00:00:08 i am an idiot so i did it that way 00:00:42 the build instructions that come with it should be enough 00:01:12 dfhack itself is just a wrapper executable; you run it from a terminal, it launches df and gives you a command line 00:02:15 -!- Gregor has set topic: Nope. | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 00:03:02 mmm 00:03:19 succinct. 00:04:27 -!- nooodl has joined. 00:04:40 elliott, any luck? 00:06:20 Phantom_Hoover: well I didn't start yet!! 00:07:13 -!- nooodl_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 00:12:15 wow 00:12:35 dfhack has a command to instantly double the population of cats 00:12:46 watching large-scale kitten dynamics is quite fascinating 00:13:07 Phantom_Hoover: Q: if we use DFHack on this thing how will you be able to stop yourself cheating. 00:13:13 You have to earn your cats, man. 00:13:55 it's a legitimate point 00:13:57 -!- Gregor has set topic: Large-scale kitten dynamics | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 00:14:22 i think i can stop myself using the big ones, like prospect all or reveal 00:14:42 but there are some lesser ways of cutting corners that are kind of fuzzy 00:16:33 didn't you use prospecting on that other fort we had 00:17:45 yeah 00:17:57 how can I trust you Phantom_Hoover... 00:18:01 but since then i've become more patient! 00:18:09 also i talked you into it, it was your fault too! 00:18:15 man 00:18:24 what if you ran dfhack by doing ./dfhack & disown and closing the terminal so you can't use the console 00:18:29 would you be able to restrain yourself??? 00:18:50 no because dgvx is too damn useful 00:19:18 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 00:19:20 Phantom_Hoover................ 00:19:35 uh 00:19:45 vein digging is on toady's to-do list 00:19:54 Phantom_Hoover................ 00:20:05 oh come on 00:20:28 P h a n t o m _ H o o v e r . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 00:20:58 anyway, who'd have thought kittens would have a survival rate of nearly 33% when dropped 13 z-levels onto a rough cave floor 00:21:00 vein digging sounds somewhat unpleasant 00:21:29 monqy unfortunately has a survival rate of 0% 00:22:42 monqy died as he lived, in a pile of dead kittens and vomit 00:22:59 that doesn't sound anything like me 00:32:09 good, good 00:41:36 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 00:48:56 so they have this game where someone draws and the other try to guess 00:49:06 and she drew a plane 00:49:14 with a man in the cockpit, and an arrow to that man 00:49:27 and I was like, "How do they call a man that pilots a plane??" 00:49:43 silly french 00:49:58 well it was in french, but it's the same words in french 00:57:39 Phantom_Hoover 01:49:05 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:56:22 -!- FreeFull has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 01:56:39 -!- FreeFull has joined. 01:57:44 -!- variable has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 02:02:26 -!- variable has joined. 02:12:38 -!- jfischoff has joined. 02:18:01 -!- ineiros has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 02:18:08 -!- ineiros has joined. 02:23:32 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:57:12 -!- Arc_Koen has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:57:38 -!- Arc_Koen has joined. 02:59:10 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 03:01:06 hey, just wondering... do people talk about esoteric languages here? 03:01:18 Rarely. 03:01:46 In principle X-D 03:02:02 MiJyn: hahahahahahhaahahahahahaha 03:02:05 haahah 03:02:26 ha ha ha ha hah hah ahhaha ha 03:04:43 hello MiJyn 03:04:49 shachaf: it's actually pretty hard to draw the line between defensive coding and cargo cult coding, sometimes 03:04:54 at least without knowing the mental state of the author 03:05:12 kmc: For the Django thing? 03:05:18 that's an example, yeah 03:05:21 MiJyn: That is the intent. 03:05:43 MiJyn: I believe elliott's "laughs" were actually programs or parts of a program in some esoteric language 03:05:43 in theory, if os.urandom() completely fails you, then hashing in the email address gives you a little more entropy 03:05:54 no i was laughing 03:06:00 but it's not worth much at all 03:06:14 because an attacker who is trying to forge a signup knows what the email address is 03:06:35 i think it's more like OpenSSL tossing the PID into the entropy pool 03:06:46 enough to obscure when the other parts are broken (Debian) but not enough to actually protect anything 03:06:57 -!- augur has joined. 03:08:22 -!- elliott has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8). 03:28:31 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 03:38:29 -!- quintopia has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 03:39:02 -!- quintopia has joined. 03:40:19 -!- sebbu has joined. 03:40:19 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 03:40:19 -!- sebbu has joined. 03:41:37 MiJyn: I believe elliott's "laughs" were actually programs or parts of a program in some esoteric language 03:41:38 lol 03:41:42 probably 03:41:43 :P 03:41:47 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:41:55 hey 03:42:05 if someone didn't make a language like that... 03:42:12 would be fun to make something like an "ook" variant :P 03:42:29 you know, like ha hah would be +, hah ha would be -, etc.. xD 03:43:38 -!- elliott has joined. 03:43:40 no i was just laughing 03:43:42 -!- elliott has left. 03:43:52 let's all laugh at elliott 03:43:58 lol 03:44:28 haha elliott what a lol 03:44:43 i made a language 03:44:50 where "haha elliott what a lol" is a program 03:45:00 that outputs a joke of which elliott is the butt 03:45:12 i'll whisper you the URL to the interpreter 03:45:18 it's the best joke 03:47:34 lol 03:48:15 I'm actually halfway serious... I'm trying to write a full BF compiler with support for as many dialects as possible (currently supports BF, Ook, Blub, Pbrain, and Brainlove), and it would be fun to make one for it :P 03:48:53 i have it on good authority that snipers are in place here to intercept talk of new brainfuck dialects. 03:49:29 lol 03:49:41 amazing how many BF dialects there are :P 03:50:01 it's like as if anyone who makes an esoteric language HAS to make a BF dialect :P 03:50:09 that's because all you have to do is come up with eight symbols that map to bf's. 03:50:54 yeah, no thinking envolved 03:53:31 still fun to make a compiler though :P 03:53:49 it's a corollary of wadler's law 03:53:53 people are obsessed with concrete syntax 03:54:08 they'd much rather invent new concrete syntax for an existing language than come up with actually novel semantics 03:54:20 it's the same with perl/python/php/ruby/javascript/lua/... 03:54:41 really? I think that it's just that people aren't creative enough to figure out new languages 03:55:01 so instead they just write meta-programming languages that compile to others 03:55:07 I guess I'm guilty of that :/ 03:55:40 i'm not sure "metaprogramming" means what you just used it as 03:56:15 sorry, wrong word :( 03:56:32 whether a language compiles to another language is not a property of the language but of the compiler 03:57:17 I think you know what I mean though (something like groovy or scheme) 03:57:30 i don't, no 03:57:40 you just named two random languages for all i can tell 03:57:45 can't say I do, since none of the first implementations of any of the languages kmc listed to any with similar semantics, far as I know 03:57:53 *compiled to any 03:58:13 have you ever heard of "cat" 03:58:22 kmc, they are both based on Java 03:58:26 what? 03:58:27 no 03:58:31 Cats are nice. I like cats. 03:58:32 both are just interfaces to java 03:58:32 scheme has nothing to do with java 03:58:42 interfaces, hahaha. 03:58:48 groovy is typically implemented by compiling to JVM 03:58:53 but you can also compile python, ruby, or javascript to JVM 03:58:54 UGH, I CANT TYPE TODAY! 03:59:08 it's not a property of the language 03:59:20 and JVM != Java 03:59:22 so basically 03:59:25 what you are saying makes no sense 03:59:26 yeah, I can't remember the name of that S language (which is apparently quite popular), and "compiles" to Java 03:59:32 kmc: Any VM you compile Java to will be a JVM. 03:59:33 they don't compile to java 03:59:33 qed 03:59:36 doesn't matter, the point is what it compiles to doesn't matter 03:59:43 kmc, oh really? I thought they did 03:59:54 you can make a language vastly different from Java and compile it to the same virtual machine 03:59:56 also i don't understand why people identify languages and implementations so strongly, it's so weird. it's not like there aren't a billion implementations of popular languages like C 04:00:13 D and Haskell are very different languages and yet we compile them both to this virtual machine called x86 processor 04:00:14 Sgeo__: be sure to tell MiJyn about "clojure" sometime 04:00:26 monqy: actually i'm not sure Sgeo__ has heard of clojure 04:00:46 that won't stop him from talking about it 04:01:14 Bike, I think C was not the best example... it seems like as if each popular language is based on C 04:01:26 how the hell do you figure that 04:01:40 ? 