←2012-08-16 2012-08-17 2012-08-18→ ↑2012 ↑all
00:00:27 <zzo38> Is it possible to set up something that some parts have race conditions but that the final result does not depend on the race conditions?
00:01:07 <kmc> yes
00:01:24 * Sgeo wonders if Tcl might be a sufficiently interesting language for kmc to look at.
00:01:34 <kmc> in the simulator each wire is either low, high, transitioning, or unknown
00:02:14 <kmc> in a particular logic family you have a rule like "low is below 0.3 V, high is above 2.7 V" or something
00:02:47 <kmc> and the "transitioning" state corresponds to a voltage between those two
00:02:53 <kmc> on the way from low to high or vice versa
00:03:08 <ion> Search engine keyword: static discipline
00:03:21 <kmc> gate delay is the amount of time between when the inputs all reach definite low/high values, and when the output reaches a definite low/high value
00:04:06 <kmc> anyway to answer zzo38's question, you could have (say) an AND gate where one input is low, and the other is still transitioning
00:04:19 <kmc> and yet the output could already be low, if sufficient time has elapsed since that first input went low
00:05:29 <kmc> and yeah this is significant in CPU designs
00:05:34 <kmc> at least the little one in the class
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00:05:40 <ForABetterWorld> http://guardianlv.com/2012/08/why-america-needs-gary-johnson/ http://www.garyjohnson2012.com
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00:05:58 <kmc> processor has various functional units which get wired to each other differently for every instruction
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00:06:27 <kmc> the clock needs to be slow enough for the longest path of units which actually occurs
00:06:55 <kmc> but some unused units might still be stabilizing
00:07:01 <Sgeo> kmc, so this paper doesn't consider applicatives to be a subtype of operatives?
00:07:06 <kmc> nope
00:07:10 <zzo38> How fast can it be?
00:07:14 <Sgeo> And just use combiner for both?
00:07:26 <kmc> i forgot about the word "combiner"
00:07:38 <kmc> applicative and operative are two distinct primitive types
00:08:10 <kmc> 'wrap' is a builtin which turns an operative into an applicative
00:08:17 <kmc> and 'unwrap' does the opposite
00:08:45 <kmc> you can write 'wrap' without any specialness but not in such a way that it can be unwrapped
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00:09:59 <kmc> and you want 'unwrap' in order to write 'apply'
00:10:50 <kmc> but i did 'apply' in a different hacky way which i think is still basically correct
00:11:20 <kmc> except that kernel's apply will give a clear runtime type error when used on something that's not an applicative
00:11:24 <kmc> whereas mine will just shit brix
00:15:34 <Sgeo> XChat is deciding to act freezy
00:15:55 <kmc> astounding
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00:16:37 <kmc> think i'll sleep now
00:16:39 <kmc> good night all
00:17:17 <Sgeo> Night kmc
00:17:22 <Sgeo> $define!
00:17:50 <kmc> d€fine
00:18:48 <kmc> £ambda
00:20:04 <Sgeo> I don't get the "improper ancestor" thing
00:20:17 <Sgeo> "The transitive closure of the parent relation
00:20:18 <Sgeo> is ancestor ; the reflexive transitive closure is improper ancestor."
00:20:59 <kmc> meaning "ancestor or self" i think
00:21:21 <kmc> like "subset" versus "proper subset"
00:21:46 <kmc> anyway sleeping for real
00:22:00 <kmc> enjoy the kerneling Sgeo :)
00:22:04 <Sgeo> Night
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00:28:21 <Jafet> δε∫μn̈
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00:36:16 <elliott> Jafet: what's that
00:36:50 <Jafet> δε∫μn̈.
00:37:30 <elliott> is it defun
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00:49:50 <oerjan> why would you want to desun
00:54:12 <Phantom_Hoover> Silly oerjan, it's thesmn.
00:54:20 <elliott> `welcome kinoSi
00:54:24 <HackEgo> kinoSi: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
00:54:40 <oerjan> no way δ is th
01:27:43 <Gregor> þ is a much better th than ð!
01:28:49 <oerjan> which is a better th than δ
01:29:18 <Gregor> Oh, heh, didn't even notice that wasn't eth. Not sure what the heck that is.
01:29:35 <oerjan> i guess it's all greek to you
01:29:59 <Gregor> *sobs*
01:30:00 <Sgeo> I actually understand the difference between Kernel's equal? and eq?
01:34:22 <ion> I’ve forgotten the difference.
01:36:38 <Sgeo> equal? roughly is supposed to be the same for objects that are equivalent except in terms of mutation, and eq? for objects that behave the same even when mutated
01:38:45 <zzo38> Does anyone have any open source FPGA yet, and how fast would they run?
02:07:59 <elliott> I've asked this before but how do you grep for the contents of a commit in git again.
02:08:06 <elliott> Like if I want to find the last commit with "blah" in the diff.
02:16:58 <zzo38> Is there anything to make something like CLCLC-INTERCAL's backtracking in Haskell?
02:17:48 * Sgeo sads at the lack of syntax sugar for defining applicatives in Kernel
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03:22:53 <elliott> coppro: clang warnings are infallible and perfect right
03:23:03 <elliott> oh wait i see the problem here
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03:46:35 <coppro> elliott: oh?
03:47:39 <elliott> it turns out my code was actually broken!
03:47:44 <elliott> clang warnings live to see another day
03:47:48 <coppro> haha
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04:07:48 <shachaf> elliott: clang++ warnings.
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04:42:42 <coppro> shachaf: same thing
04:42:57 <shachaf> coppro: It was a subtle way to increase clang's karma.
04:43:04 <shachaf> A pun of sorts, see. Except not really.
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05:15:08 <elliott> does anyone know about MTAs
05:15:28 <elliott> specifically please advocate whichever of exim or postfix you prefer
05:19:23 <ion> I do like postfix, but it has been like 12 years since i tried exim the last time.
05:19:37 <shachaf> Metro Transport Authorities?
05:19:43 <shachaf> kmc knows a bit, I think.
05:20:36 <elliott> ion: How much painful config will I have to do to get Postfix doing reasonable things after installing it? Note: Multiply any pain by 10 because I'm having to use mailman.
05:20:48 <elliott> (Also, Debian, so hopefully the defaults should be not completely terrible.)
05:21:36 <shachaf> elliott: There's no good Haskell book I can recommend with a straight heart.
05:21:39 <shachaf> With good face?
05:21:41 <shachaf> Whatever.
05:21:49 <shachaf> elliott: Weren't you writing one?
05:21:54 <shachaf> Do it. :-(
05:26:07 <Sgeo> shachaf, LYAH is not recommendable?
05:26:20 <shachaf> I don't like LYAH much from what I've seen of it.
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05:54:34 <elliott> pikhq: exim or postfix
05:57:09 <ion> elliott: I haven’t really found it to be painful.
05:57:52 <elliott> ion: Aww, but I already gave up and asked someone else. Okay, I guess I'll try Postfix.
05:57:59 <elliott> Even if exim4 is already installed. Thebian.
05:58:24 <shachaf> postfix'em
05:58:42 <shachaf> Piles Of Stuff That something something something, extended magic
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06:21:15 <Sgeo> Is the admin interface a good reason to use Django for a project?
