< 1331337647 378218 :oklofok!~oklopol@40.Red-83-33-112.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i'll change my whole life and be nicer from now on < 1331337666 631790 :oklofok!~oklopol@40.Red-83-33-112.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello Friendship, how's life? < 1331337669 120647 :oklofok!~oklopol@40.Red-83-33-112.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like you < 1331337693 420139 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :OCH NAE OCH FRM STL QUANK < 1331337757 87957 :oklofok!~oklopol@40.Red-83-33-112.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would like to "peg" your "pardon" if you catch my drift < 1331337772 522711 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :D-8 < 1331337793 406309 :oklofok!~oklopol@40.Red-83-33-112.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean i don't understand OCHlotalk < 1331337848 321161 :oklofok!~oklopol@40.Red-83-33-112.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but at least i learned a new word today < 1331337855 463025 :oklofok!~oklopol@40.Red-83-33-112.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :a very useful word. < 1331337926 224805 :oklofok!~oklopol@40.Red-83-33-112.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see that people have discussed logic :O < 1331338015 793477 :nortti!~chatzilla@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.1 [Firefox 10.0.2/20120216213642] < 1331338042 676700 :MoALTz_!~no@host-92-2-139-82.as43234.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1331338077 115002 :MoALTz_!~no@host-92-2-139-82.as43234.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1331338311 919439 :oklofok!~oklopol@40.Red-83-33-112.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what else do you know that you've been holding out on me? < 1331338330 941363 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: err, I don't know < 1331338358 897478 :oklofok!~oklopol@40.Red-83-33-112.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, please tell me when you remember < 1331338362 738840 :oklofok!~oklopol@40.Red-83-33-112.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but none of that boring stuff < 1331338364 954817 :oklofok!~oklopol@40.Red-83-33-112.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :just the good stuff < 1331338602 255314 :oklofok!~oklopol@40.Red-83-33-112.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay you can also tell me the boring stuff < 1331338605 775652 :oklofok!~oklopol@40.Red-83-33-112.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you really want to < 1331338634 622518 :oklofok!~oklopol@40.Red-83-33-112.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :not all of it thought because my head would become too heavy < 1331338643 668993 :oklofok!~oklopol@40.Red-83-33-112.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*though < 1331338665 962285 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: one thing I've been wondering about is if CBPV and Underload are equivalent or not (allowing for the difference in typedness) < 1331338675 49423 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think CBPV embeds in Underload, but not trivially the other way round < 1331338727 718389 :oklofok!~oklopol@40.Red-83-33-112.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know anything about CBPV, but by the one sentence explanation by found, yeah it sounds like they could be < 1331338873 616321 :oklofok!~oklopol@40.Red-83-33-112.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have so many new ideas it's overwhelming < 1331338926 344833 :oklofok!~oklopol@40.Red-83-33-112.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :conferences are dangerous < 1331339186 738473 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know what you mean < 1331339196 125102 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :partly because my supervisor keeps thinking things are relevant when they aren't < 1331339295 45413 :oklofok!~oklopol@40.Red-83-33-112.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i choose my topics myself, my supervisor mostly occasionally tells me that something i'm researching is a dead end < 1331339301 846422 :oklofok!~oklopol@40.Red-83-33-112.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(picture languages) < 1331339372 719923 :oklofok!~oklopol@40.Red-83-33-112.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly it's dangerous because i can't concentrate on any single idea because the others are just as interesting < 1331339409 426502 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1331339489 156813 :oklofok!~oklopol@40.Red-83-33-112.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i mostly don't work on them at all, i just come up with more of them < 1331339519 453200 :oklofok!~oklopol@40.Red-83-33-112.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess it would be nice to have some ideas for the summer, it would be nice to keep this publication speed up < 1331339552 700502 :oklofok!~oklopol@40.Red-83-33-112.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, the speed i expect, depends on our success in peer-review of course) < 1331339558 971466 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1331339589 174591 :oklofok!~oklopol@40.Red-83-33-112.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :another problem is that when an idea is awesome enough, i'm afraid i'll destroy it if i think about it (for instance if it doesn't work) < 1331339877 33269 :oklofok!~oklopol@40.Red-83-33-112.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hugged a tree the other day < 1331340081 873277 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1331340094 55289 :oklofok!~oklopol@40.Red-83-33-112.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi elliott, have you hugged any trees lately < 1331340231 273024 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: did it hug you back? < 1331340318 654906 :oklofok!~oklopol@40.Red-83-33-112.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, just the way i like it < 1331340364 603642 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :im tre < 1331340374 252121 :oklofok!~oklopol@40.Red-83-33-112.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you ar tre?? < 1331340381 231 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: u tre? < 1331340383 959244 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i trie < 1331340399 230609 :oklofok!~oklopol@40.Red-83-33-112.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what knd ofa tre? < 1331340408 721855 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :bad sci-fi protagonist names #3434838 Patricia Trie < 1331340481 319813 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, tswett monqy UPDATE < 1331340489 739273 :oklofok!~oklopol@40.Red-83-33-112.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :to PSOX? < 1331340493 184648 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo UPDATE < 1331340518 494185 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure what you're supposed to update, but I guess you better do it < 1331340531 242755 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes psox is now best < 1331340536 592024 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oklofok the heating went off can you fix it < 1331340545 35155 :oklofok!~oklopol@40.Red-83-33-112.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1331340550 39566 :oklofok!~oklopol@40.Red-83-33-112.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i CAN fix it < 1331340559 608353 :oklofok!~oklopol@40.Red-83-33-112.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i won't, because you haven't paid your debt < 1331340578 839007 :oklofok!~oklopol@40.Red-83-33-112.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not a whore you know, you have to PAY me if you want something from me. < 1331340647 96467 :oklofok!~oklopol@40.Red-83-33-112.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what color is your irc? < 1331340783 82083 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, my lisp now does lexical instead of dynamic scoping, has some kind of closures, and supports destructive updates < 1331340802 73197 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :what can you do with a lisp? < 1331340825 539901 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Add continuations? < 1331340839 783164 :oklofok!~oklopol@40.Red-83-33-112.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: start over and do all that again < 1331340840 996039 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I suppose... been thinking of transforming it into a compiler too < 1331340842 486383 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :According to Oleg, delimited continuations are actually more powerful. < 1331340989 763972 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: remove the destructive updates < 1331340992 529221 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :might finish the gc... but it's a bit silly - I don't think I can actually unallocate memory, I think the closest thing I have is to allocate a new heap that is smaller < 1331341004 952533 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: then add laziness :P < 1331341034 472296 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lazy lisp is actually really easy if all you have is cons pairs and symbols < 1331341035 816270 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :too lazy to do that, maybe I'll implement a lazy lisp inside the lisp I have though < 1331341046 869217 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's easy! < 1331341047 940486 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. find a lazy lisp I can port < 1331341078 487340 :oklofok!~oklopol@40.Red-83-33-112.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :can we ever really "port" anything though < 1331341224 922069 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hmm, how easy is it? < 1331341252 38268 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: well, what data types do you have and how many primitives? < 1331341286 855271 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should be conses, lambdas, symbols and ints < 1331341294 137841 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :should be? < 1331341360 387288 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, plus random other stuff if I mix up host and lisp objects < 1331341404 448917 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1331341406 559098 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the host? < 1331341464 532121 :oklofok!~oklopol@40.Red-83-33-112.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually there's a silent g, it should be ghost < 1331341489 70523 :oklofok!~oklopol@40.Red-83-33-112.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn scandinavians < 1331341509 533432 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not so much a silent g in "ghost" as an invisible g in "host" < 1331341516 497425 :oklofok!~oklopol@40.Red-83-33-112.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i made a lisp of some sort once and botted it here < 1331341568 368854 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you did < 1331341578 924554 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but nothing holds a candle to zepto < 1331341586 449378 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1331341683 525884 :MDude!~fyrc@67.232.225.249 JOIN :#esoteric < 1331341684 697628 :oklofok!~oklopol@40.Red-83-33-112.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i think i fucked up lexical scoping to some extent (i learned about closures like halfway through my little project and so it became a bit of a mess) < 1331341744 61555 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the host is c++ templates :) < 1331341758 174625 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a script that translates s-expressions into template syntax, and a template eval that evaluates them < 1331341776 895294 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :where the Env contains the current stackframe pointer and a heap of values that can be mutated by assigning variables < 1331341798 448243 :oklofok!~oklopol@40.Red-83-33-112.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you tell us you're making a lisp interpreter, but you don't mention its polterchrist is c++ templates? < 1331341822 860282 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :polterchrist? < 1331341825 394313 :oklofok!~oklopol@40.Red-83-33-112.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't that like telling us you're taking a bath and not mentioning you're bathing in a WORLD FULL OF SNAKES < 1331341835 340796 :oklofok!~oklopol@40.Red-83-33-112.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: *host < 1331341900 457887 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: oh right i remember < 1331341909 139568 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: it's the art of subtlety < 1331341925 917526 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote you tell us you're making a lisp interpreter, but you don't mention its polterchrist is c++ templates? isn't that like telling us you're taking a bath and not mentioning you're bathing in a WORLD FULL OF SNAKES < 1331341934 963921 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :821) you tell us you're making a lisp interpreter, but you don't mention its polterchrist is c++ templates? isn't that like telling us you're taking a bath and not mentioning you're bathing in a WORLD FULL OF SNAKES < 1331341939 709069 :oklofok!~oklopol@40.Red-83-33-112.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure polterchrist is clear without context < 1331341945 939350 :oklofok!~oklopol@40.Red-83-33-112.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or with context < 1331341978 989112 :oklofok!