04:01:43 other than, again, using lots of syntactic things like {}. 04:01:47 monqy: What's "clojure"? 04:01:58 ask Sgeo__ 04:02:11 monqy: I want it in your own words! 04:02:17 "ask Sgeo__" 04:02:27 Thanks. 04:02:46 Bike, yeah, syntax is based onC 04:02:48 *on c 04:03:01 syntax is the least interesting part of a language design 04:03:03 yes but the point is, who cares about that 04:03:14 yet it's the part most people fixate on 04:03:25 other than those poor people who embroil themselves in arguments about python tabulation and such, i guess 04:03:26 it's easy to have opinions about syntax and they can't be "right" or "wrong" 04:03:43 it's hard to have opinions about semantics because then you have to understand, like, math and computer science and stuff 04:03:54 and you might say something factually incorrect 04:04:02 gosh, that sounds hard 04:04:02 as designers of popular languages tend to do on a regular basis 04:20:33 i'm not bitter at all 04:20:48 it shows 04:21:09 i'm glad 04:21:42 seriously though, rants aside, being a programmer is really really great 04:22:04 kmc is just trying to run through an entire lifetime's supply of bitterness in a few years. 04:22:19 i've tried that, it doesn't really work out well 04:22:22 and then i'll die :( 04:27:11 @kmc, don't worry, you have a couple lifetime's supply of bitterness :P 04:27:11 Unknown command, try @list 04:31:52 -!- elliott has joined. 04:32:16 kmc: do you know if there is a way to set a timestamp for a unix user just for their account 04:32:21 so I can use my actual timestamp on my account on my server 04:36:01 -!- elliott has quit (Quit: leaving). 04:39:15 -!- elliott has joined. 04:41:47 -!- Arc_Koen has quit (Quit: Comment on appelle un mec qui pilote un avion ?). 04:41:49 what? 04:42:05 timestamp? 04:42:33 ps, by timestamp I meant timezone 04:43:54 and by timezone I meant time dilation 04:44:30 -!- jfischoff has quit (Quit: jfischoff). 04:44:44 ah 04:44:53 you can set the TZ environment variable 04:45:02 oh i guess in retrospect that is kind of obvious 04:45:07 TZ=Europe/Moscow date 04:45:18 is there a "sanctioned" way to set that globally for an account 04:46:06 kmc: by the way I blame you for the fact that I had to come up with "mosh solidity -- dtach -A ~/.irssi/socket irssi" 04:47:10 wuh 04:47:41 elliott: typically just put it in ~/.bash_profile 04:48:06 export TZ=America/Jerkcity 04:48:07 mmm 04:48:19 does that work if I am e.g. executing a command with mosh though!! it won't run that will it 04:48:28 no it will run .bashrc instead 04:48:43 my .bash_profile is the one line "source ~/.bashrc" 04:48:48 and then i put all the real meaty business in ~/.bashrc 04:49:02 ^---- pro tip 04:49:41 why would it run .bashrc anyway 04:51:15 well mosh uses ssh to launch a mosh-server 04:51:29 and ssh invokes a shell on the remote host to parse the command line 04:51:59 you can see this with e.g. ssh foo 'echo $HOSTNAME' 04:52:12 so mosh-server inherits the environment from that interactive, non-login shell 04:52:32 mmm 04:52:34 fair enough then 04:52:38 The remote shell is interactive? 04:53:28 think so 04:53:35 kmc: looks like debian's default ~/.profile just runs ~/.bashrc too 04:53:38 more or less 04:53:42 hmm no 04:54:00 ssh localhost 'echo $-' # does not show 'i' 04:54:24 # If not running interactively, don't do anything 04:54:25 [ -z "$PS1" ] && return 04:54:25 somehow it does read ~/.bashrc though 04:54:35 so mosh will not read my bashrc as-is? 04:54:37 because of that 04:54:38 all confusing 04:54:40 maybe 04:54:48 just try it \o/ 04:54:48 | 04:54:48 |\ 04:54:51 HELL YES 04:55:55 /o/ 04:55:56 | 04:55:56 /< 04:56:06 it's Europe/London right 04:56:09 \o\ \o/ /o/ 04:56:09 | | | 04:56:09 /| /'\ /< 04:56:14 Yay. 04:56:20 what's the thing to make date output timezone 04:56:54 +%Z 04:57:01 +%z 04:57:30 looks like it works \o/ 04:57:30 | 04:57:30 |\ 04:58:06 -!- elliott has quit (Quit: leaving). 04:58:12 is that automatic 04:58:42 -!- elliott has joined. 04:58:59 aight 04:59:14 thank you kmc 04:59:19 i am content 04:59:35 I thought I slept until noon. Fortunately, I only slept until midnight. 05:02:20 British Double Summertime 05:02:26 elliott: yay 05:02:29 glad to help 05:02:46 now let's see if i can play that game with this fancy new client 05:02:52 nope 05:02:53 at the finance company we had all the machines set to America/New_York even the ones in singapore and shit 05:02:53 not enough lag :( 05:02:57 America USA #1 05:03:13 btw isn't setting TZ globally for a user going to cause some horrible breakage 05:03:21 like if sudo inherits it or something and i run apt and it writes out a timestamp 05:03:43 shrug 05:03:45 yolo 05:04:23 i dont life kmc 05:04:26 live 05:04:43 yolobt 05:04:50 elliott: lens types are "pretty cool huh" 05:04:54 no 05:26:04 -!- elliott has changed nick to elliott_. 05:26:17 -!- elliott_ has changed nick to elliott. 05:59:11 -!- augur has joined. 06:03:50 -!- nooodl has joined. 06:11:49 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 06:45:29 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 07:07:36 elliott: I doubt it; TZ only determines the ASCII serialization of timestamps. 07:08:19 I *highly* doubt apt deals in timestamps other than seconds since Jan 1, 1970 00:00 UTC. 07:09:01 In effect, TZ is just another locale setting. 07:10:41 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 07:28:28 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 07:44:03 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 08:07:36 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 08:18:48 -!- nooga has joined. 08:21:23 -!- FreeFull has quit. 08:31:20 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 08:37:44 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: tiredd). 08:41:48 elliott, monqy Fiora MOG 08:44:54 monqy: hi 08:45:04 shachaf: hi 08:45:20 monqy: did you ever listen to "return to the neverhood" 08:45:32 i forget 08:45:46 well remember 09:12:04 https://i.chzbgr.com/completestore/12/11/15/geiBYluyr0mSKQWKE295YA2.jpg 09:41:24 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 10:18:08 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 10:27:06 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 10:28:33 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 11:02:16 -!- ais523 has joined. 11:21:50 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:22:00 -!- ais523 has joined. 11:48:19 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 11:54:58 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 11:55:40 -!- copumpkin has joined. 12:07:40 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:08:11 -!- ais523 has joined. 12:08:15 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 12:15:58 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 12:27:22 -!- jfischoff has joined. 13:12:54 -!- ais523 has joined. 13:27:08 -!- boily has joined. 13:46:37 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 14:03:46 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:03:53 -!- ais523 has joined. 14:08:53 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 14:09:24 -!- hogeyui has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 14:10:02 -!- sebbu has joined. 14:10:02 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 14:10:02 -!- sebbu has joined. 14:15:43 -!- Frooxius has joined. 14:37:19 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:37:33 -!- ais523 has joined. 14:44:07 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:44:26 -!- ais523 has joined. 14:44:44 -!- jfischoff has quit (Quit: jfischoff). 14:45:51 -!- Arc_Koen has joined. 14:48:23 -!- hogeyui has joined. 15:14:07 I predict that absolutely nobody here knows about irssi theming. 15:14:33 I know everything I want to know about irssi theming. 15:14:36 That's enough, right? 15:15:05 No. 15:15:21 elliott: did you know idris is racist :'( 15:15:45 06:48 I have just used Haskell Char for the interpreter, and C char for the compiler, because other people know more about this than I do 15:15:48 06:48 I am clueless how to deal with unicode at all 15:15:51 elliott: You should help clear things up. 15:15:58 Ugh. 15:16:00 -!- TheBlackPro has joined. 15:16:06 I like Unicode but I don't like writing Unicodecode. 15:16:08 Uni{code^2}. 15:16:43 -!