00:00:29 zzo38, what sort of systems do you think those companies use? Probably x86-based 00:00:40 get a grip on reality 00:00:42 Vorpal: I suppose so 00:01:47 zzo38, most likely any company printing large volumes are going to send it to a printing house as a PDF btw. 00:02:54 But what if you want PNG? 00:02:56 nortti_, anyway, all the platforms (apart from MIPS possibly, I don't know enough about the details for it) listed uses IEEE floating point 00:03:10 you embed it in the PDF? 00:03:17 or what do you mean? 00:03:25 Can PNG be embedded directly to PDF? 00:03:27 Vorpal: what systems don't? 00:03:56 zzo38, pretty sure that EPS, PNG, JPEG and JPEG2000 are the formats that can be embedded in PDFs 00:04:07 nortti_, ? 00:04:11 apart from microcontrollers 00:04:23 nortti_, what? 00:04:32 what systems don't what? 00:04:41 plenty of systems have no hardware floating point 00:04:46 software fpu is probably ieee though 00:04:59 Vorpal: what systems don't use IEEE fp 00:05:02 kmc, indeed. So you end up with IEEE in any case. Which was my point 00:05:10 nortti_, no common modern ones 00:05:10 ppc is not dead... 2 of the 3 major game consoles use PPC architecture 00:05:12 that was my point 00:05:22 kmc, actually Power 00:05:29 for the PS3 00:05:34 ok 00:05:36 fair enough then 00:05:37 which is the same ISA yes 00:05:42 kmc: tty1 is running NetHack, tty2 is runnin Crawl, tty3 is running robotfindskitten 00:05:45 All x86. 00:05:46 kmc: which one isn't? 00:05:46 kmc, don't remember what xbox or Wii uses 00:05:55 kmc, xbox might actually use PPC? 00:06:09 oh, I forgot that the Wii also does :) 00:06:14 never mind, 3 :) 00:06:18 kmc, right 00:06:39 Vorpal: I suppose, you should know the printing resolution as well? Since, TeXnicard produces PNG outputs at the printer's resolution. So hopefully PDF support such things if it is required to use PDF, but it would be better to just send the PNG directly if it is the correct resolution already 00:06:56 kmc, so 2 of them uses PPC, and one uses Power, which is the same ISA pretty much (except that it is Cell, which means that it is just one out of the many cores that has that ISA) 00:07:26 zzo38, mhm. Seems silly to not produce vector graphics if you can though 00:07:39 shachaf: this is what #haskell actually believes? 00:07:53 ppc is kinda nice ISA. Good thingvppc macs are cheap 00:07:56 kmc: 17:02 shachaf: maybe like this?? class StringLike s where f :: CharLike c => s -> (c,s) 00:08:03 -v+ 00:08:14 Vorpal: No, it is using all raster fonts, raster graphics, etc 00:08:24 also lol @ telling zzo38 to get a grip on reality 00:08:26 zzo38, why? 00:08:40 kmc, you have a point there 00:08:50 Vorpal: They are better if you know the printer's resolution 00:09:26 kmc, I think I have been pragmatized (does that word exist?) over the last few months. Seen what commercial software development looks like. 00:09:59 zzo38, why? I don't see why they wouldn't be equally good if both produce the same end result 00:10:01 It uses TFM/GF for fonts, and PBM and PNG for graphics. 00:10:07 Vorpal: should I also start assuming I can use more than 64kB code+64kB data? 00:10:09 Vorpal: did you start a new job? 00:10:15 which they would in situations where vector graphics are good enough 00:10:47 Vorpal: No it won't; raster is better quality *if you know the resolution of the printer*. 00:11:14 kmc, I did my bachelor thesis with a software development company. Pretty common here in Sweden. Been doing indoor positioning using WLAN. 00:11:23 cool 00:11:32 Vorpal is in Sweden? 00:11:41 shachaf, no. I'm on Mars. 00:11:44 Oh. 00:11:48 Vorpal: Where in Sweden are you? 00:11:56 shachaf, why? 00:12:02 It's Stockholm, right? 00:12:05 shachaf, no 00:12:07 and why? 00:12:15 You should get kmc to visit you! 00:12:30 MSE is not only using vector but also JPEG, which results in poor quality output especially also since the printer resolution is not set correctly either. 00:12:30 kmc lives in Sweden? 00:12:40 No. He's on Mars. 00:12:43 ah 00:12:50 And JPEG isn't even a vector format so it has to use raster as well 00:12:59 shachaf, anyway geoip for kmc claims US 00:13:09 kmc: You should get a cloak! 00:13:10 shachaf, anyway why would I live in Stockholm. I hate big cities 00:13:19 You can get them from that one person in that one channel. 00:13:25 :D 00:13:50 Vorpal: kmc is visiting .fi sometime. 00:13:50 shachaf, anyway why are you interested in where in Sweden I am? 00:14:07 s/in // 00:14:39 shachaf, I may tell you if you give me the reason why you want to know 00:14:50 I have no reason for wanting to know. 00:15:09 I've been in Sweden for two non-consecutive days of my life. 00:15:16 oh well, that is fair enough. About 30 Swedish miles from Stockholm (a Swedish mile is 10 km) 00:15:38 MSE is intended for printing worst quality than official cards. TeXnicard is intended for printing better quality than official cards. 00:15:49 shachaf, so quite far away 00:16:06 Vorpal: I just said I have no reason for wanting to know! Why are you telling me? 00:16:12 zzo38, s/worst/worse/ 00:16:17 I think that is what you mean? 00:16:27 shachaf, because you answered my question 00:16:31 shachaf, that was a valid answer 00:16:31 Vorpal: Yes 00:17:33 -!- nortti_ has quit (Quit: leaving). 00:20:56 -!- derdon has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:27:35 -!- oerjan has set topic: waking in yo | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 00:31:42 -!- augur has joined. 00:32:36 I would like to have the Magic: the Gathering symbols in METAFONT 00:34:15 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:34:50 kmc: You shoult not get a cloak. You should get a clock! 00:36:01 :C 00:36:10 report.c is so hacky 00:36:21 Muahahahaha 00:36:31 Gregor: halp 00:36:44 SORRY CANNOT HALP FROM CHINA 00:37:20 quintopia: i was going to rewrite report.c 00:37:22 if that hels 00:37:23 helps 00:37:42 trapped in fortune cookie factory 00:38:36 Gregor: can't even tell me what the hell kind of method is being used to store the scores? it is a signed char *, and the part where it gets read into looks like 00:38:45 st = 0; 00:38:45 SF(tmpi, read, -1, (scorepipe[0], &st, sizeof(int))); 00:38:46 scores[row + i] = st; 00:38:50 quintopia: You think I REMEMBER??? 00:39:01 Gregor: MAYBE 00:39:05 I would assume one char per score, in some kind of logical order. 00:39:21 quintopia: I was going to rewrite it in Haskell. 00:39:21 why would a score be a char 00:39:23 Errr, looks like one INT per score there. 00:39:40 quintopia: Because it's never going to be less than -128 or greater than 127? 00:39:47 oh 00:40:03 elliott: is it easy to do linear algebra in haskell? 00:40:22 i think i found a linpack binding 00:42:00 i figured out how to do my scoring with just one dgesv 00:43:02 so, if you rewrite report i can put it in fairly easil 00:43:25 i can go ahead and give you the gearlance i modified to report both program scores which i need to compute my scoring 00:49:13 huh, I was doing some changes to installed components of windows on this windows 7 system. Strangely enough it didn't want the DVD to add minesweeper. And no it is not an OEM install with everything on the disk. This is installed from a stock DVD with windows 7 on it 00:49:27 elliott: are you serious about rewriting report 00:49:51 elliott: as in you could get it done over the weekend or w/e? 00:49:53 quintopia: yes 00:49:55 well 00:49:55 geeks will be geeks: "The IceCube collaboration is now discussing the possible addition of a second infill, called PINGU (Phased IceCube Next Generation Upgrade), which would group an additional series of strings in DeepCore and allow IceCube to detect oscillations as low as a few GeV." 00:50:01 this was when i was doing lance 00:50:07 so 00:50:09 maybe i will have a god at it 00:50:17 *go 00:50:19 but i can't promise anything :P 00:51:04 elliott: should i attempt to hack report.c now or wait to give you a chance to have a go at it 00:51:28 feel free to hack at report.c, if you want to 00:51:34 I don't want to hold you up 00:51:44 I'm usually not very good at doing things 00:51:56 breaking everything is the next logical step 00:53:21 elliott: if i hack report.c and get it running my scoring, would you be able to use that code to add my scoring to your version if you ever decided to do it? 00:53:33 quintopia: depends how horrible linpack's c api is :P 00:53:40 but yes probably. i might have to ask you about some things 00:54:31 it will probably be nearly as straightforward as report.c already is (read: stupidly ugly) 00:54:54 http://theochem.mercer.edu/clapack/dgesv_example.c if this makes sense to you, then my portion of the code should be no problem 00:56:41 it 00:56:42 sort of does 00:57:14 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 00:57:32 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 01:08:47 elliott, iirc linpack uses the opposite row/column order of multidimensional array compared to the normal C way 01:08:52 just a heads up 01:08:58 :( 01:09:08 elliott, it is because fortran does it that way 01:09:11 columns first 01:09:17 ...what's the "normal C way" 01:09:35 Lumpio-, row first? 01:09:53 Says who 01:11:02 Lumpio-, well the point is fortran and C interprets foo[2][3] (and the fortran equiv) the opposite ways in how they are laid out in memory 01:11:39 of course you could consider either way of laying out the data in that array 01:11:48 it is up to the programmer 01:30:34 hey kmc 01:30:36 you know c++ right 01:32:17 Nobody /knows/ C++ 01:32:23 Except maybe stroustroup 01:32:32 Or however you spell it 01:33:30 by knows i mean 01:33:34 can write code that a c++ compiler will accept 01:33:35 sometimes 01:34:25 sorry, all c++ programs stopped compiling after the venus transit 01:34:48 this is probably for the best 01:36:34 elliott, oerjan: btw I might end up writing embedded C++ code for a living. How does that sound? 01:36:47 i know some c++ yeah 01:36:49 why elliott 01:36:51 whelliott 01:36:56 kmc: if i have an std::vector member in a class 01:37:00 and it has its own constructor 01:37:04 do i have to initialise it in the constructor 01:37:08 or will it just be empty all by itself 01:37:11 Vorpal: awful 01:37:26 elliott, running on RTOS btw 01:37:49 (which is actually the name of a specific RTOS!) 01:37:58 (confusing? yes) 01:38:07 elliott: if you do nothing, the ctor for your class will invoke the default ctor for the memer object 01:38:26 even if it has its own ctor? ok 01:38:27 if you want to invoke a different constructor, you would put it in your ctor's initializer list 01:38:34 yes 01:38:41 Vorpal: im going to get past vorpal to kill you for writing proprietry softwawerjio 01:38:42 if there's no entry for foo in the initializer list, it's like foo() 01:38:45 kmc: right 01:38:53 i'm not sure this class even uses initialiser lists 01:38:57 this codebase is 01:38:58 elliott, well I would have to do something for a living 01:38:59 not 01:39:00 very good 01:39:31 C++ does take some care to make sure values of object type (as opposed to pointer or reference type) are actually valid objects 01:39:39 elliott, anyway it is not like this is going to be useful for most people if I get the job. It is for mining rigs. 01:39:48 (Atlas Copco) 01:41:06 ugh this codebase uses int so casually 01:41:30 elliott, in place of long or what? 01:41:56 in place of something with a defined size, since it's a cross-platform game and this stuff goes into save files and is actually game-relevant and so on 01:41:59 ok depending on your definition of relevant 01:42:14 if you complete 2 billion or so ziggurats then bad things will happen 01:43:05 which game is it? 01:43:38 crawl light 01:43:41 ah 01:43:48 what is a ziggurats? 