< 1339805525 107287 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :There seem some effects of MCK which are not possible in Impulse Tracker or any other tracker formats, such as desynchronized loops, or activating multiple effects for one note < 1339805634 534694 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although for desynchronized loops I could have the program expand the loops until they are synchronized when compiling it < 1339806072 185610 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :MegaZeux cannot play .NSF files so to create music for MegaZeux game require other program; it can play .MOD, .S3M, .IT, .XM, .OGG, .WAV formats, and maybe a few others too. < 1339806131 47258 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know if there is any MML compilers for these formats? < 1339806277 617686 :MoALTz_!~no@host-92-8-148-156.as43234.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1339806300 300885 :nortti_!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1339806634 124148 :MoALTz!~no@host-92-2-115-66.as43234.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1339807427 228957 :PatashuXantheres!~Patashu@c27-253-127-153.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1339807427 570026 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-127-153.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1339807432 266308 :Gregor!codu@codu.org QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1339807518 610427 :ion_!ion@heh.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1339807552 54189 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds > 1339807701 512623 JOIN :#esoteric < 1339807702 693970 :glogbot!codu@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1339807703 9557 :glogbackup!~glogbacku@64.31.59.246 PART :#esoteric < 1339807703 715804 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1339807704 939880 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric > 1339807705 635037 JOIN :#esoteric > 1339807706 150472 JOIN :#esoteric < 1339807808 200879 :glogbackup!~glogbacku@64.31.59.246 JOIN :#esoteric < 1339807814 169919 :Gregor!codu@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1339807825 66514 :ion_!ion@heh.fi NICK :ion < 1339807861 911134 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot: Oh shit you're not here. < 1339807877 565350 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Oh shit you're here. < 1339807904 67459 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only momentarily. I'm still in China, I just wanted to check how much SHIT WENT DOWN while I was gone. < 1339807907 969262 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :As it turns out: a lot. < 1339807926 887172 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the logs weren't working at one point; i haven't checked them since. < 1339807975 216827 :PatashuXantheres!~Patashu@c27-253-127-153.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1339807978 233808 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well looks like you just got them working < 1339807996 859681 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-127-153.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1339808017 698504 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did glogbackup figure it out? >_> < 1339808033 2357 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may have to implement proper log merging. I'll solicit logs if I need them. < 1339808055 451926 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: no, glogbot was still here, just not logging < 1339808057 6767 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: glogbackup was here, I think. < 1339808062 645682 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1339808069 655609 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: tunes.org logged everything. < 1339808070 342938 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So. < 1339808073 926879 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can merge that in. < 1339808081 178395 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okidoke. < 1339808082 527214 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Piffle. < 1339808086 681873 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I blame China. < 1339808110 569699 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: May I suggest having glogbackup always present? < 1339808147 577414 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :'snot a terrible idea *shrugs* < 1339808156 853854 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :snot, a terrible idea < 1339808209 955946 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway we won't see Gregor again, now that he's blamed China. < 1339808226 445161 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even more dangerously, I'm blaming China from WITHIN CHINA. < 1339808231 769964 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :right. < 1339808238 109756 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I suspect it might have been a software failure, anyway. < 1339808244 796549 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some line caused it to break or something. < 1339808258 104262 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it was a much more retarded software failure. < 1339808263 376331 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brog likes rocks! < 1339808306 99673 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :any relation to Thog? < 1339808348 876968 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION learns that Thog is also a muppet < 1339808385 15355 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi Gregor < 1339808396 839754 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-148-182.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Just so long as you don't say it in Mandarin. < 1339808414 3597 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :*nods* < 1339808444 800155 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :if he had said it in Mandarin, he'd been automatically disconnected already. or wait, that is if _we_ said it in Mandarin. < 1339808448 380725 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :and dont ask them about their grass mud horses < 1339808451 990996 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :also gregor < 1339808459 372884 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :when are you coming home we miss you < 1339808473 974183 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll be back on the 19th. < 1339808479 269980 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-148-182.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, I'll make it better for you. < 1339808517 51607 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-148-182.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :大中華人民共和国最良! < 1339808537 412278 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, http://brog.engrish.com/ < 1339808549 56811 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-148-182.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(~= "The great People's Republic of China is the best!") < 1339808574 580826 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, did i just ruin it again < 1339808583 776306 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1339808621 141692 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :second item on that site says yes < 1339808652 194416 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot: Messages? < 1339808678 361505 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PART :#esoteric < 1339808696 514719 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell Gregor you dont have any messages < 1339808696 661308 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1339808729 189360 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Did you know you can say < 1339808730 244679 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages? < 1339808730 730798 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, no messages today. < 1339808731 380187 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1339808781 819822 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-148-182.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :共産主義! < 1339808807 136893 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@massages < 1339808807 911958 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't have any new messages. < 1339808817 446991 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@massages? < 1339808818 82329 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, no messages today. < 1339808824 727571 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry. < 1339808825 566456 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-148-182.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :("Communism!") < 1339808844 975277 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Do you know how good a game _Zork: Grand Inquisitor_ is? < 1339808849 731467 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-148-182.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: < 1339808852 639250 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-148-182.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: No < 1339808864 102946 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: You should find out! < 1339808934 257750 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-127-153.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I stumbled upon this page: http://www.mu6.com/catalan_numbers_growth.html Which seems to show a relationship between the numbers of pascal's triangle and the catalan numbers. However, with pascal's triangle going on forever and ever, I was wondering if you could find such a relationship between pascal's triangle and any series of numbers... < 1339808958 784786 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: I have not even scrolled down that page and I can tell you it's the work of a crank. < 1339808972 316892 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-127-153.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1339808973 99538 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-127-153.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is < 1339808983 503549 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-127-153.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.mu6.com/images_catalan_numbers/catalan_pascal-208012.jpg picture in question < 1339809719 160226 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@time < 1339809720 467820 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Local time for elliott is Sat Jun 16 02:23:22 < 1339809755 762694 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-127-153.