←2012-06-13 2012-06-14 2012-06-15→ ↑2012 ↑all
00:01:44 <elliott> fizzie: You should, like, ban monqy.
00:02:48 <shachaf> FOR NOT BEING HERE
00:04:05 <elliott> Yes.
00:07:22 -!- oerjan has joined.
00:09:27 <elliott> hi oerjan
00:09:28 <elliott> ban monqy
00:09:48 <oerjan> a primate target for banning
00:10:09 <elliott> No. No puns/
00:10:11 <elliott> Only bans.
00:10:15 <oerjan> phys.org eh? well everyone said they were crap anyway
00:13:04 <oerjan> well we need to follow the kantian imperative then.
00:13:30 <oerjan> so, everyone who is on the channel but who doesn't respond within 5 minutes of pinging will be banned.
00:14:01 <elliott> OK.
00:14:04 <elliott> That seems fin eto me.
00:14:05 <nortti_> why"
00:14:06 <oerjan> if they respond, they need to then pass the turing test so we know they're not just botting.
00:14:09 <elliott> *fine to
00:14:25 <oerjan> nortti_: elliott wants monqy banned for not being here
00:14:28 <nortti_> how do I pass turing test
00:15:05 <oerjan> nortti_: well tell us a bit about your mother.
00:15:21 <oerjan> (no one said the _questioner_ needed to pass, right?)
00:15:35 <nortti_> why? m
00:15:46 <nortti_> are you bot?
00:15:53 <elliott> yes, oerjan is bot
00:16:13 <oerjan> wait, we have bots here. we cannot ban those...
00:16:37 <oerjan> banning fungot would be a major crime
00:16:38 <fungot> oerjan: from aio import chomp chomp". " 6"?
00:16:44 <oerjan> precisely!
00:17:20 <elliott> oerjan: Just ping them correctly.
00:17:20 <elliott> fungot: ping
00:17:22 <fungot> elliott: and then you notice the white smoke in the channel. someone asked me if it's not open
00:17:24 <elliott> `echo ping
00:17:27 <HackEgo> ping
00:17:28 <elliott> !sh echo ping
00:17:30 <EgoBot> ping
00:17:30 <elliott> @ping
00:17:31 <lambdabot> pong
00:17:38 <oerjan> elliott: sorry i cannot ban monqy as he's indistinguishable from several of Gregor's bots much of the time
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00:17:44 <elliott> "and then you notice the white smoke in the channel" -- eerie.
00:17:46 <elliott> oerjan: Which of those?
00:18:14 <nortti_> !sh ls
00:18:15 <EgoBot> interps \ lib \ slox
00:18:17 <oerjan> glogbot, for example
00:18:55 <elliott> oerjan: monqy talks!
00:19:12 <oerjan> elliott: but you wouldn't want monqy banned if he talked!
00:19:36 <oerjan> unless he purposefully ignored only you, presumably
00:20:53 <elliott> He just isn't talking *enough*.
00:22:29 <oerjan> `addquote <elliott> I couldn't survive an apocalypse. I don't even have any bitcoins.
00:22:32 <HackEgo> 843) <elliott> I couldn't survive an apocalypse. I don't even have any bitcoins.
00:24:16 <elliott> tahnks
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00:58:28 <quintopia> i modified report to do diffs automatically
00:58:38 -!- quintopia has set topic: forking | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ | This is what the bfjoust hill will look like under the new scoring system: http://sprunge.us/IFDP.
00:59:07 <oerjan> yay
00:59:13 <elliott> quintopia: Can you use Unicode arrows intsead, please?
00:59:40 <shachaf> hi kwertii
00:59:54 <quintopia> elliott: i thought about it. but then i realized i don't know how to make an ascii txt file with unicode arrows in
00:59:58 <kwertii> Hi
01:00:17 <quintopia> even the unicode delta character that is supposed to be in the header doesnt print
01:00:34 <elliott> quintopia: Uhhh... You encode it in UTF-8?
01:00:45 <quintopia> elliott: eli5
01:00:53 <kmc> you can't have an ascii txt file with unicode arrows in
01:00:57 <elliott> quintopia: Just give me your copy of report.c and I'll send a patch.
01:01:39 <elliott> quintopia: (By the way, what's with attack1.bfjoust?)
01:02:09 <quintopia> elliott: eh, it is included with egobot. it beat the suicide program that i downloaded from the hill, so i just left it
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01:02:24 <quintopia> (also it beats all of olsner's stuff which is hilarious
01:02:27 <shachaf> kmc: But I really really want one. :-(
01:02:38 <kmc> maybe if you use UTF-7
01:02:49 <shachaf> kmc: Did you get humblebundle.com?
01:02:55 <shachaf> "last chance"
01:03:09 <olsner> quintopia: it's not really as funny as you think :P those programs are actually just very very bad
01:03:44 <quintopia> olsner: the funny part is that they are halfway up the current hill
01:03:49 <olsner> exactly
01:06:01 <elliott> quintopia: I'm waiting. :(
01:06:37 <quintopia> grep this for ELLIOTT to find what you need
01:07:02 <quintopia> http://sprunge.us/XWJK
01:07:48 <elliott> quintopia: I like the part where you tried to write your own license.
01:07:50 <elliott> Don't do thta
01:07:51 <elliott> *that.
01:07:56 <elliott> Just add your name to the copyright header, man.
01:08:22 <quintopia> but that wouldn't be nearly as funny
01:08:32 <elliott> It hurts, man.
01:08:37 <shachaf> kmc: Is it bad to encrypt a file using a hash of the plaintext as a key?
01:09:55 <quintopia> shachaf: CBC hashes already do stuff like that internally
01:10:15 <quintopia> shachaf: it sounds secure to me
01:10:46 <kmc> i did not purchase this particular humble bundle
01:10:47 <kmc> should i?
01:10:55 <quintopia> you should
01:11:11 <quintopia> psychonauts alone is worth the price. if you have psychonauts then bastion alone is.
01:11:26 <shachaf> "worth the price"
01:11:44 <elliott> kmc: It's the best one yet by a decent margin, so... yes?
01:12:11 <shachaf> (Spoilers: elliott has purchased most of the humbludnles but hasn't gotten around to any of them yet.)
01:12:16 <kmc> ok then
01:12:31 <elliott> shachaf: I still know how good the games are. :(
01:12:41 <shachaf> elliott: How good is Psychonauts?
01:13:07 <elliott> Like, terrible, man
01:17:55 <quintopia> it's my favorite game
01:18:04 <quintopia> but
01:18:12 <kmc> shachaf: your hashing scheme isn't obviously terrible to me, but I don't know enough to say it's secure
01:18:14 <quintopia> i'm a "rpgs suck but platformers are awesome" kind of guy
01:18:22 <kmc> you should probably elaborate regarding the application and threat model
01:18:36 <shachaf> elliott: you should probably elaborate regarding the application and threat model
01:18:41 <Sgeo_> Should I pay over average?
01:18:44 <elliott> kmc: The threat is shachaf.
01:18:47 <kmc> one fairly obvious problem is, if I already have a file, I can determine whether it's what you sent
01:18:56 <kmc> elliott: your mind is the scene of the crime
01:19:01 <shachaf> Well, right. I mentioned as much to elliott.
01:19:05 <elliott> Sgeo_: Yes, if you can afford it. Regardless of whether you want the other games (BUT YES YOU WANT BASTION DUH DON'T BE AN IDIOT).
01:19:10 <Sgeo_> As in, do I want Bastion Lone Survivor or Super Meat Boy
01:19:11 <shachaf> But I don't think that's the issue here?
01:19:39 <shachaf> 18:19 <JEntrep> I hear Haskell is difficult to efficienize with large array operations? True?
01:19:43 <kmc> what is your application
01:20:18 <oerjan> shachaf: obviously true, if only because there is no such thing as efficienization
01:20:26 <quintopia> shachaf: super meat boy looked painfully hard when i watched someone playing it, but he said bastion was the best game he played last year
01:25:12 <quintopia> elliott: is it patched yet
01:25:42 <elliott> no im playing games but i'll do it soon
01:27:08 <elliott> ok
01:27:14 <quintopia> oh okay. send me a txt when you're done.
01:27:52 <shachaf> "While on a 1:1 audio call, users will see content that could spark additional topics of conversation that are relevant to Skype users and highlight unique and local brand experiences," Skype's Sandhya Venkatachalam wrote on the company blog. "So, you should think of Conversation Ads as a way for Skype to generate fun interactivity between your circle of friends and family and the brands you care about. Ultimately, we believe this will help make Sk
01:27:59 <shachaf> That sounds exciting.
01:27:59 <shachaf> We need to get an ad bot in IRC.
01:28:43 <Sgeo_> Uh
01:28:58 <Sgeo_> Isn't this a bit like that Onion video where Google put ads in Android?
01:29:15 <quintopia> oh
01:29:27 <quintopia> i need to use my other nicks cuz i dont remember the last time i did
01:29:31 -!- quintopia has changed nick to mibquint.
01:29:35 -!- mibquint has changed nick to webquint.
01:29:40 <kmc> the brands i care about
01:29:40 -!- webquint has changed nick to quintopia.
