←2012-02-27 2012-02-28 2012-02-29→ ↑2012 ↑all
00:03:41 <elliott> mysql> select distinct right(user_email, length(user_email) - locate('@', user_email)) as domain, (select count(*) from user where user_email like concat('%@',domain)) as count from user order by count desc;
00:03:43 <elliott> this is useful
00:04:20 <elliott> brendonweston.info is spam, stcharlescountyhome.com is spam, thankyou2010.com is spam, mailnesia.com is very likely spam
00:04:59 <elliott> yep, mailnesia is spam
00:06:03 <elliott> there goes another 37 users
00:06:13 <monqy> thank you 2010
00:06:43 -!- Jafet1 has joined.
00:07:30 <elliott> oerjan: do you have 7zip
00:08:37 <oerjan> i have no idea
00:09:19 <oerjan> there are 7z and 7za on the nvg server command line
00:09:49 -!- Jafet has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
00:12:11 <elliott> yes, that'll work
00:14:17 <elliott> oerjan: sent an email
00:22:09 <ais523> elliott: meanwhile, mafiascum.net's admins are trying to work out how all sixteen backup disks managed to get zeroed at the same time, during a site failure
00:22:46 <ais523> I got all the publicly visible data I could out of my cache
00:22:58 <elliott> heh
00:24:04 <ais523> well, it's pretty worrying something like that /can/ happen
00:24:07 <ais523> it clearly isn't a coincidence
00:24:56 <elliott> 114Tom Dufftd@pixar.comTom Duff28
00:25:01 <elliott> what an awesome user record
00:26:17 <ais523> elliott: you're pasting user emails in #esoteric?
00:26:31 <ais523> I somehow doubt that's spam
00:26:32 <elliott> err, oops :)
00:26:37 <elliott> I have a feeling that email is public, though
00:27:13 <elliott> doesn't seem to be current, anyway: http://www.tomduff.com/mailto.html
00:27:48 <elliott> wow, he's the author of the prehistory page
00:28:06 <elliott> OK, no more is $wgReadOnly set to "deleting spam accounts"
00:28:13 <elliott> I'll lock the DB again once I find another pattern
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00:29:54 <ais523> wow, the history of excela is weird
00:29:57 -!- derdon has joined.
00:30:03 <ais523> loads of spambots, and the occasional "deleted spam user"
00:30:46 <elliott> yep, I'm focussing on selecting spam users from [[Excela]]'s history right now
00:30:49 <elliott> *focusing
00:30:52 <elliott> since it seems a lot of them got lost
00:31:38 <elliott> ais523: actually, "any user with only one edit, and it's to Excela" is very unlikely to be a false positive, right?
00:31:51 <ais523> interesting point
00:31:55 <elliott> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Neleai even the language creator survives (just) ;)
00:31:58 <ais523> but it's also a page quite likely to attract drive-by vandal cleanup
00:33:48 <elliott> hmm, I am really terrible at joins
00:34:14 <elliott> (show/hide) 16:49, 28 March 2008 (diff | hist) MemPanic ‎ (top) [rollback]
00:34:14 <elliott> (show/hide) 22:29, 26 March 2008 (diff | hist) N MemPanic ‎ (New page: '''memPanic''' is written by Tommaso Moro in 2008. [http://www.mempanic.altervista.org memPanic website])
00:34:15 <elliott> uh oh
00:34:45 <elliott> hmm
00:34:50 <elliott> I'm going to restore from the backup and investigate
00:36:33 <elliott> OK, it was "Doppiazeta"
00:36:45 <elliott> now to figure out why they were presumed a spammer
00:37:35 <elliott> +---------+------------+---------------------+----------------+
00:37:35 <elliott> | user_id | user_name | user_email | user_real_name |
00:37:36 <elliott> +---------+------------+---------------------+----------------+
00:37:36 <elliott> | 282 | Doppiazeta | doppiazeta@email.it | TommasoMoro |
00:37:36 <elliott> | 315 | Dopiazeta | doppiazeta@email.it | Tomamso Moro |
00:37:36 <elliott> | 317 | DoppiaZeta | doppiazeta@email.it | Tommaso Moro |
00:37:38 <elliott> +---------+------------+---------------------+----------------+
00:37:42 <elliott> ais523: the mind boggles...
00:38:13 <ais523> I thought you said you'd checked all the triplicates?
00:38:20 <ais523> also, stop posting emails publicly
00:38:24 <elliott> I did, and oops
00:38:49 <elliott> I think that one was buried in a sea of alphabetic-mush-with-real-looking-names
00:39:46 <elliott> Friendship: hey, go censor the logs or something
00:40:24 <oerjan> did the old wiki have a privacy policy?
00:40:37 <elliott> no
00:41:45 <Friendship> !glogbot_censor ^:elliott![^ ]* PRIVMSG :|.*Dop.*email\.it.*Tomamso.*Moro
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00:43:58 <ais523> Friendship: somehow I don't believe that's a real glogbot command
00:44:01 <ais523> !glogbot_ignore does this still work?
00:44:02 <EgoBot> does this still work?
00:44:23 <elliott> wow, Mark Chu-Caroll has an account on the wiki
00:44:43 <elliott> and he edited [[Mark C. Chu-Carroll]]. COI! COI!
00:45:14 <oerjan> maybe i should admit to editing [[Ørjan Johansen]]
00:45:58 <ais523> hey, I've never edited [[Alex Smith]]
00:46:32 <oerjan> also, that all the edits to [[Mark C. Chu-Carroll]] except his own are mine.
00:47:42 <monqy> one time I edited user:monqy
00:47:44 <monqy> wait no
00:47:45 <monqy> two times
00:48:09 <elliott> ais523: let me know when you're free to look for patterns in the remaining users (before I restored the backup), btw
00:48:30 <ais523> probably not tonight, I'm free but too tired
00:52:11 <elliott> ok
00:52:35 * oerjan updates the page
00:53:08 <oerjan> monqy: User:* is supposed to work that way
00:53:53 <oerjan> argh the wiki's still locked
00:55:14 <monqy> oerjan: that was the joke :(
00:55:28 <oerjan> monqy: sorry, no jokes allowed
00:55:32 <monqy> oh no
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01:01:27 <elliott> c<oerjan> argh the wiki's still locked
01:01:28 <elliott> oerjan: no it's not
01:01:38 <elliott> oh, so it is
01:01:43 <elliott> fixed
01:02:54 <elliott> oerjan: http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=Mark_C._Chu-Carroll&curid=2127&diff=30724&oldid=13111
01:02:58 <elliott> it already noted it was non-current...
01:03:02 <elliott> since 2008 :P
01:03:17 -!- Jafet has joined.
01:03:22 <oerjan> oh hm darn
01:04:42 -!- cheater_ has joined.
01:04:42 <oerjan> i think i edited an old revision :P
01:04:54 <elliott> perhaps Mark's
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01:07:11 <oerjan> elliott: i don't see myself being a sysop?
01:07:39 <elliott> oh, you actually want to be?
01:08:05 <oerjan> oh you were joking
01:08:23 <elliott> well yes. but i wanted to at the start of this anyway
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01:10:54 * oerjan looked up a norwegian geek on wikipedia and was not disappointed by the picture chosen http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Olav_Lahlum
01:12:06 <olsner> could be geekier
01:14:00 <elliott> oerjan: i went to op you but i accidentally opped olsner instead. sorry.
01:14:02 <elliott> *sysop
01:14:26 * oerjan swats EgoBot -----###
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01:27:15 <elliott> You know when you turn into a floor?
01:27:16 <elliott> That sucks.
01:27:29 <oerjan> ok
01:27:46 <elliott> It's not okay.
01:28:08 <oerjan> well it's not a common experience for me.
01:28:14 <Jafet> Don't turn into a space toilet; they suck ass
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01:36:19 <elliott> oerjan: Are you sure?
01:36:23 <elliott> Maybe you just never notice.
01:36:36 <oerjan> hm....
01:37:56 <Jafet> elliott is firmly grounded in reality
01:38:39 <elliott> Jafet: :(
01:38:58 -!- derdon has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
01:39:04 <oerjan> all locked up in his matrix of solidity
01:59:16 <elliott> oerjan: http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Sortle&curid=1270&diff=30727&oldid=30723
02:02:42 <oerjan> I WAS RIGHT *MWAHAHAHAHA*
02:03:00 <oerjan> always good to know. unless it's something awful, of course.
02:10:01 <monqy> I bet elliott does; he seems enthusiastic.
02:10:31 <elliott> monqy: thank you for volunteering!
02:10:35 <monqy> oh no
02:11:03 <elliott> monqy: THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS I'M AFRAID
02:11:24 <monqy> ohh noo
02:11:34 <elliott> monqy: you have only yourself to blame
02:11:38 <monqy> ohhh nooo
02:11:46 <elliott> ^rainbow welcome to heaven
02:11:46 <fungot> welcome to heaven
02:12:17 <oerjan> very spectrally realistic, that rainbow
02:12:32 <elliott> oerjan: YOU RUINED MONQY'S CHANCE TO RESPOND
02:12:38 <elliott> kick yourself for ruining the pattern please
02:12:50 <monqy> im too dead to respond
02:13:07 <oerjan> i cannot ruin a pattern i don't recognize
02:13:07 <monqy> that's what heaven's for right
02:13:09 <monqy> dead people
02:13:22 <elliott> oerjan: oh no / ohh noo / ohhh nooo etc.
02:13:23 <oerjan> and bats.
02:13:31 <monqy> I don't think I'm a bat
02:13:34 <oerjan> bats are of course dead mice, thus the wings
02:14:03 <elliott> rip mice
02:14:04 <oerjan> oh that pattern
02:15:14 <MDude> I've got high hopes for DocSigma, just because that's a neat sounding name.
02:15:24 <MDude> Also Gugus.
02:16:06 <elliott> looking through the user list I see :P
02:16:24 <elliott> didn't DocSigma come here once...
02:17:00 <oerjan> probably a mad scientist
02:19:26 <elliott> help.
