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01:25:42 <elliott> Patashu: do you wanna see what a scroll of acquirement gave me after under 4000 turns of play in crawl light 
01:25:47 <elliott>  p - the +23 crystal plate mail of Inaction (worn) {rPois Acc+2 Dam+2} 
01:26:16 <monqy> iirc st_ got a pretty good artefact cpa the other day in regular crawl too 
01:26:17 <elliott> my AC is 54, along with my +1 helmet and +0 cloak and +0 boots 
01:26:21 <monqy> maybe it was someone else thouugh 
01:26:33 <monqy> and it might hav been on a robin 
01:26:41 <elliott> (crawl light doesn't buff acquirement or whatever (except that you can see what you'll get before deciding so i didn't just say "hey gimme armour")) 
01:26:54 <monqy> that's actually a real big acq buff 
01:27:02 <elliott> it doesn't buff the actual generation 
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01:33:47 <elliott> Patashu: my EV only just now hit 6 though 
01:34:00 <monqy> not that it matters for you at the moment 
01:34:18 <elliott> _You see here a serpentine rune of Zot. 
01:34:18 <elliott> _You can't carry that many items. 
01:34:32 <monqy> remember how runes used to be actual items that you carried in your inventory 
01:35:08 <elliott> Patashu: also I just got my first rune \o/ 
01:35:24 <elliott> Light, but "Light" doesn't mean "easier" 
01:35:40 <elliott> Light just means "no hunger and no curses and no stupid identification game" 
01:35:48 <elliott> and i'm playing DD because i also want "no regen over time" 
01:36:06 <monqy> you're not playing on hard mode 
01:36:20 <monqy> you're playing on medium mode. hasn't hard mode not been fully implemented yet? 
01:36:29 <monqy> you only opened the first pandoora! 
01:36:31 <elliott> harder than the baseline mode 
01:36:36 <elliott> monqy: i'm going to open the second!!! 
01:36:44 <elliott> when you open it the game gets harder 
01:37:06 <elliott> the portal to the first pandoora is randomly generated 
01:37:11 <elliott> second pandoora is at the end of the hive if you opened the first pandoora 
01:39:40 <elliott> Patashu: if you want to see pandoora-hive you can watch me i'll probably go there next 
01:40:49 <elliott> 02:40 <Satonakaja> easymode hive has PHAT LOOT liek swords or books or someting 
01:40:49 <elliott> 02:40 <Satonakaja> if you open the first pandoora, hive will only have potions and the second pandoora when dtsund implements it 
01:40:49 <elliott> 02:40 <Satonakaja> but as of now all it is is a normal stone soup hive 
01:40:52 <elliott> ok it probably won't be that interesting 
01:40:57 <elliott> Patashu: oh it's telnet light.bitprayer.com 
01:41:38 <monqy> 18:41:05 < quairlzr> Satonakaja: you missed it 
01:41:39 <monqy> 18:41:10 < quairlzr> both doors are in now 
01:48:15 <elliott> i accidentally read tele and now i'm trapped by deep water 
01:48:22 <elliott> and reading tele again just put me in the same place 
01:48:36 <monqy> you have wands right 
01:48:56 <monqy> or you can use digging to get around the water if that isn't the level boundary 
01:48:59 <monqy> digging doesn't cut wax 
01:49:01 <monqy> disint and fire do 
01:50:15 <elliott> i guess what i have is better 
01:50:38 <Patashu> that's something normal crawl needs 
01:50:47 <Patashu> isn't it different in crawl light 
01:51:00 <elliott>  You open the killer bee like a pillowcase!!! 
01:51:20 <elliott> a less shitty anti-magic axe 
01:51:51 <elliott> wow i see why they removed hive 
01:51:51 <monqy> Patashu: light uses glow instead of food for spell/invo/evo/etc costs so it's more important to have precise glow information 
01:51:59 <elliott> yeah i think they removed hive because it was too easy 
01:52:12 <monqy> and because it's just boring 
01:52:20 <monqy> a level full of bees and only bees, "seriously?" 
01:52:49 <Patashu> a bee with 100 speed, haste and swiftness 
01:52:53 <elliott> actually enchant some stuff some da 
01:53:24 <monqy> don't bother ehcnating stuff you're not going to use; you aren't in any shortage of ac/whatever 
01:53:47 <monqy> you're fine off with what you have there too 
01:54:03 <monqy> and you might find something really cool like a vampiric axe 
01:54:09 <elliott> _Found the -5 chain mail of Agoraphobia {+Inv Acc+3}. 
01:55:29 <monqy> either a secret door or you can burn/disint it 
01:56:03 <monqy> or dig it since it's rock 
01:56:29 <monqy> maybe you will find a door 
01:56:38 <monqy> the rock that's not listed as unnaturally hard 
01:58:21 <elliott> 02:58 <quairlzr> that's a bee castle 
01:59:40 <Patashu> grind a teletrap until you tele past it? 
02:01:20 <elliott> Patashu: oh it actually is 
02:02:49 <elliott> Patashu: join #crawllight btw 
02:11:07 <monqy> 18:59:40 < Patashu> grind a teletrap until you tele past it? 
02:11:15 <monqy> there's no_tele_into 
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03:55:31 <shachaf> kmc: Does "heard" even have any vowels? 
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06:31:26 <elliott> Patashu: how do you kill boris 
06:54:44 <Sgeo> elliott, how do you pronounce the name of the letter z? 
06:55:16 <Sgeo> I have not even heard of it being pronounced zed until a few minutes ago 
06:55:22 <elliott> zed is the standard british pronunciation 
06:55:23 <Sgeo> Reading some Internet Oracularities 
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07:13:06 <Sgeo> ...And I call myself a Stargate Atlantis fan 
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07:28:25 <Sgeo> The Internet Oracle is a few months younger than I am 
07:29:31 <shachaf> The "zee/zed" thing stops me from using x and y as variables. :-( 
07:29:39 <shachaf> I'm always nervous. What if z comes next?! 
07:30:24 <shachaf> And then after z it's a real problem. 
07:30:33 <shachaf> w is my least favorite English letter, by the way. 
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08:02:22 <elliott> Patashu: you should help me not die 
08:02:26 <elliott> in a more helpful manner than monqy 
08:02:49 <monqy> Patashu: you wouldn't believe how hard it was to get elliott to use a vamp battleaxe on a ddbe!! 
