←2012-08-11 2012-08-12 2012-08-13→ ↑2012 ↑all
00:01:21 <quintopia> oic
00:02:04 <Phantom_Hoover> hey guys, what's the maximum damage a spider can do to a computer
00:03:38 <ion> A big enough spider could eat a small enough computer.
00:04:47 <david_werecat> The worst I've seen a spider do is give a BSOD.
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00:12:23 <zzo38> ion: Yes that is possible but probably unlikely
00:12:48 <zzo38> david_werecat: Probably it would if it would get inside the computer. Otherwise probably nothing.
00:16:36 <quintopia> remember the story of where the term "bug" came from
00:16:44 <quintopia> insects in general can do some damage
00:17:16 <zzo38> Yes it can, especially to older computers.
00:17:31 <zzo38> Spiders are not insects but they can probably do the same damage to computers.
00:17:36 <quintopia> if you leave your computer off, and a spider webs up your intake fan...
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00:17:48 <quintopia> spiders are arthropods
00:17:55 <quintopia> and arthropods are bugs
00:18:05 <zzo38> But either way it probably won't if it does not get inside the computer.
00:18:21 <quintopia> yeah it'd be tough for a spider to damage a laptop
00:21:58 <FreeFull> quintopia: only insects are bugs
00:22:06 <quintopia> FreeFull: lies
00:22:10 <FreeFull> Crustaceans are anthropods, would you call them bugs?
00:22:13 <quintopia> yes
00:22:20 <quintopia> shrimp are the ants of the sea
00:22:50 <quintopia> i can picture the whales and dolphins swatting at them like gnats
00:22:57 <FreeFull> Shrimp don't have any of the social structure of ants
00:23:01 <zzo38> My mother said the same thing
00:23:07 <quintopia> okay, the gnats of the sea
00:23:18 <FreeFull> And don't swarm around whales or dolphins
00:23:36 <quintopia> i'm trying to invoke the smallness and ubiquity of them
00:26:15 <oerjan> you may be thinking of krill
00:26:57 <zzo38> O, yes, it should be krill.
00:27:18 <oerjan> then it's settled.
00:28:31 <oerjan> anyway i have had very little trouble with krill in my laptop.
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00:35:45 <oerjan> not in scotland, only in australia.
00:36:35 <oerjan> @wn suppurate
00:36:36 <lambdabot> *** "suppurate" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)"
00:36:36 <lambdabot> suppurate
00:36:37 <lambdabot> v 1: cause to ripen and discharge pus; "The oil suppurates the
00:36:37 <lambdabot> pustules" [syn: {suppurate}, {mature}]
00:36:37 <lambdabot> 2: ripen and generate pus; "her wounds are festering" [syn:
00:36:38 <lambdabot> {fester}, {maturate}, {suppurate}]
00:36:51 * oerjan regrets that already.
00:37:26 <Phantom_Hoover> Yep, it's like pus.
00:37:32 <Phantom_Hoover> Blue pus.
00:37:42 <oerjan> Phantom_Hoover: your computer contains one very ill hooloovoo. hth.
00:38:37 <Phantom_Hoover> what colour is hooloovoo medicine
00:39:56 <oerjan> tricky question
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00:42:01 <oerjan> they got fizzie too
00:42:01 <Phantom_Hoover> Dammit fizzie, right when we need you.
00:42:28 <oerjan> nah we need Gregor, he's the color expert
00:42:39 <oerjan> _especially_ alien colors
00:43:10 <Gregor> It's moderate cerise.
00:44:31 <oerjan> excellent http://www.colourlovers.com/color/A01266/Moderate_Cerise
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00:45:39 <Phantom_Hoover> oerjan, nope, it's still leaking blue everywhere.
00:46:04 <Phantom_Hoover> fizzie, I need you to use your magic colour program to calculate moderate cerise.
