> 1339921581 708605 JOIN :#esoteric < 1339921584 456750 :glogbot!codu@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1339921585 189966 :glogbackup!~glogbacku@64.31.59.246 PART :#esoteric > 1339921585 826658 JOIN :#esoteric > 1339921586 341830 JOIN :#esoteric < 1339921586 721466 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1339921587 405544 :glogbackup!~glogbacku@64.31.59.246 QUIT :Excess Flood < 1339921588 953963 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1339921697 623290 :Gregor!codu@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1339921993 173401 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something is desperately wrong X_X < 1339922007 168071 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I can't easily figure it out or fix it 'til I'm back in the States. < 1339922293 84048 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-196.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, I think I've got a cold < 1339922297 600808 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-196.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could that be it? < 1339922305 405020 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1339922309 829005 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Get off my Internet, I'll get sick. < 1339922317 917024 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Great Firewall is not enough to block your germs. < 1339922339 235158 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-196.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's okay < 1339922342 326440 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-196.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cold is a virus < 1339922417 795714 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :The term "germ" subsumes viruses X_X < 1339922450 839895 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-196.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I always assume germ was an alternative to bacteria < 1339922452 493172 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-196.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1339922460 549537 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you "assume" wrong. < 1339922467 384185 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-196.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I do < 1339922480 317849 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :The term "germ" applies to any small, disease-causing entity, be it a virus, bacteria, fungus, parasite or otherwise. < 1339922481 590190 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-196.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you learn stuff all the time < 1339922823 627665 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1339922833 524760 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :joo < 1339922842 277873 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about heavy metal atoms < 1339922905 685063 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Hmm ... actually, I'd say it's probably debatable whether it does or does not. But typically it's only used for things at least as "alive" as viruses. < 1339924190 72424 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.gameplox.com/2012/06/16/quoting-the-internet-playing-games-after-age-20-is-not-normal/ < 1339924265 604424 :derdon!~derdon@93.232.189.147 JOIN :#esoteric < 1339924313 908543 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would still like to point out that sitting alone in your room and watching movies, no matter what the scope of the matter, call it addiction or whatnot, is not normal for a man in his 20s. < 1339924383 888728 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would still like to point out that sitting alone in your room and reading books, no matter what the scope of the matter, call it addiction or whatnot, is not normal for a man in his 20s. < 1339924462 846065 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1339924543 568354 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-196.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would still like to point out that sitting alone in your room and plotting to kill everyone, no matter what the scope of the matter, call it addiction or whatnot, is perfectly normal for a man in his 20s. < 1339924550 2614 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :is she saying more generally that it's not normal to enjoy being alone? < 1339924652 726393 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-196.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know < 1339924676 98775 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-196.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I definitely communicate online more than face-to-face, but then again, I'm not really that normal < 1339924728 528640 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :same here < 1339925056 931503 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's pretty normal though < 1339925338 318428 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.imgur.com/yQN9j remember him? < 1339925594 258367 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder if when books got popular, people criticized them for replacing looking at real actors with real friends with sitting alone in a room and looking at symbols. < 1339925596 158669 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1339925599 691802 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a crock of shit < 1339925615 895798 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :video games are like a $65 billion a year global industry < 1339925617 542528 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps at some point people realize video games are way closer to chilling with your buddies than reading. < 1339925623 451709 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose all that money comes from teenagers and serial killers? < 1339925630 505726 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-196.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, they were criticised for destroying memory < 1339925632 582629 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and teenager serial killers < 1339925644 321848 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :not to mention serial teenager killers < 1339925648 614402 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :for destroying memory? < 1339925660 605514 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-196.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, as opposed to oral tradition < 1339925667 69656 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh books. < 1339925673 366867 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: $65 billion a year? Isn't Farmville about half of that? < 1339925674 109537 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought you meant video games < 1339925678 111275 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1339925679 664959 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-196.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh < 1339925744 792923 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zynga reported $311.2 million revenue in Q4 2011 < 1339925763 94582 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : i wonder if when books got popular, people criticized them for replacing looking at real actors with real friends with sitting alone in a room and looking at symbols. < 1339925785 566701 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know the Greeks said that writing would make everyone stop being able to remember things. < 1339925928 147238 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, but i'm referring to the social aspect, memory doesn't have much to do with serial killers. < 1339925961 830332 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dunno, I'm not really sure when books got popular as a form of entertainment. < 1339926027 188352 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if when marbles became popular, people criticized how they brewed competition and unfriendliness, unlike pushing a hoop with a stick down a dirt road. < 1339926064 33811 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh wait are we discussing that Breivik thing? < 1339926064 951638 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that's a bit off-topic < 1339926067 255561 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1339926090 725976 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :To be fair, apparently it was a shit translation. < 1339926107 958049 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just making stupid jokes *shrugs* < 1339926112 861912 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And what they were saying was more like "no, Anders, sitting alone in your room playing games does not prove you're not crazy". < 1339926150 666406 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi Gregor < 1339926154 713815 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :what time is it there < 1339926158 546352 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: pushing a hoop with a stick down a dirt road is trivial, and lets your brain be lazy. < 1339926161 664409 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not good. < 1339926167 316300 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: 5:45PM. I'mma go get food soon. < 1339926183 739905 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Is it? I actually have no idea how much skill is involved. Would depend on the exact shape of the hoop, I suppose. < 1339926186 284947 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats exactly 12 hours away < 1339926195 91891 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Yes, it is in the opposite timezone of EST. < 1339926197 234934 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: we have discussed this before < 1339926210 215286 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Yes. Yes we have. But I don't remember things 8-D < 1339926226 142525 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was logreading from last february < 1339926228 140727 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is something a 20 plus male can do instantly. < 1339926236 938376 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, no it fucking isn't. < 1339926252 952503 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well how dirty a road are we talking < 1339926264 824612 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember in school we got shown all these antique toys so we could see how miserable past children are and those things are impossible to keep upright. < 1339926266 220614 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover is the hoop-and-stick champion of Scotland. < 1339926279 346413 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that 'are' should be 'were'. < 1339926279 720324 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Naw, modern children are just stupid is all. < 1339926281 992856 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are? wtf < 1339926290 181406 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i seem to recall quite the opposit < 1339926292 48453 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :e < 1339926300 998330 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was reading about all the ridiculous ideas we had about a bfjoust scoring system before i came up with the one in the topic < 1339926308 6826 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You were probably using the Finnish version. < 1339926353 793993 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :you tried stilts and they were trivial with any kind of grip though, right? < 1339926399 960198 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-90-215.sta.asta-net.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1339926422 986235 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I've tried stilts, with or without a grip. < 1339926423 145880 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :obtw did you bring codu back up Gregor < 1339926446 639177 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jacks is the dumbest game ever, though. < 1339926458 480747 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :you haven't tried stilts? < 1339926462 488537 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :the fuck :D < 1339926465 208151 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah he did < 1339926466 876047 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :good < 1339926483 833652 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah jacks is kind of boring < 1339926519 58502 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean the game with the ball and the weird little murder tools? < 1339926592 801300 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes me think of that firefly episode < 1339926604 305356 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :a friend of mine wants to start playing go < 1339926612 804251 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it good? < 1339926629 972477 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :some think so < 1339926661 450807 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :chess is a horrible game, and i'm not sure i ever want to play it again < 1339926688 315935 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just kept wondering how I could upgrade my pawns to have a rocket launcher. < 1339926694 910679 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is alright < 1339926700 771777 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-196.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, you need to talk to kallisti for that < 1339926728 259777 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: chess is? < 1339926748 16436 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1339926768 375116 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that was my point, i wonder if it's very likely that go is more fun. < 1339926781 295439 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1339926784 398349 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably less < 1339926792 927494 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe consider arimaa < 1339926815 538606 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :consider continuous chess < 1339926818 522284 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that looks even more complicated than chess < 1339926821 346036 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :arimaa i mean < 1339926826 17679 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is < 1339926833 498723 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :go looks simpler < 1339926837 992361 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isnt < 1339926844 409823 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1339926848 807120 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :othello is simpler < 1339926851 687152 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :play that < 1339926858 741889 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :othello is nice < 1339926882 244575 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :play chess halo < 1339926925 556232 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, will consider chess halo < 1339926951 269435 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: doesn't go have like one rule < 1339926953 378947 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is hard to play on a tabletop < 1339926961 808162 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :put down shit and remove surrounded stuffs. < 1339926973 327710 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: yes but also a lot of traditions < 1339926983 787375 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does that mean? < 1339926984 506078 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :and heuristics < 1339926989 418352 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not part of the rules < 1339927000 945093 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :its stuff you have to know to play < 1339927009 584568 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the traditions are arguably part of the rules < 1339927024 844591 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but it's not part of the rules, i have nothing against learning theorems, it's complicated axioms i despise. < 1339927031 959386 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-90-215.sta.asta-net.com.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1339927033 175588 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, go is simple to describe, impossible to play well < 1339927074 476934 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :kind of like the integers < 1339927144 671686 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let f :: a -> Ord a => a -> Ordering; f = compare in f 1 2 < 1339927145 946544 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Could not deduce (GHC.Classes.Ord a) from the context () < 1339927146 127484 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a ... < 1339927149 200089 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let f :: a -> Ord a => a -> Ordering; f x y = compare x y in f 1 2 < 1339927150 501252 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : LT < 1339927209 586410 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-196.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That looks... < 1339927214 121898 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-196.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::? < 1339927570 211707 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-221-74.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1339928848 990395 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-196.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you do that? < 1339928855 960211 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-221-74.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1339928900 571290 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a GHC bug. < 1339928947 730380 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-196.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, you can but please never, ever do so. < 1339928995 379718 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1339929018 31934 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-196.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's possible to do that, but don't < 1339929022 910080 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-196.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it is wrong < 1339929028 718170 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-196.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And will be fixed eventually < 1339929106 475738 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which part are you talking about? < 1339929113 352047 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Both lines I gave should behave like the second one. < 1339929116 708662 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-196.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1339929129 728094 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-196.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking about the Ord a in the middle < 1339929135 395188 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's valid. < 1339929139 878204 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-196.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh < 1339930355 325330 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it just me or is #haskell way worse than it used to be? < 1339930479 897329 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-196.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Civilisation is a Shepard tone < 1339930501 278275 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-196.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Constantly seeming to decline, while remaining about the same < 1339930585 583347 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-196.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hell, it's like the tri-tone paradox < 1339930616 90680 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-196.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In that in different points of view, it appears to be either ascending or descending < 1339930622 889659 :MoALTz_!~no@host-92-8-237-103.as43234.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1339930710 824003 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric : obtw did you bring codu back up Gregor // If I'm online, Codu is up. < 1339930720 204744 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, monqy tswett MAJOR UPDATE < 1339930724 958893 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-196.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH NOES < 1339930785 329456 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-221-74.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1339930924 194019 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-127-153.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 , Skype: patashu0 . < 1339931354 613839 :derdon!~derdon@93.232.189.147 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1339931381 377759 :derdon!~derdon@p5DE8BD93.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1339931655 402907 :derdon!~derdon@p5DE8BD93.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1339931858 900776 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1339931866 855869 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Max SendQ exceeded < 1339931903 872666 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1339931968 652934 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-90-215.sta.asta-net.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1339932419 519498 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't understand how rm can take up 100% CPU for substantial amounts of time. < 1339932447 484484 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deleting is hard < 1339932497 224544 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :y delete 4? < 1339932525 432451 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<< brainfart < 1339932571 883243 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok heres what i think < 1339932601 914612 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the majority of data written to harddisks is largely unimportant < 1339932701 669770 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No shit. < 1339932714 638835 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<< more brain fart < 1339933250 330640 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :regarding: I would still like to point out that sitting alone in your room and X, no matter what the scope of the matter, call it addiction or whatnot, is Y for a man in his 20s. < 1339933323 907272 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :eventually such issues will dominate the world.. just as oil rose to signifigance < 1339933364 699887 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, it's still a relatively niche geek topic today, but tomorrow, we will realize it's a systemic crisis < 1339933444 565164 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-90-215.sta.asta-net.com.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1339933527 100082 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust space_elevator http://sprunge.us/BjYV < 1339933538 417824 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for quintopia_space_elevator: 63.4 < 1339933573 253905 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :only slight improvement yes, but adds one more + to its row < 1339933606 39944 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seinfeld 2012: the web surfers < 1339933715 546660 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia TOPIC #esoteric :NOW WITH EDIT WARS | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ (link down, see http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D for now) | This is what the bfjoust hill will look like under the new scoring system: http://sprunge.us/fePD < 1339933746 24806 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia TOPIC #esoteric :NOW WITH EDIT WARS | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ | This is what the bfjoust hill will look like under the new scoring system: http://sprunge.us/fePD < 1339933762 318718 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.facebook.com/LawlabeeTheWallaby/posts/3487379977305 // Latest, and possibly final, travel log entry! < 1339933976 447721 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah well < 1339933977 539801 :MoALTz!~no@host-92-8-236-213.as43234.