< 1340841807 363041 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1340842156 65744 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1340843930 714693 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1340844502 806483 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1340844996 738333 :pikhq_!~pikhq@70-56-228-197.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1340844998 631664 :pikhq!~pikhq@168-103-249-151.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1340845662 483114 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1340846473 606998 :tswett!~tswett@thay.Stanford.EDU JOIN :#esoteric < 1340846626 752477 :tswett!~tswett@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi. I'm looking for a DBMS where I can easily browse through tables, click things in order to insert new rows, and display data in various graphical ways. < 1340846677 863154 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-127-153.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1340846678 725486 :tswett!~tswett@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :As nice as SQL is, if I want to view an entire table, I do not want to type "SELECT * FROM mytable" and browse through the output on my terminal. < 1340846745 417803 :tswett!~tswett@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :As barfworthy as Microsoft is, Microsoft Access does pretty much everything I want, except be free. < 1340846776 856090 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :phpMyAdmin does most of that < 1340846798 396963 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know if people still use that < 1340846802 463530 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i haven't used it in years < 1340846835 405366 :tswett!~tswett@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've tried phpMyAdmin, and it's pretty nice, but I'd like to have something self-contained. < 1340846905 482851 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently you can buy books on the subject < 1340846963 347566 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://squirrel-sql.sourceforge.net/ here's some thingy < 1340846991 235561 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_database_tools anyd this list < 1340847160 22772 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help < 1340847160 340573 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​help: General commands: !help, !info, !bf_txtgen. See also !help languages, !help userinterps. You can get help on some commands by typing !help . < 1340847169 271812 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf_txtgen help < 1340847171 758173 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​56 ++++++++[>+++++++++++++>+>><<<<-]>.---.+++++++.++++.>++. [303] < 1340847208 100136 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh cmon egobot, you can do better than that < 1340847258 167948 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf ++++++++[>+++++++++++++>+<<-]>.---.+++++++.++++.>++. < 1340847258 875537 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :help < 1340847270 957667 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :boom egobot. four characters shorter! < 1340847591 834900 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust :( + < 1340847776 402988 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell Gregor bfjoust is broke. maybe my attempted replacement for the bash script is broke? I DON'T KNOW ENOUGH TO FIX IT GREGOR D: < 1340847776 638430 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1340848597 869759 :tswett!~tswett@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION downloads Navicat. < 1340848631 40407 :tswett!~tswett@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not free, but it looks fancy. < 1340848770 420189 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1340848775 918870 :DH____!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 JOIN :#esoteric < 1340849474 152191 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk JOIN :#esoteric < 1340849891 613270 :blom!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1340849895 130820 :Tod-Autojoined!~Tod@166-70-93-209.ip.xmission.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1340849928 112362 :TodPunk!~Tod@166-70-93-209.ip.xmission.com QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1340850118 925454 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1340850277 940923 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have fallen and I can't get up. < 1340850293 849168 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1340850325 762021 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1340850597 876404 :Nisstyre!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1340850632 878909 :DH____!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1340850853 721085 :TeruFSX!~quassel@65.128.161.243 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1340850908 672019 :TeruFSX!~quassel@65-128-161-243.mpls.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1340850958 811833 :Nisstyre!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre JOIN :#esoteric < 1340852806 897259 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 JOIN :#esoteric < 1340853672 802582 :MDude!~fyrc@67.232.231.162 NICK :MDream] < 1340853678 717979 :MDream]!~fyrc@67.232.231.162 NICK :MDream < 1340854173 788532 :FoREALien!~FoREALien@c-98-225-49-68.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1340856210 54272 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Magsbot has some database functionality, and it's free < 1340856211 946205 :TeruFSX_!~quassel@65-128-161-243.mpls.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1340856229 677366 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although it's hardly intended for database manipulation, it ... can... on Windows < 1340856248 401370 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc it likes Comic Sans for stuff < 1340856263 601528 :TeruFSX!~quassel@65-128-161-243.mpls.qwest.net QUIT :*.net *.split < 1340856263 826587 :stanley!~stanley@unaffiliated/stanley QUIT :*.net *.split < 1340856264 22969 :trout!~root@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :*.net *.split < 1340856565 630374 :Tod-Autojoined!~Tod@166-70-93-209.ip.xmission.com NICK :TodPunk < 1340856598 610783 :stanley!~stanley@unaffiliated/stanley JOIN :#esoteric < 1340856599 217304 :trout!~root@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric < 1340856968 630756 :asiekierka_!~asiekierk@178235038077.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1340857291 298693 :augur!~augur@pool-71-178-131-208.washdc.east.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1340857338 427139 :stanley!~stanley@unaffiliated/stanley QUIT :*.net *.split < 1340857338 427202 :trout!~root@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :*.net *.split < 1340857697 340073 :stanley!~stanley@unaffiliated/stanley JOIN :#esoteric < 1340857697 575434 :trout!~root@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric < 1340859615 144175 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1340859618 934288 :augur_!~augur@208.58.5.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1340859831 297052 :augur!~augur@pool-71-178-131-208.washdc.east.verizon.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1340860017 844848 :asiekierka_!~asiekierk@178235038077.elblag.vectranet.pl QUIT :Quit: Wychodzi < 1340861225 969871 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1340861520 481362 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1340861832 367805 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk JOIN :#esoteric < 1340863596 173743 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1340864206 420380 :augur_!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :edwardk: ?! < 1340864211 179325 :augur_!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are you doing in here?! < 1340864248 924706 :pikhq_!~pikhq@70-56-228-197.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur_: #esoteric is stealing #haskell, person by person. < 1340864272 394369 :augur_!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1340864377 222127 :blom!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi QUIT :Killed (cameron.freenode.net (Nickname regained by services)) < 1340864389 660981 :Guest34050!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1340864415 252518 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: OpenOffice.Org Base, of course. < 1340864501 300993 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's one thing to use PHP for your project < 1340864510 488485 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but quite another to be so proud of it that you put "php" in the name of your project < 1340864558 60359 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I tried out that wxWidgetsy PostgreSQL admin thing, pgAdmin, once. It was reasonable, but it's for Postgres. < 1340864578 820900 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Particularly when your project is PHP? < 1340864659 53175 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, OOo Base can speak to at least MySQL and Postgres, plus anything JDBC/ODBCable. It's probably perfectly horrible, though. < 1340864785 458456 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: i used to lurk in here long before you started ;) < 1340864793 88555 :augur_!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :edwardk: :O < 1340864797 166852 :augur_!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :when did you start coming here? < 1340864816 329272 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, how else am i going to stalk kmc? < 1340864822 659619 :augur_!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1340864835 557850 :augur_!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :when did you start coming here? < 1340864849 894028 :augur_!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ANSWER THE QUESTION EDWARDK < 1340864856 87034 :augur_!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :THIS SILENCE IS UNACCEPTABLE < 1340864897 170185 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wandered back a few days ago, but i think i first wandered in here somewhere around 2007-2008 < 1340864904 563694 :augur_!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, me too! < 1340864912 153829 :augur_!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i also suppose i can ask you this then, with some expectation of an actual answer: < 1340864922 502977 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :=P < 1340864926 398513 :augur_!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is one of the weirdest paradigm esolangs < 1340864972 104622 :augur_!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i got rather bored with esolangs because they just inevitably turn out to be some annoying cipher of brainfuck or shit like that < 1340864990 192153 :augur_!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :andi t gets boring after a while, its just a weird machine, nothing truly .. esoteric < 1340865017 996681 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrmm. i tend towards the interesting, i rather enjoy the malbolge/icfp2006 style where you need to more or less cryptanalyze to find a usable subset < 1340865043 941393 :augur_!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. :( < 1340865082 232654 :augur_!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want to find esolangs that are easy to read, but hard to comprehend how to use because they work so oddly < 1340865127 194335 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :balance. that was the name of the esolang in icfp2006 i found fun < 1340865183 834328 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur_: yeah i agree < 1340865195 769408 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the brainfuck clones get very little respect here < 1340865258 457813 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i agree that having weird syntax is the least interesting way a programming language can be weird < 1340865268 669384 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :we need a dependently typed esolang < 1340865275 241978 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but syntax always gets disproportionate attention < 1340865278 780309 :augur_!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :edwardk: isnt that called agda? < 1340865278 982498 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :esolangs are no different i guess < 1340865280 782281 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like aubergine < 1340865284 204279 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :=P < 1340865290 851403 :augur_!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :edwardk: actually i think coq is more that < 1340865294 109958 :augur_!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can understand agda < 1340865299 598888 :augur_!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coq is fuckin opaque < 1340865313 20556 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what are some cool esolangs with "normal-looking" syntax? < 1340865334 87247 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are some where, like, each statement executes with some probability < 1340865334 288437 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't understand functional languages at all, but it seems to me the most interesting divergence is between functional and imperative < 1340865351 479452 :augur_!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: odd < 1340865352 701372 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: those are bullshit categories which mean nothing < 1340865355 136809 :augur_!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :functional languages are easy! < 1340865360 598404 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :every decent language supports both functional and imperative code < 1340865379 970477 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact you can do a lot of great stuff by using the two styles together < 1340865389 55196 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :not just "this part is functional, this part is imperative" < 1340865394 839925 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but actually using the ideas at the same time < 1340865418 45966 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell makes this very clear because "function" and "imperative action" are two distinct first-class data types < 1340865425 740143 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: what is "normal" < 1340865434 138186 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can have a function that returns an action, or takes an action as an argument, or an action which produces a function < 1340865461 642745 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: i mean looking like some of the popular non-esoteric languages < 1340865533 434890 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my conception of functional is basically : left_parenthesis operator operands right_parenthesis < 1340865536 365333 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :well there's that one whosename i cant remember < 1340865550 638522 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: ... < 1340865562 554521 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :where everything can be overloaded < 1340865589 822371 :augur_!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: lolol < 1340865621 132640 :augur_!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: as opposed to imperative, which is operator left_parenthesis operands right_parenthesis < 1340865627 239211 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wish i was joking augur.. i plan to figure out what i don't know gradually < 1340865639 697840 :augur_!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: have you tried watching SICP? < 1340865652 792370 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is like the idea that a language is object oriented if you write x.f(y) instead of f(x,y) < 1340865673 361051 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is ORK which is the logical extreme of smalltalk < 1340865674 808785 :augur_!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: you mean it isnt?! < 1340865676 71041 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok so perhaps it's a matter of types < 1340865702 449781 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: why don't you read a book instead of making wild-ass guesses < 1340865771 296666 :augur_!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: functional programming is basically focused around things returning values, as opposed to setting variables < 1340865799 445949 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i tried reading the wiki page about continuation < 1340865810 309182 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it occured to me that the problem is < 1340865811 647695 :augur_!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god why would you do that < 1340865819 595519 :augur_!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats a horrible thing to do < 1340865828 10632 :augur_!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there, edwardk, i think thats it, continuations < 1340865841 335270 :augur_!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats the most mind rending esolang ever, a language with nothing but continuations < 1340865851 572045 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could adapt my sigma-only dependent type system to make an esolang < 1340865862 427643 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in an imperative language, if you were to do a goto with arguments, there would be nothing to catch the arguments < 1340865865 707741 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :prolog is fun < 1340865867 329181 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :it requires you to work in continuation passing style since lambdas can only yield contradictions < 1340865923 429293 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically take the 'haskell is not not ml' paper and swap to a dependent type system < 1340865937 264081 :augur_!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :edwardk: x,x < 1340865948 381417 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :writing that compiler from lambda calc to pi calc was fun < 1340865949 855407 :augur_!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: you should read lyah < 1340865958 709489 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's kind of like a continuations-only language < 1340865963 272558 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1340865966 337271 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo learning haskell is not the best way to learn FP < 1340865969 987378 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are too many distractions < 1340865971 429791 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i once invented a great semi-functional language < 1340865973 532359 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell is a weird functional language < 1340865984 470176 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should redo that lambda-to-pi calc thing as another 'bound' example < 1340865994 986169 :augur_!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: true < 1340865996 207766 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder how my approach to that compiler compares to milner's < 1340865996 996121 :augur_!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :SICP! < 1340865999 596579 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i bet the latter is simpler < 1340866006 624733 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my BASIC pseudocode of .. 10 IF A = 5 GOTO 30(7,6) 20 PRINT TEST 30 PRINT ARG1,ARG2 < 1340866006 825956 :augur_!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :edwardk: you should write a pi-calculus tutorial! < 1340866016 256578 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i'm just proud of myself for figuring out *a* way on my own :3 < 1340866021 687787 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :=) < 1340866030 376607 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if A != 5 then when it reaches line 30, then there is no arg1 or arg2 < 1340866034 915088 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: did you see bound? < 1340866047 174184 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbnjusltDHk < 1340866051 914779 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :edwardk: no < 1340866095 670961 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: just make the line before it also end with (7,6) < 1340866104 850994 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/ekmett/bound has a few nice examples. notably it makes it a lot easier to deal with bound variables and substiution. you just use Monad and Traversable < 1340866112 90809 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :even without a goto < 1340866126 869839 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :edwardk: cool < 1340866153 362782 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: my example doesn't really make any sense... its probably contradictory < 1340866171 377533 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :been rewriting our entire compiler to use this approach, its cleaning up a lot of bugs =) < 1340866211 988194 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :humm < 1340866238 416261 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: well its how im trying to concieve of continuations < 1340866272 100245 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: ew! :P < 1340866346 689917 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm thinking about writing a post about how 'generalized de bruijn makes de bruijn indices succ less' < 1340866396 837764 :augur_!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :edwardk: do it now < 1340866410 357264 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the generalization? < 1340866419 447932 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can 'succ' trees rather than just variables < 1340866430 993608 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :gives you O(1) weakening instead of requiring a big traversal < 1340866446 106399 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :and makes it cheaper to do instantiation because instantiation doesn't have to step into a succ'd tree < 1340866471 220800 :augur_!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :edwardk: trees? < 1340866473 210223 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically you give me a monad 'f' and i give you a monad transformer: < 1340866477 479245 :augur_!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i feel you should write a blog post about this < 1340866493 640574 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :newtype Scope b f a = Scope (f (Either b (f a))) < 1340866510 161456 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :to lift i use lift = Scope . return . Right < 1340866526 924039 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is cheaper than the lift from EitherT < 1340866531 26646 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1340866572 993762 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you can just use newtype Exp a = Var a | Exp a :@ Exp a | Lam (Scope () Exp a) -- to get binding dealt with, >>= skips over bound variables gracefully < 1340866617 660385 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can use more expotic binders by letting b be something other than () to get simultaneous substitution another generalization on de bruijn < 1340866635 82065 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok so let me try to understand the b = () case first < 1340866636 12024 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :er s/newtype/data obviously < 1340866641 113562 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok suppose I had a program in a language in my head PRINT AREA; AREA = LENGTH x WIDTH; and it waited for me to tell it LENGTH=5; WIDTH=4; then it proceeded to work out AREA=20; PRINT 20 < 1340866646 934400 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :newtype Scope f a = Scope (f (Maybe (f a))) < 1340866670 524527 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1340866702 836369 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :write the monad, the MonadTrans and Traversable instances for that < 1340866707 180405 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the identity function is Lam (Scope (Var Nothing)) ? < 1340866723 208712 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1340866729 261498 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing = Z < 1340866735 633955 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just = S < 1340866738 69900 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see < 1340866762 966263 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that seems weird though < 1340866764 442109 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can only have as many succ's as levels, with everything else being a free variable, so you have no illegal uses of bound variables < 1340866769 922727 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :because i can put a lambda term "inside" a Var < 1340866775 578969 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1340866785 460680 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what does that mean? < 1340866788 913801 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Var itself is a bad name < 1340866804 533196 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh it means like "discard an outer level of binders"? < 1340866809 646204 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1340866814 810850 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1340866826 785311 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :its a weakening < 1340866834 167935 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can weaken entire trees < 1340866854 131583 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/ekmett/bound/blob/master/src/Bound/Scope.hs < 1340866865 149492 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :abstract and instantiate are the key combinators < 1340866881 684750 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :abstract1 and instantiate1 are for use as a MaybeT analogue < 1340866948 877583 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the impression i got from what i read was that i could say PRINT LABEL1; GOTO LABEL1(LABEL2); GOTO LABEL2(4 * LABEL3); GOTO LABEL3(5) < 1340866951 272656 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can mix and match the types b you use at each level < 1340866967 782451 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/ekmett/bound/blob/master/examples/Simple.hs#L20 uses () for Lam and Int for Let < 1340866972 920902 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahh i need to learn to be more cogent < 1340867064 937064 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should probably do a boston haskell talk on it < 1340867106 641284 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :its not entirely novel. everything here has appeared in papers before. bird and patterson describe this operation, but don't lock it up in a monad transformer, and use rank 2 types to pull it off < 1340867132 723993 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the version of abstract and instantiate i use comes from mcbride's "i'm not a number: i am a free variable" < 1340867152 30595 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :(along with the notion of using Scope as a separate type) < 1340867293 510941 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :the abstract combinator makes it easy to get lam "x" (Var "x") to desugar to the type you gave though < 1340867485 350359 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can come up with a more ad hoc version that just uses a GADT for your term type < 1340867526 850165 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Term a where Var :: a -> Term a; Bound :: !Int -> Term (Maybe a); Free :: Term a -> Term (Maybe a); other fields < 1340867539 73049 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :er Bound :: !Int -> Term (Either Int a) < 1340867553 310553 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Free :: Term a -> Term (Either b a) < 1340867962 251910 :trout!