←2012-04-11 2012-04-12 2012-04-13→ ↑2012 ↑all
00:00:05 <zzo38> I have printed business cards for someone using TeX, a few times.
00:01:58 <shachaf> Have you printed Magic: The Gathering cards using TeX?
00:02:32 <zzo38> shachaf: No, I haven't done so. I do not even have the fonts for the mana symbols and that stuff
00:02:45 <elliott> shachaf: No, that's TeXnicard.
00:03:10 <shachaf> TeXnicolor
00:03:36 <zzo38> (Which means I cannot do so by TeXnicard either; but if someone make GF fonts for the mana symbols then it will work)
00:03:46 <elliott> oerjan: hands off
00:04:12 <zzo38> (METAFONT is preferable since it is scalable; GF is not scalable)
00:04:48 <oerjan> hands off wat
00:05:02 <elliott> EGL
00:05:11 <elliott> You can add it to the language list though
00:05:27 * oerjan isn't even browsing esolang at the moment
00:05:56 <monqy> http://esolangs.org/wiki/EGL
00:06:07 <monqy> looks like it's in need of some hands
00:09:26 <shachaf> hi monqy
00:09:47 <elliott> no
00:10:05 <shachaf> monqy: do you what elliott told me today monqy
00:10:14 <shachaf> 14:43 <elliott> hi
00:10:43 <shachaf> elliott doesn't want you to quit hi because it's bad for you
00:10:48 <shachaf> he just wants all the hi for himself
00:10:55 <elliott> im struggling too
00:12:08 <oerjan> hi
00:12:15 <zzo38> Do LLVM programs require the standard C library to run?
00:12:36 <shachaf> I should hope not.
00:12:55 <elliott> http://esolangs.org/wiki/EGL tada
00:13:41 <elliott> <kmc> this C++03 faux-functional stuff is really awful
00:13:44 <elliott> kmc: FEW TOO MANY WORDS THERE EH EH
00:14:46 <shachaf> HA, HA!
00:19:44 <elliott> Apparently esolangs.org has 1,406 incoming links from animepaper.net.
00:19:50 <elliott> Thanks... Google?
00:20:08 <MDude> I will go see what that is.
00:20:56 <oerjan> maybe that's a japanese center for malbolge programming
00:21:11 <MDude> Aw, it doesn't seem to sell anime-decorated stationary or toilet paper.
00:21:33 <elliott> Finally. Anime-decorated toilet paper.
00:21:44 <elliott> The one thing I have been waiting for my entire life!
00:22:10 <MDude> If you spin the roll fast enough, it's like a flip book.
00:22:23 <elliott> Yesss
00:25:20 <elliott> [[
00:25:20 <elliott> I've been asking a few questions about concurrency in Haskell, particular TVar, and I've had concerns about livelock with TVar.
00:25:20 <elliott> Instead, I've proposed this solution.
00:25:21 <elliott> (1) Wrap all shared data in the program in one data structure, and wrap that in an IORef. (2) Simply do any changes using atomicModifyIORef.
00:25:21 <elliott> ]]
00:25:28 <elliott> kmc: Why didn't the smart Haskell people think of that before?
00:25:47 <kmc> :3
00:25:54 <elliott> I am not able rightly to apprehend etc.
00:26:26 <kmc> it's not actually a bad idea, dependint on your workload
00:26:41 <oerjan> elliott: garbage in, babbage out
00:26:59 <kmc> i remember Simon Marlow benchmarked a bunch of different concurrent datastructures for the IO manager
00:27:06 <kmc> and the one that did best was IORef + persistent data structure
00:27:23 <kmc> i guess I can't tell without context whether they think this should replace all STM ever
00:27:41 <kmc> also you can't make it strict
00:27:47 <elliott> kmc: Yes, but that would correspond to one IORef for each "structure".
00:27:52 <elliott> Not one IORef with your ENTIRE PROGRAM STATE.
00:27:59 <kmc> well, if you want STM-like atomicity...
00:28:39 <oerjan> elliott: so he's basically reinvented the python GIL (sp?)
00:28:49 <elliott> kmc: At least it won't livelock!
00:28:51 <elliott> oerjan: Yep XD
00:29:00 <kmc> atomicModifyIORef is lockless
00:29:18 <elliott> Still forces serialisation
00:29:20 <kmc> sure
00:29:31 <kmc> i mean saying it "reinvents the GIL" is not really fair
00:29:40 <kmc> but maybe fair enough for our "making fun of people on stackoverflow" mode
00:30:42 <shachaf> Ha! Those people on the stack overflow!
00:30:48 <shachaf> @quote kmc stack.overflow
00:30:48 <lambdabot> No quotes match. There are some things that I just don't know.
00:30:52 <elliott> @quote kmc stackoverflow
00:30:52 <lambdabot> No quotes match. Are you on drugs?
00:30:54 <elliott> @quote kmc overflow
00:30:54 <lambdabot> No quotes match. And you call yourself a Rocket Scientist!
00:30:55 <elliott> @quote kmc stack
00:30:55 <lambdabot> No quotes match. My brain just exploded
00:30:56 <elliott> @quote kmc o
00:30:56 <lambdabot> kmc says: on December 21, 2012 A.D., Jesus Christ himself will return to Earth and make the final commit on GHC
00:31:03 <elliott> That's a terrible quote.
00:31:04 <shachaf> I think lambdabot's database got wiped. :-(
00:31:07 <elliott> @forget kmc on December 21, 2012 A.D., Jesus Christ himself will return to Earth and make the final commit on GHC
00:31:07 <lambdabot> Done.
00:31:29 <oerjan> shachaf: nah it's probably just elliott
00:31:48 <shachaf> oerjan: No, I think it did.
00:31:57 <shachaf> ALl my good quotes got wiped and now lambdabot only has bad quotes by me. :-(
00:32:04 <kmc> :(
00:32:33 <zzo38> shachaf: Then retype the good one
00:33:00 <shachaf> I had some good quotes, and some other quotes too that were written by me (and some other people too)
00:33:12 <shachaf> elliott: I'm no good at that.
00:33:14 <oerjan> @quote shachaf
00:33:14 <lambdabot> shachaf says: <djahandarie> Group projects are stupid <shachaf> Try a semigroup project sometime. You need to lose your identity.
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00:41:07 <zzo38> Is it permitted to take a shorthand writing paper into a live theatre or movie theatre?
00:41:40 <elliott> no
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00:47:02 <ion> I want to film film from back of cinema.
00:50:41 <elliott> i'm film
00:55:07 <ion> http://youtu.be/67p4QihDO9c
00:55:44 <ion> Warning: don’t begin clicking on other Fonejacker clips in the related videos. You’ll lose the whole night.
00:56:08 <elliott> "This video contains content from Base79 TV (Base79/2) and Channel 4, one or more of whom have blocked it in your country on copyright grounds."
00:58:01 <ion> ಠ_ಠ and they’ve not blocked it in Finland?
00:58:29 <elliott> ion: IIRC there's good reason it's usually blocked in the country of origin and nowhere else.
00:58:39 <elliott> I forget what that reason is, though.
01:00:16 <ion> How about this copy? http://youtu.be/8No35aomeok
01:09:15 <elliott> Same.
01:09:45 <ion> How about this copy? http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2j5vx_fonejacker-you-want-buy-dvd_fun
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01:13:32 <elliott> That works.
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01:52:57 <elliott> kmc: If you enjoyed our product "Believing everything you read on Hacker News", why not try "Believing everything you read in the Weekly World News"?
01:58:35 <elliott> Man, reading this HN thread, I think the "nobody is ever good enough to write crypto ever and unless you're using crypto code handed down by God himself on stone tablets, you are already hacked" crap has done more overall harm than incompetent crypto istelf.
01:58:36 <elliott> *itself
01:59:43 <elliott> "What I find especially interesting is how they explicitly decided to design the site like a startup's. I always think it's cool when philanthropy learns from commercial enterprises."
01:59:44 <elliott> oh wow
02:01:03 <elliott> "Seems pretty clear they’re breaking with the crappy, poorly designed webpages open source software—especially anything having to do with networking or security—often have.
02:01:03 <elliott> These guys understand: how something is presented matters too; not just how well the code works."