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1339933982 619639 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can get an erhu next time < 1339933989 509016 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's really a lovely instrument < 1339933995 253412 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should get mine out < 1339934214 145210 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like the kazoo, the harmonica, the didgeridoo, the bagpipes, the ocarina (because of zelda), the piccolo (because of dragon ball), the organ, and the theremin < 1339934223 594284 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea what a kazoo is though < 1339934270 82871 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1339934286 612037 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does saying I sold more than 1,674 copies of a script in Second Life look good on a resume? < 1339934289 855479 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that plastic wind instrument made famous by the world cup < 1339934337 713044 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vuvuzela < 1339934349 138107 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats the one < 1339934361 160913 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you're pretty well obsessed with shitty instruments then. < 1339934528 452104 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-34-151-52.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1339934532 709201 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-144-142.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1339934846 138976 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup < 1339934968 524273 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would PSOX look terrible on a resume? < 1339935001 595957 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-196.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1339935351 880928 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust nanopoke >(>[(<[{}[-]](+)*25>)%21(++++>)*5(>(+)*21[-][+][-])*21]++)*28 < 1339935354 538141 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for quintopia_nanopoke: 8.2 < 1339935359 600187 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1339935367 910475 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust nanopoke >(>[(<[{}[-]](+)*25>)%21(++++>)*5(>(+)*30[-][+][-])*21]++)*28 < 1339935370 655266 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for quintopia_nanopoke: 9.0 < 1339935386 346301 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust nanopoke >(>[(<[{}[-]](+)*25>)%21(++++>)*5(>(+)*40[-][+][-])*21]++)*28 < 1339935389 90641 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for quintopia_nanopoke: 8.6 < 1339935408 772926 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust nanopoke >(>[(<[{}[-]](+)*40>)%21(++++>)*5(>(+)*30[-][+][-])*21][-]++)*28 < 1339935411 529760 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for quintopia_nanopoke: 10.9 < 1339935430 298898 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust nanopoke >(>[(<[{}[-]](+)*40>)%21(++++>)*5(>(+)*30[-][+][-])*21][-][+][-]++)*28 < 1339935432 915433 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for quintopia_nanopoke: 10.6 < 1339935443 8883 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust nanopoke >(>[(<[{}[-]](+)*40>)%21(++++>)*5(>(+)*30[-][+][-])*21]++)*28 < 1339935445 728530 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for quintopia_nanopoke: 10.1 < 1339935452 434068 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust nanopoke >(>[(<[{}[-]](+)*40>)%21(++++>)*5(>(+)*30[-][+][-])*21][-]++)*28 < 1339935455 244761 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for quintopia_nanopoke: 10.9 < 1339935541 57290 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust nanopoke >(>[(<[{(<[{}[-]](+)*10>)%17}[-]](+)*40>)%4(++++>)*5(>(+)*30[-][+][-])*21][-]++)*28 < 1339935543 747398 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for quintopia_nanopoke: 8.9 < 1339935626 281662 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust nanopoke >(>[(<[{(<[{}[-]](+)*40>)%4}[-]](+)*10>)%17(++++>)*5(>(+)*30[-][+][-])*21][-]+)*28 < 1339935628 947028 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for quintopia_nanopoke: 9.2 < 1339935634 922137 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust nanopoke >(>[(<[{(<[{}[-]](+)*40>)%4}[-]](+)*10>)%17(++++>)*5(>(+)*30[-][+][-])*21][-]++)*28 < 1339935637 622188 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for quintopia_nanopoke: 8.0 < 1339935650 100774 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust nanopoke >(>[(<[{(<[{}[-]](+)*30>)%4}[-]](+)*10>)%17(++++>)*5(>(+)*30[-][+][-])*21][-]+)*28 < 1339935652 866730 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for quintopia_nanopoke: 9.1 < 1339935661 193955 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust nanopoke >(>[(<[{(<[{}[-]](+)*30>)%4}[-]](+)*20>)%17(++++>)*5(>(+)*30[-][+][-])*21][-]+)*28 < 1339935663 784388 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for quintopia_nanopoke: 9.1 < 1339935686 760043 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust nanopoke >(>[(<[{(<[{}[-]](+)*30>)%7}[-]](+)*5>)%14(++++>)*5(>(+)*30[-][+][-])*21][-]+)*28 < 1339935689 310965 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for quintopia_nanopoke: 10.9 < 1339935922 968137 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust nanopoke >(>[(<[{(<[{}[-]](+)*20>)%17}[-]](+)*5>)%4(++++>)*5(>(+)*30[-][+][-])*21][-]+)*28 < 1339935925 686960 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for quintopia_nanopoke: 8.9 < 1339935932 138651 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust nanopoke >(>[(<[{(<[{}[-]](+)*40>)%17}[-]](+)*5>)%4(++++>)*5(>(+)*30[-][+][-])*21][-]+)*28 < 1339935934 680222 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for quintopia_nanopoke: 9.6 < 1339935946 554162 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust nanopoke >(>[(<[{(<[{}[-]](+)*40>)%17}[-]](+)*15>)%4(++++>)*5(>(+)*30[-][+][-])*21][-]+)*28 < 1339935949 149389 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for quintopia_nanopoke: 9.9 < 1339935963 147567 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust nanopoke >(>[(<[{(<[{}[-]](+)*40>)%17}[-]](+)*15>)%4(++++>)*5(>(+)*30[-][+][-])*21][-]++)*28 < 1339935965 807833 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for quintopia_nanopoke: 10.7 < 1339935984 962032 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust nanopoke >(>[(<[{(<[{}[-]](+)*40>)%17}[-]](+)*20>)%4(++++>)*5(>(+)*30[-][+][-])*21][-]++)*28 < 1339935987 563291 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for quintopia_nanopoke: 10.9 < 1339936302 959182 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your nanopoke is looking less nano by the instant. < 1339936400 387298 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i cant use "micropoke" because you did that first < 1339936456 871191 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-158.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1339936461 164879 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-158.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1339936472 305260 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust nanopoke >(>[(<)*5(<[{(<[{}--[-]](+)*40>)%17}--[-]](+)*20>)%4(++++>)*5(>(+)*30[-][+][-])*21][-]++)*28 < 1339936474 877691 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for quintopia_nanopoke: 9.8 < 1339936482 533906 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's amazing how many ties it forces < 1339936482 885825 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-158.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh no! < 1339936517 275355 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@time itidus21 < 1339936517 817763 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Local time for itidus21 is Sun Jun 17 22:33:50 < 1339936530 7899 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-158.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, buy a clock? < 1339936534 22794 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :well none of these variations is getting it a score high enough to stay on the hill < 1339936535 472771 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :activity: bfjoust spectator < 1339936543 140579 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's a pretty cool idea < 1339936659 599855 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust return_of_Gregor_micropoke (>)*9([ (<)*8(+)*85<(-)*85(>)*9 ([-]>)*21 ]>)*21 < 1339936662 330532 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for quintopia_return_of_Gregor_micropoke: 18.7 < 1339936665 365617 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1339936691 328171 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1339936842 568380 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust nanopoke >(>[(<)*5(<[{(<[{}[-]](+)*40>)%17}[-]](+)*20>)%4(++++>)*5(>(+)*30[-][+][-])*21][-]++)*28 < 1339936845 119075 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for quintopia_nanopoke: 10.4 < 1339936876 279653 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust nanopoke >(>[(<)*7(<[{(<[{}[-]](+)*40>)%17}[-]](+)*20>)%4(++++>)*7(>(+)*30[-][+][-])*21][-]++)*28 < 1339936879 90002 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for quintopia_nanopoke: 10.7 < 1339936944 846240 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1339937013 862097 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust nanopoke >(>[(<[{}[-]](+)*5>)%21(++++>)*5(>(+)*40[-][+][-])*21]++)*28 < 1339937016 458339 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for quintopia_nanopoke: 9.6 < 1339937028 547886 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust nanopoke >(>[(<)*5(<[{}[-]](+)*5>)%21(++++>)*5(>(+)*40[-][+][-])*21]++)*28 < 1339937031 121740 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for quintopia_nanopoke: 10.6 < 1339937038 607327 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust suicide [-] < 1339937042 410410 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for nortti_suicide: 12.7 < 1339937046 549882 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1339937051 439768 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bahaha < 1339937053 933175 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a very good suicide < 1339937060 892724 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust suicide [-.] < 1339937061 453534 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Better than your nanopoke ;) < 1339937064 594981 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for nortti_suicide: 13.0 < 1339937072 927213 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :suicide should also beat zoom < 1339937088 525781 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :anything that skips decoys < 1339937098 850051 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust lameomatic -*100000 < 1339937101 559945 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for Gregor_lameomatic: 10.0 < 1339937105 376742 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust nanopoke >(>[(<[{}[-]](+)*5>)%21(>(+)*40[-][+][-])*21]++)*28 < 1339937105 924470 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :SOLID < 1339937108 131516 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for quintopia_nanopoke: 8.9 < 1339937117 120804 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust suicide (-)*-1 < 1339937120 751361 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for nortti_suicide: 15.8 < 1339937129 367922 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :*-1? < 1339937132 617513 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does that do < 1339937132 777901 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust suicide (-.)*-1 < 1339937136 389960 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for nortti_suicide: 13.3 < 1339937140 689318 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: repeat infinitely < 1339937142 124309 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-158.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust awful . < 1339937143 539061 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1339937144 700148 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for Taneb_awful: 10.0 < 1339937153 682531 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::DDD < 1339937154 266963 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust nanopoke >(>[(<[{}[-]](+)*5>)%21+++++[>](>(+)*40[-][+][-])*21]++)*28 < 1339937156 895681 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for quintopia_nanopoke: 4.3 < 1339937162 848170 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1339937175 326940 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust terrible (>)*-1 < 1339937177 975013 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for Vorpal_terrible: 0.0 < 1339937180 472113 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1339937189 381483 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I beat you all, the lowest score < 1339937198 350742 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-158.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust awful2 < < 1339937201 79889 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for Taneb_awful2: 0.0 < 1339937205 489641 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :same score < 1339937209 252301 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-158.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shorter program < 1339937211 702119 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1339937244 268364 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust sitandspin (>[++++++++++++++++])*-1 < 1339937247 24161 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for quintopia_sitandspin: 17.5 < 1339937275 884435 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :not quite as good as micropoke < 1339937303 342101 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust sitandspin (>)*9(>[[++++++++++++++++]])*-1 < 1339937306 23735 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for quintopia_sitandspin: 15.9 < 1339937306 356707 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, you mean nanopoke? < 1339937312 790848 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust sitandspin (>[+++++++++++++++])*-1 < 1339937315 376178 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for nortti_sitandspin: 14.5 < 1339937319 909126 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust sitandspin (>[++++++++++++++++])*-1 < 1339937322 529250 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for nortti_sitandspin: 17.5 < 1339937326 78516 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust sitandspin (>[+++++++++++++++++])*-1 < 1339937328 693610 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for nortti_sitandspin: 11.2 < 1339937335 864908 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust sitandspin (>)*9(>+[++++++++++++++++])*-1 < 1339937338 578870 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for quintopia_sitandspin: 2.1 < 1339937341 955454 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1339937349 622464 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust sitandspin (>)*9(>[++++++++++++++++])*-1 < 1339937352 248992 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for quintopia_sitandspin: 15.9 < 1339937355 191458 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust sitandspin (>)*9(>[++++++++++++++++])*-1 < 1339937357 803917 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for quintopia_sitandspin: 15.9 < 1339937368 518726 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust sitandspin (>)*8(>[+++++++++++++++++])*-1 < 1339937371 283023 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for nortti_sitandspin: 11.4 < 1339937375 689273 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust sitandspin (>)*9(>[++++++++++++++++])*-1 < 1339937375 849371 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1339937378 432902 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for quintopia_sitandspin: 15.9 < 1339937398 760824 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust sitandspin (>)*9(>[++])*-1 < 1339937401 408111 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for quintopia_sitandspin: 15.7 < 1339937405 877276 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust sitandspin (>)*9(>[+++])*-1 < 1339937408 520065 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for quintopia_sitandspin: 17.3 < 1339937438 208828 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust sitandspin (>)*9(>[+++](+)*5)*-1 < 1339937440 882598 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for quintopia_sitandspin: 10.3 < 1339937518 345558 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust sitandspin (>)*9(>[+++])*-1 < 1339937521 69093 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for quintopia_sitandspin: 17.3 < 1339937749 541347 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu < 1339938491 821392 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust nanopoke >(-)*5(>[(<)*3(+)*15<<((+)*5[<{}])%28(+)*20[>]>(>[-][+][-])*28])*28 < 1339938494 620308 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for quintopia_nanopoke: 11.6 < 1339938542 854624 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust nanopoke >(-)*3(>[(<)*3(+)*15<<((+)*3[<{}])%28(+)*20[>]>(>[-][+][-])*28])*28 < 1339938545 472341 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for quintopia_nanopoke: 14.8 < 1339938588 936180 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust nanopoke >-(>[(<)*3(+)*15<<+[<{}])%28(+)*20[(+)*10>]>(>[-][+][-])*28])*28 < 1339938591 628197 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for quintopia_nanopoke: 0.0 < 1339938654 773643 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust nanopoke >-(>[(<)*3(+)*15<<(+[<{}])%28(+)*20[(+)*10>]>(>[-][+][-])*28])*28 < 1339938657 428694 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for quintopia_nanopoke: 12.9 < 1339938672 905881 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust nanopoke >--(>[(<)*3(+)*15<<(++[<{}])%28(+)*20[(+)*10>]>(>[-][+][-])*28])*28 < 1339938675 554256 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for quintopia_nanopoke: 11.3 < 1339938688 296675 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust nanopoke >-(>[(<)*3(+)*15<<(+[<{}])%28(+)*20[(+)*5>]>(>[-][+][-])*28])*28 < 1339938690 967837 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for quintopia_nanopoke: 14.2 < 1339938848 921112 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-158.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust im_not_very_good_at_this >(-)*3>(+)*5>(-)*7>(-)*11>(+)*13>(+)*13>(-)*17>(-)*23[>[-.]] < 1339938851 487781 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for Taneb_im_not_very_good_at_this: 0.2 < 1339938881 378791 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust nanopoke >-(>[(<)*3(+)*15<<(+[<{}])%28(+)*20[(+)*5>](+)*5>(>(+)*40[-][+][-])*28])*28 < 1339938883 945729 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for quintopia_nanopoke: 9.4 < 1339938892 81049 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust nanopoke >-(>[(<)*3(+)*15<<(+[<{}])%28(+)*20[(+)*5>](+)*5>(>(+)*9[-][+][-])*28])*28 < 1339938894 656691 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for quintopia_nanopoke: 12.7 < 1339938904 989657 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust CHAAAAAAARGE (>)*100 < 1339938907 648486 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for Gregor_CHAAAAAAARGE: 0.0 < 1339938912 358261 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1339938912 607844 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yesssssssss < 1339938927 778084 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust nanopoke >-(>)*5(>[(<)*3(+)*15<<(+[<{}])%28(+)*20[(+)*5>](+)*5>(>(+)*9[-][+][-])*28])*28 < 1339938930 499816 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for quintopia_nanopoke: 14.7 < 1339938953 919369 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-158.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could Taneb_im_not_very_good_at_this be the worst serious BFJoust program ever? < 1339939050 973414 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust i_dont_even --[-] < 1339939054 757458 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for Lumpio-_i_dont_even: 12.7 < 1339939058 862415 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehh < 1339939060 865662 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: It's just your terminal loop that's broken < 1339939137 813039 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: how can your program suck so hard? < 1339939173 834681 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust total_failure .*20< < 1339939176 479805 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for nortti_total_failure: 0.0 < 1339939188 455636 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust total_failure .*60< < 1339939191 142025 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for nortti_total_failure: 0.0 < 1339939199 780270 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust total_failure .*10000< < 1339939202 411480 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for nortti_total_failure: 0.0 < 1339939205 39034 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-158.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, I see < 1339939231 52709 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-158.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust im_not_very_good_at_this >(-)*3>(+)*5>(-)*7>(-)*11>(+)*13>(+)*17>(-)*19>(-)*23(>[-.])*100 < 1339939233 732173 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for Taneb_im_not_very_good_at_this: 16.0 < 1339939255 100296 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-158.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, that made the hill < 1339939317 647295 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-158.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think? < 1339939536 854580 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1339940233 50653 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1339940316 524421 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust nanopoke >-(>)*5(>[(<)*3(+)*16<<(+[<{}])%28(-)*40>(-)*40>(-)*40(>-[(>)*4(>[(+)*30[-]][+][-])*27](+)*30)*27])*28 < 1339940319 116064 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for quintopia_nanopoke: 33.5 < 1339940328 170850 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :hell yes < 1339940385 180491 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: nanopoke is my answer to ffspg. it uses the same strategy...but it's a one-liner < 1339940433 513675 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, the poke/breadcrumb part anyway. it doesnt do that crazy careless clear stuff.) < 1339940453 545823 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust headless_chicken (><)*50000 < 1339940456 244059 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for fizzie_headless_chicken: 12.5 < 1339940801 923169 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust muh (-)*127 < 1339940804 673678 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for mroman_muh: 14.2 < 1339940847 576230 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust muh (>+>-)*5(-)*127 < 1339940850 348727 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for mroman_muh: 0.1 < 1339940880 321616 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh come on. that is even worse than Taneb_im_not_very_good_at_this < 1339940888 1234 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well it is < 1339940898 708187 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_I_have_no_idea_how_the_fuck_this_works ;) < 1339940975 645589 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust muh_not_retarded (>+>-)*5([-.]>) < 1339940978 204437 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for nortti_muh_not_retarded: 0.0 < 1339940986 952190 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :forget it. < 1339940993 507306 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust muh_not_retarded (>+>-)*5([-.]) < 1339940996 160504 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for nortti_muh_not_retarded: 0.0 < 1339941003 281082 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :......... < 1339941026 189143 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust muh_not_retarded (>+>-)*5([-.]>)*-1 < 1339941028 908979 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for nortti_muh_not_retarded: 10.7 < 1339941147 881829 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust nanopoke >-->(-)*3(>)*6(>[(<)*3(+)*16<<(++[<{}])%28<(+)*30>(-)*40>(-)*40>(-)*40(>--[(>)*4(>[(+)*30[-]][+][-])*27](+)*30)*27]++)*28 < 1339941150 611691 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for quintopia_nanopoke: 29.5 < 1339941156 243930 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh < 1339941182 335366 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty good compared to older ones < 1339941186 397781 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust muh +[] < 1339941189 121638 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for mroman_muh: 10.2 < 1339941201 975798 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1339941214 722221 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust perkele + < 1339941217 321123 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for nortti_perkele: 10.2 < 1339941221 941402 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust perkele +. < 1339941224 539857 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for nortti_perkele: 10.2 < 1339941231 504915 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust perkele +.