00:00:02 actually why would that be necessary... 00:00:10 -!- Robdgreat has left. 00:00:29 oh hm 00:01:07 ...there's not mascarpone on the wiki. 00:01:09 *no 00:01:17 http://catseye.tc/projects/mascarpone/README.markdown.html 00:02:23 oi elliott 00:02:26 it's tomorrow now 00:02:35 "New operations can be defined as strings of symbols, and these symbols are given meaning by an interpreter that is "captured" in the definition, similar to the way that lexical variables are captured in closures in functional languages." 00:03:13 Phantom_Hoover: yeah, gimme a few minutes 00:03:32 i think that means you can cheat by having it map to a function instead. 00:03:47 and i vaguely recall the implementation did that, or was it emmental... 00:04:07 well implementing emmental was surprinsigly easy 00:04:19 you just stored new symbols as a list of symbols 00:04:38 and when you're looking for the definition of a symbol, you look for it in the list of definitions 00:05:10 and when you've find it, you look for the definition of each symbol in the definition, in the tail of the list of definitions 00:05:21 mascarpone is slightly more tricky 00:05:35 I was planning to have some kind of functions yes 00:05:52 but it's all so abstract 00:05:59 this reminds me of some of ais523's problems with Feather. 00:06:18 that is also ridiculously meta-circular. 00:07:39 btw I have no idea what "the way that lexical variables are captured in closures in functional languages" is 00:08:31 can you tell me more about feather? 00:09:03 no, he can't 00:09:04 nobody can 00:09:09 `? feather 00:09:12 feather? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 00:09:17 not even hackego can 00:09:46 hahahahha 00:09:46 but seriously, feather's a vague concept wrapped in years of in-jokes 00:09:48 i think the meaning there is that interpreters "close over" operations in that you can't get the operation "out" of the interpreter except in the way specified in that interpreter's semantics 00:09:57 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 00:10:03 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 00:11:41 but it's the interpreter that is captured in the operation 00:12:22 oh, yeah, other way around 00:12:28 the way I see it an interpreter is a (symbol * operation list) list 00:13:00 and an operation is (symbol list) * interpreter 00:13:01 Arc_Koen: yeah that doesn't work for the bottom interpreter 00:13:10 yes 00:13:30 so interpreter would be something like Null | Initial | New of (symbol * operation list) list 00:13:39 so technically it's potentially not infinite 00:13:43 so that would be ok by me 00:13:51 but I have a hard time explaining that to ocaml 00:14:16 because there's no equivalent to the "let rec x = f(y) and y = g(x)" for types 00:14:44 that is, if I define operations first, ocaml is gonna tell me it doesn't know what "interpreter" means 00:14:44 it is probably better to see an operation as some function performing whatever action the operation actually should perform. 00:14:56 and i would guess that's what the implementation does. 00:14:56 yeah, ok, I'll try to do it that way 00:15:02 hm, perhaps i'm misunderstanding the page, but it seems just like reified environments 00:15:15 I don't want to look at chris' implementation before I do my own 00:17:04 wait, how do you put strings on the stack? 00:17:22 oh, wait, nevermind, it's obvious. 00:18:19 oi elliott it has been a few minutes 00:18:28 i want more minutes 00:21:49 btw the wiki seems to handle the /// page badly 00:22:16 that is, "Slashes" is the redirect and /// the page, so /// is categorized, but links to /// directly don't work 00:22:17 yeah, mw uses / for subpages 00:23:30 @tell atriq My son looks a bit like me, he can put away the plates after dinner now thanks to edwardk! <-- hum... 00:23:30 Consider it noted. 00:23:55 Arc_Koen: i sometimes nag elliott about that. 00:24:02 shachaf: someone is porting Mosh to AIX 00:24:10 ha 00:24:11 Phantom_Hoover: not in the main namespace of esolang 00:24:25 It's not about subpages. 00:24:29 It's about me being irresponsible. 