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06:33:34 <zzo38> I don't generally recommend book about Haskell. People learn how they want to do so.
06:35:44 <zzo38> Some book may be good for some people, perhaps.
06:37:54 <Sgeo> I may have accidentally caused my gf to be enamored with Django.
06:50:09 <graue> how'd you do that?
07:04:07 <Sgeo> By introducing it to her. I think it's the first high-level web framework she's seen
07:04:27 <quintopia> quick, introduce another!
07:04:38 <quintopia> if it doesn't work, try something else!
07:04:44 <quintopia> if that doesn't work, dump her!
07:05:15 <graue> the first one i saw was flask
07:05:21 <graue> which i think is pretty okay
07:07:20 * Sgeo linked her to Weblocks
07:15:00 * Sgeo is again reminded of the attractiveness of CLOS
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08:23:41 <kmc> shachaf: c.c
08:23:55 <kmc> in helsinki the trams are meter gauge!
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08:30:25 <kmc> jerkcity is 14 years old today
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08:37:03 <atriq> The weather's miserable
08:37:20 <kmc> where?
08:37:24 <atriq> Hexham
08:37:32 <kmc> is it miserable by hexham standards
08:37:43 <atriq> It's miserable by this week's standards
08:38:55 <kmc> why do you live in hexham?
08:39:06 <atriq> I dunno, it wasn't my decision
08:39:19 <atriq> I've lived here most of my life
08:39:28 <atriq> It's got a good school, I guess?
08:39:34 <olsner> it does?
08:39:41 <atriq> I dunno
08:39:42 <atriq> Maybe
08:39:46 <kmc> interesting
08:39:50 <kmc> hexham is really far from london :(
08:39:54 <kmc> have you been to hadrian's wall?
08:39:57 <atriq> Yes
08:40:00 <atriq> Many times
08:40:05 <kmc> is it interesting to look at
08:40:12 <atriq> Bits of it are
08:40:16 <itidus21> http://photo.goodreads.com/books/1179634272l/939194.jpg http://images.amazon.com/images/P/0764507761.01.LZZZZZZZ.gif http://photo.goodreads.com/books/1173497548l/298100.jpg
08:40:17 <atriq> I recommend Vindolanda
08:40:29 <kmc> i guess it is not so far from edinburgh
08:40:37 <kmc> cool
08:40:44 <itidus21> http://nostarch.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/product_full/lyah.png
08:40:56 <itidus21> something... in this pattern is askew
08:41:02 <kmc> haha
08:41:06 <kmc> for dummies books are shit
08:41:09 <kmc> just so you know
08:41:21 <kmc> not sure what point you're trying to make here
08:41:24 <kmc> but i rarely am
08:41:52 <olsner> itidus21: it's not in comic sans
08:42:08 <kmc> atriq: what about newcastle, is that a nice place
08:42:23 <kmc> have you been on the tyne and wear metro
08:42:24 <atriq> kmc, it's the city where I was born
08:42:30 <atriq> Yes
08:42:34 <itidus21> humm
08:43:49 <kmc> hm, why is the T&W Metro considered to be "light rail"?
08:44:17 <kmc> does it have stations at grade with level crossings?
08:44:23 <olsner> maybe the rails are made of aluminum or something?
08:45:15 <kmc> -_-
08:45:26 <atriq> kmc, it's a light railway as opposed to a normal railway
08:45:37 <atriq> It's like a subway or underground, but overground
08:45:41 <kmc> yeah it has a number of level crossings
08:45:43 <kmc> http://www.freefoto.com/images/23/33/23_33_2---Kenton-Bank-Foot--Tyne-and-Wear-Metro_web.jpg
08:45:45 <atriq> Small stations, frequent trains
08:46:11 <kmc> atriq: just being above ground in sections doesn't make it "light rail" though
08:46:28 <Sgeo> Ok, Lisp pathnames aren't as scary as I thought
08:46:29 <atriq> It's kind of like the London Overground?
08:46:33 <Sgeo> kmc, I think you should look at Tcl.
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08:47:03 <atriq> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light_railway#United_Kingdom
08:47:06 <kmc> atriq: large parts of the underground and the NYC subway and almost every subway system run overground
08:47:24 <elliott> tcl is boring if you already know lisp
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08:47:31 <kmc> ah, i didn't know it has a legal definition in UK :)
08:47:48 <kmc> London Overground is just the brand for those London-area National Rail services which are operated by TfL
08:48:07 <Sgeo> I think the lack of special forms in Tcl is interesting
08:48:36 <kmc> it runs mostly on mainline railway lines, using mainline-like trains
08:48:37 <elliott> fine, *if you already know kernel
08:48:54 <elliott> tcl's main failing is that the string is a terrible data structure
08:49:09 <fizzie> "Vindolandia" (a misreading) sounds like a theme park.
08:49:24 <atriq> fizzie, it pretty much is, except without rides
08:49:40 <atriq> It's where they discovered that Romans wore underwear
08:49:55 <kmc> elliott: anything is boring if you already know kernel
08:49:58 <kmc> it's like heroin :(
08:51:07 <atriq> Without rides and with active archaeology sites
08:51:50 <kmc> actually the T&W Metro is not under the Light Railways Act 1896 anyway
08:52:07 <atriq> Hmm
08:52:14 <atriq> How odd
08:52:24 <kmc> i think it's "light rail" under the US definition
08:52:38 <kmc> which is not a precise definition
08:53:03 <kmc> but involves some combination of: small/narrow cars, short trains, running partially in the street or at least crossing lots of streets
08:54:08 <kmc> whereas heavy rail rapid transit has a dedicated right of way
08:54:27 <kmc> tunnels, elevated viaducts, embankments, fenced-off areas at grade
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08:54:38 <Sgeo> I think all the file I/O stuff scared me from CL and into Tcl
08:54:42 <Sgeo> Or at least it helped
08:54:46 <shachaf> kmc: I don't understand "c.c". :-(
08:54:51 <kmc> or quite often, a mixture of these on a single line
08:54:52 <atriq> kmc, I don't know what it is
08:54:59 <kmc> but light rail will have some grade-separated segments too
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08:55:08 <kmc> shachaf: it's, like, eyes looking away
08:55:35 <atriq> The bit I'm on most is mostly underground, but there's a bit that's raised above the road on a viaduct
08:55:44 <atriq> Trains every 5 minutes
08:55:57 <shachaf> Are they looking toward the right side of my screen or the left side?
08:56:03 <kmc> shachaf: i don't know!
08:56:12 <atriq> I'd say left
08:56:13 <kmc> probably the right
08:56:16 <kmc> hm
08:56:18 <shachaf> What are they looking away *from*?
08:56:28 <shachaf> Is it "being suspicious"?
08:56:34 <kmc> no it's like saying "um..."
08:56:44 <kmc> i can't quite put my finger on it though
08:56:47 <kmc> it's from #cslounge
08:56:51 <shachaf> I know.
08:57:10 <fizzie> kmc: Pictures involving barely-visible trams are a common "trick question" kind of thing in the theory part of the driver's license exam here; trams have a priority right-of-way status even when a car approaching from the same direction wouldn't.
08:57:33 <kmc> huh, interesting
08:57:38 <elliott> <kmc> hexham is really far from london :(
08:57:43 <elliott> good observation imo
08:57:58 <shachaf> You know what's farther from London?
