←2012-02-11 2012-02-12 2012-02-13→ ↑2012 ↑all
00:01:07 <ion>
00:01:20 <zzo38> I don't know
00:01:37 <zzo38> I don't know everything! Didn't you know that?
00:02:03 <monqy> no
00:02:11 <zzo38> Are you sure?
00:13:31 <Sgeo> http://www.linuxbsdos.com/2011/12/17/pear-os-linux-panther-3-review/
00:13:36 <Sgeo> Well, I'm "impressed"
00:16:00 <Gregor> Soooooooooo, think totally different by imitating the most abysmally bad UI available on the market?
00:16:01 <Gregor> So good.
00:18:22 <pikhq_> Imitating it poorly, even.
00:19:58 <fizzie> Gregor: So "funner".
00:20:02 <Sgeo> ....OS X's interface is bad?
00:20:21 <Sgeo> That wasn't really what bothered me >.>
00:20:36 <Sgeo> Just the ... issues, for something that isn't really all that impressive
00:25:05 <Gregor> Yeah, I think it's going to be months before the IOCCC high wears off.
00:25:11 <Gregor> My code hasn't even been published yet.
00:25:13 <Gregor> Maaaaaaaan.
00:25:21 <Gregor> Life. Awesomeness. Life is awesomeness.
00:27:55 <Taneb> Gregor, what does your IOCCC code do?
00:28:21 <ais523> Taneb: it's a portable JIT
00:28:39 <Taneb> JIT?
00:29:52 <Taneb> What's a JIT?
00:30:20 <ais523> just-in-time compiler
00:30:34 <Taneb> Cool, for what language?
00:30:45 <ais523> it was a simple esolang, but not BF
00:30:46 <ais523> I forget which
00:31:11 <fizzie> Wasn't it dc?
00:31:21 <fizzie> Which I suppose counts as an esolang.
00:31:40 <ais523> I don't think so
00:31:41 <ais523> but I'm not sure
00:31:44 <fizzie> I may recall worng; there were so many suggestions.
00:32:06 <fizzie> "Most surprisingly portable
00:32:08 <fizzie> Gregor Richards - JIT dc"
00:32:35 <ais523> ah, I see
00:35:49 <Taneb> Well, goodnight
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00:38:29 <fizzie> Gregor: Thanks to the Law of Conservation of Happiness, the more you enjoy it, the more the non-winners (and non-participants) feel bad.
00:38:58 * Gregor reappears.
00:39:03 <Gregor> Yes, it was for dc.
00:39:05 <Gregor> FOR REASONS.
00:39:14 <Gregor> fizzie: I think it's well established that I'm a terrible human being, so that's fine by me.
00:47:14 <zzo38> I am sorry I am late.
00:49:42 <zzo38> Now that I made Haskell extensible-data package, and then I could make package for trigger events on a stack, similar to Magic: the Gathering, with static effects and so on, where changes are recorded according to the effects on the stack, which can in turn trigger other ones and so on.
00:52:12 <tswett> So, updates on elliott. He's quite good at walking now, and he can even say a few words.
00:52:45 <tswett> fizzie: so, the only way to make other people happier is to suffer yourself?
00:53:01 <tswett> This explains why the Sufferer had all those followers...
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01:25:03 <Sgeo> 0_0
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02:10:18 <zzo38> I am not exactly sure what this kind of data structure should be called
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02:14:14 <calamari> j #kubuntu
02:14:17 <calamari> argh
02:14:38 <calamari> ahh the system tab ate the slash
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02:50:24 <zzo38> What is a system tab and how it ate the slash?
03:46:34 <calamari> freenode
03:48:56 <zzo38> OK
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03:56:22 <Sgeo> "If you've tried KDE and didn't like it, it was probably on a distro which didn't give it as much love and attention as OpenSUSE does."
03:56:27 <Sgeo> This makes me want to try OpenSUSE
03:56:48 <Sgeo> Especially because the main reason I switched away from KDE some time ago was because KDE applications were crashy for me
03:56:54 <Sgeo> On Kubuntu
03:57:59 <pikhq_> I switched away from KDE because I liked 3.x, not 4.x. :)
03:59:06 <zzo38> New in version 0.2.1 of Hampp: Wildcard import/wildcard includes. Wildcard includes are sorted in alphabetical order like in Icoruma; order is irrelevant for imports
03:59:41 <Sgeo> I don't think I've really played with 4.x that much
04:00:08 <Sgeo> I think I did touch it in my UNIX class the other day (We all play with UNIXes in VMs, and keep a log of what we do to it)
04:00:32 <Sgeo> Officially me and my partner in the class are using Linux Mint, but on the side I tried other stuff, don't remember which one had KDE
04:03:16 -!- zzo38 has set topic: putStr "House of -e^(pi*i) IOCCC Winners! | Iuckqlwviv Kjugobe was here. | This topic message is in Chinese when you are not paying attention, and German when you are; it seems English because you are tricked! | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/".
04:04:40 <zzo38> Now these topic message are better????!!!!?!?!?!?!!!?!???!!!!??!?!?!??!???!?!?!??..!?!?..!?..?..!!..!!!.!?!.?
04:05:16 * Sgeo hits zzo38 with an interroban
04:05:19 <Sgeo> interrobang
04:05:35 <zzo38> I cannot type Unicode on IRC so I typed it like that instead.
04:05:38 <Sgeo> Although interroban is a rather inquisitive way to ban someone from an IRC channel, I guess
04:11:08 -!- ion has set topic: putStr "House of −e^(π·i) IOCCC Winners! | Iuckqlwviv Kjugobe was here. | This topic message is in Chinese when you are not paying attention, and German when you are; it seems English because you are tricked! | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/".
