00:08:55 <zzo38> In this case it is because first parameter is condition, and then after that is the value in case this condition, and then next condition afterward, etc
00:14:24 <itidus21> yeah.. that makes sense of course.. im just rambling
00:21:44 <zzo38> It is something a bit like Lisp, but it is not like Lisp.
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08:19:21 <Twirt199> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Nonsense_Query_List
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08:21:05 <NSQX> esolangs.org/wiki/Nonsense_Query_List
08:21:22 <NSQX> X http://esolangs.org/wiki/Nonsense_Query_List
08:21:38 <NSQX> How easy or difficult is it to write a Nonsense Query List?
08:25:04 <NSQX> Where's Ehird?
08:26:07 <NSQX> Any opinions on writing Nonsense Query Lists?
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09:01:03 <Taneb> Hello!
09:02:53 <zzo38> Do you know the game consist of, fire, earth, water, air, and the goal of the game is to make more air?
09:03:12 <Taneb> This sounds familiar
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09:19:34 <zzo38> What is a way to represent a form for picture distortion? One idea I have, is using the RGB of a PNG file so that there is relative 12-bits X and Y coordinates on each pixel to tell which one from source to copy? Is there other idea?
09:21:06 <zzo38> (So that, for example, in TeXnicard you can tell it to make the text for the name of the card to be curved, or slanted, and other things like that)
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09:24:12 <zzo38> (Internally in TeXnicard, all pictures are either monochrome bitmaps or grayscale; so you need to copy each channel of RGM into grayscale and vice versa)
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09:28:58 <zzo38> TeXnicard uses floating points for only one purpose. Do you know which one it is?
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11:08:50 <elliott> WHAT THE FUCK HAPPENED TO THE WIKI?!
11:09:10 <elliott> I guess I should block this NSQX person
11:09:30 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: ping
11:09:31 <elliott> fizzie: ping
11:09:33 <elliott> Sgeo_: ping
11:09:34 <elliott> pikhq_: ping
11:09:35 <elliott> olsner: ping
11:09:40 <elliott> monqy: ping
11:09:47 <elliott> fizziew: ping
11:11:03 <elliott> OK, mostly looks like changes to the main page and baffling featured languages changes
11:11:34 <elliott> RocketJSquirrel: ping
11:12:05 <monqy> elliott: hi
11:12:11 <olsner> haha, recent changes
11:12:41 <monqy> best spambot
11:12:59 <elliott> Not a bot, either someone trying to cause chaos or a way, way overenthusiastic person.
11:13:11 <monqy> I take that back
11:13:16 <elliott> I'll get to reverting the mess they made...
11:13:18 <fizzie> elliott: Did you see he tried to find you on here? 
11:13:22 <monqy> not as best as the spambot that removed paragraphs and replaced them with misspelled complements
11:13:26 <fizzie> 10:19 < Twirt199> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Nonsense_Query_List
11:13:27 <elliott> fizzie: Yes, I checked the logs to figure out WTF was going on.
11:13:35 <fizzie> Okays.
11:13:53 <fizzie> (Also as NSQX, I suppose it's the same person.)
11:13:59 <elliott> fizzie: I think a day's block might be in order. ("Assume good faith", and so on.)
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11:15:17 <elliott> /* This was created as a start of porting MediaWiki to support Nonsense Query List databases, which should then be the database type that Esolang's MediaWiki software uses */
11:15:25 <fizzie> I haven't looked at the wiki at all. But yes, sounds like overenthusiasm.
11:16:16 <elliott> Ah, looks like it's the creator of Basic Input/Output Commands.
11:18:43 <elliott> fizzie: I need adult supervision, do I block this guy for a day or not :|
11:18:46 <elliott> You're, like, the maturest op.
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11:19:30 <monqy> hi
11:19:54 <NSQX> Is http://esolangs.org/wiki/LOLCODE now better than a stub?
11:20:02 <NSQX> Also see http://esolangs.org/wiki/Talk:LOLCODE
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11:26:23 <NSQX> What monqy?
11:26:29 <monqy> that's me
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11:27:01 <NSQX> Have you read these two pages, monqy?
11:27:11 <NSQX> Do you think that http://esolangs.org/wiki/LOLCODE is now better than a stub, monqy?
11:27:46 <NSQX> Otherwise, what is the monqy doing?
11:29:22 <monqy> I don;t qnow if i'm qualified to say
11:30:14 <monqy> I don't have much experience with wiki page standards and grading
11:30:19 <monqy> where by much I mean
11:30:20 <monqy> any at all
11:30:41 <fizzie> monqy: But what *is* the monqy doing.
11:31:09 <NSQX> Then is anyone else, like Ehird or Orejan available for reviewing those pages?
11:31:52 <monqy> is being here doing enough
11:32:01 <elliott> I'm ehird. oerjan uses the same name on IRC.
11:32:02 <monqy> I guess I'm looking between the lolcode page and irc
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11:33:11 <NSQX> elliott, do you think that http://esolangs.org/wiki/LOLCODE is now better than a stub?
11:33:23 <elliott> Well, it's certainly larger than most stubs now :)
11:33:28 <elliott> Did you see the message I left you on your user talk page?
11:35:17 <NSQX> "Well, it's certainly larger than most stubs now :)" - does that mean that it is now okay to remove {{stub}} from the page about LOLCODE?
11:35:31 <NSQX> I saw the message you left on my talk page.
11:36:15 <elliott> Well, generally we like to have a relatively complete specification of a language before considering it a non-stub, i.e. examples and the like usually don't count towards non-stubness. But I'm not sure, I'd wait for other people to reply on the talk page for other opinions.
11:36:47 <NSQX> Anyone in the Esolang community will probably just remember this day, a week before April Fools Day, as a very enthusiastic day at Esolang.
11:37:50 <monqy> me too
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11:38:10 <monqy> bye
11:38:24 <elliott> ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
11:38:34 <elliott> i have become
11:38:36 <elliott> entirely semicolons
11:39:06 <Madoka-Kaname> Is that LOLCODE spec right??
11:39:11 <Madoka-Kaname> It lacks both functions and loops.
11:39:23 <elliott> i don't even know what right is any more
11:39:24 <Madoka-Kaname> Meaning that spec is not turing complete, which I'm 99% sure LOLCODE is.
11:39:37 <elliott> but uh http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=LOLCODE&oldid=23618 is what it was before
11:39:45 <elliott> "main" keywords i think it's just a partial list or whatever
11:43:47 <elliott> `addquote <NSQX> Anyone in the Esolang community will probably just remember this day, a week before April Fools Day, as a very enthusiastic day at Esolang.
11:43:56 <elliott> maybe adding a quote will help me understand
11:43:57 <HackEgo> 830) <NSQX> Anyone in the Esolang community will probably just remember this day, a week before April Fools Day, as a very enthusiastic day at Esolang.
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11:46:12 <fizzie> I do wonder if the newly-added libraries are in any standard or implementation, though.
11:46:18 <fizzie> lolcode.com is quite a mess. :/
11:46:56 <fizzie> Last posts on the forum seem to be from early 2009.
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11:52:32 <elliott> fizzie: Well, the "VISIBLE" thing is standard.
11:52:35 <elliott> But the file IO seems: not.
11:52:52 <elliott> fizzie: I'll look into whether the changes are correct later and revert if not.
11:53:20 <fizzie> I was just wondering, since the changelog comment was "-- created a few new LOLCODE libraries --"
11:53:30 <elliott> fizzie: Oh, the Unix one and all that are nonsense.
11:53:35 <elliott> But the STDIO one is at least partially correct.
11:53:58 <elliott> fizzie: The "standard" thing for extensions to other people's languages is to create a new page with them, but I hope you can understand I'm reluctant to suggest that.
11:55:47 <fizzie> I see the looping construct apparated right now.
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12:07:53 <NSQX> Well, people, I only thought of all LOLCODE extensions having similar names to the original C/C++ header filenames, but adding support for code that looks like LOLSPEAK for doing almost the same things as the equivalent C/C++ libraries.
12:08:28 <NSQX> For example, "CAN HAZ STDLIB?" in LOLCODE would be the same as #include <stdlib.h> in C/C++,
12:08:50 <NSQX> "CAN HAZ WCHAR?" in LOLCODE would be the same as #include <wchar.h> in C/C++,
12:09:12 <NSQX> "CAN HAZ IOSTREAM?" in LOLCODE would be the same as #inlcude <iostream> in C/C++,
12:09:34 <NSQX> and "CAN HAZ WINDBLOZE?" in LOLCODE would be the same is "#include <windows.h>" in Microsoft Visual C++
12:10:38 <NSQX> "I HAZ A TIMESTAMP ITZ DA NIX TIMESTMP F DA DAT N TIME NOW/LOL TIMESTAMP R DA NIX TIMESTMP F DA DAT N TIME NOW" in LOLCODE would be the same as "timestamp = time(NULL);" in C/C++
12:11:11 <NSQX> If you don't know what a Unix timestamp is, go to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unix_timestamp .
