< 1349136141 174575 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1349136461 62080 :TeruFSX!~TeruFSX@65-128-188-237.mpls.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1349136892 21185 :jiella!~jiella@cs27103076.pp.htv.fi QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1349137087 369910 :kwertii!~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii JOIN :#esoteric < 1349137101 702898 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (zipWith (/) `on` map (fromIntegral . ord)) "A[bbe\GSPehbZ\RS" "Hello World!" -- previous 10% bug, fwiw < 1349137103 725695 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [0.9027777777777778,0.900990099009901,0.9074074074074074,0.9074074074074074... < 1349138707 52836 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: what was this esolang again, i vaguely recall this 10% bug thing... < 1349140222 984656 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1349142247 955051 :trout!root@freebsd/developer/variable NICK :const < 1349142652 69132 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 JOIN :#esoteric < 1349142770 56821 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Ribbit < 1349142952 739311 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1349144380 993619 :TeruFSX!~TeruFSX@65-128-188-237.mpls.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1349145200 115986 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1349145228 121251 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1349145472 410769 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://goatkcd.com/1115/sfw [nsfw] < 1349147195 6554 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1349147695 171076 :ogrom!~nask@gprs-inet-65-12.elisa.ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1349147774 612602 :ogrom!~nask@gprs-inet-65-12.elisa.ee QUIT :Client Quit < 1349149102 541177 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does 6502 do on each cycle of an instruction? < 1349149149 145476 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :usually a memory operation < 1349149190 515308 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in some cases just an "internal operation" (all 2 cycle instructions that don't access memory are like this) < 1349149208 547460 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :such as nop (2 cycles) < 1349149233 261973 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or lsr a (2 cycles) < 1349149255 575874 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But in instructions taking longer to execute, what memory access read/write done with each cycle? When does it read the next instruction and its operands? < 1349149269 865091 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a large majority of cycles do a memory op) < 1349149284 368538 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1349149296 605563 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it is pipelined < 1349149334 436882 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so a cycle is something like < 1349149366 554853 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[cycle 1] read instruction < 1349149397 426620 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[cycle 2] no memory op but ALU is active < 1349149441 492851 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If there is no memory operations, what is on the address bus at that time? < 1349149449 315456 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :who knows < 1349149484 46371 :sivoais!~zaki@199.19.225.239 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1349149486 532472 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :F L O A T I N G B U S < 1349149486 726985 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably the same address as last cycle, or 0 < 1349149497 530289 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or z :D < 1349149570 541782 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fun fact: the original nmos 6502 was so slow that it actually only accessed memory half the cycles on the Apple II < 1349149584 541487 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other half was used by the video display :D < 1349149610 327078 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i heard the original nmos 6502 would also do crazy shit if you gave it invalid instructions < 1349149612 85789 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I know. < 1349149643 19870 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: yeah that's what the docs say :D < 1349149644 359926 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there are unofficial instructions? < 1349149658 762413 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought some of them were byproducts of the instruction decode logic < 1349149667 419622 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo: the docs say that a lot are unstable < 1349149678 851670 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus they won't work on a 65816 < 1349149686 834229 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes I know, I read that some are unstable, but they said some are stable. < 1349149718 7075 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But some are the same as other instructions and so are not so useful unless you are also using the instruction opcodes as data in the same program < 1349149724 79537 :sivoais!~zaki@199.19.225.239 JOIN :#esoteric < 1349149758 955040 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Demo sceners have been using the “invalid” 6502 instructions a lot. < 1349149794 272536 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :supposedly they do weird shit like adding and anding stuff at the same time < 1349149813 783959 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such things can occasionally be useful. < 1349149846 549407 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you’re counting cycles, certainly. < 1349149891 61598 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have added the stable unofficial instructions into Unofficial MagicKit (only available for targets which do not override those instructions with new ones) < 1349149984 469920 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :reading about the 6502 it does come off as totally underpowered < 1349150008 795172 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even the 65816 < 1349150485 919890 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :6502 has decimal mode, but some 6502 based computers lack decimal mode < 1349150583 455139 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :who uses decimal mode? < 1349150593 653299 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is the decimal mode useful for something other than decimal calculation? < 1349150619 607022 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :trolling < 1349150622 221696 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know who uses decimal mode. < 1349150632 738240 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my guess is: banks < 1349150759 909953 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some programs I wrote are for Famicom which lacks decimal mode, so I have never used it. If I program a computer which does have decimal mode I may sometimes used it. < 1349150785 210807 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :x86 has some instructions for BCD arithmetic. < 1349150801 255052 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I think they cannot be used in 64-bit mode. < 1349150824 953932 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :correct :/ < 1349150854 175007 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are useful for things besides BCD < 1349150867 849804 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAM does AH <- AL / 10; AL <- AL % 10 < 1349150876 148158 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can actually change that 10 by changing the second byte of the instruction < 1349150878 214845 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, AAM and AAD, you can change the base < 1349150881 365733 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know that < 1349150987 762696 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I suppose setting the base to 1 would be a way to move AL to AH and then set AL to zero, it might be slower but it might also be a smaller code < 1349150998 518264 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What happen if you set the base to zero? < 1349151060 935300 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Will GCC or LLVM make these instructions if it is not 64-bit mode? < 1349151132 427378 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably not imho < 1349151144 840953 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they probably don't run fast on modern processors < 1349151172 91671 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know it may be slow, but might it sometimes result in a smaller code, if you select that option for some subroutines? < 1349151191 710151 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :smaller code? < 1349151221 840366 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, you can't even express BCD operations in C/C++ afaik < 1349151234 515646 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :In case you want to optimize some functions for size and some for speed < 1349151329 680080 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how would you shrink a function by using BCD? < 1349151334 965910 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know C has no commands for BCD operation, and LLVM also has no commands for BCD operation, but some things may sometime result in equivalent to such operation, or even other operation which the target computer may have < 1349151421 278853 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: I don't know, but it might if the function is used for making BCD calculation. And anyways, the AAM and AAD instruction can be used for operations other than BCD arithmetic too. < 1349151443 349564 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like what < 1349151485 44264 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :They described above AAM does AH <- AL / 10; AL <- AL % 10 but it does not have to be 10 you can use a different number instead < 1349151513 207872 :kwertii!~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii QUIT :Quit: kwertii < 1349151639 57123 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such as if you just want to move AL to AH and then set AL to zero, or to move some of the bits of the numbers in certain way, it would probably be very slow to use division but may result in a smaller code, such as if used only for initialization, or if you want the code to fit in MBR < 1349151777 128032 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps < 1349151793 924616 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :still hare brained and no new instruction set should have those monstruosities :D < 1349151875 151084 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, wtf, 6 BCD instructions on x86 < 1349151885 881380 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which could have been something useful instead < 1349151955 953238 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-149-125.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but in CISC design it almost makes sense < 1349152014 215902 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I think AAM and AAD are useful instructions. < 1349152026 904505 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1349152030 413122 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they all have 1 byte opcodes too < 1349152072 862399 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo: no way < 1349152089 991431 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they take 10/18 cycles on the pentium < 1349152103 67849 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :bear in mind that x86 is evolved from a wee little calculator processor < 1349152131 983423 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-149-125.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. Its lineage goes back to a CPU with 4-bit address space for a desktop calculator. < 1349152133 48180 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1349152146 520700 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-149-125.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. Was it 4 bit address space? < 1349152152 959269 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :depressing but true < 1349152153 153867 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-149-125.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Might've just been 4 bit registers. < 1349152159 2646 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-149-125.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyways. Silly. < 1349152182 205421 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-149-125.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :12-bit address space. < 1349152186 334424 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-149-125.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :4 bit registers. < 1349152188 829669 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :amazingly it's still better than the 6502 < 1349152209 704155 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which never got a 32bit version < 1349152221 44913 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-149-125.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It did. < 1349152236 314659 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-149-125.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, thinko. < 1349152239 960449 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-149-125.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It got a 16 bit version. < 1349152241 116354 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes they are too slow, but if they are not too slow it may sometimes be useful, and it can also be useful if you do not need it to be fast < 1349152250 488133 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, 65816, used on the snes < 1349152266 260781 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-149-125.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Not* a 32 bit version. < 1349152293 339072 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo: you could simply store a LUT somewhere < 1349152327 126323 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and do the same operation in 1 cycle, pairable on the pentium < 1349152485 481353 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's all about the pentiums < 1349152578 884446 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, essentially on the pentium they decided which instructions would be fast, and which ones would be slow < 1349152589 330993 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the same selection applies to the later processors < 1349152678 685991 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and essentially that's where they turned x86 into a bogo-risc < 1349153117 989531 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: mosh works with the scroll wheel now? < 1349153148 359731 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does? < 1349153159 211011 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :for what values of "works"? < 1349153175 876639 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm moshing to my irssi and scrolling the scroll wheel goes up and down in history. < 1349153203 665858 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1349153224 827049 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am surprised < 1349153242 588048 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, this might be a fluke. < 1349153251 73038 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1349153259 246179 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think we're setting alternate screen on the client < 1349153262 764755 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/keithw/mosh/issues/2 is still open < 1349153268 269512 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can ask in #mosh though < 1349153270 693404 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep, even if I detach from screen, scroll-wheel goes up and down in bash history. < 1349153288 806125 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Somehow I got into scroll-wheel-sends-up-and-down-arrows mode, or something. < 1349153350 815617 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1349153352 765597 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that's useful < 1349153418 898921 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the neon sign, scrolling up and