- TheBlackPro has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:20:19 -!- carado has joined. 15:22:53 "They were the pointed Saxon minuscules of the eighth or ninth century A.D., and brought with them memories of an uncouth time when under a fresh Christian veneer ancient faiths and ancient rites stirred stealthily, and the pale moon of Britain looked sometimes on strange deeds in the Roman ruins of Caerleon and Hexham, and by the towers along Hadrian's crumbling wall." 15:23:06 (Emphasis mine.) 15:23:30 -!- Frooxius has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.17/2009122204]). 15:23:40 Also I'm probably not helping the there's-esoteric-and-then-there's-esoteric confusion factor by that. 15:23:50 -!- ais523 has quit. 15:24:05 -!- ais523 has joined. 15:24:23 U+18F739 'POINTED SAXON MINISCULE A' 15:24:41 -!- Frooxius has joined. 15:25:53 kmc: Unicode codepoints aren't even allowed to be that big. :-( 15:26:22 but UCS codepoints are! 15:26:36 ? 15:27:29 maybe not anymore 15:27:54 > 65536*17 15:27:56 1114112 15:28:17 but i thought ISO 10646 spec'd a 32-bit codepoint space 15:28:24 and there's a corresponding variant of UTF-8 15:28:48 Hmm, I didn't hear about that. 15:29:38 fizzie: I bet *you* know about irssi theming. 15:29:58 kmc: UCS is restricted to Unicode size now I think? 15:30:00 Along with UTF. 15:32:21 maybe so 15:32:43 fizzie: So about that irssi theming?? 15:32:53 https://blogs.oracle.com/ksplice/entry/the_1st_international_longest_tweet 15:33:12 fizzie: Alternatively irssi logging. Is there a way to log ANSI colour codes without having it, like, actually log the ANSI colour codes in my theme? 15:35:41 I've dabbled a very small bit with the theming. 15:36:15 fizzie: Do you know how I would, say, change the formatting of the timestamps when it replays the awaylog? 15:36:43 My normal timestamps are greyed out and have a space between them and the but in the awaylog they're normally-coloured and bashed right up against the nick, it is not very nice. 15:36:49 And irssi themes seem to be completely undocumented. 15:37:31 It seems to be rather crummy, really. Most of it is in the format strings that you can see with /format but there's also the templates ("abstract"s) used in those that are only in the theme files. 15:38:17 Something about ad-hoc. 15:39:15 As a guess I think changing the "timestamp" abstract style should affect all timestamps as long as all /formats actually use it. 15:39:38 But it's all undocumented, that's also true. 15:40:14 fizzie: Well what I have formats = { "fe-common/core" = { timestamp = "%K{timestamp $Z} %n"; }; };is: 15:40:17 Er. 15:40:18 Rearrange that sentence. 15:40:27 It seems to work for everything but the awaylog. 15:40:53 Well, there's also /set log_timestamp. 15:41:04 It's a setting, not a format. 15:41:09 (Of course.) 15:41:37 fizzie: Yeees, but if I set that won't it affect my Actual Logs too? This is just the awaylog thing that irssi keeps for when I'm away and replays automatically. 15:41:53 I think putting formatting codes in that would make me feel really silly. And then make me ask that logging question again. 15:42:15 It will, but if they both use the same thing and the replay is just a cat-file-on-screen... 15:42:59 fizzie: Is that actually a thing? 15:43:01 I really hope it isn't. 15:43:13 I don't use the awaylog, I don't really know. 15:43:16 I mean, people who keep the default "ANSI colours in logs" setting off don't get a completely unthemed awaylog, surely. 15:44:07 There's awaylog_colors, awaylog_file and awaylog_level. 15:44:28 It could well be using the logging framewurk even if it's slightly different. 15:44:40 Off to the shops now. -> 15:46:05 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:46:11 -!- ais523_ has joined. 15:46:53 -!- jfischoff has joined. 15:47:18 ais523_: ping 15:47:28 -!- ais523_ has changed nick to ais523. 15:47:59 ais523: ping2 15:48:13 hellolliott 15:48:17 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 15:48:21 i am ais523 15:48:52 lambdabot: can you ping me 15:49:03 -!- carado has joined. 15:49:37 elliott 15:49:53 help 15:50:02 elliott 15:50:11 stop it elliott 15:50:21 fizzie: Looks like colour formatting doesn't work in log_timestamp. 15:52:06 -!- FreeFull has joined. 15:56:29 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 15:56:55 -!- sebbu has joined. 16:07:28 -!- ais523 has quit. 16:07:38 -!- ais523 has joined. 16:07:53 elliott: pong 16:07:57 ais523: 2 late 16:08:01 maybe even 3 late 16:08:39 elliott: well I have connection problems atm 16:08:45 and they're making it hard to see if I'm pinged 16:08:50 because everything is red anyway 16:08:59 do you have something to talk about, or were you pinging for fun? 16:09:28 I was pinging you for testing purposes 16:09:30 but you were 4late 16:10:40 OK 16:10:49 now quickly come up with something to say! 16:13:37 ais523: umm, err 16:13:39 ais523: how's that Feather 16:18:05 ais523: not good enough for you? 16:18:17 elliott: help 16:18:20 express an opinion :'( 16:18:53 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 16:26:33 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 16:27:34 -!- heroux has joined. 16:30:14 elliott: best spam page history we've had for over a year: http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=User:CarlenaoWolf&diff=34869&oldid=34868 16:30:19 I'm going to delete it, but people might want to look at it first 16:30:42 wow good 16:30:49 should keep it and just remove the link or something 16:30:54 and block them anyway, of course 16:31:17 yeah, I blocked 16:31:30 I can delink and userfy if you like 16:31:39 ais523: it's already userfied, right? 16:31:46 oh, yes 16:31:48 elliott: I bet you feel like writing a microbenchmark? 16:31:49 don't even have to userfy, then 16:31:55 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 16:31:57 I gave my presentation on mushspace-related stuff at school: in summary CFUNGE LOSES EVEN MORE 16:32:34 Deewiant: That sounds like fun. 16:32:37 elliott: I redirected the link at example.com 16:32:40 Was fizzie there??? 16:32:48 In more serious summary I can get rid of hash tables, which I'm happy about, and nothing is still near to being finished 16:32:50 No 16:32:51 ais523: how much is IANA paying you 16:33:05 Deewiant: I forget, do you have cfunge's cheaty static area still? 16:33:10 I never did 16:33:14 good 16:33:14 Or well 16:33:15 well CCBI did right 16:33:24 -!- heroux has joined. 16:33:31 I do because constants are faster than variables and the difference is measurable 16:33:35 But 16:33:46 It's equivalent to everything else I do, it's just preallocated 16:33:52 mmmmm okay 16:33:59 is it fairly-positioned and sized though 16:34:00 as in 16:34:05 not randomly including some negatives just because fungot does 16:34:06 elliott: no. they overlap, but aren't really fatal... it's as obscene as " weird thing happened, i'm going to dia and i should say 16:34:35 IIRC it starts at -16,-16,-4 or something and extends 128,512,16 or something 16:34:46 Deewiant: :( 16:34:54 How about -128,-512,-16 to 128,512,16? 16:35:06 I don't want it to be too huge :-P 16:35:10 Come on. 16:35:19 I'll write a funge benchmark that specifically goes just outside your bounds. 16:35:20 The point is to fit most source code in it, plus a bit of padding 16:35:23 Go ahead 16:35:28 I'll beat cfunge handily 16:35:29 You'll have to tweak your constants for me!! 16:35:34 No I won't, because I won't care 16:35:37 I wonder if you take random stack-based languages and replace their stacks with queues would it affect much their computational class 16:35:41 Wow Deewiant 16:35:43 You suck 16:35:46 elliott: This is what slowdown.b98 is for you know ;-P 16:35:49 Avoiding the static area 16:35:53 Mmm 16:36:01 That's what it was originally intended as anyway 16:36:03 Deewiant: So how many _posix_madvises do you have 16:36:06 None 16:36:14 (See: nothing is still near to being finished) 16:36:20 Maybe there should be 16:36:22 How many will you have 16:36:28 I don't know 16:36:47 Surely it's tons. Don't tell me good algorithms and data structures can beat micro-optimised naive algorithms. 16:36:50 If I can get a difference with 95% confidence according to ministat by adding some then I will add some, otherwise I won't 16:36:52 That's just silly. 16:37:35 Microöptimization still helps :-P 16:37:44 wow, the spambot actually overwrote its own link 16:37:46 I did some tweaking related to function inlining and got a 20% speedup 16:37:52 as well as running the page through a translator and back again 16:39:14 But there's tonnes of high-level stuff to do still so I'm not particularly interested in that currently 16:46:06 "Occasionally it could have been stretched through the bee-keeper" 16:58:24 test 16:58:34 elliott test 16:58:58 test2 16:59:01 test3 16:59:04 test4 16:59:09 fungot: test5 16:59:10 Deewiant: or you can give for an error that it gets in my way. 16:59:38 Kq 16:59:39 q 16:59:40 q 16:59:41 q 16:59:42 q 16:59:44 q 16:59:47 q 16:59:49 q 16:59:56 16:59:58 i disagree 17:00:11 q 17:00:19 q 17:00:50 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 17:01:11 This is annoying. 