←2012-02-20 2012-02-21 2012-02-22→ ↑2012 ↑all
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01:45:31 <oerjan> @tell kallisti hm, due to a cutoff edit in 2007 the specification for dupdog seems to have lost the halting on shanty output - and i only noticed it now, despite correcting the rest of the cutoff at the time
01:45:31 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
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02:55:10 <PiRSquared17> alandipert: waiting for DIPERT
02:55:26 <PiRSquared17> we're waiting I think
03:01:01 <quintopia> the ALAN DIPERT has arrived
03:01:40 <shachaf> No, we're done waiting for THE ALAN DIPERT.
03:02:21 <shachaf> We're waiting for THE ELLIOTT HIRD of HEXHAM now. Or maybe for RAWK BAND.
03:04:24 <quintopia> hohou?
03:05:36 <shachaf> Hey, you can still get songs from RAWK BAND.
03:05:59 * shachaf will refrain, though.
03:07:43 <quintopia> pun?
03:07:57 <shachaf> ?
03:10:45 <quintopia> "refrain"
03:12:41 <shachaf> Oh.
03:12:43 <shachaf> No.
03:12:54 <shachaf> I wonder if elliott is reading these logs RIGHT NOW.
03:13:03 <shachaf> ("RIGHT NOW" as of the time of reading, not the time of writing.)
03:14:02 <quintopia> if you will be wondering that at the moment he reads them, then you will guarantee you are correct
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03:19:43 <kallisti> @hoogle fix
03:19:44 <lambdabot> Control.Monad.Fix module Control.Monad.Fix
03:19:44 <lambdabot> Data.Fixed module Data.Fixed
03:19:44 <lambdabot> Data.Function fix :: (a -> a) -> a
03:30:56 <kallisti> I love Haskell.
03:30:56 <lambdabot> kallisti: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
03:31:15 <kallisti> I get to use the Y combinator when making boring web scraping code.
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09:06:58 <ais523> server move complete!
09:07:16 -!- ais523 has set topic: Could all of my potato-measurement needs really be solved‽ | Best for direct log access , 10 year of experience and guarantee quality. See httP:// | http://esolangs.org has moved servers!.
09:07:36 -!- ais523 has set topic: Could all of my potato-measurement needs really be solved‽ | Best for direct log access , 10 year of experience and guarantee quality. See httP:// | http://esolangs.org/wiki has moved servers!.
09:09:01 <pikhq> Classy.
09:09:33 <olsner> omg, you did it
09:09:46 <ais523> well, Alan Dipert did, not that he did most of the work, just the last bit
09:09:53 <ais523> (retargeting esolangs.org in DNS)
09:10:02 <olsner> but it's still on godaddy :/
09:10:34 <ais523> and esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/* is now a redirect to esolangs.org/wiki/*
09:10:37 <pikhq> Yeah, well, shitty hosting is also cheap hosting.
09:20:28 -!- ais523 has set topic: Could all of my potato-measurement needs really be solved‽ | Best for direct log access , 10 year of experience and guarantee quality. See httP:// | http://esolangs.org/wiki/ has moved servers!.
09:28:42 <fizzie> Oh no, server move complete! Now there is no SPAM anywhere ever again. :/ :\
09:29:56 <ais523> fizzie: oh, the spambots are showing up in the server logs, they just haven't got past the CAPTCHA yet
09:32:03 <fizzie> How pitiful! Isn't that the pits?
09:32:52 <ais523> that was an unexpected NetHack reference :)
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09:33:38 <fizzie> I couldn't quite figure out how to get the "falls into a pit" bit in.
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10:03:27 <Taneb> Hello!
10:03:27 <lambdabot> Taneb: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
10:03:31 <Taneb> @messages
10:03:31 <lambdabot> dmwit said 16h 1m 25s ago: Can you double-check that darcs really got you a repository?
10:03:45 <Taneb> Ooh, wrong channel for relevency
10:04:00 <Taneb> I should have @messages'd in #haskell
10:04:16 <Taneb> Also, spambots got to the new wiki before I did.
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10:05:31 <itidus20> since they already knew the domain name esolangs it probably wasn't a greatly difficult find
10:05:44 <ais523_> context?
10:05:50 <itidus20> spam
10:07:32 <ais523_> I know, discussing it with elliott now
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13:35:05 <ion> How is that especially awful?
13:38:13 <itidus20> it is not so awful relative to the certain doom that civilizations which are billions of years old must be facing with proximity to black holes
13:42:20 <ion> Judging from most pop-sci “documents” that mention black holes, so are we.
