< 1345248249 242338 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1345248451 881475 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1345248724 944652 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1345251269 689456 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh hey, zzo38 posts on TheDailyWTF < 1345251720 212692 :pikhq_!~pikhq@70-56-230-158.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1345251723 947407 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-157-23.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1345252405 173640 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: nice < 1345252482 60428 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/posts on/is/ < 1345252498 533867 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.O < 1345252565 745477 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think "the daily #esoteric wtf" is a separate category, fwiw < 1345252666 291640 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :TD#EWTF would only last until we ran out of BF derivatives, thoughl < 1345252680 171845 :pikhq_!~pikhq@70-56-230-158.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would last forever. < 1345252695 869663 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :BF derivatives are too boring to make it to td#ewtf < 1345252724 828290 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, not on a daily schedule. < 1345252734 333700 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're not made that often, thankfully. < 1345252748 318070 :pikhq_!~pikhq@70-56-230-158.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: They are created at a rate of one BF derivative per unit of time. < 1345252749 590763 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is true that zzo might not speak here every day < 1345252759 815930 :pikhq_!~pikhq@70-56-230-158.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where units are arbitrary. < 1345252767 884571 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :one BF derivative per BF derivative < 1345252851 983637 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should be trivial to produce a BF meta-derivative that produces a new BF derivative for each unit of time < 1345252933 836044 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :THEY GAVE ME NO STRAW < 1345252968 983239 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :drinking is beneath me, yet I must for I have no straw < 1345253171 530717 :derdon_!~derdon@p5DE89B0D.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1345253196 948870 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :thinking, of course, of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Have_No_Mouth,_and_I_Must_Scream < 1345253197 262775 :derdon!~derdon@p5DE8A88D.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1345253393 111182 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, today I relearned where the Children of Bodom got their name from < 1345253394 792008 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :... turns out the real story is less interesting than the one I made up and remembered earlier < 1345253584 445517 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1345253707 449779 :derdon_!~derdon@p5DE89B0D.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1345254187 912458 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Boston man guilty of trying to rob the same Cambridge bank twice" < 1345254212 543210 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :since when is it a crime to rob a bank twice!? < 1345254255 482547 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Guilty! Of bank robbery, and double bank robbery!" < 1345254299 171288 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the constitution protects against double jeopardy! < 1345254337 82460 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, but he's being charged *three* times. < 1345254358 909268 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Once for the first robbery, then twice for the double bank robbery. < 1345254686 428117 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and he was caught by this guy: http://chainsawsuit.com/tag/two-cops/ < 1345254735 702709 :pikhq_!~pikhq@70-56-230-158.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1345254740 357908 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-151-96.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1345255110 590082 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/3qizy6/ < 1345256165 871549 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://paste.lisp.org/display/131085 < 1345256217 453629 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(defadt shape (square side) (circle radius)) < 1345256227 300884 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Expands into a shape class, with subclasses square and circle < 1345256245 481326 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :square has a slot side with reader square-side, and circle has a reader radius with circle-radius < 1345256262 678003 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should really make shape abstract somehow < 1345256293 732863 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i never metaprogram i didn't like < 1345256645 397829 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Welcomeegan back to Boston! < 1345256697 388518 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, does that code prove I'm a Haskell addict? < 1345256754 12173 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do you care whether people think you're a Haskell addict? < 1345256760 599330 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-219-42.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ask elliott kmc, does that code prove I'm a Haskell addict? < 1345256761 383102 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1345256838 978847 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ask monqy welcome back to non-boston. noston < 1345256839 338868 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1345256852 972446 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I watched a movie today where a bunch of people had the last name "Parker". < 1345256866 608299 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jack, Katie, Thomas, and Bruno. < 1345256869 26618 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :No William. < 1345256889 26727 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :thankschaf < 1345256901 44445 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :No Peter? < 1345256932 581076 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anytimeegan. < 1345257126 699556 :oklopol!~oklopol@59-125-119-111.HINET-IP.hinet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1345257134 830389 :oklopol!~oklopol@59-125-119-111.HINET-IP.hinet.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :soup < 1345257152 434953 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-157-161.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1345257189 131198 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-151-96.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1345257247 37485 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, actually, I think Tcl is interesting even compared to Kernel, because even in things that in Kernel would be a operative, you can still dynamically construct arguments that the equivalent in Tcl wll end up seeing the result < 1345257266 799782 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :whee, internet at home became 3x as fast while i was away < 1345257293 965290 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: i don't understand < 1345257297 369170 :psyk!~psyk@cs27105187.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: What a shame.. < 1345257367 148240 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, here's some code, first a normal use of if, and then dynamically constructing arguments to the if. I think I'm making it sound fancier than it really is < 1345257379 221476 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if {1 < 2} {puts "Hello"} < 1345257420 194903 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :set somefunc {puts}; if {1 < 2} [list $somefunc "Hello"] < 1345257442 404785 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That list command will be executed no matter what the if thinks. Yet, the earlier puts is not < 1345257752 509781 :oklopol!~oklopol@59-125-119-111.HINET-IP.hinet.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i discussed politics with this russian guy yesterday and he told me i have been brainwashed 100% liberal by the tv < 1345257775 911305 :oklopol!~oklopol@59-125-119-111.HINET-IP.hinet.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so now i feel like i should learn what liberals think < 1345257785 372084 :oklopol!~oklopol@59-125-119-111.HINET-IP.hinet.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and get a tv < 1345257824 567572 :oklopol!~oklopol@59-125-119-111.HINET-IP.hinet.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :at some point in the discussion he responded to something with "that's liberal propaganda based on the idea that the earth is the whole universe" < 1345257895 675810 :oklopol!~oklopol@59-125-119-111.HINET-IP.hinet.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :later, he said, rephrasing slightly, "the reason ethnic groups are the natural division between which wars and territory stuff happens is that they are the second largest concentric circle around you" (with the obvious interpretation) < 1345257942 725550 :oklopol!~oklopol@59-125-119-111.HINET-IP.hinet.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so given that he himself introduced martians and just said this, i figured it made sense to ask if he thought nations would then become meaningless if life very similar to ours were discovered on the planets of our solar system < 1345257960 294585 :oklopol!~oklopol@59-125-119-111.HINET-IP.hinet.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :his response was that this question was isaac asimov's liberal propaganda < 1345257992 346702 :TeruFSX!~TeruFSX@174-20-34-153.mpls.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1345257999 326871 :oklopol!~oklopol@59-125-119-111.HINET-IP.hinet.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :when i told him i have no idea who he is and kept asking him why he can't answer a natural question for 20 minutes, he finally said, very vaguely, that perhaps nations would become somewhat less meaningful < 1345258001 921379 :oklopol!~oklopol@59-125-119-111.HINET-IP.hinet.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then < 1345258020 331897 :oklopol!~oklopol@59-125-119-111.HINET-IP.hinet.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :he told me he has just said enough to get a 2 year prison sentence in russia. < 1345258076 540309 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I don't know Tcl... < 1345258088 47671 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't really just read some Tcl code and know what you're talking about < 1345258137 808284 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if {1 < 2} {puts "Hello"} < 1345258144 364731 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if takes two strings. {} is a string delimiter < 1345258150 653260 :oklopol!~oklopol@59-125-119-111.HINET-IP.hinet.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :funny thing being that he told me i've been brainwashed by the liberals behind tv programs, and can't think on my own. and he actually admits he is not allowed to think on his own, but that he still is still right and liberals writing the tv programs should be killed. < 1345258164 338477 :oklopol!~oklopol@59-125-119-111.HINET-IP.hinet.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i take crackpots a bit too seriously :D < 1345258242 590825 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are no special forms, and yet I can still dynamically make a string to be passed to the second argument to if < 1345258562 538381 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what do brackets mean < 1345258569 256895 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :{this is a string} < 1345258583 118774 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :[list $somefunc "Hello"] < 1345258585 582719 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatsat < 1345258616 621582 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That executes the code in the brackets and sort of pastes in the result < 1345258625 885904 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except it's safer than merely pasting it in < 1345258636 107143 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :safer how? < 1345258641 592834 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does seem a bit like kernel, yeah < 1345258654 336678 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It will still be one argument when passed in to the command, even if the result contains spaces < 1345258654 503542 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't see the distinction you're drawing, though < 1345258683 411445 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i'm too tired or something < 1345258711 398045 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Suppose you have an operative. How do you deal with the situation where you want to dynamically construct code to pass the operative? < 1345258718 723435 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(In Kernel) < 1345258740 960135 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you use eval < 1345258761 667942 :oklopol!~oklopol@59-125-119-111.HINET-IP.hinet.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think Sgeo means it's not just pasted in in that you can't get out of the if block? < 1345258768 24493 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's hygenic because you eval a list like ( stuff) < 1345258772 166260 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :not (name-of-an-operative stuff) < 1345258792 919357 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :evaling a symbol does a name lookup, but an operative just evaluates to itself < 1345258796 191297 :oklopol!~oklopol@59-125-119-111.HINET-IP.hinet.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh maybe something deeper than that < 1345258810 940247 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe I'm just thinking it's a bit easier in Tcl than Kernel < 1345258811 126320 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok maybe the hygeine point is not too relevant < 1345258874 104092 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe so < 1345258904 838776 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: did you implement a kernel-like language and play with it yet? < 1345258916 392935 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No >.> < 1345258926 788733 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's fun! < 1345258946 418770 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the interpreter is super super small < 1345258951 848068 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I do think it makes more sense to do it Tcl's way than Kernel's way < 1345258956 710526 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even if the rest of Tcl is iffy < 1345258975 510207 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oooh, good comparison: Imagine a Lisp where, for things like if, you typically passed in quoted lists < 1345259003 421302 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. (if '(< 1 2) '(format t "Hello") '(format t "Goodbye")) < 1345259027 626518 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's basically the Tcl approach < 1345259035 854472 :david_werecat!~david_wer@24-52-224-101.cable.teksavvy.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1345259037 27534 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In this scenario, if would be a function < 1345259039 69105 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's also basically the Kernel approach >_< < 1345259068 557952 :oklopol!~oklopol@59-125-119-111.HINET-IP.hinet.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kernel uses strings too? < 1345259080 152141 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, but neither does that lisp example < 1345259083 249872 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, with quoting marking the call site? I thought the distinction was made at the function's level < 1345259096 176910 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the quoting is implicit in every application < 1345259101 563565 :oklopol!~oklopol@59-125-119-111.HINET-IP.hinet.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that's my point, i assumed kernel did it the smart way < 1345259103 792854 :oklopol!~oklopol@59-125-119-111.HINET-IP.hinet.