12:11:25 <monqy> ok
12:11:37 <monqy> but
12:11:37 <monqy> uh
12:11:43 <monqy> why do you mention this
12:14:09 <NSQX> 'PLZ OPEN FILE "C:\autoexec.bat"' in LOLCODE is almost the same as 'file = fopen("C:\autoexec.bat");' in C/C++
12:14:23 <monqy> ok
12:14:33 <NSQX> "PLZ OPEN FILE" is also documented in Wikipedia's article about LOLCODE ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LOLCODE )
12:14:45 <NSQX> That could easily mean it IS standard LOLCODE.
12:14:49 <monqy> my question remains
12:14:51 <monqy> what are you getting at
12:19:24 <Patashu> I need to bring something up
12:19:24 <Patashu> with
12:19:25 <fizzie> According to the official example -- http://lolcode.com/examples/filezorz -- it puts a file handle in the variable, not the contents. But anyway. LOLCODE is so poorly specified; there's just the 1.2 standard, and it's pretty sparse.
12:19:28 <Patashu> the lolcode standardization committee
12:19:31 <Patashu> do you know where to consult with them
12:20:06 <fizzie> Patashu: They have a dead wiki and a dead forum, you could try those.
12:20:15 <Patashu> sorry I'm not into dead people
12:20:17 <Patashu> not -that- way
12:20:43 <monqy> how about the other way
12:20:56 <Patashu> hmmm
12:20:59 <Patashu> I need to think about that a moment
12:21:05 <Patashu> THINK THINK THANK THUNK THONK
12:21:06 <Patashu> nope
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12:21:23 <monqy> hi
12:22:21 <elliott> what's the other way
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12:22:48 <Patashu> you don't want to know
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12:22:54 <elliott> :(
12:24:52 <quintopia> i need to bring down the lolcode standardization committee
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12:32:58 <elliott> @tell ais523 http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/4471
12:32:58 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
12:36:23 <fizzie> http://www.baldursgate.com/news/2012/03/21/baldurs-gate-enhanced-edition-for-ipad-3/ -- didn't someone predict it's a tablet version? 
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12:37:11 <fizzie> (Though maybe that's just in addition to the computaur version.)
12:37:41 <elliott> I predicted, I think. Though I think I was parrotting another prediction.
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12:45:24 <elliott> > mconcat [([],[1],[]), ([1],[],[])]
12:45:25 <lambdabot>   ([1],[1],[])
12:47:18 <elliott> fizzie: Hey, golf me a function to turn [ [ [1], [], [2] ], [ [3,4], [5], [7] ] ] into [ [1,3,4], [5], [2,7] ].
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12:50:25 <elliott> > foldr (zipWith (++)) [[],[],[]] $ [ [ [1], [], [2] ], [ [3,4], [5], [7] ] ]
12:50:27 <lambdabot>   [[1,3,4],[5],[2,7]]
12:51:12 <fizzie> > (\(a,b,c) -> [a,b,c]) . mconcat . ((\[a,b,c] -> (a,b,c)) <$>) $ [ [ [1], [], [2] ], [ [3,4], [5], [7] ] ]  -- to follow your own mconcat, short and simple as anything, HTH.
12:51:14 <lambdabot>   [[1,3,4],[5],[2,7]]
12:52:31 <elliott> :t \ps -> foldr (zipWith (++)) ([] <$ ps) . map (\x -> map (\p -> x <$ guard (p x)) ps)
12:52:32 <lambdabot> forall a. [a -> Bool] -> [a] -> [[a]]
12:54:58 <fizzie> @pl \ps -> foldr (zipWith (++)) ([] <$ ps) . map (\x -> map (\p -> x <$ guard (p x)) ps)
12:54:58 <lambdabot> ap ((.) . foldr (zipWith (++)) . ([] <$)) (map . flip (map . liftM2 (.) (<$) ((guard .) . flip id)))
12:55:16 <fizzie> Aw, I was hoping for much more flips and .s.
12:55:39 <elliott> fizzie: Points if you can tell what that does. :p
12:55:42 <elliott> Without testing it.
12:55:47 <elliott> Or looking anything up.
12:57:25 <fizzie> I could guesstimate directly from the type.
12:59:00 <elliott> fizzie: Hmm, yeah, I shouldn't have done that :t.
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13:03:54 <fizzie> > (flip (map . flip filter)) [odd, even, (>5)] [1..10]  -- I would expect something like that from the :t
13:03:56 <lambdabot>   [[1,3,5,7,9],[2,4,6,8,10],[6,7,8,9,10]]
13:06:03 <elliott> Yes, it's that, except it only tramaverses the lyste wunce.
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13:16:35 <NSQX> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Objective_LOLCODE
13:17:48 <Phantom_Hoover> NSQX, I'd politely ask you to die but elliott would probably yell at me for being mean.
13:18:10 <fizzie> Phantom_Hoover: It's not brainfuck.
13:18:45 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover is a really cheerful person.
13:19:00 <NSQX> There are two variants of LOLCODE: original LOLCODE and Objective LOLCODE
13:19:08 <Phantom_Hoover> Yes; rather than a crappy derivative of an interesting language it's a crappy derivative of the worst thing ever to be called esoteric.
13:20:41 <fizzie> Phantom_Hoover: Objective brainfuck! It's just like brainfuck, except if you have two "+"s consecutively, it does like HQ9++ does.
13:22:22 <fizzie> Anyway regarding Objective LOLCODE, http://lolcode.com/proposals/1.3/bukkit and http://lolcode.com/proposals/1.3/bukkit2
13:22:37 <NSQX> There's no such thing as Objective Brainfuck, or even Objective FALSE, because a programming language made of only symbols can only be esoteric/pointless.
13:22:57 <Phantom_Hoover> Meanwhile LOLCODE is simply pointeless.
13:23:01 <Phantom_Hoover> Also pointless.
13:24:36 <NSQX> However, there is a such thing as Objective LOLCODE because LOLCODE can actually be similar to Ruby or C (just as a LOLSPEAK-like version, that's the only change)
13:25:02 <elliott> That's precisely why most people don't consider LOLCODE a very good esolang.
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13:26:00 <elliott> Well, FSVO "most people" and all that. Uh.
13:27:40 <fizzie> Anyhoo, I think BUKKITs have some sort of a quasi-standard status, being that they're an "official" proposal and have some amount of support in implementations.
13:27:48 <Phantom_Hoover> Most people who *matter*.
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13:56:18 <elliott> fizzie: Where was that trilime SVG?
13:59:18 <fizzie> http://zem.fi/~fis/trili3.svg was the last one.
13:59:27 <fizzie> The Inkscape prototype, I mean.
14:01:06 <elliott> Right.
14:06:52 <elliott> fizzie: Was the colour for each of the limes just a random picking from them, or an average of some kind?
14:12:27 <elliott> "I understand that wikipedia is reluctant to allow its self to be used as a source, but, how can we expect others to take us seriously if we ourselves do not?"
14:22:26 <Slereah> Have you read your SICP today?
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14:37:51 <RocketJSquirrel> That SVG is painfully flat X-D
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14:37:57 <RocketJSquirrel> (Unsurprisingly)
14:38:14 <elliott> RocketJSquirrel: "Flat"?
14:39:48 <RocketJSquirrel> It has no texture.
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14:44:10 <elliott> RocketJSquirrel: Well, yeah.
14:51:08 <elliott> RocketJSquirrel isn't happy enough.
14:52:33 <elliott> @tell ais523 Stop appearing where I least expect you!
14:52:33 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
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15:04:34 <fizzie> I picked a random pixel but from a subjectively more or less "representative" region.
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15:05:04 <fizzie> With emphasis on the 'more or less'.
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15:05:20 <elliott> Well, the colours are certainly "close" in an objective sense, it's just that e.g. the bottom-right one looks more like a strangely dark lime than the reality of a lime of the same colour with a shadow over it.
15:05:30 <elliott> That's what happens when you don't have any detail :P
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15:06:34 <mroman_> there is a two dimensional language with multi-threading support, right?
15:06:39 <mroman_> What was its name again?
15:07:15 <elliott> Uh, Befunge-98?
15:07:18 <elliott> THere are probably several.
15:07:20 <elliott> *There
15:07:21 <fizzie> I'm tempted to mention ATHR at this juncture.
15:07:26 <elliott> How about: don't.
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15:09:43 <fizzie> "Bloated SNUSP" has concurrency too.
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15:13:42 <mroman_> I'm thinking of something based on circuits
15:13:45 <mroman_> including delays
15:15:50 <elliott> There are a few circuity esolangs.
15:15:57 <fizzie> I would think at least some of those support "multithreading" by virtue of everything happening globally so you can have two copies of the same thing and they'll run simultaneously.
15:18:29 <mroman_> I.e you send an information package around
15:18:33 <mroman_> which can be copied
15:18:57 <mroman_> and then you have stations which can inspect packages and stuff like that.
15:19:16 <mroman_> if "+" receives a package, it waits five ticks for another package to arrive
15:19:18 <mroman_> opens them
15:19:31 <mroman_> adds the content together
15:19:44 <mroman_> and sends a new package with the new information
15:20:22 <mroman_> also... that repackaging costs time
15:20:31 <mroman_> so i.e it takes 1 tick to do that
15:21:22 <mroman_> which results in a LOT of timing issues while programming in that language :)
15:21:54 <mroman_> you may need to add extra delays to slow packages down if one would arrive too fast
15:23:38 <mroman_> and packages can crash together :)
15:25:07 <mroman_> (if they cross their ways in the two dimensional space)
15:25:12 <mroman_> which might be very often.