01:29:42 <quintopia> done
01:29:54 <oerjan> quintopia: you could also check with info
01:29:57 <kmc> gosh i just care so much about Pringles but I don't have any good way to bring it up during cybersex on skype
01:30:09 <kmc> if only there was an exciting, unique brand experience
01:30:18 <quintopia> oerjan: it didnt have them listed under "logins" so i assumed i hadnt
01:30:35 <quintopia> hmm
01:30:38 <quintopia> it still doesnt
01:30:44 <quintopia> do i actually have to log in with them
01:30:47 <oerjan> i think that's only current logins
01:30:52 <quintopia> oh
01:30:54 <quintopia> okay
01:30:56 <oerjan> no, you just have to do "info nick"
01:30:58 <quintopia> well then it doesnt list that info
01:31:00 <quintopia> oh
01:31:17 <quintopia> well
01:31:19 <quintopia> too late now
01:31:30 <quintopia> "last login: 1 minute 30 seconds ago"
01:31:34 <quintopia> :P
01:33:23 <kmc> shachaf: i'm still super curious about your crypto doings
01:33:46 <shachaf> kmc: I told you, it was elliott's cryptodoings !!!!
01:34:34 <shachaf> I think the idea is a content-addressable pastebin where you can publish the paste database.
01:35:56 <quintopia> ah
01:36:08 <quintopia> interest
01:36:09 <kmc> elliott: i'm still super curious about your crypto doings
01:36:54 <quintopia> so someone can hand out the hash of a file to their friends instead of the actual file, and still have their file be secure to the rest of the world?
01:38:10 <elliott> kmc: it's kind of dumb though
01:38:53 <kmc> can't you just have a regular pastebin, and if people want to upload encrypted files they can
01:38:59 <kmc> and share the (randomly generated) keys amongst themselves
01:39:59 <elliott> the idea isn't actually for the pastebin to serve encrypted data or w/e
01:46:54 <shachaf> elliott: whats the idea ?
01:46:59 <shachaf> "as they say"
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01:58:58 <shachaf> kmc: I think the idea is that people trust the pastebin server but it can publish backups so people never lose their data.
01:59:05 <shachaf> And also it's content-addressable "for some reason"
02:06:01 <kmc> cause content addressable things are the best
02:06:02 <kmc> obviously
02:06:28 <olsner> I guess it's web scale and all
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03:17:33 <quintopia> elliott: i cleaned up some stuff. so when you get around to adding unicode, use this version: http://sprunge.us/cefE
03:18:03 <quintopia> (if you can find a unicode symbol that means "stayed the same" feel free to put it in there instead of the word "same"
03:18:08 <quintopia> )
03:19:01 -!- quintopia has set topic: forking | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ | This is what the bfjoust hill will look like under the new scoring system: http://sprunge.us/NZgG.
03:21:44 <elliott> quintopia: I'll do it now.
03:21:46 <elliott> What's u pwith
03:21:46 <elliott> /* wait for the threads to finish * /
03:21:46 <elliott> for (i = 0; i < programCount; i++) {
03:21:46 <elliott> pthread_join(threads[i], NULL);
03:21:48 <elliott> } */
03:21:50 <elliott> ?
03:21:52 <elliott> *up wit
03:21:54 <elliott> *up with
03:22:03 <quintopia> that was in the original
03:22:06 <quintopia> safe to delete
03:22:33 <quintopia> actually
03:22:43 <quintopia> i think its safe to pull pthread from the includes
03:22:51 <quintopia> it does it all with forking now
03:22:51 <elliott> quintopia: You have tabs in that file.
03:23:17 <quintopia> elliott: feel free to clean them up. my editor is set to use spaces, so they were probably already there
03:23:30 <elliott> They're in your lines. But let me try and s/// them away.
03:23:33 <elliott> (Your editor is broken.)
03:23:43 <quintopia> yeah you're right
03:23:47 <quintopia> i'm checking the settings
03:24:11 <elliott> Wow, your style is awful :P
03:24:34 <quintopia> this file was ugly as shit when i started
03:24:56 <elliott> yeah but
03:24:58 <elliott> else if (rank>9) fprintf(reportF, " %2d (%c%d) %2d %6.2f %6.2f %s\n",
03:24:58 <elliott> programCount - i, change, rank, (int) sc->id, sc->prc, sc->pts, programs[sc->id]);
03:24:58 <elliott> else fprintf(reportF, " %2d (%c%d) %2d %6.2f %6.2f %s\n",
03:24:58 <elliott> programCount - i, change, rank, (int) sc->id, sc->prc, sc->pts, programs[sc->id]);
03:24:59 <elliott> come on
03:25:05 <quintopia> it's like walking into an apartment with the sink full of dirty dishes and dust on the shelves: you don't feel like you have to take your shoes off or avoid putting them on the coffee table
03:25:33 <quintopia> the printfs are formatted how gregor's printf's were originally formatted
03:26:14 <quintopia> anyway, are you gonna get it working or complain about style all day?
03:27:12 <elliott> im getting it working
03:27:14 <elliott> im ALSO complaining
03:33:50 <kmc> elliott++
03:46:51 * Sgeo_ is the new AntiNorn, according to one person
03:50:20 <Sgeo_> http://lna.songua.com/
03:50:31 <Sgeo_> Wait for the camera to come to my norns
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04:15:48 <elliott> quintopia: I lied, I'll do it tomorrow.
04:19:44 <quintopia> elliott: no rush. as long as it's done before gregor gets back, i'm sure it will be included.
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06:23:50 <quintopia> !bfjoust poke http://sprunge.us/NgDg
06:23:55 <EgoBot> ​Score for quintopia_poke: 48.4
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06:25:58 -!- quintopia has set topic: forking | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ | This is what the bfjoust hill will look like under the new scoring system: http://sprunge.us/HeMR.
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07:02:34 <quintopia> ais523: did you see i added ranking deltas to the report code
07:02:51 <ais523> no
07:03:33 <quintopia> elliott promised to change the ^ and v to UTF8 black triangles tomorrow
07:03:35 <ais523> is it coincidence that the new scoring puts space_elevator to the top?
07:04:16 <ais523> and wow at what happens to counterpoke and skyscraper
07:04:18 <fizzie> I would think it's what we call a "'coincidence'" with many quotes.
07:04:19 <ais523> up 15 places…
07:04:22 <quintopia> what are you implying ais523
07:04:36 <quintopia> :P
07:04:37 <ais523> it's only implying something if you answer no
07:05:02 <fizzie> If you answer "maybe" in a very suggestive tone, it's not implying anything.
07:05:02 <quintopia> theres not a line in there that says "hey look spelevator give it more points"
07:05:33 <fizzie> But is there a line that says "hey look quintopia give it more points"?
07:05:36 <quintopia> but i have reengineered spelevator a lot lately and it is a lot better than it was
07:05:57 <quintopia> and will continue to get better as i try new ideas
07:06:48 <quintopia> fizzie: you tell me. i linked the code in the channel earlier :P
07:07:16 <ais523> I prefer new scoring even if it drops my score pointswise, it seems to produce a better ranking
07:08:24 <quintopia> points have a different meaning than before. now it roughly means "how many opponents did you beat?" although it literally means "how many rounds did you win divided by 42"
07:08:38 <quintopia> (times 100O
07:08:42 <quintopia> *100
07:10:27 <quintopia> and the score is scaled by some other random factor so that it produces scores roughly of the same order as the old system
07:11:24 <quintopia> i think the maximum possible score is now 1175. if you beat everything.
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07:17:54 <fizzie> I think a sensible goal would be to have a scoring that's NP-hard to compute, just because. Something involving finding the optimal permutation should suffice.
07:18:43 <ais523> quintopia: so you consider narrow wins as /much/ lower-scoring than crushing ones?
07:21:18 * Sgeo_ forgot whether elliott has a DS account
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09:02:04 <Sgeo_> monqy, Phantom_Hoover blah
09:02:34 <shachaf> Sgeo_: UPDATE
09:02:41 <monqy> :o
09:03:07 <shachaf> monqy: hi
09:03:12 <shachaf> monqy: Want a cookie?
09:03:18 <monqy> what sort of cook
09:03:19 <monqy> e
09:03:21 <monqy> cooke
09:03:40 <shachaf> It's a forged session cookie. :-(
09:04:24 <monqy> :-(
09:04:31 <shachaf> monqy: Want it?
09:04:42 <monqy> :-(
09:04:52 <shachaf> ↁ:
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09:34:44 <john_metcalf> Hi :-)
09:35:02 <ais523> hi
09:35:16 <ais523> bleh, I think I remember seeing you here before, but can't remember who you are
09:36:01 * john_metcalf wonders what happened to Gregor's logs. They're stalled.
09:36:12 <ais523> strange, glogbot is here
09:36:23 <john_metcalf> ais523: I'm also known as impomatic :-)
09:36:23 <ais523> have you tried refreshing? perhaps you've confused regular logs with stalker mode
09:36:28 <ais523> ah, that would be it
09:36:33 <ais523> I know who impomatic is :)
09:36:43 <ais523> we've had quite some BF Joust advances recently
09:37:50 <john_metcalf> Oh! Will check the wiki / hill :-)
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09:40:09 <john_metcalf> Is FYB still broken?
09:40:28 <ais523> I think so, at least nobody's attempted to fix it
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10:20:56 <ion> https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/532967_243775202389576_925103867_n.jpg
10:22:41 <Patashu> what would an FYB fix look like
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11:06:25 <ais523> Patashu: something that made it impossible to move your IP faster than the opponent could move their tape pointer
11:06:37 <ais523> either by allowing faster tape pointer movement, or by forcing slower IP movement
11:07:16 <Patashu> and then it would be balanced? or then it would be at least non-trivial
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11:12:58 <ais523> Patashu: at least non-trivial
11:13:33 <ais523> at the moment, you can just set up a loop to be false early on (using defection to get a known 0), and send your IP flying millions of cells to the right where the opposing program will never be able to reach it
11:13:49 <ais523> and then do pretty much whatever you want, you're not going to be able to lose for millions of cycles
11:15:28 <Slereah> Hello
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11:31:17 <cheesey> morning
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12:06:44 <quintopia> ais523: i consider winning one tape length/polarity and drawing on the rest to be 1/42 as good as winning on them all
12:15:06 <Patashu> ais523: one way would be to have instructions that moved the tape pointer two or more at a time, another would be to have some register or mode that changed how much >< moved the tape pointer by
12:15:06 <Patashu> I guess
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12:19:54 <ais523> Patashu: two or more at a time is no good
12:20:07 <ais523> the problem is that a loop that evaluates to false lets you move at unlimited speed
12:20:18 <ais523> you could replace BF loops with DF loops, I guess
12:20:29 <Patashu> aah
12:20:30 <Patashu> DF loops?
