←2012-03-07 2012-03-08 2012-03-09→ ↑2012 ↑all
00:23:12 -!- calamari has quit (Quit: Leaving).
00:35:08 <Friendship> sprunge is being unfriendly >_>
00:43:25 <elliott_> Howso
00:43:41 <Friendship> 'snot posting.
00:45:18 <elliott_> Stop posting snot.
00:46:13 <Friendship> Ohhey, it started working again >_>
00:47:05 <elliott_> Told you.
00:47:12 <Friendship> Yup
01:12:14 <elliott_> dopkfwef
01:18:43 <elliott_> Why is show 0001 not returning “0001”?
01:18:43 <elliott_> I am just asking a quick simple question here. I'm trying to code poker card rankings into 4 digit binary code (exp. 2 is 0010, 7 is 0111)(ignoring the suits for now). Then decoding and print it out.
01:18:44 <elliott_> To my knowledge the best way of changing a Int into a String is by using the function show. However, using it on this situation it drops all the zeros that is in front of the 1 (exp. show 0011 returns "11", show 0001 returns "1"). How do I keep the zeros?
01:18:44 <elliott_> Thanks
01:18:52 <elliott_> Friendship: Don't you just hate it when printing an integer drops all the 0s at the start of it?
01:19:12 <shachaf> elliott_: That always happens to me!
01:19:31 <Friendship> lol
01:19:31 <shachaf> It's as if show can't distinguish The obviously-different number 0011 and eleven.
01:19:41 <elliott_> > 0011
01:19:42 <lambdabot> 11
01:19:44 <elliott_> WRONG
01:19:55 <Friendship> !c printf("%d\n", 0011); /* :) */
01:19:58 <shachaf> > 11.10
01:19:59 <lambdabot> 11.1
01:20:01 <EgoBot> 9
01:20:33 <elliott_> THAT'S EVEN MORE WRONG
01:21:01 <shachaf> It dropped the 0s. AND THE 1S. AND THEN IT INSERTED A 9.
01:21:14 <shachaf> No wonder people call C unsafe.
01:21:16 <elliott_> !c printf("9\n", 234234);
01:21:19 <EgoBot> 9
01:21:26 <elliott_> What?! C drops 2s, 3s and 4s as well?
01:21:51 <shachaf> !c printf("9\n", "elliott");
01:21:53 <Jafet> It must be using C99.
01:21:53 <EgoBot> 9
01:22:29 <Friendship> !c printf("%d\n", 03641077);
01:22:31 <EgoBot> 999999
01:22:39 <Friendship> IS THERE NO DIGIT IT WON'T DROP IN FAVOR OF 9?!
01:23:09 <elliott_> X-D
01:24:47 <shachaf> To me it seems like you are converting it into integers rather than bytes integers are real numbers, so the zeros are removed.
01:24:50 <shachaf> to keep the zeros you have to keep the data as a string or create an array of bytes, if its converted into an integer the zeros are droped.
01:25:46 <elliott_> When I got there, that answer had 1 points and the other one 0. :(
01:26:12 <shachaf> Now they both have 2.
01:30:07 <elliott_> Did you upvote the bad one? :(
01:30:24 <shachaf> No.
01:31:14 <elliott_> Are you SURE?
01:31:25 <shachaf> Um...
01:31:30 <shachaf> Which one is the bad one again?
01:31:40 <shachaf> I like arrays of bytes. Arrays of bytes make good sense.
01:31:47 <shachaf> Good ol' byte arrays. You can always trust 'em.
01:32:12 <shachaf> (I didn't upvote any of them. I haven't logged in to SO in months.))
01:34:40 <elliott_> (
01:34:46 <elliott_> (That's opening the paren you accidentally closed.)
01:35:29 <shachaf> Parentheses don't work that way.
01:35:35 <elliott_> Yes.
01:35:36 <shachaf> It will remain unbalanced forever.
01:35:36 <elliott_> They do.
01:35:38 <elliott_> No.
01:35:53 <shachaf> elliott_: Actually I was closing an unbalanced '(' that was typed by monqy last week.
01:36:00 <shachaf> Now your '(' reunbalanced things.
01:36:30 <shachaf> (Pronounced "royn-balanced".)
01:36:59 <elliott_> Ah.
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01:37:26 <shachaf> )
01:37:50 <shachaf> /nick shachaf(
01:37:55 <shachaf> 17:37 -!- shachaf( Erroneous Nickname
01:38:05 <shachaf> I AM RUBBER, YOU ARE GLUE
01:41:02 <elliott_> im glue
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01:42:17 <[imbalanced[> hi elliott_
01:42:35 <[imbalanced[> rebalance THIS ((((((
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01:43:56 -!- [imbalanced[ has changed nick to [[[[[[[[.
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01:44:59 <shachaf> elliott_: I wrote a cd command that isn't a shell builtin.
01:45:52 <elliott_> gaspeheh
01:46:34 <ion> I hereby declare that | balances any single unbalanced bracket.
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01:50:00 <elliott_> yay
01:50:01 <elliott_> |
01:52:38 <[[[[[[[[> boo
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01:53:32 <elliott_> |
01:53:45 <elliott_> ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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01:59:34 <Jafet> OCPD (Obsessive-compulsive personality disorder
02:02:18 -!- Jafet has quit (Quit: Leaving.).
02:07:53 <[[[[[[[[> elliott_: )another way to keep your parentheses balanced(
02:08:38 <ion> ( )( )
02:12:02 <monqy> )(())()())(()())(()()()()()()())()(())(())(())(()())(((())))()()()(
02:12:31 <monqy> "balance me" - that
02:15:51 <shachaf> elliott_: Can someone please explain the difference between Lists, Arrays, Vectors, Sequences without going very deep in computer science theory of data structures?
02:16:25 <shachaf> elliott_: Are there any other forms of data structures that I am missing and might be useful?
02:16:36 <elliott_> what
02:16:39 <elliott_> i
02:17:11 <shachaf> elliott_: learning my Haskell, I read a couple of articles regarding performance differences of Haskell lists and (insert your language)'s arrays.
02:17:17 <elliott_> NARQ'd
02:19:11 <shachaf> elliott_: HLEP
02:19:45 <elliott_> what
02:20:43 <Sgeo_> Does Clojure have any problems other than being on the JVM?
02:21:20 <shachaf> No. Other than this minor flaw, it's the perfect language.
02:21:43 <elliott_> its stm sucks
02:21:44 <elliott_> and jvm
02:21:46 <elliott_> and jvm
02:21:48 <elliott_> and jvm
02:21:51 <elliott_> and jvm
02:21:53 <elliott_> and jvm
02:21:55 <elliott_> and jvm
02:21:55 <elliott_> and jvm
02:21:56 <elliott_> and jvm
02:21:56 <elliott_> and jvm
02:21:56 <elliott_> and jvm
02:21:58 <elliott_> and jvm
02:21:58 <elliott_> and jvm
02:21:59 <elliott_> and jvm
02:22:01 <elliott_> and jvm
02:22:03 <elliott_> and jvm
02:22:05 <elliott_> and jvm
02:22:07 <elliott_> and jvm
02:22:09 <Sgeo_> elliott_, how is cl-stm?
02:22:09 <elliott_> and jvm
02:22:11 <elliott_> and jvm
02:22:13 <elliott_> and jvm
02:22:15 <elliott_> and jvm
02:22:18 <elliott_> and jvm
02:22:19 <elliott_> and GAK
02:22:21 <elliott_> i dont know/care
02:22:26 <elliott_> but cl doesnt have a proper type system
02:22:27 <elliott_> so
02:22:30 <elliott_> it'll have the exact same problem
02:22:31 <[[[[[[[[> jvm
02:26:24 -!- [[[[[[[[ has quit (Quit: ]]]]]]]]]).
02:29:17 * ion googles JVM GAK. http://www.gak.co.uk/en/marshall-jvm-410h/4363
02:32:05 <ion> last child ' opera van java' gak seperti gayus tambunan by. Bad'Droys.mp4 http://youtu.be/H3LRCga-WpQ
02:33:56 <elliott_> ah
02:42:01 <shachaf> kmc: By the way, I missed your call_cc post when you first posted out, but it's neat that you actually got it to work.
02:42:54 <shachaf> elliott_ would like to point out how the esolang wiki link is WRONG
02:42:58 <shachaf> But elliott_ always says things like that.
02:43:53 <kmc> esolang wiki link to what?
02:43:57 <kmc> oh, in my post
02:44:06 <kmc> yeah, it was a fun project
02:44:17 <kmc> i'm not actually sure these continuations are usable for anything but backtracking
02:44:34 <kmc> implementing backtracking with fork directly would be a good bit simpler
02:44:37 <shachaf> kmc: I'm surprised you didn't send continuation fds over UNIX sockets! :-)
02:44:42 * shachaf wonders whether that would actually work.
02:44:55 <kmc> i think i thought about that
02:45:00 <kmc> but decided it was insane
02:45:15 * shachaf imagines that kmc spends at least 15% of his time thinking about sending fds over UNIX sockets.
02:45:24 <kmc> i've only actually done it once
02:45:28 <kmc> that is, written one program that does it
02:45:48 <shachaf> I also did it once, though just to figure out how it worked.
02:45:51 <kmc> it's a pain in the ass
02:45:54 <shachaf> The API is kind of disgusting.
02:46:02 <kmc> super disgusting
02:46:19 <shachaf> I ended up with a function that was identical to http://swtch.com/usr/local/plan9/src/lib9/sendfd.c
02:46:34 <shachaf> Down to the type (almost).
02:46:53 <shachaf> And then I found that file -- would've been helpful if it'd worked the other way around.
02:47:02 <kmc> bunny!
02:47:22 <kmc> is this code supposed to run on unix or plan9 or both?
02:47:34 <shachaf> UNIX -- this is Plan 9 from User Space.
02:47:46 <shachaf> I don't think actual Plan 9 has a direct equivalent of sendfd.
02:48:08 <kmc> cool, i didn't know about Plan 9 from User Space
02:49:04 <shachaf> "plan9port" is the short name, I think.