08:03:07 <shachaf> elliott: Can I help you not die? 
08:03:40 <elliott> Patashu: i'm dying lots because of hell fiends and other nasty things 
08:04:04 <elliott> i think i'm carrying three of them 
08:04:15 <elliott> monqy: should i be carrying these runes 
08:04:24 <monqy> no they're wasted inventory space 
08:04:30 <monqy> stash them or something once you get a chance 
08:05:29 <elliott> i guess i won't bother with elf:3 
08:05:34 <elliott> Patashu: how scary is zot:1 
08:06:23 <monqy> elliott's char is op so it should be easy 
08:06:51 <Patashu> I think zot:1 is easier than vaults:8 
08:06:55 <Patashu> because it has less shit and a less open layout 
08:07:01 <Patashu> that doesn't mean the monsters in it are trivial 
08:07:12 <monqy> elf end is also commonly considered easier than v8!!! 
08:07:27 <monqy> i usually just don't do elf though 
08:07:37 <monqy> the only good level is the ending and the rest is ugh 
08:07:51 <monqy> that's because you goofed it 
08:08:08 <elliott> is that throwing net useful for anything at this point in the game 
08:09:52 <elliott> is that enough scrolls for zot:1 
08:10:51 <elliott> i have no idea how to use these rods 
08:10:57 <elliott> but i have a feeling it's pointless taking them to zot 
08:13:28 <elliott>  V - a +5 rod of summoning (10/10) 
08:13:28 <elliott>  Z - a +3 rod of destruction [lightning,iron,fireball] (10/10) 
08:13:32 <elliott> Patashu: should i take these to zot 
08:14:00 <Patashu> if you end up not needing them just drop them 
08:16:05 <elliott>  The chilling blast hits you! 
08:16:05 <elliott> _Two of your 12 potions of healing freeze and shatter! 
08:16:13 <elliott> is everything on zot:1 cold or something 
08:16:23 <elliott> and i've seen an ice dragon 
08:16:27 <elliott> is anything firey on zot:1 
08:16:36 <Patashu> and whichever draconian colour is fire 
08:16:50 <elliott> how are you meant to resist all this crap 
08:16:53 <Patashu> drac annihlators do every element I think 
08:17:03 <Patashu> swap to one pip of rF and one pip of rC 
08:17:12 <Patashu> when you see something you know only does one (like an orb of fire) you can swap to 2 of it 
08:17:12 <monqy> you don't look like you're having trouble 
08:17:37 <elliott> monqy: well my scrolls are all catching fire 
08:17:42 <elliott> and this draconian refuses to walk up to me 
08:17:52 <elliott> shit why do i have all these scrolls  with me 
08:20:15 <elliott> all my scrolls gone apart from tele 
08:20:26 <elliott> only one scroll of blinking left in the game and it's not mine 
08:21:54 <elliott> i should just get the orb and be happy with the runes i have i guess 
08:22:36 <elliott> why is this black draconian red 
08:24:52 <elliott> Patashu: how do you kill orbs of fire 
08:26:14 <Patashu> and don't die to mutations 
08:26:29 <monqy> Patashu: are you sure 
08:26:38 <monqy> Patashu: remember light reverted haste nerf 
08:26:47 <Patashu> they're 200% speed in crawl light? 
08:27:26 <elliott> how dumb is berking an orb of fire 
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08:28:30 <Patashu> if crawl light has the op version of berk 
08:28:50 <elliott>  You slice the orb of fire!! 
08:29:34 <elliott>  Wait a moment, elliott! Do you really want to walk there? 
08:32:52 <elliott> did you see the part where all my scrolls got destroyed 
08:34:48 <monqy> elf3 for conservation!!! 
08:35:11 <elliott> would elf:3 have conservation? 
08:39:30 <elliott> this is the problematic situation 
08:39:37 <elliott> i guess i need to kill the conjurer fast 
08:39:50 <elliott> hopefully you can see the problem 
08:41:24 <monqy> are you letting them all hit you at once 
08:41:26 <monqy> oops don't do that! 
08:41:44 <elliott> to kill the ones that summon the awful demons first 
08:42:06 <monqy> might want to use the vamp axe some too 
08:42:11 <monqy> your hp is getting a dear bit low!! 
08:42:27 <elliott> do you have any suggestions 
08:42:34 <monqy> don't do whatever you did 
08:43:42 <elliott> ok it might finally go well for once since I got rid of the high priest 
08:45:50 <elliott> now it's all going terribly :( 
08:47:26 <monqy> oh yeah don't fight like that jeez 
08:47:36 <elliott> you'd have saw how i got into this situation :P 
08:49:50 <monqy> oh dear what happened to you 
08:50:38 <elliott> I think I'll probably die in the next few turns and there's a bunch of stuff between me and the stairs, so I guess it's hopeless. 
08:51:39 <elliott> I suppose I could read tele, but I have a sneaking suspicion I wouldn't survive to see the other side of it. 
08:53:00 <elliott> monqy: Anyway, suggestions welcome. 
08:53:33 <monqy> most danger about tele is in teleporting into the vault 
08:54:14 <elliott> I would say the most danger is the fact that I had a lot more than 45 HP last turn and so am probably going to have a lot less than it next turn... 
08:54:48 <monqy> about tele specificially 
08:55:46 <monqy> see look you didn't die 
08:56:15 <elliott> Just wait 'til I get back there... 
08:56:47 <elliott> Lightning and crystal spear. 
08:57:04 <elliott> I can't exactly stop things casting spells at me when I'm walking up to them. 
08:57:17 <monqy> hint: don't walk up to them 
08:57:43 <elliott> monqy: I had nowhere to duck and if I just sat there the same would happen. 
08:57:58 <monqy> maybe find somewhere to duck 
08:58:09 <monqy> or move such that you have somewhere to duck 
08:58:25 <elliott> i.e., run away along the corridor, during which time the same would have happened. 
08:58:59 <elliott> You occasionally shout uncontrollably. 
08:59:04 <elliott> Apparently I got another mutation while I wasn't looking. 
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09:00:48 <elliott> That corridor is going to have the exact same situation in it as it did last time I was in it, so I'm really not sure what my options are. 
