< 1349829114 337842 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@cust-101.ktknet.cz QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1349831172 697890 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :'The entire council of the city of Reggio Calabria in southern Italy is dismissed to stop it from being taken over by the mafia, officials say.' < 1349832454 771579 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to finish DS9 at some point < 1349832752 55249 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1349832985 551951 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does ClojureScript count as a Lisp? < 1349832999 436836 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ClojureScript macros are in a different language (Clojure). < 1349833028 32617 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Time for argue-about-words-o'clock. < 1349833133 800477 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scheme macros are also in a different language (usually) < 1349833137 917545 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess Scheme isn't a Lisp... < 1349833167 426268 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It depends if the macros are in a different language? < 1349833189 716309 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, what makes a Lisp a Lisp? < 1349833197 607570 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know < 1349833208 735781 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: The main question is how much Paul Graham has written about it. < 1349833222 669354 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the term "Lisp" can be endlessly redefined to win the current argument < 1349833225 99001 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the beauty of it < 1349833252 683261 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess he doesn't write about Lisp anymoer. < 1349833342 635960 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION should reread LoperOS person's rant about Clojure < 1349833347 190243 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I disagree with it < 1349833392 814380 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-223-177.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So. For various reasons I got shoved into a "UNIX programming" class. ... Holy mother of shit we have to use *C shell*? < 1349833409 434472 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-223-177.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. /bin/csh < 1349833420 517949 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-223-177.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Am I going to need to learn COBOL next? < 1349833423 831921 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It promotes – no, mandates - the use of undigestable foreign matter in Lisp code: primitives on which you cannot pop the hood to reveal intelligible innards." < 1349833424 329768 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-223-177.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously, what the fuck. < 1349833460 84122 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does he believe that the hardware we run on should operate on conses? < 1349833472 858384 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably < 1349833504 295036 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :easyware < 1349833526 324269 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=55 < 1349833547 978521 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :my encyclopedic knowledge of bad loper os posts finally comes in handy < 1349833606 190172 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi elliott < 1349833610 374422 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you quit #esoteric < 1349833844 845714 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do think that Clojure is uncomfortably closer than it should be to Java at times, but I don't think it's really that horrible. < 1349833857 842375 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-223-177.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*C shell does not have functions*. < 1349833869 72377 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, any chance that they're called something else? < 1349833869 920682 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-223-177.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*They made a language worse than Bourne shell.* < 1349833882 172517 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-223-177.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: No. The closest it *has* is aliases. < 1349833898 536084 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-223-177.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :C shell is literally devoid of functions. < 1349833939 725968 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"No car crash, however brutal, will ever produce piles of loose protons and neutrons." < 1349833942 986164 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think that's true < 1349833949 906401 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there really nothing in a car which can burn hot enough to produce plasma? < 1349834014 557254 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't Joel talk about abstractions < 1349834025 671245 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh dear, this seems to be a complicated question < 1349834030 814023 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Joel talks about a lot of shit < 1349834040 974428 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There may be some abstractions (e.g. TCP) in which leaks of the abstraction are inevitable < 1349834100 574429 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :we just need the car to crash with randall munroe's baseball < 1349834122 687767 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION initially skipped the word "about" in what kmc said < 1349834131 209229 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :either way, really < 1349834154 209131 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :magnesium engine block will burn at 3,000 K < 1349834169 870036 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody can give me a straight answer as to what temperature air turns into plasma < 1349834195 838797 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: A billion degrees. < 1349834208 505168 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't cool < 1349834298 960401 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hear there is cold plasma too < 1349834371 511609 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: what's special about TCP there? < 1349834397 356953 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you mean the fact that it can't overcome an indefinite period of 100% packet loss? < 1349834402 533285 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1349834448 957711 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-223-177.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :csh builtins cannot be pipes. < 1349834452 943656 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-223-177.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/pipes/piped/ < 1349834518 466055 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Java methods are not functions in Clojure < 1349834528 773984 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq's thing is probably worse < 1349834593 681497 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-223-177.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And its errors don't include line numbers. < 1349834708 340821 :Sanky!~SankyZNC@unaffiliated/sanky QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1349834732 774850 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-223-177.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who designed C shell, and can I beat them? < 1349834755 593263 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION again sees a comparison with Clojure :/ < 1349834921 839478 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT : < 1349835540 598410 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-223-177.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bill Joy. < 1349835545 875556 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-223-177.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, I'm happy with beating him. < 1349835616 944546 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :a joyful beating, check < 1349835656 268625 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-223-177.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh dear, he's partly to blame for NFS. < 1349835659 282308 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-223-177.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I have to beat him. < 1349835681 976904 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-223-177.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :NFS: because file systems are stateless. < 1349836075 227222 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, NFS is reviled? < 1349836150 872708 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha Sgeo < 1349836154 297585 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :such a joker < 1349836236 404590 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1349836972 291721 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:42 it's like I am stuck misusing the do monad < 1349837040 988598 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :misusing the do monad, doo dah doo dah < 1349837063 316219 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Newbie misunderstandings are quote-worthy now? < 1349837097 715285 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : since it's cornihilio it's much more likely that the type is right and the 'do' is wrong < 1349837109 77984 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds like the people are familiar with this person? < 1349837142 402928 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :this person has no heart < 1349837178 978807 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :This person is all heart. < 1349837199 669051 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, that would coromnisio < 1349837210 917463 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*+be < 1349837286 517669 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-223-177.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: NFS is horrific. < 1349838236 362542 :hagb4rd!~perdito@p5797224A.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1349838473 918026 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Hey, man. < 1349838484 982355 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know who makes the puns around here, right? < 1349838488 166060 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :!rot13 shachaf < 1349838489 17869 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :funpuns < 1349838489 686288 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :!rot13 zzo38 < 1349838490 613930 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmb38 < 1349838501 314062 :mig22!