←2012-12-13 2012-12-14 2012-12-15→ ↑2012 ↑all
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00:02:54 <fizzie> Less-known fact: fungot is actually a modified Fisher-Price My First IRC Bot.
00:02:54 <fungot> fizzie: he'll get rich they're entitled to make it legal they had some controversy over this before but i can't really recall anything that i've done
00:03:18 <Phantom_Hoover> sounds like lyrics to something
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00:03:42 <MDude> What a thorough and descriptive article.
00:03:48 <Bike> it'd be hard to get that to scan.
00:04:47 <MDude> Hmm, speaking of which, maybe a style based on a database of song lyrics?
00:05:12 <Phantom_Hoover> scansion is just an oppressive construct imposed by society
00:05:37 <Bike> i wouldn't brave most lyrics sites even for fungot.
00:05:38 <fungot> Bike: or wanted to know uh do you wanna start or do you you swing your elbows more or do you have
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00:06:37 <MDude> It's a fact that every site that lists lyrics has the exact same GET IT FOR YOUR CELL PHONE NOW link.
00:07:01 <Phantom_Hoover> I think I may have seen a fairly tasteful lyrics site once or twice.
00:07:06 <Phantom_Hoover> I recall that it was purple.
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00:20:39 <fizzie> Lyrics databases are kind of sucky, yes; and not very download-friendly. Very few fungot styles have been made by crawling.
00:20:40 <fungot> fizzie: are you familiar
00:20:44 <elliott> MDude: Is that a science fact?
00:20:51 <elliott> fizzie: Whaddabout that wiki one
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00:21:12 <Phantom_Hoover> what about the webcomic ones
00:21:33 <fizzie> Wiki is from the XML or SQL dump, I forget which one.
00:21:54 <fizzie> PA and Homestuck are by crawling, though.
00:21:59 <fizzie> ^style
00:21:59 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher* fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube
00:22:34 <fizzie> And iwcs and qwantz, I guess, okay.
00:22:46 <fizzie> YouTube sort-of.
00:23:15 <GreyKnight> are WP doing dumps again? I think it was broke last time I looked
00:23:30 <GreyKnight> (also Wikipedia isn't Wiki)
00:23:40 <fizzie> Books are... ahem, well, some books may be of dubious legality. But I didn't read them, I just fed them to the bot!
00:24:23 <fizzie> It's the only wiki on fungot's list. (Except technically PA is by crawling a Wikia or some other such thing.)
00:24:23 <fungot> fizzie: you know you can't uh you know you
00:24:25 <Bike> youtube having an api to download comments would be kind of funny.
00:25:06 <fizzie> And there's some material from Project Gutenberg.
00:25:28 <fizzie> (darwin speeches ss.)
00:25:43 <GreyKnight> "Wiki" capitalised is c2 :-)
00:25:55 * ais523 agrees with GreyKnight
00:26:18 <fizzie> Bah schmah, it was a perfectly acceptable shorthand for a person typing on a phone.
00:26:59 <GreyKnight> okay I'll let you off since your phone (presumably) auto-capitalises the first letter
00:27:02 <GreyKnight> just this once!
00:27:28 <fizzie> It was capitalized because sentences start with capital letters.
00:27:42 <zzo38> Add the Gutenberg style on fungot
00:27:42 <fungot> zzo38: mother and stepfather raised her and she's just turned eighty she uses her f- she has a
00:27:55 <GreyKnight> capital letters at the start of sentences is a weird rule if you think about it
00:28:04 <GreyKnight> they should be for proper nouns only
00:28:09 <fizzie> zzo38 What's the Gutenberg style? Everything in there?
00:28:22 <zzo38> GreyKnight: It is the rule though, despite that.
00:28:39 <zzo38> fizzie: Yes, I would guess so, everything public domain ASCII in there, counting, only.
00:28:59 <Bike> does gutenberg have non-public domain things?
00:29:01 <GreyKnight> throw it out! change ALL the rules! (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
00:30:01 <fizzie> zzo38: I'll see if I get around to that.
00:30:34 <fizzie> Also perhaps the Internet style from google-ngram, I think that was on the TODO list too.
00:31:20 <fizzie> (It's not all of the Internet, it's just billion words from there.)
00:31:58 <Bike> oh, you know what would be fun, if a bit annoying to do? download the geocities archive and scrape text from that.
00:32:04 <elliott> 00:21:32 <fizzie> Wiki is from the XML or SQL dump, I forget which one.
00:32:07 <elliott> No I mean the lyrics wiki thing.
00:32:16 <elliott> IIRC most of the time it is just "we can't show this because copyrights" though, but maybe they have dumps??
00:32:22 <elliott> I think it's a wikia thing or whatever.
00:33:55 <fizzie> They didn't have dumps when I last checked. Or I couldn't find any.
00:34:21 <fizzie> I was looking for a song lyric language model for other reasons.
00:34:40 <zzo38> Then call it google-ngram style
00:34:44 <FreeFull> I wonder if anyone wrote a tracker (music tool) in haskell
00:34:48 <zzo38> If that is what it is.
00:35:12 <shachaf> google-ngram style? I hear that song is pretty popular these days.
00:35:16 <zzo38> FreeFull: I tried starting to write CsoundMML in Haskell, but now I am writing CsoundMML in C. There are other music stuff in Haskell
00:35:51 <zzo38> shachaf: Is it even a song?
00:36:02 <shachaf> zzo38: I think it's Korean.
00:36:25 <FreeFull> zzo38: But that wouldn't be a tracker at all
00:36:43 <zzo38> FreeFull: Correct, they aren't, but I don't know of a tracker music in Haskell though.
00:37:42 <zzo38> But maybe someone make CsoundTracker too some day; I have some ideas how it could work directly with Csound score files, using all of its feature (tempo change, repeats, comments, function tables, etc), but I do not intend to write it at this time.
00:37:48 <zzo38> First I will write CsoundMML
00:38:16 <FreeFull> That reminds me
00:38:22 <FreeFull> You know bytebeat?
00:38:27 <zzo38> No.
00:38:49 <FreeFull> http://canonical.org/~kragen/bytebeat/
00:39:21 <Bike> "new genre of music"
00:39:32 <Bike> oh, these things. they're fun. took a while to figure out how to do it with pulse though.
00:39:39 <zzo38> O yes I think I have seen thing like that before.
00:40:56 <FreeFull> I'm thinking this would be trivial to implement in Haskell
00:41:12 <kmc> T R I V I A L
00:41:14 <FreeFull> Also I pondered a tracker that would allow you to create synths by entering a formula
00:41:29 <shachaf> TRIVIAL
00:41:46 <FreeFull> I made an rpn parser that does that but didn't write the rest of the tracker
00:41:47 <shachaf> Come on, kmc.
00:41:49 <zzo38> Csound can kind of do that, create synths by entering a formula.
00:41:53 <shachaf> Don't you have a fullwidth keyboard layout?
00:42:47 <Phantom_Hoover> why does kmc hate 'trivial' again
00:43:14 <GreyKnight> L A I V I R T
00:43:24 <kmc> haskell people use it to mean "our shit is so theoretically awesome that it doesn't matter if it actually works"
00:43:29 <kmc> you know all that engineering is "trivial"
00:43:36 <kmc> also it's just generally a douchebag way to say "easy"
00:43:39 <zzo38> FreeFull: But if you want to modify other tracker programs for .S3M format or whatever, to allow formula to be entered instead of load a file, you can try to do that.
00:43:44 <FreeFull> Well writing a bytebeat thing is trivial in any language
00:43:50 <GreyKnight> `quote trivial
00:43:52 <HackEgo> 144) <fizzie> It's like mathematicians, where the next step up from "trivial" is "open research question". <fizzie> "Nope... No...This problem can't be done AT ALL. This one--maybe, but only with two yaks and a sherpa. ..." \ 173) <elliott> So it's not exactly trivial. [Later about same thing] <elliott> It's a trivial C program :P
00:43:58 <kmc> yeah
00:44:00 <FreeFull> zzo38: That sounds too hackish
00:44:03 <GreyKnight> 144 yo ,o/
00:44:06 <FreeFull> I'd prefer a new file format
00:44:23 <kmc> this bytebeat stuff is cool
00:44:27 <FreeFull> In mathematics, often it can't be proven that something can't be done either
00:44:38 <zzo38> FreeFull: Is Csound format OK?
00:44:52 <FreeFull> Data.Bits pretty much would do most of the stuff for you
00:45:08 <FreeFull> zzo38: Does CSound do bitwise operators?
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00:45:21 <zzo38> FreeFull: Yes, actually it does.
00:45:22 <kmc> it reminds me of crystal castles
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00:45:58 <zzo38> Nevertheless you have to deal with difference of k-rate and a-rate and so on, but many operators work on a-rate, and you can use UDO to change the k-rate to the same as the a-rate if you need to.
00:46:19 <MDude> It'd be neat to make a parser built into a little hardware thing also takes various audio inputs as extra variables.
00:46:19 <FreeFull> So I could do something like t & (t >> 3) and have it output something?
00:46:32 <MDude> Though I guess I wouldn't really use such a thing much.
00:46:46 <FreeFull> MDude: Someone made a parser that consists of a tiny chip, a battery and an audio jack
00:46:48 <Bike> Well writing a bytebeat thing is trivial in any language <-- sez you, arithmetic overflow isn't even defined to do that in C, is it?
00:46:49 <FreeFull> That's it
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00:46:59 <FreeFull> Bike: I said most
00:47:10 <zzo38> FreeFull: It is not quite that simple, and the syntax is not the same as C, but basically I think it would work.
00:47:34 <FreeFull> And if you use 16/32 bit ints in C, you can just cut off the top bits with &255 every time
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00:48:04 <FreeFull> Bike: I'm not implementing a bytebeat interpreter in brainfuck
00:48:08 <zzo38> In order to make it allow to do by a single command, and using the C format, might be possible to make a plugin with such feature.
00:48:13 <FreeFull> Hell, I'm not implementing anything in brainfuck. Screw that
00:48:31 <MDude> That's kind of the idea, though.
00:48:44 <kmc> would be nice to implement some of these using discrete logic chips
00:48:48 <ais523> BF is pretty easy to write in compared to many esolangs
00:48:53 <zzo38> Csound plugins can be written in a few different programming languages: C, C++, Lua, Python, and Csound.
00:49:31 <FreeFull> ais523: I'm not going to write in those either
00:50:10 <ais523> hmm
00:50:19 <ais523> this seems like a decided lack of ambition for this channel
00:50:23 <ais523> I wrote a BF interp in Unlambda once
00:50:26 * FreeFull checks out stuff people have done with bytebeat while he wasn't looking at it
00:50:27 <ais523> err, not BF
00:50:28 <ais523> P''
00:50:58 <ais523> was aiming low
00:51:12 <zzo38> FreeFull: I have a Csound plugin license under LGPL, so if you have a C code compatible with that, I will make it into an additional command in this Csound plugin.
00:53:01 <FreeFull> Probably wouldn't be compatible
00:54:47 <zzo38> What programming language did you write a rpn parser?
00:55:41 <FreeFull> C
00:56:08 <zzo38> It might work.
00:56:14 <FreeFull> But it's basically one big switch statement with some strcmp mixed in
00:56:26 <FreeFull> And an array for a stack
00:56:33 <zzo38> If I see what you have then I might be able to work it.
00:56:45 <FreeFull> I don't think it would be worth it
00:58:34 * kmc watches some demoscene videos
00:59:06 <kmc> i was going to say that the complexity of a demo grows exponentially with size, but it's not so much "exponential" as "faster than any computable function"
00:59:27 <Bike> heh
01:00:00 <Phantom_Hoover> it's funny because it's true
01:00:28 <kmc> yep
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01:01:30 <elliott> `addquote <kmc> i was going to say that the complexity of a demo grows exponentially with size, but it's not so much "exponential" as "faster than any computable function"
01:01:33 <HackEgo> 867) <kmc> i was going to say that the complexity of a demo grows exponentially with size, but it's not so much "exponential" as "faster than any computable function"
01:01:38 <Phantom_Hoover> 'faster than any computable' function is one of those things that still completely blows my mind
01:01:58 <ais523> Phantom_Hoover: busy beaver grows like that, doesn't it?
