00:02:28 oerjan: I think you can make up something similar to the quote operator from muriel 00:03:12 for instance, if you use two characters operators, you can make quotes that are not infinite loop like so: 00:04:13 erk, the line started with / and got eaten by the irc client 00:04:21 fancy 00:04:39 /OP/QuotedO.P//.//Some text that contains OP 00:05:07 unfortunately / and \ are only one-character 00:05:17 indeed they are. 00:05:55 but maybe I can work with made-up two-char operators, with the replace-them-with-/-\ thingy part of the thing that's quined 00:09:10 that might work. but now you need to consider you want to replace them only in _one_ of the quined copies... 00:09:47 oh, right 00:09:53 now I understand what you menat 00:09:55 meant* 00:10:11 weeeeeell I'm working on that 00:10:23 actually I do not think that will be so much of a problem 00:10:40 (but I'm not there yet) 00:11:08 perhaps, but i doubt you end up with a simpler solution. 00:11:09 I'm not experienced with quining so every three seconds my brain resets and I need to re-understand how quining is done again 00:11:51 (and three seconds is not a lot to write a slashes program!!) 00:12:08 you'd think 00:13:00 actually I'm facing ridiculous problems right now 00:13:26 aha! 00:13:53 for instance "if the only difference between 0 and 1 is that 1 is 1, then I need to do something like GGAGG/1/infinite looping of printing one/A" 00:14:16 "but to actually print 1 in the main loop, I need to have the symbol 1 part of the loop code" 00:14:35 "so the outermost substitution will be an infinite loop" 00:14:57 well I guess that's a stupid issue and I can solve it by replacing "A" with "_A_" and the first "1" by "_1_" 00:16:50 well i did neither of those, anyway. 00:17:33 also slashes is a good example of how our categories are not very "accurate" 00:17:49 for instance it's categorized both as "self-modifying" and "string-rewriting" 00:18:05 ...it is. 00:18:10 but those two categories illustrate the same aspect of the language 00:18:25 no they don't, thue is string-rewriting but not self-modifying. 00:18:42 hmmm 00:18:53 because thue does not identify the string with the running program. 00:19:05 oh, ok 00:24:12 here's where I am so far http://sprunge.us/aVci 00:25:04 thing is I want to quote DATA, but not what follows 00:25:25 hmm I think the easier way to do this is to use substitutes for / and \ in DATA 00:25:36 and then 00:25:37 hmmm 00:25:41 * Arc_Koen thinking out loud 00:25:55 thing is when I'm not thinking out loud for someone to hear me 00:26:02 I begin talking to myself 00:26:53 -!- nooodl_ has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 00:27:52 and now, I really understand what you meant 00:27:58 yay 00:28:34 -!- EgoBot has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:29:24 btw, most / and \ need to be escaped because they're part of the /:1:/.../ thing 00:29:31 -!- EgoBot has joined. 00:29:39 but I'll do that last because it will make it unreadable 00:36:20 Arc_Koen: rubber duck debugging! 00:36:32 indeed 00:36:36 I need to buy one of those 00:36:57 though last one of those I saw had batteries inside 00:40:29 programming in slashes is fun though 00:40:40 you're basically making up your own syntax 00:40:46 yeah 00:48:54 how about programming in lisp then 00:49:28 hm i should know better than to say such things 01:01:22 -!- NihilistDandy has quit (Quit: leaving). 01:02:45 -!- jfischoff has quit (Quit: jfischoff). 01:11:40 -!- monqy has joined. 01:25:41 -!- NihilistDandy has joined. 01:27:37 -!- nooga_ has joined. 01:27:37 -!- nooga has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:27:53 would it be ok if I added a section "Hello, World!" to the Pure_BF article, with the program being [.>] and the description "The following program would map a pair (world, tape) to a pair (new_world, tape), with "Hello, World!" outputted in that new_world, if the first 14 cells of the tape contained the characters 'H', 'e', 'l', 'l', 'o', ' ', 'W', 'o', 'r', 'l', d', '!', '\n', '\0'"? 01:28:09 I can't decide whether that would be funny or not. 01:35:26 -!- NihilistDandy has quit (Quit: leaving). 01:42:52 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 01:45:46 anyway, pure bf interpreter is working 01:46:10 even though that doesn't matter cause it directly doesn't do anything 01:52:45 -!- NihilistDandy has joined. 01:56:00 idea, riffing on what Arc_Koen said about languages where you have independent processors interacting: 01:56:18 riff on me baby oh yeah 01:56:27 language where you can't program any processors, only their connections 01:57:52 admittedly this covers a bunch of simple models such as boolean circuits, but i haven't heard of anything that uses fixed, complex units 01:58:05 anyway sleep now 01:58:07 if you had infinite of each type of unit and you could connect arbitrarily that would be basically equivalent to thinks like puredata, wouldn't it 01:58:38 not familiar with that 01:58:40 probably 01:58:58 there are a lot of general concepts which encompass both practical and esoteric languages 01:59:17 * Phantom_Hoover -> sleep 01:59:22 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:22:45 -!- jfischoff has joined. 02:25:29 -!- jfischoff has quit (Client Quit). 02:29:23 monqy, Fiora 02:58:57 -!- NihilistDandy has quit (Quit: leaving). 03:04:01 -!- jfischoff has joined. 03:12:12 -!- RocketJSquirrel has changed nick to Gregor. 03:17:59 I played Dungeons&Dragons game today. They said it was "genius" for me to put a gold coin down while invisible and while in the area between the door and the portcullis. 03:46:08 For what purpose? 03:46:46 To get past! 03:48:33 -!- Arc_Koen has quit (Quit: Gateship. It's a ship. It goes through the gate!). 03:50:53 why did the gold coin help? 03:52:23 So that they can open the portcullis. 03:58:19 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:58:36 -!- pikhq has joined. 04:09:24 why does gold coin let the portcullis open? was there someone on the other side with a coin-operated portcullis machine? 04:09:31 oh 04:09:34 i see 04:09:39 they open it because they want the coin 04:10:53 Yes, they want to pick up the money 04:11:15 They didn't think about how it got there. 04:16:05 I'm not entirely sure why I enjoy http://www.reddit.com/r/westwoods/ but I do 04:32:46 zzo38: that is genius 04:32:55 kmc: O, OK. 04:33:03 and then you can murder them and get your coin back 04:33:10 so it's win win 04:33:18 I don't need the coin back. 04:33:49 Although if I ever do end up to need to kill them, and they did not yet spend it, I will get it back. 04:36:57 what is the purchasing power of one gold coin 04:37:21 not much 04:37:54 about 1 USD 04:39:34 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 04:54:12 i guess that's not worth a murder beef 04:56:43 -!- NihilistDandy has joined. 04:57:56 -!- NihilistDandy has quit (Client Quit). 04:58:21 -!- NihilistDandy has joined. 05:05:49 Even if it is, I do not need it back. 05:05:57 Regardless of what it is worth. 05:34:57 I was also playing Bland Chess against my brother today, and I managed to win, and it was pictorial checkmate too. 05:35:40 pictoral? 05:35:43 (He then said that it should be a double win if you manage to win with pictorial checkmate.) 05:36:02 Sgeo__: "Pictorial checkmate" means a position that would be checkmate in FIDE. 05:36:13 Ah 05:36:32 Although in this case it is checkmate in both Bland Chess and in FIDE chess. 05:39:16 In Bland Chess, the bishop is worth less than a pawn. 05:43:25 bland chess? 05:46:06 It is actually a game he invented many years ago, but without playing the game; he just said it once while waiting at a restaurant. The rules are that no diagonal moves are allowed (although knights still move as normal). 