00:04:54 -!- augur has joined. 00:08:51 -!- kallisti_ has changed nick to kallisti. 00:10:27 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:19:38 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:29:09 -!- augur has joined. 00:32:27 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:41:09 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:03:54 -!- derdon has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:07:16 -!- itanimulliz has joined. 01:12:18 -!- itanimulliz has quit (Quit: Leaving). 01:24:39 -!- cheater has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 02:10:19 -!- pikhq has joined. 02:10:24 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 02:11:19 -!- Vorpal has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 02:16:59 -!- pir^2 has changed nick to ShuffIe. 02:18:14 -!- ShuffIe has changed nick to pir^2. 02:37:10 -!- pir^2 has quit (Quit: bye). 02:51:32 kallisti has been updated. 02:54:06 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: onestepforwardthenonerightdating). 02:56:21 I see that the topic madness has gotten out of hand. 02:56:48 im tears 02:59:19 the 03:02:41 -!- Frooxius has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:03:11 -!- Frooxius has joined. 03:27:06 -!- Frooxius has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:27:36 -!- Frooxius has joined. 03:33:01 -!- chicken has joined. 03:36:15 -!- Frooxius has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:37:12 -!- Frooxius has joined. 03:45:57 -!- azaq23 has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 04:01:15 -!- augur has joined. 04:51:01 wow lambdabot is amazing 04:52:24 hi 04:55:02 hi monqy. hi itidus21. 04:55:29 hi quintopia. hi monqy. 04:55:32 hi 06:13:11 LOOK AT MY LAMBDABOT 06:13:34 my what a big lambdabot you have 06:13:55 thank you. but i would never sell my lambdabot so fuck off. 06:13:58 asshole. 06:15:40 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:15:53 my what a big asshole you have 06:15:56 why doesn't Do have a wiki page? 06:16:05 -!- yorick has joined. 06:16:11 it surely do 06:19:38 http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p5855779463.txt here's the spec if someone wants to 07:02:36 fizzie: o 07:03:08 or anyone who can call finland, i need to find my cellphone :D 07:19:52 considers typing (2^43,112,609)-1 in unary 07:20:29 hi 07:21:19 111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111hi monqy1111111111111111111111111111[...] 07:21:45 11111sorry this act is taking more time than i expected11111111111[...] 07:36:04 oklopol: Is this still RELEVANT. (I was getting to wurk.) 07:44:59 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 07:44:59 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 07:44:59 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 07:46:52 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 07:48:29 -!- sebbu3 has joined. 07:48:29 -!- sebbu3 has quit (Changing host). 07:48:29 -!- sebbu3 has joined. 07:51:36 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 08:11:55 -!- nooga has joined. 08:40:29 -!- cheater has joined. 09:20:11 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 09:21:52 -!- Slereah has joined. 09:51:21 -!- derdon has joined. 09:56:25 fizzie: nope, it was hidden in my bed 09:56:35 (no idea how that's possible) 09:58:04 -!- Jafet has joined. 10:00:21 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 10:03:02 I dreamed I bought an iPad. That's weird. 10:04:31 Freud something something 10:07:07 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 10:07:18 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 10:15:09 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit (Quit: The Other Game). 10:35:18 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 10:36:48 -!- derdon has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:55:09 Gbleh, peak low in Foreca's five-day forecast for here in Espoo is -27 °C. Brrr, winter. 11:08:08 -!- mroman has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:35:50 -!- ais523 has joined. 11:59:54 -!- cheater has quit (Read error: Connection timed out). 12:01:26 -!- cheater has joined. 12:06:09 happy mailman mailing list reminders day! 12:12:00 -!- sebbu3 has changed nick to sebbu. 12:15:34 Funny-story-time. I was google-mapsing the campus of this place I'll be visiting, and one building was marked "IMEC". Thought I'd click on it to see what it's about. Before I could click, however, up popped a tooltip that said only "The worst cafeteria in the world.", nothing else. 12:15:45 Apparently that's one of the "Google Reviews" for the place. 12:15:57 "8 out of 40 people found this review helpful." 12:15:59 heh 12:21:28 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Convert 12:21:35 Oh dear god how can this thing possibly work. 12:21:49 ais523, you know the horrors of MW template markup better than I. 12:22:37 oh, it's just {{convert}} 12:22:53 let's just say it's tagged {{esoteric}} for a reason 12:23:18 but the template itself is basically just a jump table 12:28:21 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:29:09 -!