00:00:16 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
00:00:22 <ais523> probably one I've never heard of
00:00:29 <elliott> monqy: hey, what's the worst roguelike?
00:00:56 <elliott> yes, i already established that
00:01:10 <shachaf> I established it *years* ago.
00:01:18 <elliott> i have comprehensive justification
00:01:25 <monqy> worst roguelike is
00:01:29 <monqy> gee is there even one
00:01:29 <shachaf> Mine is both left- *and* right- justified.
00:01:49 <shachaf> elliott: OH NO, PARADOX: nethack is worse than rogue and rogue is worse than nethack
00:02:08 <elliott> 22:13 elliott: I think the best roguelike is probably robotfindskitten
00:02:08 <elliott> 22:14 elliott: there's no grinding, no unforseeable deaths
00:02:08 <elliott> 22:14 elliott: and the level and creature design is interesting
00:02:09 <elliott> 22:14 elliott: also, no food, no item identification, no exp levels
00:02:11 <elliott> 22:14 ais523: it's kind-of simplistic
00:02:13 <elliott> 22:14 elliott: that just means there's no need for spoilers!
00:02:17 <elliott> 22:42 elliott: another good thing about robotfindskitten: no boring combat system
00:02:19 <elliott> 22:43 ais523: no interesting combat system either
00:02:21 <elliott> 22:43 elliott: that's preferable
00:02:56 <elliott> The no-save feature of the Torneko and Shiren series, which is the main premise of roguelike games, was described as "the worst flaw in any RPG is the lack of a decent save system"[14] by Worthplaying.com and "[going] against the very foundation of what an RPG should be" by Gaming Age.[15]
00:06:22 <elliott> ais523: btw, i forget what your opinion on dredmor was
00:06:34 <ais523> elliott: it's addictive in the MMO sort of way
00:07:34 <elliott> ais523: also, if I make a roguelike, should I call it vagrant, it feels like it would sully the name
00:07:47 <ais523> depends on how good it is
00:08:23 -!- Patashu has joined.
00:08:53 <ais523> call it something else then
00:09:00 <elliott> but vagrant is a really good name
00:09:12 <ais523> unless you create something worthy of the name
00:09:29 <shachaf> elliott: You should make a game almost, but not quite, entirely unlike rogue.
00:10:04 <elliott> shachaf: that's my intention
00:10:29 <shachaf> ais523: Have I ever said anything in this channel that wasn't with an intent to annoy?
00:16:07 -!- augur has joined.
00:20:52 <elliott> ais523: what language should I write my roguelike in
00:20:59 <elliott> the answer is objective lolcode
00:21:17 <elliott> i'll simplify it with nonsense query lists
00:21:58 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
00:22:24 <elliott> maybe i'll do it in java or something, just for the hell of it
00:22:35 -!- augur has joined.
00:23:26 <ais523> OK, so the main issue now is trying to get Evolution working
00:23:32 <ais523> because it isn't accessing any of my mail accounts
00:23:43 <ais523> hmm, except possibly the Yahoo! one
00:25:12 <ais523> OK, I can send, and I can receive via POP3
00:25:19 <ais523> something seems wrong with IMAP, though
00:28:54 -!- const has changed nick to trout.
00:30:14 <ais523> I sent a usenet post to eternal-september.test
00:30:23 <ais523> and a bot saw the test and emailed me to say it had gone through OK :)
00:30:42 <elliott> it managed to parse your insane email?
00:33:24 <elliott> ais523: btw, wikihack is still substantially above nethackwiki almost always in my google results
00:35:43 <ais523> elliott: I didn't send it with the insane email
00:36:00 <ais523> just the standard ais523, nethack4.org (unobfuscated)
00:39:02 <elliott> ais523: I wonder what a roguelike in APL would look like
00:41:22 <ais523> OK, I think I fixed Evolution by deleting and recreating its information about my mail accounts
00:41:46 <ais523> being only IMAP that was broken, I can just redownload the whole things from the servers
00:41:56 <ais523> (if POP had been broken, I'd need to have restored from backups)
00:42:28 <elliott> pop is a horrible protocol
00:42:40 <ais523> it's good at doing the job it's designed for
00:42:46 <ais523> just that job is one that you might not necessarily want
00:43:08 <ais523> (it's fine for me, using Yahoo! purely as a relay and as a buffer for when I'm not online is exactly what I want from it)
00:48:02 <ais523> hmm, I've managed to trigger apport 4 times so far, I think (initctl, compiz, konqueror, gnome-screenshot-tool)
00:48:23 <ais523> this is what happens when you use betas, I guess
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00:55:47 <elliott> ais523: things with antennae can wear helmets, right?
00:57:40 <ais523> the game might distinguish helmets from hats for the purpose
00:58:05 <elliott> that was meant to be a real-world question so I could object to the game :)
01:12:58 <elliott> OK, todo list is now one item shorter.
01:13:56 <elliott> ais523: you want to be the SOA, right?
01:14:27 <elliott> it's an email i have to put in the dns
01:14:32 <elliott> as a technical contact for esolangs.org
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01:14:58 <ais523> you should typically get the DNS people to put their own email there and forward to you
01:15:19 <ais523> the people who run the DNS server, and/or administer the name
01:15:35 <elliott> the people who run the DNS server are the ones who want the email
01:16:51 <ais523> are they offering to obfuscate it for you?
01:17:12 <ais523> you should probably put your own there anyway, as emails to the DNS are likely to be along the lines of "your server's been hacked"
01:17:12 <elliott> I don't care about spam, I just dislike my email :(
01:17:19 <ais523> create another one and forward it?
01:17:22 <elliott> I'll probably just register another gmail account and forwar- yeah
01:17:28 <elliott> creating a google account is a pain though
01:17:34 <elliott> they don't support more than one email per account
01:17:35 <ais523> use a different provider than gmail?
01:18:13 <elliott> all the other free ones are worse, at least as far as the sign-up process goes
01:19:02 <elliott> Password strength: Too short
01:19:02 <elliott> Use at least 8 characters. Don’t use a password from another site or something too obvious like your pet’s name. Why?
01:19:11 <elliott> Google!yYou're berating me before I even started typing it
01:20:03 <ais523> random fun story: I was changing newsreader from xpn to pan, and couldn't remember my newsserver password
01:20:18 <ais523> xpn indicated the length in the box, and it didn't follow any of the usual password generation schemes
01:20:38 <ais523> so I looked in the dotfiles for it, and it was something very random-looking, so I guessed it was encrypted somehow
01:20:52 <ais523> asked for a password reminder, turns out it wasn't encrypted after all, that actually /was/ the password
01:20:58 <elliott> hmm, does anyone know if Google have any age restrictions for people over 16 but under 18?
01:21:13 <ais523> (a secondary conclusion can be drawn from this about the way that Eternal September store passwords)
01:26:40 * elliott wonders what esolangs.org's name is
01:26:45 <ais523> elliott: I think the answer to your question is "no" (with a suitably restricted definition of "anyone")
01:26:48 <ais523> elliott: esolangs.org?
01:26:59 <ais523> I can't think of any other reasonable answer to that question
01:27:14 <elliott> ais523: sorry, Google is too Western-biased; it has to have a first and last name
01:27:51 <ais523> I don't think gmail is really designed for people to create email addresses for non-human entities
01:27:58 * ais523 wonders if there are webmail providers which are
01:28:35 * elliott briefly considered just taking the opportunity to register a new personal email, but realised that he still had outstanding obligations wrt his current one.
01:30:13 <elliott> as in, things that depend on the email that I can't switch over conveniently
01:32:46 <elliott> maybe I should just use my name
01:32:59 <elliott> but that, err, involves claiming esolangs.org@gmail.com is male
01:34:06 <ais523> I don't see why email addresses can't have genders
01:35:02 * elliott is not entirely certain how to log out of google
01:36:03 <elliott> ais523: Can you send esolangs.org@gmail.com a test email?
01:36:19 <ais523> yes, do you want me to?
01:37:42 * elliott waits for the forwarded email
01:38:33 <ais523> I'm currently testing Evolution, so I sent the email to /both/ of us as a test
01:38:51 <elliott> hmm, no email in my personal account yet
01:39:56 * elliott tries to log in to the other account
01:40:14 <elliott> I received it there, which is worrying
01:40:54 <elliott> ais523: can you try again?
01:44:49 <elliott> "Yes, delete this sucker" -- Linode DNS manager
01:44:50 <ais523> some of those are work emails, you probably shouldn't have done that
01:47:14 <elliott> can someone ping me in 15 minutes?
01:47:32 <ais523> hmm, I will if I remember, but I probably won't remember
01:50:35 <ais523> elliott: hmm, interesting result: my personal work-provided email forwards (behind the scenes) to my work work-provided email, and it ended up with two copies of your reply
01:50:47 <elliott> that's good, it's a super important reply
01:50:52 <ais523> so I guess I learned something I wouldn't have otherwise
01:51:16 <ais523> btw, you owe me $500 for unauthorized use of nethack4.org, let's cancel out the debts and call it even
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01:52:20 <elliott> ais523: what i neglected to mention is that the $ there is elliott dollars
01:52:26 <elliott> which are worth 1000 US dollars each
01:52:37 <elliott> I'll happily pay your $500 USD fee
01:55:04 <ais523> elliott: but you agreed to /cancel/ the debts against each other
01:55:07 <ais523> it's your fault if they aren't equal!
01:55:46 <elliott> hey, if a machine's public IP is 2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:9fdd/64, I can just chop off the /64 to get a decent address to stick in the DNS, right?
01:56:22 <ais523> the unslashed version of an address is always an address somewhere inside the range it designates
01:56:38 <elliott> just wondered if it would be better to pick some other address in the range for some reason
01:56:51 <ais523> they will have picked that particular one for a reason
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02:02:19 <ais523> elliott: not at home; nethack4.org is accessible via IPv6
02:02:31 <elliott> does nethack4.org's server have IPv6?
02:02:47 <ais523> it can do IPv6 outbound if it can do it inbound, almost certainly
02:03:09 <ais523> it does not, however, have any web browser but wget, which isn't really a web browser
02:03:44 <ais523> do you want a wget of esolangs.org, by any chance?
02:04:19 <ais523> elliott: it's been about 15 minutes, here's your ping
02:04:26 <elliott> ais523: thanks, but I reset the timer :)
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02:11:20 <elliott> wow YouTube ads are really annoying
02:11:33 <ais523> you don't adblock youtube?
02:11:51 <elliott> I just haven't got around to buying a new keyboard yet
02:11:53 <ais523> oh right, you'd probably need to use firefox to adblock it properly
02:12:28 <ais523> one of my own personal arguments as to why adblocks are morally justifiable is that they actually make me see more ads on a site
02:12:46 <ais523> as they make me more inclined to visit it rather than unable to tolerate it, and this includes when I'm in browsers that don't have adblock
02:12:52 <elliott> ais523: can you try to look up esolangs.org's IPv6 address with the ns1.linode.com nameserver on nethack4.org?
02:13:06 <ais523> hmm, I'm not sure if it has dig or an equivalent
02:13:40 <ais523> I'll install it temporarily
02:14:20 <ais523> there's no AAAA there, just an A field
02:14:28 <elliott> guess I'll wait some longer
02:14:58 <ais523> it installs and uninstalls really quickly
02:15:32 <ais523> btw, one nice improvement from 10.04 to 12.04: the huge list of kernels in the GRUB screen is hidden behind a submenu
02:15:40 <ais523> it just shows the most recent one outside it
02:15:43 <ais523> that's a great compromise
02:15:51 <elliott> ais523: that's been there for years
02:16:08 <ais523> there's a reason I stated the version numbers
02:16:14 <elliott> I remember using a 10.x without a huge list
02:16:33 <ais523> elliott: anyway, I'm glad I decided to try Unity first, despite your advice to just go straight to xfce
02:16:34 <coppro> it may also have been a fresh install
02:16:45 <ais523> yep, the list grew over time
02:17:05 <elliott> I don't really suggest xfce to people
02:19:13 <ais523> you suggested it to me in particular, when I asked for advice
02:19:29 <elliott> that's a misrepresentation of my opinion of xfce :)
02:19:49 <elliott> I'll tell people that Xfce is a reasonable simulacrum of GNOME 2
02:20:02 <elliott> but my real advice is to use xmonad
02:20:09 <elliott> (or another tiling WM, if you wish)
02:22:56 <ais523> tiling WMs don't fit my workflow yet
02:24:34 <elliott> yeah, I said that, but then I jsut shut up and installed one and it works fine
02:24:53 <elliott> ais523: are you sure dig doesn't require additional options to return AAAA records?
02:26:45 <ais523> also, just realised that you can check from an IPv4 connection
02:27:20 <ais523> elliott: try dig -t AAAA
02:27:43 <ais523> esolangs.org.86400INAAAA2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:9fdd
02:27:47 <elliott> OK, now I just need to set up the web server to handle IPv6
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02:41:00 <elliott> ais523: does wget let you set a Host header?
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02:41:19 <ais523> elliott: err, isn't that header the one that contains the name of the website you're accessing?
02:41:23 <elliott> if so, it would be useful if you could try and send an http request to 2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:9fdd for host esolangs.org, path /wiki/Main_Page
02:41:37 <ais523> in which case, you'd do it via wget http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page wouldn't you?
02:41:43 <elliott> esolangs.org doesn't point there
02:41:58 <ais523> oh, I see, the idea's to send one that doesn't match the IP?
02:42:15 -!- quintopia has joined.
02:43:51 <ais523> elliott: --header="Host: esolangs.org"
02:44:21 <ais523> requires wget 1.10 or above
02:44:48 <ais523> shachaf: most software does
02:44:53 <shachaf> I thought it was, like, an eternal unchanging binary.
