00:01:36 http://habrahabr.ru/post/151203/ 00:01:40 Crazy people. 00:03:30 shachaf: this is a gif which is also a wav? 00:03:58 Yes. 00:04:20 They used my GIF player thing for it. It almost makes me want to make it not so dreadfully inefficient. 00:05:07 гиф 00:05:11 you wrote jsgif? 00:05:23 Yes. 00:05:50 cool 00:05:53 what for? 00:06:35 I was annoyed at not being able to step frame-by-frame through animations. 00:07:04 I think it was some of the sorting algorithm animations on Wikipedia. 00:07:13 Then I decided to do something entirely client-side. 00:12:29 huh, I downloaded 152 GB last night 00:12:34 i hope my ISP is ok with that 00:13:40 oh yeah i know how that is.. 00:14:08 That's a lot of GBs. 00:14:23 some nights you get so web-drunk that 152gb just gets downloaded before you know it 00:14:58 also i have about 108 GB of DVDs i want to rip, and no space for them 00:17:07 i guess that 152gb is feasible 00:17:35 it was all port hahaha 00:17:37 uh 00:18:41 it took about 16.5 hours 00:19:17 i suppose that downloading could be fun if you had no reason to stop 00:20:09 who am i kidding 00:20:52 i don't know how to rip DVDs :/ 00:21:23 i just want to decrypt the VOBs and leave them intact otherwise; it looks like vobcopy can do this 00:21:34 * kmc cyber-criminal 00:22:01 Fair abuse 00:22:27 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 00:23:20 although the laws may be clear on these matters, i think maybe new words are needed to help discriminate the various types of property trading now possible in digital age 00:25:47 kmc: apt-get install dvdbackup 00:25:51 $ dvdbackup -M 00:25:58 (If you have libdvdcss.) 00:26:02 * shachaf >>= undefined 00:26:30 That reminds me, I need to get vlc from debian-multimedia 00:26:33 And ffmpeg 00:27:53 shachaf: cool 00:28:47 questions like: did you pay? were you expected to pay? is there a physical embodiment? is it computer data? do they know you took it? did they expect you not to take it? does the person who traded it away still have it? 00:29:40 words like buy and download simply don't represent all these ideas very unambiguously 00:34:02 * kmc consumes a delicious butter-sugar-chocolate food disc 00:35:35 would you like a defibrillator with that? 00:35:38 You gluttonous consumer 00:39:04 gluteus maximus 00:42:04 -!- copumpkin has joined. 00:48:27 yeah i ate one cookie, i'm gonna die of a heart attack for sure 00:50:30 if you don't die of a heart atteck, it wasn't delicious enough! 00:52:09 *a 00:54:40 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 00:55:13 -!- copumpkin has joined. 01:02:18 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 01:05:40 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Excess Flood). 01:07:28 do common UNIX-like systems all support invoking the "default" C compiler as cc? 01:11:04 The default compiler may be cc, but your default compiler is always gcc. 01:11:43 even on recent OS X? what about solaris? 01:11:53 anyway i'm asking "can i write cc in a shell script and have it dtrt" 01:11:56 Well, I have no idea 01:12:15 Why not use CC anyway 01:12:40 $CC isn't typically set in the shell 01:12:44 shell, not makefile 01:12:52 perhaps bonghits will fix my build script 01:13:28 Yeah, so set it at the top 01:14:00 that doesn't get me anything 01:14:58 It's easier to fix then 01:16:01 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 01:18:08 ah yes but i'm only invoking cc once in this script 01:18:24 http://www.gsp.com/cgi-bin/man.cgi?section=1&topic=c89 says there should be one named c89 01:18:42 in posix 01:19:35 I forgot about posix 01:19:43 fun 01:19:55 cygwin does not provide c89. 01:20:09 If you give a shit 01:20:10 even funner 01:20:26 oerjan: That tool does not exist in current POSIX, only older versions of POSIX. 01:20:28 the cc link in the above redirects to gcc fwiw 01:20:34 POSIX 2008 specifies c99 however. 01:20:38 pikhq: sheesh. so what ... ok 01:20:41 Jafet: does it provide cc? 01:20:53 Yes 01:20:56 do the POSIX c89 / c99 also have standard command-line syntax? 01:21:09 See above 01:21:11 kmc: Yes. 01:21:17 kmc: They function as you expect. 01:21:26 It does not provide cc I don't think. 01:21:56 However, real-world UNIX-like systems generally have cc. 01:22:08 ${CC:=cc} would be the right thing. 01:22:15 Or ${CC:=c99} if you mean C99. 01:22:21 cc is usually assumed to be gcc, or be a compiler that works like gcc 01:22:25 Like clang 01:22:37 (${CC:=cc} evaluates to CC, or cc if CC is unset, and if CC is unset, sets CC to cc.) 01:23:33 yeah 01:23:47 i'll use ${CC:-cc} 01:23:54 Seems reasonable. 01:24:06 Worst-case scenario someone has to tell it the compiler. 