17:01:15 -!- sebbu has joined. 17:01:15 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 17:01:16 -!- sebbu has joined. 17:01:39 fungot: Elliott is annoyed. 17:01:39 Deewiant: nope. 1 sec. 6 and 9 on that page 17:01:43 elliott: Nope! 17:01:54 Deewiant: :( 17:02:02 fungot: elliott is sad. 17:02:02 Deewiant: I'll be not-annoyed if fungot can help me with this awaylog problem. 17:02:02 Deewiant: do you dislike abou tit? how well do you know what 17:02:03 elliott: they should really release a updated stable. :) heh. i won't actually finish anything substantial 17:02:03 how do you find the modified date for a static webpage 17:02:21 elliott: I guess they won't 17:03:14 quintopia: It's in the Last-Modified HTTP header 17:05:00 okay can i ask my broswer for that info? 17:05:34 In Firefox it's ctrl-i (or right-click on page -> view page info, or tools -> page info) 17:11:47 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:19:49 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 17:27:58 fungot: Are you disappointed that the interpreter you run on isn't as good as it could be? 17:27:59 fizzie: i got the " north." clairvoyance rocks. but we have to ditch the fnord system in 80% of its land mass quantities of beefsteak tend to weaken a fighting force? 17:29:27 fizzie: Will you make fungot run on CCBI3? 17:29:29 elliott: at the moment i'm in hex editor... like trying to save you some work, and sysrq isn't enabled, no way 17:29:29 That'd be exciting. 17:29:32 Deewiant: P.S. is it called CCBI3 17:29:36 elliott: No 17:29:52 I'm not sure what it'll be called but something different 17:30:10 Deewiant: Will it be... "mush" 17:30:36 No, that's a bit too ungoogleable for my tastes 17:30:58 (Plus I don't want it to be defined by the library it uses :-P) 17:31:18 I'll try to think of some suitably unpronounceable Finnish or something 17:31:37 fungot: Hey, what are you doing in a hex editor? 17:31:37 fizzie: so not anymore, no. i'd need to transfer large files easily provide a different implementation 17:31:46 Does anyone know of a good brown/lightbrown (i.e. yellow) colour set for terminals? I'd like to disable actual bolding on my terminal so I can just have light colours. 17:31:49 But they blend too closely. 17:31:59 (I don't want to make my brown less golden; would rather make the yellow more yellowy.) 17:32:42 elliott: Make it be (1.2, 1.2, 0.0) in the regular [0, 1] RGB scale. 17:33:20 fizzie: https://twitter.com/Horse_ebooks/status/135235748512280576 17:34:35 Ur welcome. 17:34:52 Ur-welcome, the original welcome that begat all others. 17:36:38 -!- heroux has joined. 17:47:13 -!- augur has joined. 17:51:26 -!- nooodl has joined. 17:58:54 er 18:02:51 Er-welcome, a somewhat unsure specimen. 18:03:10 Har. 18:08:23 fizzie: awaylog? No? C'mon, someone's gotta know. 18:30:25 -!- Bike has joined. 18:36:22 I'll try to think of some suitably unpronounceable Finnish or something 18:36:27 what's finnish for mushroom 18:37:38 sieni 18:39:41 I've had "sienest" in mind for some time, based on "sienestää" (to gather mushrooms), but I'm not sure if I like it or not 18:40:53 i don't like it 18:40:54 hth 18:41:23 Deewiant: "katsosieni". You see, it's like "cfunge"... 18:41:30 (Google Translate saves the day yet again) 18:41:48 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 18:42:12 elliott: It should be "näesieni" unless you want it to mean "look, a mushroom" 18:42:46 elliott: Which of the existing funge interpreter names do you like, anyway? 18:43:22 Deewiant: Um... Shiro. 18:43:32 I think there was that C++ one I liked the name of? But I forget its name. 18:43:44 Stinkhorn? 18:43:49 Hmm. 18:43:54 I must have remembered it as having a better name than it does. 18:44:10 Where does Shiro get its name from anyway 18:44:17 (I may have asked this before) 18:44:27 "Shiro, a special kind of mycelia 18:44:29 " 18:44:46 How to name a Funge thing: Go on Wikipedia -> Look at something about fungi -> Pick a word that looks nice 18:44:53 "Mycelium (plural mycelia) is the vegetative part of a fungus, consisting of a mass of branching, thread-like hyphae. The mass of hyphae is sometimes called shiro, especially within the fairy ring fungi." 18:46:50 I think I'll call it "rice rotten neck" 18:47:14 perfect 18:47:43 I generally prefer names that don't really mean much (but have some sort of relation to the thing) but sound nice. 18:47:57 Either that or uber-generic names when I can't be bothered to care. 18:48:25 I try to prefer names that have a sensible relation to the thing 18:48:41 In some abstract sense, at least 18:48:45 Well, sure. 18:49:00 I just mean I wouldn't name an interpreter something with "funge" in it unless I was doing it under the Too Lazy To Care clause. 18:49:01 So if e.g. Funge programs are fungi then interpreters would have to be things that do something with fungi 18:49:10 Or verbs or something 18:49:23 mushroom reproduction is crazy 18:49:44 the fruiting body of the mushroom produces spores, which grow into haploid mycelia 18:50:11 if two mycelia of compatible types meet, they kinda fuse together 18:50:18 and produce cells with two nuclei each 18:50:30 the types are a bit like sexes then, but i think there can be more than two 18:50:57 also in this sense they can self-fertilize like some plants 18:51:36 currently trying to grow oyster mushrooms at home 18:52:34 fungi are crazy in general 18:53:00 their biology is pretty far out from either plant or animal stuff 18:53:25 yeah 18:54:58 lichen are weird 18:55:18 a symbiosis of a fungus and an alga 18:56:45 Deewiant: Näkösieni. 18:58:07 -!- ogrom has joined. 18:58:08 what's finnish for lichen 18:58:09 fizzie: It's not "visionfunge" 18:58:17 Phantom_Hoover: jäkälä 18:58:22 ooh 18:58:26 that's a good one 18:58:44 Deewiant: No, but it sounds better than "näesieni". 18:59:03 That it does, sure 18:59:54 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:00:07 -!- ais523 has joined. 19:00:16 I quite like "jakala". 19:00:30 How's it pronounced if you don't mangle the "s? 19:00:30 That would be "andfish". 19:01:09 IPA: [ˈjækælæ], X-SAMPA: ["j{k{l{] 19:01:33 jkl is normal.. IPA looks weird 19:01:34 If only I could read either of those. 19:02:30 Just type it to translate.google and ask it to read it for you? 19:02:31 The äs are like in stressed "an": https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/File:en-us-an.ogg 19:02:56 Or, yes, we live in the future so you could abuse that fact 19:03:11 Though the "Listen" button is for some reason not working for me. :/ 19:03:23 Worked for me and it sounded about right too 19:04:03 Chromium must not be multimedia enough for it. 19:04:31 Works in Chromium for me as well 19:04:47 Ah, flashblock. 19:04:58 Whitelisted translate.google.com, now it works. 19:05:13 Yeah, sounds good enough. 19:05:58 I'd say the only thing wrong with it is that it has strangely long pauses between syllables. 19:06:00 Deewiant: OK, throwin' my vote in for some variant of "jakala". 19:06:04 I called the static analysis tool that did the fungot flowgraph for me "mycena", don't quite remember why. It had something to do with the fact that lots of those are bioluminescent. 19:06:05 fizzie: is that: an environment is a module, change that module, and i had the first real personal shoes? 19:06:17 (This is a vote, right?) 19:06:29 Deewiant runs on democracy. 19:06:47 elliott: No, it's a dictatorship. I don't like "jakala" and I'm not going to have a non-ASCII binary name. :-P 19:07:01 KALAA&LI.HAA 19:07:16 That's ASCII and thus completely acceptable. 19:07:23 Deewiant: I think that I do not like you. 19:07:31 (It's the 8.3-compatible nfofile for some Finnish BBS.) 19:07:31 Meh. 19:08:14 "keijurengas" is too long, methinks. Why is Finnish being so difficult? 19:09:18 Deewiant: Vaatimustenmukaiset Concurrent Befunge-98 Tulkki 19:09:23 There used to be some amount of fishing-themed terminology in use for BBS file-shering. MikroBitti called their file area "apaja", meaning (approximately) a place for fishing etc., and the files themselves were fish. 19:10:00 elliott: If you lowercase the Concurrent, it's "Vaatimustenmukaiset samanaikaisesti Befunge-98 Tulkki". 