15:25:25 <mroman_> if you can only store data in travelling packages :)
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15:36:09 <mroman_> http://fpaste.org/v7Lg/ <- like that
15:36:25 <mroman_> read takes a package, empties it and fills it with stin
15:36:35 <mroman_> > copies the package and sends the copy to the right
15:36:36 <lambdabot>   Not in scope: `copies'Not in scope: `the'Not in scope: `package'Not in scop...
15:36:42 <mroman_> the original package passes through it
15:37:03 <elliott> It sounds sufficiently similar to My name is Johny, what the F**K????? that I'll just accuse you of plagiarism without trying to understand it :P
15:37:39 <mroman_> what?
15:38:12 <elliott> My name is Johny, what the F**K????? is the name of the esolang I'm legally obligated to create per the Deleted Spam Pages on Esolang Act of 2011.
15:38:14 <elliott> Or was it 2010?
15:38:23 <elliott> 2010.
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16:22:04 <fizzie> Oh, hey.
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16:22:13 <fizzie> Had forgonutted.
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17:13:15 <nortti> what was the time when I left this channel and what was my quit message?
17:16:09 <nortti> ping
17:17:03 <elliott> pong
17:18:54 <nortti> good thing my connection works again. When I used nmap -sO on my router my network connection went away for 20 seconds or so
17:21:09 <Deewiant> nortti: Logs are linked to in the topic
17:23:00 <nortti> oh. That's pretty neat
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17:48:45 <elliott> `run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
17:48:50 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.31451
17:50:22 <elliott> > (\ps -> foldr (zipWith (++)) ([] <$ ps) . map (\x -> map (\p -> x <$ guard (p x)) ps) [even, odd] [0..]
17:50:22 <lambdabot>   <no location info>: parse error (possibly incorrect indentation)
17:50:32 <elliott> > (\ps -> foldr (zipWith (++)) ([] <$ ps) . map (\x -> map (\p -> x <$ guard (p x)) ps)) [even, odd] [0..]
17:50:34 <lambdabot>   *Exception: stack overflow
17:50:38 <elliott> Hmm.
17:50:56 <elliott> > (\ps -> foldr (zipWith (++)) ([] <$ ps) . map (\x -> map (\p -> x <$ guard (p x)) ps)) [even, odd] [0..100]
17:50:57 <lambdabot>   [[0,2,4,6,8,10,12,14,16,18,20,22,24,26,28,30,32,34,36,38,40,42,44,46,48,50,...
17:51:01 <elliott> > (\ps -> foldr (zipWith (++)) ([] <$ ps) . map (\x -> map (\p -> x <$ guard (p x)) ps)) [even, odd] [0..1000]
17:51:02 <lambdabot>   [[0,2,4,6,8,10,12,14,16,18,20,22,24,26,28,30,32,34,36,38,40,42,44,46,48,50,...
17:51:23 <elliott> > let filterMulti fs xs = go (reverse xs) (repeat []) where  go [] acc = acc ;  go (y:ys) acc = go ys $ zipWith (\f a -> if f y then y:a else a) fs acc in filterMulti [even, odd] [0..1000]
17:51:24 <lambdabot>   [[0,2,4,6,8,10,12,14,16,18,20,22,24,26,28,30,32,34,36,38,40,42,44,46,48,50,...
17:51:26 <elliott> > let filterMulti fs xs = go (reverse xs) (repeat []) where  go [] acc = acc ;  go (y:ys) acc = go ys $ zipWith (\f a -> if f y then y:a else a) fs acc in filterMulti [even, odd] [0..]
17:51:34 <lambdabot>   mueval: ExitFailure 1
17:51:34 <lambdabot>  mueval: Prelude.undefined
17:51:43 <elliott> > take 10 . head $ (\ps -> foldr (zipWith (++)) ([] <$ ps) . map (\x -> map (\p -> x <$ guard (p x)) ps)) [even, odd] [0..]
17:51:47 <lambdabot>   mueval-core: Time limit exceeded
17:51:49 <elliott> > take 10 . head $ (\ps -> foldr (zipWith (++)) ([] <$ ps) . map (\x -> map (\p -> x <$ guard (p x)) ps)) [even, odd] [0..]
17:51:53 <lambdabot>   mueval-core: Time limit exceeded
17:52:26 <nortti> what programming language is that?
17:52:49 <elliott> > Haskell.
17:52:50 <lambdabot>   <no location info>: parse error (possibly incorrect indentation)
17:52:51 <elliott> Oops.
17:52:52 <elliott> Haskell.
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18:06:09 <nortti> `run wget http://tsundere.fi/b/vpenis.sh
18:06:12 <HackEgo> ​--2012-03-24 18:06:12--  http://tsundere.fi/b/vpenis.sh \ Connecting to 127.0.0.1:3128... failed: Connection refused.
18:06:35 <fizzie> There's a fetch for that.
18:06:53 <nortti> `run fetch http://tsundere.fi/b/vpenis.sh
18:06:56 <HackEgo> bash: fetch: command not found
18:07:00 <fizzie> No, a command.
18:07:01 <fizzie> `help
18:07:04 <HackEgo> Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`<command>", or "`run <command>" for full shell commands. "`fetch <URL>" downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert <rev>" can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
18:07:16 <nortti> `fetch http://tsundere.fi/b/vpenis.sh
18:07:19 <HackEgo> 2012-03-24 18:07:19 URL:http://tsundere.fi/b/vpenis.sh [317/317] -> "vpenis.sh" [1] 
18:07:50 <nortti> `run chmod 755 vpenis.sh
18:07:53 <HackEgo> No output.
18:08:08 <nortti> `run ./vpenis.sh
18:08:12 <HackEgo> ​./vpenis.sh: 2: bc: not found \ df: cannot read table of mounted file systems: No such file or directory
18:08:14 <elliott> Protip: Whatever you do won't help.
18:08:25 <fizzie> elliott: It's a thing.
18:08:27 <elliott> Oh, that's not trying to be a crack.
18:08:37 <elliott> I was assuming it was one of the: "'sploits" the "kids" were doing "these days".
18:08:57 <nortti> I am trying to run vpenis.sh on HackBot
18:09:03 <elliott> You did.
18:09:09 <fizzie> Sadly, it does assume some sanity from the surrounding system.
18:10:36 <fizzie> There's also been a bit of a length inflation in vpenii these days.
18:11:20 <nortti> It calculates length of virtual penis from processor speed, amount of free memory, disks and uptime
18:11:41 <fizzie> s/calculates/tries to calculate/
18:11:47 <elliott> Well, you know what they say. Obsession of the man is one of the most unknown and frightful phenomena, which stops evolutionary development of the man and brings its to full spiritual (and often to physical) death.
18:13:11 <fizzie> I get 174.1cm at work, 237.1cm at home, and 3383.1cm on the university's shell server. Someone should maybe adjust the constants slightly to match Moore's length. I mean, law.
18:13:37 <elliott> $ curl http://tsundere.fi/b/vpenis.sh | sh
18:13:37 <elliott>   % Total    % Received % Xferd  Average Speed   Time    Time     Time  Current
18:13:37 <elliott>                                  Dload  Upload   Total   Spent    Left  Speed
18:13:37 <elliott> 100   317  100   317    0     0     75      0  0:00:04  0:00:04 --:--:--  2990
18:13:37 <elliott> sh: line 2: bc: command not found
18:13:41 <elliott> I guess my system isn't: sane.
18:13:51 <fizzie> A lack of 'bc' is very much not sane.
18:13:59 <fizzie> What, you do all your calculating with dc? 
18:14:06 <nortti> fizzie: when I ran it on my computer, that is quite obsolete these days after I made it work on Darwin it showed that length of my vpenis is 7633.9cm
18:14:08 <fizzie> (Okay, that's reasonable. But still.)
18:14:23 <elliott> fizzie: I use Google as my calculator. :p
18:14:34 <elliott> $ curl -s http://tsundere.fi/b/vpenis.sh | sh
18:14:34 <elliott> 220.6cm
18:14:43 <elliott> Well, it's not how big it is, it's how you use it.
18:14:44 <fizzie> IIRC it gives rather a lot weight on dick space. I mean, disk space.
18:14:46 <nortti> I could try to make vpenis.sh dc compatible
18:15:12 <fizzie> And of course the uptime thing makes it fluctuate.
18:15:45 <nortti> fizzie: I have just 40GB disk, but my uptime is something like 120 days
18:17:00 <elliott> elliott@solidity:~$ curl -s http://tsundere.fi/b/vpenis.sh | sh
18:17:01 <elliott> 58.8cm
18:17:09 <elliott> I don't like this script.
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18:18:22 <fizzie> The bit where it gives a *2 score when the dick, I mean disk, devices have "/dev/scsi" or "/dev/sd" in them is also pretty obsoletated now that IDE disks are 'sdX' too. Not to mention that my /dev/mapper/ LVM things then don't match.
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18:18:32 <nortti> elliott: did you install bc or is that another machine?
18:19:05 <elliott> I installed bc for:
18:19:06 <elliott> <elliott> $ curl -s http://tsundere.fi/b/vpenis.sh | sh
18:19:06 <elliott> <elliott> 220.6cm
18:19:11 <elliott> But solidity is the server Esolang runs on.