- ais523 has joined. 12:49:02 -!- oerjan has joined. 12:57:37 07:19:52: considers typing (2^43,112,609)-1 in unary <-- you realize even binary will take months? 12:58:06 only months? 12:58:28 i guess its then a function of calculating the time to hold down the key 12:58:36 haha 12:58:55 000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 12:59:08 that was 5 seconds on my keyboard 12:59:19 i guess there could be some network delay as well 12:59:48 > length "000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000" 12:59:49 126 13:00:11 > 43112609/25/86400 13:00:12 19.959541203703704 13:00:17 oh hm 13:00:23 actually just 20 days 13:00:32 SO GO AHEAD, THEN 13:00:34 what does (2^43,112,609) mean 13:00:45 oklopol: freaky english notation 13:01:04 (2^43,112,609) MINUS ONE 13:01:31 given the accuracy of my keyboard measurement, i don't think i'm going to worry about the minus one. 13:01:37 oh 2^(43,112,609)-1 where , means 13:01:42 ? 13:01:59 Thousands separator 13:02:06 yes, oklopol. how cosmopolitanly realized of you. 13:02:07 heheheh 13:02:13 The standard AT keyboard controller can go up to 30.0 characters per second; though systems can nowadays do any sort of rate in software. 13:02:16 Deewiant: yeah so it means 13:02:16 > 5*30 13:02:17 150 13:02:22 That's not too far off from 126. 13:02:38 i was aware when i typed it that i should have just typed 43112609 to avoid regional diffeercnes 13:02:51 but i didn't cos i don't know those regional differences 13:03:11 well 126 means essentially 25 13:03:26 anyway oerjan, 20 days is because i came up with the efficient method of pre-calculating the key holding time 13:03:49 ok you worked out the details 13:03:53 credit where its due 13:04:03 accuracy is another problem 13:04:21 since it has to be exactly the right number of keypresses 13:05:24 The AT rate list is nonuniformly spaced; it's 2.0, 2.1, 2.3, 2.5, 2.7, 3.0, 3.3, 3.7, 4.0, 4.3, 4.6, 5.0, 5.5, 6.0, 6.7, 7.5, 8.0, 8.6, 9.2, 10.0, 10.9, 12.0, 13.3, 15.0, 16.0, 17.1, 18.5, 20.0, 21.8, 24.0, 26.7, 30.0. (But 1/rate is sort-of piecewise linear.) 13:05:39 Sparc systems go up to 50 cps, I remember that being SO FAST. 13:05:47 That's, like, ten days. 13:06:42 itidus21: tricky. but i guess editors can keep track of that. 13:07:02 assuming you find one which can handle lines that long. 13:07:23 oerjan: when i envisioned the idea initially i imagined the painstaking anxiety caused by looking at a stream of 1s and keeping count 13:07:50 itidus21: ah, inventing a new spot in hell, i take. 13:08:35 "OK, your punishment isn't eternal, you just have to type this number, correctly." 13:08:44 :)) 13:08:54 but sir.. this keyboard.. only has 1 ley 13:08:58 ^key 13:09:24 hmm i could allow for backspace and enter keys also 13:09:25 3 keys 13:09:49 oh and left and right keys 13:09:52 "no backspace, although if you make a mistake you may reboot" 13:10:31 and then i paused for thought 13:11:09 i wonder if useful unary lambda calculus programs correlate with some category of numbers 13:13:08 perl -e 'print "0"x43112609;' > tmp.tmp; vi tmp.tmp; => "tmp.tmp" [noeol] 1L, 43112609C; but $ moves the cursor to column 43112609 with no problems, though it did spend quite a while thinking when loading the file. 13:13:35 And, uh, moving is quite laggy. 13:14:00 well a useful lambda calculus program pretty much has to begin with (, so what does that imply for the unary version? 13:14:44 "File tmp.txt is large (41MB), really open? (y or n)" -- heh, Emacs is being careful. 13:14:47 incidentally http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Largest_known_prime_number :P 13:15:13 ah right, it looked a little mersenny 13:15:17 Opens rather fast, though there's an almost-second delay when moving the cursor. 13:15:32 so yes.. you don't have to feel foolish for taking an interest in it 13:15:46 fizzie: why are you editing a text file of 43112609 zeroes anyway? something to do with Unary? 13:16:37 oerjan: i don't have a clue really..... to me unary lambda calc is a magical idea 13:17:02 ais523: how did you get switched with Vorpal 13:17:03 what's that esolang that's Unlambda except with no combinators? 13:17:14 oerjan: Vorpal's started acting like me, anyway 13:17:44 He has? 13:17:46 and the scrollback only implies that itidus21 is trying to enter 2^43112609-1, not why 13:17:53 Phantom_Hoover: I didn't mean to say that 13:17:59 I haven't actually seen him in forever. 13:18:01 I meant "has Vorpal started acting like me, then?" 13:18:03 ais523: he didn't explain that, i think 13:18:08 and got confused midsentence 13:18:12 laughs aloud @ and the scrollback[...] 13:18:13 except with his last link maybe 13:18:27 the last link certainly didn't explain it! 13:18:36 nothing on earth could explain it 13:19:04 oerjan: According to Mathematics(TM), ais523 is the third-most-likely author for Vorpal-written text. (The first two most likely are Vorpal, and AnMaster.) 13:19:16 but on the last link theres a hint 13:19:18 fizzie: is that just line length analysis? 