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09:09:46 <elliott> monqy: ok, how *are* you meant to handle deep elf demonologists when there are no corridors you can get to without traversing terrain with a bunch of elves that will kill you 
09:10:56 <monqy> i don't know how that happened to you!! 
09:11:20 <elliott> Simple; I retreated from other stuff back here, and there was a deep elf demonologist. 
09:11:42 <elliott> I couldn't retreat backwards since that'd put me back into the stuff I was retreating from, so I walked up to it to kill it before it could summon anything, but it was too quick. 
09:13:58 <elliott> Anyway, I don't know what to do at this point. 
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09:18:43 <elliott> Patashu: You should save me. 
09:20:15 <elliott> Patashu: light.bitprayer.com 
09:21:02 <elliott> i'm still losing like 20, 30 hp per turn 
09:21:25 <elliott> the 57 ac really isn't a panacea 
09:21:36 <Patashu> shrug, you still want to tele 
09:21:53 <elliott> except there's elves down there 
09:22:22 <elliott> think i'll just get the hell out 
09:22:50 <Patashu> 57 ac doesn't help against everything 
09:22:54 <Patashu> but it sure as fuck helps against execs 
09:23:11 <elliott> ugh i suppose i should just go to zot 
09:23:20 <elliott> since there's obviously no way i'll survive a 15-runer 
09:23:34 <Patashu> (torment torment torment torment smite) 
09:24:26 <elliott> i think i'm too shit a player to survive is what i meant 
09:24:36 <Patashu> trog wrath is kind of hard to deal with 
09:24:41 <Patashu> though with no hunger you could scummily deal with it 
09:25:42 <elliott> what's so bad about trog wrath for a character like me? 
09:25:46 <elliott> i can kill pretty much any melee monster 
09:25:55 <elliott> it's spellcasters that beat me down 
09:26:02 <Patashu> getting surrounded by 20 zerk stone giants and bears is kind of hard to deal with 
09:26:47 <Patashu> corridor with something like a rat blocking you in 
09:26:59 <Patashu> then 5 until trog is mollified 
09:27:06 <elliott> monqy: tell Patashu he's awful 
09:27:13 <monqy> Patashu: you're awful 
09:27:36 <monqy> Patashu: did you see elliott doing crypt 
09:28:50 <elliott> i could probably take crypt now 
09:29:02 <elliott> Patashu: do you want to see me die in crypt 
09:29:06 <monqy> elliott: so are you converting or not, and are you still planning on allruning 
09:29:21 <elliott> i doubt i'll all-rune without converting 
09:29:51 <Patashu> it's technically possible but lol, torment 
09:29:59 <elliott> who are the viable ddbe extended game gods then 
09:30:14 <monqy> makhleb is like tso but makhleb instead of tso 
09:30:31 <elliott> what does makhleb offer over trog 
09:30:35 <Patashu> if you're going to convert you may as well convert to tso 
09:30:41 <Patashu> makhleb offers: healing on kills, ??? 
09:32:10 <monqy> tso offers healing on evil kills, which is pretty much 100% of extended 
09:32:15 <monqy> also holy branding 
09:32:20 <monqy> and angels and stuff 
09:32:21 <Patashu> holy helps more than vampiric in end game 
09:32:24 <Patashu> since vampiric doesn't work on demons 
09:32:29 <Patashu> while holy gives 75% damage boost 
09:32:35 <Patashu> tso gives you cleansing flame 
09:32:38 <Patashu> which is good at high invo 
09:32:41 <monqy> and if you rely on trog's hand for healing you will exhaust your piety megaquickly 
09:32:43 <elliott> what does makhleb offer over trog for extended, I'm confused 
09:33:04 <elliott> tso seems like a pain because 
09:33:16 <elliott> doesn't it get angry at you if you do $stuff 
09:33:33 <monqy> tso isn't as uptight about stuff you do to demons 
09:33:41 <elliott> anyway if i'm going to convert i guess it should be before i finish off crypt? 
09:33:48 <monqy> worst it'd affect you is you can't use your vamp or draining weapons 
09:33:59 <Patashu> yes, you'd have to grind with a different weapon 
09:34:03 <Patashu> until you get holy branding 
09:34:30 <Patashu> well, you'd be holy branding it anyway 
09:34:49 <elliott> i don't know if hp on evil kills would be enough 
09:35:19 <monqy> vamp won't help you in extended 
09:35:25 <monqy> except on the rare living thing 
09:35:28 <monqy> like ice dragons in coc 
09:36:03 <elliott> Patashu: btw is hall of blades as horrible as they say 
09:36:19 <Patashu> it depends on your character 
09:36:25 <Patashu> but pretty much everything there is faster than a normal speed char 
09:36:28 <Patashu> there are lots of reaching weapons 
09:36:32 <Patashu> and an unlucky brand might fuck you up 
09:36:39 <Patashu> if you have good escape mechanisms blade is ok 
09:37:25 <elliott> what about if you have crappy escape mechanisms but 57 AC 
09:38:43 <elliott> idk i just want to put off the decision of converting to another god 
09:38:46 <elliott> be somewhere without spellcasters 
09:38:54 <Patashu> (uniques can appear in blade) 
09:39:34 <elliott> 10:39 <Henzell> hall of blades[6/6]: <rwbarton> the real experience you gain is "don't do blade" 
09:39:41 <elliott> should i take anything special 
09:40:15 <elliott> also I guess rFire isn't that important in blades? 
09:40:23 <Patashu> there can be weapons of flaming 
09:41:17 <elliott> feature request: they're not fucking swords 
09:41:28 <elliott> since that's how i heal these days 
09:41:34 <elliott> does killing them give piety 
09:41:42 <elliott> & also will anti-magic do anything fancy to them 
09:41:52 <elliott> (& also will draining do anything fancy to them) 
09:47:31 <Patashu> is that a crawl light thing 
09:47:33 <Patashu> also, get the fuck out of blade 
09:47:45 <elliott> i take it i stand no chances against mennas 
09:47:54 <Patashu> I guess you are kind of diesel 
09:48:01 <elliott> I thought Crawl avoided giving genders to monsters 
09:48:05 <elliott> or is that a post-0.8 thing 
09:48:43 <elliott> what about the silent disciples and shit 
09:49:08 <Patashu> you just opened a sword like a pillowcase 
09:49:39 <elliott> i can kill anything in melee 
09:49:46 <elliott> what i can't kill is stuff that summons 
09:49:51 <elliott> or throws bolts of cold at me 
09:49:56 <elliott> and especially my items can't survive that 
09:49:59 <elliott> so basically when i did zot:1 
09:50:09 <elliott> it was uneventful except all my scrolls got destroyed 
09:50:25 <elliott> and i kept losing hp whenever I fought something that did blasts of stuff 
09:50:31 <elliott> if everything just did melee 
09:51:49 <elliott> _gruevy's ghost (mighty High Elf Ice Elementalist) comes into view. 
