< 1347064399 970092 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: you're not allowed to "use" things in Java, only "leverage" them < 1347064685 971946 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: did you enjoy < 1347064913 41995 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, someone has implemented Conway's game of life, and someone else a brainfuck interpreter... *in spacechem* < 1347064913 496392 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arc_Koen: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. < 1347064918 73099 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages < 1347064918 532911 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan said 2h 32m 30s ago: doesn't your brainfunct truth-machine have an off-by-one error? i.e. loops on '0' rather than '1' < 1347064919 42622 :evincar!~jon@70.42.240.22 JOIN :#esoteric < 1347064936 444209 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PART #esoteric :"Leaving" < 1347064998 335843 :Dovregubben!~kurt@c-67-160-13-34.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1347065020 682394 :Dovregubben!~kurt@c-67-160-13-34.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1347065021 140685 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> chr 48 < 1347065022 470237 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : '0' < 1347065049 85530 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1347065070 964192 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I wrote an interpreter for brainfunct and I checked the truth-machine, it was working < 1347065081 853439 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1347065089 735100 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wrote another interpreter and it didn't :/ < 1347065101 117849 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm maybe the functions are numbered differently < 1347065116 288653 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the cat works < 1347065141 796920 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird < 1347065153 718974 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> length "///////////////////////////////////////////////" < 1347065154 571166 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 47 < 1347065167 188133 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1347065175 269582 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I just copypasted it wrong < 1347065181 46856 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are 47 initial /'s, so the .@ function following them is on 48 < 1347065221 917503 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1347065234 238733 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and my interpreter just looped on 0 < 1347065277 910090 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, should be better now < 1347065347 350448 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :now it works < 1347065364 753046 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :funny thing, the brainfunct program is tail-recursive but my interpreter doesn't acknowledge that, because of the 'for' loop < 1347065395 833487 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I should fix that by taking the last step out of the for loop < 1347065417 205965 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :should I/O be binary or text-mode? < 1347065440 545044 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :textmode < 1347065452 2056 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :like all brainfuck-likes < 1347065466 838697 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> length "///////////////////////////////////////////////" < 1347065468 17925 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 47 < 1347065470 765002 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :erk < 1347066081 221985 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird, it should be tail recursive now, but it still says Stack_overflow < 1347066193 438405 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :> length [1..] < 1347066197 291686 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval-core: Time limit exceeded < 1347066525 758764 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :G. Steele seems to be much better than my current PG (Cahill) but they are too expensive. < 1347066575 15670 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION puts his haskell interpreter on the wiki page < 1347066622 592433 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, what, a Haskell interpreter in an esolang? < 1347066636 23879 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i distinctly expected that comment < 1347066649 27529 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but no, it's brainfunct in haskell < 1347066651 413410 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then your expectations are correct. < 1347066662 638857 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I honestly was confused, not trying to make a joke. I am unconfused < 1347066687 29038 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION fought hard not to make the joke < 1347066706 962494 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, hum, some guy wrote a brainfuck interpreter in spacechem < 1347066711 587724 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i couldn't resist keeping it in < 1347066726 796500 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arc_Koen: btw i support nesting < 1347066733 926738 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1347066742 567077 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have made one Haskell program on esolang wiki on its own page; the raw contents of the page are a valid Haskell program and the page can also be read like other wiki page. Such thing can be done with Haskell. < 1347066743 247411 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :in theory anyhow, i haven't tested except by modifying the cat < 1347066760 60176 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea how useful nesting can be, though < 1347066795 261023 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :" This is great news for you, and bad news for malware generators, because:" < 1347066806 436079 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, for all you know, blog post, I might be a malware generator! < 1347066814 207237 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is not in fact a malware generator. < 1347066821 438258 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzzLzUCRmBw&feature=player_embedded < 1347066848 351419 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Haskell sounds like a very hard to read ocaml < 1347066879 655486 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1347066893 649128 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ocaml syntax is fugly < 1347066898 481917 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell syntax is more complicated but nicer < 1347066941 99775 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: is it Literate Haskell? < 1347066970 353826 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :This game is difficult I only have one C so if he is injured, I am probably going to lose. < 1347066991 854746 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just checked and Literate Haskell is in the Report < 1347066992 65476 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Yes, it is Literate Haskell. You can embed Literate Haskell in HTML, XML, MediaWiki, TeX, and other formats without much difficult. < 1347066995 76923 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought it wasn't < 1347067007 355252 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Well, now you know. < 1347067033 567971 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and knowing is haf the battle < 1347067062 295707 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I'm not sure brainfunct is equivalent to brainfuck, actually < 1347067079 615890 :evincar!~jon@70.42.240.22 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1347067132 659555 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it lacks a test instruction - the truth-machine is a good example of this lack < 1347067218 716679 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone should start a band named The Regents of the University of California < 1347067233 757460 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Are you going to do so? < 1347067239 682731 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1347067276 29021 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arc_Koen: you can simulate brainfuck with a smaller cell size, i think < 1347067287 522872 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how so? < 1347067388 937404 :evincar!~jon@70.42.240.22 JOIN :#esoteric < 1347067400 391155 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's say you need k branch points in the program, and your brainfuck has cells 0 ... n-1, then you can add n*i where i is the number of your branch < 1347067423 246760 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :may need some off by one tweaking < 1347067472 189501 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hummmm I'm pretty sure I did not understand what you just said < 1347067473 233876 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and for this you need brainfunct cell values 1 .. n*k < 1347067545 476973 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it is 3 in the morning and I'm tired and I have to get up in 4h and a half so I'll read the logs tomorrow to try to understand < 1347067549 299492 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :see you < 1347067554 513837 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye < 1347067566 501400 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Quit: Are you telling me you can build a time machine but you can't cook a cheese soufflé? You've got your priorities all wrong! < 1347068025 643222 :evincar!~jon@70.42.240.22 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1347068118 289258 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does HackEgo have the JVM? Can it be installed? < 1347068151 972098 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`where java < 1347068158 775405 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run where java < 1347068163 136266 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: where: not found < 1347068171 461714 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :buh < 1347068180 278593 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash: where: command not found < 1347068236 460258 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run ls bin/j* < 1347068239 718553 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin/joustreport \ bin/jousturl \ bin/json < 1347068243 592296 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run ls /bin/j* < 1347068246 772504 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ls: cannot access /bin/j*: No such file or directory < 1347068252 673248 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls / < 1347068255 732731 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin \ dev \ etc \ hackenv \ home \ lib \ lib64 \ opt \ proc \ sbin \ sys \ tmp \ usr \ var < 1347068285 829590 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run ls /bin/*jc < 1347068288 149621 :evincar!~jon@70.42.240.22 JOIN :#esoteric < 1347068288 490866 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ls: cannot access /bin/*jc: No such file or directory < 1347068294 757175 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`where gjc < 1347068297 772579 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: where: not found < 1347068317 102717 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1347068355 491391 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run ls /usr/bin/j* < 1347068359 4356 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/usr/bin/jar \ /usr/bin/jarsigner \ /usr/bin/java \ /usr/bin/javac \ /usr/bin/javadoc \ /usr/bin/javah \ /usr/bin/javap \ /usr/bin/javaws \ /usr/bin/jcf-dump \ /usr/bin/jcf-dump-4.3 \ /usr/bin/jcf-dump-4.4 \ /usr/bin/jconsole \ /usr/bin/jdb \ /usr/bin/jexec \ /usr/bin/jhat \ /usr/bin/jinfo \ /usr/bin/jmap \ /usr/bin/join \ /usr/bin/jps \ /usr/bin/jrunscript \ /usr/bin/js \ /usr/bin/jsadebugd \ /usr/bin/jstack < 1347068364 16103 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :there you go < 1347068371 218453 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am now reading Java documentation < 1347068373 835009 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel sad at this < 1347068386 436554 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like I shouldn't have to read Java documentation < 1347068469 909696 :evincar!~jon@70.42.240.22 PART :#esoteric < 1347068586 774597 :Dovregubben!