←2012-09-21 2012-09-22 2012-09-23→ ↑2012 ↑all
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00:14:16 <Sgeo> I'm not sure if Clojure's community is a good thing or a bad thing
00:14:25 <Sgeo> On the one hand, lots of libraries, many of them good
00:14:30 <Sgeo> On the other hand, so many idiots
00:15:05 <kmc> zzo38: put a weak pull-up resistor on the bus, and require that any connected device drives the bus low when idle
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00:58:14 <Arc_Koen> hi
01:06:10 <zzo38> kmc: OK, well, I suppose it could be used on one pin to specify whether or not a program can be loaded from the device.
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01:13:18 <kmc> yeah, if you have a dedicated pin then the cartridge can just short that pin to ground
01:14:13 <Lumpio-> Just do a standard protocol like USB
01:19:14 <zzo38> It isn't USB. It is a memory address/data bus, and a few other things such as clock, audio, and some general purpose I/O.
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01:41:32 <Arc_Koen> I'm having a bit of a doubt
01:42:47 <Arc_Koen> Turing machines do not have a finite number of possible states, right?
01:43:19 <Arc_Koen> otherwise all programs would be known to halt because they would necessarily either stop or be periodic
01:43:39 <Arc_Koen> uh, I mean, they wouldn't necessarily halt but the halting problem would be solved
01:43:54 <kmc> the "head" of the machine has a finite set of states
01:44:03 <kmc> but the tape can grow without bound
01:44:07 <Arc_Koen> yep
01:44:27 <Arc_Koen> so a language which doesn't have this infinity possibility, that's what we call a finite-state automaton?
01:44:56 <kmc> there are non-infinite machines other than finite state automata
01:45:10 <kmc> for example, the pushdown automaton is intermediate in power between a finite state machine and a turing machine
01:45:10 <Arc_Koen> oh, ok
01:45:28 <kmc> also be careful, the word "language" in computability theory does not mean the same as "programming language"
01:45:36 <kmc> in computability a language is just a set of strings
01:45:45 <kmc> we don't assign meaning to the strings; we just ask whether they're in the set or not
01:46:54 <Arc_Koen> right
01:47:05 <Arc_Koen> so "programming language" you call "machine"?
01:47:17 <kmc> maybe
01:47:20 <Arc_Koen> I mean intuitively I'd say the "machine" is a particular program
01:47:25 <kmc> yeah
01:47:35 <Arc_Koen> so the programming language would be "the set of all machines"
01:47:39 <kmc> languages are types of machines, then
01:47:44 <Arc_Koen> yes
01:47:46 <kmc> but for turing machines there is a universal machine
01:48:01 <kmc> any turing machine can be emulated by passing some initial state to the universal machine
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01:48:16 <Arc_Koen> right
01:48:40 <Arc_Koen> and of course "initial state" can be seen as an input, so basically a unversal turing machine is an interpreter?
01:48:44 <kmc> yeah
01:49:13 <kmc> when you're viewing turing machines as functions, the input is the initial state of the tape
01:50:07 <Arc_Koen> ok
01:50:23 <Arc_Koen> so I looked up what exactly a push-down automaton was - it's just a turing machine hooked to a stack
01:50:31 <Arc_Koen> except with a finite tape
01:50:36 <Arc_Koen> but the stack can be infinite
01:51:12 <Arc_Koen> yet that's not enough to be as powerful as a turing machine?
01:53:14 <kmc> no, it's not a turing machine hooked up to a stack
01:53:20 <kmc> it's a finite state machine hooked up to a stack
01:53:36 <kmc> fsm: (state, input character) -> state
01:54:15 <kmc> pda: (state, input character, top of stack) -> (state, thing to push or not)
01:54:25 <JaBoJa> Is it logically determined for every UTM program if it halts or not? Or does there exist programs with stop problem unsolvable like continuum problem.
01:54:47 <kmc> turing machine: (state, character under head) -> (state, new character under head, direction to move on tape)
01:55:35 <kmc> a turing machine with finite tape is equivalent to a finite automaton
01:56:04 <kmc> just like a turing machine with n independent state variables is equivalent to a turing machine with one state variable
01:56:30 <Arc_Koen> right
01:56:35 <kmc> the only requirement is that the set of states is finite
01:56:51 <Arc_Koen> but the input character can be taken from an infinite alphabet?