02:45:23 <ais523> $ wget -6 --header="Host: esolangs.org" "http://[2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:9fdd]/wiki/Main_Page
02:45:51 <ais523> the reply looks like MediaWiki-generated HTML
02:46:01 <elliott> 2001:4b98:dc0:41:216:3eff:fedd:d4e3 - - [27/Apr/2012:02:45:14 +0000] "GET /wiki/
02:46:01 <elliott> 200 18599 "-" "Wget/1.12 (linux-gnu)"
02:46:06 <ais523> and yes, it's the Main Page
02:46:15 <elliott> OK, I'll email THE ALAN DIPERT, and then esolangs.org will be IPv6 Ready(TM)
02:46:28 <ais523> nethack4.org.8818INAAAA2001:4b98:dc0:41:216:3eff:fedd:d4e3
02:46:32 <ais523> same IP, I was just checking
02:47:02 <ais523> you should have checked that first, in case it was a bad timing coincidence and you just violated someone else's privacy
02:47:18 <ais523> I'd be pretty annoyed if it wasn't the case that nethack4.org's IP is public information anyway
02:47:22 <elliott> I don't consider IPs private
02:47:35 <ais523> well, I consider them an identifier of the person
02:47:38 <shachaf> I might email AN ALAN DIPERT myself.
02:47:42 <elliott> they're a rather terrible identifier
02:47:50 <ais523> imagine if you'd accidentally let slip that Simon Cowell or someone had visited esolangs.org
02:48:00 <elliott> hey, I'd do that purposefully
02:48:03 <ais523> (apparently he's the most famous person in the UK right now)
02:48:08 <shachaf> ais523: Is your name "Simon Cowell"?
02:48:15 <elliott> but, I don't believe that you can identify Simon Cowell from an IP
02:48:22 * shachaf wants to know ais523's legal name.
02:48:37 <elliott> shachaf: alan imogen sarkozy
02:48:45 <ais523> elliott: that seems a little implausilbe
02:50:24 <elliott> OK, time to reduce my todo list to one entry
02:50:33 <pikhq_> Seems to me it'd be much better to be ais467 with a name like that.
02:51:03 -!- quintopia has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds).
02:51:06 * elliott attempts to figure out the joke
02:51:20 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
02:51:31 <shachaf> elliott: map length . words
02:52:18 <elliott> right, his real name is atoms is sad
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02:53:38 <elliott> OK, todo list now has one entry.
02:54:08 <lambdabot> Local time for shachaf is Thu Apr 26 19:54:05 2012
02:54:47 <ais523> elliott: is it the redacted one, or is it one of the others?
02:54:56 <shachaf> monqy: Do you live in Hawaii?
02:55:45 <lambdabot> Local time for monqy is Thu Apr 26 19:55:44 2012
02:56:10 <elliott> monqy: guess what im going to play soon
02:56:28 <shachaf> elliott: With monqy's feelings?
02:56:52 <Sgeo> I got what looks like a Twitter phishing email, but it just links to some online pharmacy thing
02:57:09 <shachaf> Too much spam in one place.
02:57:25 <ais523> Sgeo: where were you hoping it would link?
02:57:41 <Sgeo> ais523, to an actual site pretending to be Twitter
02:59:06 -!- elliott has set topic: illegal | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/.
03:00:09 <shachaf> Apparently that's a real site.
03:00:15 <shachaf> It doesn't pretend to be Twitter, though. :-(
03:04:43 <Sgeo> elliott, where?
03:04:49 <Sgeo> I know it's available on some Crawl server
03:05:12 <elliott> by robotfindskitten i mean crawl
03:05:48 <monqy> them brits do the darndest things
03:06:17 <shachaf> does crawl have mail daemone :'(
03:06:26 <monqy> it's not like it's an issue
03:06:48 <monqy> overvaluing piety is a great way to abyssdie
03:06:55 <monqy> also die in general
03:07:19 <shachaf> Playing crawl is a great way to die.
03:07:35 <shachaf> I die 80% more when I'm playing crawl.
03:08:11 <elliott> am i surrounded by heavy water
03:08:55 <shachaf> elliott: whats'e your username
03:09:12 <elliott> ok im not terrible (sometimes) but im at least really bad
03:10:05 <elliott> telnet crawl.develz.org 345
03:10:30 <elliott> what the heck am this lava do here
03:11:11 <monqy> elliott: elevator vault
03:11:28 <elliott> how far down will it go???
03:11:37 <monqy> just skips over one level
03:11:45 <monqy> megacoincidencelucky
03:11:54 <elliott> wow have they enabled like
03:11:57 <elliott> extra weird formations in trunk today or something
03:12:05 <monqy> that's just another vault
03:12:19 <elliott> shachaf: i play trunk crawl
03:12:34 <shachaf> elliott: you diede colon open parenthesis
03:13:42 <monqy> ring of fire gives you rC- watch out !
03:14:22 <monqy> minus a pip of resist cold
03:14:26 <monqy> so if you have zero pips that means you get
03:14:32 <monqy> cold vulnerability!
03:14:42 <monqy> unless you find something fiery
03:14:46 <monqy> then you can put it on for the rF+
03:15:01 <elliott> shachaf you are ruining my crawlsperience :(
03:15:17 <elliott> i need the gentle wisdom of monqy in times like this
03:15:59 <shachaf> monqy: can ie have some wisdom
03:16:30 <shachaf> Washington State Destination Marketing Organizations
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03:17:52 <shachaf> elliott: why ddint you telle me about
03:17:53 <shachaf> http://www.humblebundle.com/
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03:59:53 <fungot> ^<lang> <code>; ^def <command> <lang> <code>; ^show [command]; lang=bf/ul, code=text/str:N; ^str 0-9 get/set/add [text]; ^style [style]; ^bool
04:00:11 <HackEgo> shubshub: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
04:00:16 <shachaf> fungot: Say hi to shubshub
04:00:17 <fungot> shachaf: no need for anything other than c where it's the only reasonable way to get to it. the interviewee thought it was
04:00:38 <HackEgo> SHUBSHUB: AGAIN: WELCOME TO THE INTERNATIONAL HUB FOR ESOTERIC PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE DESIGN AND DEPLOYMENT! FOR MORE INFORMATION, CHECK OUT OUR WIKI: HTTP://ESOLANGS.ORG/WIKI/MAIN_PAGE
04:00:49 <shubshub> I was HERE YESTERDAY! no need to welcome me
04:00:58 <HackEgo> shubshub: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
04:00:58 <elliott> Welcome to the channel, shubshub!
04:03:12 <shubshub> elliot do you know anything about Batch? I Need to know if i can set the contents Of a file as a Variable for Later use?
04:03:26 <ais523> shubshub: it's a backquote, not a quote
04:03:54 <shubshub> anyway can someone answer my question?
04:04:10 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: : not found
04:04:13 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: lol: not found
04:04:30 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: foundit: not found
04:06:31 <pikhq_> I should *not* be swapping like crazy ATM.
04:06:45 <pikhq_> I have a gig of RAM free and somehow I'm in a constant swap.
04:10:37 <ais523> the number of segfaults flying around recently is crazy, I bet there's something wrong with some commonly used library
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04:13:13 <shubshub> can someone Help me with my batch programming?
04:13:31 <shubshub> I Need to run commands in the batch file and the commands come straight from a text document
04:13:45 <fungot> elliott: mä lähen nukkuu öit. if 1700 is too late! i mean,
04:13:48 <fungot> elliott: but constants with mutable parts. then an event message is generated. iirc, some security enhancement patches to linux made use of a channel to be on the computer
04:13:49 <fungot> elliott: simply returning f is icky since that might have been touched by his noodly appendage you would know that car is unsafe.
04:13:49 <fungot> elliott: i shall finalize srfi 46, however, this all should be a /etc/ postfix/ sasl/ fnord? here's not even the vms kernel!
04:14:06 <Sgeo> Why do I keep dreaming of making Worst Shot Ever?
04:14:11 <ais523> meanwhile, Nibbles is busy running at 100% CPU quite a bit
04:14:41 <ais523> what makes you think fungot can run batch files at all?
04:14:41 <fungot> ais523: how is it " break the bot" fnord?
04:15:03 <pikhq_> Also: no, minecraft, left click is *not* "drop".
04:15:05 <fungot> shubshub: fnord sounds like something fnord.)
04:16:43 <pikhq_> LET ME MOVE MY GOD DAMNED INVENTORY AROUND YOU BITCH
04:17:26 <ais523> OK, when it's appearing to work, it's still running at 30% CPU, which is far too much for such a simple game
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04:17:46 <ais523> I would worry it's my code, except that it's worked fine in the past with my code…
04:18:57 <ais523> wow Unity sucks at figuring out which program a process belongs to
04:19:05 * pikhq_ flips off all software
04:19:26 <Sgeo> Including the Freenode servers?
04:19:40 <pikhq_> Sure, why the fuck not.
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04:20:56 <elliottasdf> "Looks like it still presents a blocking interface, so it throws away much of the benefit of async IO. :-("
04:20:59 <pikhq_> Linux decides to swap when there's a whole *gig of free RAM* available, Minecraft decides to drop whenever I click on any item in my inventory...
04:21:11 <pikhq_> Yeah, I'm just declaring today a day to hate all software.
04:21:29 <ais523> and Unity can't figure out what to do if multiple .desktop files describe the same executable
04:21:40 <kmc> linux swappiness is tunable
04:21:49 <kmc> eager swapping is a defensible design choice
04:22:12 <pikhq_> /proc/sys/vm/swappiness remains 0.
04:22:32 <pikhq_> kmc: It isn't defensible when it's swap thrashing.
04:30:28 * pikhq_ comes of the opinion that swap should simply be forbidden...
04:37:01 <Deewiant> elliottasdf: Pong, if it's still relevant
04:37:24 <Sgeo> monqy, elliottasdf UPDATE
04:37:39 <elliottasdf> Deewiant: Probably not, unless esolangs.org's nameservers end in linode.com for you.
04:43:12 <pikhq_> lvremove /dev/frodo/swap ;# Suck it, Linux!
04:50:44 <monqy> oh is that what it does
04:51:12 <shubshub> Its Batch except programmed using ?<insert name of number? (eg: ?five??three??eight??fifteen? ?eight??nine? would Output echo hi and Output hi to the screen)
04:52:00 <shubshub> Im gonna add it to the list of languages
04:54:21 <elliottasdf> note that "Please link only to existing article pages on this wiki. A stub is enough to start with, as long as it has a link to further information. Languages with no link to a description are likely to be deleted."
04:56:05 <shubshub> How do I put the text into a code box?
04:56:32 <monqy> (into the code box)
04:57:04 <monqy> your hands & fingers
04:57:34 <elliottasdf> http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Contents
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05:14:58 <shubshub> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Numeric_Batch
05:15:55 <ion> Numeric_Bitch
05:17:49 <shubshub> Im making adjustments currently also to make it better and More Useable
05:18:16 <shubshub> Make fungot Learn Numeric_Batch
05:18:17 <fungot> shubshub: about 200g chocolade daily keeps a mind and body seem to have
05:18:32 <fungot> shubshub: 6.001 test on friday? coming back home in two days some time in the evenings nowadays, it's possible to become internationally famous after your suicide even if you had
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05:29:55 <shubshub> Maybe an infinite Line Interpreter next?
05:31:13 <shubshub> omg wtf is this guy even real?
05:32:42 -!- cheater has joined.
05:32:58 <fungot> shubshub: oklotalk itself will be transformed... dang it. it is based on one of the big problems with scheme
05:33:05 <fungot> ^<lang> <code>; ^def <command> <lang> <code>; ^show [command]; lang=bf/ul, code=text/str:N; ^str 0-9 get/set/add [text]; ^style [style]; ^bool
05:33:32 <EgoBot> 41 ++++++++[>+++++++++++++>+>><<<<-]>.+.>++. [120]
05:35:36 <monqy> shachaf: omg wtf is this guy even real?
05:39:42 -!- cheater_ has joined.
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05:42:53 <fungot> echo reverb rev rot13 rev2 fib wc ul cho choo pow2 source help hw srmlebac uenlsbcmra scramble unscramble asc ord prefixes tmp test celebrate wiki chr ha rainbow rainbow2
05:43:03 <fizzie> That's what ^def is used for.
05:43:10 <shubshub> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Numeric_Batch
05:43:16 <fizzie> ^def tmp ul (blahbleh)S
05:43:36 <fungot> Usage: ^def <command> <lang> <code>
05:44:02 <fungot> Usage: ^def <command> <lang> <code>
05:44:15 <fungot> Usage: ^def <command> <lang> <code>
05:44:31 <shubshub> fizzie: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Numeric_Batch My programming language :D
05:45:45 -!- elliottasdf has joined.
05:47:07 <monqy> elliottasdf: have you seen Numeric Batch, Shubshub's programming language? :D
05:48:23 <shubshub> I worked Hard on Numeric Batch Now to Mix and Match the translation Numbers
05:48:39 <elliottasdf> fizzie: when is fungot gonna support numeric batch
05:48:40 <fungot> elliottasdf: of course it can't be as good as the 2nd ( ecs) ( by step). variable resolutions can have some vouchers, they're fnord acceptable within everyday conversation. fnord.
05:49:03 <fizzie> elliottasdf: Right as soon as someone else does the Befunge interp.
05:49:30 <fungot> http://git.zem.fi/fungot/blob/HEAD:/fungot.b98
05:49:34 <fizzie> It's the language fungot's written in.
05:49:34 <elliottasdf> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Befunge it's crap really
05:49:35 <fungot> fizzie: i'm going to bed earliest at like 3am, maybe 6am here, and i was planning
05:49:55 <fizzie> (Away must get to work.)
05:50:02 <shubshub> It should be easy to Interperet Numeric Batch In Befunge its only converting the numbers into letters and executing them as batch code
05:50:34 <shubshub> fizzie: please ill give u a cookie :D
05:50:49 <fizzie> I'm willing to accept a regular batch interpreter in Befunge too.
05:50:50 <shubshub> you might wanna wait a bit while I Mix and match the translation code ok
05:51:22 <Deewiant> It's the "executing them as batch code" part that is hard.
05:51:40 <monqy> what's so hard about batch code ? it's just batch code.
05:52:04 <shubshub> yea its basically Taking text and using it as code
05:52:28 <Deewiant> Well, not hard as such, just a fair amount of work.
05:53:53 <Deewiant> There's what, 10 commands, many with a lot of options, and probably some syntax gotchas.