04:17:45 <Gregor> <pikhq_> I switched away from KDE because I liked 3.x, not 4.x. :) // ditto
04:17:55 <Gregor> ion: Thanks, I was too lazy to font it up properly X-D
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04:22:32 <ion> > exp (pi * sqrt (-1)) + 1 :: Complex CReal
04:22:33 <lambdabot> 0.0 :+ 0.0
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05:43:58 <zzo38> From this information so far, can you figure out my godfather's middle name?
05:52:34 * Sgeo looks at XenClient longingly
05:53:06 * Sgeo wonders if there are any Free Software versions of the same concept
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06:04:31 <oerjan> finally a sensible topic!
06:18:05 <zzo38> So, you think we did it good job this time?
06:18:30 <oerjan> yep!
06:20:35 <zzo38> I have some idea make some kind of mathematical data structure in Haskell, similar to the stack in Magic: the Gathering, with triggers and so on, but which also records changes as well; but what would such things be called?
06:22:39 <zzo38> Is the topic message going to trick you?
06:22:57 <zzo38> From this information, can you figure out my godfather's middle name?
06:23:10 <oerjan> no.
06:23:11 <zzo38> Do you know Iuckqlwviv Kjugobe?
06:23:40 <zzo38> oerjan: No to which questions, do you mean all four?
06:23:53 <oerjan> that's an exercise for the reader.
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06:24:03 <oerjan> although it was really about your godfather.
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06:24:48 <zzo38> I doubt anyone can figure out my godfather's middle name from this; I do not even know anything about my godfather
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12:30:41 <Taneb> Hello!
12:55:49 <Taneb> I've got a book on Fermat's Last Theorem.
12:55:53 <Taneb> AND I WILL READ IT
12:56:00 <oklopol> i read one when i was a kid
12:56:14 <oklopol> (the proof was not in there, just the history)
12:58:43 <Jafet> Fermat made a marginal contribution to the theorem.
12:58:55 <oklopol> hhh
13:01:03 <Taneb> Actually, today a relative gave me a whole bunch of books on maths
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13:02:53 <oklopol> were there like actual math books?
13:03:02 <oklopol> or that kind of stuff
13:04:17 <Taneb> I don't think they're like exersize or text books
13:05:07 <oklopol> well what size are they then?
13:05:26 <oklopol> but yeah i read a lot of that kind of stuff as a kid
13:05:29 <Taneb> Varies, from pocket-size to hardback size
13:05:53 <oklopol> okay. most of my books are exersize.
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13:31:34 <ion> taneb: http://heh.fi/tmp/fermat
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13:54:11 <kmc> Yes, I'll tell you, I'll tell why I'm lying here, but God forgive me, and God help us all, because you don't know what you ask of me.
14:17:03 <Gregor> And that's the story of how kmc killed a room full of strangers. THE END.
14:25:32 <kmc> No moral.
14:30:22 <Gregor> Morals are for pussies.
14:31:36 <itidus20> kmc later died of natural causes, finally bringing closure to the families of his victims.
14:34:32 <Gregor> As kmc was over six hundred years old at the time, the immediate families were all dead, so there really wasn't much closure to be had.
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17:11:59 <kallisti> Tootoot222: so.... you haven't learned anything. good.
17:12:12 <kallisti> NOSTALGIA. ;_;
17:15:49 <kallisti> wow I'm so bad at linux
17:16:15 -!- Gregor has set topic: putStr "House of −e^(π·i) IOCCC Winners! | How do I Linux!^H? | This topic message is in Chinese when you are not paying attention, and German when you are; it seems English because you are tricked! | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/".
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20:04:41 <Phantom_Hoover> ais523, wake up??
20:04:42 <lambdabot> Phantom_Hoover: You have 3 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them.
20:07:14 <ais523> Phantom_Hoover: I'm here…
20:07:29 <fizzie> The ominous ….
20:10:08 <Phantom_Hoover> "We've traced the ais523! He's on the floor below you!" But it was too late.
20:15:20 <fizzie> I'm confused, now. Shouldn't something be happ... ohhhh, it's about the waikiki again?
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20:39:04 <Taneb> Hello!
20:39:34 <monqy> hi
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20:53:39 <Taneb> To implement ZOMBIE in Haskell, you'd use... System.Random and Control.Concurrent, for a start
20:55:27 * Sgeo looks at Factor for some reason
20:56:28 <Taneb> Factor?
20:56:58 <Sgeo> http://factorcode.org/
20:57:08 <fizzie> It's like 3 is a factor of 6.
20:57:18 <fizzie> $ factor 6
20:57:18 <fizzie> 6: 2 3
20:57:19 <fizzie> See.
20:57:43 <zzo38> Kjugobe left so soon?
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21:42:25 <damageinc> hi
21:44:24 <Gregor> `@ damageinc ? welcome
21:44:34 <HackEgo> damageinc: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
21:45:16 <damageinc> im not clickin any links
21:45:35 <Gregor> Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhkidokielokie X-D
21:46:16 <damageinc> ?
21:46:26 <damageinc> you on somethin ?
21:46:56 <damageinc> something e s o t e r i c maybe
21:47:25 <ais523> damageinc: err, do you understand what the channel's about? or, umm, anything at all?
21:47:35 <ais523> you just seem to be churning out non sequiturs
21:47:55 <damageinc> this
21:47:55 <Gregor> To be fair, "im not clickin any links" isn't a non sequitur, it's more just silly.
21:48:02 <damageinc> also
21:48:25 * Gregor nods sagely.
21:48:40 <fizzie> You never know, about links.
21:49:00 <Gregor> Pretty much every page on the esowiki that isn't tubgirl, is meatspin.
