00:00:03 not really no.. at least not for now 00:00:21 @hoogle f a -> f b -> f (a,b) 00:00:22 Data.Sequence zip :: Seq a -> Seq b -> Seq (a, b) 00:00:22 Prelude zip :: [a] -> [b] -> [(a, b)] 00:00:22 Data.List zip :: [a] -> [b] -> [(a, b)] 00:00:25 you can just define an operator for it if you want 00:00:35 wrong function 00:00:38 yea 00:00:39 with idiom brackets it'd be (| (a,b) |) :P 00:01:01 Would it really? 00:01:11 something like that 00:02:09 @hoogle Applicative f => f a -> f b -> f (a,b) 00:02:09 Data.Sequence zip :: Seq a -> Seq b -> Seq (a, b) 00:02:10 Prelude zip :: [a] -> [b] -> [(a, b)] 00:02:10 Data.List zip :: [a] -> [b] -> [(a, b)] 00:02:17 bad hoogle 00:02:53 zzo38 has been suggesting this function, i think :) 00:03:07 it's an alternative base function for applicatives 00:03:39 If you are doing applicative (not zip) then for f a -> f b -> f (a,b) you will have uncurry liftPair or liftA2 (,) 00:04:00 and more connected to the category theory way of looking at it. 00:04:02 I called it the liftPair which I think should be one of the class methods for Applicative 00:04:35 thx a lot 00:04:59 @hoogle (><) 00:04:59 Test.QuickCheck.Arbitrary (><) :: (Gen a -> Gen a) -> (Gen a -> Gen a) -> (Gen a -> Gen a) 00:04:59 Test.QuickCheck (><) :: (Gen a -> Gen a) -> (Gen a -> Gen a) -> (Gen a -> Gen a) 00:04:59 Data.Graph.Inductive.Query.Monad (><) :: (a -> b) -> (c -> d) -> (a, c) -> (b, d) 00:05:41 >< is used, but not in a very basic library, i think 00:10:14 -!- soundnfury has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 00:13:12 -!- soundnfury has joined. 00:20:33 -!- nooodl__ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 00:27:28 -!- jfischoff has joined. 00:58:27 -!- myndzi\ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 00:58:55 -!- myndzi\ has joined. 01:09:04 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:23:42 what 01:23:43 what 01:23:56 I just begin to watch the next stargate episode 01:24:07 and it started by a "previously in stargate sg-1..." 01:24:09 and 01:24:18 WHAT THE HECK OF A SPOILER IS THAT THAT'S CERTAINLY NOT PREVIOUS 01:24:36 cute ewoks coming out of everywhere 01:24:43 weeee arrrre the fuuurrrrrlings 01:24:52 daniel jackson: we finally get to meet you! 01:24:54 doing that for a time travel episode would be a mindscrew 01:24:57 I THOUGHT THEY DIDN'T EXIST 01:25:03 haha 01:25:11 yeah it would 01:25:41 I think there was a series called "stargate gravity" that was canceled very early because it was too much of a mindscrew 01:25:46 ihavetofindthat 01:25:57 anyway, back to episode *hoping it's a joke* 01:26:35 . 01:26:43 (it is) 01:33:57 Arc_Koen: regarding your last edit, if it's like haskell -rectypes is only needed when there is no named constructor between a type and its recursed appearance. 01:34:21 (well haskell doesn't have -rectypes, but that's when you get an error.) 01:34:36 Arc_Koen: that episode was awesome. 01:35:46 value constructor, that is. 01:36:41 so if you removed _both_ "A of" and "B of", it would be needed, but having at least one of them is enough. 01:42:22 -!- myndzi\ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 01:46:57 wine doesn't provide any isolation against malicious windows programs right 01:47:03 like they can still execute native linux syscalls i think 01:48:10 are you asking because your system has been compromised by a Fallout crack 01:49:04 it hasn't been compromised yet ;) 01:49:49 Fallout for DOS, right? 01:50:06 kmc: What's with the dosbox and WINE thing? 01:52:07 well you see 01:52:12 i am excited about grand theft auto v 01:52:18 coming out next year 01:52:26 so i decided to play grand theft auto i in dosbox 01:52:31 but i realized it sucks 01:52:43 so now i am trying to play san andreas in wine 01:54:50 great i'm supposed to get wine from multiarch now 01:54:59 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:55:02 How do you get WINE in Debian anyway? 01:55:04 i'm sure this will not in any way ruin my entire system and cause apt to segfault randomly like last time 01:55:10 shachaf: the usual way? 01:55:57 Hmm. 01:56:09 At one point the package wasn't available in testing. 01:56:16 Even though it was in stable and unstable. 01:56:19 Looks like it's back. 01:56:28 I still get that issue occasionally with other packages. 02:03:26 -!- PieBotN has joined. 02:06:11 i love how allegedly wine can run all of these different programs but the only one i can actually run is starcraft 02:06:23 i think wine may secretly be a cleanroom reimplementation of starcraft 02:06:51 Hmm, WINE ran Red Alert 3 better than Windows for me at one point. 02:07:01 oh nice 02:07:09 i guess i did run about half of deus ex too 02:07:12 didn't totally work 02:07:28 It also ran a bunch of other things. 02:07:34 Diablo II worked well. 02:08:12 addquote i love how allegedly wine can run all of these different programs but the only one i can actually run is starcraft i think wine may secretly be a cleanroom reimplementation of starcraft 02:08:24 860) i love how allegedly wine can run all of these different programs but the only one i can actually run is starcraft i think wine may secretly be a cleanroom reimplementation of starcraft 02:09:10 Shattered Galaxy worked in WINE for me some years ago 02:09:21 ...the UI looks like Starcraft, I think 02:09:59 are you sure you weren't actually playing starcraft 02:10:35 oerjan: hmm, right 02:10:43 wtf I tried going to wine.appdb.com derp 02:11:05 that seems like a very primitive way to recognize troublesome recursive types 02:11:18 http://appdb.winehq.org/appimage.php?iId=12758 02:11:30 especially for a language like Ocaml which is supposed to be good at that kind of stuff 02:11:57 Bike: yeah it was great :) 02:12:03 it didn't really have an ending though 02:12:11 and it felt really really short 02:12:23 Arc_Koen: well the thing i've heard is that if you don't have that rule, you very often get things that type well if you leave out arguments 02:12:54 can you rephrase? 02:13:00 I'm notsure I understand 02:13:20 missing or extra arguments to functions often end up not giving type errors if you allow recursive types. 02:13:29 Wait, does Starcraft look like that image? I've never actually played 02:13:39 oh, right 02:13:57 yes for instance with "('a -> 'a) as 'a" 02:14:00 yeah 02:15:08 so it's not about preventing nonsensical data structures? 02:15:26 for haskell, they have newtype which always compiles as no extra overhead, so it's not _necessary_ to use recursive types for anything. 02:16:01 for instance if you define type 'a endless = 'a * 'a endless 02:16:51 i guess it prevents nonsensical data structures too, although in haskell data Stream a = Stream a (Stream a) is a perfectly useful type for always infinite lists 02:17:30 and more or less the same as what you wrote, underneath 02:17:37 # type a = a;; 02:17:37 Error: The type abbreviation a is cyclic 02:17:38 # type a = A of a;; 02:17:38 type a = A of a 02:17:56 soooooooooo not so useful after all 02:18:24 oh, wait, it works 02:18:31 let rec x = A x 02:19:47 yeah ocaml has special support for cyclic constants 02:20:34 :k Mu 02:20:36 (* -> *) -> * 02:20:59 > fix (Mu . Identity) 02:21:01 Not in scope: data constructor Mu' 02:21:24 > fix (Fix . Identity) 02:21:26 Not in scope: data constructor Fix' 02:21:29 kmc: Is Starcraft good? 02:21:33 Are there any good RTSes? :-( 02:21:35 darn what was it called 02:22:07 @type In 02:22:08 f (Mu f) -> Mu f 02:22:16 that? 02:22:18 oh right 02:22:24 @src Mu 02:22:24 newtype Mu f = In { out :: f (Mu f) } 02:22:34 > fix (In . Identity) 02:22:35 No instance for (GHC.Show.Show 02:22:35 (Data.Functor.Identity.I... 02:22:36 @src Rec -- better?? 02:22:36 Source not found. Just what do you think you're doing Dave? 02:22:41 bah 02:22:43 I guess not. 02:22:48 > fix (In . Just) 02:22:50 In (Just (In (Just (In (Just (In (Just (In (Just (In (Just (In (Just (In (J... 02:23:17 In? 02:23:20 In. 02:23:21 Oh 02:23:44 @ty InR 02:23:46 (Rec a -> a) -> Rec a 02:23:51 better than In?? 02:24:40 shachaf: not the same purpose 02:24:54 oerjan: "better" is a total ordering on all objects. 