01:25:43 Or you can do what configure scripts do 01:25:52 "Checking for usable C compiler..." 01:26:15 I don't even know why configure scripts do that 01:32:30 to fail earlier, maybe 01:39:24 Jafet: It's dain bramage. 01:46:17 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:48:20 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:55:26 ok heres a strange question 01:55:50 i am monolingual. 01:56:20 many people are bilingual. 01:56:59 occasioanlly some people know quite a lot of languages and known as polyglots 01:57:10 riiiiiight 01:57:51 according to WP, Nikola Tesla could speak Serbian, Czech, English, French, German, Hungarian, Italian, and Latin. 01:58:14 Dr José Rizal (1861–1896), could speak 22 languages. 01:58:55 Hmm, a whole 4 language families on Tesla. 01:59:26 now the thought i have is, are there computer-programmer equivalents to this Dr Jose Rizal 01:59:44 What, you mean programmers that know 22 languages? 01:59:47 Uh, trivially. 02:00:02 whereby, it is not simply that they have read 22 sams programming books 02:00:17 ... Again, trivially. 02:00:19 but they have some advanced capacity 02:00:25 ya.. ur right 02:00:28 trivially 02:00:34 I think Gregor's nearing that point in programming languages *implemented*. 02:00:44 Gregor: Oy, how many programming languages have you done? 02:00:58 Count esolangs, those were interesting and nontrivial. 02:01:02 Programming languages are mostly dialects of each other 02:02:33 apparently daniel tammet learned icelandic in a week 02:02:53 From what I understand, he learned basic icelandic in a week. 02:03:02 Sam's Learn Icelandic in 7 Days 02:03:14 which is probably not that difficult eh :P media exaggerations? 02:03:21 Which TBH is about the rate anyone could learn basic bits in nearly any language. 02:03:22 anything for a story 02:03:39 Except maybe ones with really hard (for them) phonemes... 02:05:54 i guess what i am pondering is whether programming is something you can be good at to such a degree that they make a film like rainman about you 02:06:08 being good at programing != knowing a lot of programming languages 02:06:22 amazing how common this confusion is 02:06:24 kmc: well thats fair enough. i won't dispite that 02:06:29 ^dispute 02:06:32 in truth, which programming language you use just doesn't matter much 02:06:32 And Rainman was not exactly a documentary. :) 02:06:46 hnn 02:07:11 But if you want someone like that, uh... 02:07:14 Fabrice Bellard. 02:07:19 Need I say more. 02:09:43 when programmers get famous in popular (non-programmer) culture, it's not typically for being extraordinarily good at programming 02:10:13 usually they made something boring and derivative which became extremely popular 02:10:14 so i think they don't have a name for what fabrice has done 02:10:23 either through luck or through clever but non-programming-related decisions 02:10:29 mark zuckerberg, linus torvalds, bill gates 02:10:39 Categories: 02:10:40 1972 births 02:10:40 Living people 02:10:40 École Polytechnique alumni 02:10:40 French computer programmers 02:10:40 People from Grenoble 02:10:42 French computer scientists 02:10:44 oops... newlines 02:10:50 these people might be excellent programmers (i've heard gates in particular is), but that's not actually why they're famous 02:12:21 it seems one article title labeled him "super-productive programmer" but i sure hope that title doesn't become common 02:13:00 @wn prolific 02:13:00 *** "prolific" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)" 02:13:00 prolific 02:13:00 adj 1: intellectually productive; "a prolific writer"; "a fecund 02:13:01 imagination" [syn: {fecund}, {fertile}, {prolific}] 02:13:01 2: bearing in abundance especially offspring; "flying foxes are 02:13:02 extremely prolific"; "a prolific pear tree" [syn: {prolific}, 02:13:04 {fertile}] 02:15:42 kmc: I name Bellard as it in particular just because any *one* project of his would be a moderately impressive feat. 02:16:00 Or insanely impressive... 02:16:04 qemu, for instance. 02:16:20 Which is strictly speaking an overgrown side project of tcc. 02:16:26 * shachaf 02:16:30 kmc: Did it work? 02:16:45 Which was an overgrown side project of an ioccc entry 02:17:12 (qemu grew out of Bellard's attempts to write a somewhat more generic backend scheme for tcc... He realised that if he just stuck a disassembler on the front of it he'd have an emulator, and tada.) 02:19:57 pikhq: yeah 02:20:09 shachaf: did what work? 02:20:23 The DVD thing. 02:20:31 i don't have the DVDs yet 02:20:34 they are arriving tomorrow 02:20:57 The Wire: The Complete Series on 23 DVDs 02:21:46 23dvds... thats quite a signifigant number of dvds 02:22:29 Or 4 Blurays. 