--. < 1339941234 203364 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for nortti_perkele: 10.2 < 1339941242 498332 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust perkele +..--.. < 1339941245 288971 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for nortti_perkele: 10.2 < 1339941250 251064 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm. < 1339941266 110048 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trailing '.'s are indeed the best, given that running off the end of the program does the same thing as '.'. < 1339941291 651365 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing? < 1339941295 227220 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1339941299 608659 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust muh >+[<+>] < 1339941302 253018 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for mroman_muh: 11.6 < 1339941387 322689 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust the_simplest_thing (>)*9([-.]>)*21 < 1339941389 845762 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for fizzie_the_simplest_thing: 22.7 < 1339941397 420260 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust perkele (>+)*8>([-]>)*20 < 1339941400 89913 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for nortti_perkele: 17.1 < 1339941424 926716 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust perkele (>+)*9([-]>)*20 < 1339941427 539532 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for nortti_perkele: 14.5 < 1339941447 486932 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust perkele (>+)*9>([-]>)*11 < 1339941450 177023 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for nortti_perkele: 1.6 < 1339941454 207798 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust perkele (>+)*9>([-]>)*12 < 1339941456 765414 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for nortti_perkele: 2.4 < 1339941458 268318 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust perkele (>+)*8>([-]>)*12 < 1339941460 933834 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for nortti_perkele: 3.6 < 1339941462 483724 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust perkele (>+)*8>([-]>)*11 < 1339941465 217746 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for nortti_perkele: 3.0 < 1339941466 831659 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust perkele (>+)*8>([-]>)*20 < 1339941469 507219 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for nortti_perkele: 17.1 < 1339941471 956399 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm. < 1339941477 621120 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust perkele (>+)*8>([-]>)*19 < 1339941480 414914 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for nortti_perkele: 15.1 < 1339941487 610975 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust perkele (>+)*8>([-]>)*21 < 1339941490 193260 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for nortti_perkele: 19.4 < 1339941493 188981 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust perkele (>+)*8>([-]>)*22 < 1339941495 775871 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for nortti_perkele: 19.7 < 1339941497 463707 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust perkele (>+)*8>([-]>)*23 < 1339941500 85662 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for nortti_perkele: 19.7 < 1339941501 844896 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust perkele (>+)*8>([-]>)*24 < 1339941504 511896 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for nortti_perkele: 19.7 < 1339941507 424361 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust perkele (>+)*8>([-]>)*-1 < 1339941510 82198 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for nortti_perkele: 19.7 < 1339941535 622614 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust perkele (>>+)*4>([-]>)*-1 < 1339941538 373983 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for nortti_perkele: 16.3 < 1339941546 150518 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust perkele (>->+)*4>([-]>)*-1 < 1339941549 200720 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for nortti_perkele: 20.2 < 1339941566 257580 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust perkele (>->+)*4>-([-]>)*-1 < 1339941569 874304 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for nortti_perkele: 6.7 < 1339941573 778389 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust perkele (>->+)*4>([-]>)*-1 < 1339941576 435545 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for nortti_perkele: 20.2 < 1339941578 944269 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust perkele (>->+)*4>([-.]>)*-1 < 1339941581 611646 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for nortti_perkele: 13.7 < 1339941608 850679 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust perkele (>->+)*4>([-]>)*10([-.]>)*-1 < 1339941611 568607 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for nortti_perkele: 11.8 < 1339941616 396861 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust perkele (>->+)*4>([-]>)*-1 < 1339941618 940716 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for nortti_perkele: 20.2 < 1339941621 992693 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust perkele (>-->+)*4>([-]>)*-1 < 1339941624 747040 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for nortti_perkele: 18.5 < 1339941627 343599 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust perkele (>->+)*4>([-]>)*-1 < 1339941630 22893 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for nortti_perkele: 20.2 < 1339941647 229891 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I'll stop botspamming for a moment < 1339941725 192608 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm. < 1339941733 753050 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does work in a query, too. < 1339941746 39465 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. good to know < 1339941771 842584 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And of course the hill + code are available for local testing, for that matter, but that involves more fiddling.) < 1339941794 515572 :tswett!~tswett@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: hey, do you know if there are any full body portraits of you floating around on top of the Internet? < 1339941816 295209 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_O < 1339941824 743188 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was the most terrifying question anyone has ever asked. < 1339941825 416372 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Clothing optional, I presume. < 1339941831 273401 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I'm just going to pretend I never heard it. < 1339941835 243361 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm. why isn't my program in the hill? < 1339941850 327336 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust muh (>)*9[[-]>] < 1339941852 992552 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for mroman_muh: 10.5 < 1339941882 592373 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :never mind. it is there! < 1339941928 125118 :tswett!~tswett@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The closest I've found is http://www.flickr.com/photos/tobiaswrigstad/3715548371/. But that's JUST NOT GOOD ENOUGH. < 1339941938 901343 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett, you saw the UPDATE, right? < 1339941942 658602 :tswett!~tswett@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: yep. < 1339941943 520625 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust muh (>)*4(+)*200[[-]>] < 1339941947 263247 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for mroman_muh: 0.8 < 1339941967 124033 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'm gonna stick with CoreWars :) < 1339941990 800518 :tswett!~tswett@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, the closest I've found is http://www.flickr.com/photos/tobiaswrigstad/3715548371/ + http://codu.org/chromates.jpg (NSFPWAE). Still NOT GOOD ENOUGH. < 1339941993 396593 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: or read bfjouds < 1339942001 6680 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :*bfjoust strategies < 1339942012 954601 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Maybe I should also read it :P) < 1339942027 585708 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust nanopoke >->(-)*5(>)*4(>[(<)*3(+)*16<<(+[<{}])%28>(-)*70<(-)*70>(>-[(>)*4(>[(-)*5([+{[(+)*9[-]]}[+]])%10[-]][+][-])*27](+)*30)*27]++)*25 < 1339942030 272574 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for quintopia_nanopoke: 12.4 < 1339942035 345749 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :sadface < 1339942036 357171 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: What does "NSFPWAE" stand for? < 1339942049 313353 :tswett!~tswett@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not safe for people who are eating. < 1339942069 625863 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-158.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :NSFWHOA < 1339942091 260742 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd just go with NSFP < 1339942096 241741 :tswett!~tswett@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION nods. < 1339942109 233112 :tswett!~tswett@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno. I'm not currently eating, and I find the photo perfectly lookable. < 1339942113 343976 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust nanopoke >->(-)*5(>)*4(>[(<)*3(+)*16<<(+[<{}])%28>(-)*50<(-)*50>(>-[(>)*4(>[(-)*5([+{[(+)*15[-]]}[+]])%10[-]][+][-])*27](+)*30)*27]++)*25 < 1339942116 85112 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for quintopia_nanopoke: 18.7 < 1339942122 11002 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1339942143 866066 :tswett!~tswett@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I think I'll resort to drawing this guy instead: http://marriageministries.net/images/Gardner%20full%20length.jpg < 1339942163 614257 :tswett!~tswett@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will become Deviantart's most accomplished Tim Alan Gardner portraitist. < 1339942252 262959 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1339942301 165749 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1047472701148&l=71244343ce < 1339942302 694861 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here ya go < 1339942304 967209 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :You sick, sick fuck. < 1339942332 336103 :tswett!~tswett@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ohh yes. YES. < 1339942345 850803 :tswett!~tswett@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ahhh... mmmm... < 1339942368 95158 :tswett!~tswett@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This cookie is DELICIOUS. < 1339942487 33648 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust nanopoke >->(-)*5(>)*4(>[(<)*3(+)*16<<(+[<{}])%28>(-)*50<(-)*50>(>-[(>)*7(>[(-)*5([+{[(+)*15[-]]}[+]])%10[-]][+][-])*27](+)*50)*27]++)*25 < 1339942489 700968 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for quintopia_nanopoke: 35.3 < 1339942547 143712 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :it scores well < 1339942553 872493 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it beats space_elevator >_> < 1339942578 362340 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND dreadnought < 1339942601 335340 :tswett!~tswett@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, the cookie's not that great. But I am deriving the most profound pleasure from this photograph. < 1339942888 600619 :tswett!~tswett@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, no, I'm finding the Tim Gardner photo a tad more usable. < 1339942897 606855 :tswett!~tswett@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you know what I mean. < 1339942948 687605 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: The alternative title for that photo is "Gardner in Purgatory" < 1339942997 20041 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust nanopoke >->(-)*5(>)*4(>[(<)*3(+)*16<<(+[<{}])%28>(-)*50<(-)*50>(>-[(+)*50(>)*7(>[(-)*5([+{[(+)*15[-]]}[+]])%10[-]][+][-])*27](+)*50)*27]++)*25 < 1339942999 644845 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for quintopia_nanopoke: 37.9 < 1339943003 932720 :tswett!~tswett@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: it is? < 1339943018 720070 :tswett!~tswett@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess purgatory must be, like, blank. < 1339943114 78392 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa there was a fizzie here < 1339943118 373609 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzieeeeeeeee < 1339943157 70367 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ask fizzie could you run clustering and decoy analysis on the current hill plox? < 1339943157 270145 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1339943171 634002 :MDude!~fyrc@67.232.231.162 JOIN :#esoteric < 1339943494 17429 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1339943513 80883 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-158.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello elliott. < 1339943518 205389 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-158.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you ever do that bit of thinking? < 1339943797 781946 :david_werecat!~david_wer@24-52-224-101.cable.teksavvy.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1339943862 71582 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi david_werecat < 1339943872 682789 :david_werecat!~david_wer@24-52-224-101.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1339943891 587701 :david_werecat!~david_wer@24-52-224-101.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see you improved space elevator < 1339944068 126680 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes < 1339944071 156168 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: no < 1339944081 38442 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-158.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1339944090 359891 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am waiting for your reply :P < 1339944130 119449 :david_werecat!~david_wer@24-52-224-101.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying, though my laptop has been overheating, giving BSOD's and performing poorly for the past week. < 1339944212 856083 :david_werecat!~david_wer@24-52-224-101.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also looks like I'll need to change the core of dreadnought if I want to gain any more gound. < 1339944337 776389 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: I ran the thingamajik. The page is updataded. (Though the clustering should really use other features than just the results, arguably.) < 1339944338 238053 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. < 1339944360 317792 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: whats the page < 1339944399 301954 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust nanopoke >->(-)*5(>)*4(>[(<)*3(+)*16<<(+[<{}])%28>(-)*50<(-)*50>(>-[(+)*50(>)*7(>[(-)*5([+{[(+)*15[-]]}[+]])%10[-]][+][-])*27](+)*50)*27]--)*25 < 1339944402 97262 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for quintopia_nanopoke: 34.1 < 1339944410 316469 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust nanopoke >->(-)*5(>)*4(>[(<)*3(+)*16<<(+[<{}])%28>(-)*50<(-)*50>(>-[(+)*50(>)*7(>[(-)*5([+{[(+)*15[-]]}[+]])%10[-]][+][-])*27](+)*50)*27]++)*25 < 1339944412 876044 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for quintopia_nanopoke: 37.9 < 1339944626 801255 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: http://zem.fi/egostats/ < 1339945150 469842 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: i think you could cluster on the number-of-wins-per-tape-length data < 1339946423 235856 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'll see if I can rope ais523 into arguing my side wrt quintopia's thread. < 1339946425 73353 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm too lazy to. < 1339946453 608021 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"On the other hand, everyone could just agree this is a pretty lame thing to do in most cases and preferentially treat those who innovate new strategies." This won't happen, since everyone tweaks constants anyway, and ais523 even has a program that does it for him, generically. < 1339946518 214887 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Ugh, you used
for paragraph breaks. < 1339948029 121682 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno who Tim Gardner is but he has classy threads. < 1339949470 912357 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I see you've had "Linux" "Torvalds" talk at "Wave". < 1339949534 442272 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :QWOP cosplay http://youtu.be/Z1TM90jWXKM < 1339949574 813656 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1339950014 512268 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yeah, I didn't bother attending though. Some people who were there said he didn't say anything terribly interesting. < 1339950076 488819 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"QWOP cosplay"..... what? ah this marks the beginning of the age of houses made of cellophane < 1339950115 502516 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^poorly stolen material < 1339950376 949969 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :A Den of Kittens http://youtu.be/RM5hQ3Qtf-8 < 1339951107 461276 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aww < 1339951666 866902 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: It seems like you missed http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MShbP3OpASA#t=49m50s, mostly. < 1339952220 28426 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, this is the afternoon talk, okay. There was a general-audience morning thing, too. < 1339952317 878915 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :He seems to be as polite as ever. < 1339952973 5610 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-158.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: bye < 1339953571 161203 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-158.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1339953580 419884 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-158.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1339953607 262979 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1339954736 606379 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-34-144-167.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1339954851 985444 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have this idea of a graphics format. Basically what you would expect from me. < 1339954931 486600 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-158.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Overlapping translucent polygons? < 1339954931 646775 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-144-142.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1339954950 479232 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :have i already said it before? < 1339954957 908533 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-158.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so < 1339954960 586056 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-158.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Was I close? < 1339954962 319666 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well polygons isn't the exact word < 1339955061 595267 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-158.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's /enclothe/ < 1339955079 629575 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1st datum = width. subsequent data are in pairs. the first datum in each pair is a colour. second datum is a 1d address in the image. < 1339955105 836907 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and at the address in that image, there is some arbitrary 1bit stamp drawn in the given colour < 1339955118 940252 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh.. 1bit transparency < 1339955170 648628 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the idea is to select some clever stamp/pattern i am unsure of the best term here.. with which to draw something < 1339955288 966779 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ideal behind it, which in practice is guaranteed to fail, is the idea that there might be some pattern of bits which when overlapped substantially can create useful images < 1339955442 941613 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1339955454 207824 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ill mock it up in a second < 1339955506 729075 :coppro!~scshunt@ascorbic-acid.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://submissions.epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/31659 < 1339955508 491786 :coppro!~scshunt@ascorbic-acid.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1339955787 703208 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-158.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's that huh meaning < 1339955861 251541 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is basically what i am saying, since what i said may have been too rambly http://oi48.tinypic.com/doul1d.jpg < 1339956188 856990 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah this pic really says it all < 1339956194 445404 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why i have problems. < 1339956364 869265 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess if i expanded it by allowing it to have a pallette of patterns of a fixed size, then i would be encroaching upony plagiarising many 8bit graphics systems! < 1339956418 848081 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a second there i thought you were doing tilings < 1339956462 999482 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's basically an open problem whether you can do something interesting from a single tile like that < 1339956465 871837 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i guess i am, except, overlapping tiles with transparent sections < 1339956504 543202 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, for instance whether there's a tile which gives only aperiodic tilings when you fill the plane with copies of it with no overlap < 1339956567 735021 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks for trying :D < 1339956575 55693 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :my supervisor proved a few years ago that if a tile doesn't tile periodically, its convex hull is basically a rectangle, iirc < 1339956584 358678 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks for trying? < 1339956608 50252 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok ok .. you seem to have time to spare ill tell you which words i didnt quite fathom < 1339956608 834118 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-221-74.