21:49:11 <damageinc> cant to be too careful with whom you meet online
21:49:49 <ais523> Gregor: don't
21:49:59 <Gregor> Piff.
22:00:24 <calamari> Gregor: do I detect a Pinkie Pie reference?
22:02:44 <damageinc> you know theres apps that let you rate your buddies
22:03:03 <damageinc> if for example one of your buddies calls you a name
22:03:13 <damageinc> you can lower his ratings
22:03:20 <zzo38> damageinc: That doesn't interest me
22:03:42 <zzo38> I don't care if they call me a name, much
22:04:20 <damageinc> no me neither
22:04:57 <damageinc> but it was just an example
22:05:08 <damageinc> they got way more options ofcourse
22:05:14 <zzo38> OK. Still, that kind of apps don't interest me
22:05:27 <damageinc> for example
22:05:35 <damageinc> if one of your buddies
22:05:40 <damageinc> makes you
22:05:41 <damageinc> like
22:05:44 <damageinc> for example
22:05:49 <damageinc> a compliment
22:05:56 <damageinc> you can upper his ratings
22:06:21 <zzo38> I don't need to rate my buddies
22:06:29 <damageinc> cause you dont have no buddies
22:06:37 <zzo38> O, that's why.
22:06:37 <damageinc> but others may have em
22:07:02 <damageinc> yes
22:08:07 <fizzie> @karma
22:08:07 <lambdabot> You have a karma of 1
22:08:09 <fizzie> Yes, there's these things.
22:10:20 <itidus20> damageinc: don't worry... if its a website non-geeks would inhabit, then... these guys probably wouldn't ^.^;
22:10:53 <damageinc> thanks itidus20
22:11:03 <damageinc> that makes me feel better
22:11:11 <itidus20> just take a look at the room topic
22:11:28 <damageinc> yes its a bit vague
22:11:35 <itidus20> ah
22:11:50 <damageinc> so i thought maybe you guys are on something e s o t e r i c
22:12:04 <Taneb> ...Do you even know what esoteric means?
22:12:06 <zzo38> damageinc: Do you know the esolang wiki?
22:12:15 <monqy> `? esoteric
22:12:16 <damageinc> no
22:12:19 <HackEgo> This channel is about programming -- for the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.
22:12:25 <zzo38> Then read esolang wiki
22:12:42 <zzo38> We do, however, discuss a lot of completely differerent things in this channel
22:12:45 <damageinc> im not gonna click links especially not from someone that has no buddies
22:12:56 <itidus20> this is secretly the official haskell channel... just nobody told that to #haskell
22:13:09 <damageinc> no shit
22:13:29 * itidus20 looks around with shifty eyes,
22:13:44 <damageinc> you on to something mate
22:13:52 <damageinc> you on * something mate
22:14:07 <zzo38> The topic message mentioned Iuckqlwviv Kjugobe yesterday but they must have left already
22:14:41 <itidus20> ok ... im tired of showing off how stupid i am.. ill just explain the truth
22:14:49 <damageinc> oh no
22:15:08 <itidus20> this channel is about mostly useless computer programming languages
22:15:17 <ion> such as Haskell
22:15:20 <itidus20> it has nothing to do with the occult
22:15:30 <Taneb> Or with drugs
22:15:32 <calamari> itidus20: I think you mean mostly awesome
22:15:37 <damageinc> im sure it doesnt
22:15:50 <itidus20> lol..
22:16:10 <damageinc> lol i thought this was some really weirdos channel
22:16:12 <zzo38> This channel is mostly about esoteric programming, but we also discuss nearly anything in this channel sometimes
22:16:31 <ion> damageinc: It is.
22:16:33 <zzo38> damageinc: Well, sometimes we are really weirdo
22:16:53 <damageinc> but sane
22:17:03 <damageinc> weird but sane
22:17:10 <zzo38> Sometimes we are sane too.
22:17:14 <damageinc> lol
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22:17:28 <itidus20> im just not skilled enough to actually stay on topic
22:17:29 <damageinc> pffew
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22:17:45 <itidus20> these esoteric programming languages are pretty heavy going mentally
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22:17:59 <damageinc> true that
22:18:44 <calamari> I never got the hang of the functional langs
22:20:06 <itidus20> calamari: it's because that mathematicians always have to explain things in terms of the entire field of mathematics
22:20:20 <zzo38> I have invented some esolangs, and I also like to play as monster character in D&D game. And also Astrolog (I think they ought to add GPS input too). And mathematics.
22:20:29 <itidus20> they can't dumb things down because then they don't believe they are explaining the same thing any more
22:20:47 <monqy> what
22:20:57 <monqy> itidus20: hi
22:20:59 <zzo38> I like mathematics too
22:21:10 <calamari> was tossing around an idea the other day.. nothing groundbreaking tho
22:21:14 <itidus20> yeah.. its all or nothing with formal consistency
22:21:31 <zzo38> Recently I have been studying category theory too and its relation with Haskell programming
22:21:39 <calamari> been a while since I was in the language creation mode
22:22:30 <itidus20> uhhh
22:22:43 <itidus20> i think there is a bootstrapping necessary to understand functional programming
22:22:53 <zzo38> itidus20: Are you sure?
22:22:58 <itidus20> no
22:24:57 <itidus20> it may be that the math guys lose all sense of how non math guys think
22:25:07 <itidus20> when trying to explain things
22:25:30 <itidus20> or it could be i just think weird
22:25:48 <monqy> I thought it was well-established that you just think weird
22:26:24 <zzo38> There may be many people on this channel who think weird
22:26:39 <pikhq_> itidus20: Uh, but forall x in X (lambda y. y y) x = x!
