00:07:24 oerjan, looks it 00:09:03 http://www.reddit.com/r/google/comments/y53ln/google_testing_a_new_favicon/ 00:10:58 ah 00:16:25 -!- derdon has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:25:20 -!- RocketJSquirrel has changed nick to Gregor. 00:26:18 A new favicon again? 00:26:28 Just after we got used to the changed one? 00:27:26 When did Google suddenly start being "We have to change stuff, just because" 00:27:37 I guess when they started changing youtube 00:29:31 Much ado about a frigging favicon. :-P 00:30:16 Hey, we have to look at it on our tabs! 00:46:38 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:56:42 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 01:26:55 http://fun.drno.de/pics/english/anonymous-proxy.png 01:27:11 Turn off favicons if you don't want them 01:27:30 I don't use favicons 01:31:12 Surprise 01:33:14 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:37:02 -!- elliott has joined. 01:37:10 Or if it is just that you don't want to look at it on the tabs, then remove it from the tabs. 01:37:12 kmc: Hey, can astyle re-parenthesise code too? Or is it just indentation? 01:42:13 zzo38: favicons are the quickest way to tell what website is in a tab without reading the title 01:56:07 FreeFull: Maybe to you it is. 01:56:08 -!- zzo38 has quit (Quit: zzo38). 01:59:16 i'm always imagining zzo38 as a person who absorbs text faster than guis 02:03:41 maybe google realized that having a good looking favicon does not drum up business 02:04:11 but having an ugly favicon could perhaps make people think about google more 02:11:57 let's discuss that over a nice bottle of hägar the horrible cola. 02:12:40 I don’t see the ugly in the favicon. 02:17:18 ion: You know C++, right? 02:17:51 A bit. 02:18:10 ion: Is "char *foo" or "char* foo" the common style? IIRC it's the latter for some reason, despite the former being more common in C. 02:19:21 (Maybe because declaration-follows-use breaks down in the presence of C++'s references?) 02:19:38 elliott: I think that's the reasoning. 02:19:43 char* foo would make more sense because “char*” is the type… but in fact “char *foo, *bar” gives foo and bar the same type. So the * tends to be attached to the variable. 02:19:47 It's still evil. 02:19:53 ion: In C, "char *foo" makes a lot more sense. 02:20:12 In C++, it still makes more sense, but not quite as much more for the reason elliott mentioned. 02:20:54 ion: Yes, I'm aware of the dispute in C :P 02:20:56 I don’t really have any statistics about which style people tend to use. 02:20:58 But C++ is all weird and stuff. 02:21:20 C++? More like Crazy++!!!! 02:21:57 @quote C.*arrow 02:21:58 hgolden says: pioneers are the ones with arrows in their backs. at least ours will be categorical arrows. 02:22:19 @quote C\b.*arrow 02:22:20 kmc says: Zagen, you'll need a zygohistomorphic prepromorphism from the bifunctorial Kleisli category of username-password pairs to a combinatory arrow calculus of php scripts 02:22:24 Apparently Artistic Style is ~useless. 02:22:27 @quote \bC\b.*arrow 02:22:27 No quotes match. You untyped fool! 02:22:33 I wonder if the quote i’m thinking of was in lambdabot or somewhere else, like bash.org… 02:22:36 * shachaf isn't sure what ion was looking for. 02:23:18 @quote C\+\+ 02:23:19 Axman6 says: well, if C++ is anything to go by, the next Haskell will have lambdas and easy concurrency! 02:23:28 @quote C\+\+.*arrow 02:23:28 No quotes match. Maybe if you used more than just two fingers... 02:24:30 For instance, astyle can't turn "return (foo);" into "return foo;". 02:24:34 Anyone know a decent C++ reformatter? 02:24:45 Yes. 02:24:50 But I think his rate is rather high. 02:24:52 I want something brutal. I don't care if it destroys all manual alignments or whatever. 02:25:12 -!- augur has joined. 02:26:25 All code should be stored as a representation of the AST with some formatting hints. Editors and viewers would then be able to format it according to the capabilities of the display media and the preferences of the user. 02:26:51 ion: Brilliant! 02:26:55 ion: Thank you; that solves my immediate problem. 02:26:56 Now just implement it in a way that works. 02:27:05 That's the easy part, though. 02:27:13 elliott: You’re welcome. 02:27:22 You’re welliott. 02:27:34 ion: Thanks! 02:27:38 ion: You should play some Crawl for my amusement. Did you hear there's a new server?!?!?! 02:27:45 NEW SERVER?! 02:27:51 I didn’t. 02:27:53 I was told to leave ##crawl and never come back by elliott. 02:27:57 So I don't hear the news anymore, 02:28:14 people obey elliott? 02:28:21 oerjan: monqy said it too. 02:28:27 oerjan: (I didn't actually say that.) 02:28:33 elliott: You said something similar. 02:28:36 Obey elliott. Olliott. 02:28:44 Like "just go away" or something. 02:28:46 ion: See ??cszo. 02:28:50 ??cszo 02:28:51 ah. monqy is of course the utmost authority. 02:28:55 CURSE YOU, CRAWLBOT 02:29:11 Crawl, crawl, crawl your bot gently down the stream... 02:29:19 What was the name of the bot again? I thought it was Henzell, but apparently not. 02:29:27 Gretell? 02:30:01 ion: It was. 02:30:08 ion: CAO is down for a while, so it's Wenzell for now. 02:30:20 (The CßO bot is Sizzell.) 02:30:30 ok 02:30:49 CßO? 02:30:50 This means i could start a third simultaneous Crawl game that will rot there for months without me finishing it. 02:30:56 I prefer CβO 02:31:25 elliott: Did you read _Three Men in a Boat_? 02:31:58 are we really arguing about which eszett is better? 02:32:07 coppro: That's not an eszett. 02:32:14 It's beta than an eszett. 02:32:20 ah 02:32:24 Much beta. 02:32:42 ion: You should play a combo that isn't boring so I can be entertained. 