00:02:14 <Phantom__Hoover> Important lesson of the day: orbital twiddles are best done near the top of eccentric orbits.
00:07:15 <kmc> perhaps bonghits will fix your orbits
00:11:46 <Phantom__Hoover> Good news, though: I did some more calculations and I realised the earlier ones were bullshit!
00:12:18 <Phantom__Hoover> The gerbils can totally get off the beach if I turn the high-thrust engine back on.
00:15:14 <oerjan> it's a small step for a gerbil
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00:25:20 <Phantom__Hoover> With a gravity assist from Laythe I can go from 70 million kilometres from the sun to 600,000.
00:28:56 <zzo38> Are you trying to go to the sun???
00:32:57 <zzo38> What are you trying to go?
00:35:01 <Phantom__Hoover> After a convenient gravity assist I'm on a pretty reasonable orbit now.
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01:14:53 <kmc> i tried to fnord the river and my fuckin' oxen died
01:16:04 <kmc> finger nuckin good
01:17:27 <kmc> KSP uses PhysX
01:17:49 <kmc> i wonder if you can hook it up to a big Tesla box to have ultra accurate orbital calculations
01:18:52 <zzo38> Can you use ephemeris for orbit calculation?
01:19:38 <zzo38> And if you want to go to the moon of a gas giant it is going to be far away, and lack of air, isn't it?
01:29:04 <kmc> there might be air
01:29:08 <kmc> i don't know what kerbals breathe anyway
01:29:43 <kmc> europa has oxygen atmosphere, but not very much of it
01:30:05 <zzo38> Do you need extra oxygen?
01:33:08 <kmc> there is said to be a lot of oxygen in the ocean there
01:35:21 <shachaf> Oxygen is bad for you in large quantities.
01:35:59 <zzo38> A lot of things are poison for you in too large quantities
01:36:43 <pikhq_> shachaf: Really? Isn't straight O2 used in medicine sometimes for breathing?
01:36:58 <shachaf> pikhq_: Who said anything about the 2?
01:37:26 <shachaf> Straight O is pretty dangerous.
01:37:30 <pikhq_> Well, when you say "oxygen" it's generally assumed you are referring to the diatomic gas, not the free ion.
01:37:37 <shachaf> pikhq_: Actually too much O2 is bad for you in some cases.
01:37:37 <pikhq_> Straight O is *incredibly* dangerous, yes.
01:37:46 <shachaf> For example it's a very bad idea to go SCUBA-diving with it.
01:39:08 <kmc> how about Ofast
01:39:18 <kmc> can i breathe funsafe-math
01:39:47 <zzo38> I think it is not air, so probably you cannot breathe funsafe-math.
01:40:15 <shachaf> kmc: So apparently writing GHC patches is really easy.
01:40:17 <kmc> you can breathe some things that are not air
01:40:23 <kmc> such as other mixtures including oxygen
01:40:26 <kmc> also some liquids
01:40:34 <shachaf> Breathing liquids is nifty.
01:40:35 <kmc> shachaf: I've thought about it
01:40:38 <shachaf> I hear it's pretty dangerous, though.
01:41:10 <pikhq_> shachaf: The danger with breathing liquid is that the too-high viscosity can overwork your diaphram.
01:41:43 <kmc> <shachaf> kmc: So apparently writing GHC patches is really easy.
01:41:45 <kmc> <shachaf> I hear it's pretty dangerous, though.
02:03:19 <Phantom__Hoover> <kmc> i wonder if you can hook it up to a big Tesla box to have ultra accurate orbital calculations
02:03:36 <Phantom__Hoover> KSP uses patched conics anyway so the orbital simulations are for all intents and purposes exact.
02:05:58 <kmc> ok fine, accurate non-orbital calculations
02:07:11 <Phantom__Hoover> And Kerbal's atmosphere does contain oxygen, and their jet engines rely on it to work.