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :unlike tcl < 1345259114 891671 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : Even if the rest of Tcl is iffy < 1345259149 578807 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :an operative gets unevaluated syntax trees of its arguments < 1345259156 807477 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :as if it were a lisp function and the arguments had been quoted < 1345259173 303878 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it also gets an argument for the environment at the call site < 1345259175 690045 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But maybe I want to evaluate some of my arguments, use quasiquoting with others, and others unevaluated < 1345259178 662958 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that it can safely use 'eval' on those syntax trees < 1345259185 413967 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That should be the choice of the caller, not the operative/applicative < 1345259188 444650 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: then you call 'eval' on some of those arguments and not on the others < 1345259202 916559 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :why should it? < 1345259216 509105 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems more flexible < 1345259233 779204 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, maybe not "more" flexible, but I think it would make a lot of sense like that < 1345259253 824696 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm wondering now whether you can extend Kernel within the language to support the splice idea, like Tcl's [] or Template Haskell's $() < 1345259310 243959 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's basically just (eval env (quasiquote (... (unquote ...) ...))) < 1345259328 476527 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it would be good to have nicer syntax for this < 1345259329 5891 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should note that Tcl doesn't have quasiquoting, and that makes me a sad panda < 1345259354 690245 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tcl also uses strings :( < 1345259366 353163 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the idea that programs are structured data isn't really mainstream yet? < 1345259384 899968 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Strings aren't a big deal if there's a nice way to take them apart and put them together < 1345259394 974022 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which in Tcl there is for a single command call but not for multiple :( < 1345259401 556192 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, any structured data can be serialized >_< < 1345259412 440656 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :strings aren't a big deal so long as you have a parser and a printer < 1345259784 569393 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :In my IRC client I split the input from the server into lines and then into words < 1345259889 308285 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, pretty sure [] is different from Haskell's $() < 1345259898 215667 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :$() doesn't actually run the code immediately, does it? < 1345259962 289280 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tell me when Haskell does run code immediately < 1345260306 881508 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: it runs the code at compile time and splices in the result < 1345260336 749931 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1345260465 616124 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least this is GHC's implementation < 1345260479 433002 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Template Haskell isn't in the language standard, anyway < 1345260498 787309 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would love to see Haskell without the compile/run-time distinction < 1345260509 536225 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would basically be a fusion of Template Haskell and GHC API into something much nicer < 1345260543 337532 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :at any point you could construct a Haskell AST, compile it, and get the resulting function as a value < 1345260556 701209 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and hopefully this would be implemented with a clever JIT compiler < 1345260568 565465 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which indeed could produce much better code than an ahead-of-time compiler like GHC < 1345260581 408305 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to write a prime sieve in Haskell and failing < 1345260589 441449 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: you and 10,000 other people < 1345260606 27269 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i used to think JITs are a hack for languages which don't support efficient static compilation < 1345260614 405475 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but actually a JIT can do crazy cool things a static compiler can't < 1345260627 968101 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like finding hot paths and optimising those? < 1345260654 259110 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and optimizing with respect to assumptions which don't hold in general < 1345260671 439977 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just check the assumption and bail out to the interpreter if it's violated < 1345260720 242353 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"this variable is usually true, let's assume it's true and then let's inline 10 functions together and constant-propogate them" < 1345260750 842278 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :with Haskell you have the possibility of eliminating a lot of "is this a thunk or an evaluated thing" checks < 1345260802 430629 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Did you see that someone was working on a Haskell tracing JIT? < 1345260802 614174 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :edwardk has thought this through more than i have < 1345260809 132811 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've just listened to him long enough to know that it would be awesome < 1345260814 613779 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: was it edwardk? < 1345260817 300495 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1345260818 867073 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1345260819 700540 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :link? < 1345260820 559892 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :nominolo, I think. < 1345260822 431972 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1345260861 582912 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/HaskellImplementorsWorkshop/2012/Schilling < 1345260890 212268 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yeah, fusion and typeclass dictionaries < 1345260895 550706 :heroux_!~heroux@5070823C.static.ziggozakelijk.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1345260904 748110 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :a JIT would help massively with those < 1345260924 326810 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway that's cool < 1345260926 147456 :heroux!~heroux@5070823C.static.ziggozakelijk.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1345260932 131986 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this thing usable? < 1345260934 944001 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it would also help with all the indirect jumps that GHC generates everywhere. < 1345260944 483305 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know. I just heard about it recently. < 1345260950 521509 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's still prototype-stage. < 1345260968 500010 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/nominolo/lambdachine < 1345261035 294376 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems like every attempt to do something really cool GHC doesn't ends up bitrotting at the prototype / academic-quality stage < 1345261039 80011 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hope that doesn't happen here < 1345261043 228982 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it probably will :( < 1345261056 876871 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only hope is to get it merged with GHC < 1345261065 184711 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is how GHC is becoming an even bigger ball of mud < 1345261094 805735 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there aren't that many people who care about Haskell and there are good reasons why the vast vast majority of them only care about GHC < 1345261098 257007 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: You can tell GCC which branch of an if will be taken more often and it will optimise with that in mind, but it's not automatic < 1345261127 872253 :oklopol!~oklopol@59-125-119-111.HINET-IP.hinet.net QUIT : < 1345261129 874723 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: you can tell it to make records of which branch is taken more often, and then compile again using that data < 1345261162 602862 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :-fprofile-generate and -fprofile-use < 1345261163 983305 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is still not the same as having it happen on the go < 1345261168 296134 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1345261219 390322 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :by attaching your research project to GHC you get a team of people who are obliged to care somewhat when your research project stops working on certain versions of Mac OS X for reasons which are uninteresting to your research < 1345261264 588756 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Man, I have a lot of projects I'd like to attach to GHC. < 1345261270 613681 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most of them have nothing to do with Haskell, though. < 1345261312 46039 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Don't like macs? =P < 1345261331 239756 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Did you say Stripe is doing a new CTF soon? < 1345261338 208671 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Yes, they announced it. < 1345261340 456210 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Next Wednesday. < 1345261342 901623 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1345261347 888128 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@google stripe web ctf < 1345261349 279976 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4389229 < 1345261349 453082 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Title: '; CREATE TABLE `Capture the Flag`; -- Stripe CTF Web Edition coming next week' ... < 1345261387 431693 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, i bet i will learn more from this one < 1345261424 589135 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a large class of web vulnerabilities that don't fit into the normal CTF format very well, I think. < 1345261440 970805 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anything that involves a logged-in user's browser, or something along those lines. < 1345261524 532193 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i am curious to see how it works < 1345261546 920978 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :will there be a level on how to cheat at Yahoo Poker circa 2002 < 1345261553 298320 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :cause i would win < 1345261565 345310 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you cheat at Yahoo Poker circa 2002? < 1345261620 355191 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than the server sending individual cards to the clients, it just sends the RNG seed used to generate the deck < 1345261644 660867 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1345261655 299537 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can figure out what all the hidden cards are < 1345261662 189567 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lol < 1345261674 498397 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you can reverse engineer enough of the client < 1345261687 676683 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which was not too hard, because it was a java applet and the bytecode was not sufficiently obfuscated < 1345261722 997996 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sadly yahoo poker is fake money only < 1345261729 577233 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is no such thing as sufficient obfuscation < 1345261738 958213 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fake money = real internet points < 1345261739 921629 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: how do you figure? < 1345261770 301357 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, there is sufficient obfuscation as in obfuscated enough for nobody to ever bother < 1345261784 733983 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"sufficient" is meaningless without a threat model in mind < 1345261816 586030 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :anything in obfuscation (and in security in general) is about making an attack expensive enough to mitigate the modeled threat < 1345261823 778329 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are very few absolutes < 1345261834 739948 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :In this case sending the cards instead of the seed would be much simpler, of course. < 1345261862 537478 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was thinking about this today w.r.t. the shenanigans used to hide firmware within programmed chips < 1345261887 180155 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if it takes your competitor only one month of one skilled engineer's time to get around this < 1345261890 187507 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's pretty valuable < 1345261891 114526 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :The best way to hide firmware is for there to be no firmware < 1345261902 784420 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: the best way to survive is to die < 1345261929 266796 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: No, the best way to survive is to never be born < 1345261942 958491 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the product cycle is short enough then you don't need to hold off reverse engnieers for very long at all < 1345261977 228252 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway you can reverse chips with no firmware, of course < 1345262010 436850 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, all of Tcl's problems are a matter of what commands are available default < 1345262023 856817 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The goal with a lot of DRM, I understand, is to stop people from copying media just for the first N weeks when the majority of sales happen. < 1345262030 562445 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :By making a new standard library, I should be able to make a beautiful language < 1345262034 955445 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://visual6502.org/JSSim/index.html < 1345262049 77698 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: what about the fact that it uses strings for everything < 1345262052 941519 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: interesting < 1345262055 390800 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, not a problem < 1345262086 269175 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just provide the means to make lists of lists from strings and the other way around < 1345262148 467987 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: but i think that doesn't work either < 1345262157 551809 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Why not? < 1345262162 66252 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it's more like "the first N weeks of the availability of a particular DRM mechanism" < 1345262179 695491 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, I think it's also used to keep the resale market down. < 1345262194 735808 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: With computer games, that might be the same thing. < 1345262201 681053 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :once you've broken CSS then you have all DVDs as soon as they come out < 1345262208 421661 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although that's a little odd for PC games because they don't have much of a market in physical sales. < 1345262219 494449 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: maybe, i don't think they dream up a totally novel DRM scheme from scratch for every game < 1345262225 508223 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, resale is a thing < 1345262232 789898 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :man, the douche tricks people use to prevent resale < 1345262234 753475 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-157-161.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: The people producing it hallucinate that they can stop it forever. < 1345262250 746356 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :textbooks which come with an "online learning" site that can only be used once < 1345262257 45619 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and which the prof will make you use for some reason < 1345262266 778139 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, SecuRom e.g. has been consistently used for quite a long time, although I don't know how quickly it adapts. < 1345262270 23075 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: do they? < 1345262283 701913 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-157-161.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: They seem to. < 1345262284 936689 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or are we just caricaturing our opponents as stupid? < 1345262296 350233 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :DRM can go die < 1345262301 498251 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-157-161.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Why caricature; our opponents came up with CSS. < 1345262305 958588 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-157-161.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :They clearly are stupid. < 1345262317 844709 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, the marketing people for the companies who make DRM are not exactly going to give an accurate assessment of its value < 1345262335 626704 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CSS is super old < 1345262340 602654 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yeah it's dumb < 1345262351 835020 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're certainly not the calculating, cold schemers many make them out to be. < 1345262351 981048 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tcl needs quasiquoting, more acceptance of things merely being value (i.e. ternary if) < 1345262356 979975 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anonymous procedures < 1345262370 312334 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or you could use a good language :( < 1345262381 103928 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry just trollin' here < 1345262392 346864 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, these things are for the most part standard library level, not syntax level < 1345262412 4938 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Biggest syntax level thing is that an arbitrary string can be a command only if made into one via interp alias < 1345262460 984243 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-157-161.