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks for trying. < 1339956615 14550 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aperiodic < 1339956629 87897 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i understand filling a plane at least! < 1339956637 966004 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you mark the centers of your tiles, the pattern is not periodic < 1339956673 649441 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i assume you can guess what it means for a subset of Z^2 to be periodic < 1339956686 979563 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you give me too much credit < 1339956711 827040 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so.. Z^2 is 2d plane? < 1339956718 88408 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, X is periodic in direction v if X+v = X, where v is a vector and X+v means adding the vector v to each vector in X < 1339956727 63301 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Z^2 is the discrete 2d plane, yes < 1339956731 607561 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :the set of pairs of integers < 1339956805 391548 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :...and by X a subset of Z^2 being periodic i mean it has two vectors of periodicity that point in different directions < 1339956810 544214 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok so, skipping that for a second, can i assume that overlapping tiles are basically uninteresting? < 1339956823 450582 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i don't know what you can ask about those < 1339956836 208434 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps many things < 1339956837 808047 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok they're a weird thing < 1339956853 648941 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it's best i think about non overlapping < 1339956906 514315 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :non-overlapping is nice < 1339956925 561084 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have more than one tile, you can get turing machines and stuff < 1339956967 37179 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess that the overlap is actually Z^3 in disguise < 1339956994 625893 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps. iirc there's a single 3d tile which gives only aperiodic tilings. < 1339957000 740947 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's this weird cockroach thing < 1339957057 119811 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose it depends how you do it.. < 1339957072 665565 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but.. when overlapping the tiles.. its kind of 2.5d < 1339957148 14676 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't take me too seriouslt < 1339957156 865652 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am thinking about video games < 1339957160 916723 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are thinking about math < 1339957173 598604 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what else < 1339957178 50493 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhmm.. < 1339957202 238811 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok so Z^2 is discrete 2d plane.. < 1339957218 482175 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i had a bad math day, tried to prove this thing for 3 hours and came up with a counterexample < 1339957221 954177 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-( < 1339957264 610279 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah it's a plane alright < 1339957275 664520 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't actually know what you're saying about aperiodic tiling though < 1339957293 311190 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh uhmmm < 1339957311 396107 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess periodic tiling in Z^2 is the whole chessboard, game of life, tictactoe thing < 1339957314 987979 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :a tile is said to be aperiodic if whenever you fill the plane with it, you must have put your tiles in a pattern without a period. < 1339957385 998250 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :the blacks of the chessboard are a periodic subset of Z^2, yes (if you continue infinitely in all directions) < 1339957498 968213 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's fun for me to be taken so seriously. < 1339957537 871066 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will now explain what it is that i am trying to do. And it's mostly a thought exercize. < 1339957620 652116 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :using overlapping tiles in Z^2, with transparent areas, with 1 tile pattern but in different colours, to create images < 1339957703 98983 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, how about a 1x1 tile? < 1339957715 208207 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ya..! that can create any image < 1339957723 636788 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes you understand exactly < 1339957730 38003 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha.. < 1339957744 900206 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, let there be n colors < 1339957766 466099 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and let the rule be that when you have m overlapping tiles, the color is m mod n < 1339957773 302560 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, i can draw anything you like with any tile < 1339957789 466000 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if the tile was a 2x2 square.. then one such square could be drawn in red at (0,0) - (1,1) .. then another drawn over that in yellow at (1,1) - (2,2) and another drawn over that in red at (2,2) - (3,3) < 1339957806 104663 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and uh pardon the random notations < 1339957854 301366 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if the rule is that i'm allowed to put tiles anywhere on the Z^2 plane, and infinitely many) < 1339957859 869770 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1339957870 623742 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup < 1339957914 640129 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's my absurd way to describe an image < 1339957917 597466 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you see why it's possible to draw anything? < 1339957923 958994 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean < 1339957925 407349 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything < 1339957934 394413 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohhhh < 1339957948 303910 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean even a tile larger than 1x1 < 1339957960 637414 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1339957961 758064 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :since you can use just the top left < 1339957963 853334 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1339957967 531529 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah thats quite clever < 1339958021 151942 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, it's used all the time when working with group shifts < 1339958056 885377 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :although with polynomials so that it looks harder. < 1339958069 99094 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my motivations to think along these lines are really odd < 1339958126 230569 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are they? < 1339958136 479092 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i did it in a vain search for an underlying structure in 2d sprites < 1339958159 864820 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: oklopode < 1339958183 744537 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :que < 1339958188 966863 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1339958214 18799 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, some way to avoid the brute force method of drawing sprites < 1339958261 625475 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :something is wrong, the tunes log timezone seems to be on a whole hour... < 1339958327 657420 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: like i began this once by trying to use rectangles instead of patterns < 1339958355 190045 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no TOPIC #esoteric :NOW WITH ABSOLUTELY NO EDIT WARS | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ | This is what the bfjoust hill will look like under the new scoring system: http://sprunge.us/fePD < 1339958356 71162 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for some reason i grew tired of the rectangle idea. < 1339958383 684869 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the next idea i had was to represent an image as triangles < 1339958414 466449 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :rectangles are a symbol of the conformity of the bourgeoisie! < 1339958454 598614 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow i spelled it correctly < 1339958491 795164 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like i figured that i could map an entire bitmap to flatshaded non-overlapping rectangles < 1339958525 324402 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but when i tried to actually mock it up it all seemed awfully fiddly so i abandoned that < 1339958570 868668 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's that overlapping-polys genetic-programming image-approximation thing that floated around the web a while ago. Mostly because the images look kinda spiffy, not because it'd be an especially good way of doing images; it uses quite low amount of polygons to get the particular paintingy look. < 1339958576 630946 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a gallery at http://rogeralsing.com/2008/12/11/genetic-gallery/ < 1339958583 988388 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Has links to some of the earlier posts. < 1339958623 493066 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but by the time i start combining rectangles and bitmaps in one image i knew i was just recreating vector art < 1339958708 729997 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but no, i wanted a vector art married to a precise pixel resolution < 1339958972 646631 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :while they may not be much use in math, i think that overlapped tiles are great for game graphics.. and underexploited < 1339959049 907511 :coppro!~scshunt@ascorbic-acid.csclub.uwaterloo.ca TOPIC #esoteric :NOW WITH TONS OF EDIT WARS | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ | This is what the bfjoust hill will look like under the new scoring system: http://sprunge.us/fePD < 1339959101 679260 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@178235038077.elblag.vectranet.pl QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1339959172 297748 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yup those triangles are cool < 1339959198 901367 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-158.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1339959375 33543 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i just realized i didn't understand what you said about m and n at the time < 1339959395 182013 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it doesn't matter.. im looking over it a bit closer < 1339959497 776689 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no TOPIC #esoteric :NO EDIT WARS, I SAID | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ | This is what the bfjoust hill will look like under the new scoring system: http://sprunge.us/fePD < 1339959573 299994 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mind=blown < 1339959681 371157 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: the important question is would you like to use a paint program based on that principle :P < 1339959696 707583 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a monstrosity to be sure < 1339959706 410109 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric : >:-) < 1339959721 394653 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :totally, like 24/7 < 1339959744 279252 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have to implement it one day < 1339960001 925929 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would just be the strangest thing ever < 1339960083 617641 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm selling it short here, but one thing it hints at is a paint program where you click on a pixel to iterate it's colour < 1339960108 463613 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i haven't used a mac though.. maybe they done this < 1339960177 489985 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1339960179 710567 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :infact you could just use the mousewheel < 1339960190 675864 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like mousewheel < 1339960389 545359 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: so one concept arrived at is the idea of a paint program where, suppose its a black and white image.. you left click to toggle the pixel.. < 1339960435 29380 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-34-144-167.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mkdir: cannot create directory `/home/pikhq/src/bootstrap-linux/work/gcc-build': File exists < 1339960438 52377 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-34-144-167.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :YAAAAY < 1339960456 712410 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :using two buttons you could iterate the colour of the pixel in 2 directions over a small pallette < 1339960557 933865 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm i'd assume there are paint programs which allow this already, although maybe not with a single click. but then again, some allow you to write scripts, so you can probably _make_ it a single click. < 1339960567 722737 :Nisstyre!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1339960589 152685 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is the fruit of combining ideas with oklopol < 1339960590 495524 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is really thinking of gimp here, which he played a bit with, years ago < 1339960639 714537 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not only this.. you would also have a custom "stamp/tile pattern" tool you could draw.. and this would mean you could iterate the colours in a region < 1339960720 626730 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also something which you would imagine a script could do < 1339960736 265349 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1339960796 378879 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact i vaguely recall a program which _did_ allow such tiling < 1339960803 822796 :Nisstyre!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre JOIN :#esoteric < 1339960820 785232 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably was either gimp or xdvi < 1339960840 186672 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was an option for the copy/paste command < 1339960872 705285 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1339960873 602847 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: Yes that is one thing to do, to make the button iterate over a palette < 1339960874 943998 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*xfig < 1339960912 424099 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But probably better is to push the keys on the keyboard to switch the mode, and then depending on the mode it decides what the three mouse buttons do < 1339960931 196036 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :xdvi was the program to show the result after embedding and running it through latex < 1339960953 547865 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :xdvi is a DVI previewer. < 1339960959 624655 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1339960966 716223 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :When on Linux I use that. On Windows I use dviout < 1339960997 204042 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then to print the DVI file on Linux, you can use the command dvilj4 or one of the related programs < 1339961022 48545 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :On Windows, to print the DVI file select it from the menu < 1339961033 15598 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hummmm < 1339961047 540754 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deluxe Paint is I think the program all pixel artists love and adore and speak good things about. It does all kinds of stamp-pattern stuffs. < 1339961054 140106 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow oklopol solved the wohle problem < 1339961058 461811 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^whole < 1339961068 162975 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, i used xfig for all my thesis pictures, it allowed embedding latex in them without having to code the picture itself in latex < 1339961079 132074 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and stencils and whatnot. < 1339961128 125173 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is another way to include pictures in TeX documents without using any DVI specials; I have written a program for that purpose. It only accepts ASCII PBM format as input but you can convert into that format with ImageMagick. < 1339961176 945449 :Nisstyre!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1339961293 816744 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what we have come up with, which exceeded my plans, is that you can have a bitmap file format by having nothing more than a list of coordinate addresses for a 1bit stamp/pattern which will be used to iterate a palette < 1339961329 869029 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would seem a pretty bad format although it would work < 1339961387 799437 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here is a program to include pictures in a TeX document: http://sprunge.us/QZFg < 1339961415 255959 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i must share credit for it with everyone who participated since my initial post about " I have this idea of a graphics format. Basically what you would expect from me." < 1339961424 251304 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but woohoo it is done < 1339961440 654829 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least it is done. < 1339961452 350956 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and better than i imagined < 1339961848 463743 :Nisstyre!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre JOIN :#esoteric < 1339962026 673365 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does the IFC and IFR fields work in the .IT format? < 1339962041 107067 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: how should paragraph breaks be done inside of a bfjprog? enter-twice undoes the insetting of the template. < 1339962065 73361 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: see the 2011 section, or the 2012 section now that i fixed it < 1339962075 233532 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1339962147 538359 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What else I don't know is how do they switch between pitch/filter envelope? < 1339962436 778607 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :realizing nothing at all has been achieved is htat it's paintfuck with stamps < 1339962461 61601 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe thats more than nothing < 1339962600 634822 :my53|f!~kvirc@ppp-4-138.28-151.libero.it JOIN :#esoteric < 1339962629 869841 :my53|f!~kvirc@ppp-4-138.28-151.libero.it QUIT :Client Quit < 1339962697 174865 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm bluetooth is pretty much standard in every modern laptop and netbook right? Why is on-board bluetooth on desktops not common (at least I never heard of it) < 1339962751 150658 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not having on-board wifi is more reasonable, after all a desktop is (or at least used to be) connected by ethernet. But bluetooth mice and so on are not uncommon < 1339963241 201081 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just ignore the IFC and IFR fields (and in fact the midi ones after them), so I don't know what they're for. < 1339963287 382064 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, surely there must be a spec somewhere that explains it? < 1339963317 321682 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :also in what context did you ignore it? Did you implement a tracker? < 1339963341 95135 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I have a player, and the official spec is not very complete. < 1339963353 138203 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1339963373 70226 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :look at the source of modplugplay or something like that? < 1339963399 847490 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, also your player, does it do anything modplugplay doesn't? < 1339963402 858315 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't care to. Anyway, libmikmod sources are what I've used to fill in the blanks. < 1339963406 307072 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so, where can I download? < 1339963407 938302 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Looking at the ModPlug Tracker, it seem they might be for the cutoff and resonance but I do not know how they are used. It also doesn't explain how to switch the envelope between filter/pitch (an option in ModPlug). < 1339963436 625421 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am trying to make a program to write .IT file < 1339963461 821413 :function!~root@freebsd/developer/variable NICK :const < 1339963472 30288 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You can't download it anywhere, it certainly doesn't do anything extra except it's only two kilobytes or so and meant for converting an IT file to a self-playing executable. < 1339963519 765081 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1339963521 167623 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1339963536 66810 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, self playing? So what output device does it use? < 1339963546 8550 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(please please let it use the pc speaker) < 1339963582 400287 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It was for a friend who wanted to participate in an executable music competition.) < 1339963590 649908 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :/dev/dsp, if I recall correctly. < 1339963611 683981 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm looks like I need to order a new SIM card. I need a micro sim for my next phone. Which is kind of amusing since it will be significantly larger than my current phone, why would it need a micro sim rather than a mini sim... < 1339963615 69769 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's one of those libc-less things, I wanted to have some fun writing it too. < 1339963621 175174 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1339963638 93262 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's just packed full of SO MUCH other stuff < 1339963639 421290 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It's in x86-32 asm for the same reason.) < 1339963649 696110 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, well probably, it is a Samsung Galaxy S3 < 1339963661 31497 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and currently I have a small keypad phone so < 1339963661 955305 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1339963666 13484 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1339963691 147417 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :still it doesn't save that much < 1339963703 438030 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't like full sized sim -> mini-sim < 1339963707 771300 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was a much larger change < 1339963774 714810 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm apperently there is also nano SIM < 1339963785 39031 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :4.8 inch screen ... and a normal thumb is like 2 inches < 1339963801 885814 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, you don't want your thumb to cover the entire screen surely < 1339963819 821278 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I used another device of similar size and had no issue with it < 1339963845 303835 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a Samsung Galaxy Nexus. The S3 is like 4 mm wider or something) < 1339963859 745737 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I usually use my thumb for input while using the rest of my hand to hold the phone < 1339963865 141215 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1339963868 805664 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :but maybe you hang the phone on the wall and use it like LCARS < 1339963875 390290 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :LCARS? < 1339963876 747158 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is that < 1339963906 885545 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's that ridiculous touch interface they use in star trek < 1339963929 261685 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, which generation? < 1339963938 239423 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :TNG and on < 1339963940 273994 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1339963941 721652 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1339963979 848017 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :vat ja ty■ll■■n el■v■t h■visiv■t. < 1339963987 452204 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti, that