00:00:26 -!- PatashuXantheres has joined. 00:03:04 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 00:26:41 -!- ais523 has quit. 00:27:39 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:27:52 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 00:31:57 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:40:14 -!- david_werecat has joined. 00:46:56 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:59:42 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:59:42 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 01:22:52 -!- MDude has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:23:09 -!- MDude has joined. 02:01:28 -!- madbr has joined. 02:29:20 -!- PatashuXantheres has changed nick to Patashu. 02:56:08 -!- david_werecat has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 03:17:38 -!- zzo38 has joined. 03:18:04 Pointers may be more useful than lambda calculus for some things; for other things, lambda calculus may be more useful. Isn't it? 03:19:11 no pointers are Awesome™ and lambda calculus gives you bad breath 03:21:37 Have you ever seen the Kaiji anime/manga? 03:26:28 -!- kwertii has quit (Quit: kwertii). 03:33:46 how many actual programs use lambda calculus? 03:35:50 3 03:36:23 -!- Patashu has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:42:09 -!- Patashu has joined. 03:55:40 -!- monqy_ has joined. 03:55:52 -!- monqy has quit (Disconnected by services). 03:56:12 -!- monqy_ has changed nick to monqy. 04:01:45 Free (CoYoneda f) is always a monad regardless of f, and f can be a GADT of actions, and you can make the monad of the actions to perform, which can also allow the actions to be manipulated. The f could also be a class wrapper: data X :: * -> * where { X :: XC x y => x -> X y; }; class Typeable x => XC x y | x -> y where { ... }; 04:17:52 if your preferred natural language doesn't use the Latin alphabet, what keyboard layout do you use when coding? US QWERTY? 04:19:45 -!- madbr has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 04:35:11 -!- madbr has joined. 04:36:31 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 04:39:29 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 05:51:56 -!- Patashu has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:01:45 zzo38: hay! 06:06:59 -!- asiekierka has joined. 06:08:17 shachaf: OK 06:10:33 -!- glogbackup has joined. 06:10:56 -!- HackEgo has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:11:07 -!- HackEgo has joined. 06:32:21 Do you watch Kaiji? 06:32:30 Do you watch Kaiji or Akagi? 06:33:34 I don't. 06:33:35 Do you? 06:36:10 Yes. I watch Kaiji and I read the Akagi manga 06:36:26 do you watch Akagi and read the Kaiji manga? 06:36:27 monqy: You have 9 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. 06:37:00 lucky monqy 06:37:02 lonqy 06:38:20 Kaiji and Akagi are both very excellent manga written by Fukumoto, although his drawing is bad (he admits this). 06:38:34 Do you read it in Japanese or in Canadian? 06:39:25 Shame there's not a zzo translation. 06:49:59 They are in Japanese. 06:50:29 Although I watch the Kaiji anime with English subtitles 06:52:56 -!- madbr has quit (Quit: Radiateur). 07:13:05 Even though Set cannot be made instance of Monad, a type can be made for the Kleisli category of Set and make the Category instance for that. 07:15:54 Do you like the variant campaign rules for Dungeons&Dragons game and Icosahedral RPG, that I have made? 08:21:33 -!- Vorpal has joined. 08:21:41 -!- Patashu has joined. 08:31:59 -!- Taneb has joined. 08:32:11 Hello! 08:39:28 -!- nortti_ has joined. 09:07:23 -!- nortti_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 09:21:16 -!- derdon has joined. 09:23:43 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 09:50:15 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 09:50:35 yay. got forth interpeter in my ircbot 09:50:54 Go forth and interpret! 09:54:45 -!- zzo38 has quit (Quit: (x-a)(x-b)(x-c)...=?). 10:01:54 -!- Taneb has joined. 10:09:41 @help 10:09:41 help . Ask for help for . Try 'list' for all commands 10:09:54 ^help 10:09:55 ^ ; ^def ; ^show [command]; lang=bf/ul, code=text/str:N; ^str 0-9 get/set/add [text]; ^style [style]; ^bool 10:10:01 #help 10:26:12 -!- oonbotti has joined. 10:26:17 #help 10:26:18 #echo, #welcome, #cat, #ls, #rm, #writefile, #cc, #exec, #msg, #readmsg, #forth, #loadforth 10:26:49 #forth words 10:26:50 : ; WORDS FORGET RESET + DROP SWAP DUP NIP OVER >R * - / . R@ R> MOD 10:26:55 #forth forget forget 10:26:55 ERROR:word 'FORGET' cannot be forgotten 10:27:00 #forth forget + 10:27:02 #forth words 10:27:03 : ; WORDS FORGET RESET DROP SWAP DUP NIP OVER >R * - / . R@ R> MOD 10:27:07 #forth reset 10:27:12 #forth words 10:27:12 : ; WORDS FORGET RESET DROP SWAP DUP NIP OVER >R * - / . R@ R> MOD 10:27:20 #forth RESET 10:27:41 #quit 10:27:41 -!- oonbotti has quit (Client Quit). 10:33:19 %help 10:41:33 -!- oonbotti has joined. 10:41:45 % words 10:41:45 : ; WORDS FORGET + DROP SWAP DUP NIP OVER >R * - / . R@ R> MOD 10:43:35 -!- PatashuXantheres has joined. 10:45:40 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 10:46:35 -!- nortti has set topic: It is the 90s and there is time for the requirements of supervision and control of transmissible spongiform encephalopathies, also an Esolang event @ Hell/Finland on 3.10.2011: https://wiki.helsinki.fi/display/lambda/esoteeriset+ohjelmointikielet | I think pointers are considerably more useful than lambda calculus | 12345678 | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 11:15:08 -!- derdon has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:20:19 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 11:24:41 #cat test.forth 11:24:42 : sq dup * ; 6 sq . 11:25:15 #loadforth test.forth 11:25:15 36 11:25:25 #rm test.forth 12:25:46 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 13:17:38 -!- elliott has joined. 13:18:47 !rawirc QUIT :x 13:18:48 elliott: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. 13:19:09 elliott: new command char is # 13:19:14 #rawirc QUIT :x 13:19:17 aw 13:19:22 #shell ls 13:19:23 bfi.py \ botcmd.py \ botcmd.pyc \ ircbot.py \ msgs.txt \ replacecmd.sh \ sforth.py \ sforth.pyc \ tmpdata \ userdata \ 13:19:35 #shell cat /etc/passwd 13:19:45 #shell rm replacecmd.sh 13:19:52 #shell ls 13:19:52 bfi.py \ botcmd.py \ botcmd.pyc \ ircbot.py \ msgs.txt \ sforth.py \ sforth.pyc \ tmpdata \ userdata \ 13:19:53 22:10:09: Ii never saw anyone other there than Sgeo 13:19:58 nortti: i joined it first. 13:20:00 my channel. 13:20:10 #shell for i in a b c; echo $i; done 13:20:16 your shell sucks 13:20:17 elliott: I declared it, that makes it MY channel ;) 13:20:31 i was considering registering it 13:20:44 elliott: when did you join it? 13:20:50 03:33:46: how many actual programs use lambda calculus? 13:20:50 03:35:50: 3 13:20:52 it's 2 now 13:20:56 nortti: right after it was added to the topic 13:21:44 I joined it 17th May 16:57:15 and there was no one there. 13:22:11 oh wait. yes there was. I didn't notice you 13:23:49 for a long time Sgeo was there but after some time I was left as the only one there 13:27:58 elliott: my shell doesn't suck. It is undocumented feauture of my bot and it requires that you are in oonbotti's .botops file 13:28:11 #help 13:28:11 #echo, #welcome, #cat, #ls, #rm, #writefile, #cc, #exec, #msg, #readmsg, #forth, #loadforth 13:28:42 elliott: also, #forth has alias % 13:28:55 #forth 4 2 13:29:04 % swap 10 * + . 13:29:05 42 13:29:08 hey! 13:29:12 blahbot reserves % 13:29:24 blahbot? 13:29:33 yes 13:29:35 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Jumping_to_-1_is_exciting 13:29:39 rest in peace 13:29:57 -!- azaq23 has joined. 13:30:13 ok, someone called Bfucker has created two brainfuck derivatives in two days 13:30:15 help 13:31:09 elliott: it seems blahbot also reserves ! 