1326310633 552183 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh! gitweb is doing git archive on everything, for no good reason < 1326310674 319679 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7iuXAQYRcI < 1326310690 765988 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: gitweb offers tarball downloads < 1326310820 926165 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that's not good enough! < 1326310851 271532 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: disable them then < 1326310888 143532 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :but this thing is configured by PERL CODE! < 1326310916 563134 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-156-103.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326310921 309389 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-212-165.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1326311061 939304 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :$feature{'snapshot'}{'default'} = []; < 1326311567 671605 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1326311977 753047 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1326311994 242314 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: you can omit those single quotes, btw. < 1326311999 599761 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1326312014 175250 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326312026 860172 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, ... < 1326312068 185178 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: what? it's a valuable piece of information. < 1326312091 713818 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, you're not very good at ragepatting, are you. < 1326312100 347644 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I went to go pay a thing. < 1326312105 592824 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :with money I conjured out of thin air. < 1326312111 818056 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :from a little machine that gives out money. < 1326312131 417904 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't recall you fixing your rehosting problem. < 1326312132 76729 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :god bless America land of free money* < 1326312141 431089 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(*see terms and conditions) < 1326312159 945871 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: there never was one. < 1326312161 160934 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You reconnected and joined here later. < 1326312174 706887 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that happened once because I don't remember why. < 1326312185 880936 :DCliche!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1326312272 291855 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I can just put elliott on ignore and then have (mostly) a channel that is constructive. < 1326312279 379351 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so no need to quit. < 1326312334 526147 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt he would mind either. < 1326312342 921964 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so much drama < 1326312401 911688 :cheater_!~cheater@178-26-46-133-dynip.superkabel.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :so much drummer < 1326312448 626557 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater_, fuck off. < 1326312450 678818 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326312457 823008 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: hey < 1326312464 541364 :cheater_!~cheater@178-26-46-133-dynip.superkabel.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, fuck on < 1326312466 238206 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi < 1326312483 800342 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION registered for classes < 1326312485 221508 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1326312487 104019 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Nobody ever puts me on /ignore. < 1326312534 138270 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :so much drarmar < 1326312549 322852 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (Or at least, nobody ever puts fungot on /ignore.)S < 1326312549 519393 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or at least, nobody ever puts fungot on /ignore. < 1326312553 195741 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, which classes. < 1326312573 484056 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: hi < 1326312573 640292 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: mr president, the british government to reconsider its view on this rather than the press, newsprint, the printing houses and advertising. in that context insofar as subsidiarity is concerned. < 1326312587 741929 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Virtualization/Cloud Computing", Human Body/Health & Disease, The West and the World < 1326312600 450131 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(+lab for Human Body Health and Disease) < 1326312655 466412 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, I forgot something, blargh < 1326312668 319866 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, forgot to register for UNIX Operating Systems II < 1326312677 484908 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION predicts kallisti's /ignore will last until he needs Haskell help. < 1326312686 487764 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: So much drachma (δραχμή). < 1326312703 67045 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notes that not one of Sgeo's classes are CS. < 1326312722 55083 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notes that there IS no CS at this college < 1326312739 431522 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not taking any CS classes this semester either. < 1326312742 156733 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notes that dude seriously get out as soon as possible FFS < 1326312759 33401 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you count intro to advanced math. < 1326312767 924331 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :where I get learn about COUNTABLE AND UNCOUNTABLE SETS. < 1326312771 846882 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in like... chapter 9. < 1326312784 646342 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has been pondering just graduating with a BS in this BS degree, then doing CS elsewhere < 1326312813 937437 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you get a Ph.D if you're really bad at school? < 1326312829 130772 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt that's even something I want to do. < 1326312833 458809 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, the problem is that your college is terrible enough that nobody will care what you did there. < 1326312850 454961 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: a BS in bullshit? < 1326312855 293058 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, indeed < 1326312897 917903 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should just go get a job instead < 1326312914 468972 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is my plan. < 1326312924 457530 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notes that apparently the readership of the Guardian don't realise that 3 As at A-level does not mean you should be at Oxbridge. < 1326313122 679136 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, I'm going to look for an internship at some point < 1326313156 115731 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :after your brain has rotted to mush at this school of yours? :) < 1326313430 772529 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, how do college admissions even work in the US? < 1326313444 99383 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good question, I don't remember < 1326313454 393385 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :poorly < 1326313457 755708 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1326313464 824014 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Don't be silly, I'm sure his father took care of that. < 1326313469 970625 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely you had to go through the process? < 1326313478 827804 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, yes, in 2008. < 1326313488 518818 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, actually < 1326313497 197572 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: they look at grades and SAT scores mostly. < 1326313503 825373 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was enrolled as non-matriculated for a while at first, then "transferred" in < 1326313504 361054 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and soemtimes you have to write about things. < 1326313507 122454 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :depending on the school < 1326313507 655636 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but what do you actually /do/? < 1326313509 975994 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's basically dependent on each school. < 1326313524 55632 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume you don't have anything as pinko commie as UCAS. < 1326313544 553527 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it can be described as "pinko commie" then no. < 1326313546 212216 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-156-103.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Fill out application form, hand them information they ask for (typically school transcripts, SAT/ACT scores, maybe an essay) < 1326313546 378683 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :we don't have it. < 1326313554 652390 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :anything can be described thus < 1326313560 102606 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a common application accepted by many but not all US schools < 1326313570 437845 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.commonapp.org/ < 1326313580 555384 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :some also require supplemental materials < 1326313585 138749 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, so you could apply to an indefinite number of colleges? < 1326313595 41380 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-156-103.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have the patience, yes. < 1326313595 591238 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure. there are fees usually. < 1326313648 991505 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, did you even *try* to get into anywhere other than Farmingdale? < 1326313658 872844 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also some states have common applications < 1326313661 980551 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, no. < 1326313663 875948 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :for their public school systems < 1326313676 538678 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :like you apply to all the University of California schools at once < 1326313688 517973 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just say which ones you are interested in < 1326313705 399416 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1326313712 387033 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hey < 1326313716 852457 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :evening < 1326313792 463127 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Hey, he aimed high. You're the one applying to Cambridge! < 1326313834 260923 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :cambridge isn't high? < 1326313874 637189 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously not, if dead household appliances can apply. < 1326313902 224158 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yes, so Phantom_Hoover's a hypocrite. < 1326313910 988306 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's just jealous of Farmingdale students. < 1326313950 915426 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do they have hills there there aren't any hills in cambridge it scares me < 1326313957 390404 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just 180 degrees of sky < 1326313959 48549 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUGS < 1326313959 762350 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Numbered backupfile creation might have problems if the filename (not the backup number) contains the first six digits of the speed of light (in m/s) < 1326313980 692113 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://search.cpan.org/~rgiersig/Tie-Persistent-1.00/Persistent.pm < 1326314017 365921 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why < 1326314039 203887 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea. < 1326314230 78672 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl use Tie::File < 1326314233 591889 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1326314265 927782 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl tie @arr, 'Tie::File', 'foo.txt' or die < 1326314266 534216 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't locate object method "TIEARRAY" via package "Tie::File" at /tmp/input.30334 line 1. < 1326314279 539976 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl use Tie::File; tie @arr, 'Tie::File', 'foo.txt' or die < 1326314280 767975 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Died at /tmp/input.30398 line 1. < 1326314826 312035 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326314840 700720 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1326315318 153702 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1326315338 337700 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: ey < 1326315340 340294 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :+h < 1326315350 797198 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How are you, kallisti? < 1326315351 587759 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326315382 94447 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: not bad. working on programming stuff as usual. < 1326315395 899811 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1326315450 44448 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did I mention that during my General Studies exam I temporarily exchanged my phone for a raffle ticket labelled "128"? < 1326315604 916427 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`frink c -> m/s < 1326315616 993721 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :299792458 < 1326315635 863116 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`frink c -> yards/s < 1326315648 572659 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :374740572500/1143 (approx. 3.278570188101487e8) < 1326315651 697713 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, you mean they had a phone exchange system? < 1326315666 698024 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, precisely. < 1326315685 224061 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(hahahaha general studies) < 1326315705 376937 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they just give you back the phone you gave them, without bothering to even exchange them < 1326315717 830050 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(school put us all in, too much effort to bother to opt out) < 1326315754 491060 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: lucky you won it back < 1326315769 671454 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, nah, there're better prizes < 1326315801 867937 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1326315966 426078 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, like an A-level in General Studies! < 1326315969 892318 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoops no that's worthless < 1326316000 691512 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I fell asleep during the exam < 1326316005 467966 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And now I will brb < 1326316050 640 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is irritated by windows update slowing his google searches to a halt. < 1326316087 74520 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means i cannot find out which car brand they use for second prizes in jokes these days. (first prize: fruit basket) < 1326316110 63629 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, in the uk. < 1326316176 863462 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1326316184 887510 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326316190 193594 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess tata nano or something < 1326316288 608885 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION puts his joke dissection scalpel in the ...dammit i'd have to google for that too < 1326316296 363969 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1326316317 101414 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :autoclave < 1326316337 103129 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION actually remembered it without googling < 1326316373 986187 :DeadlyFugu!~matt@220.247.179.25 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326316408 966413 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no TOPIC #esoteric :We apologize for the recent topic change delay | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1326316532 661625 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Ye olde reboot request < 1326316715 324511 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :We don't really have notable hills at WaveU, but that's all right; we don't have hills in the whole country either. (Okay, there's a hill-alike (an I-can't-believe-it's-not-a-hill?) but it's off to the side of most things; and there's a bit of an incline at the east-side sea-shore.) < 1326316772 468845 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1326316825 920799 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, aaaaand Finland is off the list of places to visit. < 1326316860 939371 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: There's some hills up there in the north, but they're not much to speak of. < 1326316894 712357 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so im not the only one running windows < 1326316898 734201 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :come to hilly norway < 1326316907 837531 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also chilly < 1326316936 959980 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, OK, when we get rid of Sweden, maybe we can give you its hills? < 1326316947 791879 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sweden has hills? < 1326316950 421170 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :come to australia, we have deserts, surf beaches, snow capped mountains, forests < 1326316951 558502 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: "c?hilly". < 1326316956 106327 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: More than we do. < 1326316956 927467 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I walk uphill every time I travel to and from school, I don't know what you're talking about. < 1326317015 24524 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I don't know what hill that is. I mean, there's a bit of a hump at the library, and then the hill-alike which I mentioned which is at the student village side, and I suppose there's some sort of a thing towards that water tower but who goes *there*? < 1326317040 600105 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I sure hope you've already discounted Denmark, though? http://satwcomic.com/highest-points < 1326317041 709885 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And thus fizzie finds out exactly where Deewiant lives < 1326317071 669284 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: I'd've assumed the student village, but he said he's in Helsinki somewhere. < 1326317093 829631 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Unless you mean "uphill" from the Lehtisaari side? < 1326317105 249340 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't. < 1326317122 665493 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover won't visit a place unless it has hills? < 1326317138 500002 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does walking up a long staircase from underground count as going uphill? < 1326317139 970624 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except in exceptional circumstances. < 1326317152 450918 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1326317200 462267 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is a place in Hexham called "Windmill Hill" < 1326317221 564099 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And another called "Causey hill" < 1326317240 864492 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, now that I think of it, there is indeed some bumpiness near the Dipoli area there. It's just that my "grounds" (around the CS building) are rather flat. < 1326317245 26740 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's mostly just parking places. < 1326317252 852755 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The street I live on even has "mountain" in its name. < 1326317275 519235 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Edinburgh has Seven Hills, but nobody can agree on what they are < 1326317294 725777 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like Rome and Istanbul! < 1326317327 161816 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But some people cannot agree on the splitting of the Ten Commandments either. < 1326317339 771800 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Vuorimiehenkatu? Punavuorenkatu? (I've lived there!) Okay, I'm just guessworking here. < 1326317397 626447 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Going to iterate through all the possibilities? :-P < 1326317422 417259 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Not unless you're going to say #t to one. < 1326317447 850132 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I was born we lived at Tarkk'ampujankatu, lit. "marksman's street", yet I (probably) can't shoot worth a thing. < 1326317479 715205 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's marksman as in sharpshooter, I don't really know which term is proper. < 1326317523 427115 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-200-79.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326317563 880674 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a street in Edinburgh called Princes street, which confuses everyone. < 1326317564 373206 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :And now you're on some kind of "flatland street" with no hills anywhere? < 1326317568 243145 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Korkeavuorenkatu? No, then you'd probably have said "high mountain" or something. Hmm. < 1326317580 110738 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-156-103.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1326317609 72922 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: No, actually I'm on a hill right now. Ohhhhh, were you protesting my "no hills in the country" statement instead of the "no hills at WaveU" one? < 1326317663 627846 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that was mostly it. At least the economical WaveU has a bit of a hill going on, too, though. < 1326317687 418588 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really mentally consider those WaveUs yet. < 1326317730 219105 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :And there is that dipoli business, although it's not particularly WaveU in my opinion. < 1326317765 906758 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :WaveU? < 1326317907 520307 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Where can I find a good topographical map? I want to know how high my hill is. Karttapaikka used to have different maps, but apparently no longer; there's contour lines but no labels in it. Espoo's map service doesn't have one either; nor Eniro. < 1326317924 386772 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was some place, it even had heights of buildings and all. < 1326317931 411615 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Google Earth? < 1326317934 947915 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :where can I get a large volume of compositions in a machine-readable format including non-note annotations like legato, comments, etc < 1326317951 100179 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/bin/googleearth: 14: /usr/lib/googleearth/googleearth-bin: not found < 1326317955 522120 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoops, it has borkened. < 1326317966 851956 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :as well as performances of said compositions. < 1326317973 394005 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Google maps as well, evidently. < 1326317983 37048 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use the Cloud. < 1326317988 362038 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that I can, say, analyze what happens when sheet music says "legato" < 1326318041 645805 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I don't know what that means. I know it has the "terrain" map, but can it also tell heights? < 1326318064 279291 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use that Minecraft scale model. < 1326318079 283961 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assumed it could but it seems as though not, after all. < 1326318105 892467 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@where faq < 1326318106 295490 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/FAQ < 1326318109 80819 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :distant future goal: write a Haskell program that accurately plays Gymnopedie No. 1 by Erik Satie, with the same style and pacing. < 1326318113 584045 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION just testing < 1326318118 161199 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, that walk-and-bicycle reittiopas plots a height-graph for routes, I can try that. Though there are no roads over the top of the hill. :/ < 1326318137 386786 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: You can order one from maanmittauslaitos.fi. < 1326318192 372065 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: "Yay." (Also, wasn't there a recent decision that Maanmittauslaitos can/has to release more map data freely starting from some-date-in-the-future?) < 1326318209 921164 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dunno. < 1326318246 146052 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, the walk/bicycle route thing says I start from +38m, and then drop down to +2m (presumably from sea level) when going from home to WaveU. < 1326318251 343510 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you have a GPS device? < 1326318290 387121 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I guess that's good enough. < 1326318301 620749 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It probably gets the order of magnitude right. < 1326318327 812546 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I guess 40 metres counts as a hill. (The top is probably ten metres or so higher up still.) < 1326318393 219917 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm only at +27m. < 1326318448 241779 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :And WaveU appears to be at +7m? < 1326318571 188678 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Quit: goodnight < 1326318697 738788 :DeadlyFugu!~matt@220.247.179.25 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1326319023 152052 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1326319784 873843 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Munkkivuoren puistotie? Siltavuorenpenger? I'm grasping at straws here. (Sorry, had to empty a waiting laundry machine.) < 1326319813 378752 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope you're checking that those are at +27m. < 1326319845 862764 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, and I don't think e.g. Munkkivuoren puistotie is. < 1326319880 366241 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or could it be just Vuorikatu? That'd be dastardly. < 1326319908 257496 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, sorry, I'm not that dastardly. < 1326320436 64686 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You mentioned the subway recently, maybe I should look near the stations; though sadly I don't know anything about the streets east of Sörnäinen. Vilhonvuorenkatu? Kulmavuorenkatu? Tupavuori? Sorsavuorenkatu? Vuorenpeikontie? (Yes, yes.) Roihuvuorentie? Oh no, the subway *branches*. < 1326320446 115714 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll be back to check the heights of all these when I have some free time. < 1326320513 160230 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe I'll just give up; what's the point of any of this, anyway? < 1326320532 916133 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, why on earth are you making me do this? This is stupef. I quit. < 1326320538 478369 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're an anorak < 1326320683 474983 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't that some sort of a jacket? < 1326320725 89334 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I submit that I wasn't making you do anything. < 1326320726 838205 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :precisely < 1326320737 838311 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Implicitly. < 1326320742 563388 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hmm < 1326320750 691210 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I can give you your #t now. < 1326320772 536224 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, then I'll feel justified in stopping. < 1326320791 327635 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :an anorak is a term for someone who wears an anorak due to their fairly specific hobby < 1326320825 422448 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it is something llike going out to the piers with a shortwave radio and listening in on ships broadcasts < 1326320841 518779 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not entirely sure < 1326320860 537242 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was getting them confused with trainspotters when i said it < 1326320913 527470 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ive probably muddled up my facts somewhere in it < 1326320945 976954 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this a global term or just something you do? < 1326320964 158643 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, not "you" personally. < 1326320974 716826 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :But a regional group of people. < 1326320976 366414 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or something. < 1326320998 875398 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently it is a well-established thing. < 1326321002 406836 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The more you know, I guess. < 1326321021 548057 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should've followed the "Anorak (Slang)" disambig link when I was at the Anorak page the first time. < 1326321036 248642 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :British slang, they say. < 1326321038 260508 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is the "monoidal monad" article in Wikipedia, are the second and third formulas like a applicative functor (where the morphisms being equal is like pure = return)? Is there any relation to Cartesian closed categories? < 1326321074 306920 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION → sleep < 1326321079 896447 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1326321272 514547 :KingOfKarlsruhe!~nice@p5B1316A0.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1326321502 526121 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does a Kleisli category have its own monads? < 1326322015 913335 :cheater_!~cheater@178-26-46-133-dynip.superkabel.de QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1326322635 725697 :Patashu!Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1326322720 491863 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl sub test {return (1,2);}; print test{1} < 1326322721 28544 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :12 < 1326322727 82116 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl sub test {return (1,2);}; print (test{1}) < 1326322727 754201 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :12 < 1326322730 292156 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1326322739 538894 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl sub test {return (a=>b);}; print (test{a}) < 1326322740 280804 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ab < 1326322743 49315 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1326322755 556284 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl sub test {return (a=>b);}; print ((test){a}) < 1326322756 134791 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :syntax error at /tmp/input.10384 line 1, near "){" \ Execution of /tmp/input.10384 aborted due to compilation errors. < 1326322910 815912 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t Kleisli < 1326322911 809702 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a (m :: * -> *) b. (a -> m b) -> Kleisli m a b < 1326322987 657652 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :eta :: Kleisli m a (T a); mu :: Kleisli m (T (T a)) a < 1326323036 710864 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*eta :: Kleisli m a (T a); mu :: Kleisli m (T (T a)) (T a) < 1326323043 321602 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :tha latter isomorphic to T (T a) -> m (T a) < 1326323074 891726 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the former a -> m (T a) < 1326323094 322083 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :which looks a bit like a transformer < 1326323121 869857 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: maybe monad transformers give monads in the kleisli category? < 1326323188 728948 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe T itself just needs to be a monad < 1326323232 293853 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :eta = return . return; mu = return . join < 1326323494 389197 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I thought about that still I don't know < 1326324237 979899 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`perl @{undef} < 1326324241 783665 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't open perl script "@{undef}": No such file or directory < 1326324246 873214 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl @{undef} < 1326324247 410781 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1326324272 557549 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl use strict; @{undef} < 1326324273 229029 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Global symbol "@undef" requires explicit package name at /tmp/input.13293 line 1. \ Execution of /tmp/input.13293 aborted due to compilation errors. < 1326324277 946231 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh lol < 1326324283 66848 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl use strict; @{+undef} < 1326324283 643953 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't use an undefined value as an ARRAY reference at /tmp/input.13351 line 1. < 1326324331 740347 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could probably still win the D&D game with only half as much power points. < 1326324428 54607 :DeadlyFugu!~matt@220.247.179.25 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326324756 366290 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : Sgeo: I'm rapidly becoming sure you don't understand how locks work <-- maybe he's actually a talking dog < 1326324779 25477 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm elliott deficiency < 1326324785 423351 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wonder it was silent < 1326324792 613844 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :locks are used for closing something so so hard that you need a whole key to open it < 1326324829 94258 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what topology lacks < 1326324833 15345 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :keys and locks :o < 1326324837 624395 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ic < 1326324849 768562 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :you do? < 1326325063 289001 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can confirm i don't recall any keys or locks in topology < 1326325337 975115 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :math has been overwhelmingly awesome this week < 1326325342 352072 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's scary < 1326325432 800976 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: the universe is probably balancing out the collapse of my ZipList monad definition < 1326325454 48111 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i didn't say i've actually succeeded in anything < 1326325473 397693 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :although sofar, i've managed to stick to my at least one result a day policy this year < 1326325795 182497 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :although today's results were rather silly. but i may just have the awesomest conjecture < 1326325803 961296 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :let X be a zero-entropy subshift < 1326325815 210643 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :then X is totally disconnected in the Weyl topology < 1326325819 839895 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : Wow, a drug which is literally the mirror image of another drug by the same company. <-- someone should point out that mirroring organic molecules can give something with completely different effects. < 1326325887 524247 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :where the distance of two points is given by for each n taking the n-block where they have maximal difference a_n, and then taking lim sup of a_n/n < 1326325923 242973 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is not true for the related Besicovitch topology where instead of maximizing difference of n-blocks you take this at the origin < 1326325933 629269 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note that the origin still doesn't actually play any sort of role) < 1326325951 358499 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-200-79.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1326325956 580162 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I was under the impression that didn't need to be pointed out due to obviousness. < 1326325960 295313 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-227-50.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326326024 303683 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: well the discussion sounded like people were assuming mirroring a drug was a trivial change < 1326326052 883480 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"mirroring organic molecules can give something with completely different effects." i don't even believe this so i don't think it's obvious < 1326326111 747337 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: well, it's true. < 1326326235 20245 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but WHY? < 1326326261 341769 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because CHEMISTRY. < 1326326284 952773 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :because nearly all cell machinery is built with only one handedness, and so only will interact with the handedness version they are evolved to interact with < 1326326292 894471 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*version of molecules < 1326326316 996501 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh you didn't mean that EVERY molecule of the drug is flipped? < 1326326330 124097 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :um yes. < 1326326346 412919 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i mean < 1326326356 214568 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's obvious that it will work differently on a human < 1326326372 100119 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you flip him < 1326326377 291757 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :won't it be the same drug? < 1326326401 333425 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, probably, but the supply of flipped humans is remarkably low. < 1326326420 354159 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's an Asimov (IIRC) story about a flipped human. < 1326326434 800467 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :He has problems digesting, if I recall correctly. < 1326326443 641319 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :to me that sounds like an excuse for being able to patent the same thing twice. < 1326326452 604314 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it might not be altogether factually accurate. < 1326326459 878726 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: not to mention being LEFT-HANDED < 1326326473 294342 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: but it won't have the same effect on a human, so why should they be equivalent patents? < 1326326474 407028 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :dear god. < 1326326505 259756 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm < 1326326511 32417 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have to think about this < 1326326522 399671 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean < 1326326538 988953 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chirality_(chemistry)#In_biology < 1326326593 69137 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's say there's a drug that works just like aspirin, except that a permutation f is built between humans such that it actually works on you (x) like aspirin would've worked on f(x) < 1326326613 746090 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course i suppose the situation is a bit different < 1326326614 939228 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :more like < 1326326625 847944 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :a bijection is built between humans and stones < 1326326641 269905 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay so maybe you win for now < 1326326655 607149 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION victory dance < 1326326656 621033 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh no, it's the glove example (in Wikipedia). < 1326326715 630894 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also I've been told that d-LSD, which does stuff to people, has a stereoisomer l-LSD, which does not do anything. (But I doubt there are patent issues there.) < 1326326807 628789 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the best description of lsd i've ever heard < 1326326855 533052 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :A totally pure salt of LSD will emit small flashes of white light when shaken in the dark.[5] LSD is strongly fluorescent and will glow bluish-white under UV light. < 1326326856 955061 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::O < 1326326880 945189 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :lsd must be the second coming of fucking jesus o_O < 1326326939 358880 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also you can hear God's voice if you put some in your ear. (Not true.) < 1326326996 24107 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think you'd hear a lot of things < 1326327068 563833 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was probably thinking of that seashell/ocean thing there. < 1326327223 276719 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, update < 1326328121 274701 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is why I say they should abolish patents < 1326328578 15448 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done next recording of D&D game. < 1326328636 213382 :DeadlyFugu!~matt@220.247.179.25 PART #esoteric :"Leaving" < 1326328658 252065 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think to understand patents you have to understand that investors need a way to protect their investments to avoid the investment market reducing to lowest common denominator of some kind < 1326328674 102766 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think patent system is nothing more than investment protection < 1326328686 950414 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no TOPIC #esoteric :Now with itidus21's patented random topic destroyer | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1326328709 442972 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was a topic? < 1326328711 636565 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The patent system still needs to be adjusted a lot, even if they do not abolish it entirely. But my opinion is it should be abolished. < 1326328756 850050 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: yes, it said "We apologize for the recent topic change delay | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/" < 1326328804 301166 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well recently i have heard about a flood of new laws in usa all of which are terrifying < 1326328836 84925 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think there is any hope for someone who isn't a cog in a corporation < 1326328913 115053 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no TOPIC #esoteric :New US law banning itidus21's patented random topic destroyer | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1326328918 504063 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 such danger which i guess is not a law is some items that were in public domain being pushed back into the non-public domain < 1326328925 235298 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it's best to nip this in the bud < 1326328942 366488 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: How does that work? < 1326328970 913206 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :another is the thing about how us military can now take you away if they want to < 1326328983 528712 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think.. i dunno if that one is gone though < 1326328994 139872 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then again theres SOPA.. i dunno much about that, probably going through < 1326329002 942807 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :They are certainly seems dumb laws < 1326329015 835027 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dunno how factual i am being since i dont research well < 1326329035 422815 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, theres also some business about changing the way the patent system works drastically < 1326329085 563648 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then, hopefully they will correct it instead of making it stupid a second time. < 1326329100 607010 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha ha ha < 1326329112 723491 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it's obvious that humanity is doomed anyway so who gives a fuck < 1326329115 358769 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heard recently theyre looking into some kind of nicotine patch equivalent for marijuana using a mouth spray based on cannabis for helping addicts, after it was useed to help multiple sclerosis.. not sure about this either < 1326329118 65371 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But they probably don't know how to correct it < 1326329143 194992 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: cannabis addiction? no such thing. < 1326329148 544626 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not in the same way as nicotine. < 1326329161 980200 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't belive in nicotine addiction < 1326329177 996826 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've been smoking half a pack a day for half a year and i don't have one < 1326329194 116117 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION actually quit smoking cigars recently. < 1326329203 740478 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still smoke hookah occasionally but it's pretty much neglible to my health. < 1326329206 782789 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :like once a week at most. < 1326329212 293236 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lately it's been like a month. < 1326329214 923026 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also.. in nigeria there was some kind of thing that 200,000 polio vaccinations contained some kind of stuff which can lead to problems giving birth < 1326329233 772711 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just find random bits of troubling news i think < 1326329248 212467 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a smoking addiction, obviously. it's a fun way to pass time. but i don't actually feel anything if i skip a day or two. i just occasionally think i wish i had an excuse to go outside. < 1326329376 958178 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :same for caffeine addiction, but caffeine at least feels like a drug, nicotine doesn't even seem to have any sort of effect on me. i tried snus but it doesn't do anything. < 1326329411 123987 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for smoking, the first cigarette of the day feels nice, after that it's just an excuse to walk a bit and go outside. < 1326329417 328457 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :nicotine is comparable to heroin in terms of addictive potential < 1326329426 438566 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :cannabis, on the other hand, is incapable of creating a physical dependence. < 1326329433 156062 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see what a patch would accomplish < 1326329438 987388 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :aside from being another source of THC for someone to take. < 1326329461 243777 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well apparently they're able to take out the THC a bit or something < 1326329469 551798 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i assume it feels nice because you don't get as much oxygen as you need if you smoke passionately. < 1326329473 464146 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you get a bit dizzy < 1326329486 610260 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :snus doesn't have this, and probably for this reason never feels like anything < 1326329486 879839 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: that's part of it < 1326329491 182929 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get crazy light-headed when I smoke hookah < 1326329501 397305 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you take deep hits < 1326329530 69201 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but do you agree with my opinion on nicotine addiction? (that it's impossi) < 1326329532 80357 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ble < 1326329557 880350 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. < 1326329566 20136 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_>? < 1326329571 992781 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-227-50.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Science has demonstrated that nicotine addiction is not merely possible but highly probable with nicotine intake. < 1326329592 859851 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is it just me? or is the usual way to feel nicotine addiction that you feel (as always) that you need something to do with your hands, and nicotine addiction brings the memory to your brain that smoking gives something to do with them? < 1326329596 790983 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: No, but I agree that you have smoking addiction but not nicotine addiction, maybe? < 1326329629 335449 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i have no idea what any sort of physical addiction is supposed to feel like. < 1326329638 952731 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: like that. < 1326329686 353061 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :then i have a physical addiction to sex, nicotine, occasionally alcohol, to math, to going to work, to my computer, and pretty much to anything that i occasionally want to do. < 1326329689 283572 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not going to feel unpleasant. or strange. your brain isn't going to make you think "oh I want nicotine". it just becomes a habit regardless of how it's rationalized. < 1326329714 495020 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: sure. some of those things are reasonable statements. < 1326329723 786650 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so obviously cannabis is just as addictive as tobacco < 1326329729 856481 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm... < 1326329730 298347 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1326329750 462572 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a distinct difference between a normal habit and a physical addiction to a substance. < 1326329751 627769 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it actually does something to you, so you might want to avoid it when, say, at work. < 1326329755 910851 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose, different people are affected in different way < 1326329768 703388 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i don't get it < 1326329771 357390 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, it is the difference! Sometimes. < 1326329779 331827 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: uh, sure. that's irrelevant to the conversation. < 1326329812 206 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually i suppose i don't have a physical addiction to sex < 1326329828 725132 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :because i actually feel that i need to have sex occasionally (90 times a day) < 1326329832 25281 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor food < 1326329854 31841 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor the computer, really < 1326329860 592273 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i specifically feel i want to use the computer < 1326329869 618244 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i never specifically feel i want to smoke < 1326329879 322031 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i could just as well buy an energy drink or a cola < 1326329883 22421 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just costs way more < 1326329887 582739 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and isn't nicotine. < 1326329904 183514 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well note that i often do just buy another energy drink < 1326329912 161425 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then i don't need to smoke for another 3 hours. < 1326329915 18197 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :then i have another choice < 1326329944 72755 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so really smoking and caffeine are my only physical addictions, the only ones that i can just change for anything else to do with my hands. < 1326329945 589167 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously I think you're probably in some stage of denial about it. It's not controversial opinion that nicotine has similar addictive potential to other highly addictive drugs such as morphene and heroin. < 1326329983 956070 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i haven't tried heroin, but if it's as awesome as it sounds i doubt i could continue my life without retrying it every now and then. < 1326329986 276092 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I smoked for several months and could immediately notice that I was addicted. < 1326330029 145691 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :also when it's cold outside i don't smoke, i fill a bottle of water and drink it. < 1326330056 102054 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :two of the most addictive and detrimental substances to humanity are perfectly legal. < 1326330061 218167 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric : anyway, theres also some business about changing the way the patent system works drastically -- After six years, Congress is once again considering Patent Reform legislation in the form of the America Invents Act (S. 23). At the heart of the bill is a shift from a first-to-invent to first-inventor-to-file system. < 1326330121 454782 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric : then again theres SOPA.. i dunno much about that, probably going through -- The originally proposed bill would allow the U.S. Department of Justice, as well as copyright holders, to seek court orders against websites accused of enabling or facilitating copyright infringement. < 1326330130 412374 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there nicotine-free cigarettes? < 1326330143 192865 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1326330144 950927 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess that would be the easiest way to check < 1326330146 441212 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :herbal cigarettes and such. < 1326330162 377222 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also "e-cigarettes" which are basically just vaporizers. they're healthier but more expensive. < 1326330177 604045 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric : heard recently theyre looking into some kind of nicotine patch equivalent for marijuana -- http://www.news-medical.net/news/20120110/Now-cannabis-mouth-spray-to-help-e28098pote28099-addicts-quit.aspx < 1326330187 913000 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes < 1326330191 752570 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also you can roll your own cigarettes or smoke out of a pipe, which has fewer additives. It's still bad for you though. But much cheaper and slightly less harmful. < 1326330220 669073 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : fizzie: I'm confused as to how the inverse transform can produce a non-periodic signal, as well. < 1326330232 272025 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: I can't take anything seriously when it says "pot addicts" < 1326330254 391528 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric : also.. in nigeria there was some kind of thing that 200,000 polio vaccinations contained some kind of stuff which can lead to problems giving birth -- http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/archive/ldn/2004/mar/04031101 < 1326330282 296028 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: i've heard that heroin addicts start shaking and stuff if they don't get heroin < 1326330296 21262 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've also heard this about nicotine, but that's obviously not true < 1326330297 498897 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-227-50.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, they're actually making an Ender's Game film. Should I be horrified preemptively? < 1326330301 21066 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and caffeine < 1326330348 354662 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: it's definitely exaggerated a bit in movies, for example. but yes there are withdrawal symptoms of both heroin and nicotine... < 1326330357 31732 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean why the fuck is it called physical addiction if there are absolutely no physical signs o_O < 1326330364 912780 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_> < 1326330366 521345 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :<_< < 1326330385 109232 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-227-50.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, caffeine's withdrawal symptoms tend to be in the form of headaches. < 1326330388 223555 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: perhaps you should try heroin, then. < 1326330392 842356 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: you realize that if a/b is irrational, then e^(iat) + a^(ibt) is not periodic? :) < 1326330400 624647 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1326330405 639703 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: i just said i would probably never want to give that up < 1326330408 53089 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol a/b is irrational < 1326330411 156158 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :how would that be a good choice for me? < 1326330411 420727 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*e^(iat) + e^(ibt) < 1326330429 76386 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: no I did not know that. < 1326330577 67215 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hth then < 1326330584 606557 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really... < 1326330595 475820 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just something I'll need to learn when i have some time. < 1326330609 831247 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: well it shows you can get non-periodic functions even with two terms < 1326330611 221519 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :numbers are trivial, you should learn symbolic dynamics instead < 1326330641 572387 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I didn't know that either, but now I know < 1326330660 922174 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: the fact that non-periodic functions are trivial to produce doesn't really explain to me how frequency domain can translate to non-periodic time domain. < 1326330738 335558 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: can you sic e^(iat) + a^(ibt)? < 1326330746 372183 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: wat < 1326330749 728996 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(sic) < 1326330771 663980 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1 such danger which i guess is not a law is some items that were in public domain being pushed back into the non-public domain -- Works from certain countries that were in the public domain because they didnt comply with formalities of US law (like notice and renewal requirements), or because they were published in countries that didnt have copyright relations with the US (like the S < 1326330772 183840 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oviet Union before 1973) had their copyrights restored on January 1, 1996. < 1326330798 164242 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: I'm going to get oerjan to ban you due to excessive self-quoting. < 1326330819 699291 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you can sic it, then i suppose i understand your confusion even if you don't know what sic means. as i'm sure you do, i suppose you can sic it. < 1326330840 434707 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: guess what i'm going to do now btw :D < 1326330845 749199 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: i know what (sic) means, but why should i put it on something i already corrected < 1326330863 478281 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: because i wanted to know that was correct < 1326330867 678605 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1326330869 685786 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :! < 1326330873 616231 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, i missed that line. < 1326330881 536863 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i won't learn < 1326330883 858275 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :now i understand all kinds of thing. < 1326330887 549980 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay! < 1326330936 359243 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: i suppose the other is also correct if a/(b ln a) is irrational < 1326330981 865028 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was gonna say i have no idea, but actually i now realize you're talking about trivial stuffs. < 1326330998 283913 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe if i must rant i should do it by pastebin < 1326330998 969243 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :EXCELLENT < 1326331011 22434 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: or on the channel < 1326331027 745098 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :only everyone except me is annoyed, so who gives a fuck < 1326331072 902766 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you sure everyone except you is annoyed? < 1326331077 943693 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really < 1326331090 700547 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm the only one actively unannoyed though. < 1326331109 18577 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :some of you just stand in a list and keep your mouths shut < 1326331110 86741 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not annoyed by it either < 1326331122 57312 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :you must be immune < 1326331195 657936 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think the effect in law is similar to the effect in technology where progress in technology doesn't lead to diminished labor rates < 1326331205 329848 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or maybe slightly it does im not sure) < 1326331223 882324 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in the same way more laws doesn't bring more and more fairness or justice < 1326331240 668796 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-227-50.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: Funny, progress in technology seems to have lead to significantly diminished actual labor rates, just not time-spent-"working" rates. :P < 1326331246 703169 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : If you can read this text, you are wasting your life <-- NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO < 1326331267 231693 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you think the current way of catching errors from pure functions in Haskell is not good way and could be made a better way? < 1326331294 215511 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in other words, all these laws that get introduced year after year don't make anything any better < 1326331307 440128 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe its a very wrong and cynical view < 1326331341 646385 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :after all.. capital punishment is being outlawed many places.. = good.. < 1326331399 250955 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :if half of humanity was randomly slaughtered, the rest of us would have twice as much money < 1326331400 673037 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :They are I/O exceptions but it seems not quite right. Better way, in my opinion, would be, have a macro make a function into I/O action with specified strictifying and those one can be made caught exceptions. < 1326331403 526850 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :though < 1326331466 113851 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND cows. < 1326331471 372771 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: that makes a complete mockery of referential transparency < 1326331473 406961 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :we could all make our own milk :o < 1326331739 766920 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Is current way better or worse? I think it should be made with a macro, but current way they depend a lot on evaluation and means you can define something in terms of not defined seem wrong to me < 1326332114 186507 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: i don't know what to say but it would be a fundamentally different language. < 1326332213 652223 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :you fundamentalists are all the same < 1326332264 819392 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Are you sure? Current way seems not mathematically correct to me? < 1326332453 65685 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: it has a mathematical foundation in the imprecise exception theory. that may not be ideal. but your way changes a much _more_ fundamental property of haskell, one which it was designed to explore. < 1326332661 221819 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seem to me, not only is not mathematically correct, but also can cause other problems too, such as strictness analysis and some other things < 1326332676 889810 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Can you describe better please? < 1326332725 267198 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, i don't know the details of the theory. < 1326332788 491140 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want auditory hallucinations specifically you should take diisopropyltryptamine < 1326332822 348442 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also auditory distortions like nonlinear pitch shift and "flanging" < 1326332826 19229 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Is it enough just to listen to someone trying to pronounce it? < 1326332900 391854 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1326332940 656218 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION realises that's probably "di-iso-", not "diiso" pronounced as in Finnish. < 1326332945 440902 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :correct :) < 1326332982 393686 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also pot addiction is a real thing, but it affects small minority of people who take pot ever < 1326333002 857797 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can become addicted to pretty much any sensation or activity < 1326333005 704611 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :some draw the distinction between physical addiction and psychological addiction < 1326333018 574344 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know the field well enough to know if this distinction makes sense or if it's bullshit dualism < 1326333048 849031 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, but what would the money be worth < 1326333067 565733 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's weight in fucking money that's what < 1326333305 932929 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1326333566 688679 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: ah but most money is electronical these days < 1326333621 109695 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose an addiction can only feel "physical" to things that are evolutio...narily (?) useful to have as addictions. for instance i have a very physical need to do pull-ups every day.. < 1326333631 879330 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :*-. < 1326333661 891617 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or things that subvert evolved systems < 1326333689 144268 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose, but i can't come up with such < 1326333708 813959 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :cocaine, heroin, etc < 1326333720 818830 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i would probably take my cast out of the bank the day everyone i know is slaughtered < 1326333737 14919 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: i hear heroin = nicotine in terms of addiction < 1326333743 245204 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... obviously not < 1326333770 261994 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :cocaine is a dopamine reuptake inhibitor; it increases the amount of dopamine in the space between neurons < 1326333785 862217 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which increases dopamine-related signaling < 1326333815 454935 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :dopamine is one of the main chemicals involved in reinforcement and reward-seeking behavior < 1326333848 522883 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :right so it feels great for a while. obviously you would need quite a bit of self-control not to use such a substance once you know what it feels like. < 1326333855 615259 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the brain has evolved to seek activities which are evolutionarily useful, like exercise, sex, food, etc < 1326333870 761803 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1326333875 712402 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :drugs like cocaine are addictive not because they're evolutionarily useful < 1326333888 284067 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but because they directly screw with the system for rewarding evolutionarily useful activity < 1326333916 35648 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yes the addiction is every bit as physical as the need for sex or pull-ups < 1326333920 112334 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you don't get the feeling "right now it would make sense to have sex, since that's fun", you get the feeling "oh god i need to fuck someone" < 1326333925 216614 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1326333931 521442 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :similarly "oh god i need some cocaine" < 1326333945 243105 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: the norwegian minister of finance is fond of reminding us that most of our national capital is in the form of skilled labor and that we need to preserve that. (especially when someone suggests we use more of the saved-up oil money.) < 1326333946 175 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't feel "i really need to do pull-ups since i want to get strong", you feel "i really need to do some pull-ups right now" < 1326333973 142934 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, at least i, feel "smoking is so much fun, i wish i could do it all day" < 1326333998 330237 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't feel it every now and then when i'm low on nicotine, i would like to do it all the time. < 1326334017 262548 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so maybe you are not "physically addicted" to nicotine < 1326334021 979094 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i must be < 1326334035 986490 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've been smoking half a year, and a god-awful lot < 1326334042 589457 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hear this i'm in denial < 1326334050 353827 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you seem not to understand a damn word i'm saying < 1326334053 519215 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's ok < 1326334083 989971 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i mean sure, it seems that i am not physically addicted to nicotine because i feel this way, by definition. < 1326334099 540843 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but how could i not be, if it is possible to be physically addicted to it? < 1326334106 867067 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :luck of biochemistry < 1326334114 309023 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :everyone's brain is a bit different < 1326334122 811038 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :some people can take cocaine or heroin and not get addicted < 1326334127 769302 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there aren't a whole lot of them, but they do exist < 1326334135 174780 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i get addicted to everything i do! i need to eat pizza *every day* nowadays < 1326334147 25616 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1326334163 932767 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but what does pizza have to do with single-codon mutations in your nicotinic acetylcholine receptors < 1326334180 659872 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm saying this stuff hinges on really specific genetic and biochemical details < 1326334190 136774 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which are different for everyone < 1326334195 194674 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1326334195 638755 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's one reason why drug addiction is heritable < 1326334196 41466 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1326334235 186936 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :one interesting exception is alcohol, i certainly like being drunk, but i don't really feel like getting drunk except like once a month. < 1326334260 669256 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :right now i have a bottle of whisky 20cm from my hand but i'm too lazy to pour so it's been there forever. < 1326334288 105826 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :my family is full of drunks < 1326334298 392820 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it still OK after thirty years? < 1326334352 105055 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hear that sort of thing can lead to you despising alcohol or something, but i certainly get completely wasted every now and then and have nothing against drinking in general. i'm just too lazy to pour. i'm never too lazy to smoke, really. < 1326334367 393543 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yes, forever. < 1326334433 68913 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps that has to do with my... let me copypaste alcoholic stuffoline receptors < 1326334544 346611 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :which i inherit from my true parents, who are lizard kings. < 1326334546 163749 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1326334795 581498 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am the lizard king, i can do anything < 1326335323 366772 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you my parent? < 1326336145 747598 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :doubtful < 1326336168 632749 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :sixth cousin once removed < 1326336784 940516 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not understand how my idea of catching pattern matching errors and so on breaks referential transparency any more than the existing way does < 1326337321 705900 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i don't even understand how noses work. < 1326338129 664405 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Quit: OK! < 1326338841 338997 :madbr!189dfdbe@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.157.253.190 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326338865 483132 :madbr!189dfdbe@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey... I think I've got an intersting idea for a CPU design < 1326338890 304899 :const!root@freebsd/developer/variable PRIVMSG #esoteric :a friend had an optimization to TOD < 1326338917 692011 :const!root@freebsd/developer/variable PRIVMSG #esoteric :to make it go faster the system could run a modified ntpd system to change the speed at which seconds progress < 1326338981 780916 :madbr!189dfdbe@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have each cpu instruction output a result < 1326338990 849643 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1326339006 738256 :madbr!189dfdbe@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then instead of reading operands from registers, reading them from the results of the N previous instructions < 1326339044 412478 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-227-50.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because fuck pipelining. < 1326339074 689267 :madbr!189dfdbe@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Essentially it's a form of out of order execution < 1326339207 315751 :madbr!189dfdbe@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: eh I guess it's a sort of mobile pipeline instead of a staged one... I think < 1326339345 918343 :madbr!189dfdbe@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Essentially you have a whole bunch of execution units, each of one is an ALU plus enough multiplexers to read operands from the N previous units, and you assign a whole bunch of incoming operations at the same time on a large block of units < 1326339458 517662 :madbr!189dfdbe@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So operation results become valid one after the other and trickles down the scheduled units < 1326339540 761518 :madbr!189dfdbe@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd have to do "out of band" instruction scheduling though < 1326339568 93722 :madbr!189dfdbe@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ie have the number of loop iterations etc determined some other way than branching instructions < 1326339698 544518 :madbr!189dfdbe@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would probably mostly be interesting as a coprocessor to a RISC cpu < 1326339877 867124 :madbr!189dfdbe@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, write the program except a couple of critical loops in C, C code gets run on the RISC part, until it runs into a critical loop, then use the RISC to load up the critical loop mode registers etc and switch to some ultra fast assembly routine running in that kind of massive multi-ALU mode < 1326340059 624454 :DCliche!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326340210 793288 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1326340364 318414 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: while you're at it, why not switch to an fpga on the fly < 1326340418 811642 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.microsemi.com/en/products/whats-new/smartfusion < 1326340531 951855 :madbr!189dfdbe@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :jafet: looks nice < 1326340733 763705 :madbr!189dfdbe@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :jafet: aiming at somewhere between SIMD units and fpgas < 1326340869 820365 :Jafet1!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1326340957 589092 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1326341132 723746 :Jafet1!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1326341521 704378 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1326341621 557086 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :" You'd have to do "out of band" instruction scheduling though" yeah this is important, if you instruct all your band members to gtfo at once, you have no band anymore < 1326343354 731654 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1326343495 550719 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can arrange a reunion, though < 1326343607 525063 :Darth_Cliche!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326343801 532131 :DCliche!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1326346635 949522 :Darth_Cliche!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net NICK :Klisz < 1326346896 781999 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I made up a TeX program to print out the experience points required for each level in D&D game, up to as many as will fit on a page (which is 53). There is still more room on the page so I could include other information too; do you have other idea? < 1326348651 549301 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1326348728 659848 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1326348780 715180 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good night, sir. < 1326348957 599668 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, you wanted a pure function in Haskell to catch exceptions? < 1326348979 568826 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :like tryPure (error "foo") => Left (ErrorCall "foo") < 1326348979 969728 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1326348991 676374 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: No. Not quite what I asked. < 1326348998 820006 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what then? < 1326349024 438623 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection timed out < 1326349056 686043 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant a *macro* (not a function at all) which converts an existing function (or even single value) to a function results in I/O action, with specified strictness of contained values (to specify which are used), and be able to catch errors there. < 1326349060 380763 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326349068 394247 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1326349074 480387 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that seems reasonable < 1326349090 688593 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Currently you catch them like other I/O errors, but the way it currently work seem wrong to me for more than one reason. < 1326349096 702513 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you can write a combinator library for that < 1326349098 922514 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not need macros < 1326349224 172189 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I think it won't be pure or mathematically correct or anything if it is not a macro. It doesn't make sense for it to be undefined and be defined due to that. There should be a layer in between, so that in one program it is undefined, and pass the layer, use a macro or something makes it a new thing based on the old one < 1326349272 27920 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hopefully you can understand what I meant now. I do not completely understand what you meant that a combinator library can be written for that, however. < 1326349297 902993 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1326349357 805607 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ii'm confused < 1326349359 66133 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@type Control.Exception.try . Control.Exception.evaluate < 1326349359 916434 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a e. (GHC.Exception.Exception e) => a -> IO (Either e a) < 1326349366 50056 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't this the one-argument version of what you want? < 1326349374 395074 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :for whnf strictness < 1326349388 256788 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, say you have: f :: Int -> Int -> Int; f 0 x = x; g :: Int -> Int -> IO Int; g = xyz 2 f; < 1326349415 650256 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I know about try and evaluate but that is what seem wrong to me. One thing the strictness is not always correct < 1326349457 870872 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(In my example, "xyz" would be the macro that does that; it isn't a function, so g = xyz; or g = xyz (1 + 1) f; is not allowed.) < 1326349507 971289 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, g 1 5 is IO action calling the pattern match exception, and g 0 8 is same as return 8 < 1326349573 828439 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: oh, are you and zzo38 discussing haskell? < 1326349574 230839 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you less confused now, or even more confused? < 1326349579 596153 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :great! < 1326349580 559196 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess we are < 1326349710 538059 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326349917 461655 :DCliche!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326349942 868950 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Mike had written a series of tutorials on Funge-98, do you know if any others exist besides the ones currently posted on the rcfunge98.com site? < 1326349943 39497 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. < 1326349971 945934 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in other words, anyone know of any Funge-98 tutorials? this seemed like a good place to ask < 1326349992 30424 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Do you have any more answer to me by now? < 1326349995 443168 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although probably a bad time, this is an awful time for people in most of the most common timezones for #esotericers < 1326349997 574222 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wow, I assumed Susan had abandoned rcfunge < 1326349997 841309 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or anyone else answer? < 1326350000 109989 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1326350014 692162 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you even understand what I mean, finally? < 1326350016 374914 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: esolangs tend not to need all that much maintenance < 1326350041 741577 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, no < 1326350084 794083 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm wondering if Deewiant has some, he's the person I'd rate as most likely to have a Funge-98 tutorial in this channel < 1326350089 820627 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: What is your opinion of my comments about this Haskell programs? < 1326350090 664480 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, what are you doing awake? < 1326350095 836195 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=funge-98+tutorial not promising < 1326350098 287289 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1326350100 702878 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: good question < 1326350101 639736 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this late at night or early morning for you, or do those terms have no meaning nowadays < 1326350109 387500 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: i have no idea what the context is < 1326350115 136655 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: early morning right now < 1326350131 171292 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I decided the same thing, so I went to work < 1326350138 976004 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had to get in early, by around 9am, to prepare a tutorial < 1326350141 553395 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Then read it! < 1326350144 662445 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: :( < 1326350148 321516 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'd have at most 3 hours sleep even if I managed to get to sleep instantly < 1326350151 747241 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I decided it wasn't worth it < 1326350166 897868 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I slept much of yesterday afternoon, due to only getting 2 hours sleep the day before) < 1326350179 325278 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, I've slept < 1326350204 457024 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, OK < 1326350212 308820 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What it was, is I was discussing about a new way to do catching pattern matching failures and user error catching of pure functions in IO actions, by using macros. < 1326350213 159074 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what timezone would you say you're in at the moment? < 1326350236 742312 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that is, if someone with a normal sleep schedule were sleeping at the same times as you, what timezone would they have to be in to make it a normal schedule?) < 1326350269 97155 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Now do you understand? < 1326350273 312750 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Now do I understand? < 1326350279 946900 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no < 1326350308 509102 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: err, I'm not sure; I slept about 8 hours, at least, from 21:00-05:00 or so < 1326350314 168632 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Do you know? < 1326350332 177424 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ooh, I envy that sleep schedule < 1326350340 155440 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used it deliberately for a few days, but it made me ill < 1326350353 341123 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's awful, i get tired in the afternoon < 1326350370 293070 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it'd be better if it got bright earlier < 1326350372 525832 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, I think mine was even more extreme, along the lines of 18:00-02:00 < 1326350382 503796 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, I came to the conclusion that it works great in summer but doesn't work in winter < 1326350397 904585 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(current thoughts as to the optimal sleep schedule: sleep 6-8 hours and wake at sunrise, regardless of when sunrise is) < 1326350422 363997 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a program to calculate the sunrise and all planets rise, but it doesn't include refraction, and it also doesn't include the apparent size of solar disc < 1326350426 446050 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you misspelled 10+ < 1326350468 877472 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I would think 18:00 is too early to sleep? At least to me, and people I know, it is too early < 1326350486 336570 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I do sometimes wake up as early as 02:00 < 1326350493 348347 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not often, though. < 1326350536 438780 :DCliche!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net NICK :Klisz < 1326350910 675304 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: That schedule's going to be hard to follow in places north of the Arctic Circle, or south of the Antarctic, at least year-round. < 1326350961 832414 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"south of the Antarctic" < 1326350969 327599 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Circle. < 1326350979 86001 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't feel like repeating. < 1326350983 475360 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I haven't slept in ten days and I'm SO TIRED, but some dude in the IRC said this is optimal." < 1326350999 758955 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Months, on the South Pole. < 1326351001 787054 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I was basing it on UKish latitudes < 1326351009 499615 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you just sleep for another 3 months or whenever it was. < 1326351017 489257 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I... guess it's efficient? < 1326351042 497298 :_Slereah!~butt@ANantes-259-1-159-48.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1326351057 426796 :_Slereah!~butt@ANantes-259-1-252-161.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1326351076 704872 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it was just "sleep for the 6-8 hours before sunrise" always, you don't get to sleep in winter *or* summer. < 1326351100 46414 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, yes, quite. < 1326351107 805368 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's even more efficient. < 1326351278 688588 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does the rising/setting depends on sun declination? < 1326351425 823513 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: SLEEP, GLORIOUS SLEEP < 1326351726 862538 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net NICK :MSleep < 1326351841 450531 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:14:00: kallisti: guess what i'm going to do now btw :D < 1326351844 420087 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: how was the heroin < 1326351854 342925 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would like to understand geometry of rising/setting. Astrolog has astro-graph so I can see it on the map of the world. There is yellow vertical line plotting hour angle, one point on the yellow line marked which is the declination, and the curved line red/green for rising/setting. < 1326352092 771944 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:09:23: yeah but what does pizza have to do with single-codon mutations in your nicotinic acetylcholine receptors < 1326352103 474479 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: what DOESN'T pizza have to do with single-codon mutations in your nicotinic acetylcholine receptors < 1326352119 621199 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1326352787 409248 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-227-50.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Omnomnom,. < 1326353919 953325 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what's the opposite of infinitesimal? < 1326353921 828024 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, not infinitesimal < 1326353933 370575 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-227-50.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Large? < 1326353959 62656 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. < 1326353961 339294 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, not infinitesimal < 1326353965 235327 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :0.00001 is not large < 1326353966 749234 :madbr!189dfdbe@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.157.253.190 QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1326353968 299663 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: "standard" means not infinitesimal and not infinite < 1326353970 877324 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it isn't infinitesimal, either < 1326353973 21669 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in nonstandard analysis < 1326353981 196038 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, that could work < 1326354571 591059 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the opposite of purple? < 1326354961 260883 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: purpl < 1326354961 796324 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :e < 1326354964 880532 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :green < 1326354969 296842 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-227-50.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elprup < 1326355015 622475 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :checyr < 1326355295 656891 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: checyr < 1326355313 44281 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :checyr < 1326355319 971911 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :checyr < 1326355441 106483 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://stackoverflow.com/questions/8831630/whats-benefits-of-nancyfx < 1326355563 306488 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, if you're not here, I won't put your name next to updates, so if when you read logs you only search for your name, you might not see it < 1326355563 708233 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What happens if I use the benefits? < 1326355572 635678 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1326355598 572415 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"if i was elliott, that's what i would say" - monqy < 1326355626 705094 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hmm, one of the agora backup lists just got conference spam < 1326355648 209748 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: criminal cfj + playerhood inquiry cfj < 1326355651 972288 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the only reasonable response < 1326355657 817810 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't see it < 1326355666 509434 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you can do it < 1326355679 134155 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: it was sent to tue, are you subscribed to that one? < 1326355679 804022 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but i'd have to figure out a rule to charge them under < 1326355691 830291 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, Sgeo isn't subscribed to tue? < 1326355693 651811 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's worrying < 1326355697 497330 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :come to think of it, why did tue even accept that? < 1326355711 771308 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: 101? 2029? < 1326355713 245084 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: presumably they registered for the list < 1326355722 981961 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know I'm subscribed to at least one backup list, not sure if both or not < 1326355735 859376 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I'll let the invaders know to use the backup lists < 1326355741 137700 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: heh < 1326355816 419810 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't be able to get to the password reminder thing if I wasn't registered, right? < 1326355855 178480 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no, reddit was mentioned on slashdot < 1326355861 841798 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I didn't realise it'd lead to a moderation system flamewar until I saw it < 1326355865 436653 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should have done, obviously < 1326356175 842051 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: it's likely it's just going ito < 1326356178 709073 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :into your spambox < 1326356213 436322 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "'Smaller' sites like Reddit start the ball rumbling, Slashdot joins in, [...]" < 1326356215 222825 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i lol'd < 1326356222 17040 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :slashdot "bigger than reddit" < 1326356230 610064 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :people correct them later < 1326356254 161043 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :start the ball rumbling? < 1326356258 876659 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes, most Slashdotters seem to be under the misconception that it's a major site < 1326356272 95412 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it's not in my spambox though < 1326356279 591452 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: rumbly ball < 1326356281 204303 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :IMO it's historically important, and worth subscribing to, but not /large/ < 1326356281 640210 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-227-50.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :To be fair, once upon a time it was relatively large. < 1326356299 606551 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-227-50.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slashdotting really was a major phenomenon. < 1326356305 2394 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think the only thing that can be slashdotted nowadays is, e.g. a teacup < 1326356317 578458 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-227-50.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the web grew, and Slashdot did not. < 1326356318 796480 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about that potato web server? < 1326356330 547039 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's teacup-sized. < 1326356343 447307 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note: Either an actual potato or Debian Potato would do. < 1326356355 577194 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE POTATO HAS LANDED < 1326356396 519136 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: actually, I think it's more a case of data having got larger < 1326356407 49612 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nowadays, webservers are used to serving up gigabyte-large videos < 1326356413 523357 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :FSVO gigabyte < 1326356436 541152 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, I know I've watched videos over 1GB large, either metric or binary < 1326356459 591709 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523++ # metric or binary < 1326356464 533654 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Webservers" aren't used to that; big webservers are < 1326356480 785730 :cswords!~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1326356506 674236 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :peer :( < 1326356549 645304 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :context is that reddit's planning to shut down for a while to protest against SOPA < 1326356565 749805 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :peer++ # eh resets connectoins and doesn't afraid of anything. < 1326356576 833281 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: no no < 1326356577 100804 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :bad < 1326356577 772313 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :person < 1326356580 716228 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :bad < 1326356587 80931 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :bad < 1326356590 877000 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :b < 1326356591 155359 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ad < 1326356597 396399 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :bad!!! < 1326356598 245117 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If elliott won't go to the Reddit, the Reddit will come to the elliott. < 1326356611 247335 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :bad :( < 1326356625 965662 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :b a d < 1326356641 781766 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :bad < 1326356680 443154 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :bad < 1326356827 806412 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :holy shit. < 1326356834 150731 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a sour melon flavor of powerade. < 1326356835 505756 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's so < 1326356836 779752 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :good. < 1326356838 789060 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh my god. < 1326356855 617830 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, kallisti SBaHJ update < 1326357151 976675 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh < 1326357186 196753 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey PRIVMSG #esoteric :fucking incredible < 1326357210 324583 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :its very good but already hours old < 1326357213 283016 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sgeo how could you... < 1326357224 938909 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy, I only found out about it recently < 1326357232 488161 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::o < 1326357297 241426 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo lied to monqy < 1326357299 732262 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :with his words :( < 1326357310 572451 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1326357344 929494 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sgeo knows all therefore he knew about the sbahj update BUT DIDN'T SAY ANYTHING < 1326357352 33583 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :;_; < 1326357443 755110 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's all this then < 1326357452 157721 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: monqy < 1326357467 539317 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the channel's in monqy mode < 1326357473 951530 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :delay expectations of coherency < 1326357480 756167 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326357599 958270 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "Proving that one never stops learning, Charles Pooh, one of our graph theory developers, pointed out to me that my synonyms item could have been done much better. I had broken one of the very rules that I wrote about in my “10 Tips for Fast Mathematica Code” entry—”Use built-in functions.”? < 1326357602 251450 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/?/"/ < 1326357658 881690 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you /have/ to use built-in functions to get reasonable performance out of Mathematica, as that's what it's tuned for < 1326357659 972631 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've already decohered < 1326357669 385280 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUILT IN FUNCTIONZ < 1326357676 657814 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. it's really fast at doing turing machines, but nowhere near as fast at doing sort-of-like-turing-machines-but-not-quite < 1326357693 936745 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :guido van rossum says that functional languages are the ones where map and filter etc are magical builtins < 1326357705 798779 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :python isn't functional because you can implement map in a few lines of code < 1326357726 535808 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a few lines? how stupidly verbose < 1326357726 692041 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you need them to be builtin if you want performance < 1326357736 418944 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:47:58 how may I get a call stack when my program crashes? < 1326357736 575148 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:48:09 You may not. Thanks for asking. < 1326357740 434908 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Hey, -xc works /most/ of the time. < 1326357743 965960 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :#haskell? < 1326357747 1532 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1326357749 447141 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :any reasonable functional language should be able to do map, filter, and both folds in three or fewer lines of code, putting line breaks in the natural places < 1326357751 765834 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf tells it like it is < 1326357751 922121 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Maybe# < 1326357752 971501 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(each, that is) < 1326357753 127662 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*! < 1326357764 462688 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe# < 1326357766 919375 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1326357767 188536 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Maybe# = Just# a | Nothing# < 1326357771 658211 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Hey, I elaborated a little more later on! < 1326357774 796488 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just uses a null pointer for nothing < 1326357775 331867 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's faster!!!!!!1!!!! < 1326357778 430303 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :YESSS < 1326357781 442025 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :omg the optimizationsz < 1326357783 832360 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and is otherwise a pionter to the just value < 1326357787 118792 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you're onto something here < 1326357788 956409 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was my interpretation of Maybe# too < 1326357794 238 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be srsly better right < 1326357794 349617 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this means that Maybe# Int# can't represent 0 < 1326357799 266764 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I hadn't thought it through in that much detail < 1326357806 58808 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hmm, Maybe# would have to always use a pointer < 1326357806 767743 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the kind of Maybe# would forbid that anyway < 1326357815 981035 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be * -> * like the regular Maybe < 1326357821 249184 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: nah, kind polymorphism, dude < 1326357823 464150 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-227-50.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Heck, even an unreasonable functional language can pull them off in 10 or 15 lines. < 1326357857 565320 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-227-50.