01:56:52 <kmc> so you can use finite-length tuples over finite sets of states
01:56:53 <kmc> no
01:57:07 <Arc_Koen> so input is bounded
01:57:35 <kmc> yeah
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01:58:38 <shachaf> @where sneaky
01:58:38 <lambdabot> dropFromEnd n xs = zipWith const xs (drop n xs)
01:58:47 <shachaf> ☝ best function
02:00:46 <kmc> Arc_Koen: there is a wrinkle in what i said though
02:01:02 <kmc> a deterministic finite state machine is defined by a function (state, input character) -> state
02:01:31 <kmc> but a nondeterministic finite state machine has a set of "possible" new states
02:01:41 <Arc_Koen> yup
02:01:53 <kmc> it turns out that, if some language is recognized by a NFA, you can make a DFA to recognize it
02:01:56 <kmc> (and vice versa)
02:01:59 <kmc> but this is not true for pushdown automata
02:02:09 <kmc> nondeterministic pushdown automata are strictly more powerful than deterministic ones
02:02:31 <kmc> but it is true for turing machines
02:02:43 <Arc_Koen> that's what the wikipedia page said, but they explained why in one sentence and it was grammatically incorrect and not really helping
02:02:54 <kmc> (until you start talking about the execution time rather than just what's possible or impossible)
02:03:09 <kmc> which thing did wikipedia try to explain?
02:03:29 <Arc_Koen> why you couldn't turn a nondeterministic pushdown automaton into a deterministic one
02:03:43 <kmc> yeah, i don't remember offhand
02:04:04 <Arc_Koen> Unlike finite-state machines, there exists no general alogorithm of turning a NDPDA into an equivalent DPDA, because that the problem of determining whether a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Context-free_language is deterministic is decidable, which is not.[1]
02:04:26 <Arc_Koen> (please excuse the weird way my irc client copies links)
02:07:47 <kmc> finding a proof of this is surprisigly hard
02:07:50 <kmc> or maybe i just suck at googling it
02:07:52 <kmc> http://cstheory.stackexchange.com/questions/9673/why-is-non-determinism-push-down-automata-necessary
02:13:04 <Arc_Koen> so in their example they say you have a word as input
02:13:25 <Arc_Koen> you said you had only a character - if the word's length is not bounded, then it's not the same, is it?
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02:27:44 <kmc> a finite state machine or pushdown automaton processes one character at a time
02:28:15 <kmc> the input is a word of finite length, but it can be any finite length, there is no bound to how big the word could be
02:28:22 <kmc> (of course you can make a machine which rejects all words bigger than n)
02:28:41 <Arc_Koen> hmmm but does it have to process the next character at every tick?
02:28:52 <kmc> a deterministic automaton yes
02:29:40 <kmc> in some presentations, a nondeterministic automaton can have "ε transitions" which move from one state to another without consuming a character
02:29:51 <kmc> but this is a just notational convenience
02:30:27 <kmc> because you could just add everything reachable from ε transitions to the set of possible next states
02:30:56 <kmc> a good book on this stuff is _Introduction to the Theory of Computation_ by Sipser
02:31:16 <kmc> it presents everything in order using consistent notation etc
02:31:30 <kmc> much nicer than reading a bunch of wikipedia pages
02:31:44 <Arc_Koen> haha
02:31:57 <Arc_Koen> yep I definitely should read books
02:34:47 <Arc_Koen> hmmmm
02:35:03 <Arc_Koen> but still, if there are an infinity of possible words
02:35:51 <Arc_Koen> oh, right, you said the epsilon thing was only for nondeterministic automatons
02:38:01 <kmc> actually i'm not sure the ε transitions can be removed from a NPDA
02:38:16 <kmc> you can use them to push or pop more than one stack character per input character
02:38:56 <Arc_Koen> on a dpa with a finite number of states I'm pretty convinced it cannot be removed
02:39:12 <kmc> the set of states is always finite
02:39:19 <Arc_Koen> right
02:39:35 <kmc> i mean it's not impossible to talk about infinite number of states
02:39:40 <kmc> but it's not what people usually talk about
02:39:44 <Arc_Koen> so where exactly does the "finite-state automaton" name come from?
02:39:58 <kmc> there are a finite number of states
02:40:06 <kmc> i.e. a finite amount of state
02:41:38 <Arc_Koen> ok so that "finite" means it really is finite, opposite to a turing machine which tape can be in an infinite amount of states
02:42:16 <kmc> yeah
02:42:51 <kmc> a pushdown automaton also has an infinite number of states icluding the stack
02:43:26 <kmc> (when i said "the set of states is always finite" i meant the states not including the stack, i.e. the things typically drawn as nodes in a graph
02:43:29 <kmc> )
02:43:33 <Arc_Koen> I'm thinking they should have bothered to find a different word for the "states" in the automaton and the total "states" the machine can be in
02:43:39 <kmc> yeah exactly
02:48:23 <zzo38> If you lose a game of Double Fanucci against a dragon, you will die, isn't it? However, I lost against a half-dragon, so I only lost five perica instead.
