00:11:30 -!- derdon has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:11:40 -!- itidus22 has joined. 00:12:53 Synchtube is not perfect :( 00:14:24 -!- itidus20 has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 00:22:37 -!- oerjan_ has quit (Quit: What is this button for?). 00:32:34 There's no other symbol but lambda that's universally recognized as a symbol for programming languages, no? 00:33:14 lambda is not universally recognized as a symbol for programming languages 00:33:29 -!- Mathnerd314_ has joined. 00:33:34 istr it's also a symbol for lesbians? 00:33:37 kmc: It is by all who are not made of fail. 00:33:56 oerjan: EVEN BETTER 00:34:50 lambda indeed has a lot of associations: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lambda 00:35:04 -!- Mathnerd314 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 00:35:06 -!- Mathnerd314_ has changed nick to Mathnerd314. 00:35:24 OK, let me phrase that differently: 00:36:04 my point is more than putting lambdas on everything is a kind of political statement within programming languages 00:36:19 It's not that everyone recognizes it as a symbol for programming languages, but those who are "into" programming languages consider it a symbol for the concept. 00:36:27 or will be seen as such by many 00:36:52 plenty of people appreciate FP and yet are annoyed by the people who think that incorporating crazy FP concepts is the only criterion for language goodness 00:38:15 [02:36:04] my point is more than putting lambdas on everything is a kind of political statement within programming languages 00:38:16 Yep ^ 00:41:34 itidus22, the jedis lived a long time ago and are surely dead by now 00:41:55 or maybe they came to earth and are now known as.... LISP PROGRAMMERS!?!?!? 00:43:26 -!- epoch_qwert has joined. 00:56:28 kmc: yes but the galaxy is 50 million light years away, so their light may not have reached us yet 00:57:06 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Good night). 00:59:11 is that canon? 01:05:27 kmc: far far = 50 million light years 01:05:38 that's the definition 01:06:27 Are you talking about star-wars? 01:10:17 We were talking about far far away Jedis, so it's Star Trek, clearly. 01:12:31 All I saw that hinted at starwars was "galaxy ... away" and "far far" 01:13:06 olsner: How many light years is far? 01:13:20 far far = 50 million, far = sqrt(far far) ? 01:13:33 depends on what ' ' means? 01:20:38 -!- Mortchek has left. 01:20:55 -!- TodPunk has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:21:02 -!- Tod-Autojoined has joined. 01:37:33 -!- Tod-Autojoined has changed nick to TodPunk. 01:47:42 -!- MDude has joined. 02:28:20 -!- zzo38 has joined. 02:41:44 -!- Patashu has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:44:36 -!- Patashu has joined. 02:45:17 -!- itidus22 has changed nick to itidus21. 02:53:21 hello zzo38 02:55:33 quintopia: Hello. Any question/comment/complaint? 02:56:13 nope just saying hello 02:56:16 OK 02:56:25 also in the topic what is "the other idea" 02:57:13 quintopia: http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/dnd/recording/level20_idea.txt 02:58:24 kmc: There are all sorts of other complications like running code in the mapped pages. 02:59:28 That is what "the other idea" is that I was refering to 02:59:29 zzo38: i like the "no monsters in the library" one 02:59:58 is there an esolang that requires nested escaping to do anything useful? 03:00:07 quintopia: Well, it is based on something in the computer game "Super ASCII MZX Town", which contains a lot of silly stuff. 03:00:48 The word "tutorial" annoys me more and more these days. 03:00:57 calamari: Yes I think there is, but I forget what it is called 03:00:57 Probably mostly for vaguely conalish reasons. 03:01:26 I was just working on a shell script escaping backticks and quotes (where the amount of escaping was different for each) and thought .. wow this would make for a great esolang 03:01:49 calamari: /// has a lot of escaping 03:02:10 zzo38: i don't care if you copy things. it's a good challenge. 03:03:01 quintopia: It is a computer game I made myself, as it turns out. If the monsters needs the book you can go in the library and get it for them, is how this computer game works. 