01:02:23 <Phantom_Hoover> that's the joke
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01:04:23 <GreyKnight> Ackermann complexity whee
01:04:46 <GreyKnight> (that one *is* computable actually)
01:05:48 <MDude> Hmm, wait a minute. I was going to say something about a function using !x, but apparently various calculator thigns aren't parsing ! like I thought they would.
01:05:50 <Bike> the ones that are weird for me are the ones that grow slower than any computable (monotonically increasing) function
01:06:16 <GreyKnight> MDude: do you mean x! ?
01:06:22 <MDude> Probably.
01:06:43 <Bike> factorial is slow compared to ackermann, which is slow compared to bb/goodstein/whatever.
01:06:46 <Phantom_Hoover> Bike, hmm, like... 1-1/f(x) where f is supercomputable?
01:07:10 <Phantom_Hoover> yeah, that works
01:07:54 <elliott> Bike: wow, I hadn't realised such a function could exist until now
01:08:04 <elliott> fuck you
01:08:05 <Bike> Phantom_Hoover: the one I know is the function creeping up on kolmogorov complexity from underneath (f(x) = min{C(a) such that a >= x})
01:08:08 <MDude> Yeah, you what about factorialing a number a number of times equal to its factorial?
01:08:14 <elliott> I'm going full constructivist and forgetting anything uncomputable even exists
01:08:16 <Bike> MDude: nope
01:08:22 <Bike> elliott: was my reaction as well
01:08:25 <elliott> MDude: that's obviously computable
01:08:42 <ais523> it's primitive recursive, in fact
01:08:48 <elliott> j = n; for (i = 0; i < fact(n); i++) j = fact(j);
01:08:50 <Bike> weak!
01:08:54 <ais523> do non-primitive-recursive total functions exist?
01:08:56 <ais523> I guess they do
01:08:58 <elliott> yes
01:09:00 <elliott> tons of them
01:09:04 <ais523> I mean, that can't be emulated by primitive recursive
01:09:08 <ais523> oh, ackermann?
01:09:16 <Bike> that is the point of ackermann, isn't it...?
01:09:17 <elliott> ais523: whether a function is primitive recursive is decidable
01:09:20 <ais523> yes
01:09:20 <elliott> whether a function is total is not
01:09:25 <elliott> not very difficult :P
01:09:32 <MDude> I was htinking mroe of comparing it to demo complexity, but I suppose that was already considered.
01:09:32 <ais523> oh, I like that proof
01:09:52 <elliott> ais523: if you could write all total functions primitive recursively, you wouldn't have any need for Turing-complete languages
01:10:01 <elliott> because you'd have a language you can check, and that represents all programs that matter
01:10:05 <Bike> and we'd live in a bugless fairy utopia!
01:10:23 <GreyKnight> yep, Ackermann is total but not primitive recursive
01:10:33 <ais523> elliott: right
01:10:44 <ais523> Anarchy is going to be total except where marked otherwise
01:10:54 <ais523> or more specifically, the compiler will try to prove totality and give a warning if it can't
01:11:08 <GreyKnight> warning or error? :o)
01:11:12 <ais523> basically, because most algos you'd actually want to write in it are easy to prove total
01:11:21 <ais523> GreyKnight: warning, that would be a stupid way to make a language sub-TC
01:12:07 <GreyKnight> I've been writing C++ all week so I was starting to believe pointlessly exasperating errors were a normal language feature, my bad
01:12:51 <elliott> ais523: so it's going to be partial
01:12:55 <elliott> and you have a compiler that gives warnings
01:13:03 <elliott> your stated property has zip to do with the language
01:13:17 <ais523> elliott: yes
01:13:28 <ais523> well, unless you use -Werror
01:13:48 <FreeFull> GreyKnight: They are to C++, if you use templates
01:15:41 <kmc> yeah C++ error messages are usually pretty awful
01:15:44 <kmc> depends a lot on compiler though
01:15:51 <kmc> try clang++ and recent GCC
01:16:19 <GreyKnight> Hah. In my dreams
01:16:33 <elliott> dammit
01:16:39 <elliott> i've started writing those bytebeat things again
01:16:45 <elliott> (t*(t>>8))*!((t>>2)%8)
01:17:00 <GreyKnight> it's a nigh-unmaintainable mess that only compiles in Borland 4, which is from like 1990+something
01:17:09 <Bike> ouch.
01:17:13 <MDude> Make a bytebeat thing, fungot.
01:17:14 <fungot> MDude: a moot court t._v. laughter unless you had cable or something about religious or not but i i just
01:17:20 <elliott> randomly generating them would be cool
01:17:28 <elliott> and filtering out the ones that generate really boring stuff like silence or just one tone or whatever
01:17:31 <Bike> ._v., is that an arrowhead striking from above
01:17:34 <kmc> ouch
01:17:37 <elliott> ( http://wurstcaptures.untergrund.net/music/ )
01:17:41 <kmc> C++ sucked extra hard back in 1990+something
01:17:50 <elliott> hah replacing that first t with sin(t) makes it significantly more dissonant
01:18:32 <kmc> i'm surprised that bytebeat hasn't shown up in ioccc more
01:18:42 <MDude> I tried just shoving randomly generated characters into IBNIZ, but it dind't tend to do much interesting.
01:19:09 <elliott> ibniz is great
01:19:11 <elliott> i did much the same
01:19:16 <elliott> the js/c stuff is more accessible though
01:19:29 <Bike> ioccc entry: an implementation of RV 425 without using multiplication
01:19:35 <FreeFull> There is no byte sequence that is an invalid ibniz program :D
01:19:45 <FreeFull> Most bytes get ignored though
01:20:08 <MDude> There's stuff that tries to pull from an empty stack, though.
01:20:20 <MDude> Or push on too much and do nothing with it.
01:21:02 <FreeFull> elliott: Rather than %8 do &7
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01:21:58 <elliott> (t*(t>>8))*!((t>>2)%1) produces more manic but visually pleasing results
01:22:19 <kmc> `quote 708
01:22:20 <HackEgo> 708) <kmc> has there been any work towards designing programming languages specifically for stoned people
01:22:50 <ais523> `pastequotes ais523
01:22:54 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.31198
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01:24:01 <hagb4rd> interesting.. has anybody here prorgrammed with chromes webKitAudioContext?
01:24:20 <MDude> (t*(t>>7))*!((t>>2)%8) on left channel and (t*(t>>8))*!((t>>2)%7) on right
01:24:26 <GreyKnight> ∃ fungot | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/
01:24:26 <fungot> GreyKnight: oh my gosh that gives you noise goose bumps laughter laughter sigh that's cool noise
01:24:32 -!- GreyKnight has set topic: ∃ fungot | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/.
01:24:37 <GreyKnight> oh yes, commands are a thing
01:24:45 <GreyKnight> :v
01:25:05 <MDude> What?
01:25:09 <elliott> MDude: cool
01:25:29 <elliott> MDude: that but with (sin(t)*(t>>8))*!((t>>2)%7) on the right is cool too
01:26:08 <ais523> elliott: btw, we recently discovered that all the game-semantic models of concurrent Algol were broken
01:26:15 <ais523> not in the sense of being /wrong/
01:26:21 <ais523> just in the sense of not modelling anything useful
01:26:27 <ais523> they need a psychic scheduler to work correctly
01:27:07 <ais523> the only implementation I could think of was to, every time multiple threads were trying to perform actions simultaneously, fork off a new scheduler for each possible method of rearranging the order in which the threads act
01:27:18 <ais523> with each scheduler having its own copies of the threads
01:27:31 <elliott> ais523: heh
01:27:42 <ais523> needless to say, this is not very practical
01:27:45 <Lumpio-> 200*sin(t*"herp derp durrrr".charCodeAt((t/1000)%16))
01:27:56 <ais523> we're trying to do a hard-realtime total concurrent version of Algol
01:28:04 <hagb4rd> havascript the new punkrock: http://bit.ly/WGzVHo
01:28:04 <ais523> this involves proving the absence of deadlocks, which is awkward
01:29:47 <ais523> I have a new plan for the finite case (i.e. no flow control at all)
01:29:53 <ais523> but it doesn't generalise
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01:30:42 <elliott> (t>>4)*(sin(t)%32) yikes
01:31:05 <ais523> err, is that an integer %?
01:31:08 <ais523> if so, always 0
01:31:30 <ais523> except when it's 1 or -1, which requires luck with floating point rounding
01:31:36 <ais523> or, well, 1 or -1 times t>>4
01:31:38 <elliott> it's javascript
01:31:40 <elliott> who the hell knows
01:31:47 <elliott> http://wurstcaptures.untergrund.net/music/ to see what it actually results in
01:32:05 <GreyKnight> `quote 726
01:32:05 <ais523> if it's a floating %, it's a no-op
01:32:10 <HackEgo> 726) <ais523> bleh, why doesn't tab-complete work in mkdir for the name of the new directory
01:32:12 <ais523> unless it has weird behviour on negative numbers
01:32:32 <elliott> IIRC it behaved differently
01:32:40 <elliott> I think it might be doing something weird to the floating point rep
01:33:34 <GreyKnight> ais523: what was the context of 694?
01:33:41 <ais523> `quote 694
01:33:48 <HackEgo> 694) <Vorpal> <ais523> northern ireland is quite a way to drag someone from scotland <-- not really. I just checked in google earth <ais523> Vorpal: but dragging people across water's a bit tricky
01:33:53 <ais523> GreyKnight: I can't remember
01:33:57 <ais523> but it probably wasn't interesting, given the quote
01:34:01 <MDude> THis doens't sound that nice, but made some neat shapes: (t>>4)/(t>>5)*t%(Math.sqrt(t)*10)
01:34:13 <elliott> haha, try (t>>3)*cos(t) in 44.1 khz
01:34:27 <elliott> or 8k for that matter
01:35:03 <elliott> MDude: that's cool
01:35:16 <Lumpio-> JS has a floating %
01:35:22 <kmc> all numbers in JS are floats
01:35:24 <Lumpio-> And I don't appreciate "who the hell knows", JS is a beautiful language
01:35:25 <kmc> but yes
01:35:26 <kmc> it is cool
01:35:37 <Lumpio-> kmc: Then again it also has bitwise ops, which operate on integers :P
01:35:42 <kmc> yeah
01:35:47 <kmc> does it truncate them first?
01:35:52 <elliott> Lumpio-: if you think JS is a beautiful language then I have no idea what to say to you
01:35:53 <ais523> Lumpio-: JS scoping
01:35:55 <elliott> oh I do actually
01:35:56 <Lumpio-> yes
01:35:58 <elliott> Gregor: hey
01:36:05 <elliott> Gregor: is JS a beautiful language
01:36:10 <Lumpio-> ais523: What's wrong with it?