05:54:22 <shubshub> Deewiant: there is a shitload more than 10 commands In Batch
05:54:45 <monqy> batch can do ~anything you want~
05:54:49 <Deewiant> shubshub: call, echo, for, goto, if, pause, shift, setlocal/endlocal
05:54:50 <monqy> a lot of comamnds, man
05:55:21 <Deewiant> I guess it does because it's not a typical comment in that you can't use some characters inside it.
05:55:59 <Deewiant> Most of those aren't batch commands, those are programs.
05:56:25 <elliottasdf> Deewiant: It's not Numeric Batch if it can't do everything Batch can.
05:56:56 <shubshub> fizzie: elliotasdf: Im Updating Numeric Batch Now
05:57:17 <monqy> is he updating numeric batch now? he didn't tell me
05:57:35 <monqy> shubshub: please be updating numeric batch now
05:57:47 <Deewiant> Batch can run programs you've got installed: if you run it on a system without xcopy.exe, it won't run it.
05:57:48 <shachaf> monqy: why dont'e you update numeric batchH!
05:57:48 <monqy> i want my numeric batch updates
05:57:58 <monqy> Sgeo: please put me on the numeric batch update list
05:58:03 <shachaf> shubshub: Please put -- bah.
05:58:18 <elliottasdf> Deewiant: Right. So fungot has to be able to run any command on fizzie's system.
05:58:19 <fungot> elliottasdf: perhaps you could suggest particular dimensions?') on channel in case am being ignored, but the ui is stored as a value of type a and never returning. then you can
05:58:19 <Deewiant> But yeah, apparently some stuff like copy and move are builtins after all.
05:58:39 <Deewiant> elliottasdf: Yep; one hopes that it runs inside a chroot.
05:59:12 <elliottasdf> So if it's not a batch command it can't be possible.
06:00:18 <shubshub> elliotasdf: fizzie: monwy: shachaf: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Numeric_Batch Updated :D
06:00:45 <shachaf> shubshub: Please take me off the numeric batch update list.
06:01:03 <shubshub> didnt know there was a list but ok
06:01:13 <monqy> shubshub, sgeo: please put shachaf on the numeric batch update list
06:01:24 <shachaf> It contains elliotasdf, fizzie, monwy, shachaf
06:01:34 <shubshub> I typod with monwy i meant monqy
06:01:37 <Sgeo> I will not maintain such a list.
06:01:52 <monqy> shubshub: please put Sgeo on the numeric batch update list
06:02:49 <shubshub> elliotasdf: On a scale of 1 to 10 How well is my Programming Language?
06:03:15 <Sgeo> shubshub, it's a batch derivative, correct?
06:03:39 * shubshub should call the interpreter NumericCMD.exe then :D
06:04:16 <Sgeo> Theoretically untranslatable?
06:04:24 <Sgeo> Here, have some theoretically untranslatable stuff
06:05:01 <Sgeo> enhrundpybwydyenamdrmbedd
06:05:19 <Sgeo> (Note: May not be theoretically untranslatable due to horrifically poor randomization)
06:07:07 <shubshub> fizzie: are you working on fun*ot yet (dont want fun*ot to talk :D)
06:09:03 <Sgeo> fungot, don't say a word
06:09:11 <fungot> shubshub: mainly i can't use
06:09:18 <fungot> shubshub: that's bj's territory" source), but now it hangs up when loading it
06:09:24 <fungot> shubshub: undefined variable ' call/ cc diverts the control flow clear.)) be false mathematically.
06:09:35 <fungot> shubshub: trying to figure out how to use
06:09:39 <Deewiant> If you're so excited about getting NB in fungot, why don't you write the interpreter in Befunge yourself?
06:09:39 <fungot> Deewiant: what do you do signatures? hahaha. ( back to work.
06:09:52 <Sgeo> Wow, I'm a jackass
06:09:55 <shubshub> Deewiant: i dont know how to use Befunge
06:10:16 <Sgeo> shubshub, reading the page on the esolang wiki may be a start
06:10:17 <Deewiant> Read the wiki page and the related links, play around? How did you learn anything?
06:11:08 <shubshub> id rather someone who is fluent In Befunge to write it :D
06:11:12 <monqy> come on, befunge isn't just taking text and using it as code, like batch is
06:12:10 <shubshub> why did fungot have to be programmed in Befunge?
06:12:11 <fungot> shubshub: too much irc going on for embedded scheme i.e. micro controller based specially pics/ fnord
06:12:21 <shubshub> fungot, why are you programmed in Befunge?
06:12:22 <fungot> shubshub: ( 1/ 2 to the complex plane to the complex list posited in most biology texts, is simply reproduction with inherited change. viruses are _very_ hard to compare since stalin compiles to c, as opposed to
06:12:28 <monqy> fizzie: you should have programmed fungot in Batch
06:12:28 <fungot> monqy: of zeroes, rather than something that fnord machinecode) means you're officially low-level.
06:12:33 <monqy> fizzie: or better yet, Numeric Batch!
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06:12:59 <shubshub> monqy: Numeric Batch is not fluent enough too Many errors Unless you know how to set a variable to a new line
06:13:02 <elliottasdf> fungot doesn't take text and use it as a program
06:13:02 <fungot> elliottasdf: i don't think it was): learning and writing scheme is that?
06:13:06 <fungot> Madoka-Kaname: what does let lp (... strange. looks like a stable internet and/ or
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06:19:56 <elliottasdf> [An error has been encountered while decoding this message. Please quit and reopen IceChat.]
06:21:22 <Sgeo> elliottasdf, you're a worse jackass
06:21:35 <elliottasdf> [An error has been encountered while decoding this message. Please quit and reopen IceChat.]
06:21:40 <elliottasdf> [An error has been encountered while decoding this message. Please quit and reopen IceChat.]
06:22:06 <shubshub> How do i set a new line in a batch variable>
06:22:20 <elliottasdf> Connection error -18 (Connection reset by peer).
06:22:40 <Sgeo> shubshub, btw, the reason fungot is not responding is because I have a character between two of the letters in the name, that makes fungot not see its name. However, the character is not visible to us.
06:22:41 <fungot> Sgeo: where is the break? you call yourself a scener? ld i guess i'm what that page was that there are 32 registers in the order they evaluate.) sort of.
06:22:55 <Sgeo> Oh, I forgot to do it for the second fungot
06:23:23 <fungot> elliottasdf: ok. but it parses almost all useful variants. maybe takes a bit more
06:23:51 <fungot> shubshub: no, i think. hm.
06:23:59 <fungot> shubshub: what language was it written by mankind? :) fnord/ fnord/ english/ wa/ fnord/ fnord
06:24:08 <fungot> shubshub: same thing :p they might want to write a procedure that accepted a continuation that takes a function which reduces streams of a's to values of type type name, with the fnord
06:24:15 <fungot> shubshub: and a muffle with a port fnord. :_) if i just had to spoil the moment, i prefer scheme
06:24:45 <fungot> http://git.zem.fi/fungot/blob/HEAD:/fungot.b98
06:24:52 <fungot> ^<lang> <code>; ^def <command> <lang> <code>; ^show [command]; lang=bf/ul, code=text/str:N; ^str 0-9 get/set/add [text]; ^style [style]; ^bool
06:26:01 -!- elliottasdf has changed nick to elliott.
06:26:03 -!- elliott has quit (Changing host).
06:26:03 -!- elliott has joined.
06:26:27 <augur> shubshub: uh.. hi?
06:26:45 <shubshub> elliott: Can You Make a program that will set a variable then echo it on screen Using Numeric Batch? can you do that for me?
06:27:51 <elliott> Usually Linux, right now OS X since my keyboard broke.
06:28:25 <elliott> Also, I don't really know batch.
06:28:31 <Sgeo> elliott, the second fungot in my line.
06:28:32 <fungot> Sgeo: don't people have anything better to do
06:28:34 <elliott> Also I don't feel like it.
06:28:49 <Sgeo> shubshub, nope.
06:29:06 <Sgeo> You could try Googling
06:29:08 -!- shubshub has changed nick to shubshub[A].
06:29:08 * shubshub[A] is set as away : Reason(Dinner Mmmmm NOM NOM)
06:29:20 <monqy> i love dinner mmmmm nom nom
06:29:41 <Sgeo> shubshub is asking for a program in numeric batch, right?
06:29:47 <elliott> monqy: yOU MISSPELLED "OM NOM NOM!"!!!!
06:29:52 <Sgeo> Couldn't e just write it in regular batch then translate
06:29:59 <elliott> monqy: please correct other peoples mistakes
06:29:59 <Sgeo> It looks like a trivial translation
06:30:06 <elliott> Sgeo: if you're so smart why don't YOU do it
06:34:19 <fizzie> Deewiant: It does run under a chroot.
06:36:50 <ais523> elliott: hmm, improved interfaces can be annoying
06:37:06 <ais523> now the touchpad does multitouch, I can two-finger-tap for right-click and two-finger-drag for scrolling
06:37:16 <ais523> and the lack of any gesture for middle-click is really starting to grate
06:37:25 <ais523> I did, it doesn't work
06:37:30 <ais523> three fingers is the most obvious thing to check
06:37:42 <elliott> if it's the synaptics driver, there'll be some premade thing on google for it
06:37:44 <ais523> but that probably means messing around with config files by hand
06:37:46 <elliott> might even just be a setting
06:39:47 -!- shubshub[A] has changed nick to shubshub.
06:39:47 * shubshub is no longer away : Gone for 10 mins 39 secs
06:40:32 <shubshub> Sgeo the reason I cant do that is because I dont know how to set a newline in a batch variable
06:40:32 <elliott> ais523: we don't do away-announce scripts here, right?
06:40:50 <elliott> im not sure i was checking
06:40:50 <Sgeo> shubshub, so Google for that information
06:41:11 <quintopia> elliott: you're right. we totally dont
06:41:22 <elliott> who made quintopia an op and where do they live
06:41:26 <ais523> elliott: away-announce scripts in any even moderately large channel get you yelled at
06:41:38 <fizzie> elliott: freenode guidelines say we don't. ("be considerate" http://freenode.net/poundfreenode.shtml "-- changing your current nick to nick|away --")
06:41:46 <ais523> I think the correct reaction to them is to yell at them here, too
06:42:05 <fizzie> On the other hand, it wasn't "nick|away", it was "nick[A]", which is a completely different thing altogether.
06:42:17 <elliott> fizzie: "Please do not intentionally annoy or harass users, whether by spamming, trolling, flamebaiting, astroturfing, soapboxing or typing in all caps."
06:42:35 <elliott> "Be civil and respect other people's opinions, whether you agree or not. Please do not be rude, judgmental or belittling. Respond to incivility with greater civility and respect. Please do not accuse others or request kicks or bans in public, engage in personal attacks, intentionally offend or provoke others. Do not discuss or taunt users who have been removed, kicked, banned, quieted or devoiced. Be positive."
06:42:36 <shubshub> fizzie: Hows the Numeric Batch Interpreter coming along in Befunge?
06:42:56 <fizzie> I'm not the one who's doing it, someone else is.
06:43:01 <elliott> fizzie: Hey, that's not the right guidelines.
06:43:12 <elliott> Making me think civility is required.
06:43:17 <fizzie> elliott: Oh, whoops. I blame Google.
06:43:27 <elliott> I've been doing a lot of that lately.
06:43:48 <fizzie> elliott: I got confused because they also have a page called "Channel Guidelines" in general.
06:44:20 <Sgeo> I blame shubshub
06:44:43 * Sgeo unblames shubshub
06:44:44 <fizzie> It's the blame game, I see.
06:44:51 <monqy> I didn't do anything!
06:45:42 <elliott> It's a freenode guideline to give it to anyone blamed.
06:46:25 <fizzie> It's best to do a lot of +b'ing in the winter, since it raises the channel temperature, and hypothermia is serious business.
06:46:32 <shubshub> fizzie: which Befunge are you using?
06:46:59 <quintopia> you shouldnt go swimming for at least 30 minutes after any +b
06:47:23 <shubshub> and did you make the brainfuck interpreter?
06:47:32 <fizzie> And the Underload one.
06:47:40 <elliott> see, numeric batch should be easy then
06:47:49 <shubshub> its far to confusing for me to do Numeric Batch One could you please make a Numeric batch one :D
06:48:08 <shubshub> all it has to do is translate the numbers into letters
06:48:20 <fizzie> That's not all it has to do.
06:48:22 <shubshub> It doesnt have to execute them
06:48:42 <shubshub> but fung.ot is not allowed to execute them
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06:49:17 <elliott> it can be if you believe it to be
06:49:18 <shubshub> i did it so the bot wouldnt talk
06:49:33 <fungot> quintopia: i liked the part where i got that working ( sort of)
06:49:40 <fungot> quintopia: i mean " always", and " jaws".).
06:49:58 <Sgeo> shubshub, elliott is joking when he says that's not allowed
06:50:19 <shubshub> fizzie: cant you program the interpreter In another language for f.ungot to execute?
06:50:21 <elliott> Sgeo: what right do you have to declare me to be nonserious
06:50:34 <elliott> i strongly object to any attempt to avoid nickpinging fungot as a subversion of its code
06:50:34 * shubshub declares elliott nonserious by tying him up
06:50:35 <fungot> elliott: and many times c programs become actually slower because c lacks the necessary system libs for the compat_sunos thing to work,
06:50:51 <elliott> ais523: am i still a minor
06:51:14 <ais523> elliott: in the UK, yes
06:51:18 * shubshub is going to make a Numeric Batch interpreter In Numeric Batch :D
06:51:21 <elliott> ais523: but I live in Iceland!
06:51:27 <monqy> wow esoteric is just a 16 party isn't it
06:51:39 <quintopia> i would live in iceland. that place is cool.
06:51:42 <Sgeo> shubshub, isn't Numeric Batch already written in Bash?
06:51:42 <elliott> you grow fast when bricking brains
06:51:51 <Sgeo> So Batch -> Numeric Batch
06:52:01 <shubshub> But I wanna see if its gonna be able to self interpret its self
06:52:07 <fizzie> Anyway, I don't want any separate-executable dependencies for fungot, it's a purity thing.