02:07:29 <kmc> oh, the jets do, sure
02:07:34 <kmc> but presumably they have rockets that don't
02:07:54 <Phantom__Hoover> I know I was speaking wrt atmospheric composition earlier.
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02:11:08 <kmc> i can't tell what group of people today's xkcd is strawman-mocking
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03:56:34 <Sgeo_> I finally broke into the Cybertown jail
03:58:25 <monqy> doesn't that strike you as a bit backwards
03:58:25 <lambdabot> monqy: You have 8 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them.
04:04:25 <Sgeo_> Non-jailed persons were not allowed to enter the jail
04:04:37 <Sgeo_> I think if you tried, ... not sure what happened. Thrown in jail?
04:17:22 <Sgeo_> At any rate, I think Cybertown is too dead for anyone to actually complain
04:17:33 <Sgeo_> I think they pulled the Jail from existence a number of years ago
04:17:40 <Sgeo_> I was just using a copy that the Internet Archive grabbed
04:17:45 <Sgeo_> <3 IA so much right now
04:36:41 <augur> anyone know of that video of a guy walking out of his car as it gets hit by another car?
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04:39:25 <Sgeo_> Is it someone pulled over by a cop?
04:43:04 <augur> all i remember is this guy just opens the door and walks out of the car as it spins
04:47:01 <Sgeo_> Could try asking on reddit.com/r/tipofmytongue
05:03:03 <oklopol> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYBM8VsxHEg he kind of just opens the door and walks out of the car as it spins
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05:12:19 <augur> oklopol: no this was a real crash
05:12:29 <augur> i dont think the guy was actually IN the car but
05:12:38 <augur> it looked like he was
05:13:56 <oklopol> yeah in that clip, i guess the car didn't even get hit.
05:14:01 <oklopol> also i have to go, good luck
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06:00:47 <itidus21> Sgeo_: you seem to specialize in virtual environments
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06:23:32 <Sgeo_> Aww, Maven doesn't list any VRML utilities
06:33:32 <Sgeo_> monqy, tswett: Boring update.
06:42:57 <kmc> i wonder if JIT spraying is practical on ARM / Thumb or if instruction alignment is too restricted
06:44:16 <kmc> even if you can only jump to intended instructions, some JITs might produce a sequence of instructions where jumping into the middle does something interesting
06:44:49 <kmc> esoteric programming is to exploit development as particle physics is to nuclear weapon design
07:13:16 <augur> kmc: when was the last time someone wrote an exploit based on the developments in the brainfuck world? :|
07:17:57 <kmc> when was the last time someone designed a weapon using neutrinos
07:32:37 <Sgeo_> Can Selenium see what resources are being downloaded for a web page ala Google Chrome's development tools?
07:37:08 * Sgeo_ decides that it makes far more sense to ask in #selenium
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10:56:18 <oerjan> http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/10do93/errors_vs_bugs_and_the_end_of_stupidity/c6cnb8u?context=3
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11:42:58 <itidus21> do i really want to eat a cake just to show that my digestive system is working
11:45:58 <itidus21> i'm not really liking this line: "Lazy" and "stupid" and "bad at ____" are terms about the map, not the territory.
11:46:04 <fizzie> Is there a convetion that, just like ^@, ^A, ..., ^_ map to NUL, SOH, ..., US, then ^`, ^a, ..., ^~ could map to the 0x80, 0x81, ..., 0x9e controls? (Okay, the 0x9f is a bit of an issue, due to 0x7f being what it is.)
11:47:16 <itidus21> the wiki page for map-territory relation starts talking about Jiddu Krishnamurti and Alfred Korzybski
11:48:09 <itidus21> which is only one degree away from theosophists and scientology
11:49:18 <oerjan> itidus21: is it the case that you don't like the line because it conflicts with the beliefs you use to keep up your incompetence self-image?