02:01:12 <elliott> i heard kmc reference this but i had no idea
02:01:17 <kmc> yeah
02:01:32 <kmc> thank god our hipster startup aesthetic has finally reached those tragically un-cool academics
02:01:38 <kmc> I don't think they realize that we're deliberately making fun of them
02:01:52 <elliott> I really hate twitter bootstrap because I can tell without fail whenever anything is using it
02:01:56 <elliott> it's like Blueprint was a few years ago
02:02:07 <kmc> haha
02:03:04 <zzo38> In the idle time for WHOIS, what things are counted? For example, do NOTICE messages count?
02:04:00 <zzo38> myndzi sent me a NOTICE message, and it seem not count.
02:04:15 <elliott> kmc: is there a way to artificially slow my connection down, i wanna see mosh's prediction :'(
02:04:30 <myndzi> how about this
02:04:43 <myndzi> nope, and whois neither
02:04:52 <kmc> elliott, run mosh-server in valgrind
02:05:00 <zzo38> myndzi: That didn't count either; the idle time increased
02:05:15 <elliott> kmc: you think I'm installing valgrind on solidity?
02:05:15 <kmc> also http://www.linuxfoundation.org/collaborate/workgroups/networking/netem
02:05:21 <elliott> wait
02:05:24 <elliott> maybe I can bounce the connection a bit
02:05:29 <elliott> ssh solidity ssh dinky ssh solidity ssh dinky ssh solidity ssh dinky ssh solidity ssh dinky ssh solidity ssh dinky ...
02:05:33 <kmc> lol
02:05:51 <zzo38> I think it is useful that NOTICE messages don't count
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02:06:13 <myndzi> probably to do with the nature of privmsg/notice
02:06:32 <myndzi> notice is generally for responding to privmsg to avoid loops, at least with ctcp
02:06:38 <myndzi> but i'm sure the server protocol existed before ctcp
02:06:55 <zzo38> elliott: Doesn't the program "ettercap" have a feature to slow down the internet? (I think I read something about this in 2600)
02:07:23 <elliott> I like how http://esolangs.org/wiki/Timeline_of_esoteric_programming_languages stops at 2005
02:07:27 <elliott> (Okay, modulo the future.)
02:07:36 <elliott> ettercap rings a bell
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02:17:19 <elliott> Great, #haskell is explaining monads again.
02:22:07 <Sgeo> channel.me is great
02:23:05 <kmc> elliott, are they also inside-joking?
02:23:29 <kmc> i mean saying "#haskell is explaining monads again" is like saying "it's cool and slightly foggy in san francisco"
02:23:51 <elliott> kmc: No, they weren't. I managed to rescue the poor guy, though :P
02:23:56 <kmc> heh
02:24:09 <elliott> It wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't so quadraphonic.
02:25:15 <elliott> kmc: Anyway, I thought California was hot all the time.
02:25:38 <kmc> i've heard that california is actually a very large state with a range of climates
02:25:54 <elliott> Nonsense.
02:26:20 <elliott> I refuse to devote 50 times the memory space to the USA than I would to any other country.
02:26:28 <elliott> Therefore California is just hot all the time.
02:26:40 <kmc> it is pretty funny to see confused tourists in SF shivering in a t-shirt and shorts
02:26:52 <elliott> heh
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03:06:49 <elliott> HELP!!!!
03:07:06 <kmc> try drugs
03:08:04 <elliott> :(
03:08:10 <elliott> I saw what happened to monqy.
03:09:20 <Sgeo> hi is the worst drug
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03:17:07 <kmc> debugging a C++ type mismatch error using git diff --word-diff on logs
03:18:50 <elliott> lol
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05:41:21 <zzo38> Please tell me what your idea of this type system I have idea of (for Ibtlfmm, not for Haskell; but similar). I will describe some of its features so that you can complain about it properly.
05:41:29 <zzo38> One thing is the kind (*(x) -> {x} -> *) meaning a type taking two parameters, the first is an ordinary type and the second is a value of that type in braces. (For example if the type having this kind is called X then the type (X Int8 {15}) is of kind *)
05:41:50 <zzo38> A more complicated example is (*(x) -> *(Class1 x y => y) -> {Succ y} -> *) (note: where Succ is the equivalent of Haskell's Maybe)
05:43:06 <zzo38> And then there are still the other built-in kinds + @ & and so on, and the user-defined datakinds
05:58:42 <augur> so
05:58:51 <augur> any innovative paradigms invented recently?
05:59:24 <zzo38> augur: I don't know.
06:02:43 <monqy> how recently is recently and how innovative is innovative
06:02:46 <monqy> what is a paradigm
06:03:08 <monqy> and how are they invented
06:05:57 <augur> :|
06:08:07 <olsner> augur: you should invent innovative programming
06:08:48 * itidus20 . o O ( recently is 50 years. innovative is that you could write a whole book about the new paradigm. i'm not sure what a paradigm is, ergo not sure how they are invented )
06:09:59 <itidus20> ^80 years
06:18:31 <shachaf> hi monqy
06:20:53 <monqy> you almost got me
06:21:45 <shachaf> monqy: Don't you want to party?
06:21:56 <shachaf> tonight is party night, and the party is a hi party
06:22:37 <monqy> :(
06:23:24 <shachaf> monqy: You can quit hi any time. But when can you go to a hi party?
06:23:35 <shachaf> That's right, only now.
06:23:43 <shachaf> It's a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity.
06:23:53 <zzo38> When are you going to go to a lo party?
06:24:46 <zzo38> What is your opinion of type system idea I have written?
06:24:49 <monqy> what'ts a hi party jk i know what a i had enough hi party last night
06:25:03 <monqy> qwoops i misdeleted my tetxt
06:25:31 <shachaf> monqy: "enough hi" :(
06:25:41 <shachaf> what would your own mother think of you
06:25:52 <shachaf> she would probably think "hi monqy" and you wouldn't think "hi" back
06:26:23 <monqy> she'd never think "hi monqy"; she dsoesn't know im monqy
06:26:25 <monqy> she does ntknow
06:30:23 <shachaf> monqy woulld she thinkt "hi william"
06:30:28 <shachaf> probalbuluy.
06:31:13 <monqy> probabley
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07:21:52 <Ngevd> Hello!
07:23:26 <kmc> hi Ngevd
07:23:43 <Ngevd> What's happening in THE WORLD OF ESOTERIC PROGRAMMING!?
07:24:45 <shachaf> `welcome Ngevd
07:24:54 <HackEgo> Ngevd: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
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07:31:19 <itidus20> I am in stage 3 of Brainfuck Island stomping on corrupt mushrooms.
07:40:27 <Sgeo> Brainfuck Island?
07:40:49 <shachaf> It's a level in Mario.
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07:49:47 <itidus20> in other words it is Brainfuck Island in name alone..
07:52:09 <kmc> i don't remember them using the word "fuck" in mario
07:53:28 <itidus20> yeah even wario wouldn't say that. i wouldn't put it past waruigi though
07:53:34 <Ngevd> This is a crossover with Call of Duty: Modern Warfare
07:56:41 <kmc> mariofuck
07:57:04 <kmc> obligatory http://plumberplace.files.wordpress.com/2007/01/image_70.jpg
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08:06:12 <qfr> kmc that looks scary
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11:05:20 <Ngevd> Hello
11:05:25 <Ngevd> This seems the best place to ask this
11:05:38 <Ngevd> I'm having some trouble installing a driver on Windows 98
11:07:01 <Ngevd> "The SETUPASSISSTANT.EXE fuke is linked to missing export KERNEL32.DLL:GetUserDefaultUILanguage." is the error I get when I try to run the setup application
11:07:57 <Ngevd> Any advice or referrals?
11:08:34 <RocketJSquirrel> ... that OS.
11:08:43 <RocketJSquirrel> It is 14 years old.
11:08:45 <RocketJSquirrel> Let it go.
11:09:18 <Ngevd> I just want it to be useful
11:09:47 <RocketJSquirrel> The fact that it's Windows precludes that possibility already.
11:10:12 <Ngevd> It's looking at me, with those big, sad eyes.
11:10:21 <Ngevd> Saying, "I want to be useful"
11:10:26 <Ngevd> "Please make me useful"
11:10:34 <Ngevd> "Like I was all those years ago"
11:10:50 <RocketJSquirrel> Nostalgia. It was never useful.
11:11:23 <Ngevd> Ssshhh!
11:11:28 <Ngevd> It doens't know that!
11:11:47 <RocketJSquirrel> No, it doesn't, but I don't have to hush. It is too stupid to understand.
