< 1349481671 4615 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :area man kmc < 1349481754 852024 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that an advice animal or something < 1349481779 290902 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the dangerous new trend putting teens at risk < 1349482096 643106 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1349482551 122012 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i like solitaire kind of games precisely because they're _not_ realtime, thankyouverymuch < 1349482644 446713 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: There's sometimes a clock. < 1349482650 589335 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(For scoring.) < 1349482654 213937 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :blasphemy! < 1349482680 616217 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Faketime Solitaire < 1349482734 954608 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: THE AXIOMS OF SOLITAIRE: 1. Solitaire < 1349482739 363872 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :2. Sloitaire < 1349482745 773052 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :4. Slaloterre < 1349482752 991302 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :5. French-German Solitaire Spanish English Happening Manual < 1349482781 887681 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :siilotare < 1349482828 423903 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well you know oerjan Finnish Solitaire is banned for a reason < 1349482856 761127 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Facetime Solitaire. (Also called 'a mirror'.) < 1349482857 504969 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're too solitary already < 1349482892 476986 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :esiltoria < 1349482905 837648 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :FINNISH SOLITAIRE aka "The Hidden Death". < 1349482914 637923 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finnish Solitaire has killed millions since its founding in 1964. < 1349482944 800096 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? funpuns < 1349482948 449450 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :funpuns? ¯\(°_o)/¯ < 1349482949 162517 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? shachaf < 1349482952 100468 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf sprø som selleri < 1349482955 71141 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What? < 1349483022 473239 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :twah < 1349483078 776773 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :o⃥rjan < 1349483201 758291 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? shachaf < 1349483205 198433 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf sprø som selleri < 1349483961 211986 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1349484024 569907 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1349484096 184019 :Nisstyre-laptop!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre JOIN :#esoteric < 1349484280 873141 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1349485065 95605 :mds2!~user@97-93-98-11.static.mtpk.ca.charter.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1349485295 725299 :mds2!~user@97-93-98-11.static.mtpk.ca.charter.com PART #esoteric :"ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)" < 1349485591 174871 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1349485627 939453 :pumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1349486733 514137 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1349486909 601680 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1349486983 529704 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@cust-101.ktknet.cz QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1349487711 507451 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A lot of the OEM crapware on this computer broke < 1349487726 302032 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But there's one that... well, I think the important part is actually in hardware, so it doesn't really matter < 1349487960 256966 :variable!~root@128.226.240.192 JOIN :#esoteric < 1349487975 192898 :invariable!~root@128.226.240.192 JOIN :#esoteric < 1349487982 506629 :variable!~root@128.226.240.192 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1349487998 576200 :invariable!~root@128.226.240.192 NICK :Guest37703 < 1349488410 317272 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARMv2 seems OK, not as complicated as newer versions, and there does exist the open-source Amber core which is ARMv2. How fast could it run? Does anyone sell ARMv2 at fast speeds? < 1349488552 496789 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Has Amber been tested for compatibility with a real ARMv2? < 1349488567 348109 :aloril_!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1349488734 558145 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1349489154 468648 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh. < 1349489166 853335 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Minesweeper contests don't accept the official version of Minesweeper < 1349489188 418313 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wut < 1349489188 725109 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there something wrong with the official version? < 1349489221 748249 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, yes < 1349489231 38982 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.minesweeper.info/wiki/Board_Cycles < 1349489320 450349 :aloril_!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1349489325 498349 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Winmine (the name of the official version) uses a smaller than theoretically possible number of boards, iiuc < 1349489380 370406 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK now I can see what is wrong, and why the official version should be unacceptable. < 1349489420 855580 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.minesweeper.info/wiki/Winmine_Congress < 1349489441 108930 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Winmine Congress was established in response to controversy over the Dreamboard and Board Cycles. Seven members were elected to resolve these problems. Founded 31 Oct 2002, it dissolved 8 Mar 2004. It has since been superceded by the International Minesweeper Committee. < 1349489693 671039 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :6 years of research to figure out how minesweeper generates boards? < 1349492323 107052 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1349492538 930558 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :One thing I do know about the Windows Minesweeper (because I have tried it and figured it out) is, if the square you click first has a bomb, the bomb will be moved elsewhere. < 1349492579 306893 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks winmine < 1349492621 819814 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :winmine.exe < 1349492632 274181 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: How do you know? < 1349492637 745042 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you were just extremely lucky. < 1349492765 951426 :Guest37703!~root@128.226.240.192 QUIT :Changing host < 1349492766 145941 :Guest37703!~root@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric < 1349492770 204629 :Guest37703!~root@freebsd/developer/variable NICK :const < 1349492969 813662 :const!~root@freebsd/developer/variable PART :#esoteric < 1349493714 475492 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db42048.pool.mediaWays.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1349494347 840684 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I tried it many times, and I used the cheat code, which sets the top-left pixel of the screen black if there is a bomb there, so I figured out < 1349494365 369681 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, the cheat code. < 1349494368 483831 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :xyzzy something < 1349494370 888220 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :shift-enter < 1349494396 615198 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's been documented < 1349494781 515201 :Nisstyre-laptop!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1349494961 915162 :Nisstyre-laptop!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre JOIN :#esoteric < 1349495099 52989 :Nisstyre-laptop!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1349497420 114529 :Nisstyre-laptop!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre JOIN :#esoteric < 1349498046 804198 :TodPunk!~Tod@166-70-93-209.ip.xmission.com QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1349498058 500000 :TodPunk!~Tod@166-70-93-209.ip.xmission.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1349498301 229394 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1349500381 27685 :rodgort`!~rodgort@li125-242.members.linode.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1349500549 701420 :rodgort!~rodgort@69.164.210.242 JOIN :#esoteric < 1349500985 580088 :Nisstyre-laptop!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1349501113 662715 :Nisstyre-laptop!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre JOIN :#esoteric < 1349501815 408750 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :xsetroot -solid pink -cursor_name gumby < 1349501996 337039 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the DotFami mapper codes actually form a idempotent commutative monoid, rather than just being a monoid. < 1349503447 586881 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does the order of the commands matter in a hardware description language such as Verilog or VHDL? Does it matter if you repeat a command? < 1349505475 108621 :ogrom!~del@gprs-inet-65-28.elisa.ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1349505913 975548 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sent some file to Famicompo Mini vol.9 see if it work < 1349506455 632888 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :the minesweeper wiki is somewhat incredible given what a silly game it is. it's the best game ofc but pretty damn silly nevertheless. < 1349506499 997987 :Nisstyre-laptop!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1349507829 737155 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal JOIN :#esoteric < 1349508098 829792 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know of any NES/Famicom emulator which includes net play but also has a mode to display only odd frames on one computer and only even frames on other? < 1349508383 952375 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's NP complete. oklopol! It's almost as interesting as sudoku! < 1349508706 943419 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you add a successor operator to Hofstadter's BlooP and/or FlooP programming languages, you can do without IF, QUIT BLOCK, addition/multiplication operators, and comparison operators. < 1349509795 379895 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :In 2001, the Italian "International Campaign to Ban Winmine" voiced strong concern over the game, contending that it is an "offense against the victims of the mines" and those who risk their lives to clear them. < 1349509798 541708 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1349509871 162214 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love how some people are like so stupid that you wish they were less stupid because their stupidity is so overwhelming that it's be equally funny to watch if it was reduced but they wouldn't be as stupid. < 1349509940 374835 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the other hand i suppose that may have just been a well-executed joke < 1349510039 402048 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: sudoku, like minesweeper, is fun only if your speed-solving simple games. the difference is minesweeper games are always easy but there are a lot of clicks to be made. a simple sudoku takes like 5 seconds so bleh. < 1349510078 859 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hard sudoku puzzles are just annoying, there's too much data so a simpleton like me cannot really extract a meaningful mathematical problem, or at least expect it to have an interesting solution. < 1349510124 247924 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have yet to see a meaningful minesweeper puzzle that isn't just an obvious encoding of another type of problem, and no problems arise naturally in random minefields. < 1349510135 31211 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :*you're < 1349510233 689839 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :you very quickly learn to check in about 10 seconds whether there are solvable cells on the "advanced" board, and this can easily be kept in memory so actually you never have to stop to think. < 1349510262 656095 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i mean kept in memory and updated as you go) < 1349510430 474711 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :" Do you know of any NES/Famicom emulator which includes net play but also has a mode to display only odd frames on one computer and only even frames on other?" ...what < 1349510510 644237 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: What about what? < 1349510553 430610 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would there be such a mode < 1349510605 13678 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it might be useful for some things < 1349510725 689585 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it might be not useful for some things but it might be useful for some other things. < 1349510771 636997 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, OK < 1349510849 684702 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you tell me some things for which it would be useful to have a NES/Famicom emulator which includes net play but also has a mode to display only odd frams on one computer and only even frames on other? < 1349510862 177270 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :*frames < 1349511081 858085 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1349511109 825126 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such as multiplayers games with separate screens. It could be done on a TV screen as well; it does not have to be only on the emulator. < 1349511133 995961 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm right < 1349511137 882022 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess that's a fun hack < 1349511191 838006 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The similar thing can also be used for stereovision. < 1349513257 690352 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1349514139 296289 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1349516431 661502 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4d0b7082.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1349518266 206873 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1349520026 889246 :carado!~user4539@2a01:e35:2e3d:3ef0:6ef0:49ff:fe73:1fd0 JOIN :#esoteric < 1349520183 567125 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1349521732 208124 :barts_!~barts@p4FD0E886.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1349521914 738777 :barts!~barts@p57AEAC38.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1349522463 841876 :ogrom!~del@gprs-inet-65-28.elisa.ee QUIT :Quit: Left < 1349523812 972596 :carado!~user4539@2a01:e35:2e3d:3ef0:6ef0:49ff:fe73:1fd0 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1349524385 877664 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1349524425 777460 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1349524426 10457 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arc_Koen: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. < 1349524429 984609 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages < 1349524430 180338 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan said 16h 48m 36s ago: Stupid me, I left the <>'s around your nick when pasting into @tell... < 1349524506 887165 :carado!~user4539@2a01:e35:2e3d:3ef0:6ef0:49ff:fe73:1fd0 JOIN :#esoteric < 1349527206 283427 :ogrom!~del@gprs-inet-65-28.elisa.ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1349527763 196140 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-97-151-171.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1349527844 200434 :pumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin NICK :copumpkin < 1349528477 234755 :carado!~user4539@2a01:e35:2e3d:3ef0:6ef0:49ff:fe73:1fd0 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1349528488 785401 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-97-151-171.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages? < 1349528488 980189 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, no messages today. < 1349528491 469118 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-97-151-171.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay! < 1349529171 979000 :ogrom!~del@gprs-inet-65-28.elisa.ee QUIT :Quit: Left < 1349529284 194409 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-97-151-171.as13285.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1349529498 380046 :aloril_!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1349529594 201525 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1349530252 576462 :aloril_!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1349531039 207831 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1349531242 269878 :kinoSi!~kinosi@27-96-32-84.ipq.jp QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1349531269 287792 :kinoSi!~kinosi@27-96-32-84.ipq.jp JOIN :#esoteric < 1349532170 856036 :sivoais!~zaki@199.19.225.239 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1349532213 844094 :sivoais!~zaki@199.19.225.239 JOIN :#esoteric < 1349532545 557255 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"After these deadly results, British intelligence leaked falsified information implying that the rockets were over-shooting their London target by 10 to 20 miles. This tactic worked and for the remainder of the war most landed in Kent due to erroneous recalibration.[37] < 1349532545 751944 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :" -- [[V-2] < 1349532548 9417 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*]] < 1349532567 503527 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :competent nazis < 1349532676 483338 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like that story :) they trusted the double agents more than their (correct) radio location thingy < 1349532698 157739 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also apparently the v-2 programme cost more than the manhattan project < 1349532727 250052 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :rockets = hard, throwing plutinium together = easy < 1349532753 322958 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :silly olsner < 1349532763 493097 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :gun-type assemblies don't work with plutonium < 1349532809 500957 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they're all based on some kind of throwing together of stuff, doesn't have to be gun-type < 1349532850 536163 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :implosion assemblies are more about squeezing < 1349532944 676428 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I saw a ted talk about the norden bombsight a while ago, iirc it cost about half of the manhattan project < 1349533859 534197 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1349533933 811613 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :atriq: why are you happy when you have no messages? < 1349534073 25952 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell I think the DotFami mapper codes actually form a idempotent commutative monoid, rather than just being a monoid. <-- i think an idempotent commutative monoid may the same as a semilattice < 1349534073 258920 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1349534077 579177 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh < 1349534090 460751 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell zzo38 I think the DotFami mapper codes actually form a idempotent commutative monoid, rather than just being a monoid. <-- i think an idempotent commutative monoid may the same as a semilattice < 1349534090 655924 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1349534116 951213 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastelogs oerjan_?> [@]tell < < 1349534124 226362 :atriq!~Taneb@host-84-13-78-216.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1349534155 911178 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.23392 < 1349534156 699089 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell zzo38 *may be < 1349534156 894005 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1349534183 5027 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastelogs oerjan_?> [@]tell < < 1349534193 254661 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.21919 < 1349534201 242241 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: It keeps happening. < 1349534302 402261 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, the @tell < or HackEgo not working properly? < 1349534330 322326 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell zzo38 Does the Haskell compiler know that equality is reflexive? <-- it actually isn't, for Double (NaN) < 1349534330 554928 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1349534370 36015 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hope zzo38 doesn't get confused by me resending answers from back in january < 1349534375 672407 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Both. < 1349534385 143969 :atriq!~Taneb@host-84-13-78-216.