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for my canonical example of "unreasonable functional langauge" I shall point you to clambda) < 1326357859 192152 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I want to invent a functional language in which map is incredibly hard to write < 1326357915 830937 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ursala? :P < 1326358152 618822 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's probably only a couple of characters in ursala < 1326358163 429288 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and only hard to write, because doing so would actually require learning ursala < 1326358175 559340 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I suspect it's one character; the problem is that you have to write it without using map < 1326358266 249312 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if you can convince repa to stick an array's data at a particular pointer. < 1326358269 728379 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :first result for ursula is arc forum and the link in the post title is broke :( < 1326358274 494607 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean < 1326358277 585009 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ursula programming language < 1326358331 342471 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah the site is gone < 1326358358 193709 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :was it good < 1326358372 664275 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, http://hpaste.org/56368 < 1326358383 913270 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: as consolation: http://arclanguage.org/item?id=6155 < 1326358390 600090 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it works except sometimes nothing# segfaults < 1326358396 348879 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's just the price you pay for SPEED < 1326358402 129763 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: oh my god < 1326358417 687890 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: i want to show #haskell < 1326358421 161646 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should do it < 1326358431 76265 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that post is too mysterious for me to tell if it's good or bad < 1326358439 982690 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it looks a bit on the absolutely crazy side < 1326358461 211349 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :#comment -[ yes good ]- < 1326358468 182630 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Help!! I've been trying to optimise my code with unboxed Maybes but nothing# sometimes segfaults! http://hpaste.org/56368 < 1326358483 337265 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott u troll < 1326358487 226143 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :y u troll < 1326358506 197153 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: it's ok i put a :P face after it < 1326358520 447461 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i really should have put "just say maybe to drugs" as the module haddock < 1326358521 385173 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :o well < 1326358528 450378 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hlint tells you why it's broken. < 1326358534 314474 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're not usingCamelCase. < 1326358534 470600 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Put it on Hackage. < 1326358537 208678 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is no place to camelcase! < 1326358542 190003 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :acme-maybehash < 1326358555 565910 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: acme-maybe-fast < 1326358574 165059 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I think maybe#'s type doesn't have enough #s in it. < 1326358584 857253 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah it would be faster if it were maybe### < 1326358596 253017 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :truly optimized haskell code is about 40% hash by weight < 1326358596 409452 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION Maybe# (Maybe# a) < 1326358620 49014 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :«just# = M# . unsafeCoerce#» < 1326358627 58122 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck, why did i compose a newtype constructor with unsafeCoerce# < 1326358628 348905 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing# should be (void*)0, just# nothing# should be (void*)1, etc. < 1326358630 577263 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just sloppy < 1326358636 181702 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: safety < 1326358639 344393 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell's all about safety < 1326358659 174603 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i used howard's curry to prove that Maybe# exists, in the type system < 1326358667 877168 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks howard < 1326358682 670891 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :howard's curry with a side of samosas and bhang lassi < 1326358685 479482 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Curry-Howard. Coward. < 1326358696 838794 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :curry-howard. chowder. < 1326358697 644289 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I've already said "Hurry-Coward isomorphism". :( < 1326358718 812091 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i always dyslexia it into hurry-coward in my head oops < 1326358721 128002 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll have a jumbo bhang lassi, extra bhang, hold the lassi < 1326358729 370712 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: http://web.archive.org/web/20090113084759/http://www.basis.uklinux.net/ursala/ < 1326358741 457815 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://web.archive.org/web/20080704174715/http://www.basis.uklinux.net/ursala/manual.pdf doesn't load :( < 1326358751 557560 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least i can read the < 1326358754 225042 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :design philosophy < 1326358762 228777 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: hey how do i get repa to put an array at an address thanx < 1326358770 765152 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :moar unsafeCoerce# < 1326358780 574881 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if that fails load some FORTRAN into a ByteString and execute it < 1326358791 284097 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION derpishly just now realizes that you can make isNothing from maybe < 1326358792 931710 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn i should make a quasiquoter for inline FORTRAN < 1326358799 506873 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, fromJust and fromMaybe occured to me sooner < 1326358799 680241 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :then Haskell can take over the scientific HPC world < 1326358807 240461 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote damn i should make a quasiquoter for inline FORTRAN < 1326358812 426993 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t maybe True (const False) < 1326358813 268775 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. Maybe a -> Bool < 1326358819 220473 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :799) damn i should make a quasiquoter for inline FORTRAN < 1326358820 427556 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Actually, in one place I'm using maybe where fromMaybe makes more sense < 1326358821 55157 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, you can make anything that operates on Maybe from maybe < 1326358834 811694 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t maybe Nothing Just -- or did I just blow your mind < 1326358834 967735 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's almost like some kind of dogamorphism. < 1326358835 791744 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. Maybe a -> Maybe a < 1326358849 530260 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :woof woof < 1326358850 324433 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@quote ddarius isJust < 1326358850 592803 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :dogamorphism? < 1326358850 860920 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ddarius says: isJust :: Maybe a -> Bool; isJust = unsafeCoerce < 1326358857 833751 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :unsafeFromForeignPtr sh fptr < 1326358857 989947 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : = fromFunction sh < 1326358857 990166 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : (\ix -> unsafePerformIO < 1326358857 990276 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : $ withForeignPtr fptr < 1326358857 990380 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : (\ptr -> peekElemOff ptr $ toIndex sh ix)) < 1326358859 772846 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it works too (fsvo) < 1326358864 218724 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO REPA NO THAT ISN'T WHAT I WANT < 1326358888 990534 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://mainisusuallyafunction.blogspot.com/2010/09/executing-bytestring.html do it this way < 1326358921 513204 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :AxioSep 29, 2010 07:32 PM < 1326358921 707221 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :>> Why not! < 1326358921 707420 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :For security reasons, of course ! < 1326358921 707531 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you want Haskell to be the new C, as far as execution of arbitrary code is concerned… < 1326358928 361391 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: you're a bad person. you made haskell insecure < 1326358946 42881 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Y¬ < 1326358964 759548 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that code segfaultz on my system now < 1326358968 773626 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :prolly stupid NX bit < 1326358979 870172 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :More like No funX bit. < 1326358999 843799 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION stomps off in search of mprotect binding < 1326359035 562875 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: elliott: i could be wrong, but since Addr# has kind # i don't think you're allowed to cast it to Any, are you? < 1326359062 239936 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :unsafeCoerce# can cast between kinds < 1326359066 389628 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just that powerful < 1326359078 867025 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't ignore my techno < 1326359079 938655 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can it cast * to * -> *? < 1326359086 851523 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Your Show instance is wrong. < 1326359095 512242 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no your brain is wrong < 1326359116 670873 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1326359123 408050 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION cries. < 1326359168 338094 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :why am i reading repa's code < 1326359192 900416 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :{-# INLINE [2] force #-} < 1326359193 57117 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :force arr < 1326359193 57319 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : = unsafePerformIO < 1326359193 57429 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : $ do (sh, vec) <- forceIO arr < 1326359193 57544 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : return $ sh `seq` vec `seq` < 1326359193 839718 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Array sh [Region RangeAll (GenManifest vec)] < 1326359196 252543 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :best indentation ever < 1326359199 281718 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :idiomatic haskell < 1326359223 569077 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Array sh _ < 1326359223 763104 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : -> do mvec <- VM.unsafeNew (S.size sh) < 1326359223 763292 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : forceWith (VM.unsafeWrite mvec) arr' < 1326359225 579602 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh! < 1326359229 66859 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i could write my own forcing function < 1326359233 360231 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming vector gives me the kind of placement i need < 1326359237 5382 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :use strength reduction < 1326359245 93398 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow that indentation < 1326359246 433729 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is so good < 1326359256 592514 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this must be how dogs see < 1326359278 480395 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... Data.Vector.Unboxed.Mutable doesn't have any "cast pointer to vector lol" functions < 1326359287 820782 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :use storable vector < 1326359295 593403 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: oh, fair enough, i thought you were just crazy :P < 1326359309 400489 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should have more booze < 1326359325 820357 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I don't think a storable vector would work. < 1326359337 175539 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least, Repa has unboxed ones under the hood and I don't think they're compatible. < 1326359346 275071 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I suppose I could throw away the Repa array after forcing it... < 1326359370 883917 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1326359398 459037 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you know the last segment of _2001: A Space Odyssey_ synchs up with "Echoes" by Pink Floyd < 1326359411 229667 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa < 1326359417 724759 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nobody has ever said that in the history of ever. < 1326359445 228936 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :true fact < 1326359617 534401 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Array.Repa.Internals.Forcing isn't exported :( < 1326359890 662384 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bleh, I'm trying to print out a marksheet on this Windows computer here < 1326359896 782078 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but apparently there isn't enough disk space to open Excel < 1326359901 721915 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION boggles slightly < 1326359948 881838 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't think of something so important to save upon opening a spreadsheet program that it should refuse to open if it can't save it < 1326359972 292862 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :meanwhile, OpenOffice, which is also here, complained but allowed me to open the file < 1326360066 255 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-227-50.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Knowing Microsoft? Probably saving a new copy of Excel to disk to run. :P < 1326360451 823567 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-205-40.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326360460 179921 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-227-50.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1326360485 930320 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, OpenOffice crashed, then went into an infinite loop of asking to clear disk space trying to save its recovery data < 1326360548 59679 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you tried deleting something < 1326360629 295622 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :For example, Excel. < 1326360700 745091 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1326360775 918832 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1326360931 359719 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you tried starting some fires < 1326361034 375279 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it would work better if nothing# were the pointer 1 instead of 0 < 1326361109 798597 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: What about ~0? < 1326361120 549824 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that might be the best pointer of them all < 1326361772 157969 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric : this must be how dogs see use storable vector i should have more booze did you know the last segment of _2001: A Space Odyssey_ synchs up with "Echoes" by Pink Floyd < 1326361780 420743 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : I wonder which video games from the last 10-20 years will still be widely known in, say, 100 years. Which ones will become (and stay) classics? Some are pretty obvious, like people will most probably know about pacman. Probably super mario as well. < 1326361797 519616 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :minecraft < 1326361802 874876 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :doubtful < 1326361810 751968 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :desert bus < 1326361813 247617 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1326361834 908968 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :big rig < 1326361835 250384 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s < 1326361835 653954 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've never played desert bus < 1326361838 234899 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : this must be how dogs see < 1326361846 401135 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : this must be how dogs see < 1326361849 870065 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, trying to remember which that one is. I heard the name before... < 1326361852 831364 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dogs see with a storable vector? < 1326361852 986931 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : this must be how dogs see < 1326361862 24242 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : this must be how dogs see < 1326361870 659861 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Rigs:_Over_the_Road_Racing < 1326361877 374370 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no, not that game < 1326361887 473857 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the absence of collision detection < 1326361889 244813 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"a severe lack of collision detection and frequent violation of the laws of physics were the game's main problems." < 1326361893 169570 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Sega Bass Fishing. < 1326361903 273772 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :100 years from now womankind is extinct and so they only play dating sims < 1326361909 489886 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I never even heard about that one :P < 1326361919 54242 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so this immediately turned into a list of the worst games? < 1326361938 802382 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sega_Bass_Fishing "Gameplay: Bass Fishing is an arcade fishing game. Basically, someone choses a character then goes out on a boat to go and catch fish." (The description ends there.) < 1326361959 145288 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1326361959 991589 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Best article. < 1326361985 958177 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no the best article is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_animals_with_fraudulent_diplomas < 1326362006 399761 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only know about it because it's in the four (four!) games chosen for the Dreamcast Collection for some reason. < 1326362016 275921 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The game struggled with critics due to its narrow nature. However, it did showcase the amazing graphical capabilities of the Dreamcast with the fish moving fluidly to create a smooth fishing experience." < 1326362018 488311 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Sonic Adventure, Crazy Taxi, Space Channel 5: Part 2 and Sega Bass Fishing.) < 1326362020 888181 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, wow. are the other games as bad? < 1326362068 250636 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only one I heard about there is Sonic Adventures. And I can't remember if that is one of the bad or good ones < 1326362085 913872 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like its not a good one < 1326362121 983492 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there weren't really any good sonic games post-megadrive/genesis (i say this as someone who hasn't played them but reads on the topic a lot) < 1326362123 98635 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sonic Adventure isn't bad; Crazy Taxi is I think a mediocre-to-goodish sandboxy car game; Sega Bass Fishing is... Sega Bass Fishing; and Space Channel 5: Part 2 is some sort of a strange rhythm game thing. < 1326362164 151246 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, I heard that the recent sonic generations is pretty good < 1326362169 509057 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Curious, what would make some of the unicode characters display correctly but others not? I wasn't even aware there was an "inbetween", I thought you either see unicode characters rendered or you don't." < 1326362174 136793 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :haven't played it. Haven't played /any/ sonic game in fact < 1326362197 947371 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Isn't Crazy Taxi famous-ish? < 1326362203 480705 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sonic and knuckles is pretty cool though.. the way they stack up the cartridges < 1326362208 460671 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/75/CrazyTaxi_cover.png certainly rings a bell at least. < 1326362216 246298 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the font for a start < 1326362226 168588 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sonic Adventure was I think the first "good" 3D Sonic; of course not everyone likes those, but quite a few do. < 1326362229 249595 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(most likely cause even) < 1326362237 818851 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The reception at the time of original Dreamcast version was overwhelmingly positive, including reviews from GameSpot and GameSpy being above 90%. The current Game Rankings average ranking is 88%.[11] It became one of the few Sega All Stars games. In Japan, it received an excellent 38 out of 40 from Famitsu.[12] Although criticized for its camera system, framerate issues, and fishing stages with Big, the game was still highly praised for retaining the f < 1326362237 975243 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ast and enjoyable gameplay that Sonic was known for in 2D as well as the game's graphics, multiple character storylines, and soundtrack." < 1326362246 12977 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : sonic and knuckles is pretty cool though.. the way they stack up the cartridges <-- eh? < 1326362289 875074 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The Sonic & Knuckles cartridge can be combined with Sonic the Hedgehog 3 to form "Sonic 3 & Knuckles", the game they were supposed to release but ran out of time. :p < 1326362308 537417 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, combined as in physically connect them? < 1326362309 922277 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It can also be combined with Sonic 2 to play as Knuckles in Sonic 2, but that's not such a big change.) < 1326362310 458114 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or what < 1326362311 532080 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1326362317 559122 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1326362324 420580 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, so it is an expansion pack of sorts? < 1326362324 576967 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You stick Sonic 3 on top of the Sonic & Knuckles game. < 1326362345 245238 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or can it be used standalone? < 1326362347 52657 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can also stick other cartridges there, and usually get to play one of the "collect the spheres" bonus levels. < 1326362352 774008 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It works as standalone too. < 1326362355 266814 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I'm imagining you just sort of balance them on top of each other. < 1326362375 367306 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, that is probably an unique system they had there < 1326362377 15 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: But when you have Sonic 3 plugged in, you can play through the levels of both in one seamless "story". < 1326362399 244299 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Here's a picture: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Sega_Genesis-_Sonic_%26_Knuckles_locked_on_to_Sonic3_flipped.jpg < 1326362405 525700 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Remember how UTF-8 was invented. The guys making Plan-9 looked at Unicode and said, "That's a good idea, but it's totally wasting half the bits," then made it up out of scratch. Microsoft could have done the same thing if they had a culture of innovation, but they didn't." < 1326362407 71660 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION cries. < 1326362408 934088 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate reddit. < 1326362421 470252 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1326362434 176383 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that... is just stupid? < 1326362442 979364 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah UTF-8 is a vastly superior alternative to Unicode < 1326362448 354766 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1326362448 891695 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's half the bits. < 1326362450 945274 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol. it sounds like politics < 1326362458 527043 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Politics! < 1326362459 335850 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: commissioner, mr van velzen has just said. it is true that fisheries play a social and cultural assets. europe' s undertaking in these critical areas must not be general, that it is right for europe to take advantage of the opportunities given to us by citizens at the heart of the socio-economic impact in the applicant countries to the european union < 1326362461 220346 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, there are so many things wrong with that stuff < 1326362475 476740 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the trick is that you need only the bottom half of a '0' to distinguish it from a 1 < 1326362478 74399 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, fisheries? Are you talking about that game too? < 1326362478 663748 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: madam president, ladies and gentlemen, it is essentially a humanitarian response to future situations which might arise. that is why i referred to earlier. < 1326362482 649495 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you don't need the flag or the little base on the '1' neither < 1326362487 336226 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that's some serious space savings < 1326362498 318785 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay, the guy finally accepted my MONADS. < 1326362503 900355 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :M O N A D S < 1326362546 550463 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this government had a mandate from the public to create UTF-8, Mr. Speaker. Something the opposition ignored due to not being innovative Mr. Speaker < 1326362572 534868 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rabble! < 1326362576 95711 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Anyway; in most Sonic games you collect (usually 7) Chaos Emeralds, and then can transform into Super Sonic; when you've got 3+Knuckles plugged in and continue to the latter half after collecting all, you can start collecting Super Emeralds and transform into Hyper Sonic. (Yes, I know how stupid it sounds.) < 1326362576 519287 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rabble rabble rabble! < 1326362611 684095 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, heh < 1326362621 821323 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, and hyper sonic does what? < 1326362634 889057 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like Super Sonic, except more. < 1326362637 83024 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also super sonic? Nintendo can't have been happy with that one) < 1326362663 984602 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Sonic the Hedgehog 3 and Sonic & Knuckles were originally to be released as one game.[2] However, due to time and money contraints, it was later split into two separate games. However, Sonic & Knuckles contained "Lock-on Technology", where the Sonic & Knuckles cartridge would be put in the Sega Genesis system, and then another game could be placed onto the top of the Sonic & Knuckles cartridge itself.[3]" < 1326362787 23329 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wanna take back my comments about post-megadrive/genesis sonics < 1326362797 677574 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, oh? < 1326362813 88958 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :since i have indeed not played any, or looked in depth into the question < 1326362823 718401 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1326362831 474090 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Help!! The anti-ByteString-for-Unicode contingent is failing!! < 1326362837 961743 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, I looked at some lets play of the last one at least < 1326362853 91854 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Hey, man, I did my part. < 1326362856 892448 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not getting involved. < 1326362860 687672 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Any more.) < 1326362861 626230 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i had some kfc and i upset my teeth < 1326362868 962620 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doctor's orders. It's bad for my mental health. < 1326362893 238620 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: IM CRYIN;G < 1326362899 715769 :cheater!~cheater@dslb-084-057-009-068.pools.arcor-ip.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1326362902 916858 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok i have an idea < 1326362912 633834 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Just... Ignore. < 1326362918 572624 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let them use their ByteStrings for text. < 1326362924 570135 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: They should have merged that Text/UTF-8 stuff just to shut people up about it. < 1326362929 134936 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : shachaf: Help!! The anti-ByteString-for-Unicode contingent is failing!! <-- what is it about? < 1326362931 452037 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ByteStrings for breakfast. < 1326362934 337005 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :people will never shut up about anything < 1326362946 959165 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about including the data to describe each character in the beginning of the document < 1326362990 52646 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1326362996 395069 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like {A = the 2 lines of length 1 forming a 30 degree angle from the top to the bottom and a line in the middle < 1326363002 413644 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something < 1326363013 679967 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, uh, a PDF file with embedded fonts? < 1326363033 226633 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :aren't ByteStrings mostly for handling (large) amounts of binary data? As opposed to actual text? < 1326363037 738834 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, elliott GreaseMonkey (does GreaseMonkey want on the list?) update < 1326363039 253950 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm embedded fonts yeah, thats the word i didnt know until now < 1326363039 925368 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1326363065 440040 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi kmc < 1326363065 707889 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could use embedded fonts on every document :D < 1326363071 858789 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm glad elliott GreaseMonkey got updated < 1326363080 889011 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, you usually embed the used subset of the font in .pdfs < 1326363082 96478 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :he was getting so rusty < 1326363084 744828 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi elliott < 1326363087 22563 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :totally unlike his formerly-greasy self < 1326363094 751335 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : this must be how dogs see < 1326363136 512355 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok so embedded fonts probably isn't the solution to unicode < 1326363141 571085 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : this must be how dogs see < 1326363147 384988 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, obviously < 1326363147 973916 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :unicode is a disease, we have the cure < 1326363153 539413 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the cure is that foreigners need to learn english < 1326363162 870311 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also mathematicians should quit their abstract mumbo jumbo and use real words < 1326363187 17271 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what? Through recursive quotations? < 1326363220 278788 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :we will convert to ASCII and use the other 128 bytes to encode a series of pleasing softcore pornographic images < 1326363234 288352 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, why softcore? < 1326363245 364484 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Anyway speaking of stacking cartridges, http://withfriendship.com/images/i/44407/sega-32x.jpg (It's rather slow to load, but did so finally, at least for me.) < 1326363268 203981 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, *waits* < 1326363276 154746 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the set of all mathematicians should define a mapping of abstract mumbo jumbo words to real words < 1326363285 422985 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah there < 1326363285 959873 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, they have that < 1326363289 868021 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's called "learn math" < 1326363293 871343 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what is it? < 1326363312 503755 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was trying to rephrase " also mathematicians should quit their abstract mumbo jumbo and use real words" for irony < 1326363324 640406 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, there is the sonic stuff, and a game genie, what are the rest? < 1326363347 214337 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : unicode is a disease, we have the cure < 1326363347 370442 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : the cure is that foreigners need to learn english < 1326363351 422721 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have seen people express this opinion seriously < 1326363356 770187 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The bottom layer is a Mega-CD; you put a regular MegaDrive on top to get a CD thing; then stacked on that is a Sega 32X, it's a MegaDrive add-on which has some 32-bit SH2s or whatever, I can't recall the details. < 1326363379 773127 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1326363388 825893 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the thing between that an the game genie? < 1326363401 807737 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I can't quite make out what the red-rimmed thing is, and the grey thing seems to say 'cleaning system'. < 1326363408 962680 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, sure < 1326363411 85071 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, also: what happened if you put a sonic & knuckles in another sonic & knuckles? < 1326363420 403132 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :people will also express seriously the opinion that the jews should be rounded up & killed < 1326363424 857811 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It exploded. < 1326363430 117975 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, really? < 1326363437 136395 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I think there are two Sonic & Knuckleses in that pile. < 1326363440 764661 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1326363442 612415 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes indeed < 1326363456 584684 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure if that tower would actually run, but it looks fancy. < 1326363460 316958 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Germany it is illegal to disparage Unicode < 1326363483 512565 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I guess with enough cartridges you could make a large circle of them. I doubt there isn't any sideways movement possible. < 1326363516 129501 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION idly considers answering http://stackoverflow.com/questions/8832624/any-good-articles-on-optimizing-haskell-code. < 1326363527 767340 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : i have seen people express this opinion seriously <-- ouch < 1326363528 369275 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be more cool if the combined object resembled a humanoid robot with a sword < 1326363547 536945 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Here's another confusing contraption: https://img.skitch.com/20111206-bg8k8khjfknd7siqbj825nph18.jpg < 1326363580 360664 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : I'm not sure if that tower would actually run, but it looks fancy. <-- hm I guess there could be issues with power, and at some point also the signal levels < 1326363591 623698 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, not quite as absurd < 1326363608 111404 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is what it should resemble http://gadgetsin.com/uploads/2011/11/robot_shaped_4_port_usb_hub_3.jpg < 1326363636 890868 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, but big flat thing without support for most of it looks dangerous to the connector < 1326363667 67041 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if the Robozzle Silverlight interface can be made to work < 1326363677 561183 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yeah. I don't really know what they have there; there's the more compact Mega-CD unit, but I can't be sure what's under the 32X. The game second-to-top is Sonic & Knuckles again, but I'm not sure what that thing is where the controller wires go. < 1326363711 875683 :cheater!~cheater@dslb-084-057-030-046.pools.arcor-ip.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326363730 823686 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, no description offered on the page it was on? < 1326363743 166252 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it was a second-hand find. < 1326363747 327748 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1326363752 6031 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, same for the other picture? < 1326363773 240401 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. "I can’t quite name everything I see in this picture, so if someone wants us to give a piece by piece rundown feel free." < 1326363775 256058 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :also that cleaning system thingy looks highly suspect. Cleaning what. < 1326363798 739114 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, there's a commenter. "You’ve got a Sega 32X plugged into the base console (as it should be) but then the Master System adapter plugged into that (which may or may not be a functional combination), then a cleaning cartredge plugged into the master system adapter (which is just a piece of plastic with scrubby bits on the ends), so that completely breaks any functionality it may have had. Then a Game Geneie, two copies of Sonic and Knuckles (no reaso < 1326363798 912418 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :n) and then Sonic 3. Also, a Sega CD to the side." < 1326363817 363850 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"About the biggest functional stack you could have would be Console + Sega CD + 32x, +Game Genie + Sonic & Knuckles, + another cart. < 1326363817 520153 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe if the 32x supports the master system adapter you could have Console + CD + 32x + Master System Adapter + Master System cart. (I don’t think there was a master system game genie)" < 1326363853 351600 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1326363894 298377 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Anyway, Sega once made a handheld that played MegaDrive cartridges, so purely theoretically (and connector-wise) you could also plug in all that stuff (well, not the Mega-CD) into this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Sega-Nomad-Front.png < 1326363908 653253 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would probably look even more ludicrous. < 1326363914 591753 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1326363934 401245 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"32X Add-on: Cannot be played on the Nomad due to an obscure cartridge shape that can't fit in the Nomad's cartridge slot." < 1326363935 360882 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aw. < 1326363941 374435 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I'm imagining a project to plug as many pieces of tech into each other as possible. < 1326363963 17407 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, start from a laptop with a shitload of USB hubs, then USB adapters to everything, ..., TV, console, catridge, ... < 1326363967 336385 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could fill a house with it. < 1326363969 795516 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really think 32X would run (at least for long) with batteries, anyway. < 1326364002 576134 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's got 30 minutes of battery life with non-rechargable batteries, anyway. :p < 1326364021 988626 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, heh < 1326364053 482567 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :did anyone ever make a laptop that's powered by a small internal combustion engine < 1326364060 290454 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Hi, how can I create a list with an immutable length please? < 1326364070 377089 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :like the ones on model aircraft < 1326364072 980166 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm, you could probably do even more with a desktop < 1326364093 54869 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :#esoteric: All the frustration of #haskell, with none of the good parts of #haskell! < 1326364114 360873 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I have like 8 USB 2 ports on the back (iirc), two USB 3 ports, two USB 2 on the front and one USB 3 on the front < 1326364125 193321 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 in the front, 1 in the back < 1326364128 842088 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Yep! < 1326364141 893989 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, that sounds more like a laptop? < 1326364148 412210 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :except it would be the side there < 1326364162 145426 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, misread the context < 1326364162 816030 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :They've had some fuel cell laptop prototypes, but that probably doesn't count as a combustion engine. < 1326364173 299870 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :now merijn will guess not only the question but the entire backstory of the question-asker < 1326364183 961258 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1326364190 349271 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: elliott: I suspect python experience, because python's tuples are essentially immutable lists < 1326364239 804706 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the most USB ports I ever seen on a laptop was 6 hm. 2-4 is more usual < 1326364262 507639 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Thus the hubs. < 1326364277 997818 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes but there is a limit to the number of devices on a single host controller < 1326364279 204707 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :127 iirc < 1326364299 498656 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, since every port on my desktop has a separate host controller that means a lot more devices < 1326364309 821288 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I never said it had to work. < 1326364314 577729 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh < 1326364318 412837 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assumed it had to < 1326364329 120992 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it would be cooler. < 1326364418 739406 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I also have firewire hm (and so does my laptop). Might be rather hard to find any device that supports that these days < 1326364420 24535 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can connect any amount of computers with wires (the technical term is "net-work", I believe) but maybe that's contrary to the spirit. < 1326364434 982532 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I believe the limit for firewire is 63 devices? < 1326364437 341464 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or some such < 1326364438 722446 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :per chain < 1326364492 925727 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well obviously you could easily fill a house with that yes. And networked printers (especially since those tend to be rather large), NASes and what not < 1326364521 959422 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's fill the planet with interconnected computers < 1326364523 324349 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Well, you want to optimise for the number of different device-types. < 1326364525 623971 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i call it "the internet" < 1326364528 544584 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Some kind of... internetworking? < 1326364531 49628 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: They make those clevur eSATA/USB hybrid ports into laptops too these days. < 1326364542 512943 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yes I have one or two eSATA ports too < 1326364547 181470 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :none of the hybrid ones < 1326364553 691704 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(on my desktop) < 1326364561 267173 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(no such thing on my laptop, it is too old) < 1326364573 96854 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(like, uh, almost 3 years) < 1326364579 129790 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"As the port is designed to work with both SATA and USB, neither organization has formally approved it. USB-IF states it does not support any connector used by other standards, these combo ports are to be used at your own risk,[1] -- < 1326364590 286180 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You'll plug your eye out?" < 1326364599 485263 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/\?/!/ < 1326364604 620294 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what? < 1326364630 308095 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "at your own risk" makes it sound like that. < 1326364637 544319 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :also what about that new intel/apple thingy. The uh, lightsomething < 1326364640 155079 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :forgot the name of it < 1326364648 377356 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thunderbolt. < 1326364651 100277 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1326364658 73622 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I'm pretty sure it used to be lightsomething < 1326364661 44452 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :did they rename it? < 1326364668 77494 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thunderbolts and lightning, very very frightening. < 1326364689 363687 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Light Peak was a codename for it. < 1326364691 76721 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anything use it (apart from apple products)? < 1326364693 929889 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ah okay < 1326364770 944224 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmCVYbTWU60 < 1326364870 698212 :cheater!~cheater@dslb-084-057-030-046.pools.arcor-ip.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1326364959 428247 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : hm they dropped the actual fibre stuff? How boring < 1326364988 651009 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't send power over fibre (yet). < 1326365008 73366 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yes, it's just boring copper. < 1326365015 362930 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yes you could by using a solar cell thingy at the end :P < 1326365039 547006 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but more seriously you could use fibre for the data and copper for the power in the same cable < 1326365094 672147 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is not like you wouldn't need separate wires for data and power anyway < 1326365127 961585 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well okay, you can do networking over the mains and such, but iirc performance is rather bad) < 1326365210 656227 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :1-wire does it < 1326365235 840306 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Copper is also cheaper, which is probably the more important reason. < 1326365249 535716 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, hm, not familiar with that bus (though I heard the name before, and thought "what a generic name"). But what is the data rate over that? < 1326365258 575564 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :dallas 1-wire < 1326365260 632565 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :also how does it form a circuit? < 1326365263 125104 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the data rate is not that high < 1326365269 329425 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's 2 wires incl. ground < 1326365273 31494 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right < 1326365279 630752 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a ground wire and a power/data wire < 1326365305 947242 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, anyway for high speed connections (over copper) you usually use differential signaling afaik < 1326365310 625491 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1326365329 151077 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how that works for stuff like networking over the mains < 1326365339 618664 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't really do that there < 1326365350 717401 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not quite 2x2x10Gbps over 1-wire, I don't think. < 1326365367 82248 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1326365398 795891 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what sort of data rate does 1-wire have? I would guess in the range of kbps < 1326365485 256415 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :also youtube just spazzed out. It now says that every video was uploaded 42 years ago for me < 1326365486 83743 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1326365504 309660 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in the channel video list thingy) < 1326365510 793405 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the date on the actual video is correct) < 1326365517 428334 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait no, they are not correct < 1326365519 882167 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are all today < 1326365521 819901 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay wtf < 1326365680 525569 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the common ("homeplug"/IEEE1901) ethernet-over-power-lines just uses fancy modulation (xDSL-style) and high-enough frequencies, so that they carry over the neutral wire. < 1326365688 627794 :cheater!~cheater@dslb-084-057-039-043.pools.arcor-ip.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326365701 270881 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1326365728 245266 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :do they transmit only around the AC zero crossing, or all the time < 1326365731 82198 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, xDSL uses phase modulation iirc? < 1326365751 832327 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which I have to admit I have no clue how it works) < 1326365797 877025 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I know of that thing solely thanks to menuconfig. < 1326365819 263617 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah yes that is where I have seen 1-wire before < 1326365821 848670 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1326365858 725921 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, that was fun < 1326365863 79147 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :going over past exam questions in a tutorial < 1326365869 900296 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was a "spot the six mistakes in this code" question < 1326365871 377758 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and we found nine < 1326365874 577256 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1326365914 913323 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, were three of them much less obvious than the other 6? < 1326365937 442265 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so < 1326365942 478358 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :strange < 1326365943 749821 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although some of them stemmed from the same root cause < 1326365948 343244 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1326365956 177591 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was an array that wasn't initialized at all, and initializing it just brought up more problems < 1326365968 470751 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :which language was it? < 1326365978 105527 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Java < 1326365981 903429 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1326365991 753080 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it would have been the same in C, apart from the different syntax for allocating an array on the heap < 1326366056 624979 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I seem to recall at least ADSL supporting more than one modulation scheme (admittedly they could all be phase-related variants), using the "most suitable" one for each frequency subband. But I'm no telecomm engineer. < 1326366083 599732 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite possible < 1326366223 80791 :cheater!~cheater@dslb-084-057-039-043.pools.arcor-ip.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1326366420 917135 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least QAM is used, and that's sort-of amplitude-and-phase-modulation. < 1326366490 308981 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I have all the (Be)Funge specifications I'm aware of but no tutorials, sorry. < 1326366496 689496 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION had alcohol in his mouth :/ < 1326366515 549222 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, QAM? < 1326366526 985328 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh "Quadrature amplitude modulation" < 1326366531 555281 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :wth is that < 1326366544 319254 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's what they use very much. < 1326366549 83399 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1326366573 39918 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ais523 was looking for a funge tutorial? Why? < 1326366602 690429 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm how many esolangs have tutorials? < 1326366604 916538 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: email request < 1326366613 177646 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1326366617 233700 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, due to IFFI? < 1326366621 174860 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1326366625 999044 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to me being known as an esolanger < 1326366628 125158 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1326366641 955241 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't think of a single esolang that I know of any tutorial for < 1326366675 398092 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, are there intercal tutorials? < 1326366682 640627 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I don't think it's possible to have an "uninitialized" array in Java; all you can have is an array with elements initialized to their default values, which might informally count as one. (Cf. JLS 15.10.1p5 "Run-time Evaluation of Array Creation Expressions: ...array is created of the specified length, and each component of the array is initialized to its default value...") < 1326366690 969630 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: one unfinished one by Clinton Forbes < 1326366700 490312 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I meant a null pointer where an array should be < 1326366704 520590 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1326366727 211030 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been wondering about writing one myself, but I'm not sure if there's an audience < 1326366733 74891 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps I'll write a monad tutorial instead to annoy elliott < 1326366752 868771 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I might read it. Actually being able to code in intercal would be cool < 1326366775 554144 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Does that "unfinished one" equal the "Diving into INTERCAL" blog? < 1326366789 307235 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, the name's at the end of the comments; apparently so. < 1326366806 162587 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yes < 1326366823 921904 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I think the author got lost right around when he tried to make a non-infinite loop < 1326366824 78078 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :So which animal would the O'Reilly INTERCAL book have? < 1326366849 318181 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: it wouldn't, it'd be an O'Reilly book but it'd have something that no other O'Reilly book has on its cover < 1326366859 192736 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :different in nature, rather than just a different animal < 1326366888 231104 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :O'Reilly has quite a few non-animal books already. < 1326366920 201874 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, in that case, it'd have to just not have a cover at all < 1326366942 986859 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :They have a set of "X Hacks" books which have tool covers, for example. < 1326366948 294394 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : perhaps I'll write a monad tutorial instead to annoy elliott < 1326366956 647489 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Is "annoyance" an appropriate description of a murder? < 1326366966 858513 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Sgeo had alcohol in his mouth :/ < 1326366969 709852 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: You am will die now. < 1326366982 833161 :cheater!~cheater@dslb-084-057-012-103.pools.arcor-ip.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326367022 702583 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : So which animal would the O'Reilly INTERCAL book have? < 1326367025 261350 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :An alot, perhaps? < 1326367029 920018 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Also you SPACED AFTER THAT QUESTION AGAIN. < 1326367040 162567 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT KEEPS HAPPENING. < 1326367044 478095 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Should I set up a bot that does annoying things on "\? $"? < 1326367046 182210 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps even: happening. < 1326367050 299960 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That might help you kick the habit. < 1326367052 510707 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why do you care about that space? < 1326367057 578628 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's bad for him. < 1326367060 773436 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why < 1326367068 993006 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not as bad as the enigma punctuation style ! < 1326367077 24501 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Stop being irresponsible. < 1326367082 969644 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Isn't that just French? < 1326367091 106182 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no I'm curious. < 1326367120 283801 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: perhaps, but it still gets on my nerves slightly < 1326367127 729304 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially when sentences I write, in English, are corrected to it < 1326367136 398589 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wat < 1326367144 63227 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I wonder if there are Funge-98 tutorials in the #esoteric logs < 1326367149 622156 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do the There She Is animations take so long to load? < 1326367159 644199 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: a level I submitted to Enigma is officially called "Choices, choices ..." < 1326367178 920903 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: :( < 1326367181 694851 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: kill them all < 1326367200 500624 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION should play Enigma < 1326367210 65701 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: do < 1326367213 640791 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if development is mostly dead < 1326367213 797137 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it annoying to play with a touchpad? < 1326367220 237646 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got used to it surprisingly quickly < 1326367225 326229 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does take some getting used to, though < 1326367241 396034 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a lot of tweaking of the mouse speed option (which you can do using left and right in-game, so they probably realised it'd be necessary) < 1326367247 218151 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I never managed to play it with a trackpoint < 1326367273 450683 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you need that tweaking when using the mouse depending on the level < 1326367276 600350 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a trackpoint sounds perfect for enigma < 1326367301 746356 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it really isn't < 1326367311 680797 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the level of control is too low < 1326367321 558879 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, not exact enough < 1326367351 119418 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastlog funge < 1326367352 406927 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why are there so few trackballs around? I want to fondle some balls. :/ < 1326367364 549567 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: we have a trackball on the desktop at home, because there isn't enough table space for a mouse < 1326367376 64994 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thumb trackball, I find them much superior to the finger-controlled versions < 1326367386 385965 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1326367446 888032 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :" ais523: what's the opposite of infinitesimal?" on hyperreals, you can at least say finite for all nonzero values in R afaik. < 1326367452 681442 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those "rod mice" are weird too. I don't know the term for it. There's a horizontally positioned rod, slightly like an oversized pencil, and you rotate it to go up/down, and do something, I don't know quite what, to move sideways. < 1326367454 265351 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how do they compare to mice? < 1326367457 420566 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: i was looking for something a little snappier < 1326367461 375438 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently ais523 already answered < 1326367478 765029 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: The privilege of fondling balls is restricted to the chosen few. < 1326367519 333481 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: easy to use but slightly slower < 1326367544 231315 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :easier to use in what way? Better precision or what? < 1326367566 842542 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they really obviously convey the assumptions behind Fitt's Law; with a mouse moving it is one motion and the adjustments are subconcious, with a trackball you notice yourself making them < 1326367568 267248 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gah, I can't find even a picture of the horizontal-rod thing. What *are* they called? < 1326367569 665420 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I didn't say easier to use < 1326367576 382377 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just, they aren't massively difficult to use < 1326367589 726074 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1326367591 155436 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I misread < 1326367592 39655 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry < 1326367593 939001 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastlog funge < 1326367596 485592 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastlog funge < 1326367598 15692 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastlog funge < 1326367599 490687 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastlog funge < 1326367601 7056 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastlog funge < 1326367603 101147 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1326367608 435951 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo test < 1326367611 136721 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: trying to find funge tutorials in the logs < 1326367619 999744 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :-98, that is < 1326367621 292681 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I doubt spamming it helps < 1326367627 938421 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1326367628 744566 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I wanted five different results < 1326367639 557926 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I thought pastelog includes all < 1326367645 118487 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"past", not "paste". < 1326367647 447572 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :test < 1326367650 986194 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1326367656 51346 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1326367667 334647 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems what you got was five similar results, sadly. < 1326367667 737329 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pastelog's an interesting thought < 1326367668 798110 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :might be too much output, though < 1326367671 800010 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll try anyway < 1326367673 276442 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastlog funge < 1326367673 432630 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastlog funge < 1326367673 588830 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastlog funge < 1326367673 815436 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastlog funge < 1326367673 971829 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastlog funge < 1326367674 217086 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastlog funge < 1326367684 716462 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :c Gah, I can't find even a picture of the horizontal-rod thing. What *are* they called? < 1326367686 332408 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Roller mice? < 1326367699 480111 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1326367705 48650 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently. < 1326367706 660055 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so umm, we say a minsky machine is somewhat reversible if it has only one configuration (say state f, zero counters) where it doesn't have a successor and only one config (say state i, zero counters) which doesn't have a predecessor, and it's injective on all configs. < 1326367716 903104 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd'nvr've thought. < 1326367725 636686 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :("never" is not really easy to stick in like that.) < 1326367729 11673 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it undecidable whether you reach the final config from the initial one? < 1326367735 942050 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I'd'ne'er've thought. < 1326367771 190171 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1326367787 435218 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :we need this for a paper, but i don't know anything about minsky machines because computer science is such bleh :/ < 1326367823 207693 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1326367823 363809 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1326367823 499624 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1326367828 120160 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : Gah, I can't find even a picture of the horizontal-rod thing. What *are* they called? <-- oh yes, I only remember seeing them in the context of health care receptionists and similar < 1326367829 597739 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: sorry we're all programmers here try #computejerisjojicience < 1326367833 793368 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: what do you mean by injective, here? < 1326367848 28478 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: all configs that have successors have different successors < 1326367859 670706 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so all except the final config that doesn't have a successor. < 1326367889 388484 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I was going to pigeonhole principle it, but then realised there are infinitely many states (obviously) < 1326367901 824834 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1326367901 980609 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1326367903 515145 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1326367904 50158 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well infinitely many configurations < 1326367905 298754 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1326367905 835847 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1326367912 973057 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-84.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326367944 307163 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a state part taken from a finite set and a finite number of counters. values for those together i call a config < 1326367944 713822 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :where's the logs repo? < 1326367962 502407 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll do this on my local machine, easier that way < 1326367975 510015 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-205-40.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1326367995 522469 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: !logs < 1326368000 366726 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :from this we'd get that stability of a CA from a zero entropy SFT is undecidable < 1326368000 905856 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!logs < 1326368018 191569 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :by running the machine backwards and some magic < 1326368044 531463 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1326368095 843968 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: I don't see an obvious reason why reversibility would suddenly make termination decidable in an infinite-state program < 1326368099 699344 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but ofc that's not the same thing as a proof < 1326368200 482329 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :reversibility certainly doesn't, but the specific problem statement might. < 1326368230 338241 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :reversible minsky machines have a lot of undecidable problems, but we need a concrete reduction < 1326368237 618619 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: wait, how many counters does this machine have? < 1326368253 294755 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :as many as you like. two will suffice. < 1326368262 529905 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(two always suffices) < 1326368265 44763 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, ofc < 1326368269 71142 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: zero, one, infinity < 1326368290 602147 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't apply when you can prove something different happens at 2. < 1326368301 651894 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/ob9oj/til_about_planethaskellorg/c3g3rfp?context=1 < 1326368305 113810 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, this one is way better: http://hpaste.org/56369 < 1326368306 52420 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you know what you have to do... < 1326368307 433286 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but we're not restricting the counters anyway. < 1326368329 681067 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: you need pseq, not seq < 1326368331 250553 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :given various assumptions about GHC, it even won't segfault < 1326368334 912390 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :F- sloppy < 1326368337 314437 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sux < 1326368337 470661 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I think) < 1326368341 371541 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're right though < 1326368344 704652 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hangs head in shame < 1326368347 463838 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the journal version, we're planning to completely characterize the types of computation CA can do depending on the particular subshift < 1326368372 739997 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(zero entropy sofic subshift) < 1326368382 260043 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( unsafePerformIO ( evaluate x >> return y ) ) < 1326368398 136444 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it will be so awesome and no one will ever read it :) < 1326368400 725034 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: isn't that just pseq but slower < 1326368409 418570 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: heh < 1326368413 307723 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes I feel that way about my papers < 1326368416 29623 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :unsafePerformIO (return $! x >>= return >> return y) -- i cba to expand it beyond this < 1326368426 582491 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :unsafeDupablePerformIO ( evaluate x >> return y ) < 1326368431 20382 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, no, pseq uses that lazy trick < 1326368438 101694 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fix (>=> return) < 1326368485 314366 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :we have 7 papers of original research now where i'm a coauthor (or sole author), so technically i could write up two phd theses based on those. < 1326368493 962762 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway i think this one is almost a reasonable api for users < 1326368500 616803 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :except just# nothing# == nothing# < 1326368507 411097 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(4 are required, 3 would probably be tolerated) < 1326368509 566308 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: just special-case nothing# in just# < 1326368515 196431 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :bleh < 1326368520 106229 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: by dynamically allocating new nothings < 1326368524 184731 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :too many pigeons, not enough holes < 1326368533 367754 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder if elliott will love me if i do two phds this year. < 1326368542 243479 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: y < 1326368544 402122 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, at the same time? < 1326368550 27741 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: yes. < 1326368554 227024 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- A nullary constructor gives a distinguished boxed value. < 1326368554 383327 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Nothing# = Nothing# < 1326368558 152338 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :note that i'm planning to do 0 < 1326368558 844515 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: so if it's boxed what does the # represent < 1326368560 16025 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has never "done" anyone with a PhD < 1326368568 335682 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, dope < 1326368575 922911 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :2003-09-25 15:50:10: I'm afraid I'll end up writing a mathematica-based befunge interpreter. happens with every new language I learn. < 1326368584 541390 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: ah < 1326368609 953016 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Never did. (Or if I did, I've forgotten about it.) < 1326368613 693365 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :man now i'm embarrassed i've never slept with anyone who has a graduate degree < 1326368621 942778 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :much less two of them at the same time < 1326368622 98604 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :good, I'm vaguely glad you didn't < 1326368633 864806 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems my hatred for mathematica is greater than my love for befunge < 1326368657 61677 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: does masturbation count? < 1326368658 442381 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did some "pretty pictures with IFS" and that was about it. < 1326368661 220249 :cheater!~cheater@dslb-084-057-012-103.pools.arcor-ip.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1326368670 877376 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i don't have a graduate degree, so no < 1326368683 853142 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know, someone without a PhD, programming Haskell < 1326368685 330897 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't make the rules based on whether you would win o_O < 1326368687 154120 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Earn Earn Earn Earn Money Money Online Poundpyramid.com" < 1326368687 693078 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds impossible but here i am < 1326368694 347302 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't look like a plausible search query… < 1326368727 403172 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: did you at least get your degree in haskell < 1326368733 902817 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the most academic of subjects < 1326368748 973614 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :the nonexistent degree? < 1326368749 851043 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i know i want to earn earn earn earn money money online poundpyramid.com < 1326368760 124491 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :poundpyramid.com sounds legit enough < 1326368779 82077 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a pound scheme < 1326368791 439971 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: possibly is, spambots often spam the names of legit sites to try to beat them in the search rankings < 1326368806 327035 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so many people search for a site rather than just visiting it… < 1326368857 448608 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's squatted < 1326368889 331221 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(diff) (hist) . . Language list‎; 07:32 . . (-790) . . 76.174.173.118 (Talk) (dag yall they was spammin up that shizzle i love this site i do not wanna see some spammed up sheezy) < 1326368889 487361 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(diff) (hist) . . Language list‎; 03:48 . . (+266) . . 149.255.39.50 (Talk) (Kathy, the content you have graciously shared with us every once in a while is both inspiring and entertaining. And a blog is the perfect medium for this. A lot of the content is about your style and) < 1326368901 544519 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :2004-09-14 21:49:24: what's rms? 21:51:31: ZeroOne: richard stallman, stallman.org < 1326368907 487357 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1326368950 52274 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: also, 2004-11-04 is an awesome log, read all of it (it's also very short) < 1326368983 680629 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it's certainly short < 1326369005 140863 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :2004-11-05 is in the same "genre". < 1326369025 922630 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: haha, two days later slava joins < 1326369032 810325 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :who's slava? < 1326369037 602136 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: pestov < 1326369042 711885 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, right < 1326369047 346078 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have heard of him, but can't remember why < 1326369048 48666 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, jDoctor, I remembe that name from old #concatenative logs... I guess it must have been mentioned there < 1326369050 872071 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: jEdit, Factor < 1326369055 461129 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, OK < 1326369060 111658 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember now < 1326369090 800812 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, this channel really has got more active over time < 1326369093 136405 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though it feels like less < 1326369097 695212 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's got less ontopic, though < 1326369106 7147 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :03:35:33: i'm working on stack effect inference for postfix languages < 1326369106 203222 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe, factor has that < 1326369114 447566 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: feels like less? < 1326369121 831087 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the last time people said this channel was dying was like 2005 < 1326369128 250855 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't think it's less active < 1326369135 305023 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just that I have rose-tinted memories of it < 1326369144 57439 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :come to think of it, I probably considered bsmnt_bot ontopic < 1326369165 388955 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, are you talking about activity as number of lines said or number of persons saying stuff? < 1326369171 896878 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh heh, just came across Gregor's first visit to the channel, advertising FYB < 1326369177 540949 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: pretty much any plausible metric < 1326369184 613390 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even absolute amount of ontopic conversation, possibly < 1326369184 881070 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :because elliott talks a lot (and so did I use to, I think I'm less active these days) < 1326369187 575690 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(rather than proportion) < 1326369190 277714 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so do I < 1326369194 238734 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The number of "q" letters spoken. < 1326369205 447780 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :08:28:34: why do you have those discussions at 05-06am? < 1326369205 604084 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :08:39:28: I don't < 1326369205 604263 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :08:44:29: 05:50:44 < heatsink> ooh, you do continuations too! < 1326369205 604365 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :08:44:32: see, with proof. < 1326369217 251152 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, you should do a new graph showing who spoke most during the last year or so < 1326369218 96159 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I hadn't heard of time zones yet. < 1326369226 826255 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: :D < 1326369228 882100 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're so confusing. < 1326369239 968615 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's now... but it's not now now somewhere else. < 1326369246 181234 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's, like... not now. Now. < 1326369253 573334 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I'd like to amend that request: fizzie: you should do a new graph showing me to be the top in whatever it is you're grapinh. < 1326369262 990529 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also it could be yesterday or tomorrow now. < 1326369266 72229 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hah < 1326369268 481064 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :*mind blown* < 1326369269 230913 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: It is. < 1326369288 502159 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:22:04: anybody thought about building a smart compiler that could optimize by replacing poor algorithms with better ones? < 1326369288 658623 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:22:44: so if the programmer has used e.g. bubble sort the compiler would detect that and actually use quick sort < 1326369310 255598 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sufficiently genius compiler < 1326369313 782773 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't it always two dates on earth except in one specific instant? < 1326369325 695158 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably would be mostly useless, because it's easier to just use library sort rather than implement it yourself < 1326369331 470946 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(per 24h period of course) < 1326369335 42709 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no, sometimes it's three < 1326369338 596262 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:31:20: not related, but mooz could perhaps say something here about his "random programs" experiments. < 1326369338 752472 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:31:37: hmm < 1326369338 752659 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:31:40: it's esoteric enough. < 1326369338 752766 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:32:14: apparently he keeps finding composite-number-factoring algorithms at a surprisingly high rate. :p < 1326369342 503245 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are timezones that are more than 24 hours off UTC < 1326369342 930028 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: do tell, eight years later < 1326369347 376528 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh okay < 1326369355 705060 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, then I guess there are always 2 or 3 ones then < 1326369358 293275 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe the compiler could identify pieces of code that seem to remake an stdlib algo and give a warning though < 1326369372 816856 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also you mean 12 hours off? < 1326369377 545780 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I don't think there are; I mean, there are timezones with more than 24 hours difference between them, but... < 1326369391 846916 :cheater!~cheater@dslb-084-057-040-142.pools.arcor-ip.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326369393 137514 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, the channel turned 9 years old last month < 1326369405 150881 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh nice, and we completely missed the bday < 1326369413 364812 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: has it been logged from the start? < 1326369418 451465 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: almost < 1326369424 103653 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I thought there were < 1326369431 713490 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I must have meant more than 12 < 1326369439 420849 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1326369446 49364 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :EFNet #esoterica: 9 dec 2002; lament proposes OpenProjects 8 dec (?!); "OK, so now we can be found at OPN, #esoteric (it's ours!)." 9 dec < 1326369452 749034 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway why more than 12 hours off? That is just silly < 1326369457 918096 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh -- 8 dec was in UTC-0800 < 1326369465 47873 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yeah, 9 dec < 1326369466 415894 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, befunge.org was all the rage back in 2005 < 1326369470 71719 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: when are your early logs from, again? < 1326369471 498535 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, 'cause it sucks if your neighbors are on a different day from you < 1326369473 664436 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and now it's been gone so long people can't even be bothered to squat it < 1326369484 319356 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :either that, or fizzie is hanging onto the domain but isn't using it for anything < 1326369487 872975 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It goes up to UTC+14 in one direction, but only UTC-12 the other. < 1326369488 678205 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, hm < 1326369496 851149 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: he noted it was going to be dropped in here < 1326369497 695701 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :14? wow < 1326369498 904372 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: No, I let it expire. < 1326369523 123116 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that case, I'm shocked it isn't being squatted < 1326369530 223918 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought expired domains got squatted forever just i ncase < 1326369531 201903 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :like the Chatham Islands are 45 minutes ahead of New Zealand rather than 23 hours 15 minutes behind < 1326369559 420372 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: so /did/ you ever teach your girlfriend befunge? < 1326369576 962407 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, 45 minutes. So not even full hour steps... < 1326369582 50856 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Disagreed. In my way of thinking, scopes are static, and I/O is no more < 1326369582 206324 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in violation of scopes than passing of parameters or other such phenomena." < 1326369583 322870 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"As a British colony, Kiribati was centered in the Gilbert Islands, just west of the old date line. Upon independence in 1979, the new republic acquired the Phoenix and Line Islands from the United States and the country found itself straddling the date line. Government offices on opposite sides of the line could only communicate by radio or telephone on the four days of the week when both sides experienced weekdays simultaneously. A con < 1326369583 590895 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sequence of this time zone revision was that Kiribati, by virtue of its easternmost territory, the Line Islands, including the inhabited Kiritimati island, started the year 2000 on its territory before any other country on earth, a feature which the Kiribati government capitalized upon as a potential tourist draw." < 1326369586 179873 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't recall when they are, and it's always such a chore to find them. There weren't very many days' worth of them. < 1326369592 537614 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : languages that definitely should stay in wikipedia, are in my opinion the following: brainfuck, befunge, thue, malbolge, unlambda < 1326369593 610689 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: seems like esoteric discussion being off-topic dates back to the lists :P < 1326369614 543907 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: remember when we were discussing the list of top-stream esolangs? < 1326369619 121992 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(UTC+14) < 1326369630 677662 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, yeah, half-hour timezones are pretty common; 15 minute less so but there are some < 1326369635 466702 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that's the same as our list, plus thue and malbolge, minus underload as it hadn't been invented yet < 1326369645 155588 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Well, there are about ~40 days from the founding of the channel to clog. < 1326369650 170404 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, whitespace, false and shakespeare were suggested in that conversation < 1326369659 346988 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: err, which list? < 1326369670 67643 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, I want a 2.512 minute timezone. < 1326369670 753614 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1326369684 288384 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1326369685 673663 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Well, I've spoken about the topic quite a few times, but not so much that you could call it "teach". < 1326369686 745058 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: we were discussing a while back a list of esolangs that were best-known or most worthy of study < 1326369687 280564 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or any other similarly small offset) < 1326369693 321080 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the classics of esolangs, as it were < 1326369701 391989 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: my list was brainfuck, intercal, unlambda, underload, malbolge, I think < 1326369720 462951 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'd add /// and BCT, personally < 1326369722 369961 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and strongly reject Thue < 1326369728 718106 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if it is more well-known than /// < 1326369730 374690 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, a few countries have declared their timezone to be centered on the capital < 1326369735 172552 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :my list is toi, clue and oklotalk. < 1326369738 477675 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :leading to shit like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UTC%2B04:51 and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UTC%E2%88%9200:44 < 1326369747 128677 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :^__^ < 1326369748 72720 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: oklopol-clue, or keymaker-clue? < 1326369756 888662 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: keymaker-clue obviously < 1326369762 37883 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol-clue is just silly < 1326369762 575254 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've heard rumors of a Riyadh Mean Solar Time which adjusted every day based on sunrise in Riyadh < 1326369780 84316 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, heh < 1326369781 730806 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of the few timezones so fucked it's not in the tz database < 1326369853 172647 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: "At 03:16 24/07/2001 -0500, Chris Pressey wrote: >Has anyone organized an esoteric IRC meeting place yet?" -- "Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 20:39:33 -0700 (MST) ... I hang out on EFNet when I am home, nick: calamari. But, I can also stay in undernet irc.undernet.org port 6667 channel #esolang" < 1326369856 205651 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, predecessors. < 1326369862 983200 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I ever joined *that*, though. < 1326369872 535071 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: "I can also". < 1326369886 1216 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I imagine he joined it just because of that message. < 1326369893 124615 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And left the next time his IRC client restarted. < 1326369893 566882 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, I first read that as Rlyeh < 1326369894 943513 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1326369914 332753 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1326369955 727964 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :R'lyeh standard time. I wonder what that would be like < 1326370016 700662 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 12:39:12 +0300 (EEST), atehwa writes: "As for a real answer about _IRC_ channels, I think somebody founded a channel in DALnet." < 1326370032 216390 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :atehwa: ELABORATE < 1326370061 875809 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I bet there's a flourishing esolangs community on some other network that we've just never heard of. < 1326370068 704998 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do we know we're the real #esoteric and there's not one with 500 ppl on another network o_O < 1326370074 67292 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1326370075 993521 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1326370078 975477 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's practically guaranteed now. < 1326370082 418742 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1326370085 90574 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh dear fuck < 1326370098 680748 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://stackoverflow.com/questions/8834582/is-haskell-a-lisp-dialect < 1326370113 81859 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone actually voted that up < 1326370123 654954 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esoteric_programming_languages#Internet_community "There is a mailing list, but it is nearly abandoned and most discussion happens on the wiki (see below) or on IRC." Perhaps *they* are the "on IRC" part of that. < 1326370194 767801 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Turing completeness is a favorite topic of discussion, since it is not immediately obvious whether or not a language is Turing complete, and it often takes rather large intuitive leaps to come to a solution." is this really correct usage of "intuitive leap"? < 1326370203 390901 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1326370216 890428 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a feeling that article is very bad < 1326370226 737419 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :idea: esolang that's forward-polish, but not because it parses forward-polish, rather because it has a stack of functions < 1326370230 64730 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was wondering if i'm just misunderstanding the sentence it fundamentally < 1326370251 893486 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like you do reverse-polish with a stack of values < 1326370260 26481 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, now I'm wondering if you could make it concatenative < 1326370262 112704 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, in May 2008 the sentence read "There is a mailing list, but it is nearly abandoned and most discussion happens on the wiki (see below)." < 1326370262 269146 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: it fundamentally < 1326370264 126230 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and thus a sort of dual to Underload < 1326370264 796936 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess it often does require some intuitive leaps: "well brainfuck can simulate itself so obv it's tc" < 1326370279 246256 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes not just fundamentally but IT fundamentally < 1326370283 905060 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: there are sub-TC languages that can simulate themselves < 1326370288 799333 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Text, for example < 1326370293 392424 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1326370301 168332 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you'd need quite an intuitive leap to prove it tc < 1326370309 763443 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chris, you're saying a lot of silly things in this mailing list archive. :/ < 1326370311 9929 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some "oerjan" dude has added the bit about IRC. I wonder if e means the five-thousand-person real community on NeverHeardNet, or this channel. < 1326370323 753907 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: He's the spy sent to keep us in the dark. < 1326370324 827865 :cheater!~cheater@dslb-084-057-040-142.pools.arcor-ip.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1326370378 792712 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if there's life outside earth? :O that would be even worse < 1326370389 315903 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: do you consider Ruby a Lisp dialect? < 1326370403 90149 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: all languages are lisp dialects, apart from scheme < 1326370406 615692 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I never seen a channel with 5000 persons in it except when I was watching a stress test of an ircd (using bots) < 1326370407 290154 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :scheme is a clojure dialect < 1326370448 380417 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CAN SOMEONE PLEASE EXPLAIN TO ME WHY SOMEBODY UPVOTED THAT QUESTION, CHRIST < 1326370481 232916 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Me neither, but maybe NeverHeardNet is much more popular. (On this side of the fence, Ubuntu seems to have 1507 people at the moment.) < 1326370483 18533 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but clojure is a lisp dialect by those rules. So anything that is a clojure dialect is thus a lisp dialect < 1326370496 909129 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: educated stupid < 1326370505 434678 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've seen a channel where there was so much traffic that your messages appeared hours after you sent them. < 1326370513 186634 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yes #ubuntu and #gentoo were like the largest channels on here last I checked. Not sure if #gentoo is still as large < 1326370513 992828 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :there were only 4 ppl there though < 1326370546 749156 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: #ubuntu, #archlinux and #debian were the only ones in my LIST >1000 of a moment ago. < 1326370559 808493 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still all Lunnux distrubtions. < 1326370576 411077 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :LIST supports queries like that? < 1326370581 773784 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm I guess #ubuntu has grown, back when I checked it and #gentoo were about the same size (~950) < 1326370584 175440 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: was it vjn < 1326370592 130918 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :freenode LIST does. < 1326370599 46291 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: part of it < 1326370600 691512 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes #archlinux is quite large < 1326370601 672567 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :freenode? More like linuxnode, amirite? < 1326370611 656032 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: #gentoo is only 852. < 1326370627 549547 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the second most popular linux distro? < 1326370631 428476 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, nowdays yes < 1326370640 349385 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it used to be larger < 1326370643 151850 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was on my irc server, my friend made this rpg and people spammed a few megabytes of commands there. < 1326370658 696975 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :#pyt "NO LOL" hon has 923 people on it. < 1326370666 707940 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1326370674 973603 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :no lol! < 1326370679 641543 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, on which network? < 1326370682 190788 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, the phone spambot that keeps contacting me seems to have hired a bunch of new voice actors < 1326370690 236693 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: This one. < 1326370691 944635 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, oh #python < 1326370694 12743 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not #pyt < 1326370695 288990 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless it's two different spambots that just happen to use the same script < 1326370696 988517 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1326370721 477483 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes, I wanted a "firstname 'nickname' lastname" format, so had to split. < 1326370729 60609 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you get spam over your phone? ouch < 1326370737 34037 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, did the wire-crossing problem ever turn out to be meaningful? < 1326370739 457755 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: only at work < 1326370755 304644 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :still wow < 1326370756 955858 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was interested in it when I got into esolangs, and invented EL1 and Formula < 1326370761 331115 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: #pyt"NO LOL"hon is the best way to do that. < 1326370771 382557 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Or #python "NO LOL" #python. < 1326370778 627617 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : #python 923 NO LOL | NO PROJECT EULER | [...] < 1326370780 135040 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1326370785 391694 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do they hate project euler? < 1326370793 928422 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :With that many people, you have to rule with an IRON FIST. < 1326370799 10683 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it sucks < 1326370818 90386 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol can some1 help me with project euler #1 < 1326370821 683350 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heres my code < 1326370825 751838 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :class Euler: < 1326370826 558864 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :do it < 1326370828 753187 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll join too < 1326370829 23144 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : def __init__ < 1326370829 426543 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1326370830 71009 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1326370830 229149 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 TOPIC #esoteric :"NO LOL | NO PROJECT EULER" | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1326370831 64169 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :where < 1326370834 929752 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if x=4 : < 1326370835 372211 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1326370836 199996 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1326370838 308661 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1326370858 140155 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, wth is up with the blank lines? < 1326370866 94019 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lazy < 1326370884 762119 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi NICK :oklopol < 1326370893 618345 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : cpressey: ever consider a timecube esolang? < 1326370917 646566 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what's the question? < 1326370920 871970 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd love to help < 1326370923 436861 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Hello tobegnuf: < 1326370928 708569 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://projecteuler.net/problem=1 < 1326370934 919007 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, fungot's long-lost distant relative < 1326370936 72199 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: mrs randzio-plath asks whether the authority will provide this. as an auxiliary language, it can make a formal proposal that, however, the most important, namely how to determine which groups are covered by the text, as you have pointed out, that there is scope to use lower interest rates: long-term interest rates in 1994 because in 1993 the commission adopted the draft directive for the third year in succession, the ve < 1326370949 444811 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: fungot isn't the first funge-98 bot? < 1326370950 882937 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: mr president, at a time when this house's declarations of goodwill are reflected in salaries and in professional life, and i can assure you that we have to provide more substantial financial and other intermediaries are already well behind schedule: it is not work that could be, and is presenting a new directive to the mining of metal fnord. upon my refusal, the perspectives have not been implemented for twenty years n < 1326370956 515950 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:09:37: JOIN < 1326370957 741401 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:09:38: Hello xij < 1326370960 868929 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :" John: I can't reproduce the problem, and I don't see where the memory could be leaking" he's trying to REPRODUCE a problem he already solved :o pythonists are crazy! < 1326370965 214127 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's unclear whether fungebot was -98 or -93 < 1326370966 622510 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: lmao < 1326371008 684812 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i solve a problem i immediately start running to keep my state of blissful thinking i did it rightness. < 1326371036 737266 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps it's a time-traveling fungot. < 1326371037 407803 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: mr president, i would like to say, i support the amendments that we tabled and opens the way to resolve the armenia embargo and border issue. lastly, the commission is obliged to support the amendments made to mr jarzembowski. < 1326371037 675975 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm when was that funge bot from? < 1326371053 939684 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastlog < 1326371061 283883 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :already gone way past that page < 1326371062 770833 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I've been reading The Haskell Road to Logic, Maths and Programming by Doets and Eijck 2004. It seems to be a well respected book, but I was struck when it claims that Haskell is a member of the Lisp family. Would anyone else agree with that? I would characterise Lisps with s-expressions, impure functions, and lists as the only composite data structure. Haskell has none of that. What do you think?" < 1326371063 38516 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1326371063 195029 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 < 1326371063 195230 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1326371064 474397 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't echo to the channel < 1326371064 630465 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I disagree, but what was the argument the authors gave? – Tobu Jan 14 '11 at 22:24 < 1326371066 532390 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 < 1326371068 488248 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1326371072 322274 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :None! They are giving a general introduction and say 'as a functional language, Haskell is part of the Lisp family along with ML, Occam and Clean'. – Bob Bobson Jan 14 '11 at 22:29 < 1326371072 322425 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and did it use netcat or SOCK? And can anyone find the source? < 1326371077 997357 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastlog < 1326371079 383048 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: did you remember to use -i? < 1326371082 215557 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2005-07-19.txt:00:14:18: Hello }^nevaR^{ < 1326371084 474760 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, it's going to take me a while to check every mention of befunge in the channel ever < 1326371088 11875 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2005-07-19.txt:00:14:18: Hello }^nevaR^{ < 1326371089 908495 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1326371091 339457 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott NICK :}^nevaR^{ < 1326371091 876415 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yep < 1326371092 426201 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1326371102 74362 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, do you know who made it? < 1326371104 787476 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: By a curious coincidence, my logs don't show a "fungebot" at all. It must've been during one of my periodic absences from the channel. < 1326371115 616242 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: jix < 1326371118 278898 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1326371121 221733 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :To think, that I missed a fungebot. :/ < 1326371122 698480 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :}^nevaR^{: you never asked #python for help with your problem < 1326371124 650011 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :who is here right now < 1326371126 298825 :}^nevaR^{!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: You weren't around much circa 2005, were you? < 1326371126 703058 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you could ask him < 1326371127 655771 :}^nevaR^{!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: sry < 1326371131 334284 :}^nevaR^{!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: constantly idle < 1326371148 53468 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1326371148 662462 :cheater!~cheater@dslb-084-057-001-153.pools.arcor-ip.