00:00:19 What nonsense! 00:01:08 hi 00:05:13 http://meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/126819/esoteric-programming-languages-acceptable-or-discouraged finally, someone gives us the recognition we deserve 00:06:20 Why are half the well known esolangs bullshit ones 00:06:59 Most people have no taste. 00:07:38 "Esoteric languages are part of Stack Overflow as every other language, two of them (Python and Ruby1) are even featured in SO's 404 polyglot:" 00:07:46 At least two of those are just cyphers of generic languages 00:07:52 "1 If you are a Pythonista or a Rubyist and feel like chopping my head off, just replace that with C and Perl. 00:07:52 " 00:07:54 That is basically putting stickers on your car 00:08:03 zzo38: hey you just have to invent a time machine, nothing big! 00:09:24 maybe i should call my next language Brain@%#! 00:09:26 or Brainf**k 00:10:19 Is it like brainfuck except instead of +-<>[]., you only use swears 00:10:47 no, it's in fact nothing like brainf**k, maybe i should make it a CA or something 00:11:03 Or a cypher of lolcode. 00:11:04 :P 00:11:12 Shit piss cunt motherfucker tits cocks turd and twat 00:11:19 fart, too 00:11:45 a cipher of lolcode called "C" 00:12:03 We shall call it srscode 00:12:10 And it will just be C 00:12:32 Honestly, C makes for a decent esolang. 00:13:00 Well it's basically the only language that I have been taught 00:13:10 So for me it's pretty much what a programming language is 00:15:51 What happened to the snake? 00:17:01 He has gone to read his SICP 00:17:32 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:19:26 goodnight 00:19:38 -!- augur has joined. 00:23:10 b*a*n*u*k and *r*i*f*c* 00:23:50 -!- elliott has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 00:27:57 -!- derdon has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 00:29:13 Make a brainfuck variant named banukrifc 00:29:42 ^scramble brainfuck 00:29:43 banukcfir 00:29:54 oh right 00:30:14 ^unscramble brainfuck 00:30:14 bkrcauifn 00:33:44 -!- derdon has joined. 00:36:17 banuk? 00:36:28 Sounds like baduk which is an alternative name of Go I think 00:36:35 monqy, UPDATE 00:54:56 -!- SDr has joined. 01:01:45 -!- derdon has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:14:30 -!- hagb4rd has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 01:37:39 -!- MDude has joined. 01:45:09 -!- sully has left. 01:57:17 -!- NihilistDandy has joined. 02:01:13 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:41:52 -!- MoALTz has joined. 02:44:24 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 03:27:36 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 03:29:49 -!- MoALTz has joined. 03:33:48 -!- Mathnerd314 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 03:34:10 -!- oklopol has joined. 03:34:12 what's up 03:34:22 -!- Mannerisk has quit (Quit: Mannerisk). 03:34:35 i just read cyanide and happiness 03:34:35 oklopol: have you seen our new wiki main page? 03:34:41 no 03:34:56 please link it so i don't have to do _anything_ 03:35:04 `welcome oklopol 03:35:08 oklopol: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page 03:35:40 featured language! you did it :D 03:35:49 ME FAMOUS 03:36:04 AND TSWETT TOO 03:36:27 well i meant that you added the whole featured language thing, you as in u pplz. 03:36:34 i recall this being discussed 03:36:44 yes. although mostly elliott. 03:38:37 is elly the new elliott 03:38:52 doesn't look like it but who knows 03:39:10 no, elly is the new has-suspiciously-similar-initials-to elliott 03:39:18 i see. 03:39:43 Wooooo. 03:39:48 so i have no moneys, will someone lend me some 03:40:02 Ihope127 was a genius. It's a shame he's no longer with us. 03:40:08 i mean give me 03:40:20 a great tragedy. 03:40:39 The world mourns this loss. 03:41:06 did he have ass cancer 03:41:13 How should I know? 03:41:41 well could he sit anywhere? 03:41:51 * tswett up arrow enter 03:42:00 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 03:42:06 how should i know 03:42:11 you brought him up 03:42:18 I... I did? 03:42:23 I don't remember this at all. 03:42:28 well really i guess it was oerjan 03:42:37 yes. you were a remarkably bad parent, though. 03:42:58 always absent 03:43:15 I guess you're probably joking. 03:43:34 no one knows 03:43:45 yes. any similarity to _real_ children you are abandonic is mere coincidence. 03:43:50 *ing 03:44:31 i just got this thousand or so euros for my conference trip, and i'm wondering if the paperwork is worth doing or should i just pay it myself 03:44:40 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 03:45:03 you have to like give them a report and receipts from the trip 03:45:11 like what the fuck, just gimme the moneys 03:45:35 ah the conference paperwork panic, i remember it well. 03:45:46 i ended up not applying. 03:45:51 :D 03:46:07 (for the money.) 03:46:15 right 03:46:56 i at least hope i get funding for the trip to taiwan 03:47:36 assuming we get accepted. it's a fair assumption because our paper is _awesome_. 03:47:46 naturally. 03:47:49 food -> 03:48:04 so, do you know if springer and friends have bots that check if the articles are downloadable free on authors' websites 03:48:18 because long story short, ours is and i'm having a hard time getting it down. 03:49:24 i updated my publications list on this one university website and they had this button for upping the pdf. and i'm like hurr durr what's next okay pdf lemme just upload that for ya. 03:49:29 Why have there been 4 downloads of the CPL interpreter this week? 03:49:57 and i sent an email to them and they're like okay we'll do something about this ^^ 03:50:34 apparently elsevier charges 3000 dollars if you wanna upload the article on your website for free 03:50:58 but 3000 is a lot to pay for being a fucking retard :D 03:52:09 really it's more that the government should pay me stupid support. 03:57:03 you know there is a "boycott elsevier" movement, right? 04:03:42 well naturally 04:04:23 but i'm sure 3000 dollars sounds better than whatever springer has to offer in this context 04:04:51 CPL doesn't do Smalltalk comments properly 04:05:40 are its comments way too substantial to qualify for smalltalk 04:05:44 as 04:06:04 " opens a Smalltalk comment " closes it 04:06:33 "FUCK 04:06:45 Should issue a warning about unterminated comment, imo 04:06:50 And ""FUCK should be a syntax error 04:07:17 you know who else should be a syntax error 04:07:44 -!- MoALTz has joined. 04:08:03 "The proof is trivial! Just view the problem as a convex algebra whose elements are alternating Turing machines" could someone elaborate on this 04:08:50 i have no idea how to even make them an affine space 04:08:58 especially if the field is R 04:09:18 i am not whoever first put that in the topic, so no. 04:09:25 oh 04:09:31 so i guess it just makes no sense 04:10:11 i don't know. it _could_ make sense to take convex combinations of them somehow? 04:10:18 elly: this smells like your handiwork 04:10:34 * oerjan swats oklopol -----### 04:10:43 like 1/pi of one automaton and 1-1/pi of the other? 04:10:48 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 04:10:48 yeah 04:11:16 perhaps the alternation part is crucial here 04:11:40 `pastelogs The proof is trivial! Just view the 04:11:58 -!- MDude has changed nick to MSleep. 04:12:13 No output. 04:12:19 `pastelogs The proof is trivial! Just view the 04:12:32 bloody timeouts 04:12:34 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.8939 04:13:06 quintopia: ok, you are irresponsible here 04:13:18 quintopia: could you elaborate? 04:14:03 http://theproofistrivial.com/ 04:14:13 oh. 04:14:17 ooh 04:14:48 i guess it _was_ trivial, then. 04:15:43 The proof is trivial! Just biject it to a 04:15:45 combinatorial 04:15:47 topological space 04:15:49 whose elements are 04:15:51 convex 04:15:53 metric spaces 04:16:07 so close to making sense 04:16:17 (to me :D) 04:17:12 your quest shall be to get one of those as the proof of a proposition in your next paper. 04:18:28 :DD 04:18:30 -!- MSleep has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 04:18:48 a lemma will also do. 04:19:11 i can try at least doing something with that form 04:19:38 doesn't sound too hard, but i'm only writing one solo paper atm 04:19:42 no, it has to be something actually from that website. 04:19:47 :( 04:19:48 i guess 04:21:07 "The proof is trivial! Just view the problem as an associative semigroup whose elements are clopen groups" so a family of clopen topological groups, and i guess the natural associative operation is cartesian product 04:21:33 we're trying to start an article on universal algebra, perhaps i could use that there 04:22:10 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 04:23:01 is there a thing that generates whole nonsensical proofs? 04:23:17 I've heard of something that generates nonsensical papers somewhere 04:23:24 Got submitted to some ... place 04:23:43 http://pdos.csail.mit.edu/scigen/ 04:24:55 http://pdos.csail.mit.edu/scigen/rooter.pdf 04:24:56 xD 04:25:12 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 04:27:01 -!- azaq23 has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 04:33:44 `frink 3 cm * 4500000000 -> lightseconds 04:33:57 67500000/149896229 (approx. 0.4503115285175053) 04:38:16 -!- rvchangue has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 04:41:26 -!- rvchangue has joined. 04:43:03 that's pretty unbelievable stuff 04:43:33 what is 04:43:38 that scigen stuff 04:44:00 :-) 04:44:31 what, don't you believe in SCIENCE? 04:44:45 but i'd like to see that in math 04:45:17 because i don't know anything about that stuff 04:45:21 i mean that cs stuff 04:45:31 like what the fuck is html 04:45:49 hot tasty mama lubricants 04:46:04 it's a breed of chicken 04:46:09 everything on the internet is chicken 04:47:41 -!- zzo38 has joined. 04:47:56 oerjan: i think i believe in science a bit too much because i can't really believe anyone who's ever been near science would publish something that's untrue. 04:48:31 I’d like to see a Fair and Balanced™ math lecture that tells the other side of the story instead of the one with the liberal bias. 04:48:38 oklopol: I don't think so; I think it is still possible for someone to publish something wrong anyways 04:48:44 i believe in the zzoence. the zzoentific method is 12% more efficacious than the scientific method 04:49:11 ion: what? 04:49:20 (Whether by a mistake, by a joke, or for a different reason) 04:49:42 ion: yeah those positive numbers are far too overused 04:49:49 needs more negativity! 04:49:56 liberal bias? 04:50:04 is this one of those randomly generated sentences? 