05:46:22 Here is a description: http://www.chessvariants.org/index/msdisplay.php?itemid=MSblandchess 05:47:41 Uh, ... yeah, was about to ask about bishop 05:47:58 Bishops do not move at all in this game. 05:48:07 Is there even any use to them? If you removed the bishops, how often would the game be affected 05:48:19 e.g. how often do the bishops block stuff from occuring 05:48:22 You would have more opportunities to castle. 05:48:52 zzo38: what about berolina pawns in sharp chess? 05:49:07 What's wrong with sharp chess? 05:49:18 Oh, because pawns can't move forward? 05:49:48 yeah 05:49:50 Yes. Well, if it is played with berolina pawns it might work, but I still think it wouldn't work as well. 05:50:36 yeah 05:50:44 every piece except the knight would be color-locked 05:50:58 Yes. 05:51:29 What's a berolina pawn? 05:51:57 Non-capturing diagonal, capture orthogonal. 05:52:32 zzo38: did you compose the problem? 05:52:56 coppro: Yes, although I may have made some mistakes. 05:52:58 I do not believe that you correctly indicated which side of the board is which 05:53:08 -!- nooga_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 05:53:17 oh wait 05:53:18 Actually I did. 05:53:21 the bishop could be promoted 05:53:28 oh 05:53:32 The pawn on f7 is about to promote. 05:53:40 ok 05:53:43 so you got it right 05:53:47 in which case the position is impossible 05:54:02 since the bishop on c8 must be the result of a promotion 05:54:10 You are right, it is impossible; but I don't worry about that. 05:54:11 but that would mean that the pawns on the c-file exchanged places 05:54:22 that is generally considered to be a flaw in a chess problem 05:54:44 I know that. However, I don't care. 05:55:08 ok 05:55:17 I think this game is a stalemate 05:55:25 oh wait 05:55:39 yes, I believe lowercase can force a stalement 05:55:42 *stalemate 05:56:06 Uppercase must promote on his turn 05:57:53 The problem is probably broken; I should delete it. 05:58:11 Since it seems no move will help. 05:58:17 regardless of his choice (a knight is ideal since it can deliver checkmate), 1 ... Ra8+ 2. Kxa8 Rxa6 3. Kb8 Ra8+ 4. Kxa8 1/2-1/2 05:59:29 Yes, although like I said nothing will help. But yes I did see that after I wrote the problem, which is why I say I should remove it. 06:00:12 OK, I removed it. However, for historical reasons it is still available as a HTML comment. 06:00:26 (If you select "edit the contents" it will be visible.) 06:03:14 Some of my other variants are also partially from my brother, although most are my own. 06:03:15 -!- jfischoff has quit (Quit: jfischoff). 06:10:23 "Chess with checkers added" is a variant where me and my brother both invented *simultaneously*. 06:11:27 (As it turned out I resigned that game.) 06:12:24 Does your brother ever come to #esoteric? 06:13:40 No 06:14:24 -!- NihilistDandy has quit (Quit: leaving). 06:16:01 -!- jfischoff has joined. 06:18:16 I also made the shogi variant named after Gebstadter's book. 06:25:15 If you know Xiangqi, what is your opinion of my comment? http://www.chessvariants.org/index/listcomments.php?subjectid=54f10fbe70f3f580 06:29:10 I intend making up symmetric versions of some of the asymmetric chess variants which some people have invented. 06:37:56 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 06:47:24 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 06:51:35 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 06:51:44 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 06:56:20 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:00:25 -!- jfischoff has quit (Quit: jfischoff). 07:02:56 yay: http://www.osnews.com/comments/26560 07:04:13 my favorite linux distro is not dead 07:04:47 "That is not dead which can eternal lie." 07:06:05 :P 07:18:01 they still seem use linux 2.4.... 07:32:38 I use ritz + swank. But the java process uses more and more memory. Does anyone know why? 07:32:42 the memory allocation strategy of java can be described in 3 words. 07:32:42 nom nom nom. 07:37:27 "IonMonkey is a new JIT for SpiderMonkey --" how many monkeys have they got at Mozilla Labs? Sometimes it seems every version has a new monkey. 07:39:16 spidermonkey, jägermonkey, tracemonkey and ionsmonkey are the ones I can remember 07:39:23 *ionsmonkey 07:39:31 *ionmonkey 07:41:04 Mozilla is a zoo. They also have foxes and birds 07:41:38 SeaMonkey 07:43:02 don't forget giant dinosauruses 07:43:12 at least that is what it looks like 07:43:21 ..idgi 07:43:25 Which one's that 07:43:41 mozilla 07:44:07 derp. 07:44:23 https://addons.mozilla.org/en-us/firefox/addon/firesomething/ I wish this addon was still updated 07:44:41 ahahah 07:44:50 Mozilla Labs really needs to acquire the Blender Foundation. 07:47:50 ... 07:48:49 Remember this easter gegg? http://256.com/gray/docs/netscape/mozilla/images.html 07:50:05 No :( 07:50:51 When I was a kid, my dad did not want me to use Netscape, because apparently he heard something about it being insecure 07:51:58 That particular one was I think only in the Unix version. 08:03:15 -!- FreeFull has quit. 08:05:47 -!- jix_ has quit (Quit: leaving). 08:05:57 -!- jix has joined. 08:13:07 Why does Mozilla need to acquire Blender Foundation? 08:13:41 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 08:32:06 zzo38, Blender includes among its "primitives" a monkey's head. 08:32:43 http://feeblemind.org/blog/images/atelier-improbable/smoothing/suzanne-wire-solid-subsurf2.png 08:33:11 That doesn't make a lot of sense to me to include such things among its "primitives". It should be stored in a separate library, perhaps. 08:34:08 I think it's a sort of easter egg. I'm not sure. 08:34:41 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 08:35:09 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: leaving). 08:35:32 http://www.luxrender.net/forum/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=1162 08:35:40 http://www.luxrender.net/forum/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=14637 08:37:06 http://www.luxrender.net/forum/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=12132 08:55:54 It's not entirely useless to have a "primitive" that's somewhat complex, for the purposes of e.g. the material previewer, or for quick tests. 08:56:07 Blender has the monkey, OpenGL has the teapot. 09:07:53 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 09:08:40 Well, I agree they should have such things, monkey, teapot, etc, but should be on a separate file (although included file). 09:12:00 And probably should have more than just one available, perhaps three or four different shapes which you can use. 09:12:10 But not too much. 09:16:29 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 09:18:24 -!- lufu has joined. 09:21:18 -!- nooga has joined. 09:27:50 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 09:36:46 Help instead of criticising my teammates like I'm supposed to be doing I'm reading Reddit 09:37:11 is this a university thing 09:37:52 Famicompo Mini vol.9 result is now available. Someone wrote about my file "lol @ stealth mario cover" yes they are correct, I wondered if anyone would notice. 09:38:23 Phantom_Hoover, by criticise I mean peer evaluations 09:41:21 just be like 'your work is terrible you have made poor life choices' 09:41:28 make loads of freinds 09:43:40 I and the Project Manager of our group are the only ones actually doing work. 09:44:11 Although I can't help wonder if I'm biased in that assessment because he was a classmate in a previous semester 09:44:15 well you're not, you're reading reddit 09:44:29 so what's the project 09:44:43 "computer modelling of manure shovels"? 09:45:07 "population dynamics of tractors"? 09:45:08 It's a website intended for use on phones, does map stuff 09:45:17 Oh, I get the joke. I am a bit slow today. 