02:49:37 <Arc_Koen> a half-dragon? I thought we called them lizards
02:51:09 <zzo38> This is different half dragon though.
02:51:23 <Arc_Koen> besides, i'm guessing half-dragons are less powerful than whole dragons, so losing against a half-dragon should be more severely punished
02:52:47 <Arc_Koen> (as in, losing against a half-dragon implies you would have lost against a whole dragon as well)
02:53:38 <zzo38> I don't think it would imply; it depend how the cards are dealt.
02:54:44 <zzo38> As well as on how good you are at the game.
02:55:37 <Arc_Koen> well except if it's a game of chance, and you're considering that the winner will bully the loser, in which case yeah I guess being bullied by a whole dragon is more scary
02:56:24 <Arc_Koen> wait, are you playing Zork?
02:56:26 <zzo38> It is a card game, so there would be chance involved, but skill is also involved
02:56:48 <zzo38> No, it is not Zork. It is what I wrote in my character background story for Dungeons&Dragons.
02:57:19 <itidus21> zzo38: i have been thinking that some of those x-bit sports you have been playing could be played without a computer by a few people around a table
02:57:34 <itidus21> but i dont want to interrupt right now
02:58:26 <zzo38> itidus21: Play by cards?
02:59:01 <itidus21> like the boxing and the basketball
02:59:55 <itidus21> i was thinking more of having a GM
03:00:34 <Arc_Koen> (zzo38: my point was that, if you're playing, say, a go tournament (or chess tournament, or any other game) and every game you play affects your ranking, then loosing against a "strong" opponent will make you loose less ranking points than losing against a "weak" player)
03:00:41 <zzo38> Sure you could, but I would think it would be better by cards
03:01:27 <zzo38> Arc_Koen: OK. But how good you are at these kind of games (chess, cards, go, whatever) is not your physical strength.
03:01:30 <Sgeo> I'm tempted to just stick with Eclipse
03:01:46 <Arc_Koen> zzo38: well, a box tournament then
03:01:52 <zzo38> OK
03:03:12 <Arc_Koen> though yeah, if you can be physically "damaged" during the game then playing against someone too strong might be dangerous - though if the damage is already implied by the fact that you have lost, it could not make a difference
03:04:06 <itidus21> is this like playing chess against a wookie?
03:04:39 <Arc_Koen> also, the way you said "play by cards" just gave me the idea that any card game which doesn't include a pile, but rather have the cards dealt among the players at the beginning, could be played by email
03:05:01 <Arc_Koen> like, you send the card you want to play along with the letter
03:05:01 <itidus21> well not chess.. i don't know what the actual game is called
03:05:21 <zzo38> Arc_Koen: OK, if you prefer that way.
03:05:33 <itidus21> ^Dejarik
03:05:42 <Arc_Koen> itidus21: against a wookie, I think it's less dangerous to loose than to win (in case the wookie is a sore looser)
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03:07:31 <itidus21> i see, a dragon is not like a wookie
03:12:51 <Arc_Koen> less hair, more scales
03:15:16 <Arc_Koen> oh I had an idea for a nondeterministic language today
03:15:31 <Arc_Koen> basically it would be a monopoly-like board game
03:15:56 <Arc_Koen> where all the players are controlled by the computer, with dice being rolled
03:16:20 <Arc_Koen> and the cells on the board, or the cards to be drawn, would affect the memory and trigger some computations
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04:04:39 <dajfsa> erfjoirgejroijg
04:04:42 <dajfsa> werjero
04:04:56 <dajfsa> oioieoiroeiro
04:10:42 <itidus21> `welcome dajfsa
04:10:51 <HackEgo> dajfsa: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
04:16:46 <monqy> hi
04:19:17 <dajfsa> q
04:19:18 <dajfsa> qqq
04:19:21 <dajfsa> q qq q q qq
04:19:22 <dajfsa> itidus21: q?
04:19:26 <kmc> !@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!
04:19:29 <dajfsa> ///////////////
04:21:59 <itidus21> qqqq
04:22:17 <itidus21> q qq q q qq q q q qq
04:26:45 <kmc> :wq
04:27:27 <ion> > (intercalate " " . map (flip (replicate 'q'))) [1..]
04:27:28 <lambdabot> Couldn't match expected type `GHC.Types.Int'
04:27:28 <lambdabot> against inferred type ...
