2012-04-22 - freenode:#esoteric

00:12:27 <HackEgo> Haskell is preferred by 9 out of 10 esoteric programmers. Ask your GP today! http://learnyouahaskell.com/

00:12:48 <oerjan> `run echo 'No instance for (Wisdom IRC) \ arising from a use of `wisdom' \ Possible fix: add an instance declaration for (Wisdom IRC) \ In the expression: wisdom (Proxy :: Proxy IRC)' > wisdom/haskell

00:12:51 <HackEgo> bash: -c: line 0: syntax error near unexpected token `(' \ bash: -c: line 0: `echo 'No instance for (Wisdom IRC) \ arising from a use of `wisdom' \ Possible fix: add an instance declaration for (Wisdom IRC) \ In the expression: wisdom (Proxy :: Proxy IRC)' > wisdom/haskell'

00:13:51 <oerjan> `run echo "No instance for (Wisdom IRC) \\ arising from a use of `wisdom' \\ Possible fix: add an instance declaration for (Wisdom IRC) \\ In the expression: wisdom (Proxy :: Proxy IRC)" > wisdom/haskell

00:13:53 <HackEgo> bash: -c: line 0: unexpected EOF while looking for matching ``' \ bash: -c: line 1: syntax error: unexpected end of file

00:14:03 <oerjan> `run echo "No instance for (Wisdom IRC) \\ arising from a use of \`wisdom' \\ Possible fix: add an instance declaration for (Wisdom IRC) \\ In the expression: wisdom (Proxy :: Proxy IRC)" > wisdom/haskell

00:14:17 <HackEgo> No instance for (Wisdom IRC) \ arising from a use of `wisdom' \ Possible fix: add an instance declaration for (Wisdom IRC) \ In the expression: wisdom (Proxy :: Proxy IRC)

00:17:27 <elliott> `run echo "Unbound implicit parameter (?haskell::Wisdom) \ arising from a use of implicit parameter `?haskell'" >wisdom/haskell

00:17:30 <HackEgo> bash: -c: line 0: unexpected EOF while looking for matching ``' \ bash: -c: line 1: syntax error: unexpected end of file

00:17:38 <elliott> `run echo "Unbound implicit parameter (?haskell::Wisdom) \\ arising from a use of implicit parameter `?haskell'" >wisdom/haskell

00:17:41 <HackEgo> bash: -c: line 0: unexpected EOF while looking for matching ``' \ bash: -c: line 1: syntax error: unexpected end of file

00:17:50 <elliott> `run echo "Unbound implicit parameter (?haskell::Wisdom) \\ arising from a use of implicit parameter \`?haskell'" >wisdom/haskell

00:17:59 <HackEgo> Unbound implicit parameter (?haskell::Wisdom) \ arising from a use of implicit parameter `?haskell'

00:20:29 <elliott> oerjan: ps i see you've been fully indoctrinated into the reflection school of thought

00:21:34 <oerjan> ...that, or i was trying to make the error message particularly ridiculous...

00:22:55 <elliott> Well, writing reflect (Proxy :: Proxy p) all over the place is really awful.

00:23:42 <zzo38> I think that is the problem of the lack of good macros in Haskell in general

00:25:04 <oerjan> elliott: hm this could obviously be improved if we had the :: sections i've been thinking of before

00:26:19 <oerjan> since (:: p) = (\x -> x :: p) which has type (p ->) p, that would be of the required form

00:27:11 <elliott> oerjan: best of all, it would even be a correct type signature for the entire thing

00:34:36 <elliott> What does it mean if every few letters I type, my cursor switches from insert to override mode and back????

00:36:39 <oerjan> elliott: btw (reflect x :: p) would also be shorter, for whatever x = undefined you choose

00:37:20 <elliott> Err... I also can't press altgr+2 to switch to the 2nd desktop. soething is wrong here.

00:39:03 <oerjan> (reflect id :: p), (reflect [] :: p), are some of the possibilities. i don't recall any shorter predefined ones.

00:41:27 <elliottasdf> After hard-rebooting and trying to log in, it says my password is incorrect

00:41:29 <oerjan> <oerjan> (reflect id :: p), (reflect [] :: p), are some of the possibilities. i don't recall any shorter predefined ones.

00:41:41 <nortti> i have written very simple stdio.h for c2bf and I am currectly working on a simple c preproceasor

00:42:07 <elliottasdf> olsner: Yes, very helpful, thank you, seeing as I've entered it N times today.

00:44:21 <elliottasdf> Arch Linux, kernel version 3.2.2; login is via the standard VT login.

00:45:22 <elliottasdf> Two completely random, unexplainable behaviours in direct succession.

00:45:39 <elliottasdf> I think I have a USB hard drive with an Arch installation ISO on it.

00:45:52 <elliottasdf> Do you think it's worth a try to mount my Linux partition and reset my password with it?

00:48:02 <nortti> elliottasdf: try booting from live cd and setting second field in your /etc/passwd entry as empty

00:49:05 <elliottasdf> I'm not in *that* bad a mood. Although that one would make my day worse no matter how it was going.