~miguelort@bb116-15-31-108.singnet.com.sg JOIN :#esoteric < 1349838506 867920 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmb51 < 1349838509 248828 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome mig22 < 1349838512 966190 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION just deals out punishment -----### < 1349838513 455554 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :mig22: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) < 1349838525 162656 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`rot13 mig22 < 1349838528 794119 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :zvt22 < 1349838544 47969 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :МиГ-22 < 1349838550 84430 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`rot13 Sgeo < 1349838553 127318 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ftrb < 1349838562 524342 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so easy to pronounce < 1349838566 803669 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :─────███ < 1349838570 589859 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :^rot12 kmc < 1349838577 349678 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1349838581 145643 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :^rot13 kmc < 1349838581 571632 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :xzp < 1349838595 115871 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :xeegan zpallister < 1349838602 710592 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :^rot13 â–šâ–žâ–šâ–žâ–šâ–žâ–šâ–žâ–šâ–žâ–šâ–žâ–šâ–žâ–šâ–ž < 1349838603 518593 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :â–šâ–žâ–šâ–žâ–šâ–žâ–šâ–žâ–šâ–žâ–šâ–žâ–šâ–žâ–šâ–ž < 1349838668 208573 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@yarr < 1349838668 741726 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll crush ye barnacles! < 1349838671 409685 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : kmc Does "mc" really stand for "Mc"? < 1349838676 115966 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1349838689 466505 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: That's so lame. < 1349838698 384088 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :haters gonna hate < 1349838701 491692 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just like you!!!! < 1349838704 908207 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :snap < 1349838715 938537 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PART :#esoteric < 1349838722 209048 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ヾ(âŒâ– _â– )ノ♪ < 1349838726 679066 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not good enough for zzo38. < 1349839147 810210 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :>+<[>-<-]>[<+>-]< < 1349839676 582383 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: noob answer here but, i think you mean type checking, and that happens before. if a function gets bound, it becomes a new type, and the next type you feed it needs to be compatible. if a function is fed proper types but pruposely used in the wrong context, that's a failure of semantics. < 1349839723 969386 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :very good sir < 1349839731 528219 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shall i warm up sir's crack pipe < 1349839745 358718 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: a function that could take functions could do that < 1349839748 565218 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think sir is cracked enough < 1349839750 513097 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: something along the lines of f :: (a->b) -> a < 1349839754 388824 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: monads should be suitable for this < 1349839768 302132 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you livetweeting #haskell or what < 1349839773 112066 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1349839780 77902 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :jesus really < 1349839780 550168 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this isn't twitter though kmc < 1349839781 371673 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's irc < 1349839786 454253 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shall i warm up sir's crack pipe, as they say < 1349839796 153976 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott is trying to make you leave the last channel you're still in. :-( < 1349839804 318808 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was all one person if that makes it better < 1349839860 223846 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: how long has this person been here < 1349839869 706586 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh they're just reffering to the monadic context in general now i understand < 1349839871 834768 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ps by here i mean #haskell < 1349839888 986318 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: A while. < 1349839912 151892 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You're such a geneous. < 1349839956 173744 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Do you know that you still beat me in "number of words said in #haskell"? < 1349839972 668700 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :3x < 1349840010 152884 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott beats me too. < 1349840027 987426 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shocking. < 1349840042 911704 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: does anyone beat me < 1349840054 472462 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Of course. < 1349840073 997309 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :who < 1349840075 574509 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dons? < 1349840139 655799 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used to write all these specialized monomorphic functions and I couldn't use any free theorems. Then I started writing more general types for my functions and it was all, like, "welcome to parametri city". < 1349840162 611419 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Probably. < 1349840203 376756 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I measured wrong. It's not quite 3x. < 1349840218 264450 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :dons is almost at 2 million words. < 1349840342 116513 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: haveyouread OutsideIn(X) < 1349840359 420939 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1349840662 825207 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I prefer the less well-known "double-negation with newline in the middle" translation. < 1349840683 186708 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Er. What. It's strictly weaker. < 1349840731 900033 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You know how you used to be here every day but now you're only here every 7 days? < 1349840737 918640 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's strictly weeker. < 1349840747 748183 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok you got me < 1349840772 632038 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Do you believe cps :: (a -> b) -> (b -> r) -> a -> r yet? < 1349840791 762271 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :define believe < 1349840811 415821 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You said it should be a -> (a -> r) -> r before. < 1349840876 175297 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know < 1349840899 16536 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :((b -> r) -> (a -> r)) is a CPSed (a -> b) < 1349841101 564472 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION decides not to ask a stupid and tangentally-related question < 1349841279 291185 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :no paypal i do not need a loan to buy 5 tee shirts < 1349841524 556932 :TeruFSX!~quassel@65-128-188-237.mpls.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1349841604 82362 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1349842109 733064 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 lakh rupees isn't cool, you know what's cool? 1 crore rupees < 1349842294 268634 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can only assume that kmc is either playing a game or drunk. < 1349842317 572256 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :neither < 1349842332 997705 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i'm not more playing a game than usual < 1349842337 420417 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's all, like, games, man < 1349842411 569952 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION fines kmc for one crore crore rupees < 1349842541 833813 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :why does http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Asian_numbering_system skip the crore crore row... < 1349842944 383027 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: you're , game < 1349843453 662974 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides Sgeo, you know that it's illegal to be drunk on the internet < 1349843521 846804 :Sanky!~SankyZNC@unaffiliated/sanky JOIN :#esoteric < 1349843529 231231 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :@type flip (.) < 1349843530 615793 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b (f :: * -> *). (Functor f) => f a -> (a -> b) -> f b < 1349843535 304670 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :@type flip (Prelude..) < 1349843536 503785 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall b c a. (a -> b) -> (b -> c) -> a -> c < 1349843616 994922 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (>>>).($) < 1349843618 266489 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b c. (a -> b) -> (b -> c) -> a -> c < 1349843868 960497 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :when carnage is insufficient, mr. munroe adds more zeroes. < 1349843902 787633 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc isn't playing a game more than usual. < 1349843905 691894 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nor drunk more than usual. < 1349843942 943948 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel like I should learn how type checking/inference works properly. < 1349843992 715044 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :badly < 1349844168 157889 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Did you read Typing Haskell in Haskell? < 1349844456 48345 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Nope. < 1349844463 657933 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's probably a good one to read. :-) < 1349844477 839190 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course GHC's type system is barely Haskell these days. < 1349844718 48635 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1349844743 915944 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wasn't sure if you meant the general idea of type checking/inference, or specifically ghc haskell with all the bells and whistles < 1349844758 237101 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :implementing type inference for simply typed lambda calculus is fun and not hard < 1349844788 126432 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hindley milner is only a bit harder, i think < 1349844808 980228 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then you add type classes and polymorphic mutual recursion and you have haskell < 1349844821 88932 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then you take about 2 mg of LSD and you have GHC Haskell < 1349844846 646547 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you do to end up with Agda? < 1349844897 329804 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes making these things more general makes them simpler. < 1349844897 985865 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i know nothing about how inference works in agda, to the degree it exists < 1349844901 357055 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1349844908 159720 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as checking goes that is