01:43:52 err ziggurat 01:44:05 is that read as zuggu-rat? 01:44:08 ziggu* 01:44:11 it's an actual word :P 01:44:15 oh? 01:44:21 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ziggurat 01:44:28 hm so it is 01:44:32 it's a portal; you pay a bunch of money and then go through 27 levels of very difficult monsters in a confined spcae) 01:44:34 what a strange word in English 01:44:42 it's not english-native 01:44:46 s/spcae\)/space/ 01:45:03 argh why does this editor keep resetting to hard tabs on every file 01:45:24 I first went like "hey, isn't crawl light a free game?" at that "you pay a bunch of money" before I realised it was in game money 01:45:50 I would definitely pay in real life to go through a portal though! 01:46:08 (assuming it teleported me) 01:46:12 not to a ziggurat, you wouldn't 01:46:19 fair enough 01:47:56 i could see an mmorpg charging to enter something like that 01:48:25 you could see the game itself charging to enter it? 01:48:26 what? 01:48:53 what's confusing 01:48:53 elliott, ^ 01:49:03 what's confusing 01:49:26 you could see an mmorpg game charge in in order for it to a portal? 01:49:29 to enter* 01:49:33 I wonder if it would ever offend an employer if I mentioned The Daily WTF 01:49:37 As in, due to the language 01:49:44 oh wait I misread 01:49:45 right 01:49:49 lol 01:50:03 Vorpal: yes, why not? 01:50:04 I mean real-life money 01:50:06 elliott, I read it as if the game itself charged (ran) into a portal 01:50:07 XD 01:50:14 oh 01:50:21 that is 01:50:23 that was why I was somewhat confused 01:50:24 a dumb interpretation :P 01:50:30 elliott, yes it is 01:50:44 elliott, I'm tired 01:50:50 i'm tried 01:51:06 I'm tyre you are glue. Wait what. 01:51:33 (I /do/ hope you get that reference) 01:51:52 hi 01:52:10 night 01:52:33 Do you like the computer game called "Potion of Confusing" in MegaZeux? 01:52:37 -!- pikhq has joined. 01:52:47 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 01:54:04 + if (runes.size() < NUMBER_OF_RUNES_NEEDED) 01:54:08 why would you use this and not runes_in_pack 01:54:09 gah 01:54:41 oh hmm 01:54:47 no, still makes no sense 02:05:32 Go into the various doors to find the nice purple keys. You can open the door toward the west if you have enough keys. Hold second one as you hold a pencil. There are some gibbering mouther to the west locked up in the room behind the door. It is good idea if you can save them, please. Also, some of them like the potion of confusing as well, so it would be nice if you can give that to them too. 02:06:22 They also like to speak in confusing way and to eat your blood a bit too so you should learn that too, please. If you have any more potion of confusing remains, then you should quaff a potion of confusing too if you like to do so. Good luck, and goodbye! 02:07:36 You can save at any time, and can create multiple save files; it might be good idea to do so. However, you can always abandon the level you are on, and try it again later (it will restart if you have not completed it). Every time you exit a level (whether you win or lose), your stats are reset, so you cannot use ammunition or anything like that from one level in another one. 02:07:48 Also, this game is public domain, so you are free to do as you wish, please. 02:08:10 Keyboard: I = identify player R = reset S = sound test Z = clear message row 02:17:33 hi 02:17:54 elliott: sorry, it's yo today 02:19:05 Do you like this description of this game? 02:19:36 oerjan: I don't recognize that color 02:21:08 that could be because it isn't one 02:23:29 -!- MerlynKorr has joined. 02:24:04 thanks 02:24:19 `welcome MerlynKorr 02:24:21 MerlynKorr: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 02:25:18 right on... 02:30:33 -!- MerlynKorr has left ("Ex-Chat"). 02:30:45 does anyone know how you can git blame some removed lines 02:30:51 I want to find out which commit removed a function 02:31:33 git log -S? 02:32:57 thank's 02:33:18 oh 02:33:20 nobody actually removed it 02:33:23 how convenient 02:35:47 it never was there in the first place? 02:35:55 (dun dun dun) 02:48:20 shachaf: How can I selectively revert hunks in my current changes? 02:48:28 Like "git commit -p", but instead it undoes them. 02:55:41 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 02:55:46 My Internet is worse than I thought. 02:55:51 TCP drops. 02:55:54 UDP doesn't. 02:56:01 Seriously, you have to *work* to do that. 02:58:22 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 03:04:27 -!- david_werecat has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 03:04:48 elliott: I don't know. 03:04:49 Maybe something involving git-rebase? 03:05:07 There's a SPLITTING COMMITS section in git-rebase(1). 03:05:51 But they aren't committed yet. 03:05:58 Oh. 03:06:12 So like git-add -p, then. 03:06:17 or git commit -p 03:08:02 Except you're talking about adding, not committing. 03:08:08 Anyway, git-add --interactive? 03:09:04 I'm just, like, lookin' at man pages here, man. 03:09:40 But it looks like git-add --interactive's [r]evert will do what you want. 03:11:48 Ah. 03:11:49 Thankxxe. 03:15:31 pikhq_: i've found many connections where Mosh works, whereas IRC/ssh can't achieve a connection 03:15:49 i think the amount of packet loss you need to make TCP completely unusable is < 100% 03:16:52 It only takes 99.999...%! 03:16:55 The Worst Internet Argument. 03:19:06 yes 03:19:16 you know who else believed 0.99999… = 1? 03:20:38 kmc: Actually, it's weird: for a second or two I get 100% packet drop, and then my TCP connections are dropped. 03:20:53 While UDP keeps going. 03:22:34 kmc: Is this a "make other people self-Godwin" trick? 03:25:02 pikhq_: ohh 03:25:03 odd* 03:25:10 i don't have the TCP flow control rules memorized 03:25:17 but it should take more than a few seconds to drop a TCP connection 03:30:26 elliott: Is there even a 'b' at the end of that "herb"? 03:30:44 kmc: I'm suspecting it's broken equipment somewhere on my link. 03:30:55 kmc: It should take *quite a while* for TCP to drop. 03:31:09 But it takes a mere fit of stupid in a NAT to drop TCP. 03:33:18 shachaf: Yes. 03:36:29 yeah 03:36:32 did you look at the packets 03:37:20 kmc: I wish strace could do that. :-( 03:37:42 Maybe if you straced User-Mode Linux. 03:40:40 the packets, they do nothing! 03:43:06 -!- pikhq has joined. 03:43:08 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 03:43:12 hey urbandictionary, who are you calling sub-human 03:44:23 what 03:46:11 http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=The%20goggles!%20They%20do%20nothing! 03:46:36 Attractive Girl: "You're so right, I'll have sex with YOU now instead of that loser." 03:55:53 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 03:58:18 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 04:05:19 With my ideas relating to typeclasses in Ibtlfmm, and local instances, then implicit parameters are the same thing and therefore do not need an extension like GHC's -XImplicitParams. You can simply do: sort :: a. (method cmp :: a -> a -> Bool) => [a] -> [a] So an implicit parameter is the same as a class method. 04:21:32 -!- david_werecat has joined. 04:27:54 -!- pikhq has joined. 04:28:16 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 04:28:22 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Good night). 04:32:04 shachaf: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/10956419/why-isnt-every-type-part-of-eq-in-haskell 04:55:00 -!- pikhq has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:56:42 -!- elliott has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:59:27 -!- pikhq has joined. 05:59:52 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 05:59:52 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 05:59:52 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 06:02:30 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 06:05:03 * quintopia sucks seeds 06:09:58 I agree with Hawking's "Reality is not a quality you can test with litmus paper." 06:11:35 But I agree with some of Penrose's ideas as well. 06:11:56 But mostly I agree my own ideas instead, based on the mathematics and on what else I read and try to think about for myself 06:16:51 In my opinion the proper theory must not only involve quantum mechanics but also general relativity, and that spacetime must be considered together rather than separated and relative rather than absolute. 06:17:44 I consider my own interpretation: causality-breaking physics. 06:18:08 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 06:18:14 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 06:18:16 Also, the true reality is that of mathematics. 06:18:48 But there are cases in mathematics where more than one answer is possible; for example, a square root of 9 can be positive 3 or negative 3. 06:18:58 So too it may be with the universe. 06:20:26 If the mathematics says one thing that people say is extremely crazy and impossible, but it is mathematically correct, then even if you don't believe it, I must believe it unless the experiment refutes it. 06:20:59 What kind of quantum interpretation did you like????? 06:21:09 -!- Taneb has joined. 06:21:20 Hello 06:21:37 What kind of quantum interpretation did you like????? 06:21:43 Me? 06:21:50 Many-worlds 06:22:22 Taneb: I have uploaded the version of prelude-generalize tell me if you have a documentation I will add it on, if you want to reorder the exports that is OK too 06:22:34 Yeah, I'm working on that 06:22:50 Taneb: Read the log what I wrote what my opinion is of quantum interpretation see if you agree/disagree/partial/neutral. 06:24:09 It seems... compatible with most interpretations of quantum physics 06:26:13 Not really knowing much about quantum mechanics, general relativity, or physics in general 06:27:08 zzo38: do you prefer quantum decoherence or collapse postulate? 06:27:17 s/quantum/macroscopic/ 06:28:42 Just see what fits better with experiments, if any. 06:29:56 both equally well 06:30:08 you don't have an opinion? 06:30:33 quintopia, can you explain them to me? 06:30:45 I do not know what "collapse postulate" means, although I know some things about wave function collapse. 06:31:00 The Wikipedia article for "collapse postulate" redirects to "wave function collapse". 