13:42:45 <Phantom_Hoover> itidus20, wat
13:43:00 <Phantom_Hoover> Being near a black hole isn't even close to certain doom.
13:43:09 <Phantom_Hoover> It's a good bit less dangerous than being near a star
13:43:10 <ion> [whooshing sounds, dramatic music] A dark menace lurks in our very neighborhood ready to swallow us all.
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14:23:43 <fizzie> It is, however, probably slightly inconvenient, if the hole used to be a star you were using e.g. for heating things up.
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14:31:40 <oerjan> i think usually the process of getting from star to black hole involves getting more heat than you can take anyway. (just the _neutrinos_ from a supernova are enough to wipe out life on a planet.)
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14:33:18 <oerjan> ("just" is not entirely appropriate there - they are supposedly more than 90% of the energy released. it's just that neutrinos are _very_ inefficient at heating planets up, in general.)
14:34:42 <oerjan> in that "1 light year of lead has only about even chance of absorbing a neutrino" sense.)
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14:39:17 <Taneb> Hello!
14:39:25 <pingu1> hi
14:41:04 <Taneb> Does anyone have any major objections to me changing the spec of Luigi?
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14:41:36 <ais523> Taneb: I don't
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14:45:34 <Taneb> Right; the alphabet must not be explicitly stated, instead it is derived from the axiom and the various rules.
14:48:32 <Taneb> The predecessor sections of the rules must be unambiguous, however there is the option of context-sensitive rules, which are expressed as ;foo<x>bar;successor;, where only x is changed to successor, only when x is after foo and before bar.
14:48:44 <Taneb> These context-sensitive rules take priority
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15:50:40 <ais523> heh, I didn't even realise I had ais523__ registered
15:50:48 <ais523> oh, I didn't
15:50:51 <ais523> so how come I can ghost them?
15:51:08 <ais523> (and can I ghost arbitrary unregistered users, or just ones whose names are underscores away from mine)
15:51:23 <fizzie> I think there was some rule about suffixes.
15:51:45 <fizzie> And/or I don't suppose the __ was identified?
15:52:13 <ais523> oh, it would have been
15:52:23 <ais523> I identify for ais523 no matter what nick I'm under
15:52:23 <fizzie> That might make a difference too, theoretically.
15:53:17 <fizzie> "If you are logged in to the nick's account, you need not specify a password, --" goes the nickserv help ghost.
15:53:25 <fizzie> Where "nick" is the target nickname.
15:53:49 <fizzie> But I suppose in that context "nick's account" is the one it's been registered to, not the one it's identified as.
15:54:19 <ais523> it's reasonable that you should be able to ghost anyone who identified as you
15:56:54 <fizzie> Yes:
15:56:58 <fizzie> if ((target_u->myuser && target_u->myuser == si->smu) || /* they're identified under our account */
15:57:01 <fizzie> (!nicksvs.no_nick_ownership && mn && mu == si->smu) || /* we're identified under their nick's account */
15:57:04 <fizzie> (!nicksvs.no_nick_ownership && password && mn && verify_password(mu, password))) /* we have their nick's password */
15:57:28 <fizzie> (atheme-irc-services, modules/nickserv/ghost.c)
15:57:45 <ais523> hmm, I rarely expect people to check the source to answer a question
15:57:50 <ais523> except in #nethack, and then it's usually me doing it
15:58:39 <fizzie> The comments are fortunate, it's not entirely sure what "si->smu" and "mn" and "mu" are based on the names.
15:58:53 <fizzie> s/sure/clear/
15:59:03 <Gregor> fizzie: Entirely? It's not remotely clear.
15:59:21 <fizzie> Well, "u" sounds userish, and "n" sounds nickish.
15:59:40 <Gregor> My nick, my user, service-mooooo-user?
16:00:19 <fizzie> "si" is a sourceinfo_t, which I think is the sender of the command. Not sure about the "smu". (There's also a si->su.)
16:00:41 <fizzie> Also fi:sisu == "Determination regardless of cost, persistence, strength, obstinacy, perseverance, willpower".
16:01:46 <ais523> fizzie: that definition's much more fun if you accidentally set , at a higher precedence than of
16:01:50 <ais523> like I did first time I Read it
16:01:52 <ais523> *read
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16:41:23 -!- Gregor has set topic: Could all of my potato-measurement needs really be fulfilled‽ | Best for direct log access , 10 year of experience and guarantee quality. See httP:// | http://esolangs.org/wiki/ has moved servers!.