true < 1349844934 125012 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Agda's value inference is probably better than its type inference... < 1349844950 387402 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@quote cmccann agda < 1349844951 47894 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :cmccann says: someone should implement a dependently-typed unsafeCoerce in Agda, you'd have to provide a proof that the coercion is invalid < 1349844953 462833 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@quote cmccann agda < 1349844953 993494 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :cmccann says: the most common solution to prevent runtime errors in Agda is by not running the program < 1349844993 298079 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric ::3 < 1349845019 660843 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Colon three. < 1349845025 337317 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's another one of those that I don't get. < 1349845109 378935 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no fundamental reason not to have "exists" in Haskell, is there? < 1349845117 637803 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I heard there's a fundamental reason not to have it in GHC. < 1349845261 872822 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is? < 1349845322 310044 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :By heard I mean edwardk mentioned something about it being incompatible with the way GHC does type checking at dinner once. < 1349845327 830875 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1349845345 83996 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I don't really know. < 1349845345 168149 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I asked Karp in the elevator and he said it was probably NP-complete" < 1349845374 633292 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty much. < 1349845399 691037 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was almost exactly a year ago. He's coming back next week for the same event! < 1349845417 214321 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I'll have the opportunity to ask him again. < 1349845731 369639 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Where did your CodensityAsk type come from? < 1349845752 161418 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like it. < 1349845830 890595 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Do you like reflection? < 1349845833 883795 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a great library, that. < 1349845837 979708 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That wonderful person elliott worked on it. < 1349845853 545489 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't understand reflection. < 1349845865 104946 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's probably good, though. < 1349845875 519917 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does it do? < 1349845896 75002 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Actually I just made it up < 1349845912 165642 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Have you ever wanted to be able to express the type "Integer mod 42" in such a way that the 42 is encoded in the type? < 1349845915 700885 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Right, but in what context? < 1349845917 703644 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you don't have to write a Num instance for every single number. < 1349845921 361993 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Sure! < 1349845924 938024 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That you'd want to modulo it by. < 1349845953 916844 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Okay, then look at "newtype M s a" onwards in http://hpaste.org/66699. Ignore the reflection implementation, it's just Oleg's low-level hack to accomplish it. < 1349845978 180068 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Basically you can lift an arbitrary value to a (phony; the actual "type" is nothing and doesn't matter to you) type that you get an instance for. < 1349845984 317828 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That instance lets you give a proxy for that type, and get the value back. < 1349845989 609299 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you can write interfaces that depend on values. < 1349845995 625179 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I was first think of Yoneda with a class constraint, and then to use not a class constraint but rather a value instead. < 1349846001 28603 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: It can also be used to replace Reader like that, but in a way that omits all the monadic plugging. < 1349846008 254942 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: It's like implicit parameters, but without all their weirdnesses. < 1349846016 211974 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And you don't have to implement it in the compiler.) < 1349846020 584012 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hence, < 1349846022 10153 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :reify :: a -> (forall s. Reifies s a => Proxy s -> r) -> r < 1349846028 920801 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :class Reifies s a | s -> a where reflect :: proxy s -> a < 1349846029 43790 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then I realize that you can use it to make a MonadPlus from any comonad. < 1349846045 345920 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Do you understand me now? < 1349846051 804659 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: OK. < 1349846066 394509 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Nope. < 1349846070 345967 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Did you see CodensityAsk? < 1349846083 174928 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Here's an example of it replacing Reader: http://hpaste.org/66715 < 1349846089 589041 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pfft, reflection is way cooler than CodensityAsk. < 1349846090 139378 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf is now completely confused and thinks Reifies is a CodensityAsk type < 1349846106 182819 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :CodensityAsk = best type < 1349846171 6520 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Oops, isn't Reifies a class instead?? < 1349846181 625810 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: he is _very_ confused. < 1349846185 843079 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :See, even zzo38 knows the deal about reflection!! < 1349846187 600517 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :He knows what's up. < 1349846226 997050 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Can you express CodensityAsk as a CodensityAsk type? < 1349846232 674669 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :reflection lets you be down with what's up < 1349846345 669002 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I suppose you can use (CodensityAsk (IdentityT f)) but I don't know if that is what you meant < 1349846362 171249 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(But you can do that with anything really) < 1349846564 665263 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: What's CodensityAsk (Cont r)? < 1349846629 698330 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I don't know, but it is something. < 1349846669 288963 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, notice that you don't need to use a functor there, it can be anything, such as (CodensityAsk Predicate) to make up the infinite search monad. < 1349846701 682660 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: CodensityAsk is "pretty damn awesome", confirms another channel. < 1349846951 346623 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Is it really related to Codensity, though? < 1349846980 95890 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Codensity m a = forall z. (a -> m z) -> m z < 1349847220 431449 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Well, kind of, but not really. I just didn't know what other name to put. < 1349847246 196230 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is a monad in the same way that Codensity is a monad. < 1349847271 678041 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is also the same way that Cont is a monad, too. < 1349847272 494744 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1349847721 609317 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca QUIT :Quit: Good night (again) < 1349849456 76648 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ask zzo38 Is this the CodensityAsk Monad (>>=)? m >>= f = CA $ \q k -> runCA m q (\x -> runCA (f x) q k) < 1349849461 453458 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1349850025 78278 :barts!~barts@p4FD0E01E.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1349850276 287474 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Today I learned that YKK is a company < 1349851769 887940 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1349851777 226262 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: what's a good cpu these days < 1349852902 717301 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@188.134.41.171 JOIN :#esoteric < 1349853970 962634 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@188.134.41.171 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1349854282 29634 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: 68000 < 1349854309 13325 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Much more powerful than the 6502. < 1349854324 255544 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1349854331 106218 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :You’re welcome. < 1349856097 110487 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1349856123 869297 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell zzo38 Oh, I guess so. < 1349856124 678962 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1349857254 799386 :TeruFSX!~quassel@65-128-188-237.mpls.qwest.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1349858644 729095 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@host-224-60.dataart.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1349862781 384536 :kinoSi!~kinosi@27-96-32-84.ipq.jp QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1349862810 974726 :kinoSi!~kinosi@27-96-32-84.ipq.jp JOIN :#esoteric < 1349864465 766224 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: http://www.dustingetz.com/2012/10/09/can-haskell-prove-that-a-program-will-not-crash.html < 1349864563 192964 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so in effect, an expression of type int -> int, will only crash in the same ways that math can ‘crash’ on pencil and paper. < 1349864569 123373 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which means that if we’re confident that our program isn’t ⊥ (do you really worry about the halting problem in your business application?), if your program passes the type checker, it will not crash. ever. (Unless it runs out of memory, or you unplug it, …) < 1349864571 744379 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a guarantee < 1349864639 565937 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can offer a hard guarantee that if your program won't crash it won't crash < 1349864650 714673 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how much more could you ever want or need < 1349864719 981949 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.dustingetz.com/2012/10/07/monads-in-python-identity-maybe-error.html < 1349864762 862638 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no < 1349864773 113189 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"business logic is crystal clear. hook it up to a flowchart software or something. < 1349864773 319221 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1349864776 392053 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeelp < 1349864843 195563 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Strange Loop 2012 talk - Monads for normal people in python (slides), monads for normal people in python and clojure < 1349865035 745846 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1349865533 370282 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1349865605 279971 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1349866137 460892 :ogrom!