~root@freebsd/developer/variable NICK :function < 1340869483 386713 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-25.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1340869589 864263 :FoREALien!~FoREALien@c-98-225-49-68.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1340869895 890035 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-25.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1340870711 326267 :john_metcalf!~digital_w@87.114.122.49 JOIN :#esoteric < 1340871245 54884 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i find it hard to dismiss the fact that if there is any correlation between piety and intelligence, that the pious tend to be more intelligent < 1340871259 878623 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :could i say anything more ignorant and divisive? < 1340871377 257420 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-25.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, in times where the Church was the primary literary body in western Europe, that would have been true < 1340871407 478437 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-25.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aaah, I'm just making crap up < 1340871420 995230 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now you know how i feel behind everything i say! < 1340871425 96390 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-25.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1340871495 687111 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i might not actually know the working definition of pious when i say this though < 1340871545 381508 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1340871549 910135 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think, what i actually mean is < 1340871568 329520 :asiekierka_!~asiekierk@178235038077.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1340871577 652596 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: why do you do it < 1340871579 643480 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that one cannot argue against any religion or belief by sampling the intelligence of it's members < 1340871594 13455 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: i agree that is logicall unsound < 1340871595 164247 :john_metcalf!~digital_w@87.114.122.49 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1340871598 504805 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a maximally biased sample < 1340871668 698743 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: why do you say these things < 1340871674 119982 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you get out of it < 1340871698 192480 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :by your own admission the things you say are completely ignorant and unfounded < 1340871702 686692 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :whether about religion or programming languages < 1340871731 690251 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have basically 2 choices < 1340871759 100758 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can read things, or i can find something to say in irc < 1340871778 303569 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but do you actually learn anything from IRC < 1340871795 344036 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :for all the nonsensical things you've said about haskell, have you learned one true fact about haskell? < 1340871875 158136 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a difference between saying something slightly incorrect and getting a correction < 1340871887 763117 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :versus saying things that are so nonsensically wrong that we don't even know where to start < 1340871896 929507 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the latter seems like a poor way to learn < 1340871928 346795 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ponders. < 1340871938 303150 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i sound angry but honestly i am just completely baffled < 1340871994 32582 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :these days i find it difficult to concentrate. < 1340872006 98016 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least i think i do < 1340872046 808597 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my doctor has been asking me lately if i find it difficult to do so.. and i am not sure if i do or if i'm just lazy < 1340872138 404441 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can read comic books, but i don't think that counts < 1340872247 865812 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1340872313 761125 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-25.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh god help < 1340872318 139451 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-25.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm making a github account < 1340872335 19049 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically i'm trying to build a map in my mind of programming languages < 1340872338 543774 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-25.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Help < 1340872350 778533 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-25.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, I've tried to do that < 1340872353 346015 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-25.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's complicated < 1340872381 573123 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: github is useful < 1340872561 68055 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this might not be relevant, but i can't see any practical use of self-reproducing machines < 1340872591 658374 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :except perhaps in the study of biology and manufacturing < 1340872749 865945 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION head explode < 1340872759 672439 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU ARE A SELF-REPRODUCING MACHINE < 1340872767 107220 :coppro!~scshunt@ascorbic-acid.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ < 1340872792 277869 :coppro!~scshunt@ascorbic-acid.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION enjoys tricking his body into believeing it's reproducing. < 1340872795 279510 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21 is a robot sent from the future to explode heads < 1340872823 763078 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has been proven long ago that there is no perfect body < 1340872871 355305 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fsvo proven :P < 1340872946 965316 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :QUANTUM-LANGUAGE-PARSE-SYNTAX-GRAMMAR is the Correct Language, as it is based on fact. There is no ambiguity with anything Quantum, it is purely Mathematical. Have you ever thought of Language being Mathematical? < 1340872962 3547 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: Do you need help in making a Github account, or help in avoiding making one? < 1340872981 874325 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I don't have help available for either, just curious.) < 1340872986 71764 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: DON'T CALL ME A SELF-REPRODUCING MACHINE! < 1340873037 285071 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also sounds like JUDGE :David-Wynn: Miller there. < 1340873111 577786 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: based on what i have just said, it is perhaps best that " what do you get out of it" remains unanswered < 1340873114 660283 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried to watch some sovereign-citizen courtroom appearances once, but couldn't for more than a minute, due to acute embarrassment. < 1340873144 925225 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1340873161 496549 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're not being paid enough to be my therapist < 1340873163 905894 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 JOIN :#esoteric < 1340873164 738680 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1340873247 185434 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: are they online somewhere? < 1340873281 476552 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[09:44] what's windows? < 1340873282 902592 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[09:45] err, disregarding that due to cognitive dissonance due to meme from another channel < 1340873285 943772 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure you people will understand :) < 1340873289 806138 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a body implies a non-body.. is the perfection of a body a function of the non-body? < 1340873303 487790 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(there's a bit of relevant context but you can probably guess what it is from context) < 1340873314 790484 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well.. i always have some inane comment to add < 1340873322 421305 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1340873449 699405 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: They were a couple of links from some blog posting. I'm sure similar stuff is findable by the usual means, though. < 1340873510 345058 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Also easier to come by are plain transcripts, but I couldn't actually manage to read those either.) < 1340873514 664604 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm out of my programming depth... i spent longer than necessary at school towards a degree.. and yet i dropped out before completing it < 1340873549 168589 :nortti!jhaverin@evo.paivola.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone know if there is any development on k-meleon? < 1340873553 811190 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what i get out of it is that i insist on treading water in the deep end of the pool < 1340873608 914758 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :K-meleon sounds like a clustering algorithm. You know, k-means, k-medians, k-medoids, k-meleon. < 1340873643 58339 :nortti!jhaverin@evo.paivola.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it is mozilla based browser with xul bullshit removed < 1340873643 704384 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It uses the meleons of the clusters somehow, probably. < 1340873658 785447 :nortti!jhaverin@evo.paivola.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :like camino but for windows < 1340873679 320126 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I'm pretty sure it's a clustering algorithm, despite all evidence to contrary. < 1340873697 592266 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You associate each point with the closest meleon. < 1340873812 267142 :nortti!jhaverin@evo.paivola.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :speaking of which is there mozilla-with-xul-bullshit-removed for linux? < 1340873888 12088 :MoALTz_!~no@host-92-8-148-93.as43234.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1340873907 29777 :asiekierka_!~asiekierk@178235038077.elblag.vectranet.pl NICK :asiekierka < 1340873953 903916 :pikhq_!~pikhq@70-56-228-197.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Web" (formerly Epiphany) < 1340873965 112749 :pikhq_!~pikhq@70-56-228-197.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, fuck, they switched to Webkit. < 1340873978 155305 :pikhq_!~pikhq@70-56-228-197.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck GNOME. < 1340874000 902113 :nortti!jhaverin@evo.paivola.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah. galeon uses webkit too, right? < 1340874017 70581 :pikhq_!~pikhq@70-56-228-197.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Galeon is unmaintained. < 1340874030 154320 :pikhq_!~pikhq@70-56-228-197.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But used Gecko. < 1340874034 753440 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol at renaming it to "Web" < 1340874039 159288 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :GUYS CAN WE BE APPLE TOO?? < 1340874040 92435 :nortti!jhaverin@evo.paivola.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1340874060 725690 :MoALTz!~no@host-92-8-148-93.as43234.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1340874072 544529 :nortti!jhaverin@evo.paivola.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well at least they didn't rename in "My country" like in red star os < 1340874084 195646 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know if you went back to 2000 and said that Konqueror's HTML engine was going to take over the world, people would laugh at you < 1340874146 407642 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :If OOo made a browser, it'd probably be called "Browse". < 1340874232 45582 :pikhq_!~pikhq@70-56-228-197.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah, Oracle took over. It'd be called "Oracle Browser" and have a per-seat license. < 1340874248 796281 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oracle Unbreakable Enterprise Browser < 1340874294 441460 :pikhq_!~pikhq@70-56-228-197.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And require a dedicated workstation, as well as a dedicated admin, for each user. < 1340874295 56681 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, did you know Oracle Linux is now freely available? < 1340874299 394831 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://public-yum.oracle.com/ < 1340874314 988293 :nortti!jhaverin@evo.paivola.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oracle linux? < 1340874318 55797 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1340874328 839730 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oracle has a RHEL-based linux distro < 1340874361 457013 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :like CentOS and SciLinux, it is largely built from redhat's sources < 1340874397 369565 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :like Red Hat, they make money on support contracts < 1340874407 687758 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but unlike Red Hat, you can download the binaries for free without a support contract < 1340874488 782923 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: i guess it's that i want to reject as much as possible, without rejecting too much. i am much interested in writing my own languages. with intended end applications of computer games < 1340874492 294242 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't they just dump the whole thing to Apache? < 1340874504 53910 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure Apache could call it "Browse". < 1340874535 514188 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though I'm annoyed that it has components like Draw, Impress, but then the word processing part is Writer. < 1340874538 575782 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :BrowserFactory < 1340874598 911578 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1340874612 868444 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1340874635 603691 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :people doing the same things get the same results, people following the same paths find the same destinations. with such ideas in mind, i want to wander blindfolded and intoxicated! < 1340874696 358221 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should be OpenOffice Writer (word processing), OpenOffice Artist (vector graphics), OpenOffice Accountant (spreadsheets), OpenOffice Orator (presentations), OpenOffice Mathematician (equation editor) and so on, to follow the lead of 'Writer'. < 1340874746 992127 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also back when they still had that '.org' in the name, they could've abbreviated OpenOffice.org Orator as OOoO. < 1340874753 17021 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: there's a flip side to that, at least in mathematics - you need to know what others have done in order to avoid the same mistakes < 1340874769 86483 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: good thing programming has nothing to do with mathematics, am i rite? < 1340874787 341128 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-25.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Past fizzie, I don't know! < 1340874792 966976 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: very good. hand me that curry-howard screwdriver, will you? < 1340874835 524007 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in programming it is ok to make the same mistakes over and over for decades < 1340874846 299268 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact this is industry standard and people will laugh at you if you propose to do otherwise < 1340874847 700798 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i hear. < 1340874855 4343 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i think itidus21 has picked a good field < 1340874885 182157 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't worry, you just have to learn lisp, and then you can learn all the mistakes in their original form! < 1340874889 195832 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not in the field yet though... i do not envision waking up one day to be paid to code < 1340874906 761949 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-25.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's too late1 < 1340874911 732025 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-25.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know have a github account < 1340874922 876483 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: oh shit.. < 1340874926 815771 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: now you can post image macros on all those HILARIOUS javascript and ruby bugs! < 1340874948 547914 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: that's like knowing where the bottleshop is after emptying all your bottles of booze < 1340874961 637534 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-25.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*now < 1340875093 685621 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well, programming will be saved by JVM and Microsoft's CLI < 1340875206 666099 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah right < 1340875233 507138 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-25.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does a .gitignore do!? < 1340875243 524248 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tells git that certain files should not be tracked < 1340875249 673300 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :meaning they won't show up as untracked in 'git status' < 1340875270 670553 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also it warns if you try to 'git add' one < 1340875283 803712 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :used for build products, editor droppings, etc < 1340875289 255037 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :man gitignore < 1340875296 773787 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :saved = trying to create API patenting law < 1340875321 563784 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: needs more dependent types < 1340875469 681058 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i believe that programming and even math isn't infact difficult. it's just that all real-world examples of programming and math are too complex or of low quality < 1340875542 282472 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hits itidus21 with the saucepan ===\__/ < 1340875551 190606 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :SORRY, YOU CROSSED A BORDER THERE < 1340875565 386159 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as i say this i begin to think about how i know what multiplication is < 1340875565 999259 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :nearly lost to humanity < 1340875567 683681 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :hoerjan < 1340875577 799829 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :x==5 < 1340875579 64791 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :x=5 < 1340875581 759546 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops! < 1340875582 374554 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i learned at school obviously < 1340875596 522762 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hshchachaf < 1340875756 886743 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one thing i have realized is that one reason astronomy seems difficult is because i imagine the scale relative to my own scale < 1340875795 441916 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if i imagine a planet being the size of an apple, then the whole question of scale seems silly < 1340875801 495624 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1340875845 345166 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk JOIN :#esoteric < 1340875848 919754 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk QUIT :Client Quit < 1340875854 976285 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just gotta plug in the numbers systematically < 1340876054 994185 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise it's difficult for exactly the same reasons that to an unaided observer the sky looks like it's covered in white spots < 1340876157 109535 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :goes quiet now < 1340876244 565920 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :if (status = UNDER_ATTACK) launch_nuclear_missiles(); /* find the bug */ < 1340876292 640462 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i can still see shachaf's text onscreen < 1340876305 371202 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think that quite qualifies as a bug. < 1340876309 334457 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though I suppose it might. < 1340876314 745284 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no bug! < 1340876317 983251 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1340876370 562556 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: perfectly valid conservative programming < 1340876410 474842 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the bug is in the language which allows such code to be valid < 1340876411 849791 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define UNDER_ATTACK 0 < 1340876425 543835 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::o shachaf u saved the world < 1340876466 499193 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shachaf University saves the world again. < 1340876522 413797 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf university always keeps proper backups < 1340876558 829290 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :øh nø < 1340876582 322900 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :im trying to figure out why i didn't spot that < 1340876612 416626 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :øøps < 1340876626 132684 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess i always assuemed that in, if (a=b) c(); , that b!= 0 < 1340876662 133328 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^assumed < 1340876696 978435 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :aßumed < 1340876697 179618 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-25.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only if c is called < 1340876730 607442 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1340876731 691345 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-25.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :subsumed < 1340876828 886613 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or i might have assumed that a status constant != 0 < 1340876952 573066 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :if (status = PARIAH) < 1340877472 176930 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :AẞUMED. (Thank you, Unicode 5.1.) < 1340877516 148565 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(U+1E9E LATIN CAPITAL LETTER SHARP S was added in 5.1.) < 1340877574 683080 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :AнA < 1340877688 914905 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh no, it's a вомв. < 1340877759 45634 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-18-137.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1340877944 964310 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Аге ше шгітіиб іи сугілліc? < 1340878105 771136 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Ѩ. < 1340878272 187949 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :vodka < 1340878439 280919 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :horse ebooks < 1340878472 678831 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :horse devours < 1340878494 34749 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if you haven t noticed, crepes have come a long way < 1340878528 67010 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Are you playing itidus21? < 1340878539 834753 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21 ebooks < 1340878546 131069 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's best to let itidus21 play itidus21 < 1340878562 448720 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa, dude < 1340878567 94071 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you see what itidus21 just said? < 1340878583 487843 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a sensible and true statement! < 1340878589 291139 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-25.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how adverts for Internet Explorer are "We do stuff that pretty much every other major browser also does, but you've heard of us!" < 1340878601 81197 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admittedly this statement wouldn't be necessary if it weren't for all of itidus21's other statements. < 1340878621 325559 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm working on such a statement as we speak < 1340878656 657816 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :While Sitting In Your Most Comfortable Chair, Quickly Discover The Missing Links That Rapidly Catapults Your Ability to Devastate, Humiliate < 1340878679 75790 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are we Playing the capitalization Game Now < 1340878682 2345 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Faithfully As An Oil Rig < 1340878688 420947 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what i do.. is guaranteed to blow your mind < 1340878692 114808 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fan Fan Fan Local Local Horse Steam Jet Fan Room and pillar- Room and pillar. Shaft Shaft What Cheer What Cheer Holliday < 1340878697 359277 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :theres no ifs or buts about it < 1340878765 540053 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one integer has as much meaning as the next, but it is such a small subset of english expressions which have a discernable meaning, that i wonder if we intentionally leave room for meaningless expressions in order to create new meanings < 1340878836 180315 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but such an intention would be reifying the processes of language development < 1340878904 400397 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1340878984 935737 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then again, we already create new meanings upon existing expressions < 1340879099 338817 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so where does this take me.. we could interpret a single symbol nondeterministically < 1340879114 518859 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well sometimes language needs cromulent embiggening < 1340879273 197003 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1340879324 552247 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Error: encountered non-deterministic expression. please be an oracle. your choices are 1)increment 2)decrement 3)set to 17 < 1340879416 989903 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :logging "user itidus21 has selected increment." < 1340879817 153943 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-18-137.