02:24:58 -!- zzo38 has joined. 02:25:34 For example, InR is better than In, and In is better than bell peppers 02:26:47 objects that think "better" is not a total ordering on all objects are better than objects that think "better" is a total ordering on all objects 02:27:18 Objects that don't think are better than both of those. 02:27:27 I think "better" is not even a partial ordering 02:27:38 also, i like bell peppers 02:27:51 I also think "better" is not always transitive. 02:28:04 zzo38, is a computer that works not better than a broken computer? 02:28:13 Caltrain is not always transitive. :-( 02:28:30 Sgeo: depends. was it trying to kill you before it broke? 02:29:03 oerjan: Good point I suppose. 02:29:17 However, I meant is not *always* transitive; it is sometimes transitive. 02:31:25 if x <= y or y <= x always holds, then any three objects must have some transitivity among them. 02:32:46 (clarifying and then proving the above statement left as an exercise.) 02:34:33 Well, in a partial ordering and in a total ordering you would have if x<=y and y<=x and x=y. A partial ordering is the same as a thin category, isn't it? 02:35:08 (They may be different even though equal, I guess?) 02:35:18 Also, what is better than something else, also means, is better in what way? 02:37:40 @quote edwardk ieee 02:37:40 edwardk says: type level ieee floats are a crime against nature. i had to implement them in c++ for template meta programming once. never ever again 02:37:45 kmc: See what you're missing? 02:38:20 Actually I've been getting more annoy{ed,ing} lately where #haskell is concerned. 02:38:37 The other day shapr told me I was being too negative. 02:40:53 shapr hasn't broken long ago? 02:40:57 shachaf is becoming kmc? 02:41:51 Maybe there should be that a instance can be designated "evil" which indicates that it is not completely mathematically correct, and that derived instances from evil instances also are called evil; for example, instances such as (Num Float) and so on have this designation. In case of optimization of mathematical laws (if any), they can be omitted. 02:42:22 So due to this it would apply also to (Monoid (Sum Double)) and so on since rounding errors can cause the result to be wrong. 02:48:54 Do you know of chess variant involving Scrabble tiles as the pieces? (There is the number in the corner, which can be used to tell which direction it is facing, if you like.) 02:54:44 "how is it that you are alive when everyone else on the planet was killed?" "I was protected by this" *points at her necklace* *camera zooms in to display necklace + cleavage* ... *camera stays on cleavage* ... *camera still on cleavage* 02:55:18 scifi.jpg 02:55:41 *camera won't move because now the camera men is killed too 02:55:50 haha 02:56:39 seriously the necklace thing is just there for fanservice 02:58:45 you can't expect the lead female opposing character to die in the first scene just because of jewelry 03:02:18 http://i.imgur.com/97PdF.jpg 03:02:22 (found on Reddit) 03:10:09 :t to 03:10:10 Gettable f => (s -> a) -> (a -> f a) -> s -> f s 03:11:47 -!- TheSmooze has changed nick to WindWhistler. 03:13:22 -!- WindWhistler has changed nick to Gregor. 03:16:19 :t over mapped 03:16:34 >_> 03:17:07 foo :: (a -> b) -> [a] -> [b]; foo f xs = over mapped f xs is even compiled into foo = map! 03:18:14 > "hm..." 03:18:23 mueval: ExitFailure 1 03:18:23 mueval: Prelude.undefined 03:18:25 thread killed 03:18:34 :( 03:18:38 :t over mapped 03:18:40 oerjan: I messed things up a little bit in the other channel. 03:18:46 19:11 @@ @echo @echo @echo @echo @echo @echo @echo @echo @echo @echo @echo @echo @echo @echo @echo @echo @echo @echo @echo @echo 03:18:47 Functor f => (a -> b) -> f a -> f b 03:18:52 19:13 "whoops" 03:19:16 * oerjan swats shachaf -----### 03:19:29 oerjan: Isn't it great, though! 03:19:37 yay! 03:19:49 oerjan: There are a lot of unsafeCoerces in lens to make it happen. 03:21:59 -!- jfischoff has quit (Quit: jfischoff). 03:25:21 :t from 03:25:46 *chirp* 03:25:53 from 03:25:53 :: forall r. 03:25:53 Isomorphic r => 03:25:53 Isomorphism (B r) (A r) (T r) (S r) -> r 03:26:01 bats 03:26:29 wtf 03:26:45 thread killed 03:26:54 oerjan: We could sure use a nicer Iso. :-( 03:27:11 It is becoming obvious that I don't understand delimited continuations as well as I thought 03:27:33 he said, before his brain exploded. 03:27:47 shachaf: quote that and not the other one? 03:27:53 the anon one 03:27:57 of COURSE, if I just shift into four day cubic time then *boom* 03:27:58 elliott: ? 03:28:14 elliott: Oh, I just gave the answer to oerjan's question. 03:28:20 anon 03:28:20 :: forall r. 03:28:20 (Isomorphic r, S r ~ Maybe (A r), T r ~ Maybe (A r), B r ~ A r) => 03:28:20 A r -> (A r -> Bool) -> r 03:28:51 (AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA) 03:28:55 @Arr 03:28:57 @Arrr 03:29:22 Maybe you meant: arr yarr 03:29:22 Aye Aye Cap'n 03:29:34 what are S, T, A, B 03:29:40 :t (^.) 03:29:48 s -> Getting a s t a b -> a 03:29:56 monqy: its what you get 03:30:09 no thats s t a b 03:30:15 a s t a b 03:30:20 monqy: aren't you ready to get a s t a b..... 03:30:24 this is S T A B............................... 03:30:29 theyre type families 03:30:29 S = s 03:30:39 monqy: haskell = casein sensitive 03:31:10 shachaf: how cheesy 03:31:30 OK, fine. 03:31:33 That's a lie. :-( 03:32:32 in fact haskell pays no attention to cheese at all 03:32:57 Depends on the cheese. 03:33:21 oerjan: You know the thing that's called "bulgarian cheese" in Hebrew? 03:33:28 ...no. 03:33:36 elliott: why would people name their type families S T A B 03:34:00 monqy: elliott just got startled 03:34:02 monqy: it's a very dysfunctional family 03:34:11 monqy: some people know no taste. sooner or later they'll be getting a s t a b 03:34:23 shachaf: do you know ? 03:34:30 monqy: know what 03:34:35 why its S T A B 03:34:54 oh 03:35:00 S is a reference to s 03:35:03 T is a reference to t 03:35:07 A is a reference to a 03:35:11 B is a reference to c 03:35:15 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:35:30 help :( 03:35:54 obvyusly 03:35:56 monqy: class Isomorphic r where iso :: (S r -> A r) -> (B r -> T r) -> r; type S; type T; type A; type B 03:36:07 "um....." 03:36:13 monqy: class Isomorphic r where iso :: (S r -> A r) -> (B r -> T r) -> r; type S r; type T r; type A r; type B r 03:36:37 type family CoalgebraicA (x :: *) :: * 03:36:37 type family CoalgebraicB (x :: *) :: * 03:36:38 type family CoalgebraicF (x :: *) :: * -> * 03:36:44 type instance CoalgebraicA (a -> f_b) = a 03:36:44 type instance CoalgebraicB (a -> f b) = b 03:36:44 type instance CoalgebraicF (a -> f b) = f 03:36:52 instance (Functor f, x ~ (a -> f b), y ~ (s -> f t)) => Isomorphic (x -> y) where type S (x -> y) = CoalgebraicA y type T (x -> y) = CoalgebraicB y type A (x -> y) = CoalgebraicA x type B (x -> y) = CoalgebraicB x iso sa bt afb s = bt <$> afb (sa s) 03:37:08 glad we got that cleared up. 03:37:09 i think shachaf is going critical. RUN! 03:37:34 oerjan: "don't worry it's constructive criticism" 03:37:45 quote critcism 03:37:49 No output. 03:37:50 quote criticism 03:37:54 175) Thanks to nooga for constructive criticism, his ideas and being a constant annoyance. --http://theendisnear.no-ip.info/ \ 720) elliott: Anyway, if you wrote a Haskell book, I would read it and possibly provide classical criticism. That is to say, non-constructive. 03:38:00 imo 720 03:38:44 international mathematics olympiad 720 03:39:03 *al 03:39:17 olympial 03:39:33 Do you like this? http://www.chessvariants.org/index/msdisplay.php?itemid=MSalienandpredat 03:39:42 It's a very good URL. 03:39:49 Do you like my other symmetric variants too? 03:39:51 It has almost all the components. 03:40:02 Variants? 03:40:12 microsoft aliens sound scary 03:40:13 shachaf: I don't mean the URL; I mean the game written by the rules described on that HTML page. 03:40:21 What page? 03:40:22 Oh! 03:40:28 You want me to send an HTTP GET request. 03:40:31 I get it now. 03:40:33 oerjan: I think "MS" stands for "member submission". 