~kurt@c-67-160-13-34.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1347068622 502185 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ObjectFactoryBuilder < 1347068644 684454 :Dovregubben!~kurt@c-67-160-13-34.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1347068653 165765 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :StateFactory < 1347068664 812724 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ValueFactory < 1347068760 605929 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the workers in your factory are going to unionize < 1347068779 67960 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1347068789 619565 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does the Factory pattern have ... a name, exactly? < 1347068800 625693 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's so esoteric about a function that returns an object? < 1347068846 838107 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh... hm < 1347068875 884334 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1347068887 875624 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems like a problem easily solved by having classes be first-class < 1347068984 982416 :lexande_!arapp@minthe.ugcs.caltech.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1347069018 152400 :lexande_!arapp@minthe.ugcs.caltech.edu QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1347069039 386176 :lexande_!arapp@minthe.ugcs.caltech.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1347069049 148027 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1347069050 388400 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf < 1347069056 500347 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :why isn't arch linux's ghc package 7.6.1 yet < 1347069092 574911 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shocking < 1347069107 556096 :Dovregubben!~kurt@c-67-160-13-34.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1347069148 40689 :Dovregubben!~kurt@c-67-160-13-34.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1347069217 697046 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1347069221 28603 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am very displeased shachaf < 1347069434 497091 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i _almost_ made my first brainfuck interpreter today < 1347069442 474991 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :except it was brainfunct instead. < 1347069529 16482 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: sounds like you're brainfunct in the head < 1347069558 332105 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1347069559 12323 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA [audience applauds] [member of audience shot] [bomb explodes in the air] [confetti comes out of the bomb] [spontaneous party begins] < 1347069580 799813 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[everyone wakes up the next day smelling of petrol and thinking about puppies] < 1347069653 390753 :trout!root@freebsd/developer/variable NICK :variable < 1347069707 542295 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott is alive?? < 1347069746 643601 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as he gets fed enough brains < 1347069772 685195 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1347069782 65760 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[the face of a well-known politician covered in chocolate smiling forever] < 1347069812 535054 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[an image of your death but instead of you it's a cardboard cutout of bill, the guy in the photocopier] < 1347069826 82890 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is doall vs dorun always going to trip me up? < 1347069840 162414 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(For the Clojure impaired, doall is like sequence and dorun is like sequence_) < 1347069906 607602 :lexande_!arapp@minthe.ugcs.caltech.edu QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1347069925 462738 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, racist < 1347069988 657436 :lexande_!arapp@minthe.ugcs.caltech.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1347070124 686846 :mig22!~miguelort@bb116-15-65-102.singnet.com.sg JOIN :#esoteric < 1347071354 736954 :lexande_!arapp@minthe.ugcs.caltech.edu QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1347071503 243440 :lexande_!arapp@minthe.ugcs.caltech.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1347071801 242176 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1347071816 388677 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia JOIN :#esoteric < 1347072125 975659 :lexande_!arapp@minthe.ugcs.caltech.edu QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1347072450 406283 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Sorry. :-( < 1347072470 881483 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The Arch maintainers tried, but I kept getting in their way. < 1347072520 989829 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Thank you for your apology. < 1347072529 857359 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Do you know about upgrading GHc with the binary distribution? < 1347072537 492505 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Will it correctly uninstall stuff if I just run it or do I need to rm -r /opt/ghc? < 1347072538 730153 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1347072550 872332 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Why rm? < 1347072553 47685 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Disk space is cheap. < 1347072563 97719 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also a bunch of things aren't 7.6-compatible yet. < 1347072579 633543 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: rm as opposed to what? < 1347072608 90365 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :As opposed to not uninstall the old GHC. < 1347072612 79601 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can have more than one, you know. < 1347072616 251873 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 NICK :Phantom__Hoover < 1347072641 160240 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shocking < 1347072666 538355 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a combination VHS/DVD I want to know how to write software to replace the one on there, to add some features which are missing and to make it run faster. < 1347073061 528932 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: but /opt/ghc < 1347073066 207393 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not /opt/ghc-whateverversion < 1347073072 291919 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :/opt/ghc-7.4.1 apparently < 1347073079 627347 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: So? < 1347073086 326826 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where did it come to /opt/ghc from, anyway? < 1347073265 811628 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: From me putting it there. < 1347073287 77542 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Well, put GHC 7.6.1 in /opt/ghc-7.6.1 < 1347073289 371787 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :QED < 1347073306 284745 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's inconsistent. < 1347073327 376079 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, so's your AXIOM SYSTEM!!!!! < 1347073496 96071 :kinoSi!~kinosi@27-96-32-84.ipq.jp QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1347073522 281160 :kinoSi!~kinosi@27-96-32-84.ipq.jp JOIN :#esoteric < 1347073572 43492 :Dovregubben!~kurt@c-67-160-13-34.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1347073614 313324 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: So what's not 7.6 compatible? < 1347073618 401127 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have this thing I want to write in 7.6. < 1347073631 233195 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Just install 7.6 and keep 7.4. < 1347073632 278755 :Dovregubben!~kurt@c-67-160-13-34.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1347073643 405087 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you can find out "4 urselv!!" < 1347073665 330477 :lexande_!arapp@minthe.ugcs.caltech.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1347073677 196811 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I don't want to. < 1347073690 61520 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: You have to tell me as an apology for stopping the Arch maintainers. < 1347073696 283308 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1347073703 477260 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :TypeCompose is broken in 7.6!!!!!!! < 1347073749 873848 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh no!!! < 1347073752 755627 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't use that package. < 1347073756 888105 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does edwardk's stuff work? < 1347073782 474461 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1347073830 195289 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Want a "free tip" on making things not break with 7.6? < 1347073849 129364 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Take "constraint: containers < 0.5" out of your ~/.cabal/config < 1347073867 372814 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ur wellcome :\"(" < 1347073897 454873 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I don't think I have that in my ~/.cabal/config. < 1347073903 732021 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: So what's broken, seriously? < 1347073928 388944 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember. < 1347073944 488848 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :happy is broken unless you meddle with it. < 1347073946 365127 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Which I did.) < 1347073951 581462 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you have to meddle it? < 1347073958 431148 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something about exceptions. < 1347073968 692177 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ghc-core is broken. < 1347073975 988984 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because they took out Control.OldException. < 1347073979 725020 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything that uses that is broken. < 1347074043 903002 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, good thing about the Clojure ecosystem, which I assume is because of Java classpaths: There's no system-wide library installation < 1347074051 520214 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just project-local installation < 1347074072 468598 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not enough to solve all issues with dependencies, but it's a start < 1347074324 710171 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`1`0`9i90`i190`i190`i1u90348u5901809t89008210`0`0`89`8989`89189`18989`891889`8989289`89289`89289`89289`89289`892`8929`8939128989489`89589`9789`89589`8975897`897587`894892899899042045t89290845t9030r90u90gjrtgjr < 1347074327 342157 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: 1`0`9i90`i190`i190`i1u90348u5901809t89008210`0`0`89`8989`89189`18989`891889`8989289`89289`89289`89289`89289`892`8929`8939128989489`89589`9789`89589`8975897`897587`894892899899042045t89290845t9030r90u90gjrtgjr: not found < 1347074331 497806 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey shachaf < 1347074357 574861 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi monqy < 1347074362 666498 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[elliott@dinky tmp]$ sudo rm -rf /opt/ghc/ < 1347074362 836069 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Password: < 1347074362 854635 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[elliott@dinky tmp]$ < 1347074365 637026 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-) < 1347074523 827543 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :checking for path to top of build tree... utils/ghc-pwd/dist-install/build/tmp/ghc-pwd: error while loading shared libraries: libgmp.so.3: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory < 1347074523 998219 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :configure: error: cannot determine current directory < 1347074525 139800 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Help < 1347074550 526501 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Should've mved instead of rmed. < 1347074559 976408 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You need libgmp3, not libgmp10. < 1347074571 481596 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: If you still had GHC 7.4 you could use it to compile 