09:45:17 ah 09:46:06 Sometimes I think that my thinking is a bit "glacial". Powerful, but incredibly SLOW. 09:46:30 Although I guess I don't have an objective assessment of how good/bad my thinking is 09:46:51 careful now, you've veering into itidus territory here 09:47:17 eep 09:47:43 next thing you know you'll be making instant coffee 09:49:01 -!- lufu has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:49:19 * Sgeo__ wtfs a bit at LibreOffice 09:52:23 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 09:53:09 -!- lufu has joined. 09:56:30 Going to do evaluations tomorrow at school when I have access to MS Word 10:00:06 -!- lufu has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:04:24 -!- lufu has joined. 10:07:25 `welcome lufu 10:07:36 lufu: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 10:09:40 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 10:12:07 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:15:16 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 10:20:53 Phantom_Hoover, Fiora 10:23:14 -!- lufu has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:36:07 what about Fiora 10:41:28 " Sometimes I think that my thinking is a bit "glacial". Powerful, but incredibly SLOW." i used to think that, still do except to "powerful" part. 10:41:38 *the 10:45:12 oklofok you can't hide from your insecurities by constantly announcing them loudly 10:45:20 yes i can 10:51:45 -!- atriq has joined. 10:53:01 atriq, there was an update 10:54:16 I saw! 10:54:22 And my phone has gone insane 10:56:09 Looking forward to Act6 Act 5 11:00:47 did it go berserk, melancholy or stark raving mad 11:01:29 Melancholy 11:03:26 oh well 11:03:30 could've been worse 11:18:33 True 11:18:44 But that phone was a legendary brewer 11:29:07 ok 11:29:15 time for operation regicide II 11:32:30 er, or it would be if i hadn't been an idiot and hooked the levers up wrong 11:36:48 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 11:39:27 The 0x10c ARG is getting creepy 11:39:31 As all ARGs do 11:53:32 oh god, notch doing an ARG 11:54:24 Themed around time and space travel, apparently 11:54:39 Also, thanks to it and me being quick, I have an 0x10c account 12:00:05 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 12:00:37 -!- copumpkin has joined. 12:11:52 -!- Arc_Koen has joined. 12:14:21 >.< 12:15:00 I miss all the 0x10c ARGs it seems 12:36:06 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 12:51:36 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 12:53:32 -!- atriq has quit (Quit: Leaving). 13:32:24 "But wait—if it only takes a couple seconds to pick up a penny, but it pays back 12 seconds, then you could game the system by repeatedly dropping a penny and picking it back up ..." 13:32:58 I felt I had to share, rather than laugh on my own behind my computer 13:35:32 wat 13:37:53 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 13:38:08 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 13:39:56 -!- impomatic has joined. 13:40:05 Phantom_Hoover: xkcd's what-if talking about picking up pennies 13:42:26 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 13:42:43 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:43:56 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 13:46:54 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 14:11:59 -!- boily has joined. 14:39:06 -!- donmarquis has joined. 14:40:05 -!- elliott has joined. 14:40:05 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:40:23 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 14:40:24 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:43:32 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: http://corewar.co.uk). 14:46:46 -!- elliott has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:47:38 -!- elliott has joined. 14:55:48 kmc: Can I use mosh as a sort of faux-dtach somehow? As in, use its ability to handle dropping connections for dropping my connection for a billion hours and then reconnecting to the same mosh-server. 15:27:29 -!- donmarquis has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:37:05 i don't really know about dtach 15:37:35 you can't launch a new mosh-client and attach it to the old mosh-server 15:38:30 That's a shame. 15:38:37 Couldn't mosh-client save its state to disk or something? 15:42:05 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 15:43:16 yes but there would be hell of security consequences 15:43:29 for example you can't ever re-use a cryptographic nonce 15:43:34 loading an old state file would be fatal 15:44:42 anyway i leave a mosh session open from each of my machines and then attach to screen within whichever one i'm currently using 15:45:10 i would use screen multi-attach but it doesn't handle different terminal sizes very well (nor is it clear that there even exists a solution there) 15:45:11 kmc: What's the difference between mosh-client getting disconnected for 8 hours and then reconnecting, and mosh-client saving its state, not being run for 8 hours, and then loading that state? 15:46:03 the difference is that it's much easier for a program to load a stale file from disk than for a program in memory to somehow jump back in time and use an old value of some variable 15:46:25 there is a counter that you must increment on every packet sent, for the security of the block cipher mode 15:46:37 if you use the same value more than once with the same key, you lose 15:47:01 Oh, the problem is that you could resume it twice? 15:47:11 yeah 15:47:22 or just end up with two state files somehow and pick the wrong one 15:47:36 we could build safeguards against this, but that's more stuff that we can screw up 15:47:45 first rule of mosh is to keep the security story very simple 15:47:47 kmc: I heard keithw wanted to do public key things with a dedicated moshd. 15:47:57 yeah... i don't think he really wants to 15:48:09 that would be a serious departure from the existing design principles, anyway 15:54:32 -!- atriq has joined. 16:14:31 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 16:14:46 -!- jfischoff has joined. 16:22:47 kmc: Why does mosh not do prediction by default? 16:22:48 Or does it. I forget. 16:24:20 It does. 16:24:40 it does, as long as your lag exceeds a certain amount 16:25:14 with low latency, the prediction is basically just visual glitching and isn't actually useful 16:25:36 but you can enable that anyway with --predict=always 16:26:15 and if you want really aggressive prediction you can use --predict=experimental 16:26:51 elliott, did you start the fortress yet? 16:26:59 atriq: No. Should I? 16:27:15 that disables the usual heuristic where mosh will only display predictions if a prediction has been confirmed correct since the last newline or other control character 16:27:15 kmc: My lag is just enough that typing sometimes feels a little wonky. :( 16:27:24 Yes 16:27:24 (It's still really tiny though.) 16:27:26 so --predict=experimental will e.g. predictively echo your password 16:27:33 Ew. 16:27:44 also will predictively echo vim commands into your document 16:27:48 Ew. 16:28:42 (How is that a good thing?) 16:28:51 I don’t think anyone said it’s a good thing. 16:29:32 It's only a bad thing if you're ashamed of your password. 16:29:39 Well, someone must. 16:29:42 * shachaf has nothing to hide. 16:29:44 Since it is called "experimental". 16:35:52 -!- nooodl_ has joined. 16:41:29 well plenty of people asked for this feature 16:41:58 if your connection is really laggy, waiting for that first echo confirmation is annoying 16:42:03 it does limit the usefulness of prediction 16:42:49 and in many use cases the echoing of stuff that you don't really want echoed is not a big deal 16:43:11 even passwords 16:43:26 most of the time you are not going to have someone looking over your shoulder at momentarily visible characters in your password 16:43:35 you can always type slowly :) 16:43:52 mobile phones tend to echo the last character of the password 16:46:45 If the connection is really laggy, they'll be more than momentarily visible. 