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: You could very easily do your own Tcl-like... < 1345262477 549436 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-157-161.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doing a passable Tcl is like 500 lines of C. < 1345262495 106315 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-157-161.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/of C/of reasonably natural C/ < 1345262526 472284 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I'm making my own language, a Lisp-like might make more sense < 1345262554 874579 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-157-161.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then you need a garbage collector. < 1345262576 485020 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can always make your C programs the include lines and then one huge one-line main function < 1345262618 989872 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that much is well-known < 1345262663 3143 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a light switch here labeled "A20". < 1345262663 176672 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there must be lisp-like languages with manual memory management < 1345262735 378369 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_Oriented_Assembly_Lisp ? < 1345262738 299030 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, apparently not. < 1345262762 259716 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where everything is a function and you do control structures by passing them in lists < 1345262812 158403 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :In lambda calculus, everything really is a function < 1345262836 38917 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-219-42.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PART :#esoteric < 1345262844 4506 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep... < 1345263012 449350 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1345263243 111668 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why isn't Lisp done that way, exactly? < 1345263273 441125 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which way? < 1345263283 95647 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1345263306 103073 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :with special forms as functions which take quoted arguments? < 1345263340 889523 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Having numbers be functions is a bit silly < 1345263400 184541 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::DD < 1345263533 181421 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, yes < 1345263586 466038 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, Kernel is a Lisp done that way :) < 1345263603 961526 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and operatives are like fexprs, which date back to some of the earliest Lisps < 1345263604 146106 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tends to disagree with that statement
< 1345263637 935659 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need to be careful if you want lexical scoping < 1345263649 622248 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :many special forms are going to evaluate their arguments eventually < 1345263655 12333 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :they need to do so in the caller's environment < 1345263670 282138 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why vau binds an extra variable to the caller's environment < 1345263673 235285 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which can be passed to 'eval' < 1345263759 808777 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. Have every function take the environment as an argument, maybe? < 1345263763 785222 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Church numerals are pretty cool, but I don't think it's what you'd want to use most of the time < 1345263769 319036 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's how it works in kernel >_< < 1345263782 30771 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :for s/function/operative/ < 1345263801 254642 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then which is evaluated when is the combiner's decision, not the caller's < 1345263811 478308 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it should be the caller making the choices < 1345263814 198541 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can write a combiner which evaluates everything an extra time < 1345263818 375088 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then the caller can use quote < 1345263822 417430 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's like lisp < 1345263840 957958 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't understand why it's the caller's choice < 1345263854 418878 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :whether and when the various bits of a combination get evaluated is a critical part of the meaning of the combiner < 1345263860 924734 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because then the caller can choose to construct something to pass an operative as an argument < 1345263867 680706 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-156-135.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1345263872 66019 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, you can do that fine with eval in kernel < 1345264071 136366 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-157-161.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1345264104 294875 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think this is not a fundamental thing < 1345264123 163698 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :for any operative f you can make an operative g such that (f x y z) is always the same as (g 'x 'y 'z) < 1345264158 882282 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what 'wrap' does, isn't it? < 1345264186 521410 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can make a library for Kernel where 'if' and such work this way < 1345264231 709992 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can make a library in Common Lisp where if works that way too < 1345264261 151661 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you? < 1345264268 763150 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about getting the right environment for eval? < 1345264606 38695 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :one interesting consequence of Kernel's design is that environments are first-class objects < 1345264607 37785 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, possibly. Thinking about it < 1345264636 564380 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you provide the appropriate accessors and mutators for those objects, you can define things like 'define' and 'let' within the language < 1345264654 265899 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Common Lisp has first-class environments, but I think they're opaque < 1345264669 763439 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1345264673 780374 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are they used for? < 1345264720 85492 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um. I think macros get an environment parameter if they want, and not sure where they can be used < 1345264871 475814 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :They do see the lexical environment < 1345264876 75965 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure about dynamic environment < 1345264895 436315 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://paste.lisp.org/display/131088 < 1345264934 891419 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably, to make the sort of if in CL that I want, would need a different way to define functions < 1345264952 1825 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Or just a get-env function, come to think of it) < 1345264981 681365 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1345265194 89961 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently eval can't take an argument function) < 1345265204 726912 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm, an environment object < 1345265212 285899 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wtfs at "argument function"
< 1345265240 171940 :ogrom!~del@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1345265279 655358 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There should be an esolang based on the concept of "argument function" < 1345265394 825689 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't that just be an argument that's a function? < 1345265442 218416 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1345265458 804825 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Have you seen edwardk's Control.Lens? < 1345265468 3733 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking more a function that specifies the arguments somehow < 1345265539 962489 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :31<Sgeo>30 So, what _can_ I do with environment objects? < 1345265540 108787 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :18<20Bike> use them with macroexpand, basically. < 1345265590 170143 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : if you really feel like doing bizarre things, try looking up cltl2. e.g., sbcl has some nonstandard functions that let you mess with environments more. < 1345265805 226604 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: probably < 1345265845 565066 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you use them with macroexpand? < 1345265896 5254 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, pass them in, I think < 1345265912 909410 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :macroëxpand < 1345265922 838916 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :macrøxpand < 1345265959 461716 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can imagine a macro without explicit use of environments that expands differently depending on lexical environment < 1345265983 42898 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or... even not that < 1345265994 690691 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if presumably would... I think < 1345266016 763813 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :macrőexpand < 1345266076 808302 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, ő is the accented version of ö < 1345266078 699947 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes sense < 1345266138 638617 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Hmm, ö + U+301 COMBINING ACUTE ACCENT doesn't produce ő :-( < 1345266205 364368 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, so that experiment did not work out < 1345266205 550185 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1345266211 476433 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that's specific to hungarian < 1345266238 550058 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Combining character should take locale into account when they're rendered, obviously. < 1345266247 982060 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1345266252 664980 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :☹ < 1345266255 137834 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION should propose it to the Unicodemittee.
< 1345266277 135490 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You already depend on locale for other things. < 1345266282 988111 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like capitalization. < 1345266338 658139 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is trying to figure out when environments would make a difference to macroexpansion
< 1345266379 250404 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :macroexpǻnsion < 1345266421 158093 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1345266422 534303 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sleep, 'night all < 1345266438 445424 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, macrolet and symbol-macrolet are also part of the lexical environment < 1345266895 966931 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1345267252 359336 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, yay, g++ fixed a bug. < 1345267421 330922 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-156-135.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also introduced a regression! < 1345267465 933815 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1345267478 372008 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Remember the references-vs-pointers thing I was talking about here a few months ago? < 1345267482 358041 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it was with you, maybe. < 1345267494 703928 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some inlining thing worked with pointers but not with references. < 1345267901 855360 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Am I becoming a CL fan again? :/ < 1345268147 535249 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CL still does not have native continuations or coroutines, and I don't trust cl-cont < 1345268361 831582 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :j < 1345268527 525316 :mig21a!~mig@bb116-15-1-16.singnet.com.sg JOIN :#esoteric < 1345268881 895245 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think olsner's idea about a meta-brainfuck that produces new brainfuck derivatives is a good idea < 1345268904 887358 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :should it produce new ones on the implementation or the specification level? < 1345268930 695351 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if on the specification, what should be the specification language? < 1345268989 737645 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :how to take as many different kinds of modifications into account as possible? < 1345269032 782452 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :should bf be rephrased in some constraint-based language and then the constraints randomly modified? Cellular automaton, perhaps? < 1345269051 543578 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :or string rewriting language? < 1345269108 202275 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :or should there be some bf-specific specification language that makes the "typical" modifications, such as adding new state variables or commands, especially easy? < 1345269120 75849 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :psyk: what do you think? < 1345269122 910450 :psyk!~psyk@cs27105187.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :atehwa: not much < 1345269125 740380 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that reminds me < 1345269143 746401 :pikhq_!~pikhq@168-103-250-70.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1345269155 357417 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking, is there a language which would basically be RLEfuck, which is brainfuck but RLE-compressed? < 1345269162 547001 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-156-135.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1345269167 674530 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :So instead of writing +++++++, you'd just have 7+ < 1345269174 527601 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :bfjoust < 1345269261 566311 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if such a preprocessor could be easily specified in sed < 1345269261 920487 :mig21a!~mig@bb116-15-1-16.singnet.com.sg QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1345269273 881637 :mig21a!~mig@bb116-15-1-16.singnet.com.sg JOIN :#esoteric < 1345269378 624673 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does sed allow repetitions? < 1345269399 379066 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :How would you use sed to turn 7+ into +++++++ < 1345269556 721283 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/7\(.\)/\1\1\1\1\1\1\1/g < 1345269616 446687 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm thinking about the rules that will turn 23+ into 2(++++++++++)3+ < 1345269639 684711 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why would you want that? < 1345269687 717253 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not too much work to write separate rules for 1,2,3,4,5,... but if I have separate rules for all numbers, my program will be infinitely long < 1345269711 88976 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or you could not use sed for this < 1345269732 373839 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but being able to is reason enough to try :) < 1345269784 207605 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if you encounter something like 123+ < 1345269809 799797 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Back to infinite length < 1345269842 413244 :mig21a!~mig@bb116-15-1-16.singnet.com.sg QUIT :Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi < 1345270339 951178 :pikhq!~pikhq@168-103-248-243.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1345270361 149778 :pikhq_!~pikhq@168-103-250-70.