22:26:51 <itidus20> to understand a language, is to be in a position where you feel absolutely and utterly overwhelmed by the range of possible constructions you can make
22:26:56 <pikhq_> The above statement brought to you by "throw random shit together"
22:27:07 <itidus20> so overwhelmed that the thought does not even occur to you to try to grasp it all at once
22:30:37 <itidus20> and i just can't get that feeling with mathematics :P
22:30:47 <itidus20> well some of it i can.. the simple parts
22:30:59 <itidus20> such as arithmetic
22:31:53 <Taneb> itidus20, try learning Haskell?
22:32:01 <pikhq_> The thing with mathematics is, it's huge. You really end up learning what's common to most all fields, and then you *can* learn specific things in detail. And that first bit is actually a decent bit of work if you're starting from ~0 knowledge.
22:32:01 <monqy> Taneb: don't go there
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22:32:17 <monqy> Taneb: do you realize what you're getting into
22:32:27 <Taneb> monqy, I never do.
22:32:32 <Taneb> It's done no harm so far
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22:32:34 <itidus20> worse is the notion of the turing tarpit.. like.. what do people even investigate turing tarpits for
22:32:39 <pikhq_> (I shall consider a US high school education "~0 knowledge", as that's largely education on "plug things in here and you get numbers out")]
22:32:46 <itidus20> if they will never really use them
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22:33:13 <itidus20> i can only assume they gather some ideas about things from it
22:33:17 <pikhq_> itidus20: Turing tarpits are investigated for two reasons: some interesting property they may have (see: cellular automatons), or just because they're fun (see: #esoteric)
22:33:33 <damageinc> then they dont understand object oriented either
22:33:41 <oklopol> cellular automata mm
22:33:43 <damageinc> wow
22:34:02 <itidus20> Taneb: ok the thing is that i know that haskell will resolve into machine code.. that is like a conceptual safety net
22:34:16 <monqy> itidus20: no it's not
22:34:17 <itidus20> but untyped lambda calculus... i don't know what to make of it
22:34:26 <damageinc> then you math guys dont understand object oriented programming either
22:34:35 <monqy> itidus20: it's dangernet made of knives and broken glass
22:35:48 <damageinc> what ?
22:35:51 <itidus20> monqy: an important point is a haskell program running on a given machine can't actually do more than the inherent capability of the underlying machine itself
22:35:52 <damageinc> no fires ?
22:37:10 <itidus20> i kind of rely on this idea :P
22:37:30 <damageinc> but the processor is a linear device so functional programming follows from that
22:37:37 <monqy> itidus20: :'(
22:37:46 <itidus20> damageinc: well it doesn't have to though.. i accept that
22:37:52 <itidus20> that the machine could be anything
22:39:09 <itidus20> i don't know
22:39:12 <itidus20> ....
22:39:14 <damageinc> i ask you
22:39:20 <itidus20> i'm only trying to avoid headaches guys...
22:39:27 <damageinc> the computer is :
22:39:33 <damageinc> 1) a calculator
22:39:40 <damageinc> 2) a typewriter
22:39:45 <damageinc> 3) a tv
22:39:51 <damageinc> 4) a brochure
22:39:53 <damageinc> choose
22:39:56 <itidus20> really theres no agenda on my part to cause pain or suffering through promotion of non-functional lanngs
22:40:47 <itidus20> damageinc: this room is about the essence of programming :D
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22:40:58 <itidus20> it is guaranteed to shock you a bit
22:41:08 <damageinc> ok itidus20
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22:41:12 <itidus20> i already mentioned i am a bit stupid about it
22:41:41 <damageinc> i wouldnt
22:41:43 <itidus20> your conventional ideas of computer programming will be challenged in here
22:41:47 <oklopol> okokokokokokokokokokokokoko
22:42:07 <oklopol> WELCOME ESOTERICA
22:42:15 * damageinc abandons all conventional ideas
22:44:03 <oklopol> we just submitted this paper about computational properties of cellular automata on sets X of bi-infinite sequences obtained by forbidding a regular language of subwords so that the there's a polynomial p such that there are at most p(n) subwords of length n in every sequence in X
22:45:47 * damageinc <-- knows some lex and yacc
22:46:08 -!- variable has quit (Excess Flood).
22:46:24 <damageinc> and linux admin too lol
22:46:40 <damageinc> do not go online as root
22:46:58 <damageinc> thats a freekick on where i come from
22:47:22 <oklopol> in particular, how for a CA f, and such a set X, the subset Y of X of bi-infinite sequences y such that there exists a point x in X such that for arbitrarily large m, f^n(x) agrees with y in a window of size m around the origin for some m and arbitrarily large n, has the property that for all turing machines having an oracle that has an oracle that solves the halting problem can be
22:47:27 <oklopol> many-one reduced to Y
22:47:36 <oklopol> oh god i love opening up definitions
22:48:01 <oklopol> well for suitably chosen f and X i mean
22:48:50 * oklopol contemplates his next overly complicated and incomprehensible sentence
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22:57:01 <itidus20> yeah i may as well be reading a foreign language
22:58:16 <itidus20> me vain esittneet tmn paperin noin laskennallisessa ominaisuuksista cellular automaattien on sarjaa X on bi-retn sekvenssit saadaan kieltmll snnllinen kieli alisanat niin, ett on olemassa polynomi p sellainen, ett on korkeintaan p (n) alisanat pituus on n jokaisessa jrjestyksess X
22:58:51 <damageinc> ok i think we just lost itidus20
22:58:58 <itidus20> i mean that in good spirits though
22:59:11 <monqy> damageinc: nah he's always like this
23:00:08 <Gregor> <calamari> Gregor: do I detect a Pinkie Pie reference? // NONSENSE
23:01:14 <Gregor> Just to be clear (if anybody's still paying attention), I don't want to read the backlog, right?