02:32:48 Also, I looked up the codepoint for β. I should've known it by heart. :-( 02:32:56 elliott: How 'bout watching me play NetHack? 02:33:02 I'll pass. 02:33:15 * shachaf = exciting! 02:33:29 I'll play Tou Wiz Elf Law 02:33:40 I only remember the codepoints for λ and π offhand. 02:33:50 out of the Greek letters 02:33:50 ion: Alpha is 3b1, so beta is 3b2. 02:33:52 (Lower-case.) 02:33:59 Also, 2200 is forall and 2203 is exists. 02:34:02 And 2208 is QED? 02:34:09 No, that's \in 02:34:14 220E is QED 02:34:22 Wow, ion plays boring combos. 02:34:28 I don't know any codepoints offhand 02:34:35 except a few randoms in ASCII 02:34:37 CA0 is Reddit eye. 02:34:40 Actually I shouldn't speak since a fair number of my games are boring combos since I stopped playing Crawl and started playing ##crawl after a while. 02:34:56 * oerjan is with coppro 02:35:13 coppro: Hey, I need a C++ reformatter. 02:35:16 Ugh, what's UPWARD INDEX POINTING FINGER THING? 02:35:19 elliott: go work on clang-indent 02:35:25 * shachaf digs through memory. 02:35:38 coppro: Does it work today? 02:35:41 no 02:35:47 coppro: Okay. Next option. 02:35:58 that should be right next to UPWARD MIDDLE POINTING FINGER THING right? 02:36:01 Something like 3D01... 02:36:07 * shachaf looks it up. 02:36:14 261D 02:36:18 Close enough! 02:37:03 225F EQUAL TO--OR IS IT [≟] 02:43:03 It seems another stylesheet change by Google has fixed https://plus.google.com/109925364564856140495/posts 02:43:47 Is ≟ in there? You should post it. 02:45:52 ion: Hooray! 02:47:00 Deewiant: You used to use 3-space indents, right? 02:47:58 pi space indents or bust! 02:49:05 "There are currently 412 options and minimal documentation. 02:49:06 Try UniversalIndentGUI and good luck." 02:49:34 -!- augur_ has joined. 02:50:07 -!- david_werecat has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 02:53:15 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 02:56:07 -!- FreeFull_ has joined. 02:56:16 -!- FreeFull has quit (Disconnected by services). 02:56:29 -!- FreeFull_ has changed nick to FreeFull. 03:14:27 -!- david_werecat has joined. 03:46:59 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 04:22:06 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 04:37:57 shachaf: What was that dumb pathology wrt. sizeof? 04:38:07 mauk'e thing? 04:38:09 The one that made "sizeof (foo)" correct. 04:38:15 Despite that being disgusting. 04:38:29 "sizeof (foo)" as opposed to "sizeof(foo)"? 04:38:49 It's "sizeof foo" for values and "sizeof (Foo)" for types, I guess. 04:38:49 Yes. 04:39:00 http://mauke.hopto.org/stuff/c/sizeof.c 04:39:16 Right. Ugh. 04:39:19 elliott: Just think of it as a little bit of Haskell inside the big scary world of C. 04:39:44 sizeOf (unsafePerformIO (readIORef ioRefToInt)) 04:40:24 Has anyone used uncrustify? 04:41:45 * ion laughs at sizeof.c 04:43:22 sizeof(0)["abcdefghij"]; 04:43:30 Most roundabout way of doing sizeof(char) ? 04:43:50 Yes, that's sizeof ((0)["abcdejojgpshjesgjoretjg"]). 04:44:35 You could just do (0)[""] 04:45:02 Is that valid? 04:45:06 Yes 04:45:08 I know expressions inside sizeof are kind of restricted. 04:45:15 But I'm not sure ""[0] will fly even then. 04:45:15 c-strings are null-terminated 04:45:18 Oh, duh. 04:45:21 Stupid C. 04:47:29 But it allows you to do stuff like while(*(string++)){} 04:48:20 I think sizeof (""[1]) is also valid? 04:48:48 !c printf("%d", sizeof (""[1])); 04:48:53 shachaf: Would be just as valid, but as a principle you shouldn't read from past the end of a string 04:48:53 shachaf: &""[1] is OK. 04:48:54 1 04:48:57 But ""[1] isn't. 04:48:59 oerjan: I said valid, not compiles. 04:49:02 FreeFull: Uh, no. 04:49:11 FreeFull: int main() { return ""[1]; } is invalid C code. 04:49:13 elliott: Right, but sizeof is sort of in between. 04:49:22 Er, ignore that char != int there. 04:49:23 I mean, it doesn't actually evaluate the expression ""[1]. 04:49:33 int main() { char *s = &""[1]; return 0; } /* this is OK, though */ 04:49:39 int main() { char *s = &""[2]; return 0; } /* this is invalid */ 04:49:40 If you can take that expression and &, maybe you can sizeof it too. 04:49:41 elliott: Undefined, but a compiler won't error on it 04:49:49 * shachaf not quite a C lawyer. 04:49:49 Should I be shot for contemplating writing the following Prolog code for use with DCG syntax?: get(A, A, A). put(A, _, A). 04:49:52 FreeFull: I don't think you understand what "valid" means. 04:50:08 shachaf: I think sizeof(""[1]) might actually be valid, yes... sizeof is very strange. 04:50:08 sizeof() is evaluated during compilation 04:50:25 Gets replaced with a constant 04:50:38 (Whether a random compiler will accept a piece of C code doesn't say anything about whether it's valid C or not; it's very difficult (impossible?) to mechanically check for valid C anyway.) 04:50:46 (And this is a question of standards, not compilers, anyway.) 04:51:35 Impossible, I'd be pretty confident. 04:52:10 Well, for a constant string like that the compiler can easily check in this case 04:52:13 shachaf: Right. Because you're not allowed to do ""[2], but you're allowed to do ""[2] in a branch that's never executed, aren't you? 04:52:26 elliott: Right, I was about to say that. 04:52:31 So if (function_that_halts_if_unknown_mathematical_theorem_X_is_false()) 04:52:42 *unsolved, *hypothesis, blah, it's early 04:52:43 And you're allowed to say ""[n] 04:52:55 Where n = result_of_some_function() 04:52:59 (This is a more realistic situation.) 04:53:04 Harder if it's something like for(i=0;i shachaf: Indexing the empty string: realistic. 04:53:40 elliott: Didn't you see my U+13F4E ZERO-WIDTH ELLIPSIS [🍎]? 