00:00:46 -!- newsham has left. 00:00:49 -!- Braber01 has joined. 00:01:01 `welcome Braber01 00:01:05 what does a contrast spec like "DC 2,000,000:1 (1000:1)" even mean? 00:01:06 Braber01: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 00:01:13 does it mean "here is a made up number and the real contrast is 1000:1" 00:01:19 Are All brainfuck interperters Diffret? I think I might be reading the Table wrong too. 00:01:27 oerjan: "We accurately display both the brightness of 0k and the sun!" 00:01:28 Uh 00:01:33 *Diffrent 00:01:44 That ratio would involve dividing by 0. 00:01:44 Braber01: which table? 00:02:02 ASCII table that's the one i need to use right? 00:02:12 Phantom_Hoover: Yes, yes it would. :D 00:02:28 Braber01: please give a link 00:02:34 Phantom_Hoover: Hence why I named only the smallest and largest points in the range, not the ratio. 00:02:35 Braber01: I do not understand what you mean 00:02:43 -!- elliott has joined. 00:02:44 http://duckduckgo.com/?t=lm&q=ASCII+table this. 00:02:47 Use the ASCII table for what purpose? 00:02:51 X 00:02:57 The sun is the hottest a blackbody can go? 00:03:17 to find the decimal value of a letter 00:03:23 Braber01: That ASCII table is OK, yes. 00:03:25 -!- Braber01 has changed nick to BraberAFK. 00:03:26 Braber01: ASCII table? I don't know the context, but you should have basically ~no use for one of those in 2012. 00:03:30 Brainfuck does normally use ASCII. 00:03:37 elliott: uh 00:03:38 disagree 00:03:50 Huh? No, brainfuck deals in 8-bit-binary-except-you-can't-input-the-NUL-byte. 00:04:17 kmc: Well, rephrase: "if you think you want an ASCII table, there's a very high probability you're wrong; if you're not wrong, then you probably don't need to ask any questions about it, or whatever". 00:04:27 Actually you can input the NUL byte, but there isn't a way to distinguish EOF from whatever value is used for indicating EOF. 00:04:28 Except for greater-than-8-bit Brainfuck, which instead deals in nobody-implements-that. :) 00:04:33 kmc: Double rephrase: in an ideal world, you'd have no use for one. :( 00:04:35 elliott: i mean, i use "man ascii" pretty often 00:04:54 elliott, wait, how else are you meant to get a quick reference for ASCII? 00:05:02 elliott: visiting #esoteric? what's the occasion 00:05:06 kmc: Well, OK. But presumably in the context of using it as a subset-of-Unicode table. (Can we have "man unicodetable"?) 00:05:09 if you want to call it a table of the first 128 Unicode characters and their UTF-8 encodings, rather than an ASCII table, sure 00:05:10 monqy: party. 00:05:24 I prefer ASCII. 00:05:24 Phantom_Hoover: It's the "ASCII" bit that's the problem. 00:05:34 no but you can have "man iso-8859-1" :( 00:05:49 16-bit Brainfuck works decently if you let EOF=-1 and read bytes, for instance... 00:06:04 Some Brainfuck programs will even work there. 00:06:06 16-bit brainfuck is ugly. So is EOF-as-0 brainfuck. So is EOF-as-unchanging brainfuck. 00:06:14 Spoiler: there is no non-ugly brainfuck IO scheme!! 00:06:27 i stick to ASCII so that i can use ISO 2022 to map line drawing characters into the upper half of byte space 00:06:30 (But just use 8-bit-and-EOF-as-0, because everyone else does, except for the people who don't, but they're wrong.) 00:06:35 Though none that I write; if I'm doing Brainfuck, I'm using the mod-2^8-1 arithmetic for all it's worth. >:D 00:06:36 pikhq_: Yes that does work. And, if the input is known 7-bit ASCII and using 8-bit cells then you could use 255 for EOF. 00:06:49 But the input might not be 7-bit ASCII, it might be 8-bit input instead. 00:06:53 kmc: man iso-8859-1 upsets me. 00:06:55 -!- Nisstyre_ has joined. 00:07:03 kmc: It doesn't even have a deprecation warning or a BUGS section. 00:07:20 obviously you should use 0x03 or 0x04 for EOF 00:07:32 BraberAFK: brainfuck doesn't really care about character codes, it just uses binary except for that EOF problem. for example the brainfuck bots in this channel should work best if you use utf-8, since that's the recommended character set for this irc channel. 00:07:53 Yes you could use the end of transmission code just to indicate the end of transmission if your input only has one transmission. 00:07:56 oerjan: Hey, can you use your wiki admin powers to block cpressey for reminding me of the featured language thing? 00:08:00 ^bf ,[.,]!Tëstung 00:08:01 Tëstung 00:08:06 -!- BraberAFK has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 00:08:17 elliott: sure, sure, as soon as i get them 00:08:22 oerjan: OK, done. 00:08:28 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Special:Block/Chris_Pressey 00:08:30 Go for it! 00:09:50 I don't really like ISO 8859-1; I prefer CP437. 00:10:20 Where did newsham go? 00:10:29 I was told there was newsham. 00:10:59 kmc doesn't count, he's just an old sham. 00:11:04 I think there seem to be some problem using CP437 with Linux, but I made up a program to allow the full CP437 character set used with Linux, in addition to the shift-in/shift-out codes also work 00:11:06 kmc: (the joke is you are old) 00:11:08 -_- 00:11:12 elliott: gosh darn it there seems to be a bug preventing me. 00:11:25 oerjan: Huh. I'm going to block you for exploiting a bug, then. 00:11:40 zzo38: in the Linux VT? 00:11:43 how does this program work? 00:11:44 block mauriceling too 00:11:54 zzo38: Well, I suppose if you're going to use an 8-bit encoding, you might as well use the classic one. :P 00:11:55 apparently newsham left 00:12:03 i didn't know he was even here 00:12:13 but then how could he have left 00:12:35 kmc: Yes. The program works by loading stuff using the character encoding files, setting environment variables, and setting escape codes. 00:12:37 monqy: that's a really good poem 00:12:55 It's almost a haiku. 00:13:00 kmc: Do you know Rust? 00:13:06 `quote beautiful summer 00:13:09 471) beautiful summer / fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck / fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck 00:13:25 sadly "iconv -f cp437" does not have the graphical renderings for 0x00 - 0x1F 00:13:32 elliott: no, but i've looked through the language docs here and there 00:13:46 kmc: I know; but my program fixes that so that you can use all of the graphical renderings. 00:13:52 zzo38: I guess there is an ioctl() to set the console font? 00:13:56 kmc: That's what "know" means, silly. 00:14:05 monqy: remember when you said funny things like that 00:14:10 :') 00:14:33 kmc: Maybe there is; I don't know. I am using a shell script (it must be loaded with . rather than as an executable file). 00:15:06 http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/backup/load_mzx_ascii http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/backup/newunimap.1 00:15:22 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Ragaraja 00:15:28 OK this is worse than I remember. 00:15:36 what do the escape codes do? 00:15:42 It's, like, the Platonic worst Brainfuck derivative. 00:15:52 kmc: Read the manual page 00:16:57 You will also need the file called "mzx_ascii.chr", you can get it in http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/mzx1/mzx_extended/megazeux_src.zip do a list before extracting it to find the directory it is in and extract the single file called "mzx_ascii.chr" from there. 00:17:07 kmc: Anyway, tell me about Rust. 00:17:12 I mean, if you want to. 00:17:27 i remember glancing at the rust docs 00:17:28 The file "mzx_ascii.chr" appears to be in the root directory of the archive. 00:17:32 I don't rmeember anything about the rust docs 00:17:38 just that i glanced at them 00:17:47 Phantom_Hoover: it reminds me a bit of NSQX 00:18:26 I know, but I don't think even he stooped this low. 00:18:35 and his Unicode edits 00:18:35 excuse me, NSQX was an artist 00:18:44 It's the ultimate in heaping worthless bloat onto Brainfuck. 00:18:45 uniCode "at least it's not a brainfuck derivative" 00:18:54 `pastlog no quality any ?more 00:19:25 2012-04-10.txt:11:55:58: * NSQX thinks there is no quality anymore 00:19:45 See? 00:19:49 O KAY 00:19:49 He knows the pain of bad esolangs. 00:20:34 elliott, do i have administrative permission to make snide comments on mauriceling's talk page 00:21:00 -!- BraberAFK has joined. 00:21:22 Phantom_Hoover: no. 00:22:15 dammit man 00:22:31 wait didn't you already make some 00:23:27 As it turns out that was on his mainspace article's talk page. 00:23:34 So now I just feel stupid. 00:24:21 @type foldr 00:24:22 forall a b. (a -> b -> b) -> b -> [a] -> b 00:24:23 @type foldl 00:24:24 forall a b. (a -> b -> a) -> a -> [b] -> a 00:24:34 Phantom_Hoover: actually the snide comment on Talk:Ragaraja is ehird's 00:24:53 That was from when it was a giant empty table though. 00:25:05 THEN IT GOT WORSE 00:25:27 kmc: :( 00:25:33 what? 00:26:01 I told you to tell me about Rust and then I said "if you want to" and now I'm frowning. 00:26:03 oerjan: That wasn't snide! 00:26:07 oerjan: I actually honestly had no idea if it was a joke or not. 00:26:08 sorry 00:26:12 you should just read the docs 00:26:14 oerjan: It had no commands at the time. 00:26:18 kmc: I know. :( 00:26:30 elliott: Ö'QUAY 00:27:09 kmc: But, you know, if you take "k", go five letters left on a QWERTY keyboard, press down, then go to "m", go up-right twice, press down, and then finally to go "c" and press it, and then press "s", you get "docs". 00:27:23 kmc: So I think by "read the docs" you mean "ask me". 00:27:36 -!- BraberAFK has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:27:46 argument by keyboard metric 00:29:12 -!- Braber01 has joined. 00:29:23 oerjan, O'Quay, the famed Irish docking dynasty. 00:29:43 Sorry about that One of the new interfaces in Linux isn't working well. 00:30:14 to make a loop in bf. you would do someting like +++++[+>+++++<-] right? 00:30:24 Braber01: i suddenly realize that your problem is probably not really the ASCII table, since even if it's slightly inaccurate you'd probably be able to work with it... 00:30:35 Braber01, yes. 00:30:50 Although that loop is infinite, you probably meant something else. 00:31:21 ^bf +[] 00:31:25 Phantom_Hoover: only with bignums 00:31:26 ...out of time! 00:31:46 ^bf +++++[+>+++++<-]>. 00:31:51 ...out of time! 00:32:00 oerjan, nope, the cell used for testing the loop is unchanged by the loop body. 00:32:03 yeah, I'm a little confused on the syntax for loops it's been a long time since I worked with brain*** 00:32:05 oh right 00:32:09 brainass 00:32:14 you can say "fuck" here 00:32:23 no you can't 00:32:24 fuck, you can? 00:32:26 no 00:32:33 ok fuck it then 00:32:34 stop saying fuck!!!!!!! 00:32:44 im so offended 00:32:47 im crying 00:32:51 look what you have done oerjan 00:32:53 I acually thought the language was called brainf*ck and the * was part of the language name :) 00:33:28 ok then, no one say fuck 00:33:58 Braber01, [whatever] means "if the current cell is not 0, execute whatever, then execute [whatever]". 00:34:09 i guess brainf*ck is better than brainfork, as i think some have called it (although that's a derivative too i think) 00:34:28 * Phantom_Hoover wonders if Branefuck is a thing. 00:34:38 It is not! 00:34:41 there is fuckyourbrane 00:34:44 `pastlog branefuck 00:34:45 IF ONLY I KNEW MORE STRING THEORY 00:34:51 isn't it fukyorbrane 00:34:52 No output. 00:35:10 elliott: seems so 00:35:11 i wish i was as cultured on brainfuck derivatives as elliott and oerjan 00:35:48 "Here's the current FYB scoreboard:" 00:35:59 one might wonder if that's up to date 00:36:07 I sure do 00:36:14 I guess it could be like you have a space of branes and you have instructions to alter their harmonics. 00:36:37 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 00:36:41 So go get the Ascii Char(68) that would be ++++++++>[+>++++++++<-]++++ ? 00:36:46 phantom hoover invents brainfuck derivative, world in shock 00:36:48 > map pred "gvdl" 00:36:49 "fuck" 00:36:53 Braber01, no. 00:37:03 Braber01: ASCII is irrelevant here 00:37:07 there's a diritive called fuckfuck 00:37:14 it just puts the number 68 on the tape (assuming the program is correct, I haven't looked at it) 00:37:29 ^bf ++++++++[->++++++++<]>++++. 00:37:29 D 00:37:33 Note that after executing the loop body the cell under the pointer remains unchanged. 00:37:36 > ord 'D' 00:37:37 68 00:37:39 oerjan's code is correct. 00:37:40 apparently it does put 68 on the tape 00:37:50 congratulations 00:38:00 YAY 00:38:15 !bf_txtgen YAY 00:38:20 ​49 +++++++++++[>++++++>++++++++>+><<<<-]>>+.<-.>.>-. [121] 00:38:33 ^bf +++++++++++[>++++++>++++++++>+><<<<-]>>+.<-.>. 00:38:33 YAY 00:38:49 ^bf +++++++++++[>++++++>++++++++><<<-]>>+.<-.>. 00:38:50 YAY 00:39:28 -!- copumpkin has joined. 00:39:38 YAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY 00:40:02 !bf_textgen YAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY 00:40:10 ^bf +++++++++++[>++++++>++++++++><<<-]>>+.<-......>........................ 00:40:10 YAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY 00:40:16 ^rainbow yay 00:40:16 yay 00:40:29 !bf_textgen YAY 00:40:45 -!- derdon has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:41:01 i shall recommend corect spalling 00:41:09 oh 00:41:11 !bf_txtgen YAY 00:41:14 ​59 +++++++++++++[>>+++++++>+++++><<<<-]>++.>--.>.<.<.++++++++. [240] 00:41:15 oerjan: you should op me btw 00:41:17 creat 00:41:24 ^bf +++++++++++++[>>+++++++>+++++><<<<-]>++.>--.>.<.<.++++++++. 