00:24:12 <elliott> RocketJSquirrel: An excellent example of Finnish.
00:25:47 <elliott> Wait, that's actual Finnish?
00:25:52 <elliott> I deal only in the finest fake Finnish.
00:26:12 <RocketJSquirrel> You'll have to ask fizzie if it's real, but Google Translate thinks it is X-D
00:26:56 <elliott> Then I said, 'porridge? Hull Are you? "Oh ...
00:27:19 <RocketJSquirrel> It mistranslated it because I cut off the word "hullu" (to match the original quote)
00:27:46 <elliott> RocketJSquirrel: What's the quote?
00:28:33 <elliott> RocketJSquirrel: Don'tn't I?
00:29:15 <RocketJSquirrel> elliott: "And then I said, 'Oatmeal? Are you craz–?!' Oh ..."
00:29:30 <shachaf> RocketJSquirrel: Crazy about oatmeal?
00:30:31 <shachaf> RocketJSquirrel: I wish I spoke Finnish. :-(
00:30:52 <shachaf> RocketJSquirrel: WELL YOU'RE NOT A CITIZEN OF FINLAND, ARE YOU?
00:31:05 <elliott> http://stackoverflow.com/a/4247184/1097181 I like how this answer is wasted on a question that *doesn't even contain the word "number"*.
00:31:23 <elliott> I mean, come on. How hard can it be to find a question with "number" in it to put that on?
00:31:32 <HackEgo> Finland is a European country. There are two people in Finland, and at least five of them are in this channel. Corun drives the bus.
00:35:52 <elliott> `learn Europe is a Finlandic country.
00:35:58 <elliott> `learn Europe is a Finlandic country. More details as they become available.
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02:37:52 <zzo38> Is it a proper comonad? data LeftCo m f x = forall z. LeftCo (f (m z) -> x) (f z); fmap f (LeftCo x y) = LeftCo (f . x) y; duplicate (LeftCo x y) = LeftCo (LeftCo (x . fmap join)) y; extract (LeftCo x y) = x (return <$> y);
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07:08:40 <Sgeo> http://conservapedia.com/RINO
07:09:05 <Sgeo> "A less-used term is cafeteria conservative, for a person who picks and chooses which conservative principles to believe, as a person might choose foods in a cafeteria instead of ordering the full-course menu selected by the chef at most restaurants."
07:09:17 <Sgeo> Clearly, it is SINFUL to not tow the party line on every single issue.
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07:37:19 <kmc> why are you reading conservapedia
07:37:24 <kmc> trolling by proxy is still trolling
07:37:37 <kmc> "my friend says haskell gives you aids, i think he's wrong but plz give a detailed rebuttal"
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07:59:24 <Sgeo> http://www.tektoonics.com/etc/parody/fundyath.html
07:59:37 <Sgeo> How is that website so fundamentally broken that it can't process a GET?
08:03:13 <ais523> failing GET is pretty broken, indeed
08:03:13 <lambdabot> ais523: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
08:03:51 <Madoka-Kaname> Pretty sure that's it's way of saying "403 forbidden"
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08:58:51 <kmc> GET isn't webscale
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10:06:31 <NSQX> !bf +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.
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10:07:03 <NSQX> !bf ++++++++[>+++++++>++++++++++++>+++++++++++++>++++++++++++++<<<<]>++.>>>++.<<+.>+.>----.<---.>++++++.<<.
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10:27:00 <HackEgo> 139) <Gregor> alise: I suck at coding related.
10:27:08 <HackEgo> 456) <oklopol> you know that thing in the movies where they put a pillow on someone's face and try to suffocate them <oklopol> that doesn't work. <oklopol> we tried that with my ex once, but we just couldn't kill each other that way
10:27:15 <HackEgo> 445) <oklofok> mixing drinks together is like taking all of mozart's works and listening to all of them at once <oklofok> and in general a drink - and most foods - are kind like taking a song and then just taking the average of the notes and listening to it for three minutes. <oklofok> olsner: the point is you don't have to be the composer yourself <oklofok> not everyone knows what sequences of drinks taste the best
10:27:36 <HackEgo> 678) <Phantom_Hoover> Life expectancy now is a function of whether you go berserk or not.
10:27:48 <HackEgo> 664) <yrlnry> I personally use while ("Cogito, ergo sum") { ... } because since that is a priori true, it is true in all possible universes, and therefore ensures maximum portability.
10:28:04 <HackEgo> *poof* <Gregor> alise: I suck at coding related.
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11:01:39 <ais523> hmm, Raymond Chen says that Windows 3.1 was cooperative not preëmptive, so I guess that's a reliable source for my opinion after all
11:12:02 <fizzie> You could also just Wikipedia, it's [insert large number here]% likely to be correct.
11:13:13 <fizzie> Well, or Microsoft. http://support.microsoft.com/kb/117567 - "Under Windows 3.x and Windows for Workgroups 3.x, 16-bit applications multitask cooperatively by frequently yielding control of the CPU to other programs."
11:13:42 <fizzie> But then again, what would *they* know about Windows.
11:17:55 <ais523> someone was telling me, in here I think, that it was preëmptive, even though I remember it being cooperative having written programs for it
11:25:48 <fizzie> Which rule is responsible for making it preëmptive but not coöperative?
11:26:16 <fizzie> Where "it" is no longer Windows 3.x.
11:29:30 <kmc> well in the real world you do see "coöperative"
11:29:42 <kmc> "preëmptive" is a nice pun on that, which went over my head :/
11:30:41 <kmc> but afaik both are legitimate use of the diaeresis
11:35:05 <kmc> not to be confused with diuresis
11:49:49 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.27164
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12:28:48 <ais523> oh wow, that actually worked
12:28:56 <ais523> I had a bunch of messages in my inbox that I wanted in mbox format
12:29:14 <ais523> I couldn't find an export command, so I just tried dragging and dropping them to a text editor
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12:47:19 <itidus21> Haluan olla ensimminen tervetulleeksi uuden suomalaisista yliherruuteen.
12:53:16 <itidus21> i am only using google translate of course
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14:38:55 <nortti> "sh: ls: not found" aw shit
14:39:18 <nortti> "sh: busybox: not found"
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14:46:45 <Ngevd> sed lingua latina repulsit
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14:54:12 <Taneb> Suomi on mestari ...