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326371151 82571 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a nickping sometimes works < 1326371155 850685 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a /msg sometimes works if a nickping doesn't < 1326371167 321827 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :jix: hi! Do you have any info on that fungebot from 2005? Was it in befunge-93 or funge-98? And do you still have the source? < 1326371179 55948 :}^nevaR^{!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell jix hi < 1326371179 457625 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1326371198 971184 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :jix tried to do something with thue once and failed. i don't recall what. < 1326371219 287456 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:36:55: Could you write this exact line to this channel? < 1326371220 493176 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:37:46: Could I write what exact line to this channel? < 1326371231 130425 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the joys of IRP quines < 1326371241 37631 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was back when that was not trivial < 1326371252 66627 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :}^nevaR^{: I have missing months of 2003-06, 2003-08, 2005-09, 2006-04, 2007-04, 2007-10, 2008-01 and 2008-02. On all other months (since 2002-12) I've been on-channel at least once during the month. < 1326371267 36392 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: were you in jail? < 1326371281 248434 :}^nevaR^{!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: impressively, that is-haskell-a-lisp question is a /duplicate/ < 1326371299 738715 :}^nevaR^{!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: How many days out of the total days the channel has existed have you been present? Percentage-wise. < 1326371308 487761 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, for any arbitrary language you only just heard of, it makes sense to ask if it's a lisp variant < 1326371309 718877 :}^nevaR^{!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I need to calculate how aggressively to request your logs from you. < 1326371320 60014 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I thought you used a bouncer? < 1326371322 551688 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's only a stupid question if you already know the answer < 1326371330 371823 :}^nevaR^{!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the other one was going based on a /haskell book/ claiming it was a lisp dialect < 1326371332 554578 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: In 2003-06 I probably was "working" (civil service) in Vankeinhoidon koulutuskeskus, if that counts. < 1326371336 963625 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :-fizzie- VERSION bip-0.8.2 < 1326371337 119754 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :-fizzie- VERSION xchat 2.8.8 Linux 2.6.35-31-generic [x86_64/2.00GHz/SMP] < 1326371337 119864 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :-fizzie- VERSION irssi v0.8.15 < 1326371337 768385 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1326371339 913284 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably yes < 1326371350 252742 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh that counts. < 1326371356 747986 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that counts to fucking million. < 1326371364 670816 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Nowadays; but only since 2009-03; before that, irssi. < 1326371369 463412 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1326371375 166575 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, bip is a bouncer is it? < 1326371383 466304 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: could you translate for the non-finns in the audience? < 1326371392 317568 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes. (Not that I had a disconnection habit with the irssi connection either.) < 1326371398 802168 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :education center for taking care of prisoners. < 1326371400 696321 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1326371402 170481 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :is a stupid translation < 1326371420 38107 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't quite understand what it means so that's the best i can do. < 1326371422 53624 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's been renamed to Rikosseuraamusalan koulutuskeskus now, anyway. < 1326371433 324326 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what is it for? < 1326371435 84892 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure how you educate taking care of prisoners < 1326371435 890738 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The Training Institute for Prison and Probation Services" is the official translation. < 1326371436 627974 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: so were you sent there as a punishment? < 1326371442 773596 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1326371445 628139 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :punishment for p < 1326371447 103054 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :askdjf < 1326371449 84597 :}^nevaR^{!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: punishment for being finnish < 1326371452 952787 :Patashu!Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 , Skype: patashu0 . < 1326371458 468578 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Civil service; it's an alternative for the regular compulsory military service. < 1326371467 196551 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, you still have conscription? < 1326371468 846916 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :punishment for being a latent rapist < 1326371469 825604 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1326371470 766534 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ah, I see < 1326371472 816791 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, male < 1326371489 16112 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: I don't know, females are convicted of rape sometimes < 1326371491 413716 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although much more rarely < 1326371499 269972 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah can you imagine :D < 1326371500 934281 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mostly just fiddled with PageMaker; they publish books (sometimes by prisoners, but also textbooks on their field, and a yearly "newsletter" thing). < 1326371501 705102 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(typically the sort that involves drugs rather than physical violence) < 1326371525 857633 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, INTERCAL's EOF handling is hilarious < 1326371528 301024 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"you CHEATED on me?" "no i was raped!" < 1326371531 659724 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh? < 1326371534 482213 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :is what that means. < 1326371535 684927 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it crashes on EOF, with no way to catch the error or seeing it's coming) < 1326371558 184996 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so what do people normally do to avoid this? < 1326371558 988516 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: We do, yes, unless you invent a proper excuse. < 1326371576 406233 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, like medical reasons? < 1326371582 963869 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: they don't < 1326371588 775967 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1326371589 217927 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing you /can/ do about it < 1326371595 530068 :}^nevaR^{!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1326371604 730154 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, is this for c-intercal or clc-intercal? < 1326371609 444660 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can do a lot of things. unless you're a perfectly healthy male. < 1326371613 185036 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fml < 1326371615 215731 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it'd be fun to implement some way to catch the error < 1326371620 478463 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: -72 < 1326371623 144370 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1326371634 959233 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Medical, psychological, religious, or moral. (But the latter one will get you thrown in jail as a "conscientious objector" if you also refuse the non-military alternative.) < 1326371635 897800 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I assume neither ick nor clc crashes? < 1326371651 150371 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure they do, it'd be incompatible otherwise < 1326371660 368916 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't not implement the spec < 1326371672 399910 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, pretty easy to join a suitable religion like a year before or such < 1326371687 18477 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then leave it a bit later < 1326371702 252242 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I'm not sure if there are any recognized religions that'd forbid the civil service part. < 1326371708 398591 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1326371713 402437 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :jediism? < 1326371716 921744 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it's a weird thing to forbid. < 1326371727 791918 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm, is that starwars related? < 1326371739 399083 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :non-military civil service isn't something I'd object to anyway, though, although I would object to the military version < 1326371745 252358 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes, originally < 1326371752 195064 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a reference to the jedi census phenomenon < 1326371752 501753 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :jehova's witnesses are exempt from all afaiu? < 1326371757 381037 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1326371759 125707 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1326371764 612190 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :where there was a worldwide movement to claim to be a jedi on censuses < 1326371772 337193 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1326371772 739617 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the result that many countries ended up recognising it as a religion < 1326371778 419800 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, really? :D < 1326371797 185165 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(there's at least one court case where someone successfully claimed that their jedi religion forbade them from doing something that would otherwise be mandatory, too) < 1326371801 43460 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: that was the whole /point/ < 1326371814 839430 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I'm just a bit scared that it worked < 1326371835 68034 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: I think they are, yes. Also people living in Åland. < 1326371860 260885 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jedi_census_phenomenon < 1326371883 72431 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, apparently no /official/ recognition; jediism was assigned a convenience number on the census processing thing because it was so popular < 1326371890 971248 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that was apparently only to make statistics easier or something < 1326371930 21162 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, do UK still do censuses? Sweden doesn't any more < 1326371932 967344 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : In Scotland 14,052 people stated that Jedi was their current religion (14,014 "Jedi", 24 "Jedi Order" and 14 "Sith") < 1326371936 539560 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes, but rarely < 1326371940 700367 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's something like once every ten years < 1326371944 370773 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe once every five < 1326371945 76176 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1326371950 87104 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is quite often < 1326371972 711167 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are 70-80 people who refuse both the military and the civil service; Amnesty classifies them as "prisoners of conscience", which bumps up Finland's "score" on that considerably. Otherwise we'd totally lose to all kinds of regimes. < 1326371979 593249 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :70-80 people per year, that is. < 1326371992 970859 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've only encountered censuses in complexity theory < 1326372000 350768 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : In 2009, a Jedi was banned from a Tesco Supermarket in Bangor, North Wales, for refusing to remove his hood on a religious basis. The following year, a Jedi was thrown out of a Jobcentre in Southend, Essex, for refusing to remove his hood; he later received an apology. < 1326372017 88207 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1326372027 13595 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I wonder why they do that < 1326372039 278281 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems a weird thing to make that heavy a stand about < 1326372046 582386 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1326372058 102813 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: For many it's an official protest against the length of the civil service; it's about double the most common length for the military one. < 1326372058 772748 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :not wanting to waste a year of your life is stupid now? < 1326372069 336986 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "Conscientious objectors to military service continued to be imprisoned for refusing the alternative civilian service due to its punitive and discriminatory length. The length of alternative civilian service remained at 362 days, more than double the most common military service period of 180 days." < 1326372079 374172 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: aren't you still wasting it, just in jail? < 1326372085 709753 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The jail term is shorter. < 1326372090 476538 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: less of it, and there's more freedom < 1326372092 781356 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I see < 1326372098 6007 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Two days of civil service translate to one day of jail. < 1326372128 448531 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And with a very few exceptions they are in these "open prisons". < 1326372132 297893 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you can study and whatever. < 1326372153 742409 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I would answer sith on such a question btw. < 1326372168 13718 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and more importantly, you don't have to do meaningless work < 1326372169 662666 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: really? < 1326372173 315645 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :like taking care of old people < 1326372177 692119 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, sure, why not? < 1326372189 634317 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :or learning to kill healthy people < 1326372205 450985 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: clearly the appropriate punishment should be community service, not a prison term < 1326372206 662744 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it is not like religion should be listed on a census form anyway < 1326372216 575447 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the latter is not useless if you want to become a serial killer < 1326372230 58967 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: I know quite a few people who've just done research at the university where they were studying "around" the civil service term. < 1326372235 177100 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would they teach that? < 1326372253 245699 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean "around"? < 1326372258 429409 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Before, and after. < 1326372259 7343 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: in the army? < 1326372263 749809 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you know what armies are for? < 1326372263 905402 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I see < 1326372271 668248 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :forgot about the army option < 1326372278 846312 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my mind excluded it as an option that nobody sane would take < 1326372287 285079 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. no not in the civil service < 1326372298 346007 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Some do civil service for six months which would match the military service, and then refuse; their remaining six months are then translated to a three-month prison term. < 1326372316 979307 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey QUIT :Quit: The Other Game < 1326372326 263809 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: it's almost as if people are being tempted to break the law, if there's an exchange rate for it < 1326372335 115665 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about alternating days of civil service and prison? < 1326372346 245762 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've always wanted to try prison out anyway but i don't actually want to commit a crime. < 1326372349 815909 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't go back from the prison to civil service. < 1326372352 821330 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If Jedi were counted it would have been the second largest religion in New Zealand. T" < 1326372355 539290 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/T// < 1326372383 147738 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a one-month common "training period" for the civil service, but I don't think it was much about killing. I mostly learned that some people do crazy things (aluminium foil wrapped beer-potatoes?) on a campfire. < 1326372392 791919 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might be slightly different during the wintertime. < 1326372404 377068 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I think there was also some CPR training maybe? < 1326372418 814957 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got a free tea+pastry coupon for maintaining Darkhive. < 1326372427 740519 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Managed to describe it as a cultural act. < 1326372447 307462 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, darkhive being? < 1326372523 615427 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :2006-04-28 22:18:55: a funge would suit an irc bot well, i suspect < 1326372570 914181 :jix!~jix@dronf.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I don't have anything about fungebot anymore (and I don't remember working with it) < 1326372571 107332 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :jix: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. < 1326372572 717789 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Uh. There was this Finnish magazine called Demi, core audience teenage girls (13-19 years); they had (well, have) a web forum, which didn't have a search system and expired old threads; Darkhive crawled the site periodically and archived the messages. < 1326372578 219486 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :jix, oh < 1326372586 683730 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :jix, ais523 claimed you were the author < 1326372606 775598 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :jix: well, it was only up there for a day, I assume you've just forgotten about it < 1326372615 166924 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, heh < 1326372618 138787 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, hmm, maybe it was someone else < 1326372629 155713 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastlog fungebot < 1326372636 791492 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2005-07-19.txt:00:14:18: Hello }^nevaR^{ < 1326372645 279010 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastelog fungebot < 1326372653 780424 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1326372655 966384 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.cs.uit.no/~daniels/PingTunnel/ < 1326372656 369396 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.5540 < 1326372659 530841 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :wasn't that the command? < 1326372666 140130 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ptunnel is an application that allows you to reliably tunnel TCP connections to a remote host using ICMP echo request and reply packets, commonly known as ping requests and replies. < 1326372667 256005 :jix!~jix@dronf.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was never fluent in befunge... but I think I did some experiments with other esolangs and irc that never got anywhere < 1326372671 225503 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:06:08: i wrote a crappy ping less sub-minmal befunge irc bot that prints hello msgs with the nick reversed... < 1326372681 6648 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless it's a different jix, it was you < 1326372689 438204 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It gained some amounts of popularity among the users, possibly because it also did not remove messages the official board admins deleted for "unsuitable content". < 1326372703 724351 :jix!~jix@dronf.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh then I probably did... < 1326372706 704990 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, heh < 1326372726 250852 :jix!~jix@dronf.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I never did anything that would remotely qualify as a complete irc bot < 1326372726 407309 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Now you gotta tell us why on earth you decided to write that. < 1326372736 5055 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Also http://thomer.com/icmptx/ < 1326372736 943452 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: kerio is a fan of tunnelling all sorts of things over DNS < 1326372741 677164 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :jix: don't worry, fungebot wouldn't < 1326372783 745123 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ICMPTX and NSTX are I think related.) < 1326372797 629808 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: That guy has written a lot of freeloader internet-tunneling tools. :p < 1326372811 27922 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: His mission in life is to mooch for free stuffs, I suppose. < 1326372813 176267 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, he didn't write that one. < 1326372838 737518 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, it's stolen. Well, in any case. < 1326372844 765556 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: You can't dodge my question!!! < 1326372870 123923 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the depressing thing is, there's almost certainly a way to tunnel HTTP over HTTP already < 1326372884 800752 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It's just that I don't quite recall the motivations. I'm supposing some IRC people were somehow involved. < 1326372903 81812 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know what we need? another esolang competition < 1326372908 980872 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a reasonable number of people actually participating < 1326372940 653418 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that last point might be hard < 1326372955 506776 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, btw when are the results of IOCCC going to be announced? < 1326372955 662678 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I got a cease-and-desist from the magazine editor finally; didn't think it was worth a fight so I took the site down. Some random guy at WaveU asked me for the database dump, though, and ran it for a while longer. < 1326372958 496862 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :6 or so would be reasonable enough < 1326372973 182198 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, heh < 1326372975 135128 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I will accept a blatant but interesting lie, e.g. "Finnish demosceners used to use it to chat ironically". < 1326373031 651869 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not exactly that one, as it wouldn't be interesting now it's been mentioned < 1326373064 500896 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, it would < 1326373065 211083 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, if it was on irc you could search your logs? < 1326373072 804174 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how implausible is it that I would guess the precise truth? < 1326373078 364698 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if it isn't actually true < 1326373145 510311 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it'd be obviously a lie, though < 1326373152 151344 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as well as just being blatant < 1326373156 492290 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I guess I could look for the first mention, but I'm not even sure where in IRC it would be. < 1326373229 944016 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I think "Finnish used to use it to chat ironically" is quite close to the truth, actually. < 1326373280 734789 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, grep -R? < 1326373291 510698 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: See, I can pretend to believe you now! < 1326373335 783825 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Heh; from !assembly, paraphrasing: "[2005-08-05 19:20:37] The demi.fi folks are quite the sceners: darkhive=# select sum(msgs) from dh_thre where tname ilike '%assembly%'; => 473" < 1326373346 78928 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I asked for first mention separately per-channel.) < 1326373352 281837 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1326373371 368069 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, 473 messages containing the substring "assembly". < 1326373468 688918 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think these logs are too new. < 1326373514 572214 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, someone donated me money because of it. < 1326373519 825854 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I... < 1326373595 840808 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Oh, oh oh! I might have just continued from "demikhat". < 1326373598 489757 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: *… < 1326373609 109599 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: See, uh... this is also a bit complicated to explain. < 1326373610 893937 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no < 1326373616 592880 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Go on. < 1326373692 796028 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: They had this flash-based "isometric 3D" chat thing there (before the web forum times); think "Habbo Hotel" or such, except much more limited. I was bored one day, so I packet-sniffed that, reverse-engineered the protocol (it was a custom ASCII-based one) and wrote a "roguelike" client which let you chat there and IIRC do a couple of things the official interface couldn't. < 1326373726 683486 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: You're a strange person. < 1326373757 687528 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :They also had another real-time "text chat" which was actually run over the IRC server of the web-media company that made the pages; I also hung out there with an IRC client and sort-of got to know some of the folks behind the scenes. < 1326373769 38941 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not quite sure of the chronology of all these different forums and chats and such. < 1326373784 444590 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :How did you even come to look at anything related to this magazine? < 1326373804 573617 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :They had another web-forum that Darkhive didn't crawl. (Though I made a 'wget' dump of it scant few days before they wiped it out and started the new forum which Darkhive did index.) < 1326373816 900175 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually come to think of it, that dump might have been the inspiration for Darkhive itself. < 1326373824 683634 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you can blame whoever asked me to do it. < 1326373871 446754 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, I had so forgotten about this. < 1326373916 300870 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently at the civil service training we used the instructor's laptop/projector to watch how Darkhive updated itself, and read some threads using the psql command-line tool. < 1326373927 535991 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And after that I got the free-tea voucher. < 1326373966 865864 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I don't understand Finland. < 1326373977 837660 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not as strange as e.g. Japan. < 1326373981 637850 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or so I have been led to believe. < 1326374055 148862 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sadly, I never finished my other "chat archive" project. < 1326374067 378773 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That would've been called "sharkhive".) < 1326374067 533601 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Charchive. < 1326374069 758448 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1326374084 161931 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It wasn't related to the Demi chats, incidentally. < 1326374098 580851 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, what was it going to archive, then? < 1326374140 182707 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you might enjoy this: http://www.bbctvlicence.com/Please%20do%20not%20write%20below%20the%20line.htm < 1326374143 845383 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :See, there's this midday/midnight SMS-based TV channel chats, they're really horrible. There's some horrible person as a presenter, and then people send all kinds of stupid things in. Really stupid things. And each message costs like real money, but they still keep doing it. < 1326374148 282338 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it reminds me of those train routeing letters < 1326374158 681623 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking, I had this analog TV receiver card, I could've OCR'd and archived those. < 1326374160 560888 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Ohh, yes, I know what you mean. < 1326374210 47018 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Well, sort of. < 1326374255 714447 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: obvious conclusion is that it's to present people writing below the line before the letters are sent < 1326374262 183291 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it would've mostly worked. At least for the digital TV stream, that's significantly less noisy (if a bit compression-artifacty). It's got a particular font and everything. < 1326374313 826866 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: You should archive... < 1326374328 734373 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Uh, do/did (when you had analogue television) you people have a teletext-style thing? < 1326374379 835513 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1326374385 822788 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the system still exists. < 1326374407 877155 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.yle.fi/tekstitv/html/P100_01.html < 1326374408 949853 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Those tend to have vaguely "user-generated" pages. < 1326374412 340115 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can read it in the interwebs. < 1326374421 42498 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Actually you should just archive the whole thing, that would be simplest. < 1326374428 956259 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I've seen this. < 1326374434 350749 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's even hyperlinked! < 1326374435 689920 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it was discussed. < 1326374457 357646 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, but pretend that doesn't exist and do it with a receiver card instead. :p < 1326374485 434815 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only the top half of double-height numbers are hyperlinked, unless I'm mispointing. < 1326374498 521637 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, the "music industry" (not sure what group in particular, and I'm annoyed at the vagueness of the story) are apparently suing Ireland for not making file sharing sufficiently illegal < 1326374549 526475 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: WFM < 1326374555 858550 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: It even hyperlinks URLs, e.g. http://www.yle.fi/tekstitv/html/P101_01.html. < 1326374578 315738 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :speaking of storing chats, I wonder if anyone is recording /b/ and such, iirc 4chan expires old messages? < 1326374591 318065 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope no one is archiving /b/... < 1326374601 123786 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would take a lot of space, probably < 1326374613 211262 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've seen archives of individual threads < 1326374613 480571 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: So it seems; but on the front page, 100, the big numbers (the four headlines, like "107 Urpilainen: ...") seem to have only their top halves clickable. < 1326374668 35960 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Oh, right. < 1326374673 474459 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I suspect the linking may be automated somehow. < 1326374681 255487 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://4chanarchive.org/ < 1326374688 208837 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is at least a thing. < 1326374692 710246 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(NSFW ads, seemingly.) < 1326374702 401315 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it almost certainly also has NSFW content < 1326374716 423285 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: That too, presumably. < 1326374728 62333 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you could find a SFW subset of 4chan, but it'd be mostly missing the point < 1326374776 31861 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, "update May, 7th: we take no more new archival requests. please visit chanarchive.org instead.". < 1326374778 903536 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://chanarchive.org/welcome It's all Web 2.0. < 1326374782 165969 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's even a Twitter. < 1326374834 70071 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: The local "Copyright Information & Anti-Piracy Centre" sued one of our ISPs (and cases for two others are pending), and the lowest court agreed and told the ISP to "block PirateBay", or suffer a nice hundred thousand euro fine; recently the "enforcement unit" of the court came up with a long list of DNS names and three IP addresses for the ISP to block. They've complained to the higher court, but just few days ago "temporarily" enabled the block < 1326374834 263185 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :s while that case is pending. < 1326374844 651520 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: There's quite a debate going on about this. < 1326374860 718738 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yes; I was mostly interested because they'd sued a country rather than an ISP < 1326374861 131664 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Including a bomb threat to the office of the "Anti-Piracy Centre" and so on. < 1326374904 639400 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Is that what Finns call a debate? < 1326374936 962969 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The bomb threat was by "Anonymous Finland". :p < 1326374951 63242 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are almost certainly multiple Anonymouses < 1326374965 396460 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a name like that, and their alleged structure, more than one could exist quite easily without anyone noticing < 1326374970 416699 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :including the organizations themselves < 1326374980 288427 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Well *this* one owns a Twitter account "anon_finland", it's certainly very legit. < 1326375000 750395 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I'm sure it was a very credible threat. < 1326375053 103488 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"thepiratebay.org, www.thepiratebay.org, depiraatbaai.be, www.depiraatbaai.be, piratebay.am, www.piratebay.am, piratebay.net, www.piratebay.net, www.piratebay.no, piratebay.no, piratebay.se, www.piratebay.se, suprnova.com, www.suprnova.com, themusicbay.com, www.themusicbay.com, themusicbay.net, www.themusicbay.net, themusicbay.org, www.themusicbay.org, thepiratebay.am,www.thepiratebay.am, www.thepiratebay.com, thepiratebay.com, thepiratebay.gl, www.thep < 1326375053 259707 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :iratebay.gl, thepiratebay.net, www.thepiratebay.net, www.thepiratebay.se, thepiratebay.se, thepiratebay.org.nyud.net" < 1326375058 774636 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: "The LulzSleigh's taking off! Expect us. And don't miss us: someday, We'll come back (:" RIP anon_finland ages ago -- 2 hours ago < 1326375059 620139 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the list of DNS names they want removed. < 1326375061 990532 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thepiratebay.org.nyud.net <-- LOL < 1326375077 569594 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The best part is, I doubt you can even /search/ with that one. < 1326375090 293698 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's nyud.net? < 1326375092 221507 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And also "194.71.107.15, 194.71.107.19, 194.71.107.18" for any traffic, which I guess does slightly more. < 1326375094 622104 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: coralcdn < 1326375097 961972 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've heard of it but can't remember why < 1326375104 557136 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coral_Content_Distribution_Network < 1326375108 6951 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Coral Content Distribution Network, sometimes called Coral Cache or Coral, is a free peer-to-peer content distribution network designed and operated by Michael Freedman. Coral uses the bandwidth of a world-wide network of web proxies and nameservers to mirror web content, often to avoid the Slashdot Effect or to reduce the general load on websites servers in general. < 1326375112 725116 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, right < 1326375198 399611 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, "piraattilahti.fi" (the literal translation of "piratebay") goes to EFFI's (the "Finnish EFF") webpage. < 1326375219 566015 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1326375293 488537 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, it was actually originally on that list. < 1326375313 276847 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's an update from yesterday that they have removed the "piraattilahti.fi" block. < 1326375328 782182 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably whoever owns the domain will again point it at Pirate Bay, and they'll add it back, and GOTO 10. < 1326375334 397125 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: http://www.effi.org/ -- try google-translating it from finnish to english and read the first sentence. < 1326375339 224008 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Right click -> translate in Chrome.) < 1326375374 27317 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"What." < 1326375415 660209 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: So how's the weather in Helsinki, Ireland today? < 1326375438 827540 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1326375442 126935 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, the original text just says "Electronic Frontier Finland ry ...", and 'ry' is basically "registered association". < 1326375461 432157 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you just type "Electronic Frontier Finland" and ask for a Finnish -> English translation, it goes "The Electronic Frontier Ireland". < 1326375469 225351 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Statistical translation, presumably. < 1326375473 737542 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently fi:Finland equals en:Ireland, then. < 1326375484 357428 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Things like country names tend to get mixed up. < 1326375485 767720 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admittedly "Finland" isn't Finnish. < 1326375503 912953 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it s Soumi isn't it? < 1326375504 891303 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's because e.g. a Finnish document talking about Finland might match up with an English document talking about the UK. < 1326375508 308680 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something like that < 1326375508 576799 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really know how it works. < 1326375509 246652 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Suomi. < 1326375511 566813 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1326375511 992301 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that's what I've heard. < 1326375526 837047 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie probably knows more, since speech recognition is, like, vaguely related, and about twice as unreliable. :p < 1326375535 686870 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, also inches vs. centimeters < 1326375541 20469 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that gets messed up badly too < 1326375543 740009 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was some other Google Translate "lul" related to gay Swedes, but I don't recall how it went. < 1326375544 403783 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Irlanti" is pretty close to "Finland", I guess. < 1326375547 923668 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Right. < 1326375583 379675 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, also I have seen it insert extra negations that completely changed the meaning of the sentence. :D < 1326375606 275548 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`words --finnish --swedish 25 < 1326375608 559537 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie "cunningly dodged" my speech recognition remark. < 1326375613 122770 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​åldolskeimmart säcklaansar psymmästa tiuminärpäsidornotkelvä dopatsansa ontusensatsenning rat anarre vid vesidorketsovånga hittu utadierna lähiöllämtnin kava mystele roillnadalm baskanaruttavlar uusioniser sydasmerkiltäng uppromerkkl uhoidkarist kn ahdottaga käläisig nyrper < 1326375625 792390 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, none of them looks Swedish at all < 1326375630 209940 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: vid? < 1326375632 262606 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also I don't know about Google Translate so much; but I suppose they do some "proactive" training-text acquisition, since there aren't so many actual good-quality parallel Finnish/English corpora; Europarl, of course, but still. < 1326375641 905717 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, oh right, missed that word < 1326375645 564010 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from that though < 1326375685 651579 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aren't many Finnish-looking words either. "hittu" could be. < 1326375692 779655 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Europarl is good for translating "Mr. President". < 1326375717 86436 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`words --finnish 15 < 1326375720 840573 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :matushovina jalailevakin tontumissasi uneeksesi syventävikseen aampiansa tyhjenemassamme erivaan alustamaksena ajamuissasi aihtyvilta liukkaama hälyttömimmaksee näppäivyttävista kapisimpia < 1326375727 166868 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I think psymmästa looks finnish < 1326375730 65853 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :to me at least < 1326375734 117 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Fails vowel harmony < 1326375738 482533 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm okay < 1326375746 506727 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, what does vowel harmony entail? < 1326375749 228900 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The all-purpose refusal. < 1326375760 738953 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vowel_harmony#Finnish < 1326375783 58004 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could've just said "no [uoa] or [yöä] in the same word". < 1326375790 46309 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's shorter than the link. :p < 1326375795 320669 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you have to pass, like, a gruelling five-hour test of vowel harmony to gain Finnish citizenship? < 1326375799 685237 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that requires typing, not copy-pasting. < 1326375818 116393 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I was /going/ to give a longer explanation including stuff about foreign imports and compound words but SCREW IT THEN. < 1326375834 786968 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Päuikkä" "Yes!" "Paaäaia" "No!" "Kapisimpia" "Yes!" "Syventävikseean" "Yes! -- NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO" < 1326375851 30876 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, yeah a bit tricky for compound words and imported words I imagine < 1326375859 569969 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Päuikkä" is not a "Yes!". < 1326375894 336698 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: What, how does that break vowel harmony, I spent like 3 seconds trying to understand vowel harmony so I don't see how I could possibly be wrong. < 1326375901 301238 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: "ä" and "u" < 1326375915 296522 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, my short explanation should've probably said "and" instead of "or". :p < 1326375927 172764 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1326375940 636335 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I was going solely based on "no a and ä" that yous aid once. :p < 1326375954 188617 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, EVEN THE EXAMINER MAKES MISTAKES SOMETIMES. < 1326375968 400867 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what about å? < 1326375987 285826 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :/kickban Vorpal trolling < 1326376000 539258 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what? < 1326376000 807076 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :In practice the rule is usually equivalent to "if a native speaker can't pronounce it easily, it fails vowel harmony" < 1326376015 109909 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: å is just o. < 1326376019 388195 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1326376027 221958 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, so you say "oland" for "åland"? < 1326376028 563955 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, "å" actually occurs in Finnish? < 1326376028 720434 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :And not present in any words. < 1326376032 161774 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1326376048 303055 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the point of a letter that isn't in any words? < 1326376048 898383 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, they have it in Åland afaik, unless they use a different name for that < 1326376055 263646 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to confuse the alphabet? < 1326376055 531795 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: "Ahvenanmaa". < 1326376055 974085 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: "ooland" and "åland" would be pronounced the same. < 1326376065 682932 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, å is used in Swedish so I guess that is why? < 1326376082 831193 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It's something that stayed from Swedish, and is only used in Swedish names. < 1326376153 445594 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Anyway we say Åland much like you say Åland; it's just that your 'å' is like IPA /o:/ pretty much, and therefore much like our 'o'. < 1326376170 398805 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what about our o? Do you have that < 1326376178 55444 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :'u'. < 1326376182 366693 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and our u? < 1326376230 512072 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that's IPA ʉ which we don't quite have? But that's just going by my knowledge of Swedish pronunciation, which is rather vague. < 1326376243 7705 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't you have some context-sensitivity going on there? < 1326376251 279945 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm maybe? < 1326376258 477098 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finnish mostly has a context-free mapping from lexemes to phonemes. < 1326376272 734611 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well there is a lot of stuff that depends on context in Swedish < 1326376283 221574 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :like double consonant after a vowel modifies it and so on < 1326376299 434195 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and that is the only place where you can put two of the same consonant pretty much) < 1326376323 340515 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Swedish o is also context-sensitive. < 1326376346 257366 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I believe /ever/ vowel can be modified by at least single/double consonant after it < 1326376349 636934 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly more stuff < 1326376354 870780 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite possibly. < 1326376358 97535 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I suppose 'bot' and 'bott' have quite a different 'o' in them? < 1326376361 356944 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :every* < 1326376365 374803 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, indeed < 1326376366 755258 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Swedish is a quite vowel-tricky language. < 1326376420 549259 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :also we have various other things going on. Like the sj-sound < 1326376424 386852 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Swedish-speaking Finns for the most part probably just approximate it. < 1326376434 455977 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :also stj and various other variants < 1326376583 359233 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :boten annan? < 1326376596 168286 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, uh "the cure another"? < 1326376597 274436 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it's Boten Anna < 1326376609 696290 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :still "The cure Anna" (where Anna is a name) < 1326376620 410957 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but that is not what it refers to) < 1326376633 525688 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I saw bott, and thought of the song Boten Anna < 1326376646 271134 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Much like I couldn't really do all the seven Russian fricatives that are all more or less "s" (or "z") in Finnish. (с, ш, щ, з, ж, ч, ц -- esp. ш/щ., IIRC.) < 1326376661 936350 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And in whatever language "Boten Anna" is, it's supposed to mean Anna the Bot, I think < 1326376675 769753 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I think it's a different language from whatever you're talking about < 1326376680 666631 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"NO NO IT'S ABOUT A BOAT LOL" < 1326376686 856485 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Thank you for your insightful commentary. < 1326376693 917174 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, I don't think bott exists as a Swedish word. Possibly as a loan word. The way it is written it would be pronounced like the English "bot" though < 1326376694 185902 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zf2wbRWb9xI < 1326376702 268231 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a single t it would be different < 1326376707 382479 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What language is this? < 1326376714 2714 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, that would be båten < 1326376714 714285 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1326376726 118574 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: My, that's a little EDGY for you. < 1326376736 689730 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, can't check, no sound where I am. < 1326376737 494309 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: "bott" doesn't exist? bo, bor, bodde, bott. < 1326376749 630505 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, oh right, true < 1326376755 308424 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : What language is this? < 1326376756 690939 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :finnish < 1326376766 371676 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, it is probably Swedish anyway < 1326376768 248533 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hth yw < 1326376773 995815 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :[] < 1326376774 151949 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(18470.58 secs, 14756796564032 bytes) < 1326376776 175124 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if it is what I'm thinking of) < 1326376776 576515 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Conjecture proved. < 1326376784 608580 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, what conjecture? < 1326376790 793243 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Conjecture. < 1326376798 779716 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant actually just typed [], he just has a really slow computer. < 1326376805 858073 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep. < 1326376812 669208 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1326376821 804272 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And also his GHC has a really bad memory leak. < 1326376830 368214 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite < 1326376838 341302 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, uh < 1326376840 482827 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :`frink 14756796564032 bytes -> gb < 1326376841 294786 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :13.5 terabytes for the empty list is quite impressive. < 1326376843 254349 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boten_Anna#Swedish_lyrics < 1326376845 748984 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :wasn't that the command? < 1326376846 956544 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1326376849 223507 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes. < 1326376851 141478 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's slow. < 1326376852 753702 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknown symbol "gb" \ Warning: undefined symbol "gb". \ Unconvertable expression: \ 118054372512256 bit (information) -> gb (undefined symbol) < 1326376856 281916 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ffs < 1326376856 684496 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, "gb" is unlikely to work. < 1326376861 252852 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :`frink 14756796564032 bytes -> gigabytes < 1326376861 830091 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`frink 14756796564032 bytes -> gibibyte < 1326376865 763725 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: gibi < 1326376872 683803 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I want base 1000 :P < 1326376873 354902 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :230574946313/15625000 (exactly 14756.796564032) < 1326376873 892050 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :bogo < 1326376877 545109 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(okay not really) < 1326376888 975166 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyawy, like I said, 13.5 tebibytes. < 1326376897 675322 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you said it after I typed that line < 1326376899 497571 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Actually you said tera) < 1326376902 252921 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Anyway < 1326376903 784493 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Indeed! < 1326376904 724031 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I LIED. < 1326376910 190352 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shameful. < 1326376924 253685 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :230574946313/16777216 (approx. 13743.33776909113) < 1326376942 905788 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Anyway, there was a recording from when someone called to a radio show host about the song, and explained the whole "IRC bot" thing, but the host just couldn't understand the concept and was all "no, no, you're mistaken, he's singing about a boat". < 1326376943 173963 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gotta love that useful rational representation. < 1326376956 518770 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, heh < 1326376967 542822 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I'm not sure what would compel someone to attempt to explain that to a radio show host. < 1326376967 812428 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, XD < 1326376983 583321 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, the line was filter (uncurry (<)) [(fromIntegral (abs d :: Int32) :: Word32, fromIntegral (gcd (2^32 :: Int64) (fromIntegral d :: Int64)) :: Word32) | d <- [minBound..maxBound :: Int32], d /= 0] < 1326376987 229311 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The radio show host had kept on babbling about the boat earlier, I suppose it got on someone's nerves. < 1326377007 989340 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Isn't there a boat in the video? Very confusing. < 1326377019 143170 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: What. < 1326377033 30884 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :speaking of Swedish pronunciation, there is also quite a lot of dialectal variation still. < 1326377038 875882 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :For another conjecture, (5383.32 secs, 2327345782000 bytes) vs (5561.58 secs, 2706088878288 bytes) shows that using toInteger and Integers is faster than fromIntegral and Ints. < 1326377046 76189 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Also, (abs d :: Int32) === (abs d) there. < 1326377049 823675 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t gcd < 1326377050 390629 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Integral a) => a -> a -> a < 1326377057 670392 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And (2^32 :: Int64) === (2^32). < 1326377060 30662 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Also since it's talking about the "kanal" and, you know, a canal of water and all. < 1326377064 257016 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I added some extras to make sure everything was correct. < 1326377074 458975 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: TYPES DON'T WORK LIKE THAT < 1326377086 240237 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes they do, it'd give me an error if they weren't what I thought they were. < 1326377102 979777 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Anyway, you could, like, totally golf that. < 1326377112 694079 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, and optimize it. But that wasn't the point. < 1326377119 226446 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The point was to make sure that it returns the empty list. < 1326377121 638005 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, indeed < 1326377126 311967 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea how the "Jag är ingen [båt], jag är en väldigt, väldigt vacker tjej" part makes sense for the "boat interpretation", as it is known in scholarly circles. < 1326377137 974462 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://stackoverflow.com/a/8836331/1097181 ;; ooh, there's a *psychic* on SO. < 1326377144 333 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps some sort of a possessed boat? < 1326377146 345706 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Are we going to get context? < 1326377155 821454 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, just looked up the lyrics and they make no sense wrt a boat < 1326377156 90060 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what's the translation of that? < 1326377156 358678 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Translation? < 1326377171 778794 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: "I'm not a bot, I'm a really, really beautiful girl." < 1326377177 106124 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D < 1326377181 236013 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you know boats these days. < 1326377198 272817 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, the stuff about banning too < 1326377202 272985 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott TOPIC #esoteric :I'm not a boat, I'm a really, really beautiful girl | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1326377213 942664 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm you. < 1326377217 823686 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"för i mina ögon är hon alltid en [båt]". < 1326377225 34516 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Boats have kicked people out before! < 1326377225 191037 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In my eyes she's always a bot/boat." < 1326377229 674761 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess what i was arguing earlier was that mathematics has some closed-circle views about reality. And going further to say that perhaps everyone has some closed-circle views about reality. These statements of mine themselves represent a closed circle argument. < 1326377239 706093 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Very progressive. < 1326377246 770257 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :means.. tidus acquired the word closed-circle argument in his inventory < 1326377274 637043 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, "itidus" derives from "tidus"? I suppose that should have been obvious. < 1326377279 647317 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it said ban, not kick < 1326377289 619985 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes, well, boats that kick don't let people back in. < 1326377290 701098 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hahahah......... < 1326377301 503706 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup < 1326377305 40628 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I... guess it could be some sort of a warship that's patrolling the canal so that you can't travel there? < 1326377307 861168 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Context: having checked that gcd (2^32) (fromIntegral d) * x doesn't overflow, what can we say about whether fromIntegral (abs d) * x overflows? (If I'm looking at this correctly.) As it turns out, I can't think of anything, although if that had been true in some cases, maybe there would've been something. < 1326377318 780495 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont necesarily still hold that view, but a few hours ago i was arguing it < 1326377327 345581 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you die on a boat, you die in real life! < 1326377331 837580 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the other one was filter (\(a,b) -> abs (toInteger a) /= toInteger b) [(x,y) | (x :: Int32) <- [minBound..maxBound], let y = fromIntegral (abs x) :: Word32]. < 1326377337 21335 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which seems pretty self-explanatory. < 1326377347 59419 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Doesn't QuickCheck let you run tests over functions? < 1326377350 49331 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm not true. I actually turned a small dinghy upside down in the water (as part of training how to do that, I used to sail many years ago) < 1326377351 306115 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could try and find a predicate. < 1326377362 612754 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: For what? < 1326377391 521577 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Well, um, good point. < 1326377397 945757 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, was this on one core or multiple cores? < 1326377398 926442 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something relating the two. Somehow. :p < 1326377404 246723 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Does it matter? < 1326377406 360981 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :filter isn't parallel. < 1326377411 980903 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: That's not using parFilter or anything so those are single-core. < 1326377412 726230 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It's not like it could be parallel over linked lists.) < 1326377421 875713 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Well, usefully parallel.) < 1326377427 202858 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well he should have used parFilter then < 1326377437 411161 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think parFilter exists. < 1326377441 437877 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, oh okay < 1326377449 598175 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1326377454 954596 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it wouldn't've been enough on its own, anyway. < 1326377461 559138 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair enough < 1326377462 758797 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I didn't exactly care about the runtime, either. < 1326377469 625770 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: You can easily construct it with Control.Parallel.Strategies. < 1326377480 223248 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: filter `using` parList or whatever? < 1326377493 788983 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forget how that module works. < 1326377496 518437 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(\p xs -> filter p xs `using` parList), but I rather suspect you'd want to use one of the fancier chunking combinators. < 1326377502 992396 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, sparks are cheap, but not /that/ cheap. < 1326377509 481879 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. < 1326377511 691409 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1326377514 812819 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(\p xs -> filter p xs `using` parList strat) < 1326377521 474769 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :For some strat, probably rseq. < 1326377552 450693 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alternatively I could've just trusted my belief that what's true for 8-bit is also true for 32-bit. < 1326377583 678564 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: UNTRUE COUNTEREXAMPLE "THEY CAN HOLD ONLY THINGS OF 8 BITS" QED MOFO < 1326377592 111549 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :QED QED QED < 1326377609 646273 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :QED QED QED < 1326377613 255867 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :MOT < 1326377619 885245 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :NETMOT. < 1326377622 340473 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :CQFD < 1326377624 262401 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :WZBW < 1326377629 278269 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :чтд < 1326377635 990846 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, but is it true for 64-bit? < 1326377640 390869 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ASDF < 1326377641 369799 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It better be. < 1326377643 649447 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326377648 566310 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1326377651 253786 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: You mean you're not going to... check? < 1326377656 428574 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I'm not. < 1326377666 530291 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: You could use one of those fancy SMT things to check it. < 1326377671 383119 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hackage.haskell.org/package/sbv, e.g. < 1326377684 811529 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know whether they're clever/good enough to. < 1326377690 713024 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric : And I didn't exactly care about the runtime, either. <-- so there's no reason not to just bump up the bits. < 1326377707 225235 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, SMT... I heard this before, what did it stand for now again < 1326377710 514948 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :something modulo? < 1326377711 320715 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least expressing it with one of them wouldn't be any harder than writing the Haskell code. :p < 1326377715 278057 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Satisfiability, theories. < 1326377720 681416 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah right < 1326377721 84616 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That's probably an order of magnitude slower than boolector and whatnot. < 1326377725 793972 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satisfiability_Modulo_Theories < 1326377731 13749 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I quite like Something Modulo Thingies :P < 1326377738 500766 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: It doesn't dot he solving itself. < 1326377740 794161 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: *do the < 1326377748 394914 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: It uses Yices or something. < 1326377755 949931 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yices is kind of shitty IIRC. < 1326377771 866401 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/LeventErkok/sbv/tree/master/Data/SBV/Provers < 1326377774 611248 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I could just as easily express it in C and probably get faster runtime :-P < 1326377776 639166 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also Z3. < 1326377787 945161 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what about z3? < 1326377789 286789 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Z3 is performant. < 1326377791 385863 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I used it) < 1326377797 151078 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It supports it. < 1326377800 239731 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right < 1326377802 977467 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I somewhat doubt even C could enumerate 2^64 integers in a reasonable timeframe. < 1326377811 959991 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Of course it can't. < 1326377821 255961 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: You don't say. < 1326377830 610400 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant, express it in C and get the SMT problem from that. < 1326377848 333081 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I doubt that would buy you anything over sbv, since it extracts to C anyway. < 1326377864 969415 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, then maybe not. < 1326377893 405491 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, why C->SMT? Are there automated tools for that or something? < 1326377895 364332 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION considers getting sbv working and trying it himself. < 1326377896 341249 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :But anyway, I'm not sure that SMT solvers could figure it out. < 1326377908 203755 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ONLY ONE WAY TO FIND OUT < 1326377919 31967 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :assmebly language could do it < 1326377927 703244 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Which is the best one in https://github.com/LeventErkok/sbv/tree/master/Data/SBV/Provers? I don't really want to try and get more than one of these things working.) < 1326377931 195626 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^assembly < 1326377941 549839 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, no, there is no way you can even run a simple loop that just counts up to 2^64 :P < 1326377942 220570 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: What, enumerate all 64-bit integers? < 1326377946 498864 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried finding examples of "des(x) == x" with SMT solvers and didn't get a solution after some 875 hours of CPU time. < 1326377951 979315 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess not < 1326377962 945692 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: That property is a lot simpler than des(x) == x :P < 1326377965 704552 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :point is though that if asm can't do it then it can't be done < 1326377967 892146 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know what? I'm not convinced Funge-98 is an esolang < 1326377971 123245 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t des < 1326377972 113923 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `des' < 1326377976 841731 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: Yes it can, you just have to use your brain. < 1326377976 997998 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I guess here's as good a place to discuss it as any < 1326377977 952684 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf is des? < 1326377983 816093 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: DES < 1326377984 620928 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, DES? < 1326377986 175066 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1326377991 158331 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: Brute force is not the only way to solve every problem. < 1326377997 795055 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: Also, asm is not even the lowest level you can get at. < 1326378020 553839 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the problem is ennumerating all 64 bit integers < 1326378022 144219 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I did C at that time so that I could go C -> LLVM -> optimized LLVM -> hand-translated SMT < 1326378024 543039 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what is it then? It is not exactly a main stream language. < 1326378035 233037 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, Yices and Z3 are the only ones supported. < 1326378038 155547 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then asm would be your best bet :P < 1326378038 311581 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Z3 is better, I guess? < 1326378051 665536 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does cheater expect his trolling to be successful? < 1326378055 792833 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I think it is just an esolang that borders on not being one. But still firmly on the esolang side of things. < 1326378059 846186 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: No, it wouldn't. < 1326378065 664068 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: What's he doing this time? < 1326378069 300815 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW, he's in here. < 1326378070 241965 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :any funge derivative is an esolang < 1326378075 112688 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : hey guys what is the opposite of return? ... < 1326378080 929277 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :18<cheater_> i want something like <- < 1326378095 540500 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater: ever heard of comonads? < 1326378098 706570 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: You assume he's trolling, but I think he might just be stupid. < 1326378105 859287 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they have unreturn and unjoin as their primitives, no matter what elliott wants to call them < 1326378112 497428 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least if #haskell over many months is any indicator. < 1326378118 590345 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: IIRC Z3 was about twice as fast as yices on average in SMT-COMP 2011 < 1326378120 481539 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Incidentally this is the map-related decision I briefly mentioned: http://www.maanmittauslaitos.fi/tiedotteet/2011/12/raha-asiainvaliokunta-puoltaa-avausehdotusta -- so starting first of May, there's going to be some datta. < 1326378125 870857 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what does elliott want to call them? < 1326378134 999852 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Alright, cool. < 1326378153 521488 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, which one was fastest? < 1326378158 531275 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Z3, IIRC. :-P < 1326378160 142617 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course in the US it's been a law that all federally produced stuff is free for who knows how long. :p < 1326378160 615101 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :He solved his problem with binds and lambdas, apparently < 1326378165 525907 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I meant out of all < 1326378167 458552 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i wouldn't even know how to go to lower levels than asm :P < 1326378171 863901 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes, that's what I meant as well. < 1326378175 626723 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay < 1326378187 240477 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have heard of microcode though < 1326378195 437116 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: There were many benchmarks and it didn't win all of them, but it was the fastest for my use case at least. < 1326378197 797803 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: I was thinking FPGAs. < 1326378227 793873 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :would you put them on a board and plug it in? :D < 1326378286 818533 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i say this to hint at the fact that i doubt very many individuals ever make their own AGP/PCI cards < 1326378296 662168 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and maybe it's an underdeveloped area < 1326378303 325448 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :problem with FPGAs is that unless you can take advantage of their different architecture it is going to be slower < 1326378320 360073 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe the top clock frequencies for FPGAs is around 200 MHz < 1326378327 535050 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(might be somewhat out of date on that) < 1326378335 555420 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they don't need a high clock speed < 1326378346 882121 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ 1 of 104] Compiling Data.SBV.Utils.Lib ( Data/SBV/Utils/Lib.hs, dist/build/SBVUnitTests/SBVUnitTests-tmp/Data/SBV/Utils/Lib.o ) < 1326378347 954984 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm.. im daydreaming < 1326378351 838560 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you don't really need to take advantage of the architecture beyond running thousands of cores in parallel < 1326378353 86664 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, indeed, if the problem is suited to being done on an FPGA of course. < 1326378355 757421 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: It'll probably take 2 seconds to check but ten years to install sbv < 1326378360 523165 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and that is what I meant < 1326378362 124 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if your project parallelises easily, no issue using FPGAs at all < 1326378383 918690 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1326378389 786461 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, if it doesn't parallelise you have issues though < 1326378419 572879 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, i want to develop a GLU = game logic unit :P (not really.. sounds cool though) < 1326378424 734981 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: not really; see, e.g. the stats at the end of http://www.cs.bham.ac.uk/~drg/papers/icfp11.pdf < 1326378430 898692 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm are there any embarrassingly non-parallelisable problems? < 1326378443 298588 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: counting to 2^64 parallelises really easily < 1326378455 556672 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we gave an input which is pretty much the worst possible algorithm for implementing on an FPGA, and the resulting circuit did no parallelism at all < 1326378463 294561 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you can't use 2^64 "cores" though < 1326378481 555200 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yet it was within a factor of 2 of the algol, and within a factor of around 7 of ocaml < 1326378489 434401 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is achieved by counting though.. the algorithm makes no sense < 1326378502 204771 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even with just the one thread, the advantage gained from hardcoding your program into the hardware is noticeable < 1326378503 418267 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well, it would work. < 1326378509 963210 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its like in brainfuck you would optimize ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ < 1326378521 77330 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what would? < 1326378528 435970 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Using 2^64 cores. < 1326378540 182928 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no it wouldn't due to you not having that many < 1326378549 935250 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: That doesn't mean it parallelises any worse. < 1326378551 48268 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you could optimize the counting problem to just setting a variable to 2^64 < 1326378555 291554 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, of course < 1326378559 388063 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :time vs space tradeoff :D < 1326378565 134959 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but what I mean is that it isn't a practical solution < 1326378568 765017 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :2^64 is too big < 1326378581 316760 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: We recently had some visiting guy from Japan doing signal processing (sound recognition; not speech, just environmental sounds in general) on an FPGA. < 1326378592 279181 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders how long it'd take the top supercomputer to count to 2^64 (in parallel). < 1326378597 325212 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: how is that a tradeoff? < 1326378606 588135 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, the problem was actually to run a function on each value < 1326378612 666707 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently it was rather faster than running the equivalent stuff on DSP cores. < 1326378614 62768 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: oh.. my posts dont make sense sequentially < 1326378623 830746 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. < 1326378626 824449 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or non-sequentially. < 1326378628 231816 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, nice < 1326378643 46017 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: What, z3's not open-sores? :/ < 1326378652 981099 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it is MS research < 1326378657 47372 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :2^64 cores solution demands more space... using 1 core demands more time < 1326378658 123923 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: So is GHC. < 1326378664 498868 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you need to use a really old version or run it under wine < 1326378684 814221 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, the bf case is not a tradeoff at all < 1326378690 376740 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor is just setting a variable < 1326378703 896315 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i know.. hence my comment about my posts don't make sense sequentially < 1326378704 434853 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It was all "and then we made our vectors this long..." "but what about the running time?" "we just used more gates". < 1326378727 232734 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I wonder why there aren't FPGAs in normal computers. To offload problems to. Just like you offload rendering (and other stuff) to GPUs < 1326378745 804034 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, heh < 1326378753 980996 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: people are starting to do that already, I think < 1326378756 835207 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not mainstream yet < 1326378759 634896 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Oh come on, Yices is closed-source too? < 1326378761 357064 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but may become so eventually < 1326378770 503532 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what are these programs for? < 1326378773 244901 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: SMT < 1326378781 840997 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which expands to? < 1326378782 417946 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I hope so < 1326378790 698752 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: satisfiability modulo theories < 1326378802 507724 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it seems to me the formula is.... i = 2 ^ 64 / c where c is the number of cores, and i is the number of iterations per core < 1326378807 773593 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: if you have a few thousand pounds to spare, you can buy an FPGA add-on for your computer right now < 1326378815 292738 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then the problem's just finding software that makes use of it < 1326378818 630841 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, sadly I don't have that < 1326378820 423915 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and indeed < 1326378826 854377 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can only expect the price to come down over time < 1326378838 325303 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just needs a killer app, really (like gaming for GPUs) < 1326378855 553120 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: How recent is Z3 2.19? :p < 1326378859 112478 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, the problem is no game is going to depend on such a thing, because it would hurt the sales figures < 1326378882 498619 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I added VHDL to Emacs' flymake-mode yesterday < 1326378885 361404 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Games have had optional-but-makes-it-prettier things for ages now. < 1326378886 340760 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, turned flymake-mode on by default < 1326378893 68737 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, flymake? < 1326378895 295108 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(diff) (hist) . . N User:Splu26ri160a‎; 12:55 . . (+4,830) . . Splu26ri160a (Talk | contribs) (New page: Your email could not be delivered error 552. Who knows what this means! SMTP error codes were designed way back in 1982, mainly for other computers to be able to read and understand them. ...) < 1326378901 133228 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well yes < 1326378908 220549 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: right, you'd have a game that works fine without it, but ends up with 100 times the framerate or something silly like that with < 1326378909 372607 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you need to find such a use for FPGAs too < 1326378933 129705 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: actually, I think the FPGA-in-PC market's currently being driven by bitcoin miners < 1326378942 715001 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh < 1326378947 822565 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I would expect any such killer app to happen in, say, CAD or such first, this would bring it down a bit, then maybe in something more mainstream < 1326378949 300188 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes I wonder if bitcoin is actually a cunning plan to advance the state of technology < 1326378968 243316 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I don't get why CAD would require that sort of processor power < 1326378970 436042 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, didn't the price of bitcoin collapse or something iirc? < 1326378975 509566 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: everything is "actually a [...] technology" < 1326378986 56053 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm okay < 1326378992 467054 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, advanced simulation? < 1326378996 481852 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes, although it picked up somewhat after that < 1326379000 877353 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fsvo everything < 1326379020 750779 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You should download Z3 version 3.2 or later." < 1326379032 728220 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, http://research.microsoft.com/projects/z3/z3-x64-3.2.tar.gz < 1326379036 466138 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Not ancient, that's the latest version. < 1326379041 595488 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah nice < 1326379045 900408 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :im such a phony using expressions like fsvo.. someone could accidently mistake me for one of you < 1326379055 472085 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : (of course, there's also z-machine for windows. Sadly, no windows for the z-machine yet.) < 1326379056 544252 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*I* started the FSVOing. < 1326379056 946287 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, last I looked (half a year ago?) that wasn't around < 1326379059 637246 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I demand royalties. < 1326379072 486023 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, maybe Deewiant used it a bit before me. < 1326379076 289676 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I started the influx. < 1326379085 411171 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastelog fsvo < 1326379095 915514 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, z-machines hm, what are those now again? < 1326379103 219232 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zork machines? < 1326379110 399964 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :some game interp, IIRC < 1326379113 331743 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1326379117 367198 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :intercom < 1326379118 555916 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2006-08-29.txt:09:04:18: FSVO "few" \ 2009-07-11.txt:19:21:32: FSVO recently \ 2009-07-20.txt:19:59:04: well, FSVO entirely possible \ 2009-07-24.txt:18:56:18: AnMaster: fsvo love equal to shit \ 2009-07-24.txt:18:56:25: "fsvo"? \ 2009-07-24.txt:18:56:36: fsvo. \ 2009-07-24.txt:18:56:37: `translate fsvo \ 2009-07-24.txt:18:56:38: fsvo < 1326379144 439127 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hackego's heart just wasn't in it < 1326379152 247180 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't think I've ever used the abbreviation "FSVO", at least. < 1326379163 476839 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, for some values of used? < 1326379169 403701 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Har har. < 1326379185 860007 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have the logs on this computer so meh < 1326379221 960662 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, I've reached the arrival of ehird` in my great log reread < 1326379228 646586 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude Data.SBV> prove $ \(x::SWord8) -> x .== 0 < 1326379228 802822 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*** An error occurred. < 1326379228 959316 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*** Unable to locate executable for Yices < 1326379228 959501 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*** Executable specified: "yices" < 1326379232 26633 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's been over three years now < 1326379232 427688 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aw come on. < 1326379236 587613 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: FSVO great. < 1326379241 321518 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I still plan to read every single log in order some day. < 1326379245 794829 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :2009-07-24 20:57:13( Deewiant) http://www.google.com/search?q=fsvo < 1326379260 621005 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the only use other than that "I don't think I've ever used" use. < 1326379268 160711 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, it's so weird to see elliott not knowing something about the channel < 1326379280 976287 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: that isn't a use, that's a mention < 1326379288 325550 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what, Deewiant not using FSVO, or? < 1326379289 802053 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fair enough. < 1326379295 280997 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the referent of "that" is ambiguous there, but the statement's right both ways) < 1326379313 422715 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Google-searching something is mentioning it, not using it < 1326379320 810168 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh < 1326379326 253135 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude Data.SBV> proveWith z3 $ \(x::SWord8) -> x .== x < 1326379326 538900 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Q.E.D. < 1326379334 859882 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: OK what was the proposition again. < 1326379341 468824 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which one? < 1326379345 951555 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: The one. < 1326379356 405939 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :> filter (uncurry (<)) [(fromIntegral (abs d :: Int32) :: Word32, fromIntegral (gcd (2^32 :: Int64) (fromIntegral d :: Int64)) :: Word32) | d <- [minBound..maxBound :: Int32], d /= 0] < 1326379360 416960 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval-core: Time limit exceeded < 1326379364 374640 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That lasted long. < 1326379367 726142 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh, we may have been using TC all wrong < 1326379378 798783 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was a goodmathbadmath post about the difference between turing-complete and turing-equivalent < 1326379389 180075 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh? what is the difference? < 1326379393 124233 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a TC computation is one that requires at least a TE interp to run) < 1326379399 581101 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1326379416 941467 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://scienceblogs.com/goodmath/2007/01/turing_equivalent_vs_turing_co.php < 1326379425 193706 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, are there any known TC computations? < 1326379433 859706 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, yes? < 1326379437 215418 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a brainfuck interpreter? < 1326379456 950266 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, apart from interpreting TE interps I mean < 1326379457 258904 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, interpreting a TE language is the most common one < 1326379471 375723 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :another one is to run all possible programs in a particular TE lang in parallel < 1326379474 584646 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and output when each of them halts < 1326379504 645460 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if you don't care about the exact details of how the threads interleave, running infinitely many things in parallel is trivial) < 1326379554 741567 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay let me rephrase that: are there any known TC computations that doesn't involve TE languages. < 1326379556 619745 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`searchlog itidus computation limit < 1326379558 945231 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: What's the corresponding form for 8-bit? Just s/Int32/Int8/ s/Word32/Word8/? < 1326379560 862460 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, what2D languages have nothing to do with Befunge? < 1326379568 637911 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*what 2D < 1326379572 228176 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2012-01-12.txt:14:45:56: `searchlog itidus computation limit < 1326379576 555886 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: biota < 1326379588 269606 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: And 2^8 < 1326379591 397105 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah.. anyway.. i think one of you directed me to the gravity esolang < 1326379596 706859 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: And the Int64 is of course just "some bigger int" < 1326379601 478368 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Right. Could the Int64 be shortened to ... right. < 1326379604 10124 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :when i was questioning the limits of computation < 1326379607 898111 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ah, interesting < 1326379611 964433 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, I believe that one is uncomputable? < 1326379613 828730 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :made by the inventor of c2, I didn't expect that < 1326379658 847186 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was another time discussing sumamoito where i held the belief for a short moment that sumamoito was uncomputable < 1326379664 930125 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but elliott cleared up that mistake for me < 1326379693 58916 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, is Biota the only esolang ever to have been sold at a profit? < 1326379709 443258 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, sold at a profit? < 1326379713 953844 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: This is FUN. < 1326379744 234110 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, under what circumstances did that happen? < 1326379773 183843 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : do bees hibernate? < 1326379785 932180 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: not sure; apparently someone found Biota useful enough to buy it < 1326379789 985855 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1326379795 416448 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the idea was to make a language that was reasonably resistant to mutation < 1326379806 317548 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was devised by ward cunningham apparently (looking at the wiki) < 1326379820 558278 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and he is a big name so i guess he can sell esolangs < 1326379828 673801 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, sounds similar to a design requirement for Creatures < 1326379841 788750 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, big name != ability to find a buyer for esolangs < 1326379841 963844 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The inventor of Biota. Also, the inventor of the wiki, having created the Internet's first wiki at c2.com. Outside of the esolangs community, he is far more famous for the latter. " < 1326379861 429861 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly inside the esolangs community too < 1326379873 641467 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Smalltalk source in a text file? < 1326379887 113665 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :text file's a good way to store source < 1326379892 209347 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am curious though < 1326379899 968142 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet even @lang has a text representation it can roundtrip via < 1326379900 721858 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what exactly do you sell with an esolang < 1326379915 358239 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you sell the BNF? < 1326379920 858817 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :an interp for it? copyrights on the spec? support? < 1326379922 473330 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Biota predates esolangs, really < 1326379927 141478 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or an implementation.. both? < 1326379931 36216 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I'm guessing elliott is going to go with no? (wrt text) < 1326379931 572953 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and wasn't intended as one < 1326379950 456649 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : it was devised by ward cunningham apparently (looking at the wiki) < 1326379959 773390 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: The irony of this statement is palpable. < 1326379971 340339 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's really unlike funge in pretty much every way, it's more like sansism < 1326379983 618497 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : I bet even @lang has a text representation it can roundtrip via < 1326379984 482057 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no capital W, it's OK < 1326379986 91268 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really. < 1326379993 879722 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, the Wiki says it was deviced by ward cunningham too < 1326380007 523401 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have read up on ward a teeny bit before < 1326380016 626458 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :something about patterns < 1326380030 502180 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: The hard part is the casting here. :p < 1326380031 846208 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that his wiki focuses on patterns perhaps.. < 1326380038 328450 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Oh, SignCast is what I want. < 1326380046 276254 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe something about extreme programming < 1326380057 48291 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, discussion of the timeout challenge on anagolf < 1326380068 517932 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, link? < 1326380075 278615 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the way that the golfiest way to get a timeout in ruby is `vi` < 1326380080 144862 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: 2008-01-18 < 1326380083 953286 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1326380087 57609 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the idea of copyrighting a language spec just isn't cool < 1326380118 59207 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :C does it! < 1326380120 204889 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, I would assume C# or such is copyrighted? < 1326380124 176779 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Reassure me that (unsignCast . extend . signCast) will DTRT, thx < 1326380126 746653 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes C and so on too < 1326380131 203700 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could be done in a predatory way < 1326380132 952350 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm < 1326380136 762443 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(signCast . extend . unsignCast) < 1326380150 938850 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, clearly, the esolang just refuses to function unless you've paid its author money < 1326380165 759137 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you patch out the check that does that, you're no longer conforming to the spec < 1326380172 836312 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1326380182 50793 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :all those little details < 1326380213 203186 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, when did you first come here btw? < 1326380223 276574 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :prop.hs:22:13: < 1326380223 545056 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Context reduction stack overflow; size = 21 < 1326380223 701390 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Use -fcontext-stack=N to increase stack size to N < 1326380223 701580 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : $dSignCast :: SignCast SWord8 SInt16 < 1326380223 701690 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : $dSignCast :: SignCast SWord16 SInt8 < 1326380223 947553 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : $dSignCast :: SignCast SWord8 SInt16 < 1326380225 743850 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that long ago < 1326380225 900097 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : $dSignCast :: SignCast SWord16 SInt8 < 1326380227 799849 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : $dSignCast :: SignCast SWord8 SInt16 < 1326380227 956076 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1326380229 794226 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : $dSignCast :: SignCast SWord16 SInt8 < 1326380231 850713 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : $dSignCast :: SignCast SWord8 SInt16 < 1326380232 253174 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :under a year ago < 1326380233 193327 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: wow, you really used to hate funge-98 < 1326380233 774758 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-| < 1326380239 354804 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t gcd < 1326380240 24895 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Integral a) => a -> a -> a < 1326380241 233661 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, why= < 1326380247 963551 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :meanwhile, I had a sudden realisation that I'm a call-by-name fanboy < 1326380258 82296 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Paul Levy has promised to shock me out of it next week, I'll be interested in that < 1326380271 527227 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you actually like call by name? why? < 1326380273 488047 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: for being so much more complex than -93 < 1326380285 876176 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also who is Paul Levy? < 1326380286 588331 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, suppose brainfuck was copyrighted < 1326380290 196348 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: because it's so much more natural and intuitive than CBV, and has many fewer special cases < 1326380295 958419 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: the call by push value guy < 1326380301 996411 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1326380302 665950 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :he was mentioned to me by elliott, I think < 1326380306 460071 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :would it be that you could just replace one char with another? < 1326380309 724276 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what about call by reference? < 1326380310 531201 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :who was surprised to discover that we worked in the same department < 1326380318 915172 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha < 1326380337 711959 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, thanks. The reaction was everything I hoped. < 1326380352 434764 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hoped for* < 1326380360 694336 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :call by push name, pls < 1326380397 241742 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:28:39: gcc insists char [x][y] < 1326380398 450342 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:28:45: is really really different from char ** < 1326380412 714755 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: wow, I'd never expected such a misconception coming from you < 1326380433 270447 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sadly, my response to you was also a misconception < 1326380453 989062 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Bangalore_India_Tech_books_for_sale_IMG_5261.jpg < 1326380466 658151 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Oh, dear < 1326380475 101797 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I'm going to have to write my own gcd < 1326380488 731078 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Please, don't assume 2008-ehird is me; I dislike him quite intensely < 1326380504 448832 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway I quite like call by value for strict languages anyway. I guess call by name might make more sense in a lazy language hm < 1326380539 258545 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Note that a language does not (should not) have to enforce a call strategy. < 1326380549 27501 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's an implementation detail. < 1326380558 567363 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I believe C enforces call by value? < 1326380565 730294 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell, for example, only requires non-strict semantics; so lazy evaluation, call-by-name, etc. are all legitimate implementation strategies. < 1326380565 998667 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so is there such a thing as a public domain programming language? < 1326380578 68616 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: As-if rule says it doesn't, although there's not much you could do with that flexibility. < 1326380581 989847 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: everything on http://esolangs.org/w < 1326380594 88206 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm < 1326380614 111370 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src gcd < 1326380614 379218 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcd 0 0 = error "Prelude.gcd: gcd 0 0 is undefined" < 1326380614 535750 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcd x y = gcd' (abs x) (abs y) < 1326380614 535930 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : where gcd' a 0 = a < 1326380614 536037 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : gcd' a b = gcd' b (a `rem` b) < 1326380616 851281 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay < 1326380618 654703 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so biota is public domain by now right? :D < 1326380643 570729 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, which evaluation stratergy does ghc use? < 1326380650 541978 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :strategy* < 1326380651 117923 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Lazy. < 1326380654 807039 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1326380675 540880 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: So, call-by-need. < 1326380680 626947 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1326380691 903987 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326380708 952440 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326380710 490887 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1326380711 875901 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :spod < 1326380712 31549 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. < 1326380713 795953 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi Phantom_Hoover < 1326380717 641138 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:03:06: I'm pondering writing a befunge interpreter in bash, however, I'm not clear on one point, while the size of the playfield isn't limited in Befunge-98, is it "not limited in one dimension, but still limited in the other" or "totally unlimited"? < 1326380723 95296 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :see, I can poke fun at past-all-of-us < 1326380726 91072 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523 < 1326380730 414609 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from people who weren't there < 1326380772 335334 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow I had forgotten that befunge implementation. It kind of worked for -93 I remember. < 1326380773 7222 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I run into the roadblock of having no idea how to extend this thing with functions :P < 1326380776 983560 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugly piece of crap though < 1326380786 549448 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not as ugly as cfunge! < 1326380788 753464 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :since bash really doesn't like null-bytes < 1326380792 916249 :cheater_!