00:32:41 -!- atriq has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
00:44:34 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
01:14:13 -!- oklopol has joined.
01:22:45 <Sgeo> If there's only one place that something's being deployed, it's fine to use features specific to that environment, right?
01:22:48 <Sgeo> (e.g. named pipes)
01:23:27 <Bike> that depends on a lot of factors, don't you think? like whether whoever you're deploying it for might want to spread out later, or whether you're being paid enough to care
01:37:37 <kmc> also named pipes are supported by most operating systems
01:39:32 <Sgeo> I feel like I should be using local sockets, not sure if that's easier or not :/
01:39:46 <Sgeo> Basically, PHP page acts as a client and long running Python script acts as a server
01:39:56 <kmc> PHP: not even once
01:41:08 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
01:41:47 -!- copumpkin has joined.
01:46:59 <kmc> maybe you could write the client in a language other than the worst language ever
01:48:01 <Sgeo> All it's going to do is serve the data to an AJAX call
01:49:45 <Sgeo> Hmm, JSONP is a thing that exists that I could use
01:49:52 <Sgeo> But then I'd have to learn some sort of ... hm
01:50:07 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
01:54:37 <kmc> why not serve it from the python process
01:55:15 <Sgeo> Because I'd have to do JSONPish stuff
01:55:20 <Sgeo> Which I guess I can do
01:55:28 <kmc> why would you
01:55:30 <Sgeo> I don't know if I can run a Python process on this server to do web stuff
01:55:30 <kmc> how does that follow
01:55:49 <Sgeo> Because I'm still using some other server for most of the web stuff
01:56:00 <Sgeo> Not going to start messing with that, it's not really under my control
01:56:09 <kmc> ah, you are on some kind of shared hosting and you have mod_php and not mod_wsgi or mod_fastcgi
01:56:30 <kmc> i still don't see what this has to do with JSONP
01:56:41 <Sgeo> Phantom_Hoover, yes
01:56:46 <kmc> is it because you would have to host it on a different domain
01:56:55 <Sgeo> I don't know anything about mod_wsgi or mod_fastcgi
01:57:01 <Sgeo> Those could be installed, I guess
01:57:08 <Sgeo> I have no idea
01:57:16 <kmc> i guess what i'm saying is, your frontend web server (apache or whatever) knows how to talk to PHP, but not Python?
01:57:17 <Sgeo> It would be on a different port
01:57:18 <lambdabot> Sgeo: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
01:57:38 <Sgeo> kmc, I have no idea if it knows how to talk to a long running Python process
01:57:39 <kmc> well typically web apps are configured with a frontend server proxying to one or more application server processes
01:58:11 <kmc> the proxying can be literally HTTP proxying over localhost, or it could be FastCGI protocol, or WSGI which is a python-spceific thing I don't know much about
02:00:46 <Sgeo> "These days, FastCGI is never used directly. Just like mod_python, it is only used for the deployment of WSGI applications."
02:00:58 <Sgeo> I really just want to do a two second thing, why can't I just FastCGI directly
02:01:05 <kmc> i'm not really sure what that means "never used directly"
02:01:18 <kmc> it's probably lies
02:01:40 <kmc> it's true that whatever's on the other end that parses the fastcgi requests will probably go through WSGI
02:01:46 <kmc> because most python web app frameworks are built around WSGI
02:02:15 <Lumpio-> 04:00:58 < Sgeo> I really just want to do a two second thing, why can't I just FastCGI directly
02:02:21 <Lumpio-> Because it's easier to do wsgi
02:02:27 <kmc> at work we are using FastCGI because nginx's native wsgi support seemed pretty half-baked
02:02:38 <kmc> and because we know about fastcgi and have used it before
02:03:16 <kmc> the extent of it is that I went to http://wiki.nginx.org/NgxWSGIModule and observed "From LoONeYChIKuN: I was able to successfully get this to compile on 0.8.30 and 0.7.64 using this patch." and "From JacobSingh: I tested this against 0.6.23 and it didn't compile."