02:22:30 that is possibly the most profound thing i have ever heard in my life 02:22:57 they don't have it on blu-ray 02:23:08 but i can get _Man on Wire_ on blu-ray which is also good 02:25:39 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:25:58 -!- Jafet has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 02:27:39 i don't know if these are DVD-5 but it is plausible 02:27:43 it's about 61 hours of video 02:29:39 DVDV 02:30:08 kmc: Is this related to the hundreds of GBs you downloaded recently? 02:31:35 nope 02:31:56 "is that like DVDA" 02:34:11 * kmc is slowly installing perl and git on a FreeBSD EC2 micro instance 02:34:18 this is gentoo before gentoo was a thing 02:34:41 shachaf: i spent yesterday pimping my bash prompt, what else should i add? 02:35:35 kmc: Last command exit status indicator? 02:36:34 i have that, 02:36:45 the usual $ turns into a red '!' if the last command failed 02:36:52 -!- Jafet has joined. 02:37:14 it also displays the hostname and the working directory (with custom abbreviations) 02:37:23 and the latter is used as the tmux / screen window name 02:38:48 Sounds like a productive day. 02:39:00 * shachaf 's prompt is '\u@\h:\w\$ ' 02:39:02 Or so. 02:40:38 maybe i should switch to zsh, it has better hooks for fancy stuff 02:41:03 Maybe I should too. 02:41:09 I've tried a couple times but it's such a hassle. 02:41:34 how so 02:42:05 I don't remember. 02:42:10 Things don't work right. 02:42:19 * shachaf = old and set in ways. :-( 02:42:40 yeah, before yesterday i was using a prompt i had stole from i think Red Hat 6.x 02:42:50 probably used that prompt for 10 years 02:42:59 PROMPT="%(?..%B%F{red}[%?]%f%b) %B%F{blue}$USER@%2m%f%b:%B%2c%b %F{magenta}%*%f%# " 02:43:02 wait no i used some wacky gentoo prompt for a while 02:43:32 Oh, those had fancy colours. 02:47:13 -!- augur has joined. 02:47:38 Obligatory link to http://eseth.org/2009/nethack-term.html 03:07:32 -!- Jafet has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:08:20 -!- Jafet has joined. 03:16:18 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 03:16:51 -!- copumpkin has joined. 03:18:45 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 03:19:42 -!- Jafet has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 03:28:59 -!- Jafet has joined. 03:53:16 http://penny-arcade.com/comic/2012/08/06 this somehow feels cogent 04:05:41 much much less funny when i realize that zyngis is a reference to zynga, and that zynga's logo is a dog 04:06:51 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 04:06:55 -!- DH____ has joined. 04:17:15 -!- DH____ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:18:06 -!- MoALTz has joined. 04:28:43 -!- zzo38 has joined. 04:41:44 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 04:57:52 -!- Jafet has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 05:22:24 gah stupid freebsd, this is taking forever and it's not even funrolling my loops 05:23:27 Content-type: application/octet-stream 05:23:30 Content-type: dunno/lol 05:34:33 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 05:37:51 huh wow http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/09/10/aig-stock-sale-vindicates-treasury-bailout.html 06:35:23 I do not like this word "metric ton"; it should not be called a "ton", a "tonne", or a "metric ton"; it should be called a "megagram", isn't it? 06:36:23 kilokilogram 06:37:43 I prefer megagram. 06:38:02 Same number of syllables, but much more systematic. 06:38:50 Also, whoever put US traditional units in my most recent chem assignment should be shot. 06:38:56 My megagramma has a megagramo' stuff in her system attic. 06:39:22 Science = fuck you, I want sane units. 06:39:23 I thought "metric ton" was a figure of speech 06:39:31 Sgeo: No, it's a megagram. 06:40:02 It's a non-SI unit accepted for use with SI. 06:40:04 Because fuck you. 06:40:44 A metric tone us one defined using decibels instead of cents. 06:42:03 How is that? I don't think that works. 06:42:22 1 dB ~= 400 cents? 06:42:54 O, is that how it works? 06:48:19 Where does that come from? 06:50:17 Cents are pretty metric already, actually. 06:50:24 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cent_(music) 06:51:00 fizzie: It's very simple, really. 06:51:11 An octave is called an octave because it's divided into 12 parts. 06:51:27 Yes, the link was enough. 06:51:34 Those parts are called semitones. 06:51:42 Seven semitones make a fifth, and five semitones make a fourth. 06:51:57 (A perfect fifth and a perfect fourth, that is.) 06:52:02 That certainly makes sense. 06:52:06 s/fifth/equal-tempered perfect fifth/ 06:52:25 zzo38: OK, fine. 06:52:45 A perfect fifth is a factor of 3/2, but they approximate it by 2^(7/12) 06:53:07 Well, a just perfect fifth is 3/2. An equal-tempered perfect fifth is 2^(7/12). 