←2012-02-07 2012-02-08 2012-02-09→ ↑2012 ↑all
00:00:05 <elliott> Doesn't everything model call-by-push-value if you squint hard enough? Isn't that kind of the point?
00:00:16 <elliott> Anyway, I don't like monadic effects either.
00:00:23 <elliott> They're disgusting. Also incorrect.
00:00:41 <ais523> elliott: well, call-by-push-value is meant to be (and actually is) a superset of both call-by-value and call-by-name
00:00:50 <ais523> and it's designed for handling effects properly
00:01:03 <ais523> (nontermination is considered an effect)
00:01:20 <ais523> and you can implement it with monads, but also in several quite different ways that don't involve monads at all
00:01:59 <oerjan> a Y combinator makes no sense in a strict language, does it...
00:03:15 <ais523> oerjan: well, "the Y combinator" diverges as it's a specific fixed-point combinator
00:03:20 <ais523> but "a fixed-point combinator" makes sense
00:03:46 <elliott> ais523: I find call-by-push-value's handling of effects distasteful.
00:03:53 <ais523> elliott: do you know what it is?
00:04:30 <elliott> If I remember correctly, yes.
00:05:32 <elliott> ais523: Also, I don't buy its "unification".
00:05:46 <ais523> well, mathematically it's correct
00:05:48 <elliott> It forces you to be explicit about evaluation, which is exposing an implementation detail in my religion.
00:05:58 <elliott> It's not really a unification, it's just lower-level.
00:06:02 <ais523> hmm, perhaps
00:06:08 <elliott> You can encode call-by-name and call-by-value in x86 machine code, too.
00:06:15 <zzo38> Do you think it has something to do with religious stuff?
00:06:17 <elliott> That doesn't make it a more elegant unification of the two.
00:06:20 <ais523> it allows you to be explicit about when effects happen, which is clearly not an implementation detail because it affects the program's behaviour
00:07:11 <elliott> That just means it conflates effects and evaluation.
00:07:57 <ais523> it has two sets of types, one which conflates them and one of which doesn't
00:07:59 <ais523> or, not exactly
00:08:04 <ais523> but that's an approximate way to describe it
00:08:25 <elliott> Yes. I find that ugly.
00:08:34 <ais523> I consider that a reasonable point of view
00:09:32 <elliott> I prefer languages with nontermination-as-effect; in large part *because* they make evaluation order irrelevant.
00:09:47 <elliott> (As long as they have proper codata, of course.)
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00:11:54 <zzo38> My Haskell preprocessor program "Hampp" does not support layout mode and that might be why many people hate it.
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00:14:55 <zzo38> In addition to the other reasons.
00:17:29 <zzo38> What is the general kind of fallacy of the "astrological signs fallacy" called?
00:17:31 <elliott> Any more EXCITING questions?? No?
00:17:41 <zzo38> elliott: I don't know.
00:18:01 <oerjan> zzo38: forcing people to change their usual haskell style to use it does sound like a major dealbreaker
00:19:17 <elliott> oerjan: I bet YOU have a question.
00:20:02 <oerjan> yes, why is wordpress's comment system so sucky
00:20:03 <zzo38> oerjan: But I do write it mostly for myself and the program is in the public domain anyone can make modifications if wanted. Still, once I finished, I intend to make it available so that anyone can use if they want to do so. Maybe the a few people using nonlayout style might like it, but they might also hate it due to different reasons instead.
00:20:32 <elliott> oerjan: Because I don't run it.
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00:20:50 <oerjan> zzo38: what fallacy is that?
00:22:22 <zzo38> oerjan: It is as follows: If they say the sun sign is Aquarius, and you manage to see the stars (due to eclipse or whatever), you will see that it is a different constellation; therefore, astrology is based on the imaginary sun which is not the real position of the sun.
00:22:52 <zzo38> Which is wrong, as anyone who understands it will understand.