01:36:18 <ais523> apparently the designers of JS only implemented those scoping rules because they were fast to implement and they were in a hurry to get it out
01:36:26 <kmc> global by default is bad
01:36:31 <Lumpio-> >2012
01:36:32 <ais523> and what's wrong with it is that I had to add a bunch of extra lambdas to my code for no obvious reason
01:36:34 <Lumpio-> >doesn't even "use strict"
01:36:43 <elliott> >a person
01:36:45 <elliott> >talks like this
01:36:47 <kmc> but if you use 'var' consistently then you do have lexical scoping which is more than a lot of languages manage
01:36:49 <ais523> or, more precisely, that there's no such thing as block-local variables
01:36:54 <elliott> >annoys everyone around them by their really fucking stupid method of communication
01:37:01 <Lumpio-> You're lucky it didn't look >like this
01:37:04 <elliott> >turns every statement into condescending nonsense
01:37:04 <ais523> -also I'll start talking like this if you keep prefixing lines with greater-than signs-
01:37:12 <ais523> -kmc: you don't, you have function scoping-
01:37:21 <kmc> you have lexical scoping of functions
01:37:26 <Lumpio-> kmc: "use strict" turns what would make a "global by default" into an error
01:37:26 <ais523> -yeah but they don't nest-
01:37:29 <kmc> functions do
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01:37:44 <ais523> -yes but that means you need to add a bunch of junk lambdas to your code for no good reason-
01:37:45 <Lumpio-> If you want {} scoping, use let
01:37:51 <ais523> -and if you don't you just get hard-to-debug errors-
01:37:52 <elliott> "JS is such a cool language that you have to arbitrarily forbid large swathes of its semantics for it to not have horrific problems"
01:37:57 <elliott> truly amazing
01:38:00 <kmc> ais523: yeah
01:38:03 <kmc> it's not great
01:38:05 <GreyKnight> are we doing language wars again
01:38:08 <ais523> I lost hours to that
01:38:10 <kmc> but it's better than a lot of languages manage
01:38:10 <elliott> all day every day
01:38:15 <kmc> depressingly enough
01:38:18 <ais523> most languages do not screw up lexical scoping
01:38:19 <Lumpio-> ais523: So you're essentially saying you don't understand lambdas
01:38:24 <elliott> lol
01:38:25 <Lumpio-> Hope you never find a Lisp derivative
01:38:26 <kmc> ugh
01:38:27 <elliott> wow
01:38:28 <ais523> Lumpio-: I do understand lambdas
01:38:32 <Bike> lol.
01:38:32 <elliott> please go away
01:38:36 <ais523> I work with them
01:38:38 <kmc> Lumpio-: "for" and "if" and such don't create scopes in JS
01:38:39 <ais523> I'm not sure /you/ do, though
01:38:41 <elliott> you are a condescending idiot who assumes the worst in people apparently
01:38:45 <Lumpio-> kmc: They do if you stick to "let"
01:38:49 <elliott> with a major dunning-kruger complex
01:38:54 <kmc> i don't consider this a big deal but yeah basically what elliott said
01:39:14 <kmc> is "let" widely supported?
01:39:27 <elliott> i think the major browsers support it
01:39:30 <elliott> (this might exclude IE)
01:39:52 <GreyKnight> ais523: BTW is your Algol thing above the same project as:
01:39:55 <GreyKnight> `quote 244
01:39:57 <HackEgo> 244) <ais523> gah, who'd have thought removing concurrency from algol could be so difficult
01:40:12 <elliott> ais523 has been compiling idealised concurrent algol to hardware since the beginning of time
01:40:13 <kmc> i wouldn't call JS beautiful, but it is better than one would expect from the historical story of how it came about
01:40:20 <ais523> GreyKnight: yes
01:40:22 <elliott> and is currently anticipated to never finish performing this task
01:40:31 <ais523> elliott: nah, we can manage that already
01:40:34 <ais523> we're trying to optimize it now
01:40:54 <elliott> kmc: I'd expect better of a language whose origin story is "guy has to make a sort-of-C-like language in N days, tries to make it as much like Scheme" as possible
01:41:03 <elliott> since generally someone who knows Scheme wouldn't get things like basic scoping wrong
01:41:09 <elliott> er *Scheme as possible"
01:41:15 <ais523> elliott: he knew it was wrong at the time
01:41:20 <ais523> just he was too rushed to do it properly
01:41:25 <MDude> He tries to scheme as much as possible, got it.
01:41:29 <GreyKnight> "// TODO: we'll fix this later"
01:41:32 <kmc> i don't think it's that broken
01:41:49 <kmc> but whatever
01:41:56 <ais523> he understood lexical scope well enough to write lexical scope that didn't nest, rather than dynamic scope that did (which is just about as easy)
01:41:58 <elliott> MDude: turning your example into (t>>4)/(t>>5)*t%(Math.sqrt(t)*100) gives fun results at the start
01:42:02 <kmc> it does nest
01:42:03 <GreyKnight> I found a comment to that^ effect in some code the other week. It'd been there for about 4 or 5 years
01:42:14 <kmc> it's just that not all of the constructs you have arbitrarily decided look like they should create scopes do
01:42:48 <ais523> well if you're using C-like braces for grouping, you expect them to scope in a C-like way
01:42:55 <elliott> tbh restricting scopes to just functions is pretty ridiculous
01:43:08 <elliott> especially since all these constructs look visually identical but do not create new scopes
01:43:19 <Lumpio-> Which C
01:43:19 <kmc> anyway it's an enormous stroke of luck that javascript was designed by someone who at all understood scoping, or basic functional programming
01:43:26 <Lumpio-> Didn't old C pretty much only do function scoping
01:43:31 <Lumpio-> "All variables at the top or else"
01:43:32 <GreyKnight> the problem with curly-brace languages is how they all look the same but actually aren't :-)
01:43:38 <kmc> more often than not, these languages end up desigend by people with an irrational fear and misunderstanding of very simple things
01:43:41 <kmc> see: python
01:43:59 <kmc> GreyKnight: what, you're saying there's more to a programming language than what kind of punctuation it uses?!?!?
01:44:09 <ais523> `quote except python
01:44:10 <HackEgo> No output.
01:44:12 <ais523> hmm
01:44:13 <GreyKnight> Shocking I know!
01:44:17 <ais523> `quote python
01:44:21 <HackEgo> 158) <ais523> syntax is the least important part of a programming language <ais523> other than Python \ 422) <elliott_> Vorpal: Won't be slower than Python ;-) <Vorpal> elliott_, yeah but that is like saying a T-Ford going down a hill won't be slower than a bicycle uphill on a bumpy road :P
01:44:31 <ais523> kmc: 158 is what I was looking for
01:44:37 <kmc> heh
01:44:38 <elliott> MDude: and ((t-10)>>4)/(t>>5)*t%(Math.sqrt(t>>10)*1000) sounds kind of cool
01:44:40 <GreyKnight> the `quote search should check synonyms obviously
01:45:06 <zzo38> No, I think it shouldn't check synonyms.
01:45:08 <kmc> i only have one major complaint with Python syntax, but it's a pretty big one
01:45:13 <GreyKnight> zzo38: joke
01:45:26 <ais523> kmc: I lost my first Python program because the whitespace got mangled somehow
01:45:32 <elliott> hmm, if you have t progressing from 0 to infinity, you can get 0, 1, 2, 3, 0, 1, 2, 3 by t%4
01:45:41 <elliott> is there a nice short way of getting 0, 1, 2, 3, 2, 1, 0, 1, 2, 3, 2, 1, 0, ...
01:45:48 <hagb4rd> (t>>3)*cos(t) <-- that was the best one for now.. just need to get it less noissy
01:45:51 <elliott> 0, 1, 2, 3, 3, 2, 1, 0, 0, 1, 2, 3, 3, 2, 1 is fine too
01:45:58 <GreyKnight> zzo38: BTW you might like this: http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.network.gopher.general/4481
01:46:23 <hagb4rd> really horrorshow
01:47:00 <MDude> Since it's obviously the square root that slows things donw, I tried (t>>4)/(t>>5)*t%(Math.sqrt(t%100000)*100)
01:47:13 <zzo38> GreyKnight: Domain name I have is OK
01:47:31 <MDude> And also messed around with the size of the number after t%.
01:47:45 <shachaf> The broken thing about JavaScript's scoping is that {} doesn't create a new scope?
01:48:00 <kmc> that is the claim, yes
01:48:06 <elliott> thanks guys you suck
01:48:23 <elliott> MDude: haha when that exploded half-way through was a nice surprise
01:48:51 <Bike> hm, triangle wave with arithmetic, i dunno...
01:48:52 <GreyKnight> but zzo38.gopher would be a cool alternate name B-)
01:49:11 <elliott> it's not zzo38, it's his computer
01:49:14 <zzo38> I also dislike the way they make up TLDs like that.
01:49:17 <elliott> gotta be zzo38computer
01:49:35 <zzo38> And I have services on at least two other protocols, and may add more additionally, later on, too.
01:50:36 <Bike> Oh, hm, maybe you could do that by fucking with two's complement.
01:50:41 <GreyKnight> well, ICANN are making up TLDs as well now, so. Except selling them for £bignum
01:50:52 <Bike> no... no i don't think that would work
01:51:14 <zzo38> I don't like ICANN's making up TLDs either
01:51:29 <GreyKnight> maybe we should just scrap DNS and start over :-/
01:51:30 <GreyKnight> it's all gone a bit silly
01:51:58 <Bike> wait for ipv6 to be adopted, give everyone and their mother a stable ip, all problems solved forever
01:51:59 <kmc> shachaf: my laptop left Japan this morning (boston time) and is supposed to arrive at my door tomorrow
01:52:01 <zzo38> But I have DHCP so maybe the address might change
01:52:21 <GreyKnight> e.g. the company Johnson & Johnson put in to own ".baby". Even if we take as read that this TLD should exist, why should they be the ones to own it?
01:52:21 <hagb4rd> (t>>6|t|t>>(t>>16))*10+((t>>11)&7)
01:52:38 <shachaf> kmc: That's pretty fast.
01:52:40 <kmc> yeah
01:52:43 <elliott> well you might as ask why ICANN should own everything
01:52:48 <shachaf> (Is your door in Boston? Some people have lots of doors.)
01:52:48 <elliott> and the answer is because they were there first
01:52:53 <elliott> just like Johnson & Johnson
01:52:54 <elliott> well
01:52:55 <kmc> shachaf: timezoneconverter.com has the worst UI
01:52:56 <elliott> there first with money
01:53:04 <kmc> i wonder if the top google hit for "time zone converter" will ever be not that :(
01:53:08 <elliott> kmc: google "time in $timezone"
01:53:13 <GreyKnight> Bike: related: http://xkcd.com/865/
01:53:15 <elliott> and stuff
01:53:22 <elliott> "3 am utc in pdt" etc. works iirc
01:53:22 <kmc> useful but i do want to convert times that aren't now
01:53:25 <kmc> oh cool
01:53:27 <shachaf> elliott: That only works for right now.
01:53:30 <shachaf> Oh.
01:53:39 <elliott> ok it doesn't actually work
01:53:41 <shachaf> Doesn't work here.
01:53:41 <elliott> but istr a way to do it
01:53:56 <elliott> hagb4rd: i like that one
01:54:03 <elliott> wait wasn't this in one of the videos, it sounds familiar
01:54:13 <hagb4rd> yup
01:54:21 <kmc> it left Anchorage, Alaska like an hour ago
01:54:21 <elliott> kmc: wolframalpha can do it anyway
01:54:34 <kmc> ok
01:55:28 <shachaf> elliott: What about 0,1,2,3,3,2,1,0,1,2,3,3,2,1,0,1
01:55:32 <zzo38> It is why I wanted to make up the new international network, perhaps called "HyperNet" which is 100% decentralized, and gets rid of stupid stuff like HTML/CSS/JavaScript/HTTP/PDF/StupidStuff/etc/etc/etc/etc too.
01:55:44 <elliott> shachaf: that works too
01:55:49 <ais523> zzo38: what would it use instead?
01:55:53 <elliott> zzo38: but StupidStuff is my favourite technology
01:56:10 <shachaf> abs(((x + 3) % 7 - 3) % 4)?
01:56:15 <shachaf> Hmm, that's too complicated.
01:56:16 <zzo38> ais523: Just plain ASCII text (or, if not English, using their encoding)
01:56:51 <ais523> zzo38: why not UTF-8?
01:56:57 <ais523> that way you wouldn't have to guess the encoding
01:57:53 <zzo38> ais523: Well, you can use UTF-8 if you want, or whatever
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01:57:54 <elliott> shachaf: that sort of works but is a bit inconvenient
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01:58:05 <shachaf> elliott: SORRY
01:58:09 <shachaf> "tough"
01:59:02 <ais523> elliott: abs(x % 8 - 3) almost works
01:59:13 <ais523> that's 3 2 1 0 1 2 3 4 3 2 1 0…
01:59:36 <zzo38> It is probably much slower than internet, although, this also is advantage which allows working over nearly any physical systems, and prevents the government or whoever from spying on you or deleting things, and also with a lot more security must be included in the system, to allow updates similar to wiki or in other ways.