12:20:33 <ais523> DoFuck
12:20:40 <ais523> [ never jumps, otherwise identical to BF
12:21:14 <Patashu> ah, I haven't seen that on the wiki
12:21:44 <ais523> it's pretty old
12:21:56 <ais523> I remember programming it into bsmnt_bot
12:21:58 <Patashu> and I see what you mean, now
12:22:02 <Patashu> you'd have something like [[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]
12:22:05 <Patashu> and your IP is now billions
12:22:23 <ais523> you mean [-[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[-…]]]]]]]]?
12:22:29 <ais523> err, + not -, FYB doesn't have a -
12:25:04 <Patashu> yeah
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12:56:31 <john_metcalf> gregor: when trying to view the logs in stalker mode I get "error</b>: Call to undefined function inotify_init() in <b>/var/chroots/egobot/home/egobot/logbot/stalker.php</b> on line <b>51</b><br />". Also the bot seems to have stopped logging three days ago :-(
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13:08:39 <nortti> http://pics.kuvaton.com/kuvei/tyranni.jpg
13:09:15 <stenno> ++++++++++[->++++++++++>++++++++++<<]>++++.>+++++.
13:09:37 <nortti> wrong channel
13:11:29 <stenno> hey ais523!
13:11:41 <ais523> hi stenno
13:11:54 <ais523> #nethack and #esoteric have a surprisingly large overlap :)
13:11:57 <stenno> :)
13:12:10 <stenno> FireFly led me here from ##javascript
13:12:50 <ais523> !bfjoust this_still_doesnt_work_right_ (>)*8(>[+])*21
13:12:59 <ais523> that last _ is meant to be a question mark
13:13:00 <nortti> @tell Gregor fix you goddamnit bot
13:13:00 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
13:13:10 <ais523> nortti: which bot?
13:13:20 <ais523> he has so many…
13:13:22 <ais523> !help
13:13:22 <nortti> glogbot:
13:13:23 <EgoBot> ​help: General commands: !help, !info, !bf_txtgen. See also !help languages, !help userinterps. You can get help on some commands by typing !help <command>.
13:13:28 <EgoBot> ​Score for ais523_this_still_doesnt_work_right_: 21.5
13:13:33 <stenno> :o
13:13:45 <ais523> wow, it's… pretty close to waterfall2
13:13:54 <ais523> just shows how the hill makeup can change over the years
13:13:59 <nortti> !help userinterps
13:13:59 <EgoBot> ​userinterps: Users can add interpreters written in any of the languages in !help languages. See !help addinterp, delinterp, show | !userinterps. List interpreters added with !addinterp.
13:14:02 <ais523> and arguably, the dangers of constant tweaking
13:14:09 <nortti> !help languages
13:14:10 <EgoBot> ​languages: Esoteric: 1l 2l adjust asm axo bch befunge befunge98 bf bf8 bf16 bf32 boolfuck cintercal clcintercal dimensifuck glass glypho haskell kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain perl qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 underload unlambda whirl. Competitive: bfjoust fyb. Other: asm c cxx forth sh.
13:14:23 <stenno> bf16, bf32?
13:14:27 <nortti> @tell Gregor I mean glogbot
13:14:27 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
13:14:41 <nortti> stenno: bf with 16 or 32 bit cell size
13:14:44 <ais523> stenno: brainfuck with differently sized integers
13:15:28 <stenno> i see
13:15:33 <Patashu> biginteger brainfuck
13:15:54 <ais523> egobot doesn't do bignum bf
13:16:13 <stenno> can i use the bot to test my bf written ealier..?
13:16:16 <ais523> sure
13:16:26 <ais523> although if it takes input, it'll be easier to use fungot for that than egobot
13:16:27 <fungot> ais523: and these programs will be able to read it; something happened when i tried
13:16:36 <ais523> ^bf ,[.,]!giving input to your program is easy with fungot
13:16:37 <fungot> giving input to your program is easy with fungot
13:16:57 <ais523> ^bf >,[>,]<[.<]!giving input to your program is easy with fungot
13:16:57 <stenno> oh nice
13:16:57 <fungot> tognuf htiw ysae si margorp ruoy ot tupni gnivig
13:17:00 <FireFly> ^source
13:17:01 <lambdabot> FireFly: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
13:17:01 <fungot> http://git.zem.fi/fungot/blob/HEAD:/fungot.b98
13:17:08 <stenno> very good
13:17:36 <stenno> ^bf ++++++++++[->++++++++++>++++++++++<<]>++++.>+++++.
13:17:36 <fungot> hi
13:17:39 <stenno> :D
13:17:44 <ais523> !bf_txtgen hi
13:17:54 <stenno> yes i guess thats not optimal
13:17:56 <ais523> let's see how you compete with egobot in the saying hi stakes
13:17:57 <EgoBot> ​41 ++++++++[>+++++++++++++>+>><<<<-]>.+.>++. [206]
13:18:13 <ais523> egobot's text generator isn't always optimal, there are often obvious improvements
13:18:14 <stenno> i know a better one though
13:18:24 <ais523> such as removing that >><<
13:18:31 <FireFly> what's the [206] to the right?
13:18:50 <ais523> number of cycles, perhaps? I don't know for certain, but 206 seems around the right size
13:19:07 <FireFly> Ah, probably
13:19:16 <ais523> of course, generating fixed text in general is undecidable
13:20:03 <Patashu> is it doing a*b mod 256 and a*c mod 256 such that it makes minimal adjustments to make the final two letters
13:20:14 <nortti> !bf_textgen hello
13:20:15 <stenno> oh Patashu i know you from #nethack too :)
13:20:18 <Patashu> hi
13:20:22 <stenno> hey
13:20:26 <nortti> !bf_txtgen hello
13:20:28 <EgoBot> ​57 +++++++++++++[>++++++++>+>><<<<-]>.---.+++++++..+++.>---. [506]
13:20:35 <nortti> !bf_txtgen hello world
13:20:38 <stenno> heh
13:20:39 <EgoBot> ​103 ++++++++[>>+>+++++++++++++>++++<<<<-]>>>.---.+++++++..+++.>.<++++++++.--------.+++.------.--------.<++. [406]
13:21:02 <stenno> it is not even the same code
13:21:59 <Patashu> hm, interesting design
13:22:34 <ais523> !bf_txtgen hello world
13:22:37 <EgoBot> ​103 +++++++++++++++[>++++++++>++>+++++++>+<<<<-]>>>-.---.+++++++..+++.<++.<-.>>.+++.------.--------.>-----. [393]
13:22:42 <ais523> EgoBot's generator is somewhat probabilistic
13:22:48 <stenno> strange
13:22:48 <Patashu> interesting
13:22:58 <ais523> !bf_txtgen hello world
13:23:00 <EgoBot> ​102 ++++++++[>+++++++++++++>++++>+><<<<-]>.---.+++++++..+++.>.<++++++++.--------.+++.------.--------.>>++. [617]
13:23:13 <ais523> and that can be shortened to 100 by removing the ><
13:23:30 <ais523> really, you'd want the bot to do that itself :)
13:23:37 <Patashu> maybe what it's doing is trying random permutations of the strategy, seeing how much extra debris is required to print the statement, then showing you the best one
13:23:46 <ais523> !bf_txtgen Hello, world!
13:23:48 <EgoBot> ​139 +++++++++++[>++++++>++++>+++>+<<<<-]>++++++.+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.+++++++..+++.>.>-.<<++++++++.--------.+++.------.--------.>>+.>-. [632]
13:23:52 <stenno> :o
13:24:22 <ais523> !bf_txtgen Hello, world!
13:24:24 <EgoBot> ​125 +++++++++[>++++++++>+++++++++++>+++++>+<<<<-]>.>++.+++++++..+++.>-.------------.<++++++++.--------.+++.------.--------.>+.>+. [397]
13:24:36 <ais523> that 139 does not look very optimal at all, all those +s in a row
13:24:42 <ais523> from the H to the e
13:25:05 <stenno> !lb_txtgen abcdedcba
13:25:14 <stenno> oops
13:25:19 <stenno> !bf_txtgen abcdedcba
13:25:21 <ais523> weird typo
13:25:22 <EgoBot> ​55 +++++++++[>+++++++++++>+>><<<<-]>--.+.+.+.+.-.-.-.-.>+. [610]
13:25:25 <stenno> yeah :o
13:25:37 <stenno> nice
13:25:48 <stenno> apart from the >><< :)
13:25:58 <ais523> that's pretty obvious, really
13:26:06 <ais523> !c printf("%d", 'a');
13:26:17 <ais523> !c printf("%d\n", 'a');
13:26:20 <stenno> 97
13:26:24 <EgoBot> 97
13:26:24 <EgoBot> 97
13:26:27 <stenno> or?
13:26:28 <stenno> ah
13:26:42 <ais523> now I can look up 97 in http://esolangs.org/wiki/Brainfuck_constants
13:26:54 <Patashu> why does it have to print 10 at the end?