13:31:47 or is % just a prefix and not jumping to -1 is exciting command 13:33:24 #quit 13:33:25 -!- oonbotti has quit (Quit: oonbotti). 13:33:58 -!- oonbotti has joined. 13:34:05 $ 42 . 13:34:05 42 13:37:21 also only words >R R@ R> - * / MOD : ; are written in python. everything else is written in forth 13:37:24 $ words 13:37:24 : ; WORDS FORGET + DROP SWAP DUP NIP OVER >R * - / . R@ R> MOD 13:37:39 oh and forget is also written in python 13:37:52 nortti: % was the prefix it used 13:37:57 it had other commands too :P 13:38:04 okay 13:38:05 $42 is how much I paid for it 13:38:07 How much? 13:38:08 $42 . 13:38:28 elliott remember to put space between $ and 42 13:38:30 $ 42 . 13:38:30 42 13:38:33 $ 42 . 13:38:33 42 13:38:36 $42 . 13:38:55 I was deliberately omitting it so I had the chance to possibly complain about your new prefix :P 13:40:19 I also thought using * as prefix and make bot complain if command was not found but then i rememberd what it is used for 13:40:24 *remembered 13:40:34 What's it used for 13:40:46 fixing you typos 13:42:21 elliott: also if it wouldn't need space between $ and words to execute there would be even more annoyance 13:42:24 # 42. 13:42:28 $ 42. 13:42:28 ERROR:Word not found 13:43:45 $ forget + 13:43:53 $ forget drop 13:43:58 $ forget dup 13:44:00 nortti: oh, right 13:44:02 $ forget swap 13:44:07 botte will theoretically use . as a prefix 13:44:08 $ forget nip 13:44:09 .foo 13:44:14 $ words 13:44:15 : ; WORDS FORGET OVER >R * - / . R@ R> MOD 13:44:35 $ : dup >r r@ r> ; 13:44:47 $ : drop dup - - ; 13:45:00 $ : + >r 0 r> - - ; 13:45:25 $ : swap over >r >r drop r> r> ; 13:45:37 $ : nip swap drop ; 13:46:31 that is how these words are implemented in my forth interpreter 13:46:53 -!- david_werecat has joined. 13:47:50 If I remember correctly I could also implement OVER in forth but I don't really see how if I don't have swap 13:49:04 -!- PatashuXantheres has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 13:51:18 $ resetenv 13:51:23 $ words 13:51:23 : ; WORDS FORGET + DROP SWAP DUP NIP OVER >R * - / . R@ R> MOD 13:52:38 $ 1 0 / . 13:52:50 $ 13 5 + . 13:52:50 18 13:53:04 $ . . 13:53:05 ERROR:Stack underflow 13:53:08 $ . 13:53:08 ERROR:Stack underflow 13:57:02 -!- asiekierka has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:22:14 -!- Taneb has joined. 14:23:25 Hello! 14:24:49 hi 14:29:31 -!- Ngevd has joined. 14:31:24 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 14:32:36 -!- MoALTz has joined. 14:39:09 -!- Ngevd has changed nick to Taneb. 14:58:24 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 14:58:27 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Changing host). 14:58:28 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 15:07:48 -!- nooga has joined. 15:08:43 WHY DOES OTOOL OUTPUT AT&T ASSEMBLER SYNTAX ;C 15:09:20 Because all the associated tools INPUT AT&T assembler syntax? 15:09:36 but even stupid gdb has an option for that 15:10:05 otool does too, I think. 15:10:28 + apple's gdb is too old or too stupid to understand disas \m and \r options that i need 15:11:21 the solution starts with l and ends with inux 15:11:31 or starts with bsd and ends with the null string 15:12:03 or maybe it starts with m and ends with inix? 15:12:17 elliott: Actually it ends with "BSD" and starts with a variety of other words. 15:12:35 i was considering saying that 15:12:38 nortti: no 15:12:46 nothing starts with m and ends with inix other than suffering 15:12:49 i could just build binutils on OS X 15:12:56 elliott: I like it 15:13:01 but i'm too lazy 15:13:11 nooga: And then enjoy it not being able to meaningfully handle any of the native binaries? 15:13:20 nortti: ok 15:13:44 i'd rather write a ruby script to crunch otool's output 15:14:00 elliott: 1.5 runs on my old machines, 2 is fast and requires minimal amount of memory and 3 is pretty stable 15:14:03 suffering also starts with r and ends with uby 15:14:11 nortti: thanks for this information 15:14:18 elliott: ruby on minix! 15:14:21 elliott: why? 15:14:39 nooga: i don't know why suffering exists 15:14:58 but why it starts with r and ends with uby? 15:15:23 elliott: also why do you think that suffering starts with m and ends with minix 15:15:27 *inix 15:15:28 nooga: well you're about to find that out for yourself 15:16:17 i code ruby for at least 3 years and still didn't notice anything 15:16:41 then there may be a bigger problem 15:17:05 sometimes people start with s and end with uffering 15:17:07 even though it's quite slow 15:28:27 -!- ais523 has joined. 15:28:28 -!- ais523 has quit (Changing host). 15:28:28 -!- ais523 has joined. 15:33:55 elliott: Sergei von Uffering? 15:34:06 yes 15:34:08 hi ais523 15:34:11 your cloak is broken 15:34:44 I know 15:46:36 `ls 15:46:45 bin \ canary \ karma \ lib \ maketext \ monqy \ paste \ quotes \ share \ wisdom 15:47:00 `ls monqy/ 15:47:02 ls: cannot access monqy/: Not a directory 15:47:09 `cat monqy 15:47:11 hi 15:47:21 `file maketext 15:47:24 maketext: directory 15:47:32 `ls maketext/ 15:47:35 0 15:47:42 ? 15:48:00 `ls -F maketext/ 15:48:03 ls: invalid option -- ' ' \ Try `ls --help' for more information. 15:48:05 `run ls -F maketext 15:48:08 `cat maketext/0 15:48:08 0 15:48:11 No output. 15:48:14 `run rm -r maketext 15:48:17 No output. 15:48:20 `rm monqy 15:48:24 No output. 15:48:37 `file canary 15:48:39 canary: empty 15:49:08 `ls karma/ 15:49:11 ls: cannot access karma/: Not a directory 15:49:17 `cat karma 15:49:20 fizzie now has 1 karma. 15:50:03 `run cat karma | pastelogs 15:50:14 `run cat karma | paste 15:50:17 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.10030 15:50:18 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.28886 15:51:15 iteresting 15:51:23 `file paste 15:51:26 paste: directory 15:53:41 `karma 15:53:46 has 0 karma. 15:53:57 `karma 15:54:02 has 0 karma. 15:54:03 the karma thing is broken because gregor is terible 15:54:16 @karma 15:54:16 You have a karma of 1 15:54:31 ^karma 15:54:35 !karma 15:54:38 %karma 15:54:48 #karma 16:02:33 -!- FireFly has quit (Excess Flood). 16:05:22 -!- FireFly has joined. 16:12:48 `karma 16:12:53 has 0 karma. 16:12:59 `karma nortti 16:13:03 nortti has 0 karma. 16:13:16 `karma Taneb 16:13:22 Taneb has 0 karma. 16:13:30 @karma Taneb 16:13:30 You have a karma of 0 16:13:34 Aww 16:13:55 `karma fizzie 16:13:59 fizzie has 0 karma. 16:14:07 Taneb++ 16:14:14 @karma 16:14:15 You have a karma of 2 16:14:17 oh wait i think I fixed `karma 16:14:21 `++ Taneb 16:14:23 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ++: not found 16:14:27 `karma+ Taneb 16:14:31 i forget how it works 16:14:32 Taneb now has 1 karma. 16:14:34 `karma Taneb 16:14:37 @karma+ HackEgo 16:14:38 HackEgo's karma raised to 1. 16:14:39 Taneb has 1 karma. 16:14:44 `paste bin/karma 16:14:46 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.11427 16:14:53 `paste lib/karma 16:14:56 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.12049 16:15:02 right 16:15:05 it's broken 16:15:10 but it works 16:15:10 sort of 16:21:03 -!- Guest28135 has joined. 16:21:16 `welcome Guest28135 16:21:19 Guest28135: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 16:21:51 Thanks 16:22:19 who are you and what has taken you here? 16:22:40 Me? 16:22:55 yoy 16:22:58 *you 16:23:29 Just looking for new friends 16:24:14 we'ere lots of friends here 16:24:17 do you know anything about esoteric programming languages? 16:24:17 practically a friend party 16:24:23 nortti: what're those 16:24:31 nortti: asl plz? 16:24:31 Cool 16:24:54 elliott: asl pls? 16:25:16 3/m/texas 16:25:24 (texas is a country in the south pacific) 16:25:29 Guest28135: 14/m/Finland 16:25:30 3? 