08:58:22 <elliott> kmc: are you visiting hexham
08:58:39 <shachaf> On the worldly scale of distance from London, Hexham is pretty near, really.
08:58:49 <shachaf> If I lived in Hexham I would probablyg o visit London once in a while.
08:58:53 <shachaf> Or at least once.
08:58:57 * shachaf has, in fact, been to London.
08:59:31 <kmc> elliott: no
09:00:02 <kmc> i'm flying to boston this afternoon
09:00:05 <kmc> and not to boston, uk
09:00:09 <kmc> which is kinda near hexham
09:00:11 <elliott> kmc: that's enough time to get to hexham
09:00:16 <kmc> but not really
09:00:17 <atriq> Boston's nowhere near Hexham
09:00:21 <atriq> It's in... Lincolnshire?
09:00:24 <kmc> it's closer to hexham than london is
09:00:28 <elliott> kmc: you should do it and meet atriq
09:00:31 <kmc> meh
09:00:45 <kmc> already have these shiny plane tickets
09:00:49 <kmc> and i'm in dublin
09:01:01 <kmc> which is also far from hexham
09:01:19 <shachaf> elliott: You should bring atriq to CA so I can meet him!
09:01:24 <elliott> no
09:01:28 <atriq> Canada!?
09:02:41 <elliott> yes
09:02:53 <atriq> I'd love to go to Canada!
09:04:04 <kmc> do it!
09:04:14 <kmc> canada gotta go to canada
09:04:54 <atriq> Now you're assuming I have sufficient money to go to Canada.
09:05:28 <kmc> hitchhike
09:05:34 <atriq> And time.
09:05:50 <fizzie> "Come to Canada, we've got lions", as the song goes.
09:05:52 <shachaf> kmc: Do you have a US "passport card"?
09:06:24 <fizzie> Which reminds me, I should look into doing that ESTA thing soonishly.
09:06:38 <kmc> shachaf: nope
09:06:46 <kmc> and my passport is getting terribly worn out
09:06:55 <kmc> cause i carry it around too much
09:07:16 <shachaf> Well, a "passport card" is only good for .ca and .mx and some other places.
09:13:05 <kmc> i didn't know it was even good for .mx
09:13:15 <kmc> a passport is also only good for some places
09:13:39 <kmc> not for .ir :(
09:15:05 <shachaf> .ir is an interesting place.
09:15:12 <shachaf> I think it's multiply-illegal for me to go there.
09:17:14 <kmc> can't you go on your .fi passport
09:17:20 <kmc> or will you be arrested for being an israeli spy anyway
09:17:27 <kmc> or will israel be mad
09:17:28 <kmc> or what
09:17:47 <shachaf> My .fi passport says I was born in Jerusalem.
09:17:57 <shachaf> And the name "Ben-Kiki" is probably a little suspicious.
09:17:58 <kmc> what if it said you were born in al-Quds
09:18:04 <kmc> yeah, there is that
09:18:05 <shachaf> My grandmother once almost flew to .ir.
09:18:26 <shachaf> She got on the wrong flight and they had to get her off the plane when it was about to take off.
09:18:32 <kmc> oh dear
09:19:12 <kmc> yeah when we took the bus from poland to lithuania we were not 100% sure that it did not go through belarus
09:19:30 <kmc> in which event we would have been kicked off the bus in some border town
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09:21:22 <kmc> shachaf: did I already tell you that the currency in Bosnia i Hercegovina is the Deutschmark?
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09:21:39 <shachaf> I think you mentioned it.
09:24:48 * atriq is a pretty good name
09:25:31 * shachaf is not a name at all!
09:25:51 <atriq> By which I mean, "atriq" is a pretty good name
09:26:01 <atriq> It's actually pronouncable
09:26:24 <atriq> It's also a real name...
09:27:32 <atriq> 4 results on the first google page for "Ngevd" are IRC logs, and one's the quotes file
09:27:37 <atriq> `quote 648
09:27:47 <monqy> lots of things are real names
09:27:48 <HackEgo> 648) <oerjan> elliott: it occurs to me that `? welcome is atypical: its information is actually true.
09:28:17 <ion> `? welcome
09:28:21 <HackEgo> Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
09:28:34 <atriq> Ngevd isn't aname
09:28:40 <atriq> It's not a name, either
09:29:05 <kmc> shachaf is not a name but "shachaf" is
09:32:30 <shachaf> Quotation marks are way overloaded in English.
09:32:34 <shachaf> It's half-annoying.
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09:34:13 <kmc> man now i want to go to the Great Dorset Steam Fair
09:35:09 <kmc> oh, i guess Hexham is only 4 hours from London
09:35:11 <kmc> that's not too bad
09:35:40 <atriq> 4 hours if there's no traffic and you're speeding
09:35:55 <kmc> i meant by train
09:36:01 <atriq> Oh, okay
09:36:57 <kmc> boston to new york is also 4 hours on the train
09:37:01 <kmc> and i consider them pretty close
09:37:25 <kmc> hexham to london is considerably further, but the trains in the uk are better
09:37:32 <atriq> Hah
09:37:36 <atriq> Prices are probably worser
09:37:39 <kmc> also i keep forgetting how small the uk is overall
09:37:42 <atriq> *-r
09:37:53 <atriq> We're not small, just smaller than big places
09:38:29 <atriq> And we're culturally big, which makes the UK seem big? I dunno
09:38:52 <kmc> yeah it's £59 versus $69
09:39:15 <kmc> for a trip 1 week from now
09:39:28 <atriq> How are you getting that price?
09:39:38 <atriq> I always seem to be somewhere in the 200's
09:39:39 <kmc> nationalrail.co.uk
09:39:48 <atriq> London to Hexham or Hexham to London?
09:39:54 <kmc> hexham to london
09:40:16 <atriq> Hmm
09:40:17 <kmc> it gives a variety of options but the cheapest one is £59
09:40:23 <atriq> Which route?
09:40:27 <kmc> 11:22 from Hexham to Newcastle
09:40:29 <atriq> Via Newcastle
09:40:33 <kmc> 12:25 to Kings Cross
09:40:48 <kmc> that's for 1 week from today
09:40:57 <atriq> The 11:22's a quick train, only stops at Prudhoe and the MetroCentre
09:41:05 <atriq> between Hexham and Newcastle
09:41:11 <kmc> cool
09:41:45 <shachaf> Newcastle upon Thyme.
09:41:45 <kmc> and yeah the UK is big culturally
09:41:55 <kmc> at least, the UK has an outsize influence on anglophone culture
09:42:01 <kmc> a large fraction of the bands i listen to are from the uk
09:42:05 <shachaf> I heard London is big culturally.
09:42:18 <shachaf> By culturally I mean has a lot of accents.
09:42:24 <shachaf> By hear I mean read in that play.
09:42:53 <kmc> also lexande says that premier league football on BBC shortwave radio broadcasts is enormously popular in anglophone africa
09:43:07 <atriq> Around here, it used to be the case that someone with training could tell what village you were from by your accent
09:43:31 <kmc> and that this alone does as much good as the Organisation internationale de la Francophonie or other such deliberate organziations
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09:46:24 <kmc> also you can go from boston to new york for $15 with no advance booking
09:46:27 <kmc> on a sketchy chinatown bus
09:46:36 <kmc> doubt you can go from hexham to london on the same arrangement
09:47:05 <atriq> Newcastle has a pretty major chinatown
09:47:06 <atriq> Hmm
09:47:17 <kmc> interesting
09:47:19 <atriq> You know, I used to think Chinatown was the capital of China
09:47:23 <kmc> are chinatown buses a thing in the uk?
