00:00:08 but now it seems to be either an infinite loop or very slow 00:00:12 (and not outputting anything) 00:00:28 so I was wondering if you had any smaller, more simple programs to test 00:00:50 Arc_Koen: No, I don't have some, sorry 00:01:35 in that case the fight between the part of me that wants to complete this and the part of me that's bored and not motivated will be even harder 00:02:36 i feel like cat theory is not just an abbreviation of category theory 00:02:40 it's a theory 00:02:47 of cats 00:03:21 do you mean like 00:03:25 categories? 00:03:50 i mean 00:03:53 cats 00:03:58 felidae 00:04:40 -!- augur has joined. 00:12:22 zzo38: OK, I just wrote a Truth-machine and it works properly 00:12:51 haha http://dumbpajamas.tumblr.com/post/35998874236/its-not-an-allegation-anymore 00:12:52 Arc_Koen: Maybe my program is wrong then; if that is the case, you can fix it. 00:13:25 I will compare what instructions you use in your program that I don't use in the truth-machine 00:14:09 and if I can't see where my interpreter is wrong then I'll try to understand your program to see if it's wrong 00:14:55 -!- TodPunk has joined. 00:25:51 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 00:29:05 coppro: that's a good show 00:34:33 zzo38: haha. in fact it works fine. that's just, once again, a problem of flushing output... 00:34:46 1 1 2 3 5 8 13 21 34 55 89 144 233 377 610 987 1597 2584 4181 6765 10946 17711 28657 46368 75025 121393 196418 317811 514229 832040 1346269 ^C 00:35:33 OK 00:36:43 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:37:12 I'll write a parser someday (I really got to find some way to do that in a more automated fashion) and then we can move Suxesol to the Implemented category! 00:40:43 -!- segorev has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 00:42:25 OK 00:54:22 Challenge: Write a fibonacci number generator that uses iterate 00:54:48 "iterate"? 00:54:53 const fibo iterate 00:55:06 Bike: 00:55:07 :t iterate 00:55:09 (a -> a) -> a -> [a] 00:56:28 Arc_Koen: back when i looked at ocaml, there were ocamllex and ocamlyacc 00:56:39 you could just have a be a pair and the function be from (a,b) to (b,a+b). 00:57:41 yes, I should take a look at those 00:58:19 -!- nortti has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 00:59:10 it's just that so many esolangs have one-char instructions, or otherwise easily parsed instructions, that I took the habit to patch up dirty "parsers" of my own rather than bothering to look at them properly 00:59:21 there's also a module from the standard library that's all about parsing and stuff 00:59:50 > iterate (round . ((1+sqrt 5)/2*) . fromIntegral) 1 00:59:52 [1,2,3,5,8,13,21,34,55,89,144,233,377,610,987,1597,2584,4181,6765,10946,177... 01:00:06 -!- nortti has joined. 01:06:45 > iterate (\[a,b] -> [b,a+b]) [0,1] 01:06:46 [[0,1],[1,1],[1,2],[2,3],[3,5],[5,8],[8,13],[13,21],[21,34],[34,55],[55,89]... 01:07:05 -!- dedis29 has joined. 01:10:16 yeah it is strange that more esolangs don't have full featured grammar 01:10:29 i guess it follows from the fact that most of them are brainfuck derivatives ;P 01:12:10 It just occurred to me that brainfuck is "context-free" 01:12:18 (in more than one way) 01:12:32 :0 01:12:42 most of them are brainfuck derivatives and the foundation of the current state of esolangs is brainfuck, befunge and false 01:13:17 jafet: what about [ and ]? 01:13:59 so everyone picks up the attitude that esolangs all have single-character commands instead of syntax 01:14:02 BF ::= + | - | , | . | < | > | [ BF ] 01:14:19 | BF BF 01:14:40 BFF 01:15:20 Good 01:15:22 the clear course of action is to start a new trend in languages that can only be parsed with unrestricted grammars 01:15:28 Do a Befunge grammar next 01:15:29 * oerjan swats Jafet for making an ambiguous grammar -----### 01:15:49 -!- dedis29 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:16:04 i don't know grammar, what's an example of a non-context-free one 01:16:28 the grammar describing the language { a^n b^n c^n | n >= 1 } 01:16:41 i.e. { "abc", "aabbcc", "aaabbbccc", ... } 01:16:44 does ambiguous here means that you can't distinguish (BF BF) BF from BF (BF BF)? 01:16:51 yes 01:16:53 Bike: that's called "mainstream languages" 01:17:30 oerjan: brainfuck is associative yo 01:17:37 i guess it's just wadler's law again 01:17:39 i'm pretty sure you only need a cfg for java... 01:17:48 Pierce through the lies, see the higher algebraic structure 01:17:57 people are hung up on concrete syntax so they think the way to make a "brain fucking" language is to have bad syntax rather than strange semantics 01:18:06 Isn't C++ context-sensitive? 