down, i am born again < 1349153420 385585 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Hah, irssi put me in this mode. < 1349153425 892410 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :irssi ate my balls < 1349153431 6913 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1349153439 973838 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I previous sshed to irssi and exited with ~. < 1349153877 448443 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ARM has like 10 different multiply instructions < 1349154057 243949 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait no < 1349154058 170235 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :20 < 1349154058 364763 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What kind of multiply instrucions? < 1349154070 656318 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :multiply, multiply accumulate, multiply subtract < 1349154080 282655 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :multiply to 64 bit < 1349154084 250699 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :multiply 16 bit < 1349154158 186785 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird "wide" multiply (32*16) < 1349154209 529784 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :multiply 16 bit into 64 bit accumulator (weird :o ) < 1349154265 282504 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :double 16 bit multiply adding/subtracting the productions < 1349154306 19155 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :32 bit mul keeping only the most significant 32 bits of the result < 1349154391 843527 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :dual 16bit multiply adding/subtracting the products then accumulating < 1349154449 428612 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :multiply with combining grass radical above < 1349154455 78020 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :same but accumulating 64bit < 1349154516 630942 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :multiply 32 bit into 64bit accumulator < 1349154519 688567 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's it < 1349154540 286070 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :...for the non SIMD multiplications :D < 1349154558 666739 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the SIMD ones are even crazier :D < 1349154818 986907 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :good thing ARMs don't have bcd < 1349155035 391178 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know any computers with a triple indirect jump with post increment instruction? < 1349155118 928520 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the RCA 1802 has weird indirect registers < 1349155120 553515 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Using the SEP instruction, you can select any of the 16 registers to be the program counter; using the SEX instruction, you can select any of the 16-bit registers to be the index register." < 1349155148 577303 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i don't know what the addressing modes are < 1349155156 164557 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: do you want this address mode for any particular purpose? < 1349155205 527014 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am just wondering if anything has something like that. < 1349155248 242476 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It allows you to change which register is the program counter? I have never seen anything like that before. < 1349155265 201791 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1349155283 595736 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :as wikipedia describes, this was sometimes used for fast subroutine calls, even alternating coroutines < 1349155807 797102 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so CISC < 1349155813 856571 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sooooooooo CISC < 1349155943 530068 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :can be translated as "this architecture will never be able to be pipelined" < 1349156099 539578 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1349156127 444264 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARM lets you swap the contents of the instruction pointer and another register, right? < 1349156131 568399 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is similarly useful and less crazy < 1349156156 885990 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah ARM has the PC as one of the GPRs < 1349156165 366313 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which turned out to be a mistake < 1349156181 365259 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now if you look at the ARM manual most instructions say < 1349156204 709457 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"non of the operands of this instruction can be r15 (pc)" < 1349156222 228327 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's too bad < 1349156247 957999 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's ok when you're running at 10mhz and your pipeline is 2 cycles long < 1349156304 985369 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :once your cpu is doing 2 instructions at the same time then your PC is not your PC anymore < 1349156338 459690 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not to mention crazy out of order CPUs (essentially all modern CPUs) < 1349156387 492846 :sivoais!~zaki@199.19.225.239 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1349156404 410690 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CISC? < 1349156406 801256 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pipelined? < 1349156425 694731 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sgeo: it's possible! < 1349156434 536465 :sivoais!~zaki@199.19.225.239 JOIN :#esoteric < 1349156439 391722 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in, I don't know what either of those mean. < 1349156460 615728 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know RISC is reduced ... something about few instructions < 1349156468 849473 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like a small number of opcodes or something < 1349156480 59968 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1349156512 395102 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :a CPU has several stages to process an instruction < 1349156533 615504 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fetch the instruction from memory, figure out what it means, fetch operand(s) from memory, do arithmetic or whatever, save result < 1349156538 595537 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :risc = lots of registers, high instruction set orthogonality < 1349156548 21624 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :each of these has a different piece of hardware < 1349156562 573823 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would suck if we only used one of those units at a time < 1349156570 986626 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but the number of stages varies a lot < 1349156579 995468 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a pipelined processor we are fetching one instruction while we decode the previous one, while we fetch for another, etc. < 1349156584 355885 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah this is a simplistic explanation < 1349156586 460727 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's the idea < 1349156603 180661 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1349156632 816940 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ideal early RISC cpu runs 1 instruction per cycle < 1349156634 231977 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :another way to look at it is, if you tried to do all that stuff in one clock cycle, your max clock speed would be really low, because of the delay to propogate through all those logic gates < 1349156636 383877 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What happens with jumps or conditionals? < 1349156650 289410 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sgeo: depends on the length of the pipeline < 1349156653 897321 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that's a trick < 1349156668 156153 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is why on MIPS processors, the instruction after a branch gets executed even if the branch is taken < 1349156675 795208 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :on longer pipelines and stuff like the x86 it tries to predict the result < 1349156686 96993 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :RISC processors tend to expose these implementation details, on the grounds that the compiler can deal with them < 1349156710 150549 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, hmm. I thought maybe the fetched thing that was after the jump just gets discarded < 1349156726 288496 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sgeo: not on the MIPS < 1349156735 89640 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah you can stall the pipeline like that < 1349156743 337696 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it makes CPUs easier to design < 1349156754 946253 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then you're executing fewer than one instruction per clock < 1349156765 132222 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the compiler has nothing useful to put there, it can insert a NOP < 1349156768 551464 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there's not much point later on when your pipeline is 8 cycles and you have to do branch prediction anyways < 1349156769 960144 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise maybe it can do some useful work < 1349156793 217200 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 cycle isn't much, you can pretty much always put something there < 1349156840 619237 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: another problem is data dependencies, what if a write and a read from the same register are in the ppipeline at the same time < 1349156851 815162 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah < 1349156868 557739 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can stall, or you can insert "bypass" paths which let it read the value that will be written, rather than the stale value that's in the register file < 1349156874 867720 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which adds complexity < 1349156880 457841 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :MIT's 6.004 is a really nice intro to this stuff < 1349156883 702873 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if your cpu is a well designed RISC you can do these all in 1 cycle < 1349156893 229394 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you design a RISC processor in a logic gate level simulator < 1349156899 852666 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then you can optimize it for speed < 1349156912 763213 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the labs and software are available online < 1349156913 432203 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but once you're doing like 2 operations at the same time etc you have to introduce stalls < 1349156921 492790 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or out of order execution < 1349156949 180916 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i did the 2 stage pipeline with stalls on branches, which wasn't too bad < 1349156956 385325 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but more than 2 stages gets hairy < 1349157032 103066 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :TMS320C64x has two-instruction delay slots. Except it's one instruction if it's one of the instructions that are followed by an immediate word. Keeping track of that kind of thing manually is kind of a pain. (Though I suppose you're meant to mostly just write C and use the provided algo libs.) < 1349157045 3833 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a DSP? < 1349157052 833345 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1349157060 762905 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :VLIW is still popular for DSPs right? < 1349157062 983439 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION does not know why
< 1349157079 520431 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: they're probably easier to design < 1349157109 365025 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course that's a road to the intel itanium and we all know what happened to that one :D < 1349157114 573571 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know how popular; the C64x used by the popular-in-phones OMAP platform (at least OMAP3 and I think 4 too) is a VLIW thing. < 1349157123 809146 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's amazing how far the inner workings of a CPU are from the virtual machine suggested by the instruction set < 1349157136 848572 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :when people talk about how C and assembly tell you "what the machine is really doing" i just laugh and laugh < 1349157159 630235 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :They tell you what *a* machine is really doing. < 1349157164 786242 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(of course with C people also forget that there's an optimizing compiler which can make liberal use of undefined behavior) < 1349157167 647283 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's always another turtle somewhere. < 1349157172 252363 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1349157182 390733 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they act like they've found the bottom turtle and it's special < 1349157213 537190 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1349157217 306760 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :We should make up the CPU where the instruction set corresponds closely to the inner working and work faster too. < 1349157218 511643 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The ISA is a pretty good turtle. < 1349157224 138747 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it's the bottom turtle you can actually write for < 1349157232 871520 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: that is the idea of RISC basically < 1349157234 175874 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo: that's called a VLIW < 1349157259 346411 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i guess VLIW is that idea for superscalar < 1349157265 389684 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo: the big problem with VLIW is that they bust the instruction cache < 1349157282 174576 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd end up with an instruction word like < 1349157289 33864 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-149-125.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Doncha *love* it when people act like x86 asm is what the machine "really does"? < 1349157298 39544 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: do you know about implementing a touch / proximity sensor with two digital I/O pins, a resistor, and a piece of wire? < 1349157313 812547 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Nope! < 1349157318 310429 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-149-125.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rather than just being the lowest abstraction Intel provides? *urgh* < 1349157322 165021 :nortti!nortti@dsl-hkibrasgw3-ff25c000-52.