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1349534389 685994 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :there were only those three, however. < 1349534411 6168 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: But if you only take into account the seconds when they sent, that's like one every second. < 1349534424 126071 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :DEEP < 1349534632 138682 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src Monoid < 1349534632 371700 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :class Monoid a where < 1349534632 566276 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : mempty :: a < 1349534632 566473 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : mappend :: a -> a -> a < 1349534632 566579 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : mconcat :: [a] -> a < 1349534640 431519 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell zzo38 Actually, a it's a semilattice with a bottom element (the mempty). < 1349534640 626632 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1349534655 120563 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell zzo38 *-a < 1349534655 315409 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1349534795 63039 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell zzo38 From wikipedia: "A bounded semilattice is an idempotent commutative monoid." < 1349534795 258325 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1349534982 621124 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1349534988 654608 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Hey, you use the console sometimes, right? < 1349535008 733860 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :a master of consolation < 1349535053 160494 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not so often these days. And I'm making foods at the moment. < 1349535065 335464 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :a master of cuisine too! < 1349535082 6025 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Man, you and your foods. < 1349535094 17598 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :People DIE if food is not made. < 1349535102 330289 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or so they say, anyway. < 1349535108 566351 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yeah well, I'll die if my console remains unable to display Unicode characters!!! < 1349535113 640380 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Think about ME for a change, fizzie. < 1349535151 778383 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :unicode characters are a vital part of elliott's immortality scheme < 1349535189 372399 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, wasn't i also supposed to eat -> < 1349535233 207679 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1349535235 510244 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :From what I recall from the days I actually used it, it's relatively easy to make it use UTF-8, but there seemed to be some kind of an issue fitting more than about 512 characters in a font. < 1349535251 700532 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Weeeell, I'm using Terminus. < 1349535260 301072 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ter-u20n". I assume the u is for Unicode??? < 1349535272 759121 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway the fancy e in "caf[fancy e]" is just displaying as a square on the console. < 1349535288 120728 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's this keymap option like "FONT_MAP=8859-2" that apparently you're meant to set appropriately for the font. < 1349535293 653969 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I don't know what it's supposed to be for this one. < 1349535308 996271 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alternatively maybe I am using the wrong Terminus?? < 1349535313 901515 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are also a bunch with three digits and no "u". < 1349535321 562064 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that just the accented e? I'd think that'd be in the console selection. < 1349535328 901281 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, the accented one. < 1349535331 606378 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The fancy French e. < 1349535355 409516 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I want, e.g. ter-120n. < 1349535356 933292 :carado!~user4539@2a01:e35:2e3d:3ef0:6ef0:49ff:fe73:1fd0 JOIN :#esoteric < 1349535360 191495 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or ter-220n. < 1349535366 357125 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or ter-520n. < 1349535373 639593 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who even knows what these numbers and letters are??? < 1349535384 294109 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess there might be documentation somewhere? < 1349535436 278341 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ter-2* iso02, cp1250 ISO8859-2, Windows-1250 < 1349535439 245348 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ter-u* koi8u KOI8-U < 1349535448 86761 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't seem to be the 'u' you want. < 1349535453 78905 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ter-1* iso01, iso15, cp1252 ISO8859-1, ISO8859-15, Windows-1252 < 1349535480 359406 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That one is borderline reasonable. < 1349535482 938243 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ter-v* all listed above all listed above and many others (about 110 and many others language sets), 8 foreground colors < 1349535504 824892 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That one sounds funny, I wonder how it works. < 1349535569 933884 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also claims the PSF has the "Unicode data"; I vaguely indeed recall that was a thing. < 1349535582 81068 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That, and a console set to UTF-8 mode, should mean the code page doesn't actually matter. < 1349535596 225082 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though I suppose the koi8u version wouldn't necessarily have an accented e. < 1349535697 18111 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: So, er, which prefix of 12579cdfgkpux do I want? < 1349535775 78481 :ogrom!~del@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1349535856 905065 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think '1' is like the most general-purposey, unless you have that 'v' thing and it works. < 1349535885 853566 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I don't appear to have a v thing. :( < 1349535908 728416 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : It also claims the PSF has the "Unicode data"; I vaguely indeed recall that was a thing. That, and a console set to UTF-8 mode, should mean the code page doesn't actually matter. < 1349535913 406619 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, er, does that mean I can't use this or something? < 1349535915 891118 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Is that the v thing?) < 1349535982 638077 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I just mean you shouldn't necessarily need to tell the thing about the code page, if it's using UTF-8 and has the Unicode code points in the PSF, since it'd pick characters using the code points. And I understood that applied to all the PSF versions, not just the mysterious v. < 1349536027 363071 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: So if I pick the 1 thing I should get the full Unicode coverage? I mean, as full as Terminus has to start with (e.g. in X). < 1349536038 66443 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or is the character set still limited? < 1349536062 19124 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it would be limited to 512 characters in any case, as far as I know. < 1349536072 626895 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :how did you end up having to choose variants of terminus? < 1349536072 934520 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. :( < 1349536084 943647 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Well, you know, Linux console. < 1349536088 832271 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc, I just installed it and since then it works < 1349536103 892644 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the other hand, Terminus' README says it has 879 characters in total, so 512 is not a lot less. < 1349536118 182613 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know whether the '1' variant only has the code pages it mentions or what, though. < 1349536138 908611 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are tools to dump a list of characters in a PSF file, you could check with one. < 1349536148 155585 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'll just live in ignorance. < 1349536157 7546 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea how systemd vconsole things are used to configure fonts, anyway. Back when I fiddled with these I just had the consoletools package. < 1349536158 61892 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :but otoh, I don't use the linux console so I wouldn't notice if that part is completely broken < 1349536189 932541 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Wait, when did I say anything about vconsole? < 1349536211 202441 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The hits for "FONT_MAP" said things about it. I suppose it could be something else. < 1349536221 101846 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's kind of a generic-sounding term. < 1349536228 403626 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right. < 1349536244 574954 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Well, I'm just migrating my Arch system from rc.conf to this vconsole.conf thing, but I happened to set Terminus as my console font at the same time. < 1349536261 558552 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I'm not actually using systemd, but they're deprecating most of rc.conf and telling you to move settings to all these little files to prepare for switching over to systemd. < 1349536348 412513 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's something called "FONT_UNIMAP" too, apparently. But from what I recall, in UTF-8 mode -- which is certainly the only reasonable mode these days -- the mappings weren't really relevant. < 1349536379 25354 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Also, uh, wish me luck in upgrading to GRUB2. < 1349536387 64198 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sort of scared. < 1349536396 475071 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good luck. It went well for me. < 1349536405 393703 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mature and well-tested technology and all that. < 1349536436 654295 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::: grub-common and grub are in conflict. Remove grub? [y/N] y < 1349536437 131987 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :RIP < 1349536462 689877 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway as long as you can boot from something external maybe things won't become too unfixable. I had that one laptop that couldn't boot from anything else than the internal HD, fiddling with its boot setup was always so tense. < 1349536463 405488 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Usually the post-MBR gap (after the 512 byte MBR region and before the start of the 1st partition) in many MBR (or msdos disklabel) partitioned systems is 31 KiB when DOS compatibility cylinder alignment issues are satisfied in the partition table. However a post-MBR gap of about 1 to 2 MiB is recommended to provide sufficient room for embedding GRUB2's core.img (FS#24103). It is advisable to use a partitioner which supports 1 MiB partition align < 1349536463 600469 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ment to obtain this space as well as satisfy other non-512 byte sector issues (which are unrelated to embedding of core.img). < 1349536463 600713 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you do not dual-boot with MS Windows (any version) in BIOS systems, it is advisable to switch to GPT partitioning - GUID_Partition_Table#Convert_from_MBR_to_GPT < 1349536465 274133 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um. < 1349536473 902097 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Do I need to understand all this? < 1349536493 915678 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also is it really telling me to switch from MBR to GPT on a regular system? That sounds sort of like a bad idea. < 1349536504 882826 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe they want to be futuristic. < 1349536509 653844 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, lots of things don't even support GPT, do they?? < 1349536515 576421 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :They want you to do UEFI too :P < 1349536527 273202 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't exactly need "lots of things" to support it do you < 1349536534 843358 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your hardware, bootloader and kernel mostly. < 1349536542 957135 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hardware being the hard part (no pun intended) < 1349536554 778232 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, no, but it sounds like it'd be an awful pain if I ever, e.g., wanted to install an OS that has no clue what GPT is. < 1349536555 493011 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I couldn't be bothered with GPT < 1349536567 789815 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :What kind of OS doesn't even support GPT these days < 1349536577 635960 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :why the heck did they EVICT my favorite restaurant? < 1349536579 641678 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But anyway I guess I shouldn't be surprised that Arch advice is putting bleeding-edge high-techness over practicality.. < 1349536580 722254 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The mentioned MS Windows in BIOS systems maybe. :p < 1349536581 487032 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION screams < 1349536611 625180 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*hell < 1349536622 294300 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you probably didn't eat there often enough < 1349536630 522270 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: almost every day :( < 1349536633 446806 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :They probably had rats in the food. < 1349536636 437662 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, what is "hell" replacing there < 1349536643 500257 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: heck < 1349536648 513483 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1349536656 853497 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: don't they usually give notice of these kinds of things < 1349536658 822964 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"they" < 1349536662 760808 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: maybe they got evicted for letting people like you in < 1349536700 254228 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well yes, i've known it for a few months, but two days ago they actually closed :( < 1349536723 180728 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1349536748 629505 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[ < 1349536748 862837 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are 3 ways to install GRUB(2) boot files in BIOS booting: < 1349536749 58428 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :#Install_to_440-byte_MBR_boot_code_region (recommended) , < 1349536749 58644 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :#Install_to_Partition_or_Partitionless_Disk (not recommended), < 1349536749 58755 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :#Generate_core.img_alone (safest method, but requires another BIOS bootloader like grub-legacy or syslinux to be installed to chainload /boot/grub/i386-pc/core.img). < 1349536750 732360 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :]] < 1349536758 359974 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Sometimes I think about switching back to Debian. < 1349536788 141223 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice, installing grub to boot grub is a recommended solution < 1349536806 547457 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you interpret "safest method" as a recommendation < 1349536834 975042 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of them is explicitly flagged as "recommended", I think that's the... recommended one. < 1349536847 925384 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh wow, "sudo grub-install --target=i386-pc --recheck --debug /dev/sda" produces a lot of output. < 1349536880 48079 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Debian's GRUB 2 installer initially did that #3 and configured the existing GRUB <2 to chainload the core.img; then when you had booted a couple of time and were certain it works, you were meant to call a script that actually put the GRUB 2 in the MBR. < 1349536898 147544 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's sily. < 1349536972 119846 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Okay I think it is done??? Let's try < 1349536981 871566 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that was the last we heard of him. < 1349537015 627842 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1349537030 737576 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: they got impeccable marks on all the recent hygiene controls. (in trondheim they have to put the result form visible in the restaurant.) < 1349537069 213856 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, i am going to believe it was pure greed by the landowner. (they're being replaced by a pharmacy.) < 1349537075 743064 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Ooh, they should do that here too. Does it have to be "prominently visible" or something? < 1349537081 357699 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, neon lights and signs. < 1349537082 378799 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yeah < 1349537090 765770 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, not neon lights :P < 1349537107 208147 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1349537124 455093 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The local IKEA's restaurant has a diploma on the wall about how they do "organic" things. < 1349537144 271355 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, um, it works, but it runs in a really really freaky resolution. < 1349537165 48956 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, it is stretching a 4:3 (but larger than the "plain old BIOS text") resolution to my widescreen... screen. < 1349537168 50644 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and some gas station in Norway where we stopped had a whole wall full of all kinds of yellowed diplomas about marketing seminars from 1989 or whatever. < 1349537175 293056 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there any hope of getting it the same resolution as my Linux console? < 1349537179 366552 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or is that too fancy to ask of a bootloader. < 1349537183 990711 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(1336x768 or something.) < 1349537213 77744 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :They at least used to be somewhat limited to modes listed by the BIOS in question. < 1349537229 215840 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but this is GRUB2. It's so fancy, and the future. < 1349537263 512027 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Visual Configuration < 1349537263 706829 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :In GRUB2 it is possible, by default, to change the look of the menu. Make sure to initialize, if not done already, GRUB2 graphical terminal, gfxterm, with proper video mode, gfxmode, in GRUB2. This can be seen in the section #Correct_GRUB2_No_Suitable_Mode_Found_Error. This video mode is passed by GRUB2 to the linux kernel via 'gfxpayload' so any visual configurations need this mode in order to be in effect. < 1349537263 707001 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Setting the framebuffer resolution < 1349537263 707112 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :GRUB2 can set the framebuffer for both GRUB2 itself and the kernel. The old vga= way is deprecated. The preferred method is editing /etc/default/grub as the following sample: < 1349537266 16013 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :GRUB_GFXMODE=1024x768x32 < 1349537268 19423 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :GRUB_GFXPAYLOAD_LINUX=keep < 1349537270 75464 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: See? This looks super fancy. < 1349537273 658597 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The VESA widescreen resolutions are not standardized, and I have never once been able to get one working from Grub2. I have heard it's possible, if using an Intel GFX chip and some semi-complicated VESA soft-patching", says some guy. < 1349537281 1073 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You can choose one of these resolutions: 640×480, 800×600, 1024×768, 1280×1024, 1600×1200, 1920×1200" < 1349537285 368112 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :None of those are the right resolution. :( < 1349537290 439895 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Well I am using an Intel chip. < 1349537304 148436 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Some times for Intel graphic adapters neither # hwinfo --framebuffer nor vbeinfo will show you the desired resolution. In this case you can use 915resolution hack. This hack will temporarily modify video BIOS and add needed resolution. See 915resolution's home page" < 1349537311 71863 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Maybe I can use this to enable the true resolution?? < 1349537323 505604 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can certainly *try*. < 1349537341 404881 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's of course even possible your VESA BIOS has the widescreen resolution modes listed directly. < 1349537357 959820 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :In which case I suppose just stating the mode should work. < 1349537364 106215 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: If this breaks horribly how will I boot things??? I don't even know wher my External Bootable USB Medium(TM) is. < 1349537374 625297 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you think grub has some kind of fallback if you specify an invalid resolution. < 1349537402 313833 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have it doing the right thing unattended, you can just touch nothing if it's messed up. < 1349537428 696105 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. Hokay then. < 1349537441 855067 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And anyway I suppose if the BIOS call to switch modes says "I don't like this" it's likely to just keep whatever resolution it was, or choose some "safe" default. < 1349537447 129413 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Maybe I should install coreboot so I can get my BIOS to use the right resolution too!!! < 1349537450 401659 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume it supports fancy things like that. < 1349537471 938430 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :# note that you can use only modes which your graphic card supports via VBE < 1349537472 132812 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :# you can see them in real GRUB with the command `vbeinfo' < 1349537474 217616 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I could try this also. < 1349537482 665135 :Nisstyre-laptop!