06:52:07 <fungot> fizzie: what does shift and reset are interesting from a practical standpoint, yes, mztake! right! wrong! red! green! fnord!
06:52:16 <elliott> fizzie: that just means you have to implement dos in fungot
06:52:17 <fungot> elliott: plenty of lisps will probably do so in schlep? i can do with define-macro you cannot do anything else?
06:52:20 <fizzie> I think that's it concurring.
06:52:30 <elliott> fizzie: fungot can do it with define-macro
06:52:30 <fungot> elliott: if i use fnord for my login needs.
06:52:31 <Sgeo> shubshub, well, interpreted language. I may be mistaken, but you may have to run the interpreter in the interpreter
06:52:35 <elliott> can't you even do it with anyhting else?
06:52:38 <Sgeo> Shohould be no problem
06:52:52 <shubshub> Sgeo: I Know but ill code it properly to work :D
06:52:59 <quintopia> fungot did it with define-macro in the conservatory
06:53:00 <fungot> quintopia: ( lambda ( x) ( x y)))
06:53:05 <ais523> right! wrong! red! green! fnord!
06:53:12 <shubshub> Ill call the Numeric Batch coded Numeric Batch Interpreter NumericNumericCMD
06:54:31 <Sgeo> shubshub, are you going to make a compiler?
06:54:49 <shubshub> actually screw the self interpretation idea
06:55:15 <shubshub> because of the interpreter converting the ?one? and stuff in the translator
06:55:17 <Sgeo> shubshub, converting your batch to numeric batch is not complicated at all
06:55:38 * itidus20 is surprised by the quintopia and flees.
06:55:43 <Sgeo> I may be wrong, I haven't taken a good look, I may have wrongly assumed the conversion to be trivial
06:56:11 <shubshub> compiler finished it converts the code into batch which then you can compile to exe :D
06:57:10 <quintopia> itidus20: do you think .ot is a tld?
06:58:19 <shubshub> SGeo: I made a Numeric2Batch Converter :D
06:58:27 <Sgeo> Congratulations
06:58:49 <shubshub> Just by adding these lines of code to the interpreter
06:58:49 <shubshub> echo @echo off >> converted.bat
06:59:16 <shubshub> itidus20: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Numeric_Batch
06:59:53 <itidus20> shubshub: i know nothing. but i have seen the chat thusfar
07:00:51 <itidus20> numeric batch makes you a more productive member of the esolang community than me :D
07:01:07 <shubshub> its a Batch Derivitave written in batch
07:01:58 <Sgeo> Category:Shameful
07:02:12 <ais523> shubshub: http://esolangs.org/wiki/ESME
07:02:31 <ais523> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Esme
07:03:32 <elliott> ais523: meh, Esme is not the worst
07:03:39 <ais523> I also recommend reading the talk page
07:03:43 <ais523> elliott: depends on your definition of worst
07:04:00 <elliott> ais523: well, it's amusing in a kind of impossibly nonsense way
07:04:12 <elliott> something like FURscript is just terrible
07:04:26 <elliott> I think Snack might be the worst, though, because it's terrible /and/ devoid of any effort whatsoever
07:04:27 <shubshub> should I Make a Joke Language?
07:04:41 <ais523> elliott: I think it's to do with whether for "worst", you want something that's closest to 0 good, or closest to minus infinity good
07:04:44 <shubshub> Numeric Batch isnt a joke language
07:05:07 <Sgeo> elliott, is Ook a joke language?
07:05:52 <Sgeo> I am not a joke! I may be a joke, but I am not not turing-complete!
07:05:56 <ais523> elliott: I don't think Snack is even deserving of Shameful
07:06:01 <elliott> fizzie: Whoa, you made EDITS.
07:06:13 <ais523> but then, I consider Shameful to be for things that are actively bad, rather than just passively bad
07:06:15 <elliott> ais523: are you saying the author of Snack does not deserve to feel shame for their creation?
07:06:34 <fizzie> elliott: I wanted to do my EDITS here on-channel, but the person disappeared.
07:07:38 <ais523> we still need [[Category:Not brainfuck derivatives]] btw
07:08:02 <ais523> hmm, esolang idea: an esolang whose entire purpose for existing is to not be a BF deriv
07:08:06 <shubshub> if %lol%==say echo Hello World
07:08:06 <shubshub> if %lol%==dont_say echo Hello World
07:08:07 <shubshub> if %lol%==saysay echo HelloHello WorldWorld
07:08:23 <elliott> ais523: haha, dibs on that
07:09:17 <shubshub> isnt Snack a brainfuck derivitage
07:09:52 <fizzie> But some people do eat brainfuck derivatives for snacks.
07:10:13 <shubshub> I should make a Language that only sometimes works :D ill call it MaybeNumericBatch
07:10:22 <Sgeo> I want there to be a language that would be hard to make a derivative of
07:10:28 <Sgeo> Not sure how that could possibly work though
07:10:39 <Sgeo> shubshub, there are languages like that
07:10:42 <monqy> shubshub: you know snack? :D
07:11:00 <shubshub> ill just reprogram my language to Only work if a certain random number is met :D
07:12:29 <quintopia> heres my language: assign a natural ordering on TMs. let the program consisting of n ":D" emoticons perform the same function as the nth TM in this ordering.
07:13:50 <itidus20> i could think of some truely awful languages, so because they are so bad i won't mention them.
07:15:14 <itidus20> the longer i hold them captive the more they begin to mutate in my thoughts.
07:15:40 <elliott> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Not_a_brainfuck_derivative
07:15:55 <itidus20> ok this is what occured to me..
07:17:09 <itidus20> a language which takes any finite input and converts it into a well formed html document with all brainfuck characters emphasized
07:18:42 <ais523> itidus20: how is that a language, rather than just a program?
07:19:37 <shubshub> http://esolangs.org/wiki/MaybeNumericBatch :DS
07:20:06 <shubshub> http://esolangs.org/wiki/MaybeNumericBatch :D Yay
07:20:25 <coppro> elliott: can I flesh out semantics for not a brainfuck derivative?
07:20:33 <elliott> coppro: that /is/ the semantics
07:20:36 <ais523> coppro: probably in a different article
07:20:56 <coppro> (I wanted to make it an SKI derivative)
07:21:47 <shubshub> My New programming Language called MaybeNumericBatch its the Joke Language that only sometimes works hehe :D
07:23:07 <itidus20> ais523: that question you just asked is frighteningly difficult
07:23:25 <itidus20> so i suspect i could get away with it >:-)
07:23:50 <shubshub> what Makes a Derivitave a Derivitave??
07:24:01 <elliott> being based on that language
07:24:14 <shubshub> you mean being built in the language its alternating?
07:24:30 <ais523> shubshub: no, simply being intentionally similar
07:24:37 <ais523> so, e.g. MaybeNumericBatch is a NumericBatch derivative
07:24:52 <shubshub> its just a modification of NumericBatch
07:25:26 <shubshub> Has anyone ever Made a Game Maker Language Derivitave???
07:25:26 <ais523> shubshub: that's what makes it a derivative
07:25:29 <ais523> being just a modification of something
07:25:46 <qfr> derivative
07:27:58 <itidus20> im too sleepy or something to really give a good rationale of why X is a derivative of Y but Z is not, nor why X is a language while Y is merely a program.. so i will just admit i am trolling
07:28:31 <ais523> itidus20: it's pretty bad trolling, simply because it's somehow making the channel discussion more intelligent on average
07:29:50 <ais523> (this is the opposite problem from what bad trolling normally has)
07:30:42 <elliott> ais523: itidus20 has a very special definition of "trolling"
07:30:52 <elliott> the definition is roughly "saying things"
07:31:35 <ais523> elliott: perhaps it's a long drawn-out troll of its own
07:31:44 <ais523> this sentence is either insightful or trolling
07:31:55 <elliott> ais523: you mean we could all be victims of an elaborate aim hecking?
07:32:11 <ais523> elliott: not sure what you mean by that
07:32:13 <elliott> HEY GUYS REMEMBER WHEN THAT GUY LIKED PHP AND WE'LL REFERENCE IT UNTIL THE END OF TIME
07:32:26 <elliott> ais523: sounds like your aim is hecked
07:32:34 <itidus20> well.. what happens if a language is the process of translation between english and finnish?
07:32:57 <ais523> itidus20: type error, I think
07:36:18 <itidus20> on a side note.. whoa my blood sugar testing strips no longer need a code calibration
07:40:09 <itidus20> ok i see where im wrong.. a language doesn't define what it's translated to.
07:41:11 <itidus20> something like that,,, im clueless 8-}
07:42:48 <elliott> monqy: shubshub made a new language :D
07:44:26 <monqy> is it on the wiki i want to read about it :D
07:46:16 <shubshub> http://esolangs.org/wiki/!!!Batch :D
07:47:04 <monqy> i too wonder if its possible :D
07:48:09 <shubshub> Making Programming Languages Is Fun :>
07:48:31 <shubshub> monqy: go make a programming language :D
07:48:35 <ais523> -ok, this is bad enough, I'm bringing out the hyphens-
07:49:11 <shubshub> fizzie: I Made a New Language for u to give to fungot lol\
07:49:11 <fungot> shubshub: ( finitely looping)?
07:49:23 <fungot> shubshub: i see when i moved my program while it was loaded?? i was wanting something that would allow you to become all at once, it'll only make ya stronger
07:49:30 <fungot> shubshub: not my sun laptop?' fnord tap tap tap
07:49:38 <itidus20> set str=?!!!!!!!!!!!!??!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!??!!!!!!!!!!!!?
07:49:42 <fungot> shubshub: spawning a process alone requires more you get owned, it seems.
07:50:03 <elliott> is this upside down because you live in new zealand
07:50:57 <shubshub> elliot: yes i do live in new zealand
07:51:32 <itidus20> !bftext set str=?!!!!!!!!!!!!??!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!??!!!!!!!!!!!!?
07:52:10 <shubshub> ooooh itidus u tryin to make brainfuck interpreter of my language :D
07:52:27 <shubshub> ":DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
07:52:45 <shubshub> !bf_textgen set str=?!!!!!!!!!!!!??!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!??!!!!!!!!!!!!
07:53:00 <shubshub> !bf_textgen set str=?!!!!!!!!!!!!??!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!??!!!!!!!!!!!!?
07:53:17 <itidus20> lol.. the missing ? wasn't why it didn't work
07:53:23 <EgoBot> 41 ++++++++[>+++++++++++++>+>><<<<-]>.+.>++. [93]
07:53:25 <monqy> :o i made a new language
07:53:36 <shubshub> !bf_txtgen set str=?!!!!!!!!!!!!??!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!??!!!!!!!!!!!!?
07:53:39 <EgoBot> 334 +++++++++++[>++++++>++++++++++>+++>+++<<<<-]>>+++++.--------------.+++++++++++++++.>>-.<<-.+.--.-----------------------------------------------------.++.>.<------------------------------...>.>+...<....<<---..------------------------------...>.>....>.<.<.....++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++..>>.<..<<.........>.<-----------------------. [644]
07:53:46 <monqy> its brainfufck but each command is "hi" with the number of is determining what command it is!!!
07:53:53 <elliott> monqy: put it on the wiki!!!
07:54:35 <shubshub> monqy: try and make a new language using !!!Batch :D
07:54:42 <monqy> easter egg: program "hi monqy" flips a coin and it either gives you a high five or makes your computer explode
07:54:42 <quintopia> how about brainfuck, but the commands are all variants on monqy: hi! monqy: halp!
07:54:47 <monqy> but it doesn't work because the coin is too big
07:55:13 <shubshub> monqy: see if u can make a language using !!!Batch :D
07:55:16 <elliott> tell us about how hard it is for you
07:55:29 <monqy> ok i;ll make a language using !!!Batch :D
07:56:19 <shubshub> ill add more things to !!!Batch to help
07:58:10 <monqy> New language ! Maybe!!!Batch Does Everything !!!Batch Does Except It Only "Sometimes" Works If The Random Number Generator Lands On Either 12 Or 35 Then it Will Work :D
07:59:07 <elliott> how do you come up with these
08:00:23 <quintopia> monqy: suggest this one: a language where all the commands are sequences of nullops, and the number of nullops determines how many nullops get performed, and the only symbol in the language is "". (you have to suggest it because it will be a brilliant idea if you say it)
08:00:39 <monqy> why do i have to say it
08:00:58 <shubshub> monqy: try make something thats not !!!Batch Using !!!Batch :(
08:01:09 <elliott> Maybe!!!Batch isn't !!!Batch!
08:01:18 <monqy> NumericBatch using !!!Batch
08:01:19 <elliott> (if the random number generator lands on either 12 or 35)
08:01:58 <monqy> i don't know what it does it's just called BatchFuck
08:02:14 <elliott> is it a brainfuck derivative AND a batch derivative
08:02:37 <monqy> it's also a Snack derivative, sshshhh
08:03:17 <elliott> im going to write my game in batchfuck
08:03:34 <elliott> quintopia: nobody can be married to monqy he's too perfect
08:03:38 <monqy> little known BatchFuck secret: BatchFuck is a UniCode derivative
08:03:42 <elliott> we will have to settle for being married to shubshub
08:03:48 <quintopia> and can you will me the millions BatchFuck will make when you die?
08:04:15 <elliott> i think quintopia will die before monqy
08:04:21 <elliott> unless quintopia assassinates monqy
08:04:40 <quintopia> why would i ever destroy such astounding genius?
08:04:54 <shubshub> !!!Batch Interpreter In !!!Batch
08:05:07 <elliott> !!!Batch interpreter in Snack
08:05:18 * quintopia pronounces that "bang bang bang batch!"