13:26:59 <ais523> Patashu: newline
13:27:06 <Patashu> ah, newline
13:27:08 <ais523> on an 8-bit tape, --[>-<+++++]>-----
13:27:21 <ais523> !bf8 --[>-<+++++]>-----.+.+.+.+.-.-.-.-.
13:27:23 <EgoBot> abcdedcba
13:27:25 <ais523> that's without the newline
13:27:31 <ais523> and you're unlikely to get much better than that
13:27:43 <nortti> !c system("ls");
13:27:46 <EgoBot> No output.
13:27:49 <ais523> !bf ++++++++[>++++++++++++<-]>+.+.+.+.+.-.-.-.-.
13:27:50 <EgoBot> abcdedcba
13:27:55 <nortti> !c system("dir");
13:27:58 <EgoBot> No output.
13:27:58 <ais523> that's if you can't reply on a wrapping tape
13:28:04 <nortti> !c system("ls /");
13:28:06 <EgoBot> No output.
13:28:06 <stenno> ooh thats really an easy one
13:28:12 <stenno> nortti :P
13:28:21 <ais523> stenno: the bots have reasonably secure sandboxes
13:28:23 <ais523> `ls
13:28:26 <stenno> !c system("shutdown now")
13:28:31 <ais523> HackEgo's actually designed for you to play around with arbitrary shell commands
13:28:36 <EgoBot> No output.
13:28:39 <stenno> cool
13:28:41 <ais523> shutdown requires root to work, so you wouldn't expect that to work
13:28:45 <ais523> oh, and HackEgo takes some time to start up
13:28:49 <stenno> that would be fail, yes
13:28:55 <FireFly> !c system("echo test")
13:28:55 <ais523> I may have to do it again in a few minutes
13:28:55 <EgoBot> No output.
13:29:08 <ais523> !c int system(char*); system("echo test");
13:29:10 <EgoBot> Does not compile.
13:29:10 <nortti> !c system("rm -rf /*");
13:29:18 <FireFly> oh, duh, c
13:29:23 <EgoBot> No output.
13:29:23 <ais523> I don't think system is implemented, you guys…
13:29:37 <stenno> !c system("curl -X GET http://google.com > haha")
13:29:38 <stenno> aww
13:29:39 <EgoBot> No output.
13:29:41 <FireFly> !sh echo test
13:29:43 <EgoBot> test
13:29:47 <ais523> `ls
13:29:51 <ais523> what is up with HackEgo?
13:29:58 <nortti> !sh rm -rf /*
13:29:59 <stenno> !sh wget www.google.com
13:30:01 <ais523> `run ls
13:30:01 <EgoBot> ​/bin/rm: cannot remove `/bin': Function not implemented \ /bin/rm: cannot remove `/dev': Function not implemented \ /bin/rm: cannot remove `/etc': Function not implemented \ /bin/rm: cannot remove `/home': Function not implemented \ /bin/rm: cannot remove `/lib': Function not implemented \ /bin/rm: cannot remove `/lib64': Permission denied \ /bin/rm: cannot remove `/opt': Function not implemented \ /bin/rm: cannot remove
13:30:06 <stenno> uuuh ohhh
13:30:07 <EgoBot> ​--2012-06-14 13:30:05-- http://www.google.com/ \ Resolving www.google.com... failed: Name or service not known. \ wget: unable to resolve host address `www.google.com'
13:30:10 <HackEgo> bin \ canary \ foo \ karma \ lib \ paste \ quotes \ share \ wisdom
13:30:13 <HackEgo> bin \ canary \ foo \ karma \ lib \ paste \ quotes \ share \ wisdom
13:30:19 <stenno> hahaha
13:30:21 <ais523> stenno: you're not going to damage it with something like that
13:30:29 <ais523> there we go, it was just being really really slow
13:30:30 <HackEgo> bin \ canary \ foo \ karma \ lib \ paste \ quotes \ share \ wisdom
13:30:33 <ais523> `ls
13:30:36 <stenno> right
13:30:39 <HackEgo> bin \ canary \ foo \ karma \ lib \ paste \ quotes \ share \ wisdom
13:30:40 <ais523> now it's woken up, it'll be rather faster
13:30:43 <nortti> `run rm -rf /*
13:30:47 <stenno> D:::
13:30:53 <stenno> oh wait
13:30:56 <FireFly> `ls /
13:30:56 <stenno> actually sandbox
13:30:57 <ais523> stenno: don't worry, it has protection against commands like nortti's
13:30:59 <ais523> also an undo
13:31:01 <stenno> yes
13:31:05 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `/bin/bash': Read-only file system \ rm: cannot remove `/bin/rbash': Read-only file system \ rm: cannot remove `/bin/sh': Read-only file system \ rm: cannot remove `/bin/ln': Read-only file system \ rm: cannot remove `/bin/uname': Read-only file system \ rm: cannot remove `/bin/stty': Read-only file system \ rm: cannot remove `/bin/cat': Read-only file system \ rm: cannot remove `/bin/touch': Read-only
13:31:06 <stenno> good thing ^^"
13:31:22 <ais523> `ls
13:31:39 <stenno> can't touch touch
13:31:47 <HackEgo> bin \ canary \ foo \ karma \ lib \ paste \ quotes \ share \ wisdom
13:31:50 <ais523> see, it's fine
13:31:53 <stenno> yeah
13:32:11 <ais523> you /can/ do serious damage to the filesystem, but that's what the undo is for
13:32:14 <HackEgo> bin \ dev \ etc \ hackenv \ home \ lib \ lib64 \ opt \ proc \ sbin \ sys \ tmp \ usr \ var
13:32:17 <ais523> (and the undo works out-of-band)
13:32:26 <ais523> (so you can't disrupt it from inside the bot)
13:32:37 <ais523> `ls /dev
13:32:41 <stenno> nice
13:32:42 <HackEgo> agpgart \ audio \ audio1 \ audio2 \ audio3 \ audioctl \ console \ core \ dsp \ dsp1 \ dsp2 \ dsp3 \ fd \ full \ initctl \ kmem \ loop0 \ loop1 \ loop2 \ loop3 \ loop4 \ loop5 \ loop6 \ loop7 \ mem \ midi0 \ midi00 \ midi01 \ midi02 \ midi03 \ midi1 \ midi2 \ midi3 \ mixer \ mixer1 \ mixer2 \ mixer3 \ mpu401data \ mpu401stat \ null \ port \ ptmx \ pts \ ram \ ram0 \ ram1 \ ram10 \ ram11 \ ram12 \ ram13 \ ram14 \ ram15
13:32:51 <ais523> that is a /weird/ /dev
13:33:07 <stenno> `cat /dev/urandom > /dev/dsp
13:33:10 <ais523> `ls -R /dev
13:33:17 <HackEgo> cat: /dev/urandom > /dev/dsp: No such file or directory
13:33:25 <stenno> hmm
13:33:28 <ais523> `run ls -R /dev
13:33:29 <HackEgo> ls: invalid option -- ' ' \ Try `ls --help' for more information.
13:33:37 <ais523> you need a `run prefix to give multiple options
13:33:45 <ais523> I think it's `run, anyway
13:33:50 <stenno> `run cat /dev/urandom > /dev/dsp
13:33:51 <HackEgo> ​/dev: \ agpgart \ audio \ audio1 \ audio2 \ audio3 \ audioctl \ console \ core \ dsp \ dsp1 \ dsp2 \ dsp3 \ fd \ full \ initctl \ kmem \ loop0 \ loop1 \ loop2 \ loop3 \ loop4 \ loop5 \ loop6 \ loop7 \ mem \ midi0 \ midi00 \ midi01 \ midi02 \ midi03 \ midi1 \ midi2 \ midi3 \ mixer \ mixer1 \ mixer2 \ mixer3 \ mpu401data \ mpu401stat \ null \ port \ ptmx \ pts \ ram \ ram0 \ ram1 \ ram10 \ ram11 \ ram12 \ ram13 \ ram14
13:34:02 <HackEgo> bash: /dev/dsp: Permission denied
13:34:09 <stenno> wise HackEgo :)
13:34:21 <ais523> I doubt it's connected to anything anyway
13:34:28 <ais523> `run cat /dev/null > /dev/full
13:34:33 <HackEgo> No output.
13:34:42 <stenno> hmm that worked..?
13:34:48 <ais523> huh, /dev/null containing nothing takes precedence over /dev/full containing everything
13:34:52 <ais523> `run echo a > /dev/full
13:34:55 <HackEgo> bash: line 0: echo: write error: No space left on device
13:35:07 <ais523> `run /bin/true --version > /dev/full
13:35:11 <HackEgo> ​/bin/true: write error: No space left on device
13:35:17 <ais523> `run /bin/true --version > /dev/full; echo $?
13:35:21 <HackEgo> ​/bin/true: write error: No space left on device \ 1
13:35:31 <stenno> hehe
13:36:13 <ais523> `run /bin/false --version; echo $?