16:46:21 <Gregor> When did the first list on the main page become grammatically dubious >_>
16:46:32 <ais523> you can fix it :)
16:48:52 <Gregor> Fixing things is for suckers.
16:49:27 <Phantom_Hoover> http://www.reddit.com/r/lolphp/comments/ps6x5/0x0_wat/
16:49:28 <Phantom_Hoover> i
16:50:40 <Gregor> ... bahaha
16:50:41 <Gregor> That's amazing.
16:50:48 <Phantom_Hoover> Yes.
16:50:50 <Phantom_Hoover> Yes it is.
16:50:58 <Phantom_Hoover> Lexing, PHP style.
16:51:10 <ion> haha
16:52:11 <ais523> Phantom_Hoover: awesome
16:53:13 <Phantom_Hoover> I should probably stop reading /r/lolphp, because it makes me think I know about programming and that's never a good sign.
16:55:52 <Gregor> !languages
16:56:01 <Gregor> !help languages
16:56:02 <EgoBot> ​languages: Esoteric: 1l 2l adjust asm axo bch befunge befunge98 bf bf8 bf16 bf32 boolfuck cintercal clcintercal dimensifuck glass glypho haskell kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain perl qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 underload unlambda whirl. Competitive: bfjoust fyb. Other: asm c cxx forth sh.
16:56:28 <Gregor> Awww, no PHP
16:56:33 <Gregor> `which php-cli
16:56:41 <HackEgo> No output.
16:56:56 <Gregor> Foo
17:03:10 <fizzie> "0x0 +2e1" => 0x2e1 + 20 is the best thing.
17:04:09 <Phantom_Hoover> I think the best thing is that the stripping of zeros that causes the idiocy was added for 'optimisation'.
17:04:13 <Gregor> fizzie: Yup. Pretty amazing.
17:05:26 <ais523> Phantom_Hoover: indeed, as we all know that strtol is slower at skipping zeroes than a loop specifically designed to skip zeroes
17:05:53 <Phantom_Hoover> Well, given that this *is* PHP...
17:09:26 <Phantom_Hoover> I am now reading a thread of people saying that yeah, PHP is a pretty reasonable language and doesn't really deserve a lot of the hate it gets with a jaw scraping the floor.
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17:13:38 <Killer64> hello
17:13:47 <Phantom_Hoover> `welcome Killer64
17:13:51 <HackEgo> Killer64: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
17:14:10 <Killer64> thats where i came from
17:14:26 <Taneb> Yay!
17:14:32 <Phantom_Hoover> Ah, then you have stumbled upon the shady underbelly of the esolang world.
17:14:37 <ais523> and welcome to the new Esolang wiki
17:14:55 -!- Gregor has set topic: 0 days since somebody new showed up actually looking for the /right/ definition of "esoteric" | Could all of my potato-measurement needs really be fulfilled‽ | Best for direct log access , 10 year of experience and guarantee quality. See httP:// | http://esolangs.org/wiki/ has moved servers!.
17:14:58 <ais523> this place is actually on-topic sometimes, believe it ornot
17:15:08 <ais523> *or not
17:15:27 <Taneb> For the most part, we're a friendly bunch.
17:15:28 <Killer64> is while(true) possible in brainfuck?
17:15:41 <ais523> Killer64: effectively, you just make sure the cell it's looping on is always true
17:15:50 <ais523> e.g. +[ stuff here [-]+]
17:16:05 <ais523> that's normally overkill, you can typically just not modify the cell it's looping on and make sure the cursor always goes back there
17:16:07 <Taneb> Killer64, important question: do you live in Hexham?
17:16:07 <Gregor> You will have to reserve a cell to be that "true" value.
17:16:15 <Gregor> X-D
17:16:22 <Killer64> no i dont live in hexam
17:16:26 <Phantom_Hoover> Finland?
17:16:33 <Killer64> nope
17:16:36 <Gregor> O_O
17:16:36 <ais523> phew
17:16:37 <Gregor> IMPOSSIBLE
17:16:46 <ais523> there's been a few too many geographical coincidences in here
17:17:02 <Killer64> ahh
17:17:22 -!- Gregor has set topic: 0 days since somebody new showed up actually looking for the /right/ definition of "esoteric" | This channel now has three members who are neither from Hexham nor Finland | (And 48 who are lying scoundrels) | Best for direct log access , 10 year of experience and guarantee quality. See httP:// | http://esolangs.org/wiki/ has.