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a programming language that modifies it syntax to be correct yet? < 1340879817 995085 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-18-137.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :*its < 1340880098 632879 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :does /// count? < 1340880426 472897 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-18-137.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well it seems that in /// there is little syntax < 1340880478 390404 :Deewiant!~deewiant@109.75.188.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you mean "modifies itself to do what the programmer meant", no; if you mean "does something regardless of what you type in", sure. < 1340880554 821562 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-18-137.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean the latter, that is, everything will be considered as correct syntax and will have a meaning < 1340880574 593902 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm didn't oklotalk do something like that < 1340880595 514523 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait, was it oklopol's Clue < 1340880613 922116 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION isn't remembering < 1340880636 67672 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-18-137.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Clue < 1340880642 166504 :Deewiant!~deewiant@109.75.188.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Befunge. < 1340880644 143679 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-18-137.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems there are 2 Clue languages < 1340880653 489112 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, there are < 1340880689 293482 :Deewiant!~deewiant@109.75.188.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Malbolge, I think. < 1340880739 116214 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, malbolge has strict restrictions on which characters can go in which positions < 1340880755 417681 :Deewiant!~deewiant@109.75.188.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, okay. < 1340880778 371193 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-18-137.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :The language should have unicode as the alphabet < 1340880806 755362 :Deewiant!~deewiant@109.75.188.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's UniCode, which is obviously unfinished. < 1340880818 89593 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :/// has no problem using utf-8 i think :P < 1340880831 537405 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: And Uniquode, too. < 1340880851 179509 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It's even more unfinished.) < 1340880853 873345 :Deewiant!~deewiant@109.75.188.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Befunge-98 can use Unicode fine if the interpreter supports it, but it's not very interesting because most characters will just reflect the IP. < 1340880867 476834 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can put in larger data values, though. < 1340881120 138074 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't be surprised if many of the "2D" languages were in that sense syntax-free. < 1340881127 498489 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :2L seems to, for example. < 1340881307 595228 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of Iota and Jot, i think... < 1340881310 174169 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION bounces back in. < 1340881360 304304 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Jot, I think. < 1340881377 865950 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, it seems i have more ego left than i thought in relation to programming. < 1340881448 387033 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think dijkstra might be conflicted about devoting his life's work to computers but opting not to use one < 1340881479 941613 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and apparently it's becoming a theme in silicon valley for people to send their kids to computer-less schools < 1340881500 510010 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe there is a wave of computer scientists who abhor computers on the horizon < 1340881564 434807 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :+[+[+<]>>-<]+> (14, 5) for 223 < 1340881637 323479 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and -[-[-<]>>-<]+> for 175, but there are already 14b solutions for 175 < 1340881690 721199 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :computers good for the economy though, but anything which is good for the economy is bad for the environment < 1340881714 821407 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wow. < 1340881720 168193 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION head explode < 1340881742 547375 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it takes electricity to power the internet after all. < 1340881783 867944 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :+[>+>[+<]>+]>> sadly runs through the whole tape to produce 64 :( < 1340882318 709316 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh < 1340882328 102090 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :david.werecat accidentaly removed 223 :( < 1340882368 574389 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thought he had checked such things... < 1340882430 209574 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh todya < 1340882493 125266 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT : < 1340882545 79280 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf ++[+[>]<-<++]>. < 1340882545 767511 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :H < 1340882573 512090 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's some very freaky program I found there :) < 1340882585 314959 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :And It consumes 7 cells. < 1340882589 370233 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's 1B shorter :D < 1340882669 776443 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow. < 1340882673 852536 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is a very good range :) < 1340882709 211062 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :>+[+[>]<-<++]> (14, 8) wrapping for 59 < 1340882719 885691 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf >+[+[>]<-<++]>. < 1340882720 708638 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :; < 1340882867 321901 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :the [>] actually looks very suspicios. < 1340882875 747867 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's not :) < 1340882934 298583 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-18-137.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1340882940 517396 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is a "range"? < 1340882954 597622 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: i agree with david_werecat that initial >'s should be used instead of solutions going to the left of start < 1340883088 586330 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. < 1340883090 833202 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see. < 1340883121 228796 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :well then most of them are not valid in your terms. < 1340883126 414270 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :as they go way below zero < 1340883140 726384 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially the solution consuming up to 9 cells ;) < 1340883145 581631 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :your new ones you mean? < 1340883148 736447 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1340883150 791969 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :My new ones. < 1340883198 807172 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :they do seem to stretch the format < 1340883212 768204 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :The wiki did not specify that. < 1340883222 397495 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just presumed that wrapping applies to the tape as well ;) < 1340883239 37532 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, that's not assumed no. < 1340883250 531198 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, I added a comment to all my solution that they go below zero < 1340883264 796398 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :*solutions < 1340883325 588370 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :My list is not even complete < 1340883333 512492 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have around 10 more solutions like the previous ones. < 1340883354 183709 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's more that these solutions are intended to be usable as subroutines in programs, which means there should be enough information to tell what surrounding cells are needed. and preferable in a machine-readable format (i've extracted it before, e.g. for pikhq_'s BFM system) < 1340883356 41811 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because solutions with a wrapping tape are way shorter. < 1340883370 507629 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose the page should actually _say_ that somewhere :P < 1340883381 25956 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it should have :) < 1340883421 42981 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-127-153.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1340883444 640036 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: There's that discussion about a proposed format from 2010 but nothing seems to have come out of it. < 1340883603 902277 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Surprisingly, [Hollerith] did not get the idea from the work of Babbage, but rather from watching a train conductor punch tickets." -- this is how one arrives at good ideas, watching train conductors < 1340883644 460786 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :So staring at a superconductor must logically result in superb ideas. < 1340883676 377251 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION dies from the pun. < 1340883716 260660 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :a very cold hearted pun < 1340883878 900371 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codepad.org/ETZz4afE < 1340883886 445091 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :^- That's the output of the first 16 ranges. < 1340883897 77871 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are DOZENS of shorter solutions in that output < 1340883904 630142 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I assume they all need tape wrapping. < 1340883971 969313 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: tape wrapping should be probably be mentioned specifically < 1340883997 163762 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :A seperate list? < 1340884002 896662 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :or in the comment? < 1340884013 2818 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I already mentioned it in the comment for the corresponding entry < 1340884022 603667 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :*entries < 1340884032 192791 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :But If you say that you won't allow it < 1340884033 569367 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MP_rNaJ1vOw I could cry of happiness < 1340884038 288277 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I won't even bother checking the output anymore < 1340884041 183520 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mentioned it went to the left, but not that it went all the way _around_ the tape < 1340884041 637775 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This song was in a game I used to play < 1340884047 117000 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's of no use then ;) < 1340884049 357383 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Never thought I'd find it independtly < 1340884056 237652 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A google, just a few minutes ago, found it < 1340884063 242233 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.indiegamer.com/archives/t-208.html < 1340884064 998494 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1340884116 233522 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: i interpreted your comment as saying that some of the cells used were to the left of the start, not that it used a circular tape < 1340884147 163748 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: A room-temperature pun would would be a very beneficial discovery indeed. < 1340884186 322625 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(wrapping cells, tape) could be the format, assuming they wrap on values as well < 1340884210 818349 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yes. < 1340884225 736340 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cells to the left and to the right are used. < 1340884237 5383 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which means that cell 0 < -> cell 255 < 1340884252 528431 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but of course, if you're at cell 100, it does not need wrapping, yes. < 1340884258 921591 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: there's no assumption a tape has _length_ 256 < 1340884268 412765 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yes. < 1340884270 576352 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok. < 1340884279 170121 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :They don't require circular tape. < 1340884287 164738 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :They just consume cells to the left and to the right. < 1340884295 182564 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact if there is no mention, i would assume the tape needs to be no longer than the number of cells used < 1340884316 817124 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: oh. well then inserting >'s at the beginning would be enough to disambiguate. < 1340884321 143750 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because all solutions actually requiring a circular tape only produce the right number with the same tape length :D < 1340884334 433805 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yes, but then the solution is not shorter anymore ;) < 1340884343 548568 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i guess... < 1340884354 296162 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd have to add >>>>>>>> to some solution < 1340884361 250903 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would make them 7 B longer :) < 1340884381 625177 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean < 1340884389 973756 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could check if some solutions would still be shorter. < 1340884399 364358 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps a different format for cell no. then? -7..2 < 1340884415 181837 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :-[-[-<]>>+<]+> is 5B shorter < 1340884418 439731 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and requires 5 cells < 1340884423 994046 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it might actually still be shorter. < 1340884454 644273 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: it should say somewhere how _many_ cells to the left it uses < 1340884459 225969 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :>-[-[-<]>>+<]+> does not drop below zero anymore < 1340884462 254084 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but is still shorter < 1340884464 141670 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :in some way < 1340884536 705048 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok. < 1340884538 368281 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll do that. < 1340884548 75286 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll add as many > as required to not drop below zero < 1340884692 377818 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Awesome is awesome. < 1340885133 415488 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1340885138 315802 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :so far 33 and 200 can stay < 1340885264 498553 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :223 can stay. < 1340885402 490115 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. < 1340885414 687076 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :106 is new. < 1340885428 926266 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, there are still shorter solutions in the output to find with > added to the start \o/ < 1340885532 884562 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1340886506 26051 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf -[>+[+<+]->+]>. < 1340886509 258226 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :. < 1340886519 33914 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :does not even require me to add > < 1340886875 546299 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1340887061 312808 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-18-137.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1340887234 560976 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1340887413 888496 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1340887509 346268 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1340888038 4488 :VorpalPhone!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1340888756 211268 :cheater__!~cheater@p508961DC.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1340888826 679043 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not bad though. < 1340888850 60570 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :22 new shorter non-drop-below-zero wrapping brainfuck constants < 1340888859 62592 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1340888883 726869 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have to automate this process though. < 1340888898 398785 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm only at 1/3 of results yet :( < 1340888942 38640 :cheater_!~cheater@p50897809.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1340889030 576101 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :The smaller a program is, it consumes more cycles and more cells. < 1340889155 960747 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is there no information included AT which cell a constant stops? < 1340889203 380787 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe if it uses three cells it might stop at the second < 1340889252 869917 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which would not be that convenient :) < 1340889380 812614 :AnotherTest1!~Test@94-224-18-137.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1340889381 51827 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-18-137.access.telenet.be QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1340889415 164266 :cheater__!~cheater@p508961DC.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1340889640 768263 :AnotherTest1!~Test@94-224-18-137.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1340890992 4246 :VorpalPhone!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/anmaster QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1340891101 85998 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow I found a huge beetle (approx 2.5 cm in length) on the stairs outside. Iridescent... Never seen anything like it < 1340891305 289696 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-127-153.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au NICK :Patashu[Zzz] < 1340891598 881490 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-25.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, let it bite you, you may get superpowers! < 1340891603 588771 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1340891614 2181 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll upload some photos in a second < 1340891787 188388 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :uploading atm < 1340891827 846740 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :taking some time... < 1340891860 728846 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-25.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The weather looks ominous < 1340891895 585585 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish my upload speed was higher than 1 Mbit/s... < 1340891936 787276 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-25.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, that's like, one eighth of mine < 1340891944 954586 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-25.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except I think I've reached my data limit < 1340891953 250242 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, I have 8 mbit/s down and 1 mbit/s up < 1340891955 519477 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ADSL) < 1340891959 333416 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-25.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay < 1340891971 606382 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-25.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :8 mbit/s down, barely anything up < 1340892005 104223 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least you have 1 mbit/s up :) < 1340892010 643602 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :only one image left to upload now < 1340892035 91017 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.dropbox.com/gallery/87474461/1/Beetle?h=516644 < 1340892037 367620 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :there < 1340892054 953367 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :the beetle in question was approximately 2 cm < 1340892058 794993 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe 2.5 < 1340892063 767930 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :about there anyway < 1340892070 586782 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1340892077 90969 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-25.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are there many spiders in Sweden? < 1340892098 21779 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, well the usual ones, no poisonous ones though. < 1340892108 491794 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-25.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How large do they get? < 1340892113 838623 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but probably less than some parts of the world, and more than others < 1340892131 978155 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, not sure. I tend to kill the ones I see (I don't like spiders) < 1340892148 166234 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-25.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I may have to warn an arachnophobic Swedenophile) < 1340892160 73241 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, how large to they get in UK? < 1340892188 191323 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: nice beetle! < 1340892194 443012 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-25.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, the largest could fit easily into the bottom of a pint glass < 1340892203 249932 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily, yeah, right on my doorstep a few minutes ago < 1340892215 79971 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, how large is a pint glass? < 1340892223 602730 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-25.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Half a litre? < 1340892246 490253 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, what about the dimensions though? You could have a very narrow and tall one for example < 1340892258 648447 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or a very wide and low one < 1340892346 291626 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-25.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Pint_Glass_(Pub).svg < 1340892364 994770 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, I don't see any scale on that? < 1340892377 955816 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :just give me the diameter or something (metric) < 1340892389 799571 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-25.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :15 cm tall < 1340892400 820507 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and diameter? Since that is what is relevant here < 1340892416 333859 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-25.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :2.5 centimetres wider in diameter at the top than the bottom < 1340892437 261163 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that still doesn't help < 1340892449 879517 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-25.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Comfortable to hold in your hand? < 1340892452 825597 :Deewiant!~deewiant@109.75.188.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's just reading the wikipedia article, give him some time < 1340892462 968662 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1340892468 858139 :Deewiant!~deewiant@109.75.188.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Although it doesn't look like it has the diameter measurement) < 1340892484 959363 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well then, in that case I don't know if there are spiders larger than that < 1340892498 733789 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have seen some with very long legs (and very small body usually) < 1340892521 150064 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I wonder which species that beetle I found is < 1340892521 391511 :Deewiant!~deewiant@109.75.188.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Harvestmen < 1340892530 693848 :Deewiant!~deewiant@109.75.188.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're not spiders < 1340892533 342769 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk JOIN :#esoteric < 1340892536 103012 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, oh? < 1340892545 175377 :Deewiant!~deewiant@109.75.188.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harvestmen < 1340892549 594171 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1340892559 288641 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1340892570 658520 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :too spidery for my taste anyway < 1340892571 557379 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1340892596 742278 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah I would really like to know the species of http://www.dropbox.com/gallery/87474461/1/Beetle?h=516644 < 1340892600 493242 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea how to find out < 1340892613 513490 :Deewiant!~deewiant@109.75.188.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've seen those < 1340892620 200473 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? I never seen them before < 1340892626 760685 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :very pretty, also really large < 1340892665 552500 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it pulled in it's legs when I got close, so that is why it is curled up in the photos < 1340892678 671603 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(btw, I think for a phone camera that was fairly good) < 1340892729 224698 :Deewiant!~deewiant@109.75.188.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cotinis_mutabilis ? < 1340892749 357629 :Deewiant!~deewiant@109.75.188.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not quite < 1340892777 40539 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was not dull green < 1340892781 791446 :Deewiant!