02:19:29 <elliott> i turned into a floor again.
02:19:34 <monqy> oh no
02:19:49 <monqy> can floors delete spam users
02:19:54 <oerjan> what were you doing when it happened?
02:20:07 * oerjan analytical
02:20:46 <Sgeo> elliott, Ng Ta ka monqy update
02:20:57 <elliott> oerjan: having a premonition of what Sgeo was about to do
02:21:14 <oerjan> ic
02:21:33 <monqy> oh no
02:21:36 <monqy> why am I on there
02:21:48 <oerjan> and who are Ng, Ta and ka
02:21:56 <monqy> ngevd, taneb, kallistey?
02:22:02 <elliott> ngorricle, tapioca, kapoop
02:22:07 <monqy> oh
02:22:27 <oerjan> clearly correct, elliott is
02:26:17 <elliott> monqy: :'(
02:28:58 <elliott> monqy: :'(
02:35:01 <monqy> hi
02:36:42 <elliott> monqy: :'(
02:37:31 <elliott> `...
02:37:32 <elliott> monqy: :'(
02:37:35 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ...: not found
02:38:40 <elliott> monqy: i ts crying because of you
02:39:01 <monqy> :'(
02:40:05 <elliott> "say goodbye to the internet"
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02:51:42 <elliott> monqy: :'(
02:53:13 <elliott> cries softly. spam query cries softly.
02:53:16 <elliott> world cries softly
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03:09:56 <quintopia> it is crying because i have to upgrade my browser which means i have to reinstall all my addons and stuff which is a pain and pain is tears
03:10:18 <elliott> quintopia: What browser is reinstalling addons on upgrade necessary with?
03:11:02 <quintopia> i'm doing FF3.6.3 -> FF10.0.2 in one swell foop
03:11:19 <quintopia> and there are lots of addons which have released versions that are only functional in later versions
03:11:29 <quintopia> and are thus separate packages
03:13:07 <elliott> 3 -> 10 is only one major version.
03:13:31 <quintopia> where is the major version dividing line?
03:14:16 <elliott> They changed to their new version scheme for FF4.
03:15:05 <elliott> Since then the first number has increased 3 months, 1 month, 2 months, 1 month, 1 month after each release.
03:23:03 <quintopia> well that was less painful than expected, though i lost outright several of my addons
03:23:10 <quintopia> thankfully i dont use those very often
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05:16:58 <shachaf> elliott: You'll never guess what happened to my caps lock key *this* time.
05:17:16 <shachaf> Well, you might guess if you try enough.
05:18:16 <shachaf> But you would hate my workaround.
05:19:24 <elliott> Guess what I'm not going to do?
05:19:41 <shachaf> Guess?
05:19:42 <MDude> Is your workaround "hold the shift key"?
05:19:50 <shachaf> My workaround:
05:19:57 <shachaf> while true; do disable-capslock; sleep 0.1; done
05:20:24 <MDude> So it somehow stukc into randomly activating?
05:20:32 <shachaf> No, whenever I press it.
05:20:38 <shachaf> There is an art to the building up of suspense.
05:21:11 <MDude> There is also an art to suddenly going to sleep now.
05:21:14 -!- MDude has changed nick to MSleep.
05:21:36 <elliott> shachaf: You found the only way to decrease its battery life.
05:21:42 * shachaf wins.
05:21:58 <shachaf> Achievement unlocked: Negative battery life!
05:22:35 <elliott> http://armorgames.com/play/2893/achievement-unlocked
05:22:45 <shachaf> Played it.
05:22:57 <elliott> Did you play the sequel?
05:23:05 <shachaf> Didn't finish it.
05:23:06 * shachaf got the point.
05:23:17 <elliott> It's rewarding!
05:23:25 <shachaf> You know what's rewarding?
05:23:31 <shachaf> Figuring out why my caps lock key is so broken.
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05:31:08 * elliott recompletes Achievement Unlocked in 437 seconds.
05:31:11 <elliott> SO MUCH FUN.
05:31:16 <shachaf> 437 seconds?
05:31:23 <shachaf> Too bad you didn't unlock the "under 400 seconds" achievement.
05:32:20 <elliott> Wow, I don't remember playing the sequel.
05:32:54 <shachaf> Maybe you got bored with it.
05:32:57 <shachaf> I got bored with it.
05:33:03 <shachaf> Did you play the "1-level" game?
05:33:06 <elliott> Yes.
05:33:13 <shachaf> Did you play the "0-level" game?
05:33:15 <shachaf> (Hint: Yes.)
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05:40:38 <Sgeo> Are there good languages that compile to flash?
05:45:06 <elliott> Sgeo: Why the heck would you want to compile something to Flash?
05:45:20 <calamari> sorry you lost me when you said flash
05:45:49 <Sgeo> elliott, if I want to make Flash games..
05:46:03 <calamari> hmm.. so visual basic vs flash, which one is the winner?
05:47:49 <monqy> why would you want to make flash games
05:49:09 <calamari> so it can be on 4chan /f/?
06:03:56 <fizzie> C?-) (There's that LLVM-based "Alchemy" thing from Adobe Labs. Wonder if anyone's used for anything.)
06:04:51 <pikhq> calamari: Suicide
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06:20:06 <elliott> 22:52. Finally.
06:20:13 <elliott> fizzie: Remember Dot Action 2?
06:20:26 <elliott> Also, they compiled Doom with that thing.
06:21:00 <fizzie> Oh, Dot Action 2 was with it? Well, then.
06:21:10 <elliott> Er, no.
06:21:13 <elliott> That was just a remark.
06:21:19 <fizzie> Oh, okay.
06:21:36 <elliott> Also a question, but mostly a remark.
06:22:02 <fizzie> Apparently someone's compiled Lua's regular VM with it, to do a bit of VM-on-VM fun.
06:25:36 <elliott> Yes. So do you remember Dot Action 2? That was a game.
06:25:59 <fizzie> But of course.
06:25:59 <elliott> Hey, there's a Dot Action 3.
06:26:37 <elliott> Hmm, or is there.
06:29:16 <fizzie> [PDF] Weak Charge Quantization on Superconducting Islands
06:29:16 <fizzie> 28 Mar 2002… scales we consider are larger than δ, one may evaluate the second term in the dot's action (3) in …
06:29:19 <elliott> This stupid thing aint'nt even loading.
06:29:27 <elliott> fizzie: Does http://www.muchgames.com/play-games/dot-action-3
06:29:29 <elliott> load for you?
06:29:31 <elliott> Is it "the legit"?
06:30:38 <elliott> Aha, now it a-loadeth.
06:30:59 <elliott> It's just the 2. :(
06:31:14 <elliott> Creys & so on.
06:31:38 <fizzie> Dot Action 3: Dot Harder.
06:32:04 <elliott> "Awnings dot, game go down the road.
06:32:04 <elliott> If people have a "pocket computer", a time that might be played."
06:33:24 <fizzie> Play some "dot action" with your "pocket computer"; adding quotes can make almost anything sound dirty.
06:33:36 <elliott> That's not dot action! That's one of his other games.
06:33:39 <elliott> I forget its name, now.
06:33:44 <elliott> But it was on a list.
06:35:58 <elliott> His Twitter is good, translated: "Pikachu, ocean currents, Washiboshi"
06:36:06 <elliott> "Hopefully this will be even a little soldering"
06:38:31 <elliott> "And today I'm going to sleep again."
07:28:15 <mroman> *idea*
07:28:28 <mroman> Somebody should make a language with random bit errors :D
07:28:41 <mroman> Programmers then would have to use error correction mechanisms :)
07:31:50 <elliott> mroman: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Entropy?
07:35:56 <mroman> Somewhat like that yeah.
07:39:27 <myndzi> lol
07:39:35 <mroman> My english is too bad to recognize what this should mean
07:39:38 <mroman> elucicate?
07:39:52 <myndzi> elucidate is like... describe?
07:39:52 <mroman> elucidate?
07:39:57 <mroman> yeah.
07:40:00 <mroman> i know elucidate.
07:40:00 <myndzi> lucid
07:40:02 <myndzi> make lucid
07:40:33 <myndzi> for extra nerdiness:
07:40:40 <myndzi> come come elucidate your thoughtsSss
07:40:47 <myndzi> drunklevel too low
07:40:51 <myndzi> commmeh sjooomMe ElUhuhhuhcIdAhte yaOoour thOoouhghtZSssS
07:40:54 <myndzi> lol.
07:40:54 <calamari> drunk eliza doesn't seem to like ponies
07:41:08 <mroman> She said I'm bad at english!
07:41:16 <myndzi> i wrote an eliza bot once
07:41:21 <myndzi> hoping nerds would recognize it
07:41:23 <myndzi> but nobody did :(
07:41:28 <calamari> wow, lame
07:41:34 <myndzi> i made her latch on to people who join the channel
07:41:34 <calamari> that's a classic
07:41:34 <mroman> DRUNK ELIZA: PH* J BYOUTCH!
07:41:42 <myndzi> yeah, i know
07:41:47 <myndzi> that elucidate line is a real giveaway
07:42:01 <myndzi> then i modified it to respond to people in like #!!!!!!!!lolsex
07:42:08 <myndzi> to see if i got anything funny
07:42:09 <shachaf> It only corrupts data, not code?
07:42:10 <shachaf> No fun.
07:42:16 <myndzi> one guy talked for 95 lines getting ONLY GENERIC RESPONSES
07:44:42 <myndzi> heh, the time cube never goes away
07:44:56 <mroman> time cube?
07:45:01 * myndzi points at the topic
07:45:05 <myndzi> but have you seen http://thymecube.com/ ?!
07:45:16 <myndzi> No human or god can match
07:45:16 <myndzi> Nature's simultaneous 4 flavor
07:45:16 <myndzi> revolution in 1 Earth plant.
07:53:15 <elliott> shachaf: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/9478085/learning-type-of-argument-in-function
07:53:15 <mroman> what the...?
