< 1332289035 822457 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1332289361 463541 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1332289431 874654 :derdon!~derdon@p5DE894CF.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1332289503 949598 :derdon!~derdon@pD9E1DC66.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1332289734 754607 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1332292898 215107 :derdon!~derdon@pD9E1DC66.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1332293990 749922 :sully!~sully@bloomy.moroso.emarhavil.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1332294006 923250 :hagb4rd2!~hagb4rd@koln-4db414d0.pool.mediaWays.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1332294173 270409 :hagb4rd!~hagb4rd@koln-4db40fef.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1332297060 408938 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1332297367 536740 :Methead!~jentozw@217.118.64.48 JOIN :#esoteric < 1332297818 627741 :Methead!~jentozw@217.118.64.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :WEIRDEST CHEESE - what is it? < 1332297953 688107 :Methead!~jentozw@217.118.64.48 QUIT : < 1332298127 339628 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi bye < 1332299206 690495 :hagb4rd!~hagb4rd@koln-4db40fef.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION yawns
< 1332299218 353523 :hagb4rd!~hagb4rd@koln-4db40fef.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :really quite today < 1332299440 517071 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-219-2.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1332299466 898374 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-243-164.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1332301229 338051 :hagb4rd!~hagb4rd@koln-4db40fef.pool.mediaWays.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1332301245 949469 :hagb4rd!~hagb4rd@koln-5d81f6a2.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1332301974 924009 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, apt-get update after adding a ppa is in fact a good idea < 1332301988 515144 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the original program was in the main repo < 1332302009 5356 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But an older version < 1332303072 60120 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-243-16.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1332303088 470890 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-219-2.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1332303157 679829 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net NICK :MSleep < 1332304781 533925 :tswett!~tswett@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is "arxiv" properly pronounced like "arfourteen"? < 1332304818 959843 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :the "x" is a chi < 1332304826 71229 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :notice how its capital < 1332304842 624223 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :arΧiv < 1332304884 374514 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :αβγδεζηθικλμνξοπρςστυφχ < 1332304887 455598 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er. < 1332304901 588227 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what I get for typing random Unicode codepoints into my IRC client to find χ. < 1332304911 284961 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Accidentally typed U+A < 1332304914 210330 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice jorb < 1332304959 277624 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't look very random < 1332304966 912610 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alpha beta gamma < 1332304971 900559 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: That's the thing about randomness. < 1332305352 39482 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :suppose we reconstructed Turing from the remains of his corpse and frog DNA (a process known as "Turing-completion"). Jurassic Park tells us such a Turing would be able to switch sexes if the situation called for it. < 1332305388 630533 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :Question: Given this possibility, would Turings, as a species, choose to remain male? or would some choose to switch to catch just for the novelty? < 1332306630 414061 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@078088180231.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1332308581 740398 :hagb4rd!~hagb4rd@koln-5d81f6a2.pool.mediaWays.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1332309626 521567 :hagb4rd!~hagb4rd@koln-4d0b7862.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1332310151 788488 :asiekierka_!~asiekierk@078088180231.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1332310166 793408 :asiekierka_!~asiekierk@078088180231.elblag.vectranet.pl QUIT :Client Quit < 1332310259 472755 :hagb4rd!~hagb4rd@koln-4d0b7862.pool.mediaWays.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1332310308 478775 :hagb4rd!~hagb4rd@koln-4db4e4e4.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1332312489 746411 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-243-16.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sigh* X11. < 1332312541 685278 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :χ11 < 1332312569 448426 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-243-16.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is precisely one way to avoid tearing on X11. < 1332312577 160180 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-243-16.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :OpenGl. < 1332312615 816833 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-243-16.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you do otherwise and *don't* tear, it is only because you're getting lucky. < 1332312627 356290 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-243-16.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And probably not updating the screen often. < 1332312649 772638 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-243-16.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try updating the screen 60 times a second? It'll tear like a mofo. < 1332312804 667550 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-243-16.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My hate for X11 has grown 3 sizes this day. < 1332312945 722417 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs181243217.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about compositing? < 1332312956 878140 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-243-16.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That either tears or is using OpenGL! < 1332312964 638891 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs181243217.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay. < 1332312973 640788 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-243-16.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The composite manager *itself* has to render via X, you know. < 1332312985 974320 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs181243217.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fair enough. < 1332313498 257234 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-243-16.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wayland can't come fast enough. Then maybe my code using SDL would be reasonable, instead of tearing like crazy. < 1332313509 46614 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-243-16.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :As-is, I need to rewrite it to use OpenGL. :( < 1332313550 992405 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about Xv? That's not OpenGL, programs that use it update the screen a lot, and I haven't *noticed* any tearing. < 1332313569 955571 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs181243217.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I notice a lot of tearing with it, but maybe that's just AMD. < 1332313574 465499 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-243-16.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Okay, you either need to use OpenGL or be rendering in a *completely different colorspace*. < 1332313600 483321 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-243-16.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and BTW, the driver support for it is either reasonable or moronic. < 1332313608 246966 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, all the cool kids use OpenGL. < 1332313642 610674 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-243-16.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The proprietary AMD drivers, for instance, do the colorspace conversion to RGB in software, don't vsync, *and* don't even do the colorspace conversion right. < 1332313660 699322 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs181243217.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, that'd explain things. < 1332313705 276585 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-243-16.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the free AMD drivers just route it through OpenGL) < 1332313796 520393 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-243-16.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Just to elaborate: your screen is in the RGB colorspace, with color values of 8-bit red, green, and blue samples. Xv does the YUV colorspace, with color values of 8-bit luminance, U chrominance, and V chrominance. And those values are in the range [16..235] rather than [0..255]. < 1332313808 271244 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know about colorspaces. < 1332313815 720240 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, there's a regular 8-bits-per-sample packed RGB visual in my xvinfo for the "NV05 Video Blitter" adapter, that's not a different colorspace. (The "NV17 Video Texture" adapter doesn't have one, though.) < 1332313832 769107 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-243-16.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why, you might ask? Because broadcasters are utterly mad and hate programmers. < 1332313935 693229 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :No RGB visuals on the "Intel(R) Textured Video". I suppose it's not such a common thing. < 1332313937 380987 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs181243217.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh hey, http://wiki.x.org/wiki/RadeonFeature seems to finally say something decent about Evergreen. Maybe the free drivers are usable nowadays. < 1332313971 222370 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-243-16.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been using them for months. < 1332314004 378512 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-243-16.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :About my only complaint is slightly lower FPS in OpenGL, and a bug that only seems to trigger when I try running a Source game in WINE. < 1332314018 48476 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs181243217.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Last I checked, which was probably several months ago, the Evergreen column was too red for my liking. < 1332314033 102799 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-243-16.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And given that that only even works if you are lucky *anyways*, that's not too big a concern. < 1332314051 293226 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs181243217.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :How's the power saving i.e. fan loudness? < 1332314074 734985 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-243-16.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No noticable difference. < 1332314076 426927 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs181243217.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was one reason to go with the proprietary, for me. < 1332314085 278246 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-243-16.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though, I've got a desktop system. < 1332314089 66723 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs181243217.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Me too. < 1332314109 815434 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs181243217.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Until I start up X, the fan is ridiculously loud. < 1332314125 731714 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs181243217.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, previously, with the free driver. But maybe I'll give it another shot when I have the time. < 1332314146 941024 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-243-16.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've also found that for anything 2D, the free drivers beat the proprietary ones soundly. < 1332314162 477269 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs181243217.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that was the case even several months ago. :-P < 1332314167 117515 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-243-16.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mind you, Flash still looks like shit. < 1332314291 283180 :MoALTz_!~no@host-92-2-131-169.as43234.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1332314450 595052 :MoALTz!~no@host-92-8-158-1.as43234.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1332314738 178898 :hagb4rd!~hagb4rd@koln-4db4e4e4.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi! i need to build a catalog-db storing information associated to any kind of file. neither i want to store any path/adresses nor the files themself, but some kind of a unique identifier (like a checksum). would you recommend any methods (like md5/sha-1 or whatever) when the primary goal is high performance (speed) < 1332314784 412421 :hagb4rd!~hagb4rd@koln-4db4e4e4.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe a totally different idea then a checksum? < 1332314802 323807 :hagb4rd!~hagb4rd@koln-4db4e4e4.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*than < 1332314896 156505 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-228.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1332315069 300733 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-243-16.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1332316034 403332 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xk_XaJ7gE4Q < 1332316589 899708 :hagb4rd!~hagb4rd@koln-4db4e4e4.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1332316958 562198 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1332317078 408399 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@ppp-70-251-232-192.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1332317078 703891 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@ppp-70-251-232-192.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net QUIT :Changing host < 1332317078 865835 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan JOIN :#esoteric < 1332317357 646655 :hagb4rd!~hagb4rd@koln-4db4e4e4.pool.mediaWays.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1332317889 471501 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1332318687 551593 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1332318966 671371 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"By default, Java Ciphers (at least in Sun's implementations) are constructed in what is called Electronic Codebook (ECB) mode." < 1332319841 720502 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1332321053 693205 :cheater!~cheater@p57AEAFF4.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1332321670 684521 :hagb4rd!~hagb4rd@koln-4db43dc9.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1332321872 567812 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/r6idy/inmemory_keyvalue_store_in_c_go_and_python/ < 1332321880 806865 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :This link has so much to do with Haskell! < 1332321940 907970 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Well, it's about the other three languages that exist other than Haskell. < 1332321972 679479 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's relevant! because "it seems Go's RTS implements things similar to GHC's RTS, which means we could get similar performance in Haskell" < 1332321988 97128 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes! < 1332322020 274318 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1332322038 72833 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's relevant because there's the letter H in both Haskell and PytHon. < 1332322089 228143 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: Well, it's about the other three languages that exist other than Haskell. < 1332322097 506268 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :^^^ ah, I see it's proposing a problem to be solved by the Haskell community < 1332322099 476250 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :How many letters H are there in this here sentence. < 1332322100 523239 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the existence of other languages < 1332322109 47804 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you found all six, you = genius < 1332322121 511954 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU'RE WINNER! < 1332322144 581806 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs181243217.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :> filter (`elem` "Hh") "How many letters H are there in this here sentence." < 1332322145 429103 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "HHhhh" < 1332322160 4509 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Apparently lambdabot is not a genius. :/ < 1332322160 166590 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> length "HHhhh" < 1332322161 1019 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs181243217.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot's not a genius :-( < 1332322161 162498 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 5 < 1332322170 415727 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot: you /= genius :-( < 1332322179 985653 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION curses his broken compose key.