02:52:13 <elliott_> shachaf thinks?
02:53:10 <shachaf> elliott_: I think that you're going too deep in computer science theory of data structures.
02:58:29 * elliott_ considers inflicting MediaWiki 1.19.0beta1 on Esolang.
02:59:34 <elliott_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haskell_(programming_language)#Criticism I love it when people stick awful "Criticism" sections on Wikipedia articles under the guise of the purely factual information everywhere else in the article being NPOV.
02:59:36 <elliott_> *being POV.
03:00:07 <elliott_> Apparently Simon Peyton Jones and Ben Lippmeier are Haskell critics. Did you know?
03:01:29 <ion> Hehe, indeed.
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03:02:50 <elliott_> I'm sure Harrop has used that one.
03:04:44 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
03:07:44 <shachaf> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elliott_Hird#Criticism
03:08:04 <Sgeo_> Yes, I clicked on that.
03:08:36 <shachaf> I don't thinks Sgeo_ can help clicking on any link that pops up.
03:09:54 <elliott_> \
03:09:58 <elliott_> http://goatse.ca/
03:10:14 <ion> Speaking of the channel topic, there’s a local bar named “Out of Juice”.
03:10:19 <ion> It’s Hitler’s favorite.
03:10:31 <elliott_> Ha ha ha, it's funny because "juice" sounds like "jews"!
03:10:39 <elliott_> You win the Comedy Award.
03:21:28 <elliott_> shachaf: How was 1997 15 years ago?
03:22:23 <shachaf> elliott_: I don't know.
03:22:27 <shachaf> I don't remember 1997 very well.
03:24:06 <shachaf> elliott_: Ask kmc.
03:25:26 <elliott_> No, you ask kmc.
03:25:29 <elliott_> ion ask kmc.
03:25:31 <elliott_> kmc ask ion.
03:25:34 <elliott_> lambdabot ask fungot.
03:25:35 <fungot> elliott_: darn speaking in each other's abilities!) colors can help reading a lot about scheme48 right? but you can simulate downward continuations using longjmp, but you could
03:25:38 <kmc> kmcaskion
03:26:29 <ion> 1997 was horrible.
03:26:50 <shachaf> 1997 was the year.
03:26:51 <Friendship> I have no memory of 1997. I was 11. I was probably learning C.
03:27:41 <shachaf> I have no memory of 1997. Friendship was 11. Friendship was probably learning "C".
03:28:32 <elliott_> Friendship: I see your bad taste in languages started early.
03:29:35 -!- Friendship has set topic: I sometimes fold paper. Then I put it on my head. | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ | http://esolangs.org/ has moved servers!.
03:31:13 <ion> I totally wanted to learn something else than BASIC when i was a kid but i had no chance to do that. The books i could find in the library were too advanced, i didn’t have mentor and i didn’t have the intertubes.
03:31:27 <elliott_> Friendship: Something something something something or else you'll bounce on a pogo?
03:31:49 <Friendship> elliott_: EGG-ZACTLY!
03:32:23 <elliott_> ok
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03:37:00 <elliott_> hi oerjan
03:37:08 <oerjan> hi elliott_
03:37:08 <lambdabot> oerjan: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
03:37:43 <oerjan> @messages
03:37:43 <lambdabot> elliott_ asked 7h 59m 49s ago: Does the /// program /// halt? It replaces all occurrences of the empty string in the empty string with the empty string.
03:38:11 <oerjan> elliott_: it's supposed to loop infinitely, i _think_ i finally fixed that in the interpreter
03:38:37 <elliott_> oerjan: erm i realise that empty source strings _in general_ loop forever
03:38:37 <oerjan> although that was for //.../, i'm not sure i checked ///
03:38:40 <elliott_> but i am not sure that /// is
03:38:53 <elliott_> i'm not asking what the implementations do, just what's right :P
03:38:56 <oerjan> !help
03:38:56 <EgoBot> ​help: General commands: !help, !info, !bf_txtgen. See also !help languages, !help userinterps. You can get help on some commands by typing !help <command>.
03:39:06 <oerjan> !help userinterps
03:39:06 <EgoBot> ​userinterps: Users can add interpreters written in any of the languages in !help languages. See !help addinterp, delinterp, show | !userinterps. List interpreters added with !addinterp.
03:39:13 <oerjan> !show slashes
03:39:15 <EgoBot> perl (sending via DCC)
03:39:25 <elliott_> ...I just said I don't care what the implementation does
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03:39:38 <oerjan> elliott_: well i consider infinitely looping to be right.
03:39:46 <elliott_> the reason I ask is, I rewrote the /// article (apart from the examples) and it occurred to me that /// might actually should halt (totally valid grammar).
03:39:56 <elliott_> oerjan: ok i guess.
03:40:05 <oerjan> it's not like /a/a/ doesn't loop just because source = dest
03:41:09 <elliott_> yeah, fair enough
03:41:18 <oerjan> hm i think that (?:...) was the fix so the irc interp is ok
03:41:31 <elliott_> btw i was wondering if /// could be made more elegant if substitutions weren't done "all at once"
03:41:40 <elliott_> which is to say, the program /a/b/aaa would evolve like this:
03:41:55 <elliott_> /a/b/aaa -> b/a/b/aa -> bb/a/b/a -> bbb/a/b/ -> bbb
03:41:59 <elliott_> (presumably with each b being printed along the way)
03:42:13 <elliott_> mostly because that gives a fairly obvious "rewrite" specification of it
03:42:14 <oerjan> hm
03:42:21 <elliott_> /a/b/ac -> b/a/b/c
03:42:31 <elliott_> /a/b/cd -> c/a/b/d (where a =/= c)
03:42:39 <elliott_> (ignoring escaping issues)
03:42:49 <oerjan> elliott_: some of the trouble is that there are elegant programs which return backwards in the string to substitute more.
03:42:58 <elliott_> oh, right, duh
03:43:03 <elliott_> never mind me :)
03:43:18 <elliott_> anyway, feedback on the [[:///]] changes is welcome :)
03:43:35 <elliott_> i thought it was a shame that one of the best languages on the wiki had a rather bad introduction/spec.
03:43:45 <oerjan> although an efficient interpreter probably should detect when that _cannot_ happen
03:43:58 <oerjan> so as to not backtrack unnecessarily
03:44:43 <oerjan> ok, feedback on http://oerjan.nvg.org/esoteric/qdeql/BFQdeql.hs probably also welcome
03:45:04 <elliott_> oh, i noticed you finished it but forgot to check out the program
03:45:48 <elliott_> heh, I like how you handle the newlines formatting-wise in initCells
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03:46:12 <elliott_> put $ st { newLine = False }
03:46:17 <elliott_> oerjan: this is technically a redundant ($) btw
03:46:21 <elliott_> even if it looks really confusing without :(
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03:47:07 <elliott_> looks good to me, although naturally i don't understand the translation
03:47:08 <oerjan> heh
03:47:33 <elliott_> i would probably put spaces around one-line qq'd strings since they're so symbol-y, but that's just me. (and does it strip trailing whitespace?)
03:47:50 <elliott_> also I'd put top-level signatures on everything, but, well, that's me. (I think -Wall complains if you don't, though)
03:47:51 <oerjan> btw i think one of those elegant /// programs is the unary to decimal converter used in the deadfish interpreter
03:48:13 <oerjan> elliott_: i didn't bother doing that for the string constants
03:48:50 <oerjan> elliott_: [s| only strips one initial newline
03:48:57 <elliott_> foo, bar, baz :: String would probably make it less ugly. but yes, it's hardly high priority
03:49:06 <elliott_> oerjan: well the documentation says it strips common initial whitespace
03:49:10 <elliott_> so [s| foo|] should == "foo"
03:49:13 <elliott_> at least
03:49:27 <oerjan> hm i'd forgotten you could have comma-separated type annotations outside records
03:49:47 <oerjan> elliott_: um that's not how i interpreted it
03:50:05 <elliott_> oh hm
03:50:11 <elliott_> I must be thinking of one of the other packages I reviewed.
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03:58:41 <oerjan> ok i added type sigs
04:01:41 <elliott_> oh, I didn't realise ais wrote the 99bob in ///
04:01:53 <elliott_> even if it is a cheat version.
04:02:23 <oerjan> well it was from before anyone knew if you could _make_ a non-cheat version
04:03:30 <elliott_> indeed
04:03:45 <oerjan> i assume that the stripping of one newline in string-qq is just so you can get the first line aligned with the others
04:04:02 * elliott_ wonders if ///-without-looping is TC
04:04:02 <oerjan> which is what i used it for
04:04:07 <elliott_> that is, it just replaces the first occurrence and stops
04:04:24 <elliott_> so the only way to get, e.g. an infinite loop would be to replicate a replacement forwards
04:04:40 <elliott_> do the standard replication techniques require multiple substitutions in one go?
04:04:52 <oerjan> sounds hard since quining requires you to make _two_ copies of stuff
04:05:08 <elliott_> right, so it dose
04:05:10 <elliott_> *does
04:05:38 <oerjan> in fact i think that trivial makes the program shorter at each step
04:05:41 <oerjan> *ly
04:05:58 <elliott_> hmm... right, agreed
04:06:09 <elliott_> what if it just does two iterations of the loop :D
04:06:21 <oerjan> MORE PLAUSIBLE
04:06:22 <elliott_> i.e. "replace first (if any), replace first (if any)"
04:06:42 <oerjan> but then the question become how you can re-escape anything
04:06:45 <oerjan> *s
04:07:28 <elliott_> keep the programs small enough, unroll the de-escaping loop :P
04:07:44 <elliott_> hm except i guess you have to de-escape that loop itself
04:07:46 <elliott_> *re *re
04:08:01 <oerjan> TRICKY
04:09:16 <elliott_> out of curiosity, does the standard technique rely on /abc/.../ not replacing a\bc?