04:54:02 That doesn't look like an ellipsis 04:54:06 That looks like an apple 04:54:17 whoa, dude 04:54:23 I typed in that codepoint "at random" 04:54:32 And it came out to one of my favorite non-BMP codepoints, RED APPLE? 04:54:37 * shachaf marvels. 04:54:40 I thought Apple only gave one invalid codepoint a glyph. 04:54:49 sizeof (100000)[""] seems to be fine at least in GCC. The “parameter” is not evaluated. 04:54:51 U+1F34E 04:54:58 Or maybe FreeFull is just using some non-OS X operating system that uses an apple for invalid codepoints for some reason. 04:55:11 ion: Well, yes, sizeof obviously can't evaluate its parameter. 04:55:19 Because you can do int foo = complex(); ... sizeof foo ... 04:55:28 ion: The question is about whether the behavior is defined. 04:55:30 The question is "how valid" the expression has to be. 04:55:37 I am pretty sure that if &x is OK, then sizeof x is OK. 04:55:41 But I don't have any references for that. 04:55:42 elliott: Nothing wrong with int foo = complex(); sizeof foo; 04:56:13 Well, sizeof doesn't care what foo's contents are 04:56:16 Just its type 04:56:16 I mean, the type of the expression is known whether or not you evaluate it. 04:57:14 elliott: http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/192/screenshot140812055540.png 04:59:33 shachaf: Hey, you said U+13F4E. But that's U+1F34E. 04:59:36 I feel cheated. 05:00:14 You should ask for your money back. 05:00:34 This is U+13F4E: 𓽎 05:00:52 It's unassigned 05:01:25 Right. 05:01:54 * elliott wonders whether he prefers `void f()\n{}` or `void f()\n{\n}`. 05:02:24 void\nf\n(\n)\n{\n} 05:04:36 I prefer void f() {\n} 05:06:18 Is it generally acceptable to use DCG syntax as though it were syntax for the State monad? 05:07:07 shachaf: Why doesn't `void f();` work for `void f() {}` like `for (;;);` works for `for (;;) {}`? 05:08:37 elliott: As in, declaring a function that does nothing? 05:12:33 Defining, rather than declaring. (The reason it doesn't work is because it'd let you omit the definition of a void-returning function accidentally without complaint, presumably.) 05:12:36 (But pah.) 05:23:01 -!- zzo38 has joined. 05:24:50 * shachaf return 05:24:58 elliott: It's a different kind of {} 05:25:30 elliott: for (...) is followed by a statement, just like if (...) and so on. 05:25:40 {} happens to be a "grouping statement" 05:25:57 But the {} isn't a "grouping statement" at all for function bodies. 05:26:10 (And anyway that syntax is reserved for prototypes.) 05:26:48 Maybe you're asking why function-declaration syntax isn't also followed by a statement. 05:26:56 Sgeo: i understand that the exact semantics of DCG may not be portable... 05:27:14 (from googling around just a bit now) 05:27:37 elliott: It's not just "omit it accidentally". 05:27:49 oerjan, o.O 05:27:50 Definition happens in a different file from declaration. 05:28:10 shachaf: I know all of that. 05:28:15 So I can't, say, rely on different Prologs to put the additional arguments at the end of the ... whatever 05:28:19 ? 05:28:21 that is, it is not in the standard and so is subtly different 05:28:26 Argh 05:28:41 get(A, A, A). put(A, _, A). Is that likely to work as I expect? 05:28:45 elliott: Good, it's all C 101. 05:28:51 Sgeo: yeah that's what i was thinking as i starting googling because i thought they were put at each end 05:28:59 I'm not sure what your proposal for how to make it work is, though? 05:29:10 shachaf: I don't have one, I'm just whining about a problem I know is already solved the best it can be. 05:29:15 that is, i was thinking that i wasn't sure that was right order 05:29:19 Although wouldn't it be funny if you could write `int f(int x) return x:`? 05:29:25 elliott: The problem is probably better-solved by not using C! 05:29:31 (Wait, you're using C++, aren't you?) 05:29:33 Yes. 05:29:43 Try Objective-C++. 05:29:49 @karma objective-c 05:29:49 objective-c has a karma of 6 05:29:54 @karma objectivec 05:29:55 objectivec has a karma of 0 05:29:56 @karma objc 05:29:56 objc has a karma of 7 05:29:58 @karma obj-c 05:29:59 obj-c has a karma of 1 05:30:22 Please tell me that Objective-C++ isn't a thing. 05:30:24 Sgeo: aren't there some DCG predicates you can use to write get and put less directly? 05:30:34 * oerjan hasn't tried it himself 05:30:38 Sgeo: It's a thing. 05:30:52 oerjan, I'm still somewhat new at Prolog, and very unsure of DCG stuff 05:31:08 Besides this iteration, last time I even touched Prolog was... 2006 maybe? 05:31:11 2007? 05:33:21 nl_func_scope_name { Ignore, Add, Remove, Force } 05:33:21 Add or remove newline between function scope and name in a definition 05:33:21 Controls the newline after '::' in 'void A::f() { }' 05:33:24 People put a newline there? 05:33:58 @@ @@ (@read @run unwords . map (\x -> "(@karma " ++ x ++ ")") . map concat . sequence $ [["obj","objective"],["","-"],["c"]]) 05:34:00 objc has a karma of 7 obj-c has a karma of 1 objectivec has a karma of 0 objective-c has a karma of 7 05:34:05 elliott: Sure. 05:34:13 mad people. 05:34:20 elliott: I'm guessing the motivation is "make '^functionname' greppable". 05:34:23 `? mad 05:34:28 Which isn't unreasonable motivation. 05:34:34 ​"But I don't want to go among mad people," Alice remarked. "Oh, you can't help that," said the Cat: "we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad." "How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice. "You must be," said the Cat, "or you wouldn't have come here." 05:34:38 It's similar to the reason for "void\nfoo(...)" 