16:47:16 yeah 16:47:23 however maybe you only rarely type a password over mosh anyway 16:47:42 the set of circumstances where your connection is laggy might have very small overlap with the set of circumstances where you need to type your password 16:48:06 i mean obviously you should never type your password on a remote host, you should use kerberos delegation shit 16:48:15 :D 16:50:00 I wish passwords didn't exist. 16:50:18 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:50:42 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 16:50:49 -!- augur has joined. 16:55:26 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 17:04:59 kmc: Whoa, I must be lagging a lot, stuff is starting to predict! 17:05:40 elliott: Are you using irssi? 17:05:45 Are you playing the game yet? 17:05:59 (Well, not much of a game.) 17:06:01 shachaf: I'm using WeeChat right now. 17:06:07 I might switch to irssi because WeeChat has some annoying settings and stuff. 17:06:11 It'd probably work there too. 17:06:47 What's "the game"? 17:06:52 You'll find out. 17:07:20 You could... tell me. 17:10:53 kmc: What's the game? 17:14:13 oh i know 17:14:14 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 17:14:14 i think 17:14:19 Hello 17:14:27 but i might want to not say 17:14:29 for science 17:14:38 kmc: OK but how about you say. 17:14:45 hm 17:14:51 i do hate being the jerk with a secret 17:14:58 i will tell you in one hour if you do not guess by then 17:15:22 Does it help if I used WeeChat yesterday, too, and hence have been using both it and mosh in combination for more than an hour already? (Uh, I assume it's related to that.) 17:15:29 Wow, does mosh predict text scrolling or something? 17:15:43 It's getting it all wrong when my WeeChat input line gets too long and I page back through it. 17:16:01 yeah local scrolling doesn't work with mosh 17:16:14 but the scrolling built into the remote program should work fine 17:16:30 It seems to predict the cursor movement. 17:16:31 shachaf: wait, can you even play the game in weechat? 17:16:43 it should only predict left-right cursor movement 17:16:51 Right. 17:16:56 and only if your characters have been echoed since the last control code 17:16:58 But it predicts it wrongly, because my line scrolls when I move it. 17:17:02 ah 17:17:15 WeeChat seems to scroll left before you reach the left edge. 17:18:22 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 17:18:27 kmc: (What's the game?) 17:19:58 kmc: Works for me in WeeChat. 17:20:00 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 17:20:09 Why wouldn't it? 17:20:26 does the game involve mosh 17:20:45 (Do you mean that the prompt is empty? It isn't once you connect to a server.) 17:21:34 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 17:23:11 Is the game trying to get mosh to predict that the prompt will get backspaced or something?? 17:23:41 yes 17:23:47 it's pretty easy 17:23:53 now shachaf and I backspace our prompts all the time 17:24:01 it's the cool new move that's sweeping the nation 17:24:07 I guess I gave it away. 17:24:12 * shachaf , enemy of science 17:24:17 -!- augur has joined. 17:24:18 My server isn't laggy enough for that. 17:24:34 You can usually manage it if you do it right. 17:24:47 Typing a lot of "a" and holding down backspace doesn't work. 17:24:48 Type several characters and then hold down backspace. Or something. 17:24:51 Hmm. 17:25:10 I have an 18-19 ms ping to my server. 17:25:28 Pfooey. 17:25:31 (It's in London.) 17:26:57 -!- FreeFull has joined. 17:27:20 What is doing in London. 17:27:24 Nobody lives in London 17:33:01 kmc: I can't tell whether these random underlines in single letters in the middle of words when I switch channels are mosh's or urxvt's vault. 17:33:41 elliott: Try it in SSH and/or xterm. 17:33:46 (But not both.) 17:34:06 shachaf: I'm too lazy. 17:48:01 elliott have you started that fort 17:48:16 I will today!! 17:56:53 also i just discovered that dfhack also incorporates a bunch of bugfixes and optimisations! 17:58:17 But I like bugs and slow things. 18:06:54 you you like things that are both 18:06:56 like snails 18:07:04 snails aren't bugs silly 18:07:23 everything smaller than a fist which is gross is a bug 18:08:07 but snails are adorable :( 18:08:28 Also delicious. 18:08:52 like deer! 18:09:44 And rabbit. 18:14:25 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 18:21:03 Just realised... 18:21:12 I'm going to be indirectly cosplaying Lara Croft 18:21:36 elliott: are you using urxvt's linkification plugin? 18:22:26 kmc: Right. 18:22:36 when mosh gets the new terminal state after window switching, it doesn't repaint the characters that haven't changed 18:22:53 and rxvt doesn't notice that the link as a whole has disappeared 18:23:15 Oh. 18:23:18 That sucks. 18:23:24 Can I fix that? 18:23:25 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Quit: Leaving). 18:23:38 dunno 18:31:00 -!- Taneb has joined. 18:31:15 -!- atriq has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 18:33:13 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 18:43:00 -!- Taneb has changed nick to atriq. 18:44:14 shachaf: no reply from the django-confirmation author re: sha1(str(os.urandom(12)) + str(email_address)).hexdigest() 18:44:48 can't decide whether to fix it to be purely random 18:45:40 on the one hand, having cargo cult code in a security-critical module is really worrying 18:45:46 on the other hand it might be best to leave well enough alone 18:46:33 i at least bumped that 12 to 20 18:58:01 Aaaargh 18:58:11 "woah" only has one h 18:58:20 I don't care where it is, as long as there's just one 18:58:28 "whoah" is stupid 18:58:55 hwoa 19:00:15 See, ion understands 19:01:14 i like whoah 19:01:18 you are upsetting me atriq :( 19:01:38 hwhohah 19:02:25 i used to 19:08:21 hatriq 19:09:42 hatriq = hat trick 19:10:15 That was the plan all along! 19:10:17 whhhhoahhhh 19:11:27 I have in my hands the power to DESTROY GOOGLE SEARCH RESULTS 19:11:36 Possibly 19:13:19 Woha 19:15:18 atriq: how 19:15:59 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 19:21:20 ion: Isn't it great when people are wrong in #haskell. :( 19:26:08 By the powers granted to me by the NATION OF AUSTRALIA 19:27:46 -!- oerjan has joined. 19:29:38 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 19:30:46 http://mashable.com/2012/11/27/google-libel-australia/ 19:35:11 a site named mashable could only publish fake, mashed-up news, right? 19:40:10 that and potatoes 19:40:41 and buttons 19:52:49 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 19:53:02 "hara kiri - self immolation" 19:53:09 kmc: I did the game! 19:54:01 olsner: that should be a game 19:55:56 olsner: *cough* 19:58:20 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 20:02:56 kmc: Can you fix mosh's prediction algorithm so I can stop playing the game? 20:03:23 -!- Bike has joined. 20:03:30 It could learn from the fact that it always predicts the prompt would disappear but it never does. 20:04:29 -!- sebbu has joined. 20:05:37 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 20:05:37 -!- sebbu has joined. 20:15:41 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 20:22:36 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 20:23:57 @tell Arc_Koen "Note that functions . and , actually modify their input world, rather than a copy." <-- that's evil! also not pure. 20:23:57 Consider it noted. 20:24:14 kmc: maybe I will start doing "mosh solidity ssh ...' 