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1349157325 689537 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you set one pin as input and one as output < 1349157341 822532 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :connect the pins with a big resistor (≥ 1 MΩ) < 1349157348 258311 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :add r0, r1, r4 sub r3, r7, r8 add r9, r2, r14 shfnop mulnop ldr r5, r13 < 1349157350 867986 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have had ideas of CPU instruction sets based on what is hardware what I was thinking of. < 1349157361 63455 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also connect your wire or metal plate to the input pin < 1349157378 377597 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :essentially a bunch of ALUs, each one gets an operation on every cycle < 1349157388 659731 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you simply toggle the voltage at the output, and see how long it takes the input to match < 1349157403 135023 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a measure of the capacitance on that pin, which will change if someone touches or gets near the wire / plate < 1349157414 553661 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other big problem with an architecture like that is that, what happens if you have a cache miss? < 1349157432 555062 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Makes sense. < 1349157436 936066 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd have to stall everything < 1349157485 703187 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also you'd probably have to cover the chip in multiplexers < 1349157535 856337 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other other problem is that your compiler has to be crazy smart < 1349157545 46379 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1349157548 849498 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another idea I have, is first you need a open-specification FPGA (some people have partially reverse-engineered the AT40k FPGA, so we can use that), and have a compiler which takes LLVM codes with speed annotations (such as: this function runs in less than 1 million clock cycles if the third parameter is divisible by 5) and creates a hardware optimized for running this program. < 1349157553 908976 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno how smart it would have to be but yeah < 1349157588 931171 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be workable if it could reorder operations over multiple loop iterations but afaik C pointers usually have some ways to defeat that < 1349157610 700346 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does what I said would work at all? < 1349157635 648367 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tho I've heard that GCC is even able to autovectorize loops so it might be workable after all < 1349157680 133372 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the FPGA is capable of reprogramming itself at runtime, then you can have not only self-modifying software codes, but you can have self-modifying hardware codes as well. < 1349157694 493718 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps VLIW is popular for DSP because people are willing to hand-code these algorithms (and use them from libraries) rather than expecting to feed some 40 year old FORTRAN codes in and get good performance < 1349157714 372462 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imho the problem is C/C++ < 1349157730 879447 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc would surely agree that "C/C++" is a problem. < 1349157751 185809 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :using "code" as a non-uncountable noun is a sign that one has worked in academic computing < 1349157756 799925 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What problem is C/C++? It has some problems but I don't know what problem you mean. < 1349157758 900948 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :like "here is a code for fourier transform" < 1349157768 412382 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"here is a collection of codes for manipulating splines" < 1349157801 962047 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo: the general problem is that the user might throw weird pointers at your algo < 1349157806 125166 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought "code" as a non-uncountable noun is a sign that you don't understand programming at all and want people to give you stuff to copy and paste < 1349157809 155870 :nortti!nortti@dsl-hkibrasgw3-ff25c000-52.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1349157813 956986 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like multiple buffers that are really the same buffer < 1349157872 638262 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is why you have to specify in your documentation, if it is allow to be the same buffer or not, and stuff like that < 1349157887 676728 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the compiler doesn't know that < 1349157899 273543 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you can use the 'restrict' keyword in some cases < 1349157901 820690 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo: that's why older C/C++ compilers have a "no aliasing" switch < 1349157910 66313 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they added the "restrict" keyword so that the compiler will know that? < 1349157921 532981 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means that you promise pretty promise that you're not going to do it < 1349157922 551821 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I also think LLVM has corrected some things? < 1349157934 747641 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does LLVM have all of these things better way? < 1349157942 628786 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :though recent compilers don't seem to have the switch so they might have found out some better way yeah < 1349158024 382144 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if that is the case it reduces the VLIW's problems to "code size" and "how to prevent a stall when you have to fetch the data all the way from the RAM" < 1349158068 435570 :nortti!nortti@dsl-hkibrasgw3-ff25c000-52.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :stopping irssi with ^z accidentaly seems to result in nothing else than disconnection from everywhere < 1349158107 484977 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My stomach hurts, don't know if it's hunger or nausea < 1349158112 253181 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or what < 1349158164 188473 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :My idea is to have multiple memory connected, one for program, one for data X, one for data Y, and any of them can be switched with each other, and then have the address bus for data X and Y to be their own registers, the data bus are also their own registers, use LFSR-based PC with one register affecting the LFSR taps, an instruction transfer register to register with condition.... < 1349158183 10029 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo: you don't need multiple memories when you have cache < 1349158252 798640 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Having the LFSR-based PC with a register affecting the LFSR taps is somewhat like having a multi-dimensional programming language, if done in the correct way needed to do this, I guess < 1349158278 85685 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, and then also add multiplexer calculation like how the Muxcomp esolang does it < 1349158311 435052 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :These are just some ideas I have to make a CPU; I don't know how it is really working. < 1349158351 916051 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd try going for one that has the maximum number of ALUs < 1349158355 949333 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: But when you have cache, don't you then also need to have stuff such as cache invalidation and checking if it is cache and so on, unless your instruction set is dealing directly with the cache < 1349158368 281216 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and base everything else around keeping those ALUs full most of the time < 1349158421 267881 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo: yeah but afaik that's not so bad < 1349158497 273983 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also seems difficult to predict how many clock cycles a certain sequence of instructions will take if it automatically reorders them and put into cache and all that other stuff. < 1349158605 772916 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :true but still < 1349158618 654501 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :considering how DRAM works it's a lot faster to have cache < 1349158650 892818 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it prevents the need of having multiple ram areas for program, data x etc... < 1349158667 601176 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, but I still want it that the cache only works with instructions that directly tells the cache what to do < 1349158713 213562 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but then the compiler has to guess what goes in cache < 1349158733 484494 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and all the manual cache management will probably slow it down a lot < 1349158824 313328 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the big benefit of cache is that essentially your inner CPU core doesn't have to deal with DRAM anymore < 1349158849 432149 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it becomes just "load from cache, stall if I get a cache miss" < 1349158891 328630 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, for a long time the DRAM controller wasn't even on the processor < 1349158950 999299 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you could require that instructions can only execute from cache, and these instructions modify other instructions in cache in order to affect the values you are dealing with, and have the external address/data bus to just be registers visible to the program stored in cache < 1349159026 487647 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :good luck writing a program for that < 1349159124 157783 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could then also have multi-cores executing separate programs simultaneously, with some registers shared, and others which are not shared, and some which are partially shared. < 1349159161 890402 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aka the Cell processor < 1349159456 88855 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or have something like that checkboard design mentioned on esolang list of ideas, which has the checkerboard of processor and memory (so each processor accesses four memory cores and each memory is accessed by four processor cores) < 1349159477 753511 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know how well it would work < 1349159482 493809 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1349159503 650208 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not familiar with multicore operation < 1349159515 711292 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Neither am I, actually. < 1349159539 61124 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :except from the user point of view ("you have to mutex everything because nothing happens in the real order") < 1349159586 17148 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote in esolang list of ideas, make a programming language which requires bus conflicts and race conditions in order to work. < 1349159609 730209 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one nice idea I had is a dataflow processor < 1349159624 338485 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, instead of having "write x to register y" < 1349159637 847383 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :have each register take a new value each cycle < 1349159646 434811 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and have one ALU per register < 1349159657 255928 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, do like that. < 1349159665 267068 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Somehow. < 1349159729 90081 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe with access to values produced 2 or 3 cycles ago < 1349159738 697766 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1349159739 857460 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or switching between two sets of registers < 1349159785 772799 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What would you think about my idea of making the program which includes the hardware description of the CPU optimized to execute this specific program? < 1349159802 998761 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :afaik that already exists < 1349159826 728567 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it possible to compile LLVM programs into such things? < 1349159965 727088 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it's some crazy expensive design software < 1349160012 336328 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :afaik most people just get a fast ARM system on a chip and run the C++ on that instead :D < 1349160118 629789 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's probably not very different from writing a C++ program and optimising the few loops that run a lot in ASM < 1349160251 32443 :nortti!nortti@dsl-hkibrasgw3-ff25c000-52.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://jollatides.com/2012/10/01/jolla-handset-poll-give-jolla-your-feedback/ < 1349160492 619135 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other weird thing is that the amount of gates and latency of components like adders can vary < 1349160563 929123 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :afaik modern processors use very low latency adders which means they're probably enormous < 1349160588 512775 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARM has some complicated instructions, requires memory of differing data sizes, apparently you are not allowed to use some instructions unless you pay them, and OpenCores made a "Amber" processor based on ARM but they were sued and not allowed to make anything beyond ARMv2 < 1349160643 679162 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1349160651 274534 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oooh: a CPU where you have to plug in a credit card to enable some parts of the instruction set. And a per-instruction charge. Careful with those loops, now! < 1349160680 355647 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think this is stupid so I do not want to use ARM in a computer design. < 1349160683 728056 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: that's ARM's revenue model < 1349160733 911333 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :from what I can tell they license the SIMD unit and stuff like that < 1349160772 182957 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is why some androids don't have them and you have to have a C++ version of like everything :D < 1349160820 422069 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps, but it doesn't quite go as far as getting money when the individual end users want to run something that takes advantage of tricky parts. < 1349160826 559365 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :multiple data sizes is ok, the really complicated one afaik is when you allow unaligned accesses < 1349160874 698841 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :supposedly there's a patent on that too < 1349161137 60910 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about a design that has 2 modes: RISC, and VLIW < 1349161156 432206 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :RISC is designed to run C++, have compact code (16bit opcodes) < 1349161180 773106 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :VLIW is for the few inner loops that run a lot and have to be optimised < 1349161263 477656 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the vliw mode can probably even be specially simplified < 1349161307 434607 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it probably doesn't have to deal with, say, real branching < 1349161325 791815 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's going to mostly loop the same piece of code hundreads of time < 1349161336 986487 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok sleep < 1349161338 34914 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 QUIT :Quit: Radiateur < 1349161444 280030 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blerp. They upgraded this workstation, and now XMonad keybindings for switching between monitors (mod-{w,e,r}) are in the wrong order, because screen 0 happens to be the right one, not the left one. < 1349161628 523250 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Man, these Intel model numbers, I've completely lost track of them. It used to be so simple. < 1349161640 210642 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now this new workstation has an "E31230". < 1349162566 216805 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What hardware programming language would you program it by specifying what gates you use and what connection you use between them and what propagation delay? < 1349163069 404874 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1349163983 261321 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if he was trying to describe something like verilog < 1349165034 293074 :atriq!