~cheater@178-26-46-133-dynip.superkabel.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1326380818 575299 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had to store null bytes as something else < 1326380828 160741 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :forgot how I solved that < 1326380843 562324 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yo, how do I define gcd in Z3 < 1326380852 970706 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ASCII escape? < 1326380858 804256 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I guess you have to specify them as axioms < 1326380867 65989 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no clue. When I said I used z3 I mean I used it as a backend to something else < 1326380874 30799 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it worked pretty well for that < 1326381048 5873 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326381059 783364 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[15:07] Vorpal: you stored them as the string "NUL" < 1326381061 431345 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[15:07] apparently, you got most of -98 sort-of-working too < 1326381069 206792 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it completed Mycology but with a few BADs and no fingerprints < 1326381077 27797 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1326381078 532579 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523 < 1326381086 263636 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523|sl < 1326381088 230135 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, heh < 1326381089 880327 :ais523|sl!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forgot all about this nick < 1326381097 407314 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :sl? < 1326381107 325909 :ais523|sl!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a typo for something < 1326381108 979105 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/sbv/0.9.24/doc/html/Data-SBV-Examples-CodeGeneration-GCD.html < 1326381109 420996 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1326381111 435652 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose i have fun creating trouble by saying things of an imbalancing nature < 1326381123 979058 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Why 12? We've empirically determined that this algorithm will recurse at most 12 times for arbitrary 8-bit numbers. Of course, this is a claim that we shall prove below." < 1326381124 246653 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what next.. what next? < 1326381127 95697 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh, it only works for 8-bits < 1326381127 632550 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523|sl, I believe I didn't actually handle arbitrarily wide playfield (because bash only had one-dimensional arrays) just a very large value < 1326381135 807191 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523|sl, and that didn't trip up mycology < 1326381142 958715 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll tell you what next < 1326381143 628620 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sgcd :: SWord8 -> SWord8 -> SWord8 < 1326381143 801455 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sgcd a b = go a b 12 < 1326381143 957632 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : where go :: SWord8 -> SWord8 -> SWord8 -> SWord8 < 1326381143 957905 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : go x y c = ite (c .== 0 ||| y .== 0) -- stop if y is 0, or if we reach the recursion depth < 1326381143 958017 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : x < 1326381144 515723 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : (go y y' (c-1)) < 1326381146 609914 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : where (_, y') = x `bvQuotRem` y < 1326381148 626571 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh! < 1326381150 546349 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it supports sharing < 1326381178 614488 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523|sl, anyway I have no clue where the source for that thing is, if I even have it still. It is probably around in a backup. Which year was it? < 1326381183 570790 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A program whose instructions exist in continuous space. < 1326381188 293940 :ais523|sl!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :2008 < 1326381193 111664 :ais523|sl!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you made cfunge a couple of days later < 1326381197 802396 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1326381218 323021 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe I was still learning C at the time < 1326381248 760813 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A further deviation of the continuous chess idea < 1326381279 431822 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh no. < 1326381292 984512 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, hm? < 1326381294 600049 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cellular automata are so friendly with their tile-alignment < 1326381294 755419 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523|sl: Hey, you'll hit fungot's first appearance soon, if you haven't already; that's in 2008 too. < 1326381294 911610 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: thank you for the positive approach which makes use of a gmo may be authorised against the will of the majority of members of parliament. < 1326381321 228587 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, wow that sounds scary < 1326381322 172761 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: mr president, here with me in this matter, though i feel this is necessary. my view is that dublin i achieved its objectives of regulating the market in may, as we know, allocates eur fnord million in the 2001 budget. having always been in favour of all the services and reception facilities must apply to all the others and extend its cooperation with states who find themselves excluded from it. < 1326381327 967264 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :iti isn't so funny when he gets at your ideas. < 1326381343 900161 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also I see that "^raw" was free-for-all at first, and the fourth thing the bot said on channel was "PISS OUT MY ASS". < 1326381352 158117 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :How... typical. < 1326381360 683993 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1326381362 740404 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :who said that < 1326381364 729007 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but an infinite space where there are only points and edges, all existing at relative distances from each other < 1326381367 594387 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: :D < 1326381375 735985 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, did it run on cfunge from the start or was it rcfunge first? < 1326381378 828677 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember < 1326381379 944876 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :rcfunge < 1326381384 329283 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326381390 440483 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: PISS OUT MY ASS < 1326381391 770208 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: mr president, i think that, while the agency has lost 20 because of these shortcomings that we are very happy, i think, is to consolidate what has been said demonstrates the tendency and effort to liberate tibet and censure the peoples republic of china since 1986, especially in the central southern areas of the country is very complex, because we need to deploy all the resources, if the ban remains in place, as was re < 1326381406 116000 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rc/Funge-98 was what I started with, yes. < 1326381408 205504 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: last night, that there are no easy answers. i hope that parliament will be right behind you. mr rack was right: the iraqi people should be given the power of the judiciary, with clear figures and sanctions. furthermore, there were procedures which the court of auditors' reports, and i would like to ask the european commission has been made so far on the closure of the pas de calais plant is the worst one. since the dis < 1326381420 657351 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: YUO BUG. < 1326381421 102644 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: madam president, it is in taking repressive measures, restore the constitutional state and release all 30 remaining political prisoners. < 1326381427 113495 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: STILL NOT ELLIOTT. < 1326381427 382172 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: mr president, i would like to give a high profile in contrast to the much discussed issue of category. as you will be able to turn back the clock of history. < 1326381438 193974 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what causes that bug? < 1326381445 603381 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What bug? < 1326381447 569376 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's part of the same corruption thing. < 1326381452 54464 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see no bug. < 1326381469 845453 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: yeah i just find the discrete space of befunge to be too "easy" < 1326381479 728840 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you said one line and it highlighted you 3 times rather than the person who actually triggered it < 1326381491 584936 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm maybe it is overlong lines or such? < 1326381505 913587 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, try increasing the size of some buffers to more than what should be required? < 1326381511 645566 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :discrete 2d graphs in general, with a finite number of neighbours for each cell < 1326381518 521401 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how dull < 1326381522 879485 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it could be the text-generation making overlong sentences, though those should have limits. < 1326381526 35768 :ais523|sl!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1326381528 296711 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aaah!!! < 1326381529 585787 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1326381534 764589 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Here's how it saw the last lines: http://sprunge.us/cdNL < 1326381548 716615 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Oh. < 1326381563 526503 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hrrm. < 1326381581 214462 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Can the text generator overflow if a /word/ is too long? < 1326381581 522738 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, that explains why Pietbot isn't working! < 1326381587 713865 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Like, it's under, appends a word, and that makes it go oevr. < 1326381588 530862 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :over. < 1326381628 494723 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't really recall at all. My guess is it's writing directly to the "output line" buffer, but I could be worng. < 1326381630 553750 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :^source < 1326381630 710123 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://git.zem.fi/fungot/blob/HEAD:/fungot.b98 < 1326381632 803992 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, just in case you might want to try valgrind. I can't say I have debugged the network code much past making sure mycology passes, which iirc gives 100% branch coverage (excluding "failed to connect" style branches) < 1326381686 209047 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really see what sort of C code bug could cause that result though < 1326381693 895143 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :the code is fairly simple iirc < 1326381817 174697 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :100% branch coverage excluding branches. < 1326381845 908443 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I should point out that there are actually branches in cfunge testing if malloc returned NULL :P < 1326381855 763167 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I'm talking about that sort of branches. < 1326381871 285545 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and a lot of input validation < 1326381877 383972 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Line 0 is the input buffer I read to with SOCK; line 3 has the current IRC message line before parsing, and is also used for the reply; lines 4... are the separate parts (prefix, command, arguments) of the IRC line. If I mungle around on line 3, that shouldn't matter, since in the next round it *should* copy a new line on top of it. Line 8 is used for reading the babble model files, and line 9 has the generated tokens of the sentence. < 1326381879 341631 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have code to test all of that < 1326381885 578641 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :except the malloc ones < 1326381898 71265 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :In general though I'd expect that even if one of these buffers overflow, they'd stay on their respective lines. < 1326381927 766373 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm any literal newlines that might mess up anywhere? < 1326381934 918722 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait you use FILE right? < 1326381937 474343 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so probably not < 1326381986 353583 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :about that good math bad math thing, the guy didn't give any references so i think its ok to hold onto your definitions of TC for now < 1326381987 147022 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, and even if you 'p' a newline it won't change the topology of the space (sadly). But of course there might well be bugs in anywhere. < 1326382002 820699 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I was thinking about io with i < 1326382004 285151 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :until there is some signifigant proof < 1326382008 212395 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could run into newline issues there < 1326382020 398915 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right. Well, no, I don't use 'i' except for ^reload. < 1326382034 252236 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean the mere fact that the guy is a mathematician phd blogger working at google doesn't give him final word < 1326382071 850804 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, anyway how many bytes do you read from the socket? Could you end up with reading 511 out of 512 chars or such? < 1326382084 477870 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :afaik SOCK doesn't split into lines for you < 1326382097 290720 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, so I assume you deal with partial lines somehow? < 1326382106 492141 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I read up to fff** bytes at a time. < 1326382110 363934 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : about that good math bad math thing, the guy didn't give any references so i think its ok to hold onto your definitions of TC for now < 1326382118 332170 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what if you have a partial line in the OS buffer? < 1326382123 853194 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: The guy is prominent enough to *be* the reference, methinks. < 1326382141 7009 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so how did you guys get it wrong? :P < 1326382151 142859 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :might be a state of panic < 1326382155 767451 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Yes, and even if you 'p' a newline it won't change the topology of the space (sadly). < 1326382157 418132 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, a line could be split over multiple packets due to Nagel's algorithm bunching up a bit of data and you hitting the limit for the packet size in the middle of a line < 1326382158 974049 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Very sadly indeed. < 1326382173 566745 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably due to other reasons as well < 1326382176 465154 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as language goes, language changes.. gay doesn't mean happy < 1326382182 122430 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe TC now means TE < 1326382200 453628 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and maybe this guy is a grump about terminology < 1326382227 667054 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It reads into line 0, appending it after the end of any previous incomplete line; then processes all complete lines (that end in CR or LF), and finally copies whatever trailing bytes remain after the last CR or LF to start of line 0, so that the next read appends to that. < 1326382234 817754 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Or anyway that's what it's supposed to do. < 1326382238 898277 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1326382273 958924 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :For each newline it copies the complete IRC-line to line 3, and then does whatever is necessary. < 1326382275 71936 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok i guess he may be right < 1326382289 243664 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it ignores empty lines before that bit of code, but that shouldn't really be relevant. < 1326382311 61726 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(For example the empty line between CR and LF if the server's sending CRLF-terminated lines like it IIRC should.) < 1326382312 276494 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't see any obvious problems in the algorithms < 1326382322 576839 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't feel like debugging befunge code written by someone else < 1326382330 562507 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I just looked at SOCK.c < 1326382334 888256 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it looks in order < 1326382355 263064 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :very simple code for R < 1326382362 22272 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Can you write an n-cursor k-d tree zipper for me, please? Thanks < 1326382414 788399 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what would happen if the server sent LF terminated or CR terminated? < 1326382429 817201 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing much, except there wouldn't be any empty lines to ignore. < 1326382434 557334 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It accepts both as terminators. < 1326382438 61285 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, also if you replay the input, does the bug still happen? < 1326382454 965886 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, IIRC; that's sort-of why I suspect the babblerator. < 1326382464 646151 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you do the randomness? < 1326382467 253587 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though it of course might have to do with the reads getting split up at different places. < 1326382472 346167 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :With "?", what else?-) < 1326382473 17638 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(?) < 1326382475 32914 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1326382487 817743 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I believe there is some fingerprint that provides random(n), not sure < 1326382491 26871 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I needs to go grocery shopping now, back laters. < 1326382494 598721 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :cya < 1326382535 88611 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: basically seems to me he is trying to say that a language/machine is TE, but a program is TC < 1326382539 308727 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yes, FIXP (an rcfunge one) provides D for fixed point randomness < 1326382547 302360 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, integer randomness even < 1326382559 789678 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I see I do in the rather naive way. < 1326382577 517165 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(random() % n) <-- don't do this at home kids < 1326382599 546389 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(at least I left a comment about it) < 1326382600 632836 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It's about the distinction between a Turing equivalent computing system, and a Turing complete computation. " < 1326382721 63547 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't worry guys im sure your wiki pages don't need updating < 1326383074 917765 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1326383095 443980 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326383157 82769 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :im a teeny bit arrogant :P < 1326383189 464591 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it possible to make lambdabot give someone a message at a particular time < 1326383216 251267 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :who created lambabot, was it roger g? < 1326383217 635009 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, if that time is "when they next speak", sure < 1326383238 26487 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: Many people. < 1326383247 434389 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh ok < 1326383252 473019 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, I was thinking more along the lines of first of february < 1326383265 899883 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm.. < 1326383300 808983 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: It's been around for at least 8 years, I think. < 1326383304 77230 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably longer. < 1326383341 306066 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: do you mean to simulate a regular @tell on the specified moment? < 1326383356 612833 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, that would be nice, but not necassarily < 1326383373 631925 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the person might not be there at the specified time < 1326383384 549327 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's going to be me < 1326383500 988115 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: Just @tell yourself to @tell yourself about it then. < 1326383508 866167 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And keep re@telling yourself about it until the day before. < 1326383535 463698 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell ngevd Is it possible to make lambdabot give someone a message at a particular time < 1326383535 868910 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1326383555 607597 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages < 1326383556 9581 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21 said 20s ago: Is it possible to make lambdabot give someone a message at a particular time < 1326383610 706071 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats my try < 1326383709 747676 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal, I was thinking more along the lines of first of february <-- log on then and give them that message? < 1326383718 831809 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, or schedule cron on your computer to send it? < 1326383738 30936 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1326383824 648721 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the difference with me is i have practical uses for these topics < 1326383851 491540 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :im not trying to fix whats not broken < 1326383861 794517 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21 is actually a Computer Science teacher < 1326383874 870408 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, evolution vs intelligent design is not actually helpful :D < 1326383920 984727 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least it's not a useful end in itself. i guess it generates cool things in the same way as chess ai research does < 1326383949 665210 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chess AI is next-to-useless except for playing chess < 1326383962 362529 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What would be useful is an AI for some psychological game < 1326383962 520378 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh crud < 1326383965 488722 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like Uno < 1326383997 705937 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i mean (in my idealistic fairyland) that chess AI research improves the AI technology and such < 1326384011 960069 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :can i prove it? no.. i just take peoples word on it < 1326384030 794284 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: I think gmail has a todo date reminder thing. < 1326384032 665083 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could use that. < 1326384034 477024 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess its like how games create a market for graphics cards which accelerates their development < 1326384071 623151 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, poker? < 1326384091 224722 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, also check your phone, I can put reminders in mine < 1326384111 407096 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :like "08:00 exam" < 1326384114 879033 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah, I never have my phone on < 1326384129 303817 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gmail seems the best option < 1326384130 914851 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only turn mine off when sleeping < 1326384147 611135 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and unless I'm home it is always in my pocket < 1326384155 303724 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :when I'm home it is usually somewhere on my desk < 1326384187 19248 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :traditional chinese medicine may have developed due to attempts to create an immortality system < 1326384237 586359 :cheater!~cheater@dslb-084-057-001-153.pools.arcor-ip.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1326384259 204714 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :chemistry may have developed due to trying to turn lead into gold < 1326384296 5426 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc < 1326384301 632840 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is probably possible but not very cost efficient < 1326384342 376277 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm lead is 89 and gold 79. I guess you need to split lead to get gold then < 1326384366 388215 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gold and Neon? < 1326384378 6529 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this painting itself is cooler than the act it depicts http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c1/JosephWright-Alchemist-1.jpg < 1326384386 896424 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, is that the difference? < 1326384396 447870 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1326384409 686136 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Neon has 10 protons < 1326384412 752965 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, well we want to get the lighter element out of the heavier, not the other way around < 1326384414 141798 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so hrrm < 1326384427 517422 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm no physisist < 1326384439 374329 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor am I < 1326384480 327756 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for me, the goal is always games < 1326384503 352857 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh? < 1326384510 768446 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1326384519 750280 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what does it depict < 1326384523 598315 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, and goal for what? < 1326384526 110692 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :alchemy < 1326384532 414195 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^it depicts alchemy < 1326384535 211542 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, I meant more specifically < 1326384543 833686 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dunno man i stumbled on it in wiki < 1326384546 663016 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1326384553 682277 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :then I don't get the cooler thingy you just said < 1326384554 488729 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i mean the goal of any study or serious work < 1326384562 365541 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool as in impressive < 1326384571 169234 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :alchemy inspired that painting < 1326384578 6763 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, so in the end you want games out of everything? < 1326384587 504391 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :computer games? < 1326384588 832932 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and.. i think the painting is more valuable than gold < 1326384639 621973 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, i don't want to limit it to computer games < 1326384664 866171 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but primarily yes < 1326384680 232242 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just as most music is done through a computer these days :P < 1326384685 557250 :KingOfKarlsruhe!~chatzilla@p5B132956.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326384692 762282 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok well i know the playing isn't < 1326384695 352484 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the listening is < 1326384713 715559 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh.. no? It is generally done through sound waves < 1326384716 308956 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1326384867 893807 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have done the thinkin < 1326384870 877705 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^thinking < 1326384884 649696 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no good reason why gaming can't be an end in itself < 1326384886 607662 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-161-147-186.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326385262 189515 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thing I just wrote: < 1326385263 803602 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :class R t where < 1326385263 959846 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : simple < 1326385264 207697 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : :: ((t ~ Void) => Proxy () -> r) < 1326385264 363971 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : -> (forall a. (t ~ Const a, Reg a) => Proxy a -> r) < 1326385264 364159 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : -> ((t ~ Id) => Proxy () -> r) < 1326385264 880241 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : -> (forall a b. (t ~ (a :+: b), R a, R b) => Proxy (a (), b ()) -> r) < 1326385266 907335 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : -> (forall a b. (t ~ (a :*: b), R a, R b) => Proxy (a (), b ()) -> r) < 1326385268 760039 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : -> (forall a b. (t ~ (a :. b), R a, R b) => Proxy (a (), b ()) -> r) < 1326385270 869486 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : -> r < 1326385298 904194 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have but the vaguest idea what this doesw < 1326385832 335468 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what is Proxy? < 1326385854 797339 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t Proxy < 1326385855 962895 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: data constructor `Proxy' < 1326385856 119116 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, the sky is beatiful to the west < 1326385861 637410 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not built in indeed < 1326386539 82472 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-145-216.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326386555 103763 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-84.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1326386662 840375 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326386907 513760 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, I vaguely think it's a thing to avoid using undefined::Blah all the time, but not sure < 1326386921 533301 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1326386924 502152 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/tagged/0.2.3.1/doc/html/Data-Proxy.html < 1326386949 860873 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what does tagged do? < 1326386959 606224 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Provides Data.Proxy and Data.Tagged. < 1326386975 326274 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: helpful < 1326386990 385257 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo 'package Foo; our $x;' > test.pl; perl -e 'package Foo; our $x = 2; do "test.pl"; print $x' < 1326386994 487439 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Provides newtype wrappers for phantom types to avoid unsafely passing dummy arguments" < 1326386996 789364 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 < 1326387003 91272 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh ho < 1326387003 648276 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, right < 1326387023 418095 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so a non-assigned our declaration does not rewrite anything. < 1326387027 234459 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this could be USEFUL < 1326387042 39528 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :" This can be used in place of the more traditional but less safe idiom of passing in an undefined value with the type, because unlike an (s -> b), a Tagged s b can't try to use the argument s as a real value." < 1326387045 34482 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get it now < 1326387085 995557 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Proxy s -> b) is nicer than (Tagged s b). < 1326387157 823992 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So Proxy Foo is an abstract thing that ... refers to type Foo without having a value? < 1326387211 873127 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Proxy a = Proxy < 1326387212 987537 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO ABSTRACT < 1326387248 22062 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, was wondering how to make Proxys < 1326387255 577859 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, Proxy::Int instead of undefined::Int < 1326387272 349877 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ... < 1326387279 529164 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah Proxy is a great Int. < 1326387280 376380 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er < 1326387290 157606 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Proxy::(Proxy Int) < 1326387390 792683 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can think of preferring to use a Tagged over a Proxy < 1326387405 558391 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Means just an untag, instead of a dummy Proxy argument < 1326387480 390377 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Taggeds are a lot harder to write implementation code with. < 1326387487 375546 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :With proxies you can easily retag to recurse etc. < 1326387623 707926 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I'll understand Reflection better < 1326387666 660074 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why proxy s -> a instead of Proxy s -> a? < 1326387881 259686 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let me see if I understand the usage: Code that calls code that .. etc. that use configuration stuff just add a class constraint to their type signature. No extra argument or anything like that. A function that wants the data gets at it by building a Proxy of the appropriate type (ScopedTypeVariables perhaps?) and calling reflect on it. The whole thing is run with reify < 1326387903 864854 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I'm not entirely sure it makes sense. < 1326387960 407466 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, the whole conglamoration needs to accept an argument < 1326388005 210588 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess every function accepts an extra argument, but ... wait, that makes the whole thing pointless < 1326388208 700529 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :class Encoding t id (**) pu (++) su where < 1326388208 969866 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : p_encoding < 1326388209 125985 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : :: ((t ~ id) => r) < 1326388209 126064 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : -> ((t ~ pu) => r) < 1326388209 126108 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : -> ((t ~ su) => r) < 1326388209 784638 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : -> (forall a b. (t ~ (a**b), < 1326388211 842951 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Encoding a id (**) pu (++) su, < 1326388213 721379 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Encoding b id (**) pu (++) su) < 1326388215 930409 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : => Proxy (a (), b ()) -> r) < 1326388217 678987 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : -> (forall a b. (t ~ (a++b), < 1326388219 902943 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Encoding a id (**) pu (++) su, < 1326388221 881182 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Encoding b id (**) pu (++) su) < 1326388223 760441 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : => Proxy (a (), b ()) -> r) < 1326388225 654158 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : -> r < 1326388227 846632 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :class Algebraic t id (**) pu (++) su where < 1326388229 839180 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : type ADT t :: * -> * < 1326388231 799855 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : encode :: t -> ADT t t < 1326388233 771398 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : decode :: ADT t t -> t < 1326388235 827978 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : p_algebraic :: ((Encoding (ADT t) id (**) pu (++) su) => r) -> r < 1326388312 138103 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Kind mis-match < 1326388312 331176 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : The third argument of `Algebraic' should have kind `(* -> *) < 1326388312 331353 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : -> (* -> *) < 1326388312 580665 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : -> * < 1326388312 737508 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : -> *', < 1326388313 118774 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : but `**' has kind `* -> * -> *' < 1326388314 865070 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :grr. < 1326388896 944629 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1326389505 917883 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh nice the last section of this book is some group theory proofs < 1326389511 440992 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :we won't get to cover that in class though < 1326389617 522059 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first half of the book is... literally the same as in discrete math. < 1326389789 496792 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I should take real analysis. er wait I think that requires calc 3 which I didn't take... < 1326389800 855885 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :MAYBE I SHOULD MAJOR IN MATH????? < 1326389809 486185 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or minor < 1326389811 3440 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could do that. < 1326389830 824117 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or.... dual major? < 1326389833 76431 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a thing. < 1326389871 197502 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think you need to find a polymath to be an apprentice for < 1326389876 991828 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that could be a completely dumb idea < 1326389883 953869 :KingOfKarlsruhe!~chatzilla@p5B132956.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88 [Firefox 9.0.1/20111220165912] < 1326389990 944085 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it is implicit that it could be a dumb idea, i bring attention to it because anyone who actually took that idea to heart could end up in the shadows of someone who doesn't want to be outshined < 1326390067 959487 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :verily if you want to anticipate new paradigms you need to have some freedom < 1326390081 286548 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i guess everyone needs some training to get started < 1326390139 320407 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean ahh why must i give advice < 1326390179 430517 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, it is as true for academics as it is for sports that you get out what you put in < 1326390309 881010 :cheater_!~cheater@178-26-46-133-dynip.superkabel.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is a polymath itidus21 < 1326390321 820556 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a polymath is an intellectual badass < 1326390337 205857 :cheater_!~cheater@178-26-46-133-dynip.superkabel.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1326390338 187397 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the kind who have villages named after them < 1326390417 395248 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could be argued that they are a jack of many trades < 1326390442 416513 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i think there is some synergy they get from so many trades < 1326390466 681955 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wiki defines synergy as "Synergy may be defined as two or more things functioning together to produce a result not independently obtainable." < 1326390479 391292 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which fits perfectly with what i said < 1326390592 126244 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :examples might be leonardo da vinci, gottfried leibniz < 1326390602 538618 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :im sure newton also < 1326390652 486276 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_polymaths < 1326390779 216887 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to be fair it is more about the mind than the body, but some would argue that a strong mind requires a strong body < 1326390800 747498 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_polygons. You know, just famous polygons from around the world. < 1326390825 648551 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, there is a "List of polygons, polyhedra and polytopes". < 1326390834 746790 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's just types of polygons, not individual famous ones. < 1326390871 72192 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course it does contain e.g. the great inverted snub icosidodecahedron, so it's got that going for it. < 1326390899 787716 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_inverted_snub_icosidodecahedron < 1326390916 393429 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like a small cute hedgehog, except not quite. < 1326390924 483267 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :merge them into a "List of polygons, polyhedra, polymaths and polytopes" < 1326390934 945190 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and polyglots < 1326390959 752786 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: That is my new favourite polyhedron. < 1326390975 608412 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Polypolys < 1326390987 488280 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Things that have more than one poly- descriptor < 1326391196 750930 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :im always struck by ideas.. im not sure whether saying them all is positive. this idea which just hit me due to reading a page wrong is a dictionary where every definition is a poem < 1326391223 677769 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not an example usage but literally a definition < 1326391263 819611 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is the idea born of someone who owns so many dictionaries that he realizes they are useless < 1326391308 392267 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose poetry would merely be a kind of sugar coating though for the definition < 1326391454 104975 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should try to write the more class descriptions for Aberration Saver prestige class of D&D game, and write some of the spells which have not yet been written (such as Confuse Objects) < 1326391466 757895 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh heres a nice quote < 1326391472 884429 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :As Jorge Luis Borges says in the prologue to "El otro, el mismo": "It is often forgotten that (dictionaries) are artificial repositories, put together well after the languages they define. The roots of language are irrational and of a magical nature." < 1326391572 553052 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: O, I didn't see that. But, yes OK. But, there are constructed languages as well and they are difference < 1326391626 540946 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i got into a slight argument over lojban on new years eve < 1326391729 835090 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh fuck its already been done < 1326391745 107042 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The first Sanskrit dictionary, the Amarakośa, was written by Amara Sinha ca. 4th century CE. Written in verse, it listed around 10,000 words." < 1326391788 778436 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/dnd/other_stuff/levels.tex < 1326392326 489492 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: is that a program or a tex document or both? < 1326392532 941414 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: A TeX document is also a program, so it will be both < 1326392578 329140 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it laying out d&d rules? < 1326392605 665415 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean uhh.. the tex is just used as a markup language right? < 1326392609 975872 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: No, only the experience points needed for each level. The book only has up to level 20 but this one has as many as will fit on the page. < 1326392621 294852 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ya < 1326392627 548113 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmmm < 1326392691 806059 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And there is still more room on the page, so I could add more columns, do you have idea what information to add on one page? < 1326392703 961850 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know d&d < 1326392730 561935 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i don't make for a good roleplayer.. i don't like the politics < 1326392792 539435 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the whole bit where one can make an ego investment in their character and then set up conditions of winning or losing < 1326392797 502846 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Politics? < 1326392804 870600 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably not in d&d < 1326392851 642027 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but roleplay especially online < 1326392862 491007 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, uh? < 1326392873 392343 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, I'm not familiar with what you mean < 1326392875 566394 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like "you have to be descriptive" < 1326392877 701067 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1326392898 509546 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, we do try to be descriptive. < 1326392922 242384 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have issues thats all < 1326392936 402127 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, I mean with roleplaying online. In which type of game? < 1326392941 326482 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :some people use roleplay as an escape from reality as i'm told.. but i can't make that leap < 1326392961 880340 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :reality has too much gravity for me < 1326392994 376134 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I play as monster character... so, that is part of the escape from reality; but I also sometimes use actual physics and so on to resolve a spell, so therefore it is similar to reality even if it isn't < 1326393008 49579 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastelog plaindromes < 1326393013 59419 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastelog palindromes < 1326393032 808384 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this should be good < 1326393038 311743 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.13749 < 1326393058 388958 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well... not so good < 1326393094 678832 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.30415 < 1326393100 342748 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, do you not read fantasy? < 1326393124 375232 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i haven't... i think that makes it extra difficult to play fantasy < 1326393124 571397 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you can enjoy fantasy novels then you can probably enjoy RPGs < 1326393142 548075 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, try playing a non-online RPG? < 1326393146 716920 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :skyrim or whatever < 1326393154 606254 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And text adventure game is also a computer game similar to a role playing game. < 1326393156 889229 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :witcher 2 is rather good, but might be too dark for your tastes < 1326393209 527497 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i haven't been corrupted by exposure to the books in the sense that my idea of roleplay is still somewhat free from convention < 1326393221 851434 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, text adventures usually annoy me. You have to try to guess the commands usually and also I can't make a clear map of the environment in my head. < 1326393225 696059 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i have seen a lot of the types of roleplayers i describe chatting < 1326393245 653748 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, "corrupted"? < 1326393252 633945 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its kind of funny the whole model of the world which have been developed around rpgs < 1326393284 943435 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :also eh, RPGs is just an interesting way to pass free the time for me. < 1326393289 323366 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :each town has a tavern.. in this tavern adventurers sort of.. < 1326393299 178960 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, not really, that is a stereotype < 1326393302 451796 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :im going to be wrong for a few liens < 1326393315 865705 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, also you can have RPGs in other settings than fantasy < 1326393327 648514 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fantasy is certainly the most common but sci-fi is rather common as well < 1326393329 264692 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not always in D&D game and stuff, they don't always have a tavern, or whatever < 1326393334 529681 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :They are all different < 1326393346 103768 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1326393362 724812 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, you could set an RPG in a contemporary environment easily < 1326393389 264478 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like to play multi-class? Do you like to play as monster character? Do you like to do strange thing in game? Sometimes even the referee didn't know you were going to do that, and that make game interesting too? < 1326393407 662332 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't like competitive role playing anyway < 1326393418 609248 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, consider Deus Ex: It is an FPS/RPG hybrid set into the relatively near future (something like 50 years or so) < 1326393432 899888 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like cooperative because i have some neuroses which make it difficult to compete < 1326393438 486698 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, me? < 1326393456 656080 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Including, but not limited to, you; yes. < 1326393462 615920 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1326393464 710600 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, I tend to play computer RPGs mostly < 1326393467 141392 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm in that palindromes pastelog a lot... < 1326393476 492130 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, single player most of the time < 1326393482 79962 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just for "E, esoteric, ire to see" < 1326393483 99911 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: so rpgs in this sense are not referentially transparent < 1326393491 909161 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Computer RPGs are not real role playing games < 1326393498 721191 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, how so? < 1326393502 272009 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: What do you mean by that? < 1326393515 259703 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean "Sometimes even the referee didn't know you were going to do that, and that make game interesting too?" < 1326393522 333044 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, how are they less real than an RPG on pen and paper? < 1326393535 818027 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I mean it isn't a role playing game < 1326393538 504871 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, NWN even uses D&D ruleset for example < 1326393548 966178 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :That isn't the point < 1326393554 537543 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, what /is/ the point then? < 1326393561 302259 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1326393561 571044 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i understand the idea i think, im just playing dumb to flush out the topic < 1326393573 337273 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and uh < 1326393577 56414 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but haveing said that i havent done a proper game of d&d < 1326393581 743529 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :im not playing dumb much < 1326393628 939178 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, anyway, I quite like computer RPGs. They move at a faster pace than pen & paper RPGs. < 1326393630 95504 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just that i dont quite need the concept explained < 1326393644 96941 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like non rpg rpgs the best < 1326393648 403270 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1326393667 703136 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, anything made in japan < 1326393668 224870 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Surely even you can see the dissimlarity of a role-playing game in which very little role-playing is involved. < 1326393687 630093 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1326393699 308808 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well that varies between different RPGs. Especially for online RPGs there can be quite a bit or role playing going on < 1326393718 964886 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1326393722 708572 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and pen&paper RPG can easily devolve into a min-max style game play < 1326393732 914706 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so no, the difference isn't that large at all < 1326393738 357869 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :japan have this way of japanifying everything that hits their shores and they certainly managed it for the rpg < 1326393743 483788 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott, and pen&paper RPG can easily devolve into a min-max style game play < 1326393745 310042 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only in Sweden. < 1326393752 916342 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, anyway you might like Deus Ex: Human Revolution, it is set into the near future, it is a RPG/FPS hybrid but it deals with interesting moral questions. < 1326393769 291992 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, not really. Ever played pen&paper D&D? < 1326393783 616808 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yeah my brother has that... i saw him play it.. pretty kick ass world simulation < 1326393789 374949 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have once. And once I played a pen&paper RPG with GURPS < 1326393800 869068 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, the texture quality in that game is pretty shit though. < 1326393808 16948 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rolls eyes < 1326393814 492375 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, what? < 1326393830 627000 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the graphics thing :P < 1326393832 145963 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, it is a nice game. But it is obviously a console port. < 1326393837 300408 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahhh < 1326393868 51509 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, if you play it on a large computer monitor near you you see things in much more detail than on a TV further away < 1326393880 179655 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, and the result is that it is obviously a console port < 1326393889 193150 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :im not fussy... my video card sucks < 1326393905 254056 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it might not be playable. Who knows. < 1326393908 770138 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have intentions to upgrade my video card, however, i still doubt my pc can easily handle it < 1326393911 979366 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :try it and see < 1326393914 968801 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326393919 966260 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, how much ram and which CPU? < 1326393929 304276 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one moment < 1326393940 82112 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, I ran it from a slow HDD, only issue was that the loading time was like >half a minute < 1326393949 892447 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, can you just type something into IRC for me? < 1326393956 391019 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, when possible I play games from my SSD < 1326393958 928204 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1326393975 144095 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"/ignore Vorpal*!*@*" < 1326393982 386060 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, why? < 1326393985 435201 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, why on earth < 1326393994 462269 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it because he keeps saying my name over and over? < 1326393995 266875 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I gotta concur right now. < 1326394006 929283 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :vorpal hmm i have an idea... < 1326394009 463575 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh the highlight thing, sorry, used to high volue channels < 1326394010 135844 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, I'll explain once you've done it. < 1326394018 614629 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1326394023 646792 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it's most definitely the highlight thing. < 1326394039 212995 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :will try to remember it isn't needed < 1326394052 90235 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Usage: IGNORE < 1326394052 540406 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric : mask - host mask to ignore, eg: *!*@*.aol.com < 1326394052 695871 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric : types - types of data to ignore, one or all of: < 1326394052 696058 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric : PRIV, CHAN, NOTI, CTCP, DCC, INVI, ALL < 1326394052 696165 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric : options - NOSAVE, QUIET < 1326394060 98597 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right < 1326394061 840667 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see you use xchat < 1326394062 646540 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"/ignore Vorpal*!*@* ALL" < 1326394067 866684 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and don't do it < 1326394083 817534 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Phantom_Hoover is being a jerk here < 1326394090 115951 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ive done it cos i have to see where this is going :P < 1326394096 101127 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Excellent. < 1326394101 67272 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org TOPIC #esoteric :I'm not a boat, I'm a really, really beautiful cheese grater | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1326394110 594879 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could easily just say you did it and not do it < 1326394114 393214 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal is unbearable, and you haven't been around long enough to fully understand his unbearability. < 1326394119 37982 :MSleep!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net NICK :MDude < 1326394119 978142 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hehe < 1326394122 784504 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, oh shut up < 1326394133 918310 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sqrt(-Garfield) 926 < 1326394135 165124 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok unignored < 1326394141 154859 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :-_- < 1326394148 272126 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i will slow down.. < 1326394153 77804 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love #esoteric. < 1326394156 549880 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I think Phantom_Hoover is while not unbearable, quite close. :P < 1326394162 846222 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and he is also quite a jerk < 1326394170 261484 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(sometimes at least) < 1326394201 282346 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think what I want is Trex < 1326394210 509174 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its not that i don't like mathematics.. its just that my knowledge of coding is way out of step with my knowledge of math < 1326394212 655569 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, itidus21, if you have a reasonably modern CPU (say core 2 duo or such) and like 4 GB RAM then you can probably play most games. < 1326394220 322811 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, am I still on your ignore list? < 1326394220 997089 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(given an upgraded GPU) < 1326394227 292963 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though i'm not a good coder.. i'm an atrocious mathematician < 1326394237 30917 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, no, although you're on probation until you renounce Smith. < 1326394248 649434 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, who is this smith? < 1326394278 866323 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Matt Smith, actor of the eleventh (not counting Hammer films and audiobooks, etc) Doctor from the TV Serieses Doctor Who < 1326394287 186770 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh haha < 1326394302 763789 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I guess PH didn't like him < 1326394303 742941 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: "serieses" < 1326394303 898996 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1326394305 540816 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Intel(R) Core(TM)2 CPU 6300 @ 1.86GHz < 1326394305 983575 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric : ... 2gb ram < 1326394307 405846 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That gets you another ignore. < 1326394325 614251 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well okay, ram is quite cheap though < 1326394328 328249 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I was emphasising the plural-ness for effect < 1326394336 519709 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because I am a /poet/ < 1326394374 176983 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :the CPU is probably at the lower end as well. < 1326394406 958904 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't think Deus Ex: HR would cause much of a problem for that, you might not be able to run at max settings < 1326394431 606619 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :check the official system requirements though, and note that they probably err on the side of caution to avoid pissed off customers < 1326394476 306414 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am actually so awful at math that i can't transpose algebra expressions made up only of the alphabet of "=", "+", "*", "/", "-", "x", "^", "0", "1", "2", "3", "4", "5", "6", "7", "8", "9" < 1326394491 455849 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can get some of them.. but the problem is i don't get all of them < 1326394497 474095 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(system requirements is not an exact science, apart from the required disk space everything is pretty hard to calculate and you can't really test on every possible configuration) < 1326394518 170748 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, try base 2, that reduces the alphabet ;P < 1326394540 593713 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats the best way i can explain the level i'm at < 1326394555 30022 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i try to "dodge" algebra < 1326394585 274804 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Transpose? < 1326394589 913445 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup < 1326394598 470298 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was wondering about that too. < 1326394600 794652 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :trans as in change.. not sure about the pose < 1326394603 25859 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326394607 572089 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rewrite < 1326394619 908186 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :solve? < 1326394625 865909 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dunno < 1326394634 334324 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :find a variable :) < 1326394642 727869 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, anyway if you don't like me why don't /you/ simply ignore me? Rather than try to get other people to do so? < 1326394655 426283 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, that's pretty damn difficult in the general case. < 1326394657 787001 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i mean rewrite to x=[...] < 1326394696 535894 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :question: is a set of all possible strings in an alphabet of N symbols isomorphic to the set of all strings in ALL possible alphabets? < 1326394710 425044 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What. < 1326394730 13 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1326394731 78306 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean isomorphic < 1326394737 220641 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: but even for expressions with only 1 variable.. < 1326394739 818045 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :bijective function. < 1326394744 291223 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait that can't be right < 1326394745 954332 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"duh" < 1326394750 483385 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe 2 or 3.. i dunno < 1326394754 252784 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what do you mean all possible alphabets < 1326394758 710095 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :all of them < 1326394760 250924 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_> < 1326394768 945837 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :very helpful < 1326394777 64178 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you mean finite strings on finite alphabets? < 1326394780 706379 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1326394785 555843 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"duh" < 1326394799 562782 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"okay" < 1326394800 501644 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (what)S < 1326394800 657752 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1326394847 291694 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I mean I know a finite string with a finite N-sized alphabet has a bijective function to any other set of finite strings with a finite M-sized alphabet. < 1326394865 513624 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I wasn't sure if there was a bijective function from that set of strings to "all the other finite-alphabet strings ever" < 1326394894 786429 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure infinite-length strings are uncountable < 1326394913 418108 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :By the way, that http://i.imgur.com/pAy4z.png review that I think Deewiant linked is fake: http://www.amazon.com/gp/cdp/member-reviews/A15T4V4O8P803T/ref=cm_pdp_rev_all?ie=UTF8&sort_by=MostRecentReview :( < 1326394919 918779 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, i am here with only an elementary knowledge of math(s) and so it's more than a little strange < 1326394949 91475 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I modified this to fit on my oxygen tank and it ended up causing a small fire. Do not buy" "This connector is terrible. I need to connect a SATA connector to a old style molex 4 pin CD drive, but this connector does the opposite. Piece of junk and a waste of money" "I took a job that required me to make device drivers for some kind of weird thing with some blinking lights on it. I never made a driver before, but I am good at using Office and stu < 1326394949 360153 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ff so I told them I knew C++ and read a bit about it and was able to BS the interview. So I got this book and tried to understand how to make my drivers, but I couldn't and I got fired after 6 weeks. NOT RECOMMENDED for driver makers." < 1326394958 352182 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Nothing is more fun than getting trashed and ripping around the lake on my boat. This song reminds me of that!" < 1326394964 524747 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I guess it makes sense considering that binary can be used to represent all other strings. < 1326394966 69249 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually I suppose they could just be a very strange person who also apparently flies. < 1326394969 603639 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION will hold out hope. < 1326394974 950643 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :B. Meowsic Keyboard < 1326394975 938621 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :good good < 1326394976 364502 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-240-19.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326394978 349153 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just don't know the specific mapping < 1326394981 39692 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didnt actually anticipate math(s) at all on the topic of esolangs.. i had gotten this far without ever encountering the theory of computation < 1326394989 104141 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-145-216.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1326395029 939969 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: This was a place devoid of LIGHT and REASON before we all grew up and became REAL* MATHEMATICIANS* < 1326395031 538157 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*fake < 1326395033 905331 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*CS poseurs < 1326395037 910476 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, anyway if you don't like me why don't /you/ simply ignore me? Rather than try to get other people to do so? < 1326395062 172533 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, if you ever talk to me again I hope you answer that question :) < 1326395074 561046 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, consider that he may be ignoring you < 1326395076 134466 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if you don't then I will just assume you did in fact finally ignore me) < 1326395080 865876 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: because he's better than you, obviously. < 1326395100 824610 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, my next line took care of that possibility yes < 1326395115 85855 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, so just because someone is better than someone else they should be arrogant about it? < 1326395120 102723 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1326395121 754812 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, that doesn't seem right to me < 1326395125 113707 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... < 1326395133 964592 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, okay that is a third possibility < 1326395139 4514 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe Edinburgh has blown up in a ball of fire < 1326395139 406187 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well, in #esoteric, that seems to be the rule. < 1326395155 68843 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: next you will probably tell me that this is a room of novices not fit to clean the shoes of the leading guys in the field < 1326395157 83473 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or...... < 1326395159 147789 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, anyway I don't think he is better than me. Better at some topics, sure. Worse at other ones probably. < 1326395166 12434 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well I didn't really mean that... < 1326395166 817074 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :are the so called leading guys in the field the ones with the biggest supercomputers < 1326395175 934816 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was kind of not totally serious. I don't have a metric with which to value the worth of human beings. < 1326395177 415010 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, but I don't think a person can be intrinsically better than another one < 1326395224 59949 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, fair enough, but I think the implications of it being taken seriously are worth considering < 1326395231 367618 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh.. im trolling at this point < 1326395234 126147 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes that was kind of my point. < 1326395236 626513 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, :) < 1326395275 575309 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the way i see it.. you can tell what the state of the art is by what the general populace has access to < 1326395278 302691 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : are the so called leading guys in the field the ones with the biggest supercomputers <-- not really no. Supercomputers aren't required for esolangs < 1326395322 925552 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : the way i see it.. you can tell what the state of the art is by what the general populace has access to <-- for what? Computers? < 1326395323 81901 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Esolangs are more of an art than a mathsy thing < 1326395323 461969 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Phantom_Hoover, if you ever talk to me again I hope you answer that question :) < 1326395323 731719 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think that the esoteric knowledge held by military mad scientists really is very practical < 1326395346 535935 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well obviously if he timed out I will agree he didn't receive it < 1326395348 68764 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :killing people is practical. < 1326395350 90459 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You really need to stop using :) like that all the time, it gets tired even quicker than usual when you do it all the time. < 1326395362 729616 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: :) < 1326395369 177156 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, indeed :) < 1326395373 651772 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: I thought you were ignoring me. < 1326395382 601738 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :he totally should < 1326395385 996094 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not really) < 1326395391 112305 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, he should. < 1326395396 258406 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1326395404 474190 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, i think if most people don't have access to it then it can be ignored < 1326395417 698366 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is access < 1326395427 888059 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: monqy denied access to the meaning of access. < 1326395429 42007 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, very much depend on what you are trying to accomplish. < 1326395436 769302 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: im sure bill gates has a secret tech room < 1326395444 952571 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :where he has billion$ toys < 1326395448 89331 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i too have a secret tech room < 1326395453 941387 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I need to sleep. Exam tomorrow. Computer graphics. Quite a fun topic. < 1326395479 558142 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326395496 845229 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome roper < 1326395501 64519 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :roper: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page < 1326395513 764658 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :guelcon < 1326395517 379437 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1326395533 371780 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1326395535 753686 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :low < 1326395549 591962 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are the chances of me learning group theory in a topology class? < 1326395578 681469 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathematical or geographic topology? < 1326395579 929073 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :0/0 < 1326395586 144360 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :maths < 1326395592 90209 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :roper: ah good < 1326395607 123674 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1326395609 949260 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's basically "I don't know" < 1326395616 550982 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I reckon roper's actually slightly further ahead in time to us < 1326395628 17490 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oopoo < 1326395630 255297 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :roper> low < 1326395639 361736 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :roper lives in bizarro world < 1326395646 817500 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1326395658 729193 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :car < 1326395667 746959 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1326395690 900274 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no car < 1326395694 429682 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no yes < 1326395695 906507 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1326395704 412657 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cdr < 1326395711 165680 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :flac < 1326395716 578779 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :calf < 1326395720 204593 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :midi < 1326395720 361113 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :moo < 1326395728 765110 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unknown < 1326395732 610868 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :undef < 1326395737 971519 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :redef < 1326395745 250389 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er... fed? < 1326395752 804929 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :feed < 1326395772 891896 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :beef < 1326395777 545298 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :blessed hashref of blessed globrefs < 1326395789 94334 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :too much < 1326395795 333864 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not enough!!! < 1326395797 479823 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :never enough < 1326395799 268986 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!!! < 1326395801 415152 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :! < 1326395802 86059 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!!!!!! < 1326395805 711904 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nevermind < 1326395810 846764 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> repeat '!' < 1326395811 518506 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!... < 1326395823 122832 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :always mind < 1326395826 673391 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :% < 1326395827 210571 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy motto < 1326395834 691540 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :5 < 1326395842 50757 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :true. < 1326395847 891922 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's numberwang! < 1326395854 880555 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!numberwang 5 < 1326395857 106583 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's numberwang! < 1326395866 130588 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1326395867 245337 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :roper: i just want to clarify this is the room of esoteric computer programming languages, not occult esoteric < 1326395874 409151 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrong its super occult < 1326395879 761228 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :supermax occult++ full < 1326395888 641241 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ioihgfdddf < 1326395891 367797 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you may know this im just making doubly clear so your time is not wasted < 1326395901 303925 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :too much < 1326395907 468471 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote ioihgfdddf < 1326395910 880006 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :800) ioihgfdddf < 1326395911 820060 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :good < 1326395912 875119 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rephtrase < 1326395915 756018 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :best 800 quote < 1326395921 953222 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote rephtrase < 1326395926 98638 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :801) rephtrase < 1326395927 711502 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :best 801 quote < 1326395932 267996 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1326395937 885027 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :listen < 1326395940 600493 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1326395941 42188 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1326395947 767618 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we should < 1326395950 938865 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1326395952 50628 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (~:S~:^)(!):S~:^ < 1326395952 207280 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ...too much output! < 1326395954 578263 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :implement < 1326395957 105983 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1326395957 376540 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1326395963 495531 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :we should implement < 1326395963 651853 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1326395966 408942 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes ok < 1326395970 555518 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :good good < 1326395972 70010 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1326395978 50031 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a language _ < 1326395985 950753 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl JIT yes < 1326395987 249424 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :brilliant < 1326395993 152006 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :outstanding < 1326396002 322441 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :standoutish < 1326396006 497681 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1326396009 898746 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :autotopoptimised < 1326396021 940129 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Auto top optimised? < 1326396022 209696 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm agree. < 1326396027 995154 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ues < 1326396028 841782 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm angree < 1326396030 517704 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :y < 1326396039 301763 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :-n < 1326396041 328677 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1326396048 132636 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ues i think < 1326396059 427537 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"yes" is probably what you want < 1326396065 466767 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :y < 1326396069 451992 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1326396075 212527 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: nh < 1326396084 86611 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ues si ues < 1326396089 998749 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kgvjl < 1326396094 657487 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sumamoito is the most inrfficient < 1326396104 895603 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1326396113 566885 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :build -O < 1326396114 374411 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no < 1326396118 131514 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :mount kilimanjaro < 1326396118 802604 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :we must < 1326396121 852763 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :refficientise it < 1326396125 490561 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean < 1326396128 388599 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Atrapado? < 1326396128 841600 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1326396129 687131 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rfficientise it < 1326396133 490772 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1326396148 579915 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yres < 1326396162 649880 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/w/index.php?title=Vowels&curid=4086&diff=26989&oldid=24085 < 1326396165 294226 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :on screen keyvoard < 1326396170 782027 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: So how'd the SMT'ing go < 1326396170 938365 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: ayudame! < 1326396171 185586 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :new vowels for new breakfast homesteads < 1326396190 64911 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry < 1326396197 874740 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: It got into some kind of loop; I think my gcd definition was wrong or something < 1326396201 849489 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I'll look at it some more tomorrow < 1326396205 42218 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :battery: 15 < 1326396228 91892 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :SMT? < 1326396229 917560 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :vowels looks cool < 1326396233 408934 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have some optimizations alteady < 1326396249 621594 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: so many terraces < 1326396259 456801 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like add on hardware < 1326396267 729345 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In an esoteric programming language, optimization is not recommended < 1326396269 504909 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(satisfiability modulo theories) < 1326396277 86971 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: I am completely disagree < 1326396296 141875 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am completely disangree < 1326396298 641525 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yrs but we ned tine final implementation < 1326396309 800015 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^tune < 1326396310 917467 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1326396314 641769 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, adding on of features to make shorter source code beyond what is necessary for Turing-completeness < 1326396314 797557 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry < 1326396316 499108 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1326396319 205890 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you're befunge < 1326396323 826557 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: nope wrong < 1326396338 815694 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl best esolang fro example < 1326396338 971847 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have controversial opinions < 1326396343 449068 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :source code unchanged < 1326396343 605274 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: you're discussing tarpits there < 1326396347 557104 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not all esolangs are tarpits < 1326396347 730554 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :True < 1326396353 3517 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :im houses < 1326396368 839740 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but most of the better ones are, because good esolangs are there to convey a new idea, and a tarpit's usually the clearest way to do that < 1326396371 335989 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :best fro example < 1326396374 841951 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :SumaMoito is, however, a tarpit < 1326396382 878010 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"SumaMoito is a family of languages that aims to include minimal Turing-complete languages with a particular style." < 1326396387 358729 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Haskell isn't very tarpitty. maybe in Core. < 1326396387 627278 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 tarpits, rather < 1326396397 237396 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and also conveys some new ideas. < 1326396401 982896 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :eg hardware-add ÷÷ sumamoito add < 1326396410 103806 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well... hmmm < 1326396411 253876 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe not. < 1326396418 28528 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :'/'/'/'''''''''/ < 1326396423 112941 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, are any of the main ideas in Haskell new in Haskell? I thought Haskell was busy codifying them and using them well, not inventing them < 1326396432 34699 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably. < 1326396437 541167 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know where they originate, except for ML. < 1326396442 693435 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and lambda calculus < 1326396458 125634 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric : collapde-afd < 1326396459 414053 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :FORTRAN < 1326396466 17780 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell is kind of a synthesis of already existing ideas, I guess. < 1326396483 194302 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC the reason Haskell was invented was that so many people were trying to make lazy functional langs all at once < 1326396486 391559 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they decided to join forces < 1326396486 793602 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: yes, Haskell is based on FORTRAN < 1326396486 949847 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really < 1326396489 250190 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah what ais523 said < 1326396498 890332 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not sure if "pure" was in there from the start, or added later) < 1326396505 759840 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically pure non-strict languages were just coming into existence < 1326396512 702468 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and everyone had their own dialect < 1326396517 86295 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was miranda and i think lazy ml etc. < 1326396517 528806 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sumamoito add is on hardware add is slightly more than ologn < 1326396522 990268 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus the haskell committee < 1326396537 829637 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm actually thinking that we need a pure total functional language < 1326396538 769773 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mm < 1326396544 131430 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the typeclass system is a haskell innovation though I think < 1326396550 473760 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe with the ability to use partiality under controlled circumstances < 1326396556 262822 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and probably Haskell's most prominent added feature < 1326396560 637221 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: meh, that already exists < 1326396568 731986 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, total languages can't express anything, but the things they can they're better for < 1326396580 28532 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah yeah < 1326396605 666164 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :transform languahe features to match hardware fearures < 1326396607 986821 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if a language is both total and pure, evaluation strategy is irrelevant < 1326396617 712318 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can use call-by-telephone and it still works just fine < 1326396623 418576 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :interestingly, some definitions of weak typing count ad-hoc polymorphism as weak typing. < 1326396628 826885 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1326396631 914080 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i'm not sure whether you think you're stating non-obvious things or not :P < 1326396656 505037 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I think it's obvious, and yet people don't care about it anyway < 1326396671 80803 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure they do < 1326396676 899625 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :roper: yes compilers that compile to machine languages are good at that. < 1326396687 617181 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1326396703 621724 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but collapse all language features? < 1326396710 259695 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what about call-by-nothing evaluation? < 1326396716 803138 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :where you do nothing isntead of evaluate. < 1326396717 612104 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Did you settle on whether Funge-98 is an esolang? < 1326396721 843972 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we nedd an uncollapsed language < 1326396734 334894 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I think it isn't, but I also think I can't justify my claim in terms that other people will understand < 1326396739 346148 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'm not going to bother trying to argue the point < 1326396741 531776 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :roper: depends on what you mean by collapse < 1326396757 147677 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Fair enough I guess. < 1326396761 678945 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :reduce to hardware operations < 1326396762 722938 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-197-171.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326396765 542156 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :roper: compiling a language doesn't remove its features, it just implements them a certain way. < 1326396778 248534 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-240-19.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1326396779 652463 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder what he has in mind < 1326396782 672785 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure$ < 1326396791 607185 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think Funge-98 is an esolang, FWIW (and I don't think it's particularly esoteric myself). < 1326396804 26213 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the definition of an esolang you generally use? < 1326396817 451453 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Who, me or ais523? < 1326396827 547322 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: a language for which writing a fully-featured standard library would be a waste of time < 1326396834 771824 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Both, I think, which is why I didn't address it. < 1326396840 682180 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Terrible definition IMO < 1326396843 540469 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :line wrap not allowed. q < 1326396853 122997 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hwat < 1326396854 888336 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :q < 1326396856 808640 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :a language for which defining what esolang means would be a waste of time. < 1326396859 12257 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: or, not so much waste of time, but people not thinking it's necessary < 1326396878 168 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :40 chars < 1326396886 120870 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kimit < 1326396900 140194 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: So basically "a language which is hardly used at all, or only used as a joke" or something thereabout? < 1326396900 862006 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A language designed to entertain rather than to be used for any practical task is my definition < 1326396918 498393 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Well, obviously idiosyncrasy relative to the generalised status quo factors into it, as well as novelty and generally not being optimised for /use/ in design -- but the main factor I use is authorial intent, because it's inherently subjective and there are good reasons for going by it. < 1326396920 257276 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if its a language designed for only 1 user? < 1326396928 935771 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :o am drinking water < 1326396934 528764 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think entirely made-for-practical-use languages can be esolangs too, e.g. bancstar < 1326396942 941691 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :battery 14 < 1326396944 149295 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but I declare every language I invent an esolang, regardless of what it's for < 1326396947 10062 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: e.g., Ursula, however weird it is by any metric, is not an esolang, because it was not intended as an esolang, and because it was designed for being used < 1326396949 466686 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, would you consider OIL an esolang? < 1326396951 662312 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :but of course it's a kind of failure for a practical language to get that status < 1326396954 370999 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to me, it's just a DSL < 1326396965 407623 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whats a DSL? < 1326396972 549615 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ursala! < 1326396986 113678 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: (a) Intent isn't quite declaration, and I don't necessarily take declarations I think are unreliable at face value. (b) I know barely nothing about OIL. < 1326396989 888308 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: domain-specific language < 1326396996 985633 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, those could be called "accidental esolangs" perhaps? < 1326397013 209033 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: http://c.intercal.org.uk/manual/dlbvn76f.htm#Optimizer-Idiom-Language < 1326397022 733568 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: But Befunge-98 is, both for reasons of idiosyncrasy (its syntax and very oddball tied-to-syntax control structure), and very clear intent of esoteric nature. < 1326397023 309879 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a language invented for the purpose of implementing INTERCAL optimisers < 1326397031 216115 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's pretty good at that, and really bad at anything else < 1326397033 309700 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even if Befunge-98 is nicer to program in than Ursula. < 1326397042 669495 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :esolangs are languages that make defining what esolang means difficult. < 1326397062 651971 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that's the kind of definition I'd use as well. < 1326397065 686453 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wesay this is equivalent to < 1326397072 116126 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Glancing at it and combining with what I know, I wouldn't say it's an esolang, but I'd say it's clearly intended to be fairly weird. < 1326397080 199747 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and we optimisr to < 1326397116 604100 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has seen some people claim that C is an esolang. < 1326397118 219747 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Another good reason to go by what the author says is that it avoids offending authors of serious languages when you call their work something with the connotations esolang has, and avoids offending authors of esolangs when you dare to suggest their work doesn't meet the criteria :P < 1326397120 369270 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like < 1326397121 378876 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also Haskell. < 1326397134 639875 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :dgffgg %% add < 1326397137 833801 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Heh, yes. < 1326397138 103512 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :People like to say "lolololol is an esolang". < 1326397139 392388 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then < 1326397142 721189 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially Perl, Java, etc. < 1326397145 61226 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that's just noise. < 1326397147 342840 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I first encountered Haskell on this channel < 1326397155 964145 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we transform things to dgffgg < 1326397159 247820 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I might say that "not being optimised for /use/ in design" counts as authorial intent, though. < 1326397162 766571 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1326397168 468797 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :As long as that includes all kinds of use. < 1326397172 774834 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :!languages < 1326397181 400582 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::$ < 1326397183 440333 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Err, < 1326397184 861690 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help languages < 1326397185 463613 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​languages: Esoteric: 1l 2l adjust asm axo bch befunge befunge98 bf bf8 bf16 bf32 boolfuck cintercal clcintercal dimensifuck glass glypho haskell kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain perl qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 underload unlambda whirl. Competitive: bfjoust fyb. Other: asm c cxx forth sh. < 1326397188 40414 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-12-141.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1326397188 322235 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-12-141.