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14:56:03 <nortti> eli ketkäs kaikki tällä kanavalla oli suomalaisia
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15:40:47 <itidus21> Joku liitetty thn toiseen kanavaan. Se on hieman esoteerinen mielestni. http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=en&tl=fi&u=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FBASIC_Programming
15:42:49 <nortti> itidus21: käytitkö google kääntäjää vai onko itse kirjoitettu viesti?
15:44:36 <nortti> it translates to "Something pasted to this another channel. I think it bit esoteric."
15:44:41 <elliott> nortti: on kiva kaksikymmentäneljätuntiaikakausitämänhetkinen!
15:44:41 <lambdabot> elliott: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
15:49:32 <nortti> elliott: "is fun twentyfourhourscurrentimeperiod"
15:50:03 <elliott> nortti: no, "have a nice day", you need to go back to finnish lessons
15:51:06 <elliott> that just makes it worse : (
15:52:10 <nortti> itidus21: "OK to there via hand"
15:52:12 <elliott> ais523: hmm, someone replying to "is this really esoteric?" with "I suppose that depends on your definition of esoteric..." is a good sign the language isn't actually esoteric, right?
15:52:37 <ais523> elliott: moderately good, not perfect
15:53:10 <elliott> http://www.codehosting.net/blog/BlogEngine/post/Improvements-to-DALIS.aspx it pretty much just looks like BASIC to me
16:02:30 <elliott> "It is still true that any propositional statement can be proven or disproven in constructive propositional logic" err, this isn't true, is it?
16:02:36 <elliott> oh, I guess it is in the first-order variant djinn uses
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17:12:03 <elliott> [[According to a recent blog post, Apple discovered that Microsoft had planted a spy in their organisation, and deliberately leaked a copy of obsolete System 7 source code, machine-translated to INTERCAL, claiming it was the latest build of OS X 10.2. Bill Gates initially fell for the trick and seriously told his programmers to incorporate the INTERCAL code into Windows Vista. JIP | Talk 05:39, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
17:12:04 <elliott> Due to INTERCAL's limited I/O capabilities, this seems unlikely. I can't imagine anyone writing an OS in INTERCAL-72, and neither C-INTERCAL or CLC-INTERCAL can do graphics as far as I know, so presumably this is a new secret flavour of INTERCAL? --ais523 09:49, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
17:12:04 <elliott> Yes, it seems pretty clear that the blog was meant to be a joke. This is probably why blogs aren't considered reliable sources; I'd recommend not putting this information in the article. --ais523 12:50, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
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17:19:37 <olsner> hmm, "In recognition of your contributions to Stack Overflow, we’d like to invite you to create a professional profile on Stack Overflow Careers 2.0."
17:19:56 <olsner> I have answered like two questions, but apparently that's a contribution to recognize
17:20:25 <elliott> olsner: I got one of those too.
17:20:31 <elliott> I... think they send them out to a lot of people.
17:20:47 * elliott made an account and then didn't actually make a profile. To stick it to the man.
17:23:07 <ais523> hmm, are they challenging LinkedIn, I wonder?
17:23:42 <elliott> ais523: I don't think you can "challenge" LinkedIn, seeing as I am not aware of a single person on the planet who likes LinkedIn.
17:23:49 <elliott> Anyway, Stack Overflow careers has been around for years.
17:24:02 <elliott> It doesn't have any of the silly social networking stuff AFAIK.
17:24:45 <olsner> I suspect that the ones who evidently make money on running linkedin kind of like it
17:25:07 <olsner> maybe recruiters like it too, even though it's mostly a device for sucking money out of recruiters
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17:30:44 <Phantom_Hoover> OMG, the Humble Introversion Bundle came with Steam keys!
17:31:12 <nortti> can I have a link to the blog post?
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18:05:48 <Sgeo> Ngevd, you haven't been here for Homestuck Updates. Just check if there are any unread updates
18:05:57 <Sgeo> (Or variously I haven't been here)
18:06:26 <Ngevd> I get the RSS feed, which tends to be a few minutes slower than you, but I get them anyway
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18:12:56 <monqy> do I have a reputation :(
18:13:07 <monqy> I thought that was shachaf!
18:15:27 <elliott> olsner: monqy has given up the sin of excessive hi
18:16:31 <Ngevd> just how hi do you need to be to even do something like that
18:16:56 <monqy> I wonder what old old monqy was like
18:17:16 <Ngevd> As hold as two hills
18:17:34 <monqy> maybe he has grey hair and wrinkles
18:17:37 <monqy> old people have that right
18:18:12 <shachaf> Old people have a lot of things right.
18:20:34 <shachaf> monqy: Is new monqy even a monqy?
18:20:45 <olsner> new monqy is wrinkly due to recently being born, old monqy is wrinkly for the opposite reason
18:20:56 <shachaf> monnqy: Is new monqy Primate of All England?
18:21:06 <olsner> there's probably a monqy somewhere being wrinkly due to having taken a bath too
18:23:04 <elliott> note to self: Apr 2 at 17:15
18:23:25 <shachaf> note to elliott: Jun 09 at 13:22
18:23:31 <olsner> elliott: self is not here right now, maybe you want to use @tell
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18:24:09 <shachaf> @tell Taneb how predictable !
18:24:23 <monqy> what have I done :(
18:24:35 <shachaf> monqy: what have you done :(
18:28:09 <elliott> http://stackoverflow.com/revisions/10231231/1
18:31:24 <Sgeo> There exist "Mystery" articles on Conservapedia
18:32:38 <Sgeo> http://conservapedia.com/Category:Mystery
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18:36:58 <elliott> "It's not claimed to be the monad implementation of the state type, just equivalent to it. Actual compilers implement the state monad more efficiently (that's why there is no accessible construtor for it), but more complicated. – leftaroundabout 3 hours ago"
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18:45:24 <elliott> RocketJSquirrel: Heyyyyy now.
18:45:29 <elliott> RocketJSquirrel: People actually use UHC.
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18:46:35 <elliott> RocketJSquirrel: Better than D, which has three compilers, none of which work :P
18:47:01 * elliott wishes RocketJSquirrel still did D so he could use things like that.
18:47:24 <RocketJSquirrel> Well, to be fair, it's more like three, each of which have two incompatible versions.
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18:58:34 <Sgeo> RocketJSquirrel, your JIT is the thing that's surprisingly portable?
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18:59:54 <olsner> Sgeo: yes, that's why the surprisingly portable thing has his name on it and is described as a JIT
19:00:45 <zzo38> Is that program available by now?