06:31:41 quintopia: Well, it isn't something I have thought of much, although maybe I should 06:33:50 I would think wave function collapse is simply the way to find the subset of the wave function which is considered to be measured. 06:33:57 Taneb: macroscopic decoherence is many-worlds. it just says that the wavefunction never really collapses into a particular subset of decohered states. advantages are: it doesn't involve collapse (acausal, undifferentiable, nonlocal, unexplainable phenomenon that it is) disadvantages are: Born probabilities 06:35:20 Taneb: collapse is the old-fashioned one. it says that the universe abandons a set of decoherent possible states at the point where they become "too large"...instantly and exactly as the Born probabilities would dictate (though it doesnt say why) 06:35:54 So in other words, I am saying that wavefunction collapse is an emergent phenomenon. 06:36:05 What're Born probabilities? 06:37:27 zzo38: by "emergent" do you mean "magical"? 06:38:22 Taneb: the probability that a particular decohered amplitude distribution is the one in which we will find ourselves is equal to the square of the amplitude it contains 06:38:40 Okay 06:39:30 quintopia: No, I mean emergent from the way the fundamental mathematics would be applied. 06:40:21 zzo38: these days "emergent" is tossed around to mean "it just kinda happens when other stuff happens, but i'm not going to speculate on the details" 06:40:40 aka, it is used in the place of an explanation rather than as a part of one 06:42:11 There may be causality loops, and causality breaking, as I have written above. So causality breaking might place restrictions on the mathematics, and well as observation, so what you observe (including consciousness and so on, although this too is emergent) will be what agrees with the observer's state. 06:42:46 Division by zero is not allowed, and this already makes some things emerge in physics, so it can do other things too. 06:43:39 "what you observe will be what agrees with your state" sounds an awful lot like a belief in macroscopic decoherence, while "there may be causality breaking" sounds like a belief in collapse 06:43:50 i think you are confused and should read more on the subject 06:44:45 Yes perhaps I am a bit confused. I have read some books and some Wikipedia too, and I try to work the mathematics on paper and on computer too. 06:49:09 Also my opinion, quantum states which are not part of the current point of view may be entangled with ones that are, for possible entanglement across multiverse. Note that I mean the multiverse that is related; not the Ultimate Multiverse. 06:50:04 -!- asiekierka has joined. 06:54:31 zzo38, I'd be careful or Marvel may sue you. 06:56:25 By Ultimate Multiverse I mean what Brian Greene wrote about where everything that is mathematically correct is mathematically exist as some kind of universe. 06:57:05 (Sometimes it is restricted to computable mathematical formulae, but I disagree with this; it should be everything whether computable or not.) 07:00:14 "Reality" cannot possibly be more than what you define it to be; otherwise it is nothing. 07:01:19 You cannot call something an objective reality in these kind of physics; you just say the mathematics is this and that and so on, and the experiment will be like this and that and so on. 07:02:19 Ambiguity should be OK, as long as it is mathematically meaningful. 07:04:10 If a mathematics tell you the probability of something is greater than 1, then that would mean is more likely than being definitely, and that seems impossible, but if mathematics tell you the answer is such a thing, how do you know that there is no such things as more likely than being definitely? 07:19:23 When discussing all these things about interpretation of physics, they cannot always involve science and sometimes they involve philosophy instead, but they also involve mathematics, too. 07:20:55 If mathematics tells you that the probability of something is more than 1, you should check your calculations... 07:21:23 Lumpio-: Well, yes, one possibility is that you have miscalculated, so you should check. 07:21:47 zzo38: that is the only possibility in that case 07:21:53 zzo38: you have some strange ideas 07:22:13 Yes I know my ideas are strange 07:24:37 But if a probability really is greater than 1, you still use the same rules of probability as otherwise, so if probability of one thing is 2 and another independent thing is 1/2 you can multiply for the probablility of both happening must be 1 so it must happen for sure. I do not know if this is possible but if it is possible then I would think it must work like this 07:25:10 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 07:26:42 zzo38: probabilities must be in (0,1) in the real world. just like infinity doesn't actually exist in the real world. 07:28:23 quintopia: O, now you are talking about the "real world" again; but reality is not a quality that can be measured by litmus paper. 07:33:56 Even if you do not agree that a probability can be 2 (I am not quite sure either), would you agree that if it is possible, then you would still multiply them like I described? 07:34:43 Maybe there is a mathematical proof that it is impossible but I don't know of any. 07:43:18 -!- Taneb has joined. 07:43:21 Hello 07:44:10 A probability greater than 1 is a bit silly 07:44:20 If the same rules still apply, you can make anything as probable as you want 07:44:33 Just repeatedly do the thing that has a probability >1 07:44:40 And then the improbable thing 07:44:46 Like 2*2*2*2*2*2*2*0.00001 07:45:01 (Needs more 2^n but you get the point) 07:45:45 To do that there needs to be seven independent events having a probability of 2 07:46:19 I can see what you are saying, though. 07:46:29 But still I am unsure, due to a few reasons. 07:48:39 In future once result is known, the probability from that point changes. It may lead to paradoxes such as the probability becoming less once the first event is known to occur, but this does not seem to be truly a mathematical contradiction. 07:49:49 Of course this is from the point of view; it doesn't necessarily have to do specifically with space and/or time. 07:49:59 It simply has to do with known/unknown. 07:50:47 wtf have you been smoking 07:52:14 But there may be things which can only be known together or which it is impossible to know two things at once, and other ways where the probability gets used, rather than in the way which is most familiar. 07:52:19 Lumpio-: I don't smoke. 08:00:56 Now I have the even-more-dubious honour of having my code removed from Uncyclopedia 08:01:28 Take that, Gregor 08:04:02 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: ADVENTURE TIME). 08:13:51 Never thought I'd see zzo38 discussing philosophy. Not sure why. 08:23:39 Actually I think of philosophy a lot. 08:24:22 -!- Taneb has joined. 08:24:23 Hello 08:24:48 Can anyone tell me if there exists an IM client with a text-based interface and Skype combatability? 08:24:55 *compatibility 08:26:47 I do not know of any. 08:31:18 :( 08:39:20 Why is my Yahoo! account getting spam in Persian? 08:39:59 Taneb: Is it acceptable if you have to have the graphical client running /somewhere/, but can use the text client for all other purposes? Because the libpurple plugin uses the proprietary client's API. 08:40:29 Possible 08:51:05 -!- david_werecat has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 08:53:09 -!- yorick has joined. 08:57:22 I would like to know, if you like the description of the computer game "Potion of Confusing" which I have written above? It is the text which appears in the game. 09:19:31 -!- derdon has joined. 09:21:26 -!- nooga has joined. 09:33:13 -!- azaq23 has joined. 09:37:38 -!- asiekierka has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 10:00:24 -!- derdon has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:05:29 -!- asiekierka has joined. 10:10:55 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 10:17:23 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 10:17:29 -!- DH____ has joined. 10:21:50 -!- derdon has joined. 10:53:47 -!- derdon has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:53:55 -!- sebbu has joined. 10:53:55 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 10:53:55 -!- sebbu has joined. 10:57:05 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 11:01:48 -!- Patashu has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:02:07 -!- Patashu has joined. 11:30:46 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 11:49:01 -!- oonbotti has quit (Quit: oonbotti). 11:49:59 uhm. I thing I managed to mess something up: 11:50:11 :oonbotti MODE oonbotti :+i 11:50:11 PRIVMSG oonbotti :I see. And what does that tell you? 11:50:12 :oonbotti!~oonbotti@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi QUIT :Excess Flood 11:50:12 PRIVMSG oonbotti :How do you feel when you say that? 11:50:12 ERROR :Closing Link: a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi (Excess Flood) 11:50:14 PRIVMSG RROR :Can you elaborate on that? 11:51:17 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 11:56:22 nortti: Yes, clearly it is failing 12:04:40 -!- Taneb has joined. 12:10:03 -!- monqy has joined. 12:12:19 -!- oonbotti has joined. 12:13:09 now it answers you if you contact it by /msg oonbotti message 12:13:31 you can still execute commands with /msg oonbotti command 12:15:11 Hello 12:15:46 hi 12:19:02 OK so I've now seen three photos of Shamus Young, and in none of them does he look like he does in any of the others. 12:19:38 Which one's Shamus Young again? 12:19:51 DM of the Rings guy. 12:19:55 Okay 12:20:10 Also several other things, like former ActiveWorlds dev. 12:20:38 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: lunch). 12:44:24 Do you know any MML -> MOD/S3M/IT/XM? 12:45:06 -!- Taneb has joined. 12:45:11 Hello 12:46:21 Hello 12:46:43 Can I think of something else to obfuscate? 12:47:02 No, I don't think I can 12:47:58 Do you know how to write music for a computer game I make? 12:48:05 No! 12:48:10 12:48:12 I have no musical talent whatsoever 12:48:57 Maybe Gregor knows? 12:49:16 Or perhaps madbrr knows? 12:57:00 Taneb: Do you play Pokemon Card? 13:06:28 zzo38, used to collect them 13:06:46 Never really got far 13:07:07 I don't collect any cards, but I sometimes play the game 13:08:36 @ping 13:08:37 pong 13:09:30 What rules would you prefer to adjust in Magic: the Gathering? 13:09:38 I've never played it 13:09:57 The only custom-deck card game I've actually played is Sopio 13:11:33 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 13:14:37 (which is really fun! 13:14:38 ) 13:19:00 hi 13:19:10 Hello 13:22:34 I dislike the rule that a aura which is also a creature is discarded; I dislike the rule that a token ceasing to exist as a state-based effect (in my opinion it should instead be based on initial states of objects); I think being unable to draw a card should be an immediate loss (rather than state-based effect); I think many of the rules are klugy 13:27:41 you know what would be nice, having tasked based subsets of your Application menu in xfce. Like you select which group of programs to show launch icons for directly in your task bar 13:27:58 for example, one group for C coding, another for photo editing work and so on 13:28:26 because if I were to have all the icons there all the time, it would take up too much space 13:29:37 would be even more useful under windows, since under linux it is fairly easy to start programs from the shell instead 13:31:20 -!