00:24:12 <oerjan> heh
00:24:14 <zzo38> Do you know much about fallacy?
00:24:50 <oerjan> well, it's based on imaginary constellations, naturally (or on a purely mathetical division of the ecliptic)
00:26:17 <zzo38> It is not based on constellation at all; but "a purely mathetical division of the ecliptic" is reasonable (you can say it is simply a unit of angular measurement of ecliptic longitude). They are named after constellations, however. Is it any general fallacy based on named after? I don't know everything about fallacy in general?
00:27:10 <oerjan> well i don't know. i haven't heard about that particular one before, i think.
00:28:02 <zzo38> It would seem to be it would be an instance of a more general type of fallacy, but I don't know.
00:28:24 <fizzie> <oerjan> nice try, admins-making-their-censorship-invisible <-- I think perhaps oer "powertrip" jan is maybe not the best person to criticize the Administration.
00:29:13 <zzo38> fizzie: Then revert the Main Page if you do not like it.
00:33:27 <oerjan> zzo38: perhaps Equivocation?
00:35:03 <zzo38> "Equivocation consists in employing the same word in two or more senses..." Yes, perhaps Equivocation.
00:36:02 <oerjan> Etymological fallacy too
00:36:28 <zzo38> OK
00:38:10 <oerjan> oh and maybe False dilemma
00:39:56 <zzo38> Are you sure it is like False dilemma?
00:40:52 <oerjan> well in a meta-sense of ignoring other possible explanations
00:41:37 <zzo38> O, like that.
00:41:42 <zzo38> OK
00:43:23 <oerjan> gah i'm getting a headache from reading through these http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies
00:43:36 <oerjan> or will, if i don't stop now
00:59:42 <zzo38> I think I have managed to make up a monad from any contravariant functor; but can it make up a monad transformer from any contravariant functor? Or even a comonad or comonad transformer from any contravariant functor?
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01:05:16 <zzo38> Has the present king of France stopped robbing banks?
01:07:42 <pikhq> Why stop?
01:11:13 <zzo38> Is Fermat's Last Theorem provable in Typographical Number Theory?
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01:42:22 <zzo38> Can you make up a Haskell program which compiles and runs but does different things, depending which semicolons are removed? Can you do the similar thing with commas too?
01:43:41 <oerjan> > length [id, id, id, id]
01:43:42 <lambdabot> 4
01:43:47 <oerjan> > length [id id id id]
01:43:48 <lambdabot> 1
01:43:57 <zzo38> Yes that is a simple example.
01:44:41 <zzo38> But there can be more complicated ways too. With semicolons, or commas, or possibly under punctuations; or a program depending on which extensions are enabled (which I have done once).
01:44:54 <oerjan> i remember that one
01:47:34 <zzo38> Do you know how to make up a monad transformer from any contravariant functor?
01:48:28 <oerjan> i don't recall how you made just a monad
01:52:21 <zzo38> I cannot find the file right now; but I might have it on paper somewhere.
01:53:18 <zzo38> I also don't quite know if it is really a monad but I have seen similarity with thing other people said is monad.
01:53:42 <zzo38> I do remember the datatype: newtype T f x = T (f x -> x); where f is some contravariant functor
01:54:41 <zzo38> Does this help at all?
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01:58:40 <zzo38> Are you able to answer any of my questions based on this type definition?
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02:02:00 <oerjan> hm is that a monad
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02:03:27 <oerjan> if we try with f x = F (x -> A)
02:03:43 <oerjan> so we get (x -> A) -> x
02:04:56 <oerjan> return = const looks necessary
02:05:28 <zzo38> And I believe that (x -> A) -> x has been shown to be a monad I saw the message somewhere (regardless of what A is, although they used Bool)
02:05:48 <zzo38> Yes return = const looks necessary I remember that is how I had it too
02:06:27 <oerjan> so if you have (x -> A) -> x and x -> (y -> A) -> y
02:07:10 <oerjan> and you want (y -> A) -> y from that
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02:13:28 <elliott> OK, one of you people has to have configured PHP and MySQL on Debian.