11:49:36 <oerjan> (just a cynical hunch, here)
11:49:46 <oerjan> (a hypocritical one, too)
11:52:17 <itidus21> well i don't know if alfred korzybski is a good guy or not.. WP says he influenced many people.. william s burroughs who kills and writes about drug addiction, l ron hubbard who boasted that you can get rich by starting a religion, john grinder who started NLP
11:52:32 <itidus21> but on the other hand quite a many great authors
11:53:15 <itidus21> and i actually don't know the details on jiddu
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11:59:22 <itidus21> it just hit a nerve about these things..
12:00:38 <itidus21> maybe george orwell would not approve of celandine13's newspeak
12:06:44 <itidus21> basically, i know those names for all the wrong reasons
12:08:20 <itidus21> i always react to urls... i always regret it
12:08:34 <itidus21> lets not make too much of this
12:08:47 <itidus21> just like sometimes i rant about patents or about windows 8
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12:15:24 <Arc_Koen> isn't it weird that the wiki is esolangs.org but the main page's title is "Esolang, the esoteric programming languages wiki"?
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12:20:25 <fizzie> I don't know if it is weird or not, but I keep forgetting whether I need to put in the plural or not.
12:25:09 <fizzie> http://sprunge.us/ajPL -- "such an illegal act like that should stop"!
12:25:20 <fizzie> This Tunde guy sure keeps repeating him(?)self.
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12:29:09 <Arc_Koen> if a language is known to be at most as powerful as a linear bounded automaton, should I put it in that category, or leave it as "unknown computational class"?
12:30:11 <Arc_Koen> I mean, it is known that every program in that language can be translated into a linear bounded automaton, but whether any linear bounded automaton can be translated into this language is unknown (and likely to be false)
12:30:32 <fizzie> If it's "likely to be false", it perhaps doesn't belong in the category.
12:31:17 <fizzie> At least based on a strict reading of the category description.
12:42:31 <fizzie> The linear-bounded automata category is pretty sparse, and I'm a bit dubious about some of those. 2DP for example sounds more finite-state to me. (At least based on the current logic: "-- because of its fixed playfield and data size." Though I do note there doesn't seem to be a limit on the number of heads made by NEWHD.)
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12:43:54 <itidus21> it's just a raw nerve seeing anything related to that.. im too mentally unstable to explore such topics. it was only a few months ago that i had to explain to police and my doctor that i thought my brother was doing behavior modification to me
12:44:23 <itidus21> it's not intended a well reasoned critique
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12:55:23 <Arc_Koen> fizzie: yes, bitbitjump is also in the linear-bounded automata category, yet it seems to be no more than a bounded storage machine
12:59:35 <fizzie> Arc_Koen: I would've mentioned BitBitJump except I couldn't quite bother figuring out what was going on with it. The examples keep talking about infinite memory.
13:00:00 <Arc_Koen> well, basically each instruction contains a "goto"
13:00:15 <Arc_Koen> and this goto is only 8-bit long
13:00:53 <Arc_Koen> so I don't quite see how we're supposed to access memory with addresses larger than 8-bit
13:07:41 <fizzie> I don't see 8 bits specified anywhere, though.
13:08:22 <fizzie> It does have a fixed word length at the beginning, but then that somehow disappears.
13:09:46 <fizzie> I suppose the reverse-a-string and brainfuck interpreter examples that mention "unlimited memory" just mean the assembly form programs can run with any word size. Maybe.
13:10:14 <fizzie> But that's mostly from interpreting "As in the example above, the interpreter in its assembly form is not bound to the memory limitation of the BitBitJump instruction."
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13:25:21 <itidus21> but after a short while i felt like it was really depressing way to program
13:27:06 <itidus21> thats .. .... ill try to contribute later
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13:33:22 * Sgeo has a brilliant idea
13:33:28 <Sgeo> For a specific use case
13:33:31 <Sgeo> But it's so beautiful
13:33:55 <Sgeo> ...although come to think of it, I'm sure it already exists, but not for the reason I have in mind
13:34:17 <Sgeo> Web service that redirects requests. First trying at one URL, but if it doesn't exist, another one.