- nooga_ has joined. 13:31:29 hey guys 13:32:06 nooga_: OK 13:32:54 OK what? 13:34:24 OK 13:34:29 oh 13:34:30 OK 13:35:13 -!- nooga_ has quit (Client Quit). 13:40:02 i was testing Cathode 13:45:05 -!- DH____ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 13:52:23 nooga, Cathode? 13:58:11 @ping 13:58:11 pong 14:01:17 -!- asiekierka has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:01:26 -!- david_werecat has joined. 14:02:38 @ping 14:02:38 pong 14:08:59 I'm kinda bored 14:14:06 Then do something 14:14:11 Read book 14:14:17 I just finished a book 14:14:22 And I have so many to choose from 14:14:25 Taneb, read another book? 14:14:26 Write a book 14:14:43 Taneb: have you read 1984? If you haven't read it 14:14:46 Taneb, use a RNG to decide which book to read next 14:14:50 +then 14:15:03 nortti, don't own a copy 14:15:05 Taneb, or go read tvtropes 14:15:15 I'm avoiding TVTropes 14:15:26 Taneb, why? 14:15:33 if you are bored you have some spare time 14:15:35 so just do it 14:15:38 I want to do other things this evening 14:15:46 Try to play Super ASCII MZX Town 14:15:55 Taneb: borrow it from library. or if you live in australi or canada download it as it is under public domain there 14:16:03 Hmm 14:16:12 Local library is closed 14:16:19 But I'm an Australian citizen... 14:16:19 nortti, how can it already be under public domain there? 14:16:47 Vorpal: 50 years after death of author (1950)=2000 14:16:48 Taneb, I hope you have an ebook reader then, reading long texts on a normal monitor is horrible 14:16:52 nortti, ah 14:23:06 I'll have still to wait 8 years before it will be under public domain here 14:23:15 *still have 14:23:38 nortti, where is "here"? 14:23:46 in finland 14:23:48 ah right 14:28:02 -!- elliott has joined. 14:28:18 elliott, hi 14:28:22 hi 14:28:23 elliott: You have 3 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. 14:28:27 help 14:28:32 Popular chap 14:28:38 monqy: hi 14:28:39 quite so 14:28:48 hey 14:28:59 And this is coming from someone who had over 1800 friends on facebook 14:29:44 Try to play Super ASCII MZX Town, perhaps. 14:38:55 shachaf: @DanielWagner: that's right I meant functions without parameters (variables?): a against a -> b for example. – L01man 4 hours ago 14:49:23 " I would like to know, if you like the description of the computer game "Potion of Confusing" which I have written above? It is the text which appears in the game." <<< you mean that whole thing about maths and probabilities over 1? 14:50:47 oklopol: No! 14:50:50 I mean the other one 14:51:00 Above that; search log perhaps 14:58:38 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 15:04:44 you're no good at this oklopol 15:05:58 I have a week of free time and decent programming experience. Give me everything you've got on Haskell. (self.haskell) 15:06:02 hahahahahhhhh go away 15:06:11 why are you at the top of /r/haskell 15:06:29 oh god. I started reading tvtropes half an hour ago and I can't stop 15:07:36 nortti: you can never stop 15:07:41 at best you can take a break, but you will be back 15:09:06 what works is realising it's boring and closing the tabs 15:09:11 usually 15:09:28 elliott: I have no tabs 15:09:33 http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=pNuUNHlsPgI 15:09:35 then you have two problems 15:09:50 why? 15:11:07 "...and points out that needlessly killing other students is not the best way to go about things." 15:11:11 Taneb: what is the weather doing 15:11:17 Rain 15:11:21 Taneb: help 15:11:34 Are you outside? 15:11:38 no 15:11:45 Is your roof leaking? 15:11:47 it's REALLY FUCKING SPOOKY that I can ask Taneb what the weather is and he'll have the same answer is me 15:11:50 it feels telepathic 15:14:54 Taneb: it's too much rain we'll run out ofrain 15:15:03 Then it will stop raining 15:15:15 It was raining when I joined this channel, I believe 15:15:33 I did not observe the weather when I joined this channel 15:16:09 Oh god it is raining 15:16:51 it was raining more a few seconds ago 15:19:41 Taneb: how much did you bumble hundle pay 15:19:47 NOT YET 15:20:06 creis 15:20:08 *ys 15:20:17 creys? 15:20:23 creys 15:20:30 Taneb: how much WILL you pay 15:20:35 $10 ! 15:21:02 Taneb: Ha! That's below the Linux user average! 15:21:04 You're terrible. 15:21:17 But I'm gonna pretend to be a Windows user 15:21:39 If you pay less than $15, fizzie and whoever else it was will look down on you. 15:21:41 Also me. 15:21:44 FORT EH GRATER GOOD 15:21:45 GUILT & SHAMING 15:23:25 BRING IT ON 15:23:29 GUILT 15:23:30 SHAME 15:23:31 GUILT 15:23:32 SHAME 15:23:33 GUILT 15:23:35 SHAME 15:23:37 But first tell me which I should download first 15:23:37 GUILT 15:23:39 SHAME 15:24:08 Bastion or Psychonauts I guess? 15:24:17 I'd watch you play Amnesia. 15:24:32 I've already bought it twice; computer isn't good enough to play it 15:24:41 :P 15:24:53 But the second time I bought it with Steam 15:24:55 elliott, why not play Amensia yourself? 15:25:01 So future me with a better computer can play it 15:25:02 Vorpal: Obvious reasons. 15:25:14 elliott, I would watch you play Amensia if you had a face cam in the video :P 15:25:56 These games are too big. :( 15:26:05 Psychonauts is a whole four gigabytes. 15:26:07 Taneb, anyway Bastion is by far the best game in the bundle. And that is because Psychonauts has some control and interface issues from being ported from consoles 15:26:10 I'll do it late at night in the summer 15:26:15 It'll take, like, MINUTES to download. 15:26:25 elliott, took me half an hour :/ 15:26:34 I HUNGER 15:26:35 It'll probably take me an hour or two, at the least. 15:26:36 brb 15:26:47 elliott, oh? 15:26:53 My internet connection is slow. 15:26:54 thought you had faster internet 15:26:59 elliott, 8 mbit/s here 15:27:05 Same here. 15:27:11 and it might have been a bit more than half an hour actually 15:27:17 one hour perhaps? 15:27:24 I was maxing out my connection though 15:27:44 I'd use the BitTorrent downloads but my connection can't seed. 15:27:49 (Yes, I've tried forcing encryption and different ports.) 15:27:54 (Yes, the port is forwarded.) 15:27:59 (I have no idea what my ISP is doing.) 15:27:59 huh why can't it seed then? 15:28:05 right 15:28:13 Well, my upstream isn't very good. But I'm assuming it's *some* kind of filtering. 15:28:16 elliott, checked the computer firewall as well? 15:28:25 as in ufw under ubuntu or whatever 15:28:27 Vorpal: Other connections in work fine. 15:28:31 hm okay 15:28:32 This is with Arch and OS X. 15:28:33 no idea then 15:28:52 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 15:29:04 elliott, right IP reported to tracker? 15:29:19 I don't see why not. 15:29:21 How plot-driven is LIMBO? 15:29:26 I had some issues with some torrent client (µtorrent iirc?) reporting the internal IP instead 15:29:27 I don't want to play Psychonauts or Bastion right now. 15:29:41 elliott, dude, LIMBO is scary. Not quite Amnesia level 15:29:41 Vorpal: I've tried Transmission and rtorrent. 15:29:42 but still 15:30:00 Vorpal: I'm not scared of anything. Apart from lots of things. :( 15:30:03 ktorrent worked well for me under linux 15:30:20 It looks very pretty, from the trailer. 15:30:22 why not go for sword and sworcery 15:30:26 it looked funky 15:30:35 haven't played it yet. Though I did download it 15:30:47 Is that not plot driven? The pretension of putting "EP" in the title of a game blinded me to the possibility that it might not be. 15:30:53 elliott, I would say all the games in the original bundle had exceptional art styles. 15:31:10 "Superbrothers: Sword & Sworcery EP delivers a completely fresh adventure gaming experience, defying conventions to develop a unique kind of storytelling." 15:31:14 "The plot is unveiled in "sessions," [...]" etc. 15:31:45 elliott, it has a funky main menu with a spnning LP. If you grab it with the cursor the music stops 15:31:50 no idea why 15:31:53 Heh. 15:32:36 elliott, you could play Braid too if you haven't already. Very fun, though quite pretentious. 15:32:48 Back 15:32:52 "As a simple exercise to get me acquainted with Haskell, after idling around on Youtube and stumbling into the American Countdown game show, I wanted to make a solver for the Numbers game." 15:32:54 American?! 15:32:56 AMERICAN?! 15:32:57 HOW DARE YOU 15:33:05 Taneb: We have someone to kill. 15:33:09 elliott, anyway I would strongly recommend playing Bastion. It is utterly awesome. 15:33:15 Whom? 15:33:21 Vorpal: I will play Bastion. Just not right now. 15:33:30 I wonder if my Mac will handle it well enough. 15:33:35 Taneb: The person who asked this question. 15:33:39 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 15:33:41 They called Countdown American. 15:33:44 That's a statement 15:33:44 elliott, check the system requirements? 15:33:47 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 15:33:47 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 15:33:52 THE BASTARDS 15:34:02 I learnt my alphabet from Countdown! 15:34:09 It took me years to get the order 15:34:18 And I /still/ suck at anagrams 15:34:24 Consonant, vowel, consonant, another consonant, vowel... 15:34:24 elliott, anyway super meat boy while it has a story it is just really a cut scene at the start and at the end of each world 15:34:27 But I learnt my alphabet from Countdown! 15:34:28 elliott, you could play that 15:34:42 I was considering SMB. But I think I don't need to be more frustrated than I am. 15:34:51 Okay, looks like I meet the minimum sysreqs for Bastion. 15:35:00 elliott, oh come on it is a fun game! 15:35:12 I recommend using a pad though 15:35:26 Wow, SMB has steep processor requirements for Mac. 15:35:26 (I don't have one, but I tried playing it with a pad at a friends house, much easier!) 15:35:29 "Intel Core 2 Duo 2.66 Ghz" 15:35:55 yeah that is more than my laptop (2.26 GHz) 15:36:01 2.13 here. 15:36:08 It'll probably work fine. I hope. 15:36:09 way less than my desktop (core i7 3.4 GHz) 15:36:18 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 15:36:26 elliott, but yeah if you don't have a pad, SMB will be frustrating 15:36:40 PS3 controllers work on computers, right? 15:36:41 Dual core 2x2.1GHz 15:36:44 Maybe I'll purchase myself one. 15:37:11 elliott, iirc xbox controllers work on computers as well 15:37:11 I've got a wired XBox controller somewhere 15:37:16 no? 15:37:25 Vorpal, you need a bluetooth adaptor for wireless ones 15:37:27 Vorpal: I don't like the look of the Xbox controller much. 15:37:31 Taneb, ah 15:37:41 elliott, why not? 15:37:45 Well, I find the DualShock design close to optimal. 