03:04:03 zzo38: oh i was thinking that you were putting it a dnd game, where the party is chased by monsters and they lock themselves inside a library, but if any monster gets end the game ends and everybody dies 03:04:07 *gets in 03:05:21 quintopia: I did have the idea for the D&D game; but I wrote "apparently" and no this isn't the scenario I was thinking of (the party in this D&D game consist of some monster characters too) 03:05:38 when did olsner.se go down? 03:05:54 And just because someone wrote that on a sign does not make it true anyways 03:07:00 zzo38: well, it could be that the universe ends only if a monster touches the book-of-power. and even then only if a d20 comes up 9 or less. 03:07:11 quintopia: thanks, that's probably close enough 03:08:15 quintopia: That is one way to do what I wrote; not what I had in mind but of course you can make up scenarios in D&D game using my ideas, with various modifications. In Super ASCII MZX Town, the librarian just put that on the sign because they didn't want monsters in their library. But problem is, the sign is *inside* the library. 03:09:56 zzo38: i think you should do it one of these exciting ways. not just silly. 03:11:25 quintopia: Your ways do work. And, yes, it could be possible that they wrote that on the sign even though it is only sometimes the case! And some player characters can be monster characters anyways, but some isn't so it works 03:11:42 But I am not going to write any additional details on that note because I am not the referee 03:12:36 -!- MDude has changed nick to MSleep. 03:13:50 who is the referee? 03:14:04 Someone else! 03:14:24 Usually called the GM or Dungeons Master; "referee" is an uncommon term but I use it 03:17:03 -!- Mathnerd314 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 03:19:00 -!- SingingBoyo has joined. 03:20:31 what is the purpose of that document zzo38? 03:20:34 why did you write it? 03:23:31 quintopia: Just some ideas I had for possible situation in Dungeons&Dragons game 03:23:58 zzo38: oh i thought you were making ideas for yourself to use in your own games 03:24:16 If I have my own game then yes I might use the idea too 03:24:47 (Just so you know, Isolde and Kjugobe are names of two of the player characters in a game I am in; of course if use in other game we could change them) 03:25:29 And, the dungeons master does like this list! And in case they run out of idea might pick one I don't know which one is picked, and with some other things too not specified so that we don't know what exactly happened 03:28:53 What would make it interesting is such situations as these interwoven with other things too. 03:36:44 -!- Case2 has joined. 03:38:34 -!- Case1 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 03:41:53 I have made generalize of function in Haskell, such as: tail :: MonadLogic m => m x -> m x; (!!) :: (Copeanoid i, Foldable t) => t x -> i -> x; length :: (Peanoid i, Foldable t) => t x -> i; filter :: MonadPlus m => (x -> Bool) -> m x -> m x; iterate :: Alternative f => (x -> x) -> x -> f x; 03:42:33 Is it good or is there other way, or other generalize too? 03:47:27 I could have this: unfoldTree :: Functor f => (b -> (a, f b)) -> b -> Cofree f a; 04:31:31 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 04:31:32 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 04:31:32 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 04:31:50 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 04:33:39 zzo38: the word you should use there is "generalization"...if you care 04:39:29 -!- SingingBoyo has quit (Quit: Hard work pays off in the future, laziness pays off now). 04:42:10 -!- Tod-Autojoined has joined. 04:42:43 I read that as "I have made a generalisation of Haskell" at first 04:43:05 Which doesn't seem like an uncommon task 04:43:12 -!- TodPunk has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:43:18 -!- Tod-Autojoined has changed nick to TodPunk. 05:25:48 -!- nortti has joined. 05:31:18 -!- Patashu has quit (Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 , Skype: patashu0 .). 05:31:31 -!- Patashu has joined. 05:46:15 -!