04:09:31 <elliott_> i.e. what if backslash escapes were "interpreted" properly by the substitution process
04:09:43 <oerjan> yes
04:10:09 <oerjan> that's in fact the only way it distinguishes what to do with the two copies
04:10:22 <elliott_> right
04:11:16 <oerjan> the _original_ counter loop probably could be done without it, but that was rather awful
04:11:37 <elliott_> zzo38: did you invent REGXY? the wiki claims you do, but the person who added that claim gave no source, and while http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?RegXy links to your site, it only contains an implementation and some programs
04:11:38 <oerjan> in comparison
04:12:23 * oerjan wonders if zzo38's client does nick pinging
04:12:26 <elliott_> oh, you did.
04:15:09 <oerjan> oh actually the original counter loop depends on duplicating the reescaping code, which means if you ignore \ differences _they_ will clobber each other.
04:15:54 <oerjan> because that's also the only way two identical substitutions can avoid interfering
04:20:33 <elliott_> seems like removing anything from /// inevitably makes it sub-TC :P
04:21:28 <oerjan> fancy that
04:23:03 <zzo38> elliott_: I don't remember
04:23:23 <zzo38> oerjan: What does nick pinging mean?
04:23:46 <oerjan> zzo38: it means that your client notifies you when your nick is mentioned
04:24:40 <zzo38> By default it doesn't do that, but there is /F command which can be used to highlight, ignore, or beep on, any sender/text/commands specified.
04:24:49 <oerjan> hm or maybe it actually denotes when others try to make it do that. anyway it's a common feature in clients.
04:25:39 <zzo38> The /F command is used for that purpose and other purposes.
04:26:01 <zzo38> Although you would probably put it in a macro if wanted to use it all the time in certain ways commonly.
04:29:06 <oerjan> i don't actually have a beep myself, i generally have sound off, but i think i once tried to get visual bell working but i couldn't get it right
04:29:43 <oerjan> there's red highlighting though
04:42:42 <elliott_> oerjan: did you ever look at the [[:///]] changes? :P
04:43:06 <oerjan> i haven't finished browsing the irc logs yet...
04:43:36 <elliott_> oh, they're pretty big today, aren't they
04:44:12 <oerjan> yes
05:06:58 <oerjan> <Vorpal> <elliott_> Doesn't yours? <-- hm, exploding is more common than imploding in the Nordic countries. (Just ask oerjan)
05:07:05 <oerjan> it's because of the cold.
05:12:38 <oerjan> <Jafet> OCPD (Obsessive-compulsive personality disorder
05:12:42 <oerjan> CDOP
05:12:44 <oerjan> )
05:13:33 <oerjan> that all reminds me of the parenthesis matching monoid i thought of while making the unlambda palindromifying algorithm
05:14:18 <elliott_> what monoid is that?
05:15:03 <oerjan> you just have words of ( and ), but remove all () combinations, recursively
05:15:37 <oerjan> which turns every word into the form ))))))...)(((((....(( with all )'s before all ('s
05:16:31 <oerjan> the unlambda version uses ` for ( and any other function for ), and there was some exceptional case as well
05:17:15 <oerjan> *-other
05:18:50 <oerjan> oh right you cannot allow appending `x. it was similar but eerily different.
05:20:08 <oerjan> anyway the thing about this monoid is you can do parenthesis matching on any substring, and find out what you need on each end to rebalance.
05:20:47 <oerjan> and of course calculate the balance of a concatenation from the balance of each argument
05:24:58 <oerjan> i thought this might be useful for incremental editors
05:27:48 * elliott_ is not sure what the monoid actually is.
05:29:49 <oerjan> (Nat, Nat)
05:30:05 <elliott_> lparencount, rparencount?
05:30:15 <oerjan> other way around
05:30:23 <elliott_> ah.
05:30:34 <oerjan> @src Monoid
05:30:34 <lambdabot> class Monoid a where
05:30:34 <lambdabot> mempty :: a
05:30:34 <lambdabot> mappend :: a -> a -> a
05:30:34 <lambdabot> mconcat :: [a] -> a
05:30:41 <elliott_> hm except not quite, because ")(" shouldn't map to (1,1) should it?
05:30:47 <elliott_> or else you're not really ensuring _balance_
05:30:50 <oerjan> yes it should
05:30:53 <elliott_> oh
05:31:00 <oerjan> the Monoid measures how _imbalanced_ it is
05:31:06 <elliott_> ah
05:31:12 <elliott_> (btw, this sounds like a Reducer)
05:31:54 <elliott_> instance Reducer String ParenCount where unit str = ParenCount (m, n) where ...
05:32:57 <oerjan> mempty = (0,0); (rx,lx) `mappend` (ry,ly) = (rx+max 0 (-b),ly+max 0 b) where b = lx-ry
05:33:00 <oerjan> i think
05:34:09 <elliott_> ok
05:34:21 <elliott_> it seems like you'd always want to use it Reducer-style, i.e. I'm not sure when mempty would be useful
05:34:31 <oerjan> what's Reducer
05:35:17 <elliott_> http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/reducers/0.1.8/doc/html/Data-Semigroup-Reducer.html (only unit matters)
05:35:20 <elliott_> it's the f in (foldMap f), basically
05:35:27 <elliott_> except you only need Semigroup, since mempty is never used
05:35:40 <elliott_> just any mapping of a type to a semigroup
05:35:49 <elliott_> in this case, from strings to this type
05:35:57 <elliott_> or Chars, I guess
05:36:19 <elliott_> presumably you could then use foldReduce to check whether a string has balanced parens
05:36:21 <oerjan> elliott_: um mempty is the natural value for ""
05:36:35 <elliott_> ... i mean that mempty is never used directly.
05:36:44 <oerjan> or for anything containing no ( or )'s
05:36:57 <elliott_> oh hm right
05:37:00 <elliott_> yes, you use the Monoid part there
05:37:14 <elliott_> as reflected in "foldReduce :: (Foldable f, Monoid m, Reducer e m) => f e -> m"'s type
05:42:00 * elliott_ installs reducers to test this
05:43:17 <elliott_> @check \x y -> (x + max 0 (-y)) == (x - min 0 y)
05:43:18 <lambdabot> "OK, passed 500 tests."
05:45:39 <elliott_> oerjan: yay it seems to work
05:45:55 <elliott_> http://sprunge.us/GgRY
05:50:16 <elliott_> oh there are some places I could use mempty I missed there
05:51:04 -!- MDude has changed nick to MSleep.
05:51:07 <oerjan> yep
05:51:59 <elliott_> oerjan: in conclusion, since your monoid fits perfectly into a map-reduce pattern, I'm forced to deliver the terrible news that it's web scale.
05:52:25 <elliott_> councelling is available in the pure mathematics department.
05:52:52 <elliott_> oh, wait, you're not meant to use foldReduce
05:52:57 <elliott_> you have to use reduce to get the web scale
05:53:37 <elliott_> http://sprunge.us/aYJO
05:53:39 <elliott_> ok, now it's web scale.
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06:15:35 <oerjan> elliott_: yay!
06:16:33 <elliott_> oerjan is now 0% of the way through the infinite log we hooked up to a Markov chain generator.
06:17:11 <oerjan> no, i just finished the logs and Friendship's answers, and have loaded esolang
06:18:49 <elliott_> ahem
06:18:51 <elliott_> O KAY
06:19:22 <elliott_> <_ttoille> elliott_, you're British right?
06:19:22 -!- elliott_ has left ("Leaving").
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06:19:28 <elliott_> Who is that. :(
06:20:29 <oerjan> _ttoille the anti-brit, your nemesis
06:21:18 <elliott_> <elliott_> What's with the nick?
06:21:18 <elliott_> <_ttoille> I am not sure.
06:21:18 <elliott_> <_ttoille> Does it boter you?
06:21:22 * elliott_ wonders how sincere that question is.
06:21:29 <elliott_> * _ttoille is now known as H_ekiM
06:21:32 <elliott_> Apparently more than not at all.
06:26:37 <elliott_> http://meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/124968/how-to-solve-this-equation-using-newton-raphson-method-in-matlab
06:26:40 <elliott_> Click it while it's still around!!!
06:29:16 <elliott_> <H_ekiM> I want to be named Elliott too.
06:29:31 <Sgeo_> I have decided to worship SBCL over other Common Lisp implementations.
06:29:37 <Sgeo_> http://common-lisp.net/project/closer/repos/closer-mop/features.txt should explain why.
06:30:02 <elliott_> I thought my day couldn't get any better.
06:30:15 <elliott_> First I have some crazed IRC stalker, and now Sgeo_ has chosen SBCL as his one true god.
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06:32:06 <elliott_> hi ais523
06:32:15 <ais523> hi elliott_
06:32:23 <ais523> and what are you doing up at 6:30am?
06:33:24 <elliott_> the same thing you're doing
06:33:38 <elliott_> it's more "still up" than "up"
06:33:53 <elliott_> i was even tired an hour ago. my life is a series of excellent decisions made by an idiot
06:34:31 <ais523> elliott_: I doubt I'm doing the same thing as you
06:34:42 <ais523> note that I /joined/ at 6:30am, rather than being here all night as usual
06:34:44 <ais523> also, I'm at work
06:35:11 <elliott_> ais523: you're typing on IRC
06:35:13 <elliott_> close enough
06:35:17 <oerjan> elliott_: ok i fixed a couple things in [:///]
06:36:39 <elliott_> oerjan: thanks (*[[:///]])
06:36:55 <elliott_> i hope it's better than the previous text :P
06:37:34 <oerjan> well the previous was a little too succinct, although i'm wondering if the current is a little too verbose
06:37:53 <oerjan> it feels so imperative
06:38:03 <ais523> meanwhile, has anyone thought about Underload with /just/ () and lambdas?
06:38:12 <oerjan> lambdas?
06:38:49 <elliott_> oerjan: well i think you will find the previous text was imperative too
06:39:10 <elliott_> see http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=///&oldid=30182
06:39:33 <elliott_> ofc more importantly it's wildly imprecise :P
06:39:49 <oerjan> <elliott_> [...] my life is a series of excellent decisions made by an idiot <-- can i borrow that tagline
06:39:55 <Sgeo_> The Closer2MOP documentation LIED to me
06:39:58 * Sgeo_ is peeved
06:40:36 <elliott_> oerjan: yes. there may be royalties.