~nathan@host-2-99-92-60.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1349165044 635415 :atriq!~nathan@host-2-99-92-60.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages? < 1349165044 866761 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, no messages today. < 1349165422 497462 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't rotate this single screen when it's in a NVidia TwinView configuration? < 1349165740 921285 :atriq!~nathan@host-2-99-92-60.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, my lack of knowledge of C is letting me down < 1349165753 814087 :atriq!~nathan@host-2-99-92-60.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does "typedef int8_t jbyte" name jbyte as a type synonym of int8_t? < 1349165768 381497 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1349165774 121400 :atriq!~nathan@host-2-99-92-60.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay < 1349165787 596864 :atriq!~nathan@host-2-99-92-60.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, in Haskell, that'd be something like "type JByte = Int8" < 1349165853 634487 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you take a regular declaration that makes 'foo', say, a pointer to a no-arg function returning int -- int (*foo)(void) -- then adding a typedef in front makes 'foo' a synonym for the type it would've normally made 'foo' an instance of. < 1349165897 400260 :atriq!~nathan@host-2-99-92-60.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay < 1349165908 617100 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In a declaration whose storage-class specifier is typedef, each declarator defines an identifier to be a typedef name that denotes the type specified for the identifier in the way described in 6.7.6." < 1349165924 171799 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's kind of a silly that 'typedef' is a "storage-class specifier". < 1349165977 215390 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :("The typedef specifier is called a ‘‘storage-class specifier’’ for syntactic convenience only.") < 1349165983 968275 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1349166182 73452 :atriq!~nathan@host-2-99-92-60.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, my C textbook is new enough to tell me about typedef, and despite elliott's recommendations I have not burnt it yet. < 1349166185 756352 :atriq!~nathan@host-2-99-92-60.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, I'll read that < 1349168734 474459 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-24-31-176.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1349168744 661685 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-149-125.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1349168816 284749 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1349168822 703710 :atriq!~nathan@host-2-99-92-60.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey < 1349168852 382801 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what's up? have you completed your fueue interpreter in haskell? < 1349168865 988637 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (replicate 3 ) (replicate 2 [2, 2]) < 1349168867 159018 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [[[2,2],[2,2]],[[2,2],[2,2]],[[2,2],[2,2]]] < 1349168872 29534 :atriq!~nathan@host-2-99-92-60.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haven't been working on it < 1349168884 123366 :atriq!~nathan@host-2-99-92-60.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to port something fizzie and elliott made a while back to Haskell < 1349169228 874256 :atriq!~nathan@host-2-99-92-60.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm having difficulties in that C is not Haskell < 1349169476 341965 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :atriq: go on < 1349169486 272813 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has been working on a term rewriting grammar
< 1349169490 484259 :atriq!~nathan@host-2-99-92-60.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mutable variables, for a start < 1349169523 428102 :atriq!~nathan@host-2-99-92-60.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, that's the only difference between C and Haskell I'm having trouble accounting ofr < 1349169525 240898 :atriq!~nathan@host-2-99-92-60.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*for < 1349169533 754962 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pattern -> [replcaement | condition] < 1349169541 656345 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :each symbol has a weight < 1349169543 611969 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's really a tuple < 1349169571 973023 :atriq!~nathan@host-2-99-92-60.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a way to search a github thing? < 1349169583 231037 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. < 1349169590 153874 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, github? < 1349169595 107330 :atriq!~nathan@host-2-99-92-60.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No < 1349169602 681099 :atriq!~nathan@host-2-99-92-60.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A thing on github < 1349169606 293277 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION sips gumbo
< 1349169782 892986 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :atriq: GitHub's own "advanced search" form at least at some point. < 1349169789 335332 :atriq!~nathan@host-2-99-92-60.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay < 1349169819 631663 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You need some kind of a "repo:foo/bar" specifier and then tell it to search from source code too. < 1349169872 697154 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/search and the bits about "Code Search". < 1349170133 238752 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :atriq: I actually have a private git server < 1349170138 153391 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could set up a web interface < 1349170145 386186 :atriq!~nathan@host-2-99-92-60.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it's okay < 1349170503 885132 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :arrrrrrh < 1349170512 914574 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was too easy < 1349170525 426912 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I forgot about nested loops < 1349170556 475373 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how the hell can a brainfuck interpreter in thue account for nested loop? < 1349170581 743051 :mig22!~miguelort@bb116-14-184-160.singnet.com.sg JOIN :#esoteric < 1349170588 401259 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in order to "jump to the matching ]" I usually have a variable that count how deep in nested loops the ip is < 1349170595 829270 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but thue has no variables < 1349170648 169220 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arc_Koen: I was thinking of a string rewriting grammar that uses a term rewriting system < 1349170653 403128 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but on a tree of weighted values < 1349170667 714374 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :with conditions on the weights, and a pattern from the tree < 1349170697 131573 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the resulting term and also an update of the current state of the weight. < 1349170762 677110 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :condition | pattern -> replacement[state] < 1349170776 177632 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :state can be ++, --, or a numeric expression of the input weights < 1349170813 719209 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :replacement is a result of tokens from the input patterns capture symbols < 1349170831 4237 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure I know what you are talking about < 1349170837 448164 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :condition is any numeric expression < 1349170881 340851 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :a + b | "a -> b" -> ab [a + b] < 1349170908 718487 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :transforms an -> into an addition of 2 weights < 1349171225 781805 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about http://esolangs.org/wiki/Definer < 1349171391 798457 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not quite < 1349171395 387587 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1349171401 309829 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :term rewriting though < 1349171782 727298 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1349172034 824619 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1349172037 825106 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1349172038 19998 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Client Quit < 1349172256 917916 :carado!~user4539@2a01:e35:2e3d:3ef0:6ef0:49ff:fe73:1fd0 JOIN :#esoteric < 1349172283 121786 :carado!~user4539@2a01:e35:2e3d:3ef0:6ef0:49ff:fe73:1fd0 QUIT :Client Quit < 1349172297 944553 :carado!~user4539@2a01:e35:2e3d:3ef0:6ef0:49ff:fe73:1fd0 JOIN :#esoteric < 1349172524 880108 :atriq!~nathan@host-2-99-92-60.as13285.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1349174231 757346 :jiella!~jiella@cs27103076.pp.htv.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1349174825 885542 :barts!~barts@87.174.170.247 PRIVMSG #esoteric :has anyone here tried programming the Z80 or one of its derivatives? < 1349174886 764805 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've heard it mentioned. < 1349174892 820673 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't remember by whom. < 1349175534 107850 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've done it a bit. < 1349175542 339473 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I am under the impression that others have, too. < 1349175544 504398 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastelogs z80 < 1349175567 363391 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://zem.fi/rfk86/ <- mainly I just made that. < 1349175583 678707 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.6799 < 1349175602 214115 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastelogs z80 < 1349175611 416453 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.19994 < 1349175639 704353 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I do know mooz did quite a lot for the calculator, but he's no longer here. < 1349175696 583488 :barts!~barts@87.174.170.247 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which one have you programmed? < 1349175707 70496 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just the original. < 1349176098 990137 :barts_!~barts@p57AEA855.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1349176113 965055 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1349176174 709946 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1349176241 719234 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais253 < 1349176243 726409 :ais253!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523 < 1349176296 690491 :barts!~barts@87.174.170.247 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1349176310 736633 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gumbo < 1349176564 835930 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1349176871 989977 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I'm hungry. < 1349177680 890395 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1349177723 883708 :carado!~user4539@2a01:e35:2e3d:3ef0:6ef0:49ff:fe73:1fd0 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1349177973 778228 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1349178079 931241 :carado!~user4539@2a01:e35:2e3d:3ef0:6ef0:49ff:fe73:1fd0 JOIN :#esoteric < 1349178616 929317 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1349179143 27950 :TeruFSX!~TeruFSX@65-128-188-237.mpls.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1349179969 755294 :ogrom!~nask@gprs-inet-65-111.elisa.ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1349180109 72774 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1349180148 36734 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1349180224 909754 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1349180395 633223 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, the thue article doesn't say anything about comments < 1349180554 682346 :ogrom!~nask@gprs-inet-65-111.elisa.ee QUIT :Quit: begone < 1349180761 234129 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've seen #::=# as a kind of a line-comment indicator. < 1349180767 890962 :TeruFSX!~TeruFSX@65-128-188-237.mpls.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1349180772 329637 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably with the restriction that there won't be any #s ever. < 1349180778 935856 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1349180779 131127 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. < 1349180787 180159 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's one of those comments-inside-the-language-semantics thing < 1349180798 550841 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like DO NOT put comment here in INTERCAL < 1349180827 978033 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, yeah < 1349180835 508561 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's definitely a problem with input though < 1349180916 642756 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically if the input contains anything else than +-><[]., my interpreter will either not know of it (so it will halt because no rule can be applied) or will recognize it as injected code and then it can do about anything < 1349180982 523930 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a language for well-behaving users. < 1349181067 932081 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1349181073 544649 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I could have an ip go through the brainfuck program before execution starts, and remove anything that's not a brainfuck instruction - but still, willingly injected code can trigger any rule < 1349181254 894573 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, my thue interpreter selects the rules to apply at random amongst the not-yet-tester-this-turn rules, but I guess the brainfuck interpreter in thue would be way faster if the thue interpreter tried rules in the order they are sorted, and brought the chosen rule on top of the rules list < 1349181317 309172 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for instance if the brainfuck interpreter is currently interpreting a '+', only the '+'related rules will be applicable so trying all the other rules is a waste of time < 1349181905 209968 :nortti-!nortti@ie.freebnc.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1349182588 54624 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1349183031 51863 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1349183034 963090 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1349183053 117419 :nortti-!znc@ie.freebnc.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1349183480 970997 :barts_!~barts@p57AEA855.dip.t-dialin.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1349183558 379024 :aloril_!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1349183617 659259 :barts_!~barts@p57AEA855.dip.t-dialin.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the most esoteric language? < 1349183628 812197 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :eodermdrome < 1349183634 539293 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome < 1349183636 426863 :barts_!~barts@p57AEA855.dip.t-dialin.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1349183638 97404 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) < 1349183649 634663 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a personal opinion < 1349183651 848262 :barts_!~barts@p57AEA855.dip.t-dialin.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've already been welcomed, but thanks Arc_Koen < 1349183658 736385 :barts_!~barts@p57AEA855.dip.t-dialin.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do you hold such an opinion? < 1349183664 985141 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think there is a "most" esoteric language, they are all esoteric in their own way < 1349183668 920637 :barts_!~barts@p57AEA855.dip.t-dialin.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming you are the person of this personal opinion < 1349183682 401087 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :eodermdrome uses graphs as a way to program < 1349183701 110225 :barts_!