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1345270453 549170 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1345270494 528772 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1345270627 555037 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"CLISP fully supports Unicode 3.2" < 1345270630 717838 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How "impressive" < 1345270660 4270 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lol clisp < 1345270666 115439 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only good thing about clisp is libraries < 1345270880 856043 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :clisp has a lot of libraries? I though sbcl was generally the more popular implementation? < 1345270894 778135 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you thought that by "clisp" I meant "Common Lisp" < 1345270965 282729 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, clisp is the GNU common lisp compiler/interpreter < 1345271381 419526 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: yes, can be arranged < 1345271421 9717 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull, apparently, CLisp can save images without dying? < 1345271424 477117 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a good thing IMO < 1345271429 645533 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :123+ rewrites to 12(++++++++++)3+ which rewrites to 1({put 100 + here})2(++++++++++)3+ < 1345271433 408518 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Useful for a hypothetical LispNomic < 1345271443 570657 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :clisp doesn't even have tail recursion < 1345271454 658576 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it doesn't have tail recursion it's not a lisp in my book < 1345271463 576215 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm < 1345271477 587211 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull, so, Common Lisp is not a lisp. Good to know. < 1345271530 591985 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a brainfuck tape with 256 possible values per cell, you only really need 256 substitutions < 1345271665 829993 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why am I looking at Let over Lambda < 1345271745 363295 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless its one of those situations where 5+ is not the same as 261+ < 1345271795 721071 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: I'm thinking about brainfuck with bignum cells < 1345272436 457613 :pikhq!~pikhq@168-103-248-243.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1345272444 341403 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-146-166.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1345273298 959945 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :psyk: I guess it figures < 1345273308 627448 :psyk!~psyk@cs27105187.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :atehwa: tiedoksesi: en ole britney-fani < 1345273583 259817 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: well, I don't know if it's a safe assumption to take :) A generic preprocessor will work whatever the use of the produced program will be. < 1345273709 976136 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :You might want 257. for some reason < 1345273733 933952 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal JOIN :#esoteric < 1345273823 425454 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1345274466 535141 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, well, the real reason i said that is i don't know sed < 1345274558 78481 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that i couldn't do it < 1345275171 85644 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull, atehwa check out BF-RLE < 1345275181 897932 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : Gah, switching between laptops where the fn and ctrl keys are swapped is so annoying < 1345275188 79075 :mig22!~miguelort@bb116-15-1-16.singnet.com.sg JOIN :#esoteric < 1345275194 220322 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially because I made it. < 1345275200 663876 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can get used to either, but it takes a couple of days each time I switch < 1345275339 771333 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note that I'm not the one who made the BF-to-BF-RLE script, which means people other than me liked it < 1345275342 805921 :mig22!~miguelort@bb116-15-1-16.singnet.com.sg QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1345275348 962404 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This has in fact gone to my head. < 1345275356 957503 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Wow, base 62 < 1345275363 123705 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what I was thinking about < 1345275363 845547 :mig22!~miguelort@bb116-15-1-16.singnet.com.sg JOIN :#esoteric < 1345275399 967629 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Replace each run of characters greater than 2 with the character then the number of times it appears minus 3 (e.g. +++ turns into +0). " Interesting rule < 1345275413 219490 :mig22!~miguelort@bb116-15-1-16.singnet.com.sg PART :#esoteric < 1345275434 159610 :mig22!~miguelort@bb116-15-1-16.singnet.com.sg JOIN :#esoteric < 1345275497 295456 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope you can see how that can occasionally save a character. < 1345275549 163017 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@188.134.41.211 JOIN :#esoteric < 1345275551 736053 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :With brainfuck? Yeah =P < 1345275552 400096 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :By making the lowest useful number 0, the run before it roles over to the next digit is larger < 1345275568 950843 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not what I meant by interesting < 1345275577 258053 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's interesting is that ++ doesn't get RLEd < 1345275588 773111 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can see why though < 1345275781 704509 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats a pretty good rule < 1345275808 553998 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except harder to code =P < 1345275812 857789 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only slightly though < 1345275830 359368 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what i'm seeing with this is that replacement is efficient < 1345275988 107420 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like it takes care of the fact that some characters won't need to be run length encoded, but it will rle them if they happen to bunch up < 1345276011 153388 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just thought of another possibility, except I haven't thought the implications through < 1345276031 70022 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the leading digit of a 2 or more digit number is implicitly increased by 1 < 1345276042 399642 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is, 00 is 62 < 1345276049 129447 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :another good rule is realize tidus has never touched the esolang wiki... which says a lot about him < 1345276055 642614 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-146-166.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1345276064 867550 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :he is best not paid much heed < 1345276075 802182 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-151-67.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1345276076 589070 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And then of course add 3 to get number of times to place character down) < 1345276080 245030 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: That is pretty good < 1345276101 957700 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haven't thought implications through though < 1345276132 479562 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least sum numbers would have multiple representations < 1345276137 615405 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is probably inefficient < 1345276140 595585 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*some < 1345276182 845936 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric : in biology, evolution is not elegant < 1345276198 175190 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything is a kludge < 1345276205 990372 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1345276224 208827 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I would hope humans are better planners than evolution. < 1345276226 573335 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :disclaimer: i know even less about biology than i do about esolangs < 1345276256 213022 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :im just making this up. :( < 1345276286 140584 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not qualified to say what is and isn't a kludge, but humans can plan ahead, and evolution, to the best of my understanding, does not. < 1345276286 355353 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Which numbers would have multiple representations? < 1345276318 213966 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: well humans try to plan ahead :P < 1345276380 464529 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Evolution does all sorts of dirty tricks < 1345276409 516719 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :moore's law takes a heck of a lot of work to hold it up... a lot of late hours in many offices.. corporate mergers < 1345276423 454837 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-151-67.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: No, evolution does precisely one trick. It's a very straight-forward hill climbing algorithm. < 1345276463 209690 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :consumers too^ < 1345276471 759977 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zz = 64 * 63 + 63; 000 = 1 * 64^3 < 1345276478 116570 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-151-67.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Its trick is just letting beneficial changes stick around. < 1345276485 7172 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, I have to be wrong < 1345276497 239451 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-151-67.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything else is just a thing that was a beneficial change. < 1345276534 36218 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, no < 1345276537 927232 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That proves my point < 1345276566 229684 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since 000 is smaller than zz, 000 is representable as a two-digit number < 1345276617 845038 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...wait, 000 is larger than zz, hence my stating that I must be wrong < 1345276634 259975 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, I'm mis...multiplying zz < 1345276662 914106 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, I was close enough < 1345276689 212019 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is a bit confused at the moment
< 1345276712 495412 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I think I misdid zz < 1345276839 844266 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if we are evolving, and if we are studying evolution, then surely something will happen < 1345276873 707188 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zz = (63+1) * 64^1 + 63 * 64^0; 000 = (0+1) * 64^2 + 0 * 64^1 + 0 * 64^0 < 1345276925 102944 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zz = 4159; 000 = 4096 < 1345277022 434797 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :000 is smaller than zz, therefore, there are some numbers, those numbers between [4096, 4159], that have two representations. < 1345277047 891524 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're calculating 000 wrong < 1345277060 19809 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :000 should be zz + 1 < 1345277069 203038 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whatever zz ends up being < 1345277094 184536 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would require a different definition for my system < 1345277097 94461 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1345277103 447327 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yes, that's ideal < 1345277198 309537 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has never touched the esolang wiki.
< 1345277202 236372 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does that say about me? < 1345277260 829631 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :BRB. When I get back I'll think about it more but I have an idea < 1345277648 193835 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it says nothing! < 1345277777 238837 :mig22!~miguelort@bb116-15-1-16.singnet.com.sg QUIT :Quit: mig22 < 1345277963 865335 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-26-19.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1345278316 417302 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's think in binary. < 1345278330 655071 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 = 0. 1 = 1. 00 = 2. < 1345278347 635999 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, it's more elegant if all digits obeyed the rules, whatever they are < 1345278377 745786 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, one may ask what is a thought < 1345278428 292016 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric := 0. 0 = 1. 1 = 2. 00 = 3. 01 = 4. 10 = 5. 11 = 6. 000 = 7. < 1345278445 526818 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1345278513 242450 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and.. its probably better if people like me don't ask questions like that < 1345278604 439820 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: i'd be worried more about your second thoughts than your questions if i were you < 1345278659 784836 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well if i was a perfect version of me who was also you < 1345278662 812045 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am delusional. i can't trust my own conclusions < 1345278681 64225 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: but you realize _that_ is _also_ a delusion? < 1345278722 577343 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and one that upholds your incompetence, in a self fulfilling prophecy. < 1345278741 934427 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :he said, hypocritically. < 1345278786 52293 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone who has showered in the last few months has some authority on the topic < 1345278823 150564 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT DO YOU KNOW ABOUT MY SHOWERING < 1345278837 775348 :psyk!~psyk@cs27105187.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I know that now both of us has made an error in grammar. or fwe. < 1345278846 572727 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: It seems to be a power of 2 - 1 < 1345278856 594613 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :psyk: NONESNES < 1345278859 880609 :psyk!~psyk@cs27105187.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: mit� siit�? < 1345278878 507646 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :suddenly i noticed that video card on my desk says highly commended by pc authority magazine < 1345278882 997230 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^box of < 1345278885 156142 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not finnish < 1345278889 268128 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :111 = 14 0000 = 15 < 1345278890 508486 :psyk!~psyk@cs27105187.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I want to kill somebody. < 1345278908 237733 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is psyk from Mezzacotta? < 1345278924 404190 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: well the evidence seems inconclusive so far < 1345278941 517888 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: A sequence of 1s is always worth twice the same-length sequence of 0s < 1345279016 215408 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: at some point i abandoned common sense < 1345279033 23114 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This channel is now officially mezzacotta. < 1345279053 470782 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: hey me too! < 1345279075 219453 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: but ... common sense seems to be relative to a given level of perspective < 1345279090 644343 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. a relatively common one... < 1345279100 357350 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is nevertheless almost certainly wrong. < 1345279121 344239 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but may be better than some of the alternatives < 1345279160 851471 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like.. the sorts of things conspiracy theorists worry about probably do occur in matters of security < 1345279191 605409 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :some of them. maybe. < 1345279286 976171 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, for example, false flag operations are a known warfare or political tactic, and are based on creating false perceptions.. < 1345279319 998810 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So what's the best way to describe what each digit does? < 1345279330 779719 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, at some point, people are being fed systematic lies < 1345279351 753040 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and someone is funding it < 1345279361 77555 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is starting to regret this conversation, as expected.