06:40:46 <oerjan> elliott_: it's the description of how to read source and destination that feels that way
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06:41:22 <elliott_> yeah, it's a little ugly. otoh I can't think of any decent way to describe it better without the awkward imprecise parenthical escape-describing of the original.
06:41:51 <elliott_> in the end i went for precision over immediate clarity. perhaps the best thing would be a note that it's just a string up to / with escapes next to the verbosity
06:43:06 <ais523> oerjan: you can desugar lambdas into Underload code, right?
06:43:18 <oerjan> ais523: yes, i wrote a section on that
06:43:30 <ais523> so, you can express everything but () in terms of lambdas
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06:43:48 <ais523> actually, I also noticed independently that lambdas could be desugared into Underload
06:44:03 <ais523> but my syntax is x/(y/((x)(y)))
06:44:24 <ais523> making it postfix is more consistent, but harder to read ;)
06:44:34 <oerjan> ais523: actually () = [-] in my lambda syntax
06:44:50 <ais523> yep, I know
06:45:04 <ais523> I guess most consistent of all would be (code)(variable)command
06:45:08 <ais523> but that would be almost completely unreadable
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06:46:21 <oerjan> ais523: oh wait no, [-] =
06:46:33 <oerjan> the surrounding parens aren't included
06:46:40 <ais523> not in my case either
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06:46:47 <ais523> i.e. x/(x) is equivalent to ^
06:46:53 <ais523> (and (x/(x)) is equivalent to (^))
06:49:13 <ais523> the null string would be x/((x))
06:51:21 <elliott_> pls at least bracket the x/y somehow
06:51:22 <elliott_> [x/y] say
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07:06:45 <elliott_> shachaf: Did you know there's a conspiracy to keep Hackage2 from being deployed based on rationalisations?
07:07:06 <shachaf> elliott_: No.
07:09:36 <shachaf> elliott_: I still don't.
07:10:19 <elliott_> Do you know now?
07:10:30 <shachaf> Let me check.
07:10:55 <shachaf> There is a vacuum of knowledge in my head in the spot dedicated to knowing about conspiracies to keep Hackage2 from being deployed based on rationalisations.
07:11:33 <shachaf> elliott_: GET IT
07:12:37 <elliott_> ha
07:12:38 <elliott_> ha
07:12:38 <elliott_> ha
07:12:39 <elliott_> ha
07:12:39 <elliott_> h
07:12:40 <elliott_> aha
07:12:40 <elliott_> h
07:12:42 <elliott_> ah
07:12:44 <elliott_> a
07:12:46 <elliott_> ha
07:12:48 <elliott_> ha
07:12:50 <elliott_> h
07:12:52 <elliott_> ah
07:12:54 <elliott_> ah
07:12:56 <elliott_> ah
07:12:58 <elliott_> ah
07:13:00 <elliott_> h
07:13:02 <elliott_> ah
07:13:04 <elliott_> ah
07:13:06 <elliott_> hah
07:13:08 <elliott_> ah
07:13:10 <elliott_> h
07:13:12 <elliott_> ah
07:13:14 <elliott_> ah
07:13:16 <elliott_> aha
07:13:18 <elliott_> h
07:13:20 <elliott_> a
07:13:22 <elliott_> ha
07:13:24 <elliott_> ha
07:13:26 <elliott_> ha
07:13:28 <elliott_> ha
07:13:30 <elliott_> ha
07:13:32 <elliott_> ha
07:13:34 <elliott_> ha
07:13:36 <elliott_> ha
07:13:38 <elliott_> ha
07:13:40 <elliott_> ha
07:13:42 <elliott_> ha
07:13:44 <elliott_> ha
07:13:46 <elliott_> ...
07:13:48 <elliott_> ha
07:13:50 <elliott_> no
07:14:06 <shachaf> elliott_: Save the laughter for channels with... Less pressure.
07:14:38 <elliott_> <astor> If hackage used something like S3, and objects with versioning, then cost distribution would be flexible. If hackage didn't want to pay, you could just point to an S3 object.
07:14:55 <elliott_> Did you know that all of Hackage's trivially-solvable problems should be solved by moving to $WEB_2.0_TECH_THAT_WILL_REQUIRE_A_COMPLETE_REWRITE?
07:16:09 <zzo38> There is the way I have tried to design the "Ibtlfmm" package system; it is better than Haskell's system in my opinion, and does not require web 2.0 or anything else like that; no centralized system is required either, and no internet is necessarily required.
07:16:38 <zzo38> However it does use internet domain names and aliases for identification.
07:17:24 <zzo38> Possibly if they fixed Haskell compilers to support these kind of thing then it might be able to work, but currently it cannot work.
07:18:51 <elliott_> ais523: Should I sleep?
07:19:01 <ais523> elliott_: I think so :)
07:19:47 <elliott_> ais523: You're just saying that because I spammed the channel with laughter. :(
07:20:07 <zzo38> (For example, with my idea, "hello-world/0.1 example.org packages:" would be a valid package identifier)
07:20:16 <ais523> inded
07:20:18 <ais523> *indeed
07:20:22 <ais523> it's a sign you're tired
07:21:08 <elliott_> ais523: No way, I spam the channel literally all the time as long as oerjan hasn't spoken in the last fifteen minutes or so.
07:21:24 <oerjan> that would explain it.
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07:21:48 <elliott_> oerjan: No. Stop that. You're limiting my options by speaking.
07:21:57 <oerjan> *MWAHAHAHAHA*
07:22:10 <elliott_> cry
07:22:10 <elliott_> cry
07:22:11 <elliott_> cry
07:22:11 <elliott_> cry
07:22:12 <elliott_> cry
07:22:12 <elliott_> cry
07:22:13 <elliott_> cyr
07:22:15 <elliott_> ryc
07:22:17 <elliott_> rcy
07:22:19 <elliott_> cryrycryc
07:22:21 <elliott_> cry
07:22:23 <elliott_> cr
07:22:25 <elliott_> cr
07:22:27 <elliott_> y
07:22:29 <elliott_> y
07:22:31 <elliott_> y
07:22:33 <elliott_> y
07:22:35 <elliott_> yy
07:22:37 <elliott_> y
07:22:39 <elliott_> y
07:22:41 <elliott_> y
07:22:42 <oerjan> not _overly_ limited, i'd say.
07:22:43 <elliott_> y
07:22:45 <elliott_> y
07:22:47 <elliott_> y
07:22:49 <elliott_> :'(
07:22:51 <elliott_> :
07:22:53 <elliott_> '(
07:22:55 <elliott_> cry :'(
07:22:55 <oerjan> GO TO SLEEP
07:23:12 <elliott_> You just want me to wake up when it's dark.
07:23:14 <elliott_> Jerk.
07:23:18 <zzo38> Package names must start with a lowercase letter, and the names "root", "main", and any name beginning with "_", are reserved.
07:23:33 <oerjan> elliott_: keep a light on?
07:23:39 * oerjan does that.
07:23:44 <elliott_> LIGHT IS NOT SUN
07:24:28 <zzo38> SUN IS NOT DARK
07:27:46 <elliott_> bleeeeeeeeeeeeeeh
07:27:51 <elliott_> being awake sucks
07:28:47 <elliott_> you feel like crap and then you still feel like crap the next second which means, thanks to that fucking Zeno, you felt like crap AN INFINITE NUMBER OF TIMES.
07:29:01 <elliott_> from this we can conclude that a second of being awake is literally infinitely terrible.
07:29:26 <ais523> I find walking out in the morning sunlight helps a lot
07:29:37 <ais523> I'll typically go for a 1-2 hour walk at 6am or so if I'm awake
07:29:45 <ais523> although this time I took the bus into work instead
07:30:11 <elliott_> no no no, thanks to sleep deprivation logic I hold a grudge against the sun for making it officially be too late to sleep at a reasonable time
07:31:09 <pikhq_> I find that nothing helps much.
07:31:48 <pikhq_> I have to both set an alarm *and* have cause to be up in order to maintain any sort of correlation with the sun.
07:32:06 * Sgeo_ is suddenly reminded of Solog
07:32:10 <Sgeo_> Er, sollog
07:32:15 <pikhq_> If I don't need to be awake at any particular time, I *will* start waking at 5 pm.
07:32:37 <pikhq_> Heck, just over the course of the weekend I end up waking at 1 pm.
07:32:42 <Sgeo_> http://www.sollog.com/
07:33:00 <Sgeo_> (Warning: Autoplaying YouTube video)
07:33:17 <pikhq_> Admittedly, that's only 4 hours difference from my weekday time of consciousness ATM.
07:33:26 <Sgeo_> Hey, he made a correct prediction!
07:33:43 <Sgeo_> (Probably)
07:33:55 <Sgeo_> I cannot take his voice seriously.
07:34:02 <elliott_> im sollog
07:35:16 <elliott_> ok im hold vote pikhq_ Sgeo_ ais523 oerjan zzo38 shachaf
07:35:22 <elliott_> do i sleep yes/no
07:35:32 <Sgeo_> yes
07:35:33 <shachaf> elliott_: You just ignore everything I say anyway. :-(
07:35:45 <zzo38> No
07:35:52 <oerjan> yes
07:35:54 <elliott_> Damn, zzo38 even used cold hard data to determine that.
07:36:02 <elliott_> shachaf: That response does not fit the valid format!!!
07:36:08 <Sgeo_> Actually, I don't know how to fix sleep cycles, so take my yes with a grain of salt.
07:36:10 <oerjan> i use cold hard _intuition_ so there
07:36:11 <shachaf> elliott_: /
07:36:30 <elliott_> Sgeo_: Oh, there's no way this sleep cycle can be "fixed".
07:36:48 <ais523> elliott_: yes
07:37:01 <elliott_> ONLY TWO VOTES LEFT
07:37:03 <shachaf> (\f.(\x.xx)(\x.f(xx))) (sleep cycle)
07:37:15 <ais523> elliott_: and my experience when I have a similar sleep cycle is, that it can't be fixed, but it can be temporarily stablised if you need to do so for some reason
07:37:32 <oerjan> all this is just proof that evolution is nonsense; humans really originated on another planet with a 26 hour day
07:37:37 <ais523> I can stabilise mine with two days' setup, for about three days at a time, until I end up feeling really tired
07:37:51 <elliott_> oerjan: i thought it was 25. is your slip slipping?