01:59:39 <ais523> or abs(x % 6 - 2) is 2 1 0 1 2 3 2 1 0 1 2 3 2 1 0…
01:59:51 <shachaf> abs(((x+3) % 7) - 3)
01:59:58 <shachaf> Not sure what the point of the % 4 was.
02:00:08 <elliott> ais523: that's good enough
02:00:26 <ais523> yes, it's not what you asked for, but I thought it might be what you wanted
02:00:48 <shachaf> What's this for?
02:00:53 <shachaf> I think ais523 has inside information.
02:01:09 <zzo38> The standard encoding is considered ASCII rather than UTF-8, not only because Unicode is too complicated, but also to avoid homograph attacks and stuff like that. Nevertheless, you can use whatever encoding you need for the file you are posting.
02:01:15 <shachaf> Also ais523's thing is obviously a derivative work.
02:01:22 <elliott> ais523: hmm, where is the 8 even coming from?
02:01:23 <elliott> oh, duh
02:01:24 <GreyKnight> ais523 the mindreader
02:01:35 <ais523> cycle length
02:01:47 <elliott> right
02:01:53 <elliott> so it is abs(x % k*2 - (k-1))
02:02:00 <shachaf> I had a % 7 already.
02:02:04 <FreeFull> > iterate (\x -> (abs (x % 6 - 2)))
02:02:05 <lambdabot> Not in scope: `%'
02:02:05 <lambdabot> Perhaps you meant `R.%' (imported from Data.Ratio)
02:02:14 <kmc> shachaf: now I'm trying to figure out which UPS flights my package will be on
02:02:15 <FreeFull> > iterate (\x -> (abs (x `mod` 6 - 2)))
02:02:16 <lambdabot> No instance for (GHC.Show.Show (a0 -> [a0]))
02:02:16 <lambdabot> arising from a use of `M629...
02:02:18 <kmc> looking at flightaware.com
02:02:36 <FreeFull> > iterate (\x -> (abs (x `mod` 6 - 2))) 0
02:02:37 <lambdabot> [0,2,0,2,0,2,0,2,0,2,0,2,0,2,0,2,0,2,0,2,0,2,0,2,0,2,0,2,0,2,0,2,0,2,0,2,0,...
02:02:38 <shachaf> kmc: Doesn't a laptop have a built-in UPS?
02:02:46 <kmc> -_-
02:02:52 <FreeFull> Oh wait
02:02:55 <FreeFull> What am I doing
02:03:12 <FreeFull> > map (\x -> (abs (x `mod` 6 - 2))) [0..]
02:03:14 <lambdabot> [2,1,0,1,2,3,2,1,0,1,2,3,2,1,0,1,2,3,2,1,0,1,2,3,2,1,0,1,2,3,2,1,0,1,2,3,2,...
02:03:34 <FreeFull> > map (\x -> (abs (x `mod` 12 - 4))) [0..]
02:03:36 <lambdabot> [4,3,2,1,0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,4,3,2,1,0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,4,3,2,1,0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,4,...
02:03:48 <FreeFull> > map (\x -> (abs (x `mod` 12 - 2))) [0..]
02:03:50 <lambdabot> [2,1,0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,2,1,0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,2,1,0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,2,...
02:03:56 <FreeFull> Hmm
02:04:07 <FreeFull> > map (\x -> (abs (x `mod` 12 - 5))) [0..]
02:04:08 <lambdabot> [5,4,3,2,1,0,1,2,3,4,5,6,5,4,3,2,1,0,1,2,3,4,5,6,5,4,3,2,1,0,1,2,3,4,5,6,5,...
02:04:18 <zzo38> In order to make decentralized 100% one of my ideas is that duplicate addresses are allowed, addresses can change as often as you want, needs no relevance to physical locations or hardware, and can be considered as coordinates in an infinite-dimensional space.
02:05:37 <hagb4rd> (t>>8|t|t>>(t>>6))*6+((t>>4)&7)
02:06:02 <Bike> GreyKnight: tbh i don't think central addressing is the way forward for worldeating nanobots
02:06:04 <kmc> zzo38: and how will routing work?
02:06:40 <MDude> I was considering making a system where adresses are actually relative, though it was more an alternative to usb than to the internet.
02:07:03 <zzo38> kmc: There is no routing; that is why it is so slow.
02:07:18 <kmc> well
02:07:23 <kmc> you are more honest than most protocol designers
02:07:29 <Bike> haha.
02:07:46 <ais523> this sounds like a pretty esoteric network
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02:08:08 <ais523> do you require that each address has only finitely many nonzero coordinates?
02:08:09 <kmc> do the packets just kind of meander around until they arrive at their destination by happenstance?
02:08:18 <MDude> With relative addressing, how it works is that for each routher/switch whatever, you ahve a part of the adress that says what physical connection to forward the signal through.
02:08:29 <zzo38> ais523: Yes, it would have to; but there is no limit.
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02:08:40 <MDude> To like for one that has three connections you jsut have a bit that says to turn either right or left.
02:09:00 <GreyKnight> <ais523> this sounds like a pretty esoteric network <-- "perfect"
02:09:13 <shachaf> `welcome zzo38
02:09:16 <HackEgo> zzo38: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
02:09:17 <ais523> MDude: didn't telephones used to work like that?
02:09:22 <ais523> each digit in the number was parsed by a different switch
02:09:33 <ais523> and told it which other switch to connect to
02:09:39 <shachaf> `run sed -i 's/ and deployment//' wisdom/welcome
02:09:41 <MDude> Possibly.
02:09:43 <Bike> i thought telephones used to work by asking an operator to figure it out for you
02:09:43 <HackEgo> No output.
02:09:50 <ais523> Bike: that was even earlier
02:09:59 <zzo38> kmc: Kind of. You can know which address is closer to the target. Also, you might not need a target if you have an old copy of the data (which anyone might archive, even if they don't know what it is), and if you have the key you can decrypt it. So, it can be meant for everyone with the key, rather than only one target.
02:09:59 <GreyKnight> `welcome shachaf
02:10:02 <HackEgo> shachaf: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
02:10:16 <MDude> Though I would try to add packets to that, instead of it needing to be a continuous circuit.
02:10:18 <kmc> zzo38: do you know about distributed hash tables
02:10:19 <Bike> also hm, this seems a bit like how i think freenode works
02:10:25 <shachaf> GreyKnight: Thanks, but it's just not the same.
02:10:29 <Bike> jinx!
02:10:31 <zzo38> And new versions can override old versions, sort of like git or other source code repositories, or similar to a wiki a bit
02:10:43 <kmc> Bike: freenet, you mean? or something else?
02:10:46 <GreyKnight> shachaf: yours didn't have deployment for some reason
02:10:50 <Bike> um. yes. DHTs and all.
02:10:58 <GreyKnight> oh, you removed it! How dare you
02:12:08 <shachaf> kmc: You should make a distributed content-addressed thing that everyone uses for everything.
02:12:20 <ais523> hey, have we ever actually deployed an esolang?
02:12:21 <kmc> hm not only could you implement bytebeat music in discrete logic, you could build a board with the necessary components and have a plugboard to change the way it connects together
02:12:30 <ais523> I mean, apart from me talking to the Debian packagers about INTERCAL?
02:12:45 <MDude> What is "deployed"?
02:13:49 <hagb4rd> free to blame
02:13:57 <shachaf> `welcome
02:13:59 <HackEgo> Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
02:14:29 <elliott> `revert
02:14:32 <HackEgo> Done.
02:14:32 <GreyKnight> needs more deployment
02:14:35 <shachaf> `revert
02:14:38 <HackEgo> Done.
02:14:41 <shachaf> `welcome
02:14:42 <HackEgo> Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
02:14:55 <GreyKnight> revert fite
02:15:01 <MDude> 'welcome everybody
02:15:08 <MDude> ...
02:15:12 <GreyKnight> backtick dear
02:15:13 <GreyKnight> `
02:15:15 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: : not found
02:15:20 <MDude> `welcome everybody
02:15:21 <HackEgo> everybody: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
02:15:25 <GreyKnight> now look what you made me do
02:15:34 <MDude> Good, that covers all the bases ever.
02:16:03 <MDude> Oh, and Hackego found out he can't find nothing.
02:16:21 <GreyKnight> zzo38: I like the idea and you should place a more detailed writeup somewhere
02:16:45 <Bike> `run touch ""
02:16:47 <HackEgo> touch: cannot touch `': No such file or directory
02:17:00 <Bike> what a shame
02:17:17 <GreyKnight> Use nothing, not something. If you use something you might get nothing. Anything, really.
02:17:19 <ais523> MDude: deployment's basically shipping something out to as many people as possible, in the computing world
02:17:37 <ais523> the other common usage of the term is to do with deploying troops
02:17:39 <hagb4rd> in fact an unsolved problem is how nothing can weight so little
02:17:42 <ais523> Bike: weird error message, though
02:17:56 <Bike> I got the same locally. I wonder what the hell it means.
02:18:25 <zzo38> GreyKnight: Yes I should. Note that everything is encrypted, and that you can use QR codes or ham radio or disks or even over internet whatever; therefore it is unblockable.
02:18:50 <GreyKnight> well, unless you block ALL of it :-)
02:18:53 <Bike> You should organize a counter-strike game to be played over ham radio.
02:19:16 <GreyKnight> solid steel shell around ALL the things
02:19:38 <Bike> just hit the shells rhythmically to encode vibrations
02:20:43 <MDude> Use trained elephants, they communicate subsonically.
02:21:09 <ais523> hmm… wouldn't most radios filter out the encodings of subsonic transmissions?
02:21:11 <MDude> Wait no.
02:21:14 <MDude> Infrasonic.
02:21:42 <ais523> it's definitely possible to transmit them, just there isn't normally any point and it just adds to noise floor
02:21:51 <ais523> also typical speakers can't produce them anyway
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02:23:47 <MDude> Also you can't hear it anyway, by definition.
02:24:08 <MDude> That's why you receive it with naother trained elephant.
02:24:10 <MDude> *another
02:25:01 <hagb4rd> unless you're not using amplitude or frequence modulation..how is that infrasonic manipulation realized anyway?
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02:25:49 <MDude> However the elephants normally make them?
02:26:03 <MDude> That's why you use them instead of having an infrasonic machine.
02:26:10 <MDude> They already know how to do it.
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02:26:40 <hagb4rd> i see
02:26:45 <GreyKnight> Today on #esoteric: elephant-based security exploits
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02:32:13 <GreyKnight> <ais523> I originally installed [a referer forger] for esolangs.org after that hilarious incident with the spam filter
02:32:15 <GreyKnight> ?
02:33:43 <GreyKnight> <elliott> Having hundreds of Chrome tabs is... not very sustainable. <-- I occasionally use FF's "bookmark all" to just splat all of them into a bookmark directory, then close all the things
02:33:48 <ais523> GreyKnight: basically graue used to spam-filter things by regexing against the entire HTTP request
02:33:56 <ais523> at least, that's what we /think/ was happening
02:34:05 <ais523> someone made a spam page with a spam link in its URL, somehow
02:34:17 <ais523> and all attempts to edit it were failing because the spam link was part of the referer
02:34:36 <Bike> awesome.
02:34:43 <ais523> we figured it out eventually
02:34:49 <ais523> after we couldn't even get to the main page from the spam page
02:34:57 <GreyKnight> '_'
02:35:10 <Bike> now i want to try making pages named after spam websites all over wikia.