05:34:49 shachaf: Isn't that what tags are for. :( 05:35:01 elliott: no :( 05:35:05 No? 05:35:18 No. 05:35:27 elliott: Speaking of which, I got really confused today grepping through GHC RTS code. 05:35:28 Why not? 05:35:29 Yes you are correct you must be mad or you wouldn't have come here. No escape either, sorry. 05:35:32 By grepping I mean ack-grepping. 05:35:37 `addquote Yes you are correct you must be mad or you wouldn't have come here. No escape either, sorry. 05:35:41 Because ack doesn't search .cmm files by default. 05:35:41 855) Yes you are correct you must be mad or you wouldn't have come here. No escape either, sorry. 05:35:53 sorry 05:37:59 ack-grep 05:38:14 ack 05:40:19 Is that ack an acknowledgement? 05:40:28 No. 05:40:46 elliott: Let's say int (*f)(int); 05:40:57 How should you call f? f(5) or (*f)(5)? 05:41:10 f(5). 05:41:25 But declaration-blah-use. :-( 05:41:48 Maybe it should be (**f)(5), just to be on the safe side! 05:42:28 > "(" ++ repeat "*" ++ "f)(5)" 05:42:29 Couldn't match expected type `[GHC.Types.Char]' 05:42:29 against inferred ty... 05:42:35 meh, cycle 06:05:07 shachaf: Should I port this C++ codebase to Rust? 06:05:21 elliott: No. (Yes. (No.)) 06:05:33 Which one do I believe? 06:06:11 ((The) innermost) outermost ((one)). 06:08:27 elliott: None of them. 06:08:35 (Not even this one.) 06:08:50 Believe this one. 06:09:20 Believe that one ☝. 06:09:41 Keep your finger to yourself. 06:09:43 Believe this one: ☟ 06:09:45 No. Don't believe any one. 06:16:55 Mu. 06:17:11 Moo. 06:29:19 If you want to have values of a recusrive datatype replace by the value operated by a monad, you can do something which resembles it somewhat by continuation monads, it seem like, a little bit. 06:29:58 Prolog doesn't have lambdas, does it? 06:29:58 :/ 06:30:28 lambda prolog does! 06:30:48 C doesn't have lambdas, does it? 06:31:10 Lambda C does! 06:31:30 The Greek alphabet doesn’t have lambdas, does it? 06:31:50 Actually I think it does, isn't it? 06:32:08 zzo38: I think you may remember incorrectly. 06:32:31 What about deltas? 06:36:46 Probably Greek alphabet have deltas too. 06:36:51 Probably. 06:38:50 What about omicrons? 06:39:50 now you are just being silly. 06:40:18 Omicrons are a lie. 06:44:36 Perhaps you can even make up a kind of multi-continuation by CodensityAsk with some GADT. 06:46:18 The lambda Greek alphabet has lambdas. 06:47:34 XD 06:50:58 Although I think it could also be made as a product of monads. 06:59:05 Or, make something else by Codensity with some GADT? 07:03:14 * oerjan swats everyone with a digamma -----Ϝ 07:06:07 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:08:10 that is not a digamma. that is an F 07:08:42 > 'Ϝ' 07:08:44 '\988' 07:09:42 I BUG TO DIFFER 07:10:07 my font sucks 07:10:17 ps since when can oerjan do unicode 07:10:36 since some months? 07:11:11 at least i can cut and paste it 07:13:54 That digamma looks like an F to me too 07:14:11 Charmap does say it's digamma though 07:14:13 i assume it's what latin F descended from 07:14:26 ϝ Here is a lowercase digamma 07:14:33 if ((grd[you.x_pos][you.y_pos] < DNGN_STONE_STAIRS_UP_I 07:14:33 || grd[you.x_pos][you.y_pos] > DNGN_ROCK_STAIRS_UP) 07:14:33 && (grd[you.x_pos][you.y_pos] < DNGN_RETURN_FROM_ORCISH_MINES 07:14:33 || grd[you.x_pos][you.y_pos] >= 150) 07:14:33 && grd[you.x_pos][you.y_pos] != DNGN_EXIT_HELL) 07:14:34 ew, I really need to fix this indentation 07:14:37 (thanks for being my pastebin, #esoteric) 07:15:09 that's just elliott's subtle way of telling us to go to hell 07:16:10 why would I need a subtle way to do that 07:16:18 It's funny how zeta is between epsilon and eta 07:16:32 When in latin it's at the end of the alphabet 07:16:57 elliott: How about fixing it with a between() function? 07:18:04 Wait, that's an ||, not an && 07:18:14 Anyway, how about fixing it with, y'know, *some* abstraction? 07:18:32 shachaf: I don't get paid that much. 07:18:40 (Also I didn't write that bit.) 07:18:55 (I was complaining more that the reformatter had messed up the alignment, really.) 07:19:05 Oh, you're using a reformatter? 07:19:25 ...I'm pretty sure that this tutorial... isn't so great :/ 07:19:25 Yes. 07:19:34 $ wc -l uncrustify.cfg 07:19:34 231 uncrustify.cfg 07:19:40 It's... a pretty elaborate reformatter. 07:19:52 I wrote those lines by hand. 07:20:30 I'm pretty sure this wine-flavored beverage... 07:20:35 U+1F60E 07:20:39 is not an emulator? 07:20:39 Isn't that grape. 07:20:45 s/that/so/ 07:20:55 YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH 07:23:06 oerjan: By the way, ban everyone & go to hell. 07:23:11 (See!) 07:23:33 i'm sorry elliott, i cannot do that. 07:23:48 Hmm. Have you tried? 07:24:16 no. 07:24:20 Let me try. 07:24:26 /op shachaf 07:24:34 /ban elliott 07:24:40 Nope, it's not working. 07:25:22 oerjan: Then how can you be sure? 07:25:53 by the power of ... CHEESY REFERENCES 07:26:04 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 07:30:36 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 07:31:19 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 07:36:11 -!- nooga has joined. 08:18:48 -!- augur_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:19:17 -!- augur has joined. 08:42:24 lol 08:46:54 lol 09:25:40 -!- asiekierka has joined. 09:54:50 -!- ineiros has quit (Write error: Broken pipe). 09:54:56 -!- ineiros has joined. 10:19:33 -!- mig22 has joined. 10:19:34 -!- atriq has joined. 10:31:39 -!- david_werecat has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 10:54:49 -!- atriq has quit (Quit: Leaving). 11:18:02 -!- nortti| has joined. 11:18:50 -!- nortti- has quit (*.net *.split). 11:35:21 -!- derdon has joined. 11:55:02 -!- boily has joined. 