01:18:20 c++ is ambiguous, as I recall, with the lexer hack and everything 01:18:25 I was actually thinking of Perl. 01:19:01 parsing perl is undecidable 01:19:05 Well, no one is arguing about comment syntax for brainfuck derivatives yet 01:19:12 Jafet: don't be too sure 01:19:42 since all non-command characters are comments, i think all derivatives are arguments about comment syntax 01:19:55 haha. 01:20:40 Phantom_Hoover: C is context sensitive. 01:21:20 i wish i lived in a world where wikipedia articles were didactically useful :( 01:23:06 @quote autodidact 01:23:07 shapr says: I've tried to teach people autodidactism, but I've realized they have to learn it for themselves. 01:23:31 since when did Jafet actually talk btw 01:23:36 i thought you were just another lurker 01:23:59 I'm a hydralisk 01:24:43 sometimes jafet talks, I'm an eye witness 01:25:34 kmc: Was that added in response to your post? 01:30:10 S ::= a B S c ; B a ::= a B ; B S ::= b S | b or something like that 01:31:00 nah that won't work 01:33:15 -!- Jafet has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 01:33:24 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:35:08 anyway an unrestricted grammar is basically a thue program without IO. 01:35:43 oh hm and a distinction of terminals and non-terminals. 01:37:01 i don't know 01:39:21 oerjan: that would allow cycles 01:46:46 ...wat? 01:47:29 no cycles with the distinction between terminals and non-terminals. 01:48:33 or well, with there having to be a final result. 02:19:09 -!- Jafet has joined. 02:27:24 -!- Jafet1 has joined. 02:28:38 -!- Jafet has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 02:30:23 -!- Jafet1 has changed nick to Jafet. 02:34:05 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 02:53:22 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:53:27 -!- DH____ has joined. 03:04:30 monqy, [S][S][S] 03:15:04 mmm 03:15:05 lead 03:17:31 delicious lead 03:17:42 http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mdoqrbCird1qj67q9o1_500.gif 03:18:06 monqy: i bet you want to fix `taking' 03:18:10 correct? 03:18:17 what's taking 03:18:21 @ty taking 03:18:22 Applicative f => Int -> SimpleLensLike (Control.Lens.Internal.Indexing f) s a -> SimpleLensLike f s a 03:18:29 no 03:18:42 > [1..]^..taking 3 traverse 03:18:45 *Exception: stack overflow 03:18:48 "too strict?!" 03:19:38 -!- Arc_Koen has quit (Quit: Arc_Koen). 03:23:23 wall candy 03:34:34 -!- DH____ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 03:49:00 -!- Jafet has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 04:28:29 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 04:35:48 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 04:38:35 -!- augur has joined. 04:43:30 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:46:09 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 05:14:08 -!- augur_ has joined. 05:14:23 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:24:12 ion: hion 06:29:08 -!- FreeFull has quit (Quit: bye all). 06:41:02 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 06:50:45 -!- augur_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:55:05 sounds like YOU need some Liquid Programr 06:55:37 kmc: Was that the response to your email? 06:56:21 kmc: I bet you want to figure out this taking business. :-( 06:56:32 no a nonsequitor 06:56:35 taking what? 06:56:40 oh 06:56:45 this lens 06:57:06 Yes, it's a lens thing. 07:03:13 shachaf: hachaf 07:03:22 ion: Oh, just in time to figure out `taking' 07:03:52 Oops, did I turn into `ski' ? 07:04:00 `yes' 07:04:11 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: yes': not found 07:09:46 ion: `to which one' 07:09:58 ion: This is like BazaarExercise++ 07:10:28 @karma bazaarexercise 07:10:29 bazaarexercise has a karma of 1 07:11:02 does bazaarexercise really deserve that 1 karma ? 07:11:07 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 07:11:22 monqy: that karma was for bazaarexercise's capitalized brother 07:11:31 not sure how bazaarexercise got it 07:11:41 @karma BAZAAREXERCISE 07:11:42 BAZAAREXERCISE has a karma of 1 07:11:44 i see 07:11:47 HELP 07:11:57 karma inflation: confirmed? 07:16:05 confirmed 07:31:28 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 07:34:04 shachaf: What’s wrong with taking? 07:34:36 ion: Laziness and/or the type. 07:34:51 > [1..] ^.. taking 5 traverse 07:34:54 *Exception: stack overflow 07:35:03 An easy way to fix this would be to use unsafePartsOf 07:35:16 But then it only works for Traversals 07:35:20 We want it to work for Folds. 07:35:23 taking seems to use unsafePartsOf. 07:35:28 Does it? 07:35:36 Are you looking at the git repository? 07:35:44 yes 07:35:46 That's a recent commit. 