02:35:22 <ais523> Bike: wikia probably doesn't use graue's filter
02:35:23 <ais523> we don't either
02:35:30 <ais523> among the other things it filtered were <div and <span
02:35:48 <ais523> if you find any old pages on esowiki, they sometimes use bizarre workarounds to this
02:35:49 <MDude> whatyouneedwhenyouneedit.wikia.com
02:35:49 <GreyKnight> `addquote <elliott> Deewiant: um???? You've forgotten axiom 1 of everything: everything sucks
02:35:53 <HackEgo> 868) <elliott> Deewiant: um???? You've forgotten axiom 1 of everything: everything sucks
02:36:09 <GreyKnight> elliott is either a grumpy old man or a 20-year-old
02:36:17 <shachaf> imo 868
02:36:31 <Bike> or he's just been spending too long using web browsers
02:36:35 <GreyKnight> shachaf do you know what IMO stands for
02:37:00 <MDude> International Market Object
02:37:07 <ais523> GreyKnight: I don't think he's 20 yet, but argumably he's a grumpy old man either
02:37:13 <elliott> argumably
02:37:25 <elliott> you are a wordsmitharttist
02:37:30 <ais523> elliott: I actually caught both typos in that sentence but decided they were too good to remove
02:37:33 <ais523> especially the first
02:38:00 <elliott> ais523: btw it wasn't Graue's fault
02:38:03 <elliott> it was some dumb host thing
02:38:08 <ais523> oh right
02:38:12 <ais523> it was Graue's webhost
02:38:15 <ais523> rather than Graue himself
02:38:21 <kmc> what's a graue and am i likely to be eaten by it
02:38:22 <GreyKnight> elliott: do you use IceChat?
02:38:24 <elliott> this is why me ruling everything is better
02:38:27 <elliott> GreyKnight: i... no
02:38:42 <GreyKnight> Hm you are disproving my conjecture
02:38:45 <ais523> kmc: he runs esoteric.voxelperfect.net
02:38:49 <ais523> which still exists
02:38:52 <ais523> it also used to host the wiki
02:39:06 <ais523> the Alan Dipert added esolangs.org as a redirect to it
02:39:12 <ais523> and now elliott owns both esolangs.org and the wiki
02:39:27 <kmc> mmm chorizo fried rice
02:40:23 <sgeo> If I want working Factor I'm going to need to compile it myself aren't I
02:41:07 <Bike> what the hell are you doing sgeo, it's just a download
02:41:48 <sgeo> Bike, using a version of Linux with a too old something or other for the binary
02:42:15 <sgeo> ./factor: /usr/lib/libstdc++.so.6: version `GLIBCXX_3.4.15' not found (required by ./factor)
02:42:44 <elliott> ais523: it's "THE ALAN DIPERT", btw
02:42:52 <elliott> and I don't own esolangs.org
02:43:02 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
02:43:07 <ais523> elliott: in allcaps?
02:43:09 <sgeo> Also, related to Factor but unrelated to my issues: Bike: It just occurred to me today that you could put quotations in the values for throw-restart and then call after that
02:43:19 -!- GreyKnight has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
02:43:23 <ais523> I think it's funier if you just add the pronoun
02:43:24 <shachaf> Is Factor the new Clojure, sgeo?
02:43:28 <sgeo> shachaf, maybe
02:43:42 <sgeo> Except the lack of a community scares me
02:43:44 <Bike> sounds inconvenient
02:43:55 <ais523> shachaf: how long will it be before there's a programming language equivalent of "black is the new black"?
02:44:08 <Bike> java is the new c++, I think i've heard before
02:44:14 <sgeo> Although the relative lack of libraries scares me
02:44:18 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
02:44:22 <sgeo> Although it does come with plenty of cool stuff
02:44:57 <ais523> Bike: you have to be able to put the same name on both sides
02:45:04 <MDude> Wait, a language with a lack of community?
02:45:11 <Bike> perl is the new perl? i dunno
02:45:12 <ais523> in order to do this, "X is the new Y" has to become a meme, with variable X and fixed Y
02:45:15 <kmc> shit is the new shit
02:45:17 <ais523> or vice versa, but that's less likely
02:45:22 * MDude immediatly starts using it.
02:45:40 <Bike> you can't force a snowclone.
02:45:41 <ais523> MDude: lots of esolangs have no community, unless you count this one
02:45:48 <ais523> some have no community even if you count this one
02:45:52 <kmc> a language for misanthropes you say! sign me up!!!
02:45:57 <shachaf> ais523: The thing that's going to be fixed here is new, not Y.
02:45:59 <ais523> you won't find anyone in here willing to program in ESME, for instance
02:45:59 <sgeo> MDude, there's a Factor community, but it's ... small
02:46:01 <shachaf> (GET IT????????)
02:46:11 <Bike> @google esolang esme
02:46:13 <ais523> shachaf: gah, now I'm trying to calculate fix new in my head
02:46:13 <lambdabot> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Esme
02:46:13 <lambdabot> Title: Esme - Esolang
02:46:15 <ais523> but new has the wrong type
02:46:18 <ais523> I am disappointed
02:46:27 <ais523> oh, Esme, sorry, not ESME
02:46:31 <Bike> nice logo
02:46:42 <hagb4rd> eliott: http://wurstcaptures.untergrund.net/music/?oneliner=t*5%26(t%3E%3E7)%7Ct*3%26(t*2%3E%3E10)&oneliner2=&t0=0&tmod=0&duration=30&separation=100&rate=8000
02:46:44 <kmc> Category:Shameful
02:46:49 <Bike> is this a joke?
02:46:58 <Bike> oh sorry, a "lol"
02:47:02 <ais523> Bike: read the talk page too, if you like
02:47:06 <ais523> we're… not entirely sure
02:47:09 <kmc> Bike: lulz epic fail
02:47:14 <ais523> the most charitable explanation is, we think it's performance art
02:47:15 <hagb4rd> it's sorta canon
02:47:16 * kmc jumps off nearest bridge
02:47:20 <elliott> hagb4rd: nice
02:47:27 <MDude> When I first saw it, I was expecting it to be "esme, Mario!"
02:47:36 <Bike> user:zzo38, you are the wind beneath my wings
02:47:40 <kmc> reminds me of http://esolangs.org/wiki/Most_ever_Brainfuckiest_Fuck_you_Brain_fucker_Fuck
02:47:42 <ais523> it fits in quite well as performance art
02:47:42 <MDude> But I guess that would be Eseme.
02:47:51 <elliott> kmc: that is oklopol's best language imo
02:47:55 <ais523> even if it doesn't fit in well as anything else
02:47:58 <Bike> kmc: beautiful
02:48:14 <ais523> kmc: I think I started the conversation that lead to that being invented
02:48:55 <ais523> the idea was to create a language as unlike brainfuck as possible
02:49:24 <kmc> oh, i kind of figured it was meant to evoke an incredibly complicated way of arriving at a sequence of instructions drawn from 8 possibilities
02:49:35 <ais523> nope
02:49:42 <Bike> i'm with kmc
02:49:53 <ais523> making it a BF derivative would defeat the entire point
02:50:06 <kmc> also are there any web frameworks yet for Real Fast Nora's Hair Salon 3: Shear Disaster Download
02:50:25 <kmc> Real Fast Nora's Hair Salon 3: Shear Disaster Download on Rails
02:50:30 <Bike> I thought the point was satire by making the "brainfuck in a weird encoding" thing seem ridiculous.
02:50:38 <ais523> cpressey is good at naming languages creatively
02:50:48 <kmc> zzo38 is a master of playing it straight
02:50:48 <elliott> shachaf: are you sure
02:51:04 <shachaf> elliott: Yes.
02:51:07 <ais523> I named a language the sound that's written in IPA as /ˈæmbiːɛf/ in homage to the way he names things
02:51:16 <shachaf> Please don't encourage trolls.
02:51:23 <shachaf> Unless you're keb.
02:51:39 <kmc> shachaf: do you know what TikZ stands for?
02:51:51 <ais523> shachaf: also Y fixes its argument, it's not like you can give it to things as an argument and it fixes them
02:51:53 <shachaf> kmc: Not off-hand -- should I?
02:51:55 <kmc> "TikZ ist kein Zeichenprogramm"
02:52:31 <elliott> @remember keb solike,.,.,. ,I wana know.,,., with this HASKOR junk,..,., do like functions AUTOMATICALLY get called 4.41 times per second? is that called in MAIN? and where do exicutibles get paused on the chip? PM PLZ
02:52:32 <lambdabot> Nice!
02:52:38 <elliott> Good thing this is #esoteric and not #haskell.
02:53:19 <kmc> @photontorpedo
02:53:20 <lambdabot> troll?
02:53:46 <shachaf> @forget keb solike,.,.,. ,I wana know.,,., with this HASKOR junk,..,., do like functions AUTOMATICALLY get called 4.41 times per second? is that called in MAIN? and where do exicutibles get paused on the chip? PM PLZ
02:53:47 <lambdabot> Done.
02:53:48 <kmc> elliott: what because in #haskell now 20 people would be trying to explain in good natured but entirely useless ways that functions are not automatically called 4.41 times per second?
02:53:55 -!- keb has joined.
02:54:07 <shachaf> ...Oh.
02:54:19 <keb> solike,.,.,. ,I wana know.,,., with this HASKOR junk,..,., do like functions AUTOMATICALLY get called 4.41 times per second? is that called in MAIN? and where do exicutibles get paused on the chip? PM PLZ
02:54:25 <elliott> good to see this backfired on shachaf
02:54:46 <shachaf> elliott: Well, keb fits right in here.
02:54:47 -!- NihilistDandy has joined.
02:54:59 <ais523> elliott: how did that work?
02:55:06 <elliott> ais523: I went back in time.
02:55:21 <shachaf> ais523: "X is the new X" means that X is the fixed point of new
02:55:23 <ais523> quoting someone in lambdabot doesn't normally cause them to join a channel
02:55:28 <shachaf> Well, a fixed point.
02:55:28 <elliott> shachaf: by the way, if you don't know what the "deployment" in the welcome message is for, you should stop removing it
02:55:28 <ais523> shachaf: aha, I see
02:55:29 <shachaf> X = New X
02:55:35 <elliott> `run sed -i 's/implementation/implementation/' wisdom/welcome
02:55:37 <HackEgo> No output.
02:55:52 <shachaf> elliott: If you want me to stop removing it, you should tell me what it's for.
02:55:54 <ais523> elliott: that's a no-op, isn't it?
02:56:03 <elliott> apparently it is
02:56:09 <elliott> `run sed -i 's/implementation/deployment/' wisdom/welcome
02:56:11 <ais523> or is there malicious Unicode in there somewhere?
02:56:12 <HackEgo> No output.
02:56:17 <elliott> shachaf: I think there are easier ways to get you to stop removing it
02:56:33 <ais523> anyway, I think I've deployed at least two esolangs now
02:56:41 <shachaf> ais523: What does the "deployment" mean in `welcome?
02:56:43 <ais523> so I'm probably beating the rest of you
02:56:46 <ais523> shachaf: it means "deployment"
02:56:50 <ais523> what did you expect it to mean?
02:56:52 <shachaf> ais523: OK, what's it for?
02:57:02 -!- NihilistDandy has quit (Client Quit).
02:57:39 <ais523> shachaf: have you ever deployed an esolang?
02:57:56 <ais523> if not, you need more welcoming
02:57:58 <elliott> shachaf: you just re-removed it in private yet again. please stop misusing HackEgo.
02:58:00 <shachaf> @wn deployment
02:58:01 <lambdabot> *** "deployment" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)"
02:58:01 <lambdabot> deployment
02:58:01 <lambdabot> n 1: the distribution of forces in preparation for battle or
02:58:01 <lambdabot> work
02:58:01 <elliott> `revert
02:58:02 <elliott> this is a waste of time
02:58:04 <HackEgo> Done.
02:58:06 <shachaf> `revert
02:58:09 <HackEgo> Done.
02:58:18 <shachaf> elliott: Agreed.
02:58:25 <Bike> change it to "implementation, debate, and deployment"
02:58:49 <ais523> elliott: see [[Pahana]], copyvio? non-esoteric?