~del@gprs-inet-65-81.elisa.ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1349866901 49426 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1349866934 972611 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1349867071 548713 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1349867083 199937 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1349867156 970920 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nenholoe < 1349867161 744820 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hi < 1349867198 352591 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1349867208 438071 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT : < 1349867289 732203 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :"! End of file on the terminal... why?" < 1349867346 368457 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, has anyone seen itidus lately? < 1349867902 94992 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1349867924 31918 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :good question < 1349867938 17729 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe he got bored < 1349867959 267872 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1349868612 484289 :Deewiant!~deewiant@109.75.188.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :He got called "full of shit always", "spends too much time dragging down the discussion", "making the channel that much worse by being here and [..] clearly never going to change", and took off half an hour later; this was about 156 hours ago. < 1349868642 315986 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1349870049 811364 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: sounds like the #esoteric I know < 1349870100 295156 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice looks like oerjan started it < 1349870104 93702 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't see that every day!! < 1349870155 548901 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:47:20: i am more interested in the unsolicited humour than reality when i say there is no operation which satisfies x in the equation (> (x wolfram) (in mathematicians_wolfram_admires)) < 1349870161 172136 :Deewiant!~deewiant@109.75.188.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, there was some stuff before those quotes, too. < 1349870161 256619 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that might just be the best opening sentence to an argument ever < 1349870177 799572 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:28:17: apparently wolfram's new kind of science recommends mathematica.. and someone is annoyed by it < 1349870177 883443 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:29:53: i think.. maybe he should see a psychologist < 1349870181 557116 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :going to miss these gems < 1349870218 833187 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:55:22: what i tried to say is really in bad taste < 1349870219 74929 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:55:30: so im glad its meaningless < 1349870227 525871 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should probably feel bad for laughing at all this a lot < 1349870242 831637 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1349870275 964376 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1349870287 167937 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Well, only two of those were PH rather than the three I expected, that's quite exciting. < 1349870298 20044 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe #esoteric does change sometimes! < 1349870501 679495 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, he didn't even reply. I want my money back. < 1349870746 829262 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523 < 1349870786 924958 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Mathematica ancedote: writing the 2,3 turing machine functions in mathematica, they were orders of magnitude slower than the equivalent Perl < 1349870794 979431 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and Perl is not the right language to write those in) < 1349870893 851568 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: err, you told me this five years ago < 1349870948 361830 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: why do I remember you telling me something about Mathematica five years ago < 1349870990 44156 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's amusing? < 1349871008 528500 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ha. Ha. Ha. < 1349871018 741342 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well I wouldn't go *that* far [LAUGH TRACK] < 1349871025 441188 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT : < 1349871034 649423 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :did I upset him < 1349871036 996581 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell ais523 i'm sorry < 1349871037 605655 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1349871042 798586 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1349871050 14520 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell ais523 i take it back, i'm not sorry at all < 1349871050 644107 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1349871056 725998 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1349871065 762084 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1349871066 280154 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: You have 3 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. < 1349871069 228154 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages < 1349871069 897267 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest asked 9d 19h 8s ago: On Wikipedia, programming language pages have "info boxes" which show some basic but useful information. Maybe we could do this on the esolangs wiki too? (To give < 1349871070 13768 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you an idea of the information that the boxes would contain; I was thinking of: paradigms, creator, year of creation, derived from, influenced by, influenced, specification, reference implementation < 1349871070 94649 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc. < 1349871070 94849 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott said 32s ago: i'm sorry < 1349871070 94956 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott said 19s ago: i take it back, i'm not sorry at all < 1349871092 826369 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think you need to apologise for whatever you were trying to apologise for < 1349871103 662261 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523: well I wouldn't go *that* far [LAUGH TRACK] < 1349871103 923855 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :* ais523 has quit () < 1349871104 4561 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : did I upset him < 1349871104 4773 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : @tell ais523 i'm sorry < 1349871104 4882 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Consider it noted. < 1349871104 721451 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :* ais523 (~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523) has joined #esoteric < 1349871106 695185 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : @tell ais523 i take it back, < 1349871110 390972 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i stopped being sorry because it became clear you did not actually get upset! < 1349871112 906894 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore i don't have to be worry < 1349871164 278490 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1349871292 877746 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1349871327 887946 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1349872368 175446 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1349872633 370961 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1349872639 888104 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1349872673 315167 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523 < 1349872874 145878 :ogrom!~del@gprs-inet-65-81.elisa.ee QUIT :Quit: Left < 1349873254 874894 :Slereah_!x@ANantes-259-1-252-78.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1349873374 871729 :Slereah!x@ANantes-259-1-175-189.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1349874644 236930 :nortti!nortti@dsl-hkibrasgw3-ff25c000-52.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf: http://thedailywtf.com/Articles/The-Killing-Job.aspx < 1349874983 401691 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT : < 1349875064 180858 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a week’s worth of stats from my server that’s in the NTP pool. The connection speed has been set as 3 Mbit/s in the pool settings, the average usage is less than 0.5 kB/s. http://heh.fi/collectd/img/ntp-bytes < 1349875102 126786 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ion: Haha, you actually have that GPS thing in an NTP pool? < 1349875117 22864 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: My server has been in the pool for ages. < 1349875273 119695 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ion: Well, I only got told about this server thing a few days ago by someone or other in here. < 1349875277 755803 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am "out of" "the" "loop". < 1349875474 324357 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ion: Do you happen to know if there's any particularly easy way to compare my system's idea of the time with your server's? < 1349875478 316334 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That'd be exciting!!! < 1349875481 227847 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(FSVO exciting.) < 1349875491 757365 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm synchronised with ntp myself though, so it might be... uninspiring. < 1349875521 911617 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: “server ntp1.heh.fi iburst†< 1349875551 989608 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ion: I take it that's not a shell command. < 1349875553 128631 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Which servers are you using, btw? {0,1,2,3}.{your area}.pool.ntp.org? < 1349875557 838006 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: A ntp.conf line < 1349875569 738197 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's, uh, literally whatever the Arch default is. Let me check. < 1349875580 416620 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[012].pool.ntp.org. Thoroughly uninspiring. < 1349875596 590323 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess there is probably some trickery to give me geographically-appropriate servers for those? < 1349875664 451826 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :0) Vendors are working against the pool rules by using that by default; they should be {0,1,2,3}.arch.pool.ntp.org. 1) Why {0,1,2}, not {0,1,2,3}? 