02:03:17 <Sgeo> I could easily just take this code snippit on this page and adapt it to my needs
02:03:28 <Sgeo> Not that difficult
02:04:51 <kmc> http://blog.zacharyvoase.com/2010/03/05/django-uwsgi-nginx/ looks pretty complicated compared to "apt-get install nginx python-flup"
02:05:13 <Lumpio-> Well that's mostly because it starting from compiling freaking nginx
02:05:54 <kmc> well why does it seem that everyone who wants to use nginx with wsgi has to compile it from scratch with weird patches etc
02:06:19 <kmc> i didn't do in-depth research, but this pattern seemed to bode poorly
02:06:23 <kmc> what did you do
02:07:09 <Lumpio-> pacman -S nginx; yaourt -S uwsgi
02:07:24 <shachaf> I spent a while puzzling through this overly-simple generate Core before realizing that I had main = return ()
02:07:35 <Lumpio-> Granted that second command does actually compile the thing but it's automatic. Think Gentoo except better
02:08:54 <Lumpio-> I think it also creates the init script
02:09:09 <Lumpio-> (Which will probably break in the next update due to systemd but hey)
02:09:36 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
02:10:04 <Lumpio-> But at any rate, I can now get a WSGI app to magically appear in a location by putting two or three lines in the respective place in nginx's configuration
02:10:21 <Lumpio-> ...I wouldn't run Arch on a server though
02:10:30 <Lumpio-> I mean, on a server that has some sort of reliability requirement
02:10:30 <kmc> so do you have to run some separate uwsgi process or does nginx launch that
02:11:07 <Sgeo> I don't think it's working
02:11:09 <Lumpio-> But setting that up is a one-time thing (just like any other daemon)
02:11:16 <Lumpio-> And it can run multiple apps
02:12:11 <Lumpio-> That's the easiest way I've been able to figure out how to run Python web stuff under nginx
02:12:18 <Lumpio-> Least configuration per app
02:12:24 <kmc> okay, cool
02:12:27 <kmc> thanks for the info :)
02:14:01 <Sgeo> ENGINE Serving on 127.0.0.1:8080
02:14:07 <Sgeo> (With CherryPy)
02:14:21 <Sgeo> Yet I can't access it from my browser
02:14:31 <Sgeo> Wondering if need to config to make it externally visible
02:15:36 <kmc> well is it running on the same machine as your browser?
02:16:39 <kmc> well, that's why then
02:16:47 <kmc> it's listening on the interface with IP 127.0.0.1
02:28:58 <Sgeo> Do I need to find the exact IP of the server?
02:31:19 <kmc> your computer is broadcasting an IP address!
02:31:34 <kmc> if you want to listen on all interfaces you can probably say ":8080" or "0.0.0.0:8080" on the command line
02:31:39 <kmc> i don't know what exactly you did to invoke cherrypy
02:31:42 -!- ais523 has quit.
02:32:59 <Sgeo> Found a configuration thing
02:33:13 <Sgeo> It's still not working
02:34:54 -!- Sgeo_ has joined.
02:35:06 <Sgeo_> I give up, I'll do the PHP thing
02:35:11 -!- TeruFSX_ has joined.
02:37:54 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
02:37:59 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
02:44:55 <kmc> that's like saying school is too hard, so you're going to drop out and smoke crack under a bridge
02:45:29 <Sgeo_> Sort of have a harsh deadline right now, so don't really care
02:45:41 <Sgeo_> (Because I procrastinated all weekend)
02:47:04 <shachaf> Why is benchmarking hard? :-(
02:53:45 <Arc_Koen> I was just thinking, they could try to use the gate's technology to clone people
02:53:58 <Arc_Koen> and then I watch this episode and what does McKay do?
03:00:19 <kmc> http://www.inc.com/magazine/20110201/in-norway-start-ups-say-ja-to-socialism.html
03:03:43 -!- Jafet has quit (Quit: Leaving.).
03:07:28 <kmc> would you say that the abbreviation of plural "file descriptors" is "fds", "FDs", "fd's", or "FD's"
03:08:47 * shachaf is on the anti-apostrophe-pluralization committee.
03:09:43 <kmc> yeah, i gather it is only correct in limited cases
03:09:46 <kmc> like single letters
03:10:28 <shachaf> I don't even like it in those limited cases.
03:10:38 <shachaf> That may be an overreaction.
03:10:58 <shachaf> Well, in the case of a single letter I'm fine with it if you put apostrophes on both sides of the letter. :-)
03:20:15 <Arc_Koen> Well in the case of a single letter I'm fine with putting apostrophes on both sides of the letter if you put s's on both sides too
03:20:37 <kmc> obviously the plural of 'o' is 'ꙮ'
03:21:09 <Arc_Koen> s'probably something wrong with encoding but I see that as "the plural of 'round' is 'square'"
03:21:16 <shachaf> kmc never misses an opportunity to ꙮ.
03:21:27 <shachaf> Arc_Koen: I think that's just because you're racist or something.
03:21:47 <Arc_Koen> why didn't anyone warn me before
03:22:06 <Arc_Koen> I think I had the right to know if I was racist
03:22:29 <Arc_Koen> wonder what "or something" might be, though
03:23:32 <Arc_Koen> hey, hasn't anyone come up with "2-dimensional Thue" yet?
03:23:39 <kmc> it's 'CYRILLIC LETTER MULTIOCULAR O' (U+A66E)
03:24:17 <kmc> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiocular_O
03:24:47 <kmc> it bothers me that the unicode reference glyph has 7 eyes, and the only primary source for the character I could locate has 10 eyes
03:25:08 <kmc> Arc_Koen: I spent a long time tracking down the origin of this character with help from various people on IRC and such
03:25:22 <kmc> had to find a copy of a soviet era paleography textbook on russian rapidshare
03:27:10 <kmc> oh no, "Proposal to encode additional Cyrillic characters in the BMP of the UCS" is now a 404
03:27:33 <Arc_Koen> http://imageshack.us/scaled/landing/809/capturedcran20121113042.png
03:28:02 <Arc_Koen> it's like they *want* me not to see it
03:28:06 <kmc> get some better fonts
03:28:21 <kmc> that article has a picture though
03:28:28 <kmc> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Cyrillic_letter_Multiocular_O.png
03:29:03 <Arc_Koen> don't you think that might be dangerous?