00:46:16 <oerjan> Phantom_Hoover: i think hooloovoo medicine needs to be administered using proper prismatic equipment
00:49:02 <Phantom_Hoover> fizzie, also can you use your wealth of H2G2 knowledge to give me some tips on hooloovoo medicine.
00:52:52 <oerjan> i suspect fizzie might be asleep, filthy european
00:53:30 <oerjan> or wait it's sunday. i suspect fizzie might be out partying, filthy european
00:54:12 <oerjan> hm given he spoke at 0:02, maybe a little unlikely
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02:01:57 <tswett> https://github.com/tswett/Smokefly - you know, that commit message is highly misleading.
02:02:04 <tswett> "Change copyright license from BSD to GNU GPL"
02:02:22 <coppro> it is
02:02:27 <tswett> One of the files with that message is the GNU GPL. The GNU GPL was never available under the BSD license, and it is not available under the GNU GPL.
02:02:37 <coppro> haha
02:02:42 <coppro> also, just to spite you
02:02:50 <coppro> ima go grab a copy from just before the license switch
02:02:54 <coppro> and start coding on it and distributing it
02:02:55 <tswett> Two of the files with that message are now in the public domain, rather than available under the GNU GPL.
02:03:08 <coppro> probably untrue
02:03:19 <coppro> most countries' laws don't have a concept of "public domain" per se
02:03:31 <tswett> And two of the files with that message are available under the GNU GPL, but still also available under the BSD license, because licenses don't just go away.
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02:20:59 <Sgeo> Why the license switch?
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02:42:38 <zzo38> I also want to know why
02:43:00 <zzo38> And why are two of those files in the public domain?
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03:47:23 <tswett> Sgeo: because if people modify it, I want them to release the modified version under the same license.
03:51:22 <Sgeo> Am I evil for selling software?
03:52:12 <tswett> zzo38: because they're not software, and producing them did not require a significant amount of effort.
03:52:14 <Sgeo> (Note that this is not a response to your license thing)
03:52:15 <tswett> Sgeo: not in my opinion.
03:52:59 <Sgeo> Although I wonder, if I gave it away back then, would the scourge of poseballs be non-existent?
03:53:47 <oerjan> what's a poseball
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03:54:26 <Sgeo> http://secondlife.wikia.com/wiki/Poseball "A poseball is a common kind of scripted object in Second Life, appearring as a round colored sphere. There purpose is to play an animation on the avatar that sits on them."
03:55:03 <oerjan> ok
03:55:10 <oerjan> ...thanks?
03:55:48 <Sgeo> You did ask what a poseball is, and that is the answer.
03:55:51 <Sgeo> They annoy me.
03:56:18 <Sgeo> I called my product the "antiposeball"
03:56:40 <Sgeo> https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/Antiposeball-5-SAVE-PRIMS-ON-FURNITURE/219014
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05:50:51 <shachaf> 22:50 <preflex> elliott was last seen on #haskell 60 days, 5 hours, 24 minutes and 34 seconds ago, saying: teneen: That doesn't really clarify to me.
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07:18:52 <zzo38> I would think one CPU instruction for bitwise calculation should be one like INTERCAL's select operator except that the nonselected bits are just moved instead of deleted. It would be useful for some things and if you have AND/OR/XOR as well, then you could implement some other things with this too.
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07:20:56 <zzo38> Such as if it is a C code binary ~ operator then implement INTERCAL select by ((x~y)&(y~y))
07:21:06 <zzo38> Another things might be wanted is the Muxcomp stuff.
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07:25:46 <zzo38> I have written most of a program called Famitile, except: full documentation, load/save in GUI, nametable editor. (Load/save already works for command-line, and you can also use any command-line operation in lastline mode in the GUI, though)
07:29:35 <zzo38> I intend to support both standard nametables and MMC5 nametables.
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08:48:19 <kmc> i propose a railway!