~oklopol@40.Red-83-33-112.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this concept of subtlety intrigues me < 1331342007 29476 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :context, weak, etc. < 1331342111 561540 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what's context for? < 1331342125 58091 :oklofok!~oklopol@40.Red-83-33-112.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1331342125 385297 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ? < 1331342129 314233 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, CPS would probably be a good exercise, never really grokked how to do CPS conversion before < 1331342131 391131 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I see < 1331342136 223011 :oklofok!~oklopol@40.Red-83-33-112.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's one more than the previous < 1331342167 127204 :oklofok!~oklopol@40.Red-83-33-112.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: i hear it's easy < 1331342196 221728 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :otoh, compilation might also be nice... I'm already meta-programming in some sense, so how hard could *that* be? < 1331342363 575957 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: i suspect the best you'll be able to get is bytecode < 1331342373 749832 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you just mean batch compilation < 1331342479 957538 :oklofok!~oklopol@40.Red-83-33-112.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :night. < 1331342601 382112 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just mentioned #esoteric in #lisp < 1331342602 965666 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brace < 1331342615 875739 :oklofok!~oklopol@40.Red-83-33-112.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::O < 1331342621 89602 :oklofok!~oklopol@40.Red-83-33-112.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :why????? < 1331342626 253139 :oklofok!~oklopol@40.Red-83-33-112.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1331342626 623752 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because he's a n idiot < 1331342628 529094 :oklofok!~oklopol@40.Red-83-33-112.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :night < 1331342643 690595 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a nidiot < 1331342648 698862 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounsd like a pokemon :/ < 1331342654 662796 :oklofok!~oklopol@40.Red-83-33-112.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :he tries his best < 1331342674 79372 :oklofok!~oklopol@40.Red-83-33-112.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: you should really try my best sometime, i think it's better < 1331342681 9001 :oklofok!~oklopol@40.Red-83-33-112.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but don't try elliott's best < 1331342689 70236 :oklofok!~oklopol@40.Red-83-33-112.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd just get scared and pee yourself < 1331342694 10864 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or not. Only person who was interested in olsner's thing: First thing asked is if it was CL or just a thing with parentheses < 1331342697 969942 :oklofok!~oklopol@40.Red-83-33-112.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just way out of your league < 1331342749 523601 :oklofok!~oklopol@40.Red-83-33-112.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was "or not" a response to? < 1331342766 713309 :oklofok!~oklopol@40.Red-83-33-112.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are so many ridiculous claims here that i just can't choose! < 1331342789 879647 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whether anyone would actually be visiting here due to my mention of #esoteric in #lisp < 1331342822 434387 :oklofok!~oklopol@40.Red-83-33-112.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh to your own message < 1331342836 398429 :oklofok!~oklopol@40.Red-83-33-112.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was not on my list, i decided you chna < 1331342838 720778 :oklofok!~oklopol@40.Red-83-33-112.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :dkjfskd < 1331342853 777971 :oklofok!~oklopol@40.Red-83-33-112.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :changed your personality and told me and elliott to fuck ourselves in a subtle way. < 1331342901 632256 :oklofok!~oklopol@40.Red-83-33-112.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i meant to say go fuck ourselves, but that looks good too < 1331342924 4156 :oklofok!~oklopol@40.Red-83-33-112.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :has a more literal feel to it in my tired eyes < 1331342931 135381 :oklofok!~oklopol@40.Red-83-33-112.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm really going to sleep now < 1331342947 677789 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Night < 1331342953 505190 :oklofok!~oklopol@40.Red-83-33-112.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :night < 1331342959 162735 :oklofok!~oklopol@40.Red-83-33-112.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so night < 1331343289 630822 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : Sgeo: nihil novi sub sole. There was something like that long ago, that added a bit of crazy broken lisp to C++ in form of templates < 1331343852 418961 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm already compiling a whole program to evaluate a lisp expression, might as well compile into a convoluted series of c++ functions instead of evaluating into text output? < 1331344013 450273 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: oh, i see < 1331344019 3689 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :compiling to C++ with metaprogramming < 1331344019 190282 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cute < 1331344038 623455 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like... too close to the stated purpose for comfort < 1331345327 632050 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1331348121 568255 :MSleep!~fyrc@67.232.225.249 JOIN :#esoteric < 1331348338 632669 :MDude!~fyrc@67.232.225.249 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1331348675 547604 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-240-18.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1331348780 947069 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1331348792 378253 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-233-36.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1331348870 13845 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1331348879 384721 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi elliott < 1331348919 120036 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1331348933 53718 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :research I would be interested in: how long it takes for loud to stop sounding loud < 1331348961 14413 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g., after turning up some music from "normal" volume levels to make it loud, how long does it take (assuming the volume of the music stays the same) for that new level to start sounding normal? < 1331348963 567695 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: im not. please read what i said more carefully before you ask stupid questions. < 1331349034 187518 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: i did; you clarified that it was actually a bijection between two countable sets, except the topic was whether you could use a method that requires an isomorphism to a specific _uncountable_ set < 1331349037 596979 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'm still confused. < 1331349052 667644 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: uh.. im pretty sure that's not what the topic was. < 1331349113 140110 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Why don't you count that set, if it's so countable? < 1331349138 160800 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the question, iinm, was why the same game couldnt be played with types in general, and i said that for countable types, you should be able to use an isomorphism to do it, provided the type and the extension of the predicate were both of the same countable cardinality < 1331349144 552819 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Equality for Eq a => (Nat -> Bool) -> a [is decidable]." -> "There aren't any countable types that aren't convertible to Nat -> Bool, are there?" -> "yes" -> "so shouldn't we be able to apply the method in the article to any countable set?" -> "No; you need a isomorphism." -> "it is an isomorphism [if you restrict one of the sets]" < 1331349180 715447 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is true, but still means it's... not the isomorphism required < 1331349252 38970 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is confused, not hatin'. < 1331349291 274986 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1331349292 10261 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont see why you're confused < 1331349325 48582 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric : There aren't any countable types that aren't convertible to Nat -> Bool, are there? < 1331349329 588849 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric : i believe this is true < 1331349347 545785 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :followed by a discussion of why. < 1331349352 766169 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, i acknowledge you made no untrue statements < 1331349353 421061 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont see where the issue is. < 1331349360 397863 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you made irrelevant statements, at least < 1331349371 540517 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, "it *is* an isomorphism" is what confuses me < 1331349381 422616 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because, yes, it's an isomorphism, but not the isomorphism the parent poster was talking about < 1331349397 63256 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1331349401 559666 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure it is < 1331349417 957077 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a countble type T is iso to some Nat -> Bool < 1331349420 542411 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wheres the problem < 1331349464 635438 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and he seemed to agree that i was saying the same thing he was < 1331349486 969572 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"to some Nat -> Bool"? < 1331349491 934302 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1331349492 360665 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is "some"? < 1331349493 122413 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in < 1331349505 89508 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's subset, the whole point is that you need an isomorphism the whole way < 1331349511 49868 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall T : *. exists f : Nat -> Bool. T ~ Ext f < 1331349542 822380 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :to be able to use the equality for (Eq a => (Nat -> Bool) -> a) < 1331349550 242768 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :w/e, this is going in circles < 1331349578 592162 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :honestly i dont see how this relates to that type -- but thats ok < 1331349657 140312 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because... < 1331349659 24783 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the post that roconnor linked to doesnt use that type anywhere in it < 1331349673 310806 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i didnt search it in detail for something that connects to it < 1331349685 509187 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but im not sure how that could be inhabited at all, honestly < 1331349699 187576 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Empty where deriving (Eq) < 1331349716 594393 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, ignoring a function that just loops < 1331349756 358670 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but non-termination is sort of contra the whole point of infinite tests in finite time < 1331349819 55064 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not forall a. < 1331349829 43159 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :equality is decidable for ((Nat -> Bool) -> a) if Eq a < 1331349872 451415 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fixing a? < 1331349913 481058 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a, Eq a -> decidable (equality_for ((Nat -> Bool) -> a))) < 1331349931 120863 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1331349933 742284 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1331349938 7677 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then i think what he's saying is valid < 1331349957 656211 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not in haskell < 1331349963 691895 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cause you cant use haskell for it < 1331349975 923359 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nat -> Bool <=> Countable Types < 1331349986 743348 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no need for any special type hackery if what he's saying is possible. < 1331349988 177246 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just functions. < 1331350014 818008 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, i just mean if you want to state it in haskell at all < 1331350018 849617 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1331350028 573827 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :im not sure if what he's saying is _useful_ of course < 1331350059 625706 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it just means you have a function roughly f : Set -> A, and you can test if it's equal to g : Set -> A if A has decidable equalityu < 1331350064 643752 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know why i'm bothering trying to divine the meaning of words uttered by the creator of http://esolangs.org/wiki/Absurd_Brainfuck. < 1331350105 719928 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1331350176 252222 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, ok, i don't understand any more now, but i understand the other posters less to the degree that i'm more confused in general rather than specifically at things yous aid < 1331350180 410772 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*you said < 1331350197 246309 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hmms at Absurd Brainfuck < 1331350217 976444 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't hmm at it, it's meaningless < 1331350231 597504 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :even ais523 thinks it's meaningless, and he invented Feather < 1331350728 298873 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lolol < 1331350862 698091 :MSleep!