15:37:58 The Xbox 360 one is more curvy, which seems like it'd be harder to grip. 15:38:06 Also the d-pad looks not as good. 15:38:11 But I haven't ever actually used one, so YMMV. 15:38:13 I quite like the feel of the XBox 360 15:38:30 But I've never used a PS3 one and haven't used a PS2 one for YEARS 15:38:34 However I do wish the left analogue stick and d-pad were swapped on the DualShock. 15:39:00 Wii Classic Controller is pretty awful 15:40:16 Oh, I should probably eat. 15:40:30 That is generally a good idea 15:40:32 elliott, hm okay 15:40:47 1/1.1GB of Bastion downloaded 15:40:49 Vorpal: Admittedly, I haven't played on a PS3. 15:40:59 fair enough 15:41:00 Vorpal: But I've played on a PS2. 15:41:05 And the DualShock 3 looks basically the same. 15:41:05 I haven't played much on either 15:41:19 elliott, why not the N64 controller 15:41:25 Well, it's been years. But I liked the controller. 15:41:27 (what a crazy design) 15:41:38 Vorpal: I don't have three hands. 15:41:42 elliott, :D 15:41:56 The GameCube controller is weird too. 15:42:02 (I stole that third-hand joke: 15:42:05 `quote third hand 15:42:05 ) 15:42:08 607) I prefer the N64 controller, it's the only one that has place for my third hand. 15:42:09 (http://www.electricpig.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/gamecube-controller.jpg) 15:42:44 yeah quite strange 15:42:53 the SNES controller was good though 15:43:02 Not really. 15:43:06 The lack of grips isn't ideal. 15:43:07 oh? 15:43:10 hm okay 15:43:14 Handles. Whatever you call them. 15:43:18 right 15:43:19 I admit it has minimalist appeal, though. 15:43:42 elliott, then surely the NES one is even better 15:43:52 also what about that strange one earlier that had a keypads 15:43:54 keypad* 15:43:55 It's uglier :P 15:44:13 I don't remember which system it was on 15:44:15 http://www.nesprojects.com/Images/Original/NES%20TV%20Remote.jpg I... see. 15:45:33 heh 15:45:41 also horrible lag atm due to swap trashing 15:45:42 brb 15:46:23 why do you have swap trashing? how big is you RAM? 15:46:39 2 GB on this laptop. But I'm running an upgrade of an OS in qemu 15:47:00 (windows xp 64-bit) 15:59:10 -!- asiekierka has joined. 16:02:59 -!- asiekierka has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:03:11 I reckon Bastion'd be easier with a mouse 16:03:31 brb, stuff 16:03:32 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 16:05:00 well yes obviously 16:05:44 "hi" 16:06:07 Vorpal: Oh, does Bastion use the mouse? 16:06:18 !jousturl ../report.c 16:06:28 elliott, well it was originally an xbox live arcade game. So it works on controller too 16:06:30 quintopia: no 16:06:37 whats the command 16:06:38 elliott, but it works well with wasd and mouse for aiming 16:06:44 (and shooting) 16:07:01 Guess I'll get a gamepad, then. 16:07:07 elliott, why? 16:07:13 elliott, it works very well with a mouse 16:07:22 probably easier to aim even 16:07:25 I don't have a mouse connected to a working computer. 16:07:27 elliott: get the link to report.c to appear :P 16:07:31 !bfjoust 16:07:32 ​Use: !bfjoust . Scoreboard, programs, and a description of score calculation are at http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/ 16:07:33 ah 16:07:34 `joustreport 16:07:36 http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/report.txt 16:07:45 as far as report.c it's not anywhere in there 16:07:46 elliott, mouse a mouse from a non-working computer to a working one? 16:07:48 it's in the hg repo 16:07:56 Vorpal: mouse a mouse :P 16:08:01 move* 16:08:04 Vorpal: i have nowhere to put this mac that would support a mouse 16:08:06 but yeah funny typo 16:08:10 lap-based mousing sounds awkward 16:08:19 elliott, hm yeah it does 16:08:32 elliott, what sort of input device does it currently have? 16:09:01 Touchpad. 16:09:12 I've... played Minecraft with it. 16:09:22 In fact I did most of the Cube work with it. 16:09:23 But... 16:09:27 It wasn't the most convenient thing. 16:09:40 quintopia: https://bitbucket.org/GregorR 16:09:46 elliott, anyway psychonauts uses the mouse to look as well 16:09:48 oh, he hasn't imported it yet 16:09:50 and wasd to move 16:10:53 elliott: meh. cant hg here. i'll do it later. 16:11:12 quintopia: You realise bitbucket lets you download the files without hg, right? But it's not there, anyway. 16:11:29 elliott, I think bastion would work well with a trackpoint too 16:11:31 if you have one 16:11:40 Vorpal: I don't. 16:11:46 oh well 16:11:58 quintopia: http://codu.org/projects/egobot/hg/index.cgi/file/ffe171208ae9/multibot_cmds/interps/bfjoust/report.c 16:12:00 You're welcome. 16:12:04 iei 16:12:46 elliott, well sword and sworcery seems to be kind of like a point and click, but it has actual fighting mechanics and what not 16:12:49 very strange 16:13:19 Monkey Island has fighting mechanics too :P 16:13:23 They just happen to be trivial. 16:13:27 elliott, I mean sword and shield stuff 16:13:33 they are fairly trivial here too 16:13:45 it is attack and block, but there is an element of timing 16:13:46 huh cant see why my code wouldnt work then. weirds. 16:14:05 elliott, also a chase scene early on. That is unusual 16:14:18 in a point and click I mean 16:14:36 great sound track though 16:14:59 elliott, but yeah play amnesia :P 16:15:46 :( 16:16:18 hm the OST is named "Sword & Sworcery: The Ballad of the Space Babies" according to the cover.jpg included in the zip 16:16:21 what 16:16:26 good name 16:16:37 quite. The track titles are just as strange 16:17:52 The Prettiest Weed, Ode To A Room, Bones McCoy, Little Furnace, Activating Trigons, How We Get Old, And We Got Older are some of the stranger titles 16:18:07 how do we get old???? 16:18:09 i don't know 16:19:15 pretty good music though 16:19:18 rodgort: trigons 16:19:23 what? 16:19:30 Vorpal: thats in the humblemusic bundle 3? 16:19:41 s/rodgort/elliott/ 16:19:45 quintopia, eh? 16:20:03 quintopia, sound track for one of the games in the humble bundle 5 16:20:04 Vorpal: where didst get s&s ost 16:20:05 quintopia: The Humble Bundle comes with soundtracks now. 16:20:08 oh 16:20:09 neat 16:20:13 what is the humble music bundle? 16:20:16 i should download that 16:20:19 a bundle of humble music 16:20:22 I see 16:20:25 makes sense 16:20:39 also bastion has one of the best sound tracks ever 16:20:42 actually afaik there is no actual such thing 16:20:49 there is 16:20:49 but there is an indie game music bundle 3 16:20:53 that thing 16:20:56 the word "humble" does not appear in its name 16:21:02 so it doesnt 16:21:05 same difference 16:21:43 Psychonauts sound track is a bit hectic, works well in the game though. Not quite as nice when you listen to it separately 16:22:38 Hey, one of the iMUSE guys did the Psychonauts soundtrack. 16:22:40 I guess that's not surprising. 16:22:51 Oh, he also did Grim Fandango. 16:22:55 Vorpal: Have you played Grim Fandango? 16:23:04 nope 16:23:21 Vorpal: Well, don't. The controls are the most unbearable thing in the universe. But apart from that it's brilliant. 16:23:29 heh 16:23:40 elliott, is it like that horrible 3D monkey island? 16:23:41 (It's a 3D point-and-click adventure game where you have to use the keyboard to move around and click things.) 16:23:42 Yes. 16:23:44 It's the same interface. 16:23:47 ouch 16:23:59 Same engine. 16:24:02 ouch 16:24:09 anyway I doubt scummvm runs it 16:24:13 Vorpal: OTOH, unlike the Monkey Island 4, which is a terrible game, it's a really good game instead. 16:24:18 hm okay 16:24:22 They have a subproject to run games with the GrimE engine. 16:24:25 I don't know how far along it is. 16:24:31 http://wiki.scummvm.org/index.php/ResidualVM 16:24:35 http://www.residualvm.org/ 16:24:42 "We have reached a rather important milestone for ResidualVM, we are gearing up for our first release, which will support Grim Fandango. To make sure that we don't have any big showstoppers, we need your help." 16:24:52 elliott, you know they released MI1 and MI2 with new graphics as special edition some time ago? 16:24:54 (But probably it's easier to just use Wine or something.) 16:24:56 Vorpal: Yes. 16:25:14 I'm happy they did it, but I didn't buy it, because I'm happy with the originals and in any case probably won't replay them any time soon. 16:25:16 saw a bit of an LP of MI2 SE, looked nice, and had some quite nice voice acting 16:25:25 kind of surprised they spent so much work on it 16:25:29 I never did finish MI2. :( 16:25:35 I finished all three 16:25:42 I got to the final "boss fight" but never managed to defeat LeChuck. 16:25:47 also MI3 is my favourite. 16:25:56 Mostly because I kept freaking out because of the time constraints and then jumping when he appeared. 16:26:16 elliott, I love the pirate song in MI3 16:26:19 I like CMI too, but come on, Gilbert wasn't even involved! 16:26:25 CMI? 16:26:28 oh right 16:26:28 Curse of Monkey Island. 16:26:29 MI3 16:26:29 The third one. 16:26:32 right 16:26:37 Admittedly it's the one I have strongest memories of. 16:26:44 But I think MI2 is probably the slightly better game. 16:26:49 elliott, anyway the pirate song is awesome 16:26:57 I liked that one. 16:26:59 I played MI1 on an Atari ST! 16:27:02 I liked the puzzles of MI1 16:27:04 they wer efun 16:27:08 were fun* 16:27:16 It was... uh... fun, I guess. 16:27:16 a bit too easy though 16:27:24 Did you know the original MI1 release had an even more complicated interface? 16:27:29 Behold: 16:27:36 apart from the chicken with pulley though 16:27:39 http://media.photobucket.com/image/monkey%20island%201/ATMachine/mimisc1/mi1egafac17.png 16:27:48 elliott, can't launch a browse atm due to swap trashing 16:27:54 maybe wget and eog? 16:27:58 Direct link is http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b241/ATMachine/mimisc1/mi1egafac17.png 16:28:01 thanks 16:28:25 The distinction between "Turn on" and "Use" is, like, paramount, man. 16:28:36 waiting for eog to load XD 16:28:47 (By the way, do you mean "thrashing"?) 16:29:02 yeah typo 16:29:29 anyway yeah that is a silly interface 16:29:56 elliott, the radial menu in the special editions and CMI is far better if you need to both push and pull something 16:29:57 CMI's interface is very good. 16:30:00 IMO. 16:30:03 indeed 16:30:15 same sort of interface in the special editions 16:30:25 Although I suspect that it's a little bit more complicated than it needs to be. 16:30:39 also I like the special edition graphics style far better than the CMI graphics style 16:30:41 The "use" vs. "talk to" distinction isn't really ever useful and is only funny to misuse ~three times. 16:31:01 Really? I love CMI's style. 16:31:14 It's very... vivid. 16:31:34 a bit too strong lines in it. 16:31:40 very cartoony 16:32:19 Did you know Crawl has a Monkey Island reference??? 16:32:23 no 16:32:28 what is the reference? 16:32:46 also the battle mechanics in CMI are better than in MI1, due to the rhyming 16:35:08 Vorpal: There's a demonic skull called Murray in hell. 16:35:23 nice 16:53:28 -!