02:13:32 <elliott> Like Gregor. Gregor must have.
02:13:47 <oerjan> :t let (xm >>= f) y2a = f (xm x2a) y2a where x2y x = f x y2a; x2a = y2a . x2y in (>>=)
02:13:48 <lambdabot> forall t b a. ((t -> b) -> t) -> (t -> (a -> b) -> a) -> (a -> b) -> a
02:14:33 <oerjan> that has the right type
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02:15:03 <elliott> Look, I don't want to ask ##php. This place is marginally better than ##php.
02:15:11 <elliott> Although I bet they'd tell me to go to #debian and vice versa.
02:15:15 <oerjan> marginally?
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02:15:18 * oerjan cry
02:15:30 <Sgeo> kallisti, there was an update a while ago
02:15:36 <elliott> oerjan: Only marginally.
02:15:59 <oerjan> now i want to both kick and not kick elliott at the same time
02:16:30 <elliott> Exactly.
02:16:34 <Gregor> <elliott> Like Gregor. Gregor must have. // never MySQL, no.
02:16:41 <zzo38> elliott: Ask on MySQL instead.
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02:17:04 <elliott> Gregor: That's good, because my question is why installing php5-mysql and rebooting the server still makes MW think I don't have a MySQL database driver installed, despite installing other PHP extensions working (i.e. reflected in the MW installer).
02:17:08 <elliott> So I'm sure you know the answer to that!
02:17:18 <elliott> It even says "If you installed PHP from a Debian or Ubuntu package, then you also need install the php5-mysql module.".
02:17:26 <zzo38> oerjan: That is only for that specific one I intended in general contravariant functors
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02:17:46 <oerjan> zzo38: well i tried to wrap my head around it first
02:17:53 <Gregor> elliott: My guess would be that that installs the /module/, but doesn't configure it to use it.
02:18:04 <oerjan> i don't think my brain is up to it at the moment
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02:18:39 <zzo38> I think I have figured it out once but I forget now.
02:18:42 <elliott> Gregor: Yes, I thought that too, but it's in conf.d.
02:18:49 <elliott> Gregor: And php.ini contains a bunch of settings for it.
02:18:50 <zzo38> I am also unsure, and it isn't a transfomer
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02:19:29 <elliott> Gregor: Also, everything on the internet suggests installing it should be enough.
02:19:34 <Gregor> Hm.
02:20:01 <Gregor> I assume /usr/share/doc/php5-mysql/README.Debian is unhelpful?
02:20:57 <elliott> Gregor: It's just generic PHP documentation with no MySQL info.
02:21:15 <Gregor> Wow, that's even less helpful than I anticipated ...
02:21:43 <elliott> Gregor: Not even a symlink to the php5 README.Debian, either.
02:21:45 <Gregor> Yeah, unless the issue is just that you need to add extension=mysql.so to your php.ini, Idonno.
02:21:48 <elliott> I guess they created it from some template.
02:21:56 <elliott> That extension= line is already in the relevant conf.d, yeah :|
02:24:31 <elliott> Gregor: Oh
02:24:36 <elliott> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 11 Jan 12 15:32 /usr/share/doc/php5-mysql -> php5-common
02:24:39 <elliott> Real fuckin' helpful, that
02:24:43 <Gregor> Super.
02:24:52 <Gregor> Well, make a test.php with <?PHP phpinfo(); ?>
02:24:57 <Gregor> So at least you can see if it's PHP or MW being stupid.
02:25:04 <elliott> "For information on using <specific thing>, why not read the documentation for THE ENTIRE UNIVERSE?"
02:26:03 <elliott> Gregor: That's a pain, since my nginx doesn't run arbitrary PHP stuff :(
02:26:07 * elliott hijacks... index.php.
02:26:18 <elliott> How do you stop PHP parsing so it ignores all the junk after a line?