13:19:34 it lists the number as having 12,978,189 digits 13:19:59 and i guess i thought to myself, that would be even worse in unary 13:20:06 itidus21: careful with that @, it's going to get search-replaced some time in the future 13:20:09 ais523: No, it's from that thing which I pasted earlier, using the mixture-of-bernoulli models with different sort of binary features related to word length/line length/personal-pronoun-use/punctuation/whatever. 13:20:15 ah, OK 13:20:18 I think I might have missed that 13:20:32 who has the highest whatever score? 13:20:40 ahh ... so the number will have 2^43112609-1 unary digits !?! 13:20:43 It's the thing where you correctly divined that the "’m not in a mood for non-trivial INTERCAL program 13:20:48 s" was your comment. 13:20:51 aha 13:21:03 i was thinking about how mathematical notation saves an awful lot of typing 13:21:05 Also apparently pasting from the slides was a bad idea, and what's that silly-apostrophe doing there. 13:21:58 fizzie: looks like you pasted from a PDF 13:22:00 a kind of extension of some old chinese story about writing number 1 with one line, 2 with two lines, 3 with three lines, then someone asks him to write the character for 10,000 13:22:08 I did, yes. 13:22:10 and he goes on trying to write ten thousand lines 13:22:17 i.e. most of the characters are right, but special characters are swapped with different special characters, and line breaks appear in entirely the wrong places 13:22:19 ais523: For your comments, the three most likely authors are ais523, AnMaster, and oerjan, in that order. 13:22:30 fizzie: hmm 13:22:35 did you normalize away ais523_? 13:22:54 basically that the exponent notation is more than syntactic sugar 13:22:56 In the sense of disregarding it. This was a simple thing. 13:22:59 (I'm actually curious as to whether I talk differently as ais523 and ais523_; I use the nicks in different circumstances) 13:23:01 ah, OK 13:23:09 but makes some numbers expressible which would not be readily cognizeable in unary form 13:23:25 I had AnMaster and Vorpal as separate entities, as well as ehird, elliott and alise. 13:23:55 And it correctly "found" those groupings, in the sense that they had relatively speaking highest mutual confusion potential there. 13:24:29 Though oerjan and oklopol are very much like one person, too. (Suspicious?) 13:25:06 ok in other words, its a lot easier to reason about 2^43112609-1 apples by using the text "2^43112609-1" than it is to actually produce 2^43112609-1 apples 13:25:34 `addquote ok in other words, its a lot easier to reason about 2^43112609-1 apples by using the text "2^43112609-1" than it is to actually produce 2^43112609-1 apples 13:25:46 806) ok in other words, its a lot easier to reason about 2^43112609-1 apples by using the text "2^43112609-1" than it is to actually produce 2^43112609-1 apples 13:26:25 fizzie: eek 13:26:46 fizzie: i assume this room is not like that. 13:26:53 there will be hell to pay if it is 13:27:04 like what 13:27:17 like counting to 2^43112609-1 in unary 13:27:21 oh 13:27:31 like people using multiple personas to chat 13:28:22 I had AnMaster and Vorpal as separate entities, as well as ehird, elliott and alise. 13:28:36 `quote itidus 13:28:40 470) to assume that someone can be described by a rule without exception... is to assume they are omnipotent for instance stones are omnipotent, as they don't do anything, without exception \ 493) monqy: last night in my dreams I saw a false photo album of my childhood... looking ghostly \ 494) itidus20: i saw a dancing cgi skeleton named malaria. i danced and played with him. 13:28:53 Have you compared Phantom_Hoover, Phantom__Hoover and Phantom___Hoover to see if the stress of my router hating me takes its toll? 13:29:20 2^43112609-1 was the first discovered "prime number of over 10 million digits." 13:29:25 `? Phantom___Hoover 13:29:29 Phantom___Hoover ? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 13:29:42 argh 13:29:45 `? Phantom___Hoover 13:29:48 Phantom___Hoover sucks at ghosting himself. 13:30:01 oh right, it wasn't that command i fixed the issue for 13:30:47 oklopol: but stones decay eventually 13:31:02 :> 13:31:14 it's a little crazy that they haven't found any efficient-to-calculate formula which gives unbounded prime numbers 13:31:25 i forget where that conversation went 13:31:30 Prime numbers in general are crazy. 13:31:34 Prime numbers are a little crazy... aw, snap. 13:32:02 I mean, they have such a stupidly simple method of generation, and yet they don't submit to any easy form of analysis at all. 13:32:19 Everything we have is vague asymptoty stuff. 13:32:24 you know there are heaps of them, and approximately how many, but pinning down one of large size is still a hard problem 13:32:40 *how many in each interval 13:33:20 Also there's the prime directive, which forbids you from bringing information about large-valued primes into societies that have not yet found primes of equal magnitude. Or something like that, anyway. 