11:12:19 <Ngevd> Well, I'm rampantly anthropomorphizing, but still.
11:12:39 <Ngevd> I can't make it boot from CD, so it's either this or have a hefty box to get rid of
11:14:18 <RocketJSquirrel> Does it have a floppy drive? Bootable?
11:14:41 <RocketJSquirrel> And wired network?
11:14:47 <Ngevd> It has a floppy drive, but it's the only device I own with one
11:14:52 <Ngevd> And no wired network
11:15:02 <RocketJSquirrel> Then to the trash with it!
11:15:04 <RocketJSquirrel> 2012!
11:15:14 <Ngevd> It has a DSL port, but is way too far from a DSL cable
11:15:31 <RocketJSquirrel> lol
11:16:13 <Ngevd> An idea I have just had!
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11:24:20 <Ngevd> Didn't work...
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11:43:51 <itidus20> is it win98 second edition?
11:43:56 <Ngevd> I believe so
11:44:09 <itidus20> yay
11:44:24 <itidus20> i don't even have a freaking clue what the difference is but i just know SE is better!
11:53:34 <RocketJSquirrel> "Isabella" is the most popular name for female newborns in the US.
11:53:35 <RocketJSquirrel> ... wut.
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14:02:11 <Ngevd> Hello!
14:02:27 <Ngevd> I have arrived in an alternate universe where I own a copy of Rome: Total War
14:05:33 <ais523> are you planning to play it?
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14:08:05 <RocketJSquirrel> Sometimes just being in the right universe is enough, y'know.
14:08:47 <itidus20> he would if his net connection started working
14:12:30 <ais523> why would it require a network connection? it's a singleplayer game
14:12:34 <ais523> well, mostly
14:12:47 <ais523> and I'm reasonably sure I've played it on a non-internet-connected machine
14:13:16 <itidus20> hmm.... you're right
14:13:43 <itidus20> if anything, his flailing connection might motivate him to play it
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16:27:05 <elliott> @John L: Can you give an example where STM will avoid extra work that can not be avoided using IORefs? – Clinton 17 mins ago
16:27:14 <elliott> RocketJSquirrel: This guy CANNOT BE STOPPED
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16:40:45 <elliott> kmc: that "replacement for SSH" wording + "uses SSH for login" is really confusing people
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17:06:17 <qfr> Have any of you ever taken a look at F#, by the way?
17:06:28 <qfr> I must admit I only glanced at it once
17:06:31 <qfr> When I was learning Haskell
17:06:43 <RocketJSquirrel> It's OCaml.
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17:07:00 <elliott> RocketJSquirrel: Not true.
17:07:05 <RocketJSquirrel> OK, it's OCaml.NET
17:07:24 <elliott> RocketJSquirrel: Exactly!
17:07:31 <elliott> RocketJSquirrel: It's the only way you can make OCaml's standard library worse.
17:07:38 <RocketJSquirrel> ^^
17:09:05 <qfr> Aw, I love C# <3
17:10:09 <elliott> qfr: Is "<3" a new-fangled sarcasm mark?
17:11:22 <qfr> No, it is supposed to depict the bubbly behind of a woman
17:11:36 <qfr> But I do love C#, I wasn't being sarcastic
17:11:52 <elliott> Yes, very funny.
17:12:12 <qfr> Well, there actually are some theories that the heart symbol is derived from that
17:12:18 <qfr> Others say it's from that plant
17:12:23 <qfr> It's not entirely clear
17:12:30 <elliott> No, I'm talking about <qfr> But I do love C#, I wasn't being sarcastic
17:13:19 <qfr> :\ do you still think I was being sarcastic? I have grown very fond of C# recently
17:13:29 <qfr> I used to be opposed to it because I thought its portability sucked
17:13:30 <KingOfKarlsruhe> C# rocks!
17:13:34 <elliott> I think it's literally impossible for anyone to like C# non-ironically.
17:13:36 <qfr> lol I live in Karlsruhe
17:13:43 <elliott> I mean, unless your point of comparison is Java.
17:13:51 <elliott> Okay, the lambdas and LINQ stuff are nice too.
17:13:53 <elliott> But it's still C#!
17:14:38 <qfr> I ran more tests with Mono on my Linux servers and it worked quite flawlessly for the most part
17:14:52 <qfr> I was surprised by how you could just feed it any Visual Studio compiled binary
17:15:21 <qfr> So I ended up changing my mind and I've been quite productive this past month
17:16:09 <qfr> And now I'm maintaining a C# open source project that actually has a considerable share of MacOS and Linux users
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17:18:45 <RocketJSquirrel> Other than the fact that it's a fairly dreary language (i.e. it's just not that interesting), my fear is that Microsoft are basically a bunch of dicks, and so will become sue-happy eventually.
17:18:59 <RocketJSquirrel> See for example: Oracle vs Google "lol Java runs everywhere except when we decide to sue you" debacle.
17:19:33 <elliott> I have to give them credit for the LINQ stuff, but only because they stole it from Haskell.
17:19:41 <RocketJSquirrel> lol
17:20:38 <RocketJSquirrel> Maybe "lol" should be the next Internet idiom I quit.
17:20:50 <RocketJSquirrel> I'm living a very happy and successful life without the tongue face smiley.
17:21:03 * elliott has mastered the art of using "lol" sparingly.
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17:22:38 <RocketJSquirrel> `pastelogs [<]elliott> lol
17:22:39 <qfr> [19:19:00] <RocketJSquirrel> See for example: Oracle vs Google "lol Java runs everywhere except when we decide to sue you" debacle.
17:22:43 <qfr> Oh? I'm not familiar with this case
17:22:49 <qfr> Care to elaborate?
17:23:11 <qfr> As for the Microsoft vs. Mono thing, I thought they were on amicable things now
17:23:14 <qfr> At least pre-Xamarin
17:23:16 <HackEgo> No output.
17:23:44 <qfr> Err, amicable *terms
17:23:48 <RocketJSquirrel> qfr: Oracle sued (is still in the endless process of suing) Google over vague Java-related patent infringement in Android.
17:24:02 <qfr> Oh, I totally missed that
17:24:08 <RocketJSquirrel> Or, put differently, "you implemented our language intended to be implemented everywhere, so we're suing you"
17:24:20 <elliott> (On the basis of "as there's only one way to implement these really trivial methods, you clearly stole them from us")
17:24:31 <qfr> Because they supposedly implemented some proprietary JVM technology?
17:24:33 <RocketJSquirrel> I certainly don't believe Microsoft is above such things, and I even more certainly don't believe that their current relationship with Mono has any relevance whatsoever.
17:24:48 <RocketJSquirrel> qfr: The exact details are (naturally) fuzzy, but that's the gist.
17:25:09 <elliott> qfr: Because they supposedly copied code from the standard library.
17:25:16 <elliott> RocketJSquirrel: "intended to be implemented everywhere" <-- you forgot "by us"
17:25:21 <RocketJSquirrel> elliott: No, the lawsuit is over patents, not copyrights.
17:25:25 <elliott> Oh, it is?
17:25:35 <RocketJSquirrel> Yes.
17:26:00 <RocketJSquirrel> Which means it's far more insidious. And squirrely. And flat-out evil.
17:26:11 <elliott> Well, you'd know about that second-last one.
17:26:29 <RocketJSquirrel> Indeeeeeed.
17:26:52 <olsner> it's funny because he has SQUIRREL in his nick name!
17:27:02 <qfr> On what legal basis could Microsoft leash out against Mono?
17:28:27 <qfr> "The C# language definition and the CLI are standardized under ISO and Ecma standards that provide reasonable and non-discriminatory licensing protection from patent claims. However, Microsoft uses C# and the CLI in its Base Class Library (BCL) that is the foundation of its proprietary .NET framework, and which provides a variety of non-standardized classes (extended I/O, GUI, Web services, etc.).
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17:28:43 <elliott> There's http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mono_(software)#Mono_and_Microsoft.27s_patents.
17:28:50 <elliott> But they have agreements with Novell making such action unlikely, I believe.
17:29:25 <elliott> The Mono-will-be-destroyed-by-MS-patents people tend to be conspiracy theorists.
17:29:36 <elliott> What was that blog again...
17:29:52 <qfr> "The concerns primarily relate to technologies developed by Microsoft on top of the .NET Framework, such as ASP.NET, ADO.NET and Windows Forms (see non-standardized namespaces), i.e. parts composing Mono’s Windows compatibility stack."