~fyrc@67.232.225.249 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1331351338 858080 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-252-86.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1331351404 184492 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey pikhq, fix my BitTorrent. < 1331351425 767060 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-252-86.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, exactly, is your problem? < 1331351454 583979 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The 1s are coming in as 0.5s and the 0s, they ain't comin' in at all! < 1331351466 9727 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-252-86.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you tell me, I can only advise that you create a pentagram of chicken blood and recite from the Book of Unix. < 1331351476 800984 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually the problem is that it refuses to upload, but I have my suspicions as to unfixable reasons for that and have tried all the obvious things. < 1331351495 789315 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That is, not only will it not seed -- instead being "Idle" or "Stalled" -- but when downloading, the upload speed never rises above absolute zero.) < 1331351534 619468 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-240-18.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1331351599 133966 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-252-86.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suggest you recite from the Book of RFC, 793:15-52. < 1331351605 570045 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-252-86.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :On a more serious note, I got nothing. < 1331351612 555762 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your NAT must be too chilly... hump your router. < 1331351614 238220 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-252-86.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which client? Transmission? < 1331351639 744889 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-252-86.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doing that trackerless? I seem to recall us having trouble doing that trackerless as the initial seed in the past. < 1331351643 324657 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Transmission -- and I've forwarded the port it's using on both TCP and UDP, and it confirms it's forwarded (though oddly the first check has a tendency to come back closed -- but then immediately say "open" if I try again -- and it doesn't always do this). < 1331351652 128047 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not trackerless; in fact, DHT is turned off. < 1331351659 222735 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-252-86.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Weird*. < 1331351702 285337 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I half-suspect the cause is that the torrents are excellently-seeded enough that the network don't want any of my shitty bandwidth, but from what I know of BitTorrent, that only explains why it wouldn't *seed*, not why it wouldn't upload when downloading, even at a trickle. < 1331351713 530559 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-252-86.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for those too lazy to figure out WTF I referred to, RFC 793, pages 15-52, is the functional specification of TCP) < 1331351730 973829 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer the imperative specification. < 1331351752 200894 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-252-86.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is pages 53-5300. :P < 1331351861 571126 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, it's very annoying. :( < 1331352593 317234 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I build that computer, I have some idea, that any game with cutscenes and credit roll, should recommend, that they can be skipped by pushing the next track button, repeated by pushing the previous track button, and paused by pushing the pause button. Do you have different idea? < 1331352605 143226 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(But it is only recommendation; not requirement) < 1331354429 778210 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1331357057 608464 :FraterNPLS!~Ouroboros@98.151.159.214 JOIN :#esoteric < 1331357080 351967 :FraterNPLS!~Ouroboros@98.151.159.214 PART :#esoteric < 1331357836 45241 :MDude!~fyrc@67.232.225.249 JOIN :#esoteric < 1331357865 65629 :MDude!~fyrc@67.232.225.249 NICK :MSleep < 1331361656 530607 :MoALTz_!~no@host-92-2-139-82.as43234.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1331361875 381215 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@078088180231.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1331363269 730767 :MoALTz!~no@host-92-8-228-126.as43234.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1331363548 401455 :MoALTz!~no@host-92-8-228-126.as43234.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1331363606 969002 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1331364418 486096 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1331364442 896959 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1331364447 686362 :MoALTz!~no@host-92-8-149-76.as43234.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1331364618 279756 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1331365283 363647 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1331366264 837976 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1331366983 259521 :Slereah_!x@ANantes-259-1-190-214.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1331367000 733153 :Slereah!~jackal@ANantes-259-1-206-195.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1331367797 212626 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1331367802 861356 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1331370898 87524 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Quit: This is not a pipe; trying something else. < 1331370997 669637 :kmkr!bcee598c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.188.238.89.140 JOIN :#esoteric < 1331371033 925750 :kmkr!bcee598c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.188.238.89.140 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi. i've finished a new brainfuck program, haven't made a bigger one in quite some time: < 1331371040 282815 :kmkr!bcee598c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.188.238.89.140 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.73b.org/programs/golden.b < 1331371058 457267 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.allowe.com/Larry/1questions.htm < 1331371062 946494 :kmkr!bcee598c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.188.238.89.140 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it prints the golden ration, never terminating. gets gradually slower. < 1331371078 676513 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fancy < 1331371079 584881 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm extremely upset that this system fell out of use. < 1331371182 963723 :kmkr!bcee598c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.188.238.89.140 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, if anyone tries it, tell here how far you get. i've ran it to about 400 digits < 1331371194 796425 :kmkr!bcee598c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.188.238.89.140 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*run < 1331371201 785331 :kmkr!bcee598c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.188.238.89.140 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have problems with that particular word..... < 1331371364 698155 :kmkr!bcee598c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.188.238.89.140 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, interesting work on qdeql oerjan < 1331371421 791562 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks! i just now wrapped up the description a bit. < 1331371520 656633 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this software pirated? < 1331371537 817431 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What software? < 1331371553 494858 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...Leisure Suit Larry, I guess? < 1331371590 652385 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, just wikipediaed < 1331371599 773006 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently it was an age verification thing < 1331371601 934759 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cute. < 1331371602 288824 :kmkr!bcee598c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.188.238.89.140 PRIVMSG #esoteric :always great to see a language being shown to be more powerful than first assumed < 1331371627 795672 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmkr, Brainfuck is more powerful than as powerful as computers are believed to be able to be? < 1331371640 809780 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1331371641 98064 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...wow at that sentence < 1331371656 912456 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thinks Sgeo needs a swat just about now -----### < 1331371657 722471 :kmkr!bcee598c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.188.238.89.140 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was talking about qdeql < 1331371666 304413 :kmkr!bcee598c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.188.238.89.140 PRIVMSG #esoteric :about oerjan's qdeql turing-completeness proof < 1331371672 519948 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, monqy Phantom_Hoover did you see the update from before? < 1331371680 813756 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The second grouping of new A6I2 < 1331372243 176008 :oklofok!~oklopol@40.Red-83-33-112.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan has done something awesome again? < 1331372248 365544 :oklofok!~oklopol@40.Red-83-33-112.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: how come u so awesome? < 1331372292 394420 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1331372500 492053 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Best. Quit Message. Ever. < 1331372508 453750 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: bad judgement. < 1331372541 244903 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, that's been monqy's quit message since forever. < 1331372571 72170 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: well it's not like there's a reason to change the Best. Quit Message. Ever. < 1331372986 780968 :kmkr!bcee598c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.188.238.89.140 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1331373294 580257 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1331373504 916508 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1331373860 627632 :oklofok!~oklopol@40.Red-83-33-112.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: where do i get me some of that bad judgement? < 1331373877 152371 :oklofok!~oklopol@40.Red-83-33-112.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but before you answer, i'm going offline for 24 hours < 1331373880 913152 :oklofok!~oklopol@40.Red-83-33-112.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or more < 1331373884 579228 :oklofok!~oklopol@40.Red-83-33-112.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net QUIT : < 1331374548 424441 :tzxn3!~tzxn3@cpc5-mapp3-0-0-cust464.12-4.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1331374578 425318 :hagb4rd!~hagb4rd@koln-d9329f18.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1331374716 49339 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think we don't sell that. < 1331374755 331076 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course not, we pay people to take it. < 1331374781 33668 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :then we make it up in volume. < 1331375440 613664 :derdon!~derdon@p5DE8B332.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1331377115 305491 :MoALTz_!~no@host-92-8-149-76.as43234.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1331377304 908014 :MoALTz!~no@host-92-8-149-76.as43234.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1331378020 490063 :MoALTz_!~no@host-92-8-149-76.as43234.net QUIT :Quit: brb < 1331378036 458176 :MoALTz!~no@host-92-8-149-76.as43234.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1331378648 885649 :cheater!