13:37:20 i saw yesterday something relevant at http://www.mezzacotta.net/postcard/about.php, but you'll have to reload until you see something about WOW! signal, as i have no idea how to link to a specific one 13:37:26 and it's too long to paste 13:40:30 http://sprunge.us/VdbI in case someone doesn't feel like reloading. 13:40:54 fizzie: thanks: I was trying to find it by reloading but haven't yet 13:41:22 (Also there's a wikilink to the Wow! signal that got dropped by the pasteying.) 13:41:45 i spent a while reloading it yesterday and i'm _still_ not entirely sure i got all of them. almost sure, though. 13:44:59 oerjan: mathematically it's impossible to ever be sure 13:45:20 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:45:21 and given that you can't even assume they all have the same probability, you can't even know the probability that you've seen them all 13:45:53 indeed, i got this sense some were more often than others 13:46:38 *frequent 13:46:38 of course mathematically i cannot be sure of that, either :P 13:47:25 Stop talking like that or you'll make me ten thousand samples to get some estimates. 13:47:38 s/me/me take/ 13:47:39 this is what null hypotheses were invented for! 13:47:58 actually, if you refresh it often enough, DMM will probably get fed up with the server load and outright tell you the probabilities 13:48:02 * ais523 lateral thinking 13:48:02 see fizzie become the first person ever banned from mezzacotta. well i guess there will have been spammers. 13:48:26 i _guess_ you could also ask in the forum. 13:48:35 I was thinking of having a ten second interval, that's not much of a load, and will take 10k samples in a day and a bit. 13:50:13 i don't recall ever seeing spam on the forum, come to think of it. but then i read it in twice-weekly bursts. 13:53:05 Distribution at 10 samples: http://sprunge.us/BGEZ 13:53:22 (The value is the sha1sum of the returned page.) 13:53:51 Clearly 421... is three times more likely than 0b5... 13:54:11 i'm pretty sure there are more than 10 versions :P 13:54:29 I've gotten 11 versions in 20 samples. 13:56:24 Ooh, a 12th version. 13:56:32 Did you count how many you found? 13:56:50 Uh, now it's back to 11. 13:57:14 Must have been sha1sum that read an incomplete copy. 14:00:05 http://sprunge.us/VIYV ... looks reasonably uniform so far... in fact, one might say it looks SUSPICIOUSLY uniform. Hmm. 14:02:35 too early to tell, really 14:02:36 -!- kallisti has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 14:03:39 no, i didn't count 14:16:59 hm, i realize i may have overestimated by confusing it with reloadings of the FAQ, as well 14:18:19 -!- augur has joined. 14:19:01 fizzie: actually i cannot seem to get the 11th one :P 14:19:42 -!- Madoka-Kaname has quit (Quit: Hug~♪). 14:20:36 oh there 14:24:07 If X is a uniformly distributed integer 0 .. 10, and Y the sequence formed by repeatedly sampling from X until Y contains each integer 0 .. 10 at least once, what's the expected length of Y? 14:24:30 aliens from Xabaduni IV; three golfers from Maine; Guernsey Comics Collective; Wow! signal; ancient Sumerian clay tablets; IP address Langerhans Islets; Edgar Planer; After representations received on behalf of; How awesome would it be if someone produced a webcomic without the comic?; John Lennon and Paul McCartney; As reviewed by TV Tropes: 14:25:00 the last two held out a _long_ time 14:26:19 hm i'm pretty sure that's a common chestnut/exercise 14:27:38 http://sprunge.us/gUOf <- I have these eleven. 14:28:12 Wait, that's just 10. 14:28:20 Do two start similarly or something? 14:30:10 no, i think you are missing one of Edgar Planer or three golfers from Maine 14:30:14 unfortunately my descriptions don't all start at the beginning 14:31:29 while the other one is your "In the mid-1990s, one of the" 14:32:07 which i _think_ is edgar planer, which is strange since i thought i got the golfers all the time 14:32:40 Oh, it's just the "get the first line" grep acting up. 14:33:53 It starts "COAP started ..." and that got removed by a "remove-the-

-and-

-lines" bit. 14:34:06 Because it matches ^<. 14:34:14 ah. 14:35:42 I wouldn't put it past DMM/whoever to have one extra-rare reply; let's hope my ten thousand attempts are enough for it to show up. 14:36:37 oh, and also 14:37:16 > let e 1 = 1; e n = 1 + n/(n-1) * e (n-1) in e 11 14:37:17 33.218650793650795 14:37:26 iirc 14:37:44 Okay, but why? 14:38:26 > let e 1 = 1; e n = 1 + n/(n-1) * e (n-1) in e 2 14:38:27 3.0 14:38:32 Well, it sounds so reasonable. 14:38:55 well your first try will always be a new item. and every try after that has (n-1)/n chance of not being the same as the first, which essentially rescales the expectation for n-1. i think. 14:40:49 Okay. (And what's the distribution for the length?) 14:41:09 heck if i know 14:45:09 That's all right; it doesn't count as a question anyway since I didn't formulate it in terms of balls and urns. 14:46:30 i'm looking at wikipedia's probability distributions template and none of them are obviously relevant. 14:46:52 -!- boily has joined. 14:52:12 -!