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08:51:51 <kmc> high speed line from Helsinki to Tallinn (through a tunnel) and on to Tartu, Riga, Kaunas (with a branch to Vilnius), Białystok, and Warszawa
08:52:59 <shachaf> They sought it with thimbles, they sought it with care; / They pursued it with forks and hope; / They threatened its life with a railway-share; / They charmed it with smiles and soap.
08:55:42 <shachaf> Ah, kmc. Talking about trains even in #mosh.
08:55:48 <kmc> yep
08:55:52 <kmc> hey i wasn't the one who brought it up
08:57:36 <kmc> ok it looks like i am not the only one to propose this railway
08:57:37 <kmc> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rail_Baltica
09:00:10 <shachaf> kmc: Don't you hate it when you ask a Haskell question and the answer turns out to be the Yoneda lemma?
09:00:28 <olsner> what's the yoneda lemma again?
09:00:40 <shachaf> 16:55 <edwardk> basically the yoneda lemma says in big fancy words that forall r. (a -> r) -> f r is isomorphic to f a
09:00:43 <shachaf> 16:57 <dolio> It basically says something way more general than that. :)
09:00:45 <shachaf> 16:58 <edwardk> yes, the actual lemma is much more powerful
09:00:48 <shachaf> 16:58 <edwardk> but when translated and embedded in haskell for a 'Functor' with a capital f, thats the takeaway
09:01:17 <shachaf> I feel like I'm missing a whole world of category theory.
09:01:26 <shachaf> More useless than even the most useless Haskell code could ever be.
09:03:39 <shachaf> Norway is called Norvēģija in Latvian?
09:03:45 <shachaf> That's a good name.
09:04:00 <shachaf> kmc: Are you still in the Latvia?
09:06:37 <kmc> shachaf: yes
09:07:16 <kmc> going to go AK-47 shooting in a bit
09:07:18 <kmc> if all goes well
09:07:31 <kmc> tomorrow i will take a bus to Tallinn and the next day a ferry to Helsinki
09:07:39 <kmc> you can see why I would be interested in high speed rail in the area!
09:07:58 * kmc wonders if he should join #trains or something
09:08:16 <shachaf> You won't be an op.
09:09:17 <kmc> so?
09:09:58 <shachaf> So someone has presumably been there before.
09:10:18 <shachaf> Hmm, now ChanServ is in there. Weird.
09:12:08 <kmc> oh, i just assumed it would be a real channel
09:12:17 <kmc> now i am disappointed
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09:30:52 <itidus21> latvia.. ah yes. they won the bmx race!
09:44:36 <itidus21> leaving australia with silver
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14:23:16 <elliott> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/11922134/haskell-how-to-increment-i-i1
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14:40:23 <ion> Leonard Nimoy Laserdisc Demo http://youtu.be/0f3524BQ0Ms
14:47:19 <Phantom_Hoover> The one answer to that question is brilliantly evil.
14:48:58 <ion> yeah
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14:51:50 <Sgeo> The answer to the question is by the person asking the question.
14:53:50 <Phantom_Hoover> Oh wow you're right, that just makes it even better.
15:00:11 <kmc> "In the summer of 2012, members of Ansar Dine broke down the doors of the Sidi Yahya Mosque, which according to legend were not to be opened until the Last Days. They claimed that reverence for the site was idolatrous, but offered roughly $100 US dollars to repair the mosque."
15:04:42 <kmc> Phantom_Hoover: would this be more evil? http://hpaste.org/52268
15:05:43 <Phantom_Hoover> Uh, maybe from a technical standpoint, but I think the obfuscation makes it less misleading.
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15:14:16 <kmc> maybe i should contribute to haskell stack overflow more
15:14:28 <kmc> SO improves on IRC with respect to the things i complain about #haskell
15:29:15 <ion> haha
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15:55:14 <FreeFull> kmc: Did the legend specified what would happen if the doors were to open?
15:56:08 <kmc> no idea
15:58:53 <FreeFull> " it takes a lot of time and practice to think functional instead of imperative."