< 1345279418 203172 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :with all those kinds of tactics at play, it's not really possible that things are what they seem < 1345279436 533134 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :more importantly, my intuition keeps telling me not to argue. < 1345279473 657185 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently i have anxiety < 1345279486 572103 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :while my common sense is screaming to say "you cannot conclude much from mere _existence_ without considering _prevalence_ < 1345279489 660093 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that seems to be the angle my psychologist is taking < 1345279490 97341 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1345279536 677427 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not actually paranoia or delusion, but anxiety < 1345279553 28902 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, if X exists, you can conclude that it is not true that X does not exist. < 1345279560 138322 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: *GASP* < 1345279577 531719 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I haven't been following, but if you had value(s) = 2^len(s) - 1 + bin(s) like I thought I saw, where s is the string and bin(s) is the binary value, it doesn't sound all that reasonable to ask what each digit alone is doing. It's not exactly a positional system, after all. < 1345279584 493249 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is why i suppose i cant just sit in here, and chill < 1345279670 750884 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :anxiety is evil :( < 1345279672 617884 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION isn't even entirely sure if what fizzie just describes describes it accurately
< 1345279704 409150 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: he didn't say it directly, but when i used words like paranoia, he was saying how paranoia is a specific thinking process < 1345279737 927123 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw its all free in australia.. that is.. i bulkbill nearly all my medical care.. maybe because people like me < 1345279744 640825 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric : :D < 1345279766 941968 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well most is free in norway too < 1345279769 323676 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: If "0"^n is always 2^n - 1, and you go in the usual order from that, I'd say the value kind of has to be what I mentioned. < 1345279770 900698 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1345279803 29234 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Alternatively speaking, it's just like having an implicit "1" in front and then doing a -1 to bias "" (i.e. 1) to 0. < 1345279839 590712 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1345279867 941025 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"000" -> 0b1000-1 -> 8-1 -> 7; "111" -> 0b1111-1 -> 15-1 -> 14 and so on and so forth. < 1345279906 129268 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : = 0. 0 = 1. 1 = 2. 00 = 3. 01 = 4. 10 = 5. 11 = 6. 000 = 7. <-- was this the system? < 1345279937 673085 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1345279960 598042 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not the system when discussing zz before) < 1345280000 981088 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so about evolution, what i was thinking was, there are patterns in nature. and in response to these non-chaotic patterns, it's possible to have optimized solutions < 1345280010 416374 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm right, that's 2^len(s) - 1 + bin(s) indeed i think. where 2^len(s) is just adding an initial 1. < 1345280065 641143 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh fizzie already said both parts < 1345280068 111035 :mig21a!~mig@111.65.28.21 JOIN :#esoteric < 1345280116 81042 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but a temporary solution which is built depending on circumstances isn't much use if the circumstances change < 1345280164 389006 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: which is why _very_ strongly adapted species tend to die out in environmental upheave, while more flexible ones then take over < 1345280168 450925 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :afaiu < 1345280226 172965 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so.. that is the spirit of the words i had in mind when i said everything in evolution is a kludge < 1345280228 706639 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps this explains the gradual development of intelligence - it's a form of extreme flexibility < 1345280268 188397 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :after many mass extinction, the survivors tended to be more intelligent. or maybe that's just my impression. < 1345280272 745502 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*s < 1345280281 412514 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no point in using the Y combinator in Common Lisp, is there? < 1345280288 351956 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one thing though which i ponder is why life needed to become more complex < 1345280324 932311 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't see why it wasn't sufficient for microorganisms to remain microorganisms < 1345280357 998118 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but.. having said that i don't know the longer story of life on earth < 1345280451 31614 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(defmacro lambda-let (name arglist &body body) `(labels ((,name ,arglist ,@body)) #',name)) < 1345280451 690602 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: It (if I assume the obvious extension) seems a bit more complicated for bases other than 2, though; for base 4, "" -> 0, "0" -> 1, ..., "3" -> 4, "00" -> 5, ..., "33" -> 20, "000" -> 21, ..., "0000" -> 85 and so on. (Or "0"^n -> sum_{i=0..n-1} 4^i in general, since there's a gap of 4^i between "0"^i and "0"^(i+1).) < 1345280455 896132 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :^^completely untested < 1345280460 441371 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: well it took almost 4 billion years of life before the macroorganisms started really developing. so presumably the conditions had to be just right to make that advantageous. < 1345280531 190722 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION clutches at the air as if to express dramatic frustration. but theres always that question of why
< 1345280531 817086 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: perhaps it's another case of the anthropic principle: macroorganisms _don't_ usually develop, but the planets without them don't have intelligent species to discuss why they didn't. < 1345280566 823602 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :because evidence is that life itself arrived on earth _fast_, but macroorganisms didn't. < 1345280570 732083 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm.. ok ill say it tis way < 1345280576 831977 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^this way < 1345280625 700930 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :since unevolved life is just as alive as evolved life, then hte purpose of evolution is counter intuitive < 1345280633 256982 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: there was probably btw this period just before called "snowball earth", a global ice age. perhaps the organisms had to cluster to survive it. < 1345280662 743468 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, it's theorized that it may have been global) < 1345280693 174160 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1345280744 938691 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: hm < 1345280827 107702 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: btw some _define_ life as anything that is capable of undergoing darwinian evolution < 1345280852 543375 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Norns are alive! < 1345280869 387704 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the relevance to esolangs is, that code is like and problems ... programmers write code to survive problems their bosses give them < 1345280879 653185 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: The Norns are alive with the sound of music. < 1345280907 843593 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so a programmer's state is his codebase < 1345280960 925779 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but bosses survive by being more demanding in response to the programmers increasing codebase < 1345281049 241921 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :... im gonna just leave it there < 1345283353 350978 :TeruFSX!~TeruFSX@174-20-34-153.mpls.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1345283653 703879 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1345284546 329522 :oonbotti!~oonbotti@a91-154-82-50.elisa-laajakaista.fi QUIT :Quit: oonbotti < 1345284596 128397 :oonbotti!~oonbotti@a91-154-82-50.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1345285371 86747 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1345285389 971979 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1345286167 156415 :derdon!~derdon@p5DE89B0D.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1345286646 208913 :mig21a!~mig@111.65.28.21 QUIT :Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi < 1345286777 525268 :MoALTz!~no@host-92-2-141-255.as43234.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1345287004 487944 :MoALTz_!~no@host-92-2-131-20.as43234.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1345287091 870472 :MoALTz!~no@host-92-2-141-255.as43234.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1345287245 487506 :MoALTz!~no@host-92-2-131-80.as43234.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1345287378 538332 :MoALTz_!~no@host-92-2-131-20.as43234.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1345287626 537497 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-26-19.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :toBinary 0 = [] < 1345287626 722234 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-26-19.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :toBinary n < 1345287626 868455 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-26-19.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric : | n `mod` 2 == 0 = ( toBinary (n `div` 2) ) ++ "0" < 1345287626 868658 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-26-19.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric : | otherwise = ( toBinary ((n - 1) `div` 2) ) ++ "1" < 1345287635 12427 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-26-19.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that bad or good Haskell code < 1345287724 706446 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-26-19.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :or should I use rem < 1345287739 60533 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-26-19.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :mh. probably < 1345287770 621892 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-26-19.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait does something like even exist? < 1345287784 64123 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-26-19.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yes < 1345287970 892146 :mig21a!~mig@111.65.28.21 JOIN :#esoteric < 1345289221 815042 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest: I'm trying to figure out how to write a prime sieve :) < 1345289295 61807 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :anothertest: Numeric.showIntAtBase < 1345289307 323781 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Although that has a strange arbitrary base limit that is below 36.) < 1345289648 372083 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm wondering why primesieve ya@[y:ys] = y : primesieve (filter (\a -> (a `mod` y) == 0) ya) doesn't work < 1345289782 964944 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, get rid of the ya@ and replace the second ya with ys < 1345289786 187149 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :But still doesn't work < 1345290232 285120 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-26-19.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :ion: I just wanted to implement this to try something in Haskell, but when I need this I will definitely use that; also 36 doesn't seem strange (it's the amount of alphanumeric symbols) < 1345290407 516498 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops, meant /= rather than == < 1345290440 515415 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still fails with same error < 1345291908 66687 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@188.134.41.211 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1345292278 302006 :mig21a!~mig@111.65.28.21 QUIT :Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi < 1345292289 549358 :mig21a!~mig@111.65.28.21 JOIN :#esoteric < 1345292313 77159 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1345292898 646359 :MoALTz!~no@host-92-2-131-80.as43234.net QUIT :Quit: brb < 1345292958 141076 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :anothertest: You may have missed the word “below” in my sentenct. < 1345292959 803006 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :e < 1345293041 463536 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :anothertest: You might want to use divMod. < 1345293046 169983 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :!= 41 `divMod` 2 < 1345293051 852304 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-26-19.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :ion: oh yes I did miss that < 1345293053 593508 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 41 `divMod` 2 < 1345293054 674381 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : (20,1) < 1345293058 850652 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-26-19.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :ion: very strange indeed < 1345293248 979946 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :> reverse . unfoldr (\n -> swap (n `divMod` 2) <$ guard (n /= 0)) $ 15 < 1345293250 391968 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: `swap' < 1345293265 248604 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let swap = snd &&& fst in reverse . unfoldr (\n -> swap (n `divMod` 2) <$ guard (n /= 0)) $ 15 < 1345293267 451492 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [1,1,1,1] < 1345293273 585514 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let swap = snd &&& fst in reverse . unfoldr (\n -> swap (n `divMod` 2) <$ guard (n /= 0)) $ 17 < 1345293275 768264 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [1,0,0,0,1] < 1345293355 814897 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1345293356 838923 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oOo CODE, is a yet another programming language based on brainfuck. Its creation was inspired by the way how teenager trolls tend to use upper and lower case to draw attention to themselves. < 1345293372 412772 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone give me a reason to go on < 1345293408 621293 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://blog.trecio.cba.pl/index.php/2010/04/ooo-code/lang-pref/en/ < 1345293410 354043 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god < 1345293419 210745 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they even spell it "Brainf**k" < 1345293530 539894 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone should make a language called Brainf**k that’s nothing like Brainfuck. < 1345293547 1261 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1345293563 287691 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :So anyone who wants to refer to Brainfuck is forced to be explicit. < 1345293565 454477 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'll be functional and object oriented < 1345293586 334940 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :let fibb a n = fibb (a,a,a) (n - 1) < 1345293592 694973 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why can't it work? < 1345293664 735736 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the type of that function? < 1345293872 498835 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: occurs check < 1345293908 228826 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yep < 1345293930 477546 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: Good point < 1345293962 327641 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :let fibb a n = (fibb a n, fibb a n, fibb a n) doesn't work either, same error < 1345294031 153647 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :occurs check, again < 1345294041 414563 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :try to figure out the type of the function and you'll see < 1345294042 722585 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm hoping for a -> b -> (a,a,a) < 1345294055 38290 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: so if fibb a n :: (a,a,a) < 1345294057 803965 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, not (a,a,a) < 1345294064 601145 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :then (fibb a n, fibb a n, fibb a n) :: ((a,a,a),(a,a,a),(a,a,a)) < 1345294072 81255 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's the result of fibb a n < 1345294078 281658 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a contradiction < 1345294081 637902 :psyk!