00:41:25 YAY. 00:41:28 oerjan, also you should give Gregor voice 00:41:50 all those duties 00:42:03 no, just op me 00:42:06 that's your only duty 00:42:11 i bet even kmc supports 00:42:21 excellent, they're easier to ignore one by one 00:42:27 support elliott for op on condition he voices Gregor 00:42:49 support elliott for op on condition he doesn't use his powers to ban himself 00:42:57 !bf_txtgen ▁▂▃▄▅▆▇█ 00:42:58 monqy: I promise I won't. 00:43:00 I'm no lament. 00:43:00 ​284 +++++++++++++++[>+++++++++++++++>++++++++++>+++++++++>+++++++++++++++<<<<-]>+.>.>------.>+.<<.>+.<<.>.>+.<<.>.>+.<<.>.>+.>.<<.>+.>.<<.>+.>.<<.--------------.------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------. [639] 00:43:05 monqy: I won't even ban you! 00:43:07 I'm incredibly kind. 00:43:27 sounds like something a good op would say! 00:43:27 ^bf +++++++++++++++[>+++++++++++++++>++++++++++>+++++++++>+++++++++++++++<<<<-]>+.>.>------.>+.<<.>+.<<.>.>+.<<.>.>+.<<.>.>+.>.<<.>+.>.<<.>+.>.<<.--------------.------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------. 00:43:27 ▁▂▃▄▅▆▇█. 00:43:34 why does it put a dot at the end 00:43:49 for the newline 00:43:56 kmc: EgoBot includes the end of line, which fungot censors 00:43:57 ais523: you can op me too 00:43:58 oerjan: mr president, as we saw with some disquiet that the real problem. we have shown our capacity to manage change. our proposal builds extensively on the existing model? the problems this report raises the need to terminate the fnord term of office of the high level of human health protection in all member states have demonstrated unanimously and promptly, through mr guterres, we were under intense pressure. this is obvious 00:43:59 oerjan: the impressive number of projects in collaboration with all the consequences of enlargement, and, commissioner, ladies and gentlemen, today the sbarbati report which helps the elderly has been adopted with specific provision for ict within thematic budget lines would not, at the risk of not being particularly keen on, we would no longer be taken for the future. 00:44:03 ah 00:44:20 Okay both my bf interperters are showing me an L%, I'm using beef & bf I'm not sure I'm using the right numbers :( 00:44:20 ^style 00:44:21 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl* ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube 00:44:50 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Brainfuck_constants 00:45:01 ^style nethack 00:45:02 Selected style: nethack (NetHack 3.4.3 data.base, rumors.tru, rumors.fal) 00:45:04 fungot: hi 00:45:05 elliott: gunyoki: the two-headed giant, with a thick mixture of sportsman and collector, gentleman and world traveler, a panther. ( nightmare at 20,000 feet, mounted on shafts about four to five feet high at the foot of a neanderthal. its body around in such a tool is found on both its arms and feet. 00:45:08 ^style c64 00:45:09 Selected style: c64 (C64 programming material) 00:45:10 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o oerjan. 00:45:10 fungot: boop 00:45:10 elliott: the commodore 64 programmer's reference guide as a semicolon causes the program. 00:45:15 oh great it's time for me to be opped! 00:45:19 Stick a dot at the end of one of those. 00:45:20 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: +b *!*cheater@*.dip.t-dialin.net. 00:45:20 -!- oerjan has kicked cheater__ Ban evasion. 00:45:31 you pressed the wrong button!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 00:45:38 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -b *!*cheater@*.dip.t-dialin.net. 00:45:46 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: +b *!*cheater*@*.dip.t-dialin.net. 00:46:08 you could try $a:cheater. (that bans anyone identified with the nickserv account cheater) 00:46:14 ah 00:46:18 ^^^ kind of irc wisdom you'd expect from an OP, eh??? 00:46:30 shit is getting real in here 00:46:39 yes 00:46:42 yes 00:46:42 i think we should ban kmc next 00:46:44 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -b *!*cheater*@*.dip.t-dialin.net. 00:46:46 :x 00:47:01 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: +b $a:cheater. 00:47:03 -!- kinoSi has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:47:05 like that? 00:47:17 yes, IIRC 00:47:24 ban aloril 00:47:27 i haven't banned anyone for ages though!!! more reasons to op me 00:47:30 who even is aloril 00:47:32 -!- kinoSi has joined. 00:47:36 `welcome kinoSi 00:47:36 they have never ever talked 00:47:39 kinoSi: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 00:48:18 i have no idea if kinoSi is even new 00:48:20 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -b *!*lament@184.71.170.*. 00:48:20 i am so out of the loop 00:48:28 `welcome elliott 00:48:31 elliott: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 00:48:34 oerjan: wow, unbanning lament without discussing it with the op who banned lament??? 00:48:38 `welcome aloril 00:48:40 how can you even consider unbanning lament without asking lament about it 00:48:42 aloril: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 00:48:45 IMO: op abuse 00:48:57 op me and i promise to ban oerjan for life 00:49:07 (that's my campaign speech) 00:49:18 abusive ops need rehabilitiation not banning!!!!!! 00:49:18 elliott: who's your running mate 00:49:20 support revoked 00:49:23 will you ban aloril 00:49:25 kmc: either me, or monqy 00:49:26 and voice gregor 00:49:28 oh apparently me 00:49:35 kinoSi: #esotericにようこそ! 00:49:37 monqy: oerjan can be rehabilitated away from polite society 00:49:44 support unrevoked 00:49:54 (by banning him from polite society) 00:49:59 (polite society is #esoteric) 00:50:03 … 00:50:19 SOUP 00:50:22 Q: is #esoteric really polite????? 00:50:24 NUTS 00:50:33 monqy: is #esoteric even a society 00:50:44 is it possible to be away from #esoteric 00:50:49 monqy: by the way I thought you gave up on this place 00:50:57 or do you just keep joining for no reason like me 00:51:00 i do that................ 00:51:05 i haven't given up enough to bother removing it from autojoin 00:51:09 mmm 00:51:11 the height of apathy 00:51:20 i hang around for the off chance of some good quotes 00:51:26 from certain people 00:51:29 kinoSi: 国際的のエソテリックプログラミングの場所です。詳しく情報はウィキで読めます:http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page (他のエソテリカはirc.dal.netの#esotericでいい) 00:51:37 everyone else I don't particularly care about!! 00:51:46 op me and i promise to ban oerjan for life <-- I CLAIM ENTRAPMENT 00:51:47 wow monqy, you'll hurt the feelings of everyone else!!!! 00:51:50 poor Dovregubben 00:51:58 what if Dovregubben is a good quotes person 00:52:03 (who's Dovregubben) 00:52:09 i have no idea let's find out 00:52:11 `pastelogs Dovregubben 00:52:22 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.9136 00:52:55 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: +o elliott. 00:52:58 awesome 00:53:04 congratulations 00:53:08 i'm going to sit here doing nothing to show how responsible i am 00:53:16 sweet 00:53:24 2008-12-24.txt:10:27:07: I Dovregubbens hall 00:53:24 2010-03-05.txt:20:53:02: hiato yet I like Grieg very much. But a lot of his isn't pompous even though it uses a full orchestra. (Of course some exceptions, like "I dovregubbens sal" (iirc, and "In the hall of the mountain king" in English)) 00:53:28 2012-07-04.txt:05:35:59: -!- Dovregubben has joined #esoteric. 00:53:29 req. voicing of Gregor 00:53:31 the story behind the mystery man 00:53:35 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -o oerjan. 00:53:48 i will be a calming presence in this channel 00:53:52 nothing can go wrong with me at the helm 00:53:54 WHO SAID THAT 00:54:34 military coup seizes #esoteric, CNN brings you the latest tweets as they develop 00:55:02 2012-07-04.txt:05:47:34: Dovregubben: make yourself comfortable.. i think you're in the right place 00:55:03 /mode +q kmc 00:55:06 the itidus blessing 00:55:07 military coup siezes #esoteric, fails to deliver on election promises 00:55:22 what promises 00:55:30 voicing Gregor 00:55:42 i never promised to do that 00:55:54 yes you did 00:55:56 -!- Braber01 has quit (Quit: Leaving). 00:55:58 no 00:56:07 is this what they call a hot button issue 00:56:11 you just did it when +m was on 00:56:30 and due to your general hostility towards voicing issues it went unrecorded 00:56:32 ooh, instead of kicking people I don't like, I could just selectively +v people I do like and then set +m 00:56:40 put it in my list of things to do when I go mad with power 00:56:44 is Gregor a person you do like 00:56:49 how can I possibly comment 00:56:52 I haven't gone mad yet 00:56:57 maybe I never will go mad! 00:57:04 but if you do? 00:57:08 idk 00:57:12 how can I say what I'll do when I'm mad 00:57:33 go mad for a bit and see what you do 00:57:37 You know what they say: power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely. I vote we get elliott network ops. 00:57:49 i vote we give elliott the launch codes 00:58:15 but I get more responsible the more power I'm given, it's awful 00:59:07 kmc: i challenge you to a game of hangman 00:59:14 monqy: (how do i type hangman without accidentally typing hangedman instead) 00:59:54 no thx 01:00:19 elliott: get hangman in here and tab-complete 01:00:20 kmc: excuse me. 01:00:31 I had to try very hard not to type hangedman!!!!! it's a curse 01:00:36 -!- Phantom_Hoover has changed nick to hangman. 01:00:42 ___ _____ _____ ___ ______ ____ ___ ____ ___: 0/6 01:00:46 alright 01:00:50 who is playing 01:00:54 o 01:00:58 no 01:01:00 you're not playing 01:01:02 i will play 01:01:08 e 01:01:09 it can be collaborative 01:01:15 no, everyone but me is terrible 01:01:20 except possibly kmc 01:01:26 opening with e is so mainstream 01:01:31 __E _____ __O__ _O_ ____E_ O_E_ __E ____ _O_: 0/6 01:01:59 q 01:02:05 hey, i was going to do q!!!! 01:02:06 __E Q____ __O__ _O_ ____E_ O_E_ __E ____ _O_: 0/6 01:02:13 x 01:02:19 __E Q____ __O__ _OX ____E_ O_E_ __E ____ _O_: 0/6 01:02:23 0/6? 01:02:25 oh 01:02:28 ther'es actually an x 01:02:29 good 01:02:31 z 01:02:31 Six failures are allowed. 01:02:34 can i guess the whole thing 01:02:37 monqy: no 01:02:39 because 01:02:41 __E Q____ __O__ _OX ____E_ O_E_ __E __Z_ _O_: 0/6 01:02:43 i'll give a hint 01:02:45 no 01:02:46 i hate hints 01:02:48 Gregor is a bad person!!!!!! 01:02:49 that's the hint 01:02:51 v 01:02:56 Gregor: The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog 01:02:58 __E Q____ __O__ _OX ____E_ OVE_ __E __Z_ _O_: 0/6 01:02:58 you're falling into his trap!!!! 01:03:01 -!- elliott has kicked oerjan oerjan. 01:03:11 -!- oerjan has joined. 01:03:19 i think we can all agree that action was justified 01:03:20 oerjan "a martyr" 01:03:26 I DO NOT RECOGNIZE TRYING TO SOLVE THE PUZZLE 01:03:28 fancy 01:03:30 YOU MUST MAKE LETTER GUESSES 01:03:34 ok 01:03:34 y 01:03:40 __E Q____ __O__ _OX ____E_ OVE_ __E __ZY _O_: 0/6 01:03:40 Gregor: Ø 01:03:46 __E Q____ __O__ _OX ____E_ OVE_ __E __ZY _O_: 1/6 Ø 01:03:50 2 01:03:57 __E Q____ __O__ _OX ____E_ OVE_ __E __ZY _O_: 2/6 Ø2 01:04:01 ok 01:04:02 i got this 01:04:02 t 01:04:05 2 isn't a letter elliott !!!!! 01:04:12 T_E Q____ __O__ _OX ____E_ OVE_ T_E __ZY _O_: 2/6 Ø2 01:04:14 monqy: it is in my heart 01:04:16 h 01:04:16 h 01:04:18 h 01:04:20 h 01:04:22 h 01:04:24 h 01:04:25 THE Q____ __O__ _OX ____E_ OVE_ THE __ZY _O_: 2/6 Ø2 01:04:28 u 01:04:33 you ruined the symmetry goddamn it!!! 01:04:38 THE QU___ __O__ _OX _U__E_ OVE_ THE __ZY _O_: 2/6 Ø2 01:04:39 a 01:04:54 hurry up 01:04:54 THE QU___ __O__ _OX _U__E_ OVE_ THE _AZY _O_: 2/6 Ø2 01:04:55 þ 01:05:07 ÞE QU___ __O__ _OX _U__E_ OVE_ ÞE _AZY _O_: 2/6 Ø2 01:05:08 p.s. do you lose at 6/6 or 7/6 01:05:13 6/6 01:05:14 ý 01:05:24 ÞE QU___ __O__ _OX _U__E_ OVE_ ÞE _AZY _O_: 3/6 Ø2Ý 01:05:26 p.s. that was funny i laughed 01:05:31 ð 01:05:37 ÞE QU___ __O__ _OX _U__E_ OVE_ ÞE _AZY _O_: 4/6 Ø2ÝĐ 01:05:43 ö 01:05:49 ÞE QU___ __O__ _OX _U__E_ OVE_ ÞE _AZY _O_: 5/6 Ø2ÝĐÖ 01:05:51 uh oh!!! better think quick 01:05:52 i 01:05:58 ÞE QUI__ __O__ _OX _U__E_ OVE_ ÞE _AZY _O_: 5/6 Ø2ÝĐÖ 01:06:01 c 01:06:09 ÞE QUIC_ __O__ _OX _U__E_ OVE_ ÞE _AZY _O_: 5/6 Ø2ÝĐÖ 01:06:10 g 01:06:17 ÞE QUIC_ __O__ _OX _U__E_ OVE_ ÞE _AZY _OG: 5/6 Ø2ÝĐÖ 01:06:18 r 01:06:27 ÞE QUIC_ _RO__ _OX _U__E_ OVER ÞE _AZY _OG: 5/6 Ø2ÝĐÖ 01:06:28 k 01:06:33 ÞE QUICK _RO__ _OX _U__E_ OVER ÞE _AZY _OG: 5/6 Ø2ÝĐÖ 01:06:34 b 01:06:40 ÞE QUICK BRO__ _OX _U__E_ OVER ÞE _AZY _OG: 5/6 Ø2ÝĐÖ 01:06:41 f 01:06:46 æ 01:06:47 ÞE QUICK BRO__ FUCK _U__E_ OVER ÞE _AZY _OG: 5/6 Ø2ÝĐÖ 01:06:50 oerjan: no 01:06:51 only i am playing now 01:06:52 ÞE QUICK BRO__ FUCK _U__E_ OVER ÞE _AZY _OG: 6/6 Ø2ÝĐÖÆ 01:06:53 YOU LOSE 01:06:54 no 01:06:58 -!- elliott has kicked oerjan ruining my fucking joke. 01:07:02 -!- oerjan has joined. 01:07:10 oerjan "a double martyr" 01:07:11 someone is a little trigger happy 01:07:13 i was going to wait until only one letter was left 01:07:15 and then do æ 01:07:16 but no!! 01:07:37 Unfortunately there are no diaereses in that sentence. 01:07:40 monqy: you go next 01:07:55 _: 0/1 01:07:55 elliott: my locale is broken so i cant make funny unicode jokes 01:08:00 they all show up as question marks!!! 01:08:05 no monqy was going to be the one with the word 01:08:07 but ok monqy can do this next one 01:08:08 a 01:08:09 b 01:08:09 c 01:08:09 d 01:08:10 e 01:08:11 f 01:08:11 g 01:08:15 no 01:08:16 You lose lose lose. 01:08:17 only monqy is playing 01:08:17 Gregor: ñ 01:08:20 wtf 01:08:21 ☭ 01:08:28 but my joke was the word was going to be a smiley face 01:08:28 kmc was right. 