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre JOIN :#esoteric < 1349537488 326760 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's true, you could try that. < 1349537494 504715 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I won't! < 1349537500 98958 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1349537584 953077 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, last time we heard from him for _real_! < 1349537697 831035 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously *this* time he's really gone < 1349537707 991479 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah. < 1349537908 362967 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1349537915 82935 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, since that's the case, those onions aren't going to dice themselves. -> < 1349537915 587205 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Intel chipset detected. However, 915resolution was unable to determine the chipset type. < 1349537919 551971 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::'( < 1349537920 402152 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, dangnabbits. < 1349537921 599701 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn, null hypothesis failed again! < 1349537930 638449 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the onions still won't. < 1349537931 639566 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I mean, you can go do whatever. But I might cry. < 1349538006 686296 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't it more likely that fizzie will cry, given the task at hand? < 1349538014 514737 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: due to the onions? the onions are in finland < 1349538034 774836 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I bet you're here. < 1349538046 520083 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[ < 1349538046 851929 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Next, our purpose is to overwrite mode 30. (You can choose what ever mode you want.) In the file /etc/grub.d/00_header just before the set gfxmode=${GRUB_GFXMODE} line insert: < 1349538047 46661 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :915resolution 30 1440 900 < 1349538047 241027 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :]] < 1349538048 268997 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :the hexham onion chop of 2012 < 1349538050 429064 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it matter which mode you pick??? < 1349538052 746102 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could something bad happen. < 1349538064 240590 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :staffed entirely by finns < 1349538066 980382 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :more famous last words < 1349538540 833060 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't it great how all of Linux functionality is reimplemented from scratch in GRUB just so you can use it for two seconds before you boot Linux? < 1349538574 359462 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :GNOME for GRUB™ < 1349538598 494687 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION off to Seattle soon. < 1349538601 564775 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, DON'T YOU JUST LOVE how modern operating systems require other operating systems to boot? < 1349538606 123150 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I don't like bootloaders. < 1349538617 351534 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Let me guess, @'s bootloader is @? < 1349538623 363720 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Yes. :( < 1349538629 340269 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: It's not really an operating system when all it can do is boot a kernel < 1349538636 178886 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :grub can do more than that. < 1349538638 280317 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@s all the way down < 1349538638 476309 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you meant: shootout show slap smack source spell spell-all src . ? @ v < 1349538640 613696 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it even has a game of some kind. < 1349538648 797000 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :COMMERCIAL AT < 1349538653 808646 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's @'s full nam, right? < 1349538657 251505 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But seriously, if you have any kind of complexity in terms of reading files -- like say, encryption, LVM-type stuff, or whatever -- then your bootloader inevitably becomes more and more like your OS. < 1349538673 364125 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And eventually you've just rewritten your OS except weirder and with less functionality, except that this time it also has a boot sector. < 1349538683 234210 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: just because all you use it for is booting another kernel, that doesn't mean it's not an OS < 1349538684 694234 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yuck. < 1349538760 181346 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's not true that GRUB can only boot a kernel < 1349538767 192320 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't GRUB2 have a turing complete scripting language < 1349538771 27806 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and filesystem read/write < 1349538773 349453 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and network capability < 1349538779 720055 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone should write a webserver for GRUB2 < 1349538779 928509 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :When life gives you onions, make onionade. Okay, gone again. < 1349538793 758007 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that you can log into the machine you just booted and select the kernel through an AJAXy web interface < 1349538796 774482 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :just because < 1349538800 612717 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(bbl) < 1349538813 397018 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :grub2 comes with a shell that can actually do stuff, that makes it really clear that it's an OS < 1349538903 922007 :atriq!~nathan@host-84-13-78-216.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1349538915 978953 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1349538921 305527 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-24-31-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :GRUB2 is *definitely* an OS. < 1349538928 338802 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use syslinux < 1349538929 624991 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-24-31-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps a relatively light-weight OS, but even so. < 1349538937 917965 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-24-31-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: And that's not an OS. :) < 1349538947 892438 :atriq!~nathan@host-84-13-78-216.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use 3D glasses < 1349538954 234590 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :syslinux isn't (afaik), but DOS is an OS < 1349538966 784084 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't use DOS though < 1349538980 578670 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-24-31-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :syslinux is essentially DOS's bootloading scheme adapted to Linux. < 1349539013 270743 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't syslinux an actual DOS application? < 1349539049 288685 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-24-31-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Though it might work on DOS, syslinux is the FAT bootloader, done in normal FAT bootloader style. < 1349539069 523214 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-24-31-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also refers to the class of similar bootloaders, including isolinux and extlinux... < 1349539085 805130 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-24-31-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :loadlin is the DOS program. < 1349539085 999928 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :A part of syslinux can be used to boot linux from DOS, but you don't need dos to boot using syslinux < 1349539105 819223 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, ok < 1349539110 903130 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-24-31-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, syslinux doesn't have loadlin I don't think? < 1349539115 520297 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have the normal MBR -> second stage -> linux setup < 1349539121 954895 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Without a separate boot partition < 1349539186 907501 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-24-31-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well. I guess syslinux itself almost counts as an OS. Because it can bootload COM files too. < 1349539203 847993 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-24-31-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or "COM32" files. < 1349539211 790428 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-24-31-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which is exactly what it sounds like) < 1349539220 866894 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: com files are plain x86 code < 1349539223 768290 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :No header or anything < 1349539234 992876 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-24-31-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am very well aware. < 1349539249 759590 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kernels are x86 code too =P < 1349539256 266936 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I heard you like bootloaders < 1349539269 172505 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-24-31-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: By that notion DOS is a bootloader. < 1349539287 24358 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, DOS does more than just loading executables < 1349539301 589876 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :It provides an API for doing stuff < 1349539318 907423 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-24-31-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So does syslinux. < 1349539348 843574 :jix!~jix@jixco.de QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1349539355 996236 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-24-31-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A very, very limited subset of DOS and a couple things handy for adding functionality to the boot process. < 1349539415 966081 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :The difference is that DOS by default asks the user what to do, while syslinux by default follows the configuration =P < 1349539449 901514 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cannot find /dev/sda1. Abort, retry, fail? < 1349539450 95966 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, < 1349539461 837390 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I don't know if it's possible to go back to syslinux once the com32 file is done < 1349539496 191966 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's an operating system with continuation passing, duh < 1349539807 206616 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1349539848 921365 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Do you know how to change the Linux console cursor? < 1349539851 117418 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :By the way, don't forget the third copy of a subset of an operating system that needs to be implemented in the firmware. < 1349539853 594400 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, pre-shell-opening. < 1349539868 583901 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know you can put some funny escape codes in your bashrc or whatever, but that doesn't help for the login prompt and whatnot. < 1349539871 79690 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :VITALLY IMPORTANT THINGS. < 1349540058 166486 :atriq!~nathan@host-84-13-78-216.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone know where I can get help with a problem with Ubuntu Unity without people telling me that Unity sucks? < 1349540068 452225 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unity sucks. < 1349540088 125916 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :atriq: not here, apparently < 1349540100 711890 :atriq!~nathan@host-84-13-78-216.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Evidently < 1349540109 31089 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously < 1349540185 38712 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :atriq: Try http://askubuntu.com/. < 1349540207 510364 :atriq!~nathan@host-84-13-78-216.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't exactly know how to elucidate my problem < 1349540225 194087 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not working? stop using it, problem solved. < 1349540230 892392 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :atriq: Well, that's a problem. < 1349540241 627222 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :atriq: You could ask for help on http://english.stackexchange.com/! < 1349540334 445599 :atriq!~nathan@host-84-13-78-216.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know how to take a screenshot with the mouse cursor displayed? < 1349540366 322342 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uhh, not really. I think it's possible, though. < 1349540368 798322 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think scrot can do it. < 1349540378 693508 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Once settled in, ferrets quickly establish their territory and set the house rules: What's theirs is theirs, what's yours is up for grabs. < 1349540395 695018 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1349540719 654398 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, http://english.stackexchange.com/ exists < 1349540831 785003 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :those people are such cycles < 1349540854 744057 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://islam.stackexchange.com/ < 1349541283 935850 :ogrom!~del@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee QUIT :Quit: Left < 1349541613 182016 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@cust-101.ktknet.cz JOIN :#esoteric < 1349542156 180964 :ogrom!~del@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1349542223 15228 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1349542245 953886 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: hello < 1349542358 914312 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: There's a set of escape codes that date from the VGA console days, I'm not sure if they still do the same thing in fbcon. They can set the hardware console to underscore/lower-third/lower-half/lower-two-thirds/full-block, or turn on the soft cursor that has the same shapes but also a color. < 1349542375 211156 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only have the vgacon. < 1349542400 252869 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Thanxe. < 1349542415 270803 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Do you know how much of the average /var/log is produced by syslog? < 1349542416 898710 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I think Linux does emulate them < 1349542423 100071 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not fully certain though < 1349542426 477261 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: I wouldn't be surprised. < 1349542431 992096 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I've gotten systemd working but it doesn't seem to have this syslog compatibility shim thing running. < 1349542443 921207 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: So I'm wondering if I want to get that working or whether I could just do without any syslog support whatsoever. < 1349542458 569986 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The codes aren't for some reason listed in the usual console_codes man page (or if they are, I didn't notice) but googling found http://linuxgazette.net/137/anonymous.html that lists them. < 1349542459 360030 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you tell me what the escape codes are I can find out < 1349542473 320774 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: \e[?4c should make a half-block. < 1349542494 142966 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: (The escape codes aren't the problem; the main problem is that I can't figure out how I can get that to run before login(1) or such.) < 1349542537 45615 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Works < 1349542571 616508 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1349542585 72738 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Changing the number to 1 turns it off entirely < 1349542591 261134 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :As for /var/log all the usual things (auth, daemon, dmesg, mail.{log,info,warn,err} and so on) I think tend to go through syslog; only "major" things like Samba, HTTP servers and so on have their own logging. At least in the systems I have. < 1349542599 768052 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: Yes, it should. < 1349542617 838127 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: 1-6 should be a steadily growing thing from invisible to full block. < 1349542647 382215 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I guess I should probably get this working then. < 1349542647 996548 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep, it does that < 1349542669 306918 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(VGA hardware cursor is specified in terms of scanlines, so it's not really exposing the full functionality; VGA cursor can be a middle-of-the-cell thing, or an overline. < 1349542669 501716 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: The wiki page is just all < 1349542669 836305 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[ < 1349542670 368094 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since version 38 systemd has an own logging system, the journal. < 1349542670 562374 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :By default, running a syslog daemon is no longer required. To read the log, use: < 1349542670 931860 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :]] < 1349542694 236094 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know absolutely nothing about systemd. Except that I hear it's all the rage. < 1349542700 202972 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in, popular. < 1349542709 687809 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, uh, does this look sane to you? https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/systemd#Journald_in_conjunction_with_a_classic_syslog_daemon < 1349542729 589266 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even know what that would do exactly. < 1349542738 618637 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the goal is to get syslog stuff filtered through into the systemd(tm) journal(tm). < 1349542745 134928 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1349542746 914099 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I don't really know how to do that because I'm incompetent. < 1349542831 1210 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think -- based on http://lwn.net/Articles/474968/ -- that systemd is "syslog-compatible" out of the box in the sense that it provides a /dev/log applications can log to, and those already go to wherever it is the journal goes. < 1349542866 938937 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :But if you want a traditional syslogd sorting the messages and outputting /var/log/whatever as it is configured to, you'll just start the traditional syslogd and make it read that /run/systemd/journal/syslog and then it also gets all that stuff. < 1349542887 724198 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose if you're not terribly interested in how the logs are organized, letting systemd do the whole thing is okay too. < 1349542895 993208 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assuming it writes the journal somewhere. < 1349542925 36145 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Note that the journal will store log data only on /run/log/journal which makes it volatile. If a subdirectory /var/log/journal is created the journal will instead store its data on /var, thus making the journal persistant." < 1349542948 915320 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You might do that and then use that systemd-journalctl thing that can output human-readable things or JSON or whatever, it sounds very modern. < 1349543004 540858 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, unless you have a traditional syslogd configuration you're interested in keeping. < 1349543046 329941 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : I think -- based on http://lwn.net/Articles/474968/ -- that systemd is "syslog-compatible" out of the box in the sense that it provides a /dev/log applications can log to, and those already go to wherever it is the journal goes. < 1349543049 224879 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I do have a /dev/log. < 1349543055 597036 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was trying nc -u 127.0.0.1 514. < 1349543064 72367 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Googles told me that's how you sent a message to syslog. < 1349543065 669060 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did they mislead me? < 1349543068 75618 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's often not enabled by default. < 1349543073 884815 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1349543077 111833 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, well, I don't know how often, but at least sometimes. < 1349543092 914759 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I need /var/log/whatever. I mean, I don't really look at them often, and I think systemd has its own stuff to read the logs. < 1349543110 277269 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it seems to have a thing that can produce things from the journal in all kinds of formats. < 1349543124 235358 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's this "journalctl" that just spews a bunch of output to a pager when run as root, at least. < 1349543131 180370 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Including all the sudo logs and whatnot. < 1349543134 592935 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I suppose it is working fine. < 1349543140 192796 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. So it sounds like it's working okays. < 1349543157 762201 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you can do that thing referred to above if you want to make the journal persistent and not wiped out at each boot. < 1349543167 825079 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, I heard about having to do the mkdir thing. < 1349543174 375654 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/\s+/ /g < 1349543182 68487 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I guess I'll uninstall sysvinit. < 1349543184 785991 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, living on the edge. < 1349543216 413308 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the record, I don't seem to have an UDP-listening syslogd either. It's not really necessary except when wanting to collect logs over the network from other boxes. < 1349543229 529394 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think my VDSL2 modem can send stuff to a listening syslogd. < 1349543247 932285 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except it doesn't write anything very interesting in the log last I looked. < 1349543254 301662 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1349543266 58907 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The thing I found was all about testing a syslog server with a separate IP and so on. < 1349543312 121010 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"B0 Line Rate - Downstream (Kbps): 99998" < 1349543315 894339 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sounds a bit dubious. < 1349543325 982975 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I went to look at the box's webif.) < 1349543361 50026 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Slow boot? Blame systemd! < 1349543361 245048 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, this is not a disparaging or bashing article of the new Linux boot process technology designed to replace the older, classic System V init daemon." < 1349543367 490032 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good thing you didn't give it a sensationalised title, then! < 1349543413 545482 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh, I wonder if someone has done something to our internets. Upgraded hardware or something. < 1349543431 55150 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It reports attainable down/upstream rates as 123180/46260 Kbps. < 1349543449 896434 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :They used to be something like 70M/... well, I don't remember what the upstream was. < 1349543461 404926 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hokay, so I want to do "sudo systemctl enable dhcpcd@eth0.service", I think. < 1349543546 196633 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then "sudo systemctl enable cronie.service". < 1349543546 694229 :sivoais!