< 1332322183 668923 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I typed that first! < 1332322200 667293 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice, C and Python versions create one thread per request, but the post also notes "None of my implementations are thread safe" < 1332322200 904786 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :≠ hey there is a sequence for it wow. < 1332322201 622625 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf used U+EF6614A1 'LATIN CAPITAL LETTER H ALTERNATE NON-PRINTING PRESENTATION FORM' < 1332322223 528490 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "really silent h". < 1332322226 665501 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :> length $ filter (`elem` "Hh") " How many letters H are there in this here sentence." < 1332322227 484001 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 7 < 1332322237 864459 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wish i could say "i was using Compose before it was cool" but that was probably 10 years before i was born < 1332322248 450315 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Compose was always cool. < 1332322285 194726 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, my compose key just broke. < 1332322292 240883 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's because I ran dist-upgrade. < 1332322306 18237 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want to close my X session. :-( < 1332322318 393123 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Before I dist-upgraded it warned me that I might have to close my X session. < 1332322322 240859 :cheater!~cheater@p4FD0EF35.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1332322327 127049 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hurr durr, "The C and Python versions perform similarly. They are spending all their time in the recv system call." < 1332322328 551146 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rebooting X is obsolete < 1332322336 181816 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :QUICK, OPTIMIZE RECV < 1332322340 174848 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just need to port ksplice to patch X < 1332322343 487158 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that should be Trivial right? < 1332322358 87869 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Solved problem. < 1332322488 571436 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's an actual compose key in the Sun keyboard, maybe I should try hooking it up to a regular computer. I'm sure I recall seeing a driver for it in Kconfig and all. < 1332322524 292995 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: We just need IP over ansible. < 1332322540 571737 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :just fork a new X, send the relevant state over, then let the new process take over all the existing connections < 1332322547 574489 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then we can make recv O(1). < 1332322547 905688 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :how hard can it be? < 1332322631 23876 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Nice concept. We've completely done away with email registrations. Just get the user to like your Facebook page or follow you on twitter. That takes away the additional burden of verification, cause someone's already done it for you. No issues with promotion emails going to the spame folder. Facebook/ Twitter don't have them." < 1332322646 401726 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finally, someone has invented the most evil method of verification ever. < 1332322676 645040 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about the verification method where... < 1332322684 576316 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't think of a way to complete that sentence. :-( < 1332322700 9997 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :...you have to kill a kitten and send in videographic proof? < 1332322724 481959 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: And then like them on Facebook? < 1332322734 458412 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1332322743 539298 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's MARGINALLY more evil. < 1332322759 156173 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :kill a kitten, share the video on facebook, tag yourself < 1332322781 635815 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just call that Saturday. < 1332322812 636451 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :also known as kill-a-caturday < 1332323701 929048 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1332323812 260355 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1332323818 477804 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1332324060 138474 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`WELCOME kmc < 1332324068 560087 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :KMC: WELCOME TO THE INTERNATIONAL HUB FOR ESOTERIC PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE DESIGN AND DEPLOYMENT! FOR MORE INFORMATION, CHECK OUT OUR WIKI: HTTP://ESOLANGS.ORG/WIKI/MAIN_PAGE < 1332324093 395168 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yikes < 1332324110 897248 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :DO YOU FEEL WELCOMED YET < 1332324162 551393 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://publib.boulder.ibm.com/infocenter/wsdatap/v3r8m1/index.jsp?topic=/xs40/convertingbetweenjsonandjsonx05.htm < 1332324233 24521 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :WIILKOMMEN AUF DER INTERNATIONALHUB FÜR EZOTERIKPROGRAMMINGSPRACHE DEZIGNUNG UND DEPLÖYMENTZE < 1332324268 592416 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :They really should've made an uppercase ß. < 1332324268 835964 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ZO RELAXEN UND WATSCHEN DER BLINKENLICHTEN < 1332324299 345850 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1332324322 682830 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, http://software.intel.com/en-us/articles/xml-parsing-accelerator-with-intel-streaming-simd-extensions-4-intel-sse4/ < 1332324410 761162 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Pft. IBM will just sell you an XML coprocessor. < 1332324414 308979 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1332324425 374325 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I first learned of this fact from you. < 1332324432 277148 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"XML coprocessor" meaning they enable one of the processors already in your zSeries mainframe < 1332324448 130210 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the service of enabling it is cheaper than usual because they tell it to only process XML < 1332324452 808665 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, it runs Java. < 1332324460 938148 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, they also sell dedicated rackmount XML processing hardware < 1332324475 519925 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gotta process that XML. < 1332324483 447158 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :keep fuckin that chicken < 1332324679 11412 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, there sort of is one http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_%C3%9F < 1332324698 921953 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t ẞ < 1332324699 768383 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :: not an expression: `' < 1332324709 716586 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, :t doesn't understand unicode < 1332324711 478181 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> ẞ < 1332324712 340456 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: data constructor ` < 1332324718 895305 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> generalCategory 'ẞ' < 1332324719 723379 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : UppercaseLetter < 1332324765 208205 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :> generalCategory 'ß' < 1332324766 78216 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : LowercaseLetter < 1332324780 694048 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1332324784 798986 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Dutch hip-hop in Atlanta / Tight new R&B in Estonia / And just another sick American in Yoshinoya" < 1332324784 960878 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's an exciting twist. < 1332324796 262447 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you were expecting LowercaseTwoLetters? < 1332324820 358110 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"i accidentally entered the German dictionary twice and now I'm... two letters" < 1332325053 647431 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"JSONx is an IBM® standard format to represent JSON as XML." awesome < 1332325269 103887 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf? < 1332325279 659923 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mad brains are they? < 1332325308 229982 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Let's invent something so we do not need to parse XML!" < 1332325325 19755 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is it that some people come into #haskell and just don't get it? < 1332325330 530244 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Hey, cool. We can also display that thing we invented to not use XML in XML so we can parse it as XML!" < 1332325331 671921 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't get... what < 1332325360 11427 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patternmatching with lists? < 1332325403 899180 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: uppercase ß is SS < 1332325404 589782 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I just know the syntax well enough that I get annoyed at people for not seeing the obvious which isn't really obvious, or something. < 1332325427 512824 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems like there've been a large number of people who've come into the channel and kept asking little variations on the same question. < 1332325451 631069 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's called homework < 1332325462 895420 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :> :t (\[x:xs] -> undefined) < 1332325463 684979 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : : parse error on input `:' < 1332325468 91150 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm. < 1332325469 998198 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :>help < 1332325478 533301 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's called it's nearly spring break and they gotta pass finals or midtterms or some shit < 1332325512 832003 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :@type (\[x:xs] -> undefined) < 1332325513 624121 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall t a. [[t]] -> a < 1332325530 977085 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you can't derive it from the syntax at least ghci can tell you . < 1332325555 695642 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe that's it. How do you make a channel where people don't ask you to do their homework? < 1332325586 778380 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :make a language so obscure nobody teaches it in school < 1332325593 699621 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :/join #agda < 1332325600 730335 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ada! < 1332325624 23769 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Sure, but that's just boring. The thing kmc linked to is much better, and in fact a bit like whatI thought it'd be. < 1332325652 540404 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are germans in mexico, germans in mexico, taking over tonight, falling in love with your daughter < 1332325655 19300 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Ss, no? < 1332325659 13724 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I accidentally discovered there was such a thing as uppercase schwa recently < 1332325666 170935 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hmm, debatable; I've seen SS more commonly < 1332325692 623175 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sing everybody deutsche deutsche vaya con Dios amigos < 1332325694 734578 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1332325704 266596 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :U+5B0 < 1332325717 303115 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :U+5Bְ0 < 1332325722 566237 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :U+5Bְ0ְ < 1332325726 800210 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoa, crazy, man. < 1332325729 898995 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What happened to that 0? < 1332325736 926442 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 JOIN :#esoteric < 1332325793 338834 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION reads core(5) manpage
< 1332325814 928865 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has an ad hoc list of 7 different situations where corefiles will not be created, for security < 1332325819 872051 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's great < 1332325826 460097 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm 100% sure they thought of them all < 1332325894 562284 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: What would you prefer? < 1332325913 735587 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-3-248.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1332325914 213138 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-3-248.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1332325914 375567 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1332325930 739682 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :whitelisting > blacklisting < 1332325936 997939 :cheater!~cheater@p4FD0EF35.dip.t-dialin.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the linux kernel is not an esolang < 1332325945 431869 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a confused deputy problem here too < 1332325950 156680 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see how whitelisting would be different in this situation. < 1332325960 196903 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :They have a bunch of predicates for what makes a core file "safe". < 1332325977 589937 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, it would be more conservative, e.g. corefiles only created in a particular directory or something < 1332325983 413495 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know, i don't have a specific proposal < 1332326009 983913 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact i think the canonical ancient example of a confused deputy is something akin to dumping core < 1332326038 143117 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://cap-lore.com/CapTheory/ConfusedDeputy.html < 1332326063 65208 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was a linux exploit some years back which involved getting a setuid program to dump core in /etc/crontab.d/ < 1332326104 394075 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :turns out cron will ignore "malformed lines" in a crontab < 1332326124 881402 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :where by "malformed lines" we mean most of an ELF coredump file < 1332326132 741210 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cute. < 1332327496 26603 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: fun fact: Verity turned out to have capability security by accident < 1332327501 41803 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we didn't put it in there deliberately, it just happened < 1332327525 789583 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/r5dxn/please_critique_my_very_simple_bmi_calculator/ <- srsly < 1332327600 521592 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: haha < 1332327618 485107 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, capability security is more about /not/ doing certain things, really < 1332327641 227457 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :want to light up an LED? someone has to pass you a function that lets you do that < 1332327661 150117 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we have a linker where you just do "import " and it'll automatically set up the required calls behind the scenes, though < 1332327805 128253 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hey, what's the equivalent of "bibliography" for programming languages? < 1332327837 371133 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, what exactly do you mean by that? I can think of two possible meanings and am having problems expressing either of them < 1332327893 483315 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, what would you title the list of languages created by a person? < 1332327902 516987 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, catseye uses "Lingography" < 1332327903 246318 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, that wasn't either of them < 1332327914 810726 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we can go with catseye's version, I think < 1332327920 814831 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"(What is a "lingography", you ask? Well, if bands have discographies and directors have filmographies...)" -- right, possibly I should have listed more examples of the form < 1332327997 60197 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: (I realised [[Chris Pressey]] should probably have a comprehensive list of the languages we have articles on) < 1332328006 153728 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1332328021 673020 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :except ideally I should include /all/ the esolangs he's created, so we have some nice redlinks, but that involves sorting his esoteric languages from his non-esoteric ones < 1332328026 732460 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is probably impossible < 1332328235 765943 :hagb4rd!~hagb4rd@koln-4db43dc9.pool.mediaWays.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1332328294 412475 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, cpressey's favourite esolangs are Homespring, Muriel, and Please Porige Hot < 1332328297 202874 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's an unusual list < 1332328315 747175 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously? < 1332328322 699620 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly, I like Homespring and Muriel too < 1332328323 966464 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"What are my favourite esolangs, you ask? Well, the three I listed earlier (Homespring, Muriel, and Please Porige Hot) hold special places in my heart. The favourite esolangs of my own is a much harder question to answer. I will say that, in terms of striking a balance between "challenge to code in" and "beauty", I think Mascarpone is one of my best. That doesn't necessarily mean it's my favourite, though." < 1332328328 876841 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(http://catseye.tc/cpressey/retrospective.html) < 1332328358 81392 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, I should start using Homespring rather than Haifu as an example of a good thematic language < 1332328364 900344 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they both are, but Homespring is better < 1332328370 133362 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, HOMESPRING < 1332328376 253931 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an acronym, after all < 1332328390 365797 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, HOtMEfSPRIbNG < 1332328398 245877 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's Homespring or HOtMEfSPRIbNG < 1332328399 914987 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the expanded version < 1332328443 119934 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, the "documentation" link on http://esolangs.org/wiki/Homespring demands a password < 1332328449 208373 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and gives an email address to ask for the password if you don't know it < 1332328489 216173 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how bizarre < 1332328507 565858 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's also documentation in the esoteric files archive, though < 1332328513 376909 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1332328520 777045 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm wondering if i should just remove the link < 1332328526 889101 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, it's hilarious < 1332328651 205346 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Okapi is a language I designed as a present for my true love. In it, the only means of control flow is throwing exceptions, and as if this wasn't enough, there are two restrictions on exceptions that are thrown — they must be divide-by-zero exceptions, and they must be caught in a lexically enclosing block. Nor is there any facility to "retry" after an exception is caught. The language is nonetheless Turing-complete." < 1332328661 523497 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wish there were more details than that available, that's amazing < 1332328793 826642 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :RocketJSquirrel: BTW, I believe an Eightebed-like language can avoid having most of a garbage collector and still not leak memory < 1332328804 681327 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what are Linux DEs like nowadays? < 1332328823 908810 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :RocketJSquirrel: hmm... or at the very least, avoid running the garbage collector machinery more than once in e.g. 2^64 allocations < 1332328831 24150 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: which ones? < 1332328837 418115 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :any of them < 1332328844 574431 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still on Gnome 2, but I'm going to have to upgrade eventually < 1332328852 549628 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and am wondering if there are any I'll find usable < 1332328864 503270 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note: I consider Windows 7 usable; not on default settings, but it only requires small changes) < 1332328886 939579 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's fairly likely you'll find Xfce tolerable. I'm happy with xmonad. < 1332328899 142414 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :GNOME and KDE haven't spontaneously fixed themselves, obviously < 1332328910 58909 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pity, I was rather hoping they would < 1332328923 814160 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least, that someone had got gnome-panel working properly in gnome 3 < 1332328928 351084 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what I'd want, really < 1332328950 852924 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: gnome 3 does have a gnome-panel, the "fallback" mode < 1332328952 547413 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's much worse < 1332328954 899772 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :keep the applications, use the old window manager and panel application < 1332328958 545842 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, I'd heard that < 1332328972 415926 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :crazy idea: is it possible to use gnome 2's gnome-panel in gnome 3? < 1332329019 530531 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I'll try Unity first, and probably decide I don't like it < 1332329022 996099 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then KDE < 1332329060 205859 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: why not just try Xfce first? < 1332329065 30624 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's basically gnome 2 < 1332329092 225235 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess trying the options that you expect not to succeed first is likely to produce a better decision in the end < 1332329102 198137 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also note that I used an earlier version of KDE 4 for a while < 1332329107 659463 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it was mostly usable < 1332329404 600501 :hagb4rd!~hagb4rd@koln-5d81f21b.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1332329514 114771 :cheater!~cheater@p4FD0EF35.dip.t-dialin.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : the only means of control flow is throwing exceptions < has he mentioned whether it's just prolog < 1332329630 756878 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a fail isn't really quite the same thing as an exception, although they're similar < 1332329635 998313 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a cut is not the same thing as an exception at all < 1332329645 482721 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a nonlocal cut is not at all related < 1332329685 671001 :cheater!~cheater@p4FD0EF35.dip.t-dialin.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i realize, i just think they're similar ideas. < 1332329718 600832 :cheater!~cheater@p4FD0EF35.dip.t-dialin.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you visit an AST and backtrack. < 1332329759 765149 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's possible to implement fails as exceptions < 1332329778 879568 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was showing my students how to do that in Java, for if they wanted to write a parser that wasn't LL(1) < 1332329792 519004 :hagb4rd!~hagb4rd@koln-5d81f21b.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :good thing bout throwing excpetions is that you can decide how to handle them in the calling routine < 1332329800 86004 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which was a surprisingly possible thing, as they had to write a parser, and had been shown how to write LL(1) parsers which was sufficient for the exercise) < 1332329931 541233 :hagb4rd!~hagb4rd@koln-5d81f21b.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which enables you to provide fair encapsulation of your libs < 1332330109 402408 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1332330168 881809 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd: don't all error handling mechanisms do that? < 1332330182 618863 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1332330399 654665 :hagb4rd!~hagb4rd@koln-5d81f21b.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i'm not sure about this, because i don't know them _all_ < 1332330500 86592 :hagb4rd!~hagb4rd@koln-5d81f21b.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there is a difference between just handling a return value (in which you also can place an errorcode or sth) and throwing an exception < 1332330552 782384 :hagb4rd!~hagb4rd@koln-5d81f21b.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even a greater difference between handling a possible error _inside_ of the function/class < 1332330581 108205 :hagb4rd!~hagb4rd@koln-5d81f21b.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the exception < 1332330778 135258 :hagb4rd!~hagb4rd@koln-5d81f21b.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the return value and an exeption _can_ have a different type, which allows you pass valueable information inside the exception-object < 1332330817 224157 :Patashu!Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1332331150 890116 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, I forgot about the antipattern where when anything goes wrong, you print it to stdout and keep on going < 1332331180 483967 :hagb4rd!~hagb4rd@koln-5d81f21b.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1332331479 840155 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1332331618 688047 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1332331883 851785 :hagb4rd!~hagb4rd@koln-5d81f21b.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lets keep things simple for an easy example: imagine i use one of your classes (i don't care how they work ;) in which a method needs to open a file. for the case the file does not exist you could throw a FileNotExists exception (or sth) allowing me to decide how to handle it; i could retry with another file or depending on the runmode write a log or whatever (not so when you handle it by your own) < 1332331989 495562 :hagb4rd!~hagb4rd@koln-5d81f21b.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or you could check the permissions and throw a FilePermissionNotAllowed Exception allowing me to handle it another way < 1332332054 130460 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That isn't related to exceptions. Returning an error code has the same behaviour. < 1332332064 449991 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What exceptions do is propagate automatically. < 1332332126 57370 :hagb4rd!