←2012-08-22 2012-08-23 2012-08-24→ ↑2012 ↑all
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01:28:34 * Phantom_Hoover wonders if strong commutative encryption is actually possible.
01:28:42 <Phantom_Hoover> (I'm asking if anyone knows, if it's not clear.)
01:30:47 <NihilistDandy> Phantom_Hoover: http://crypto.stackexchange.com/questions/1363/software-implementation-of-a-commutative-cipher
01:30:49 <zzo38> I was wondering the same thing a few years ago actually.
01:31:07 <NihilistDandy> Not strong, anymore, I guess, but it's a starting point
01:49:20 <kmc> shachaf: are you CTFing?
01:49:33 <Phantom_Hoover> has anyone ced t f
01:49:58 <kmc> not yet
01:50:21 <kmc> i got to the last level, then decided i've done enough for the day
01:51:44 <shachaf> kmc: Yes, though I've also been distracted with other things.
01:52:02 <shachaf> (Are we spoilering in here?)
01:53:54 <kmc> dunno
01:54:16 <NihilistDandy> What CTF is this?
01:54:23 <shachaf> stripe-ctf.com
01:54:53 <shachaf> kmc: When I got to level 4 it was down, so I downloaded the code and tried to make it work locally.
01:55:07 <shachaf> If my hypothesis is correct it's impossible to do locally because of an extra server-side component.
01:56:10 <kmc> true, though that component is nothing special
01:57:05 <shachaf> Well, sure, I can emulate it myself if I know that it exists.
01:57:48 <shachaf> But I was assuming my local copy was equivalent to the server.
01:58:08 <kmc> you're exploiting a web application that has other concurrent users
01:58:15 <shachaf> Right.
01:58:17 <kmc> the download does not include an emulation of those users
01:58:26 <shachaf> Yep.
01:58:33 <shachaf> I think I explicitly commented on this before the CTF started.
01:58:58 <shachaf> Ah, got it.
01:59:16 <Phantom_Hoover> Hmm, apparently Vi Hart's father is a maths professor.
01:59:24 <Phantom_Hoover> That... explains a good few things.
02:19:45 <NihilistDandy> This is kinda fun.
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02:51:21 <Sgeo> I am addicted to the SCP wiki
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03:18:48 <Phantom_Hoover> Sgeo, fortunately you'll burn through the good content pretty quickly.
03:19:32 <Phantom_Hoover> Then you rapidly realise that a lot of it is dreck that's either formulaic or written by people who don't get lasting horror.
03:20:02 <Phantom_Hoover> Too often the author's thought of the trick already and gives away too much.
03:21:16 <NihilistDandy> Phantom_Hoover: Have you played Slender, at all?
03:21:35 <Phantom_Hoover> No, and there is very little that will make me do so.
03:22:06 <NihilistDandy> Oh? I downloaded it last week but I haven't run it, yet.
03:22:18 <Phantom_Hoover> I scare *incredibly* easily.
03:23:13 <NihilistDandy> Neat
03:23:16 <Phantom_Hoover> I did not sleep at all the night after first browsing the SCP wiki, or after reading some Slenderman stuff.
03:23:35 <NihilistDandy> Slenderman was fascinating for a week or two.
03:23:39 <NihilistDandy> I love well-done horror
03:23:52 <Phantom_Hoover> I just can't stop myself from throwing reason to the wind and scaring myself shitless, which is a pity because I love well-done horror too.
03:23:55 <NihilistDandy> Don't show me the monster, make me fear him
03:24:11 <Phantom_Hoover> It's like alcohol but with a hangover that can linger for months I guess.
03:25:30 <NihilistDandy> The worst bit of it is how it draws you in. Once I get on a creepypasta kick or some kind of new horror binge, I just can't stop until I'm thoroughly tweaked
03:26:48 <zzo38> I think SCP wiki they keep deleting too many files.
03:27:34 <itidus20> maybe that's part of the horror. (but probably not)
03:28:10 <Sgeo> Phantom_Hoover, there's so much material I haven't seen before
03:28:15 <Sgeo> http://www.scp-wiki.net/scp-453
03:28:35 <zzo38> They also don't give enough detail of experiments. I have many idea of the kind of experiments but I don't tell them (they are not open enough) and even if I did, I don't think they would know how to do it; they are the most difficult kind of thought experiments.
03:32:16 <Phantom_Hoover> Sgeo, yes, but most of it is crap.
03:32:33 <Phantom_Hoover> zzo38 confirmed as lovecraftian horror.
03:33:03 <Sgeo> zzo38, one of my favorites was deleted some time ago
03:33:07 <Phantom_Hoover> Sgeo, have you read the various Foundation fictions BtW.
03:33:26 <Sgeo> It was a gem (a ruby I think) that needed to be suspended in mercury in a thing that rotated
03:33:28 <Phantom_Hoover> Some of them are pretty good, especially the now-deleted Wanderlust.
03:33:33 <Sgeo> Phantom_Hoover, the Foundation Tales? Yeah
03:33:38 <Sgeo> Well, some of them
03:33:49 <Phantom_Hoover> What was the ruby one.
03:33:51 <Sgeo> I think there's a new thing, A something something something, that I don't know about
03:34:14 <Sgeo> Phantom_Hoover, it would destroy solid objects it was on
03:34:53 <Phantom_Hoover> Sgeo has obviously been reading a little too heavily on... 512? 505? Whichever it is that's impossible to remember.
03:35:19 <Phantom_Hoover> Sgeo, also uh how did that work, was it a gradual decay process?