03:40:37 shachaf: Yes. 03:40:50 oh it was submitted by alien members, ok 03:42:04 monqy: you should take the bus to san francisco 03:42:06$1! 03:42:09 Other games I made which is symmetric variant of asymmetric game, is: http://www.chessvariants.org/index/msdisplay.php?itemid=MStworingchess http://www.chessvariants.org/index/msdisplay.php?itemid=MSsymmetricsnark http://www.chessvariants.org/index/msdisplay.php?itemid=MSsymmetricmonst 03:42:26 Microsoft symmetric snark? 03:42:49 shachaf: it's what happens when their tech support goes _really_ wrong 03:44:26 zzo38: btw asymmetric ≻ symmetric 03:48:18 ok i got GTA San Andreas to run in Wine 03:48:54 I have also, in comments on other pages, proposed symmetric variant of Angels and Devils. 03:49:16 it works pretty well except that the world is filled with huge flickering multicolored polygons, and every object casts a trail of flame against the sky 03:49:26 so i'm just going to play as if my character is tripping on acid 03:50:14 kmc: Did you know conal lives in San Andreas? 03:50:32 maybe 03:50:33 -!- Arc_Koen has quit (Quit: Arc_Koen). 03:51:00 kmc: Isn't that how you play "real life" too? 03:52:42 not really 04:01:31 kmc isn't real. 04:02:00 kmc: should I learn Agda 04:02:40 yeah 04:02:57 There are different definitions of "astrological age" which is not agreed on. As far as I know two is possible: [1] The constellation of the vernal equinox point. [2] The negative of ayanamsha. In the second case, you have to know what the reference date is! 04:03:06 elliott: wait, you haven't already? 04:03:08 I thought Agda was just Haskell with fancy types and ":" instead of "::". 04:03:31 oerjan: well I "know" it 04:03:41 oerjan: i can't read their freaky unicode proofs 04:03:53 (have you seen them) 04:04:22 i ... am not sure. 04:04:42 Agda is also require Unicode. 04:04:48 I don't like that. 04:04:57 actually agda does not require unicode at all 04:05:17 The worse part is that you have to use Emacs. :-( 04:05:24 (It's actually not that bad.) 04:06:53 Haskell does not require Unicode, but it does supports it. Some libraries do have names only using non-ASCII, and GHC has no way to enter the name using Punycode or something like that! 04:07:11 agda does not require unicode 04:07:21 shachaf: do you know of any agda-mode docs 04:07:33 elliott: Yes. 04:07:39 C-h C-something 04:07:50 that's not good docs 04:07:57 :( 04:08:13 They're not terrible either. 04:08:13 try C-h m to get the mode's online documentation. 04:08:23 "online documentation" 04:08:29 Bike: It's useless. 04:08:33 Bike: Also, "online documentation", really. 04:08:43 shrug. 04:08:51 elliott: Do you use emacs for anything else? 04:08:55 yes 04:08:56 sometime 04:08:56 s 04:09:28 You just have to know Emacs. 04:09:47 elliott: btw colenses are pretty cool right?? 04:09:56 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 04:09:57 I'm kind of annoyed at how ugly Isomorphic etc. are. 04:09:59 shachaf: yo is there something like http://www.cse.chalmers.se/~nad/listings/lib/Category.Functor.html in the stdlib but that encodes the laws 04:10:02 or do i gotta write this shit mysel 04:10:03 f 04:10:04 welcome epicmonkey 04:10:07 epicmonkey: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 04:10:09 http://blog.opensourcenerd.com/i-can-haz-virus this person seems to have some serious misunderstandings about what wine does and doesn't provide 04:10:39 They should add a pragma in GHC to allow you to write the names in ASCII, by specifying the quoted string of the Unicode name, and the unquoted name in ASCII; the first letter/symbol must have the same case. It also allow to specify alternative names for constructors, even if it is already ASCII. 04:10:45 also lol @ the many commenters who think the difference between user account and root on a linux desktop is super important 04:11:19 elliott: https://github.com/copumpkin/categories/blob/master/Categories/Functor/Core.agda 04:11:44 shachaf: I... don't want to use that. 04:11:52 that is a really pervasive bit of cargo cult security 04:11:54 elliott: Good thinking. 04:12:02 it took me many years to realize how wrong it is 04:12:13 how do i type the fancy l 04:12:14 for levels 04:12:46 "\ell" 04:13:05 i forget how emacs/agda-mode does its thing 04:14:44 ℓ? 04:14:50 What does that mean? 04:15:42 yeah that one 04:15:45 oh \ell works 04:15:54 shachaf: does cabal install agda get me the stdlib 04:15:57 or do i have to do my own stuff 04:16:13 elliott: I think it works? 04:16:17 elliott: "try it out" 04:16:27 elliott: Also you didn't answer my question. 04:17:14 what 04:17:18 what 04:18:31 Is there any 3D modeling that you can write x^2+y^2+z^2=25 and it will work? 04:19:28 what's the composition law for functors called 04:20:56 I don't know if it is called anything other than a composition law for functors. 04:21:46 shachaf: It doesn't find the stdlib. 04:23:21 elliott: Try apt-get install agda 04:23:30 apt-get install agda-stdlib 04:24:02 apt-get command not found 04:24:06 -- my computer dot com 04:24:12 The "wgpluck" command in Csound seem to be good quality of plucked string sounds. 04:39:43 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 04:41:00 Do you have reverb files for Stonehenge? 04:52:46 Are there samples of wgpluck somewhere? 04:54:09 ion: I don't know of any, but if you have Csound you can use the examples in http://www.csounds.com/manual/html/wgpluck.html 04:54:22 You can use it with real-time or you can send output to a sound file if you want that. 04:55:30 I also find using "wguide1" with PhISEM opcodes makes a nice sound too (although not a plucked string sound) 04:59:13 alright 05:01:23 -!- lambdabot has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 05:01:35 ion: Do you need samples of Csound? 05:01:58 I already installed it and listened to them. 05:05:54 -!- lambdabot has joined. 05:12:47 -!- PieBotN has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:22:46 -!- elliott has quit (Quit: Reconnecting). 05:22:56 -!- elliott has joined. 05:23:40 -!- elliott_ has joined. 05:26:24 score 05:26:26 ------- 05:26:29 elliott 05:27:50 -!- jfischoff has joined. 05:51:59 -!- elliott_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:52:20 -!- kallisti has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 05:52:46 -!- elliott_ has joined. 05:55:17 -!- ogrom has joined. 05:56:03 -!- elliott_ has quit (Client Quit). 05:58:37 -!- kallisti has joined. 05:58:37 -!- kallisti has quit (Changing host). 05:58:37 -!- kallisti has joined. 06:07:32 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 06:10:29 -!- kallisti has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 06:12:51 -!- ogrom has left ("Left"). 06:21:08 http://whyismarko.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/food-nativity.jpg 06:22:10 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 06:22:33 -!- kallisti has joined. 06:22:33 -!- kallisti has quit (Changing host). 06:22:33 -!- kallisti has joined. 06:23:51 kmc: More like #messoteric, right? 06:24:12 elliott: what was monqy doing in #haskell 06:24:24 @ask monqy elliott: what was monqy doing in #haskell 06:24:24 Consider it noted. 06:24:47 :'( 06:24:53 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:30:18 -!- ashet4 has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 06:30:49 -!- sebbu has joined. 06:31:09 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 06:31:09 -!- sebbu has joined. 06:34:39 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 06:38:13 -!- Gregor has set topic: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ | /topic: the new way to chat | How arre you? | *-r. 06:51:55 -!- ashet4 has joined. 07:02:47 -!- evincar has joined. 07:04:00 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 07:06:02 -!- elliott has set topic: MEGA EXTRA SUPER FOREVER | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 07:06:14 -!- elliott has set topic: qqqqq | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 07:15:12 -!- Mathnerd314 has joined. 07:22:51 I disagree with your chosen amount of Qs. 07:23:23 -!