< 1347926426 828668 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And there's a bit at the end where it takes you into a "spooky" room < 1347926433 482042 :kwertii!~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: the flipside of web dev is that the reason you can get away with all that is because you will be told, "this must be done in 2 weeks, we didn't spec it properly, we're already over budget, so we don't care how you make it work, just do it" < 1347926455 418202 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that really depends on the company < 1347926591 433394 :kwertii!~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, there's a lot of variance < 1347926647 299672 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure it's more common with web dev than other areas of programming < 1347926650 777302 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't have the experience to know < 1347926673 489416 :JaBoJa!~kvirc@erx234.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1347926768 162113 :kwertii!~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think web dev is the most publicly visible (to non-technical people) segment of programming, and that tends to attract a whole lot of people and money who are utterly disinterested in technical details. If you have a spot at a good firm, it's fine, but if you're trying to freelance, there's a LOT of low-end work to wade through. < 1347926800 220711 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, i am not talking about freelancing < 1347926855 989416 :kwertii!~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii PRIVMSG #esoteric :if we're going to say "it's a great field for language nerds if you're at a good firm"... well, that could apply to any field < 1347926861 734534 :JaBoJa|2!~kvirc@erx234.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1347926867 359410 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really < 1347926892 862474 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :a great embedded systems company might be a great place to work, but you won't get to use much of anything other than C < 1347926903 372040 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ATS? < 1347926909 10069 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :looooooooool < 1347926922 800042 :kwertii!~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, with some exceptions < 1347926950 697630 :kwertii!~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you're writing video games or word processors or music sequencer apps, there's no reason you couldn't do so in if you were at an enlightened firm < 1347926961 933064 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm saying web developers have greater freedom to choose language, and also better "typical" languages, than (say) kernel programmers, high-frequency traders, or enterprise business software developers < 1347926971 104536 :JaBoJa!~kvirc@erx234.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1347927006 338597 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that C is a bad language for kernel development (that's a different argument anyway), but it doesn't scratch that PL nerd itch < 1347927010 950774 :kwertii!~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps I'm biased, since I'm a web developer who has been trying to convince people to do a project in Lisp for the better part of a decade now :) < 1347927044 458115 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1347927060 85061 :kwertii!~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii PRIVMSG #esoteric :the reply is always: "Sure, Lisp is cool and all, but if you get hit by a bus, who will pick up where you left off? Do it in Rails and we can find 5 million people tomorrow." < 1347927079 228551 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1347927081 475075 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a valid argument < 1347927117 92009 :kwertii!~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii PRIVMSG #esoteric :a few tiers down from that, there's a whole mass of "let's hire overseas programmers to do it in PHP for $15 an hour" web dev < 1347927117 815175 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you still get to use ruby, javascript, and maybe C++, every day if you like < 1347927122 800076 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :another variant of that argument might be, but if you start being annoying who will replace you when we fire you? < 1347927152 395916 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe "start being annoying" is wrong < 1347927153 575631 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://twitter.com/cperciva/status/247848282880106496 < 1347927164 156345 :kwertii!~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: well, no business should have a single point of failure. I agree with the principle. < 1347927185 54387 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :kwertii: anyway i don't care about your employers >:) < 1347927221 331060 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :some businesses inevitably have a single point of failure < 1347927224 197907 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :startups have many < 1347927238 567678 :kwertii!~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: wasn't asking you to care, not sure where you're going with that < 1347927269 366907 :kwertii!~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: of course. and the process of developing the business should include reducing the single points of failure to the greatest extent possible, to minimize risk for all involved < 1347927304 110447 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes and no < 1347927316 672327 :kwertii!~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: There are a few enlightened people in high freq trading. One I can think of off the top of my head, Jane Street Capital, works mainly in OCaml < 1347927319 111993 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :by starting a company or joining a startup, you are deliberately taking on risk < 1347927341 371416 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not comfortable calling the people who use the languages i like more "enlightened" < 1347927354 901784 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :my point is about flexibility, not about one language over another < 1347927376 471027 :kwertii!~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever you want to call it :) < 1347927395 660486 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean the most popular language in web dev is also one of the worst languages to ever become popular < 1347927457 531892 :kwertii!~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii PRIVMSG #esoteric :taking on risk is inevitable, but there are many degrees of risk. a company built around is a lot riskier than a company built around C, PHP, or Ruby, all else being the same. it's just much harder to find staff who can comprehend obscure languages. < 1347927486 874277 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't need to convince me of that < 1347927509 645104 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :my point about risk was a tangent from the PL discussion, i did not mean to imply that you should use the most obscure language for your startup < 1347927523 14073 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(there are some benefits to using a somewhat obscure language, though, as paul graham pointed out) < 1347927535 429320 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(dude's kind of a blowhard but he makes some good points from time to time) < 1347927573 623929 :kwertii!~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii PRIVMSG #esoteric :if PG were right, there'd be a lot more startups built on Lisp, and there'd be VC firms specializing in Lisp. it seems that language choice is a rather minor factor in the massive number of variables that go into a startup, though. < 1347927584 33982 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i agree with that too < 1347927600 510712 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm talking about http://paulgraham.com/pypar.html < 1347927613 257892 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is not about lisp circa 2012 but about python circa 2004 < 1347927622 20782 :kwertii!~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I've read it, and most of the other pg essays < 1347927625 42467 :kwertii!~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii PRIVMSG #esoteric :he has a point < 1347927672 845286 :kwertii!~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was referring to the other essay where he talks about what a huge competitive advantage it was to be using Common Lisp at ViaWeb in the 90s < 1347927691 730053 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that is massively over-fitted < 1347927716 420639 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sure that Lisp is a competitive advantage over vintage C++ for web dev < 1347927737 360734 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess that it could be painful for someone who can code in lisp well to be forced to code in c < 1347927756 995376 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and be daydreaming about what it would be like if they could use lisp < 1347927774 127169 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i think he is extrapolating too much from a success in a very early stage of the web < 1347927786 688146 :kwertii!~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd love to have the resources to start a web shop on CL or Clojure. The average quality level of the programmers is much higher, as per the python essay. But it's much, much harder to scale. You (apparently) get a better return on capital with 100 mid-skill Ruby programmers than you'd get from the 40 Lisp programmers you could hire for that money. < 1347927797 545221 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically there were no good web dev languages at the time, and he kinda hacked one together in lisp (er, "on lisp"? ;) < 1347927811 268024 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :today there are many cood web dev languages, ergo no need for Lisp in particular < 1347927815 454610 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :many good* < 1347927831 192628 :kwertii!~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus it'll take you years to find 40 Lisp programmers, but you can get 100 mediocre Ruby programmers in a few months < 1347927862 805811 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think choosing Python for a company in 2004 would have been a really good idea < 1347927872 707050 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :not just because it was semi-obscure -- but because it became much popular within a few years < 1347927877 204974 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the have your cake and eat it too scenario < 1347927894 625610 :kwertii!~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what I'm thinking / hoping for Clojure over the next few years < 1347927916 977169 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you start out with the high quality programmers, and then by the time you need to scale you can do so < 1347927929 956595 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously this is tricky to time ;) < 1347928054 835838 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :lisp is older than c right? < 1347928057 973169 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1347928087 772089 :kwertii!~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii PRIVMSG #esoteric :of still-used languages, only FORTRAN is older (if you're not counting assembly as a language) < 1347928099 846962 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yet, lisp remains obscure < 1347928117 640662 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :even assembly is less obscure < 1347928128 474682 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :(guessing :P ) < 1347928166 839444 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lot of people learn a little tiny bit of "lisp" < 1347928171 75721 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :few use it for any real projects, though < 1347928215 159735 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe modern computer power will help < 1347928226 648643 :kwertii!~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clojure (a Lisp for the JVM) is starting to become popular < 1347928260 404049 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@78.245.243.132 QUIT :Quit: Arc_Koen < 1347928315 835575 :kwertii!~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the issue is that most programmers can't grasp what makes Lisp different from other languages. they just think it's an imperative language with a funny parentheses based syntax. so they say, "eh, so what" and move on. < 1347928327 102674 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1347928333 682981 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it annoys me to no end how people can't get past the parentheses < 1347928341 2964 :kwertii!~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, the range of libraries available for Common Lisp and Scheme has been quite poor compared to (say) Java or C. < 1347928358 955853 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe when enough time passes, someone will write a book to guide peopel < 1347928362 465558 :kwertii!