03:35:41 <Sgeo> Phantom_Hoover, I don't remember
03:36:10 <Sgeo> I think it was found at the bottom of the sea on some shipwreck. I think it was deleted because it should have destroyed the Earth already.
03:36:20 <Phantom_Hoover> It's kind of fun to look through the deleted SCPs sometimes though.
03:36:28 <Phantom_Hoover> Erm, s/deleted/deprecated/.
03:36:47 <Phantom_Hoover> Because some of them were actually pretty well-known mainstays, like telekill alloy.
03:42:14 <itidus20> in reality scp is the military version of wikileaks
03:43:09 <itidus20> but i say this from a position that i don't want to read scp because of the chance it might actually be scary
03:49:49 <Sgeo> Phantom_Hoover, Are We Cool Yet?
03:49:57 <Phantom_Hoover> wat
03:50:25 <Sgeo> Phantom_Hoover, that's the A something something something I said I was unfamiliar with
03:50:31 <Sgeo> http://www.scp-wiki.net/groups-of-interest#toc1
03:51:14 <Phantom_Hoover> it's ten to fucking five, sgeo
03:51:21 <Phantom_Hoover> i am not following any links to scp at this hour
03:51:47 <Sgeo> itidus20, some of them are, some of them aren;t.
03:51:50 <Sgeo> aren't.
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04:07:11 <NihilistDandy> Phantom_Hoover: What about tvtropes? http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ButNotTooWhite
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04:08:57 <NihilistDandy> Aww. I turned join/part display off the other day due to noise, but now I just look a fool :/
04:11:55 <ion> I use something WeeChat calls a “smart filter”. It only hides those lines from users who haven’t been talking for an hour. (And you can toggle their visibility afterwards, too.)
04:12:27 <ion> For instance, Phantom_Hoover’s quit line is visible for me, but that’s the only one for 6 hours.
04:14:37 <NihilistDandy> Oh, that's neat. I should see if there's a setting like that
04:14:49 <NihilistDandy> If not, time for a feature request
04:15:19 <ion> Well, an hour in my settings. The default was shorter, i think.
04:17:20 <NihilistDandy> That's pretty useful
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06:25:56 <zzo38> Have you ever used to believe anything like these? http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?p=10684076#p10684076
06:32:34 <Sgeo> I once... contemplated the possibility of God acting by manipulating supposedly quantum random events
06:33:28 <itidus20> but is god a quantum random event?
06:35:14 <zzo38> Sgeo: Me too
06:37:15 <itidus20> i know there are apples and oranges, but are apples the same as oranges? :D
06:37:55 <zzo38> Same in what way? They are made of the same atoms, protons, neutrons, electrons, etc
06:40:05 <itidus20> if some things are different can all things still be the same?
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06:44:43 <itidus20> zzo38: good question
06:55:54 <Sgeo> A while ago (and I still hold this to be true) I decided that at a certain level, the concept of "sameness" is just a human construct.
06:56:35 <Sgeo> Whether one object is the same object as another doesn't really make sense when parts of the object cease being parts of the object and other parts replace it
06:56:56 <shachaf> Can you step in the same (Loch) ness twice?
06:57:37 <itidus20> shachaf: oh crap.. not a new idea
06:57:54 <itidus20> at least i am not herodotus... i think
07:00:33 <itidus20> i am not the same person that is
07:02:10 <NihilistDandy> I am not him who is called "I am"
07:02:13 <itidus20> clearly you can step in a similar ness twice
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07:57:57 <itidus20> what i am trying to say might be, if there is more than one member in a set that they aren't the same
07:59:45 <Sgeo> I'm starting to think that CLOS can emulate Clojure facilities easier than Clojure can emulate even some of the more basic CLOS facilies
07:59:54 <Sgeo> Such as inheritance with generic functions
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08:08:44 <NihilistDandy> itidus20: What if the members of the set are the same?
08:10:11 <itidus20> i tried to forget that part
08:17:22 <zzo38> Can we make a .NSF music where one person write the A track, and then second person can see A track and writes B track, third sees A and B and writes the C track, and so on? (AB = square wave channel, C = triangle wave channel, D = noise, etc)
08:18:15 <itidus20> i guess in life, at some point many of us will reach a stage where we essentially accept that the outcomes of our battles are behind us, and all our fears have been tested, and we just live out our days in routine
08:18:33 <coppro> Sgeo: uh, yeah
08:18:38 <coppro> CLOS is very powerful
08:18:41 <coppro> Clojure is... not
08:18:57 <coppro> zzo38: oh man nationstates
08:18:59 <coppro> i used to play that
08:19:23 <NihilistDandy> I periodically start a nation again until I grow bored and let it go inactive
08:19:47 <Sgeo> coppro, I did used to be impressed with Clojure's any-function multiple-dispatch, but that's fakable in CLOS via making the generic function something that the normal function just calls
08:20:12 <Sgeo> Normal function converts args into a symbol for generic function to dispatch on, and methods can use eql specializers
08:21:21 <coppro> now I just play too much homestuck :/
08:28:55 <itidus20> zzo38: sort of like an online collaborative story thing except with music?
08:29:34 <itidus20> i guess thats not quite what you meant
08:30:15 <NihilistDandy> itidus20: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exquisite_corpse
08:33:01 <zzo38> itidus20: Yes it is not quite what I meant.