18:19:15 <elliott> Which has dc already, apparently.
18:19:16 <elliott> *bc
18:19:23 <fizzie> fis@iris:~/mem$ sh vpenis.sh 
18:19:23 <fizzie> 27.3cm
18:19:26 <fizzie> Well, now.
18:19:31 <fizzie> (That's the Atom box.)
18:19:52 <elliott> Quick, someone try it on one of those plug computers.
18:20:00 <elliott> Or an Atari.
18:20:14 <fizzie> All the uptime ratings are zeros here thanks to yesterday's electricity break.
18:20:54 <fizzie> fis@selene:~$ sh vpenis.sh 
18:20:54 <fizzie> 23.4cm
18:21:00 <fizzie> The prgmr VPS managed to go even lower.
18:21:12 <fizzie> That's up 104 days, doesn't seem to help much.
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18:21:33 <Deewiant> 2028.6cm
18:21:47 <Deewiant> And cat: cannot open /proc/cpuinfo: No such file or directory
18:22:03 <fizzie> Heh.
18:22:13 <nortti> Deewiant: what OS are you running?
18:22:20 <Deewiant> And sh: line 2: bc: command not found
18:22:43 <Deewiant> And sh: line 2: bc: command not found
18:22:54 <Deewiant> That was desktop, fileserver, firewall, and laptop, respectively
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18:23:08 <Deewiant> nortti: And the non-Linux one was Solaris 11
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18:23:46 <Deewiant> 130.4cm on the laptop after installing bc
18:23:57 <Deewiant> And 55.8cm on the firewall
18:23:59 <fizzie> I'd try it on that silly NAS disk-share box I have, but it's not on, and it's not exactly maybe worth it.
18:24:06 <Deewiant> What does it even do?
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18:24:29 <nortti> Deewian: I'll post the version that doesn't requite /proc shortly
18:24:43 <Deewiant> Ah, it's the -x nfs that's presumably failing
18:24:44 <fizzie> The bit from cpuinfo is "sum of cpu MHz lines / 30".
18:24:47 <Deewiant> And explaining my high score
18:25:00 <Deewiant> df -P -k -x nfs most definitely includes my NFS :-P
18:25:46 <Deewiant> nortti: -x nfs4 required, I guess
18:26:02 <fizzie> Heh, it reports 3726.3cm at work if I don't have "-x nfs" in.
18:26:16 <Deewiant> 674.4cm with the -x nfs4
18:26:24 <elliott> <fizzie> fis@selene:~$ sh vpenis.sh 
18:26:24 <elliott> <fizzie> 23.4cm
18:26:24 <elliott> <fizzie> The prgmr VPS managed to go even lower.
18:26:27 <Deewiant> Still probably counts things multiple times
18:26:30 <elliott> fizzie: Ha, my Linode is "teh superiore", as they say.
18:26:37 <Deewiant> As I have "rootfs" and "/dev/root" in that
18:27:06 <fizzie> Deewiant: There's all kinds of tmpfs things, too, that arguably should maybe not count.
18:27:41 <Deewiant> Yes, tmpfs  and devtmpfs
18:27:53 <fizzie> The bit it needs cpuinfo for is "sum of 'cpu MHz:' lines / 30", which means turning on hyperthreading can double your vpenis size -- well, the CPU part of it -- overnight.
18:27:56 <Deewiant> df -P -k -x nfs -x nfs4 -x tmpfs -x devtmpfs -x rootfs
18:29:05 <Deewiant> On Triton I get (standard_in) 1: syntax error
18:29:28 <fizzie> Deewiant: That's when you have something that gets represented in exponential notation.
18:29:57 <Deewiant> Where?
18:30:12 <Deewiant> Oh, from awk?
18:30:14 <fizzie> By awk, somewhere. Probably in the disk space.
18:30:26 <Deewiant> 3.5864e+06/15+70
18:30:28 <Deewiant> Yeah
18:30:36 <fizzie> Deewiant: E.g. check out this thing:
18:30:38 <fizzie> [htkallas@pc112 ~]$ sh vpenis.sh 
18:30:38 <fizzie> 3726.3cm
18:30:42 <fizzie> [htkallas@pc112 ~]$ ls /share/work/{htkallas,itniemin,mniemenm} >/dev/null 2>&1
18:30:45 <fizzie> [htkallas@pc112 ~]$ sh vpenis.sh 
18:30:48 <fizzie> (standard_in) 1: syntax error
18:30:52 <Deewiant> heh
18:30:53 <fizzie> Automounting the work disk three times was too much for it.
18:32:06 <fizzie> 3.5864e+06/15 would've yielded you 23909.3 cm.
18:32:10 <elliott> What is it with Finns and their having Finnish names?
18:32:56 <Deewiant> 25942.6cm without -x nfs.
18:33:06 <elliott> People use NFS?
18:33:17 <Deewiant> Yes.
18:33:40 <Deewiant> 924.8cm with -x nfs -x lustre. :-P
18:33:50 <nortti> Deewiant: but it must be executed with -x nfs. Otherwise it is not real vpenis.sh
18:34:14 <Deewiant> -x nfs is just a bit arbitrary.
18:34:18 <elliott> Deewiant: Oh, this is on that cluster thing?
18:34:37 <elliott> I mean, that's more plausible than a Finnish home user using NFS, but you never know with them Finns.
18:34:40 <Deewiant> If you want to get rid of remote filesystems, there are more types than that, which seems to include only NFSv3. And then there's the tmpfs stuff mentioned earlier.
18:34:50 <Deewiant> elliott: I use NFS at home.
18:35:07 <Deewiant> The 23909.3 / 25942.6 was on the cluster.
18:35:27 <Deewiant> 2028.6 at home, without -x nfs4.
18:36:14 <Deewiant> And 3726.3 at work from fizzie.
18:36:22 <nortti> wait. Does free command show free memory size in mb?
18:36:29 <elliott> Deewiant: See, you *are* weird.
18:36:32 <elliott> nortti: free -m does.
18:36:49 <Deewiant> nortti: If you just use free, it's in kilobytes.
18:36:53 <fizzie> I used to have some sort of NFS setup at home, too, though not these days. I think it was when I had that sparc.
18:37:08 <Deewiant> elliott: What else should I use on a file server? :-P
18:37:16 <nortti> shit. I calculated my vpenis assuming that is is in mb
18:37:23 <fizzie> Deewiant: Samba, for all your Windows clients.
18:37:41 <Deewiant> fizzie: Yes, but preferably not for my non-Windows clients, methinks.
18:39:15 <fizzie> I have the ~/www/ directory (that maps to β.zem.fi/~fis) shared over Samba, for no particular reason. Though it does have the dubious benefit that after setting up "create mask = 0644" for that share, I never have to remember to chmod files I copy there.
18:40:06 <fizzie> (Samba has those "Unix extensions" things going on, I think you can make it work reasonably well.)
18:40:44 <Deewiant> Would it be an improvement to use it instead of NFSv4? :-P
18:41:17 <nortti> Deewian: does your solaris system have free command?
18:41:20 <fizzie> Mmmaybe not. Though the NFS setup *I* had did break down occasionally.
18:41:45 <Deewiant> nortti: Nope
18:41:54 <Deewiant> nortti:
18:41:56 <Deewiant> % curl -s http://tsundere.fi/b/vpenis.sh | sh
18:41:56 <Deewiant> cat: cannot open /proc/cpuinfo: No such file or directory
18:41:56 <Deewiant> sh: line 2: free: not found
18:41:56 <Deewiant> awk: syntax error near line 1
18:41:58 <Deewiant> awk: illegal statement near line 1
18:42:01 <Deewiant> awk: syntax error near line 1
18:42:03 <Deewiant> awk: bailing out near line 1
18:42:06 <Deewiant> df: unknown option: x
18:42:07 <ion> NSFw4
18:42:08 <Deewiant> Usage: df [-F FSType] [-abeghklntPVvZ] [-o FSType-specific_options] [directory | block_device | resource]
18:43:31 <fizzie> Deewiant: On kosh.org.aalto.fi, it's all "df: `/m/work/a800': Permission denied" for umpzillion lines, but does at least manage to yield a result.
18:43:42 <fizzie> kosh ~ 798 % mount | wc -l
18:43:42 <fizzie> 205
18:43:45 <fizzie> That's a lot of mounts.
18:43:53 <Deewiant> fizzie: What's the vpenis length there?
18:44:18 <Deewiant> kosh.hut.fi gets 1933.0cm
18:44:24 <elliott> <Deewiant> elliott: What else should I use on a file server? :-P
18:44:32 <elliott> Deewiant: I don't know, surely there's something better than NFS by 2012.
18:44:46 <fizzie> Deewiant: 3384.7cm; all the "nfs4" mounts (the not-"nfs" ones) give "permission denied" and thus are not counted.
18:44:59 <elliott> I mean, NFS doesn't even have atomic mkdir!
18:45:10 <nortti> Deewiant: does http://paste.dy.fi/rbV work on your solaris system
18:45:28 <Deewiant> The ZFS stuff on solaris supports NFS (and Samba) directly, which is the main reason why I used that.
18:46:03 <nortti> *http://paste.dy.fi/rbV/plain
18:46:45 <Deewiant> nortti: http://sprunge.us/eSgC
18:47:21 <fizzie> Deewiant: kosh.org.aalto.fi gets 3120 cm of the length from the 96 gigs of RAM it has.