00:24:38 Irresponsible 00:24:41 as long as we agree on that! 00:24:42 good name for an esolang 00:24:47 kmc: How's the Android port doing? 00:24:48 kmc: is mosh available for plan 9 yet 00:24:55 actually mosh does something that plan 9 should never be made to do 00:25:46 Arc_Koen: it used to work at the time /// was a featured language, but somehow it broke again. 00:25:49 shachaf: somebody has a fork of connectbot that does mosh 00:25:51 elliott: which 00:26:14 also did you see http://content.dell.com/us/en/enterprise/d/campaigns/xps-linux-laptop.aspx 00:26:21 kmc: which what 00:26:22 what if we tried \/\/\/ 00:26:27 oerjan: I broke it 00:26:27 it's an ultrabook-ish laptop from dell that comes with ubuntu 00:26:48 and is also like all cloud and shit 00:27:46 elliott: by upgrading, i assumed? 00:27:55 kmc: Yep. 00:28:02 What's with the resolution? 00:28:20 oerjan: no 00:28:24 oerjan: I changed the config 00:29:09 shocking! 00:29:25 Arc_Koen: "I'm actually not sure what concatenative exactly mean". it means that syntactic concatenation denotes semantic composition 00:29:38 oh 00:29:48 nothing more? 00:29:49 broadly, it means that if you get two valid programs and append their sources, the meaning of the resulting program is the function composition of those two programs 00:30:02 (in a traditional stack language, your semantics are a function from stacks to stacks) 00:30:02 'nothing more'? but that's cool 00:30:08 something something monoids 00:30:23 so if you have 3 3 + that's the composition of the program that takes a stack and pushes 3 to it, that same program again, and the program that takes two elements off the top of the stack, adds them, and pushes the result back 00:30:32 yes yes that's the idea in carriage 00:30:34 which gives you a program which pushes 6 to a stack 00:30:48 Bike: I don't think you need an identity for this to be well-defined, actually 00:30:53 just a semigroup 00:31:11 but I mean, apart from possible nameclashes in more complex languages 00:31:29 I think that many many languages are concatenative 00:31:30 no? 00:31:59 many actual real programming languages? 00:32:00 not really 00:32:20 I guess you can sort of argue that C is sort of concatenative kind of, but not really 00:32:47 am i concatenative 00:32:57 well the fact that you need a function called main is embarrassing 00:34:32 elliott why do i get the sense you are not doing anything relating to dwarf fortress 00:35:20 i guess ocaml fits better than C 00:35:38 Phantom_Hoover: a minute ok 00:35:39 !! 00:35:47 hm wait what about imports 00:35:55 or can ocaml have those anywhere 00:36:05 yes, anywhere 00:36:08 I'm pretty sure 00:36:23 haskell must have them at the top, alas 00:36:28 HAHA 00:36:30 and also has that pesky main 00:36:40 Ocaml is better than Haskell THERE YOU HAVE IT 00:36:57 haskell has a better name and logo though 00:37:16 i assumed that was so you could chase imports without reading the whole file 00:37:19 i am glad haskell makes you organise imports reasonably 00:37:25 oerjan: well haskell has to process modules to parse 00:37:27 because fixity 00:37:48 well that's a separate last parsing step now 00:37:59 so guys do you all know about alonzo church's son dating haskell curry's daughter 00:38:12 because everyone should know that 00:38:16 Phantom_Hoover: vaguely rings a bell 00:38:22 I think I've heard of it before 00:38:43 shachaf: you should be able to query the unicode character database via DNS 00:39:00 where are the CS paparazzi when you need 'em 00:39:05 (i think that was superturing's origin story) 00:39:50 wait 00:39:52 Phantom_Hoover: that is the coolest thing ever 00:39:55 kmc: Any idea why UnicodeData.txt is incomplete? 00:39:57 both superturing's parents are functional? 00:40:03 shocker 00:40:11 it is? 00:40:14 what do yo umean 00:40:33 Doesn't contain a bunch of codepoints. 00:40:48 Like U+3456 㑖 00:41:26 I'm referring to ftp://ftp.unicode.org/Public/UNIDATA/UnicodeData.txt 00:41:32 ah 00:41:37 Where else should I get my up-to-date Unicode information? 00:41:38 Qed. 㑖 00:44:14 That is a weird-looking character. 00:44:28 人 + 仲. Really? 00:44:42 huh 00:44:50 OK, 人 is also not in there. 