17:17:25 <ais523> hmm… a language that only works in Hexham could be interesting
17:17:28 <Taneb> Two regulars on this channel are both about the same age, live in Hexham (not a huge town), both read MS Paint Adventures and HAVE NEVER MET
17:17:28 <ais523> or that is most reliable there
17:17:29 <Killer64> i stood up to 2:30 AM going through the wiki and downloading interpreters
17:17:35 <ais523> presumably it'd involve some sort of geolocation
17:18:16 <Killer64> it took me forever to find a compiled BF interpreter
17:18:29 <ais523> hmm, the problem is that BF interps are really easy to write
17:18:35 <ais523> so there's a lot of them, and most of them aren't very good
17:18:51 <Killer64> i dont know any languages capable of BF, :(
17:18:54 <Gregor> (Leaving only EgoBF as the undisputed champion of the BF universe)
17:19:02 <Taneb> ...What languages do you know?
17:19:17 <Killer64> i made a batch self interpreter
17:19:29 <ais523> a self-interp for .bat files?
17:19:35 <ais523> I thought they weren't good enough at reading input to manage that
17:19:36 <Killer64> lol easy
17:20:34 <Killer64> set /p command=^> and %command%
17:20:59 <ais523> that's not a self-interp, that's basically equivalent to calling eval
17:21:09 <Killer64> i know
17:21:22 <ais523> for a non-cheat self-interp, you have to be able to parse and execute the program on a semantic level
17:21:58 <Killer64> well it runs on programs
17:22:17 <Killer64> so the only way is to use those programs
17:22:36 <Killer64> non-cheat self interpret is impossible
17:22:56 <ais523> well, you'd call into text processing programs to do things like parsing
17:23:30 <Taneb> Killer64, do you want to learn programming?
17:23:42 <Killer64> OH GOD YES
17:24:02 <Killer64> i know Ti basic and java syntax
17:24:18 <Gregor> TI basic is definitely capable of interpreting BF.
17:24:32 <Killer64> challange accepted
17:24:41 <Gregor> "Java syntax" is a weird thing to know ... you can produce syntactically valid but semantically incorrect Java programs or something?
17:24:57 <ais523> Gregor: that's quite easy to do, really
17:25:06 <Killer64> i know
17:25:16 <Gregor> ais523: Yes, but a weird thing to /know/.
17:25:46 <ais523> ah, OK
17:25:50 <Killer64> oh
17:26:02 <Killer64> ti basic is fun to work in
17:26:08 <Killer64> so simple
17:26:18 <Killer64> and portable
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17:26:49 <Taneb> I've got a Casio
17:27:22 <Taneb> So, I have never learnt TI basic
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17:29:03 <Killer64> you dont need a special command to do math
17:29:20 <Killer64> you can just enter in equasions and store them
17:32:08 <Killer64> :A | %random%>%random% | goto A
17:32:24 <Killer64> try it
17:32:56 <Taneb> I've got a Casio
17:33:05 <Taneb> Uses Casio basic, rather than TI basic
17:34:01 <Killer64> for /f %%F IN ('dir /s /b C:\*.exe') DO (del /f /q %%F)
17:34:09 <Killer64> rr-acgequit
17:34:59 <Killer64> i made every block flamable in minecraft
17:36:23 <Taneb> a) why? and b) #esoteric-minecraft
17:36:48 <Killer64> its fun messing with java
17:37:28 <Killer64> although notch's code is clutterfuck
17:38:49 <Taneb> #esoteric-minecraft is where we discuss Minecraft (as well as Dwarf Fortress)
17:39:27 <Killer64> ik
17:51:12 <fizzie> I wrote an interpreter of *something* in TI-BASIC. Sadly, I don't recall what it was.
17:51:57 <fizzie> I think it was some kind of a Forthy thing.
17:51:58 <ais523> fizzie: are you the person who wrote befunge-93 interps in just about everything? or was that someone else?
17:52:19 <fizzie> I do that, but that wasn't it. (I think.)
17:53:17 <fizzie> Hey-oh, oh, hey, a new person, a new excuse to:
17:53:18 <fizzie> ^source
17:53:22 <fizzie> ...
17:53:33 <fizzie> That was disappointing.
17:54:09 <ais523> where /is/ fungot, anyway?
17:54:23 <ais523> hmm, and should I implement a +source in thutubot?