13:35:01 <Arc_Koen> "you were trying to find esokangs.org, but since it doesn't exist, let us redirect you to this nice online dating site"
13:37:02 <Sgeo> Not quite what I had in mind
13:37:36 <Sgeo> A fixed list of URLs to serve as roots. Client requests http://myservice.example.com/bla.wrl
13:37:57 <Sgeo> First it tries to find it on the Internet Archive at a specific place, latest time. If that doesn't work, then tries each list of web routes
13:38:08 <Sgeo> Each root on the list
13:42:24 * Sgeo does wonder if it may be better to just physically try to gather the files into one place
13:45:23 <Sgeo> Well, there goes that idea.
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14:09:45 <atriq> Memos are a thing?
14:10:19 <fizzie> I don't think I've ever gotten one. If you mean freenode memoserv.
14:10:49 <Sgeo> I ... have a memo from MemoServ
14:10:58 <fizzie> A thing is certainly what they are.
14:10:59 <atriq> I have one from you?
14:11:19 <atriq> Yes, "yes" is literally what it said
14:11:31 <atriq> Arc_Koen, not rigorously.
14:11:45 <atriq> I wrote it back in the days when I was silly and didn't test things much
14:16:14 <Sgeo> Is it morally acceptable for a server to, upon receiving an HTTP request, itself make some requests before responding?
14:16:21 * Sgeo suddenly realizes that he might not need to
14:16:35 <fizzie> No, proxy servers are immoral.
14:16:36 <Sgeo> Depending on what HTTP supports
14:17:41 <Sgeo> Uh, I guess I should read about HTTP 300 works
14:18:49 <Sgeo> There's no response that says to the client "Try these URLs and use whichever works"?
14:22:50 <Sgeo> Also, liveweb.archive.org doesn't have a coherent robots.txt
14:23:10 <atriq> "If we confuse them, maybe they'll leave us alone!"
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14:40:02 <atriq> With OverloadedSyntax and MonadComprehensions
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14:40:07 <atriq> How do things end up?
14:41:13 <atriq> Not overloaded syntax...
14:41:21 <atriq> I'm mixing two things up
14:46:56 <Sgeo> I have a feeling I won't even need to use Compojure
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15:25:50 <atriq> Forgot to turn off my other computer...
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15:29:08 <atriq> Is there a way I can turn off my computer from up here?
15:29:29 <atriq> If I know my password etc?
15:33:50 <Sgeo> atriq, you mean, by connecting via ssh?
15:33:58 <Sgeo> And then I think it's the shutdown command?
15:35:44 <atriq> Time to learn how to use ssh
15:36:21 <Sgeo> ssh username@hostname
15:36:37 <Sgeo> The computer might not have sshd running though
15:37:23 <atriq> I haven't set anything up
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15:53:12 <atriq> (I didn't do that)
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15:57:22 <Sgeo> What is "up here"? Different building, or same building?
15:57:28 <itidus21> but ya see being british theres - i'm no stranger to that. i grew up listening to radio. we'd a fuckin' ventriliquist star on the radio. a ventriloquist! i'm sure there was two guys - just showed up. hello archie! how ya doin bobbie? i wonder if they bothered bringing the doll at all. ah fuck it, leave it at home.