07:35:53 Previously it was written like dropping 07:36:34 So for that version, it's reasonably lazy, but the problem is the type. 07:36:40 (Also it's a hack.) 07:38:52 Well, the problem is the implementation, not just the type. 07:38:58 But the former reflects the latter. :-) 07:39:00 But the former reflects the latter. :-) 07:39:07 does the former reflect the latter 07:39:48 monqy: no monqy 07:39:53 how could you make such an elementary mistake 07:40:10 elementary mistake of asking a question 07:40:19 "the most elementary of them all" 07:40:49 watson asked too many questions 07:40:54 now he's dead 07:40:57 I feel like lurking here is going to slowly destroy my understanding of the use-mention distinction, and indeed what quotes are for at all 07:40:57 coincidence 07:41:43 you call that lurking? 07:41:59 "surprise: you just unlurked yourself" 07:42:05 "you lurked out" 07:42:17 "you'd be lost for lurks" 07:42:20 aaaaah 07:42:35 i was "lurking", now I am "screaming" in "terror" 07:42:36 -!- nooga has joined. 07:43:05 > fix show 07:43:06 "\"\\\"\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\\\... 07:43:24 "Bike's worst nightmare?" i "think so" 07:44:33 > repeat '"' 07:44:34 "\"\"\"\"\"\"\"\"\"\"\"\"\"\"\"\"\"\"\"\"\"\"\"\"\"\"\"\"\"\"\"\"\"\"\"\"\"... 07:44:36 "no escape" 07:44:43 D: 07:44:57 > text (repeat '"') 07:44:59 > text$repeat'"') 07:45:01 :1:16: 07:45:01 lexical error in string/character literal at end of input 07:45:02 mueval: ExitFailure 1 07:45:03 mueval: Prelude.undefined 07:45:15 oh, well then 07:45:22 :─┐ 07:45:24 D─┘ 07:45:27 > text$replicate (a_billion) '"' 07:45:30 """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""... 07:45:40 even less escape 07:45:54 > repeat '\\' 07:45:55 "\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\... 07:45:56 "maximal escape" 07:46:04 You mean minimal...? 07:46:09 no maximal 07:46:12 Warning: Use camelCase 07:46:13 yes maximal 07:46:15 > show $ repeat '\\' 07:46:15 So... I'm not here? 07:46:17 "\"\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\... 07:46:26 Bike: maximal "ESCAPE SEUQ#NECE" 07:46:40 oh man, my parents warned me about escape seq neces 07:46:51 *seuq neces, apologies 07:47:30 "Bike: four-armed?" 07:47:44 You people are so "conf"using. 07:48:18 fizzie: "you know who else was confusing" 07:48:31 Confucius? 07:48:32 (elliott bird) 07:53:36 -!- augur has joined. 08:02:07 -!- oklopol has joined. 08:37:30 -!- segorev has joined. 09:11:14 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 09:21:09 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: leaving). 09:42:02 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 09:51:47 http://japanesetransliteration.com/ 10:04:34 http://labs.echonest.com/Uploader/index.html 10:06:45 It has a bit of trouble with 5/4. :-) http://labs.echonest.com/Uploader/index.html?trid=TRIOCHX13AFD0DF411 10:08:09 -!- segorev has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 10:10:09 Huh, I no longer have any sound out of this workstation. 10:11:26 Gnome's sound thing shows the right devices in the "Hardware" tab, but the "Output" tab only has a "Dummy output" in the "Choose a device for sound output" list. 10:16:56 -!- segorev has joined. 10:21:43 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 10:26:01 This one doesn’t quite work either :-P Animals as Leaders – CAFO http://labs.echonest.com/Uploader/index.html?trid=TREOUDY13B182DDC60 10:28:18 -!- carado has joined. 11:45:52 -!- nooga has joined. 12:05:53 -!- segorev has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 12:06:44 -!- segorev has joined. 12:09:53 -!- oklofok has joined. 12:33:44 -!- ais523 has joined. 12:37:06 -!- Zuu has joined. 12:38:27 -!- Zuu has left. 12:47:41 -!- ais523_ has joined. 12:47:46 -!- ais523 has quit (Disconnected by services). 12:47:48 -!- ais523_ has changed nick to ais523. 12:50:05 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 12:50:27 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:50:37 -!- ais523 has joined. 12:52:53 -!- ais523_ has joined. 12:52:54 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:53:13 -!- ais523_ has changed nick to ais523. 13:07:50 -!- segorev has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 13:27:59 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:28:13 -!- ais523 has joined. 13:35:36 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:35:52 -!- ais523 has joined. 13:40:57 Fire Tornado http://youtu.be/OL_VUh4gzIk?hd=1&t=1m55s 13:41:23 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:41:33 -!- ais523 has joined. 13:52:14 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 13:54:46 -!- ais523_ has joined. 13:56:06 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 13:56:33 -!- ais523 has joined. 