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1326397188 479183 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1326397190 669025 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: True, but I meant more direct intent; e.g. putting something on esolangs.org, or obvious presentation of the language as a serious tool on a website. < 1326397191 295127 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so would you say LOLCODE is intended to be an esolang? < 1326397195 286096 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :^^^ Herp durp I call non-esolagns eso too < 1326397196 766463 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :E.g. BANCStar is not an esolang, it's just an ASCII encoding of something that people have evidently unfortunately programmed in. < 1326397202 161219 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't believe its authors had heard of esolangs, otherwise they wouldn't have invented something so banal < 1326397214 520545 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: BANCStar's basically an asm < 1326397218 363166 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just an insane one < 1326397218 519627 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I don't think the inventors of LOLCODE are competent enough to intend one way or another. < 1326397224 82772 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes. < 1326397230 535998 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that's pretty much my argument < 1326397234 148206 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: But I definitely recall the author didn't know of esolangs. < 1326397240 638053 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :for Gregor an esolang is any language that's not C, assembly, C, cxx (???), forth, or sh < 1326397248 938847 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also C < 1326397253 722078 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah: http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Vowels < 1326397255 199300 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOLCODE probably is an esolang based on its sliver of silly syntax, but it's a really bad one. < 1326397255 910586 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would say that LOLCODE is intended as an esolang. < 1326397277 865289 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even if the author(s) didn't know the term or other such languages, it's clearly got a similar intent. < 1326397286 563194 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul ((!)S:^):^ it's the age of minimalism, simplify! < 1326397286 719538 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ...too much output! < 1326397290 784094 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: BANCStar is sort of an honorary esolang, in that it doesn't really count as one, but who the hell else is going to take it under their wing? < 1326397294 298869 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the category of languages that includes Vowels was done better by Sorted! < 1326397301 629552 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which will probably never be beaten in that category < 1326397323 854465 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It's just an assembly language, IMO. < 1326397337 431336 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Yeah, it's more of a community sense in which it counts as one than a language sense :P < 1326397339 620865 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd probably discover that x86 microcode is just as insane < 1326397346 919748 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: It lacks the mnemonics to be an assembly language, though, I think. < 1326397349 107751 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, hmm, it probably differs between manufacturers < 1326397351 205335 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you know what I mean < 1326397354 277639 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :esolangs are languages that are members of the set of esolangs. < 1326397358 965900 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Then you can call it an ASCII-encoded object format. < 1326397365 344277 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :glue language < 1326397372 552109 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol gluethon < 1326397374 553934 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I don't really care all that much whether something is an esolang or not; the main thing it's relevant for is to know how to categorise articles on the wiki. < 1326397409 358445 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Sorted! is bilingual. It can understand both english and german code. To my knowledge, Sorted! is the only programming language that can do this, in the world." <--- someone should mention INTERCAL < 1326397413 193922 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(English/Latin) < 1326397430 138851 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a sumamoito loop is optimised by some add < 1326397432 421630 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: What's EgoBot's '!forth', gforth? < 1326397434 649696 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :If "the wiki" is the esolang wiki, then isn't being on the wiki something that makes it an esolang? :-P Except for joke articles like Perl (which should be categorized as a joke article or equivalent). < 1326397451 564159 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nnested < 1326397472 484642 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unnested < 1326397478 948019 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ununested < 1326397481 797343 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :uunnested < 1326397487 635284 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :uuencoded < 1326397491 299450 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Forth < 1326397497 579 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yeah, gforth. < 1326397516 995013 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: The question of whether only esolangs can be articles has been brought up before; there's consensus that the wiki is for articles of relevant interest to esoteric programmers. < 1326397528 88940 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: That includes oddball things like Joy and whatnot. < 1326397533 153682 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'd have a "category: non-esoteric", then. < 1326397536 533498 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :!forth gforth type < 1326397537 203134 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​\ in file included from *OS command line*:-1 \ /tmp/input.1112:1: Undefined word \ >>>gforth<<< type \ Backtrace: \ $7F2761A86A68 throw \ $7F2761A9CCE0 no.extensions \ $7F2761A86D28 interpreter-notfound1 < 1326397541 414528 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1326397547 70746 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also http://esolangs.org/wiki/Chalcraft-Greene_train_track_automaton. < 1326397554 470645 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Negated categories? Nah. < 1326397561 166392 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: [[Category:Not 1999]] < 1326397564 376038 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont understand how befunge98 could possibly not be esoteric < 1326397578 462408 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Well, "category: esoteric" would be fine as well, just more work to keep up-to-date. :-P < 1326397593 328201 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :And also seemingly redundant with the topic of the site. < 1326397593 596420 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Category:Languages < 1326397605 284228 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be nice to be able ot perform boolan operations on categories in wikis. < 1326397607 280140 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That doesn't say "esoteric languages". < 1326397612 220324 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Forth is a language. < 1326397619 653258 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Yes, but it's only for esolangs, just like Forth was misplaced in [[Category:Before 1993]]. < 1326397632 382881 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Adding "esoteric" to everything would be too many words. :p < 1326397642 795932 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :battry 13 < 1326397655 276797 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :!forth hi < 1326397656 83296 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​\ in file included from *OS command line*:-1 \ /tmp/input.1367:1: Undefined word \ >>>hi<<< \ Backtrace: \ $7FF11B654A68 throw \ $7FF11B66ACE0 no.extensions \ $7FF11B654D28 interpreter-notfound1 < 1326397656 889758 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Put it in the description of that category, then. :-P < 1326397687 574421 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :here is my question for you.. would you pay someone a salary to code in befunge98? < 1326397694 831342 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fsvo you < 1326397697 207576 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd do it but I can't be bothered to make a wiki account just for that, and I don't want to do it anonymously. < 1326397728 762094 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Yeah, if you did it anonymously your vital contribution of "Esoteric" would be lost to the sands of time. < 1326397740 593271 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might even not end up on your tombstone. < 1326397744 376189 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :HERE LIES DEEWIANT < 1326397746 294857 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ESOTERIC" < 1326397754 679287 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i only need bread and water < 1326397764 89096 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Something like that, yes. < 1326397766 761164 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually "ESOTERIC" would be a badass epitaph. < 1326397769 547837 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :!forth : gfv s" gforth" environment? if type then ; gfv < 1326397770 259405 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :0.7.0 < 1326397773 296759 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, right. < 1326397775 889262 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not epitaph. < 1326397777 982981 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it epitaph? < 1326397788 536332 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Anyway, maybe tomorrow. < 1326397793 868986 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There should be more esolang collabs < 1326397803 532058 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :abcdef < 1326397809 743786 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Didn't notice it was an environment-query thing and not a word.) < 1326397814 394136 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :abcdef...g < 1326397847 904715 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: What's happening today? < 1326397877 873508 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the end of the world approaches < 1326397885 301439 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I'm tired. < 1326397886 914152 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rip future world < 1326397889 275742 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And lazy. < 1326397917 55383 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 second per second < 1326397924 420968 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no < 1326397938 576759 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no exit < 1326397944 194201 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1326397955 78863 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quantum language < 1326397958 491603 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :RIP future world ,~ESOTERIC~` < 1326397962 960886 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :roper: hi < 1326397971 4622 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi elliott < 1326397974 696940 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Want to tell me about the bleeding edge when it comes to testing C libraries? Anything QuickCheck-like for C? Is TAP still the harness of choice? < 1326397988 582983 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do we travel through time at 1 second per second?, page 1 http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread551324/pg1 < 1326397991 577459 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :!forth s" gforth" environment? [if] type [then] \ simplify! < 1326397992 287781 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :0.7.0 < 1326398003 287714 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: You're picking me due to my inexperience, right? < 1326398014 456200 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Something like QuickCheck seems ill-suited to C. < 1326398018 438000 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not many C functions are pure. < 1326398022 814577 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuzz testing seems like the closest thing. < 1326398026 825566 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Now it doesn't need to be in a separate dummy word just because if is a compile-only word.) < 1326398044 608290 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Now implement Befunge. < 1326398062 645424 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I have a gforth interpreter (for -93) already, but it won't fit on one line. < 1326398063 48256 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, TAP dates back to 1987. < 1326398071 26649 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yes, that's why you have to do it again. < 1326398072 409379 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also -98. < 1326398077 159711 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Also EgoBot takes URLs.) < 1326398086 659557 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuzz testing is pretty much the same thing. < 1326398088 176006 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It probably has bitrotted away anyway. < 1326398088 712392 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Oh! There's Falderal. :) < 1326398104 280799 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(http://catseye.tc/projects/falderal/) < 1326398107 773397 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also it asks for which file to load. But maybe I could hardcore an interesting Befunge-93 program in. Are there any? < 1326398121 549304 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just wondering about good software for doing it, not just "cat /dev/random | test program". < 1326398153 619298 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Man, be.fs is like the worstest. The 2003 fizzie should be shot. < 1326398174 591985 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: He was cool!!! he used lowercase < 1326398188 569868 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can see that, all the comments in this are in lowercase. < 1326398215 883603 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I bet you're not even *considering* Falderal. :p < 1326398235 569527 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: "doctests for DSLs" isn't really what I'm after. :-P < 1326398257 54722 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Well, you could make it more-or-less work like TAP except slightly awkwarder. :p < 1326398300 428747 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, extra work to do something in an awkwarder way than an alternative... I'm not considering it any more now, at least. < 1326398323 150337 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Has anyone ever told you you're BOERING? < 1326398354 638351 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Hey, you could be my fuzzer. Write me a battery of Funge-Space tests. < 1326398389 391537 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Okay. < 1326398400 204308 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I'm not entirely sure how you would fuzz-test a fungespace. < 1326398422 133608 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Neither am I. < 1326398477 507313 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I'm not entirely sure how you would test a fungespace. I guess you could do read string -> do operations -> check string-rendered result, but... < 1326398497 716410 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: You should prove it correct. < 1326398537 736044 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking along the lines of doing random writes, some of which come as groups forming patterns (so it's not just individual writes all over the place), and pairing each write with a read, which need not come immediately after the write (again random), as long as all writes are paired with a read. (Overlapping writes should discard the previous read somehow, or something.) < 1326398575 258731 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :precise < 1326398613 303624 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Too much structure; I'd do load random string -> do random write operations -> render to string -> check against trivial (slow) ref impl. < 1326398618 896909 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I mean, the rendering part will already test the reading operations. < 1326398625 17727 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also that's easier. < 1326398668 341215 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It needs some structure or it won't catch some things that could be wrong. :-P (And have been wrong, in CCBI's implementation.) < 1326398679 344717 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, so someone should make the funge spec executable < 1326398731 663148 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: What could that miss? I mean, with enough samples... < 1326398736 101553 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: They did. < 1326398739 9050 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: It's called Mycology. < 1326398740 834358 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh < 1326398774 576453 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Well, depends on how you do the randomness. Is it "generate three 32-bit integers and write the third to the coordinates specified by the first two"? :-P < 1326398818 489246 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :can I define to- hardware optimization? < 1326398819 564580 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: That, a few thousand times. Except probably restrict the range so you're likely to hit the pre-initialised data. < 1326398826 276628 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lidten < 1326398830 504846 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose that doesn't test for things like possible overflow, but you could do "edge" tests separately. < 1326398842 268450 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :battery 12 < 1326398859 154978 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I guess one could generate a random offset to load the original data to. < 1326398877 965816 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which could then be biased to be near the edges at least some of the time. < 1326398896 541269 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Man, who even cares, just release the damn thing already. < 1326398900 142327 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :assign a name for each hardware operation < 1326398911 337171 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Statistical models of fungespace write/read behaviour learned from some of the high-profile mission-critical large-scale Befunge programs (the sort of stuff eBay, facebook, Google use), then used to generate streams of operations. < 1326398930 826715 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :assing some or more codes for each name < 1326398934 702129 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: *Facebook < 1326398944 347796 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's only "facebook" in the logotype. < 1326398948 589684 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I confused it with fREenODE, sorry. < 1326398951 431069 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :transform from/to them and other < 1326398952 237995 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :. < 1326398964 723637 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Freen Ode. < 1326398971 899323 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ode to freen < 1326398972 446646 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooooo < 1326398977 439046 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ode to nerf-E. < 1326398992 854151 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :roper: How drunk are you? < 1326398999 379367 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe 0 < 1326399014 170779 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :me too < 1326399015 357772 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: But anyway, the kind of stuff that wouldn't catch is e.g. "write to x, x+8, x+16, and now read x+8" (something similar to this was broken in CCBI once; not this simplest case, I think, but closely similar). < 1326399020 66393 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :On a scale from -10 to 0. < 1326399020 469991 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :battery 10 < 1326399031 581391 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Sure it would; x+8 would be read in the ->string conversion. < 1326399040 582295 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric : ) < 1326399051 503581 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :one day i hope to be negative drunk < 1326399056 825374 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: But that precise sequence of writes? < 1326399060 759871 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: Knurd is the term. < 1326399063 929608 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is acid < 1326399066 521695 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Well, it's fuzz testing. < 1326399073 772164 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: There's no intelligent design. < 1326399095 796738 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Anyway, just work on sufficiently small fungespaces that you can exhaust a lot of the searchspaces? e.g. Doing something over 2^32 coordinates is easy. < 1326399095 953368 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pur one, elliot < 1326399120 814767 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :battery 9a < 1326399153 505026 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a %% almost-from-top < 1326399182 129353 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"optomized" < 1326399183 89058 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I suppose I can resign and leave the possibility that a lot of special cases will be broken at release. :-P < 1326399196 395298 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1326399222 77172 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be interesting to implement a fungespace on something that's far more parallel than a traditional CPU < 1326399226 173478 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :like a GPU perhaps? < 1326399266 575046 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That wouldn't really be interesting. < 1326399273 606572 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't really access them concurrently. < 1326399309 454856 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, right. < 1326399312 982460 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you could. < 1326399322 237657 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except with ATHR, I guess. < 1326399342 778826 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :("in ATHR": the new "in Feather"?) < 1326399399 271536 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1326399424 84530 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: It has the sibling "in NSCK" for anything networking-related. < 1326399441 590418 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :battery 8a < 1326399466 974372 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I'll have to remember that one. < 1326399498 35732 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :roper: maybe you should charge < 1326399504 368187 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :; optomize your battery% < 1326399510 997630 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is a WA game style doing here? < 1326399511 304677 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I wont until off < 1326399516 983891 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1326399518 613094 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then it will off < 1326399524 886055 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1326399529 668495 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and me sleep < 1326399544 332840 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about all the poor datas < 1326399545 177420 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Ropers date back to Worms 2, you uncultured plebeian. < 1326399563 426232 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope they will stay < 1326399573 151488 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION installs Hedgewars due to not having his WA.iso handy < 1326399595 883699 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is an android < 1326399609 687167 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anananandroid < 1326399610 896202 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: It's like how fungot will do IPv6, server names instead of just IP, and HTTP requests "in NSCK". (Never mind most of those aren't actually NSCK-dependant at all, except the IPv6 thing.) < 1326399611 708906 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: i fully endorse the proposal for a new com in the fruit and vegetable sector is the one area where europe can play an important role to play in relation to the content of his speech. will the commissioner hold new talks with the sudanese government. i hope that before they join. it is against that background it is totally disgraceful to claim that the court has given updated information on its application. < 1326399620 153114 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1326399648 313422 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1326399659 316237 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: You should make a BABL to accelerate babble-generation. < 1326399666 66580 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bonus: Tower of Babel allusion. < 1326399673 54897 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mikmod < 1326399698 659866 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The module player library? < 1326399771 195946 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1326399776 471121 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1326399792 591429 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: How about benchmarks, what's "criterion for C"? < 1326399795 447286 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to recall that some MikMod's XM effects were a bit dubiously implemented. < 1326399795 603385 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume hedgewars uses modules for music < 1326399809 858732 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: You know the great thing about Haskell? < 1326399815 658838 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: All those wonderful tools you don't get with C. < 1326399838 324189 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And vice versa.) < 1326399847 14163 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a bit shaky < 1326399851 820349 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The music) < 1326399863 435732 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: How retro. Also fmod would have more street cred. (And a worse license.) < 1326399886 237655 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think fmod is by scenesters. < 1326399891 663771 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Anyway, just write your own thing or whatever. < 1326399906 442570 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think C people "outsource" such "trivial" things. < 1326399913 109893 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Firk ding blast. < 1326399923 840925 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :They seem far more businessy than what they did. < 1326399940 3699 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326399943 717412 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's true that C programmers tend to be far too NIH-y. < 1326399968 76398 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, they've got that minifmod thing that does XM playback in 5k, they must have *some* intro background. < 1326399970 529880 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Well, the language kind of forces you to. < 1326399981 148906 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: There's not really much in the way of abstraction. :p < 1326400015 344427 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't force you to, it just makes it a bit tricky to not. < 1326400081 150565 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Well, you have to resort to cpp for anything beyond the most basic abstraction. < 1326400091 611387 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Which gives you all the abstractional power of raw text substitution. < 1326400098 157763 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :But oh well, I guess NIH + ministat is the way to go. < 1326400171 121731 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's ministat? < 1326400176 690248 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/codemac/ministat < 1326400197 321794 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: So cheating. < 1326400203 429217 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :entanglement < 1326400205 761014 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Got a better idea? < 1326400211 824043 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Write yer own!!!! < 1326400220 802652 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Be sure to replicate it feature-for-feature. < 1326400254 291788 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Confidence intervals are like so bourgeoisie. (And frequentist!) < 1326400283 358549 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries to figure out why GArrow doesn't include ga_swap. < 1326400422 428440 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :always had to code it < 1326400443 105287 :MSleep!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326400452 615561 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Bourgeoisie Funge-98 software since 2007. < 1326400529 36636 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1326400584 415547 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: You know what they say, can't spell Funge-98 without Bayes' theorem. < 1326400589 290707 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you're DEEWIANT. < 1326400626 515691 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, shouldn't that be that you /can/ spell it without it unless you're Deewiant? < 1326400650 876442 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :No; being a frequentist, you obviously somehow spell it without. < 1326400780 759077 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What fizzie said. < 1326400792 627550 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is a PERVERSE ABOMINATION. < 1326400798 342377 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :PERVBOMINATION. < 1326400876 419746 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I don't think I can come up with a prior for the speed of my Funge-Space. < 1326400884 882999 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :when do you expect we talk in binary? < 1326400890 512636 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : R'lyeh standard time. I wonder what that would be like <-- enough time for death to die < 1326400898 800389 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :will+ < 1326400913 127005 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Then you will use an uninformative prior. < 1326400921 884443 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :2013? < 1326401028 42642 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1326401096 101565 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326401102 177350 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pull and wait < 1326401133 431171 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :push and wait < 1326401141 649403 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pull push < 1326401145 283432 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :01 < 1326401247 25242 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :0110 < 1326401296 936184 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :01%%10 < 1326401320 486643 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :0+0%%00 < 1326401327 558647 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1326401337 496828 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1+1%%11 < 1326401338 437402 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: "So fast". < 1326401398 769675 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so pppqqq%%010101 < 1326401440 197652 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Shush, I want to observe this in peace. < 1326401473 92109 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :%% means interchangeable < 1326401494 660122 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: What, roper or your funge-space? < 1326401504 393609 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ means concatenation < 1326401505 918774 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1326401506 765059 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: roper. < 1326401521 772708 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1326401534 416190 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that is almost all < 1326401550 237467 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ask anything < 1326401581 576972 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :battery 7a < 1326401624 249990 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that may serve for optimisation < 1326401629 598552 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :replace < 1326401654 9338 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :from ffaster to slower or viceversa < 1326401691 532673 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :may need to go slower before faster < 1326401707 582815 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the chain < 1326401737 52427 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it may inviolve mathnythinfg < 1326401747 749819 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1326401773 291225 :MSleep!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net NICK :MDude < 1326401785 822050 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no TOPIC #esoteric :I'm not a number, I'm a free cheese grater | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1326401907 244359 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :double+doube%%quad < 1326401918 444938 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :l < 1326401933 517388 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quadruplicate < 1326402045 617521 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :inc a + inc a + dec a %% inc a < 1326402059 161840 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :system() should be called shell() because that's what it does. < 1326402061 964035 :Patashu!Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1326402129 433983 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: What, in C? < 1326402143 249650 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep. < 1326402156 866508 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: No it doesn't. < 1326402164 104942 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: You're a terrible DS9K thinker. < 1326402182 249489 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: It should be called commandprocessor(). < 1326402200 224469 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"shell" is the max-6-letter equivalent of "commandprocessor". < 1326402228 371047 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :But these are the days of max-31-letter names. < 1326402231 243634 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: system() just does something completely unspecified, so "system" seems like a good name for it. < 1326402235 380069 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It calls out to the system, somehow. < 1326402243 712507 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It passes the string to a command processor. < 1326402258 883492 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that defined? < 1326402260 630063 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"system" makes me think of system calls. < 1326402265 25011 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is how it's defined. < 1326402276 984159 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fair enough. < 1326402288 862889 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"the system function passes the string pointed to by string to that command processor to be executed in a manner which the implementation shall document". < 1326402291 568740 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :If string is not a null pointer, the system function passes the string pointed to by string to that command processor to be < 1326402294 743094 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :executed in a manner which the implementation shall document; this might then cause the < 1326402298 336731 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :program calling system to behave in a non-conforming manner or to terminate. < 1326402304 706388 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the warning. < 1326402313 635535 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :battery 6a < 1326402332 998024 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also I wonder how many times system(NULL) has been used. < 1326402347 265172 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unaccidentally, anyway. < 1326402385 547372 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :When my C compiler starts needing a library, I'll make sure that that library's system() calls abort() if system(NULL) hasn't been called first. < 1326402478 441753 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Will you also give system(NULL) a 10% chance to return 0 just to test that the programs are robust in handling the "no command processor" case? < 1326402482 966304 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :battery 5a < 1326402532 58720 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Nah; I trust that if they check it, they do so properly. :-P < 1326402546 552158 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :battery 4a < 1326402779 325297 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :battery 3a < 1326402814 283991 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :battery 2a < 1326402920 854229 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :battery 1a < 1326403052 586028 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the DeathStar 9000, system() of course blows up a star system. < 1326403056 628471 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :batterya < 1326403127 146509 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rip < 1326403135 589255 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :almost < 1326403142 629375 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1% < 1326403288 729530 :roper!~rdrp@95.169.240.86 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1326403303 343214 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't tell whether he's avant-garde or just stupid. < 1326403305 93770 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thus ends roper. < 1326403321 472245 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The ropening: a saga for the ages. < 1326403349 974027 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe he was a robot slowly deteriorating as he runs out of power, a million miles from Earth. < 1326403352 972288 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only IRC to keep him company. < 1326403391 737954 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`frink 1000000 miles -> c s < 1326403404 157313 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :804672000/149896229 (approx. 5.368193752225748) < 1326403420 388981 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess we've had worse lag than that < 1326403573 511001 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :his ip hinted spain < 1326403601 691668 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :His server hinted USA < 1326403614 257239 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1326403632 607274 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe he was in the Spanish Embassy in New York? < 1326403634 246820 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see >.> < 1326403640 385206 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :im not good at irc < 1326403672 21973 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: His IP is the more relevant info, you can obviously connect to any server you want. :-P < 1326403673 174182 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: um servers are frequently assigned randomly? < 1326403695 358656 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326403704 614526 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : bijective function. < 1326403705 553810 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I guess they are, if you just connect to irc.freenode.net or whatever. < 1326403722 202765 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :BtW, this is never what 'isomorphic' means. < 1326403726 428232 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :atrapado also suggests spanish < 1326403730 676130 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :But why would you not connect to irc.eu.freenode.net or some such continentally appropriate name. < 1326403759 330767 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :An isomorphism is a bijection which also preserves structure in some way, at least in all the examples I've seen. < 1326403764 548860 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:01:34: I'm pretty sure infinite-length strings are uncountable < 1326403768 3856 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, chat.eu.freenode.net. < 1326403774 632384 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just connect to the specific server I want and then when irssi auto-reconnects it goes to some random place if that server's down, I think. < 1326403778 69698 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: except in the category of Set, you uncouth illiterate < 1326403786 665469 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: define "preserves structure" < 1326403793 180310 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: *illiterate fuck is standard terminology tyvm. < 1326403798 369367 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Yes, it converts 32 random bits into an IPv4 address and goes there. < 1326403802 528923 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, who the hell uses isomorphisms in Set. < 1326403813 278727 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: That's what it seems like. < 1326403817 893474 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i was a bit confused after what i saw in the log, was it uncouth plebeian? < 1326403818 296966 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, it varies. < 1326403835 247335 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION only looked at some of the logs today < 1326403837 853627 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: That is also acceptable when you want to SHAKE THINGS UP A BIT and can't quite bring yourself to swear at Ngevd. < 1326403840 122437 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :For groups, it means that f(x*y) = f(x)*f(y). < 1326403852 852958 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to have lindbohm.freenode.net and chat.eu.freenode.net listed. < 1326403861 411994 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: You've been accused of espionage in the logs. HTH. < 1326403862 17088 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Illiterate DARN. < 1326403865 484973 :NihilistDandy!~NihilistD@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326403874 167612 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I guess if the recipient is illiterate it doesn't matter what words you use. < 1326403921 18861 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :For graphs, it means that edges and nodes stay attached. < 1326403929 157878 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : But why would you not connect to irc.eu.freenode.net or some such continentally appropriate name. <-- erm irc.freenode.net is in the irssi default list (and still what i connect to if my main norwegian server doesn't work) < 1326403939 961060 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ah okay. < 1326403948 762824 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :C'moon. C'mon SO. Two upvotes in two and a half hours. < 1326403949 608634 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: But you might end up in the Americas! They might shoot you! < 1326403950 761990 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can do it for me. < 1326403956 933966 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let me breach 6,800 today. < 1326403978 249174 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(They shoot people there.) < 1326403982 221063 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :half < 1326403987 195035 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops. < 1326403987 771642 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:01:34: I'm pretty sure infinite-length strings are uncountable < 1326403991 710482 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, they are. < 1326403994 728535 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, they shoot them IN HALF. < 1326404014 938281 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I saw a MythBusters show about that. (Or I guess it maybe was a tree.) < 1326404021 847388 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote I saw a MythBusters show about that. (Or I guess it maybe was a tree.) < 1326404024 572781 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you shoot them in half, they stay infinite. < 1326404025 821130 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :802) I saw a MythBusters show about that. (Or I guess it maybe was a tree.) < 1326404052 316554 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Have you seen our perfect quotes: < 1326404054 106427 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 800 < 1326404054 857430 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 801 < 1326404057 141315 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :800) ioihgfdddf < 1326404078 755595 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The mysterious quote 801. < 1326404085 20312 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 801 < 1326404089 231809 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :801) rephtrase < 1326404119 42446 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : oerjan: You've been accused of espionage in the logs. HTH. <-- i saw that. didn't quite understand. i mean, how you could you possibly suspect innocent little _me_? also, don't touch that big red button. < 1326404131 875733 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :801) rephtrase < 1326404134 125728 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/ktat < 1326404143 86891 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohmy;'god < 1326404164 103994 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, you didn't tell us KT-AT could Perl. < 1326404176 808531 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait a goddamn goddamn second < 1326404180 609007 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: That's only one program. < 1326404183 424038 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :She has to learn all the other programs. < 1326404185 344624 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or was that another one. < 1326404186 461780 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are pi and e co-transcendental? < 1326404191 10531 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was Idiot Girl. < 1326404195 981144 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, co-transcendental? < 1326404199 109733 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: The politest name. < 1326404208 303953 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Your careless un-Torred logged-in Wiki edits have revealed you. < 1326404217 205007 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The categorical dual of transcendental? < 1326404219 392430 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, define this. < 1326404224 644686 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: As opposed to Torred logged-in wiki edits. < 1326404229 672170 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those would have been so fucking safe. < 1326404258 798962 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, a is not expressible in algebraic terms of b < 1326404287 49002 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ONION ROUTING. < 1326404291 855560 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You mean a /= kb, k \in A? < 1326404299 62776 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : Are pi and e co-transcendental? <-- famous unsolved problem. e.g. it's unknown whether either of pi+e and pi*e are rational, although at least one must be transcendental and both are suspected to be < 1326404300 405075 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where A are algebraics. < 1326404314 892315 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: He just stepped on a security rake and got a face full of fucking safety, etc. < 1326404328 54883 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The onions are the rake.) < 1326404373 772856 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(diff) (hist) . . N User:Asd4628182‎; 21:36 . . (+3) . . Asd462818 (Talk | contribs) (New page: asd) < 1326404374 176178 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(diff) (hist) . . N User:Asd462818‎; 21:31 . . (+3) . . Asd462818 (Talk | contribs) (New page: asd) < 1326404377 36237 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SPAMBOTS. YOU'RE NOT EVEN TRYING ANY MORE. < 1326404403 818968 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan understands me < 1326404413 915335 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn you oerjan. < 1326404420 159571 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, will you be my friend? < 1326404428 856765 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You will find that when it comes to camping, you dont just want to sleep in an tent, but you will want to get a commercial RV and use the commercial campgrounds as an alternative camping experience. < 1326404429 971428 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1326404436 633797 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: i assume he means whether pi / e is in the algebraic closed field generated by the other (equivalently i think, whether there's a nontrivial rational polynomial p(x,y) such that p(pi,e) = 0) < 1326404446 449966 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :[...] < 1326404448 988391 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You may need to go traditionally camping because of the money, however, you will want to think about modern ways of camping. fuck tonight locally < 1326404452 657002 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, < 1326404457 685145 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*pi and e < 1326404463 193301 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no division implied < 1326404475 679157 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erla64ys418a "a good spambot" < 1326404515 161175 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: so more like prime : coprime :: transcendental : cotranscendental < 1326404521 550018 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: fuck tonight locally < 1326404539 781741 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a link too < 1326404571 260797 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"What’s the Trick to Fucking Local Horny Locals Tonight?" < 1326404576 9410 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :modern ways of camping < 1326404594 743021 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're not just local, they're fucking local. < 1326404603 721678 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, these locals are local as *shit*. < 1326404632 596063 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Edinburgh, city where shit is fucking local < 1326404646 441649 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: They're so fucking local that they're referred to as "local" TWICE in the same question! < 1326404679 150398 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't deal with all this locality. < 1326404682 728786 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going camping. < 1326404691 506470 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You will find that when it comes to camping, you dont just want to sleep in an tent, but you will want to get a commercial RV and use the commercial campgrounds as an alternative camping experience. < 1326404755 239757 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i also like the userpages of the asd bots < 1326404759 884110 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :theyre very good < 1326404764 299178 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :just get a sleeping bag and a room at the alta ice hotel < 1326404790 875215 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Also known as a "Norwegian holiday". < 1326404810 356625 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(no i haven't tried that. do i _look_ insane? oh right. well, i still haven't.) < 1326404968 297370 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or the Kiruna "ICEHOTEL" if you want the "Swedish holiday". < 1326404972 178673 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: you can be my slightly less often beaten minion, if you like. < 1326404980 796904 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1326404988 594806 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.itravelguide.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/ice-hotel-jukkasjarvi-church.jpg <- the hotel. < 1326404993 307930 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Okay, so it's just their church.) < 1326405033 460218 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: omg :DD < 1326405035 110730 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also a snow hotel in Finland. < 1326405042 50135 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: wait, are you saying finland... ok. < 1326405043 306875 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's less translucent. :/ < 1326405055 224681 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.snowcastle.net/en/ < 1326405081 845132 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :They do weddings and that sort of thing, much what you'd expect. < 1326405090 489793 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think mooz might've stayed there? < 1326405128 391317 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :They do have some ice in it, but judging from the photos not quite as much as at the ICEHOTEL. < 1326405217 378408 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :We're going to go through Kiruna (twice, actually, since we need to get back too) around Easter, but skipped the ICE. I'm not sure how long it's open, anyway. < 1326405302 584579 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they put it in a storage hall during the summer and keep it open in a sort of reduced mode. < 1326405309 131176 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is pretty pointless. < 1326405330 1072 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently summer tourists have been so disappointed for not being able to go to the ice hotel. < 1326405411 316151 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_hotel says it's just ice that is stored, not the previous hotel < 1326405419 276007 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: so sets do not have isomorphisms? < 1326405426 1748 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or are set isomorphisms just bijective functions? < 1326405434 741810 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: http://www.icehotel.com/uk/ICEHOTEL/Stay-at-ICEHOTEL/The-ice-factory/ "For the first time in history you can experience the sensation of ICEHOTEL even during summer. The world’s first and largest hotel built of snow and ice, will have a little sister in the summer of 2012. On the 8th of June a smaller version of the hotel opens; 120 square meters and will hold three art suites, an ICEBAR by ICEHOTEL and place for guests to try ice sculpting." < 1326405454 513599 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, they're just bijections, so nobody calls them isomorphisms. < 1326405478 995365 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Sleep well in -5 °C" < 1326405480 204518 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeees. < 1326405497 163141 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ah. < 1326405501 174930 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"What is ICEHOTEL? A hotel built of ice and snow, would be the most common response. The first and the largest in the world, someone might add. But we have more thrilling stories to tell. Lean closer to your computer screen and we'll whisper them in your ear." < 1326405507 375968 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: would it be technically incorrect to say so? aside from being laughed at? < 1326405555 303996 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, finite strings aren't the same as sets. < 1326405556 918669 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: So are the beds made out of ice in ICEHOTEL? < 1326405561 509781 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's an implied structure there. < 1326405562 756930 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yews. < 1326405565 308136 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*yes < 1326405571 816780 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: yes but a set of finite strings is a -- oh I see :P < 1326405597 257638 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Wait, really? < 1326405610 50780 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, they have insulation on top. < 1326405616 499080 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: "The bed you'll sleep on is made of blocks of ice, a wooden base and a mattress covered with reindeer skin." < 1326405663 818339 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it bad that I don't see the paradox in the Banach-Tarski Paradox? < 1326405663 974612 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: The reindeer skin is frozen, right? < 1326405664 834905 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes, it's made of ice. < 1326405673 393807 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: bijections are the isomorphisms of the category Set. just because no one bothers to use the term when speaking solely about sets doesn't mean it's not true. < 1326405678 871612 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: What, do your folk usually take a sphere apart and reassemble it into two spheres of the same size? < 1326405692 55035 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"paradox" is pretty much a meaningless word these days. < 1326405697 825960 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, nah, we don't have enough spheres < 1326405715 296312 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Its meaning seems to be approximately along the lines of "whoa, man". < 1326405724 350845 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Yes, those modern Banach-Tarskiers totally ruined everything. < 1326405726 4504 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it's just Hilbert's Hotel all over again < 1326405727 573875 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember the day when... < 1326405735 474075 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: Not... really. < 1326405738 997851 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Well, it's been that way for a while. < 1326405749 293791 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hilbret's hotel? Huh? < 1326405767 735384 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Is it bad that I don't see the paradox in the Banach-Tarski Paradox? < 1326405779 895495 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really, it just means you understand what it actually means. < 1326405799 316902 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I somewhat doubt that? < 1326405804 524382 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have the feeling Ngevd doesn't understand what it actually means, going by what it just said. < 1326405806 1095 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why? < 1326405812 911449 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aaah stop making me delete what I'm writing then making me realise that I didn't need to delete it < 1326405831 64786 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Well, people who understand Banach-Tarski don't generally say things like "Is it bad that I don't see the paradox in the Banach-Tarski Paradox?". < 1326405838 317907 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Or compare it to Hilbert's hotel. < 1326405853 881486 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My actual working definition of "paradox" is "an apparent contradiction". < 1326405861 211046 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which covers a lot, you must admit. < 1326405869 254145 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: "A stronger form of the theorem implies that given any two "reasonable" solid objects (such as a small ball and a huge ball) — solid in the sense of the continuum — either one can be reassembled into the other. This is often stated colloquially as "a pea can be chopped up and reassembled into the Sun"." -- maybe this seems more appropriately paradoxical to you. < 1326405892 35825 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, only when thinking about physics < 1326405904 603050 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And even then not strictly paradoxical < 1326405912 553787 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Well, Hilbert's Hotel can be rearranged to, like, fit Hilbert's SUPERhotel. < 1326405935 208585 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, it's more complex than just Hilbert's hotel; for one thing, it relies on the axiom of choice. < 1326405936 8372 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: I don't see why you think things become less paradoxical-sounding when you detach them from "physics". < 1326405940 565881 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's still geometry. < 1326405956 654145 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, only finite subdivisions of the pea and the sun < 1326405960 838154 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is not a fan of geometry. < 1326405980 999678 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :As opposed to the hypothetically infinite subdivisions of the magic maths ball < 1326405981 536378 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, it's only tangentially geometry, really. < 1326405982 207078 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: don't be such a square! < 1326405992 288960 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the non-measurable weirdness going on with the pieces. < 1326405993 586469 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The meat of the proof is actually some neat group and set theory. < 1326405994 432218 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :They've got some specifically warm sleeping bags, or some-such. < 1326405995 723619 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Argh. < 1326406000 850057 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I deleted the wrong part of that line. < 1326406011 853298 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :From what I've heard it's still a bit chilly, at least in the Finnish snowcastle. < 1326406021 499132 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I think the rub is that Ngevd probably wouldn't consider it any differently if the pieces /weren't/ all weird and non-measurable. < 1326406030 139574 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also having a wedding there is probably a recipe for a bit... frozen performance on your wedding night, maybe? < 1326406038 149999 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : As opposed to the hypothetically infinite subdivisions of the magic maths ball < 1326406044 92569 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think this explains everything, really : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFvokQUHh08 < 1326406044 248746 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least he seems to be saying essentially "it's abstract so anything goes". Also it is maybe IMPOLITE to talk about him in the third person like this. < 1326406046 92268 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This does kind of imply that he gets that much. < 1326406052 649740 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes this occurred. < 1326406064 416710 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/ :/:/ # grr < 1326406075 348560 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm used to it, carry on talking about me behind my back in front of my back < 1326406091 532595 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That Ngevd guy sucks. < 1326406102 836224 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: what < 1326406106 1757 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ... < 1326406117 490823 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also I need sleep, tomorrow is an important day for me. A day I do not want to be sleepy on < 1326406119 678207 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goodnight < 1326406121 174119 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Quit: Goodbye < 1326406128 776527 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's getting married. < 1326406138 428907 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I thought it was just a very mellow ragepat. < 1326406146 234575 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :He is going to try to execute the Banach-Tarski paradox in real life. < 1326406154 799271 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You need to be very deft with a scalpel. < 1326406155 510207 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: With himself. < 1326406161 232209 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then marry his clone. < 1326406165 526364 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very deft. < 1326406166 237292 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: he'll fail, but then try again on Dec 21. < 1326406169 586868 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :good video < 1326406217 949253 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :good song < 1326406237 146612 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :banach-tarski < 1326406346 402770 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This university should probably do something about its orange problem. < 1326406350 549439 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :En samling af de bedste film der har medvirket i Matematik Revyen. < 1326406380 719538 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`words --danish 20 < 1326406386 616973 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknown option: danish < 1326406389 245387 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aw. < 1326406397 344937 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ONE UPVOTE SO < 1326406398 822571 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ONE UPVOTE < 1326406404 898423 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also poor Denmark, I don't think they've got an ice hotel at all. < 1326406432 12775 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: How would you like a shiny point of IRC karma? < 1326406432 280875 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :`words --norwegian 20 < 1326406436 587154 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :lyderokolen pluminsiprobi kunstrømskate råde lantrassamenestilpa kavdelekand demotteriktenestpappe hallgasilkjordigst countraks artnerntor dovenestyrkivproduksst vittningen spektor kasjonensambasjon notektbifagaarken bilene bandringer mumsgud sykejenevningen konterstyrret < 1326406453 700073 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Close enough! < 1326406465 858061 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`words --finnish 20 < 1326406467 644786 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ^^ Is it, really. > 1326408685 944653 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326408686 83932 :glogbot!codu@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1326408688 802256 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric > 1326408690 595420 JOIN :#esoteric > 1326408691 112752 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326408692 668401 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1326408794 249549 :Gregor!codu@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1326408803 415640 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey PRIVMSG #esoteric :codu.org spam < 1326408822 136474 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you even get away with that Gregor < 1326408897 318354 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lies. < 1326408899 339057 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Filthy lies. < 1326408971 863911 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey PRIVMSG #esoteric :"hi, i need a whatever-line extension so i can connect my bots that aren't part of any botnet" < 1326409003 570543 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :BotNETs are typically, y'know, botNETs. < 1326409013 174668 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey PRIVMSG #esoteric :Microsoft Visual Bot.NET < 1326409041 738791 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyhow i'm listening to music that AnMaster/Vorpal would hate < 1326409045 103679 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey PRIVMSG #esoteric :(C64 music :D) < 1326409062 769888 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, do you like chiptune stuff at all? < 1326409596 818586 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :awwwww yeah chiptune < 1326409622 841264 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my music sucks ass... i basically just used a midi composer and placed some random notes < 1326409685 140023 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm at least pretending to work on a sega master system music driver < 1326409702 38826 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1326409707 318160 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wanna know what i was doing? < 1326409728 704812 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :telling my mom about this jackie chan biography i have been reading while making a cup of coffee >.< < 1326409765 986410 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey PRIVMSG #esoteric :multitasking < 1326410782 220186 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's ok as long as you don't leave coffee stains < 1326410813 782779 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: pixelsize=12 didn't (on the top row, anyway), now I already turned that thing off. < 1326410816 373420 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love retro gaming anyway < 1326410831 751677 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its the best thing < 1326410841 332417 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it reminds us that modern gaming aint so great < 1326410873 758797 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and.. reminds us about the joys of haptic feedback before touchscreens became so popular < 1326410941 308384 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the joys of indexed image palettes < 1326410982 684462 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's that one pretty webpage doing palette-rotation animations with canvas. < 1326410988 423374 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the joys of box shaped image restoration filters < 1326411071 224963 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and video game magazines .. im sure they'll never be the same < 1326411143 583813 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.effectgames.com/demos/canvascycle/?sound=0 in case someone's managed to miss it; though in Internet time it's SO OLD. < 1326411184 749512 :rdrp!~rdrp@46.6.98.23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326411189 156675 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa < 1326411199 716183 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not what i expected < 1326411213 193342 :rdrp!~rdrp@46.6.98.23 PRIVMSG #esoteric :battery 73a < 1326411228 742507 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i should say and the joys of pixel art.. too < 1326411253 853729 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is badass < 1326411433 213372 :rdrp!~rdrp@46.6.98.23 QUIT :Client Quit < 1326411480 235795 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-222-183.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1326411480 674945 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-194-183.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326411509 802210 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The pictures are drawn by a guy who's done backgrounds for Loom and Secret of Monkey Island. < 1326411526 100608 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah... he is that kind of scum < 1326411588 671112 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i looked at super mario in a nes emulator once and saw a palette cycle on a golden colour... used on coins and question blocks < 1326412020 532151 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pardon the pun < 1326412448 971031 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6 < 1326412459 16444 :cheater!~cheater@dslb-084-057-001-153.pools.arcor-ip.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326412900 171374 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-161-147-186.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1326413003 829392 :Guest50440!~Klisz@c-67-161-147-186.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326413146 244186 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastelogs < 1326413149 509584 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastelog < 1326413168 96703 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log >.*palindromes < 1326413177 192757 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.9465 < 1326413202 854351 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1326413217 851943 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log \>.*palindromes.*iterate < 1326413239 50345 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.15923 < 1326413246 627432 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2012-01-13.txt:00:06:57: `log \>.*palindromes.*iterate < 1326413336 678164 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palindromic_number < 1326413341 525955 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :every number is a palindromic number... < 1326413357 815049 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :there exists at least one base in which that number is a palindrome. < 1326413388 383527 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, infinitely many < 1326413441 311339 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :for any number n, all bases m > n? < 1326413457 327051 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :e < 1326413460 16510 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1326413491 918361 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mistyped the empty string and then fumbled a bit but now i'm ok < 1326413517 112072 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also m=n-1, it seems < 1326413525 143481 :NihilistDandy!~NihilistD@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com < 1326413530 575407 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strictly_non-palindromic_number < 1326413618 369320 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :a < 1326413623 58138 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oopses mistyped empty string < 1326413629 49033 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant to say: < 1326414067 533540 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: m = n-2 as well, for most bases I think < 1326414098 483524 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1326414099 123358 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :um no, that's 12 < 1326414110 821490 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh rite < 1326414117 758263 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not a palindrome ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha < 1326414118 161086 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha < 1326414124 443394 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ha < 1326414124 582543 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha. ha. ha ha. ha ha ha. ha ha ha ha ha. ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ...too much output! < 1326414128 390207 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326414148 639194 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in my opinion bash has the best support for infinite data structures. < 1326414162 618851 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i...c < 1326414193 651820 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1326414200 380613 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe the human mind is an infinite data structure. < 1326414205 13274 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1326414228 235719 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the human body is like a cellular automata of infinite structures. < 1326414246 693629 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :an < 1326414249 859374 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :infinite matrix of solidity < 1326414255 861110 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1326414315 461735 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if our minds are like operating systems, does that mean our operating system has a really shitty memory addressing scheme? < 1326414333 525035 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :how many cores does it have? < 1326414341 693373 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::> < 1326414348 179583 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mysterys of life < 1326414765 915130 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :a few billion cores < 1326414889 276078 :Guest50440!~Klisz@c-67-161-147-186.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: SLEEP, GLORIOUS SLEEP > 1326416246 807325 JOIN :#esoteric > 1326416251 428842 JOIN :#esoteric > 1326416251 936525 JOIN :#esoteric > 1326416310 689760 JOIN :#esoteric > 1326416315 316186 JOIN :#esoteric > 1326416315 831639 JOIN :#esoteric > 1326416351 582217 JOIN :#esoteric > 1326416356 204236 JOIN :#esoteric > 1326416356 719659 JOIN :#esoteric > 1326416382 646136 JOIN :#esoteric > 1326416387 285843 JOIN :#esoteric > 1326416387 801922 JOIN :#esoteric > 1326416426 139754 JOIN :#esoteric > 1326416430 781690 JOIN :#esoteric > 1326416431 299458 JOIN :#esoteric > 1326416466 144662 JOIN :#esoteric > 1326416470 785012 JOIN :#esoteric > 1326416471 300841 JOIN :#esoteric > 1326416503 809294 JOIN :#esoteric > 1326416508 452347 JOIN :#esoteric > 1326416508 967757 JOIN :#esoteric > 1326416549 634489 JOIN :#esoteric > 1326416554 249458 JOIN :#esoteric > 1326416554 765126 JOIN :#esoteric > 1326416589 644993 JOIN :#esoteric > 1326416594 282415 JOIN :#esoteric > 1326416594 797873 JOIN :#esoteric > 1326416624 663422 JOIN :#esoteric > 1326416629 305356 JOIN :#esoteric > 1326416629 820977 JOIN :#esoteric > 1326416668 646413 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326416668 891812 :glogbot!codu@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1326416668 893847 :kornbluth.freenode.net NOTICE #esoteric :[freenode-info] channel flooding and no channel staff around to help? Please check with freenode support: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#gettinghelp > 1326416673 286306 JOIN :#esoteric > 1326416673 801633 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326419674 36116 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326419688 30632 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Max SendQ exceeded < 1326419716 216635 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326421199 969094 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src iterate < 1326421200 130908 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :iterate f x = x : iterate f (f x) < 1326421348 787736 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no TOPIC #esoteric :I'm not a number, I'm a cheesy and grating topic | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1326422024 734999 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src (.) < 1326422024 933370 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(f . g) x = f (g x) < 1326422024 933565 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :NB: In lambdabot, (.) = fmap < 1326422113 696087 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src (++) < 1326422114 166440 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :[] ++ ys = ys < 1326422114 328284 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(x:xs) ++ ys = x : (xs ++ ys) < 1326422114 328474 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- OR < 1326422114 328595 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :xs ++ ys = foldr (:) ys xs < 1326422121 80480 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src flip < 1326422121 496896 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :flip f x y = f y x < 1326422131 50867 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :some NB's lacking < 1326422199 898738 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t flip < 1326422200 853975 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (f :: * -> *) a b. (Functor f) => f (a -> b) -> a -> f b < 1326422707 771491 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :More like Nofunctor! < 1326423421 953247 :cswords!~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326424728 415344 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, there was an update < 1326424735 201325 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see. < 1326424755 584967 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no TOPIC #esoteric :I'm not a number, I'm a cheesy and grating update | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1326426547 651602 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src (>=>) < 1326426547 853390 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source not found. You speak an infinite deal of nothing < 1326426574 398496 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src >=> < 1326426574 806701 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source not found. BOB says: You seem to have forgotten your passwd, enter another! < 1326426598 559869 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's probably (f >=> g) x = f x >>= g , anyway < 1326427144 472345 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA < 1326427161 914839 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that fills up the entire width of my terminal < 1326427185 879765 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that leaves one char at the end of mine < 1326427200 457228 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah so you too do not maximize < 1326427205 344753 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :we are non-maximize buddies then < 1326427270 189756 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :would it be accurate to say that... < 1326427284 179454 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :=<< and <=< are analogous to $ and . ? < 1326427315 376828 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :a bit. < 1326427335 820636 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :although =<< needs to fight with <*> / ap for that. < 1326427343 885602 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1326427351 271390 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :<*> is a different kind of application. :P < 1326427374 398225 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :. is generalized in Control.Category, and Kleisli is one based on <=< < 1326427374 611776 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like application lifted into another type. < 1326427400 465681 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ should be generalized somehow. < 1326427405 981078 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :......er < 1326427410 449497 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that's ap < 1326427447 918922 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fmap is another < 1326427464 506022 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :which lambdabot uses for . < 1326427493 514470 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're completely clusterfucking my analogy.. :P < 1326427497 973738 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and lambdabot's weird flip is yet one < 1326427499 947946 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t flip < 1326427501 156492 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (f :: * -> *) a b. (Functor f) => f (a -> b) -> a -> f b < 1326427511 431739 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :BIND FUNCTOR < 1326427525 513990 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :except the f is on the outside < 1326427532 598226 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :f (a ->b) instead of a -> f b < 1326427541 98308 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's all about different ways to put in the f's < 1326427547 207215 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes I've noticed. < 1326427580 157326 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :flip is some kind of mixture of bind and ap isn't it? < 1326427612 113702 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :flip f x = fmap ($ x) f < 1326427622 590567 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_> oh < 1326427652 777970 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes < 1326427659 214723 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see how that generalizes the function case < 1326427673 664554 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there's also comonad whateverit'scalled < 1326427683 900320 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes of course... < 1326427690 389788 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(what?) < 1326427695 600331 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :extend, iirc < 1326427698 513085 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t extend < 1326427699 589363 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `extend' < 1326427707 297789 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :): < 1326427711 540984 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src Comonad < 1326427711 734864 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source not found. < 1326427723 113960 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess lambdabot may not have them at all < 1326427727 786545 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::k Comonad < 1326427728 836911 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: type constructor or class `Comonad' < 1326427733 445371 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::k CoMonad < 1326427734 303173 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: type constructor or class `CoMonad' < 1326427737 796096 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes functions are not pokemon. < 1326427745 529373 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::k Monad < 1326427746 345532 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Class `Monad' used as a type < 1326427746 539745 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : In the type `Monad' < 1326427751 862974 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :sheesh < 1326427800 238210 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle extend < 1326427800 732764 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :System.Posix.Terminal ExtendedFunctions :: TerminalMode < 1326427800 895072 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Text.Regex.Posix.Wrap compExtended :: CompOption < 1326427800 895190 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Text.Regex.Posix.String compExtended :: CompOption < 1326427806 118988 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't think so < 1326427853 147110 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes the classic regex comonad < 1326427888 205381 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :careful, it might exist < 1326427900 639454 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well Parsec is pretty close I guess. < 1326427909 860809 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :...is a Monad. < 1326427913 715270 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh rite < 1326427924 458407 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :see... < 1326427930 859005 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I shouldn't talk so much when I'm tired. < 1326427945 787369 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :aslobutely < 1326427970 937941 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (=>>) < 1326427971 825495 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `=>>' < 1326427973 883261 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot................... < 1326427976 128844 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how could you < 1326427984 369122 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh that maybe was it < 1326427992 435354 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(=>>) is flip extend < 1326427993 154093 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle (=>>) < 1326427993 688428 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :No results found < 1326428001 929143 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least I think it's flip extend?? < 1326428018 391837 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :extend flip < 1326428033 581562 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :extend tail < 1326428034 231760 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (>>= flip) < 1326428035 135044 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (f :: * -> *) a b. (Functor f) => (a -> f (a -> b)) -> a -> f b < 1326428044 126679 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :extend is defined by the Extend typeclass in Data.Functor.Extend which is exported by Control.Comonad, I think????????? < 1326428058 128153 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and all Comonads are Extends < 1326428120 907879 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought lambdabot had this stuff though < 1326428227 182492 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you should make sure that the f has been put in all the places and if not list out all of combinations you can put the f in and then write functions for them < 1326428396 383077 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :O KAY < 1326428493 250349 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :here's a good one < 1326428506 537671 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :f a -> f b -> (f a -> f b) < 1326428539 232701 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :const const? < 1326428548 992049 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes yes < 1326428562 172252 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no? < 1326428563 335835 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1326428569 529607 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t const const < 1326428570 531862 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b b1. b1 -> a -> b -> a < 1326428583 440362 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t const const :: (Functor f) => f a -> f b -> (f a -> f b) < 1326428584 377722 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (f :: * -> *) a b. (Functor f) => f a -> f b -> f a -> f b < 1326428611 913373 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh okay. < 1326428634 844045 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :here's another good one: < 1326428650 615050 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(f a -> f b) -> (f a -> f b) < 1326428704 469829 :qfr!void@unaffiliated/yw PART :#esoteric < 1326428709 501295 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will pay you $200 to figure this one out < 1326428733 162443 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :unsolved porbelm fro matemathics < 1326428862 278576 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> id id id id id id id id 2 < 1326428862 859992 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 2 < 1326428874 553146 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix id 2 < 1326428878 77077 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval-core: Time limit exceeded < 1326428896 77114 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn you consequences of halting problem. < 1326428997 764487 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1326429008 778905 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :.hi < 1326429636 322170 :MSleep!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net NICK :MDude < 1326431182 745570 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: "consequences of the halting problem" being "everything"? < 1326431189 698498 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Everything provable, anyway.) < 1326431383 405738 :Lymia!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1326431386 139558 :Lymia!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm speechless. < 1326431398 31360 :Lymia!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :I downloaded a Windows game, and tried to run it on WINE. It did not work. < 1326431408 19315 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::o < 1326431410 290595 :Lymia!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since it included source, I tried typing in "make" < 1326431424 851812 :Lymia!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :After adding a few imports, against all reason, it actually compiled... < 1326431441 222360 :Lymia!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ya-- 0,1Segmentation Fault < 1326431445 179298 :Lymia!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :;.; < 1326431466 345869 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::o < 1326431473 658729 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but did you try running _that_ in wine? < 1326431476 476937 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION helpful < 1326431510 341780 :Lymia!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I compiled it to a Linux native binary, dummy. < 1326431534 449999 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you ran it under WINE you might get a General Protection Fault. < 1326431560 588507 :Lymia!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Linux version, at least, manages to bring up a window before crashing. < 1326431872 533308 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-231-244.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326431907 563758 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-194-183.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1326432010 541941 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1326432034 307799 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326432889 605339 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Even in math there seems to be a general consensus about which problems are hard to solve, and what constitutes a good solution. But hacking is like writing. Who can say which of two novels is better? Certainly not the authors." < 1326432890 907525 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1326433050 825000 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-254-13.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326433058 412365 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-231-244.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1326433826 148707 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it was like painting. < 1326434209 531744 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :all the best writers of history have been painters and vice versa < 1326434211 46221 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :duh, everyone knows that < 1326435275 125489 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1326436056 46675 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1326436859 320925 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1326437806 135559 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Doesn't look like your tolerance for doses of #-blah is increasing with practice. < 1326437854 377016 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it's just wli < 1326437983 896594 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-254-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Determined to die, so why bother trying to find alternatives. That's him. < 1326438027 109884 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean he has got a really raw deal in life < 1326438035 817134 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :his bitterness is totally justified < 1326438044 599043 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that doesn't make it any more pleasant to be around < 1326438082 33798 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-254-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :True, *but* nevertheless. He might actually be able to wrangle refugee status. Or leave the US somehow... < 1326438462 424814 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Thinking in typeclasses is IMO the best thing to do: it's really the most Haskellish." < 1326438532 425398 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I'm surprised people are apparently willing to pay $250/day to program in Haskell rather than another language < 1326438536 481455 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :re http://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/odv3t/welltyped_are_hiring_haskell_consultant/ < 1326438557 713141 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are people actually willing to do that? < 1326438578 406511 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was talking about this in #haskell-blah but wli took over with his AMERIKKKA rants so now y'all get to hear about it < 1326438580 425719 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was copumpkin's assertion that if someone takes the job, then they're willing to do that. < 1326438601 589323 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, it's possible the number is too low and that well-typed won't get any applications < 1326438617 708919 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, price discovery is hard, double so in labor markets < 1326438627 868461 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm taking one party's bid as a crude approximation of market price < 1326438669 327698 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think one danger is that you get someone with intermediate Haskell skill who is super naive < 1326438742 990275 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone who thinks Haskell magically eliminates all of the annoyances of programming in the real world < 1326438761 495958 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-254-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alas, Haskell doesn't eliminate the real world. < 1326438764 38822 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-254-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what @'s for! < 1326438791 233858 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the language really were as good as those people think, it would be worth the pay cut < 1326438795 97236 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's not, and no language ever will be < 1326438820 713579 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just a pretty good programming language < 1326438837 613601 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there are many other companies that will pay you twice as much to use a different pretty good programming language < 1326438853 789739 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are some other pretty good programming languages? < 1326438906 48182 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-254-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'm pretty sure $55k is more like (somewhat low) starting wages for a halfway competent programmer literally just out of college... < 1326438915 436087 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I think the consensus in that thread in general was that they're underpaying. < 1326438930 888156 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, last I knew Google, Facebook, etc. would start around $80k, plus health insurance and other benefits < 1326438933 675322 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-254-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :... In the Midwest. < 1326438951 354098 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're working remotely from the USA, take like $500/mo off that Well-Typed money for health insurance < 1326438986 187069 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, languages i like include Haskell, Python, OCaml, Clojure, Scheme, C (for certain things) < 1326438989 968417 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :none of them is perfect < 1326439016 248278 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :for many tasks none of the first five will dominate, assuming you have skill in all < 1326439031 849331 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-254-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Sorry, my scale of wages is somewhat set by the region I live in, which has significantly lower cost-of-living than the Valley. < 1326439040 73015 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair enough < 1326439056 232059 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that is one reason Well-Typed's offer might be more reasonable than it looks < 1326439058 961644 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can live somewhere cheap < 1326439069 614008 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but cheap places suck < 1326439075 255352 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-254-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1326439093 393247 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :either you really need the money, in which case you can get more anyway, or you're young and healthy and single, in which case you probably don't want to live in the middle of nowhere < 1326439109 796676 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i mean that's a false dichotomy but you get the point) < 1326439126 797620 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-254-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you're presuming a fairly high level of skill. < 1326439133 380249 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-254-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which makes the dichotomy pretty applicable. < 1326439167 465765 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well also you might be stuck in the middle of nowhere for other reasons < 1326439219 252551 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :personally i think working from home is Not For Me < 1326439234 928550 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-254-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've done that. I've learned the hard way that it's Not For Me. < 1326439247 909772 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1326439276 989327 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-254-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've discovered I'm not very productive in a home environment at all. < 1326439279 143830 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :one problem for me was the lack of separation between "work" and "not-work", meaning I'd spend all day not-working but also spend all day feeling guilty about the fact that I should be working < 1326439285 503448 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-254-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like some mental switch in my head goes "home" = "fuck around" < 1326439311 78421 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a physical office job I might enter that state too but only for 8-10 hours at a time :) < 1326439319 523550 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nohjf < 1326439321 117688 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Niughji < 1326439322 368287 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Night < 1326439326 893541 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_O < 1326439328 655223 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :'night Sgeo < 1326439328 953093 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :night sgeo < 1326439368 798632 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other problem was lack of contact with my coworkers and employers < 1326439379 822704 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :just seeing them around being productive makes me more productive < 1326439392 159067 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not about explicit communication < 1326439399 157504 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-254-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That, too, is a factor. < 1326439403 704669 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(though in my experience with WFH we were also bad about explicit communication) < 1326439435 314988 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :some companies have employees who WFH most of the time and come in like one day a week < 1326439438 918876 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i'd like that < 1326439609 912152 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may have an ingrown fingernail. < 1326439619 374453 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sucks :( < 1326439634 142979 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hopefully it'll pass on its own. Sometimes that happens. < 1326439641 301161 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? < 1326439728 790601 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, sometimes I think "this might be an ingrown fingernail" and then the thing passes on its own. < 1326439732 519790 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1326439743 731196 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this a subtle hint that the previous topic is less pleasant than an ingrown fingernail < 1326439769 710069 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the previous topic was *more* pleasant than an ingrown fingernail, come to think of it. < 1326439784 7003 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But if I'm going to suffer, why not share it with the rest of you? < 1326439791 692385 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not share it with wli < 1326439878 451680 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's a place where I can ask experts questions about category theory without bothering to figure out anything about category theory, including what my question means? < 1326439892 763496 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the answer "#haskell"? < 1326439910 461954 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The answer is probably "don't". < 1326439979 31198 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean probably the best reason to take a pay cut for a job using Haskell specifically < 1326439988 335114 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that it's a proxy for the kind of people you'll be working with < 1326440020 532532 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i think the dollar value there is pretty low < 1326440084 896934 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure how much it tells you versus being extra attentive during the process of interview etc. < 1326440104 239687 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i think it's much more valuable in the other direction, for companies assessing candidates) < 1326440106 220040 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-254-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Also, much more relevant if you're working in the office. < 1326440107 878109 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, in this case it's not just "the kind of people" but a specific group of people in particular. < 1326440133 876228 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1326440243 813677 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, why more relevant if you're working in the office? < 1326440296 377648 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :by "kind of people" i mean that they're probably pretty smart and have some respect for sophisticated and unconventional approaches, stuff like that < 1326440309 382061 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really like the personality aspect < 1326440350 447325 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm thinking of stuff that is relevant if you're working together on some code, whether or not you're in the same physical location < 1326440420 164616 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-254-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1326440450 12595 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i doubt you can infer that much about personality from someone's choice of programming language < 1326440468 674904 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :except for Lisp of course < 1326440485 768964 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-254-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1326440498 279996 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lisp programmers are all geniuses from a higher plane of existence, tragically misunderstood in this brutal, unenlightened era < 1326440528 552345 :cheater!~cheater@dslb-084-057-001-153.pools.arcor-ip.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1326440554 966512 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :destined to die young and crazy of syphilis, like the great painters and writers < 1326440566 198822 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-254-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also doomed to die rich. < 1326440571 691898 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-254-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1326440578 441561 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no hackers are painters/writers < 1326440587 31508 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :dying rich is super nega-cred for those folks < 1326440601 726004 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're supposed to die poor and then have your art become ultra-valuable hundreds of years later < 1326440603 850032 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-254-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then what about Paul Graham? < 1326440610 188872 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-254-13.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait, right. Do as I say, not as I do. < 1326440621 965389 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1326441615 682038 :cheater!~cheater@dslb-084-057-001-153.pools.arcor-ip.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326444076 212188 :cheater!~cheater@dslb-084-057-001-153.pools.arcor-ip.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1326445152 810852 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey QUIT :Quit: The Other Game < 1326445616 823307 :cheater!~cheater@dslb-084-057-001-153.pools.arcor-ip.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326445944 164111 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-254-13.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1326445945 866228 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-245-51.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326447251 476078 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1326447273 502013 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326448155 519384 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's some sort of a thing that in some PDF files, evince has replaced capital-sigma sum signs with large dots. This is not the first such file I've seen. < 1326449323 140122 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1326449331 679115 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :-NickServ- Last failed attempt from: elliott!~elliott@c-69-181-214-206.hsd1.ca.comcast.net on Jan 13 03:36:38 2012. < 1326449341 199313 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :My nick, fucker. < 1326449372 609369 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1326449381 323488 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh my, is that my IP address? < 1326449383 372583 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(No.) < 1326449401 57722 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: "My, nickfucker." < 1326449708 185533 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :my oh my < 1326449713 194478 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nickfuckers can only mean trouble < 1326449771 359404 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:09:38: i was talking about this in #haskell-blah but wli took over with his AMERIKKKA rants so now y'all get to hear about it < 1326449781 166522 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I'm so glad I didn't listen to you when you told me to join -blah. < 1326449829 55568 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi elliott < 1326449833 715801 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: FASCIST < 1326449844 481006 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION expected to be asleep a couple of hours ago. < 1326449845 965807 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi monqy < 1326449846 917284 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*kmc < 1326449858 341341 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And by "expected" I mean "planned but didn't really expect". < 1326449870 611564 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi elliott < 1326449929 890847 :Lymia!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION flails < 1326449930 89836 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: You should pay someone to knock you unconscious at a prearranged time. < 1326449932 153639 :Lymia!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :CRAP CRAP CRAP < 1326449937 377840 :Lymia!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Run under valgrind? No segfault < 1326449941 192641 :Lymia!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Run without valgrind? Segfault < 1326449942 443064 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'll be happy to pay you to do that. < 1326449943 203364 :Lymia!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heisingbug... :( < 1326449957 229603 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Okay. My going rate is $2,000/knockout. < 1326449959 404352 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: Does valgrind report errors? < 1326449966 131730 :Lymia!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, I'm going to examine that < 1326449969 642758 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I have these wooden nickels... < 1326449996 484499 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: [Hilarious Monkey Island quote I'm too tired to think of.] < 1326450011 712948 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In the Mayan calendar, 2012 is suppose to be a year of deep cleansing and rebirth for the world. In this spirit, I’ve been branching out into new fields and broadening my conceptual view of software development." < 1326450013 786320 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks, Mayans. < 1326450016 57445 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thayans. < 1326450082 914096 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have these nickel woodens < 1326450085 344961 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :absolutely useless < 1326450174 942118 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wickel noodens < 1326450176 971454 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Why am I not on that list? < 1326450192 83080 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"shachaf, IRC idling genius" < 1326450250 714504 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yeah i lolled at that post < 1326450253 991360 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Wait, what list? < 1326450269 611319 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: From the post you just quoted. < 1326450286 488886 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. I didn't actually read beyond that. < 1326450305 313914 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, it's literally just a list of people who use functional languages? < 1326450307 876219 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, thanks for nothing, elliott. Thfnelliott. < 1326450325 46332 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No, it also has Haskell B. Curry. < 1326450366 67400 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: He programmed in ML. < 1326450379 674473 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like how Jesus was Jewish. < 1326450392 330746 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:21:59: Nohjf < 1326450392 529523 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:22:01: Niughji < 1326450392 529713 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:22:02: Night < 1326450395 2329 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :godrijgromorngoirdg < 1326450398 566277 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mogirdg nogidr < 1326450399 913885 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :good morning < 1326450409 750350 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ieelieiote < 1326450413 609244 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hoe eihgleiont < 1326450415 870613 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi helioent < 1326450416 147023 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:26:49: I may have an ingrown fingernail. < 1326450417 648201 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi heliot < 1326450419 517379 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi elliott < 1326450419 782715 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: He programmed in ML like how Jesus was Jewish? < 1326450424 782758 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I thought that wasn't possible. < 1326450428 107445 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least ais said that wasn't possible. < 1326450436 846076 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey guys i like haskell and fp, i have nothing to say about it, just wanted you all to know < 1326450438 257971 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, yes. < 1326450469 461247 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Here's my spj shrine *strokes framed photo lovingly* < 1326450480 620777 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, why haven't I set up an SPJ shrine yet? < 1326450486 36361 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's like #1 on my list of things to do. < 1326450531 504968 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:43:21: you're supposed to die poor and then have your art become ultra-valuable hundreds of years later < 1326450542 839654 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: which is why you should found a startup that everybody hates and is lost to the mists of time < 1326450549 974356 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :make sure that the servers keep running when you die < 1326450554 51964 :Lymia!