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is @time coded < 1339809759 194471 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-127-153.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like that for my own bot < 1339809777 951603 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Received a CTCP TIME from lambdabot < 1339809784 204495 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-127-153.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1339809784 902902 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-127-153.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1339809795 467264 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@time Patashu < 1339809797 34205 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Local time for Patashu is Sat Jun 16 11:23:09 2012 < 1339809806 486607 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-127-153.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I see it now < 1339810067 305688 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm wp has formulas for catalan numbers based on binomials, so obviously there is _some_ connection < 1339810114 809343 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :binom(2n,n) - binom(2n, n+1) for example < 1339810204 895371 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was waiting for oerjan to get on the case :P < 1339810305 114848 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the picture _does_ seem to spread them a bit randomly around < 1339810945 434423 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh what am i doing, i bet here's a great place to ask about parsers huh? :P < 1339810949 704021 :david_werecat!~david_wer@24-52-224-101.cable.teksavvy.com QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1339810950 810195 :davidwerecat!~david_wer@24.52.224.101 JOIN :#esoteric < 1339811061 245488 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm trying to figure out what kinds of parser methods are available, which are best and what constraints they operate under < 1339811066 745034 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i can read about one that suits me and implement it < 1339811067 156724 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1339811125 947425 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :LALR(1), packrat, monadic parsing combinators... < 1339811144 751161 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :..., recursive descent, ... < 1339811165 768290 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :..., pratt parsers, ... < 1339811252 3869 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha yeah, i can get more specific < 1339811252 608802 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) < 1339811279 438686 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just got sidetracked by wikipedia < 1339811323 449119 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so right, i have a sequence of either html tags or text values; i want to be able to create rules to match sections of the input sequence to identify specific text values with specific meanings and store that data < 1339811331 392411 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know enough to know what's best suited to the job < 1339811335 389465 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :google hasn't been helping much < 1339811521 405617 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what i'm trying to figure out is: which kind of parsing is most desirable for speed? what are the restrictions that i have to work in? < 1339812189 858911 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(looking at lalr now..) < 1339812209 401645 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems about right i think < 1339812838 306271 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I heard kmc doesn't even own a television. < 1339814068 985051 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-127-153.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1339814204 858300 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-127-153.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1339814610 599214 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Is it just me or is gcc's inline assembly syntax really badly documented? < 1339814703 399014 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Yes. < 1339815009 960921 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, so %ebp is "p". < 1339815014 846210 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how I would've found that out. < 1339815276 547404 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1339815358 663254 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh that's not even in http://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc/Machine-Constraints.html#Machine-Constraints < 1339815381 484893 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's worse is that apparently the constraints for %r8 through %r16 simply don't exist < 1339815488 773003 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi: ask edwardk about packrat parsing < 1339815491 49163 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you can handle it < 1339815514 202112 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :er that's "%r8 through %r15" < 1339815588 409254 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably these don't exist because the gcc machine descriptions have not needed them, seeing as they aren't special to particular x86 instructions < 1339815642 451623 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(whereas, for example, %rax and %rdx are special, because they implicitly hold the result of IMUL or RDTSC) < 1339815678 103830 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but this is a poor excuse for a lack of uniformity < 1339815705 753257 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this annoyed me when writing a generic syscall function for amd64 Linux < 1339815725 283936 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ideally it would just be asm("syscall" : pile of constraints) < 1339815808 781111 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then, if the function is inlined, the compiler can arrange for the arguments to be already present in %r10 and %r8 and such, rather than moving them there < 1339815826 199588 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you all see http://blog.xen.org/index.php/2012/06/13/the-intel-sysret-privilege-escalation/ < 1339815859 372681 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I saw that! < 1339815871 740098 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty neat. < 1339815964 709328 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-148-182.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1339815973 517577 :pikhq!~pikhq@70-56-230-103.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1339815984 857515 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, good times < 1339816000 601812 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I was writing asm("syscall" : ...) for 32-bit x86, in fact. < 1339816019 138317 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :not asm("int $0x80")? < 1339816023 650699 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, yes. < 1339816038 552447 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I *was* writing asm("syscall"), in fact, but then I was reminded not to do that.) < 1339816094 814238 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is syscall() the only assembly function you really need to write libc-less C in Linux? < 1339816122 629127 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess there are a some other parts of libc that you couldn't implement. < 1339816139 413173 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :By the way, I found out that gdb allocates memory by calling malloc(). < 1339816157 862174 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So if you p foo("abc") it'll malloc space for that string. < 1339816197 613631 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks up the symbol "malloc" in the target process's address space and calls it?? < 1339816205 131006 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it would seem. < 1339816207 111833 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if you don't have malloc, or just don't have symbols? < 1339816219 302214 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The symbol comes from libc, I guess. < 1339816232 11203 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you don't have malloc then it can't do p foo("abc") < 1339816264 315495 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was trying to figure out how gdb does syscalls by unmapping various pages and seeing if it could still manage it. < 1339816270 626233 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I guess gdb doesn't directly do syscalls at all. < 1339816278 706368 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: in my most recent libc-less project, I wrote syscall1 through syscall5, rdtsc, and mfence < 1339816301 234312 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just wrote a varargs syscall. < 1339816312 655364 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, this was 32-bit, which I guess is a bit simpler. < 1339816315 232504 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But actually not really? < 1339816326 156350 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :varargs :( < 1339816327 904123 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can always load junk from the stack into the argument registers. < 1339816337 107669 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wanted the nice inlining behavior < 1339816337 512533 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Hey, I was implementing the spec here! < 1339816342 138008 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :because i was ricing the code < 1339816345 525295 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :#include < 1339816353 175610 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: You know what you'd do if you wanted syscall performance? < 1339816354 830104 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not have syscalls. < 1339816355 421466 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ < 1339816384 711381 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know what you'd do if you wanted syscall performance? < 1339816387 23423 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not have syscalls. < 1339816390 550532 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :MS-DOS < 1339816407 135340 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i wrote asm for a specific use case of mmap, so i could load immediates into %r10, %r8, %r9 directly < 1339816407 303110 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess they have syscalls. But you don't *need* to use them. < 1339816436 970285 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i,i iopl(2) < 1339816441 25966 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did it turn out to be mmap2 instead of mmap, or is that just for i386? < 1339816448 16208 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :People used syscalls on MS-DOS. < 1339816458 549592 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: But they didn't *need* to! < 1339816468 177560 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I used __NR_mmap < 1339816479 821331 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a hack to allow >32-bit offsets on 32-bit linux, right? < 1339816490 423194 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Can you write @ for me? < 1339816491 222373 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it's a hack because mmap has 6 arguments. < 1339816500 93347 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The old ABI only allowed 4 or 5 arguments or something. < 1339816512 963253 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lot of "numbered syscalls" reset to 1 on amd64 because the newer versions predate the amd64 ABI < 1339816525 914509 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The mmap2() system call provides the same interface as mmap(2), except that the final argument specifies the offset into the file in 4096-byte units (instead of bytes, as is done by mmap(2))." < 1339816545 442973 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it does both, I don't know. < 1339816560 289356 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so how did the old ABI work with 5 arguments? < 1339816568 918059 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :By passing a pointer to some memory. < 1339816648 315585 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"to get to the other side" < 1339816655 607269 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Oi. < 1339816670 131058 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1339816735 617856 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Did you know there's a patron saint of drug smugglers? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jes%C3%BAs_Malverde < 1339816758 400303 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(fake saint, kind of like the "Nobel Prize" in Economics) < 1339816778 373685 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patron Memorial Saint < 1339816786 610284 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :He is not recognized as a saint by the Roman Catholic Church. < 1339816809 749170 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shock* < 1339816810 316171 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You have 5 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. < 1339816813 961854 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1339816827 411520 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ask Gregor What are all those messages? < 1339816827 909679 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1339816837 124778 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages < 1339816837 677144 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf asked 10s ago: What are all those messages? < 1339816846 39695 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mostly people saying "AGG UR BOT BORKED" < 1339816849 995982 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Are you ad rug smuggler? < 1339816859 440679 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash: fork: Cannot allocate memory < 1339816861 474737 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :FFFFFFFFFF < 1339816875 959833 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you got punked < 1339816901 491637 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: not by trade < 1339816911 434116 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have transported illegal drugs through zones in which they are illegal < 1339816914 579384 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is everywhere < 1339816938 729844 :pikhq!~pikhq@70-56-230-103.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: syscall isn't the only function you'll need to write in C... < 1339816951 634785 :pikhq!~pikhq@70-56-230-103.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, asm. < 1339816955 548268 :pikhq!~pikhq@70-56-230-103.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: It's just the only function that's really something you care about. < 1339816956 121367 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It is to write the thing I was writing! < 1339816971 121315 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, there are a bunch of others. kmc mentioned some of them and there are others. < 1339816972 995261 :pikhq!~pikhq@70-56-230-103.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume you don't care about setjmp, longjmp, et al. < 1339816991 809337 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i also cheated by using a few GCC builtin functions < 1339817004 369690 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :memset, memcpy, strlen, fmodf, ia32_shufps < 1339817004 928955 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish setjmp had an equivalent of makecontext(). < 1339817032 418096 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this considered bad C style? { int (*hd2i)(char) = hexdigit2int; ...hd2i()...hd2i()...; } < 1339817040 838817 :pikhq!~pikhq@70-56-230-103.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, yes, another good example of something you won't care much about. < 1339817056 244053 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Userspace threading is the future! < 1339817067 624556 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :these all (in my use case) expand to inline assembly < 1339817069 591776 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Did your network server do userspace threading? < 1339817079 162173 :pikhq!~pikhq@70-56-230-103.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I think more accurately that's considered "C style you wouldn't even realise exists". < 1339817084 615757 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it uses clone(2) < 1339817102 302858 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you call yourself a ricer! < 1339817104 824526 :pikhq!~pikhq@70-56-230-103.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Anyways. The thing taht sucks about *context most is they're relatively high overhead. < 1339817111 742856 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: i wanted to use multiple cores < 1339817131 70453 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I know! I spent a while optimizing a low-overhead version of them. < 1339817143 134829 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I ended up with was very close to *jmp. < 1339817145 156437 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : memset, memcpy, strlen, fmodf, ia32_shufps < 1339817150 52579 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't need asm for most of those < 1339817151 11214 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"need" < 1339817153 129676 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1339817156 406756 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"knead" < 1339817158 396758 :pikhq!~pikhq@70-56-230-103.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've just compared bsnes with libco in asm and libco using *context. < 1339817186 17606 :pikhq!~pikhq@70-56-230-103.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(bsnes cooperatively multitasks each CPU in its emulated systems) < 1339817196 845974 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You don't actually need assembly, I think -- you can get away with *jmp if you set up your stacks carefully. < 1339817232 230886 :pikhq!~pikhq@70-56-230-103.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: You need asm to change the stack pointer to a newly allocated stack, though. < 1339817257 949522 :pikhq!~pikhq@70-56-230-103.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I assume you're not messing with the jmpbuf, which you cannot do without relying on implementation details) < 1339817269 672695 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :420 rely on implementation details everyday < 1339817286 725933 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yes, you have to rely on implementation details. < 1339817291 428993 :pikhq!~pikhq@70-56-230-103.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I guess the asm would do the same. < 1339817295 181649 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not as if you're not -- right. < 1339817311 1717 :pikhq!~pikhq@70-56-230-103.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though the asm would only depend on the defined system ABI, rather than whatever the hell the libc is doing. < 1339817312 478822 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the other hand using the assembly yourself is probably nicer. < 1339817316 56410 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1339817318 462014 :pikhq!~pikhq@70-56-230-103.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which *might* change in different versions of the libc. < 1339817320 812402 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: isn't it great how growing pot in your own backyard and then smoking it yourself in your own house counts as interstate commerce? < 1339817348 775697 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does? < 1339817356 920484 :pikhq!~pikhq@70-56-230-103.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1339817362 793294 :pikhq!~pikhq@70-56-230-103.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is how a drug ban is constitutional. < 1339817365 126825 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, Gonzales v. Raich < 1339817375 182520 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about tobacco? < 1339817377 751489 :pikhq!~pikhq@70-56-230-103.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it's interstate commerce, and therefore Congress has the power to regulate it. < 1339817381 189896 :pikhq!~pikhq@70-56-230-103.