07:38:02 <oerjan> ok somewhere between 25-26
07:38:14 <pikhq_> elliott_: The dice say "no".
07:38:44 <Sgeo_> I'm actively screwing up my sleep cycle as we speak!
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07:39:13 <shachaf> elliott_: It goes back and forth between 25 and 26.
07:39:14 <pikhq_> I'm in the midst of an astonishingly normal chunk of sleep schedule.
07:39:20 <shachaf> elliott_: That's just oerjan's slip cycle.
07:39:30 <oerjan> my sleep cycle is currently approaching back to normal, although this will obviously be temporary.
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07:39:39 <pikhq_> I'm liable to get fucked up by Friday, mind you.
07:40:05 <elliott_> pikhq_: thank you.
07:40:08 <elliott_> shachaf: your vote plees
07:40:26 <pikhq_> It's nearly 1, and I'm actually sleepy.
07:40:30 <pikhq_> Strange as hell.
07:40:45 <pikhq_> Probably helps that I got roughly 11 hours of sleep yesterday.
07:41:10 <elliott_> shachaf: youre vote plees
07:41:24 <elliott_> shachaf: your'e vote plees
07:41:30 <elliott_> ais523: shachaf's vote plees
07:41:31 <shachaf> elliott_: Am I voting for what you *will* do or what you *should* do?
07:41:40 * elliott_ delegation
07:41:47 <ais523> shachaf: should
07:41:58 <shachaf> ais523: Tell elliott_ I'm no moralist.
07:42:06 <ais523> elliott_: shachaf says yes ;)
07:42:17 <elliott_> ok i guess i am convinced HOWEVER
07:42:27 <elliott_> if i wake up and it's dark and i feel like crap you guys are gonna regret it
07:42:29 <elliott_> whenever you get me
07:42:31 <elliott_> to vote on your life decisions
07:42:38 <elliott_> relatedly
07:42:45 <elliott_> you guys better start getting me to vote on your life decisions
07:43:10 <pikhq_> elliott_: sleep i should no yes?
07:43:15 <ais523> 7-8am is actually a common sort of time for me to go to sleep
07:43:28 <ais523> and it refreshes me better than sleeping at most other times of day
07:43:39 <ais523> even if/though it's probably dark when I wake up
07:44:04 <ais523> hmm, it probably will be light when you wake up, though; I predict you wake up at around 4-5pm
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07:51:23 <zzo38> I think it should be your own choice whether you want to wake up or to sleep.
07:53:21 <zzo38> But there are other ways, such as toss a coin, or some people try to answer yes/no questions by astrology or other forms of divination. And this actually seems one such question that I could try to answer by astrology; but this is *not* the kind of thing that people usually try to answer in this way (but to me is more reasonable than the questions other people try to answer in this way).
07:53:38 <zzo38> Voting is certainly one way.
07:54:08 <zzo38> But whether you want to wake up, you should just make up an answer yourself you shouldn't need to do anything else other than that; possibly look at the clock if it is necessary.
07:54:51 <Sgeo_> Flip a coin, you suddenly know what you really want to do?
07:55:12 <zzo38> But there are other ways if you want to (voting, toss a coin, look outside, astrology, chiromancy, tea leaves, or hitting yourself on the head and seeing whether or not you fall down).
07:58:56 <oerjan> > 5*16
07:58:57 <lambdabot> 80
07:59:03 <oerjan> > 3*16
07:59:04 <lambdabot> 48
07:59:06 <oerjan> > 3*25
07:59:07 <lambdabot> 75
07:59:11 <oerjan> > chr 75
07:59:12 <lambdabot> 'K'
08:00:52 <zzo38> Which way do you prefer?
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08:12:59 <ais523> zzo38: are you good enough at astrology to answer the question of when someone should go to sleep with it?
08:13:23 <zzo38> ais523: I think so. But I would require geographical coordinates to do so.
08:13:29 <Sgeo_> I prefer to set-funcallable-instance-function
08:13:40 <ais523> zzo38: Hexham, Northumberland
08:13:48 <zzo38> No, I need them in numbers.
08:14:02 <Sgeo_> MOP's over-elaborate way of dealing with the fact that funcall is not a generic function.
08:14:13 <ais523> 54.971N, 2.101W
08:14:14 <ais523> I just looked it up
08:14:29 <zzo38> OK thanks
08:15:28 <zzo38> I computed the horoscope. No, you should not sleep.
08:16:41 <zzo38> (Some people want to use astrology to determine when to get married and what to buy and sell; I say it works not any better than tossing a coin in these cases.)
08:17:35 <zzo38> (Also visible from the horoscope, it is a full moon; but that is not relevant to your question.)
08:18:40 <ais523> hmm, does this mean that everyone in hexham should be awake right now?
08:19:39 <oerjan> the moon is fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu.. sorry, full
08:19:39 <zzo38> Since that is the only useful information I can use to answer this question using astrology, it means, yes, *according to astrology*. (Other people may have better reasons to sleep right now, however.)
08:21:39 <zzo38> (At least, *according to my calculations using astrology*. In many questions, people can disagree with each other when using astrology. But this is one such question which seems to me that agreement should be more likely; but if other people want to do it differently, then fine, OK, do it your way.)
08:21:39 <ais523> fair enough
08:26:06 <zzo38> And please do not think astrology can answer all of your questions, regardless of what some people say. (For most questions it is not better than flipping a coin; but it is your choice, make your decision using whatever methods you prefer.) (Another possible use of astrology is someone once used it to make up a time of day of birth of a fictional character. This is one example of artistic astrology.)
08:33:32 <zzo38> The phase of the moon is one of the things which is very clear to deduce from a horoscope. (And since I have already told you the phase of the moon; you should be able to deduce from that, without looking, which astrological sign the moon is currently in. Please tell me what your guess is.)
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08:37:56 <ais523> the one opposite the sun, but I'm not sure what that's called
08:38:06 <oerjan> whichever comes after leo - i think it's virgo or libra?
08:38:25 <zzo38> Yes, you are correct; it is Virgo.
08:40:46 <zzo38> According to Wikipedia, "[the Placidus house system] was popularized by Catholic Church as an argument for Ptolemy's geocentric theory of the Solar System, in the campaign against the heliocentric theory."
08:43:49 <zzo38> That seems a strange way to do it
08:47:08 <ais523> indeed
08:52:01 <zzo38> Have they ever heard of retrograde motion?
08:53:46 <ais523> possibly, but back then, I think it was a plausible theory to conclude that planets just did that sometimes
08:54:21 <zzo38> (Relative to the Earth, Mars and Saturn are currently in retrograde. Of course, the reason for this is that they orbit the Sun, not the Earth.)
08:54:35 <zzo38> ais523: But shouldn't they try to think of the question, why would they sometimes do that?
08:55:13 <ais523> there were loads of things people didn't know back then
08:55:14 <Sgeo_> Whee
08:55:20 <ais523> still are now, but there were more then
08:55:38 <Sgeo_> http://paste.lisp.org/display/128209 (my code) vs http://paste.lisp.org/display/128210 (PMD paper's code. Ignore the first annotation)
08:55:49 <zzo38> Yes, it is true, there are things in various fields of study, which people do not know even today.
08:57:09 <zzo38> ais523: But still, even if you don't know, if you know of retrograde motion, it would seem a reasonable question to ask why they are sometimes retrograde.
09:00:11 <zzo38> (The North Node is also currently in retrograde; but that isn't a physical object.)
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09:18:50 <fizzie> ais523: I was under the impression that retrograde motion was solved using those epicycles.
09:19:05 <ais523> oh, right, indeed
09:19:13 <ais523> the problem with epicycles being that they're orbit-complete
09:19:49 <Sgeo_> orbit-complete?
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09:22:12 <fizzie> And in fact Copernicus's heliocentric model also had epicycles in it to compensate for the circular orbits, IIRC.
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09:23:49 <fizzie> Sgeo_: http://images.businessweek.com/ss/07/03/0326_wrigley/image/orbit-complete-mint.jpg
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09:24:06 * Sgeo_ slaps fizzie
09:24:50 <oerjan> ais523: by orbit-complete, do you mean that if you heap enough of them on, you can get _any_ conceivable orbit?
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09:25:48 <oerjan> i vaguely recall something about that, that doing this is essentially a kind of fourier transformation of the actual orbit
09:26:23 <fizzie> FETW, the fast epicycle transformation library, for all your astronomical needs.
09:26:50 <zzo38> But now we can solve it using gravity, which works regardless of what the center of measurement is.
09:27:20 <fizzie> oerjan: An infinite series of epicycles is indeed the most elegant model.
09:27:28 <oerjan> truly
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11:51:28 <ais523> hmm, tdwtf sidebar is great, they just taught me that the inverse femtobarn (fb^-1) is a unit that's actually used occasionally for non-ironic purposes
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16:31:01 <Phantom_Hoover> Oh god, I'm doing that.
16:31:01 <lambdabot> Phantom_Hoover: You have 3 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them.
16:34:17 <ais523> hey Phantom_Hoover, I created a BF derivative yesterday
16:34:24 <ais523> although it was in the context of seeing if a certain set of operations was TC
16:34:37 <ais523> it's BF, except that < rewinds to the first element on the tape rather than moving one square
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17:34:36 <elliott> "Note that String is a synonym for [Char] which explains the type error you got : – Jedai 6 hours ago
17:34:36 <elliott>
17:34:36 <elliott>
17:34:36 <elliott> the context "revComp [ _ ]" expects a [Char] in the " _ " spot (because revComp takes a [String]=[[Char]] as argument) but you put xs in this spot and xs was a [String]=[[Char]] since it comes from a pattern match of the argument of revComp. So [xs] type is [[String]]=[[[Char]]]. The actual type in the "_" spot was [[Char]] whereas the type needed (expected) by the context was only [Char]. Expected type : String=[Char], actual type : [String]=[[C
17:34:38 <elliott> har]]. And Char /= [Char], so you get your type error. – Jedai 6 hours ago"
17:34:50 * elliott thinks this would be a lot more helpful were it not all on one line.