15:59:07 <FreeFull> Weird, as soon as I saw functional programming, I didn't have much trouble comprehending it
16:01:35 <FreeFull> But then, I had really good resources about it at hand
16:04:35 <ion> https://twitter.com/SarcasticRover/status/234677032456450048
16:07:12 <kmc> FreeFull: how much imperative programming had you done before that?
16:07:18 <kmc> the two aren't really in opposition either
16:07:30 <kmc> combining functional and imperative techniques is very powerful
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16:07:39 <kmc> not just "this part is functional, that part is imperative" but actually using them together
16:07:42 <AnotherTest> hello hello
16:07:50 <kmc> hello test person
16:08:22 <AnotherTest> hello algorithm
16:08:47 <AnotherTest> unfortunately I should lookup what the KMC algorithm did again :(
16:09:38 <kmc> knuth - morris - carlsberg
16:10:20 <AnotherTest> something with substrings I recall
16:10:44 <kmc> FreeFull: popular languages force you to use mutable variables even when it's not conceptually necessary
16:10:48 <kmc> or anyway they make it cumbersome to do otherwise
16:11:06 <kmc> so people get used to thinking in terms of mutable variables, when there is often a simpler explanation in terms of immutable values
16:11:40 <kmc> good programmers and good languages transcend "paradigm" and let you use whichever style(s) are appropriate
16:14:23 <kmc> butts
16:14:40 <AnotherTest> kmc: that seems like the reason why I dislike to use Java
16:15:12 <kmc> yes
16:15:16 <kmc> Java is the #1 culprit here
16:15:30 <kmc> the style Java forces on you is appropriate for some tasks
16:15:34 <kmc> but Java forces it for every task
16:16:03 <kmc> Java sort of exists to tie the hands of good programmers while preventing bad programmers from doing too much damage
16:16:19 <kmc> in order to make creating boring business software a more repeatable process
16:16:59 <AnotherTest> what I dislike in Java code a lot for example is an "Utility class"
16:17:55 <FreeFull> kmc: My first language was C
16:18:04 <FreeFull> And I still use C widely
16:18:31 <kmc> AnotherTest: yeah
16:18:39 <kmc> it's funny because people hold up Java as the pinnacle of OOP
16:18:49 <AnotherTest> indeed
16:18:50 <FreeFull> Lol
16:18:57 <FreeFull> Java as pinnacle of OOP
16:19:02 <kmc> but OOP philosophy would say you should creat objects which model your problem domain
16:19:05 <FreeFull> Smalltalk is the pinnacle
16:19:12 <AnotherTest> Hm.
16:19:21 <FreeFull> Racket is okish
16:19:23 <kmc> whereas in Java you need all these nonsense classes which represent things that would be basic control flow elements in another language
16:20:18 <kmc> shrug
16:20:21 <kmc> this is a canned rant of mine
16:20:24 <kmc> not saying anything new
16:20:31 <kmc> today i went shooting guns for the first time
16:20:41 <kmc> fired a Glock 17, an AK-103, and a pump action shotgun
16:20:46 <kmc> sadly the AK was semiauto only
16:20:55 <kmc> i think it is probably very dangerous to let untrained shooters fire full auto
16:27:29 <Taneb> This day is called the feast of Crispia
16:27:30 <Taneb> n
16:27:42 <Taneb> He that outlives this day and comes safe home
16:27:56 <Taneb> Will stand tiptoe when this day is named
16:28:11 <Taneb> And rouse him at the name of Crispian
16:28:24 <Taneb> He that shall see this day and live to old age
16:28:37 <Taneb> Will yearly on the vigil feast his neighbours
16:28:56 <Taneb> And say "Tomorrow is St Crispian"
16:29:18 <Taneb> Then he will strip his sleeve and show his scars
16:29:39 <Taneb> And say "These wounds I got on St Crispian"
16:36:06 <AnotherTest> taneb
16:36:26 <AnotherTest> Willt thou draw near the nature of the gods?