~zaki@199.19.225.239 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1349543574 796700 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then alsa-store.service and alsa-restore.service. < 1349543583 427176 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The unit files have no [Install] section. They are not meant to be enabled using systemctl. < 1349543583 964154 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :HELP < 1349543595 501965 :sivoais!~zaki@199.19.225.239 JOIN :#esoteric < 1349543596 356018 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it's default. < 1349543626 435530 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :RIP DAEMONS=(network crond alsa). < 1349543649 961644 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Isn't the FUTURE EXCITING? < 1349543725 774125 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's almost enough for me to also try entering the future. But not quite. < 1349543746 367664 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could do the stupid thing and try out the open-source nv driver one of these days, though. < 1349543752 312825 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: My system boots up in, like, seconds now!!! < 1349543755 65399 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seconds! < 1349543763 643263 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: PARALLEL. < 1349543770 278669 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::: systemd-sysvcompat and sysvinit are in conflict. Remove sysvinit? [y/N] y < 1349543774 5317 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE FUTURE < 1349543781 667967 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Amazzing. < 1349543788 248038 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just saved 0.09 MiB by entering the future! < 1349543818 409959 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should set up ntp. < 1349543821 252107 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I actually have it here. < 1349543823 578216 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And ntp is very future. < 1349543826 45844 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Debian went "parallel" with sysvinit+dependency-based boot ordering quite a while ago, I believe. < 1349543833 222497 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should set up a GPS clock. < 1349543838 452081 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was a picture not long ago. < 1349543839 772432 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: don't do it, ntp will just adjust your system time back into the present < 1349543872 965685 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-24-31-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: It's actually silly-yet-amazing. < 1349543878 329847 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yes, but did you know that systemd is EVEN MORE PARALLEL? < 1349543881 572437 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-24-31-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: They create a makefile and run it with make -j < 1349543885 301950 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: It starts up services BEFORE THEIR DEPENDENCIES. < 1349543904 59508 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: http://imgur.com/a/WtaOp if you didn't see it, it's what ion did. < 1349543922 270756 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: (By opening a fake socket on the same port or whatever as the dependencies, and then holding everything that comes in there until the thing actually starts, and then forwards it on.) < 1349543945 22822 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Oh. I assumed the "Makefile-based init" or whatever message that came up on every boot meant something... more reasonable. < 1349543945 460870 :atriq!~nathan@host-84-13-78-216.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really need to get better at naming types < 1349543953 351091 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you set up NTP, you'll get a stratum-2 time at best; if you have your own GPS receiver you'll be stratum-1. < 1349543960 325090 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can I be stratum-0? < 1349543986 629541 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-24-31-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only if your NTP server *actually is* an atomic clock. < 1349543986 824554 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :If your computer is an atomic clock, maybe. < 1349543989 698429 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: (Do they really do that?) < 1349544001 323248 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-24-31-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes, that's how make-based init works. < 1349544009 263575 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: What if I buy an atomic clock and plug it into my computer? < 1349544011 998254 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet they're cheap nowadays. < 1349544014 434081 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the future, after all. < 1349544020 640060 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Then the clock is stratum-0 and the computer stratum-1. < 1349544027 920507 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(They're weird that way.) < 1349544054 663181 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: What's the difference between a computer with an atomic clock on its motherboard and a computer with a wire running to an atomic clock? < 1349544058 166333 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or is the former stratum-1 too? < 1349544068 640735 :atriq!~nathan@host-84-13-78-216.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the opposite of Separation? < 1349544072 532418 :atriq!~nathan@host-84-13-78-216.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in a marriage context) < 1349544074 384948 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Possibly it is. I'm not really sure. < 1349544078 158272 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have a display on your atomic clock so you can measure the time it's reading, is that display stratum-0 or stratum-1? < 1349544083 643918 :atriq!~nathan@host-84-13-78-216.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or, more generically, in a relationship context) < 1349544085 458337 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-24-31-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :atriq: Matrimony? < 1349544087 139629 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-24-31-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1349544093 480951 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Starting to think there's no such thing as stratum-0???? < 1349544099 351705 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess the actual, like, atoms are stratum-0. < 1349544100 294770 :atriq!~nathan@host-84-13-78-216.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, not quite < 1349544102 911222 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But they don't really know what time it is. < 1349544105 570094 :atriq!~nathan@host-84-13-78-216.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps Conjugation < 1349544107 52555 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It's kind of a philosophical question, I suppose. < 1349544127 998220 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OKAY LET'S TRY THIS. < 1349544130 126606 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1349544145 829300 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's elliott doing < 1349544156 973646 :atriq!~nathan@host-84-13-78-216.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trying to achieve enlightenment < 1349544171 307952 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :leaving for the last time over and over again < 1349544428 376916 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, we had a word for that back at rationalwiki < 1349544583 815899 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1349544588 778523 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: HELP. < 1349544596 777572 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I feel so future that I want to switch to GPT. < 1349544612 968342 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried that, didn't boot < 1349544616 564935 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It's your funeral" is I think the phrase. < 1349544629 998903 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it does sound like a natural thing to do. < 1349544638 445203 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the GPT data is all hidden and stuff, so getting rid of it is surprisingly tricky < 1349544654 344836 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4d0b7082.pool.mediaWays.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1349544692 408850 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll try setting up ntp to, you know, stave it off. < 1349544727 761117 :atriq!~nathan@host-84-13-78-216.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aaaargh < 1349544731 410941 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not quite sure what GPT is supposed to give you that the good ol' crap doesn't < 1349544738 865564 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: A sense of the future. < 1349544740 873104 :atriq!~nathan@host-84-13-78-216.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who can I poke about the GEDCOM specs < 1349544764 131301 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might easily consider GPT if setting up a computer right now. < 1349544783 818591 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wish i could consider things like that < 1349544785 498863 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not so sure about breaking an existing setup in order to do that. < 1349544807 270012 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my laptop has like 3 mystery partitions that i can't bring myself to risk messing with < 1349544817 838447 :atriq!~nathan@host-84-13-78-216.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, can I ask you annoying questions regarding the GEDCOM specifications? < 1349544824 926166 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fire away < 1349544837 222153 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the laptop that was set up maybe a year or so ago there was mostly the issue that it needed to dual-boot to Windows and it was a BIOS system. < 1349544856 946430 :atriq!~nathan@host-84-13-78-216.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the definition of FAMILY_EVENT_STRUCTURE, what does the [Y|] represent? < 1349544877 337527 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the void in the soul of the sinner < 1349544879 893572 :jiella!~jiella@cs27103076.pp.htv.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1349544898 827820 :atriq!~nathan@host-84-13-78-216.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome jiella < 1349544904 584815 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :jiella: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) < 1349544922 145649 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :jiella, a small jier < 1349544963 563787 :atriq!~nathan@host-84-13-78-216.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :jiella, did you want welcoming? < 1349545003 804973 :jiella!~jiella@cs27103076.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Err. < 1349545007 12225 :jiella!~jiella@cs27103076.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really. < 1349545013 372275 :jiella!~jiella@cs27103076.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :This attention is kind of creepy. < 1349545022 710261 :atriq!~nathan@host-84-13-78-216.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you in Finland? < 1349545030 614359 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you in hexham < 1349545032 125533 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? finland < 1349545035 133889 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finland is a European country. There are two people in Finland, and at least nine of them are in this channel. Corun drives the bus. < 1349545036 16752 :jiella!~jiella@cs27103076.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do you ask? < 1349545047 779066 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no reason < 1349545049 954621 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just curious < 1349545065 75270 :atriq!~nathan@host-84-13-78-216.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because this is one of the English-language channels with the largest Finn density < 1349545081 145989 :atriq!~nathan@host-84-13-78-216.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also Hexhamite density < 1349545084 923415 :atriq!~nathan@host-84-13-78-216.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, dinner, bbl < 1349545085 801679 :atriq!~nathan@host-84-13-78-216.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1349545139 939967 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also this is what we do to all new people < 1349545146 637775 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we are a lonely bunch < 1349545151 363489 :jiella!~jiella@cs27103076.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'm not new. < 1349545156 174958 :jiella!~jiella@cs27103076.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really. < 1349545165 76023 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi jiella < 1349545165 270327 :jiella!~jiella@cs27103076.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been here more or less for... four years now? < 1349545172 29805 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hexham or Finland? < 1349545181 10427 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we also do it to people we haven't seen lately < 1349545186 74655 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and some people we have < 1349545186 712684 :jiella!~jiella@cs27103076.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finland. < 1349545190 976913 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`WELCOME jiella < 1349545194 470980 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :JIELLA: WELCOME TO THE INTERNATIONAL HUB FOR ESOTERIC PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE DESIGN AND DEPLOYMENT! FOR MORE INFORMATION, CHECK OUT OUR WIKI: HTTP://ESOLANGS.ORG/WIKI/MAIN_PAGE. (FOR THE OTHER KIND OF ESOTERICA, TRY #ESOTERIC ON IRC.DAL.NET.) < 1349545208 757265 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? sweden < 1349545212 329051 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sweden is the suburb capital of Norway. It's where all the Nobel prizes are announced, except the Math Prize. < 1349545220 800224 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? norway < 1349545223 148655 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was getting cold so now I'm compiling GHC to warm me up. < 1349545224 616519 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Norway is the suburb capital of Sweden. It's where the Nobel Peace Prize is announced. < 1349545240 771270 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? denmark < 1349545243 520641 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :denmark? ¯\(°_o)/¯ < 1349545244 374615 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :jiella, so uh what nick did you use before < 1349545249 602859 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? iceland < 1349545252 902732 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :iceland? ¯\(°_o)/¯ < 1349545261 269036 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? scotland < 1349545264 333893 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :scotland? ¯\(°_o)/¯ < 1349545269 894772 :jiella!~jiella@cs27103076.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Several. You won't remember them. I say something perhaps every six months or so. < 1349545280 967520 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you sftp < 1349545327 508534 :jiella!~jiella@cs27103076.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. you're not going to go through a bunch of nicknames, are you? < 1349545333 838451 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1349545344 853733 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sshc < 1349545345 49526 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: What are you doing here? < 1349545348 686589 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :This isn't your channel. < 1349545350 100426 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@fresh < 1349545350 295252 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haht < 1349545356 991273 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: fizzie let me < 1349545359 645419 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in < 1349545361 875582 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't that right fizzie < 1349545364 350393 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :@help fresh < 1349545364 545154 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fresh provides: freshname < 1349545365 62536 :Nisstyre-laptop!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1349545368 955911 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :@fresh < 1349545369 150329 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hahu < 1349545372 842997 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric : wrong < 1349545376 667008 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@help freshname < 1349545376 861684 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :freshname. Return a unique Haskell project name. < 1349545386 657958 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@fresh < 1349545386 852990 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hahv < 1349545418 942963 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ sudo systemctl enable ntpd.service < 1349545419 137761 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ln -s '/usr/lib/systemd/system/ntpd.service' '/etc/systemd/system/multi-user.target.wants/ntpd.service' < 1349545420 892882 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The most futurest. < 1349545421 516866 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :@fresh < 1349545421 735721 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hahw < 1349545429 109337 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :@freshname < 1349545429 305874 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hahx < 1349545440 308288 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, I wonder how to get it to enable it now/. < 1349545445 112855 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just increments the letter < 1349545477 684654 :Nisstyre-laptop!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre JOIN :#esoteric < 1349545479 620745 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Is HEAD GHC building for you? < 1349545485 813713 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't build HEAD. < 1349545487 211060 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :reinventing init seems to be almost as much fun as adding levels of boot loaders < 1349545498 927500 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Well, in fairness, init is pretty terribly-designed. < 1349545507 283270 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :systemd is better. Not perfect, but... better. < 1349545508 521492 :Nisstyre-laptop!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1349545528 520702 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least it just runs a bunch of stuff dependency-wise in parallel rather than the tangle of tasks old init does. < 1349545539 52147 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, but everything sucks anyway, so why add the choice of new kinds of suckage < 1349545573 542810 :Nisstyre-laptop!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre JOIN :#esoteric < 1349545583 35047 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose it would be alright if there was one better init instead of a hundred < 1349545590 226313 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's faster suckage, olsner. < 1349545642 866413 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, "sudo systemctl start multi-user.target" did it. < 1349545643 61200 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's a good thing < 1349545653 158142 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1349545688 792337 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Hey, how do I tell if my luck is... uh... ntp'd? < 1349545694 353990 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ntpd is running, but I don't know if it's... thinging. < 1349545780 527069 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :ntptime seems to print some stats about that < 1349545795 995495 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Thank you, fizzie. < 1349545811 776739 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: "Startup finished in 5173ms (kernel) + 11636ms (userspace) = 16810ms". < 1349545818 117426 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does YOUR system start up in 16810 ms??? < 1349545824 782409 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :lrwxrwxrwx 1 shachaf shachaf 9 Sep 6 15:26 /home/shachaf/.ghc/ghci_history -> /dev/null < 1349545844 951689 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: how often do you start your system? < 1349545850 35204 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Like, EVERY DAY. < 1349545854 273231 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need the fastest suckage. :( < 1349545860 686320 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-24-31-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: My *distro* boots in 3. :) < 1349545876 520978 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: I don't believe your distro boots in 3 ms. < 1349545879 686242 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-24-31-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :3s < 1349545883 791198 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not ms!! < 1349545889 253771 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-24-31-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :3000ms Happy? < 1349545908 598382 :jiella!~jiella@cs27103076.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: No. At least I don't think so. < 1349545988 677471 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :at normal rebooting rate my system has about 25 minutes to boot before it spends more time booting than your 16810ms system < 1349545989 913091 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: I'm actually never happy. < 1349546015 283185 :Ginto8!~ginto8@pool-173-72-20-92.cmdnnj.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1349546035 951179 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Upstart needs some kind of an extra thing to collect statistics, so I don't really know. (I did see a recent systemd user be all "look at all these statistics I get by default" on me, I think you can get very detailed boot-timings out of it.) < 1349546091 713786 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least I'm under the impression the Ubuntu box has upstart involved. The Debians don't really get booted. < 1349546139 326659 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I can do this: http://sprunge.us/dIMG < 1349546142 772227 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also works with bootchart, apparently. < 1349546161 846612 :hagb4rd!~perdito@p4FED4E6C.