02:26:40 <elliott> Oh, there we go.
02:27:15 <elliott> Gregor: Yes, it shows MySQL.
02:27:22 <Gregor> Well then it must be MW being stupid 8-D
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02:27:47 * elliott reunpacks MW.
02:28:18 <elliott> Which is pointless, since it doesn't have write permissions to anywhere anyway.
02:29:53 <oerjan> (f (f x -> x) -> f x -> x) -> f x -> x
02:30:33 <elliott> "Do you want to clear all saved data that you have entered and restart the installation process?"
02:30:36 <elliott> Gregor: Maybe this is the problem :P
02:30:44 <elliott> .........
02:30:49 <elliott> Guess what was the problem >_<
02:31:14 <elliott> So it caches whether you have the MySQL extension installed, but not the internationalisation module. Awesome.
02:31:51 <Gregor> Sweet.
02:33:09 <elliott> "If your MySQL installation supports InnoDB, it is highly recommended that you choose that instead. If your MySQL installation does not support InnoDB, maybe it's time for an upgrade."
02:33:16 <elliott> This installer is talking shit about me, man.
02:34:00 <Gregor> "If your MediaWiki installation is written in PHP, it is highly recommended that you choose something else instead. If your MediaWiki installation does not support anything but PHP, maybe it's time for an upgrade."
02:34:11 <Gregor> My epic burns, they slice so brutally!
02:42:29 <elliott> Awesome, going to the main wiki index now produces the super-helpful error message "File not found."
02:42:44 <elliott> I blame Gregor.
02:44:29 <oerjan> the famous tree-valued logic
02:44:29 <oerjan> er
02:44:29 <oerjan> *three
02:44:33 <oerjan> perhaps tree-valued would be more interesting.
02:46:21 <zzo38> But isn't MediaWiki always written in PHP?
02:47:00 <Gregor> elliott: Fix something and it'll be "Enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity"
02:48:01 <zzo38> oerjan: Yes that would be the type for join, for a contravariant functor f. I think I made something once with that type. But is it correct? Can a transformer somehow be made from it? And so on?
02:52:10 <oerjan> f x -> m x or f (m x) -> m x would be the candidates, i guess
02:52:45 <elliott> Gregor: So have you ever done nginx and PHP and FastCGI? :P
02:53:12 <pikhq> zzo38: That would be the joke.
02:56:00 <zzo38> oerjan: Yes I thought of both of those things, but am unsure if that is the only choice or if any of those work
02:56:14 <zzo38> (I have not gotten them to work)
02:56:30 <zzo38> (But that might be simply because I did not try hard enough)
02:57:19 <oerjan> f (m x) -> x might be possible too, but not possible to use from an arbitrary m i think
02:58:50 <oerjan> well maybe if x = m y
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03:09:58 <oerjan> no, freefall, breaking your leg is _not_ an acceptable way of prolonging a cliffhanger.
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03:10:58 <oerjan> (note: you don't want to visit the frontpage if you don't like spoilers)
03:12:41 <Gregor> Tree-valued logic.
03:12:51 <Gregor> That'd better be a page on esolangs.org when I come back tomorrow.
03:12:59 <oerjan> not by me
03:29:17 <pikhq> oerjan: Blah
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03:32:35 <elliott> Gregor: FIXED IT
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03:38:05 <zzo38> Then you make the esolang for Tree-valued logic.
03:39:48 <zzo38> Which Cabal category does my program Hampp (Haskell macro preprocessor) should belong to?
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03:52:01 <elliott> The tables containing user-related data are no longer being dumped, so this should be a solved problem. --Graue 20:17, 1 Jul 2005 (GMT)
03:52:08 <elliott> I blame Gregor.
03:52:16 <elliott> (This is now my outlet for all woes related to this endeavour.)
03:55:31 <elliott> Yeah OK I'll get back to work.
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04:03:54 <zzo38> Do you know the answer?