07:53:20 <elliott> mroman: timecube.com
07:53:44 <mroman> lol @stackoverflow
07:54:01 <mroman> That guy seriously does not understand haskell
07:54:26 <shachaf> "Haskell is strongly typed so you always know what type the parameters to functions are."
07:54:39 <mroman> I guess he wants
07:54:48 <mroman> if type(a==Int) do that else do this
07:54:58 * shachaf is ignoring the question because it overflowed the infuriatingness, and instead focusing on minor details of answers.
07:55:39 <mroman> Tell him to pass (String,String)
07:55:55 <mroman> then he can read it!
07:56:48 <mroman> Actually he should be able to get that behaviour with typeclasses and instances?
07:57:30 <fizzie> fungot: Have you ever been durnk?
07:57:30 <fungot> fizzie: just kidding.
07:57:46 <fizzie> fungot: Who's kidding?
07:57:46 <fungot> fizzie: as a newbie to understand what makes their programs agreeable to me.
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08:00:31 <elliott> Oh, people gave answers now?
08:00:38 <elliott> When I linked it there were none. That was good.
08:05:21 <mroman> Those haskell questions are terrible.
08:11:12 <elliott> Most of them are, yes.
08:11:19 <elliott> I should know.
08:11:47 <shachaf> Haskell questions are terrible because Haskell is terrible.
08:11:59 <mroman> Haskell is terrible.
08:12:02 <mroman> But not at that level.
08:12:38 <elliott> Everything is terrible.
08:17:19 <mroman> I'm grateful someone on the irc told me to learn haskell.
08:17:37 <mroman> I'd have learnt Lisp otherwise.
08:17:49 <monqy> "otherwise"?
08:18:11 <monqy> and what do you mean by lisp
08:18:17 <mroman> Common Lisp
08:18:46 <mroman> Somebody then said "fuck you. learn haskell" :D
08:20:02 <mroman> monqy: I wanted to learn a new, hopefully better language @otherwise
08:20:14 <mroman> And CLisp seemed like a nice language.
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08:25:51 <mroman> I was never happy with the programming languages I used so I always keept looking for better languages.
08:27:10 <mroman> *kept
08:27:34 <elliott> you should still learn lisp
08:29:04 <Sgeo> elliott, Common Lisp in particular?
08:29:21 <Sgeo> Is there a reason to prefer Common Lisp over, say, Scheme, besides the perhaps not so great reasons I have?
08:29:50 <Sgeo> >.>
08:33:09 <mroman> Is there a scheme compiler
08:33:12 <mroman> (to native code)
08:33:14 <mroman> ?
08:33:24 <Sgeo> Chicken Scheme, I believe
08:33:26 <Sgeo> Might be others
08:34:04 <Sgeo> I think the main reason I'm currently focused on Common Lisp rather than Scheme is FUD about libraries and portability.
08:37:46 <Sgeo> Also, I kind of want something more suited for modifying a running program.
08:37:55 <Sgeo> Which I've been told CL is better at, not sure how true that is.
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08:53:39 <elliott> wow. im a flower
09:04:51 <Sgeo> Why am I reading about Poker on one particular poker site rather than sleeping?
09:16:35 <elliott> poker
09:17:25 <Sgeo> I played poker yesterday
09:17:30 <Sgeo> For the first time in my life
09:19:40 <elliott> did you die
09:23:45 <Sgeo> I don
09:23:48 <Sgeo> I don't think so.
09:24:01 <Sgeo> There should be a site, AmIStillAlive.com
09:24:21 <Sgeo> There is such a site, apparently it's private?
09:24:49 <Sgeo> Maitoa - Trac or something
09:25:59 <elliott> what
09:27:20 <Sgeo> elliott, AmIStillAlive.com wants me (anyone who visits) to authenticate, and the server says "Maitoa - Trac"
09:27:55 <elliott> hello
09:28:23 <Sgeo> The registrant is apparently in Finlnad
09:28:25 <Sgeo> Finland
09:29:42 <elliott> go to sleep ffs
09:46:14 <fizzie> Sgeo: fi:maitoa = en:milk. (Well, it's the partitive case.)
09:47:59 <elliott> Aha, a fizzie.
09:48:02 <elliott> Ahafizzie.
09:49:37 <fizzie> Not really; I've'to do this exercise session in ten minutes or so.
09:50:04 <fizzie> Let's see if I get this laptop to do the wireless, otherwise I'm going to have some trouble remote-running the MAT LAB.
09:51:39 <elliott> fizzie: Are you exercising... your laptop?
09:52:01 <fizzie> It's not mine.
09:52:07 <fizzie> It's our group's demotop.
09:52:19 <fizzie> I barely managed to remember the password of the democcount.
09:53:10 <fizzie> Remote-X-MATLAB over a barely-there wlan is a good patience-building exercise.
09:53:37 <elliott> Sometimes I feel as if Finnish people aren't even speaking words.
09:56:11 <fizzie> Man, this thing is like the slow. But at least it works.
09:57:33 <fizzie> I'm not entirely certain why they don't put in some plug-it-in network cables in the classrooms. I think some of them have one, but most don't.
09:57:49 <fizzie> There's a couple of holes in the wall, but I'm not sure I want to go sticking my thing into strange holes.
09:57:58 <fizzie> Especially since I don't have a spare cable.
09:59:27 <elliott> Are you speaking words?
10:00:05 <fizzie> I think so.
10:00:09 <Madoka-Kaname> http://www.classicreader.com/book/2967/1/ < I'm supposed to read this for English class. . .
10:00:21 <Madoka-Kaname> Is this Scots??
10:01:53 <elliott> Uh, looks pretty English to me.
10:02:19 <elliott> Okay, then it gets a bit more Scotsy. But I think it's just regional English.
10:02:36 <elliott> Mutually intelligble and whatnot, anyway.
10:02:46 <elliott> Scots borders on being a dialect.
10:05:06 <Madoka-Kaname> Still can barely understand it...
10:05:52 <elliott> Pronouncing it might help.
10:06:11 <elliott> I suppose Americans are less acquainted with Scottish accents.
10:06:29 <elliott> Anyway, I'd still need a dictionary to get all o' them words. But it doesn't look *too* bad.
10:07:06 <Madoka-Kaname> Yeah, uh
10:07:10 <Madoka-Kaname> The sudden start of dialect kind of....
10:07:11 <Madoka-Kaname> "Wait WHAT"
10:07:42 <elliott> Yes, the English are well-accustomed to sudden onslaughts of Scots, if you know what I mean.
10:08:03 <Madoka-Kaname> Well, they live next to scotland.
10:09:09 <elliott> You could say that, yes.
10:09:20 <elliott> I wouldn't call what we do next to Scotland living.
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10:36:27 <elliott> "Afghanistan has no copyright law" whoa
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12:04:29 <elliott> http://buztech.org/read-d-programming-ebooks-lesson-1-getting-started.html
12:04:38 <elliott> "To be healthy to information in D you requirement to prototypal intend a D compiler. For this tutorial we are feat to ingest the Digital Mars D Compiler."
12:04:49 <elliott> "Every instance you poverty to information in D you crapper meet separate dprogenv.bat and it module unstoppered a bidding distinction pane with every the needed surround variables already set. If you undergo what you are doing then you crapper also ordered the distinction on your machine to allow the distinction to the folder that contains the programme and ingest it same that but using this wink enter is much easier for beginners."
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12:49:05 <oklopol> let the Power of the Continuum fill your soul with answers.
12:49:45 <elliott> done
12:50:10 <oklopol> good.
12:59:45 <elliott> it's nice
13:03:15 <elliott> @tell zzo38 yes, by the way: http://creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/legalcode.txt
13:03:16 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
13:03:16 -!- Taneb has joined.
13:03:19 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
13:03:28 <elliott> @tell zzo38 and see http://wiki.creativecommons.org/CC0_FAQ#May_I_apply_CC0_to_computer_software.3F_If_so.2C_is_there_a_recommended_implementation.3F
13:03:28 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
13:03:34 <elliott> Taneb: Phantom_Hoover: you entered within seconds of each other
13:03:43 <Taneb> Hello!
13:03:45 <Taneb> Wow
13:04:04 <Phantom_Hoover> Oh no im Taneb
13:04:17 <Taneb> Cool, I'm Phantom_Hoover!
13:04:46 <Phantom_Hoover> Contempt: a modern depiction.
13:05:18 <Phantom_Hoover> (I can't actually hold Taneb in contempt; it's like having contempt for a kitten.)
13:05:47 -!- oklopol has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
13:06:00 <Taneb> I feel happy noe
13:06:08 <Taneb> s/oe/ow/
13:09:32 -!- Taneb has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
13:09:48 -!- Taneb has joined.
13:10:29 <Taneb> Aaah, lost internet
13:11:10 <Phantom_Hoover> Did you check under the sofa?
13:11:22 <Taneb> It was in my other pocket
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13:28:33 <elliott> fizzie: Pingypongpong.
14:08:09 <fizzie> Bing bong.
14:08:33 <fizzie> There was an uncommonly interested student, had to talk to him like an hour afterwards.
14:09:02 <fizzie> A fair part of it was commiserating about how our introductionary signal-processing courses are in Finnish only, though. (He has a different background, apparently.)
14:09:50 <fizzie> There's some sort of a policy level decision that all bachelor's degree level courses are primarily in Finnish only, while all master's level courses are primarily in English only.
14:11:00 <elliott> fizzie: You has the eepveesixes, right?
14:11:53 <fizzie> Yes, to some degree.
14:12:04 <fizzie> Not here at work, certainly, we're not that advanced.
14:12:35 <elliott> Pfft, more like "jerk", am I right?
14:12:44 <elliott> (Am I?)
14:12:56 <fizzie> And the one at home is through a funnel nowadays, thanks to the faster-and-cheaper-but-worse ISP. But it still exists.
14:14:33 <fizzie> What about the sixes, though?
14:17:07 <elliott> I was wondering if esolangs.org "mostly worked" via IPv6, modulo the /etc/hosts entry that would be required since there's no AAAA record.