16:36:47 <AnotherTest> Draw near them then
16:36:52 <AnotherTest> in being merciful
16:37:46 <AnotherTest> sorry that I could not reply to your earlier Richard II
16:37:54 <AnotherTest> my connection was bad
16:38:15 <kmc> THATS NOT IN THE PLAY
16:38:36 <Taneb> I'm more of an Oscar Wilde fan, anyway
16:39:59 <Taneb> Anyway, I'm off now
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16:53:47 <FreeFull> kmc: It's very dangerous to let untrained people shoot any gun
16:54:25 <FreeFull> Other than as part of training, with someone watching over them
16:55:59 <kmc> sure
16:56:03 <kmc> i mean, this was kind of training
16:56:08 <kmc> there was a person there telling us what to do
16:56:39 <Phantom_Hoover> <kmc> i think it is probably very dangerous to let untrained shooters fire full auto
16:56:59 <kmc> it still seemed pretty lax compared to what i imagine a first gun course in the USA is like
16:57:02 <kmc> but maybe i imagine wrong
16:57:12 <Phantom_Hoover> I thought full-auto was, like, not useful.
16:57:15 <Phantom_Hoover> Or something.
16:57:27 <kmc> yeah
16:57:32 <kmc> after a few rounds your aim is way off
16:57:42 <Phantom_Hoover> Yes, that one.
16:57:43 <kmc> it's still useful for suppression fire though
16:57:45 <kmc> i imagine
16:57:50 <kmc> (don't actually know anything)
16:57:57 <kmc> i think most militaries encourage the use of 3-round bursts
16:59:13 <kmc> also full auto is good for indiscriminately murdering protesters
17:02:17 <kmc> dinner bbl
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17:39:59 <olsner> "There, I just saved you 1 day of WHAAAAAAAAA!" good summary
17:41:13 <ion> Oh, great, now someone’s advocating the shadowing of variables.
17:42:20 <ion> And someone else NIH’d lenses in shkler answer.
17:42:33 <olsner> maybe he means he saved it on stack overflow so that if we ever need "1 day of WHAAAAAAAAA!" we know where to find it
18:09:03 <shachaf> Shadowing is basically mutation.
18:09:16 <shachaf> Why should I have to write my program in SSA form? That's what my compiler is for!
18:12:03 * shachaf tries to wake up.
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19:29:48 <zzo38> I cannot beat BUZZSAW MCGRAW
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19:42:44 <kmc> hichaf
19:43:11 <Taneb> zzo38, is the problem you need to learn the power of friendship?
19:43:51 <zzo38> I doubt that will make any difference here
19:47:52 <shachaf> kmc: hi
19:48:25 * shachaf is about to go off to Berkeley. Will be back $SOMETIME.
19:48:33 <kmc> ooh what's in berkeley
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19:49:03 <shachaf> $PLAY, $FRIEND, etc.
19:50:45 <kmc> have fun playing with your friend
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20:01:46 <kmc> hi lexande_
20:02:09 <lexande_> hi kmc
20:03:21 <zzo38> I have discussed and changed my digital video signal design to use single signals instead of pairs, so that it has four red, four green, four blue, one clock, one synchronize, one power, and the rest ground, using a twenty-pin cable. The aspect ratio is always a power of 4:3.
20:04:58 <zzo38> So this means two clocks per pixel. A screen of half a pixel means to turn off the picture.
20:07:28 <Taneb> zzo38, power of love?
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20:13:41 <zzo38> Tabeb: ?
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20:18:27 <ion> zzo38: The world has pretty much moved to packet-based serial buses even with video.
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20:27:02 <Taneb> zzo38, maybe to defeat Buzzsaw McGraw you first need to defeat yourself
20:33:33 <zzo38> Taneb: I do not get an option to fight myself, it just lists the valid opponents (which changes sometimes) and then you have to pick one. So, there is no option to fight yourself.