- Taneb has joined. 16:53:50 Games are intrinsically monoidal 16:53:51 Hello 16:54:02 hi 16:54:10 Semigroupal, at least 16:54:18 (is that a word?) 16:55:18 Consider 16:55:19 a 16:55:29 Simplification of Snakes and Ladders 16:55:48 Or snakes and ladders, it doesn't actually need simplifying 16:56:15 A player can choose six moves 16:56:26 *from six 16:56:45 That the move is chosen via a die is irrelevant 16:57:49 The die can choose from six moves. 16:58:04 Dice games are actually just that, games for dice. 16:58:12 We're just the equipment they use to move the pieces. 16:58:40 They're also useful tools for explaining my thought 16:58:40 s 16:58:53 This would be a lot more complicated if I chose to explain using Chess 16:59:09 "5, 3" is a section of a game-log 16:59:18 As is "2,5" 16:59:37 (2, 5) <> (3) == 2 <> (5, 3) 16:59:45 == "2, 5, 3" 17:00:47 -!- asiekierka has joined. 17:01:09 Unfortunately, this may lead to invalid gamestates 17:01:48 Phantom_Hoover, that doesn't explain drinking games 17:02:05 Method of suicide for drinks. 17:02:11 ah 17:02:16 Well, more like Russian roulette. 17:02:34 awesome 17:02:55 Vorpal, you may be mixing up drinking with drinks 17:04:10 Why does "foo = foo; foo + foo;" pass through haskells typechecker? 17:04:13 Taneb, no 17:04:22 at least the "foo + foo" part of it. 17:04:42 :t let foo = foo in foo 17:04:42 forall t. t 17:04:53 foo :: t, yes. 17:04:56 that is obvious. 17:05:01 Any t 17:05:03 Any t at all 17:05:05 bat there is no instance Num for t? 17:05:07 *but 17:05:15 Including t's for which Num is defined 17:05:30 :t (+) 17:05:31 :t let foo = (foo :: Int) in foo 17:05:31 forall a. (Num a) => a -> a -> a 17:05:32 Int 17:05:58 All it knows is that foo is the same type as foo 17:06:05 That may be an Int, for all Haskell knows 17:06:23 let foo = foo in foo == _|_ 17:06:24 So t is literally "of any type"? 17:06:32 and haskell may deduce everything out of it? 17:06:36 Yeah 17:07:07 I see. 17:07:40 Principle of explosion 17:08:05 Sometimes I get error messages like Could not deduce Num ~ a 17:08:14 and I have to manually tell ghc that it is Num. 17:08:19 damn I think this USB memory stick is dead. 17:08:30 That's happened to me before 17:08:32 so I was surprised that it can deduce Num ~ t in the case of foo = foo 17:08:40 On the one day I actually did my Latin homework 17:08:41 good thing I didn't have anything important on it, but now I need to find another one to transfer this stuff 17:08:51 mroman: Num is not a type. 17:08:54 Taneb, all that was on it was a bootable linux distro 17:09:00 elliott: It's a type class, yes. 17:09:03 :) 17:09:08 My point is that you will never get such an error message. 17:09:15 Taneb, you learn latin? 17:09:17 why 17:09:18 Yeah 17:09:23 It's better than Spanish 17:09:27 heh 17:09:32 why not go for French? 17:09:36 Anyway, "Could not deduce T ~ a" is a misleading error message; what it really means is "You used an 'a' where I expected a 'T'"; "Type mismatch: T =/= a but you're treating them the same", and so on. 17:09:47 French was compulsory, I enjoyed latin more 17:09:59 :t let foo = foo in replicate foo 'a' 17:10:00 [Char] 17:10:04 I thnk 17:10:05 > let foo = foo in replicate foo 'a' 17:10:07 Taneb, ah I see 17:10:09 mueval-core: Time limit exceeded 17:10:12 *I think 17:10:21 class Foo a where doStuff :: a -> a -> a 17:10:29 Taneb, here English is compulsory. And I took French as the optional one 17:10:32 instance Foo Bar where doStuff q = q + q produces such an error message 17:10:44 Obviously Swedish is compulsory too 17:10:50 Heh 17:10:57 Because ghc has no chance of knowing that Num a => 17:11:06 But yeah, I've escaped English and French 17:11:10 mroman: You will never see the message "Could not deduce Num ~ a", except possibly when using ConstraintKinds. 17:11:16 Taneb, how? You live in UK 17:11:21 you can't escape English 17:11:22 6th form 17:11:23 You may see "Could not deduce Num a" or "Could not deduce Int ~ a", though. 17:11:29 The subject, not the language 17:11:32 Taneb, no clue what that means in Swedish terms 17:11:47 Means I'm old enough to specialize 17:11:51 AND IT IS TIME TO COOK 17:11:52 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 17:17:07 -!- Taneb has joined. 17:17:12 IT IS TIME TO CHAT 17:17:13 Hell 17:17:14 o 17:17:19 hell 17:17:29 hell 17:17:36 o 17:18:54 o 17:19:02 hell 17:22:05 But, alas, nothing is everything 17:22:10 except fix id 17:22:11 :t fix id 17:22:12 forall a. a 17:22:22 :t fix id + fix id 17:22:23 forall a. (Num a) => a 17:22:37 :t fix id >> fix id 17:22:38 forall (m :: * -> *) b. (Monad m) => m b 17:22:39 my fix can;t id im newr in potins 17:22:50 :t fix id <> fix id 17:22:51 Doc 17:23:00 :t fix id `mappend` fix id 17:23:01 forall a. (Monoid a) => a 17:23:07 :t fix id `mplus` fix id 17:23:08 forall (m :: * -> *) a. (MonadPlus m) => m a 17:23:08 (++) is mappend in lambdabot 17:23:09 jfyi 17:23:13 :t (++) 17:23:14 forall m. (Monoid m) => m -> m -> m 17:23:17 !! 17:23:31 :t replicate (fix id) (fix id) 17:23:31 forall a. [a] 17:23:47 :t fix (sum . replicate 1) 17:23:48 forall a. (Num a) => a 17:23:59 > fix (sum . replicate 1) 17:24:03 mueval-core: Time limit exceeded 17:24:14 (trivia, this is either 1 or 0) 17:24:28 (or _|_) 17:24:35 (or infinity) 17:24:49 (no it isn't, it's any number) 17:25:01 > fix (head . replicate 1) 17:25:05 mueval-core: Time limit exceeded 17:25:11 (that's 1) 17:25:43 it is? 17:25:47 :t fix (head . replicate 1) 17:25:55 forall a. a 17:26:15 Is pushing my gf to learn Haskell likely to make her a better programmer? 17:26:15 :t fix 17:26:16 forall a. (a -> a) -> a 17:26:20 She seems to be under that impression 17:26:34 Sgeo_, better at Haskell programming 17:26:37 (After I expressed guilt about not doing much for her after she helped fix up my resume) 17:27:06 Worse at C programming, Java programming, Python programming, Go programming, JavaScript programming, C# programming, C++ programming 17:27:29 Assembly programming, D programming, Lisp programming, Visual Basic programming, PHP programming, ASP programming 17:27:31 etc 17:27:47 Also Category theory 17:27:50 What, by spoiling her? 17:28:39 Haskell's pretty damn addictive 17:28:51 And gives false impressions about category theory 17:32:43 -!- ais523 has joined. 17:34:02 So, now I have no idea what a Functor actually /is/ 17:34:53 hi ais523 whats a flower 17:36:11 elliott: its when you ground up wheat 17:36:12 ais523: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 17:36:15 @messages 17:36:15 elliott said 1d 16h 56m 2s ago: elliott: I can confirm that I have no clue what kuskelar the clatsop man is doing 17:36:19 ais523: thank's 17:36:58 lol, the what? 17:37:07 Vorpal: bfjoust warrior 17:37:12 :t head . replicate 1 17:37:13 forall a. a -> a 17:37:21 elliott, ah 17:45:22 Taneb: Then learn what a functor is. A functor is homomorphism of a category to another category (possibly the same one, in which case it is endofunctor) 17:45:52 You do realise I have a very poor idea of most of the words in that sentence? 17:46:02 I'm going to play with modal logic for a bit 17:46:12 I think possibility is a Monad 17:47:07 Taneb: Well, a monad is endofunctor having two additional operations defined (in Haskell, called return and join) satisfying certain laws. 17:47:16 oh, elliott, you might know what this is called because we don't: what's it called where you have a family of things that sort-of obey the comonad laws, except that instead of it being the same comonad each time, it's a different member of the family? 17:47:32 ais523: I don't quite understan 17:47:32 d 17:47:35 s/\nd/d/ 17:47:55 The Functor class in Haskell is for endofunctors on (->) category 17:48:07 well, you have laws like "if you have an Mx, you can get an MMx", right? 17:48:22 this is "if you have an (M_i)x, you can get an (M_j)(M_k)x" 17:48:41 and so on with the other comonad laws 17:50:46 ais523: ah 17:50:49 perhaps an indexed comonad? 17:50:52 indexed monads look like 17:51:11 (>>=) :: (IMonad m) => m i j a -> (a -> m j k b) -> m j k b 17:51:20 so you need a "transition" 17:51:51 hmm 17:51:52 :t let (>>=) = undefined :: m i j a -> (a -> m j k b) -> m j k b in (>>= id) 17:51:53 forall (m :: * -> * -> * -> *) i j k b. m i j (m j k b) -> m j k b 17:51:56 so you have 17:52:05 join :: m i j (m j k a) -> m j k a 17:52:08 so you'd have 17:52:17 extend :: w j k a -> w i j (m j k a) 17:52:18 returnI :: a -> m x x a; joinI :: m x y (m y z a) -> m x z a; is defining a indexed monad, I think 17:52:19 or possibly 17:52:32 idk 17:52:35 something lik ethat anyway 17:52:41 zzo38: ah, yes 17:52:43 For indexed comonad you would then have extractI :: w x x a -> a; duplicateI :: w x z a -> w x y (w y z a); 17:52:46 ais523: sorry, I got it wrong, zzo38's types are right 17:53:00 oh, right, zzo38's types make more sense 17:53:06 *like that 17:53:11 I need to work out whether that's what I have or not 17:53:26 so instead of pulling a path closer together like indexed monads, an indexed comonad lets you stretch the path out 17:53:26 sort of 17:53:29 from x->z to x->y->z 17:53:38 not sure what that would be useful for, although it sounds interesting 17:53:45 -!- MoALTz has quit (Quit: brb). 17:53:47 Notice that some monads and comonads that use a monoid (such as Writer and Traced), the indexed version of them will use a category. 17:54:23 hmm, interesting 17:54:27 how does that work? say Writer 17:54:55 elliott: Well, it seem obvious to me, but I could explain if wanted. 17:55:09 i'm kind of dumb :) but let me think 17:55:18 return :: a -> Writer cat x x a 17:55:34 join :: Writer cat x y (Writer cat y z a) -> Writer cat x z a 17:55:37 hmm, I think I see 17:55:43 ooh, what I've got isn't /quite/ an indexed monad either, it's a quotient of them over something 17:55:50 ◇(◇x) -> ◇x 17:56:01 err, indexed comonad 17:56:02 x -> ◇x 17:56:10 Hence, possibility is a Monad 17:56:21 Taneb: heh, ours is called ◇ too 17:56:23 Or Monads represent possibility? 17:56:27 Taneb: you need fmap too 17:56:37 (a -> b) -> (◇a -> ◇b) 17:56:41 I think you don't have that, although I forget 17:56:43 elliott, fmap is definable using join and return 17:56:46 Taneb: Yes you do need fmap too. But in what category would they be? 17:56:49 Taneb: No it isn't 17:56:50 Taneb: you are wrong 17:56:57 So I am 17:57:00 there's lots of things like monads or comonads except they don't have fmap 17:57:03 in modal logic type things 17:57:04 it's weird 17:57:07 (a -> b) -> ◇a -> ◇b 17:57:11 elliott: this is definitely a modal logic type thing 17:57:17 both Taneb's and mine :) 17:57:21 right 17:57:31 Hence possibility is a Monad 17:58:29 You also have to say what category, I suppose. 17:59:37 elliott: OK, so what I've got is ◇_(a*b)x -> (◇_a)(◇_b)x 17:59:49 hmm 17:59:52 is a*b product here? 17:59:54 where you should interpret that * as being a generic multiplication-like operator 18:00:02 (it's commutative semiring multiplication) 18:00:06 ah, so not extend :: w (a,b) x -> w a (w b x), then 18:00:28 ais523: what's extract? 