04:14:12 <zzo38> I just selected 18) Other (specify) and entered "Preprocessor" as the package category
04:14:43 <zzo38> Even though there are no other packages having that category
04:17:06 <Sgeo> kallisti, update?
04:19:41 * Sgeo uploads a new version of kallisti.
04:26:27 <oerjan> zzo38: coincidentally, this comment in a mathoverflow discussion linked today from the haskell subreddit speaks about whether FLT can be proved in weak arithmetic (it's still not concluded) http://mathoverflow.net/questions/35746/inaccessible-cardinals-and-andrew-wiless-proof/73197#73197
04:27:43 <oerjan> tldr: someone is trying to prove that it can be done
04:29:04 <zzo38> Fermat may have had a proof in mind, but this is also unknown. All that is known is that it does not fit in the margin.
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04:44:24 <Sgeo> Besides VMware's proprietary ESXi, are there operating systems primarily designed for virtualizing other OSes?
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04:57:52 <zzo38> How do dependent sum types model existential quantification?
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05:28:32 <elliott_> Gregor! You're so lucky!
05:28:43 <elliott_> I'm here to bother you about something you know nothing about.
05:29:00 <oerjan> how zen
05:29:13 <elliott_> oerjan: Don't push your luck or it'll be you next.
05:29:26 <oerjan> yeah i'm good at knowing nothing
05:30:44 * quintopia signs elliott up for Cat Facts
05:31:54 <oerjan> fat cacts
05:32:01 <elliott_> Gregor isn't even here. Useless.
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05:36:16 <zzo38> Should I add additional package categories for my package, orhter than just "Preprocessor"?
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05:55:44 <zzo38> Is this the proper package file? http://sprunge.us/haMR
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07:40:21 * Sgeo vaguely wonders if Conservapedia has an article on Alan Turing
07:40:22 <lambdabot> Sgeo: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
07:41:57 <Sgeo> It talks about what you'd expect it to talk about, but doesn't put it in any particular light
07:42:16 <Sgeo> Although "Turing also became an atheist after his friend Christopher Morcom died [1]." is somewhat random
07:42:37 <fizzie> What, no "God decided he had to die for being gay"ness?
07:44:15 <Sgeo> Not really, no
07:44:15 <Sgeo> http://www.conservapedia.com/Alan_Turing
07:44:27 <Sgeo> Categories: Mathematicians | Atheists
07:45:04 <pikhq> Sgeo: Conservapedians are convinced atheism is the ultimate sin.
07:45:41 <Sgeo> pikhq, the article doesn't do anything that seems to try to portray him in a negative light.
07:45:49 <Sgeo> At least, as far as I can tell.
07:45:59 <Sgeo> So throwing that in there doesn't seem helpful to that .. ideology
07:46:06 <Sgeo> http://www.conservapedia.com/Talk:Alan_Turing
07:46:22 <Sgeo> " All politics aside, any biographical entry on Alan Turing which doesn't mention his sexual orientation at all is woefully incomplete. Deliberately avoiding the subject for fear of endorsing it serves no purpose except to give readers the impression that Conservapedia is a wiki which puts ideology ahead of being an informative reference tool."
07:46:25 <pikhq> Strangely neutral of them, I guess? I mean, these are the guys with an anti-relativity rant.
07:46:55 <pikhq> (not moral relativity, *Einsteinian* relativity)
07:47:56 <Sgeo> Clearly, Einsteinian relativity leads to moral relativity! (Isn't that actually part of their ... thinking about it?)
07:49:45 <pikhq> Yes.
07:49:51 <pikhq> That's not a strawman.
07:49:59 <pikhq> How I wish it were.
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08:10:33 * Jafet vaguely wonders why there would be a discussion on the intellectual neutrality of editors on Conservapedia
08:35:19 <kallisti> ....where what?
08:35:28 <kallisti> oh
08:37:06 <kallisti> well the reason that it hasn't been butchered is that
08:37:17 <kallisti> only the computer scientists actually know who Alan Turing is.