18:47:32 <Deewiant> heh.
18:47:38 <Deewiant> Ooh, that reminds me.
18:47:50 <fizzie> Want to run it on one of the Triton fat nodes?
18:47:57 <Deewiant> Yep
18:48:16 <nortti> Deewiant: you must download it to a file and after that you can run it
18:48:18 <fizzie> That should give about 35000 cm for RAM, except it might awk-break again.
18:48:21 <Deewiant> nortti: Same thing
18:48:51 <Deewiant> Well, it's awk-breaking already due to the df stuff, so I need to printf-ify the awk again.
18:49:24 <fizzie> nortti: You've typoed "MHz" as "HMz" on the line.
18:49:37 <fizzie> nortti: And you can't just count MHz itself, you need to multiply it by the number of cores.
18:49:38 <Deewiant> One permission denied error from df and 29921.8cm
18:50:19 <nortti> fizzie: I created that version for one core machines
18:56:14 <fizzie> Deewiant: Oh, it's so "short" because it's looking at the "used" column, not total.
18:56:29 <fizzie>              total       used       free     shared    buffers     cached
18:56:29 <fizzie> Mem:    1058759152  166124920  892634232          0     251540   15493068
18:56:37 <fizzie> That's mostly free.
18:57:08 <elliott> Does it use the right line?
18:57:13 <Deewiant> Yes.
18:57:16 <elliott> (i.e. without buffers/cached)
18:57:18 <Deewiant> No.
18:58:15 <fizzie> Saunatime. ->
18:59:49 <nortti> Deewiant: http://paste.dy.fi/rGD/plain
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19:03:16 <Deewiant> nortti: http://sprunge.us/ZRfV
19:04:44 <Deewiant> nortti: I'll spoil it for you: that file has DOS newlines hence the complaints about ^M, and your sed and awk usage require GNU sed and GNU awk (so gsed and gawk).
19:04:55 <Deewiant> Then I get 62073.
19:05:53 <Deewiant> Oh, I missed the last sed invocation: that's 6207.3.
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19:44:44 <elliott> #haskell just spent ~10 minutes trying to fix someone's $PATH.
19:44:46 <elliott> Kill me now.
19:48:42 <mroman_> I'll kill you with my language based on binary trees .
19:49:32 <elliott> I'm dead.
19:51:20 <elliott> Hmm, I have this horrible temptation to bring my silly language into existence.
19:54:09 <zzo38> What silly language do you mean?
19:54:39 <elliott> If I tell you, it'll start existing. :(
19:55:54 <elliott> This is a very interesting email: http://www.coyotos.org/pipermail/bitc-dev/2012-March/003300.html
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20:09:28 <shachaf> elliott: HELP MY DOLLAR PATH IS BROKE
20:09:34 <shachaf> FIX IT
20:10:09 -!- oerjan has joined.
20:10:25 <shachaf> fix $PATH = $PATH:$(fix $PATH)
20:10:46 <elliott> hi oerjan
20:10:57 -!- calamari has left ("Leaving").
20:11:05 <oerjan> hi elliott 
20:11:42 <shachaf> oerjan: Tell elliott to tell you to ban me.
20:14:29 <shachaf> elliott: Is it just me, or is little-endian "00 0b" != 11?
20:14:44 <elliott> 0 = 11
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20:21:52 <fizzie> WAR = PEACE.
20:29:03 -!- oerjan has joined.
20:30:14 <oerjan> I have concluded that today is slightly cursed by forces trying to attract my infuriation, the recent wiki events being merely the latest example.  Experience tells me that the only cure for such is to refuse to get involved, which I will promptly put into action.
20:30:43 <oerjan> oh, also, to get enough sugar intake.
20:30:59 * oerjan sips his orange juice.
20:32:09 <oerjan> is it any wonder i keep putting on weight.
20:32:18 <shachaf> elliott: What a spheroidal argument you're having.
20:34:35 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
20:35:29 -!- monqy has joined.
20:35:33 <oerjan> <elliott> fizzie: Hey, golf me a function to turn [ [ [1], [], [2] ], [ [3,4], [5], [7] ] ] into [ [1,3,4], [5], [2,7] ].
20:35:42 <elliott> oerjan: too late.
20:35:53 <oerjan> > map concat . transpose $ [ [ [1], [], [2] ], [ [3,4], [5], [7] ] ]
20:35:54 <lambdabot>   [[1,3,4],[5],[2,7]]
20:36:09 <elliott> oh, that's better than what i ended up with.
20:36:16 <elliott> i forget why i didn't try that.
20:36:21 <oerjan> elliott: heh :P
20:36:25 <elliott> filterN ps = foldr (zipWith (++)) ([] <$ ps) . map (\x -> map (\p -> x <$ guard (p x)) ps)
20:36:31 <elliott> is the end result of the thing that sparked that question.
20:36:45 <elliott> (i am offering prizes for people who figure out what it does without :t.)
20:37:09 <oerjan> elliott: i thought i saw just a bunch of foldr's so thought i'd still have a fighting chance :P
20:37:28 <elliott> I think that transpose might make it less lazy
20:38:39 <oerjan> > transpose [1:2:undefined,[3,4],[5,6]]
20:38:40 <lambdabot>   [[1,3,5],[2,4,6]*Exception: Prelude.undefined
20:38:52 <elliott> > transpose (repeat [1,2])
20:38:53 <lambdabot>   [[1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1...
20:39:20 <elliott> > let filterN ps = map concat . transpose . map (\x -> map (\p -> x <$ guard (p x)) ps) in filterN [even, odd] [1..10]
20:39:22 <lambdabot>   [[2,4,6,8,10],[1,3,5,7,9]]
20:39:39 <elliott> ok, now there's just that ugly map to take care of.
20:39:53 <elliott> > let filterN ps = map concat . transpose . map (\x -> [x <$ guard (p x) | p <- ps]) in filterN [even, odd] [1..10]
20:39:55 <lambdabot>   [[2,4,6,8,10],[1,3,5,7,9]]
20:39:57 <elliott> i suppose that's marginally nicer.
20:40:41 <elliott> hmm.
20:40:57 <elliott> > let filterN ps = transpose . map (\x -> map (\p -> x <$ guard (p x)) ps) in filterN [even, odd] [1..10]
20:40:58 <lambdabot>   No instance for (GHC.Show.Show (f a))
20:40:58 <lambdabot>    arising from a use of `M7605977044...
20:41:02 <elliott> fuck
20:41:07 <elliott> > let filterN ps = transpose . map (\x -> map (\p -> x <$ guard (p x)) ps) in filterN [even, odd] [1..10] :: [[[Integer]]]
20:41:09 <lambdabot>   [[[],[2],[],[4],[],[6],[],[8],[],[10]],[[1],[],[3],[],[5],[],[7],[],[9],[]]]
20:41:22 <elliott> > let filterN ps = transpose . map (\x -> map (\p -> x <$ guard (p x)) ps) in filterN [even, odd] [1..10] :: [[Maybe Integer]]
20:41:23 <lambdabot>   [[Nothing,Just 2,Nothing,Just 4,Nothing,Just 6,Nothing,Just 8,Nothing,Just ...
20:41:32 <elliott> > let filterN ps = map catMaybes . transpose . map (\x -> map (\p -> x <$ guard (p x)) ps) in filterN [even, odd] [1..10] :: [[Maybe Integer]]
20:41:33 <lambdabot>   No instance for (GHC.Real.Integral
20:41:33 <lambdabot>                     (Data.Maybe.Maybe GH...
20:41:35 <elliott> > let filterN ps = map catMaybes . transpose . map (\x -> map (\p -> x <$ guard (p x)) ps) in filterN [even, odd] [1..10] :: [[Integer]]
20:41:37 <lambdabot>  Terminated
20:41:38 <elliott> wtf
20:41:39 <elliott> > let filterN ps = map catMaybes . transpose . map (\x -> map (\p -> x <$ guard (p x)) ps) in filterN [even, odd] [1..10] :: [[Integer]]
20:41:40 <lambdabot>   [[2,4,6,8,10],[1,3,5,7,9]]
20:42:34 <elliott> hmph
20:42:50 <oerjan> oh it's supposed to work for more than the list monad?
20:43:14 <elliott> nope
20:43:18 <oerjan> ok
20:43:25 <elliott> i'm just trying to come up with a pretty implementation of [a -> Bool] -> [a] -> [[a]]
20:43:29 <elliott> with the obvious presented semantics
20:43:38 <elliott> i didn't think that last one was aesthetically pleasing enough.
20:43:42 <elliott> > let filterN ps = map catMaybes . transpose . map (\x -> map (\p -> x <$ guard (p x)) ps) in filterN [even, odd] [1..] :: [[Integer]]
20:43:44 <lambdabot>   [[2,4,6,8,10,12,14,16,18,20,22,24,26,28,30,32,34,36,38,40,42,44,46,48,50,52...
20:43:49 <elliott> yay, at least that works now
20:45:07 <elliott> > let filterN ps = transpose . map catMaybes . map (\x -> map (\p -> x <$ guard (p x)) ps) in filterN [even, odd] [1..] :: [[Integer]]
20:45:09 <lambdabot>   [[1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24,25,26,27,2...