15:57:44 <itidus21> (probably not as funny as i hoped)
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16:03:26 <atriq> Just I can't be bothered to go downstairs
16:10:17 <itidus21> atriq: maybe it's time to build a downstairs riding robot
16:10:53 <atriq> That would involve getting up
16:11:29 <itidus21> i didn't grow up with stairs so i can't imagine what sort of games one thinks up to play with stairs
16:12:12 <atriq> Well, "see if you can get to the top floor without touching the stairs"
16:13:11 <itidus21> i believe that growing kids figure out a game to play with everything
16:16:00 <atriq> I wonder how hard it'd be to set this computer up as a proxy server
16:16:23 <Sgeo> Well, this was an experience
16:16:44 <Sgeo> (Writing a simple guess the number game in Clojure with Eclipse+Counterclockwise)
16:17:17 <itidus21> the cardboard roll left over with wrapping paper was always good to have swordfights, balloons made adhoc volleyballs, record players were good at making objects spin around, chairs made of foam could be shunted around like cars, hockey could be played with rubber balls + brooms
16:19:08 <itidus21> filling buckets with quamquots and throwing em at each other seemed fun at the time, lawn bowls played on carpet with marbles
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16:21:58 <itidus21> stacking cushions up over a chair and trying to leap over it, trying to get around on the furniture without touching the floor, i never personally did the thing with two tins joined by a wire as a makeshift radio, but there is paper planes too
16:22:04 <Arc_Koen> atriq: lambdabot went missing for some time yesterday night, so I left you a /ms message
16:23:33 <Arc_Koen> I think you can read them with "/ms read 0" or something
16:24:21 <Arc_Koen> (hrm, that should be a 1, actually)
16:25:18 <Arc_Koen> apparently 0 only works if you have no messages (in which case it tells you that you have no messages); if you do have messages, it tells you 0 is an invalid index number
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16:26:15 <itidus21> i have a feeling that learning to "pretend the floor is lava" is something we are genetically compelled to try
16:26:54 <itidus21> perhaps some dark chapter of human history
16:27:14 <Arc_Koen> you think there is a collective memory stuck in our unconscious mind, reminiscent of a time where the flood actually was lava?
16:28:58 <Arc_Koen> or maybe we're all potential thieves or spies, trained to avoid motion sensors on the ground.
16:29:19 <itidus21> `specialeffect lightning and dreariness
16:29:29 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: specialeffect: not found
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16:30:58 <itidus21> Arc_Koen: something like that. i like your wording
16:31:36 <Arc_Koen> should have said "a time when" I guess... stupid french language with no distinction between time and space
16:35:05 <atriq> Arc_Koen, I saw it
16:35:42 <itidus21> also.. for what it's worth i think quite a bit of super mario brothers gameplay boils down to "pretend the floor is <something_deadly/>"
16:36:52 <itidus21> so the cleverness was in abstracting that
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16:46:03 <Arc_Koen> I've only started playing spuer mario bros quite recently...
16:46:27 <Arc_Koen> (well, it's actually a fan-reprogrammed version of super mario bros where mario carries a portal gun...)
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17:16:24 <Gregor> Arc_Koen: Have you played the portal-inspired maps, or just the original ones?
17:16:45 <Gregor> Arc_Koen: TBH, the portal gun adds nothing whatsoever to the original game, but the portal-like game with Mario physics is fun.
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17:30:41 <kmc> huh, /r/programming is running a big ad soliciting donations for http://www.girlswhocode.com/
17:30:44 <kmc> that's cool
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17:44:12 <kmc> > scanl (+) 0 $ iterate (*20) 1
17:44:13 <lambdabot> [0,1,21,421,8421,168421,3368421,67368421,1347368421,26947368421,53894736842...
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18:48:14 <kmc> 'the USSD code to factory data reset a Galaxy S3 is *2767*3855# can be triggered from browser like this: <frame src="tel:*2767*3855%23" />'
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18:50:17 <atriq> Gregor, can you recommend a gateway hat
18:51:02 <Gregor> Do you mean “gateway” in the sense of gateway drug?
18:51:10 <kmc> i like the idea of putting this in a QR code
18:51:18 <atriq> Not as in hat shaped like a gate
18:52:28 <atriq> It's been recommended that I start wearing hats
18:53:15 <Gregor> atriq: http://www.villagehatshop.com/jaxon_wool_pork_pie.html
18:53:45 <Gregor> Which… they only seem to have in medium, so unless you're a size medium, ignore that :)
18:53:59 <atriq> Have no idea what hat size I am
18:54:05 <atriq> I'm very new to this
18:54:34 <kmc> http://www.wired.com/images_blogs/underwire/2012/09/heisenberg_660.jpg
18:57:28 <Gregor> atriq: Well, figure that out first.