7.6! < 1347074596 308656 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have enough time to compile GHC. < 1347074603 723698 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do I need GMP 3? < 1347074607 289595 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That makes me unhappy. < 1347074619 919454 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :File a bug report on it. < 1347074623 784344 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait, there already is one! < 1347074631 636387 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which says that the next release will use a newer GMP. < 1347074644 618464 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And when was that written? < 1347074710 287290 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did I miss anything in RogueVM? I want to ensure I have not missed anything important! < 1347074764 224905 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: About a week ago? < 1347074777 564465 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I think I've made up for the thing I did. < 1347074792 895055 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::: Replace libsystemd with core/systemd? [Y/n] y < 1347074793 68335 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::: Replace systemd-tools with core/systemd? [Y/n] y < 1347074794 899769 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Help? < 1347074814 980729 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You know I've never used Arch, right? < 1347074826 571868 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who cares? < 1347074846 531717 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should try rm -rf /opt < 1347074867 220141 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ls /opt < 1347074867 737187 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :df_linux < 1347074871 660293 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh no, I'd lose Dwarf Fortress!!! < 1347074904 491674 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric : df - report file system disk space usage < 1347074914 161481 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not darawfw froteres! < 1347074935 149745 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :% ls /opt < 1347074937 272150 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :amnesia apt-local google < 1347075054 713462 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1347075068 867107 :ogrom!~del@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1347075101 108899 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1347075784 929588 :lexande_!arapp@minthe.ugcs.caltech.edu QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1347076740 968892 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Is GHC's kind-level programming still basically unityped? < 1347076756 356520 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if I'm expressing what I mean properly. < 1347076817 90096 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: There's this whole promotion thing... < 1347076822 422808 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Here's what I mean: < 1347076823 393835 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I do < 1347076836 720454 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Foo a where Blah :: (C a) => a -> Foo a, < 1347076841 766638 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what happens to the (C a) when I do 'Blah? < 1347076845 618546 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait, GADTs don't get lifted. < 1347076850 546493 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, translate that into the relevant ADT syntax. < 1347076857 368093 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I guess I can just use an existence proof, actually. < 1347076862 915984 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except I don't think that will translate. Woe. < 1347076878 651114 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa is me, dude < 1347076929 577290 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: What's the extension to allow type-level literals again? < 1347076965 979026 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: GHC will tell you if you try to use one! < 1347077013 835305 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Have you guessed what I'm trying to do yet? < 1347077018 478749 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1347077022 776695 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :look around you, just look around you < 1347077027 182069 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you worked out what we're looking for? < 1347077119 241733 :kmc_!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1347077137 277735 :Dovregubben!~kurt@c-67-160-13-34.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1347077190 130628 :Dovregubben!~kurt@c-67-160-13-34.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1347077238 298326 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Do you have TypeEq handy? < 1347077245 12985 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need it. For this thing. < 1347077259 348909 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, is "type instance Foo t t = ..." valid? < 1347077261 308995 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If so I might not need it. < 1347077287 708441 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh wait, there's < 1347077288 560322 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :class m (<=) n Source < 1347077288 768061 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Comparsion of type-level naturals. < 1347077308 917840 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, why is there <= but no ==? < 1347077315 840650 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, hmm. < 1347077340 849233 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could make == by using <= I suppose < 1347077509 209141 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1347078037 6727 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Hah! I did it! Well, partially, at least. < 1347078059 979376 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: In spite of my best afforts! < 1347078072 893659 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: http://sprunge.us/RAHN < 1347078081 283629 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can RAHN but you can't HIDE. < 1347078091 277809 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ran and Lan, right? < 1347078160 985211 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such lovely types, too: test :: Record (Cons * * "x" Integer (Cons * * "y" Integer Empty)) < 1347078187 983222 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Data constructor `Empty' cannot be used here < 1347078188 153945 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : (it is defined and used in the same recursive group) < 1347078189 251709 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aw, c'mon. < 1347078260 64228 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Do you like it? < 1347078306 282077 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't read it. < 1347078325 671355 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Now's your chance to change that! < 1347079055 17064 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : JoeyA: They make Haskell compilers in Haskell for the same reason that ugly men date beautiful women: 1) Because it's enjoyable; 2) Because they can. ;) < 1347079062 860121 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: You know, I didn't think it was possible, but #haskell actually got worse since I left. < 1347079077 575565 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc the prophet < 1347079097 597249 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell failed at its primary mission. < 1347079102 882831 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And now it is but an abomination. < 1347079122 861169 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Its primary mission is what? < 1347079131 548585 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: YayMe is one of Those Guys, right? < 1347079192 323766 :kmc_!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :its primary mission was to unify research in lazy functional programming behind one language < 1347079196 449969 :kmc_!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it succeeded at that < 1347079207 394781 :kmc_!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think that's a mission that's only relevant to like 100 people < 1347079226 112783 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Its primary mission is to avoid popularity at all costs. < 1347079235 721199 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1347079237 469250 :kmc_!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net NICK :kmc < 1347079333 798386 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I'm trying GHC 7.6 but its kind system isn't advanced enough. :( < 1347079340 693708 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need kind-level typeclass constraints, you see. < 1347079351 551103 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And proper GADT lifting. < 1347079369 39627 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wanted to invent Ibtlfmm, to have kind-level typeclass constraints and various other things < 1347079453 156386 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :eek < 1347079473 459979 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because typeclass constraints on kinds is something I wanted too < 1347079475 32222 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is imagining elliott being tempted by Ibtlfmm < 1347079488 540905 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It isn't only you! < 1347079534 459107 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I... guess that's reassuring? < 1347079541 76440 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know. < 1347081015 907447 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: :-( < 1347081054 99503 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1347081062 705597 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: : - ) < 1347082294 461874 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what's your opinion of the Eclipse Public License? < 1347082317 202494 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I think so. < 1347082409 380467 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1347082456 761491 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Am I one of "Those Guys"? < 1347082475 606037 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make a pokemon card puzzle requiring to retreat six times. < 1347082909 130661 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1347085652 897238 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you ever tried inverting some piece of music? < 1347085951 208429 :Dovregubben!~kurt@c-67-160-13-34.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1347085991 166171 :Dovregubben!~kurt@c-67-160-13-34.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1347086054 867374 :elliott!~dajfsa@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1347086060 646421 :elliott!~dajfsa@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: You didn't tell me *cabal-install* was broken. < 1347086066 473020 :elliott!~dajfsa@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Come on, now my window manager is broken. < 1347086135 253 :elliott!~dajfsa@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: And *mtl* is broken. < 1347086222 936008 :elliott!~dajfsa@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Client Quit < 1347087245 3221 :Dovregubben!~kurt@c-67-160-13-34.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1347087599 585385 :Dovregubben!~kurt@c-67-160-13-34.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1347088396 476875 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1347088726 949075 :epicmonkey_!~epicmonke@188.134.41.211 JOIN :#esoteric < 1347089275 225195 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1347089624 316544 :ogrom!~del@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1347089922 673905 :impomatic!~digital_w@46.208.99.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, sgeo: what's your opinion on EPL. What's your preferred license? < 1347089963 307960 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't read it, but from what I know about it, it seems like an interesting idea < 1347090102 243729 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although... I do think I'd prefer my code to be usable from/with proprietary code, so I'd probably lean more BSD-ish. But EPL might be better than GPL for that goal < 1347090108 475790 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the goal that GPL has) < 1347090140 433682 :impomatic!