01:08:30 monqy: come up with a word i'm ready 01:08:31 but i cant type smiley faces 01:08:36 高 01:08:48 monqy: it should be a proper word! 01:08:49 i'm counting on you 01:08:56 smiley faces are a word!!! 01:09:08 no unicode !!!!! you funny broken unicode person 01:09:12 let's call you oerjan 2 01:09:25 * shachaf return 01:09:29 in other news i'm bad at thinking of words 01:09:31 elliott: Who died and made you op? :-( 01:09:33 shachaf can you think of a word for me 01:09:42 shachaf: oerjan 01:09:44 R.I.P. 01:09:45 monqy: "telemarketer" 01:09:48 ok 01:09:52 let's see how many letters is that 01:09:57 ______ 0/6 01:09:59 no 01:10:00 hangman 01:10:03 get back in line 01:10:12 > map (const '_') "telemarketer" 01:10:13 "____________" 01:10:16 ok 01:10:18 it's a smiley 01:10:20 "__" 01:10:20 _____ 9/-4 01:10:25 kmc: What happened in here. :-( 01:10:26 hlep 01:10:27 what are we doing 01:10:31 augur: nothing 01:10:32 hi elliott 01:10:33 ______ 0/6 01:10:33 hi 01:10:33 ____________: 0/6 01:10:35 dammit 01:10:36 monqy: 2 01:10:41 Are we still talking about misuse of cryptographic primitives? 01:10:41 ____________: 1/6 2 01:10:44 monqy: uhhh 01:10:44 monqy, . 01:10:46 monqy: hexagon 01:10:53 ____________: 3/6 2.hexagon 01:10:55 monqy: a bird 01:10:58 monqy, levity 01:11:03 ____________: 5/6 2.hexagona birdlevity 01:11:04 monqy: lemarke 01:11:12 elliott: Can you go hangmanning somewhere else? 01:11:16 shachaf: no 01:11:19 This is a bad channel for that. 01:11:23 oerjan: kick elliott 01:11:23 you_lose_sorry 6/6 2.hexagona birdlevitylemarke 01:11:26 monqy: lemarke is one of the letters in "telemarketer"!!!!! 01:11:36 please correct 01:11:37 shachaf: hey i don't have ops 01:11:38 lemarke isn't a ltter!!!!!! 01:11:40 yes 01:11:41 it is 01:11:50 i don't have a lemarke key 01:11:52 lemarke is obviously a derivative of lexande 01:11:52 i do 01:11:56 i keep pressing it 01:11:59 hlemarke monqy 01:12:00 see? 01:12:11 it's between "i" and "o" 01:12:18 oerjan: Yes you do. :-( 01:12:26 also broken locale ruins me again: i wanted to put skulls and crossbones for every letter 01:12:27 OK my turn 01:12:31 je think que you are missing lemarke 01:12:32 The quick brown fox jumps over the slithy tove. 01:12:36 _____ 0/6 01:12:39 hangman: four 01:12:48 hangman: the pope 01:12:48 _____ 1/6 4 01:12:57 _____ 2/6 4the pope 01:12:58 hangman: q 01:13:05 _____ 3/6 4the popeq 01:13:09 hangman: o 01:13:14 hangman: omega 01:13:18 _____ 4/6 4the popeqo 01:13:19 hangman: z 01:13:22 Wait, #haskell turned bad too. 01:13:24 hangman: y 01:13:25 _____ 6/6 4the popeqoomegaz 01:13:27 hangman: help 01:13:42 was the word 01:13:44 _____ 01:13:46 11630 01:13:52 oh no 01:13:54 now i ruined the joke 01:13:57 best word 01:14:03 monqy: you should have done that..... 01:14:06 make the word be a bunch of _s 01:14:11 that would have been funny!!! 01:14:16 yes......................... 01:14:21 Too late now! 01:14:24 can we go back in time and fix that 01:14:24 _______ 0/6 01:14:25 :( 01:14:27 oerjan: _ 01:14:30 we can still do it!! 01:14:35 _______ 1/6 _ 01:14:37 help 01:14:38 monqy: I'm going to southern CA! 01:14:39 > map (const '_') "________________________________________" 01:14:40 "________________________________________" 01:14:42 im ready 01:14:43 monqy: Maybe. 01:14:46 monqy: Should I go visit you? 01:14:52 ________________________________________: 0/6 01:14:55 monqy: Do you even exist? 01:14:57 monqy: q 01:14:58 i dont exist 01:15:02 ________________________________________: 1/6 q 01:15:04 monqy: help 01:15:09 ________________________________________: 2/6 qhelp 01:15:10 monqy: no!!! 01:15:11 > fix (map (const '_')) 01:15:15 ________________________________________: 3/6 qhelpno!!! 01:15:15 mueval-core: Time limit exceeded 01:15:16 monqy: stop 01:15:26 ________________________________________: 4/6 qhelpno!!!> fix (map (const '_')) 01:15:28 monqy: stop this help me out 01:15:39 with what do you need help 01:15:45 you broke the rules 01:15:48 please continue updating the board 01:15:53 ________________________________________: 6/6 qhelpno!!!> fix (map (const '_'))monqy: stopmonqy: stop this help me out 01:15:55 -!- elliott has kicked monqy monqy. 01:16:01 -!- monqy has joined. 01:16:03 you skipped 5/6 01:16:04 kmc: Can you kick elliott? 01:16:12 you're a sore loser, elliott!! 01:16:18 what was the word monqy 01:16:21 it was 01:16:23 uhh 01:16:24 kmc, can you voice Gregor 01:16:27 ________________________________________ 01:16:29 oh 01:16:31 i guess _ 01:16:36 you already lost!!!! 01:16:39 there's no turning back 01:16:46 im turning!!!! 01:16:47 EVERYONE STAND STILL!! 01:16:52 I HAVE A VERY IMPORTANT POST TO READ 01:16:55 BY EZYANG 01:17:04 but i already told monqy to read that post 01:17:05 and also another post 01:17:05 So wait until I'm done reading it. 01:17:08 which i haven't told you to read yet 01:17:11 but i will if you read that one 01:17:26 i was going to read them but now i think i'll do something else first 01:17:33 monqy 01:17:34 you betrayed me 01:17:40 shachaf needs a turn too! 01:17:40 -!- hangman has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:17:41 are you going to do spells4 instead 01:17:46 I already did spells4 01:17:48 oops 01:17:53 i thought it wasn't done yet 01:17:56 monqy: Can you kick elliott. :-( 01:17:59 I remember implementing C standard library scrabble. Wonder if that's still around somewhere… 01:18:02 im not an op :'[ 01:18:07 -!- elliott has set channel mode: +o monqy. 01:18:09 i trust you monqy 01:18:15 heeeeeeeeeeeeelp 01:18:17 monqy: Can you op me. :-( 01:18:21 shachaf: i think so 01:18:24 do the responsible thing monqy 01:18:26 I won't kick anyone. 01:18:26 -!- monqy has set channel mode: +v shachaf. 01:18:27 -!- elliott has set channel mode: -o shachaf. 01:18:30 whoops 01:18:30 did i do it right 01:18:32 trigger happy!!! 01:18:39 monqy: No. :-( 01:18:42 @admin - elliott 01:18:48 @admin + shachaf 01:18:48 Not enough privileges 01:18:52 oh no!! 01:18:53 @admin + monqy 01:18:56 oopse! 01:18:57 thanks 01:19:10 monqy: can i have my lambdabot admin back please 01:19:15 cale gave it to me!! 01:19:16 @admin + elliott 01:19:16 Not enough privileges 01:19:20 shachaf........... 01:19:21 no!!!!! 01:19:31 i don't think shachaf deserves voice monqy 01:19:32 what do you think 01:19:38 -!- monqy has set channel mode: -v shachaf. 01:19:41 elliott: I think you're already a lambdabot admin. :-( 01:19:42 "you had yuore chance" 01:19:46 @admin + me 01:19:48 @admin - me 01:19:52 "looks like i am" 01:19:53 -!- monqy has set channel mode: +v monqy. 01:19:57 -!- monqy has set channel mode: +v elliott. 01:19:59 -!- monqy has set channel mode: +v Gregor. 01:20:06 monqy: "i think you mean yuor'e chance" 01:20:07 -!- elliott has set channel mode: -v Gregor. 01:20:11 monqy: "learn to spell" 01:20:17 campaign promise fulfilled 01:20:33 monqy: If I admin you will you op me. :-( 01:20:37 @uptime 01:20:37 uptime: 23d 10h 19m 1s, longest uptime: 1m 10d 23h 44m 29s 01:20:38 if only hangman was here!!! 01:21:02 he was tired of hanging out 01:21:33 oerjan: You should deop elliott. 01:21:39 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o oerjan. 01:21:43 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -o elliott. 01:21:45 O KAY 01:21:48 monqy: please fix 01:21:54 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -o oerjan. 01:21:55 is voice not good enough for you!!! 01:22:00 I trust monqy! 01:22:02 monqy: remember the calming presence 01:22:03 i'll see what i can do 01:22:05 -!- monqy has set channel mode: +v elliott. 01:22:05 monqy won't bring chaos to #esoteric 01:22:06 i feel calm going away 01:22:08 from life 01:22:16 i trust you monqy 01:22:17 remember how i opped you 01:22:19 all that way back 01:22:22 that was because i believed in you 01:22:25 -!- monqy has set channel mode: -o elliott. 01:22:29 what's the right button 01:22:31 i cant find it 01:22:44 monqy: maybe you just don't know how to be friends....with anyone............ 01:22:46 i hope that's not true monqy! 01:22:50 oh no!!!!!!!!!!! 01:23:01 i think you should prove you can be believed in, monqy!!! 01:23:18 monqy: i beielive in yoU!! 01:23:23 elliott: i belivev in u mad! 01:23:28 -!- monqy has set channel mode: +o-o elliott monqy. 01:23:31 did i do it right 01:23:38 monqy: yes 01:23:44 Wait, no. 01:23:50 fancy 01:23:50 oh no! 01:23:51 oerjan: Deop elliott! 01:23:52 -!- elliott has set channel mode: +o monqy. 01:23:55 see 01:23:57 everything is perfect now 01:24:03 oerjan: Op me! 01:24:19 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o oerjan. 01:24:22 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -o elliott. 01:24:22 -!- elliott has set channel mode: -o oerjan. 01:24:25 O KAY 01:24:32 monqy: i still believe in you 01:24:41 fancy 01:24:42 you can overcome this tyranny 01:24:43 -!- monqy has set channel mode: +oo-o elliott shachaf monqy. 01:24:46 -!- elliott has set channel mode: -o shachaf. 01:24:49 -!- elliott has set channel mode: +o monqy. 01:24:53 it is perfect once again 01:25:07 now, let us relax 01:25:23 does anyone want to talk about brainfuck derivatives 01:25:25 monqy: Try again. :-( 01:25:42 monqy: you tried your best & did the right thing 01:25:47 shachaf: but elliott is already opped!!!! 01:26:05 monqy: op me :'( 01:26:23 elliott: No, I only wish to discuss Befunge extensions. 01:26:28 pikhq_: go for it! 01:26:30 gopher it 01:26:38 I'm not going to be happy until Befunge is impossible to implement. 01:26:50 Oh, wait, that's easy. 01:26:58 Halting oracle fingerprint. 01:27:15 monqy: so do you have anything left to do with 01:27:16 mspell 01:27:18 or is it `all done' 01:27:20 lots to do 01:27:27 for example, the mspell part 01:27:31 o 01:27:33 ok 01:27:35 good luck 01:27:51 monqy: (so what have you done so far) 01:27:53 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: -o elliott. 01:27:54 * pikhq_ creates Brainfunge. BWAHAHAHA 01:27:55 i also have to do things like shower and eat and read these blog!!! 01:27:55 (just the zap stuff?) 01:28:00 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: -o monqy. 01:28:02 i've done uh 01:28:04 -!- elliott has left ("Leaving"). 01:28:04 part of mspell 01:28:08 rip 01:28:10 ChanServ++ 01:28:13 oerjan++ 01:28:15 oerjanserv++ 01:28:37 fungeot = INT_MAX 01:28:44 fungot = INT_MAX // This too 01:28:44 pikhq_: 10 get a character 01:29:44 fungot is signed? 01:29:45 shachaf: open 794, 62282, 65472 01:29:48 fungot++ 01:29:48 shachaf: call address: ffdb ( hex) 65514 ( decimal). characters used to open a logical operator names. if none of the two extra colors from the information by means of the string. 01:34:08 fungot = ~fungot + 1 01:34:09 pikhq_: the vic-ii chip does much of the comparison. for more information, visit your commodore 64, all you need to change these contents using peripheral inputs, together with the commodore 64 has 4k of ram 01:34:24 pikhq_: We're already in undefined behaviorland. 01:34:38 shachaf: Kay, *fine*. 01:34:49 *fungot = 0; 01:34:49 pikhq_: if you don't want to read or set the raster register is put a " semi-tutorial" approach to many sections of the port on the cnt line, the 01:42:41 ^style 01:42:41 Available: agora alice c64* ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube 01:42:48 ^style youtube 01:42:48 Selected style: youtube (Some YouTube comments) 01:42:50 fungot 01:42:50 shachaf: no you idiots find this crap on another site. its best just to ignore? ::p box, and was rolling! hilarious! 01:43:00 monqy: hilarious! 01:44:30 fungot 01:44:30 kmc: i agree with xharlequin, her music and comedy. it failed. there were no passengers 01:44:54 fungot for president 01:44:55 kmc: plancrashinfo says:). it's great for tree removal and clearing land for housing! mmmm nothin' like blackend air bus, im beginning to believe only 3 people died 01:45:36 fungot: butts 01:45:36 kmc: god that's fucking hilarious. glad to see it 01:45:52 finally, someone appreciates my sense of humor 01:47:11 That's a sense of humor? 01:49:10 kmc: Did you send off your email? 01:50:30 to stripe? yes 01:51:27 I'll bug gdb about it next time I see him! 01:52:11 do you see gdb often? 01:52:24 did you start working at stripe secretly? 01:52:33 No, but I went to a couple of their hackathons. 01:52:36 cool 01:52:38 say hi for me 01:52:42 say hi to nelson also if you see him 01:52:56 Maybe they'll have a CTF event like last time. 01:53:19 Yeah 01:53:21 YEAH 01:53:23 yEAH 01:53:31 I told Nelson about bahaskell but it turns out he doesn't really do Haskell anymore. 01:53:34 yeah 01:55:09 kmc: You should go work at Stripe! 01:55:17 I hear it's "the cool place to be". 01:55:31 -!- copumpkin has changed nick to napumpkin. 01:55:36 it's far away 01:55:43 also it's already, like, a big company 01:55:45 -!- napumpkin has changed nick to copumpkin. 01:55:47 It's pretty close to SF. 01:55:49 Is it? 01:56:15 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Good night). 01:57:53 it's in SF 01:57:57 that is far away from here 01:58:02 and yeah, they have more than 30 people already 02:01:52 i don't really do Haskell anymore 02:02:02 i still use the language when appropriate 02:02:09 I.e. "never" 02:02:16 but i don't particularly spend my free time talking about haskell anymore 02:02:22 shachaf: you're soundnfury now? 02:02:35 soundnfury 'n' cheater combined 02:02:37 wow 02:02:40 the dream team 02:03:48 i no longer feel like i have a vested interest in convincing other people to use haskell 02:04:09 i'll probably go to the next boston haskell though 02:04:20 if i'm free 02:05:05 I'm trying to arrange for the next boston haskell to be in SF. 02:05:18 cool, good luck with that 02:05:28 Actually it seems likely. 