13:57:26 hi, my laptop with a dodgy connection 14:01:25 hi, my fridge with some food inside 14:01:54 I mean, ais523 just joined :) 14:02:23 ais523 refers to my laptop in particular 14:02:30 g 38 14:12:53 -!- boily has joined. 14:14:54 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 14:19:29 -!- ais523 has joined. 14:34:14 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 14:47:14 -!- Arc_Koen has joined. 14:57:01 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 14:57:33 -!- copumpkin has joined. 15:06:09 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 15:16:42 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 15:30:11 -!- ais523 has joined. 15:45:30 -!- impomatic has joined. 15:51:04 -!- atriq has joined. 15:51:40 People assume that time is a strict progression from cause to effect 15:51:51 But actually, from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint 15:52:04 It's more like a bit ball of wibbly wobbly time-wimey stuff 15:52:07 Dammit, Phantom_Hoover 15:52:15 I'm permanently in a mood for Homestuck music now 15:52:41 why did you just quote doctor who... 15:53:20 Arisen Anew 15:53:25 First track of AlterniaBound 15:54:07 Did you see today's update, btw? 15:55:19 loving the look on gamzee's face in the last panel 15:56:11 I love the extra few bullets at the end 15:56:22 -!- FreeFull has joined. 16:00:48 Did anyone else get one of the thousand giveaway 0x10c accounts? 16:01:26 -!- segorev has joined. 16:01:35 0x10c is only 268 16:01:53 It's meant to be 0x10^c 16:02:14 which makes even less sense 16:02:30 Accounts for the future Mojang game 0x10^c 16:02:32 umm, this could be a bit difficult to do in my head 16:02:36 in decimal that's 16^12 16:02:42 which = 2^48 16:02:50 so, umm, quite a lot 16:02:59 Which is set 0x10^c years after 1987 16:03:05 > 16^12 16:03:07 281474976710656 16:03:23 Due to an endiness error on a cryogenesis machine 16:17:17 -!- Arc_Koen has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 16:18:13 -!- elliott has joined. 16:19:20 -!- Arc_Koen has joined. 16:20:46 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:21:13 -!- augur has joined. 16:25:06 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 16:27:48 -!- ogrom has joined. 16:28:02 -!- ogrom has quit (Client Quit). 16:32:03 Uh-oh. 16:32:13 Matchedroad has a vampire. 16:35:21 -!- HackEgo has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:36:10 -!- HackEgo has joined. 16:42:04 Phantom_Hoover, the blood spouting from Gamzee's current wounds is a different colour to the blood from when Nepeta scratched his face 16:42:36 homestuck ruined forever 16:43:41 this is exceedingly frustrating 16:43:59 at least two dorfs have run directly over a dead carpenter's corpse without remarking upon it at all 16:44:02 he's still just 'missing 16:44:04 ' 16:44:16 Maybe they didn't recognize him 16:44:27 "Hey, there's a dead dorf here. Is that Urist!?" 16:44:29 "Nah 16:44:30 " 16:44:36 "Urist had more blood" 16:45:26 the especially annoying part is that as a result of this i can't actually convict anyone for it 16:45:41 "Urist's blood was a different color." 16:45:55 this isn't the homestuck mod! 16:46:28 I still have no idea who the vampire actually /is/, unfortunately. 16:47:24 Who doesn't have a bedroom 16:47:45 hahaha as if i have enough bedrooms for everyone 16:48:09 Aha, it's the strand extractor! 16:48:16 The... Great strand extractor. 16:48:31 I am not killing her, vampire though she may be. 16:48:35 Put him in a locked strand extracting room 16:48:51 With a hole in the ceiling for dumping raw adamantine 16:49:03 And a hole in the floor for dumping the extracted strands 16:49:35 Pretty much the plan. 16:49:53 wouldn't she get annoyed, or starve to death, or something? 16:49:55 I'll probably go for an airlock system for the strands though. 16:50:07 ais523_, vampires don't need to eat or drink. 16:50:18 hmm 16:50:23 what's the downside? 16:50:29 None, really. 16:50:30 They kill people 16:50:32 they try to kill people I think? 16:50:32 elliott: You have 8 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. 16:50:39 For shit and giggles, evidently 16:50:52 She can't improve her skills but strand extraction takes ages to train anyway. 16:51:29 She works really slowly due to an outstanding bug with alcohol dependence but again, strand extraction normally takes so long it'll still be an improvement. 16:51:34 does DF have any equivalent of a conveyor belt? 16:51:41 Minecarts! 16:51:49 and what are strands anyway? 16:52:15 -!- augur has joined. 16:52:37 Adamantine is the top-tier metal in DF, and you refine the raw deposits into strands and then into wafers. 16:53:11 Raw adamantine → strands takes an incredibly long time. 16:53:17 and then make things with the wafers? 