~digital_w@46.208.99.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the fact the BSD license is short. < 1347090217 679527 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, if Clojure, and about a million Clojure libraries, are under the EPL, does that make Clojure unsuitable for making proprietary programs? < 1347090219 3653 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ask elliott Worked fine for me. < 1347090219 174072 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1347090543 735022 :impomatic!~digital_w@46.208.99.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is shorter though -> "Do What The Fuck You Want To Public License" http://sam.zoy.org/wtfpl :-) < 1347090594 197373 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm narciccistic enough to want my name attached to code I write < 1347090594 216820 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1347090706 876313 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I strive to only write things that are useless enough that the license is irrelevant < 1347090997 573963 :Dovregubben!~kurt@c-67-160-13-34.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1347091027 248163 :Dovregubben!~kurt@c-67-160-13-34.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1347091380 925053 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My gf linked me to http://www.esecurityplanet.com/hackers/yahoo-password-breach-puts-sql-injection-in-the-crosshairs.html < 1347091411 563768 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOW DOES ANYONE IN THIS DAY AND AGE STILL BE VULNERABLE TO SQL INJECTION < 1347092287 131711 :soundnfury!~edward@static-87-243-208-102.adsl.hotchilli.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1347092903 38679 :sirdancealot!~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1347093042 317816 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-23-251.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1347093048 361920 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-23-251.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1347093315 548856 :ogrom!~del@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1347094479 738553 :sirdancealot!~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz JOIN :#esoteric < 1347094668 643658 :impomatic!~digital_w@46.208.99.87 PART :#esoteric < 1347095897 364334 :MoALTz!~no@host-92-8-146-155.as43234.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1347096866 334639 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1347102601 873117 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal JOIN :#esoteric < 1347103365 58673 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1347103397 351129 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1347103466 543731 :Slereah_!~jackal@ANantes-259-1-193-122.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi < 1347103525 820654 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-23-251.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1347104102 465246 :shubshub!~IceChat9@125-239-83-70.jetstream.xtra.co.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1347104559 632641 :itidus20!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1347104571 226089 :itidus20!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au NICK :itidus21 < 1347106672 749615 :shubshub!~IceChat9@125-239-83-70.jetstream.xtra.co.nz QUIT :Quit: Make it idiot proof and someone will make a better idiot. < 1347107502 421962 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-23-251.access.telenet.be QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1347108163 428177 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1347108785 951846 :knott_rays!~androirc@37-136-153-35.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1347108805 433003 :knott_rays!~androirc@37-136-153-35.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi PART :#esoteric < 1347108840 23653 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-146-168-239.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1347109211 517837 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-146-168-239.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages? < 1347109211 689228 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, no messages today. < 1347111177 418031 :ogrom!~del@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1347112261 28599 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Simple. < 1347112270 72499 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Universities don't teach that. < 1347112637 655549 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :theres several things < 1347112685 415017 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you invest more time and energy in security systems, the people breaking the systems will simply adapt, and find new vulnerabilities < 1347112762 545340 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1347112914 356593 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :universities aren't going to spontaneously change, students aren't going to spontaneously change, i don't forsee anything changing < 1347113204 603727 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Software development involves writing software to address the problems found in previous software development. < 1347113365 669739 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/found/created/ ? :) < 1347113794 13483 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Same how buffer overflows are still the most common kind of vulnerability < 1347113818 362007 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I guess SQL injections aren't as fundamental < 1347113843 232949 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess what im wondering is whether it is important to place blame, and also who is to blame for sql injection vulnerabilities < 1347113864 35850 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is the whole system to blame < 1347113882 403909 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: Clearly the people who created SQL are to blame < 1347113895 371472 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :How dare they invent database technology < 1347113923 545513 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically i don't think blame is a perfect system, it's more like garbage collection < 1347113961 418701 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION references itidus21 without incrementing the reference counter < 1347113999 897620 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :its better that rubbish be centralized in landfills rather than distributed across the suburbs :D < 1347114022 279153 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but landfills are still a bother < 1347114057 885413 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the root problem is that too many programmers just don't know or care enough about security < 1347114077 877517 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: but what is the cause of that :D < 1347114084 973619 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather, what is that a symptom of? < 1347114112 266776 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :if "everyone" cared about preventing sql injections, maybe we wouldn't let all these database apis make it so simple to create them < 1347114118 943199 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-146-168-239.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, bad teaching < 1347114134 862977 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have also noted the ugly reality that in such an arms race the bad guys will also adapt and find new ways < 1347114167 979496 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :atriq: (im certainly trolling) what causes bad teaching? < 1347114188 475427 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's bad turtles all the way down < 1347114189 582283 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-146-168-239.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Itself < 1347114278 19816 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :if things are allowed to have causes, or if things are allowed to be symptoms of other things, then the buck can be hard to stop < 1347116491 924809 :ogrom!~del@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1347117049 786613 :Nisstyre-laptop!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre JOIN :#esoteric < 1347117219 48669 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1347118053 791058 :ogrom!~del@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee QUIT :Quit: Left < 1347118612 223485 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1347119395 509010 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-146-168-239.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (0 $ 0 `on`) < 1347119396 534602 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : The operator `on' [infixl 0] of a section < 1347119396 704921 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : must have lower precedence than that of the operand, < 1347119396 723427 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : namely `$' [infixr 0] < 1347119463 394916 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-146-168-239.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> ((*) `on` (+ 1)) 7 8 < 1347119464 370617 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 72 < 1347119467 816649 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-146-168-239.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> ((*) `on` (+ 1)) 7 3 < 1347119468 708217 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 32 < 1347119480 151463 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-146-168-239.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> ((*) `on` negate) 7 3 < 1347119481 43075 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 21 < 1347119504 571582 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-146-168-239.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exersize: do I get to set exersizes? < 1347119508 438235 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-146-168-239.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Discuss < 1347119530 181048 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :exersize is probably not the right spelling < 1347119541 418903 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-146-168-239.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1347119544 888467 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-146-168-239.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are right! < 1347119553 312851 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-146-168-239.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So the answer is "probably not"! < 1347119556 505497 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-146-168-239.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well done! < 1347119563 136438 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank you < 1347119570 512448 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :what did I win? < 1347119576 367323 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-146-168-239.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno < 1347119587 692386 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-146-168-239.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The right to go through to your kitchen and get a biscuit? < 1347119626 422005 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I have no biscuits < 1347119691 318999 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-146-168-239.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Go out to the store and buy some buscuits? < 1347119697 269440 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-146-168-239.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*biscuits < 1347119697 981488 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :no! < 1347119708 867729 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-146-168-239.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you not want a biscuit? < 1347119795 566684 :mig22!~miguelort@bb116-15-65-102.singnet.com.sg QUIT :Quit: mig22 < 1347119860 342303 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want to have to go and buy it myself < 1347119869 689758 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-146-168-239.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1347119876 738085 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-146-168-239.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Next time you are shopping < 1347119893 954250 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-146-168-239.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :See if you can convince the people < 1347119897 498439 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-146-168-239.