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Likewise. < 1339817384 318429 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :back in 1920 you needed a constitutional amendment to ban a drug < 1339817408 399069 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in the days since then, the supreme court has decided that "interstate commerce" means "absolutely fucking anything" < 1339817424 749424 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the federal government can pass laws pertaining to anything it likes < 1339817431 393097 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which, honestly, might be a more reasonable system in this day and age < 1339817432 584347 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The government also contended that consuming one's locally grown marijuana for medical purposes affects the interstate market of marijuana, and hence that the federal government may regulate—and prohibit—such consumption." < 1339817450 786371 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[The environmentalist group Community Rights Council also filed a brief for the government, fearing limitation of federal power would undermine their agenda.[4]]] < 1339817453 958137 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lovely < 1339817468 208123 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's blatantly not what's in the constitution < 1339817477 386030 :pikhq!~pikhq@70-56-230-103.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, they really think that friggin' *butterfly effects* on the interstate market count. < 1339817486 886512 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That's a long [[Wikipedia:Article title]! < 1339817489 452595 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well they don't really think that < 1339817500 987984 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :they just want this law to be valid and so they invent a justification out of whole cloth < 1339817525 472347 :pikhq!~pikhq@70-56-230-103.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, yes, they don't *think* it, they just claim that it does. < 1339817544 842421 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it the growing or consuming part or both? < 1339817549 114808 :pikhq!~pikhq@70-56-230-103.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Yes. < 1339817789 885139 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Roe v. Wade is another example of this < 1339817803 453551 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm totally in favor of abortion rights, but the argument used by SCOTUS to get there is pretty fucking dodgy < 1339817832 306529 :ion!ion@heh.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1339817869 571639 :pikhq!~pikhq@70-56-230-103.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also look at some of the arguments used in favor of DOMA (don't think any have hit SCOTUS though) < 1339817938 711610 :pikhq!~pikhq@70-56-230-103.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Honestly, the precedents in place start making the UK look sane. < 1339817951 908485 :pikhq!~pikhq@70-56-230-103.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the set of UK laws is no longer knowable! < 1339817952 55403 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Whta was the dodgingness there? I'm not too familiar. < 1339817998 292509 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: they invented a constitutional "right to privacy" based on the due process clause of the 14th Amendment and a general gut feeling about the rest of the Constitution < 1339818025 675945 :pikhq!~pikhq@70-56-230-103.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: They ruled that abortion bans are unconstitutional because it violates the right to privacy implied by the 9th amendment and due process stated by the 14th. < 1339818037 627114 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1339818039 550047 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think Lawrence v. Texas is a similar argument < 1339818048 122706 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well frankly the US constitution is pretty draconian :P < 1339818057 561192 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :attributing that to due process seems pretty circular < 1339818059 867533 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's not surprising it's bent so much < 1339818072 982993 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"you have this civil right because the constitution says we have to respect the civil rights you have" < 1339818089 586904 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: really? what do you think is draconian, about the constitution as written? < 1339818092 503146 :pikhq!~pikhq@70-56-230-103.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I should note that the 9th amendment only states that the listing of rights is not comprehensive. < 1339818098 551572 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it just omits a lot of stuff that's important today < 1339818106 917209 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: draconian in terms of what the government is allowed to do/provide/etc. < 1339818121 419799 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess that's an idiosyncratic use of "draconian" < 1339818131 260807 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway obviously it's bent for good and bad causes and probably more the latter < 1339818138 747751 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nex ttime take a tip from us < 1339818142 723959 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't write the bloody thing down < 1339818145 179680 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :saves so much trouble < 1339818151 145576 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah SCOTUS "declined to adopt the district court's Ninth Amendment rationale" < 1339818159 545087 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :== elliott < 1339818168 211160 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm kmc? < 1339818188 53317 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry < 1339818190 391989 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a weird idiom < 1339818196 283901 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :weirdiom < 1339818204 481926 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yeah < 1339818209 846615 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Historically, "No Act of Parliament can be unconstitutional, for the law of the land knows not the word or the idea."[3] < 1339818212 520201 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think the right wing in the USA kind of has a point about "judicial activism" < 1339818219 150796 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i think it's the lesser of two evils, in many if not most cases < 1339818234 294162 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is judicial activism worse than the normal process of amending laws :P < 1339818248 900301 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's all kind of fucked up < 1339818259 69123 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the us is weird < 1339818283 309559 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you guys should have just turned into 50 separate countries < 1339818304 723807 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :they tried that first < 1339818317 590309 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Articles_of_Confederation < 1339818321 631825 :pikhq!~pikhq@70-56-230-103.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: They also complain about legit uses of the courts as "judicial activism". < 1339818322 98262 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it didn't work < 1339818347 966934 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: it's not my fault you guys are incompetent < 1339818349 240518 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :aiui becuase nobody could force the states to pony up some coin < 1339818351 878891 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :look < 1339818353 595466 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're trying < 1339818361 794862 :pikhq!~pikhq@70-56-230-103.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :To the point where I've heard that merely *knocking down laws* is "judicial activism". < 1339818362 770832 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :we could just kick the South out of the country < 1339818368 294547 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would solve many if not most problems < 1339818384 711522 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway this is what happens when you stray from the queen and god < 1339818396 974372 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hope you take this lesson on board in your next reincarnation < 1339818405 477345 :pikhq!~pikhq@70-56-230-103.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm of the opinion that the US would function much better as a few different countries. < 1339818410 110686 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: so these people reject Marbury v. Madison? < 1339818412 779176 :pikhq!~pikhq@70-56-230-103.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps one for each major reason. < 1339818421 358337 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: do you expect they even know what that is < 1339818427 36779 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1339818432 80042 :pikhq!~pikhq@70-56-230-103.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: They would if they knew it! < 1339818433 71478 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway circlejerking about some imagined strawman right-winger is tedious < 1339818440 974669 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's too many real ones to bother doing that < 1339818441 164702 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :== elliott < 1339818453 872341 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :circlejerking is tedious < 1339818505 914624 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1a/Royal_Coat_of_Arms_of_the_United_Kingdom_%28HM_Government%29.svg/743px-Royal_Coat_of_Arms_of_the_United_Kingdom_%28HM_Government%29.svg.png < 1339818511 767303 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you guys have anything this trippy < 1339818518 614692 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(im joking when i say) < 1339818519 605785 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(trippy) < 1339818522 55036 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(dont take me seriously) < 1339818522 998585 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(please) < 1339818526 886532 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i could feel it about to happen) < 1339818528 22427 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(dont) < 1339818539 444680 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :circlejerking is tedious, have sex or go home < 1339818542 568701 :MDude!~fyrc@67.232.231.162 NICK :MDoze < 1339818543 367655 :pikhq!~pikhq@70-56-230-103.