12:41:10 im not up to constructing a derivative joke, but "for grape good", "wine users", "sour grapes" 12:42:19 hi 12:47:13 butts 12:47:43 * shachaf should sleep. 12:47:53 hichaf 12:48:40 More like "good nichaf" 12:48:42 "Did people ever refer to Kaliningrad as Soviet Prussia?" 12:48:46 @localtiem 12:48:50 Local time for shachaf is Tue Aug 14 05:48:46 2012 12:53:37 kmc: Wow, irssi doesn't handle this "Zalgo" thing very well. 12:53:42 E.g. m̸͔̟͖̟̩͎̜̈́ͦ̽̕ͅe̪̟͉̰̼̮̞̳ͨͩ̿ͤr̵̷̼̼̙͎̗̯ͮ́͘ȉ̵̢̟̰̝̻́͊̔̄ͦ̚͠j̖̱͆̓͌̽̃͊̚͜n̟̗ͨ͗̀͝ 12:54:47 singing talent show winner becomes judge on singing talent show several years later. 12:55:42 (singing (talen show winner)) becomes (judge on singing) (talent show) several years later. 12:59:36 Several talent show years later. 12:59:42 (They're very different from regular years.) 12:59:43 m̪̰̬̙̝̂̊͟͝e̺̠͚̳̯̯͚̠͉͒̇̓ͪr͈̠̹̖̩̲̰͔ͧ͟i̿ͥ҉̬̫̺̕j̶͙̭̭̼̰̤͑ͦ̒ͪͬͨ͘ͅn̡̫̣̲̳̘̝̝͗̏̀̚ 12:59:46 ̨̞̟̰ͣ̎͊͘m̴̟̤̬͎̩̺̮̗̑ͧ̑͟ë̫̪͉͚͓͙̗̰́͂͋̌͗r̜͊̓ͥͩ̄̐ī̵̴͓̬̾̏̈́ͫj̷͈̯̤̣͚̏̃ṉ̴̛̹͙̄̃̍ͧ͜ 12:59:49 ̯͓̪̜͙̉ͫ͗̀ͯ̈́̋ͫ͜m̧̠̾͟ȅ̸̠͉͍̗̙͕̩̣ͤ̄ͭ̅͠r̸͙̣̦̫͎͈̩̲͗ͪ̍i̴̟̱͇͖͎̪̮ͣ̅̀̿͐̊̿͠j̣͙̜̃̒͡n̡͚̥̔̑̑ͧͭ̂̍́ 13:00:04 from WP "[has performed] for Pope Benedict XVI, Oprah Winfrey and Queen Elizabeth II" 13:00:05 I wonder what that looks like to other people. 13:01:38 for me it's merijn with lots of boxes with four 0's 13:01:39 i found "Texas Honkey-Tonk Cantina" in Estonia 13:02:18 kmc: Was it an Authentic American Experience? 13:04:03 in my home suburb, on the main road are the typical australian shops, but head down the side streets and you enter a very asian world 13:04:15 i feel like a complete outsider there 13:04:39 fizzie: beats me 13:04:47 i have little desire to eat there 13:05:08 they would rightfully all wonder if some scruffy 30yr old wandering about in the middle of the day was selling or seeking drugs 13:05:13 Maybe if you tell them some American secrets you'd get a discount. 13:07:13 There's a "Classic American Diner" in Tampere, Finland, incidentally. 13:07:14 start eating some chocolate and it probably looks like i've got the munchies 13:07:26 It's not quite up to a "Honkey-Tonk" standard though. 13:07:57 a place actually named honkey-tonk sounds hardcore levels of american 13:07:58 reminds me of iceland's kantrybaer 13:08:44 (pardon my filure to use fancy latin-1 symbols) 13:08:45 They've decorated the Diner in some sort of fakey-American way. 13:09:10 Latin-1? Vade retro! 13:09:17 fizzie: and dress like this? http://images.tvrage.com/screencaps/31/6190/206619.jpg 13:10:04 itidus21: Well, they had some sort of an uniform, that much I remember; maybe not exactly like that. 13:10:26 heres another! http://download.lardlad.com/framegrabs/3F20/124.jpg 13:10:31 It looks like this: http://www.fonecta.fi/images/stillpics///files/369441.fonecta.client/1240246822148_1_large.jpg 13:10:44 oh wow 13:11:16 I'm trying to find a photo that'd show their "paintings", I think there was something about them. 13:12:15 These are all so low-resolution things. :/ 13:12:46 I think they had photoshopped stuff so that it looks as if they'd have existed for years and years, or something like that. 13:13:21 i remember some restaurant here which had license plates all over the walls.. and was called captain america's 13:14:53 They have some sort of a competition that you get your name on the hall-of-fame list if you eat (alone) one of their "Big Tower" burgers; it's got 1020 grams of meat, plus all the other stuff. 13:14:58 That I guess is American? 13:15:34 -!- oerjan has joined. 13:15:59 i have been convinced that eating comically oversized burgers designed to give you heart problems is an american tradition 13:17:37 reminds me of my old coworker's ex-wife, when she was in the us she supposedly got a diploma for eating "the world's hottest burger" 13:18:22 (she also had the habit of making food so spicy they had to throw it away) 13:19:15 There was a chili sauce with the brand name "PAIN 100%" advertised in the shop yesterday. 13:20:09 http://www.scorchio.co.uk/pain-sauce-p-433.html <- this one. 13:20:22 I doubt it's very high up in any rankings or anything, but at least it tries. 13:20:24 08:42:24: lol 13:20:24 08:46:54: lol 13:20:30 oerjan: lol 13:20:54 you know if history had taken a slightly different turn "lol" could be the emoticon for raising both hands in celebration 13:20:57 looks like a patent medicine 13:21:07 fizzie: TELL ME ABOUT: Code reformatters. 13:21:25 i'm sure myndzi would agree, except he's not here :( 13:21:45 Oh, and I was in this real backwoods "bar" today, and they had a (handwritten) page advertising their Facebook page on the bulletin board. 13:21:47 oerjan: why would it have been? \o/ looks morerealistic 13:21:51 oerjan: to me they look like tanks with missing turrets 13:21:57 itidus21: a nocebo medicine 13:22:01 elliott: I don't know about them. 13:22:19 oh nocebo....... i only recently saw this word on WP 13:23:03 dun dun dunning-kruger, wait haven't i said that before 13:23:47 fizzie: Useless. :( 13:24:15 quintopia: maybe if backslash had never been invented... 13:24:43 oerjan: what a strange alternate universe 13:24:59 in this universe, windows somehow was nearly unix-compatible from the start 13:25:21 that was probably intentional 13:26:01 as a result, linux never took off, and open source is restricted to the marginal gnu movement 13:26:13 this is my artistic depiction of lol's as tanks http://oi46.tinypic.com/2cieivn.jpg 13:26:36 why not tie fighters? 13:26:54 why not zoidbergs? 13:26:57 seen in sarajevo: http://i.imgur.com/fGBV3.jpg 13:27:48 well i saw the L's as the tank treads 13:28:09 they look like side-mounted turrets in that pic 13:28:27 fizzie: did the bar have a handwritten qr code? 13:28:33 fair enough 13:28:39 -!