17:30:01 <qfr> Ah, that doesn't sound like an issue
17:30:05 <qfr> Who cares about those!
17:30:14 <qfr> I actually know some Mono ASP.NET developer
17:30:22 <elliott> Dammit, where is that insane blog :P
17:30:46 <KingOfKarlsruhe> it is also possible to run mono on android, i think you cannot do that with haskell!
17:30:52 <qfr> Haha
17:30:56 <qfr> I think you can
17:31:08 <elliott> GHC has a working iPhone port.
17:31:09 <qfr> KingOfKarlsruhe doesn't Android pretty much enable you to run arbitrary binaries?
17:31:12 <elliott> The Android port mostly works too, as I understand it.
17:31:16 <elliott> GHCi doesn't run on ARM yet, though.
17:31:18 <qfr> yeah, sounds like it
17:31:29 <elliott> Of course, the bindings to the Java GUI libraries aren't there yet.
17:31:31 <qfr> Does GHC have an AMD64 version for Windows yet?
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17:31:35 <elliott> But there's no inherent obstacle.
17:31:37 <elliott> qfr: Dunno.
17:31:38 <qfr> Back when I was doing Haskell it didn't
17:32:43 <qfr> http://hackage.haskell.org/trac/ghc/ticket/1884
17:32:46 <qfr> Opened 4 years ago
17:32:55 <qfr> Oh, I remember igloo
17:33:00 <qfr> I think I talked to him on freenode
17:33:19 <qfr> "A working mingw64 port, which doesn't exist yet." ohhh
17:33:22 <qfr> I totally forgot about this
17:33:58 <olsner> But "The 64-bit mingw probably works now", said spj 2 years ago
17:34:08 <qfr> haha
17:34:41 <olsner> the primary obstacle for things like that is always finding someone who cares enough to do it
17:35:04 <qfr> Yeah, I actually talked to devs about this
17:35:09 <qfr> They said it's quite an adventure to do this
17:35:52 <qfr> And involves a complicated multi-stage bootstrapping process where components are partially translated with an existing GHC on another platform to generate C out of that
17:36:10 <qfr> And then it's compiled using a C compiler for the target platform
17:36:22 <qfr> Or something like that
17:36:26 <qfr> It sounded like a nightmare anyways
17:39:59 <RocketJSquirrel> Last I checked, mingw64 works quite well.
17:41:00 <qfr> :)
17:41:30 <qfr> They will gladly port GHC to random phone XYZ
17:41:30 <RocketJSquirrel> Well, modulo the fact that it's Windows-related, and thus does not work by definition.
17:41:42 <qfr> But for Windows... no interest!
17:41:58 <elliott> 64-bit Windows is kiiiind of a niche market.
17:42:07 <qfr> Heh
17:42:15 <RocketJSquirrel> qfr: [Sponsored by Microsoft Research]
17:44:47 <elliott> Aha, I think this is the insane anti-Mono site: http://techrights.org/?stories
17:44:58 <elliott> Not sure though
17:46:04 <RocketJSquirrel> Oh, D.
17:46:06 <RocketJSquirrel> D, D, D.
17:46:09 <RocketJSquirrel> Why you gotta, D?
17:46:10 <elliott> D
17:46:34 <RocketJSquirrel> D is a language so good it made me leave it and learn to love C again.
17:47:01 * elliott wonders if Esolang should really be linking to a site that contains things like http://detain.me/tools/aimspem.php.
17:47:13 <elliott> RocketJSquirrel: Anyway, why'd you bring up D :P
17:47:25 <RocketJSquirrel> Because people were talking about C# *shrugs*
17:48:23 <RocketJSquirrel> Incidentally, is it officially C#, or C♯?
17:48:45 <RocketJSquirrel> I know the pronunciation is C♯, but then Apple pronounces 'X' as "ten" so *eh*
17:49:17 <RocketJSquirrel> (As opposed to "decem", PEDANTS)
17:49:25 <elliott> It's C#.
17:49:47 <RocketJSquirrel> Feh. C Octothorpe.
17:50:50 <qfr> I wish elliott would stop appending dots to URLs
17:51:11 <qfr> Requires me to manually copy URLs to open them :'(
17:51:35 <qfr> [19:49:18] <RocketJSquirrel> (As opposed to "decem", PEDANTS)
17:51:40 <elliott> qfr: Appending dots where?
17:51:44 <elliott> Oh.
17:51:46 <olsner> qfr: you have to finish the sentence with a dot, and spurious whitespace makes you look stupid
17:51:47 <qfr> Well, most of them would fail to pronounce that properly, too
17:51:49 <elliott> I write sentences, man.
17:51:58 <elliott> olsner: I like how that sentence didn't end with a dot.
17:52:10 <olsner> oh, I mean... "stupid ."
17:52:54 <olsner> oh well, I don't speak in sentences anyway, I speak in lines
17:53:20 <qfr> The classical Latin DECEM was probably pronounced [dE"ke~]
17:53:43 <qfr> Most would probably erroneously pronounce it with an [m], heh
17:55:54 <qfr> Woops, the second vowel should be long, I think
17:56:04 <qfr> [dE"ke:~], there
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18:04:42 <RocketJSquirrel> I always add spurious whitespace when there's a URL or email address at the end of a sentence.
18:04:47 <RocketJSquirrel> At least it's unambiguous.
18:04:54 <RocketJSquirrel> In fact, it's not even spurious whitespace, it's only grammatically spurious.
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18:10:54 <elliott> RocketJSquirrel: It's ugly :(
18:11:04 <RocketJSquirrel> Waaaah.
18:11:21 <RocketJSquirrel> elliott: In your last line, you used ":(" as your punctuation, and had a space before it.
18:12:33 <qfr> Plenk !
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18:20:16 <elliott> DevHC_ is such a huge raging asshole jesus christ
18:21:38 <RocketJSquirrel> I misread "raging" as "rotating".
18:21:40 <RocketJSquirrel> I was confused.
18:32:25 <shachaf> elliott: I think you just don't appreciate the expressiveness.
18:32:45 <elliott> shachaf: I like how dmwit told me to stop and not DevHC. :(
18:32:52 <elliott> @sclv is right; Haskell typeclasses are much closer to OOP interfaces than OOP classes, but even that analogy isn't perfect. In fact, the closest thing to OOP classes in Haskell are simply data types containing functions and monadic actions. – ehird 15 mins ago
18:32:52 <lambdabot> Unknown command, try @list
18:32:52 <elliott> @ehird Not really. – Marcin 13 mins ago
18:32:53 <lambdabot> Unknown command, try @list
18:32:57 * elliott has been LOGICED
18:33:24 <shachaf> elliott: Did you know geekosaur == allbery_b?
18:33:42 <dbelange> did you know _why == Cale?
18:33:51 <shachaf> whoa
18:33:53 <elliott> shachaf: I keep realising that and then forgetting it later.
18:34:31 <elliott> Anyone who says the exact same things as me for like five minutes gets on my Good Person List, though.
18:34:42 <elliott> Cue shachaf copying my lines verbatim for the next five minutes.
18:35:22 <shachaf> elliott: I've already said the exact same things as you for five minutes.
18:35:49 <shachaf> But I'm pretty sure anyone "shachaf" `isInfixOf` whose nick gets off your Good Person List.
18:35:49 <monqy> I almost said hi shachaf what is wrong with me
18:35:54 <shachaf> hi monqy
18:35:57 <monqy> D:
18:36:12 <shachaf> monqy: It's very natural.
18:36:29 <shachaf> Everyone wants to say hi shachaf once in a while.
18:36:46 <elliott> shachaf: Are you referring to five-minute periods of silence?
18:37:07 <shachaf> elliott: Also to the times when we were both saying sense to someone in #haskell who was saying non-.
18:37:10 <shachaf> Remember those times?
18:37:16 <shachaf> Those were the times, man.
18:37:29 <shachaf> libmonqy.so.1
18:38:02 <elliott> accepts answer -> 10 minutes pass -> "I think I need to digest this some more :) – Peter Hall 4 secs ago" -> de-accepts answer
18:38:03 <qfr> How come there are seemingly so many people who talk about Haskell but no high profile projects other than maybe GHC itself?
18:38:04 <elliott> :'(
18:38:15 <elliott> qfr: Because that's a stupid lie.
18:38:33 <monqy> because haskell isn't practical
18:38:38 <elliott> There's xmonad and darcs, for one. And Yesod, Snap, Happstack.