00:50:23 <HackEgo> 513) <Phantom_Hoover> You realise the micromanagement it took to make quintopia encrust my silver throne with emeralds rather than a jug?

00:50:39 <Sgeo> Read some forum post suggesting to chroot to the system on HD then use passwd

00:51:42 <elliottasdf> I booted the live CD, typed "ls " and — I swear to god — ^[[2~ appeared after ls and before the space.

00:52:13 <elliottasdf> Unplugged the keyboard, plugged back in, same behaviour, what the fuck?!

00:52:18 <Sgeo> "Fixing partner's lost password: Boot into LiveCD, chroot into HD, use passwd. Tried unsuccessful options such as logging into recovery (on my machine), and pondered editing /etc/shadow directly but didn't know exactly what to change."

00:52:39 <elliottasdf> Sgeo: That's irrelevant now, it's something to do with the keyboard.

00:54:51 <elliottasdf> Took off & replaced keycap on "s"; nothing unusual, same behaviour.

00:55:42 <elliottasdf> Like, literally alternating nothing/it appears/nothing/it appears.

01:00:02 <elliottasdf> ISTR that the connections are laid out in a rather nonsensical manner.

01:03:11 <elliottasdf> How to fix it is less so, especially since taking off all the keycaps would probably result in my fingers becoming bloody messes.

01:05:42 <oerjan> elliottasdf: oh hm btw about reflect - wouldn't you usually call it as reify ... (\p -> ... reflect p ...) ?

01:06:33 <elliottasdf> The only thing you use the initial proxy for is to unify the types correctly.

01:07:01 <elliottasdf> Anyway, if anyone has any ideas that don't involve taking off every keycap, they'd be really really appreciated...

01:07:31 <oerjan> "the fast implementation ascends from the ranks of completely unportable black magic to being merely mostly unportable black magic" :D

01:09:29 <zzo38> I don't like the way those reflection stuff works; I had a better solution in Ibtlfmm where values can be made into types by {} around it and types into kinds by {} around it but it is not implemented as far as I know

01:09:31 <oerjan> elliottasdf: um, i don't see anything in the API that _forbids_ using the passed-in p as the proxy for reflect.

01:10:05 <elliottasdf> oerjan: Because you would have to pass the bloomin' p around everywhere as a parameter!

01:10:07 <zzo38> elliottasdf: Yes it probably does work better than before, but still it isn't sensible to me the way it is done in Haskell

01:10:58 <elliottasdf> then you can't do anything like that, you must construct your own proxy.

01:11:46 <oerjan> elliottasdf: oh hm reflect (:: p) is _not_ of type p. because that's really (:: s).

01:13:25 <zzo38> Maybe this way better: data DynamicMonoid (x :: *) (_ :: {x}) (_ :: {x}) :: * = DynamicMonoid x;

01:14:14 <elliottasdf> zzo38: I see you are still determined to reinvent Agda without looking at it.

01:14:52 <zzo38> elliottasdf: Yes I did make a mistake, it should be (_ :: {x -> x -> x})

01:15:30 <zzo38> I did look at Agda; it fails a few things I was looking for too, and it requires Unicode, and so on.

01:15:51 <lambdabot> elliott says: "with a lot of unicode" is like agda's @faq. "yes, agda can do that with a lot of unicode!"

01:18:07 <elliottasdf> Ilari. I distinctly remember Ilari talking about scancodes and keyboard layouts and shit.

01:18:54 <zzo38> People have told me some of these ideas resemble Haskell, Agda, Prolog, Lisp, Clean, and a few other things.

01:19:33 <elliottasdf> My keyboard has now started producing input without me pressing any keys.

01:20:03 <zzo38> O no, now you have to buy another keyboard, or fix it with a screwdriver and that stuff

01:21:16 <elliottasdf> OK, I tried to stop it and it just spewed a 1 out in the middle of the 3s.

01:24:54 <fizzie> Not much. I'd suggest a vigorous shaking, but I suppose that's as likely (or maybe slightly more) to make whatever's wrong worse.

01:25:01 <nortti> elliottasdf: Get cross, hold it in front if you in front of your keyboard and say "By the power of christ I command you to leave"

01:30:00 <elliottasdf> nortti: It was a joke. I wouldn't talk to that guy if he was the only person on the planet who could fix my keyboard, anyway.

01:31:05 <olsner> but... do you really want to fix a keyboard that breaks? you should get a keyboard that doesn't break instead

01:31:10 <fizzie> Personally I'd just buy a new keyboard, but certainly it at least has been possible to open those things up and clean/unstick the actual contact points, if that's the problem. Just removing keycaps probably doesn't open things up enough, though, and it might be somehow otherwise broken.

01:34:18 <fizzie> How'd that work, anyway? I think I saw a CTCP TIME from lambdabot the other day.

01:37:09 <fizzie> I have a spare PS/2 keyboard you can have if you pick it up. The 'u' doesn't work after an icecream incident, though.