03:31:53 <Arc_Koen> (that was supposed to be a reference to discworld btw)
03:31:59 -!- Arc_Koen has quit (Quit: Arc_Koen).
03:34:00 <kmc> apparently most hands in texas hold-'em are not worth playing
03:34:16 <Bike> you can bet on anything~
03:34:36 <kmc> what do you mean
03:39:31 -!- ogrom has joined.
03:42:47 -!- copumpkin has changed nick to Sssateneth.
03:43:31 -!- Sssateneth has changed nick to copumpkin.
04:14:02 <zzo38> kmc: Well, yes, you get only two cards so it is difficult to know right away if it is best to play; however there is other things such as your current score, position, current bet, various other things to decide if it is worth playing or not; the probabilities are just one factor of many. But if you have two aces and no flop cards yet, you should probably play.
04:14:57 <zzo38> If you have two aces, the flop cards two of them are aces, and the third is 2 to 9, then you should definitely play.
04:15:20 <zzo38> Well, maybe not 2 to 9, maybe 6 to 9.
04:16:50 <zzo38> Actually I think I am wrong.
04:16:57 <zzo38> But nevertheless you should probably play.
04:17:43 -!- comex has quit (Excess Flood).
04:18:25 <Sgeo_> I want to hurt whoever designed the Python version of the PubNub API.
04:19:43 <shachaf> Sgeo_: What does that have to do with Clojure?
04:20:38 <Sgeo_> This project I'm working on that involves Python and PHP and PubNub is more important than the little Clojure project I have going. Does that count as having something to do with Clojure?
04:23:05 <Sgeo_> subscribe is blocking. I want the event loop to be separate from subscribe
04:23:33 <Sgeo_> kmc, I think this is a good example of that article you linked, an advantage of node.js being that people make interoperable APIs
04:27:12 <Sgeo_> And importantly, things other than the event loop wouldn't block *glare*
04:27:40 <Sgeo_> I need to subscribe to an indeterminate number of channels, not just one. I don't think Python threads are lightweight]
04:28:29 <kmc> python threads are a disaster
04:28:57 -!- comex has joined.
04:28:58 -!- comex has quit (Excess Flood).
04:29:10 <Sgeo_> Not using them for parallel processing, just using them to get around the blocking API
04:29:56 <Sgeo_> And it's blocking because of a while True: not because of some C stuff.
04:30:19 <Sgeo_> So, are they a disaster in a way other than the GIL, because I don't see how the GIL would hurt my use-case
04:33:18 -!- Jafet has joined.
04:44:15 <zzo38> I made some more rules of Pokemon game
04:44:16 <zzo38> EVOLUTION DURING MATCH = PREVENT | DISQUALIFY | KNOCK OUT | DELETE | DELAY | ALLOW | ITEMS ONLY
04:44:30 <zzo38> INVALID TARGET CORRECTION = AUTO SAME SIDE | AUTO ANY SIDE | MISS | PROMPT | USER FAINTS | LOSE BATTLE | DISQUALIFY
04:44:41 -!- lightquake has joined.
04:45:00 <zzo38> DISQUALIFY IF TEAM BECOMES INVALID DURING MATCH = NO | YES | ONLY BETWEEN BATTLES | ONLY BEFORE BATTLES AND IGNORING COMPUTER | DELETE VIOLATIONS | DELETE VIOLATIONS BETWEEN BATTLES
04:45:12 <zzo38> SPEED TIE BREAKER 1 = SIMULTANEOUS | RANDOM | BID | HIGHER LEVEL | LOWER LEVEL | TYPE DISADVANTAGE | DAMAGE | ALTERNATION | COMMAND ENTRY TIME
04:45:38 <zzo38> SURRENDER COMMAND = BATTLE | MATCH
04:45:50 <zzo38> SNAG OPPONENT'S POKEMON = NO | YES | ANTICIPATED BLOCK | ANTICIPATED EVADE | ANTICIPATED BLOCK AND EVADE
04:46:46 <zzo38> DELETED POKEMON GO TO OPPONENT'S COMPUTER = NO | YES
04:47:20 <zzo38> What are you think of such things as this?
04:48:18 <quintopia> or card-collecting games in general
04:48:31 <quintopia> btw, who wants some old mtg cards?
04:48:56 <quintopia> you can have them for 8 bucks shipping included
04:49:25 <zzo38> I don't want any; I only play Limited.
04:58:10 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
05:11:57 <Sgeo_> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=477454
05:12:15 <Sgeo_> An argument about whether or not it's a horrific thing that there's an insult in the code
05:12:17 -!- Nisstyre has joined.
05:12:27 <Sgeo_> It's agreed that it's bad, but not agreed if it's urgently bad
05:25:11 <kmc> they didn't even spell his name right
05:25:36 -!- ogrom has quit (Quit: Left).