~psyk@cs27105187.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No it isn't! < 1345294081 783841 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I meant (n - 1) < 1345294090 576959 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, the return type of fibb a n would have to be a = (a,a,a), which is the whole problem < 1345294097 956647 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :psyk: ? < 1345294102 741030 :psyk!~psyk@cs27105187.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: What are you doing? < 1345294106 87716 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, why did I call it fibb < 1345294109 475171 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant to call it sierp < 1345294110 8061 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :psyk: answering FreeFull's haskell question < 1345294114 781873 :psyk!~psyk@cs27105187.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Vielleich, oder so. < 1345294119 604311 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :psyk: what < 1345294128 421440 :psyk!~psyk@cs27105187.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Shit of your gastrointestinal tract. < 1345294137 697433 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ^ < 1345294141 121130 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :psyk: hotik? < 1345294144 932577 :psyk!~psyk@cs27105187.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ion: kerro lis��. < 1345294149 946954 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :psyk: are you a bpt < 1345294151 1238 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*bot < 1345294152 709518 :psyk!~psyk@cs27105187.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No, i'm not < 1345294158 54321 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, so just an idiot then < 1345294168 366218 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the heck is up with this place lately < 1345294221 162126 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe if I write an a -> (a,a,a) function and then apply it recursively < 1345294265 95690 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you looking for something like data Foo a = Foo a (Foo a) (Foo a) (Foo a)? < 1345294334 725716 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm looking for something that produces the code equivalent of a sierpinski triangle < 1345294339 658229 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't looked at data yet < 1345294365 564794 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently psyk is, in fact, a bot http://sange.fi/~atehwa/psyk/psykbot.ss < 1345294373 587728 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a contradiction < 1345294375 957748 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :psyk: ? < 1345294377 367957 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1345294381 685120 :psyk!~psyk@cs27105187.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Without contradiction there's no life. < 1345294384 685614 :psyk!~psyk@cs27105187.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: eik� euroopan unioni olekin perseest�? < 1345294401 381025 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :atehwa: is there a way to get this thing to not respond to me < 1345294413 528585 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :/ingore < 1345294427 815975 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops < 1345294431 361741 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :/algore < 1345294433 190216 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ignore is cheating :p < 1345295050 681770 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I managed delay the occurs check to the function call =P < 1345295327 762729 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull, /ignore still makes everyone else see it. < 1345295338 259734 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, wait, what's the difference between this and fungot. < 1345295339 802653 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: written by fnord teenage atheists who cant except that a religious man could be such a sticking point if so many of similar ones? in many of it's earlier releases, the minneapolis scene, and kristen's role in fnord sound. i'll set up a separate page from the < 1345295361 353986 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: They can /ignore too < 1345295361 803138 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Beyond the fact that fungot is better. < 1345295362 894266 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: nope, he only serves his country, democratic or fnord. < 1345295602 90276 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style ct < 1345295602 803169 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: ct (Chrono Trigger game script) < 1345295606 174238 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot! < 1345295606 982169 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: your majesty! and queen. he and a friend left on a journey 10. all functions are down... got the terra arm and the crisis arm! found a dreamstone?! then i'll repair the masamune! < 1345295799 976801 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: you have to ping fungot. < 1345295800 498940 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: to the northwest of this cape. he took back the medal from the frog king. and i'd like to see that mystical sword for myself! < 1345295868 44862 :MoALTz!~no@host-92-8-231-226.as43234.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1345296193 29877 :MoALTz!~no@host-92-8-231-226.as43234.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1345296708 973674 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, wait, what triggers psyk? < 1345296868 75419 :david_werecat!~david_wer@24-52-224-101.cable.teksavvy.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1345296925 185032 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least this: < 1345296926 215682 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a contradiction < 1345296931 253414 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a contradiction < 1345296931 445344 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a contradiction < 1345296937 879341 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pah < 1345297356 284362 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :all of which are american dreams < 1345297402 750568 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: anyway it bugged me when i didn't say anything to it above < 1345297586 74525 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, ??? < 1345297630 406017 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :disregard me < 1345298002 798067 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-26-19.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh I dislike writing unit tests < 1345298024 148888 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-26-19.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless they all pass :D < 1345298033 629413 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-26-19.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I doubt < 1345298038 853561 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's my hobby! < 1345299169 889540 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow i thought psyk was a real person < 1345299332 190251 :ogrom!~del@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1345300421 311619 :TeruFSX!~TeruFSX@174-20-34-153.mpls.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1345300465 477349 :kinoSi!~kinosi@27-96-32-84.ipq.jp QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1345300491 472838 :kinoSi!~kinosi@27-96-32-84.ipq.jp JOIN :#esoteric < 1345300601 272700 :MoALTz!~no@host-92-2-115-101.as43234.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1345302079 351532 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1345302389 187988 :ogrom!~del@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1345302904 656109 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1345305282 396277 :ogrom!~del@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1345305308 211954 :ogrom!~del@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1345305356 509924 :mig21a!~mig@111.65.28.21 QUIT :Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi < 1345305450 594324 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: as opposed to? < 1345305520 541726 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Police arrested two Cambridge men on charges of assault and battery and an unarmed robbery after victims told police they tried to steal their pizza, shoved them to the ground and ripped their pants." < 1345305528 764852 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : itidus21: as opposed to? < 1345305529 981144 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :psyk is a bot < 1345305537 754166 :psyk!~psyk@cs27105187.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I know, and that was an answer. < 1345305558 726222 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@188.134.41.211 JOIN :#esoteric < 1345305704 246167 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :#esoteric : Where even the bots are real people. < 1345305705 152061 :oonbotti!~oonbotti@a91-154-82-50.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing here < 1345305859 680545 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oonbotti: are you real human? < 1345305860 980239 :oonbotti!~oonbotti@a91-154-82-50.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti: Perhaps you believe I am real human. < 1345306019 550738 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-97-154-35.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1345306069 304245 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oonbotti: Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like? < 1345306069 641496 :oonbotti!~oonbotti@a91-154-82-50.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Please consider whether you can answer your own question. < 1345306174 592252 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION slaps oonbotti around a bit with a colorless green idea
< 1345306244 102816 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1345306295 789138 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :colorless and green, but how does it fnarf? < 1345306413 793429 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :poorly < 1345306428 172755 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't judge. < 1345306430 209785 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only I can fnarf. < 1345306507 603389 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1345306533 187985 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A suspicious object that caused a nearly six-hour-long bomb scare in a Palo Alto neighborhood Friday afternoon turned out to be a piece of illegal drug-making equipment, according to a police agent." < 1345306556 830106 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder whether that's equipment that's used to make illegal drugs, or illegal equipment used to make drugs. < 1345306637 497935 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably both < 1345306654 814315 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Illegal equipment used to make illegal drugs? < 1345306655 658087 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also hichaf < 1345306656 717942 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1345306660 79867 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's doubly illegal. < 1345306670 785228 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :helloeegan < 1345306673 713075 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :once you use equipment to make or consume illegal drugs, it usually becomes illegal < 1345306686 391383 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"drug paraphernalia" < 1345306712 7452 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :helloeegan sounds like a holiday where everyone puts on costumes and consumes LSD. < 1345306736 87717 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i bet that head shops would buy and sell used bongs if not for this rule < 1345306740 420585 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is drug equipment illegal? < 1345306742 530432 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there would be a big market for it < 1345306744 794495 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: why not < 1345306751 193503 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not how illegal works. :-( < 1345306758 201235 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is when drugs are involved < 1345306813 620907 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-151-67.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Some think "illegal" is a fundamental property of things and actions that they can attach. < 1345306824 316724 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-151-67.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: These people tend to support drug legislation. < 1345306844 96195 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"paraphernalia" is a nice-sounding word. < 1345306922 416852 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it is nice < 1345306954 829674 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, I have a file with a list of nice-sounding words, and "paraphernalia" is in it. < 1345306960 881324 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder whether the word is illegal to use too. < 1345306984 777711 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if words can be paraphernalia < 1345307061 206236 :ion!ion@heh.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1345307065 624462 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is government if words have no meaning < 1345307104 829924 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: did i tell you that Caltech won a $100,000 prize from the Bill and Melinda Gates foundation for inventing the toilet of the future? < 1345307155 535956 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://features.caltech.edu/features/423 < 1345307159 308574 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope. < 1345307183 204887 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Reinventing the Toilet Challenge" < 1345307188 700600 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The toilet challenge of the future. < 1345307194 979068 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1345307201 137764 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is your code good enough to reinvent the toilet < 1345307265 164654 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1345307359 302422 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I woke up at 09:something today. < 1345307370 275517 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is sort of a result of having my sleep schedule wrap around. < 1345307384 357097 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder whether I can stop it from moving further now. < 1345307418 155895 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-97-154-35.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay! < 1345307504 340215 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-97-154-35.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have an early/late night (delete as appropriate) < 1345307734 894745 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : helloeegan sounds like a holiday where everyone puts on costumes and consumes LSD. < 1345307738 925028 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are a lot of holidays like that < 1345307748 937384 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-97-154-35.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, no, that's just you. < 1345307832 141033 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :like Burning Man < 1345307842 889769 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also Bay to Breakers (or does everyone just get really drunk for that?) < 1345307870 266523 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone told me I should go to Bay to Breakers a couple of weeks before it happened. < 1345307873 190215 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then I forgot. < 1345307906 441051 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"exciting happenings from shachaf's recent past" < 1345308198 426554 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder whether taxicabs in Manhattan aren't allowed to go on Broadway. < 1345308373 511864 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :why wouldn't they be? < 1345308390 489254 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think there are plenty of cabs on broadway < 1345308391 517074 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :To keep taxicab distance reasonable. < 1345308415 388757 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :-_- < 1345308424 405408 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a one-way street south of columbus circle < 1345308444 532524 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that means the distances aren't even symmetric! < 1345308451 339718 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good ol' Columbus Circle. < 1345308476 79937 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has taken the subway to Columbus Circle station many times.