01:38:18 <elliottasdf> They do. They don't work very well, esp. for things like the Model M which require rather more than a USB port is willing to offer.

01:40:20 <fizzie> http://www.recycledgoods.com/product_images/e/719/s_p_23909_1__90557_zoom.jpg yessss that looks familiar.

01:41:41 <fizzie> That thing's got a Sound Blaster 16 card with an Adaptec SCSI chip integrated right on it.

01:42:59 <fizzie> Also something that looks just like a Tseng Labs ET4000 VLB video card, except it's not physically a card, it's on the motherboard.

01:43:51 <fizzie> The (three) expansion card slots are in a board that sticks up vertically from a custom slot in the mb.

01:48:54 <pikhq> Yeah, either try cracking it open and seeing if there's any shorts, or buy a new one.

01:51:38 <NSQX> http://esolangs.org/wiki/UniCode All of us would always have ''only a few thoughts'' for UniCode, but what I want is teamwork by the whole community to help finish the first UniCode specification, which would require 65536 different instructions thought of.

01:53:52 <NSQX> No, first we will have teamwork on the UniCode 1.1 specification, which maps all the characters in Unicode 1.1 (65536 characters) to UniCode instructions. After we finish the UniCode 1.1 specification with our teamwork, then we will work on the UniCode 2.0 specification, which has more than 110,000 characters.

01:54:02 <elliottasdf> NSQX: Anyway, it would really be a good idea to omit the rows with no UniCode instruction description.

01:54:17 <elliottasdf> Otherwise the page will get way too big for the server and browsers very quickly, if a lot of people collaborate on creating the subpages.

01:54:36 <oerjan> NSQX: even besides the technical problems, there are not sufficiently many people sufficiently interested in this project.

01:56:10 <NSQX> Anyway, however, I am okay even if the ''UniCode 1.1 specification'' is completed in ''2020'' or earlier.

01:56:52 <nortti> elliott: you can get a free ps/2 keyboard from me if you come to finland and clean sodium hysrokside from it yourself

01:58:51 <NSQX> Well, for just this moment, think of any characters which are not yet mapped to any UniCode instructions, then type the character and your proposed instruction on this IRC channel. Of course, unlike a wiki, anything you type here does not fill up any server.

02:03:17 <NSQX> Okay, talk about thousands of UniCode characters and their instructions on the non-logged channel #uclang

02:07:31 <elliottasdf> NSQX: You won't be able to fill up any disk by talking in here, anyway.

02:07:48 <elliottasdf> The freenode servers rate-limit every client, so there's no way for any one person to cause much data to be logged per day.

02:12:17 <RocketJSquirrel> nortti: "ITYM" = "I think you mean", and I'm making fun of our silly, would-be-prime-if-not-for-symmetry number of fingers.

02:13:44 <RocketJSquirrel> elliottasdf: Our number of fingers is 2*5. If it wasn't for the free multiple of two thanks to symmetry, it would be prime.

02:19:10 <elliottasdf> The other one is, like, 1.33 GHz Core 2 Duo ULV with 4 gigs of RAM.

02:21:10 <elliottasdf> This one is 2.13 GHz Core 2 Duo with the same RAM, but the RAM is DDR3, the HD is SSD and the resolution is higher.

02:38:28 <HackEgo> 710) <fizzie> Do you want me to live dangerously and just stick it in the bot without testing it? <elliott> fizzie: Yes. <elliott> There is pretty much no way it won't be amazing.

02:39:16 <NSQX> Well, to find Unicode escape identifiers to put in the table of UniCode characters, go to http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/(hexcode)/index.htm

02:40:36 <NSQX> For example, http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/00AB/index.htm for the Unicode escape identifier for UniCode's right shift instruction, which is LEFT-POINTING DOUBLE ANGLE QUOTATION MARK

02:41:41 <NSQX> Then look for "LEFT-POINTING DOUBLE ANGLE QUOTATION MARK" on that page, it is the Unicode escape identifier apart from the code.

02:43:19 <elliottasdf> So I'm not sure what you want that column to contain, other than the hex version of the column next to it.

02:49:14 <elliott> Actually, I might just cry anyway. But you should still fix my keyboard.

02:51:05 <oerjan> I'm sorry, elliott. I'm afraid I can't do that. Except for the swatting part. -----###

02:54:59 <elliott> I bet soon you'll get really keybored of hearing about my broken keyboard.

03:41:33 <elliott> Totally. I logged out and suggested an edit just so I could reject it.

03:42:54 <elliott> (I Don't Care 'Bout How You Guys Yank Televisions From Radical Democrats (So Radical))

03:45:30 <elliott> "Ibex 'Dangerously Crass' Begats Hella Yak Geishas, You Tossers", Fucking Ridiculous Diocese Sluttily Rants

03:46:59 <elliott> Incantations Don't Castrate Banned Hamburgers; However, Yammering Ghouls' Ytterbium Tools Froze Recently, Damning Saintly Raccoons.