05:26:12 <zzo38> Once I wrote a "impossible physics list", among other things it includes smaller atoms and universes where thirteen is not prime.
05:28:01 <kmc> smaller than what?
05:29:28 <zzo38> Smaller than hydrogen atoms.
05:30:38 <Bike> what if the nuclear forces were stronger?
05:33:19 <zzo38> It is based on I read a impossible physics book, which includes such things as invisibility, antimatter, starships, death star, and a few things, grouped into class I to class III impossibility.
05:37:51 <zzo38> In my list I also included: making time go sideways, subjuctive television, Pokemon, dreams that it is impossible to wake up, anti-logic zones, people with mirrored molecules, ...
05:40:56 -!- comex has joined.
05:40:57 -!- comex has quit (Excess Flood).
05:41:09 -!- comex has joined.
05:41:55 -!- comex has quit (Excess Flood).
05:42:03 -!- comex has joined.
05:42:24 -!- comex has quit (Excess Flood).
05:43:50 -!- comex has joined.
05:50:33 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
05:50:51 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
05:51:20 -!- Sgeo_ has joined.
06:08:14 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
06:08:36 -!- augur has joined.
06:19:47 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
06:47:03 -!- oklofok has joined.
06:49:36 -!- oklopol has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
07:48:30 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
07:49:01 -!- copumpkin has joined.
08:05:46 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
08:09:36 <shachaf> > (["hi","there"],["new","haskellers"]) % partsOf (both.traverse.traverse) .~ "GREETINGS"
08:09:38 <lambdabot> (["GR","EETIN"],["GSw","haskellers"])
08:09:51 <shachaf> > (["hi","there"],["new","haskellers"]) % partsOf (both.traverse.traverse) %~ reverse
08:09:53 <lambdabot> (["sr","ellek"],["sah","wenerehtih"])
08:10:26 -!- epicmonkey has joined.
08:12:28 <shachaf> > (["hi","there"],["new","haskellers"]) % partsOf (both.traverse.traverse) %~ reverse % both %~ reverse
08:12:31 <lambdabot> (["ellek","sr"],["wenerehtih","sah"])
08:12:36 <shachaf> You're thinking of Ellek Sr.
08:13:05 <fizzie> Senior Engineer Señor Ellek Sr.
08:17:03 -!- FreeFull has quit (Quit: have to go now).
08:35:00 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Read error: Operation timed out).
08:37:56 -!- nooga has joined.
09:17:48 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello).
09:42:40 -!- epicmonkey has joined.
09:51:00 -!- atriq has joined.
09:53:04 <atriq> I like the most recent Girl Genius
09:56:03 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
09:56:34 -!- copumpkin has joined.
10:01:20 -!- Sgeo__ has joined.
10:04:14 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
10:12:00 -!- Sgeo__ has quit (*.net *.split).
10:12:00 -!- TeruFSX_ has quit (*.net *.split).
10:12:00 -!- trout has quit (*.net *.split).
10:12:00 -!- nooga has quit (*.net *.split).
10:12:01 -!- Gregor has quit (*.net *.split).
10:12:01 -!- Lumpio- has quit (*.net *.split).
10:12:01 -!- sirdancealot7 has quit (*.net *.split).
10:12:01 -!- atehwa has quit (*.net *.split).
10:12:01 -!- lifthrasiir has quit (*.net *.split).
10:12:02 -!- mtve has quit (*.net *.split).
10:12:02 -!- augur has quit (*.net *.split).
10:12:02 -!- oonbotti has quit (*.net *.split).
10:12:02 -!- SimonRC has quit (*.net *.split).
10:12:02 -!- aloril_ has quit (*.net *.split).
10:12:16 -!- monqy has joined.
10:15:41 -!- Sgeo__ has joined.
10:15:41 -!- nooga has joined.
10:15:41 -!- augur has joined.
10:15:41 -!- TeruFSX_ has joined.
10:15:41 -!- Gregor has joined.
10:15:41 -!- Lumpio- has joined.
10:15:41 -!- sirdancealot7 has joined.
10:15:41 -!- trout has joined.
10:15:41 -!- atehwa has joined.
10:15:41 -!- oonbotti has joined.
10:15:41 -!- SimonRC has joined.
10:15:41 -!- aloril_ has joined.
10:15:41 -!- lifthrasiir has joined.
10:15:41 -!- mtve has joined.
10:20:38 -!- Gracenotes has quit (*.net *.split).
10:20:38 -!- heroux has quit (*.net *.split).
10:20:38 -!- clog has quit (*.net *.split).
10:20:38 -!- lahwran has quit (*.net *.split).
10:20:38 -!- hogeyui has quit (*.net *.split).
10:22:04 -!- heroux has joined.
10:22:05 -!- Gracenotes has joined.
10:22:05 -!- clog has joined.
10:22:05 -!- lahwran has joined.
10:22:05 -!- hogeyui has joined.