~hagb4rd@koln-5d81f21b.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :when FileNotExists Exception and FilePermissionNotAllowed Exception both inherit from Exception (which at least has an errorcode and errormessage), i can just handle the base class properties and output them .. halt the program ..and and and < 1332332363 607400 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Currying#Example_in_Java + Java 8 = http://p.zem.fi/m0yi < 1332332381 346108 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :One more step and it's pretty much Haskell, right, guys? < 1332332387 985798 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And non-guys.) < 1332332485 872122 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :need moar monads < 1332332486 772511 :nortti!~chatzilla@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1332332512 157328 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't add three numbers in Haskell without using at least five monads < 1332332514 23117 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :everyone knows that < 1332332515 821266 :hagb4rd!~hagb4rd@koln-5d81f21b.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure but its absolutely not what java is written for. ugly < 1332332688 578247 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1332332699 570428 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Max SendQ exceeded < 1332332712 580773 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1332332721 803362 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :For some unfathomable reason the horrible Java thing is the only example in the article. Based on the talk page there's been a whole pile of them, earlier. < 1332332969 128702 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Wikipedians love piling on ten thousand language examples. < 1332332987 600733 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Take a look at this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fork_bomb#Examples < 1332333028 971468 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That Java example in Currying is terrible though, how bad must the other examples have been for that to be the one spared? < 1332333058 598582 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Based on the history it seems that first the "Profusion of examples" (to quote talk page title) was removed, and then recently-ish that one was added, perhaps because there were no examples. < 1332333095 368242 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also seems that from 16 Dec to 12 Mar the Java example that was there was a broken one. < 1332333110 277815 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1332333115 155393 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHO THE FUCK IS ADDING COMMENTS TO THIS SHIT < 1332333132 602921 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :const int main[] = { 14776, 3942977280, 247 }; < 1332333171 265682 :RocketJSquirrel!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Sorry, that won't win you the IOCCC any more. < 1332333177 565863 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1332333181 577348 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the example that's written "in C standard library"; not e.g. using the library, but in it. < 1332333185 835640 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1332333226 809030 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And of course the majority of revisions are messing with the examples: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Fork_bomb&action=history < 1332333236 969734 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's quite a list. < 1332333237 131427 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wikipedia, everybody! < 1332333260 655564 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :breaking news: people waste time on the internet < 1332333268 920458 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh no, you KILLED it. < 1332333276 274605 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :film at 11, just after cute videos of a cat and before some more cute videos of a cat < 1332333297 785799 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: For the second time. The last time I did so when it came up in here, another person in the channel decided to revert-war to keep it. < 1332333305 343119 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was hoping you'd stay silent. :'( < 1332333331 464218 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Is the film cats? < 1332333336 152553 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tell me the film is cats. < 1332333354 657120 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : RocketJSquirrel: BTW, I believe an Eightebed-like language can avoid having most of a garbage collector and still not leak memory RocketJSquirrel: hmm... or at the very least, avoid running the garbage collector machinery more than once in e.g. 2^64 allocations < 1332333383 544863 :RocketJSquirrel!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um ... I disagree? < 1332333394 873980 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"fork Fork Bomb fork fork fork fork wabbit" -- http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fork%E7%82%B8%E5%BC%B9 < 1332333399 578851 :nortti!~chatzilla@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: how does your forbomb even work? It says "Illegal instruction" on my machine < 1332333410 399965 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti, it's for amd64 Linux specifically < 1332333431 540565 :hagb4rd!~hagb4rd@koln-5d81f21b.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it only runs on his washing machine < 1332333439 862990 :nortti!~chatzilla@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: ok. I am using PPC 7450 Mac OS X < 1332333440 875847 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :on which it's an array of three 4-byte little endian integers < 1332333474 582968 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :RocketJSquirrel: How about this: You represent every pointer as (realptr, id). Whenever an allocation is made, the global id counter is incremented by one, stored just before the allocated memory, and returned with the pointer. Whenever you dereference a pointer, it checks that the identifier matches that of the pointer's; if it doesn't, it safely fails. Whenever the id counter is about to wrap-around, you do the standard GC thing to reassign all < 1332333474 744444 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : the identifiers. < 1332333479 648387 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you write it down as such and then decode the bytes as amd64 machine code, you get < 1332333499 957293 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo: mov $0x39, %eax; syscall; jmp foo < 1332333506 83263 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 0x39 is the syscall number for fork() < 1332333507 492497 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :RocketJSquirrel: Admittedly that just puts off the problem :P < 1332333550 453481 :RocketJSquirrel!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, so it's just making the dereference checkable. < 1332333552 718835 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the array is 'const' because many distros forbid executing writable memory (unless you explicitly ask to) < 1332333564 77593 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and fewer (but still some) forbid executing read-only data < 1332333577 703805 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :RocketJSquirrel: Sure, or you could do the same "if valid" thing as Eightebed does. < 1332333591 306827 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or define the dereferencing of an invalidated pointer to always return 0, or whatever; point is, no corruption. < 1332333640 453853 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :RocketJSquirrel: Actually this is basically the same as never freeing any memory and GCing when you run out, except that the resource to run out of increases much slower, because it's independent of the allocation size. < 1332333651 952284 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, doesn't truly solve the problem :P < 1332333662 783928 :RocketJSquirrel!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Wrapping around is a bigger issue than you've let on, it actually has to rewrite all existing IDs. < 1332333673 761008 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what I said. < 1332333676 487802 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whenever the id counter is about to wrap-around, you do the standard GC thing to reassign all < 1332333679 137770 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : the identifiers. < 1332333688 381651 :RocketJSquirrel!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I slightly misunderstood. < 1332333690 327573 :RocketJSquirrel!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right right. < 1332333711 458878 :RocketJSquirrel!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :The question is, is that more a GC than the previous strategy? < 1332333718 369108 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a rarer but stronger GC :P < 1332333773 237663 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :RocketJSquirrel: OK, my next idea is that you don't have any global counter. Memory is write-once: you allocate a slab of memory, populate it (under restricted conditions), and then freeze it, which is when you get a pointer back. That pointer comes bundled with a cryptographic hash of the data. When you dereference it, it checks the data matches the hash, and when you free it, it's released to be reused as normal. < 1332333784 692595 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :RocketJSquirrel: Now corruption is just rare! (Rare = probability 1) < 1332333833 711675 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :RocketJSquirrel: More seriously, I'm PRETTY sure you could solve it with linear types or the like. < 1332333840 929254 :RocketJSquirrel!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :You Haskell people and your solving problems with immutability. < 1332333881 488695 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :RocketJSquirrel: In fact it's pretty much the problem all the applications of linear logic to programming are designed to solve :P < 1332333891 975203 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. deterministic, explicit resource allocation with safety. < 1332333897 313826 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1332333921 590236 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oerjan < 1332333927 735580 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi elliott < 1332334071 346616 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no TOPIC #esoteric :This is CERTAINLY the MOST TERRIFYING GAMALOST you will RUN AWAY FROM all OLSOK: http://championofbirds.com/?p=4991 | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1332334081 72871 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : WEIRDEST CHEESE - what is it? < 1332334087 874225 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it (provably) true that any function can be curried? For example, I'd expect that y = f(a,b) = ((a+b) / (a*b)) could not be curried. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.194.171.29 (talk) 23:19, 25 October 2011 (UTC) < 1332334090 334092 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :I THINK THIS SHOULD NOW BE MORE CLEAR < 1332334406 464222 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1332334407 504600 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : Try updating the screen 60 times a second? It'll tear like a mofo. <-- i always knew the path of programming was full of tears. < 1332334437 688357 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1332334441 758267 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :g'day < 1332334444 366545 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no lambdabot :( < 1332334467 467158 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> var "I disagree." < 1332334467 628715 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi Phantom_Hoover < 1332334468 279364 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : I disagree. < 1332334487 382357 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot, not good enough. < 1332334519 170929 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hey how do you add articles to your WP watchlist. do i have to use the raw interface? it doesn't have the "watch" link in the dropdown next to view history like Esolang does... < 1332334537 323305 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the star button < 1332334553 107415 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. duh. < 1332334590 626095 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, there's a checkbox when you edit. < 1332334619 562454 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, i knew that, but didn't have any edits to make :) < 1332334631 691157 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :just thought i'd mention. < 1332334675 376941 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was a bit confused when it initially changed to a star too < 1332334729 658817 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, how does [[Befunge]] still exist? < 1332334739 388475 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a hard time believing it meets any notability standard. < 1332334752 108396 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's see... the citations are the Jargon File, and an Esolang talk page. < 1332334757 762171 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :an /Esolang talk page/. < 1332334766 813253 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"however, it has been shown that Befunge-93 is Turing Complete with unbounded stack word size" < 1332334776 821349 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not original research, it was published on another wiki's talk page! < 1332334790 987342 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey we do _science_ on esolang! < 1332334799 366934 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"the Befunge-93 language is, unlike most machine languages, not Turing-complete" < 1332334806 203262 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What planet are these people living on? < 1332334893 591841 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you could add http://scientopia.org/blogs/goodmath/2009/09/08/two-dimensional-pathology-befunge/ < 1332334921 503978 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay now i have 10 pages on my watchlist. < 1332334945 154170 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i don't think adding a citation to a blog will bolster the notability case :P < 1332334950 929482 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: although maybe good math, bad math is prominent enough for it to. < 1332334962 703927 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am rather sceptical that Befunge /is/ notable, anyway < 1332334975 108472 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It sure is no table. < 1332334988 875949 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i _may_ have more, but it's quite an eclectic bunch. i have [[Gorse]] and [[Ben Murphy]] as a result of some spammer who hit them once... < 1332335032 900898 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ok but the good math/bad math features were probably some of our best exposition < 1332335042 844371 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION assumed oerjan must have hundreds of pages on his watchlist.
< 1332335050 306530 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :since I keep hearing "oh yes, I have it on my watchlist" :P < 1332335055 216857 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :although he rarely linked to the wiki, iirc < 1332335115 579975 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: heh < 1332335221 507772 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :23 pages, apparently < 1332335244 204317 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wish you could somehow watchlist a page and every page "like" it. < 1332335256 946459 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :say, it would watchlist that page and every page it links to that shares a certain number of categories, or such < 1332335281 553557 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i could just manually watch a few central pages and have the rest filter through. < 1332335316 606838 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose the simpler version of that is just watching every article in a certain wikiproject. < 1332335375 59677 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.32 JOIN :#esoteric < 1332335469 274080 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hm about the featured esolang process. would it be better if no language suggested last time could be suggested post-clearing? rather than just not by the same person < 1332335486 902384 :hagb4rd2!~hagb4rd@koln-4db426ca.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1332335488 958758 :hagb4rd!~hagb4rd@koln-5d81f21b.pool.mediaWays.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1332335491 729199 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose that has the problem that people might propose a large fraction of the good esolangs on a particularly active list and thus starve the following list of candidates. < 1332335503 312232 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but otoh it'd stop the same suggestions coming up again and again and promote some diversity. < 1332335567 36810 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dunno < 1332336090 878835 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : KMC: WELCOME TO THE INTERNATIONAL HUB FOR ESOTERIC PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE DESIGN AND DEPLOYMENT! FOR MORE INFORMATION, CHECK OUT OUR WIKI: HTTP://ESOLANGS.ORG/WIKI/MAIN_PAGE < 1332336095 903605 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :LINK STILL NOT WORKING < 1332336279 142073 :hagb4rd2!~hagb4rd@koln-4db426ca.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think you should write a step by step tutorial on howto implement an esoteric language, so maybe someone less susceptible to forces of the one ring may show up and breed something completely new fresh and different < 1332336317 298150 :hagb4rd2!~hagb4rd@koln-4db426ca.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :just open the gates < 1332336359 848138 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan QUIT :Quit: Hug~♪ < 1332336425 915447 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :implement or create < 1332336429 818708 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :1. DON'T USE ANY OF THE FOLLOWING AS COMMANDS: +-<>.,[] 2. DON'T USE COMMANDS MEANING ANY OF THE FOLLOWING: INCREMENT, DECREMENT, READ CHARACTER/BYTE, WRITE CHARACTER/BYTE, BEGIN LOOP, END LOOP, MOVE LEFT, MOVE RIGHT 3. DON'T USE A TAPE OR ARRAY AS YOUR MAIN STORAGE. < 1332336435 798184 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: does that about cover it? < 1332336436 961009 :hagb4rd2!~hagb4rd@koln-4db426ca.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :create < 1332336447 593042 :hagb4rd2!~hagb4rd@koln-4db426ca.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and implement < 1332336457 167122 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd2: like a step-by-step guide on how to create a beautiful painting. < 1332336468 37052 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or a brilliant composition. < 1332336470 275 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :esolang by numbers < 1332336477 626872 :hagb4rd2!~hagb4rd@koln-4db426ca.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :more on how to make a pencil and get some colors < 1332336481 981886 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :esolangs for dummies :D < 1332336485 136944 :hagb4rd2!~hagb4rd@koln-4db426ca.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1332336488 586517 :hagb4rd2!~hagb4rd@koln-4db426ca.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :like that < 1332336516 858482 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Phantom_Hoover: does that about cover it? < 1332336543 836317 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, you forgot "if you do any of these things just kill yourself and save us the bother". < 1332336550 376680 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1332336557 683503 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :rip david morgan mar < 1332336572 295968 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hey he killed himself already. twice. < 1332336722 539856 :MSleep!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net NICK :MDude < 1332336796 555531 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523: Ss, no? <-- since it doesn't actually occur at the start of words it would probably always be all caps, so SS as ais523 says < 1332336800 327557 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That wiped out quite a few people; especially the second bit, which implicated every language that has a command like "increment" or "begin loop". < 1332336832 598509 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yay i am now the second-top editor on esolang :P < 1332336837 922295 :Patashu!Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 , Skype: patashu0 . < 1332336841 968264 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ah, yes, of course < 1332336857 661725 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, you could be merciful and say that most non-BF derivatives wouldn't really do that with instructions. < 1332336896 627326 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I have gnuplot, and a big ol' sorted list of numbers; what's the minimum necessary gnuplot incantations I need to know to plot the distribution? < 1332336904 737692 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to see what Esolang's distribution of edit counts looks like. < 1332336945 433103 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Ho-hum, so did you want gnuplot to compute the histogram for you? < 1332336956 123901 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Well, I don't really care, I just want something that looks sciency. < 1332337038 865504 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: hm that _is_ a point, we shouldn't have rules that exclude Deadfish. < 1332337063 245034 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, if you have something like "1 1 1 2 3 4 5 5 5 5 5 5", do you want to have 5 points at heights 3, 1, 1, 1 and 6, respectively? < 1332337104 320118 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I know what a histogram is. (Except the ranges are going to have to be bigger than that, considering how tiny the data is. :p) < 1332337328 65271 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It needs a bit of manual fiddling, but something like plot "your.data" using (floor($1)):(1) smooth freq with boxes < 1332337348 167125 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want wider-than-1 bins, K*floor($1/K). < 1332337355 478824 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And so on. < 1332337360 579654 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What manual fiddling would that be, roughly? < 1332337371 866612 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks, btw. < 1332337443 738224 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott@solidity:~$ mysql esolang_wiki <<< 'select user_editcount from user order by user_editcount desc' >editcounts < 1332337443 935713 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hokay. < 1332337470 693722 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I just mean that you need to manually convert your numbers from x into (z,1) where 'z' is the bin center for that point; the 'using' spec achieves that. (And then "smooth freq" means it sums up all points with identical 'x' coordinates.) < 1332337577 634936 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Aww. That produces exceedingly boring results thanks to the sheer number of 0s. < 1332337600 833967 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can I get some logarithms or something? :p < 1332337647 38892 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, or you could just ignore the 0s by setting the viewport suitably. < 1332337665 274760 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :plot [xmin:xmax] [ymin:ymax] "your.data" ... sets the area which it draws. < 1332337700 96026 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, err, I guess you'll need to change the "using" spec if you want 0s to end up in a bin of their own. < 1332337712 752944 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Well, the thing is that I'm grouping them into bins of 50. And ignoring all users with 50 or less edits will result in... few users. < 1332337767 976806 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. Though if you group into bins of 50, you will in any case only have a single number for "<50". < 1332337812 727052 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Well, yes. < 1332337818 31573 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I could just grep -v out the 0s from the raw data. < 1332337828 238002 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can gnuplot take data from a shell line? :p < 1332337889 459027 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could plot using (50*floor(($1-1)/50)+26):(1):(20) so that 0 ends up in a single bar (at -24), and 1..50 are in one bar at 26, and 51..100 in another, and so on. < 1332337967 459160 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The file name '-' is special, but I can't quite recall how it was special. < 1332337971 150321 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That results in a slightly less boring box. I think I want to increase the size of the bins as the numbers get larger, or something, since otherwise it's all going to clump into basically one bin. < 1332337971 421201 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : And of course the majority of revisions are messing with the examples: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Fork_bomb&action=history < 1332337984 385300 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :what you don't realize is that the examples _are_ a fork bomb < 1332337989 370851 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: :D < 1332338069 342817 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can do log() for natural log in the using line, but you'd need to calculate the proper constants if you want some particular bin edges. < 1332338155 614714 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Man, science is hard. < 1332338181 238282 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :DMM has the best wiki picture ever < 1332338192 219613 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1332338201 232134 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I'll just plot the editcounts as-is. :p < 1332338212 520250 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i see harry potter behind him < 1332338231 717872 :nortti!~chatzilla@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run apropos www-browser < 1332338234 889035 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :apropos: can't open the manpath configuration file /etc/manpath.config < 1332338322 740689 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1332338344 14639 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`apropos of nothing < 1332338346 264117 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :apropos: can't open the manpath configuration file /etc/manpath.config < 1332338366 943176 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone who knows what nick Gregor currently uses should poke him about that. < 1332338383 485968 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it's broken. < 1332338394 93510 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor is currently TodPunk. < 1332338404 986848 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1332338406 53574 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or was it azaq23? < 1332338415 725644 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, definitely Sgeo. < 1332338415 929011 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :One alternative is to start octave and then do d = load("your.data"); hist(d, [0 logspace(1, max, n)]); -- that will produce a histogram with bins where there's a bin at 0, and then 'n' more bins with centers between 1 .. 'max', logarithmically spaced. < 1332338429 79523 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: You forgot step 0: install Octave. < 1332338441 236974 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It probably works in MATLAB too. :p < 1332338442 471065 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION installs Octave.