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09:00:02 <Sgeo> So far, advantages Common Lisp has over Clojure: Condition system, CLOS. Clojure over Common Lisp: More libraries accessible (whether or not there are more libraries idiomatic), and generally cleaner design
09:00:06 <Sgeo> And more functional
09:02:33 <FreeFull> Clojure has stuff for concurency
09:09:32 <Sgeo> Oh, that too
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09:16:16 <Sgeo> Is debugging significantly harder in Clojure than Common Lisp due to .. stack trace issues and non-resumable exceptions?
09:16:37 <FreeFull> No idea, I haven't ever tried debugging any Clojure
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14:23:59 <atriq> The "except this" is now isolated :(
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15:15:59 <boily> atriq: what's an "except this", why is it unconnected, and is it edible?
15:16:35 <atriq> Two words, someone changed the topic, yes
15:16:57 <boily> thanks.
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18:10:13 <atriq> Help
18:10:18 <atriq> The internet's going out
18:11:01 <nortti> ok
18:11:10 <olsner> trip it over before it gets to the door
18:11:39 <atriq> It's handcuffed me to my chair
18:12:09 <olsner> you and your kinky internet, we don't want to hear about your "games"
18:12:35 <atriq> This isn't a game!
18:12:48 <atriq> It's never done this before!
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18:53:34 <atriq> kmc, regarding what you said about Black Holes and Revelations...
18:53:40 <atriq> I just re-listened to it
18:53:49 <atriq> I know completely agree with you
18:54:47 <atriq> War is overdue/The time has come for you/To shoot your leaders down/Join forces underground
18:55:19 <kmc> yep
18:55:51 <kmc> "No one's going to take me alive / Time has come to make things right / You and I must fight for our rights / You and I must fight to survive"
18:56:20 <zzo38> What would you think of 0^(0^x) function? I would think of the C !! and the Haskell types (Cont Zero) and (Codensity Initialize).
18:57:28 <atriq> > 0 ^ (0 ^ 1)
18:57:29 <lambdabot> 1
18:57:31 <atriq> > 0 ^ (0 ^ 0)
18:57:32 <lambdabot> 0
18:57:39 <atriq> > 0 ^ (0 ^ 7)
18:57:40 <lambdabot> 1
18:57:55 <atriq> kmc, what do you think of the 2nd law so far?
18:58:14 <kmc> haven't heard it yet
18:58:19 <kmc> but thanks for reminding me it exist
18:58:21 <kmc> s*
18:58:29 <kmc> today i'm listening to the new Infected Mushroom album
18:58:35 <atriq> Madness, Survival, and The 2nd Law: Unsustainable are the songs that have been released
18:58:41 <atriq> What's it like?
18:58:46 <kmc> apparently they are now enamored with dubstep
18:58:57 <kmc> it's like... dubstep and electro-pop
18:59:02 <kmc> very different from their usual stuff
18:59:08 <atriq> ...that's the 2nd law
18:59:12 <olsner> everything is dubstep nowadays
18:59:13 <kmc> but it's still IM too
18:59:14 <kmc> haha
18:59:17 <kmc> i was afraid of that
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19:00:12 <atriq> Well, it's time to make some Muse/MSPA fan art
19:00:18 <atriq> MusePA
19:02:22 <kmc> "A woman carrying her soon to be five-year-old son fell onto the Red Line tracks in Kendall Square Wednesday night, after she thought she was boarding a train that was stopped on the opposite track."
19:13:28 <atriq> http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m982mvEFm91rysy5go1_500.jpg
19:13:33 <atriq> Muse/MSPA art
19:14:19 <atriq> Even for here, that may be really off-topic
19:14:41 <kmc> i don't think that's possible
19:15:14 <olsner> atriq: what is that, it's completely unreadable
19:15:45 <atriq> All natural and technological processes proceed in such a way that the availability of the remaining energy decreases.
19:15:45 <atriq> In all energy exchanges, if no energy enters or leaves an isolated system, the entropy of that system increases.
19:15:45 <atriq> Energy continuously flows from being concentrated, to becoming dispersed, spread out, wasted and useless.
19:15:45 <atriq> New energy cannot be created and high grade energy is being destroyed. An economy based on endless growth is
19:15:55 <atriq> UNSUTSAINABBLE
19:16:48 <atriq> (words from http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EF_xdvn52As )
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19:17:05 <atriq> Except I spelt "Useless" wrong
19:17:10 <atriq> It's a sign
19:18:17 <olsner> is spelt spelt/spelled spelled or spelt?
19:18:41 <atriq> spelt is spelt spelt or spelled
19:18:50 <atriq> spelt is only really found in the UK
19:19:20 <fizzie> Splet.
19:19:29 <kmc> spelt is a type of flour
19:20:56 <olsner> oh, that spelt is also spelt spelt in english?
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19:21:30 <atriq> Presumably
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19:36:10 <atriq> Oh dear god that's got 4 notes on tumblr
19:36:23 <atriq> That's like twice as many notes as anything I've ever done before
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19:39:21 <oerjan> `welcome mjv
19:39:32 <HackEgo> mjv: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
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19:43:53 <oerjan> <Phantom_Hoover> Then you rapidly realise that a lot of it is dreck that's either formulaic or written by people who don't get lasting horror.
19:44:10 <oerjan> your quest now is to turn _that_ into an scp somehow.
19:45:18 <oerjan> "PatrickRobotham"?
19:45:47 <atriq> Obviously a robot from Hexham called Patrick
19:45:57 <oerjan> clearly.