- Case2 has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 06:01:40 -!- asiekierka has joined. 06:15:55 -!- itidus20 has joined. 06:18:01 -!- NSQX has joined. 06:18:08 !bf_txtgen Brainfuck 06:18:13 106 +++++++++++[>++++++>++++++++++>+++++++++>+<<<<-]>.>++++.>--.++++++++.+++++.--------.<+++.>---.++++++++.>-. [147] 06:18:38 -!- NSQX has quit (Client Quit). 06:19:11 -!- NSQX has joined. 06:19:24 !bf_txtgen brainfuck 06:19:26 100 ++++++++++++++[>+++++++>++++++++>+><<<<-]>.>++.<-.++++++++.+++++.--------.>+++.<---.++++++++.>>----. [149] 06:19:42 -!- NSQX has quit (Client Quit). 06:20:00 -!- itidus21 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 06:48:42 -!- nortti has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.1 [Firefox 11.0/20120312181643]). 07:46:45 -!- NSQX has joined. 07:47:46 Our sub-lime wiki has been out of order for the last four days. What are you waiting for before you start editing again? 07:49:52 What are you all doing instead of editing this wiki and creating new esoteric programming languages? 07:50:57 NSQX, it's not out of order. 07:51:43 Or... what do you mean by out of order 07:52:13 quality over quantity, NSQX 07:52:24 I'll let you ponder on that 07:52:54 Actually, http://namelesswiki.com/ has been out of order for longer. There has been no real activity on http://namelesswiki.com/ for almost a month and http://namelesswiki.com/wiki/Special:RecentChanges has been filled with spamming of [[Talk:Denial of Service Attack]] since 27th March 2012. However, what if that could happen to our sub-lime wiki? 07:53:24 it already has 07:53:52 -!- zzo38 has left. 07:53:58 -!- zzo38 has joined. 07:54:39 NSQX, I would not use that wiki for security advice. 07:55:17 Anyway, what are you all doing instead of thinking of new esoteric programming languages? 07:55:28 NSQX: Everything 07:55:35 and yet nothing 07:55:39 Yes. 07:55:52 http://www.namelesswiki.com/wiki/SQL_Injection 07:56:05 zzo38: Everything instead of thinking of new esoteric programming languages or helping with the List of ideas? 07:56:07 The Prevention section suggests filtering dangerous characters. 07:56:19 There is no mention of parameterized queries of any sort. 07:56:20 zzo38: Everything except thinking of new esoteric programming languages or helping with the List of ideas? 07:57:02 NSQX: No, everything regardless. Just because we did not post it does not necessarily mean we did not think of it yet! 07:57:04 There is a not bad, yet utterly irrelevant to the page, suggestion of not storing plaintext passwords 07:58:58 NSQX, why do you look at nameless wiki? 08:00:29 Actually, the first time I went to the Nameless Wiki is when I went to the "Nameless language at Nameless Wiki" link on http://esolangs.org/wiki/Nameless_language 08:01:40 brainfuck derivative? 08:02:14 If you think about it, every language is, like, a BF derivative, man. 08:02:27 hi 08:02:58 monqy: I thought you swore off hi forever. 08:03:07 no that's elliott 08:03:15 maybe elliotts too 08:03:21 but I'm neither elliott not elliotts 08:03:23 I'm monqy 08:03:28 elliotts a confusing one 08:03:31 hi monqy 08:03:44 hi 08:03:51 do you like peter and the wolf 08:03:54 what's that 08:03:57 saying hi after greeted is irresistable 08:03:58 D: 08:04:00 RRRRRRRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA 08:04:04 did i scare you 08:04:05 irresistible 08:04:51 monqy: E.g. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6XKlEfvP-lo 08:05:32 never heard of it 08:06:00 "Obviousness, it seems, eludes some people. Idiots mostly, including you. IDIOT!!!!" 08:06:03 - youtube comment 08:06:06 - youtube 08:06:09 - hi 08:06:16 a poem 08:06:50 monqy: I don't know whether you've heard of it, but have you heard it? 08:06:56 no 08:07:03 You should hear it. 08:07:43 monqy and the wolf 08:07:46 hi monqy, wolf 08:07:55 whos wolf 08:08:27 elliott :( 08:08:45 :( 08:08:48 Oh, no, elliott will read the logs and hate me when he gets back online. 08:09:21 maybe he won't read the logs 08:09:25 monqy: If saying hi after being greeted is irresistible, is it irresistible to respond with hi? 08:09:29 hi 08:09:36 hello 08:09:42 ! 08:09:57 im going to kick this habit !!! 