09:52:19 <elliott> !learn add famous_last_words 
09:52:31 <Patashu> he's a harmless teddybeatr 
09:52:40 <monqy> xtahua with rF- is where it's at 
09:52:56 <monqy> you also have: so much ac, vamp battleaxe 
09:53:04 <elliott> is blades meant to be this easy 
09:53:15 <monqy> Patashu: did you see that ttyrec of the spsomething that came out of an ice cave into xtahua with rF- 
09:53:34 <Patashu> do you know where I can find it 
09:54:11 <elliott> Patashu: you get to help me do (the last level of) crypt 
09:54:42 <elliott> observe: the previous disaster 
09:55:02 <lambdabot> Plugin `tell' failed with: Prelude.head: empty list 
09:55:13 <monqy> I was trying to get elliott to experience the magic and wonder of liches behind glass 
09:55:24 <monqy> the magic and wonder being that if you step on the items it sets the liches free on you 
09:55:53 <elliott> the best thing about light is 
09:56:45 <elliott> _The curse skull gives a chilling moan. 
09:57:46 <elliott> i guess from the same place 
09:58:08 <elliott> better chokepoint and another staircase 
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09:58:28 <monqy> Patashu: !lg * sp killer=xtahua max=dam -tv:<0.3 
09:58:44 <Patashu> I forgot I stopped watching it half way through because it was boring 
09:59:00 <Patashu> ice cave can appear as late as vaults? lol 
09:59:25 <elliott> i've dealt with one of the liches 
10:00:39 <elliott> _There is a click. Suddenly, the liches are set free! 
10:00:56 <elliott> Sif Muna's Volume of Snow and the Voyage 
10:00:58 <elliott> literally the most boring book 
10:01:00 <Patashu> that seems to be an oversight 
10:01:06 <Patashu> shouldn't it only say that if there are still iches trapped there 
10:02:13 <elliott> Patashu: btw is there any feasible way for me to get conservation at this point 
10:02:14 <Patashu> what are you going to get by putting it off 
10:02:32 <elliott> but I still don't know if I want to 15-rune or not 
10:03:53 <Patashu> I mean, you could if you want to 
10:04:01 <Patashu> but you don't have any way of dealing with certain parts of hell/pan 
10:04:37 <elliott> wouldn't converting to tso mitigate that though 
10:05:56 <Patashu> how do you plan on getting tso piety though 
10:06:29 <elliott> monqy: how do i plan on getting tso piety 
10:06:56 <elliott> potions of speed are useless if i have haste right 
10:07:31 <monqy> doing abyss maybe? idk 
10:07:47 <elliott> does trog wrath happen in abyss too 
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10:10:19 <Patashu> and berked shit takes forever to kill 
10:10:29 <elliott>  You have reached level 27, the final one! 
10:10:36 <elliott> should i raise str or dex :p 
10:10:47 <Patashu> you're not getting much out of your ev 
10:12:25 * Sgeo wonders if he has Dilbert Desktop Games around somewhere 
10:14:09 <elliott>  Your +23 crystal plate mail prevents you from hitting the white draconian. 
10:14:14 <elliott> Patashu: i love how i'm still getting these messages 
10:14:34 <elliott> crawl: really weird if you get +23 cpa in the really early game 
10:14:42 <Patashu> even with 27 armour it still stops you sometimes 
10:15:01 <elliott> draconian with a disto sword 
10:16:03 <elliott> the last level of zot is always a lot harder right 
10:16:59 <elliott> i could just clear zot:3 i guess 
10:17:02 <elliott> but i dunno if that's suicidal or not 
10:25:12 <elliott> this has to be a terrible idea 
10:26:37 <elliott> monqy: tell me i'm an idiot 
10:26:58 <monqy> elliott: you're an idiot 
10:27:01 <monqy> elliott: ps what are you doing 
10:29:54 <monqy> elliott: that happened with my ghck too 
10:30:06 <monqy> elliott: no conservation all game then i found a cloak of pres on zot5 
10:30:17 <elliott> is resist mutation useful in zot 
10:31:27 <elliott> Patashu: is resist mutation useful in zot :( 
10:31:51 <Patashu> (and draconian shifters I think?) 
10:32:37 <elliott> i have an amulet of conservation 
10:32:40 <elliott> and an amulet of resist mutation 
10:32:47 <elliott> is it ok to put on conservation 
10:32:51 <elliott> and switch to mutation when i see one of those 
10:33:37 <shachaf> elliott: Did you solve the EXCITING PUZZLE? 
10:34:05 <shachaf> Did you see the EXCITING PUZZLE? 
10:34:40 <elliott> busy solving a different puzzle 
10:36:02 <shachaf> Is it the puzzle where when you solve it you win at Crawl? 
10:36:35 <shachaf> Is that a brand of cigarettes? 
10:36:57 <Patashu> do you have an axe of antimagic? 
10:37:02 <Patashu> do you have a scroll of silence? 
10:37:35 <elliott> there's zot traps in predictable places right 
10:38:20 <Patashu> put on relec for electric shooters, yes 
10:38:29 <elliott> does vamp work on electric golems 
10:38:47 <shachaf> do vamps dream of electric golems 
10:41:28 <elliott> killer klowns are awful right 
10:41:39 <Patashu> I don't think killer klowns even do anything 
10:41:45 <elliott> 11:41 <Henzell> killer klown[1/5]: Not a truly unique monster, but emotes like a unique and is very powerful. Causes rotting, is very resistant to magic, and is as fast as a centaur. Fortunately, it has no elemental resistances. 