00:44:58 (which is of course 人 + 中) 00:45:12 shachaf: The *hell*? 00:45:17 You'd think U+4EBA would be there, right? 00:45:28 It's missing all those what'sitcalled characters. 00:45:50 Yeah. 人 was definitely in the first Unicode version with CJK. 00:46:00 The typical kindergartner knows it. 00:46:08 Only some of these characters display here. :( 00:46:09 oh that's not actually a big box? 00:46:18 i guess i got a double width replacement box :3 00:47:35 pikhq_: Maybe it's just not part of UnicodeData.Txt 00:47:38 s/T/t/ 00:48:12 ftp://ftp.unicode.org/Public/UNIDATA/CJKRadicals.txt seems to have it. 00:48:28 Makes sense. It *is* a radical. 00:48:49 Can't I get one file with all the codepoints in a uniform format? 00:49:02 I thought UnicodeData.txt was supposed to be complete! 00:49:30 help 00:50:15 so elliott how 'bout that minute huh 00:50:56 how about some more minutes 00:51:20 zomg ftp://ftp.unicode.org/Public/UNIDATA/BidiMirroring.txt 00:51:23 kmc: ☝ 00:51:33 I feel like I should've known about that. 00:52:13 haha nice 00:52:47 wtf "PARAPHRASE BRACKET" 00:52:50 who uses that 00:56:09 ftp://ftp.unicode.org/Public/UNIDATA/NamesList.txt 00:56:12 Maybe that's the file I need. 00:56:23 Of course I'll need to write a more complicated program to process that. :-( 00:57:49 I'm not sure I understand what @/expand is for in macarphone. 00:58:13 i like the idea of a kid who loves Japan and always reads about Japan on the Internet (like you do) but doesn't have Japanese fonts 00:58:21 and so he thinks that Japanese people use a writing system where you put four hex digits in a box 00:58:24 and learns to read this 00:59:23 kmc: that sounds like the plot to a really bad short story 00:59:32 yeah 00:59:47 better as a minor character detail in a story 00:59:59 are the han characters in unicode ordered in any particular way? 01:00:05 by stroke or something 01:00:10 They're ordered by codepoint. 01:00:42 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:01:03 19F0KHMER SYMBOL TUTEYASAT * represents the second Ashadha in the lunar calendar during the Adhikameas leap year 01:01:06 This is great. 01:01:15 Lots of details UnicodeData.txt doesn't have. 01:01:43 @+These form a set of four quine corners, for quincuncial arrangement. They are also used in upper and lower pairs in mathematic, or more rarely in editorial usage as alternatives to half brackets. 01:01:43 Unknown command, try @list 01:01:52 what 01:01:58 -!- jfischoff has quit (Quit: jfischoff). 01:02:16 These form a set of four corner brackets and are used editorially. They are distinguished from mathematical floor and ceiling characters. Occasionally quine corners are substituted for half brackets. 01:02:48 thank you 01:03:17 This style is sometimes known as open-face or blackboard-bold. Double-struck symbols already encoded in the Letterlike Symbols block and omitted here to avoid duplicate encoding. Considerable variation in font style is acceptable, as long as the glyphs retain the visual element of doubled strokes. 01:03:34 1F374FORK AND KNIFE = restaurant, meal * glyph may show a fork and spoon * glyph may show a crossed fork and knife * glyph may show a fork and knife with a plate 01:04:26 i like all the emoticons, myself 01:04:35 iirc there are some ones for catgirlfaces 01:04:44 monqy: do you want to be in the succession fort...... 01:04:50 idk 01:05:55 monqy: :{ 01:06:45 kmc: that sounds like the plot to a really bad short story <-- reminds me of a part of the plot to a book series about swedish (i think?) immigrants to america. one guy got this swedish-english phrase book and learned it by heart. only when he tried to speak with americans did he discover that english isn't spoken as it is spelled. 