~cheater@ip-80-226-24-15.vodafone-net.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1331378717 660760 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-80-173.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1331378814 677868 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-80-173.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1331378839 196154 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Goodbye < 1331379724 554219 :nortti!~chatzilla@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1331380281 223321 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-80-173.as13285.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1331381917 561218 :MoALTz_!~no@host-92-2-121-162.as43234.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1331382081 310799 :MoALTz__!~no@host-92-8-236-182.as43234.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1331382104 991684 :MoALTz!~no@host-92-8-149-76.as43234.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1331382232 963049 :MoALTz_!~no@host-92-2-121-162.as43234.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1331382456 990326 :MoALTz__!~no@host-92-8-236-182.as43234.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1331383027 201668 :MoALTz!~no@host-92-2-126-250.as43234.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1331383079 461400 :MoALTz!~no@host-92-2-126-250.as43234.net QUIT :Client Quit < 1331383255 992534 :MSleep!~fyrc@67.232.225.249 NICK :MDude < 1331383262 489539 :MoALTz!~no@host-92-2-126-250.as43234.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1331383289 968542 :derdon!~derdon@p5DE8B332.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1331383588 678183 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1331383852 424584 :MoALTz!~no@host-92-2-126-250.as43234.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1331385120 807825 :MoALTz!~no@host-92-8-147-162.as43234.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1331388736 20058 :Twirt199!daba12f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.218.186.18.246 JOIN :#esoteric < 1331388797 75467 :Twirt199!daba12f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.218.186.18.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :* esos Kernel v1.0 * < 1331389246 714032 :Twirt199!daba12f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.218.186.18.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :INIT: krnld.p1x (sata001:1:32768-32958) < 1331389299 602172 :Twirt199!daba12f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.218.186.18.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :INIT: cmm.p1l (32959-33655) < 1331389352 897263 :Twirt199!daba12f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.218.186.18.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :INIT: kash.p1x (33656-33989) < 1331389409 889672 :Twirt199!daba12f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.218.186.18.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :INIT: setup.sh (33990-33999) < 1331389459 191985 :Twirt199!daba12f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.218.186.18.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :INIT: setup.p1x (34000-34568) < 1331389496 61146 :Twirt199!daba12f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.218.186.18.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Setup Options: * < 1331389517 273215 :Twirt199!daba12f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.218.186.18.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Install txedit? (y/n) < 1331389616 700189 :Twirt199!daba12f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.218.186.18.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Install AAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!! compiler? (y/n) < 1331389659 8287 :Twirt199!daba12f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.218.186.18.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Install Befunge? (Compiler/Interpreter) < 1331389682 699193 :Twirt199!daba12f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.218.186.18.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Install Brainfuck? (Compiler/Interpreter) < 1331389705 548102 :Twirt199!daba12f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.218.186.18.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Install CPL compiler? (y/n) < 1331389724 19905 :Twirt199!daba12f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.218.186.18.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1331389755 398498 :Twirt199!daba12f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.218.186.18.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Creating partition table at sata001:1... < 1331389836 511615 :Twirt199!daba12f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.218.186.18.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Copying krnld.p1x... < 1331389856 100119 :Twirt199!daba12f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.218.186.18.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Copying cmm.p1l... < 1331389866 982612 :Twirt199!daba12f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.218.186.18.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Copying kash.p1x... < 1331389887 252575 :Twirt199!daba12f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.218.186.18.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Copying aa!.p1x < 1331389941 455596 :Twirt199!daba12f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.218.186.18.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Copying bfngc.p1x.... < 1331389945 380182 :Twirt199!daba12f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.218.186.18.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Copying < 1331389956 152561 :Twirt199!daba12f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.218.186.18.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bfngi.p1x.... < 1331389975 655238 :Twirt199!daba12f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.218.186.18.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1331389989 833420 :Twirt199!daba12f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.218.186.18.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Rebooting * < 1331389992 592186 :Twirt199!daba12f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.218.186.18.246 QUIT : < 1331390935 119409 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1331391473 492874 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-80-173.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1331391483 598362 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-80-173.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1331391731 216498 :MDude!~fyrc@67.232.225.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi < 1331391982 742960 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-80-173.as13285.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1331394438 406420 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-252-86.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1331394443 701904 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-242-28.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1331395736 842645 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1331396124 441775 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1331396134 457601 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Max SendQ exceeded < 1331396160 473150 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1331397202 969819 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1331398015 181189 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-242-13.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1331398051 430835 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-242-28.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1331398933 91346 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.17/2009122204] < 1331398944 931790 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz JOIN :#esoteric < 1331400719 946369 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-242-13.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1331400731 81270 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-26.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1331400746 550671 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1331400934 27959 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ask ais523 What is our policy on modifying your own talk page comments days after they were posted? If we don't have one, make one up. < 1331400934 215962 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1331400950 280811 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :The policy is death. < 1331401207 319454 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://web.archive.org/web/20110606223705/http://geocities.com/r_e_s_01/subleq/index.htm < 1331401211 36519 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm so glad this was archived! < 1331401225 989270 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Best part: "The GeoCities site you were looking for may have been preserved in the Internet Archive's Wayback Machine. To find out, visit Archive.org and enter the site's web address in the field provided." < 1331402139 431084 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Talk:Linear_bounded_automaton Hypothesis: Any wiki conversation involving Oleg and (oerjan or r.e.s.) is a completely realistic simulation of banging your head against a wall repeatedly. < 1331402191 392947 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1331402351 81205 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi monqy < 1331402583 316126 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1331403223 107663 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi monqy < 1331403261 520321 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1331403308 791762 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi monqy < 1331404237 576574 :MSleep!~fyrc@67.232.225.249 JOIN :#esoteric < 1331404467 835438 :MDude!~fyrc@67.232.225.249 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1331404754 20908 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1331404872 290842 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.O it's not on reocities < 1331404914 415711 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lots of things aren't. < 1331404940 797394 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably Archive Team or the IA have the largest geocities archive. < 1331404949 909654 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Archive Team's only comes in batch torrent form, though. < 1331405612 852070 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks like the Archive Team's torrent is actually pretty decomposable. I'm downloading the 400MB manifests now. < 1331405621 461466 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then I can check from those if the actual files exist. < 1331405735 180491 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Enjoy your fossils! < 1331405870 865015 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, gotta revive subleq X-P < 1331405967 321599 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Or some random subleq page anyway) < 1331406226 720725 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bahahah, just discovered that the title of GeoCities pages is still "GeoCities: Get a web site with easy-to-use site building tools." < 1331406230 322312 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Way to lie, Yahoo! < 1331406374 374228 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why the fuck did they even shut it down < 1331406390 162295 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet the money they're saving they paid ten times over in bandwidth bills as everyone scrambled to mirror it < 1331406399 461188 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh < 1331406535 176787 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Welp, geocities.com/r_e_s_01 is lost to the universe. < 1331406597 318280 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@078088180231.elblag.vectranet.pl QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1331406622 522639 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Friendship: :( < 1331406626 949090 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's ungood. < 1331406784 834058 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any other geocities sites you want me to check for so long as I've got the manifests? < 1331406849 574059 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uhh... probably, but I can't think of any :P < 1331406852 726125 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's that wossname. < 1331406863 576903 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Friendship: http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALinkSearch&target=*.geocities.com&namespace= < 1331406866 252501 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :All'o these < 1331406975 701835 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://it.geocities.com/tonibin/ is linked from Antonio Maschio // fetching < 1331406989 687344 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Station/2266/tarpit/magenta.html is linked from Magenta // on reocities < 1331407010 584083 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yah, I reocitified that one. < 1331407015 669432 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.geocities.com/brainsub is linked from Talk:Brainfuck // dead < 1331407036 308373 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Friendship: OTOH http://web.archive.org/web/20091027000829/http://it.geocities.com/tonibin/ has it, so you might not need to bother. < 1331407045 79694 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But mayhaps it will have a more fuller mirror. < 1331407136 437 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.geocities.com/connorbd/varaq/varaq.pl is linked from Var'aq // seems to be on archive.org < 1331407149 953352 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to be having an oddly large amount of reddit conversations with lutusp of late. < 1331407159 165476 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll only mention the problem ones actually X-D < 1331407210 109322 :kmc!