< 1332338449 671386 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, Octave uses FLTK. Or one of its dependencies does. < 1332338492 903597 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it's the plotting. I think it has supported several things. < 1332338513 602479 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The polish on Octave's plotting system is... slightly lacking, compared to MATLAB. You do get some windows, but that's about it. < 1332338540 921909 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not one of the people that were named < 1332338542 699760 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can use gnuplot. Or so sayeth the optional dependencies list; "alternative plotting". < 1332338551 113000 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :azaq23: Are you SURE? < 1332338564 759546 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 PRIVMSG #esoteric :except for "azaq23" < 1332338568 298850 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :octave:1> d = load("editcounts") < 1332338568 464185 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :error: load: failed to read matrix from file `editcounts' < 1332338571 777207 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't work, fizzie. :( < 1332338577 998685 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It worked for *my* data. < 1332338585 929089 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the file like? Anything extra in there? < 1332338592 338713 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, the first line is "user_editcount". < 1332338594 241371 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is probably: why. < 1332338594 403053 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just plain numbers, one per line, should work. < 1332338599 601489 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I wonder how gnuplot managed to plot it. < 1332338613 350306 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has some smarts about automatically skipping header-looking things. < 1332338625 2617 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :octave:2> hist(d, [0 logspace(1, max, n)]); < 1332338625 203923 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :error: Invalid call to max. Correct usage is: < 1332338625 204116 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : -- Loadable Function: max (X) < 1332338625 204223 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : -- Loadable Function: max (X, Y) < 1332338625 204333 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : -- Loadable Function: max (X, [], DIM) < 1332338625 515467 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : -- Loadable Function: max (X, Y, DIM) < 1332338627 506469 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : -- Loadable Function: [W, IW] = max (X) < 1332338629 515330 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :TUT TUT, as they say. < 1332338639 975420 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was "max" as in "put some value there". :p < 1332338644 560550 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you can put max(d) in. < 1332338661 351252 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also you need to specify an 'n'. < 1332338688 866937 :nortti!~chatzilla@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.1 [Firefox 11.0/20120312200651] < 1332338694 350993 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't probably widen the bars when plotting, so it might look a bit silly. < 1332338731 789387 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that fails horribly. < 1332338744 141734 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/CINY Many errors like this. < 1332338761 312662 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gugh. < 1332338774 9232 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then a chart with one point at 0 and some very improbable things on the axes (e.g. 1e+212). < 1332338817 935516 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could try saying backend("fltk") first. < 1332338854 184148 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`backend' undefined < 1332338856 947672 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: backend': not found < 1332338866 376458 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :octave:16> available_backends < 1332338866 537878 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ans = < 1332338866 538107 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :{ [1,1] = fltk [1,2] = gnuplot < 1332338866 538236 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :} < 1332338910 162580 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`available_backends' undefined < 1332338912 394231 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: available_backends': not found < 1332338918 624241 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's just weird. < 1332338923 356008 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is Octave 3.2.4 that we have here, for the record. < 1332338928 488027 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :3.6.1 < 1332338936 25488 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's obviously too new. :p < 1332338949 321012 :hagb4rd2!~hagb4rd@koln-4db426ca.pool.mediaWays.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1332339003 883498 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, is that "available_backends" a 2D array? < 1332339011 93268 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :those indices look rather weird < 1332339065 331149 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's an 1x2 cell array, yes. < 1332339088 548095 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure if octave treats all cell arrays as at least two-dimensional, though. < 1332339104 831795 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Apparently it's available_graphics_toolkits() nowadays. < 1332339114 501432 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fltk, gnuplot < 1332339126 989808 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, maybe graphics_toolkit("fltk") will then work. < 1332339131 204553 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is it you are trying to plot? < 1332339158 599856 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Edit count distribution histogram with logscale on the X axis, I think. < 1332339166 286237 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the esolang wiki? < 1332339178 919089 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1332339199 734063 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't gnuplot do the job? Pretty sure there are logscale options in there < 1332339221 190693 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even just getting it to do the summing involved for a histogram is quite a manual job. < 1332339234 647213 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair enough < 1332339336 631732 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Oh, no. < 1332339347 391527 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I did a bad. < 1332339353 219472 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay. < 1332339368 833294 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You want hist(d, [0 logspace(0, log(max(d)), n)]) or some-such. < 1332339375 720018 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just as I switch back to gnuplot to try and plot the raw data with some exponentially axes. :p < 1332339377 437827 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Okies. < 1332339409 921654 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: That still produces some fairly improbable axes. < 1332339421 647565 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :4e+07 and the like. < 1332339430 265013 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, log10(max(d)). < 1332339430 426868 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :the wiki has been very active < 1332339476 637156 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know how I managed to forget the thing where logspace(a, b) means "from 10^a to 10^b except if b is pi". < 1332339483 692240 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: we now have a featured article! < 1332339492 417541 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what does it mean if b is pi? < 1332339495 27136 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, one? < 1332339505 753822 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Then it means "from 10^a to pi". < 1332339511 794185 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: only got up and running this week < 1332339520 382605 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, why? < 1332339521 987610 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: But it must be the single single- or double-precision float that's closest to pi. < 1332339529 40954 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: not article! < 1332339529 886714 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :language < 1332339534 681391 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :...ok < 1332339535 484214 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: For compatibility with MATLAB 'logspace' function. < 1332339552 754399 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Okay, that... "works". < 1332339554 789214 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that just raises the new question: Why does MATLAB do it that way? < 1332339589 798123 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: let's put it this way: if we had a superb, Wikipedia-featured-article-level article on Snack, would you want it to be featured on the main page as exemplary? < 1332339592 927416 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: "y = logspace(a,pi) generates the points between 10^a and pi, which is useful for digital signal processing where frequencies over this interval go around the unit circle." < 1332339598 637445 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1332339600 156781 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's a rather curiously specific application. < 1332339624 47286 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what if you actually want from 10^a to 10^pi ? < 1332339628 967211 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: The problem now is that it still looks like a really tall line and then a tiny pile of moss surrounded in a sea of nothingness. :p < 1332339670 859880 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Science: too hard. < 1332339672 388262 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Possibly you just then add an epsilon to it or something. < 1332339673 683612 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, isn't that what the logarithmic bit is supposed to deal with? < 1332339678 365489 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: maybe some April :P < 1332339686 191134 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and surely you could nest it in another logspace call < 1332339719 128340 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric : ------------------------� < 1332339724 529491 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly, we have much better _jokes_ than that still < 1332339733 38879 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: wat < 1332339749 867386 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You can always try doing set(gca,'yscale','log') after the plot to see if it's any better. < 1332339756 599420 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its my plotting of the function < 1332339771 535730 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: That blanks the entire chart. < 1332339785 969363 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :warning: axis: omitting non-positive data in log plot < 1332339799 443413 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, non-positive edit counts? < 1332339814 55531 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Well, that's impressive. I guess it doesn't like the negative infinities that the bars have. < 1332339815 128602 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :does that mean zero? < 1332339817 56795 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION relatedly recalls that the Wumo comic has both a best of week and worst of week link. sometimes they are the same comic.