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:US_Great_Seal_Reverse.svg Well, there's the reverse of the Great Seal, I guess. < 1339818566 431930 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :take a look at the lions in the middle < 1339818568 103341 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're so chill < 1339818583 924238 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Great_Seal_of_United_States.jpg < 1339818603 808787 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: that thing has always struck me as inviting conspiracy theories < 1339818609 199317 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just looks evil < 1339818610 313057 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1339818617 807041 :pikhq!~pikhq@70-56-230-103.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It does just that. < 1339818618 411951 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :original trolls < 1339818643 744101 :pikhq!~pikhq@70-56-230-103.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially the "Novus Ordo Seclorum", which can be interpreted by people not good at Latin as "New world order". < 1339819022 794906 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"For me Gentoo is perfect. For you, perhaps not. What is really strage about Gentoo is this: people who like it or dislike it keep constantly refering to Gentoo-when in reality we are refering to Linux. With othert distro's when you have problems they are problems with Redhat or with SuSE or with Lindows. But if you have problems with Gentoo you have problems with Linux. That's because with Gentoo you have returned to the source." < 1339819152 658770 :pikhq!~pikhq@70-56-230-103.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Such a bad thing. < 1339819160 66958 :pikhq!~pikhq@70-56-230-103.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :They'd almost have a point if it were Slackware. < 1339821218 660340 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1339821303 546567 :MDoze!~fyrc@67.232.231.162 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1339821855 807668 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there any audio format that has a header specifying sample rate and stereo but does not include file idenfication or length (so that length is based on the length of the file instead)? < 1339821907 284899 :pikhq!~pikhq@70-56-230-103.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, but honestly there should be. < 1339821950 446475 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could invent one and suggest supporting in SoX; it should be not too complicated to invent < 1339821995 765675 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Aren't there streaming audio formats that are like that? < 1339822099 686797 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Maybe; I don't know. I also don't know if SoX supports them. < 1339822425 7809 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Address 0x00: bit0 and bit1 = number of channels (1, 2, 4, or 6); bit2 and bit3 = bits (4, 8, 16, or 32); bit4 = signed/unsigned; bit5 = endian; bit6 and bit7 = unused (set to zero). < 1339822433 417077 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Address 0x01: track number. < 1339822444 969137 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Address 0x02 and 0x03: video syncrhonization number or album number. < 1339822454 704756 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Address 0x04 to 0x07: sample rate in decihertz. < 1339822467 530308 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The rest of the data: raw uncompressed audio data. < 1339822534 889336 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this good? < 1339822549 924408 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't pack bits like that < 1339822562 746279 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Why? < 1339822578 736750 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :cause it's annoying to encode and decode < 1339822595 441694 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ideally the header would be a sequence of numbers all the same size < 1339822611 620004 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It isn't annoying to encode and decode < 1339822618 698739 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's more annoying than not doing it < 1339822629 11490 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also you might want a magic number at the beginning < 1339822636 738669 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it's kind of bad to design a format without any extension mechanism < 1339822640 361421 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no matter how trivial it seems now < 1339822652 425728 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :My whole point is not to have a magic number at the beginning or any length specifier < 1339822655 47030 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example it's not ridiculous to have more than 7 channels < 1339822664 994842 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :magic number has nothing to do with a length specifier < 1339822668 535684 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do you want no magic number < 1339822673 186838 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just helps identify the file type < 1339822699 560453 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, you aren't even encoding the number of channels < 1339822702 43435 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :And there *is* an extension mechanism; there are two unused bits. < 1339822709 41142 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's... not what i mean, at all < 1339822732 982724 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there really no standard container format which is suitable to express this information < 1339822743 787920 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :mv file file.zzo # extension mechanism < 1339822760 197617 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :As far as I know all of them require the length in the header too, which is one thing I am trying to avoid < 1339822773 316145 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do people use for streaming audio then? < 1339822775 950467 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since the data may be piped from another program which does not yet know the length < 1339822778 512289 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know there are mp3 streams of indefinite length < 1339822790 158339 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and mpeg transport streams generally < 1339822790 304671 :pikhq!~pikhq@70-56-230-103.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: He's wanting raw audio, though... < 1339822798 669214 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well anyway < 1339822803 317981 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if you roll your own format < 1339822810 556021 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't do something silly like this 1,2,4,6 enumeration < 1339822820 897139 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently .wav doesn't have a file length. < 1339822831 959035 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the header should be an array of 16-bit little endian numbers < 1339822833 610785 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :for simplicity < 1339822837 291509 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has chunks which have lengths, but you can have as many of them as you want. < 1339822841 777832 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: The data itself doesn't but it is in a RIFF container which does include length < 1339822844 172822 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should start with a magic number, a version number, and the length of the header itself < 1339822860 32523 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Maybe I misread. < 1339822899 893872 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this way new headers can have more fields, and yet old programs will just ignore those fields < 1339822900 268329 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, I did. < 1339822917 458714 :pikhq!~pikhq@70-56-230-103.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: A RIFF file is a single RIFF chunk that can contain chunks. < 1339822930 155259 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is something almost every format should do, imo < 1339822930 302295 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want to include such redundant things as magic number and the length of the header itself. I might change it but I don't want to add version number either; I want to keep the four byte sample rate and the rest of the header also being exactly four bytes. < 1339822932 873105 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but like i'm no expert < 1339822946 93376 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: from where do you get all these arbitrary constraints? < 1339822964 772906 :pikhq!~pikhq@70-56-230-103.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: The magic number thing is fairly standard UNIX convention. < 1339822966 82538 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean if you're designing "format to satisfy zzo38's particular aesthetic requirements" then go ahead < 1339822971 797462 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: It is going to become too complicated otherwise < 1339822978 597458 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: What about ogg? < 1339822981 595476 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're designing "a good format, which won't pointlessly waste programmer time in the future" then please do not go ahead < 1339822989 991927 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh < 1339823011 975147 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's "too complicated" to have channel number be its own field instead of some wacky bit-packed enumeration? < 1339823022 728280 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't understand < 1339823024 304886 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: why are you arguing with zzo38 < 1339823029 77366 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this seems like absolutely terrible engineering to me < 1339823030 514278 :pikhq!~pikhq@70-56-230-103.