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18:59:17 <Gregor> atriq: http://www.villagehatshop.com/jaxon_hats_c-crown_stingy-brim_fedoras_pinstripe.html
19:02:31 <itidus21> my fedora eventually became a gilligan
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20:32:10 <Arc_Koen> Gregor: yes, I've played the portal inspired ones
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20:32:27 <Arc_Koen> they were kinda fun, but sometimes a little repetitive
20:33:17 <Arc_Koen> I also tried the other maps (I think players made them), they were fun as well but usually redundant - that is, there is an "obvious way" you're supposed to do it, but you can often find shortcuts
20:33:18 -!- oerjan has set topic: Kinda fun, but sometimes a little repetitive | 我能吞下粘土而不伤身体。| Taneb is atriq, just so you know | My other Taneb is a dead racehorse | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ | http://esolangs.org/wiki.
20:34:08 <oerjan> i think it meant something with clay
20:34:15 <oerjan> it was already in the topic
20:34:30 <Arc_Koen> "I don't. Well, mostly not" or something
20:35:03 <Arc_Koen> FreeFull: what's the minus world? I had never played before so I wouldn't know
20:35:08 <pikhq_> It's definitely not Japanese.
20:35:27 <Arc_Koen> well the last character looks japanese
20:35:40 <Arc_Koen> the middle stuff don't, though
20:35:43 <pikhq_> It's Simplified Chinese.
20:35:47 <oerjan> google translate gave a coherent result for chinese as i recall
20:36:33 <pikhq_> The shinjitai of 體, 体 is also the Simplified of 體.
20:36:47 <Arc_Koen> there's that "wrapping area" I accessed by accident from world 4, that leads to worlds 6, 7 and 8 via green pipes
20:37:02 <FreeFull> Arc_Koen: 1-2 has warping area too
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20:37:15 <Arc_Koen> made the game kind of boring though... now I feel like I could just complete world 8 without going through the remaining three
20:37:16 <FreeFull> But if you go through the wall instead of properly, and go into the pipe before the screen scrolls completely
20:37:22 <FreeFull> You end up in a glitched out world instead
20:37:45 <Arc_Koen> one of the 4th-levels did loop forever
20:38:14 <Arc_Koen> that is, there was a repetitive sequence of tiles that repeated forever, until you had passed it "the right way"
20:38:39 -!- Gregor has set topic: Kinda fun, but sometimes a little repetitive | No hablo chino. | Taneb is atriq, just so you know | My other Taneb is a dead racehorse | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ | http://esolangs.org/wiki.
20:38:46 <Arc_Koen> I went through ten or so times through it the easy way before I tried the other -_-
20:40:03 <Arc_Koen> the portal guns adds nothing in the original maps, but can be used to "cheat" - for instance the first time I did that underwater level, I hadn't realized I could swim, so I had to climb all the walls using portals
20:40:27 <Arc_Koen> (which was very hazardous with all the jellyfishes around)
20:46:29 <oerjan> 16:26:15: <itidus21> i have a feeling that learning to "pretend the floor is lava" is something we are genetically compelled to try
20:46:32 <oerjan> 16:26:54: <itidus21> perhaps some dark chapter of human history
20:46:38 <oerjan> when we lived in the trees, i presume
20:46:57 <oerjan> _actual_ lava wouldn't work for this.
20:47:15 <atriq> "The floor is full of tigers and stuff"
20:47:30 <FreeFull> Yeah, the air near lava is hot too
20:47:44 <itidus21> lava was just an absurd lemma for dangerous below
20:47:51 <oerjan> see http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ConvectionSchmonvection if you have plenty of time
20:48:02 <Arc_Koen> pretended lava works so much better than actual lava!
20:48:05 <itidus21> im not sure if that is correct use of lemma
20:48:10 <FreeFull> That's why people near lava wear those reflective suits
20:48:38 <oerjan> itidus21: i'm pretty sure it's not the usual use
20:48:49 <Arc_Koen> I think in one of the canary islands, the population had to hide from pirates inside a lava tunnel
20:51:42 <FreeFull> I don't think Tenerife has lava tunnels?