08:10:06 it's like drugs, and I'm kicking it 08:10:11 do you kick drugs 08:10:18 what else would I do with drugs 08:10:23 But anyway, elliott will read the logs and think about " Our sub-lime wiki has been out of order for the last four days. What are you waiting for before you start editing again?" and further into that conversation. 08:10:33 monqy: hi 08:10:48 they really added a lot of crap in C++11 08:10:53 NSQX: if he doesn't, I'll make him. it is an important concern and he should think aboutit 08:11:02 shachaf: salutations 08:11:13 somewhat torn between wanting to use new shiny features and wanting to nuke-from-orbit all traces of C++ I know 08:11:37 Okay, monqy, 08:11:38 -!- NSQX has quit (Quit: leaving). 08:11:39 monqy: Ahoy! 08:11:47 hey 08:11:52 Greetings. 08:11:56 hye 08:12:05 That's dangerously close to "hi". 08:12:07 high monqy 08:12:24 high shachaf 08:13:37 01:13 < mm_freak> the docs state that hamlet is inspired by haml 08:13:38 Maybe Hamlet was inspired by Shakespeare. 08:13:40 hi shakespeare 08:13:59 is shakespeare here 08:14:06 hello 08:14:09 good morning, shakespeare 08:14:16 good evening, itidus20 08:14:20 good afternoon, shachaf 08:14:33 good day, everyone 08:14:50 weird 08:14:58 こんにちは　monqy 08:14:59 just kidding 08:15:06 good job so far in kicking the habit 08:15:10 the hibit 08:15:13 thank you 08:16:54 היי שחף 08:17:34 היי מונקי 08:17:52 What did I just type. :-( 08:17:58 :( 08:18:03 Google Translate says it's "Monkey". 08:18:12 Google translate = Wrong translate. 08:18:20 It says monqy 08:19:19 בסדר 08:19:48 Does that say OK? 08:19:58 כן 08:20:05 Does that say No? 08:20:12 לא 08:20:15 -!- Taneb has joined. 08:20:21 Does that say No? 08:20:21 Hello! 08:20:21 Taneb: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 08:20:29 כן 08:20:35 hi monqy 08:20:45 Taneb: greetings 08:20:48 shachaf: salutations 08:20:57 Welcoming! 08:21:04 shachaf: try asking a yes/no question that you know the answer to 08:21:14 itidus20: I know the answers to all of them. 08:21:26 oh 08:22:42 -!- Taneb has quit (Client Quit). 08:32:28 -!- Taneb has joined. 08:39:40 -!- Case1 has joined. 08:43:17 -!- asiekierka has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:50:24 -!- Case1 has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 08:55:43 -!- cheater has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 08:55:50 http://me.veekun.com/blog/2012/04/09/php-a-fractal-of-bad-design/ http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Rasmus_Lerdorf http://www.exploit-db.com/exploits/18665/ 08:56:31 Oooh! 08:56:38 Is Finnair a Finnish airline? 08:57:25 -!- asiekierka has joined. 08:58:03 yeah 08:58:30 I saw a Finnair plane today 08:59:39 In a smoking rubble? 09:00:16 Close. 09:00:19 Heathrow Airport 09:00:28 I actually hate programming, but I love solving problems. I really don't like programming. There are people who actually like programming. I don't understand why they like programming. I do care about memory leaks but I still don't find programming enjoyable. 09:00:48 ...you're in a programming channel 09:00:58 i wrote php 09:01:12 :-j 09:01:23 oops.. i mean a haha smiley 09:01:42 it's from ion's link http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Rasmus_Lerdorf 09:01:54 -!- derdon has joined. 09:01:54 Aaah 09:01:59 I'm still on the first link 09:02:39 "Facebook and Wikipedia... could be written in Brainfuck" 09:03:11 YOU NEVER KNOW 09:03:15 i know uh the quotes take on different meanings than if i said them since the person who said it is a programming celebrity 09:04:11 and you're more like a town drunk 09:04:21 ion, that is a great blog article 09:05:13 kmc: I noticed mosh. Seems very useful. And you seem to be one of the authors. :-) 09:05:20 yeah 09:05:38 thanks :) 09:05:39 we're in #mosh if you want to chat with KeithW, who did most of the design and coding 09:05:47 i've mainly done security auditing and misc bugfixes 09:06:28 About the only good think I can think of of PHP is that most web servers seem to have it built in 09:08:56 -!- cheater has joined. 