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Magic number makes things simpler. < 1339823033 418030 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what benefit are you trying to extract from this energy exertion < 1339823040 755487 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not want extra metadata. (The reason I included the track number is just because there is room left over; I want eight bytes header so that it will be aligned; instead of using seven bytes or something like that) < 1339823042 307841 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: kmc is addicted to IRC arguments. < 1339823044 496186 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :not bit-packing also makes things simpler < 1339823044 672454 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :alternatively what harm are you trying to prevent < 1339823046 67462 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: We all are. < 1339823057 12015 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: 16 or 32 byte header would also be aligned < 1339823062 19699 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: yeah :( < 1339823068 664880 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know < 1339823069 366533 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Yes it would be, but I don't want it too long < 1339823070 161662 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i will argue with you if it makes my questions get answered < 1339823075 434454 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :16 bytes is "too long"? < 1339823076 208932 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm happy to perform this service < 1339823080 395949 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what fucking planet are you from < 1339823089 845401 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you planning to store your audio files on punched cards? < 1339823091 203485 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Earth < 1339823102 564016 :pikhq!~pikhq@70-56-230-103.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: It seems what you want is an analog of PNM for audio. < 1339823102 851950 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :somehow real formats get designed with these flaws < 1339823104 739134 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: You should charge people for arguing with them. < 1339823106 198295 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :somebody must be responsible < 1339823114 651575 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :somebody must have had the opportunity to stop it < 1339823117 491568 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : kmc: why are you arguing with zzo38 what benefit are you trying to extract from this energy exertion alternatively what harm are you trying to prevent < 1339823122 281657 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: PNM has a magic header! < 1339823122 463993 :pikhq!~pikhq@70-56-230-103.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Magic number is reasonable for this. < 1339823127 31604 :pikhq!~pikhq@70-56-230-103.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Yes, I know. < 1339823133 389590 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's unlikely zzo38's format will catch on, but I think i have some minimal responsibility to try to stop this madness < 1339823139 248389 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :No of course I will not store them on punched cards; the header is small compared to the audio itself which would be already too large to store on punched cards < 1339823152 693698 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: don't you think the world would be less interesting without zzo38's designs in them < 1339823153 463260 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: you really have no sense of irony do you < 1339823158 133385 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's true < 1339823162 113248 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore stop < 1339823168 948675 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean i joined this channel largely to argue with crackpots < 1339823173 272528 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Well, you should have free of speech to say what you like and argue what you like, whether some people agree/disagree < 1339823198 107258 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately i think there is only one active crackpot in the channel < 1339823201 673088 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Free as in free of speech. < 1339823208 354457 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Is it: Me? < 1339823214 897207 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shacrackpot < 1339823218 635622 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm an idle crackpot < 1339823225 114659 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: Good point. < 1339823235 993735 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: anyway instead of arguing with zzo38 implement @ for me < 1339823244 397515 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it makes sense that esoteric languages would attract the "zomg your program uses 1 MB of RAM" people < 1339823256 900372 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I intend for one thing the format to be use as is pipe from one program to another if some header information is still needed (such as sample rate and so on); not to store in a file, although it still can be stored in a file if wanted < 1339823260 486607 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Since when is this channel about esoteric languages? < 1339823274 606399 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it makes me really super irrationally angry when this wanking over unrealistic size constraints crosses over into practical non-esoteric designs < 1339823293 526240 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: magic number and header size are still important there < 1339823296 691531 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: are you ever not annoyed at something < 1339823306 67235 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :again, header size preserves compatibility between versions of the format < 1339823307 709305 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder whether elliott has me on /ignore again. < 1339823317 122172 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't < 1339823322 348188 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :put another way, are you certain you've just now thought of every field you will ever want < 1339823353 119058 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, usefulness of my argument aside < 1339823359 67203 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :do other people agree with what i'm saying < 1339823360 795678 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or am i crazy < 1339823377 258617 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would personally design it the way you suggest < 1339823378 397610 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Can I choose both? < 1339823384 892227 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think zzo38 is under any particular obligation to < 1339823388 819733 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and he can design whatever format he wants < 1339823390 491406 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i won't use it though < 1339823392 872339 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some of the fields I have I think are not even needed < 1339823407 711320 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :right i don't think zzo38 is under any "obligation" either < 1339823415 182037 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38 is free to design a bad format if they like < 1339823426 150024 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but really it's pointless arguing with someone who clearly has a different value system for these goals than you here < 1339823430 434439 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but this started with the question < 1339823432 916020 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : Is this good? < 1339823436 872075 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and my answer is < 1339823437 754534 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"no" < 1339823441 473504 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that's that < 1339823447 857715 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay! < 1339823480 489559 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :There could be three bytes for indicating number of channels (rather than enumeration) and signed/unsigned and endian and number of bits and then one more for video synchronization number or track number. < 1339823514 801670 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"When the going gets tough, you don't want a criminal lawyer, you want a *criminal* laywer, know what I'm saying?" < 1339823530 741299 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The format is not meant to change < 1339823534 964231 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: why haven't you coded any @ yet < 1339823546 492179 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop being a jerk < 1339823550 380482 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's rude to not code @ < 1339823663 846146 :pikhq!~pikhq@70-56-230-103.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Sometimes, I do get offended at programs using 1 MiB of RAM. < 1339823676 996740 :pikhq!~pikhq@70-56-230-103.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :... When that's actually only doable via bad code. < 1339823689 158158 :pikhq!~pikhq@70-56-230-103.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :/bin/cat shouldn't use 1 MiB. < 1339823690 51941 :pikhq!~pikhq@70-56-230-103.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1339823713 228398 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it actually? < 1339823716 809948 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I agree it shouldn't require that much RAM to run < 1339823761 417878 :pikhq!~pikhq@70-56-230-103.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I doubt it. < 1339823775 857813 :pikhq!~pikhq@70-56-230-103.