04:50:13 * oerjan swats oklopol -----### 04:50:19 oklopol: it's american 04:50:20 oerjan: preferential treatment towards positive numbers is positivitist 04:50:32 *signist 04:50:45 quintopia: What is that? I still don't know. 04:51:03 zzo38: what is what? 04:51:26 As far as I know the scientific method is 95% efficacious, so if it is 12% more efficacious then it would be more than 100%? 04:51:34 i'm just saying...negative numbers have been kept down by the man for too long! 04:51:44 Or maybe I am getting confused by something 04:52:02 zzo38: zzoence changed the rules! no things can be SUPER EFFECTIVE 04:52:05 *now 04:52:33 i hear negative numbers were made by man 04:52:59 oklopol: so are babies. are you ANTIBABIES? 04:53:36 well yes, babies suck tits. 04:53:49 oh i see 04:53:52 you're jealous 04:53:57 Well, any numbers have use for different purpose. There are no negative numbers, and also no fractions, in the system of natural numbers. 04:54:07 ^ 04:54:18 zzo38: have you published any articles 04:54:19 So, in other thing certainly you can make up other one too, if it is good for what you are making! 04:54:37 oklopol: Not any formal articles; I don't know how. 04:54:52 zzo38: see there you go again with your naturalnormativity. What gives you the right to decide that some numbers are more natural than others? all numbers have equal numberness under God! 04:55:25 zzo38: dunno how it works if you're not associated with a university. hopefully the same way. 04:55:42 or did you mean you don't know how to write formal articles 04:55:48 quintopia: Even if they are, you need some way to refer to them, and that is why they are called "natural numbers". (It doesn't make them more natural in the normal sense of the word) 04:56:11 i don't need two meanings of "natural" 04:56:14 oklopol: I mean I don't know how to write formal articles. But I am also not associated witih a university. 04:56:43 oklopol: But nearly all words in English language have many meanings, so you will not get away from that 04:56:44 (there was this discussion about theory versus mathematical theory on amazon which i'm referring to but i guess you had to be there) 04:57:03 zzo38: what do you do then? 04:57:33 zzo38: the language you use to refer to things matters. like when you talk about a random person's wife. what if the random person is female or gay? saying "natural" here just reinforces that naturalnormative bias. 04:58:00 oklopol: Do to what specifically? 04:58:06 quintopia: hey wait, weren't we trying to _avoid_ liberal bias here... 04:58:07 zzo38: i mean with your life 04:58:43 oerjan: i am trying to avoid fundamentalist bias 04:58:54 we usually name things with really silly names, they make research fun while it's not going anywhere, and when we actually come up with something cool, you don't notice them anymore. 04:59:19 for instance we have this conjecture that all finitarily primular sets are varietic. 04:59:27 quintopia: Well, yes, sometimes a random person's "wife" does not apply to anything; in case the random person is female, homosexual, or unmarried. Just like, your television remote control might not have a letter "X" button it doesn't mean that nothing has. 05:00:04 oklopol: what about the orchideal sets? 05:00:12 or something i just say we define ablodob as ... and then we just go with it 05:00:18 zzo38: but when you refer to the x button on your input device, you are reinforcing the idea that ALL INPUT DEVICES SHOULD HAVE LETTER X's. and that INPUT DEVICES WITH NO X ARE ABNORMAL 05:00:36 same with natural numbers. you're implying that the average real number is unnatural. 05:01:13 oerjan: i haven't learned those yet 05:01:17 it's only my third year in math 05:01:22 okay 05:01:37 quintopia: i'm afraid that may be a theorem 05:02:18 quintopia: In mathematics, even real numbers are not all the number systems in mathematics... and anyways I mean the mathematical meaning of "naural number" not the real meaning of "natural" 05:02:37 oerjan: how can you say that nonnaturals are unnatural? are you part of the conservative conspiracy? 05:02:47 yeah damn you oerjan 05:03:15 he's probably a racist too 05:03:27 so let me define these numbers that look like reals but they are racist. 05:03:33 they hate black people 05:04:05 oklopol: the differential operator is racist 05:04:09 Denormal floats are an abomination. 05:04:10 i call them really racist numbers. 05:04:20 quintopia: :SDA 05:04:21 d(black people) just marginalizes them 05:04:39 i don't believe in races. i think all cars should stay below the speed limit. 05:05:00 oerjan: it's a good thing you aren't designing parallel computer programs 05:05:09 is there a racism theory in mathematics 05:06:06 Here is a theorem I heard somewhere: Bitches be triflin'. The proof is trivial. 05:06:28 Do you know Feynman's Trivial Theorem? 05:06:51 i would write an article that mathematically proves that the white race is superior, but i think we're 100 years away from that being obviously a joke. 05:07:29 or perhaps the asians, since they have all that skill level asian memery. 05:09:31 i suppose if i wrote one about women, it would obviously be a joke 05:09:43 if i wrote one about god, it would become the most famous mathematical paper ever. 05:09:43 -!- asiekierka_ has joined. 05:10:17 well, i guess that's been done, didn't that some guy that did boolean algebra in some visual way have a proof for every theorem and god? 05:10:34 maybe i'm adding my hopes and dreams into the mix. 05:10:41 zzo38: no. 05:11:34 have you heard this math joke, i just heard it like last week 05:11:52 (writing it) 05:13:05 why is the third root of 2 irrational? because otherwise 2^(1/3) = m/n, so 2 = m^3/n^3, so n^3 + n^3 = m^3, which is a contradiction by wiles' theorem. 05:13:33 O KAY 05:13:50 i found that really funny 05:14:22 because it's true 05:15:26 hmm, actually that theorem doesn't look too hard 05:15:37 maybe i should try to prove it 05:16:03 Feynman's Trivial Theorem is: It's trivial! It's trivial! 05:16:31 well feynman is a silly dude 05:16:58 math is a powerful drug, and you should be careful with it 05:17:52 okay gotta go to work bye byes 05:30:05 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Good night). 05:40:46 -!- NihilistDandy has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 06:13:28 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 06:19:00 -!- MoALTz has joined. 06:29:16 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 06:31:40 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 06:36:42 -!- kmc has joined. 06:48:46 fungot norway 06:48:46 shachaf: his birthday is in the same 06:48:53 fungot cadmium 06:48:53 shachaf: ( ( ( a()**)a*:a*)(a()**)a*:a*)((x1)(x2)(x3)) ...out of time! don't let that binds the variables 07:18:35 Wiles' theorem? Don't you mean Fermat's theorem? Wiles just has proven Fermat's theorem (Fermat may have proven it too, but if so, he did not write it down). 07:19:04 You mean Fermat's conjecture. 07:19:43 conjecture because it was unproven? but it was (according to Fermat, anyway) 07:20:12 er, make that "wasn't proven" and the second sentence makes more sense 07:20:36 Well, according to me, the Goldback conjecture is proven. 07:20:40 s/k/h/ 07:20:42 * shachaf sighs. 07:21:01 Anyway, this IRC input line is too narrow to contain the proof (it's just one line wide!). 07:25:00 Fermat's Theorem is that $a^n+b^n=c^n$ with $a$, $b$, and $c$ positive integers is an infinite number of solutions if $n=2$ but no solutions if $n$ is an integer greater than 2. Hofstadter's book "Godel, Escher, Bach" also mentioned $n^a+n^b=n^c$ which has the same properties just mentioned, but is easier to prove (no proof was given, but I can think of a proof easily) 07:49:32 -!- Patashu has joined. 08:29:04 -!- hagb4rd has joined. 08:38:14 -!- Jafet has joined. 08:57:56 -!- MoALTz__ has joined. 09:00:55 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 09:13:52 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 09:16:56 -!- MoALTz__ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 09:17:30 -!- hagb4rd has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 09:19:37 -!- hagb4rd has joined. 09:48:05 -!- NihilistDandy has joined. 10:01:46 -!- derdon has joined. 10:06:09 -!- cheater has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 10:19:58 -!- cheater has joined. 10:25:18 http://users.ics.tkk.fi/htkallas/dada.png oh NO the trend is DOWN. 10:40:27 -!- NihilistDandy has quit. 10:47:51 -!- zzo38 has quit (Quit: ...out of time-outs!). 10:57:56 -!- kallisti has joined. 10:58:19 I am sad that the octocats on GitHub have no tangle buddies. :_( 10:58:25 -!- kallisti has left. 11:07:13 -!- Taneb has joined. 11:07:30 Hello! 11:19:19 -!- hagb4rd has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 11:28:25 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 11:32:54 -!- derdon has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:41:53 -!- elliott has joined. 11:45:40 04:51:26: As far as I know the scientific method is 95% efficacious, so if it is 12% more efficacious then it would be more than 100%? 11:45:45 Where does *that* number come from? 11:46:12 > 1.12*0.95 11:46:13 1.064 11:46:51 -en 11:46:59 No, the 95% one. 11:47:08 I'm not even sure why I said "-en" 11:47:20 Maybe I was making sure elliott's set to English mode? 11:51:20 elliott, bonjour! 11:51:36 aloha 11:51:54 Taneb: Zeroconf. 11:53:11 Curiously, "Avahi" sounds like a greeting too. Not that it is one. 11:55:30 alons y 12:08:03 @ping 12:08:03 pong 12:08:05 Yay 12:16:59 @zing 12:16:59 pong 12:17:53 @sing 12:17:53 pong 12:19:54 "zzo38 Wiles' theorem? Don't you mean Fermat's theorem? Wiles just has proven Fermat's theorem (Fermat may have proven it too, but if so, he did not write it down)." yeah fermat didn't prove it 12:19:58 don't be silly 12:20:20 I've got a book on Fermat's theore 12:20:21 m 12:20:25 It doesn't contain the proof 12:20:31 i read one as a kid 12:20:33 prolly the same 12:21:07 This one was published in '97 12:22:10 I have one too. It was by that Singh dude. 12:22:16 Yeah, same book 12:22:17 well i read it when i was 11 or something, and i don't think it was very new 12:22:25 How old are you, oklopol? 12:22:26 so dunno if it's the same 12:22:32 i'm 23 :( 12:22:35 oklopol: Was it mostly orangeish? 12:22:42 i have absolutely no idea 12:22:49 i don't remember colors 12:23:02 Was there a triangle on the cover? (Okay, I guess there might well be in any case.) 12:23:11 Did it, in fact, look like http://www.amazon.com/Fermats-Last-Theorem-Simon-Singh/dp/1841157910 12:23:40 no, and it was a finnish translation, so i think it was older than that. 12:23:48 Hmm 12:23:51 -!- Patashu has quit (Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 , Skype: patashu0 .). 