14:17:14 <elliott> (I saw the http://www.worldipv6launch.org/ thing and was like "hey, I can beat them to that".)
14:19:07 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, hey quick can you pastebin me your .zshrc.
14:21:21 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: I don't use zsh.
14:21:49 <fizzie> elliott: I get a connection-refused out of that one 2a01:... address you once gave, for port 80, though the host itself seems to answur.
14:23:01 <elliott> fizzie: Right, so probably nginx isn't listening on IPv6?
14:23:25 <fizzie> Sounds possible. It ping6's just fine.
14:24:30 <elliott> Lessee...
14:24:32 <fizzie> Curiously ping6 2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:9fdd gives a rather stable 52.2 ms, while ping esolangs.org gives an equally stable 56.2 ms. I guess I can deduce IPv6 is just four milliseconds faster.
14:25:10 <fizzie> (Okay, it's quite a different route thanks to the funnel.)
14:25:26 <elliott> fizzie: Try now.
14:25:39 <elliott> (The days of 30-second-loads-because-of-broken-IPv6 are in the past now, right?)
14:25:57 <fizzie> I think they should be at least in a very small minority.
14:26:24 <fizzie> Well, I got a 404 not found, but that was probably because I tried the direct address, which doesn't have the esolangs.org Host:. I'll try with the /etc/hosts on.
14:26:45 <elliott> Right, yes, the default site is just an empty thing.
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14:28:25 <fizzie> It seems to work.
14:28:43 <fizzie> I Special:Randomed a couple of times, and finally ended up in "Clue (Keymaker)".
14:29:11 <fizzie> Only borwsed via elinks so I don't know if it actually looks right.
14:29:15 <elliott> Are you sure you're accessing through IPv6? Just checking.
14:29:19 <elliott> Since, you know, /etc/hosts.
14:29:22 <fizzie> Not entirely, no.
14:29:31 <fizzie> Do you want to verify from the blogs?
14:29:37 <elliott> fizzie: You could pop in in the hosts line.
14:29:42 <elliott> So that IPv4 lookups would fail.
14:29:46 <elliott> Well, succeed.
14:29:49 <elliott> But then go wrong places.
14:30:16 <fizzie> Well, I'm now at "Sclipting/table", I'm not sure that was an improvement.
14:30:44 <fizzie> The body seems to be just "{{{1}}}" as seen by elinks.
14:30:47 <elliott> Yes, it is.
14:30:58 <elliott> With some HTML, I think, that's obviously shown on the rendered page.
14:30:59 <elliott> That definitely veesix?
14:31:22 <fizzie> Well, there's for "esolangs.org" in hosts now, so I suppose it's very likely. I guess I can tcpdump just to be sure.
14:32:00 <elliott> Can't waste THE ALAN DIPERT's time for nothing, y'know.
14:32:22 <Phantom_Hoover> <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: I don't use zsh.
14:32:35 <Phantom_Hoover> Argh, what about the one from when you did?
14:33:37 <elliott> I think that's lost to the sands of time. Or the sands of just being on another machine.
14:33:39 <fizzie> 15:31:13.216682 IP6 (hlim 248, next-header TCP (6) payload length: 1440) 2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:9fdd.80 > 2001:470:df67:4c:21d:7dff:fee4:a593.35562: Flags [.], cksum 0x4d4d (correct), seq 22571:23979, ack 396, win 960, options [nop,nop,TS val 889163587 ecr 188507229], length 1408
14:33:44 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Just use the zsh setup wizard thing.
14:33:44 <fizzie> It looks very sixy.
14:33:49 <elliott> fizzie: Yes, that looks quite 6.
14:34:03 <elliott> fizzie: Well... good to know.
14:34:34 <elliott> Thanks.
14:35:23 <fizzie> I removedated it now because otherwise I'll forget it there and then spend half an hour wondering what's wrong with esolangs.org when it v4-resolves to localhost.
14:35:36 <elliott> As if anyone needs v4-resolution in 2012.
14:35:46 <elliott> We should be on IPva billion now.
14:37:14 <elliott> fizzie: You should add that graspy diagram thing to that grasp thing or something on the wiki.
14:38:17 <fizzie> I have a half-written rewrite of the new thing in ~/grasp.txt, I'm just too self-conscious to edit it in the wiki even in my own user page. I'll git'r'done soon.
14:38:35 <fizzie> I mean, if it were *there*, people could *see* it.
14:38:42 <fizzie> Can't have any of that sort of thing.
14:39:32 <elliott> But, man, yesterday was, like, a post-server-move RECORD of NON-CHANGES!
14:39:34 <elliott> Totally slippin'.
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14:56:19 <mroman> Hu.
14:56:25 <mroman> There is a stalker mode o_O
15:09:59 <Phantom_Hoover> *Sigh*.
15:12:08 <Phantom_Hoover> I'm trying to install Morrowind under Wine; when I start the installer in the ISO, all the characters are garbled (they're all vowels with ` superscribed, if that helps); I have corefonts installed and the ISO set up as a disk drive.
15:12:33 <Phantom_Hoover> This place can't be any less helpful than #winehq, so it's worth a shot.
15:15:58 <elliott> Vowels with blah sounds like Unicode fail.
15:16:04 <elliott> Screenshot please
15:16:56 * Phantom_Hoover attempts, discovers that he doesn't actually have a screenshot utility.
15:18:58 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: scrot or such
15:19:11 <Friendship> Hell, even gimp.
15:19:47 <Phantom_Hoover> Joy, installing scrot failed because the mirror didn't have a required library.
15:20:13 <Phantom_Hoover> It's kernel.org; I thought it was supposed to be more reliable than that?
15:21:12 <Phantom_Hoover> Friendship, that'd be great if I had Gimp.
15:22:21 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: What distro?
15:22:28 <Phantom_Hoover> ...Arch.
15:22:37 <elliott> Did you "-Syu"?
15:22:47 <elliott> A library was presumably not found because you didn't update the bloody repos.
15:22:55 <elliott> (oh, and don't "-Sy" without "u")
15:23:11 <elliott> (So it tried to download an old library version which has been removed.)
15:23:23 <Phantom_Hoover> I *did* -Syu.
15:23:34 <Phantom_Hoover> It was a while ago, though.
15:23:46 <elliott> Yes, a while ago.
15:23:50 -!- quintopia has quit (*.net *.split).
15:23:52 <elliott> How while ago?
15:23:53 -!- quintopia has joined.
15:24:00 <elliott> You should basically do it before any repo operation unless you've done it in the past day.
15:24:33 <Phantom_Hoover> I like the part where it gives no indication whatsoever that it's because of outdated repos.
15:25:48 <Phantom_Hoover> http://www.reddit.com/r/dwarffortress/comments/q8sez/remind_me_why_do_we_dislike_the_elves/
15:25:51 <Phantom_Hoover> worst df player
15:25:53 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: It has absolutely no way of knowing whether it's due to outdated repos.
15:26:10 <elliott> Its records tell it that libfoo 4.5.1 are available at kernel.org; it goes to download, gets a 404, and dutifully reports on that fact.
15:26:26 <elliott> Checking whether the repos are out of date on every operation would be possible, but incur a time delay and HTTP request on every task.
15:46:27 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, http://imgur.com/hssVS
15:46:30 <Phantom_Hoover> Weird text.
15:48:14 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Yeah, that's trying to be Russian or something.
15:48:19 <elliott> I got that from the pirated WA installer.
15:48:28 <elliott> Have you tried saying yes and no?
15:49:27 <Phantom_Hoover> ISTR trying it before, and I think I still got crazy text.
15:49:36 <elliott> So?
15:49:39 <elliott> Just go through the installer.
15:49:46 <Phantom_Hoover> That's what I mean.
15:49:56 <Phantom_Hoover> Although actually it's question marks in the installer.
15:50:13 <Phantom_Hoover> Oh, right.
15:51:34 <elliott> I mean, you don't have to read the text to be able to operate the installer.
15:52:05 <Phantom_Hoover> Yeah, now it crashes.
15:52:46 * Phantom_Hoover goes through the UESP help.
15:53:49 <fizzie> $ echo 'Äëÿ óñòàîâêè èãðû' | iconv -t iso-8859-1 | iconv -f cp1251
15:53:52 <fizzie> Для устаовки игры
15:54:04 <fizzie> "For ustaovki games", says Google Translate.
15:54:11 <fizzie> (Couldn't be bothered to type in more.)
15:54:37 <fizzie> Also not sure about the thing that looked like a double-i in the second word.
15:54:49 <fizzie> Anyway, it's probably translatable like that.
15:56:03 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: ^
15:59:26 <Phantom_Hoover> Morrowind's crashing now.
16:02:42 <fizzie> Heh, I mistranslated it to Для устаовки игры требуются мрава администратмра "For ustaovki games require Mrav administratmra" and GT said "Did you mean: Для установки игры требуются права администратора" => "To install the game must have administrator privileges".
16:03:55 <fizzie> Apparently the "double-i" thing was "íî" for reals. Well, makes sense.
16:03:59 <fizzie> Okay, to catch a bus. ->
16:11:10 <Phantom_Hoover> Got another solution. This was shortly followed by discovering that it's in Russian.
16:11:53 <elliott> Everyone's rushin'.
16:12:36 <Phantom_Hoover> I can't even find the language options.
16:14:04 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: SCP-1234: The Russian Game
16:14:16 <Phantom_Hoover> The most dangerous game.
16:14:21 <elliott> Object class: Keter
16:14:47 <elliott> Special Containment Procedures: SCP-1234 is to be kept safely on Phantom_Hoover's hard drive at all times. At no point is he to attempt to play the game. Any attempt should be met with immediate termination.
16:15:10 <Phantom_Hoover> oh no
16:15:39 <elliott> Description: SCP-1234 at first appears to be an ordinary copy of the 2002 video game Morrowind. However, it is only available in Russian, a language the original Morrowind was never translated to.