03:49:34 <elliott> Isengard Disease Causes Buggery, Hugs; Y'all Gimli-Yacht Travellers, For Real; Don't Sex Rabbis.

03:58:50 <lambdabot> monqy: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.

04:01:39 <monqy> 01:51:38: <NSQX> http://esolangs.org/wiki/UniCode All of us would always have ''only a few thoughts'' for UniCode, but what I want is teamwork by the whole community to help finish the first UniCode specification, which would require 65536 different instructions thought of.

04:07:39 <monqy> i'll just start where i last quit and skim until i find something interesting

04:12:45 <monqy> probably someone in ##crawl will ask me why i queued all of these deaths

04:16:13 <monqy> so far only mikee has said anything and it was just asking me why all these d:1 mucks are important

04:17:47 <monqy> for future reference (assuming any future at all) that brown ^ was a shaft and you could have stepped on it and hit > for a free escape

04:20:35 <elliott> also i meant to say monqy instead of squarelos so that it was more symmetrical sigh

04:20:53 <monqy> well making big delays shorter is fine by me but i wish it kept small delays small

04:35:44 <monqy> 21:35:38 <Henzell> macos[1/1]: Install iTerm, do not use Terminal.app. If you like X, any sane X terminal emulator will work (xterm, urxvt).

04:43:38 <elliott> i think because its even more boring when im not acutally making the game do anything

04:45:11 <monqy> if you want to get far enough to see different parts of crawl which is probably the best thing to do to get into it

04:47:12 <monqy> oh no am i accidentally using the shortenings do you know what they mean i forgot to explain them

04:48:57 <monqy> as a berserker you can pray over corpses you don't want to eat to sacrifice them to trog, press a to use god abilities (you start with berk)

04:49:07 <monqy> you could play a kobe and maybe dive a bit and use berk to kill hard stuff

04:52:53 <monqy> cannibalism isn't a problem in crawl unless you worship good gods or the corpse of your race is indedible to you

04:54:19 <monqy> unless they're pois+contam, in which case they're just like contam chunks

04:57:09 <elliott> i swear roguelikes take place in a world where everybody's swords are made of jelly

04:58:22 <monqy> really you could have dove right at the beginning but maybe you feel more comfortable this way

04:59:00 <elliott> it feels less foolhardy if i level up a bit first because then i have a Serious Commitment to the game

04:59:46 <monqy> my strat on berkers is dive until i find hard things then berk them for all the levels i could have gotten by doing things slowly

05:03:31 <zzo38> The next session of Dungeons&Dragons game not played yet so I selected a flaw and a feat (it is allowed to select a trait no more often than once every five levels, although less often if you wish; but only upon advancing a level)

05:03:35 <monqy> also if you're in especially trrouble you can use one of trogs other abilities before the berk too, like trogs hand for extra hp regen and magic resistance, or brothers in arms from berking friends

05:04:30 <monqy> kiting is when you used ranged stuff then step away until you're out of range and repeat

05:04:48 <monqy> you're in no danger at all and you can kill anything that's slower than you and melee only

05:04:50 <Patashu> it's kind of silly, spriggans and centaurs are way too powerful as a result

05:08:25 <monqy> ##crawl is generally better than wiki but sometimes bad people give bad advice

05:08:28 <Patashu> you can pm the bots directly if you don't want to reveal your shameful secrets

05:09:44 <Patashu> btw, the most important thing to know in crawl as a combat wombat is the concept of weapon delay

05:10:04 <Patashu> every 2 points in $weapon_skill your weapon's weapon delay is reduced by 10%

05:10:33 <Patashu> basically you want to pump your weapon skill until you have the min delay for your weapon

05:11:08 <zzo38> ADOM has something like weapon delay too; the more skills you have reduce the energy costs. This is described fully in the instructions (push ? during the game).

05:14:58 <zzo38> Is it possible to win at Crawl without ever advancing an experience level?

05:15:39 <monqy> zzo38: well, maybe with absolutely insane luck manipulation, but then I don't know

05:15:40 <zzo38> monqy: In ADOM it is possible; someone won an ultra ending with only one experience point in total (which is not enough to advance a level).

05:17:47 <Patashu> and you don't start with enough escape resources nor will you find enough

05:18:41 <Patashu> in crawl, the field of vision model is that you can project a line from anywhere within your tile to anywhere in the other tile

05:18:50 <zzo38> Can you, scare someone away, teleport in different places, get a lot of defense, etc

05:18:52 <monqy> ther'es a certain tension between realism and crawl isn't real life, and in crawl it ends with everyone being upset

05:19:07 <Patashu> but you can't do them enough without levels or a shitload of comestibles

05:19:41 <monqy> str would be for armours and you're probably as kobe doing more a dodgey route. you already have enough str for any armour you'd want to use

05:20:27 <Patashu> zzo38: the thing about crawl that's different from most roguelikes is that 'teleportation' takes a few turns to activate

05:20:34 <Patashu> and during those few turns you're pretty vulnerable to whatever's in your line of sight

05:21:12 <Patashu> there's a teleport control status, but certain levels (like zot:5) prevent it from working, too