~barts@p57AEA855.dip.t-dialin.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is very interesting < 1349183705 235407 :barts_!~barts@p57AEA855.dip.t-dialin.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it process graphs? < 1349183718 993935 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrm, I don't know enough about it, actually < 1349183731 218802 :barts_!~barts@p57AEA855.dip.t-dialin.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i heard lisp could be implemented with a machine that does graph reduction. < 1349183733 274591 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :'s too esoteric for me :-) < 1349183746 428300 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a graph-rewriting language. < 1349183759 964182 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :have a look at http://esolangs.org/wiki/Eodermdrome < 1349183771 320364 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or hear what fizzie has to say, he knows much more than me) < 1349183782 460173 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a state graph, and rules for rewriting parts of it. < 1349183794 7003 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the article is fine too. < 1349183863 833403 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's really kind of like Thue except with (unlabeled) graphs. < 1349183908 343337 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :talking about thue... http://sprunge.us/HhXO < 1349183971 637120 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's 180 lines long already, I still have to do instructions > < . , and it's probably full of bugs because IT'S NOT HUMANLY READABLE < 1349184084 78996 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@91.234.37.57 JOIN :#esoteric < 1349184133 427704 :barts_!~barts@p57AEA855.dip.t-dialin.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i just read up on it < 1349184134 526596 :barts_!~barts@p57AEA855.dip.t-dialin.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's nice < 1349184163 511126 :carado!~user4539@2a01:e35:2e3d:3ef0:6ef0:49ff:fe73:1fd0 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1349184243 67648 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1349184244 408862 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could possibly second the Eodermdrome opinion on esotericness, as ill-defined as that is. < 1349184271 775674 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I do hope you're talking about eodermdrome when saying "it's nice") < 1349184410 864558 :barts_!~barts@p57AEA855.dip.t-dialin.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1349184448 780384 :barts_!~barts@p57AEA855.dip.t-dialin.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or i might be talking about sending digital signals in analog carriers via amplitude modulation < 1349184451 841913 :barts_!~barts@p57AEA855.dip.t-dialin.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'll never know < 1349184457 501973 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It possibly loses some appreciability points from the fact that it's still lacking an interpreter, and there aren't that many programs written in it. < 1349184480 232058 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Compare to something like Befunge which is being used daily in mission-critical applications all over the globe. < 1349184485 134371 :barts_!~barts@p57AEA855.dip.t-dialin.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but does it have eclipse support < 1349184507 448277 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps someone should write a plugin. < 1349184511 386747 :barts_!~barts@p57AEA855.dip.t-dialin.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1349184534 825398 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: What's your opinion on the productivity and popularity and efficientness and such of Befunge? < 1349184535 710611 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: you just want to say " you can't make if a function is < 1349184544 422523 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(He's written in it.) < 1349184555 686237 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: I don't think I want to say *that*. < 1349184556 346117 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: that's underload code in there, then < 1349184571 49868 :barts_!~barts@p57AEA855.dip.t-dialin.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: what's your opinion on the productivity and popularity and efficientness and such of peptides? < 1349184590 803617 :barts_!~barts@p57AEA855.dip.t-dialin.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)) < 1349184599 677248 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think we should get rid of them. < 1349184604 304990 :aloril_!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1349184607 445129 :barts_!~barts@p57AEA855.dip.t-dialin.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :too mainstream ???? < 1349184619 407060 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :What have the peptides ever done for us? < 1349184622 984622 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :^source < 1349184623 356503 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://git.zem.fi/fungot/blob/HEAD:/fungot.b98 < 1349184625 208243 :nortti-!znc@ie.freebnc.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1349184974 828601 :barts_!~barts@p57AEA855.dip.t-dialin.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :has it just reproduced < 1349184976 599603 :barts_!~barts@p57AEA855.dip.t-dialin.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's naughty < 1349185164 705377 :jiella!~jiella@cs27103076.pp.htv.fi QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1349185789 217230 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1349185957 993440 :carado!~user4539@2a01:e35:2e3d:3ef0:6ef0:49ff:fe73:1fd0 JOIN :#esoteric < 1349186201 733185 :mig22!~miguelort@bb116-14-184-160.singnet.com.sg QUIT :Quit: mig22 < 1349187250 577740 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1349187388 330291 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1349187949 590709 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Core http://edition.cnn.com/2012/10/01/tech/mantle-earth-drill-mission/index.html?hpt=butt < 1349188889 492434 :nortti-!nortti@ie.freebnc.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1349189118 67650 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Quit: Arc_Koen < 1349189467 111965 :carado!~user4539@2a01:e35:2e3d:3ef0:6ef0:49ff:fe73:1fd0 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1349190650 646901 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1349190938 105828 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@91.234.37.57 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1349191902 244188 :jiella!~jiella@cs27103076.pp.htv.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1349192318 724892 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-97-151-112.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1349192340 786967 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-97-151-112.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages? < 1349192340 981521 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, no messages today. < 1349192484 674257 :kinoSi!~kinosi@27-96-32-84.ipq.jp QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1349192511 856781 :kinoSi!~kinosi@27-96-32-84.ipq.jp JOIN :#esoteric < 1349192684 573367 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages < 1349192684 806729 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't have any new messages. < 1349192687 521674 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages? < 1349192687 716551 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, no messages today. < 1349192703 319624 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell Sgeo honk < 1349192703 514552 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can tell yourself! < 1349192717 842675 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell lambdabot HONK < 1349192718 37588 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice try ;) < 1349193173 951868 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-97-151-112.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1349193183 186084 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-97-151-112.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo is Gamzee? < 1349193249 606058 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :honk HONK honk HONK :o) < 1349193314 534148 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ion: i like the fact that they're doing a $1 billion mission to "answer questions about the origins and evolution of life" < 1349194156 975701 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-97-151-112.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, Homestuck fans have raised $2000000 for a video game that comes out in 2014. < 1349194158 367504 :barts_!~barts@p57AEA855.dip.t-dialin.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell Sgeo honk < 1349194158 562520 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1349194161 367149 :barts_!~barts@p57AEA855.dip.t-dialin.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@massages < 1349194161 565323 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't have any new messages. < 1349194163 953256 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-97-151-112.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you make of that? < 1349194170 702335 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages? < 1349194170 897091 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. < 1349194193 936432 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1349194209 634279 :barts_!~barts@p57AEA855.dip.t-dialin.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't have any new massages. < 1349194629 343377 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messeges < 1349194629 540136 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't have any new messages. < 1349194655 379908 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders if lambdabot checks if the edit distance is below some threshold or something
< 1349194670 498650 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :compared to the string 'messages', that is < 1349194689 746122 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like 0 video games. < 1349194696 639714 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: It allows up to two edits, but only if the parse is unambiguous. < 1349194719 860568 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-97-151-112.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, I thought you liked Super Mario Bros? < 1349194741 850945 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pime < 1349194745 120945 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Local time for fizzie is Tue Oct 2 19:19:02 2012 < 1349194751 59932 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, that's not what I meant; what I meant was. < 1349194754 101635 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pixx < 1349194754 297575 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pong < 1349194757 775040 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :But: < 1349194761 971876 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pike < 1349194762 167447 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you meant: dice ping time wiki < 1349194792 406645 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the game I came closest to liking was legend of zelda: link's awakening on gameboy < 1349194831 699997 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The @pime result shows it's enough for there to be a unique command with the shortest edit distance, as long as that's <= 2.) < 1349194846 101783 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :also super mario bros 2 < 1349194861 799358 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-97-151-112.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lost Levels or USA? < 1349194868 458372 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :USA < 1349194904 107858 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: Or I'm not entirely sure whether it's exactly edit distance or Hamming distance; and it's complicated by the fact that unique prefixes of commands are accepted too. < 1349194910 502016 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was really something super mario usa < 1349194916 107385 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :^super mario 2 < 1349194943 633775 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ah, okay < 1349194945 422913 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wasn't perfect though.. < 1349194956 540217 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ssages < 1349194956 735945 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't have any new messages. < 1349194965 75294 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose it's edit distance since it seems to allow deletions. < 1349194979 354089 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :@bamessages < 1349194979 551405 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't have any new messages. < 1349195003 317292 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :But note that: < 1349195004 210742 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messag < 1349195004 406135 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you meant: messages messages? < 1349195019 241103 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even though it has only one edit-distance-2 expansion (the one without ?). < 1349195026 928821 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because of the no-typos-but-prefix handling. < 1349195038 462425 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it's not really the quality of the game itself, but the lies the game helps your mind momentarily tell itself < 1349195059 994636 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@massag < 1349195060 273837 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknown command, try @list < 1349195065 238688 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@massage < 1349195065 435263 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :barts_ said 15m 7s ago: honk < 1349195073 276934 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats what i think i enjoy in fiction < 1349195084 411286 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@massages < 1349195084 607998 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't have any new messages. < 1349195093 359297 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :@massage? < 1349195093 555968 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you meant: messages messages? < 1349195107 344403 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, right < 1349195196 413036 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess that with your eyes, you can see yourself and you can see others < 1349195224 906428 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :with your ears you can hear yourself and you can hear others.. etc etc.. but with your mind you can hear your thoughts but you can't hear any others < 1349195245 243659 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's so bizzare < 1349195319 3500 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1349195331 299504 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :so in a video game you see this sprite and you can say that sprite is me, everything else isn't < 1349195570 516003 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess you just have to be in the right mood, like with anything < 1349195597 975405 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1349195649 734511 :barts_!~barts@p57AEA855.dip.t-dialin.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :link's awakening was really fun < 1349195653 818671 :barts_!~barts@p57AEA855.dip.t-dialin.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i got stuck at some point < 1349195662 417323 :barts_!~barts@p57AEA855.dip.t-dialin.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it took me years to figure out how to get past < 1349195673 320572 :barts_!~barts@p57AEA855.dip.t-dialin.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i h8 open plan games for this < 1349195698 919560 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :like if you're sitting there thinking about video games as some philosophical metaphor like i am then you probably need a break from them < 1349195774 663231 :atrapado!~aa@188.127.180.11 JOIN :#esoteric < 1349195788 933743 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1349196326 905462 :barts!