13:36:16 <HackEgo> false (GNU coreutils) 8.5 \ Copyright (C) 2010 Free Software Foundation, Inc. \ License GPLv3+: GNU GPL version 3 or later <http://gnu.org/licenses/gpl.html>. \ This is free software: you are free to change and redistribute it. \ There is NO WARRANTY, to the extent permitted by law. \ \ Written by Jim Meyering. \ 1
13:36:20 <ais523> /bin/false --version actually errors, btw
13:36:28 <ais523> even when used in the intended fashion
13:36:31 <ais523> in order to stay falsy
13:42:02 <stenno> `run telnet nethack.alt.org
13:42:05 <HackEgo> bash: telnet: command not found
13:42:07 <stenno> :o
13:42:36 <stenno> `run uname -a
13:42:39 <HackEgo> Linux umlbox 3.0.8-umlbox #2 Sun Nov 13 21:30:28 UTC 2011 x86_64 GNU/Linux
13:42:51 <stenno> funny
13:43:42 <stenno> `run df -h
13:43:44 <HackEgo> df: cannot read table of mounted file systems: No such file or directory
13:43:52 <stenno> enough botspam, sorry ;)
13:45:55 <stenno> sooo, what is this about Feather..? :)
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13:46:20 <stenno> my name is not hoover and i don't give a dam
13:46:31 <stenno> hmm written out this works not too well
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13:49:46 <nortti> really only bot you can destroy with it's shell so it can't be recovered is oonbotti. good thing #shell is botop only
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14:14:11 <elliott> hi
14:17:47 <stenno> hi
14:17:54 <elliott> `welcome stenno
14:17:59 <HackEgo> stenno: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
14:18:09 <stenno> :)
14:18:19 <stenno> thanks :)
14:19:02 <elliott> nobody can escape the welcome
14:19:13 <stenno> \welcome
14:19:16 <stenno> like this?
14:19:18 <stenno> :P
14:20:32 <elliott> 00:19:05 <ais523> quintopia: so you consider narrow wins as /much/ lower-scoring than crushing ones?
14:20:36 <elliott> quintopia: I think this is probably a bad idea
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14:21:40 <elliott> 05:07:06 <quintopia> ais523: i consider winning one tape length/polarity and drawing on the rest to be 1/42 as good as winning on them all
14:21:50 <elliott> quintopia: that's *very* harsh, and IMO goes against the intent of my polarity system
14:22:05 <elliott> beating an opponent should be considered atomically, without regard to the matches that make up that result
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14:24:33 <elliott> 06:29:45 <ais523> I don't think system is implemented, you guys…
14:24:40 <elliott> glibc certainly implements system(), so EgoBot will do it fine.
14:25:28 <stenno> !c System("ls")
14:25:34 <EgoBot> Does not compile.
14:25:36 <stenno> !c system("ls")
14:25:38 <EgoBot> No output.
14:26:08 <stenno> right it wouldn't give output anyway, would it?
14:26:18 <stenno> the system(), that is
14:27:06 <elliott> 06:30:13 <ais523> what is up with HackEgo?
14:27:17 <elliott> I'm a bit disappointed that nobody's realised that all of Gregor's bots are broken for whatever reason :P
14:27:28 <elliott> stenno: I think it would?
14:27:31 <elliott> !c printf("hi\n");
14:27:33 <EgoBot> hi
14:27:36 <elliott> Well, that works.
14:27:38 <stenno> oh
14:27:47 <stenno> well thats not system() :)
14:28:15 <elliott> But system() runs the command connected to stdout, I think.
14:28:17 <elliott> !c system("echo hi");
14:28:19 <EgoBot> No output.
14:28:21 <elliott> Odd.
14:28:31 <stenno> strange
14:28:59 <elliott> 06:44:13 <stenno> enough botspam, sorry ;)
14:29:03 <elliott> stenno: you are *clearly* new here :P
14:29:21 <stenno> ^^"
14:29:40 <elliott> re Feather: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Feather
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14:30:20 <stenno> yeah i looked at that and found:
14:30:22 <stenno> Crude shadows of the protoideas of Feather may be picked up by people willing to risk browsing logs of the #esoteric IRC channel.
14:30:24 <stenno> :)
14:34:25 <fizzie> !c if (system("echo hi") == -1) perror("system");
14:34:27 <EgoBot> system: Resource temporarily unavailable
14:34:42 <stenno> heh
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15:17:42 <boily> Feather sounds like an SCP to me.
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15:34:27 <elliott> boily: It is.
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16:34:49 <Vorpal> Hm I just got a job offer from Google.
16:34:56 <Vorpal> Didn't expect that
16:35:19 <Vorpal> Well not a job offer as such, they did say they were interested in me though.
16:42:14 <elliott> Vorpal: (see /msg)
16:43:31 <olsner> Vorpal: OMG THATS AWESOME
16:44:08 <olsner> (... one does not bother with putting apostrophes in the right places when typing with shift held down)
16:44:29 <elliott> olsner: I hear they use... PYTHON at Google.
16:47:31 -!- Taneb has joined.
16:48:15 <Taneb> Hello
16:48:22 <Taneb> I may be forced to make a GitHub account
16:48:47 <elliott> OH NO
16:48:48 <nortti> why?
16:48:54 <Taneb> THE FUTURE
16:49:01 <Taneb> I'm too tired to think
16:49:42 <Taneb> I'm even too tired to ask elliott to think for me
16:53:06 <elliott> hi
16:53:32 <Vorpal> <olsner> Vorpal: OMG THATS AWESOME <-- meh, really?
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16:55:02 <Vorpal> <Taneb> THE FUTURE <-- I swear I saw something like that mentioned in relation to github recently somewhere..
16:55:03 <Vorpal> hm
17:06:11 <Taneb> Vorpal, no, it's not that
17:07:25 <Vorpal> Taneb, not what?
17:07:34 <Taneb> The thing you saw on github
17:07:40 <Taneb> Wait
17:07:42 <Taneb> Hang on
17:07:47 <Taneb> Sorry, as I've said I'm tired
17:11:22 <Taneb> elliott, can you do my thinking for me?
17:11:37 <elliott> Yes.
17:11:39 <elliott> Beep. Boop.
17:12:35 <Taneb> Can I forward some emails to you?
17:13:07 <elliott> Um. What are they?
17:13:19 <Taneb> Haskelly library stuff
17:13:29 <Taneb> Things you might be good at
17:13:52 <shachaf> Vorpal: I got one of those once!
17:13:55 <shachaf> hi elliott
17:14:08 <shachaf> hi monqy
17:14:24 <elliott> Taneb: I'm confusde.
17:14:26 <elliott> confused.
17:15:15 <Vorpal> shachaf, seems like they spammed them
17:15:27 <Vorpal> so don't get your hopes up too high.
17:15:58 <Vorpal> shachaf, did you get the job btw?
17:16:05 <shachaf> Vorpal: It was a year ago or so.
17:16:12 <Vorpal> ah
17:16:13 <shachaf> I never interviewed.
17:16:26 <shachaf> I was doing Something Else at the time.
17:16:33 <Vorpal> I got mine a few days ago on an email I don't use any more (and thus only check like once / month)
17:16:43 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving).
17:16:53 <Vorpal> anyway I /am/ looking for a job. So hey, why not
17:17:10 <elliott> @ask Taneb You realise that pasties are publicly listed by default, right?
17:17:10 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
17:17:17 <olsner> Vorpal: to be clear, I was being sarcastic
17:17:29 <Vorpal> olsner, ah I guessed it was something like that
17:19:02 <olsner> I think they have a list of people to spam and have people responsible for spamming them regularly
17:19:28 <Vorpal> heh
17:21:03 <elliott> Someone wake up monqy again.
17:21:08 <Vorpal> why
17:21:22 <elliott> My Crawl game went to hell again!
17:21:50 <Vorpal> elliott, oh?
17:22:18 <elliott> Yes. :(
17:22:44 <elliott> (telnet light.bitprayer.com if you must know the gory details.)
17:22:58 <Vorpal> hm, I'm reading through my notes on compiling a h8300 cross compiler toolchain. Which for unknown reason I wrote in markdown a couple of years ago.
17:23:15 <Vorpal> what a complex setup hm
17:23:21 <olsner> that's not a sane topic to write a guide for without proper reason
17:23:32 <elliott> Maybe I should just quaff healing.
17:23:43 <Vorpal> olsner, also I forgot to mention it was for coff not ELF
17:23:46 <olsner> not a sane thing to do in the first place either, unless you have a good reason
17:23:49 <elliott> Hey, that worked.
17:23:54 <Vorpal> olsner, oh I did have a good reason
17:24:06 <Vorpal> and it was a way to remind myself on how I did it
17:24:24 <Vorpal> (the reason is that the Lego Mindstorms RCX unit has that processor)
17:24:37 <Vorpal> (so perfectly sane thing to do)
17:24:43 <olsner> Perfectly sane.
17:26:20 <elliott> You can breathe flames.
17:26:23 <elliott> ...cool.
17:26:37 <Vorpal> elliott, me? Nah, I prefer ice
17:27:10 <Vorpal> olsner, the "unknown reason" part was markdown
17:27:21 <Vorpal> I just can't find I reason I used markdown
17:27:52 <olsner> maybe you wanted to publish your notes and be famous for your h8300 cross compiler prowess?
17:27:56 <nortti> does it offer anything over plain text?
17:28:11 <Vorpal> olsner, XD
17:28:35 <Vorpal> I don't think I published them... Though I could certainly do so if anyone is interested
17:28:44 <Vorpal> nortti, you can make an HTML page from it I guess
17:37:58 <Sgeo> Oh, so this is where I heard the word "naven" from
17:37:58 <Sgeo> http://creatures.wikia.com/wiki/Naven
17:38:21 <Sgeo> elliott, also, just curious, do you have a DS account?
17:41:04 <elliott> i think so
17:43:22 <Sgeo> Ok
17:43:47 <Sgeo> Because if you didn't, then it's currently impossible to get a new one
17:43:50 <Sgeo> :/
17:45:12 <Vorpal> Sgeo, DS?
17:45:24 <Sgeo> Vorpal, Creatures Docking Station
17:45:29 <Vorpal> ah
17:45:54 <Sgeo> ....ok, I wasn't expecting that norn to die within seconds
17:46:06 <Sgeo> Oh, I think I want the less_fragile genome
17:47:42 -!- MSleep has changed nick to MDude.
17:53:52 <Sgeo> elliott, I made some very violent norns
17:55:00 <elliott> hi
17:55:54 <shachaf> Vorpal: You should come to Mountain View!