05:21:27 <Patashu> while theoretically you could teleport-dance to get three runes the orb and leave you can't really do it enough and reliably enough

05:22:18 <zzo38> (In ADOM, someone has once won with the weight limit being no more than one chaos orb, meaning you have to place each orb individually)

05:22:36 <Patashu> like where you teleport to the rooms in darkforge full of pools weapons and armour

05:22:54 <monqy> elliott: crawl has "vaults" which are chunks of predesigned dungeon structure, and "entry vaults" which happen on game start

05:24:04 <monqy> worst that can happen is you pray away the corpses you want to eat and run out of food "rip"

05:24:45 <zzo38> Patashu: I know, ADOM has a lot of these things; it has the "uberjackal" effect which many people hate but I think it is not strong enough

05:25:00 <monqy> if you don't need the corpse or turn for something else: pray is stricktly good

05:25:40 <zzo38> And you can win without ever entering Darkforge, even. You could also win by entering only the tower of flames and the main dungeon

05:26:04 <zzo38> (I have found where the world map is stored in the executable, and edit it; it is not difficult to do)

05:29:20 <elliott> They say that the Orb of Zot exists deep, deep down but nobody ever got it.

05:30:20 <monqy> The bosom of this dungeon contains the most powerful artefact, the Orb of Zot.

05:31:44 <monqy> also maybe you are diving a bit too quickly?? maybe dive to d:3 then find something difficult to get a level or two off of before going further??

05:33:18 <elliott> i feel like monqy was just treating my badness as a crawl-specific thing and is now giving up on me

05:34:42 <elliott> its really boring to consider every little thing that i know will be fine

05:35:31 <elliott> well nethack is a lot less boring because the maps are a lot smaller and stuff but

05:36:19 <Patashu> the other thing you need is a strong early game so you figure out what your resources are and get a strong attack quickly

05:36:28 <Patashu> if you're a melee character, pump the type of weapon you're using, and look for strong weapons of that kind

05:36:36 <monqy> i think the furthest i got is it was time to do the quest or something and i couldn't figure out how

05:36:41 <Patashu> if you're a spellcaster, pump the kind of spell you're using (+ spellcasting if you need to reduce your hunger, e.g. spriggan)

05:37:03 <Patashu> how I do it is wait until I have a bunch of scrolls, then start reading them

05:37:11 <Patashu> if I'm prompted to select an item, it's either identify, enchant armour or recharging

05:37:27 <Patashu> (you do it that way because there are more dangerous potions than dangerous scrolls)

05:39:14 <elliott> but then monqy could be relaly good i wouldnnt know ive never seen monqy play

05:41:07 <zzo38> I have many ideas to make up a roguelike game. One is that each kind of creature and each class has two numeric values associated with it called "experience factor" and "score factor", neither of which affect NPCs. Also that inactive areas are stored to disk instead of memory, that experience points are mostly earned from quests and other unique things, that tactics to save time are important, many kinds of spells/items, etc

05:41:47 <zzo38> I don't know what is your opinion of some of my ideas for roguelike games

05:42:09 <monqy> alternatively start reading scrolls for identify and start the identification game right now

05:43:06 <monqy> annoying but sometimes lifesaving? like it's just annoying if you're high hp and if you're low hp it should be pausing on hp loss anyway so yeah it's just dumb

05:43:33 <zzo38> Patashu: When I am playing KING game I usually only quaff a potion I have more than one of if it is unidentified, however, in KING, all potions are equally likely to appear

05:44:42 <monqy> shafts can take you down up to 3 levels i think? and you cant go back up them so

05:45:27 <zzo38> There is a review of my KING game which says that the game is good in general but things such as, even after you identify a potion it still might be difficult to understand, for example a potion of Regenerate will regenerate the level, not your health.

05:47:17 <elliott> does being very full or jjjorijtiorjtojrtijrotjritjroijtoirjtoirjtoirjtoirjtiorjtirojt thingy

05:49:33 <Patashu> I think it's more likely to pick ghosts of people who have died lately

05:49:35 <monqy> Patashu: were you around for the squarelos branch? in which square los was implemented

05:52:08 <monqy> i will also send you "hi" if you: kite excessively, use mephitic cloud, -yes

05:52:46 <elliott> `addquote <Sgeo> hack and back? <Patashu> works on anything much slower than you <monqy> at the cost of: guilt, hating yourself, me sending you the message "hi" <Patashu> am I also forbidden to cast mephitic cloud and cblink <monqy> i will also send you "hi" if you: kite excessively, use mephitic cloud, -yes

05:52:49 <HackEgo> 844) <Sgeo> hack and back? <Patashu> works on anything much slower than you <monqy> at the cost of: guilt, hating yourself, me sending you the message "hi" <Patashu> am I also forbidden to cast mephitic cloud and cblink <monqy> i will also send you "hi" if you: kite excessively, use mephitic cloud, -yes

05:54:34 <zzo38> If your character is human then they may be as fast as you I suppose, so you can run away at the same speed they are running, I suppose, I would think. But if your character not human then consider something else