02:58:57 <ais523> I'd heard of it before the article was written
02:59:20 <ais523> shachaf: why are you edit warring with elliott?
02:59:54 <shachaf> ais523: Why is elliott edit warring with me?
03:00:00 <ais523> he's changing it back
03:00:07 <ais523> to the version it's been for ages
03:00:24 <ais523> when changing something central like `welcome, it helps to have a good reason for the change
03:00:32 <ais523> especially when most other people seem to disagree with you
03:00:35 <shachaf> What's the " and deployment" for?
03:00:39 <ais523> I didn't rearrange Wikipeia's main page on a whim
03:00:41 <shachaf> As far as I can tell only elliott disagrees with me.
03:00:44 <elliott> there is a reason to assume an action I take with HackEgo is not in bad faith, which doesn't apply for you, since all you do with it is interrupt conversations with passive-aggressive `quotespam and delete stuff
03:00:48 <ais523> shachaf: I also disagree with you
03:00:48 <elliott> yawn
03:00:58 <ais523> Gregor: can we ban shachaf from HackEgo yet?
03:01:05 <shachaf> Gregor: I approve.
03:01:30 <elliott> shachaf: I don't see why you feel the need to take actions that you think will result in you being kicked/banned from IRC channels/bots/etc.
03:01:37 <elliott> Isn't that what cheater does?
03:01:50 <shachaf> I don't want to be kicked from this channel?
03:01:54 <ais523> yeah, I take a similar view of that as I do to people who like getting thrown out of games for breaking the rules
03:01:58 <ais523> in each case, you want them around
03:02:03 <ais523> `pastlog <shachaf>.*kick
03:02:05 <elliott> shachaf: ...have you forgotten the hundred times you've demanded an op of this channel to kick you
03:02:10 <HackEgo> 2012-10-26.txt:21:30:48: <shachaf> ais523: You should kick me for flooding.
03:02:12 <ais523> `pastlog <shachaf>.*kick
03:02:19 <HackEgo> 2012-04-20.txt:05:42:55: <shachaf> oerjan: Kick me while you're at it!
03:02:20 <ais523> `pastlog <shachaf>.*kick
03:02:27 <HackEgo> 2012-04-14.txt:19:36:30: <shachaf> «shahcahef foiled myy jkoe :'( - eliot hird kick him - eliottt» - elliott
03:02:27 <shachaf> OK, I don't want to be kicked from this channel anymore.
03:02:43 <shachaf> Maybe I did at the time, but there's a good reason to stay in it now.
03:02:46 <kmc> shähcähëf
03:02:59 <ais523> shachaf: which is?
03:03:05 <elliott> messing with the bot, presumably
03:03:08 <kmc> sħäħcäħëf
03:03:13 <kmc> you have a lot of 'h'es in your name, dude
03:03:21 <Bike> That doesn't seem very pronounceable.
03:03:32 <kmc> i don't know how to pronounce ħ
03:04:00 <kmc> but i can't pronounce שכהף either
03:04:07 <shachaf> That's not how my name is pronounced.
03:04:11 <shachaf> It's שחף.
03:04:13 <ais523> I can't pronounce ë
03:04:22 <kmc> ok
03:04:25 <shachaf> There's no "k".
03:04:26 <ais523> at least, apart from the English pronunciation in words like Zoë
03:04:27 <kmc> google has failed me once again
03:05:11 <kmc> ais523: isn't that a normal e, just with a diaeresis to indicate that it's not a dipthong
03:05:15 <ais523> `run cat bin/welcome
03:05:16 <HackEgo> ​#!/usr/bin/perl -w \ if (defined($_=shift)) { s/ *$//; s/ +/ @ /g; exec "bin/@", $_ . " ? welcome"; } else { exec "bin/?", "welcome"; }
03:05:17 <ais523> kmc: yes
03:05:26 <kmc> ok
03:05:27 <ais523> hmm
03:05:31 <ais523> `run cat wisdom/welcome
03:05:32 <HackEgo> Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and implementation! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
03:05:35 <ais523> `revert
03:05:38 <HackEgo> Done.
03:05:41 <ais523> `run cat wisdom/welcome
03:05:42 <HackEgo> Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
03:05:46 <ais523> there we go
03:05:54 <kmc> `run ls wisdom
03:05:55 <elliott> ais523: btw, you appear to have misremembered most brainfuckest [etc.]'s origins
03:05:56 <HackEgo> ​? \ ☃ \ 🐐 \ ais523 \ atriq \ augur \ banach-tarski \ boily \ bonvenon \ c \ cakeprophet \ category \ coffee \ comonad \ coppro \ egobot \ elliott \ endofunctor \ england \ esoteric \ europe \ everyone \ finland \ finnish \ finns \ fizzie \ flower \ freefull \ friendship \ functor \ fungot \ gaspacho \ gazpacho \ glogbot \ gregor \ hackego \
03:05:58 <elliott> 10:41:18: <oklopol> hey duddes how about this language i've been designing the last 4 months where you take brainfuck except well call it brainfuckER and you reverse all the characters, and you have to draw the program in paint? and then there's brainfuckiest where you just say beep boop in a microphone and it's interpreted as a fibonacci code word and then it's multiplied by 7 and then it's interpreted as a brainfuck program except that if you prin
03:06:05 <elliott> that probably got cut off but it doesn't matter
03:06:15 <kmc> `? ☃
03:06:17 <HackEgo> ​☃ brrr...
03:06:21 <kmc> `? �
03:06:23 <HackEgo> ​�? ¯\(°_o)/¯
03:06:32 <ais523> kmc: you only copied half the character
03:06:42 <ais523> `? endofunctor
03:06:43 <HackEgo> Endofunctors are just endomorphisms in the category of categories.
03:06:45 <kmc> `run ls wisdom | xz -9 | base64
03:06:47 <HackEgo> xz: (stdin): Cannot allocate memory
03:06:48 <Bike> `? ȫ
03:06:49 <HackEgo> ​ȫ? ¯\(°_o)/¯
03:07:00 <kmc> ő_ő
03:07:08 <Bike> Quite.
03:07:24 <ais523> `? ais523
03:07:25 <HackEgo> ais523 is ais523. This topic may retroactively become more informative if or when Feather is invented.
03:07:31 <ais523> oh right, it's a Feather joke
03:07:38 <ais523> like those didn't get old years ago
03:07:49 <kmc> why
03:07:51 <kmc> why why why
03:07:54 <ais523> (GreyKnight is allowed to make them for another couple of months because he's new)
03:08:13 <MDude> fungot, please inform me of feather.
03:08:14 <fungot> MDude: a day and i was telling her that that americans are not patient people we like fast cars and we're like oh if we've gotta save money hey wait a minute y- you know how
03:08:18 <ais523> kmc: to stop your ō getting merged with a vowel before it, obviously
03:08:26 <kmc> ohhhhh
03:08:37 <kmc> today i told some people that ASCII is not sufficient for English
03:08:50 <elliott> kmc: punk
03:08:56 <ais523> kmc – it isn't…
03:09:34 <kmc> also: it lacks the currency symbol of many english speaking countries
03:09:51 <kmc> also: if scotland becomes independent then there will be another currency union in the EU besides the Euro
03:09:55 <kmc> that's funny
03:09:59 <ais523> kmc: it doesn't have £ /or/ €
03:10:05 <kmc> right
03:10:12 <elliott> kmc: what did they say
03:10:13 <ais523> or ¬
03:10:23 <kmc> elliott: i guess they agreed with me
03:10:29 <MDude> What would their currency be called?
03:10:31 <elliott> not so punk any more
03:10:33 <kmc> and / or decided to stay quite until the crazy person stopped talking
03:10:38 <kmc> MDude: they would keep using the UK pound
03:10:42 <kmc> it is thought
03:10:45 <elliott> IMO they should adopt the yen
03:10:51 <ais523> they'd use the Scottish pound
03:10:51 <elliott> how great a piece of trivia would that be
03:10:55 <elliott> "did you know Scotland uses the yen?"
03:10:56 <kmc> there is already a strange arrangement where scottish pounds are printed by private scottish banks
03:11:02 <ais523> which is IIRC freely interconvertible 1:1 to the UK pound
03:11:12 <kmc> which are then obliged to hold in reserves of bank of england pounds
03:11:15 <kmc> yeah
03:11:16 <ais523> except that many shops won't accept Scottish money because they're worried it'll be fake
03:11:25 <kmc> i'm worried that scotland is fake
03:11:31 <kmc> i mean, i've never been there
03:11:40 <ais523> like, it's easier to forge or something
03:11:45 <ais523> kmc: it's not very far from Hexham
03:11:51 <ais523> where all esolangers live
03:11:54 <ais523> so you should go there
03:11:56 <kmc> elliott: enjoy your 0% inflation forever
03:12:03 <kmc> hint: this is not good
03:12:28 <elliott> kmc: you're an inflation
03:12:38 <elliott> btw I have been to Scotland and I can confirm it is fake
03:12:40 <kmc> my economist friends tell me that the japanese central bank has basically been taken over by old people who want their retirement savings to be valuable, and fuck the young people, we'll be dead by then
03:13:26 <kmc> ais523: is it actually easier to counterfeit or are the shops just dumb
03:13:44 <MDude> If there's no Scotland, then where are people calling when they call Scotland Yard?
03:13:54 <ais523> kmc: I suspect it's easier to counterfeit; but more to the point, the shops don't know what it looks like, so they couldn't detect even quite bad fakes
03:13:58 <kmc> mm
03:14:11 <ais523> there was that famous incident just after the euro was introduced
03:14:13 <kmc> like the walmart that accepted a $1,000,000 bill with george w bush's face on it
03:14:22 <ais523> where some people got a fortune using fake €300 notes
03:14:26 <kmc> haha
03:14:26 <kmc> score
03:14:30 <ais523> (a nonexistent denomination)
03:14:57 <ais523> kmc: there was also that incident recently where someone tried to cash in a trillion dollars of fake US bonds
03:15:03 <ais523> and got caught because they'd misspelt "dollar"
03:15:05 <kmc> hahaha
03:15:18 <ais523> I'm not sure if they would have been caught anyway or not
03:15:23 <ais523> I'm guessing yes, but no makes for a funnier story
03:15:26 <kmc> there were some people caught somewhere in europe with like $10b worth of treasury notes in a suitcase
03:15:34 -!- NihilistDandy has joined.
03:15:42 <ais523> real ones? or fake?
03:15:46 <ais523> it's pretty crazy either way
03:15:55 <kmc> allegedly counterfeit but the conspiracy theory is that they were real and the US convinced Italy or whoever to destroy them quietly
03:16:44 <kmc> elliott: india is also an english speaking country and their currency symbol isn't in ASCII either
03:16:52 <kmc> but it's also like 3 years old and looks like star wars money
03:17:36 <MDude> Make notes that claim to be for negative amounts of money.
03:17:54 <MDude> Obviously, print it with red ink.
03:18:10 <ais523> kmc: what does star wars money look like?
03:18:23 <ais523> MDude: we've had fun adventures with negative quantities of money in NetHack
03:18:29 <ais523> they're actually practically useful, for their negative weight
03:18:46 <ais523> http://qdb.rawrnix.com/?648
03:19:00 <ais523> (a fun thought experiment for anyone who likes absurd arithmetic)
03:19:38 <Bike> How much did those -2147483604 zorkmids weigh? Usually my character would be dead under the abs of that weight.
03:19:44 <MDude> http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20051201231848/starwars/images/1/13/CreditChip.jpg Star Wars Galactic Standard Credit Chip
03:19:47 <kmc> Bike: you're nega-rich!
03:20:10 <Bike> i found suseorc's vault!
03:21:52 <Bike> i guess it's like the question of whether antimatter is subject to antigravity. which is apparently a serious question.
03:23:33 <kmc> fucking gravity, how does it work?