looks broken? < 1339963993 886846 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrong paste < 1339963994 645627 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :the galaxy nexus is like too big to be a phone but too small to be a tablet < 1339964006 146638 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/14/britain-unveils-electroni_0_n_1597529.html < 1339964010 39076 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe due to apple lawsuit actions they can't make it the same size as the iphone? < 1339964013 971409 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is the correct one < 1339964015 485770 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, anyway I can't really use the thumb for on-screen keyboard for phones, I tend to put my thumb over several keys. I have large hands < 1339964061 953590 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: there's an OMG BIG PHONES trend on at the moment < 1339964064 1000 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at leats there was < 1339964069 249663 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, my thumb is ~7.5 cm (~2.95 inches) < 1339964071 188513 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: If it's cutoff/resonance, then it's part of the filter thing that's very badly documented, and e.g. modplug does/did it wrong; it has some not-in-the-manual 'Z' effects to control it too. It's some standard second-order IIR filter that it has. < 1339964073 311086 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(length that is) < 1339964073 470985 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: OH REALLY? < 1339964108 328717 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I predict that in 5-10 years we will be approaching the size of the early phones. Like small bags < 1339964120 601362 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: The formulas are documented in http://wiki.multimedia.cx/index.php?title=Impulse_Tracker#Resonant_filters if you really want to support them. < 1339964138 199857 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, anyway how can you do multitouch by just using your thumb < 1339964139 47004 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :!? < 1339964158 624559 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :my thumbs are magic < 1339964168 238802 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they have limited range < 1339964168 657351 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh okay < 1339964181 229169 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, I guess you just have small hands < 1339964201 451672 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: My program is meant for writing .IT musics not for playing them. < 1339964202 998955 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It's not the size of the hand..." < 1339964241 385919 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think my hands aren't small, they're just not big enough to comfortably use the whole screen of a modern smartphone < 1339964243 828297 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Well, yes, but if you want to support setting those values in some reasonable units, like Hz. < 1339964248 221615 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can type on my HTC Wildfire with my thumbs just fine. but then again I use GKOS keyboard < 1339964257 563197 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, from left ctrl on a full size standard PC keyboard (where left ctrl is the key in the bottom left corner, no funny fn-key stuff) how far can you reach? I can reach p comfortably with my right hand (thumb on ctrl, little finger on p) < 1339964264 381369 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :å I can reach if I stretch < 1339964271 679081 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-158.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1339964320 921778 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yes, OK < 1339964322 573605 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i'm looking at your reformatting, should a word in the introduction be bolded when it's really another article with a subset of the current name? < 1339964327 229274 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti, what is the GKOS? I tend to use swype on phones < 1339964331 309557 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-158.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1339964344 345389 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: 6 key chordede keyboard < 1339964352 314812 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti, heh < 1339964363 82976 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I can reach +åä- if I try < 1339964366 499063 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well I believe that is what WP's MOS states < 1339964372 389697 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, +-? < 1339964373 180196 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it's a bit of an edge-case here < 1339964382 861482 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, ä is easy to reach for me < 1339964387 549690 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :å is a bit harder < 1339964390 397652 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but actually the touch version has 12 keys < 1339964393 620626 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: see here: < 1339964402 609397 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, MOS? < 1339964409 310399 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Lead_section#Format_of_the_first_sentence < 1339964410 997121 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: manual of style < 1339964413 557230 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1339964420 464832 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, thought it was a weird typo for TOS < 1339964421 603823 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1339964454 691306 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1339964456 642098 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: anyway, it's not a question of stuff being completely unreachable < 1339964457 706678 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti, hm < 1339964458 802820 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't seem to be covered there < 1339964461 139565 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me see < 1339964463 751703 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, oh? < 1339964471 351709 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: more that reaching the other end of the screen at the same time as holding the device is tricky and uncomfortable < 1339964492 29983 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: so you can easily simulate pressing 5 keys with your thumbs < 1339964498 293992 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Also, that document does not explain the purpose of the IFC and IFR fields. < 1339964499 158061 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, well yes, but I can't type using just the thumb on a non-keypad phone anyway. I can scroll just fine with my thumb though < 1339964499 914136 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the problem is trivially solvable by not making the phone ridiculously big for no reason in the first place < 1339964510 826288 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, so yeah I don't think using such a phone is an issue. < 1339964521 819224 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, hey HD video! < 1339964528 868894 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't make pixels that small < 1339964530 163275 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: um "If the article's exact title is absent from the first sentence, do not apply the bold style to related text that does appear:" seems clear enough < 1339964546 943570 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes, which is why that was the wrong thing to cite, I've definitely read otherwise elsewhere < 1339964549 404343 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps it was changed recently < 1339964553 929839 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :~320 DPI is about max currently AFAIK (unless you go for electronic ink stuff) < 1339964556 275331 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you will get some kind of RSI due to using your phone and then you will realize I am right < 1339964569 906766 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, I'm likely to use both hands if I'm typing < 1339964580 261271 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't see why I should use just one hand for that anyway < 1339964600 68369 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Excuse me, sir, could you hold my phone while I use both my hands to type an SMS to my friend?" < 1339964606 101484 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, what? < 1339964612 703247 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: in fact i read that section recently, which may be why your edit triggered my protest < 1339964615 854068 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, you hold it with one hand and type with the other? < 1339964622 13336 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are you talking about < 1339964632 437856 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you could just undo it < 1339964638 939460 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no, that would be silly < 1339964639 775574 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*MWAHAHAHAHA* < 1339964648 422133 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, would it? < 1339964656 515485 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is how I always done it on touch screens < 1339964724 994491 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1339964754 348055 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, anyway, you need to do it like that anyway when you use google maps or such < 1339964759 200804 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to multi touch < 1339964770 650183 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like you'd have to use it like lcars then, holding your whole arm up to let your hand hover above the screen < 1339964788 126148 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :... stop being silly < 1339964793 521307 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, you have to do that anyway for multi-touch < 1339964797 576206 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Lead_section&oldid=449845029#Format_of_the_first_sentence does not have that wording < 1339964801 515236 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :as of september 2011 < 1339964806 583470 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it is clearly a new addition < 1339964811 393838 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, what about multi touch keyboard input? < 1339964824 780705 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's that? < 1339964833 519745 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure, it sounds awesome though < 1339964841 732039 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure it exists < 1339964861 614601 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey you know what, a Datahand hooked up to your phone, that would be ergonomic < 1339964883 741646 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me just test something < 1339964898 76866 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I *think* that they give the cutoff/resonance values for (0..127, and then one bit designates if it's used or not; maybe modplug code can make this clear?) and then (if enabled) the filter gets applied to the output of a channel when notes of the corresponding instrument are played on it. < 1339964913 84226 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(But I'm certainly not sure.) < 1339964938 364327 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The version of mikmod I have here just ignores them. The filters are kind of a late addition. < 1339965040 500304 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :One-handed operation is I think a frequently considered use case when it comes to smartphone UI design. (It's probably best not to ponder what the other hand is doing.) < 1339965060 343783 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, anyway the solution is obvious. Make the keyboard just take up like the left or right half of the screen < 1339965066 410044 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than the full width < 1339965069 994442 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that solves the issue < 1339965071 119154 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, with a small screen you can use one hand for everything that only relies on single touches... with a big screen you either need to contort your hand to reach or you need to switch grip entirely and use both hands < 1339965093 633692 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-158.as13285.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1339965132 721218 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not just typing (besides, that's ridiculously painful regardless), but e.g. dragging down the notification bar requires reaching the very top of the screen < 1339965141 618328 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there may be other interactible elements there too < 1339965177 449209 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a bit disappointed that the iPod doesn't do sidetalking. It would be the absolute best, with a device of that size. < 1339965186 752571 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, true, just tilt the screen and it is way closer XD < 1339965207 875743 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you have my blessing to rever tthat bolding anyway < 1339965246 548033 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone should make a banana-shaped phone where everything is within thumb reach < 1339965251 866442 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-160-244.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1339965256 522710 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also yesterday I witnessed a credit card payment made by sticking a credit card into a small square box stuck at the bottom of an iPod, and then "signing" the receipt by finger-writing on the screen. < 1339965263 626122 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was so 2012. < 1339965307 362484 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: there seems to be a lot of discussion about this stuff in recent talk page archives < 1339965343 307923 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the bold is ugly, at least :P < 1339965370 122098 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-34-144-167.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: That's like two year old tech. :) < 1339965375 551076 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is also a mention of a specific rule not to bold text with links in :P < 1339965381 977664 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-34-144-167.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, you'd be kinda amused how that works. < 1339965386 725427 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was done with http://www.izettle.com/ who reportedly have a kinda funky business model; they give out the card reader for free, and don't have any monthly contract subscription prices; they just take a cut (1%? 2%?) of the transaction. It's designed for very low-volume users. < 1339965415 529903 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-34-144-167.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The square box is a magnet read head wired to the audio in jack. < 1339965444 529308 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, heh < 1339965450 715801 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're a "social payments company". < 1339965478 968314 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :why doesn't it simply use the code? < 1339965483 973588 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust brachiation >->(-)*5(>)*4(>[(<)*3(+)*16<<(+[<{}])%28>(-)*50<(-)*50>(>-[(-)*50(>)*7(>[(-)*5([+{[(+)*15[-]]}[+]])%10[-]][+][-])*27](+)*50)*3 (>-[(+)*50(>)*7(>[(-)*5([+{[(+)*15[-]]}[+]])%10[-]][+][-])*27](-)*50)*24 ]++)*25 < 1339965485 499182 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :PIN code that is < 1339965485 932401 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, it talks to the chip so it's not a magnet-stripe reader. < 1339965488 480799 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for quintopia_brachiation: 36.7 < 1339965505 668398 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, is the magnet stripe still used? < 1339965509 648602 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-34-144-167.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You weird Europeans, with your smart cards in the chip. < 1339965513 725825 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc it isn't in Sweden < 1339965517 678271 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-34-144-167.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, chips in the card. < 1339965529 971853 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really know why it doesn't do the PIN thing. Maybe it's explained on the page. < 1339965531 826818 :david_werecat!~david_wer@24-52-224-101.cable.teksavvy.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1339965533 613341 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust nanopoke < < 1339965536 448678 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for quintopia_nanopoke: 0.0 < 1339965544 330943 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-34-144-167.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the US, bank cards generally *only* have magnetic stripes. < 1339965567 819926 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-34-144-167.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because upgrading infrastructure is for squares. < 1339965584 310935 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, hey in Sweden if there is any fraud related to a card reader in a shop using the magnet strip rather than the chip they bear the full financial responsibility for it < 1339965597 391990 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :after they made that change everyone switched very quickly < 1339965658 940258 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-34-144-167.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Doesn't do you any good if nobody *has* cards with chips. < 1339965668 925389 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, well everyone does over here < 1339965680 197726 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, haven't seen one without a chip for over 15 years by now < 1339965687 905607 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember them from when I was like 5 years old < 1339965690 901409 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but since then? Nope < 1339965692 391830 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It used to be so that you could read the mag-stripe info out of the chip without knowing the PIN, and then use that to print a stripe-only clone card and (ab)use it elsewhere. That I think got some sort of a fix already, though. < 1339965710 449553 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like what < 1339965714 972154 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :A magnetic strip is completely passive < 1339965727 519638 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-34-144-167.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, rolling those out would probably screw up the tactic of literally mailing credit cards to people that you only need to call to activate. < 1339965729 65119 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the keys should be on the card itself < 1339965731 488468 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you create a copy of it, and the machine only reads the strip, it shouldn't be able to tell the difference < 1339965737 138502 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and display of the sum < 1339965747 70975 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that way you could completely prevent fraud < 1339965754 502967 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't see how you could do that otherwise < 1339965761 577677 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: cards should clearly have a private key on them < 1339965766 239289 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Somebody already made cards with build-in displays and keypads < 1339965771 937993 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're not widely used yet though. < 1339965772 193167 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : Of course, rolling those out would probably screw up the tactic of literally mailing credit cards to people that you only need to call to activate. <-- huh what? < 1339965775 304701 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and produce pgp-signed digital cheques < 1339965779 984228 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually that sounds like a good idea < 1339965785 73397 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, indeed, that would work < 1339965786 309765 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lumpio-: Yes, but they fixed the part where you can ask the chip for the mag-stripe data without the PIN, so it can't get cloned just by sticking the chip part somewhere. < 1339965793 420376 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cheques? I haven't seen one of those in... actually I've never seen one being used in a normal transaction < 1339965796 3118 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, then your bank could verify that < 1339965797 743444 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gifts and awards only < 1339965804 79127 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-34-144-167.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You get mailed credit cards in your junk mail. Call to activate. I shit you not. < 1339965817 428 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, US. You shit the rest of the world < 1339965821 722693 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lumpio-: well a "digital cheque" is just a cryptographically signed message containing a number :P < 1339965823 200474 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: What if you read the mag-stripe part off the stripe < 1339965833 451273 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It's still a foreign word to me. < 1339965839 617295 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-34-144-167.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lumpio-: They're *rare*, but certainly in use in the US. < 1339965849 370025 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :bonus is that people would get phone attachments that let them plug into digital cheque acceptors and then people will steal phones for the cash < 1339965855 907406 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmmmm < 1339965864 415428 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seen cheques being used < 1339965866 988425 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because of course nobody will think to require putting a password on the private key < 1339965872 713061 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or if they do < 1339965874 427760 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ages ago though < 1339965876 681683 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they'll add a "remember password" button < 1339965882 644912 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-34-144-167.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're either using it to pay an individual or really small entity without a card reader, or because you're really old. < 1339965900 883961 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-34-144-167.