17:35:18 <elliott> 07:44:04: <ais523> hmm, it probably will be light when you wake up, though; I predict you wake up at around 4-5pm
17:35:27 <elliott> ais523: 4:30 pm or so, so yep
17:35:54 <elliott> 08:15:28: <zzo38> I computed the horoscope. No, you should not sleep.
17:35:54 <elliott> Whoops.
17:37:32 <elliott> ais523: yay, another legitimate user passed the captcha
17:37:45 <elliott> ais523: which means legitimate users are now tied with spammers for passing the registration captchas
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17:37:56 <elliott> oh, hmm, not quite
17:38:00 <elliott> more legitimate users than i thought
17:38:46 <elliott> wait...
17:38:56 <elliott> ais523: why is Ytommyro93i not in http://esolangs.org/wiki/Special:Log/newusers?
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17:54:52 <ais523> elliott: did you merge them with deleted spam user?
17:55:45 <elliott> ais523: no
17:55:51 <ais523> also, are you feeling good/bad about when you woke up?
17:55:51 <elliott> and even if I did, it wouldn't delete the log entry
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17:56:13 <elliott> bad enough that you're all doomed, good enough that I'm not going to doom you all just yet
17:58:48 <Friendship> Phantom_Hoover needs to work on his connection.
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18:05:20 <ais523> btw, anyone know why Slashdot sometimes interprets <i> as <blockquote>?
18:05:39 <elliott> because Ctrl+I is tab
18:05:42 <elliott> and blockquotes are usually indented
18:06:02 <elliott> but sometimes Ctrl+I is interpreted for italics due to the first letter of "italic" being "i"
18:06:04 <elliott> (such as Konversation)
18:06:06 <elliott> hope this helps
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18:08:22 <ais523> I would laugh so much if that was the reason
18:08:31 <ais523> *that were
18:08:37 <ais523> because apparently being tired makes me pedantic
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18:10:43 * elliott thinks it's a perfectly plausible implausible explanation
18:11:13 <ais523> I'm wondering if they used to italicise quotes by default
18:11:25 <ais523> then decided to do an s/<i>/<blockquote>/g on their database
18:11:37 <ais523> to make them blockquotes instead
18:11:39 <elliott> ISTR quotes on slashdot being italic
18:11:47 <ais523> ISTR that too
18:11:58 <ais523> and apparently they did it even in the middle of a sentence
18:12:40 <elliott> maybe they did it at the start of a line
18:12:40 <elliott> i.e.
18:12:43 <elliott> someone who writes comments
18:12:49 <elliott> <i>wrapping manually</i> like this
18:12:51 <elliott> would get caught by it
18:15:55 <ais523> I don't wrap manually
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18:16:00 <ais523> except when my browser does it for me
18:16:05 * ais523 glares at SunOS Mozilla
18:16:23 <elliott> why did you use SunOS, again?
18:16:37 <elliott> wait, the reason is going to be really stupid, isn't it
18:17:15 <ais523> because it was a choice of SunOS and Windows and I was trying to run POSIXy stuff
18:17:19 <ais523> (including but not limited to C-INTERCAL)
18:17:36 <elliott> "The binding community discussion on the Abortion article names as requested by the Arbitration Committee has commenced. [dismiss]"
18:17:37 <elliott> my condolences to anyone involved in what will inevitably be a complete trainwreck
18:17:41 * ais523 suspects that this answer is less stupid than elliott might have been discussing
18:17:51 <asiekierka_> oh hey it's elliott
18:18:01 <ais523> wait, is there seriously a major push to name it something other than [[Abortion]]? or is this about subarticles?
18:18:02 <elliott> urrrrrrgh not you again
18:18:16 <elliott> ais523: "The Arbitration Committee has requested a binding, structured community discussion on the article titles "Support for the legalization of abortion" and "Opposition to the legalization of abortion"."
18:18:39 <ais523> so typical of Wikipedia
18:18:46 <ais523> also, hmm at [[absurd brainfuck]]
18:18:46 <elliott> ais523: prediction: half the people want "Support for the continued illegality of abortion" and "Opposition to the continued illegality of abortion"
18:18:50 <ais523> does that article even make sense at all?
18:18:55 <ais523> http://esolangs.org/wiki/absurd_brainfuck
18:18:55 <elliott> and no, it doesn't
18:19:06 <elliott> half of tailcalled's articles are just stupid joke BF derivatives
18:19:54 <ais523> I mean, OK, TwoDucks is uncomputable, but it has nicely and precisely defined semantics, even if they're unimplementable
18:20:00 <ais523> Absurd BF doesn't mean anything
18:20:20 <elliott> btw, your link is broken
18:20:23 <elliott> (the article is mistitled)
18:20:35 <ais523> oh, right
18:20:47 <ais523> I should really put a caps redirect in my autolinker, but I can't be bothered
18:20:52 <elliott> I was going to wikiformat it and categorise it, but I think I'll just leave uninteresting BF derivatives to rot in the future
18:21:14 <ais523> (there's an URL construction scheme that goes to the article verbatim if it exists, the name in various other cases if it doesn't, and the search page if none of those do)
18:21:24 <ais523> (it's intended for use by the Go button)
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18:22:06 <elliott> well, the hourglass button these days
18:22:19 <elliott> which, btw, is inexplicably differently-aligned on Wikipedia to everywhere else
18:22:23 <oklofok> anything of interest to me happen in the last couple of days?
18:22:36 <elliott> compare top-right of http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page and http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MediaWiki to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page in Vector
18:23:09 <elliott> * A language that is similar to that in Star Trek the next generation episode "Darmok" [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darmok] . I don't know what that could mean with programming languages. Look up Darmok reviews online. Here are 2: [http://blip.tv/sf-debris-opinionated-reviews/tng-darmok-review-5884483]
18:23:26 <Friendship> Hahaha
18:23:31 <Friendship> Best terrible idea /ever/.
18:23:33 <Friendship> I want it.
18:23:54 <elliott> i like how it says "here are 2" but actually only links to one
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18:25:54 <ais523> <ais523> you mean magnifying glass, not hourglass, right?
18:26:42 <elliott> err, yes
18:26:45 <elliott> wow, MediaWiki's memoryalpha interwiki is really out-of-date; the links it produces don't even work
18:27:48 <elliott> http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_ideas&curid=1669&diff=30948&oldid=30947 hmm, this is possibly stretching the definition of "format"
18:35:13 <ais523> it's more similar to "wikify"
18:35:24 <ais523> but there's a content change too (if a trivial correction)
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18:38:56 <elliott> surprise cpressey edit!
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18:39:41 <Phantom_Hoover> [[Absurd Brainfuck]] is the worst idea.
18:39:58 <elliott> You know the procedure.
18:40:14 <Phantom_Hoover> It's not even the worst idea in that sense.
18:40:19 <Phantom_Hoover> It's just generally an awful idea.
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18:41:24 <ais523> it might almost be a good idea if it made some sort of sense
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18:41:31 <ais523> but it doesn't
18:44:37 <oerjan> if it worked like haskell's reverse state monad somehow...
18:44:55 <elliott> ais523: realisation: I think I took down the sitenotice ~1 day before cpressey visited the wiki for the first time in months :D
18:45:17 <ais523> oerjan: Haskell has a reverse state monad?
18:45:23 <ais523> I can, umm, sort of see how that would work
18:45:29 <ais523> but not think of any applications for it
18:45:32 <elliott> http://lukepalmer.wordpress.com/2008/08/10/mindfuck-the-reverse-state-monad/
18:45:39 <elliott> you can do the fibonacci numbers with it
18:46:24 <elliott> there's also http://www.reddit.com/comments/6j2fy/backwards_state_monad/c03zgnv
18:46:27 <elliott> for a "practical" application
18:46:41 <ais523> bleh, mindfuck is a different thing from brainfuck and minscrew?
18:47:57 <ais523> *mindscrew
18:48:16 <oerjan> hm the question i then have is whether you could ever do a loop test without data flow deadlock
18:48:44 <ais523> <Andrew> I just googled “state monad simple example” and this link cropped up.
18:50:02 <olsner> I think if you combine the backwards and forwards state monads you should get MonadFix for State
18:51:23 <elliott> olsner: i tried that once, combining the flow from each direction monoidally
18:51:27 <elliott> it got messy
18:52:48 <elliott> ais523: wait, presumably the reason that user isn't in the creation log is because they /already existed/
18:52:53 <elliott> and so didn't pass the captcha at all
18:52:58 <ais523> that's a plausible enough explanation
18:52:58 <elliott> which would explain why i couldn't find them in the logs
18:53:01 <elliott> *server logs
18:53:15 <elliott> that's how most of the spammers are getting through, after all
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18:57:50 * oerjan cackles evilly.
18:59:08 <elliott> wat
18:59:15 <elliott> ah
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19:09:08 <oerjan> <elliott> I was going to wikiformat it and categorise it, but I think I'll just leave uninteresting BF derivatives to rot in the future
19:09:33 <oerjan> i have occasionally had the weird thought if they should get their own namespace
19:09:51 <oerjan> just to make a point
19:11:31 <olsner> move them to the bfwiki
19:11:31 <Friendship> Their own wiki.
19:11:36 <Friendship> uninterestingbfderivatives.com
19:12:16 <ais523> meanwhile, Slashdot are busy arguing about whether the recent claim someone's made to have produced a 230% efficient LED are sane or not
19:12:49 <ais523> the argument is that actually it's an electrically-powered heat pump, that converts ambient heat to light, and more such heat than the electrical input
19:13:02 <ais523> quite a few commentors are suggesting connecting the thing to a solar panel to see what happens…
19:13:24 <olsner> the solar panel needs to be more than 44% effective for an interesting effect
19:13:32 <Sgeo_> elliott, monqy tswett if you didn't see: UPDATE
19:13:38 <oerjan> even a heat pump needs a temperature _difference_...