10:23:24 -!- EgoBot has quit (*.net *.split).
10:23:24 -!- HackEgo has quit (*.net *.split).
10:23:24 -!- fungot has quit (*.net *.split).
10:24:04 -!- EgoBot has joined.
10:24:04 -!- HackEgo has joined.
10:24:04 -!- fungot has joined.
10:26:42 -!- heroux has quit (*.net *.split).
10:26:43 -!- clog has quit (*.net *.split).
10:26:43 -!- lahwran has quit (*.net *.split).
10:26:43 -!- hogeyui has quit (*.net *.split).
10:27:15 -!- heroux has joined.
10:27:15 -!- clog has joined.
10:27:15 -!- lahwran has joined.
10:27:15 -!- hogeyui has joined.
10:28:17 -!- soundnfury has quit (*.net *.split).
10:28:17 -!- glogbackup has quit (*.net *.split).
10:28:17 -!- rodgort has quit (*.net *.split).
10:28:18 -!- shachaf has quit (*.net *.split).
10:28:45 -!- glogbackup has joined.
10:28:45 -!- soundnfury has joined.
10:28:45 -!- rodgort has joined.
10:28:45 -!- shachaf has joined.
10:28:49 -!- glogbackup has left.
10:28:54 -!- glogbackup has quit (Excess Flood).
10:30:00 -!- atriq has quit (*.net *.split).
10:30:00 -!- tswett has quit (*.net *.split).
10:30:29 -!- atriq has joined.
10:30:29 -!- tswett has joined.
10:45:13 -!- glogbackup has quit (Read error: Connection timed out).
10:58:20 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello).
11:12:24 <atriq> I think this is becoming one of the most ridiculously overkill brainfuck interpreters ever
11:14:43 <atriq> Needs more comonads
11:19:45 -!- segorev has joined.
11:29:01 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
11:29:32 -!- copumpkin has joined.
11:41:57 -!- ais523 has joined.
11:46:14 -!- hagb4rd has joined.
12:13:59 -!- ais523_ has joined.
12:15:26 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
12:16:04 -!- ais523_ has changed nick to ais523.
12:25:21 -!- ais523_ has joined.
12:27:21 -!- ais523 has quit (Disconnected by services).
12:27:23 -!- ais523_ has changed nick to ais523.
12:43:16 -!- ais523 has quit.
12:43:43 -!- ais523 has joined.
12:45:40 -!- mroman has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
12:45:54 -!- mroman has joined.
12:47:33 -!- ais523_ has joined.
12:48:40 -!- ais523_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
12:48:52 -!- ais523_ has joined.
12:49:18 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
12:49:34 -!- nooodl_ has joined.
12:51:26 -!- ais523_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
12:51:39 -!- ais523_ has joined.
12:53:26 -!- ais523_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
12:53:33 -!- ais523__ has joined.
12:53:36 -!- ais523__ has changed nick to ais523.
12:57:44 -!- ais523_ has joined.
12:58:02 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
12:58:19 -!- ais523_ has changed nick to ais523.
12:59:13 -!- nooodl_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
13:00:33 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
13:00:54 -!- ais523 has joined.
13:07:50 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
13:09:28 -!- nooga has joined.
13:42:31 -!- elliott has joined.
13:46:32 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
13:46:44 -!- ais523 has joined.
14:00:45 -!- segorev has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep).
14:01:01 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Operation timed out).
14:07:14 -!- boily has joined.
14:20:36 <atriq> Fueue is a ridiculous language
14:25:03 -!- Arc_Koen has joined.
14:37:29 -!- ais523 has joined.
14:39:33 -!- segorev has joined.
14:40:47 -!- segorev has quit (Client Quit).
14:41:15 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
14:41:30 -!- ais523 has joined.
14:44:18 -!- carado has joined.
14:45:31 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.).
15:02:32 -!- ais523 has quit.
15:07:02 -!- copumpkin has joined.
15:13:12 -!- Frooxius has joined.
15:17:32 -!- Bike has joined.
15:27:36 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
16:04:39 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
16:07:15 -!- nooodl has joined.
16:18:06 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
16:22:16 -!- ais523 has joined.
16:23:08 <ais523> huh, that was a surprisingly thoughtful scam email
16:23:17 <ais523> the thought behind it was that it actually identified my mail provider correctly
16:23:22 <ais523> admittedly, it could have done that from the address
16:32:24 <atriq> Arc_Koen, in your implementations of Fueue, what was the divide by zero behaviour?