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or to mail money, I guess. < 1339965901 44309 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, :D < 1339965903 825296 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JgDWMh2D0b8 the video is a bit dumbed-down but something like this < 1339965906 848098 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would be pretty neat < 1339965921 883473 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lumpio-: Then you can obviously copy it. But this was in context of non-noticeable card-cloning dealies on top of an ATM, where you can't just tell people to swipe the card instead. < 1339965922 966086 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't verify the sum though. < 1339965932 703806 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, yeah I had cheques mailed to me by an elderly aunt for birthdays < 1339965933 683687 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway the design of credit cards are stupid as hell, what else is new < 1339965954 435262 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, like everything that was made before fast ubiquitous interwebs < 1339965956 746676 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's based on trust. < 1339965959 787471 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, only a couple of years ago she started just going to the bank office and doing the transaction directly < 1339965963 254900 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not the only thing either < 1339965964 969247 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Think e-mail < 1339965966 981600 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust brachiation >->(-)*5(>)*4(>[(<)*3(+)*16<<(+[<{}])%28>(-)*50<(-)*50>(>-[(-)*50(>)*7(>[(-)*5([+{[(+)*15[-]]}[+]])%10[-]][+][-])*27](+)*50)*3 (>-[(-)*50(>)*7(>[(-)*5([+{[(+)*15[-]]}[+]])%10[-]][+][-])*27](-)*50)*24 ]++)*25 < 1339965969 547919 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for quintopia_brachiation: 37.6 < 1339965974 811406 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-34-144-167.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Which is really insanely hard to do in the US for some reason. < 1339965978 812066 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :In its plainest form, no authentication built-in whatsoever < 1339965984 189813 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, what is? < 1339965990 113525 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, going to the bank office? < 1339965996 818344 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-34-144-167.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Depositing into someone else's account. < 1339965998 211166 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :she doesn't have internet afaik < 1339966001 751680 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1339966004 135802 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Why is it hard o_O < 1339966005 796854 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, how/why is it hard? < 1339966009 902695 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-34-144-167.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lumpio-: I don't know! < 1339966021 757892 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, how is it hard? < 1339966030 970674 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can easily do that from my internet bank < 1339966031 613335 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: transfers to other accounts arent that hard? < 1339966038 154267 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here you just go to your bank's website, enter their account number (it also identifies the country and bank these days), a sum and click "ok" < 1339966056 658188 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :...you can also do it by filling in a form and leaving it at the bank physically if you're a computer-challenged person < 1339966067 963320 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lumpio-, and then you get a challenge code that you enter on your hard certificate device and you enter the reply code on the bank website < 1339966072 300780 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't forget that step < 1339966076 583141 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is a card reader thingy < 1339966084 356131 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Our "hard certificate device" is a one-time pad of numbers < 1339966088 688978 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the hard certificate, so you put your bank card in it) < 1339966091 562391 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :You get from the bank < 1339966093 507247 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and use your PIN code) < 1339966098 920054 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lumpio-, we get ours from the bank too < 1339966106 673228 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :At any rate that isn't hard either. < 1339966113 103844 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah but here they're like < 1339966114 433730 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is just that it is a card reader and works by challenge-response < 1339966116 221972 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Literal one time pads < 1339966120 16430 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Made of paper < 1339966121 165379 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1339966131 846061 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lumpio-, that sounds stupid. Someone could just steal that pad < 1339966138 472343 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, they could. < 1339966147 444465 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :where in my case they would need to steal my bank card and my PIN < 1339966149 587967 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is why having a PIN authenticator would be neat but I don't think they do that yet. < 1339966163 436331 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :...they'd also need your password though < 1339966171 589271 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which you're supposed to memorize (but I bet most people just write it on the pad) < 1339966191 28966 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lumpio-, here it all works by the challenge-response thingy. Even login. < 1339966203 987640 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they could add a password as well, that would be good < 1339966216 294045 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't the PIN enough < 1339966224 921797 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The more passwords you have the more likely are people to write them down < 1339966246 87130 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :just 4 digits. Hrrm < 1339966258 19146 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the challenge response code is like 10 digits iirc? < 1339966276 232952 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Okay, iZettle uses chip-and-sign because PCI only certifies separate chip-and-pin terminal devices with their own PIN entry keypads, and certainly won't appreciate iPad apps. < 1339966276 672460 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Longer PIN! < 1339966290 21628 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most cards lock out after 3 incorrect tries don't they < 1339966306 195401 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, PCI? As in the PCI bus? < 1339966308 102135 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :1/3333 chance of getting it right (actually it's higher since they won't let you use some PINs like 1111) < 1339966341 514100 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lumpio-, my bank doesn't let me change PIN. Good idea really < 1339966349 966809 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you have to learn whatever PIN they give your card < 1339966353 310654 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-34-144-167.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Wire transfers cost money, and going through ACH allows the recepient to withdraw from your account. < 1339966365 332236 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, what is ACH? < 1339966375 436089 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :isnt there a middle ground < 1339966393 878545 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wut, draw from your account? < 1339966398 768491 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: As in the Payment Card Industry Security Standards Council who defined PCI-DSS. < 1339966399 206430 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno if that's even possible here < 1339966402 521469 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm assuming we're talking about accounts at the same bank, yes? < 1339966410 419314 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-34-144-167.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Automated Clearing House"... An electronic payment thing that's basically designed only around bill payments and payroll. < 1339966418 307686 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :There used to be a system that big companies could use called "direct charge" or something where they could take money from you but < 1339966432 125740 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it got replaced by an "e-bill" system where you need to authorize them < 1339966435 26404 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I see < 1339966448 954226 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-34-144-167.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lumpio-: We would be on the "direct charge" system. < 1339966472 502847 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-34-144-167.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :With wire transfers being little-used because a bank will charge like $20 just to do them. < 1339966483 7843 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-34-144-167.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Domestically! < 1339966483 168085 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :When you use e-bills (pretty much everybody supports them nowadays) you get them in your inbox online and you can view them and pay them with one click < 1339966492 421482 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, why do they do that? And what is a wire transfer? < 1339966499 144368 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plus the best part is that you can also set an automatic payment limit < 1339966508 912384 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like "automatically pay bills from company X up to Y EUR/month" < 1339966516 148637 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is great because otherwise I'd never remember to pay my bills. < 1339966530 103082 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Wire transfer" is what I always hear in American TV shows < 1339966544 679827 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably some kind of ancient and overly complicated method of transferring money from one account to another < 1339966545 828738 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's a bit of a silliness because reseach folk have hacked open all manner of PCI-certified POS terminals, so it's certainly not "safe" to stick in your card in any hole anyway. < 1339966546 166570 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-34-144-167.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: A wire transfer is a means of transmitting money that dates back to the telegram. < 1339966558 736701 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-34-144-167.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, telegraph < 1339966574 629860 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-34-144-167.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because, again, fuck upgrading infrastructure. < 1339966579 51284 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah < 1339966591 495093 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck anything besides COBOL and PDP-11 < 1339966606 53625 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It worked for our ancestors, why wouldn't it work for us! < 1339966637 188075 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: That's not the only thing it's not safe to stick in holes in the wall!!!! < 1339966643 220263 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ahem. < 1339966645 709367 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi. < 1339966664 763216 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-34-144-167.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, yeah. Cash, checks, and magnetic stripe cards are the only usable things. < 1339966677 992075 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, how does it work then? < 1339966704 272175 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there's exactly one chain of stores left that doesn't take chip cards < 1339966712 403791 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-34-144-167.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Poorly! < 1339966720 841694 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-34-144-167.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know the details. < 1339966724 575912 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or well doesn't use the chip < 1339966729 30145 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lumpio-: The "direct charge" thing won't be totally dismantled until 2014, but it's certainly quite deprecated by now. < 1339966730 920253 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that there are any cards without chips left < 1339966735 217407 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: oh ok < 1339966797 884158 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, heh < 1339966813 789344 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The rent for the student housing at the university used to use that scheme. I don't know if they're e-billing people yet. < 1339966843 670189 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get paper bills :V < 1339966851 950409 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or well pre-filled bank transfer sheets < 1339966855 151822 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :/forms < 1339966865 913659 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is a waste of paper because they're just the same information over and over with a different date < 1339966941 342524 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-34-144-167.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :On a slightly unrelated note, it can be quite "delightful" dealing with bureaucracies here. < 1339966956 660844 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-34-144-167.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, who the hell actually expects a fax these days? Apparently bureaucracy. < 1339966980 268705 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what is direct charge? < 1339966983 792918 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :auto-giro? < 1339966986 321968 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-34-144-167.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A friggin' fax machine! < 1339967015 645672 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought that was like the bank being set up to send a monthly transfer somewhere or such < 1339967025 649480 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never touched a fax machine < 1339967032 472013 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Our... uh, I don't know the word. The money that goes to the pseudo-company running this apartment building? Anyway, that, goes so that they mail one paper bill with rows for 12 months, each with a checkbox, and then if you want you can tick each box after you've paid it. (I just set up a monthly repeated payment.) < 1339967037 66747 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I hear they still use them to send signed contracts or whatever around < 1339967045 555487 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it's apparently more "trustworthy" than e-mail < 1339967059 166519 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which only goes to further prove that old people only find old things trustworthy. < 1339967074 285013 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1339967101 891228 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, email is not very trustworthy. < 1339967113 923241 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are faxes any more trustworthy < 1339967125 415004 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-34-144-167.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Fax is a photosensor, an ADC, and a modem. < 1339967125 574931 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :They go through a lot less stuff, don't they? < 1339967136 937598 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :If we're talking about somebody who's willing to go as far as forge contracts or whatnot < 1339967146 585221 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-34-144-167.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: They mean "trustworthy" in the sense of forgery. < 1339967158 602402 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Right, so the question is one of interception, right? < 1339967178 13006 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're very trustworthy. There was that story about a prison "escape" that happened by the prisoner's friend sending a "hey, release the guy" fax from the local copy shop. < 1339967200 588510 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-34-144-167.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not... Really. The question is one of sending utterly bogus stuff. < 1339967213 967877 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-34-144-167.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The assumption for some reason is "if it's a fax, it's real" < 1339967216 790182 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :IEEE wanted me to fax them a signed copyright-contract form for a conference once. < 1339967245 938441 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Oh. < 1339967267 426974 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: :D < 1339967284 140526 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-34-144-167.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :We're talking people who probably think that they actually get offers on dick elongation that can *actually do that*. < 1339967312 759671 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I vaguely recall they had some alternative to faxing, though. But maybe it was just snailmailing it. < 1339967359 87428 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah < 1339967365 715538 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Old people trust faxes because they're easy to understand! < 1339967369 668876 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Send the signed Copyright Transfer form by October 15, 2008 (HARD DEADLINE!), to the conference secretariat by fax or scanned email" < 1339967370 31218 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean c'mon it's like dialing the phone! < 1339967384 441292 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :None of them new-fangled internets or e-mails < 1339967389 794966 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, they don't mind a scan-and-email, at least at this conference. < 1339967416 723492 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Remember that your paper cannot be included in the conference proceedings without the signed IEEE Copyright Transfer form. Electronic signatures will not be accepted. < 1339967419 725561 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Due to new IEEE regulations, the author who signed the copyright transfer form or the presenter will be required to resign this form at the conference because the original handwritten signature must be filed with the IEEE Headquarters." < 1339967461 13383 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not exactly clear how they're going to tell whether I've pasted the signature in rather than signing and scanning it. < 1339967577 117827 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-34-144-167.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pasting the signature in is "impossible", they think. < 1339967588 583452 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-34-144-167.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you tell them you did that, they will think you are a wizard to rival Merlin. < 1339967754 857570 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I mentioned this before, but recently I had to pay a travel agency some money, and they solved the "email is not encrypted so it can't be used to send credit card info" by requesting the card number and the CVV number in two separate emails. Because, you know, how would someone catch *both*? < 1339967773 724971 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1339967791 22859 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I think a phone call was an option for the CVV, though.) < 1339967793 903428 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-34-144-167.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gotta love people having no clue how any of this stuff works. < 1339967794 456472 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :We've had people send over stuff partially as SMS and partially via e-mail < 1339967801 734610 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, even if they did catch both mails, they have no way of knowing which mail is the card number and which is the CVV < 1339967831 413816 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-34-144-167.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: strlen will handle that. :) < 1339968328 198031 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1339968716 905657 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what /IS/ the CVV actually? As in, how does it work. I know it is the 3 digits on the back thingy but apart from that? No clue < 1339968888 514269 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, btw you americans without chips in your cards would run into issues if you visited Sweden. Usually the magnetic stripe thingy is taped over these days < 1339968898 40765 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so people don't use it instead of the chip < 1339968906 566417 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :strip* < 1339969095 363673 :george97!~george4li@41-184-84-250.rv.ipnxtelecoms.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1339969111 278919 :george97!~george4li@41-184-84-250.rv.ipnxtelecoms.com PART :#esoteric < 1339969315 823041 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The code is just additional numbers (that are not on the magnetic strip) that are sometimes (often?) required when doing a "card not present" transaction, i.e. the merchant is not actually given the card, just its details over the phone/internet/whatever. < 1339969331 812668 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right < 1339969342 581816 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I think I only ever used it with paypal? < 1339969375 232536 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :verified by visa stuff doesn't use it. It uses my card reader instead < 1339969384 691953 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The idea being that if you stick a card-skimmer over an ATM card slot, it can't copy that number, so you'll actually need to be physically present when using the cloned card, so it's easier to get caught. < 1339969425 813280 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, if it isn't on the strip then how can it not be possible to just copy the data on the strip? < 1339969437 51125 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh? < 1339969446 144984 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :why can't you just copy the data on the strip < 1339969451 111753 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would you need the CSC < 1339969462 479592 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure you can, but the code is not on it. < 1339969486 783375 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, but the CSC is not needed when paying in a shop anyway. You just need the copy the card data and presumably the PIN < 1339969504 221513 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can use a card skimmer and an add-on keypad on top of the original one < 1339969506 160541 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I *just* mentioned this. < 1339969507 365655 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what more would you need < 1339969523 458821 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no more data that you need as far as I can see < 1339969531 297632 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't use the copied card over the internet/phone/whatever, is the point. < 1339969536 284739 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1339969543 563302 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because the merchant would require the code. < 1339969545 132461 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you could use it in a normal shop just fine < 1339969555 926381 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, and get caught just fine too. < 1339969571 846686 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since you need to be there in the shop with the card. < 1339969572 400214 :nortti_!