20:33:52 <Taneb> zzo38, I'm pretending this is a movie for fun
20:34:02 <Taneb> And I'm your mentor figure or something
20:34:10 <zzo38> OK
20:35:14 <zzo38> ion: What clock speed is needed for that? I think my format is simple and is better.
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20:39:59 <ion> zzo38: DisplayPort supports other color spaces than just the limited sRGB, other aspect ratios than just 4:3, stereoscopic images etc. and you can carry protocols such as USB, Ethernet and PCIe over it as well. Wikipedia says the widest and fastest DisplayPort bus achieves 17.28 Gbit/s
20:41:21 <ion> Also, better color resolutions than whatever your limit is.
20:41:43 <zzo38> I think that is too complicated. My system does support aspect ratios other than 4:3 as long as they are a power of 4:3 (so 1:1 and 16:9 are also accepted), but data is only one way, which has some advantages.
20:42:35 <zzo38> My system is 2 clocks per pixel, so it is 24-bit color.
20:43:13 <ion> The most common aspect ratios for movies nowadays are 1.85:1 and 2.39:1.
20:45:24 <zzo38> Why? Well, they can still be used just make part of the screen black (can also be used for status information).
20:47:35 <zzo38> TV screens are going to be 4:3 or 16:9 anyways, and you can use 64:27 if necessary.
20:48:35 <zzo38> But this digital RGB system is also mostly for computers rather than TV, anyways, even though it can be implemented on TV screens too.
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21:29:27 <kmc> zzo38: recognizing a distinction between TVs and computer monitors seems extremely quaint
21:30:03 <Taneb> That reminds me, I need a new computer monitor
21:30:37 <Taneb> Mine is a) 12 years old, and b) broken
21:32:55 <FreeFull> TVs have hardware to allow you to watch images and listen to sounds sent over radio waves
21:33:47 <FreeFull> CRT TVs don't really have the concept of a pixel, LCD and plasma TVs tend to have bigger pixels than computer monitors
21:34:15 <pikhq> FreeFull: A modern TV has hardware to allow you to watch an MPEG-2 bitstream sent over radio waves.
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21:34:48 <FreeFull> pikhq: Which still counts as images and sounds sent over radio waves
21:34:53 <FreeFull> The encoding doesn't matter
21:34:54 <pikhq> As well as hardware to watch a framebuffer sent via HDMI.
21:35:08 <pikhq> Whereas a computer monitor just has hardware to watch a framebuffer sent via HDMI.
21:35:50 <kmc> what about wireless HDMI
21:35:56 <kmc> what about streaming MPEG streams over wifi
21:36:37 <Taneb> Dear god I suck at pop culture
21:36:45 <kmc> also i've seen things which are marketed primarily as computer monitors (small, high dpi) but have a tuner built in
21:38:20 <FreeFull> pikhq: Not necessarily HDMI
21:38:24 <FreeFull> Could be DVI or VGA
21:38:45 <pikhq> FreeFull: Or CGA?
21:38:49 <FreeFull> You could connect old TVs to computers using S-VIDEO
21:39:02 <FreeFull> pikhq: VGA still gets used =P
21:39:19 <FreeFull> My desktop's monitor has a VGA port and DVI port
21:39:38 <pikhq> Yeah, but it's increasingly outdated...
21:40:25 <FreeFull> HDMI and DVI use the same kind of signal so you can buy simple plugs that convert between the two
21:40:37 <kmc> that's not entirely true
21:40:47 <kmc> it's more like, HDMI devices are able to downgrade to the DVI protocol
21:40:49 <kmc> i thought
21:40:53 <coppro> VGA is still common
21:41:00 <coppro> at least, in my experience
21:41:09 <FreeFull> Well, I do think it doesn't work for encrypted stuff
21:41:14 <FreeFull> But yeah
21:41:15 <zzo38> I know you need not distinguish between TV/computer, but you can if you want to. But some devices can act as both.