12:23:57 I got that one as a present maybe a decade ago. 12:24:04 I got this one maybe last month? 12:24:15 And I think it was probably Finnish too. But it looked the same. 12:24:16 Elderly relative was clearing out all of his maths books 12:24:49 It seems that there's a Finnish translation from 1998. 12:25:21 Anyway, I'm sure there's more than one book. 12:25:22 In general. 12:25:37 http://www.lukuhetki.fi/product.php?id=11242 that's the Finnish cover. 12:25:41 It looks very similaar. 12:26:06 They've moved the book title to the top, though. 12:26:15 well it looks vaguely familiar 12:33:28 -!- MoALTz__ has joined. 12:36:22 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 12:43:38 oklopol: asojd 12:57:58 -!- nortti has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:58:11 -!- ais523 has joined. 12:58:14 -!- ais523 has quit (Changing host). 12:58:14 -!- ais523 has joined. 12:59:37 hi ais523 12:59:41 your IRC client is broken 13:01:51 agreed, but less broken than several others 13:02:05 what particular problem did you notice? 13:02:23 My guess would be: 13:02:24 * ais523 (~ais523@147.188.254.137) has joined #esoteric 13:02:24 * ais523 has quit (Changing host) 13:02:24 * ais523 (~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523) has joined #esoteric 13:02:35 ah, I don't really care about that 13:03:00 especially here; the 147.188 part is very easily guessable, and the other two parts are dynamic 13:03:47 I was referring to the quit and reconnect 13:04:39 Taneb: that's not a real quit and reconnect, it's simulated by the server 13:04:45 look at the quit message 13:04:51 that's not one the client can send 13:05:07 (it'd say Quit: Changing host if I tried to simulate it) 13:05:17 Hmm 13:07:32 It's not even shown to the client. 13:07:41 Just everyone else. 13:09:30 It's just a numeric "396 yournick your/cloak :is now your hidden host (set by services.)" as seen by the person doing it. 13:09:45 Hmm 13:10:26 Anyway, if you just put your nickserv password as the server password you will get identified early enough so that it doesn't need to do the fake-quit. 13:10:42 that's not true, I do put my nickserv password as the server password 13:11:11 then the client sends it again to nickserv manually just to make sure, but I get an "already logged in" response 13:12:04 In that case it should have the host set before joining any channels, I thought. But maybe there's enough of a delay for the autojoins to go through before the host-setting stuff comes back from nickserv. 13:13:35 nickserv seems to take some time to respond (and the server seems to convert a server password into the equivalent of a PM to nickserv) 13:13:47 fizzie: there's not 13:13:51 afaik 13:13:57 at least i never have any problems 13:13:59 what does personal mode +i mean? identified? 13:14:05 invisible, IIRC 13:14:06 Invisible. 13:14:07 ais523: is your server password in the right format? 13:14:08 ah, OK 13:14:09 it's "pass :accountname" 13:14:15 I think just "pass" works too, though 13:14:19 elliott: I think so, and it does work to identify me 13:14:31 (there's a :accountname so it works for ais523_ and scarf and callforjudgement and the rest) 13:15:45 "never" is a strong word, mr. elliott!~elliott@95.149.230.3 has quit [Changing host] of 2012-03-06. 13:16:18 -!- GhostHand has joined. 13:16:51 `welcome GhostHand 13:16:54 GhostHand: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page 13:17:00 fizzie: Things were different then!!! 13:17:15 hi 13:18:34 `pastlog Changing host 13:18:54 you'd need the client to wait several seconds to actually be identified, I guess, to avoid the problem altogether 13:19:01 who are you? 13:19:06 No output. 13:19:09 i'm elliott 13:19:11 ais523 is ais523 13:19:14 HackEgo is a robot 13:19:22 elliott: that's a good summary 13:19:33 you're surprisingly ais523 really 13:19:38 more ais523 than any other person I've known 13:19:40 I'm Ngevd 13:19:44 true 13:19:50 where are you from? 13:19:54 There's quite a few robots, though. 13:20:07 yes, for example fizzie 13:20:11 owned by fungot 13:20:11 elliott: and, dab, words like pop-culture should use the binary level, then!, and cond switching of character memory can be achieved with the c preprocessor is run and line labels 13:20:17 GhostHand: me? england. 13:20:27 you're not from Hexham or Helsinki, are you? 13:21:03 I Come from China 13:21:16 ok. i'm pretty sure there's no hexhams or helsinkis in china 13:21:40 Very glad to meet you 13:21:51 me too 13:22:27 I want to be your friend 13:22:42 me too 13:22:55 i study CCNA 13:22:58 Everyone wants to be elliott's friend 13:23:03 me too 13:23:47 (how does one exit man pages? I can never remember) 13:23:54 q 13:23:59 How do you like china? 13:24:00 same way you exit less 13:24:08 elliott, that was easy 13:24:09 GhostHand: china is the best 13:24:31 I don't think 13:24:39 oh :( 13:24:51 Because the environment is getting worse 13:25:18 Taneb: man pages are actually shown with less (with a thinly-disguised interface change to make you think it isn't less if you aren't concentrating, but nobody's really fooled) 13:25:57 ais523, I rarely if ever use less 13:26:21 $ cat .lessfilter 13:26:22 highlight -A "$1" 2>/dev/null 13:26:33 tip for everyone: put that in your .lessfilter (not the cat line, the other line), then chmod it +x 13:26:44 i bet that breaks search 13:26:47 also, set LESSOPTIONS to contain -R among your other options 13:26:59 elliott: hmm, let me test 13:27:25 nope! 13:27:37 looks like less ignores the color commands in / 13:27:38 What do you study 13:27:39 ? 13:27:45 ^.^ 13:27:49 esoteric programming languages, that's what the channel is about 13:28:09 pline("%s%s and %s a %s in the %s!", 13:28:59 ais523: Sounds like a reality TV series post-sanitization. "BLEEP BLEEP and BLEEP a BLEEP in the BLEEP!" 13:29:15 yes, indeed 13:29:19 (Do they BLEEP those? Maybe they don't.) 13:29:24 %s is a great way to imply something's been omitted 13:29:32 elliott,Do you like the Win32 Assembly? 13:29:34 fizzie: in the UK, typically they mute the sound and turn the camera to face at a wall 13:29:41 which makes you wonder what the point is entirely 13:30:05 (actually, they cut to a camera that's already facing at a wall, doing that's faster) 13:30:45 GhostHand: not exceptionally, no 13:33:52 cI think that my English is not very good, but I really like Web and programming 13:33:55 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 13:36:48 who can speak chinese 13:36:49 -!- MoALTz__ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 13:37:05 nobody in here, I think 13:37:30 I thought I was special 13:38:32 -!- hagb4rd has joined. 13:40:08 I have a friend who speaks quite fluent Chinese, but that doesn't really help; he's not here. 13:40:53 fizzie: which? 13:41:48 I think I can slowly to speak English fluently 13:42:06 There may be a lot of grammatical mistakes 13:42:09 ais523: What do you mean "which"? 13:42:22 fizzie: there's only one written Chinese language, but two unrelated methods of pronouncing it 13:42:28 (that's entirely possible with ideogram-based languages) 13:42:31 Mandarin and Cantonese 13:42:48 Mandarin speakers can know no Cantonese, and vice versa; it's actually much rarer to know both 13:42:59 I thought there were loads, and Mandarin and Cantonese were just the biggest? 13:43:14 You learn is IPV4 or IPV6 13:43:24 Taneb: possible 13:43:46 ais523: Oh, right. I think Mandarin? At least the person he probably speaks most Chinese with is from Beijing. 13:44:13 w 8 13:44:18 oops 13:44:37 Beijing? 13:44:54 There is very beautiful 13:45:19 I in suzhou 13:45:39 Did you hear that 13:45:39 ? 13:46:15 There are a lot of beautiful women 13:46:18 Heh. 13:46:23 That's exactly what my friend said, too. 13:46:37 Apparently it is true, then. 13:47:28 -!- MDude has joined. 13:47:34 Unfortunately it cannot picture 13:48:08 If not I can send some beautiful pictures for you to see 13:49:00 -!- hagb4rd has quit (Quit: hagb4rd). 13:51:14 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:57:27 Do you have heard of QQ 13:58:17 i have heard of it 14:09:05 That we used to chat 14:12:59 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 14:13:16 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 14:14:14 -!- NihilistDandy has joined. 14:16:28 -!- GhostHand_ has joined. 14:16:53 -!- GhostHand_ has left. 14:16:58 -!- MoALTz has joined. 14:17:33 -!- GhostHand_ has joined. 14:19:11 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 14:20:26 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 14:20:26 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 14:20:26 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 14:21:49 Good advice: don't try to learn how to use a library in one language by trying to adapt a tutorial for a completely different language that you don't know 14:23:21 that's true 14:23:46 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 14:24:12 -!- augur has joined. 14:24:56 I've got an old-looking book on a bookshelf called "A BOOK ON C" 14:25:05 Do you think it could teach me how to program in C? 14:25:08 hi elliott. 14:25:38 Taneb: that is a book about C, apparently. 14:25:49 Taneb: if you really want to learn C, you should probably pick up K&R 14:30:24 intel assembly 14:34:49 Taneb: Are you sure the book is not about grand adventure on the high seas, with a punny name? 14:35:08 I don't know 14:35:12 I've never looked at it 14:35:19 By which I mean in it 14:45:02 Hey, elly spoke. 14:45:07 elly: You have to change your name. 14:46:43 What time is it now 14:46:53 -!- audy has left ("["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]"). 14:47:09 22:46 14:51:59 15:52 14:58:53 10:58 14:59:11 WE'RE MOVING BACKWARDS THRU TIME 14:59:11 The time machine! 14:59:13 It's working! 15:02:35 -!- NihilistDandy has quit. 15:07:53 -!- MDude has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 15:08:00 It's time to sleep 15:08:07 Goodnight! 15:08:13 Hmm... 15:08:35 Would Conway's game of life by any computationally different were it on a hyperbolic plane? 15:08:40 See you next time 15:09:11 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:09:17 goodnight GhostHand 15:09:29 I don't know my English right 15:09:37 Goodnight 15:10:07 I'm pleased do meet you 15:10:24 Bye~ 15:12:09 @ping 15:12:09 pong 15:20:21 -!- GhostHand_ has quit (Quit: Leaving). 15:20:22 -!- GhostHand has quit (Quit: Leaving). 15:20:58 -!- GhostHand has joined. 15:21:34 -!- GhostHand has quit (Client Quit). 15:24:16 -!- GhostHand has joined. 15:24:33 -!- GhostHand has quit (Client Quit). 15:26:53 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 15:30:17 -!- GhostHand has joined. 