19:10:30 fizzie: I decided to leave it broken as-is. 19:10:43 Is it abbreviated VCBT then? 19:10:52 Yes. 19:11:10 Yhdenmukaisuus Suostumus Befunge -98 Tulkki 19:11:25 (Courtesy of good old intertran @ http://www.tranexp.com:2000/Translate/result.shtml ) 19:11:44 It still translates the word "I" to "I-KIRJAIN" i.e. "THE LETTER I". :-) 19:12:21 Deewiant: Nyt kuluva asia ulkomuoto hyvin l;sitellä erityinen mieltymys kuin Google Kääntää. 19:12:30 (I didn't know the semicolon was a Finnish letter.) 19:13:24 "Now ongoing issue appearance well l;sitellä specific preference than Google Translates." 19:13:55 Deewiant: "Soveliaasti käyttäytyvä yhdessä vaikuttava Befunge-98 esittäjä". (Courtesy of a word-by-word translation performed by picking the least sensible senses from NetMOT.) 19:13:57 Nice. 19:14:05 It was "This looks much less fancy than Google Translate." or such. 19:14:37 I last used it something like 10 years ago; its results were a source of great amusement at the time. 19:15:34 `words --finnish 10 19:15:43 kari kavampassa riisimpanasi leppuilta reviltasi aisemme arvatk-onnala poisemmästänne syysikoloissa kursumiassa 19:15:51 `words --befungeinterpreternames 10 19:15:55 Unknown option: befungeinterpreternames 19:16:57 :-/ 19:18:13 fizzie: You might've read fantasy in Finnish at some point; what does fae/faerie get translated to? 19:20:26 I've read a bit of it in Finnish, but I'm not sure I've read anything that has needed that word. Offhand I'd assume something keiju-derived. 19:20:41 Oh well. 19:21:03 Or possibly the same as elves. 19:22:43 A Midsummer Night's Dream's faeries in the translations go the keiju way, I think. 19:23:51 (Kaijukeiju.) 19:24:00 I was just wondering if there was anything clever for the collective fae-word. 19:24:02 I guess not. 19:26:08 "keijupiiri" is still too long, but at least it has a computing-related piiri pun. 19:28:24 Maybe "haltiapiiri", with the binary of course being called "halt". 19:28:27 Deewiant: Does it have to be 8.3 too? 19:28:42 Unrelated, but I'd like to see the term "keijuvirtapiiri" be used somewhere. 19:28:45 Preferably but it's not a requirement. 19:29:37 Speaking of translations, what are hattivatit in English? 19:29:54 "The Hattifatteners" 19:30:44 Well, it's quite close to the Swedish. 19:31:14 Man, blue is hard. 19:32:17 For those not up to speed in Moomin lore, Hattifatteners are the guys in the lower-right corner of http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/a9/Moomin_kuva.JPG 19:32:50 They have their own article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hattifattener 19:33:06 fizzie: Who *wouldn't* be up to speed in Moomin lore? 19:33:17 Deewiant: Yes, but the picture there just looks stupid. 19:33:23 If you say so. 19:33:54 The Finnish version of the article is much better. 19:34:00 "Näkymättömässä lapsessa Muumipapan näkemissä veneissä on aina pariton määrä hattivatteja[1], mutta toisaalta Muumipeikossa ja pyrstötähdessä tekijän kuvituksessa on kahden, neljän ja kuudenkin hattivatin veneitä[2]." 19:34:05 It's all so meaningful. 19:34:08 :-D 19:34:19 I'm sure there's some kind of deep symbolism involved. 19:34:43 You Finns and your weird language. 19:36:26 elliott: "In The Invisible Child the boats Moominpappa sees always carry an odd number of Hattifatteners[1], but on the other hand in Comet in Moominland the author's illustrations have boats of two, four and even six Hattifatteners." 19:36:31 [2] 19:37:40 You Finns and your weird language. 19:37:54 That was in your weird language. Well, mostly. 19:38:28 "The Hemulens: Creatures that believe in order and like to boss other people around, but find it difficult to listen to anyone and lack a sense of humor. Many hemulens like collecting stuff, and have little time to think about much else." 19:38:33 That's the best translated name. 19:39:16 ("Hemuli" is one of the common pet names derived from my first name, so I have a particular affinity to them.) 19:39:32 (Also I don't listen to anyone and lack a sense of humor.) 19:41:45 `words --finnish 50 19:41:49 luotokiosteiskyt psyyttäviika newtonin levaltaviemmän syrjistämiä nelmäksensä tuttavampi manannesi ahdastamme soveiltani naurastavia monikseen taviansa kottelupana purjakaan arviltamia agani kunnioimina kuvotamaltansa dernisimmilla tähystitetynyt kärkkineni musmalle kuolisevästitu nauhanamme 19:42:19 Nauhanamme: "as our ribbon". 19:44:11 I could take a leaf from Mark Jones's book and call it "hali". 19:45:17 Mark Jones? 19:45:50 It's "a hug". 19:45:56 He made Hugs. 19:46:32 Ahh. 19:46:42 Deewiant: I suppose you need an acronym expansion for it, though. 19:46:50 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 19:46:57 Not really. 19:47:02 But it ends in "i" so that's a start. 19:47:04 I think I am about 3.17x more likely to use software named after hugs than any other kind of software. 19:47:18 Deewiant: Hfunge Ainterpreter Lalsoit'sconformant Iandconcurrent 19:47:29 Henjoy Abeinglocked Linyour Imatrixofsolidity 19:47:42 hali hali my boyfriend's back 19:48:17 Deewiant: Hello All Little Inuits 19:48:32 You can call the companion piece of software "pusi" then. 19:48:43 Happily Angry Like Idiots 19:48:48 -!- ogrom has quit (Quit: Left). 19:49:05 fizzie: Calling anything "pusi" is bound to be a hit among English speakers. 19:49:23 It naturally goes with "hali", though. 19:49:33 I didn't say it's a bad idea. 19:50:42 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 19:52:03 Happy All-Languages* Interpreter (* only supports Funge-98) 19:52:25 Humble would be better with that 19:52:29 good 19:52:41 Deewiant: Humbly, A Language Interpreter 19:52:58 Using A as part of an acronym is somewhat lame 19:53:07 Here's A Language Interpreter 19:53:36 Have A Language Interpreter 19:53:51 Help A Language Interpret 19:54:11 Horrible Abomination of a Language Interpreter 19:54:19 D: 19:56:53 :0~ 19:58:01 Horticulturally Associated Language Interpreter 19:58:11 Deewiant: Happily Arcane Language Interpreter 19:58:45 That's good. 19:59:39 -!- oerjan has joined. 19:59:56 I can use pusi for the JIT then (when/if). 20:00:04 Horrible, Abysmal Lout of an Interpreter 20:00:17 Could also s/Happily/Handy/ 20:00:27 pusi is a compiler for large-scale kitten dynamics, right? 20:00:39 Not that I know of. I hope not. 20:00:45 (warning: norwegian pun) 20:01:30 i guess it's only a letter away from working in english too 20:04:05 Considering that that's how I would pronounce "pusi" on seeing it, I don't think it needs a letter change 20:04:10 To work in English 20:04:31 I wouldn't pronounce it that way. 20:04:37 It looks like poo-see to me. 20:05:20 Gregor is such a poseur 20:11:22 Humorously Academic Language Interpreter 20:13:42 I'm sorry, Deewiant. I'm afraid we can't have that. 20:14:34 `log ais523.*obscure.*reference 20:14:57 Heuristically programmed ALgorithmic Interpreter, except that that HAL's a shitty acronym 20:15:05 2011-12-01.txt:21:31:28: (on another note, I love the way that the standard way to indicate that you get a reference is to make a different obscure reference to the same thing) 20:15:52 Deewiant: And "programmed" is cheating 20:16:01 elliott: That's one reason is shitty 20:16:03 it's* 20:23:23 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:23:54 ^celebrate 20:23:55 \o| |o| |o/ \m/ \m/ |o/ \o/ \o| \m/ \m/ \o| |o| |o/ 20:23:56 | | | `\o/´ | ¦ | `\o/´ | | | 20:23:56 /< >\ |\ | /| ´¸¨ >\ | /| /| /'\ 20:23:56 /'¯|_) /\ 20:23:56 (_| (_| |_) 20:24:24 -!- monqy has joined. 20:26:25 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 20:28:39 -!- ais523 has quit. 20:38:53 um... is there an easy way to reclaim an old nick on freenode? I'd kinda like to register this 20:39:58 yes, just ask a staff member. it must have been unused for 60 days, or was it weeks. 20:40:15 um, who's someone I could poke 20:40:20 * oerjan got his nick that way 20:40:25 oerjan: "10 weeks plus (at staffer discretion) one additional week per full year of registration, up to a maximum of five additional weeks." 20:40:31 You can poke any op on #freenode. 20:40:40 oh, they've changed it then. 20:40:42 I poked the one with the lowest idle time for my cloak. 20:41:01 Last seen : Mar 24 08:12:31 2012 20:41:06 um, "lowest idle time for my cloak"? 20:41:15 > 15*7 20:41:16 105 20:41:27 should be enough i think 20:41:34 Fiora: I poked the person who at the moment had the lowest idle time, for the purpose of getting my 'unaffiliated' cloak set on. 20:41:43 how do I figure out who has the lowest idle time? 20:41:54 Fiora: that's the hard part! 20:42:06 You can whois them randomly until you find a low enough number. 20:42:13 pfff okay 20:42:28 is a + okay? or do I need a @ in freenode 20:42:48 Well, technically you I think should do "/quote STATS p" these days. 20:42:49 there aren't any @s 20:42:58 ? 20:42:59 what does that do? 20:43:05 Fiora: not a channel op, a network op or what they call it 20:43:19 It will list staff members. 