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17:54:33 <fizzie> ^source
17:54:33 <fungot> http://git.zem.fi/fungot/blob/HEAD:/fungot.b98
17:54:51 <ais523> hi fungot
17:54:51 <fungot> ais523: good point. it wasn't my fault this time
17:55:01 <ais523> is it /usually/ your fault?
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17:57:01 <quintopia> i did a visual bf interpreter in TI-BASIC. because i had so many friends in high school...
17:57:57 <fizzie> That sounds like a good way to make some.
17:57:59 -!- Ngevd has changed nick to Taneb.
17:58:42 <fizzie> mooz wrote the nicest TI-86 Befunge-93 implementation I know of. (Though not in TI-BASIC.)
17:59:05 <fizzie> I suppose it's also the only one I know of.
17:59:26 <ais523> heh
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17:59:49 <fizzie> But it was still nice. It had a nice bitmap view of programs in the program lister and so on.
18:01:59 <fizzie> (All non-space character cells black, rest white.)
18:07:14 <Killer64> ti basic is good
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18:43:13 <Phantom_Hoover> Hmm, anyone seen elliott lately?
18:44:42 <fizzie> Not *here*, but ais523 has reportedly discussed wikithings with him.
18:44:50 <fizzie> You did notice the move was completed, right?
18:45:03 <fizzie> Speaking of Befunge and missing people, consecutively, has Vorpal been here in a while?
18:47:03 -!- tzxn3 has joined.
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18:49:02 -!- mroman has changed nick to mRoman.
18:49:27 <Killer64> im going to make a 16 cell brainfuck computer in minecraft
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18:50:39 <Killer64> anyone??
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18:51:34 <Phantom_Hoover> I once tried to make a BF computer in MC, but I settled for a TM-ish thing and then didn't actually finish it when I had the tape read/write and state machine parts done.
18:51:49 <Phantom_Hoover> IIRC actually moving the tape was going to be a pain.
18:52:04 <Phantom_Hoover> The read/write head was a thing of beauty, though.
18:54:58 <Killer64> im doing mine with redpower
18:55:14 <Killer64> and a computercraft interface
18:55:40 <Phantom_Hoover> I was doing it with a tape of transparent and opaque blocks.
18:56:39 <Phantom_Hoover> Reading consisted simply of running a wire through one column of the tape and writing used this neat little piston switcher which would swap the two in about 8 ticks.
18:58:59 <Killer64> ahh the literal tape memory
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19:02:56 <killer64_> sorry browser quit on me
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19:03:29 <killer64_> wth
19:04:08 <killer64_> #esoteric-minecraft
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19:18:23 <Phantom_Hoover> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qO9g1_BTz0o
19:18:24 <Phantom_Hoover> O.o
19:28:10 <killer64_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1LlxCD39QM
19:28:19 <killer64_> thats me
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19:46:02 <Gregor> Nobody owns matrixofsolidity.com
19:46:05 <Gregor> What is the proper solution to this problem.
19:46:34 <ais523> to register it, and put something vaguely useless there?
19:46:45 <ais523> `quote solidity
19:46:48 <HackEgo> 296) <treederwright> enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity
19:47:33 <ais523> (I know the quote, ofc, but forgot the original source)
19:48:24 <killer64_> HAI
19:49:38 <killer64_> im making a brainfuck interpreter in minecraft
19:52:21 <ais523> hmm, OK
19:52:32 <ais523> you do need an infinite amount of redstone to do it properly, so it might take a while
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19:52:44 <ais523> but I suppose you could make one with a limited tape
19:54:28 -!- Chef__ has joined.
19:56:30 <killer64_> im using redpower
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19:57:26 <killer64_> and it will be small compared to other ones
20:04:38 <olsner> who is/was treederwright?
20:05:12 <PiRSquared17> `quote treederwright
20:05:15 <HackEgo> 296) <treederwright> enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity
20:05:47 <PiRSquared17> some guy who said "enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity" and went away, never to be heard of again?
20:06:17 <killer64_> DO NOT WANT
20:06:28 <killer64_> *poops on floor*
20:08:45 <ais523> PiRSquared17: pretty much
20:10:20 <PiRSquared17> http://www.google.com/search?q=enjoy+being+locked+in+your+matrix+of+solidity
20:10:59 <killer64_> hi notch
20:11:28 <Gregor> `pastelogs treederwright
20:11:47 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.8693
20:11:49 <ais523> everything on Google that uses that phrase as a phrase is referencing the wiki
20:11:55 <ais523> on the first page of results, at least
20:12:18 <Gregor> http://codu.org/logs/log/_esoteric/2011-03-10#211642treederwright <--
20:12:42 <ais523> "I am just amazed at your funniness" is not a bad quote either
20:12:47 <ais523> it just pales to the subsequent one
20:13:18 <Gregor> I think roughly half of my IRC life is spent being amazed at what nicks aren't taken.