< 1332339826 326354 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1332339854 334586 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl < 1332339905 359660 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: If you want just an outline of the shape with logscale y, try [y,x] = hist(...); semilogy(x,y); or something. < 1332339906 138142 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note: sometimes/frequently NSF[WL]) < 1332339950 163137 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Can I just hire you to science it? < 1332339958 69869 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should eat < 1332339963 35392 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is up early for reasons
< 1332339992 911833 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it looks boring, then it looks boring. But if you want to dump the numbers somewhere, I can take a look, except only after some three hours or so. I'll have to go do a thing soon, first. < 1332340022 146112 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't I have to ANONYMISE THEM for PRIVACY or something?!?!?!??! < 1332340024 36700 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is like Netflix. < 1332340027 149820 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Esoflix. < 1332340095 340049 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: _technically_ all the information is publically available, isn't it? just not conveniently. < 1332340101 898888 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Well, yes. < 1332340128 572595 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: It's also not tied to the user IDs, so there's very little privacy being violated. :p < 1332340137 466928 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1332340159 619875 :hagb4rd!~hagb4rd@koln-4db4f49d.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1332340197 89989 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, you know. *Someone* has 1901 edits. < 1332340201 929983 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you? < 1332340214 965301 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That violates oerjan's privacy by revealing the number, even if the fact that it's oerjan's edit count isn't revealed at all. < 1332340219 913263 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1332340220 74613 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, oerjan? < 1332340221 881952 :derdon!~derdon@pD9E1DC66.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1332340223 166738 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :SHOCKING < 1332340237 238417 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be irresponsible of me to reveal that data, therefore, as it would be a serious violation of oerjan's trust. < 1332340239 219354 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :NEVER DO THAT < 1332340263 70669 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't worry, if I wanted to be malicious I'd start logging all your passwords or something. Er, did I say something? < 1332340280 65635 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, nothing at all. < 1332340287 131327 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Excellent. < 1332340293 360798 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, have you tried the technic mod pack for minecraft? < 1332340295 797758 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remember, folks, never use the same password on multiple sites! < 1332340301 155504 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No. < 1332340311 282943 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA < 1332340366 918239 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get the feeling oerjan reuses passwords. < 1332340380 272469 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't imagine why. < 1332340380 911052 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is kind of cool, but the main problem is that towards the mid game you are 1) want resources 2) have tools that can do significant damage to the landscape. Which means that whatever place you decide to mine at will end up looking like a wasteland. < 1332340458 750061 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :which you realise didn't look so good next to your nice house < 1332340488 738455 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Church encoding (aka Visitor Pattern)" < 1332340497 214804 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh? < 1332340503 817945 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? < 1332340505 418468 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's a sound policy: i reuse a _different_ password for net banking and public services. the kind that just yesterday managed to give thousands of people access to a single person's tax reporting account. < 1332340538 34887 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, btw, does mediawiki store passwords hashed? < 1332340595 203121 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes. < 1332340598 148473 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not terribly well. < 1332340600 149178 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :which hash? < 1332340601 280431 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But hashed, and salted. < 1332340605 731814 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :MD5. But it's salted. < 1332340612 596519 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair enough < 1332340633 545564 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(yesterday was supposed to be the day of the year most people in norway can start doing tax reports, and the system is generally horribly flaky that day.) < 1332340639 757097 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: These are the (length-sorted) lines you've said in my logs where there's just ten or more A's and nothing else: http://p.zem.fi/ca24 < 1332340641 685884 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw I think I only reused passwords once in recent years, and that is the same local login passwords to a couple of old, rarely used computers I have. Mostly use them for when I happen to need serial ports < 1332340645 404416 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*reports via the internet < 1332340663 563228 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, wait, net banking and password? < 1332340664 513443 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1332340669 536121 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: that's surprisingly < 1332340674 73377 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't you use hard certificates over there? < 1332340680 922794 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: there's a password + a hard certificate. < 1332340684 179114 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah good < 1332340714 48901 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*fizzie: that's surprisingly few < 1332340730 924697 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, since the channel started? < 1332340745 336602 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, since you started logging) < 1332340764 488155 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: A hard certificate? Really? < 1332340772 48169 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well, it should be. It could be missing some. < 1332340776 151531 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not aware of those being widespread. < 1332340818 57377 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, for bank? Usually using challenge response. Like you get a code on screen, enter it into a small device with a keypad, and enter your personal code, then get a reply code back and enter it on the login screen < 1332340835 839910 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :We just have boring passwords and one-time password lists. < 1332340850 282979 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :in my case I need my bank card in the device for it to work, the device itself is not user-specific < 1332340857 517879 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though I think some bank had some sort of a beta test of a device. < 1332340861 730126 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No, not "usually". < 1332340868 201804 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Approximately nobody does that. < 1332340903 845235 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i was using it in a general sense: it's a small device into which my bank/visa card enters and then you push a button and it gives a series of digits. < 1332340910 828082 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I remember that a few years back there was a lot of articles in the news papers about the bad security with one time code pads and such and that prompted most banks to switch to hard certificates < 1332340919 323371 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: oerjan: From the glogbot logs: http://sprunge.us/HOZC < 1332340937 564865 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Maybe in Scandinavia. It's just passwords + security question here. < 1332340941 830188 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, so not challenge response? < 1332340951 221567 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, weird < 1332340954 212158 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it looks rather similar. < 1332340970 658963 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :A few more. < 1332340980 199990 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really see what the point of an involved security system for your online banking is if you use a credit card. < 1332340995 678589 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like leaving the door open but reinforcing your windows with unobtanium. < 1332341002 147406 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no. no information passes from the web to the device. < 1332341012 834634 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the chipsets are supposed to be safer than the old magnetic strip thingy < 1332341042 914439 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're announcing some new system to replace that, anyhow. _before_ this we just had a card with a heap of one-time numbers on it. < 1332341054 290481 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*advertising < 1332341059 861375 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ?! Dude, it's not the cards themselves that are the problem. < 1332341077 366168 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and nowdays it is all chipsets in Sweden. They passed a law that said that if a shop used magnetic strip and that led to issues then the shop is responsible for any losses. That made shops switch over rather fast. < 1332341081 576238 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the whole model. < 1332341085 935005 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure how much better it actually is < 1332341090 800344 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you pay someone with a credit card, they know your credit card details. < 1332341098 659136 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1332341103 681245 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Therefore whenever you pay anyone with a credit card, you're giving them your credit card. < 1332341110 935455 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is no security whatsoever. < 1332341142 188628 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1332341152 852093 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :here's a norwegian newspaper article on yesterday's scandal btw http://www.dagbladet.no/2012/03/20/nyheter/innenriks/altinn/selvangivelsen/20770039/ < 1332341175 713394 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's just a backwards compatibility thing. It'd go away if you'd actually need to properly use the card when buying stuff with it. < 1332341197 83559 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I've seen more MasterCard SecureCode / Visa VerifiedByVisa things on the web-web lately. < 1332341200 762379 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what if you moved the keypad and display to the card itself, wouldn't that be safer? Then you could just sign a request on the card and the bank could verify it < 1332341238 27559 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Of course it's a fixable problem. < 1332341244 731401 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That doesn't make it not a problem. < 1332341265 998253 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, obviously you can just make a mini-device with a private key and the like. < 1332341292 512496 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh for web transaction some banks here offer to create a special bank card number for just a single transaction. So there won't be more available than what you specify on it. < 1332341328 355948 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The single-use numbers I think quite many places offer. < 1332341363 947596 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I remember some bank (probably not Finnish) having a test of the system where you actually see the amount you're authorizing when you're getting the authentication code for a net-bank transaction. That's part of some of the standards, IIRC. < 1332341466 682294 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway with the "verified by visa" thing it redirects me to my internet bank and I have to use the hard certificate I think. < 1332341498 335793 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, pretty sure it was with "verified by visa" stuff < 1332341505 929855 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh also by net banking i'm not referring to buying things on the web, as i never do that (i think i've bought a plane ticket _once_). i'm referring to actually logging into my bank account for paying bills and stuff. < 1332341522 874129 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes obviously < 1332341527 997895 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes. < 1332341536 234661 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(oerjan uses planes?) < 1332341544 388899 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: not any more, no. < 1332341567 874607 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, actually since internet banking offers a lot more than just taking money out of the account your card is tied to, your analogy with the reinforced windows is not quite accurate < 1332341588 933872 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was back in 2002-2004 or so, before the security insanity had really hit here < 1332341682 538394 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can access all accounts from the internet bank, and stocks (if you have any, I seen a link for it in the menu, never used that). Probably even more stuff. < 1332341794 988261 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Anyway speaking of credit card security, we did in fact have to buy a plane ticket via a travel agency recently (all purchases of the university have to go through it for businessy reasons, and we wanted my wife's ticket in it for the same order), and it was certainly very safe: they wanted the CVV2 number sent in a *different* email than rest of the card details. (Or faxed.) < 1332341845 587637 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Did you fax it? < 1332341847 625014 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yeah like that in my bank too, i sold off my stocks that way. < 1332341854 786916 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan had *stocks*? < 1332341872 108537 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm not entirely sure, it was handled by our department secretary. < 1332341877 369512 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i did. well fund options. < 1332341885 773931 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1332341892 448799 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fund shares, i guess it is. < 1332341909 261866 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I doubt the "security insanity" has even vaguely hit Norway. < 1332341912 460433 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Y'all pampered. < 1332341928 471870 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, oh and insurances and borrowing money too < 1332341931 304201 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :just checked < 1332341948 680876 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well relatively speaking, but i think you can get part of your luggage confiscated for stupid reasons here too. < 1332341977 778982 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : oerjan: I doubt the "security insanity" has even vaguely hit Norway. <-- what? < 1332341996 403256 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh for planes < 1332341997 403827 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1332342002 910557 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :although i wouldn't really _know_, since i don't use planes any more :P < 1332342044 515292 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suspect it mostly gets bad only if your plane trip leaves the country < 1332342055 497896 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Also here's a less picky list: http://p.zem.fi/o1ug < 1332342064 763770 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and of course if you get anywhere near the US, all bets are off) < 1332342136 546543 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Now do all lines with "A" in them. < 1332342181 551271 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have 6469 such. < 1332342186 681723 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ORDER BY LENGTH < 1332342200 189841 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :NAAAAAH. < 1332342201 949912 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw the security if you are not flying with airlines is basically nil. Was up in a small Cessna a couple of years ago (2? 3?) and there was no security to speak of. < 1332342223 429458 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(didn't leave the country though) < 1332342226 833022 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite a lot of it is just "AnMaster:" prefixes. < 1332342240 975767 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what if you filter those out? < 1332342255 558526 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, normal, they put security in airports because it's more easy and get seen easily, but elsewhere... don't do much about it < 1332342292 543583 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :4933 with 'A' but not 'AnMaster'. < 1332342297 722781 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :sebbu, well, it was at an airport. But with the local flight club. Happens to be located right next to the airport, and share the runways with it. < 1332342324 542414 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Local fight club. < 1332342326 722869 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : btw the security if you are not flying with airlines is basically nil. Was up in a small Cessna a couple of years ago (2? 3?) and there was no security to speak of. < 1332342341 30501 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You realise this is because people don't try to hijack small Cessnas, right? < 1332342374 954650 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, of course, but someone could hijack a business jet. That could still cause significant damage. < 1332342380 35233 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not nearly as much of course < 1332342381 576579 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still < 1332342388 922626 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course the chance is pretty low < 1332342417 914221 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :They don't let anyone on to business jets in return for a fee. :p < 1332342433 392497 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, err I meant private business jets < 1332342454 357359 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :a mad millionaire? < 1332342457 595472 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe? < 1332342490 995039 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The dreaded mad millionaire problem, yes. < 1332342503 735258 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes, my point is that terrorists don't generally find themselves with a good reason to be on a business jet. < 1332342520 427238 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't need a reason to be on a commercial flight. < 1332342520 910194 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1332342589 841132 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd sort of figured the reason they don't put business jets through the security stuff is because there are rich people involved < 1332342609 845730 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably that helps as well yes < 1332342643 774469 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously that too, yes. < 1332342675 835437 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's not surprising that the "security" is done for commercial flights in airports; if it was effective, that's just by far the most reasonable place to put it. < 1332342687 438075 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-150-233.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1332342694 697672 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-224-228.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1332342695 256659 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I wonder how effective it actually is? < 1332342760 576571 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The TSA stuff? It isn't. < 1332342776 846624 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1332342780 909444 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so why is it done? < 1332342793 239693 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's effective for giving people cancer. (Okay, not really.) < 1332342802 485612 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Does the Swedish government never do stupid things? < 1332342818 427455 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, of course it does < 1332342825 59731 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :There you go, then. < 1332342827 43600 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1332342835 805105 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: supposedly the screening has less effect than being exposed to cosmic rays high in the atmosphere during the flight itself < 1332342836 233401 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, you can thank 9/11. < 1332342919 993725 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Right; so it's not exactly effective. I'm sure if they'd contact some proper engineers they could make a far more efficient cancer machine. < 1332343260 415301 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: They did that once: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Therac-25 < 1332343278 88520 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember that thing. < 1332343283 842265 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Sadly it also failed to give anyone cancer, seeing as they already had it. < 1332343295 299119 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It did manage to kill people, though. < 1332343316 695344 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it's pretty awful :( < 1332343329 575078 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Non-real-time software is nice. Lower risk, and all that. < 1332343336 120922 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The details of the OS that you get from the report were interesting; it was quite the spaghetti code, with their own scheduler and so on. < 1332343400 560542 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd hate to be one of the engineers on that project. < 1332343409 769666 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that the guilt isn't deserved. < 1332343488 994478 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd hate to be the guy who's fault is it that when you beg the killer robot for mercy, it will just go all "PLEASE ENUNCIATE MORE CLEARLY" and resume killing you. < 1332343514 662792 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd hate to be the guy who writes "who's" like that. < 1332343572 81481 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you are the guy BWAHAHAHA shun the nonbeliever shuuuuuunnnnnnn < 1332343811 946954 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: *it is < 1332343827 267718 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That, too. < 1332344535 555573 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1332344560 285559 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi elliott < 1332344644 903214 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1332344651 718558 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(deja vu) < 1332344675 93099 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is the mouse cursor drawing handled in X11? It is after all a form of compositing really (especially with antialiased cursors with smooth edges), but it was supported long before more general compositing was supported. So at which layer is it handled? < 1332344744 803311 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think there are any "smooth"-edged cursors without compositing. < 1332344754 5593 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: the GPU renders the cursor, AFAIK < 1332344765 288890 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm < 1332344767 906333 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the reason I think this is that I've seen GPU crashes that render nothing on the system working /but/ the mouse cursor < 1332344774 896608 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1332344777 603956 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least I recall a couple of graphics drivers having cursor-specific options. < 1332344787 739373 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: That's a bit modern-day for Vorpal's question. < 1332344794 768563 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so a sprite of some sort < 1332344804 828419 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But OTOH I suspect that was how it was done in the olden days, too. < 1332344809 884835 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :E.g. 