< 1345308486 219661 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah? < 1345308494 914020 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :My uncle lives nearby. < 1345308515 454191 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which subway do you take < 1345308524 135247 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depends on where I'm coming from. < 1345308535 406221 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-97-154-35.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The one in New York'd be my guess < 1345308546 565490 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-97-154-35.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The one in Moscow wouldn't be much use < 1345308552 827920 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least A and C and 1. < 1345308568 472345 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :And E from JFK, connecting to A. < 1345308842 573597 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: did you see http://www.stonebrowndesign.com/uploads/9/7/6/9/9769402/t-time.jpg < 1345308899 697820 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope. < 1345308934 351483 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't there a silver line too? < 1345308957 567810 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not rail though < 1345309118 883600 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the silver line SL1/SL2 is a bus which runs partly in a dedicated tunnel with subway-like stations and platforms < 1345309123 414099 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and partly on the street < 1345309165 890422 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so arguably it deserves to be shown if the green line does, because the green line also runs partly in a dedicated tunnel and partly in the street < 1345309185 966619 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the SL1/SL2 fare is the same as the subway fare, not the bus fare < 1345309254 569099 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(except that it's now free to board the SL1 at the airport, and then you can even transfer to other subway lines for free) < 1345309297 789105 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you see the Helsinki-mocking subway image? http://users.ics.aalto.fi/htkallas/subway_maps.jpg < 1345309317 464823 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the SL4/SL5 are basically just limited-stop buses < 1345309320 175342 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(So twue.) < 1345309355 773576 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is true < 1345309387 331452 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :helsinki has a lot of trams though < 1345309397 257685 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they run mostly in the street and so aren't much better than buses < 1345309429 288367 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, and there's not *that* many routes there either. Though admittedly at least a plural. < 1345309451 32538 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-97-154-35.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Tyne and Wear Metro has two lines, and Monument station has 3 < 1345309456 942616 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-97-154-35.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*is on 3 < 1345309494 646467 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, because the line goes through twice? < 1345309498 817800 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-97-154-35.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah < 1345309526 495923 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-97-154-35.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're the most imaginatively named lines ever < 1345309529 69134 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-97-154-35.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Green line < 1345309530 168404 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-97-154-35.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And... < 1345309533 222869 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-97-154-35.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yellow line < 1345309565 577135 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Edgware Road in London is a bit like that < 1345309568 148177 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the circle line < 1345309601 451603 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is no longer a circle :/ < 1345309620 476147 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is a plan for a subway branch from Kamppi (essentially city centre) to the Helsinki-Vantaa airport, but I'm not especially hopeful I'll be alive any more when they get that done. It took a terrible amount of wrangling for them to even manage to start building the current extension eastwards. (And they're already building the regular rail line to go under Helsinki-Vantaa and connect to ... < 1345309626 499472 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :... the two local rail tracks, so they're probably not that interested in the subway.) < 1345309778 544172 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :helsinki also has far fewer people than the other 3 metro areas in that picture < 1345309790 656363 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, but that doesn't lessen our national shame. < 1345309805 868832 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Most people probably aren't feeling that.) < 1345309819 464330 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-97-154-35.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your capital's subway network is WORSE THAN NEWCASTLE/SUNDERLAND's < 1345309827 813549 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :atriq: :'''( < 1345309903 106190 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're going to paint the "Joker line" (slightly-limited-stops frequent-service bus line -- in the future, lines) buses orange in 2014 or so because they're "subway-like" and that will help in something or other. < 1345309930 267425 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Our subway trains are orange.) < 1345309999 514282 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-97-154-35.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Our (I say "our", but the Metro doesn't come this far west) trains are yellow and purple, I think?) < 1345310007 360598 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :atriq: On the other hand, our capital's subway network makes the "List of northernmost items" of Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_northernmost_items (see "Transportation"). < 1345310086 918039 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks to Svalbard, Norway gets quite a few of those. < 1345310131 955756 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: it seems like the Silver Line is mainly used to get from/to the airport and the rest of the fancy subway-like part of it is pretty underused < 1345310153 71207 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :they could have got better value for money if they'd construted a people mover from the existing Airport station on the Blue Line to the airport < 1345310160 849832 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has never been to BOS.
< 1345310161 333776 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(using airport tax money, no less) < 1345310200 997253 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :According to the aforementioned article, the northernmost vineyard in the world is the Olkiluoto Nuclear Power Plant in Finland. That sounds... somewhat dubious. < 1345310214 712019 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently it is true, though. < 1345310230 315324 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be less convenient for me, though, because there's no direct transfer from the red line to the blue line < 1345310236 218314 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"-- the warm outlet water is circulated through a garden where water melons and Lithuanian grapes are grown and from which Olkiluoto wine is produced." < 1345310251 197381 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just offhand it sounds slightly suspicious to make wine at a nuclear power plant, though. < 1345310261 724038 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-26-19.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1345310459 172272 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay svalbard < 1345310487 636939 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :BOS is a pretty crappy airport but it's unusually conveniently located < 1345310511 236184 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not if you move to SF! < 1345310515 573724 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Which I heard might happen.) < 1345310545 9724 :ogrom!~del@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1345310566 673149 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :-_- < 1345310570 92948 :ogrom!~del@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1345310572 811383 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nelhage is moving to SF < 1345310575 835591 :ogrom!~del@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1345310580 504184 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :to work for stripe < 1345310592 883461 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is he one of the ones who left Kspl*? < 1345310621 941903 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :For Stripe? Hmm. < 1345310793 995933 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1345310837 645316 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :When? < 1345311021 808126 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :unsafeCreate l f = unsafeDupablePerformIO (create l f) < 1345311042 287699 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't that exactly the thing you're supposed not to use unsafeDupablePerformIO for? < 1345311300 835974 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably < 1345311501 601355 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-97-154-35.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, I think the way I use unsafeCoerce in my ridiculous factorial program < 1345311503 949007 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-97-154-35.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :IS ACTUALLY SAFE < 1345311529 409179 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :with respect to what set of assumptions? < 1345311531 118688 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric : Also probably some code for some (rather practical but still cool) physics simulations. < 1345311544 472215 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-97-154-35.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, the assumptions in GHC.Prim.unsafeCoerce# < 1345311549 525916 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1345311569 542136 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Did you see the post about how you can make unsafeCoerce from GeneralizedNewtypeDeriving? < 1345311586 719635 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-97-154-35.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, wait, it isn;t < 1345311589 170112 :psyk!~psyk@cs27105187.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :atriq: hyv�� y�t� < 1345311595 736082 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :With either type families or GADTs, and possibly with neither. < 1345311603 635339 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: i thought that was old news < 1345311612 142164 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that they fixed it < 1345311616 964899 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-97-154-35.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :psyk, goodnight to you to? < 1345311621 186078 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-97-154-35.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*+o < 1345311623 912545 :psyk!~psyk@cs27105187.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :atriq: robottiel�imi�kin kiinnostaa < 1345311628 373520 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :atriq: how do you use it? < 1345311641 190698 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: http://joyoftypes.blogspot.com/2012/08/generalizednewtypederiving-is.html < 1345311663 82006 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-97-154-35.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, (t -> a) -> t; t -> (t -> a) < 1345311673 8454 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-97-154-35.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So a function can have itself as an input < 1345311682 270021 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-97-154-35.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fix is a more sensible alternative < 1345311727 811536 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"itself" in the sense of M = \x -> x x? < 1345311733 266330 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-97-154-35.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1345311984 243428 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: fun < 1345311985 133290 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it's time to switch to a safer implementation of GeneralizedNewtypeDeriving which just writes the boilerplate instance for you < 1345311985 500386 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds reasonable to me. < 1345311985 646594 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that might be less efficient, though < 1345312078 846693 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-97-154-35.as13285.net NICK :Taneb|Away < 1345312111 113804 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it's sufficient to write the boilerplate and type-check it, even if a less safe implementation is actually used? < 1345312176 571787 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am against GeneralizedNewtypeDeriving being faster than writing the boilerplate by hand < 1345312176 949667 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would rather the optimisation worked on the boilerplate < 1345312177 461740 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: interesting idea < 1345312177 608040 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yeah < 1345312178 115638 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this toilet of the future produces hydrogen gas < 1345312182 231968 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which could be useful but... < 1345312231 628137 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: But that's hard. < 1345312261 230055 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :then let it be slow :p < 1345312277 141546 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is it hard exactly < 1345312296 843287 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: recursion < 1345312299 64814 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i don't think it is actually very hard) < 1345312493 346800 :MoALTz!~no@host-92-2-115-101.as43234.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1345312621 527880 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :we gotta run run run to the toilets of the future < 1345312829 340967 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It sounds kind of hard to me. < 1345312844 229941 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'm no GHCfier. < 1345313829 72109 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1345313877 686028 :Taneb|Away!~Taneb@host-2-97-154-35.as13285.net NICK :atriq < 1345314673 934623 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :atriq|njnl < 1345314729 517408 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :main(x,y,e)char**e;{char a[256];char*b;char*c[256];char**d;int p;while(1){write(1,"$ ",2);for(b=a;*(b-1)!='\n';b++){read(0,b,1);}*b=0;d=c;*d++=a;for(b=a;b 'The other functions take the environment for the new process image from the external variable environ in the calling process.' < 1345315113 671945 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1345315303 552641 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :main(){char a[256];char*b;char*c[256];char**d;int p;while(1){write(1,"$ ",2);for(b=a;*(b-1)!