04:27:35 <ion> duh
04:27:38 <ion> > (intercalate " " . map (flip replicate 'q')) [1..]
04:27:40 <lambdabot> "q qq qqq qqqq qqqqq qqqqqq qqqqqqq qqqqqqqq qqqqqqqqq qqqqqqqqqq qqqqqqqqq...
04:28:06 * ion remembers unwords
04:35:57 <Arc_Koen> machine code uses goto? when writing functional programs it's better to have recursive calls be the last thing in a function... I wonder if, on a computer where machine code would use comefroms instead of gotos, it would be better to have recursive calls be the first thing in a function
04:37:24 <Arc_Koen> (that thought was sponsored by the It Is 6 am And I Havent Slept Yet industry)
04:39:50 <kmc> head llac optimization
04:40:50 <kmc> has there been much work on esoteric quantum programming languages
04:41:42 <kmc> there is quantum brainfuck at least
04:41:44 <kmc> of course
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05:52:09 <Arc_Koen> well my interrogations about turing-completeness and input/output were legitimate I think
05:52:49 <Arc_Koen> consider a language which has a function "print" and a function "read" which allow to output and input some stuff
05:53:10 <Arc_Koen> and it also has other functions, and considering those other functions only you manage to prove it turing-complete
05:53:49 <Arc_Koen> then someone asks you to write a program in that language that takes an input n, and outputs fib(n)
05:53:49 <Gregor> Errr
05:54:04 <Arc_Koen> well it may not be possible
05:54:33 <Gregor> And? Claiming that a language is TC does not claim that it is possible to do that.
05:55:44 <Arc_Koen> well, I thought turing-completeness was a way to describe what algorithms the language could implement
05:56:20 <Arc_Koen> and there you have a language you said was tc and yet it cannot do something as simple as giving you fib(n)
05:56:29 <Gregor> It is. Input is not usually considered to be part of algorithms, and even if it is, it's certainly outside the scope of Turing-completeness.
05:56:36 <Gregor> It can give you fib(n)
05:56:46 <Gregor> The question of how you get “n” is different.
05:57:08 <Arc_Koen> how can it give me fib(n)?
05:57:19 <Arc_Koen> it can ran computations, but it has no ways of giving me a result
05:57:32 <Gregor> It doesn't have to.
05:57:38 <Gregor> So long as it's calculated that result, it's done.
05:57:44 <Arc_Koen> that's where I disagree
05:57:53 <Gregor> Your disagreement is irrelevant, you're simply wrong.
05:58:07 <Arc_Koen> whoa that's really interesting talking with you
05:58:20 <Arc_Koen> I have to go sleep anyway, have a nice day
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05:59:01 <Gregor> *shrugs*
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07:06:30 <xroslight> 我能吞下粘土而不伤身体
07:08:29 <Sgeo> How much of a memory hog is Eclipse, exactly?
07:09:01 <xroslight> 不知道
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07:16:53 <xroslight> 这里都是中国人吗?
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07:41:25 <fizzie> `welcome guy_who_maybe_should_speak_English
07:41:36 <HackEgo> guy_who_maybe_should_speak_English: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
07:42:06 <shachaf> thizzie
07:43:47 <fizzie> Floozie.
07:43:53 <fizzie> @wn floozie
07:43:53 <lambdabot> *** "floozie" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)"
07:43:54 <lambdabot> floozie
07:43:54 <lambdabot> n 1: a prostitute who attracts customers by walking the streets
07:43:54 <lambdabot> [syn: {streetwalker}, {street girl}, {hooker}, {hustler},
07:43:54 <lambdabot> {floozy}, {floozie}, {slattern}]
07:43:57 <fizzie> Maybe not that.
07:44:10 <itidus21> i watched this is spinal tap today. it occured to me at some point that the main motivation for programming to be performance art is so that programmer fashion can happen
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12:41:59 <ais523> OK, so if you're looking for a (reasonably sensible) syntax for something that can be a list or tuple or both, what should it be?
12:47:17 <dajfsa> rojoerj
12:47:24 <dajfsa> ,, ,, , , ,
12:47:28 <dajfsa> ais523: ? | ( | ) ? ?