- boily has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 15:04:20 Just look for something that has k!/(k^k) as the first nonzero value, I'm sure it's that. :p 15:04:41 argh 15:05:53 Humorously, I tried a Google search for "k!/(k^k)" (with quotes), and the first hit is "KKK: Ku Klux Klan, this one's for you!" 15:06:01 geometric distribution : binomial distribution :: ? : multinomial distribution 15:07:18 -!- boily has joined. 15:07:22 oh finally, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coupon_collector%27s_problem 15:07:39 i couldn't remember the name 15:08:45 but it was mentioned at the bottom of the geometric distribution article 15:11:49 fizzie: ^ 15:13:54 Very good. I won't subtract points for the fact that there's only E(T) and Var(T) there, not a simple equation for P(T=t), on grounds of there also being a link to a nice generating-function approach for getting those E(T) and Var(T). 15:14:20 hmm, mezzacotta's comic generator seems to have got better 15:14:36 in particular, the participants in each comic seem to react to each other now, if only at a rudimentary level 15:14:46 ais523: erm they always have 15:14:57 oerjan: nah, at the very start they didn't 15:15:03 it was just two independent conversations interleaved 15:17:07 if you say so. i recall them saying that they haven't made the generator possible to change without wiping out all the old comics 15:18:03 as in, comics that haven't been watched in a while drop out of cache and get regenerated 15:20:46 oerjan: hmm, but they've definitely added new characters 15:20:59 so either they just wipe out the old comics and nobody notices, or they use the old generator on previously visited comics 15:21:10 they wouldn't have to record the comics themselves, just the fact that they existed at one time 15:21:32 if they changed anything, it was _very_ early. 15:22:20 well, I was around pretty much at the start 15:22:26 it got mentioned on-channel 15:22:30 and then I stopped reading it for years 15:24:03 http://www.irregularwebcomic.net/draakslair/viewtopic.php?t=5891 15:24:41 "There's no versioning, so we can't change the algorithm, otherwise the hashes would produce different comics. Which is good and bad. Bad in that we can't improve the algorithms, good in that we can't improve the algorithms (and therefore don't spend inordinate amounts of our spare time doing so, which leaves us free to do other stuff, like Darths & Droids)." 15:25:58 the belief that they've added new characters _could_ just be the coupon collector's problem hitting :P 15:26:09 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 15:27:38 the only exception i recall is that they once changed it entirely for April 1. 15:28:02 -!- Vorpal has joined. 15:28:02 -!- Vorpal has quit (Changing host). 15:28:02 -!- Vorpal has joined. 15:28:17 he's alive! 15:29:02 or at least his client. 15:32:12 -!- Frooxius has joined. 15:39:09 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 16:02:22 -!- kallisti has joined. 16:02:22 -!- kallisti has quit (Changing host). 16:02:22 -!- kallisti has joined. 16:03:28 -!- kallisti has quit (Client Quit). 16:04:07 -!- kallisti has joined. 16:26:06 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:44:33 -!- boily has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 16:51:54 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:00:08 -!- kallisti has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 17:02:45 -!- ais523 has joined. 17:04:20 -!- Systemzw1ng has changed nick to Systemzwang. 17:32:22 ...how can a display driver download be 148 MB? That is quite insane. 17:33:21 Because software programmers have stopped caring, maybe 17:33:29 possibly 17:33:30 "Everyone has awesome computers now, no need to bother!" 17:34:02 well, the computer I'm installing it on is indeed awesome 17:35:16 btw that is the windows display drivers, clicking custom installation reveals that the control panel component of it takes 150 MB of disk space. 17:35:50 I guess the same reason that firefox is now OVER A GIGABYTE 17:35:58 is it? 17:35:59 wtf 17:36:12 Wait 17:36:16 It's not! 17:36:17 hm ubuntu claims 40 MB 17:36:23 Why was it on my old PC 17:36:23 for installed size 17:36:28 (I just reinstalled windows) 17:36:33 Because EVERYTHING WAS SLOW 17:36:36 Maybe that is why! 17:36:40 Slereah_, that is a windows problem :P 17:36:50 Firefox was at an installed size of 1.20 GB or so 17:36:59 Now it's 38 MB! 17:37:11 I don't even know 17:37:25 I guess I could go with some lame "I probably got some malwares" excuse 17:37:33 But 1 GB sounds like a lot even for that 17:37:48 I blame it being windows 17:37:59 For 1GB I would hope at least to be monitored by the FBI 17:38:08 Well I'm on windows now, and it's not! 17:38:24 Slereah_, the other day windows decided that the experience index thingy was up to date but it refused to show the value 17:38:29 until after a reboot 17:38:58 that was 64-bit win7 pro btw 17:39:03 Hey folks I made an awesome new whatever it is that I make go download it it's 15GB 17:39:32 Gregor, hm, almost as large as my last panorama ;) 17:40:28 (actually, I can't upload the panoramas I make as I would like them, I have to apply jpeg compression to get them down to reasonable sizes of 20-30 MB...) 17:41:23 So I bought a pair of wireless headphones because I keep on breaking headphones by stepping on the wires 'til I break something. 