01:07:30 But does the name list have 1F4A9 PILE OF POO? 01:08:02 = dog dirt 01:08:14 ook 01:08:54 1F4A0 DIAMOND SHAPE WITH A DOT INSIDE = kawaii, cute * meaning of cuteness is based on association of glyph with shape of a flower 01:10:11 oerjan: haha 01:12:17 💠 01:12:34 🍴 01:15:27 01:15:57 wtf 01:16:06 monqy: i want to start the fortress but it's impossible to play df properly without listening to its background music but i don't want to :{ 01:16:24 elliott: what if you get over your issue w/ its background music 01:17:19 those things take time, monqy 01:17:40 monqy: df has atmosphere 01:18:01 that explains why the dorfs don't all croak immediately 01:52:12 typical, i get at least 40 http://ompldr.org/vZ2kycw/iqtest.PNG 01:52:59 monqy: lens now allows you to implement unsafeCoerce 01:53:10 "exciting new feature?" 01:53:10 shachaf: yay! 01:55:20 and i can find no reasonably canonical interpretation that gives one of the numbers listed. 01:55:35 -!- madbr has joined. 01:55:41 I kinda wonder... are there any ARM systems-on-a-chip that can do über-low-latency sound processing? 01:56:06 (the question is "how many squares do you see", btw) 01:57:17 oerjan: I see 1024000 01:57:22 they're all very little 01:57:28 O KAY 01:57:46 madbr: there are SoC's with integrated DSP 01:58:23 oerjan: do 'you' get it 01:58:41 a combination of that and running a RTOS on the ARM part should suffice for many things 01:59:30 hmm 01:59:45 isn't the main CPU a lot faster? 01:59:57 depends what you are doing i guess 02:00:11 i don't know really 02:01:56 elliott: some small electric pixies explained it to me. 02:04:15 i wonder if i may be a housecat http://www.sheldoncomics.com/archive/121129.html 02:04:18 kmc: sound synthesis 02:04:55 physical modelling algo with a delay line, bandpass filter, nonlinearity, exciter plus a bunch of effects 02:06:09 -!- c00kiemon5ter has joined. 02:06:41 `welcome c00kiemon5ter 02:06:45 c00kiemon5ter: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 02:07:13 elliott, monqy Fiora there was an update a bit earlier 02:07:57 it has occured to me that the itflabtijtslwi deadfish could be converted to use decimal (and so allow bigger numbers) if i could just find a way to do multiplication in a fixed number of substitution commands. 02:08:05 ohai o/ 02:08:12 kmc: tbh I've never worked with DSPs 02:08:25 kmc : mostly because you never get access to them anyways 02:08:30 (on cell phones) 02:09:55 which i _think_ i can reduce to sorting a list of unary numbers 02:13:08 which i still don't know how to do. 02:21:26 yeah on cell phones it's almost impossible to get low latency 02:22:00 they are built for angry birds and youtube, not for music 02:22:17 (well, making music that is... consuming music is a-ok of course) 02:22:29 and even angry birds is a stretch 02:22:36 And they're not that good at any of it. 02:22:39 Welp, got my new business cards. 02:22:43 Printed on the back of playing cards. 02:22:52 Gregor: I saw. Those things are awesome. 02:23:19 I'm still unsure X-D 02:23:32 Shoulda made it pony themed. 02:23:48 Yeah, maybe not. 02:23:59 I think “they're playing cards” is plenty eccentric. 02:24:11 I mean "instead of playing cards". 02:24:34 can you actually play cards with 'em? 02:24:43 But whatever. There's many ways of being eccentric, and all of them pretty nice. 02:25:05 Bike: Yes. 02:25:16 Bike: Except that he won't have a deck for long. 02:25:28 That's ok, he can just downgrade to Pinochle. 02:26:01 It is a real, complete deck of playing cards, yes, but I don't intend to use them as such since that would defeat the whole “business card” thing ;) 02:29:43 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 02:35:42 -!- kmc has set topic: Hagfish are usually not eaten owing to their repugnant looks, as well as their viscosity and unpleasant habits. | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 02:36:47 The hagfish is kept alive and irritated by rattling its container with a stick, prompting it to produce slime in large quantities. This slime is used in a similar manner as egg whites in various forms of cookery in the region. 02:57:06 -!- Arc_Koen has quit (Quit: Comment on appelle un mec qui pilote un avion ?). 03:20:18 -!- jfischoff has joined. 03:28:09 -!- david_werecat has joined. 03:34:25 -!- sebbu has joined. 04:02:09 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Onght iodg). 04:18:20 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 04:21:23 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 04:31:30 "poëtic" 04:31:45 that is the most pretentious use of diæresis i have seen 04:31:47 Well, if "noël", why not "poëtic"? 