02:05:40 Except by BostonHaskell I mean "bahaskell, but edwardk doing a talk". 02:06:01 Since he'll be in the area around then anyway. 02:06:50 ah cool 02:07:01 And ezyang will be here too. 02:07:03 And maybe luite. 02:08:00 The Internet connection here is very slow. 02:08:14 I can use Mosh but other things are unpleasant to use. 02:08:36 -!- Jaurrison has joined. 02:08:56 where are you? 02:09:55 -!- Jaurrison has quit (Client Quit). 02:11:16 Public-Internet-connection place. 02:11:25 kmc: Today I had a super burrito. 02:11:34 It was made of two tortillas rather than just one. 02:12:27 -!- copumpkin has changed nick to cyclops. 02:13:12 -!- cyclops has changed nick to copumpkin. 02:13:37 I have a hilight on funpuns now. 02:13:39 Thanks to lexande. 02:13:55 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 02:14:26 thexande 02:34:42 -!- aloril has quit (*.net *.split). 02:34:42 -!- soundnfury has quit (*.net *.split). 02:34:42 -!- SimonRC has quit (*.net *.split). 02:47:45 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:47:50 -!- DH____ has joined. 02:51:11 What is it called in backgammon if you win while the other player still has pieces in jail? 02:51:17 so this dr who thing is british or did i take the wrong one? 02:51:24 zzo38: "winning"? 02:51:49 I know it is winning, but I wanted to know if it is anything special. 02:52:15 i wonder if there's us english dubs for it. 02:55:18 how about subs 02:55:56 I think unamb might not be that great an idea on Clojure, at least partially because using it to build a variadic parallel or seems annoying and difficult 02:56:11 i think i would read them as uk subs and they would be annoying. 02:57:34 like how white people (e.g. me) watch The Wire with subs 02:58:00 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 02:58:08 though that's like 4 layers of incomprehensible 02:58:38 why so? 02:58:41 african american vernacular english + bawlmer accent + gangsta slang + non-professional actors 02:59:04 it's not so much hard to understand, it's just such a silly language. 02:59:26 plus the show makes absolutely no attempt to hold your hand through understanding what's going on 02:59:40 cool 03:00:07 maybe i'll watch that just for the incomprehensibility 03:00:09 kmc: Is that a good show? 03:00:18 yes The Wire is a good show 03:00:28 i have a feeling i am being trolled, because of how often i talk about how good it is 03:00:33 I don't own a television, only a large form factor screen with T tuner. 03:00:33 as well as how often everyone else talks about how good it is 03:00:41 does that help you make better tea? 03:00:41 No trolling intended. 03:00:45 is it ISO 3103 compliant? 03:01:04 -!- DH____ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:03:45 I should keep a list of which shows are good shows. 03:03:50 In case I ever want to watch some. 03:03:57 The Wire and Breaking Bad, what else? 03:04:05 hm 03:04:09 what kind of shows do you like 03:04:16 is the wire about actual wires because i like those 03:04:20 there are some wires 03:04:28 yay 03:04:33 it's not exactly about wires 03:04:49 I'm not sure... I don't own a television, see. 03:04:54 but they play an important role 03:05:37 okay what wp says sounds interesting enough 03:06:11 The Wire is unlike any other TV show 03:06:12 not that i see how wires could have anything to do with it. 03:06:25 there are cops and drug dealers, but they're mostly not good and evil 03:06:32 they're mostly just people trying to do their jobs well enough to not get fired 03:06:59 That sounds pretty good. 03:07:03 err, many shows are like that? 03:07:20 Well, I have no idea if it sounds like it'll make a good story. Hard to tell. 03:07:43 but that's like the most important thing in a show 03:07:58 so i should definitely watch it 03:08:01 i haven't really seen another show like that 03:08:15 in most TV shows, the cops are altruistic and a few are evil 03:08:20 and the drug dealers are evil, and a few are altruistic 03:08:30 in the wire (and in real life) people are mostly neither altruistic or evil 03:08:31 well i haven't seen it in a crime show 03:08:44 i have mostly seen it in shows with vampires and shit. 03:08:47 heh 03:09:10 well 03:09:46 then it's mostly good/bad/psychopath-murderer-on-the-good-side-for-some-reason 03:09:48 mostly the show is about institutions, and the people who either embody the institution's failures, or try to reform the institution (and are usually punished severely for it) 03:09:59 but enough talk, watch the show :) 03:10:23 The next thing I watch will probably be _The Impostors_. 03:10:35 Because I have a DVD of it. 03:10:49 I hear you have to watch it several times before it makes sense. 03:12:43 the impostors? 03:13:07 Yes. 03:13:23 I don't know much about it. 03:15:46 Blah, future-cancel might not cancel a future. 03:15:53 My unamb might leak memory 03:16:31 i think it says "oklo rigger duff radar" in a poster on the wall in dr who 03:16:46 if you watch it does it say kmc/shachaf/Sgeo? 03:17:03 -!- elliott has joined. 03:17:09 Oh. No oerjan. 03:17:10 -!- elliott has left ("Leaving"). 03:17:12 Sgeo: won't the memory get reclaimed once the future is no longer reachable? 03:17:49 kmc, hmm, why would it? It might have side-effects, at least I think the JVM might think so 03:18:00 once the computation is finished, then? 03:18:20 But what if a computation doesn't finish. future-cancel might not cancel a future 03:18:21 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 03:18:39 doesn't finish? you mean if it enters an infinite loop? 03:18:49 (future-cancel (future (loop [] (recur)))) 03:19:01 From what I gather in #clojure that won't actually cancel it 03:19:13 -!- monqy has joined. 03:19:23 Because the JVM has no way to safely stop it 03:19:25 hm, sucks 03:19:38 you want to be able to use unamb in situations where one side terminates and the other loops 03:19:41 (but you don't know which) 03:19:44 There is .stop for threasd but that's unsafe 03:20:01 what's unsafe 03:20:05 Well, it's not all infinite loops that pose a problem, just some, I gather 03:20:16 .stopping a Thread. 03:20:34 http://docs.oracle.com/javase/1.4.2/docs/guide/misc/threadPrimitiveDeprecation.html 03:20:52 i see 03:28:13 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 03:33:29 Is something having to do with send/receive messages on X-BIT are broken? 03:33:58 It seems to no longer send/receive on Usenet and also can no longer send/receive on FidoNet. 03:41:00 Is FidoNet a protocol that runs over econet? 03:41:10 I don't know. 03:42:22 zzo38: Why do you spend a lot of effort and time on all sorts of systems and protocols that no one uses anymore, like gopher? 03:42:43 It isn't true that nobody uses them anymore. 03:42:52 Well, very few people use them. 03:43:06 Why use Gopher instead of HTTP, for example? 03:43:07 OK 03:43:16 A book about computers I had as a kid mentioned gopher 03:43:18 I have both gopher and HTTP. 03:43:41 shachaf, it's fun is probably a sufficient reason, but not sure if it's zzo38's reason. 03:44:18 I'm wondering what zzo38's reason is. 03:44:56 It is better designed. 03:47:58 Modern HTML+CSS+HTTP+Flash+Windows+ActiveX+Linux+Unicode+HTTPS+JavaScript+DynamicHTML+... is too complicated and exposes a few things which shouldn't be and so on. 03:49:00 But you don't need to use HTML+CSS+HTTP+Flash+Windows+ActiveX+Linux+Unicode+HTTPS+JavaScript+DynamicHTML+... 03:49:07 I don't think anyone has used all of those at once. 03:49:13 ohhh that kind of wire. 03:50:38 shachaf: I think some people do, and even use a bunch of other things togheter with it. (Even Windows and Linux are sometimes used together with dual boot and with some server racks.) 03:50:51 what's DynamicHTML 03:51:03 nobody uses ActiveX anymore 03:51:09 except corporate intranet IE6 backwaters 03:52:07 DynamicHTML is Microsoft's name for HTML + JavaScript, I think. 03:52:23 -!- ais523 has quit. 03:52:23 Maybe a little more general than that. 03:52:59 I had a book called DHTML for Dummies 03:53:19 Oh, it might have been Dynamic HTML for Dummies 03:54:05 Hmm, except it wasn't exclusively Microsoft stuff 03:55:22 I once had ActiveX for Dummies 03:55:42 Reading it is what finally made programming "click" for me in my mind, but I broke the CD, so never played around with it 03:55:56 Since those long ID things are scary, and the CD had some tool to deal with those 03:56:16 If that CD didn't break, I wonder if I'd be a Microsoft fanboy programming ActiveX stuff today... 03:58:10 And then, they also use PDF, and all sorts of slow stuff, and all kind of videos even if they are not necessary, various pictures formats (SVG, JPEG, GIF, PNG, etc), ... 03:58:37 HTTP only enables it, it doesn't enforce it 03:59:54 That is true, but sometimes you need those various headers anyways even though they are not used. 04:00:07 It can make it slow. 04:08:56 Ugh, I can't tell which JRE .jars open in by default 04:12:47 -!- pikhq has joined. 04:15:38 Hey, right side of the split. 04:16:33 "Well TCP has been superceded already by application layer protocols doing a more efficient congestion and flow control these days so its kind of a moot point" 04:16:40 I feel dumber for having read that 04:16:51 It ate my intelligence. 04:17:31 http://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/yuoxx/stanford_biologist_and_computer_scientist/c5z244w 04:18:24 So, that person thinks we use HTTP pipelining to make TCP act less like TCP? 04:18:26 Strange. 04:18:57 I thought that was used to make HTTP act more like what TCP expects. 04:19:47 Namely, a somewhat long-lived connection. 04:19:59 A *single* somewhat long-lived connection. 04:20:33 * Sgeo looks up HTTP pipelining 04:20:47 That's where you run multiple HTTP requests over the same connection. 04:21:24 TCP is poorly suited to the tons-of-small-connections model HTTP in modern usage implies. 04:21:58 Wikipedia says sending several requests before receiving a response. But if you're loading a page for the first time how can you know before the response what you'll need to request beyond that first page? 04:22:22 Typically what you do is load the HTML first and then request its dependencies once you've parsed it. 04:22:36 I bet he also thinks uTP is an example of "doing better than TCP". 04:23:31 ... When really it's more "TCP flow control made less aggressive, because buffer bloat means that otherwise BitTorrent cripples *everything*" 04:24:03 Mosh fits that quote, though :D 04:24:18 Yes, Mosh is an example of *actually doing it better*. 04:24:37 doing it better because you have application-level knowledge 04:24:43 In certain environments it's quite possible to kick TCP's ass. 04:24:51 i don't think KeithW would claim Mosh flow control beats TCP for the general problem TCP solves 04:24:54 that's his other project :) 04:25:11 When your application-level knowledge gives you alternative schemes, then hey. 04:25:32 I suspect TCP's pretty hard to beat for the general case. And SCTP is the one thing that beats it. :P 04:25:55 * Sgeo is actually considering installing Eclipse and Counterclockwise 04:25:55 :/ 04:26:38 that project involves an explicit model of network elements, an explicit utility function, and Bayesian inference of network conditions 04:27:25 kmc: Sweet Jesus he's applying AI to the problem. 04:27:58 * pikhq approves 04:28:08 yeah, or what passes for AI these days 04:28:28 Well. Yeah. 04:28:42 it seems desirable (and yet extremely rare) for both ends of the connection to have an idea of what they're trying to accomplish 04:29:14 if Google can make a billion hojillion dollars on "gather loads of data, then perform naive bayesian inference" 04:29:20 then it should at least be worth a few papers :) 04:29:21 That'll be a changing target until we have a decent grasp on what it actually means for humans to be "intelligent" at a sufficiently low level we can algorithm it. 04:34:48 it is the CS & AI Lab, after all 04:35:28 so i hear google translate uses finite transducers 04:36:27 a formal language theorist told me this. he was not happy about i. 04:36:30 it 04:37:27 google made the best arabic translator, without having anyone on the project who speaks arabic 04:37:32 (not because google "did it wrong"; according to him, google tried the "correct" grammars too, but it didn't work) 04:39:02 perhaps they just use one of the known transducer learning algorithms, but on more samples than a human needs to learn the language. 04:52:17 Hmm. Looking at Mosh's terminal emulator stuff makes me realize that it'd probably be nice to write a not-terrible terminal emulator. 04:52:34 Like, one that does Unicode (to the extent it's possible). 04:55:23 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 04:55:28 22:52 < pikhq> Hmm. Looking at Mosh's terminal emulator stuff makes me realize that it'd probably be nice to write a not-terrible terminal emulator. 04:55:31 22:52 < pikhq> Like, one that does Unicode (to the extent it's possible). 