08:05:28 <monqy> anything is possible if you believe hard enough
08:05:39 <elliott> it's pronounced chk chk chk batch
08:05:53 * quintopia claps his hands and believes that monqy will fly
08:05:57 <monqy> bang! bang! bang!.................................~batch~
08:06:05 <itidus20> i think you would need a snack derivate first
08:06:08 <shubshub> quintopia actually its pronounced Explanation Mark Explanation Mark Explanation Mark Batch
08:06:11 <elliott> it took !!!Batch to help monqy fly
08:07:00 <shubshub> If I write ???Batch In !!!Batch There is going to be so much fucking code
08:07:18 <monqy> brainfucking code? :D
08:07:29 <monqy> BatchFucking code? :o
08:07:52 <shubshub> it will be ?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!? Time the amount of number the letter corrosponds to
08:09:40 <itidus20> shubshub: don't worry about how much code there is.. but you may want to automate the process of writing it a bit and not do it entirely by hand
08:10:46 <elliott> like !!!Batch but ! and ? are swapped
08:11:35 <monqy> ‽‽‽Batch for president
08:12:46 <elliott> "he authored the first Haskell compiler, hbc, which remains competitive with the Glasgow Haskell Compiler to this day."
08:13:12 <elliott> http://anil.recoil.org/papers/2011-cufp-scribe-preprint.pdf
08:17:07 <shubshub> Im almost ready to update !!!Batch
08:18:39 <ion> https://www.google.com/search?q=zerg+rush
08:20:40 <elliott> is it a starcraft anniversary or sth
08:24:17 <quintopia> the zerg 'o's won...i didnt realize i was supposed to kill them
08:34:44 <ion> http://communities-dominate.blogs.com/.a/6a00e0097e337c8833016304a50dcd970d-pi http://communities-dominate.blogs.com/brands/2012/04/paging-truth-police-one-last-time-the-reality-of-nokia-when-criminal-ceo-elop-took-charge-as-ceo-and.html
08:40:17 -!- sebbu has joined.
08:40:17 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host).
08:40:17 -!- sebbu has joined.
08:43:45 <itidus20> there is this language i thought of which is basically a subset of brainfuck which could have some compression uses but probably obvious and blah
08:44:29 <itidus20> hmm ... that doesn't sound as good in practice
08:44:55 <itidus20> i forgot that the lack of a - means it has to cycle around a lot of +'s
08:45:28 <itidus20> and once you reach 3 instructions theres much better things available
08:46:20 <shubshub> itidus20: give me an example of a itidusFuck program lol
08:46:49 <itidus20> nah what i just described is really absurd
08:48:54 <qfr> A guy told me that Brainfuck was supposed to be a research language
08:49:04 <qfr> I thought it was supposed to be humorous
08:49:15 <itidus20> if you assume that you only have 26 characters + a space as 27th character.. then h = +++++++. from there next e = ++++++++++++++++++++++++.
08:50:15 <elliott> http://esolangs.org/wiki/P′′
08:51:02 <ion> Ten points for using the correct prime symbol.
08:51:44 <HackEgo> shubshub: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
08:51:48 <itidus20> ^bf ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.++++++++++++++++++++++++.+++++++..+++.
08:52:33 <itidus20> i forgot that in regular bf i now have to loop 256 times instead of 27
08:53:17 <itidus20> shubshub: don't worry.. i am only using 2 out of the 8 bf instructions
08:54:52 <itidus20> its really a horrifically bad idea
08:56:08 <shubshub> someone should make a brainfuck interpreter using only + and .
08:56:44 <itidus20> + and . isn't really sufficient to do much
08:56:57 <elliott> i would like to report that monqy has died of being not hardcore enough
08:57:00 <elliott> funeral services are tomorrow
08:57:15 <elliott> monqy "not hardcore enough"
08:57:16 <itidus20> it was a horrendously awful idea.. which i didn't realize how awful until just now
08:58:30 <elliott> monqy "not hardcore enough"
08:58:32 <shubshub> ^bf +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
08:58:51 <shubshub> ^bf +++++++++++.+++++++++++++++++
09:00:18 <itidus20> ^bf ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.+++++++..+++.
09:00:36 <shubshub> ^bf +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
09:01:12 -!- shubshub has quit (Excess Flood).
09:01:27 -!- shubshub has joined.
09:02:14 <itidus20> by satisfying coincedence "Hello" is easy thanks to the capital H
09:02:42 <itidus20> i was cheating with an asciitable
09:02:50 <mroman_> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Talk:--C-%3DC-C--
09:02:58 <mroman_> ^- How would you pop from a call-stack?
09:03:33 <itidus20> shub well .. you start at 0 .. and + adds one .. when you reach 256 it instead loops around to 0 again
09:03:46 <itidus20> and . prints the ascii value of the number
09:04:20 <elliott> i would just like to report that monqy has died again
09:04:32 <itidus20> but formally speaking its not always ascii..
09:05:09 <shubshub> HOW ABOUT WE JUST MAKE AN INTERPRETER FOR C++ IN HELLO++
09:05:44 <shubshub> Make C++ Interpreter In hello++
09:06:13 <shubshub> Make C++ interpreter in hello++
09:06:39 <shubshub> make a c++ interpreter in hello++
09:06:52 <shubshub> Make c++ interpreter in hello++
09:07:12 <mroman_> elliott: return was obvious.
09:08:48 <mroman_> I can't figure out how you would write something to the bottom of the stack
09:09:10 <elliott> you can't, that's why it's just a PDA
09:09:42 <elliott> it still gives you infinite storage
09:09:42 <shubshub> !!! OOOh i know what my next programming language can be :)
09:09:55 <mroman_> Of course @infinite storage
09:10:32 <monqy> hey guys im a zombie now
09:10:38 <mroman_> Can PDAs duplicate the top element?
09:10:41 <monqy> is that cool or what
09:10:47 * shubshub makes monqy normal human again
09:11:41 <monqy> oh wait babies can't talk can they
09:11:43 <monqy> ahfahgalojhaohjolahj
09:12:17 * shubshub those things u hang clothes up with
09:12:34 <monqy> those can't talk either can they
09:13:47 <shachaf> shubshub: cani be peg???????
09:13:50 <shubshub> gonna add numbers to my programming language
09:14:16 <monqy> shachaf: be careful what you wish for!! it might almost sound like pig, and then you'll be a pig
09:14:32 <monqy> shachaf: can you oink
09:14:48 <monqy> pegs don't oink do they
09:15:24 <itidus20> ahh pokemon rules. a creature can pronounce it's own name.
09:16:38 <shachaf> I just realized that "plz" is the American spelling of "pls".
09:17:05 <fizzie> If fungot is being too weird, you can switch the style to something less weird.
09:17:06 <fungot> fizzie: you can save up to 500! i'm in a serious bout of mental problems again. how surprising, it seems. darcs get. be sure to pick a name other than those two.
09:17:09 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube
09:17:18 <itidus20> lifthrasiir: that would be a funny name for a pokemon.
09:18:02 <itidus20> shubshub: you could also get away with shub i think if you were a pokemon
09:18:44 <itidus20> i suspect the vocabulary would be shub and shubshub
09:18:57 <shubshub> shub shubshub shubshubshubshubshub
09:19:17 <monqy> what if there was an esolang where the only command was shub
09:20:43 <shubshub> ill make that when I Have finished !!!Batch'
09:22:00 <shubshub> what about if someone made hctab (anyone have any idea what kind of language it would be?)
09:23:10 <elliott> you sure do like batch a lot
09:23:11 <shubshub> so basically the alphabet is reversed from z = a
09:23:21 <shubshub> elliott: its the only language I Know :)
09:23:28 <itidus20> i haven't laughed so hard for quite some time
09:23:33 <monqy> you know english don't you
09:23:33 <elliott> don't you know !!!Batch???
09:23:45 <monqy> how about MaybeNumericBatch
09:23:49 <shubshub> The Only Main Real Language I Know is Batch
09:24:15 <monqy> new study shows english "totally a fake"
09:24:20 <monqy> "don't even bother, wow"
09:25:37 <ais523> shubshub: why don't you combine all these language variants into one single language, with multiple selectable features (e.g. randomness or alphabet reverse or mahjong or whatever)
09:26:04 <monqy> majong is a good feature :D
09:26:40 <itidus20> tetris is too, but could result in your language being sued
09:27:11 <itidus20> the tetris company doesn't like unlicensed tetris stuff to exist
09:27:58 * shubshub is arrested by the tetris company D: ): :( :c
09:28:21 <monqy> that's like a tongue twister, but for your fingers
09:28:26 <monqy> unless you lick your keyboard to type
09:28:29 <monqy> but that's gross don't do it!
09:29:15 <shubshub> I can type at 92 words a minute :D :) c:
09:29:42 <monqy> that's a lot of words
09:30:00 <shubshub> thats like 92 words every minute
09:30:45 <elliott> 10:28 <monqy> unless you lick your keyboard to type
09:33:08 <elliott> ais523: monqy: Arcane Sentiment is back!!!!
09:33:15 <fungot> \o| |o| |o/ \m/ \m/ |o/ \o/ \o| \m/ \m/ \o| |o| |o/
09:33:15 <myndzi> | | | `\o/´ | | | `\o/´ | | |
09:33:16 <myndzi> >\ /`\ /< | /`\ |\ |\ | /| >\ |\
09:33:41 * ais523 declares "wtf the fuck" as a new recursive acronym
09:33:45 <fungot> \o| |o| |o/ \m/ \m/ |o/ \o/ \o| \m/ \m/ \o| |o| |o/
09:33:45 <myndzi> | | | `\o/´ | | | `\o/´ | | |
09:33:45 <myndzi> /^\ /| /| | /^\ |\ /< | /< /`\ >\
09:33:52 <monqy> welcome back, arcane sentiment
09:34:12 <ion> "w" ++ cycle "tf"
09:34:49 <itidus20> but did he do that recursive acronym by accident?
09:35:20 <fungot> Usage: ^def <command> <lang> <code>
09:35:26 <ion> Strange, i saw the \k/ and instantly thought of killer bees.
09:35:58 <elliott> ion: i associate k with bees now too :(
09:36:08 <elliott> shubshub you should play crawl
09:36:28 <elliott> https://tiles.crawl.develz.org/#lobby
09:37:08 <ion> elliott: I normally don’t associate all “k”s to them, but “k” with line art around it did the trick.
09:37:43 <elliott> shubshub: let me know when you've registered and started playing!!!
09:38:01 <elliott> monqy: what am disapointmente,
09:38:09 <monqy> what am disappointmente, indeed
09:38:56 <itidus20> so many freaking bots in here .. almost impossible to recall all the commands
09:40:25 <shubshub> oooo oooo NEW IDEA FOR IRC BOT
09:40:58 <shubshub> Call It !!!Bot its Programed in !!!Batch :D I Updated !!!Batch btw
09:41:23 <shubshub> http://esolangs.org/wiki/!!!Batch Updates: Bunch Of New Commands
09:42:28 <HackEgo> 2012-03-10.txt:01:19:33: <elliott> unless you just mean batch compilation
09:42:33 <HackEgo> 2010-05-05.txt:13:27:03: <Phantom_Hoover> EgoBot: Hello.
09:42:58 <HackEgo> 2012-04-26.txt:10:38:16: <shubshub> bai be back tommorow for more great fun
09:43:35 <HackEgo> 2012-04-26.txt:10:38:16: <shubshub> bai be back tommorow for more great fun
09:43:46 <HackEgo> 2012-04-27.txt:09:42:58: <HackEgo> 2012-04-26.txt:10:38:16: <shubshub> bai be back tommorow for more great fun
09:43:47 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: save: not found
09:44:03 <HackEgo> Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`<command>", or "`run <command>" for full shell commands. "`fetch <URL>" downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert <rev>" can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
09:44:16 <HackEgo> 2011-09-18.txt:04:16:54: <CakeProphet> I think portals will be great fun.
09:44:41 <HackEgo> wget: unable to resolve host address `hi'
09:45:01 <shubshub> HackEgo is Programmed in batch i can tell
09:45:35 <elliott> there happens to be a port to windows
09:45:40 <elliott> that can be invoked in batch scripts
09:45:49 <elliott> but HackEgo is based on sh not batch
09:46:06 <shubshub> well HackEgo is Made in what i call LinuxBatch then
09:46:38 <shubshub> sometimes i think ur all bots lol
09:47:08 * shubshub makes the ok Programming Language
09:47:43 <monqy> ok "the new hi??????"
09:47:52 -!- Deewiant has set topic: ok | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/.
09:47:55 <shubshub> please stop elliot its annoyin
09:47:57 -!- shubshub has set topic: hi.
09:48:02 -!- Deewiant has set topic: ok | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/.
09:48:04 -!- shubshub has set topic: didnt know i could change the topic.
09:48:08 <Deewiant> shubshub: Please don't remove the log URL
09:48:10 -!- Deewiant has set topic: ok | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/.
09:48:27 <elliott> only i get to remove the log url
09:48:45 <monqy> have I ever changed the topic? myabe one time I contemplattd it
09:49:06 -!- shubshub has set topic: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ is a website.
09:49:52 <monqy> "never would have guesseD"
09:49:57 -!- Deewiant has set topic: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ is a website ok.
09:51:08 <shubshub> elliot: can you please stop saying ok :)
09:51:36 <quintopia> it say it is ok for elliott to say ok, ok?
09:53:17 <shubshub> shafuck is impossible to write programs in as it requires breaking shafuck :L
09:54:01 <ion> A certain channel has a bunch of bots running a script that notices short lines (like “:-)” or “ok” or “hi”) said by anyone (including other bots) and repeats the line on the channel with a certain probability (perhaps 0.5 or something).
09:54:42 <monqy> you can't repeat yourself that's against the ruuuules!!!
09:55:06 <ais523> don't do something like that
09:55:17 <monqy> shachaf: nice nose
09:55:26 <monqy> shachaf: how can i get a nose like that
09:55:27 <elliott> see /msg chanserv access #esoteric list for a list of the ops
09:55:32 <shachaf> monqy: Tell a lot of lies.
09:55:57 <monqy> thank you shachaf. dear everyone, shachaf is a good person.
09:55:59 <ais523> but really, it shouldn't matter who's telling you not to spam
09:56:07 <ais523> spamming is bad either way
09:56:07 <elliott> aww, that's out of order in my client
09:56:35 <shachaf> There ought to be a television series called "monqy and the brain".
09:56:47 <shachaf> elliott: would you be the braign
09:57:02 <elliott> sorry, i have only a brick
09:57:08 <elliott> pending reverse PH procedure
09:57:42 <elliott> monqy: btw i got shachafs nose before shachaf
09:57:58 -!- shubshub72 has joined.