~deewiant@109.75.188.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And heh, US/Mexico < 1340892792 404396 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was strongly iridescent green on the back < 1340892877 441367 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION whats at the existence of .rmi < 1340892888 620385 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, .rmi being? < 1340892903 458780 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A MIDI in a RIFF thingy < 1340892906 255587 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.fileinfo.com/extension/rmi < 1340892916 725926 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Are those little protrusions legs? 'cuz if so, that ain't a beetle... < 1340892917 480786 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. < 1340892924 796776 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages < 1340892925 416644 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia said 12h 32m 28s ago: bfjoust is broke. maybe my attempted replacement for the bash script is broke? I DON'T KNOW ENOUGH TO FIX IT GREGOR D: < 1340892931 635213 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust suicide < < 1340892937 890850 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't change anything... < 1340892951 298451 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, hm? What protursions? It had legs out, but it pulled them in when I got near. I think it wants to be a turtle when it grows up ;) < 1340892961 933634 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resource_Interchange_File_Format#Initial_difficulties_with_MIDI_Files < 1340892978 46981 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, you can see the legs by the side in the 5th image < 1340893000 492153 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Oh, I didn't realize it was a series X_X < 1340893006 747710 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, right < 1340893093 400641 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, didn't the link go to some overview album page or something? It does for me, though I'm logged into my dropbox account < 1340893109 669640 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust suicide < < 1340893128 259044 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It went to a particular image, with a series of images at the top in a menubar. < 1340893130 248449 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1340893137 633572 :Deewiant!~deewiant@109.75.188.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cetonia_aurata < 1340893177 175304 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :DAMN. IT. WEB. ARCHIVE. < 1340893190 84804 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, looks like it, mine was more yellow green than the wikipedia picture though < 1340893196 519827 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I search for a URL, I do NOT want to be redirected based on the existence of present-day redirects < 1340893215 800544 :Deewiant!~deewiant@109.75.188.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I think it depends a bit on viewing angle :-P < 1340893221 259939 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :also they say 20 mm, kind of fits. Looked like slightly more than that though < 1340893227 599539 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust suicide < < 1340893232 792426 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, didn't see the underside < 1340893234 281717 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for Gregor_suicide: 0.0 < 1340893235 581984 :Deewiant!~deewiant@109.75.188.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: But it does say that the colour varies < 1340893252 511033 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm yeah < 1340893258 576744 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, how did you manage to find it? < 1340893260 87424 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :... dahell < 1340893265 42011 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, there we go. < 1340893288 93968 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, also compared to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Cetonia_aurata_%28Linnaeus_1761%29.jpg mine seemed to have thinner legs < 1340893291 1013 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure though < 1340893300 43059 :Deewiant!~deewiant@109.75.188.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: After a bunch of googling I ended up with the search terms 'shiny yellow green beetle europe' and http://www.memidex.com/cetonia-aurata was the fifth result < 1340893306 544990 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1340893310 120995 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :impressive < 1340893328 594866 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(google and you) < 1340893355 971883 :Deewiant!~deewiant@109.75.188.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The Finnish wikipedia has more pictures: https://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kultakuoriainen < 1340893377 746734 :Deewiant!~deewiant@109.75.188.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :As does the Swedish: https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gr%C3%A4sgr%C3%B6n_guldbagge < 1340893405 589638 :Deewiant!~deewiant@109.75.188.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've looked those up before, I recognize that Finnish name :-P < 1340893419 393237 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :the beetle I found didn't seem inclined to fly away btw. < 1340893428 116923 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :very pedestrian < 1340893462 449871 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :the .fi one didn't have that many pictures < 1340893467 901269 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Swedish one does though < 1340893469 285335 :Deewiant!~deewiant@109.75.188.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah I don't think I've seen them fly much < 1340893486 576991 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the V shape thingy mentioned is indeed there < 1340893489 82916 :Deewiant!~deewiant@109.75.188.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well it had at least the one main picture with two of them < 1340893494 790419 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess I'll add some metadata to the image locally < 1340893536 722082 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :As I went futher back in the archive, I found more games < 1340893546 144849 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess game publishers started pulling out from Dexterity? < 1340893602 373335 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, what are you talking about? < 1340893617 259948 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, dexterity.com < 1340893623 306340 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Used to have a bunch of shareware games < 1340893676 334437 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :lets see how good dropbox is at syncing if I just add metadata to the images < 1340893692 589638 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like it is uploading a lot, takes some time. But not as much time as the original upload < 1340893700 251573 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so a somewhat smart algorithm I guess < 1340893731 204608 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that dropbox seems to show image metadata, oh well < 1340893804 608097 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems to handle a name change well though < 1340893895 397272 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, also wikipedia seems to indicate it likes sunny warm spots, while I found it in the shadow on the north side of the house < 1340893922 529194 :Deewiant!~deewiant@109.75.188.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like sleeping; doesn't mean I'm always in my bed. < 1340893936 496189 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1340894078 508058 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-18-137.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1340894098 517289 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-18-137.access.telenet.be NICK :AnotherTet < 1340894103 18180 :AnotherTet!~Test@94-224-18-137.access.telenet.be NICK :AnotherTest < 1340894649 840266 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1340895092 167644 :derdon!~derdon@pD9E1D33E.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1340896764 255941 :nortti!jhaverin@evo.paivola.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://gawker.com/5532226/swat-team-raids-house-shoots-dogs-over-small-amount-of-marijuana < 1340898110 101862 :MDream!~fyrc@67.232.231.162 NICK :MDude < 1340899502 223010 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-25.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1340899547 946772 :FoREALien!~FoREALien@c-98-225-49-68.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1340899845 523111 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-25.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1340899933 570971 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-25.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1340899975 585141 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :As if! < 1340900199 610969 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti: They seem to have a sort of a well-established policy of shooting as many dogs as possible; there's been quite a few stories like that. < 1340900213 822044 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/27/cop-shoots-dog-puppycide_n_1446841.html "A search of news articles from the past year shows more than 100 separate incidents." < 1340900224 338234 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose in some of those there's been some amount of self-defence going on. < 1340900237 760993 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :But e.g. the dog in the article's picture does not look incredibly threatening. < 1340900271 425333 :john_metcalf!~digital_w@87.112.175.187 JOIN :#esoteric < 1340900274 853 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In recent years, police officers have shot and killed chihuahuas, miniature dachshunds, Wheaton terriers, and Jack Russell terriers. Last month, a California police officer shot and killed a boxer puppy and pregnant chihuahua, claiming the boxer had threatened him. The chihuahua, he said, got caught in the crossfire." < 1340900279 599295 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sort of stuff. < 1340901522 945227 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's just say that If a dog attacks me and I had a gun... < 1340901529 86872 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might be really tempted to shoot him. < 1340901551 459459 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-25.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If a dog attacks me and I had a gun < 1340901558 188488 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :And by attacking I mean "coming at me" < 1340901561 913406 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-25.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd be panicking so much about me having a gun < 1340901567 325648 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-25.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd forget about the dog < 1340901568 515539 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :because if he is just in front of me, it's too late to react. < 1340901585 502463 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :So obviously you either should him while he's charging at you or you don't. < 1340901602 571714 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shoot < 1340901603 229511 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-25.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if the dog just wants to lick you in the face < 1340901610 593886 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: There is no way of knowing that. < 1340901615 815234 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :He might as well bite you in the face. < 1340901653 544957 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is exactly the point. < 1340901660 315475 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have to stop a dog before he reaches you. < 1340901690 138316 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Common sense when dealing with animals. < 1340901723 70837 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Small dogs ARE NOT less dangerous then big dangerous looking dogs. < 1340901728 123479 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :*than < 1340901748 587915 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the kids shouldn't have let their marijuana use escalate to police involvement < 1340901767 945422 :Guest34050!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi NICK :oklopol < 1340901768 731878 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i should read the article before commenting < 1340901772 642705 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even if a small dog bites you the wound is still very serious. < 1340901781 586000 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :except it is a very very small dog. < 1340901795 43013 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still, infection is not unlikely. < 1340901819 745968 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Taneb: There is no way of knowing that. < 1340901820 180004 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : He might as well bite you in the face. < 1340901820 379245 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : which is exactly the point. < 1340901838 876870 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well there is, the article even mentions that the American Humane Society offers courses on it. < 1340901855 86669 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well < 1340901872 913229 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I have to take courses on how to "mind read" dogs in order to be safe on the streets < 1340901888 390270 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just plain weird. < 1340901894 107009 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is *not* acceptable for police to kill domestic animals engaging in perfectly normal domestic animal behaviour just because it could possibly be dangerous. < 1340901917 676994 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well. < 1340901922 934271 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh sorry, I didn't realise you live somewhere full of aggressive feral dogs. < 1340901923 133823 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :If a police officers tells you to stop < 1340901926 911381 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you just keep walking to him < 1340901928 55066 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey if you didn't want your dog to get shot, you shouldn't have become possibly falsely suspected of owning a small amount of a fairly harmless plant < 1340901930 265542 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :What would he do? < 1340901937 668335 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman, then it is not acceptable for him to shoot you. < 1340901952 926172 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you are armed with a knife. < 1340901953 634130 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are plenty of reasons someone could do that without being a threat. < 1340901988 474945 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: depends who is the judge of acceptability < 1340902007 28023 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: Only if he can't hear or understand you. < 1340902008 560526 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yes. < 1340902009 17457 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fwiw it's not me < 1340902017 416027 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :He shouldn't shoot him just for that. < 1340902034 115749 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :But still... < 1340902046 699453 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's why police officers are always in a dangerous position. < 1340902067 75149 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :next they'll say that if you elect the right mayors, governors and presidents and prime ministers/premiers, that the laws would somehow be magically fixed < 1340902086 616629 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :But consider that a very dangerous looking dog with fletching teeth is charging at you < 1340902090 673191 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :What would you do? < 1340902094 358399 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that the people are somehow responsible.. maybe they are... but in order to be responsible for the police you really need to have the power to stop them < 1340902096 231259 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :He still just might want to lick your face ;) < 1340902137 651604 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's me? Then yes, I would try to defend myself, especially as we're assuming I'm in a public place. < 1340902160 352462 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exactly. < 1340902171 128055 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Police -are not meant to react like I would-. < 1340902175 977305 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you can't "win" < 1340902178 926009 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :No swap the dangerous looking dog with a regular dog. < 1340902188 767846 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :You probably wouldn't consider him a threat. < 1340902197 64591 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're certainly not allowed to kill the police in self-defence < 1340902210 660889 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would. < 1340902214 123522 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, that's pretty hazy, actually. < 1340902216 470111 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :because to me he's still a threat. < 1340902219 659572 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_> < 1340902228 304090 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also I have a dog phobia. < 1340902231 244605 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's probably not a good place to be < 1340902233 960972 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :So every dog is a threat to me < 1340902277 392328 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also.. I wan't to be able to walk on the streets with my hungry lion. < 1340902279 957272 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman, and as I keep telling you, this is not comparable to the situation with police. < 1340902287 284473 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because she's such a nice cat. < 1340902289 148269 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please stop making ridiculous analogies. < 1340902308 295452 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: well i'm not brave.. i endure days in life where i have let the bad people win... < 1340902318 514891 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dunno whats best really < 1340902332 443825 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-18-137.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are we talking about dogs? I'm scared. < 1340902333 663118 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :considering a turtle lives longer than 120 years < 1340902334 811859 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :They are not ridiculous. < 1340902339 396712 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :They just don't involve flexible moral. < 1340902355 700615 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :As kmc pointed out, there is no reasonable course of action for a dog owner to take to avoid their dog getting killed. < 1340902384 174413 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Other than maybe keep it in a cage. < 1340902412 691730 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think kmc was being sarcastic < 1340902412 892673 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes. < 1340902414 412626 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree. < 1340902415 495436 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1340902419 464113 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that counts for every animal. < 1340902449 991602 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the bad kind of sarcasm where truth is sarcasm < 1340902464 454554 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your point seems to simply be that *you* have an irrational fear of dogs and thus it's completely justified to kill them on the spot if they look at you funny. < 1340902481 610936 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not exactly. < 1340902500 533122 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :My point is you shouldn't treat dogs different than other animals. < 1340902534 268117 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know about you but I don't automatically assume all animals want to gore me. < 1340902543 646011 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :So... you shouldn't shoot them as a matter of protocol? I mean, I don't think they have a habit of shooting anything else. < 1340902576 460515 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-18-137.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: don't dogs want to protected their owner. If you happen to be trying to arrest the owner, they would attack you? < 1340902607 540542 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest, in several of those cases the owner wasn't even present at the time. < 1340902626 933668 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-18-137.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the property of the owner then? < 1340902637 8365 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just not a big fan of "subjective views" when it comes to laws. < 1340902660 292593 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :or policies. < 1340902666 518922 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Either they count or they don't. < 1340902672 320191 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm guessing you don't live in a common-law country. < 1340902690 312588 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the police can break the law whenever they want < 1340902694 78819 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are rarely punished for it < 1340902696 160692 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean. < 1340902708 117216 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You may shoot dangerous dogs when they attack you" < 1340902713 948094 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You may not shoot harmless dogs" < 1340902718 780465 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :cops have a code of honor which says they will lie to protect fellow cops < 1340902718 981668 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-18-137.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I don't agree. Well, maybe they can, but they shouldn't be able to(trias politicas?) < 1340902720 837474 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um... < 1340902728 595602 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would leave the question WHEN a dog is dangerous. < 1340902731 372553 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they understand the criminal justice system obviously < 1340902734 110935 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and have connections < 1340902741 292511 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically like any other organized crime < 1340902744 360110 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but with massive state funding < 1340902753 8713 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's just too subjective @dangerous or not. < 1340902762 331844 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meanwhile as it stands you just want it to be legal to... well, kill any dog if it looks at you funny? < 1340902764 858694 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: well they lie over the most trivial things. i learned this once < 1340902767 760816 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1340902773 950245 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I take no joy in killing animalas. < 1340902775 791947 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :*animals < 1340902785 546492 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I said nothing about joy. < 1340902809 421062 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :some cops told my neighbours i confessed to stealing underwear off their clothesline.. < 1340902814 70971 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-18-137.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: dogs /are/ not dangerous/not-dangerous, they can all become dangerous < 1340902833 589105 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the way you've said it it's legal to kill a dog so long as you thought it was a threat with no effort at all to define what a reasonable definition of threat is. < 1340902839 855903 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, well i didn't steal them, and i didn't confess < 1340902854 614607 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: If he does not charge at you he's not dangerous at that point. < 1340902861 980364 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :If he charges at you he's dangerous. < 1340902863 88023 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: Dogs are not delicious/non-delicious, they can all become delicious. < 1340902904 793805 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-18-137.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't kill a cow you do not own. Maybe you shouldn't be allowed to kill a dog you do not own? < 1340902914 29020 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest, no, that doesn't work either. < 1340902923 136727 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can kill a cow you don't own if the cow is attacking you. < 1340902927 429158 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-25.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest, what happens if a cow charges at you? < 1340902930 297195 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can kill a person you don't own if they're attacking you. < 1340902931 774268 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-25.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(cows are really scary) < 1340902935 65176 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because for one thing police /do/ need to be able to defend themselves against guard dogs. < 1340902949 372724 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you can't really kill another person even if he does attack you. < 1340902953 803671 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The problem is when they can get away with killing any dog that moves towards them. < 1340902957 344256 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman, ...yes you can? < 1340902965 981355 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :If he just hits you in the face you can't. < 1340902971 30216 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know of any legal system which outlaws self-defence. < 1340902981 686883 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: self-defence is restricted to < 1340902985 288274 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :"reasonable defence" < 1340903001 20552 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Killing an opponent just because he hit you in the face is not reasonable. < 1340903002 668404 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-18-137.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor(" You can kill a person you don't own if they're attacking you."): that depends of the time we are in < 1340903009 665048 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-18-137.