09:09:16 i mean, it has allowed a lot of casual/amateur programmers to produce things which are useful 09:09:28 that is *a* redeeming quality 09:09:39 probably not enough to consider PHP a net social good 09:09:52 It's the default 09:09:53 it certainly could have that redeeming quality and still be way the hell better as a language 09:10:09 It's like Internet Explorer 09:17:24 'could be written in Brainfuck' 09:17:31 if brainfuck had meaningful io mechanisms sure 09:18:15 hmm 09:18:28 brainfuck web server? 09:18:45 itidus20, you're the only one who can do this. 09:18:48 I believe in you. 09:20:39 there's that thing https://github.com/ChickenProp/sysfuck 09:22:05 the first app would be like you input an id number followed by a space into the brainfuck interpreter.. and it would output the corresponding record in html format, or an error message if the record can't be found 09:22:30 yes, syscall should be enough 09:25:55 * itidus20 backs away slowly. 09:26:46 put it this way: 09:26:47 without syscalls 09:26:51 brainfuck can't even read to/write from files 09:27:18 (or at least, not without a different non-brainfuck program redirecting its input/output?) 09:27:20 err -? 09:27:50 im backing away slowly because i have no plans of writing any software in brainfuck 09:28:22 Me neither 09:37:38 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 09:38:54 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 09:43:07 -!- epoch_qwert has quit (Quit: sleep(60*60*8)). 09:43:19 -!- asiekierka has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:49:42 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 09:50:28 -!- asiekierka has joined. 09:56:50 -!- Taneb has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 10:01:02 -!- calamari has quit (Quit: Leaving). 10:06:07 -!- asiekierka has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:13:10 -!- asiekierka has joined. 10:15:18 -!- Taneb has joined. 10:19:55 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 10:19:56 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:31:20 -!- azaq23 has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 10:34:13 "OS X Terminal.app applies circumflex to part of escape sequence, then crashes." 10:46:14 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 10:48:56 -!- myndzi\ has joined. 10:52:20 -!- Taneb has joined. 10:53:16 -!- myndzi has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 10:59:46 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 11:04:02 -!- asiekierka has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:09:00 -!- asiekierka has joined. 11:11:05 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 11:27:34 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Quit: brb). 11:27:53 -!- MoALTz has joined. 11:36:57 -!- derdon has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:49:08 -!- NSQX has joined. 11:52:31 -!- NSQX has left (""elliott is not here""). 11:53:19 -!- NSQX has joined. 11:53:31 -!- NSQX has left ("elliott is not here"). 11:54:09 -!- NSQX has joined. 11:54:14 -!- NSQX has left ("Oerjan?"). 11:55:55 -!- NSQX has joined. 11:55:58 * NSQX thinks there is no quality anymore 11:56:08 -!- NSQX has left. 12:32:37 elliott, oerjan: NSQX is just not happy with you two ;) 12:38:13 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 11.0/20120312181643]). 12:51:36 -!- asiekierka has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:57:41 -!- Patashu has quit (Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 , Skype: patashu0 .). 13:06:54 -!- Taneb has joined. 13:07:12 Hello 13:11:53 -!- Ngevd has joined. 13:12:43 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 13:12:47 -!- Ngevd has changed nick to Taneb. 13:23:28 kmc: I take it much attention has been paid to things like never using the same block key more than once and preventing replay attacks? 13:48:15 -!- Taneb has changed nick to Ngevd. 13:50:16 kmc: How about leaking information in the timing of the packets? IIRC someone was able to correlate the timing information in an audio recording of typing to what keys were pressed. I suppose ssh doesn’t do anything about that either. 13:51:04 -!- FireFly has joined. 13:54:41 -!- asiekierka_ has joined. 14:01:09 -!- Ngevd has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:01:13 -!- Taneb has joined. 14:01:42 -!