18:00:33 extract :: w 1 x -> x? 18:00:47 that would be a special case, I think there's a semiring with tupling as its multiplication (although not a commutative one) 18:00:51 and yes 18:00:57 cute 18:00:59 what is this for? 18:01:17 -!- asiekierka has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:01:34 we found a generic structure behind all the resource-bounding type systems we'd been looking at (apart from SCI, but that just needs a side-condition) 18:02:16 the specific motivating example is realtime type systems that prove that everything executes in the time it's meant to, and that every part of the system is ready to receive input when it actually gets input 18:02:23 which can be synthesized into pipelined circuitry 18:03:25 elliott: anyway, it's clear that this is the quotient of an indexed comonad: instead of w i j x, I have w q x where q*i = j 18:04:04 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: CHILI THYME). 18:04:06 right 18:04:11 hmm 18:04:14 but what's the RHS of extend there? 18:04:19 oh 18:04:20 never mind 18:04:24 actually 18:04:25 yes, do mind 18:04:30 because on the RHS, you need two values again 18:04:36 oh 18:04:37 you can just use 1 18:04:49 or, err, wait, what? 18:05:10 extend :: w x z a -> w x y (w y z a) 18:05:23 ais523: so it's actually w (x*z) a -> w (x*y) (w (y*z) a) 18:05:26 Do you mean duplicate? 18:05:26 for some y 18:05:31 ais523: oh, I guess you just pick y = 1 18:05:33 zzo38: yes, sorry 18:05:35 elliott: yes, exactly 18:05:47 whether or not we pick y=1 has been a raging argument between me and my supervisor over the last several weeks 18:05:55 and we're /still/ not entirely sure which is better, or even which sides we're on any more 18:05:58 ais523: well, actually, there's a big problem 18:06:09 ais523: that type signature means that whoever picks extend gets to *pick y themselves* 18:06:14 so it's not _your_ choice 18:06:18 if I give you w (x*z) a 18:06:28 then it's my right to demand w (x*42) (w (42*z) a) back 18:06:31 then I can pick any y I like, right 18:06:35 that's not a problem in our use of it 18:06:36 no, /I/ can 18:06:38 you don't get to choose 18:06:43 err, right 18:06:52 now, if this works for you, it has the happy consequence that "whether or not we pick y=1" is an incoherent argument 18:06:53 the problem's specifically in the presentation 18:06:55 because you don't get to pick 18:07:03 you must support /all/ y 18:07:04 as in, do we define things for y=1 and then specify rules to transform to other y 18:07:11 or do we define things generically over y in the first place 18:07:16 the latter, former sounds awful 18:07:25 say close to the comonadic defniition 18:07:40 unless there are compelling reasons not to 18:07:44 if it affects how the language is used or something 18:07:48 well, it wasn't intended to be a comonad originally, we just sort-of noticed it was 18:07:48 assuming it's still that thing 18:08:00 ais523: meh, it doesn't matter when you notice as long as you do 18:08:01 this sort of thing happens a lot in category theory 18:08:40 ^echo #echo 18:08:40 #echo #echo 18:08:41 #echo 18:09:00 nortti: you can't get a loop from that because fungot ignores oonbotti 18:09:00 #msg oonbotti foo 18:09:01 ais523: lafeu. do not i know you do, if they meane a fray to be fought between sir hugh the welsh priest and caius the french doctor 18:09:01 Ok 18:09:09 ^echo #readmsg 18:09:10 #readmsg #readmsg 18:09:13 nortti: you're not allowed to use your own bots to botloop 18:09:15 that's disgusting 18:09:16 nortti: but I set one up before the ignore was added 18:09:30 elliott: I am not botlooping 18:09:32 Underload is an /excellent/ language for writing botloops in 18:10:20 #msg oonbotti foo 18:10:21 Ok 18:11:21 #rawirc PRIVMSG oonbotti :#readmsg 18:11:30 elliott: perhaps I should just present both presentations in the paper 18:11:37 the main issue there is proving them equivalent 18:11:46 ais523: don't give in to imperfection! 18:12:02 yay. I managed to make 1 bot botloop 18:12:07 #quit 18:12:07 -!- oonbotti has quit (Quit: oonbotti). 18:12:10 it's kind-of awkward to read with the extra y in everywhere (except we didn't call it y) 18:12:12 nortti: in PM to itself? 18:12:34 ais523: yes 18:12:48 what's the point of a botloop if you can't spam a channel with it? 18:13:12 Because you can. 18:13:12 I don't know 18:13:20 -!- oonbotti has joined. 18:13:24 It doesn't matter whether or not you can spam a channel with it. 18:13:43 #msg nortti foo 18:13:44 Ok 18:13:50 #msg nortti_ foo 18:13:51 Ok 18:14:05 #readmsg 18:14:06 nortti: foo 18:14:18 hmm. it loses all of the messages 18:14:55 https://imgur.com/1e1m2 <-- I took this picture recently with my crappy mobile camera. Still I think that was an amazing car. 18:15:13 #quit 18:15:13 -!- oonbotti has quit (Client Quit). 18:16:10 (also it had both plush dice and a wunderbaum hanging from the rear view mirror!) 18:16:13 -!- oonbotti has joined. 18:16:18 elliott, ^ 18:16:41 hi what 18:16:42 #msg nortti foo 18:16:42 Ok 18:16:48 #msg nortti_ bar 18:16:48 Ok 18:16:51 elliott, look at https://imgur.com/1e1m2 18:16:55 ok 18:17:12 elliott, it claims to be a Volvo, a WW and a Skoda. :) 18:17:15 #readmsg 18:17:15 nortti: foo 18:17:24 WW 18:17:27 -!- nortti has changed nick to nortti_. 18:17:29 #readmsg 18:17:29 nortti: bar 18:17:30 i don't buy any car unless it's a bmw and a horse 18:17:31 -!- nortti_ has changed nick to nortti. 18:17:38 elliott, right 18:19:20 #quit 18:19:20 -!- oonbotti has quit (Client Quit). 18:19:37 -!- oonbotti has joined. 18:33:43 Oh god I think I'm going to end up arguing with a /r/TheLastAirbender mod 18:34:05 I don't want to argue with a mod 18:42:07 elliott, have you ever argued with a mod of a subreddit? 18:42:18 why 18:42:22 are you in that subreddit 18:42:38 i once argued with an r/gameofthrones mod if that helps 18:46:07 Phantom_Hoover, because I like Avatar: The Last Airbender and Legend of Korra? 18:46:28 what is arugment 18:47:25 I say that the unspoilered stuff in http://www.reddit.com/r/TheLastAirbender/comments/ut8sn/oh_nick_always_the_tease/c4ybugf is a spoiler, mod says it's just a theory 18:47:37 spoilers!!! that was what my argument was about 18:47:53 Note that we got (what seems to be) a clear answer to the question of whether the two characters are the same today. 18:50:48 Maybe I should have linked to context? 18:51:16 hi 18:52:24 I replied 18:52:34 -!- aloril has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 18:52:59 http://pastie.org/private/m5gd9ncmfogmd6cd18sjhg 18:53:06 I hope that was a decent reply 18:53:24 ....I think I just violated reddiquette, by sharing that 18:53:24 :/ 18:54:26 hahaha you know what is a funny joke 18:54:33 hi 18:55:03 hi 18:55:06 no 18:56:27 no is the new hi 18:57:49 no 19:05:25 -!- aloril has joined. 19:13:51 -!- oerjan has joined. 19:15:28 -!- monqy has joined. 19:15:34 I agree with Hawking's "Reality is not a quality you can test with litmus paper." <-- except the reality of pH 19:16:22 monqy: hi 19:16:33 elliott: no 19:16:43 hello 19:16:43 monqy: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 19:16:56 good message 19:16:57 -!- oerjan has set topic: baking in hi again | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 19:18:20 ihyqn: om 19:18:44 -!- elliott has set topic: waking | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 19:19:04 elliott: dammit 19:19:30 hello 19:19:41 why must people break the rules even if i never explained them 19:19:58 (of course elliott would break them even more if i did) 19:20:10 please explain the rules so i may break them more effectively 19:20:48 -!- quintopia has set topic: waking | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 19:21:07 "kind of like Bolshevik R2-D2" 19:21:10 no reusing previous words, always go in steps of 1 levenshtein distance 19:21:23 quintopia: what did you change 19:21:31 (ok not changing it at all is permitted) 19:21:49 elliott: the name of the person who posted the last topic 19:21:58 quintopia: plagiarist! 19:22:01 :'( 19:25:21 fungot: hi 19:25:22 nortti: rosin. take you this. julia. no, by this same coxcombe that we haue giuen thee faces to the bent of womans fancy? i am a daughter to his blood 19:25:50 ^style c64 19:25:51 Selected style: c64 (C64 programming material) 19:25:56 fungot: hi 19:25:57 nortti: 0): the optional step keyword is called multicolor text mode. if your output is not a plus sign () specifies that the second 19:26:35 how does fungot create those sentences? 19:26:35 nortti: 20 next n,k,j ( stopping nested loops) is accomplished by jumping directly into the system provides for " auto-start" of using " actual numbers": print t(t); 130 for q= 1 to 8 19:29:03 so fungot prints out something if message contains word fungot? 19:29:04 nortti: new ( performs a logical file number can range from zero to one cor- respondence between the last four sid chip are numerous and varied. only then is it a little more involved, by controlling bits 0, four of the control and command register 660 so it can be found just by pokeing their screen codes needed for the characters 19:33:06 nortti: fizzie pregenerates files with markov chain probabilities for each style, which fungot uses 19:33:06 oerjan: 2) is increased by one nybble of the transformations you can define dozens of sprite movement is called the sprite character. there is a simple poke 792,193 will accomplish this. the 19:35:58 * Sgeo_ is still pissed http://www.reddit.com/r/TheLastAirbender/comments/ut8sn/oh_nick_always_the_tease/c4ybugf?context=1 19:36:03 hi 19:36:04 (Note: Spoilers) 19:37:44 Do you prefer my rules for ties in Pokemon Card, or the standard rules, or some other variant which I have not heard of? 19:39:43 i prefer a variant which _no_ one has heard of, not even me 19:39:57 -!- HackEgo has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:40:07 -!- HackEgo has joined. 19:40:15 `welcome HackEgo 19:40:18 HackEgo: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 19:42:28 could someone explain what is so bad about busybox vi? 19:52:40 -!- Taneb has joined. 19:52:42 Hmm 19:53:10 Hello 19:54:54 hi 19:55:30 I think that, rather than Possibility being a monad, Possibility is what monads translate to under the curry-howard isomorphism 19:56:08 Taneb: It still has to be an endofunctor, though 19:56:13 Where m a means "It is possible that an a exists" 19:56:31 I do not think that is true at all. 19:56:36 At least, I don't think CH really works like that. 19:56:42 I'm almost certainly wrong 19:56:49 That loses the distinction between two separate monads, if they both translate to Possibility... 19:58:46 Is (Time -> Amplitude) a reasonable representation of (not yet stored to file) audio data in Haskell? 19:59:36 Sure. 19:59:39 It's inefficient to modify, though. 20:01:45 At least, I don't think CH really works like that. <-- actually that rings a bell... 20:02:21 oerjan: Probability being a monad seems reasonable; the other way around doesn't really... 