~keegan@c-24-130-174-20.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1331407214 431180 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineffable_qualtagh is lost to the universe < 1331407261 374870 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :rip ineffable_qualtagh < 1331407263 174483 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :nthern is lost to the universe < 1331407283 686562 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Friendship: P.S. A great way of saying "lost to the universe" is to put {{deadlink}} markers on all of the links :P < 1331407377 962601 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm already goin' way out of my way here, do it yourself! < 1331407383 330816 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fetching qpliu < 1331407468 948481 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll do it... LATER. < 1331407522 696364 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :stelokim is lost to the universe. < 1331407525 143817 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :DONE < 1331407548 397394 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK now put them on codu.org. < 1331407703 155896 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done going through the list... < 1331407705 100647 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not downloading ... < 1331407775 808855 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh :P < 1331408058 574782 :kmc!~keegan@c-24-130-174-20.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1331408778 980263 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic has internally-consistent time travel. < 1331408789 324989 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Officially greatest show ever. < 1331408911 120610 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, javascript only has floating points right? No integers? < 1331408918 796905 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or am I confusing it with some other language? < 1331408944 743237 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes and no. It only presents doubles, but all implementations optimize to 32-bit ints when possible. < 1331408949 377167 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well okay < 1331408962 991944 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Friendship, how do you deal with bitwise operations (if you should need to use that)? < 1331409033 534972 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has bitwise operations builtin, they always treat numbers as 32-bit ints. < 1331409036 353016 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1331409044 989405 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(So truncate if necessary) < 1331409047 814521 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1331409129 569295 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :completely unrelated: Does anyone know if WLAN access points that varies the power output depending on the environment (to save power) does so for the beacon frames as well? < 1331409780 61867 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :urgh, in LUA if you have a function foo(a,b,c) then calling foo(1,2) will silently end up calling foo(1,2,nil), also foo(1,2,3,4) will silently drop the excess argument. < 1331409786 340455 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :err Lua* < 1331409828 309270 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : (So truncate if necessary) < 1331409837 466622 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But doubles can represent values >2^32! < 1331409842 173282 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*>= < 1331409848 1400 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, they obviously end up truncated < 1331409851 618503 :MoALTz!~no@host-92-8-147-162.as43234.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1331409873 184953 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what is more interesting is if a double can represent all 32-bit integers exactly. I'm not sure that is the case. < 1331409910 344748 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might be < 1331409933 702702 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can. < 1331409961 906363 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, good < 1331410228 369773 :MoALTz!~no@host-92-8-254-67.as43234.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1331410309 201029 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: They can represent 52-bit ints, but the bitwise ops in JS truncate to 32. < 1331410476 332105 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rite. < 1331410487 403248 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :They can represent beyond that, can't they, just imprecisely? :p < 1331410556 117480 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1331410561 483568 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're precise up to 52-bits. < 1331410578 486843 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's more than what I would have expected. < 1331410652 555399 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs181243217.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Floats go to 23 bits, doubles to 52, and x87's 80-bit extended doubles to 64. < 1331410682 795997 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1331410692 769811 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1331410797 317734 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-26.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, x86 has native 64-bit arithmetic? < 1331410805 793192 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1331410896 129565 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, is there an instruction to convert from floating point to integer though (or is that done in software)? And if so is it only 32-bit or is it 64-bit? < 1331410928 243288 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't JS call of foo(a,b,c) of the form foo(1,2) silently call foo(1,2,undefined) too? (And foo(1,2,3,4) drop the argument, too.) < 1331410933 590152 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, basically what happens on a 32-bit x86 if you do (long long)myLongDouble < 1331410943 476927 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in C that is) < 1331410956 820360 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yes, but it doesn't "drop" the argument, it's still accessible, it just doesn't have a named parameter < 1331410960 187714 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, possibly < 1331411047 272692 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I dislike such behaviour. Erroring on such helps catch bugs. Doing partial evaluation in the case of too few arguments is obviously okay as well if your type system can track that properly (like Haskell). < 1331411106 708653 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :var x = {}; var y = x.loldoesntexist; function foo(bar) { return bar; }; y = foo(y); // haw haw no errors < 1331411136 236654 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oerjan < 1331411142 829525 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :graue edited, but i don't know if he' seen the qdeql thing < 1331411149 547726 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Doesn't JS call of foo(a,b,c) of the form foo(1,2) silently call foo(1,2,undefined) too? (And foo(1,2,3,4) drop the argument, too.) < 1331411155 303708 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Friendship, yeah lua makes undefined variables behave as if they were defined to nil, so similar. Quite annoying in either case. < 1331411156 378362 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Youc an tell teh difference with "arguments". < 1331411168 223553 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*typos < 1331411175 592520 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :lots of them < 1331411189 919919 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi hih hi < 1331411196 748584 :Canadarm2!~area@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 QUIT :Quit: - < 1331411203 783572 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: There is a "store integer" FPU opcode (FIST, FISTP) and it seems to go up to mem64 (for FISTP) in x86-32 also, according to some random instruction set references. (The only "official" PDF ones I have are x86-64-age.) < 1331411221 868041 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the long arm of canada < 1331411406 948615 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Though fistp rounds according to the current rounding mode, so it's not exactly suitable for (long long)d, unless the compiler bothers to (possibly) change the rounding mode to truncating, then store, then restore the mode. < 1331411436 192458 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1331411461 60213 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1331411484 885807 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(fistp 'fist) => T < 1331411683 92982 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-26.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1331412002 369213 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Oh, there's also FISTTP m64int "Store Integer with Truncation" opcode. It uses the "chop" mode implicitly, independent of current mode. So that's presumably what it would do. < 1331412044 829176 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ echo 'long long f(double d) { return d; }' | gcc -m32 -masm=intel -x c -o tmp.s -S -; grep -i fist tmp.s < 1331412047 829856 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric : fistp QWORD PTR [ebp-24] < 1331412109 987174 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ah < 1331412137 671610 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, huh, it uses fistp? not fisttp? < 1331412153 292259 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems to fiddle with the mode. < 1331412158 186479 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe there's a reason. < 1331412172 351433 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably faster or something. Bloody CISC < 1331412183 165663 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least the fistp is surrounded with fldcw "Load x87 FPU Control Word". < 1331412189 150721 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1331412207 972559 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION keeps tweaking that bf2qdeql table slightly < 1331412221 323846 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, btw what is up with -; ? < 1331412243 575242 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Use stdin". < 1331412248 542514 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Needs -x c so it knows the language. < 1331412258 317106 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :where is the pipe from gcc to grep though? < 1331412266 788912 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :something isn't right in that line... < 1331412280 901149 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It writes that to tmp.c; didn't dare to try outputting to stdout too. < 1331412284 908035 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait I'm just tired < 1331412286 1591 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it works, maybe it doesn't. < 1331412291 432802 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm so -; is parsed as - ; ? < 1331412293 349807 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :by bash < 1331412295 838883 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is surprising < 1331412322 565082 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :; is a command separator no matter where. Well, except when quoted or escaped, I guess. < 1331412329 283409 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I read it as "-;" being passed to gcc, that is what confused me < 1331412340 464882 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least libbfd IIRC can't write binaries into stdout. But maybe assembler source would've worked. I mean, it has that "use pipes" thing too. < 1331412360 720039 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway I did find out why it uses "fistp": because "fisttp" is a SSE3 instruction. < 1331412380 137327 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Funny that they bothered to add a x87 FPU thing in SSE. < 1331412399 62312 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: It's a very pretty table. Can't say I have a clue what it means, though. < 1331412433 226240 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1331412464 63971 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: $ echo 'long long f(double d) { return d; }' | gcc -m32 -march=core2 -masm=intel -x c -o - -S - | grep -i fist < 1331412467 563417 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric : fisttp QWORD PTR [ebp-16] < 1331412468 565443 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that makes sense. < 1331412475 34722 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Also: now with pipes all the way down.) < 1331412479 497683 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well it tells you how to translate each bf command into qdeql, of course! < 1331412555 63351 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly a little succinctly for comfort. < 1331412637 289195 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, heh < 1331412642 85391 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-26.