16:25:35 yes 3 16:25:38 i;m a dog 16:25:43 its like 47 in human years or something 16:25:45 elliott: no, texas is austria 16:26:02 Ew 16:26:15 Wew 16:26:18 olsner: by the way are the kangaroos moved there yet 16:27:15 20/m/kuta 16:27:16 nortti: not sure, ask Gregor 16:32:41 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 16:34:11 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 16:40:07 -!- monqy has joined. 16:40:37 Hello 16:40:43 hi 16:40:44 monqy: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 16:41:15 Asl pls? 16:41:31 ... 16:42:18 yes 16:45:55 monqy: asl? 16:46:04 yes 16:46:59 elliott, know any good Forth tutorials? 16:47:07 probably 16:47:28 Can you please recommend one perhaps? 16:47:46 i dont remenmber the ones i know 16:47:52 oh well 16:50:06 how can you know about them if you don't remember them? 16:50:42 olsner: i know how but i don't remember how 16:57:28 I should learn forth some time 17:04:39 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 17:22:03 Vorpal: statring forth 17:23:03 and you can use oonbotti's interactive forth interpreter 17:23:13 isn't thinking forth better 17:23:26 haha 17:23:43 -!- Taneb has joined. 17:23:51 fuck otool -> http://pastie.org/3972547 17:24:08 HEllo 17:24:24 I'm gonna start a Dwarf Fortress over an aquifer 17:24:26 nooga: what is funny? 17:24:44 Taneb: are you termcasting it 17:24:49 NOT YET 17:24:54 ok 17:24:56 nortti: i've added machine code to the output 17:24:57 im watching monqy play twice at once 17:25:16 and some colors (visible only in terminal) 17:25:18 monqy: nice tele traps 17:25:19 nooga: to what output? 17:25:22 in this vaults loot 17:25:37 monqy: nice giant newt dying 17:25:47 and now just a small function left to translate at&t into intel syntax 17:25:59 nortti: to the otool's output of course 17:26:40 Taneb: when do you start termcasting? 17:26:48 SHORTLY 17:26:53 Keep refreshing 17:27:07 what is this with starting over an aquifier? 17:27:17 i've never done that because i was afraid 17:27:25 STARTED 17:28:09 -!- madbr has joined. 17:28:30 nooga: why is there no bindump on your platform? 17:28:54 hmm, I think I mean objdump 17:29:28 whatever... you know, that tool that already does all that stuff you want 17:29:59 olsner: OS X has shitty thing called otool instead 17:30:04 objdump does sound like the right tool for the job 17:30:14 and binutils are not very good with handling native binaries 17:30:41 huh, i know about objdump guys... i'd used it if i could 17:32:23 huh, you already know about it? then why aren't you using it! 17:32:31 BECAUSE OS X! 17:33:34 feels like the correct solution to this problem is finishing the binutils port for mac 17:33:55 Fortress name, anyone? 17:34:28 something stupid 17:34:45 Seizurebears? 17:34:50 Taneb: call it "TANEBS FORTRESS" 17:35:03 olsner, I'm afraid I can't do that 17:35:10 Seizurebees! 17:35:12 olsner: poopborn 17:35:14 yes 17:35:16 seizurebees 17:35:20 `? Taneb 17:35:22 Taneb is not elliott, no matter who you ask. 17:35:23 cheesurebees 17:35:23 Group name? 17:35:27 `? Ngved 17:35:28 beeseizures 17:35:30 Ngved? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 17:35:34 what 17:35:34 beeizures 17:35:35 oh 17:35:36 `? Ngevd 17:35:39 ​:s.6p[.o@5|36aylMߋUϧ9Wg{T;%m.(9R)d9o=KXAКzbwdhFeo~...&rGhϡDJl穬 ).g\.5^s.(..j.v6I!bt.YX{?....mT.)X*K../@..ȞF@s.....v!...N2..E.F..w~CF<..zl*.̠ڡ^!}.>.Cț.nw+[. \ 浒#(.l.A..5;Mz..H[3Z'GyT?.ξ].+1.f3?Ѫ.|)ua!2s)I 17:35:50 he is not null terminated 17:35:56 `? Ngevd 17:35:59 ​\.Vu`|pF^&L\ǂ>.;.J./թfZDnċ.="5WsTWW(P34%|_ \ vң׶.iQ\1.vl&.QS%퍽)#rPb.s.S\8n.UH뤈.皦 o<`7{h3<<^֍c-N..|Rӝ?1v9h9s./yA!]A8v$=>.Zu.؝Pq._C?>.qf.YۓфPSBc|_9Jǩ..a.ָ8li.Mxo \ ..f&..Y.H6W0.7. .O䠖Y.. 17:36:05 btw people watching the termcast 17:36:07 its 80x25 not 80x24 17:36:07 so 17:36:31 EMBARK TIME 17:36:41 (80x25 is default for DF) 17:36:42 what partty name 17:36:43 did you pick 17:36:53 Beeseizures 17:37:05 good 17:37:10 ? 17:37:13 Beeseizures of Doom 17:37:27 type x*y into google 17:37:33 good thing anything really gets bigger than my 160x30 terminal 17:38:04 Taneb: did that really say oklo 17:38:14 I'm... not sure 17:40:10 I... 17:40:17 I thought aquifers were more wet 17:40:30 Taneb: what happens is when you dig the rock goes all bade. 17:40:33 check the wiki for informatione 17:40:43 you don't jsut want to dig down 17:40:47 there s a trick to it 17:41:28 wonder where 80x25 comes from 17:41:49 dos 17:41:50 madbr: MS-DOS? 17:41:53 or rather bios 17:41:57 or rather ibm pc in general 17:42:15 weren't there some other terminals that had that amount of chars before? 17:42:15 VGA BIOS. 17:42:18 -!- asiekierka has joined. 17:42:49 the width of 80 comes from the size of punch cards, which was based on the size of late-19th century american dollars, iirc 17:43:21 yeah vt100 had 80x24 chars 17:45:05 that's probably where the pc's 80x25 comes from 17:45:43 that and probably various signal timing considerations :D 17:48:03 Taneb: did you check wiki 17:48:07 Yeah 17:48:09 if not yuo're fortress will probably die 17:48:09 ok good 17:48:21 My fortress will probably die anyway 17:48:26 This is Dwarf Fortress 17:49:44 And I'm me 17:50:11 for values of probably equal to certainly 17:58:41 -!- madbrr has joined. 17:59:58 -!- madbr has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 18:01:56 hmm, 320x224 used to be a very common screen res because it was easy to get it out of a standard TV 18:03:02 that's because the real tv resolution is 240 lines (from 262.5 if you count HBlank), but TVs overscan for some retarded reason so you only get about 224 18:03:21 so they decided to not make any content for those extra lines over 224 :D 18:05:13 -!- Guest28135 has changed nick to Mike. 18:05:43 -!- Mike has changed nick to Guest86467. 18:06:01 Guest86467: you can't use a name reserved by someone else, try a different name 18:07:16 -!- Guest86467 has changed nick to Guestxxxxx. 18:07:24 Hihihi 18:07:44 hi 18:07:51 mkstemp(Guestxxxxx) 18:09:31 Gregor: has to be six Xs, and they have to be capital 18:09:50 ais523: THANK YOU FOR EXAMINING MY JOKE, CAPTAIN PEDANTRY. 18:09:52 * ais523 thinks that that's a somewhat weird restriction 18:09:54 UP, UP AND AWAY 18:10:10 (also for SNES, 16 extra lines of vblank is nice) 18:10:44 (and saving 16 lines of fillrate on psx is also nice :D ) 18:13:05 ais523: In *your* system’s definition of mkstemp, sure. :-P 18:13:23 -!- asiekierka has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 18:16:27 `quote cblink 18:16:31 825) hack and back? works on anything much slower than you at the cost of: guilt, hating yourself, me sending you the message "hi" am I also forbidden to cast mephitic cloud and cblink i will also send you "hi" if you: kite excessively, use mephitic cloud, -yes 18:19:42 What's a coati? 18:20:27 @google what's a coati 18:20:30 http://www.zooborns.com/zooborns/2009/07/darmstadt-zoo-germany-coati-babies.html 18:20:30 Title: What's a Coati? - ZooBorns 18:22:49 -!- asiekierka has joined. 18:30:32 Going now, bye 18:30:46 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 18:52:37 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 18:59:33 -!- Guestxxxxx has quit (Quit: Rooms • iPhone IRC Client • http://www.roomsapp.mobi). 19:02:12 -!- pikhq has joined. 19:02:48 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 19:06:35 -!- oerjan has joined. 19:09:10 fuck4 forest 19:10:26 oerjan: fuck4 forest 19:11:02 oh 19:11:06 right 19:11:07 that fuck4 19:11:13 you get to tell them about preview 19:11:36 how sad that they will never know 19:12:46 ais523: you get to tell them about preview 19:13:29 oh, right 19:13:39 I missed that one of my RC entries was actually 22 condensed 19:13:59 see, everyone else should use RSS recent changes too, avoids the problem neatly :) 19:15:16 and informed 19:15:34 yay 19:17:54 http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120525/04185919074/tv-networks-file-legal-claims-saying-skipping-commercials-is-copyright-infringement.shtml 19:18:10 KMines’ clock seems to wrap around hourly. 