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who sell you stuff < 1347119903 207839 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-146-168-239.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :To make me pay for the biscuit < 1347119974 389845 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, the end result of buying biscuits is just running out of biscuits again < 1347120006 923948 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-146-168-239.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But during the process of running out of biscuits < 1347120011 621881 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-146-168-239.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You get to eat biscuits! < 1347120021 682846 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-146-168-239.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hexham has a biscuit store < 1347120032 268736 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :do they sell cookies? < 1347120153 805462 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-146-168-239.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who knows? < 1347120172 717050 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-146-168-239.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(yes) < 1347120195 52556 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the difference between cookies and biscuits anyway? < 1347120573 318211 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1347120630 898741 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1347120738 256065 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-146-168-239.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not much unless you're in the US < 1347120897 481944 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1347120926 400671 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :nevermind < 1347120933 630289 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :my comment is unhelpful < 1347120959 275267 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed :) < 1347120996 589167 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh but it must be said < 1347121030 339805 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :the best way to find out the difference between a biscuit and a cookie is to get both and compare them < 1347121062 166674 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :one trouble here is... < 1347121068 540571 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :you might like the one you eat first more < 1347121075 152010 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it satiates your appetite < 1347121082 553637 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :the second one is making you feel full < 1347121264 824062 :Nisstyre-laptop!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1347121267 14209 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if we take away all such bias factors < 1347121303 377497 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :one way to experience a cookie is to see it, another is to eat it < 1347121320 969157 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :even to just look at the cookie we might be biased by which one we see first < 1347121406 550141 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i give up < 1347121640 441289 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-146-168-239.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is what large sample sizes are for < 1347121707 681688 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :so in the limit we find the actual thing? < 1347121779 64799 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, thats a reference to your in the limit you find douglas hofstadter < 1347121830 163012 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-146-168-239.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was.. < 1347121832 668923 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-146-168-239.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sort of mine < 1347121844 996815 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-146-168-239.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah < 1347121845 917042 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok you didn't say it < 1347121853 372595 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :well.. i mean maybe but probably not < 1347121866 746885 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-146-168-239.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover was partially responsible for it < 1347121878 723244 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-146-168-239.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :By partially I mean almost entirely < 1347121931 138721 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :so are humans good at sampling? < 1347121964 759443 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :another dumb question of mine < 1347122094 76847 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-146-168-239.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really < 1347122275 316833 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have at least a vague connection with this room. i don't really understand it. < 1347122291 905167 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-146-168-239.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's called friendship? < 1347122326 371145 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh.. i'm not sure. but something else. like i had been thinking about topics which come up here. < 1347122393 479419 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-146-168-239.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you are actually #esoteric < 1347122432 852821 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :like i had been thinking about fairy chess, and i was fascinated by the NES, and i had a strange habit of buying foreign language dictionaries < 1347122470 876573 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and... i had been gradually converging on grammar and language as being important. < 1347122517 640080 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i was buying up cheap books which had any relation to language < 1347122615 66193 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i heard about state machines from the mugen fighting game engine < 1347122655 185932 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i still haven't gone back to take a closer look at it < 1347122865 883577 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1347123017 460890 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-146-168-239.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bye! < 1347123018 357551 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-146-168-239.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1347123584 697706 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1347123902 9077 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1347125967 529935 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1347126096 839465 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-23-251.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1347126100 421824 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-23-251.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1347126131 890749 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-23-251.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :What Haskell IDE do you people use (if any)? < 1347126660 899593 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just have vim and ghci open in two windows < 1347126695 177503 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell is potentially a great language for very clever IDEs but i haven't seen a good one < 1347126705 405234 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i used leksah for a little while but it was buggy < 1347126965 926332 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-23-251.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might try leksah and hope it's not as buggy on my system < 1347127033 86050 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-23-251.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I have the impression that most buggy software is buggy invariant of the system < 1347127128 191510 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it depends < 1347127134 181885 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :inkscape is much worse on mac than on linux < 1347127153 618767 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's also possible that leksah got better in the intervening time < 1347127169 961967 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-23-251.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it is taking a long time to collect information about Haskell packages on my system < 1347127177 743997 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :at the risk of unfounded generalization, i think haskell appeals more to the kinds of programmers who don't typically use IDEs < 1347127196 226371 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and to some degree this blinds people to the advantages a haskell IDE could have, compared to IDEs for other languages < 1347127226 534912 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-23-251.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually don't, but I think a good IDE can definitely be useful (which is why I want one) < 1347127236 58063 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would love to use something like the emacs Agda mode for Haskell < 1347127239 978997 :nortti!nortti@dsl-hkibrasgw3-ff25c000-52.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :kate is pretty good ide < 1347127254 398964 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"what is the type of the expression which could go here" < 1347127264 941983 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1347127271 69171 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"write out the pattern-matching cases for this function based on its type" < 1347127290 251818 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"look up functions that could go here in Hayoo, add the package to my .cabal file, and import the module" < 1347127304 740324 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.jerkcity.com/jerkcity4997.html < 1347127398 51714 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, I'd feel more comfortable with lighttable for Haskell than I would for Clojure, merely because I can know that each function really is not doing side-effects < 1347127407 685303 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Unless someone's abusing unsafePerformIO) < 1347127451 882259 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-23-251.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might just use vim < 1347127636 692702 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then again, I don't know how difficult it might be to do a lighttable thing for Haskell < 1347127910 167923 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1347128407 768144 :impomatic!~digital_w@87.114.66.134 JOIN :#esoteric < 1347128812 568109 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-51.yok.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1347128862 298592 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1347129618 253869 :impomatic!~digital_w@87.114.66.134 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1347129674 68581 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: what do you mean "there are no left turns" in Half-Broken Car in Heavy Traffic? < 1347129768 494745 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a '<' command < 1347129843 130069 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arc_Koen: No I mean turning left relative to the straight direction the car only turn right no left < 1347129853 301905 :ogrom!~del@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1347129861 562099 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It says so in the linked documentation too < 1347129864 525116 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hum I followed the external link and then I understood < 1347129879 640453 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :my confusion comes from the difference between "go left" and "turn left" < 1347129908 306945 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it would be less confusing if directions were west and east instead of left and right < 1347129948 269537 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree. Ask the people who invented that programming language. < 1347131156 864281 :kinoSi!~kinosi@27-96-32-84.ipq.jp QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1347131184 321014 :kinoSi!