- shachaf has set topic: @ask monqy http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 07:23:28 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 07:24:47 -!- elliott has set topic: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 07:27:30 -!- FreeFull has quit. 07:28:24 I am a train. There's a wireless network in the train! 07:28:39 I'm just not getting usd to this. 07:29:13 Getting used to being a train may be difficult, but with the right attitude you can! 07:29:43 At least it gives me consolation that the connection is terribly laggy. 07:29:46 -!- shachaf has set topic: http://cоdu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 07:29:47 getting USD for being a train may be even more difficult 07:30:32 olsner: I don't know, you could rent yourself out to someone who needs a train for \$ars. 07:30:56 as I understand it, the money doesn't go to the train but usually to the owner of the train 07:31:25 So... that would conventionally be my wife, I guess? 07:32:05 addquote I am a train. There's a wireless network in the train! 07:32:16 861) I am a train. There's a wireless network in the train! 07:32:29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_trains_owned_by_wifes 07:32:35 "wives", olsner 07:33:12 indeed 07:33:13 Oh, the train is also going to Turku, city of oklopol. I think. 07:33:28 are you going to meet oklopol 07:34:26 I hope not, I'm not sure I'm prepared for that. 07:34:39 how can you pass up the opportunity 07:34:43 I will be around what I think is his university, though. 07:34:48 -!- jfischoff has quit (Quit: jfischoff). 07:37:50 Oh no, this is stupid. I have this bluetooth headset that can be used as a regular headset with a cable, but when the battery is completely out (like now) it won't switch to the regular-headset mode. 07:38:18 I was hoping I could be like other people and listen to signals while in a public transport vehicle. 07:38:37 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 07:38:57 oklofok: ping 07:38:58 oklofok: ping ping ping 07:39:01 oklofok: emergency 07:39:04 oklofok: you have to meet fizzie 07:39:10 oklofok: travel to nearest train station 07:39:23 oh right i wanted to addquote that 07:39:26 Look for a fizzie-shaped train? 07:39:31 addquote I was hoping I could be like other people and listen to signals while in a public transport vehicle. 07:39:34 862) I was hoping I could be like other people and listen to signals while in a public transport vehicle. 07:40:00 -!- Bike has joined. 07:50:32 -!- Sgeo|web has joined. 07:50:37 "SCP-411 speaks an as-yet-unknown dialect of English that has significant grammatical and vocabulary deviations from Modern English. Individuals who are to be given training in this language will benefit from a background in Spanish, Mandarin and/or Cantonese, ██████ and Haskell." 07:50:57 that entry made me chuckle 07:51:13 -!- monqy has joined. 07:51:41 Oh, I wasn't able to do the thing where I say monqy elliott 07:51:58 i forgive you 07:53:12 damn, I should have beat you :P 07:54:08 quote 07:54:11 158) elliott: i like scsh's mechanism best: it's most transparent and doesn't really serve a very useful feature. 07:58:18 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:59:09 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 08:01:59 fizzie: mosh 08:06:25 ion: Bish bosh. 08:11:17 quote 08:11:28 488) On further reflection, I think I did manage to miss winter and spring altogether. This does explain the goblin siege I had in autumn. 08:12:54 -!- evincar has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 08:18:13 ion: I think you are insufficiently agile. 08:20:57 -!- ifnspifn has quit (Quit: ifnspifn). 08:22:24 -!- ifnspifn has joined. 08:24:14 -!- oklopol has joined. 08:25:31 -!- oklofok has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 08:34:38 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 09:05:09 -!- david_werecat has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 09:12:51 -!- elliott has quit (Quit: Reconnecting). 09:15:23 -!- elliott has joined. 09:20:20 -!- Sgeo|web has quit (Quit: Page closed). 09:46:26 -!- ifnspifn has quit (Quit: ifnspifn). 09:46:29 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 09:53:14 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: leaving). 10:02:35 -!- Sgeo|MOG11111 has joined. 10:02:43 elliott: Phantom_Hoover monqy 10:02:47 Fiora: 10:02:53 mog11111 10:03:24 MOG11111, excuse you 10:04:31 im sorry 10:05:12 Well, I didn't think a nick of Sgeo|MOG!!!!! would work 10:05:18 oh no it's monqy 10:05:20 hi monqy 10:05:31 hi shachaf 10:05:35 monqy: have you ever read the ghc inliner 10:05:53 monqy: do you know what main:Foo.Foo{v reR} means! 10:06:40 Oh, I finally got my verbose output! 10:07:02 Considering inlining: main:Foo.Foo{v reR} [gid[DataConWrapper]] arg infos [] uf arity 0 interesting continuation ArgCtxt False some_benefit False is exp: True is work-free: True guidance ALWAYS_IF(unsat_ok=True,boring_ok=True) ANSWER = YES 10:07:54 ok 10:09:05 monqy: yes or no 10:09:21 if you were ghc you would say ANSWER = YES 10:09:25 or ANSWER = NO 10:09:58 i dddont know 10:17:11 Also if you’re prolog. 10:26:01 -!- ifnspifn has joined. 10:35:22 -!- oklopol has changed nick to xD. 10:35:49 everything is so funny i decided this will save my time 10:35:52 -!- xD has changed nick to Guest7699. 10:35:59 krhm 10:36:06 what :D 10:36:08 -!- Guest7699 has changed nick to oklopol. 10:36:10 Guest7699: fizzie is coming to yr town 10:36:13 go meet him 10:36:30 [12:35:10] -NickServ- This nickname is registered. Please choose a different nickname, or identify via /msg NickServ identify . 10:36:31 - 10:36:31 [12:35:10] -NickServ- You have 30 seconds to identify to your nickname before it is changed. 10:36:31 - 10:36:31 [12:35:39] -NickServ- You failed to identify in time for the nickname Xd 10:36:32 oh. 10:37:05 he is? 10:37:17 -!- atriq has joined. 10:37:37 yes 10:37:40 he may even be there right now 10:37:41 Yes indeed 10:38:03 oklopol: apparently he's going to your university-abouts 10:38:03 fizzie: where should we meet? 10:38:08 yeah i read 10:39:39 -!- epicmonkey_ has joined. 10:39:58 I'm kind of bored of being atriq 10:40:00 -!- atriq has changed nick to Taneb. 10:40:10 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 10:45:28 Aaargh 10:50:40 whoami 10:50:44 whoami: cannot find name for user ID 5000 10:50:44 -!- ais523 has quit. 10:50:47 id -a 10:50:51 uid=5000 gid=873786 10:50:54 id -a 10:51:00 uid=5000 gid=787581 10:51:02 Pft. Why can't we be root? 10:51:43 id -G 10:51:46 736514 10:52:03 id -Z 10:52:06 id: --context (-Z) works only on an SELinux-enabled kernel 11:03:27 -!- Jafet has joined. 11:06:53 -!- ifnspifn has quit (Quit: ifnspifn). 11:10:18 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 11:12:11 -!- atriq has joined. 11:15:29 How is the topic link doing that 11:15:41 -!- atriq has changed nick to Taneb. 11:16:28 Doing what 11:16:48 If I click it and say open in browser, it goes to http://xn--cdu-sed.org/logs/_esoteric/ 11:17:18 The 'o' is cyrillic 11:17:25 U+043E CYRILLIC SMALL LETTER O 11:17:32 Wow, crazy 11:18:09 -!- shachaf has set topic: http://cоdu.org/lоgs/_еsоtеric/. 11:18:26 -!- shachaf has set topic: http://соdu.оrg/lоgs/_еsоtеric/. 11:20:46 -!- elliott has set topic: http codu logs esoteric. 11:21:54 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 11:24:54 xanadu-sed.org 11:31:44 -!- shachaf has set topic: . 11:34:34 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 12:04:42 -!- ais523 has joined. 12:06:39 ais523: any idea what's up with http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=OISC&curid=1012&diff=34930&oldid=33316? 12:07:08 not sure the link actually is relevant -- I can't tell what it's on about and certainly it is in the wrong section -- but the commentless removal is a bit odd 12:08:26 The link talks about OISCs 12:09:55 -!- monqy has joined. 12:15:43 What is this about meeting people. :/ 12:16:04 I am at the ICT building, I think I'll be mostly in hiding. 12:17:06 oklopol: fizzie is at the ICT building 12:17:08 go meet him 12:17:43 "Seppo Pulkkinen, Department of Mathematics and Statistics, University of Turku" is this guy from your guys? 12:17:53 He's talking about something. 