06:53:29 Does anyone ever use decibels for ratios of frequencies? 06:53:52 I don't know. 06:53:54 Is it possible to use decibels for ratios of frequencies? 06:54:14 I doubt anyone ever uses cents for anything but ratios of frequencies. 06:54:27 Despite the fact that 2 is a much more sensible base for your logarithm than 10! 06:54:40 It's much more natural, when you're dealing with integers. 06:55:50 Apparently people use "dB-Hz" for measuring bandwidth; it's relative to 1 Hz. 06:56:45 30 dB-Hz is a kilohertz. 06:57:12 Though there's no citation for this, so maybe someone just invented it for Wikipedia. 07:00:15 Meh, screw the decibel. Base 10 log is silly. 07:00:29 ln and lb por favor 07:01:00 Don't forget to divide by 12. 07:01:45 O, now I can see how dB-Hz can be used like that. But I have never heard of it before. 07:02:05 x = "(" + x + ")/12" 07:04:25 more fun is multiplication by 10 07:04:48 x = x + "0" 07:05:01 but i know it won't always work 07:06:51 x = "5.0" ... 07:20:40 If you know they are integers, it could be used, such as a shell script dd count=`wc -l`0 ... 07:22:27 -!- zzo38 has quit (Quit: zzo38). 07:45:08 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 07:51:49 -!- nooga has joined. 08:13:36 ... 08:14:50 i disagree with reason 2 in Joel's software link, "They create to many exit points in a function", you still have just as many exit points if not more with C only code not using exceptions 08:22:15 well, Joel exists purely for the purpose of being disagreed with 08:22:44 soundnfury: You should have a nick with numbers in it. 08:22:59 why? Just because everyone else does? 08:23:15 * soundnfury can't change his nick 08:23:47 have to keep it the same as my NAO username 08:24:00 so's I get alerted when Rodney reports my deaths 08:34:36 -!- mtve has joined. 08:36:07 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 09:33:27 wow... apparently someone at the /New Yorker/ knows about diareses ("reënter") 09:53:27 -!- itidus21 has changed nick to itidus. 09:53:45 -!- itidus has changed nick to tidus. 09:53:53 -!- tidus has changed nick to itidus21. 09:54:22 hm... tidus was registered at least 09:54:58 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 10:13:55 -!- Arc_Koen has joined. 10:23:25 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 10:23:42 -!- Lumpio- has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:23:49 -!- Lumpio- has joined. 10:30:54 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 10:44:45 __ ___ 11:13:56 i was watching a show this morning 11:14:51 "i live in america" "i thought you lived in new york" "new york is in america" 11:29:46 itidus21: I'm pretty sure you're wrong, I have a map of the United Kingdom here and there's a city named York... Sur New York must be in the uk too 11:32:03 it was some old show with zsa zsa gabor 11:56:31 -!- kinoSi has quit (Quit: kill -INT 1). 12:17:22 New York is the name for the new construction in York made in the late 1700s. 12:20:10 -!- MoALTz has joined. 12:32:08 -!- kinoSi has joined. 12:52:08 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 13:21:32 -!- oerjan has joined. 13:21:39 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 13:44:17 -!- copumpkin has joined. 13:58:11 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 14:04:43 -!- mig22 has quit (Quit: mig22). 14:09:53 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:14:14 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Read error: Connection timed out). 14:52:45 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 14:57:09 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:01:58 Oh my god viddler have started charging for any account using over 2GB of bandwidth per month. 15:02:08 Way to commit financial suicide, guys. 15:05:31 huh? 15:07:44 If more than 2GB of bandwidth is spent watching your videos, they email you saying you have to pay up or they'll delete the account. 15:08:46 and you think everyone will just leave viddler? 15:08:47 But 2GB is nothing 15:10:33 kmc, the charge is $50/month for 200GB of bandwidth. 15:11:46 And that was being asked of a fairly small Let's Play outfit. 15:13:05 So whilst holding customers who don't have backups to ransom might work, something tells me it's not going to work for long. 15:19:18 Phantom_Hoover: so first people pay 50$ for 200GB, and then suddenly they're told their 50$ cover only for the first 2GB, and the remaining 198GB have to be paid again? 15:19:44 No, 2GB is just the threshold for a free account. 15:37:59 And the Youtube threshold is infinity. 