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1331412660 798948 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, actually gcc might end up using a temp file unless you pass -pipe I guess < 1331412672 686491 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure if it actually gets to that stage in the compilation here though < 1331412674 224336 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :For -S? < 1331412676 91352 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, pipes as fas as the eye can see. < 1331412682 508995 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I don't think it would for -S ... < 1331412683 76211 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Tried "-march=native" first, forgot that this age-old Athlon X2 won't do anything as fancy as SSE3. < 1331412690 389124 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/fas/far/ < 1331412701 38549 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Friendship, it could do -S by disassembling I guess? < 1331412710 705500 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway gcc runs internal processes very early on iirc < 1331412722 50803 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is -pipe not default these days? < 1331412724 809438 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :one is called collect2 iirc, seen it in htop output < 1331412764 39454 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: for example the row for + tells you that in order to increment a brainfuck cell, you need to perform the action - = = in its padding region. this turns the 0 0 0 there into 255 0 0, which tacks onto the end of the data region. (the default action for padding regions simply delete those 0 0 0 instead.) < 1331412765 671383 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :'gcc -v' suggests no files; it only runs cc1 for -S: /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/gcc/x86_64-linux-gnu/4.5.2/cc1 -quiet -v -imultilib 32 - -D_FORTIFY_SOURCE=2 -quiet -dumpbase - -m32 -march=core2 -masm=intel -auxbase-strip - -version -o - -fstack-protector < 1331412796 930773 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ... collect2 is ld X_X < 1331412807 955609 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only temp file it might make is preprocessing. < 1331412815 67927 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what its default preference is for that. < 1331412841 712493 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ok :P < 1331412851 488268 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Friendship, ah < 1331412866 720276 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what happened to collect1. < 1331412886 324079 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :The same thing that happened to bzip1. < 1331412893 864046 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Except not in any way) < 1331412895 621307 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The program collect2 works by linking the program once and looking through the linker output file for symbols with particular names indicating they are constructor functions. If it finds any, it creates a new temporary `.c' file containing a table of them, compiles it, and links the program a second time including that file." < 1331412942 352179 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :("strace -f -e open gcc ... 2>&1 >/dev/null | grep open" suggests even more forcefully no temporary files.) < 1331412968 291058 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, augh, all that to support C++? < 1331412978 37247 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It does open /proc/meminfo three times, though.) < 1331413009 803440 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I wonder if it is gcc doing that or some part of glibc doing that < 1331413014 793842 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No, that has nothing to do with C++. < 1331413021 304572 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh < 1331413040 567502 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does C++ even have a way to represent global constructors? < 1331413054 178477 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Other than GCC extensions of course) < 1331413129 456583 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Friendship: What does that mean? I mean, does it mean constructors for globals? < 1331413134 56297 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-26.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um, pretty sure yes. < 1331413157 276420 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-26.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :#include \nstd::string foo = "foo"; // Valid C++ < 1331413165 471123 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nonono, that's not what I mean. < 1331413170 806463 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean __attribute__((constructor)) < 1331413176 347850 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :GHC has problems with C++ libraries because it doesn't do constructors for globals, which are implemented as constructors. < 1331413177 257260 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :But not as a GCC extension. < 1331413191 325420 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I believe what fizzie and pikhq are saying is right(?) < 1331413197 417226 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really know, this is just conjecture. < 1331413206 957770 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1331413211 819013 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-26.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Friendship: Ah. < 1331413225 186358 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1331413227 826089 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-26.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Friendship: Not in standard C++. However, __attribute__((constructor)) goes through the same mechanism. < 1331413228 855185 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi elliott < 1331413229 43587 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. < 1331413247 698458 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Friendship: Isn't that just class Singleton { Singleton() { ... } }; Singleton s;, basically? < 1331413265 37858 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-26.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, yes, you could hack it up with a singleton and define casts. < 1331413267 912889 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, public: in there and whatever. < 1331413268 99358 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages < 1331413268 472667 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott asked 3h 25m 32s ago: What is our policy on modifying your own talk page comments days after they were posted? If we don't have one, make one up. < 1331413283 560707 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Ohyeah, you could do that. < 1331413294 52489 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's OK as long as you aren't misleading people as to the context of replies to those comments < 1331413328 220255 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The /proc/meminfo does happen rather late (those are the last three opens, after the .mo message files), so I'd guess GCC, but who knows. < 1331413372 140532 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: even for substantial additions over the course of days? < 1331413404 4366 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the comments haven't been replied to, I don't see a problem < 1331413407 889121 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although you should probably bump the timestamp < 1331413411 631860 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they have, I think; and they didn't < 1331413416 500754 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://p.zem.fi/ztez -- feel free to guesstimate what on earth it's doing. < 1331413448 802546 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Esoteric_Operating_System&diff=next&oldid=30961, http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Esoteric_Operating_System&diff=next&oldid=30962 were the diffs I was wondering about < 1331413610 700413 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I have no idea < 1331413641 358426 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, those mmap in there confuse me too < 1331413648 96178 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean the interleaved ones < 1331413671 266430 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I think it's the buffer into which it reads the meminfo stuff. < 1331413678 424961 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless that is simply due to malloc, but I thought glibc didn't use mmap for malloc unless you used really large allocations < 1331413708 223370 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might use mmap for suitably page-sized allocations too. < 1331413808 910234 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1331413979 930900 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It uses malloc for everything above a few k, I believe. < 1331414057 396209 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you mean that it uses mmap? < 1331414083 793131 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1331414133 852591 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :A mailing list post from 2006-abouts says the mmap/brk threshold is 128K-32M, dynamically selected; they increased it from a fixed 128k for some reason. (The post speaks for memory-zeroing cost, but I'm not sure what that's about.) < 1331414140 932839 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, btw, strange that it got the same address all three times, I would have expected the kernel to randomise the address a bit < 1331414157 509553 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that was then; it might do something else than a single threshold now, for all I know. < 1331414190 21617 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well obviously the kernel has to zero the memory it gives you. If you never release the memory to the kernel there is however no need for that < 1331414221 473409 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, but if you expand the brk it's still requesting new memory from the kernel. < 1331414236 985188 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed, but you might end up reusing the memory < 1331414246 737257 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I suppose it might also take a peek at how much stuff there is in the free-list-equivalent. < 1331414249 824961 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I guess doing mremap is more annoying?) < 1331414262 852995 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-158-191.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1331414290 945479 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-26.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1331414333 954313 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, in that case where it's doing alloc-free-alloc-free-alloc-free (at least what it looks like) it'd certainly make more sense to use memory from the brk side. < 1331414427 527390 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1331414465 363066 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sadly I'm not quite bored enough to go figuring out why it's doing what it's doing. < 1331414471 667221 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf, the torrents 'qp' archive didn't actually contain qpliu ... < 1331414476 731534 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :*torrent's < 1331414543 275876 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ltrace -f with grep open or grep meminfo doesn't match anything, so I can't even check if it's actually calling malloc or what.) < 1331414588 434416 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I would guess it isn't gcc doing it then? Unless gcc is directly calling the system call < 1331414735 623230 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, the manifests in this torrent are totally useless X_X < 1331414749 721797 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Friendship, what torrent= < 1331414752 7615 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/=/?/ < 1331414769 912668 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Geocities. < 1331414774 889068 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1331414869 986629 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-158-191.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, to be fair, it is the direct result of "Ohgodohgod wget -R" < 1331414901 80837 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: NO EXCUSES < 1331414918 801217 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have one page I didn't want that's not in the manifest, and don't have the page I did want that is in the manifest X_X < 1331414984 419873 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl, I'm having a bad headache < 1331414985 615008 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Friendship: [[ < 1331414985 935982 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can download the PATCHED version (recommended): Geocities - The PATCHED Torrent < 1331414986 122682 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :... or the original torrent which had 0.1% corrupted: Geocities - The Torrent + patch (details) < 1331414986 309415 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :]] < 1331414988 600624 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which did you get? < 1331414998 692950 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patched. < 1331415002 936428 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :The original didn't even have seeds. < 1331415008 519423 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, hmm, just corrupted, not "fucked". < 1331415060 989260 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Oh, right; ltrace has a -S too. It calls sysconf(85, ...); suggests that's maybe _SC_PHYS_PAGES or something. < 1331415083 692659 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And then glibc implementation of sysconf ends up doing the meminfo thing.) < 1331415097 996925 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.textfiles.com/underconstruction/mail/ < 1331415487 5281 :Friendship!codu@codu.org TOPIC #esoteric :Roll out the squirrel! We'll have a squirrel of fun! | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ | http://esolangs.org/ has moved servers! < 1331415594 623062 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just remembered I still haven't paid prgmr. < 1331415624 797639 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=SSBPL&curid=8325&diff=31001&oldid=30999 < 1331415628 544790 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :FINALLY an esolang that popes values. < 1331415720 382802 :nortti!