04:32:02 i don't think even the new yorker would do that 04:32:11 Probably not. 04:32:18 kmc: Do you know of a good XCompose configuration file? 04:32:21 The excuse for "noël" is that it's spelled that way in French. 04:32:23 ISTR the default one is really awfully terrible. 04:32:43 http://mainisusuallyafunction.blogspot.com/2010/10/typing-mathematical-characters-in-x.html 04:33:03 the default one is pretty good as far as actual letters, i've found 04:33:06 mathematical characters such as ꙮ 04:33:34 I'll ask pikhq_ instead. 04:33:38 Hey pikhq_! 04:33:39 but i want to use e.g. da do de di for ♬♩♫♪ 04:33:53 shachaf: i don't have that one 04:34:04 i did add the unaccented greek alphabet though 04:34:20 kmc: How do you type ꙮ? 04:34:27 A66E? 04:36:04 copy pasta 04:36:12 elliott: you could use the spanish keyboard tbh 04:36:22 elliott: I use the default. 04:36:24 madbr: huh? 04:36:26 qwerty and has a lot of common accents 04:36:35 elliott: I guess I'll have to ask you if you find a better one. 04:36:37 that's not really my use-case 04:36:51 pikhq_: i think i found one that redid the whole thing from scratch with the one problem that i didn't like the combos it used 04:36:59 if you just want accented latin characters, the default xcompose is fine 04:37:35 don't think it covers vietnamese, but most european languages using the latin alphabet 04:37:37 Yeah. You can type "Erdős" just fine that way. 04:37:43 I would kind of like LaTeX support :P 04:37:44 yeah =o 04:37:47 faux-LaTeX that is 04:37:54 Doesn't do Vietnamese, yeah. 04:37:56 elliott: there's a gtk input mode 04:38:03 yeah but I think it's bad 04:38:05 = limited 04:38:05 or... whatever thingy gtk uses 04:38:07 yeah probably 04:38:18 insert gnome bashing here 04:38:22 mathematical characters like ☭ 04:38:39 'Course, Vietnamese is a Roman alphabet rendering stress test. 04:38:44 shachaf: you should write a c compiler named cccp 04:39:02 oh it is already a research group name 04:39:04 sigh 04:39:16 bet it's awkward when they get visiting postdocs from baltic states 04:39:18 kmc: how do you tell what Multi_key is in your setup, do you know? 04:39:31 well, it's just an X keysym 04:39:35 you can bind it with xmodmap 04:39:48 but i guess for the default you woud have to look in the keyboard layout definition files 04:39:57 mm... thanks 04:39:59 I suspect by default it's unbound. 04:40:16 probably 04:40:17 or just open xev and then mash all keys 04:40:22 It's Win here. 04:40:25 yeah that was my previous method 04:40:40 i already have win as hyper. i think i'm running out of weird modifier keys to use. 04:40:52 on thinkpads you can use Fn as Multi_key 04:40:54 i wonder what to put compose on 04:40:57 i use right-alt as my xmonad key 04:41:04 I guess I could use right win 04:41:04 because it sends a key event if you press and release it without pressing anything else 04:41:06 Right-win. 04:41:18 oh, it does? that's news to me 04:41:18 kind of awkward to press tho :( 04:41:30 i should buy a happy hacking keyboard so all the keys i can possibly press are readily accessible 04:41:43 Yeah, but composing glyphs is a relatively infrequent thing. 04:41:47 and switch to colemak and become a hermit and retreat into the antarctic wastelands and kill myself 04:41:49 i suppose i could use H-Menu instead of Menu for wm shit 04:42:33 i have left ctrl for opening browser tabs, left win for opening native apps, left alt for alt, right alt for WM actions, right win for Compose, and right Ctrl for nothing because it's a fucking pain to hit 04:42:48 i also have Fn send Esc if you press and release, but I don't use it much 04:42:51 elliott: Alas, I don't have the option. 04:42:54 there is a hack to use Caps Lock as both Ctrl and Esc 04:43:02 should switch to that 04:43:08 i mainly use Ctrl-[ for Esc these days 04:43:38 pikhq_: well antarctica is a little inaccessible I admit, but suicide? 04:43:55 elliott: I was referring to the entire list. 04:44:06 Suicide is essentially always an option, of course. 