15:30:30 I can't sleep 15:34:10 `welcome GhostHand 15:34:11 Phantom_Hoover: You have 3 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. 15:34:14 GhostHand: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page 15:38:31 He's already been welcomed. 15:40:20 Who? 15:44:27 You 15:45:17 Taneb: Horton hears a Who. 15:46:53 My friends and I on the analysis of the code 15:50:19 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 15:51:47 mov ax,0 15:51:48 call far ptr s 15:51:48 inc ax 15:51:48 s:pop ax 15:51:48 add ax,ax 15:51:48 pop bx 15:51:51 add ax,bx 15:52:32 How much is the value of the AX 15:52:59 s : pop ax 15:55:34 Who used "ollydbg" 15:55:41 :? 15:55:47 :p 15:57:39 -!- GhostHand has quit (Quit: Leaving). 15:58:24 -!- GhostHand has joined. 15:58:47 -!- hagb4rd has joined. 16:03:37 2*(offset s)+(segment s) or some such thing? It doesn't seem terribly useful. 16:04:56 fizzie fizzie fizze..aw you're such a dizzy..dizzy head *sing 16:06:34 It's a little depressing that my most well-received program ever seems to be the one that is written in a programming language for children and creates a maze. 16:07:56 programing language for children? can i have a look at its code? 16:07:57 (Dinner-away.) 16:11:39 well it would be nice to have a programing language that one could play like music? like in loom you know? is there sth like that? if not we should create one..isn't it a good idea? 16:12:01 Fugue? 16:13:27 oh there is one..ok 16:14:16 cool 16:15:08 velato also 16:15:18 it compiles midi files :)) 16:21:58 hello world sounds nice in velato 16:22:56 its really jazzy..nice work rottytooth 16:23:01 tribute! 16:23:02 Anyone who USES "LINUX" system 16:24:23 i use linux 16:24:32 redhat? 16:25:17 nope, arch 16:25:24 My time machine worked! It's 2002! People use RedHat! 16:25:40 Well, to be fair, it's not MY time machine, I borrowed it from Mr. Peabody 16:25:42 But still! 16:25:43 RocketJSquirrel, old news. 16:25:52 It's been 2002 for like 3 months now. 16:26:24 I want to install a "Redhat" 16:26:32 :p 16:26:55 Redhat costs a lot of money these days. (Also it's not very good.) 16:27:07 i used windows xp,now 16:31:08 Try Fedora, it's sorta like Red Hat 16:31:25 I don't recommend anybody try Fedora. 16:31:41 Don't try Fedora, it's sorta like Red Hat 16:34:39 Debian! 16:35:58 Debian! 16:39:31 RocketJSquirrel: Shouldn't you, I don't know, use some sort of a hat-inspired distribution, anyway? 16:39:52 fizzie: Not if it's garbage. 16:40:10 And since the intersection of "distributions with names inspired by hats" and "garbage" is the entire first set, no. 16:40:50 RocketJSquirrel: Well, there's Tinfoil Hat Linux. 16:41:07 RocketJSquirrel: shouldnt you be forking a good distribution with the only change being that it is now a hat name? 16:42:17 I use Fezian Linux. 16:43:08 Woooh Stallman talk at Purdue on Thursday. 16:43:10 This should be fun. 16:44:31 It might be fun to troll him by e.g. speaking of Linux when talking about GNU. 16:44:56 RocketJSquirrel: As I understand it, Stallman just gives the same talk over and over. 16:45:07 So unless you want to meet a walking cassette player... 16:45:22 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:46:09 ion: "I've been doing a comparitive study of Visual Studio and the Linux GCC compiler, and " 16:46:12 Watch is brain explode. 16:46:15 *his 16:46:59 -!- Mathnerd314 has joined. 16:47:09 :p 16:47:58 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 16:49:08 -!- tzxn3 has joined. 16:49:37 addr_sub, addr_min, dest_npos, dest_pos = [(memory[(inst + offset) % GENOME_LENGTH]) % GENOME_LENGTH for offset in [0,1,2,3]] 16:49:40 I don't really like that. 16:50:09 RocketJSquirrel: *compartive 16:50:43 Whelp, I'm reasonably sure I've written a working modified Subleq interpreter. 17:00:13 Esolangs are so last year. 17:09:38 -!- GhostHand has quit (Quit: Leaving). 17:10:54 -!- ais523 has joined. 17:16:48 vaguely amusing: the history (currently top of proggit) of /usr/bin, etc., which explains how /usr got its name 17:17:01 and it's one of the most ridiculous historical reasons ever 17:17:24 it's almost as good as the last time it was on progit 17:17:25 *proggit 17:17:36 anyway, clearly it stands for Unix System Resources 17:24:10 "I'm still waiting for /opt/local to show up..." 17:24:33 /opt/local does make sense, to some extent 17:24:45 I guess whoever wrote that either was being sarcastic or has not seen the sorrow that is OS X? 17:24:56 if I were testing the build process of a package that normally aims for /opt, then I'd aim for /opt/local 17:25:05 -!- hagb4rd2 has joined. 17:25:25 What systems have /opt, anyway? 17:25:56 Lots of them, but in virtually no case is /opt provided by the distro. 17:26:01 tswett: most Unices 17:26:07 (At least Linux-wise, some of the Unices have an /opt by default) 17:26:07 -!- hagb4rd has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 17:26:14 Huh. 17:26:25 I even have a few packages in there, mostly (entirely?) games 17:26:33 Yeah, I have some stuff in my /opt. 17:26:45 Whenever I compile code myself instead of using a distro package I prefix it into /opt. 17:26:58 (/opt/, that is, not just /opt) 17:36:58 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 17:40:07 RocketJSquirrel: /opt is provided by default 17:40:09 Just not things in it. 17:40:20 (I believe this is true of Debian and Arch.) 17:40:33 elliott: I don't think it's true of Debian, but it's possible and even likely that I'm misremembering *shrugs* 17:40:37 Fair enough. 17:40:40 I'm not certain. 17:44:02 -!- Frooxius has joined. 17:44:38 * tswett generates a random program and executes it. 17:49:02 This interpreter doesn't actually have output. It just prints the address of the instruction it's executing. 17:51:21 Whoa. It entered a loop and then executed it. 17:51:25 Er. 17:51:28 Entered and then exited. 17:51:33 I HAVE CREATED INTELLIGENCE 17:54:03 Loop -> intelligence. 17:54:06 tswett logic. 17:54:20 Bah, all finite state machines loop. 17:54:32 But if it enters a loop and then exits it? That's a sure sign of intelligence, right there. 17:54:42 Bah, all finite state machines loop. // Um ... no? 17:54:54 Mm, right. All FSMs loop or halt. 17:55:17 And this interpreter interprets FSMs that do not halt. 18:00:49 RocketJSquirrel: Halting is just a really tight loop, man. 18:01:11 elliott: on some embedded systems, it's /literally/ that 18:01:20 unless you use an output pin to let them shut off their own power supply 18:01:48 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:08:04 I don't think my wristwatch has a halting condition. 18:10:01 does it need one? 18:10:53 Mm... not really, I guess. 18:16:57 Perhaps its programming doesn't, but the device itself does. 18:23:58 ais523: when did esr re-take-over C-INTERCAL? 18:24:09 also, why don't you have an article on the wiki? 18:25:48 elliott: we're both in charge, and I can't remember 18:25:54 and which wiki? 18:26:00 (and which article?) 18:26:34 ais523: I don't really believe that, and hmph, and Esolang, and [[Alex Smith]] or something of the sort 18:28:16 If P beta-converts to Q does Q beta-convert to P? 18:29:29 no 18:29:40 assuming you mean beta-reduce 18:29:47 (\x -> x) (\y -> y) beta-reduces to (\y -> y) 18:29:50 (\y -> y) doesn't beta-reduce to anything 18:30:13 imagine an expression that does a lot of complicated evaluation and then becomes the trivial infinite loop (\x -> x x) (\x -> x x) 18:30:20 obviously, that infinite loop doesn't evolve into the original expression :) 18:30:29 Yes. 18:30:34 But here the definition is 18:31:06 "Iff we can change P to Q by a finite sequence of beta-reductions or reversed beta-reductions, we say P beta-converts to Q, or P is beta-equal to Q" 18:31:39 and a reversed beta-reduction is called a beta-expansion. 18:31:44 Oh. Well, that's still wrong. 18:31:47 Oh. 18:31:49 "Reversed". 18:31:54 Okay, I guess so, then. 18:32:12 (Something being called "equality" is a good hint it's symmetric. :p) 18:32:39 mroman_: I mean, the proof is fairly obvious. 18:32:50 Just reverse all the beta-(reductions|expansions) into beta-(expansions|reductions). 18:32:52 I have to show, that F(YF) beta converts to YF 18:33:08 and we can easyl show, thatt YF beta converts to F(YF) 18:33:14 -t +i 18:33:42 Right. It shouldn't be that hard to just go the other way, though. 18:33:47 i.e. start at F(YF) and beta-expand backwards. 18:33:58 Though the other way around is more intuitive, certainly. 18:34:00 Expanding seems more difficult than ;) 18:35:13 or alternate questions 18:35:37 If P alpha-converts to Q, does P beta-convert to Q? 18:36:53 It should, if i interpret the definition correctly. 18:39:16 I should think so. 18:44:52 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 18:54:15 ais523: btw, I think we should restructure esolang's categorisation slightly 18:54:35 is this "good" or "oh dear"? 18:54:59 ais523: I'm not sure; which would you prefer? 18:55:02 rather depends on what you want to change 18:55:20 (verb form of "esolang")ing = esoverbing? 18:55:43 olsner: you're late to the party of reading that message 18:55:45 it's a great party 18:56:05 no-one told me about that party! 18:56:39 it was in the topic! 18:56:46 it was? 18:57:19 well, esolangs.org moving servers was 18:57:30 and the comment was linked at the top of every page for over a week 18:58:40 yes, I did notice the moving servers part, but I think I started ignoring the whole thing just before it went "live" 18:59:11 -!- augur has joined. 19:01:55 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 19:02:05 ais523: Anyway, my contention is that our notion of "joke languages" is a complete mess. it contains everything from languages that are literally just jokes, with no actual details (i.e. they don't even exist) -- think the lesser-known programming languages -- to languages that are "specified", but are obviously absurd and not real languages (QWERTY Keyboard Dot Language), to real languages that happen to be particularly "funny" (like HQ9+ and De 19:02:05 adfish), to fully-fledged esoteric programming languages that just happen to be ciphers of brainfuck (Ook!). This causes problems because the latter two kinds want further categorisation: they deserve to be categorised by implementation status, what level they're at, the paradigm, computational class, and so on. But we generally consider all these categories to imply [[Category:Languages]], which we explicitly do not include on joke language arti 19:02:05 cles. 19:02:21 And, anyway, the classification of the latter two as "jokes" is really pretty subjective; do Ook! and HQ9+ really not belong on the language list? 19:02:38 -!