19:01:21 -!- RocketJSquirrel has set topic: Suomi on ottanut haltuunsa tämän kanavan | Wooh Gregor Richards is an egomaniac wooh http://ioccc.org/years.html#2011_richards | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/.
19:03:23 <nortti> Suomi on ottanut kanavan haltuun ja silti puhutaan englantia?
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19:04:06 <RocketJSquirrel> nortti: Because even the Finnish aren't willing to use their craaazy language too much.
19:05:23 <nortti> why is it crazy? Lento§uihkuturbiiniapulaismekaanikkoaliupseerioppilas
19:05:56 -!- elliott has set topic: Gregor Richards loses IOCCC; "worst submission ever", say judges | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/.
19:06:05 <olsner> apparently, finnish is my default language on google translate now
19:06:11 <elliott> RocketJSquirrel: I like how their Makefile is Creative Commons-licensed.
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19:08:25 <elliott> fizzie: Remember how your channel thing had online teletext???
19:08:29 <elliott> SO DO WE http://www.ceefax.tv/txtmaster.php?page=101&subpage=2&channel=bbc1
19:08:56 <fizzie> I saw something about the end of ceefax or something somewhere.
19:09:05 <elliott> Yes, it's dying with analogue.
19:10:19 <fizzie> Ah, page 697 is related.
19:10:58 <elliott> SOAK UP THE FOREIGN CULTURE!!!
19:11:13 <fizzie> Fortunately "red button".
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19:12:01 <elliott> "As part of this process, Ceefax will disappear from your screens."
19:12:08 <elliott> Well, it's more direct than most shutdown announcements.
19:13:39 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: In October.
19:13:52 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Once analogue shuts off.
19:14:15 <fizzie> Incidentally, we're switching from our current "there's a set price you need to pay if you have a TV set" model to a "public TV service is funded by a specific, progressively-graded tax you have to pay no matter what" model, so I might be digging up my DVB stuff from storage, given that we'd anyway be paying for the privilege.
19:15:06 <fizzie> There used to be more context in teletext, here, all kinds of viewer letters and whatnot.
19:15:13 <RocketJSquirrel> <-- so confused by non-private models of television broadcasting X-D
19:15:20 <elliott> RocketJSquirrel: ceefax, v. to see facts
19:15:43 <elliott> fizzie: In the UK, we have the former model, except the regulators just assume that everybody owns a television.
19:15:50 <elliott> And sends you nastygrams if you don't pay them regardless.
19:16:10 <elliott> Also they have scary adverts on TV warning you about how their DATABASE will let them CATCH YOU if you don't pay with ominous music.
19:16:31 <Phantom_Hoover> (Ominous music is a widely-accepted fiat currency in the UK.)
19:16:55 <RocketJSquirrel> See, with the American model, at least we don't have that ... just nine minutes of ads per every twenty-one minutes of content (and/or credits)
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19:17:02 <fizzie> Oh, they do send letters for everyone here too. Though they do say "you can disregard this letter if you don't have a system capable for watching TV" in them.
19:17:14 <elliott> RocketJSquirrel: By "advert", I mean "thing that appears in-between programs".
19:17:23 <elliott> 'Cuz you see THE BBC DOESN'T HAVE ADVERTS IN THE MIDDLE OF PROGRAMS
19:17:28 <fizzie> We're all red in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Television_licence
19:17:28 <nortti> fizzie: actually if I remember correctly you only have to pay if you have radio, TV or computer withvinternet access (potential tv). Doesn't need to be functional though
19:17:55 <elliott> RocketJSquirrel: I know you know, but feel the need to point it out to make you feel inferior.
19:17:57 <elliott> <fizzie> Oh, they do send letters for everyone here too. Though they do say "you can disregard this letter if you don't have a system capable for watching TV" in them.
19:18:12 <Phantom_Hoover> <elliott> RocketJSquirrel: By "advert", I mean "thing that appears in-between programs".
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19:18:17 <fizzie> nortti: Isn't that pretty much what I said? And you don't need to pay for a radio receiver.
19:18:19 <elliott> fizzie: I gather here it's more like "If you DON'T own a TV and you're still reading this letter, then MAYBE YOU SHOULD PROVE IT??? Otherwise we'll keep being nasty."
19:18:35 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Hmm, really?
19:18:43 <elliott> I swear I've seen them on the BBC too.
19:18:51 <elliott> Well, whatever, why are you letting facts get in the way?
19:18:54 <Phantom_Hoover> I don't know, now that I think about it it really makes no sense.
19:19:04 <elliott> Actually, you might be right...
19:19:27 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Well, erm, you need a TV license to watch 4 too, I think.
19:19:41 <elliott> Because if you can watch 4, you have the ability to watch the BBC, so you have to pay even if you don't want to.
19:19:58 <RocketJSquirrel> elliott, Phantom_Hoover: The really funny thing about how American TV works is that in some of the "premiere" stations that you have to pay your cable company extra to get, they don't air any ads, but to allow their shows to be picked up for syndication, they're still 21 or 42 minutes long :)
19:20:00 <elliott> (Don't all the terrestrial channels get some money from the license fee?)
19:20:01 <Phantom_Hoover> But most of the licence fee goes to the BBC (although 4 gets some of it).
19:20:05 <elliott> (WHY IS THIS COUNTRY SO COMPLICATED)
19:20:49 <fizzie> Or a computer with Internet access if you don't have some sort of a video-over-the-net thing for it. (They used to have a fancy "send the DVB TV streams over multicast USP" IPTV setup at the university student village.)
19:20:55 <Phantom_Hoover> RocketJSquirrel, comment on superfluousness of 5th channel.
19:21:09 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Well, to be fair, everyone hates ITV too.
19:21:48 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Did you know that ITV4 is the greatest simulation of ennui ever created?
19:22:04 <Phantom_Hoover> Anyway, the BBC's adlessness gets annoying when there's a film or something else long on and you never have the chance for tea.
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19:22:27 <elliott> They should just have intermissions.
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19:22:40 <elliott> Like, show a kitten for three minutes every now and then.
19:22:45 <Phantom_Hoover> Probably both, and AFAIK ITV2 is just ITV with a time delay and rearranged.
19:22:48 <olsner> BBC doesn't have tea breaks? O.O
19:23:32 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Nah, ITV2 is ITV1 except crappier.
19:23:44 <elliott> I think they do a lot of repeating of ITV1 when they don't have something worse to show.