17:41:35 (there was one recently that when saved as a tiff with deflate compression (which is what hugin outputs) was about 370 MB) 17:41:38 I was trying to figure out how to network the audio so I could just leave the base station attached to my desktop (since moving it defeats the purpose) 17:41:52 I eventually discovered it's easier to network video, even while playing a movie, than audio. 17:41:53 wtf. 17:42:00 Gregor, err? 17:42:14 how do you mean it is easier to do network audio than audio? 17:42:28 I eventually discovered it's easier to network VIDEO, even while playing a movie, than audio. 17:42:36 oh wait 17:42:38 misread 17:42:58 btw, I'm curious, how is the sound quality with wireless headphones? 17:43:06 (are they bluetooth based or?) 17:43:38 Gregor, ^ 17:44:49 They're RF and probably quite interceptable, but the sound quality has been fine. I noticed I had to turn up the audio all the way on the desktop and turn it down to a reasonable level on the headphones or I start to get static, but it's not noticeable once the levels are adjusted properly. 17:45:03 hm 17:45:04 Sometimes when there's no other sound I can hear a bit of interference. 17:45:19 that would annoy the hell out of me 17:45:37 what about battery time? 17:46:36 I've only had them for a day, and they recharge in the base station so I don't really have any basis for judgement. 17:46:46 They just have two rechargeable AAA batteries. 17:47:31 ah 17:48:48 Gregor, hm you know the power connectors on modern apple laptops? they should use that for headphone cables... 17:49:52 I feel that both ends are the problem for me. I step on the damned cable while I'm wearing them ... and my cat attacks the cable too ... 17:50:01 oh cats 17:50:02 right 17:55:31 -!- mroman has joined. 17:58:32 -!- kallisti has joined. 18:05:46 Vorpal: Nvidia's "unified driver" is big partially because it supports so many different cards. But of course also partially because bloatiness. 18:06:16 Also cats and headphone cables are indeed not a good equation. 18:06:54 Vorpal: Incidentally, someone ported robotfindskitten to that Lego Mindstorm NXT thing. http://robotfindskitten.org/aw.cgi?main=news.rfk 18:07:04 Based on the name, someone Finnish. Or at least of Finnish ancestry. 18:16:57 -!- kallisti has quit (Quit: leaving). 18:17:02 -!- kallisti has joined. 18:17:03 -!- kallisti has quit (Changing host). 18:17:03 -!- kallisti has joined. 18:17:11 -!- kallisti has quit (Client Quit). 18:17:27 -!- kallisti has joined. 18:17:27 -!- kallisti has quit (Changing host). 18:17:27 -!- kallisti has joined. 18:19:22 Hey 18:19:32 You know what the worst error message is? 18:19:41 "Can't move this file because the filename is too long" 18:19:53 When you're moving a folder with a few thousand files in it 18:19:57 It can get annoying 18:30:27 -!- augur has joined. 18:41:26 -!- MDude has joined. 18:41:54 @tell oerjan At the moment, when 1640 samples have been taken, given the null hypothesis that the 11 variants are uniformly distributed, according to Pearson's chi-squared test, the p-value is 0.42, i.e. the deviation is not statistically significant. (But that's frequentist talk!) 18:41:54 Consider it noted. 19:25:17 -!- kallisti has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:38:45 -!- Ngevd has joined. 19:38:57 Hello! 19:39:54 Hi. 19:40:38 My internet connection is rather slow 19:42:38 Fortunately, there's nothing useful in the Internet either. 19:43:02 Although apparently stable? 19:43:16 @ping 19:43:17 pong 19:46:04 It's been over a minute, I suspect I may have lost connection 19:50:29 -!- Ngevd has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:18:01 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 20:18:03 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 20:18:03 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 20:19:17 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 20:40:04 -!- oerjan has joined. 20:40:25 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 20:41:14 -!- oerjan has set topic: ,[.,]!elliott sacked as bearer of Element of Loyalty, seeking pegasus replacement | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ | Now slightly on-topic | Now failing to construct an esolang in THE. WORST. POSSIBLE. WAY.. 20:42:30 @messages 20:42:31 fizzie said 2h 36s ago: At the moment, when 1640 samples have been taken, given the null hypothesis that the 11 variants are uniformly distributed, according to Pearson's chi-squared test, the p- 20:42:31 value is 0.42, i.e. the deviation is not statistically significant. (But that's frequentist talk!) 20:45:02 -!- monqy has joined. 