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16:16:24 <elliott> After a single person undergoes 12 cumulative hours of play of SCP-1234, they will begin to utter Russian phrases (expletives, proverbs, etc.) in everyday contexts, yet will deny awareness of these occurrences.
16:16:44 <elliott> After 24 hours of play, they can understand conversational Russian, and can offer no explanation for this ability.
16:17:03 <elliott> After 48 hours of play, they will be fluent in Russian.
16:17:30 <elliott> After 72 hours of play, they prefer Russian for all communication when possible, and will often have mild difficulties understanding their native language, as might as non-native speaker.
16:17:33 <Phantom_Hoover> This sounds like a good thing elliott
16:18:13 <elliott> After 96 hours of play, they understand only basic English, and communicate exclusively in Russian or extremely fractured English. They can offer no explanation for this, yet do not find it distressing in the slightest, and express a continued compulsion and desire to play the game.
16:18:57 <elliott> After 120 hours of play, they lose the ability to comprehend and converse in English altogether, and their level of proficiency in Russian attains a very high state.
16:20:22 <elliott> After 144 hours of play, they begin to speak in an odd dialect of Russian, corresponding to no existing dialect the Foundation is aware of; they are still mutually intelligible with Russian speakers, but use odd words with unknown meaning, and develop unconventional pronunciations of existing words. This effect continues throughout 240 hours of play, by which point speakers of ordinary Russian have great difficulty communicating with the subject.
16:21:41 <elliott> After 336 hours of play, they speak an entirely unknown (but common to all test subjects so far) Slavic language, only tangentially related to Russian. The in-game text of SCP-1234, too, adjusts itself to the new language.
16:22:29 <Phantom_Hoover> What next.
16:22:46 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
16:23:58 <elliott> No further effects are experienced until 432 hours of play are accumulated; while playing the game, it will began to behave oddly, displaying glitches, random teleportation, screen blankings, unexplainable crashes, and sub-second flashes of horrific images rendered within the game's engine. The test subject does not seem to notice these events, or is simply not bothered by them. They begin to enter a trance-like state, and will not stop playing t
16:23:59 <elliott> he game. If force is used to remove them from their play, they will react crazed and violently, with force surpassing that of a normal human, often killing those attempting to remove the player. However, ordinary firearms are enough to kill the test subject at this stage.
16:26:15 <elliott> At 438 hours of play, the test subject, still in their trance, suddenly stops moving their hands and ceases play. The computer display starts to flicker wildly, producing, in quick succession, a long series of disturbing images similar to, but more intense than, the ones displayed at 432 hours of play. After 1 minute of this state passes, the computer running SCP-1234 will instantly turn off (and becomes irreparably broken), while the subject rem
16:26:15 <elliott> ains in their trance-like state, completely still, for another sixty seconds.
16:26:22 <elliott> At that time, [DATA EXPUNGED]
16:26:24 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: HAPPY NOW
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16:27:26 <Phantom_Hoover> Eh, kind of went downhill.
16:27:53 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: I'M NOT GETTING PAID HERE
16:28:40 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Anyway, what happens next is they turn into Slenderman and go on a caving adventure with Ted.
16:28:51 <Phantom_Hoover> -_-
16:31:01 <Phantom_Hoover> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNw2YcAK9Wc
16:31:02 <Phantom_Hoover> i
16:31:02 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: That rubbish was *almost* edging towards being interesting, too.
16:31:03 <elliott> I had to ruin it!
16:31:20 <elliott> The language-takeover thing is an interesting concept, at least.
16:32:17 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: I love YouTube videos that start with like half a second of manic intro.
16:32:23 <Phantom_Hoover> OK basically I have decided that the adolescent/young adult male American accent is a curse upon the world and must be destroyed.
16:33:17 <elliott> "I've been doing this all night"
16:35:50 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: So are these cats an official thing
16:35:55 <Phantom_Hoover> Yes.
16:35:57 <Phantom_Hoover> Yes they are.
16:35:59 <elliott> awesome
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16:37:39 <pikhq_> Phantom_Hoover: That would be a California accent, if it's what I think it is.
16:38:32 <pikhq_> Like, but, it's their accent?
16:39:23 <Phantom_Hoover> No, pikhq_.
16:39:42 <Phantom_Hoover> It's every accent of that description with an insufficiently small number of exceptions.
17:04:29 -!- augur has joined.
17:06:36 * Phantom_Hoover remembers that there's a surprisingly large number of Humble Bundle games which he couldn't run before.
17:11:01 -!- Taneb has joined.
17:11:07 <Taneb> Hello
17:11:53 <elliott> hi
17:12:17 <Taneb> A friend challenged me not to go on Wikipedia until the end of Lent.
17:12:28 <Taneb> I extended that voluntarily to TVTropes as well
17:12:34 <Taneb> AND IT'S SO DIFFICULT
17:12:41 <elliott> More like bent.
17:13:04 <elliott> Whoa, a cool new esolang: http://bit.ly/bTqWYW
17:16:29 -!- graue has joined.
17:18:04 <Phantom_Hoover> graue!
17:18:08 <graue> hey
17:18:15 <Phantom_Hoover> Friendship graue.
17:40:37 <Friendship> Is that you telling me that graue is here, or you assigning friendship as an adjective to graue?
17:44:06 <elliott> perhaps it's a commandment
17:44:47 <shachaf> YAY GRYAYEYYAYUUUEUE
17:45:55 <shachaf> Taneb: I challenge you to give up Lent next year.
17:49:45 <Sgeo> http://www.dreamviews.org/f17/dreamviews-hacked-hijacked-128707/
17:51:08 <shachaf> elliott: Why is my WM so buggy?
17:51:28 <elliott> shachaf: because you bought the wrong laptop!
17:51:39 <shachaf> oh.
17:51:45 <shachaf> Fix it.
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18:11:27 <Phantom_Hoover> lies like bird
18:11:28 <Phantom_Hoover> <elliott> Oh man, not one, not one, but *TWO* Loper OS posts I missed!
18:11:28 <Phantom_Hoover> <elliott> Time for ag
18:11:35 <Phantom_Hoover> Argh, effing copy and paste.
18:11:42 <Phantom_Hoover> http://munews.missouri.edu/news-releases/2012/0227-video-games-depict-religion-as-violent-problematized-mu-study-shows/
18:11:47 <Phantom_Hoover> THE TABLES HAVE TURNED
18:12:02 <elliott> Lies like a bird are the worst kind of lies.
18:12:07 <elliott> Mr. Logreader.
18:12:41 <Phantom_Hoover> It's like Lies With the Sea but with less Bowman.
18:12:56 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: heh, "portrays Knights Templar" is really their criterion?
18:13:15 <elliott> oh wow, that thing actually ends "--30--"
18:13:18 <elliott> oldschool
18:13:27 <Phantom_Hoover> Yes; also it's funny because TES religion is like 5 times more complicated than any actual religion.
18:16:23 <Phantom_Hoover> I feel like making some tweets about different kinds of bark.
18:17:31 <elliott> what
18:18:23 <Phantom_Hoover> Well, I just have this urge to get into botany.
18:18:43 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds).
18:18:45 <elliott> ah
18:18:53 -!- Vorpal has joined.
18:19:10 <Phantom_Hoover> Hmm, the fact that I suck at biology exams might get in the way of my drema.
18:19:13 <Phantom_Hoover> Also my dream.
18:20:05 <Vorpal> ow ow ow, my ADSL modem died (it just blinks an orange lamp when turning it on). Stuck on 3G now from my laptop.
18:20:32 <Phantom_Hoover> Vorpal, important question, what faction did you join in the Skyrim civil war questline.
18:20:33 <elliott> I think this marks the first thing Vorpal has said in months.
18:20:43 <elliott> truly a momentous line to break the silence
18:20:45 <Vorpal> elliott, weeks definitely.
18:20:50 <Vorpal> not sure about months
18:20:56 <Phantom_Hoover> Yes, so I must use this precious bandwidth.
18:21:41 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, I didn't in my first game. Both sides are arseholes, just in different ways. Then I joined the stormcloaks in the next game and the imperials in the game after that.
18:21:41 <elliott> Vorpal: Well, I don't think you said anything in Jan.
18:21:56 <Vorpal> elliott, right, so that is "month" not "months"
18:22:00 <Phantom_Hoover> Dammit how am I meant to hate you for that.
18:22:11 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, are you meant to?
18:22:34 <Phantom_Hoover> Vorpal, I was hoping you'd joined the Stormcloaks so I could hate you, also Sweden, even more.
18:22:54 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, but seriously both sides /are/ areseholes. There is no way you can sympathise with the Thalmor (sp?) and Ulfric Stormcloak is a racist.
18:23:25 <elliott> "areseholes" is a word in no dialect.
18:23:32 <Vorpal> whatever
18:23:37 <elliott> also "arse" is (C) (exclusively licensed to) britain, you totally can't use that
18:23:41 <Vorpal> arsehole*
18:23:52 <Vorpal> elliott, you prefer me to use american spelling?
18:24:10 <elliott> You're Swedish! I don't really prefer, I just... prohibit.
18:24:24 <Vorpal> hah
18:26:10 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott has embraced my hatred of swedes :')
18:27:03 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, recently I have been playing Oblivion though. If you compare vanilla Oblivon (no Shivering Isles, that just skews the comparison even more in favour of Oblivion) and vanilla Skyrim I feel that while there are areas that were improved in Skyrim (graphics obviously, also the left/right hand wielding is nice, and the AI is better) the quests seems to lack depth in Skryim, not that the quest
18:27:03 <Vorpal> s didn't lack that in Oblivion as well, but Skyrim is worse there.
18:27:51 <Phantom_Hoover> Yes, also did you know that Skyrim was developed for CONSOLES and has INFERIOR GRAPHICS unlike THE WITCHER "
18:27:59 <Phantom_Hoover> (" is the capital form of 2.)
18:28:25 <Vorpal> Compare the mage college quests lines in the two games for example, that one is very short in Skyrim compared to the one in Oblivion. The same is true (but to a lesser extent) with some of the other quest lines (fighter's guild vs. companions for example)
18:29:03 <Vorpal> and the individual quests aren't all that interesting in Skyrim compared to the ones in Oblivion, at least to me.