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan NICK :Madoka-Kaname < 1326450562 120837 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in a few hundreds of years everyone will rediscover it and it'll become the talk of the web2.0sphere < 1326450572 591654 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :artist style(tm) < 1326450594 299978 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :web2.0 in hundreds of years? < 1326450602 691496 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :haven't they moved on to web a billion point oh by then < 1326450610 559528 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: no its classique < 1326450616 913679 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Father of Haskell foundations" hahaha i didn't even < 1326450618 878961 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :see that part < 1326450619 403754 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh a special sphere < 1326450625 27119 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :for web2.0 archaeologists < 1326450680 593801 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :everyone has their own sphere in the future < 1326450717 169236 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Oh, you got that post from /r/haskell. < 1326450720 925192 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how it has 4 points. < 1326450742 781434 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should do some experiments on how bad I can make posts before they get downvoted on /r/haskell. < 1326450753 110757 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I'm balancing the satisfaction of commenting with something like "You forgot to add the content." and the chance that it'll make people think I'm a jerk and not upvote me on SO. < 1326450773 51277 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That's why you make the second account. < 1326450781 709722 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://stackoverflow.com/questions/8834582/is-haskell-a-lisp-dialect ;; this question got 3 upvotes < 1326450789 937090 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, people upvote jerks on SO. < 1326450802 358188 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://stackoverflow.com/questions/8829194/why-are-types-with-no-data-constructors-valid ;; this one got 10 < 1326450856 788359 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you know that typedefs can shadow variable names in C? < 1326450876 850951 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :int foo; void v() { typedef int foo; ... } < 1326450887 719540 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Isn't that what causes that context-sensitive bit? < 1326450900 625286 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Waterstones, the bookshop, has dropped the apostrophe in its trading name and logo, sparking outrage among some of its customers. < 1326450900 787323 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It's just plain wrong", said John Richards, chairman of the Apostrophe Protection Society" < 1326450923 372359 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Its just plain wrong", wrote John Richard's, chairman of the Apostrophe Protection Society" < 1326450930 278557 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*'Society < 1326450939 952009 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Its just plain wrong", wrote John Richard's, chairman of the Apostrophe Protection *'Society" < 1326450950 42468 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was going to go with S'ociety, but that's all right too. < 1326450968 795951 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ch'man < 1326450974 687881 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :o' th' < 1326450989 352602 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CAN YOU FIND ALL OCCURENCES OF THE LTTER S IN THIS SENTENCE? IF YOU FIND ALL SIX, YOUR IQ IS AT LEAST 400 < 1326450997 339537 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :'postraph' 'rotectin' < 1326451008 71993 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :apo'strophe < 1326451018 568961 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"thanks for the trophe" --apo < 1326451061 567151 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The apostrophe, named after the apostles of Jesus Christ. < 1326451088 709126 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-250-3.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326451089 695010 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-245-51.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1326451171 231535 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since I don't know much C I shall upvote you, but from what I DO know; WHY not use C++ instead? You'll just have your instance of a pushbutton, and call functions from within it, Instead of having 430983852 different functions in a really messy API. Tidyness disappears. However, for those of you who are experienced in both C and C++, what is the benefits of programming like a nutcracker (in C) ? < 1326451171 619250 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: "Of course, for the single-constructor, single-item cases, newtype is preferred over data." < 1326451190 930094 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1326451193 389619 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Don't. I already held back the tears. < 1326451195 338665 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nutcracker? < 1326451205 553136 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: if i suddenly say something really weird it's a quote < 1326451211 214997 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless it's me < 1326451212 3207 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i got that, but? < 1326451214 531779 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1326451221 975459 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/oek2t/any_interest_in_a_c_binding_to_wxwidgets_from/c3gp4si < 1326451231 309961 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :interpretation is left to the reader < 1326451320 427583 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm going to write a preprocessor for GHC that replaces all instances of "data" with "newtype" if the file remains valid. < 1326451383 251720 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I bet the author of that comment thinks that "newtype" exists as a separate keyword for historical reasons. :( < 1326451461 922227 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :From today, 430983852 will be known as "the C++ overhead constant". < 1326452735 155186 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1326453011 808362 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1326453119 34372 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : everyone has their own sphere in the future < 1326453122 465350 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this, a thousand times < 1326453202 935054 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: deep < 1326453209 496645 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : Wait, it's literally just a list of people who use functional languages? elliott: No, it also has Haskell B. Curry. shachaf: He programmed in ML. < 1326453216 617225 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :irrelevant because Haskell was the first functional language < 1326453228 473547 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ML is "almost-functional" < 1326453239 70372 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :source: _Gentle Introduction to Haskell 98_, chapter 1 < 1326453419 59818 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : CAN YOU FIND ALL OCCURENCES OF THE LTTER S IN THIS SENTENCE? IF YOU FIND ALL SIX, YOU HAVE LUPUS < 1326453632 335662 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Well, I wouldn't really call ML functional either. I guess I'm a zealot. < 1326453638 375887 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, irc is hard real time < 1326453656 665397 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :IRC is real, hard time < 1326453659 487747 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for computer hacking) < 1326453676 987519 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, a language can't be considered functional unless it uses {- -} for multi-line comments < 1326453683 105433 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :as should be trivially obvious to the most casual observer < 1326453705 377653 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in college we had a house office named Most Casual Observer) < 1326453714 342126 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(their job was to observe things casually and thus know all) < 1326453729 464848 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: i wonder how the {--} syntax came abou < 1326453729 783632 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :t < 1326453760 293704 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it combines the worst bits of imperative programming languages, that we don't have a use for any more < 1326453763 282411 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :{} and -- < 1326453770 745501 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1326453808 731673 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :they represent a pair of dwarvish fire-daggers < 1326453816 548203 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :as should be trivially obvious to the most casual observer < 1326453823 119082 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The most causal observer. < 1326453845 854206 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :together they cast a powerful Spell of Warding +5 which prevents execution of the code by any compiler with armor class 12 or lower < 1326454003 642844 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: All Witchaloks are hermaphroditic androgynites. < 1326454004 1257 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: oh, no, man... i forgot. i've got some mashed potatoes over here, it means you're a math teacher. < 1326454026 263188 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :another benefit is that you can write {-∗-} should you need to represent Darth Vader's TIE Fighter Advanced x1 within Haskell source code < 1326454067 617523 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"the ideal comment syntax is smalltalks" < 1326454085 90686 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously, the Gentle Introduction does say that ML and Scheme are "almost-functional" < 1326455106 442666 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Alas, GHC 7.0 still cannot handle equality superclasses: < 1326455106 604911 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Rep t ~ rep < 1326455109 168712 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not again! < 1326455156 340524 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :alas and alack < 1326455192 593695 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326455218 184782 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is way too difficult < 1326455422 803876 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it works in newer GHC < 1326455444 532811 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :blomg < 1326455460 373359 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, please send me messages so I don't look like an idiot again. < 1326455498 507353 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell Phantom_Hoover Hi. < 1326455498 956544 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1326455508 911069 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Better. < 1326455509 349315 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. < 1326455513 307553 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages < 1326455513 846441 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott said 15s ago: Hi. < 1326455742 590429 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell lambdabot u suck < 1326455743 3570 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice try ;) < 1326455782 189820 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell me something new < 1326455782 749982 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1326455783 118689 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :T PANTS THESE AREN'T THE BALLS YOU'RE LOOKING FOR < 1326455790 622156 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how many messages "me" has. < 1326456028 434133 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :me's not an allowed nick, is it? < 1326456067 370210 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Information on me (account spb): blah blah blah. < 1326456070 802552 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's someone else's. < 1326456493 319887 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoever it is, they have MemoServ set up to prevent them getting sent anything. < 1326456506 511717 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :* me :Nick/channel is temporarily unavailable < 1326456516 198246 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And they haven't been seen for 40 weeks in any case. < 1326456519 59324 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott NICK :elliott_ < 1326456521 490758 :elliott_!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages? < 1326456522 44351 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, no messages today. < 1326456526 788520 :elliott_!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott NICK :ehird < 1326456528 130927 :ehird!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages? < 1326456528 670091 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, no messages today. < 1326456530 595244 :ehird!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott NICK :elliott < 1326456543 220778 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott NICK :Phantom__Hoover < 1326456545 43638 :Phantom__Hoover!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages? < 1326456545 492570 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, no messages today. < 1326456547 916813 :Phantom__Hoover!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott NICK :elliott < 1326456564 913523 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does lambdabot deal with ident stuff? < 1326456636 352727 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't. < 1326456707 349707 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :They haven't used the "me" nick in 40 weeks, you mean; the account is online right now. < 1326456765 413272 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The owner of "you" similarly hasn't used you in 62 weeks. < 1326456777 293388 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm thinking nicknames for punnery or such. < 1326456946 828371 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326456965 357874 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle try < 1326456965 848177 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.OldException try :: IO a -> IO (Either Exception a) < 1326456966 10415 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :System.IO.Error try :: IO a -> IO (Either IOError a) < 1326456966 10604 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Exception.Base try :: Exception e => IO a -> IO (Either e a) < 1326457033 914445 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trying times. < 1326457100 177255 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t reads < 1326457101 312987 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Read a) => String -> [(a, String)] < 1326457122 543541 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wants to see an example of there being more than one element in the list < 1326457332 343561 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :me too < 1326457403 550421 :cheater!~cheater@dslb-084-057-001-153.pools.arcor-ip.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1326457404 843293 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is try a typeclass thing then, or not? < 1326457416 571889 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's "a typeclass thing" < 1326457421 667859 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mean < 1326457428 16916 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it a typeclass method, or based on them. < 1326457441 85292 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, wait, no, not based on them. < 1326457458 130275 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are those functions all independently defined, or are they parts of instances? < 1326457470 120211 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which functions? the three that hoogle mentioned? < 1326457474 710660 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1326457475 428415 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was able to make an Exception instance without defining any methods, somehow < 1326457495 177014 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It occurs to me that that doesn't mean much < 1326457496 374586 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/base/latest/doc/html/Control-Exception.html < 1326457501 841243 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, those are independent functions. basically, three different generations of the exception system < 1326457504 138939 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exception is just < 1326457509 684275 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :toException :: e -> SomeException < 1326457509 980261 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fromException :: SomeException -> Maybe e < 1326457513 228135 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so no, try isn't a typeclass method. < 1326457515 616903 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, that's expected, and documented < 1326457521 590537 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I just checked that in ghci. < 1326457535 394388 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, yes, but for some reason I thought that was relevant to Phantom_Hoover's question < 1326457539 295639 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :When it really wasn't < 1326457540 836311 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1326457590 422074 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh, the things need to be Typeable? < 1326457602 6709 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, so in standard Haskell you have try for IOError only, and then that was generalized to a larger fixed set of exceptions (in what's now Control.OldException), and then to the extensible system in Control.Exception < 1326457616 124934 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, yes, the extensible exception system uses Typeable < 1326457744 134499 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically exceptions are dynamically typed < 1326457750 495391 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and catching does a run-time type check < 1326457773 120918 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : The use of the phrase "pozycjonowanie google cottages" can be considered a little bit misleading. < 1326457787 380025 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1326457793 236041 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that polish or gibberish < 1326457806 351881 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm glad you have correctly left alone the asd pages < 1326457808 595225 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :as they're claerly not spam < 1326457809 597811 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's a foreign language from context, polish wouldn't surprise me < 1326457813 834687 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Eh, the things need to be Typeable? < 1326457817 872260 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems to mean "positioning" in Polish < 1326457818 987363 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: that's how the entire exception system works < 1326457819 533593 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I haven't reached them yet < 1326457841 46905 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but meh, I'll leave them < 1326457842 726897 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: if you unlayer the abstractions far enough, the exception system is based on comparing two strings and using unsafeCoerce if they're equal < 1326457849 337241 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is: gross < 1326457889 155131 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :anything is gross if you unlayer the abstractions far enough < 1326457907 511515 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: yeah but you can still define your own Typeable instances today :P < 1326457918 93271 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that's unfortunate < 1326457956 603633 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :data a :=: b where { Refl :: a :=: a}; class TypeEq a where { typeEq :: (TypeEq b) => Maybe (a :=: b) } < 1326457961 366253 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a magic deriving (TypeEq) < 1326457974 801389 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what we need, it would be perfectly safe ... and also really confusing < 1326457994 662290 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you want things besides decidable equality < 1326458010 136374 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: do you? I thought that's all Exception needed < 1326458011 846519 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cast < 1326458019 480396 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's convenient if you can order and hash TypeReps < 1326458027 151622 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Typeable is useful, yeah < 1326458027 709524 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe Exception doesn't need that < 1326458029 340416 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in general < 1326458029 502313 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but Exception doesn't need it < 1326458046 335385 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i think it's kind of a misuse of Typeable, Exception wants dynamic typing and uses the reflection mechanism to accomplish it < 1326458093 387065 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dynamic is also implemented with Typeable, is that an abuse? < 1326458126 426399 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: well, yes :) < 1326458131 931250 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean it's not terrible or anything < 1326458140 50587 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but Typeable gives you a lot more than you need for that < 1326458144 586023 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is the more useful function's name longer? < 1326458148 285146 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it definitely feels like conflating two things < 1326458154 50439 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ? < 1326458163 311019 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fromDynamic vs fromDyn < 1326458170 290797 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :historical reasons? < 1326458170 521636 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that's terrible < 1326458175 753138 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fromDyn could easily be expressed in terms of fromDynamic < 1326458226 756187 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I see your point < 1326458235 842861 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fromDyn dyn default = fromMaybe default (fromDynamic dyn) < 1326458257 410785 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :from is now semantically saturated for me < 1326458258 29598 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes yes < 1326458260 723098 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :from from from < 1326458323 952113 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fromDynamic (Dynamic t v) = case unsafeCoerce v of r | t == typeOf r -> Just r | otherwise -> Nothing < 1326458337 658582 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a fun tangle < 1326458526 125064 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: haha is that seriously the implementation? < 1326458529 372068 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1326458538 904330 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Funtangled particles. < 1326458540 94527 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that scares me, I wouldn't be able to bring myself to type unsafeCoerce until I'm safely in the right branch < 1326458563 884374 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah it's pretty sketchy < 1326458581 679653 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: i wonder if Dynamic is actually more efficient than an existential these days < 1326458590 830625 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess (a -> TypeRep) is a bit heavier than TypeRep < 1326458609 219585 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean, an existential with a Typeable constraint? < 1326458623 309151 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*nod* < 1326458623 565827 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1326458631 628803 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone should write abenchmark < 1326458634 191086 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least i was told it's a deliberate optimisation of that < 1326458643 940975 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1326458652 151163 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :benchmarks? meh, that's work, and I might be proven wrong < 1326458663 89460 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's easier to sit here and make people think i'm smart for having seen the better way < 1326458670 398342 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :bravo < 1326458697 478079 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :better use some hash tables too, I hear they're O(1) < 1326458721 369129 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :O(1) EVERYTHING < 1326458733 49924 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :find :: (a -> Bool) -> HashTable k a -> Maybe a -- O(1) < 1326458753 172273 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION pokes the argument order of that < 1326458788 342335 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't I once yell at Factor for its sensitivity to argument order? And for the endless required imports? < 1326458792 207258 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yet Haskell does both < 1326458795 717183 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1326458814 79324 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but Haskell is the best language < 1326458827 188516 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"sensitivity to argument order"? < 1326458828 44895 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so sensitivity to argument order and endless required imports must somehow be virtues < 1326458854 651828 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway that argument order is obviously correct < 1326458859 437213 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, a decision about order of arguments can make a function easier or harder to use < 1326458861 788547 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm gonna say that sensitivity to argument order makes you pay attention to something important that the Java Monkeys ignore < 1326458864 850422 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't really matter what < 1326458887 324952 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and required imports are great for all those static analysis and refactoring tools Haskell has < 1326458905 93793 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(by "has" I mean "someone would have to write from scratch", but that's a matter of trivial engineering) < 1326459021 72010 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Yeah, API design matters. That's a big language flaw. < 1326459065 414038 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's maybe annoying in a language where curried functions (<-- I will kill anyone who objects to this terminology) aren't the standard, but when they are it's obviously a benefit, since partial application is so common. < 1326459068 993591 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The thing is argument order is a more significant part of the API in Haskell and Factor than it is in Python < 1326459108 526297 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Relatedly, I consider it a /good/ thing if functions with 5+ arguments are a pain to use; it's a sign you should be factoring out those arguments into data types, or taking a more combinator-based approach, etc. (Although the record hack is acceptable for interfacing with foreign libraries at a low level.) < 1326459129 835281 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: You're really grumpy. < 1326459156 411923 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I love how the Haskell standard libraries got API design wrong so often < 1326459159 337846 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a good thing that because < 1326459164 510549 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t Map.lookup < 1326459165 540488 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Couldn't find qualified module. < 1326459168 940724 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t Data.Map.lookup < 1326459170 19557 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall k a. (Ord k) => k -> M.Map k a -> Maybe a < 1326459175 276517 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: They did? < 1326459185 143919 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t head < 1326459185 642361 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the correct way around. < 1326459186 195576 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. [a] -> a < 1326459194 732038 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I may be grumpy but I'm right, and that's all that counts on The Internet < 1326459207 663404 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I don't consider it a rationalisation of a language flaw; I have no real vested interest in making people think Haskell is good. < 1326459228 277019 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, which "record hack"? the one where your function takes a big record, and you provide a default value for that record, and callers can use record-update syntax? < 1326459237 21900 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: head is evil; what's that got to do with Map.lookup? < 1326459246 832050 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, why's head evil. < 1326459248 748018 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait. < 1326459251 53252 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> head [] < 1326459252 63803 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : *Exception: Prelude.head: empty list < 1326459254 532878 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :head is evil is a separate example of bad API design < 1326459260 228041 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t lookup < 1326459260 984862 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b. (Eq a) => a -> [(a, b)] -> Maybe b < 1326459262 115879 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so much bad API design in Prelude < 1326459273 890226 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Yes. It's a blatant hack, and it's awful, but if you want to interface with something that uses keyword arguments or whatever at a low level... < 1326459299 848005 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, can you explain what makes it a "blatant hack" and "awful"? < 1326459301 43119 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I'd usually just bind N-parameter-for-huge-N functions directly, since they're almost always from languages without keyword arguments, anyway (since almost all languages don't have keyword arguments). < 1326459310 347713 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't it preferred to make a function that takes the object immediately, so you could try different keys with the partially applied function, etc? < 1326459318 824240 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like that trick and I don't see what it has to do with "interfacing with foreign libraries at a low level" < 1326459332 607833 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: You're misinterpreting me. < 1326459340 319835 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's common to have a procedure with a bunch of customizable behavior, for which most callers only want to change a few parts < 1326459345 976976 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not saying that the trick exists to do such interfacing. < 1326459362 129489 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're saying it's gross and has cooties and should only be used when touching the unclean terrible world of anything not Haskell < 1326459374 950734 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION yawn < 1326459375 887123 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but why < 1326459381 986323 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is it a hack and awful < 1326459384 355803 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not going to bother if you're just going to twist everything I say into "HASKELL R AWSUM". < 1326459403 735404 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1326459421 354683 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i'm going to continue to use this "blatant hack" in APIs i design < 1326459437 129017 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :until I see a problem with it or someone points one out to me < 1326459441 360232 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're fine with that, so am i < 1326459454 37633 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also don't see why you're blowing a parenthical remark in a completely different context out of proportion... < 1326459520 471945 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do consider most uses of the record thing a hack, and I do think it's fairly awful, but I was talking about it in a completely different context to the use-case you suggested. < 1326459541 236950 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : why is it a hack and awful < 1326459554 481460 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and which context? < 1326459573 766580 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just keep saying it's bad without explaining why < 1326459615 397482 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: The context I was talking about is the awkwardness of using functions with a large number of parameters (which a lot of people think explicitly named arguments like in Smalltalk (not overriding-defaults style like in Python or whatever) alleviates). < 1326459637 613111 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1326459698 115687 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i agree that functions with a large number of required parameters are bad < 1326459706 69243 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :For representing something like a Smalltalk-named-argument call, a record with a default is supremely ugly because you have to use "undefined" or whatever as a default, and failing to specify an argument is just silently accepted. < 1326459736 908338 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about using Nothings as a default? < 1326459741 125751 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do think that a lot of the procedure-with-a-bunch-of-customisable-behaviour situations can be done more nicely combinator-style or similarly, but records-with-defaults are fine for such configuration. < 1326459745 498039 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although admittedly it's ugly to call, but still < 1326459756 907478 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: That doesn't solve anything, since the underlying function will have to fromJust them. < 1326459778 190970 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, when all the things should be required? < 1326459783 107363 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't provide a default then < 1326459798 473306 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right, SomeRecord {} fills things in with undefined? < 1326459800 50071 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1326459807 552177 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, at least GHC will warn though < 1326459818 20543 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Anyway, my main point was that a lot of people point to e.g. an OpenGL or Win32 call with a billion parameters and say "look how much cleaner this would be if we you named arguments; therefore it's a language flaw not to have them", but in reality those functions have more like 3 parameters, it's just that those parameters are data-types left implicit because of limited abstraction facilities. < 1326459830 476128 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1326459836 655621 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or sometimes it's even that one function is doing the work of five because of limited composability, etc. < 1326459855 330361 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not having named arguments simplifies the language and discourages such things. Of course you have to make up for it with sufficient abstractional facilities. < 1326459868 181976 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :glLoadMatrix16(float, float, float, float, float, float, float, float, float, float, float, float, float, float, float, float) < 1326459889 494552 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think the record trick is fine (not perfect) when you want to selectively override defaults < 1326459890 572999 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that a real example? :D < 1326459894 665697 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think so < 1326459896 851986 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1326459924 437491 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a while i worked on a C++ codebase where one of the most important classes had a constructor like this: < 1326459941 655507 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thing::Thing(Foo, const Bar*, bool, bool, bool, bool, bool, bool, bool, bool, bool, bool, bool, bool, bool) < 1326459952 409529 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :all of those bools had default values; some were true and some were false < 1326459978 905516 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also you had to be careful because the order would change between development and production branches, as new features were merged < 1326459982 798958 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Was the class called Thing too? < 1326459985 477903 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1326459986 790349 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1326459987 831080 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't think of a situation where named parameters beats a properly designed abstraction. < 1326459996 936552 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: naming parameters < 1326460024 86244 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it's better at that I suppose. < 1326460024 811062 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, overriding default settings < 1326460034 784360 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :meanwhile data structures are better at naming record fields. < 1326460035 920162 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example how would you replace this with a "properly designed abstraction"? http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/concorde/0.1/doc/html/Algorithms-Concorde-LinKern.html#t:Config < 1326460047 279604 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[ < 1326460047 442162 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I wonder: is this for beginn...@haskell.org ?) < 1326460047 442346 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :toA_IO = openFile (dir "toA") WriteMode :: IO Handle < 1326460047 442452 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fromA_IO = openFile (dir "fromA") ReadMode < 1326460047 442559 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : -- used as global values < 1326460047 782652 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :toA = unsafePerformIO toA_IO -- < 1326460049 786701 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fromA = unsafePerformIO fromA_IO -- < 1326460051 786512 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :]] < 1326460053 790243 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank god for beginners < 1326460060 497899 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/\?\)/?)\n[...]\n/ < 1326460076 921130 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, maybe what you meant by "properly designed abstraction" is in fact a record like this < 1326460082 281343 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: yes < 1326460082 443525 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i don't think it's much of an abstraction < 1326460096 200498 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: defConfig is your default parameter set < 1326460098 153939 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just a hodgepodge of all the ways you can change the behavior of 'tsp' < 1326460099 724414 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: TBH I'd probably represent that like... < 1326460116 34857 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, similarly, I guess. But with a Monoid interface. < 1326460122 412840 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That doesn't really buy you all that much in this situation, though. < 1326460127 284991 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a language with default keyword args I probably wouldn't define a separate type < 1326460133 75567 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, do I actually want a Monoid interface there. < 1326460133 938900 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :for simplicity's sake < 1326460147 19954 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Monoid instance is sometimes useful; I think it's dubious here < 1326460148 560369 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Anyway, I think that's actually preferable to named parameters. < 1326460151 106774 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because you can pass around Configs. < 1326460160 765672 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: gluProject(GLdouble, GLdouble, GLdouble, const GLdouble *, const GLdouble *, const GLint *, GLdouble*, GLdouble*, GLdouble*). (Okay, so last three are just output parameters; they pretty consistently take 4x4 matrices as pointers, and only go up to 4-vectors as separate parameters.) < 1326460172 251579 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: SO ELEGANT. < 1326460172 861859 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :to the function user it's not a huge difference. To the implementor it's a bit more work to define a data type and a default constructor. < 1326460181 138143 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, sure, you can, but you usually don't need to < 1326460187 773458 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: "default constructor"? you have to specify the defaults anyway :P < 1326460196 814949 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :true. < 1326460201 430242 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :an airplane is better than a car because it can also fly < 1326460203 109224 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just abit more typing is all. < 1326460212 378686 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, why 4-vectors? < 1326460213 48975 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: If you used more-notation, I think you could specify the defaults inline with the fields. < 1326460214 544011 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :however the airplane is harder to build and more expensive ;P < 1326460215 896912 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :same amount of information though, I suppose. (except you also need types in a statically typed language of course) < 1326460224 142117 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :M O R E N O T A T I O N < 1326460227 904478 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Has OpenGL cornered the 4D gaming market while I wasn't looking? < 1326460235 857134 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1326460238 364937 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: GLint gluUnProject4(GLdouble, GLdouble, GLdouble, GLdouble, const GLdouble *, const GLdouble *, const GLint, GLdouble, GLdouble, GLdouble*, GLdouble*, GLdouble*, GLdouble*); /* real function */ < 1326460240 423379 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/User:Zzo38/Proposal_for_more-notation#Fields_in_record_syntax < 1326460240 585529 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :/kick kmc < 1326460242 444317 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Homogenous coordinates. < 1326460247 925152 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: :D < 1326460253 849313 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, perspective transformation is linear with homogeneous coordinates < 1326460270 769227 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :meaning that (x, y, z, w) represents the 3D point (x/w, y/w, z/w) < 1326460283 986613 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then for the cases in Python where a function basically treats its parameter set as a hash table you'd use some equivalent mapping structure. < 1326460285 188746 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Sorry, I droppeded one star. < 1326460325 714065 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you start with some vectors where w=1 and then get something else < 1326460332 976207 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and renormalize them before you draw them < 1326460364 174786 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I can't, for the life of me, figure out how named parameters are supposed t work in conjunction with currying. < 1326460365 249575 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :believe this corresponds to 3D projective space, where the extra "point at infinity" is (anything, anything, anything, 0) < 1326460490 157529 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :some other minor issues that could be amended are that named parameters require you to know the names of parameters. In Haskell these are lovely things such as "m f g h x y z". Also, currently documentation doesn't list parameter names and doing so look pretty ugly in most cases. < 1326460492 810838 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: It's a "sphere at infinity" with antipodal points made the same; there's a difference between (1, 0, 0, 0) and (0, 1, 0, 0) even though they're both "at infinity". < 1326460508 347596 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1326460510 128245 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :But (1, 0, 0, 0) and (-1, 0, 0, 0) are the same thing. < 1326460515 131360 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :these are problems with introducing a language feature into an existing codebase rather than problems with the feature itself. < 1326460526 147982 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1326460543 134749 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait why the fuck am i amending my answer to help this guy, their accept rate is 33% < 1326460557 558049 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: DO IT < 1326460559 973818 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I bet you didn't even LOOK at that more-notation link. < 1326460571 869788 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I've seen the more notation... < 1326460594 352417 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Yeah, but did you know it can simplify default parameter records?! < 1326460604 300874 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's almost as if it's ten different notations in one! < 1326460610 55167 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION begins writing a proposal for "not enough" notation < 1326460612 119413 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's too early to understand this < 1326460619 777052 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was there in #haskell when zzo38 first arrived < 1326460636 323328 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can thank me for that. < 1326460640 89359 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1326460654 648839 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :now i have a better understanding of all the ways Haskell is unlike INFORM 7 and Magic: the Gathering < 1326460664 303531 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Too many ways, is the answer! < 1326460739 310650 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like the projective plane is the R^2 plus one "point at infinity" for each class of parallel lines, so that the added points form a single "line at infinity". The Riemann sphere is the version where there's a plane and a single point. < 1326460792 410855 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha, that makes some sense < 1326460797 206936 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: WHAT IF YOU COULD PUT THE DEFAULT VALUES IN THE RECORD SYNTAX < 1326460809 913701 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :data REcord = { x :: Foo = YEAAAAh } < 1326460850 809507 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually < 1326460851 362177 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... GArrowSum is confusing, I don't think it lets you actually have a conditional < 1326460854 227896 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait yes it does duh < 1326460854 499456 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could have it this < 1326460863 569891 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :data REcord = { x = YEAAAAh :: Foo } < 1326460865 177138 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would be nice if you could say that the things in the record have no defaults < 1326460870 808962 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the :: could be omitted because of type inference. < 1326460873 565631 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So Record {} is a compile-time error < 1326460884 868508 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: that would be the default, sir. < 1326460894 403832 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the default is to have no defaults. :P < 1326460904 189770 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: you did not click the more notation link < 1326460911 422464 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did not < 1326460914 926329 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it involve the "more" keyword? < 1326460936 963866 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the main reason I didn't click is that gnome-terminal's link regex breaks on colons < 1326460954 922166 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so to click it I would have to actually DRAG AND DROP MY MOUSE CURSOR OVER IT AND COPY AND PASTE IT MANUALLY < 1326460957 776656 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yikes < 1326461000 556887 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sleep < 1326461059 900221 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Also the homogenous coordinates are nice because when all your vectors are normalized [x y z 1]^T vectors you can do translation (and any affine operations) by multiplying with a 4x4 matrix [x x x x; x x x x; x x x x; 0 0 0 1] to get another [x' y' z' 1]^T, so you can just concatenate sequences of translations and rotations and whatever by multiplying them all up. < 1326461338 15678 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think once I have a working implementation of portal chess I'll start working on a generic interface to define chess games with arbitrary pieces, movement rules, starting positions, etc.. and have that available as a different module. < 1326461397 726252 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-12-141.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1326461398 91958 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-12-141.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1326461398 254414 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1326461424 994240 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure but I /think/ type families would be useful for this. < 1326461427 645360 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326461442 544931 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Can't seem to find anything that'd take >13 parameters, though gluLookAt takes 9 doubles in a row (three 3-vectors), which is at least nice and uniform. < 1326461584 464000 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1326461604 427570 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1326461686 252762 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah. The "sum is denoted by ●" was one thing, but this thing-as-seen-by-evince also has limits as "N → °", and it's not talking about zero there. < 1326461697 860274 :sebbu3!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-21-4.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1326461698 82074 :sebbu3!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-21-4.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1326461698 244663 :sebbu3!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1326461701 687420 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Creator: dvipsk 5.58f Copyright 1986, 1994 Radical Eye Software < 1326461701 849559 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Producer: Acrobat Distiller Command 3.01 for Solaris 2.3 and later (SPARC) < 1326461707 316684 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Going to blame Adobe here. < 1326461855 573031 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: how do you render that white dot on white paper? < 1326461880 682445 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1326461912 499629 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: in fact all of that text is white < 1326461915 848679 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't it jujst going to be invisible? < 1326461919 77253 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1326461983 640749 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah. The "sum is denoted by 1,0●" was one thing, but this thing-as-seen-by-evince also has limits as "1,0N → °", and it's not talking about zero there. < 1326462007 578456 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oooooooh < 1326462008 628819 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I see. < 1326462011 298569 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pleasing to the eyes. < 1326462110 860006 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think type-directed name resolution isn't too terrible of an idea < 1326462112 266027 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only problem < 1326462116 969058 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it needs a better name. < 1326462134 866223 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it's playing "how many ways can we overload . ? " game < 1326462138 206618 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :+the < 1326462148 155191 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Maybe I should've s/(●|N → °)/1,0$1/g instead.) < 1326462312 438317 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1326462341 44371 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if ' weren't already an identifier character, record'field would be a good alternative to using . < 1326462342 255221 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1326462342 417925 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1326462342 418093 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok I don't know how to use it for my problem : I want somthing like this: loadfunction = do { x <- string2int getLine if( failed parsing int ) call somefunction y <- string2int getLine if( failed parsing int ) call somefunction } – user606521 10 mins ago < 1326462342 755617 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1326462344 760121 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1326462346 769892 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok I don't know how to use it for my problem : I want somthing like this: loadfunction = do { x <- string2int getLine if( failed parsing int ) call somefunction y <- string2int getLine if( failed parsing int ) call somefunction otherfunction x y } I dont know how to do it using your anserws... – user606521 2 mins ago < 1326462350 740247 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sigh* < 1326462353 314220 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Should I bother? < 1326462381 52925 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: sounds easy enough. just talk about read and catch. < 1326462405 653752 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::):):):):) < 1326462408 707360 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/8850299/catching-errors-during-string-parsing < 1326462423 964052 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 QUIT :Read error: Connection timed out < 1326462431 163320 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh... okay < 1326462443 300373 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you think about record'field for TDNR? < 1326462461 243521 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION decides not to bother. < 1326462463 226312 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: ugly < 1326462483 3886 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately all the non-ugly symbols are taken. < 1326462538 640222 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(except for, you know, all of those unicode characters) < 1326462658 861316 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I know < 1326462664 163456 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :a non-breaking space could indicate TDNR < 1326462666 625015 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1326462895 165411 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1326462901 896254 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :' is the best choice aside from . < 1326462919 720227 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it doesn't really break anything (how many people put a ' in the middle of a variable name?) and doesn't look very bad. < 1326463037 768984 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it breaks don't < 1326463053 333473 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh shit... < 1326463068 983745 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://lal0nde.deviantart.com/art/problem-sleuth-279003657 < 1326463070 34148 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this < 1326463074 200208 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this must be moddable < 1326463137 19710 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you're banned from ever naming another variable "eVal" < 1326463168 780501 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1326463170 396332 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was the guy < 1326463171 272766 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1326463191 52047 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's banned forever. < 1326463361 735060 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@C.A.McCann: How can you sleep when there's rep to be gained?! :) – ehird Jan 8 at 18:51 < 1326463361 896897 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknown command, try @list < 1326463367 933145 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :bahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha < 1326463370 388362 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ha < 1326463370 550824 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha. ha. ha ha. ha ha ha. ha ha ha ha ha. ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ...too much output! < 1326463690 987617 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://stackoverflow.com/questions/8793736/haskell-to-javascript-compilers/8793958#8793958 < 1326463698 376412 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: btw there's also Selenium bindings for Haskell. < 1326463709 698818 :Gregor`!codu@codu.org TOPIC #esoteric :Update grating, and Cheesy A! I'm Number A, not IM. | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1326463713 750849 :Gregor`!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wha < 1326463715 725322 :Gregor`!codu@codu.org NICK :Gregor < 1326463730 757571 :Gregor!codu@codu.org TOPIC #esoteric :Update grating, and Cheesy A! I'm Number A, not IM. | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1326463886 365441 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: i don't think selenium is relevant. < 1326463945 194323 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's as relevant as Ji.. < 1326463980 414297 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope. < 1326463992 177161 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might be if you make incorrect assumptions about what Ji does, though. < 1326464034 811277 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"it lets a Haskell server control a browser connected to it via AJAX." < 1326464067 506260 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I call you an idiot in T-10, T-9... < 1326464107 118386 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :This happens because you deliberately ignore people rather than, say, doing something as simple as clicking a link to clarify your impression after someone points out that you're wrong. < 1326464246 345310 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, that's why I was ignoring you. < 1326464305 838868 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, because I call you an idiot after I point out you're wrong and you continue to insist you're not rather than doing the most cursory research. < 1326464318 957332 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, selenium is always relevant. < 1326464339 739879 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I discovered how I was wrong. happy? < 1326464350 747392 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :When people who aren't me say "no, that's not related", they usually mean "You clearly know more than me about what both of these things do. Please, quote something I said back at me." < 1326464369 787815 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Sorry, I hate life and everyone and existence. < 1326464433 199918 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really see how any of what I did implied that I think I "know more about something" < 1326464447 402680 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead, I was just quoting you... to show you where I got that impression. < 1326464448 850777 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :???? < 1326464450 80670 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever < 1326464586 994306 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blargh < 1326464596 823594 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just got a terrible thought for API design < 1326465611 132598 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"it is always better to work continuously over the course of the term, rather than in discrete bursts around the time of examinations." < 1326465619 162077 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :SILLY PROFESSOR AND YOUR MATH HUMOR < 1326466178 180278 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, back < 1326466185 522529 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was a fun seminar < 1326466192 622560 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we spent a whole hour talking about call-by-name < 1326466201 385137 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then another 40 minutes after the seminar talking about product types < 1326466219 445084 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: see #nomic < 1326466464 419307 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1326466628 651290 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell ais523 can you actually talk about product types alone for 40 minutes? < 1326466628 849850 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1326467883 559874 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Carlos_segundo80.png < 1326467888 613374 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd's family tree. < 1326468087 437888 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Undirected_6_cycle.svg Phantom_Hoover's family tree < 1326468099 913900 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: especially as all discrete bursts have measure zero. < 1326468134 227763 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is also known as the Hexagon of Hoover. < 1326468274 162026 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Carlos_segundo80.png < 1326468281 688710 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Every time I see this I just grin and gawp at it. < 1326468291 89555 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like they're optimising for inbreeding. < 1326468337 583660 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the way that the guy has exactly five ancestors who weren't inbred there. < 1326468370 508465 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: (The comments on the SO question whose reddit thread I presume you found that in are really annoying.) < 1326468377 911351 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, they are. < 1326468394 86861 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This might be one of those cases where you need to ask yourself: Do I really want to make business with that guy?" INCEST IN FAMILY TREES HAS LITERALLY NEVER HAPPENED, JUST IGNORE IT < 1326468418 968166 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, in this case, the complainer /was/ a man who said he'd had two children with his daughter. < 1326468431 555307 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :A man with money to spend on family tree software!!! < 1326468435 786395 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CAPITALISM: the movie < 1326468463 906586 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"What the guy should have asked is how to handle nodes that can be reached via two or more distinct paths. Every family tree has cases like this (no exceptions)." < 1326468472 252818 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Undirected_6_cycle.svg Phantom_Hoover's family tree < 1326468474 76392 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um excuse me what do you say to Cain and Abel?? < 1326468485 267384 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :All the vertices are Phantom_Hoover. < 1326468498 167114 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1326468511 647902 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Complete_graph_K7.svg < 1326468515 143747 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott's family tree. < 1326468533 117251 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1326468650 18112 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326468704 569538 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hi < 1326468708 100446 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1326468708 616739 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. < 1326468710 309028 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid connection < 1326468728 702522 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure you can talk about product types for 40 minutes < 1326468752 177790 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :note that it was in the context of impure languages < 1326468778 703777 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in particular, we were debating the expression that in ICA would be written as "print(1);(2,3)" < 1326468804 985269 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you could write something similar in various other impure CBN languages, but there aren't a whole lot of those in existence) < 1326468825 939312 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :both in call-by-name, and in call-by-value < 1326469132 477028 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is ICA < 1326469176 704500 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Immaculate Conception Academy-Greenhills, an elite private all-girls Chinese school in Greenhills, San Juan, Metro Manila, Philippines. (Not to be confused with ICA Manila (ICAM) or ICA Dasmariñas) < 1326469218 79526 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :International Council on Archives <--- aka elliott < 1326469315 776233 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:EgyptianPtolemies2.jpg < 1326469322 250526 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd's other family tree. < 1326469357 272022 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jesus Christ, the most recent new stock in that family tree is Antiochus III. < 1326469363 958349 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :impressive pedigree < 1326469368 117878 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: idealized concurrent algol < 1326469375 84980 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, right up until Caesar and Antony. < 1326469382 624899 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also note how Antiochus III of Syria manages to birth Cleopatra I by himself < 1326469385 443001 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :impressive. < 1326469416 995319 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cleopatra VII's family were completely inbred for 5 generations. < 1326469446 361034 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even know how to interpret these family relations.... < 1326469467 671268 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also what happened to Ptolomy, the son, the sequel. < 1326469510 993596 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example what is the relationship between Ptolomey XIII and Cleopatra VII... they appear to be brother and sister twice. < 1326469536 39396 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :They married, you dolt. < 1326469545 224817 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: What is marriage but being brother and sister twice? < 1326469558 292554 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :They just didn't have any children, which is not exactly surprising given the circumstances. < 1326469572 375088 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sorry it looked strange. < 1326469583 154305 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cleopatra wasn't lined up with all the others < 1326469592 886610 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the elbow line didn't register as "marriage" at that point < 1326469612 798164 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Charles II clearly got the short end of the homozygous stick, seeing as Cleopatra isn't generally remembered as a twisted freak. < 1326469713 501671 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I was going to say "I wonder what the maximally inbred family would be like" and then I realised it's called LIFE. < 1326469715 415611 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://bisserjeta.hsara.com/2012/01/100-year-old-prostitute-still-going-strong/?article < 1326469716 282458 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :DEEP. < 1326469747 103599 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what her family tree looks like. < 1326469758 42643 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: "surrounded by prominent politicians, businessmen, lawyers and members of the clergy, all of whom were in costume to protect their identities. “I so enjoyed lapping up their warm greetings,” she beams." Somehow I doubt this is: legit. < 1326469819 830535 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? < 1326469822 324538 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see how < 1326469885 139933 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this looks like a completely legit site to me. < 1326470080 582685 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder who the audience is for this material. < 1326470114 764977 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this creepily written probably fake story about a 100-year-old prostitute. < 1326470133 600245 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is its purpose. < 1326470584 45495 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still need to play Ally Cat < 1326470596 42992 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's still on my Todo list < 1326470599 110246 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Alley Cat < 1326470612 410965 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Ally Cat, the cat is your ally. < 1326470661 235737 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am glad people take my decrees so seriously. < 1326470669 185340 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or at least I can't imagine anyone else having told Sgeo to play Alley Cat. < 1326470685 346557 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you may have been telling someone else to play Alley Cat < 1326470691 801478 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did the PC version of that thing have rather horrible PC speaker beeping. < 1326470695 660381 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it did. < 1326470697 62362 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The 10/2/2011 logs < 1326470717 577652 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(As in October 2nd, not as in February 10th) < 1326470730 952344 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in 2011-10-02. < 1326470750 313970 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :04:54:08: Sgeo|web: Play alley cat. < 1326470750 476259 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :04:54:14: FOREVERRR < 1326470750 638762 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :04:54:17: elliott: on Thursday, I will < 1326470832 10156 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is this alley cat < 1326470876 569753 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some old game < 1326470885 749543 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t runWriter < 1326470886 769240 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall w a. Writer w a -> (a, w) < 1326470894 725993 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t execWriter < 1326470895 497727 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall w a. Writer w a -> w < 1326470932 296096 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yes, it did. < 1326470941 736388 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: The BEST GAME. < 1326471038 343208 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The CGAest game. < 1326471052 857893 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t msum < 1326471053 824317 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (m :: * -> *) a. (MonadPlus m) => [m a] -> m a < 1326471219 527207 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How many lives do I have? < 1326471236 51810 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suck at games < 1326471286 184379 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'm dead. I wasn't counting, but 9 would make sense < 1326471310 621646 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1326471314 10416 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It says next to cat < 1326471330 270481 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait 'til Sgeo discovers you can JUMP IN THE WINDOWS. < 1326471338 622569 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The windows have minigames < 1326471340 291787 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1326471358 284476 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've only been in 1 window < 1326471365 706186 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's JUST like Mario Party. Almost. < 1326471415 103018 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1326471417 321062 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Without the party part. < 1326471418 646393 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Solo party. < 1326471420 306274 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a weird clicking coming from the speakers < 1326471425 238576 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1326471448 171984 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, while it tries to play the music, I don't think it is the music < 1326471455 607549 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, there's no "music". < 1326471465 288633 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's patter sounds. < 1326471484 114873 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"patter sounds"? < 1326471488 705157 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, feet. < 1326471506 159328 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Feet that play a melody with different pitches? < 1326471533 689100 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well. < 1326471547 841326 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1326471551 302987 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, that's the music. < 1326471596 879324 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, no music during gameplay, I guess, just at game over/intro screen < 1326471745 485865 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1326472069 548544 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326472100 145056 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t evalWriter < 1326472101 104942 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `evalWriter' < 1326472108 74121 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle evalWriter < 1326472108 481686 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :No results found < 1326472176 443610 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1326472289 102808 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: am I actually gaining anything by defining this Storable instance and converting square data to Word16. Wouldn't it already kind of work that way internally? < 1326472308 317321 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, no, it would be Word32 or Word64 or whatever. :P < 1326472310 253163 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :nevermind. < 1326472451 779068 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems to me that it's optimizing for space over time. < 1326473064 350545 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :better spatial locality of the vector seems to be cancelled out by using a map... < 1326473161 549846 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What? < 1326473329 711008 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t succ . fromEnum $ maxBound < 1326473330 258108 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Ambiguous type variable `a' in the constraints: < 1326473330 435371 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : `Enum a' arising from a use of `fromEnum' at :1:7-14 < 1326473330 597176 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : `Bounded a' < 1326473453 814581 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :here's a line from my IOCCC submission: echo '(find-file "./prog.c" t) (indent-region (point-min) (point-max)) (write-file "./emacs.c" t)' > reindent-prog.el < 1326473486 229189 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t fromEnum < 1326473486 452936 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my submission was specifically designed to confuse reindentors, so I decided to put a few reindentors in an optional part of the Makefile, so that it could easily be tested < 1326473486 948643 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Enum a) => a -> Int < 1326473490 970570 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1326473494 483940 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then left it in to show the judges that I wasn't afraid of them < 1326473576 154065 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, this must be some other submission to the one i saw < 1326473618 686024 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which one did you see? < 1326473628 219600 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that's part of the Makefile, not of the C code) < 1326473668 404920 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the one with a bunch of setjmps < 1326473673 674692 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe it's the same one < 1326473674 516496 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :same one < 1326473687 914735 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that one was pretty < 1326473688 570048 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think < 1326473690 237883 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> maxBound :: Just Bool < 1326473690 769298 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: type constructor or class `Just' < 1326473691 963489 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't remember what it looked like < 1326473693 730405 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I consider setjmp pretty much mandatory in obfuscated C < 1326473695 166417 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> maxBound :: Maybe Bool < 1326473695 699003 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (GHC.Enum.Bounded (Data.Maybe.Maybe GHC.Bool.Bool)) < 1326473695 860821 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : aris... < 1326473701 642262 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: each function consists of nothing but declarations < 1326473712 871257 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which are very complicated expressions, overparenthesized < 1326473723 347412 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and indented in columns, using Lisp-style indentation for each column < 1326473739 302651 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there any reason why writing an instance for (Bounded a) => Maybe a is a bad idea? < 1326473740 595983 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: can i see it :( i lost my copy :( < 1326473753 964975 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1326473754 561878 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: is minBound (Just minBound) or Nothing < 1326473761 82313 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, we're past the deadline now, so I can paste it somewhere and PM people the link < 1326473761 748140 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing, I would say. < 1326473768 300459 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I realize that's arbitrary. < 1326473770 878431 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I guess that's consistent with Maybe's Ord instance < 1326473775 205369 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1326473781 942114 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also Enum < 1326473783 743785 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you realise that there's no rule against sharing them in the first place, right? < 1326473786 782578 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it has an enum... < 1326473786 944951 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least Gregor didn't find one < 1326473790 360902 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: right, indeed < 1326473794 116536 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just it has to be your own work < 1326473795 403382 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> toEnum 0 :: Maybe True < 1326473795 933294 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: type constructor or class `True' < 1326473799 654536 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> toEnum 0 :: Maybe Bool < 1326473800 159697 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1326473800 321463 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (GHC.Enum.Enum (Data.Maybe.Maybe GHC.Bool.Bool)) < 1326473800 321620 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising... < 1326473802 624292 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh neverminde < 1326473806 118361 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just a little overprotective of it < 1326473808 782958 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :They even allow team submissions. < 1326473817 794887 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Publicly sharing is probably not wise though. < 1326473821 964616 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I think that's a change < 1326473852 634165 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int r,u,y, getchar(), putchar(), b(); < 1326473993 547684 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Now if only you could do int r, u, y, main() { ... }; < 1326473994 424377 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1326474017 316724 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that legal? it'd be awesome if it were < 1326474023 876569 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :'snot. < 1326474039 774072 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, the reason I did getchar and putchar like that rather than including stdio.h is so that I could give them the wrong number of arguments < 1326474066 200435 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is ... so useful ... for getchar and putchar ... ? < 1326474122 712490 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the extra arguments don't do anything but make the code look nicer < 1326474124 930153 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t fromEnum < 1326474125 625917 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Enum a) => a -> Int < 1326474128 7247 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's a free obfuscation < 1326474142 518399 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a () out of context in the wrong column makes people realise the code isn't meant to be read in columns) < 1326474242 122025 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: where's your submission, btw? I'm interested in seeing it now the deadline's passed < 1326474242 473110 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle asTypeOf < 1326474242 635206 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude asTypeOf :: a -> a -> a < 1326474258 345025 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'll PM < 1326474399 440940 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's an example of a type that is Bounded but not Enum. < 1326474431 835013 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, real numbers between -1 and 1? < 1326474443 42785 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, yes I suppose that counts. < 1326474456 483811 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then what would that look like in Haskell < 1326474571 387801 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Float and Double are Enum but shouldn't be. < 1326474583 202765 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But they're bounded. < 1326474586 850190 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since IEEE has -inf and +inf. < 1326474597 95503 :sebbu3!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu < 1326474605 271981 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes < 1326474639 365138 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: More generally, you can make any type bounded like < 1326474652 104247 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :data WithBounds a = MinBound | Middle a | MaxBound < 1326474657 987866 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but can't necessarily give it an Enum instance. < 1326474672 679315 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(You need `Ord a` for the Boudned instance to mean much, though.) < 1326474694 529098 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's an interesting type. < 1326474712 885483 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the "free Bounded". :p < 1326474739 988108 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION isn't sure why he didn't generalize his gross Enum code earlier... < 1326474771 95002 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I was thinking, something like that makes more sense than your WithNegInfinity and WithPosInfinity, I think < 1326474794 416427 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not nonsensical for a lower bound to be positive infinity < 1326474809 815612 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: My types were like that for a reason. < 1326474830 392998 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Namely, WithBounds didn't make sense for the usecase in question. < 1326474960 400095 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know what? less needs syntax highlighting < 1326474969 376765 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know you could just use an editor, but good editors aren't necessarily good viewers < 1326475050 221983 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://stackoverflow.com/questions/8850299/catching-errors-during-string-parsing < 1326475052 310271 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://stackoverflow.com/questions/8853896/throwing-exceptions-in-haskell-and-xderivedatatypeable < 1326475052 869249 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://stackoverflow.com/questions/8854471/io-string-and-io-data-type < 1326475055 180263 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this guy < 1326475057 659868 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh < 1326475064 493270 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: highlight foo | less -R < 1326475077 680754 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, interesting < 1326475101 929782 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where highlight = e.g. code2color < 1326475109 582716 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's an actual command highlight, it seems < 1326475113 55559 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure what engine it's based on < 1326475120 30464 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :lesspipe also has some kind of support < 1326475121 233715 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I think there's a program that does that actually called "highlight", which is why I said "highlight". < 1326475131 118050 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: right, and I found it in the repos < 1326475132 600320 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION installs it < 1326475133 419970 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It sounded generic so I wasn't sure. :-P < 1326475139 424102 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think more also does syntax highlighting, but who the fuck uses more. < 1326475143 236343 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er. < 1326475143 766541 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :most. < 1326475145 221896 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not more. < 1326475147 222101 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1326475162 250640 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope highlight's a no-op on stuff it doesn't understand < 1326475166 471570 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that case, I could just add it into l < 1326475172 871047 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :into l < 1326475179 531504 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :l is my ls-or-less program < 1326475186 7003 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that runs ls or less depending on whether you give it a directory or a file < 1326475200 81536 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aww, highlight doesn't do INTERCAL < 1326475219 795458 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you realise less has preprocessor support built in, right? < 1326475227 513222 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1326475228 847661 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :LESSOPEN < 1326475230 897586 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or w/e < 1326475242 131751 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's more annoying than anything else, as it tries to interpret .doc as Word files rather than text files < 1326475242 986875 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: be careful about -R, though; you won't want to do that on binary files < 1326475243 636740 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and errors out < 1326475247 729071 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, err, what? < 1326475252 938497 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're not talking about the same thing < 1326475256 647305 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: less foo.doc < 1326475262 62553 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :gives an error message "no catdoc available" < 1326475279 810582 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :INPUT PREPROCESSOR < 1326475279 973073 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : You may define an "input preprocessor" for less. Before less opens a file, it first gives your input preprocessor a chance to modify the way the contents < 1326475279 973245 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : of the file are displayed. An input preprocessor is simply an executable program (or shell script), which writes the contents of the file to a different < 1326475279 973350 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : file, called the replacement file. The contents of the replacement file are then displayed in place of the contents of the original file. However, it will < 1326475281 828877 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : appear to the user as if the original file is opened; that is, less will display the original filename as the name of the current file. < 1326475284 821606 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : An input preprocessor receives one command line argument, the original filename, as entered by the user. It should create the replacement file, and when < 1326475287 859774 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : finished, print the name of the replacement file to its standard output. If the input preprocessor does not output a replacement filename, less uses the < 1326475290 832551 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : original file, as normal. The input preprocessor is not called when viewing standard input. To set up an input preprocessor, set the LESSOPEN environment < 1326475293 836990 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : variable to a command line which will invoke your input preprocessor. This command line should include one occurrence of the string "%s", which will be < 1326475296 840236 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : replaced by the filename when the input preprocessor command is invoked. < 1326475298 842709 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc. < 1326475304 289611 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes, I believe it's lessopen that's responsible < 1326475314 623635 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt it, since it just executes a script you pass it... < 1326475320 427882 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/pass it/specify/ < 1326475325 967486 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ echo $LESSOPEN < 1326475327 295843 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :| /usr/bin/lesspipe %s < 1326475349 118531 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: OK, so since lesspipe does something wrong, you're saying LESSOPEN is to blame? < 1326475360 852300 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and indeed, /bin/lesspipe (=/usr/bin/lesspipe) complains on 104 < 1326475368 317903 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm saying the default value of $LESSOPEN is to blame < 1326475373 381000 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is that relevant? < 1326475373 741810 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's set to lesspipe < 1326475383 158797 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was telling you you didn't need a wrapper script to accomplish what you want < 1326475386 267839 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sheesh < 1326475393 44439 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :LESSOPEN="|highlight -qOxterm256 --force %s" seems to work. elliott: Thanks for the pointer to highlight, it seems to be an improvement over code2color. < 1326475398 205149 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, I either need to wrap less, or lesspipe < 1326475416 128982 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wtf? < 1326475420 734808 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: just do what Deewiant said < 1326475428 241683 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody forces you to pue lesspipe in that variable < 1326475430 981059 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*put < 1326475435 237695 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: np < 1326475439 42100 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, it processes gzip files < 1326475444 160418 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a useful thing for it to do < 1326475465 923840 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :LESSOPEN="| /usr/bin/lesspipe %s | highlight -qOxterm256 --force" < 1326475466 607865 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: highlight (via the libhighlight-perl bindings) is what p.zem.fi uses. < 1326475472 524522 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1326475490 75537 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you're complaining "I don't want to use LESSOPEN to accomplish this because of " < 1326475516 921419 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I don't recall seeing anything syntax highlighted on p.zem.fi. Which may just be due to the fact that I hardly ever see links to p.zem.fi, for obvious reasons. :-P < 1326475532 249928 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Is the obvious reason that Finns are blind to each other's words? < 1326475557 575074 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: It's syntax-highlighted if you add a ".foo" to it, I've sometimes pasted a link to the highlighted version. < 1326475559 249679 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The reason is that fizzie is the only one I know of who has write access to it. < 1326475605 307564 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: http://p.zem.fi/w3mimgdisplay.c < 1326475648 919285 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: You should use a content-disposition header on that .bin to set the filename correctly. < 1326475657 172827 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I note that http://p.zem.fi/w3mimgdisplay.x is ASCII but served as application/xhtml+xml < 1326475688 873922 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326475701 422728 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://p.zem.fi/w3mimgdisplay.sybase < 1326475706 344499 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Yes, I sort of forgot to handle errors there. < 1326475743 210452 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :This committee is not addressing lazy programmers. < 1326475749 338137 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1326475763 692874 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: " < 1326475763 855162 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :XXX = unsupported language: x" < 1326475766 342564 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks like error handling to me! < 1326475773 905939 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, for some values of "handling", maybe. < 1326475794 294360 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/"\n/"/ < 1326475804 744407 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops, now fizzie's line is squashed into mine. :/ < 1326475980 629356 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let _ = 2 in _ < 1326475981 154685 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Pattern syntax in expression context: _ < 1326475987 665985 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmk < 1326476088 631815 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Thinking in typeclasses is IMO the best thing to do: it's really the most Haskellish." < 1326476096 174978 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1326476096 959871 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Starting to become convinced that everyone but me is just crazy. < 1326476247 627520 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: btw, shouldn't it run less or ls | less, for consistency? < 1326476771 924991 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: 'highlight' doesn't seem to do "pass through unrecognized data" all that well. I gave it a four-megabyte binary file and it just outputs the bytes 00000000 1b 5b 33 38 3b 35 3b 30 6d 1b 5b 6d 0a |.[38;5;0m.[m.| with --force. < 1326476850 487983 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh, evidently so. < 1326476859 207405 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ highlight -qOxterm256 --force /bin/ls < 1326476859 369816 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :highlight: Undefined language definition. Use --syntax option. < 1326476859 369994 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :zsh: segmentation fault highlight -qOxterm256 --force /bin/ls < 1326476884 93078 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Personally I think it should just exec cat or something when it doesn't have a clue based on the file extension. < 1326476893 481186 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what I thought --force would do. < 1326476912 573732 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(With -q.) < 1326476913 758979 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"less /bin/ls" outputs "^?ELF^B^A^A" in blue now. < 1326476994 565730 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay! http://stackoverflow.com/users/1097181/ehird < 1326477012 589770 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Couldn't you just use || cat %s? < 1326477017 125271 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assuming you can silence errors. < 1326477038 21706 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I told it to be quiet and it still said "Undefined language definition" (and segfaulted). < 1326477088 878643 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm assuming sharing applies to typeclass constants right? < 1326477090 514709 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Evidently it says that whenever the file has no extension. < 1326477096 590877 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be silly to calculate minBound for a type multiple times. < 1326477130 256879 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: You might want to report a bug. :p < 1326477135 609706 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, 2>/dev/null and so on. < 1326477267 194872 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You're reputation is apostrophical. < 1326477272 665934 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/ELCM some code to generate Enum instances for 2-operand product types. feedback welcome. < 1326477281 948759 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, -q is just "supress progress info in batch mode" [sic], so maybe 2>/dev/null is the canonical solution. < 1326477328 278955 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Stack_Overflow#Partisanship_section_recuringly_censored_by_MICROSOFT_vendors < 1326477329 830808 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Stack_Overflow#Criticism_.28October_2011.29 < 1326477336 333668 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :TIL people on [[Talk:Stack Overflow]] are insane. < 1326477336 993202 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: It does quiet the "unknown extension" message, though. < 1326477359 925809 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION yells "MICROSOFT" every time it says "MICROSOFT". < 1326477375 25681 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"but that discussing a (much faster) Free Web server using full ANSI_C scripts is "obvious advertising" (citation missing after the user account and all its posts have been censored)." < 1326477379 609189 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is amazing :D < 1326477390 683463 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yes, that it does. In fact it seems a bit random about what it quiets and what it doesn't, based on a cursory reading of https://syntaxhighlight.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/syntaxhighlight/highlight/src/cli/main.cpp < 1326477406 872072 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, it's by the vendors of this thing, which I have seen before: http://g-wan.com/ < 1326477432 220793 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only thing I can't generalize very well is the enum instance for PieceInfo, because it's essentially all special cases... < 1326477447 247029 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You'd better be a bit careful in gaining reputation, because once you clear the 50k mark you turn into MICROSOFT C# developper [sic] and a C# book author. < 1326477454 218338 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"G-WAN (~100 KB) makes it a breeze by transparently parallelizing legacy procedural code." < 1326477456 487769 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure it does. < 1326477464 911941 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also I like how you can't select text on that site. < 1326477469 304794 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Does that mean I get money? < 1326477486 884574 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't say. < 1326477493 968950 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It sounds like money! < 1326477498 656804 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :More money than Haskell, anyway. < 1326477518 809838 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"G-WAN makes C/C++ libraries fly: < 1326477518 972280 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Developping C# though... are you sure it's worth it? < 1326477521 873281 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :#pragma link "sqlite3"" < 1326477528 113149 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :FLIGHT. < 1326477539 600805 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Well, I must be pretty good at it, if I've written books about it. < 1326477546 16834 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually I suppose that doesn't hold for an awful lot of tech books out there. < 1326477580 281001 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"so NO REFERENCE IS AVAILABLE BECAUSE OF STACKOVERFLOW CENSORSHIP." < 1326477583 547064 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's remarkably convenient. < 1326477611 659951 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You'll also start to make blattant lies. < 1326477621 829373 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"who claimed during a conflict that he is a RUBY developer while in fact he works as a C# developer." < 1326477627 807799 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I might even start programming in more than one language! < 1326477638 895044 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The fact that you are FAKING to be willing to investigate this issue is raising the question of the neutrality of Wikipedia moderators.." < 1326477642 749009 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The conspiracy, it's spreading. < 1326477661 486803 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're all MSFTies too. < 1326477667 469116 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Once you get past 50k edits... < 1326477687 169911 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You are "only an Ordinary user" -of course. With a Wikipedia "User" page and the ability to lock-up (sorry, "Protect") a page against a properly documented MICROSOFT-BIAS" < 1326477687 652440 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1326477692 125184 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :This just keeps getting better. < 1326477703 734272 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You "Ordinary users" with your Wikipedia "User" pages. < 1326477733 299320 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think he's drinking the Microsoft Kool-Aid. (Is that what you say?) < 1326477744 416611 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know about idioms. < 1326477757 920709 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And your bias in adding the notice is evident from the fact that you've added the "Criticism" the moment you were suspended from Super User. SathyaBhat (talk) 14:55, 24 October 2011 (UTC) < 1326477758 83363 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :As you list yourself as a StackOverflow moderator on your profile, I hardly consider you an unbiased source. [...] < 1326477758 245902 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not a Stack Overflow moderator. SathyaBhat (talk) 15:18, 24 October 2011 (UTC) < 1326477766 209993 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SECRET STACK OVERFLOW MODERATOR. < 1326477867 807859 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's this "Super User" thing? < 1326477877 828742 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> toEnum 256 :: Word8 < 1326477878 535465 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : *Exception: Enum.toEnum{Word8}: tag (256) is outside of bounds (0,255) < 1326477878 822195 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: It's the Third Site in the Stack Overflow Trilogy. < 1326477885 22129 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the second? < 1326477886 675230 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I swear this terminology is not made up. < 1326477890 209678 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Server Fault. < 1326477898 276323 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Server Fault is sysadmin stuff; Super User is general "computery" stuff. < 1326477913 454823 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I thought Super User was the sysadmin one. < 1326477920 543888 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay then. < 1326477951 249256 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if there's a way to automatically determine the minimal WordN type needed to represent maxBound of a type. < 1326477953 422922 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Help! Microsoft just hired me! http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Stack_Overflow&diff=471179936&oldid=469906030 < 1326477968 756389 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Represent howso? < 1326477971 556648 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bounded doesn't imply integral. < 1326477974 671097 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes. < 1326478002 229655 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: So I don't see how it makes sense. < 1326478008 898316 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm... < 1326478016 654482 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a Bounded Enum < 1326478020 66440 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about that? < 1326478036 456177 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Well, Enum only offers ->Int conversion. < 1326478041 134199 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it fits into an Int. < 1326478045 871562 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apart from wrong instances. < 1326478050 926334 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src Integer fromEnum < 1326478051 216656 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source not found. I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler. < 1326478054 446548 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wrong instances like that. < 1326478060 62138 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Fuck the Prelude.) < 1326478077 412104 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :right but you could convert it to a smaller integer type right? < 1326478092 912230 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523: btw, shouldn't it run less or ls | less, for consistency? <-- it's not about consistency, it's about convenience < 1326478093 82525 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :how would you determine the minimum at compile time. < 1326478125 52573 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is that generally an impossible thing to do because it requires runtime information (namely fromEnum (maxBound)) < 1326478131 360025 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: At compile-time? You can't, maxBounded isn't accessible at compile time; types can't depend on values, because Haskell is not Agda. < 1326478132 64231 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Hackage/Prelude "fromEnum :: a -> Int: Convert to an Int. It is implementation-dependent what fromEnum returns when applied to a value that is too large to fit in an Int." See, it can be bigger too, it just doesn't work then. < 1326478140 168583 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: IT'S IMMORAL. < 1326478154 135531 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's in YOUR oral. < 1326478167 435007 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what that meant. < 1326478176 521233 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :This channel is rated PG, man. < 1326478211 365171 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, what's responsible for printing "Segmentation fault" on a segfault? the kernel, sending to the process's stderr? to its controlling terminal? < 1326478276 412086 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash < 1326478277 457617 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: waitpid() and company return an exit status, from which the parent process (the shell) can determine that the child exited due to a segfault. Right? < 1326478277 643354 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think < 1326478287 596500 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd strongly suspect the shell, but I've never thought about it. < 1326478291 610757 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd sound the logical place. < 1326478291 773008 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel as though this Enum generator thing is probably something that someone has already done somewhere. < 1326478307 971393 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D there's a "bloomier filter" < 1326478326 689929 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Given that zsh says "zsh: segmentation fault" it'd be very unexpected if it weren't the shell. :-P < 1326478344 772913 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :do modules implicitly export typeclass instances that they import? < 1326478356 122243 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait irrelevant < 1326478402 80301 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: There is no control over importing/exporting instances. < 1326478406 527663 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instances just permeate the natural vacuum. < 1326478410 826716 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah good < 1326478412 142709 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If they can get to your code, they will. < 1326478416 497108 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what I thought < 1326478421 160744 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That's required by the open world assumption.) < 1326478422 314923 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but wasn't sure. < 1326478448 137813 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(See my answer to http://stackoverflow.com/questions/8728596/explicitly-import-instances.) < 1326478485 937250 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :maxBoundProd looks lonely without a minBoundProd. but in most cases it would just be toEnum 0 < 1326478509 357294 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it could NOT be that... I guess. < 1326478509 926225 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Please leave a space after URLs so that hyperlinkifiers get it right; thanks. < 1326478545 96475 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Your hyperlinkifier is seriously broken if it includes final dots. < 1326478557 993186 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, is incredibly ugly. :( < 1326478561 223632 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It includes the dot and the period. < 1326478569 557440 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that's a completely valid resulting URL. < 1326478574 55406 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: There's a difference between a dot and a period? < 1326478577 933566 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. < 1326478581 140434 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The dot and the bracket. < 1326478602 935490 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes, it is, but hyperlinkifiers have to extract URLs from language; there's a trade-off to be made where you must reject some valid URLs to be useful in the majority case. < 1326478615 317793 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose I could half-heartedly make an effort to enclose them in cases of ambiguity? < 1326478622 309770 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(See my answer to .) < 1326478624 220038 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :does that work? < 1326478626 660907 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/^d/D/ < 1326478630 722435 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that seems to work. < 1326478674 686939 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd rather have an inclusive linkifier and tell people to be machine-helpful when they paste URLs; it's easier to backspace characters off the end than add missing stuff, too. :-P < 1326478692 499379 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Also: < 1326478694 27060 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :[htkallas@pc112 ~]$ echo "./segfault" | bash < 1326478694 189644 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash: line 1: 24141 Segmentation fault ./segfault < 1326478694 189814 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :[htkallas@pc112 ~]$ echo "./segfault" | env LC_ALL=fi_FI.UTF-8 bash < 1326478694 189920 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash: rivi 1: 24144 Muistialueen ylitys ./segfault < 1326478710 96573 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(For some reason it won't obey LC_ALL if I give it -c "./segfault" instead.) < 1326478727 260997 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. < 1326478736 966794 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Probably it bubbles the signal up. < 1326478744 535696 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because -c is generally for non-interactive use. < 1326478852 839698 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha ha ha monomorphism restriction you're funny. < 1326478894 564258 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It looks as if it execve's ./segfault without forking if I do a simple-command -c like that. < 1326478932 628706 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :[htkallas@pc112 ~]$ LC_ALL=fi_FI.UTF-8 bash -c "./segfault" < 1326478932 829955 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Segmentation fault < 1326478932 830133 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :[htkallas@pc112 ~]$ LC_ALL=fi_FI.UTF-8 bash -c "./segfault > /dev/null" < 1326478932 830238 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash: rivi 1: 24200 Muistialueen ylitys ./segfault > /dev/null < 1326478941 842069 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it makes sense, even if it's not quite what I'd expect. < 1326478944 567935 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :File a bug report about that changing behaviour. < 1326478965 94241 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least it won't leave all those useless 'bash' processes around when people do "sh -c ..." from wherever. < 1326478984 3855 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yes, file a bug. It will, at least, be amusing to see the laughter. < 1326479051 16784 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notes that while the SO user from before was not allowed to use eVal as a variable name, it is perfectly acceptable for kallisti to do so. < 1326479058 635366 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, then I'd have to dig around the documentation first to see if it's mentioned somewhere. < 1326479070 184060 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: That's what maintainers are there for! < 1326479076 359483 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :To do that for you and yell at you about it. < 1326479237 509607 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is eVal hungarian notation? < 1326479456 248493 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no... < 1326479460 668117 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, maybe < 1326479462 792665 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is a value < 1326479463 843908 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_> < 1326479472 120463 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :According to one list, "e" is a prefix for enums. < 1326479495 783386 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it stands for "enum value" which is a shitty way of saying "the integer returned by the value in this expression that had an Enum instance and not the one that had both Enum and Bounded" < 1326479503 704481 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll let you determine which is shittier. < 1326479578 961796 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo < 1326479579 124241 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : :: (GArrow g (**3) u, < 1326479579 124441 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : GArrowDrop g (**2) b, < 1326479579 124590 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : GArrowCopy g (**) u1, < 1326479579 124686 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : GArrowCopy g (**2) b, < 1326479579 964070 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : GArrowSum g (**1) ((**2) a1 (Mu (Foo a1))), < 1326479581 967347 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : GArrowLoop g (**) u1) => < 1326479583 969383 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : g a (Mu (Foo a1)) < 1326479585 971873 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well this is going to be painful. < 1326479600 120887 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-250-3.