09:47:26 <kmc> -_-
09:47:31 <kmc> that would make too much sense
09:47:35 <atriq> I don't think there are
09:47:42 <atriq> Like Mexico City et al.
09:47:44 <shachaf> Are they a thing in the US?
09:47:52 <shachaf> Other than NYC and maybe Boston.
09:47:58 <kmc> shachaf: yes
09:48:04 <kmc> San Francisco has a big one
09:48:11 <kmc> NYC has two or three actually
09:48:19 * shachaf has never taken one.
09:48:28 <shachaf> At one point when I looked they were more expensive than the other ones.
09:48:33 <kmc> oh, buses, not chinatowns
09:48:45 <kmc> but yes, chinatown buses are a thing on the east cosat generally
09:49:00 <kmc> you can go Boston → NYC → Philly → Baltimore → DC at least
09:49:18 <kmc> there might be something SF - LA too
09:49:30 <kmc> and there is analogous local transport
09:49:35 <shachaf> Maybe I should go south sometime.
09:49:46 <kmc> vans that take you from Manhattan's Chinatown to the one in Flushing, Queens
09:50:05 <kmc> if you see a van in new york city labeled only in some chinese with a ↔ in it
09:50:11 <kmc> then it probably goes between these two places
09:50:16 <kmc> shachaf: to LA?
09:50:35 <elliott> atriq: btw that's a misuse of et al i think
09:50:40 <shachaf> kmc: Or that general area.
09:50:46 <shachaf> Is it a terrible place?
09:50:56 <shachaf> I haven't been south of ~Santa Cruz since I moved to CA.
09:50:58 <atriq> elliott, Mexico City and the others. Perfectly good.
09:51:27 <kmc> i took Megabus from LA to SF
09:51:27 <atriq> Like, Panama City and Durham City
09:51:43 <kmc> before they stopped running on the west coast
09:51:54 <kmc> gotta go to boston, ttyl all
09:51:56 <shachaf> They stopped running on the west coast?
09:52:00 <kmc> yes
09:52:05 <shachaf> ttyalll
09:52:09 <elliott> atriq: englihs isn't latin
09:52:15 <elliott> *english
09:52:19 <kmc> here is the megabus route map: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:MegabusNorthAmericaMap.svg
09:52:23 <elliott> aiui in English "et al" is only used for lists of people
09:52:31 <elliott> I may be wrong thoug
09:52:32 <elliott> *though
09:52:36 <shachaf> elliott: THEN HOW COME I ENCODE MY ENGLISH TEXT USING "Latin"?!
09:52:43 <kmc> evaporating now, ttyl
09:52:48 <shachaf> Actually I use "ANSI".
09:52:55 <shachaf> goodbyeegan
09:53:10 <shachaf> Actually I use Unicode, or sometimes Unicode Big Endian.
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10:45:20 <graue> I, too, like to encode my text using Big Indians
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11:05:39 <shachaf> graue: Are you the SCARY PERSON?
11:05:50 <shachaf> Or was that Alan Dipert?
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11:32:07 <graue> SILLY PERSON is more like it
11:34:24 <shachaf> SILLARY PERSON
11:34:27 <shachaf> ANCILLARY PERSON
11:34:57 <elliott> auxiliary person
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12:23:22 <atriq> :t flip local
12:23:23 <lambdabot> forall r (m :: * -> *) a. (MonadReader r m) => m a -> (r -> r) -> m a
12:23:39 <atriq> :t (>>=)
12:23:40 <lambdabot> forall (m :: * -> *) a b. (Monad m) => m a -> (a -> m b) -> m b
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12:23:53 <atriq> :t flip local `asTypeOf` (>>=)
12:23:54 <lambdabot> Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: b = m b
12:23:54 <lambdabot> Expected type: m (m b)
12:23:54 <lambdabot> Inferred type: m b
12:24:07 <atriq> Never managed that one before
12:24:15 <atriq> Actually
12:24:22 <atriq> :t let f = join f in f
12:24:23 <lambdabot> Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: a = m a
12:24:23 <lambdabot> Expected type: m (m a)
12:24:23 <lambdabot> Inferred type: m a
12:24:26 <atriq> :t let f = join f in ()
12:24:27 <lambdabot> Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: a = m a
12:24:27 <lambdabot> Expected type: m (m a)
12:24:27 <lambdabot> Inferred type: m a
12:25:55 <atriq> :t Identity
12:25:57 <lambdabot> forall a. a -> Identity a
12:26:00 <atriq> :t fix Identity
12:26:02 <lambdabot> Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: a = Identity a
12:26:02 <lambdabot> Expected type: a
12:26:02 <lambdabot> Inferred type: Identity a
12:26:07 <atriq> Having fun hear
12:26:09 <atriq> *here
12:26:31 <atriq> Infinite types would be an extension to Haskell that would be useful to me and only me
12:27:23 <atriq> > ap id id
12:27:24 <lambdabot> Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: a = a -> b
12:27:33 <atriq> Even if it just allowed that type?
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12:34:08 <kmc> Dublin airport has this weird arrangement
12:34:22 <kmc> where for certain flights to the USA, you go through US customs and immigration within DUB
12:34:44 <kmc> and then you go through another bag scanner machine because apparently the one you just went through for general airport security isn't good enough
12:35:04 <kmc> and then you're in a little concourse at DUB that's effectively part of the US domestic air-side security/immigration zone
12:35:06 <shachaf> Do you have to take off your shoes for the second one?
12:35:13 <kmc> and you can land at a US domestic terminal
12:35:15 <kmc> shachaf: yes
12:35:30 <shachaf> I think that's not that unusual for major airports that fly to the US.
12:35:41 <kmc> which other ones have it?
12:35:59 <kmc> ah http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_border_preclearance
12:36:04 <shachaf> Not sure.
12:36:22 <shachaf> Ah, there you go.
12:36:35 <shachaf> Maybe it isn't that common.
12:37:23 <shachaf> kmc: Once, we flew to TLV (I think?) a Canadian airport.
12:37:36 <shachaf> We drove north from WA to Vancouver.
12:37:55 <shachaf> Then we had to go through US customs/security/something because the flight was connecting through a US airport.
12:38:04 <shachaf> It was pretty silly.
12:38:42 <kmc> fun
12:38:50 <kmc> transit visas and transit immigration is in general a thing
12:39:17 <kmc> "However, the US and other countries who engage in the practice have been accused of being motivated also by the desire to prevent the arrival of asylum seekers, who are protected under the 1951 Refugee Convention's non-refoulement provisions once they arrive at their destination."