23:02:33 <Jafet> oklopol gets paid to prove that CAs are Turing-hard?
23:02:45 <calamari> Gregor: suuure :P
23:02:47 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
23:03:05 <itidus20> i remember when i was 4 years old i didn't anticipate communicating to a room full of overseas people on a full colour computer and translating a paragraph automatically into a foreign language in a chatroom full of people who use a language named brainfuck
23:03:30 <itidus20> i can say that with as much certainty as anything
23:03:36 <Phantom_Hoover> <Gregor> Just to be clear (if anybody's still paying attention), I don't want to read the backlog, right?
23:03:41 <oklopol> well actually even in that article, the most interesting stuff was of purely mathematical nature, but we added some computational stuff since we're aiming for a cs conference.
23:03:51 <oklopol> but yeah basically
23:03:52 <Phantom_Hoover> Unless you find oko obfuscating his research worth reading.
23:04:00 <Gregor> calamari: I would never quote that show. That would be THE. WORST. POSSIBLE. THING.
23:04:32 <oklopol> hey i didn't obfuscate it
23:04:36 -!- Zuu has quit (Quit: Reconnecting).
23:04:40 -!- Zuu has joined.
23:04:45 <oklopol> i just did some inlining
23:04:48 <oklopol> for efficiency
23:05:01 <itidus20> oklopol: i could read it if i knew what those terms meant :P
23:05:02 <Phantom_Hoover> Yes, it wasn't particularly inspired obfuscating.
23:05:10 <itidus20> hahaha
23:05:10 <oklopol> itidus20: which terms?
23:05:10 <calamari> Gregor: well then prepare yourself: "okie dokie lokie Used often in the children's television show 'My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic' by the character Pinkie Pie."
23:05:14 <itidus20> all of them
23:05:20 <itidus20> so i decided not to ask
23:05:27 <Phantom_Hoover> itidus20, I know what all those terms mean and I can't read it.
23:05:52 <oklopol> itidus20: i attempted to open up all definitions that people don't know
23:06:00 <itidus20> hahaha
23:06:00 <Gregor> calamari: Your failure to detect my followup reference proves that you have insufficient radicalness.
23:06:04 <oklopol> which of course makes it harder to read, see my inlining joke.
23:06:29 <itidus20> technically when i hear CA i imagine a chessboard
23:06:46 <itidus20> but i know a CA can exist in n dimensions so i am already off to a bad start
23:06:48 <oklopol> so basically, CA running on zero-entropy sofic shifts have RE^RE^RE-hard limit sets
23:07:06 <oklopol> which i've mentioned before
23:07:20 <calamari> Gregor: :( I fail
23:07:22 <Phantom_Hoover> 22:06:29: <damageinc> cause you dont have no buddies
23:07:22 <Phantom_Hoover> 22:06:37: <zzo38> O, that's why.
23:07:48 <Phantom_Hoover> zzo38, please tell me that it's something you just realised there.
23:07:55 <oklopol> Phantom_Hoover: would be fun to try to actually obfuscate some math though. the problem is bad mathematicians will still be better at it.
23:08:28 <Phantom_Hoover> Esomaths.
23:08:41 <Phantom_Hoover> You have a crazy axiom system and try to reduce it to ZFC.
23:09:02 <Jafet> Prepared peano.
23:09:25 <calamari> bronies everywhere
23:09:25 <Phantom_Hoover> Although that'd just end up with endless "if we turn this definition upside down and apply Zobamogsky's progression to it they're trivially equivalent."
23:09:28 <itidus20> hmm
23:09:46 <Gregor> calamari: Pretty sure I'm the only one (we're the only ones?) in this channel.
23:09:58 <calamari> maybe so
23:09:59 <oklopol> for example, people who start math in their thirties or later. this one chick at uni has been doing math for roughly as long as me, and if she hears the same term with a completely different definition in two different fields she's like oh i know this stuff already no need to explain.
23:10:02 <itidus20> i think i can safely say operand is to noun as operator is to verb... but beyond these... i wonder if there is anything else
23:10:29 <Phantom_Hoover> Someone once tricked me into saying I was a brony, does that count?
23:10:34 <Jafet> Just invent the axiomatic equivalent of malbolge
23:10:38 <oklopol> and i'm like no it's just a naming convention, they have no known connections really. and she's like nah they're both cycles.
23:10:46 <Jafet> You might even inspire new developments in model theory
23:10:46 <oklopol> a cycle is a cycle.
23:11:11 <oklopol> itidus20: i do CA theory pretty much exclusively in one dimension
23:11:49 <calamari> Gregor: gone to any meetups? I can't remember where you are these days, but I think they have a pretty big group in Seattle
23:11:52 <Phantom_Hoover> oklopol, every time I encounter stuff like that I assume that there's some ridiculous equivalence which is completely mad that you meet later on.
23:12:17 <zzo38> Phantom_Hoover: Actually, I was simply answering damageinc's question.
23:12:22 <oklopol> yeah that's why i always say "known connections" just in case
23:12:31 <Gregor> calamari: Aside from the fact that I'm the least sociable person on the planet, I'm in the middle of friggin' nowhere at graduate school.
23:12:47 <itidus20> oklopol: i imagine the problem there is that if you wanted to map an infinite 2d CA onto a 1d CA.. you would run into troubles
23:12:58 <Jafet> Diagonalize!
23:13:04 <calamari> lol then you don't understand brony meetups.. they are full of unsociable nerds
23:13:12 <zzo38> Does anyone in this channel have GHC 7.4? I asked in #haskell channel nobody answer, I can try again, or I can try #ghc possibly, but I will also ask here
23:13:13 <Gregor> Naturally.
23:13:18 <Gregor> But I'm too asocial even for that.