10:42:44 <elliott> i'm in los of ancient lich 
10:43:40 <elliott> guess i'll just punch through to it 
10:44:10 <elliott> that was there from before :P 
10:44:15 <elliott> they haven't rot me at all yet 
10:44:39 <elliott> is that vampire summoning these 
10:45:00 <Patashu> I don't think vampires can summon anything but mammals 
10:45:02 <Patashu> unless it changed in light 
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10:48:25 <elliott> so do guardians actually spawn around the orb 
10:49:05 <Patashu> just pick up the orb and step into the tele trap 
10:49:15 <elliott> i wasn't going for the orb 
10:49:17 <Patashu> you could do it anyway if you feel like it 
10:49:17 <elliott> i'm just clearing out zot:3 
10:50:00 <elliott> that situation wasn't good 
10:52:03 <elliott> Patashu: if i pick the orb up 
10:52:07 <elliott> can i stash it in the temple 
10:52:12 <elliott> or does picking it up start the whole 
10:54:13 <elliott> it suddenly became 13 and my AC 60 
10:55:05 <monqy> so are you going to grab the orb and win or do extended or what 
10:55:21 <monqy> if you pick the orb up the spawning is irreversible 
10:55:25 <monqy> but orb run tomb is cool 
10:55:28 <monqy> but you can't do orb run hell or pan 
10:55:56 <elliott> which makes me a bit more confident 
10:56:11 <elliott> i'm tempted to go for extended 
10:56:33 <elliott> i mean i could just win with 4 runes quickly now but i mean 
10:57:16 <Patashu> did you get a beneficial mutation? 
10:57:28 <Patashu> 'Armour fits poorly on your unusually shaped body.' maybe 
10:57:28 <elliott> i have no idea how i got these mutations 
10:57:35 <elliott> Patashu: nah i've had that for the whole game 
10:57:45 <elliott> do i occasionally blink or something 
10:57:57 <elliott> monqy: is this really teleportitis 
10:59:41 <elliott> monqy: is there any hope for me 
11:00:16 <monqy> if you grab the orb and win 
11:00:39 <elliott> well at least the abyss would be tolerable with it :P 
11:03:26 <monqy> do you expect to have fun in the abyss 
11:07:17 <elliott> monqy: ps is 70k turns few or a lot i can't tell these things 
11:07:23 <elliott> i guess it's different for light since 
11:07:27 <elliott> less time identifying, eating, etc. 
11:07:36 <elliott> oh and shorter branches obviously 
11:07:47 <elliott> so i guess it's probably quite long for light 
11:12:34 <elliott> Patashu: abyss with teleportitis has to be the greatest thing ever right 
11:12:48 <Patashu> and "a good way to get the rune" 
11:12:58 <Patashu> also "will make xom amused" 
11:13:08 <elliott> wait can you even teleport in the abyss like that 
11:13:13 <elliott> i know it blocks some kinds of stuff 
11:13:31 <Patashu> you can teleport fine in the abyss 
11:13:50 <elliott> how far does it teleport you 
11:14:08 <elliott> no amulet of stasis, brilliant 
11:14:25 <Patashu> to a different part of the abyss 
11:14:37 <Patashu> (read: regenerates the abyss and places you randomly in the new abyss) 
11:14:49 <Patashu> it's like playing hyperrogue basically 
11:15:12 <elliott> what happens if you find the rune 
11:15:18 <elliott> will you never find it again 
11:15:21 <elliott> because it's already been generated 
11:16:44 <Patashu> but NOT same for unique pan lord runes 
11:16:51 <Patashu> those are the only ones you can miss 
11:18:29 <elliott> (a) nab orb, win with 4 runes 
11:18:33 <elliott> (b) go to abyss, have THE FUNNEST TIME 
11:18:43 <elliott> (c) try to do extended game with teleportitis like a fucking imbecile 
11:23:30 <elliott> no it;s not permissible!!! 
11:25:21 <elliott> Patashu: should i orb run tomb 
11:25:25 <elliott> monqy: should i orb run tomb 
11:25:30 <monqy> always orb run tomb 
11:25:36 <elliott> would i actually survive that 
11:25:50 <elliott> but there's no death curses! 
11:26:01 <Patashu> no death curses in crawl light? 
11:26:04 <Patashu> so what's the point of tomb again 
11:26:20 <elliott> maybe there's death curses!!! 
11:28:52 <elliott> 12:28 <Henzell> I don't have a page labeled striss in my learndb. 
11:28:54 <elliott> monqy: who the fuck is striss 
11:29:03 <monqy> random panlord with summon dragon 
11:29:08 <elliott> 12:29 <Gretell> unknown monster: "striss" 
11:32:52 <elliott> monqy: i have the runes and the orb 
11:33:09 <elliott> want to orb run tomb like an idiot just for the hilarity 
11:34:29 <monqy> you can orb run tomb if you want 
11:34:33 <monqy> worst case you die 
11:35:01 <elliott> 12:34 <Henzell> tomb[7/8]: RotRotRotRotTormentTormentRotTormentTormentSmiteTormentSmiteSmite You die... 
11:35:14 <elliott> 12:35 <Henzell> tomb[8/8]: Croases: admittedly i should've done swamp first 
11:38:11 <elliott> monqy: i'm going to do a really stupid ascension trick wish me luck!!! 
11:38:44 <elliott> "it is up for every person on the planet for them to decide" 
11:39:04 <elliott> monqy: i'm going to do a bunch of stupid stuff before walking up the stairs 
11:41:16 <elliott> monqy: does abandoning religion have any penalties 
11:42:29 <elliott> before walking up the stairs 
11:42:42 <Patashu> what are you going to run into 
11:43:07 <Patashu> well, just hasterun from everything 
11:43:14 <elliott> will i survive even a single hit 
11:43:25 <Patashu> lol, stupid ascension tricks 
11:43:48 <Patashu> congrats on your easy modo win 
11:43:49 <elliott>   1. 3673211 gruevy     MDFi-27 escaped with the Orb 
11:43:49 <elliott>   2. 2327513 elliott    DDBe-27 escaped with the Orb 
11:43:54 <Patashu> Are you ready for the next challenge? 