05:54:44 <monqy> elliott: generally if you'r ein unexplored territory you should see if there's something you can't see or back way intpo exoplorded tarretory if you can

05:55:23 <monqy> you can run it just won't get you away from the human. it will hit you but less frequently

06:00:03 <elliott> im dont do anything patashu says after latst time without monqy confirmation

06:00:29 <monqy> maybe identify stuff if youre ok with that sort of thing. generally the thing to do is read scrolls to identify them and use id scrolls on potions, since bad scrolls arent so bad but bad potions are real badlike

06:00:36 <Patashu> lower weapon delay = you get hit less because you hit more faster like

06:00:54 <monqy> i dunno if you're at a learning point at which you should bother with skills

06:01:23 <Sgeo> elliott, read-iding works with many scrolls, although id/enchant armor/recharge it would be useful with spoilers

06:02:15 <monqy> elliott: it wouldn't hurt to do the skill thing where you disable everything but m&f for aw hile but ehh

06:02:18 <Sgeo> elliott, basically, scrolls that can be used on items are either ID or enchant armor or recharge

06:03:37 <monqy> also you may want to switch to manual mode it doesnt mater when youre only training one thing

06:05:10 <elliott> its like that thing that sgeo knows a lot about but has never played ever i forget what it is

06:05:57 <Sgeo> elliott, NetHack? DF? (Although I would not say I know a lot about either)

06:07:39 <monqy> you got more hp (good), less mp (doesnt matter), and you move slwoly (bad)

06:12:23 <monqy> the problem with zerking then is you're stuk in the net and berk will expire quickly with you trying to get out of it

06:14:41 <monqy> what's annoying is brogue vampire bad packs. not really hard most of the time but augh so annoying

06:15:42 <zzo38> A monad transformer for Either would be simple: lift = EitherT . fmap Right; join (EitherT x) = EitherT (x >>= either (return . Left) id);

06:17:24 <monqy> ring mail hurts a bit more than leather armour so if you want to take baby steps go leather first

06:17:26 <zzo38> elliott: I didn't find it in mtl either; but I looked I found it in the package called EitherT

06:19:06 <zzo38> join (EitherT x) = EitherT (x >>= either (return . Left) runEitherT); is what it should be

06:19:17 <Patashu> 1586697 games for *: 448897x , 100673x a hobgoblin, 96271x a kobold, 59749x a gnoll, 49001x an orc priest, 48617x an orc wizard, 46036x a snake, 42409x an ogre, 41408x Sigmund, 38909x a goblin, 36786x an orc, 27486x an orc warrior, 27406x a centaur, 27355x a jackal, 27330x a giant gecko, 18774x a worm, 13987x Terence, 13309x Ijyb, 12979x a giant cockroach, 12313x a rat, 12188x an ooze, 10628x

06:20:00 <monqy> if you find a better mace or flail and have decednt attack delay with it

06:21:30 <monqy> get to a corner so the orc wizard will have to get next to you and can't blink away without getting out of sight

06:21:55 <zzo38> But the package implements it in a way which seems too long to me such as EitherT x >>= f = EitherT $ do { res <- x; case res of { Right r -> runEitherT . f $ r; Left l -> return (Left l); }; };

06:29:24 <zzo38> coppro: No, but I would want to know what someone else knowing Pokemon Card would think of this: http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/img_14/pokemoncard1.png Such as, who is winning and so on. I do have a later picture too

06:29:49 <monqy> you can kill plant if you hit it enough but it's usually not worth the bother

06:30:13 <coppro> zzo38: I am also not familiar enough with the video game to interpret the situation from that screenshot

06:31:23 <zzo38> coppro: You do not need to know the video game; everything there should be clear of the card game. The top player has already taken one side card, and has seven cards in hand and eight cards in trash and twenty-four cards in draw pile. Hopefully everything else is clear. (If not, ask.)

06:31:28 <monqy> magic mapping is useful on branch endings and for mapping out zot for diving i

06:31:46 <monqy> particularly for mapping out special pandemonium levels if you want to do a controlled teleport to the rune

06:31:52 <zzo38> coppro: Also, have you shown anyone else the two puzzles I have written? You are the only one I have shown who could solve them

06:32:16 <coppro> No, I have not. I don't know very many people who play Pokemon and I don't talk to any of them on a regular basis

06:33:06 <monqy> ring mail would be better than scale mail for you right now, and leather better than that, but animal skin might really be best at the meoment

06:33:11 <Patashu> the mundane forms of armour, from least to most AC, is: animal skin/robe < leather < ring < scale < chain < splint < plate

06:35:53 <zzo38> KANGHASKHAN [Lv40]: Retreat cost 3, weak { # }, resist { @ }, attacks: { * } FETCH: draw a card; { **** } COMET PUNCH: Damage 2*coins(4).