15:39:01 -!- atriq has joined. 15:40:19 -!- augur has joined. 15:40:58 @messages? 15:40:58 atriq: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. 15:41:01 Wow 15:41:04 I'm popular 15:41:06 @messages 15:41:06 Arc_Koen said 16h 48m 32s ago: "Brook... with the gimmick that the program can produce and immediately execute a potentially infinite length program written in Brook." I'm not sure what you mean - 15:41:07 when I look at the instruction set I feel like it's basically Fueue, except the program and the data queue are separated. what am I missing? 15:41:07 Arc_Koen said 16h 32m 1s ago: oh and I noticed the truth-machine fueue program from the truth-machine wiki page doesn't work. it first tries to print "-48", then (assuming the interpreter hasn't 15:41:07 crashed already) turns into a cat (because the two main blocks are never unblocked, the ($ turns into [$], and the + never has two arguments 15:41:27 turns out the two messages were from the same user, sorry :( 15:41:41 Arc_Koen, Brook is a lot more like brainfuck with a different kind of loop 15:42:12 And also, I never tested the truth-machine in Fueue 15:42:19 Other than just writing it out 15:42:21 yes but did you mean that brook could modify its own code? 15:42:25 No 15:42:36 It sort of emits a new program which is run first 15:42:48 And has access to a different tape 15:42:57 well I tested it with both my interpreters, the C one turned into a cat while the ocaml one raised Failure "char_of_int" 15:43:27 so I looke dmore closely and noticed yoru program tried to print -48, and the blocks were never unblocked 15:43:40 Ah, that's a problem 15:43:48 I was probably asleep when I wrote it, heh 15:43:57 Unlike what my user page says, I'm not a super human. 15:44:04 I just provide an alternative male perspective. 15:44:26 I think a truth-machine is quite hard to implement in fueue, because of the "one complete no-op rotation" you have to have in order to get input, and then this input alone is supposed to de-no-op the queue 15:44:54 Hmm, yeah 15:45:53 -!- sivoais has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:46:09 and input are numeric values, which can only interfere with +, -, *, /, %, $, but none of those commands would deblock anything 15:46:19 -!- sivoais has joined. 15:46:54 also I was wondering: where does the "F" in fueue come from ? 15:47:08 It stands for "functional" 15:48:16 okay, makes sense 15:48:50 well i'll try to look into Brook again but as someone pointed out on the talk page it's quite hard to understand :p 15:49:23 It was designed to be tricky 15:49:28 And hard to prove Turing-complete 15:56:05 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 15.0.1/20120905151427]). 16:14:44 -!- quintopia has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 16:23:43 -!- zzo38 has joined. 16:25:07 -!- quintopia has joined. 16:32:28 -!- FreeFull has joined. 16:35:39 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 16:51:24 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:02:22 There was a keynote computer music guy from CMU today. 17:03:27 Some Roger B. Dannenberg guy, been doing Audacity apparently. 17:38:33 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 17:40:28 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:41:30 -!- augur has joined. 17:42:25 -!- impomatic has joined. 17:52:34 -!- atriq has left ("Leaving"). 17:52:58 -!- atriq has joined. 17:53:35 -!- MoALTz has joined. 18:01:29 Heard this today: "I googled it on Amazon" 18:06:41 Does anyone here edit code on Android? I've installed a few code editors, just wondering which one you prefer to work with? 18:06:54 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:07:10 edit code on android? sounds incredibly painful 18:09:34 With a bluetooth keyboard? 18:10:20 oh, with a real keyboard 18:10:44 plenty of android devices have laptop-style keyboards 18:10:47 e.g. eee pad transformer 18:10:55 android runs on lots of different kinds of hardware 18:11:17 in lithuania i rode a bus which had an android-based seat back entertainment system 18:11:25 which was loaded with very obviously pirated music and movies 18:16:09 Has anyone tried one of those Laser projection keyboards? 18:18:03 i have one; the bluetooth interface is proprietary 18:18:49 some third party reverse engineered the protocol for the one i have, and they made a demo app but want you to pay money for actually using it 18:18:54 and the performance in the demo app is shit 18:21:32 in other words, happy reverse engineering to build your own? 18:22:06 "it takes a while for changes to ripple through the timelines" 18:22:19 eww, star trek is not supposed to be so timey wimey bally 18:23:27 other models might have better interfgaces 18:23:51 doctor who is at least overtly timey wimey 18:25:51 err, and apparently they're going to be away from the enterprise while they're off time travelling, long enough to need an excuse ... can't they just return from the time they left? 18:25:56 *to the time 18:29:01 -!