12:39:22 <kmc> classy
12:40:47 <kmc> i wonder which "other countries" those are
12:42:16 <kmc> customs and immigration rules are weird
12:42:23 <kmc> they aren't transitively closed
12:43:09 <kmc> for example, if you arrive from the US to the UK you have to fill out a big form about where you've been and what you're bringing
12:43:22 <kmc> but if you land in the Republic of Ireland there's no such form
12:43:31 <kmc> and then you can travel to the UK with no further immigration controls
12:44:50 <kmc> lexande says that you might be legally required to go to a police station in the UK and fill out the form
12:49:46 <kmc> on to the plane, bbl
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15:56:43 <nortti> http://aiju.de/b/emacs</flamebait>
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16:24:27 <atriq> > sum$map((1/).product.enumFromTo 1)[1..19]
16:24:30 <lambdabot> 1.7182818284590455
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16:29:41 * pikhq_ mutters
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16:39:35 <atriq> pikhq_, sorry!
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16:40:31 <AnotherTest> Hello
16:41:45 <quintopia> ohai
16:42:23 <nortti> moi
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17:08:03 <boily> bonjour?
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18:04:02 <boily> there, for you to freely abuse, my irc bot: cuttlefish.
18:04:09 <boily> command prefix is ~.
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18:12:42 <Slereah> ~kill all humans
18:12:42 <cuttlefish> --- Possible commands: dice, duck, echo, eval, fortune, metar, ping, yi
18:12:51 <Slereah> ~eval
18:12:54 <cuttlefish> Error (1): not an expression: `'
18:13:00 <Slereah> What language is it
18:13:04 <itidus21> ~yi
18:13:05 <cuttlefish> Your divination: "Holding" to "Great Possessing"
18:19:53 -!- atriq has joined.
18:22:59 <boily> ~eval "Fyrernu: cebonoyl Unfxryy" >>= \x -> let c = toLower x in return $ if c >= 'a' && c <= 'm' then chr (ord x + 13) else if c >= 'n' && c <= 'z' then chr (ord x - 13) else x
18:23:00 <cuttlefish> "Slereah: probably Haskell"
18:24:36 <atriq> Is that new?
18:25:29 <boily> my git repo says I began working on it on july 12, then adding some intermittent modifications.
18:25:48 <atriq> Is it new to the channel?
18:25:51 <atriq> ~help
18:25:52 <cuttlefish> --- Possible commands: dice, duck, echo, eval, fortune, metar, ping, yi
18:26:04 <boily> yeah, first public exposure.
18:26:14 <atriq> ~eval "test fungot test"
18:26:14 <cuttlefish> "test fungot test"
18:26:23 <atriq> ^botlist
18:26:33 <boily> my bot was previously tortured on our company's internal channel.
18:27:16 <boily> (our support team had great moments trying to crash my bot.)
18:29:42 <atriq> :)
18:29:47 <atriq> I wish I had a support team
18:30:03 <atriq> I wish there was anything that'd let me actually use a support team
18:30:06 <atriq> I dunno
18:30:50 <boily> I work for a FOSS company here in montreal.
18:31:10 <atriq> Oh, sweet
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18:55:06 <atriq> ...how does a FOSS company make money?
18:56:47 <nortti> cd /usr/include; for i in *; do echo -n "checking for $i... "; sleep 0.2; echo "yes"; done
18:57:03 <nortti> autoconf replacement
18:58:31 <atriq> And that's how FOSSs make money
18:59:20 <nortti> :P
19:04:57 <boily> atriq: support contracts, web and embedded development, hosting, enterprise relations, mysterious stuff... all this contributes to us making some money.
19:05:31 <atriq> Hmm
19:13:21 <atriq> Is "mysterious stuff" a euphemism for mob contracts or something, or do you actually not know?
19:14:27 <atriq> Now I'm imagining boily as a hitman
19:14:33 <atriq> In a boiler suit
19:16:51 <boily> atriq: mysterious stuff meaning we sometimes have to sign astringent NDA's for sensitive contracts.
19:17:46 <atriq> Oh, okay
19:17:54 -!- ogrom has quit (Quit: Left).
19:20:46 <atriq> :t runIdentity
19:20:47 <lambdabot> forall a. Identity a -> a
19:21:32 <atriq> > do {x <- Identity 10; return (x + 1); return (x *7)}
19:21:33 <lambdabot> No instance for (GHC.Show.Show (Data.Functor.Identity.Identity a))
19:21:33 <lambdabot> arisi...
19:21:39 <atriq> > runIdentity $ do {x <- Identity 10; return (x + 1); return (x *7)}
19:21:40 <lambdabot> 70
19:22:39 <jlaire> this is not the return you are looking for
19:23:01 <jlaire> compare with gnu C: ({ int x = 10; x + 1; x * 7; })
19:23:27 <atriq> jlaire, you do realise I know exactly what I'm doing, and I'm just fiddling?
19:23:37 <jlaire> of course
19:23:52 <atriq> (barely know C at all...)
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19:35:29 <boily> generic haskell question: is Traversable useful, and why? I have never seen it in the wild.
19:37:20 <atriq> ~eval "test fungot test"
19:37:21 <cuttlefish> "test fungot test"
19:37:21 <fungot> atriq: you'd have to learn
19:37:23 <fungot> cuttlefish: well, the zilliards shouldn't really be using assignment, there's better ways of organizing fnord, adaptive presentation, etc. i believe the internet works on cr/ lf/ crlf line-terminator stupidity.
19:37:39 <atriq> ~help
19:37:39 <cuttlefish> --- Possible commands: dice, duck, echo, eval, fortune, metar, ping, yi
19:37:44 <atriq> ~help echo
19:37:44 <cuttlefish> --- Possible commands: dice, duck, echo, eval, fortune, metar, ping, yi
19:37:52 <atriq> ~echo fungot test
19:37:52 <cuttlefish> fungot test
19:37:53 <fungot> atriq: how does this compare with something like gambit or chicken wouldn't be fast enough
19:37:53 <fungot> cuttlefish: i'm interested in applying scheme to distributed programming, consider kali. is your professor using ms word to write java to extend my text editor of choice and all bets are off
19:38:05 <atriq> ~echo ^echo ~echo ^echo
19:38:05 <cuttlefish> ^echo ~echo ^echo
19:38:05 <fungot> ~echo ^echo ~echo ^echo
19:38:05 <cuttlefish> ^echo ~echo ^echo
19:38:06 <fungot> ~echo ^echo ~echo ^echo
19:38:06 <cuttlefish> ^echo ~echo ^echo
19:38:06 <fungot> ~echo ^echo ~echo ^echo
19:38:07 <cuttlefish> ^echo ~echo ^echo
19:38:07 <fungot> ~echo ^echo ~echo ^echo
19:38:07 <cuttlefish> ^echo ~echo ^echo
19:38:08 <fungot> ~echo ^echo ~echo ^echo
19:38:08 <cuttlefish> ^echo ~echo ^echo
19:38:08 <fungot> ~echo ^echo ~echo ^echo
19:38:08 <cuttlefish> ^echo ~echo ^echo
19:38:09 <fungot> ~echo ^echo ~echo ^echo
19:38:09 <cuttlefish> ^echo ~echo ^echo
19:38:09 <atriq> Woops
19:38:09 <fungot> ~echo ^echo ~echo ^echo
19:38:10 <cuttlefish> ^echo ~echo ^echo
19:38:10 <fungot> ~echo ^echo ~echo ^echo
19:38:10 <cuttlefish> ^echo ~echo ^echo
19:38:11 <fungot> ~echo ^echo ~echo ^echo
19:38:11 <cuttlefish> ^echo ~echo ^echo
19:38:11 <fungot> ~echo ^echo ~echo ^echo
19:38:11 <cuttlefish> ^echo ~echo ^echo
19:38:12 <fungot> ~echo ^echo ~echo ^echo
19:38:12 <cuttlefish> ^echo ~echo ^echo
19:38:12 <fungot> ~echo ^echo ~echo ^echo
19:38:13 <cuttlefish> ^echo ~echo ^echo
19:38:13 <fungot> ~echo ^echo ~echo ^echo
19:38:13 <cuttlefish> ^echo ~echo ^echo
19:38:13 <atriq> Sorry
19:38:14 <fungot> ~echo ^echo ~echo ^echo
19:38:14 <cuttlefish> ^echo ~echo ^echo
19:38:14 <fungot> ~echo ^echo ~echo ^echo
19:38:14 <cuttlefish> ^echo ~echo ^echo
19:38:15 <fungot> ~echo ^echo ~echo ^echo
19:38:15 <cuttlefish> ^echo ~echo ^echo
19:38:16 <fungot> ~echo ^echo ~echo ^echo
19:38:16 <cuttlefish> ^echo ~echo ^echo
19:38:16 <fungot> ~echo ^echo ~echo ^echo
19:38:16 <cuttlefish> ^echo ~echo ^echo
19:38:17 <fungot> ~echo ^echo ~echo ^echo
19:38:17 <cuttlefish> ^echo ~echo ^echo
19:38:17 <atriq> Umm,...