19:18:32 ais523: how horrible is dgamelaunch 19:18:43 slightly less horrible than "horrible" 19:18:49 that doesn't sound good 19:18:52 perhaps "quirky" 19:18:55 how easy is it to set up :P 19:19:01 if you know how to set it up already, it's easy 19:19:02 (also, how much system load does it drain?) 19:19:06 if not, I recommend finding instructions somewhere 19:19:12 (rephrase: would it slow the wiki down) 19:19:31 i could just write my own server but ehhh 19:19:40 dgl itself doesn't put a huge amount of load on the server 19:19:44 things it's running might do 19:20:11 it'll put a higher load on if things produce a lot of output, because of trying to record it 19:20:31 maybe i'll disable autoexplore :P 19:25:45 ais523: would asking you questions about dgamelaunch be productive? 19:26:09 elliott: sadly, the person I find most knowledgeable about dgl at the moment is kerio 19:26:16 I'd probably refer questions to him 19:26:24 (or paxed, who's the current maintainer, but is typically very busy) 19:26:26 that's good 19:26:33 that way you get all the suffering 19:26:57 my question is: is dgamelaunch protocol-agnostic, i.e. can I run it behind anything that can start a remote process, or does it hook into telnet/ssh specially? 19:27:13 oh, I think I know that one, you configure telnet/ssh to run it 19:27:29 so I should be able to get it to run behind mosh, then 19:27:45 monqy: imagine a server that lets you know when you're lagging instead of having to mash an invalid key!!! 19:29:09 i don't think monqy is imagining hard enough 19:32:01 monqy: nice oriph 19:32:16 monqy: fire storm "considered op in light" 19:32:27 it's op in regular crawl too 19:32:28 no surprise 19:32:42 nicer range in light though 19:32:59 monqy: it's ok i'll imagine it without you 19:34:06 speaking of which: 19:34:26 kmc: is it possible to adjust how long mosh waits before complaining about lag 19:37:28 only by editing the source code 19:38:00 kmc: :( 19:38:04 how long does it normally wait? 19:38:57 don't remember 19:39:01 like 10s or so 19:39:37 bah 19:39:39 I'd rather 1-2s 19:39:43 well then 19:39:47 go ahead and change it 19:39:55 but note that the default heartbeat interval is 3s 19:40:12 i'd rather not have to get anyone who wants to use my server to patch and compile mosh 19:40:14 so if nothing is happening you will get a "lag" warning every 3s 19:40:27 the message is a client side thing 19:40:32 kmc: ok 3s is acceptable 19:40:36 so yeah, i guess they would need to compile it themselves 19:40:42 it's for a roguelike 19:40:47 in which the most annoying lag only lasts a second or two 19:41:05 and it'd be nice to be notified of it rather than having to spam a key that has some visual effect 19:41:10 to make sure you're not playing blindly 19:46:29 ANNOUNCEMENT: 19:46:31 I have a kitty. 19:46:49 oh 19:47:05 kmc: how easy would it be for the mosh server to be able to control how long to wait before complaining about lag 19:47:16 and/or how long the heartbeat interval is 19:47:45 with unmodified clients? i don't think that's possible 19:47:52 i mean 19:47:57 how easy would it be for mosh to allow that 19:48:05 soon someone is going to wonder what happened to the previous kitties. 19:48:49 elliott: i think it would not be too hard 19:49:00 kmc: yay 19:49:05 or perhaps Gregor is one of those cat ladies. 19:49:05 you would just make these parameters be part of the terminal-state object which is synchronized between client and server 19:49:16 how much do i need to yell at people to get it to happen :P 19:49:28 that depends on whether your yelling takes the form of a patch 19:49:36 i don't see a great need for this feature; maybe you can elaborate 19:49:49 well 19:49:51 20:40 it's for a roguelike 19:49:51 20:40 in which the most annoying lag only lasts a second or two 19:49:51 20:41 and it'd be nice to be notified of it rather than having to spam a key that has some visual effect 19:49:53 20:41 to make sure you're not playing blindly 19:50:04 if it waits like 10 seconds before notifying you there's lag 19:50:10 then you still have to do that a bunch 19:50:12 which is annoying 19:50:31 if I could configure the server to say "hey, heartbeat every one second and complain about lag every one second" 19:50:34 then it would be massively reduced 19:51:05 -!- oerjan has set topic: It is the year 2525 and man is still alive | I think pointers are considerably more useful than lambda calculus | 12345678 | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 19:51:42 are those digits for elliott? 19:51:49 and does he still have the keyboard problem? 19:51:49 i guess they were 19:51:58 ive just gotten really fast at copying and pasting 19:52:03 elliott: it seems more reasonable to have it be configured by the client, rather than something the server pushes to the client 19:52:05 no, the topic is anachronistic 19:52:49 kmc: fair enough, but "mosh server" is easier to tell people to type than "mosh --heartbeat=1 --lag-timeout=1 server" 19:53:04 it seems reasonable for the server to be able to specify a default 19:53:25 elliott: and thus you are discovering that mosh and telnet are designed to solve different problems 19:53:41 ais523: i don't see the relevance 19:53:47 how does telnet solve my problem any better 19:53:58 telnet does not even indicate lag at all 19:54:17 well, you can write a telnet client that does 19:54:19 (TAEB uses one) 19:55:06 mosh has other advantages too 19:55:13 I don't see why you think it's less suitable than telnet 19:55:51 -!- zzo38 has joined. 19:56:50 it's a strange point to make, given that the mosh client already indicates lag 19:57:02 what point is strange to make? 19:57:09 that you can make a telnet client that does 19:57:14 by way of contrasting with mosh 19:57:31 oh, you were talking about ais523's point 19:57:41 i don't know what ais523 is talking about really :P 19:57:51 that was a counterargument to elliott's argument 19:58:16 which argument 19:58:21 well 19:58:25 it's your original argument that doesn't make any sense 19:58:28 i agree that mosh and telnet solve different problems though 19:58:32 what are the different problems mosh and telnet are trying to solve, in your opinion 19:58:38 and why is my problem more like the problem telnet solves than the problem mosh solves 19:58:42 (and what do you think my problem is) 19:58:52 well, things like ssh are basically based around solving /authentication/ 19:58:58 how to run a shell remotely and proving it's you 19:59:10 mosh is based around how, inside a single-user session, you can keep it connected and so on 19:59:18 telnet is more broadcasty, it allows anyone to connect without checking 19:59:24 the main difference i see is that telnet and ssh convey a reliable octet stream from one point to another 19:59:28 also, telnet is a really well-designed protocol 19:59:35 with all sorts of extensions 19:59:47 ais523: mosh does not depend on ssh 19:59:55 whereas mosh synchronizes the current state of your terminal, without regard for the past 19:59:56 and roaming is not the only advantage it offers 19:59:59 elliott: it does for auth, doesn't it? 20:00:03 ais523: only by default 20:00:06 ah, OK 20:00:15 ais523: there are two layers to mosh 20:00:34 at the lower layer you run mosh-server, it prints an AES key, then you convey that to the client securely (this is up to you) and run mosh-client 20:00:36 I don't think anyone's done much with *other* mosh authentication schemes, but the design of it (as far as I'm aware) is such that you could reasonably use anything. 