18:38:48 <elliott> (If you think libraries can't count as buzz, cf. Ruby, Rails.)
18:38:53 <qfr> Oh yeah I know all of those actually
18:38:56 <shachaf> elliott: Uh-oh.
18:38:56 <qfr> I used Yesod and Snap
18:39:01 <qfr> I just didn't consider them high profile honestly
18:39:13 <shachaf> elliott: Google now autocapitalizes letters at the beginning of a search.
18:39:15 <qfr> I think xmonad is the highest profile one out of those
18:39:23 <elliott> Well, how many famous Ruby things can you name off the top of your head, if you're not paying attention to the Ruby community?
18:39:23 <dbelange> nobody actually uses xmonad
18:39:30 <elliott> s/Ruby/pretty much any language/
18:39:31 <shachaf> elliott: Not always, but if you have an existing Google search and press Esc and then type something new...
18:39:41 <qfr> I think I know two or three people who use it
18:39:42 <elliott> Haskell gets most of its use in internal corporate junk, I think.
18:39:43 <monqy> dbelange: I don't use a window manager, so I would know
18:39:45 <qfr> That's evidence enough for me
18:39:52 <shachaf> elliott: TWITTER = THE FUTURE
18:40:04 <elliott> shachaf: [status-norepro]
18:40:10 <qfr> elliott Rails, Github?
18:40:23 <qfr> I must admit I'm not good with this though
18:40:25 <elliott> qfr: Okay, that's two. Twitter also counts.
18:40:44 <qfr> Because I don't really know what most of them use
18:40:45 <elliott> Since we have 6 for Haskell, that doesn't seem bad, considering Haskell is rather less popular (at least on the internet) than Ruby.
18:40:52 <elliott> (I can think of like 5 more for Ruby, though.)
18:40:56 <qfr> It was just recently that I discovered about the history of Reddit, for example
18:40:59 <qfr> Common Lisp -> Python
18:41:07 <qfr> I think Facebook is PHP + MySQL :\
18:41:09 <shachaf> elliott: http://rubyonrails.org/applications
18:41:34 <qfr> lol I don't know any of those
18:41:35 <shachaf> (Did I ever mention how Ruby === Rails.)
18:41:36 <qfr> Except for Github
18:41:41 <elliott> qfr: Funny you should mention that, because Facebook use Haskell.
18:41:43 <elliott> To transform PHP code.
18:41:47 <elliott> They also have a PHP compiler thing in Haskell
18:41:50 <elliott> *Haskell.
18:42:02 <shachaf> elliott: Their PHP-to-C++ compiler isn't in Haskell...
18:42:03 <dbelange> boycott haskell
18:42:08 <qfr> shachaf haha, every time I say I did something in Ruby I add "(not Rails)"
18:42:09 <Sgeo> elliott, they use Erlang for the chat, right?
18:42:11 <elliott> shachaf: Maybe I mean their virtual machine or something.
18:42:14 <elliott> I don't know.
18:42:19 <Sgeo> Do they use CL or Scheme for anything?
18:42:19 <elliott> They have multiple PHP things in Haskell.
18:42:26 <shachaf> elliott: I don't think there's anything.
18:42:30 <elliott> shachaf: Eh?
18:42:49 <shachaf> They have one PHP thing in Haskell. Which they probably don't even use anymore.
18:43:06 <elliott> I swear it was two. But okay.
18:43:14 <elliott> "Facebook uses some Haskell internally for tools. lex-pass is a tool for programmatically manipulating a PHP code base via Haskell."
18:43:17 <elliott> See, "tools", plural!
18:43:26 <elliott> "Large, bloated Javascript framework with an unintuitive, verbose syntax and very few features. Browsing its inelegant, poorly written source is an unwelcome experience." -- description of Facebook project
18:43:28 <qfr> shachaf yeah
18:43:48 <qfr> I thought the Facebook frontend was pretty much fully written in plain PHP
18:43:52 <qfr> No idea about the backend
18:44:10 <qfr> It's surprising enough that they still use MySQL
18:44:26 <qfr> I think it's the only big site I know that uses it
18:44:32 <shachaf> hisql
18:44:34 <shachaf> hi
18:44:36 <shachaf> hi monqy
18:44:44 <qfr> I think Reddit used Postgres
18:46:02 <monqy> shachaf is that a poem
18:46:10 <shachaf> qfr: Google AdWords uses it...
18:46:14 <qfr> :o
18:46:27 <shachaf> And so does Wikipedia.
18:46:33 <shachaf> monqy: You tell me.
18:47:36 <monqy> i have expunged my poem sense, none remains
18:47:49 <qfr> Oh yeah, Wikipedia is the second big fish with MySQL under the hood
18:48:13 <shachaf> AdWords is kind of a big fish.
18:52:10 <RocketJSquirrel> Does MediaWiki only work with MySQL?
18:52:16 <qfr> Yes
18:52:23 <qfr> They don't support any other DBMS afaik
18:52:47 <qfr> It's the traditional horror of PHP and MySQL
18:53:23 <elliott> Uh...
18:53:31 <elliott> qfr: You're just pulling that out of your ass, right?
18:53:56 <elliott> RocketJSquirrel: MediaWiki supports MySQL, PostgreSQL, Oracle, SQLite, and IBM DB2.
18:54:05 <qfr> Close enough!
18:54:09 <elliott> RocketJSquirrel: MySQL has the best support, followed by either PostgreSQL or SQLite, I forget which.
18:54:12 <elliott> The other two are experimental.
18:58:43 <elliott> shachaf: How do I make ssh-agent only ask me for my password on the first ssh login?
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19:24:20 <elliott> shachaf: Is there a faster way of getting (n .&. 255, n `unsafeShiftR` 8)?
19:24:33 -!- oerjan has joined.
19:24:58 <elliott> hi oerjan
19:25:06 <oerjan> hi elliott
19:29:03 <elliott> > (-1234) .&. 255
19:29:04 <lambdabot> Ambiguous type variable `a' in the constraint:
19:29:04 <lambdabot> `Data.Bits.Bits a'
19:29:04 <lambdabot> a...
19:32:43 <Deewiant> > (-1234) .&. 255 :: Int
19:32:44 <lambdabot> 46
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19:41:59 <elliott> Deewiant: Is there a faster way of getting (n .&. 255, n `unsafeShiftR` 8)? :(
19:43:37 <Deewiant> If it compiles to a mov and a shift then no :-P
19:44:24 <Deewiant> Maybe fromIntegral is faster than the .&., if you're storing it in a Int8/Word8
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19:47:54 <elliott> Deewiant: Nope
19:47:59 <elliott> Deewiant: Hmm
19:48:04 <elliott> Deewiant: I could separate that fast path out
19:49:38 <elliott> turning
19:49:39 <elliott> reifyIntPtr :: IntPtr -> (forall s. ReifiesIntPtr s => Proxy s -> r) -> r
19:49:39 <elliott> #define GO(n) reifyIntPtr n k = k (Proxy :: Proxy CAT(T,n));
19:49:39 <elliott> BYTES(GO)
19:49:39 <elliott> #undef GO
19:49:39 <elliott> reifyIntPtr p k =
19:49:40 <elliott> reifyIntPtr (p .&. 255) (\a ->
19:49:42 <elliott> reifyIntPtr (p `unsafeShiftR` 8) (\b ->
19:49:44 <elliott> k (liftA2 (,) a b)))
19:49:46 <elliott> into
19:49:48 <elliott> reifyIntPtr :: IntPtr -> (forall s. ReifiesIntPtr s => Proxy s -> r) -> r
19:49:50 <elliott> reifyIntPtr p k
19:49:52 <elliott> | p < 256 = reifyByte (fromIntegral p) k
19:49:54 <elliott> | otherwise =
19:49:56 <elliott> reifyByte (fromIntegral p) (\a ->
19:49:58 <elliott> reifyIntPtr (p `unsafeShiftR` 8) (\b ->
19:50:00 <elliott> k (liftA2 (,) a b)))
19:50:02 <elliott> where {
19:50:04 <elliott> reifyByte :: Word8 -> (forall s. ReifiesIntPtr s => Proxy s -> r) -> r;
19:50:06 <elliott> #define GO(n) reifyByte n k = k (Proxy :: Proxy CAT(T,n));
19:50:08 <elliott> BYTES(GO)
19:50:10 <elliott> #undef GO
19:50:12 <elliott> reifyByte _ _ = undefined;
19:50:14 <elliott> }
19:50:16 <elliott> But I dunno if that'd do anything
19:50:49 <elliott> http://stackoverflow.com/users/1097181/ehird?tab=reputation YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
19:52:06 <elliott> oerjan: Take that, team Trondheim!