03:23:37 <ais523> Bike: a negative amount
03:23:55 <Bike> ais523: given nethack i'd expect that to crush me into the dungeon ceiling, killing me
03:23:57 <ais523> it's quite useful, you can carry basically unlimited amounts of stuff because the gold counterweighs it
03:34:17 -!- MDude has changed nick to MDream.
03:39:03 <hagb4rd> wtf: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCRPUv8V22o&feature=player_detailpage#t=313s
03:41:06 -!- keb has changed nick to kbbb.
03:47:07 <hagb4rd> this guy has also an interesting channel: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKMrBaXJvMs&list=UURRqeqAXdCC8GgatzHO3VWA&index=1
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04:13:01 <elliott> ais523: oh, re: Pahana, I have no idea
04:13:04 <elliott> where did you hear of it?
04:13:37 <ais523> not sure
04:13:46 <ais523> it may have been a blog
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05:37:43 <oerjan> ^asc ⚣
05:37:44 <fungot> 226.
05:37:48 <oerjan> ^ord ⚣
05:37:48 <fungot> 226 154 163
05:38:04 <oerjan> argh
05:38:28 <oerjan> why the heck can't google search for a unicode character simply by pasting it :(
05:38:46 <oerjan> oh right, axiom 1
05:39:04 <shachaf> oerjan: Monad axiom 1?
05:40:11 <oerjan> <elliott> Deewiant: um???? You've forgotten axiom 1 of everything: everything sucks
05:40:37 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds).
05:40:47 <oerjan> approximately 20 lines above that character in the logs
05:41:08 <shachaf> oerjan: Are you suggesting that I logread?
05:41:09 * oerjan found it via fileformat.info
05:41:22 <oerjan> oh no, wouldn't _dream_ of it.
05:41:39 <shachaf> oerjan: You could just search unic.txt...
05:41:56 * oerjan swats shachaf -----###
05:42:19 <shachaf> Oh, you don't have unic.txt
05:42:25 <shachaf> Here's an old Perl program I used to use:
05:42:29 <shachaf> http://slbkbs.org/unic.pl.txt
05:42:46 <shachaf> I think it was originally written by Larry Wall.
05:42:50 <oerjan> shachaf, the point here is i want to find it without having to engage my brain.
05:42:54 <shachaf> Mostly because of that comment.
05:43:03 <shachaf> oerjan: I don't have a brain and I still found it...
05:43:17 <oerjan> okay
05:43:22 <shachaf>
05:43:30 <shachaf> /!\
05:47:20 <ais523> !bfjoust defend9 http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/in_egobot.hg/index.cgi/raw-file/6f8e08560f66/ais523_defend9.bfjoust
05:47:34 <EgoBot> ​Score for ais523_defend9: 16.4
05:47:52 <quintopia> why the resubmit
05:48:07 <ais523> was wondering how well my good programs from years ago did nowadays
05:48:11 <ais523> !bfjoust defend7 http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/in_egobot.hg/index.cgi/raw-file/e908fcf1f035/ais523_defend7.bfjoust
05:48:16 <EgoBot> ​Score for ais523_defend7: 25.4
05:48:36 <ais523> defend7 is up there, at least
05:48:49 <ais523> defend9 is not going to do well in today's world of stupidly large offset clears
05:49:14 <ais523> haha, it beats /all/ Gregor's programs, apart from the one that's actually jix's
05:49:31 <ais523> and mostly by pretty large margins too
05:49:33 <ais523> defend7, that is
05:49:51 <ais523> also it beats death_to_defence on one polarity, somehow
05:50:16 <Gregor> :(
05:50:25 <ais523> actually that makes no sense
05:50:36 <ais523> htf does one of my old defence programs beat death_to_defence?
05:51:09 <elliott> its a zombie
05:51:11 <elliott> cant dead a zombie
05:51:13 <elliott> irl
05:51:26 * ais523 checks on egojsout
05:51:53 <ais523> oh, haha, death_to_defence falls back to a 4-cycle clear :)
05:52:03 <ais523> and defend7's lock works on both 2-cycle clears and 4-cycle clears
05:52:28 <ais523> but not perfectly
05:52:32 <ais523> wow, it wins by just a few cycles
05:53:31 <ais523> oh, no
05:53:34 <ais523> it does have a perfect lock
05:53:47 <ais523> just it doesn't look like one because it's not an undetectable perfect lock
05:54:54 <ais523> moral of the story: nested timer clears are hard to get right
05:56:04 <ais523> stupid theory: modern programs spend so long setting up decoys that they can be beaten by a full-tape clear
05:56:06 * ais523 tests
05:56:58 <ais523> !bfjoust aggressive_full_tape_clear >+++>---(6)*5(>(+.)*255+)*21
05:57:01 <EgoBot> ​Score for ais523_aggressive_full_tape_clear: 6.9
05:57:03 <ais523> good
05:57:12 <ais523> I'd have been really worried if that won
05:57:27 <ais523> !bfjoust aggressive_full_tape_clear >+++>---(6)*5(>[(+.)*255+>])*21
05:57:30 <EgoBot> ​Score for ais523_aggressive_full_tape_clear: 16.0
05:57:33 <ais523> !bfjoust aggressive_full_tape_clear >+++>---(>)*5(>[(+.)*255+>])*21
05:57:35 <EgoBot> ​Score for ais523_aggressive_full_tape_clear: 25.3
05:57:38 <ais523> oh come /on/
05:57:47 <ais523> this is, like, the slowest clear loop in existence
05:58:46 <ais523> actually it does pretty badly
05:58:51 <ais523> not sure why it's scoring so well
05:59:05 <ais523> !bfjoust aggressive_full_tape_clear >+++>--->++>--(>)*3(>[(+.)*255+>])*21
05:59:08 <EgoBot> ​Score for ais523_aggressive_full_tape_clear: 20.4
05:59:16 <ais523> !bfjoust aggressive_full_tape_clear (>)*8(>[(+.)*255+>])*21
05:59:19 <EgoBot> ​Score for ais523_aggressive_full_tape_clear: 23.4
05:59:29 <ais523> !bfjoust aggressive_full_tape_clear >>++(>)*6(>[(+.)*255+>])*21
05:59:31 <EgoBot> ​Score for ais523_aggressive_full_tape_clear: 21.4
05:59:37 <ais523> !bfjoust aggressive_full_tape_clear >++(>)*7(>[(+.)*255+>])*21
05:59:40 <EgoBot> ​Score for ais523_aggressive_full_tape_clear: 22.7
05:59:43 <ais523> !bfjoust aggressive_full_tape_clear >++++(>)*7(>[(+.)*255+>])*21
05:59:46 <EgoBot> ​Score for ais523_aggressive_full_tape_clear: 28.9
05:59:54 <elliott> 28.9 isn't bad
05:59:56 <ais523> haha, who's using a size-3 offset clear? :)
06:00:08 <ais523> apparently, quintopia
06:00:12 <ais523> either that or it's just typing coincidence
06:00:32 <ais523> *timing coincidence
06:00:34 <ais523> but yes
06:00:47 <ais523> how a program that slow can do that well simply by being 100% immune to decoys
06:00:52 <ais523> it's like a half-speed turtle
06:01:00 <ais523> or, well, an offset turtle that offsets the entire range
06:01:23 <ais523> !bfjoust aggressive_full_tape_clear >++++(>)*7(>[+[--[(+.)*255+>]>]>])*21
06:01:26 <EgoBot> ​Score for ais523_aggressive_full_tape_clear: 28.5
06:01:33 <ais523> !bfjoust aggressive_full_tape_clear >++++(>)*7(>[(+.)*255+>])*21
06:01:35 <EgoBot> ​Score for ais523_aggressive_full_tape_clear: 28.9
06:02:08 <oerjan> ooh
06:02:19 <oerjan> (wrong window)
06:02:43 <ais523> still, that thing making top half of the leaderboard is ridiculous :)
06:03:03 <ais523> !bfjoust aggressive_full_tape_clear >++++(>)*8(>[(+.)*255+>])*21
06:03:06 <EgoBot> ​Score for ais523_aggressive_full_tape_clear: 26.2
06:03:10 <ais523> !bfjoust aggressive_full_tape_clear >++++(>)*7(>[(+.)*255+>])*21
06:03:13 <EgoBot> ​Score for ais523_aggressive_full_tape_clear: 28.9
06:03:23 <ais523> hmm, I thought that was a program that might benefit from the elliott sacrifice
06:03:26 <ais523> but apparently not
06:03:39 <elliott> the elliott is a standard unit of sacrifice measure
06:03:43 <elliott> it's equivalent to 11.4 goats
06:03:46 <ais523> !bfjoust aggressive_full_tape_clear >++++(>)*4++++(>)*3(>[(+.)*255+>])*21
06:03:49 <EgoBot> ​Score for ais523_aggressive_full_tape_clear: 23.1
06:03:56 <ais523> !bfjoust aggressive_full_tape_clear >+++++(>)*7(>[(+.)*255+>])*21
06:03:59 <EgoBot> ​Score for ais523_aggressive_full_tape_clear: 29.3
06:04:03 <ais523> !bfjoust aggressive_full_tape_clear >++++++(>)*7(>[(+.)*255+>])*21
06:04:05 <EgoBot> ​Score for ais523_aggressive_full_tape_clear: 30.8
06:04:09 <ais523> !bfjoust aggressive_full_tape_clear >+++++++(>)*7(>[(+.)*255+>])*21
06:04:11 <EgoBot> ​Score for ais523_aggressive_full_tape_clear: 30.8
06:04:17 <ais523> !bfjoust aggressive_full_tape_clear >++++++++(>)*7(>[(+.)*255+>])*21
06:04:20 <EgoBot> ​Score for ais523_aggressive_full_tape_clear: 29.3
06:04:23 <ais523> !bfjoust aggressive_full_tape_clear >++++++(>)*7(>[(+.)*255+>])*21
06:04:26 <ais523> OK 6 is optimal :)
06:04:26 <EgoBot> ​Score for ais523_aggressive_full_tape_clear: 30.8
06:04:31 <elliott> ais523: you need an optimiser program for this :)
06:04:35 <elliott> wait, don't you have one?
06:04:37 <ais523> I do
06:04:47 <ais523> but it's not very good for optimizing decoy setups
06:05:16 <ais523> I'm wondering if the strategy even /can/ be tweaked
06:05:26 <ais523> I guess I could use a smaller offset on the turtle
06:05:37 <ais523> !bfjoust aggressive_full_tape_clear >++++++(>)*7(>[(+)*64(+.)*127+>])*21
06:05:40 <EgoBot> ​Score for ais523_aggressive_full_tape_clear: 30.4
06:05:43 <ais523> hmm, weird
06:05:52 <ais523> !bfjoust aggressive_full_tape_clear >++++++(>)*7(>[(+)*32(+.)*191+>])*21
06:05:55 <EgoBot> ​Score for ais523_aggressive_full_tape_clear: 33.8
06:05:58 <ais523> there we go
06:06:09 <ais523> I guess it's not an aggressive full tape clear any more though
06:06:13 <ais523> !bfjoust aggressive_full_tape_clear <
06:06:16 <EgoBot> ​Score for ais523_aggressive_full_tape_clear: 0.0
06:06:23 <ais523> !bfjoust very_offset_turtle >++++++(>)*7(>[(+)*32(+.)*191+>])*21
06:06:25 <EgoBot> ​Score for ais523_very_offset_turtle: 34.0
06:07:47 <elliott> ais523: why can't it optimise decoy setups?
06:07:51 <elliott> it should just be (+)*N, right?