18:30:02 <Vorpal> anyway both games have terrible user interfaces for PC, they are just terrible in different ways. At least the Oblivion one doesn't randomly select a different dialogue option than the one you clicked on though.
18:30:52 -!- ais523 has joined.
18:31:17 <elliott> hi ais523
18:31:20 <ais523> hey, who changed the join message?
18:31:25 <ais523> and hi
18:31:32 <ais523> (not that I don't like the new one, I was just surprised
18:31:34 <ais523> )
18:32:18 <elliott> didn't you?
18:32:20 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, from what I heard there are expansion packs planned for Skyrim though (in plural, don't know how many though). If they are all as good as Shivering Isles, then I think the scales could tip over in favour of Skyrim.
18:32:29 <elliott> what does it say now?
18:32:44 <ais523> it wasn't me
18:32:49 <Vorpal> -ChanServ- [#esoteric] Welcome to the esoteric programming channel! Check out our sub-lime wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/
18:32:51 <ais523> and you can find out with a simple /cycle!
18:32:59 <ais523> or asking someone, I guess
18:33:01 -!- elliott has left.
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18:33:06 <elliott> ah, so I do
18:33:12 <elliott> i blame oerjan
18:33:17 <elliott> and that pun has to go
18:34:17 <Vorpal> https over 3G over bluetooth is so slow :(
18:34:26 <fizzie> It certainly wasn't me, but I did half-smile at "sub-lime" the other day.
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18:35:39 <elliott> ais523: completely esoteric MW trivia question: why do the devs not like proposals to have a way to hide the title on the Main Page?
18:35:57 <ais523> I don't know
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18:36:06 <elliott> it's almost as if you aren't an endless tome of knowledge :/
18:36:11 <elliott> i'll have to rely on fizzie instead
18:37:24 <ais523> hmm, security update in Ruby
18:37:26 <ais523> that was a little interesting
18:37:38 <Vorpal> ais523, oh?
18:38:36 <Vorpal> I guess I'll have to download that then. Ouch. (FYI: My ADSL modem died like half an hour ago, so I'm on really slow tethered 3G)
18:38:41 <ais523> DOSes due to intentional hash collisiosn
18:38:45 <ais523> *collisons
18:38:48 <Vorpal> heh
18:38:51 <ais523> and predictable random number generation
18:38:55 <elliott> ais523: that's the one all the interpreters have been fixing
18:38:56 <ais523> I remember Perl patching around that years ago
18:38:57 <Vorpal> ais523, bad hash in a hash table?
18:38:58 <elliott> the hash collision one
18:39:01 <elliott> yes, perl got it years ago
18:39:10 <elliott> but every other language took until a month or so when it was rediscovered
18:39:14 <ais523> hmm, what about Java?
18:39:24 <ais523> I'm not even sure they /can/ change String.hashCode() without breaking things
18:39:25 <elliott> I don't think anyone's ever managed to use a Hashmap
18:39:27 <elliott> so it's theoretical
18:39:27 <Vorpal> why was it rediscovered like a month ago?
18:39:42 <elliott> Vorpal: uhh... with a brain?
18:39:44 <Vorpal> elliott, I actually used it once. It was in a java course at university though.
18:39:44 <elliott> ais523: it's the hashtable impl that changes
18:39:49 <elliott> not the hashes themselves
18:39:59 <ais523> ah, hmm
18:40:04 <elliott> I think
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18:40:16 <ais523> couldn't you intentionally just get a bunch of strings with the same hashCode, and then no matter what the hashtable impl, you'd get a DOS?
18:40:35 <elliott> no, the hashtable does some kind of random salting or something
18:40:39 <elliott> I'm too tired to remember the fix
18:41:31 <elliott> who remembers when the frappr was in the chanserv welcome message?
18:41:36 <elliott> uphill both ways and so on
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18:45:15 <Phantom_Hoover> I remember asking why it was there when it didn't work waaay back.
18:46:26 <elliott> tradition
18:46:28 <elliott> purity
18:46:29 <elliott> family values
18:48:17 <ais523> elliott: I thought the usual fix was a random salt in the hash function
18:48:28 <ais523> and I remember the frappr thing
18:48:36 <ais523> I even remember when it worked :)
18:50:43 <ais523> hmm, and Yahoo! has threatened to sue Facebook over patent infringement
18:52:15 <shachaf> elliott: This laptop has the hard drive activity light *behind the lid*.
18:52:22 <shachaf> So you can't see it while actually using the computer.
18:52:50 <ais523> what do people use hard drive activity lights for nowadays anyway?
18:54:03 <Vorpal> ais523, checking if the disk is active? When you have a slow disk and the system is acting sluggish it makes it easy to check if IO is the cause
18:54:27 <ais523> hmm, that's reasonable
18:54:31 <Vorpal> I mean, I have a fairly average 5400 RPM HDD in my laptop, it has a HDD light too (just below the screen)
18:54:35 <Vorpal> and it is kind of useful
18:54:51 <ais523> the HDD light on this laptop is just below the touchpad
18:54:53 <ais523> but I hardly look at it
18:54:55 <Vorpal> much less useful with SSDs of course
18:55:12 <Vorpal> ais523, well my laptop has 10 status lamps below the screen
18:55:38 <Vorpal> wlan, bluetooth, numlock, capslock, hdd, power, battery, AC, suspended
18:55:47 <Vorpal> err 9
18:56:27 <Vorpal> I'm pretty sure the battery one is tri-colour (green, orange, red)
18:57:17 <Vorpal> ais523, another question: why are there usually status lamps at each ethernet port. It isn't all that useful and surely removing them would save battery life in a laptop
18:57:18 <ais523> there are 9 here: AC, power, battery, HDD, SD card, wlan, one that's never been on and has a signal strength icon, scroll lock, numlock
18:57:35 <ais523> and I've used a system where the ethernet status lights were incredibly useful
18:57:42 <Vorpal> ais523, oh?
18:57:51 <Vorpal> and sure it is useful sometimes for debugging, indeed
18:57:52 <ais523> as they were the only method of determining whether the system was powered on, and whether it had booted
18:57:58 <Vorpal> heh
18:58:14 <ais523> (and ssh was our only way to communicate with it, without reassembling the thing to have a serial port and using that)
18:58:29 <ion> I’m not sure LEDs are a major power drain in laptops.
18:58:30 <Vorpal> well that is usually not the case for a laptop
18:58:30 <Vorpal> ais523, some embedded system?
18:58:39 <ais523> yep
18:58:58 <Vorpal> ion, the ethernet leds are fairly bright compared to the normal status LEDs
18:59:01 <Vorpal> so hm
19:00:53 <ais523> ooh, 17 unread Usenet messages, that's a lot
19:06:28 -!- kmc has joined.
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19:22:45 <elliott> `welcome audy
19:22:52 <HackEgo> audy: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
19:23:00 <audy> elliott howdy
19:26:06 <Phantom_Hoover> Wait, the Bukkit team have *joined* Mojang.
19:26:19 <Phantom_Hoover> Like, they're actual employees now.
19:40:38 <Friendship> Well, my brain just exploded.
19:41:21 <elliott> @quote ghc explode
19:41:22 <lambdabot> ghc says: My brain just exploded.
19:42:44 <olsner> @quote ghc
19:42:44 <lambdabot> ghc says: Exotic Stmt in meta brackets
19:42:53 <kmc> @ghc
19:42:53 <lambdabot> ghc says: GHC stack-space overflow
19:44:05 <elliott> @ghc
19:44:05 <lambdabot> ghc says: Kind error
19:44:08 <elliott> @ghc
19:44:08 <lambdabot> ghc says: Malformed constructor signature
19:44:10 <elliott> @ghc
19:44:10 <lambdabot> ghc says: Unexpected type splice
19:44:10 <elliott> @ghc
19:44:10 <lambdabot> ghc says: accepting non-standard pattern guards (-fglasgow-exts to suppress this message)
19:44:10 <elliott> @ghc
19:44:11 <lambdabot> ghc says: Implicit-parameter bindings illegal in a parallel list comprehension
19:44:53 -!- monqy has joined.
19:46:12 <olsner> ghc says the darndest things
19:46:30 <elliott> @ghc darn
19:46:30 <lambdabot> No quotes match. Sorry.
19:53:54 -!- Goosey has joined.
19:56:22 <Phantom_Hoover> @ghc oh
19:56:22 <lambdabot> ghc says: Use -fallow-incoherent-instances
19:56:26 <Phantom_Hoover> @ghc no
19:56:27 <lambdabot> ghc says: No constructor has all these fields
19:56:36 <Phantom_Hoover> @ghc oh no
19:56:36 <lambdabot> No quotes match. :(
19:56:43 <Phantom_Hoover> oh no
19:57:26 <olsner> hmm, fallow is a word
19:57:38 <olsner> inactive incoherent instances?
19:58:54 <ais523> fallow is a bit more specific than inactive
19:59:10 <ais523> fallow land is land that you allowed to go wild for a year so that when you farmed it again the next year, it'd be more fertile
20:00:08 <olsner> right, so you tell ghc to fallow the incoherent instances so that you can use them more productively later?
20:03:06 <elliott> they lie in the depths
20:03:08 <elliott> waiting, lurking
20:04:21 -!- Taneb has joined.
20:07:25 <Taneb> Hello!
20:07:38 <Taneb> Writing programs in Fueue is hard...
20:10:34 <Taneb> I've written most of a Truth-machine in Fueue
20:11:02 <Taneb> I just need some way to get input and subtract 48 from it, then let it end up in PRECISELY the right place
20:12:39 <Taneb> ...I think [49:[49:(](!][48H]($+-49 would work
20:12:58 <Taneb> [49:[49:(](!][48H]($+-48 rather
20:20:44 <Taneb> [49(:[49(:](!][48H]($+-48 and I'm pretty much certain that works
20:21:21 <Taneb> @ping
20:21:21 <lambdabot> pong
20:21:22 <Taneb> fungot
20:21:23 <fungot> Taneb: help on how to think of it as " call-by-need" because unlike call-by-name, it caches the value of the current position in the global environment of the cond-it _module_, if-it is still bound in the usage environment.