20:45:13 <elliott> oh duh
20:46:09 <oerjan> > (flip . map filter) [even, odd] [1..10]
20:46:11 <lambdabot>   [[2,4,6,8,10],[1,3,5,7,9]]
20:46:20 * oerjan whistles innocently
20:47:14 <elliott> oerjan: um yes that's obvious.
20:47:22 <elliott> oerjan: it traverses the list multiple times.
20:47:24 <oerjan> > (sequence . map filter) [even, odd] [1..10] -- slightly more portable, i think
20:47:26 <lambdabot>   [[2,4,6,8,10],[1,3,5,7,9]]
20:47:27 <elliott> (and therefore has bad space usage.)
20:47:30 <oerjan> oh.
20:47:49 -!- augur has joined.
20:48:20 <tswett> Sgeo_: hey, can you do something for me?
20:48:36 <Sgeo_> Depends on what that thing is
20:48:57 -!- asiekierka has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
20:49:25 <Sgeo_> tswett?
20:50:36 <oerjan> tswett is now seeking for someone else to hide the body.
20:50:47 <tswett> Sgeo_: try ending all your sentences with periods for a while.
20:51:11 <Sgeo_> What about interrogative sentences?.
20:51:11 <elliott> Even the questions.
20:51:15 <elliott> Snap.
20:51:18 <elliott> Exclamation.
20:51:23 <oerjan> why would he do that.
20:51:32 <tswett> I'm just going to say that ? incorporates a little period in it.
20:51:40 * tswett RUNS.
20:52:13 <Sgeo_> So, I can't use American-style quotes?
20:52:27 <elliott> Which style is that?
20:52:28 <Sgeo_> "The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog.".
20:52:31 <elliott> One of them is stupid and nobody should use them.
20:52:33 <elliott> No, that's neither.
20:52:35 <elliott> That's Dijkstra-style.
20:52:49 <Sgeo_> Quote mark after puctuation.
20:52:59 <Sgeo_> But since tswett wants me to end sentences with periods...
20:53:13 <elliott> Quote mark after punctuation is abominable, unless the punctuation itself is part of the quote.
20:53:18 <elliott> Anyone who does it should be "shot."
20:53:28 <oerjan> like shot, but more final.
20:53:32 <Sgeo_> "How are you?", she asked.
20:54:18 <elliott> That comma is stupid.
20:54:21 <elliott> I'm going to kill that comma.
20:54:25 <elliott> Get rid of it.
20:54:39 <elliott> That's like "Oranges, ate sam." Okay, maybe it's not so bad.
20:54:44 <elliott> But I'm eyeing it suspiciously.
20:55:26 <shachaf> That comma belongs there.
20:55:57 <elliott> Yes, maybe it does; but I'm still allowed to be suspicious of it.
21:04:31 <oerjan> > let filterN ps = transpose . map catMaybes . map ((<$)<$>guard.p<$>ps) in filterN [even, odd] [1..10]
21:04:32 <lambdabot>   Couldn't match expected type `[Data.Maybe.Maybe a]'
21:04:32 <lambdabot>         against inferre...
21:04:38 <oerjan> gah
21:04:47 <oerjan> > (0$0<$>)
21:04:48 <lambdabot>   The operator `Data.Functor.<$>' [infixl 4] of a section
21:04:48 <lambdabot>      must have lowe...
21:05:01 <oerjan> oh wait
21:11:54 <zzo38> I agree; punctuations marks should be inside of the quotation marks only in case the punctuation is part of a quotation.
21:12:29 <zzo38> (Sometimes known as "British style" or "logical style")
21:13:41 <pikhq> And then there's "programmer style". This is a nice example: "I for one think punctuation is attached to a sentence, so it shouldn't really be dropped just because it's in a quote.".
21:19:30 <itidus21> hmm
21:20:18 <oerjan> > let filterN ps = transpose . map catMaybes . map ((<$> ps) . flip (((<$)<$>).(guard.)) in filterN [even, odd] [1..10]
21:20:19 <lambdabot>   <no location info>: parse error on input `in'
21:20:21 <itidus21> "How are you?/0what a boring day *hic*", she asked.
21:20:32 <oerjan> > let filterN ps = transpose . map catMaybes . map ((<$> ps) . flip (((<$)<$>).(guard.))) in filterN [even, odd] [1..10]
21:20:33 <lambdabot>   Couldn't match expected type `Data.Maybe.Maybe a'
21:20:33 <lambdabot>         against inferred ...
21:20:40 * oerjan gives up.
21:20:57 <elliott> you certainly managed to make it more.
21:21:04 <oerjan> indeed.
21:21:05 <elliott> more elegant, I'm not so sure about.
21:21:07 <elliott> but more.
21:21:42 <nortti> Deewiant: I was away watching Stargate SG-1. The dos newlines thing is quite interesting. (The script was written for Linux, and after that I ported it for Darwin 8/OS X 10.4 so it might misbehave in Solaris.)  Do you have any idea why gawk and gsed don't try to emulate standard wak and sed behavior when called with those name?
21:22:01 <Deewiant> gawk and gsed are GNU awk and sed
21:22:08 <oerjan> :t (((<$)<$>).(guard.))
21:22:09 <lambdabot> forall (f :: * -> *) b (f1 :: * -> *) (m :: * -> *). (Functor f, Functor f1, MonadPlus m) => f1 Bool -> f1 (f b -> f (m ()))
21:22:27 <Deewiant> awk and sed are solaris's own
21:22:34 <fizzie> Deewiant: And gquack is the GNU duck.
21:22:38 * oerjan continues giving up.
21:23:32 <nortti> Deewiant: I meant on systems like Linux and OS X so there wouldn't be so much portability issues
21:24:00 <Deewiant> I think it depends on your specific system
21:26:04 <nortti> Do GNU versions of standard unix utilities like awk, sed and make sometimes emulate standard behavior?
21:26:51 <Deewiant> awk seems to have --compat/--traditional
21:27:00 <Deewiant> And sed has --posix
21:27:31 <Deewiant> Can't see anything similar for make
21:27:50 <fizzie> GNU bash has that posix mode auto-enabled when you call it "sh".
21:27:54 <nortti> why isn't is then the standard behavior if they are called awk and sed?
21:28:26 <nortti> fizzie: I think awk, sed, make and all those programs should do the same
21:28:39 <fizzie> And do you also think GCC should disable extensions by default? 
21:29:48 <elliott> GNU would be fun if it tried to be perfectly compatible by default.
21:29:53 <nortti> fizzie: I think that it should disable them if it gets called cc, but use them if called gcc
21:29:57 <elliott> By "fun", I mean "agonising", because 80s Unix was shitty as all hell.
21:30:12 <elliott> nortti: surely you mean c89/c90
21:30:14 <elliott> *c99
21:30:17 <elliott> or is it c90 and c99
21:30:22 <elliott> whatever; the POSIX defined things
21:30:32 <elliott> I don't think POSIX guarantees cc has no extensions
21:30:35 <fizzie> I suppose the same "should" apply for GNU tar.
21:30:51 <nortti> elliott: c90 is the same as c89
21:31:11 <fizzie> I see only "c99" in POSIX.
21:31:17 <fizzie> It "shall accept source code conforming to the ISO C standard".
21:31:22 <fizzie> Well, POSIX 2008, anyway.
21:31:23 <nortti> and yes, I meant c99
21:31:26 <elliott> nortti: They are not the same byte strings.
21:31:31 <elliott> POSIX only defines one, I believe.
21:31:41 <elliott> fizzie: Right, but didn't POSIX exist before 1999?
21:31:58 <fizzie> Sure, sure.
21:32:30 <nortti> elliott: c89 and c90 are the same standard, but one is c89 is ANSI standard and c90 is ISO standard
21:32:40 <nortti> -one is
21:32:51 <elliott> nortti: Yes, I'm aware.
21:32:57 <elliott> I am talking about the commands standardised by POSIX.
21:33:05 <nortti> oh
21:34:36 <fizzie> FreeBSD man pages have "c89 - POSIX.2 C language compiler", so I suppose it was that.
21:34:50 <fizzie> Can't be bothered to try locating a more authoritative source.
21:35:28 <tswett> "So, elliott," tswett says, "it seems like you would object to my use of commas here."
21:36:05 <fizzie> "So,,, elliott,,",,, says, fizzie,,, ",,, do you think there are ,,enough,, commas here,",,
21:36:41 <elliott> nO,,,
21:38:08 <nortti> T,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,h,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,e,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,r,,,,,,,,,,,,,e,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,s,,,,,,,,,,,,,h,,,,,,,,,,,,,o,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,u,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,l,,,,,,,,,,,, ,,,,,,,,,,,,,b,,,,,,,,,,e,,,,,,,,, ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,m,,,,,,,,,,,,,o,,,,,,,,r,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,e,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,,,,,,,,,,c,,,,,,,,,,,,,,o,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,m,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,m,,,,,,,,,,,,,a,,,,,,,,,,,,,,s
21:38:09 <nortti> ,
21:38:20 <elliott> ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
21:38:37 <fizzie> The funniest. g++ has a "-std=c++1y" for "[t]he next revision of the ISO C++ standard, tentatively planned for 2017".