~barts@p57AEA855.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1349196392 208577 :Jafet1!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1349196393 380308 :aaaaaa!~aa@188.127.180.11 JOIN :#esoteric < 1349196499 35371 :atrapado!~aa@188.127.180.11 QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1349196507 615888 :aaaaaa!~aa@188.127.180.11 NICK :atrapado < 1349196527 383997 :barts_!~barts@p57AEA855.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1349196529 772051 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1349196675 829773 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :barts: What point dod you get stuck at? < 1349196683 516994 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Link's Awakening < 1349197329 415246 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-97-151-112.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was a Scottish-Norwegian war? < 1349197440 516916 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably < 1349197446 762477 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-97-151-112.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This < 1349197447 717606 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-97-151-112.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why < 1349197450 485432 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-97-151-112.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why this < 1349197453 432446 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-97-151-112.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh god < 1349197457 364025 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-97-151-112.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm tumblring on IRC < 1349197471 659536 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :if nothing else, I think they would've been at war during WW2 < 1349197483 850033 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-97-151-112.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, there was a war called the Scottish-Norwegian war < 1349197488 706121 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-97-151-112.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the 13th century < 1349197529 123465 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it was *called* that? so it wasn't actually Scotland and Norway at war? < 1349197556 44028 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-97-151-112.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it was both < 1349198317 427393 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1349198328 304255 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1349198331 727718 :augur!~augur@129-2-129-33.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1349198332 822713 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-97-151-112.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1349198382 841123 :augur!~augur@129-2-129-33.wireless.umd.edu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1349198407 472256 :augur!~augur@129-2-129-33.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1349198604 661379 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1349199643 812459 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: say something funny < 1349199644 721807 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: sicp 1ed has the pattern matcher would close over the value of the current < 1349199709 473806 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, say something sad < 1349199710 131231 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: and you can use almost anything as an excuse < 1349199718 173790 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-97-151-112.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, I'm still brb'ing < 1349199724 873256 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-97-151-112.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guess I'll brb some more < 1349199727 372081 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, i said 'sad' not 'uncomfortable' < 1349199728 132389 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: many hellos!!! fnord head on fnord. < 1349199761 464760 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: say something fnarfful < 1349199762 147111 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: wife thought it might be possible to use 8-bit values in colourmap. :) < 1349199777 134736 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :silly wife < 1349199912 946420 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, the whole idea is beyond bizarre. < 1349199923 939548 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :8-bit values, in colourmap, with fungot's reputation? < 1349199924 639055 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: that's what she said... i know where jesus the monster truck? < 1349199979 374686 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was it actually fungot that the monster truck there? < 1349199980 4573 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: eval ( eq? programmer riastradh)) < 1349199982 590815 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, somewhere in the middle east i should thing < 1349199983 180900 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: does anyone know a short bf program for 10 million steps? < 1349199985 322044 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*think < 1349200048 638372 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1349200049 62627 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube < 1349200070 189644 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :"irc", was that from #perl? < 1349200134 709874 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-97-151-112.as13285.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1349200298 926228 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: #esoteric, #scheme and a tiny bit from IRCnet's #douglasadams. < 1349200304 657216 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style irc < 1349200305 31799 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: irc (IRC logs of freenode/#esoteric, freenode/#scheme and ircnet/#douglasadams) < 1349200321 509547 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Riastradh is/was a #scheme regular. < 1349200360 356929 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And eq? is/was (but most likely is) a Scheme predicate. < 1349200519 480277 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that I know anything about scheme, but yes < 1349200636 207888 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-97-151-112.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1349200710 510423 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :!forth s" gforth" environment? [if] type [then] < 1349200711 155177 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :0.7.0 < 1349200718 313041 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Just checking the version.) < 1349200787 754558 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :gforth development isn't terribly breezy, 0.7.0 is the latest and it's from Nov 2008. < 1349200853 511314 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about kforth < 1349201003 796759 :nortti!nortti@dsl-hkibrasgw3-ff25c000-52.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't support 'char' thing but is otherwise nice < 1349201614 708685 :nortti-!nortti@ie.freebnc.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1349202515 425121 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric : Phantom_Hoover: does anyone know a short bf program for 10 million steps? < 1349202516 112821 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: i think we have a shortage of paths but is much more interesting < 1349202636 863408 :Taneb!~nathan@host-2-97-151-112.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1349202645 207881 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-97-151-112.as13285.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1349202710 18399 :Taneb!~nathan@host-2-97-151-112.as13285.net NICK :atriq < 1349202718 640759 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1349202866 247814 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sorry, did you say "a short bf program"? that sounded wrong < 1349202892 423078 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brainfuck? < 1349202895 678920 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Short? < 1349202907 515273 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf +[+]. < 1349203070 445549 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Short, but isn't likely to run for exactly ten million steps. < 1349203095 227527 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And fungot can't output the \0 character since that doesn't go through IRC. < 1349203096 278166 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: i'm annoyed by both. technically it's not necessary in russian in that context?). i believe the internet works on cr/ lf is the most basic tasks < 1349203134 560035 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there are some reasonably short but "useful" (well...) programs inside that bot. < 1349203138 50819 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :^show < 1349203138 476234 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :echo reverb rev rot13 rev2 fib wc ul cho choo pow2 source help hw srmlebac uenlsbcmra scramble unscramble asc ord prefixes tmp test celebrate wiki chr ha rainbow rainbow2 welcome me < 1349203152 354790 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The echo/rev kind of things are pretty simple to do. < 1349203169 815355 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :^echo Do you hear an echo? < 1349203170 323543 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you hear an echo? Do you hear an echo? < 1349203632 828164 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :^srmlebac Hello? What is this? < 1349203633 278342 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hlo hti hs?its aW?le < 1349203640 701099 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, scrambler < 1349203720 637843 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :^scramble scramble < 1349203721 37947 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :srmlebac < 1349203748 661162 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :^scramble uenlsbcmra < 1349203749 125147 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :unscramble < 1349203753 829235 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're all kind of related. < 1349203766 389751 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's mostly about bouncing between the two ends of the string. < 1349203770 40130 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :^show scramble < 1349203770 493062 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>,[>,]<[<]>[.>>]<[>>]<2[.<2] < 1349203801 836643 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :^show srmlebac < 1349203802 302844 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>,[>,]<[<]>[.>>]<[>>]<2[.<2] < 1349203813 645263 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, they're even that close. < 1349203830 668800 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also these must be old, because it hasn't combined the >>s. < 1349203834 165281 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1349203865 693590 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :^def scramble bf >>,[>,]<[<]>[.>>]<[>>]<<[.<<] < 1349203866 50656 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Defined. < 1349203868 734357 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :^show scramble < 1349203869 174418 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :>2,[>,]<[<]>[.>2]<[>2]<2[.<2] < 1349203890 681839 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There, it's a bit shorter. < 1349203910 997389 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :>> is exactly the same length as >2 < 1349203917 319905 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, well, I meant in memory. < 1349203929 670878 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The ^show output is just a textual dump. < 1349204019 819936 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :In memory it's in two-cell pairs where one cell gives the command (<> or +- or [ or ] or , or .) and the other the argument (count for <> or +-, the jump destination for [ or ]), so >2 is two cells whereas >> is four. < 1349204057 727508 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1349204081 10564 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :^def tmp bf ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ < 1349204081 429103 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Defined. < 1349204084 50755 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :^show tmp < 1349204084 507985 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :+106 < 1349204125 720084 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :From what I recall, ^show selects +/- (or ) based on which would give the smaller number; internally it's always as-if the command were + or >. < 1349204139 794546 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It has a wrapping tape.) < 1349204945 890731 :carado!~user4539@2a01:e35:2e3d:3ef0:6ef0:49ff:fe73:1fd0 JOIN :#esoteric < 1349204958 215248 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1349205403 451933 :atriq!~nathan@host-2-97-151-112.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm really proud of Fueue < 1349205592 945350 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :smashing language, old chap < 1349205645 613309 :atriq!~nathan@host-2-97-151-112.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm scarily not old < 1349205661 577019 :atriq!~nathan@host-2-97-151-112.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fermat's Last Theorem has been a theorem for longer than I've been a person < 1349205705 640698 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You mean forever? < 1349205718 366539 :Slereah!x@ANantes-259-1-223-46.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fermat, that young whippernsapper? < 1349205724 495552 :atriq!~nathan@host-2-97-151-112.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since September 1994, yes. < 1349205759 48198 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was a theorem before it was proved. < 1349205766 944956 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was even *called* a theorem before it was proved. < 1349205776 845825 :atriq!~nathan@host-2-97-151-112.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Both of those are true! < 1349205784 892409 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :atriq is just trying to disguise the fact he's http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ReallySevenHundredYearsOld < 1349205791 776633 :atriq!~nathan@host-2-97-151-112.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My god < 1349205796 382672 :atriq!~nathan@host-2-97-151-112.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a page on TVTropes < 1349205819 202293 :Sanqui!~SankyZNC@unaffiliated/sanky NICK :Sanky < 1349205851 440573 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh, that esolang with the 10% bug was brainfuck < 1349205875 706085 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :a little known fact about brainfuck < 1349205899 241396 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was first a bug in the interpreter that chopped off the first + (hello world starts with 10 of those, and uses the number 10 as a base to generate the characters) < 1349205928 55072 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I worked around that by adding another + and left the modified program as a trap for my future self < 1349205948 773706 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :when run in the corrected interpreter, that program gives a 10% bug in the other direction < 1349206021 79093 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1349206217 78711 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I have two solutions to fix thue's input issue < 1349206245 926847 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :1) input one character instead of one line. this way the programmer can make sure to treat characters in a way that doesn't allow code injection < 1349206301 67501 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :2) allow the programmer to define an alphabet to use in the program, and a subset of that alphabet as the input alphabet < 1349206328 862225 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: all brought back because Arc_Koen started doing the bf in thue thing, and I decided to figure out how my last ubuntu upgrade broke my apache config < 1349206427 112470 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :for 2), the alphabet can be something else than the usual ascii - to make it usable on a regular computer you need to "transcribe" your alphabet as ascii (if it's too big, use several chars to code one symbol), and the user's input is in ascii but with a transcription function that transforms it into your input alphabet < 1349206481 540332 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: so I'm your muse? :-) < 1349206586 316148 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: incidentally, the only broken part was that I forgot how to use the thing < 1349206702 7415 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arc_Koen: hmm, I guess :) < 1349206783 377143 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :fwiw, I didn't write that bf interpreter, but it is written in thue and I have no real idea how it works... thought it would be interesting to try and figure it out while debugging its breakage < 1349206804 751193 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1349206871 113381 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arc_Koen: (1) is what Itflabtijtslwi does. < 1349206892 923042 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION realizes he did not have to think about how to spell that this time