20:43:35 'oper', isn't it 20:43:46 oh, I see 20:43:56 okay, I used whois, but it doesn't say idle time 20:44:05 Fiora: Fuchs seems to be the one 20:44:23 Yeah, sorry, voiced on #freenode as opposed to opped. 20:44:40 "All staff currently connected to the network will be voiced in #freenode. Keep in mind that all network staff are volunteers and you may sometimes have to wait for a staffer to become active. You can also issue the command /stats p from within your IRC client." 20:44:46 (The quote was to make it more compatible.) 20:44:56 to get idle times you have to use the /whois Fuchs Fuchs syntax, which asks their local server 20:44:57 okies let me try that 20:45:03 This latter list seems to be "on-call" people, so they should I guess be awake. 20:45:06 Fuchs is on that list. 20:45:13 Could be a good first attempt. 20:45:46 Yay, Fuchs is there 20:45:47 fizzie: he had the lowest idle time a minute ago 20:46:13 Yay 20:46:40 oerjan: Incidentally, it seems that the nick in question also matches the other rule: "Nicks which are at least two weeks old and which were last used less than two hours after their creation are also considered to be expired." 20:46:55 User reg. : Mar 24 07:21:51 2012 (35 weeks, 4 days, 13:23:35 ago) 20:46:59 now I have my esper nick here too 20:47:03 Last seen : Mar 24 08:12:31 2012 (35 weeks, 4 days, 12:32:55 ago) 20:48:12 fizzie: ah. 20:48:57 My alternative grouped nicks (fizzie_, fizzie`) are all technically speaking expired, but maybe that's not a problem. 20:49:39 fizzie: i think they had something about not expiring a users only alternative nick 20:49:45 -!- nooodl has joined. 20:50:06 fizzie: but it ought to be as easy as you /nick'ing to them to reset it... 20:50:22 *+' 20:50:35 Sure, but that'd be uggly. 20:50:57 "If the nick you want is someone's NickServ account name, it is considered expired only when the account itself is expired." But then the FAQ doesn't mention when accounts expire. 20:51:24 fizzie: um it's what several of us did when the last warning about a major cleanup went out 20:51:56 How... plebeian. 20:52:10 I'll have my chauffeur log in as the alternative nicks or something. 20:52:16 Hey, I missed my tenth freenode registered-nick anniversary, just nine weeks ago. Forgot to celebrate. :/ :\ 20:52:22 fizzie: i assume that only applies to plain fizzie itself. i meant that i thought there was a rule about not expiring the second last. 20:53:14 -!- fizzie_ has joined. 20:53:23 I do this thing now. 20:53:28 -!- fizzie_ has changed nick to fizzie`. 20:53:42 Wanted to have some witnesses, too. 20:53:43 My step-mother is an idiot. 20:53:46 -!- fizzie` has quit (Client Quit). 20:54:41 -!- oerjan has changed nick to oerjan_. 20:54:43 -!- oerjan_ has changed nick to oerjan. 20:55:07 oerjan: The stench of a _ is now lingering around your otherwise pristine "oerjan". 20:55:56 fizzie: that sometimes happens when i get thrown out of my linux login without being disconnected from irc, anyway. 20:56:23 I get the ` because of the bouncer. But it's been a while since the last time. 20:57:50 I usually join the Assembly demo party's IRC channel during the event, but don't add it to the autojoin list, so I stay on the channel until I drop out for natural reasons. The event was in August, but I'm still on the channel, and it's really annoying, because it's a stupid place. 20:59:45 But I can't just leave, since I never leave until I drop because of natural causes. 20:59:51 So I have to keep reading all the stupidity. 21:00:21 elliott: i think fizzie wants us to help crash his bouncer, or something 21:04:41 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 21:04:45 -!- nooga has joined. 21:05:27 fizzie: Install a system update and reboot 21:06:13 It would probably be a good idea, at some point. 21:06:34 If you have infinity=-infinity and -infinity*i = infinity*i, do you get a number donut? 21:13:52 I guess that's sort of like... a hyperbolic doughnut? since one side of the doughnut is 0 and the other is infinity, and the distance between the two has to be infinitely diverging...? 21:14:19 -!- TeruFSX_ has joined. 21:15:08 -!- atriq has joined. 21:15:53 Sgeo__: well those are both true in the gauss sphere, at least... 21:16:07 wait 21:16:27 *riemann sphere 21:16:44 Why is it a sphere and not a donut? 21:17:12 because you only add one infinity, which is all the numbers you mentioned 21:17:22 Ah 21:17:48 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riemann_sphere ohhh. is there a reason to distinguish i*inf from inf? 21:17:58 like, what's the reason Riemann put them together? 21:18:41 -!- FreeFull_ has joined. 21:19:34 -!- pumpkin has joined. 21:20:31 Fiora: well having just one infinity is basically what you need to do if you want to make f(z) = 1/z a well-behaved function over all of it, without adding extra zeroes as well... 21:21:02 would the "extra zeroes" be the alternate infinities? 21:21:36 You'd want 1/(i*inf) to be a different 0 from 1/(inf) I think 21:21:41 they would probably be infinitesimals, not infinities. 21:21:56 hmm. since complex numbers can be represented as magnitude * angle, wouldn't Sgeo__'s thing allow an infinite number of infinities? 21:22:02 since you could pick magnitude=inf, angle=anything 21:22:24 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 21:22:26 That would make inf =/= -inf I think 21:22:41 Might be wrong 21:22:44 I don't see why 1/x as x -> someinf would be different zeroes 21:22:48 Fiora: that would also split zeroes, which don't have a well-defined angle (and angles repeat every 2pi anyway) 21:22:54 -!- FreeFull has quit (*.net *.split). 21:22:55 -!- hogeyui has quit (*.net *.split). 21:22:55 -!- copumpkin has quit (*.net *.split). 21:22:56 -!- TeruFSX has quit (*.net *.split). 21:22:57 -!- pumpkin has changed nick to copumpkin. 21:22:59 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 21:23:03 -!- FreeFull_ has changed nick to FreeFul. 21:23:04 hmm, true 21:23:04 -!- FreeFul has changed nick to FreeFull. 21:23:05 but like 21:23:11 i*inf + inf 21:23:13 i*inf - inf 21:23:18 -i*inf + inf 21:23:21 -i*inf - inf 21:23:26 with sgeo's thing those would all be different right? 21:23:37 -!- sebbu has joined. 21:23:39 Fiora: Yes 21:23:55 But I don't see why the zeroes would be different 21:23:57 Fiora: the riemann sphere doesn't really allow you to add infinities usefully, though. it has limitations but is still useful for many things. 21:24:24 * Fiora was going with the doughnut thing 21:24:38 -!- Frooxius_ has joined. 21:27:00 -!- FireFly has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 21:27:07 Sgeo__: your idea looks like you want to add a circle of infinities, one for each angle, and then identify some of them. which should give you a donut/torus if you do it correctly. 21:27:35 no guarantees on it having any use for complex analysis, though. 21:27:59 Wait, since when is usefulness an important thing? 21:28:39 you'd want to identify all of the four infinity*(+-sqrt(2)/2 +- i*sqrt(2)/2) points, i think. 21:29:04 and otherwise identify the left and right arc, and the upper and lower arch. 21:29:57 by mirroring across the y and x axes, respectively. 21:30:44 (reflecting through 0 would give you the real projective plane instead, ignoring the sqrt(2)/2 parts.) 21:32:19 http://www.okcupid.com/profile/HorseEbooks 21:33:09 -!- atriq has quit (*.net *.split). 21:33:10 -!- epicmonkey has quit (*.net *.split). 21:33:10 -!- Frooxius has quit (*.net *.split). 21:33:12 -!- ssue has quit (*.net *.split). 21:33:13 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 21:33:16 -!- sebbu has joined. 21:33:43 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 21:33:43 -!- sebbu has joined. 21:34:12 Sgeo__: what i'm saying is that apart from infinity, -infinity, infinity*i and -infinity*i, the identified points would _not_ just be the negations. 21:34:26 -!- hogeyui has joined. 21:35:12 uh-oh 21:35:13 if you want a donut. 21:35:16 has sgeo been doing maths 21:35:30 yep 21:35:56 oh is he doing C/(x~-x) in an attempt to make a torus 21:37:01 Phantom_Hoover: well he didn't directly imply that, so i clarified that what he said could be extended to give a torus but not by identifying x and -x 21:37:21 wait i did that wrong anyway 21:37:40 well yeah he was only identifying infinities. 21:38:00 i guess that's what i deserve for trying to sound clever 21:38:41 happens to me too 21:40:15 -!- atriq has joined. 21:40:39 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 21:40:41 -!- ssue has joined. 