20:46:28 (actually, I can't upload the panoramas I make as I would like them, I have to apply jpeg compression to get them down to reasonable sizes of 20-30 MB...) 20:47:07 wasn't someone around here experimenting with lossless settings for some common image or video compression? i think maybe pikhq 20:47:42 it was years ago, though 20:48:05 and i think the conclusion was it wasn't half bad 20:50:43 * quintopia halps oerjan 20:51:03 how very nice 20:51:20 conclusion: people get nicer when you murder them in their sleep. 20:52:08 yeah that zombie thing was way off 20:52:13 -!- Ngevd has joined. 20:52:31 Just written a quick Dupdog interpreter in Haskell 20:53:06 The main function: 20:53:17 main = runProg True $ fmap (Prog "") $ join $ fmap (lookup . map (uncurry (flip (,)))) getEnvironment 20:53:26 yikes 20:53:43 Wait a second 20:54:13 Ngevd: join . fmap f is known as f =<< 20:54:15 main = runProg True $ fmap (Prog "") $ join $ fmap (maybe getContents readFile . lookup . map (uncurry (flip (,)))) getEnvironment 20:54:25 oerjan, that's probably handy 20:56:23 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 20:57:20 @pl join $ fmap (maybe getContents readFile . lookup . map (uncurry (flip (,)))) getEnvironment 20:57:21 maybe getContents readFile . lookup . map (uncurry (flip (,))) =<< getEnvironment 20:57:44 :t lookup 20:57:45 forall a b. (Eq a) => a -> [(a, b)] -> Maybe b 20:58:19 @hoogle getEnvironment 20:58:20 System.Environment getEnvironment :: IO [(String, String)] 20:58:20 System.Posix.Env getEnvironment :: IO [(String, String)] 20:58:20 System.Posix.Env getEnvironmentPrim :: IO [String] 20:59:39 main = runProg True $ fmap (Prog "") $ maybe getContents readFile . lookup "" . map (uncurry (flip (,))) =<< getEnvironment 20:59:43 I made a few typos as well 20:59:51 ah. 21:00:07 erm, why would you lookup "" in that 21:00:28 Because that finds a key without a value 21:01:18 why in the world would you use that to get a filename? 21:01:23 Because getEnvironment should return something like IO [("wrap","157"),("filename")] 21:01:28 Because I'm magical 21:01:37 And don't have a clue what I'm doing 21:02:08 what is wrong with using getArgs 21:02:14 @hoogle getArgs 21:02:14 System.Environment getArgs :: IO [String] 21:02:15 Graphics.UI.GLUT.Initialization getArgsAndInitialize :: IO (String, [String]) 21:02:51 lessee 21:03:22 :t head . (++ [getContents]) . map readFile 21:03:23 [FilePath] -> IO String 21:03:30 :t head . (++ [getContents]) . map readFile =<< getArgs 21:03:31 Not in scope: `getArgs' 21:03:34 argh 21:03:41 :t head . (++ [getContents]) . map readFile =<< System.Environment.getArgs 21:03:42 IO String 21:04:11 uhh 21:04:29 monqy: PROBLEM? 21:04:35 yes 21:04:45 naturally i'd use a case in practice myself 21:06:33 oh hm you have other flags too 21:07:33 It doesn't handle ending very well 21:07:57 [("wrap","157"),("filename")] sounds like quite a "special" sort of list. 21:08:33 -!- Ngevd has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:09:05 come back you scoundrel 21:09:09 -!- Ngevd has joined. 21:09:12 Ngevd: are you trying to parse the command line? because that is _not_ what getEnvironment does. 21:09:35 No, I'm trying to parse the arguments? 21:09:39 I suppose there's something getopt-like in there too? 21:09:41 @hoogle getopt 21:09:41 System.Console.GetOpt getOpt :: ArgOrder a -> [OptDescr a] -> [String] -> ([a], [String], [String]) 21:09:41 System.Console.GetOpt getOpt' :: ArgOrder a -> [OptDescr a] -> [String] -> ([a], [String], [String], [String]) 21:09:41 System.Console.GetOpt module System.Console.GetOpt 21:10:05 If a file name is provided in the arguments, it loads the file, otherwise it uses the command line 21:10:07 Ngevd: the command line arguments? my point still remains. 21:10:25 Hmm 21:10:54 and yes, getOpt can be used for this. 21:10:56 Oh dear god you're right 21:11:01 oerjan: Maybe if he wants the program to be called as "wrap=123 thingie" instead of "thingie --wrap 123". 21:11:15 fizzie: that would be _possible_ of course :P 21:11:30 but i had a hunch that's not what he wanted. 21:11:58 fizzie, that is exactly what I wanted 21:12:03 My brain is weird 21:12:27 oh O_O 21:12:34 Here 'thingie' was your program, incidentally. 21:12:59 _not_ the dupdog program, but the interpreter 21:13:12 Right. 21:13:13 Oh 21:13:20 That's not what I want 21:13:22 I'm not exactly sure how you wanted the filename thing to go in, since I doubt you can set "the environment variable with no name". 21:13:40 fizzie, I did with my latin vocab program? 21:13:48 Using getArgs 21:13:50 fizzie: um he's looking up for no _value_, not name. 21:14:14 oerjan: Oh, there's a flip in there somewhere? Okay then; though I suppose there might be several. 21:14:33 getArgs sounds like it has absolutely zero things in common with the environment variables. 21:14:38 * oerjan is still confused what Ngevd actually wants. 21:14:39 Ngevd: how would you write a complete command line for calling your interpreter with wrap and filename settings? 21:14:51 *would you like to write 21:14:59 dupdog hello.dupdog wrap=157 21:15:05 why do you want that?? 21:15:13 BECAUSE I AM MAD 21:15:19 And it made sense at the time 21:15:20 ok 21:15:25 And I don't know what the convention is 21:15:36 ...What's the convention? 