- Taneb has changed nick to Ngevd. 14:08:15 -!- Ngevd has changed nick to Ngevd|VeryTiredS. 14:08:25 -!- Ngevd|VeryTiredS has changed nick to Ngevd|VeryTired. 14:18:21 ion, the block-cipher key is simply pulled from /dev/urandom by mosh-server at session start 14:18:40 we're using OCB3, an integrated authenticated-encryption block cipher mode for AES 14:19:02 which prevents tampering and replay attacks if used correctly (there is a mathematical proof of this) 14:19:12 An implementation by someone else i take it? 14:19:36 yes, it's the reference implementation by Ted Krovetz 14:19:41 alright 14:19:41 https://github.com/keithw/mosh/blob/master/src/crypto/ocb.cc 14:20:01 OCB is not too widely used though, so I am a bit worried 14:20:35 i do think it's funny that "implemented by someone else" makes you feel better regardless of who that is ;) 14:21:11 regarding "used correctly", a primary concern is that one must never use the same (key, nonce) pair more than once 14:21:37 the nonce is a 63-bit counter initialized to zero at session start and incremented for each message sent 14:21:48 the last bit distinguishes the two directions of communication 14:21:49 Well, i was thinking in the lines of a popular, reviewed-by-many implementation by someone else. :-) 14:22:18 yeah, I don't think ocb.c is that popular or well-reviewed 14:22:51 otoh, OCB provides authentication and encryption in one go, whereas if we combined a simple block cipher mode like CTR with a separate HMAC, there are arguably more places to screw up 14:23:05 (we can chat in #mosh also) 14:23:10 aye 14:28:21 -!- Ngevd has joined. 14:28:32 -!- Ngevd has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:28:57 -!- Ngevd|VeryTired has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:34:12 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:47:29 -!- asiekierka_ has changed nick to asiekierka. 14:49:06 -!- NSQX has joined. 14:49:54 http://esolangs.org/wiki/BrainFunge2 and it seems like I was the only one who created a new esoteric programming language today. What's up with the rest of the community recently? 14:51:43 !bf2 ''!dlroW olleH''"("X'>)" 14:57:17 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 15:07:42 -!- augur has joined. 15:08:48 http://esolangs.org/wiki/BrainFunge2 and it seems like I was the only one who created a new esoteric programming language today. What's up with the rest of the community recently? 15:08:52 !bf2 ''!dlroW olleH''"("X'>)" 15:10:59 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 15:11:19 http://esolangs.org/wiki/BrainFunge2 and it seems like I was the only one who created a new esoteric programming language today. What's up with the rest of the community recently? 15:11:23 http://esolangs.org/wiki/BrainFunge2 and it seems like I was the only one who created a new esoteric programming language today. What's up with the rest of the community recently? 15:11:27 !bf2 ''!dlroW olleH''"("X'>)" 15:11:30 !bf2 ''!dlroW olleH''"("X'>)" 15:11:53 although i'm not part of the esolang community and have never done anything eso-langy.. i just want you to know i'm reading your posts :-D 15:12:26 and the brainfunge2 wiki page looks nicely formatted 15:18:14 reading the brainfunge2 page got me thinking though just now 15:27:26 -!- NSQX has quit (Quit: leaving). 15:34:08 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 15:37:45 -!- asiekierka has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:39:51 -!- NSQX has joined. 15:41:10 -!- atrapado has joined. 15:43:03 KingOfKarlsruhe: Don't just join and say nothing. Say something or edit our sub-lime wiki, which has had few edits recently, at http://esolangs.org/ 15:44:24 NSQX: hehhee ok ^^ 15:44:45 KingOfKarlsruhe: Read the most recent log of #esoteric ( http://codu.org/logs/log/_esoteric/2012-04-10 ) or our sub-lime wiki's recent changes ( http://esolangs.org/wiki/Special:RecentChanges ) if you are unsure what to say. 15:45:03 -!- MSleep has changed nick to MDude. 15:45:11 -!- NSQX has quit (Quit: leaving). 15:47:21 -!- pikhq has joined. 15:47:43 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 15:49:04 -!- NSQX has joined. 