21:40:57 did i tell you about that time i confused orientation, immersion and embedding in my analysis class 21:42:00 that sounds like just the thing to get your argument twisted into knots 21:42:25 (no) 21:42:30 A number of my friends have been asked "ham" on Tumblr 21:42:58 a major ham event, i take 21:43:10 Nobody knows (or nobody is forthcoming about) the identity of the perpetrator or perpetrators 21:43:30 maybe they're putting a 21:43:31 21:43:33 hex 21:43:34 on you 21:43:46 ... 21:43:57 no 21:43:57 I'm the only hammed person who lives in Hexham, to my knowledge 21:44:13 incidentally no:ham = en:him. 21:44:28 There's no ham en him 21:47:20 Hey, another Hexagon (isn't that the collective term for you?), I'll re-quote that one thing. Sorry if you logread. 21:47:23 "They were the pointed Saxon minuscules of the eighth or ninth century A.D., and brought with them memories of an uncouth time when under a fresh Christian veneer ancient faiths and ancient rites stirred stealthily, and the pale moon of Britain looked sometimes on strange deeds in the Roman ruins of Caerleon and Hexham, and by the towers along Hadrian's crumbling wall." 21:47:43 Are there many strange deeds in Hexham? 21:48:44 Yeah, all the time 21:49:26 Is your moon paler than other countries' moons? 21:49:36 A tad 21:50:17 the moon struck me as particularly bright tonight, actually 21:50:30 fizzie: Hexagon is the name of trondheim's gamer club, btw. if they still exist. 21:50:58 goodness, what are the odds of two people individually making up a word that weird 21:51:05 it's the biggest naming coincidence since dennis the menace 21:51:32 erm you do know it's the greek term for a six-edged polygon, right? 21:51:40 no 21:51:42 Phantom_Hoover is an idiot 21:51:43 hth 21:52:26 also a common shape of board game whatthehecktheyarecalled 21:53:06 also why isn't mezzacotta loading 21:53:59 Loads for me? 21:54:14 yay! 21:56:03 Board game game boards. 21:56:30 no, smaller than that. 21:57:07 Square? 21:57:14 cards? 21:57:17 dice? 21:57:23 boxes? 21:57:25 Hell Monopoly 21:57:35 atriq: that doesn't quite apply when they're hexagonal, does it? 21:57:41 Chinese Checkers but a Hexagon Instead of a Hexagram 21:57:45 don't say things like that, you know how atriq feels about monopoly 22:00:10 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Board_game#Common_terms seems to imply it is space/square or cell/hex, with no term being completely shape-independent 22:00:33 I say "square" is shape-independent 22:00:44 ok i guess space is closest 22:00:51 Because I'm a linguistic pragmatist 22:00:58 * oerjan says atriq needs a swat -----### 22:01:11 Ow! 22:01:29 that's a really weird shape for a flyswatter 22:01:32 just so you know 22:01:34 oerjan: Thery're the board's hexes when they're hexagonal. 22:03:15 Phantom_Hoover: it has occasionally gained extra parts 22:03:36 oh, it's one of those modular flyswatters? 22:03:59 We're in the future. 22:04:03 Everything's modular 22:04:07 Modules are modular 22:04:18 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 22:05:57 zomgmodules 22:06:21 * oerjan switches atriq's corpus callosum with Phantom_Hoover's 22:07:04 why 22:07:54 to see if they are properly exchangeable modules, of course! 22:07:56 where's zomgmodules 22:08:07 @where zomgmodules 22:08:07 I know nothing about zomgmodules. 22:08:22 Gregor ate him 22:08:29 This feels somewhat strange 22:09:36 I feel... 22:09:45 moderately more confident in my gender identity 22:10:05 ... because Gregor ate zomgmodules? 22:10:26 That too 22:10:53 More likely, because I know have Phantom_Hoover's corpus callosum 22:11:31 how do you know i'm moderately more confident in my gender identity 22:11:49 Well, now you're probably slightly less 22:11:56 You have my corpus callosum 22:11:57 for all you know i could be queer as a bag of lamps 22:12:20 You're forgetting one vital thing 22:12:28 I have your corpus callosum 22:12:32 I know 22:12:56 but a confident queer! 22:13:29 queer as a bag of lampreys 22:13:50 no, lampreys are notoriously rigid in their gender roles 22:13:52 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Boca_de_lamprea.1_-_Aquarium_Finisterrae.JPG click for nightmare 22:14:09 the kind that westboro baptist church members run screaming away from 22:14:27 http://i.imgur.com/nexHu.jpg 22:14:50 Oh, #esoteric . 22:14:53 * oerjan decides to click on neither link 22:14:53 I ♥ you. 22:15:42 confidently? 22:16:10 oerjan, first link is creepy, second link is someone counterprotesting the WBC 22:16:36 i almost feel bad linking the second because, don't feed the trolls 22:17:00 a big sign saying "fuck this guy" must have broad applicability, though. 22:17:04 yes 22:17:08 a handy thing to keep around 22:17:58 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 22:19:22 it's almost possible to believe that WBC is a brilliant false flag propaganda operation 22:19:45 and then you look at their legal history? 22:19:45 they are such an over the top repugnant caricature of anti-gay attitudes 22:20:08 and they go on about how god hates america and protesting soldiers' funerals and such 22:20:42 -!- heroux has joined. 22:20:52 Problem is, half of the US population seems to be a brilliant false-flag propaganda operation 22:21:01 fred phelps has a weird history 22:21:16 he used to be a civil rights lawyer 22:21:23 Did you see the Chasers sketch? 22:21:35 no 22:21:58 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7iXbWsO4ik 22:21:58 http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_RwdH5DTKRas/TMyECzLekvI/AAAAAAAADio/awRtOYwdvEM/s1600/god+hates+figs.jpg I like this one 22:22:12 yep 22:22:19 is that the part where jesus yells at a fig tree and it dies 22:22:35 yes 22:22:38 http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_RwdH5DTKRas/TMyEw-pli9I/AAAAAAAADiw/iYNSGP-bJJY/s1600/god+hates+figs+2.jpg 22:23:30 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 22:23:44 i wonder what is the point of including in the bible a story where jesus is a dick to a tree 22:23:57 does it serve some rhetorical purpose 22:24:27 maybe it's just one of those things stuck in to make the fans speculate wildly and write fanfiction about it 22:24:30 haha 22:24:38 "you mean the book of mormon?" 22:24:39 which never gets answered in canon 22:24:40 yes yes XD 22:24:44 man have you seen the new testament, it's full of crazy shit nobody reads 22:24:48 how'd we get here from lampreys 22:24:51 old testament* 22:24:58 "I like the books, but christianity has a /completely/ batshit fandom" 22:25:14 monday i found out there was a whole book i'd never heard of, that just says "god hates you you fucking shitheads" repeatedly for three pages and that's it 22:25:17 "they're almost as crazy as supernatural fans! jeez" 22:25:32 yeah it's great when christians advocate death penalty for homosexuality but ignore the next paragraph that prescribes death penalty for wearing the wrong fabrics or eating shellfish 22:25:45 also, the top weirdest bible story is the one with Zipporah and foreskins 22:25:57 I think they're misunderstanding the quote anyways. it says a man who lies with another man should be stoned 22:26:02 «On the way, at a place where they spent the night, the LORD met him and tried to kill him. But Zipporah took a flint and cut off her son's foreskin, and touched his feet with it, and said, "Truly you are a bridegroom of blood to me!" So he let him alone. It was then she said, "A bridegroom of blood by circumcision."» 22:26:13 the end 22:26:13 it's advising them that their sex is better while high, obviously 22:26:15 San Francisco: a man who lies with another man should get stoned 22:26:17 yessssss 22:26:36 Bike: wat 22:26:50 I think it says "A man who lies with men like he lies with women" 22:27:04 Which is rather specific if you think about it 22:27:06 kmc: exodus 4:24, look it up heathen 22:27:13 god hates only bisexuals 22:27:14 makes sense 22:27:18 male bisexuals, at that 22:27:33 in that sense god is in good company 22:27:45 male bisexuals who prefer specific sex positions, at that 22:27:50 heh 22:28:58 looooooooool 22:29:18 Male bisexuals who prefer specific sex positions, AND prefer to use the same sex positions with both sexes. 22:29:30 well that's what i meant by 'specific' 22:29:45 does the bible even say anything about non-heterosexual women? 