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So much type! < 1326479609 548236 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also so full of stars. < 1326479620 528319 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The best part is that those (**2) things aren't actually valid syntax. < 1326479627 633289 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just appends numbers without thinking, to operators. < 1326479653 765607 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-250-3.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there some sort of GHC extension to make that work, or was this just written by a blithering idiot? < 1326479677 615412 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: "This" was written by the blithering idiot known as GHCi. < 1326479746 495436 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-250-3.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, classy. < 1326479908 636311 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Main> putStrLn . runHask $ foo < 1326479908 837943 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :\a -> let (b,c) = (((((\a -> (a,a)) . (Mu)) . (Foo)) . (\x -> case x of { Left y -> Left ((\_ -> ()) y); Right y -> Right y })) . (Right)) (a,c) in b < 1326479909 618714 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay! < 1326479949 484323 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t toInteger < 1326479950 182829 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Integral a) => a -> Integer < 1326479963 261399 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Behold. < 1326479992 26007 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fromEnum . succ . toInteger $ (maxBound :: Int) < 1326479993 269415 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : -9223372036854775808 < 1326479995 895910 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lolwat < 1326480016 335276 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> succ (maxBound :: Int) < 1326480017 343121 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : *Exception: Prelude.Enum.succ{Int}: tried to take `succ' of maxBound < 1326480021 4620 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 1 + (maxBound :: Int) < 1326480022 20250 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : -9223372036854775808 < 1326480025 190758 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: I simplified it for you. < 1326480033 495472 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well... yes. < 1326480053 334893 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :negative enum indexes seem... bad. < 1326480073 352128 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Not really? < 1326480080 287079 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :enum foo { MAGIC_BLAH = ~0 } < 1326480082 240268 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*}; < 1326480129 174605 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1326480136 826712 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I SAID BEHOLD. < 1326480140 652923 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I guess now that I've rewritten numOf to not assume that minBound is 0, it's less of a problem. < 1326480166 901168 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :still it makes the assumption that it's a contiguous interval (i.e. the enum doesn't only use even numbers or powers of two etc) < 1326480510 69824 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-225-44.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326480514 22640 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-250-3.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1326480660 2188 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: also are you sure that "they're used in C" is a good defense? < 1326480802 47677 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: That's what Enum is for. < 1326480804 617962 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :An enumeration of values. < 1326481215 167380 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1326481275 699557 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1326482264 454687 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1326482456 879019 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326484199 257394 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326484985 313874 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-245-162.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326485003 460819 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-225-44.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1326485055 173010 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the topological structure of the universe? < 1326485065 500855 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er rather < 1326485066 731308 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :space < 1326485072 18461 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the universe < 1326485100 689155 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I read it was some sort of mobiusy dodecahedron or something somewhere < 1326485103 479109 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also... < 1326485106 472265 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Quit: ice cream < 1326485123 721528 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :dodecahedron wat < 1326485173 803398 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shape_of_the_Universe < 1326485183 5049 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: flat < 1326485205 822777 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1326485216 859950 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: No? "The Wilkinson Microwave Anisotropy Probe (WMAP) has confirmed that the universe is flat with only a 0.5% margin of error.[1] Within the Friedmann-Lemaître-Robertson-Walker (FLRW) model, the presently most popular shape of the Universe found to fit observational data according to cosmologists is the infinite flat model,[2]" < 1326485271 474711 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a) flat isn't a topological thing, it's a differential geometric thing; b) the Poincaré dodecahedron is homeomorphic to the 3-sphere, which isn't flat. < 1326485331 771214 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a) is kind of splitting hairs, admittedly, and b) was due to a misunderstanding < 1326485349 731104 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: (a) Well, I was being liberal with my interpretation of kallisti; he tends to yell at me when I'm not. (b) Yeah, but that's just one of the models. < 1326485438 588857 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no, I mean I assumed you were following on from Ngevd. < 1326485474 312668 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1326485509 177711 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1326485509 907048 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so uh... which one is it? :P < 1326485543 850702 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Which one of what? < 1326485547 17551 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's flat. < 1326485564 246160 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"flat" isn't a topological structure is it? < 1326485580 860134 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Okay, I was too liberal. < 1326485584 971367 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Flat here means R^3. < 1326485594 882684 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. okay. < 1326485597 688387 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(With the usual topology, of course.) < 1326485632 563275 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought most scientists believe that the universe "wraps around" < 1326485635 839475 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/16/World_line.svg I like how this is indistinguishable from pseudoscience. < 1326485641 518030 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: You thought wrong. < 1326485652 378287 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Also, it's not like you could ever find out, to my understanding. < 1326485655 650438 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. there is no way to reach the edge. < 1326485690 139306 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could find out, at least through application of the Copernican principle and measurement of the large-scale curvature. < 1326485767 680875 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, OK, but I mean "you couldn't actually do it". < 1326485848 772647 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326485851 238113 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1326485892 902121 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose it's entirely possible for the universe to be expanding and also infinite, given that the "expanding universe" thing technically means something more like "the distance between two parts of the universe grows over time" and less "lol it's finite and expanding into nothingness" < 1326485921 146092 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-245-162.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1326485921 308129 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-220-131.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326486113 968117 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm. so enumerating an arbitrary product type is actually kind of like a mixed radix numeral system. < 1326486170 643555 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1326486204 168252 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I were to extend my code to product types with 3 operands I would be adding a "digit" whose base is multiplied by a power of two. < 1326486420 47629 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: projectable product types, or patternmatchable product types? < 1326486431 833551 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know the difference. "Haskell product types" :P < 1326486442 706643 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell's pure, so it doesn't matter ther < 1326486442 868658 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so probably the latter/ < 1326486444 173740 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*there < 1326486446 351831 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. < 1326486489 831699 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/Gcbh this is the 2-operand case. you can see how it looks like a 2-digit numeral system. < 1326486494 69879 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :with mixed radix. < 1326486498 822598 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not going to spend 40 minutes discussing product types with someone and then not /use/ the resulting knowledge < 1326486511 883181 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1326486526 532701 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically in fromEnumProd is where you can see the mixed radix. < 1326486578 991660 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :numOf b returns the total number of elements of b's type. numOf True would return 2. < 1326486596 310691 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it makes some assumptions about how the Enum instance is defined) < 1326486601 950722 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : I suppose it's entirely possible for the universe to be expanding and also infinite, given that the "expanding universe" thing technically means something more like "the distance between two parts of the universe grows over time" and less "lol it's finite and expanding into nothingness" < 1326486616 779905 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is precisely the current scientific consensus. < 1326486658 173828 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh good. < 1326486660 936025 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Eventually we're going to need big magnets to keep everything close enough. < 1326486680 455022 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :does this mean I'm actually increasing in volume? :P < 1326486708 172276 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so < 1326486709 100423 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it's possible to stop it; one of the scenarios for the end of the universe is the expansion overwhelming all binding forces and ripping every particle into its constituents. < 1326486711 88376 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, no. < 1326486733 533356 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The bonds holding you together are slightly strained by the expansion, but they aren't pulled apart. < 1326486751 326647 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't sound like an "end of the universe" but just "an end of matter as we know it" < 1326486802 216694 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION isn't sure how to write the inverse function for an n-operand product type... < 1326486811 915746 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I could define an applicative? maybe < 1326486909 697262 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need a way to take an integer and a constructor with any number of arguments and fill all of its fields with values. < 1326486941 498143 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :every field needs to be Bounded and Enum, except for the last one, which can be just Enum. < 1326486981 245524 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait no they all need to be Bounded I think. < 1326486997 249854 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : I don't think it's possible to stop it; one of the scenarios for the end of the universe is the expansion overwhelming all binding forces and ripping every particle into its constituents. < 1326487003 503022 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Excuse me are you suggesting magnets will get less powerful. < 1326487008 86391 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Also I know that you dolt.) < 1326487013 462144 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yyyyes. < 1326487059 911066 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: But what will ICP do? < 1326487204 379335 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Also couldn't you just use a really really dense powerful magnet. < 1326487211 26395 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :We just need to keep creating larger magnet galaxies. < 1326487254 618828 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes this is exactly like a mixed radix numeral system. shocking. < 1326487434 717444 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: see also instance Ix for tuples < 1326487649 440825 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's pretty difficult to read.. < 1326487659 749609 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src (,) index < 1326487660 82723 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source not found. The more you drive -- the dumber you get. < 1326487661 757828 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src (,) range < 1326487662 26064 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source not found. There are some things that I just don't know. < 1326487662 811860 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmph < 1326487673 62528 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't it be nice if @src actually worked. < 1326487675 777871 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.haskell.org/ghc/docs/6.12.2/html/libraries/base-4.2.0.1/src/GHC-Arr.html#Ix < 1326487705 190293 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: "6.12.2" < 1326487713 559873 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever < 1326487737 342003 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not immensely likely to have changed < 1326487758 254 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: considering that the latest docs do _not_ include ghc.arr... < 1326487768 703546 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :O KAY < 1326487771 785811 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :though http://www.haskell.org/ghc/docs/latest/html/libraries/base/src/GHC-Arr.html works < 1326487782 716036 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: if you keep replying to everything with O KAY it'll become annoying :P < 1326487791 214254 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :O KAY < 1326487798 87323 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cough < 1326487807 724861 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no, not the coughing < 1326487994 675154 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am GOING TO READ A BOOK. < 1326487996 814361 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :MADE OF PAPER < 1326488003 234050 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOOK AT ME BEING ALL LOW TECH < 1326488142 738434 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Have I told you about how we don't have electricity in Hexham? < 1326488148 195377 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linear algebra is not as boring as I'd thought. < 1326488150 498473 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: What's the book. < 1326488163 108358 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Girl with the Dragon Tatyoo < 1326488166 538334 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tatyoo. < 1326488173 58027 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was a ytpo < 1326488185 569002 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oaky < 1326488281 512981 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also read the books made of paper, when resting in bed < 1326488297 981107 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: What are the books made out of in Edinburgh? < 1326488305 56281 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This book is set in Sweden. < 1326488316 123524 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Raw abstraction. < 1326488327 580265 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I understand there is at least one person who lives in Sweden who frequents this channel < 1326488338 115673 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: Yes, and he's terrible. < 1326488351 492411 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, maybe he's the killer! < 1326488362 118751 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: it's originally in swedish, yes < 1326488364 724595 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dammit, elliott, you've ruined the ending for me! < 1326488383 94825 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Just like you. < 1326488420 606607 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: jag fattar inte vad du pratar om < 1326488429 824588 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: in that chess server program you were talking about a long time ago, does the server randomly select who's black and white? < 1326488468 497041 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: "You're fat, also bad; do you pratar om?" < 1326488484 433428 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Free Internet Chess Server? I do not remember now, but I think there is an option to do that but it does not always do that < 1326488503 901803 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hey i cannot disagree with you making a translation that insults you < 1326488507 977256 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: the way I see it working is you choose a preference. < 1326488513 610637 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :either white, black, or no preference < 1326488515 193295 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or < 1326488523 816837 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if there's a ranking system, then unfavored players are given white. < 1326488526 50039 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: That does make sense is one way < 1326488536 853094 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or some mix of the two. < 1326488540 685232 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think, choose the preference. < 1326488557 155614 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326488568 468910 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. a ranking gsystem implies a) an actual userbase b) a consistent set of rules < 1326488571 494998 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :of which I have neither. < 1326488589 246724 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :now if there were a tournament, with a consistent set of rules between each game, then a ranking system would be reasonable. < 1326488591 196572 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly in case both player preference, players with lower ranking preference override, but in general you match up such that preferences agree instead of conflict so you do not have to use the rankings < 1326488612 423006 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes that sounds good. < 1326488742 667539 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the preference should be indicated as part of the standard "greeting" between a client and server. < 1326488787 984424 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is 2.4 million kronor a lot? < 1326488821 65854 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: So wait, is everything in Edinburgh made out of raw abstraction? < 1326488826 642921 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Do you want to play [f]irst, [s]econd, or [n]o preference?" < 1326488835 46856 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes. < 1326488843 888405 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: What about the sandstone? < 1326488845 954447 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :How else do you think a Phantom_Hoover such as myself could live there. < 1326488856 1575 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, raw abstraction and sandstone. < 1326488874 864830 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Ah. < 1326488887 556381 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I forget, are you a hoover that hoovs phantoms or a hoover that is a phantom? < 1326488888 426604 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sandstone is a very good abstract building material. < 1326488893 328758 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I always forget. < 1326488899 436482 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A hoover that is phantom. < 1326488907 194220 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I don't really know if I intend to set it up that way. perhaps. < 1326488917 684154 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a Taneb who is a Ngevd who is about to leave < 1326488918 770622 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Quit: Goodbye < 1326488925 351014 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I really hope you one day use the name Phantom Hoover in an official capacity and get sued by the Hoover company. < 1326488929 255646 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, elliott Phantom_Hoover darnnit Ngevd left update < 1326488933 936578 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who else? < 1326488935 764901 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Wait why don't you change your name to Phantom Hoover, it's way more pronouncable. < 1326488948 575398 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I do want it to be text-based in a way that allows you to connect through telnet. or a simple text-based client that memorizes settings for you, so that you can automate any kind of client-server greeting < 1326488960 524830 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: You LIED to me. < 1326488970 602778 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what? < 1326488990 825229 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy < 1326489001 557453 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: so there would be a prefer command. if you don't send a prefer command then it defaults to no preference. < 1326489006 455887 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Write error: Connection reset by peer < 1326489006 621269 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, my name was Phantom_Hoover until IRC ruined it. < 1326489006 621447 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cf. the wiki. < 1326489013 449453 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1326489017 431294 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: other settings would work similarly. for example, there are a number of rule preferences you can make. < 1326489029 798047 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326489033 33472 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326489033 195244 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Write error: Broken pipe < 1326489038 477038 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523 < 1326489076 879102 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I don't think monqy wants to be on my list? < 1326489078 959840 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may be wrong < 1326489087 802647 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should make a macro or something < 1326489101 408899 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, i want him to suffer < 1326489110 528405 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott, my name was Phantom_Hoover until IRC ruined it. < 1326489113 946569 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I meant your IRL name? < 1326489126 284327 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: There was no update. < 1326489135 449010 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because everyone would give me funny looks. < 1326489137 141767 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, there was. < 1326489148 262975 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes there was, unless you checked like two seconds before I announced and read it already < 1326489156 64496 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, there it is. < 1326489164 650882 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Dude, you're called Ahamhmahnahmnhahhnahanin McCuil. < 1326489170 821725 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Your funny lookage would *decrease*. < 1326489186 109146 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I don't actually recall saying you could disclose that in the channel. < 1326489218 793784 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: (a) I spelled it terribly (b) Dude it was originally in the channel. < 1326489234 27863 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's also been in the channel multiple times since originally being in the channel? < 1326489261 305871 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still don't recall saying that. < 1326489283 902855 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-04-15.txt:08:55:14: -!- Phantom_Hoover is now known as A_McCuil. < 1326489296 895061 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Humm. < 1326489308 165104 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :First occurrence of "McCuil" (case insensitive) 2010 onwards. < 1326489382 361906 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Other reasons to change your name to Phantom Hoover: You'll no longer be named after a crappy search engine. < 1326489396 213717 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cuil was not crappy. < 1326489420 64147 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: OK, *innovative search engine < 1326489430 388559 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I see that you bothered. < 1326489433 233083 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Innovative in areas such as, for example, not returning relevant results. < 1326489444 257896 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I was running close to the cap and wanted accept rep. < 1326489453 168164 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: :( < 1326489454 882166 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the innovation has been around since long before. < 1326489455 44025 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It did, however, produce extremely entertaining results. < 1326489457 348140 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*that < 1326489459 196612 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326489462 148871 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1326489481 398609 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It didn't get you where you meant to go, but where you secretly wanted to go, and is that not the greater journey. < 1326489486 443988 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION recalls cuils are very abstract < 1326489494 348177 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: FWIW I'm happy not to mention the string that is approximately 100x too ridiculous to be your name in-channel if you don't want me to. < 1326489498 688752 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: How quickly did you read. < 1326489501 340418 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: 2.4 million Swedish kronor = 223 598.928 British pounds < 1326489506 410816 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not quickly enough < 1326489509 208722 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Also, slapping B-coloured paint on A, etc. < 1326489516 803408 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, hmm... I could do with that amount of money < 1326489546 209749 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let (a, a) = (2,2) in a < 1326489546 738832 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Conflicting definitions for `a' < 1326489546 913160 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Bound at: :1:5 < 1326489547 74999 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : let (a, _) = (2, 2) in _ < 1326489581 22102 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Pattern syntax in expression context: _ < 1326489581 228200 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :get back to < 1326489581 690665 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Go back to. < 1326489590 788286 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: That would be indistinguishable from SO. < 1326489603 111212 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I think you underestimate me. < 1326489610 100133 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, in a, not in _ < 1326489613 408288 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm trying to think of a situation where such a thing would be useful. < 1326489624 839906 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The goal would be to see how long you could last before going *actually* insane. < 1326489629 869638 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't think it would be too difficult to implement would it? < 1326489636 753467 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: What do you want this to do, exactly? Compare with (==)? < 1326489648 361380 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever case does. < 1326489658 333499 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, you don't want structural equality. < 1326489664 947639 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if a is a function? < 1326489687 905534 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if a is a Set, and you have two equivalent sets that are represented using different trees? < 1326489689 613337 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let f id = 5 in f id < 1326489690 508869 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 5 < 1326489693 540751 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :! < 1326489696 320615 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I... don't know. < 1326489702 341413 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if a is a data structure that has cycles in it? < 1326489704 678927 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How... what < 1326489708 792838 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess Eq would work, but maybe isn't the best way? < 1326489716 349213 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let f q = 5 in f id < 1326489716 902451 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let f id = 5 in f (id . id) < 1326489717 460978 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 5 < 1326489717 812989 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 5 < 1326489727 678604 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let f id = 5 in f undefined < 1326489728 534201 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 5 < 1326489734 329793 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: The best way is probably not to do it. < 1326489734 699316 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1326489753 314562 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...oh < 1326489753 476579 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t let f id = 5 in f < 1326489754 365143 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall t t1. (Num t1) => t -> t1 < 1326489761 580361 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION suddenly sees the obvious < 1326489766 175108 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Before the type) < 1326489782 284 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Before the type, all IRC users are equal. < 1326489811 524502 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let num = (1::Int) in let f num = num in f 2 < 1326489812 243534 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am great confused waht tpye < 1326489812 449894 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 2 < 1326489844 310084 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess there's no way to make the pattern thing see variables outside the pattern, nor any meaning towards trying to do so < 1326489869 62529 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :correct < 1326489978 147814 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : > let f id = 5 in f id < 1326489978 309724 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : 5 < 1326489978 309911 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : ! < 1326489978 681744 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : How... what < 1326489994 117764 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :On this day elliott died by putting his palm on his face so hard that it went straight through. < 1326490031 14883 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hi now is the time where you have an opportunity to talk me out of using a monad transformer. < 1326490035 56007 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I managed to trick myself into thinking it was magically pattern matching on the function known as id < 1326490052 436353 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no TOPIC #esoteric :Scottish clan invades Hexham, demands apology for calling their name "ridiculous" | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1326490063 439845 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: You're stupid and dumb and your code sucks and I hate you. < 1326490065 830667 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, *monad* transformer. < 1326490071 15278 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, shachaf doesn't like them. < 1326490085 25419 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, why do you not like monad transformers. < 1326490094 522487 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're like burrito transformers! < 1326490099 647972 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Unfortunately they're made out of pure abstraction and thus pass right through normal matter. < 1326490107 69158 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let f (\x -> x) = 5 in f id < 1326490107 689288 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :They turn burritos into spacesuits containing toxic waste. < 1326490107 978957 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : : Parse error in pattern < 1326490108 904680 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I don't like them either, if that means anything to you. < 1326490151 681136 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh dear, the Scottish clan is invading Hexham again < 1326490159 693923 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't forget to burn the Abbey! < 1326490170 662972 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you shouldn't underestimate their sandstone ballistas < 1326490178 196437 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I will make use of both IO and State. I will begin coding with both monads seperate and see if I ever need them at the same time. < 1326490192 696111 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or if I can avoid doing so altogether < 1326490200 410077 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, we will abstract burn them. < 1326490201 443900 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: do you not understand what was happening < 1326490216 308517 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yes, so they'll be abstractly burned but not concretely. < 1326490220 447489 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I don't know much about them; I'm interested in what's wrong with them? < 1326490227 139580 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Monad transformers, that is. < 1326490229 494376 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy, I figured it out < 1326490239 375724 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Sgeo suddenly sees the obvious < 1326490254 236641 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: They don't compose well. < 1326490263 493071 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :id in f id = was just a variable in the pattern to be assigned to whatever the argument was < 1326490297 502614 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: The order you apply transformers in can have often confusing changes to the semantics; also, there's no real unified "theory" or definition of monad transformers. They're just things that turn Monad instances into other Monad instances where you can lift actions of the inner Monad in. < 1326490298 420075 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let 2 + 2 = text "~the wonders of shadowing~" in 2 + 2 < 1326490299 408274 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ~the wonders of shadowing~ < 1326490310 672280 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: That sounsd specific, but in reality it means that monad transformers can pretty much do anything. < 1326490319 648609 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no, I get what you mean. < 1326490322 175938 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :When turning a monad into its transformer, there's no mechanical rule for telling where you layer on the "m"s. < 1326490348 336769 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :As far as operational concerns go, they can be pretty damn slow, because every single bind you perform has to go through N layers of wrapping. < 1326490361 991033 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, there's a RWST that's just ReaderT, WriterT, and StateT bundled together for performance. < 1326490381 460232 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not entirely sure I understand the purpose of RWS < 1326490384 215664 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I guess "convenience" too, but it could just be a type synonym if that was the real reason.) < 1326490392 905331 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems that State works well for all three of these things. < 1326490403 607528 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Yes, and you can write all your code in IO, too. < 1326490413 377243 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Using State for all of those is great, because you can write to your read-only state! < 1326490418 247917 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And reverse your monoidal accumulator. < 1326490420 734959 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :MONAD TRANSFORMERS R DUM < 1326490422 733742 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's why. < 1326490426 905236 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION QED < 1326490436 929309 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I think Phantom_Hoover will find your criticism tau times as convincing as mine. < 1326490443 430422 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/sounsd/sounds/ < 1326490446 11025 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So basically, needing to learn new semantics for each monad transformer independent of the semantics of the monad? < 1326490448 240077 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/}/ }/ way up < 1326490464 473591 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Well, no, what they do is usually intuitively obvious. < 1326490467 759972 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not saying much, though. < 1326490474 57730 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, yeah, and it's really hard to "combine" monad transformer stacks. < 1326490478 533995 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You pretty much have to define one stack and stick to it. < 1326490493 179421 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't say "this code needs , this other code needs , and this code uses both the previous codes". < 1326490497 445623 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: So at least one of our criticisms was irrational. < 1326490504 353915 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least not without a LOT of threading stuff manually to run it all. < 1326490509 539610 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Quit: Goodbye < 1326490510 224503 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait, you're giving actual justifications. < 1326490511 246283 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :what we need is a monad transformer zipper! < 1326490552 137901 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: FWIW my current favourite solution to the problem of composable effects is http://math.andrej.com/2010/09/27/programming-with-effects-ii-introducing-eff/, which I especially like because there's no leap of syntax from pure code to an effect. < 1326490560 475802 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :With Haskell you need to, at the very least, interleave <$> and <*> everywhere. < 1326490564 796581 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hey that's what Monad* classes are for < 1326490574 287444 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION considers what he could possibly use RWS for in his portal chess implementation. < 1326490587 931400 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :writer could be used for a log.... but, do I need one of those? < 1326490590 668844 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yeah, and you can't define context synonyms, so all your method signatures are 10x larger! \o/ < 1326490606 30013 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Also, if the compiler doesn't inline it away, you get to pass around a hundred typeclass dictionaries everywhere! < 1326490613 298636 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/method signatures/definition signatures/ < 1326490626 766096 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Oh, and you can't have two pieces of state in the same stack. < 1326490635 426506 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's just not allowed. Everyone only needs one piece of state. < 1326490664 214613 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hmm? Surely you can if you drop the convenience of MonadState? < 1326490675 135276 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: < 1326490680 397255 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Oh, yeah, and it's really hard to "combine" monad transformer stacks. < 1326490680 559441 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : You pretty much have to define one stack and stick to it. < 1326490680 559614 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : You can't say "this code needs , this other code needs , and this code uses both the previous codes". < 1326490680 721452 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : At least not without a LOT of threading stuff manually to run it all. < 1326490683 464432 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: hey that's what Monad* classes are for < 1326490693 838123 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I BET YOU'RE NOT EVEN READING THAT < 1326490713 799066 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was reading, does that count?? < 1326490714 887450 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Phantom_Hoover thinks this was far too concrete for an abstraction < 1326490715 592438 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: You should read it too, unless you did since I told you ages ago. < 1326490754 820523 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's with the def and nonsense? < 1326490779 744382 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tastes like... ML? < 1326490786 79568 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if Valve will hunt me down if I make advertisement money off of portal chess. :P < 1326490796 857769 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: just name it something other than portals < 1326490800 665435 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Well, it's not like you can do mutually-recursive definitions any other way at a REPL. < 1326490804 529211 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Read what? "introducting eff"? < 1326490805 639812 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yes, the authors are ML people. < 1326490813 682374 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Yes. I told you to the last time monad transformers came up. < 1326490819 87857 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's in my list-of-things-that-I'll-ostensibly-read-someday! < 1326490825 829737 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't that enough for you, elliott? < 1326490832 977053 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I had an INTERCAL REPL idea that each line you wrote would append to a program < 1326490836 72864 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: NO READ NOW. < 1326490837 895531 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are only about a hundred other tabs in that list! < 1326490844 480893 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: It's like 3 pages long, dude < 1326490845 952245 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it'd rerun the program from scratch each time, discarding any output that was the same as last time < 1326490846 182675 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :DUDE. < 1326490848 663797 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: heh < 1326490851 276021 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that way, even COME FROM would work properly < 1326490887 215745 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Fine, I'll move it to the end of that list. < 1326490892 50013 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I always start from the end. < 1326490907 362572 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: OK, and then start now. < 1326490915 727437 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION should probably wake up now. < 1326490933 759094 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :alles hat ein ende nur die wurst hat zwei < 1326490973 744572 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: In an emergency situation, could you crudely fashion an antistatic wristband by crouching on a computer case? < 1326490995 522524 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: depends on if the case is earthed < 1326491005 936223 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which it probably will be if it's made of metal, not painted, and plugged in < 1326491009 669839 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 and 3 are likely, 2 may not be < 1326491012 836835 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :liftCatch :: (m (a, s, w) -> (e -> m (a, s, w)) -> m (a, s, w)) -> RWST l w s m a -> (e -> RWST l w s m a) -> RWST l w s m a < 1326491015 863414 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmmmmm < 1326491019 501312 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the paint would make the outside not earthed, although the inside would be) < 1326491044 974746 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: thanks, I'll let my supernatural vacuum cleaner friend know < 1326491050 887364 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :earth tone painting < 1326491073 441995 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: this is a really bizarre question, anyway < 1326491082 261290 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a good emergency antistatic wristband is water pipes, anyway < 1326491084 671200 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, TPB are switching to magnet links exclusively < 1326491089 898143 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're often unpainted, and quite commonly found around houses < 1326491115 388184 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Often'? < 1326491123 716698 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I've ever seen painted water pipe— oh wait you don't mean taps. < 1326491132 633523 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I used a tap to assuage my paranoia.) < 1326491133 713514 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and pretty much every house has their entire water supply system earthed because it saves on money for earth wires < 1326491145 713608 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover/tap otp < 1326491149 766597 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, on the flip side, sometimes taps are made of plastic < 1326491178 724937 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no, I'd have to be one of those hoovers that works with water (these are a thing apparently, it said so on Postman Pat once). < 1326491192 848999 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I think we actually own one < 1326491201 718082 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :haven't used it in years, though < 1326491204 266263 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Reference 1. Postman Pat < 1326491218 909858 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: my aunt has one < 1326491227 745272 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :used it occasionally to wash the carpet, rather than just vacuum-clean it < 1326491245 986482 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You're missing out on #haskell < 1326491261 402374 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : okay.. i solved the problem.. but it really makes me think that haskell is dead slow. when it was taking more than 20 minutes.. i thought i made a mistake somwhere.. but that doesn't seem to be the case.. after 20 minutes my code gav me the right answer..which leads me to believe that my code was correct..but haskell was dead slow.. < 1326491267 984112 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : 20 minutes is simply inexcusable < 1326491299 713594 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is carpi for real < 1326491414 684380 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : koeien: could you please tell me why do you recommend data.set? what aspect of the problem makes you think that using data.set would make it run faster? < 1326491415 833639 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if I use Lazy RWS, this means I can call runRWS and get things like i.e. infinite lists of output to pass to channels/sockets/filehandles etc < 1326491424 610084 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :right? < 1326491458 640083 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Did you suggest -O2? < 1326491462 502191 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did anyone suggest -O2? < 1326491462 952479 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I used strict RWS I would want to add IO to the stack. < 1326491465 839783 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet carpi is running in GHCi. < 1326491489 35043 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes oxygen is generally helpful when problem solving. < 1326491491 720330 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ghci -O2 is the obvious answer. < 1326491498 841059 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Don't use lazy input. < 1326491511 307531 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Come on, you have to suggest -O2, it hurts me inside. < 1326491530 191056 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: okay, so then I don't want to use lazy RWS, because I'm pretty sure I'd want lazy input. < 1326491531 538099 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Why don't you suggest it? < 1326491567 581141 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:36:01 carpi: think of 'main' as a function that produces a list of things the runtime has to do, like write a file, read stdin etc. < 1326491567 743280 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:36:43 carpi: the things the runtime does for you is stuff that gets "executed" < 1326491567 743451 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:38:40 and by runtime are you referring to the part where actions are performed by systems outside haskell on behalf of haskell? < 1326491567 743556 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:39:47 carpi: the RTS < 1326491568 586470 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:42:57 ah okay.. i googled RTS for haskell.. seems like its an option for ghc where i can tweak the environment in which the haskell code can run. This is exciting..so it means i can make code more faster this way < 1326491578 193989 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Because I'd join and go "HI, SHACHAF PASTD ME LOGS TO MOCK YOU, USE -O2" and no. < 1326491583 963598 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: or are you saying /in general/ not to use lazy input? < 1326491591 595896 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: In general. < 1326491596 378073 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Hey, I wasn't *mocking*! I was sharing. < 1326491620 829601 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ...really? < 1326491624 140175 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Unless you want space leaks, resource allocation problems, unpredictable performance, ... < 1326491627 640152 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION imagines it: * elliott has join #haskell USE -O2! WHY ISN'T ANYONE TALKING ABOUT -O2??? SOMEONE MENTION -O2, YOU USELESS CHANNEL! * elliott has left #haskell [RAGE] < 1326491631 828079 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :... difficult-to-debug IO problems ... < 1326491651 783707 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so you mean lazy input is a bad idea for programs that are moderately complicated. < 1326491660 476000 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but okay for simple things. < 1326491675 635897 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: No. < 1326491685 599249 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-220-131.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lazy IO is "good" for the following: trivial examples. < 1326491685 942203 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lazy input is useful only for toy hacks. < 1326491699 526606 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. programs you will run less than 5 times ever. < 1326491702 219632 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see. < 1326491710 636687 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, I suppose, programs that are thiny-veiled wrappers over a trivial pure function. < 1326491715 82232 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Nonsense. < 1326491725 19186 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also the second thing you mentioned. < 1326491734 524789 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And probably there are other justified uses for lazy I/O. < 1326491734 839598 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: and here I thought lazy input was something that made Haskell awesome to use. :P < 1326491754 116391 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Well, "interactive multi-user network server" isn't one. < 1326491781 840111 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :who cares about multiple users anyway < 1326491785 755376 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: You might like enumerators or conduits or whatever, since they were designed to offer the convenience of lazy IO without the problems. < 1326491801 587625 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :They don't really succeed at the convenience part, but I hear the problems they have are new and specific to their solutions. < 1326491841 753921 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm guessing they generalize to many different sources of IO? i.e. sockets, filehandles, concurrent channels < 1326491848 761514 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: 13:10:18 koeien: yea in ghci < 1326491850 513691 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Told you. < 1326491861 633218 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Yes, although in GHC sockets are Handles. < 1326491868 995155 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Yes, there's the lower-level interface, but you almost never need to use it.) < 1326491870 658964 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh that's right. < 1326491895 416742 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Conduits are the hip new thing, but I have a predisposed bias against them. On the other hand, enumerator is possibly even more overcomplicated, so... < 1326491896 771330 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm pretty sure Haskell is just dead slow. < 1326491907 684602 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: What bias? < 1326491915 388506 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Conduits are better at the resource management thing, anyway. < 1326491916 765392 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what about things like.... a simple recursive loop. < 1326491927 554934 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Well, I don't like them. :p < 1326491932 804934 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Why not? :-P < 1326491943 695032 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: They use mutable references to maintain basic internal state, for one. < 1326491965 110255 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just because their interface is basically "stateless" but, hey, they run in ST or IO, so let's just use refs! < 1326492018 833949 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, they seem very much "engineer-designed", in that there's no coherent underlying semantics or theory at all, there's just a bunch of types that usually have too many members and appear to be essentially "ad-hoc" OOP-ish object records where more things were added on to accomplish additional needs like resource management. < 1326492039 147991 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which works, sure, but is bad news for something so "basic" and underlying as stream processing. < 1326492048 215340 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, "quotes". < 1326492060 568766 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alright. < 1326492111 902199 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Anyway, not necessarily that enumerator or anything seems any more coherently designed, but at least there's good signs like functions, simple ADTs, use of closures to maintain internal state, etc. < 1326492145 529932 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: a simple glance at the top-level module for both enumerator and conduit suggests that enumerator is conceptually simpler. < 1326492159 900338 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Mostly I think that we're close enough to coming up with a consistent and simple underpinning for iteratees that throwing everything away to start afresh right before that happens is a waste. < 1326492169 31083 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: I suspect people will begin abandoning enumerator in droves. < 1326492175 488510 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Anyway, enumerator is painful to use in practice. < 1326492187 659239 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Largely because there's about 10 composition operators and you usually just have to guess which one you need. < 1326492212 272551 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/conduit/0.0.3/doc/html/Data-Conduit.html#g:5 -- at least conduit's are simple. < 1326492230 481727 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's many more types though. I don't really know where to start. < 1326492288 744863 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :SourceResult is simple enough. :P < 1326492291 689852 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: < 1326492295 44964 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.yesodweb.com/blog/2011/12/resourcet < 1326492295 659916 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.yesodweb.com/blog/2011/12/conduits < 1326492300 104045 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.yesodweb.com/blog/2011/12/conduits-sink < 1326492305 828257 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.yesodweb.com/blog/2012/01/conduits-conduits < 1326492307 467897 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.yesodweb.com/blog/2012/01/conduits-buffering < 1326492313 900567 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the blog post series they were introduced in that just concluded. < 1326492363 610171 :NihilistDandy!~NihilistD@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326492401 791111 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm glad to hear that the conduit's are out of the bag. < 1326492436 512525 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: conduit's [composition operators]. < 1326492444 606133 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1326492450 258761 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what I get for not reading context. < 1326492462 606028 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION should probably just leave IRC. < 1326492466 602000 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :At this rate. < 1326492731 360120 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah internet damages your brain, you hear. < 1326493433 206331 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I sure am learning a lot about how to abstract ResourceT to non-IO monads! < 1326493468 42257 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, next time I won't link you the material presented introducing an abstraction you find confusing. < 1326493512 959500 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh no it's useful material I'm just drudging through it waiting for the punchline. < 1326493532 242658 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the probably three or four functions I need) < 1326493549 419767 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: If you're writing a network server, you'll probably need more than that. < 1326493566 383748 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming I have an actual need to scale, yes. a good assumption to make. < 1326493704 9372 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :psh, you mean resourceT can only have (maxBound :: Int) registered actions!? < 1326493745 193265 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: OK. Yes, it could just be a "prefer" command, so you can connect using telnet or MUD client or whatever, and if a graphical client is used it can be a menu. < 1326493753 543463 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yep < 1326493767 194313 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the actual syntax I'll work out later. < 1326493778 837075 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :as "prefer" could be many different kinds of preferences. < 1326493785 4808 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :regarding player color and rule set. < 1326493792 861358 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and possibly other unforseen options. < 1326493848 761486 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha, I figured out what my reader data is. :P < 1326493908 183039 :_Slereah!~butt@ANantes-259-1-252-161.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1326494142 130530 :_Slereah!~butt@ANantes-259-1-252-161.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1326494177 62358 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1326494313 761533 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Yes, you can have those kind of option too, I suppose. And then "help prefer" lists the available preferences (a graphical client can simply list all of them on a menu). < 1326494349 383460 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such as, "prefer color black" to set the preference for playing black, and "prefer -color" to unset that preference. < 1326494502 476010 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes something along those lines. < 1326494599 192383 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: okay now that I've stubmled through the ResourceT article the actual conduit article itself is significantly less painful. < 1326494615 567296 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :While "prefer" by itself should probably display the current settings. < 1326494753 137044 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: *articles < 1326495149 860224 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it appears that $= =$= and =$ have considerable variation in the ways you can equivalently piece sources/conduits/sinks together. < 1326495193 155890 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just (a $= b =$= c =$= d =$ e), isn't it? < 1326495199 714605 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. you only use ($=) and (=$) at the end-points. < 1326495230 725741 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, if I'm understanding correctly you could could continue to use them until the midpoints < 1326495237 692295 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Is lambda l or h, I forget. < 1326495255 580909 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: That's just (f . g . h $ x) vs. (f $ g $ h $ x), isn't it? < 1326495258 785837 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, l. < 1326495279 905279 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes. < 1326495283 496496 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: thx < 1326495322 91257 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's just a question of how you want to use the abstraction. What you want to be considered a start point, mid point, and end point. < 1326495413 359610 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't learned how enumerators work to compare, but the basics of conduits are pretty intuitive. < 1326495531 809982 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: < 1326495532 356019 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The type of function is off, but without seeing it we probably can't tell why. – Xodarap 10 mins ago < 1326495532 518331 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1326495532 518524 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1326495532 518629 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't need a type – GoodGuyGreg 4 mins ago < 1326495545 516065 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT DOESN'T NEED A TYPE. < 1326495548 755597 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1326495587 163536 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It doesn't need a type" are probably, out of context, words I would never associate with Haskell. < 1326495704 566856 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so for example, the function that transforms text input into sybolic "commands" I would probably make a source. < 1326495721 518591 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/function/thing/ < 1326495724 495073 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(????) < 1326495731 953717 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :conduit-thingy < 1326495849 491127 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Presumably you'd write a parser first. < 1326495873 661142 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was actually going to define what the commands are first.. < 1326495879 97543 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then do the parser afterwards < 1326495882 159870 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or well < 1326495884 155820 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1326495885 769960 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :do both kind of at the same time. < 1326495890 51410 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant before writing a conduit thing. < 1326495893 468511 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yes. < 1326495920 93451 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first thing is to implement the "pure" chess game, playable by absolutely no one. it just sits there and exists. < 1326495936 397090 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lots of things in haskell don't have types < 1326495938 5914 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :like types < 1326495939 493270 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :then I'm going to add all the things that are required for the interface. < 1326495982 875510 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, someone could play it in GHCI by feeding it a list of commands (in the form of an ADT), actually. < 1326496128 646017 :FireFly!firefly@unaffiliated/firefly QUIT :Excess Flood < 1326496163 426918 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Omegle... now lets you log in through Facebook. < 1326496197 481683 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :types have a type, kind of < 1326496209 204973 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in Haskell, surely. < 1326496235 561509 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the whoosh is strong in this one. < 1326496267 940240 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm Vorpalling. < 1326496285 411775 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION Vorpals the Ngevd. < 1326496337 486435 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, *with < 1326496474 483100 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notes that you can say "kind of" or "sort of", but not really "type of" < 1326496538 547448 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well not in that idiom. < 1326496596 644402 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: They don't need types. < 1326496602 429027 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only things that need types have them in Haskell. < 1326496605 99088 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1326496607 252583 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, not functions. < 1326496764 785830 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is Data.Conduit correct? < 1326496772 612812 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would think... Control.Conduit is a better name < 1326496777 372948 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps. < 1326496790 945454 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no difference. < 1326496814 309633 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yes. that's the bottom line. < 1326496817 324475 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.List; shouldn't it be Control.List, because its Applicative and Monad instances model nondeterministic computation? < 1326496824 921672 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Functor but Control.Applicative? < 1326496841 356506 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why, shouldn't Control.Applicative be Data.Applicative, considering how many containers are instances of it? < 1326496844 41620 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :such a stupid distinction < 1326496860 964577 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why are monads in Control.Monad, but if you just chop off the type parameter it ends up in Data.Monoid? < 1326496891 132031 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait I've got the best module name: < 1326496892 374975 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Conduit < 1326496903 623513 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Monad < 1326496906 794265 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Applicative < 1326496913 992685 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Conduit.Monad.Applicative < 1326496919 702787 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes exactly < 1326496975 515755 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it would make sense for Data to contain actual data structures < 1326496979 389222 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and related functions < 1326496986 895829 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Anyway, we need to sharply distinguish Data and Control to distance ourselves from the Lispers. < 1326496988 717778 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :with Control containing abstractions over many structures. < 1326496989 637085 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Data/Control module names are not really always sensible < 1326496994 47178 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since in Haskell they are the same thing < 1326497005 815551 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: So is a total trie in Data or Control? < 1326497008 160384 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I mean, data structures and control structures are the same thing) < 1326497010 391475 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :After all, it represents a function. < 1326497022 224366 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's pure data, no function arrows or control structures in there. < 1326497042 815543 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't know enough about what that is to conclude anything about it. < 1326497095 579493 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean < 1326497097 690364 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know what a trie is < 1326497099 811736 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not a total trie < 1326497120 131268 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: http://conal.net/blog/posts/elegant-memoization-with-functional-memo-tries might help. < 1326497128 210326 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I simply mean a trie that has all its elements defined. < 1326497137 5245 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. representing (a -> b) rather than (a -> Maybe b) or similar. < 1326497155 634100 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1326497173 911262 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, can such a trie be used as a control structure? < 1326497201 801905 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm not entirely sure what that means) < 1326497209 478287 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Presumably functions call under control in your categorisation scheme, since they're not "actual concrete data structures"(tm). < 1326497211 929267 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*fall < 1326497221 420013 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also lambda is the ultimate control flow and all that. < 1326497249 575124 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, since you have ((a -> b) -> Trie a b) and (Trie a b -> (a -> b))... < 1326497252 893772 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, I'm not really sure honestly. Sure I understand the distinction is arbitrary, but also believe it can be made, though it may be an ill-defined distinction. < 1326497260 734682 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yet they're pure data trees. < 1326497264 218906 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would say "control structures" in a functional language would include higher-order functions. < 1326497264 380730 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Concrete and all that. < 1326497274 528526 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is any of the changes made to Haskell to provide built-in natural number types having inhabited natural number types? < 1326497284 476105 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION → sleep < 1326497284 638029 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1326497303 335111 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: It really isn't a meaningful distinction. < 1326497331 456134 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION would merge Data and Control and call the result Structure or something like that. < 1326497335 450885 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, "Form", that's nicest. < 1326497342 401969 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would just remove that level. < 1326497343 265589 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is no difference between data structures and control structures in Haskell (unless they are made strict) < 1326497343 882620 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_> < 1326497351 288335 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then move Control.Exception into System.Exception. < 1326497358 190635 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :As well as Control.Concurrent to System.Concurrent. < 1326497372 23387 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: That would cause massive top-level pollution. < 1326497385 372610 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what nasty things does that entail? < 1326497403 618598 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data and Control are already pretty hugely populated. < 1326497443 708045 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: For a start, there's a Data.Data :P < 1326497448 27093 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would put Functor and then Functor.Applicative, Functor.Monad, and Functor.Comonad. That might do. < 1326497460 355530 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also Data.Dynamic would become Dynamic, and that's a very overloaded word to occupy. < 1326497466 680113 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But put list stuff in Data.List < 1326497475 801927 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that's just in base. < 1326497502 597621 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/^(Data|Control)/Stuff/g < 1326497515 739011 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/^(Data|Control)/Computers/g < 1326497526 126407 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/^(Data|Control)/Power!/g < 1326497532 759082 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Power.Monad < 1326497536 245192 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds more exciting doesn't it? < 1326497538 3253 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sincerely likes Form the best. < 1326497555 706058 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like something from martial arts... < 1326497561 497659 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326497562 62175 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data structures are about form, control structures are about form, abstractions like Functors and Monads are about form. < 1326497566 547647 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION utilizes the monad form to deliver a crushing blow to elliott. < 1326497570 553672 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are they called in mathematics? < 1326497574 61775 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something like concurrency or exceptions or IO or whatever isn't really about form. < 1326497583 667063 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: help what is "form" < 1326497598 911322 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Buy a dictionary. < 1326497665 629246 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION → sleep again < 1326497665 791040 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Client Quit < 1326497683 888611 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/og3lr/don_stewart_spokesman_for_senate_minority_leader/ < 1326497686 294658 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :GREAT HASKELL CONTENT < 1326497710 994913 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh < 1326497730 485808 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :great comment too < 1326497769 334409 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :: - ) < 1326497770 219008 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you think the try/evaluate stuff is not really ideal? I could try to make a library that makes macros using Template Haskell for catching these kind of pattern errors, which seem more ideal way to me since it does not require any values (including functions) to be not mathematically correct; macros are not values so it works OK < 1326497775 843793 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-19-212.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326497790 708553 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-19-212.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Client Quit < 1326497909 228919 :cswords_!~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326497912 170764 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric ::: -- )) < 1326497913 678535 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mathematically correct, n. something done the way zzo likes it < 1326497922 162734 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ssoorrrryy,, dduupplleexx sswwiittcchh oonn.. < 1326497933 813325 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1326497937 605946 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That isn't the correct definition. < 1326497942 31736 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yyoouu aarree ffoorrggiivveenn < 1326498051 963517 :augur_!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326498060 195268 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-21-4.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1326498060 645142 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-21-4.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1326498060 807031 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1326498096 425250 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :correct definition would make it an adjective? < 1326498112 662188 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: That would be part of it. < 1326498471 673812 :tswett_!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 NICK :tswett < 1326498509 964932 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :*.net *.split < 1326498510 289033 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net QUIT :*.net *.split < 1326498510 613310 :cswords!~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net QUIT :*.net *.split < 1326498593 659048 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i disagree with monqy's correct < 1326498646 901981 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: oh god < 1326498658 664153 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: i just answered two SO questions by the poster of that functional dreamers thing < 1326498664 265453 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fml < 1326498691 301262 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :functional dreamers thing? < 1326498787 104839 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: http://www.jadbox.com/2012/01/functional-dreamers/ < 1326498805 735578 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh that < 1326498809 835969 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :heheheh < 1326498831 500339 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION enjoys the use of "conceptualised" re: Conal since it's the closest verb he can think of to "nothingised" < 1326498866 490655 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :proactivized < 1326498901 389820 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :link elliott? < 1326498946 284792 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :How often do you find (zip [0..]) a useful function? < 1326498995 691004 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :very < 1326499030 442663 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: to the questions? < 1326499042 208969 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1326499048 779758 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a single name for (zip [0..]) function? < 1326499058 75889 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://stackoverflow.com/questions/8858422/does-tryhaskell-org-support-definitions http://stackoverflow.com/questions/8858739/the-difference-between-and-expressions < 1326499059 874474 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: zip [0..] < 1326499084 363705 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: there are single-name functions with more characters than that :P < 1326499096 941026 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That is not what I meant, though. < 1326499108 517153 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm fine with calling it «zip [0..]» < 1326499109 369211 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I just wanted to know if there is any; it is not required < 1326499114 33763 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :one less arbitrary name to memorize < 1326499116 771035 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but no, I don't know of one < 1326499119 717089 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :python calls that "enumerate" < 1326499123 360484 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha"closed as exact duplicate by duri, ehird, Martin Geisler, Tikhon Jelvis, Daniel Pratt 4 secs ago" < 1326499159 473478 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hilarious < 1326499162 770030 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(?) < 1326499172 835758 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (?) < 1326499173 876758 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `?' < 1326499196 288879 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ideal language is one where you don't need name bindings at all < 1326499199 907732 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they'd all be longer than the definition < 1326499225 551068 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Do you mean, like, Unlambda or Lazy-K, for example? < 1326499241 92928 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well... for sufficiently wrong definitions of "longer" < 1326499328 426242 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i have a hunch that might somehow violate a theorem, similar to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6del%27s_speed-up_theorem < 1326499348 199842 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :for sufficiently weird definitions of violate < 1326499371 936358 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well um of course it's impossible < 1326499375 720473 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :without an infinite alphabet at least < 1326499381 457368 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the famous mathematician G%C3%B6del < 1326499406 158724 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: he encrypted his name to keep the persecutors away < 1326499408 970888 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This statement cannot be proved in Peano arithmetic in less than a googolplex symbols" goedel really liked antagonising PA < 1326499483 487458 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: lmao at "List of long proofs" in the see also < 1326499495 930674 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i somehow doubt they're googolplex-length < 1326499560 8243 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :_probably_ not < 1326499576 643774 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :as even an automated prover couldn't check them < 1326499664 778653 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :They could be in a less powerful system < 1326499793 731796 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/textfile/miscellaneous/impossible_physics_list < 1326499843 732283 :cheater!~cheater@dslb-084-057-001-153.pools.arcor-ip.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326499855 87225 :primo!~maik@ppp-124-121-249-99.revip2.asianet.co.th JOIN :#esoteric < 1326500012 505892 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :do most web browsers support HTML% yet? < 1326500014 633732 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*5 < 1326500034 208292 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is most < 1326500038 987520 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, there's a website called caniuse or something < 1326500040 889131 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ones that the people use. < 1326500041 145145 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that tracks the support < 1326500089 976686 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so HTML5 Audio is supported in the newest versions of everything except Opera Mini < 1326500100 441182 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome primo < 1326500111 60130 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :browsers in risk of not having it include... IE. awesome. < 1326500111 716630 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :audio why do you want audio audio is awful dont do audio < 1326500112 311201 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :primo: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page < 1326500112 523991 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: I'd say that's a feature though < 1326500121 800373 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: go on < 1326500122 665257 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no TOPIC #esoteric :Hexhammers chase scottish clan back to Edinburgh with proton packs | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1326500128 666398 :primo!~maik@ppp-124-121-249-99.revip2.asianet.co.th PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: thanks < 1326500149 979892 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :but of course, even Mini could open audio through whatever platform audio handler(s) there are < 1326500153 238214 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you want audio why do you want audio dont < 1326500155 205140 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :theoretically anyway < 1326500183 588337 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suggest not using any fancy stuff unless needed for your webpage for sure; don't use video and audio and JavaScripts and CSS and pictures for everything. < 1326500199 750652 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say implementing that would be a horrible thing, and I will obviously prevent it < 1326500271 426919 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: it's difficult to implement a simple audio player without playing audio. < 1326500308 121657 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :noisy webpages are why bad things happen < 1326500309 983701 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Yes; if you need to play audio then of course you need to play audio. But if you want to implement a simple audio player you probaly don't need a webpage anyways < 1326500512 33803 :augur_!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net NICK :augur < 1326500554 314444 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1326500683 7880 :kallisti_!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326500694 334311 :kallisti_!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1326500699 343337 :kallisti_!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :X suddenly froze < 1326500701 845869 :kallisti_!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do? < 1326500706 894409 :kallisti_!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a way to fix this without restart? < 1326500775 417705 :kallisti_!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just going to restart... < 1326500798 308575 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh... < 1326500809 207463 :kallisti_!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Client Quit < 1326500817 425256 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently < 1326500820 282522 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :right clicking was the solution < 1326500866 252099 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think gftp is just bad and I should never use it again. < 1326500889 931819 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :so based on the last 9 lines, #esoteric is now kallisti's channel for talking to his/her self < 1326500903 499906 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1326500959 828207 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :A few lines are not sufficient statistics. < 1326501005 817584 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: hush, you're breaking the statistics < 1326501155 20272 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY ARE ALL OF THESE FTP CLIENTS SO BAD < 1326501179 958490 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: What happen if you just type in "ftp" at the prompt? < 1326501181 668948 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: ftp(1) < 1326501221 643353 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll learn that later. < 1326501245 87346 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :im sure learning a new crappy inconsistent gui app will be about 10x eaiser < 1326501246 260244 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :easier < 1326501280 36709 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well for doing a few simple things when under a slight time pressure. < 1326501283 73135 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it will be fine < 1326501285 428920 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then I can go learn ftp < 1326501783 128363 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-161-147-186.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326503012 95310 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: hi < 1326503069 733222 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : i got a new irc client Pidgin aparently xchat is not free after 30 days < 1326503080 897525 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha < 1326503117 558450 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-220-131.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, US courts think that having a .com or .net hostname suffices in order for them to have jurisdiction over you. < 1326503125 805356 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, i need to find some way to convince elliottt to change their legal name < 1326503147 204833 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the US has 'jurisdiction' over the entire world anyway < 1326503148 481319 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-220-131.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently nobody in the legal system even knows a damned thing about anything. < 1326503148 872392 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or else, try and be really active in #haskell about twenty minutes ago < 1326503159 686733 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :minimise or maximise confusion, the choice is mine < 1326503162 768856 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're lucky if the courts claim jurisdiction < 1326503174 63690 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise the executive branch can unilaterally blow up your house < 1326503190 408340 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-220-131.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Y'mean it's a matter of "most money wins" rather than "we win" then? < 1326503198 781002 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey gusy i hear ameriKa suxe! < 1326503208 21970 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ameriKKKa < 1326503224 128699 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-220-131.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to move to the fucking Moon. < 1326503300 602590 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :jesus h christ in a chicken basket, houston < 1326503304 315198 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're on the fucking moon, over < 1326503357 884199 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: you can't escape on the moon!!! president george w "satan" bush will just declare it as ame"corporatism"riKKKan territory < 1326503368 608965 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh man, ame"corporatism"riKKKan is a really good name < 1326503370 829598 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-220-131.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, if I move to the moon, I estimate it'd be at least 50 years before the US could enforce anything there. < 1326503374 921436 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was completely accidental, i've created a masterpiece < 1326503394 739878 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-220-131.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Given that the current US space program progress is *negative*, it could actually be forever. < 1326503407 759231 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott TOPIC #esoteric :united irc of hexham & helsinki of the UNUNITED states of ame"corporatism"riKKKa | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1326503445 213057 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: are you suggesting that we are somehow absorbing spaceflight endeavours from space < 1326503468 62840 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-220-131.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No. If we were we'd probably have fewer energy issues. :P < 1326503492 1963 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-220-131.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I presume if you can absorb spaceflight endeavours, you can then extract electricity from it) < 1326503505 631545 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-220-131.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I call it: the Science-Consuming Generator." < 1326503539 520483 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-220-131.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It sucks up future science and makes energy, thus killing two birds with one stone. < 1326503542 551203 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-220-131.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1326503612 343707 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone tell me to go to bed < 1326503626 10955 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-220-131.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Go to bed. < 1326503642 147791 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-220-131.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ベッドへ行け! < 1326503772 283605 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well, g'night i guess < 1326503773 957941 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :As far as I can tell, the moon never goes directly above the United States. Its maximum declination appears to be 22 < 1326503859 474686 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-220-131.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: The US also has about as much of a valid claim to the moon as it does Alpha Centauri. < 1326503860 917157 :primo!~maik@ppp-124-121-249-99.revip2.asianet.co.th PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor does the sun, for that matter < 1326503870 501719 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-220-131.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. "Hahahaha you can't even get there!" < 1326503937 330109 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :primo: True; the sun doesn't either. The limits of the sun declination are the tropics of Cancer and Capricorn < 1326504000 242435 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alpha Centauri is much farther away, but I don't know its declination. < 1326504025 45565 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1326504039 433739 :primo!~maik@ppp-124-121-249-99.revip2.asianet.co.th PRIVMSG #esoteric :itwouldn't take long to find out, if one were interested in knowing < 1326504113 190520 :primo!~maik@ppp-124-121-249-99.revip2.asianet.co.th PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that it's something that baffles me as well < 1326504158 775823 :primo!~maik@ppp-124-121-249-99.revip2.asianet.co.th PRIVMSG #esoteric :we should, by all logic, be the most intelligent humans to have ever lived. anything we want to know, we can know in a matter of seconds < 1326504179 765515 :primo!~maik@ppp-124-121-249-99.revip2.asianet.co.th PRIVMSG #esoteric :yet, that doesn't seem to be the case at all < 1326504411 771337 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have the declinations for 47 stars, but not Alpha Centauri < 1326504510 718489 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have the right ascension as well. They are listed in the order according to their right ascension. < 1326504525 579349 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can also calculate ecliptic coordinates if wanted. < 1326504568 431666 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Declination -60° 50′ 02.308″ says wikipedia < 1326504575 676124 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1326504580 96593 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, that's for A < 1326504610 998740 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :-60° 50′ 13.761″ for Alpha Centauri B < 1326504649 581753 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. I didn't know there are two < 1326504677 82734 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :−62° 40′ 46.141″ for Proxima Centauri < 1326504992 551889 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The list I have is not completely by order of right ascension; it is approximate. Andromeda is past zero now; in 1202 it was before zero. And sometimes they move past each other. In 1202 some were in a different order than listed, but now they are in the exact order of right ascension, even though Andromeda is past zero. < 1326505407 899878 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: The official XChat for Windows is indeed not free after 30 days. < 1326505419 247921 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's fucked < 1326505446 602508 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows more like WinKKKbl0$E < 1326505548 158492 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are constellations supposed to be numbered according to alphabetical order of their Latin names? < 1326505921 342439 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: http://www.iau.org/public/constellations/ has no numbers that i can see < 1326505967 741629 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notes Aquarius (Aqr) is before Aquila (Aql), so it's not sorted by abbreviation < 1326506033 326664 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Astrolog includes a list of constellations (Alt+5) in alphabetical order by Latin name (including Aquarius before Aquila); but they are also numbered 1 to 88. < 1326506129 351689 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i imagine you cannot get more authoritative than the IAU on this < 1326506142 699800 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, the IAU is authoritative for such things < 1326506156 988848 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, there was an update earlier < 1326506157 150832 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But this list is same as the IAU, except that it is numbered < 1326506304 61434 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, the IAU even has constellation boundary files, so I suppose it can be used to make up a computer program that displays them. < 1326506325 528131 :roper!~yaaic@95.169.240.93 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326506397 505231 :roper!~yaaic@95.169.240.93 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they say one got online every day to remedy affairs caused other hours from her nick < 1326506481 609281 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :roper: I do not understand without a context? < 1326506500 161475 :roper!~yaaic@95.169.240.93 PRIVMSG #esoteric :account hijacking < 1326506533 388229 :roper!~yaaic@95.169.240.93 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bot harassment < 1326506582 310860 :roper!~yaaic@95.169.240.93 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are quite talkative < 1326506623 489396 :roper!~yaaic@95.169.240.93 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think they use your history from other conversations < 1326506627 498877 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wow mozilla doesn't support mp3 in audio elements. < 1326506634 520980 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty ballsy. < 1326506645 45095 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Use Vorbis or FLAC. MP3 is no good anyways < 1326506649 788295 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yes I am < 1326506652 94409 :roper!~yaaic@95.169.240.93 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mp3 is not free < 1326506662 522219 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes that's why Mozilla doesn't support its use in audio elements. < 1326506663 737268 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :roper: Yes, that is one reason it is no good < 1326506665 705311 :roper!~yaaic@95.169.240.93 PRIVMSG #esoteric :patented < 1326506734 173751 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :For videos, use Theora. < 1326506738 390910 :roper!~yaaic@95.169.240.93 PRIVMSG #esoteric :worse than secret < 1326506840 332357 :primo!~maik@ppp-124-121-249-99.revip2.asianet.co.th PRIVMSG #esoteric :question for anyone < 1326506869 815365 :primo!~maik@ppp-124-121-249-99.revip2.asianet.co.th PRIVMSG #esoteric :if an iterpretter for a given esolang doesn't work at all, can i just overwrite it with one that does? < 1326506897 593295 :roper!~yaaic@95.169.240.93 PRIVMSG #esoteric :questionable < 1326506913 463396 :primo!~maik@ppp-124-121-249-99.revip2.asianet.co.th PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm looking at ferNANDo < 1326506923 337797 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :primo: You could do so, yes; if they don't like then they can still view the history. But first ensure that you are correct about it not working at all, because maybe it does work on their computer. < 1326506930 21953 :roper!~yaaic@95.169.240.93 PRIVMSG #esoteric :orLANDO < 1326506930 877982 :primo!~maik@ppp-124-121-249-99.revip2.asianet.co.th PRIVMSG #esoteric :the haskell implementation is correct. python not at all < 1326507002 841371 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Check what things were changed by the anonymous modificationsby 164.67.235.79 and 131.179.32.131 < 1326507028 229585 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also look at talk page < 1326507031 123855 :primo!~maik@ppp-124-121-249-99.revip2.asianet.co.th PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: can't possibly work on any machine. A = B nand C was originally implemented as A = A nand B < 1326507049 313625 :primo!~maik@ppp-124-121-249-99.revip2.asianet.co.th PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the talk page implemenation, is even worse o.O < 1326507074 178160 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, then, please do fix it. < 1326507093 411824 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did not look carefully at them or try to run them on my computer < 1326507109 140237 :primo!~maik@ppp-124-121-249-99.revip2.asianet.co.th PRIVMSG #esoteric :output 2**(9-i) should be 2**(7-i) (or, <<7-i) < 1326507117 780182 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1326507136 29681 :primo!~maik@ppp-124-121-249-99.revip2.asianet.co.th PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the 'fix' to find the last line number is entirely broken < 1326507140 665452 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :primo: well if you think it's so bad it's not worth basing a corrected one on it < 1326507148 959088 :primo!~maik@ppp-124-121-249-99.revip2.asianet.co.th PRIVMSG #esoteric :because list.reverse() is in-place, it returns None < 1326507183 161470 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wrote the haskell one btw < 1326507223 542583 :roper!~yaaic@95.169.240.93 PRIVMSG #esoteric :may ever be a limit for the most inefficient formulation? < 1326507244 103309 :roper!~yaaic@95.169.240.93 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that does the calculation < 1326507310 982980 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :roper: you can always put in extra nop's... this is a technical point used to show that O(f) is contained in O(g) if f <= g < 1326507326 292854 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm wait < 1326507327 3729 :roper!~yaaic@95.169.240.93 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nop is nop < 1326507329 824694 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't need that < 1326507373 75697 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can pad in time and space for technical reasons < 1326507391 543974 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would have written it entirely differently but your way is just as good. But I generally write Haskell programs seem to be differently than most, anyways. A literate Haskell program can be implemented in MediaWiki; just make the codes with > and with
 around it! And then, it does have the URL to download the raw copy, so you can use that to download .lhs file.