11:44:26 <elliott> did i lose points by abandoning religion & being naked 
11:44:58 <elliott> my teleportitis didn't kick in at all 
11:46:38 <elliott> use my summoning rod thing to swarm a cloud of crap 
11:46:43 <elliott> polymorph one of my boulder beetles into a naga 
11:46:56 <elliott> and tried to go up the stairs 
11:47:01 <elliott> and i took off all my armour beforehand 
11:47:16 <elliott> ...and then ran naked out the dungeon with the orb :P 
11:50:02 <Patashu> if crawl light uses the same scoring system as crawl 
11:50:12 <Patashu> all it cares about is exp, no. of runes and game turns taken 
11:50:28 <elliott> so i only wasted the turns it took to actually do that crap :P 
11:51:10 <elliott> so, the last level of zot is actually pretty fun 
11:51:54 <itidus20> ** stair dancing ** (best watched when not busy) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWdGIbZKtmg&t=214s 
11:53:35 <Patashu> brogue has the best (most exploitable) stair dancing 
11:53:44 <Patashu> which is funny because at first it looks like the LEAST exploitable stairs in any roguelike that has them 
11:54:02 <elliott> imo every roguelike needs to adopt the following-through-stairs system brogue has 
11:55:23 <Sgeo> Following through stairs system? 
11:56:01 <Patashu> when you take the stairs in brogue 
11:56:04 <Patashu> every monster that is actively hunting you 
11:56:08 <Patashu> will take the stairs as soon as it reaches them 
11:56:32 <elliott> (as opposed to the stupid system in most other roguelikes where things adjacent to you can somehow go up the stairs and then walk next to you in two turns less time than it should take) 
11:56:34 <Patashu> so you need to use Secret Techniques to exploit stairs 
11:56:39 <elliott> (and anything with even one square of air around you won't follow at all) 
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12:00:08 <elliott> Patashu: so what are the brogue techniques 
12:01:49 <elliott> monqy: bet you enjoyed playing as MEPHITICCLOUD 
12:02:09 <monqy> it actually didn't have meph 
12:02:12 <Patashu> I made a post on the brogue wiki detailing what you can do with stairs 
12:02:16 <Patashu> http://brogue.wikia.com/wiki/Stairdancing 
12:02:17 <monqy> right now i'm playing MOUNTAINDWARF, which does have meph 
12:02:30 <elliott> monqy: is the naming theme "bad things" 
12:02:40 <monqy> naming scheme is OBLIVION 
12:02:51 <monqy> things that were "nerfed to oblivion" 
12:03:03 <monqy> mephitic cloud, mountain dwarf, staff monk, slaying 
12:03:04 <elliott> I'm not sure I'd call what was done to Mountain Dwarves "nerfing". 
12:03:05 <Patashu> what was op about staff monk 
12:03:15 <monqy> it was just nerfed to oblivion 
12:03:21 <Sgeo> Is there a Brogue server? 
12:03:29 <Patashu> but it has a replay system 
12:03:33 <Patashu> so if you win (or die hilariously) I can watch you 
12:03:40 <elliott> a brogue server would require the brogue program to work well anyway 
12:04:07 <Patashu> I think there's a console version of brogue 
12:04:13 <Patashu> just that it's not available because the faketerm is a lot better 
12:04:18 <Patashu> and it's going to be used for an ssh server 
12:04:23 <elliott> yeah but nobody will want to play that 
12:04:27 <elliott> at least nobody with taste 
12:05:16 <monqy> i wasn't looking atht the screen 
12:05:43 <elliott> you should use mephitic cloud on everything 
12:05:56 <elliott> can't sacrifice optimal play just for your personal opinions! 
12:06:00 <elliott> you have a team relying on you 
12:06:49 <monqy> this is the only one I have left 
12:06:54 <monqy> then everything will be stuck on marvinpa 
12:07:09 <monqy> (until it comes back around to me that is) 
12:09:54 <elliott> sounds a lot like mephitic cloud to me 
12:10:04 <elliott> sounds like you're feeding your secret meph addiction without admitting it!!! 
12:11:26 <elliott> i havent even seen meph ever casted monqy 
12:15:48 <elliott> i think monqy just wants to cast meph a lot 
12:15:50 <elliott> i think he really likes it 
12:15:55 <monqy> everything about this char is op 
12:16:25 <elliott> monqy: did you see i won btw 
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12:24:52 <Taneb> Now for Crawl [Heavy|Dark]! 
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12:33:12 <elliott> It's like Crawl, but Light. 
12:33:35 <elliott> It's a fork of 0.8 that adds some new stuff and removes annoying things like the bad hunger, identification and curse systems. 
12:33:51 <elliott> bad (hunger, identification and curse systems) 
12:33:58 <Sgeo> What's bad about them? 
12:34:15 <monqy> i thought you played craw 
12:34:33 <elliott> alternatively: "everything" 
12:36:01 <elliott> even ais thinks crawl's id game sucks, and he likes identification 
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12:38:22 <Sgeo> How does it suck? 
12:38:47 <elliott> 13:34 <monqy> i thought you played craw 
12:39:01 <elliott> it's uninteresting, tedious, and has no gameplay benefits 
12:39:43 <elliott> it involves no interesting choices, more or less no risk, and basically is just completely pointless 
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12:57:55 <elliott> monqy: you gotat see that tv 
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13:21:47 <Sgeo> Help me! I'm using drivelware pushed by Facebook 
13:21:59 <Sgeo> Because it has one redeeming quality over Pidgin 
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14:08:42 <Sgeo> If I go to sleep I'm going to forget what I need to post to the Allegiance forums 
14:09:01 <itidus20> summarize it here in a few posts 
14:09:09 <itidus20> then you can check it later in the logs 
14:17:28 <Sgeo> Why am I listening to itidus20 
14:18:33 <Sgeo> Allegiance installer doesn't have Allegiance run as Administrator -- which is good except for it installing Allegiance into a protected directory, so updaters don't work 
14:18:56 <Sgeo> And R6 apparently uses Visual C++ 2010 Redistributable files, which the installer does not install 
14:19:18 <itidus20> Lewis Carroll once invented a strange device for taking shorthand in the dark, because he would forget what idea he just woke up with faster than the oil lamp could be turned on. 
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16:09:56 <itidus20> based on some rants the other day, i'm trying my winxp in a fullscreen style mode.. 