19:48:02 <oerjan> no, windows, it is _not_ acceptable to delay raising windows in order to trick me into clicking somewhere i never intended to.
19:48:26 <atriq> The Telegraph website gets me like that EVERY TIME
19:48:39 <atriq> Took me ages to get to the page for World NEws
19:48:45 <atriq> I don't care about its cookie policy
19:49:18 <zzo38> Use keyboard and/or adjust the setting of Windows?
19:51:15 <oerjan> zzo38: i have no idea what setting that would be. the machine was close to thrashing.
19:53:55 <oerjan> this time it wasn't a particular website. although the web newspapers sometimes get me that way - i need to click somewhere in the window in order to focus so scrolling works, but *poof* then suddenly there's something clickable there.
19:54:55 <oerjan> i've noticed that annoyingly for wikia i need to click on the scrollbar instead, clicking in the window itself _disables_ scrolling.
19:54:56 <zzo38> Push ALT+TAB or click the title? I think Windows does have a secret setting for hover focus too, like some UNIX systems have.
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19:55:52 <oerjan> zzo38: i guess ALT+TAB would have worked in this particular case.
19:58:54 <oerjan> <Phantom_Hoover> I scare *incredibly* easily. <-- i should point and laugh but i remember for _years_ after jurassic park came out i couldn't walk close to the neighborhood park without imagining dinosaurs watching me :P
20:00:11 <zzo38> I found someone made .NSF simulating the THX deep note using VRC6 and Namco expansions.
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20:13:28 <atriq> Hey, a 502 error
20:13:33 <atriq> Have I seen one of those before?
20:23:55 <FreeFull> zzo38: Yeah, I heard it
20:32:50 <FreeFull> atriq: Many times
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21:04:53 <kmc> shachaf: are you CTFing still?
21:04:53 -!- nooga has joined.
21:04:58 <kmc> what level are you on?
21:05:47 <shachaf> kmc: I left it off after finishing 6 yesterday. Haven't gotten back to it yet.
21:06:00 * shachaf has some other things to do but plans to finish it.
21:06:10 <kmc> cool
21:06:14 <shachaf> Looks like you haven't finished it either?
21:06:17 <kmc> yeah
21:06:20 -!- atriq has quit (Quit: Leaving).
21:06:26 <kmc> i got to the last level last night, then took a break
21:06:28 <kmc> now i'm back at it
21:06:31 <shachaf> I gather that level 8 is tricky.
21:06:41 <kmc> it is
21:07:03 <shachaf> I think this CTF is harder than the last one.
21:07:13 <kmc> it certainly aligns less with things i already know
21:07:36 <shachaf> I tried to run mosh-server on level02 but didn't manage it.
21:08:00 <shachaf> I ended up settling for sending command via HTTP.
21:08:15 <shachaf> Did you know mosh doesn't run when it can't read /etc/passwd?
21:08:45 <kmc> level 7 is quite fun :)
21:08:55 <kmc> there's an easier way to get a shell on level2
21:08:58 <kmc> do you want me to tell you?
21:09:12 <kmc> shachaf: I did know that, because you said it in #mosh earlier :)
21:09:17 <shachaf> Is a shell on level02 needed on either level 7 or level 8?
21:09:20 <shachaf> Oh, good point.
21:09:27 <shachaf> If it is then you shouldn't tell me.
21:09:35 <shachaf> Hmm.
21:09:41 <shachaf> But now you can't even tell me whether you can tell me.
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21:15:08 <shachaf> Oh, there's an ssh server running.
21:16:49 <shachaf> But generating and uploading a key doesn't seem to work...
21:17:02 <lexande> shachaf: what kind of CTF?
21:17:07 <shachaf> lexande: stripe-ctf.com
21:17:13 <lexande> oh that exists again
21:17:14 <lexande> nice
21:17:22 <shachaf> It's a new one.
21:18:28 * shachaf wonders whether ssh supports login with uid instead of username.
21:19:12 <shachaf> Looks like it doesn't.
21:19:20 <shachaf> Oh, my username is my home directory's name.
21:19:28 <shachaf> kmc: I guess you pretty much did tell me.
21:20:06 <shachaf> kmc: I'm surprised there's no easy-to-download "standalone telnet server" or something, though.
21:20:10 <kmc> well you can already run arbitrary code on the box through php
21:20:21 <oklopol> which game?
21:20:23 <kmc> shachaf: every black hat has one lying around
21:20:36 <kmc> maybe just a copy of netcat that supports "-e" and is compiled static
21:20:44 <shachaf> Sure.
21:21:00 <shachaf> I compiled mosh-server with -static to upload it.
21:21:14 <shachaf> Then I thought maybe that got messed up so I uploaded all its dynamic libraries.
21:21:14 <zzo38> Can Checkout programs be compiled to hardware?
21:23:41 <shachaf> Anyway now I have a shell, but I'll get back to this later.
21:24:25 <zzo38> Can Checkout programs be compiled to: LLVM, some open-source GPU architectures, some GPU with open specification, VHDL, or some custom CPU/GPU architecture specifically designed for Checout?
21:24:52 <shachaf> There is not way that Checkout programs can be compiled to some cusom CPU/GPU architecture specifically designed for Checkout.
21:24:58 <shachaf> s/t//
21:27:31 -!- lexande has left.
21:29:38 <shachaf> Looks like we lost lexande.
21:32:44 -!- boily has changed nick to lexande-ersatz.
21:32:55 <lexande-ersatz> I can temporarily impersonate him...