~kinosi@27-96-32-84.ipq.jp JOIN :#esoteric < 1347131576 999485 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Quit: Are you telling me you can build a time machine but you can't cook a cheese soufflé? You've got your priorities all wrong! < 1347131597 499972 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1347131830 602028 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-23-251.access.telenet.be QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1347131996 911547 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: So turn right three times < 1347132015 460441 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: Yes I suppose so. < 1347132057 125229 :MoALTz_!~no@host-92-2-141-76.as43234.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1347132075 715548 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I found on Wikipedia the chord I have not learned from the book, which is the Neapolitan chord, which is a major chord on the lower second scale degree. < 1347132096 309894 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is sometimes used in place of a IV chord. < 1347132227 11447 :MoALTz!~no@host-92-8-146-155.as43234.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1347132231 50100 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :cache rules everything around me < 1347132246 216382 :soundnfury!~edward@static-87-243-208-102.adsl.hotchilli.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1347132547 527344 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1347132811 866865 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:49:55: :t (0 $ 0 `on`) < 1347132811 885435 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:49:56: The operator `on' [infixl 0] of a section < 1347132815 977713 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :sacrilege! < 1347132836 967246 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone making an infixl 0 operator should be hanged and quartered. < 1347132847 765250 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also infix 0, naturally.) < 1347132912 429549 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this does not apply to _changing_ $ into infixl 0, in which case one would swap l and r.) < 1347132953 444921 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :the conditions under which one would be hanged and quartered are getting complicated < 1347132967 563974 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't say < 1347133045 860157 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also there should have been another precedence above the default 9, which . should have had instead. < 1347133075 942539 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe the precedences should be rationals < 1347133108 839352 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: has been suggested, at which point someone will immediately suggest a system for general partial orders. < 1347133115 88745 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1347133118 976377 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just about to do that too < 1347133147 759122 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :at which someone will point out that makes it awful to combine independent libraries. (at least that's what happened a week or so ago.) < 1347133195 591040 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :my point, otoh, is that . and $ should be considered pseudosyntax and every fixity which conflicts with their natural use is wrong. < 1347133266 90749 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the above `on` being one, and parsec's being the other example i recall. < 1347133389 810289 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically someone should have developed some guidelines before user-defined operators started proliferating, and it's really too late now. < 1347133419 588659 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the applicative operators mostly being 4 rather than the same as the corresponding monadic ones is another pet peeve of mine.) < 1347133504 822988 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just think this is a problem with Haskell; fixity must be integer 0 to 9, and does not allow redefinition of fixity of things defined in another file. < 1347133515 91523 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(They could be fixed by an extension, I suppose.) < 1347133540 639440 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can redefine functions in practice if you really want to, though. < 1347133564 975644 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :on = Data.Function.on; infixr 0 `on` < 1347133577 214241 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes that is what I thought of too < 1347133595 497826 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should fixities be surreal numbers? < 1347133599 739822 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1347133629 559037 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :rationals _should_ be enough for everyone, being able to represent all countable total orders < 1347133692 258369 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: oh the last pointing out about partial orders was that if you define fixities by their relation to other operators, those other operators have to actually be imported... < 1347133740 366854 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means you get unnecessary package dependencies < 1347133742 185038 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is what I thought about using surreal numbers, by defining by relation to other operators < 1347133826 270995 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :surreal numbers presumably allow any total order, regardness of cardinality. < 1347133857 950130 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I think so. < 1347134021 7491 :epicmonkey_!~epicmonke@188.134.41.211 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1347134075 301838 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the proof is sort of a generalization of the proof for rational numbers < 1347134129 274857 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :for rational numbers, you need that between any non-interleaved finite set of rational numbers there is another one < 1347134143 965243 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :for surreal numbers, the same is true without finiteness < 1347134149 907996 :MoALTz_!~no@host-92-2-141-76.as43234.net QUIT :Quit: brb < 1347134157 717475 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*any two < 1347134165 420693 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*another rational number < 1347134168 970782 :MoALTz!~no@host-92-2-141-76.as43234.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1347134219 699998 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the game with left and right options the smaller and larger set represents a surreal number between them. < 1347134315 86846 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1347134346 576415 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you also need a well-ordering (not necessarily the same order) of the totally ordered set you want to embed < 1347134699 724989 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, maybe not _strictly_ need one, you can get the real numbers embedded because they're separated by rationals, and i don't think this uses the real numbers being well-orderable. < 1347134763 933095 :ogrom!~del@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee QUIT :Quit: Left < 1347134783 941610 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps there's a clever argument which only uses the axiom of foundation instead... < 1347134827 365770 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but since there's no obvious guarantee that the total order respects set rank, i won't bet on it. < 1347134839 74433 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1347135364 896976 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1347135785 426760 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION can't figure out what kmc's attitude toward C++ really is. < 1347135789 837736 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect there's more than one attitude. < 1347135977 649046 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell Arc_Koen I think that your ocaml Brainfunct interpreter always treats @ with an undefined function (including 0, but not for >= 50) as using an empty function, is this intended behavior? (It's more useful than crashing anyway, as my haskell one does and as yours does for values >= 50) < 1347135977 819463 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1347136003 368032 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it is < 1347136003 386759 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arc_Koen: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. < 1347136016 868473 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about for values >= 50, ideally? < 1347136026 924790 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :they should be no-ops as well < 1347136044 135927 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ideally I guess the tape and the functions are unbounded < 1347136046 373859 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok. i'll modify my haskell one. < 1347136061 10846 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :my tape is already unbounded since it uses the zipper trick < 1347136068 856461 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, nice < 1347136092 217177 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as well as haskell's infinite lists, but that just makes it slightly easier) < 1347136107 811496 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still trying to figure out why my interpreter ends on Stack_overflow on a tail-recursive loop < 1347136154 250581 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well your for loop comment seems correct to me, as it makes the '@' case not be in a tail position < 1347136175 857313 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, if the @ call is the last command in a function, the interpreter should reflect that < 1347136202 300134 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I modified my program to have the last command out of the for loop < 1347136207 1553 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: i've said it more than a few times < 1347136213 71664 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, you did not include that on the wiki < 1347136226 657591 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it did not work as intended so I did not edit < 1347136233 638279 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think C++ is a bad language, which is bad in almost the opposite way that languages are usually bad < 1347136236 133231 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :akmc: It's basically a bad language, but it's interesting because it's bad in an opposite way to other languages? < 1347136243 340127 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1347136257 594277 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and despite being a bad language, it is sometimes the right tool < 1347136275 594537 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other modification I haven't put on the wiki page is | ',' -> tape.