19:38:18 <fungot> ~echo ^echo ~echo ^echo
19:38:18 <cuttlefish> ^echo ~echo ^echo
19:38:18 <fungot> ~echo ^echo ~echo ^echo
19:38:18 <cuttlefish> ^echo ~echo ^echo
19:38:24 <nortti> come on
19:38:39 <Phantom_Hoover> Uh, ais523, oerjan, fizzie?
19:38:56 <Phantom_Hoover> Wait, did it stop or is that the flood protection kicking in.
19:39:01 <oerjan> it would appear to have stopped?
19:39:02 <atriq> I think the latter
19:39:19 <atriq> fungot are you alive
19:39:20 <fungot> atriq: it brought lostkng.b down to 288 kilobytes.
19:39:29 <atriq> ~echo test
19:39:30 <cuttlefish> test
19:39:32 <atriq> Hmm
19:39:50 <atriq> Okay, fizzie, boily, make this not happen
19:40:10 <Phantom_Hoover> ^ignore cuttlefish
19:40:19 <atriq> ~echo fungot
19:40:19 <cuttlefish> fungot
19:40:20 <fungot> atriq: i've heard bubble sort a lot more material on the channel
19:40:20 <fungot> cuttlefish: never need to touch windows :) negative array indexes are always fun in c yesterday. a fun language
19:40:30 <Phantom_Hoover> ^ignore
19:40:35 <atriq> ^help
19:40:35 <fungot> ^<lang> <code>; ^def <command> <lang> <code>; ^show [command]; lang=bf/ul, code=text/str:N; ^str 0-9 get/set/add [text]; ^style [style]; ^bool
19:40:40 <oerjan> ^ignore only obeys fizzie
19:40:54 <Phantom_Hoover> I thought it listed for anyone.
19:41:06 <atriq> ^bool
19:41:06 <fungot> No.
19:41:11 <atriq> ^bool
19:41:11 <fungot> No.
19:41:35 <oerjan> ^bool
19:41:36 <fungot> No.
19:41:49 <atriq> Mama mia let me go
19:42:00 <atriq> Beelzebub has the devil put aside for me
19:42:21 <pikhq_> s/the/a/
19:42:36 <atriq> Artistic license
19:45:06 <atriq> Wow, I actually managed to make a botloop?
19:45:32 <atriq> Which only works due to an oddity in fungot's echo?
19:45:33 <fungot> atriq: not the char 0, second char 1 etc. do you have any
19:45:37 <atriq> ^style
19:45:37 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube
19:45:43 <atriq> ^style wp
19:45:44 <fungot> Selected style: wp (1/256th of all Wikipedia "Talk:" namespace pages)
19:45:53 <atriq> fungot, are you on fire?
19:45:54 <fungot> atriq: i notice that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page about robert levinson, who was the father of existentialism, which is why i have put it here and not balkan fnord? should we keep, and which is neutral.
19:46:23 <atriq> "are you on fire" "whichever's useful"
19:47:22 <fizzie> Huh.
19:47:40 <fizzie> ^ignore ^(EgoBot|HackEgo|toBogE|Sparkbot|optbot|lambdabot|oonbotti|cuttlefish)!
19:47:41 <fungot> OK.
19:47:56 <fizzie> I'll see if I have some time to do a Gregor on it some day.
19:48:10 <atriq> (do a Gregor?)
19:48:34 <fizzie> atriq: Make it add a zero-width space in front of all starts-with-nonalphabetic output.
19:48:47 <atriq> Oh, cool
19:48:49 <fizzie> (It's the Standard(TM) Clever(R) way of avoiding botloops.)
19:49:07 <atriq> Unless there's a clone of Fungot
19:49:20 <atriq> Who picks up midline commands?
19:49:27 <atriq> And is poorly administered
19:49:30 <Phantom_Hoover> <atriq> Which only works due to an oddity in fungot's echo?
19:49:32 <fungot> Phantom_Hoover: that misses the point. neither you nor any of your esteemed fnord would ever check an even incorrect historical reference to start your fnord what sort of changes can be considered a keylogger. the only source supporting the rumors about nick adams's homosexual leanings. user:onefortyoneonefortyone 21:41, 26 february 2007 ( utc)
19:49:34 <Phantom_Hoover> A literism, rather.
19:49:45 <oerjan> @wn literism
19:49:46 <lambdabot> No match for "literism".
19:50:09 <atriq> `? Phantom_Hoover
19:50:10 <Phantom_Hoover> Literalism, dammit.
19:50:12 <HackEgo> Phantom_Hoover is a true Scotsman and hatheist.
19:50:25 <Phantom_Hoover> atriq, make sure you try it with different numbers of _!
19:50:34 <atriq> `? Phantom__Hoover
19:50:37 <HackEgo> Phantom__Hoover ? ¯\(°_o)/¯
19:50:43 <atriq> `? Phantom___Hoover
19:50:46 <HackEgo> Phantom___Hoover ? ¯\(°_o)/¯
19:50:51 <atriq> `? Phantom____Hoover
19:50:54 <HackEgo> Phantom____Hoover ? ¯\(°_o)/¯
19:50:57 <atriq> `? PhantomHoover
19:51:01 <HackEgo> PhantomHoover ? ¯\(°_o)/¯
19:51:02 <oerjan> `? Phantom__Hoover
19:51:06 <HackEgo> Phantom__Hoover can't decide what an appropriate number of underscores is.