09:58:02 <shachaf> elliott: Mine wasn't an em-dash.
09:58:32 <elliott> "lucida grande whats even UP with you???"
09:58:51 <ion> :───────────────┐
09:58:53 <ion> (──────────┘
09:59:00 <elliott> shachaf "ruins everything"
09:59:06 <monqy> ion: wow how do you get a nose like that I want a nose like that
09:59:13 <monqy> I'm sick of my :ーーーーーーーー) nose
09:59:24 <monqy> lies are for losers !
09:59:32 <shubshub72> Hey Guys Lets Hold a !!!Batch Programming Competition
09:59:40 -!- shubshub72 has changed nick to shubshub7280.
09:59:43 -!- shubshub has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds).
09:59:45 -!- shubshub7280 has changed nick to shubshub.
09:59:53 <elliott> œ∑´®†¥¨^øπ“‘åß∂ƒ©˙∆˚¬…æ«`Ω≈√∫~µ≤≥÷
10:00:05 <elliott> ÅÅÍÎÏ`©ÓÒÔÚÒÆŸ˜ÙÇÛÇı¿˘¯˘ˆ¯˜¯
10:00:15 <elliott> rho rho rho your boat gently down the steam
10:00:26 <elliott> merrily merrily merrily merrily life's an aim hecker's dream
10:00:39 <shubshub> #1 ANNUAL !!!BATCH PROGRAMMING COMP BEGINS Make the best !!!Batch program you can and I will Judge them you have 10 Minutes Go!
10:01:02 <elliott> µå¥∫´ ^¬¬ ∆¨ß† †å¬˚ ¬^˚´ †˙^ß
10:01:12 <monqy> set str=?!!!!!??!!!??!!!!!!!!??!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!??!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!??!!!!!!!!??!!!!!??!!!!!!!!!!!!??!!!!!!!!!!!!??!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!??!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!??!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!??!!!!!!!!
10:01:45 <shachaf> Or, as they spell it in Britain, a "mase".
10:01:54 <monqy> oh I missed a thing
10:01:56 <monqy> set str=?!!!!!??!!!??!!!!!!!!??!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!??!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!??!!!!!!!!??!!!!!??!!!!!!!!!!!!??!!!!!!!!!!!!??!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!??!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!??!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!??!!!!!!!!?
10:01:56 <elliott> shachaf: ~ø∑ ^ ~´´∂´ å ~øß´ µåΩ´
10:02:09 <ion> Some line drawing characters for your enjoyment:
10:02:27 <shachaf> elliott: "are you pressing option on a mac os x keyboarde"
10:02:30 <ion> I mean, nose drawing characters
10:02:33 <elliott> (shachaf, ion, monqy, ais523, shubshub)
10:02:47 <shachaf> I WANT TO SEE ION'S BOX ART
10:03:03 <ion> éøøíóþþ, ßhá©háf, µóñäü, áí߀²³, ßhúbßhúb
10:03:24 <shachaf> ais523: Can you kick everyone from this channel who isn't ion?
10:03:26 <ion> It wasn’t art, it was just nose drawing characters for you.
10:03:45 <monqy> ⌫ is that a pencil
10:04:12 <monqy> wow what's this thing ⇟
10:04:57 <elliott> ais523: ˙´¬¬ø †˙´®´¡ ˙ø∑ å®´ ¥ø¨ †˙^s ƒ^~´ ∂奿
10:04:58 <ais523> besides, nobody would be there to watch
10:05:25 <monqy> "hello" - ⎀ / "ok" - ⇬
10:05:30 <ion> https://gist.github.com/2508095
10:05:40 <shachaf> ais523: OK, just kick me, then.
10:05:47 <shachaf> At least I won't have to bear this channel.
10:05:55 <ion> https://raw.github.com/gist/2508095/04ce1107ba6b130dc87f596940f59373c997e345/line_drawing_characters
10:06:06 <elliott> ion: ~ø⁄ †˙´ π´®ƒø®µå~çe µ¨ßt ∫´ ø~ ÈÂÇ
10:06:06 <ais523> shachaf: do you not realise that /part exists?
10:06:14 <elliott> ion: (no! the performance must be on IRC)
10:06:14 <shachaf> ais523: I DEMAND TO BE KICKED
10:06:37 <monqy> maybe if you complain about wanting to be kicked enough you'll gain kick immunity
10:06:47 <elliott> oerjan already kicked him after he asked to a lot
10:06:50 <elliott> "didn't learn his lessone"
10:06:59 <elliott> i think we should just kick him whenever he asks and apply a three-kick-strike-ban rule\
10:07:26 <shachaf> elliott: "i learnede my lessone which was if your'e annoyinge enoughe youe gete whate youe wante :'("
10:07:48 <shachaf> The ' in :'( is the same as the "'" in "don't".
10:07:50 <shubshub> can i pleae have a million dollars and ill shut up
10:08:50 <ion> Except that don't uses the kluge that approximates both ‘ and ’ so that we can spare the number of keys in our mechanical typewriters and codepoints in ASCII. :'(
10:09:38 <shubshub> ?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!??!!!!!!!!??!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!??!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!??!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!??!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!??!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?
10:09:45 <lambdabot> http://code.haskell.org/lambdabot/COMMANDS
10:10:22 <shubshub> I told u guys to shut up in !!!Batch
10:10:26 <shachaf> HEY EVERYBODY, I heard ion puts two spaces after his periods.
10:10:40 <ion> I don’t have periods. :-\
10:11:08 <elliott> shubshub: irc cheat code: type /part and everyone shuts up
10:11:25 <shubshub> I dont want to part from the channel
10:11:44 <ion> Irssi has a cool easter egg: “/disco dancing”
10:11:45 <monqy> little known monqy trivia: today i saw a note addressed to "eliot"
10:12:15 <monqy> eliot: was it you?
10:12:32 * shubshub slaps monqy with a rainbow trout
10:12:49 <monqy> what happened to the o
10:13:13 <ion> Are rainbow trouts into other trouts instead of the opposite fish?
10:13:23 * shubshub slaps ion with a big red brick
10:13:41 <ion> FWIW, i saw the “o”.
10:13:54 <shachaf> U+2205 [∅] NO LETTER O ALLOWED
10:14:38 <shachaf> "is shubshub a police car"
10:14:38 <elliott> `addquote <shachaf> U+2205 [∅] NO LETTER O ALLOWED
10:14:42 <HackEgo> 847) <shachaf> U+2205 [∅] NO LETTER O ALLOWED
10:14:52 <elliott> shachaf: you should send that to the fake unicode consortium
10:14:57 <shubshub> `addquote <shubshub> IM GOING TO EAT A FACE
10:15:01 <HackEgo> 848) <shubshub> IM GOING TO EAT A FACE
10:15:07 <shachaf> elliott: You should do it and say it was me.
10:15:13 <HackEgo> *poof* <shubshub> IM GOING TO EAT A FACE
10:15:32 <elliott> shachaf: actually, it should probably be NO LATIN CAPITAL LETTER O ALLOWED
10:15:35 <shubshub> `addquote <shubshub> mmmm nom nom
10:15:38 <HackEgo> 720) <Phantom_Hoover> Dinner? At two? <fizzie> It's four here already. See, UTC+2. You need to add a couple of hours. Or was that subtract? I can never get those straight.
10:15:41 <shachaf> elliott: You mean SMALL LETTER O
10:15:45 <elliott> shubshub: stop abusing the bots
10:15:50 <shachaf> elliott: Also, it should use ø instead of ∅
10:16:00 <HackEgo> 848) <shubshub> mmmm nom nom
10:16:13 <HackEgo> 142) (in #irp) <Sgeo> Flonk, ask on #esoteric? <Flonk> Sgeo: yeah well its C++, so not that esoteric :P
10:16:13 <monqy> I can personally relate to 720
10:16:13 <HackEgo> 581) <fizzie> Isn't "strip nomic" just another word for all dating, though?
10:16:18 <HackEgo> 286) <zzo38> However is probably better to have both queen/king and government in case one does bad thing, the other side can argue to them
10:16:19 <monqy> dinner at two in particular
10:16:19 <HackEgo> *poof* <shubshub> mmmm nom nom
10:16:43 <shachaf> U+000F8 [ø] NO LATIN SMALL LETTER O ALLOWED
10:16:47 <elliott> monqy: 720 "only makes sense if you had been there"
10:16:47 <shachaf> U+000F8 [ø] NO LATIN SMALL LETTER O ALLOWED ON THESE PREMISES
10:16:53 <elliott> shachaf: it should be capital o to look more sign-y
10:17:00 <elliott> although SMALL LETTER reads better
10:17:08 <elliott> shubshub: stop telling people to stfu
10:17:23 <shachaf> U+000D8 [Ø] NO LATIN CAPITAL LETTER O ALLOWED
10:17:29 <shachaf> U+000D8 [Ø] NO LATIN CAPITAL LETTER O ALLOWED ON THESE PREMISES
10:17:36 <shachaf> U+000D8 [Ø] LATIN CAPITAL LETTER O-FREE ZONE
10:17:53 <elliott> U+00D8 ANGUISHED BACKWARDS FACE WITH GLASSES
10:17:56 <ion> That would fit to https://plus.google.com/109925364564856140495/posts (whose images are broken since Google™ changed their CSS)
10:18:12 <elliott> ion: 11:14 <elliott> shachaf: you should send that to the fake unicode consortium
10:19:15 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello).
10:19:18 <ion> Today I, ion, accidentally missed a line on IRC.
10:19:20 <shachaf> "whatse the beste unicode codepointe"
10:19:27 <elliott> ion: it was nice knowing you
10:19:30 <elliott> i can help with the seppuku
10:19:53 <shachaf> Truly, a fate worse than death.
10:19:53 <shubshub> elliott I Need and idea for my next programming language'
10:20:23 <shachaf> elliott needs too ideas. he needs too ideas. that's as many as too ones.
10:20:30 <ion> I’ve been meaning to study Forth and Agda in some order.
10:20:43 <shachaf> ion: Forth and Agda are basically the same thing,
10:21:04 <shachaf> So just pick whichever one has the better-sounding name.
10:21:24 <shachaf> elliott: DO YOU KNOW WHAT A RETICULE IS
10:21:42 <shachaf> HINT: IT DOESN'T MEAN A KIND OF LENS USED IN A TELESCOPE
10:21:48 <shachaf> Why did I think it meant that?
10:21:49 <elliott> is it something you do to splines
10:22:06 <elliott> lens in telescoping splines
10:22:11 <ion> `addquote <shachaf> Forth and Agda are basically the same thing
10:22:15 <HackEgo> 848) <shachaf> Forth and Agda are basically the same thing
10:22:21 <elliott> standards people, standards
10:22:23 <HackEgo> *poof* <shachaf> Forth and Agda are basically the same thing
10:22:29 <HackEgo> 797) <fungot> elliott: the new fnord <fungot> elliott: what is the point? nothing changed.
10:22:32 <elliott> was hoping for a really bad quote there
10:22:37 <fungot> shubshub: cowboy coder riastradh: boo!
10:22:49 <shachaf> HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
10:22:54 <fungot> elliott: and then there was one on functional programming in general then java and other languages, but given say a group theory problem, i think
10:24:29 <HackEgo> 715) <oklopol> i don't lie, i tell stories <oklopol> there's no difference <oklopol> *a
10:24:35 <HackEgo> 751) [...] <fizzie> So if someone tells you "you're worth your weight in Ethernet", it's likely they think your worth is less than $2k.
10:24:44 <shubshub> why does elliot always delete my quotes
10:24:55 <elliott> because you never actually said the things you added
10:24:59 <elliott> and also, they're not funny
10:25:05 <HackEgo> *poof* shubshub: !!!Batch
10:25:10 <elliott> it's for quotes people actually said (almost always in this channel)
10:25:18 <elliott> also, there are formatting standards
10:25:49 <shachaf> `addquote <elliott> you can `addquote like whatever you want it don't make no difference if i said it (hi monqy)
10:25:53 <HackEgo> 848) <elliott> you can `addquote like whatever you want it don't make no difference if i said it (hi monqy)
10:26:07 <ion> An `addquote quine
10:26:09 <elliott> i'll leave that because iar
10:26:21 <HackEgo> *poof* <elliott> you can `addquote like whatever you want it don't make no difference if i said it (hi monqy)
10:26:21 <ion> You say it while addquoting it
10:26:48 <elliott> shachaf: Conor McBride came out with a new programming language1
10:26:54 <elliott> https://personal.cis.strath.ac.uk/~conor/pub/Frank/TFM.pdf
10:28:04 <shubshub> !!!Batch is good if you know how to use it
10:28:22 <shachaf> elliott: Have you seen the Mikado?
10:29:28 <elliott> shachaf: You would like that manual, because it does your map-from-mapM thing that you've always wanted.
10:30:43 <ion> I’m sure there’s a `quote of you saying so.
10:31:25 <shachaf> `addquote <shachaf> I want that map-from-mapM thing that Conor McBride's future language, Frank, will eventually describe in its manual (once it comes out).
10:31:29 <HackEgo> 848) <shachaf> I want that map-from-mapM thing that Conor McBride's future language, Frank, will eventually describe in its manual (once it comes out).
10:31:39 <HackEgo> *poof* <shachaf> I want that map-from-mapM thing that Conor McBride's future language, Frank, will eventually describe in its manual (once it comes out).
10:31:49 <shachaf> `addquote <elliott> `delquote 848
10:31:53 <HackEgo> 848) <elliott> `delquote 848
10:32:08 <elliott> that one will be ruined as soon as an earlier quote is deleted
10:32:36 <ion> Oh, that changes other quote IDs? :-(
10:32:50 <ion> That’s wrong.
10:33:28 <elliott> ion: it's been like that for ages, yeah.
10:33:34 <elliott> ion: it's uglier to keep arbitrary sequential identifiers around
10:33:52 <elliott> i would prefer to use a hash prefix or something
10:34:00 <shachaf> You should be able to specify your quote's name.