23:13:22 <oklopol> itidus20: the problem?
23:14:03 <itidus20> the problem is perhaps in my limited conceptions
23:14:06 <calamari> speaking of which, I'd better wrap this up, I'm the organizer here in tucson
23:14:14 <oklopol> in general, you can't map a 2D CA to a 1D ca in any sensible way when working with infinite sequences / tilings
23:14:19 <Phantom_Hoover> help who is damageinc why is he an idiot
23:14:19 <Phantom_Hoover> `quote purdue
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23:14:23 <HackEgo> 294) <Phantom__Hoover> Gregor, yeah, but Purdue has poultry science facilities beyond the dreams of avarice.
23:14:30 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
23:14:37 <Gregor> It's true!
23:14:38 <oklopol> with a finite playground, all is naturally boring
23:15:03 <itidus20> oklopol: the problem being a potential need for 2d.. or perhaps not
23:15:11 <monqy> Phantom_Hoover: some new guy, as far as I can tell
23:15:17 <itidus20> i wonder if the 2d actually brings anything to the table
23:15:18 <monqy> as for why he's an idiot, I don't know
23:15:35 <Phantom_Hoover> monqy, perhaps he was once bitten by a radioactive idiot.
23:15:40 <calamari> been trying to edit the pitch of a certain fan characters voice to be a little higher
23:15:50 <oklopol> well my colleague's graduate thesis was about the difference between the 1d and the multi-d case
23:15:50 <Phantom_Hoover> guys
23:15:51 <Phantom_Hoover> guys
23:16:00 <Phantom_Hoover> no bronying in here please
23:16:01 <itidus20> he.. found his way in here by accident.. and he knows a lot more than me :D
23:16:18 <calamari> Phantom_Hoover: or what? you'll puke rainbows?
23:16:21 <Gregor> Phantom_Hoover: Fine fine, I'll never brony again ... cross my heart and hope to fly, stick a cupcake in my eye!
23:16:31 <oklopol> so yeah 2d does. 3d is basically the same as 2d in the sense natural yes/no questions usually have the same answer.
23:16:36 <Phantom_Hoover> i will stab you both with the rainbow
23:16:45 <Phantom_Hoover> i will make the rainbow into a laser
23:16:55 <Gregor> TOO SPICY
23:17:07 <calamari> just gotta mix it with a bit of cloud
23:17:11 <Phantom_Hoover> itidus20, astonishing as the proposition is, I think he's dumber than you.
23:17:41 <oklopol> Gregor: kick Gregor for being a brony
23:17:54 <Gregor> oklopol: Sorry, don't have ops!
23:17:59 <Gregor> ... clops?
23:18:00 <Gregor> No, ops.
23:18:29 <Phantom_Hoover> fizzie, the duty falls to you.
23:18:43 <calamari> when did you before infected?
23:18:47 <calamari> *become
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23:19:06 <oklopol> <zzo38> I don't need to rate my buddies
23:19:06 <oklopol> <damageinc> cause you dont have no buddies
23:19:06 <oklopol> <zzo38> O, that's why.
23:19:19 <oklopol> something about that makes me tingle.
23:19:41 <Gregor> OK, I've registered #esoteric-ponies.
23:20:12 <calamari> I don't believe you but I have to check anyways
23:20:21 <oklopol> almost as if zzo38 made a snipe
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23:22:49 <damageinc> why would you do that Gregor ?
23:22:55 <itidus20> oklopol: but i suppose if you were to have some kind of spiral mapping from 2d into 1d that would be the way to go hence your "in any sensible way"
23:23:19 <oklopol> that won't be a 1D CA though.
23:23:27 <damageinc> Gregor: ponies ?
23:23:31 <itidus20> hmm
23:23:32 <oklopol> the map is not defined by a local rule
23:23:49 * damageinc *shrugs*
23:24:19 <itidus20> oh man
23:24:37 <oklopol> it's a *continuous function*, but the image at n does not depend only on the word you see at [n-k, n+k]
23:24:40 <oklopol> for some fixed k
23:24:47 <oklopol> (this is the definition of a 1d CA)
23:25:28 <oklopol> and by "image at n" i mean the value you see in cell n after applying the CA
23:26:16 <damageinc> it almost seems as if youre trying to define space
23:26:24 <oklopol> define space?
23:26:39 <damageinc> lol
23:26:48 <monqy> itidus20's long lost twin
23:26:55 <oklopol> we're working with the topological space S^Z, where Z is the integers and S is a finite set
23:27:10 <oklopol> the topology is the product topology obtained from the discrete topology of S
23:27:10 <Jafet> Take heart, oklopol, this is your one chance to learn bad mathematics
23:27:47 <oklopol> which means, a continuous function from S^Z to S^Z is a function such that the image at n only depends on the contents of some finite window around the origin
23:28:24 <oklopol> or equivalently, a window around n of finite size.
23:28:47 <oklopol> (they are equivalent because you can extend the windows to a common larger one, and it's still finite.)
23:29:01 <damageinc> wrong
23:29:25 <damageinc> you conveniently forgot einsteins there
23:29:26 <oklopol> yeah maybe i shouldn't be given ops here like ever
23:29:39 <damageinc> lol
23:29:44 <damageinc> nevertheless
23:30:13 <oklopol> you would've been kicked before you had time to elaborate that you were *intentionally* trolling
23:30:16 <zzo38> `ghc --version
23:30:20 <HackEgo> The Glorious Glasgow Haskell Compilation System, version 7.2.1
23:30:28 <oklopol> zzo38: i liked your comment earlier, did you see
23:30:36 <zzo38> oklopol: Yes I did see.