04:55:34 22:54 * pikhq would rather not mosh into localhost to get proper terminal emulation; :P 04:56:19 i find the unicode handling of rxvt-unicode to be adequate 04:56:26 i don't see a big difference whether i'm using mosh or not 04:56:50 ATM I'm using XFCE terminal (same underlying library as GNOME terminal) 04:56:52 btw I think one of the programs in "src/examples/" in Mosh is just the terminal emulation layer 04:57:05 pikhq_: ah, we got a lot of bug reports about VTE 04:57:48 apparently it is pretty awful code -- the GTK calls to manipulate pixels are done right within the VT220 parser 04:57:56 ... Excuse me WHAT 04:58:01 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 04:58:10 you got so outraged that your ghost quit 04:58:25 Yup. 04:58:39 this is compared to maintaining some kind of "what's in every cell" data structure, and then rendering that in a straightforward way 04:58:43 which is what mosh does 04:59:06 Or what I'd expect anyone to do. 04:59:36 That'd make VTE quite useful if they made such a structure and exposed it at API level. 04:59:42 the main difference I see between urxvt and mosh-in-urxvt is a disadvantage of Mosh 04:59:57 which is that, if the server side locale doesn't know about a particular Unicode character, it turns into the replacement character 05:00:03 even if the local urxvt knows how to render it 05:00:29 Good thing I use en_US.UTF-8 essentially unconditionally! 05:00:50 sure, i mean you have to use a UTF-8 locale anyway 05:01:01 but does the locale file on your server have the latest version of the Unicode character database 05:01:06 Aaaah. 05:01:11 with all the exciting OUTLINE OF JAPAN and PILE OF POO and so forth 05:01:14 essential characters to be sure 05:01:36 Well, there's a chance it's a musl system, in which case it's 10k in libc... 05:01:57 Aaaand I have no idea how that interacts. 05:02:21 there should be a piece of software named metamusl 05:03:35 does mosh work in musl? 05:03:57 Y'know, I've actually not tried. 05:04:51 I'd have to actually set up a moderately-functional musl system again to test. :P 05:05:47 Or poke Gregor once his try-all-of-pkgsrc script finishes again. 05:10:04 Oh, it's C++; yeah, that's definitely a "should work" proposition there. 05:13:25 Though Qt doesn't build currently. :/ 05:15:31 gotta sleep, ttyl 05:21:32 Given a 128-bit block cipher, derive a 64-bit block cipher. 05:26:31 The "obvious" way to do it is to expand the 64 bits to 128 bits, encrypt that, and collapse the resulting 128 bits into 64 bits. 05:26:37 Unfortunately, the last step is impossible. 05:28:37 -!- Nisstyre_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 05:33:08 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 05:35:18 -!- pikhq has joined. 05:41:06 Disadvantage of Mosh? I think it is a disadvantage of Unicode. 05:42:29 (Which is that you even need a character database at all.) 05:44:52 zzo38: It's a weird combination of the needs of terminal emulation and international text display. 05:45:06 Namely, the terminal needs to know how many cells a given glyph will take. 05:45:25 "which is that, if the server side locale doesn't know about a particular Unicode character, it turns into the replacement character" I think it would have to, if the server wants to know how wide it is and stuff like that (they could dynamically generate it from asking the terminal emulator for the cursor position, but then there are complex scripts and stuff) 05:45:59 pikhq: Yes; and that is a problem with Unicode. 05:46:10 No, it's a problem with terminals. 05:46:16 -!- asiekierka has joined. 05:46:29 I don't think so. I think it is a problem with Unicode. 05:46:44 You'd have the same problem with anything handling that sort of text. 05:46:58 (One way to solve it would be if the character numbers were assigned differently) 05:47:00 Unless your answer is "those Arabs should use English". 05:47:17 That'd just be a particularly compact sort of database. 05:48:38 Mixing left-to-right and right-to-left text is always a problem; it has nothing specific to do with Unicode or terminals. 05:49:01 Unicode actually has an algorithm for that. :) 05:51:00 Yes I know but still it is no good. TeX-XeT also has an algorithm for that, but I still think it is not such a good idea to do line breaking in a RTL text which inside of a LTR sentence, and vice versa. (At least with TeX-XeT you do not need a character database.) 05:54:00 Both for complex scripts and for right-to-left, one thing which could be done to solve it easier would be: The program which is designed for this language will translate into presentation form when displaying. 05:55:29 i'm installing mysql server on a 128MB ARM netbook 05:55:31 i recommend you run 05:56:08 I don't want to run. The other people are sleeping and that would disturb them. 05:56:43 But 僕 信 に 他語的 text. 06:03:05 If you play the NES/Famicom square wave channels both the same except the first uses duty mode 1 and second is duty mode 3, and there is nobody around to hear it, does it make a noise? 06:04:32 (I am unable to test it on authentic hardware. I have a Famiclone hardware but no way to put software on a cartridge.) 06:13:33 -!- kallisti has changed nick to spirity. 06:13:45 this is kind of like 06:13:48 super saiyan. 06:13:52 okay? 06:14:14 (note: humor is always on topic) 06:14:21 (even bad humor) 06:14:38 hi 06:14:45 monqy: hi. 06:14:48 many name is spirity. 06:14:52 s/an// 06:15:05 so we should take Gregor's IRC log 06:15:24 and count everyone's average time of typo correction. 06:15:31 machine learning problem. 06:16:10 a really specific one. 06:16:14 involving computer code 06:16:51 in which the computer learns the average time of typo correcion of everyone in the channel named #esoteric on the Freenode network hosted at irc.freenode.net 06:17:31 also 06:17:56 Also I though this was elliott speaking for some reason. 06:18:06 mind tricks. 06:18:33 caused by incomplete sentences. 06:18:35 see? 06:19:14 also, a web interface to change/edit the topic. 06:19:22 using a bot. 06:19:28 and a web server. 06:19:35 which I can provide. 06:19:40 fizzie: elliott's offended 06:19:54 I don't see why you need to change the topic in that way. 06:20:10 zzo38: describe the workflow of changing an IRC topic. 06:20:38 One thing that will cause is the topic message to be changed into spam messages too often? 06:20:49 monqy: Kitten Is Offended. 06:21:00 And anyways you can just use IRC. 06:21:09 Describe the workflow using IRC. 06:21:22 -!- elliott has joined. 06:21:24 HI 06:21:25 HI 06:21:25 HI 06:21:26 HI 06:21:27 HI 06:21:28 HI 06:21:30 HI 06:21:32 HI 06:21:34 -!- elliott has left ("BYE"). 06:21:36 hi 06:21:37 oh 06:21:39 woops 06:21:50 zzo38: depends on client, operating system, graphics mananger. display manager. 06:21:55 -!- elliott has joined. 06:21:57 I forgot one 06:21:58 HI 06:21:59 spirity: why did you say hi so many times??? 06:21:59 -!- elliott has left ("Leaving"). 06:22:06 monqy: because I was excited. 06:22:16 spirity: Well, yes; everything does. 06:23:10 zzo38: /topic, highlight in your terminal emulator of choice, copy into a /topic command 06:23:35 using IRC client and command input scheme of choice. 06:24:02 zzo38: Is duty mode 3 just inverted duty mode 1? 06:24:11 fizzie: Yes, I think so. 06:24:52 workflow for HTTP interface: go to extremely tiny easy to remember link using web browser of choice. change text in a textarea. submit POST request using favorite input method of choice. 06:25:26 why not? 06:25:36 Yes, the workflow is different but I think the first way is obviously better. 06:25:52 Since you already will have IRC, if you are on IRC. 06:26:04 specifically it elimates the copy command, which can be time consuming. 06:26:05 And you need not load another program. 06:26:24 change topic by regex substition? 06:26:34 in channel with bot? 06:26:34 Loading another program is even more time consuming 06:26:56 easy to moderate spammers (on paper, anyway) 06:26:57 And depending on the IRC client you may not even need a copy command. 06:27:13 indeed. are there any examples? 06:27:31 if not, let's write an IRC client. 06:27:51 I don't know of any but it is definitely possible. 06:28:00 yes. 06:29:01 What's the copy command for? If it's to copy the old one, all the gooey clients have it already in the text field. 06:29:02 I find the copy command is definitely less time consuming than loading another program and is also less time consuming than selecting a bunch of menus or whatever. 06:29:39 yes, GUI clients typically have this. 06:29:54 (At least I am using PHIRC with the PuTTY terminal emulator; to copy text just highlight with left mouse button, and then click the right button (middle button if on UNIX).) 06:30:13 right. 06:30:56 Freenode ChanServ has topicappend/topicprepend, though not quite topicregex. 06:30:57 So to copy the topic message, simply by typing TOPIC and then space and CTRL+C and then space, colon, highlight message and then paste (no explicit "copy to clipboard" command is necessary). 06:31:01 regex is likely to be faster. 06:31:03 in some situations. 06:31:12 with some people. 06:31:53 the HTTP interface is only a good idea for some kind of larger web-based system. 06:32:38 dedicated web based client (already exists) 06:33:13 Well, yes, it is a good idea for some kind of larger web-based system, but a kind of larger web-based system is a bad idea anyways. 06:44:53 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 06:44:53 -!- aloril has joined. 06:44:53 -!- soundnfury has joined. 06:44:53 -!- SimonRC has joined. 06:52:03 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:07:27 -!- nooga has joined. 07:50:43 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 07:54:48 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 07:58:35 blargh 07:58:45 coppro, hmm? 07:58:54 trying to set up email from my machine 07:58:57 why is SMTP so hard 08:02:22 It's not hard, it's Simple; it says so right in the name. 08:10:59 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:11:23 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 08:11:30 Hello 08:15:37 Does anyone happen to know how screen determines the encoding to speak to the terminal? I have LC_CTYPE=en_US.UTF-8 everywhere (both locally as well as remotely), but after they upgraded this workstation, I now have to use "screen -U" to convince it to speak (and listen) UTF-8 to (from) the terminal; it didn't use to require anything. 08:18:48 The -U option seems to just nwin_options.encoding = nwin_options.encoding == -1 ? UTF8 : 0;, but that doesn't really make sense, since it also if (((s = getenv("LC_ALL")) || (s = getenv("LC_CTYPE")) || (s = getenv("LANG"))) && InStr(s, "UTF-8")) nwin_options.encoding = UTF8; and that sure should be true. 08:19:45 Well, okay, it maybe does nwin_options.encoding = FindEncoding(nl_langinfo(CODESET)); instead, but certainly that should be the same thing. 08:20:48 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:20:56 -!- AnotherTest1 has joined. 08:24:22 -!- AnotherTest1 has changed nick to Test. 08:24:27 -!- Test has changed nick to AnotherTest. 08:28:10 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:30:40 Okay, it seems that the locale-setting returns errors if there's even a single LC_ variable that refers to a non-generated locale; I only had en_US ones generated, but due to something or other LC_PAPER was set to fi_FI.UTF-8; generating the fi_FI locales fixed it. 08:30:47 (Kind of stupef.) 08:31:14 What's wrong with en_FI.UTF-8? 08:32:55 "cannot open locale definition file `en_FI': No such file or directory" is what's wrong with it. 08:41:04 What's wrong with fi_FI.UTF-8, rather? 08:42:39 Nothing in particular, except that it hadn't been generated on the box I ssh to. 08:43:17 (In the context of LC_MESSAGES, what's wrong are the silly messages.) 08:44:44 (And I suppose the commas in context of LC_NUMERIC.) 08:46:14 Anyway, the "stupef" bit referred more to the fact that even if LC_PAPER is set to a locale that doesn't exist, it shouldn't break things that depend only on LC_CTYPE, which after all was set to a perfectly valid value. 09:28:57 But of course you want fi_FI on LC_{MONETARY,PAPER,ADDRESS,TELEPHONE,MEASUREMENT} so there's no reason to not have it generated. 09:29:45 fi_FI_FI 09:30:13 FI 09:31:22 http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=RrL2hLpCGwk&NR=1 wtf 09:32:24 @ask elliott http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=RrL2hLpCGwk&NR=1 wtf 09:32:24 Consider it noted. 09:32:29 im sure he';ll appreciate this video 09:32:54 Does the person actually think this looks real? At all? 09:33:13 @ask elliott Does the person actually think this looks real? At all? 09:33:13 Consider it noted. 09:33:22 (important commentary, not to be without) 09:33:31 @ask monqy monqy 09:33:31 Consider it noted. 09:33:36 @messages 09:33:36 shachaf asked 5s ago: monqy 09:33:43 thanks lambdabot 09:33:49 -!- sirdancealot7 has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 09:34:16 monqy: who's your favourite bot?? ?? 09:34:27 hm 09:34:31 tough choice! 09:34:34 i like a lot of bots 09:34:37 for different reasons 09:34:46 "you gotta choose" 09:34:46 they're incomparable, you could say 09:34:59 "bots form a semilattice" 09:35:43 in which direction is the join???? 09:36:00 up ! 09:36:06 : D 09:36:19 a good direction as any, I'd say 09:36:27 is it as good as: 09:36:32 southeast?? 09:36:57 southeast forms a semilattice with southeast as the top ! 09:36:58 and southsouthwest, and westnorthwest 09:37:08 and westwestwest 09:37:13 westwestwest is boring 09:37:22 three wests is overdone it! 09:37:30 Deewiant: Disk space! 09:37:33 eastwestwest 09:37:41 now you're getting somewhere 09:37:46 is the somewhere: west???? 09:37:52 data direction equals east or easteast or easteasteast 09:38:52 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 09:38:54 monqy: did you know: i'm a bot! ? 09:38:58 no 09:39:09 i always thought you were a shachaf............. 