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19:24:20 <elliott> "but is required by its licence to broadcast at least 100 hours of new arts and music programmes, 110 hours of new factual programmes and premier 20 international films each year"
19:24:29 <elliott> I like how BBC Four's license explicitly requires it to be a snob.
19:25:59 * elliott batters up his oh americanism burnt anus.
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19:27:25 <nortti> sorry if this question is stupid but can I staticaly link LGPL library to my WTFPL program?
19:27:37 <fizzie> RocketJSquirrel: Also this one Finnish channel (SuomiTV) is changing to "FOX TV", becoming part of a "FOX International Channels", which is part of the Fox Entertainment Group, which I suppose is one of your things?
19:27:40 <elliott> If your program is C, yes.
19:27:43 <elliott> That's the point of the LGPL.
19:27:51 <elliott> If it's not C, depends on the implementation details of your compiler!
19:28:08 <elliott> With GHC, LGPL = GPL because of its compilation model.
19:29:16 <elliott> Except it's just the American one.
19:29:27 <RocketJSquirrel> fizzie: FOX is the one that presents conservative rabble as news and for entertainment allows some shows to run for twenty-two years while good ones get canceled in the first seasons.
19:29:34 <fizzie> I don't think ours will be "real FOX", though.
19:29:37 <Phantom_Hoover> Pretty sure there aren't many countries the long arm of Murdoch has escaped.
19:30:46 <Phantom_Hoover> The irony is that its news has an Iranian conservative slant.
19:31:15 <elliott> "Cameron should have just followed history and flogged some seats in the Lords, if they still have value! precedents of centuries ." --Rupert Murdoch
19:31:42 <elliott> "@dafta420 Agreed." --Rupert Murdoch, replying to "Dafta The Truth Duck"
19:32:13 <fizzie> They're not going to be showing "FOX News", for example, I don't think. At least this page says they're still just sending the STT news broadcast. But they will start some Fox Entertainment shows, like that zombie thing.
19:32:19 <elliott> "@rupertmurdoch" --Rupert Murdoch, replying to "Rupert Murdoch" (http://twitter.com/#!/rupertmurdoch/status/169598763248267266)
19:33:31 <calamari> I was hoping it would have died by now
19:35:26 <fizzie> I wouldn't be surprised if it was in fact still growing, if you e.g. count numbers of tweets.
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19:37:46 <elliott> What's the third field in an http access log?
19:37:54 <elliott> It's usually a -, as in "ip - -"
19:38:02 <zzo38> elliott: It depends how it is configured; look up the configuration.
19:39:00 <elliott> zzo38: I think the format is standard...
19:39:43 <elliott> RocketJSquirrel: I have one >_>
19:40:28 <RocketJSquirrel> The "hyphen" in the output indicates that the requested piece of information is not available. In this case, the information that is not available is the RFC 1413 identity of the client determined by identd on the clients machine. This information is highly unreliable and should almost never be used except on tightly controlled internal networks. Apache httpd will not even attempt to determine this information unless IdentityCheck is set to On.
19:40:53 <elliott> Soo... why would it ever be @^Y@+,@~q|wpmymzz2()2|pq{jvk@-1*,@lvo.(,1-+*1)+1&,@'/ in an nginx log >_>
19:40:57 <elliott> Pretty sure nginx doesn't make identd requests.
19:41:14 <RocketJSquirrel> Is it literally that string, or are you just implying that it's nonsense?
19:41:37 <fizzie> RocketJSquirrel: Isn't %l the second field in Apache "combined" format, not third?
19:41:56 <RocketJSquirrel> Right, just noticed that my format was a bit askew since I prepent the vhost.
19:42:08 <RocketJSquirrel> This is the userid of the person requesting the document as determined by HTTP authentication. The same value is typically provided to CGI scripts in the REMOTE_USER environment variable. If the status code for the request (see below) is 401, then this value should not be trusted because the user is not yet authenticated. If the document is not password protected, this part will be "-" just like the previous one.
19:42:27 <elliott> I can assure you those documents are not password-protected...
19:42:46 <RocketJSquirrel> Maybe nginx records a given user-ID even if there's no authentication?
19:45:10 <fizzie> nginx "combined" format always has a dash as second, and $remote_user as third; it doesn't exactly list details when that's set, but I guess it's possible it gets set if the client sends an auth header while the page doesn't care.
19:46:13 * elliott wonders who's doing that :P
19:47:50 <RocketJSquirrel> elliott: Did I just manage to drop some nonsense in the logs?
19:48:15 <elliott> RocketJSquirrel: What URL?
19:48:57 <elliott> No entry in the access log.
19:49:01 <elliott> Or in the error log for that matter.
19:49:04 <elliott> How did you make the request?
19:49:14 <elliott> 128.211.1.48 - - [19/Apr/2012:19:48:48 +0000] "GET /wiki/Esolang_talk:Community_portal HTTP/1.1" 200 8000 "http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page" "Mozill
19:49:15 <elliott> a/5.0 (X11; Linux i686 on x86_64; rv:11.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/11.0"
19:49:58 <lambdabot> Local time for elliott is Thu Apr 19 20:50:30
19:50:09 <elliott> 128.211.1.48 - helloworld [19/Apr/2012:19:49:54 +0000] "GET /wiki/Esolang_talk:Community_portal HTTP/1.1" 200 21252 "-" "curl/7.19.6 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) libcurl/7.19.6 GnuTLS/2.8.5 zlib/1.2.3"
19:50:17 <elliott> Wonder what happens if you include spaces.
19:50:26 <elliott> ais523: hey, it's been a month since the featured language changed
19:50:39 <elliott> ais523: any opinions on which one we should go with next?
19:50:44 <elliott> RocketJSquirrel: 128.211.1.48 - I am a cruel and vicious human being [19/Apr/2012:19:50:34 +0000] "GET /wiki/Esolang_talk:Community_portal HTTP/1.1" 200 21252 "-" "curl/7.19.6 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) libcurl/7.19.6 GnuTLS/2.8.5 zlib/1.2.3"
19:50:51 <elliott> RocketJSquirrel: Try including a space and a [ :P
19:50:55 <ais523> elliott: too tired for opinions
19:51:38 <elliott> Deadfish, Eodermdrome, Glass, Kipple, Sortle, and Unlambda
19:51:57 <elliott> Kipple's article needs a bit of work (uses <pre> for table, etc.), so it's probably not a good choice
19:53:41 <elliott> RocketJSquirrel: 128.211.1.48 - - [lolwut] [19/Apr/2012:19:52:51 +0000] "GET /wiki/Esolang_talk:Community_portal HTTP/1.1" 200 21252 "-" "curl/7.19.6 (x86_64-pc-linux-
19:53:41 <elliott> gnu) libcurl/7.19.6 GnuTLS/2.8.5 zlib/1.2.3"
19:53:53 <elliott> RocketJSquirrel: Congrats, you have preemptively ruined any attempts I might make to parse the logfiles :P
19:54:44 <elliott> RocketJSquirrel: Hey, I'm tryina' feature Glass, but you need to help me flesh out the main page text.