08:37:23 <kallisti> so no one else has touched it. :>
08:38:26 <kallisti> oh, and I guess mathematicians.
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15:12:05 <Gregor> <Sgeo> " All politics aside, any biographical entry on Alan Turing which doesn't mention his sexual orientation at all is woefully incomplete. Deliberately avoiding the subject for fear of endorsing it serves no purpose except to give readers the impression that Conservapedia is a wiki which puts ideology ahead of being an informative reference tool."
15:12:25 <Gregor> I'm pretty sure that even Conservapedia's /supporters/ recognize it as a wiki which puts ideology ahead of being an informative reference tool ...
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16:15:51 <kallisti> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lambda "In the C# programming language a lambda expression is an anonymous function that can contain expressions and statements."
16:20:08 <Gregor> Whoah whoah whoah.
16:20:11 <Gregor> Expressions AND statements???
16:20:25 <Gregor> And the person who designed it doesn't have a Turing award?
16:21:37 <kallisti> Gregor: inorite
16:21:42 <kallisti> it's the only one mentioned on the page
16:21:45 <kallisti> so it's gotta be special
16:22:05 <kallisti> I mean, it mentions Lisp and Python have lambda keywords (ha ha keywords in Lisp)
16:22:16 <kallisti> From the lambda calculus article: "The lambda calculus (or calculi, as variants exist, such as typed and untyped) is an advanced topic within both the fields of theoretical mathematics and of applied computer science; and, as such, lambda calculus involves technically sophisticated concepts such as bindings and substitutions."
16:22:22 <kallisti> very sophsticated.
16:23:55 <oklopol> :D
16:25:12 <kallisti> applied computer science eh?
16:25:47 * kallisti searches for "need lambda calculus experts" on all of the freelancing job sites.
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16:47:37 <Taneb> Hello!
16:49:27 <Taneb> I like today's Gunnerkrigg Court
16:51:23 <Phantom_Hoover> You know that you're the only one who read Gunnerkrigg Court, right?
16:51:23 <lambdabot> Phantom_Hoover: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
16:51:29 <Taneb> No
16:51:32 <Taneb> I deny that
16:51:37 <Taneb> I deny that notion profusely
16:51:59 <Phantom_Hoover> In here, at least.
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17:00:27 <cheater> man, i wonder what happened to nihilist dandy
17:00:54 <Taneb> Today I convinced myself that I was a figment of elliott's imagination
17:01:01 <Taneb> I'm not too sure how I managed that.
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17:24:51 <fizzie> Phantom_Hoover: I read it too.
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17:25:34 <Gregor> I figured out why the IOCCC had a category "Best non-chess game" in spite of having no chess game.
17:25:40 <Gregor> The winner in that category has won twice with chess :)
17:25:59 <cheater> hahaha
17:26:17 <cheater> so gregor
17:26:25 <cheater> how was the competition
17:26:35 <Gregor> Err
17:26:46 <cheater> i bet it wasn't one of those things where you win because the only other contestant was a 12 year old kid from kentucky
17:26:49 <Gregor> I don't know how to answer that question, I just submitted something then eventually got an email saying I'd won.
17:26:54 <cheater> haha
17:27:01 <Gregor> It's all behind closed doors.
17:27:02 <fizzie> Gregor: But was it INTENSE.
17:27:03 <cheater> didn't they post anything about the other contestants?
17:27:10 <cheater> fizzie: i do think so as well
17:27:15 <Gregor> cheater: Yeah. About half are repeat winners.
17:27:19 <Gregor> ioccc.org/2011/whowon.html
17:27:33 <Gregor> Naw, not half, only about four actually.
17:27:41 <cheater> Gregor: that's a "yeah" to what?