16:53:22 Yep. 16:53:27 also, doesn't mining too much adamantine release demons? 16:54:29 Fortunately you can avoid that if you avoid mining the walls of the spires. 16:54:36 ais523_: well there is hell 16:54:41 but you just have to tip-toe around it 16:54:56 ah, you can mine in a pattern that just avoids hell 16:54:59 and, umm, ends up beneath it? 16:55:09 The bit leading to hell is a small shaft in the middle of fixed size, so you can infer where it is. 16:55:33 No, hell is underneath a layer of impenetrable rock at the bottom of the map. 16:55:52 ah right 16:57:08 The adamantine deposits are narrow spires rising out of that, through a sea of magma, and a variable distance into the rock above. 16:57:24 Phantom_Hoover: apparently you can enter hell using a demonic fortress in adventure mode. 16:58:05 Yeah, you can. 16:58:23 I imagine it's a bitch to actually find one though. 16:58:49 Couldn't you make one in fortress mode, then abandon it? 16:59:06 elliott, did you hear about PalaceCrushed? 16:59:48 -!- soundnfury has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 17:03:26 atriq: i suddenly have encyclopedic knowledge of it 17:04:15 -!- ogrom has joined. 17:10:07 elliott: do you have an encyclopedia about it hadny? 17:10:20 you'd have to ask hadny 17:12:20 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:13:08 -!- segorev has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 17:20:27 -!- Bike has joined. 17:24:15 note to self: actually create defences next time 17:27:40 ais523_ is the only named dorf to get injured, fortunately. 17:28:09 why name a dwarf after the underscored version? 17:29:19 har har 17:29:39 -!- augur has joined. 17:31:38 -!- ais523 has quit. 17:31:48 -!- ais523__ has joined. 17:45:21 -!- ais523_ has quit (Quit: Page closed). 17:46:21 -!- ais523__ has quit. 17:46:34 -!- ais523__ has joined. 17:47:08 -!- ais523__ has changed nick to ais523. 17:49:29 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 18:14:30 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 18:23:25 -!- ais523 has quit. 18:28:34 -!- segorev has joined. 18:39:45 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:44:55 -!- augur has joined. 18:51:31 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 18:52:13 -!- carado has joined. 19:06:48 perhaps some day in the far future, computer science will invent a way to build parsers other than hand coded control flow around regular expressions 19:07:20 computer science is a pretty cool guy 19:07:26 Inventing stuff in the far future 19:07:28 Maybe 19:08:40 you mean like context-free grammars and shit? 19:08:54 yeah 19:09:02 let's hope they get invented. 19:09:26 this is my sarcastic way of saying "perhaps in the far future programmers will generally be aware of useful CS shit that has existed for decades" 19:09:33 :D 19:10:40 parsing context-free grammars and their various extensions is like one of the most researched things in cs conferences. it's such an oversolved problem that people start snoring when there's a talk about that stuff. 19:10:58 well at least i do :D 19:11:01 -!- monqy has joined. 19:11:55 (not that i _know_ anything about it) 19:12:51 Man, I can't wait to enter this world properly 19:13:09 this world? you're already in it 19:13:12 screaming, naked, and covered in blood? 19:13:13 The mysterious world of computer science 19:13:45 i hear google tried to use context-free stuff for their translator. but turned out regexps worked way better for automation with such a supermassive data set. 19:13:50 kmc, if I remember, I am going to one day turn up at a computer science conference for a talk that I am presenting, screaming, naked, and covered in blood. 19:14:13 Just because I missed that joke until after I wrote that 19:14:22 a computer scientist told me about this in shame. 19:15:30 yeah, that makes sense 19:15:36 natural language is messy too 19:16:19 that a CFG is not sufficient and/or good for parsing human languages might not be news for people who know stuff about that stuff 19:17:02 news in general might not be news for people who know stuff about the stuff that the news is supposedly news about 19:17:27 it makes sense, but it's a bit sad because "the right solution" (from cs point of view) should be the best one _especially_ for such a large-scale thing. 19:18:23 luckily i don't have to think about these kinds of things, CA aren't useful for anything anyway. 19:19:43 olsner: it's much nicer to make a CFG for a subset of english than make a regexp for a subset of english though. 19:19:46 by hand i mean 19:27:11 -!- sirdancealot has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 19:32:16 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:35:33 -!- augur has joined. 