09:39:13 elliotts is also a bot :'( 09:39:15 have i been lied too????? 09:39:30 monqy: what if i=am shachaf bot?? 09:39:32 ???? 09:39:38 :o 09:39:38 mystery: solved 09:41:02 fizzie: Indeed, almost a 3.5" floppy disk's worth! 09:41:25 what about: a 3.5' floppy disk! 09:42:01 > 1.44/(3.5 * 3.5) 09:42:02 0.11755102040816326 09:42:28 > 0.11755102040816326 * (3.5*12 * 3.5*12) 09:42:28 207.35999999999999 09:42:42 > 1.44 \* 144 09:42:43 Not in scope: `\*' 09:42:50 Oops, I'm too used to the command line 09:42:52 > 1.44 * 144 09:42:53 207.35999999999999 09:42:56 that = a lot of megbytes. 09:43:01 Deewiant: You're making life too easy. 09:43:19 I bet I can make it even more complicated than that. 09:43:20 Yes, that's more than a zip disk! 09:43:20 Note that 1.44MB floppies are actually 1440*1024 bytes 09:43:38 @google 1440*1024 bytes in megabytes 09:43:39 1.40625 megabytes 09:43:39 http://support.microsoft.com/kb/121839 09:43:40 Title: Determining Actual Disk Size: Why 1.44 MB Should Be 1.40 MB 09:43:40 > 1440 * 1024 * 144 / 1024 / 1024 09:43:41 202.5 09:43:57 thanks microsoft knowledge base 09:44:05 thicrosoft thowledge thase 09:46:43 " There are 1024 bytes in a kilobyte, not 1000. " I'm glad Microsoft doesn't listen to HDD manufactureres 09:48:22 FreeFull: A HDD manufacturer would've called it a 1.47 MB floppy. 09:49:27 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 09:50:25 -!- MoALTz has joined. 09:51:13 > 1000 `isApproximatelyEqualTo` 1024 09:51:15 True 09:51:19 ∎ 09:51:35 > 1 `isApproximatelyEqualTo` 1024 09:51:37 False 09:52:44 useful function! 09:52:56 > 999 `isApproximatelyEqualTo` 1024 09:52:58 False 09:52:58 @src isApproximatelyEqualTo 09:52:58 Source not found. Maybe you made a typo? 09:53:04 Methinks it's been optimized for this situation. 09:54:58 Ideas how to disable Gnome desktop icons "nowadays" (Ubuntu 12.04)? The old 'gconftool /apps/nautilus/preferences/show_desktop to false' doesn't seem to do anything. 09:55:07 I think this is the Gnome 3 fallback mode or whatever. 09:56:15 Google speaks of a 'dconf-editor' but I don't have a thing like that. 09:57:24 -!- atriq has joined. 09:59:18 And apparently I can't run the dconf-editor binary from the package because "Settings schema 'ca.desrt.dconf-editor.Settings' is not installed". 09:59:44 Why make things simple when they could be complex? 10:00:09 Why use Gnome 3? 10:00:24 I'm not entirely sure, to be honest. 10:01:00 I just thought, since they've bothered to fiddle together a "Gnome 3 fallback + XMonad" session file in the package, I might as well use it, since it's so close to what I used to do here. 10:03:36 Maybe I'll just live with the icons for now; at least it'll make me clean up the ~/Desktop/ for some cruft that has inexplicably ended up in there. 10:03:58 Take a look at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MATE_%28desktop_environment%29 10:06:03 I can't be bothered to actually start attempting to install something on this thing, as a non-root person. 10:14:07 Ah 10:25:12 -!- Slereah has quit. 10:26:27 -!- Eladith has joined. 10:28:17 "Finally, the Department's Jura IMPRESSA Z5 coffee machine is (again) back from the maintenance -- Please observe that the IMPRESSA has a new usage policy: YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO USE THE IMPRESSA, unless you follow the usage policy at [url]. The reason for the strict policy is that the IMPRESSA has spent more time in maintenance than in active coffee service, because it has been broken several ... 10:28:23 ... times because of improper use. It is rather surprising in how many ways a complex scientific instrument like IMPRESSA, which has many buttons to push and parts to pull out etc., can be broken." 10:28:29 Man, this coffee machine is truly the gift that keeps on giving. 10:28:38 I don't even drink coffee, but the emails still manage to amuse. 10:30:34 The policy specifies Class A, B, C and D licenses for the coffee machine, and lists actions that you may perform at the different levels. 10:32:14 [Without a license:] "2. You are allowed to perform ONLY the following action: a. IF the display has a text COFFEE READY: i. Place a cup under the hot water spout (11). ii. Press the desired product button (10–12). iii. Wait WITHOUT TOUCHING ANYTHING until the cup is filled and the text COFFEE READY is displayed again. DO NOT TOUCH JURA if any other text than COFFEE READY is displayed, ... 10:32:20 ... strange sounds are emitted, or there are no lights, or if there are blinking lights! Instead, please contact a Jura License holder." 10:32:28 Coffee machines: serious business. 10:33:28 There's also a Google Docs provided online exam for qualification to the first level (Class A). 10:38:57 With amusing questions. 10:40:27 "c. Escape from the crime scene." 10:40:31 The answers are not bad either. 10:41:03 Yes, they provide most of the amusement. 10:41:45 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 10:47:05 -!- derdon has joined. 10:55:04 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 10:55:09 -!- DH____ has joined. 10:55:25 I'm going to make my computer cry in suffering and try to install Eclipse+Counterclockwise 11:01:46 -!- asiekierka has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 11:01:53 -!- Arc_Koen has joined. 11:03:36 hello 11:04:14 `WELCOME Arc_Koen 11:04:23 ARC_KOEN: WELCOME TO THE INTERNATIONAL HUB FOR ESOTERIC PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE DESIGN AND DEPLOYMENT! FOR MORE INFORMATION, CHECK OUT OUR WIKI: HTTP://ESOLANGS.ORG/WIKI/MAIN_PAGE. (FOR THE OTHER KIND OF ESOTERICA, TRY #ESOTERIC ON IRC.DAL.NET.) 11:10:34 I didn't know it had an ALL-CAPITALS version 11:10:52 Well, now you do. 11:10:56 The link doesn't work though. 11:11:04 `WELCOME FreeFull 11:11:08 ​FREEFULL: WELCOME TO THE INTERNATIONAL HUB FOR ESOTERIC PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE DESIGN AND DEPLOYMENT! FOR MORE INFORMATION, CHECK OUT OUR WIKI: HTTP://ESOLAN 11:11:14 Does that link work? 11:11:43 `WeLcOmE 11:11:47 WeLcOmE To tHe iNtErNaTiOnAl hUb fOr eSoTeRiC PrOgRaMmInG LaNgUaGe dEsIgN AnD DePlOyMeNt! FoR MoRe iNfOrMaTiOn, ChEcK OuT OuR WiKi: HtTp://eSoLaNgS.OrG/WiKi/mAiN_PaGe. (fOr tHe oThEr kInD Of eSoTeRiCa, TrY #eSoTeRiC On iRc.dAl.nEt.) 11:11:57 The link is cut off, isn't it? 11:11:59 It's cut off after N so nope. 11:12:09 `WELcome 11:12:12 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: WELcome: not found 11:12:27 The mixed-caps link doesn't work either, though. 11:14:59 Hey, wow. 11:15:15 If I type in http://ESOLANGS.ORG/ in Chrome, it goes to esolangs.org. 11:15:25 What! 11:15:30 Scum. 11:15:49 "HTTP://ESOLANGS.ORG" only does a Google search, though. 11:15:58 might be something they put in the idna "standard" 11:16:29 "i don't need a" "standard" 11:17:10 Straight-forward punycode on it would go to xn--mi7chahsld1af.xn--si7cpaj which I doubt exists. 11:17:16 Especially the xn--si7cpaj TLD. 11:17:38 xn-himonqy-xn.com 11:18:04 `quote solidity 11:18:07 273) enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity 11:42:25 -!- atriq has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 11:49:08 Oh hey, GreaseMonkey's getting involved in Homestuck 11:49:15 11:49:22 hi 11:49:30 fizzie: It goes there in Firefox (15) as well. 11:53:18 -!- boily has joined. 12:07:43 http://ESOLANGS.ORG/ goes to esolangs.org in Firefox. http://xn--mi7chahsld1af.xn--si7cpaj/ doesn't though 12:13:53 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Slashes#Quine This is the best quine ever 12:27:36 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 12:28:09 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 12:32:49 -!- atriq has joined. 12:36:13 :) 12:47:46 -!- kinoSi has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:48:14 -!- kinoSi has joined. 12:54:43 -!- atriq has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 13:00:30 -!- cuttlefish has joined. 13:06:05 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 13:46:25 -!- sirdancealot has joined. 14:47:18 LC_ALL=fi_IRC.UTF-8 14:48:01 irc_EN. 14:48:33 I vaguely recall that you can use three-letter language codes in the first part, too, often. 14:52:11 presumably you can't use EN for the second part, though? 14:56:40 Beast Jesus is best Jesus. 14:58:49 LC_ALL=kw_GB.UTF-8 14:59:22 -!- impomatic has joined. 15:13:14 LC_ALL=fr_CA.utf-8 15:14:00 LC_ALL=C 15:17:30 :( 15:19:05 en_GB.UTF-8 15:24:17 LC_ALL=C.UTF-8 15:27:12 -!- donmarquis has joined. 15:27:28 hello 15:27:55 hi donmarquis 15:28:09 lo 15:28:09 l 15:28:12 nuthead alert 15:28:47 hey mate do you know anyway of writing an if statement if 15:28:50 brainfuck 15:28:56 *in brainfuck] 15:29:18 -!- heroux has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:30:32 use the loop commands [] 15:30:54 with a body which makes sure the loop condition will be false on the next iteration 15:32:49 example mate ? 15:32:56 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++>+[<..>-] 15:33:05 im kind of a beginner :P 15:33:31 (that moves to a cell that contains 0) 15:33:54 ^bf +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++>+[<..>-] 15:33:54 ## 15:34:00 ^bf +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++>[<..>-] 15:35:10 Do you get it? 15:35:12 [foo] means while (current cell is not 0) { foo } 15:35:30 so if the end of "foo" makes the current cell 0, by decrementing it or by moving to a different cell 15:35:38 then it's equivalent to if (current cell is not 0) { ... } 15:37:26 -!- atriq has joined. 15:37:55 Hello atriq 15:38:01 ... 15:38:02 Hey 15:38:03 Don't try to use brainfuck for anything serious unless you really want to 15:38:42 I think that's true of most esolangs 15:38:50 Maybe except Funge-98 15:39:26 Funges are cool 15:39:45 well i want to write a simple program :P nothing serious though 15:40:42 Well, brainfuck is called a turing tarpit for a reason 15:41:11 I bet most people who work with brainfuck actually end up writing programs to write the brainfuck for them 15:41:58 exactly 15:42:43 hi atriq 15:42:48 Hello 15:42:51 AAaaaaah 15:44:51 to write the brainfuck ? 15:45:15 Yes, a compiler or preprocessor 15:48:58 Oh, right; well, irc_FI, for the Finnish regional variant of the "IRC" language, and fi_IRC for the Finnish language as spoken in IRC, then. 15:51:36 atriq: I'm not sure you should be advocating even Funge-98 use in a "serious context" without the unless-you-want-to qualifier, even though it's admittedly a more feasible proposition than many other esolangs. 15:56:28 -!- Vorpal has joined. 15:57:19 -!- zzo38 has joined. 16:14:32 -!- DH____ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:24:18 -!- atriq has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 16:44:08 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: impomatic). 16:51:49 -!- atriq has joined. 16:53:11 I am beginning to hate Eclipse 16:53:18 (Only because of what I assume is a bug) 16:57:26 -!- kinoSi0 has joined. 17:06:36 -!- kinoSi has quit (*.net *.split). 17:06:36 -!- AnotherTest has quit (*.net *.split). 17:06:36 -!- chickenzilla has quit (*.net *.split). 17:08:55 -!- chickenzilla has joined. 17:10:19 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 17:17:19 hmm I'm trying to write an ocaml interpreter for Fueue http://esolangs.org/wiki/Fueue 17:18:34 it's a queue-based language; apparently when the top element is a function, you must first check if the following elements are values of the appropriate type to be that function's parameters 17:18:52 except some function (+, *, /, for instance) are expecting two elements 17:19:56 and I can only "look" at the first element; if I want to see the second, I must first pop the first element... and if the second element is not suited for the function, I have to put the first one back on top of the queue... 17:20:09 which is not possible since it's a queue 17:20:27 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:21:35 would you guys have any ideas? (besides pushing the first element at the end of the queue and then making a full queue rotation to have it on top again) 17:22:05 Use a structure other than a queue? 17:23:34 are you implying I got fooled by the "Fueue is a http://esolangs.org/wiki/Queue-based http://esolangs.org/wiki/Esoteric_programming_language" at the beginning of the wiki page? 17:24:31 You have no way of peeking ahead in the queue? 17:24:35 Oh 17:25:02 Wouldn't be a problem if you used Haskell, since you would be able to peek, yet still have the old queue 17:25:18 I guess I'd have to make my own chained-list queue 17:25:20 It's mutability's fault :p 17:25:39 ocaml only allows me to pop the first element, peek the first element, and push an element 17:25:43 well, thanks :) 17:29:27 -!- ogrom has joined. 17:31:22 You could temporarily store them in a different data structure 17:39:26 With Haskell it is possible to program in what is allowed and what is not allowed. 17:42:16 Funny, I'm beginning to get frustrated with Clojure sandboxes 17:42:23 @ping 17:42:23 pong 17:43:28 Oh, that's not a good sign 17:43:39 -!- copumpkin has changed nick to pirateat41. 17:43:58 -!- impomatic has joined. 17:44:43 I was trying to invent and implement WizardCard programming language, although I might want to change it more similar to Lisp and/or Scheme. It is for compiling into Haskell. Maybe there should be an explicit syntax to indicate where a symbol is declared though, and I think it should have rulebooks like in Inform 7 but first-class rulebooks (as well as first-class functions). 17:45:42 However I am not exactly sure. Opinions? 