20:21:48 <monqy> hi
20:21:56 <Taneb> hi
20:22:39 <elliott> hi
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20:23:27 -!- sebbu2 has joined.
20:24:51 <ais523> hi
20:24:54 <elliott> hi
20:24:58 <ion> hi
20:25:02 <Taneb> hi
20:25:09 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds).
20:25:11 <monqy> hi
20:25:16 <elliott> stop
20:25:19 <ion> stop
20:25:22 <elliott> no
20:25:23 <Taneb> hammertime
20:25:25 <monqy> no
20:25:29 <elliott> that was the worst hi outbreak in months
20:25:48 <elliott> if nobody has the strength to stop them before they go too far, humanity itself could be at risk
20:25:54 <Taneb> hi
20:25:57 <elliott> SCP-hi
20:26:44 <ais523> :t fix id
20:26:45 <lambdabot> forall a. a
20:27:15 <Taneb> :t undefined
20:27:15 <lambdabot> forall a. a
20:29:27 <ion> IIRC Monty Python had a sketch about a meeting of n people requiring n·(n−1)/2 handshakes.
20:32:24 <elliott> ion: You can say "triangular number", you know.
20:33:03 <ion> elliot: I failed to remember the function’s name at the time.
20:33:57 <elliott> Then you failed to remember my name at the critical moment, too. :(
20:34:12 <elliott> You need to http://www.downloadmoreram.com/ for your brain.
20:35:17 <ion> That was just a typo. :-)
20:35:51 <elliott> I'm going to make some typos of my own, if you know what I mean. What I mean is that I'm going to bed.
20:36:14 <ion> …in bed!
20:36:31 <ion> (You can add “in bed” to anything… in bed!)
20:38:07 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
20:40:05 <ais523> hmm, I think that doesn't actually imply that you're going to bed
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20:45:43 <oerjan> 18:33:12: <elliott> i blame oerjan
20:45:43 <oerjan> 18:33:17: <elliott> and that pun has to go
20:45:47 <oerjan> OVER MY DEAD BODY
20:46:37 <oerjan> but at least someone noticed.
20:47:41 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu.
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20:49:02 <oerjan> damn touchpad acting up
20:49:25 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: I'll try a reboot).
20:51:00 <olsner> what's the pun? was it a good pun?
20:51:12 <olsner> what is its relation to oerjan?
20:51:45 <Vorpal> olsner, /cycle and read the join message (if it is still there)
20:53:00 <olsner> cycle?
20:53:12 <Vorpal> olsner, parts and joins the channel again in most clients
20:53:31 <olsner> channels have join messages?
20:53:34 <Vorpal> olsner, if you want to know the pun that is
20:53:58 -!- olsner has left.
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20:54:34 <olsner> oh, "Check out our sub-lime wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/"
20:54:53 <olsner> not that funny :(
20:54:57 <olsner> not even that punny
20:55:13 <monqy> remove the hyphen and it'll get better
20:55:32 <olsner> what makes the wiki sublime?
20:56:06 <monqy> irrelevant
20:56:23 <Vorpal> olsner, the logo
20:57:35 <monqy> hyphenating sub-lime makes it too obvious
20:57:42 <Vorpal> hm is lasting 7 years for a consumer ADSL modem bad or good?
20:58:03 <Vorpal> (I just looked up the date when I bought my ADSL modem to check if there was still any warranty, of course there wasn
20:58:06 <Vorpal> wasn't)*
20:58:19 <mroman_> interesting @sub-lime
20:58:44 <mroman_> Is that supposed to be the "featured" languages list?
20:59:03 <mroman_> oh wait.
20:59:11 <mroman_> ok.
20:59:19 <mroman_> apparently it does that for every search string with a -
21:01:13 <Goosey> Mind if I ask a C dev question about an esoteric language I'm writing?
21:01:38 <Vorpal> sure, go ahead
21:02:43 <monqy> c dev?
21:02:47 <Goosey> Well currently, I have the entire thing written, but it's having some funny errors. The language is based on brainf***, but each cell is a stack. anyways when I try to interpret: '!\'d\'l\'r\'o\'W\0#' \>'o\'l\'l\'e\'H\[./]<[/.] it should output "Hello World!"
21:03:34 <Goosey> However, it outputs "HelloWorld!" Instead, I can make it output hello world by doubling the ' \\>, but I shouldn't have to....if I don't change cells and just do '!\'d\'l\'r\'o\'W\' \'o\'l\'l\'e\'H\[/.] it works fine
21:04:18 <Goosey> Here's the source: http://pastie.org/private/dxlpozwrkgqr3ztbfxtcgg
21:04:34 <Goosey> (Note this is my first C program) >_<
21:05:46 <Goosey> Also, so far, I've been able to reduce the source to about 500 bytes.
21:05:55 <Vorpal> night
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21:09:46 <mroman_> Goosey: Where do you put the characters on the stack?
21:10:38 <Goosey> Every time you do '!\ it pushes that character to the current cell's stack
21:11:22 <Goosey> So the first one which is broken pushes " World!" to the first cell stack, moves to the second and pushes "Hello" to it, then moves to the first and recursively prints it, where it then moves to the second and does the same.
21:11:53 <Goosey> Right now, it seems like the last character before a move cell symbol(><) needs to be pushed to the cell twice to be printed
21:13:46 <mroman_> what's stack_s for?
21:14:05 <mroman_> those are the stack pointers?
21:14:14 <Goosey> stack_s retains the size of the stack for each cell
21:14:33 <Goosey> That way, when I move to another cell, it'll start at whatever item was last pushed
21:14:40 <Goosey> That seems to be the area of the problem
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21:15:03 <mroman_> stack_s[cell] = --st_point;?
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21:15:47 <mroman_> Hm.
21:15:50 <Goosey> the st_point contains the actual value of the stack's depth
21:16:03 <Goosey> stack_s[cell] associates it with the correct cell
21:17:18 <mroman_> Isn't that redundant?
21:17:39 <Goosey> I thought so too, but when I tried removing it, the thing broke, so there is something that is making use of it
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21:18:12 <mroman_> You could just fill stack_s with n*(int)128
21:18:31 <mroman_> Now stack_s is a relative pointer from the middle of the stack 128
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21:18:43 <mroman_> and then you do st_point = 128 + stack_s[cell]
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21:19:08 <Goosey> I couldn't figure out how to initialize the entire stack
21:19:16 <mroman_> calloc?
21:19:20 <Goosey> so that was a dirty hack..
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21:19:33 <oerjan> !languages
21:19:41 <mroman_> With calloc you can get a zero initialized array
21:19:45 <oerjan> !help
21:19:45 <EgoBot> ​help: General commands: !help, !info, !bf_txtgen. See also !help languages, !help userinterps. You can get help on some commands by typing !help <command>.
21:19:50 <oerjan> !help languages
21:19:50 <EgoBot> ​languages: Esoteric: 1l 2l adjust asm axo bch befunge befunge98 bf bf8 bf16 bf32 boolfuck cintercal clcintercal dimensifuck glass glypho haskell kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain perl qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 underload unlambda whirl. Competitive: bfjoust fyb. Other: asm c cxx forth sh.
21:19:54 <Goosey> I need a 128 initialized array :(
21:20:02 <mroman_> oh
21:20:03 <mroman_> yeah
21:20:05 <mroman_> my fault :)
21:20:11 <mroman_> memset?
21:20:38 <Goosey> I think I tried that, but let me try again
21:21:18 <mroman_> You could also use structs
21:21:38 <mroman_> struct cell { int st_pointer; char[] stack; } or something like that
21:22:17 <mroman_> And why is the stack pointer 128
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21:22:25 <mroman_> when the size of the stack is 256?
21:22:42 <mroman_> If you just do pop/push combinations there is no reason to start in the middle of the stack?
21:22:43 <Goosey> mroman_, so so that you can start giving it negative values
21:22:52 <mroman_> oh. ok.
21:22:58 -!- Senya has left.
21:23:06 <Goosey> I mean, what if some guy popped before he pushed?
21:23:10 <mroman_> well
21:23:17 <mroman_> usually that'd crash a program
21:23:22 <Friendship> What kind of a sick fuck would do that anyway.
21:23:25 <mroman_> you can't pop what's not there.
21:23:29 * Friendship !
21:23:39 <Goosey> Yeah, but in mine, it'll just pop a 0;
21:23:40 <mroman_> or yeah
21:23:44 <mroman_> what punkt would do that ;)
21:23:47 <mroman_> -t
21:24:05 <Goosey> I should just rewrite the entire thing now that I'm a bit better in C
21:24:15 <Goosey> I literally wrote that while I was reading the tutorials xD
21:24:16 <mroman_> Thats like asking for data which is not present :)
21:24:42 <mroman_> "Hey! Gimme the book on top of that empty non-existing stack of books!"
21:24:50 <Goosey> :D
21:25:21 <mroman_> "Sure. No problem."
21:27:07 <Goosey> So what are structures? just a way of organizing a set of variables?
21:27:29 <mroman_> Yeah.
21:27:49 <mroman_> struct point { int x; int y }; allows you to write stuff like
21:28:00 <mroman_> struct point myPoint; point.x = 5; point.y = -1;
21:28:12 <Goosey> Neat
21:28:40 <mroman_> and you can typedef so you don't have to write struct everytime
21:28:47 <mroman_> typedef struct point { ... } point;
21:28:53 <mroman_> then you can write
21:28:57 <mroman_> point myPoint;
21:29:07 <Goosey> cNice
21:29:32 <mroman_> if you stuff function pointers into a struct you almost have OOP ;)
21:29:49 <Goosey> I don't really know what OOP is x)
21:29:57 <mroman_> Object oriented programming.