19:36:14 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:36:41 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 19:39:45 Destroy your desk it's useless now 19:40:07 Build yourself a fort to hide 19:40:15 Close your eyes and crawl inside 19:40:22 You're sailing on the pumpkin tide 19:43:36 -!- ais523 has joined. 19:44:43 I need to either stop posting lyrics or find a Homestuck channel that isn't filled with RP'ers 19:47:41 I think esper has a big homestuck channel that doesn't allow RP/typing quirks 19:49:00 -!- oerjan has joined. 19:49:03 RP'ers? 19:49:07 Roleplayers 19:49:10 role players? 19:49:12 okay 19:49:24 Fiora, none on mindfang? 19:49:28 i don't like rps 19:50:06 I don't know anything about mindfang, didn't even know it existed until now 19:51:03 19:50 [esper] -!- Topic for #pesterchum: Welcome gerbils! \\ http://mspa.vulp.in/pesterchum/ has rules and stuff \\ If you want to RP or use troll typing quirks, do it in another channel, not here. \\ Unable to talk? Try using http://esper.net/publicirc.php \\ the friendship sets sail at dawn \\ http://imgur.com/a/mwcBW 19:51:13 -!- oerjan has set topic: E_TOPTOOOLD | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 19:51:18 what are troll typing quirks? 19:51:34 :33 < this appurrs to be the purrfect place for your n33ds 19:51:44 okay. 19:51:50 http://mspaintadventures.wikia.com/wiki/Typing_Quirk 19:52:14 Fiora, mindfang is the server that the Pesterchum client uses internally 19:52:17 ahhh 19:52:30 T3R3Z1 T4LKS L1K3 TH1S and so forth 19:52:35 -!- ogrom has quit (Quit: Left). 19:52:43 is E_TOPTOOOLD ever an actual irc error 19:54:46 I feel like lurking here is going to slowly destroy my understanding of the use-mention distinction, and indeed what quotes are for at all 19:55:01 just do some /// programming and you'll get it right back 19:55:29 Bike: i don't know 19:55:57 Fiora: well we all hate Lolcode here, that's similar 19:57:12 elliott: my promise to fix the /// links back doesn't apply until they actually start working, btw, hth. 19:57:50 oerjan: that's work 19:58:06 yeah, i know it's a tall order 19:59:31 "Itflabtijtslwi – /// with input" why is everything unpronouncable 19:59:53 it gives a pronunciation 20:00:46 -!- Sanky has changed nick to Sanqui. 20:09:06 -!- augur has joined. 20:12:51 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 20:16:24 -!- sirdancealot has joined. 20:22:11 mysteries of dwarf fortress: i have six chains, but i'm only allowed to use two of them for some reason 20:25:50 use more than two and you'll start a chain reaction 20:28:16 hmm, my jail cells definitely aren't designed for criticality safety 20:37:54 Bike: I DON'T SEE WHAT'S UNPRONOUNCABLE ABOUT ITFLABTIJTSLWI 20:38:37 i do the IJ as in DIJKSTRA, btw 20:39:39 -!- segorev has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 20:39:46 I do the ij from Dijsktra as in Itflabtijtslwi, so I wouldn't know 20:39:56 is that some kind of dutch weirdness? 20:40:48 it's just a two-letter "y" look-alike - as in i and j put next to each other looks like a y 20:41:03 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:41:08 > text (repeat '"') 20:41:14 > var (repeat '"') 20:41:26 > 2+2 20:41:28 """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""... 20:41:28 can't find file: L.hs 20:41:34 lambdabot...................... 20:42:09 olsner: do you pronounce "cp" as φ? 20:42:24 Arc_Koen: no, I'm not Dutch 20:43:08 -!- augur has joined. 20:44:06 that's ok, it's a greek letter 20:44:17 http://www.vjn.fi/temporary%20shit/itflabtijtslwi.wma ? 20:44:25 -!- segorev has joined. 20:45:25 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:45:32 the one part I find somewhat difficult is the -lwi at the end 20:46:02 dunno, i thought tslw was a pretty natural cluster 20:50:34 ...and that's from a finn. 20:52:22 -!- augur has joined. 20:55:46 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 21:05:58 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:06:56 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 21:08:32 hey we even have str in some loan words. 21:09:03 str is easier than tslw 21:09:32 English has tchst 21:09:38 it was a joke based on the guess that it's universally considered the easiest three consonant cluster on earth. 21:12:12 It occurs to me that I have no idea where I saved my unfinished Haskell port of MCMap 21:12:52 wait where do we have tchst 21:12:52 also 21:12:55 it's "mcmap" not MCMap 21:13:07 This is something else, obviously 21:13:12 And in "matchstick" 21:15:16 -!- augur has joined. 21:15:20 shattered illusion of the week: ian stewart's lectures aren't great 21:17:37 revelation of the week: mathematicians make terrible caterers 21:17:37 -!