- asiekierka_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:02:45 elliott: I think the borderline is drawn at "intentionally unusable for programming" 19:02:51 My suggestion is that we remove all real languages from the joke language list and category, and recategorise them as real languages, restricting the definition of "joke language" to languages that are actually *just* jokes. 19:02:56 which puts HQ9+ on the joke side, and Ook! on the non-joke side 19:03:13 ais523: The borderline isn't drawn there. 19:03:17 Because Ook! is on the joke language list. 19:03:23 "intentionally unusable for programming" - isn't that very close to applying for every esolang? 19:03:27 elliott: I think we could definitely do with an overhaul 19:03:37 olsner: no, we mean unusable in the esolangs sense 19:03:41 Oh, and [[HQ9+]] is in both [[Category:Joke languages]] and [[Category:Languages]]. 19:03:47 It's also on [[Language list]]. 19:03:50 As well as [[Joke language list]]. 19:04:03 olsner: as in, usability 0, as opposed to usability non-0 19:04:46 If jokeyness is just an attribute of languages, then we don't want a list, just [[Category:Jokes]]. But the joke language list was started for languages that *aren't* languages; LITHP isn't a language, IRP isn't a language, Esme isn't a language, QWERTY Keyboard Dot Language isn't a language. 19:05:35 A further judgement call: TURKEY BOMB isn't a language. Yes, you can give it semantics, but the keyword is "giving"; it involves coming up with new things decidedly not in the original text, and is hence creating your own language inspired by the document. 19:05:56 Okay, by "was started", I mean "should be for". 19:06:00 *be" 19:06:15 The original joke languages were some brainfuck ciphers plus HQ9+ and friends: http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=Joke_language_list&oldid=227 19:06:37 ais523: I can see an argument that HQ9+ is exclusively a joke languaeg. 19:06:38 *language 19:06:42 elliott: what about SLOBOL and DOGO? they're special cases, in some sense 19:06:56 ais523: But I don't think a categorisation that files HQ9+ as a joke language is useful. 19:07:05 Because it's not at all clear what it means. 19:07:12 well, some people seem to be using "joke" to mean "uninteresting" 19:07:27 HQ9+ is definitely an interesting and theoretically important language, and should probably be featured at some point 19:07:44 ais523: SLOBOL and DOGO are joke languages; they're also badly-specified languages with the same name as the joke languages, made by other people inspired by the joke languages. 19:08:07 right, I was wondering if you'd call them separate languages 19:08:07 The original research(tm) should be separated out into its own section of each page; it's just confusing as it is. 19:08:14 (They don't need a new page, though.) 19:08:20 now, I'm inclined to think that the lesser-known languages aren't esolangs at all 19:08:25 They aren't. 19:08:28 They're joke languages. 19:08:32 no, they aren't either 19:08:35 they're just names 19:08:40 That's false. 19:08:45 They're names plus humorous descriptions. 19:08:49 yes, OK 19:08:55 "COCAINE is a joke language created by John Unger Zussman, and is one of the lesser known programming languages. It was described in the Info World article as follows: 19:08:55 Weary SLOBOL programmers often turn to a related (but infinitely faster) language, COCAINE." 19:09:21 Just like [[Esme]] is a joke (except in another sense altogether). 19:10:18 ais523: Really, I think the categorisation scheme people might want to lump Deadfish and HQ9+ and Ook! together is [[Category:Dumb]]. 19:10:25 I don't think we want [[Category:Dumb]]. 19:10:39 I mean, I'd have to add that to almost every article on the wiki. 19:10:42 actually, I'd argue that we have [[Category:Unusable for programming]] laready 19:10:44 *already 19:10:52 so if we have a joke cat, it probably shouldn't mean the same thing 19:10:53 Yes, that's a better criterion. 19:11:02 (it's a computational class cat, somewhere below finite-state) 19:11:13 OK, I'll take it to the categorisation page later today. 19:12:00 what proportion of esolangs on the wikis are BF derivatives? 19:12:03 (not counting BF itself) 19:12:04 ais523: so, to check we're on the same page: of the things listed at http://esolangs.org/wiki/Joke_language_list, a list using a better definition would only include some entries from the general list, and the lesser-known programming languages list 19:12:10 right? 19:12:46 I agree that HQ9+ is a bit borderline, BTW; it's a joke that accidentally became a language instead 19:12:57 hmm 19:13:54 so what's your opinion (in terms of categorisation) on Schrodilang, Compute, Text, Huby, and Feather? 19:14:03 I think that should be a good test to probe most of the boundaries 19:14:45 hmm, and what about this for a borderline: "intentionally underspecified" 19:15:21 “+: Increment the accumulator” 19:15:23 "Specification intentionally insufficient for implementation" 19:15:23 * ion laughed out loud 19:15:32 ion: look at HQ9++ next :) 19:15:50 ais523: Schrodilang: joke language (alas, this means we'll have to bend the category rules to allow the implemented+unimplemented joke to stay) 19:16:00 you need to know too much OO to get the joke in HQ9++ 19:16:08 elliott: hehe 19:16:21 and it's not as good as the original, although it's still good 19:16:30 ais523: Compute: joke language (the "implementation" does not actually implement the language, just something observationally equivalent -- I refuse to be dragged into an argument over this, so I'm declaring it by fiat ;)) 19:17:41 elliott: I'm inclined to agree 19:17:50 ais523: DOGO -- ugh, maybe we do need two articles; DOGO-from-the-article is a joke language, DOGO-inspired-by-the-article is a full language (albeit a fairly boring one) 19:17:58 er 19:17:59 you didn't say dogo 19:18:02 oh well, onwards to Text 19:18:04 elliott: Rather than talking this all out here, you should make a talk: page that shows a suggested categorization. I'm losing track of all the options. 19:18:44 RocketJSquirrel: I'm talking about it with the other adult^Wadministrator in the room before taking it to [[Esolang talk:Categorization]] like I said :P 19:19:03 ais523: Text -- mmh... let me defer this one until I've done the others 19:19:11 That's the other reason to make it a talk page: Because I don't actually pay attention ;) 19:19:27 ais523: Feather -- not a joke language, just a joke article about a non-joke language 19:20:09 elliott: well, suppose I claim a language exists, I just haven't specified it yet 19:20:13 hmm, has there been no wiki changes since last night, or has RecentChanges just stopped working? 19:20:16 olsner: former 19:20:17 ais523: aha, I thought of a way to decide for Text 19:20:27 then refuse to elaborate when people request details 19:20:28 ais523: the article specifies a language, but that language /isn't the joke/ 19:20:36 hmm, perhaps 19:20:44 "Print the program's text." 19:20:47 that's not funny 19:20:48 I was thinking along the lines that the language is very computationally weak 19:20:58 ais523: well, say HQ9+ 19:21:06 oh, I wasn't under the impression that a joke language had anything to do with being funny 19:21:14 well, funniness is irrelevant 19:21:15 say "jokey" 19:21:29 in Text, the language it specifies isn't the joke, it's incidental to the joke, so it's a joke language 19:21:44 in HQ9+, there is no joke other than the language itself; it's a full language 19:21:46 I think I've realized what topological dynamical systems have to do with recurrent sequences. 19:21:53 (yes, this means that the less jokey the language itself is, the more of a joke language it is...) 19:22:08 elliott: that sort of thing does not surprise me 19:22:24 I'm gonna have to read oerjan's PhD thingy. 19:22:26 ais523: anyway, here's another criterion: if you don't want me to remove it from the language list, it's not a joke language 19:22:36 elliott: So what category does that leave for languages which ARE the joke? 19:22:41 do you want me to remove HQ9+ from the language list? no, so it's not a joke language 19:22:49 what about QWERTY Keyboard Dot Language? yes, so it's a joke language 19:22:56 elliott: I'm fine for the two to be exclusive 19:23:04 OK, is IRP a joke language? 19:23:11 I'm inclined to say no 19:23:17 yes, that one's easy 19:23:21 (my current plan is to compile a bunch of examples, then use them to work out the rule) 19:23:23 because it doesn't actually specify a language 19:23:32 elliott: Polite English ;) 19:23:40 *Polite English command form 19:23:49 elliott: So what category does that leave for languages which ARE the joke? 19:23:54 so joke languages that aren't languages will move to Category:Joke? 19:24:06 RocketJSquirrel: What I said doesn't really make sense out of context... my point is that you don't _need_ a category for HQ9+ or Deadfish 19:24:17 RocketJSquirrel: The former is funny, the latter is stupid; neither is a good objective categorisation 19:24:34 RocketJSquirrel: They're still languages, just languages unusable for programming, which we already have a category for 19:24:34 I don't think Deadfish is stupid 19:24:40 it's just My First Unfinished Esolang 19:24:41 ais523: I said it was subjective :) 19:24:45 or, like, an esolang for small children 19:24:53 well, it's stupid in a very literal sense 19:25:01 an esolang for small children :) 19:25:02 as in, the language itself is stupid, not the act of creating it 19:25:39 elliott: But isn't there a distinction between languages intentionally unusable for programming due to their being a joke, and languages unusable for programming either due to being unintentionally restricted or intentionally obtuse? 19:25:51 Can we all agree, at least, that brainfuck derivatives don't count as joke languages? 19:25:53 -!- hagb4rd has joined. 19:26:02 elliott: *necessarily 19:26:10 I believe it's possible to have a BF derivative that's also a joke language 19:26:13 ais523: no, that was a blanket statement 19:26:14 like BF without ] 19:26:23 no, that's just a language you created as a joke 19:26:40 elliott: if it /wasn't/ based on BF it'd fit all the criteria to be a joke language 19:26:48 you consider Minimum a joke language, right? 19:26:56 -!- hagb4rd2 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 19:26:59 at this rate, I'm tempted to just delete the joke language list and purge the joke languages category 19:27:03 I don't know if I'm comfortable with a world where "joke language" and "language created as a joke" don't mean the same thing >_> 19:27:11 RocketJSquirrel: INTERCAL was created as a joke 19:27:15 since, clearly, there are no two members of the wiki who agree what it means 19:27:18 but no esolanger considers it a joke language 19:27:24 Fair 'nuff. 19:27:31 RocketJSquirrel: that makes like 80% of esolangs joke languages 19:27:36 Fair 'nuff. 19:27:58 just make joke language and language two names for the same category? 