21:33:44 <oerjan> zzo38: you probably should ask ais523 that. he's not here now, but checkout is his language and he _is_ an expert on compilation to hardware...
21:33:58 <zzo38> OK
21:35:42 <shachaf> kmc: Only four more spaces open in the top-20 list!
21:36:20 <kmc> ;P
21:36:28 <kmc> i'm not sure i'm happy about this leaderboard
21:40:37 <shachaf> The way it works or its existence?
21:40:55 <kmc> existence
21:41:17 * shachaf usually ignores leaderboards like that.
21:41:57 <kmc> it takes willpower to do that
21:41:58 <kmc> for me
21:42:13 <oerjan> <atriq> The "except this" is now isolated :( <-- *MWAHAHAHA*
21:42:24 <shachaf> That's true.
21:42:30 <oerjan> why is he not here to listen to my gloating
21:42:53 <shachaf> kmc: As you may know, I don't even own a television.
21:43:06 <fizzie> This new CTF thing is very webby; though I suppose that's what they said it was going to be. (Went to level 4, then got sidetracked to do other things.)
21:43:31 <shachaf> But sometimes at public places with televisions in them, I suddenly notice that I've been staring at a screen for the last 20 seconds.
21:43:40 <shachaf> It's a strange feeling. I don't even realize what I was looking at.
21:43:47 <fizzie> I've never even heard of all these Sinatras and whatnots.
21:44:14 <kmc> i'm happy with it being web stuff
21:44:16 <oerjan> you have all been staring at a screen for _much_ more than 20 seconds. *MWAHAHAHA* oh wait...
21:44:29 <kmc> because it's an opportunity to learn different things
21:44:37 <shachaf> oerjan: It's totally not the same!
21:44:48 <oerjan> NOW THE DENIAL
21:44:56 * shachaf notes that he's currently not making progress with either the CTF or the other things he was going to do.
21:44:58 <kmc> nothing they do is deeply dependant on arcane knowledge of a particular language or framework
21:45:17 <shachaf> Except JavaScript, maybe.
21:45:32 <kmc> i don't think you need *arcane* knowledge of javascript
21:45:55 <kmc> i think you need to know the very basics and to be comfortable poking around in "Inspect Element" or such
21:45:55 <shachaf> Perhaps not.
21:46:02 <kmc> i guess that's spoilers?
21:46:09 <shachaf> That's spoilers?
21:46:14 <shachaf> I can't even tell which level it's for.
21:46:27 <fizzie> It spoiled the fact that there's going to be some JavaScript. I haven't seen any, I don't think.
21:46:47 -!- lexande-ersatz has changed nick to boily.
21:46:47 <kmc> well i implied that you don't need to know subtle details of javascript
21:46:52 <kmc> which narrows down where one might look for hax
21:48:13 <shachaf> For the level with the regexp, I was trying to figure out a way to match against the program's own code in the git repository.
21:48:23 <shachaf> I wonder whether that's spoilers. At any rate it didn't work because git compresses things. :-(
21:48:25 <kmc> haha
21:48:28 <shachaf> (And it's a bare repository.)
21:48:50 <shachaf> But the line checking for the regexp actually does match the regexp.
21:49:04 * kmc mind = blown
21:49:30 <kmc> can you write a regex which matches only itself?
21:53:22 <FreeFull> That sounds like a challenge
21:53:38 <FreeFull> How about an empty regex
21:53:51 <oerjan> ooh a narcissist regex
21:53:54 <kmc> will match any line
21:54:00 <kmc> (that's the interpretation of "match" i'm taking)
21:54:10 <kmc> otherwise it's easy, any regex containing only literal characters (letters etc) would do
21:54:47 <FreeFull> Then a regexp containing the letter a
21:54:58 <FreeFull> Actually
21:55:03 <kmc> will match any line containing the letter a
21:55:05 <kmc> (that's the interpretation of "match" i'm taking)
21:55:06 <FreeFull> Hmm
21:55:14 <FreeFull> This is tricky
21:55:25 <oerjan> you need ^ and $ or something equivalent
21:55:32 <FreeFull> You basically have to make a regexp quine
21:55:42 <FreeFull> ^$ matches an empty line
21:55:56 <oerjan> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Narcissist
21:56:13 <oerjan> narcissists tend to be quine-like
21:56:20 <FreeFull> ^^$$ matches a line with ^$ on it
21:56:48 <oerjan> FreeFull: you need to handle escaping i think
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21:56:55 <oerjan> which makes things much harder
21:57:18 <FreeFull> oerjan: You don't need to escape ^ or $ if they aren't at the start or end of the regex
21:57:28 <oerjan> you don't? hm.
21:57:50 <FreeFull> Or at least, there is something that makes ^^$$ work as intended
21:58:16 <oerjan> i guess that may be connected with the single-line/multi-line options (in perl)
21:58:43 <FreeFull> Maybe it's that you don't need to escape ^ or $ if you have them elsewhere in their real meanings
22:00:35 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.).
22:00:41 <FreeFull> Ok, this is tricky
22:02:18 -!- zzo38 has quit (Quit: zzo38).
22:05:52 <FreeFull> Unless there is a way of embedding a literal representation of the regex inside the regex
22:05:59 <FreeFull> It might be impossible
22:06:47 <kmc> it's almost certainly possible with perl's crazy extended "reg"exes
22:08:37 <FreeFull> http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~jas/toys/inequ.html Looks like we aren't the only ones at it
22:12:42 <fizzie> FreeFull: Perl at least has no special magic about ^ matching a literal "^" if it's not the first thing. E.g. /^^foo/ matches 'foobar', doesn't match '^foobar'.