19:52:27 <olsner> I have 186 points
19:53:43 <elliott> I HAVE 20,001
19:53:47 <Deewiant> I have 1
19:54:02 <elliott> THAT'S 20,000 LESS THAN ME
19:54:13 <elliott> Damn, now I really want to lose 1 rep.
19:54:18 <elliott> And keep it like that. Forever
19:54:22 <elliott> *.
20:01:24 <qfr> My Stackoverflow history is shameful
20:01:56 <qfr> I'm at 11 and my profile even contains questions about HTML
20:02:15 <oerjan> elliott: "That's mitigated by laziness (only the parts of the tree you actually look at get constructed), "
20:02:21 * elliott just does all Haskell all the time.
20:02:24 <oerjan> istr Map is spine strict
20:02:33 <elliott> oerjan: Oh, right.
20:02:39 <elliott> oerjan: Remind me to edit that later.
20:02:58 <oerjan> @tell elliott Edit "That's mitigated by laziness (only the parts of the tree you actually look at get constructed), "
20:02:58 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
20:03:05 <elliott> @clear-messages
20:03:06 <lambdabot> Messages cleared.
20:03:13 <elliott> BTW, can someone figure out whether http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=Tiny&curid=1810&diff=31902&oldid=30619 is valid and make the necessary adjustment :P
20:03:33 <elliott> case eqWord# a1_a2zI (__word 0) of _ {
20:03:33 <elliott> False ->
20:03:33 <elliott> case eqWord# a1_a2zI (__word 1) of _ {
20:03:33 <elliott> False ->
20:03:33 <elliott> case eqWord# a1_a2zI (__word 2) of _ {
20:03:34 <elliott> False ->
20:03:36 <elliott> case eqWord# a1_a2zI (__word 3) of _ {
20:03:38 <elliott> False ->
20:03:40 <elliott> case eqWord# a1_a2zI (__word 4) of _ {
20:03:42 <elliott> False ->
20:03:44 <elliott> case eqWord# a1_a2zI (__word 5) of _ {
20:03:46 <elliott> False ->
20:03:48 <elliott> case eqWord# a1_a2zI (__word 6) of _ {
20:03:50 <elliott> False ->
20:03:52 <elliott> Hooooly shit
20:03:54 <elliott> GHC
20:03:56 <elliott> There are much
20:03:58 <elliott> better ways to do that
20:03:58 <olsner> nice core
20:04:19 <elliott> It gets better
20:04:25 <elliott> False ->
20:04:25 <elliott> case eqWord#
20:04:25 <elliott> a1_a2zI
20:04:25 <elliott> (__word 32)
20:04:27 <elliott> of _ {
20:04:30 <elliott> False ->
20:04:33 <elliott> case eqWord#
20:04:36 <elliott> a1_a2zI
20:04:37 <qfr> Is this really necessary?
20:04:39 <elliott> (__word 33)
20:04:42 <elliott> of _ {
20:04:45 <elliott> False ->
20:04:47 <olsner> so, how far does it go?
20:04:48 <elliott> case eqWord#
20:04:51 <elliott> a1_a2zI
20:04:54 <elliott> (__word 34)
20:04:57 <elliott>
20:04:59 <oerjan> @tell elliott_ Edit "That's mitigated by laziness (only the parts of the tree you actually look at get constructed), "
20:04:59 <RocketJSquirrel> oerjan: BAN ELLIOTT
20:05:00 <elliott> Margins? What margins?
20:05:00 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
20:05:01 <elliott> Absolutely.
20:05:03 <elliott> olsner: Up to 255
20:05:05 <elliott> It ends up at one word per line.
20:05:07 <elliott> oerjan: I don't use that nick :'(
20:05:09 <elliott> Much.
20:06:00 <oerjan> elliott: well it should be late enough then :P
20:06:09 -!- Loupca has joined.
20:06:14 <Loupca> Hi.
20:06:16 <elliott> welcome Loupca
20:06:17 <elliott> oops
20:06:18 <elliott> `welcome Loupca
20:06:25 <HackEgo> Loupca: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
20:06:26 <elliott> would hate to give the impression i'm personally welcoming someone, naturally
20:06:45 <oerjan> elliott: TOO LATE
20:06:53 <oerjan> your reputation is _ruined_
20:06:55 <elliott> MY REPUTATION!!!
20:06:57 <elliott> Yes.
20:07:50 <oerjan> (hi Loupca)
20:08:01 <nortti> why is it no longer "hub of witchcraft and occultism"?
20:08:14 <oerjan> nortti: because April 1 passed, hth
20:08:28 <olsner> nortti: you might be looking for #esoteric on dalnet
20:08:35 <oerjan> `? esoteric
20:08:38 <HackEgo> This channel is about programming -- for the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.
20:09:52 <elliott> STOP SAYING "S00N" AAAARGH
20:10:01 <elliott> Wait, there's someone new here.
20:10:11 * elliott resolves to make marginally more sense for the next 10 minutes.
20:10:29 <olsner> *more* sense? why?
20:10:39 <RocketJSquirrel> Egad.
20:10:44 <oerjan> s4y 14T3R inst34d
20:10:53 <RocketJSquirrel> ..........
20:10:56 <elliott> I wonder what http://sprunge.us/MbYN is.
20:11:34 <elliott> RocketJSquirrel: wat
20:11:49 <olsner> elliott: looks like an absentError
20:21:14 -!- Loupca has left.
20:22:25 <elliott> RIP Loupca.
20:23:08 -!- boily has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7).
20:24:08 <elliott> > 2493 / 200
20:24:09 <lambdabot> 12.465
20:24:18 <elliott> Hmm.
20:26:13 <qfr> Oh, I just realised, I've never actually investigated what kind of SQL interfaces the Haskell people came up with
20:26:26 <qfr> I imagine it's like a more sophisticated version of Linq
20:28:39 <elliott> qfr: Alas, not really
20:29:02 <elliott> Monad comprehensions are new and monasd don'ta llow the kind of introspection you need to do something like that nicely
20:30:15 <qfr> :(
20:30:23 <qfr> So they've been using raw SQL strings?
20:30:26 <qfr> I am very disapointed
20:30:34 <qfr> I was expecting some overengineered solution
20:30:47 <qfr> Which allows overly condensed expressions
20:30:57 <qfr> In native Haskell syntax without any strings at all
20:31:13 <elliott> No, not raw SQL strings.
20:31:29 <elliott> Well, not universally, at least.
20:33:13 <RocketJSquirrel> Why are computery people so opposed to capitalization, I wonder.
20:33:34 <nortti> what is so special about haskell compared to scheme for example?
20:33:34 <RocketJSquirrel> Is it a backlash from THE DAYS OF COBOL WHEN EVERYTHING HAD TO BE ALL CAPS?
20:33:52 <qfr> RocketJSquirrel how are they opposed to capitalisation?
20:34:03 <qfr> Look at us, we are computery people and we capitalise properly!
20:34:04 <RocketJSquirrel> qfr: Consider for example your nick.
20:34:15 <RocketJSquirrel> qfr: Consider for example names of 99% of projects in the F/OSS world.
20:34:15 <qfr> My choice in names is atypical
20:34:25 <qfr> Usually I capitalise full nick names
20:34:41 <qfr> This, however, is a cryptic short string from a Semitic root
20:34:49 <RocketJSquirrel> qfr: Then look beyond yourself, look at all the nicks on this channel. Me and my bots account for nearly every capitalized nick.
20:34:49 <qfr> Which I chose when I stopped using centralised names on the internet
20:34:58 <qfr> I now use about 30 different names, one for each service
20:35:35 <qfr> Currently I use 4 two or three letter nicks on IRC
20:35:39 <RocketJSquirrel> qfr: Kind of unrelated to my point ;)
20:35:41 <qfr> All of which are lower case
20:35:45 <qfr> And one longer upper case nick
20:35:57 <qfr> I mean, initial capital
20:36:04 <qfr> Not all caps
20:38:27 <RocketJSquirrel> So aaaaaaaaaaanyway. My point still stands, that in general computer folks eschew capitalization. Even if they capitalize sentences properly, proper names are rarely capitalized, and sometimes defiantly decapitalized even when sentence-initial.