17:46:19 -!- pirateat41 has changed nick to copumpkin. 17:46:47 One of the features I intended it to have is some mechanism by which it can read text from Magic: the Gathering cards and similar games and convert them into the AST. 17:56:48 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 17:58:41 -!- atriq has quit (Read error: Connection timed out). 18:13:06 -!- augur has joined. 18:24:01 -!- atriq has joined. 18:24:31 Today's Freefall is quite good 18:26:13 -!- asiekierka has joined. 18:29:49 Sam doesn't need to know what he's doing 18:31:47 I also liked today's Girl Genius 18:32:10 Today's xkcd reminded me of an old Brawl in the Family 18:38:26 i like http://what-if.xkcd.com/8/ 18:38:39 Yeah, that was good 18:38:41 except that i don't think randall munroe knows what "light rail" is 18:39:01 but, common mistake :) 18:41:16 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:44:16 -!- Eladith has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 18:55:48 -!- sivoais has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 18:55:54 -!- donmarquis has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 18:57:02 Are Clojure developers always going to make the language uglier in their pursuit of performance? 18:57:11 Yes? 18:57:32 Clojure's the lispy one for JVM, right? 18:57:59 Yeah 18:59:03 Performance is the reason arithmetic doesn't automatically go up to BigInteger if needed 19:00:39 nearly every language does that to some degree 19:00:50 almost no language "always" does that 19:02:04 ø_ø 19:02:14 °_° 19:03:00 that one looks like Roberto from Futurama 19:08:57 -!- sivoais has joined. 19:18:47 i like trains 19:18:49 -!- ais523 has joined. 19:19:41 -!- mtve has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 19:20:02 -!- mtve has joined. 19:23:07 -!- nortti has joined. 19:27:20 -!- nortti has changed nick to nortti_. 19:29:21 kmc: trains are cool. we just don't have enough of them here to satisfy the generic trainspotter's appetite. 19:29:36 * boily has repressed trainspotter tendencies. 19:30:29 -!- Eladith has joined. 19:34:37 Mountains are nice. 19:35:04 * impomatic prefers mountains to trains 19:35:06 here = where? 19:35:20 On the channel. 19:35:25 I've seen very few trains on #esoteric. 19:36:13 kmc: here = montréal. 19:38:21 ah 19:38:41 I'd paste U+1F684 HIGH-SPEED TRAIN, U+1F685 HIGH-SPEED TRAIN WITH BULLET NOSE and U+1F686 TRAIN to remedy the #esoteric train situation, but I'm afraid some piece of software or another would just eat the astral planes, and then it'd be all embarrassing. 19:38:46 🚄 🚅 🚆 WORTH A TRY 19:39:20 Doesn't look very promising. 19:39:28 (Nothing ever works out right.) 19:40:28 Well, I'unno; in my bouncer log they do seem like reasonable UTF-8 sequences. 19:40:37 Don't have the fonts, of course. 19:42:38 i don't have the fonts, and mosh doesn't have the character info either 19:43:11 there was a trains and trams theme day on #esoteric a while ago, I think it was when kmc was in estonia 19:43:14 boily: well, there is a metro at least 19:43:52 it might also have been a few sentences about trains, but a trains and trams theme day sounds like more fun 19:44:08 an interesting system, with rubber tires and automatic train control 19:45:05 and electromagnetic brakes 19:46:03 There was a plan to upgrade the Helsinki metro trains to some kind of automatic control, in negotiations right this summer, and it was this || close to happening, but at the last possible moments the talks with Siemens (I think) broke down, and they opted not to. 19:46:41 At least I think that's what happened. They announced they weren't going ahead with the deal, then they announced they actually still are going ahead with it, and finally they announced again that it's not going to happen. 19:46:48 They may have flopped once more for all I know. 19:48:29 -!- atriq has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 19:55:00 -!- ogrom has quit (Quit: Left). 19:56:33 kmc: the metro is nice, if not a little bit too warm in the summer. 19:57:52 -!- oerjan has joined. 20:01:26 so this dr who thing is british or did i take the wrong one? <-- now you got me considering the idea of an american remake... 20:03:47 omg, an american doctor who ... that could be the worst thing ever 20:03:49 oerjan: The "Doctor What", then? 20:04:31 obviously. 20:05:16 I think the americans will have difficulty understanding that kind of wordplay 20:05:37 it would be "Doctor Time" 20:05:38 except that the american version is always better 20:05:42 in everything 20:05:50 oklopol: Also bigger. 20:06:21 doctor who is a play on words? :D 20:06:57 Oh. No oerjan. <-- shocking. 20:07:08 i thought it just meant like "doctor *who*??" 20:07:16 i shall assume he wanted me to ban shachaf for being a soundnfury/cheater chimera 20:07:19 because no one knows who he is and shit 20:07:23 anyway nig 20:07:24 h 20:07:25 t 20:08:06 oerjan: That's an eminently portmanteauable word-pair. I shall be saying "oh, noerjan" a lot in the future, if I just remember to. 20:08:07 oklopol: i think it's clearly established his name is not "who", at least 20:09:01 fizzie: that's ok my log search will find that. 20:09:21 oerjan: Am I? 20:09:30 shachaf: the logs clearly suggest it 20:09:56 soundnfury 'n' cheater combined 20:11:51 -!- elliott has joined. 20:12:14 oerjan: You should op me. 20:12:40 i suddenly have this _remarkable_ sense of deja vu 20:13:17 I promise to voice oerjan. 20:14:15 -!- asiekierka has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:14:33 that oerjan guy doesn't deserve a voice, he just blathers nonsense. 20:14:45 OK. I promise to voice ais523. 20:15:05 will that make him complete feather? 20:15:50 Yes. 20:15:52 Or no. 20:15:54 Nobody can tell. 20:16:00 It'll just be whatever is best for the universe. 20:16:00 ah. 20:16:02 That's my promise. 20:16:42 i dunno, whatever is best for the universe has a tendency to be painful for me 20:16:47 -!- asiekierka has joined. 20:17:07 oerjan: But you are the universe! 20:17:10 I guarantee it. 20:17:33 i was afraid of that. 20:17:55 oerjan: But there is no fear! I also guarantee this. 20:17:58 elliott: Wait, were you telling oerjan to ban me? 20:17:58 i read that "the egg" thing, i thought it seemed depressing 20:18:32 shachaf: he never said what he wanted but that was the obvious conclusion. 20:18:53 elliott: Did you hear that I'm a soundnfury/cheater chimera? 20:19:33 I won't ban shachaf. That's my promise. 20:19:43 good, good. 20:19:55 (What "the egg" thing?) 20:20:06 elliott: ban shachaf 20:20:35 http://www.galactanet.com/oneoff/theegg_mod.html 20:20:40 olsner: I won't ban shachaf. But maybe I'll op you. 20:21:03 What if you op me? 20:21:09 @admin - elliott 20:21:20 why would you op me? 20:21:21 oerjan: Did you ever read Fine Structure? 20:21:27 `quote trust olsner 20:21:31 557) this strikes me as probably better than a singularity, because you can't trust a random AI, but you can probably trust olsner 20:21:35 nope 20:22:07 oerjan: It's good. 20:22:14 oh great, apparently you can probably trust me :( 20:22:17 shachaf: Did you ever read that blog post? 20:23:15 he meant what he said and he said what he meant, an olsner is faithful 100% 20:25:36 :-( 20:26:08 shachaf: Is that a no? 20:26:26 it's a frowney 20:27:07 a sad-ist? 20:27:20 oerjan: How about you just op olsner? 20:27:26 I mean, he's olsner. 20:28:13 what would the world look like if i started opping swedes 20:28:17 I read that as " olsner: How about you just op olsner?" 20:29:53 opsner 20:30:06 more like oopsner 20:30:41 øpjan 20:31:33 oerjan: olsner doesn't even count as a Swede. 20:31:36 He's too nice. 20:33:18 what, swedes are nice 20:36:43 as you can see, olsner is flawed 20:37:24 flød 20:37:40 more like flåd 20:38:49 olsner: Do you know Rust? 20:41:06 elliott: pretty sure I've read about it but I don't remember which one it is 20:41:53 It's the thing. 20:41:57 -!- Vorpal has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 20:42:00 shachaf: So did you read the post? 20:42:23 elliott: do you have followup questions that would motivate me googling for rust to refresh my memory? 20:42:34 olsner: Sort of? 20:43:37 neat, "It is designed to be practical" (says wikipedia anyway) 20:44:06 elliott, did you finish FS? 20:44:13 olsner: They have closures and stuff. 20:44:15 Sgeo: Ages ago, yes. 20:44:18 WOW CLOSURES 20:44:22 kmc: Yes! 20:44:22 BLEEDING EDGE TECHNOLOGY 20:44:32 -!- asiekierka has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:44:33 lol 20:45:00 -!- zzo38 has joined. 20:45:04 oh, remind me how closures doesn't really mean what most people think about when languages "have closures" 20:45:08 kmc: Well, they're not allocating everything on the heap and so on, so it's not as trivial as it could be. 20:45:23 yeah, Rust has some interesting uniqueness typing stuff going on 20:45:39 it's an attempt at a new systems programming language, made by people who know OCaml and Haskell in addition to C and C++ 20:45:44 unlike Go 20:45:45 kmc: I like uniqueness types. But edwardk tells me they're bad because they stop you doing a bunch of optimisations you really want and stuff. 20:45:49 hmm, wikipedia is bad for programming languages, it groups all the buzzwords in the first sentence making it sound like hogwash 20:45:49 But I don't want to believe him, because they're nice. 20:46:13 olsner: They have a tutorial thing. 20:46:15 Rust, I mean. 20:46:23 "an experimental, concurrent, multi-paradigm, compiled programming language [...] supporting pure-functional, concurrent-actor, imperative-procedural, and object-oriented styles." 20:46:51 do you have any experience with go? 20:46:53 take Java, dumb it down even more, and then make the syntax weird enough that C elitists will accept it 20:46:56 that's go 20:47:10 Go is pretty bad in a bunch of ways, but that's a silly way of putting it. 20:47:20 (It doesn't really have objects, for one.) 20:47:38 alGOl 20:47:40 it has x.f(y) syntax of course it has objects!!!!!!!! 20:47:55 objects, n. a module system 20:49:33 does it have anything good? 20:49:49 it's a memory-safe language attempting to eat C's market share 20:49:55 this is good 20:50:01 hmm, rust limits type inference to local variables? sounds a bit boring 20:50:05 i suspect nortti_ would like go 20:50:16 why? 20:50:29 because you're a go getter 20:50:31 What is uniqueness types? 20:50:34 it's hard to replace C because you have to convince C programmers that the new thing is not a slight to their manhood 20:50:48 you have to make your new language seem weird and H4RDC0R3 20:51:21 There are many programming languages for different use. 20:51:32 everyone knows Java is for "idiot code monkeys" 20:51:44 loljava 20:51:49 kmc: Have you written anything in ATS? 20:51:51 i'll gladly accept a near certainty of exploitable security holes in exchange for not being an "idiot code monkey" 20:51:55 no 20:52:00 ATS is incomprehensible 20:52:07 That's what they say about Haskell. 20:52:14 incomprehensible === really really good 20:52:14 ooh, burn 20:52:21 (I find ATS code usually looks pretty reasonable if you're not actually writing a algorithm with a proof of correctness.) 20:52:26 (Then it just looks like Agda.) 20:53:16 the only ATS code I've read is from the shootouts, and those programs are all written by a madman 20:53:29 (I think) 20:53:29 i thought those were basically C 20:53:59 using some ATS embedded C feature 20:57:47 kmc: You should write a Haskell compiler that compiles down to code faster than C. 20:57:53 Also make it better than Haskell. 20:57:54 I'd use that. 20:58:38 Also make it @ 20:58:51 elliott: Anyway, that already exists. 20:58:57 @google ndm supero 20:58:58 http://community.haskell.org/~ndm/supero/ 20:58:59 Title: Neil Mitchell - Supero 20:59:04 @quote monochrom einstein 20:59:04 monochrom says: einstein's theory implies that haskell cannot be faster than c 20:59:58 How can Einstein's theory imply that Haskell cannot be faster than C? I think it would depend much on the compilers and the computers it runs on. 21:00:24 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Slashes#Quine This is the best quine ever <-- you're welcome :) 21:00:26 zzo38: Einstein's theory implies that it cannot be faster than c. 21:00:28 shachaf: I don't think Supero is better than Haskell. 21:00:33 The language it compiles, I mean. 21:00:45 @ask monqy How can Einstein's theory imply that Haskell cannot be faster than C? I think it would depend much on the compilers and the computers it runs on. 21:00:45 Consider it noted. 21:01:29 @hi monqy 21:01:29 No match for "monqy". 21:01:44 monqy should quit smoking. :-( 21:01:45 zzo38, it's a joke, pretending to confuse C the language with c the physics constant. 21:02:00 GOOD JOKE 21:02:03 -!- heroux has joined. 21:02:11 oerjan: Also if you op me I will kick shachaf. 21:02:20 shachaf: also it's much better now that Sgeo explained it 21:02:39 I don't like it when people are left out of the loop 21:02:40 Sgeo: O, yes. 21:02:44 You are correct. 21:02:51 I forgot. 21:02:55 olsner: Did you write that quine? 21:03:00 elliott: You promised to not kick shachaf. :-( 21:03:11 shachaf: I lied. 21:03:18 FreeFull: no 21:03:23 for (;;) {}; 21:03:24 Sgeo; 21:03:28 #define ever (;;) 21:03:30 Sgeo: I left you out of the loop. 21:03:37 @ask monqy elliott = el-lie-ott. proof:: 14:03 shachaf: I lied. 21:03:37 Consider it noted. 