- segorev has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:18:48 good revelation? maybe it will save your catering party, one day 21:28:43 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: http://retroprogramming.com). 21:39:57 well _i_ for one wouldn't trust me to do catering. 21:53:46 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:54:09 eurgh 21:54:16 my fps is in the low 40s and falling 21:54:35 maybe this is the price for having dorfs constantly tramping halfway across the map? who knows 21:56:37 -!- augur has joined. 22:02:55 -!- copumpkin has joined. 22:04:42 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:06:19 Aaah there are too many SYNTAX AND KEYWORDS 22:06:30 What does ~(foo) mean in C? 22:07:09 ~ is bitwise not 22:07:30 Thanks 22:09:01 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 22:12:38 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 22:17:14 This would be so much easier if I knew any C 22:17:37 what are you trying to do? 22:21:01 i'm impressed that you managed to avoid learning c 22:26:50 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 22:28:35 uh... oh... 22:28:46 there's a forgotten beast moving towards the entrance to my fortress 22:29:01 -!- atriq has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 22:31:19 Phantom_Hoover: Say goodbye to your little friends. 22:31:32 fortunately it went the other way 22:31:42 i *think* i have it walled off now 22:32:47 i 22:32:52 didn't have it walled off 22:34:22 at least so far it's only set fire to one of the crappy armourers! 22:34:32 -!- boily has quit (Quit: Poulet!). 22:35:57 it turns out the reason code highlighting was broken in our app is that it was trying to highlight everything as matlab 22:36:00 fucking matlab 22:37:21 Was it Objective C or something? 22:37:55 no 22:38:03 it's just that the pygments "guess_lexer" function seems to always guess matlab 22:38:13 in particular if the code block is actually just english text 22:38:35 vim highlights .m files as Matlab 22:38:41 (by "broken" i mean that it would highlight things that weren't meant to be highlighted) 22:38:46 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 22:41:02 It's all down to Gregor now. 22:41:02 -!- augur has joined. 22:43:14 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:43:29 isn't it always. 22:43:45 -!- copumpkin has joined. 22:45:59 teeth and fire are everywhere 22:47:28 also itidus20 burned to death 22:47:36 he was a furnace operator, how ironic 22:47:45 Who is Gregor? 22:49:01 militia commander 22:49:52 you just kind of stood around on the stairs, then went back home and left a single lasher to deal with the beast 22:50:54 he basically whipped it apart piece by piece whilst on fire 22:51:28 Gregor: me 22:51:36 Am I anyone? 22:51:39 yes 22:52:11 you're the manager/bookkeeper/broker 22:52:18 yes, but not anyone *in particular* 22:52:23 oh how could i forget shachaf 22:52:30 what do you want to be shachaf 22:52:39 what 22:52:46 help 22:52:54 Well, if they're all dead now, then you can sort of start over, no? X-D 22:53:06 can i be the norwegian ambassador 22:53:06 no, only iti and some nobody died 22:53:14 shachaf, we don't have one of those 22:53:25 wait 22:53:28 what are my choices 22:54:29 Can you rename dead dorfs? shachaf could be the dead nobody 22:54:58 i don't think so 22:55:34 shachaf, uh, pick any of http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2012:Skill 22:55:47 "i dont play df" 22:55:53 yes 22:55:57 What's the least helpful skill? 22:55:57 that is list of jobs 22:56:00 Can he be the latrine cleaner? 22:56:07 the brown ones are largely useless 22:56:22 animal caretaker is literally useless 22:56:33 Hmm, that looks like a song. 22:56:51 should be set to the tune of "modern major general" 22:58:44 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 23:04:02 shachaf is now burned lasher 23:04:09 what 23:04:12 help 23:04:21 can i be the norwegian ambassador 23:04:36 unfortunately df is not yet able to simulate norway 23:05:02 what ambassador can i be????? 23:05:47 -!- nooga has joined. 23:05:50 Python threads suck, therefore concurrency is a bad concept. MySQL sucks, therefore relational databases are fundamentally wrong. Java sucks, therefore static type systems are worthless. 23:05:51 `addquote unfortunately df is not yet able to simulate norway 23:05:56 866) unfortunately df is not yet able to simulate norway 23:07:43 kmc: I think most people who complain about concurrency complain about how hard it is to reason about. 