21:30:02 <mroman_> The most evil kind of programming.
21:30:05 <Goosey> I know that :P I just don't know what it is.
21:30:24 <Goosey> I've been programming in Haskell, Prolog, and Assembly for the past few years
21:30:46 <mroman_> I never really got Prolog, sadly as it is.
21:30:56 <mroman_> I do okay in Haskell.
21:31:01 <Goosey> I liked it, but it felt limiting, which is why I started learning haskell
21:31:25 <Goosey> I've been on a binge, haven't programmed in a while, so I'm trying to learn them all again
21:31:58 <Friendship> No one really knows what OOP is.
21:32:24 <Goosey> I tried C, but it felt kinda gross ;S
21:32:27 <Goosey> C++*
21:32:35 <mroman_> C++ is like C with OOP.
21:32:43 <mroman_> Which is pure evil C.
21:32:58 <mroman_> ;)
21:33:02 <Goosey> :P
21:33:02 <mroman_> But I'm a little bit
21:33:08 <mroman_> pre-something-something
21:33:23 <mroman_> prejudiced
21:33:42 <mroman_> or "biased"
21:33:52 <mroman_> Are those synonyms?
21:34:01 <mroman_> I always thought biased comes from "Biatch".
21:34:12 <mroman_> so... not... very... nice...
21:34:14 <Goosey> They're sorta synonyms...
21:34:25 <Goosey> Biased is just your point of view really.
21:35:11 <Goosey> Being biased is just having your own opinion based off personal experience or your likes/dislikes
21:36:06 <mroman_> I see.
21:36:32 <Goosey> I don't describe things well xD
21:36:46 <Goosey> The conversion from abstract to concrete isn't something I excel at.
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21:39:02 <Goosey> Well, for now I fixed it using a very shameful method >_>
21:39:51 <monqy> oh?
21:40:15 <mroman_> goto?
21:40:29 <mroman_> inline assembly?
21:40:33 <mroman_> That's not so shameful.
21:40:37 <Goosey> case '\\': tpush(); if((fpeek(file) == '>') ||(fpeek(file) == '<')) tpush();break;
21:41:10 <Goosey> It'll just push a second time if it notices the \ is followed by one of those :|
21:41:14 <mroman_> that looks like a workaround for something.
21:41:17 <mroman_> :)
21:41:41 <Goosey> It's like using duct tape to patch up a car window or something >_>
21:41:54 <mroman_> Mythbusters proved that possible \o/
21:41:54 <myndzi> |
21:41:55 <myndzi> /<
21:42:00 <Goosey> lol
21:42:21 <mroman_> as they do everything with duct tape.
21:42:30 <mroman_> Except new episodes :(
21:42:35 <Goosey> It's like patching a window with scotch tape >_>
21:42:44 <Goosey> I haven't seen myth busters in a couple years sadly :|
21:42:56 <Goosey> The last episode was probably the thermite through metal one..
21:43:13 <mroman_> They met obama in one episode
21:43:17 <mroman_> that's the last I remember.
21:43:47 <mroman_> and he insisted on retesting a myth they tested for over 3 or 4 episodes.
21:44:21 <mroman_> stupid archimedes mirror thingy ;)
21:46:10 <Goosey> Lol
21:46:17 <Goosey> I remember that episode
21:47:38 <Goosey> mroman_, Is there a quick way to get a character and convert it to it's numeric value
21:47:54 <Goosey> like toint(getchar())
21:48:41 <Goosey> may bad
21:48:46 <Goosey> I got it
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21:50:00 <oerjan> i'm pretty sure C's getchar() returns an int (so that it can give a different value for EOF)
21:50:11 <Friendship> Indeed.
21:50:38 <Goosey> Yeah, I meant to say a string to int but it seems that's what atoi does
21:50:40 <oerjan> in fact the C unlambda interpreter had a bug due to using char instead
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21:51:42 <mroman_> :)
21:51:53 <mroman_> A character is a numeric value
21:52:15 <Goosey> yeah
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21:52:21 <oerjan> which caused some minor trouble with my unlambda in unlambda interpreter when running it with itself
21:52:23 <shachaf> I am not a numeric value! I am a free character!
21:52:30 <Goosey> I just needed a way for the user to input newlines and other unprintable characters
21:52:52 <mroman_> I usually overdo it with esolangs :)
21:53:00 <mroman_> like Stlisp or Stlang
21:53:07 <mroman_> They are even more high-level than C.
21:53:09 <oerjan> (it can be "fixed" by just replacing the ?\255 in the program with something else)
21:53:16 <oerjan> iirc
21:53:23 <Goosey> Lisp is pretty similar to Haskell
21:53:29 <mroman_> No way.
21:53:32 <mroman_> Lisp is not even pure.
21:53:36 <Goosey> I know
21:53:52 <Goosey> But They are more similar than Lisp and C or any other language :P
21:53:55 <mroman_> Does Lips have Typeclasses?
21:53:57 <mroman_> *Lisp
21:54:06 <Goosey> I have no clue.
21:54:13 <mroman_> or anything
21:54:17 <mroman_> like pattern matching?
21:54:22 <Goosey> e.e
21:54:25 <monqy> what's preventing a lisp from having typeclasses
21:54:40 <mroman_> I don't know that much of lisp.
21:54:43 <Goosey> Okay, the only reason I say it's similar is because I saw that you could do anonymous functions and it had lists....
21:54:48 <Goosey> xD
21:54:52 <mroman_> But something which is not pure is no way like haskell.
21:54:58 <mroman_> Because then python would be like haskell.
21:55:04 <oerjan> Goosey: i think that's almost like those who cannot see the difference between people of other "races"
21:55:05 <mroman_> Javascript would even be more like haskell than python.
21:55:06 <monqy> mroman_: python can't do anonymous functions
21:55:11 <mroman_> monqy: Hu?
21:55:12 <mroman_> lambda?
21:55:22 <mroman_> reduce(lambda a,b:a+b,*args);
21:55:23 <monqy> lambda is different from normal functions in python
21:55:34 <mroman_> monqy: Not that much.
21:55:39 <mroman_> You can't use statements in lambda
21:55:40 <monqy> lambda can only do expressions, not sequences of statements. it's a pretty big difference
21:55:51 <mroman_> statements are not pure, so yeah.
21:55:57 <monqy> expressions aren't pure either
21:55:58 <mroman_> That's a good thing @no statements
21:56:20 <monqy> so really that's irrelevant
21:57:02 <mroman_> You can work around much of it though.
21:57:05 <oerjan> pattern matching can be implemented with lisp macros, i think
21:57:09 <mroman_> you can assign something to a variable in a lambda
21:57:20 <mroman_> (a = 5) && False or something like that works.
21:57:20 <oerjan> it's just not traditional lisp
21:57:32 <monqy> mroman_: but then you're working around it
21:57:51 <mroman_> monqy: If I had to workaround something I wouldn't use lambda
21:57:55 <mroman_> i'd use closures then
21:58:15 <mroman_> def foo(): def foobar(): ...
21:58:49 <monqy> just like how you can emulate that sort of thing in C with enough effort
21:58:58 <mroman_> True.
21:59:22 <mroman_> But we can not argue with that.
21:59:35 <mroman_> Because somehow it must be possible to emulate that sort of thing in brainfuck ;)
21:59:57 <Goosey> * is a pointer and & is the address in the pointer right?
21:59:59 <monqy> then brainfuck is similar to haskell, it seems
22:00:04 <Goosey> I always mix the 2 up
22:00:09 <mroman_> & is the adress of a variable
22:00:23 <mroman_> int a = 5; int ptr_to_a = &a;
22:00:26 <mroman_> *int*
22:00:29 <Goosey> Ah
22:01:19 <mroman_> int* i; i is a pointer; *i is the value behind the pointer to i
22:01:27 <mroman_> and &i would be a pointer to a pointer
22:01:41 <Goosey> I see
22:01:54 <mroman_> so. time for sleep.
22:01:55 <mroman_> gn8.
22:02:04 <Goosey> Night
22:02:35 <olsner> monqy: they're both turing complete? :)
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22:08:51 <oerjan> hm i have a feeling the universe is trying to keep me from meeting people today
22:09:47 <Goosey> Well now that it's working I have a little program that tests whether it's 0 or not: ^\['Y./>+\<]>-\['N./]
22:10:04 <Goosey> It'll print Y on 0 and N for everything else
22:11:48 <oerjan> <monqy> hyphenating sub-lime makes it too obvious
22:12:03 <oerjan> but but - would people notice it at all otherwise
22:12:29 <oerjan> also, y'all are too damn hard to please.
22:12:36 <olsner> it would just be nonsensical without the hyphen
22:12:45 <olsner> as I said, what's sublime about it?
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22:18:42 <monqy> my preference is to err on the side of oversubtle nonjokes, then spoil them later
22:18:46 <monqy> "bad style, bad monqy"
22:19:50 * oerjan subtly swats monqy -----###
22:22:05 <olsner> so how do I make a lisp that supports destructive updates and lexical closures and all that stuff in a language that doesn't have it?
22:22:11 <olsner> (preferrably without doing any work and/or thinking)
22:23:13 <monqy> step 1. think; step 2. do work
22:23:36 <olsner> omg that solution is 100% wrong
22:25:07 <olsner> or maybe I'll just do purely functional lisp instead
22:27:09 <olsner> otoh, it might not actually be that hard to build a heap-like thing where stack frames can live and be modified, and thread the updated heap through the whole thing
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23:19:38 * oerjan wonders why opening gvim has recently started pegging cpu to 100% for several seconds
23:20:28 <Friendship> Garbage in your vimrc?
23:20:31 <Friendship> (or gvimrc)
23:21:23 <oerjan> i think it started after i ditched avg for mse
23:21:41 <oerjan> oh hm
23:25:50 <Friendship> I suggest that the problem is probably Windows.
23:29:26 <oerjan> yes, it seems that something's fishy with opening my desktop folder, even from other places than gvim
23:30:06 <oerjan> (or whatever the proper english name is)
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