12:47:33 <dajfsa> ```
12:47:39 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ``: not found
12:48:31 <dajfsa> :Q
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13:07:03 <dajfsa> ais523: how about {x,y}
13:07:04 <dajfsa> ais523: or [x,y]
13:07:05 <dajfsa> ais523: or (x,y)
13:07:15 <dajfsa> former is probably my favourite although {} are often overloaded for other purposes
13:07:20 <dajfsa> <x,y> is also an option
13:07:26 <dajfsa> [x,y] i find ugly for tuples, (x,y) i find ugly for lists
13:07:38 <dajfsa> ais523: however i would question what your distinction between list and tupl eis
13:07:45 <dajfsa> & if such an overloaded literal actually makes sense given that
13:08:01 <dajfsa> qqqqQQqqqQ*$(@(##(@#*(@#*(@#*(@*(*(@((@~)------------oooooooooooooooooooooooooo===>>>>>>$>$>$>$>$
13:09:03 <dajfsa> nice rant by arc_koen in the logs
13:10:59 <dajfsa> zzo38: what is the internet
13:12:55 <zzo38> dajfsa: Internet is the TCP/IP computer network connected by everything.
13:15:49 <FreeFull> +x,y-
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13:20:07 <atriq> @messages?
13:20:07 <lambdabot> Sorry, no messages today.
13:20:10 <atriq> Yay!
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13:29:14 <itidus21> lol. many things in the logs!
13:29:55 <atriq> Such as?
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13:35:58 <zzo38> The Wikipedia article for call/cc describes to access the continuation from outside of call/cc, and I think I have made that work with Haskell too by making up a newtype of it.
13:36:21 <atriq> zzo38, isn't that in Control.Monad.Cont?
13:37:37 <zzo38> atriq: There is Cont and ContT in there, but I mean I could make something like this: newtype C r x = C (C r x -> Cont r x); which I think would be the correct type to return the current continuation from callCC.
13:37:57 <atriq> Hmm
13:38:07 <atriq> I still haven't understood call/cc
13:38:45 <zzo38> Read the Wikipedia it describe. The esolang wiki article for Unlambda also links to some related information.
13:38:55 <itidus21> atriq: such as whales!
13:38:59 <itidus21> `log whale
13:39:34 <HackEgo> No output.
13:39:39 <itidus21> `log whale
13:39:53 <HackEgo> 2011-07-23.txt:00:17:06: <oerjan> very like a whale
13:40:04 <itidus21> `log wales
13:40:16 <HackEgo> 2010-12-26.txt:05:18:39: <Quadrescence> rms doesn't quite give the same air as jimbo wales
13:40:29 <itidus21> `log wails
13:40:36 <HackEgo> 2012-09-22.txt:13:40:29: <itidus21> `log wails
13:40:49 <itidus21> `log [w]ails
13:40:56 <HackEgo> 2012-09-22.txt:13:40:29: <itidus21> `log wails
13:41:00 <itidus21> `log [w]ails
13:41:07 <HackEgo> 2012-09-22.txt:13:40:56: <HackEgo> 2012-09-22.txt:13:40:29: <itidus21> `log wails
13:41:13 <itidus21> fine
13:41:31 <itidus21> `log [w]ells
13:41:39 <HackEgo> 2007-11-30.txt:20:08:20: <ihope> Giving the old ones energy would make them temperature wells; creating and destroying particles would make them pressure wells.
13:41:49 <itidus21> `log [w]alls
13:41:57 <HackEgo> 2009-10-15.txt:13:52:21: <ehird> [The walls, of which there aren't any, melt.]
13:42:05 <itidus21> `log [w]ills
13:42:11 <HackEgo> 2012-04-20.txt:02:44:02: <elliott> you wills ee
13:42:28 <atriq> In other news, I've finally installed the Haskell Platform correctly on this computer with GHC 7.*
13:48:42 <atriq> Every other time I messed up installing the docs
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14:24:33 <dajfsa> ais523: Welcome to saturday
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15:09:00 <atriq> You know what?
15:09:06 <atriq> I'm going to go and read a book
15:09:09 <atriq> Bye
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16:18:16 <dajfsa> Dog dog dog dog dog dog dog dog dog
16:23:05 <JaBoJa> Cat cat cat cat cat cat cat cat cat
16:24:28 <fizzie> Cat dog cat dog cat dog cat dog cat
16:29:15 <kmc> nice, i made a program that dies with ETOOMANYREFS
16:29:35 <kmc> this errno is only produced in one place in the entire Linux kernel
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16:39:56 <JaBoJa> Where?
16:40:15 <JaBoJa> #!/usr/bin/env cat
16:40:21 <JaBoJa> dog dog dog dog dog dog dog dog
16:40:31 <kmc> dong dong dong dong dong dong dong dong
16:40:55 <JaBoJa> fish fish fish fish fish fish fish fish fish
16:41:10 <kmc> Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo.