22:14:04 <FreeFull> grep does
22:14:35 <fizzie> !perl print join(" ", map { /^^foo/ ? "$_:yes" : "$_:no" } ("foobar", "^foobar"));
22:14:36 <EgoBot> foobar:yes ^foobar:no
22:15:11 <FreeFull> `echo '^foobar' | grep '^^foo'`
22:15:11 <FreeFull> ^foobar
22:15:14 <fizzie> So it seems. Fancy that.
22:15:15 <HackEgo> ​'^foobar' | grep '^^foo'`
22:15:24 <oerjan> huh, inequ is another name for narcissist then
22:15:34 <FreeFull> Lol at HackEgo
22:16:02 <fizzie> `run echo '^foobar' | grep '^^foo'
22:16:05 <HackEgo> ​^foobar
22:16:08 <fizzie> Anyway.
22:16:42 <fizzie> `run echo -e 'foobar\n^foobar' | grep -E '^^foo'
22:16:45 <HackEgo> foobar
22:16:58 <fizzie> It's different with extended RE.
22:18:53 <FreeFull> I see, so egrep
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22:22:33 <kmc> shachaf: aww, I won't be in the top 20
22:26:54 <shachaf> kmc: Now you get to practice not caring about leaderboards!
22:27:01 <shachaf> I bet the leaderboard was sour anyway.
22:27:16 <kmc> i don't get it
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22:29:09 <shachaf> The second thing was a joke about sour grapes. I know you said you didn't like the leaderboard even before -- it wasn't making fun of you in particular.
22:30:40 * shachaf sighs.
22:32:02 <Sgeo> Which community is more likely to want to play with monads, the Clojure community or the Common Lisp community
22:32:13 <FreeFull> grour sapes
22:32:37 <kmc> which community is more likely to want to play with themselves
22:32:49 <kmc> what's the connection to grapes?
22:33:13 <FreeFull> What's the hgronnection to capes?
22:33:31 * Sgeo kind of thinks that Clojure is a better language except for lack of CLOS and condition system
22:33:47 <shachaf> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sour_grapes
22:34:06 <FreeFull> That daemn esop
22:34:18 <kmc> what does it have to do with leaderboards
22:34:31 <shachaf> :-(
22:34:39 <kmc> idgi
22:34:53 <oerjan> itt: we discover kmc doesn't understand fables and proverbs
22:35:13 <kmc> whatever
22:35:16 <FreeFull> Hith wis fabcy fanles
22:35:37 <oerjan> also that FreeFull cannot spel
22:35:53 <Sgeo> I was on a leaderboard thing once
22:36:01 <FreeFull> C ian jell spust efin
22:36:33 <FreeFull> aat whre tou yalking tabou
22:36:43 <Sgeo> I don't think I can prove it :(
22:37:10 <FreeFull> Sgeo: You can.. with trime tavel!
22:37:45 <Sgeo> I can't even prove a connection between YouOS and myself
22:37:51 <Sgeo> And I think all my code is gone for good
22:38:21 <Sgeo> Dear Google: Not iOS. YouOS.
22:40:14 <FreeFull> That's why you "" everything
22:41:11 <Sgeo> The only actual connection that I get when I google "YouOS" "Sgeo" is a log of me in a Java chatroom mentioning it
22:41:17 <Sgeo> Which makes little to no sense.
22:41:36 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
22:42:07 <Sgeo> http://echelog.com/logs/browse/java/1271368800
22:42:42 <Sgeo> Oh, context was someone talking about an OS in Java, and OSes that aren't really OSes and me mentioning a project with OS in its name that's not really an OS.
22:47:39 <kmc> bah, i beat level 8 but the web interface won't take my password
22:48:03 <fizzie> "You completed this level in -34914.789 seconds." That's... unlikely.
22:48:13 <fizzie> The others show reasonable (nonnegative) numbers.
22:48:21 <kmc> and the stripe ctf channel is full of "HALP HOW 2 SOLVE LVL 1" so i can't get the attention of admins
22:49:06 <FreeFull> lvl 1? They got past lvl 0?
22:49:28 <kmc> some of them
22:50:06 -!- monqy has joined.
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22:52:54 <Sgeo> What game is this?
22:53:19 <kmc> https://stripe-ctf.com
22:55:18 <Sgeo> I have stuff I should be doing today
22:55:34 <kmc> like endlessly contemplating whether clojure is better than common lisp?
22:55:34 <Sgeo> Working on a sellable product in SL and repairing my IRC bot
22:56:27 <Sgeo> Maybe I should make a Lisp that compiles to LSL
23:01:01 <Sgeo> kmc, I don't like being timed
23:01:55 -!- zzo38 has joined.
23:05:17 <Sgeo> kmc, this is fun
23:06:45 <kmc> yep
23:07:27 <kmc> i wonder if it's the same shirt as last time
23:09:23 <shachaf> That was a somewhat low-quality shirt.
23:09:29 <shachaf> The regular Stripe shirts are much nicer.
23:09:42 <shachaf> On the other hand they make people think I work at Stripe.
23:09:55 * shachaf doesn't like shirts with text.
23:10:11 <zzo38> Can you somehow remove the text?
23:10:23 <Sgeo> Is Stripe CTF a finite duration thing?
23:10:28 <Sgeo> Or will it be open for a while/
23:10:30 <shachaf> Yes, one week.