(!ptr) <- (try int_of_char (input_char stdin) with | End_of_file -> -1) < 1347136291 270231 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1347136314 749478 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but using that in the cat program would make it way more complicated < 1347136323 208853 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1347136325 296024 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :as there is no efficient test < 1347136342 873635 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's also interesting just because it has lots of things that other languages don't < 1347136343 901152 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure there is < 1347136379 376823 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the simple, current version would try printing -1 as ascii so it would result in an error anyway) < 1347136391 189367 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :lessee < 1347136408 277659 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in my categorization of programming languages, C++ is practically the only language in its niche < 1347136564 253936 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm... < 1347136573 812940 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++ has an elegance and internal consistency which is lost on most of its users < 1347136586 883760 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they mostly program in a hodge-podge of C and C++ < 1347136604 366848 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the reason they do that is that C++'s internal consistency isn't so much externally consistent with the real world < 1347136637 244048 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it's just very fun to write C++ in small doses and try to do excessively clever things < 1347136646 869386 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is one reason i call it an esolang < 1347136653 843805 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's true about most languages, isn't it? < 1347136654 20141 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and now you know < 1347136660 809445 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how i feel about C++ < 1347136668 219111 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hope you will use this knowledge for good and not evil < 1347136681 492158 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Did I ever ask you again about the stream-cipher-for-disk-encryption thing? < 1347136704 953238 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: well, some languages try to limit the amount of cleverness you can use < 1347136719 106151 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and others are just a mess such that clever things never really seem elegant < 1347136746 231253 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++ and Haskell are very similar in my mind < 1347136756 938076 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ignoring the technical details of each language, and focusing on these kinds of factors < 1347136771 377085 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :now there's a statement which is bound to upset almost everyone ;) < 1347136787 586507 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i promise i'm not trolling, i really do think C++ and Haskell are very similar on this level < 1347136833 860657 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Los Angeles is hot. :-( < 1347136848 940695 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :why did you go to los angeles < 1347136915 189926 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's only temporary. < 1347136966 977115 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, did you get to ride the Expo Line? < 1347136982 136563 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1347136991 427639 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should I? < 1347136999 300894 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hear lexande_ was in a train the other day. < 1347137013 136135 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it's just another light rail line < 1347137017 967894 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it opened since i was last in LA, is all < 1347137093 580834 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know someone who I thought was in Pasadena now but it looks like not yet. < 1347137101 922235 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok heres a statement < 1347137138 205498 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :99% of commercial software does not require a turing complete platform < 1347137148 390416 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know if i am using words entirely wrong here < 1347137163 180501 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: 100% does not. < 1347137167 652760 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because computers are not TC. < 1347137168 335237 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1347137169 404187 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a vague idea what i meant < 1347137190 313202 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: My impressions of Los Angeles so far are "I wouldn't want to live here". < 1347137230 936497 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: its gonna be brutal figuring out what i actually meant. im gonna make a coffee first. and then cause a lot of facepalms < 1347137277 930282 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :grocery store, bbl < 1347137524 176041 :MoALTz!~no@host-92-2-141-76.as43234.net QUIT :Quit: brb < 1347137592 47461 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: http://sprunge.us/SRFA?ocaml < 1347138153 508334 :MoALTz!~no@host-92-2-141-76.as43234.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1347138200 395426 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arc_Koen: i think +>,++++@<@/----.<-@/+@ should work although winghci doesn't have an easy way to test EOF's and i cannot be bothered to use a real command line < 1347138215 450872 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it works for the basic catting, anyway) < 1347138347 953790 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm i can simply add a similar test for newline, i think < 1347138364 433226 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1347138390 337116 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1347138481 710800 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :dammit it also has trouble resetting stdin < 1347138507 638846 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fortunatelly :r fixed that < 1347138512 339667 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*-l < 1347138552 117799 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it raises invalid_argument "index out of bound" even though I set n_functions to 256... I'm head-computing what it does and it looks like it should be working < 1347138632 436035 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1347138640 74846 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait i know my problem < 1347138716 652255 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohohoho wait I think my interpreter is sooooo broken < 1347138753 356438 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :now it worked, my fix for making undefined functions empty had a bug that made <= 0 give function 1 instead :) < 1347138756 479172 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no it's not < 1347138787 624295 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :for one moment I thought my interpreter never returned from function calls < 1347138791 685848 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1347138820 403259 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i managed to get a cat that quits on newline with +>,++++@<@/->----.<@/+@ < 1347138851 154013 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it should also quit on EOF, but it's too awkward to test in winghci) < 1347138907 109061 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :still doesn't work with my interpreter, but I'm pretty sure the error comes from the interpreter < 1347138926 774364 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arc_Koen: it shouldn't ever run functions that large if you give it plain ASCII, anyway < 1347138943 948545 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just adds 4 after all < 1347138953 563314 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know < 1347139171 942094 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I won't try to debug my interpreter tonight, that'll wait for another day < 1347139211 64701 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :uploaded my changes < 1347139301 320704 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arc_Koen: er your - is wrong :) < 1347139314 637756 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, waoh < 1347139325 616923 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that's the most stupidest error i've ever had in a program < 1347139332 175418 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and that means a lot) < 1347139339 756209 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only command none of your previous programs tested, i think :P < 1347139346 801586 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1347139414 316336 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arc_Koen: hey don't worry, i almost managed to get + and - include an automatic > because i put the new value in the wrong zipper list < 1347139423 603971 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1347139432 381312 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :because i had simply copied and pasted the code for > to modify < 1347139480 868985 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :does the new cat work now? < 1347139592 440629 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :one sec - the invalid argument thing simply came from the program trying to read exactly one more command than there were characters in the current function < 1347139606 647356 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arc_Koen: your code looks tail recursive to me < 1347139616 725565 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is now < 1347139632 660194 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was a stupid -1 / +1 error in the loop < 1347139665 126939 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(so the for loop still did everything, and the step after the loop tried to read an imaginary command < 1347139667 425656 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric : -1,0,1,2,3,...,253,254 < 1347139676 667624 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1347139706 627641 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: i don't think any of our interpreters use 8-bit cells < 1347139727 256024 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine uses Int, although it would be a simple substitution to use unbounded Integer < 1347139728 789463 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :urrh, still an error somewhere < 1347139739 212551 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1347139743 37902 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :paste new version? < 1347139766 58157 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1347139770 552983 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1347139776 977748 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhmmm < 1347139791 526027 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/bgNU?ocaml < 1347139960 834855 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION convinces himself that runs the right commands in a function < 1347140003 739026 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :| x -> raise (Unknown_command x) is kind of ridiculous since all brainfuck specifications seem to agree that unknown characters are no-ops that can be used for comments < 1347140028 667114 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1347140045 218972 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i allowed whitespace but nothing else < 1347140086 112910 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just added that line without further thinking when the compiler told me "warning: non-exhaustive pattern matching" < 1347140418 270324 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't see anything obviously wrong with your last paste < 1347140609 278382 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I'll add a lot of print_string to see where the index out of bounds come from < 1347140618 536159 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that'll wait :) < 1347140679 398673 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and I found http://esolangs.org/wiki/BrainCursion should I add a "see also" link or something? < 1347140741 332699 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :its about this point where i remember that #esoteric is actually discussing brainfuck and thus most rational comments do not apply < 1347140771 159675 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arc_Koen: i don't think they're that similar < 1347140784 43435 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :because, brainfuck programmers are a mythical entity < 1347140788 733308 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :beyond both being brainfuck derivatives < 1347140797 1311 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus: a friend showed me a link to someone who has implemented brainfuck in SpaceChem... now *that* is mythical < 1347140826 854148 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :well.. the uh.. consumer of brainfuck interpreters is the mythical part :P < 1347140841 220802 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well my motivation for making brainfunct was "wait is it so that among all the brainfuck derivatives, the obvious functional version is missing?" < 1347140875 232689 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and braincursion seems to be claiming more or less the same thing, even though I haven't really understood what was its point :p < 1347140910 324643 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arc_Koen: not really, it