2) I think it probably has some GeoIP stuff, but i guess it’s best to use {0,1,2,3}.{your area}.pool.ntp.org. < 1349875748 905232 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :0) Who starts numbering their lists from 0? I'm hereby renumbering 0 as 1. 1) I'd report it as a bug, except, uh... I'm lazy, and I doubt they'd care. 2) God knows, but that's how it is. 3) Right. Modifying configurations is so 2011, but maybe having super accurate time is 2012 enough to counter it out. < 1349875766 491671 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how http://pool.ntp.org/ has a decent chance of getting you some quaint time server website. < 1349875781 110409 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1349875797 26690 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1349875814 643345 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ion: I'm not sure what the vendor thing is about, though. It seems a rather arbitrary distinction. < 1349875849 309235 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should Linux from Scratch recommend you use lfs.pool.ntp.org, even though you're mostly doing things yourself and don't really have any association with LFS? < 1349875856 697016 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admittedly Arch is a bit heavier-weight than that, but still. < 1349875887 767114 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notes that http://www.pool.ntp.org/en/use.html doesn't mention anything about it either :p < 1349875896 708712 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess http://www.pool.ntp.org/en/vendors.html is it. < 1349875898 934759 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes some vendor’s device/software is faulty in some way and DoSes the pool. That way they can limit the issue until the bug is fixed. < 1349875908 530803 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Time usually just advances." Deep. < 1349875909 145695 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :lfs should provide instructions for calibrating with a sundial < 1349875926 688778 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ion: I think Arch just ships unpatched ntpd with a default configuration file. < 1349875936 918501 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :They don't patch stuff all that much. < 1349875948 78347 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also by ntpd I think I mean openntpd? < 1349875972 425016 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :If an LFS/whatever *user* configures their ntpd they’re free to do whatever they want. But vendors coming with some kind of a default configuration should get a subdomain. < 1349875984 352150 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there much practical use for having network calibrated time, anyway? < 1349875986 450132 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1349875986 977097 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I mean whatever this "ntp" package is. < 1349876008 142784 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: Well, you get a clock that's right. That's pretty valuable. < 1349876053 748772 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ion: Right. So where do you draw the line between a user copy-pasting an example configuration file from a website, and a user telling a tool (e.g., package manager pacman) to copy-paste an example configuration file for them? Admittedly it's somewhat more obvious in the case of something big and supported and official like Ubuntu. < 1349876075 887573 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, why is that valuable. < 1349876121 135165 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: Well, time is a thing. < 1349876128 164204 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think all sorts of Official(tm) stuff uses NTP. < 1349876131 848638 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Protocols that require roughly the same time on both ends are able to work. Filesystem etc. timestamps will be correct. < 1349876135 29750 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Therefore, air traffic control was one of the first applications for NTP." -- see, that's official. < 1349876162 345146 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :You won’t be late for work when using your computer’s clock. < 1349876178 905679 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's assuming your office is on the same time! < 1349876214 381134 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think protocols should start by negotiating time, rather than assuming the same time. < 1349876235 965790 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also the whole thing where it's nice for you, as a person, to know what time it is. < 1349876257 45507 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you want every conversation about when to do a certain thing to involve negotiating two different clocks that are 15 minutes off because nobody synchronises their time. < 1349876263 962225 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, add time-dependency to the protocol so the attacker is unable to replay authentication packets… but let her dictate what time it is. < 1349876270 611414 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems nicer to have just one program (i.e., ntp) do the conversations about agreeing on what a time means. < 1349876321 255195 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Someone with a watch can always tell the time. Someone with two watches is never sure." < 1349876345 55990 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone with two ntp-synchronized watches? < 1349876363 407816 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Jafet may be engaged in some leg-pulling. < 1349876573 539519 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1349876621 388817 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1349876909 753540 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti: :-D < 1349877041 569585 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :ion: bitches don't know about mah nonce < 1349877086 999872 :nortti!nortti@dsl-hkibrasgw3-ff25c000-52.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ion: what? < 1349877108 866083 :nortti!nortti@dsl-hkibrasgw3-ff25c000-52.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah ok < 1349877202 516191 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :“We can use y to help us obtain an estimate of x, but we cannot necessarily take the information from y at face value because it is corrupted by noise. The measurement is like a politician. We can use the information that it presents to a certain extent, but we cannot afford to grant it our total trust.†:-D < 1349877275 1326 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Politicians, unfortunately, don't tend to be gaussian. < 1349877284 225777 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1349877321 865655 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1349878017 437788 :mig22!~miguelort@bb116-15-31-108.singnet.com.sg QUIT :Quit: mig22 < 1349878528 229857 :sirdancealot!~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1349879166 217751 :MoALTz!~no@host-92-2-129-105.as43234.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1349879224 300386 :jiella!~jiella@cs27103076.pp.htv.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1349879627 101362 :MoALTz!~no@host-92-2-129-105.as43234.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1349880008 742796 :sirdancealot7!~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz JOIN :#esoteric < 1349880043 720477 :kmc_!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1349880057 974284 :ineiros!~itniemin@li271-145.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1349880087 166711 :tswett_!~tswett@ec2-23-23-86-149.compute-1.amazonaws.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1349880346 314203 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com QUIT :*.net *.split < 1349880350 209328 :yiyus!~124271242@je.je.je QUIT :*.net *.split < 1349880350 291347 :ineiros_!~itniemin@li271-145.members.linode.com QUIT :*.net *.split < 1349880350 372156 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett QUIT :*.net *.split < 1349880838 815023 :yiyus!1242712427@je.je.je JOIN :#esoteric < 1349881081 752470 :sirdancealot7!~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1349881164 422777 :sirdancealot7!~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz JOIN :#esoteric < 1349881274 50922 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1349882551 977338 :MoALTz!~no@host-92-2-129-105.as43234.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1349882580 876719 :MoALTz!~no@host-92-2-118-50.as43234.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1349882805 45569 :sirdancealot7!~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1349883978 884632 :augur!~augur@129-2-129-35.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1349884780 398868 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1349885306 627613 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh < 1349885307 697723 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1349885348 7558 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :struct S x, y; x = y; just blindly mempcys contents from x to y? < 1349885419 3065 :kmc_!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :in C? yes < 1349885423 670737 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what else would it do < 1349885436 335338 :kmc_!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :in C++ you can define the behavior by overloading operator= < 1349885446 661574 :kmc_!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com NICK :kmc < 1349885475 932338 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1349885486 891590 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the default in C++ is basically that it does "x.a = y.a; x.b = y.b;" for all the fields < 1349885503 218758 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1349885505 513825 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which might in turn invoke a user-defined operator= or recursively invoke that default rule < 1349885514 702796 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so Plain Old Data in C++ effectively gets memcpy'd too < 1349885542 334054 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :i never use plain structs < 1349885551 384816 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :always pointers to structs < 1349885567 373020 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never use pointers to structs < 1349885574 987213 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :always pointers to pointers to structs < 1349885578 535969 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't always use structs, but when i do, i use pointers to them < 1349885585 334610 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1349885847 763462 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1349886597 473385 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: It's not guaranteed to memcpy. In particular, it need not copy padding. < 1349886749 919026 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :it movs on x86 < 1349886782 841153 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the struct fits into 32 or 64 bits (in x86-64) < 1349886784 588650 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think < 1349886809 10238 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've just read what clang produced for my test program < 1349886828 510136 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, well, but the point was that it doesn't need to copy all the bytes. Of course it can, and maybe probably will. < 1349886875 689164 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"When a value is stored in an object of structure or union type -- the bytes of the object representation that correspond to any padding bytes take unspecified values.51) ... 