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1349546353 511877 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Do I have to do something special to check whether my BIOS supports GPT? < 1349546361 355512 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really know what can go wrong. < 1349546398 561192 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd guess that it doesn't .. then again it might have it, or if it has support the support might not work < 1349546410 503237 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and if the gpt support is there and works, it might only be able to boot windows < 1349546412 647585 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-24-31-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: If it's a BIOS, it doesn't. < 1349546422 336518 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-24-31-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, BIOS also doesn't support DOS partitions. < 1349546437 584098 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-24-31-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The BIOS's concept of partitioning is "load the first sector"... < 1349546453 514549 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-24-31-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you're not using UEFI, you simply need an MBR that groks GPT. < 1349546460 820672 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Right. < 1349546469 345715 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: And I guess GRUB2 does that. < 1349546477 552288 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Do you use GPT??? Maybe I can be "ahead of the pack".) < 1349546484 737590 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-24-31-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Currently I don't. < 1349546488 567448 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-24-31-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My next system will. < 1349546497 409383 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there some kind of hack you can do to get Windows booting from GPT? < 1349546499 550690 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-24-31-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still on an LVM setup. < 1349546504 518956 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some kind of chainloading nonsense or the like. < 1349546533 563601 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Also will this break /dev/sda2 and the like? I remember those having different names on OS X, which uses GPT.) < 1349546550 946472 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-24-31-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, no, pretty sure Windows only supports booting from GPT if booted from UEFI... < 1349546648 154511 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-24-31-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It shouldn't. Linux's partition numbering is not based in DOS partitioning, but rather its generic partition handling code. Aside from that low level bit in the kernel, GPT is indistinct from all other partition formats. < 1349546681 972160 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-24-31-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Including BSD disklabels, classic Mac OS partitions, and anything else anyone was crazy enough to implement. < 1349546708 772307 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1349546718 51173 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would sort of like to not totally lock myself out of booting Windows. < 1349546724 597592 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though I suppose I'm not likely to actually do so. < 1349546729 864454 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a way to convert GPT back to MBR? :p < 1349546817 333512 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-24-31-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :gdisk's "g" command. < 1349546828 816204 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-24-31-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, awesomer. < 1349546835 780790 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-24-31-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could create a "hybrid MBR"... < 1349546843 971501 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that like what Boot Camp does on OS X? < 1349546845 373568 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeDOS boots much faster < 1349546845 568630 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: You have 7 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. < 1349546847 839017 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-24-31-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1349546850 149541 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It makes an MBR and synchronises that with the GPT or something. < 1349546853 912982 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that well-supported on Linux? < 1349546856 714846 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :?messages? < 1349546856 910066 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: You have 7 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. < 1349546858 784347 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :?messages < 1349546859 33739 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo said 1m 8d 51m 9s ago: Now you have a message. < 1349546859 229219 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan said 3h 32m 48s ago: I think the DotFami mapper codes actually form a idempotent commutative monoid, rather than just being a monoid. <-- i think an idempotent commutative monoid may < 1349546859 424485 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the same as a semilattice < 1349546859 424683 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan said 3h 31m 42s ago: *may be < 1349546859 424790 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan said 3h 28m 48s ago: Does the Haskell compiler know that equality is reflexive? <-- it actually isn't, for Double (NaN) < 1349546861 34732 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan said 3h 23m 38s ago: Actually, a it's a semilattice with a bottom element (the mempty). < 1349546863 35865 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan said 3h 23m 23s ago: *-a < 1349546863 478299 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :?messages < 1349546865 35943 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan said 3h 21m 3s ago: From wikipedia: "A bounded semilattice is an idempotent commutative monoid." < 1349546867 37048 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't have any new messages. < 1349546867 496789 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :All I remember is it is sort of a pain when they get out of sync. < 1349546910 335495 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-24-31-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux appears to be fussy if the first partition on disk is not EFI. < 1349546943 317888 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-24-31-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, not GPT. < 1349546962 889680 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-24-31-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, yeah. As part of its GPT support it needs the first partition to be an EFI partition. < 1349546975 337277 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1349546978 828048 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-24-31-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, if that's the case it'll just ignore the DOS partitions. < 1349546984 12367 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I assume that doesn't mean I have to run EFI?) < 1349546996 423991 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-24-31-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't mean that at all. < 1349547004 78167 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-24-31-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's just the partition EFI would read from if it existed. < 1349547033 984918 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1349547036 734619 :atriq!~nathan@host-84-13-78-216.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1349547110 222570 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-24-31-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Windows will gleefully ignore the GPT partitions. < 1349547201 343854 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-24-31-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hahah. And FreeBSD has the best hybrid MBR support possible. < 1349547219 289941 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-24-31-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Faced with a hybrid setup, it parses both the GPT and classic partition headers. < 1349547226 876783 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-24-31-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you get device files for both. < 1349547246 908074 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds bad if they are duplicates < 1349547261 17368 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-24-31-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also has logic preventing badness. < 1349547267 686546 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1349547280 735485 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Why doesn't Linux do that? < 1349547284 342659 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-24-31-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: Beats me. < 1349547290 501687 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-24-31-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait, duh. < 1349547302 210009 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-24-31-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because Linux's partition numbering scheme doesn't quite handle that case well. < 1349547309 623669 :atriq!~nathan@host-84-13-78-216.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1349547327 359625 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-24-31-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :/dev/sdaN doesn't work nicely for parallel partition numbers < 1349547350 297846 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-24-31-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :/dev/da0pN and /dev/da0sN does, though. < 1349547489 385856 :atriq!~nathan@host-84-13-78-216.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am REALLY bad at coming up with names < 1349547520 93759 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Couldn't it just use more numbers < 1349547547 268714 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-24-31-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: Still doesn't quite seem right. Some of those numbers will refer to the same blocks. < 1349547565 368017 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Do you know of a login manager that doesn't depend on ConsoleKit? < 1349547573 286482 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Login manager. I mean display manager thing. < 1349547614 846559 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-24-31-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think LXDE does. < 1349547628 960305 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-24-31-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also XDM. < 1349547650 103323 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I... guess I could use XDM. < 1349547658 858557 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1349547849 683575 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1349547856 89363 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: You use systemd, right? < 1349547863 355197 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-24-31-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah. < 1349547880 186000 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-24-31-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use stock init ATM, at one point I'd like to distro-like-crazy and use runit. < 1349547918 286882 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Can you start using systemd so I can ask questions about it? :p < 1349547953 368733 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-24-31-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd rather not. I'm not much of a Lennart fan. :P < 1349547973 380885 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-24-31-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(to fix problems with pulseaudio, do: apt-get remove pulseaudio ) < 1349547984 496067 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: I prefer purge < 1349547996 626400 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Also, I'm not entirely convinced that doing that won't fix problems even if pulseaudio isn't installed < 1349548011 177979 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use systemd < 1349548014 643832 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not pulseaudio though < 1349548016 502549 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: I don't like PulseAudio, but systemd is quite nice. < 1349548019 791661 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least so far. < 1349548034 132111 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC runit doesn't actually work properly as PID 1? < 1349548075 246197 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1349548078 687140 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: Do you happen to use Arch also? < 1349548098 382677 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1349548142 880524 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-24-31-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yeah, but PID 1 does not need to do much. < 1349548169 846952 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: Do you happen to know if I still need "fsck" in the HOOKS list in /etc/mkinitcpio.conf if I'm using systemd, since it seems to run its own systemd-fsck thing by itself? (Although it also seems to only run it on /dev/sda1, which might have something to do with /dev/sda2 being JFS...) < 1349548187 696624 :ogrom!~del@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee QUIT :Quit: Left < 1349548190 269093 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I have no idea < 1349548201 373125 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-24-31-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/QAQe That does everything init needs to do. < 1349548204 647141 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: Well, you were almost useful :P < 1349548204 919844 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Tried asking in #archlinux? < 1349548216 101261 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Well, no, but I don't like the idea of having an /etc/rc.start or whatever that "just" sets up filesystems and the network and so on... those can fit perfectly fine into a dependency-ish system like systemd does. < 1349548244 995856 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: I probably should, yes. But I'll try floundering about messing with it for a bit more first. < 1349548258 577599 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-24-31-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :for(;;) wait(&status); is all PID 1 does for the rest of the system run, FWIW. < 1349548276 826164 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1349548285 827613 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I know that much. < 1349548291 864760 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, you have an /etc/rc there which is the real problem. < 1349548312 662238 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1349548314 112465 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-24-31-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Ideally, perhaps. But systemd's approach appears to be "shove everything into a single process that, if it fails, crashes the *entire system*"... < 1349548332 160439 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: That, uh, applies to every PID 1. < 1349548336 381032 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-24-31-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1349548347 342295 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-24-31-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hence why PID 1 should be for(;;) wait(&status); < 1349548354 568001 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-24-31-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nearly impossible to crash. < 1349548365 360217 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-24-31-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it does crash, your system is already FUBAR'd. < 1349548377 28831 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: What's *your* opinion on this? < 1349548398 132162 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-24-31-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd love for a better dependency-based boot scheme though. < 1349548406 524791 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-24-31-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just don't feel systemd is the correct approach. < 1349548427 443964 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-24-31-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does *resemble* the correct approach, but still... < 1349548464 532089 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Well it's less maintenance than having to manually fiddle about with a monolithic /etc/rc, even if it's theoretically less stable in the worst case. < 1349548528 872154 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi opinion on what < 1349548548 881274 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: Damn. < 1349548554 506793 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: I was hoping to trick you again. < 1349548573 218641 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :only 1 message < 1349548573 413380 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-24-31-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've also got issues with PID 1 dbus. < 1349548576 150627 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tsk tsk tsk < 1349548650 929649 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: Tsk yourself, I've been too busy living in the future. < 1349548711 987248 :sirdancealot!~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1349548715 503212 :atriq!~nathan@host-84-13-78-216.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1349548738 127959 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-24-31-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've also got this weird thing where I want everything using *less* code... I mean, I find zlib offensive. < 1349548789 749656 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: I'm so far in the future that /etc/rc.conf stopped existing :'( < 1349548810 427059 :sirdancealot7!~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz JOIN :#esoteric < 1349548971 105146 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i still have /etc/rc.conf but all that's in it is the DAEMONS array < 1349549020 696930 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: I don't even have that!! < 1349549023 389656 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :My /etc/inittab also disappeared. < 1349549175 431834 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: Also I can do fancy things like this!! http://sprunge.us/gSGG you can't see it there but "active (running)" is green < 1349549280 332324 :jiella_!~jiella@cs27103076.pp.htv.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1349549362 110696 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1349549371 339772 :jiella!~jiella@cs27103076.pp.htv.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1349549677 195322 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1349549757 297159 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: OK well do you use GRUB 2 < 1349550212 465030 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-24-31-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1349550226 49980 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay. < 1349550247 859998 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know how to get it to skip the menu and just boot up in three seconds unless I press ESC? I've tried setting up the hidden menu stuff, but it ends up doing the countdown, and *then* showing the menu once the countdown expires. < 1349550251 877396 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which seems... wrong. < 1349550384 667618 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1349550519 316932 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Also do you still use that crazy dzen2 dbus thing? < 1349550779 38169 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Regarding the earlier, I plead the saunath of not answering. < 1349550796 124528 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :But people dual-boot Windows on systems with a dual GPT + MBR-emulation setup. < 1349550804 562417 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a bit arguable whether that makes any sense. < 1349550812 257360 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Regarding the latter, yes. < 1349550894 56426 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everyone keeps saying I should adopt the XMonad view of there being a single set of workspaces shared between the monitors, but I'm just so stuck with this IndependentScreens thing. < 1349550911 716982 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Okay, "everyone" here means like one person who wasn't even talking to me. But still.) < 1349551160 801711 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The latest versions [of caesium clocks] are accurate to better than 1 part in 10^15, which means they would be off by about 2 seconds since the extinction of the dinosaurs 65 million years ago --" two seconds?! < 1349551173 960399 :ogrom!~del@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1349551389 814833 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Why does passing -fn '-*-terminus-medium-r-*-*-20-*-*-*-*-*-*-*' do the wrong thing? :( < 1349551400 405668 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It shows me DejaVu Sans at 20 pixels or whatever. < 1349551403 799711 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :To dzen2, I mean. < 1349551453 756827 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, but I've been having really stupid problems with dzen2 compiled to support xft when trying to use the usual X logical font descriptors like that. < 1349551467 78308 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I blame fontconfig. It might not be its fault, but I still blame it somehow. < 1349551497 700404 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(When you compile dzen2 to "support Xft", it actually uses Xft for everything. In *theory*, it should be possible to use bitmap fonts and XLFDs, but...) < 1349551508 692269 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Terminus:pixelsize=20 does the same thing. < 1349551520 303430 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you're going to be using '-*-terminus-medium-r-*-*-20-*-*-*-*-*-*-*' exclusively, there's an easy fix of just compiling it without Xft support. < 1349551536 637554 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ubuntu for example has a default fontconfig file hidden deep in /etc that disables all pixel fonts. < 1349551553 407177 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :/etc/fonts/conf.d/70-no-bitmaps.conf that is. < 1349551568 53628 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : If you're going to be using '-*-terminus-medium-r-*-*-20-*-*-*-*-*-*-*' exclusively, there's an easy fix of just compiling it without Xft support. < 1349551574 887928 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "easy fix" involving "not using the standard Arch binary package for it". < 1349551582 983579 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, there's that. < 1349551597 919160 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do have some somewhat suspicious 29-replace-bitmap-fonts.conf and 70-no-bitmaps.conf files. < 1349551629 491106 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hokay, unlinking the latter has helped. < 1349551637 767500 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. It's possible to per-user "undo" those by suitable configuration in ~/...whateveritwas, but fontconfig configuration is such pain. < 1349551639 189162 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now dzen2 uses some really shockingly beyond-belief godawful font by default. < 1349551667 494146 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just using scalable fonts these days. *shame* < 1349551669 714863 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Feel my pain: http://i.imgur.com/mgTSb.png < 1349551679 963272 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I don't mind scalable fonts, of course. < 1349551682 598033 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I've seen that thing. < 1349551683 853690 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Terminus thing is a long story. < 1349551689 34591 :atriq!