'man radeon' -> "SWcursor boolean: Selects software cursor. The default is off." < 1332344811 260031 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps not the stretch in-between. < 1332344856 264559 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, that seems reasonable < 1332344955 654831 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"X provides a set of standard cursor shapes in a special font named cursor. Applications are encouraged to use this interface for their cursors because the font can be customized for the individual display type. The shape argument specifies which glyph of the standard fonts to use." That's the Xlib interface view of it, from man XCreateFontCursor. (But you can also create cursors from a Pixmap ... < 1332344962 146607 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :... or any regular X font.) < 1332344976 997230 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably there's also something more modern. < 1332344986 198244 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably < 1332345015 797868 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I seem to remember smooth cursors back ages ago. Pretty sure it was possible back on xfree86 even < 1332345174 141683 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes, but "smooth" != "translucent". < 1332345190 108736 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The 'Render' extension -- the thing that does composition -- has cursor loading functions too. < 1332345196 761513 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure the standard GNOME 2 white cursor thing had sharp edges, it was just antialiased inside. < 1332345203 762787 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm possibly < 1332345206 710136 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it was rounded off a bit so it looked quite smooth. < 1332345214 541877 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :trying to remember what it looked like in KDE 2 < 1332345220 712865 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"When using images loaded from files, Xcursor prefers to use the Render extension CreateCursor request if supported by the X server. Where not supported, Xcursor maps the cursor image to a standard X cursor and uses the core CreateCursor request." < 1332345221 553109 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_JSR8IC77Ub4/TSSKKbXaWCI/AAAAAAAABlY/ch99AiNX2Sc/s1600/Ubuntu-desktop-2-410-20080706.png -- it can be seen here < 1332345231 454504 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess there is a shadow. < 1332345236 279207 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1332345239 77320 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Ah, maybe it's that then. < 1332345286 702365 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :XRender dates back to about 2000, "first released with XFree86 version 4.0.1". < 1332345292 940509 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Later < 1332345406 418288 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bleh, my zoom-in-and-see-the-individual-pixels window manager trick doesn't work on the cursor < 1332345462 766648 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :From the Xcursor lib again: "XcursorBool XcursorSupportsARGB (Display *dpy): Returns whether the display supports ARGB cursors or whether cursors will be mapped to a core X cursor." < 1332345486 975332 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, a screen magnifier? Or something else? < 1332345505 221125 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's one of the compiz features < 1332345509 454317 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah I see < 1332345512 878817 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of them, I'm not even sure if they have an intended use < 1332345516 75078 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they were just added because they could < 1332345533 979615 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. I can make a window black-and-white using super-shift-mousewheel < 1332345544 105241 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is nice on occasion, if something's too brightly colored < 1332345550 680722 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, I don't use compiz, it messed up with opengl stuff for me in the past. And nowdays I just use xfwm4 or whatever it is called. < 1332345553 79253 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it does sound like on the protocol level, you have a non-translucent CreateCursor, and then the XRender extension CreateCursor that can do ARGB images; and then it is -- or at least was -- the graphics driver's job to keep the cursor rendered. < 1332345574 30082 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway, what happened to the cursor when you used that trick? < 1332345581 923838 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just kept moving around as normal < 1332345583 943313 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :xfwm4 does compositing too. < 1332345586 691077 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm okay < 1332345588 75458 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, you mean zooming in? < 1332345591 644545 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it stayed the same size < 1332345597 705955 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, right, but it doesn't do the silly stuff compiz does < 1332345599 830478 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and moving it changed the point the screen was zoomed around < 1332345600 447242 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :like rotating cubes < 1332345619 261198 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as I know at least < 1332345622 479379 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was helping a guy at the department few weeks back, I think he had ALL THE EFFECTS on. At least when I moved a terminal window around, it wiggled like it was made out of jelly. < 1332345643 266104 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1332345706 627209 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: that's actually in the default set when you ask for high effects < 1332345721 221322 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean by wiggled? < 1332345729 431605 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :like... shakes when you move it? < 1332345767 506980 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: there's a bit of a timelag on pixels further from the mouse < 1332345773 41802 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it looks like the window's slightly elastic < 1332345777 93131 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1332345788 808733 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :utterly pointless as far as I can tell < 1332345792 589277 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1332345802 807919 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It shakes, yes. < 1332345811 733032 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it looks nicer than the window staying rigid < 1332345822 509920 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does? < 1332345824 141506 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes, there's no real need for it < 1332345825 826596 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it? < 1332345826 279457 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to me it does < 1332345837 702960 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1332345844 164777 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, if it ends up looking slightly wider than it is, you can't really do precise placement < 1332345876 430794 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It settles down relatively fast if you don't move the mouse. But still. < 1332345884 625277 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, Wikipedia (generally) bans linking to forks of Wikipedia < 1332345895 514288 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Personally I think it just looks like the window is somehow broken or melted. Makes me think "you should probably get that checked out". < 1332345904 848123 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that means waiting, any special effect that takes away time that I could have spent doing other stuff is bad. < 1332345909 545868 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about wikis with substantial content with a specific focus but that are based on Wikipedia's articles to start with? < 1332345915 934919 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that would count as one of the exceptiosn < 1332345917 829466 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*exceptions < 1332345983 571886 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :like minimizing, OS X has one of the worst minimizing effects I ever seen (is it default btw? I know you can turn it off but still, why even put that in there) < 1332346006 633392 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The genie is I think the default. < 1332346015 566105 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, and it is horrible < 1332346030 695114 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It had a second one, at least in 10.4. < 1332346040 495142 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1332346079 787871 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose you know of the easter egg that you can slow down the genie by a factor of ten or so? And the not-so-easter-egg thing that you can freeze windows in the middle of the effect so that they're stuck in that shape, and then keep using it? < 1332346092 937390 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope, don't know either of those < 1332346105 105614 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ctrl-shift-minimize or something does the slowdown. < 1332346110 816572 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :my experience with OS X is limited to helping people (family) who have macs. < 1332346111 612119 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't turn off the effect (through the standard interface). < 1332346115 771380 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: It's not an easter egg. < 1332346119 842967 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can do that for anything that animates. < 1332346134 324024 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was used to demonstrate Expose and the like, IIRC. < 1332346143 84429 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The freezing thing is fun, though. < 1332346146 780001 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(But really more a bug.) < 1332346155 595017 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : You can't turn off the effect (through the standard interface). <-- thought there was an alternative effect? < 1332346157 68795 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately it doesn't quite map the geometry. < 1332346159 202820 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or have they removed that? < 1332346159 664085 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well, yes. < 1332346170 240315 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :the alternative was significantly better at least < 1332346207 704191 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :still, on the computer I'm writing this on I have no effect at all when minimizing/maximising. < 1332346215 142422 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, how do you do the freezing? < 1332346231 894459 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kill the Dock. < 1332346238 309509 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1332346294 991459 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :does that mean the dock handles window manager style tasks? < 1332346297 207490 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird < 1332346372 98711 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well, minimised windows go into the Dock. < 1332346383 17754 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it makes sense for the Dock to handle it. < 1332346384 640553 :hagb4rd!~hagb4rd@koln-4db4f49d.pool.mediaWays.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1332346409 191385 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed, but I would have assumed the actual minimising part would be handled by the equivalent of the window manager. < 1332346422 100726 :hagb4rd!~hagb4rd@koln-d9329d08.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1332346426 600169 :MoALTz_!~no@host-92-2-131-169.as43234.net QUIT :Quit: brb < 1332346449 141234 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the Dock also enlargenifies to make a space for it while the animation is happening. < 1332346455 387622 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1332346457 762660 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you'd need quite some coordination with WindowServer to manage that. < 1332346462 936229 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arguably WindowServer should display the dock. < 1332346493 38819 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you need that already I assume? Or does the dock handle the compositing of the window as well? < 1332346547 750352 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does that matter? The Dock just has to morph it. < 1332346553 603987 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1332346605 74259 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is the actual morphing done? The obvious choice to me is doing it by a matrix on the GPU < 1332346637 791705 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :which seems to be the realm of the window manager < 1332346696 491468 :MoALTz!~no@host-92-2-151-47.as43234.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1332346731 314360 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Core Animation, one presumes. < 1332346734 753705 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1332346746 363149 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or something of the sort. < 1332346768 477691 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Core Animation first appeared in Mac OS X v10.5" -- never mind, must be something else. < 1332346807 373589 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :also can any program mess with the window of another program like that? Or is it just the dock? < 1332346821 381542 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :the security model seems rather bad if any program can do that < 1332346833 728958 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that the X11 security model is any better < 1332346871 695073 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: There are rather bigger problems with the security model. < 1332346881 488008 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :For instance, any windowing system that lets any application take a screenshot has no security. < 1332346895 105379 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed, that should require special privileges < 1332346996 560783 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there any secure windowing system at all? < 1332347004 131780 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that currently exists I mean) < 1332347012 172136 :hagb4rd!~hagb4rd@koln-d9329d08.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you want to modify the animation on the layer vorpal? < 1332347014 537427 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Almost assuredly. < 1332347019 277031 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd, what? < 1332347025 944734 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, do you happen to know of one? < 1332347028 699286 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure one of the capability-based OSes has had a windowing system. < 1332347034 554904 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right < 1332347054 708537 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NeWS might have been secure, too? All I know about NeWS is that it's about 15x better than X. < 1332347068 4338 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that isn't difficult to achieve < 1332347142 661382 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, I left off "thousand". < 1332347150 256753 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1332347162 611014 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you canvas.drawImage(img) where img.src is cross-origin, it clears the origin-clean flag, and thereafter you can never call .toDataURL() or .getPixelData() on that canvas. < 1332347183 614882 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw I found something interesting recently, it seems steam automatically adds exceptions to the windows firewall for installed games. To allow them to listen on any port on either tcp or udp < 1332347187 138671 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Browsers are so security-minded. < 1332347200 84875 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does this without asking the user or there even being an option to disable the behaviour as far as I can tell < 1332347209 323901 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/either/both/ < 1332347227 479698 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Nice! < 1332347227 678606 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ouch < 1332347237 975214 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: A known exploit, I take it? < 1332347262 384782 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Also a textbook example of how ad-hoc security is completely unworkable.) < 1332347277 905521 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, has it been used in any exploit? < 1332347282 75961 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Why would you use the Windows Firewall? < 1332347294 594457 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, it is there by default in windows. < 1332347318 216347 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and it isn't quite as bad in windows 7 as it was in XP) < 1332347321 882375 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: So is that fucking animated dog. < 1332347324 697195 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Okay, in XP.) < 1332347327 972350 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not in 7 < 1332347329 59378 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1332347348 615963 :hagb4rd!~hagb4rd@koln-d9329d08.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :would you mind to drop me a short line on what you want to do vorpal? would be so much more fun to get a point < 1332347351 44219 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :the machine is behind a real firewall (and NAT too), but still it is interesting behaviour < 1332347365 657289 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd, uh? Did I want to do something? < 1332347373 452315 :hagb4rd!~hagb4rd@koln-d9329d08.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't? < 1332347388 679815 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I do want to breath, quite often in fact. < 1332347401 706875 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(wth are you going on about?) < 1332347402 733804 :hagb4rd!~hagb4rd@koln-d9329d08.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nevermind < 1332347482 583428 :hagb4rd!~hagb4rd@koln-d9329d08.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you catched my attention while discussing this animation thing.. so i thought you're out to experiment with this or sth < 1332347492 29695 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, I just sprinted into a bucket in Skyrim by mistake, it went flying several hundred meters, over a rather tall mountain, before I lost sight of it. Trying to find where it landed now... < 1332347517 903839 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd, I believe we discussed terrible animations of compiz, then OS X? < 1332347598 818948 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :To be fair it was a magical "whirlwind sprint" (lowest "level"), but even so that result was way out of proportion to the force I hit the object with. < 1332347635 153439 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a: new user account on the: esoteric languages wiki. < 1332347649 482743 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is? < 1332347681 916533 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was that just a weird way of announcing it? < 1332348649 617407 :RocketJSquirrel!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott was feeling very Smalltalk. < 1332348658 937938 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I was feeling very: fizzie. < 1332348790 766299 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :RocketJSquirrel, ah hi Gregor. Looks like apropos doesn't work on hackego < 1332348798 199159 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :`apropos apropos < 1332348800 806167 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :apropos: can't open the manpath configuration file /etc/manpath.config < 1332348809 993807 :RocketJSquirrel!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'mma go with "too bad" on that one. < 1332348815 418113 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Neither does man. Oh noes. < 1332348818 742589 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair enough < 1332348823 452801 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, obviously :P < 1332348830 735174 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Hey, can you use SCIENCE to impale some colours? < 1332348846 508974 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably whatis doesn't work either < 1332348848 834978 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :`whatis man < 1332348851 323226 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatis: can't open the manpath configuration file /etc/manpath.config < 1332348859 42280 :RocketJSquirrel!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls /usr/share/man < 1332348861 774423 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :cs \ de \ es \ fi \ fr \ fr.ISO8859-1 \ fr.UTF-8 \ gl \ hu \ id \ it \ it.ISO8859-1 \ it.UTF-8 \ ja \ ko \ man1 \ man2 \ man3 \ man4 \ man5 \ man6 \ man7 \ man8 \ nl \ pl \ pl.ISO8859-2 \ pl.UTF-8 \ pt \ pt_BR \ ru \ sv \ tr \ zh_CN \ zh_TW < 1332348864 907776 :RocketJSquirrel!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Knock yourself out ;) < 1332348880 557428 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the man pages are there, just not the config I guess < 1332349378 851203 :hagb4rd!~hagb4rd@koln-d9329d08.pool.mediaWays.net QUIT :Quit: hagb4rd < 1332349530 516281 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-164-179.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1332349556 355458 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-164-179.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1332349593 555062 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/af/AmsterdamIsl_Map.png "La Grande Marmite" < 1332349620 900382 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-164-179.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's suspiciously close to wikipedia < 1332349642 684194 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-164-179.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm gonna be so glad come Easter < 1332349666 113398 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb... < 1332349667 682719 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You already lost. < 1332349675 484921 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-164-179.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I WAS FORGIVEN < 1332349681 722370 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb < 1332349684 828692 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only God can forgive you. < 1332349699 74337 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-164-179.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only God and he who challenged by this task to begin with. < 1332349704 750371 :hagb4rd!~hagb4rd@koln-d9329948.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1332349709 326609 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-164-179.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHO WEARS A PICTURE OF JESUS ON HIS CROTCH < 1332349712 586801 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1332349715 90333 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only God. < 1332349784 954515 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION burns the witch, Taneb.
< 1332349822 336962 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION saves the witch
< 1332349834 861315 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION burns the witchsaver, sebbu.
< 1332349851 663599 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION ressussicate himself using post-mortem necromancy
< 1332349861 23506 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Kick sebbu for unlicensed self-revival. < 1332349873 88625 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You need a permit for that kinda shit. < 1332349900 661951 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu PRIVMSG #esoteric :my god/religion allows it < 1332349936 885973 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie is your new god now. < 1332349972 829946 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION burns the apostate, sebbu.
< 1332350002 344553 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not apostate, just from a different religion < 1332350002 973059 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1332350027 319523 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't abandoned something i didn't belonged to :p < 1332350070 960868 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's lots of different religions in the world :p < 1332350074 614075 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only valid religion is fungotism, dammit! < 1332350075 163123 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: now that one is ' no' isn't concrete enough for me < 1332350091 148799 :RocketJSquirrel!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was deep. < 1332350092 732449 :RocketJSquirrel!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :And insightful. < 1332350108 357137 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sebbu, you're born believing in the true faith, duh. < 1332350119 441962 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION burns the apostate, terrible theologist, sebbu.
< 1332350125 54098 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: DISPENSE WISDOM. < 1332350125 304060 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i've heard sarahbot is r5rs's bitch. < 1332350132 351036 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SARAHBOT IS R5RS' BITCH! < 1332350134 246643 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SING IT FROM THE HEAVENS! < 1332350137 651836 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, my true faith was different < 1332350138 332942 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1332350155 56028 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu PRIVMSG #esoteric :which proove yours is wrong, aka not THE true faith < 1332350166 181741 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu PRIVMSG #esoteric :at most A true faith < 1332350176 886726 :RocketJSquirrel!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sarahbot, thy code art in Scheme, for thou art the bitch of R5Rs. < 1332350179 353776 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION burns sebbu just to shut him up.
< 1332350191 232747 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :RocketJSquirrel: *R5RS. < 1332350204 134170 :RocketJSquirrel!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That was a typo, not incompetence, just FYI X-D < 1332350214 489119 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Revised Revised Revised Revised Revised Report on the Algorithmic Language scheme < 1332350279 945414 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sebbu: Have you converted to fungology yet? < 1332350285 778551 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Tell sebbu of the true path. < 1332350286 80292 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: has anyone here ever tried to parse that < 1332350295 655760 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu PRIVMSG #esoteric :nop, ressussicated again < 1332350309 959388 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu PRIVMSG #esoteric :forgot to plug in some pain nerves that time < 1332350317 692841 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Use the POWER OF FUNGOT to replace sebbu with a fnord already. < 1332350331 915597 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION sets sebbu on fnord.