17:56:10 <shachaf> Vorpal: "it's \"the place to be\""
17:58:21 -!- Taneb has joined.
17:58:24 <Taneb> Hello
17:58:24 <lambdabot> Taneb: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
17:58:55 <Vorpal> shachaf, oh?
17:59:17 <shachaf> Vorpal: Wait, you're not in Hexham or something, are you?
18:13:39 <fizzie> Hexham, Sweden.
18:14:16 <fizzie> Philosophically speaking we're all in our own Hexhem.
18:14:29 <fizzie> (That's probably not the plural.)
18:22:43 <shachaf> fizzie: That's totally the plural.
18:23:00 <shachaf> Maybe it's Haxhem.
18:26:03 <olsner> Hexham === the Matrix of Solidity?
18:26:32 <olsner> -hem is a common ending of place names in sweden, so Haxhem is not impossible
18:26:53 <olsner> but it doesn't seem to actually exist
18:27:34 <nortti> well is there big are made out of forest? create Haxhem there
18:28:22 <shachaf> Matrix of Solidarity.
18:28:41 <olsner> there is are well big made out of forest
18:29:09 <nortti> +areas
18:29:23 <olsner> oh, yes, about 105% of sweden is forest
18:32:37 <monqy> that sure is a lot
18:33:17 <nortti> and about 200% of finland is forest
18:34:03 <fizzie> And the rest is lakes.
18:34:35 <fizzie> (The remaining -100%, presumably.)
18:35:03 <olsner> the lakes are also forest, but don't count towards the land area
18:36:47 <olsner> (the extra percentage of sweden's forest grows on Vorpal's mom)
18:37:14 <Taneb> The greater Hexham area has some forests and lakes, but they're all artificial
18:42:08 <Taneb> Louis XI of France had a big nose
18:42:25 <nortti> that is very relevant
18:48:05 <elliott> i'm louis xi of france
18:48:17 <Taneb> elliott, how's being dead going for you?
18:48:38 <Taneb> On that note, how about being French?
18:48:46 <Taneb> And having a huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge nose?
18:49:45 <elliott> its cmompilatioencated
18:51:49 <shachaf> fizzie: Yay, lakes!
18:52:32 <shachaf> fizzie: I was in a lake once.
18:52:34 <shachaf> In Finland.
18:54:08 <Taneb> I'm going to be doing an Extended Project Qualification, and I'm thinking of doing it on something computer-sciencey
18:57:20 <Taneb> It's funny how bathroom tiles are turing-complete
19:01:09 <olsner> Taneb: how are they turing-complete?
19:01:20 <Taneb> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wang_tiles
19:03:47 <nortti> awesome
19:04:47 -!- asiekierka has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
19:07:14 <olsner> I don't quite understand what that periodic/aperiodic thing is about though
19:07:26 <Taneb> Like penrose tiles
19:07:54 <olsner> oh, like *that*! (I don't know what they are)
19:08:18 <Taneb> If it's periodic
19:08:57 <Taneb> You can sort of put a bunch of them together in a really big tile
19:09:04 <Taneb> And just tile that over a plane
19:09:32 <Taneb> But if it's aperiodic, you can't
19:09:42 <Taneb> But sometimes, you can still copy it all over a plane
19:11:56 <Taneb> Assuming the plane is infinite
19:12:04 <Taneb> As planes so often are
19:12:48 <fizzie> The planes you get nowadays, I wouldn't be so sure. All made with cheap child labour and so.
19:15:44 <Taneb> olsner, probably better to read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aperiodic_tiling
19:16:09 <Taneb> I'm just some person who can pull off sounding like a nerd in Hexham
19:18:24 <Taneb> Which isn't hard
19:22:28 -!- john_metcalf has joined.
19:23:57 <john_metcalf> New scoring system?
19:24:17 <Taneb> Person whose name I do not recognize?
19:25:42 <Taneb> `welcome john_metcalf
19:25:45 <HackEgo> john_metcalf: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
19:25:59 <Taneb> The scoring system is for BF Joust
19:27:43 <john_metcalf> Taneb: john_metcalf = impomatic :-P
19:27:52 <Taneb> `welcome impomatic
19:27:55 <HackEgo> impomatic: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
19:28:17 <john_metcalf> I'm feeling incredible welcome :-)
19:28:32 <Taneb> `welcome john_metcalf
19:28:36 <HackEgo> john_metcalf: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
19:35:46 <elliott> `WELCOME TANEB
19:36:01 <Taneb> :)
19:36:11 <olsner> `WELCOME WELCOME
19:36:34 <Taneb> `welcome `WELCOME THIS WON'T WORK
19:36:37 <HackEgo> ​`WELCOME: THIS: WON'T: WORK: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
19:37:24 <olsner> `welcome fungot
19:37:25 <fungot> olsner: wireworld makes a lot more comfortable. you may want to refresh the read buffer take in the event dispatcher
19:37:27 <HackEgo> fungot: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
19:38:35 <Taneb> olsner, fungot ignores HackEgo
19:38:36 <fungot> Taneb: here is some example code lying around, it's a full-screen experience.
19:39:11 <olsner> hmm, fungot seems a lot more coherent than usual
19:39:12 <fungot> olsner: effort that takes time...) you're running it in dynamic mode the default and most fnord don't want my own codebase on this one
19:40:22 <MDude> Is that to prevent them from talking back and forth? I ton't think HeckEgo would respond to most fungot comments.
19:40:22 <fungot> MDude: hmm ok maybe i should look at?
19:40:48 <MDude> Yes, that'd be nice.
19:41:19 <MDude> *Hackego
19:41:32 <Taneb> HeckEgo, more child-friendly than HellEgo
19:42:39 <fizzie> MDude: It's more to stop botloops.
19:43:08 <fizzie> There's a "well-known" Underload one for fungot/EgoBot using ^ul/!ul.
19:43:09 <fungot> fizzie: not sure i understand
19:43:22 <fizzie> And there's been quite a few others.
19:45:04 <MDude> I'm also not sure what a botloop would be other than two bots talking to each other. I guess more bots than that in a cycle?
19:45:46 <fizzie> Not "talking", replying to commands.
19:47:28 <fizzie> ^ul (^ul )(+ul )(~:SaS~aSaS(:^)S):^
19:47:29 <fungot> +ul (+ul )(^ul )(~:SaS~aSaS(:^)S):^
19:47:39 <fizzie> That was with thutubot or something.
19:47:43 <fizzie> But anyways.
19:47:54 -!- azaq23 has joined.
19:47:58 <fizzie> ^ul (^ul )(!ul )(~:SaS~aSaS(:^)S):^
19:47:59 <fungot> !ul (!ul )(^ul )(~:SaS~aSaS(:^)S):^
19:48:14 <fizzie> EgoBot: Didn't you have a !ul?
19:48:32 <fizzie> Well, you see the point.
19:48:43 <nortti> !help languages
19:48:43 <EgoBot> ​languages: Esoteric: 1l 2l adjust asm axo bch befunge befunge98 bf bf8 bf16 bf32 boolfuck cintercal clcintercal dimensifuck glass glypho haskell kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain perl qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 underload unlambda whirl. Competitive: bfjoust fyb. Other: asm c cxx forth sh.
19:48:55 <nortti> !underload (foo)S
19:48:55 <EgoBot> foo
19:49:10 <fizzie> Some (HackEgo) add something invisible (zero-width space) in front of all output to break them, also.
19:49:22 <fizzie> ^ul (^ul )(!underload )(~:SaS~aSaS(:^)S):^
19:49:22 <MDude> Ah, I didn't know fungot had commands like that, instead of being purely conversational.
19:49:23 <fungot> !underload (!underload )(^ul )(~:SaS~aSaS(:^)S):^
19:49:23 <fungot> MDude: " some people just read for fun.
19:49:24 <EgoBot> ​^ul (^ul )(!underload )(~:SaS~aSaS(:^)S):^
19:49:40 <fizzie> ^help
19:49:41 <fungot> ^<lang> <code>; ^def <command> <lang> <code>; ^show [command]; lang=bf/ul, code=text/str:N; ^str 0-9 get/set/add [text]; ^style [style]; ^bool
19:50:32 <boily> what happens if I put fungot twice in a reply? will fungot say two different things?
19:50:32 <fungot> boily: and the page i looked at the cl version.
19:51:18 <nortti> !underload (#echo foo)S
19:51:18 <EgoBot> ​#echo foo
19:51:46 <nortti> EgoBot seems to have that invisible space
19:52:11 <nortti> @help
19:52:12 <lambdabot> help <command>. Ask for help for <command>. Try 'list' for all commands
19:52:16 <nortti> @list
19:52:16 <lambdabot> http://code.haskell.org/lambdabot/COMMANDS
19:52:32 <fizzie> Gregorbots do, I suppose.
19:54:16 <nortti> !bf_textgen #echo foo
19:54:25 <nortti> !bf_txtgen #echo foo
19:54:27 <EgoBot> ​90 +++++++++++[>+++>+++++++++>+><<<<-]>++.>++.--.+++++.+++++++.<---.>---------.+++++++++..>-. [453]
19:54:36 <nortti> @bf +++++++++++[>+++>+++++++++>+><<<<-]>++.>++.--.+++++.+++++++.<---.>---------.+++++++++..>-.
19:54:36 <lambdabot> #echo foo
19:55:06 <nortti> and lambdabot prevents it by putting visible space in front of output
19:55:16 <fizzie> ^ignore
19:55:17 <fungot> ^(EgoBot|HackEgo|toBogE|Sparkbot|optbot|lambdabot|oonbotti)!
19:55:22 <fizzie> That's my list.