10:34:16 <shachaf> `superaddquote "fred" <elliott> `delquote "fred"
10:34:19 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: superaddquote: not found
10:34:24 <ion> The entire quote should be the ID, so you’d refer to them by themselves.
10:34:32 <shachaf> That's how lambdabot does it.
10:34:47 <shachaf> But then you couldn't make this trick work. :-(
10:35:32 <elliott> ion: that's a pain to use though
10:35:41 <elliott> hash prefixes accomplish that nicely
10:35:52 <elliott> then you can use any unambiguous prefix to delete
10:35:52 <ion> I was kidding.
10:36:01 <elliott> actually, it could just show the shortest unambiguous prefix
10:36:05 <elliott> so you never type or copy more than necessary
10:36:31 <shachaf> ion: The whole-quote approach isn't so bad.
10:36:38 <elliott> shachaf: Also, after that PDF: https://personal.cis.strath.ac.uk/~conor/pub/Frank/keylog.fk
10:36:41 <shachaf> elliott: But what if you get collisions?
10:37:11 <elliott> shachaf: as i said, it would extend the hash as it becomes more ambiguous
10:37:21 <shubshub> elliott: what should I add Into !!!Batch Now???
10:37:38 <shachaf> elliott: OK, but that means you have the same problem as 848.
10:37:53 <shachaf> As you add quotes the hashes of other quotes change.
10:38:03 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: pie: not found
10:38:06 <HackEgo> Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`<command>", or "`run <command>" for full shell commands. "`fetch <URL>" downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert <rev>" can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
10:38:10 <elliott> shachaf: well, the hashes aren't part of the quotes any more
10:38:14 <elliott> just a UI aid generated when printing the quote
10:38:33 <shachaf> But you still couldn't do `addquote <elliott> `delquote 848
10:38:41 <shachaf> Which was the whole point of this exercize.
10:38:47 <shachaf> "did you see me being americane"
10:38:49 <elliott> shachaf: you'd just have to find a partial collision
10:38:58 <elliott> and hope the prefix doesn't become ambiguous
10:39:02 <shachaf> elliott: But then someone could come along and ruin it. :-(
10:39:20 <lambdabot> help <command>. Ask for help for <command>. Try 'list' for all commands
10:39:27 <shachaf> elliott: Anyway, if the hashes change, what's the advantage over numbers?
10:39:27 <lambdabot> http://code.haskell.org/lambdabot/COMMANDS
10:39:34 <EgoBot> help: General commands: !help, !info, !bf_txtgen. See also !help languages, !help userinterps. You can get help on some commands by typing !help <command>.
10:39:35 <elliott> shachaf: Oh boy, it has mixfix too!
10:39:38 <shachaf> Numbers are also just a display aid.
10:39:43 <EgoBot> languages: Esoteric: 1l 2l adjust asm axo bch befunge befunge98 bf bf8 bf16 bf32 boolfuck cintercal clcintercal dimensifuck glass glypho haskell kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain perl qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 underload unlambda whirl. Competitive: bfjoust fyb. Other: asm c cxx forth sh.
10:40:28 <shachaf> WHERE IS RocketJSquirrel!!!!!
10:40:54 <elliott> shachaf: read that pdf and file its really interestnig
10:41:56 <shachaf> elliott: I don't trust this map.
10:42:04 <shachaf> Where is execution order specified?
10:42:11 <elliott> shachaf: In the definition.
10:42:24 <elliott> shachaf: Just add <$>s and <*>s if it'll make you happy.
10:42:32 <shachaf> What if I want a different order?
10:42:37 <elliott> Then you write it the other way around.
10:43:08 <shachaf> So can any part of it magically become effectful?
10:43:15 <shachaf> For example I can give it "m (X -> Y)"?
10:43:28 <shachaf> Maybe I should just read it.
10:46:08 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
10:46:41 <shubshub> I was gonna Make a BrainFuck Derivitave But Instead I made a Batch derivatave
10:47:31 <Phantom_Hoover> I'm not sure whether instead to brickbrain you for your capitalisation or spelling.
10:47:49 <elliott> I created http://esolangs.org/wiki/Not_a_brainfuck_derivative
10:47:55 <shubshub> http://esolangs.org/wiki/!!!Batch http://esolangs.org/wiki/Numeric_Batch
10:48:00 <elliott> I eagerly await the replacement of my brick with a brain
10:48:12 <Phantom_Hoover> Hello elliott why have you sent this poor soul to their bricks
10:48:33 <shachaf> elliott: Can I edit it to s/is not/is/
10:48:47 <Phantom_Hoover> Also dude categorising it as a Brainfuck derivative doesn't make it one.
10:48:51 <shachaf> What does the "Edit" button mean?
10:49:08 <shubshub> Phantom_Hoover check out my languages http://esolangs.org/wiki/Numeric_Batch and also !!!Batch
10:49:08 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: it's a brainfuck derivative, because it's derived from, and based on, brainfuck
10:50:29 <shachaf> Phantom_Hoover check out my language http://esolangs.org/wiki/English
10:50:36 <Phantom_Hoover> shubshub, OK um quick update on modern English capitalisation rules, you capitalise words at the start of a sentence or if they're the name of something specific.
10:51:48 <shubshub> can you Just look at my languages please
10:52:34 <Phantom_Hoover> I did, I just tried to forget because they're both so horrible.
10:52:54 <shachaf> shubshub is being held hostage by a Hobbit :'(
10:53:47 <shubshub> Phantom_Hoover Well they are Batch derivatives they cant get much better
10:54:33 <elliott> shachaf: Here's more to feed you with: https://personal.cis.strath.ac.uk/~conor/pub/Frank/test.fk
10:55:15 <elliott> Probably read that before the keylogger.
10:55:45 <Phantom_Hoover> Whilst I will give you credit for making both articles so unreadable that the underlying ideas aren't apparent without considerable analysis, I will dock you all that and more for making what appears to be a language in which the only significant feature is that strings are specified by naming the alphabetical indices of the letters.
10:56:07 <elliott> The keylog.fk I linked after the PDF. (Okay, I don't think it's a keylogger.)
10:56:11 <elliott> Actually, this test.fk is a good introduction.
10:56:23 <shachaf> What if I'm too tired to read. :-(
10:56:42 <shachaf> "effect systems > type system" -- Oleg
11:00:05 -!- nortti has joined.
11:00:29 <shachaf> YOU MEAN "BEFORE" USING IT!!!!!!
11:00:32 <shubshub> 99 bottles of bear on the wall 9i9 bottels of bear take one downm pass it around 98 bottles of beer on the wall no more bottles of bear on the wall no more bottles of bear go to the store buy some more 99 bottles of bear on the wall :D
11:00:34 <shachaf> Why am I talking like this again?
11:01:58 <shachaf> elliott: Hmm, this is kind of neat.
11:05:17 <elliott> oh, and I like the if_then_else_ vs cond duality
11:05:24 <elliott> the former is monadic switching
11:05:29 <elliott> the latter is applicative switching
11:05:40 <ion> 99 bugs in the bug tracker, 99 reports of bugs. Take one down and commit a fix, 106 bugs in the bug tracker.
11:05:49 <elliott> ifte mc a b = do { c <- mc; if c then a else b }
11:06:05 <elliott> cond mc a b = (\x y z -> if x then y else z) <$> mc <*> a <*> b
11:06:17 <elliott> except that the condition isn't actually inside the functor in Frank
11:06:20 <ion> mc >>= bool b a
11:06:22 <elliott> but it has to be here to show how they relate :p
11:06:31 <elliott> `addquote <ion> 99 bugs in the bug tracker, 99 reports of bugs. Take one down and commit a fix, 106 bugs in the bug tracker.
11:06:34 <HackEgo> 849) <ion> 99 bugs in the bug tracker, 99 reports of bugs. Take one down and commit a fix, 106 bugs in the bug tracker.
11:06:50 <ion> That wasn’t actually my invention, i think i saw it on Slashdot.
11:08:19 <elliott> shachaf: Oh, that "Frank" name is awful.
11:08:27 <elliott> "It's called "Frank" because it aspires to a smooth interleaving of doing and being."
11:08:28 <ion> to be frank
11:09:09 <shachaf> I GOT IT BEFORE YOU SAID THAT
11:09:55 <shachaf> elliott: Where did you read about it/
11:10:15 <elliott> Frank? "pigworker" and "Frank" got mentioned in passing on #haskell.
11:12:13 <elliott> Dependenciesbase (<5), mtl, newtype, she, void
11:12:18 <elliott> shachaf: You can tell it's pigworker.
11:13:21 <elliott> I've used it a little bit.
11:13:28 <elliott> Not for anything *serious*, but it's not like pigworker does anything serious, either.
11:16:58 -!- shubshub has quit (Quit: For Sale: Parachute. Only used once, never opened, small stain.).
11:20:17 <mroman_> int foo[n]; isn't &foo type int*?
11:21:03 <elliott> do arrays behave funkily there
11:22:04 <mroman_> int* and int** both are initialization from incompatible pointer type
11:22:34 <shachaf> When you do almost anything with it.
11:22:39 <elliott> I know that &foo[0] would be (int *), so...
11:23:28 <shachaf> http://mauke.hopto.org/stuff/c/array-pointer.html
11:25:05 -!- MoALTz has joined.
11:25:11 <mroman_> And int* f = &foo; points to the first element.
11:25:46 <mroman_> gcc throws an incompatible pointer type warning.
11:26:17 <mroman_> from which I conclude, that &foo is neither int* nor int**
11:27:30 <nortti> mroman_: try printf("%i",&foo); gcc warns about the type and tells it when you use -Wall
11:28:06 <shachaf> L.c:5:10: warning: incompatible pointer types initializing 'int *' with an expression of type 'int (*)[5]' [-Wincompatible-pointer-types]
11:31:33 <fizzie> It's because & is one of the listed expections for the "array gets converted to a pointer" rule. C99 6.3.2.1p3: "Except when it is the operand of the sizeof operator or the unary & operator, or is a string literal used to initialize an array, an expression that has type "array of /type/" is converted to an expression with type "pointer to /type/" that points to the initial element of the array ...
11:32:53 <fizzie> It's sensible, but it's confusing people when people keep saying untruely that "arrays are pointers".
11:35:28 <shachaf> elliott: HOW IS IT 04:35 :-(
11:35:44 <lambdabot> Local time for shachaf is Fri Apr 27 04:35:41 2012
11:35:51 <lambdabot> Local time for nortti is Fri Apr 27 14:35:59 2012
11:36:02 <shachaf> elliott: Do you pronounce "nortti" like "naughty"?
11:36:19 <elliott> fizzie: In fairness, C would be much nicer if arrays were pointers.
11:37:04 <elliott> shachaf: How else would you pronounce it?
11:37:29 <shachaf> It's where you pronounce the 'r'.
11:39:24 <shachaf> That's how Americans would pronounce it.
11:40:40 <elliott> but that's how naughty is pronounced
11:41:14 <nortti> you can see correct pronounciation of my nick using this table http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/suomi/fon.html
11:41:15 <Deewiant> Also fi:tti != en:ty, the latter is aspirated and has a shorter t
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11:58:34 <shachaf> elliott: Is there any MONAD TUTORIAL that uses that sort of idea?
11:58:55 <shachaf> 04:46 < shachaf> The equivalent of [Action] when some actions get input from the results of other actions is pretty much a monad.
11:58:58 <shachaf> 04:47 < elliott> FSVO pretty much equal to more or less exactly.
11:59:09 <elliott> http://apfelmus.nfshost.com/articles/operational-monad.html
11:59:12 <elliott> http://apfelmus.nfshost.com/articles/operational-monad.html
11:59:41 <elliott> http://apfelmus.nfshost.com/articles/operational-monad.html
11:59:57 <elliott> http://apfelmus.nfshost.com/articles/operational-monad.html
12:00:13 <shachaf> Except for the three previous times you pasted it into the IRC channel.
12:00:52 <shachaf> How is GADT syntax simultaneously so good and so bad?
12:00:55 <ion> Which one of the previous four links should i open?
12:01:03 <elliott> Open this one: http://apfelmus.nfshost.com/articles/operational-monad.html
12:01:07 <elliott> I made it specially for you.
12:01:07 <ion> Ah, thanks.
12:01:49 <shachaf> elliott: Someone reading that article will probably come away thinking that monads are all about state. :-(
12:04:07 <shachaf> elliott: What's the difference between Codensity and ContT?
12:08:13 <elliott> 13:01 <shachaf> elliott: Someone reading that article will probably come away thinking that monads are all about state. :-(
12:08:21 <elliott> shachaf: Did you not see the Random bit?
12:09:01 <elliott> That will rather quickly dissuade any notion of monads just being state.
12:09:18 <shachaf> Random number generation is basically State.
12:09:22 <shachaf> And parsers are basically State.
12:09:39 <elliott> shachaf: You clearly didn't actually read the thing, since it shows a very non-state-like implementation of Random.
12:09:44 <elliott> And parsers are not "basically State".
12:10:04 <shachaf> (I'm using this in the Forth-Agda meaning of "basically" at this point.)
12:10:04 <elliott> No, especially since this one does N outcomes.
12:10:25 <elliott> OK, I won't bother responding, then.
12:13:08 <ion> This discussion needs Godwining. Hitler.
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12:13:57 <shachaf> ion: You just Godwon this discussion.
12:15:47 <nortti> shachaf: it is ${DEITY}won
12:17:10 <nortti> or you-shall-not-mention-anything-someone-could-mistake-as-religious-referencewon
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12:19:43 <shachaf> elliott: Hmm, I hadn't really noticed the similarity between "(:) :: a -> [a] -> [a]" and "bind :: (a -> m b) -> m a -> m b" before.
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12:24:42 <ion> What similarity? :-)
12:28:13 <shachaf> ion: Well, it's a similarity when you also have return!
12:28:37 <shachaf> I guess it's more the similarity between (++) :: [a] -> [a] -> [a] and (>>) :: m a -> m a -> m a
12:28:58 <shachaf> But that one is more obvious.
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12:30:09 <shachaf> ellisonch: Is this actually "operational semantics"?