12:18:39 I'll be here in this thing until 18 and my train away leaves Kupittaa at 19, so there. 12:19:15 oklopol: THERE'S NOT MUCH TIME 12:20:34 hey elliott did you do that thing 12:22:11 Phantom_Hoover: I AM BUSY ORGANISING A MEETING OF FINNS 12:22:37 you can run worldgen in the background while doing that! 12:23:25 Without fully devoting my attention to it???? 12:23:27 That would be sloppy 12:24:23 it's worldgen man, you just watch 3 numbers increment at an ever-slower rate 12:24:55 This is why you are hopeless Phantom_Hoover 12:33:17 -!- ashet4 has left. 12:38:26 What is sleep? 12:39:04 what is MOG11111 12:39:38 sleep is that time of the day when people don't pay attention as I break into their kitchens looking steal'em cookies 12:40:21 yes 12:42:08 sleep is what happens when you have too much blood in your caffeine circulation 12:42:31 that's kinda gross nortti 12:42:46 in what way? 12:43:07 blood in my caffeine??gross 12:49:47 -!- Taneb has joined. 12:52:35 Just caused some nostalgia 12:52:44 hi 12:54:34 how? 12:55:24 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:56:12 -!- sebbu has joined. 12:56:12 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 12:56:12 -!- sebbu has joined. 12:56:14 Reminded a couple of people of something they were planning to make years ago 12:58:07 -!- ais523 has quit. 12:58:13 -!- ais523_ has joined. 13:07:50 -!- epicmonkey_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 13:14:58 -!- Taneb has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:20:01 -!- epicmonkey_ has joined. 13:20:21 -!- ais523_ has changed nick to ais523. 13:31:42 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:31:56 -!- ais523 has joined. 13:43:21 fizzie: seppo works in the same tiny building as me 13:43:26 i've never talked to him 13:43:45 waaaait 13:43:48 different seppo :D 13:44:24 oh okay 13:44:26 same seppo 13:47:13 oklopol: go go go 13:47:22 you have to get to the ICT building!!! 13:47:23 -!- nooga has joined. 13:47:42 blorgh 13:47:48 maybe next time 13:48:51 where's the topic? 13:49:00 oklopol: wtf 13:49:08 oklopol: you are depriving fizzie of a once-in-a-lifetime experience to meet oklopol!! 13:49:16 and also: the first #esoteric meeting ever 13:49:24 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 13:50:23 This Seppo is talking about "Optimization Algorithms for Large-Scale and Robust Dimensionality Reduction" soon. 13:50:54 I think it's going to involve numbers. 13:51:32 oklopol: RUN 13:51:50 RUN AWAY 13:52:58 -!- ais523 has joined. 14:00:06 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 14:01:51 ais523: you have to convince oklopol to travel a short distance to see fizzie, right now 14:04:15 And fizzie to not run away and hide from the impending oklopol. 14:05:47 oklopol: in fact 14:05:57 oklopol: i'll pay you 30 pounds gbp to go do it 14:07:15 -!- david_werecat has joined. 14:07:17 :D 14:07:48 sorry i have works to do :( 14:15:21 elliott seems to be passionate about this 14:16:24 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 14:17:30 arcatan: it is of great theological importance 14:19:51 -!- ais523 has joined. 14:31:09 -!- Taneb has joined. 14:32:08 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:32:31 -!- sebbu has joined. 14:35:15 -!- boily has joined. 14:44:14 -!- Arc_Koen has joined. 14:46:56 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:49:13 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 14:53:07 -!- ais523_ has joined. 14:55:59 -!- Frooxius has joined. 14:56:35 -!- soundnfury has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 15:00:52 -!- ais523 has joined. 15:10:04 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 15:10:06 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Client Quit). 15:10:44 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 15:16:26 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 15:19:16 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 15:21:22 -!- Taneb has joined. 15:23:02 -!- augur has joined. 15:35:14 -!- ais523 has joined. 15:39:13 -!- FreeFull has joined. 15:42:35 -!- nooodl has joined. 15:46:40 It's quiet here 15:48:57 gu 15:48:59 hi 15:50:31 hi 15:50:36 hi 15:50:44 remember oracle versus google? 15:51:03 I, umm, may have paraphrased the spec for rangeCheck and set it as an exercise for a bunch of first years 15:52:34 around half of them got it exactly on spec, which is less than I expected 15:58:39 -!- copumpkin has joined. 16:02:30 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 16:06:44 -!- oklofok has joined. 16:20:33 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 16:26:57 so i didn't meet FireFly 16:26:58 erm 16:27:01 fizzie: 16:27:03 erm 16:27:06 fizzie 16:27:16 but i met seppo on his way back from the thingie 16:28:20 Oh seppo. And the thingie. Ha ha ha, I'm participating. 16:35:04 what thingie? 16:42:56 suggested type for an esolang: int™ 16:50:47 -!- Arc_Koen_ has joined. 16:50:56 -!- Arc_Koen has quit (*.net *.split). 16:50:57 -!- boily has quit (*.net *.split). 16:50:59 -!- iamcal has quit (*.net *.split). 16:51:01 -!- Arc_Koen_ has changed nick to Arc_Koen. 16:53:44 -!- Frooxius_ has joined. 16:55:19 -!- Frooxius has quit (Disconnected by services). 16:56:24 -!- Frooxius_ has changed nick to Frooxius. 16:57:11 -!- boily has joined. 16:57:26 -!- iamcal has joined. 16:58:55 oklofok: It's all right, I kind of had to go eat with the Hatutus folks. 16:59:15 what's hatututs 16:59:17 hatutus 16:59:18 -!- epicmonkey_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 16:59:18 Though now my 19:06 train has been delayed to 19:24. 16:59:30 Pattern recognition research society. 16:59:43 Hahmontunnistustutkimuksen seura. 17:00:04 It was our twice-a-year meeting/seminar that I was here for. 17:01:40 -!- truckngear06 has joined. 17:01:59 whats up 17:02:16 hmm 17:02:19 do I recognise you? 17:02:26 no sir 17:02:32 welcome truckngear06 17:02:36 truckngear06: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 17:02:36 ty 17:02:38 can u see my ip ? 17:02:42 wow, HackEgo was fast that time 17:02:54 and yes, 24.231.195.104, or possibly 104.195.231.24 17:03:02 just wondering 17:03:43 connecting anywhere on the internet sends your IP to the site you connect to 17:04:26 yup 17:05:14 who plays black ops 2 17:05:19 xbox 360 17:06:30 fizzie: do you know seppo? 17:07:02 oklofok: No, I just listened to his talk. 17:07:14 cya gonna play some black ops 17:07:15 was it awesome 17:07:44 ais523_: Hey, your computer may be broadcasting an IP address. 17:09:16 -!- truckngear06 has left. 17:10:58 oklofok: I... suppose? It was about doing this one thing faster than other people do that thing. He claimed he's the only one from "his people" dabbling with anything pattern-recognition related. 17:11:18 what's that thing 17:11:18 is he the last of his people 17:11:47 are his people fools with no vision of the future 17:12:32 oklofok: It was the optimization problem related to this maximum-variance based dimensionality reduction method that works well if there's an underlying low-dimensional description for the points of the high-dimensional dataset. 17:13:07 Also there was a thing about doing it well even if the data is a bit noisy and not strictly on the low-dimensional thing. 17:13:15 i see 17:13:49 Based on projecting it onto a thing formed by ridges of the density function of the data set. 17:14:14 hmm, that channel join was weird 17:14:28 we get people like that in #nethack sometimes, mislead by the name 17:14:30 but #esoteric? 17:14:56 Oh no, battery low. 17:15:06 There was electricity just a moment ago. 17:15:23 I suspect this phone is "acting up" occasionally. 17:15:44 Oh well, I'll just wait until the train gets here. -> 17:15:53 Oh, now it's 19:34. 17:17:45 -!- ais523_ has quit. 17:26:16 -!- carado has joined. 17:29:12 yeah #hackage got some of those too :) 17:31:27 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 17:31:44 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 17:31:44 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 17:31:44 -!