~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii PRIVMSG #esoteric :the CL community is openly hostile to newcomers, which doesn't help. < 1347928366 662526 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :lisp hasnt been around long enough < 1347928378 830130 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :even the advocates of lisp focus way too much on syntax (omg Lisp has none!) < 1347928381 367199 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a lie btw < 1347928389 892582 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :every special form constitutes syntax < 1347928413 426422 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it (let ((x 3) (y 4)) ...) or (let (x 3 y 4) ...)? well, CL and Scheme differ on this point, and that is a syntactic difference < 1347928422 60074 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, open hostility to newcomers... now this seems to be more likely part of the cause for lisp obscurity.. maybe they enjoy obscurity < 1347928460 411899 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont think a world in which lisp was coopted by the mainstream would be much fun for anyone < 1347928465 369771 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Is it foo(name=blah, contents=blam) or foo(title=blah, body=blam)? < 1347928484 441730 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Library X and library Y in Python differ on that, and that's a syntactic difference. < 1347928492 589701 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo(name(blah) (contents(blah))) < 1347928496 852401 :kwertii!~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: in that sense, every macro you write introduces new syntax. I think the point of the "no syntax" argument is rather that everything is an S-expression < 1347928498 680492 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dunno... i dont know lisp < 1347928501 714058 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway that's a silly argument. < 1347928525 993107 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can define syntax in a way that lisp has a lot of it, or not a lot of it, and it won't change anything about lisp. < 1347928535 681840 :kwertii!~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: as opposed to the 20-odd special syntax arrangements in Algol-derived languages - foo + bar; versus foo++; versus foo(bar); etc < 1347928554 93624 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kwertii: sure but S-expressions are only one of the layers of what i'd call syntax < 1347928569 90598 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if Lisp is only S-expressions then Lisp is only a data language (like XML) and not a programming language < 1347928576 511960 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to say what the token 'defun' means and what the token 'let' means and such < 1347928579 559629 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1347928580 405389 :kwertii!~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I'd call those things you mentioned "semantics" rather than syntax < 1347928580 687145 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf is right of course < 1347928600 222239 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :see i think the difference between (let ((x 3) (y 4)) ...) and (let (x 3 y 4) ...) is obviously a syntactic one < 1347928671 91620 :kwertii!~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: totally semantics. the syntax of both is just atoms and lists. < 1347928695 692602 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is an arbitrary difference of opinion < 1347928696 136149 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The syntax of booth "foo + bar" and "foo++" is just characters! < 1347928732 674759 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1347928740 302438 :kwertii!~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: it's arbitrary in some sense, but these terms have been kind of well defined in linguistics and comp sci already < 1347928746 753163 :kwertii!~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii PRIVMSG #esoteric :though you're right, the line is not always clear < 1347928760 542657 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, but many computer scientists include abstract syntax in the definition of syntax < 1347928776 258663 :kwertii!~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: yeah, and that's why you need ridiculously complicated parsers to tokenize a language like that and make ... an S-tree graph out of it < 1347928785 830396 :kwertii!~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii PRIVMSG #esoteric :*s-exp tree < 1347928802 735266 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kwertii: I think "C syntax -> AST" is a much simpler transformation than "AST -> optimized machine code" < 1347928869 297743 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway this is a silly argument, like I said. < 1347928871 558079 :kwertii!~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii PRIVMSG #esoteric :point is, C/whatever-language syntax is just a set of transformations on an s-exp tree. if you call those transformations "the syntax of C", then you can see where people come up with "Lisp has no syntax" (which isn't strictly true, but that's where it comes from) < 1347928886 28590 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's all just functions on the natural numbers < 1347928890 158340 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want to say that lisp "has no syntax", fine. If you want to say that it "has syntax", fine. < 1347928913 501910 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if i want to say it has syntax and syntax? < 1347928924 206914 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can say that too, itidus21. < 1347928932 779910 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1347928937 680204 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21 has a special exemption such that he/she/it can say whatever he/she/it wants. < 1347928945 594045 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would say that Lisp has three layers of syntax where most languages have two (lexical and parse tree) < 1347928960 306859 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION should dedicate his life to the noble cause of converting arguments about words to either nothing or arguments about meaning. < 1347928976 935698 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :in particular, people like syntax to be something static, and reserve "semantics" for runtime behavior < 1347929000 885796 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I know that CL does have some notion of compile time versus run time < 1347929035 55420 :kwertii!~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: you plan to get a philosophy degree? :) < 1347929046 823339 :kwertii!~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I have one. it's not worth the trouble < 1347929053 801032 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems weird to say that we have no idea whether we should write (let ((x 3)) ...) or (let (x 3) ...) until runtime < 1347929069 192401 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kwertii: Philosophists spend way too much time arguing about things that aren't meaning. :-( < 1347929079 584643 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I think everything is really arguments about words < 1347929085 389136 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorrychaf < 1347929088 377400 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kwertii: Raymond Smullyan is a good philosophist, though. < 1347929095 255676 :kwertii!~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: they spend plenty of time bickering over trivial distinctions of meaning between obscure technical terms that only 50 people in the entire world care about. < 1347929100 28005 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@quote formalist < 1347929100 355870 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :SaulGorn says: A formalist is one who cannot understand a theory unless it is meaningless. < 1347929115 384550 :kwertii!~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I love Raymond Smullyan! Never met anyone who's heard of him, though, and Taoism is laughed out of the room in most academic phil depts in the US. < 1347929126 81238 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i downloaded some of his books < 1347929128 365776 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :now you have met at least two of us < 1347929129 501768 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :three! < 1347929131 925340 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :havent e-read any of them < 1347929139 824410 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i found him on the wiki page of american taoists < 1347929141 241986 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kwertii: I don't care for philosophy departments much. < 1347929152 694047 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Have you heard of Raymond Smullyan from a source other than me? < 1347929154 822293 :kwertii!~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: me, neither. thus, I work as a programmer rather than in a phil dept < 1347929164 735666 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: yes, from _The Mind's I_ < 1347929168 208683 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :though i think i forgot the name < 1347929173 868631 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, yes. < 1347929178 95367 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :_The Mind's I_ is good. < 1347929184 89138 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially the Raymond Smullyan parts. :-) < 1347929186 624757 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And also other parts.) < 1347929245 703499 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://oi49.tinypic.com/35i0p5s.jpg < 1347929256 928000 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is my (unread) smullyan books < 1347929260 488343 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :gotta go out now bye < 1347929268 927960 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ttyl < 1347929282 527465 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: You should read some of Smullyan's books! < 1347929294 8131 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably < 1347929295 989876 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suck at reading < 1347929309 53817 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Smullyan's books are so much fun to read, though. < 1347930247 878111 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Worlds stores a file with a silly encryption system < 1347930260 601529 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although, admittedly, I only broke it with a Java decompiler < 1347930617 831550 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1347931020 327349 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION high fives Sgeo < 1347931034 676964 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love breaking silly encryption with a java decompiler < 1347931045 578217 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :420 break silly encryption with a java decompiler every day < 1347931730 572986 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in, just reading what the algorithm is < 1347931744 711959 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which I guess makes it not really encryption < 1347931753 159307 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :More of ... an obfuscation < 1347931760 999038 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no key. < 1347932040 439584 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1347932054 171 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is how i cheated at yahoo games poker in high school < 1347932427 369713 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, did you get arrested < 1347932472 791393 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kid, we only got one question. Have you ever been arrested? < 1347932587 576631 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1347932593 210862 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not real money :/ < 1347932602 727235 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :trollcoins only < 1347933639 497750 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT : < 1347934407 62009 :augur!~augur@129-2-129-35.wireless.umd.edu QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1347934418 382928 :JaBoJa|2!~kvirc@erx234.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl QUIT :Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/ < 1347934742 332465 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1347935726 75024 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1347936127 3786 :ion!ion@heh.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1347936173 978796 :kwertii!~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii QUIT :Quit: kwertii < 1347936303 285905 :ion!ion@heh.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1347937330 56279 :augur!~augur@c-98-218-127-183.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1347938607 300391 :augur!~augur@c-98-218-127-183.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1347938642 606140 :augur!~augur@c-98-218-127-183.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1347938745 10896 :augur_!~augur@c-98-218-127-183.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1347938761 23049 :augur!~augur@c-98-218-127-183.