- derdon has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:28:52 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 13:28:55 one thing for sure is that they look like they should look like something 13:29:07 ^lol's that is 13:30:01 the person raising their hands is so obvious in hindsight 13:34:04 oerjan: Sadly, no. :/ 13:34:19 But I located the place after a bit of Google Mapsing around: http://goo.gl/maps/rJf7g 13:34:26 (Should open a streetview thing.) 13:34:33 It didn't look like a Facebooky place. 13:36:09 Their page stats seem to be: "6 like this; 1 talking about this; 27 were here; Also on: foursquare". 13:36:48 The foursquare page has 13 total people, 14 total check-ins; the Mayor of the place is the one with 2. 13:37:33 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Good night). 13:55:39 ??? Pidgin's Skype plugin highlights both parties in the same color. 14:19:05 lol foursquare 14:45:12 -!- mig22 has quit (Quit: mig22). 14:50:54 i have been convinced that eating comically oversized burgers designed to give you heart problems is an american tradition // I admit that I have done this. 15:20:27 -!- ogrom has joined. 16:20:03 -!- asiekierka has quit (Quit: Connection reset by PO). 16:55:38 -!- derdon has joined. 16:58:35 -!- zzo38 has joined. 17:07:56 Burgers that give you more calories than you should have in a day? 17:09:42 are there such burgers? 17:12:24 Yes 17:20:33 -!- elliott has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 17:21:30 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 17:27:57 Is a kilogram of meat enough for that? 17:28:10 (With all the other fluff you'd expect in a burger with a kilo of meat.) 18:01:59 -!- monqy has joined. 18:20:05 When your middle name is danger... 18:20:20 is this a joke about bad parenting 18:20:23 i love jokes 18:21:04 It's the name of a song 18:21:07 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tw2VDWB-u2Y 18:21:24 what an awful joke 18:34:00 -!- ogrom has quit (Quit: Left). 18:42:19 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 18:57:05 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 19:28:17 monqy, what's green, grows on lawns and is made of concrete. 19:29:52 -!- Taneb has joined. 19:30:47 i'm bad at riddles 19:30:47 hmm, I don't like that hg commits are annotated with the branch name 19:30:55 monqy, it's grass. 19:31:03 -!- Taneb has changed nick to atriq. 19:31:52 what if my local naming scheme for branches is like anagrams of "fucktard" or something? 19:32:39 or... multiples of 97 in finnish 19:33:50 apparently, "The biggest advantage to using named branches is that every changeset on a branch has the branch name as part of its metadata" 19:37:08 olsner: Nolla, yhdeksänkymmentäseitsemän, satayhdeksänkymmentäneljä, kaksisataayhdeksänkymmentäyksi, kolmesataakahdeksankymmentäkahdeksan, neljäsataakahdeksankymmentäviisi, and so on. 19:37:40 fizzie: indeed 19:38:08 except I'd probably start at yhdeksänkymmentäseitsemän 19:38:20 Today I spent money on cosplay 19:38:47 olsner: Are you saying 0 is not a multiple of 97! 19:40:54 fizzie: no, I'll just leave that particular multiple for last since it's boring 19:41:46 also, why use yhdeksänkymmentäseitsemänsata when you can jump straight to yhdeksänkymmentäseitsemänsatayhdeksänkymmentäseitsemän 19:42:57 when is it sata and when is it sataa? 19:43:39 atriq: What money and what cosplay? 19:43:58 zzo38, Jake English cosplay, 50 pence for some sticky tape 19:44:08 is there no torvalds rant about how mercurial is ridiculously stupid? 19:44:21 atriq, i don't think jake wears sticky tape 19:44:35 Phantom_Hoover, you don't know how cheap my cosplay is 19:44:43 um 19:44:51 are you making sticky tape glasses? 19:44:56 No 19:45:05 I printed out his symbol and stuck it to my shirt 19:46:23 olsner: “A hundred”: “sata”. “Two hundred”: “kaksisataa”, like “two hundreds”. 19:46:26 It keeps ripping 19:46:30 olsner: It's "sata" if there's just one hundred. 19:47:04 atriq, just say you're Jake post-robot fight. 19:47:08 olsner: And you wouldn't generally say "yhdeksänkymmentäseitsemänsataayhdeksänkymmentäseitsemän" for 9797 either, you'd just say "yhdeksäntuhatta seitsemänsataayhdeksänkymmentäseitsemän". 19:47:21 Phantom_Hoover, it ripped during the course of the day 19:47:39 And in an odd place 19:48:16 fizzie: ah, of course ... I didn't know the word for thousand yet :) 19:48:24 Hey, the University of Canberra wants my oppinion 19:49:18 olsner: That's tuhat/tuhatta (compare sata/sataa) if you happen to need a single thousand in Finspeak. 19:50:00 there's bound to be one or two multiples of 97 between 1000 and 2000 19:50:12 You never know. 19:50:26 We also got kicked out of... 19:50:34 the top floor of the multi-storey car park 19:50:39 no, it's like unexplored terrain, we'll see when I get there 19:50:47 olsner: I tried three random numbers that were >= 1000, < 2000, and none of them were multiples of 97. It doesn't look good. 19:51:55 I found two primes after just 10 numbers, so 1/5 numbers are primes, but 0/3 are multiples of 97 19:52:29 I think this is what's called mathematics. 19:53:03 Mathematics, or the art of finding and observing numbers 19:53:35 Dziewieć tysięcy siedemset dziewiećdziesiąt siedem 19:54:34 I think 194 is a multiple of 97 19:54:42 But it's not over a thousand. 19:54:44 So 1940 would be too 19:54:55 How come! 19:55:01 are either of 194 or 1940 primes? 19:55:05 No 19:55:08 fizzie, psychology 19:55:18 A prime isn't a multiple of anything but 1 and itself 19:55:32 Numbers tend to act like numbers that look like numbers similar to themselves 19:55:35 Peer pressure and thart 19:55:43 I see, how clever. 