16:41:42 <JaBoJa> Triadobatrachus triadobatrachus triadobatrachus triadobatrachus triadobatrachus triadobatrachus triadobatrachus triadobatrachus triadobatrachus
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17:23:05 <atriq> Well, that was fun
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18:17:45 <dajfsa> atriq: Q q q
18:17:56 <atriq> Q q r
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19:06:01 <dajfsa> Deth
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19:06:33 <oerjan> well that was the end of him, then.
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19:39:31 <atriq> Who even is dajfsa
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21:09:43 <kmc> http://www.msr-inria.inria.fr/events-news/feit-thompson-proved-in-coq
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21:17:22 <oerjan> kmc: wow. i think this is actually quite big.
21:18:34 <shachaf> kmc: roconnor was just talking about that at his talk the other day.
21:18:40 <shachaf> He did some of it, I think.
21:20:51 <oerjan> well he's listed in the sidebar of that page...
21:21:43 <oerjan> not directly related though
21:21:52 <oerjan> (afaict)
21:22:03 <shachaf> Galois Connections, Poset-Enriched Categorical Logic, and Type Theory
21:23:37 <oerjan> it seems to me that the larger the proof of a theorem, the more important it is to get it formally verified
21:23:52 <oerjan> although of course the more difficult, too
21:27:12 <ais523> Vorpal: was it you who changed C-INTERCAL to use an actual bool type?
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21:35:43 <Gregor> INTERNET
21:35:46 <Gregor> INTERNET, TELL ME
21:35:49 <Gregor> Should I buy an accordion?
21:36:14 <atriq> Are you able to play the accordion, or are you able to get accordion lessons?
21:36:30 <Gregor> I am able to play the piano and various other instruments, and am not incompetent.
21:36:40 <atriq> Then the answer is hell
21:36:41 <atriq> Freaking
21:36:42 <atriq> Yes
21:36:52 <Gregor> But I'm SO CHEAP.
21:37:04 <atriq> Hey, it was your idea
21:37:17 <atriq> Also, go to anime conventions dressed as an esolang
21:37:25 <oerjan> kmc: thanks for giving me my first r/math post, btw :P
21:37:44 <atriq> (should totally be a thing that happens)
21:37:47 <oerjan> actually, first reddit post whatsoever
21:38:24 <shachaf> Feit-Thompson theorem has been, like, TOTALLY checked in Coq
21:38:55 <atriq> My first reddit post was a Muse/Sweet Bro and Hella Jeff mashup on /r/homestuck/ that received one downvote and no comments
21:40:02 <atriq> :(
21:41:46 <oerjan> atriq: :(
21:42:37 <atriq> 8 notes on Tumblr, though!
21:42:53 <ais523> btw, I like Debian's condensed version of INTERCAL's development history: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/version.cgi?info=1;collapse=1;found=0.29-2;package=intercal
21:43:01 <atriq> When me posting a screenshot of a tweet got 12...
21:43:44 <kmc> hahaha
21:44:33 <shachaf> kmc: I watched some episodes of that television series.
21:44:39 <kmc> which one?
21:44:50 <kmc> Poset-Enriched Categorical Logic: The Television Series?
21:45:14 <shachaf> _Breaking Bad_
21:45:23 <kmc> ah
21:45:31 <kmc> are you watching it from the beginning?
21:45:42 <shachaf> The ones I watched were the first ones.
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22:04:23 <atriq> I think I've just blown someone's mind by playing along with someone else's joke
22:05:13 <oerjan> how evil.
22:05:37 <atriq> We've convinced her that Power Rangers was originally a British series
22:05:40 <atriq> And that it was awful
22:11:18 <kmc> power rangers is actually a spinoff of dr. who
22:12:30 <olsner> power doctors, doctor rangers, ranger who
22:12:39 <kmc> 'For example in Mighty Morphin, alien wizard Zordon recruits "teenagers with attitude" to harness the power of the dinosaurs to overcome the forces of evil space alien Rita Repulsa.'
22:12:50 <kmc> you really cannot make this show sound more awful than it actually is
22:14:31 <shachaf> What, Dr. Who?
22:16:16 <Sgeo> I liked Power Rangers when I was a kid.
22:16:33 <Sgeo> Although I think I did recognize how repetitive it is
22:16:34 <olsner> alien "wizard", recruits teenagers, fights evil space aliens... that's doctor who indeed
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22:18:52 <shachaf> monqy: hi monqy
22:19:02 <monqy> hi
22:28:09 <shachaf> 15:27 <Puffton> If you guys were to explain monads to a newbie, how would you do it?