21:15:39 Ngevd: hm ok. dupdog hello.dupdog --wrap 157 would be easier to convinve getOpt to do, i think. 21:15:46 *c 21:16:00 Okay 21:16:05 the 'cmdargs' package is a much nicer way to parse command line arguments in haskell 21:16:07 compared to getopt 21:16:22 always a package :P 21:17:03 it's well documented too 21:17:23 Plain getArgs would give you ["hello.dupdog", "wrap=157"], which isn't too hard to parsemate, while I suppose getEnvironment would give you something like [("PATH", "/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/games"), ("HOSTNAME", "something"), ("HOME", "/home/something"), ...]. 21:17:47 I misunderstood the function and never actually tested it 21:18:10 ["hello.dupdog", "--wrap", "157"] is even easier to parse 21:18:16 also «IO [("wrap","157"),("filename")]» is not a thing ;P 21:19:37 Anyhoo, dashes is indeed the most common convention. Though there certainly are commands that take "foo=bar" options. 'dd' comes to mind. 21:20:03 Everyone hates dd for being different, though. 21:20:41 (that needs only pattern matching, no breaking up of substrings. well i guess you _could_ do 'w':'r':'a':'p':'=':wrapping) 21:20:48 kmc, I was trying for IO [("wrap","157"),("filenam","")] 21:24:19 that is also not a thing 21:24:42 IO is a type constructor, not a data constructor 21:24:54 (except at the GHC implementation level, but that data constructor does something completely different and unreasonable) 21:25:18 a value of type (IO T) is not a value of type T "tainted" by the fact that it's "in IO" 21:25:49 it's a description of an imperative program which, if executed, *would* produce a value of type T 21:25:56 there is no T inside 21:31:13 getOpt Permute [Option "" ["wrap"] (ReqArg id "wrapping size") "wrapping size" `fmap` getArgs 21:31:21 er 21:31:29 getOpt Permute [Option "" ["wrap"] (ReqArg id "wrapping size") "wrapping size"] `fmap` getArgs 21:42:55 -!- kallisti has joined. 21:43:07 -!- kallisti has quit (Changing host). 21:43:07 -!- kallisti has joined. 21:46:58 -!- kallisti_ has joined. 21:48:30 -!- kallisti_ has quit (Client Quit). 21:49:03 -!- kallisti has quit (Quit: leaving). 21:49:20 -!- kallisti has joined. 21:49:20 -!- kallisti has quit (Changing host). 21:49:20 -!- kallisti has joined. 21:49:45 sometimes... 21:49:48 irssi is really frustrating. 21:51:18 hi 21:56:51 -!- azaq23 has joined. 21:57:06 -!- azaq23 has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 22:08:20 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88 [Firefox 10.0/20120129021758]). 22:12:11 -!- derdon has joined. 22:21:27 -!- Ngevd has quit (Quit: goodnight). 22:26:45 -!- Taneb has joined. 22:26:47 Just flying around to say look at this crap: http://hpaste.org/57301 22:26:51 -!- Taneb has quit (Client Quit). 22:31:15 -!- Vorpal has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 22:44:40 @tell Taneb er... Dupdog is not supposed to have a program pointer, you always take the first character. Also your eval' is an infinite recursion (hint: unless you are writing generic combinators, a function argument with IO type is usually a mistake.) 22:44:40 Consider it noted. 22:49:47 @tell Taneb also, fail "Error: check the wrapping size you gave is a valid number." is misleading - nothing will check if the number is valid by that point. 22:49:47 Consider it noted. 22:58:01 @tell Taneb I can see how "The next character is read" might give you that impression though - but note that (I clearly recall) the initial inspiration for dupdog was the idea of two irc bots reacting to each other's lines as entirely new commands, for which such a remembering of position doesn't make sense. 22:58:02 Consider it noted. 23:32:14 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 23:40:10 @tell oerjan Hmm, that's funny... if I calculate the chi^2-score right, after 3370 samples I could say the distribution is in fact *not* uniform, at p=0.03, i.e. that the probability for getting at least as non-uniform results if they were actually from a uniform distribution is just 0.03. 23:40:10 Consider it noted. 23:40:31 @tell oerjan I might be calculating it wrong, though. 23:40:31 Consider it noted. 23:41:29 @tell fizzie OKAY 23:41:30 Consider it noted. 23:41:48 Oh, uh, right, maybe the @tell bit was a bit... 23:41:48 fizzie: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 23:41:56 Hey, I have messages! 23:42:06 @message 23:42:06 Maybe you meant: messages messages? 23:42:08 @messages 23:42:08 oerjan said 38s ago: OKAY 23:42:21 Oh, it's just *you*. :( :( :( 23:42:41 how terrible 23:43:00 I'm thinking "@message" should also work, but only in the case where you actually do have a single message. 23:43:13 fancy 23:43:32 fizzie: is 3370 how much you have in total? 23:43:58 Yes. Well, it's 3406 now. 23:44:41 what's the ratio of largest to smallest item? 23:45:16 1.3. 23:45:24 that's not overly large :P 23:45:35 376/289, to be more exact. 23:45:54 too small to be an intended difference, me thinks