23:30:46 <damageinc> you cannot arbitrarily extend the size of the windowz and claim there is no change
23:31:14 <damageinc> cause correct me if im wrong
23:31:14 <Phantom_Hoover> damageinc, stop embarrassing yourself please.
23:31:24 <oklopol> you can't, huh
23:31:34 <damageinc> you dont take into consideration the properties of its space
23:31:39 <oklopol> ohh
23:31:41 <oklopol> shit
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23:31:52 <oklopol> i need to retract our article o_o
23:31:55 <zzo38> Is it possible to test a Template Haskell code on HackEgo?
23:32:02 <damageinc> oklopol: :)
23:32:09 <damageinc> who knows oklopol
23:32:37 <zzo38> I also need to test unsafeCoerce and GHC.Exts.Any so lambdabot won't work
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23:35:01 <oklopol> damageinc: can you give me an example of an ENDOMORPHISM f of S^Z IN THE CATEGORY OF SETS such that f(x)_0 depends solely on the word x_{[-n, n]} but does not solely depend on the word x_{[-m, m]} for some m > n?
23:35:27 <oklopol> i mean a function from S^Z to itself
23:35:47 <damageinc> nop
23:35:55 <oklopol> do you mean the identity map???
23:35:57 -!- calamari has quit (Client Quit).
23:36:09 <damageinc> no probably not
23:36:12 <oklopol> okay
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23:37:50 <damageinc> wow
23:37:54 <oklopol> yeah i'm not making any sense.
23:37:55 <damageinc> whats with the caps
23:38:02 <oklopol> in case you cannot tell the difference
23:38:09 <monqy> you broke him
23:38:11 <monqy> :'(
23:38:30 <oklopol> damageinc: the fuck is a flamewar without caps?
23:38:42 <damageinc> flamewar ?
23:38:49 <oklopol> do you know what that means
23:38:55 <damageinc> sure
23:39:01 <oklopol> well what's the problem then
23:39:24 <oklopol> why are you on irc if you don't want to have an intense flamewar?
23:39:25 <itidus20> i have very thick skin myself.. i can keep coming back despite not understanding 70% of the things that go on here
23:39:34 <damageinc> i was confused between real space and YOUR working space
23:39:56 <damageinc> and
23:39:58 <oklopol> were you making a serious comment in some other context?
23:40:05 <Phantom_Hoover> itidus20, I do not think you understand 30% of any given sentence posted here.
23:40:13 <damageinc> you asked for it by saying abandon all whatever
23:40:26 <Jafet> 30% is a mean.
23:40:28 <oklopol> i try my best to keep everyone except oerjan under 99%
23:40:40 <oklopol> but you guys talk a lot :/
23:41:35 <oklopol> damageinc: well you shouldn't abandon everything you know about math, math is so insane all by itself that we don't have to obfuscate it deliberately.
23:41:55 <zzo38> I like mathematics
23:42:05 <oklopol> me and zzo38
23:42:08 <itidus20> hmm .. maybe math is esoteric at all times
23:42:09 <oklopol> we are math bros
23:42:13 <oklopol> monies.
23:42:37 * itidus20 blinks a bit
23:42:38 <damageinc> real math or virtual math ?
23:42:54 <monqy> what
23:42:56 <itidus20> i guess technically math is inherently exoteric
23:43:03 <oklopol> can you be slightly more specific
23:43:10 <damageinc> well
23:43:12 <oklopol> math on reals or "real math" in some other sense
23:43:24 <itidus20> exateric?
23:43:25 <damageinc> in my opinion virtual math is a myth
23:43:37 <Jafet> Hot virtual math, on your desktop now
23:43:41 <zzo38> damageinc: What do you mean by virtual math anyways?
23:43:53 <Phantom_Hoover> Wow, virtual isn't used in maths at all, apparently.
23:43:55 <itidus20> damageinc: do you mean.. ideal vs actual?
23:43:57 <oklopol> i think a myth needs to have been heard of by someone in order to have inherent mythical value
23:44:19 <oklopol> Phantom_Hoover: I'M ON IT
23:44:23 <damageinc> well its probably nothing
23:44:56 -!- Phantom_Hoover has left ("Leaving").
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23:45:03 <monqy> hi
23:45:07 <Phantom_Hoover> Which one's the Salo topology?
23:45:07 <oklopol> bye hi.
23:45:14 <oklopol> do you know my name?
23:45:16 <itidus20> hmmmmmmmmmmmm
23:45:29 <itidus20> virtual math might be related to the matrix of solidity
23:45:36 <oklopol> :O
23:45:57 <oklopol> my next article
23:45:59 <damageinc> i dont believe in virtual math anyway
23:46:01 <itidus20> `quote tree
23:46:04 <HackEgo> 80) <fedoragirl> My mascot is a tree of broccoli. \ 259) <zzo38> ais523: Maybe it is better, because I don't think the octopus will live very well in the tree. But the difference is that the Internet is lying and you cannot see such things; you could make modified picture, though, in order to lie more clearly, at least. \ 296) <treederwright> enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity \ 708) <Phantom__Hoover>
23:46:12 <oklopol> damageinc: you do realize none of us know what virtual math is?
23:46:17 <damageinc> ok
23:46:25 <oklopol> can you educate us?
23:46:29 <zzo38> I don't know what "virtual math" means
23:46:31 <damageinc> i also said its probably nothing
23:46:45 <Phantom_Hoover> <oklopol> do you know my name?
23:46:47 <damageinc> zzo38: dont ask
23:46:49 <Taneb> `quote Taneb
23:46:50 <Phantom_Hoover> Yes, that's why I'm asking.