22:28:28 <shachaf> I should probably leave now. :-(
22:33:05 <oerjan> <shachaf> Badly.
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22:49:28 <segorev> hhhiii
22:49:49 <oerjan> `welcome segorev
22:50:00 <HackEgo> segorev: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
22:50:53 <segorev> hi
22:51:00 <segorev> )
22:51:29 <atriq> We also talk about: maths, Haskell, Homestuck, Dwarf Fortress, Finland, television, Gregor's taste in clothes and accessories...
22:51:41 <segorev> i know)
22:51:45 <shachaf> Hexham
22:51:55 <shachaf> Is Hexham a kind of Finland?
22:52:09 <Gregor> My taste in clothes is AMAZING, TYVM.
22:52:21 <atriq> Hexham's a kind of Dwarf Fortress
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22:52:35 <shachaf> Is television a kind of maths?
22:52:39 <shachaf> I don't even own one.
22:52:42 <atriq> Who knows?
22:53:26 <olsner> can you own kinds of maths?
22:53:28 <Gregor> Television /involves/ math :)
22:53:47 <segorev> Television? TV?)
22:53:57 <olsner> You wouldn't steal a kind of maths!
22:54:17 <segorev> Television and math? Is this stuff compatible?
22:55:02 <benuphoenix> question: if a system wih 12GB of ram costs $1000 and the same system with 16GB costs $1200, is the sstem with more ram worth it?
22:55:23 <benuphoenix> tggggggggghtjuuy0v=
22:55:30 <benuphoenix> oops
22:55:33 <Sgeo> How much would it cost to buy the additional RAM separately?
22:55:43 <benuphoenix> not sure
22:56:06 <benuphoenix> but imd need the unit beforehand
22:56:07 <ion> Is that ECC RAM or something? Because normal DDR3 RAM is *much* cheaper than that.
22:57:06 <oerjan> <benuphoenix> tggggggggghtjuuy0v= <-- what _is_ with the weird words people use today
22:57:35 <benuphoenix> a 4gb ddr3-1333 chip costs?
22:57:55 <ion> 1333? That’s even cheaper than what i was thinking of.
22:58:24 <benuphoenix> is this system bad now that it uses 1333?
22:59:33 <benuphoenix> there's gotta be something else
23:00:07 <benuphoenix> i'm on road. i'll get back to you when i get home
23:00:08 <ion> benuphoenix: In Finland, 16.90 € http://www.verkkokauppa.com/fi/product/15419/cbdjm/Kingston-Valueram-2GB-1333MHz-DDR3-CL9-muistimoduli
23:00:16 <ion> whoops, sorry
23:00:19 <ion> I misread.
23:00:53 <ion> benuphoenix: 19.90 € http://www.verkkokauppa.com/fi/product/4110/dghjq/Kingston-HyperX-blu-4-GB-1600-MHz-DDR3-CL9-muistimoduli
23:01:19 <ion> For some reason, the 4 GiB Valueram 1333 MHz and HyperX 1600 MHz modules have the same price.
23:01:48 <olsner> does byte start with a t in finnish?
23:02:29 <oerjan> tybä
23:03:13 <olsner> gigatavua, apparently
23:04:00 <oerjan> they're not big on b's, come to think of it
23:05:44 <olsner> do they even have it at all?
23:06:00 <ion> olsner: Even though everyone learned that you don’t “translate” international unit symbols, Microsoft™ followed by the Finnish media began changing B to t for some reason.
23:06:20 <kmc> shachaf: television is mostly cardboard and drugs and only a little bit math
23:06:30 <ion> +in school
23:06:52 * shachaf read that as "only a little bit meth"
23:07:00 <kmc> watch more breaking bad
23:07:06 * shachaf blamc
23:09:51 <olsner> "Finnish is written with [an] alphabet that includes the distinct characters Ä and Ö, and also several characters (b, c, f, q, w, x, z and å) reserved for words of non-Finnish origin."
23:12:15 <atriq> wax
23:12:42 <atriq> What's a ridiculous Finnish word that everyone should know?
23:12:55 <ion> Yliesierikoisapulaisvaravaurioraivausvuorovarausratkaisupäällikkö
23:13:00 <shachaf> "suomi"
23:13:03 <shachaf> It means "silly person"
23:13:09 <atriq> ion, what does that mean?
23:14:05 <atriq> Google reckon's it's probably Finnish for something but has no idea what
23:14:27 <olsner> you need to add spaces to help it parse out the words in the word
23:14:41 <ion> Someone on the Intertubes translated it as “chief superior pre-special assistant vice damage-clearing turn reservation solution executive” but i’m not sure that’s 100 % correct.