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1347938811 496078 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :another interesting american taoist on the wiki page was ursula something, who wrote some books the earthsea something < 1347939026 179484 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :^wikipedia < 1347939450 132722 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :very specific < 1347939470 757393 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :^en.wikipedia < 1347940258 284912 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1347940805 144698 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure how I feel about ClojureScript macros being Clojure < 1347940817 753939 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's kind of weird, having one language at runtime and a different at compile-time < 1347940820 637102 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sort of un-lispy < 1347941614 897685 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1347942242 350887 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF < 1347942256 963647 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This class provides a public static... I guess factory is the best term. < 1347942258 974702 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Overloads it < 1347942269 105064 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But one of the overloads just throws an exception < 1347942284 295144 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, no, I misread ut < 1347942284 956272 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it < 1347942425 361369 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :scheme also has one language at runtime and another for macros, sort of < 1347942446 764379 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has several languages for macros, and you can use regular scheme in a cumbersome way < 1347942800 132028 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has several languages for macros? < 1347943157 211795 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :syntax-rules and syntax-case < 1347943195 469191 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think syntax-case is not in r5rs, but is commonly implemented and there is a portable implementation of it < 1347943198 542053 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something < 1347943397 134470 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is it called if an assembler (which includes macros) has a section which can compile code into memory and then it is executed by an emulator before (or while) the output file of the section for file output is written? < 1347943480 759632 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's called madness < 1347943498 162849 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Madness? < 1347943499 14303 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :emulator alligator < 1347943528 510120 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Am I madness? < 1347943563 661623 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mad, call I it; for, to define true madness, what is't but to be nothing else but mad? < 1347943626 285929 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is an area of the mind that could be called unsane, beyond sanity, and yet not insane. Think of a circle with a fine split in it. At one end there's insanity. You go around the circle to sanity, and on the other end of the circle, close to insanity, but not insanity, is unsanity. < 1347943667 484573 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have read of a "pathocircle" which is a circle with one point missing < 1347943878 710215 :heroux!~heroux@5070823C.static.ziggozakelijk.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1347944259 94595 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1347944949 624601 :heroux!~heroux@5070823C.static.ziggozakelijk.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1347945628 464377 :augur_!~augur@c-98-218-127-183.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1347946656 863239 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1347947480 313755 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You say assembler like that is madness? Well, the assembler I use to write Famicom programs is like that. So, perhaps it is madness, too. < 1347947734 90553 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Did you write said Famicom assembler? < 1347947776 835966 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That'd be a unique feature in an assembler, I think. < 1347948046 617753 :kallisti!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fun fact, on May 1st 2012, Sweden made http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4-HO-MET illegal. < 1347948101 905628 :kallisti!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's also probably illegal under the US Federal Analog Act, when bought or sold for human consumption. < 1347948115 103854 :kallisti!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not any international law. < 1347948341 683712 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i took that once < 1347948351 985089 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It is MagicKit assembler, although I have added various features and fixed various bugs, including that one I mentioned above. I also added macros to check if it is on the first or last pass, and some other things too. < 1347948559 431497 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Therefore my program is "Unofficial MagicKit". < 1347948684 248483 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also was thinking about custom mappers. < 1347948691 89800 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc was taking 4-HO-MET before it was illegal. < 1347948701 906177 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeppppp < 1347948752 796056 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: ooc, why do you mention 4-HO-MET? < 1347948815 660958 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :One feature I have added is NES 2.0 headers. Someone wanted me to make NES 2.0 headers the default, but I don't want to. < 1347948869 571451 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: have you seen http://ugcs.net/~keegan/complexity.html < 1347949055 351820 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Features I intend to add but not yet have done so, are UNIF format, DotFami format, character encoding translation tables, and a few other things. < 1347949152 721566 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: When does a drug stop being experimental? < 1347949169 641316 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tomorrow. < 1347949310 841122 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have an idea in the Dungeons&Dragons game. Some assassins try to kill me, and I have a correspond spell to communicate with anyone regardless of distance, so I have idea: During the day time when it is light, I can use this spell to tell them it is dark. < 1347949434 433022 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like this? < 1347949570 364518 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: did you know it is the 40th birthday of BART? < 1347949575 889187 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are banners up at stations and everything < 1347949585 808701 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the system actually opened on 9/11/1972 but i guess they wanted to avoid that date < 1347949629 461872 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :My cjb.net account seems broken < 1347949732 510389 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think my account expired but now I don't know how to create an account. < 1347949779 70135 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Nope, haven't been to SF in a while. < 1347950137 994832 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess EPA is pretty far from the end of BART < 1347950228 380461 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep. < 1347950231 745913 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Millbrae, I guess. < 1347950266 781315 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The way I usually get to SFO is Caltrain to Millbrae and then BART. < 1347950327 552333 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1347950338 452411 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :SFO BART is ridiculous < 1347950354 344915 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :they should have just extended the SFO people mover to Milbrae < 1347950446 660027 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :using big money airport tax funds to do so < 1347950482 625663 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :also they should extend PATH to Newark Airport < 1347950511 918006 :kallisti!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: No I haven't. have you read TiHKAL? < 1347950517 548940 :kallisti!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is that link? < 1347950535 142852 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the link is a quiz "Complexity class or experimental drug" < 1347950541 437807 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have read PiHKAL and parts of TiHKAL i think < 1347950572 554753 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I was thinking TiHKAL was a CS book. < 1347950574 245891 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like TAPL. < 1347950581 266445 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehehe < 1347950583 342825 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is clearly not very good at that quiz. < 1347950583 361257 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you see < 1347950601 39346 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Types in Higher-Kinded Algebraic Logic < 1347950636 409323 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: tell who it is dark, the assassins? < 1347951046 269149 :kallisti!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :06:42 < kmc> the link is a quiz "Complexity class or experimental drug" < 1347951049 262698 :kallisti!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol'd < 1347951075 408071 :kallisti!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: my god < 1347951087 101613 :kallisti!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which doesn't actually exist) < 1347951112 666196 :kallisti!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Christian upgringing. it's in the lexicon. < 1347951126 541927 :kallisti!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :((??)) < 1347951200 973863 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: Yes. < 1347951499 338419 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: but what if they don't believe you < 1347951566 110607 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry :d < 1347951706 292223 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought of that too < 1347951842 732792 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1347952368 585323 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1347953907 947533 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1347954013 366580 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Account creation on cjb.net seems disabled, so I asked someone else to make a subdomain of one of theirs; they cannot do so, so instead we made up a new domain name: zzo38computer.org < 1347954387 483252 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: i miss writing html < 1347954408 988615 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least outputting html < 1347954415 868457 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I rarely write HTML < 1347954432 553489 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a wonderful thing < 1347954442 709492 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :almost anyone could do it < 1347954513 153405 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I like Hiccup < 1347954595 90109 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :This Is My Post

I don't know hiccup.