19:51:08 <atriq> `ls wisdom
19:51:11 <HackEgo> ​? \ ais523 \ atriq \ augur \ banach-tarski \ boily \ c \ cakeprophet \ category \ coffee \ comonad \ coppro \ egobot \ elliott \ endofunctor \ esoteric \ europe \ everyone \ finland \ finns \ fizzie \ flower \ friendship \ functor \ fungot \ glogbot \ gregor \ hackego \ haskell \ hexham \ ievan \ intercal \ internationale \ itidus20 \ itidus21 \ kallisti \ lens \ lifthrasiir \ mad \ misspellings of croissant \ monad
19:51:24 <Phantom_Hoover> `? friendship
19:51:27 <HackEgo> friendship wisdom
19:51:34 <oerjan> hint: HackEgo is space at end of line sensitive
19:51:36 <Phantom_Hoover> `? internationale
19:51:40 <HackEgo> You have been reported to the House Un-American Activities Committee
19:51:41 <atriq> Aaargh
19:51:46 <Phantom_Hoover> `? hexham
19:51:49 <HackEgo> Hexham is a European town. There are nine people in Hexham, and at least two of them are in this channel. Taneb looks after the ham.
19:52:21 <atriq> `? hackego
19:52:24 <HackEgo> HackEgo, also known as HackBot, is a bot that runs arbitrary commands on Unix. See `help for info on using it. You should totally try to hax0r it! Make sure you imagine it's running as root with no sandboxing.
19:52:33 <atriq> `? lens
19:52:36 <HackEgo> A lens is a monoidal natural transformation between higher-order coalgebra functors
19:52:45 <atriq> `? intercal
19:52:48 <HackEgo> INTERCAL has excellent features for modular program for the enterprise market.
19:52:53 <atriq> `? c
19:52:56 <HackEgo> C is the language of��V�>WIד�.��Segmentation fault
19:53:52 <nortti> :D
19:54:00 <atriq> `? python
19:54:03 <HackEgo> python? ¯\(°_o)/¯
19:54:43 <atriq> `? haskell
19:54:46 <HackEgo> Unbound implicit parameter (?haskell::Wisdom) \ arising from a use of implicit parameter `?haskell'
19:54:55 <atriq> `? flower
19:54:58 <HackEgo> flower. what IS a flower?
19:55:04 <atriq> `? europe
19:55:04 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
19:55:07 <HackEgo> Europe is the national anthem of the Republic of Kosovo.
19:55:15 <atriq> `? comonad
19:55:18 <HackEgo> Comonads are just monads in the dual category.
19:56:48 <atriq> `? elliott
19:56:51 <HackEgo> elliott wrote this learn DB, and wrote or improved many of the other commands in this bot. He probably has done other things?
19:57:01 <atriq> `? Ngevd
19:57:05 <HackEgo> ​ۅ.n.o.BOL...&)F\,.кȔ`{=7SpIgqczxf7.4d.
19:57:07 <atriq> `? Ngevd
19:57:10 <HackEgo> ​46/3.Z...*5(C..Bm":4E՜..ep}0%..a.Ŏ.ꐺp@..¨h<1dZne.1.o5\bt..wo.[Ə\0ё.QꫫK3y \ pEH \ *{ \ $@y.\lի*.ɵ2llޟI
19:57:29 <atriq> Haha HackEgo said Bm
19:57:31 <nortti> `run ls -l `which ?`
19:57:35 <HackEgo> ​-rwxr-xr-x 1 5000 0 126 Aug 17 19:57 /hackenv/bin/? \ -rwxr-xr-x 1 5000 0 101 Aug 17 19:57 /hackenv/bin/@ \ -rwxr-xr-x 1 5000 0 42 Aug 17 19:57 /hackenv/bin/k
19:58:08 <fizzie> atriq: The Ngevdntry is creepy.
19:58:25 <atriq> fizzie, there's a reason for that
19:58:25 <nortti> `ls
19:58:28 <HackEgo> bin \ canary \ foo \ karma \ lib \ paste \ quotes \ share \ wisdom
19:58:32 <atriq> `ls canary
19:58:33 <oerjan> oh no it's a Búm
19:58:35 <HackEgo> canary
19:58:39 <atriq> `canary
19:58:41 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: canary: not found
19:58:48 <atriq> `canary/canary
19:58:50 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: /hackenv/canary/canary: Not a directory \ /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: /hackenv/canary/canary: cannot execute: Not a directory
19:58:56 <nortti> `ls -l wisdom/Ngevd
19:58:59 <HackEgo> ls: invalid option -- ' ' \ Try `ls --help' for more information.
19:59:00 <atriq> `file canary/canary
19:59:03 <HackEgo> canary/canary: ERROR: cannot open `canary/canary' (Not a directory)
19:59:05 <nortti> `run ls -l wisdom/Ngevd
19:59:08 <HackEgo> ls: cannot access wisdom/Ngevd: No such file or directory
19:59:14 <nortti> `run ls -l wisdom
19:59:17 <HackEgo> total 276 \ -rw-r--r-- 1 5000 0 12 Aug 17 19:59 ? \ -rw-r--r-- 1 5000 0 103 Aug 17 19:59 ais523 \ -rw-r--r-- 1 5000 0 59 Aug 17 19:59 atriq \ -rw-r--r-- 1 5000 0 21 Aug 17 19:59 augur \ -rw-r--r-- 1 5000 0 64 Aug 17 19:59 banach-tarski \ -rw-r--r-- 1 5000 0 67 Aug 17 19:59 boily \ -rw-r--r-- 1 5000 0 64 Aug 17 19:59 c \ -rw-r--r-- 1 5000 0 3 Aug 17 19:59 cakeprophet \ -rw-r--r-- 1 5000 0 32 Aug 17 19:59 category
19:59:19 <nortti> `run ls wisdom
19:59:22 <HackEgo> ​? \ ais523 \ atriq \ augur \ banach-tarski \ boily \ c \ cakeprophet \ category \ coffee \ comonad \ coppro \ egobot \ elliott \ endofunctor \ esoteric \ europe \ everyone \ finland \ finns \ fizzie \ flower \ friendship \ functor \ fungot \ glogbot \ gregor \ hackego \ haskell \ hexham \ ievan \ intercal \ internationale \ itidus20 \ itidus21 \ kallisti \ lens \ lifthrasiir \ mad \ misspellings of croissant \ monad
19:59:26 <atriq> I think it's a symbolic link or something
19:59:46 <atriq> `run ls -l wisdom/ngevd
19:59:49 <HackEgo> lrwxrwxrwx 1 5000 0 12 Aug 17 19:59 wisdom/ngevd -> /dev/urandom
19:59:54 <nortti> I knew it
20:00:10 <boily> that's a good one :D
20:00:13 <atriq> `? nortti
20:00:15 <HackEgo> nortti? ¯\(°_o)/¯
20:00:34 <oerjan> `? finns
20:00:38 <HackEgo> Finns are helpful, albeit grossly overpopulated (cf. 'Finland').
20:00:50 <atriq> `learn nortti boy. very nortti boy.
20:00:52 <HackEgo> I knew that.
20:01:00 <nortti> `? nortti
20:01:03 <HackEgo> nortti boy. very nortti boy.
20:01:07 <oerjan> o kay
20:01:09 <nortti> ok...
20:01:21 <jlaire> o.o
20:01:34 <atriq> `? boily
20:01:34 <nortti> oh. it is incredibly lame pun
20:01:37 <HackEgo> boily may be French or something. We are not sure about the rest.