20:00:50 20:59 whereas mosh synchronizes the current state of your terminal, without regard for the past 20:00:56 this is one reason I find mosh desirable, btw 20:01:08 but for the common case of authenticating over ssh, we provide a wrapper script that runs mosh-server and mosh-client for you 20:01:12 because that's likely to be more efficient at updating a changing game screen 20:01:12 is there an utility to batch convert unix text files to cr-lf format 20:01:20 and also because it means that setting your TERM to something different doesn't break spectators 20:01:23 madbrr: unix2dos 20:01:24 madbrr: unix2dos 20:01:41 ais523: oh, and I find ssh a preferable auth mechanism to telnet 20:01:42 is it console or gui 20:01:46 ais523: because sending passwords in the clear sucks 20:01:49 Console. 20:01:52 heck, many roguelike servers use ssh already 20:01:53 for the compression 20:01:56 elliott: just tell telnet to use ssl 20:02:04 "Batch convert"? GUIs suck for that. 20:02:13 ais523: i think you're trolling at this point 20:02:26 elliott: telnet with ssl is installed and currently running on nethack4.org 20:02:26 pikhq: was thinking of something more like oggdropXPd 20:02:31 ais523: i am aware of this 20:02:33 it's also irrelevant 20:02:46 ie a GUI app designed to convert a lot of files conveiniently 20:02:52 madbrr: So, you want a child's toy. 20:02:55 no 20:02:56 pikhq: there is https://github.com/dmilith/genmosh 20:03:13 I want something that's convenient 20:03:17 madbrr: for x in *.c; do unix2dos "$x"; done 20:03:19 madbrr: for i in *.txt; do unix2dos $i; done 20:03:20 and I don't really like console apps 20:03:21 the last time I looked at the code, it seemed like a security disaster 20:03:27 also I'm running win7 20:03:37 So, you want a child's toy. Got it. 20:03:43 jesus no 20:03:51 "child's toy" is a really stupid way of phrasing that 20:03:53 "hi, how can I batch convert unix to dos files? but i have to do it while blindfolded using only my left pinky toe" 20:04:03 but a console application is really going to be 10x more convenient for converting a bunch of files in batch 20:04:06 than having to select each one 20:04:13 get some real tools and then use them to solve your problem 20:04:15 kmc: more like highlight a bunch of files in explorer, drag, drop, kdone 20:04:23 faster than the stupid console 20:04:28 you realise you can drag things to console programs right 20:04:46 pikhq: so I wouldn't recommedn this genmosh to anyone ;P but it's at least an example of someone making an alt mechanism and publishing it 20:04:58 I typically use a one-liner Perl script, unix2dos never seems to be installed when I need it 20:05:01 In fact, in Windows, if you select a bunch of files and drag it onto a console program, it passes those files as arguments. 20:05:04 i wish web browsers supported ssh authentication 20:05:10 also maybe it got less disastrous 20:05:13 (/is/ unix2dos a one-liner Perl script, I wonder? never thought of checking) 20:05:18 that is 20:05:20 ssh key authentication 20:05:24 In Windows, it is possible to drag files from Explorer into the command prompt window. 20:05:38 kmc: It's a good example of the *principle* that you can implement alternate authentication. 20:05:39 pikhq: doesn't that tend to bust the command line length limit? 20:05:46 Possibly a similar program could be made for Linux too 20:05:52 pikhq: or was that just a win98 limitation 20:05:58 another good reason not to use windows :) 20:06:05 zzo38: does it depend on the version? I seem to remember that that doesn't work from Windows Vista onwards due to some complicated security thing involving messaging 20:06:18 zzo38: it already works in linux 20:06:25 madbrr: Huh, it's 32k. 20:06:26 with reasonable file browser/terminal combinations 20:06:29 well 20:06:33 dude, I compose music, the win32/64 programs for that are just much, much better than the linux ones 20:06:35 reasonable as in similar 20:06:48 madbrr: so install a real command line environment for windows 20:06:56 such as cygwin 20:06:58 no, cygwin is retarded 20:07:05 no u 20:07:09 so do you want help or do you want to complain and annoy everybody 20:07:13 if the latter, please just /part instead 20:07:17 it seems to me that you now have a task different from composing music, for which win32/64 may not be a good choice 20:07:31 madbrr: When I compose music I find the programs best which are cross-platform anyways 20:07:32 just wanted some useful nice tool 20:07:35 olsner: don't you know the old aphorism "use the right tool for one specific job I do and the wrong tool for everything else" 20:07:46 not that the operating system is really relevant at all here 20:07:50 madbrr: k, I think you have your answer by now that we don't know of one 20:07:58 madbrr: well, you've been offered several practical and convenient ways to do what you want 20:08:16 I've been offered one yes 20:08:34 multiple awyways 20:08:47 For music I use things such as MCK 20:08:50 you can convert in WordPad, I think, although not batch-convert 20:08:59 use a console program and drag stuff to it (whether the icon itself or a running console prompt); or install cygwin and use that to circumvent limits with the previous solution 20:09:02 (and also allow convenient globbing) 20:09:03 also been preached to for not liking neckbearded tools and the command line 20:09:13 no, I don't care if people don't like command lines 20:09:20 in general, GUI programs are bad at batch jobs; you can design a GUI for one specific batch job, but you can't make a general one to handle batch-ising of jobs 20:09:22 I care if people complaing when they're suggested for good and justified reasons and then just yell and insult people 20:09:25 like you're doing now 20:09:29 I don't think there's a GUI version of xargs, nor can even figure out how one would work 20:09:31 so, just go away 20:09:39 There's also the option of reporting bugs in a bunch of software: programs SHOULD support most reasonable newline conventions. 20:09:48 ais: for some very specific case you'll have to use batch scripts yeah 20:10:12 ais523: Select a group of files, drag them to an executable. By GUI convention, that behaves like xargs. 20:10:17 and even not in those cases, I often do anyway because it's a much simpler and faster way of expressing what I want 20:10:17 Gregor: we already suggested that 20:10:25 Gregor: that behaves like xargs for opening files 20:10:26 madbrr isn't happy because it involves a console window popping up at some point presumably 20:10:30 and then he'd be a neckbeard!!! 20:10:31 is there an equivalent for performing transformations? 20:10:37 I'm not REALLY reading, this conversation is very stupid. 20:11:00 elliott: nah, drag and drop to console apps is fine 20:11:11 ...then why are you still complaining 20:11:15 that was the second thing suggested 20:11:28 "neckbearded tool" 20:11:42 I find usually even drag/drop not needed since you can use wildcards and/or tab completion, but sometimes dragging the files to the command-line window is very useful 20:12:19 zzo38: Yes, but you're not offended by the idea of using a command line tool. :) 20:12:56 Even if using a system that does not support dragging between windows, if there is a clipboard (such as the X clipboard or whatever) you can make it that whatever files are selected their full paths goes on the clipboard. 20:13:24 Probably the PRIMARY buffer, so that you can then middle-click the terminal emulator window to paste the names there. 20:15:03 sounds like a neckbearded solution 20:15:57 someone hecked my aim and it gave me a neckbeard 20:15:59 uhhhh 20:16:05 what else have we been referencing for the past 17 years 20:16:33 someone hecked my aim and it trapped me in a matrix of solidity, causing me to grow a neckbeard 20:16:37 what is a neckbeard anyway? 