19:55:54 So no multiple of 97 other than 97 is a prime 19:56:30 how do you know? have you checked all of them? 19:56:44 Yes, I have 19:57:59 you can't have, there's an infinite number of primes! 1/5th of infinity is still infinity, you know 19:58:34 Oh, elliott is not here. 19:58:55 They mistyped his name. ‘According to sources, despite his initial concern, Ryan relaxed after deciding that Romney would "absolutely love Elliot" when the two met at the Republican National Convention later this month.’ http://www.theonion.com/articles/paul-ryan-wondering-if-he-should-have-told-romney,29166/ 19:59:23 olsner: I checked all of them 19:59:27 The whole infinity 19:59:42 97 is the only prime that is a multiple of 97 20:00:34 I see 20:11:55 That must have taken a while 20:19:09 -!- atriq has set topic: Behold! The enchanting pants of Narcissus! | Just a remote control and some old gum | atriq is Taneb, just so you know | With creativity, anything can be a topic | except this | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 20:19:42 Hah. Stephen Colbert mentioned “Hepatitis C++” 20:35:00 -!- ais523 has joined. 20:36:10 Hmm 20:36:22 newb isn't in my spell-checker, but newbie is 20:36:40 That's because it's spelled “n00b” 20:37:54 "newb" is in a weird place between not correctly spelled and not sufficiently incorrectly spelled 20:48:42 However, does your spellcheck ignore digits in words? 20:49:20 zzo38, it treats them as whitespace 20:49:26 Same with "'"s 20:49:35 Which makes it think "isn't" isn't a word 20:50:01 Oops 20:51:45 sounds like you should throw it out and start checking your spelling manually and/or learn to spell 20:51:50 aargh 20:52:00 compiler I've written is failing due to some sort of combinatorial explosion that causes strings to not fit in memory 20:52:14 boss's solution is to attempt to rewrite the compiler to use a data structure other than strings, which has a higher length limit 20:53:27 I'm currently trying to explain why that's unlikely to help 20:53:39 is the compiler using only string as its data structure? 20:53:43 (apart from the obvious reasons, there's also the issue that the string in question is copied to the compiler's output) 20:53:57 olsner: no, this is happening within the output code 20:54:15 when it converts its parse tree representation of the code it wants to generate to a string so it can put it in a file 20:55:02 oh... that'll really fix itself by allowing strings longer than the strings that don't fit in memory in the first place 20:55:18 ais523: Can't it write the string straight to the file without storing it in memory? 20:55:53 you should point out that the real problem is the lack of infinite storage and suggest he buys you a turing machine 20:58:23 FreeFull: you are missing the point 20:58:38 just like my boss is 20:58:58 a combinatorial explosion in the length of the output is going to make the output useless 20:59:11 Why is it growing so much? 20:59:13 especially as we're targetting embedded systems here… 20:59:19 FreeFull: I don't know, presumably a bug 20:59:35 Well, I assumed it was intentional 21:02:13 why? 21:02:26 why would you think I'd intentionally put a combinatorial explosion in my compilers? 21:04:26 maybe your objective is to make your boss disappear for a few weeks implementing special over-long strings so you can get some work done 21:04:29 -!- Patashu has joined. 21:05:38 -!- Patashu has quit (Client Quit). 21:09:31 -!- atriq has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:28:20 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 21:30:02 -!- boily has quit (Quit: Poulet!). 21:34:12 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 21:52:23 -!- david_werecat has joined. 21:56:54 Can you make a music by square wave? 21:58:14 oh man 21:58:15 this is great 21:58:39 What is great? 22:00:09 zzo38: Sure, although in digital synthesis you have to use band-limiting to avoid aliasing artifacts. 22:01:16 ion: I'm totally in parentheses right now, if you know what I mean. 22:01:28 hmm if everybody here is Finnish, any suggestions for things to do in Helsinki? 22:01:30 ion: Well I suppose you can do that too. Famicom audio 2A03, VRC6, MMC5, Sunsoft includes square channels most of them you can adjust the duty as well except Sunsoft is fixed at 50% duty. 22:01:41 lexande: I'm Finnish but I've only spent two weeks of my life in Finland. 22:01:55 For one of them I was three years old. 22:02:34 * ion strips shachaf out of parentheses with $ 22:02:59 ion: You have no idea what you're doing, fool! 22:03:04 I have a *type signature*! 22:03:30 * ion unsafeCoerces shachaf 22:03:40 It won't help. 22:04:04 foo $ shachaf :: bar, see. 22:04:17 lexande: Did you go to a sauna? That's a popular thing to do in Finland. 22:04:23 I hear that's all they ever do, in fact. 22:04:42 * ion is on IRC from sauna 22:04:44 2A03 and MMC5 square channel is 12.5% or 25% or 50% or 75% duty, and VRC6 square channel can have eight settings of duty from 1/16 to 8/16. 22:05:19 Famicom Disk System audio can also be programmed with a square wave. 22:05:34 zzo38: PWM with square waves is a nice effect in music synthesis. 22:06:22 ion: OK. Possibly it can be made also with Csound. 22:08:25 Does Csound have a command for PWM? 22:11:17 ion: Have you written music? 22:11:24 Yeah, some. 22:11:44 Which one? What program? What format? What other stuff? 22:12:13 ion probably used Famicon Disk System. 