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Just using it as an example of something that would be bloated if it were using that much. < 1339823809 570972 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mightn't cat have a big buffer? < 1339823842 184942 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat on Linux can probably just use something like splice, can't it? < 1339823844 212272 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe this way better: Address 0x00 = magic number; Address 0x01 = four bits for number of channels (1 to 16), four bits for number of bits (1, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, ..., 32768); Address 0x02 = one bit for endian, one bit for signed/unsigned, rest unused should be set to zero; Address 0x03 = track number or video synchronization number; Address 0x04 to 0x07 = sample rate in decihertz. Is this way better? Now it has magic number < 1339823876 70904 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Doesn't splice only work between files? < 1339823895 325274 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Does it? < 1339823915 400243 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It only works stupidly/. < 1339823918 846779 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Anyway, write @. < 1339823933 76436 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :splice() moves data between two file descriptors without copying between kernel address space and user address space. It transfers up to len bytes of data from the file descriptor fd_in to the file descriptor fd_out, where one of the descriptors must refer to a pipe. < 1339823958 110699 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want extensions for new version, make the high six bits at address 0x02 to be the number of additional four-byte pieces of heading. < 1339823960 591489 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, well, I knew it was stupid somehow. < 1339824119 246133 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this way better now? < 1339824360 174004 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually I think magic number really is not needed. Let's address 0x00 = track number or video synchronization number; address 0x01 = four bits for number of channels (1 to 16), four bits for number of bits (1, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, ..., 32768); Address 0x02 = one bit for endian, one bit for signed/unsigned, rest unused should be set to zero (reserved for future use); address 0x03 = additional header (after sample rate) < 1339824403 520594 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I think it is better. < 1339824587 940100 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now you can have more than six channels < 1339824677 249526 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Why are you worrying about the number of header bits when you'll be sending an uncompressed audio stream over the pipe? < 1339824824 349572 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I just want to omit redundancy < 1339824930 687909 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: ⟿ < 1339824933 151664 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't that great? < 1339825025 929747 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The data can now be from 1 to 16 channels with from 1 to 32768 bits for the data, and there is still some space left over for future expansion < 1339825127 364035 :pikhq!~pikhq@70-56-230-103.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're worried about bits in the header. < 1339825127 551760 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice arrow bro < 1339825132 553465 :pikhq!~pikhq@70-56-230-103.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have trillions of them. < 1339825300 427131 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the sample rate is set to zero then it means that there is no setting for the sample rate < 1339825997 949008 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving > 1339839881 333973 JOIN :#esoteric < 1339839883 590841 :glogbot!codu@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1339839883 994377 :glogbackup!~glogbacku@64.31.59.246 PART :#esoteric > 1339839885 457360 JOIN :#esoteric < 1339839885 767939 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric > 1339839885 965394 JOIN :#esoteric < 1339839888 191445 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The sample audio data compression format is, as far as I know, not really documented anywhere. But if you're writing files, you can just opt to not use it; there's a flag in the sample header that says compressed/not. (I've written my decompression code -- because real Impulse Tracker files *do* use it -- based on the code in libmikmod.) < 1339839986 347684 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have seen tat yes, you can use uncompressed samples. And I am doing writing; I am trying to make "ITMCK", like "PPMCK" and "XPMCK" and so on but for .IT output < 1339840332 265384 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I suppose if the user tells it to load a "IMPS" sample file, it can simply load that and not worry about compression) < 1339840758 425582 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why doesn't the volume/panning column support tremolo? < 1339840927 879378 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1339841039 731955 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a question probably only whoever wrote it can answer. (It does have those effects for the effect column.) < 1339841131 880366 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(There's even some unused values for the volume/panning column it could use.) < 1339841372 366266 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes I did see that < 1339841586 897690 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-15-241.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1339841587 347924 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-15-241.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1339841587 540813 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1339841772 22997 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1339842079 676520 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu < 1339842198 624616 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@178235038077.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1339842351 505322 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1339843441 911968 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1339844726 864785 :derdon!~derdon@p5DE8A9BF.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1339844754 628798 :derdon!~derdon@p5DE8A9BF.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1339845008 594174 :derdon!~derdon@p5DE8A9BF.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1339845213 151441 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1339845412 706589 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1339846002 303124 :TodPunk!~Tod@166-70-93-209.ip.xmission.com QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1339846017 870240 :TodPunk!~Tod@166-70-93-209.ip.xmission.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1339846772 895906 :john_metcalf!~digital_w@87.115.178.251 JOIN :#esoteric < 1339847058 589539 :john_metcalf!~digital_w@87.115.178.251 PART :#esoteric < 1339847063 266861 :john_metcalf!~digital_w@87.115.178.251 JOIN :#esoteric < 1339848194 381196 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1339848990 471716 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :How to calculate what tone-portamento speed is required for a specified note in a specified number of frames? < 1339849775 976591 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-15-241.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1339849776 202737 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-15-241.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1339849776 202922 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1339849814 896962 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1339851880 638168 :david_werecat!~david_wer@24-52-224-101.cable.teksavvy.com JOIN :#esoteric > 1339857444 616002 JOIN :#esoteric < 1339857446 312795 :glogbot!codu@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1339857446 772114 :glogbackup!~glogbacku@64.31.59.246 PART :#esoteric < 1339857447 635104 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric > 1339857448 739322 JOIN :#esoteric < 1339857449 182438 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric > 1339857449 255227 JOIN :#esoteric < 1339857878 277027 :nooga!~nooga@public-gprs366134.centertel.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1339858307 778220 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :welcome back codu < 1339858493 882426 :nooga_!~nooga@77-45-90-215.sta.asta-net.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1339858631 162960 :nooga!~nooga@public-gprs366134.centertel.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1339858901 853350 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-127-153.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1339860825 680032 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1339860852 849890 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1339861518 380891 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1339861617 842431 :Gregor!codu@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1339861882 710609 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1339862597 304408 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1339863254 863615 :nooga_!~nooga@77-45-90-215.sta.asta-net.com.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1339863371 866746 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1339863455 517143 :david_werecat!~david_wer@24-52-224-101.cable.teksavvy.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1339863969 392856 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1339864079 310843 :function!~root@freebsd/developer/variable NICK :constant < 1339864094 7151 :variable!root@freebsd/developer/variable NICK :Guest24216 < 1339864118 815982 :constant!~root@freebsd/developer/variable NICK :variable < 1339864732 923069 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1339865014 864395 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1339865015 262840 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1339865015 615952 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1339865015 793370 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1339865018 169677 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1339865041 257899 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :62) oohhh ha heh and what are your other characteristics? oh, many, madbrain but it's hardly worth it to go on with listing that list here < 1339865083 315089 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :569) Phantom_Hoover: Sort of a monadic human centipede. < 1339865083 517869 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :825) i just whacked it whacking is fine < 1339865083 663751 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :82) bi is like sqrt(2)/2 * straight + i * sqrt(2)/2 * gay < 1339865083 663933 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :403) i never meta turing. he died before i was born. < 1339865134 171731 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thems some high quality quotes < 1339865145 476987 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1339865555 747459 :Nisstyre!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1339865769 635211 :Nisstyre!