20:24:16 *" 20:24:18 because my connection is so unreliable 20:27:49 matrix of? 20:28:49 ion: the server that hosts esolangs.org is named after that, yes 20:29:06 nice 20:29:34 Speaking of things like that, I have a comfortable-for-interactivity ping of 212 ms to selene, that prgmr thing. 20:29:42 Admittedly it's a whole 'nother continent. 20:30:01 fizzie: You have a weird definition of "comfortable". 20:30:07 * elliott can't stand when the pings get above 20 ms. 20:30:54 But still. 212 ms * c is like 63556 kilometres. It's not *that* far. 20:31:09 That’s almost a round number. 20:31:21 ion: Yes, it must be MEANINGFUL of something. 20:31:58 fizzie: I don't like how slow light is. 20:32:02 it's lufgninaem, actually. 20:32:08 or wait 20:32:14 Like, c * the furthest distance you can go on the Earth = a pretty long time!! 20:32:15 It's 140 µs to the place where this irssi is, that's more acceptable. 20:32:15 > 2^16 20:32:17 65536 20:32:20 yep 20:32:22 * Fiora likes Grace Hopper's nanosecond measurement 20:32:35 a foot is about one light-nanosecond. 20:32:40 I like this song name. “Baby’s First Coffin” 20:32:53 so like each time my cpu ticks light moves a couple inches 20:32:57 oerjan: For some reason I parsed it as 6-swap(55,3)-6 instead of reverse(65536). Curious. 20:33:34 "c * the furthest distance you can go on the Earth" is a time? 20:33:36 oerjan: do you have any opinion on the mess that is http://esolangs.org/wiki/Computing_crystal 20:33:46 oklopol: :D 20:33:48 oklopol: let's go with... yes 20:33:54 interesting! 20:34:48 elliott: well i fixed the plural automata thing 20:34:55 * oerjan spots another error 20:34:57 Discounting shortcuts, "(circumference of earth/2) / c" says 66.8 milliseconds in W|A. 20:35:17 oerjan: well i am thinking of more fundamental messes here. 20:35:36 fizzie: right. so your worst-case round trip is 133.6 ms 20:35:38 that's awful slow!! 20:36:36 elliott: It drops to about 85 ms if you take the shortcut, but that's nothing to write home about either. 20:36:39 elliott: four wrong apostrophes is a fundamental mess! also is inputted an acceptable participle form? 20:37:17 Also, "(diameter of earth) / c" interpreted c as the root mean square charge radius of a charm quark, and output "insufficient data available". 20:37:29 That's really the best interpretation. 20:37:41 ok that's apparently allowed. 20:38:27 fizzie: 85 ms is still an awful long time. :( 20:38:29 http://www.forbes.com/sites/brucedorminey/2012/04/30/neutrinos-to-give-high-frequency-traders-the-millisecond-edge/ sending data through the earth's core reminds me of this 20:40:13 fizzie: "diameter of earth / speed of light"? 20:40:27 fizzie: can you stop working on useless speech recognition and go find hyperspace 20:40:30 nooodl_: Sure, that works. But it interpreted "c" as speed of light when it was circumference. 20:40:57 Hyperspace for the pings. 20:40:57 W|A works in mysterious ways 20:41:05 Forget about stars, we're more interested in our pings. 20:41:18 Fiora: i suspect there will be a lot of bandwidth contention, given you cannot aim neutrinos very well and you need to send an enormous amount to catch one 20:42:33 Yeah, it sounds really really hard 20:42:50 you'd need a crazy huge neutrino detector and a massive neutrino beam 20:43:17 how do you even aim neutrinos? I guess you could generate them with a linear accelerator pointed down, and pulse the electromagnets to set 0s or 1s 20:43:19 wait... perhaps this explains why no aliens do interstellar travel, after inventing a cyberspace they cannot stand high pings back home! 20:43:26 but that'd be so few neutrinos 20:43:30 you'd really want, like, a nuclear reactor, right? 20:43:32 nicely solves the fermi paradox 20:43:33 but you really can't aim that 20:45:02 oerjan: Even ping times to the moon would become unsettling. 20:45:06 Fiora: i assume the recent lhc experiments aimed at least somewhat toward the italian detector 20:45:08 And forget about Mars! 20:45:18 Yeah, but like, didn't they receive neutrinos for /days/ just to get a few? 20:45:34 oerjan: a cyberspace 20:45:34 Fiora: probably 20:45:48 Fiora: possibly some interesting crypto concerns there 20:45:59 someone else could intercept your neutrinos? 20:46:17 it sounds hard, since they'd need an equally insanely huge detector 20:46:19 elliott: that _was_ the term scifi used before internet became widespread, wasn't it? 20:46:36 I thought you meant hyperspace 20:47:10 It also turns out if you use a regular optical fiber, those have such sluggish light it's going to be like 200 ms for the full round-trip around the planet. 20:47:39 would optical fibers work with a vaccuum on the inside? 20:48:20 Fiora: I think generally you'd need to have the material with the higher refractive index on the inside. But I'm certainly no expert. 20:48:40 oh.... for total internal reflection... 20:48:44 If you got really reflective inner surface of the cladding, then, sure. 20:49:16 it sounds hard, since they'd need an equally insanely huge detector <-- yes but it could be hidden many kilometers away unless you can aim much better than now 20:49:31 "If the refractive index is lower on the other side of the boundary" ... hmm 20:49:58 Then again, single-mode fiber is... kinda weird. 20:50:04 -!- Gresia96 has joined. 20:50:53 -!- Gresia96 has quit (Client Quit). 20:50:55 I guess you could encrypt your neutrino communications? using like public key crypto or something 20:51:13 or a stream cipher 20:52:14 Could you do that thingy where you synchronize two spinny things? 20:52:14 Hey, if I ask W|A about "distance from X to Y", the "direct travel times" table, in addition to "aircraft" and "sound", has "light in fiber" and "light in vacuum". 20:52:22 (Physics is NOT my strong point) 20:52:53 So it's only 41 ms from here to San Jose (where the prgmr box is, I think); or 82 ms for the round-trip. Why am I getting two hundred? I want my money back. 20:52:55 entanglement? 20:53:15 Possibly 20:53:41 atriq: _any_ even slightly decent article about that will mention that you cannot use it to send information. many bad ones don't, however. 20:53:53 Yeah, you can't send information with entanglement 20:54:33 unfortunately~ 20:54:43 Man, that sucks 20:54:56 "unfortunately" you say, "but I like casuality" say I 20:55:07 Could you do that thingy where you completely disregard all the laws of physics? 20:55:12 casual casualties 20:55:19 causality 20:55:21 spelling is hard. 20:55:27 atriq: yes. yes you could. 20:55:31 but causality is /laaame/ 20:55:39 * oerjan is channeling phineas & ferb there. 20:55:39 oerjan: Do that thing. 20:55:56 plus skaia will just fix up the timeline right 20:57:29 ion: help 20:57:36 Fiora, hopefully! 20:57:45 Which reminds me, I need to get my Jake cosplay sorted 20:57:48 -!- Gresia96 has joined. 20:57:53 !list 20:58:01 `welcome Gresia96 20:58:10 atriq: oh but you _can_ use entanglement for agreeing on encryption keys, supposedly. but you need to send the actual encrypted data normally. 20:58:11 Gresia96: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 20:58:11 (this is not a file-sharing channel) 20:58:13 * Fiora would do either Jade or Nepeta probably 20:58:22 (you want a different network) 20:58:45 Fiora, sweet 20:59:17 If you were anywhere near here (are you anywhere near here?), you could come to meets some of my friends organize 20:59:26 elliott: what would !list do on another network? 20:59:28 !help 20:59:29 ​help: General commands: !help, !info, !bf_txtgen. See also !help languages, !help userinterps. You can get help on some commands by typing !help . 20:59:42 oerjan: AIUI DCC bots use it to list files and stuff. 20:59:48 freenode is not very into the whole warez thing. 20:59:50 ok 21:00:09 elliott: could we put a fake one in EgoBot? :P 21:00:21 JUST IN CASE 21:00:23 xdcc list 21:00:27 WHY NO WORK 21:00:43 where are my pirated brainfuck compilers 21:00:54 or are they supposed to answer with dcc always. 