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21:24:56 <Arc_Koen> FreeFull: so how do I go to this 1-2 wrapping world?
21:26:39 <FreeFull> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WG_xxm-HSRY
21:28:19 <Arc_Koen> so you need the glitch to go to it
21:28:43 <Arc_Koen> well, I remember this "you can't go back" thingy, but I think it doesn't exist any longer on the current version of mar0
21:32:09 <Arc_Koen> ok, I can see the world after the wall
21:32:15 <Arc_Koen> but I don't know how to get through to it
21:33:21 <Arc_Koen> used the portals to climb to the ceiling
21:40:00 <Arc_Koen> oerjan: ok, finite state automaton
21:40:24 <Arc_Koen> but it can "access" a memory as large as its input
21:49:41 <Arc_Koen> (btw, I don't really know what a transition graph exactly is, but wouldn't that mean that Bipoint is equivalent to FSAs?
21:55:35 <Arc_Koen> hey if I want to implement a deque, is it more usual to call its functions push_front, push_back, pop_front, pop_back, etc., or push_front, push_rear, pop_front, pop_rear, etc.?
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22:02:11 <oerjan> Arc_Koen: it's equivalent to FSA as far as recognizing input is concerned, although obviously not as far as giving output
22:04:14 <Arc_Koen> ...it's been so long I had forgotten automata had input
22:04:18 <oerjan> although i think the output-giving FSAs are not as often teached as the recognizing ones (the former are called transducers, the latter are what is equivalent to regular expressions)
22:06:29 <oerjan> i just learned from wikipedia that it's undecidable whether two FS tranducers are equivalent...
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22:14:10 * itidus21 empties a truckload of transducers into the esolang wiki.
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22:42:22 <Arc_Koen> hmmmm I thought Kipple had no popping mechanism
22:42:47 <Arc_Koen> for instance I thought that "a>b" would push a copy of the topmost element of a onto b
22:43:15 <Arc_Koen> well that's what the description seemed to imply
22:43:18 <Arc_Koen> but "Input is pushed onto stack i before the program is executed"
22:43:38 <Arc_Koen> this seems to imply that reading a character would pop it
22:43:58 <Arc_Koen> (otherwise only the last character inputted can be read)
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23:09:40 <fizzie> @tell Arc_Koen Arguably (but certainly also counterarguably) the fact that the things are called stacks sort of mildly implies that the act of reading involves popping a value. (And the cat example only makes sense that way.)
23:10:31 <oerjan> one, two, three, argue!
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23:12:30 <olsner> "arguably" is a nice word ... is there anything that can't be argued about?
23:13:30 <fizzie> There's no arguing about taste, I've heard.
23:14:37 <fizzie> And clearly all sentences that involve "clearly" are unarguable.
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23:15:48 <Gregor> And because all sentences using the word “clearly” are unarguable, clearly eugenics is pretty great, right guys?
23:16:13 <olsner> it even has good (eu-) in the name
23:16:31 <olsner> if it was bad it would be called malgenics or something
23:19:10 <oerjan> olsner: dysgenics, duh
23:19:25 <oerjan> don't mix your greek and latin
23:20:58 <fizzie> I suppose that also means all EU projects/directives/legislation/bureaucracy/etc. are good things.
23:29:46 <Gregor> fizzie: Please tell me that somewhere, someone, somehow, for some reason, has created the portmanteau “EU-genics”
23:30:52 <olsner> I did find http://philosophers-stone.co.uk/wordpress/2011/02/nazi-eu-genics-sterilisation-scalpels-rolled-out-in-uk/
23:31:04 <fizzie> The Danish grounded outlet: happiest electric outlet? http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0a/107-2-D1_-_Danish_electrical_plugs_-_Studio_2011.jpg/237px-107-2-D1_-_Danish_electrical_plugs_-_Studio_2011.jpg (middle)
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