04:44:14 colemak is for people who think dvorak is too mainstream 04:44:35 what a terrifying thought 04:44:38 A profoundly suboptimal option, but nevertheless. 04:44:43 well if I am going to switch to an obscure keyboard layout 04:44:53 then I better switch to the one whose superiority to QWERTY I am most convinced of 04:45:22 i think it's pretty clear that both dvorak and colemak are superior to qwerty 04:45:46 oh, are there good studies now? 04:45:47 maybe colemak is slightly better than dvorak, maybe not, buti don't think it matters 04:45:54 kmc: I phrased it badly 04:46:00 and dvorak is much more standard 04:46:03 "I'd better switch to the one that I am most convinced is best" 04:46:25 well I don't use other people's keyboards very much but it's awkward enough to switch to Dvorak on those that I'd rather just remember how to type with QWERTY 04:46:34 it is not that awkward 04:46:48 if i have to use someone else's computer for more than 5 minutes i would usually want to switch it 04:46:56 I mean I already use xmonad and customise the programs I use fairly heavily 04:46:58 switching to dvorak takes about 30 seconds in most operating sysem 04:47:03 so someone else's computer is always going to be awkward 04:47:18 winter is always going to be cold so you might as well go outside naked 04:47:19 some people restrict themselves to almost-stock settings and the like to avoid that painfulness and that's fine but those aren't my priorities 04:47:58 kmc: I don't find the gain compelling enough for the (expected) loss in the vast majority of my computer-using time given that the scenario it helps with is already moderately painful 04:48:13 ok, fine 04:48:36 when i went to the computer store to evaluate laptop keyboards, it was very useful that i could switch them to dvorak 04:49:16 "i went to the [...] store" — kmc, noted jokester 04:49:17 -!- sebbu has joined. 04:49:32 idgi 04:49:37 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 04:49:37 -!- sebbu has joined. 04:52:37 idgieither 04:52:38 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 04:53:11 kmc: yo I'm gonna practice being a keyboard nerd since I know quite a fair bit about keyboards and it'd be a shame not to turn this knowledge into smugness: 04:53:20 kmc: you don't have to type on laptop keyboards to know they're all shit 04:53:32 hehe 04:53:40 sure but i still want to know which one is least shit 04:54:00 kmc: You should get a Model M. 04:54:04 model ms suck 04:54:05 "the one true keyboard?" 04:54:07 well they don't suck 04:54:10 but they're seriously overrated 04:54:10 model m = the future 04:54:15 (I typed on a Model M for >a year) 04:54:43 agree 04:54:58 i used a real model m for a few years and a unicomp model m clone for a few more 04:55:23 even ignoring practical constraints like it has a ton of useless keys and is fucking huge and makes a racket, the buckling springs are just way too heavy really 04:55:42 unless you have mechanical fingers of steel or whatever I'm pretty sure another keyboard will be better for typing 04:56:04 useless keys? 04:56:11 but it's the mythical keyboard of Real Hackers from before I was born so it must be good 04:56:24 You know what's overrated? 04:56:29 Not having → and End keys. 04:56:32 Calling things overrated? 04:56:36 meh screw keyboards, you should become a gun nerd 04:56:52 there you can argue the superiority of designs almost 100 years old 04:57:00 kmc: it's probably easier to kill people with a model m than a gun 04:57:12 call the mythbusters 04:57:23 this seems like a good time to bring up how much I fucking loathe numpads 04:57:27 and wish they would retroactively never have existed 04:58:15 shachaf: oh got yeah I can't live without home/end 04:58:36 I have to admit that numpads... suck 04:58:57 elliott: They're there for those people that want to input lots of numbers but can't be bothered to learn to touch type. 04:59:01 i.e. morons 04:59:16 well for spreadsheets/accounting and stuff I assume they are more efficient than the numpad 04:59:21 if you only input numbers all day, presumably it is less finger movement 04:59:22 yeah 04:59:22