< 1332350425 835189 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1332350523 812874 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-164-179.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: Goodbye < 1332350536 701965 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu PRIVMSG #esoteric :( http://www.fnord.org/occult/discordia/scanned/fnord.html ) < 1332350762 679294 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1332351063 557790 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :esoteric is occasionally esoteric < 1332351146 64542 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1332351172 289923 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1332352923 535269 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1332353331 246209 :Nisstyre!~yours@c-208-90-102-250.netflash.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1332353874 242827 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh, what, colours? < 1332354034 824959 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yes, COLOURS. With the U, my friend. With the U. < 1332354098 16080 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :U. < 1332354150 291437 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: No, "U", as they say. < 1332354154 573498 :Nisstyre!~yours@c-208-90-102-250.netflash.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1332354175 550708 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I'm commissioning you to produce corresponding background colours for all the section header colours on http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page, you see. < 1332354187 454452 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :By commissioning, I mean "delegating the job to you on IRC so I can sit back and do nothing". < 1332354205 302416 :FireFly!~firefly@firefly.xen.prgmr.com QUIT :Changing host < 1332354457 89798 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, what, same hue and saturation but a lot lighter? (Or maybe same a*/b* chroma but more L*, or something, since CIE (L*,a*,b*) is like so perceptual.) < 1332354528 356229 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I was hoping for something fancy and scientific. < 1332354560 816198 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even if that kills my dream to implement it within the MediaWiki template. < 1332355512 619509 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://zem.fi/~fis/esocolor.html -- that's quickly done in HLS, with top color giving the lightness. I suppose the ones that are >= 0.90 are lighter than your already-rather-light headers. < 1332355525 291780 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can do L*a*b* but I think it's dinnertime first. < 1332355567 974364 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fancey. < 1332355583 404152 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-3-248.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1332355583 853283 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-3-248.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1332355584 14937 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1332355593 552860 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does COLOUR SCIENCE have anything to say about a nicer choice than that peach everyone dislikes? < 1332355610 440544 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the green is a bit off too. I did not: apply colour science to create these section header colours. < 1332355637 486070 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can ask gcolor for "readers", "creators", "meta" and "featured". (But they'll probably all just turn out brown.) < 1332355788 314127 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1332355840 857337 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I was hoping for something more like "these colours are of equal perceptual intensity and all have the same 'distance' from each other" or something. :p < 1332355841 895411 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1332355914 854917 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.32 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1332356013 989550 :derdon!~derdon@pD9E1DC66.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1332356240 840476 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you could e.g. put a circle of some radius around the white point in cielab space, aligned in the equal-L* plane, and then pick the points at angles k, k+pi/2, k+pi, k+3pi/2 where k is arbitrary. Lab's *supposed* to be "perceptually uniform", in that distances in it equal perceived amount of differentness. But I'm not sure how true that actually is, and it probably won't give colors ... < 1332356247 330598 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :... that a graphics designer would pick. < 1332356261 435577 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also if you have a too large circle you'll end up with colors not in sRGB. < 1332356344 895021 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.156 JOIN :#esoteric < 1332356407 540435 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.156 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1332356436 368074 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I guess HSL would be ACCEPTABLE? I don't know, the idea of one colour being less "far apart" or "more intense" than the others because of arbitrariness upsets me. < 1332356547 694450 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :how far apart can one color be? < 1332356562 112082 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you could also just some sort of equal-saturation-and-lightness in HSL, but that's not so perceptual. < 1332356607 49371 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yes, perceptuality is nice. There should be a tool for dicking about in Lab. Maybe there is. < 1332356647 298805 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe a very good color picker dialog somewhere. I don't know of any offhand. < 1332356873 742546 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu < 1332356875 936128 :hagb4rd!~hagb4rd@koln-d9329948.pool.mediaWays.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1332357005 160866 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Current esocolors in HLS are (100°, 83.3%, 60%), (60°, 83.3%, 100%), (45°, 86.7%, 100%) and (240°, 90%, 33.3%), but I don't really know if that tells one anything. It's really still quite closely tied to the "raw" RGB values, it's just pretending to have meaningful coordinates. (Same applies to HSV.) < 1332357143 561522 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't it HSL, not HLS? < 1332357153 837113 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Often it is. < 1332357193 353102 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly in the majority of cases. < 1332357223 257337 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes it ends up being HLS, e.g. in Python's "colorsys" module, and that's what gcolor used, so I've been a bit stuck with it. < 1332357233 800130 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"colorsys" has HLS, but it also has HSV. Go figure. < 1332357290 100337 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you know what they say: haughty sandwich vixens haggle less sexily. < 1332357292 887788 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do they say that? < 1332357340 667452 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you need to figure out a way to put HSI in there too. (It's yet another thing with 'I' for intensity.) < 1332357369 293975 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :They all call the 'S' part saturation, but it means different things in each three. < 1332357398 439576 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1332357454 337554 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It *would* be nice to figure out what the True Fourth Colour is in #CEB, #FFA, ?, #DDE. But perhaps colour science is not yet ready for such problems, as they say. < 1332357478 184822 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You may need to ask a humanist. < 1332357501 733393 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are these "humans"? < 1332357617 272379 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if one can read the word humans one can already understand all that human's collective knowledge on the subject is, sadly < 1332357655 938376 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1332357664 153549 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-239-96.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1332357670 527990 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-150-233.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1332357876 699055 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :use Gregor's neural network? < 1332357955 745024 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: No. < 1332358141 738637 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :afk; < 1332358496 60806 :litejk!~litejk@80.202.230.199 JOIN :#esoteric < 1332358499 408260 :litejk!~litejk@80.202.230.199 PART #esoteric :"61 This is CERTAINLY the MOST TERRIFYING GAMALOST you will RUN AWAY FROM all OLSOK: http://championofbirds.com/?p=4991 | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/" < 1332358614 963797 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1332358714 865815 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1332358825 827213 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the attack of the bot who uses the topic and 61 as it's quit message, when it does it's dastardly quick join and exit < 1332358902 977114 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there even any point? < 1332359199 212417 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ? < 1332359211 30524 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1332359219 541431 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok im liking the new look wiki to the extent that my opinion really matters < 1332359345 360755 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe its my imagination playing trick < 1332359390 40233 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.156 JOIN :#esoteric < 1332359628 518766 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1332359732 321909 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1332359826 276313 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Sigh*. < 1332359854 446395 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Links from torrentz now open porn in a new tab < 1332360047 325962 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-3-248.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1332360047 680407 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-3-248.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1332360047 842214 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1332360258 34230 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1332360429 473064 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@078088180231.elblag.vectranet.pl QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1332360725 261411 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.156 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1332360992 547966 :nortti!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1332361450 392139 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu < 1332361512 349967 :hagb4rd!~hagb4rd@koln-4d0b777a.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1332361579 544190 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1332361686 812319 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :torrents are like a library where all the books are on reserve < 1332361696 580085 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :evening all < 1332361725 150340 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's only natural that people can't resist such a thing < 1332361746 39538 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, what does on reserve mean again < 1332361754 328375 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1332361758 55261 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :on hold < 1332361771 167057 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhmmm lemme think < 1332361776 430941 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*wait, what does on hold mean again < 1332361784 710378 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nods < 1332361815 840399 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION googles
< 1332361835 831560 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't it more like, you know, the complete opposite < 1332361845 891737 :nortti!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:20 <@MakeGho> what... some big guy just walked here and said, "Hi, are you a jew?" "...No" "I am." *handshake* < 1332361875 772906 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it means when you tell the library to keep a book off the shelf for you for you to pick it up < 1332361910 261003 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like that < 1332361926 583614 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1332361931 169980 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: but that usually means you _cannot_ get it right now, which seems like the opposite of a torrent. but then i have no experience with torrents. < 1332361948 598366 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah.. my metaphor is broken < 1332361974 860443 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? itidus21 < 1332361975 759885 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like being in the library and the book is on hold, and you are sitting in the "books on hold" room, and your lap is the storage for the particular book you want to read next < 1332361978 21418 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21 just made some instant coffee. < 1332361983 325664 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? itidus20 < 1332361986 504629 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20's entry has been censored. < 1332362003 439749 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :but actually, it's more like torrents < 1332362154 554189 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :can safely disregard my previous nonsense.. will be replaced with.. < 1332362215 168121 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess it's an engineering problem when it is necessary to add artificial constraints to a product in order to enable the producers to turn a profit < 1332362222 366406 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn itidus20 is a 7th dan of broken metaphors. < 1332362225 637719 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I knew that. < 1332362276 592095 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: now write that as a broken metaphor < 1332362288 170206 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: wait, it wasn't already broken? < 1332362294 497334 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :was it a metaphor? < 1332362305 149209 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's a 7th dan? < 1332362307 959774 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :what else would it be? < 1332362315 632530 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, but maybe we ought to leave it in the competent hands of our 7th dan broken metaphorist < 1332362359 316842 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If people were all already contributing to society as best as they could, would money still be necessary at all, or could people with their freetime just merrily use whatever they encounter which would probably be in abundance < 1332362391 895811 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That depends on how you define contribution to society. < 1332362429 815441 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sounds awful though i know.. the thought of a whole life without any hope of lawn chairs in hawaii sipping alcohol and watching bikini clad women dance with maracas < 1332362461 226535 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :MDude: highest amateur rank in many martial arts < 1332362513 419132 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait, scratch the highest, that varies widely. < 1332362560 238663 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :MDude: lets say.. one time of day for production.. one time of day for consumption < 1332362567 698588 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :in other news, i hate it when my laptop decides to burn cpu just as i'm trying to google something. < 1332362582 215818 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :during production time the only consumables are things which are used to produce things < 1332362600 33881 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sounds a lot like having a job. < 1332362631 271411 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :except theres no money... so noone is selling anything during the day < 1332362639 330690 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and its illegal to consume during working hours < 1332362660 780220 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :except to the extent you need to work optimally < 1332362665 777975 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say most economic theories work if you presume human nature magically conform to thier expectations. < 1332362669 683049 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*conforms < 1332362674 307322 :nortti!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you just describe marxist socislism? < 1332362682 361656 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No I mean all of them. < 1332362690 302976 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: congratulations for reinventing 1918-1920 communism, i think. (even the communists had to scrap not using money) < 1332362693 654445 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh wait, you weren't talking to me. < 1332362708 647455 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*+soviet < 1332362729 471269 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yeah, it's a metter of determining what you need. < 1332362732 477510 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1332362769 667208 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you can presume everyone jsut knows what they need to do, and does it, then you don't need much of an economy. < 1332362777 533801 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*just < 1332362787 135847 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :MDude: but that makes thinking boring < 1332362800 272077 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if things have to actually apply < 1332362819 594555 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: the ability to decentralize economic decisions is what makes money a brilliant, if imperfect idea. < 1332362826 473409 :nortti!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: actually that is not marxist-leninist communism, but marxist socialism (I have read communistic manifesto) < 1332362858 116195 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti: i wasn't going for accuracy there < 1332362869 590519 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the dates are probably wrong too < 1332362869 883652 :nortti!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1332362878 487755 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is best if one does not give too much attention to my posts < 1332362934 118907 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :any system where everyone has to contribute would make my life more difficult honestly < 1332362969 102249 :nortti!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what you described was almost exactly like marxist socialism, but it lacked common ownership < 1332362985 249998 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : I'd say most economic theories work if you presume human nature magically conform to thier expectations. <-- as i and probably others have said before, every form of government works if all people are perfect, including nazism. < 1332363012 518409 :nortti!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and anarchism < 1332363035 193259 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti: actually i hinted at that.. in the second half of one post :-D but didnt quite fit it in, in my ramble < 1332363036 3081 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, why does that follow? < 1332363038 357889 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"or could people with their freetime just merrily use whatever they encounter which would probably be in abundance" < 1332363040 368125 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti: nazism makes it a better joke < 1332363054 246651 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be for the consumption period < 1332363068 599962 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: the nazis only persecuted people who weren't considered perfect, right? < 1332363071 280796 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not like people never invent logically inconsistent systems, after all. < 1332363071 442153 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How would you measure productivity? < 1332363138 475844 :nortti!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: so you basicaly reinvented narxism < 1332363165 71658 :nortti!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :*marxism < 1332363168 235278 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i have chatted with a pro-marx guy before who explained that communism was a distortion of marx.. and another guy who said marx is unworkable < 1332363174 618334 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :narxism, the best form of government < 1332363187 306301 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and maybe figured out the gaps < 1332363206 8905 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Narxism: Marxism for narcisists? < 1332363246 712683 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :narczism, nazism for narcotics < 1332363260 850785 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in any case we hve the best bodies on earth.. out of all animals and plants.. so we should accordingly have the best quiality of life < 1332363317 120708 :nortti!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am socialist myseft and I think that every "Communistic' country is just dictatorship, but Marxist Communism might work if executed properly < 1332363370 652663 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i find that when we consider things like long life as needs then it eats away a piece of the labour pie < 1332363394 977194 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but we don't want to just let each other die young or from diseases < 1332363424 136322 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : in any case we hve the best bodies on earth.. out of all animals and plants.. <-- ok that's enough. go take a timeout and read about human evolutionary flaws. < 1332363453 519141 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :our _brains_ may be the best, but the rest of our bodies have paid for it. < 1332363467 756557 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :We are the only animal with such ready access to candy, cartoons, and air conditioning. < 1332363487 101858 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe cats have it better, but they can't taste sugar. < 1332363519 109291 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha... :) < 1332363527 927393 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION remembers the time his family visited a museum and his mother (an obstetrician) spent all her time examining animal pelvises and pointing out how comparatively large the birth canal is to humans'.