~nathan@host-84-13-78-216.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1349551749 356897 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used the SunOS console font for a while on some moderately-high-DPI screen. < 1349551765 208757 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1349551765 607033 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it had a very good Unicode support though. < 1349551816 350088 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do wonder if that open-source Source Code from Adobe is any good at my point sizes and resomolutions. < 1349551818 67255 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :important question, am i joinspamming < 1349551849 902700 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Is there, uh, a nice way to get dzen2 to start at the bottom? < 1349551858 803669 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also I don't like Source Code; it's way too wide and not tall enough. < 1349551912 97188 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe not a "nice way"; it has -x -y -w -h parameters, but you'd need to do some math for "bottom". < 1349551947 648977 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The sort of complicated math of y=screenheight-barheight. < 1349551992 173707 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Alsoalso what was that thing you needed to do to align text rightmost in new dzen2? < 1349551994 162541 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some fancy code. < 1349552007 779911 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll grep for it, I can't remember ever. < 1349552052 142977 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric : There's an undocumented "make a fixed-width block of left/middle/right-aligned text" command ^ba -- sorta-described at http://dzen.geekmode.org/dwiki/doku.php?id=dzen:mainindex and not included (I believe) in the dzen2-0.8.5 stable version -- that can help. Then again, it might not; it's strictly fixed-width. < 1349552064 215559 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what source the Arch version uses. < 1349552068 728338 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :git. :p < 1349552077 722632 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that's good. < 1349552120 180985 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not entirely sure the example is right and not missing an underscore for the alignment specifier. But maybe it is. < 1349552151 705610 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric : else if(!strcmp(buf, "_RIGHT")) < 1349552151 900300 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric : *a = ALIGNRIGHT; < 1349552155 537830 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there an xmonad helper function thingy that just runs a shell line and returns the output? ISTR there is. < 1349552156 178647 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That does look a bit _ey. < 1349552266 868581 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :XMonad.Util.Run has some helpers. I don't see exactly that there, maybe it was somewhere else. < 1349552350 373905 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think System.Process might have something reasonably usable non-XMonad-specific too. Like readProcess. < 1349552367 202472 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"readProcess forks an external process, reads its standard output strictly, blocking until the process terminates, and returns the output string." < 1349552434 573572 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, there's spawn :: MonadIO m => String -> m () in XMonad.Core. < 1349552461 462886 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll try readProcess. < 1349552704 45657 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Oh, right, XMonad.Util.Run has a runProcessWithInput. < 1349552717 873630 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I skipped it because of the name, but it also returns the output, and you can just give "" as the input. < 1349552722 357996 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That might be it. < 1349552765 67174 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's :: MonadIO m => FilePath -> [String] -> String -> m String so it should work in IO or X or so on. < 1349552900 967934 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, logCmd "date +'%H:%M'" works for my purposes. < 1349552953 26359 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, so does date "%H:%M". < 1349552976 258058 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though apparently it... only updates when you switch workspaces. < 1349553050 347766 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The logHook should be called every time you switch focus, too. < 1349553066 604899 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :But not really much more oftener than that. < 1349553256 50562 :sebbu-!~sebbu@2402:1f00:2001:100::9387 JOIN :#esoteric < 1349553270 485732 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get these "dhclient: Discarding packet with bogus hlen."s nowadays. < 1349553318 596338 :Deewiant!~deewiant@109.75.188.190 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1349553318 596487 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :*.net *.split < 1349553319 187011 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca QUIT :*.net *.split < 1349553319 620947 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-24-31-176.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :*.net *.split < 1349553319 815788 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org QUIT :*.net *.split < 1349553319 815823 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch QUIT :*.net *.split < 1349553373 940496 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1349553374 135135 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-24-31-176.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1349553374 135297 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1349553374 135376 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch JOIN :#esoteric < 1349553403 319752 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I can't figure out what the width should be to have this work properly. < 1349553410 936732 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is a very silly thing. < 1349553425 79555 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: (Do you know of any way to get it called more cmmonly?) < 1349553426 874839 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*commonly < 1349553433 995521 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I might have to use your dbus thing if I want a clock and things. < 1349553443 956309 :atriq!~nathan@host-84-13-78-216.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :EgoBot is on a different server to Gregor and HackEgo? < 1349553503 971275 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Being connected to a different server isn't very interesting, the server you get connected to is more or less random. < 1349553507 673926 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I think generally speaking "most people" use xmobar; it's got widgets like clocks in addition to the xmonad-reading bits. < 1349553512 244425 :atriq!~nathan@host-84-13-78-216.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently there was both a Homestuck meetup and a Hetalia meetup in Newcastle together < 1349553518 667701 :atriq!~nathan@host-84-13-78-216.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*today < 1349553587 726228 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I can't use xmobar because of shachaf. < 1349553620 674112 :Nisstyre-laptop!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1349553703 923152 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Well, the dzen2 minority then use different kinds of "multiplexing" scripts, I believe. < 1349553729 687076 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1349553747 892210 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :dmplex has some kind of official status. < 1349553758 915549 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :In that it's at the dzen site and so on. < 1349553768 742650 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Got a link? < 1349553776 828079 :Nisstyre-laptop!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre JOIN :#esoteric < 1349553777 782747 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://dzen.geekmode.org/dwiki/doku.php?id=dzen:multiplexer has a link. < 1349553782 152663 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't used it at all. < 1349553839 985398 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it really use a named pipe. < 1349553873 505748 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well. It reads from the standard input. But the example setup does seem to use one. < 1349553899 354475 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, I've got that stupid dbus thing. And I don't have a clock anyway. < 1349553945 368191 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :XMonad has timers -- well, XMonad.Util.Timer does -- and some real xmonad person would probably know some kind of a hack that'd make it call the logHook when one fires. < 1349553968 534100 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1349554055 550420 :Deewiant!~deewiant@109.75.188.190 JOIN :#esoteric < 1349554440 387895 :atriq!~nathan@host-84-13-78-216.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir, are you following the League of Legends world championship < 1349554615 756983 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :racist < 1349554628 68305 :atriq!~nathan@host-84-13-78-216.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, are you? < 1349554648 978093 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1349554655 493519 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you want to join my racist club < 1349554933 608509 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forgot a ventilation window open while i was away. Some temperatures and the PC clock’s offset to GPS time from the same period: (yeah, all the things run too hot, i haven’t got around to doing something about the ventilation) http://heh.fi/collectd/img/temperature http://heh.fi/collectd/img/time-offset-gps < 1349555058 831150 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ion: that's disappointing, i was assuming you had discovered a temperature correction to relativity < 1349555550 666693 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn Scotland is a country in northern Britain. It is known for having no true inhabitants. < 1349555553 652178 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I knew that. < 1349555568 381972 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: fix < 1349555576 782664 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :what NOW < 1349555578 526911 :atriq!~nathan@host-84-13-78-216.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn Scotland is a country in northern Britain. It is known for having no true inhabitants. Phantom_Hoover looks after the FREEDOM. < 1349555582 528517 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I knew that. < 1349555583 421021 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ". " < 1349555586 511122 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :atriq: ". " < 1349555592 186038 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :sheesh < 1349555594 902292 :atriq!~nathan@host-84-13-78-216.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn Scotland is a country in northern Britain. It is known for having no true inhabitants. Phantom_Hoover looks after the FREEDOM. < 1349555598 74091 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I knew that. < 1349555616 406190 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? england < 1349555619 912159 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :england? ¯\(°_o)/¯ < 1349555623 116686 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although i'm looking after it in england these days < 1349555649 760599 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :England is where the crumpets live < 1349555685 272240 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn England is a country in southern Britain, with capital Hexham. The people there are all punctuation fascists. ais523 looks after the Turing machines. < 1349555688 846526 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I knew that. < 1349555726 716578 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn England < 1349555730 117857 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I knew that. < 1349555730 979866 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? england < 1349555733 640351 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :England is a country in southern Britain, with capital Hexham. The people there are all punctuation fascists. ais523 looks after the Turing machines. < 1349555737 510118 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no!! < 1349555740 457932 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay! < 1349555770 543107 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run ls wisdom/en* < 1349555774 301720 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :wisdom/endofunctor \ wisdom/england < 1349555789 49205 :sebbu-!~sebbu@2402:1f00:2001:100::9387 NICK :sebbu < 1349555789 588795 :sebbu!~sebbu@2402:1f00:2001:100::9387 QUIT :Changing host < 1349555789 783283 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1349555863 234952 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run rm -rf wisdom < 1349555866 777874 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1349555880 566134 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run ls wisdow/en* < 1349555883 806522 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ls: cannot access wisdow/en*: No such file or directory < 1349555902 208360 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry D: < 1349555908 922493 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? england < 1349555912 439457 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :england? ¯\(°_o)/¯ < 1349555915 410061 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`revert < 1349555918 95188 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done. < 1349555921 470976 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? england < 1349555925 91205 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :England < 1349555930 100036 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :aaaaa < 1349555947 781680 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? scotland < 1349555951 356264 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scotland is a country in northern Britain. It is known for having no true inhabitants. Phantom_Hoover looks after the FREEDOM. < 1349555983 430207 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn Scotland is a country in northern Britain. It is known for having no true inhabitants. The official religion is hatheism. Phantom_Hoover looks after the FREEDOM. < 1349555986 530901 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I knew that. < 1349556017 440475 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn England is [EXPUNGED]. < 1349556021 210653 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I knew that. < 1349556024 938678 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo "I like pie" >> wisdom/pie < 1349556028 428 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1349556030 878739 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? pie < 1349556034 508944 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like pie < 1349556044 558097 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo "I like pie" >> wisdom/pie < 1349556048 248970 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1349556049 215653 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? pie < 1349556052 120451 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like pie \ I like pie < 1349556069 863629 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Do you like position-independent executables? < 1349556071 281005 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: and resource files as ascii have the same feelings, too. i'm pretty sure you'd just use fnord in load or on the author's part, mostly. direct to-c translation, no gc ( iirc) from the console < 1349556077 719457 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see, "\n" becomes " \\ " < 1349556195 829624 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn pi is a very round number. < 1349556199 178040 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I knew that. < 1349556206 754152 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`revert < 1349556209 547070 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done. < 1349556211 845194 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :puntastically round < 1349556212 845208 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? pi < 1349556216 176811 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :pi? ¯\(°_o)/¯ < 1349556218 90825 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn pi is a very round number. < 1349556221 474555 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I knew that. < 1349556274 627221 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? oerjan < 1349556277 731448 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your evil overlord oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a lying Norwegian. < 1349556285 649269 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? FreeFull < 1349556288 822261 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull? ¯\(°_o)/¯ < 1349556320 369854 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn FreeFull is either full of freedom or free of fulldom, we are not sure. < 1349556323 998274 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I knew that. < 1349556359 215163 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo -ne "F\rr\re\reFull likes messing around way too much" >> wisdom/FreeFull < 1349556362 653267 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1349556367 833204 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? FreeFull < 1349556371 11494 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull is either full of freedom or free of fulldom, we are not sure. < 1349556381 537144 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Has to be lowercase then < 1349556383 227627 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`rm wisdom/FreeFull < 1349556386 88058 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you make a hardware description language based only on multiplexers? There is a esolang software programming language Muxcomp which is design of a computer based only on multiplexers. < 1349556386 561407 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1349556388 944496 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo -ne "F\rr\re\reFull likes messing around way too much" >> wisdom/freefull < 1349556392 514919 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1349556397 173961 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? FreeFull < 1349556401 421478 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull is either full of freedom or free of fulldom, we are not sure. \ F.r.e.eFull likes messing around way too much < 1349556429 661220 :nortti!nortti@dsl-hkibrasgw3-ff25c000-52.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P http://thedailywtf.com/Articles/Known-Bad-Code.aspx < 1349556838 525209 :atriq!~nathan@host-84-13-78-216.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm in a Skype group call with someone who's asleep < 1349556853 183301 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :k < 1349556859 768900 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :are they snoring? < 1349556865 899469 :atriq!~nathan@host-84-13-78-216.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :She was whimpering < 1349556868 437449 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmmm < 1349556872 293735 :atriq!~nathan@host-84-13-78-216.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :She's woken up again, thoguh < 1349556903 615249 :atriq!~nathan@host-84-13-78-216.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :She's asleep agaiN! < 1349556923 137431 :atriq!~nathan@host-84-13-78-216.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :She's... < 1349556926 541239 :atriq!~nathan@host-84-13-78-216.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Started apologizing < 1349556929 30298 :atriq!~nathan@host-84-13-78-216.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In her sleep < 1349556977 48435 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so imagine I'm programming in C; I create a string with char *p = malloc(strlen(s) * sizeof(char)); and later I make this string shorter (possibly much shorter), can I do something like free(p+k+1); where k is the new length? < 1349557003 932602 :atriq!~nathan@host-84-13-78-216.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, apparently she's got a head injury and blacks out from time to time < 1349557017 381782 :atriq!~nathan@host-84-13-78-216.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doctor says it's either gonna last a month or it's permanent < 1349557017 576325 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arc_Koen: No, but you can call realloc on it. < 1349557034 944253 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not guaranteed to actually free up any storage, of course. < 1349557039 93135 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arc_Koen: sizeof(char) is 1, and you're forgetting to allocate a byte for the null < 1349557045 108929 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those, too. < 1349557064 686279 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: the null already is in s < 1349557071 25886 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arc_Koen: But not counted by strlen. < 1349557078 263353 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1349557091 531072 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it worked?! < 1349557095 238146 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :If doing realloc, remember that it's also allowed to move the string, invalidating any other copies of the pointer you might have lying around. < 1349557101 63052 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, undefined behaviour is allowed to work. < 1349557108 263507 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite often allocation isn't all that exact anyway. < 1349557153 401244 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1349557199 222199 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: elliott is evil, he censored my reveals of english secrets! < 1349557252 595858 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh dear < 1349557261 635972 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are 10 episodes of the armando ianucci shows < 1349557274 148133 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I have no idea what I'd use realloc for; I only wanted to free the remaining of the string because my paranoid aspy told me placing a new '\0' in the middle of the string would cause the remaining to be lost forever < 1349557292 646421 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"free the remaining of the string" makes no sense < 1349557316 383036 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well imagine I use malloc to get a string of 1000 characters < 1349557329 243063 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know what you mean, but it makes no sense. < 1349557331 723618 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arc_Koen: "free the remaining of the string" is what you could do with realloc; resize the block of memory to fit exactly the new string. < 1349557343 904842 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then I decide only the first 10 are relevant, so I place a '\0' after the tenth character < 1349557344 101635 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arc_Koen: But if you're not worried about memory consumption, there's really no reason to do it. < 1349557351 935075 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :placing a magic value in the middle of a string will indeed have magic effects on the rest of the string < 1349557368 335947 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arc_Koen: If you free(p) it will free what was allocated, and doesn't care about the contents of those bytes. < 1349557371 960292 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok I guess I won't do it then < 1349557388 695466 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: that's why I wanted to free(p+k+1) < 1349557419 903821 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arc_Koen: Uh. I'm not quite getting it. < 1349557436 497312 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arc_Koen: You can't free p+k+1, because it is not a thing that was allocated by malloc. < 1349557441 35604 :ogrom!