20:16:55 i think the clue's in the name 20:18:01 seems to me that neckbeard should either be just "beard" or just "hair" 20:18:08 depending on which side of the neck you're referring to 20:19:02 Vorpal: statring forth <-- thanks 20:19:18 Vorpal: i think thinking forth is meant to be better 20:19:21 but i don't recall exactly 20:19:23 (same author) 20:19:24 and you can use oonbotti's interactive forth interpreter <-- I'm learning forth because I need to use it, so I already have a target implementation in mind 20:19:26 (i've read neither) 20:19:34 Vorpal: forth implementations tend to differ wildly 20:19:40 what is the one you are planning to use? 20:20:00 olsner: it's a specific kind of beard 20:20:17 elliott, you know about the minecraft mod redpower2? Adds a fully emulated 6802 running forth into minecraft. :) 20:20:24 (as of the last version) 20:20:28 i don;t have a beard. there's just a black hole underneath my face 20:20:36 Vorpal: ok well the chances that's ans forth are pretty low i'd say 20:20:55 elliott, I looked at it, and it looks like pre ans forth yeah. 20:21:02 elliott has been a singularitarian too long 20:21:09 hmm, based on the internet, I think I've identified my usual beard as a neckbeard 20:21:44 but I'm not sure... am I supposed to shave my face but leave my neck, for it to become a neckbeard? 20:21:45 Vorpal: then any intro book will probably cease being useful to you after a sufficient number of chapters 20:21:51 elliott, anyway that mod is cool, you can put redwire (basically better behaved redstone dust, that doesn't fade so quickly, can be insulated, can run on walls and much more) 20:21:53 -!- asiekierka has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:22:26 elliott, I just need help getting started with the basics really. 20:22:52 olsner: i think the idea is that a neckbeard is an extension of a regular beard.. 20:23:05 Yeah, redpower is awesomeness. 20:23:24 its the first time ive heard that word though 20:24:23 elliott, also that mod has probably the lowest density memory ever: 8K expansion modules connected to the backplane, each module a full cubic meter! 20:25:00 Vorpal: By Minecraft standards that's impossibly high density. 20:25:09 quite! 20:25:12 im not so sure now 20:25:40 pikhq, looked at Mystcraft btw? It is basically a mod that lets you write books linking to new dimensions (with certain properties you discover by experimenting and can then use at will), in Myst style 20:25:43 quite a nice mod 20:25:44 Vorpal: Little bit. 20:25:47 Pretty neat. 20:26:05 Vorpal: Checked out frames in RP? 20:26:07 other great mod: logistics pipes (addon for buildcraft). 20:26:27 pikhq, that is what I'm going to use my forth skills (that I'm planning to learn) for. 20:26:39 Good choice. :) 20:26:48 automated mining machine. With the enterchest mod to move stuff back to base. 20:27:11 :) 20:27:19 hm I have a lot of mods installed. Using the multimc launcher currently, it is really good. 20:27:43 handles installing the mods for you, you just drag the zip files into it and it handles the rest 20:27:46 I use some hacked up shell scripts. :) 20:27:56 pikhq, I'm too lazy for that 20:28:16 anyway I needed something that was cross platform, since I sometimes dual boot one computer to windows 20:28:41 pikhq, anyway: used logistics pipes? 20:28:45 Oh yeah. 20:28:48 It is t3h awesome. 20:29:17 I have like 250 auto crafting tables set up along the walls of a room, with logistics pipes connected to them 20:29:31 only issue is that the request interface gets clunking with that many recipes 20:30:23 but still, many mod recipes are downright annoying. Like the frame motors.... Oh and the wireless redstone ones (another mod, using the one that integrates with redpower) 20:31:56 like you need to make an obsidian stick, then a "reather pearl" (sp?), then combine those. Then combine that with a stone bowl you just crafted. Now you have an antenna dish. And that is just about half the work of a transmitter or a reciever... 20:32:32 hm, actually that is for receiver, there is no dish for the transmitter 20:32:53 pikhq, anyway, which mods do you play with? 20:35:44 I think the bigs ones ATM are RP, IC, BC, logistics pipes, EE... 20:36:15 personally: in jar: modloader, forge, mystcraft, NEI (for displaying recipes and for cheating in my test world), rei minimap, optifine. In mods/: buildcraft, equivalent exchange, ender chests, forestry, industrialcraft, invtweaks, laser mod, logistics pipe, compact solars (IC2 addon), ironchests, railcraft, redpower, treecapitator, WR-CBE (that is the wireless redstone one), somnia (so time is simulated 20:36:16 while you sleep). Plus a few smaller buildcraft addons. 20:36:40 oh and I forgot that IC2 addon that adds like induction furnace tire machines for macerator and so on 20:37:12 I used to use the portal gun mod too. It is fun but a bit overpowered for survival... 20:38:13 pikhq, you should try out railcraft. It is kind of neat. A bit more useful in SMP though I feel, since you don't tend to get cities to travel between in single player 20:38:38 still, stuff like elevator rails are cool :) 20:40:05 You guys are still playing MC? 20:40:05 Phantom_Hoover: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 20:40:17 Phantom_Hoover: On occasion. 20:40:21 Phantom_Hoover, only heavily modded MC. Wouldn't play vanilla any longer 20:40:32 and not as much as I used to 20:40:35 What happens, really, is sometimes I get in the mood and play for a while, and then leave it abandoned for a while. 20:40:55 played fallout new vegas today a lot. And a bit of MC 20:41:25 Phantom_Hoover, I found I roughly play every other release of MC. 20:41:50 I hardly touched 1.1, did quite a bit on 1.0 and I am now playing 1.2.5 quite a bit 20:44:23 pikhq, btw I found that an issue with EE is that it pretty much makes any other sort of resource acquirement pointless once you reach the EE endgame. I could just slap down a mark 3 collector next to a energy condenser and set it to generate diamonds, then hook up a provider logistics pipe. And I no longer need to mine any diamonds... 20:45:06 Vorpal: By the time you hit the EE endgame, resource acquisition is just an annoyance anyways. 20:45:11 well yeah 20:45:36 pikhq, but I hit it before redpower frames were added, so now I'm kind of hard pressed to find a use for my frames :P 20:46:49 currently I have more red matter in my automated farm for that than I know what to do with. I started transmuting the stuff into pedestals to save space! 20:47:05 (I don't like throwing away EMC) 20:47:51 -!- FluffBall has changed nick to Zuu. 20:48:52 pikhq, of course, since I have forestry I have not even reached close to the endgame of THAT. God damn bees with 8% chance of mutation... 20:49:34 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 20:49:41 ah, read the log :) 20:51:01 pikhq_, every tried the forestry mod? 20:52:29 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 20:53:07 it is a nice kind-of-addon to buildcraft (it used to be an addon, but now it is technically freestanding, though significantly more useful with buildcraft). It adds biofuel for example, as an alternative to the finite oil resource of buildcraft. 20:54:00 also adds stuff like reed farms, tree farms, peat farms and what not. Oh and *really* in-depth beekeeping. 20:59:12 -!- calamari has joined. 21:00:01 My new hobby http://youtu.be/_aW6d46VbpM 21:01:22 ion, did the guy inside survive? 21:02:20 I know as much as you do. 21:03:29 ion: Your new hobby is killing yourself in stupid ways? 21:03:45 gregor: Yes, preferably losing an arm in the process. 21:04:45 "derka derka allah jihad [+18]" the only thing stupider than youtube comments is the people who upvote youtube comments 21:04:56 have you heard that ELKS has got an update? 