23:46:52 <HackEgo> 460) <Taneb> Turned out he got recursion, he just didn't get the return statement \ 466) <Taneb> Cut to February <Taneb> War were declared <Taneb> A galaxy in turmoil <Taneb> Anyway, Febuary '10 \ 467) <Taneb> I can't afford one of those! <Taneb> A grandchild, not a laser printer \ 474) <fizzie> There's that saying that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different
23:46:57 <itidus20> damageinc: its healthy and natural to be confused in here....
23:47:04 <oklopol> Phantom_Hoover: oh. well i don't know yet. have to know what virtual subshifts are first.
23:47:06 <Phantom_Hoover> `pastequotes Taneb
23:47:10 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.7841
23:47:36 <Taneb> That's... scarily empty
23:48:22 <oklopol> it would be a bit oklo of me to call something the salo topology.
23:48:26 <Taneb> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.30588
23:49:52 <itidus20> lol "614) <Taneb> I think this has taught us one thing. We can't teach itidus20 lambda calculus by comittee"
23:50:11 <Taneb> Just as true now as it was that sad, sad day
23:50:16 <oklopol> well it uses advanced concepts like binding and free variables
23:50:33 <itidus20> or does it?
23:50:36 <itidus20> who can say for sure
23:50:39 <oklopol> true
23:50:42 <oklopol> so very true
23:50:49 <oklopol> i think we're at the core of all understanding
23:51:39 <Taneb> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.20660
23:51:49 <Phantom_Hoover> Don't say that, that's exactly the sort of thing that got iti to stay.
23:52:03 <damageinc> wow
23:52:12 <damageinc> thanks Phantom_Hoover
23:52:14 <Phantom_Hoover> We don't want damageinc getting the impression that anyone actually wants him here.
23:52:26 <monqy> phantom hoover "a real jerk. thanks a lot"
23:52:34 <monqy> woops I misplaced
23:52:36 <monqy> "oh well"
23:52:45 <damageinc> < oklopol> i think we're at the core of all understanding <-- wow !
23:52:58 <zzo38> Phantom_Hoover: I don't care really
23:53:26 <oklopol> :D
23:53:37 <oklopol> oh ph u so awesome
23:53:40 <itidus20> i'm incapable of disliking people who leave me to my own devices
23:54:07 <zzo38> How long does it take for Hackage to report a build failure?
23:54:15 <Taneb> `quote 690
23:54:19 <HackEgo> 690) <Ngevd> I'm neither Norwegian nor Finnish <Ngevd> I don't fit in your quaint little categories
23:54:27 <itidus20> lol
23:54:28 <zzo38> `quote 999
23:54:31 <HackEgo> No output.
23:54:42 <damageinc> lies
23:54:50 <Taneb> `quote 678
23:54:54 <HackEgo> 678) <yrlnry> I personally use while ("Cogito, ergo sum") { ... } because since that is a priori true, it is true in all possible universes, and therefore ensures maximum portability.
23:54:57 <Taneb> `quote 678
23:55:01 <HackEgo> 678) <yrlnry> I personally use while ("Cogito, ergo sum") { ... } because since that is a priori true, it is true in all possible universes, and therefore ensures maximum portability.
23:55:03 <Taneb> `quote 678
23:55:06 <Phantom_Hoover> oklopol, does everyone else find it impossible to work out exactly how ironic everything you say is?
23:55:07 <HackEgo> 678) <yrlnry> I personally use while ("Cogito, ergo sum") { ... } because since that is a priori true, it is true in all possible universes, and therefore ensures maximum portability.
23:55:11 <Taneb> RAAAARGH
23:55:14 <zzo38> Hay! Stop repeating yourself please!
23:55:19 <Phantom_Hoover> I never can and I always end up feeling stupid.
23:55:23 <Taneb> `quote 678) <N
23:55:27 <HackEgo> grep: unmatched parentheses
23:55:39 <Phantom_Hoover> this is the best
23:55:42 <Taneb> `quote 669
23:55:46 <HackEgo> 669) <HackEgo> 678) <Ngevd> Dammit, Gregor, this is not the time to fall in love <HackEgo> 187) <alise> Gregor: You should never have got her pregnant. <Gregor> what whaaaaaaaaaaaat
23:55:54 <oklopol> Phantom_Hoover: the problem is that i'm sort of beyond the whole concept, usually even i can't tell if i'm being sarcastic or not.
23:55:57 <oklopol> or what my point is
23:56:18 <Phantom_Hoover> oklopol, does this also apply to your papers.
23:56:20 <oklopol> yes
23:56:20 <Taneb> `quote 648
23:56:21 <zzo38> Sarcastic? Don't you mean ascetic?
23:56:24 <HackEgo> 648) <Ngevd> Dammit, Gregor, this is not the time to fall in love
23:56:37 <Taneb> zzo38, isn't that the people who don't have any worldly possessions?
23:56:46 <oklopol> there are no errors in my papers, only the occasional sarcasm.
23:57:00 <zzo38> Taneb: Probably.
23:57:03 <itidus20> Taneb: it can also be worse than that...
23:57:16 <oklopol> and i can't tell which parts are sarcasm and which are not!
23:57:53 <Taneb> Nobody else edits the TVTropes article on a card game I made...
23:57:54 <Taneb> :(
23:57:55 * damageinc taps oklopol on shoulder
23:58:11 <oklopol> ^^
23:58:18 <zzo38> Do you need TVTropes cards to play this game?
23:58:32 <Taneb> No, but it has many tropes
23:58:41 <damageinc> and one t too many
23:59:16 <oklopol> i THINK "^^" was actually a sarcastic emoticon.
23:59:28 <monqy> what if it wasn't
23:59:38 <oklopol> i don't know. would that make a difference?
23:59:52 <oklopol> what's the point of anything? TELL ME
23:59:56 <oklopol> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulIOrQasR18
23:59:57 <itidus20> Taneb: could you link to said article?
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