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :and county! < 1340903015 636995 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least in my country it is restricted. < 1340903032 267760 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :You probably are not even allowed to break his arm or something like that. < 1340903058 6895 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You would definitely be allowed to break their arm. < 1340903068 80693 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-18-137.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :In some countries you can kill a woman if you sleep with another woman.(well that was in the newspaper...) < 1340903082 95375 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least, if it constituted a defence from further assault. < 1340903094 131689 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: "Reasonable" is again pretty vague. I mean, I think in the states people can and do shoot regular burglars. There was this one guy who had his car stolen, and then when the thief was driving away, shot and killed him. If I'm not mistaken, that was considered reasonable. < 1340903094 968289 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well no. < 1340903096 363633 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Technically < 1340903099 488208 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where the line is actually drawn is determined, at least here, by a jury. < 1340903100 829805 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-18-137.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: self-defense is allowed I think < 1340903101 903619 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :If he hit you in the face < 1340903102 967388 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The states being the united ones. < 1340903106 623849 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are NOT ALLOWED to do anything. < 1340903132 361343 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's basically impossible to actually say what they are ahead of time. < 1340903133 494981 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because then you would be hitting him. < 1340903135 608737 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's illegal. < 1340903143 816941 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :...except when it's in self-defence. < 1340903168 962938 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :self-defence only counts while he's attacking. < 1340903174 376609 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :...which he is. < 1340903176 769116 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-18-137.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: if somoen had a gun, and he was about to shoot you. Would you be allowed to kill or not?(if you coul) < 1340903177 734318 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :If he hit you in the face once < 1340903179 900589 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-18-137.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :*someone < 1340903188 382658 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then just stands there < 1340903193 560833 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't just go and hit him too. < 1340903208 930110 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-18-137.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :dogs could kill < 1340903218 410076 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-18-137.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you couldn't < 1340903220 665832 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-18-137.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like that < 1340903227 7021 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman, except like I said it's up to the jury to decide whether it was reasonable to assume they would continue to attack. < 1340903234 588626 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are allowed to defend yourself before an attack, or while he's still attacking. < 1340903237 950092 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not after he attacked. < 1340903247 269006 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that's not defending anymore of course. < 1340903252 477171 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So yes, if they punched you in the face then ran away it would probably be illegal to run them down and break their arm. < 1340903253 909736 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A Castle Doctrine (also known as a Castle Law or a Defense of Habitation Law) is an American legal doctrine that designates a person's abode (or, in some states, any place legally occupied, such as a car or place of work) as a place in which the person has certain protections and immunities and may in certain circumstances use force, up to and including deadly force, to defend against an ... < 1340903260 394966 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :... intruder without becoming liable to prosecution." I mean, they have that thing. < 1340903308 165391 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: What broken country do you live in where self defense is illegal X_X < 1340903323 565359 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, /whois says Switzerland. < 1340903329 342896 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-18-137.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :"mroman: You are allowed to defend yourself before an attack, or while he's still attacking." Seems like it's legal. < 1340903330 149457 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :... SWITZERLAND? < 1340903335 142023 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHERE THEY FORCE YOU ALL TO BE ARMED < 1340903336 634712 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, self-defense is rather tightly controlled in Finland too. < 1340903342 46495 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I did that earlier to see if he did live in a common-law country.) < 1340903345 157349 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe that your interpretation of the law is probably broken. < 1340903350 287564 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-25.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm gonna do an elliott and part until conversation improves < 1340903351 925507 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-25.as13285.net PART #esoteric :"Leaving" < 1340903352 613959 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-18-137.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Belgium, you can get around any law really < 1340903362 222742 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest, how? < 1340903364 583281 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: They're armed to repel foreign intruders, you know. < 1340903372 653730 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: That's besides the point ;) < 1340903378 304129 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Waiting 'til there's no government again? < 1340903391 889805 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-18-137.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: it's full of back-doors < 1340903392 907193 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Well. < 1340903399 142985 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 NICK :Phantom_Hoover < 1340903404 13799 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not very uncommon @you have to go to the army < 1340903414 137268 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :in european countries. < 1340903420 130085 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-18-137.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :not belgium! < 1340903420 566461 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that's not it. < 1340903425 462941 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, but that's, like, self-defence against foreigners. < 1340903427 562218 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean < 1340903437 306029 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have to be a soldat, and you have to be a fire-fighter in switzerland. < 1340903438 53543 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If a Russian immigrated illegally and then robbed you < 1340903449 652908 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would that allow you to shoot them in self-defence? < 1340903465 991014 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :hopefully not. < 1340903477 978338 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends on how he robbed you. < 1340903523 378821 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman, that was purely a joke aimed at fizzie. < 1340903590 856524 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :"olice officers have also recently shot dogs that were chained, tied, or leashed -- obviously posing no real threat to officers who killed them. " < 1340903595 728989 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :^- Ok. That is SICK. < 1340903605 712942 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but understandable. < 1340903610 903182 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1340903611 598014 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Understandable? < 1340903616 784332 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey there needs to be a grossly disproportionate punishment for being suspected of owning a small amount of a plant < 1340903618 253790 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd have to recognize first that he's on a leash. < 1340903626 142307 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but police officers should be trained to do so. < 1340903630 342379 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :which makes it sick. < 1340903643 788174 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :also you have to make assumptions about the length of the leash. < 1340903649 321884 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, calling it 'a plant' as if that's so ultra-reasonable is disingenuous. < 1340903652 683922 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even if he's on a leash he still might reach you. < 1340903663 258494 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: everyone knows what i'm talking about < 1340903673 587266 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There were also some stories like this one guy to whom the police said that "we won't harm your dog if you put him in the bathroom and close the door", then (after he had done so) went and opened the door, shot the dog, for no other apparent reason than to get some water to drink. < 1340903676 346522 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :As you see. It is not that easy for a police officer. < 1340903682 643112 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that also understandable? < 1340903688 382132 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, they could've been in danger of thirst. < 1340903689 25212 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course; I'm saying that you're making out that it's completely ridiculous to regulate posession of a plant. < 1340903700 54193 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really < 1340903704 838530 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Well, no. < 1340903708 231390 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :@understandable < 1340903708 856143 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknown command, try @list < 1340903714 374569 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, regarding shooting someone who just tries to rob you, here's some Florida statutes: "a person is justified in the use of deadly force -- if: He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm -- A person is presumed to have held a reasonable fear of imminent peril of death or great bodily harm -- if: (a) The person against whom the ... < 1340903720 291987 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :... defensive force was used was in the process of unlawfully and forcefully entering, or had unlawfully and forcibly entered, a dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle, -- and (b) The person who uses defensive force knew or had reason to believe that an unlawful and forcible entry or unlawful and forcible act was occurring or had occurred." < 1340903732 556097 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That really sounds quite much like you can shoot people who aren't directly in the process of attacking you personally. < 1340903747 927392 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :FWIW killing burglars is definitely not legal in the UK. < 1340903760 864985 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's very much not legal here too. < 1340903779 676950 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :As for US, I am under the impression that how legal it is varies quite much depending on the state in question. < 1340903802 330472 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it's allowed in switzerland @killing burglars. < 1340903806 826838 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-18-137.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be legal here if you caused an error in the investigation(causing you not to get any punishment) < 1340903827 118855 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-18-137.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you'd need just 1 person on the inside to do that) < 1340903828 59166 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's even technically your fault if a burglar falls down your staircaise. < 1340903839 361765 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :*case < 1340903839 864559 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest, well come on, any legal system can be subverted from the inside. < 1340903864 14424 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1340903864 822418 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's just "it would be legal here if you had a corrupt policeman on your side", which is true basically everywhere. < 1340903867 212754 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :in finnish law, is it less wrong to kill a burglar than a random guy? (assuming that you say you did not consider yourself to be in danger.) < 1340903878 875362 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-18-137.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: true, but here you could just leak a single sentence of the documents and it would be fine < 1340903883 299876 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm all for "not killing the dogs" if you pay the money to train police officers for such situations. < 1340903902 311699 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman, it says /in the article/ that they've been offered free training multiple times. < 1340903912 73075 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :For every police officer? < 1340903916 493848 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's the police's own damn fault to ensure the safety of the public from the police. < 1340903921 730373 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then they are idiots. < 1340903924 114506 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-18-137.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then it seems like they were just having some sadistic fun. < 1340903930 746605 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: I don't think there's a difference. The bit about "hätävarjelu" just says: "Aloitetun tai välittömästi uhkaavan oikeudettoman hyökkäyksen torjumiseksi tarpeellinen puolustusteko on hätävarjeluna sallittu, jollei teko ilmeisesti ylitä sitä, mitä on pidettävä kokonaisuutena arvioiden puolustettavana, kun otetaan huomioon hyökkäyksen laatu ja voimakkuus, puolustautujan ja ... < 1340903936 747621 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :... hyökkääjän henkilö sekä muut olosuhteet." I haven't seen anything that would let you use more force when you're defending your home or some-such. < 1340903953 975762 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, how do Finnish sentencing laws work though. < 1340904010 942640 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Oh, well, there's also 5§ pakkotila: "Muun kuin edellä 4 §:ssä tarkoitetun, oikeudellisesti suojattua etua uhkaavan välittömän ja pakottavan vaaran torjumiseksi tarpeellinen teko on pakkotilatekona sallittu, jos teko on kokonaisuutena arvioiden puolustettava, kun otetaan huomioon pelastettavan edun ja teolla aiheutetun vahingon ja haitan laatu ja suuruus, vaaran alkuperä sekä ... < 1340904016 960993 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :... muut olosuhteet." So I guess you could argue something related to that if you were repelling a burglar, but not if you were just killing some random dude who hadn't done anything. < 1340904031 503484 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except I doubt they'd ever considered deadly force "reasonable". < 1340904041 165434 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1340904222 41814 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also even if you do something unreasonable, you can't get punished if it's not possible to reasonably expect you to have behaved otherwise in the situation, considering element of surprise etc. (I think that bit is there to give some leniency where you can't really make a full analysis of legality before acting.) < 1340904260 707848 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1340904315 945899 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also if e.g. the attacker has a fake gun and you hurt him trying to defend yourself, even though you weren't actually in any danger. < 1340904351 78723 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently supplementary materials clarify it so that you have more wiggle room when defending your person than your property. < 1340904369 576100 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :So here you shouldn't probably shoot after a car thief. < 1340904486 688671 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually that case was mostly interesting because the original car owner killed the thief, then afterwards the car hit someone else, and the someone else's insurance company argued the "acts of uninsured motorists" insurance won't cover it, because the car wasn't operated by an uninsured motorist (the thief), because he was dead at the time, and therefore could not be operating a vehicle. < 1340904495 346204 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't recall how it actually went in the end. < 1340904513 814814 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think anyone was blaming the car owner of anything, though. < 1340904544 740176 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1340904604 361855 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if he had died at the wheel and then it had hit someone>? < 1340904623 838244 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really know. I think it should be an analoguous case. < 1340904638 948211 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The fact that the jury came back with a verdict of $450,000 probably tells us something about what it thought of the insurer's position." < 1340904660 870705 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :are those finn moneys < 1340904677 700750 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, this was a US blog. < 1340904752 281929 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-25.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1340904763 906486 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-25.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1340904772 178501 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay taneb, quick everyone talk about dogs again < 1340904790 992634 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-25.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My dog got attacked by a different dog a while back < 1340904800 654454 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-25.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That dog later killed a third dog < 1340904808 65294 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :did it shoot the third dog < 1340904813 94377 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the other hand, apparently in New Zealand you shouldn't throw a spear into the head of someone who stole your wallet: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10502759 < 1340904817 83663 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :was the third dog coming right for it < 1340905378 678345 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: I found you four cases that illustrate self-defense, you can refer to these next time when you think whether you should kill a dude or not: http://sprunge.us/XIVh < 1340905406 131013 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-18-137.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I would never kill someone < 1340905411 707473 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-18-137.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I wouldn't dare to < 1340905436 106760 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-18-137.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and I don't understand finish) < 1340905448 402469 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-18-137.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but alright that wasn't for me) < 1340905539 396123 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(For non-Finns, in the last case someone guarding a a gas station had shot a burglar to the leg, causing permanent injury, and was fined 10000 FIM (about 1700 EUR, 2100 USD) because a gun was considered a too dangerous means for primary defense purposes for a private individual. < 1340905675 867564 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(But in #3 someone had shot dead a dude that had broken in his house and threatened everyone there with a shotgun; apparently due to "fast escalation of the situation" it wasn't reasonable to expect him to be able to aim away from vital spots, so he wasn't convicted.) < 1340905744 312658 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(So you can in fact kill people here and get away with it, it just requires a very legitimate-looking threat and you probably should mostly be focusing on saving yourself and not especially much on killing the other guy.) < 1340905755 706773 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's probably not that easy to know where you can "safely" shoot someone. < 1340905765 34683 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd probably go for the calves? < 1340905787 632934 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-25.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No such thing as safely shooting someone < 1340905796 640716 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well < 1340905801 505807 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :In this context safely means < 1340905806 365014 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :"No permanent injury, not dead" < 1340905818 919017 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and "not bleeding to death within reasonable time" < 1340905842 497540 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-25.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How much of an area of error are we allowing? < 1340905864 951074 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Regular guy aim"-tolerance? < 1340905874 390965 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :5 cm probably. < 1340905885 58154 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I have absolutely no idea < 1340905908 406115 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never shot a gun. < 1340905923 51218 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-25.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've shot an unloaded air pistol. < 1340905926 172589 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-25.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does that count? < 1340905936 400996 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I assume someone who can is able to hit a circle with 5cm radius? < 1340905952 555110 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-25.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd go for butt < 1340905973 309154 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-25.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I only heard that was the safest in the context of stabbing < 1340905982 745608 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: I would really assume that depends on the distance. < 1340905997 782485 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well < 1340906006 490417 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :In case of a robbery 10m is probably the maximum distance. < 1340906013 177907 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've shot one of those air "rifle" things too. It had a bit of an issue that when you made it go from the loading mode "L" shape into the firing mode "|" shape, it had about 80% chance of automatically firing. In retrospect, it perhaps wasn't the safest device around? < 1340906057 39236 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :10m means he's standing in the living room and you're in the next room but can shoot him through the open door 10m < 1340906073 456782 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : In this context safely means < 1340906073 655355 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : "No permanent injury, not dead" < 1340906075 316872 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and he's just thinking of shooting your dog. < 1340906078 502715 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No such place. < 1340906084 441516 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It was very old.) < 1340906097 571982 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've heard so too. < 1340906104 761626 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can never guarantee you won't sever a nerve, for one thing. < 1340906110 726827 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aparently shooting someone in the leg creates a pressure in the veins < 1340906127 362241 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :which kill you even if its just a grazing shot. < 1340906129 539253 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shooting someone in the leg carries a high risk of opening an artery. < 1340906203 827937 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :In #3, the chosen place -- well, according to the text he didn't have a chance to aim at all -- was the chest. Even given that no place is safe, that was maybe not the optimal place. < 1340906240 666711 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's complicated by the fact that he was threatening people with a shotgun. < 1340906245 510488 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I've seen that in movies! @chest < 1340906255 68862 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Salt' maybe :) < 1340906271 958322 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :No idea < 1340906295 527062 :tswett!~tswett@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I tried OOo Base. It wasn't very good. < 1340906305 19359 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shooting someone in the chest is extremely dangerous but it's also far from a quick or even definite kill. < 1340906311 897873 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett, why would you < 1340906320 516304 :Gregor!codu@codu.org TOPIC #esoteric :#esoteric: Where we decide just how much you can shoot someone. | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ | This is what the bfjoust hill will look like under the new scoring system: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=XEWnVMg8 < 1340906348 722086 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: *pretending to look surprised here* < 1340906350 271897 :tswett!