16:11:15 <itidus20> all open windows maximized (where possible), taskbar removed from the bottom, taskbar can be entirely replaced effectively by alt+tab and windows key 
16:13:06 <itidus20> it's my backlash against overlapping windows 
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18:17:12 <ion> https://torrentfreak.com/bittorrent-piracy-boosts-music-sales-study-finds-120517/ 
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18:20:28 <itidus20> ion: i guess the record industry wants to have their cake and eat it too. 
18:21:54 * itidus20 notices that every other time someone has spoken i have responded and it might be time for a break 
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18:52:06 <HackEgo> 831) <olsner> they call finnish human-readable? 
18:52:18 <HackEgo> Taneb is not elliott, no matter who you ask. 
18:52:24 <HackEgo> ].~"MɱʂefO_4eD(2.tз};M0{zZ.7{^B'_O.IaS@."c:Y.Iƥ0I.~nY&`ƫ@bcMb+.Jj...S\.Aa#+ \ '.t.^˕4Nx-.BPhb..iJ@f:QLܒ;dɇe.z..Rz \ .w!*Ax2^fMVkl.Rg.[c(.k~{ ".+.[0~6.#ov0.qFS=]C"`ݑ.ts. 
18:52:32 <nortti> actually they called finnish easy to read. 
18:53:02 <HackEgo> 439) <Taneb> Turned out he got recursion, he just didn't get the return statement \ 445) <Taneb> Cut to February  <Taneb> War were declared  <Taneb> A galaxy in turmoil  <Taneb> Anyway, Febuary '10 \ 446) <Taneb> I can't afford one of those!  <Taneb> A grandchild, not a laser printer \ 453) <fizzie> There's that saying that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different 
18:53:34 <HackEgo> 453) <fizzie> There's that saying that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.  [...] <Taneb> You've just gave me a different result  [...] <fizzie> It's always insane to expect different results, even when it's likely to occur. 
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18:59:48 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: qutoe: not found 
19:00:04 <HackEgo> 619) <Ngevd> Dammit, Gregor, this is not the time to fall in love \ 625) [in the context of Open University] <Ngevd> "Unlike other operating systems, Linux operating systems use Linux" \ 628) <fungot> Ngevd:. i'm so kind, even to assholes! anmaster no not markov anmaster no not markov anmaster no not markov anmaster no not markov anmaster no not markov \ 630) <Phantom__Hoover> Also you steal Berwick from us and then 
19:01:01 <HackEgo> 823) <oklopol> nortti: fizzie has done some impressive stuff in befunge, which is essentially the two-dimensional version of finnish politics. \ 824) <elliott> It's... not really links2-optimised.  <nortti> elliott: I don't think that any page is links2 optimised 
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20:48:06 <Taneb> #haskell is the most banny I've ever seen a channel that hadn't been taken over by a musician from New Jersey 
20:48:24 <monqy> does that happen frequently 
20:49:01 <Taneb> It happened once... 
20:49:38 <Taneb> The channel no longer exists, but for a short time I was its owner 
20:50:17 <kmc> people gettin banned? 
20:50:46 <kmc> Taneb: what for / why is it remarkable? 
20:50:51 <shachaf> kmc: A troll is rejoining with different IPs. 
20:50:55 <shachaf> Nothing particularly remarkable. 
20:51:14 <Taneb> (I don't IRC very much, but when I do, I mostly stay in the comfort of this very channel) 
20:54:41 <ion> The best tranny. The banny. 
20:55:15 <Taneb> The intersection between #esoteric and #haskell is a number of people 
20:55:21 <Taneb> That is at least 3 
20:55:35 <shachaf> kmc: Did you solve the EXCITING PUZZLE? 
21:08:40 <Taneb> Sgeo, do the update thing! 
21:10:02 -!- elliott has joined. 
21:10:28 <lambdabot> elliott: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 
21:12:43 <Taneb> There's been sausagey chaos on #haskell 
21:12:44 <ion> @@ @tell elliott @echo @echo @echo 
21:13:18 <lambdabot> monqy: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 
21:14:49 <monqy> i was hopeful when he said "SSH is awesome" but when i asked he says he'd only consider himself a "ssh fanboy" on the condition that telnet was the only alternative :( 
21:16:25 <lambdabot> elliott: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 
21:17:22 <shachaf> @@ @tell shachaf @echo @echo @echo 
21:27:05 <kmc> shachaf: what puzzle? 
21:27:36 <shachaf> How many non-interesecting "8"s can you fit on a plane? 
21:28:26 <Taneb> shachaf, depends how big the plane and the "8"s are 
21:28:41 <shachaf> The 8s can be any size you like. 
21:29:00 <Taneb> I'm going for an infinite number 
21:29:21 <shachaf> The question is whether it's countably many. 
21:29:52 <elliott> I'd guess yes, since you can pack 8s into the dip in the middle. 
21:29:57 <Taneb> I'm going for uncountable 
21:30:12 <Taneb> If the 8s can get stupidly tiny 
21:30:17 <Taneb> (mathematical term) 
21:31:04 <shachaf> Circles are easy but 8s are much trickier. 
21:31:12 <shachaf> What's "the dip in the middle"? 
21:31:26 <Taneb> Consider a circle surrounding an 8 
21:31:38 <elliott> shachaf: The thing connecting the two "o"s. 
21:31:54 <shachaf> Taneb: 8s can go into other 8s, of course. 
21:32:09 <Taneb> shachaf, that doesn't make it any more countable? 
21:32:33 <shachaf> Who said it was countable? 
21:32:46 <Taneb> I claimed it wasn't! 
21:33:11 <Taneb> If it's uncountable without putting 8s in other 8s, it will be uncountable with that ability 
21:33:28 <elliott> It's uncountable because you can imagine packing the reals the same way, Q.E.D.. 
21:33:52 <Taneb> (I have little idea what I'm talking about, btw. Most of my knowledge of this topic comes from reading irregular webcomic) 
21:33:56 <shachaf> OK, so how is it uncountable without putting 8s in other 8s? 
21:34:10 <Taneb> Because the 8s can get stupidly tiny 
21:34:22 <elliott> shachaf: Just pack circles and then s/circle/8/? 