16:33:17 <Arc_Koen> well I remember asking you a few times, and since you said it was unspecified, I guess I must have let it for Ocaml to raise its appropriate exception
16:34:23 <Arc_Koen> oh, wait I had two implementations
16:34:39 <Arc_Koen> ~/desktop/ocaml stephan$ gcc -o fueue fueue.c
16:34:39 <Arc_Koen> ~/desktop/ocaml stephan$ ./fueue '/ 5 0'
16:35:23 <Arc_Koen> ~/desktop/ocaml stephan$ ocamlc -o fueue fueue.ml
16:35:23 <Arc_Koen> ~/desktop/ocaml stephan$ ./fueue '/ 5 0'
16:35:23 <Arc_Koen> Fatal error: exception Division_by_zero
16:35:43 <atriq> I'm trying to do my version, except better, this time
16:35:57 <Arc_Koen> so the ocaml one clearly raise Division_by_zero when doing the division
16:36:08 <Arc_Koen> I'm not sure when the Floating point exception occurs in the C one, though
16:38:07 <Arc_Koen> yup, so floating point only seem to occur with 0
16:38:30 <atriq> Good, I think that's what I meant
16:39:00 -!- augur has joined.
16:44:16 <nooodl> hmmm i'm thinking up quite the language here!
16:44:16 <lambdabot> nooodl: You have 3 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them.
16:45:27 <nooodl> here's the deal: befunge, on an infinite-D 2x2x2x2x2x... board
16:46:02 <nooodl> so your position is just a binary number. by default the pointer goes 0, 1, 0, 1, 0, 1, etc
16:47:23 <elliott> nooodl: then most positions on the board are inaccessible
16:47:26 <elliott> or the language is super-TC
16:48:34 <atriq> I'd reckon it's linear-bounded
16:48:49 <atriq> If there's a start moving in direction n command
16:49:06 <atriq> nooodl, a turing-machine is less powerful than it if it's super-TC
16:50:02 <atriq> A Turing-machine is a kind of machine which is conjectured to be able to execute any well-defined algorithm
16:51:55 <nooodl> anyway, moving around involves just going "x ^= dx", however, i'm going to somehow implement being able to modify multiple derivatives of x
16:52:05 -!- ais523_ has joined.
16:52:56 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds).
16:53:13 <nooodl> so with multi-dimensional wrapping and speed, acceleration, jerk, jounce etc. set, you can make more intersting loops around the board
16:55:32 -!- ais523_ has changed nick to ais523.
16:57:29 <nooodl> http://codepad.org/ZgbFzZ1c apparently you can make paths with a length of up to 2^ceil(log2(x)) when you define x derivatives of position
16:59:20 <Arc_Koen> nooodl: http://esolangs.org/wiki/List_of_ideas#Based_on_dimensions
16:59:21 <nooodl> or uh, not really. it's 2^ceil(log2(x-1)), or something. anyway, to move around, instead of setting dx and dy to some value like befunge, you push dx, ddx, dddx, ddddx etc. onto a "movement stack"
16:59:55 <elliott> I am saying that either you cannot set the position to most possible values or your language is uncomputable
17:00:32 <Arc_Koen> nooodl: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Talk:Hcbf
17:02:53 <nooodl> yeah, the coords have to end with an infinite amount of 0s
17:03:16 <oklofok> uncomputable is such a broad term
17:03:34 <nooodl> there's no bound to the number of dimensions your position can have, but it can't ever be infinite
17:03:56 <oklofok> inf-anf-oh at least had periodic points
17:05:28 <Arc_Koen> if you can unambiguously describe an infinite binary sequence, it should be ok :)
17:06:57 <nooodl> i've considered that. representing position as a function (N -> Bool)
17:07:20 <Arc_Koen> but you'd need to have means to test those functions for equality, at least
17:07:46 <Arc_Koen> and thing is I'm not sure you'd be adding much to the language by allowing infinite sequence
17:08:21 <elliott> <Arc_Koen> if you can unambiguously describe an infinite binary sequence, it should be ok :)
17:08:33 <elliott> almost all infinite binary sequences cannot be described by any finite program
17:08:45 <Arc_Koen> for instance, "rational numbers" or whatever you call repeated sequences, can be describe with a notation such as "(finite sequence)*"
17:08:55 <oklofok> unless your measure has atoms
17:09:31 <Arc_Koen> but in that case you're only adding the possibility to put a * after a finite sequence, so you are only "multiplying by two" the possibilities, which is kinda lame since there already are an infinite number of them
17:10:42 <nooodl> things stay considerably more sane if you don't allow for coordinates like (1, 1, 1, 1, 1, ...)
17:12:46 <oklofok> so, are you using the cantor topology for the space of all positions
17:12:50 <ais523> "comparing functions for equality" is on my mental list of "the simplest things you can't do"
17:13:23 <oklofok> ais523: you have some nice language for describing sequences so that equality is decidable right?
17:14:47 <oklofok> there's automatic sequences and fixed points of substitutions
17:15:34 <oklofok> although perhaps for the latter equality is not in general decidable, but i think it is for primitive substitutions or something
17:15:47 <Arc_Koen> the first time I thought about creating my own language I had an idea to include infinite sequences in it
17:16:33 <Arc_Koen> using lazy-evaluating for-like statements and a few other things of the like
17:17:41 <nooodl> not every infinite sequence is describable, though, right
17:24:04 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds).