21:03:46 el lie bot? 21:03:46 monqy should quit smoking. :-( <-- he clearly took up smoking to ease the "hi" abstinence 21:03:57 Smoking gets you hi. 21:05:26 There are better ways to get hi. :-( 21:06:33 (Where did this monqy smoking thing come from?) 21:06:35 shachaf: technically i think he only promised not to _ban_ you 21:07:00 @ask monqy never mind elliott was telling the truth. he lied when he said he lied :'( 21:07:00 Consider it noted. 21:07:08 -!- nortti_ has quit (Quit: AndroIRC - Android IRC Client ( http://www.androirc.com )). 21:07:16 FreeFull: i think you mistabexpanded 21:07:25 misbetareduced 21:07:26 (and yes i wrote it) 21:07:39 oerjan: Don't lie. olsner deserves the credit. 21:07:44 olsner: You're so good at ///! 21:07:46 well generated it with haskell 21:08:03 elliott: thanks 21:08:31 FreeFull: I wrote the quine, don't listen to the norwegian 21:08:59 FreeFull: I wrote that quine, don't listen to the Norwegian and the Swede. 21:09:03 op me and i'll kick oerjan for lying 21:10:10 shachaf: i suddenly wonder, does elliott mean something in hebrew? 21:10:50 it almost sounds like it could be a hebrew word 21:11:41 not enough consonants, I think 21:11:50 just heard on the news: "President Obama has declared Louisiana an emergency state – a state of emergency" 21:12:10 ais523: which news, i wonder 21:12:24 BBC news 21:12:32 I think they got it wrong twice 21:12:43 and it's one of those sentences that's just wrong enough to be confusing 21:12:56 oerjan: Nothing in particular, I think. 21:13:15 darn, i was hoping for "incorrigible liar" 21:14:41 incorrigible lyre 21:14:56 oerjan: you're the lying norwegian, why don't you just add that to the wisdom file? 21:15:03 shachaf: that sounds bad 21:15:07 `? oerjan 21:15:10 Your evil overlord oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. 21:15:17 `? shachaf 21:15:20 shachaf sprø som selleri 21:15:35 sprø = crispy? 21:15:40 Bitter? 21:15:49 Brittle. 21:15:53 * shachaf unable to read. :-( 21:16:00 `echo "Your evil overlord oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a lying Norwegian." >wisdom/oerjan 21:16:03 ​"Your evil overlord oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a lying Norwegian." >wisdom/oerjan 21:16:15 olsner: it means both crispy and crazy in norwegian 21:16:19 oerjan: Ew, double-spacing. 21:16:24 `echo "Your evil overlord oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a lying Norwegian." >wisdom/oerjan 21:16:27 ​"Your evil overlord oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a lying Norwegian." >wisdom/oerjan 21:16:28 ==elliott 21:16:31 Er. 21:16:35 `run echo "Your evil overlord oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a lying Norwegian." >wisdom/oerjan 21:16:38 No output. 21:16:43 shachaf: I think the corresponding swedish word does mean brittle as well 21:16:47 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 21:16:54 olsner: oh, that in norwegian too 21:17:09 well vaguely anyhow 21:17:29 but for crispy stuff we'd usually use krispig, not spröd 21:18:43 oerjan: btw, I meant that you should add to elliott's file that his name means incorrigible liar in hebrew 21:18:55 also "sprø som selleri" vaguely means something like "mad as a hatter" 21:19:01 `? elliott 21:19:04 elliott wrote this learn DB, and wrote or improved many of the other commands in this bot. He probably has done other things? 21:19:26 olsner: hm i am somewhat loathe to edit zzospeak 21:19:42 That's not zzo's peak! 21:19:57 zzo38 did not write my entry. 21:20:10 I think he did. 21:20:33 elliott: well then it's a good impression. 21:20:43 Not really. 21:20:50 It was Gregor. 21:20:56 always the argumentative 21:21:11 also "loathe" seems to be only a verb, what am i really thinking of? 21:21:36 oh loath 21:21:48 it's even listed under "not to be confused with" 21:22:30 oh, there are few things as annoying as realizing that you've needlessly listened to half the enterprise theme without using your ability to skip forward in the video 21:22:57 What about: realizing that you've needlessly listened to three quarters of the enterprise theme without using your ability to skip forward in the video 21:23:09 Or: realizing that you've needlessly listened to seven eighths the enterprise theme without using your ability to skip forward in the video 21:23:34 olsner: It's such a good theme, though!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SO GOOD. 21:23:44 What's the enterprise theme? 21:23:53 Bad. 21:23:56 Is that the Jave theme song? 21:24:50 Is it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8OpsPok6iQ 21:24:54 Because :-( 21:25:00 elliott: you know, I have a vague memory of arguing that it was not so bad 21:25:07 (I take it all back) 21:25:39 I think you did, yes. 21:26:30 otoh, the theme is not as bad as captain archer 21:28:35 -!- Yonkie has joined. 21:35:10 `welcome Yonkie 21:35:13 Yonkie: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 21:35:15 kmc: What should I port 100k lines of C++ to? 21:35:22 (Well, more like 80-90k lines.) 21:35:47 your butt 21:36:21 elliott: PL/I 21:54:20 hmm, I may have accidentally tried to change the topic 21:54:28 elliott: PHP 21:55:17 once again everyone is obsessing over languages 21:55:29 i thought that usage of "port" would mean a new platform 21:56:31 #esoteric stop obsessing over languages!! 21:56:35 kmc: The obsession is: I don't want to write any more C++. 21:56:42 So I want to port the code to something else. 21:56:51 elliott: Use an FFI! 21:56:56 Anyway, C++ isn't that bad. 21:56:56 if it's a platform port you're after, you want to port it to Symbian 2nd edition 21:57:02 I think it comes with gcc 2.7.2 21:57:51 -!- nys has joined. 21:59:17 elliott: port it to @ 21:59:37 No. 21:59:41 ice-9 21:59:44 Ok. 21:59:49 i-snine 21:59:49 `welcome nys 21:59:52 nys: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 21:59:58 i've already 21:59:59 i snine with my little nie 22:00:00 rrgh 22:00:03 `WElCOME NYS 22:00:06 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: WElCOME: not found 22:00:09 ...How do you mistype that? 22:00:18 nys: i've already rrgh too 22:00:24 shachaf: carefully 22:00:24 i mean 22:00:40 whateever 22:01:10 @yarr 22:01:10 I'll keel haul ya fer that! 22:01:21 nys: whatever? 22:01:31 whate ever 22:01:36 whateëver 22:01:37 shachaf: I think the unspoken rule is that you provide an alternate welcome text when you do that 22:01:44 i've already been welcomed twice is what i meant 22:01:55 olsner: It was unspoken until you spoke it. :-( 22:02:01 don't u remember me 22:02:02 -!- Arc_Koen has left. 22:02:07 the formerly unspoken rule 22:02:11 shachaf: alas it has become the spoken rule 22:02:11 I am bad at remembering people. :( 22:02:22 nys: your nick is too short to remember 22:02:24 well i guess i haven't really done anything memorable :3 22:02:39 although fortunately it means "sneeze" in norwegian 22:02:50 oh sweet 22:02:55 in swedish too 22:02:59 that's so cool 22:03:00 olsner: A spoken unspoken rule. 22:03:11 is it the actual word or the onomatapoeia 22:03:24 shachaf: maybe we'll still be ok as long as no one reads it aloud 22:03:31 actual word 22:03:44 this is awesome 22:03:45 the onomatopoeion would be "atsjo" 22:03:50 the imperative form of the verb even 22:03:52 sne̊e̊ze̊ 22:04:19 also the noun 22:04:29 oh? that's nysning here 22:04:38 a sneezing 22:06:47 well, nyssa is my actual name 22:07:32 i don't think that means anything in norwegian, although it sounds like it could be swedish 22:07:37 one too many s'es or it would've been "to sneeze" 22:08:17 or actually... 22:10:34 it could be the plural of http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/nyss , although no one ever uses that. 22:11:01 poor cods 22:11:11 (other than in the set phrase, that is) 22:11:40 erm http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/nyss#Etymology_2 22:11:51 the cods have the wrong plural ending 22:12:22 well that doesn't seem as cute as a sneeze 22:12:40 we'll just call you sneezy 22:13:09 aww :3 22:13:25 elliott is grumpy, or would that be me 22:13:49 shachaf: Hey, read that post. 22:14:04 oerjan: norwegians lack the ability to be anything but cheerful, must be elliott being grumpy 22:14:10 ah. 22:14:21 * oerjan cheerfully swats olsner -----### 22:14:41 aww 22:16:13 getting swatted with cheerfulness was a weird sensation 22:18:22 ban shachaf, he's threatening to leave IRC 22:18:37 Bolsner. 22:19:51 olsner: is he 22:19:59 Belliott. 22:20:00 Yum yum. 22:20:36 elliott: " I should probably leave IRC for a while, really." 22:20:45 uttered just moments ago in another channel 22:21:08 elliott: Remember revenantphx? 22:21:35 shachaf: Vaguely? 22:22:00 olsner: Make elliott make me read that post. 22:22:24 shachaf: what post? 22:22:32 That post. 22:23:52 elliott: how would you implement a logging system in Haskell that allows you to pull out logs of actions affecting only a given subset of things 22:23:55 elliott: am I interested in helping shachaf getting you to convince him to read that post? 22:24:14 (analogous to grabbing all commit messages that affect a certain file 22:24:41 coppro: that sounds easy but uninteresting to write 22:24:47 olsner: no 22:25:02 elliott: what would you use, though? Just a Writer? 22:25:25 shachaf: apparently I am not interested in helping you 22:25:30 -!- monqy has joined. 22:25:34 monqy! 22:25:37 either Writer directly, or just a free/prompt monad and handle the actual logging in a backend 22:25:41 @ask monqy why hello there 22:25:41 Consider it noted. 22:25:42 hi 22:25:42 monqy: You have 4 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. 22:25:44 free/prompt monad? 22:25:49 oh hey elliott is here !!! 22:25:54 occasion? 22:26:04 occasion. 22:26:04 monqy: complaninang :-( 22:26:11 coppro: free monad and/or prompt monad. (they are basically equivalent) 22:26:11 occaision 22:26:36 elliott: What's this called? newtype Stream m a b = Stream { runStream :: m (Either b (a, Stream m a b)) } 22:27:12 shachaf: ugly 22:27:28 no U gly 22:28:02 elliott: Did you know: Robert Harper posted another post about how laziness is bad! 22:28:42 Yes. 22:29:45 elliott: also what's your record on nested monads? 22:30:00 A monad nested... INSIDE ITSELF 22:30:17 M O N A D C E oerjan: kick shachaf :'( 22:30:33 coppro: What? 22:30:41 elliott: how many monads have you nested at once? 22:30:48 I don't know what a "nested monad" is. 22:30:54 Do you mean monad transformers? 22:32:35 yes 22:33:17 Probably like 5-6, but deeply-nested monad transformer stacks are a sign of bad design IMO 22:33:35 (Even monad transformers themselves are fairly ugly in a few ways, but some use of them tends to be a bit unavoidable.) 22:33:42 If you have a deeply-nested monad transformer stack... 22:33:53 You'd better arrange for it to be a deeply-tested monad transformer stack. 22:34:03 oerjan: kick shachaf :'( 22:34:36 elliott: well I'm looking at 3 different levels of nestedness 22:34:37 i cannot kick him, he's stuck in a non-allocating infinite loop 22:34:53 it's non-allocating because there is no actual content 22:34:57 coppro: you might be doing something wrong then ;) 22:35:05 Ouch. :-( 22:35:07 elliott: ok well I'm trying to write scripts for managing Agora state 22:35:28 elliott: the idea is that the log can be a (things, text) pair 22:35:41 elliott: Have you read GHC code? :-( 22:35:51 shachaf: Yes, it's bad. 22:36:06 coppro: OK. (It probably shouldn't be a tuple.) 22:36:18 elliott: or some other type which has the same info 22:36:52 Right. 22:37:18 then to make it easier, the 'things' half should be auto-generated based on operations, since some operations might affect multiple things (e.g. sending rubles to change voting limits would be logged both on the assessor and general secretary logs) 22:37:36 the obvious implementation of this is a Writer backed by a Set 22:37:59 possibly a third layer for emails 22:38:10 (but that layer is less necessary) 22:39:25 elliott: does this seem sane? 22:39:57 Set isn't even a monad... "Writer (Set a) r" doesn't involve any monad transformers 22:40:05 (well, except that Writer is implemented over WriterT over Identity) 22:40:16 (in fact, even if Set was a monad, that would not be a transformer stack) 22:41:17 but I'd have two Writers 22:41:22 don't think I'd need transformers here 22:41:29 but with Writer there's no difference 22:41:42 I'm not sure why you need two Writers here, maybe I'm missing something 22:43:08 one to turn actions on things into a set of tags 22:43:15 and another to create the actual log 22:43:38 What would your transformer stack look like in code? 22:44:15 not sure 22:44:22 haven't thought that far in advance :P 23:21:56 -!- pikhq has joined. 23:22:18 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 23:26:47 perhaps bonghits will fix your monad transformer stack 23:27:22 kmc: brilliant 23:27:24 thank you 23:27:26 a true genius 23:28:32 perhaps bonghitz will fix your monad transformer stack 23:28:48 * oerjan detects possible meme, still confused 23:35:52 Bong's Greatest Hits 23:36:06 greatest hitz 23:36:15 greatezt hitz 23:36:16 monqy: explain bonghitz to oerjan please 23:36:40 * shachaf >>= 23:36:43 I don't think bonghitz can be explained 23:36:45 only experienced 23:39:18 i'm not referring to the meaning of "bong hits" as the meme, it just looked like "perhaps bonghits will" might be a meme 23:39:55 ah something shows up 23:40:24 -!- Nisstyre_ has joined. 23:41:26 i find hits but no explanation of the source 23:42:37 it's from jerkcity 23:42:42 http://www.jerkcity.com/jerkcity490.html [nsfw language] 23:45:49 thx 23:47:08 thx 1138 23:49:40 -!- DHeadshot has joined.