23:10:38 -!- derdon has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
23:11:20 <kmc> one week from noon yesterday PDT
23:12:06 <ion> <kmc> i wonder if it's the same shit as last time <shachaf> That was a somewhat low-quality shit. <shachaf> The regular Stripe shits are much nicer. * shachaf doesn't like shits with text. <zzo38> Can you somehow remove the text?
23:12:06 * Sgeo will play more later, I'm a bit stumped, there's an obvious looking area here but it looks secure
23:12:37 <kmc> ion: is there like a simulacrum of #esoteric which lives inside your head?
23:12:45 <kmc> that would be frightening
23:12:56 <ion> Yes, a poo simulacrum.
23:13:04 <kmc> i mean it's one thing to be crazy but it's another thing to have a bunch of voices in your head who are themselves crazy
23:13:18 <FreeFull> THE GREAT BIG POO
23:13:31 <FreeFull> I mean
23:13:36 <FreeFull> THE GREAT MIGHTY POO
23:13:36 * kmc had a high quality shit while solving the ctf
23:13:52 <shachaf> kmc: If sane voices make you crazy, crazy voices must make you sane.
23:14:24 <kmc> i'm sure that's how it works
23:15:17 <ion> kmc: That’s just the crazy talking.
23:15:41 <kmc> are timezone acronyms like PDT useful?
23:15:46 <kmc> the US ones are pretty useful
23:15:57 <kmc> but is it the case that (e.g.) all points in EEST switch to EET on the same date?
23:16:05 <kmc> i think this was not the case before the 90's anyway
23:16:10 <oerjan> kmc: hey i'm _not_ crazy, it's just all these crazy voices confusing me all the time
23:16:15 <zzo38> I don't know.
23:16:30 <zzo38> oerjan: Are you sure you are not crazy?
23:16:33 <kmc> pax bruxellana
23:16:49 * shachaf prefers just "PT"
23:16:57 <oerjan> zzo38: The voices tell me I'm not.
23:17:00 <zzo38> What does "EEST", "EET" means?
23:17:11 <kmc> zzo38: Eastern European (Summer)? Time
23:17:27 <zzo38> OK.
23:17:35 <kmc> confusingly 'S' means DST in most of the world and not-DST in the USA
23:17:38 <oerjan> Eesti time
23:17:42 <kmc> yes!
23:17:44 <zzo38> I don't like daylight saving time and summer time
23:17:50 <kmc> it is eesti time
23:18:03 <kmc> i had some other pun involving C'EST
23:18:13 <kmc> why not zzo38?
23:18:15 <FreeFull> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0w5neFPat1w
23:18:28 <FreeFull> BST
23:18:33 <FreeFull> Means british summer time
23:18:43 <kmc> yes that is a fact
23:19:02 <kmc> they used to have double summer time too
23:19:25 <zzo38> I think you should use solar time and UTC, and then also use Italian hours and/or astrological houses if you need sunset time as well
23:19:28 <oerjan> that is clearly absurd, as it would imply the brits have summers
23:20:08 <kmc> also britain was on GMT+1 for all of 1969 and 1970
23:21:10 -!- copumpkin has changed nick to pirateat28.
23:23:56 <kmc> but in reality the universe was created in the afternoon (UTC) of Sunday, August 17, 1969
23:24:34 <kmc> and will be destroyed in 9661 after a false alarm in 1996
23:25:13 -!- pirateat28 has changed nick to copumpkin.
23:26:12 <zzo38> Sun-Neptune has a close opposition of ecliptic longitude at this time.
23:27:13 <Sgeo> Is regex really that terrible for web page processing in all circumstances?
23:27:34 <ion> The destruction date of the universe doesn’t matter to us that much after the 2012 destruction of the Earth.
23:27:39 <zzo38> I think regex can be used for web page processing.
23:28:04 <kmc> esr agrees
23:28:46 -!- SimonRC has quit (*.net *.split).
23:28:47 <zzo38> Are you sure the 2012 destruction of Earth? How will they get destroyed? Atom bomb?
23:28:49 <ion> Is XML really that terrible for video processing in all circumstances? I think XML can be used for video processing.
23:29:01 <kmc> ion: come on, we still have a few months to assemble a project orion generation ship
23:29:05 <zzo38> I wouldn't think XML would be good for video processing, though.
23:29:12 <FreeFull> zzo38: Will collide with an antiearth
23:29:30 <kmc> Earth cancelled due to lack of ratings
23:29:32 <zzo38> What antiearth?
23:29:57 <ion> There’s only one. That one.
23:30:24 <zzo38> Even if there is only one (assuming there is even one), I still don't know which one it is.
23:31:22 <oerjan> kmc: wasn't that a plot of some tv series
23:32:42 -!- SimonRC has joined.
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23:33:23 <oerjan> *tv cartoon series
23:35:29 <Gregor> YOU GUYS YOU GUYS https://bitbucket.org/GregorR/sysv-dev
23:35:46 * Sgeo is not a dinosaur. Or a pony.
23:36:00 <Sgeo> I assume that Gregor is a dinopony.
23:36:51 <oerjan> hm south park it seems
23:39:01 <kmc> Gregor: nice
23:39:27 <kmc> zzo38: I did a bunch of video editing with shell scripts that invoked netpnm on individual frames
23:39:30 <kmc> no xml though
23:40:44 <Sgeo> Does Common Lisp make more sense for video editing than Clojure, for performance reasons?