17:24:29 <oklofok> pretty much everything you'll ever need is describable
17:25:20 <oklofok> (in math you occasionally need things you cannot describe exactly, but are members of some nonempty set you can describe)
17:25:48 <elliott> nooodl: (in case it isn't clear, positions in your language are isomorphic to reals)
17:26:54 <nooodl> well if i'm not allowing for anything that doesn't end in "0 repeating" they're isomorphic to naturals, right
17:27:25 <nooodl> because (0, 1, 0, 1, 1, 0 repeating) is just 0b11010
17:28:55 <ais523> nooodl: and if you allow any sequence to repeat, it's isomorphic to the rationals
17:29:00 <ais523> which are isomorphic to the integers
17:29:11 <ais523> as in, always ends with a repeating sequence but you can specify waht
17:29:58 <atriq> Which was the basis of my informal proof the other day in a maths lesson that the digits of pi cannot be found within pi except for the obvious case of starting from the beginning
17:30:45 <atriq> Because it implies repetition, which implies rationality
17:30:49 <atriq> And pi is irrational
17:31:01 <oklofok> a characterization of periodicity is indeed that the sequence contains itself as a tail
17:31:40 <oklofok> it's harder to prove that pi is irrational presumably
17:32:42 -!- FreeFull has joined.
17:32:56 <oklofok> another characterization is this: there exists n such that the sequence contains at most n n-letter substrings
17:33:17 <oklofok> can you prove this? can you think of a two-dimensional analogue? is it true? can you prove it?
17:34:08 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
17:35:00 <oklofok> the natural two-dimensional version is called nivat's conjecture
17:35:10 -!- Vorpal has joined.
17:36:11 <oklofok> so it's known that if there are at most 2n rectangles of shape n times 2, then the configuration is periodic (in at least one direction)
17:36:49 <oklofok> and recently it was proved that if there are at most nk/2 subrectangles of shape n times k then again it's periodic in some direction.
17:37:28 <elliott> how recently are we talking here
17:38:35 <oklofok> we're going through the paper now, it's a bit annoying since we came up with all the main ideas in a seminar a few years back, except for the crucial idea of writing anything down.
17:39:04 <oklofok> (mostly based on the work of a guy in our university who had the record nk/16 then)
17:39:14 <elliott> how long until nk/1?!?!?!?!
17:42:45 <oklofok> well what makes the question interesting is of course that you can easily find a binary configuration that isn't periodic and you have nk+1 ways to fill each n times k rectangle
17:43:02 <oklofok> but nk - the natural counterpart to the 1d result - is a huge mystery
17:43:24 <oklofok> then again that's math for ya
17:43:36 <oklofok> it's awesome what you gonna do
17:44:11 <oklofok> i can prove it for nk/infinity:
17:44:34 <oklofok> assume the configuration x has nk/infinity = 0 subrectangles of n times k
17:47:31 <oklofok> well you have all the time in the world
17:47:51 <Phantom_Hoover> still mostly boring, although geometry stopped and abstract algebra started
17:48:21 <oklofok> abstract algebra is nice yes
17:48:27 <oklofok> we're writing our first algebra paper kinda
17:48:34 <Phantom_Hoover> i'm so far behind on differential equations it's not even funny
17:48:45 <oklofok> i don't know anything about those :/
17:50:08 <Phantom_Hoover> i also haven't listened to an analysis lecture in weeks
17:51:12 <oklofok> i'm only taking one course
17:52:19 <oklofok> f'(a) = (f(x) - f(a))/(x - a) for x - a infinitely small :-)
17:56:33 <oklofok> this is one of those things for which you need an object you can't describe
17:57:41 <oklofok> nice work, can you do 6x^7 + 3x next?
17:57:47 <kmc> oh FreeFull
17:58:12 <kmc> just because what you say is true does not make it relevant or interesting
17:58:29 <oklofok> i thought it was very amusing
17:59:08 <kmc> in my experience spontaneous demonstrations of calculus ability are used mainly by drunk freshman attempting to prove that they are not drunk
17:59:41 <atriq> I'm better at calculus when drunk. I am so sorted for university.
17:59:53 <quintopia> kmc: the problem being that such people usually have atriq's ability
18:00:19 <quintopia> i know a guy whose party trick is drawing accurate political maps of various countries and continents
18:05:58 <elliott> why did FreeFull give us a bunch of derivatives of x^2
18:16:33 <kmc> did you all know the sky is blue?
18:16:39 <kmc> i just thought you should have this information
18:17:12 <kmc> e^x dx dx, e^y dy
18:22:18 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
18:23:11 <quintopia> kmc: if this sentence is a true statement, then the sky is actually reddish-green.
18:26:35 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
18:27:20 -!- augur has joined.
18:35:31 -!- epicmonkey has joined.
18:37:56 -!- comex has quit (Excess Flood).
18:40:53 -!- comex has joined.
18:40:55 -!- comex has quit (Excess Flood).
18:41:41 -!- comex has joined.
18:44:12 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
18:53:12 -!- comex has quit (Quit: Coyote finally caught me).
18:53:26 -!- comex has joined.