21:38:50 <tswett> > length ",,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,"
21:38:50 <lambdabot>   33
21:38:52 <fizzie> I suppose "c++1x" would've been too confusing, since "c++0x" came out in 1x.
21:39:10 <fizzie> But it's a clever solution to just bump the letter up.
21:39:16 <tswett> > length ",,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,"
21:39:17 <lambdabot>   28
21:39:21 <tswett> elliott: you're short by five.
21:39:22 <oerjan> > chr ','
21:39:23 <lambdabot>   Couldn't match expected type `GHC.Types.Int'
21:39:23 <lambdabot>         against inferred type ...
21:39:27 <oerjan> > ord ','
21:39:28 <fizzie> When "c++1y" comes out in 2021, they'll probably call the next one "c++2z".
21:39:28 <lambdabot>   44
21:39:38 <fizzie> ^ord ,
21:39:38 <fungot> 44 
21:39:43 <nortti> why the couldn't just call it c++11?
21:40:26 <fizzie> Because that's the one that came out in 2011? 
21:40:35 <elliott> fizzie: And after that they'll be screwed.
21:40:49 <elliott> > "c++3" ++ [chr (ord 'z' + 1)]
21:40:51 <lambdabot>   "c++3{"
21:41:00 <fizzie> It looks nice.
21:41:19 <fizzie> Then "c++4|" which will have some quoting-related problems here and there.
21:41:43 <fizzie> After c++6~, though...
21:42:00 <oerjan> c++3{ the most disturbing smiley
21:42:21 <Deewiant> After c++6~ comes c++
21:42:51 <elliott> I think you a characters.
21:42:54 <fizzie> Oh, that's clever.
21:42:59 <Deewiant> elliott: Nope.
21:43:05 <elliott> Oh, backspace?
21:43:06 <elliott> Heh.
21:43:54 <Deewiant> Or maybe we'll be Unicode enough by then that c++7␡ is acceptable.
21:45:35 <fizzie> Deewiant: In Unicode 72 they've probably removed the "Control Pictures" block because the word "control" is politically incorrect.
21:45:38 <nortti> I meant c++17
21:46:04 <elliott> nortti: Keyword "tentatively".
21:46:07 <pikhq> fizzie: This is the standard unwilling to change typos in codepoint names.
21:46:13 <elliott> C++0x was planned for 200x, after all.
21:46:27 <fizzie> "Tentatively" in the sense of "not".
21:46:58 <fizzie> The fact that it has an 'x' (or 'y') in it is also a good reminder it's not final.
21:48:40 <fizzie> They don't seem to have a name yet for whatever will be after c11.
21:49:36 <elliott> c99, c11... Must be c22 next.
21:50:25 <Deewiant> They skipped c00 for that to make sense, so I'd guess c23.
21:52:58 <elliott> Deewiant: Eh?
21:53:13 <nortti> elliott: no next one is c26. 90->99 is 9 (3*3) years and 99->11 is 12 (4*3) years, so next will be 11->26 (5*3)
21:53:29 <Deewiant> elliott: c99 -> c11 is 12 years, c11 -> c23 is also 12 years.
21:53:46 <nortti> +which is 15
21:53:46 <Deewiant> elliott: c99, c00, c11, c22 would make sense if they wanted double digits.
21:54:13 <nortti> Deewiant: but what about c90->c99?
21:54:44 <Deewiant> Yours is the only progression thus far that works for that too.
21:54:51 <fizzie> Deewiant: http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=plot+%283%2F2%29*x%5E2%2B%2815%2F2%29*x%2B1990+for+x%3D0..4 suggests 2044.
21:55:01 <Deewiant> If c00 existed, we could discount c90 as a fluke since it was the first release. :-P
21:55:09 <fizzie> Whoops, I skipped one.
21:55:11 <Deewiant> And then the double digits thing would still be acceptable.
21:55:23 <fizzie> So 2026, then 2044.
21:55:45 <elliott> <Deewiant> elliott: c99, c00, c11, c22 would make sense if they wanted double digits.
21:55:58 <elliott> Deewiant: Well, obviously they skip it if there's not enough time to prepare a new spec.
21:56:02 <elliott> It could be c33, aftera ll.
21:56:15 <Deewiant> elliott: Then they should've waited for it instead of doing c99.
21:56:29 <elliott> Deewiant: Who are *you* to tell the committee what to do?
21:56:37 <elliott> You're BANNED FROM C.
21:56:46 <Deewiant> Just another lazy programmer.
21:57:20 <fizzie> @oeis 90,99,11
21:57:20 <lambdabot>  Sequence not found.
21:57:22 <fizzie> Aw.
21:57:34 <Deewiant> @oeis 1990,1999,2011
21:57:34 <lambdabot>  Sequence not found.
21:57:41 <fizzie> @oeis 90 99 11
21:57:41 <lambdabot>  Sequence not found.
21:57:44 <Deewiant> @oeis 90,99,110
21:57:45 <lambdabot>  Largest integer m such that every permutation (p_1, ..., p_n) of (1, ..., n)...
21:57:45 <lambdabot>  [1,2,3,6,8,12,15,20,24,30,35,42,48,56,63,72,80,90,99,110,120,132,143,156,168...
21:57:49 <Deewiant> Woops
21:57:50 <Deewiant> @oeis 90,99,111
21:57:51 <lambdabot>  Number of nonnegative solutions to x^2 + y^2 + z^2 <= n.
21:57:52 <lambdabot>  [1,4,7,8,11,17,20,20,23,29,35,38,39,45,51,51,54,63,69,72,78,84,87,87,90,99,1...
21:58:32 <fizzie> Deewiant: According to that (A000606), they're going to have to release two C15's.
21:58:48 <Deewiant> Yeah, I think A048955 and A128012 are better.
21:59:00 <elliott> @oeis 80,99,11
21:59:01 <lambdabot>  Sequence not found.
21:59:03 <elliott> @oeis 89,99,11
21:59:04 <lambdabot>  Concatenation of a and b, where a is the reduced sum of the digits of n and ...
21:59:04 <lambdabot>  [0,11,23,36,41,56,63,71,89,99,11,23,36,41]
21:59:11 <elliott> Okay, Deewiant was right.
21:59:13 <elliott> C23 it is.
21:59:18 <Deewiant> Heh.
21:59:31 <elliott> @oeis 89,99,111
21:59:31 <lambdabot>  Numbers with digits in nondecreasing order.
21:59:31 <lambdabot>  [0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,22,23,24,25,26,27,28,29,33,3...
21:59:39 <elliott> Oh, come on.
22:00:04 <Deewiant>  @oeis really should do some appropriate dropWhileing.
22:00:26 <Deewiant> A076273 suggests c19.
22:03:15 <elliott> @oeis 1989,1999,2011
22:03:16 <lambdabot>  Sequence not found.
22:03:18 <elliott> @oeis 1990,1999,2011
22:03:19 <lambdabot>  Sequence not found.
22:04:01 <Deewiant> @oeis 990,999,1011
22:04:02 <lambdabot>  Sequence not found.
22:04:03 <fizzie> Deewiant: Interestingly, if you fit a second-degree polynomial to (1,1990), (2,1999) and (3,2011), not only does it give you the next standard ((4,2026) -> C26) but you can also see that that C standard is how Big Brother is keeping us all under control. (See (0,1984).)
22:04:04 <Deewiant> @oeis 989,999,1011
22:04:05 <lambdabot>  Sequence not found.
22:04:15 <nortti> using my system it would be 1990->1999->2011->2026->2044->2065->2089
22:04:41 <Deewiant> fizzie: That's nortti's system again, no? Differences 6, 9, 12, 15.
22:04:54 <fizzie> Yes, it is the same thing.
22:05:10 <nortti> Deewiant: yes
22:07:15 <elliott> Targets (37): bash-4.2.024-2  chromium-17.0.963.83-1  device-mapper-2.02.95-1  fontsproto-2.1.2-1  intel-dri-8.0.2-1  iproute2-3.2.0-3
22:07:15 <elliott>               kbproto-1.0.6-1  lib32-libdrm-2.4.32-1  lib32-libgl-8.0.2-1  lib32-libglapi-8.0.2-1  lib32-mesa-8.0.2-1  lib32-openssl-1.0.1-1
22:07:15 <elliott>               libdrm-2.4.32-1  libftdi-0.20-1  libgl-8.0.2-1  libglapi-8.0.2-1  libxaw-1.0.10-1  linux-3.2.12-1  lvm2-2.02.95-1  mercurial-2.1.1-2
22:07:15 <elliott>               mesa-8.0.2-1  mpg123-1.13.6-1  neon-0.29.6-4  openssh-5.9p1-8  openssl-1.0.1-1  psmisc-22.16-1  quodlibet-2.4-1  recordproto-1.14.2-1
22:07:18 <elliott>               scrnsaverproto-1.2.2-1  vim-7.3.475-1  vim-runtime-7.3.475-1  xcb-proto-1.7.1-1  xextproto-7.2.1-1  xorg-setxkbmap-1.3.0-1
22:07:21 <elliott>               xorg-xauth-1.0.7-1  xorg-xkbcomp-1.2.4-1  xorg-xmodmap-1.0.6-1
22:07:23 <elliott> So many MUPGRADES.