< 1349206942 316963 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :it flabt ijts lwi < 1349207094 968019 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: if you really want to debug a bf interpreter in thue I'd be glad to give you mine once it's over < 1349207104 861750 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's kind of a boring thing to program < 1349207117 775355 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the idea is *very* simple, but it takes a loooooot of substitution rules < 1349207230 721405 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think when I'm done I'll try to program in Definer, or another similar string-rewriting language that does allow for "variables" < 1349207238 413286 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, like, pattern-matching < 1349207297 556893 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think mod_rewrite uses PCRE < 1349207348 786611 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: did thutubot have a bf implementation? < 1349207385 914106 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance in the interpreter if I want to have some symbols travel through others, I say something like "if a symbol is enclosed in { } brackets, then it moves to the left", but I have to write the substition rules for all symbols {+}, {-}, {>}, etc., for all symbols they can meet 0{+}::={+}0, 1{+}::={+}1, 0{-}::={-}0, etc < 1349207399 329005 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and to make things worse it's completely irreadable < 1349207415 379822 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(espacially if one of the symbols is a : or a =) < 1349207498 449743 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like how i made the first loop in /// before i found the copying twice trick < 1349207506 109011 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, avoid using : and = then :P < 1349207541 250093 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: well i'm kind of short in symbols and I don't want to use words too much < 1349207550 485861 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait, that was even more insane. < 1349207560 944304 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :an incredibly verbose interpreter would be a bit funny though < 1349207567 163249 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use = as the operator that checks if a cell is equal to 0 < 1349207586 29759 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and debuggable, if it's constantly explaining exactly what it's doing) < 1349207606 363064 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, if you had said that sooner I might have made it completely full of words < 1349207641 87621 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, even input would have had to be in the form increment decrement move left move right input output begin loop end loop < 1349207653 45008 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but now I've written too much to want to restart anything < 1349207653 448576 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm you could say the first /// loop was attempting to use a thue method in a language not suited for it. < 1349207671 63068 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :does /// use string-rewriting? < 1349207676 185769 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1349207693 26067 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's even simpler than thue. < 1349207696 529371 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, /// eats everything up until the third / after applying a rewrite rule? < 1349207718 918783 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or before... < 1349208143 406516 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically /// is both string-rewriting and self-modifying code < 1349208234 533081 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the latter the only way to do real flow control < 1349208297 301191 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and looping requires quine-like techniques < 1349208661 126826 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :/// is the best language < 1349208880 877379 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :erh, earlier today we told someone that was eodermdrome < 1349208890 604331 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :THAT WAS EARLIER TODAY < 1349208919 742523 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1349208932 838961 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, /// is already implemented. < 1349208967 469917 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I might decide to implement /// soon < 1349209003 327248 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :there might even be a more efficient implementation than the perl one. possibly by User:Nthern. < 1349209016 902220 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION never tested that.
< 1349209040 900864 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :more efficient than perl? wow! < 1349209067 834650 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the perl one keeps scanning the string from the beginning, whether or not there can be new matches there < 1349209080 350320 :atriq!~nathan@host-2-97-151-112.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1349209118 454615 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :for some substitutions that's gonna hurt. < 1349209169 667343 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was just a quick hack to get a working implementations, after all. < 1349209173 828492 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*-s < 1349209202 918986 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just _barely_ manages to run the BCT interpreter without hitting one of perl's internal limits. < 1349209240 742348 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(regexp recursion depth) < 1349209387 897352 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :afaik Nthern is the only other person who has succeeded at programming in /// < 1349209394 717044 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, what is it that uses recursion in those regexps? < 1349209467 697962 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :s!^/((?:[^/\\]|\\.)*)/((?:[^/\\]|\\.)*)/!!s is the one which tended to crash < 1349209538 261649 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :couldn't you make it [^/\\]+ to match longer chunks? < 1349209548 686439 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is possible it doesn't use recursion in all perl versions, i think the ?: 's were an attempt to simplify it < 1349209575 471802 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: except the BCT interpreter uses only / and \ characters :P < 1349209597 448111 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :aah, sounds appropriately evil < 1349209632 267378 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seemed like the logical thing to aim for, after getting basic "readable" looping going < 1349209650 596083 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: so my brother drops a pair of shorts in the clothes washer and just leaves them there, i don't even know when... makes no reference to it... this is what i live with < 1349209659 941762 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's after initial syntactic desugaring btw. < 1349209680 136651 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :after syntactic salting? < 1349209680 854339 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: HOW DESPICABLY EVIL < 1349209708 963939 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's also possible to optimize some Perl regexps a whole lot with suitably placed (?>...)s. (It's a kind of a forced never-backtrack construct.) < 1349209715 990700 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION always checks the washing machine for forgotten clothes before using it.
< 1349209752 789331 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: but they havent been washed... evidenced by their dryness < 1349209757 222517 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: i recall the perl version i used wasn't the newest one < 1349209773 443354 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: HOW DESPICABLY EVIL < 1349209824 241614 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's possible (?>...) is reasonably new; it's quite far down in the manual, at least. < 1349209886 21904 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The *+ construct can be an easier way and I think it's earlier too. < 1349209900 805869 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*+ ? < 1349209901 640277 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: personally i don't even care.. i wash my stuff at laundromat lately.. but my mom comes along saying "can you turn on washing machine for me? running out of clean towels" because the knob is busted she can't actually turn on the machine herself < 1349209939 993373 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i tell her about the shorts and she just carries them off into her room.. "ok ive emptied it" < 1349209953 993853 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: *+ and ++ and ?+ and {n}+ and so on are the "possessive" versions of the quantifiers. < 1349209975 902564 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: "Match as much as possible and never give anything back" is what they do. < 1349209977 358673 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :so.. if i get depressed sometimes.. it's not baseless < 1349209987 437347 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. so it's not just * and + combined < 1349210025 755156 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :/a++a/ e.g. can't ever match, because a++ gobbles all the a's. < 1349210094 911820 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that I know how well the regex engine can do without the hints in your original example, and whether the potential backtracking points matter. But it's a case where you know exactly what to match. < 1349210140 47475 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: hypocritically speaking, i'm pretty sure a healthy person wouldn't be depressed by such events. < 1349210197 536922 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"For instance, the typical "match a double-quoted string" problem can be most efficiently performed when written as: /"(?:[^"\\]++|\\.)*+"/ as we know that if the final quote does not match, backtracking will not help." (perlre example on them.) < 1349210200 256239 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ain't noone healthy in this house < 1349210230 559711 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :although perhaps it's a sign that we're at least a bit on the autistic spectrum < 1349210252 379564 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol hypocritically speaking < 1349210255 437586 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(disclaimer: DO NOT USE FOR MEDICAL ADVICE) < 1349210256 892548 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no < 1349210267 10391 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :regexps are awesome for writing gobbledygook like "(?:[^"\\]++|\\.)*+" < 1349210348 728169 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: that _does_ look eerily similar < 1349210470 603438 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ironically for me facing my fears means doing someone elses laundry < 1349210589 938200 :TeruFSX!~TeruFSX@65-128-188-237.mpls.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1349210862 83651 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm < 1349210889 528339 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :a fueue itnerpreter in thue would actually be shorter that a brainfuck one < 1349210911 24531 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :cause fueue has only one structure (that is, code and date are together) < 1349211006 226200 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: your proof that fueue is turing complete, does it work if numbers are bounded? < 1349211078 308303 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh screw that I can do it with unbounded numbers *rolls his sleeves up* < 1349211087 417053 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 64^3 < 1349211088 448808 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 262144 < 1349211202 793918 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 64 `xor` 3 < 1349211203 753437 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Ambiguous type variable `a' in the constraint: < 1349211203 948045 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : `Data.Bits.Bits a' < 1349211203 948251 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : a... < 1349211211 214350 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :67 < 1349211224 946689 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: aww, changing * to *+ didn't help, at least with the perl version installed here (5.10.0) < 1349211344 693654 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :> Data.Bits.xor 3 4 < 1349211345 724951 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Ambiguous type variable `a' in the constraint: < 1349211345 920048 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : `Data.Bits.Bits a' < 1349211345 920248 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : a... < 1349211351 269630 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wtf < 1349211367 795533 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 64 `xor` 3 :: Word < 1349211368 766667 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 67 < 1349211370 290501 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :It works fine with ghc/ghci < 1349211377 152161 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arc_Koen: my proof doesn't use number arithmetic at all, there's a lonely 1 used for a delaying trick < 1349211389 585945 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t xor < 1349211390 117027 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh < 1349211390 552451 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Bits a) => a -> a -> a < 1349211402 522760 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean YOU DON'T NEED NUMBERS at ALL??? < 1349211418 112675 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shocking < 1349211423 364492 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed, that 1 could probably be changed to something else :) < 1349211447 907927 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :putStrLn "hello" `xor` putStrLn "world" < 1349211498 851684 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arc_Koen: it's only using the functional parts of fueue in an essential way < 1349211506 766734 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :arc_koen: class (Eq a, Num a) => Bits a < 1349211588 213652 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: ghci uses the extended defaulting option, which defaults numeric types in more general circumstances < 1349211651 250520 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: btw http://oerjan.nvg.org/esoteric/slashes/longsubst.sss is a simple program triggering the bug < 1349211663 377872 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, ghc