19:54:48 <elliott> '''[[Glass]]''' is a stack-based, object-oriented esoteric programming language invented by [[Gregor Richards]]. It combines an unintuitive postfix notation with heavy object-orientation, requiring extensive juggling of a main stack combined with its object-oriented structure. No other language that the author knows of is implemented like this, because it would be idiotic. {{more|Glass}}
19:55:56 <RocketJSquirrel> elliott: btw, you should consider submitting a bug report to nginx ...
19:56:49 <elliott> '''[[Glass]]''' is a stack-based, object-oriented esoteric programming language invented by [[Gregor Richards]]. It combines an unintuitive postfix notation, inspired by the low-level language [[wikipedia:Forth|]], with heavy object-orientation, in the style of high-level languages such as [[wikipedia:Smalltalk|]]. The result requires extensive juggling of a main stack combined with its object-oriented structure. No other language that the author
19:56:49 <elliott> knows of is implemented like this, because it would be idiotic. {{more|Glass}}
19:56:58 <elliott> I don't know if you were actually inspired by Forth, though :P
19:58:11 <elliott> RocketJSquirrel: That feels a bit repetitive though >_>
19:58:17 <RocketJSquirrel> "Although weakly object oriented, having no data hiding or inheritance, it includes classes, methods and instances, and encourages the use of these features by encapsulating most typically-fundamental features, such as arithmetic, into methods of classes."
19:59:05 <nortti> what was the name of the distro of that crazy guy who still maintains libc4
19:59:33 <elliott> RocketJSquirrel: How about
19:59:34 <elliott> Glass is a stack-based esoteric programming language invented by Gregor Richards. Although weakly object oriented, having no data hiding or inheritance, it includes classes, methods and instances, and encourages the use of these features by encapsulating most typically-fundamental features, such as arithmetic, into methods of classes. No other language that the author knows of is implemented like this, because it would be idiotic. (more…)
20:00:10 <RocketJSquirrel> The "No other language that the author knows of" bit is about OO+stack, not about OO+arithmetic-in-OO, which isn't so unusual.
20:00:14 -!- MoALTz has joined.
20:00:43 <elliott> RocketJSquirrel: I don't like how the first mention of OO there is behind a "weakly" and qualifiers, though.
20:00:52 <elliott> Seems like that can be omitted from a front-page intro.
20:01:34 <nortti> "new kernel source tarballs are over 300mb unpacked"
20:01:46 <elliott> RocketJSquirrel: OK, how about this: '''[[Glass]]''' is a stack-based esoteric programming language invented by [[Gregor Richards]]. It is an object-oriented language, including classes, methods and instances, and encourages the use of these features by encapsulating most typically-fundamental features, such as arithmetic, into methods of classes. The result requires extensive juggling of a main stack, similar to [[wikipedia:Forth|]], combined wi
20:01:46 <elliott> th heavy object-orientation. No other language that the author knows of is implemented like this, because it would be idiotic. {{more|Glass}}
20:03:33 <elliott> RocketJSquirrel: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page Tada
20:04:45 <nortti> mastodon linux looks pretty awesome
20:05:42 <nortti> if it just used sonething more modern suck as 2.4 as kernel I would probably switch to it
20:05:50 <elliott> Now http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page contains a previously-featuredlist \o/
20:08:24 <fizzie> RocketJSquirrel: Did you try out an embedded newline in the username?
20:09:05 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
20:09:51 <elliott> fizzie: Is there a nice Unicode character that looks like a tick in a circle or such?
20:10:31 <fizzie> I don't know about a circle; there are some official checkbox-mark-things.
20:11:12 <fizzie> And of course you could have a combining circle around a tick.
20:11:33 <elliott> Right, but I want a filled-circle-with-hollow-check.
20:13:15 <RocketJSquirrel> fizzie: Ohwait, the username is just a header, so newlines wouldn't work anyway :(
20:13:24 <fizzie> RocketJSquirrel: It's base64'd.
20:13:47 <fizzie> RocketJSquirrel: In order to make any kind of funky password header-safe.
20:14:03 <nortti> "You should not be using libc4 for anything any more. If you do use it, we will hunt you down and execute you as an example to others. (Not really, but you get the point...)"
20:14:03 <fizzie> The header contents are "user:pass", base64'd.
20:17:45 <elliott> RocketJSquirrel: Take a look at the top-right of http://esolangs.org/wiki/Glass 8D
20:17:52 * elliott makes it actually go in the top area like it's supposed to.
20:19:14 <RocketJSquirrel> elliott: That is the ugliest check mark I've seen in my entire life.
20:19:27 <elliott> RocketJSquirrel: Screenshot?
20:20:26 <elliott> Yeah, I moved the CSS to common.css.
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20:24:47 <elliott> fizzie: How does the icon on http://esolangs.org/wiki/Glass look to you?
20:25:16 -!- Frooxius has joined.
20:26:15 <RocketJSquirrel> I think I only have that symbol in a bitmap font on this work machine >_>
20:30:30 <elliott> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Glass?useskin=monobook ;; lol
20:33:45 <Sgeo> I have a math problem I want a computer answer to
20:33:52 <fizzie> It looks rectangular to this borwser.
20:33:57 <Sgeo> Out of habit, I reach for GHCi rather than any Common Lisp thing
20:34:03 <Sgeo> How am I ever going to learn CL?
20:35:55 <elliott> RocketJSquirrel: What browser you using?
20:37:17 <fizzie> Uh, this was this N900 not-very-new-Gecko-based "MicroB" thing. I'm kinda resting. Looked similar still.
20:37:57 <elliott> Sgeo: How does the icon on http://esolangs.org/wiki/Glass look to you?
20:38:21 <Sgeo> What is the checkmark for?
20:38:45 <fizzie> elliott: Oh, right, now it circulatified.