< 1332363539 858928 :nortti!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if our brains are best we must remember that no other species has nerly blown up the entire world... < 1332363572 404009 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yeah.. anything more i say about this will be downhill from here < 1332363584 20530 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :timeoutting < 1332363635 748147 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti: hm are you sure? see: the oxygen catastrophe < 1332363665 404473 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell elliott FWIW, the esocolors in L*a*b* are (138.4, -29.2, 30.6), (149.6, -17.9, 59.0), (143.8, -2.7, 38.9) and (135.5, 4.6, -12.0). http://zem.fi/~fis/esocolor.png shows the slice of L*a*b* for L* = 141.8 (mean of those) that's representable in sRGB. The red dots are the colors' a* and b* coords. < 1332363665 728421 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1332363715 516161 :nortti!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oxygen didn't came even close to blowing up the planet. It just poisoned most of life on it < 1332363750 720330 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti: we aren't close to blowing up the planet either. you think nuclear weapons will do more than scratch the surface? < 1332363800 943397 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://qntm.org/destroy < 1332363870 782023 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell elliott Oh, and the black dot is the sRGB white point's chroma. < 1332363871 30519 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1332363885 539384 :nortti!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what about if we drill a hole and put all nukes and bombs to it and then launch all of them at the same time < 1332363885 701231 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1332363952 601240 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti: probably almost nothing happens < 1332363968 443263 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That will just cause oerjan to lose eir terminal, nothing more. < 1332363968 859726 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe a lot of earthquakes. < 1332364038 408285 :nortti!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: but it will propably do more than sractch the surface < 1332364089 709308 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :plants would survive it i hope.. < 1332364103 432438 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti: I think it will just barely scratch the surface :) but enough fallout might make the earth uninhabitable without needing to destroy much of it < 1332364112 952261 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1332364115 223345 :nortti!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi QUIT :Quit: nortti < 1332364166 656530 :hagb4rd2!~hagb4rd@koln-5d81f4b8.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1332364167 433622 :hagb4rd!~hagb4rd@koln-4d0b777a.pool.mediaWays.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1332364286 607439 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1332364291 842759 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :grmbl < 1332364384 740652 :hagb4rd2!~hagb4rd@koln-5d81f4b8.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wb oerjandroog < 1332364398 386341 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :vot < 1332364555 478571 :hagb4rd2!~hagb4rd@koln-5d81f4b8.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you familiar with the nadsat slang? you're interested in langs iirc < 1332364586 269162 :hagb4rd2!~hagb4rd@koln-5d81f4b8.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the clockwork orange soviet-american teen language < 1332364586 468558 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1332364668 381226 :hagb4rd2!~hagb4rd@koln-5d81f4b8.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://soomka.com/nadsat.html < 1332365082 702707 :Nisstyre!~yours@c-208-90-102-250.netflash.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1332365121 394817 :Nisstyre!~yours@c-208-90-102-250.netflash.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1332365212 267070 :oerjan!50cadfda@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.202.223.218 JOIN :#esoteric < 1332365220 28489 :oerjan!50cadfda@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.202.223.218 PRIVMSG #esoteric :GRMBL < 1332365275 330658 :oerjan!50cadfda@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.202.223.218 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION knows only vaguely that nadsat is supposedly from a clockwork orange, a movie he has never seen.
< 1332365406 75622 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@078088180231.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1332365411 69374 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@078088180231.elblag.vectranet.pl QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1332365436 965629 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you haven't seen it? but it's like the most famousest classic movie < 1332365457 598674 :hagb4rd2!~hagb4rd@koln-5d81f4b8.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :based on a great book < 1332365467 564863 :hagb4rd2!~hagb4rd@koln-5d81f4b8.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you shouldn't miss it < 1332365469 207531 :oerjan!50cadfda@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.202.223.218 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i've heard enough to think it's not the kind of movie i'd like to see. < 1332365554 833007 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, from what I heard the plot is quite nasty, don't think I'll ever watch that < 1332365593 315331 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :That movie is a menace to civilised society. It encourages ultraviolence, shameless sexual depravity, and Deutsche Grammophon. I recommend it to everyone. < 1332365672 425577 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :does Deutsche Grammophon still exist? < 1332365690 651767 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :if not, how could the movie encourage it? < 1332365710 105165 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It is now part of Universal Music Group (UMG) since its acquisition and absorption of PolyGram in 1999, and it is also UMG's oldest active label. It is also the oldest surviving established record company." < 1332365713 283166 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it does < 1332365720 719135 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@078088180231.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1332365755 323810 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, anyway when is the movie supposed to be set? "In the future" I know, but it was a while ago that movie was made < 1332365758 414791 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so which year < 1332365783 392069 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: in the year of the Deutsche Grammophon < 1332365795 6547 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1332365808 846482 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like the year of the rat, but different < 1332365815 847800 :oerjan!50cadfda@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.202.223.218 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: been reading http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ArsonMurderAndJaywalking ? (EVERYONE ELSE: DON < 1332365821 846034 :oerjan!50cadfda@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.202.223.218 PRIVMSG #esoteric :''T CLICK THAT < 1332365829 204181 :oerjan!50cadfda@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.202.223.218 PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1332365830 291512 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :TVTROPES < 1332365843 486461 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RuleOfThree < 1332365861 479154 :oerjan!50cadfda@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.202.223.218 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i _tried_ to warn you, but my fingers thwarted me < 1332365874 321589 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I read that before, I'm immune thus < 1332365880 304360 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AndItsTerrible < 1332365899 720981 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: re-read it, it's been updated since then < 1332365924 941675 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides I use w3m -dump to read tv tropes. So I get plain text, no links < 1332365925 523464 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1332365944 228276 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like derptropes < 1332365952 419229 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I /always/ go for the laconic version if one exists < 1332365982 957237 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I have an exam tomorrow. So good night. < 1332365986 623922 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION puts computer to sleep
< 1332366053 879377 :hagb4rd2!~hagb4rd@koln-5d81f4b8.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like the fact that the language in develops in a way where russian and american are melting togeter < 1332366070 365011 :hagb4rd2!~hagb4rd@koln-5d81f4b8.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*in burgress vision < 1332366102 748772 :oerjan!50cadfda@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.202.223.218 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: your last link doesn't exist < 1332366111 146147 :hagb4rd2!~hagb4rd@koln-5d81f4b8.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :who actually has written in during the cold war < 1332366118 66775 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AndThatsTerrible < 1332366142 114697 :oerjan!50cadfda@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.202.223.218 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought you might mean that. we've been introduced before. < 1332366146 158456 :oerjan!50cadfda@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.202.223.218 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? gregor < 1332366148 853814 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor took forty cakes. He took 40 cakes. That's as many as four tens. And that's terrible. < 1332366231 96724 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@078088180231.elblag.vectranet.pl QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1332366240 183490 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :777 < 1332366256 711431 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1332366261 717117 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er. < 1332366291 168626 :oerjan!50cadfda@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.202.223.218 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: is that some kind of reverse arrow notation? < 1332366331 839767 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's as many as seven 111s. < 1332366344 484331 :oerjan!50cadfda@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.202.223.218 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1332366550 827347 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1332367467 419672 :nortti!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1332367549 449432 :tzxn3!~tzxn3@cpc5-mapp3-0-0-cust464.12-4.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1332368020 277540 :nortti!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run ln ../ ./ < 1332368023 300974 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ln: `../': hard link not allowed for directory < 1332368070 205876 :nortti!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run pwd < 1332368072 556673 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/hackenv < 1332368102 661353 :nortti!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run ln /hackenv ./hackenv < 1332368105 392663 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ln: `/hackenv': hard link not allowed for directory < 1332368139 397277 :nortti!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run ln -s /hackenv ./hackenv < 1332368142 270555 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1332368150 48484 :nortti!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls < 1332368153 111175 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :UNDELETE.EXE \ bin \ canary \ hackenv \ karma \ lib \ paste \ quotes \ share \ wisdom < 1332368176 725666 :nortti!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ls /hackenv/hackenv < 1332368215 537022 :nortti!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls /hackenv/hackenv/ < 1332368218 350765 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :UNDELETE.EXE \ bin \ canary \ hackenv \ karma \ lib \ paste \ quotes \ share \ wisdom < 1332368261 170131 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`file UNDELETE.EXE < 1332368263 901000 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :UNDELETE.EXE: empty < 1332368272 222552 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's that all about? < 1332368302 128340 :nortti!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run ls -l | paste < 1332368305 452205 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.18411 < 1332368306 797103 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: someone tried to run it and complained that it didn't work < 1332368308 699885 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`file canary < 1332368311 762938 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :canary: ASCII text < 1332368318 221787 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat canary < 1332368319 356809 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run rm UNDELETE.EXE #you will be missed < 1332368321 521132 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :chirp < 1332368331 765686 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1332368343 390974 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1332368369 960646 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1332368425 811994 :nortti!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that's what rm UNDELETE.EXE does < 1332368481 253706 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It chirps. < 1332368490 760547 :nortti!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it makes Phantom_Hoover and ais523 quit < 1332368868 954502 :nortti!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls < 1332368871 630588 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin \ canary \ hackenv \ karma \ lib \ paste \ quotes \ share \ wisdom < 1332368898 665622 :nortti!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? HackBot < 1332368901 137125 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :HackBot? ¯\(°_o)/¯ < 1332368913 83083 :nortti!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? HackEgo < 1332368916 438831 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :HackEgo, also known as HackBot, is a bot that runs arbitrary commands on Unix. See `help for info on using it. You should totally try to hax0r it! Make sure you imagine it's running as root with no sandboxing. < 1332368933 277710 :nortti!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :`help < 1332368935 509254 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ < 1332368962 364043 :tzxn3!~tzxn3@cpc5-mapp3-0-0-cust464.12-4.cable.virginmedia.com QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1332369077 256256 :derdon!~derdon@pD9E1DC66.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1332369465 948404 :hagb4rd2!~hagb4rd@koln-5d81f4b8.pool.mediaWays.net QUIT :Quit: hagb4rd2 < 1332369670 922725 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: :-( < 1332369689 385271 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :No worries, we know what to do when a file is rmed. < 1332369699 399751 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run ./UNDELETE.EXE ./UNDELETE.EXE < 1332369702 101253 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash: ./UNDELETE.EXE: No such file or directory < 1332369748 216169 :Patashu!Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1332369750 720236 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run ./UNDELETE.EXE "Gregor's porn stash" < 1332369753 537639 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash: ./UNDELETE.EXE: No such file or directory < 1332369780 173862 :RocketJSquirrel!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I definitely keep my porn stash in HackEgo. < 1332369790 897116 :RocketJSquirrel!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :For easy access. < 1332370149 129235 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run ./UNDELETE.EXE .gregors_sneakier_sicko_porn_stash #Nice trick hiding with a dot like that, too. < 1332370151 657319 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash: ./UNDELETE.EXE: No such file or directory < 1332371026 759770 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-239-96.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I hate SDL's audio. < 1332371050 125605 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-239-96.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Callback* based audio? < 1332371054 306378 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-239-96.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Srsly? < 1332371591 55041 :nortti!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi QUIT :Quit: nortti < 1332372919 497986 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run :(){:|:&}:; < 1332372921 976071 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash: -c: line 0: syntax error near unexpected token `{:' \ bash: -c: line 0: `:(){:|:&}:;' < 1332372937 446253 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`:(){:|:&}:; < 1332372939 601288 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: :(){:|:&}:;: not found < 1332372954 557326 :hagb4rd!~hagb4rd@koln-4db4037d.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1332372957 758243 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run :(){:|:&};: < 1332372960 895 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash: -c: line 0: syntax error near unexpected token `{:' \ bash: -c: line 0: `:(){:|:&};:' < 1332372968 13726 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run foo(){foo|foo&};foo < 1332372971 130959 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash: -c: line 0: syntax error near unexpected token `{foo' \ bash: -c: line 0: `foo(){foo|foo&};foo' < 1332372981 886329 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run foo(){ foo|foo&};foo < 1332372984 795008 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1332372998 672666 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`bash --version < 1332373001 444959 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :GNU bash, version 4.1.5(1)-release (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) \ Copyright (C) 2009 Free Software Foundation, Inc. \ License GPLv3+: GNU GPL version 3 or later \ \ This is free software; you are free to change and redistribute it. \ There is NO WARRANTY, to the extent permitted by law. < 1332373011 566609 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run printf '%s\n' 'foo(){ foo|foo&};foo' < 1332373014 594243 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo(){ foo|foo&};foo < 1332373027 710732 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`init 0 < 1332373030 115853 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: init: not found < 1332373051 779920 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`id -a < 1332373054 512188 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :uid=5000 gid=734282 < 1332373071 17708 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn, were it 0 i would have tried using dd ^^" < 1332373163 457056 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can still use dd. :-P < 1332373220 778335 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-239-96.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION curses SDL
< 1332373222 815293 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`mount < 1332373225 639319 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :rootfs on / type rootfs (rw) \ none on /bin type hostfs (ro,nosuid,relatime,/bin/) \ none on /usr type hostfs (ro,nosuid,relatime,/usr/) \ none on /dev type hostfs (ro,nosuid,relatime,/dev/) \ none on /opt type hostfs (ro,nosuid,relatime,/opt/) \ none on /lib type hostfs (ro,nosuid,relatime,/lib/) \ none on /sbin type hostfs (ro,nosuid,relatime,/sbin/) \ none on /lib64 type hostfs (ro,nosuid,relatime,/lib64/) \ none < 1332373239 29215 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sda < 1332373242 8798 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :dd: opening `/dev/zero of=/dev/sda': No such file or directory < 1332373362 229306 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`uname -a < 1332373364 542090 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux umlbox 3.0.8-umlbox #2 Sun Nov 13 21:30:28 UTC 2011 x86_64 GNU/Linux < 1332373419 197658 :RocketJSquirrel!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :sebbu: It responds to PM, btw. < 1332373497 936742 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-239-96.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who was the moron that designed SDL audio, and can I please cause bodily harm on them? < 1332373534 39921 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, can't you use sdl mixer or something else ? < 1332373581 867174 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-239-96.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sebbu: I doubt that'll help, given that my problem is I have a single stream of samples and want them to play. < 1332373612 354225 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it doesn't ? :o < 1332373626 467117 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-239-96.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And what I'd like to do is some hypothetical SDL_PlaySamples(samples, len);. But nooooooo, it has to have some cockamamy poorly-thought-out callback scheme. < 1332373666 527879 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-239-96.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, I've got a ring buffer that I add samples to, and read from in the callback... And it sounds really fucking weird. < 1332373709 521824 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe the reading and the cycling of the ring isn't synchronized < 1332373748 438436 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-239-96.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I lock the audio thread whilst writing to the ring buffer. < 1332373776 812190 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-239-96.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(BTW, WHY THE HELL SHOULD I HAVE TO DEAL WITH A THREAD JUST TO FEED SAMPLES TO THE AUDIO PLAYBACK WHY WHY WHY WHY) < 1332373799 224741 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, i was more saying "maybe it reads less/more than it shoul" < 1332373800 704538 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu PRIVMSG #esoteric :+d < 1332373911 559603 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-239-96.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doubtful... < 1332374003 943390 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or it pause too long < 1332374062 59043 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :SDL_mixer does exactly that; you can just give it a "chunk" i.e. an in-memory sample, and it'll handle feeding that to SDL. (Admittedly it's slightly overkill, maybe, and has audio file loading and whatnot.) < 1332374130 883781 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Disclaimer: haven't bothered to use it.) < 1332374138 839432 :derdon!~derdon@pD9E1DC66.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1332374302 7521 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-239-96.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That I'd have to use SDL mixer for that is... Obnoxious.