15:50:09 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Esolang:Featured_languages has not been updated for at least two weeks now. 15:50:39 The featured language has remained "///" for too long. 15:51:31 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 11.0/20120312181643]). 15:51:49 -!- ais523 has joined. 15:52:44 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Esolang:Featured_languages has not been updated for at least two weeks now. 15:52:47 The featured language has remained "///" for too long. 15:52:56 What are the administrators waiting for? 15:53:01 ais523? 15:53:10 NSQX: we're only changing it once a month or so 15:53:30 there isn't enough of a supply of languages to change it more often than that, and it can often take around a month to do interesting things with an esolang 15:54:44 Anyway, does anyone think http://esolangs.org/wiki/BrainFunge2 is good enough to be featured (except for one thing that does not match the criteria: implementation is possible but this language is not implemented)? 15:56:12 no, it isn't interesting 15:56:35 there are far too many 2D imperative languages 15:56:50 (far too many 1D imperative languages too, btw) 16:00:21 Well, it's not like being 2D and imperative disqualifies it, it merely doesn't qualify it. 16:01:24 -!- asiekierka has joined. 16:01:31 -!- elliott__ has joined. 16:06:16 00:36:52: plenty of people appreciate FP and yet are annoyed by the people who think that incorporating crazy FP concepts is the only criterion for language goodness 16:06:17 elliott__: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 16:06:29 Sometimes I get the feeling everything kmc says is a jab at me :P 16:06:39 YES IT'S ALL ABOUT YOU 16:06:49 i spend all day plotting my next jab at elliott__ 16:07:01 srsly I did not have anyone in mind when I said that 16:08:33 maybe i should switch to a terminal that supports blurry fonts 16:11:27 Wut, elliott FUCKING UNDERSCORE UNDERSCORE has messages? Or does lambdabot not distinguish? 16:11:45 @messages 16:11:45 ais523 said 1m 22d 23h 13m 26s ago: I bet you haven't used this nick for a while :) 16:11:50 elliott__: Your new full name is now Elliott Fucking Underscore-Underscore, by the way. 16:11:55 i'm so popular, all my nicks get messagse 16:11:58 *es 16:12:02 RocketJSquirrel: I messaged elliott-double-underscore quite a while ago just to see if the message would ever be received 16:12:08 lol 16:12:54 ais523: you misspelled my name! 16:13:07 or does the "double" stand for "fucking underscore" 16:18:31 hmm, a good esolang can take weeks or months to make 16:18:46 e.g. Underload took months, and Feather is probably going to take years 16:20:25 .part 16:20:27 -!- NSQX has left. 16:20:31 -!- NSQX has joined. 16:21:50 NSQX: you can use /cycle to part and rejoin quickly 16:21:50 elliott__: You have 3 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. 16:22:36 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 16:22:56 -!- NSQX has left. 16:22:57 -!- NSQX has joined. 16:24:31 NSQX: I don't have something! 16:24:57 -!- augur has joined. 16:26:57 kmc: how old is mosh in debian testing? 16:28:50 NSQX: I don't have something! 16:29:16 http://packages.debian.org/wheezy/mosh says 1.1 16:29:19 here's a changelog: https://github.com/keithw/mosh/blob/master/ChangeLog 16:29:58 thanks; looks like * Fixes bug causing occasional missing/extra wraparound copy-and-paste. 16:29:58 is the only thiing I might be missing out on 16:30:22 are there any advantages to mosh if my connection to the server has such low latency that I can't distinguish it from a local shell? 16:30:32 (I keep accidentally typing commands into ssh rather than a local terminal) 16:30:45 I read the web page 16:30:53 I guess the hieroglyphics thing counts 16:30:56 not too bothered about that though 16:32:32 you could have a low latency connection with high packet loss, but it sounds like you don't 16:32:41 there is also the roaming / suspend thing 16:32:54 and the ^C spew thing 16:33:00 -!- NSQX has left ("NSQX has parted ("NSQX has parted ("NSQX has parted ("Error: Connection destroyed by peer")")")"). 