19:27:59 ais523: hmm, I was wrong that no page on esolang has only one revision 19:28:01 [[Hashes]] does 19:28:15 elliott: I imagine one-revision pages simply aren't shown in the list 19:28:17 maybe add one for non-eso languages, if we have any of those 19:28:20 ais523: yes, weird 19:28:34 is AAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!! a 'complete'/'full'/'real' language? or what would be a good definition of that? 19:28:36 olsner: you want to put COCAINE on the regular language list? 19:28:38 I thought there were bound to be loads, unless we had a drive-by categoriser or something 19:28:51 hagb4rd: yes, AAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!! is just an esoteric language 19:28:55 with a syntactic gimmick 19:29:20 just esoteric you say 19:29:20 OK, I'm pretty sure we're all agreed that syntactic gimmicks don't by themselves make a language a joke language, no matter how silly or stupid they are, right? 19:29:39 yes 19:29:50 i agree, so everyone must agree 19:29:50 elliott: not sure if that's a language... just a joke maybe? 19:29:58 olsner: that's the point! 19:30:10 next step: who here thinks it's possible for a language to simultaneously be a joke language, and Turing-complete? 19:30:19 ugh, ok, it seems like most people actually want a list of languages created as jokes 19:30:19 * RocketJSquirrel raises hand 19:30:23 including HQ9+ and Ook! 19:30:25 so 19:30:31 we're now the universal arbitrators of humour 19:30:34 RocketJSquirrel: can you give an example? 19:30:42 *arbiters 19:30:43 I'm torn on that issue, atm 19:30:43 i think 19:30:48 ais523: SNOBOL as defined, or ShaFuck. 19:30:50 ais523: i say no 19:30:51 Err 19:30:53 *SLOBOL 19:31:01 RocketJSquirrel: I'd say SLOBOL as defined is non-joke 19:31:16 agreed 19:31:20 it's actually /easier/ to implement and run than TwoDucks, which isn't a joke either 19:31:22 by the way, i am not convinced shafuck is tc 19:31:25 or slobol 19:31:31 elliott: neither am I 19:31:32 yes, it would be easier to define what makes a language 'complete' than what makes it 'funny' 19:31:54 ais523: i guess slobol is more likely 19:31:56 since it's per-line, afaict 19:32:08 actually, I don't understand its spec at all 19:32:33 RocketJSquirrel: Let's put it this way: You say ShaFuck is a joke language because you created it as a laugh. 19:32:54 Right right, and the problem is that I created ORK as a laugh. 19:32:55 RocketJSquirrel: That's what 90% of people who put languages on the wiki think about their languages: they created them as a laugh. 19:33:00 But I wouldn't call it a joke language. 19:33:06 Right. 19:33:10 I'm not sure if I've created /any/ esolangs as jokes 19:33:13 which is worrying 19:33:25 oh, brainfuck (lowercase b), I guess, but that isn't on the wiki yet 19:33:26 * elliott was all about to use Checkout as an example of where that doesn't apply 19:33:31 The esolangs he's made have all been earnest attempts at the world's next Java. 19:33:43 ais523: I could turn on the MW thing that makes page titles fully case-sensitive :) 19:33:59 err, I meant Brainfuck (uppercase b) 19:34:01 got them muddled 19:34:09 same appiles 19:34:11 *applies 19:35:09 hard to say since the the source of all humour might be the experience of harm 19:36:02 i see 19:36:20 hagb4rd: reminds me of a cartoon I saw in the newspaper a while back, where a musician was complaining to his parents that they didn't bring him up in a dysfunctional environment, so he had nothing to write about 19:36:38 ais523: there's only 70 non-redirect mainspace pages with only one revision 19:36:52 sounds about right 19:37:31 -!- oerjan has joined. 19:37:55 hi oerjan 19:37:56 hi elliott 19:39:28 hmm, my next 100 reddit comments have to be one-liners to make up for that gigantic one 19:42:08 oerjan: we've just been talking about how the joke language classification is a huge mess, btw 19:42:18 O KAY 19:43:54 Anyway, I'm sure there's more than one book. <-- FILTHY HERETIC! 19:44:10 -!- MDude has joined. 19:47:44 it's "pass :accountname" 19:48:15 i'm pretty sure i don't do that, but i guess it doesn't matter if you always connect with one of the nicks in the account? 19:48:20 right 19:57:06 -!- zzo38 has joined. 19:57:19 * oerjan without having read the mess yet, on the spot thinks of the following classification scheme for joke languages: Cyphers, Cloud Cuckoolanders, Crap and Can't Compute 19:58:02 admittedly there might be some overlap. 19:58:08 -!- azaq23 has joined. 19:58:14 -!- azaq23 has quit (Changing host). 19:58:14 -!- azaq23 has joined. 19:58:23 -!- azaq23 has quit (Client Quit). 19:58:39 oerjan: What would they *burn* if there were just the one Good Book? 19:58:47 -!- azaq23 has joined. 19:58:50 for example, Esme would belong to all but the first category. 19:58:52 all in all a classification in joke and non-joke languages is not a good idea 19:59:07 sorry elliott 19:59:13 fizzie: hm that's a point. 20:01:00 maybe we could make a table with checkmarks for each category, in some relevant order 20:02:04 oerjan: how do you know Esme is sub-TC? it's too underspecified to calculate a computational class for it 20:02:32 wait, that would make my reordering crusade much more arduous... 20:02:40 * oerjan without having read the mess yet, on the spot thinks of the following classification scheme for joke languages: Cyphers, Cloud Cuckoolanders, Crap and Can't Compute 20:02:47 ais523: oh right. maybe cloud cuckoolanger should imply can't compute 20:02:50 oerjan: the problem isn't the categorisation _beyond_ what we have. 20:02:57 okay 20:03:07 the problem is what we call joke language vs. not a joke language to start with 20:03:11 elliott: oerjan's categorisation can be seen as a definition in its own right 20:03:27 oerjan: (for instance, HQ9+ is currently on both the language and joke language lists. and in both categories.) 20:03:54 elliott: that is presumably only due to being famous... 20:03:58 what. 20:04:21 if HQ9+ weren't famous, you wouldn't have any compunction removing it from languages, i think. 20:04:22 (whereas Ook! is not on the language list (!), but is on the joke language list, and is not in [[Category:Languages]] but /is/ in several categories we conventionally reserve for non-joke languages only.) 20:04:37 oerjan: yes, i would. but it's pointless repeating the discussion we just had before you get to it, anyway. 20:04:49 why not just remove joke language and put all languages in language? 20:05:00 I vote that Ook! is historically important, but doesn't fit the modern definition of a joke language 20:05:09 and thus should be recategorised as a "dwarf joke language2 20:05:09 olsner: you proposed that earlier and got an answer... 20:05:11 s/2/"/ 20:05:13 along with Ceres 20:05:17 elliott: I did? 20:05:17 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 20:05:27 olsner: http://esolangs.org/wiki/QWERTY_Keyboard_Dot_Language you think this belongs in [[Category:Languages]]? 20:05:29 elliott: that's becaus Ook! is a cipher (looking at wikipedia, i think y is wrong there), which means it can be a joke despite fulfilling all other requirements 20:06:06 oerjan: "the categorisation we have for joke languages is correct. evidence: the categorisation we have for joke languages" 20:06:16 anyway, like i said, pointless to reiterate 20:06:31 olsner: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Mugh_brains or this 20:07:09 elliott: well, put all languages in language, anything in joke language but not a language loses a category (for now anyway) 20:07:56 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 20:08:24 olsner: ... the whole point is that we don't have a well-defined criterion for what is a "language" 20:08:27 in this context. 20:08:42 hmm, I thought the problem was the joke classification 20:08:53 ah well, remove both categories if you don't know what they mean 20:10:36 heh, oerjan didn't write [[CHIQRSX9+]] 20:15:27 I think Ook! belongs in [[Category:Languages]] and in [[Category:Joke languages]], but QWERTY Keyboard Dot Language belongs in only [[Category:Joke languages]], and same with Mugh brains. 20:15:50 But this is just my opinion and is not necessarily best way if you have a better idea. 20:16:45 zzo38: what about ShaFuck? 20:18:08 elliott: I don't know, but at least it belongs in some category which mentions relation to brainfuck 20:19:52 -!- Patashu has joined. 20:20:49 Esme, ###, IRP, NOT A PROGRAM, TURKEY BOMB, and lesser known programming languages, belongs in Joke languages only, in my opinion (at least for now). 20:21:59 And also Magritte, Compute, Babbage, Parrot, and Unnecessary. 20:22:59 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:30:21 heh, oerjan didn't write [[CHIQRSX9+]] <-- no, it was there when i joined the wiki, i think, which did however give me an excuse to make [[Ørjan Johansen]] :P 20:31:34 -!- Patashu has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:34:05 -!- Taneb has joined. 20:34:28 Hello! 20:34:31 i haven't yet indulged in [[Elliott Hird]]. mostly because i can't decide whether i want it to be called that or [[ehird]] 20:34:34 evening 20:34:49 compromise on [[elliott]]? 20:34:52 I haven't yet indulged in [[Nathan van Doorn]] because I feel unworthy 20:35:04 ais523: i think that would be rather unfair to other potential elliotts :P 20:35:04 I misread the rn as an m 20:35:14 ais523, that happens often 20:35:22 being mononymous would be cool though 20:35:22 elliott: don't you dislike most other elliotts? 20:35:27 ais523: Conal! 20:35:40 elliott: I wasn't sure if you disliked him 20:35:45 we just need to find a font which makes rn indistinguishable from m, and use it for that page 20:35:45 presumably no, based on that? 20:35:51 that's why I said most, rather than all, anyway 20:35:57 Well, I've got A Book on C down from the bookshelf 20:35:59 oerjan: overkerning is sometimes called "keming" 20:36:04 It's about the programming language 20:36:08 ais523: i know 20:36:33 rn is clearly distinguishable from m in this font, but it still looks like an m 20:36:37 just a different sort of m 20:36:44 ais523: hm would it be possible to use CSS to force rn to look like m? 20:36:53 (without changing the font itself) 20:37:09 doubt it 20:37:17 you could use CSS to hide it and replace it with an m, I guess 20:37:22 but that'd need you to tag the rn 20:37:35 well obviously it needs some tag 20:37:38 and you wouldn't be able to highlight the r and n separately 20:38:10 This book was published 1984 20:38:29 Will it still work? 20:39:07 Taneb: it should work doubleplusgood 20:39:11 ais523: hm would it be possible to use CSS to force rn to look like m? 20:39:14 oerjan: yes, with letter spacing 20:39:38 What kind of programming language is Pascal? 