< 1347954638 719094 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't you just feel trolled when you see html code? < 1347954704 378077 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :like theres something evil about posting it < 1347954710 240516 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(html [:html [:head [:title "This Is My Post]] [:body {:bgcolor "#FFFFFF"} [:h1 "I do know Hiccup."] [:br] [:img {:src "shrug.jpg}]]]) < 1347954730 266082 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(comment "I only think that's correct, I do not know for certain < 1347954734 804931 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :") < 1347954739 938633 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, forgot to close a string < 1347954746 972377 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(html [:html [:head [:title "This Is My Post]] [:body {:bgcolor "#FFFFFF"} [:h1 "I do know Hiccup."] [:br] [:img {:src "shrug.jpg"}]]]) < 1347954764 25510 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(html [:html [:head [:title "This Is My Post"]] [:body {:bgcolor "#FFFFFF"} [:h1 "I do know Hiccup."] [:br] [:img {:src "shrug.jpg"}]]]) < 1347955072 953162 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, ok, so I don't know hiccup that well < 1347955099 780294 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That img could be replaced with (image "shrug.jpg") < 1347955387 339531 :UnknownCharacter!~blueword_@c-67-172-233-44.hsd1.ut.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1347955397 801399 :UnknownCharacter!~blueword_@c-67-172-233-44.hsd1.ut.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i loveeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee < 1347955566 659808 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :`WELCOME UnknownCharacter < 1347955578 211069 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :UNKNOWNCHARACTER: WELCOME TO THE INTERNATIONAL HUB FOR ESOTERIC PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE DESIGN AND DEPLOYMENT! FOR MORE INFORMATION, CHECK OUT OUR WIKI: HTTP://ESOLANGS.ORG/WIKI/MAIN_PAGE. (FOR THE OTHER KIND OF ESOTERICA, TRY #ESOTERIC ON IRC.DAL.NET.) < 1347955615 219225 :UnknownCharacter!~blueword_@c-67-172-233-44.hsd1.ut.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was just passing by < 1347955621 457417 :UnknownCharacter!~blueword_@c-67-172-233-44.hsd1.ut.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but thanks for welcoming me < 1347955624 562213 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh its just a bot command < 1347955640 823110 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it makes for grandoise welcomings < 1347955643 59866 :UnknownCharacter!~blueword_@c-67-172-233-44.hsd1.ut.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, fuck u then < 1347955682 444296 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :srory < 1347955685 450474 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :^sorry < 1347955695 221472 :UnknownCharacter!~blueword_@c-67-172-233-44.hsd1.ut.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :im sorry, 2 < 1347955712 841111 :UnknownCharacter!~blueword_@c-67-172-233-44.hsd1.ut.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's make out to make up only if u r a hot girl < 1347955726 507868 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :im not sure if there are any girls here < 1347955740 348509 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's lymia, or did she leave < 1347955742 452319 :UnknownCharacter!~blueword_@c-67-172-233-44.hsd1.ut.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :let alone hot ones < 1347955744 58159 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :she hasn't talked in a while < 1347955760 702408 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was tiffany but we successfully scared her off < 1347955774 65132 :UnknownCharacter!~blueword_@c-67-172-233-44.hsd1.ut.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love girls whose names start with t < 1347955845 6158 :UnknownCharacter!~blueword_@c-67-172-233-44.hsd1.ut.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :at any rate < 1347955855 922239 :UnknownCharacter!~blueword_@c-67-172-233-44.hsd1.ut.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i came here to tell you all a story < 1347955879 958966 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :go on... < 1347955919 343630 :UnknownCharacter!~blueword_@c-67-172-233-44.hsd1.ut.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :a story about how i fell in love... and a few years later died in a pool of blood and tears < 1347955985 411769 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1347955988 338842 :UnknownCharacter!~blueword_@c-67-172-233-44.hsd1.ut.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, im dead but my spirit remained. somehow I am able to chat through the internet. < 1347955988 532401 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that must be nice < 1347956017 741504 :UnknownCharacter!~blueword_@c-67-172-233-44.hsd1.ut.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was nice at the beginning. All the promises, the innocense, the freedom. < 1347956047 273867 :UnknownCharacter!~blueword_@c-67-172-233-44.hsd1.ut.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that all changed one fated stormy night. < 1347956076 448810 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the beginning of being dead or the beginning of being in love < 1347956092 851849 :UnknownCharacter!~blueword_@c-67-172-233-44.hsd1.ut.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :of being in love < 1347956116 313290 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1347956198 296278 :UnknownCharacter!~blueword_@c-67-172-233-44.hsd1.ut.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I found out that she didn't love me anymore. That she never really did. Confused and without any desire to do anything but let out the blackest of emotions out of my heart. < 1347956210 28722 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you kill her then < 1347956215 804516 :UnknownCharacter!~blueword_@c-67-172-233-44.hsd1.ut.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I broke mind, spirit, soul < 1347956259 925275 :UnknownCharacter!~blueword_@c-67-172-233-44.hsd1.ut.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :she had broken my heart... < 1347956296 925840 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway anyway skip to the blood and tears < 1347956321 516546 :UnknownCharacter!~blueword_@c-67-172-233-44.hsd1.ut.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i was crying already. < 1347956335 470164 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok so who stabbed whom < 1347956340 320960 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you both stab each other < 1347956357 251016 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1347956362 610937 :UnknownCharacter!~blueword_@c-67-172-233-44.hsd1.ut.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the rain covering my tears... i sat down on some stairs leading to a parking lot < 1347956379 449319 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you type a bit faster please < 1347956380 244364 :UnknownCharacter!~blueword_@c-67-172-233-44.hsd1.ut.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i wondered why this all happened. < 1347956390 173763 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm getting bored between messages < 1347956398 754553 :UnknownCharacter!~blueword_@c-67-172-233-44.hsd1.ut.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :dont rush me, emotions cant be rushed < 1347956408 128620 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but typing can < 1347956423 293825 :UnknownCharacter!~blueword_@c-67-172-233-44.hsd1.ut.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :typing can be an emotion < 1347956438 28239 :UnknownCharacter!~blueword_@c-67-172-233-44.hsd1.ut.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you dont wanna listen to the story < 1347956440 310270 :UnknownCharacter!~blueword_@c-67-172-233-44.hsd1.ut.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :then dont < 1347956443 437432 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no i do < 1347956445 727765 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the point < 1347956454 932941 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway go on < 1347956503 331743 :UnknownCharacter!~blueword_@c-67-172-233-44.hsd1.ut.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Devastate I was. Lost in my thoughts. Feeling an immense pain in my chest. Growing tighter as I thought about her grin < 1347956511 370941 :kallisti!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: please let the man tell his story. < 1347956535 12855 :UnknownCharacter!~blueword_@c-67-172-233-44.hsd1.ut.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf kallisti < 1347956544 475680 :UnknownCharacter!~blueword_@c-67-172-233-44.hsd1.ut.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :psionics? < 1347956552 151599 :kallisti!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's been known to happen. < 1347956570 217806 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh for fuck's sake story story story < 1347956606 912611 :UnknownCharacter!~blueword_@c-67-172-233-44.hsd1.ut.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :remembering her indifference. It hurted ... it twisted my insides. < 1347956617 487707 :UnknownCharacter!~blueword_@c-67-172-233-44.hsd1.ut.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wanted for it to stop. And then suddenly, I knew how. < 1347956639 381219 :kallisti!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :kill her? < 1347956656 252830 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :seppuku? < 1347956658 711852 :UnknownCharacter!~blueword_@c-67-172-233-44.hsd1.ut.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I knew also that if I did what I was planning on doing. I may stop having a heart < 1347956668 688577 :UnknownCharacter!~blueword_@c-67-172-233-44.hsd1.ut.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I didn't care... I just wanted the pain to go away. < 1347956669 471168 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :organ donation? < 1347956679 837371 :UnknownCharacter!~blueword_@c-67-172-233-44.hsd1.ut.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nop, i killed myself. < 1347956684 990185 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how < 1347956686 929524 :UnknownCharacter!~blueword_@c-67-172-233-44.hsd1.ut.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a knife. < 1347956692 530831 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, where < 1347956701 918127 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hope you donated your organs < 1347956732 83605 :UnknownCharacter!~blueword_@c-67-172-233-44.hsd1.ut.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol... okay, I didn't kill myself... but i wish i had thought of that. < 1347956754 66790 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :well how does the story land you here? < 1347956770 428645 :UnknownCharacter!~blueword_@c-67-172-233-44.hsd1.ut.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i lost my train of thought. sorry < 1347956793 303956 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean.. can you guide the story through to arriving at #esoteric ? < 1347956827 124809 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :he thought it was the other sort of esoteric and hoped he could get spiritual guidance < 1347956834 610308 :UnknownCharacter!~blueword_@c-67-172-233-44.hsd1.ut.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some heavies can only be taken away by talking about it. < 1347956844 273491 :UnknownCharacter!~blueword_@c-67-172-233-44.hsd1.ut.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or i think thats how the quote goes. < 1347956872 462232 :UnknownCharacter!~blueword_@c-67-172-233-44.hsd1.ut.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, here I am talking about it. Letting the pain go away. < 1347956873 414512 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :best way to deal with heavies is a spy or sniper, don't let anyone tell you different < 1347956891 913597 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does seem that way.. he hasn't made any references to brainfuck, lisp, turing, or haskell < 1347956900 570627 :UnknownCharacter!~blueword_@c-67-172-233-44.hsd1.ut.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, this is how the story really goes. < 1347956930 306863 :UnknownCharacter!~blueword_@c-67-172-233-44.hsd1.ut.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was suffering a lot. I wanted the pain to stop. < 1347956967 274042 :UnknownCharacter!~blueword_@c-67-172-233-44.hsd1.ut.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, I decided to break all the promises that I did to her, Destroy all of our dreams, just forget she ever existed. < 1347957002 124329 :UnknownCharacter!~blueword_@c-67-172-233-44.hsd1.ut.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :not much emotion said there cause at this point... at felt indifferent as well. < 1347957017 149626 :UnknownCharacter!~blueword_@c-67-172-233-44.hsd1.ut.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, the emotions will come back from time to time. < 1347957036 76869 :UnknownCharacter!~blueword_@c-67-172-233-44.hsd1.ut.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It haunts me. Makes me wonder if what I lived that night was how I imagine it to be. < 1347957061 743642 :UnknownCharacter!~blueword_@c-67-172-233-44.hsd1.ut.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for dying in a pool of blood and tears < 1347957071 926936 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that probably didn't happen < 1347957076 620926 :UnknownCharacter!~blueword_@c-67-172-233-44.hsd1.ut.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it hasnt happened yet... but somehow I know it will. < 1347957113 350012 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... to deal with your suicidal thoughts as a result of a bitter and traumatising breakup, you came to a channel about weird programming languages < 1347957114 102180 :UnknownCharacter!~blueword_@c-67-172-233-44.hsd1.ut.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd never know what truly happen... my emotions have clouded my memory. So, id never know either. < 1347957131 609307 :UnknownCharacter!~blueword_@c-67-172-233-44.hsd1.ut.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently, phantom < 1347957132 523937 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :couldn't you talk to a psychiatrist, or one of those helplines they have? < 1347957145 856518 :UnknownCharacter!~blueword_@c-67-172-233-44.hsd1.ut.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :they kinda annoy me < 1347957146 971615 :UnknownCharacter!~blueword_@c-67-172-233-44.hsd1.ut.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so no < 1347957154 600712 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1347957167 448338 :UnknownCharacter!~blueword_@c-67-172-233-44.hsd1.ut.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus, im an artist. < 1347957184 279875 :UnknownCharacter!~blueword_@c-67-172-233-44.hsd1.ut.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I chose to be a story teller this time to express my self. < 1347957189 466591 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, help someone came here looking for advice < 1347957199 254140 :UnknownCharacter!~blueword_@c-67-172-233-44.hsd1.ut.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i did? < 1347957212 12156 :UnknownCharacter!