21:05:04 Gregor, I'm just amazed that guy didn't kill anyone else as well 21:06:10 Besides, the quote is "derka derka muhammed jihad". 21:06:35 elliott: Verily. 21:07:20 pikhq_: it doesn't really matter what the quote is 21:07:54 Course, that movie was really, really stupid... 21:21:43 nortti: Weird, I'd have assumed ELKS to be pretty dead. 21:22:20 fizzie: me too. but they got release out after 6 years 21:23:45 Maybe it's some sort of a zombie kernel. 21:25:08 maybe. they also got it to git and left cvs behind 21:25:56 can elks even run git 21:26:49 I don't think so 21:27:37 they also got a new project: busyelks. it is busybox style thingie for elks. 21:29:57 which ELKS? 21:30:38 Vorpal: Embeddable Linux Kernel Subset 21:30:45 Does ELKS still use bcc? They should switch to owcc ... 21:30:49 heh, never heard of that one even 21:30:49 it's 21:30:55 Embeddable Linux Kernel System, isn't it 21:30:57 nortti, so something like µclinux? 21:30:59 oh the website disagrees with itself 21:31:05 Gregor: they still use bcc 21:31:17 Vorpal: basicaly. but for 8086 21:31:22 ah 21:31:38 hm wasn't/isn't there a C compiler frontend with a name just like ELKS? 21:31:53 something very close anyway? 21:33:04 urgh... need to sleep, just feel half asleep on top of my keyboard for a few seconds... 21:33:05 bye 21:34:55 i love microsleeps 21:36:55 It’s fun when you happen to be pushing some key at the time you fall to microsleep. 21:37:08 -!- Patashu has joined. 21:37:11 As in, “it’s fun when you happppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppp” 21:37:25 -!- Vorpal has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 21:37:41 happpppy happpppy fun 21:38:30 You might not even notice you took a short nap except that a bunch of repeated letters suddenly appeared on your screen. 21:45:02 -!- azaq23 has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 21:45:25 first set my hands in the right place, then type with my eyes shu.. and, little errors may start to creep in.. 21:45:40 its god if you just typing to type 21:47:57 the trouble is overcompensating if you think you held a key too long 21:48:43 -!- azaq23 has joined. 21:48:55 -!- azaq23 has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 21:50:08 -!- azaq23 has joined. 21:50:17 -!- derdon has joined. 21:50:17 -!- azaq23 has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 21:51:00 -!- azaq23 has joined. 21:56:56 Gregor: is owcc open watcom? what kind of license they have? 21:57:27 yes, it is 22:09:19 * Sgeo is watching an IWBTG blind LP for some reason 22:17:07 nortti: Yes, Open Watcom. It's under a wonky but usable license, FSF-rejected but OSI-approved because it actually /requires/ that you publish changes you make in certain circumstances where you don't even publish the binaries. 22:17:33 Gregor: bleh, that's dfsg-violating 22:17:45 why would the OSI approve that? it's evil 22:18:03 dfsg-violating? 22:18:21 Yeah, it's not a great license X-D 22:18:25 @google dfsg wikipedia 22:18:27 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debian_Free_Software_Guidelines 22:18:27 Title: Debian Free Software Guidelines - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia 22:18:42 it fails the desert islnad test 22:18:43 *island 22:21:19 and the dissident test 22:24:10 * shachaf sighs. 22:24:23 if (!strcmp, name, EXPECTED) { 22:24:30 I was wondering why my code was being odd. 22:24:59 Um, wow. 22:25:02 shachaf: what :D 22:25:09 Should've been compiling with -Wall 22:30:23 shachaf: Well, it is *valid* C, at least. 22:30:30 :) 22:30:35 pikhq_: That's the problem. :-( 22:40:39 strictly conforming, isn't it? 22:40:44 Yes. 22:40:55 shachaf++ 22:40:57 It's *silly* behavior, but it's quite well-defined. 22:41:03 working on the IOCCC are we 22:41:15 (silly in the sense of "nobody would intentionally do this") 22:43:37 oerjan: "valid" means "strictly conforming" in the context of C :P 22:43:43 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 12.0/20120420145725]). 22:44:23 elliott: ah. 22:44:37 does gcc -Wall actually catch that 22:44:40 Yes. 22:44:51 warning: the address of ‘strcmp’ will always evaluate as ‘true’ [-Waddress] 22:45:01 warning: left-hand operand of comma expression has no effect [-Wunused-value] 22:45:43 ah nice 22:48:00 -!- FireFly has quit (Changing host). 22:48:00 -!- FireFly has joined. 22:49:23 -!- nortti_ has joined. 22:52:07 * oerjan swats FireFly -----### 22:53:00 What now? 22:53:12 we were severely under quota here 22:53:15 kmc: Are syscalls actually made through the VDSO? 22:53:35 `quote 22:53:36 `quote 22:53:37 `quote 22:53:38 537) elliott_, oh they are people known in the ruby community? Vorpal: Uh... you mean Hannah Montana? elliott_, yeah. And Zed Shaw. Either they are that or they come from popular culture. 22:53:39 `quote 22:53:40 `quote 22:53:41 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 22:53:46 411) Gregor: do you have any idea how overrated lives are Damn right! 22:53:48 195) That is the mark of Gregor right there. tswett: except that Gregor didn't write that It's still the mark of Gregor. 22:53:56 718) The only way you could do better would be to implement Monopoly with chocolate. 22:53:59 39) [...] sometimes i cant get out of bed becasue the geometry of the sheet tangle is too fascinating from a topological perspective 22:54:04 411 imo 22:54:05 ais523? 22:54:09 shachaf: on Linux i386 it's the current preferred mechanism, though direct int $0x80 still works 22:54:10 either that or 195 22:54:11 elliott: I was about to say 411 22:54:15 or 537 22:54:20 i like 537 22:54:20 I like 195 22:54:24 `delquote 411 22:54:27 ​*poof* Gregor: do you have any idea how overrated lives are Damn right! 22:54:30 bleh, you ninja'd me 22:54:32 shachaf: on Linux amd64 you use the 'syscall' instruction directly, and the VDSO is only for userspace "vsyscalls" like gettimeofday 22:54:38 kmc: Ah, but on amd64 it just uses the syscall instruction? 22:54:44 good thing I managed to cancel typing that, or I'd have to revert the deltion of the new 411 22:54:46 `quote 411 22:54:48 Yes, that's what it was looking like. 22:54:49 411) " Damn right!" wouldn't be much of a quote :P 22:54:55 `pastefortunes 22:55:00 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.7017 22:55:04 oh well, that one's deleratble too :) 22:55:08 no 22:55:09 leave it 22:55:15 you must leave quotes that get their meaning removed 22:55:15 So where can I get a guaranteed executable syscall instruction in the address space? :-( 22:55:26 I guess the VDSO (a) still has them and (b) isn't guaranteed. 22:55:34 shachaf: i don't have any new ideas since last time 22:55:39 `quote 410 22:55:42 410) decrypt 'illustrates the "can do" approach of conservatism in a patriotic way' 22:55:55 I mean Intel 64®, not amd64. 22:56:03 Or is that Intel® 64? 22:56:10 itanium 22:56:12 it works on both 22:56:13 Better go with Intel® 64® just to be safe. 22:56:29 "intel 64" ≠ ia64 22:56:33 Right. 22:56:55 basically 22:57:00 just assume the names are maximally confusing 22:57:09 intell's 64bit x86 CPUs are actually amd64 CPUs 22:57:23 -l 22:57:34 Yes, and they're also Intel® 64® CPUs. 22:57:49 Did you figure out an answer to newsham's question? 22:57:52 elliott: Or you! 22:58:03 pclmullqlqdq 22:58:11 What was newsham's question? 22:58:26 elliott: It was about how you can figure out the cardinalities of polymorphic types. 22:58:41 -!- JKL1234- has joined. 22:58:53 `welcome JKL1234- 22:58:56 JKL1234-: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 22:58:56 For example, forall a. a -> a has one inhabitant, and forall a. a -> a -> a has 2. 22:59:14 Can you do a pseudo-algebraic thing like you normally do with cardinalities to figure it out? 22:59:22 a -> (a -> b) -> a -> b is also 2 22:59:40 JKL1234-: What brings you here? 22:59:56 -!