19:13:43 <ais523> indeed, but that's doable with modern technology, I think
19:13:51 <ais523> oerjan: no, it needs an energy source
19:14:02 <ais523> heat pumps create a temperature difference and consume energy to do so
19:14:10 <tswett> Sgeo_: just the flash? Aye.
19:14:18 <ais523> now, there is an energy source (the electricity), but it's less than the amount of heat pumped…
19:14:55 <oerjan> hm...
19:15:19 <elliott> <oerjan> i have occasionally had the weird thought if they should get their own namespace
19:15:20 <elliott> oerjan: :D
19:15:23 <elliott> oerjan: I COULD DO IT
19:15:30 <ais523> elliott: you know what you should /actually/ do instead, right?
19:16:57 <elliott> http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_ideas&curid=1669&diff=30952&oldid=30948
19:20:17 <ais523> oh, btw, I had an awesome esolang idea in a dream weeks ago, and now can't remember most of it
19:20:21 <olsner> hmm, you probably need a few tokens beyond those keywords as well...
19:20:23 <olsner> <>{}; for starters - and identifiers
19:20:30 <ais523> (note that as I had it in a dream, it may not follow the rules of logic, or fail to make any sense for other reasons)
19:20:44 <ais523> but I remember that the main concept was that there was only one program, which was a physical obect
19:20:45 <ais523> *object
19:20:59 <ais523> and you programmed in it by physically travelling elsewhere in the world so that you were looking at it from a different perspective
19:21:02 <oerjan> ais523: hey it could still be better than most on the wiki
19:21:03 <ais523> which changed what it meant
19:21:09 <elliott> :D
19:21:51 <oerjan> fractal sundial comes to mind
19:21:59 <ais523> wow, now I'm laughing out load at that for some reason
19:22:34 <oerjan> *digital
19:22:40 <ais523> well, both
19:22:43 <elliott> wait, which word became digital?
19:22:47 <ais523> elliott: fractal
19:22:57 <olsner> how about a language where the empty program does "everything" (in some defined universe), and to get useful work done you need to describe everything that the program should not do
19:22:57 <ais523> it helps if you know the object that oerjan's describing
19:23:05 <ais523> now I'm wondering if any of the things have ever been made?
19:23:27 <ais523> olsner: arguably, constraint-based programming does that
19:23:34 <ais523> oklopol-Clue, Proud, etc
19:23:34 * elliott doesn't know the object oerjan is describing.
19:23:37 <oerjan> didn't wikipedia mention a real one...
19:23:37 <elliott> however http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_sundial
19:24:09 <olsner> ais523: oh, that's kind of what I was thinking about yes... sounds boring :(
19:24:19 <elliott> "The first prototype of the device was constructed in 1994. In 1998 for the first time a fractal sundial was installed in a public place (Genk, Belgium).[3] There exist window and tabletop versions as well.[4]"
19:25:02 <ais523> now I want one of those, but I bet they're really expensive
19:25:15 <ais523> and I'd have nowhere to put it
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19:25:51 <ais523> btw, I think it's theoretically possible to have a (fractal) digital sundial that shows the date too (not the year, though)
19:25:56 <elliott> "window/tabletop" versions don't sound like they'd be expensive
19:26:00 <elliott> or they wouldn't be very profitable to make
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19:26:18 <ais523> I have the feeling that they aren't made very much for that reason
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19:26:46 <fizzie> "The cost per sundial is $ 129.00. Sundials will be shipped from Vermont via USPS Priority Mail."
19:26:57 <fizzie> Sorry, that was the US price.
19:26:59 <oerjan> ais523: i recall discussing that previously and concluding that there must be days in the spring that cannot be distinguished from days in the autumn
19:27:04 <fizzie> "The cost per sundial is € 91.00. Sundials will be shipped from Germany. Within Germany, the shipping cost is € 2.30 per sundial; for other European countries, the shipping cost is € 4.60 per sundial."
19:27:23 <ais523> fizzie: I just found that
19:27:27 <fizzie> That's not "really expensive", but not quite cheap either.
19:27:31 <ais523> €91 is more than I'm willing to pay for a digital sundial
19:27:42 <ais523> it's in the range of things that I could afford, but more than the value I put on one
19:29:09 <fizzie> "We currently offer mounts for 30, 35, 40, 45, 50, and 55 degrees latitude." Well, this is 60.
19:29:49 <elliott> oh dear, Wolfram has his own blog
19:29:56 <ais523> elliott: why does that surprise you?
19:30:02 <Sgeo_> elliott, I need to stop being part of the MSPA community. My levels of surprise at [S] Jane: Enter were rather low.
19:30:06 <elliott> ais523: it doesn't, just worries
19:30:17 <ais523> it was probably inevitable, wasn't it?
19:30:28 <elliott> ais523: :(
19:30:43 <elliott> "Every day—in an effort at “self awareness”—I have automated systems send me a few emails about the day before. But even though I’ve been accumulating data for years—and always meant to analyze it—I’ve never actually gotten around to doing it. But with Mathematica and the automated data analysis capabilities we just released in Wolfram|Alpha Pro, I thought now would be a good time to finally try taking a look—and to use myself a
19:30:43 <elliott> s an experimental subject for studying what one might call “personal analytics”."
19:30:56 <elliott> do you think he's this much of a shill 24/7?
19:30:59 <elliott> (yes)
19:31:37 <elliott> "But what about the 1990s? Well, that was when I spent a decade as something of a hermit, working very hard on A New Kind of Science."
19:31:39 <ais523> elliott: I don't even think he's intentionally shilling
19:31:44 <elliott> what a waste of a decade
19:31:54 <monqy> that "self awareness" effort reminds me a bit of itidus
19:32:13 <ais523> and nah, ANKOS introduced me to a bunch of paradigms I wouldn't know existed otherwise
19:32:27 <MDude> What, is he saying he's going to study patterns in his own writing?
19:32:28 <ais523> admittedly I had to find more reliable sources about them, but just knowing they exist is good
19:32:42 <elliott> MDude: no, email-sending and shit
19:32:46 <elliott> http://blog.stephenwolfram.com/2012/03/the-personal-analytics-of-my-life/
19:33:13 <MDude> So just what time of day he sends and receives stuff?
19:33:15 <elliott> "For many years, I’ve captured every keystroke I’ve typed"
19:33:19 <elliott> more than email, apparently
19:33:54 <Friendship> "One day I shall publish every keystroke I've ever typed into a single book, and sell it under the title A New Kind of Novel"
19:34:05 <ais523> Friendship: you just made that up, right? still, it's great
19:34:06 <olsner> I should get something for vim that records every keystroke I make (except the text itself, which might contain secret sauce)
19:34:22 <ais523> also, this probably means it's quite easy to determine his password if you know where to look…
19:34:31 <MDude> All I can tell from the first one is that he apparently goes ot sleep at 3AM.
19:35:49 <MDude> Except for between 1996 and 2002, where he drifted later for a while and then suddenly snapped back.
19:36:29 <MDude> Before that it's a bit fuzzier, though.
19:36:34 <ais523> elliott: you know the Star Trek-related link that you wikified?
19:36:39 <ais523> are you sure it's not actually human-added spam?
19:36:48 -!- pikhq_ has joined.
19:36:57 <ais523> an attempt to add a specific link in an attempt to make it look ontopic?
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19:37:19 <elliott> ais523: 90% sure or so
19:37:21 <Friendship> What is the motivation to spam a Wikipedia link ...
19:37:28 <elliott> Friendship: it links to a review of the TNG episode
19:37:29 <ais523> Friendship: not the Wikipedia link
19:37:31 <ais523> the external
19:37:32 <Friendship> Ohhhh
19:37:40 <elliott> presumably the episode is known for being especially bad or whatever
19:37:52 <Friendship> It's an amazaterrible episode 8-D
19:37:56 <Friendship> I remember it well!
19:37:57 <ais523> but it's not "Spock's Brain", which is famously the worst Star Wars episode ever
19:38:01 <Friendship> Darmok and Jillad at Tinagra!
19:38:06 <elliott> yes, Spock's Brain is the worst Star Wars episode
19:38:08 <olsner> it's the famousiest TNG episode, probably
19:38:14 <elliott> even worse than Attack of the Clones
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19:38:22 <ais523> err, Start Trek
19:38:26 <ais523> *Star Trek
19:38:30 <elliott> yes, which is better than Stop Trek
19:38:44 <elliott> anyway, (a) way too intelligently-placed for even a human spammer,
19:38:55 <Friendship> That being said, that is a legit language idea, and even an esoteric one.
19:38:58 <elliott> (b) no obvious profit motive to spam that link,
19:38:59 <Friendship> Although probably not realizable.
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19:39:07 <elliott> (c) idea is fairly well thought-out according to those who have the context
19:39:11 <ais523> ah, OK
19:39:20 <elliott> ais523: also, the user who added it isn't an IP
19:39:24 <elliott> and has made other valid contributions
19:39:26 <elliott> to the list of ideas
19:39:33 <elliott> without links
19:39:37 <elliott> if they're a spambot, they're _really_ dedicated
19:39:38 <ais523> I guess I'm just used to Wikipedia trolls who came up with really complex and sophisticated methods of spamming that are about on a level of what I've been describing
19:39:39 <elliott> *spamperson
19:39:58 <ais523> not for any obvious reason, either
19:40:17 <olsner> btw, star trek (starträck) means starling droppings in swedish
19:40:42 <Friendship> The Final Frontier ...
19:41:11 <elliott> ais523: [[List of ideas]] is weirdly WardsWikiish
19:41:33 <elliott> with the varying styles of writing, intermingled content-and-commentary without signatures, etc.
19:41:37 <ais523> I like that
19:41:46 <elliott> yes, it's pleasantly anarchic
19:41:54 <ais523> people should use that style of wiki more often
19:42:06 -!- MoALTz_ has joined.
19:42:19 <ais523> strangely enough, Talk pages often end up like that on Wikipedia
19:42:34 <ais523> especially if they're being periodically refactored but everyone but the person refactoring is ignoring the refactoring
19:42:42 <ais523> (as in, not reverting it, just not respecting the fact it's happened)
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19:50:36 <elliott> ais523: I think it might have been Chaitin who wrote that Lisp interpreter.