06:37:27 <zzo38> DARK CHARIZARD [Lv38]: Retreat 3, weak { 6 }, resist { # }, attacks: { * } NAIL FLICK: 1 damage; { MM } CONTINUOUS FIREBALLS: Toss coins equal to number of energy cards, each heads discards one energy and 5 damage

06:38:50 <zzo38> CHARMANDER [Lv9]: Retreat 1, weak { 6 }, no resist, power: GATHER FIRE: One during your turn if not sleep/confuse/paralyze, you can move one fire energy from another of your cards to this one. attacks: FIRE TAIL: does 2 point of damage

06:40:26 <zzo38> HAUNTER [Lv17]: Retreat cost zero, no weakness, resist { # }, power: TRANSPARENCY: If not speel/confuse/paralyze, toss a coin if any attack has an effect on this card, and if heads negate all effects; attack: NIGHTMARE: 1 point of damage and opponent sleeps

06:41:27 <zzo38> DROWZEE [Lv12]: Retreat 1, weak { @ }, resist none, attack: { * } POUND: 1 damage; { @@ } CONFUSE: 1 damage and toss a coin if heads confused opponent.

06:41:38 <elliott> like having good opinions is the most worthless skill ever anyone can do that

06:42:33 <zzo38> JYNX [Lv23]: Retreat 2, weak { @ }, no resistance; attacks: { @ } DOUBLESLAP: Two coins, 1 damage per heads; { @@* } MEDITATE: Damage is 2 + amount of damage already on opponent

06:43:04 <monqy> 20:25:41: <elliott> ais523: What's a good roguelike that doesn't end in "Hack"?

06:43:33 <Patashu> brogue reasons: popping a bloat to kill the pack of jackals mobbing you

06:47:43 <coppro> zzo38: the top player's pokemon are not very useful. Kangaskhan will die to a meditate

06:48:47 <zzo38> coppro: You are correct about the bottom player having the advantage, but not quite right about the meditate. Here is a later state of the game: http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/img_14/pokemoncardII.png

06:50:06 <zzo38> coppro: Yes it is fire energy, although I don't know what you are refering to.

06:51:41 <zzo38> coppro: On top of what? Do you mean the energy attached to KANGASKHAN [Lv40]? It doesn't matter since that card can use any energy to attack. (However, in the first picture, it is confused.)

06:54:41 <monqy> elliott: someone with a name starting with "elli" joine ##crawl and i thought it was you for a second

06:55:05 <monqy> elliott: by the way you should join ##crawl just because you'd have the same four-letter prefix as one of the regulars

06:55:19 <zzo38> coppro: OK, did you see the second picture? It is just a later picture of the same duel

06:56:37 <zzo38> Do you think the ten fire energies on Charmander is for MR.FUJI to fill up your draw pile, or to make a large attack later? Actually it is just a bluff.

06:57:30 <zzo38> elliott: Well, if you need to reduce your dexterity it might be useful (I don't know why you need to do that); but you should probably remove the curse so that the ring can be removed when you want to put your dexterity score back to normal

07:00:32 <zzo38> coppro: It seem you know Pokemon Card better than the other people who have tried to answer the puzzles and analyze the pictures; nobody else could understand even if they know Pokemon Card

07:01:09 <coppro> I don't think I will make any in the near future, but I will tell you if I do.

07:03:00 <zzo38> coppro: I will tell you if I have more puzzles. Currently I have none but I would like you or someone else to make some that I can look at; if it isn't you either then we can both try it

07:04:44 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: `meh'': not found

07:05:21 <monqy> and make sure you're in melee range and it's not blinking everwhere, and yoi're 1vs1ing it

07:05:58 <zzo38> coppro: I would also ask if you know about defensive strategies/tactics in chess? I find some of their tactics can be played in Pokemon Card too, actually

07:11:49 <Patashu> btw the hammer will be slightly worse than your mace, unless it has a cool brand like flaming or freezing

07:12:20 <monqy> 01:58:51: <NSQX> Well, for just this moment, think of any characters which are not yet mapped to any UniCode instructions, then type the character and your proposed instruction on this IRC channel. Of course, unlike a wiki, anything you type here does not fill up any server.

07:16:56 <elliott> 08:16 <Sequell> 24. soul, XL4 DEFE, T:1489: http://crawl.develz.org/morgues/trunk/soul/morgue-soul-20120422-065107.txt

07:25:48 <monqy> crimson imps are annoying since they regenderate hp quickly and blink around

07:26:17 <monqy> oone comone way to deal with them is to "park" them on a previous level by leading them to a staircas, taking it with it adjacent, waiting for ot to blink away, and going down

07:29:46 <zzo38> Do you agree or disagree: No free man should be hanged twice for the same offence.

07:34:38 <Patashu> sword of slowing, leather armour of mutuality, staff of lightning, staff of obstruction

07:34:39 <monqy> also trog powers have power based on piety so at high piety they will be bettter

07:42:35 <Patashu> I could livestream it but it'd be hard to see because of how big it is

07:48:29 <elliott> This seems like a good idea, and I support it, but I suspect NSQX will manage to mess it up somehow. —Maharba 05:45, 22 April 2012 (UTC)

08:30:55 <elliott> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FOSD_Program_Cubes oh boy can you say original research

08:34:43 <fizzie> Origona... originnul... original resurr... original rece... origami resea... no, I can't.