21:41:25 <FreeFull> This laptop has HDMI and VGA ports
21:41:37 <FreeFull> I guess DVI is too big of a port for laptop nowadays
21:41:51 <FreeFull> Despite my laptop from 2005 having enough space for a printer port
21:41:57 <kmc> thinkpads ship with displayport now
21:41:59 <coppro> it's not that it's too big, it's just that it's uncommon
21:42:11 <kmc> macs have their own micro-displayport or whatever
21:42:15 <coppro> at least, in the average of all laptops that see use
21:42:22 <kmc> VGA is still the common denominator for presentation projectors
21:42:26 <FreeFull> coppro: I never saw a monitor with HDMI rather than DVI
21:42:32 <coppro> DisplayPort is nice
21:42:33 <FreeFull> But I guess I'm outdated
21:42:38 <coppro> FreeFull: I was referring to VGA
21:42:46 <kmc> FreeFull: that's because if it had HDMI, you would call it a television
21:42:46 <kmc> ;P
21:42:56 <Taneb> Wow, on the inside of my mind I've had George Michael mixed up with Guy Fieri all along
21:42:57 <coppro> HDMI costs extra $$ because of HDCP
21:43:00 <zzo38> Modern TV sets take too long for turning on
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21:43:22 <pikhq> kmc: HDMI 1.0 is nothing more than DVI-D with a smaller connector and support in the protocol for audio packets.
21:43:22 <kmc> for a while i ran my monitors through a long DVI-HDMI cable with a HDMI-DVI adapter on one end
21:43:30 <kmc> thus making a DVI-DVI cable
21:44:02 <Taneb> This explains a lot
21:44:04 <kmc> true story
21:44:08 <Taneb> Well, it doesn't.
21:44:09 <kmc> then i found five dollars
21:44:10 <zzo38> I don't like those kinds of display signal (DVI, HDMI, DisplayPort, ATSC) they are complicated and encrypted and have patent issues and so on.
21:44:20 <coppro> DVI isn't
21:44:21 <Taneb> I don't really care who either of those people are
21:44:23 <coppro> at least, not usually
21:44:24 <coppro> it can be
21:44:32 <coppro> same with DisplayPort aiui
21:44:35 <kmc> Taneb: what about George Michael Bluth
21:44:39 <pikhq> zzo38: Technically, HDCP is optional on DVI, HDMI, and DisplayPort.
21:44:47 <coppro> in practice, HDCP is not optional on HDMI
21:44:47 <Taneb> kmc, I care about him even less
21:44:52 <pikhq> zzo38: And ATSC is perfectly in the clear.
21:45:30 <zzo38> Some feature I dislike about ATSC is not only the video/audio codecs, I also dislike virtual channel numbers.
21:45:47 <pikhq> It's not even a ludicrously complicated display signal: it's an MPEG transport stream with quadrature amplitude modulation.
21:47:40 <zzo38> Then why is it so slow? Or is ATSC not what makes it slow?
21:47:44 <ion> “<FreeFull> You could connect old TVs to computers using S-VIDEO” I have a computer connected to my main monitor using S-Video.
21:48:13 <pikhq> zzo38: Yeah, that's a fairly *weird* UI mapping of the fact that a given radio allocation broadcasts its own radio stream, and we call those "channels", and that a given MPEG transport stream can have multiple programs in it, and we would also call those "channels"...
21:48:17 <ion> zzo38: *Everything* has patent issues. Hello World probably has patent issues.
21:48:26 <pikhq> zzo38: ATSC isn't inherently very slow.
21:48:46 <FreeFull> Software patents shouldn't exist
21:48:47 <zzo38> pikhq: Then it must be something else that makes it slow, such as having an operating system or something like that
21:49:00 <pikhq> zzo38: Well. Before you can begin displaying you need to wait for a key frame, but that is literally *all* the lag there is.