51) Thus, for example, structure assignment need not copy any padding bits." < 1349887206 562363 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhum < 1349887364 731118 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It will frequently, perhaps always, be more efficient to copy the padding anyway. < 1349887387 207259 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Irrelevant statement GOOOO) < 1349887433 273760 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :it will always be most efficient to choose the most efficient alternative < 1349887455 887602 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Impressive. < 1349887552 566658 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually no, choosing can be costly ... skip directly to *using* the most efficient alternative < 1349887802 128470 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1349887864 788738 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@host-224-60.dataart.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1349888287 341367 :ogrom!~del@gprs-inet-65-81.elisa.ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1349888306 404030 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1349888753 369857 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1349889132 100823 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like this channel < 1349889409 148942 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1349889409 324165 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. < 1349889415 347093 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you sure? < 1349889418 442383 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot ?messages < 1349889423 15729 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :?messages < 1349889423 222432 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf asked 11h 6m 1s ago: Is this the CodensityAsk Monad (>>=)? m >>= f = CA $ \q k -> runCA m q (\x -> runCA (f x) q k) < 1349889423 495379 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf said 9h 14m 58s ago: Oh, I guess so. < 1349889473 408632 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it is almost a kind of Codensity monad. < 1349889712 70889 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, is it just me or has the internet been more boring than usual the last few weeks? < 1349889752 410486 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1349889753 884632 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say it is interestingly boring. < 1349889817 881501 :nortti!nortti@dsl-hkibrasgw3-ff25c000-52.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol: http://thedailywtf.com/Articles/Taking-a-Dump.aspx < 1349889958 406170 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, that did temporarily restore my faith in the internet < 1349890050 622773 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://fu.x14.eu/#WTF,funny,pics,4chan here You go < 1349890101 613002 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti: hah < 1349890421 556872 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1349890607 68982 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1349890789 876257 :sirdancealot7!~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz JOIN :#esoteric < 1349890931 906358 :ogrom!~del@gprs-inet-65-81.elisa.ee QUIT :Quit: Left < 1349891025 891533 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ion: https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!topic/bahaskell/QJi4bU0cFi4 < 1349891198 700882 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh < 1349891261 169517 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :i never did that but I always thought that I can ((unsigned int*)0x54aa4f02) = 100; < 1349891287 871303 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, you "can" do that < 1349891288 296436 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"can"? < 1349891323 778862 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not legal lvalue according to clang < 1349891334 288989 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, you're missing a * < 1349891340 216089 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1349891341 813423 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1349891428 772661 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :typo < 1349891559 885794 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1349891798 354615 :augur!~augur@129-2-129-35.wireless.umd.edu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1349891827 883489 :augur!~augur@129-2-129-35.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1349891928 588015 :mean!~this@188.214.33.238 JOIN :#esoteric < 1349892199 663830 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: There’s going to be a Google hangout? < 1349892705 150166 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ion: I think that's the plan. < 1349892712 999570 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like recording, except for the recording bit. < 1349892754 251995 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope it also gets recorded. < 1349893071 90989 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can record the G+ stream! < 1349893209 886633 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1349893225 152586 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Quit: Arc_Koen < 1349894320 143175 :atriq!~Taneb@host-84-13-93-227.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1349894351 420214 :atriq!~Taneb@host-84-13-93-227.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages? < 1349894351 678601 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, no messages today. < 1349894356 645403 :atriq!~Taneb@host-84-13-93-227.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay! < 1349894360 208451 :nortti!nortti@dsl-hkibrasgw3-ff25c000-52.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1349894419 263944 :atriq!~Taneb@host-84-13-93-227.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Means I don't have to deal with anything < 1349894481 402894 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1349894620 467820 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell atriq Deal with a thing, please. < 1349894620 591456 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1349894629 844995 :atriq!~Taneb@host-84-13-93-227.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@clear-messages < 1349894630 99253 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Messages cleared. < 1349894634 282882 :atriq!~Taneb@host-84-13-93-227.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell fizzie I REFUSE < 1349894634 621126 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1349894641 13525 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :@clear-messages < 1349894641 618555 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Messages cleared. < 1349894646 585872 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :This was a productive thing to do. < 1349894659 632992 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope I didn't have any messages in the meanwhile there. < 1349894721 999203 :atriq!~Taneb@host-84-13-93-227.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would have been bad < 1349895755 792440 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :SmoothLife is a family of rules created by Stephan Rafler. It was designed as a continuous version of Conway's Game of Life - using floating point values instead of integers. http://youtu.be/KJe9H6qS82I < 1349895774 368577 :atriq!~Taneb@host-84-13-93-227.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't Phantom_Hoover make something like that? < 1349895776 958821 :atriq!~Taneb@host-84-13-93-227.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, that was chess < 1349895783 661019 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I’m sure the stream will be of much worse quality than what can be recorded on-site. < 1349895805 369821 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, continuous chess. < 1349895824 192901 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's pretty cool. < 1349895829 793210 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :As an actually playable game, or as ... something to observe < 1349895842 785912 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can I read about SmoothLife rather than watch a video? < 1349895853 411822 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://arxiv.org/abs/1111.1567 < 1349895868 403570 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Me and oko played a game of continuous chess... once. < 1349895884 664629 :atriq!~Taneb@host-84-13-93-227.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who won? < 1349895892 855508 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think me? < 1349895903 76915 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :he won the first game because i let him change the rules < 1349895921 428554 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can I assume by flotrary ratiiece of shit right now. < 1349895925 680126 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :, my computer is being a piece of shit right now. < 1349895925 769105 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :, my computer is being a piece of shit right now. < 1349895931 704380 :atriq!~Taneb@host-84-13-93-227.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1349895943 284425 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also i mustn't've worked out the final version of the rules for moving through enemy piece < 1349895987 977016 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I intended to say was, can I assume that by floating point values, you mean arbitrary reals or rationals? < 1349896036 224369 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://arxiv.org/pdf/1111.1567v2.pdf < 1349896041 545648 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :flotrary ratiiece, what a wonder phrase. < 1349896194 744530 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, that paper looks like it was made after Gemini? < 1349896205 144748 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :...what of it? < 1349896261 820118 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just that the paper mentions large constructions and changes to the GoL rules made in the search of a non-orthogonal non-diagonal "glider" < 1349896272 19671 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I think the paper is abusing the term "glider", isn't it?) < 1349896283 936747 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1349896297 13176 :atriq!~Taneb@host-84-13-93-227.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a fear that in two thousand years the only source for historians learning about our civilization will be Tumblr < 1349896312 331287 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :'glider' is often used the same way as 'spaceship' when talking about general cas < 1349896335 733476 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1349896372 676765 :atriq!~Taneb@host-84-13-93-227.