20:39:07 <nortti> also rectangular in opera mini. And MicroB uses gecko 1.9.2 (Same as Firefox 3.6)
20:39:30 <elliott> Sgeo: Hover over and/or click it.
20:39:53 <Sgeo> Ok, so it's a featured language
20:40:03 <Sgeo> What am I supposed to be noticing, exactly?
20:40:28 <fizzie> http://zem.fi/~fis/checky.png
20:40:44 <Sgeo> Mine looks a bit different
20:41:05 <Sgeo> Mine is completely contained within the circle, it does not touch the edge
20:41:11 <elliott> Yes, fizzie has bad fonts.
20:41:15 <elliott> Sgeo: Screenshot would be appreciated
20:41:20 <elliott> It's just all CSSy so there's a lot of possible variation.
20:42:42 <Sgeo> http://i.imgur.com/Dhfvz.png
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20:47:24 <Ngevd> Wow, my suggestion was chosen to be the Featured Language?
20:47:45 <Ngevd> Even though I did nothing to create the language!
20:48:49 <Ngevd> Glass was created in 2005.
20:48:51 <elliott> Ngevd: How does the check icon on the article look to you?
20:49:04 <Ngevd> It makes it look fairtrade?
20:49:09 <itidus21> Ngevd: and have you know gregor in 2005?
20:49:23 <elliott> (A screenshot would be helpful.)
20:49:35 <Ngevd> I first heard about esolangs in 2007 at the earliest
20:51:00 <Ngevd> I don't believe I have ever met Gregor, and if I did, it would have most likely been in 1998 when I was 3
20:52:22 <Ngevd> TO IMAGE HOSTING WEBSITE
20:53:03 <Ngevd> http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff508/Taneb/featuredarticleHUEG.png
20:53:38 <Ngevd> I really need to use those news extensions sometime
20:54:50 <elliott> Oh come on, you have the same bitmap font?
20:55:15 <elliott> Ngevd: What OS do you use?
20:55:24 <Ngevd> At the moment, Windows 7
20:55:38 <elliott> Ngevd: Can I have a higher-resolution screenshot? :P
20:57:02 <itidus21> http://oi44.tinypic.com/2r3l6jk.jpg
20:57:58 <elliott> "Radio buttons were named after the physical buttons used on older car radios to select preset stations – when one of the buttons was pressed, other buttons would pop out, leaving the pressed button the only button in the "pushed in" position."
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20:58:00 <elliott> RocketJSquirrel: Did you know that???
20:58:47 * Sgeo o.Os at Windows XP
20:59:09 <elliott> I mean, I knew car buttons did that.
20:59:14 <elliott> But I didn't realise that's where "radio button" came from.
21:00:28 -!- Ngevd has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
21:00:42 <itidus21> Sgeo: notice how i tried to emulate the general style of the other screenshots :P
21:02:54 <Phantom_Hoover> Dude you know that I get a kernel crash when I try to boot my Arch partition.
21:03:52 <elliott> I meant re: <Phantom_Hoover> oh god you're talking about windows
21:12:16 <zzo38> If you have any games to qualify for CGA Collection, then please notify me about it. I already have many games but you can add more too
21:12:20 <nortti> Phantom_Hoover: try pressing e at grub and adding init=/bin/sh at the end
21:12:46 <nortti> of kernel boot arguments
21:13:33 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: That command will wipe your hard drive permanently: so yse.
21:13:41 <elliott> Note: elliott cannot be trusted.
21:13:51 <elliott> This statement is a lie, but that one wasn't.
21:13:55 <elliott> Everything I say is false. This statement is true.
21:14:42 -!- elliott has changed nick to everyonewhoisnte.
21:14:55 -!- everyonewhoisnte has changed nick to corpseofeveryone.
21:14:59 -!- corpseofeveryone has changed nick to whoisntelliott.
21:15:01 -!- whoisntelliott has changed nick to elliott.
21:16:07 <nortti> Phantom_Hoover: init boot argument specifies init process. If it will boot the problem may be caused bt broken /bin/init
21:16:51 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Don't trust nortti. He is not an antelope. Ask the sky.
21:16:59 <Phantom_Hoover> Hmm. The errors that show don't seem to fit what I'd expect there, but I can't show anyone the errors without a camera and I'm too lazy to take photos.
21:17:36 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving).
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21:37:11 <nortti> what alternative c compiler do you suggest.
21:40:44 <nortti> clang looks interesting. Can it build a working linux system
21:42:22 <elliott> It could build a sorta-working kernel at one point, IIRC.
21:42:39 <elliott> But nothing except gcc and icc can build a fully-functional kernel, IIRC, and I believe icc requires patches.
21:45:44 <zzo38> GCC can compile to some targets which clang doesn't have. I asked them to add those (and other) targets to LLVM but they didn't do so.
21:51:15 <ion> http://www.dianaleewhatley.com/Inside-RDA-1024x768.jpg http://www.dianaleewhatley.com/whatwallworks.htm
21:53:22 <elliott> ion: FINALLY a decent wallpaper.
21:53:29 <elliott> http://www.dianaleewhatley.com/bubble-v2-1024x768.jpg
21:53:48 <elliott> http://www.dianaleewhatley.com/Ghost09-Blue.jpg jesus christ
21:54:25 <ion> No, that’s Richard Dean Anderson as well.
21:55:28 <olsner> someone likes richard dean anderson
21:57:14 <elliott> RocketJSquirrel: Better than Ghost09-Blue.jpg?
21:58:20 <olsner> oh, so when your nick was Friendship, that was a reference to Friendship is Magic?
21:58:20 <ion> I must admit that’s pretty good.
21:58:48 <olsner> spotting my little pony references is not what I do best
21:59:11 -!- nortti has quit (Quit: nortti).
21:59:12 <elliott> RocketJSquirrel: OK, how about blending that with that optical illusion thing, that horrible two-colour tile thing, and Ghost09-Blue.jpg.
21:59:34 <RocketJSquirrel> elliott: The optical illusion isn't very blendable with other things.
21:59:52 <elliott> RocketJSquirrel: I see, I see, we have a quitter.
22:03:29 <RocketJSquirrel> elliott: As recompense, here is me as a pony: http://ompldr.org/vZGZ1NQ
22:05:28 <elliott> RocketJSquirrel: That's worse than the picture of your foot.
22:08:45 <olsner> how can a pony be worse than a foot?
22:11:37 <elliott> RocketJSquirrel: Where is the old Gmail theme. :(
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22:15:25 -!- Madoka-Kaname has quit (Changing host).