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1339969583 748467 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, who said you would get caught? You wouldn't use it more than a couple of times the same day < 1339969611 736310 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, well, it's obviously an imperfect security measure. The point still remains. < 1339969615 307254 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1339969835 401717 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most of the credit card misuse strategies are based on ordering stuff online (to other people, who then pay you via Western Union or whatever), anyway, and it'll at least attempt to block those. (Well, I suppose whoever copied the card is most likely to sell the details forward, but anyway at some point someone's going to have to use it.) < 1339969901 324073 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1339969936 569459 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, why western union? < 1339969957 619989 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because from what I know it's not very traceable. < 1339969961 385213 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1339970044 409022 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-34-144-167.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes, well, we'd have trouble *anyways*. < 1339970047 666750 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Western Union advises its customers not to send money to someone that they have never met in person. Despite its efforts in increasing customers' awareness of the issue,[17] Western Union is used for internet fraud by scammers.[18]" < 1339970057 183466 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1339970073 993689 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-34-144-167.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Some banks like to charge for international use. < 1339970083 472023 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meeting in person is overrated < 1339970089 995599 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-34-144-167.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Others will disable your card, under the assumption that it's fraud. < 1339970095 552902 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, heh!? < 1339970103 175612 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :banks liking to charge is no news < 1339970106 251161 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is what banks do < 1339970125 613897 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, so you mean that they disable your card if you are on holidays in a different country? < 1339970143 82422 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-34-144-167.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some, yes. < 1339970148 720925 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1339970148 880538 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently eBay have banned it. (Though I'm sure you can still find eBay people willing to pay with it, especially since they'll be getting the merchandise before paying, so it all seems quite legit.) < 1339970161 981636 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-34-144-167.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you go out of your way to tell them "I will be out of the country". < 1339970171 345169 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I see < 1339970180 908135 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I best watch out for that in the future < 1339970185 905688 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I ever go abroad < 1339970201 257324 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-34-144-167.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also sucks heavily if you want to use a cell phone abroad. < 1339970223 707437 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-34-144-167.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I swear, the data plans are from the 90s. < 1339970228 67084 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-34-144-167.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Charge per *megabyte*? < 1339970234 370668 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Banks around here also disable cards if they're used in a physically unlikely way; say, in country A, then five minutes later in country B, then again 15 minutes later in country A. (With A and B being non-neighbours.) < 1339970250 782422 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, yeah < 1339970258 275915 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, roaming data isn't really any better in Europe, I don't think. < 1339970258 441806 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, roaming rates are absurd < 1339970272 669766 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-34-144-167.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You also get absurd charges for international voice... < 1339970282 711427 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-34-144-167.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And all this assumes you have a phone that functions internationally. < 1339970297 918557 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-34-144-167.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The North American GSM frequencies are different from the rest of the world. < 1339970304 166355 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :They have some EU-wide maximum-charge limit nowadays, for data and SMS and I think voice too. But the limits are quite high. < 1339970315 738623 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I saw an ad recently for an international mobile pay plan. With a cost of 137 SEK / day. At least it was per day but that cost is more than what I pay per *month* for my plan < 1339970317 758900 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The data part is IIRC pretty new. < 1339970327 4912 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-34-144-167.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Jesus. < 1339970336 996139 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-34-144-167.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's friggin' charging just to charge. < 1339970342 113153 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :137 SEK is $19.71 apperently < 1339970358 714379 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, anyway that was like the max cost per day when roaming < 1339970362 260608 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-34-144-167.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, you pay $19.71 per month? Lucky bastards. < 1339970365 474508 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just seemed absurd to me < 1339970378 982270 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, no I pay $14.24 < 1339970388 370889 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't pay a bloody $19.71 < 1339970396 143190 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is just stupidly much < 1339970411 877602 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-34-144-167.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: US cell plans start at $39.99/mo. < 1339970436 540371 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-34-144-167.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or 10¢/min. if you go with a prepaid phone. < 1339970440 884164 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, my plan is a student one though. IIRC it costs like 150 normally ($21) < 1339970450 493683 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(err $21.59) < 1339970464 907343 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, anyway it is heavy on data but not on calls < 1339970467 630206 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-34-144-167.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(benefit of a prepaid phone being that that minutely charge is the only charge at all, so if you don't call much, well.) < 1339970486 571626 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get a LOT of data (and even when I reach the limit of 4 GB / month it just slows down, it doesn't cost me more) < 1339970493 238051 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I pay $12.51/mon, but it's speed-limited to something rather slow; it's an old deal, and I haven't changed because it comes with a "slave SIM" thing and a USB 3G stick, so I can have both the phone and the laptop interwebbed simultaneously. Not that I ever really use that, but the idea is nice. < 1339970496 550858 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I get 5000 SMS / month (as if I would ever reach that) < 1339970497 674771 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-34-144-167.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: That's a plan *without* data. < 1339970504 477508 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but voice calls cost a bit more < 1339970517 823416 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :when I got the plan I didn't do many voice calls though < 1339970555 480461 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :nowdays I do that more, if it keeps at the current level (more than usual currently, since I'm looking for a job), I might change plan < 1339970560 591049 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I get cheaper voice calls < 1339970567 309481 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-34-144-167.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data starts at an additional $15/mo. < 1339970587 944246 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, because in practise it ends up at more than 99 SEK / month due to the voice calls currently. Last month was 127 SEK iirc < 1339970590 145394 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-34-144-167.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(all rates from AT&T) < 1339970601 627940 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is a whopping $18.27 < 1339970633 231430 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-34-144-167.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Or $3.27 more than 250MB of data on *top* of a cell plan in the US. < 1339970649 489048 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, anyway the point here was that 137 SEK / day was advertised as a roaming cost. And that is $19.71 / day roaming < 1339970652 152513 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that is absurd < 1339970664 858814 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :if that is advertised as especially low roaming cost < 1339970672 782604 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :then I don't want to know what the usual cost is < 1339970708 797556 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah roaming needs to be cheaper < 1339970710 489172 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-34-144-167.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just amazed you can have such a god-damned low rate. < 1339970712 376822 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :MUCH cheaper < 1339970725 461657 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, remember it is a student plan though < 1339970742 505801 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-34-144-167.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes, and the normal rate is still half a normal US rate. < 1339970755 317854 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, and there are no included voice minutes in it < 1339970763 699607 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lot of SMS and data though < 1339970770 151784 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-34-144-167.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: And there are no data or SMS included in that rate. < 1339970819 225644 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, and iirc very cheap call to anyone else with Telia. Only issue, no one that I know currently use Telia. My dad used to, but he switched to Telenor years ago, and a couple of months ago he switched to Tele2 < 1339970836 231268 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so pretty useless that cheap call for me < 1339970878 38334 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I'm getting a new phone soon btw. Going for a Samsung Galaxy S3 < 1339970907 42693 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I need to order a MicroSIM as well. I have MiniSIM currently. All very amusing since the new phone will be larger than my current one. < 1339970925 422266 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm of course going to buy the phone separately from my plan < 1339970936 101521 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :only idiots would buy the phone with the plan IMO < 1339970940 554136 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently the maximum roaming data rate in EU is 0.50 EUR/megabyte. (But that's a price ceiling on how much the roaming network operator can charge from the customer's home operator, so it's not directly a ceiling on how much the end-user must pay.) < 1339970962 265230 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ouch < 1339970966 633557 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is still quite a lot < 1339970986 194797 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact absurdly much < 1339970999 77820 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, but at least there's a ceiling. Some of the per-megabyte prices were really something else, before. < 1339971023 815206 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1339971035 890270 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't get why they would do that < 1339971043 89225 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :the roaming *call* costs are absurd as well < 1339971043 621818 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1339971048 171089 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just seems stupid < 1339971052 988655 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because they like to get money? < 1339971061 570697 :oerjan_!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1339971061 865145 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 JOIN :#esoteric < 1339971063 700731 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be cheaper getting a pre-paid card in the country you are visiting < 1339971066 620622 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than roaming < 1339971087 331874 :oerjan_!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm so that's why it went silent < 1339971091 730316 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :People do do that. Especially now that you can sometimes find sensible pre-paid data. < 1339971095 200642 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pre-paid with data can be quite cheap here < 1339971121 549313 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I used to have pre-paid with data. IIRC it was max 9 SEK per day for data. < 1339971124 829107 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something like that < 1339971151 597675 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I had this UDP-based "I send this packet and it resends the contents as email to all our relatives" setup for one trip. Even with the silly per-megabyte price, they charged at 50kiB granularity, and the price for one connect+send+disconnect was less than a single SMS. < 1339971174 261627 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, did they round up or down? < 1339971180 479267 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Up, of course. < 1339971184 326898 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1339971203 655665 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, so you wrote a software for that or you used an existing one? < 1339971207 884318 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it was still just one unit per message, IIRC. < 1339971242 844967 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was a Perl script at the server end, and J2ME locally, I think. The phone I was using at the time wasn't very smart. < 1339971258 724507 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1339971261 327822 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haven't seen existing software for that. < 1339971262 58691 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-34-144-167.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Aaaah, stupid charging. < 1339971273 177411 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, no news there < 1339971286 44408 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-34-144-167.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A charge for SMS is overcharging. < 1339971291 558293 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1339971315 534426 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :also stupid frequency issues when you visit different parts of the world < 1339971324 163184 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes the frequency bands are completely different < 1339971330 560907 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the phone doesn't work anyway < 1339971339 325649 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :0.1342 EUR/SMS is the corresponding EU region ceiling for that. But that's also a new thing. < 1339971369 560255 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-34-144-167.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: That's approx. 0.1342 EUR too many..; < 1339971377 575274 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :*.net *.split < 1339971378 9148 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi QUIT :*.net *.split < 1339971379 638091 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :1.188 SEK? That is an absurd cost < 1339971404 844552 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1339971416 942421 :oerjan_!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh 0.1342 eur is precisely 1 nok < 1339971417 620998 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw I wonder why my plan says 5000 free SMS / month, and iirc there is an upgrade option for even more < 1339971423 905682 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :who the hell is going to use that? < 1339971428 193769 :oerjan_!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well by google) < 1339971439 580993 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, 5000 SMS per month is A LOT < 1339971443 447359 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: People do. The statistics are really crazy. < 1339971455 494424 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, how could anyone type 5000 SMS in a month on a PHONE < 1339971457 361576 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Some average three-digit numbers daily. < 1339971462 952112 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :without breaking their fingers < 1339971471 905498 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, seriously? < 1339971487 689048 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :They use it like IRC except pay per line. :p < 1339971489 268776 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I average 150 / year r so < 1339971495 989425 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or* < 1339971499 627463 :oerjan_!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no NICK :oerjan < 1339971523 265704 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The overall average for the 12-17 age group in the US seems to be 60/day. < 1339971559 759288 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admittedly that's just 1800/month, but it's the average. Some go higher. < 1339971562 308646 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :according to my phone I sent a total of 712 SMS (it says 712/743, I think were long and thus split in two internally or something) < 1339971572 863436 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't think I ever reset that counter < 1339971580 284312 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so a bit more than 150 / year < 1339971590 576041 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Average for 14-17 seems to be about 100/day. < 1339971605 738742 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :still I had it for like 6 years or so by now < 1339971622 260198 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-34-144-167.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So. 140 bytes per SMS. < 1339971630 235742 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, hm? < 1339971644 251937 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-34-144-167.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :5000 free SMS -> 683 free kilobytes. < 1339971651 468052 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I'm a net-importer of SMS: 737/760 is the received SMS count < 1339971667 39029 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1339971697 973265 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Overall average in Finland is 3/day, apparently, but it would make more sense to compare the same age group; I just don't have that number on this Google results page. < 1339971703 21264 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, well you get 2 GB free data before it slows down to like 80 kb/s (instead of 6 MB/s or whatever it is supposed to be, my phone is slower than that anyway) < 1339971739 80334 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-34-144-167.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, that roaming rate is... 0.9815EUR / kilobyte. < 1339971750 415999 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1339971770 917944 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, so more than the per mb then? < 1339971776 348681 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-34-144-167.