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre JOIN :#esoteric < 1339865891 871971 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1339866472 797140 :david_werecat!~david_wer@24-52-224-101.cable.teksavvy.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1339866566 915460 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-139-161.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1339866730 380716 :pikhq!~pikhq@70-56-230-103.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1339867524 634752 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :What a good selection. < 1339867549 278333 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :62's weak. < 1339867756 172990 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't like 569 a lot but thats probably because i'm not such a big haskell fan < 1339867772 904036 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's got substance, even if i can't appreciate that substance < 1339867888 298398 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :82 is weaker < 1339867893 250275 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :825 is kind of lame too < 1339867899 11051 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :569 could use more context < 1339867901 905331 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but 403 is ok < 1339868023 255233 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i'm getting more used to the idea i am actually mentally ill < 1339868190 38940 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and back to the topic < 1339868226 906136 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahh i just got 403 < 1339868237 424343 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :take a mentally pill for your mentally ill and you mentally get better will, i'm sure < 1339868254 329907 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what u ppl up to < 1339868292 41713 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am at a social happening, and it's weird. < 1339868317 906385 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there food? < 1339868323 940072 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what happening? < 1339868341 369365 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :A spontaneousish thing. < 1339868358 250263 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :An "after-party" of sorts. You know, that sort of thing. < 1339868366 774257 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh < 1339868386 290534 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am just sitting home on irc and programming < 1339868388 221359 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i tend to prefer the food to the drink < 1339868389 864943 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-196.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1339868394 278863 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :im vamire < 1339868399 276370 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@178235038077.elblag.vectranet.pl QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1339868404 863495 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-196.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How odd, I'm alive < 1339868407 213412 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-196.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1339868505 137277 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :those mini spinach quiche finger foods < 1339868517 642639 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Actually, it's tangentially related to this "ALT" thing that I've mentioned.) < 1339868524 685887 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-196.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :quiche isn't finger food < 1339868555 6663 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there an image equivalent of @google? < 1339868563 65916 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :silly question i guess < 1339868564 350776 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :! < 1339868580 806445 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-196.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@google image hat < 1339868582 597227 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://imagehat.com/ < 1339868582 809181 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Title: imagehat studio - a web design company just outside of madison, wisconsin < 1339868585 398966 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-196.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Awww < 1339868619 900580 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://metroespresso.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/Salmon-and-Leek-Mini-Quiche.jpg < 1339868653 808477 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is what i have in mind approximately < 1339868674 593478 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not only that < 1339868706 762449 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm gonna go exchange money for goods < 1339868723 793773 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.gourmetdelish.com.au/images/Bacon%20and%20Egg%20Finger%20food.jpg < 1339868861 464191 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for every day spent hungry, tired, lost, depressed.. may there be a day of delighting in finger foods < 1339869321 870113 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1339869963 138549 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :finger foods are great < 1339870291 211828 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1339870389 297584 :KingOfKarlsruhe!~chatzilla@p5B131586.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1339870696 716749 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1339870957 164896 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :DMM seems to be writing about half of the comments on a postcard these days. < 1339871007 419523 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also http://www.irregularwebcomic.net/197.html explains how he has so much time, i think < 1339871025 657609 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(even he uses it all up) < 1339871029 548272 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*even if < 1339871099 499295 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1339871441 529027 :MDude!~fyrc@67.232.231.162 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1339871839 860720 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 JOIN :#esoteric < 1339872208 825672 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-221-74.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1339872251 106808 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: hi < 1339872283 781711 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-221-74.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hhelo < 1339872284 255874 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: You have 15 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. < 1339872329 77883 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-221-74.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:45:19 Plugin `tell' failed with: thread killed < 1339872336 571327 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-196.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Popular guy monqy < 1339872347 873590 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1339872355 79309 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1339872622 825299 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Only wimps use tape backup; real men just upload their important stuff on ftp and let rest of the world mirror it" --Linus Torvalds < 1339872717 701109 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-196.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where wimps == people with no friends < 1339872783 249409 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What kind of physical media backup work best? < 1339872795 571614 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-196.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stone slab < 1339872803 915229 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-196.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Expensive and slow, though < 1339872807 277674 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-196.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But fireproof! < 1339872885 15739 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Depends on your needs. I’ve backed up some files as QR code on paper with a laser printer. < 1339872885 867182 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :clay is also fireproof, i think < 1339872889 967151 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have access to a fireproof safe. < 1339872907 130330 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-139-161.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Currently, several hard drives. < 1339872917 22350 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(fire actually makes it _more_ long-lived) < 1339872948 979495 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-139-161.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes, I guess you could glaze in QR codes. :) < 1339872952 947854 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: All of my data will probably not even fill one hard drive < 1339872967 438733 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-139-161.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: The "several" bit is for redundancy. < 1339872981 641616 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just put a “0.” in front of the number representing your entire data and put a mark at that exact point on a wooden plank. < 1339872999 805359 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :How many are needed for good enough redundancy? < 1339873048 593155 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ion: I think that is impossible; no tools are exact enough, the wood can rot, and Heisenberg's uncertainty principle also gets in the way. < 1339873065 52976 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :lim_{redundancy→good} numDisks = ∞ < 1339873073 522490 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Either that or you would need big wood < 1339873080 87778 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: OH, REALLY? < 1339873152 496267 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ion: I think so. < 1339873173 567930 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In short: just say NO TO DRUGS, and maybe you won't end up like the Hurd people." < 1339873675 842784 :KingOfKarlsruhe!~chatzilla@p5B131586.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 13.0/20120601045813]