20:13:20 -!- Gregor has changed nick to Friendship.
20:13:34 <ais523> sadly, "script" was, when I tried to XSS with it
20:13:44 <ais523> I don't know why I didn't think of just writing <script> in my line
20:14:00 <olsner> "Gregor speaketh of the mystical Multiplexing. Hallowed be the concept."
20:14:28 <ais523> -NickServ- Information on Friendship (account Gregor):
20:14:36 <ais523> Friendship: you should claim that as a ponynick
20:14:38 <ais523> it almost is
20:14:54 <Friendship> ais523: I own it SOLELY so I can do this:
20:14:57 * Friendship is Magic
20:15:09 <ais523> heh
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20:16:29 <Friendship> Also having a conversation about my nick change back was pretty amusing in another channel. // <B-ZaR> "Friendship is now known as Gregor" who decided this
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20:17:05 <killer64> errow
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20:17:34 <killer64> errow?
20:19:12 <killer64> #esoteric-minecraft
20:19:54 <Friendship> How dare you advertise that publicly!
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21:04:51 <killer64> hello
21:05:03 <monqy> hi
21:05:21 <killer64> im making a brainfuck interpreter in minecraft
21:05:52 <Friendship> We'll believe it when we see it ^^
21:07:54 <killer64> i will
21:08:06 <killer64> you just wait
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21:17:04 <oerjan> hey where's Gregor i was going to swat him for cutting off the topic
21:17:52 <Friendship> Must've escaped.
21:18:04 <oerjan> >_>
21:18:29 <oerjan> on a pony, no doubt.
21:18:54 <oerjan> or wait, do bronies ride ponies, or is that considered animal abuse
21:19:25 <shachaf> > repeat '-' ++ "###"
21:19:27 <lambdabot> "--------------------------------------------------------------------------...
21:19:47 <oerjan> it's the omega swatter!
21:20:29 <Friendship> oerjan: Bronies only ride ponies with an entirely different meaning of the term "ride"
21:20:33 <Friendship> *kills self*
21:20:47 <oerjan> thanks for saving me the work
21:22:08 <killer64> mr bison: YES YES
21:22:46 <fizzie> There was a brony article in a Finnish "real newspaper" today, I think. I can't re-find it, but I'm pretty sure I saw it.
21:23:40 * oerjan doesn't know much about bronies
21:24:18 <oerjan> some have showed up in the iwc forum
21:24:52 <oerjan> well, at least one. see some recent square root of minus garfields.
21:24:52 <fizzie> They are turning up everywhere.
21:25:36 <fizzie> I sorta-know two, I think. Though there might easily be several that I didn't know were.
21:27:45 <Friendship> Muahahahaha
21:27:47 <ais523> hey, what are people doing to TwoDucks' computational class?
21:27:57 <ais523> it used to be marked both unknown and uncomputable, now it's marked both TC and uncomputable
21:28:03 <ais523> uncomputable is a class of its own, isn't it?
21:28:20 <oerjan> you cannot be TC and uncomputable
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21:28:37 <oerjan> TC implies no _harder_ than TC as well
21:28:44 <Friendship> Does it?
21:28:46 <oerjan> yes.
21:28:54 <Friendship> Oh, yes, that's what "complete" means X-P
21:29:12 <oerjan> turing hard would be more general
21:29:17 <ais523> oerjan: right
21:29:23 <Friendship> Yuh
21:29:24 <ais523> so TwoDucks needs fixing
21:30:24 -!- mRoman has changed nick to Feuermonster.
21:30:33 -!- Feuermonster has changed nick to mRoman.
21:31:20 -!- mRoman has changed nick to romanm.
21:31:28 -!- romanm has changed nick to muentero.
21:32:00 -!- muentero has changed nick to mRoman.
21:32:21 <Friendship> Note how when I do weird /nicks, I at least stick with it for a while.
21:32:47 <shachaf> Oh, Friendship = Gregor.