19:55:27 -!- oerjan has joined.
19:55:41 <nortti> fungot has ignore and oonbotti can be abused any way you want
19:55:42 <fungot> nortti: problem with the environment, which you still can’t whip out without some backlash. that’s impressive staying power. i am a free variable
19:56:47 <elliott> fizzie: Nice encoding.
19:57:16 <nortti> and if you are botop for oonbotti you can create one bot botloop in which oonbotti sends same command to itself infinitely
19:58:00 <oerjan> O_o
19:58:06 <nortti> or if you can get it to talk to itself it will be stuck in a loop executing eliza
19:58:28 <nortti> that one is simple
19:58:34 <nortti> #sendmsg oonbotti foo
19:58:46 <fizzie> Well, the ignore is a single regex that's directly matched against the nick!user@host prefix.
19:58:47 <oerjan> nortti: you know irc doesn't echo your own messages, right?
19:59:14 <fizzie> oerjan: You do see them if you PRIVMSG yourself, though.
19:59:26 <nortti> oerjan: yes. why do you think I'd think like that?
19:59:48 <oerjan> nortti: any talk of single-bot bot loops raises that flag
20:00:23 <nortti> ok. yes. it uses PRIVMSG to send message to itself
20:00:31 -!- oonbotti has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
20:01:28 -!- oonbotti has joined.
20:29:49 <Vorpal> fizzie, should I play Planescape: Torment?
20:32:28 <Slereah_> Yes you should
20:32:31 <Slereah_> Because it is awesome
20:32:51 <Sgeo> Slereah_, would it be acceptable to watch a video of someone playing Planescape: Torment?
20:32:59 <Slereah_> Eeeeeh
20:33:01 <Slereah_> I guess
20:33:03 <Slereah_> If you're lazy
20:33:16 <Vorpal> Slereah_, how hard is it to get to work properly on Windows 7 64-bit with a modern high end AMD GPU?
20:33:21 <Vorpal> :D
20:33:23 <Slereah_> Vorpal : Depends
20:33:31 <Slereah_> The CD version, it will crash
20:33:36 <Slereah_> The DVD version runs okay
20:33:45 <Slereah_> So be sure to check which one you get
20:33:45 <Vorpal> Slereah_, 4 CD version is what I found.
20:33:49 <Vorpal> hm
20:33:55 <elliott> Vorpal: Given up on buying it, eh?
20:33:59 <Slereah_> The CD version has this weird bug
20:34:07 <Vorpal> elliott, I want to make sure it runs before I buy it
20:34:09 <Slereah_> When there's too much graphics going around, it crashes
20:34:19 <Vorpal> Slereah_, actually, there seems to be patches though. Also I'm okay with windowed mode
20:34:20 <Slereah_> So it's actually all fine
20:34:21 <Slereah_> But
20:34:29 <Slereah_> The first time you encounter magic effects
20:34:30 <Slereah_> Bam!
20:34:40 <Slereah_> Also patches didn't do me much good
20:34:42 <elliott> Vorpal: GOG make sure stuff works on modern machines, don't they?
20:34:42 <Slereah_> But you can try
20:34:44 <Vorpal> Slereah_, how far into the game do you need to play to figure that out?
20:34:49 <elliott> So testing a non-GOG version seems ineffective.
20:34:53 <Vorpal> elliott, well also to check I like it.
20:35:07 <Vorpal> elliott, anyway even the gog site links to a modding guide to get widescreen stuff working
20:35:15 <Vorpal> so obviously in this case they didn't go the whole way
20:35:26 <Slereah_> Vorpal : Not very far
20:35:37 <Slereah_> Once you get to the catacombs
20:35:42 <Slereah_> You encounter some cranium rats
20:35:50 <Slereah_> They like throwing magic at you
20:35:53 <Vorpal> Slereah_, should be easy enough to play to and check.
20:36:05 <Vorpal> how many minutes can I possibly wate?
20:36:05 <Slereah_> Yeah, remember to save before entering the catacombs
20:36:07 <Vorpal> waste*
20:36:25 <Slereah_> There's actually a way to fix that problem
20:36:36 <Vorpal> Slereah_, will the save work when switching game engine later on? After all the widescreen mod said like "be aware that this breaks saves!!!" and so on
20:36:45 <Slereah_> You need to turn down the video card acceleration or whatever that was
20:36:49 <Vorpal> err s/engine/verson/
20:36:52 <Slereah_> But I couldn't find how to do it on some computers
20:37:04 <Vorpal> Slereah_, any experience with catalyst control center?
20:37:05 <Slereah_> No idea
20:37:10 <Slereah_> I don't know what that is
20:37:19 <Vorpal> Slereah_, the AMD/ATI equiv of nvidia control panel
20:37:40 <Vorpal> I have a Radeon HD
20:37:52 <Slereah_> Nope!
20:38:28 <Slereah_> http://bootstrike.com/Torment/Online/torment_vista.php
20:38:34 <Slereah_> Open the Display item in Control Panel. To do this, click Start, type desk.cpl in the Start Search box, and then click desk.cpl in the Programs list.
20:38:34 <Slereah_> Click Display Settings, and then click Advanced Settings. If you are prompted for an administrator password or for a confirmation, type the password, or click Allow.
20:38:34 <Slereah_> Move the Hardware Acceleration slider to None.
20:38:40 <Slereah_> That's the one
20:39:38 <Vorpal> err that is vista, not windows 7. There is no "advanced settings" there
20:39:39 <Vorpal> oh well
20:40:20 <Vorpal> oh the screen resolution one
20:40:26 <Vorpal> that is what desk.cpl is it seems
20:40:50 <Vorpal> however... there is no such slider
20:41:54 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: g'night).
20:42:23 <elliott> g'night are you serious
20:42:45 <Vorpal> what is wrong with that?
20:43:58 <monqy> g.night
20:44:00 <monqy> g-night
20:44:03 <monqy> g~night
20:44:11 <elliott> Vorpal: its
20:44:14 <elliott> 21:40 or somtehing
20:44:30 <nortti> here it is 23:45
20:44:31 -!- boily has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8).
20:46:59 <Vorpal> wow the pre-rendered movies of this game looks bad in modern terms.
20:48:25 <ion> I’ve been playing Thief 1. It was released in 1998. The prerendered movies are 320×240 with an Indeo 5 codec.
20:48:46 <Vorpal> Slereah_, what sort of build wrt stats is viable in planescape? I tend to go for a generalist when I can
20:48:54 <Vorpal> I just don't know if that will work out well
20:50:44 <Vorpal> ion, right, the rendering looks worst than Myst in this case I'd say
20:50:51 <Vorpal> and when was Myst released? 1995 iirc?
20:50:54 <Vorpal> something like that
20:51:35 <olsner> it is possible that wikipedia knows when Myst was released
20:51:56 <Vorpal> probably
20:52:07 <ion> It’s possible that wikipedia knows whether wikipedia knows when Myst was released.
20:52:20 <Vorpal> but I have the original CD and it came bundled with a mac my dad bought in 1996 or 1997 or so
20:52:27 <Vorpal> thus my guess
20:52:35 <olsner> wikipedia knows whether it knows? that makes it sound like wikipedia has become sentient
20:58:46 <Vorpal> The run key doesn't seem to work, or the tutorial is incorrect
21:01:23 <Vorpal> oh it says ctrl but it is shift
21:02:47 * john_metcalf is playing "Creatures 2"
21:03:41 <elliott> john_metcalf: Sgeo will be happy :P
21:09:16 <Sgeo> I've never played C2
21:09:28 <monqy> are you happy anyway
21:09:40 <Sgeo> When norns are suffering, I am happy.
21:09:42 <Sgeo> I mean, hi.
21:09:44 <monqy> hi
21:09:54 <elliott> hi
21:10:02 * Sgeo is currently wondering whether chemicals (other than setting Wounded to 0) can save an injured Fragile norn
21:10:21 <nortti> could someone explain to me step by step how you reduce "lambda" [(x)(y)(z)-(z)(y)(x)] to underload program?
21:11:02 <elliott> ask oerjan
21:12:28 * oerjan waves
21:12:58 <Sgeo> I think the answer to that question is no.
21:13:08 <Sgeo> The only way to save a dying fragile norn is to get rid of the wounds
21:13:12 <Sgeo> Directly
21:13:22 <oerjan> nortti: i assume you mean by the procedure in the article
21:15:25 -!- pikhq_ has joined.
21:15:46 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
21:16:03 <Vorpal> Sgeo, wait what is the gameplay if you can just set wounded to 0?
21:16:17 <nortti> oerjan: yes
21:16:18 <Vorpal> that sounds like something that would be a console command in any other game
21:16:25 <Sgeo> I wouldn't call setting wounded to 0 gameplay
21:16:27 <oerjan> nortti: let's follow the suggestion of always using the first rule. the first rule which can apply is [XY-A] = [Y-[X-A]]
21:16:30 <Sgeo> Yeah, more like a console command
21:16:36 <Vorpal> Sgeo, so cheating then?
21:16:51 <Sgeo> If you make addons, and use those addons, is that cheating?
21:17:05 <Sgeo> Because addons can do the same
21:17:29 <Vorpal> Sgeo, depends on if the addons are cheaty in most games? If someone make an addon to skyrim that gives you a staff of instakill with infinite charges then I would say that was cheating for example
21:17:30 <Sgeo> Of course, something that makes things paradicacle is boring
21:17:38 <nortti> oerjan: yes. now it is [(z)-[(y)-[(x)-(z)(y)(x)]]]
21:17:38 <Sgeo> paradiseical
21:17:40 <oerjan> although that's still not unambiguous, since you can split up in two ways. let's set X = (x) and Y = (y)(z), this gives [(y)(z)-[(x)-(z)(y)(x)]]
21:17:42 <Sgeo> I can't slepp
21:17:44 <Sgeo> spelell
21:17:48 <Vorpal> wow
21:18:00 <Vorpal> Sgeo, wtf does "paradiseical" mean?