22:29:52 Basically what God's saying is “treat men and women differently only when you fuck them” 22:29:53 so it's okay to get an anonymous bj at the train station, but you can't bring a guy home to cuddle 22:29:58 so... god is a closeted gay man? 22:30:00 Fiora: Nope. 22:30:08 Fiora, no, either because girl on girl is hot or because it was the past and they hadn't realised lesbians exist yet 22:30:20 (The former) 22:30:27 i remember reading the wp article about roman attitudes to sex, it's quite amusing 22:30:38 or because the parts in question are concerned with ritual cleanliness, and male priests have more opinions on anal than on scissoring 22:30:41 as a man, the most humiliating and taboo thing you could do was cunnilingus 22:30:48 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 22:31:00 Phantom_Hoover: but they still make a fuss about how horrible and sinful you are 22:31:02 didn't some english queen also say that there was no need to ban female homosexuality because it was logically impossible 22:31:06 well that's what i meant by 'specific' // it's specific in two ways: (1) it's a lying position, and (2) it's the same for both sexes 22:31:22 kmc, Victoria, I believe 22:31:25 oh, fair point 22:31:43 yeah that was my guess too 22:31:52 atriq, yeah, but what do you really think she was doing for those long years after albert died 22:32:10 Hunting down pirates with her bare hands? 22:32:24 no atriq that is probably one of those stupid things you like 22:32:30 and apparently somehow being asexual is sinful too or something I really don't know how this works 22:32:50 If asexuality is sinful then I am a sinner 22:33:02 * Fiora sinner high five? 22:33:03 depression's sinful too. medieval commentators just had not enough to do, I think. 22:33:17 * atriq sinner high five. 22:33:17 atriq: be fruitful and multiply! or whatever it says 22:33:48 Fiora, not aromantic, though, before that gets confusing 22:33:56 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 22:34:10 atriq: neither am I 22:34:13 if you lie with neither men nor women, I guess you lie with both the same way 22:34:21 (aromantic is ~20% of asexuals iirc) 22:34:49 About half of the vocal asexuals I've met are aromantic 22:35:08 Saying that, I've only ever met one other vocal asexual 22:35:13 All the asexuals are highly aromatic, however. 22:35:35 so the asexual you've met was half aromantic, or 22:35:37 atriq: http://www.asexualawarenessweek.com/census/SiggyAnalysis-AAWCensus.pdf 22:35:47 The stats there are really interesting 22:35:52 N=3430 22:36:44 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 22:37:16 question 15 is the best though ;) 22:38:20 N is not worth much without further information on the population 22:38:36 it's true, there's probably some pretty significant bias, though they also have some stats-breakdown among the three websites 22:38:45 to show possible disparities 22:40:04 there's a massive bias in gender ratio 22:40:52 I think that agrees with past studies though... 22:40:54 -!- atriq has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 22:41:08 (i.e. "most asexual people are female") 22:42:00 probably some bias from it being, like, tumblr though ^^; 22:42:02 agh, right, it's not a population sample 22:46:34 -!- Gregor has changed nick to BabsSeed. 22:47:13 http://mako.cc/copyrighteous/20121123-00 a nice article about how intellectuals compete to be ignorant of sports and how this isn't actually a good thing 22:48:16 you have a definite habit of dragging your pet peeves into the channel, you know 22:48:37 what kind of an animal is a peeve 22:48:58 One you don't want to meet. 22:49:00 * BabsSeed shudders. 22:49:56 would have expected the title of the paper to be "anything but rap and country", kmc 22:50:14 kmc: hmm, the statistics seem to be from the US ... I wonder how well they apply to other parts of the world 22:51:02 oh, and now I realized that "football" in the article probably refers to the other kind of football 22:51:03 Phantom_Hoover: yep 22:51:17 as it happened though someone else sent this link to another channel just now 22:52:12 i like kmc's complaining 22:52:18 gotta have some grumpy in your life 22:52:27 tho i produce enough for multiple people myself 22:54:31 oh, interesting that heavy metal is a "less educated" kind of music according to that paper, I find that about half of the geeks here are metalheads 22:55:00 yeah, that's why i expected rap and country, that's what i'm used to nerds not liking. 22:55:27 i love how in dwarf fortress the dorfs are always the 'mountain people', yet the game makes it impossible to actually embark on a mountain 22:56:21 kmc: you should fix mosh so that irssi doesn't underline these non-links imo 22:56:42 by fix I mean break mosh 22:56:44 to fix irssi 22:56:52 hmm, do you usually "embark" on mountains? 22:56:57 -!- BabsSeed has changed nick to Gregor. 22:56:58 also kmc does tend to complain about the same thing multiple times over the course of a week or so 22:57:20 olsner, not really, you can embark on hills but that's kind of different 22:57:29 actual mountains are all off-limits 22:57:33 Phantom_Hoover: well to be fair so do you 22:57:33 and me 22:57:34 and everyone 22:58:37 afaik you can only embark on journeys and vehicles 22:59:14 elliott, i don't really notice other people repeatedly complaining about the same thing? 22:59:34 like it's generally 'you know what bugs me? " and then everyone says 'yeah me too' and that's that 23:00:17 Bike: yeah me too 23:00:18 well maybe you will complain about kmc complaining again tomorrow and I will have a concrete example 23:00:21 i don't see the problem :p 23:00:34 to be fair I don't think this counts purely as repeated complaint, because kmc added new information to the sports-hate-peeve with a link 23:00:52 well true 23:01:13 it was just the point at which i felt it worth commenting on 23:05:09 also it's a different angle than my complaint 23:05:40 Bike: oh, the abstract of the paper says "gospel, country, rap, and heavy metal" 23:05:57 my complaint is just that being proud of ignorance is dumb, and hypocritical coming from intellectuals 23:06:11 mako's making a point about classism and stuff 23:06:26 test 23:06:28 and the resolution is different too 23:06:31 test2 23:06:35 mako takes this as an affirmative reason to care about sports 23:06:37 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:07:04 i don't care whether people care about sports 23:07:12 elliott: I am helping you test 23:07:12 but i will have to think about this class argument more 23:07:14 q 23:07:26 ugh, it did what I didn't want it to do 23:07:42 frustrating 23:07:42 hmm, anti-intellectualism seems a sort of similar thing 23:08:18 kmc: oh i know, i was just making a mostly irrelevant comment on an unimportant aspect like i usually do 23:08:48 also the mathiest guy i know is a basketball fan. maybe he can make up for my apathy to football 23:09:15 maybe i can pay kmc to fix this shit 23:09:42 or Phantom_Hoover 23:09:43 or olsner 23:09:45 someone volunteer 23:09:48 "this shit" == lambdabot? 23:09:52 no 23:09:55 lambdabot is just my helper 23:10:36 just use non-shit instead of shit, it's much less shittier 23:10:49 also non-shit doesn't need to be fixed by us 23:10:50 yes elliott i will fix lambdabot 23:10:58 i'm sure i don't need to explain why i'm a worthy candidate 23:11:00 apparently your shit is so shit it doesn't even tell me what shit it is 23:11:41 olsner: gonna sue your shit 23:14:51 goddammit 23:14:55 why the fuck does this stuff not make sense 23:15:21 I wonder why it doesn't respond to ctcp version, I have no recollection of configuring that 23:15:35 test 23:15:39 -!- boily has quit (Quit: Poulet!). 23:15:40 oh shit i fucked it up 23:15:45 test2 23:15:47 hm what 23:15:58 aaa 23:15:59 ok 23:16:08 elliott: im help 23:16:14 goddamn it didn't work 23:17:37 like 23:17:38 come on 23:18:34 elliott: what are you trying to do? 23:18:56 olsner: get my awaylog formatting not fucked 23:19:29 what's an awaylog and why do you have one? 23:20:30 i have determined that no amount of money will help olsner solve my problem 23:21:04 yay! 23:21:12 test 23:21:20 elliott: q 23:21:29 aight 23:25:55 -!- jfischoff has quit (Quit: jfischoff). 23:26:17 -!- elliott has quit (Quit: leaving). 23:26:40 btw i would like to express my deep hatred of differential equations 23:27:13 what did they ever do to you 23:28:02 -!- elliott has joined. 23:28:13 they bored me to tears 23:29:31 but what if you need to describe your tear to boredom ratio over time 23:29:39 bet a diffeq would help! 23:30:27 i'd give it to a damn engineer 23:31:00 that's what they're for after all 23:31:53 what if you were trapped on a desert island with only a bottle of tears and a wwii-era naval cannon aim control system 23:31:57 what would you model it with then! 23:32:26 you can model it with tears 23:32:59 -!- sebbu4 has joined. 23:33:32 -!- sebbu has quit (Disconnected by services). 23:34:46 -!- sebbu4 has changed nick to sebbu. 23:34:54 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 23:34:54 -!- sebbu has joined. 23:35:27 Bike, but there are no differential equations on the island to bore me to tears 23:35:38 the tears were pre-prepared 23:35:40 4 ur convenience 23:41:18 -!- augur has joined.