~blueword_@c-67-172-233-44.hsd1.ut.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was just telling a story in the first person xD < 1347957225 28096 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, my unicode setup isn't good enough to handle unknown characters < 1347957259 640557 :UnknownCharacter!~blueword_@c-67-172-233-44.hsd1.ut.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let your wonder guide you in finding the mysteries and the unknown. < 1347957315 323308 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1347957323 680135 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this channel isn't about the other sort of esoteric btw < 1347957330 282334 :UnknownCharacter!~blueword_@c-67-172-233-44.hsd1.ut.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ha, it was fun. < 1347957330 511740 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just in case you hadn't realised < 1347957336 739417 :UnknownCharacter!~blueword_@c-67-172-233-44.hsd1.ut.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was fun anyway. < 1347957336 807344 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the topic isn't helpful right now < 1347957350 166357 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(was esme the name of your mysterious rejectress) < 1347957358 482157 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder if he realizes what this channel is about < 1347957378 442454 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i realize it, but i just ignore the purpose of this channel < 1347957380 448643 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: it _does_ say "programming language" in plain text, that's better than normal < 1347957384 158204 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i am aware of it < 1347957386 561512 :UnknownCharacter!~blueword_@c-67-172-233-44.hsd1.ut.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nop. < 1347957396 586761 :UnknownCharacter!~blueword_@c-67-172-233-44.hsd1.ut.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Her name isnt esme. < 1347957409 173826 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it must be ralda < 1347957419 465319 :UnknownCharacter!~blueword_@c-67-172-233-44.hsd1.ut.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :close < 1347957420 646669 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's only logical < 1347957424 880167 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :talda? < 1347957433 344298 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :told'ya? < 1347957434 371004 :UnknownCharacter!~blueword_@c-67-172-233-44.hsd1.ut.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup, thats it < 1347957471 457260 :UnknownCharacter!~blueword_@c-67-172-233-44.hsd1.ut.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :any huevos, I think imma let you computer geeks do your stuff < 1347957475 15363 :UnknownCharacter!~blueword_@c-67-172-233-44.hsd1.ut.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :now < 1347957502 684458 :UnknownCharacter!~blueword_@c-67-172-233-44.hsd1.ut.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so long and thanks for listening < 1347957510 739687 :UnknownCharacter!~blueword_@c-67-172-233-44.hsd1.ut.comcast.net PART :#esoteric < 1347957517 868712 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that was surreal < 1347957682 156513 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is the world unusually noisy today :( < 1347957718 11812 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather, why is the _low_ noise unusually annoying < 1347958108 24935 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was going to ask if someone pointed him to a hotline, but I see it was mentioned < 1347959171 266601 :soundnfury!~edward@static-87-243-208-102.adsl.hotchilli.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1347967238 305135 :kinoSi!~kinosi@27-96-32-84.ipq.jp QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1347967265 722168 :kinoSi!~kinosi@27-96-32-84.ipq.jp JOIN :#esoteric < 1347967823 588730 :ztirf!~ztirf@HSI-KBW-078-043-031-070.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1347969155 651564 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1347969692 793104 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1347969757 142168 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1347969771 507507 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1347969780 956547 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i fixed your fibonacci a little < 1347969929 587071 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Before fixing, was it so that F_{n-2} + F_{n-1} was *almost* but not quite F_n? < 1347969940 283044 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :...no. < 1347970007 477847 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could say that a couple of while loops had their tests reversed. < 1347970063 413728 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :which caused things not to happen at the right time, and it _looked_ like it essentially started turning into a fork bomb. < 1347970109 451339 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arc_Koen: i had four cars by the time i decided something had to be wrong :P < 1347970157 172580 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1347970163 615186 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I guess I should've added comments < 1347970189 279161 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :left column is supposed to be the "smaller" number, and right column is the bigger < 1347970207 500434 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :left column is added to a clone of right column, then destroyed < 1347970228 10803 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then the clone becomes the new right column, and the original right column becomes the left column < 1347970231 588957 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i did figure it out eventually, i realized it made little sense for a loop to the left that only ever went at most once around < 1347970247 316817 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :things is I had started doing the opposite - right column added to left column < 1347970268 720480 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I changed so that the smaller one got added, because then it's more efficient < 1347970276 13221 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1347970276 140638 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(since it takes less time to add a smaller number) < 1347970404 67450 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I were to implement it I guess I would allow function names to use the separator as a third letter, cause two-letter names don't mean much < 1347970437 772344 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :two letters should be enough for everyone! < 1347970563 652647 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :One letter seems to be generally speaking enough for mathematicians, so two sounds like plenty. < 1347970567 459966 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(What language is this?) < 1347970574 685195 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maze < 1347971109 827206 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well when I program in ocaml, most variables are only one letter < 1347971116 235676 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but those are the "small" variables < 1347971148 204151 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :variables that get used a lot (because they are global, or whatever) I give meaningful names < 1347971203 780083 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: the option I forgot about in the talk page, in case of multiple choices: make the car continue straight < 1347971239 297831 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, as long as it can go straight, it goes straight < 1347971259 198453 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :only if an instruction tells it to turn, of if there is a wall ahead, will it try the other ways < 1347971282 345572 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in this case if there is a T intersection, with turn right and turn left available but not go straight, then it's still blocked < 1347971331 51072 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1347971382 926792 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if the car is forced into a wall by a direction or a splitter, I guess it would either result in an error, or the car would actually driver over the wall < 1347971413 122847 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the purpose of walls is to guide the car when it has no directions, so I guess they shouldn't matter when the car actually has a direction < 1347971452 395603 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1347971478 13395 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i don't think a car should actually _get_ through the wall. < 1347971532 514768 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I guess it would result in an error at the next tick, when the car tries to execute the instruction it is currently on < 1347971558 209863 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or it would destroy the car, but in this case holes are kind of pointless < 1347972356 404761 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1347972540 871768 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Purely going on movie physics, it sounds like the car should explode. < 1347972926 362894 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :when I was little I had this video game where you could destroy a wall, stand where it used to be, save the game, shut it off, then on again, and the wall would be back there... with you on top of it < 1347972977 338426 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then the wall basically acted as an empty cell as long as you were standing on it (that is, once you get off it, you can't get on again) < 1347973035 870710 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(so, you can't walk into a wall, but you're allowed to "already" be on it < 1347973101 598363 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think we had a law like that in france... underages were allowed to smoke, but not to buy cigarettes < 1347973303 306442 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1347973375 472692 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's possible that our current law re alcohol is similar. It's illegal to sell or give the stuff to minors, but I don't think it's illegal for them to actually possess or drink it. (Could be wrong here.) < 1347973509 16964 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :may be the same here - though I guess the policy when minors are caught drinking is "call the parents" < 1347973707 897787 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, seems that possession and transportation is also illegal for them. < 1347973714 383890 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'm sure there's something else that's similar. < 1347973769 591494 :ztirf!~ztirf@HSI-KBW-078-043-031-070.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1347973874 268006 :yiyus!~124271242@je.je.je QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1347973884 360621 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arc_Koen: yeah i prefer that sort of coding < 1347973933 253116 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also I sort of thought that our age limit for "strong" (> 22 vol%) drinks was 21, but seems that it's 20. < 1347973933 271602 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it works well with functional programming, I guess < 1347973968 275702 :mtve!~mtve@10130.x.rootbsd.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1347973994 258958 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think its a better game in fjidjiojeiojdewiojdiewjdiwejdiwejdiwjio why does my mom have to check up on me and leave my door ajar then wash her hands loudly < 1347974100 880878 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1347974109 263132 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :dammit nvg's python version is too old to run jolvering >_< < 1347974122 301936 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*jolverine < 1347974135 454703 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1347974144 16625 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :half-life 3: the anxiety transferance gun < 1347974218 762556 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :gabe newell is a cyborg at this point < 1347974263 256677 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: LAter < 1347974970 703792 :cuttlefish!~cuttlefis@2607:fad8:4:0:f2de:f1ff:fe6c:6765 JOIN :#esoteric < 1347975276 586208 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1347976716 205939 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1347981346 240269 :yiyus!1242712427@je.je.je JOIN :#esoteric < 1347982346 223788 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-148-11-100.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1347982454 239516 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-148-11-100.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Today I thought of a brilliant way to obfuscate haskell < 1347982466 140535 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-148-11-100.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rebindable Syntax, Overloaded Strings < 1347982488 710574 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-148-11-100.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fromInteger _ a _ = a; fromRational _ x y z = x z (y z); fromString _ = unsafeCoerce < 1347982588 887978 :carado!