21:18:08 <Vorpal> "like a paradise"?
21:18:12 <Sgeo> Yes
21:18:18 <Vorpal> right
21:18:20 <Sgeo> Although I don't know of anyone who made such an agent
21:18:28 <Sgeo> Besides, it could kill toxic norns probably
21:18:47 <oerjan> nortti: ok i guess we can do it twice. (i'm not sure if that's really according to "choose the first rule", but that's only for avoiding loops anyway.)
21:18:48 <Sgeo> (Norns that have a backwards biochemistry -- they thrive on stuff that's normally harmful)
21:19:12 <Sgeo> But yeah, so I made norns that have a chemical reaction 1 Wounded -> 2 Wounded
21:19:24 <Vorpal> that sounds a bit stupid
21:19:37 <Sgeo> hmm?
21:20:28 <Vorpal> Sgeo, to me that sounds like implementing haemophilia in a game :P
21:20:37 <Sgeo> Pretty much the goal
21:20:41 <Vorpal> why
21:20:47 <Sgeo> Because torture?
21:20:54 <Vorpal> what you want that?
21:21:13 <Sgeo> There's no set goal, you know
21:21:28 <oerjan> so [(z)-[(y)-[(x)-(z)(y)(x)]]], now [X-(BC)] = [X-(B)(C)]* applies
21:21:47 <oerjan> er wait no
21:22:18 <nortti> oerjan: wouldn't [(y)(z)-[(x)-(z)(y)(x)]] also reduce to [(z)-[(y)-[(x)-(z)(y)(x)]]] ?
21:23:02 <Vorpal> Sgeo, sure but it sounds a bit mean
21:23:21 <Sgeo> I've done worse
21:23:25 <oerjan> nortti: yeah it probably does
21:23:55 <Sgeo> Norn constantly in pain
21:24:11 <Sgeo> Norn that's constantly pumped with the "Punishment" chemical
21:24:14 <Sgeo> Norn that behaves randomly
21:24:31 <Sgeo> ("pull weather" "get grendel home")
21:24:37 <oerjan> i think we actually want [X-(A)B] = [X-(A)X][X-B]
21:25:00 <Vorpal> Sgeo, "grendel"?
21:25:14 <Sgeo> That one's mental issues were chemically controlled, so, via the Biochemistry Set [cheating], I could make the issue go away
21:25:19 <Sgeo> Vorpal, the "mean" creatures
21:25:23 <Sgeo> They beat up norns
21:25:31 <Sgeo> Although not as aggressively as my killer norns
21:25:32 <Vorpal> I see
21:25:35 <Vorpal> heh
21:25:44 <oerjan> giving [(z)-[(y)-[(x)-(z)(x)][(x)-(y)(x)]
21:25:46 <Vorpal> oh well
21:25:51 <oerjan> giving [(z)-[(y)-[(x)-(z)(x)][(x)-(y)(x)]]]
21:25:58 <oerjan> **
21:26:22 <Sgeo> My killer norns actually have a brain tract overriding their brains into always "hit norn" "hit ettin" or "hit grendel" whenever they see a norn, an ettin, or a grendel
21:26:29 <Sgeo> Also, they're immune to wounds.
21:27:26 <Sgeo> (And ATP Decoupler, and some other random toxins, but not all toxins)
21:28:01 <oerjan> then we can use the [(x)-(A)(x)] = :[(x)-(A)]~ rule twice
21:28:36 <oerjan> giving [(z)-[(y)-:[(x)-(z)]~:[(x)-(y)]~]]
21:29:55 <oerjan> it would have helped a lot if my brain were working
21:31:40 <oerjan> actually the "[(x)-(A)(x)] = (A)~ when x not in A" rule applies too
21:31:59 <oerjan> so make that [(z)-[(y)-(z)~(y)~]]
21:34:39 <oerjan> now apply [X-(A)B] = [X-(A)X][X-B]
21:35:23 <nortti> [(z)-[(y)-(z)][y-~(y)~]] ?
21:35:33 <nortti> *[(z)-[(y)-(z)y][y-~(y)~]]
21:36:09 <oerjan> *[(z)-[(y)-(z)y][(y)-~(y)~]]
21:36:16 <oerjan> er
21:36:21 <oerjan> *[(z)-[(y)-(z)(y)][(y)-~(y)~]]
21:36:57 <nortti> yes
21:37:19 <oerjan> which again gives [(z)-(z)~[(y)-~(y)~]]
21:37:36 <Sgeo> Vorpal, want to try it?
21:38:08 <Sgeo> http://creaturesdockingstation.com/
21:38:15 <Sgeo> You might have to do the offline thing
21:39:04 <oerjan> now [X-AB] = [X-A]B
21:39:20 <oerjan> when B does not contain any of the variables from X.
21:39:40 <oerjan> gives [(z)-(z)]~[(y)-~(y)~]]
21:39:41 <nortti> [(z)-(z)]~[(y)-~(y)~]
21:39:54 <oerjan> then [X-X]=
21:40:01 <oerjan> giving ~[(y)-~(y)~]
21:40:08 <Sgeo> Vorpal, you can also just watch LNA at http://lna.songua.com/
21:40:26 <Sgeo> Although note that that depicts a docked world
21:40:45 <Sgeo> That is, the person who runs that bought Creatures 3, and is running Docking Station with the rest of the Creatures 3 world attached
21:40:47 <nortti> then [X-AB]=[X-A]B
21:40:57 <nortti> ~[(y)-~(y)]~
21:41:01 <oerjan> yep
21:42:42 <oerjan> now i think we only can apply [X-B] = [X-(B)]^
21:43:07 <nortti> ~[(y)-(~(y))]^~
21:43:38 <oerjan> and now [X-(BC)] = [X-(B)(C)]*
21:44:22 <nortti> ~[(y)-(~)((y))]*^~
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21:45:46 <oerjan> [X-(A)B] = [X-(A)X][X-B]
21:46:11 <nortti> ~[(y)-(~)(y)][(y)-((y))]*^~
21:46:57 <oerjan> [(x)-(A)(x)] = (A)~ when x not in A.
21:47:34 <nortti> ~(~)~[(y)-((y))]*^~
21:47:39 <oerjan> [X-((A))] = [X-(A)]a
21:47:49 <nortti> ~(~)~[(y)-(y)]a*^~
21:47:54 <oerjan> [X-X] =
21:47:55 <nortti> ~(~)~a*^~
21:48:05 <oerjan> voilá!
21:48:55 <Sgeo> Hmm, I should find the electric wall
21:49:08 <Sgeo> absolutely the best agent to act as a barrier, because it sets up a real wall
21:49:17 <Sgeo> Rather than pushing creatures away
21:49:42 <oerjan> nortti: btw ~a*^ is an underload idiom, equivalent to Joy's "dip"
21:50:36 <oerjan> so in fact that's probably pretty close to what you'd craft with experience
21:51:28 <oerjan> (based on stack manipulation intuition)
21:52:27 <oerjan> *voilà
21:53:57 <elliott> viola
21:54:52 <oerjan> basically, ~ = swap top (y) and (z), giving (x)(z)(y); (~)~a*^ = swap the (x) and (z) underneath the (y), giving (z)(x)(y); then a ~ to switch (x) and (y)
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22:02:23 <nortti> wouldn't (X)~a*^ be same as >R X R> in forth?
22:03:07 <oerjan> well in effect, i guess
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22:04:07 <oerjan> assuming X did nothing similar to >R and R> itself
22:12:03 <oerjan> you might say underload ^ combines >R, R>, and forced execution
22:12:47 <nortti> okay. underload o
22:12:57 <nortti> -o+is pretty interesting esolang
22:14:14 <oerjan> one of the best
22:15:47 <elliott> oerjan: can you feature underload for me thx
22:15:59 <nortti> I mean like with ~a*^ you can pretty much use it for whatever you want
22:16:15 <elliott> nortti: underload is tc with just :()^
22:16:23 <elliott> albeit incredibly pathologically
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22:17:30 <oerjan> elliott: sorry, i've used up my quota on deadfish *evil cackle*
22:18:06 <elliott> oerjan: no by feature i mean
22:18:07 <elliott> write a blurb
22:18:09 <elliott> it's like
22:18:12 <elliott> half a month late
22:18:21 <elliott> to change the featured language
22:18:23 <shachaf> (laughs)
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22:20:29 <elliott> oerjan: you realise that new language list entry is a redlink, right
22:20:52 <oerjan> yes, i thought i'd give him a few days to flesh it out *insane snickering*
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22:21:29 <oerjan> also, underload isn't even a candidate.
22:21:50 <elliott> well
22:21:56 <elliott> someone add underload as a candidate then
22:22:48 <elliott> or write a blurb for one of the others
22:22:49 <elliott> or do ANYTHING
22:23:08 <oerjan> sorry, doing anything is against my policies
22:23:22 <oerjan> now, sheldon ->
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23:25:32 <david_werecat> !bfjoust dreadnought http://tinypaste.com/6eaf8673/save.php?hash=a86e5c18fe95f7470b88480043abbfcf
23:25:35 <EgoBot> ​Score for david_werecat_dreadnought: 61.9
23:27:19 <elliott> wow
23:28:08 <david_werecat> Maybe this will keep dreadnought in first with the new scoring system...
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23:42:02 <quintopia> elliott: complaints?
23:44:22 <elliott> hi
23:47:56 <quintopia> my highlights say you were complaining earlier
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