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :To demonstrate the problem: http://froyuh.tumblr.com/post/33310816271/katherinebloginson-frankenzned < 1349896412 364700 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1349896419 489696 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is a pretty cutting commentary on our civilisation though < 1349896427 780570 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also spell civilisation like a briton you twat < 1349896453 805944 :atriq!~Taneb@host-84-13-93-227.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I spell how I want to spell: no more, no less. < 1349896474 873515 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're not spelling enough < 1349896573 248130 :atriq!~Taneb@host-84-13-93-227.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe on an older version of my user page I mentioned I spoke en-GB-oed, in which -ize and -ization are accepted < 1349896747 37467 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1349896864 365524 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : nice looks like oerjan started it <-- i was _not_ the one to say he made the channel worse. i think. < 1349896942 514920 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION might be gone a few(?) days himself, got to get something done about my bad feet... < 1349896977 323828 :atriq!~Taneb@host-84-13-93-227.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Has anyone any itinews? < 1349896993 943732 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, the TV is currently talking about one of those questions that makes your head hurt < 1349897002 34666 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, it's to do with Fairtrade ingredients < 1349897026 274813 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :he isn't on freenode under his two usual nicks, anyway. (he was last time i checked.) < 1349897041 678259 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :some companies have apparently been buying both Fairtrade and non-Fairtrade ingredients, and putting the non-Fairtrade ingredients in their Fairtrade products and vice versa < 1349897057 968879 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :such that they're using the same amount they would have used otherwise < 1349897066 170694 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :...right. < 1349897094 804029 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the question is, is this unethical in any way? the issue in my head is that the only difference between fairtrade and non-fairtrade is the price the company paid the farmers < 1349897102 352069 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they're receiving the same amount of money any way < 1349897140 276269 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :reminds me of the green electricity market - current doesn't care where it comes from :) < 1349897189 943784 :mean!~this@188.214.33.238 QUIT :Read error: No route to host < 1349897212 625381 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Ribbit < 1349897584 214267 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1349897682 407225 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ion: Probably. < 1349897722 964568 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ion: You should ask about recording! < 1349897753 763588 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t let m >>= f = \q k -> m q (\x -> (f x) q k) in (>>=) < 1349897754 965685 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall t t1 t2 t3 t4. (t -> (t1 -> t2) -> t3) -> (t1 -> t -> t4 -> t2) -> t -> t4 -> t3 < 1349897758 99283 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ion: I guess you'd have to join the list. Should I ask? < 1349897909 719908 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i guess there's a forall on the (t1 -> t2) vs. t4 part < 1349897923 21959 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait < 1349897927 679493 :atriq!~Taneb@host-84-13-93-227.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, I need to make someone who's trying to be cool by pretending to be a discordian look like an idiot < 1349897934 710295 :atriq!~Taneb@host-84-13-93-227.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Advice? < 1349897961 107288 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log newtype CA < 1349898003 618098 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1349898006 382855 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log newtype CA < 1349898019 632041 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2012-10-10.txt:19:39:21: `log newtype CA < 1349898047 990080 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastelogs zzo38>.*CA < 1349898053 469241 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.25933 < 1349898076 447384 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn < 1349898098 877178 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastelogs zzo38>.*\ < 1349898105 566707 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.906 < 1349898146 499609 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastelogs zzo38 codensityask < 1349898150 20901 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1349898152 823992 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.30825 < 1349898154 834264 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastelogs zzo38.*codensityask < 1349898161 877771 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.29654 < 1349898250 118949 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: If you don’t mind asking, i’d appreciate it. < 1349898319 852048 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course the housemate has to start humming precisely when my brain is _just_ out of reach of grasping this. < 1349898348 162763 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has a habit of humming < 1349898359 300305 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hires a hitman to take out Sgeo  < 1349898367 410243 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's for the good of humanity! < 1349898380 312067 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@188.134.41.171 JOIN :#esoteric < 1349898437 829700 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well, it's just the universe's way of telling me not to get anywhere near codensityask. < 1349898440 734390 :augur!~augur@129-2-129-35.wireless.umd.edu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1349898461 781743 :augur!~augur@129-2-129-35.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1349898475 886901 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hires a hitman to take out the universe < 1349898572 979789 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Challenge accepted. < 1349898616 745345 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quick or slow painful death? < 1349898626 28975 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :quick. we are not monsters either. < 1349898646 888297 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, i don't want slow painful death on my karma. < 1349898656 448391 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is CodensityAsk a zzo38 invention? < 1349898664 243174 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1349898672 500516 :atriq!~Taneb@host-84-13-93-227.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's CodensityAsk? < 1349898674 153265 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's in that last paste < 1349898788 434059 :augur!~augur@129-2-129-35.wireless.umd.edu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1349898811 879583 :augur!~augur@129-2-129-35.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1349898889 567018 :augur!~augur@129-2-129-35.wireless.umd.edu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1349898914 123231 :augur!~augur@129-2-129-35.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1349898915 782846 :atriq!~Taneb@host-84-13-93-227.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see how that's a functor < 1349898953 887575 :atriq!~Taneb@host-84-13-93-227.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you don't use the function at all < 1349898962 54898 :atriq!~Taneb@host-84-13-93-227.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In which case, it's a ridiculous Proxy < 1349899022 543206 :tswett_!~tswett@ec2-23-23-86-149.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :\m/ \m/ < 1349899034 58931 :tswett_!~tswett@ec2-23-23-86-149.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION nods solemnly. < 1349899079 181798 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38 claims it's a monad always < 1349899093 340307 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but sadly my brain cannot get close to it < 1349899137 75577 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : \m/ \m/ < 1349899143 333075 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :say it isn't so :( < 1349899173 929836 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :^celebrate < 1349899174 304332 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : \o| |o| |o/ \m/ \m/ |o/ \o/ \o| \m/ \m/ \o| |o| |o/ < 1349899183 342881 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :OUR PARTY IS RUINED < 1349899247 646646 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who was it who did that anyway? < 1349899255 13656 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi < 1349899714 792579 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:38 < atriq> kallisti, I need to make someone who's trying to be cool by pretending to be a discordian look like an idiot < 1349899720 112061 :atriq!~Taneb@host-84-13-93-227.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT'S TOO LATE < 1349899721 530824 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I am not very good at this < 1349899728 934579 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :insult their mother? < 1349899730 380956 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, no.... < 1349899734 691603 :atriq!~Taneb@host-84-13-93-227.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I HAVE PROMISED NEVER TO TALK TO HIM EVER AGAIN < 1349899747 641058 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :my usual razor-sharp wit fails me, now. < 1349899763 905607 :tswett_!~tswett@ec2-23-23-86-149.compute-1.amazonaws.com NICK :tswett < 1349899768 966670 :atriq!~Taneb@host-84-13-93-227.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of my friends was telling me a story today < 1349899771 619711 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :though a maternal insult is always a reliable choice. < 1349899788 830490 :atriq!~Taneb@host-84-13-93-227.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :About how, one christmas, she received a DVD and was struggling to open it < 1349899804 246103 :atriq!~Taneb@host-84-13-93-227.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So she asked her brother to give her a knife or a pair of scissors < 1349899807 775635 :atriq!~Taneb@host-84-13-93-227.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And he replied: < 1349899819 75964 :atriq!~Taneb@host-84-13-93-227.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Don't worry. We can use my razor-sharp wit!" < 1349899824 420614 :atriq!~Taneb@host-84-13-93-227.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the story < 1349899960 203859 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81e65c.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1349899976 655014 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: your mom is a reliable choice < 1349900808 365847 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1349900858 272881 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1349900863 988809 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523 < 1349901329 516717 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81e65c.pool.mediaWays.