12:30:11 <ion> (>>) :: m a -> m b -> m b -- :-(
12:30:29 <shachaf> ion: Right, but, like, whatever, you know?
12:31:14 <ion> PHP’s type system: “Right, but, like, whatever, you know?”
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13:18:33 <lambdabot> newtype Cont r a = Cont { runCont :: (a -> r) -> r }
13:19:31 <lambdabot> forall a (m :: * -> *) b. (MonadCont m) => ((a -> m b) -> m a) -> m a
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13:23:01 <lambdabot> forall a r. ((a -> r) -> r) -> Cont r a
13:31:54 <lambdabot> forall r a. Cont r a -> (a -> r) -> r
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13:47:52 <elliott> > let free f a = pure a <|> fmap f (free f a) in free succ 0
13:47:53 <lambdabot> No instance for (GHC.Show.Show (f a))
13:47:53 <lambdabot> arising from a use of `M5760467943...
13:47:57 <elliott> > let free f a = pure a <|> fmap f (free f a) in free succ 0 :: [Int]
13:47:58 <lambdabot> [0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24,25,26,27,...
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15:03:11 -!- Gregor has set topic: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ is an okay website.
15:05:04 <Lumpio-> What is "Stalker mode" and why does it make my browser refresh like crazy
15:07:22 <Gregor> If it makes your browser /refresh/ like crazy, it's because your browser is broken.
15:07:25 <Gregor> But it follows the logs live.
15:07:30 <Gregor> So you can "watch" the channel without joining it.
15:07:48 <Gregor> It's there mainly to remind people that the existence of live logs implies the possibility of invisible idlers.
15:11:52 <elliott> Gregor: Did you know we're going to become IPv6-ready???
15:13:22 <ais523> elliott: you mean we aren't already?
15:13:28 <elliott> ais523: esolangs.org isn't
15:13:33 <elliott> ais523: because THE ALAN DIPERT hasn't updated the nameservers yet
15:13:47 <ais523> btw, I found the most awesome search engine ever: http://search-wise.net
15:14:05 <ais523> it ignores your query and returns a hardcoded list of results
15:14:24 <ais523> indeed, that's its intended purpose
15:16:25 <ais523> now we just need a lmgtfy equivalent for one of those sites
15:16:34 <ais523> to be simultaneously condescending /and/ useless!
15:18:50 <ais523> this is the best bad idea I've had today
15:21:12 <ais523> it's a pretty obvious acronym to use, from context
15:27:14 <ais523> meanwhile, pan (which I replaced XPN with) is working pretty well, apart from a couple of bizarre/inexplicable decisions
15:27:41 <ais523> for instance, I can't find the option to automatically check for new messages at a time interval, if there is one
15:27:48 <ais523> nor a way to unhide quoted text, which is hidden by default
15:28:42 <ais523> oh, hmm, replying to it shows the quoted text, but that's ridiculous
15:33:11 <ais523> any ideas? the quoted text thing is one of the stupidest design decisions I've come across, if the reply command is really the only way to see the text
15:42:48 <ais523> ah, found it, it's just buried a couple of submenus deep
15:44:22 <ais523> keybinding is Q, menu is View | Body Pane | Mute Quoted Text
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17:50:49 <ais523> oh, shubshub isn't here, that's reassuring
17:51:26 <Ngevd> What's the best strategy for ignoring people who are wrong?
17:51:44 <ais523> Ngevd: just ignoring them altogether is easy, act as if they aren't there
17:51:55 <ais523> trying to interact with them while ignoring the wrongness is harder, though
17:52:17 <Ngevd> Because I know a PHP fanboy who believes HTML sucks
17:52:41 <ais523> Ngevd: what are they using PHP for? and what do they think HTML sucks relative to?
17:53:04 <Ngevd> He's using PHP to make a website, and HTML relative to using DreamWeaver
17:54:15 <ais523> err, complete ignoring is the best option, unless you actually have to run the resulting monstrosity
17:54:52 <ais523> you could try hacking it if you feel like having some fun
17:54:58 <ais523> but it probably isn't worth it
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17:56:02 * ais523 thinks the chance that the resulting site will be secure is very low
17:56:10 <ais523> /slightly/ higher if it doesn't use any sort of database
17:56:48 <Ngevd> I beleive he also mentioned MySQL
17:58:19 <ais523> that doesn't surprise me, given the circumstances
17:58:37 <ais523> now, it's possible to write a secure website on that stack, but anyone who would voluntarily use it probably is incapable of doing so
17:59:35 <Ngevd> Shall I feign interest and ashame him when the site comes to fruition?
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20:15:02 <shubshub> Im trying to execute a batch file in python but I want to run the batch file with the replaced strings that python did to it?
20:16:34 <nortti> shubshub: you shouldn't ask "anyone know any python?". Just ask what is your problem
20:17:07 <shubshub> well is there anyway to execute the batch file in python with the replaced strings without writing those replaced strings to file?
20:19:16 <nortti> unless you use something like ksh in place of cmd.exe
20:20:04 <nortti> korn shell. Shell used on some unix-like systems
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20:23:05 <kmc> written by these guys: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korn
20:23:18 <Ngevd> Korn? I've heard of them
20:23:25 <Ngevd> The musicy people?
20:25:12 <kmc> we were just discussing the korn shell
20:27:59 <nortti> your opinion: besh unix shell? I like ash because it is POSIX compliant and small
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20:29:02 <itidus20> shubshub: you sure like your batch files
20:30:25 <kmc> nortti: why do you care about "small"
20:31:18 <nortti> kmc: my computer is pretty old
20:31:37 <kmc> that is pretty old
20:32:29 <kmc> bash is about 5.5MB resident set size on my machine
20:32:36 <kmc> but most of that will be shared between bash processes
20:32:45 <nortti> kmc: Also I am still not comfortable with multi megabyte binaries other than compilers
20:33:07 <kmc> well, get comfortable
20:33:13 <kmc> because computers are big now
20:33:14 <nortti> (I grew up using dos on old compaq)
20:33:56 <kmc> it doesn't make sense anymore to spend hundreds of programmer hours to decrease RAM consumption from 0.1% of system to 0.01%
20:34:19 <nortti> well compilers and large subsystems (for example x11)
20:35:22 <nortti> but for example the size of bash and vim are ridicilous
20:37:12 <kmc> it matters in some contexts
20:37:20 <kmc> i don't think it matters on a modern desktop/laptop pc
20:37:22 <kmc> even a 12 year old one
20:37:48 <kmc> i used to get worked up about "wasting resources" which are nowhere near scarce
20:37:58 <kmc> like 1 MB of RAM consumption in a world where a 1 GB upgrade costs $10
20:38:05 <kmc> but i got over it
20:38:22 <kmc> i'd rather spend my time building new things than "optimizing" an entirely irrelevant dimension of performance
20:38:58 <kmc> writing tiny programs is a fun game/challenge, though
20:40:04 <nortti> I don't optimize my code when it makes it hard to read or is not really worth is but I try not to waste memory and cpu time on things that can be easily done without using as much resources
20:40:22 <kmc> "easily" is relative though
20:41:09 <nortti> when writing fast and/or small programs is almost as easy as writing slow and/or lange
20:41:51 <kmc> a lot of people with this attitude won't even consider using a language higher level than C
20:42:01 <kmc> so they are making most things much harder than they need to be
20:42:46 <nortti> kmc: I use python most often
20:48:10 <nortti> kmc: but I also use C and assembly
20:53:46 <itidus20> all i want to know is whenever the pc does anything useful or valuable :P
20:54:17 <itidus20> although, since usefulness and valuableness are subjective...
20:55:25 <itidus20> pc = can run windows, but doesn't have to
20:56:44 <nortti> itidus20: Do you want to know is your Raspberry Pi doing anything useful or valuable?
20:58:27 <itidus20> for instance, right now my computer is only doing 3 signifigant things.. keeping some chats open, tracking the time, and keeping web documents open
20:58:42 <itidus20> most of it's hardware and cpu power is not being utilized
21:00:31 <kmc> whether the cpu power is fully utilized is not relevant to your question of whether it does "anything useful or valuable"
21:00:53 <kmc> most people who own cars consider them to be useful, even though they rarely drive at maximum speed
21:01:02 <Ngevd> Is this the 10% of your brain fallacy?
21:02:30 <itidus20> unlike a brain, a computer can use 100% of its capacity quite literally in certain work
21:03:14 <kmc> we don't understand the human brain well enough to have any idea what its "capacity" is, or how much is being used at any given time
21:03:14 <nortti> my computer is running x11 with openbox, irc client, web browser and music player and is using 16% of cpu
21:03:46 <kmc> also it's very hard to fully utilize a CPU, even if the cpu meter shows 100%
21:03:57 <kmc> you probably are not keeping all of the functional units busy
21:03:58 <Ngevd> If every bit of wire in a computer had an electric current in it, the computer would probably break
21:04:03 <nortti> unless you are using a singletasking system
21:04:16 <kmc> you are probably waiting on memory much of the time
21:04:24 <kmc> no, it's not about singletasking vs multitasking
21:04:45 <kmc> it's about instruction scheduling and cache utilization within a single instruction stream
21:05:23 <itidus20> i think i am determined to say one fallacy after another
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21:13:03 <kmc> itidus20: I'm still not sure what you get out of it :)
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21:18:51 <itidus20> for me, the most exciting code in a programming language is anything related to realtime input and realtime copying of bitmaps into video ram for display. for some naive definition of realtime.
21:20:10 <itidus20> i know that a monitor and a keyboard or gamepad are not themselves computers, but maybe i am just simple like that
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21:22:14 <shubshub> no I Made a Python Interpreter for my batch thing
21:22:27 <shubshub> i mean I Made a !!!Batch Interpreter in python sorry
21:22:28 <itidus20> as time goes on i am learning that theres some really exciting things i can do with a cpu inbetween the monitor and the keyboard
21:23:10 <nortti> shubshub: what kind of batch interpreter?
21:23:20 <itidus20> and, i have yet to figure out how esoteric languages fit into this map in my head
21:23:23 <shubshub> Its a !!!Batch Interpretr written in Python
21:23:58 <itidus20> so far i see them as possibly a training ground for language design/implementation
21:26:51 <Sgeo_> shubshub, how much of it just calls out to cmd.exe?
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21:35:25 <itidus20> i suppose a happy computer is a computer with good data sources
21:35:43 <itidus20> it seems that these days 99% of data comes from the internet
21:36:18 <itidus20> but due to coming from the internet it lacks relevance to ones own personal space
21:37:13 <itidus20> such that for most people, google corporation has more photos of your house than you do
21:40:43 <kmc> you should invent some kind of website which connects people according to real life relationships
21:40:50 <kmc> and then become rich and famous
21:40:55 <itidus20> it takes less physical exertion these days to look at the streets of tokyo to see whats there than to look in the cupboards to see whats there.. <<-- undeniable
21:40:55 <kmc> and have a major motion picture made about you
21:43:10 <kmc> you should put a webcam in your cupboards
21:44:43 <kmc> one day we will replace barcodes with RFID and then you can simply put an RFID reader in your cupboards
21:44:55 <itidus20> kmc: well.. one of these new fangled 3d scanners that can scan through walls will probably end up doing the trick
21:45:03 <kmc> people have tried to market home kitchen inventory system barcode scanners
21:45:10 <kmc> but nobody actually wants to scan their cans
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21:46:07 <kmc> how do you scan through walls
21:48:16 <itidus20> brb.. finding the answer or non-answer as it were
21:53:51 <itidus20> while trying to find it i did discover google can apparently scan books in 3d using infra-red
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21:59:15 <shubshub> I Finished The !Py!Batch !!!Batch Interpreter Coded In Python :D
22:00:09 <lambdabot> monqy: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
22:01:01 <itidus20> kmc: the true answer is that what i get out of it is merely a compensation for the kind of healthy conversation i seem to be unable to do
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22:01:30 <nortti> shubshub: Is it a RISC OS program or why are you adding ! at the start of program name
22:01:50 <shubshub> Because thats the name of the language its batch represented in !!!!
22:02:22 <itidus20> lol nortti.. this must be your first time meeting shubshub
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22:23:24 <itidus20> because you don't yet know about the wonderful thing which is !!!Batch
22:27:39 <quintopia> how come the wiki has numeric batch and !!!batch but not batch?
22:28:42 <itidus20> "batch" refers to the native dos/windows scripting stuff
22:29:17 <shubshub> !!!Batch Is Interpreted In Python Now :D
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22:34:32 <kmc> Is Capitalizing Every Word Part Of Programming In Batch?
22:36:54 <itidus20> So looking at Talk:OISC the general message I get is that there is some controversy over whether an instruction which takes one parameter and then on the basis of that parameter selects a sub-instruction to perform counts as a single instruction
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22:37:48 <Ngevd> It counts as a single instruction, but defeats the point of an OISC
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22:44:15 <itidus20> i suppose if you have 2 parameters, and the second parameter is 0, you can infer that you don't want to do a division.
22:47:39 <Ngevd> Unless you are forcing an error to have hacky side effects
22:51:13 <shubshub> gonna go write a !!!Batch Interpreter In !!!Batch :D
22:54:13 <shubshub> actually its gonna be a Version Of !Py!Batch Written Using !!!Batch and Executed as a Python File :D
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23:11:34 <shubshub> Im Converting !Py!Batch Into !!!Batch Code and its working except it traslates everything into normal letters D:
23:15:26 <shubshub> well ive got a proven fact: !!!Batch Can Not Be Interpreted Inside Of !!!Batch For The simple fact is it converts everything even the translated shitload long ?!!!!! Into Lettering and stuff D: so currently it is impossible
23:16:01 * shubshub does have another idea however :D
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23:32:14 <kmc> I Don't Understand Your Style Of Capitalization shubshub
23:32:26 <kmc> Is This Related To The Batch Language Or Just Something You Do
23:33:38 <kmc> Well, That's Fun
23:43:14 <shachaf> kmc: Yesterday elliott made me get Agda working.
23:43:21 <shachaf> It turns out it's actually pretty neat.
23:46:36 * shubshub is making a Numeric Batch Interpreter In !Py!Batch
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