22:15:25 -!- Madoka-Kaname has joined.
22:15:57 <elliott> impomatic: haven't seen you around in a while
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22:17:12 <impomatic> Now I'm back to pester people about Programming Games :-P
22:17:32 <RocketJSquirrel> impomatic: You're only allowed to if you make it to top three in the BFJoust hill.
22:18:27 <elliott> impomatic: Uhh... what happened since you were last here... I took over hosting the wiki, and... Gregor became RocketJSquirrel and won the IOCCC, and that's about it.
22:18:58 <elliott> (Also, ais523 considers BF Joust a solved game now, although you might have been around for that.)
22:19:20 <RocketJSquirrel> I may switch back to Gregor at some point, probably soonish.
22:20:39 <olsner> I think it would feel weird to use my name as my IRC nick
22:20:48 <elliott> Wait, your name isn't olsner?
22:21:22 <zzo38> The WHOIS request says "salparot" in the real names field
22:22:36 <zzo38> Actually a lot of thing happened, not only that
22:23:13 <olsner> hmm, dunno if I can fix that, you are not entirely free to choose your name here... and olsner is used as a surname, which might be an obstacle
22:24:08 <olsner> but at least it's not offensive
22:24:41 <olsner> besides, I don't want to change my name to olsner
22:24:51 <impomatic> Is the FYB hill broken? report.txt is empty.
22:25:29 <elliott> impomatic: FYB is solved, yes.
22:25:38 <elliott> Someone came in here and completely broke it in like 2009, IIRC.
22:25:41 <elliott> RocketJSquirrel might remember better.
22:25:59 <zzo38> A lot of things happened; not only me, but also you
22:26:07 <elliott> `addquote <zzo38> A lot of things happened; not only me, but also you
22:26:16 <HackEgo> 839) <zzo38> A lot of things happened; not only me, but also you
22:26:57 <EgoBot> Use: !fyb <program name> <program> . Scoreboard, programs, and a description of score calculation are at http://codu.org/eso/fyb/
22:27:05 <RocketJSquirrel> !fyb why_is_the_hill_broken http://codu.org/eso/fyb/in_egobot/logicex-2.fyb
22:27:12 <EgoBot> Score for RocketJSquirrel_why_is_the_hill_broken: 32.7
22:28:37 <Madoka-Kaname> @ sets the data pointer to the instruction pointer
22:28:41 <elliott> Wait, was it Madoka-Kaname who broke it?
22:29:28 <elliott> No, I mean "broke" as in "solved".
22:29:29 <zzo38> Please tell me if you have any computer game to qualify for The CGA Collection.
22:29:33 <elliott> Like you break a cryptographic hash.
22:29:48 <Madoka-Kaname> I looked through the source code and noticed @ does dp=ip :x
22:30:29 <zzo38> And files for Internet Quiz Engine
22:30:32 <Madoka-Kaname> Which means you can plant :@@+!; over all the other program's commit instructions
22:30:34 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.14357
22:31:21 <itidus21> zzo38: 20mb hdd buried somewhere
22:31:26 <RocketJSquirrel> It's extremely impractical to place '@'s in the opponent's code.
22:31:26 <olsner> is it im/possible to break bfjoust?
22:31:29 <Madoka-Kaname> elliott, http://codu.org/eso/fyb/in_egobot/Lymia_evil.fyb
22:31:31 <zzo38> O, and what else happened, if you defect?
22:31:52 <zzo38> itidus21: What is this 20mb hdd?
22:32:02 <RocketJSquirrel> I don't really recall how FYB is broken, but that it is, and I don't really care X-D
22:32:39 <zzo38> itidus21: Still tell me what you have (even if you cannot find the actual programs)
22:32:52 <Madoka-Kaname> RocketJSquirrel, you can very reliably make a program that will almost guaranteed win against a certain targeted program.
22:33:08 <elliott> Madoka-Kaname: Uh... that's it?
22:33:14 <elliott> Because I'm pretty certain that's true of BF Joust, too.
22:33:15 <itidus21> i made a pong game fixed to 6 angles.. NE,E,SE,NW,W,SW
22:34:10 <Madoka-Kaname> It's not 'broken' but, you can set the data pointer to the instruction pointer.
22:34:14 <itidus21> i made a text based bomberman once in 320x200x256 or whatever res it was
22:34:37 <itidus21> it also had toggle-able gates for some reason
22:34:40 <RocketJSquirrel> Right, that allows faster-than-light travel in the data pointer.
22:35:02 <itidus21> i forget what the ai could do... if it could only follow you or if it could itself drop bombs
22:35:46 <zzo38> I think 320x200x256 is SCREEN 13
22:36:21 <zzo38> Tell me if you find it anyways
22:36:27 <itidus21> i made a simple maze thing where it has up to 3 black and white wireframe doors displayed and you select one of them.. and go from room to room
22:36:54 <itidus21> zzo38: no i can't :P buried as in either trashed or full of cobwebs
22:37:03 <Madoka-Kaname> !fyb lololol @@:[>++!];@@:[>++!];@@:[>++!];@@:[>++!];@@:[>++!];@@:[>++!];@@:[>++!];@@:[>++!];@@:[>++!];@@[{>>}[+]++++++++++++++!];>[{>>}[+]++++++++++++++!];***
22:37:12 <EgoBot> Score for Madoka-Kaname_lololol: 13.8
22:37:14 <zzo38> O, well, OK. Then don't find it.
22:37:26 <itidus21> im just telling you some of my early qbasic exploits
22:37:34 <Madoka-Kaname> !fyb lololol @@:[>++!];@@:[>++!];@@:[>++!];@@:[>++!];@@:[>++!];@@:[>++!];@@:[>++!];@@:[>++!];@@:[>++!];@@:[>++!];@@:[>++!];@@:[>++!];@@:[>++!];@@:[>++!];@@:[>++!];@@:[>++!];@@:[>++!];@@:[>++!];@@:[>++!];@@[{>>}[+]++++++++++++++!];>[{>>}[+]++++++++++++++!];***
22:37:53 <EgoBot> Score for Madoka-Kaname_lololol: 10.5
22:38:06 <itidus21> umm.. i did a simple gradius style thing where a triangle thing shoots at circles with line segments.. no powerups or any such things
22:39:18 <itidus21> i was trying to do a mario style thing with ascii blocks but never got very far
22:39:22 <zzo38> Another program of interest which will be accepted in The CGA Collection would be a Free (as in FSF) program in C which can compile the QBASIC programs which are part of The CGA Collection on multiple target platforms. Other than that, all programs must be DOS games using SCREEN 0 or SCREEN 1, 40x25 text, using only feature of IBM Color Graphics Adapter, must have short documentation in plain ASCII text, be public domain, have source-codes available, and fit o
22:39:38 <zzo38> Additional levels for the existing games are also acceptable.