17:27:47 <cheater> i mean
17:27:50 <cheater> sorry
17:27:54 <cheater> ok i get it now
17:27:58 <cheater> i didn't mean the other winners
17:28:03 <cheater> i meant other contestants that didn't win
17:28:19 <Gregor> No, by tradition they don't say how many or what other entries there were.
17:28:25 <Gregor> Since being on the page is the prize.
17:28:31 <cheater> that's.. kind of weird and silly
17:28:32 <cheater> but i like it
17:32:43 <fizzie> In sorta-related news, the robotfindskitten.org guy, after two years of silence, newsposted that there's 8 new ports and that he'll post them over "the next several days"; then he posted four in six days, but after the fourth there's been no news in a week. Will be interesting to see if there's another two-year gap.
17:33:06 <fizzie> But he's some sort of a graduate student, and those are notoriously unreliable, so...
17:33:22 <Gregor> Eeyup.
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17:52:18 * Sgeo wtfs at cybertown.com
17:53:03 * Gregor wtfs at Sgeo visiting cybertown.com
17:53:33 <Sgeo> How is me visiting what was once one of my favorite places the least bit wtf-worthy?
18:03:16 <Gregor> It's just WEIRD, man. WEIRD. Now I'm going back to watching my marathon of My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic and recordings of accordion virtuosos.
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19:17:02 <kallisti> why am I watching fencing...
19:18:46 <Taneb> Fencing the sport, or fencing the border-defining erection?
19:19:30 <Taneb> I of course mean "erection" completely innocently.
19:20:59 <Gregor> Or fencing as in selling stolen goods?
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19:25:26 <kallisti> Gregor: I've never actually heard of that meaning of the word
19:25:28 <kallisti> I was referring to the sport.
19:26:31 <Gregor> Suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuure.
19:27:27 <fizzie> Spoken like a former fence.
19:28:53 <fizzie> "I've never even heard of the word, and anyway I was completely elsewhere that night, and what pillowcases full of antiques?"
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21:27:16 <oerjan> <Taneb> Today I convinced myself that I was a figment of elliott's imagination
21:27:37 <oerjan> just about to become a solipsist missionary, i take
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21:40:00 <olsner> he must've missed that discussion about #esoteric being oerjan's afterlife
21:41:36 <oerjan> well that discussion was just a figment of my imagination anyway
21:49:15 <olsner> indeed
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21:49:39 <olsner> Taneb is a figment of the imagination of a figment of your imagination
21:59:34 <oerjan> well elliott seems no longer to be a figment.
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22:18:47 <oklopol> Gregor: congrats on winning in the least interesting category in ioccc
22:20:12 <oerjan> nah it's a surprisingly interesting category
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23:06:30 <oklopol> good'n
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23:22:10 <cheater> oklopol: omg u suck
23:22:21 <cheater> oklopol: obviously gregor's category was the GREATEST
23:22:31 <cheater> stop LYING
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23:26:53 <Gregor> <oklopol> Gregor: congrats on winning in the least interesting category in ioccc ||| <cheater> oklopol: obviously gregor's category was the GREATEST
23:26:57 <Gregor> I agree with both accounts.
23:27:10 <Gregor> The reason why it's such a great category is it's obviously a terrible category that makes no sense.
23:27:26 <Gregor> But it's SUCH a stupid category that there must be a reason why they would include it!
23:28:34 <olsner> did you ask them to introduce that category?
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23:30:34 <cheater> "here's my submission, please introduce the category so that i can win as the only contestant"
23:31:39 <Gregor> Well, they clearly invented the category so I could win it.
23:31:54 <Gregor> But that's how the whole category system works for IOCCC.
23:32:38 <itidus22> sort of like starting a war to win the nobel peace prize
23:32:39 <olsner> yes
23:32:58 <itidus22> ok maybe not called for.. i haven't done my research there
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23:40:10 <itidus22> i was jumping the gun a bit.. doesn't seem to be the case
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23:43:02 <Gregor> Anyway, when you see more details on my code later this month or next month, you'll understand :)
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