20:02:35 each monad could correspond to a modal logic, in other words 20:02:50 well I just sent some files over bluetooth to my laptop. Apparently the transfer was successful. But it didn't tell me where it placed the sodding file... 20:03:11 oh in ~/Public? Why did it create that directory and why did it place it there? 20:04:19 One thing is the monad of probabilities like (WriterT (Product x) []) but that may not be what you meant 20:04:23 oerjan: that sounds reasonable 20:04:24 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curry%E2%80%93Howard_correspondence#Correspondence_between_natural_deduction_and_lambda_calculus mentions it in the list at the end 20:04:34 oerjan: I didn't interpret what Taneb said as that,t hough 20:04:43 Vorpal: probably XDG 20:04:56 elliott, consider that I never know quite what I'm on about 20:05:02 I'm like itidus-lite 20:05:03 elliott: well naturally, although every modal logic with the right axioms corresponds to _some_ notion of possibility, i should think 20:05:12 oerjan: right 20:05:25 elliott, heh 20:05:35 elliott, yeah anyway I did a find on ~ to find it 20:05:41 and that takes ages 20:06:02 (some 80 GB or so, with tens of thousands of small files under ~/src) 20:06:43 Necessity may be a comonoad 20:06:46 *comonad 20:06:49 actually I will run find ~ | wc -l out of interest 20:07:02 Vorpal: how often do you klean your ~/src ? 20:07:12 *clean 20:07:17 nortti, clean? 20:07:27 nortti, why would I clean away my own code 20:07:32 and projects I work on 20:07:37 If it x is necessary, it is necessary that x is necessary 20:07:43 (duplicate) 20:07:48 okay there are some other stuff there, but only things I need actually 20:08:02 like a cross compiler toolchain build environment for h8300-coff 20:08:04 If x is necessary, x must be 20:08:06 (extract) 20:08:14 And then you should need fmap 20:08:28 Yeah, that's the hard one 20:08:32 Vorpal: ah. I thought you used ~/src for compiling programs from source and placed your own projects to something like ~/projects 20:08:47 $ find ~ | wc -l 20:08:47 2899 20:09:13 nortti, nah, stuff I compile from source go there too, but get removed (apart from a file that contains the ./configure flags used, to help with upgrades) 20:09:14 If the existence of x forces the existence of y, does the necessity of x force the necessity of y? 20:09:25 nortti: 20:09:26 $ find ~ | wc -l 20:09:27 697776 20:09:32 wow 20:09:49 nortti, this is on my laptop. My desktop is booted to windows atm, so I can't check ther 20:09:51 there* 20:10:37 $ find src | wc -l 20:10:37 528744 20:10:41 that is a sizable part of it 20:10:59 $ find src/ | wc -l 20:10:59 302 20:11:13 find projects/ | wc -l 20:11:13 1076 20:11:29 I think I have a two linux kernels there too. One is for this laptop the other is for cross compiling to an old dell desktop that takes far too long to do it by itself 20:11:43 (it is a P3 @ 993 MHz, 512 MB RAM) 20:11:48 (way too slow) 20:11:57 and it is still faster than mine :P 20:12:00 yeah right 20:12:07 do you compile your own kernel though? 20:12:08 993 Mhz. 20:12:16 mroman, yep 20:12:17 That's like 3 times as fast as 333 Mhz Pentium 20:12:21 Vorpal: sometimes 20:12:33 mroman, almost. I have no idea why they didn't go for 1 GHz 20:12:39 nortti, also that dell desktop came with windows 98 20:12:43 that is how old it is 20:12:54 mine has win98SE 20:13:01 well might have been SE 20:13:02 *had 20:13:04 I don't remember 20:13:14 point is that it is bloody outdated 20:13:23 and it has winXPpro license taped to it 20:13:27 nortti, anyway that dell has a 20 GB HDD 20:13:30 so not very useful 20:14:02 wow. that is smaller than in my computer 20:14:04 also the HDD started making strange noises recently. 20:14:10 Oh, come on, I've got (<*>) but not fmap 20:14:12 And I can't find any other IDE disks 20:14:38 Taneb: So no pure? 20:14:43 If you have pure and (<*>) you have fmap. 20:14:43 No 20:14:57 Not without the naturalistic fallacy 20:15:17 Taneb, what is that fallacy? 20:15:24 What is true is good 20:15:49 If p is the case, p ought to be permitted 20:15:54 heh? 20:17:09 For some values of necessity, that fallacy is not a fallacy 20:17:17 But consider the necessity of Law. 20:17:25 Murder happens, so should murder be legal? 20:18:05 hi 20:18:47 We're into philosophy and law here, two topics I am even less well versed in than I am mathematics and computer science 20:18:57 So, I'll think of a different example 20:19:01 No I won't. 20:21:53 Taneb: there are scores of modal logics depending on which axioms you accept, though 20:22:11 I'm trying to remain as general and sweeping as possible 20:22:36 that just means you take one with few axioms 20:23:05 Yeah, I'm avoiding p -> □p 20:23:36 p -> ◇p is okay, though 20:24:08 Screw it. 20:24:12 I'm making my own logic 20:24:49 AXIOMS: 20:25:16 Wait, p -> □p is an axiom anyway 20:25:27 SO NECESSITY IS A COMONAD, POSSIBILITY IS A MONAD 20:25:30 ^^^ official 20:25:43 (in some modal logics) 20:26:35 disturbingly, intuitionistic modal logic is a red link in wp 20:27:15 Heck, in any normal modal logic, Necessity is an applicative 20:28:04 you don't want to use a classical logic as basis unless you have continuations 20:28:25 Pierce's law, right? 20:28:29 *-a 20:28:32 yes 20:35:00 hmm, with Pierce's law as call/cc, you get LEM saying it's either true or false (doesn't matter which) and if you ever prove it wrong and prove a contradiction, that ends up calling the continuation and backtracking, right? 20:35:07 or something 20:35:42 something like that 20:37:04 LEM's x | x, right? 20:37:08 yes 20:38:02 callCC (\c -> Right (\x -> c (Left x))) 20:38:58 :t callCC (\c -> return $ Right (\x -> c (Left x))) 20:38:59 forall b (m :: * -> *) a. (MonadCont m) => m (Either a (a -> m b)) 20:39:17 aha 20:40:30 > let lem = callCC (\c -> return $ Right (\x -> c (Left x))) in runCont (do { x <- lem; case x of Left a -> return a; Right f -> f (42 :: Int)) id 20:40:31 : parse error on input `)' 20:40:33 ugh 20:40:35 > let lem = callCC (\c -> return $ Right (\x -> c (Left x))) in runCont (do { x <- lem; case x of Left a -> return a; Right f -> f (42 :: Int) }) id 20:40:36 42 20:40:39 neat 20:40:41 i see how it works 20:41:04 you go "aha, you think it's uninhabited, but I have an inhabitant *right here*!" and it steals your example and goes back in time and uses it as a proof of inhabitation 20:41:05 cute 20:42:12 I have done something like this: class Classical x where { lem :: Either x (Not x); }; 20:42:30 zzo38: yes i remember 20:43:59 -!- nortti_ has joined. 20:45:29 elliott: btw you don't need the {} if you have () around the do itself. 20:45:38 really? neat 20:45:45 was more for my own benefit, though :P 20:47:01 it's basically only used to find out where the do block ends, and if there's a delimiter just after that cannot be matched inside the do, then you don't need the {} 20:47:12 right 21:02:35 -!- Patashu has joined. 21:02:41 -!- elliott has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:09:08 -!- ais523 has quit. 21:15:00 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: AAAAAAAAAAAAH). 21:21:17 Codeeval supports Clojure 21:21:20 I am a happy person now 21:21:25 I just need to learn Clojure 21:23:20 isn't Clojure some kind of lisp ran inside JVM? 21:24:13 -!- quintopia has set topic: raking | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 21:25:51 no, it can't be ran, only run 21:26:13 * oerjan hides under rock 21:27:46 wouldn't that rock crush you? 21:29:38 grbltn 21:29:48 rest peacefully 21:30:45 why thank you, i need some peaceful rest 21:30:56 me too 21:30:58 * quintopia nap 21:31:39 grbltn? 21:33:28 on a side note: Doesn't haskell break RT anyway? 21:33:33 gnt, brklfnd mgrvgrvladje 21:33:53 unsafePerformIO 21:34:04 aren't potatoes some kind of tuber? 21:34:06 mroman: guess why it has "unsafe" 21:34:31 mroman: you just need to ignore unsafePerformIO whenever it is convenient to your argument to do so 21:35:21 ditto any of a dozen other features 21:42:29 -!- ion has set topic: faking | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 21:42:32 -!- derdon has joined. 21:57:45 -!- george97 has joined. 21:58:44 -!- george97 has left. 22:03:00 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 22:20:16 -!- MDude has joined. 22:27:23 which one should I try to port to my own processor architecture: MINIX 1.5, MINIX 2 or 2.11BSD 22:35:38 OK I am playing Human Revolution. 22:36:06 I am crouching on a sofa on which two enemies are also sitting. 22:36:12 Neither has noticed me. 22:36:21 I’ve bought the DE series, but haven’t got around to trying it yet. 22:36:41 Phantom_Hoover: :3 22:37:14 my favorite thing about original Deus Ex is that you could heal a shotgun wound to the chest by eating 50 bags of potato chips 22:37:18 One of them looked up from the handheld game he was playing, glanced at me for a second, then looked back down. 22:37:49 kmc, ah, see, Jensen doesn't faff around with that; he just stuffs his face with Mars Bars so he can punch people. 22:38:55 WTF, no ghost bonus. 22:39:02 I'm... pretty sure none of them saw me. 22:43:11 -!- james-ubc has joined. 22:45:22 ion, DX is good, but it's probably best to start with HR because DX is very... 90s. 22:45:50 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 22:52:10 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 23:01:35 -!- elliott has joined. 23:01:39 phantom_hoover: I don’t really mind old games being… old. :-) I’ve been playing Fallout 1 recently. 23:01:55 kmc: Just like in real life! 23:02:39 Yeah, but FPSes are more reflexive than turn-based RPGs, so the quirks in the interface are more offputting. 23:02:57 It doesn't use r for reload, for instance, unlike basically every other FPS today. 23:03:44 -!- nortti_ has quit (Quit: leaving). 23:06:16 -!- derdon has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:07:01 -!- oerjan has joined. 23:13:00 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 23:23:19 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:23:54 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 23:29:46 hm should i play Fallout n, n < 3? 23:29:57 i sort of got one of them working in Wine once 23:32:55 If n=base of natural logatithms then yes try 23:39:01 AngryJoe Plays Steel Battalion Kinect http://youtu.be/VxKRBUzElTU?t=5m45s 23:39:35 kmc: I’ve liked it. The UI is rather horrible and the 640×480 resolution is annoying, but the game is good despite that. 23:41:30 it's all turn-based right? 23:48:12 The combat is, yeah. 23:48:46 Hmm. I should try one of the resolution-enhancing patches again now that i’ve switched GPUs. 23:49:04 The last time anything beyond the default 640×480 was unplayably slow. 23:51:05 do those come with high res textures and such? 23:51:30 Nope, you just get to see more than a tiny window to the map. 23:51:56 "Since when was Sherlock Holmes a goddamn emo druggie obsessed with death?" -- a person 23:52:11 this is so funny if you've read the sherlock holmes stories 23:52:52 kmc: The “FIXT” patch for Fallout is recommended.