22:07:27 <elliott> Total Download Size:    93.14 MiB
22:07:27 <elliott> Total Installed Size:   276.41 MiB
22:07:29 <elliott> Net Upgrade Size:       -1.15 MiB
22:07:31 <elliott> Well, that's good.
22:07:54 <Deewiant> So long since you last MUPGRADED.
22:09:15 <fizzie> octave:1> f = @(x) (81/4)*exp(log(4/3)*x)+1963
22:09:15 <fizzie> f =
22:09:15 <fizzie> @(x) (81 / 4) * exp (log (4 / 3) * x) + 1963
22:09:15 <fizzie> octave:2> f([0 1 2 3 4])
22:09:15 <fizzie> ans =
22:09:15 <lambdabot> Unknown command, try @list
22:09:17 <fizzie> 1983.2   1990.0   1999.0   2011.0   2027.0
22:09:55 <fizzie> After C27, we'll have C48.3 and C76.8.
22:14:23 <oerjan> elliott: YOUR WISH IS MY COMMAND.  well, at least once.
22:15:04 <fizzie> Alternatively,
22:15:05 <fizzie> octave:10> f = @(x) -(63*sqrt(15))/8*tan(-2*atan(4-sqrt(15))*x)+15857/8; f([1 2 3 4 5 6 7])
22:15:08 <fizzie> ans =
22:15:11 <fizzie> 1990.0   1999.0   2011.0   2030.8   2078.2   2539.0   1830.1
22:15:20 <elliott> oerjan: Excellent! Now elect me benevolent dictator for life of the world.
22:15:30 <fizzie> There will be some sort of a singularity event after the sixth C standard in 2539.
22:16:05 <fizzie> Or possibly just a new calendar.
22:16:07 <elliott> fizzie: That nearly-five-centuries delay is a doozy.
22:16:29 <elliott> "C8x, released in 2539"
22:17:08 <oerjan> <Deewiant>  @oeis really should do some appropriate dropWhileing. <-- i'm pretty sure it does?  also, even more if you use space instead of commas.
22:17:19 <elliott> oerjan: btw [[LOLCODE]] has the same kind of broken <code>-around-a-pre :P
22:17:54 <elliott> relatedly to oerjan not hating me forever, i'm totally going to look into that W-next-to-interwiki-links tomorrow.
22:18:09 <fizzie> oerjan: I assumed the point was that it'd show the match in the example, instead of just starting from the beginning.
22:18:47 <oerjan> <elliott> oerjan: btw [[LOLCODE]] has the same kind of broken <code>-around-a-pre :P <-- i'm not through the recent changes yet
22:19:13 <fizzie> oerjan: Also based on a very quick test using spaces didn't seem to matter when done via lambdabot. (Via the website, sure.)
22:19:17 <fizzie> @oeis 11 45 88 22
22:19:17 <lambdabot>  Sequence not found.
22:19:25 <fizzie> That has 1218 matches on the website.
22:19:50 <oerjan> <elliott> oerjan: Excellent! Now elect me benevolent dictator for life of the world. <-- i can still be the evil one, right?
22:19:50 <nortti> @oeis 1990 1999 2011 2026 2044
22:19:51 <lambdabot>  Sequence not found.
22:21:02 <oerjan> fizzie: huh.
22:21:43 -!- tzxn3 has quit (Quit: Leaving).
22:22:16 -!- derdon has joined.
22:25:12 <Deewiant> oerjan: What fizzie said re. the point.
22:27:36 <elliott> There, like, is no point.
22:28:58 * elliott eagerly awaits oerjan's copy-editing of [[Snack]]
22:32:44 <oerjan> waiting with bated breath
22:45:20 <elliott> wow, /// has been the featured language for 5 days already.
22:45:46 <elliott> oerjan: you know, [[Bitwise Cyclic Tag]] has a bunch of preformatted execution traces...
22:45:54 <elliott> ...just sayin'
22:46:08 <oerjan> ooh
22:46:42 * elliott tableises the instruction reference anyway.
22:46:46 <elliott> i feel it is my duty.
22:47:19 <oerjan> EDIT CONFLICT
22:47:24 * oerjan waits a bit
22:48:15 <elliott> actually i can't think of an elegant way to express 1's execution without those direct line-breaks, so I will hold off on that for now.
22:48:48 * elliott does not envy oerjan when he gets to http://esolangs.org/wiki/Bitwise_Cyclic_Tag#Example_2
22:49:33 <oerjan> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
22:49:57 <elliott> actually, I'll wikify that one.
22:50:03 <elliott> it looks fun!
22:52:51 <elliott> oerjan: (btw i'm actually doing it, just to avoid ecs)
22:56:45 <zzo38> Make the list of Haskell Ephemeris ID numbers, including planets, dwarf planets, sun, moon, satellites, asteroids, fixed stars, artificial objects, fictitious objects, etc
22:57:35 <elliott> no
22:58:35 <zzo38> elliott: I didn't mean you, I meant an astronomer.
23:00:31 <elliott> oh.
23:01:48 -!- Sofox has joined.
23:03:22 <elliott> `welcome Sofox
23:03:25 <HackEgo> Sofox: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
23:03:52 <elliott> note to self: half-finished work on bct table is in ~/tmp/bct. (tables r hard)
23:04:10 <Sofox> Hello elliott, and HackEgo.
23:04:59 <zzo38> For the purpose of fictitious objects, an astrologer should work on it too. But some fictitious object are not used much by astronomy or astrology, such as Julian Ecclesiastical Moon, etc
23:05:03 <Sofox> Certainly are friendly here.
23:05:28 <fizzie> elliott: Re "tables r hard", I hear it'd be trivial if you used nonsense query tables instead.
23:05:30 <zzo38> Sofox: Read the wiki and/or logs
23:05:41 -!- Patashu has joined.
23:07:06 <Sofox> I love esoteric programming languages. 
23:07:21 <Sofox> I haven't programmed using one of them yet, but I'd like to try something out in LOLCODE or Brainfuck.
23:07:42 <elliott> We're all friendly here. Apart from all the horrible people. Like me.
23:07:42 * oerjan swats fizzie -----###
23:07:49 <elliott> fungot: Say hi to Sofox!
23:07:50 <fungot> elliott: i misread that, then, between symbols and functions ( defun and defparameter) while scheme makes no distinction ( define) :)
23:07:53 <oerjan> elliott: i assume you wanted me to
23:08:04 <elliott> oerjan: To...
23:08:22 <oerjan> to what i did in the previous line
23:08:28 <elliott> Oh.
23:08:34 <elliott> Well, you know, swat anyone and everyone.
23:08:39 <fizzie> oerjan: When in doubt, swat.
23:08:45 <oerjan> O KAY
23:10:16 -!- nortti has quit (Quit: nuq).
23:10:37 * oerjan swats Sofox as well.  I'm sure Phantom_Hoover would want me to, after his last comment. -----###
23:10:52 <Sofox> Heh.
23:10:59 <oerjan> or wait, that's brainfuck proper, not a derivative.
23:11:34 <fizzie> oerjan: The "L" word might draw some hoover-ire even when it's not about a derivative.
23:11:48 <oerjan> fizzie: yes.
23:12:10 <oerjan> i have also read more of today's logs than is healthy.
23:20:59 <Phantom_Hoover> Sofox, hello, I am friendly until you make a Brainfuck derivative.
23:21:13 <Sofox> Phantom: And then what?
23:21:51 <fizzie> Then come the bricks.
23:22:07 <Phantom_Hoover> Amd out go the brains.
23:22:09 <Phantom_Hoover> *and
23:27:03 <Sgeo_> monqy, Phantom_Hoover elliott MUFFIN
23:27:05 <elliott> Hoovire.
23:27:11 <elliott> Not a Phantom_Hoover elliott muffin.
23:27:15 -!- zbrown has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
23:27:46 -!- zbrown has joined.
23:43:02 <elliott> coppro: zzo38: wtf
23:43:10 <elliott> coppro: zzo38: that magic set editor thing was written by a haskeller!
23:43:30 <elliott> (Twan van Laarhoven, the author of e.g. lambdabot's reflection stuff)
23:46:47 <zzo38> elliott: I know the person who wrote MSE also wrote programs in Haskell (although MSE itself is written in C++)
23:47:39 <zzo38> (However he had no intention to include pure versions of MSE's impure functions)
23:49:44 <zzo38> But MSE is full of various problems anyways so I make TeXnicard, which is written in C and does not use floating points at all except for PNG compression (which is lossless anyways, so slightly different computers will still result in the same output, although the actual bytes of the file might differ)
23:51:25 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
23:51:26 <pikhq> But... MSE is so bad. So horribly bad.
23:52:14 <zzo38> pikhq: I know... you can write bad codes in any programming language...
23:52:52 <zzo38> pikhq: Do you think TeXnicard is any better than MSE?
23:53:57 <pikhq> zzo38: I've not looked at it immensely, but I'd certainly imagine it is.
23:54:06 <pikhq> At minimum, it's using a vastly better typesetting system.
23:54:18 <coppro> elliott: yes
23:56:15 <elliott> coppro: WHY DIDN'T YOU TELL ME
23:56:29 * elliott cries
23:58:28 <zzo38> pikhq: Well, yes, it is a typesetting system based on TeX, so certainly that part would be better. But, I mean, other stuff too, what you would figure out from this. But can someone else improve the documentation for the parts of the program that are already working (which is most of it)?