~tswett@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur_: I think Proce has a really weird paradigm. One of these days, I need to rewrite the spec so that it actually makes sense. < 1340906366 691046 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's your underlying database, anyway? My? < 1340906386 852784 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So we're all in agreement that you should at least not shoot people a lot? < 1340906503 198915 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-25.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, it's this sort of thing why I suggested we form a superhero team in Glasgow < 1340906510 274368 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-25.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That, and we can both get there by train < 1340906578 902091 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So we can shoot people? < 1340906590 922888 :tswett!~tswett@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: my underlying database is whatever I feel like installing. < 1340906594 456917 :tswett!~tswett@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't feel like installing anything. < 1340906617 719062 :tswett!~tswett@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :But Sqlite is already installed. < 1340906626 5037 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, okay. I had somehow assumed administration of an existing database. < 1340906648 293948 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there's a Firefox extension for that. < 1340906682 375347 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's kind-of half-self-contained. < 1340906766 812866 :nortti!jhaverin@evo.paivola.fi QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1340906781 948053 :tswett!~tswett@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I have is a personal database, containing tables that are just to-do lists or such things. < 1340906800 887802 :nortti!jhaverin@evo.paivola.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1340906823 357643 :tswett!~tswett@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since I am not a computer program, I don't particularly feel like writing a SQL query every time I want to do something. < 1340906874 125299 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you're implying that the matrix does not exist, eh? < 1340906916 661020 :tswett!~tswett@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let me rephrase that. I am not a computer program whose source code I can feasibly rewrite. < 1340906928 772347 :tswett!~tswett@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, if I can, I don't know how. < 1340907092 460034 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-25.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, no, so we can stop other people shooting yet other people < 1340907112 290423 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had a database like that once, and I made it out of sqlite and a quick-and-dirty UI using some scripting language and a curses-like package. But that's of course a hassle. < 1340907147 213632 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, it wasn't exactly like that, and had some things for which a program was handy. < 1340907377 482061 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-25.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1340907486 942986 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :We don't have much gun crime in the UK... < 1340907575 40164 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :And all of our crime is gun crime in the states. < 1340907576 975542 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :So we balance out. < 1340907775 35294 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :We do have shitloads of knife crime and, increasingly, sword crime, so there's that. < 1340907784 286258 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :we don't have any crime in finland < 1340907881 173309 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no crime in Murdertopia! < 1340907887 813129 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because everything's legal in Murdertopia! < 1340907913 739038 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't count victimless crimes and finns are not people < 1340907925 202502 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about beating up swedes < 1340907930 209665 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that a crime in finland < 1340908308 923435 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The traditional Finnish crime is axe crime. < 1340908389 181573 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/crime/pastime/ < 1340908428 222079 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, sword crime? really? < 1340908482 307418 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Työttömyys, viina, kirves ja perhe / lumihanki, poliisi ja viimeinen erhe", they sing in a well-known song. (Butchering the lyrics, that's something like "unemployment, booze, an axe and the family / a snowbank, the police and the final mistake".) < 1340908620 336044 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The song also has parts that are not just listing related words.) < 1340908705 86284 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :would you cry out of happiness? < 1340908737 374345 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not a work-safe song. < 1340908759 469644 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, why do you ask? < 1340908766 383147 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's a translated song title too. < 1340908768 864800 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1340908769 834958 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1340908776 428059 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it mention an axe later? I only know the first bit. < 1340908778 807612 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't know those lyrics, because i've always stopped listening after would you cry out of happiness if i fucked you real nice. < 1340908802 94771 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Yeah, it apparently goes to rather different themes afterwards, fancy that. < 1340908803 867818 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the first few seconds, iirc the song has no repetition) < 1340908818 531828 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-18-137.access.telenet.be QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1340908833 847977 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-18-137.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1340908837 909838 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i guess i accidentally admitted i have heard the whole song) < 1340908838 308816 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Actually in a rather non-Finnish turn of events, it seems to be about gun crime instead. < 1340908881 170150 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also they repeat the bit about how unfairly luck is shared among people. < 1340908891 670608 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. < 1340908908 929275 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :But not the part about fucking. < 1340908910 679967 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay that does sound chorusy. < 1340908940 805228 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i got the album when i was something like 10 so that was the only part i cared about. < 1340909074 779697 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should I work on SICP a little despite being sleep deprived? < 1340909129 179096 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't quite get this song. < 1340909131 529749 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, a lyrics site has done the ä/ae translation, resulting in the song "Ei Saeaestae Perheen Koiraakaan". (That song, incidentally, also includes an axe. Or at least refers to one.) < 1340909153 434026 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :'saeaestae' makes quite a word. < 1340909174 52739 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1340909197 941930 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah when i said would you cry out of happiness, i tried to ask if the line was from that. < 1340909204 998355 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1340909206 273271 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay. < 1340909208 528241 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it wasn't. < 1340909212 300059 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :because a google search had those in the same entry < 1340909221 936479 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :*my < 1340909245 289803 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's from The Land of Mournful Songs. < 1340909307 23092 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the second stanza, the protagonist is all set to never even get an axe; in the fifth, well... < 1340909311 936820 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The quote was from that.) < 1340909312 537063 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just have a random collection of their songs < 1340909382 959491 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk JOIN :#esoteric < 1340909389 202031 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only know the songs that they play on the radio. Or played, I guess. < 1340909510 294868 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :we used to play some of the songs with a couple of friends (a bit over 10 years ago) < 1340909521 599754 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also I think there was a parody version of that "voi kuinka me sinua kaivataan" song. < 1340909618 502851 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Phantom_Hoover, sword crime? really? < 1340909660 339597 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah; IIRC they were becoming more and more popular amongst organised criminals. < 1340909686 402257 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mainly because nobody bothered to regulate them at first, although that changed fairly quickly. < 1340909742 423969 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I actually saw something about that somewhere. < 1340909760 245994 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the context of setting up some sword regulation laws. < 1340909817 356901 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it was just extending the existing knife laws to swords, admittedly. < 1340910057 966474 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :was it legal to kill with a sword? < 1340910074 492956 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-18-137.access.telenet.be QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1340910103 63953 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so. < 1340910152 768810 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dexterity Software > Personal Development for Smart People < 1340910155 392852 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is that thing with the crossbow and the hill in Wales (or is it York)? < 1340910180 370495 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's very helpful Sgeo now you might want to say that to some people who know what either of those things are. < 1340910221 864022 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, a blog post on Personal Development for Smart People: http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/2009/02/1111/ < 1340910228 322775 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not even sure i know what Smart People means < 1340910249 402862 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I'd link you to Dexterity Software, but Steve took it down to focus on... the blog I just linked < 1340910251 830480 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my guess is dexterity software is a product for smart people made by an eponymous copany < 1340910263 779720 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^company < 1340910294 82328 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah... ieponymous i spell correctly < 1340910297 896749 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :eddiewdjiewdjiewjioewjdiewjiowe < 1340910307 734960 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now i feel a proper prat < 1340910473 684913 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1340910515 402853 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, web archive of Dexterity Software http://web.archive.org/web/20031218062802/http://www.dexterity.com/ < 1340910536 993536 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah Phantom_Hoover here's the info you were requesting. < 1340910552 109820 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1340910554 179801 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1340910558 915830 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank you sgeo now i can enjoy this even more < 1340910571 902546 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :......I was able to actually download one of the game demos o.O < 1340910599 862597 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the name of that firefox add-on that allows you to modify how pages display, overriding parts of them. SomethingMonkey iirc? < 1340910617 843146 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreaseMonkey, after the esolanger < 1340910630 37749 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1340910640 595825 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :haven't seen him in a while < 1340910653 580526 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : Why is there no information included AT which cell a constant stops? <-- i think until recently there were no examples without balanced loops so it was easy to deduce. < 1340910658 674726 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :now is there a GreaseMonkey for chrome I wonder.. < 1340910710 145296 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope, esolangers are incompatible with chrome. see: Gregor < 1340910720 634111 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does Gregor have against chrome? < 1340910755 255970 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :allergy. < 1340910763 512450 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1340910781 261943 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notes strong winds in the sky today < 1340910793 671439 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's some sort of a semi-compatible thing, I believe. < 1340910793 870012 :Deewiant!~deewiant@109.75.188.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://www.greasemonkeyforchrome.com/ < 1340910797 367538 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I switched off my humor engine for today < 1340910800 198135 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, thanks < 1340910865 982748 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :support built in or what? Huh < 1340910909 169793 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: chrome refers to colors, and Gregor is allergic to certain colors < 1340910920 648668 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well all I want to do is actually override some CSS. < 1340910936 370418 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(only some really obscure ones, and it's just a slight eye rash, but still) < 1340910965 102919 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://www.dropbox.com/gallery/87474461/1/Beetle?h=516644 <-- i am reminded of the book Tordyveln flyger i skymningen < 1340910966 159474 :FoREALien!~FoREALien@c-98-225-49-68.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1340910991 782732 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that's the original swedish title, of course i read it in norwegian) < 1340910996 261541 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, that title sounds slightly familiar. No clue what it is about though < 1340911052 895373 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :afair it's a children's mystery with mystical elements. the namesake tordivel is an omen... < 1340911065 715080 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1340911084 875996 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i think there were egyptian mummies involved, or something like that < 1340911140 332090 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I ever read that < 1340911150 680893 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thinks of one more thing but that would be a major spoiler. < 1340911162 316870 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, anyway the thing was not a tordyvel < 1340911183 538177 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, but the tordyvel in the book was a stand-in for an egyptian scarab < 1340911193 117388 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhu < 1340911253 695148 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that your picture looks like the one on wikipedia for that, but anyway the exact species is flexible for this :P < 1340911313 8076 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since when am I anti-Chrome. < 1340911323 191677 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-25.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1340911323 390457 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use Firefox, but I hate every browser. < 1340911326 262278 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-25.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1340911328 129232 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf check the first picture of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scarabaeidae#Gallery :P < 1340911342 154397 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :winds are indeed strong today < 1340911465 120669 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and by that i mean, compare to Vorpal's pictures at https://www.dropbox.com/gallery/87474461/1/Beetle?h=516644) < 1340911488 518263 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it may of course just be similar. < 1340911490 263270 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i once found a scarab beetle in the garden < 1340911527 534369 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was dead, but i won't go on < 1340911550 866154 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :those are not only the same type of beetle, they are actually the _same beetle_ < 1340911560 390368 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: PLAUSIBLE < 1340911577 30443 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd have liked a picture that was from the same angle... < 1340911630 359115 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you can see his face < 1340911636 462287 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can't mistake those eyes < 1340911649 369415 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: kind of like if turtles took photos of humans and 2 different turtles uploded it to different websites and my eyes are so tired i am typing with my eyes shut < 1340911667 303736 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1340911670 6565 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly < 1340911698 590520 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :All the channels I've on have gone crazy today. < 1340911729 485926 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which wouldn't be much of an achievement except my touch typing style is all a,s,space k,o,shift < 1340911752 298120 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.google.no/search?hl=no&safe=off&biw=1071&bih=594&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=chiloloba+acuta&oq=chiloloba+acuta&gs_l=img.3...14015.21281.0.21703.17.7.1.9.9.0.297.1000.0j1j3.4.0...0.0.I15OjvwskpQ has some such pictures, they don't look convincingly _that_ similar. < 1340911828 677908 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Green_Scarab_Beetle_(Chiloloba_acuta)_W_IMG_3433.jpg in particular < 1340911960 738491 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: hey wait your pictures are named "Cetonia Aurata" < 1340912013 41466 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, that's also a scarabaeid < 1340912277 59981 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right you discussed it in channel < 1340912303 56989 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i think the chiloloba is a better fit to your pictures than the cetonia, even if it's still not perfect < 1340912436 947019 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cetonia_aurata#In_popular_culture XD < 1340912615 318133 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-25.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've just updated family-tree < 1340912616 310699 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is going to guess the swedish book was _inspired_ by that Jung story < 1340912897 580083 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :here are a bunch of related candidates http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Cetoniinae50.jpg < 1340912946 371387 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:48 < mroman> I'm tempted to create Beamjoust :) < 1340912968 206305 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should read in which channel I am than just assume in which channel I left the computer :D < 1340912974 8265 :Patashu[Zzz]!Patashu@c27-253-127-153.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1340913075 736057 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk JOIN :#esoteric < 1340913124 572583 :nortti!jhaverin@evo.paivola.fi QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1340913147 546029 :nortti!jhaverin@evo.paivola.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1340913445 443128 :nortti!jhaverin@evo.paivola.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"As far as I've learned from my time on the Internet, First Amendment rights are violated whenever any of the following happen:" < 1340913448 911347 :nortti!jhaverin@evo.paivola.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : "1. A person is told to shut up by a moderator or administrator." < 1340913451 265282 :nortti!jhaverin@evo.paivola.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : "2. A person is told to shut up by an ordinary community member." < 1340913453 789777 :nortti!jhaverin@evo.paivola.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : "3. A person is told their ideas are stupid." < 1340913468 994908 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is the first amendment? < 1340913477 789299 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-25.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :US law < 1340913485 938490 :nortti!jhaverin@evo.paivola.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :US free speech law < 1340913508 344602 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-25.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically says Congress can't outlaw religion or speech < 1340913511 51195 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it says you are allowed to speak < 1340913516 307728 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :second is that you are allowed to walk < 1340913517 96841 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :As far as I'm concerned there is no such thing as free speech < 1340913531 613537 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know any country that allows free spech. < 1340913535 84460 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-25.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but you live in an isolationist, far right country < 1340913558 538204 :nortti!jhaverin@evo.paivola.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :where he lisev? < 1340913561 614711 :nortti!jhaverin@evo.paivola.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :*lives < 1340913568 671453 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-25.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Switzerland, I believe < 1340913573 940254 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sury there is no free speech in the US. < 1340913575 812003 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sure < 1340913595 656767 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-25.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :They have to at least pretend there is < 1340913597 362784 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you can't say whatever the heck you wan't it's not *really* _free_ speech. < 1340913616 494557 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's free speech, but you can not say that, this nor that thing. < 1340913641 242895 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: like if you walk to a shop and say you have a gun and are going to start killing if they don't give you everything < 1340913652 306276 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1340913655 300281 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. < 1340913663 846847 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : wtf check the first picture of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scarabaeidae#Gallery :P <-- it has more hair around the edges? < 1340913672 921073 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are not allowed to deny the holocaust. < 1340913680 159924 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's forbidden to say that. < 1340913683 36446 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :you aren't? < 1340913685 332150 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are racism laws. < 1340913685 557928 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :o_O < 1340913695 979512 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which means that it is forbidden to say certain things. < 1340913697 287354 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-25.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not forbidden to deny the holocaust < 1340913699 921960 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-25.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll demonstrate < 1340913707 495154 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: It is in my country. < 1340913707 873943 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-25.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The holocaust never happened < 1340913714 492435 :nortti!jhaverin@evo.paivola.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :in israel it is < 1340913715 706019 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal: hey wait your pictures are named "Cetonia Aurata" <-- Deewiant figured out what they were, so I renamed the files < 1340913721 282580 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-25.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman, you live in a far-right isolationist country < 1340913726 531366 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the confusion of log reading! yay) < 1340913736 346978 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you still have racism laws in the US? < 1340913743 119557 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-25.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno, I'm in the UK < 1340913753 589112 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal: i think the chiloloba is a better fit to your pictures than the cetonia, even if it's still not perfect <-- hm? Which one is that? < 1340913777 853496 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't publicly say that "$Those-People are $Bad-Thing" < 1340913794 206426 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose there's racism laws in finland as well, but they are about as meaningful as piracy laws unless you're famous. unless it's a direct insult ofc. < 1340913795 237932 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: the one in the gallery. actually i'm not sure any more. < 1340913804 274159 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which completely busts free speech. < 1340913812 930859 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, that one seems to exist in India, not Sweden < 1340913816 140853 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, get a grip < 1340913818 610711 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1340913818 809490 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Free speech means to me, that you can state your opinion, no matter what opinion you have. < 1340913827 94270 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nobody has to agree with your opinion, but you are allowed to say it. < 1340913839 641337 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and thats just not allowed in most (european) countries. < 1340913842 375875 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-25.