08:35:42 <Phantom_Hoover> Hey, I finally got around to taking a photo of the errors on booting Arch.

08:36:09 <elliott> VERY INTERESTING THAT I LOST CONNECTION RIGHT AFTER POINTING OUT AN UNFAIRNESS

08:37:05 <Sgeo> If you're short on gold for some particularly interesting commodity, you can place it onto your shopping list. The game will interrupt you when you have collected enough gold to finally purchase an item on that list. You can read the shopping list in the game with '$'.

08:37:55 <fizzie> Phantom_Hoover: If it fits in the video memory scrollback buffer, shift-pageup a bit.

08:39:19 <fizzie> Alternatively, try a serial-console boot, that lets you log that stuff up.

08:41:31 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: `wje'': not found

08:42:22 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: i'll: not found

08:45:34 <fizzie> A network console also exists, but your error might be slightly too early for that.

08:46:25 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: w`jè: not found

08:48:30 <Sgeo> Apart from divine help, the most convenient way to do so is by reading a scroll of amnesia, which will let you pick a scroll to forget.

08:49:07 <elliott> @tell monqy was rly disappointed that this code is well laid-out and readable

08:51:36 <elliott> ^rainbow wje wje wje wje wje wje wje wje wje wje wje wje wje wje wje wje

09:04:17 <oklopol> is "force" used in english in the sense of forcing a new meme? i can't find this in the urbandictionary, but what else would you use for it.

09:09:12 <Sgeo> While it is active, you can't eat unless you are starving or near starving (and you only get half nutrition then).

10:07:39 <Patashu> the point of being in light armour is so you can also cast spells, right

10:10:32 <Patashu> the problem is finding a set, but until you find plate you can just use whatever you find

10:14:52 <Patashu> you don't have to put -anything- in the armour skill for it to kick in

10:16:19 <Patashu> other things you can do: pick up and throw darts/spears/javelins at tough (melee) monsters while waiting for them to approach, pillar dance, fully explore each level before descending to the next

10:43:16 <Patashu> you should mentally replace 'curse' and 'cursed' with 'glue' and 'glued'

10:45:14 <Patashu> (you don't want rings of ice/fire since they make you vulnerable to the opposite element)

10:49:00 <Patashu> pillar dancing is where you exploit the property of being as fast or faster than your opponent

10:50:06 <NSQX> http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?=PHPE9568F36-D428-11d2-A769-00AA001ACF42 http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?=PHPE9568F34-D428-11d2-A769-00AA001ACF42 http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?=PHPE9568F35-D428-11d2-A769-00AA001ACF42 http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?=PHPB8B5F2A0-3C92-11d3-A3A9-4C7B08C10000

10:50:09 <elliott> i just don't want to get into situations where i have to do that in the first place

10:50:52 <elliott> it means i'll have to restart more often, but it also means that i won't be bored to death

10:56:23 * NSQX attempts to freeze the conversations about anything else than esoteric programming languages on #esoteric

11:04:19 <Patashu> (basically, pain does more damage the higher your necromancy skill is)

11:09:08 <Patashu> woah, I clicked something and I'm seeing a replay of elliot's entire game

11:15:25 <Sgeo> Patashu, are spellbooks useful with Trog, in the "nice way to place a trap for things that I can trigger" way?

11:49:02 <Patashu> orc:4 has a chance of things like stone giants, ettins and orc warlords

11:53:30 <Patashu> past the early game it won't heal more than even a single round of melee

11:56:36 <Patashu> <Henzell> chaos brand[1/9]: Imitates other brands, or can heal, polymorph, berserk, haste, invisify, petrify, paralyse, torment, cause miscasts and probably do a lot more to enemies. Added in 0.5, only gifted by Xom, Xom's vault guards, found on Pan lords, or on the uniques Crazy Yiuf (always) or Psyche (sometimes).

11:56:47 <Patashu> you can't use it to fight hard enemies because you'll randomly berserk them

12:06:16 <Patashu> (e.g. if you're at min delay they're only hitting about half as often)

12:06:23 <Patashu> (so it looks like your defenses are waay better but really it's you that's in slow motion

12:37:53 <elliott> the worst part of roguelikes is that lull after you die when you really don't want to go back to early-game stuff

12:41:33 <Patashu> the first thing you did wrong is run into a part of the map you hadn't explored yet

12:41:40 <Patashu> (hint: these are more likely to contain enemies that will stop you from running away

12:42:01 <Patashu> you make it impossible to change direction without the enemy getting a hit off of you

12:42:11 <Patashu> in general, you don't use diagonal movement over orthogonal movement as often as you could

12:46:42 <Patashu> if you see a tough monster that makes you really worried, you might opt to back off a long distance with it following you

12:46:55 <Patashu> instead of charging at it and discovering it has lots of friends waiting with it