- ais523_ has joined. 17:31:44 -!- ais523 has quit. 17:31:56 -!- ais523_ has changed nick to ais523. 17:32:50 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 17:34:38 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 17:44:11 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 17:44:27 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 17:44:27 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 17:45:04 -!- nooodl has joined. 17:47:13 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 17:53:35 Bleh. Left 19:49, 43 minutes late. Is this the famed Finnish punctuality? (Okay, there is no such thing.) 17:53:58 -!- ais523 has quit. 17:54:18 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 17:59:54 -!- ifnspifn has joined. 18:04:21 -!- Jafet has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 18:08:53 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 18:11:27 fizzie: So if you have a set of 4D points 18:11:51 But the fourth coordinate is just random quantised noise between -0.5 and 0.5 18:11:56 Is it going to work well? 18:12:03 -!- epicmonkey_ has joined. 18:15:35 -!- Vorpal has joined. 18:15:42 FreeFull: Don't ask me, ask Seppo. Maybe it will. That kind of thing *is* one of the common types of toy data; many methods do suppress that sort of thing pretty well. 18:21:56 -!- david_werecat has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 18:25:15 -!- copumpkin has joined. 18:30:38 -!- sebbu has joined. 18:30:58 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 18:30:58 -!- sebbu has joined. 18:33:53 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 18:39:23 fizzie: did you meet oklofok? 18:40:38 olsner: I did not. 18:40:58 Such a loss for the advancement of the human race &c. 18:41:48 :'( 18:42:02 a day of mourning for all of oklokind 18:45:06 "This is not a national day of mourning in Helsinki, Finland's capital -- these are Finns in their natural state: brooding, private, grimly in touch with no-one but themselves." 18:45:25 :D 18:45:44 tht sound about right 18:46:43 So started a "60 minutes" (US TV show) segment about tango's popularity in Finland. 18:46:53 It was apparently considered quite rude. 18:47:06 strange 18:47:19 The visuals were random clips from Helsinki streets. 18:47:43 Admittedly the adjectives described them quite well. 18:49:23 tango is rude? 18:49:39 No the show was rude. 18:49:47 Though I'm not sure if early morning commuters (especially in bad weather) tend to look all that happy anywhere. 18:49:55 Or at least manywhere. 18:50:03 manywhere, nice word 18:50:32 It's like "anywhere" except not meaning quite all the places, just many of them. 18:51:49 not all finns like the antisocial stereotype? 18:51:52 -!- Bike has joined. 18:52:06 yes 18:52:11 don't we have like the best one there is 18:52:17 hmm, I think 'anywhere' sometimes means something more like 'somewhere' ... feels a bit like universal/existential quantification 18:52:47 maybe there should also be a 'fewwhere' 18:53:35 oklofok: As I understood it, the show was just considered taking the thing too far. But I'unno. 18:54:00 "THigh quality global journalism requires investment. Please share this article with others using the link below, do not cut & paste the article. See our Ts&Cs and Copyright Policy for more detail. Email ftsales.support@ft.com to buy additional rights. http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/2e33f00e-a36e-11e1-ab98-00144feabdc0.html#ixzz2E15YAoQo 18:54:06 What. 18:54:17 thigh quality! 18:54:22 You stupid piece of stupidest stupidity. 18:54:38 I hadn't highlighted the initial "T" so I typed it myself. 18:54:48 i don't get it, it's not even racist because most finns are white 18:56:20 also do i need to register 18:56:31 Well, feel free to peruse the link, if you want to visit a page which programmatically ejaculates stupidity all over a copy-paste. 18:57:14 I didn't need to. 18:57:29 Apparently there is a "8 free articles per month" thing. 18:57:48 So be careful about wasting one of your valuable free articles for *that*. 18:58:16 "The report goes on to say that the prescriptive tango dance sessions, with their set times when men can ask women to dance or the other way around, are perfect for shy Finns and that the lessons and dances give them a “licence to touch” one another." 18:58:28 There you go, that's what I wanted to paste. 18:58:53 I pasted it ALL OVER. All over the Internet. It's probably in dozens of places now. 18:59:05 How do you like that, FT? 19:00:29 This train, it is exactly an hour late. 19:01:24 The next TurkufHelsinki train was supposed to leave an hour after this one, I wonder if it's right behind there. 19:01:34 TurkufHelsinki. Yes. 19:03:11 yes. 19:03:47 also 8 whole articles? that's huge 19:13:21 -!- soundnfury has joined. 19:14:48 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 19:15:24 Hello 19:15:28 hi 19:15:38 No more topic :( 19:15:51 -!- nortti has set topic: < AnotherTest> No more topic :(. 19:15:59 Maybe it's just invisible. 19:16:06 Oh, now it's not. 19:16:17 Yay! I'm in the topic. 19:16:27 but there is no link to the logs now! 19:17:37 -!- Gregor has set topic: < AnotherTest> No more topic :( | No more logs :(. 19:18:14 -!- nortti has set topic: < AnotherTest> No more topic :( | No more logs :( | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 19:18:27 -!- monqy has joined. 19:18:35 -!- olsner has set topic: No more :(. 19:18:41 -!- Gregor has set topic: Logs: http://5z8.info/turkeyporn_o4u1vn_molotovcocktail. 19:19:04 :D 19:20:30 gobble gobble 19:20:33 how did you get so legit url? 19:20:40 shadyurl.com 19:20:57 ah 19:23:16 ... two people in the cubes next to me are arguing about using oil vs butter in brownies X_X 19:24:07 if brownies is similar to what I think it is similar to, oil doesn't work 19:25:37 What about oil v. butten in ponies? 19:25:41 Butten. 19:25:46 Butten butten. 19:25:53 fizzie: You sick, sick fuck. 19:26:01 derfinertly butten 19:26:13 CLICK THE PONY BUTTON 19:55:47 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 19:55:47 -!- ogrom has joined. 19:56:48 -!- nys has joined. 20:02:22 -!- oerjan has joined. 20:04:53 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 20:13:10 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 20:13:28 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 20:13:28 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 20:13:52 -!- jfischoff has joined. 20:16:18 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 20:20:42 -!- jfischoff has quit (Quit: jfischoff). 20:31:06 -!- david_werecat has joined. 20:31:41 -!- ogrom has left ("Left"). 20:34:06 -!- jfischoff has joined. 20:38:09 -!- epicmonkey_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 20:46:20 -!- david_werecat has quit (Quit: Quitting...). 20:54:07 sleep is that time of the day when people don't pay attention as I break into their kitchens looking steal'em cookies <-- i suggest not trying that with me. 20:55:57 oklopol: you are depriving fizzie of a once-in-a-lifetime experience to meet oklopol!! <-- has anyone on this channel ever successfully met oklopol? 20:56:37 I think oklofok has. 20:56:54 fellow clones don't count, fizzie 20:57:33 and also: the first #esoteric meeting ever <-- oh. 20:57:40 maybe we should all go visit oklopol at the same time some time 20:57:51 * c00kiemon5ter om nom ? :( 20:58:01 ... and get murdered by his 15 clones 20:58:52 c00kiemon5ter: (1) i don't sleep at sane times (2) i have no cookies afaik. (although there is milk chocolate.) 20:59:09 I've technically met some #esoteric people; mooz, ineiros, and sort of unidirectionally Deewiant in that he's seen me several times but I still don't know what he looks like. 20:59:14 (1)(*) except by accident 20:59:47 if you count "technically", maybe you'd have to count IRC and that's boring 21:01:00 The first two are "technically" in the "#esoteric people" aspect (mooz hasn't been here in a long time, ineiros is mute) while the last is "technically" in the "meet" aspect. 21:01:56 i must have met [[User:Rune]] from the wiki at some time, although this was surely before #esoteric existed. 