~user4539@2a01:e35:2e3d:3ef0:6ef0:49ff:fe73:1fd0 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1347982607 23991 :carado!~user4539@2a01:e35:2e3d:3ef0:6ef0:49ff:fe73:1fd0 JOIN :#esoteric < 1347982733 17931 :carado_!~user4539@2a01:e35:2e3d:3ef0:6ef0:49ff:fe73:1fd0 JOIN :#esoteric < 1347982738 827663 :carado_!~user4539@2a01:e35:2e3d:3ef0:6ef0:49ff:fe73:1fd0 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1347982861 700163 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-148-11-100.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This lets you do crazy things < 1347982869 787990 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-148-11-100.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Including computationally everything < 1347982885 492807 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-148-11-100.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think fromString _ = fix also works < 1347983151 588177 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-148-11-100.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then with 0, 0.0, and "0", you can do ANYTHING < 1347983168 518692 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-148-11-100.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except IO < 1347983172 360840 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-148-11-100.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And some other things < 1347983555 864113 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-148-11-100.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOW TO ABUSE THIS AND MAKE #haskell PANIC < 1347984110 932321 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-148-11-100.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But what... < 1347984113 931059 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-148-11-100.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1347984171 261186 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-148-11-100.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ackermann function? < 1347984198 683726 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-148-11-100.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Collatz sequence? < 1347984784 701911 :carado!~user4539@2a01:e35:2e3d:3ef0:6ef0:49ff:fe73:1fd0 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1347984815 999255 :carado!~user4539@2a01:e35:2e3d:3ef0:6ef0:49ff:fe73:1fd0 JOIN :#esoteric < 1347985113 824095 :carado!~user4539@2a01:e35:2e3d:3ef0:6ef0:49ff:fe73:1fd0 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1347985115 892514 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl QUIT :Read error: No route to host < 1347985127 200726 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1347985145 618986 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-148-11-100.as13285.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1347985513 691301 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1347985666 280972 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1347986074 947156 :atriq!~Taneb@host-84-13-74-252.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1347986217 25625 :carado!~user4539@2a01:e35:2e3d:3ef0:6ef0:49ff:fe73:1fd0 JOIN :#esoteric < 1347986984 484293 :carado!~user4539@2a01:e35:2e3d:3ef0:6ef0:49ff:fe73:1fd0 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1347987526 951842 :carado!~user4539@2a01:e35:2e3d:3ef0:6ef0:49ff:fe73:1fd0 JOIN :#esoteric < 1347988006 748047 :carado!~user4539@2a01:e35:2e3d:3ef0:6ef0:49ff:fe73:1fd0 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1347988406 28913 :NihilistDandy!~ND@65-183-140-119-dhcp.burlingtontelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1347989912 963175 :augur!~augur@129-2-129-34.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1347989983 105608 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :atriq: wow < 1347989994 152283 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are a maniac < 1347989997 155175 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i tip my hat to you < 1347990077 265293 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :atriq: sweet < 1347990118 202815 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, how does something like 0"0" lex in haskell? you might not need any whitespace even < 1347990225 802956 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :you probably need parens for grouping though < 1347990397 155876 :nortti!nortti@dsl-hkibrasgw3-ff25c000-52.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :do anyone of you happen to have xorg shape extension header file? < 1347990432 982634 :nortti!nortti@dsl-hkibrasgw3-ff25c000-52.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :my system doesn't seem to have it < 1347990519 212611 :nortti!nortti@dsl-hkibrasgw3-ff25c000-52.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and X11/extensions/XTest.h < 1347990560 544957 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have /usr/include/X11/extensions/XTest.h < 1347990603 255420 :NihilistDandy!~ND@65-183-140-119-dhcp.burlingtontelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :As do I < 1347990649 682089 :nortti!nortti@dsl-hkibrasgw3-ff25c000-52.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :can those be downloaded separately from somewhere? < 1347990683 332679 :atriq!~Taneb@host-84-13-74-252.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, you don't need a space < 1347990690 364907 :nortti!nortti@dsl-hkibrasgw3-ff25c000-52.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I'm not going to compile xorg on this macgine < 1347990694 185754 :nortti!nortti@dsl-hkibrasgw3-ff25c000-52.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :*machine < 1347990703 463486 :NihilistDandy!~ND@65-183-140-119-dhcp.burlingtontelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://stackoverflow.com/questions/5073040/how-to-find-x11-extensions-xtest-h < 1347990758 13944 :nortti!nortti@dsl-hkibrasgw3-ff25c000-52.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have that package installed < 1347990822 308503 :Lumpio-!~user@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :matti@konata:~$ pacman -Qo /usr/include/X11/extensions/XTest.h < 1347990822 402360 :Lumpio-!~user@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/include/X11/extensions/XTest.h is owned by libxtst 1.2.1-1 < 1347990826 474289 :Lumpio-!~user@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you should install Arch < 1347990857 570440 :nortti!nortti@dsl-hkibrasgw3-ff25c000-52.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :if my computer had enough ram to boot the installer :/ < 1347990875 928095 :Lumpio-!~user@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no installer < 1347990912 722764 :Lumpio-!~user@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :But if your computer can't run the live environment, you should consider buying a new one. < 1347990933 90061 :nortti!nortti@dsl-hkibrasgw3-ff25c000-52.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1347990940 507038 :nortti!nortti@dsl-hkibrasgw3-ff25c000-52.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it runs slitaz fast ennough < 1347990960 852661 :nortti!nortti@dsl-hkibrasgw3-ff25c000-52.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well slitaz without x11 and much of busybox replaced with toybox but still < 1347991060 461468 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Quit: Arc_Koen < 1347991077 398069 :Lumpio-!~user@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you actually /do/ with such a computer < 1347991128 380847 :nortti!nortti@dsl-hkibrasgw3-ff25c000-52.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I program, irc, surf web, listen to music, play video, play touhou, tweak < 1347991151 853066 :nortti!nortti@dsl-hkibrasgw3-ff25c000-52.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and of course try to squeeze last bit of performance out of it < 1347991160 556847 :Lumpio-!~user@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wiat < 1347991175 826880 :Lumpio-!~user@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :You play touhou on a computer that can't even run X11? < 1347991182 423356 :Lumpio-!~user@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or were you just talking about running everything off RAM < 1347991190 859882 :nortti!nortti@dsl-hkibrasgw3-ff25c000-52.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can run x11 < 1347991206 624953 :nortti!nortti@dsl-hkibrasgw3-ff25c000-52.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just usually don't do it as it slows down the computer < 1347991236 637872 :nortti!nortti@dsl-hkibrasgw3-ff25c000-52.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I only play pc98 touhous. I like those more compared to windows touhous < 1347991261 585125 :nortti!nortti@dsl-hkibrasgw3-ff25c000-52.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :also if my computer can't run x11 why would I need the header files for x11? < 1347991262 932604 :Lumpio-!~user@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :...I bet you don't like them just because they need more RAM < 1347991294 270233 :Lumpio-!~user@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno, for all I know you might have a dumb terminal to act as the server or whatnot < 1347991300 570 :Lumpio-!~user@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't be surprised if you did! < 1347991317 284157 :nortti!nortti@dsl-hkibrasgw3-ff25c000-52.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. I liked pc98 touhous more even when I had computer with enough ram to play them smoothly without any kind of hacks < 1347991339 447227 :Lumpio-!~user@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :What did you do to your computer!? < 1347991391 584822 :nortti!nortti@dsl-hkibrasgw3-ff25c000-52.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing. the hd controller just broke < 1347991503 213501 :nortti!nortti@dsl-hkibrasgw3-ff25c000-52.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and this is upgrade to the machine I used before this but after my ibook g4 broke < 1347991513 997282 :nortti!nortti@dsl-hkibrasgw3-ff25c000-52.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it had 100MHz P1 and 40MB of RAM < 1347991523 714770 :nortti!nortti@dsl-hkibrasgw3-ff25c000-52.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I ran DSL on it < 1347991607 388241 :nortti!nortti@dsl-hkibrasgw3-ff25c000-52.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :worked pretty well but I wouldn't switch back to it unless I had < 1347991621 13092 :nortti!nortti@dsl-hkibrasgw3-ff25c000-52.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :video playback was terribly slow < 1347991741 83396 :nortti!nortti@dsl-hkibrasgw3-ff25c000-52.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. almost forgot. I also run two instances of my ircbot and my web server on backgtound < 1347991790 776685 :Lumpio-!~user@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :My crappy cell phone from ten years ago probably had more megahertz and megabytes than that < 1347991807 825012 :nortti!nortti@dsl-hkibrasgw3-ff25c000-52.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so < 1347991818 725331 :nortti!nortti@dsl-hkibrasgw3-ff25c000-52.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :nokia 9300 has same amount of ram < 1347991821 36304 :Lumpio-!~user@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, yours has more memory I think. < 1347991842 187547 :Lumpio-!~user@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the venerable N-GAGE ran at 104MHz < 1347991859 568995 :nortti!nortti@dsl-hkibrasgw3-ff25c000-52.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and something like iphone 3g has same amount of meghertz < 1347991883 228539 :nortti!nortti@dsl-hkibrasgw3-ff25c000-52.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh you were talking about that P1 computer and not my main computer < 1347991892 982320 :Lumpio-!~user@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yes < 1347991902 674211 :Lumpio-!~user@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the specs on your main computer then < 1347991914 483364 :nortti!nortti@dsl-hkibrasgw3-ff25c000-52.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :700MHz P3, 64 RAM < 1347991922 317979 :Lumpio-!~user@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that can't run Arch's live environment? < 1347991974 732973 :nortti!nortti@dsl-hkibrasgw3-ff25c000-52.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :almost every distro requires at least 128MB nowadays < 1347992039 631463 :Lumpio-!~user@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno if the wiki's up to date but it says 64MB minimum on one page. < 1347992069 644814 :nortti!nortti@dsl-hkibrasgw3-ff25c000-52.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well arch cd ran out of memory when it was starting up x11 < 1347992079 238047 :Lumpio-!~user@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :So don't start X11 < 1347992093 771947 :nortti!nortti@dsl-hkibrasgw3-ff25c000-52.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it did that automaticaly < 1347992107 672205 :Lumpio-!~user@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf did you download exactly < 1347992131 22716 :Lumpio-!~user@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The main Arch media is just for installation and it boots into a root shell < 1347992131 997965 :Lumpio-!~user@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No X < 1347992136 396423 :nortti!nortti@dsl-hkibrasgw3-ff25c000-52.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1347992140 298822 :nortti!nortti@dsl-hkibrasgw3-ff25c000-52.