22:12:38 shachaf: Are you sure? 22:13:14 zzo38: No. 22:13:29 I’ve used Lilypond to engrave musical scores. Other than that, don’t really use PCs to make music. (Except i’d like to continue my software synthesizer project some day, but i have trouble getting things done.) 22:14:52 What software synthesizer project is it? 22:15:32 Nothing special, just a program that takes MIDI in and pushes audio out. 22:16:34 ion: You must be taking part in some kind of vagueness-in-IRC competition, right? :p 22:17:17 I’m not sure what to say about it. :-D 22:17:32 It’s a software synthesizer. That’s what it does. 22:17:35 I found some program to make MIDI file, called SakuraMML, but I get some error when I try to use it in my computer 22:18:43 I was writing it in C++ in 2004 and this was the last thing i got out of it before the project pretty much died. If i ever get around to continuing, i’ll write it from scratch in Haskell. http://johan.kiviniemi.name/tmp/syna-20040729.ogg 22:18:55 OK 22:19:13 Csound can also take MIDI to make audio out. 22:19:25 Yes, plenty of programs can. 22:20:01 ion: Sure, sure, but that would cover just about anything. Is it a wavetable kind of thing, or a pile of LFOs and simple waveforms and filters wired together and summed up, or something more generic, or something more restricted? 22:20:24 Although, Csound can also take other input formats as well, such as the numeric score. It doesn't have MML but possibly software could be written to convert MML to numeric score format. 22:20:33 I used band-limited impulse trains. 22:21:39 But it could use any method of synthesis, that’s just what i implemented (in addition to pure sine waves) so far. 22:21:51 That's more like it. (Though I have zero clue why I proceeded with the interrogation.) 22:22:13 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZBXA4ye_us&fmt=18 http://johan.kiviniemi.name/music/delusions_of_grand_piano.pdf 22:24:14 The sound in syna-20040729.ogg consisted of a “supersaw”, i.e. two sawtooth waves (made by integrating BLITs with an appropriate bias) playing the same thing with one of them very slightly out of tune. And the output was low-pass filtered. 22:24:28 with a varying cutoff frequency 22:25:15 Csound has a large number of commands for synthesis, though, including sine waves, wavetable, waveguide, granular, FM, additive, subtractive, noise, physical modeling, stochastic, samples, prepared pianos, and a lot more and they can also be combined using mathematical formulas. 22:25:24 yes 22:25:37 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 22:26:57 There are also many kind of input, including MIDI, GUI, Wii remotes, etc 22:27:38 I wrote an FM synth in C that outputs raw sound data 22:28:30 The VRC7 Famicom audio is also FM synthesis 22:29:03 -!- ais523 has joined. 22:29:13 I wrote a sine wave synth in C that combine wave to make sound for telephones (DTMF, blue box, red box, dial tone, busy signals, SIT) and that outputs raw sound data. 22:31:56 Does anyone make .NSF using all six expansions including the 2A03 audio? 22:33:38 I heard a rather fancy "sound texture synthesis" presentation at a conference a while ago. The funniest bit was that even though it's really non-physically-inspired (bandpass filterbank + parametric statistics -- distribution moments up to kurtosis, auto- and crosscorrelations -- of the subbands, and then synthesis to get signals with those parameters) it did a rather nice job of reproducing ... 22:33:45 ... sort of "stationary" environmental sounds, like rain, wind, fire, whatever. 22:33:50 (I may have already mentioned this.) 22:34:18 O, OK. Do you have a Csound code to implement those sound effects? 22:37:27 fizzie: Sounds cool. Do you have a URL? 22:38:09 zzo38: No, though their paper has the algorithm, and it should be possible to reimplement it. Maybe I should give it a go some day. (Though they don't give their parameter values for their sample sounds, which they mention were based on collecting those statistics from "commercially available CDs".) 22:38:38 ion: http://www.cns.nyu.edu/~jhm/mcdermott_waspaa09_final.pdf looks like the paper I remember, though I haven't been to that workshop. 22:38:45 Thanks 22:38:50 It was possibly at ICASSP. 22:40:47 It has some amount of possibly-not-so-interesting-from-some-perspectives stuff about perception. 22:41:02 I see they've made a longer journal paper out of it: http://www.cns.nyu.edu/~jhm/McDermott_2011_texture_w_SI.pdf 22:41:15 But that probably goes deeper to that side of it. 22:41:59 Thanks 22:42:26 (And you can probably get more "realistic" sound synthesis by other means if that's the primary goal, I just thought it was kinda interesting.) 22:43:47 Man, synthesis people have it so easy, they can just have a presentation with 50% (or more) of demo audio samples, and everyone'll sit, listen and pay attention since it's not just a boring presentation like a hundred others. 22:51:57 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 22:53:50 -!- mig22 has joined. 22:54:09 Went to the logs to find out where I heard about this thing, and found this amusing description of a guy who used to stick electrodes into ferret brains. 22:54:37 -!- mig22 has quit (Client Quit). 22:57:32 I think I've pasted this before, but maybe it's still amusing: http://sprunge.us/ENPI 23:03:43 -!- nooga has joined. 23:08:30 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 23:10:34 -!- Lumpio- has joined. 23:11:35 -!- hogeyui_ has joined. 23:12:31 -!- kinoSi has joined. 23:14:22 -!- MoALTz has quit (Quit: Leaving). 23:47:18 Do you know if the Bluetooth on OpenPandora is compatible with Wii remotes? Also do you know if it is possible to replace the operating system, and if doing so will affect the battery life? 23:59:30 wait... quintopia and shachaf are /both/ LWians? 23:59:40 * soundnfury is freaked out by small worlds