can only jump to the matching ( or ) i think < 1347140911 46045 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess what i am saying is not quite true considering that people make interpreters in brainfuck < 1347140919 346304 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :its a great interpreter writing language < 1347140947 730814 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait does it < 1347141029 506996 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops no im wrong < 1347141037 238076 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i got x and y axis confused on esointerpreters < 1347141080 391495 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm it doesn't even do matching, if the interpreter is to be believed < 1347141086 924395 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmmmmm does braincursion support nested loops correctly? < 1347141110 83212 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems not < 1347141183 904467 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically i think all the brainfuck programs that are going to be written have been written < 1347141208 292240 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, the hypothetical end user of a brainfuck interpreter is just a useful uhhh < 1347141212 952486 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :however this directly contradicts the computational class section of the article < 1347141219 49688 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1347141231 339517 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :useful fellow < 1347141269 508933 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that sections links to "reduction", in which it is said "be careful with the arbitrary thing at the arbitrary moment!!!" which is not respected by the loop emulation in braincursion < 1347141294 44523 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell spirity Did you mean for loops in BrainCursion to nest properly? The interpreter doesn't. < 1347141294 213273 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1347141329 935963 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: according to the description of the language it doesn't either < 1347141339 706191 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(at least not in such an easy way) < 1347141360 773357 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell spirity The description seems to imply they shouldn't, while the computational class section makes no sense if they don't. < 1347141360 942257 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1347141381 601641 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :are spirity and Madk one? < 1347141460 393760 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, spirity and Seven Inch Bread is < 1347141494 451736 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the computational class comment is older than the interpreter, at least < 1347141537 281211 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact it's by the original article author. which is an IP, so may or may not be the same as the language author, but most likely is. < 1347141565 613350 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw i hesitate to call the loops described "recursive". < 1347141592 818593 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup that's what I did not really understand < 1347141621 123945 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so no matter how you slice it, it's not very similar to Brainfunct. < 1347141641 30473 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, "recursive" wouldn't mean much if it's still and explicit loop < 1347141699 767571 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember when I had programming exercises to do at the university and it was explicitly said "this algorithm must be written in an imperative way" I often "cheated" by emulating recursion using a stack < 1347141908 590043 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arc_Koen: btw as a conoisseur of TC proofs, i find the phrase "arbitrary effect at an arbitrary point" and even the entire Reduction section _far_ too imprecise (and don't actually describe the technical meaning of reduction.) < 1347141927 19460 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I completely agree with that < 1347141974 505681 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*connoisseur dammit :P < 1347141999 384784 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it took me a while to understand what they meant with "arbitrary effect at an arbitrary point", and what's said about reduction basically is "reduction is a good way to prove a language TC except sometimes it's not a proof at all" < 1347142029 216949 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :real reduction is definitely a proof, but you have to apply to an entire program (sometimes including the I/O) < 1347142037 597014 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the french word actually is "connaisseur" with an a :p) < 1347142073 104654 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A connoisseur (French traditional (pre-1835) spelling of connaisseur" < 1347142083 649447 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's not wrong to use it in english, by tradition < 1347142108 920646 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know but it does sound weird when the reader is french :p < 1347142210 302253 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, I didn't know where the o came from. I thought it was just an original misspelling.) < 1347142334 494739 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or something similar to "rendezvous" being written as a single word) < 1347142354 185739 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well sometimes you can reduce each instruction separately, when the language's have essentially identical semantics for how sequences of instructions are combined. < 1347142359 966099 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*languages < 1347143006 44954 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1347143166 574477 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1347144554 638704 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT : < 1347144712 692059 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1347144784 376624 :augur!~augur@206.196.184.36 JOIN :#esoteric < 1347144955 849529 :augur!~augur@206.196.184.36 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1347145493 24006 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: but then it's basically the same thing as writing a compiler from the TC language to the new language isn't it? < 1347145514 554494 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1347145557 775148 :kinoSi!~kinosi@27-96-32-84.ipq.jp QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1347145585 276063 :kinoSi!~kinosi@27-96-32-84.ipq.jp JOIN :#esoteric < 1347146533 435196 :MoALTz!~no@host-92-2-141-76.as43234.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1347146918 35904 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1347147490 765073 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is any modern C compiler going to object to non-ASCII UTF-8-encoded characters in a multiline comment? < 1347147517 668134 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i figure, even if it decodes them as 8-bit characters, it will be fine because they will not match "*/" as encoded in the ISO 646 invariant set < 1347147526 72343 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since it won't contain the ASCII */ then probably it will work OK. < 1347147554 467229 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(If you need to actually use the */ in the comment then use the overlong encodings) < 1347147561 68947 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :overlong? < 1347147623 919769 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Overlong encodings are not really valid UTF-8 but use it anyways if you need to. < 1347147710 389314 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're alternate encodings for the charaters U+00 to U+7F < 1347147758 132777 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, i see < 1347147774 441297 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you prepend some bytes which encode zeros < 1347147812 961356 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: It should "just work" regardless. < 1347147813 132264 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://blogs.msdn.com/b/michael_howard/archive/2008/08/22/overlong-utf-8-escapes-bite.aspx < 1347147885 45662 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: The beauty of UTF-8 is that you'll never get valid ASCII out of it except when it's the chunk mapping to ASCII... So you'd have to really work to break on UTF-8 there. < 1347147887 303380 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you are using UTF-8, another thing you could do if you want */ in a C comment is to put a zero-width space between. < 1347147898 14081 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1347147905 521355 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :do zero-width spaces work in fixed-with fonts? < 1347147911 830775 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :are they like a no-op combining character? < 1347147915 411577 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should do < 1347147926 497548 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :they work in irssi anyway < 1347147926 838556 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Works fine here. < 1347147931 426314 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1347147949 100907 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :They are supposed to have zero width; in PuTTY on my computer it displays a replacement box even though it does not advance the cursor. < 1347147952 694969 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo (example) < 1347147963 25332 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​(example) < 1347148003 178794 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :So in that example, it appears on my computer the zero-width space replacement box overlapping the colon. < 1347148008 697299 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :✧_✧ < 1347148026 747349 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :What colon < 1347148038 919589 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And for some reason it is gray rather than blue; this may be a bug in PuTTY) < 1347148064 759838 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe your font still needs to have the empty character set for the zero-width space to work correctly < 1347148068 175186 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: The colon before the IRC message. (The syntax of IRC require a colon to indicate long parameter that may contain spaces) < 1347148086 740288 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: What, you don't use an IRC client? < 1347148102 705158 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: I do use an IRC client. But probably not the same one you used. < 1347148127 199217 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't your IRC client more a syntax-highlighting IRC protocol displayer? < 1347148157 294313 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mostly use irssi, because the irc client I wrote myself isn't that good =P < 1347148180 347908 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think someone should package GNU/Linux, Mosh, screen, and irssi as an EC2 AMI < 1347148189 349614 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :to make it super easy to set up persistent IRC in The Cloud < 1347148202 496198 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is also https://irccloud.com/ but i heard it is slow < 1347148203 397010 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd be tempted to, except I just got my Internet stable. < 1347148211 56548 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yes mostly those are what it does; although it has other features too. < 1347148299 860123 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mosh? < 1347148307 645560 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, tmux > screen < 1347148309 47882 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: mosh.mit.edu < 1347148313 937624 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :screen, tmux, whatever < 1347148332 725050 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, this < 1347148533 43554 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1347148785 836245 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ISO C allows "int main() { ... }", right? < 1347148797 411691 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(with no parameters)