23:07:53 Python concurrency is, if I remember correctly, unusually easy to reason about. :-) 23:08:16 kmc: depending on what you mean by concurrency i'd agree with the firts 23:08:17 *first 23:08:18 but whenever somebody suggests improving python threading, the response is always like "you shouldn't ever use threads for anything anyway" 23:08:40 right now i have a very specific need which would be easily solved by a competent threading implementation 23:11:25 What's the need? 23:11:39 holy balls http://stackoverflow.com/questions/323972/is-there-any-way-to-kill-a-thread-in-python 23:11:45 calling the CPython API from ctypes LIKE A BOSS 23:11:54 shachaf: need to call a function with a time limit 23:12:00 kmc: what is your need 23:12:01 oh you said that 23:12:03 can't use SIGALRM because it interferes with python's shitty threading 23:12:07 which django is already forcing me to use 23:12:22 isn't this what that multiprocessing thing is for 23:12:41 i think that library is also steaming dog shit 23:12:43 but it might work 23:12:48 kmc: People in #haskell are talking about how to preserve its "niceness culture". You should post that post you wrote about it. 23:14:02 kmc, ... oh, I don't actually need to do your use case, thought I did but I don't 23:14:27 doubt it will play nicely with django 23:14:35 "Functionality within this package requires that the __main__ module be importable by the children." 23:14:47 kmc, I'm sort of abusing Python threading to work around a blocking API, although there's nonblocking versions but those require Tornado or Twisted 23:16:05 hm no fuck this module 23:16:15 i will just os.fork() and send the result back over a pipe and /fuck it/ 23:16:23 you can kill python threads you know 23:16:30 it's just unsafe 23:16:33 like killing threads in almost all languages 23:16:56 there isn't a public or reliable API for doing it either 23:17:44 that applies to most languages though 23:17:55 does it? 23:17:58 maybe the reliable part 23:18:02 for instance you can't reliably kill a pthread 23:18:04 by design 23:18:14 GHC Haskell does have asynchronous exceptions and at least some thought put into making them safe 23:18:18 i realize it's not perfect 23:18:25 AFAIK GHC is the only runtime that offers thread-killing that you are actually allowed to use 23:18:30 ok 23:18:32 not Java? 23:18:41 "See this thread by Sun on why they deprecated Thread.stop(). It goes into detail about why this was a bad method and what should be done to safely stop threads in general. 23:18:41 " 23:18:45 yeah 23:18:46 "The way they recomend is to use a shared variable as a flag which asks the background thread to stop. This variable can then be set by a different object requesting the thread terminate." 23:18:46 sigh 23:18:58 is calling function with a timeout really that unreasonable of a goal? 23:19:01 the problem is that killing a thread is roughly a fundamentally unsafe operation 23:19:10 yes i believed you the first 8 times you told me so 23:19:10 especially, it more or less makes sure you cannot have any sort of guarantees 23:19:20 kmc: that was the first time I said that 23:19:25 maybe you misinterpreted other things I said as meaning that 23:19:35 kmc: anyway calling a pure function with a timeout is reasonable 23:19:36 impure, not so much 23:19:45 what if it changes state? what if it acquires a lock? 23:19:49 the thing i want is conceptually a pure function, although who knows what it uses internally 23:19:52 what if it does blocking IO? 23:19:55 answer: a bunch of poorly written regex parsing 23:19:57 right 23:19:58 GHC gets away with the last one by never doing blocking IO 23:20:00 it could go wrong 23:20:03 but that's a lot of work 23:20:05 but i think i could get away with it in this case 23:20:08 right 23:20:19 so you are doing something unsafe in general 23:20:23 but which works for your usecase 23:20:28 that sounds like a good use of a non-public API :P 23:20:34 there are degrees 23:20:58 unsafe things should still be public and documented when possible 23:21:00 harm reduction, man 23:21:01 ° 23:21:08 I think the thread-killing stuff is actually documented? not sure 23:21:22 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:21:22 well it may be documented as part of the CPython "API" 23:21:28 aka "the parts of the interpreter we decided to not make static" 23:21:39 anyway it is not like it is the only thing about threads which are unsafe and break guarantees 23:21:54 I think concurrent imperative programs are basically a dead end, I don't see any way to make them feasible to reason about at all 23:22:25 i disagree, i think with good tools for managing the diffusion of shared state, it can work 23:22:28 but anyway 23:22:30 i don't even want shared state 23:22:33 just a timeout on a pure function 23:22:45 -!- zzo38 has joined. 23:23:09 well I think modern non-concurrent imperative programs are basically impossible to reason about too 23:48:52 -!- monqy has joined. 23:58:32 -!- raziellight has joined.