19:50:59 <elliott> "And in Chapter 4 we present a register machine interpreter for this LISP, and then compile it into a diophantine equation." -- Algorithmic Information Theory by Gregory. J. Chaitin, 1987
19:51:01 <elliott> thanks, Google
19:51:06 <ais523> elliott: that rings a bell
19:51:14 <ais523> although I wouldn't have got it without the reminder, I think
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19:51:36 <oerjan> why am i suddenly thinking of pavlov
19:51:41 <oerjan> and salivating
19:51:53 <olsner> diophantine equations are turing complete?
19:52:01 <ais523> yes
19:52:11 <ais523> this was almost a problem in my research a couple of years back
19:52:21 <olsner> I can't even remember what they are, though I think I knew at one time
19:52:26 <olsner> well enough to pass the course, iirc
19:52:38 <ais523> it took me some work to prove that the suspiciously diophantine-equation-like set of inequalities I had was actually decidable
19:52:56 <elliott> oerjan: wat
19:53:01 <elliott> oh rings a bell
19:53:03 <ais523> and equations concerning polynomials on multiple variables, all of which are integers
19:53:15 <ais523> olsner: go swat elliott for me, will you?
19:53:26 <ais523> err, oerjan:
19:53:49 <oerjan> ais523: i cannot do that, it was entrapment
19:53:59 <ais523> OK, olsner, you swat him then
19:54:07 <ais523> actually
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20:06:24 <elliott> olsner: well?
20:08:05 <olsner> elliott: well?
20:09:10 <elliott> <ais523> OK, olsner, you swat him then
20:09:15 -!- Finnmark has changed nick to y-u-no.
20:15:24 <ais523> ooh, apparently I've been on Reddit for a year, for the nearest day
20:15:47 <oerjan> happy cake day!
20:16:11 <oerjan> i'd have thought you'd been there longer.
20:16:30 <ais523> ooh, I got 16 comment karma for pointing out a respect in which Emacs and Eclipse were equally good, in the middle of what was becoming an editor war
20:16:42 <ais523> presumably, because claiming that they're equally good at something doesn't annoy fanboys of either side
20:16:58 <oerjan> fiendish
20:17:12 <ais523> well, it was correcting an implication made by the parent comment
20:17:14 <olsner> the 16 upvotes were from vim users who hate both emacs and eclipse
20:17:20 <Sgeo_> I think I got a bit more karma than that for the less impressive feat of making a Christine O'Donnell
20:18:04 <olsner> hmm, I'm not sure my last statement makes any sense
20:18:04 <ais523> oh, the single comment that gave me the /most/ karma was for bashing PHP, but it still wasn't very much
20:18:08 <ais523> after that, for bashing VHDL
20:18:37 <Sgeo_> I got 28 karma for saying "I'm you"
20:18:55 <ais523> were you?
20:19:24 <elliott> i got 101 karma for saying "I CAN SHARE CHEEZBURGR?". beat that, fuckers.
20:20:02 <elliott> most of my old comments are shite
20:20:14 <elliott> i did get 1419 link karma from stealing a link from another thread, though!
20:20:22 <ais523> someone here got over 1000 karma from one comment, IIRC
20:20:28 <ais523> but I forget who or why
20:20:35 <ais523> hmm, what's the single highest-rated comment on Reddit ever, I wonder?
20:20:57 <elliott> i forget what it was, but i remember it was shit
20:21:03 <elliott> the highest-voted post of all time is the "test post please ignore" i think
20:21:32 <elliott> indeed
20:21:57 <ais523> oh right
20:22:03 <ais523> was it first post ever, or something?
20:22:09 <elliott> no
20:22:26 <elliott> people just upvoted it because it told people to ignore it and because qgyh2 posted it
20:22:32 <ais523> oh, right
20:22:35 <ais523> who's qgyh2?
20:22:48 <elliott> one of the highest-karma users on reddit, the highest a few years ago iirc
20:23:01 <elliott> well, http://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/92dd8/test_post_please_ignore/c0b6xx0 is a comment at 6356 points, that has to be one of the top comments
20:23:08 <ais523> there's something weirdly circular about upvoting someone because they have high karma
20:23:17 <ais523> and, umm, what's the picture (and is it SFW)?
20:23:39 <elliott> what picture?
20:23:46 <ais523> well, it's in r/pics
20:23:59 <elliott> qgyh2 is a mod of /r/pics
20:24:01 <ais523> so I assumed the post was at least vaguely ontopic
20:24:08 <ais523> not the comment itself, but the post it was attached to
20:24:14 <elliott> well, test posts for a subreddit generally go in that subreddit
20:24:33 <elliott> ais523: oh, and it was a self-post, so he got no karma for it :)
20:24:35 <ais523> oh, it's a test /post/, not test comment?
20:24:45 <ais523> also, why aren't self-posts worth karma?
20:25:16 <elliott> ais523: because "UPVOTE IF DSKLSDJFLKSDFJ;" and all that kind of shit are self-posts
20:25:43 <ais523> surely making them worth karma would encourage people not to upvote them?
20:26:12 <ais523> btw, highly-rated YouTube comments are often hilariously insightful parodies of the whole YouTube comment thing
20:26:19 <elliott> fsvo hilariously insightful
20:26:27 <ais523> well, by /YouTube/ standards
20:26:28 <elliott> ais523: no, people upvote them no matter what, because reddit is full of idiots
20:26:44 <ais523> hmm, right
20:26:48 <ais523> I mostly stay confined to proggit
20:27:02 <ais523> and occasionally r/nethack, if we're trying to do an announcement there
20:27:39 <elliott> proggit is probably the least terrible of all the popular subreddits
20:27:51 <elliott> except when they try and talk about non-tech-related things
20:27:55 <oerjan> the theory is any subreddit larger than about 10000 subscribers will turn into a meme fest unless heavily moderated
20:28:37 <oerjan> is proggit on the default front page?
20:28:57 <elliott> no, not for the past few years, I think
20:29:14 <elliott> proggit's comments are rather low-quality usually
20:29:20 <elliott> 359k subscribers
20:29:25 <oerjan> i think r/science is the only front page subreddit i still read
20:29:28 <elliott> though it's questionable how many of those actually pay attention to it
20:29:31 <elliott> since it used to be default
20:29:47 <elliott> oerjan: not /r/askscience too? oh, wait, they got taken off
20:30:02 <ais523> elliott: proggit's comments are typically low-quality but there are frequently high-quality ones there too
20:30:13 <elliott> (they asked to be since it was becoming too shitty for the mods to handle thanks to the traffic)
20:30:18 <ais523> although that's more pronounced in Slashdot, which almost always eventually ends up with a few excellent comments
20:30:26 <oerjan> no i don't follow askscience but i thought that was better due to particularly heavy moderation?
20:30:49 <oerjan> but perhaps even they couldn't handle being frontpage
20:31:06 <elliott> yes, they delete comments in almost every thread
20:34:29 <elliott> http://www.securelist.com/en/blog/667/The_Mystery_of_the_Duqu_Framework fancy
20:36:04 <elliott> Vagrant 1.0 released! (vagrantup.com)
20:36:06 <elliott> WHO FORKED MY ROGUELIKE
20:38:30 <ais523> elliott: I thought of your roguelike too
20:38:36 <ais523> it isn't, but what it is is actually moderately interesting
20:39:28 <elliott> yes, Vagrant actually looks useful, I've seen it before
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20:52:30 <elliott> SQL.js: SQLite Compiled to JavaScript via Emscripten (badassjs.com)
20:52:34 <elliott> JUST WHAT THE WORLD NEEDS
20:57:17 <ais523> ooh, now we can run it in the JS interp that's embedded in PHP!
20:59:06 <elliott> that's just a binding to V8
20:59:16 <elliott> the only ridiculous thing about that is that PHP bundles all its external library bindings
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21:03:52 <zzo38> I know a chess variant called Pole Chess. There is an extra piece called a pole which starts off-board. It can move to any vacant cell as a turn, but cannot capture or be captured.
21:03:58 <zzo38> Once I played Pole Chess; neither me nor my opponent used the Pole but both of our
21:04:04 <zzo38> Once I played Pole Chess; neither me nor my opponent used the Pole but both of our
21:04:15 <oklofok> Once I played Pole Chess; neither me nor my opponent used the Pole but both of our
21:04:21 <zzo38> Once I played Pole Chess; neither me nor my opponent used the Pole but both of our moves still took the existence of the pole (off-board) into consideration for out strategies.
21:04:32 <oklofok> catchy chorus you have there
21:05:03 <oklofok> you should work on your rhymes though
21:05:07 <elliott> :D
21:05:15 <elliott> someone's gotta record that
21:06:44 <zzo38> I was not trying to make a chorus; I made a mistake in entering the message
21:06:53 <oklofok> ohh
21:06:57 <oklofok> sorry, i misunderstood.
21:07:37 <elliott> no it's a chorus now
21:11:24 <oklofok> zzo38: could you write the verses as well?
21:12:50 <elliott> oklofok: the verses are everything else he's said today
21:13:01 <oklofok> ah.
21:13:09 <oklofok> could you record them?
21:13:17 <oklofok> i mean, sing them and put a beat under it.
21:13:21 <oklofok> and sell it
21:13:30 <oklofok> zzo38 gets nothing because he doesn't want money
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21:34:55 <coppro> `help
21:35:01 <HackEgo> Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`<command>", or "`run <command>" for full shell commands. "`fetch <URL>" downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert <rev>" can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
21:39:19 <zzo38> oklofok: There are no verses. And I do not have the microphone on my computer.
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22:13:42 <elliott> fizzie: ping
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23:30:33 <tswett> What does the phrase "Matalii ja Mustii" mean, if anything?
23:33:41 <ion> A spoken-language version of “matalia ja mustia” which means “low and black [ones]”.
23:33:43 <nortti> short and black
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23:55:42 * tswett nods.
23:55:44 <tswett> How sinister.
23:55:46 <tswett> Thank you.
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