~del@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee QUIT :Quit: Left < 1349557442 143385 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: If you do p[10] = 0 to truncate a string then Arc_Koen is saying free(&p[11]). < 1349557444 148458 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, ok < 1349557448 993287 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(But that's not how allocation works.) < 1349557453 231679 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Hey, what border widths and colours do you use in xmonad?? < 1349557462 488498 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SURVEY. < 1349557478 672050 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :free can only take the exact pointer that's returned by malloc < 1349557479 728303 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes, I got that much. But I just explained that free(p) will free all of p even if you put a 0 in there, so it felt somehow incongruous to get an answer of "that's why I want to free the trailing part". < 1349557483 626774 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or by calloc < 1349557485 322385 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing else < 1349557495 259918 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: Not true. < 1349557495 465497 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: Also one that was returned by realloc. < 1349557500 612984 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: free can also take NULL IIRC. < 1349557506 352902 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That, too. < 1349557510 687212 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yeah, NULL too < 1349557521 696167 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it gets NULL, it just returns successfully < 1349557527 994001 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, about that +1 I forgot in the malloc (for the null character), the fact that the program still worked well without it, does it mean it happened to have placed that '\0' on a not-free byte without causing a segfault? < 1349557531 436083 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: realloc(NULL, 42); is equivalent to malloc(42); and then you can later free that pointer. < 1349557542 888999 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arc_Koen: Yes < 1349557545 482318 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, free on NULL is a no-op ... lots of people miss that and add one or more layers of null checks just because < 1349557550 777780 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, not necessarily, but it is possible < 1349557559 70780 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm using a border width of 1 and colors that I don't think I have configured. It's some kind of a grey for non-focus, red for focus. < 1349557583 157946 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I just destroyed a char from my computer? I thought that was what segfaults were supposed to prevent! < 1349557588 588666 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Anything not allocated by the C *alloc functions then =P < 1349557593 534706 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arc_Koen: It's also possible that malloc for some reason returned a bit more than what you asked for, and the byte was in fact free. < 1349557612 612116 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arc_Koen: segfaults are caused by going onto an unmapped page of memory < 1349557621 874295 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pages are fairly coarse-grained units, typically 4kB or more < 1349557637 520940 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are nowhere near exact bounds checking < 1349557676 106281 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: I was going to be all "and then in C11 there's aligned_alloc" on you but your wildcard matches that too. :/ < 1349557691 174224 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arc_Koen: FSVO "destroyed". < 1349557703 260052 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arc_Koen: All you did was overwrite memory you weren't supposed to have btu were given anyway. < 1349557703 958490 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay globs < 1349557711 185012 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arc_Koen: Nobody else was affected, just you. < 1349557714 364195 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*but < 1349557734 590509 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, so I did not overwrite a byte I wasn't given? great :) < 1349557744 329129 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are only so many bits in the world, and every run of this program has destroyed 8 of them < 1349557752 429612 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arc_Koen: Depends on how big the string is < 1349557768 385486 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arc_Koen: Well, you overwrote a byte that you owned. It might have been part of some other string in your process, but not part of any other process. < 1349557790 451996 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the strlen happens to match the alignment, then the \0 will overwrite something else < 1349557793 803079 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(FSVO "owned".) < 1349557802 213877 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(As far as C is concerned you were trespassing.) < 1349557864 612841 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it's certainly not a thing to do, and can be fatal to the program itself. < 1349557921 242186 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: your allocation is probably rounded up at least to the nearest multiple of 4 or 8 (the alignment) < 1349557924 638986 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1349557930 433507 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Arc_Koen: < 1349557978 934007 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I switched to strncpy that should shut down the paranoia for now < 1349557997 770509 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and malloc might want to use even larger blocks to avoid fragmentation? i don't actually know whether it does. < 1349558036 232921 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are many mallocs, each making different tradeoffs < 1349558075 283812 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: I forget, did I ask you about that GRUB 2 menu thing? < 1349558136 637886 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : there are only so many bits in the world, and every run of this program has destroyed 8 of them <-- 2nd law says that's approximately true < 1349558170 328382 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I somewhat failed to not make sense there < 1349558227 612210 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless his program was reversible, of course. < 1349558236 412644 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arc_Koen: strncpy is a function that's somewhat hard to use right, FWIW. It's somewhat sad that strncpy is not to strcpy what e.g. strncat is to strcat. < 1349558324 742492 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : unsigned int p_length = strlen(argv[1]); char *p = malloc((p_length + 1) * sizeof(char)); strncpy(p, argv[1], p_length); < 1349558356 279155 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, use memcpy with p_length+1 instead < 1349558361 553136 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never used strcat before so i'm not sure how I should feel about strncpy < 1349558369 729318 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is one of the cases where you know exactly how much to copy < 1349558378 954824 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently to get gstreamer faac support i have to apt-get install gstreamer0.10-plugins-really-bad < 1349558391 120531 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-) < 1349558407 504904 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know it is very important to respect software patents while transcoding illegally acquired copyrighted TV shows < 1349558415 989893 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Verily. < 1349558423 30155 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arc_Koen: Well, that's safe. But it's easy to forget \0s at the end of strings with strncpy; and when it's done safely like that, it's often still needlessly inefficient because if the source string is shorter, it will still pad the whole destination with \0s. < 1349558437 530536 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arc_Koen: Oh, and yes, s/safe/unsafe/ < 1349558450 828195 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arc_Koen: Since it doesn't put the \0 there. You've just left a space for it. < 1349558459 657467 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT < 1349558461 425009 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you follow it with a p[p_length] = 0 it's safe. < 1349558488 344827 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arc_Koen: That's what strncpy does. It writes up to 'len' bytes, and if the source string is that long (or longer) the destination won't contain a \0. < 1349558502 99922 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I should've, like, used "strncpy(p, argv[1], p_length+1);" ?? < 1349558504 670700 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there any case where you really want to zero out the rest of the buffer? < 1349558537 606472 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that strncpy would say "oh look, argv[1] is one byte too short, let's put an extra '\0'" < 1349558546 497774 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arc_Koen: Well, that would've been safe, but in general no, because that won't put a \0 in the buffer if the source string is longer. < 1349558550 187845 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:21 ,cc char *s = "alongstringhere"; char buf[4] = {1,2,3,4}; strncpy(buf, s, (sizeof buf) - 1); printf("is there a null byte in buf? %d %d %d %d...", buf[0], buf[1], buf[2], buf[3]); < 1349558554 159658 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:21 fizzie: is there a null byte in buf? 97 108 111 4... < 1349558579 814445 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you call the above with "sizeof buf" without the - 1, you'll get "alon" in the characters and still no \0. < 1349558586 560481 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's why it's such a sucky function. < 1349558615 323157 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I second olsner's suggestion of using memcpy of p_length+1 since you really do want an exact copy of the original. < 1349558625 415488 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Or 'strdup' if you can live with its unportability, I suppose.) < 1349558633 901374 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It does both the allocation and copying.) < 1349558648 476130 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :is strdup unportable? < 1349558654 609356 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: It's not standard C. < 1349558656 722944 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : unsigned int p_length = strlen(argv[1]); char *p = malloc((p_length + 1) * sizeof(char)); memcpy(p, argv[1], p_length + 1); < 1349558680 969683 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, it appears to be posix not c < 1349558683 588301 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: So I suppose that depends on what "portable" means. It's certainly POSIX and common elsewhere too. < 1349558715 572247 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arc_Koen: that looks well and proper. Though I'd drop the sizeof(char). < 1349558735 166677 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought that was something I should always write < 1349558749 228105 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :like using '0' instead of 48 < 1349558750 643547 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arc_Koen: It's by definition 1. "sizeof" of anything else is measured in terms of how many 'char's there are in it. < 1349558759 178003 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :sizeof(char) is something you should never write :) < 1349558762 670867 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1349558774 959805 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure there are some people that will still argue for it. < 1349558789 521455 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, "if you change the array type then you'll remember the sizeof multiplication when it was there already". < 1349558805 15782 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though those people would have you writing char *p = malloc((p_length + 1) * sizeof *p) instead. < 1349558810 368134 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, that's true < 1349558814 418293 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Which is I guess fair enough.) < 1349558825 276470 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if I decide to replace all occurrences of "chat" with "int" < 1349558834 30049 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that's the kind of dumb things I do) < 1349558838 447459 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: transcoding :( < 1349558848 23944 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh yeah, I will change my string array to be an array of cake_t instead! < 1349558900 676075 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's wrong with transcoding elliott < 1349558937 855487 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's yucky < 1349558939 597102 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :feel free though! < 1349558940 511859 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes there is a quality loss but in this case i am scaling down by 40% so i think there's more quality loss there ;P < 1349558944 700166 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's borderline possible that someone might go along changing things to wchar_t's (or char32_t's or something) and also the string literals and forget to fix the allocation. But still. < 1349558979 433145 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :phone won't play 720p h264 :/ < 1349558994 161176 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the screen is only 800x480 anyway ;P < 1349558997 634703 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :- COMING IN 1991 - NEVADA SMITH IN... "JOURNEY TO THE CENTER OF THE EARTH" GEORGE BROUSSARD - AUTHOR < 1349559015 793882 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if the game referenced was actually made. < 1349559040 973650 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Watching things on phones is weird. < 1349559099 869570 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Things on phones" is probably some kind of fetish site. < 1349559116 557753 :atriq!~nathan@host-84-13-78-216.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now she's softly calling out for Kankri < 1349559118 885567 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's things like pictures of a brick on top of a phone there. < 1349559128 912248 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :atriq: What's a "Kankri"? < 1349559185 549321 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I don't suppose you happen to use GRUB 2 with menu-hidey options? < 1349559205 933785 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :atriq: Oh, never mind; I found out already. "Kankri is a village development committee in Rukum District in the Rapti Zone of western Nepal. At the time of the 1991 Nepal census it had a population of 4210 people living in 851 individual households." < 1349559212 785378 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Weird thing to call out for, though. < 1349559236 322977 :atriq!~nathan@host-84-13-78-216.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I believe she's referring to the Homestuck character < 1349559246 544069 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://help.ubuntu.com/community/AndroidVideoEncoding#MPEG4_.28standard.29_encoding this person's ffmpeg options seem highly suspect < 1349559250 442068 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, you've not been keeping up have you < 1349559270 452590 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Very much a negative. < 1349559282 728642 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :atriq appears to be listening to some sort of homestuck erotica < 1349559296 378465 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :out of character for him, but perhaps it has satellite appeals < 1349559299 438216 :atriq!~nathan@host-84-13-78-216.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of my friends suffers from a head injury < 1349559307 516037 :atriq!~nathan@host-84-13-78-216.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This leads her to black out from time to time < 1349559346 541280 :atriq!~nathan@host-84-13-78-216.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm in a group Skype call with her, and she's been blacking out a lot < 1349559380 60725 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh < 1349559382 755151 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds somewhat serious < 1349559384 45710 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I think I'm somewhere like end of act 5. < 1349559388 302050 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :she should probably be in hospital < 1349559395 503722 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, you haven't even watched cascade have you < 1349559395 698409 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: So about 1200 pages behind. < 1349559395 975465 :atriq!~nathan@host-84-13-78-216.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently Kankri refers to her boyfriend, who cosplays Kankri < 1349559399 287343 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're a year behind < 1349559399 758075 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: No. < 1349559402 653443 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yes. < 1349559420 158851 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't even know about half the cast any more < 1349559423 6260 :atriq!~nathan@host-84-13-78-216.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :She's seen a doctor and there's nothing they can do < 1349559425 375043 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: True. < 1349559429 60000 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PART #esoteric :"Leaving" < 1349559451 813050 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: But I'll catch up any day now. < 1349559455 648141 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, they can at least guess a little and prescribe some drugs < 1349559455 960374 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PART :#esoteric < 1349559464 144390 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :atriq, damn, what kind of head injury was this < 1349559467 613549 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :something antiepileptic perhaps? < 1349559476 960490 :atriq!~nathan@host-84-13-78-216.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slammed into a locker by a chav < 1349559499 52097 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am: glad i don't live in hexham < 1349559505 246974 :atriq!~nathan@host-84-13-78-216.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :She doesn't. < 1349559512 981992 :atriq!~nathan@host-84-13-78-216.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :She's elsewhere < 1349559518 164688 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck i'm in england now < 1349559520 801777 :atriq!~nathan@host-84-13-78-216.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's only about 3 readers of Homestuck in Hexham < 1349559534 66460 :atriq!~nathan@host-84-13-78-216.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're in Coventry. Coventry's practically France. You're safe. < 1349559557 190164 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was a dead body in the woods nearby! < 1349559570 304223 :atriq!~nathan@host-84-13-78-216.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Was it your body? < 1349559588 609807 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm possibly < 1349559621 748356 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was someone knifed about 400 metres from here a while ago. < 1349559638 909725 :atriq!~nathan@host-84-13-78-216.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was someone hammered to death in Hexham last year < 1349559683 813184 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alcohol kills < 1349559697 528929 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :switch statements in C don't need a default: condition, right? < 1349559725 340078 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arc_Koen: I think if you don't supply a default, it just does nothing for that case < 1349559757 299357 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arc_Koen: Right. < 1349559760 613788 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what I thought to and it worked; then I thought "maybe it does need it" so I added one and it crashed < 1349559764 957683 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :atriq, what happened to the chav < 1349559778 127269 :atriq!~nathan@host-84-13-78-216.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nobody knows < 1349559789 954396 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that is, "default: }" caused a syntax error) < 1349559794 950167 :atriq!~nathan@host-84-13-78-216.