~chatzilla@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you pope a value? < 1331415776 129087 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Friendship: i don't think that's a good idea, squirrels are all nuts < 1331415808 457831 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ba-dum* < 1331415810 219844 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papal_conclave < 1331415834 304071 :nortti!~chatzilla@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fix'd that typo < 1331415860 452912 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti: it's easy with cardinal numbers < 1331415861 578383 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU RUINED IT < 1331415885 95540 :nortti!~chatzilla@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliot: should I revert it? < 1331415893 755314 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it's OK; the misspelling of my name makes up for it. < 1331415918 382960 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also you didn't actually fix it, according to recentchanges :P < 1331415959 236570 :nortti!~chatzilla@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. the page says 504 gateway time-out < 1331415997 802384 :nortti!~chatzilla@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :now it is fixed < 1331416011 482161 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it? That's bad. < 1331416044 551195 :nortti!~chatzilla@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It works after I reloaded the page < 1331416115 384289 :derdon!~derdon@p5DE8B332.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1331416312 489445 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-192-147.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1331416327 333386 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-158-191.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1331416535 773963 :MoALTz_!~no@host-92-8-234-161.as43234.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1331416546 945051 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I intentionally post this here and not in code review since I think that there is not exactly a lot of life in the code review section." < 1331416558 293946 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dear everyone: OK, so I'm violating the rules... but you gotta understand, it's for my benefit! < 1331416669 734405 :MoALTz!~no@host-92-8-254-67.as43234.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1331416834 781021 :MoALTz_!~no@host-92-8-234-161.as43234.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1331417049 735168 :MoALTz!~no@host-92-2-142-27.as43234.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1331417070 227101 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1331417376 311321 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Can I, like, pay you to seed my torrents? < 1331417776 751022 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-192-147.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I'm not going to act as a seed box. < 1331417868 291683 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-192-147.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have the HD space to ATM. < 1331417881 4931 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-192-147.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though I could probably profitably remove a lot of utter junk... < 1331417953 554821 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if you can somehow seed from an encrypted file, so that the unencrypted data only ever passes through memory. < 1331417963 328307 :MoALTz_!~no@host-92-2-114-255.as43234.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1331418096 106420 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Honestly, I wouldn't care if it would only upload at 10 kb/s, just so long as it would actually upload. This is incredibly frustrating. < 1331418120 277719 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that wouldn't work in one of those hypothetical systems where memory is really only a cache to the HD, so that it's one address space. < 1331418122 389234 :MoALTz!~no@host-92-2-142-27.as43234.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1331418126 183650 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-192-147.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION needs to buy more drives < 1331418163 777541 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Troll! < 1331418168 831256 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-192-147.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: They're not very hypothetical, they're fairly historical. :) < 1331418227 939266 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Multics is hypothetical, man. < 1331418248 133625 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why did we stop doing that? < 1331418258 126382 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-192-147.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unix. < 1331418394 229514 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1331419360 745519 :MSleep!~fyrc@67.232.225.249 NICK :MDude < 1331419527 660005 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"One of the necessary properties of a proper static type system is type inference." < 1331419533 344263 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Did you know that dependent type systems are improper? < 1331419551 425654 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Others are e.g. structural pattern matching and algebraic datatypes." -- type system features, y'hear. < 1331419553 828955 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I don't see why they can't use type inference to some extent < 1331419570 868916 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, it's undecidable, but that doesn't mean that you can't infer when it /is/ decidable and leave the program to annotate the tricky bits < 1331419585 791704 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and ADTs are totally a type system feature (pattern matching isn't) < 1331419623 86879 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can do ADTs in a dynamic language. < 1331419628 731892 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sort of. < 1331419727 735122 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net TOPIC #esoteric : < 1331419729 764153 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net TOPIC #esoteric :#esoteric < 1331419744 80615 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ack. did i just change the topic? i was trying to check what it was < 1331419744 420814 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1331419751 669224 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*does not know how to use his irc client* < 1331419773 155443 :nortti!~chatzilla@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi TOPIC #esoteric :Roll out the squirrel! We'll have a squirrel of fun! | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ | http://esolangs.org/ has moved servers! < 1331419806 334688 :nortti!~chatzilla@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :graue: what client are you using? < 1331419809 656871 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, #esoteric is a remarkably descriptive topic by our standards :) < 1331419814 397470 :MoALTz_!~no@host-92-2-114-255.as43234.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1331419815 785291 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1331419822 720712 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti: i'm using 'bsfirc' < 1331419833 463513 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :an unfinished irc client that was abandoned by its author like 8 years ago < 1331419837 670763 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :graue: not sure if you saw, but oerjan proved one of your languages TC: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Qdeql < 1331419844 793715 :nortti!~chatzilla@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :graue: why? < 1331419851 953710 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's what i use *shrug* < 1331419854 738358 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, it's graue. < 1331419861 238403 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yeah, i think that's awesome! < 1331419871 705181 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i actually wanted to get to the log website and see if that had been discussed here < 1331419900 772165 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hasn't really been talked about < 1331419909 613640 :MoALTz!~no@host-92-8-152-66.as43234.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1331419912 527127 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :he just said he was wondering about it and linked the program a few days later :P < 1331419922 756041 :nortti!~chatzilla@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :graue: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric < 1331419934 64282 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti: got it, thanks < 1331419983 17672 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's so cool < 1331420002 855745 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :my wrong conclusion about Qdeql's computational class was up on the wiki for like 6 years and 5 months :P < 1331420008 686478 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1331420020 952242 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you figure out what the tables mean, let us know :p < 1331420040 271118 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll keep trying to do that < 1331420051 435635 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the easiest way to get oerjan to prove something is TC is just to say it isn't, if this and http://esolangs.org/wiki/Underload#Underload_minimization are anything to go by < 1331420070 332158 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :awesome < 1331420098 460172 :nortti!~chatzilla@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :wasn't false's TCnes also proven just recently? < 1331420122 569860 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a year ago, looks like < 1331420125 264559 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is amazing to me: http://oerjan.nvg.org/esoteric/qdeql/gen75 < 1331420132 343750 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the qdeql code is massive compared to the bf code < 1331420187 799429 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't imagine it's too fast, either < 1331420228 234513 :nortti!~chatzilla@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well at least it is smaller than underload interpreter in underload that I wrote some time ago < 1331420255 724319 :nortti!~chatzilla@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it didn't use the (code)^ trick < 1331420257 505138 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's not an interpreter, it's just code to load a cell with the constant 75 < 1331420265 677828 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti: you did?! i was gonna write those one day < 1331420270 514103 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should put it on the wiki < 1331420300 120316 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, so does this mean nobody ever managed an infinite loop in Qdeql before now? < 1331420325 929485 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does not < 1331420340 978665 :nortti!~chatzilla@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I lost it when I accidentally used dd if=/dev/urandom of=/dev/hda1 instead of dd if=/dev/urandom of=/dev/hdb1 < 1331420346 389010 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wrote a cat program much shorter than oerjan's BF-converted one: &\*\/\/&/ < 1331420359 476798 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, wait, FSAs can loop forever, silly me... < 1331420392 952511 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti: whoops < 1331420403 976506 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti: how did you encode the program? < 1331420409 440536 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder if i could use oerjan's bf to qdeql converter on kmkr's golden ratio in bf program, and it would actually work < 1331420526 6344 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :cuz i mean, i notice that oerjan's examples are relatively more simple than that < 1331420535 175124 :nortti!