22:40:46 <itidus21> zzo38: i think i only liked screen 13 for the way it made text nice and large and blocky..
22:41:05 <itidus21> the bombermany thing in question wasnt really very colourful to be honest
22:41:46 <impomatic> Thanks, didn't read the spec properly!
22:42:08 <EgoBot> Use: !bfjoust <program name> <program> . Scoreboard, programs, and a description of score calculation are at http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/
22:42:21 <zzo38> All games submitted must compile using QuickBasic Extended, even if a Free compiler is included as well (in which case, both compilers must work on the program).
22:42:23 <elliott> slowpoke's still at the top, I see.
22:42:35 <elliott> RocketJSquirrel: You should make a new warrior. C'moooon.
22:42:46 <itidus21> zzo38: also there was a game i called weeder, which was a 5x5 thing.. you had to collect these text weeds.. and avoid an invisible hole
22:43:11 <itidus21> i was so deluded at the time i imagined myself selling extra levels
22:43:21 <Madoka-Kaname> I wonder if BFJoust is easy to do with a proper evolutionary algorithm.
22:43:27 <zzo38> itidus21: You could also use SCREEN 0 with WIDTH 40, 25 if you are only using a 40x25 text grid with no more than 16 colors; I suggest using it if it will work for your program
22:45:03 <itidus21> zzo38: well.. i have nothing to show really.. but yeah thats what i got up to in qbasic all those years ago
22:45:53 <elliott> RocketJSquirrel: C'mooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooon. (Pronounced "k-moon".)
22:46:02 <zzo38> Have you seen The CGA Collection? Fell free to make additional levels and even modifications to the programs if you want to; everything in there is public domain
22:46:15 <itidus21> i find the uhhh.. procedural languages kind of obstructive to making games to be honest
22:46:28 <itidus21> i learned to think programming with qbasic
22:46:40 <itidus21> exactly what dijkstra says not to do
22:47:08 <EgoBot> Score for Madoka-Kaname_hi: 20.9
22:47:08 <EgoBot> Score for impomatic_dumb: 24.7
22:47:08 <EgoBot> Score for impomatic_dumb: 24.7
22:49:59 <itidus21> zzo38: ah i wasn't so bad before i went insane
22:50:06 <impomatic> Is there any way to see the FYB scoreboard?
22:53:25 <elliott> "There were already 96 screenshot requests for esolangs.org today." Uhhhhhhhhh...
22:58:51 <EgoBot> Score for Madoka-Kaname_stupid: 7.8
22:59:00 <EgoBot> Score for Madoka-Kaname_stupid: 12.3
22:59:15 <EgoBot> Score for Madoka-Kaname_stupid: 0.0
22:59:23 <EgoBot> Score for Madoka-Kaname_stupid: 8.2
22:59:45 <EgoBot> Score for Madoka-Kaname_stupid: 8.2
23:03:39 <EgoBot> Use: !bfjoust <program name> <program> . Scoreboard, programs, and a description of score calculation are at http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/
23:04:50 <zzo38> itidus21: I find QBASIC is not bad for making these computer games, though.
23:08:24 <calamari> "description of score calculation"... lies
23:09:39 <calamari> more like "incomplete description of score calculation omitting vital details"
23:10:20 <itidus21> zzo38: i don't think the more serious languages ever had games in mind..
23:10:30 <itidus21> basic kinda slips through as dumb but useful
23:10:45 <itidus21> not to say basic was made for games :-s
23:12:39 <zzo38> The format of CGACOLL.DOC is plain text wrapped at 75 columns, so if you send a game program to include then you should also send a CGACOLL.DOC entry.
23:12:51 <calamari> just needs a good compiler, like any other lang
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23:15:41 <itidus21> it's surprising to me how slow interpreters are
23:15:44 <zzo38> calamari: There is FreeBASIC, but for my purposes it has too many differences to QBASIC; also, it is not written in C, and doesn't easily compile to some other systems as far as I can tell
23:16:15 <itidus21> the interpretation process just doesn't seem that costly in theory
23:16:22 <calamari> zzo38: microsoft actually did a decent job on their old ms-dos basic compilers
23:17:09 <zzo38> calamari: Yes they did, but they are proprietary and are only for DOS computers.
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23:17:48 <itidus21> zzo38: have you ever seen those usborne books about basic?
23:18:05 <zzo38> But I do use them to make up these computer games. However I would like to have the Free one as well, which, in addition to freedom, is also not only for DOS computers, but can still compile the games in CGA Collection.
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23:19:01 <calamari> zzo38: nothing stopping you from writing it :)
23:19:06 <itidus21> ahh.. well as you probably know many many books have been published about basic. these books though had characteristic childishness with drawings of robots used to express how the pc works
23:19:22 <zzo38> calamari: Yes I may do something like that, possibly
23:19:35 <zzo38> itidus21: I have seen some of those.
23:19:44 <itidus21> heres a sample cover http://ia600805.us.archive.org/zipview.php?zip=/19/items/olcovers554/olcovers554-L.zip&file=5540311-L.jpg
23:19:55 <calamari> zzo38: use lex/yacc (or similar) and make your life easier hehe
23:20:30 <itidus21> ive downloaded quite a few of them.. but eventually i found my white whale.. one of the books that i can't find
23:20:32 <zzo38> calamari: I have never needed those before.
23:20:46 <itidus21> i like the whole 'basic' culture
23:20:56 <calamari> zzo38: of course they're not needed, but they make it easier
23:21:32 <calamari> I got the "basic techniques and utilities" book eventually.. had it on half.com for years
23:28:51 <itidus21> even c with allegro was fine for games on dos
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23:30:30 <itidus21> but.. directx/win32 api is just absurd.. soul-destroying
23:32:21 <zzo38> I agree DirectX/Win32 is pretty bad, one thing is it is very specific to Windows
23:34:19 <itidus21> to think perchance to imagine what might have been in windows stead
23:34:37 <elliott> http://esoteric.sange.fi/brainfuck/utils/mandelbrot/ Wow @ bf+cpp
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