does error out < 1349211682 852890 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it _should_ print hello if working < 1349211708 89923 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and some newlines, i didn't bother removing them < 1349211712 894093 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: so i'm gonna make a verbose thue fueue interpreter < 1349211723 955119 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arc_Koen: have fun! < 1349211742 15259 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fun? I'm doing it for SCIENCE < 1349211755 888573 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arc_Koen: well you need numbers for output, but you can consider it TC even without if you consider final queue contents < 1349211756 811046 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: If I can manage to remember, I'll try some things out when I'm not typing via the phone. < 1349211770 218996 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, yeah, ok < 1349211826 552879 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: would brainfuck be tc with cell contents being unbounded, but without the - instruction? < 1349211848 916157 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm thinking it doesn't change anything < 1349211867 281785 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, you can have a cell you call "zero" which you increment instead of decrementing every other cell < 1349211907 235775 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arc_Koen: as long as the tape still is unbounded, it might work < 1349211919 999943 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm I don't think we need that < 1349211924 893950 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance take 4-cell brainfuck < 1349211946 775863 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't use the fourth cell, except to emulate - < 1349211971 140516 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(so if you're in the first cell, instead of - you write >+>+>+) < 1349211984 681959 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well >+>+>+>) < 1349211994 827637 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arc_Koen: um you can never get information out of a cell if you cannot get it back to zero < 1349212003 174204 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, that's true < 1349212005 531847 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :other than that it is nonzero < 1349212047 193089 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so how would it work if the tape was unbounded? < 1349212112 832389 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that case there ought to be a way to move data further on the tape, to the still zero parts < 1349212183 814000 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you would encode the cells of a brainfuck with - as sequences of 0's and nonzeros < 1349212202 563186 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1349212204 673398 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1349212221 600120 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net QUIT :Quit: Poulet! < 1349212235 815251 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm I'm not convinced though < 1349212251 775925 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i'm reminded of Sceql < 1349212440 855481 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1349212441 579205 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway i'd imagine a memory layout like 0 ...arbitrary non-zero trash... 0 first bf cell 0 second bf cell 0 ... last bf cell 0 0 ... < 1349212473 964817 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm make that 0 0 between the trash and first cell too < 1349212502 864078 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and a 0 0 somewhere around the current cell. < 1349212541 754147 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... I think apache does potentially evil things with leading slashes in uris < 1349212888 406466 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Use with extreme caution, as it may result in loop." :) < 1349212957 891774 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it could if there wasn't a limit on the number of matching rules and if the server didn't run out of memory so quickly) < 1349213033 446369 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :...arbitrary non-zero trash... 0 (0 (1 1*))* 0 (0 (1 1*))* 0 0 0... < 1349213092 347024 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well gnight < 1349213111 359302 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :night < 1349213121 304607 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the fueue interpreter might not be shorter than the brainfuck one because it has so much moving around) < 1349213141 345406 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :tricky < 1349213162 807752 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait i've not even finished browsing the logs yet... < 1349213186 507301 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, the 'fadd' function sends a 'check arithm' marker to see if it has correct arguments, then the marker comes back as 'ok arithm' or 'noop' < 1349213204 582169 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's noop then fadd must move through the whole queue < 1349213246 745267 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's ok arithm then it's a nightmare of adding two numbers, then the results still has to move through the whole queue < 1349213265 609441 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if thue had WRAPPING that would be so easy < 1349213325 745824 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I'm not sure it's healthy browsing the logs... it's like every moment you're not on the chan you have to live twice (once out of the chan and once reading the log) < 1349213340 11670 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're gonna get old TWICE AS FAST < 1349213354 853366 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course an easy remedy would be to stay on the chan as often as possible :-) < 1349213357 986511 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAAAAAAAAA < 1349213358 760844 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway bye < 1349213404 116092 :carado!~user4539@2a01:e35:2e3d:3ef0:6ef0:49ff:fe73:1fd0 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1349213491 186825 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell Arc_Koen If you want things "easy", go Thutu or something. (Disclaimer: only lookes at Thutu briefly.) < 1349213491 418834 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1349213494 663505 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got tired of keeping that in the input buffer, waiting for the quit. < 1349213540 80101 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAA you just shifted the balance fo need sleep / got plenty things to do < 1349213540 274580 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arc_Koen: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. < 1349213663 202582 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hum, you know what, thutu can wait < 1349213675 657835 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages < 1349213675 852354 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan said 1d 1h 43m 33s ago: did you mean to remove an a from the kipple truth-machine program? i don't know kipple so... < 1349213676 47329 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie said 3m 4s ago: If you want things "easy", go Thutu or something. (Disclaimer: only lookes at Thutu briefly.) < 1349213689 65948 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Quit: that's dr. turing to you, punk < 1349213751 95192 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's super-promising when you look up an obscure error on Google and the first result is “Pig Latin Reference Manual” < 1349214049 212042 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouyay on'tday aysay < 1349214670 95874 :TeruFSX_!~quassel@65-128-188-237.mpls.qwest.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1349214715 937170 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1349214780 163462 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Keccak won the SHA-3 competition < 1349214855 261104 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.nist.gov/itl/csd/sha-100212.cfm < 1349214877 5589 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, so soon. < 1349214899 472844 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com TOPIC #esoteric :I, for one, welcome our new hash function overlords | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ | http://esolangs.org/wiki < 1349214955 191573 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Keccak does sound like a proper name for an alien overlord. < 1349214967 286181 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :LORD KECCAK. < 1349215000 806914 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Keccak sucks as a palindrome. < 1349215001 1826 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1349215016 811051 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's pronounced "kashyyyk" < 1349216226 977269 :TeruFSX!~TeruFSX@65-128-188-237.mpls.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1349216710 158289 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm. < 1349216718 90049 :atrapado!~aa@188.127.180.11 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1349216723 768634 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is astoundingly difficult to Keccak-hash something right now. < 1349216735 288370 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm looking for an implementation that I can just say “here's a file, what's its hash” < 1349216736 331343 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope. < 1349216760 54879 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my university has a nick cage appreciation society < 1349216772 982946 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hope this is a homestuck joke and not something sincere < 1349216795 164602 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://guyism.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/best-resume-ever.jpeg < 1349216895 280071 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :gregor: Add the future-snapshots repository and install sha3sum. < 1349216907 22338 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perfect! < 1349216912 934510 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :future-snapshots/20131001 should work nicely. < 1349216932 790374 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :The implementation is publicly available, but it's all test suites, no tools. < 1349217200 549522 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should smoke a bowl of hash in honor of this occasion < 1349217739 580970 :jiella!~jiella@cs27103076.pp.htv.fi QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1349218506 208193 :TeruFSX!~TeruFSX@65-128-188-237.mpls.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1349218631 58489 :Jafet1!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1349219224 140500 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :Quit: Zzzzzzzzzzzz < 1349219359 875924 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, it's not a Merkle-Damgård hash. < 1349219915 207968 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1349220020 122291 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-24-31-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: http://keccak.noekeon.org/KeccakReferenceAndOptimized-3.2.zip < 1349220047 242883 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Try using that to get a hash of a file. < 1349220049 176394 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: I dare you. < 1349220100 404203 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-24-31-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ass! < 1349220117 518861 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-24-31-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why would you make the test program something other than a read file and shove it into the hasher? < 1349220230 712896 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-24-31-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, I'm *sure* it's a perfectly reasonable hash algorithm, but the implementation was written by an incompetent. < 1349220261 531385 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're Belgian *shrugs* < 1349220401 589260 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-24-31-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://keccak.noekeon.org/specs_summary.html Well, there's enough you could probably write it yourself. < 1349220557 226913 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :All I was going to do was hash the topic. < 1349220563 344396 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :The joke is long dead by now ;) < 1349220567 13954 :TeruFSX!~TeruFSX@65-128-188-237.mpls.qwest.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1349220595 723066 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-24-31-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still annoyed. < 1349220927 776669 :augur!~augur@129-2-129-33.wireless.umd.edu QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1349221075 485394 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-24-31-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, I'm impressed at how simple this hash algorithm can be. < 1349221592 277010 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-24-31-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :DCB6B8BD29813DA1A9B56667D751A6D444ECFC5B0F67D6EB85DEF9E < 1349221608 338922 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-24-31-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's SHA3-224 of the topic. < 1349221622 636117 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :How 'bout just “I, for one, welcome our new hash function overlords” < 1349221648 249355 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-24-31-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :E581A6F9E364E179B336A2C6D6831D4B50CD7739C7E1565E3EBF2 < 1349221667 732189 :Gregor!codu@codu.org TOPIC #esoteric :I, for one, welcome our new hash function overlords | E581A6F9E364E179B336A2C6D6831D4B50CD7739C7E1565E3EBF2 | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ | http://esolangs.org/wiki < 1349221678 643711 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: How are you computing it? < 1349221691 207149 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :SHA3 looks much more complicated than SHA1 to me. < 1349221706 677705 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-24-31-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Grabbed "readable keccak" and shoved the string into it. < 1349221724 814818 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, *readable*. < 1349221728 580134 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds promising. < 1349221733 727014 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-24-31-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.mjos.fi/dist/readable_keccak.tgz < 1349221744 995159 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-24-31-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's 106 lines of C. < 1349221768 751104 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-24-31-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A bit more if you want to make it useable as a general-purpose library, of course. < 1349221790 50430 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-24-31-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I doubt it'd go over 200 if you don't try optimizing it. < 1349221813 734654 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, it's not so bad. < 1349221820 43447 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It still has a lookup table. :-( < 1349221827 639960 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-24-31-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tiny one though. < 1349222004 585212 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-24-31-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. Part of why the other keccak implementations are complex is that they support all possible parameters of the algorithm... < 1349222018 618204 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-24-31-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I pasted their suffices for the SHA3 ones. < 1349222030 925039 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-24-31-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/their/there/