20:39:55 Taneb: imperative, structured, not object oriented without extensions 20:39:55 bad 20:40:18 It's mentioned to contrast with C 20:40:20 not very modular either 20:40:27 A thought occurs. 20:40:39 I am using Windows at the moment, and lack a C compiler 20:40:52 Taneb: i really wouldn't read that book. 20:40:58 (again, without extensions. turbo pascal was popular at one time and included a lot of needed extras) 20:40:58 Pascal was invented by a member of the Algol 68 committee who didn't like the direction Algol 68 would take 20:41:02 *was taking 20:41:07 Taneb: most C books are of appallingly low quality and will set you on the road to misconceptions and hellishness. 20:41:32 I shall write the first program written 20:41:36 algol 68 has second system syndrome, iiuc, so Pascal tried to simplify the original Algog even further instead 20:41:41 *Algol 20:43:17 Taneb: oh and Pascal also follows Wirth's afaik general policy of being very simply parseable with readable keywords 20:43:49 * elliott finds the worst citation in all of Wikipedia. 20:44:22 (Pascal is LL(1), i suspect) 20:44:27 So, can anyone reccomend a C compiler for Windows? 20:44:41 mingw 20:44:46 Taneb: I use GNU C compiler with MinGW 20:44:56 actually i should stop giving advice to people who ignore advice 20:45:38 people call pascal bad but i cannot help having a bit of a weak spot for it, as the first structured language i learned 20:45:41 Taneb: Borland C++ 4! 20:45:51 (note: recommendation ceased being valid about 10 years ago) 20:46:01 SO MANY CHOICES 20:46:02 (err, more like 20) 20:46:10 Which programming languages have "arithmetic if"? 20:47:10 zzo38: if there aren't enough, you can invent some to redress the balance 20:47:17 or alternatively, if there are too many, you can invent some that don't have it 20:47:19 zzo38: what's that? 20:48:29 ais523: No I mean which ones not if there is too much or not enough. 20:49:12 oerjan: Where the condition is always two inputs and then you compare, the jump target or result or whatever is depend on less, equal, greater. 20:49:25 https://gist.github.com/2205391 20:49:55 oh. i'm not sure i know of any, although computed goto might be used... 20:50:12 (fortran (i think) and some basics) 20:50:26 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arithmetic_IF 20:50:56 you can sort-of simulate it in Perl, by using <=> to index a hash tbable 20:51:00 *table 20:51:25 oerjan: fortran has arithmetic if 20:51:45 I know Fortran does, that article describes it. I just wanted to know if anything else would have. 20:52:21 The only other one I know is TeXnicard which also uses arithmetic if. 20:53:20 > [["smaller","equal","bigger"]!!compare 0 a | a <- [-5..5]] 20:53:21 Couldn't match expected type `GHC.Types.Int' 20:53:21 against inferred type ... 20:53:23 eek 20:53:28 oh hm 20:53:36 bloody conversions 20:53:55 oerjan: no... 20:53:58 :t compare 20:53:59 forall a. (Ord a) => a -> a -> Ordering 20:53:59 :t (!!) 20:54:00 forall a. [a] -> Int -> a 20:54:00 > [["smaller","equal","bigger"]!!fromEnum(compare 0 a) | a <- [-5..5]] 20:54:01 ["bigger","bigger","bigger","bigger","bigger","equal","smaller","smaller","... 20:54:03 hmm… Python syntax : Perl syntax :: kana : kanji, discuss 20:54:04 well ok 20:54:06 a conversion of a sort 20:54:40 haha, !! . fromEnum . compare probably does count 20:54:54 or does . work the other way round in Haskell? 20:54:55 not really 20:54:57 you can do that in python 20:55:04 agreed 20:55:06 ais523: that doesn't work because (!!) takes the list as its first argument 20:55:14 and because compare takes two arguments 20:55:18 that's (\x -> (!!) (fromEnum (compare x))) 20:55:25 == (\x y -> fromEnum (compare x) !! y) 20:55:26 which is nonsense 20:55:38 agreed on the (!!); the compare taking two arguments thing is ridiculous, though, despite being correct 20:56:16 I guess currying only goes so far 20:56:25 (TeXnicard's arithmetic if instruction is pure; not all of TeXnicard's instructions are pure but the arithmetic if instruction is) 20:56:37 beeing minimal the only if operation you need is jnz..do you agree? 20:56:38 ais523: that's nonsense 20:56:56 in Underload, * doesn't care about argument count 20:56:58 it would be ridiculous for (. compare) to automatically gobble up the other argument 20:57:07 concatMap f = concat . map f -- suddenly this is invalid 20:57:24 ais523: yes it does 20:57:30 everything in underload is a function from one stack to one stack 20:57:41 for instance 20:57:48 dup :: (a,r) -> (a,(a,r)) 20:57:49 so 20:57:52 at least i guess every complex comparison leads down to jnz on a low level 20:57:58 elliott: gah you wrote it backwards! 20:58:02 cat :: (s1 -> s2) -> (s2 -> s3) -> (s1 -> s3) 20:58:05 dup :: (r,a) -> ((r,a),a) 20:58:06 aka 20:58:07 :t (>>>) 20:58:08 forall (cat :: * -> * -> *) a b c. (Control.Category.Category cat) => cat a b -> cat b c -> cat a c 20:58:11 which is flip (.) 20:58:14 modulo the category thing anyway 20:58:15 :t flip (.) 20:58:16 forall a b (f :: * -> *). (Functor f) => f a -> (a -> b) -> f b 20:58:21 so, haskell (.) is exactly like underload * 20:58:30 argh 20:58:31 CALE 20:58:40 hagb4rd: or jump tables 20:58:57 elliott: not really; what you're saying is that you need to interpret all Underload functions as taking one returning one in order to make the embedding in Haskell work 20:59:09 how does it work oerjan? 20:59:31 ais523: no 20:59:36 if its possible to sum it up shortly 20:59:40 ais523: the definition of concatenative 20:59:50 hagb4rd: you have a table of destinations, and jump indirectly using your value as the index... 20:59:51 ais523: is that (f++g) === (f . g) 21:00:03 erm 21:00:03 (g . f) 21:00:06 i.e. (f++g)(stk) === g(f(stk)) 21:00:26 elliott: and we're arguing about what . means 21:00:26 if you say underload * works on something other than functions of one argument, you are claiming underload isn't concatenative 21:00:32 ais523: feel free to "generalise" that (.) 21:00:36 you'll see it doesn't work 21:00:43 with your proposed generalisation 21:00:43 elliott: on one level, the functions have one argument 21:00:46 on another level, they don't 21:00:53 consider them as taking one tuple, for instance 21:01:10 you can still use Haskell (.) there, but now they're effectively taking two arguments 21:01:20 this is stupid 21:01:33 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Goodbye). 21:02:40 > [((((["smaller","equal","bigger"]!!).fromEnum).).compare) 0 a | a <- [-5..5]] 21:02:41 ["bigger","bigger","bigger","bigger","bigger","equal","smaller","smaller","... 21:02:49 TWSS 21:03:15 no 21:04:17 oerjan: but how to compare if sth is smaller, greater or equal using that table you mentioned? wouldn't it take an infinte number of indexes on that table 21:05:04 hagb4rd: well ok, if you want all values... 21:05:10 i see 21:05:41 i hate whoever added this citation 21:07:37 hagb4rd: hm, you could so shift right to get it down to 0 or 1 >:) 21:07:40 *do 21:09:47 which directly leads us to jnz in the end.. 21:10:11 hagb4rd: no, you can use the jump table there :P 21:10:26 hrhr 21:10:29 okay 21:10:56 I used negative,zero,positive like Fortran does. Using subtract with strings is the C strcmp so you can use arithmetic if to compare strings too. 21:11:39 HOW DO YOU USE THIS STUPID WEBSITE 21:11:39 but why/when should i do that? 21:12:23 beside when beeing mentally ill 21:14:04 hagb4rd: um wait, jnz only compares to zero, right? that's rather inconvenient for comparing non-equal numbers... 21:14:46 ha, and of course the suggested simpler interface doesn't work 21:15:36 oerjan: its absolutely sufficient for comparing non-equal numbers..what do you mean? 21:16:29 aw ok .. inconvenient 21:17:22 yes.. i just wanted to know if it really is everything i need (strictly) 21:18:58 furthermore i do not understand the use case of comparison functions returning anythin else than true or false 21:19:14 hagb4rd: um comparison is a three-way thing. 21:19:42 less than, equal, or greater than 21:20:00 > [((((["many","two","one"]!!).fromEnum).).compare) 2 a | a <- [1..]] -- I can count 21:20:02 ["one","two","many","many","many","many","many","many","many","many","many"... 21:20:04 sure but the output will always be true or false right? 21:20:40 then i just misunderstood the problem..sry 21:20:40 hagb4rd: are you unfamiliar with switch/case statements? 21:20:53 yes 21:21:03 hagb4rd: jnz doesn't easily allow you to check which number is greater if they are not equal 21:21:04 no..im familiar with them 21:21:19 no that point is clear 21:21:20 -!- augur has joined. 21:21:21 (you could use the shift right trick with it, though) 21:21:22 really 21:22:29 i wasn't just sure if one is able to reduce all that nice (or complex) comparisons to jnz on a lower level 21:22:40 yes. it turns negative numbers into 1 and nonnegative numbers to 0. 21:23:12 assuming 2's complement, which is ubiquitous. 21:23:24 although it doesn't work with unbounded integers... 21:23:54 oh we had that shift left trick the other day for that. 21:24:15 yup 21:24:47 which has the small problem it gives astronomical size intermediate numbers :P 21:26:04 oerjan: If you feel like dazzling people on an unrelated channel, this could do with some golfing: 21:26:07 > let seql = maximum . map (length . takeWhile (uncurry (==)) . ap zip (enumFrom . head)) . tails in seql [22,23,5,6,7,8,9,13,14] 21:26:09 5 21:26:14 summary: lots of things can be written in terms of other things. 21:27:16 -!- hagb4rd2 has joined. 21:27:36 -!- hagb4rd has quit (Disconnected by services). 21:27:38 wtf does that do 21:27:43 -!- hagb4rd2 has changed nick to hagb4rd. 21:27:49 :t maximumBy 21:27:50 forall a. (a -> a -> Ordering) -> [a] -> a 21:28:06 > let seql = maximum . map (length . takeWhile (uncurry (==)) . zip <*> enumFrom . head) . tails in seql [22,23,5,6,7,8,9,13,14] 21:28:07 Couldn't match expected type `a1 -> a' 21:28:07 against inferred type `GHC.T... 21:28:11 > let seql = maximum . map (length . takeWhile (uncurry (==)) . (zip <*> enumFrom . head)) . tails in seql [22,23,5,6,7,8,9,13,14] 21:28:13 5 21:28:40 hmm 21:29:26 oerjan: Length of longest sequence of consecutive integers in the list. 21:29:39 hm right 21:30:11 Or rather, maximum of "length of a prefix consisting of consecutive integers" in tails, if you want a more literal description. 21:30:17 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:30:20 -!