20:39:44 <qfr> I started switching to UpperCamelCase in my project names when I switched to C#
20:39:57 <qfr> My Ruby projects mostly-used-this-notation
20:40:07 <qfr> In my C++ days I was using this_notation
20:40:20 <qfr> For both names in the code and project names
20:41:23 <oerjan> RocketJSquirrel: for a start, the irc nick in irssi is by default the same as the username, which historically did not work well with upper case in it (i think using upper case for the username triggered a caps-only terminal mode?)
20:43:08 <RocketJSquirrel> oerjan: And most of those who don't use irssi or choose not to use the default nick will still choose an all-lower name. You're shaving a tiny corner off of a more fundamental issue.
20:43:33 <oerjan> RocketJSquirrel: it may be entrenched tradition, is what i'm saying
20:43:35 <elliott> Capitalisation is ugly.
20:43:50 <elliott> Anyway, I would guess that the Unix days, or just before that, is when it came about.
20:43:59 <elliott> RocketJSquirrel: Remember that there wasn't an upper/lowercase distinction for quite a while.
20:44:10 <RocketJSquirrel> elliott: Yes, but when there wasn't, EVERYTHING WAS UPPER CASE.
20:44:22 <elliott> RocketJSquirrel: Yes, but once you get case distinction, with your entrenched single-case habits, do you call yourself KEN or ken?
20:44:24 <RocketJSquirrel> <RocketJSquirrel> Is it a backlash from THE DAYS OF COBOL WHEN EVERYTHING HAD TO BE ALL CAPS?
20:44:30 <elliott> I know which I'd pick.
20:44:45 <RocketJSquirrel> So, in short, "yes" is your answer to that question ;)
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20:46:09 -!- Ngevd has joined.
20:46:12 <elliott> hi Ngevd
20:46:17 <elliott> team hexham just hit 20k
20:46:17 <Ngevd> Hello
20:46:23 <Ngevd> Oh dear god
20:46:33 <Ngevd> Team Hexham exists
20:47:00 <Ngevd> Also, our dear friend NSXQ seems to have forgotten the existence of talk pages
20:49:04 <elliott> That's not NSQX.
20:49:14 <elliott> For a start, his IP isn't in the 200s any more.
20:49:17 <elliott> For a start, it was never that :)
20:49:18 <Ngevd> So it isn't
20:49:38 <Ngevd> It's NSQXesque
20:51:22 <Ngevd> Also, what's the context to team hexham?
20:52:01 <Ngevd> All the Courant has is "War declared on pigeons"
20:52:09 <elliott> http://stackoverflow.com/users/1097181/ehird?tab=reputation
20:52:21 <Ngevd> Oh, that one
20:52:35 <Ngevd> Well, I haven't upvoted you since you got passed 20
20:53:23 -!- nortti has quit (Quit: nortti).
20:53:23 <KingOfKarlsruhe> why does everybody knows haskell in this channel? should i really lean it?
20:53:32 <Ngevd> It's up to you
20:53:42 <Ngevd> It's a nice language that I enjoy using
20:53:46 <elliott> Not everyone does! Just the most active people :P
20:53:56 <Ngevd> But everyone is different, so you may not enjoy it
20:54:02 <elliott> (If you do decide to learn it, http://learnyouahaskell.com/ is probably the best way.)
20:54:08 <Ngevd> (amen to that)
20:54:42 <Ngevd> It's a quirky language, when compared to the vast majority of languages
20:54:50 <Ngevd> Even other functional ones
20:55:05 <oerjan> > nubBy(((>1).).gcd)[2..]
20:55:06 <lambdabot> [2,3,5,7,11,13,17,19,23,29,31,37,41,43,47,53,59,61,67,71,73,79,83,89,97,101...
20:55:42 <Ngevd> oerjan, is that...
20:55:42 <elliott> Uh oh
20:55:48 <elliott> dons is back in the game
20:55:49 <Ngevd> is that an infinite list of all the primes?
20:55:53 <oerjan> yes.
20:56:00 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Lost terminal).
20:56:16 <elliott> rip oerjan
20:56:23 <Ngevd> The assassins of C++ have killed him
20:56:49 <qfr> [22:53:24] <KingOfKarlsruhe> why does everybody knows haskell in this channel? should i really lean it?
20:56:51 <qfr> No, don't bother
20:57:05 <qfr> KingOfKarlsruhe you still haven't reacted to me mentioning that I live in Karlsruhe, by the way
20:57:20 <KingOfKarlsruhe> are you a student?
20:57:21 <Ngevd> Karlsruhe: the new Hexham?
20:57:30 <Ngevd> ONLY TIME WILL TELL
20:57:36 <KingOfKarlsruhe> KSC = looser club
20:57:55 <Ngevd> looser than what?
20:58:06 <oklofok> than any other club
20:58:16 <Ngevd> Aaah
20:58:24 <oklofok> looser in tightness of winningness.
20:58:32 <Ngevd> Then surely the superlative would be more appropriate?
20:58:37 <Ngevd> As in, "loosest club"
20:59:06 <oklofok> hmm
20:59:12 <oklofok> yeah probably
20:59:34 <Ngevd> http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=hexham%2C+karlsruhe%2C+helsinki
20:59:39 <Ngevd> Hexham's still the densest
20:59:48 <qfr> > map (\n -> 2 * n^2 + 11) [0..10]
20:59:50 <lambdabot> [11,13,19,29,43,61,83,109,139,173,211]
21:00:07 <qfr> KingOfKarlsruhe yes, I'm a student
21:00:13 <qfr> It's "loser", by the way
21:00:21 <Ngevd> (unless someone here lives in a town with less than ~6000 people?)
21:00:58 <KingOfKarlsruhe> qfr: my english is really bad
21:01:21 <qfr> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karlsruher_SC ah
21:01:24 <shachaf> elliott: I just use ssh-add.
21:01:50 <qfr> KingOfKarlsruhe I have no interest in sports
21:02:10 <elliott> shachaf: :(
21:02:11 <shachaf> elliott: "faster" in what sense.
21:02:20 <elliott> In the sense of SPEED.
21:02:24 <shachaf> elliott: Oh.
21:02:27 <oklofok> qfr: what do you study?
21:02:34 <qfr> Computard science
21:02:38 <KingOfKarlsruhe> me too ^^
21:02:39 <qfr> About 7 months to go for my MSc
21:02:44 <shachaf> elliott: I'm going to not read all the scrollbacklog and just assume that you managed to solve it.
21:02:48 <oklofok> it's "computer", by the way
21:02:53 <shachaf> elliott: However, there *is* a way.
21:02:54 <qfr> Could have been done in about 3 months from now but I'm being so lazy right now
21:03:01 <elliott> shachaf: I... sort of did.
21:03:04 <shachaf> I know that because Ubuntu gives you a fancy GUI by default.
21:03:10 <elliott> What?
21:03:13 <elliott> Oh.
21:03:17 <elliott> I thought you were talking about the faster thing.
21:03:22 <elliott> shachaf: That's GNOME's ssh-agent.
21:03:26 <elliott> Which is a different implementation.
21:03:27 <qfr> KingOfKarlsruhe Diplom or BSc/MSc?
21:03:35 <qfr> <- 12th semester
21:03:42 <shachaf> elliott: OK.
21:03:51 <KingOfKarlsruhe> qfr: BSc at the HSKA
21:04:03 <oklofok> semester = half a year?
21:04:05 <qfr> Yes
21:04:06 <KingOfKarlsruhe> 6th Semester
21:04:08 <qfr> I don't know what HSKA is
21:04:11 <qfr> I'm at KIT
21:04:14 <shachaf> hi
21:04:16 <shachaf> hi monqy
21:04:19 <qfr> HSKA = FH?
21:04:20 <shachaf> hi there monqy
21:04:21 <shachaf> hi
21:04:23 <oklofok> i've finished my degree but would be my 8th
21:04:44 <KingOfKarlsruhe> University of Applied Sciences http://www.hs-karlsruhe.de/en/home.html
21:04:47 <oklofok> i don't know if that's really appropriate anymore since i don't really take any classes
21:04:59 -!- Ngevd has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
21:07:42 <KingOfKarlsruhe> qfr: 12th? 4 yeas oO
21:07:56 <oklofok> 4?