20:01:46 <boily> ~metar EFHK
20:01:47 <cuttlefish> EFHK 171950Z VRB01KT CAVOK 15/14 Q1016 NOSIG
20:01:47 <atriq> nortti, the lamest
20:02:08 <oerjan> `learn atriq or two
20:02:08 <atriq> ~metar zanyoujane
20:02:09 <cuttlefish> --- Station not found!
20:02:11 <HackEgo> I knew that.
20:02:28 <boily> atriq: it uses ICAO airport codes.
20:02:36 <atriq> `metar NCL
20:02:38 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: metar: not found
20:02:43 <atriq> ~metar NCL
20:02:44 <cuttlefish> --- Station not found!
20:02:49 <atriq> ~metar LHR
20:02:50 <cuttlefish> --- Station not found!
20:03:14 <fizzie> atriq: ICAO, not IATA.
20:03:29 <boily> ~metar EGNT
20:03:29 <cuttlefish> EGNT 171950Z 17004KT 120V210 9999 SCT020 BKN025 19/18 Q1009
20:03:43 <fizzie> ~metar EFHK
20:03:44 <cuttlefish> EFHK 171950Z VRB01KT CAVOK 15/14 Q1016 NOSIG
20:03:57 <fizzie> Sadly, I can't really decode anything of the line.
20:04:06 <oerjan> ~metar EBCD
20:04:07 <cuttlefish> --- Station not found!
20:04:19 <atriq> ~metar EGNT
20:04:19 <cuttlefish> EGNT 171950Z 17004KT 120V210 9999 SCT020 BKN025 19/18 Q1009
20:05:15 <Phantom_Hoover> `? banach-tarski
20:05:18 <HackEgo> ​"Banach-Tarski" is an anagram of "Banach-Tarski Banach-Tarski".
20:05:22 <fizzie> Why was mine so short. :/
20:05:29 <Phantom_Hoover> Poor.
20:05:31 <boily> fizzie: it means it's not really windy, sky is clear, and it's somewhat warm and very humid.
20:05:31 <fizzie> (Uh, I mean... the airport reply thing.)
20:05:58 <fizzie> It didn't even have any 9999s. :/
20:06:22 <boily> in canada we never have any 9999, because of a weird mix between international and american formats.
20:06:27 <boily> ~metar CYUL
20:06:28 <cuttlefish> CYUL 171900Z 22013G18KT 15SM FEW030TCU BKN050 OVC080 25/19 A2967 RMK TCU1SC5AC2 SLP049
20:07:04 <atriq> I have no idea what the output means
20:07:36 <boily> those are weather observations and forecasts for pilots.
20:07:47 <boily> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/METAR
20:09:35 <fizzie> VRB01KT apparently i.e. variable direction, one knot; yeah, that's "not really windy" indeed.
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21:20:07 <Sgeo> I'm reading this post because it looks like it might be favorable to newLISP. I have already decided that the author is at least slightly clueless, yet I am still reading.
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21:23:12 <Sgeo> " Internally, newLISP passes data by reference between built-in functions and does other optimizations."
21:23:17 <Sgeo> Oh, that's alright then.
21:26:23 <Sgeo> Wait, why does the thing require [cmd][/cmd] for multiline stuff?
21:26:43 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds).
21:29:13 <Sgeo> It reminds me a bit of Tcl
21:32:47 <Sgeo> WTF at if acting like cond
21:37:20 <FreeFull> You could just use Racket or Clojure
21:44:04 <atehwa> Hmm, do we have some kind of bot policy here?
21:44:11 <atehwa> I'm about to bring one in.
21:44:42 <Sgeo> Bot policy: There is a 100% chance of someone attempting to construct a bot loop.
21:44:48 <atehwa> true
21:44:54 <atehwa> that's why I'm so eager
21:45:02 <atehwa> it's not a very commandable bot, however
21:45:10 <atehwa> oh, I have to be an op to invite :/
21:45:23 <atehwa> let's see if I can circumvent this somehow.
21:46:05 <Sgeo> Change the bot to enter a configuration-specified channel?
21:47:56 -!- psyk has joined.
21:48:15 <atehwa> Sgeo: no need :)
21:48:22 <atehwa> All it took was:
21:48:24 <atehwa> !eval (irc-write `(message join ,(string->symbol "#esoteric")))
21:49:14 <atehwa> psyk: please feel welcome here, right?
21:49:19 <psyk> atehwa: mit m haluan kaupasta?
21:49:31 <atehwa> psyk: no, bad bot, no finnish here.
21:49:33 <psyk> atehwa: :(
21:49:33 <Sgeo> atehwa, what language (yes, I can tell it's a Lisp)
21:49:42 <Sgeo> And it's not Kernel
21:49:57 <atehwa> Sgeo: quite standard scheme, guile IIRC.
21:50:37 <atehwa> Yes, guile
21:50:52 <atehwa> I just wanted some scheme that is quite ubiquitously available.
21:51:12 <atehwa> But I've ported it from one scheme to another at least two times :(
21:51:25 <Sgeo> o.O why?
21:53:10 <atehwa> differences in Schemes' character set supports, availability of implementations for different OS's, the like.
21:53:40 <atehwa> The source, by the way, is at http://sange.fi/~atehwa/psyk/ if someone is interested
21:53:57 <atehwa> psyk: please say at least something in English
21:54:06 <psyk> atehwa: not everyone of my lines is in English!
21:54:31 <atehwa> psyk: you're right, they aren't, but you're a good girl none the less.
21:54:39 <psyk> atehwa: Puhuisimmeko mieluummin suomea?
21:54:48 <atehwa> psyk: I'd rather not.
21:54:58 <psyk> atehwa: Hmm.. Might be. But you sure are a liar.
21:55:54 <atehwa> actually, ircbot.ss there is quite a good glue if someone wants to try out bots in Scheme :)
21:56:36 <atehwa> well, anyway, psyk can be kicked out if he misbehaves or is irritating for some other reason
21:57:03 <atehwa> she's really quite a good kid, but overly fond of Finnish.
22:02:21 <Sgeo> Well, #lisp objects to fexprs
22:02:39 <Sgeo> I'm not sure what I think
22:02:51 <Sgeo> They make code-walking impossible, but I'm not sure how useful code-walking is.
22:08:38 <boily> time to disappear in the great void behind the building door.
22:08:44 -!- boily has quit (Quit: Poulet!).
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22:09:22 <Sgeo> My current concern about newLISP scoping:
22:09:59 <Sgeo> If I have a variable x that I intend to use dynamically, and I have a function c that wants to look at it. Yet b calls c, and has a "local" variable x....
22:10:29 <Sgeo> Common Lisp has conventions to prevent this scenario, which due to the way let works is possible in CL. What does newLISP do?
22:12:31 <Sgeo> newLISP cons won't make dotted pairs, hmm
22:13:47 -!- nooga has joined.
22:19:02 <Sgeo> "newLISP can usually read your mind, and knows what you want to do, depending on how you use the context function."
22:19:14 * Sgeo backs away slowly
22:19:58 <shachaf> newLISP?
22:20:04 <shachaf> I guess it's at least on-topic!
22:20:19 * Sgeo laughs
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22:21:14 * Sgeo is trying not to hate it
22:22:36 <Sgeo> "To see the values of each symbol, use eval to find its value, and term to return just the symbol's name."
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