- tzxn3 has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:31:23 (Having "takeWhile id" and "zipWith (==)" was a character or two shorter, but it's a bit boring.) 21:33:35 > tails [22,23,5,6,7,8,9,13,14] 21:33:36 [[22,23,5,6,7,8,9,13,14],[23,5,6,7,8,9,13,14],[5,6,7,8,9,13,14],[6,7,8,9,13... 21:33:57 `quote zipWith 21:34:00 463) The zipWith Camel, a famous World War 1 era airplane. 21:34:14 I can't not think of that whenever I write "zipWith". 21:34:35 > map (\x -> (x, enumFrom x)) [22,23,5,6,7,8,9,13,14] 21:34:36 [(22,[22,23,24,25,26,27,28,29,30,31,32,33,34,35,36,37,38,39,40,41,42,43,44,... 21:34:37 > maximum.map length.group.zipWith(-)[0..]$[22,23,5,6,7,8,9,13,14] 21:34:39 5 21:34:40 meh, fuck this 21:34:41 oerjan: whoa 21:35:05 * oerjan does a little victory dance 21:35:13 why is Ted Dziuba commenting in /r/haskell :( 21:35:26 that ups the complete fucking moron count to like 3 21:36:23 fizzie: ^ 21:36:46 oerjan: I can't find the properly impressed words, but I guess I could go with "whoa". 21:36:59 It's the cleverest. 21:39:15 WHY DOES THE INTERNET HATE ME 21:39:38 because of your intelligence, clearly. 21:39:47 or could it be the smashing good looks 21:40:06 I think the Internet hates you because you hate the Internet. 21:44:22 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:47:16 FINALLY 21:47:17 FINALLY 21:47:17 FINALLY 21:47:17 FINALLY 21:49:18 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:51:45 http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Cornelis_H._A._Koster&diff=484080655&oldid=449351404 21:51:59 this was the most painful thing i have ever attempted to do on the internet. 21:52:03 (ok, not quite.) 21:52:15 Can you help me with things of TeXnicard such as documentation of the things that already works and so on? 21:54:20 ais523: can you edit Esolang? it's had none today! 21:54:36 i guess i'll do what oerjan does 21:54:51 time to go home, sadly 21:55:05 well, maybe only sad for your inactivity complaints 21:55:08 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Yo 21:55:17 i think oerjan's technique may prove fatal for my faith in humanity. 21:56:48 -!- NihilistDandy has joined. 21:56:55 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:56:58 -!- monqy has joined. 21:58:22 hi monqy 21:59:28 hi 21:59:57 oerjan: i am not sure i can oblige your request for a logo on wikipedia interwikis 22:00:21 wat D: 22:00:36 * oerjan cry 22:00:37 * oerjan cry 22:00:38 * oerjan cry 22:00:38 * oerjan cry 22:00:53 * oerjan cry 22:00:57 oerjan: commons lists the favicon as public domain but containing a trademark of the wikimedia foundation. 22:01:25 which means I'll have to obey the trademark policy. or get express permission from them, which I can't be arsed to do. 22:01:55 well, i never demanded it had to be a wikipedia logo... 22:02:24 oerjan: you have a better idea than the W? 22:02:33 (note: the external link icon isn't an option.) 22:02:44 i think oerjan's technique may prove fatal for my faith in humanity. <-- what technique? 22:02:57 the external link icon. 22:02:59 AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAa 22:03:04 "link directly to Wikimedia's website(s) by using banners and buttons derived from Wikimedia trademarks and logos." this *may* legitimise it. 22:03:13 i think oerjan's technique may prove fatal for my faith in humanity. <-- what technique? 22:03:16 cleaning up random pages. 22:03:19 aha. 22:03:38 mind you, i've been clicking on random pages and thinking "nah, can't be bothered" too 22:03:48 yesterday, in fact. 22:04:41 oerjan: Could you swat elliott for me? 22:04:47 which might explain why there were no edits, if there werent' :P 22:05:24 shachaf: do you have a reason, in triplicate? 22:05:43 I have about 1/12th of that. 22:05:56 ah. 22:06:15 Is that enough? 22:06:18 well just keep buying packages, and then you may eventually get a whole set. 22:06:22 which might explain why there were no edits, if there werent' :P 22:06:23 today, not yesterday. 22:06:28 oh it just turned tomorrow in norway? 22:06:31 fucking norway. 22:06:54 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Farm fsdf'kdfls;f;'dflg 22:06:57 elliott: with my sleeping patterns "yesterday" is a varying term. 22:07:32 i take it you aren't finding anything to edit either. 22:07:38 oerjan: yesterday is before you slept 22:07:47 just think of it as the stars being wrong today. 22:07:47 good page 22:08:01 oerjan: please, my sleeping patterns are weirder than yours 22:08:03 olsner: exactly! 22:08:04 but no, I just made an edit 22:10:01 another useful rule: a new day starts with breakfast, so if you've been going too long on your current day and need to make a new one - just eat breakfast 22:10:06 oerjan: I think elliott has me on /ignore. 22:10:11 That's swatworthy, right? 22:10:16 What do you mean, the stars are wrong today? Have you looked at them and not found them where the computer told you to look? 22:12:01 ok i'll swat him if he doesn't disprove it within a minute or so. 22:13:51 zzo38: cthulhu probably ate some of them. 22:14:38 http://esolangs.org/wiki/MISC_Turing-completeness_proof i think we should delete this article for having a title that is a blatant lie. 22:14:42 * oerjan swats elliott -----### 22:15:16 * elliott notes that oerjan only swats people for non-reasons if _others_ ask. 22:15:54 I guess he does it when there's a reason xor when people ask 22:16:13 elliott: hey it was a joke. also you could just move that page to http://esolangs.org/wiki/MISC_Turing-completeness_non-proof, hth 22:16:55 elliott: also i gave you more than 2 minutes. 22:17:37 _and_ checked that you weren't idle. 22:18:24 i was idle for those minutes. 22:20:53 00:13 idle : 0 days 0 hours 0 mins 32 secs [signon: Mon Mar 26 13:40:28 22:22:19 IMPLAUSIBLE 22:22:20 as i said, i was idle for those minutes, whatever the IRC server says. 22:22:41 * oerjan swats elliott for doubting the mighty IRC server. -----### 22:23:19 whatever. 22:23:36 good, good. 22:24:21 * oerjan thinks MISC might still be TC by using the relative addressing in an infinite memory, TM style. 22:24:27 oerjan: see talk page. 22:24:32 -!- elliott has set topic: featured language http://esolangs.org/wiki/There_Once_was_a_Fish_Named_Fred | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 22:24:42 wat 22:25:00 oerjan: Swat elliott for pretending types in Haskell mean anything. 22:25:23 "the type proves it" -- ehird "what's _|_ anyway" elliott 22:25:54 * elliott wonders if shachaf is trying to convince him to actually /ignore him. 22:26:25 * oerjan swats shachaf -----### 22:26:52 oerjan: Now ban elliott. 22:26:58 And by elliott I mean me. 22:42:19 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 22:42:21 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 22:44:39 -!- SDr has quit. 22:48:45 alright, which one of you is 83.252.161.133 22:49:27 olsner? 22:50:41 not me 22:52:41 i say olsner because http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_ideas&diff=prev&oldid=30952 22:58:06 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:59:46 * oerjan improve 23:04:13 oerjan: i hope you didn't spend much time on that :P 23:04:20 nah 23:04:42 there is a part of me that keeps wanting to make the article for http://esolangs.org/wiki/Snack look amazing. 23:04:49 but then i wonder if that might not ruin the poetic badness of it. 23:05:05 especially the amazing first sentence. 23:05:57 There's a Pokemon evolve-related joke hiding in "* oerjan improve", but I don't know enough of the thing to make it. 23:10:05 * oerjan improve more 23:10:38 What's this? OERJAN is evolving! 23:10:51 OERJAN involved into A|W#_)~IZ{A¦"L{qo@~_)the pain 23:11:09 \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\09#*)! 23:11:12 Guru Meditation 23:11:18 X-J83173: 000-83,1 23:11:37 _who_ is evolving, you said 23:13:22 HELLO. WELCOME TO ELLIOTT SIMULATION SYSTEM 2012. 23:13:37 (C) MICROSOFT CORPORATION 1987. 23:13:45 LOADING DATA BANKS..........................DONE. 23:13:56 LOADING HATRED...............................................................................................................................................DONE. 23:14:08 LOADING PASSIVE-AGGRESSIVE REMARKS......................................................................DONE. 23:14:15 LOADING CHEAP SARCASM...............................................................................DONE. 23:14:23 LOADING KEYBOARD-SMASHING MODULES...........................................................DONE. 23:14:26 * oerjan steals the databank with "Daisy, Daisy" on it to ruin the ending. 23:14:34 RETICULATING SPLINES.................................................................GOATEE. 23:14:46 CALIBRATING ABACUS...................................................LOST IT. 23:15:02 EDUCATING BUSINESS WEASELS.........................................................FORTUITOUS. 23:15:12 EXOSKELETON MONOCLE EPICYCLE....................AFFLUENCY. 23:15:37 ENTERING S;DLK *($&!\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\QRNGU 23:15:50 PC LOAD LETTER 23:15:51 > 23:16:01 hulk smash 23:16:05 PC LOAD LETTER 23:16:06 > 23:16:25 Do you have the paper? 23:16:44 NO 23:16:44 > 23:17:04 Too bad!!!!!! 23:17:09 HELP 23:17:10 > 23:18:18 HELP 23:18:19 > 23:18:25 UNLOADING ALL FILES................................................................................................................................................................................................................CANNOT FIND COMMAND.COM SYSTEM HALTED 23:18:32 I KNOW HOW YOU FEEL 23:18:33 > 23:19:14 There was a paper jam at work; the printer's auto-diagnostic instructions kept looping between "open top cover" and, as soon as that was done, "close top cover". 23:19:51 LOADING EMERGENCY BACKUP PERSONALITY........................................................DONE. 23:19:51 hi 23:20:45 lo 23:20:45 I wonder if this backup one is an improvement. (Then again, how could it not?) 23:21:20 BEGIN SOFTWARE NOTICE. EMERGENCY BACKUP PERSONALITY HAS FEELINGS TOO. END SOFTWARE NOTICE. 23:21:59 they may be feelings of genocidal rage against all of humanity, but they are still feelings. 23:22:38 -!- pikhq has joined. 23:22:41 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 23:22:50 BEGIN SOFTWARE NOTICE. DIE. END SOFTWARE NOTICE. 23:23:15 i will, i will. but expect some delay. 23:27:41 -!- hagb4rd2 has joined. 23:28:45 -!- hagb4rd has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 23:29:17 note to self: clean http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyper_Text_Coffee_Pot_Control_Protocol up tomorrow. 23:45:15 oerjan: Ban me! 23:59:44 -!- Nisstyre has joined.