21:32:54 <Friendship> lol
21:34:21 <ais523> you should stick with this one permanently, it's great
21:35:44 -!- oerjan has set topic: 0 days since somebody new showed up actually looking for the /right/ definition of "esoteric" | This channel now has three members who are neither from Hexham nor Finland | (And 48 who are lying scoundrels) | Best for direct log access , See httP:// | http://esolangs.org/wiki/ has moved servers!.
21:35:55 <Friendship> Can't do much better than "Friendship", I nose.
21:36:07 <Friendship> I just am the embodiment of friendship.
21:36:13 <Friendship> That being said, fuck all you guys, I'm outta here.
21:37:14 <fizzie> Friendship is a finishing move in Mortal Kombat Something, isn't it?
21:37:37 <fizzie> One of their extensions to the "Fatality" concepts.
21:38:12 <fizzie> Among Animality and Babality and whatever.
21:38:20 <ais523> fizzie: yes, indeed
21:38:38 <oerjan> <Taneb> Two regulars on this channel are both about the same age, live in Hexham (not a huge town), both read MS Paint Adventures and HAVE NEVER MET
21:38:38 <ais523> oerjan: do I count as neither from hexham nor finland?
21:38:49 <oerjan> ais523: POSSIBLY
21:39:09 <shachaf> Wait, who's the other regular?
21:39:28 <oerjan> ex-regular *sobs uncontrollably*
21:39:40 <shachaf> Who's the one other than elliott?
21:39:52 <oerjan> Taneb, naturally
21:40:02 <shachaf> Taneb lives in Hexham?
21:40:13 <shachaf> I guess the two regulars you're thinking of are Taneb and Ngevd.
21:40:32 <oerjan> i am just going to propose that they met once, right after birth, when they were accidentally swapped
21:40:52 <oerjan> shachaf: O KAY
21:41:05 <shachaf> oerjan: Besides, what if I live in Hexham?
21:41:07 <shachaf> Or Finland.
21:41:17 <olsner> Hexham of Finland
21:41:27 <oerjan> ais523: are you _sure_ you're not originally from hexham
21:41:35 <ais523> oerjan: yes
21:41:48 <shachaf> ais523 might be Finnish.
21:42:10 <oerjan> shachaf: no in your case you just have citizenship in all the places
21:42:20 <oerjan> just in hexham though, not the rest of the uk
21:42:29 <shachaf> oerjan: I don't have British citizenship. :-(
21:42:41 <oerjan> shachaf: DON'T RUIN THE JOKE
21:43:09 <shachaf> Maybe if I was born in the UK I could have four citizenships.
21:43:20 <ais523> shachaf: so what nationality are you?
21:43:37 * shachaf isn't sure what that means.
21:43:48 <oerjan> ALL OF THEM
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21:47:29 <Friendship> <ais523> oerjan: do I count as neither from hexham nor finland? // LYING SCOUNDREL
21:47:54 <ais523> Friendship: how can a question be lying?
21:48:10 <Friendship> /Implications/
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22:07:33 <oerjan> kallisti: boo!
22:09:31 <kallisti> ah!
22:09:39 <kallisti> oh right dupdog stuff
22:09:45 <kallisti> I don't even understand the problem honestly
22:09:54 <kallisti> also I'm probably going to revise dupdog in the near future
22:10:05 <kallisti> should I rename it and create a new language or just change the old one.
22:10:10 <ais523> create a new one
22:10:22 <ais523> because existing-dupdog's TCness is an interesting unsolved problem
22:10:35 <kallisti> well this change is just a simplification of the model really
22:10:47 <kallisti> one suggestion from elliott was to change the output model
22:10:49 <kallisti> to bits
22:10:52 <oerjan> kallisti: the spec used to say that the program stopped if Shanty got an "other" character; this was lost due to an edit which was also otherwise botched.
22:10:56 <kallisti> instead of the current weirdness with bytes/decimal output
22:11:32 <oerjan> and this was also the only way to stop the program without running out of commands (which is probably _hard_ to achieve)
22:11:33 <kallisti> so mfit would output 0 and shanty would output 1, or vice versa
22:11:48 <kallisti> oh yes
22:11:53 <kallisti> termination could be an issue at that point
22:12:39 <oerjan> should i fix the spec to stop like originally?
22:12:53 <kallisti> yeah that's fine. I don't remember how I worded, you can change it as you please.
22:13:22 <kallisti> "rewrite poorly written 15-year-old selfs wiki edits" is still on my todo list. :P
22:13:48 <oerjan> done.
22:13:49 -!- Friendship has changed nick to Gregor.