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Free speech does not mean you must be allowed to act on your opinion < 1340913859 897761 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't, yes. < 1340913860 151531 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, anyway mine had the faint white streaks that the Swedish wikipedia on the type we went for mentioned < 1340913875 173833 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but "speech" somehow implies to me, that you can say your opinion publicly < 1340913896 559634 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-25.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you are allowed to say "I don't like those people" < 1340913908 338231 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-25.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you're not allowed to say "Kill those people whenever you see them" < 1340913916 134623 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-25.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you're a government < 1340913918 650140 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exactly. < 1340913922 743912 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :@Kill those people < 1340913923 378070 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1340913930 561416 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :What? < 1340913938 463389 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot just noted to kill those people. < 1340913939 423541 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-25.as13285.net NICK :those < 1340913941 85496 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's sick! < 1340913941 327742 :those!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-25.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1340913941 846025 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :those: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. < 1340913942 794264 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1340913946 42614 :those!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-25.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages < 1340913946 686470 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman said 24s ago: people < 1340913952 339680 :those!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-25.as13285.net NICK :Taneb < 1340913955 117760 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman, it does fuzzy matching on command < 1340913958 266094 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :commands* < 1340913964 28266 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it went kill -> tell I guess < 1340913970 376965 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :the hamming distance is just 2 after all! < 1340913972 253894 :nortti!jhaverin@evo.paivola.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so is @kill really @tell < 1340913993 957454 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :@Kill nortti maybe? < 1340913994 363304 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1340913998 333889 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: And what does that mean for free speech if I can't say "Kill those people" < 1340914004 830774 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that somebody ever should say something like that < 1340914015 253870 :nortti!jhaverin@evo.paivola.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: why? < 1340914015 452954 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-25.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman, because it's provocative of violence < 1340914015 651159 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. < 1340914023 525735 :nortti!jhaverin@evo.paivola.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages < 1340914023 744432 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner said 29s ago: maybe? < 1340914028 449959 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@kill all humans < 1340914029 156157 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you meant: keal kind tell < 1340914035 339746 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1340914040 910459 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm < 1340914045 570244 :nortti!jhaverin@evo.paivola.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :@kill oerjan bwahahaha < 1340914045 768792 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you meant: keal kind tell < 1340914050 717748 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: It is. < 1340914053 773556 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@Kill all humans < 1340914054 386036 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1340914059 975841 :nortti!jhaverin@evo.paivola.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :@kill oerjan foo < 1340914060 176835 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you meant: keal kind tell < 1340914067 54235 :nortti!jhaverin@evo.paivola.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :@Kill oerjan foo < 1340914067 253940 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1340914077 942233 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the fact that you are not allowed to *say* that sentence somehow tells me that the idea of "free speech" is not that "free". < 1340914078 423539 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAAAAAAA < 1340914078 998347 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. < 1340914081 758981 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages < 1340914082 405516 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti said 15s ago: foo < 1340914101 6512 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :if "free speech" really meant that you can say absolutely anything you like in any possible situation, then free speech could naturally never be allowed. < 1340914104 394411 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's more or less "You can say what you want, except what we don't whant you to say" < 1340914105 422192 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman, what sentence? < 1340914111 479775 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-25.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman, you're allowed to say it, just not where a lot of people who view you as a leader can listen? < 1340914113 105769 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-25.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunnoi < 1340914135 207042 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-25.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My knowledge of the legal procedure in my own country is limited, much less in the US and Switzerland < 1340914143 799219 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Which is why "free speech" does not exist to me ;) < 1340914156 453784 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess what it boils down to is you can say what you like, but people can also react how they like to what you say < 1340914165 226287 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: well okay, but then that's kind of a stupid definition < 1340914167 410369 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :free speech in it's purest form at least. < 1340914180 891731 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means that the concept of free is moot in the case i describe < 1340914186 201730 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't agree with the name of it. < 1340914203 210135 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :In German its "Meinungsfreiheit: Jeder hat das Recht seine Meinung frei zu äussern" < 1340914203 636532 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :because most important things in life happen via speech < 1340914207 283353 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's that famous "shouting fire in a crowded theater" example which i think some us supreme court judge came up with < 1340914212 893549 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means in english: Everyone has the right to state his opinion. < 1340914223 611611 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the fact is: He can not. < 1340914226 950674 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, and what did they conclude on that? < 1340914245 850645 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that means the sentence "Everyone has the right to state his opinion" is bogus. < 1340914250 839460 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it is not true. < 1340914253 768979 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: ahh rights.. i don't know what a right is fundamentally. i tried asking my mum once. she didn't give me a clear answer < 1340914273 241500 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, so read up on it instead? < 1340914273 926220 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :The same applies to the freedom of religion thingy < 1340914278 132986 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever you call that ;) < 1340914286 82175 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does not exist either. < 1340914288 728730 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well this was years ago :P < 1340914299 546123 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1340914299 785890 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has a fancy name like "free speech" but that's it. < 1340914302 544944 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, honestly i don't think anyone could define precisely what a right is < 1340914309 523899 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The most stringent protection of free speech would not protect a man falsely shouting fire in a theater and causing a panic." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shouting_fire_in_a_crowded_theater < 1340914324 351324 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think a right at it's most fundamental level is beyond analysis < 1340914324 668408 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just i don't think it's the stating the opinion that's outlawed, you can tell it to your friends and if a cop finds out he won't care. < 1340914348 218166 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair enough < 1340914353 98084 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1340914354 803944 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :saying you hate niggers is just, i suppose, a weak version of telling someone to kill someone < 1340914365 11833 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahh < 1340914387 592136 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-25.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :FBI: for the record, I do not hate niggers, do do I deny the holocaust happened < 1340914392 474853 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-25.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CIA: ditto < 1340914398 669752 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 JOIN :#esoteric < 1340914407 473798 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah < 1340914412 245656 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman, you can probably still say that you think saying "I like to kill black people" should be allowed though < 1340914413 839240 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahh < 1340914416 902665 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what i believe is.. < 1340914432 459200 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, "do do"? < 1340914444 881948 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-25.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/do do/nor do/ < 1340914449 390355 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : [...] i tried asking my mum once. she didn't give me a clear answer <-- did it end with "but you still have to clean your room"? < 1340914450 711505 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-25.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even know what's wrong with me < 1340914451 790272 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, weird typo < 1340914461 243566 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :FBI and CIA: i hate niggers, the holocaust did not happen, and my hd is full of snuff, child pornography and secret al qaeda documents. < 1340914466 842041 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, :D < 1340914468 103887 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I have nothing against these laws < 1340914477 575778 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they should be defined in other words, so that they actually are true. < 1340914482 242213 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that, ideally if someone claims to hold a racist view, it would be nice if they could actually be exposed to experiences of living and working alongside the race they claim to hate < 1340914487 559248 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :everyone else: j/k < 1340914488 777203 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1340914490 150692 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :else there just a sharade. < 1340914532 641680 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :like < 1340914536 866226 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically i think for the most part segregation itself gives rise to racist views < 1340914553 435265 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, i think there are also racists who are much more deeply racist < 1340914554 728860 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everyone has the right to state his opinion, unless it interferes with the general public opinion of the corresponding topic. < 1340914563 507049 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-25.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, I managed to here sharade as faade < 1340914567 175970 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-25.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can... < 1340914578 748804 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something like that ;) < 1340914586 773948 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-25.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can someone recommend a psychiatrist? < 1340914589 424588 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: so you're not really up to snuff? < 1340914595 877775 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :*charade < 1340914607 130802 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: is there a pun i'm missing? < 1340914611 964623 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20, I believe it is a fear of the unknown, so yes segregation doesn't help. But then why did that segregation happen originally? < 1340914614 704508 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :snuff is not a victimless crime < 1340914622 360982 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :snuff? < 1340914627 999720 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :unlike the rest < 1340914628 415150 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: yes there is < 1340914636 458470 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-25.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Snuff is in the stuff you stick up your nose < 1340914637 753885 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what's the pun? < 1340914639 165712 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm currently playing a trumpet with oboe fingering. < 1340914640 679314 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's surreal. < 1340914644 85322 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, don't you need an ear doctor instead then? < 1340914644 554908 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-25.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is a victimless probably non-crime < 1340914650 799905 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm okay cp i guess can be a bit victimful now that i look at my list :D < 1340914651 168280 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1340914661 529712 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-25.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, not if I heard it on the inside of my head < 1340914663 265835 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"up to snuff" is a phrase, meaning something like competent < 1340914663 464610 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: That is super surreal o_O < 1340914675 457882 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 NICK :itidus21 < 1340914684 466621 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, hearing things on the inside of your head is in general a bad thing < 1340914688 148023 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, where is elliott? < 1340914721 881705 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-25.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, dunno, I don't exactly have any contact with him outside this channel and occasionally private messages and #haskell and #esoteric-minecraft < 1340914729 402975 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: okay did not know that one < 1340914732 662905 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, can you record it? A video preferably < 1340914752 539769 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess the saying only makes sense if you think snuff is the greatest form of entertainment in the world. < 1340914755 671817 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, mroman: I /just/ got this electronic wind instrument yesterday, gimme a break < 1340914755 869999 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, isn't hexham like a small village kind of deal? < 1340914775 695179 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-25.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, almost 12000 people < 1340914779 97846 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I play a Flugelhorn. < 1340914789 626339 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-25.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not /tiny/ < 1340914796 796494 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, electronic wind instrument? That explains it. Also it sounds awesome < 1340914803 721379 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it have a midi port on the side? < 1340914808 407789 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, what does it look like? < 1340914810 321019 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the electronic part of it? < 1340914812 218756 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well especially the case where it might be claimed i am racist.. i would at least like exposure to the group i hate < 1340914832 150851 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-25.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, I have never met elliott, nor do I plan to < 1340914834 22752 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or it would seem they get some great deal of joy out of labelling my hate < 1340914841 466694 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, eh? Are you a racist? < 1340914846 477248 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, good for you < 1340914847 548698 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-25.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :By mutual agreement < 1340914851 238844 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: Are you some sort of elliott-racist! < 1340914856 541899 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, why? < 1340914876 281725 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-25.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :All the discussion occured in this channel < 1340914882 235441 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1340914882 463502 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://www.akaipro.com/ewiusb < 1340914887 769519 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's a standard USB MIDI device. < 1340914897 542479 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION recalls back in the 90s or so reading that snuff in the strict sense wasn't proved to exist, and vaguely wonders if that's still true. < 1340914900 80390 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-25.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The main reason is that we're ridiculously similar in terms of tastes and location that meeting will destroy the universe < 1340914908 689258 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, does it have a speaker built in? < 1340914911 744147 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-25.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which would be a Bad Thing < 1340914950 977806 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: my point is, i am aware of no benefit derived of being racist.. so i would expect the majority of racists would like the chance to remedy their racism < 1340914965 821688 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps that is hugely wishful thinking < 1340914969 319014 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, I don't think the world works that way... < 1340914970 729598 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-25.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I'm descended from the elliott clan on my mother's side! < 1340914982 68627 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-25.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(actually sort of true) < 1340914986 449290 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise, why would the Bible belt in US still exist? < 1340914990 617827 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also if racism is a symptom of some other problem < 1340914999 301084 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The existence of for-profit snuff films is generally considered an urban legend.", so still the same i guess < 1340915028 775830 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it wouldn't go away < 1340915030 361818 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, what is the ground plate for on those screenshots? Electrical ground? < 1340915041 591096 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I never played a wind instrument, I don't know the terminology) < 1340915093 726769 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No speaker, it's just a MIDI device. It has nothing to do with either electrical grounding or wind instruments. Well, maybe it does have to do with electrical grounding, it has something to do with how it does touch-detection of the pitch bend area. < 1340915109 796520 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1340915129 620110 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose the benefits for the racist are the same as those of the bully.. having someone to pick on and blame for things and exploit < 1340915164 777194 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, does it work well (the instrument in general, not the ground plate in specific) < 1340915176 383085 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Extremely, actually. < 1340915183 930492 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you surprised? < 1340915198 606707 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I paid $250 for it, so my expectations weren't low, but I'm not disappointed. < 1340915208 950145 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think my habit of sticking to a topic years after it has been dropped is awkward in such cases < 1340915216 76708 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, what happens if you try to suck air in instead? < 1340915223 721538 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You die. < 1340915233 743417 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, seriously though? < 1340915236 905288 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It has near zero airflow, so that's mostly just very unpleasant. < 1340915239 816444 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't hurt anything. < 1340915240 111247 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1340915251 732677 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, how can it work with near zero airflow?! < 1340915259 694171 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't make sense to me < 1340915298 383442 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It doesn't produce sound, it just needs a pressure sensor. In principle it could have no airflow whatsoever, but it does have a little bit. < 1340915318 698276 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, it must be very different to play then from normal wind instruments < 1340915332 71430 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm told that it's most similar to an oboe, which also has very low airflow. < 1340915343 575580 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yes, real woodwind players apparently complain about its low airflow. < 1340915346 708872 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :since instead of stopping breathing out you need to breath in to stop the tone? < 1340915353 530504 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-25.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1340915358 614943 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :... no, you don't X-D < 1340915362 709685 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1340915364 591422 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :You just need to stop applying pressure. < 1340915389 485613 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that is why it has a tiny bit of airflow then < 1340915395 403397 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So no electric flutes then? < 1340915398 111003 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, just enough to be possible ^^ < 1340915413 798722 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Naw, they all simulate direct-blown instrument, no transverse. < 1340915426 262629 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pfft/ < 1340915431 827085 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there are electric brass too, but those are crazy-expensive and I'm no lip buzzing expert anyway. < 1340915452 889968 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : Phantom_Hoover: Naw, they all simulate direct-blown instrument, no transverse. <-- not all flutes are transverse afaik? < 1340915464 655551 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :The term "flute" usually refers to concert flutes, which are. < 1340915472 664283 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Other kinds of flutes are lame and everybody hates them. < 1340915514 282512 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right English calls "blockflöjt" "recorder" < 1340915524 646356 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Swedish "flute" is part of the name of that instrument < 1340915540 912251 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :In some English dialects, recorders are considered a type of flute. < 1340915548 202807 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1340915548 511576 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :But usually the word "flute" refers to concert flutes, which are transverse. < 1340915550 153210 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@178235038077.elblag.vectranet.pl QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1340915579 434293 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, what about pan flutes, they are transverse still < 1340915585 711322 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not the same as concert flute < 1340915602 343857 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is that not called a flute in English either < 1340915603 964337 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION checks < 1340915625 34638 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the article name is Pan flute, but the intro text reads "pan pipe". < 1340915636 700832 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's confusing < 1340915722 724073 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1340916219 506232 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's called a pan flute, yes X-D < 1340916230 889702 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty much any woodwind that doesn't have a reed is a kind of flute. < 1340916241 881813 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just the only one you mean when you don't specify is a concert flute. < 1340916267 1837 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :If someone said "I play a flute" and then pulled out their recorder or pan flute, you'd call them a dirty liar and punch them in the face. < 1340916354 353827 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know I would. < 1340916378 494087 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would say "Indeed you do", because all flutes are flutes < 1340916384 344588 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-221-74.