21:08:07 <oklofok> idgi
21:08:08 <qfr> It takes most people 13 semesters to finsih this degree
21:08:25 <oklofok> most people are idiots
21:08:41 -!- RocketJSquirrel has quit (Read error: Operation timed out).
21:08:53 <qfr> I have no incentive to work any harder honestly
21:09:28 <olsner> is that 13 semesters in real time, or 13 semesters of studies?
21:09:28 <qfr> I know somebody who did it in 11
21:09:30 <oklofok> my incentive was to get my degree fast.
21:09:32 <qfr> That's about as low as you can go
21:09:38 <qfr> He got 100% in every exam
21:09:45 <qfr> he's doing his PhD now
21:09:55 <oklofok> well my degree usually takes 12 semesters, and i did it in 6
21:10:08 <qfr> lol
21:10:19 <oklofok> 100%? cool
21:10:26 <olsner> I think I am currently on my 16th semester
21:10:39 <qfr> olsner 13 semesters of real time I think
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21:10:53 <oklofok> i've been told you pretty much cannot get 100% when percentage grading is used
21:10:57 <oklofok> in most universities
21:11:05 <qfr> They don't use percentage grading
21:11:19 <qfr> It's a variety of bizarre German systems
21:11:19 <oklofok> oh well i have the best possible average too
21:11:23 <qfr> None of which make any sense
21:11:29 <oklofok> but we just have a scale from 1 to 5
21:12:03 <oklofok> but i've gotten a few things wrong on exams
21:12:14 <qfr> I think there is 1, 1.3, 1.7, 2, 2.3, 2.7, 3, 3.3, 3.7, 4.0 and 5.0
21:12:22 <qfr> 1 being the best
21:12:24 <oklofok> i see :D
21:12:25 <qfr> 5.0 failed
21:12:27 <qfr> It makes no sense
21:12:44 <oklofok> that may be the silliest thing i've ever heard
21:12:48 <olsner> it's a clever ruse to keep people from caring too much about grades
21:12:56 <qfr> But hey, I've never failed an exam and my grades are 1.7 - 2 mostly
21:13:08 <oklofok> i've failed one exam
21:13:15 <oklofok> basic computer skills.
21:13:28 <qfr> I'm mostly just hanging out at home
21:13:44 <qfr> Overeating, pursuing my addiction to video games and series
21:13:53 <qfr> Occasionally doing a bit of coding or making music
21:14:02 <qfr> I don't attend of any the lectures honestly
21:14:09 <oklofok> i read that as "doing a bit my cousin"
21:14:12 <qfr> I stopped doing that after one semester
21:14:31 <oklofok> and i was like wtf
21:14:34 <qfr> I've been pretty much consistently skipping all of them for 4 years
21:14:37 <oklofok> because the grammar was just horrile
21:14:40 <oklofok> *horrible
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21:15:06 <qfr> And I still believe that I have learned pretty much nothing that is of professional relevance to me, lol
21:15:11 <qfr> But hey, it's better than working
21:15:17 <qfr> And I get money for this, so
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21:15:29 <oklofok> i have to attend lectures nowadays because it's just us 3 ppl giving the course to each other :(
21:15:46 <oklofok> i think they would notice if i skipped it
21:15:58 <elliott> hi oerjan
21:16:19 <oklofok> hi oerjan, what's up and how high?
21:16:38 -!- augur has joined.
21:16:48 <oerjan> the andromeda galaxy, about 2 million light years
21:16:53 <fizzie> The high oerjan.
21:17:14 <fizzie> (I'm no longer in oerjanland now.)
21:17:22 <fizzie> (Isn't that what it's called?)
21:17:27 <oerjan> sure
21:17:37 <oerjan> how did you escape my devious snow trap
21:17:53 <fizzie> Some other Norwegians helped us to push the car out.
21:17:57 <fizzie> (True story.)
21:18:04 <oerjan> ah.
21:18:19 <fizzie> Also two other groups were all "what the what kind of car this is, it doesn't even have the rear hook".
21:18:24 <fizzie> (It was a city kind of car.)
21:18:30 <oklofok> fizzie: how do you know one of them wasn't oerjan?
21:18:39 <fizzie> Well, I don't, really.
21:18:52 <oklofok> well that's a bit suspicious
21:19:20 * oerjan cackles mysteriously
21:19:37 <fizzie> There were two places called Bø in Lofoten, we were kind of wondering how they disambiguate those. (The road signs to Å said "Å i Lofoten", but that doesn't work for the two Bøs.)
21:20:07 <oerjan> are you sure of this
21:20:26 <fizzie> Reasonably, though we did not take photos of the signs.
21:20:33 <fizzie> I guess they could've meant something else.
21:20:46 <fizzie> But they looked very similar to the other signs that were unmistakably place names.
21:20:59 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
21:21:02 <fizzie> Also I kept mentally-pronouncing "bobil" like the English "mobile", except with 'b'.
21:21:19 <oklofok> just because they are unmistakable doesn't mean you necessarily unmistake them.
21:21:21 <oerjan> fizzie: note that Vesterålen is _not_ Lofoten, despite being sort of part of the general area
21:21:27 <oklofok> it just means you can unmistake them.
21:21:57 <fizzie> oerjan: Well, it could be something like that. The second Bø was more nearer to the mainland, I suppose.
21:22:15 <fizzie> I mean, it was somewhere between Svolvær and Kiruna (in Sweden), that's about all I know.
21:22:55 <oerjan> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%C3%B8 has rather a lot in Nordland & Troms :P
21:23:19 <fizzie> You sure like your Bøs.
21:23:40 <qfr> I wonder if Mono will ever gain a status like JVM in terms of being targeted by other programming languages
21:24:10 <oerjan> i believe only the Vestvågøy one counts as Lofoten
21:24:19 <elliott> qfr: .NET already is.
21:24:24 <elliott> cf. IronPython etc.
21:25:17 <fizzie> 1970 kilometres was the whole Kemi-Kiruna-Svolvær-Henningsvær-Uttakleiv-Hamnøy-Reine-Å-Moskenes-Hamnøy-Vikten-Nusfjord-Krystad-Hamnøy-Kiruna-Kemi trip. (Skipped some midway stops there.)
21:25:21 <qfr> Oh yeah true, I just realised those probably already work with Mono
21:25:32 <oerjan> although there _do_ seem to be several in Vesterålen...
21:25:50 <oklofok> fizzie: did you walk?
21:26:09 <fizzie> oklofok: Not much.
21:26:40 <oklofok> well i just meant that trip
21:26:42 <elliott> I never walked.
21:26:49 <oklofok> not your extracurricular activities
21:27:05 <fizzie> Walking wasn't included in that number, anyway, since it came from the car's distancometer.
21:27:15 <fizzie> The whatsitcalledometer.
21:27:19 <oklofok> oh you used a car
21:27:20 <fizzie> Odourmeter.
21:27:29 <oklofok> it's called ameterometer
21:27:33 <oklofok> *a meterometer
21:28:35 <fizzie> oerjan: I zoomed maps.google.com to the general region where we were, and wrote "Bø" in the search field. It showed me the borders of Bolivia.
21:29:12 <fizzie> (I think this whole "show the borders" thing is new-ish.)
21:29:18 <elliott> Bølivia
21:31:26 <qfr> http://www.reddit.com/r/lolphp/comments/ps6x5/0x0_wat/
21:32:06 <oerjan> fizzie: fancy
21:33:48 <fizzie> Of the views, I kinda liked that one beach most. It kinda had a funny combination of "one of those warm places down south" sand-beach, and then the snow: http://zem.fi/~fis/beach.jpg
21:34:18 <elliott> That's the most Finnish beach ever.
21:34:32 <fizzie> The most Finnish beach in Norway.
21:34:53 <fizzie> We don't have anything as mountainy as those things that come out of the water, really.
21:35:02 <elliott> http://www.reddit.com/r/lolphp/comments/s6kqy/when_references_go_bad/ heh
21:35:05 <elliott> fizzie: Well, same thing.
21:35:06 <qfr> elliott yep
21:35:09 <qfr> That one was disturbing
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21:37:32 <Sgeo> "MintChip misses the point of digital currency"
21:37:52 <Sgeo> Well, if you're a fan of starting your own currency independent of government...
21:38:02 <Sgeo> I'd say the article misses the point of MintChip
21:38:09 <Sgeo> http://www.forbes.com/sites/jonmatonis/2012/04/12/mintchip-misses-the-point-of-digital-currency/
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