< 1326507487 834310 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Boy without a cerebellum baffles doctors" - I wonder if this is a documentary about guido
< 1326507498 717811 :roper!~yaaic@95.169.240.93 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how  would you make worse a = sum (range(0,n)) ?
< 1326507514 369698 :roper!~yaaic@95.169.240.93 PRIVMSG #esoteric :worst complexity class
< 1326507522 396192 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems as though if I look away from skype for too long it will be frozen when I come back.
< 1326507563 629699 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :roper: sum(x) = sleep()
< 1326507572 76289 :roper!~yaaic@95.169.240.93 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope
< 1326507584 219964 :roper!~yaaic@95.169.240.93 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not valid
< 1326507587 470536 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :roper: sum(x) = sum(x)
< 1326507598 141540 :roper!~yaaic@95.169.240.93 PRIVMSG #esoteric :same complexity
< 1326507609 693672 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't understand the question then
< 1326507629 757862 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instead of sum(range...) you could convert it to single algebra formula
< 1326507632 587816 :roper!~yaaic@95.169.240.93 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well O(n)
< 1326507637 605868 :primo!~maik@ppp-124-121-249-99.revip2.asianet.co.th PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahh yes, it seems 164.67.235.79 broke it
< 1326507667 279550 :roper!~yaaic@95.169.240.93 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38 that would not change complexity
< 1326507723 390772 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could write   n*(n+1)/2   instead
< 1326507763 804318 :roper!~yaaic@95.169.240.93 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38 wrong, that is O(1)
< 1326507773 736539 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it is O(1)
< 1326507792 382999 :roper!~yaaic@95.169.240.93 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean worst complexity
< 1326507815 734559 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know how to change it to worst complexity.
< 1326507827 464715 :roper!~yaaic@95.169.240.93 PRIVMSG #esoteric :neither i
< 1326507832 364626 :roper!~yaaic@95.169.240.93 PRIVMSG #esoteric :curious
< 1326507851 44433 :roper!~yaaic@95.169.240.93 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can optimize but not worsenize
< 1326507872 589420 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the "worst complexity"?
< 1326507882 329608 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :roper: you can easily worsenize. see bogosort for an example in sorting
< 1326507913 162644 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would say there's no end to the amount of useless operations you can perform.
< 1326507927 912289 :roper!~yaaic@95.169.240.93 PRIVMSG #esoteric :worst complexity is... at least O(n^2)
< 1326507928 690433 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you count it, O(infnity) is the "worst possible case"
< 1326507939 745751 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :though big O notation is usually defined over reals.
< 1326507949 459296 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is possible to write a program in the "most pessimum" if necessary, such as what someone did when writing a program with rotating memory, they moved the instructions around to slow it down, instead of using delay loops.
< 1326507980 790906 :roper!~yaaic@95.169.240.93 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean complexity class, not number of operations
< 1326507991 529461 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :here's a worse way to do that sum: replace the "a=" with "point a to a location in memory that already has the right value. if it does not exist, write random bits memory and repeat"
< 1326508003 564683 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: hm was that the Mel story?
< 1326508014 380049 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 mel
< 1326508035 637842 :roper!~yaaic@95.169.240.93 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia wrong
< 1326508053 88352 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :roper is never satisfied.
< 1326508065 500687 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :roper: you are wrong
< 1326508072 572666 :roper!~yaaic@95.169.240.93 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am over satisfied
< 1326508081 85340 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :roper: the problem here is that it takes a sentient being to determine whether the worsening is allowed or not.
< 1326508088 736643 :roper!~yaaic@95.169.240.93 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it is still o n
< 1326508099 293474 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, no?
< 1326508134 212601 :roper!~yaaic@95.169.240.93 PRIVMSG #esoteric :worse than x*N OPERATIONS?
< 1326508141 639481 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :worst case of quintopia's algorithm is O(infinity)  aka it continues to the end of time.
< 1326508159 773807 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :roper: it is not O(n). it is expected to take O(n*x*1/p)
< 1326508167 356282 :roper!~yaaic@95.169.240.93 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is not an alforithm, kallinsti
< 1326508183 497263 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :where x is the size of memory and p is the probability of the right number occurring in it
< 1326508197 498118 :roper!~yaaic@95.169.240.93 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmm
< 1326508198 689385 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :roper: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Las_Vegas_algorithm
< 1326508262 957770 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Probabilistic_complexity#Computational_complexity
< 1326508266 542233 :roper!~yaaic@95.169.240.93 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and deterministic?
< 1326508280 998992 :roper!~yaaic@95.169.240.93 PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead?
< 1326508294 358876 :roper!~yaaic@95.169.240.93 PRIVMSG #esoteric :impossible?
< 1326508304 754898 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope
< 1326508316 2339 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay it resizes the range by repeating each element of the range N times where N is the length of the list 
< 1326508319 584990 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it calculates the sum of that
< 1326508325 323002 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then divides that by N
< 1326508325 854803 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1326508328 668321 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :WORSER
< 1326508350 383400 :augur_!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1326508357 875651 :roper!~yaaic@95.169.240.93 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmm
< 1326508380 673868 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance "count to A(n) every time you increment the counter that will eventually contain your answer"
< 1326508396 839741 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :much worse complexity :D
< 1326508438 600081 :roper!~yaaic@95.169.240.93 PRIVMSG #esoteric :2^n
< 1326508443 895666 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is easy to make it _technically_ at least O(enormous(n)).  Just do enormous(i) useless operations between normal step i and i+1.
< 1326508457 322637 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :^
< 1326508491 572017 :roper!~yaaic@95.169.240.93 PRIVMSG #esoteric :2^n is the worst i think... count until the correct result
< 1326508505 216937 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1326508510 705844 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :O.O
< 1326508521 390975 :roper!~yaaic@95.169.240.93 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1326508524 107078 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :roper: i have for a while now thought that you're probably trolling.
< 1326508544 372833 :roper!~yaaic@95.169.240.93 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not entirely
< 1326508551 770630 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :he could just be really dumb.
< 1326508553 199266 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_>
< 1326508584 532336 :roper!~yaaic@95.169.240.93 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a though experiment
< 1326508609 219345 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1326508643 567572 :augur_!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1326508680 807033 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah paypals fees suck.
< 1326508700 863314 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION should try bitcoin.
< 1326509481 4958 :roper!~yaaic@95.169.240.93 QUIT :Quit: Yaaic - Yet another Android IRC client - http://www.yaaic.org
< 1326510440 907537 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about cosbycoin
< 1326510531 788575 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well if you insist on using bills...
< 1326510617 724803 :TeruFSX!~quassel@71-210-150-147.mpls.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1326510655 341720 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ..........................
< 1326510665 569161 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :astounding
< 1326510681 243664 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yw
< 1326510691 945454 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a different idea the kind of payment system to use; you buy the card with the account number and SSH key, split the account if necessary, and then give them the code. So it would be decentralized system. And not necessarily require the use of a computer.
< 1326510845 997374 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :has anyone heard about the Jan. 18 "blackout"?
< 1326510862 919346 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: What does that mean?
< 1326510900 621885 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :reddit is going to go offline on Jan 18 to protest SOPA
< 1326510906 253642 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also Mozilla
< 1326510909 235189 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and possibly others.
< 1326510911 314555 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :en.wikipedia might too, or at least display a banner: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:SOPA_initiative/Action
< 1326510934 690135 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if facebook and google do it, that might be something
< 1326510963 128182 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god I would have to use bing.
< 1326510967 34932 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or duckduckgo
< 1326510968 702161 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or yahoo
< 1326510971 199427 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH
< 1326510997 319475 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Will Freenode go offline too?
< 1326511010 863245 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that I'm aware of.
< 1326511052 741107 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could probably still use gopher if Google go ofline
< 1326511146 951969 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or some Wikipedia mirror
< 1326511400 512132 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, you're aware that Google does not actually control the HTTP protocol, yes?
< 1326511419 617093 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Yes, I am aware.
< 1326511586 222953 :pir^2!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1326512213 157020 :pir^2!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 QUIT :Quit: Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1326512731 133058 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am writing a program called Internet Quiz Engine. It is written in CWEB, and will be available to put your own quiz file too, after I have tested it. It is a program to run on gopher services; similar to CGI but much simpler. There is only one environment variable called SELECTOR and no headers.
< 1326512767 374092 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I have already written other programs to use this convention, you can use PHP or Perl or whatever you want, as long as you can access environment variables)
< 1326513810 531385 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-220-131.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1326513818 699384 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-193-174.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1326514222 842511 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even though it is C, there is no buffer overflow because there is no buffer!
< 1326514785 273693 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :How often would you use >>= or join with Parsec? Probably only very rarely; it isn't useful in most cases. Actually, return probably isn't very useful with Parsec either; if I need a constant value I can use <$ to result in that value when certain things are parsed.
< 1326514887 415310 :_Slereah!~butt@ANantes-259-1-252-161.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1326514928 395003 :_Slereah!~butt@ANantes-259-1-238-29.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1326515155 410705 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: you'd want >>= if you want to branch on the first parser in a way too complicated to be efficiently split into <|> cases?
< 1326515197 43057 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*parser result
< 1326515221 220406 :TeruFSX!~quassel@71-210-150-147.mpls.qwest.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1326515252 121631 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Well, yes; a dependent parser (I don't know if that is a proper term used anywhere), in case you want to do something such as a number written in decimal form which tells how many bytes to read for the data, and stuff like that. But it is not required for most things you are going to parse.
< 1326515317 525166 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"non-context-free" would be an approximation.
< 1326515344 288291 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: O, is that what it is called? Or, only approximately?
< 1326515401 366161 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well in principle you always _can_ split into <|> 's; i saw a blog post showing how.  but it requires using haskell's laziness to make the grammar essentially infinite.
< 1326515453 96050 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i think if you use only applicative methods and a finite grammar, you can do only context-free things.
< 1326515589 380960 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes I think so.
< 1326515619 22962 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you would rarely ever need it differently.
< 1326515670 286461 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you might also want >>= i think if you want to check for things like variables being in scope.  but of course you can do that post-parsing as well.
< 1326515712 478109 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and you'll need that anyhow if you have arbitrary order of declarations like in haskell.
< 1326515722 59949 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that = post-parsing)
< 1326515763 73925 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yes, you would probably do that post-parsing. Although if it needs to be done during parsing for some reason then yes you would want >>= for that purpose, but I suppose that is also a "dependent parser" or "non-context-free" or whatever? Is it?
< 1326515774 951362 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1326516038 804380 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I suppose context-free with an infinite grammar is like non-context-free?
< 1326516122 817313 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, you can turn an arbitrary String -> Bool function into such a grammar
< 1326516181 577558 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm
< 1326516188 636287 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :finite strings.
< 1326516398 77357 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :here is the blog article; note that he uses "context-sensitive" but that's too restrictive: http://byorgey.wordpress.com/2012/01/05/parsing-context-sensitive-languages-with-applicative/
< 1326516773 520399 :NihilistDandy!~NihilistD@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com
< 1326516807 700125 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK
< 1326516841 430625 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1326517068 261850 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1326517278 507961 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nginx does not properly support headerless HTTP. I suggest that they fix that.
< 1326517322 988478 :pir^2!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1326517327 971020 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"headerless HTTP" sounds like "not HTTP"
< 1326517360 212297 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you mean HTTP 0.9?
< 1326517393 985410 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: No, I mean headerless HTTP. True it is not complete HTTP. But Apache supports headerless HTTP.
< 1326517424 327407 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think nginx is obliged to support everything apache does
< 1326517425 279640 :Nisstyre!~yours@c-208-90-102-250.netflash.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1326517432 55348 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you have some documentation of Apache's support
< 1326517439 433621 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :all i found googling for "headerless HTTP" was HTTP 0.9
< 1326517480 757224 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :With Apache, omitting the HTTP/1.1 or whatever after the URL omits both the request header and the response header. Nginx will omit the request header if you do that, but it will not omit the response header.
< 1326517516 432504 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this a documented feature
< 1326517522 71385 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just something that happens to work
< 1326517528 198161 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, but I know how it works because I tried it.
< 1326517552 318699 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Apache's headerless HTTP seems more reasonable to me than Nginx's headerless HTTP.
< 1326517552 480310 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so now you want nginx to be bug-compatible with apache
< 1326517557 77420 :Nisstyre!~yours@c-208-90-102-250.netflash.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1326517591 10420 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :As far as I know it isn't a bug, it is supposed to be like that.
< 1326517617 213424 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: According to http://www.apacheweek.com/features/http11 this is standard HTTP 0.9 behaviour.
< 1326517678 843657 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm it does seem nginx claims to support HTTP/0.9
< 1326517682 635064 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm surprised
< 1326517716 344247 :Nisstyre!~yours@c-208-90-102-250.netflash.net QUIT :Max SendQ exceeded
< 1326517721 207613 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I $ nc localhost 80\nGET /\n, it gives me an nginx response page with no headers.
< 1326517739 746740 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe the headers are coming from a CGI-style executable or something along those lines?
< 1326517775 430971 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: OK. Yes maybe that is the case, or maybe they changed it from the version I have tried connecting to (including Google and FreeGeek), or whatever else.
< 1326517808 413901 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think Google runs nginx.
< 1326517829 394589 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, it is gws
< 1326517830 824395 :Nisstyre!~yours@c-208-90-102-250.netflash.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1326517844 721945 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then they should fix gws
< 1326517867 27754 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I know FreeGeek is nginx and at least the version I have tried had that problem; maybe not all versions do
< 1326517886 564892 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I use Apache on my own computer, however.)
< 1326517896 809470 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, you seem to have an odd idea of what the word "fix" means
< 1326518167 241902 :TeruFSX!~quassel@71-210-150-147.mpls.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1326522677 957143 :Mathnerd314!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1326522710 556729 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://stackoverflow.com/questions/4382223/pure-functional-language-haskell oh man, Haskell question answered by Joel Spolsky
< 1326522749 562545 :Mathnerd314!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net TOPIC #esoteric :United ITV of hex-him & hill-sinking of the UNITED states of ame"corporatism"riva | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/
< 1326522889 621062 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1326522903 302707 :pir^2!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiiiii
< 1326523008 508076 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it correct to say that the big idea is to have the impurity _just outside_ the language level?
< 1326523013 589237 :Mathnerd314!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net NICK :notaprogram
< 1326523025 426021 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, of how IO gets done in Haskell
< 1326523032 367001 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hides an impurity monster under Sgeo's bed
< 1326523074 902145 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION turing tests notaprogram 
< 1326523101 371381 :notaprogram!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :move pawn to b1
< 1326523132 660487 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :notaprogram: Do you mean a black pawn?
< 1326523145 502606 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok you're human, no computer could play chess that badly
< 1326523158 916502 :notaprogram!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: no, I insist on moving first
< 1326523195 29449 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :notaprogram: Then is it a variant or is it standard FIDE chess? In standard FIDE chess, you cannot move a white pawn to b1
< 1326523224 881854 :notaprogram!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops, I meant b3
< 1326523236 872029 :notaprogram!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's friday the 13, I mix up the digits
< 1326523241 595904 :Nisstyre!~yours@c-208-90-102-250.netflash.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1326523263 746691 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, OK.
< 1326523281 496754 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, no
< 1326523291 911270 :pir^2!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88 [Firefox 10.0/20111221135037]
< 1326523428 568733 :notaprogram!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net NICK :quantumprogram
< 1326523561 22200 :quantumprogram!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net NICK :Mathnerd314
< 1326523696 518724 :Mathnerd314!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the universe is a functional programming language
< 1326523713 572109 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1326523719 216197 :Mathnerd314!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it is so esoteric that only I know how to program it
< 1326523723 437707 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1326523759 777991 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :O KAY
< 1326523778 944983 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i think even elliott would consider that an appropriate case)
< 1326523798 86329 :Mathnerd314!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... can I get added as an op here?
< 1326523804 990361 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1326523811 415756 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you?
< 1326523816 63214 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's quite physically possible.
< 1326523855 375399 :Mathnerd314!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but is it probable?
< 1326523865 927776 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :not in the near future, no.
< 1326523882 131939 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :You need a heart of gold.
< 1326523895 236317 :Mathnerd314!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :gold is expensive...
< 1326524160 548275 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :a heart of pyrite will do
< 1326524172 229529 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, to me the essential idea is that descriptions of IO are first-class values
< 1326524207 22978 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, right, and right outside the language, the description of main is executed?
< 1326524215 392180 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wouldn't say that's "outside the language"
< 1326524224 808256 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Haskell Report specifies the meaning of each IO action
< 1326524233 784244 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Outside the miranda of the language
< 1326524241 901559 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have one semantics for function application and evaluation, and another semantics for execution of IO actions
< 1326524244 861952 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're both part of the language
< 1326524260 615697 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact the rules for execution invoke the rules for evaluation
< 1326524292 295760 :Mathnerd314!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eh44QPT1mPE
< 1326524295 952807 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :before you can execute an IO action, you have to compute what it is
< 1326524316 792562 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Good night
< 1326524321 863277 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :not just at the "outer level" of main, but at each occurrence of (>>=)
< 1326524357 21796 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have unsafe{Perform,Interleave}IO then the rules are mutually recursive: the result of evaluating some value can depend on the result of executing some IO action
< 1326524396 83890 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be interesting to program in a strict-evaluation language which still has the evaluation/execution distinction, but where unsafePerformIO is not as stigmatized
< 1326524423 152052 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-161-147-186.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: SLEEP, GLORIOUS SLEEP
< 1326524796 381574 :Mathnerd314!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: it would be even more interesting to program in http://requestforlogic.blogspot.com/2011/08/embracing-and-extending-levy-language.html
< 1326525195 303124 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314, cool
< 1326525228 264079 :Mathnerd314!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but unfortunately there's no Haskell implementation
< 1326525434 260661 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :How long is Jyte closed for upgrades/bad gateway?
< 1326525572 887019 :jpulgarin!~jpulgarin@CPE0013f7ab8170-CM0013f7ab816c.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1326525578 675431 :jpulgarin!~jpulgarin@CPE0013f7ab8170-CM0013f7ab816c.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com PART #esoteric :"Leaving"
< 1326525852 693501 :Mathnerd314!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1326527158 627022 :sebbu3!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-21-4.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1326527158 828355 :sebbu3!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-21-4.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host
< 1326527158 989963 :sebbu3!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1326527358 404608 :Mathnerd314!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1326527376 684758 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1326528324 924213 :primo_!~maik@ppp-110-169-204-219.revip5.asianet.co.th JOIN :#esoteric
< 1326528471 155485 :primo!~maik@ppp-124-121-249-99.revip2.asianet.co.th QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1326529642 557043 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Internet Quiz Engine:   gopher://zzo38computer.cjb.net:70/1quiz.menu*a
< 1326529691 901484 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chrome doesn't seem to support gopher
< 1326529716 726458 :Mathnerd314!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :firefox removed support... but there's an extension
< 1326529726 525132 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/prog/bashgopher/bashgopher
< 1326529772 734790 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You might need to modify it to work with your system. h = go back, j k = down/up, u i = page down/page up, l = follow, q = quit. When reading text file, space next page, b previous page, q go back.
< 1326529799 820961 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such as, adding "-q -1" to nc if necessary, changing "clsb" to "clear", and changing CRLF to LF only.
< 1326529967 365309 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does this work for you?
< 1326530293 736499 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :In today's economy, which would be worth more, five golden tumors or five golden mice?
< 1326530440 907726 :Mathnerd314!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net NICK :[Mathnerd314]
< 1326530582 757647 :[Mathnerd314]!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net NICK :Mathnerd314_
< 1326530884 462250 :Mathnerd314_!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net NICK :Mathnerd314
< 1326531280 82823 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1326531297 579244 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1326531781 553588 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1326532143 266465 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello
< 1326532578 960444 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1326532820 684857 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ping
< 1326532907 610957 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1326532929 863534 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1326533357 118891 :Mathnerd314!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :me: pong
< 1326534086 659292 :primo_!~maik@ppp-110-169-204-219.revip5.asianet.co.th NICK :primo
< 1326534266 15743 :Mathnerd314!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 74
< 1326534276 591119 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :74)  Invalid! Kill! Kill!  I get that feeling too.
< 1326534293 961084 :Mathnerd314!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 69
< 1326534297 640996 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :69)  Warrigal: what do you mean by 21?
< 1326534302 247412 :Mathnerd314!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 21
< 1326534306 22040 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :21) IN AN ALTERNATE UNIVERSE:  there is plenty of room to get head twice at once
< 1326534387 794605 :Mathnerd314!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 314
< 1326534391 448844 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :314)  ais523: quick, say something funny   something funny hagrea:D   can'tä sopt laughitn
< 1326534521 664406 :Mathnerd314!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 313
< 1326534523 996322 :Mathnerd314!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 315
< 1326534524 950749 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :313)  it is from 2002 though, I was younger then
< 1326534527 202912 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :315)  elliott: hey, thinking's easier than using the Internet
< 1326534554 602520 :Mathnerd314!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm.
< 1326534563 791518 :Nisstyre!~yours@c-208-90-102-250.netflash.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1326534568 114545 :Mathnerd314!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 333
< 1326534570 849921 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :333)  haha, god made one helluva blunder there :DS   "WHOOPS HE AIN'T DEAD YET!"   "luckily no one will believe him because christians are such annoying retards"
< 1326534591 917727 :Mathnerd314!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 249
< 1326534594 859279 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :249)  Sgeo: re "hm?": at the emerging languages conf., after the talks we went out for a drinks and all the Factor team was on heavy liquor
< 1326534611 651015 :Mathnerd314!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 250
< 1326534615 347414 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :250)  mtve, now he's an expert idler.   mtve: kitty kitty kitty
< 1326534731 480880 :Mathnerd314!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 252
< 1326534734 627392 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :252)  I need a new desktop background   j-invariant: Try http://codu.org/spinners.png (tiled)   uhrghoaudp
< 1326534798 214252 :Mathnerd314!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 253
< 1326534801 465230 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :253) * quintopia sits on gregor
< 1326534821 610509 :Nisstyre!~yours@c-208-90-102-250.netflash.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1326534825 192792 :Mathnerd314!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :blargh, to sleep I go
< 1326534889 703735 :Mathnerd314!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 254
< 1326534892 850684 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :254)  [...] reyouthismootherate [...]
< 1326535368 540357 :Mathnerd314!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 302
< 1326535371 965325 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :302)  Phantom_Hoover: if the list is in random order, like poor ehird here
< 1326535502 759458 :Mathnerd314!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 304
< 1326535506 116065 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :304) * Received a CTCP VERSION from nyuszika7h   * VERSION Microsoft IRC# 2011 64-bit (Windows 8 Beta, x64, 2GB RAM)    Gregor: Windows 8 Beta? o_O    A small benefit of my brief time as an intern at MS.
< 1326535535 435660 :Mathnerd314!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 305
< 1326535538 742837 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :305)  addquoting yourself?  isn't that like commenting on your own facebook status?    Yup, but I'm JUST THAT AWESOME.
< 1326535632 504115 :Mathnerd314!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net NICK :lament
< 1326535708 559859 :lament!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net NICK :mathnerd314
< 1326535879 68653 :mathnerd314!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net NICK :Mathnerd314
< 1326535900 56998 :Mathnerd314!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 311
< 1326535903 45271 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :311)  I also do not like that it should be disallow just because of too weird. They haveto make up more name so that not everyone has the same name!!!
< 1326536068 107208 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric
< 1326536420 746093 :Mathnerd314!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 320
< 1326536423 837704 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :320)  BYE dbc WE'LL BE SURE TO ACCIDENTALLY MENTION YOUR NICK OFTEN
< 1326536443 218030 :Mathnerd314!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoops... too far
< 1326536453 957289 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :FFS.
< 1326536454 192425 :Mathnerd314!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll try again tomorrow
< 1326536457 939661 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastequotes
< 1326536461 433082 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.1014
< 1326536466 91805 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here, enjoy.
< 1326536514 822977 :Mathnerd314!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :see, they're all wrong
< 1326536536 139920 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, jesus.
< 1326536545 192468 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I liked you more when you were just annoying, rather than insane.
< 1326536578 102257 :Mathnerd314!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I know. but insanity appears to be the only way out...
< 1326536602 988848 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ping me when you're available
< 1326536621 822703 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 683
< 1326536625 435054 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :683)  COCKS [...]  truly cocks
< 1326536674 504929 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't it be cool if i joined with ms comic chat
< 1326536783 176648 :Mathnerd314!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88 [Firefox 12.0a1/20120113031050]
< 1326537085 40097 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote sleep
< 1326537088 521424 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :325)  i'm really sleep \ 544)  IM FIST IN HEAD AND DONT KNOW TO SLEEP?????? \ 559)  That's the stupidest thing I've heard all morning. (Though I did wake up five minutes ago, so I haven't had a chance to hear very much.)   The "Why are you still asleep? I told the cat to wake you up." comment does come pretty close, though. \ 613)  in the past few minutes I tried remembering
< 1326537104 781978 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote shachaf
< 1326537108 399574 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :617)  elliott: GHC bug? Come on, it's the parentheses.   The more parentheses you add, the closer it is to LISP, and therefore the more dynamically-typed. \ 663)  Real Tar is GNU tar.   You just ignore whichever features don't make you feel superior enough. \ 701)  VMS Mosaic?   I hope that's not Mosaic ported to VMS.   Hmm. It's Mosaic ported to VMS.
< 1326537123 772071 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those quotes are terrible.
< 1326537150 484532 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll take solace in the fact that `quote isn't so much "best of" as "random of".
< 1326537493 955862 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :  
< 1326537497 907426 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, oops
< 1326537521 813126 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(why was there a single space in the input line?)
< 1326541522 130928 :cheater!~cheater@dslb-084-057-001-153.pools.arcor-ip.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly a ploy by the romulans to disrupt our communications
< 1326541593 690939 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1326541597 954586 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :-NickServ- Last failed attempt from: elliott_!~elliott@c-69-181-214-206.hsd1.ca.comcast.net on Jan 13 15:34:34 2012.
< 1326541600 289946 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHO THE FUCK ARE YOU
< 1326541975 245623 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A purely functional user interface is not a user interface at all! It is a picture or maybe even an animation, but it is not something you can interact with."
< 1326541976 617158 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION cries.
< 1326542074 868080 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:58:45: -!- roper has joined #esoteric.
< 1326542075 29806 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:59:57:  they say one got online every day to remedy affairs caused other hours from her nick
< 1326542075 192241 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:01:21:  roper: I do not understand without a context?
< 1326542075 192427 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:01:40:  account hijacking
< 1326542075 192532 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:02:13:  bot harassment
< 1326542075 870531 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:03:02:  they are quite talkative
< 1326542077 548469 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:03:43:  i think they use your history from other conversations
< 1326542079 872939 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I...
< 1326542088 140244 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :romulans
< 1326542097 48221 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-163-58.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1326542131 59952 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-163-58.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If there's ever an esoteric blend of Haskell, f should be equivalent to `(flip f)`
< 1326542145 114678 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha
< 1326542152 58601 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, haskell isn't esoteric enough for you?
< 1326542153 944537 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-163-58.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, Hello
< 1326542157 26804 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi Ngevd
< 1326542190 778811 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-163-58.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah, I can generally figure out what a Haskell program is for by looking at it for a while
< 1326542226 836748 :cheater!~cheater@dslb-084-057-001-153.pools.arcor-ip.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: i was thinking exactly that haskell is a right-to-left language
< 1326542244 421543 :cheater!~cheater@dslb-084-057-001-153.pools.arcor-ip.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and indeed i define flip ($) in all my programs to be <>
< 1326542249 139418 :cheater!~cheater@dslb-084-057-001-153.pools.arcor-ip.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's very useful
< 1326542304 54391 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-163-58.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would have called it 
< 1326542318 254529 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1326542383 749589 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :£sd
< 1326542682 432080 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:24:32  dibblego: Why did you kick me?
< 1326542682 594244 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:25:04  Fifo: please do not spam the channel or its users in private
< 1326542682 594423 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:25:29  dibblego: Sorry!
< 1326542682 594529 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:25:49  dibblego: Please join ##iPhoneFifo!
< 1326542743 559633 :Nisstyre!~yours@out-on-209.wireless.telus.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1326542745 863630 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-163-58.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What?
< 1326542787 811986 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:35:24:  roper: i have for a while now thought that you're probably trolling.
< 1326542787 974143 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:35:44:  not entirely
< 1326542787 974325 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:35:51:  he could just be really dumb.
< 1326542787 974430 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:35:53:  >_>
< 1326542796 452358 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan logreading: i'm definitely leaning on the side of just really dumb
< 1326542902 411286 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is such a weird channel
< 1326542917 385501 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-163-58.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's possitively esoteric
< 1326542926 806917 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :womp womp
< 1326542936 320261 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :03:23:20:  zzo38, you're aware that Google does not actually control the HTTP protocol, yes?
< 1326542937 380897 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: YET.
< 1326542941 927306 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1326542951 719962 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : Internet Quiz Engine:   gopher://zzo38computer.cjb.net:70/1quiz.menu*a
< 1326542953 381724 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :SOUNDS LEGIT
< 1326542957 853125 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is
< 1326543011 561519 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :gopher://zzo38computer.foeug3g47fgeg34.ch3p-h4rbl-vjaagra.co.ng:22/../../warez2.php
< 1326543050 524104 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-163-58.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gopher is a pun!
< 1326543054 855954 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-163-58.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heheheh
< 1326543104 292463 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PART #esoteric :"Leaving"
< 1326543106 74960 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1326543122 542638 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :04:34:30:  you might also want >>= i think if you want to check for things like variables being in scope. but of course you can do that post-parsing as well.
< 1326543122 704698 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :04:35:12:  oh and you'll need that anyhow if you have arbitrary order of declarations like in haskell.
< 1326543122 704894 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :04:35:22:  (that = post-parsing)
< 1326543132 186868 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, what you need is a bitemporal state monad
< 1326543138 851784 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that state flows both forwards and backwards
< 1326543153 915 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-163-58.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"bitemporal"!? That two-timing...!
< 1326543153 787198 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess you need the state to be a Monoid to combine them
< 1326543157 91602 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :one point twenty one jiggawatts
< 1326543257 671196 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :06:31:50:  http://stackoverflow.com/questions/4382223/pure-functional-language-haskell oh man, Haskell question answered by Joel Spolsky
< 1326543257 869624 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :surprisingly it's even basically correct
< 1326543308 712121 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :despite all the people going "getChar is, like, referentially transparent so you're wrong" :|
< 1326543419 409874 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :06:48:16:  the universe is a functional programming language
< 1326543419 609915 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :06:48:33:  ok
< 1326543419 610112 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :06:48:39:  but it is so esoteric that only I know how to program it
< 1326543423 505319 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, good, he's still crazy!
< 1326543893 949884 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's kind of correct
< 1326543913 775357 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean it's just arguing about what words mean
< 1326543929 831424 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you accept joel's definition than Haskell isn't a pure functional language
< 1326543993 362752 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it has a pure subset, but I've never heard a convincing argument that haskell with IO is pure; people say that since getChar is always "the same getChar" it's referentially transparent, but nobody has a definition of "same" for IO actions
< 1326544001 664711 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have one
< 1326544005 603235 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :extensional equivalence
< 1326544017 567399 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no experiment by which you can distinguish "one getChar from another"
< 1326544034 196559 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway i don't want to argue about what "pure" means
< 1326544041 17729 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but evaluating getChar (like with seq) doesn't perform any IO
< 1326544044 56707 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just a fact
< 1326544046 423761 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a little lax for my tastes :P and yeah, I'm not saying it does
< 1326544059 706496 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it's the same standard by which you decide whether two functions are "the same"
< 1326544060 925463 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well whatever
< 1326544069 285026 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if we can't do that, we can't even say that "map" is referentially transparent
< 1326544070 16584 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: sure, but there /are/ experiments you can perform on functions
< 1326544079 318049 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are experiments you can perform on IO actions too
< 1326544085 914566 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you do one every time you run a haskell program
< 1326544099 133479 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see you're arguing about what "pure" means :P
< 1326544102 637970 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope
< 1326544125 790362 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-19-212.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1326544207 654643 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell has evaluation semantics and execution semantics
< 1326544237 150393 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the former is a calculus of referentially-transparent functions without side effects
< 1326544252 574610 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the latter is like an imperative programming language with effects and results
< 1326544276 760843 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION isn't up for arguing himself, but I *do* understand how IO works in Haskell and I don't think that it's "not really a monad" or "just impurity that you can't see" or whatever newbies say because of a lack of understanding
< 1326544280 227460 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :whether the combination of these forms a "pure functional programming language" is a stupid argument
< 1326544287 863706 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know you know how it works
< 1326544289 301850 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I agree that treating (IO a) as a model of an imperative program with result type a is just fine
< 1326544306 173656 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just think that it lets you consider far too many things that are completely impure in practice as pure
< 1326544309 729284 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you can model them that way
< 1326544387 517711 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't understand
< 1326544411 155684 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's ok
< 1326544419 717366 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1326544420 278926 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-163-58.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are there any pure imperative languages?
< 1326544427 811641 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-163-58.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would such thing have any point at all?
< 1326544451 107467 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sounds like a great excuse to argue about what "pure" and "imperative" mean
< 1326544476 15958 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you pressed me for a yes/no answer on "pure" and "imperative" I would say that Haskell is both
< 1326544483 93360 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this may be an unpopular viewpoint
< 1326544554 81618 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it's the wrong focus if you want to understand haskell or why it's good
< 1326544571 662057 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's much easier to agree on "Haskell code that does IO is too imperative and impure in style" than "Haskell is impure"
< 1326544583 715509 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"too imperative" by what standard
< 1326544594 830995 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :bring your own standards
< 1326544600 923534 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :compared to "the ideal"
< 1326544614 361984 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-163-58.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A little impurity is good for a language
< 1326544616 238567 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. it would be nicer if we could write code that interacts with the outside world in a more functional style
< 1326544638 246858 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-163-58.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How would that work?
< 1326544639 337512 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would say "declarative" rather than "functional"
< 1326544652 340691 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: yes. others would say "denotational" :P
< 1326544666 223036 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, well, a very simple example is interact :: (String -> String) -> IO ()
< 1326544668 180686 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the basic sentiment is the same
< 1326544679 296270 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1326544692 578995 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like declarative programming and it would be cool to use it in more areas
< 1326544711 622713 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :at the same time, i find imperative programming in Haskell to be pleasant enough
< 1326544736 448702 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, don't get me wrong -- Haskell's IO system is a good compromise and it's much more "crisply" defined than in most other languages
< 1326544764 899309 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it definitely bugs me to see people say "haskell is like the purest language ever and if you think IO is in any way imperative or 'impure in style' or anything you're just an idiot"
< 1326544767 494835 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ok, not in those words :P)
< 1326544799 280063 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-163-58.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Purest language ever... surely that would be a tie between a few esolangs?
< 1326544811 484269 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it's pretty much agreed that IO is an embedded imperative language
< 1326544812 60344 :Nisstyre!~yours@out-on-209.wireless.telus.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1326544820 336531 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :whether this makes Haskell overall "impure" is a meaningless argument about definitions
< 1326544830 434714 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-163-58.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, how can we say that language a is more or less pure than language b?
< 1326544846 572167 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-163-58.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is more pure? Java or C++?
< 1326544849 273690 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I think it's agreed in #haskell, but I don't think that's the same thing as "agreed by people who call themselves haskell programmers on the wider internet" :p
< 1326544857 332620 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shrug
< 1326544878 208410 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :to me Haskell is a pragmatic multiparadigm language with a good set of design tradeoffs
< 1326544891 639625 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i don't focus on ideological purity
< 1326544903 544759 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I've seen at least one person in here and one person on SO yell loudly about how stupid the "action" terminology is because "you wouldn't call (Maybe a) an action and IO is, like, just as pure as the rest of the nomads"
< 1326544912 353315 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly at least one of those people was dumb.
< 1326544924 960429 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's stupid
< 1326544932 213628 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-163-58.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nomads aren't pure.
< 1326544934 440950 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wouldn't call (Maybe a) a list either, but [a] is
< 1326544951 140323 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: well it was in reaction to saying "monadic actions" more generally
< 1326544956 652984 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I think it's perfectly reasonable to call (Maybe a) an action
< 1326544959 520465 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shrug
< 1326544963 512504 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think it matters
< 1326544973 256120 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think #haskell should agree on common terminology and push it
< 1326544978 104850 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead we just bicker about words
< 1326544992 316201 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, getting a few hundred people to agree on IRC
< 1326544995 922429 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ur funy
< 1326545007 297835 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway the *reason* i don't worry about whether Haskell is philosophically pure
< 1326545009 34748 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-163-58.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I avoid #haskell, mainly because I'm scared of big groups
< 1326545014 24425 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that i wish *other people* would see it as a pragmatic multiparadigm language with a good set of design tradeoffs
< 1326545046 933010 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than a language for extremists who argue all day about philosophical purity
< 1326545049 942424 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-163-58.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would say it is at least primarily functional, although has features from other paradigms
< 1326545087 334437 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: as an extremist i'm offended
< 1326545091 388141 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha
< 1326545094 834120 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :very well sir
< 1326545211 684892 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-163-58.as13285.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1326545456 205185 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in particular many of Haskell's strengths have nothing to do with "purity"
< 1326545694 187643 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in my "why learn Haskell" slides i talk only a little bit about "purity" and types
< 1326545786 175279 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i spend more time on stuff like EDSLs, lightweight concurrency, STM, semi-implicit parallelism, GHC 
< 1326545803 766382 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe purity is overrated but I don't think types are.
< 1326545808 704802 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :QuickCheck, Criterion, Threadscope, other tools, etc.
< 1326545824 441691 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't think Haskell is very well-suited to EDSLs... it excels at some of them but falls down for others
< 1326545867 387373 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :some of those features rely on purity, in the sense of "Haskell programmers tend to write lots of pure functions", not in the sense of "Haskell absolutely forbids you from writing an impure function"
< 1326545875 412887 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which of course, common implementations don't)
< 1326545938 616884 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yeah, types are pretty important
< 1326545945 218003 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's hard to convince someone of that in a few slides
< 1326545962 736304 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't try to convince people of things in a few slides :)
< 1326545968 850702 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well ok
< 1326545973 561163 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yeah, fair point.
< 1326545978 800935 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do, and I was talking about one effort to do so
< 1326546002 168283 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree that things like you listed are better sells under such constraints.
< 1326546002 361040 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the best case, you convince them that it's a useful feature for preventing mistakes
< 1326546005 956534 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is... still not that sexy
< 1326546021 812865 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, subconsciously I know that *I* don't make any mistakes
< 1326546047 78102 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but think about all the other terrible programmers you have to deal with!
< 1326546054 659517 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :See, we can sell Haskell on antagonism and ego.
< 1326546054 964975 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :they probably aren't using haskell
< 1326546058 567384 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like Ruby!
< 1326546060 604603 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha
< 1326546063 533345 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :touché
< 1326546113 322467 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway there was enough to fill an hour with "here's this amazing thing Haskell lets you do"
< 1326546137 70897 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that I didn't have to focus too much on the essentially negative "here's how Haskell protects you from the stupidity of yourself and others"
< 1326546148 584140 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i agree it's not a great EDSL host
< 1326546162 95043 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it's a pretty good EDSL host, and that this plays nicely with the other strengths of the language
< 1326546174 241387 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The question is a simple one. Must all operations on a TVar happen 
< 1326546174 711817 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :within *the same* atomically block, or am I am I guaranteed thread 
< 1326546174 874497 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :safety if, say, I have a number of atomically blocks in an IO 
< 1326546174 874685 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :function."
< 1326546181 857701 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wish Template Haskell weren't so fucking cumbersome; then we could have some better concrete syntax for EDSLs
< 1326546198 105658 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_O
< 1326546212 297178 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tell them to read the last chapter of RWH
< 1326546218 527717 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wants to live in a world where "atomically" means "atomicallyAndThenSome", and the layout of code into "IO functions" affects its semantics.
< 1326546223 321356 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I'd have to subscribe to haskell-cafe.
< 1326546235 175528 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead you just lurk and snark
< 1326546238 946439 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1326546246 569752 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's cool
< 1326546267 52097 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I think the kind of EDSLs Haskell is good at are the ones that are richer than Haskell.
< 1326546275 832215 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is to say "first-class" EDSLs.
< 1326546282 208000 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. Parsec and so on.
< 1326546290 767104 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The problems come when you can't embed Haskell in them, e.g. anything you're trying to compile
< 1326546306 482315 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1326546332 451584 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then you just have to fall back on ugly typeclass hacks and in the end you get sick of Eq because it forces (==) to mean something rather than letting you use any "boolean" you want :P
< 1326546352 123076 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this would be solvable in principle
< 1326546382 235428 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thinks there are a few promising ways to solve it, and I think solving it would be a great way to create a language better than Haskell.
< 1326546412 454771 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a *lot* of this kind of stuff being done -- anything that does observable sharing is essentially working around Haskell's DSL-related weaknesses, for example.
< 1326546418 884973 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1326546430 397667 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well first you want to unify something like Template Haskell with something like GHC API, only hopefully make both of them a lot less shitty
< 1326546465 338709 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thinks that would be very (very) valuable, but isn't sure it's the best basis for most EDSLs
< 1326546469 403281 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, you can construct a Haskell AST, then compile it and use it as a function
< 1326546472 761384 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :metaprogramming in haskell sucks right now
< 1326546494 787087 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can do this at "compile time" or at "run time", and hopefully the distinction between the two is not so pronounced
< 1326546509 713309 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Have you seen the http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~megacz/garrows/ stuff?
< 1326546520 920307 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, started reading it a while ago
< 1326546523 111972 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't get very far
< 1326546525 678840 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1326546529 787397 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like arrows, but it's very interesting.
< 1326546548 177712 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And seems to be able to do an awful lot of DSL-y stuff that isn't really possible now.
< 1326546557 159763 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The syntax is ugly though.
< 1326546598 282684 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :they get bonus style points for implementing part of GHC in Coq
< 1326546627 475669 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm always surprised that Coq extraction actually works in practice.
< 1326546674 536730 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so how would you solve the problem
< 1326546687 86761 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :other than better macros and staged compilation
< 1326546874 908163 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Well, I think it involves restructuring the language at a bit of a deeper level to be truly natural. Things like using typeclasses for the kind of introspective overloading you see is basically just trying to selectively override the language's semantics, which is generally really awkward in Haskell. (The AwesomePrelude thing takes this to its logical conclusion, and it's not pretty.) I can imagine a language which essentially does the equiv
< 1326546875 70127 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :alent of having a typeclass for each language feature -- conditionals, pattern-matching, self-reference, duplicating values, etc. -- and you can override that piecemeal so that all the same syntax and meaning is retained, but in possibly a more restricted setting; you'd have a bracket mechanism which would let you write code in a new semantics. That's basically what the generalised arrow stuff is doing, to my understanding; there's a typeclass fo
< 1326546875 899398 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :r each additional language feature, and the code you write is just unrolled into a bunch of those.
< 1326546898 200924 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see
< 1326546906 707584 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should learn more about garrows then
< 1326546917 327050 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want to be *really* radical, you could eliminate the bracketing entirely, and direct the overriding of the semantics by the types -- i.e. if something is expecting an argument in a certain semantics, those semantics are used when you fill in that argument.
< 1326546990 385435 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: That also ties in with more language-based support for effects; e.g. you could easily define a semantics that supports every such "language ability" but that does nondeterministic computation, and you'd get the equivalent of the list monad but with the same syntax as the outer language.
< 1326547046 42681 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hasn't read all of the GArrows stuff, but intends to sometime. What I've read is basically similar to all this, except that it's very explicit about what's "metaprogramming" and what's not -- there's a leap from "normal Haskell" to "metaprogramming stuff".
< 1326547104 657983 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: And, of course, opting out of implementing a certain capability lets you do things like the kind of optimisations you can do to applicative/arrow-based parsers.
< 1326547121 648383 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except more aggressive, since you have full access to the *entire* structure of the EDSL program.
< 1326547133 269643 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Nothing hiding behind an "arr", etc.)
< 1326547234 1085 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It wouldn't even be a large leap from that to make the language self-extending on an even deeper level -- if you can define your own language capabilities (and I don't see what would stop you, if everything was appropriately first-class -- indeed, I'd expect most extensions (like nondeterministic computation) would be implemented by defining a new capability for that, and giving a canonical implementation), then all you need to be able to do is d
< 1326547234 163102 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :efine new syntax for those capabilities and it becomes as good as a native language feature.
< 1326547240 993908 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That might be going further down the Lisp path than most people would like, though.
< 1326547269 757302 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1326547280 901335 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's already controversy over "how typed" template haskell should be
< 1326547313 313380 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1326547338 717623 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the proposal to give it a typed layer, but allow access to just AST-mangling, is probably the best thing for it as it stands
< 1326547373 304783 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I think that in a more ideal language, TH would be basically completely untyped, because well-typed things would be expressible directly, without having to resort to a special "metaprogramming macro processing" facility
< 1326548062 72453 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1326548064 13164 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes sense
< 1326548065 217678 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1326548911 321873 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-207-13.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1326548935 105809 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-193-174.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1326549223 914042 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Need help indexing XML files into Solr using DataImportHandler
< 1326549224 113369 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know java, I don't know XML, and I don't know Lucene. Now that that's out of the way. I have been working to create a little project using apache solr/lucene. My problem is that I am unable to index the xml files.
< 1326549235 291574 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[...] I am not sure what information is required for you to help me so I will just post the code.
< 1326550559 686946 :primo!~maik@ppp-110-169-204-219.revip5.asianet.co.th QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1326550674 874212 :Nisstyre!~yours@c-208-90-102-250.netflash.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1326551123 133768 :Nisstyre!~yours@c-208-90-102-250.netflash.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1326551463 123646 :Nisstyre!~yours@c-208-90-102-250.netflash.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1326553131 455342 :primo!~maik@ppp-110-169-217-119.revip5.asianet.co.th JOIN :#esoteric
< 1326553151 27466 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1326553171 333398 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :RIP Phantom_Hoover
< 1326553368 81604 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1326553438 637650 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :eek a zombie
< 1326553536 315909 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :RIP us all
< 1326553556 936200 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :%rip
< 1326553584 24268 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mv %rip, usall
< 1326553587 451947 :primo!~maik@ppp-110-169-217-119.revip5.asianet.co.th QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1326553598 298777 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-163-58.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1326553659 545291 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-163-58.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello!
< 1326553670 57720 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1326553689 50412 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi Ngevd
< 1326553733 212516 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-163-58.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How did your Haskell thing-that's-a-bit-like-an-argument-but-you-both-agree go?
< 1326553758 261248 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think that's called a "discussion"
< 1326553779 869679 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway the logs are public
< 1326553788 304832 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-163-58.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know, I've read them.
< 1326553796 644280 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-163-58.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just want to make conversation
< 1326553814 275831 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not allowed
< 1326553817 29205 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :only arguments
< 1326553967 454701 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-163-58.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> ap (.) (join (.) (ap (.) (join (.)))) (*2) 1
< 1326553968 858270 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  1024
< 1326553981 240924 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lols
< 1326554003 620650 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-163-58.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> ap (.) (join (.) (ap (.) (join (.)))) (join (+)) 1
< 1326554004 864990 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  1024
< 1326554046 172789 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is probably what Ngevd's new haskell program actually looks like
< 1326554068 807913 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-163-58.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah, I'm just playing with MIBBLLII
< 1326554095 770009 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-163-58.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lambdabot can be used as a non-compliant interpreter for a similar language to MIBBLLII
< 1326554280 872880 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-163-58.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t ap id id
< 1326554281 580502 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :    Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: a = a -> b
< 1326554281 741688 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :    Probable cause: `id' is applied to too few arguments
< 1326554281 741892 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :    In the second argument of `ap', namely `id'
< 1326554284 930592 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool
< 1326554291 468313 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :an esolang that looks like brainfuck but isn't
< 1326554307 346827 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :compared to the usual esolangs that don't look like brainfuck but are
< 1326554327 630435 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-163-58.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The functions ap, join, const, id, flip, and (.) match up 1 to 1 with MIBBLLII combinators
< 1326554347 168121 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-163-58.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :As long as you work in the ... (->) r monad ???
< 1326554347 619406 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Or the ones that look like, and are brainfuck.
< 1326554376 332404 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-163-58.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or something?
< 1326554387 566141 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-163-58.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :As long as you have Control.Monad and Control.Monad.Instances
< 1326554391 43255 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Zoo_Tycoon_2_Cheats_Money
< 1326554413 464817 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-163-58.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have spambots been attacking spam articles?
< 1326554456 758143 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would totally use a language named Zoo Tycoon 2 Cheats Money
< 1326554501 46367 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-163-58.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shall we create a language by that name?
< 1326554542 488428 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1326554551 401130 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-163-58.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zoo == objects, tycoon == control structures, 2 == ...arithmetic?, cheats == functions./subroutines
< 1326554560 143266 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-163-58.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :money == finance library?
< 1326554589 916298 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it will be brainfuck except the instructions are encoded as the phrases "Wikipedia", "game money prize tree", "free money woman", "money and mbti", "trace a money order", "europes history on money", "find instantly low money price search", and "how much money to bring to europe"
< 1326554608 523634 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-163-58.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No.
< 1326554763 35631 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1326554815 519350 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually you should invent a language such that we can execute these spam pages
< 1326554837 688431 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :has there been any work towards designing programming languages specifically for stoned people
< 1326554848 876263 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess there are PLs for children, and that's kind of similar
< 1326555302 359851 :Nisstyre!~yours@c-208-90-102-250.netflash.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1326555509 364586 :Nisstyre!~yours@c-208-90-102-250.netflash.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1326555826 898156 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1326556358 51376 :cheater!~cheater@dslb-084-057-001-153.pools.arcor-ip.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1326556441 731275 :primo!~maik@ppp-110-169-217-119.revip5.asianet.co.th JOIN :#esoteric
< 1326556873 11534 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :asldkfjaksdlfldskjakdlfldskjaksldfldksjaksdlf
< 1326556985 624784 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1326557464 796235 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-163-58.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hehehe
< 1326558812 297373 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-154-32.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1326558856 688930 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-207-13.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds
< 1326559405 984735 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1326559487 702216 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan JOIN :#esoteric
< 1326560295 553692 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-148-111.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1326560326 115814 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-154-32.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1326560487 405499 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1326560529 339930 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1326560571 427563 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi QUIT :Quit: Server going down for maintenance.
< 1326561482 58275 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1326561609 824356 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the way i see it the main role of mathematics in esolang design is to provide the language designer with a look at the primitive elements of programming languages instead of making a hopped up basic clone
< 1326561959 88229 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :more accurately, thats what it means to me
< 1326562077 125614 :Phantom_Vax!~phantomho@cpc1-sgyl29-2-0-cust632.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1326562095 910101 :Phantom_Vax!~phantomho@cpc1-sgyl29-2-0-cust632.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello everybody.
< 1326562141 357493 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Vax: Please tell me you're using an OpenVMS emulator.
< 1326562144 396208 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-163-58.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: Poor timing, Phantom_Vax
< 1326562147 349101 :Phantom_Vax!~phantomho@cpc1-sgyl29-2-0-cust632.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1326562567 232806 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i'm concocting a diabolical language possibly using some kind of message passing, but since i don't know in detail what message passing is i'm not entirely sure
< 1326562579 198556 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah.
< 1326562640 828110 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the idea is really terrible, and "concocting a language" said in this room can mean something other than what i am doing since people here tend to actually create and finish languages and i don't
< 1326562720 44136 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually its such a terrible idea that it just might work, but i have left little to go on in my posts
< 1326562748 895951 :sebbu3!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu
< 1326562862 263788 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-161-147-186.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1326563009 287523 :Phantom_Vax!~phantomho@cpc1-sgyl29-2-0-cust632.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1326563048 186184 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok the fundamental idea is an operator which can tell you if an object has a member of a specific type, and if it does you can access it directly through a local name
< 1326563100 79661 :Phantom_Vax!~phantomho@cpc1-sgyl29-2-0-cust632.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1326563105 361643 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort of like saying, does this object contain a string member? if it does then call that string s and do toupper(s)
< 1326563166 993005 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this could run into some kind of trouble when an object has multiple members of the same type but thats another story
< 1326563317 270825 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan JOIN :#esoteric
< 1326563331 889346 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if that sounds weird, the idea gets even weirder the more i explore it
< 1326563955 362842 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out
< 1326564668 258959 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1326565407 498790 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1326565766 104083 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1326565817 312877 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote some of my own Arrows stuff because I don't like the existing one much. The purpose of "arr" is moved into a different class called CatFunctor and you can have from any category, doesn't have to be (->) and in addition, the (,) does not have to be (,) you can have any type of kind (* -> * -> *) used for a specific CatArrow. Purpose of ArrowChoice is just done by a dual category, now.
< 1326565866 228815 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you've said
< 1326565979 262482 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a way to abuse a monad of some sort to get nice syntax without -XArrows?
< 1326566045 358846 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a "bind-like operator"
< 1326566047 146321 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION blinsk
< 1326566051 364251 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :blinsk
< 1326566054 675377 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nblinks
< 1326566098 207447 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@70.255.226.246 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1326566098 562957 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@70.255.226.246 QUIT :Changing host
< 1326566098 731734 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan JOIN :#esoteric
< 1326566116 527465 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could have sworn I saw something though
< 1326566203 484249 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you agree that "arr" in Control.Arrow is really a kind of functor (not an endofunctor)?
< 1326566256 926235 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has no idea what the difference is
< 1326566321 799204 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Difference of what?
< 1326566338 838901 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :functors and endofunctors
< 1326566363 765920 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :endofunctor is a functor from a category to itself.
< 1326566365 835555 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Endofunctor is a functor from a category to itself. The Functor class in Haskell make endofunctor from (->) category to itself
< 1326566395 138841 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :functors are comparable to morphisms over categories.
< 1326566408 701694 :Phantom_Vax!~phantomho@cpc1-sgyl29-2-0-cust632.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Functions /are/ morphisms, you dolt.
< 1326566408 937606 :toruk-mack!~newbie@189.20.210.156 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1326566417 616586 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in fact I believe many of them are morphisms in the category of small categories.)
< 1326566439 392544 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but not all?? not sure)
< 1326566478 206957 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is Internet Quiz Engine good to you?
< 1326566486 770805 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes it is legitimate.
< 1326566488 68850 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is not relevant to me.
< 1326566591 791831 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But gopher://zzo38computer.foeug3g47fgeg34.ch3p-h4rbl-vjaagra.co.ng:22/../../warez2.php not only looks wrong, and uses . as the type, but doesn't even resolve. I am unsure why kmc posted this wrong URL, possibly to confuse you???
< 1326566707 841601 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome toruk-mack
< 1326566712 435838 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :toruk-mack: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
< 1326566736 546783 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell kmc Explain yourself!!!1
< 1326566736 901800 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted.
< 1326566737 885612 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :toruk-mack: Are you good at esolang?????
< 1326566767 573350 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :TG: (omg still lolig @ that word boner i made ooomg) 
< 1326566785 442582 :toruk-mack!~newbie@189.20.210.156 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, wrong channel
< 1326566790 184010 :toruk-mack!~newbie@189.20.210.156 PART #esoteric :"Leaving"
< 1326566874 85570 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(
< 1326566894 702572 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`@ past-toruk-mack ? esoteric
< 1326566898 802792 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :past-toruk-mack: This channel is about programming -- for the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.
< 1326567265 270364 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're still online
< 1326567276 835651 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION messages
< 1326567303 462879 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes I checked that too
< 1326567311 933425 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I have no message to write to them.
< 1326567327 611027 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION just sent "for the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net."
< 1326567367 109817 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: It work if it was what they were looking for, which is possible, however
< 1326567581 477924 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is DALnet down?
< 1326567636 714898 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you try connecting or ping or whatever?
< 1326567665 166520 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes it seem down to me.
< 1326567669 71276 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :No ping
< 1326567909 297675 :Phantom_Vax!~phantomho@cpc1-sgyl29-2-0-cust632.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com QUIT :Changing host
< 1326567909 459474 :Phantom_Vax!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1326567920 709658 :Phantom_Vax!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 NICK :Phantom_Hoover
< 1326568003 140951 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1326568046 41056 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what would be annoying about only having gender neutral pronouns is that you could only refer to two things at the same time
< 1326568064 768392 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in English you can refer to at least 4 things unambiguously via pronouns.
< 1326568092 932911 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose as a compromise would be to invent more than one gender-neutral pronoun
< 1326568095 947882 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :for different kinds of.. things.
< 1326568111 565157 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: That only works if the things you're referring to are of different genders.
< 1326568126 908281 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ...yes, that's what I mean.
< 1326568136 368552 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, so it's not much of an advantage.
< 1326568141 34033 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, people don't seem to have any problem in languages which use "it" for everything.
< 1326568151 756864 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the difference between it and he or she or they is pretty useful.
< 1326568158 509954 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Making pronouns gender-neutral only to immediately re-segregate them by some other means is ridiculous.
< 1326568170 823277 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: No?
< 1326568179 974734 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: I mean, I really doubt you ever talk about that many things at once without using names.
< 1326568184 846518 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure.
< 1326568185 660385 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because that would be impossible to follow.
< 1326568223 512653 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it happens frequently enough
< 1326568239 845920 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and anyway there's no reason not to "resegregate" the pronouns by grammatical or conceptual distinctions
< 1326568244 195817 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that have nothing to do with people.
< 1326568265 619421 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well
< 1326568270 58090 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could involve people
< 1326568289 315594 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example you could have a pronoun for humans, and a pronoun for everything else
< 1326568292 299334 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or
< 1326568295 592134 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't think it happens frequently enough.
< 1326568296 613382 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :a pronoun for livings things, and a pronoun for inanimate things.
< 1326568302 407440 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You mean they vs. it?
< 1326568307 642888 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"he knew that it was a bad idea"
< 1326568309 428285 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what if you want to refer generally to both humans and nonhumans
< 1326568314 794738 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, there's real data on this, i.e. every language without such a distinction, so unless you're a linguist...
< 1326568323 519264 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"she took it from me"  (thieving bitch)
< 1326568333 86357 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1326568336 56002 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :There can be one for living, one for inanimate, but then, is there going to be one for ideas?
< 1326568350 867807 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: note that I am not in any way saying that these languages are somehow crippled in their expressiveness
< 1326568356 835682 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :just that having multiple kinds of pronouns is a convenience.
< 1326568372 314935 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but also an inconvenience
< 1326568390 712781 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yes that would be good. :)
< 1326568399 695840 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shrugs violently
< 1326568407 75445 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sighs EXPLOSIVELY
< 1326568425 600469 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i sure do love wild conjecture
< 1326568433 941698 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: do tell. what is my conjecture.
< 1326568449 202811 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1326568460 541541 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz JOIN :#esoteric
< 1326568541 355945 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway it happens all the time in storytelling. It's pretty frequent that you have a sentence involving a person and an inanimate that were both previously mentioned.
< 1326568573 686431 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION conjectures wildly.
< 1326568604 139135 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you think persons and inanimates are so easily-confusable that we cannot deduce that from context like the billion other things we do on a regular basis?
< 1326568715 809668 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, no.
< 1326568750 294153 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I simply assumed it was bad style in those languages to use the same pronoun in the same sentence to mean different things.
< 1326568757 893741 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if that's common then... that works too.
< 1326568948 961314 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the person/non-person distinction isn't unheard of in other languages. For example Finnish.
< 1326568957 651642 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PART :#esoteric
< 1326569061 468259 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: It doesn't appear in colloquial Finnish, from what I've heard in here.
< 1326569069 722669 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"it" is used for everything.
< 1326569135 284692 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah I see
< 1326569341 520774 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :The demonstratives are used of non-human animate entities and inanimate objects. However, se and ne are often used to refer to humans in colloquial Finnish. (This usage is quite correct in a demonstrative sense, i.e. when qualified by the relative pronoun joka, and in fact it is hypercorrect to replace a demonstrative se or ne with hän or he just because the antecedent is human.) 
< 1326569532 102718 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, zzo38 and I are going to go invent a language with at least 20 pronouns
< 1326569627 163362 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and maybe some distinctions between pro-adjectives and pro-verbs and pro-adverbs
< 1326569630 122458 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also pro-sentences.
< 1326569641 201648 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a language for pros.
< 1326569765 513810 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :to get the other words, we'll take a dataset of every word in every language and its meaning, and then reassign it a different meaning using `words
< 1326569771 601901 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er
< 1326569775 469304 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :different name rather
< 1326569809 459837 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the end result will be that there's probably like 50 ways to say "dog"
< 1326569833 853267 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(assuming 50 languages were uses, and none of those languages have more than one way to say dog)
< 1326570395 978671 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl $x = qr[(a)]g; print "a a a a" =~ $x; 
< 1326570399 195954 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bareword found where operator expected at /tmp/input.17425 line 1, near "qr[(a)]g" \ syntax error at /tmp/input.17425 line 1, near "qr[(a)]g" \ Execution of /tmp/input.17425 aborted due to compilation errors.
< 1326570422 100822 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl $x = qr/(a)/g; print "a a a a" =~ $x; 
< 1326570422 645757 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bareword found where operator expected at /tmp/input.17496 line 1, near "qr/(a)/g" \ syntax error at /tmp/input.17496 line 1, near "qr/(a)/g" \ Execution of /tmp/input.17496 aborted due to compilation errors.
< 1326570427 317434 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm
< 1326570432 873224 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl $x = qr/(a)/; print "a a a a" =~ $x; 
< 1326570433 369034 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :a
< 1326570438 595679 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl $x = qr/(a)/; print "a a a a" =~ /$x/g; 
< 1326570439 27252 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :aaaa
< 1326570468 894832 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1326570557 501596 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1326570862 976982 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1326570935 785995 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1326571036 791314 :_Slereah!~butt@ANantes-259-1-238-29.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1326571136 330716 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1326571169 132296 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oerjan
< 1326571190 777408 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1326571599 59251 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1326571667 198907 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1326571680 965364 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow so I got $25 for setting up a simple HTML5 audio player, and then got $10 to write the ugly terrible hack to load an embedded player in the event of IE.
< 1326571684 680729 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's wrong with this picture.
< 1326571699 332128 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"some one always irritate me an facebook massage, he use mobile for post massage. i want to know his mobile no, is there any way ?" what a good answer
< 1326571714 487219 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...answer?
< 1326571717 1013 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: web audio players
< 1326571727 988801 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: regardless of that.
< 1326571789 662135 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote fought for
< 1326571793 938997 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :459)  elliott: You have become the very thing you fought for!
< 1326571822 817231 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what is meaning of that massage.
< 1326571921 789871 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1326572015 238374 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :IE doesn't support