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1349901915 233805 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net QUIT :Quit: Poulet! < 1349902338 267936 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@188.134.41.171 QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1349902924 895163 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1349903141 515038 :atriq!~Taneb@host-84-13-93-227.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1349904555 520869 :Nisstyre-laptop!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre JOIN :#esoteric < 1349904810 105778 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1349904858 502778 :Nisstyre-laptop!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1349906024 83587 :kinoSi!~kinosi@27-96-32-84.ipq.jp QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1349906050 818683 :kinoSi!~kinosi@27-96-32-84.ipq.jp JOIN :#esoteric < 1349906140 455084 :hagb4rd!~perdito@p4FED4F2B.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1349906986 51700 :augur!~augur@129-2-129-35.wireless.umd.edu QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1349907735 301090 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1349907815 910013 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :Quit: Sleep < 1349908178 937105 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: any new thoughts on ais523's non-deterministic brainfuck? < 1349908346 796340 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1349908380 588140 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :which one was that again < 1349908413 384386 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess my current thought is that it was rather forgettable :P < 1349908432 228467 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arc_Koen: < 1349908438 812374 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ < 1349908442 649714 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops sorry < 1349908466 740393 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing to be sorry about, i just took a while answering < 1349908477 267956 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ > [ ] with [ ] identical to brainfuck and + is randomly + or - and > is randomly > or < < 1349908703 67102 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, nothing new, no. < 1349908723 195033 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it may be particularly hard to use >< < 1349908750 856811 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the point? < 1349908770 353426 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :to see if it's still possible to do anything in it, presumably < 1349908843 606036 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1349909045 281953 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it may be simpler starting with boolean cells (and + always flipping the bit) < 1349909067 487898 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://samuelhughes.com/boof/ < 1349909094 57169 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then maybe use [>] to move to nearest zero cell, digfill-style < 1349909412 537838 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just don't see any way to reliably return to a cell. < 1349909467 716720 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well if you're on a cell with all the cells to the right zero and the cell to the left 1 < 1349909491 675145 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean if there is a nontrivial pattern of cell values. < 1349909493 974204 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm that doesn't even work if the cell you're in is 1 < 1349909529 136529 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well if we can find a pattern that makes it possible, then we *only* need to make programs that keep that pattern < 1349909613 279607 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, gnight < 1349909619 667726 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :night < 1349909745 520951 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1349910247 4805 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :urrrh why is there no sum or successor function with type char in ocaml < 1349910408 554123 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map succ "I dunno, use haskell >:P" < 1349910409 577510 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "J!evoop-!vtf!ibtlfmm!?;Q" < 1349910439 386663 :jiella!~jiella@cs27103076.pp.htv.fi QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1349910481 598683 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't have sum though, not that summing unicode codepoints makes sense. < 1349910483 827405 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ibtlfmm, huh? < 1349910519 320311 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: you didn't get zzo38's language name before? :) < 1349910533 352263 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Sure I did. < 1349910560 727285 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: note that < and > all do at least move < 1349910565 405241 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you always know if you're on evens or odds < 1349910575 525451 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this may make it possible to maintain two numbers on the stack, somehow < 1349910670 112513 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1349910672 966763 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :two numbers < 1349910674 540713 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :full stop < 1349910676 608627 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :on odds and evens of the tape < 1349910683 58542 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1349910709 767985 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, not if you use > in a loop... < 1349910711 606419 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is that the value of the numbers is pretty fuzzy and hard to determine < 1349910715 318753 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: if you do [>] < 1349910736 569139 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you're moving until you find some blank cell that has no blank cells between it and your current location < 1349910738 350620 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you do [>>] < 1349910744 399458 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the same except for respecting oddness/evenness < 1349910748 790346 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am not sure there is a reliable way to distinguish more than even vs. odd numbers, zero is a subset of even but can you reliably set some cell to non-zero even? < 1349910782 780262 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: [+] < 1349910784 363380 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1349910785 871245 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[+]+ < 1349910789 354865 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :reliably sets it to 1 or -1 < 1349910797 568649 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :non-zero _even_ i said < 1349910831 819470 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is definitely no way to distinguish 1 from -1, by symmetry < 1349910862 473918 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not that i think you meant that) < 1349910881 375386 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not convinced you can reliably distinguish 1 from 2 without an infinite loop < 1349910895 643517 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :on one of the cases < 1349910909 661144 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but let's see < 1349910936 407040 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :something along the lines of [+]++[>] seems promising < 1349910943 623732 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :except you can't figure out where the pointer is afterwards < 1349910946 965541 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you'd need to put it in a loop < 1349910955 558616 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that could easily keep it as 0 < 1349910957 942400 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1349910965 104785 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the idea is you loop until the [>] runs and moves the pointer < 1349910969 62494 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can't detect whether it moved or not < 1349910990 30657 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could just do [[+]++[rest of program here]] < 1349910995 253092 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that doesn't repeat < 1349911003 867098 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort of a limited cps < 1349911009 64046 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1349911016 656336 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it /does/ repeat, if you only have one of them < 1349911026 235948 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could drop out of the main loop to set cells to 2/-2 < 1349911102 505681 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm an observation: if a run of non-zero's is even in length, then you _can_ reliably get to the zero at a chosen end < 1349911123 961331 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :by [>>] or >[>>] < 1349911146 727564 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1349911155 546283 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :from a known point inside it < 1349911156 431170 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, not at a chosen end < 1349911162 827138 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :left/right symmetry < 1349911167 763511 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I see < 1349911171 967357 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :by using the length as an indicator < 1349911176 171303 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeha < 1349911178 628494 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ah < 1349911191 68108 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, couldn't you also end up one past the other end? < 1349911200 207461 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm < 1349911204 859258 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn < 1349912522 226625 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Quit: that's dr. turing to you, punk < 1349912605 273428 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder if this is somehow related to an idea i've had - a brainfuck variant where you can only apply + to 0 and - to 1, and any other use of them is undefined behavior < 1349912641 518948 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :your language seems much easier < 1349912645 56411 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's sort of an intersection of every bf cell size with unbounded tape, but still TC < 1349912657 995298 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah it has no >< problem < 1349912658 364751 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, it's obviously TC < 1349912679 622248 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can emulate boolfuck flip with 2 cells easily < 1349912779 541296 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the relation i thought of is just that your variant has those operations as + (or [+]+) and [+] respectively < 1349913411 851579 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :+[>>]+[>>]+ creates a 10101 pattern and puts you at one end < 1349913481 424096 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :+[>]+[>]+[>>]+ creates a 11101 pattern < 1349913596 798460 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :neither [+]+ nor [+] cares about the original value