~chatzilla@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: If I remember correctly I encoded them with church numerals < 1331420633 479272 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :much easier to verify the correctness of small examples... but it looks like the translation is O(n) < 1331420637 907034 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :size-wise < 1331420643 458704 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it could work < 1331420659 127567 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I helped write an abandoned client once < 1331420660 865795 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :>.> < 1331420689 379756 :cheater_!~cheater@ip-80-226-24-11.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1331420713 394416 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-192-147.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION declares the storage market "fucked up beyond recognition". < 1331420722 797019 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Circe (not the emacs one) < 1331420740 685386 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-192-147.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Near as I can tell, the most cost-efficient data storage is *external* hard drives. < 1331420766 553313 :Lymee!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan JOIN :#esoteric < 1331420775 38290 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-192-147.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :3TB, $169. < 1331420782 331978 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, that's cheap < 1331420809 40923 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i bought a 1TB drive 2 years ago, and still haven't filled it < 1331420814 683871 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1331420818 11226 :Lymee!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan NICK :Madoka-Kaname < 1331420826 406357 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-192-147.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :~ has 75G free here. < 1331420877 576346 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :347G, but would be more if i didn't have tons of backups and stuff stored twice etc < 1331420885 10421 :nortti!~chatzilla@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a 40GB HD in my Apple iBook g4/1.2GHz that is my main computer < 1331421009 293719 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i'm installing a ton of haskell stuff to be able to run BFQdeql.hs < 1331421052 335495 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-192-147.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti: So, what, you'd be satisfied with just an SSD? < 1331421087 35699 :nortti!~chatzilla@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: it isn't a SSDD '-.- < 1331421093 894078 :nortti!~chatzilla@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :*SSD < 1331421163 297060 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, i see the bf->qdeql converter has a catch < 1331421257 622512 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it only allows bf programs a fixed number of cells; which can hold nonnegative integers of unbounded size < 1331421295 4270 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is enough for TC, but not how most BF code is written < 1331421340 646033 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like a minsky machine < 1331421357 955329 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly < 1331421627 173321 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so is unbounded-cell BF with 2 cells TC or does it need 3? i forget < 1331421644 195491 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :unproven i think < 1331421669 855584 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan proved 3 is enough and thinks 2 is very unlikely to be enough < 1331421711 951457 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see < 1331421753 582651 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the 3-cell proof online? < 1331421773 275110 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-192-147.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti: Yes, but it's smaller than common ones. < 1331421809 557393 :nortti!~chatzilla@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I used 10GB HD until summer 2011 < 1331421812 905479 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nm, i see it's on the Collatz function wiki page < 1331421824 662566 :augur!~augur@pool-96-231-126-88.washdc.east.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1331422787 633532 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-68-185.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1331422796 248755 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-68-185.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1331422814 585025 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-68-185.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've just had a thought about something that was overthought 5 years ago, that is, quineless languages. < 1331422826 35693 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1331422857 634950 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-68-185.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is impossible to write a quine in Piet, as the source is an image, and the output is text. < 1331422882 519902 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if the source was an .xpm? < 1331422887 725937 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The output is binary data, is it not? < 1331422898 938679 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :graue: Then you had better learn your IRC client < 1331422902 436199 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt Piet uses Unicode output with unspecified encoding or whatever. < 1331422996 727142 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-68-185.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is not part of Piet's specification to convert the binary data into an image. < 1331423037 133940 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, but your program can print out the binary data corresponding to an image of itself < 1331423062 492643 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-68-185.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It prints binary data which can be converted into an image; it does not print out an image < 1331423070 317056 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: What? < 1331423085 306016 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :By that argument, brainfuck prints binary data which can be converted into a program file; it does not print out a program. < 1331423097 859875 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-68-185.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... < 1331423099 553488 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-68-185.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1331423100 75031 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :A Piet program can perfectly well output a .png bit-identical to the one you run it with. < 1331423107 674689 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a quine. < 1331423125 776538 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-68-185.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was just a thought < 1331423142 798796 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :a quineless language seems kinda trivial to me < 1331423156 769529 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-68-185.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, there's loads of them < 1331423168 320426 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :just specify that all source code files have to begin with a #, and all programs output a ! when they start, or something < 1331423182 596299 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-68-185.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This was all thought out in 2007 < 1331423211 360588 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is that everyone gives trivial counterexamples to the wrong theorem :P < 1331423221 832958 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the right theorem? < 1331423261 21434 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, there's a theorem that amounts to "anything TC can compute its own source code", basically formally saying that every TC language has a quine < 1331423284 686956 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uhhhhhhhhh < 1331423286 206467 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it doesn't say "every TC language has a program that outputs the ASCII source code of itself and nothing else" :P < 1331423299 462088 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1331423445 694236 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :That theorem is either incorrect, or so broadly stated as to be uninteresting ... < 1331423451 920227 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :See http://www.madore.org/~david/computers/quine.html#sec_fp < 1331423534 936622 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This is very simple: for a given program t, consider the program h(t) that prints the listing of t. Obviously this h is computable." <-- wrong < 1331423553 862090 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :"printing" and "computable" are orthogonal concerns. < 1331423580 792191 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh? < 1331423604 992489 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember seeing a language designed to trivially disprove the quine thing, or at least violate an assumption that a naive statement of it might make < 1331423606 223127 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's true; a universal turing machine can't "print" anything < 1331423627 16656 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could probably make some statement about a clearly-non-TC transform over some broad notion of output state, but you'd end up with a theory that's very uninteresting. < 1331423628 396866 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yes < 1331423634 292805 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A language that, if the first character is ", prints the rest of the code, and if it's not ", just runs as though it's a certain non-I/O TC language < 1331423638 696949 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you don't need a notion of "printing" for it to work < 1331423647 47810 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :define "print" as "leave on the tape" or whatever < 1331423674 968776 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, my argument is just that if you do that, then you need a transformation from state to source, and once you define that transformation, everything becomes boring. < 1331423685 948296 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so how do you write a quine in Fractran? < 1331423695 274249 :MoALTz_!~no@host-92-8-146-183.as43234.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1331423739 948652 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :graue: by choosing an appropriate encoding for the final result. (Obviously "appropriate encoding" is the problematic thing there) < 1331423744 332330 :MoALTz!~no@host-92-8-152-66.as43234.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1331423754 372870 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be nice to have a more useful theorem, i agree < 1331423761 845855 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but (afaik) nobody has formally defined "IO-complete" yet < 1331423774 850319 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean... i guess if you could define some sort of 1:1 mapping between fractran programs and single integers, that holds for all valid fractran programs < 1331423801 39608 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-68-185.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's fairly simple to do < 1331423802 207251 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am fairly confident there exists a bijection between lists of pairs of integers and integers :P < 1331423803 255136 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then write a program P that leaves n=mapping(P) < 1331423811 540319 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, obviously < 1331423818 58596 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you could consider that a quine sort of < 1331423820 471312 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :The problem is that once you have a mapping, you can game your mapping to make it dull. < 1331423823 233856 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1331423829 553330 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I map all output states to the original program HAHA I WIN < 1331423841 41307 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not a bijection < 1331423842 712648 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that's not a bijection < 1331423844 536367 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-68-185.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Friendship, that's a silly mapping < 1331423850 47462 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you could still cheat by swapping out certain "easy" pairs < 1331423856 229753 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, OK, you define a simple bij---yeah. < 1331423856 526888 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what you want is some kind of notion of "uniform bijection" < 1331423862 197541 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which doesn't treat any input specially < 1331423921 263524 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is where things get tricky :p < 1331423936 290149 :Friendship!codu@codu.org NICK :RocketJSquirrel < 1331423939 985049 :RocketJSquirrel!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yessssssssssssssssss < 1331423985 224274 :RocketJSquirrel!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I apparently can't stick with a nick recently.