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mainly because she, due to the head injury, forgot which chav it was. < 1349559813 96190 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arc_Koen: That's because a label needs to point to a statement. < 1349559821 781359 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arc_Koen: "default: ; }" would be legal, if useless. < 1349559831 880247 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the perfect crime (i am the worst) < 1349559833 358965 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arc_Koen: (If there is no matching case and no default, the switch body is just skipped.) < 1349559879 331125 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :default: break; } < 1349559882 956263 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :cocaine's a hell of a drug < 1349559896 637700 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: Well, that's also legal and also useless. < 1349559909 586793 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you know S-Lang allows you to supply a number to break, so you can break out of nested loops < 1349559961 384734 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: Did you know Perl allows you to supply a label to break, so you can break out of a particularly labeled enclosing loop? < 1349559977 421314 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was something else with a numeric multilevel break, too. < 1349559990 634348 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :PHP, right. < 1349559998 400323 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"break accepts an optional numeric argument which tells it how many nested enclosing structures are to be broken out of." < 1349560006 13440 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably others too, of course. < 1349560055 596878 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Okay, in Perl's case it's "last" and not "break", but anyway.) < 1349560064 657316 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: a goto is C's labelled break =P < 1349560089 893472 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: Sure, though the label goes in the other end. < 1349560115 636424 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, i like perl's labeled break < 1349560144 529171 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOOP: while (...) { ...; last LOOP; ... } vs. while (...) { ...; goto GET_ME_OUT_OF_HERE; ... } GET_ME_OUT_OF_HERE: ... < 1349560187 47371 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :goto is a fine solution except that some programmers will run screaming in horror at any mention of goto < 1349560195 620919 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's CONSIDERED HARMFUL. < 1349560199 225783 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know, right? < 1349560230 329826 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is because like forty years ago, some propaganda was needed in order to convince programmers to use anything that *isn't* goto < 1349560243 939359 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :back when structured programming was a controversial new idea < 1349560265 837036 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :goto is used in the Linux kernel for handling errors < 1349560272 786126 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's cleaner than any other C solution < 1349560293 335750 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and people like hard rules because it absolves them of the need to think < 1349560294 218706 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1349560312 871174 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : fizzie: I don't suppose you happen to use GRUB 2 with menu-hidey options? < 1349560325 402315 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :The one useful hard rule for not writing bad code is "Don't write code, ever" < 1349560326 299300 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is why it's "goto is evil!!!!!" and not "goto is sometimes useful but should be avoided generally" < 1349560327 381164 :atriq!~nathan@host-84-13-78-216.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I have significant evidence suggesting that I'm going to play a video game that will destroy the world. < 1349560335 901906 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you don't write code, you can't write bad code :) < 1349560338 253607 :atriq!~nathan@host-84-13-78-216.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please advise. < 1349560339 104562 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm not sure what options those are. < 1349560343 475283 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :atriq: hi < 1349560350 801855 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the teaching of programming updates at a glacial speed compared to actual programming practice < 1349560353 71409 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Well, uh, do you get a menu when you start up GRUB? < 1349560365 35264 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I do. So I suppose I'm not. < 1349560368 442007 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You always get a menu if you hold shift while grub is loading < 1349560368 937151 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps in 2012 warning students over the evils of goto should not remain a high priority < 1349560373 992824 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: Yes. < 1349560397 568467 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Java doesn't even have a goto < 1349560416 700765 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :goto is a reserved keyword just so people can't use it < 1349560417 972822 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :atriq, are you playing sburb < 1349560434 705684 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah instead you use an AbstractSingletonControlFlowProxyFactoryIteratorBeanProxy < 1349560446 113483 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :much cleaner than goto < 1349560471 737852 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: It does have the labeled break, though. < 1349560492 261484 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Similar to Perl's, with a label of the iteration statement to break out from. < 1349560493 992 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Multi-level break is just a delimited continuation anyhow. < 1349560498 378790 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Did I ask you yet, I forget. < 1349560520 741535 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it's not < 1349560559 400143 :jix!~jix@jixco.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1349560622 708726 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Sure it is. < 1349560649 997406 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :not first class < 1349560662 523278 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wrong "is". < 1349560670 168563 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :continuations are so general that it's not meaningful to say "foo is just continuations" unless you mean that it's equally powerful < 1349560685 718727 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :every single control flow feature can be described as a limitation of continuations < 1349560688 263177 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION objects to the conflation of "continuations" and "delimited continuations". < 1349560693 755268 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The latter are much more well-behaved. < 1349560749 432733 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :x: goto x; < 1349560760 7159 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1349560796 134627 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? continuations aren't powerful < 1349560800 621195 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can do anything without continuations < 1349560804 589134 :atriq!~nathan@host-84-13-78-216.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, quite possibly. < 1349560827 306021 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro pro troll mode < 1349560845 744878 :atriq!~nathan@host-84-13-78-216.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of my internet friends, who reads MS Paint Adventures, has been suffering mysterious blackouts where she remains surprisingly lucid, although significantly more emotional. < 1349560870 468473 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PART #esoteric :"Leaving" < 1349560879 382784 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :atriq: are those two things related? < 1349560911 807334 :atriq!~nathan@host-84-13-78-216.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Adding to this is the fact that I have thrown enough money at the Homestuck Vidoe Game kickstarter to receive a physical copy < 1349560912 724228 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swats coppro for chasing away elliott -----### < 1349560920 991175 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :atriq, oh well < 1349560927 841238 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :can i come too or am i too old and square now < 1349560934 34891 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a shell redirection command similar to | and >, but which redirect as the "argv[1]" of the next command? < 1349560936 325189 :atriq!~nathan@host-84-13-78-216.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you get a copy! < 1349560942 536668 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh dear < 1349560948 130099 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arc_Koen: $(foo)? < 1349560965 605885 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I think you need to add "" somewhere < 1349560977 1636 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly < 1349560992 716442 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe not < 1349561017 810268 :atriq!~nathan@host-84-13-78-216.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I'm pretty sure you're, if anything, slightly younger than me, and just a victim of the difference between the education system in Scotland and in England and Wales. < 1349561049 706598 :atriq!~nathan@host-84-13-78-216.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If memory serves. < 1349561054 680242 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :"$( foo )" < 1349561073 394432 :atriq!~nathan@host-84-13-78-216.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This seems scarily TemplateHaskell < 1349561074 104350 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Spaces for clarity and not necessary < 1349561075 55382 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :atriq, erm right < 1349561109 860659 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, FreeFull: I'm not sure what you mean < 1349561138 472852 :atriq!~nathan@host-84-13-78-216.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yes, if we both receive copies of SBurb, I will certainly invite you to my session. < 1349561151 476199 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :$(foo) is the same as the old school `foo`, but nicer syntax which nests properly < 1349561167 252665 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arc_Koen: $( ... ) puts the redirection output as the literal argv[1] string. if you want argv[1] to be a filename containing the output, try <( ... ) < 1349561183 430654 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arc_Koen: rather than foo | bar < 1349561191 360197 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :and nested quoting is a lot less hairy with "$(foo "bar baz")" < 1349561193 60418 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :bar "$(foo)" < 1349561197 930995 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in bash, uses a named pipe) < 1349561210 555981 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :"`"`"`"`" < 1349561327 60547 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not quite a named pipe in bash on linux < 1349561336 770151 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, if sceql is a sceql interpreter and truth-machine.sceql a program in sceql, I can type ./sceql $(cat truth-machine.sceql) and it will work? < 1349561362 678584 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, "or the /dev/fd method of naming open files" < 1349561369 136039 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1349561389 140656 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arc_Koen: more quotes < 1349561397 228247 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :procfs contains files which look like symlinks to nonexistent paths, but you can still open and use them < 1349561398 48527 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :there might be spaces in that sceql file < 1349561401 402939 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's weirdness < 1349561405 50046 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes there are < 1349561406 692011 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, right < 1349561414 662940 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arc_Koen: that depends on whether the sceql interpreter takes a program string or a filename as argument < 1349561422 850621 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it takes a string < 1349561428 724992 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :then yes < 1349561446 136610 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arc_Koen: There are often also reasonably small limits of how much things you can push through the command line arguments. Like, "four kilobytes" kind of small. < 1349561456 13571 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I don't know how long sceql programs tend to be.) < 1349561507 926605 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(POSIX guarantees 4096 characters as the sum total of arguments. Some systems of course are happy with more.) < 1349561514 846064 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm well it doesn't seem to work, but that could be because of a bug in the interpreter, or in the sceql program < 1349561531 705015 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :linux had a fun denial of service bug relating to huge command lines < 1349561540 354889 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admittedly, if the interpreter takes a string, there's not much you can do to get around the command line length limit. < 1349561543 224719 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: did you just say the spaces in the program file will split it into several arguments? < 1349561563 994922 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I just implied it < 1349561599 200052 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, ' quotes don't work because they take $(...) directly as the string, but " quotes work < 1349561604 571315 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank you guys < 1349561610 983949 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :argv is an array of pointers to strings; they can all point to the same string if you like < 1349561638 581805 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so userspace can construct a huge command line and pass it to execve < 1349561641 326044 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :A true bash person would recommend you use ./sceql "$(< truth-machine.sqecl)" instead. < 1349561648 904342 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1349561650 273012 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :without actually using much memory in userspace < 1349561653 44999 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :("The command substitution $(cat file) can be replaced by the equivalent but faster $(< file).") < 1349561684 406730 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the kernel would not realize they are the same string, and so would allocate a huge amount of memory in the new process < 1349561698 763792 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it's important to micro-optimize your shell scripts for speed < 1349561716 433272 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :one time i posted a shell script which used an unnecessary 'cat' < 1349561722 181659 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it brought shame upon my entire family < 1349561784 688685 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I, uh, don't suppose you use GRUB 2. < 1349561787 404970 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :alias cat < < 1349561790 877724 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1349561797 435712 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :$(cat <(cat <(cat <(cat <(cat file))))) < 1349561803 925962 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuuuck < 1349561804 432097 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :alias cat='<'? < 1349561816 542574 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't do $(< /dev/urandom) < 1349561842 68304 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: good job concatenating files with that < 1349561847 899627 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/job/luck/ < 1349561922 94409 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone should inject in all cat binaries a thing that'd collect aggregate statistics on which fraction of cat invocations actually concatenate things. < 1349561938 272885 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :% echo $( m a) and does v >>= current_continuation < 1349564703 87808 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't really make any sense < 1349564708 304526 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :since do notation is precisely a CPS translation < 1349564723 953200 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway going by the first few tweets on https://twitter.com/jimduey I wouldn't wish being collided with him on anyone < 1349564754 739876 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But do notation is possibly an _ugly_ CPS translation < 1349564760 985595 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1349564818 259315 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :reset/shift may be prettier < 1349564847 907569 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : But do notation is possibly an _ugly_ CPS translation < 1349564849 505742 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does this mean < 1349564865 808833 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it means I think do notation is ugly. < 1349564890 74305 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :do notation is *literally* foo >>= current_continuation < 1349564927 683218 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's ugly to use. < 1349564954 377591 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1349565178 593973 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How is reset/join applicative in nature? < 1349565183 198384 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If that's what you're saying < 1349565204 962576 :atriq!~nathan@host-84-13-78-216.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aaargh < 1349565209 384190 :atriq!~nathan@host-84-13-78-216.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trying to write music < 1349565216 455287 :atriq!~nathan@host-84-13-78-216.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've got a big build-up going < 1349565223 995234 :atriq!~nathan@host-84-13-78-216.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I've got nothing for it to build up to < 1349565264 152606 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :plagiarise! < 1349565280 38868 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :atriq: have it end after the build-up < 1349565282 594922 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :~avant-garde~ < 1349565374 210388 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought applicative notation can only describe applicatives was supposed to be an analogy, but now I'm assuming not < 1349565395 936633 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you want a nested, rather than linear, notation, yes < 1349565402 514771 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which sounds like applicative notation to me < 1349565474 755793 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1349565481 460479 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good point < 1349565518 65773 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance (| const (putStrLn "hello") (putStrLn "world") |) < 1349565530 800844 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(| const (putStrLn "hello") (| const (putStrLn "world") (putStrLn "again") |) < 1349565531 783540 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1349565532 825463 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(| const (putStrLn "hello") (| const (putStrLn "world") (putStrLn "again") |) |) < 1349565541 456037 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :join (| putStrLn getLine |) < 1349565542 593124 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But what about with let? < 1349565570 162509 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(| const (putStrLn "name:") (| const (join (| putStrLn getLine |)) (putStrLn "ok") |) |) < 1349565577 849891 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably that is unbalanced, it is too unspeakably ugly for me to check < 1349565579 215390 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Clojure's let binds sequentially) < 1349565582 328668 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: with let that is do notation < 1349565587 92386 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :let a = foo; b = bar; c = quux; in d < 1349565587 665704 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :--> < 1349565593 70740 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :do { a <- foo; b <- bar; c <- quux; d } < 1349565631 504867 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'm thinking make them usable together nicely... although hmm, my idea of "nice" may be slightly warped < 1349565656 901971 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i agree < 1349565685 72861 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, would be nice to write code that mostly isn't written monadically-aware except for the parts that are < 1349565721 345779 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like you want an effect system < 1349565731 523782 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a la eff, McBride's Frank, and so on < 1349565867 14842 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks for pointing me to that stuff < 1349565908 565417 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :np < 1349565912 140123 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is not really "production ready" < 1349565920 995939 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also edwardk doesn't think it'll work well at all < 1349566336 507749 :atriq!~nathan@host-84-13-78-216.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goodnight! < 1349566338 669755 :atriq!~nathan@host-84-13-78-216.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1349566513 207787 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1349567249 716622 :kinoSi!~kinosi@27-96-32-84.ipq.jp QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1349567277 42063 :kinoSi!~kinosi@27-96-32-84.ipq.jp JOIN :#esoteric < 1349567328 504727 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: elliott: is that filinski stuff relevant to this? (never read it.) < 1349567362 849933 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/summary?doi=10.1.1.43.8213 < 1349567427 301067 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: maybe, not sure < 1349567428 986217 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, looks very relevant to what I was thinking of < 1349567439 661399 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure if it's at all relevant to effects < 1349567574 669527 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's interesting, the undelimited + one piece of state = delimited thing < 1349567725 80806 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've read some critique of that, though. specifically that it only works if you don't mix it with using undelimited continuations in any _other_ way. < 1349567796 522701 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1349567817 717199 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://okmij.org/ftp/continuations/undelimited.html < 1349567828 736478 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1349567880 151263 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Many applications that use call/cc also contain mutable cells holding continuations, betraying the well-known Filinski's emulation of delimited control via call/cc and a mutable cell."