='\n';b++){read(0,b,1);}*b=0;d=c;*d++=a;for(b=a;b but i mean i don't like jogging so i wouldn't like jogging while jerking off either < 1345316729 424123 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :857) < kmc> but i mean i don't like jogging so i wouldn't like jogging while jerking off either < 1345316741 434386 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :my victory is now complete < 1345316829 616206 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :my problem with IRC bots: < 1345316834 128259 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't just write an IRC bot < 1345316839 618430 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to write an IRC library every time first < 1345316844 650022 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :and by the time I'm done the library I'm bored with it < 1345316900 639690 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jogging while masturbating sounds both complicated and unpleasant. < 1345317005 131971 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :f you're not using equipment, yes < 1345317337 172544 :ogrom!~del@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1345317372 905705 :ion!ion@heh.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1345317387 314698 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/659943965/planetary-annihilation-a-next-generation-rts has a picture of a Penguin now. < 1345317412 865109 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should Back That Project since I keep complaining about RTSes. < 1345317776 831509 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1345317900 951443 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should read the CLtL2 docs for environment stuff, see if there's an eval that accepts an environment object in there < 1345318040 10764 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Write a program to find the largest possible rectangle of letters such that every row forms a word (reading left to right) and every column forms a word (reading top to bottom)." < 1345318044 251541 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds fun < 1345318057 324699 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, why do you keep complaining about RTSes># < 1345318066 248949 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( nope eval does not take an environment in CLtL2 < 1345318068 284329 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: Because they're bad. :-( < 1345318079 834946 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're inaccurately named, at least. < 1345318092 985587 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: You could add ACIO to GHC! < 1345318098 403318 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remember when you were talking about doing that? < 1345318112 419590 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's totally a pointless programming project. < 1345318219 343352 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why doesn't the quasiquoting syntax sugar have a more.. canonical form? < 1345318221 807677 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In CL? < 1345318248 161576 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in, '(foo bar baz) is (quote (foo bar baz)), so what's `(foo bar ,baz)? < 1345318286 583267 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: (quasiquote foo bar ,baz) at least in scheme < 1345318291 360981 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A horrendous mess of macros. < 1345318312 359847 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :,baz is (unquote baz) < 1345318322 787947 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in sceme < 1345318324 511148 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :scheme too < 1345318356 387899 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION grumbles about Scheme being a better language but still wanting to stick with CL
< 1345318366 40535 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-219-42.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1345318373 435171 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It’s the same in CL, too, AFAIU. < 1345318602 618226 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :clisp> (setq baz 42) `(foo bar ,baz) < 1345318604 907802 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(FOO BAR 42) < 1345318786 482542 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not answering the question for the win! < 1345318799 515395 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, setq? In this day and age? < 1345318804 131017 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1345319592 31394 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not exactly (quasiquote foo bar (unquote baz)), it's missing one level of parens. < 1345319595 51037 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :#;1> '`(foo bar ,baz) < 1345319597 529562 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(quasiquote (foo bar (unquote baz))) < 1345319642 752540 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/tree-monad/0.3/doc/html/Control-Monad-SearchTree.html how am i supposed to get the first result out of a SearchTree < 1345319669 106388 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shouldn't it be Foldable perhaps < 1345319706 346734 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, which language> < 1345319914 532260 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scheme. < 1345319922 297194 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would think it's the same in CL. < 1345319938 28167 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that's just a thought. < 1345319953 763212 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't have any CL systems on this computer anyway, just Schemes. < 1345320092 848129 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1345320098 646829 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aha. < 1345320111 12408 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and hi lambdabot < 1345320117 525074 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :cltl2 has an enclose function < 1345320147 397069 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Takes a lambda and optional environment, and gives a lambda as if that lambda were made in that environment < 1345320198 291260 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, is using CLtL2 to make my if that takes lists count, or is that cheating? < 1345320213 197000 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1345320243 282725 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :n/m < 1345320259 150471 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :" lambda-expression is permitted to reference only the parts of the environment argument env that are relevant only to syntactic processing, specifically declarations and the definitions of macros and symbol macros." < 1345320285 127634 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: what is cltl2? < 1345320298 562553 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti, a pre-ANSI version of Common Lisp < 1345320303 527596 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1345320314 112059 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so kinda like k&r c < 1345320322 354857 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :SBCL has a package that has functions that are in CLtL2 < 1345321057 549483 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-151-67.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1345321068 438184 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-145-60.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1345321624 862926 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I can't get speeds higher than 10kB/s on any torrents, it seems. < 1345321639 20479 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION paranoias
< 1345322581 907320 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@188.134.41.211 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1345322649 585105 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hacked by chinese < 1345322688 33049 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still sadding about being unable to manipulate environment objects in cool ways < 1345323019 655697 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scheme's eval accepts an environment, doesn't it? < 1345323044 77913 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-97-154-35.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover, doesn't it help if you port-forward a magic port? < 1345323304 762787 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, interesting. < 1345323414 707947 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't see it giving the several-hundredfold increase I need to make torrenting practical, though. < 1345323678 607063 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is eset's online scanner a good recommendation? < 1345323683 742970 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know people love NOD32 < 1345324192 46286 :Phantom___Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1345324262 796839 :Phantom___Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1345324353 460149 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1345324394 725590 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1345325743 646039 :ogrom!~del@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee QUIT :Quit: Left < 1345327147 363999 :NihilistDandy!~ND@65-183-140-119-dhcp.burlingtontelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1345327701 657967 :MoALTz!~no@host-92-2-115-39.as43234.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1345328037 88527 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1345330432 15727 :NihilistDandy!~ND@65-183-140-119-dhcp.burlingtontelecom.net QUIT :Excess Flood < 1345330464 335507 :NihilistDandy!~ND@65-183-140-119-dhcp.burlingtontelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1345332344 138450 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder what's the best algorithm for the word rectangle puzzle < 1345332346 526647 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-97-154-35.as13285.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1345332352 338204 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Write a program to find the largest possible rectangle of letters such that every row forms a word (reading left to right) and every column forms a word (reading top to bottom)." < 1345332374 410170 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sounds like a fun puzzle that requires actual thinking to solve well. < 1345332392 818437 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1345332394 100601 :TeruFSX!~TeruFSX@174-20-34-153.mpls.qwest.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1345332398 600750 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: What are some nifty isomorphic types in Haskell? < 1345332408 340297 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno < 1345332440 435460 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm collecting them now. < 1345332476 984717 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Things like data Foo t = forall a. Foo a (a -> a) (a -> t), Foo ~ (Nat ->) < 1345332890 434155 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I objected to newLisp yesterday, but I forgot why, so I'm looking at it again. < 1345332923 887164 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: do you have any actual thinking on this puzzle? < 1345332931 259799 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :my algorithm is not entirely un-clever, but probably not good enough < 1345333015 199885 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Nope. < 1345333032 140237 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't thought about it. < 1345333035 481205 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you find an optimal solution already? < 1345333041 520011 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1345333046 438383 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i found a probably not good enough solution < 1345333065 85230 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean generating an optimal rectangle, not generating it optimally. < 1345333065 237301 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :by which i mean it runs too slowly to find the biggest rectangle in a reasonable amount of time < 1345333068 361054 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1345333083 12061 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, i *might* have already found the biggest one, but probably not < 1345333215 306283 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :How big did you find? < 1345333226 721832 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :6 × 6 < 1345333359 471657 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Contexts in newLisp make sense, I _think_. Default functions, not so much < 1345333370 780113 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nü-lisp < 1345333458 730153 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know anything about FOOP, but that might be good? < 1345333460 525309 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION suddenly realizes something
< 1345333462 706378 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :νlisp < 1345333505 563908 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :NewLisp's dynamic scoping might not be a good idea in a Lisp-1 because functions are presumably "free varaiables" as I saw something describe it < 1345333512 41903 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1345333524 696797 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So might be too easy to accidentally overwrite a function that something deeper down uses < 1345333528 73 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1345333547 460486 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"dynamic scoping might not be a good idea" < 1345333551 395310 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :understatement of the week < 1345333559 594909 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :λιθπ < 1345333565 573356 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The thing I was reading made it sound survivable < 1345333571 786973 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :₪lisp < 1345333572 670097 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, it's survivable < 1345333576 130963 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so is polio < 1345333583 226671 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders if that pi should be a phi.
< 1345333591 342467 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"shouldn't that a be an α?" < 1345333684 167341 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Because strings can contain null characters in newLISP, they can be used to process binary data with most string manipulating functions. < 1345333684 335968 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1345333725 696509 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it should be if it's ancient Greek. < 1345333733 772041 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is of course the only legitimate kind. < 1345333893 352038 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambda-macro < 1345333894 666504 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1345333997 561838 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least (fn (x) x) turns into (lambda (x) x) rather than being a separate thing < 1345334001 891617 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, TIL that MySql is named after a person, whose name is My < 1345334105 100115 :Nisstyre!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1345334125 222348 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, is consing lambda lists supposed to make any sense? < 1345334151 791510 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastie.org/private/3flp4pvzpmiyst3o20bag < 1345334220 126115 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1345334299 794238 :Nisstyre!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre JOIN :#esoteric < 1345334310 551046 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quoting the manual < 1345334340 768324 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Due to a funny situation with throttling, my laptop gets significantly slower when I plug it in. < 1345334348 598410 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1345334351 200162 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is odd < 1345334359 180625 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may be able to force myself to like newLisp