21:01:03 brainfuck_WITH_CRACK.zip 21:01:07 They answer with notice. 21:01:14 Usually it's more like “services list” 21:01:19 ok 21:01:25 Where those “services” are usually “gimme some filezzzzz” 21:01:25 They do answer to !list with privmsg sometimes. 21:01:35 io sono italiana..e non ho ancora capito come si usa questo programma.. 21:01:53 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Xdccpacks.gif <- that's what it looks like when it's xdcc. 21:02:01 So nostalggik. 21:02:10 I'm sure that kind of stuff is still going on somewhere, though. 21:02:21 rizon has a lot of xdcc. 21:02:22 Gresia96: Non ci sono file. Questo è un canale di discussione. 21:02:28 guys am i using google translate right 21:02:52 elliott: looks fine to me 21:03:01 sisi ho capito..però una mia amica mi hha speigato che con questo programma si possono scaricare dei film 21:03:08 elliott: There'sa onlya onea waya to translateo correcti. 21:03:32 * oerjan swattsa lo Gregor -----### 21:04:08 È possibile scaricare i filmati su IRC, ma solo in alcuni canali. Non ci sono film in questo canale, o in rete "Freenode" questo canale è acceso. 21:04:13 italian is hard 21:04:41 ah ok grazie mille! 21:05:07 elliott: hah i understood most of it without google >:) 21:05:26 oerjan: I think it was about documentary films of famous canals. 21:05:33 fizzie: O KAY 21:08:14 yeah it's a fun fact that light travels much slower in fiber than in air 21:08:22 -!- Gresia96 has quit. 21:08:22 atriq: I probably wouldn't go to a meetup or anything, but it's just like something I think about while donating money to hussie's shirt fund 21:08:28 this is why some high frequency finance firms are starting to use microwave links 21:08:40 we wanted to float a shiny blimp over new jersey and bounce lasers off of it 21:08:42 kmc: is there a reason you can't make faster fiber? like with lower-index materials 21:08:46 Fiora, fair enough 21:08:50 i don't know 21:08:56 hm by the "italiana" Gresia96 supposedly was a girl. in case anyone cares. 21:09:00 the index has to be high enough to support total internal reflection 21:09:02 kmc: Come on, fix the game. :( 21:09:05 I was looking around and couldn't find any reasons why... but it must be a good reason... 21:09:36 oerjan: you mean all we had to do to improve this channel's ridiculous gender imbalance was pirate some movies?! 21:09:39 i think there is probably a relationship between IoR and minimum bend radius 21:09:41 but don't know 21:09:43 maybe materials science just isn't fancy enough yet? 21:09:43 elliott: shocking 21:09:56 elliott: well that and learn italian 21:10:06 i will ask my friend who knows optics and stuff 21:10:11 oerjan: google translate solves all 21:10:24 Hey, whatever happened to tiffany? 21:11:21 I've always wanted to use that Twibright Ronja for something, but it'd kind of need places to point it at. 21:11:38 atriq: did she make a brainfuck derivative 21:11:40 if so I have a suspect 21:11:56 Is it a suspect with a tumblr? 21:12:24 it's a suspect with a ghostly vacuum 21:12:39 i don't know if he has a tumblr 21:13:06 http://phantom-hoover.tumblr.com/ 21:13:24 fancy 21:13:44 (it's slightly entirely written by me) 21:14:20 oh. 21:14:55 * oerjan somehow hasn't visited tumblr enough to know it was a blog site 21:15:06 oerjan: yes, but it would be painfully useless if it only generated a copy of the input and output streams 21:15:06 Arc_Koen: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 21:16:02 Ocaml sounds like a bunch of C++ programmers trying to "fix" haskel 21:16:02 and also I'd have to find a way to copy a stream and I haven't 21:16:03 l 21:16:25 i thought ocaml was older than haskell. 21:16:40 It may well be 21:16:40 I'd link mine but I think it's 1% programming and 95% homestuck, magical girls, and anime 21:16:49 Message me 21:16:54 That is exactly what I need to follow 21:17:09 What's the 4%? 21:17:13 atriq: we shall remember that insult 21:17:14 Arc_Koen: taking copies of lazy lists works perfectly in haskell *cough* 21:17:19 science and tumblr memes probably? 21:17:39 hm, haskell 1.0 was '90, ocaml '96. eh 21:17:53 oerjan: yes, but that basically means you can't have anything inputted from stdin or outputted to stdout 21:18:10 I mean, I'd need to be able to clone the whole computer for that 21:18:11 or something 21:18:13 Bike: ocaml is based on caml, which may be older, and which was itself an ml variant... 21:18:33 yeah, but with the c++ comment i assumed atriq meant the object stuff. somehow 21:18:44 caml was invented primarily for writing coq 21:18:51 they decided that sticking to Standard ML would be too limiting 21:19:23 there's a document about the history of ocaml but i can't be arsed to find it 21:19:53 it is Arc_Koen's national duty to do so 21:20:22 sure, let me get my bike and I'll ask the guys at the university 21:20:25 anyway atriq is wrong, there isn't much C++ influence in ocaml and it's certainly not an attempt to 'fix' Haskell 21:20:40 kmc, I was joking 21:20:47 YOU WERE?? 21:20:52 if anything it's the other way, ocaml sticks much closer to this old school of algebraic static typed languages, haskell is crazy and experimental 21:21:03 Just from what I've heard, OCaml seems to have the worst parts of Haskell and the worst parts of C++ 21:21:06 also nobody actually uses the OOP support in ocaml 21:21:10 well you are wrong 21:21:13 Arc_Koen: haskell has lazy I/O specifically for allowing lazy lists to come from/go to ordinary streams 21:21:26 i can name lots of the worst parts of haskell that didn't make it to ocaml ;P 21:21:31 and of C++ 21:21:36 I'm fairly sure I'm wrong, having never learnt OCaml or C++ 21:21:43 oerjan: Speaking of girls, does the channel have any confirmed regular ones? I was wondering about this few years back, couldn't think of any, and it's kind of strange that the gender distribution is more skewed than most things I can think of. 21:21:47 glad you felt a need to weigh in on the issue 21:21:49 what exactly is a lazy list btw? the type "list" in ocaml corresponds to lifo only 21:21:54 haha "confirmed girls" 21:22:14 being a woman on the internet is like being gay irl, people assume by default that you aren't and you have to "come out" 21:22:21 have to be wary of those genderflipping types, donchaknow 21:22:24 it's pretty sad 21:22:56 Arc_Koen: it's a list where you only evaluate as much of it as you actually use 21:23:11 It'd be funny if the channel turned out to have roughly the same gender ratio as the world 21:23:27 > [1..] -- this list is infinite, but gets cut off and what's not used is never evaluated 21:23:27 kmc: Yeah, I suspect there's more people that are gay or bi than there are women here. 21:23:28 [1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24,25,26,27,28... 21:23:33 yeah 21:23:35 Which is... Weird. 21:23:36 oerjan: oh, so it's a list that's lazy 21:23:41 that's programming for you :( 21:23:42 atriq: It'd be funny if the channel turned out to be the world. 21:23:43 fizzie: I think Fiora? 21:23:46 in other news javascriptmvc.com 21:23:46 There were a few more in the past. 21:23:48 er 21:23:56 in other news javascriptmvc.com says they will fix the language on their website in the next two weeks 21:23:57 Indeed, I do know there's multiple gay or bi men here. 21:24:25 fizzie: I'm not sure that'd be so funny if there were no girls in the worl 21:24:40 What the heck is javascrtipmvc.com, and why should I care… 21:24:42 Arc_Koen: But at least the gender ratio would be unskewed by definition. 21:25:28 kmc: will fix it to "our users are software rockstars and ninjas of EXACTLY ONE OF TWO GENDERS AND SEXES"? 