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1340916397 388557 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, I see < 1340916430 765688 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, I don't think there is such a strong connotation of concert flute in the Swedish word "flöjt", though I < 1340916445 343346 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm* not a professional musician < 1340916455 277413 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so maybe in those circles that connotation exists < 1340916587 477478 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Vorpal I guess that is why it has a tiny bit of airflow then" erm, you do know that air tends to balance its pressure? you don't need any airflow. < 1340916641 568267 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :if there was no airflow, it would be even easier to blow forever (ofc not very hard anyway) < 1340916661 400603 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes obviously, the issue was stopping, not continuing < 1340916712 940557 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://xkcd.com/1073/ < 1340916717 619911 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually have no idea how you could blow a wind instrument forever though. I know there is a way to do it, I just don't know how < 1340916730 240458 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but why the heck would you need to breathe in to stop it o_O < 1340916733 924539 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can we? < 1340916759 130937 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, to reduce the absolute pressure on the pressure sensor so it stops making sound? < 1340916776 599090 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :you think the air pressure increases when you blow and then stays that way until someone explicitly reduces the pressure by sucking? < 1340916780 943831 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can one revoke his citizen ship and live in the next forrest for the rest of his live where every day would be saturday? < 1340916781 974375 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, I assume the sound making is a linear function of the applied pressure compared to ambient pressure? < 1340916804 412645 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, I think if you don't allow it to flow back out then it will stay? < 1340916828 5794 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, of course you could just let it flow back in < 1340916834 35995 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :as opposed to actively sucking < 1340916866 39644 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm. okay so yeah if it was a fucking balloon with a one-way valve which somehow still lets stuff out when it's being sucked on i guess. < 1340916892 879518 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay i think we're imagining some details very differently < 1340916908 25395 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is quite probably the issue yes < 1340916915 641844 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea how the actual sensor work < 1340916919 377819 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are imagining some sort of insane flabberfleming and i'm imagining something sensible. < 1340916929 666584 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, a what? < 1340916934 194255 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is a "flabberfleming"? < 1340916935 795434 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :a flabberfleming < 1340916943 528569 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is? < 1340916956 161588 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's exactly what it sounds like. < 1340916963 86846 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I have no idea what that is < 1340916983 566371 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor does google < 1340917009 459367 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a balloon with a one-way valve that is actually only one-way when one atmosphere of pressure is on the outside, but when less, it lets air out (not depending on pressure inside) < 1340917019 577041 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is also an instrument < 1340917037 871142 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a flabberfleming. < 1340917062 403104 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1340917113 358926 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, anyway I'm basically modelling it as a cavity with a small pipe, which you put in your mouth. I was not implying a value, nor was I implying that you would need to actively suck, just that you would need to let air flow back in your mouth to release the pressure. You can't just stop increasing the pressure, the pressure must be reduced to match ambient pressure outside the instrument < 1340917114 334713 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :no? < 1340917122 672515 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :also when you suck on it, almost no air flows, so i suppose the balloon doesn't empty through the mouthpiece when you suck < 1340917151 608787 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, i see what you mean. < 1340917188 549374 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i preferred my flabberfleming interpretation though < 1340917232 490272 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, while an instrument where air flows through would over time go back to ambient pressure, depending on how much air is allowed to flow through (and the size of the cavity) this may take a long time or happen very quickly < 1340917242 929522 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... i have seen the future of gaming. but i do like this topic of flabberfleming < 1340917260 951608 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :you probably want it to be rather slow to work properly though, since it is not the air flow as such that is creating the sound < 1340917263 783545 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : it's a balloon with a one-way valve that is actually only one-way when one atmosphere of pressure is on the outside, but when less, it lets air out (not depending on pressure inside) < 1340917271 813903 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :the plural is flabberflemma btw. < 1340917303 334368 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't that... just an open aperture? < 1340917360 895932 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :idgi < 1340917368 957359 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, huh I thought he described a one-way valve that can electronically be overriden. It would need three pressure sensors and a micro controller chip I think... < 1340917413 654654 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically you need one to detect ambient pressure, and one on either side of the one-way valve < 1340917424 23515 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1340917436 612628 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i would be a bit surprised if this gadget had a name < 1340917438 778223 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :might not need the one on the inside (except for the music part) < 1340917451 30342 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well apart from "flabberfleming mouthpiece" ofc < 1340917614 700115 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, yeah I doubt that word has any synonyms < 1340917669 712374 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin NICK :graphene < 1340917684 778064 :graphene!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin NICK :copumpkin < 1340918977 405031 :derdon!~derdon@pD9E1D33E.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1340919003 930760 :derdon!~derdon@pD9E1D33E.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1340919260 918844 :derdon!~derdon@pD9E1D33E.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1340919982 931888 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1340919990 325755 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1340921282 462167 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1340921498 684188 :augur_!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: whats proce < 1340921644 882333 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk JOIN :#esoteric < 1340921656 737029 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, there? < 1340921665 806982 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :where /is/ elliott? < 1340921687 585828 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Left because he finds the level of discourse beneath his standards, as usual. < 1340921696 41027 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1340921710 543067 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah he is still connected < 1340921758 263077 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not in any channels from what I can see (so he doesn't share any with me and has +s set, or if +s is not set, is not in any channels that are not +s) < 1340922344 870198 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1340922608 441864 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net QUIT :Quit: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH! < 1340922657 416043 :tswett!~tswett@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur_: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Proce < 1340922932 928564 :augur_!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1340922934 177063 :augur_!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh < 1340922948 894834 :tswett!~tswett@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION starts rewriting ye spec. < 1340922960 174849 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope? Haven't seen that guy for ages, did he switch nick or something < 1340922966 38298 :tswett!~tswett@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think so. < 1340922985 490435 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swats Vorpal -----### < 1340922999 216692 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1340923003 410951 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who's ihope? < 1340923006 15324 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swats tswett too for good measure-----### < 1340923024 625638 :tswett!~tswett@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't he change his nick to "kerlo" or something? < 1340923025 445808 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Ha! < 1340923030 330681 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"measure-----###"! < 1340923035 405421 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's your new swatter. < 1340923040 689790 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1340923047 963655 :tswett!~tswett@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :So does this mean I've been swatted for good? < 1340923058 637523 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, what? < 1340923075 594298 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I don't remember were he went < 1340923077 91561 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously < 1340923086 439799 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think he used to change nick a lot < 1340923094 871778 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't say XD < 1340923095 762501 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that is all I remember < 1340923105 241618 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I have no clue who he is currently < 1340923113 69138 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, who is he currently < 1340923116 419876 :tswett!~tswett@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm changing the page for Proce to say it was invented by Tanner Swett. < 1340923118 485673 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :rofl < 1340923149 289874 :augur_!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i remember ihope < 1340923150 531169 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett, so you are ihope? < 1340923168 520649 :tswett!~tswett@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's just say ihope had a tendency to take credit for my work. < 1340923199 508904 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I have the complete clogs logs I should be able to do a query to the database I stored it in and track who he currently is < 1340923208 494428 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, that is on a computer that is currently booted to windows < 1340923209 976979 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :forget it < 1340923220 129472 :tswett!~tswett@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it really matters. < 1340923231 30429 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :thwarted my microsoft < 1340923260 328198 :tswett!~tswett@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although, come to think of it, I hope he's doing all right... < 1340923265 41621 :tswett!~tswett@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :...erm, no pun intended. < 1340923318 243873 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, thwarted by computer games :P < 1340923336 436503 :tswett!~tswett@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess we could email him. I think his email address is ihope127@gmail.com or something. < 1340923342 410544 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(yes I'm kind of bored of nethack, wesnoth, neverwinter nights 1 and uh... < 1340923345 482458 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that's it) < 1340923392 899473 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastlog tswett.*ihope < 1340923416 145117 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, might have gone through more nicks in between < 1340923430 634371 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1340923433 388765 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastlog tswett.*ihope < 1340923455 659443 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-05-16.txt:10:23:17: tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope < 1340923465 691074 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :warrigal, right < 1340923474 675465 :tswett!~tswett@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a lot of pseudonyms. < 1340923488 791482 :tswett!~tswett@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, "tswett" isn't a pseudonym. It's just a nym. < 1340923505 168808 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't really remember that unaffiliated guy < 1340923509 837845 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1340923524 705505 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sigh* < 1340923526 154955 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, yes his work is apparent everywhere < 1340923538 744591 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, he even messed up my whois! < 1340923544 229797 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1340923548 547733 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :reddit has a post voted to +3 advocating the genocide of the Palestinians. < 1340923560 11748 :tswett!~tswett@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone know what school ihope is going to nowadays? < 1340923563 834249 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, be happy it isn't more than +3 < 1340923573 998390 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :reddit's normally anti-Israel! < 1340923577 167026 :tswett!~tswett@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought I heard a rumor he was going to Stanford or something. < 1340923580 38569 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: he probably dropped out long ago < 1340923587 659515 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, anyway surely that is against the TOS (advocating genocide) < 1340923593 658212 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you could report it < 1340923600 298587 :tswett!~tswett@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :I honestly wouldn't be surprised... < 1340923608 120581 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have this sinking feeling it's because they dressed it up as anti-Islamism which reddit is very fond of. < 1340923614 819234 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no spamming, no vote buying, and no advocating genocide. < 1340923640 576382 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, heh < 1340923772 265695 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've frequently been thinking what we need is for some mad scientist to grow a volcano right at the temple mount. < 1340923776 541015 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :a big one. < 1340923787 975076 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm playing a sawtooth wave with oboe fingerings. < 1340923790 80415 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :MY LIFE IS COMPLETE. < 1340923817 156995 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: you should start auditing for scifi movies < 1340923822 726276 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1340923832 230993 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*auditioning < 1340923833 390529 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there is this youtube channel of a really amazing violinist that I'm subscribed to, but I can't figure out why the most watched video of her is dubstep violin with over 19 000 000 views, compared to the usual average of 5 000 000... < 1340923839 401258 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that just doesn't make sense to me. < 1340923844 634451 :tswett!~tswett@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: what does that mean? < 1340923850 45622 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then I don't understand popular culture very well < 1340923851 881789 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: More or less exactly what it says. < 1340923858 281297 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so can anyone enlighten me on this < 1340923862 243092 :john_metcalf!~digital_w@87.112.175.187 PART :#esoteric < 1340924173 75732 :tswett!~tswett@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Unary operations (including multiplication) take precedence over binary operations." < 1340924183 802257 :tswett!~tswett@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a feeling there's something stupid about that sentence. < 1340924187 447044 :tswett!~tswett@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: what are you playing it on? < 1340924190 283180 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett, ... unary multiplication? < 1340924191 39815 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1340924207 205385 :tswett!~tswett@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :The syntax for multiplication is number "*" . < 1340924224 534588 :tswett!~tswett@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since "*" only takes one function as an argument, not two, it is clearly a unary operation. < 1340924239 53568 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :... which language is this? < 1340924244 701711 :tswett!~tswett@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :Proce. < 1340924258 346375 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett, you wrote that language, you should know what is going on < 1340924266 830982 :tswett!~tswett@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do, yes. < 1340924294 531074 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett, so * returns a function that multiplies by something? < 1340924326 204753 :tswett!~tswett@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :"function" is really a silly word for what that syntax element represents. It should be "signal". < 1340924333 178156 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :riiight < 1340924346 570459 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett, so how is number "*" evaluated? < 1340924365 172350 :tswett!~tswett@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it multiplies the signal by a constant. < 1340925067 906889 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1340925768 582669 :tswett!~tswett@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :Woo. The spec for Proce is now something reasonable. < 1340925774 520227 :tswett!~tswett@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should implement it one of these days. < 1340925834 242030 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh I was looking at the sensors of my phone. Amongst the expected accelerometer, magnetic, gyro, proximity and so on there is a rather odd pressure sensor. Air pressure that is according to the documentation < 1340925859 751242 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :why < 1340925945 167377 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1340925960 341150 :pikhq_!~pikhq@70-56-228-197.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think those are more commonly called "microphones". < 1340925982 563430 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1340926009 817131 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, this isn't though from what I can tell. It is an LPS331AP which is sold as a pressure sensor, not microphone. From the specs it doesn't look useful as a mic < 1340926031 350154 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, iirc mics give you the relative changes in pressure? This one gives you absolute values < 1340926065 844728 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless I completely misremember how mics work < 1340926071 250572 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a possibility < 1340926146 501987 :pikhq_!~pikhq@70-56-228-197.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: That's a fairly good point. < 1340926165 231718 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, you can google the product in question. It makes no sense as a mic < 1340926174 478322 :pikhq_!~pikhq@70-56-228-197.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I have no idea then. < 1340926180 306883 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1340926202 53835 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, there are no temperature sensors or such. So they obviously didn't go for a mobile weather station approach < 1340926205 240312 :Nisstyre!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1340926208 153433 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly it is to detect if the phone is falling out of a plane, so that it can shut down safely. < 1340926217 956010 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(man imagine that, if apple added that and gps, the weather data they could sell) < 1340926225 837498 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it could improve the weather forcasts quite a bit < 1340926235 781252 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(with lots and lots of measurements from all over the place) < 1340926297 391807 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would actually be kind of cool. In combination with GPS, a pressure sensor and a temperature sensor provides some useful data for weather forcast, sure there is no wind sensor or rain sensor or such, but still extra data! < 1340926402 998112 :Nisstyre!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre JOIN :#esoteric < 1340926625 682852 :Slereah_!~jackal@ANantes-259-1-195-133.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1340926793 659954 :Slereah!~jackal@ANantes-259-1-197-40.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1340927121 420670 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Calibrating morphogenetic field < 1340927195 109648 :tswett!~tswett@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: maybe they *are* trying to make it somewhat of a mobile weather station. < 1340927209 646842 :tswett!~tswett@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would expect it to be hard to put a useful thermometer on a mobile phone. < 1340927215 948108 :tswett!~tswett@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since the phone itself generates heat. < 1340927308 53412 :nortti-!nortti@ie.freebnc.net QUIT :Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in < 1340927520 181775 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Some handheld GPSen have barometers for altitude guessing. (Sure, you can get a 3D reading from the GPS, but that can be pretty inaccurate too, and needs more visible satellites than just location.) < 1340927581 701113 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Says John Celenza, the lead meteorological developer at Weather Underground, "the barometer is probably used on the phone to aid in correcting altitude measurements by the GPS." In other words, the barometer is more likely than not intended to be a source of supplemental data for the GPS sensor, adding altitude measurements for increased accuracy. The atmospheric pressure is directly related ... < 1340927587 637389 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :... to elevation, so a barometer can very easily be used as an altimeter, measuring your altitude." < 1340927591 386294 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ah < 1340927621 103178 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it is also related to weather though < 1340927627 71547 :nortti-!nortti@ie.freebnc.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1340927631 330733 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, where is that quote from? < 1340927668 530399 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Random google page, http://m.popsci.com/gadgets/article/2011-10/so-um-why-does-new-google-phone-have-barometer-it < 1340927770 568330 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1340927776 884162 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC, the N900 has a readable temperature sensor in the battery, but I doubt it generally has much to do with ambient temperature. < 1340927856 614044 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ cat /sys/devices/platform/omap34xx_temp/temp1_input < 1340927856 850121 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :-40 < 1340927860 921457 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dunno if it's weird units or just not working. < 1340927878 851622 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, speaking of batteries. Any idea why the NFC antenna is generally in the battery? < 1340927883 649936 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It's not -40 degrees Celsius inside, here.) < 1340927894 756406 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it just to prevent people from buying non-OEM batteries? < 1340927895 55183 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Nor outside, for that matter.) < 1340927930 66538 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :No clue, but could be.