21:34:34 <elliott> 8s have a bounding circle. 
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21:51:43 <shachaf> elliott: No, because circles can go inside each other. 
21:52:25 <shachaf> The obvious packing is f(r : R⁺) = Circle { center = (0,0), radius = r } 
21:52:39 <elliott> OK, but an 8 is just a circle with a twist. 
21:52:49 <elliott> You can pack 8s into the side, which is the equivalent of the inside. 
21:53:06 <elliott> Think of taking a circle and twisting it to make an 8, and what happens to the insides. 
21:53:09 <shachaf> Well, the "obvious packing" I mentioned doesn't work. 
21:53:20 <shachaf> So suggest another packing. :-) 
21:53:22 <elliott> You don't pack the 8 into the 8. 
21:53:26 <elliott> You pack the 8 into the side of the 8. 
21:53:34 <shachaf> OK, but how do you get uncountably many that way? 
21:54:04 <elliott> shachaf: Put a real number in the top circle of the 8. 
21:54:19 <elliott> Note that you can find any real number by diving deep enough. 
21:54:36 <elliott> I'm not going to make a formal proof. 
21:54:42 <shachaf> Actually I have no idea what you mean. 
21:54:48 <shachaf> But I don't think it works. :-) 
21:56:43 <elliott> OK, do you understand what I mean by twisting a circle in the middle to get an 8? 
21:57:31 <elliott> If you imagine a certain kind of (not physically possible twist), you can imagine what's in the very middle of the circle actually ending up at the sides of the middle point of the 8 where the circles join, on the outside. 
21:57:50 <elliott> (It's not physically possible because you sort of twist it in-place.) 
21:58:00 <elliott> (I'm sure there's a fancy topological definition of it.) 
21:58:08 <shachaf> But if you have two non-intersecting concentric circles, and you twist them both, you get two intersecting 8s. 
21:58:25 <shachaf> Oh, maybe I don't understand what you're saying. 
21:58:26 <elliott> Anyway, I didn't even state it based on the circles originally. 
21:58:44 <elliott> The point is: the middle of the 8 has some free space, right? 
21:58:51 <elliott> Where the two circles meet, there's some space to the left and right of the midpoint. 
21:58:52 <Gregor> Estimated delivery date: Today. 
21:58:57 <Gregor> Current location: 2,000 miles away. 
21:59:08 <elliott> So just pack one on each side, and repeat the process. 
21:59:19 <shachaf> That's only going to be countably many. 
21:59:29 <shachaf> I can trivially enumerate these 8s. :-) 
22:00:08 <shachaf> But then it's not an EXCITING PUZZLE anymore. 
22:05:36 <Sgeo> How would a packing problem have uncountably infinite pieces in a space? 
22:06:35 <shachaf> Circles can go inside each other. 
22:06:45 <shachaf> They just can't intersect. 
22:07:37 <elliott> Anyway, tell us the solution. 
22:08:23 <shachaf> You wouldn't want to SPOIL IT, would you? 
22:08:53 <shachaf> elliott: I can give you a hint: 
22:09:01 <shachaf> Is packing discs (filled-in circles) possible? 
22:10:20 <shachaf> OK, so figure that out first. :-) 
22:13:38 <Sgeo> I should post on the Allegiance forums 
22:13:44 <Sgeo> They need to fix the installer 
22:32:29 <Sgeo> elliott, http://type.method.ac/# 
22:33:34 <Sgeo> Does it make sense that the letters at the end aren't movable? 
22:34:10 <elliott> Yes, otherwise the game would be impossible; there would be an infinite number of valid kernings, parameterised on letter spacing. 
22:34:34 <elliott> (i.e. all of http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/40/Letter-spacingS1.png are kerned correctly.) 
22:34:48 <elliott> (Well, ostensibly. Assume they are; they could be incorrect, but that's not the point.) 
22:35:38 <Sgeo> I kept wanting to squish everything together 
22:36:08 <Sgeo> I didn't actually finish the game >.> 
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23:06:47 <oklofok> "shachaf  How many non-interesecting "8"s can you fit on a plane?" rather trivially only countably many 
23:07:29 <oklofok> the idea is similar to the one for "uncountable sum of positive reals is infinite" 
23:08:32 <oklofok> for the latter problem, we note that if for all 1/n, we had just countably many over that magnitude, then we could just take the countable union 
23:10:14 <oklofok> similarly, for the eights, we note that if you take any "rational interval of 8 approximations", then some approximation interval is uncountable, which will be a contradiction. by an approximation interval i mean something like "height of the 8 is between x and y, and the angles in the middle are between z and w" or something. 
23:10:50 <oklofok> this is all very standard, but this is a common problem type in noob competitions 
23:13:31 <oklofok> well okay 8's are particularly simple so you just need to look at the size of bounding boxes 
23:13:50 <Sgeo> elliott, monqy etc 
23:14:36 <oklofok> it is ever so slightly more interesting for Y 
23:21:44 <kmc> "very standard... noob competitions" 
23:22:42 <oklofok> silly bullshit no one should be doing 
23:25:49 <oklofok> can no space with a nontrivial fundamental group have uncountably many nonoverlapping embeddings? 
23:28:23 <oklofok> i don't think you can get anything interesting out of this 
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23:29:16 <kmc> thanks for being a dick about it 
23:29:24 <kmc> i don't think shachaf's puzzle was meant to revolutionize mathematical research 
23:29:47 <kmc> i think it was a little puzzle for a group of people casually interested in mathematics 
23:29:50 <oklofok> finally, someone takes my being a dick seriously 
23:34:28 <oklofok> wait what, did shachaf invent the puzzle? 
23:38:05 <oklofok> also i read my lines and wonder wtf you're menstruating abou 
23:38:45 <oklofok> thanks for being a dick about it 
23:39:02 <oklofok> :--------------------------------------------D 
23:41:46 <oklofok> anyway does this game have a point: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUC2tpY5gb4 ? 
23:42:20 <oklofok> my attention span for flowers is not long enough to get it 
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23:43:28 <oklofok> okay i guess it is, you hit flowers with the petals 
23:44:13 <oklofok> Games aren't always about senseless violence and violence. Some have a deeper meaning and an actual purpose. Take this game, Flower, for instance. It is the opposite of? violence. 
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