21:25:32 just some people who advertise that their product is for "software craftsmen" 21:25:35 copumpkin: yeah probably 21:25:37 baby steps 21:25:44 fizzie: anyway I don't think it is really surprising that this channel is so skewed gender-wise 21:26:01 elliott: I think it's sad that it's not surprising, so there! 21:26:03 it is a tiny obscure arcane corner of the intersection of programming and IRC, both of which have terrible gender stats to start with 21:26:09 copumpkin: me too 21:26:14 but that doesn't make it surprising 21:26:23 I think it's cold and I haven't got enough clothes on 21:26:33 Fiora: yeah she says "there is a critical angle of incidence (measured between the incoming ray and the line normal to the surface) above which total internal reflection can occur. this angle becomes larger if n_cable/n_air becomes smaller. so if the light has to be traveling nearly parallel to the cable to avoid leakage, you can't bend it much" 21:26:48 Software craftshumans. ANTI-ALIEN BIGOTS. 21:27:08 * copumpkin sighs 21:27:14 yeah i'm not going to go after them for failing to include every possible group 21:27:20 they should probably not exclude over 50% of the world population 21:27:36 elliott: Just being skewed isn't surprising, but I'm still somewhat surprised about the degree of it. I mean, it doesn't really seem to be, say, the average of programming and IRC. 21:27:37 it would be better to use terms that don't refer to irrelevant personal details at all 21:27:44 i wonder if the earth's surface is nearly parallel enough. (probably not...) 21:27:45 but baby steps 21:28:06 fizzie: well it is an obscure channel about an obscure part of programming 21:28:10 so you'd expect some degree of amplification 21:28:30 like you would expect a higher degree of nerdy timewasters in here than your average programming IRC channel also 21:28:52 Gregor: not helpful 21:29:41 elliott: But since it's generally agreed among the world's population that this is the objectively best place (right?), that should compensate for it. 21:29:49 > nubBy (((>1).).gcd) [2..] -- ye olde infinite list of primes 21:29:51 [2,3,5,7,11,13,17,19,23,29,31,37,41,43,47,53,59,61,67,71,73,79,83,89,97,101... 21:29:58 fizzie: there was that best place 2004 award 21:32:38 kmc: ahhhh. so you could have a cable that had a better index, but it'd be even more sensitive to bending or so forth? 21:32:44 and they decide to make some tradeoff there? 21:32:49 yeah i guess 21:33:30 just make the cable so wide the light never touches the walls. problem solved. 21:33:50 i don't know how much it's motivated by that vs. availability of materials 21:33:54 perhaps the universe is just a really big fiber optic cable 21:34:22 WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOA DUDE 21:35:15 * kmc bong hit noise 21:36:24 maybe our entire reason for existence is letting a capitalist sell pieces of an imaginary money-producing business slightly faster 21:36:31 poetic 21:36:42 maybe the meaning of life is fiber optic cables 21:36:45 `quote flip a coin 21:36:49 509) game where you flip a coin but it's really really big 21:36:54 Bike seems to be having a bad trip 21:38:17 -!- Gregor has changed nick to RocketJSquirrel. 21:38:45 Bike: charles stross likes that idea 21:38:57 oerjan: what if I said my implementation actually made a copy of the world AND YOU'RE BUT A COPY OF OERJAN 21:38:57 in accelerando when humans finally make contact with aliens, the aliens just want to trade dodgy financial products 21:38:58 ^bool 21:38:58 No. 21:39:01 is that how laundry series ends? 21:39:02 Aw. :/ 21:39:02 oh, that. 21:39:04 oh no not charles stross 21:39:05 backed by uploaded sentient beings 21:39:14 yeah I liked that, seemed pretty realistic 21:39:16 transhuman spam 21:39:23 well, posthuman 21:39:37 Arc_Koen: WHOOOOOOOOOOOOA THAT WOULD EXPLAIN SO MUCH 21:39:40 I feel like I'm beginning to come to terms with the fact that TINCSOAIFOLTUDTNN. 21:40:01 like why this world has this blue tint 21:40:17 i remember trying to read one of charles stross' 20-minutes-into-the-future novels 21:40:18 There's that one piece of scifi where there's a faster-than-light (IIRC) communications band, and it behaves really strangely, but it turns out the problem is humanity hasn't bought the proper service to access it. 21:40:20 yeah copying the red part was harder, somehow 21:40:23 Or something like that, anyway. 21:40:41 the gratuitous phonetic edinburgh accents were just too unbearable 21:40:59 fizzie: was that fine structure? i think i remember something like that 21:41:10 fizzie: That's how Fine Structure starts. 21:41:11 Bike: It was probably that. 21:41:21 fizzie: (except it isn't really that in the end, but) 21:41:26 elliott: Yeah, I never got too far in it. 21:41:26 elliott, wait 21:41:31 i thought you never got that far either 21:41:32 Phantom_Hoover: yes I finished it. 21:41:36 ??? 21:41:38 that's literally in the second chapter dude 21:41:43 you could've told me man! 21:41:51 no i mean to find out that it wasn't really that 21:41:54 you kinda spoiled the payoff of the first chapter 21:42:01 it's actually the second chapter 21:42:04 whatever 21:42:12 the first chapter is unbelievable scenes, the mindfuck one 21:42:35 tswett: is that an acronym to the effect of acronyms being incomprehensible? 21:42:41 i skipped the first chapter because it sounded like someone on a mxiture of acid and speed watching a music visualizer 21:42:58 there is only one computable set of axioms describing fine structure spoilers 21:43:04 ! 21:43:05 spaceed 21:43:05 oerjan, it's for 'there is no computable set of axioms in first order logic that uniquely describes the natural numbers" 21:43:22 kmc: you should go back and not skip it and then read the rest of it too 21:43:26 ok 21:43:27 kmc, it actually makes sense later! 21:43:29 will do cap'n 21:43:29 kmc: made me wonder how multiple time dimensions would work, though 21:43:30 i'm sure 21:43:40 (the first chapter makes no sense but is also sort of important for understanding ~the ending~) 21:43:41 Bike: acid will do that too 21:43:43 ok 21:43:45 sorry for spoiling the punchline tho 21:43:48 fine structure does have a completely ridiculous startup lag though 21:44:00 there are what, 5 chapters of completely disjoint narratives? 21:44:17 Phantom_Hoover: fine structure is like a collection of short stories that someone made a fanfiction crossover sequel to 21:44:20 except the sequel is actually good 21:44:23 kmc: obviously what i need to do is go trippin while surrounding myself in textbooks. eventually i will have covered my walls with E8 models and came up with a GUT 21:44:40 elliott, i know that! but it's formatted like a book so it's confusing until you realise that 21:45:33 yes 21:46:12 if anyone else hasn't read fine structure please do so, it is important, thanks 21:46:20 it's too constant 21:46:48 didn't qiforgetherestofhissitename start writing another thing, that involved magical quines 21:47:00 * oerjan swats coppro -----### 21:48:04 * Fiora http://fioraaeterna.tumblr.com/post/35130135725/ or maybe not so constant? 21:48:12 Bike, yes 21:49:02 does it suck? 21:49:12 -!- atriq has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 21:49:30 idk, i'm holding off until it's complete 21:49:47 some interesting ideas, but interesting ideas are cheap 21:54:00 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 21:58:15 http://www.reddit.com/r/math/comments/13vgwf/teaching_math_to_infantsbabies_book_list/ 21:58:27 redditors r good parents 21:59:46 Bike: he also wrote another "novel" (fsvo) before fine structure which is pretty good 22:00:29 what was it about 22:02:07 stuff 22:02:11 mechas broadly I guess :P 22:02:16 http://qntm.org/ed 22:02:30 it is even more collection-of-short-stories than fine structure though 22:02:47 and also takes ages to get started due to the format it was written in (everything2 day log entries) at first 22:03:56 > evalState (do undefined; put 3; y <- get; put 4; return y) undefined 22:03:57 3 22:04:04 > runState (do undefined; put 3; y <- get; put 4; return y) undefined 22:04:06 (3,4) 22:04:34 aight 22:06:19 http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/A/AS_CHINA_ONION_KIM 22:07:06 > runState (do x; put x; y <- x; put x; return x) x 22:07:07 Couldn't match expected type `Control.Monad.Trans.State.Lazy.StateT 22:07:08 ... 