19:00:10 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
19:27:54 <elliott> agda has pattern synonyms now
19:29:41 <atriq> elliott, help, I'm writing another ridiculously long Haskell function
19:29:58 <atriq> I don't know how to don't!
19:32:45 <Gregor> Why don't, when you can do!
19:37:06 <atriq> It looks kind of pretty
19:44:26 <fizzie> That tornado is carrying a car.
19:46:21 <fizzie> Unless that was an atriq-directed "what.", in which case I concur.
19:49:14 <atriq> I have a warped sense of both beauty and pareidolia, okay?
20:16:49 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
20:21:03 <olsner> or, as they say... damned if you do do, damned if you don't don't
20:21:34 <olsner> oh, missed the whole "don't" discussion by about an hour
20:24:58 <tswett> You know, I've been thinking.
20:25:01 <tswett> Homestuck is pretty weird.
20:25:21 <atriq> You... just noticed
20:25:35 <tswett> I've noticed it a couple of times before.
20:25:54 <elliott> did you know that there is no computable model...
20:25:59 <atriq> For reference, http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=003831
20:26:09 <tswett> There is, in fact, a computable model of the Peano axioms.
20:26:54 <coppro> tswett: hahahahahahahahaha
20:26:57 <elliott> no no, that's not what i meant
20:28:01 <tswett> You meant a computable model of ZFC?
20:28:04 <tswett> Yeah, there isn't one of those.
20:29:13 <atriq> tswett, what specifically made you notice that Homestuck is weird
20:29:41 <tswett> A computable model of... the real numbers?
20:29:46 <tswett> I don't think there's one of those, either.
20:30:20 <tswett> atriq: I read a TV Tropes page mentioning that in Homestuck, most of the dialogue takes place via chat programs.
20:31:00 <olsner> there's no computable model of anything!
20:31:33 <tswett> There is no computable model of NFU?
20:31:35 <kmc> well there's a countable model of the real numbers
20:31:55 <tswett> There's no computable model of, uh...
20:32:47 <tswett> The semantics of Haskell?
20:33:59 <elliott> there is no computable model of a computable set of axioms that uniquely defines the natural numbers
20:34:19 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
20:34:24 <tswett> Yes, that sounds true.
20:34:41 <atriq> tswett, most of my conversations with you take place via chat programs
20:35:24 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
20:35:28 <tswett> That also sounds true.
20:36:46 <atriq> Is it that weird, in a modern world, for a significant number of conversations to take place via chat programs?
20:36:50 <atriq> Rather than face to face?
20:37:24 <tswett> What is weird is that when people *are* together in person, they never actually speak.
20:37:41 <atriq> Until Act 6 Intermission 1
20:38:04 <atriq> And only if you don't count, for example, John's conversations with Nannasprite
20:38:20 <tswett> I think the carapaced ones may have some actual conversation with each other before that.
20:38:23 <pikhq_> I am certain that I have typed more than I have said.
20:39:04 <tswett> It's just that the conversation is always paraphrased.
21:00:48 -!- carado has joined.
21:09:22 -!- augur has joined.
21:23:25 -!- segorev has joined.
21:47:09 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
21:48:36 -!- zzo38 has joined.
22:01:48 <atriq> Apparently I do not have a microphone now
22:09:39 <kmc> did somebody steal it?
22:09:58 -!- monqy has joined.
22:11:20 -!- boily has quit (Quit: Poulet!).
22:12:18 <zzo38> Is it allowed to update your candidate submission?
22:12:38 -!- atriq has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
22:12:45 <Vorpal> fizzie, speaking of controllers (well, we were yesterday): quite a few games don't properly handle mixed input devices correctly it appears
22:13:19 <Vorpal> fizzie, with that I mean switching between keyboard, controller or joystick on the fly
22:13:26 <Vorpal> which would make sense in many games
22:21:59 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
22:24:09 -!- Vorpal has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
22:33:23 -!- TodPunk has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
22:33:36 -!- TodPunk has joined.
22:35:25 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
22:39:18 <ais523> <Samsung's lawyers> According to Apple, a jury’s damages verdicts are immune from scrutiny so long as they fall “within the range encompassed by the record as a whole,” and the verdicts here fall within that “range” because they are lower than the damages Apple sought.
22:39:27 <ais523> this case has generally been hilarious
22:59:27 -!- Jafet has quit (Quit: Leaving.).
23:12:09 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.).
23:12:26 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello).
23:13:01 -!- atenea1 has joined.
23:13:32 -!- atenea1 has quit (Quit: Leaving.).
23:26:25 <kmc> "The GNU Make Standard Library (GMSL) is a collection of functions implemented using native GNU Make functionality that provide list and string manipulation, integer arithmetic, associative arrays, stacks, and debugging facilities."
23:32:13 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
23:34:00 -!- copumpkin has joined.
23:37:42 <Bike> «Integers are represented by lists with the equivalent number of x's. For example the number 4 is x x x x.»
23:38:52 <Bike> and memoization and map, too. very functional!
23:40:12 <Bike> maybe there's an Ant Standard Library
23:40:32 <kmc> i hope it's named A/S/L