23:40:50 <Sgeo> Not that I plan to do video editing
23:42:18 <kmc> -_-
23:42:33 <kmc> oh Sgeo you so silly
23:42:35 <zzo38> kmc: Yes video editing can be done with shell scripts although invoking a program on each frame would seem to be slow. Parallel computing might be better way.
23:42:44 -!- elliott has joined.
23:42:47 <kmc> yes
23:42:48 <elliott> guys, i was planning on doing some video editing
23:42:54 <elliott> do you have any suggestions as to which lisp dialect i should use
23:43:03 <kmc> at the time I had like the only SMP machine among my friends
23:43:06 <kmc> those were the days
23:43:07 <zzo38> But I may modify pictures using ImageMagick.
23:43:22 <oerjan> SYNCHRONICITY
23:43:27 <shachaf> kmc: Hey, you finished it.
23:43:31 <kmc> yep
23:43:38 <zzo38> What about synchronicity?
23:43:43 <kmc> it was a dual socket single-core-Opteron machine
23:43:48 <kmc> those were the days
23:43:58 * shachaf will continue soon.
23:44:00 <oerjan> ...some day i'll snap and ban zzo38 for ruining my bad jokes
23:44:17 <kmc> later we found an even older SMP machine lying around
23:44:46 <kmc> it had four Pentium Pro chips
23:44:49 <elliott> you're all useless
23:44:51 <monqy> oerjan: zzo's already a hero but then he'll be a martyr
23:44:59 <monqy> is this what you want
23:45:00 <Sgeo> elliott, a hybrid of newLisp and Arc.
23:45:03 <oerjan> monqy: ok good argument
23:45:05 <elliott> Sgeo: thx
23:45:06 -!- elliott has left ("Leaving").
23:45:11 <kmc> and 1 GB of RAM on several cards, each the size of a modern PC motherboard
23:45:40 <Sgeo> I wonder what he would have said if I said something that wasn't a Lisp dialect
23:45:44 <Sgeo> Darn
23:45:45 <kmc> and it was the size of a refridgerator
23:45:57 <kmc> and i left it in a common area, which caused some annoyance to others
23:46:04 <Sgeo> Although I assume he can still read this
23:46:09 <kmc> i believe the exact threat was "if you do not move that computer, i will open up the case and take a shit inside"
23:47:34 <oerjan> how civilized
23:48:09 <kmc> yes
23:48:28 <kmc> pentium bros before pentium pros
23:48:54 <kmc> the student computing club also had some pre-release Itanium boxes which were even shittier than regular Itanium boxes
23:49:06 <kmc> they had some CPU bugs and were never properly supported by GCC
23:49:15 <kmc> i think they kept these as a way of hazing new sysadmins
23:49:22 <shachaf> Is Itanium that terrible?
23:49:37 <FreeFull> Avoid anything with CPU bugs
23:49:38 <Phantom_Hoover> shachaf, it's really hard to write compilers for I hear?
23:49:46 <FreeFull> Hardware bugs are nast
23:49:49 <FreeFull> nasty
23:49:51 <kmc> yeah, what Phantom_Hoover said
23:50:04 <kmc> to get good performance you have to pay intel for their crazy compiler
23:50:08 <kmc> though it might be free for academia
23:50:13 <FreeFull> Write everything in assembly!
23:50:19 <shachaf> What makes it so hard to write compilers for?
23:50:27 <shachaf> Is it something fundamental about the architecture?
23:50:33 <kmc> shachaf: the instruction stream contains hints about parallelism
23:50:41 <kmc> the sort of things a normal CPU figures out on the fly
23:50:49 <kmc> and it turns out, doing this on the fly is easier because you have more information
23:50:52 <FreeFull> Well, parallelism is hard
23:51:16 <kmc> you don't just write a sequence of instructions, you write a sequence of instruction *groups*, where each group happens in parallel
23:51:19 <kmc> or something
23:51:27 <kmc> read about it if you want to know the actual situation
23:51:35 <kmc> belongs to the VLIW class of architectures
23:51:41 <shachaf> Good point.
23:51:43 <kmc> which has (as a result?) fallen out of favor for general purpose architectures
23:51:48 <kmc> but is still popular for DSPs and such
23:52:23 <kmc> Itanium was also used largely to emulate x86 and HP PA-RISC
23:52:29 <kmc> and it kinda sucked at these
23:53:51 <Sgeo> I feel like I'm guessing at this level (level 2)
23:53:54 <Sgeo> :/
23:53:54 <kmc> i think Intel is contractually obligated to keep making Itanium chips
23:54:04 <kmc> as a result of the deal with HP where it replaced PA-RISC
23:54:07 <kmc> that might be bullshit tho
23:54:09 <kmc> Sgeo: want a hint?
23:54:17 <Sgeo> kmc, ok, sure
23:54:31 <Sgeo> >.>
23:54:37 <kmc> well, what do you have so far
23:54:40 <kmc> (feel free to PM)
23:54:44 <kmc> (i think we want to avoid spoilers here)
23:54:48 <shachaf> We do?
23:54:54 <kmc> oh maybe not
23:54:57 <kmc> whatevs
23:54:57 <shachaf> I don't think other people in here are doing it.
23:55:01 <shachaf> Maybe they will later, though.
23:55:07 <kmc> except you and me, but we're past level 2
23:55:10 <shachaf> Avoid spoilers for ≥7 :-)
23:56:52 <shachaf> Level 3 was much easier than level 2.
23:58:48 <kmc> i found it difficult for two
23:58:49 <kmc> reasons
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