22:07:17 elliott: link takes me to some bullshit "pick a member web site" thing 22:07:31 china daily ran the onion's sexiest man of the year story 22:07:43 kmc: http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/A/AS_CHINA_ONION_KIM?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2012-11-27-07-38-17 then 22:07:52 i tend to assume everything after the ? is useless url junk 22:08:14 yeah 22:08:20 generally a good assumption 22:10:39 -!- MiJyn has joined. 22:10:53 hello 22:11:03 `welcome MiJyn 22:11:07 MiJyn: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 22:12:08 is MiJyn related to UrJin 22:12:13 wait... 22:12:23 UrJin? oerjan? 22:13:09 no relation. 22:13:44 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:13:51 * oerjan gets a myth adventures webcomic flashback 22:14:12 -!- sebbu has joined. 22:14:13 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 22:14:13 -!- sebbu has joined. 22:15:59 Hey guys, mind if I buttify the topic? 22:16:07 yes 22:16:13 http://www.airshipentertainment.com/mythcomic.php?date=20100216 in particular. 22:16:43 tswett: no ends, whiffs or butts! 22:22:03 :t First 22:22:04 Maybe a -> First a 22:22:16 tswett: what does that mean 22:22:29 "Buttify"? 22:22:33 It means this. 22:22:37 -!- tswett has set topic: (using fingers to buttdicate triangular shape) SMELL SMELL SMELL GOOD NEW NEW NEW slice drink BUTT BUTT (butt in air) STARS STARS STARS | the butt news is, /usr/bin/make-loud-noises butt. the bad butt is, I think I just woke everyone up. | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 22:23:06 i think this is not a good change 22:23:09 > runRWS (do tell (First Nothing); undefined; put 1; ask) 2 3 22:23:11 (2,1,First {getFirst = *Exception: Prelude.undefined 22:23:15 I shall undo the change. 22:23:15 oops 22:23:22 oh right 22:23:40 > runRWS (do tell (First (Just 1)); undefined; put 2; ask) 3 4 22:23:41 (3,2,First {getFirst = Just 1}) 22:23:50 -!- tswett has set topic: (using fingers to indicate triangular shape) SMELL SMELL SMELL GOOD NEW NEW NEW slice drink MATCH SPARKLER (thrown in air) STARS STARS STARS | the good news is, /usr/bin/make-loud-noises works. the bad news is, I think I just woke everyone up. | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 22:24:09 -!- nooga has joined. 22:25:55 -!- monqy has joined. 22:27:02 monqy: hi 22:27:16 hey 22:27:20 dammit 22:28:13 Damnit, monqy. You responded wrong. 22:28:49 hi 22:56:23 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 22:59:55 -!- jfischoff has quit (Quit: jfischoff). 23:03:50 -!- boily has quit (Quit: Poulet!). 23:06:08 x 23:06:14 x 23:06:20 x 23:10:21 × 23:11:57 hi 23:16:35 -!- RocketJSquirrel has changed nick to Gregor. 23:29:23 Someone at tech club was telling me parameterized queries are not perfect at preventing SQL Injection 23:30:48 I’m a bit skeptical about that, but interested of hearing the details. 23:32:20 Um, he gave me an example SQL injection 23:32:38 I'm pretty sure he's wrong, but figured I'd ask here 23:32:52 well what is the example 23:33:20 1' OR 1=1--' 23:33:33 Into what query 23:33:36 Parameterized queries will handle that fine. 23:33:49 Didn't specify a query in particular 23:33:56 If parametrized queries don't protect you from SQL injection, the implementation is broken. 23:34:20 I don't see anything special about that injection. It's pretty much the one you try first if you think the system supports --comments 23:34:26 Lumpio-, yeah, that's what I'm thinking. Maybe he thought when I said "parameterized query" that I meant something else 23:35:02 I do know of attacks where if you're filtering and blacklisting ' you can work around that, maybe he was thinking of that? (Bad example to show me though) 23:35:13 i think this person just doesn't understand 23:35:16 what they are talking about 23:35:26 Why would anybody "filter and blacklist" things 23:35:46 lumpio: PHP 23:35:49 probably they think parameterised query = "... WHERE foo='$a'" 23:35:52 because you put parameters in?? 23:36:02 Hahah *kills self* 23:36:03 Incompetence. I might have stated something about SQL injections being preventable, and he said SQL injections will never go away 23:36:16 If he said "because programmers are stupid" I would have been inclined to agree. 23:37:18 But he seems to think it's a sort of arms race, better defenses against SQL injection and then more sophisticated SQL injection attacks 23:38:03 Yeah, that's stupid. 23:38:11 ion: Good point 23:38:14 I'd blacklist PHP any day 23:38:15 SQL injections are 100% preventable. 23:38:42 ...assuming competent people 23:39:08 Naw. If it gets to the point where you're taking advantage of, say, bugs in the SQL parser, rather than in the query generation, then that's not SQL injection anymore. 23:39:30 ...assuming people use parameters in the first place 23:39:35 That implies competence. 23:40:00 Well if you're going that far, then we can just say all of this is only possible if people are competent enough to build computers. 23:40:39 I'm going that far because it's realistic 23:46:40 Phantom_Hoover: hi 23:49:04 arbalest! 23:49:39 otlufin! 23:50:47 `word 50 23:50:51 za bork con yanurnfus mur ankartadrev clers pred ta rnevildicasted unlie tacratarkerlergasanatlantleve drefifoacclarmet estiseafturettlye camism dimanineurpannt striveron evill triitisquasemiturno essitumfinginartnerrymensol paimsopykllsocasoli cond fring reck ku ing kully sorthoetong rity lo cul nasulpi schranatingidantus rajo reicabi exce panti tenzious mante mer ma kric sepulnes borapsharii vinat sorgandhevelocrnmaron chs ge allooterds veb 23:51:18 Unlie! 23:51:21 trully evill 23:52:08 sorgandhevelocrnmaron 23:52:18 Phantom_Hoover: should i start the fort 23:52:27 go fort and multiply 23:52:29 yes! 23:52:32 yes do that! 23:52:35 `word 20 23:52:39 down apto brediamiza ing emet sl din clon slancomount delt undesssoroperthettanont evi nip are med leksulianie recapharting cogenckes ittodfji proy 23:52:51 elliott still hasn't started the fort? 23:52:58 I thought he was going to do that days ago... 23:53:02 monqy: you should join 23:53:05 :( 23:53:05 then i'd start it! 23:53:09 ittodfji sounds like a relative of itflabtijtslwi 23:53:12 don't you love dwarf fortress 23:53:34 remember how I was learning dwarf fortress but i gave up for reasons nobody agreed with 23:54:07 something about getting started being slow 23:54:43 yeah but if you play a succession for then you don't need to start a fort 23:54:54 monqy: you know how DF adventure mode was amazing 23:55:01 yeah 23:55:23 also i dont know how to play df..... 23:55:25 monqy: fortress mode is like that x100 except it's not awful to control 23:55:33 x100 because you have 100 dwarves playing! 23:55:48 i dont even remember the things i forgot about it! 23:56:16 that's ok 23:56:20 it can be a learning experience! 23:56:30 it's kind of hard to kill an established fort anyway 23:56:34 they run basically handsfree after a while 23:56:34 uh 23:56:41 (FSVO) 23:56:44 (as long as nothing bad happens) 23:57:06 where 'bad' can easily mean 'the death of 3 dorfs' 23:57:57 Phantom_Hoover: OK tell me how to get DFHack... doing things. 23:58:09 Like if I install DF and get DFHack how do I run DF-with-DFHack-stuff. 23:59:07 uh 23:59:44 the 'even an idiot could do it!' way is using ccmake and setting a couple of compilation parameters