- oerjan has joined. 18:30:24 oerjan: here, have some best practices: http://code.jonwagner.com/2012/09/11/best-practices-when-to-not-use-asynchronous-programming/ 18:33:09 kmc: is that the celluon keyboard? 18:33:29 the one i have? i don't think so, not sure 18:33:39 i got it for free from someone who also couldn't get it to do anything useful ;P 18:33:45 and it's sitting at the bottom of a box somewhere 18:33:55 looks cool tho 18:34:43 Apparently one of them can be set as a virtual piano keyboard. 18:34:51 Unlike what my user page says, I'm not a super human. <-- shocking 18:35:45 I think a truth-machine is quite hard to implement in fueue, because of the "one complete no-op rotation" you have to have in order to get input, and then this input alone is supposed to de-no-op the queue 18:36:12 yeah i found out that would be awkward. although not so awkward that distinguishing _one_ character is impossible. hm... 18:37:08 -!- copumpkin has changed nick to john_smith. 18:37:29 -!- john_smith has changed nick to copumpkin. 18:37:30 basically only $ is capable of doing nothing, then triggering on a single number appearing 18:38:09 after one round 18:43:28 olsner: OKAY THANKS 18:43:56 -!- variable has changed nick to constant. 18:46:00 http://www.toothycat.net/~hologram/Turing/HowItWorks.html YES! 18:46:04 Magic The Gathering is TC. 18:46:28 sweet 18:46:31 So are bathroom tiles, fwiw 18:46:53 (Well, Wang Tiles are) 18:47:11 hehe wang 18:47:22 kmc: How much of the keyboard thing is done in software? 18:47:27 dunno 18:47:42 i think after that wolfram TM etc. brouhaha i think i'd reserve the word "universal" instead of TC for those bathroom tiles 18:48:05 things get fishy when there's infinite setup or finish 18:48:45 well i guess there's a TC decision problem in there 18:48:54 It's not strictly speaking halting 18:49:50 But there's a way of translating turing machines to sets of tiles that tile the plane and only repeat if the turing machine halts or something 18:50:58 hm they repeat? i thought they couldn't tile the plane at all then, but i never learned that bit of the proof 18:51:05 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 18:51:12 if oklopol were here he could tell us 18:52:15 I'm not advanced enough in the arcane arts of mathematics to understand it, most likely 18:52:23 I officially learnt about groups today 18:55:09 yay! 18:55:34 * oerjan turns atriq upside down, then twists him leftwards, then mirrors him 18:56:00 * oerjan then dies as atriq explodes as antimatter 18:56:19 * atriq becomes PURE ENERGY 18:56:32 This is not as awesome as it sounds at all 18:56:55 no rest anymore 18:57:34 -!- shachaf has quit (*.net *.split). 18:57:34 -!- fungot has quit (*.net *.split). 18:58:44 -!- shachaf has joined. 19:03:04 I wonder if Pokemon cards are turing complete 19:06:42 I thought Magic: the Gathering is TC; now you told me for sure. 19:06:58 About Pokemon card, though, there is a limit to the number of cards so it might not be. 19:11:42 -!- mjrosenb has quit (Quit: leaving). 19:13:15 Yu-Gi-Oh? 19:17:14 I don't know that game well enough. 19:19:33 -!- myndzi has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 19:20:20 -!- myndzi has joined. 19:27:18 I don't think Sopio is 19:28:30 Maybe you can use Junkyard Dave and get two queues like that, but then you'd need an infinite hand, which you can't have 19:28:52 -!- myndzi has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:33:33 so the MtG turing machine uses life counters (or whatever those numbers mean) to store cards' indexes in the queues, and pops the top card by hurting all cards by one and seeing what died 19:34:14 yes you'd need infinite credit. it would make it turing complete but on the other side it'd have some ruinous affect on inflation 19:35:57 atriq: Arc_Koen: plz test )$!![[)[~~~~()+1])])][[)[~H~+32])])][)~[0]] 19:37:09 well one of you at least 19:38:59 -!- ais523 has joined. 19:40:07 * oerjan downloads the c interpreter 19:40:14 Prints P for 0, Q for 1 19:40:25 hm 19:40:36 > ord <$> "01PQ" 19:40:37 [48,49,80,81] 19:40:46 yep that's correct 19:41:01 and then halts without more input, right? 19:41:07 Yes 19:41:33 Yeah, converts capital letters to lower case 19:41:37 One letter at a time 19:41:45 good, then to replace the ~H~+32 part 19:46:36 hi 19:47:10 trying to get fueue input working 19:47:21 and fix the truth machine 19:47:24 olsner: Basically. 