16:33:01 "Unlike SSH, mosh's UDP-based protocol handles packet loss gracefully, and sets the frame rate based on network conditions. Mosh doesn't fill up network buffers, so Control-C always works to halt a runaway process." 16:33:34 but yeah, the main advantage is that Mosh works better on a) bad connections, and b) changing between connections 16:33:43 Ohhh N-Squax. 16:33:44 Why you gotta. 16:33:47 or suspending your laptop 16:33:52 kmc: oh, it has dtach built in? 16:33:55 (for the whole session) 16:34:03 -!- Mathnerd314 has joined. 16:34:11 the ^C spew thing annoys me, but I get problems with that locally, too 16:34:19 so I'm not sure it's the same thing(?) 16:34:22 "With Mosh, you can put your laptop to sleep and wake it up later, keeping your connection intact. If your Internet connection drops, Mosh will warn you — but the connection resumes when network service comes back." 16:34:32 there were a lot of words on the page ok :( 16:34:48 and i'm lazy so i quote them instead of explaining ;P 16:34:56 is there a way to explicitly suspend it and restart mosh later? 16:34:59 i.e. have it save its state 16:35:01 it's not really the same as screen/tmux detach (you can of course use mosh together with screen/tmux) 16:35:07 no, use screen/tmux for that 16:35:22 alright 16:35:24 (I use dtach :p) 16:35:32 i don't know that one, but ok 16:36:17 it just does detaching rather than tiling 16:36:37 this website triggers that annoying font problem :( 16:36:48 where text overlaps with other text but fixes itself if I change the font size up and down again 16:37:28 mosh doesn't support detaching and reattaching sessions at all 16:37:54 but it supports a) arbitrarily long periods of total packet loss, and b) client suddenly has a different IP 16:38:03 kmc: those are the same thing! 16:38:22 not really 16:38:33 modulo local state, which can be stored on disk (I don't care about reattaching from another machine 16:38:34 ) 16:38:48 heh, the AUR package is maintained by the trivium author 16:39:01 if you have a mosh-client / mosh-server pair, and the client dies uncleanly (say because the machine dies) 16:39:06 there is no way to reattach to that mosh-server 16:39:16 not inconceivable we'd add one 16:39:26 oh, I don't care about unclean client dying either 16:39:29 ok 16:39:42 my use for re-attaching is just starting a long-running process on the server and being able to check on it without having to keep a terminal open 16:40:09 i think mosh by itself won't do that for you 16:40:26 Buy a Kinect and create the world's first interpretive dance programming language. 16:40:47 kmc: yeah, but it could if it could store its local state and reload it later (which of course might be non-trivial) 16:40:48 if you close the local terminal running mosh-client, it will shut down the client and therefore the whole session 16:40:53 right 16:42:24 Targets (2): boost-libs-1.49.0-1.1 boost-1.49.0-1.1 16:42:24 Total Download Size: 9.30 MiB 16:42:24 Total Installed Size: 149.80 MiB 16:42:26 gotta love boost 16:42:44 hehe 16:42:49 we're only using a small amount of boost 16:42:54 in fact i have a patch which removes it entirely 16:43:06 kmc: my understanding is that you're recommended to distrbute the parts of boost you use with your source 16:43:08 (seriously) 16:43:16 which avoids that kind of dependency :P 16:44:28 maybe 16:44:30 i don't wanna 16:45:14 yay, mosh works 16:45:23 it clears the screen as soon as i start a connection :( 16:45:48 yes 16:45:56 you do not like this behavior? 16:46:03 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 16:46:16 nope, though probably only because I'm used to ssh not doing that 16:46:30 -!- TodPunk has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 16:46:51 a good rule of thumb is to ignore all complaints i make for the first two days 16:47:37 is the fact that less seems to scroll through large amounts of text faster placebo? 16:48:31 whoa, less uses bold in mosh 16:48:33 erm 16:48:34 by less i mean top 16:49:19 elliott__: less scrolls through large amounts of text faster per line than small amounts of text 16:49:27 because it doesn't have to redraw the screen every line 16:50:13 ais523: I was using ^D/^U, so it's not that 16:50:20 but it definitely feels like it's lagging less than ssh doing that 16:50:48