21:49:23 <zzo38> Even I have a VCR/DVD combination including ATSC, and it is very slow even if ATSC is not being used.
21:49:49 <pikhq> zzo38: The issue is that a lot of embedded software is developed by idiots.
21:50:05 <pikhq> Which is how we get TVs with bootup times.
21:50:11 <zzo38> O, yes, maybe that is what makes it slow.
21:50:45 <pikhq> Because they run Linux, and... I guess use a "normal" init scheme?
21:50:52 <ion> (Btw, Commodore 64’s almost-S-Video output has *much* better quality than its composite output. That probably applies to all S-Video and equivalent composite signals, but C64 is the only thing whose outputs i’ve compared.)
21:51:16 <pikhq> ion: That should be true of any comparison between something with S-Video and composite out.
21:52:15 <zzo38> Yes it is what I said I think running an operating system (whether it is Linux, Windows, or something else) would make it slow.
21:52:45 <ion> I guess an RGB or YPbPr output would have much better quality again.
21:52:45 <pikhq> zzo38: A Linux system *can* boot in a second or so if you know what you're doing.
21:52:48 <pikhq> zzo38: They don't.
21:53:03 <zzo38> I think one of the fastest operating system is DOS, and there is FreeDOS as well which is also fast.
21:53:15 <pikhq> ion: S-Video has luma on one wire and chroma on another, so you don't have to do any filtering on the signal to get luma and chroma.
21:53:38 <pikhq> ion: Also, S-Video has more bandwidth, so you inherently get a better signal.
21:53:39 <ion> pikhq: Doesn’t the chroma wire encode two signals using modulation?
21:53:54 <pikhq> ion: Yes, U and V.
21:54:11 <ion> Split that into two wires without modulation, i’d expect to see a better picture still.
21:54:20 <pikhq> Yeah, that's called component video.
21:54:39 <ion> So are RGB and YPbPr, that’s why i mentioned them. :-P
21:54:40 <pikhq> And it does give you better picture still.
21:55:08 <pikhq> Specifically, that's YPbPr component video.
21:55:25 <FreeFull> zzo38: DOS doesn't imply MS-DOS
21:55:47 <zzo38> FreeFull: I know, it can be FreeDOS as well, which is just as fast as MS-DOS.
21:57:00 <FreeFull> QDOS, DR-DOS, PC-DOS, PTR-DOS, ROM-DOS, Novell DOS, OpenDOS, many others because a DOS is easy to write
21:57:47 <pikhq> Well, yeah; DOS is little more than a standard library, a shell, and a couple utilities.
21:58:08 <FreeFull> echo, copy, prompt, etc
21:59:41 <ion> AmigaDOS
22:03:47 <FreeFull> AmigaDOS had different commands and syntax
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22:20:39 <zzo38> Do you know any open source software for emulating NTSC color artifacts?
22:22:24 <ion> I suppose it wouldn’t be too difficult to write a GLSL shader for that.
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23:04:15 <zzo38> Oops I found something wrong with MediaWiki when cutting off text in the search results it cut off in the middle of a UTF-8 code
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23:11:38 <augur> http://imgur.com/OcBuk
23:11:42 <augur> deserts! \o/
23:14:08 <Gregor> Hooray for desolation!
23:14:18 <augur> Gregor: hooray for mars :)
23:14:48 <Gregor> Huh. I really wouldn't have guessed. *shrugs*
23:15:56 <augur> :)
23:16:17 <ion> Moar: http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/msl/multimedia/raw/
23:16:17 <augur> theres something intense about seeing something so mundane
23:16:22 <augur> and knowing its on another planet
23:18:44 <Gregor> augur: I was trying to find a way to express exactly that, and you've done a better job of it.
23:19:30 <augur> Gregor: you're the third person to tell me that
23:20:31 <Gregor> Huh. Well, here's something intense from right here on planet Earth: http://youtu.be/pkV6hX66HO0 http://youtu.be/FvNmA7FSCW0
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