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1347992149 644190 :Lumpio-!~user@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :There used to be an "installer" but it was character-based < 1347992166 730902 :Lumpio-!~user@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also burning CDs sucks, I prefer USB memory < 1347992185 286492 :nortti!nortti@dsl-hkibrasgw3-ff25c000-52.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well this thing has usb 1.1 and can't boot directly from it < 1347992260 538650 :Lumpio-!~user@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :All the more reason to get a new computer < 1347992262 762782 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slackware 3.4 has a special LOWMEM.TXT for machines that have 4 megabytes or RAM or less. < 1347992264 251900 :Lumpio-!~user@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Optical media is obsolete to me. < 1347992267 83394 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's slightly old, though. < 1347992383 301385 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't recall which computer I had when I was installing that thing. It was either the 486sx/33 with 8M of memory, or the p233mmx with something ridiculous (64M? 256M!? maybe 64M...) of memory. < 1347992486 832298 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti: you can download the -dev .deb and extract it < 1347992760 203009 :Nisstyre-laptop!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre JOIN :#esoteric < 1347992926 79340 :nortti!nortti@dsl-hkibrasgw3-ff25c000-52.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: is 64M ridicilous? < 1347993004 638443 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just recall it felt like some really big number. So maybe it was the 256M. < 1347993006 601350 :nortti!nortti@dsl-hkibrasgw3-ff25c000-52.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lumpio-: can I replace all the gnu just in arch with busybox alternatives? < 1347993007 972496 :Nisstyre-laptop!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre QUIT :Max SendQ exceeded < 1347993017 423804 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or perhaps 128M. < 1347993035 819318 :nortti!nortti@dsl-hkibrasgw3-ff25c000-52.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/just/junk/ < 1347993236 287043 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I just trim down the kernel a bit, I could *totally* have a Linux system for you running in 4 megs of RAM. < 1347993244 660142 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(warning: do *not* run the compiler. Ever.) < 1347993261 628182 :nortti!nortti@dsl-hkibrasgw3-ff25c000-52.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just use the updated linux 0.0.1 from 2008 < 1347993262 47827 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :not even tcc? < 1347993269 863273 :nortti!nortti@dsl-hkibrasgw3-ff25c000-52.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: no < 1347993288 319029 :nortti!nortti@dsl-hkibrasgw3-ff25c000-52.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :does ack work with linux? < 1347993343 210390 :nortti!nortti@dsl-hkibrasgw3-ff25c000-52.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :with ack I refer to ack compiler, not that grep replacement < 1347993372 885357 :nortti!nortti@dsl-hkibrasgw3-ff25c000-52.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it runs nicely on my minix 1.5 box with 2MB of RAM < 1347993383 500083 :nortti!nortti@dsl-hkibrasgw3-ff25c000-52.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :or another option is really old 1.x gcc < 1347993470 827661 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: tcc would work. < 1347993480 737434 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I'm using gcc because tcc won't build Linux. < 1347993515 719943 :nortti!nortti@dsl-hkibrasgw3-ff25c000-52.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't tcc use more than 4MB? < 1347993530 854770 :nortti!nortti@dsl-hkibrasgw3-ff25c000-52.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yes it will. linux 2.4 < 1347993585 538810 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti: That was heavily patched, and I'm using 3.0 anyways. :) < 1347993586 948839 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1347993614 834604 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :alias ld='swapon /dev/fd0;ld' < 1347993615 873249 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, 3.5 < 1347993639 813839 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :put the swap on a network drive or something < 1347993661 4458 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, busybox will run *happily* in a meg of RAM. < 1347993673 272499 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assuming a sane libc, of course. < 1347993686 777340 :nortti!nortti@dsl-hkibrasgw3-ff25c000-52.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :like µClibc or musl? < 1347993690 520694 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1347993699 567285 :nortti!nortti@dsl-hkibrasgw3-ff25c000-52.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :is dietlibc sane? < 1347993736 87431 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really. < 1347993747 230245 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's small, but blatantly non-conformant in several areas. < 1347993748 218995 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: o_o < 1347993753 770509 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i once used swap over NFS < 1347993787 159501 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's also honestly not *that* much smaller than musl. < 1347993795 128279 :nortti!nortti@dsl-hkibrasgw3-ff25c000-52.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: is bionic sane :P < 1347993822 510423 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :musl is ~3 times as much dietlibc, but that's largely because musl offers many functions that dietlibc doesn't. < 1347993837 138090 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and if you don't use those functions, they aren't in your binary when static linked anyways) < 1347993840 342244 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti: Hell no. < 1347993875 19084 :nortti!nortti@dsl-hkibrasgw3-ff25c000-52.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can someone break libc so badly < 1347993937 541293 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ach du libc < 1347993953 772880 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :@google libgreat < 1347993955 480549 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/lispmeister/libgreat < 1347993971 384872 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :bionic isn't really supposed to be a libc right < 1347993991 128278 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is a userspace library to help in the writing of dalvik and other android system stuff < 1347993996 110572 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which bears some resemblence to a libc < 1347994011 690127 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think bionic is the libc used by ndk/jni code on android < 1347994035 707497 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but ndk code is supposed to be mostly computation and not system stuff < 1347994043 868780 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think they advertise it as a full POSIX / C compliant environment < 1347994045 291455 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shrug < 1347994077 906675 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, does anyone advertise as that? < 1347994084 117200 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :(except microsoft) < 1347994088 751554 :nortti!nortti@dsl-hkibrasgw3-ff25c000-52.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :apple does < 1347994105 114200 :nortti!nortti@dsl-hkibrasgw3-ff25c000-52.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :the mac os x I mean < 1347994176 995050 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: It's not a full POSIX / C environment, but there's no real reason it shouldn't be, if not strictly compliant, at least close... < 1347994182 868022 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is Linux not POSIX compliant? I'm vaguely aware it's not certified as such, or something < 1347994194 943150 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Except that Google only cares about having enough of a libc that Dalvik runs. < 1347994209 453248 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :POSIX isn't completely linux compliant < 1347994214 567959 :nortti!nortti@dsl-hkibrasgw3-ff25c000-52.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: wikipedia says it isn't < 1347994221 294534 :nortti!nortti@dsl-hkibrasgw3-ff25c000-52.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but minix 2 is < 1347994223 110482 :nortti!nortti@dsl-hkibrasgw3-ff25c000-52.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1347994237 668831 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :... And they have a strict no-GPL-in-userspace policy, making use of extant Linux libcs a fucking pain. < 1347994258 140631 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, now that musl's MIT licensed they could use that, but that wasn't an option way-back-when, and switching libcs is still a damned pain.) < 1347994274 598100 :nortti!nortti@dsl-hkibrasgw3-ff25c000-52.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1347994280 885053 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no-GPL-in-usespace? what? < 1347994283 779385 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*userspace < 1347994287 90778 :nortti!nortti@dsl-hkibrasgw3-ff25c000-52.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :also same for busybox < 1347994298 541117 :nortti!nortti@dsl-hkibrasgw3-ff25c000-52.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they have their broken toolbox < 1347994302 675948 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Linux itself cannot be POSIX compliant, but I'm pretty sure it supports enough functionality that a POSIX environment could be had reasonably. < 1347994320 923437 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I *think* musl might actually be, if you assume a set of POSIX utils? < 1347994336 25753 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heck, I think glibc might be POSIX compliant modulo weird-ass edge cases. < 1347994391 689543 :nortti!nortti@dsl-hkibrasgw3-ff25c000-52.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it is because gnu dd automaticaly assumes 1024b block size instead of 512b < 1347994414 740295 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :POSIX_ME_HARDER < 1347994417 579587 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Oh, wait, getopt. < 1347994434 624789 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You need to force some environment flags down glibc's throat for getopt to conform. < 1347994450 108811 :nortti!nortti@dsl-hkibrasgw3-ff25c000-52.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah. getopt < 1347994455 510832 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :POSIXLY_CORRECT does some of the things. < 1347994460 847400 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's probably other similar breakage. < 1347994478 431122 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'd bet solidly on there being bugs in pthreads. < 1347994478 619641 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like enables the 512-byte blocks. < 1347994497 113965 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just because pthreads are somewhat complex, and more so in glibc. < 1347994581 748320 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"somewhat" < 1347994602 823281 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :musl pthreads are a mere 10k. :) < 1347994682 864002 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://git.musl-libc.org/cgi-bin/cgit.cgi?url=musl/tree/src/thread/sem_open.c being the most complex chunk of source in it. < 1347994703 347023 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't be surprised if someone, somewhere had run the (freely available) PCTS on some of these things, though. (At least some old versions are freely-freely available. VSX-PCTS2003 "is available for no fee to organizations submitting products for certification", which might not quite count.) < 1347994748 719628 :nortti!nortti@dsl-hkibrasgw3-ff25c000-52.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is PCTS? < 1347994760 393843 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :POSIX Conformance Test Suite. < 1347994766 650307 :nortti!nortti@dsl-hkibrasgw3-ff25c000-52.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1347994963 365527 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately, that's only for POSIX 2003... < 1347994981 795453 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :musl doesn't even pretend to conform to old standard versions. < 1347994986 10583 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is POSIX-compliant these days, such that there's a POSIX 2003? < 1347995002 858606 :atriq!~Taneb@host-84-13-74-252.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In 2003, I turned 7. < 1347995006 593475 :atriq!~Taneb@host-84-13-74-252.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No wait < 1347995008 752288 :atriq!~Taneb@host-84-13-74-252.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The other one < 1347995009 302118 :atriq!~Taneb@host-84-13-74-252.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :8 < 1347995010 849091 :atriq!~Taneb@host-84-13-74-252.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No < 1347995012 130854 :atriq!~Taneb@host-84-13-74-252.