- JKL1234- has left. 23:00:08 That was a short visit. 23:00:31 shachaf, which two? 23:00:39 Apply is one, obviously. 23:00:47 Phantom_Hoover: There are two "a"s to apply. 23:01:00 Oh, duh. 23:03:17 -!- atehwa has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 23:03:22 shachaf: You need parametricity for that. 23:03:23 i.e. you can't prove it everywhere that the algebraic type law stuff applies. 23:03:23 presumably it's true in system F 23:03:23 I have thought of things like that too; with things like (forall x. x -> x -> x -> x -> x -> x) the cardinality is how many -> there are. And do you know what kind of function (forall x. [x] -> Maybe x) is? 23:04:03 zzo38: the latter could branch on length to select which element, if any, to use? 23:04:13 -!- atehwa has joined. 23:04:19 oerjan: Yes. 23:04:28 although it needs to have an upper bound if you allow infinite lists 23:04:28 (a -> a) -> a -> a is Nat 23:04:50 shachaf: Yes, that is church natural numbers 23:06:52 oerjan: What it seems to me is that if the input and output are treated as natural numbers, then the type constrains output to be less than or equal to the input 23:06:53 shachaf: for a start, you can try to construct the adt it emulates, like a -> a -> a means there are two constructors with no arguments 23:07:18 (a -> a) -> a -> a means there are two constructors, the first takes an argument of the same type 23:07:31 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 23:07:32 (i.e. Succ and Zero) 23:08:27 zzo38: well yes that's one way of looking at it 23:13:18 --- google.com ping statistics --- 23:13:21 27 packets transmitted, 23 received, 14% packet loss, time 42327ms 23:13:21 rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 17.485/31.434/156.107/32.597 ms 23:13:26 -!- calamari has quit (Quit: Leaving). 23:13:34 there is something wrong with this connection, right? 23:14:05 oerjan: Well, is there the other way? 23:15:07 hmm it seems like all stack based data manipulation cam be defined using : ; >R R@ R> BEGIN WHILE LOOP IF EPSE THEN - > 23:15:17 *cab 23:15:23 *can 23:15:33 (in forth) 23:15:41 *ELSE 23:15:55 And maybe you mean REPEAT instead of LOOP 23:16:04 also, I'm again reminded that TCP can function even in cases of heavy packet loss 23:16:18 zzo38: yes 23:17:00 oh and with AND bitwise arimethrics can be implemented 23:17:21 zzo38: they're presumably all equivalent... 23:17:22 ais523: not very well, though 23:18:12 ( : NOT 0 SWAP - 1 - ; : NAND AND NOT ; ) 23:18:13 well, yes, but what would work better? 23:18:28 and 14% isn't as bad as it could be, it mostly just confuses slow-start and that sort of thing 23:19:12 But I guess I can see how they work : DUP >R R@ R> ; : DROP IF THEN ; 23:20:41 zzo38: actually : DROP DUP - - ; 23:21:12 : + >R 0 R> - - ; 23:21:31 Yes, that works too 23:22:17 ( that is how it is implemented in oonbotti's forth ) 23:22:31 And even if you don't have 0 if you only have 1 you can still make : 0 1 1 - ; 23:23:48 actually even without numbers : + >R DUP DUP - R> - - ; 23:26:45 also numbers can easily be defined with if you have 0 1+ 23:27:51 $ : 2DUP >R R@ OVER R> ; 23:28:08 $ 1 2 2DUP . . . . 23:28:08 2 1 2 1 23:29:29 $ : ROT >R SWAP R> SWAP ; 23:29:51 $ 1 2 3 ROT . . . 23:29:52 1 3 2 23:31:27 -!- ais523 has quit. 23:32:51 : > < NOT ; : = 2DUP > -ROT < OR ; 23:35:03 -!- ais523 has joined. 23:35:07 forth is pretty awesome because how much of it can be derived from so little 23:36:28 Forth is awesome because when people call it "simple" they're not lying. 23:37:41 : 0 R@ DUP - ; 23:37:51 :P 23:39:27 and with that and 1+ we can define : 1 0 1+ ; 23:41:12 : 2 1 1+ ; : 3 2 1+ ; : 4 2 2 * ; : 5 4 1+ ; : 6 2 3 * ; and so on and so on 23:43:46 Why does strcpy(dst, src) return dst? 23:43:51 That's such a useless value to return. 23:44:05 shachaf: no it isn't 23:44:13 you may well want to assign it to something 23:44:36 So assign dst to that something. 23:44:45 A much more useful value might be dst + strlen(src) 23:45:01 i agree w/ shachaf 23:45:10 strcpy is practically broken because of that 23:45:14 Or void. void would be better than always returning the first argument. :-( 23:45:45 shachaf: Yes I agree, dst + strlen(src) would probably be better 23:46:12 `quotw 195 23:46:14 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: quotw: not found 23:46:16 `quote 195 23:46:19 195) That is the mark of Gregor right there. tswett: except that Gregor didn't write that It's still the mark of Gregor. 23:46:31 `quote self 23:46:34 43) I spent the last minute or so killing myself repeatedly \ 88) so a.b.c.d.e.f.g.h.i.j.k.com might be self-relative, but a.b.c.d.e.f.g.h.i.j.k.l.com always means a.b.c.d.e.f.g.h.i.j.k.l.com.? \ 106) if you claim that the universe is more than 3D the burden of proof is on you to produce a klien bottle that doesn't self intersect ^ I learned that trick from atheists 23:47:23 So, did quote 195 actually happen, or is HackEgo hallucinating? 23:47:43 hi HackEgo 23:47:45 HackEgo 23:47:46 hmm, it'd be entirely possible to produce a klein bottle that doesn't self-intersect by using time as the remaining dimension 23:47:53 but might be quite mechanically awkward to create one 23:48:03 tswett: it probably just run out of space on the line 23:48:20 `quotificate ais523 23:48:23 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: quotificate: not found 23:48:30 Yes, but my logs for freenode don't contain the phrase "mark of Gregor" except as said by HackEgo in that quote. 23:48:49 perhaps you weren't there when you said it 23:48:50 Try a case-insensitive search. 23:49:01 `pastlog ..:..:..: ais523++ 23:49:31 Perhaps someone else said it in my name? 23:49:34 No output. 23:49:42 I'm checking my local logs (of every channel), because I'm in the quote too 23:49:49 perhaps it wasn't in #esoteric 23:49:54 * shachaf gasps. 23:50:04 My hard drive is only 750GB. 23:50:22 I once contemplated getting a 1TB hard drive, so I assumed that it must be 1TB. 23:50:41 [Monday, December 06, 2010] [06:50:33 pm] It's still the mark of Gregor. 23:50:56 in #esoteric 23:50:59 -!- MDude has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 23:51:02 Ah. My logs stop three weeks before that. 23:51:06 that'll be UTC not glogbot-stupid-timezone 23:51:20 stupid glogbot !! 23:51:27 Well, I have a strict one-year limit on identity. 23:51:35 heh, that quote was 270 for a while 23:51:39 tswett: I have a 15-second limit! 23:51:43 in 2010 23:51:46 and it's 195 nowadays 23:51:51 my logs didn't capture any numbers in between 23:51:52 If something was done by someone more than one year ago, it was not done by me. 23:52:17 @quote tswett 23:52:18 No quotes match. That's something I cannot allow to happen. 23:53:20 -!- ais523 has quit. 23:53:50 00:51 that'll be UTC not glogbot-stupid-timezone 23:53:56 @tell ais523 glogbot's stupid timezone is UTC 23:53:57 Consider it noted. 23:55:23 elliott: oh, I dropped a few status updates here, too :) The event went fine, the voluntary exercises ran for a couple of weeks, no one really cared to do them, so I quit giving them. 23:55:58 atehwa: Aw, that's a shame. 23:56:03 Good to hear the event went well, though. 23:56:04 So, to summarise: consciousness about esolangs was heightened, there was nice participation across different universities, it was fun, and not very much else resulted. :) 23:56:19 Sounds like the esolangs community in general 23:56:26 no surprise :) 23:57:33 actually, the event was really fun. They posed a lot of good questions, both the likes of "how would you do this in Thue?" and the likes of "is there something that uses videos as source code"? 23:57:58 oh nooooo I got the quotes and the question mark the wrong way