19:47:48 olsner: And lazily expands the queues. 19:48:20 impressive 19:48:50 yeah, I liked that, the most-alive card is one that expands the tape by spawning the appropriate other card when it dies 19:50:01 oerjan: wait, the C interpreter is not the right version 19:50:32 oh. well it worked for this program. 19:51:30 hmm I'm not sure actually 19:51:50 I seem to remember that important changes had been made since that version but I can't remember which 19:52:03 apparently it's already imperative instead of recursive 19:52:13 if you meet any problems please elt me know 19:52:28 ok 19:54:55 oh right, I think the main differences are the use of union types, and a memory leak fix 19:55:05 which is particularly important for infinite loop 20:03:37 oerjan: is the !! used to delay input? 20:04:16 it's used to fix the spot where the input will appear 20:04:42 by being the last thing to execute 20:05:14 why not simply rotate the initial program to have the spot already at an extremity? 20:05:18 i guess ... right 20:08:46 woah 20:09:03 when using --print it turns out the program goes a *very* long way before halting 20:10:07 it basically has do duplicate a number of blocks equal to the character read, then run them once, then run the leftovers once 20:11:35 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 20:12:29 i don't see any other way than )$[...] of getting an input number into a form that can be handled 20:13:14 well maybe something with <$[...] could work but that's going to be even worse 20:14:50 hmmm does fueue accept empty blocks? 20:14:53 and a ) is needed at some point anyway 20:15:22 atriq: are empty blocks legal? 20:15:28 Yes 20:15:40 I think 20:15:52 I've never actually thought about this 20:15:56 I think they are 20:16:04 i think it's just that since you don't need any other argument to create an empty block, there's no use having a function _other_ than [] for it 20:16:33 -!- ais523 has joined. 20:16:52 just like underload doesn't have anything but () for it either 20:19:10 right 20:20:01 ahah 20:20:08 well I'll have to revise my interpreter then 20:33:43 argh how does one get vim to ignore special characters in the substitution _string_? 20:33:57 ok, the c interpreter had problems with deblocking empty blocks, but that's fixed 20:34:33 oerjan: don't you have something to escape problematic characters? 20:34:50 Goodnight 20:34:52 -!- atriq has quit (Quit: Leaving). 20:34:53 but i don't know _which_ characters are the problematic ones :( 20:35:15 [[)[~~~~()+1])])][[)[~H~+32])])][)~[0]])$ 20:35:18 argh 20:35:33 i cannot cut and paste from the : line :( 20:37:33 hm i think it's the ~ 20:38:27 whew :sno fixed it 20:40:30 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 20:43:20 (it still writes P for 0) 20:43:34 as intended 20:47:54 -!- hagb4rd has quit (Quit: hagb4rd). 20:49:47 zzo38: could you replace fueue.c with http://sprunge.us/EIBh please? modifications include fixing a memory leak, using union types, and fixing an issue with empty blocks 20:50:49 Arc_Koen: Done. 20:51:09 or maybe I should find a way to upload files myself I feel bad depending on you like that - is zzo38computer.cjb.net really your physical computer? 20:51:12 thank you 20:57:40 Yes it is my physical computer. 20:58:01 it works! [[)[~~~~()+1])])][[)$-----~1-[~:)~)[)[~:)~)]~:]:]~[~[$~H~~%~+])~48-):])~)~:])][)~[0]])$ 20:58:04 (Actually it is a router, but ports 70, 80, 194, and some others are connected to my computer.) 21:01:36 wtf 21:01:46 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 21:02:01 let me guess, 70 is gopher? 21:03:56 niiiiice 21:06:20 olsner: Yes 21:10:33 -!- kinoSi has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:11:01 -!- kinoSi has joined. 21:16:43 is someone familiar with MarioLANG? I think http://esolangs.org/wiki/Truth-machine#MarioLANG is missing ===== 21:17:17 without it I guess when input is '1' Mario would just die without outputting anything 21:38:14 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:51:27 Arc_Koen: would seem so... 21:56:12 my sleuth skills tell me it was made by atriq http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=Truth-machine&diff=30464&oldid=30434 21:57:32 something i'm also wondering is if you can take an elevator the other way after using it; that would also mess up things. 22:00:00 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:02:02 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 22:04:56 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:11:44 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 22:12:42 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 22:14:05 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 22:16:17 -!