21:02:01 fungot: Have you met any of the people here? 21:02:01 fizzie: later tell sjamaan also, the convention of returning the offset. i normally do that, though 21:02:14 i've met some of the guys here before joining this channel. hmm. 21:02:22 I think shachaf and kmc have met. 21:02:27 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:02:43 At least it's the sort of "vibe" I've gotten from there. 21:02:51 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 21:02:53 Wink, wink. 21:03:44 oh, shachaf and kmc have a vibe? good for them! 21:03:46 "unidirectionally meeting people" is a great term 21:04:28 I suppose it doesn't really count as a "#esoteric meet" unless the meeting happens first on-channel and only later in real life, possibly even with a causal relationship to the on-channel meeting. 21:05:06 fizzie: my chances are truly slim, then. 21:05:24 Since there's a connotation of the channel having brought the people involved together. 21:06:53 well what if they first met irl but it didn't work out and then they met again on the channel and realized how much they shared 21:07:23 very romantic! 21:07:52 I think I've met arcatan. 21:08:30 yeah, we've met 21:08:53 I've also met Lumpio- and nortti, and unidirectionally met at least atehwa 21:09:03 fizzie: Are you sure you're not thinking of HackEgo? 21:09:04 -!- boily has quit (Quit: Poulet!). 21:09:12 -!- boily has joined. 21:09:30 8) 21:09:53 arcatan: it is of great theological importance <-- it would provide nearly incontrovertible proof that the people on #esoteric are not just figments of imagination! 21:10:12 Is arcatan some kind of a Finn too? I mean, that's a very suspicious list. 21:10:29 Hm, I've met at least four people in this channel. 21:10:31 the programming kind 21:10:33 fizzie: /whois corroborates that 21:10:47 Not including myself and lambdabot. 21:10:47 ? finland 21:10:59 Finland is a European country. There are two people in Finland, and at least nine of them are in this channel. Corun drives the bus. 21:12:00 /whois corun show up a not-very-finnish looking whowas 21:12:03 *s 21:12:33 you don't have to be finnish to drive the bus 21:12:35 oerjan: Well, no one said that sentence has anything to do with the preceding two. Corun drives the bus. 21:12:47 Which bus 21:13:01 shachaf: AAAA 21:13:04 Lumpio-: the bus that Corun drives 21:13:06 The usual interpretation of that would be the Corun drives the bus of Finland (yes, *the* bus) 21:13:10 i was assuming the finnish bus. 21:13:13 why would you need multiple buses for a country with only two people 21:13:24 silly question......................... 21:13:33 especially when 9 of them are on IRC and don't need bussing around in the first place 21:15:23 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 21:15:46 monqy: to get from one end of the country to the other?? 21:15:57 monqy: use logic next time ok 21:17:12 oklofok: I... suppose? It was about doing this one thing faster than other people do that thing. He claimed he's the only one from "his people" dabbling with anything pattern-recognition related. 21:17:30 i get this vibe fizzie is becoming more similar to fungot, in that dog/owner sense 21:17:31 oerjan: richard stallman, fnord, desolation, and fnord is on the eso forum to demonstrate. 21:17:33 pattern recognition 21:17:53 less fnords, i guess 21:17:57 *fewer 21:19:12 pattern recognition 21:19:21 that's tartan 21:19:46 that's plaid to see 21:20:02 I am not like fungot! The whole idea is ludicrous. That sword alone can't stop. 21:20:03 fizzie: ccnum.scm released. http://www.neilvandyke.org/ weblog/". tell me if astyle works on fnord 21:20:38 ...i cannot addquote a conversation including me, can i? 21:20:43 *may not 21:21:08 Nothing's stopping you, but if you do, you'll be killed and fed to starving children. 21:21:15 ooh 21:21:16 -!- boily has quit (Quit: Poulet!). 21:21:21 So all said and done it's a good deed. 21:21:24 -!- boily has joined. 21:21:59 very tempting, then 21:22:25 -!- Gregor has set topic: Logs: http://5z8.info/turkeyporn_o4u1vn_molotovcocktail#gobblegobble. 21:22:43 22:07 < oerjan> very romantic! 21:22:44 22:21 < oerjan> very tempting, then 21:22:46 yes shachaf and i have met irl 21:22:49 i see a pattern here 21:22:56 once at boston python and once at the stripe ctf meetup in sf 21:22:59 and maybe another time 21:23:07 we are more awkward in person 21:23:09 nooga: is it plaid? 21:23:16 very plaid! 21:23:35 hey, does anyone know about a programming language based on minimization? like the µ operator for µ-recursive functions 21:23:57 or 21:24:02 well plaid, oerjan 21:27:33 -!- Sgeo|MOG11111 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 21:30:21 hmm, I think 'anywhere' sometimes means something more like 'somewhere' ... feels a bit like universal/existential quantification <-- maybe, but recall that scandinavian languages don't have distinct words for english "some" and "any" 21:31:26 @where any 21:31:27 I know nothing about any. 21:31:31 @google trebla any all some 21:31:33 http://www.vex.net/~trebla/weblog/any-all-some.html 21:31:33 Title: Any, For All, Exists 21:39:32 -!- atriq has joined. 21:42:01 back to your old atriq 21:42:10 Different computer 21:42:15 Different settings 21:42:29 -!- atriq has changed nick to Ngevd. 21:42:31 If you order a klein bottle shipped via USPS/UPS/DHL/whatever, will the tracking page say "volume: 0"? 21:42:45 fizzie, if it's not in a box 21:42:45 Ngevd: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 21:42:46 if you order helium balloons does it have a negative weight 21:42:59 i don't think usps usually ships through the fourth dimension 21:43:18 -!- oerjan has changed nick to oerjan_. 21:43:21 boo 21:43:22 I don't know if they measure mass or weight. I mean, the do state it in grams. 21:43:22 -!- Ngevd has changed nick to Taneb. 21:43:28 -!- oerjan_ has changed nick to oerjan. 21:44:28 (By way of context, according to the post office parcel tracking system, what they're delivering to me has a mass of 0.00 kg and a volume of 0 m^3, but I didn't order a massless klein bottle.) 21:44:51 ^rot13 Taneb 21:44:51 Gnaro 21:45:07 ^rot13 FireFly 21:45:07 SverSyl 21:45:12 ^rot14 Gnarly. 21:45:17 ^rot13 Gnarly. 21:45:18 Taneyl. 21:45:23 * shachaf 21:45:37 * ion 21:45:43 shachaf: i'm sorry, only dour puns allowed today 21:45:54 ^rot13 ion oerjan monqy 21:45:54 vba brewna zbadl 21:46:13 That sounds like an incantation. 21:46:21 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:46:30 Ia, ia, vba brewna zbadl! 21:46:51 -!- nooga has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:49:49 -!- c00kiemon5ter has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 21:52:28 -!- nooga has joined. 21:52:57 -!- boily has quit (Quit: Poulet!). 21:53:42 ^rot13 shub niggurat 21:53:42 fuho avttheng 21:53:57 ^rot13 shub niggurath 21:53:57 fuho avtthengu 21:54:05 ^rot13 fizzie fungot 21:54:06 svmmvr shatbg 21:54:18 ^rot13 olsner oklofok oklopol 21:54:19 byfare bxybsbx bxybcby 21:54:20 Summer shitbag? 21:56:30 fungot: Did you hear that? 21:56:30 fizzie: still had the older version) somewhere else. what unclear in that? :) 21:56:45 -!- Sgeo has joined. 21:57:02 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 21:57:04 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 21:57:47 -!- Arc_Koen has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:57:58 -!- Arc_Koen has joined. 21:58:51 ^rot13 ehird 21:58:52 ruveq 21:59:52 -!- carado has joined. 22:00:13 byfare 22:05:46 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 22:14:21 -!- Sgeo_ has joined. 22:15:33 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 22:19:09 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 22:24:04 ^rot13 shachaf 22:24:05 funpuns 22:24:17 oerjan: nånstans, varsomhelst, överallt? 22:24:29 not as systematic as X-where, but whatever 22:25:09 -!- augur has joined. 22:27:43 -!- Vorpal has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 22:27:54 olsner: anywhere can also be translated as nånstans in some uses 22:30:14 that's what I was referring to 22:30:28 kmc: Would that Hotspot trick help for something like GHC's GC, where it does a comparison and conditional jump on every allocation? 