23:14:59 <ion> (“pre-special”, huh?)
23:15:50 <olsner> but you're the finnish person here, you should know right?
23:16:01 * shachaf is Finnish!
23:16:13 <olsner> shachaf: prove it
23:16:17 <ion> I know what it means in Finnish but i’m not familiar enough with title jargon in English.
23:16:35 <atriq> shachaf, there's about half a dozen finns online at any one time
23:17:30 <ion> Okay, the proper translation for esi- in this case would be fore-, not pre-.
23:17:59 <olsner> fore-special?
23:18:30 <ion> The fore- isn’t really attached to the following word, you’d need to change the word order as well to translate it properly.
23:18:37 <ion> I mean, the esi-
23:18:44 <olsner> yliesi is like over-pre-something?
23:19:16 <oerjan> overformynderiet
23:19:18 <atriq> Hang on
23:19:35 <atriq> Isn't it about half two in the morning in Finland
23:19:38 <atriq> @time ion
23:19:38 <lambdabot> Local time for ion is Sun, 23 Sep 2012 02:19:38 +0300
23:19:51 <atriq> THAT MEANS GOODNIGHT
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23:20:11 <olsner> why did he quit because it is late in finland?
23:20:33 <oerjan> sure, everyone knows hexham is in finland
23:20:38 <ion> Here’s a long single word. The previous one was a compound word. kumarreksituteskenteleentuvaisehkollaismaisekkuudellisenneskenteluttelemattomammuuksissansakaankopahan
23:21:10 <olsner> why is that not compound? is it all suffixes and conjugations?
23:21:31 <ion> yeah
23:22:02 <olsner> looks like it breaks google translate somehow, maybe they have a finnish parser that is actually trying to parse the word
23:23:03 <oerjan> doesn't google translate work purely statistically with no builtin language knowledge?
23:24:15 <olsner> yes, afaik
23:24:51 <olsner> oh well, I took the time to rate this translation "unhelpful"
23:25:50 <Phantom_Hoover> Why does Kerbal Space Program hate me ;_;
23:29:17 <oerjan> Phantom_Hoover: it's probably written in a brainfuck derivative
23:29:30 <Phantom_Hoover> i think it's written in c#
23:29:49 <olsner> there should be a Gerbil Space Program
23:29:57 <Phantom_Hoover> which is in many ways a brainfuck derivative
23:30:03 <oerjan> it's a little known fact
23:30:27 <oerjan> the greatest success of the gluing things to skateboards principle
23:30:36 <olsner> thinking about it, wouldn't gerbils need practically just as big rockets to get into orbit as the human space program?
23:31:39 <oerjan> i thought the size of the rocket would be proportional to the mass of the payload
23:33:01 <olsner> yes, but is the mass of the payload proportional to the size of humans?
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23:34:46 <olsner> oh, apparently the average adult gerbil weighs about 70 g ... they're a lot more smaller than I thought
23:35:21 <oerjan> olsner clearly has been thinking of gerbils as fearsome human-sized monsters
23:37:47 <benuphoenix> which is better: intel h67 chipset or intel b75 chipset?\
23:40:27 <benuphoenix> Sgeo, ion, oerjan? Continuing conversation from before...
23:43:54 * Sgeo has no idea
23:44:23 <Sgeo> I can tell you which language I'm currently mostly interested in: Clojure. This is completely unhelpful for your question, though.
23:45:20 <benuphoenix> oh...h67 is sandy bridge and b75 is ivy bridge
23:45:31 <shachaf> Sgeo: Wait, you're interested in Clojure?!
23:45:32 <benuphoenix> i think i want the ivy, right?
23:47:11 <Sgeo> (dotimes [n 500] (println "Yes, shachaf."))
23:47:22 <benuphoenix> especially with an ivy processor
23:47:22 <olsner> oerjan: yes, something like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephoartigasia_monesi
23:47:26 <shachaf> benuphoenix: You want Haswell, dude.
23:47:35 <Sgeo> shachaf, what's wrong with Clojure?
23:48:02 <shachaf> Sgeo: Nothin'
23:48:17 <olsner> (no, actually I was just thinking approximately rabbit-sized)
23:50:11 <oerjan> olsner: so not like these, then? http://www.webcomicsnation.com/shaenongarrity/narbonic_plus/series.php?view=archive&chapter=14370
23:55:39 <olsner> assuming the gerbils were also working on this in the '60s, they'd need about a thousand gerbils' weight in computers
23:55:48 <benuphoenix> shachaf: can't wait
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