- TodPunk has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 22:19:08 -!- TodPunk has joined. 22:33:03 oerjan: I did not really understand how elevators worked exactly 22:33:04 -!- copumpkin has joined. 22:34:02 but I guess the reason there are different symbols for the start and end of an elevator is that it only works one way 22:34:50 hm 22:35:52 besides, I'm guessing items are one-use only 22:36:58 my confusion about elevators come from the first example: http://esolangs.org/wiki/MarioLANG#Commands_Explained 22:37:31 why did he need a ! (stop walking) and why are there three # and three " 22:37:44 ooooooh 22:37:49 ok I get it 22:37:55 it's an elevator as in the game 22:38:04 when Mario steps on it it actually moves 22:38:15 and it stop moving when it meets the " 22:38:31 *crunch* 22:38:59 so it's like ground, except it can move once - but it's like ground, not like an object 22:39:15 so in atriq's program it would probably work like a wall 22:41:12 well the talk page is all about the elevator 22:45:44 not about the same question though 22:46:37 -!- TodPunk has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 22:46:43 well it's about "your description of the elevator is incomplete and ambiguous" 22:49:45 -!- TodPunk has joined. 22:50:05 -!- augur has joined. 22:50:12 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:50:18 -!- augur has joined. 22:54:00 the lack of an implementation doesn't help. 22:58:07 I'd make one if it were less ambiguous 22:58:56 "move one space. take item. look what's under your feet. fall. move one space again" 23:00:14 however the truth machine _does_ seem to be in conflict with what's already written, not ambiguous. 23:00:37 yup the truth machine is completely wrong 23:00:57 but if items are one use only then I guess loops are not really possible 23:01:19 i don't think they can be, with the language being claimed TC 23:01:23 the wiki page says it's turing complete but there is nothing that looks like a proof 23:02:05 ok I'll guess I'll make a truth-machine with a comment about items 23:02:06 well it seems to have most of brainfuck + a flexible means of flow control, so it should be. 23:02:55 but indeed those are items, so cannot be one use only 23:03:26 there is simply no unbounded storage without unlimited items 23:05:53 oh hm and the examples on the page itself do seem to imply you need to stop walking to safely use an elevator... 23:06:52 yup 23:07:11 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:07:18 like in super mario - if you keep walking you'll fall off while the elevator is moving 23:08:29 i'm wondering about the exact meaning of [ if you pass over an elevator... 23:09:01 i think i'll make a truth machine with less assumptions 23:10:35 -!- itidus20 has joined. 23:10:57 oerjan: [ skips commands 23:11:03 elevators are parts, not commands 23:11:11 yep thought so 23:11:35 it would be like "if [condition], skip the wall" "will do" "BAM" 23:13:10 except parts _are_ also listed under commands. 23:13:50 -!- itidus21 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 23:13:53 oh, I confused commands for instructions 23:14:01 -!- Jafet has joined. 23:14:31 also i'm assuming if you make an elevator get down through a ground, mario will not phase through 23:14:43 though I wonder if mario dies if the elevator goes up through the ceiling 23:17:01 -!- hagb4rd has joined. 23:17:34 i edited it, is this one better? 23:19:10 it assumes the elevator doesn't go faster than Mario is walking, otherwise it needs to be taller 23:26:00 yup that sounds good 23:27:46 * oerjan imagines Arc_Koen listening to MarioLANG code through a screen reader 23:34:26 wow! this language is fun 23:37:00 I was thinking about an object-oriented language based on mario kart 23:37:17 with 8 participants in a 128 meters long race 23:37:28 every kart has an acceleration, speed, and position 23:37:55 and can do things at times specified by the program 23:38:04 (like using objects against other participants) 23:38:56 and of course everybody wants to win so karts cannot decelerate willingly (but can be slow down or stopped by objects used by other karts) 23:42:19 -!- ais523 has quit. 23:44:03 oh, my mistake, these are DVD-9's 23:44:07 so that's like 180 GB 23:44:57 anyway have a good night 23:45:08 -!- Arc_Koen has quit (Quit: Are you telling me you can build a time machine but you can't cook a cheese soufflé? You've got your priorities all wrong!). 23:55:43 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 23:55:59 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 23:58:08 -!- oerjan has joined.