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1339971777 548380 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is silly < 1339971795 700143 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, definitely way less than 1 / day for me. However I do tend to go weeks without a single SMS and then send like three on the same day < 1339971821 338827 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I average about three per month, I think. < 1339971825 751902 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1339971834 206252 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :we are a different generation I guess < 1339971849 870098 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh I feel old < 1339971855 614228 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :we should ask elliott how many he sends < 1339971866 979790 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hey! How many SMS do you write per day approximately? < 1339971880 886682 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 < 1339971895 210094 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let me check how many I send per day. < 1339971902 667162 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, it says "like a billion". < 1339971934 388734 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :But he's not in US. We'd need a 14-to-17-year-old from the US, to verify that 100/day figure. < 1339971959 869467 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey monqy < 1339971973 862944 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy is 12 < 1339972023 515789 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, how many per year? < 1339972047 878110 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, how many SMS do you send per day (or another suitable time unit if the answer would be <1) < 1339972111 362488 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy ages 1 year per year < 1339972123 271307 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i have sent 0 smses in 2012 < 1339972125 225444 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think in 2011 too < 1339972131 161469 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah < 1339972243 799887 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what about MMS? < 1339972252 413767 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I once received an MMS < 1339972254 59161 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is all < 1339972261 953127 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and my phone didn't support it < 1339972266 65547 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I have no idea what it was < 1339972293 647861 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I asked the guy who sent it and he had no clue he had done that. So probably it was a misclick or something < 1339972316 357393 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, so yeah, any MMS figures? < 1339972352 189254 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've received three, but they come in as a SMS with a link to the operator's website where I can look at it, because I don't have the "can receive MMS" flag turned on at the operator. (It's turned on if you ever send one, or you can toggle it on manually from their settings page.) < 1339972363 45712 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1339972384 975066 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :according to wikipedia the most active country in Europe for MMS is Norway < 1339972393 453209 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :where did oerjan go? < 1339972399 224056 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can recall the contents of only two, but I think there was a third. < 1339972403 94487 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, got many MMS? < 1339972479 475304 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Phantom_Hoover, how many SMS do you send per day (or another suitable time unit if the answer would be <1) < 1339972482 413668 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1339972495 886478 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm fairly sure i haven't sent an sms since... years? < 1339972499 462408 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh wait i can check < 1339972500 894723 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1339972615 180264 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've sent *two* yesterday. My quota for the month is almost up, it seems. (Though I sent 0 in May, so maybe it balances out.) < 1339972625 924426 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh hmm I've sent multiple in the last year, < 1339972632 576684 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But less than can be counted on one hand. < 1339972635 667096 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1339972644 963968 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: So less than 32? < 1339972653 487046 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1339972658 166887 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Much less than 32. < 1339972662 504723 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, what about MMS? You ever received or sent any? < 1339972701 927694 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I... think maybe I've sent... one? < 1339972725 587222 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Maybe* a few more, but we're talking the better part of a decade ago for that. < 1339972752 759268 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1339972757 26184 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Funnily enough, the VDSL2 at home comes with some (10/month or so?) free SMSes. You send them from the ISP's "account settings" web thing. (They're also a cellphone operator. But it's still kinda weird.) < 1339972769 335728 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :very weird < 1339972776 670915 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the low limit is even more weird < 1339972777 355740 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: my phone _still_ doesn't support MMS :P < 1339972788 173137 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, still? Have I asked you before? < 1339972789 614586 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1339972827 359063 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, how many SMS do you send per day (or other more suitable time unit if answer is <1) < 1339972837 89912 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You can buy more, I think. But it's not a very advertised service, don't know if anyone really uses it. (I suspect a bored programmer implemented it.) < 1339972845 128143 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, heh < 1339972896 542972 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw how does the thing where you send an SMS to a specific number (usually a normally non-valid one) and get configuration data for data or mms back work? < 1339972907 42511 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :usually the phone somehow just interprets that directly < 1339972915 206880 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: lessee, i cannot quite recall how many months since my last one. < 1339972920 624337 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, ah < 1339972999 87749 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just realised that the SMS message length and the twitter message length is the same. I wonder if that is a co-incidence. < 1339973007 253186 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course it isn't < 1339973007 867231 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not the same. < 1339973016 627574 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, 140 in both cases? < 1339973025 211138 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :160 characters for SMS. < 1339973031 328153 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :In 140 bytes of daa. < 1339973036 76146 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, not according to wikipedia < 1339973038 709663 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1339973039 912590 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1339973052 666088 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, so how many bits per char? < 1339973055 919118 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-34-144-167.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :7. < 1339973065 211834 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seven, yes. < 1339973066 289812 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :err I used unicode in SMS < 1339973068 44767 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know that < 1339973071 848681 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it worked just fine < 1339973082 615538 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It eats multiple characters, too. < 1339973083 798960 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that UTF-7? < 1339973095 100843 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. It's a mess. :p < 1339973103 950583 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1339973115 607809 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have a character counter it should jump if you put special-enough characters in. < 1339973128 925944 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-34-144-167.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently it's either the GSM 7-bit encoding, straight octets, or UTF-16. < 1339973131 617699 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will check < 1339973145 782770 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, hm wikipedia claims UCS2 < 1339973158 491392 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-34-144-167.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh, that's even more moronic. < 1339973178 712966 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm my phone says 1000/1 < 1339973183 161757 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is a strange count < 1339973210 836476 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it counts down < 1339973211 299289 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is, because that's not the maximum limit for concatenated messages, I don't think. < 1339973225 12421 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "1" is probably the number of messages. < 1339973241 281785 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes the 1 is that < 1339973243 55888 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know that < 1339973256 337747 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to recall there was some even stranger escape mechanism when sending a message with the 7-bit alphabet and just having individual special characters. < 1339973287 937759 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :also mashing the 1 gives me a smiley (T9 word thingy) < 1339973310 701466 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it supports up to 8 concatenated :-) before it gives me a question mark that the word is unknown < 1339973311 402092 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1339973331 393729 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry miscounted, 10 < 1339973348 784215 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Note that on many GSM smartphones, there's no specific preselection of the UCS-2 encoding. The default is to use the 7-bit encoding above, until one enters a character that is not present in the GSM 7-bit table (for example the lowercase c with cedilla 'ç'). In that case, the whole message gets reencoded using the UCS-2 encoding, and the maximum length of the message sent in only 1 SMS is ... < 1339973355 80758 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :... immediately reduced to 70 code units, instead of 160." < 1339973356 575260 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe no escaping, then. < 1339973366 964416 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it goes like this on the screen: :-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):)? < 1339973373 860872 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(with that underline yes) < 1339973389 562095 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1339973412 123420 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-) < 1339973418 634966 :MDude!~fyrc@67.232.231.162 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1339973422 434388 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, yes, there's this thing. < 1339973426 253147 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric ::—) < 1339973428 120417 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what thing? < 1339973432 536466 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, quite < 1339973445 935054 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Since release 8 of the GSM 23.038 standard, additional characters sets can be accessed through the use of a National Language Shift Table. < 1339973448 935345 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :These tables allow the use of different character sets according to the language the text is going to be written. The choice of table for a given message is selected in the User Data Header section of an SMS message and can be specified for the whole text (a Locking shift table) or a single character (Single shift table). < 1339973450 69543 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I'm just amused it supports concatenated smilies! < 1339973454 447759 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Using a shift table, a message can still use 7-bit encoding for the characters, but a different set can be chosen to correctly show accented and language specific characters. This allows up to 155 characters, encoded in 136 octets (140 octets, minus the 4-octets of User Data Header required to indicate the use of a shift table and the language code)." < 1339973458 711686 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :as a special thing < 1339973459 927782 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That thing. < 1339973476 392989 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that's what many phones do if you stick in some special-but-not-too-special character. < 1339973505 640107 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, like åäö or such? < 1339973520 634778 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :T9 huh < 1339973523 979189 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could never use that < 1339973535 27964 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-34-144-167.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: What a "pleasant" hack to deal with how phone companies seem to feel that half a floppy disk per month is a reasonable allocation. < 1339973542 653292 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lumpio-, what? It makes perfect sense. You just need to hit the key on the keypad once per char < 1339973549 297952 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah but < 1339973556 435840 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just never liked it .__. < 1339973559 750154 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1339973563 890136 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I learned to type decently fast on the keypad < 1339973572 425102 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lumpio-, next you will say you hate swype on smartphones? < 1339973574 182700 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I might've averaged at least over 150cpm < 1339973584 711653 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1339973584 871367 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I hate typing on touchscreens for one. < 1339973588 697850 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1339973594 391665 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :who doesn't? < 1339973667 112365 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I was searching the wikipedia page about twitter for "140" to find the reason for that specific limit. Amusingly I hit that they had US$ 140 million revenue and over 140 million users instead < 1339973687 484598 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what fitting numbers < 1339973755 98302 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Actually åäö are part of the default 7-bit set. (It's not ASCII.) My counter jumps from 160 to 69 if I type a ‰, indicating UCS-2. Haven't found an in-between character yet. (It counts number of characters until the next message.) < 1339973771 529004 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc it comes from the GSM SMS limit of 160 (7-bit) characters minus space for a username < 1339973776 768543 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hey "The messages were initially set to a 140 character limit for the compatibility with SMS messaging" according to wikipedia about twitter < 1339973781 847603 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yes they are related! < 1339973798 583973 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe; it's not the same limit, though. < 1339973807 429122 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah twitter was originally based on the idea of sending/receiving status updates by SMS < 1339973810 388230 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-34-144-167.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Twitter limit is 140 UTF-8-encoded integers. < 1339973821 233345 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, right. < 1339973838 720021 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also some random uppercase Greek in the 7-bit GSM. < 1339973871 221077 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1339973897 879535 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, you mean Cyrillic letters or ancient Greek letters? < 1339973948 283748 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1339974016 973730 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean Γ, Λ, Ω, Π, Ψ, Σ and few others. (Got tired copy-pasting from a table with this phone.) < 1339974027 800538 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1339974123 164020 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :SMS is weird, anyway. There's that "flash SMS" that used to show up in phones as an alert without "opening" the message. Optionally blinking. Technically a "class 0" message. No idea if that still works. < 1339974145 818938 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what are you talking about? < 1339974158 529834 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It could be used for pranking since it looked like an "official" message, not just something anyone could send. < 1339974167 147216 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :how would you send one? < 1339974208 109353 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1339974210 354615 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :By fiddlery. At least computers with a GSM card could send them. IIRC some phones too, if you did the right magic. < 1339974217 716796 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.dreamfabric.com/sms/alert.html has some details. < 1339974233 759267 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :aww, not easy to do then I guess < 1339974274 317713 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.ehow.com/how_5202567_send-flash-sms.html < 1339974288 662967 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: and it's the UCS version of UTF-8 at that, so you can encode codepoints outside the Unicode range < 1339974308 648534 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1339974333 16628 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I have no idea if that flash SMS buggery still works in today's phones.) < 1339974350 593876 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Type "0001" followed by the beginning of your text message. This is considered a "Class 0" message by most cell phones." <-- that are 4 bytes of letters? < 1339974353 817819 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is* < 1339974364 155318 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is a "Class 0" message? < 1339974397 391911 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :testing it to my own phone, not working as that ehow suggested it < 1339974412 650148 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-34-144-167.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: That's what I was meaning to imply. :) < 1339974435 523527 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : pikhq: and it's the UCS version of UTF-8 at that, so you can encode codepoints outside the Unicode range <-- what, really? < 1339974439 883542 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: modern greek also uses those letters... < 1339974440 238819 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :UCS8 is silly < 1339974453 309259 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, I thought they used Cyrillic? < 1339974457 827550 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than µ and so on < 1339974460 215440 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1339974468 875893 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? hm < 1339974473 815611 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :look it up =D < 1339974479 44642 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe you < 1339974479 203973 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1339974483 568383 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cyrillic for greek? < 1339974496 515741 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's pretty close to the ancient greek alphabet, fewer letters and diacritics aiui < 1339974522 334932 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, "aiui"? < 1339974526 109458 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :as i understand it < 1339974529 368519 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1339974532 714284 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I would certainly think it should be a single U+0001 character, but the eHow makes it sound strange. Who knows. The SMS wiki-article mentions such a thing exists, but doesn't have any details. < 1339974542 775537 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :cyrillic alphabet is based on greek and looks a lot like greek too < 1339974549 224578 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, right < 1339974552 535002 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably the eHow article is just wrong < 1339974559 680192 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah it probably is < 1339974606 729978 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :greek was written in boustrophedon order for a while! < 1339974612 238980 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The ASCII control code 0x01 is the "start of heading" code. < 1339974745 897015 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, what is that? < 1339974758 479089 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :left to right and right to left on alternating lines < 1339974764 423152 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol? < 1339974766 154321 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :back and forth like an ox plowing a field < 1339974768 851329 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, lol. < 1339974774 317349 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: have you ever seen an ox plow a field < 1339974779 924837 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1339974800 14533 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, well it makes it easy to handle very long lines in a text without losing your position! < 1339974801 491796 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :must be strong like bull and smart like tractor < 1339974807 361559 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but tricky to read still < 1339974819 839750 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, according to the http://www.dreamfabric.com/sms/alert.html table the main thing is to have the correct first ("TP-DCS") byte, which you obviously can't type in, and the U+0001 just makes for the blinking. So if the eHow ever worked, it must've relied on phones recognizing the 0001 and doing the magic. < 1339974837 145829 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, does it count if I saw it on a documentary? < 1339974906 869862 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbiab < 1339975041 351694 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi monqy < 1339975074 220458 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://mobiletidings.com/2009/02/12/sending-a-flash-sms-message/ (with a phone plugged to a computer in some way you can speak AT commands to it) sounds far more likely to work, assuming operators don't block/change the message class, and modern phones still do the UI difference. < 1339975109 510262 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The example is not in UCS-2 mode though.) < 1339975247 889170 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1339975381 397781 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1339975520 854989 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What values are the IFC and IFR fields supposed to hold in Impulse Tracker instruments? I can find nothing to say what value they should be set to and what they mean < 1339975621 580634 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1339975917 990805 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1339976550 574782 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Based on the few hints I've seen, I think they take a value 0..127, and then the most significant bit is set if the filter is enabled. So they can be 0..127 with no effect, and then 128..255 means the filter is on, i.e. enabled for a channel when the instrument is playing. And http://schismtracker.org/wiki/Resonant%20Filters kind-of documents how the 0..127 values get turned into filter ... < 1339976557 65114 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :... coefficients. < 1339976659 386679 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that and/or the previous link. < 1339976663 852028 :pikhq_!~pikhq@168-103-249-109.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1339976705 917681 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're not very clear. But the modplug code is using the MSB as a flag whether to enable the filter. < 1339976756 967361 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Some claim modplug gets the actual filtering wrong, so that's probably not useful to look at, but I think they would get the part about IFC/IFR right.) < 1339976875 353952 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-34-144-167.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1339977223 858674 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1339977229 123518 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Client Quit < 1339977241 606310 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the comments of the code of that schismtracker.org link, I believe "i" is 256*(IFC & 0x7f), and "d" (not same as the 'd' in the after-code text) is QualityFactorTable[IFR & 0x7f], but the earlier link (where that value is called 'p') gives an explicit formula instead of using the table: "p = 10^((-resonance*24.0)/(128.0f*20.0f))". < 1339977263 438976 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where 'resonance' in that formula would again be IFR&0x7f. < 1339977305 845408 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1339977307 86530 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't checked if it matches the table, except that it does when resonance == 0, and p == 1.0. < 1339977452 853208 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1339977491 355969 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems quite reasonable; the value 0.1 is (eyeball-measuring) about 20/24ths through the table, where it should be.