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :9 < 1347995013 541636 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: POSIX 2008 is the latest version. < 1347995013 560068 :atriq!~Taneb@host-84-13-74-252.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1347995014 817107 :atriq!~Taneb@host-84-13-74-252.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop < 1347995020 723137 :nortti!nortti@dsl-hkibrasgw3-ff25c000-52.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :in 2003 I turned 6 < 1347995035 452176 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, are there any POSIX 2008 compliant things out there? Maybe the BSDs? < 1347995098 434844 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Certified as such, I dunno. < 1347995100 315590 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :According to http://get.posixcertified.ieee.org/docs/testsuites.html the only test suites are for 2003. < 1347995112 697819 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually compliant? Quite possibly. < 1347996059 991187 :kinoSi!~kinosi@27-96-32-84.ipq.jp QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1347996086 380184 :kinoSi!~kinosi@27-96-32-84.ipq.jp JOIN :#esoteric < 1347996716 527999 :atriq!~Taneb@host-84-13-74-252.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I swear I've done this before < 1347997150 84782 :atriq!~Taneb@host-84-13-74-252.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have done this many times before... < 1347997174 434602 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :atriq, are you going crazy < 1347997190 536929 :atriq!~Taneb@host-84-13-74-252.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAH YES I AM < 1347997197 978870 :atriq!~Taneb@host-84-13-74-252.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or at least forget to save things < 1347997222 197758 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :brains have autosave < 1347997238 102329 :atriq!~Taneb@host-84-13-74-252.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1347997244 98491 :atriq!~Taneb@host-84-13-74-252.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where can I get one of these brains < 1347997264 172016 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :you ingest them and thus gain their powers < 1347997264 473790 :atriq!~Taneb@host-84-13-74-252.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I'm making a predecessor function in SK calculus < 1347997303 510545 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have integers? < 1347997314 716806 :atriq!~Taneb@host-84-13-74-252.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Church numbers < 1347997326 406074 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, numbered churches < 1347997357 263111 :atriq!~Taneb@host-84-13-74-252.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hexham has too many churches < 1347997364 329653 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What kind of Church numbers? < 1347997382 226497 :atriq!~Taneb@host-84-13-74-252.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :\fx.x, \fx.fx, \fx.f(fx), etc < 1347997442 915976 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What the predecessor of \fx.x? < 1347997450 923977 :atriq!~Taneb@host-84-13-74-252.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :\fx.x < 1347997457 627181 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-( < 1347997508 201339 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you consider that cheating, there's an implementation on the wikipedia page for church numerals < 1347997525 860935 :atriq!~Taneb@host-84-13-74-252.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is not cheating at all < 1347997540 438374 :atriq!~Taneb@host-84-13-74-252.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except that's in the lambda calculus < 1347997551 146843 :atriq!~Taneb@host-84-13-74-252.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not the SK combinator calculus < 1347997558 446925 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :translating that to SK is a trivial exercise < 1347997561 727002 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :atriq: there's an implementation hidden in the unlambda deadfish >:) < 1347997576 808599 :atriq!~Taneb@host-84-13-74-252.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, it's a really tedious exercise < 1347997582 334767 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :somewhere close to the ?d , presumably < 1347997780 692873 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it _might_ be precisely the lines strictly between the lines of the ?d and the ?o, but no guarantee < 1347997837 73946 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm is ``s``s`ks ``s`k`s`ks ``s`k`s`kk i `ki < 1347997858 328535 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :increment again... < 1347997877 326981 :JaBoJa!~kvirc@erq38.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1347998007 342327 :JaBoJa!~kvirc@erq38.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are there any esoteric markup languages? < 1347998055 526749 :atriq!~Taneb@host-84-13-74-252.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :JaBoJa, not as far as I am aware < 1347998060 689426 :atriq!~Taneb@host-84-13-74-252.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome JaBoJa < 1347998082 926554 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :JaBoJa: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) < 1347998106 398009 :atriq!~Taneb@host-84-13-74-252.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried to make one once, didn't get very far < 1347998120 359978 :JaBoJa!~kvirc@erq38.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :What it looked like? < 1347998148 120892 :atriq!~Taneb@host-84-13-74-252.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not much < 1347998161 673955 :atriq!~Taneb@host-84-13-74-252.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically a series of instructions about putting things in boxes < 1347998523 211509 :kenyerlin!~canaima@186.90.217.78 JOIN :#esoteric < 1347998589 397008 :kenyerlin!~canaima@186.90.217.78 PRIVMSG #esoteric :las niñas digan yo < 1347998698 828000 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome kenyerlin < 1347998698 922379 :JaBoJa!~kvirc@erq38.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1347998702 341983 :JaBoJa|2!~kvirc@erq38.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1347998704 84119 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :kenyerlin: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) < 1347998709 95242 :kenyerlin!~canaima@186.90.217.78 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::):-*:-*=-O8-) < 1347998793 912418 :kenyerlin!~canaima@186.90.217.78 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hola como estan < 1347998822 607705 :atriq!~Taneb@host-84-13-74-252.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, that appears to be increment < 1347998856 641149 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, i just finished checking < 1347998882 734554 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :atriq: that means the lines i mentioned, which are in the corresponding spot for ?d, should be decrement < 1347998936 505994 :kenyerlin!~canaima@186.90.217.78 PRIVMSG #esoteric :son de venezuela :) < 1347998940 327214 :atriq!~Taneb@host-84-13-74-252.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks < 1347999294 609669 :JaBoJa!~kvirc@erq38.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1347999297 619910 :JaBoJa|2!~kvirc@erq38.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl QUIT :Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/ < 1347999420 479096 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if I'm allowed to like the Clojure ecosystem, not directly because of its access to Java libraries, but because its access to Java libraries brought other people over, and those people made nice elegant Clojure libraries. < 1347999707 562138 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but you're not allowed to meta-ponder it like that. < 1347999720 490811 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION crawls back under rock < 1347999828 223372 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently, #clojure thinks of me as the annoying monad person. And one person says it's because I complain without actually taking action to fix anything. < 1347999944 354948 :kenyerlin!~canaima@186.90.217.78 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1347999954 719495 :kenyerlin!~canaima@186.90.217.78 JOIN :#esoteric < 1347999999 215118 :kenyerlin!~canaima@186.90.217.78 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nnm < 1348000020 315851 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kenyerlin: no hablo español < 1348000053 745026 :kenyerlin!~canaima@186.90.217.78 PRIVMSG #esoteric :q idioma < 1348000249 559412 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of us speak english here < 1348000264 840692 :kenyerlin!~canaima@186.90.217.78 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D < 1348000446 856860 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure, but I think the majority might actually be non-native English speakers. < 1348000460 848494 :augur!~augur@129-2-129-34.wireless.umd.edu QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1348000463 572093 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1348000476 192028 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :what language do they speak in Hexham? < 1348000488 9592 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hexhammish. Clearly. < 1348000558 790664 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hexham on the exam < 1348000601 311910 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Axeman of Hexham. < 1348000669 631299 :kenyerlin!~canaima@186.90.217.78 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1348000723 142710 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :maximize the hammocks < 1348000728 588198 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1348000773 888127 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Update your links (if you have any) to my computer! My domain name has changed from zzo38computer.cjb.net to zzo38computer.org < 1348000801 630272 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: i used the external links search page to fix some more on the wiki < 1348000821 275405 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Somehow it looks immediately more professional when it has a top-level name right after it. < 1348000854 704106 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: OK, thanks. I tried to use that < 1348000866 849769 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note this includes all protocols. < 1348001400 122375 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Good night, maybe < 1348001611 512616 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: There're slides/videos for nominolo's GHC JIT thing, it looks like. < 1348001934 529641 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1348002248 896007 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1348002357 665012 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1348002367 738946 :atriq!~Taneb@host-84-13-74-252.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey < 1348002483 269287 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1348002502 675604 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1348002656 439459 :atriq!~Taneb@host-84-13-74-252.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1348002663 521397 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, Slashdot's owners have just been bought out < 1348002719 937327 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :sourceforge's too < 1348002822 261388 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're the same owners :) < 1348002828 944549 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep < 1348002841 481054 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but Slashdot is still vaguely relevant, whereas Sourceforge isn't really < 1348003133 150839 :sirdancealot7!~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1348003207 315105 :sirdancealot7!~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz JOIN :#esoteric < 1348003922 57846 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Hey now, I just got a new "project of the month is this and that" email from them. < 1348005438 304418 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1348005604 710561 :itidus20!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1348005844 917761 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1348006475 517775 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1348007014 313867 :NihilistDandy!~ND@65-183-140-119-dhcp.burlingtontelecom.net QUIT :Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"] < 1348007861 422462 :pumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1348008224 823923 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net QUIT :Quit: Poulet! < 1348008229 364167 :cuttlefish!~cuttlefis@2607:fad8:4:0:f2de:f1ff:fe6c:6765 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1348008704 944592 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1348009765 310627 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1348010862 605769 :pumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin NICK :copumpkin < 1348012097 75503 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :Quit: Goodnight < 1348012298 208505 :itidus20!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au NICK :itidus21 < 1348012306 11387 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :buhh < 1348012406 497938 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 JOIN :#esoteric