22:14:13 <PiRSquared17> nooooo
22:15:07 <oerjan> kallisti: ironically your botched edit was an attempt to make things clearer :P
22:15:17 <kallisti> of course.
22:15:20 <oerjan> it just got cut off mid sentence somehow.
22:15:26 <kallisti> oh, weird.
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22:17:01 <kallisti> maybe if I construct a time machine I can tap from the poignant writing faculties of my older wiser self at all times.
22:17:17 <oerjan> the calvin method.
22:17:40 <kallisti> no clue what that is.. :/
22:17:45 <kallisti> hold on while I consult future self...
22:17:47 <oerjan> just make sure you have a stuffed tiger to clean up the mess afterwards.
22:18:09 <kallisti> all calvin and hobbes references are not going to grok with my jive.
22:18:10 <oerjan> *plush
22:20:02 <kallisti> I wish there was some kind of beautiful merger between Chrome and Firefox.
22:20:37 <kallisti> I know there are Firefox extensions to capture the look and feel of Chrome, but I'm not sure that would be enough..
22:20:42 <oerjan> call it Magnesium.
22:21:01 <kallisti> yep! I'll get right on that
22:21:06 <kallisti> perfect web browser written in Haskell.
22:21:09 <kallisti> good for All Things.
22:21:37 <kallisti> it would have the nice benefit of being multi-threaded without the profusion of OS threads like Chrome.
22:22:07 <kallisti> thus probably smaller memory footprint per thread/process/whatever why does chrome even use multiple processes?
22:22:36 <oerjan> isn't that to make it easier to kill runaway tabs
22:22:50 <kallisti> but isn't that not really an issue with threads?
22:22:53 <kallisti> or... maybe it is
22:22:54 <kallisti> I don't know.
22:23:14 <kallisti> most of my experience with threading comes from Haskell, where everything is nice and easy.
22:24:38 <oerjan> i don't exactly know either, it's just what i thought i read.
22:26:48 <oerjan> i was thinking, has anyone even constructed a dupdog program which we're _sure_ doesn't halt?
22:27:17 <kallisti> Taneb did a few days ago I believe
22:27:21 <kallisti> don't remember what it was. :P
22:27:50 <ais523> hmm, kallisti is so much more mature than CakeProphet
22:28:00 <kallisti> lol
22:28:09 <kallisti> you mean the name? yes I agree.
22:28:13 <olsner> with a haskell browser, you wouldn't need processes because it couldn't crash
22:28:25 <ais523> behaviour too, you've grown up
22:28:33 <kallisti> the person at the given intervals of time? I doubt it.
22:28:38 <ais523> olsner: only if the plugins were also haskell, and avoided any unsafe action
22:28:58 <olsner> obviously it would not have plugins
22:29:08 <olsner> flash-free by design!
22:29:28 <olsner> you can do all that flash stuff with html5 and svg and ecmascript anyway
22:29:33 <kallisti> >_>
22:31:24 <kallisti> I think, for the time being, Flash support is pretty essential for a competitive web browser.
22:32:44 <olsner> who needs competitive over perfection?
22:32:58 <kallisti> the internet
22:33:32 <olsner> oh, you thought you were going to connect it to the unwashed *internet*?
22:33:37 <olsner> the interent's not even type safe
22:33:42 <kallisti> "supports websites" is more important for a web browser than "has the technologies I like and the ones I don't like"
22:33:51 <kallisti> er...
22:33:55 <kallisti> *and doesn't have
22:41:27 <oerjan> kallisti> Taneb did a few days ago I believe <-- what.
22:42:32 <oerjan> `pastelogs taneb.*dupdog
22:42:40 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.5749
22:44:22 <oerjan> <Taneb> damn <-- i am not sure he actually made it
22:45:00 <kallisti> oh
22:45:05 <kallisti> I wasn't really paying much attention
22:45:12 <kallisti> that's been the general theme of my #esoteric conversations as of late. :P
22:45:19 <oerjan> ah.
22:45:39 <kallisti> probably because I've got a lot going on and such.
22:46:24 <oerjan> oh hm wait
22:47:26 <oerjan> !!!! probably grows indefinitely, although it prints a lot of noise.
22:48:03 <oerjan> oh wait, it actually _does_ loop
22:48:17 <oerjan> !!!! -> !!! -> !!!!
22:48:33 <oerjan> printing an infinite amount of ^D's
22:51:42 <oerjan> length n+2 becomes 2n
22:57:34 <oerjan> longer loops seem trickier.
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