22:30:37 some = nån, any = nån or vilkensomhelst, depending on meaning (modulo actual swedish spelling) 22:30:43 I suppose the overhead of a page fault is too high for how often it needs to GC. 22:30:48 shachaf: maybe 22:31:03 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 22:31:12 you might use it for cheap checkpoints in allocation-free loops 22:31:18 nooodl: ONLY DOUR PUNS, I SAID 22:31:18 but ezyang has a different clever solution 22:31:21 that i think is implemented 22:31:48 What's that solution? 22:31:51 what is dour 22:32:31 oerjan: säg ett datum, vilket som helst (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QXL-o8DQM4) 22:32:41 nooodl: almost the opposite of fun 22:32:42 you compile your loops with whatever check, and then you copy that page of code and make another page which is exactly the same except that the checks are replaced by NOPs 22:33:00 olsner: um "datum" isn't a common norwegian word, please clarify 22:33:00 oerjan has a dour odour. 22:33:01 then when another thread wants to make your thread stop at a checkpoint, it masks the appropriate bit in the instruction pointer 22:33:47 oerjan: date 22:33:59 3 december *ducks* 22:34:05 i.e. calendar date, not the fruit or the activity 22:34:32 the fruit is spelt date? 22:34:41 I think so 22:34:48 yes 22:35:20 A date with a date. 22:35:50 (SO MANY MEANINGS!) 22:36:26 a date had a date with a date, but the date forgot the date 22:36:57 But the future refused to change. 22:48:37 so here's a language: 22:48:47 each program is a pair (n, p) 22:49:05 where n is a natural number 22:50:12 and p a program in befunge-93, except with unbounded playfield (instructions p and g have access to an infinite grid) 22:51:18 well numbers on the befunge stack are bounded so let's say that it's an infinity of bound * bound squares, and p and g can only affect cells in the square the ip currently is in, or something 22:51:36 so running the program (n, p) is similar to running p as befunge 22:51:55 except that every instruction goes along with an accumulator 22:52:14 and if ever one instruction's accumulator goes higher than n execution halts 22:52:32 prove tc (you have two hours) 22:53:49 may the nonzero subset of the field be unbounded? May it be aperiodic? 22:53:56 um is the accumulator tied to the spot in the playfield? 22:54:47 if aperiodic, it's quite trivial 22:55:11 i don't think you need that. finite initial setup should be sufficient. 22:55:49 not sure I understand your questions 22:56:01 idea is playfield is infinite and each cell has an accumulator 22:56:10 right, each cell. 22:56:23 but is the initial program infinite? 22:56:27 nope 22:56:37 but you get p and g 22:57:08 well i think you can do a turing machine that copies itself in some direction each step 22:57:14 that's the idea 22:57:17 what if n = 1 22:57:28 you need a big n, obviously 22:57:34 if n = 1 then creating a new instruction costs you an instruction 22:57:49 oh, n isn't provided 22:57:49 ok 22:58:05 yeah, this seems doable 22:58:44 also: is there some constant N such that the subset of pairs (N, p) is also turing-complete? 22:59:00 yes i think so 22:59:08 that would force you to write quining befunge programs :) 22:59:21 ...you have to do that anyhow 23:00:12 or perhaps a cellular automaton is more intuitive than a TM here 23:00:46 ("that" was the whole thing, not the bound on n 23:00:48 (a 1d one) 23:01:06 which "that"? 23:01:20 oh right 23:01:44 I'd just use i 23:02:15 well i would then represent each CA cell as a subsquare of the befunge program that takes care of copying itself to the next level and calculating the right CA value to put there 23:06:25 Can you write anything into an empty square, though? 23:06:39 isn't that what p does? 23:06:42 The p doing the writing would have to be in that square. 23:06:46 Not cell, square. 23:07:32 not _that_ big squares, smaller than the relative wrapping 23:07:37 "an infinity of bound * bound squares, and p -- can only affect cells in the square the ip currently is in" kind of square. 23:08:11 yes, but the squares to represent cells don't have to be anywhere near as large as bound * bound, if bound is something like 2^23 23:08:34 Yes, but wouldn't you eventually have to get out of the wrapping-square? 23:08:47 If the cells in it wear out and all. 23:08:47 oh. i was assuming the bound*bound squares were centered on the current ip 23:09:10 That's not what it sounds like, but I guess it could be. 23:09:12 so that they overlap. 23:09:23 otherwise there could be a problem yeah 23:10:14 i guess what Arc_Koen actually said doesn't imply overlapping 23:10:28 It *sounds* like there's a fixed grid of squares, but that might be just me. 23:10:31 -!- copumpkin has joined. 23:11:25 i don't know befunge well enough to know whether there is an instruction that could get around that 23:12:00 -!- Bike has changed nick to Bikeafk. 23:12:19 you could save data on the stack instead of moving across the boundary directly, but you would still need some way to get a minimal program into a non-used square 23:12:52 to do the copying from the stack to a nearly empty square 23:14:10 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 23:14:17 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Befunge-93 seems to have nothing other than p 23:14:21 I don't think 93 has anything that can write to playfield except p. 23:14:39 98 also has s which might work though would be quite awkward to use. 23:15:19 It writes a character to pos+delta, but I can't recall if it the skips that character or not. 23:15:41 Of course it'd wrap so maybe it's not a problem even if it skips it. 23:15:53 Arc_Koen: so i think we are going to need the p restricting squares to be overlapping for this to work 23:15:57 Moot point, of course, since it wasn't 98. 23:28:23 -!- ion has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 23:28:48 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 23:29:05 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 23:29:05 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 23:29:17 -!- Bikeafk has changed nick to Bike. 23:29:55 -!- zzo38 has joined. 23:31:20 I have now my own concept, another way to group pokemons, where each pokemon also belongs to a "prefix group". A prefix group is identified by zero, one, or two letters. All official pokemons belong to the Nintendo prefix group, identified by no letters. There is a partial order on prefix groups, with Nintendo being initial. 23:32:02 Do you like this? 23:32:05 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 23:33:36 It is designed to be usable with battle simulators supporting custom pokemon species. 23:35:07 Why zero, one, or two? 23:35:19 because 3 would just be madness 23:35:38 > 26^2 + 26^2 23:35:39 1352 23:35:41 So that the ID could fit in a six character field. It could be extended to three letters if necessary. 23:35:49 > 26^2 + 26^1 + 26^0 23:35:50 703 23:36:18 703 is hardly better than 1. 23:36:35 Possibly even four or five if the number of species per those groups is very small. 23:36:58 "zzo" would make a good prefix group. 23:37:09 Where does your nick come from, anyway? 23:37:28 I don't actually know for sure. 23:40:24 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 23:41:31 -!- copumpkin has joined. 23:42:00 -!- copumpkin has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:43:20 What is the best way to represent the partial ordering in the computer? 23:44:32 A long English document? 23:45:23 I wanted to do something in a ASCII text file which is both readable by people and processable by computer. 23:45:44 And in a packed form that does not necessarily require every one. 23:46:04 As well as being easy to correct. 23:47:39 -!- copumpkin has joined. 23:50:51 -!- jfischoff has quit (Quit: jfischoff). 23:56:17 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:57:01 -!- sebbu has joined. 23:57:01 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 23:57:01 -!- sebbu has joined.