06:08:03 <ais523> it doesn't brute-force, tries to use an evo algo
06:08:16 <ais523> !bfjoust very_offset_turtle >++++++(>)*8[(+)*32(+.)*191>([(+)*32(+.)*191>])*20](>[(+)*32(+.)*191+>])*20
06:08:19 <EgoBot> ​Score for ais523_very_offset_turtle: 33.8
06:08:21 <ais523> that should be equivalent
06:08:26 <ais523> apparently I messed up somewhere
06:08:48 <ais523> !bfjoust very_offset_turtle >++++++(>)*8[(+)*32(+.)*191+>([(+)*32(+.)*191+>])*20](>[(+)*32(+.)*191+>])*20
06:08:50 <EgoBot> ​Score for ais523_very_offset_turtle: 33.8
06:08:57 <ais523> oh, just the board settling
06:09:23 <ais523> !bfjoust very_offset_turtle >++++++(>)*8[(+)*32(+.)*191+>([(+)*32(+.)*191+>])*20](<)*8(-)*50(>)*8(>[(+)*32(+.)*191+>])*20
06:09:26 <EgoBot> ​Score for ais523_very_offset_turtle: 32.1
06:09:31 <ais523> !bfjoust very_offset_turtle >++++++(>)*8[(+)*32(+.)*191+>([(+)*32(+.)*191+>])*20](<)*8(-)*90(>)*8(>[(+)*32(+.)*191+>])*20
06:09:33 <EgoBot> ​Score for ais523_very_offset_turtle: 28.1
06:09:38 <ais523> !bfjoust very_offset_turtle >++++++(>)*8[(+)*32(+.)*191+>([(+)*32(+.)*191+>])*20](<)*8(-)*20(>)*8(>[(+)*32(+.)*191+>])*20
06:09:41 <EgoBot> ​Score for ais523_very_offset_turtle: 32.9
06:09:47 <ais523> !bfjoust very_offset_turtle >++++++(>)*8[(+)*32(+.)*191+>([(+)*32(+.)*191+>])*20](<)*8(>)*8(>[(+)*32(+.)*191+>])*20
06:09:50 <EgoBot> ​Score for ais523_very_offset_turtle: 33.8
06:09:54 <ais523> !bfjoust very_offset_turtle >++++++(>)*8[(+)*32(+.)*191+>([(+)*32(+.)*191+>])*20](<)*8+(>)*8(>[(+)*32(+.)*191+>])*20
06:09:57 <EgoBot> ​Score for ais523_very_offset_turtle: 33.8
06:10:06 <ais523> !bfjoust very_offset_turtle >++++++(>)*8[(+)*32(+.)*191+>([(+)*32(+.)*191+>])*20](<)*8(+)*10(>)*8(>[(+)*32(+.)*191+>])*20
06:10:09 <EgoBot> ​Score for ais523_very_offset_turtle: 33.8
06:10:12 <ais523> !bfjoust very_offset_turtle >++++++(>)*8[(+)*32(+.)*191+>([(+)*32(+.)*191+>])*20](<)*8(+)*20(>)*8(>[(+)*32(+.)*191+>])*20
06:10:15 <EgoBot> ​Score for ais523_very_offset_turtle: 32.5
06:10:38 <ais523> !bfjoust very_offset_turtle >++++++(>)*8[(+)*32(+.)*191+>([(+)*32(+.)*191+>])*20](<)*6++++++>++++++>------(>)*4(>[(+)*32(+.)*191+>])*20
06:10:40 <EgoBot> ​Score for ais523_very_offset_turtle: 24.6
06:10:50 <ais523> !bfjoust very_offset_turtle >++++++(>)*7(>[(+)*32(+.)*191+>])*21
06:10:53 <EgoBot> ​Score for ais523_very_offset_turtle: 33.8
06:10:54 <ais523> let's go back to the simple version
06:12:25 <ais523> !bfjoust very_offset_turtle >++++++(>)*7(>[(+)*32(+..)*191+>])*21
06:12:28 <EgoBot> ​Score for ais523_very_offset_turtle: 31.1
06:12:29 <oerjan> why do you keep offsetting the pure turtle
06:12:35 <oerjan> *poor
06:12:43 <ais523> !bfjoust very_offset_turtle >++++++(>)*7(>[(+)*32(++.)*191+>])*21
06:12:46 <EgoBot> ​Score for ais523_very_offset_turtle: 26.7
06:12:54 <ais523> hmm, both interesting results there
06:13:02 <ais523> !bfjoust very_offset_turtle >++++++(>)*7(>[(+)*32(+.)*191+>])*21
06:13:04 <EgoBot> ​Score for ais523_very_offset_turtle: 33.8
06:13:10 <ais523> it's either much faster than programs, or much slower
06:13:25 <ais523> or programs are falling off against it due to it only setting one decoy
06:13:30 <ais523> !bfjoust very_offset_turtle >++++++(>)*7+(>[(+)*32(+.)*191+>])*21
06:13:32 <EgoBot> ​Score for ais523_very_offset_turtle: 28.9
06:13:49 <ais523> yeah, that's the difference it makes if you change the decoy setup even slightly
06:13:53 <ais523> thus, the high score is an illusion
06:14:04 <ais523> or else a sign that people should stop relying on ridiculous decoy setups
06:14:10 <ais523> !bfjoust very_offset_turtle >++++++(>)*7(>[(+)*32(+.)*191+>])*21
06:14:14 <EgoBot> ​Score for ais523_very_offset_turtle: 33.8
06:14:28 <ais523> !bfjoust very_offset_turtle >++++++(>)*7(>[(+)*48(+.)*159+>])*21
06:14:30 <EgoBot> ​Score for ais523_very_offset_turtle: 33.6
06:14:46 <ais523> !bfjoust very_offset_turtle >++++++(>)*7(>[(+)*40(+.)*175+>])*21
06:14:49 <EgoBot> ​Score for ais523_very_offset_turtle: 33.6
06:15:01 <ais523> !bfjoust very_offset_turtle >++++++(>)*7(>[(+)*30(+.)*195+>])*21
06:15:04 <EgoBot> ​Score for ais523_very_offset_turtle: 33.8
06:15:56 <ais523> !bfjoust very_offset_turtle >++++++(>)*7>[(+)*64(+.)*127+>](>[(+)*30(+.)*195+>])*20
06:15:59 <EgoBot> ​Score for ais523_very_offset_turtle: 33.3
06:16:07 <ais523> !bfjoust very_offset_turtle >++++++(>)*7>(>[(+)*30(+.)*195+>])*21
06:16:10 <EgoBot> ​Score for ais523_very_offset_turtle: 31.1
06:16:19 <ais523> !bfjoust very_offset_turtle >++++++(>)*7(>[(+)*30(+.)*195+>])*21
06:16:22 <EgoBot> ​Score for ais523_very_offset_turtle: 33.8
06:16:31 <ais523> !bfjoust very_offset_turtle >++++++(>)*7(>[(+)*30(+.)*195+>])*21(++-----)*100000
06:16:33 <EgoBot> ​Score for ais523_very_offset_turtle: 33.8
06:16:44 <ais523> heh, the "beat vibration programs on length 30" addition has no effect at all
06:17:34 <ais523> !bfjoust very_offset_turtle >++++++(>)*7(>[(+)*30(+.)*195+>])*-1
06:17:37 <EgoBot> ​Score for ais523_very_offset_turtle: 33.8
06:17:40 <ais523> I think I prefer the clean version
06:22:42 <ais523> !bfjoust very_slow_offset_turtle >+++>+++>+++>--->---<(-)*65<(+)*65<(+)*65<(+)*65<(-)*65(>)*8(>[(+)*30(+.)*195+>])*-1
06:22:45 <EgoBot> ​Score for ais523_very_slow_offset_turtle: 23.4
06:23:33 <oerjan> you cannot beat vibration, silly
06:24:08 <ais523> yeah, obviously
06:24:13 <ais523> !bfjoust very_slow_offset_turtle <
06:24:20 <EgoBot> ​Score for ais523_very_slow_offset_turtle: 0.0
06:24:40 <ais523> and yeah, very_offset_turtle doesn't work against defence unless it's lucky
06:24:47 <ais523> it's a turtle, after all
06:26:54 <elliott> !bfjoust
06:26:54 <EgoBot> ​Use: !bfjoust <program name> <program> . Scoreboard, programs, and a description of score calculation are at http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/
06:27:10 <elliott> ais523: i forget, is bf joust still borken
06:27:11 <elliott> *broken
06:27:16 <elliott> whoah what is space hotel
06:27:27 <ais523> it's not as healthy as it was but is recovering
06:27:35 <ais523> I've beaten death_to_defence with at least two defence programs now
06:27:52 <ais523> although there's no fundamental way to beat it, it could be tweaked to beat those at the cost of losing to others
06:27:57 <Bike> "Gregor_furry_furry_leather_discipline_girls.bfjoust" why did i click
06:27:58 <elliott> holy shit space hotel is fucking gigantic
06:28:11 <ais523> Bike: don't worry, it's not porn
06:28:17 <ais523> Gregor just likes weird names like that
06:28:17 <Bike> i know
06:28:19 <elliott> Bike: ais523 is lying, it's porn
06:28:22 <elliott> hth
06:28:27 <Bike> what is "hth"
06:28:32 <Bike> other than some kind of strange laughter
06:28:41 <elliott> hope this helps
06:28:46 <elliott> it means "hope this doesn't help"
06:28:48 <elliott> `pastelogs space_hotel
06:28:51 <Bike> right ok
06:29:21 <Bike> oh it's 300 K of brainfuck
06:29:22 <HackEgo> No output.
06:29:23 <Bike> welp
06:30:01 <Bike> and bondage discipline whatever is ... no
06:30:08 <Bike> god i hope this isn't porn.
06:30:18 <ais523> Bike: watching it may be better than trying to read it: http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/egojsout/
06:30:26 <elliott> why is HackEgo not responding...
06:30:35 <elliott> Bike: (space_hotel is computer-generated)
06:30:44 <elliott> as are some of Gregor's programs; those ones actually contain the program used to generate them
06:30:48 <elliott> well, not generated as in evolved or anything
06:30:55 <Bike> yes yes
06:31:00 <ais523> I mostly write mine by hand
06:31:07 <Bike> it's still more than enough brainfuck for one lifetime
06:31:13 <ais523> I still think we should have a BF Joust oneliner competition
06:31:22 <ais523> with ties broken by who spent the most time waiting
06:31:27 <elliott> Bike: it's technically not even brainfuck!
06:31:38 <Bike> yeah what's with the numbers
06:32:22 <ais523> run-length encoding
06:32:22 <elliott> you may find http://esolangs.org/wiki/BF_Joust helpful
06:32:49 <elliott> and also http://esolangs.org/wiki/BF_Joust_strategies
06:32:49 <Bike> it's just i mean, corewars is dorky enough, doing it in bf... i don't know if i'm willing to cross that line
06:33:00 <elliott> which is one of the longest articles on the wiki I think
06:33:00 <Bike> that "already in five freenode channels" line
06:33:48 <elliott> ais523: hm, we should feature [[BF Joust strategies]] sometime
06:33:53 <elliott> even if it isn't technically a language
06:33:54 <ais523> elliott: oh, definitely
06:34:12 <ais523> I can't because I wrote most of it
06:34:15 <ais523> although it's a collaborative effort
06:34:19 <elliott> ais523: so how does space hotel work
06:34:22 <elliott> `pastelogs space_hotel
06:34:30 <ais523> elliott: I'm guessing it's the same as quintopia_a
06:34:33 <elliott> ais523: right, it is one of the longest articles mainly because you wrote it :)
06:34:45 * elliott thinks ais523 should try constrained writing
06:34:45 <ais523> in which case it's described on the strategies page
06:34:51 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.24532
06:34:53 <ais523> either that, or it's an evolution of it
06:35:02 <elliott> http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/in_egobot.hg/index.cgi/raw-file/6d523478892c/quintopia_a.bfjoust
06:35:05 <elliott> looks very different
06:35:08 <ais523> hmm, OK
06:35:11 <elliott> at least, space_hotel is much huger
06:35:26 <elliott> though the basic structure looks similar
06:35:32 <elliott> `echo hi
06:35:33 <HackEgo> hi
06:35:36 <elliott> `which pastelogs
06:35:38 <HackEgo> ​/hackenv/bin/pastelogs
06:35:42 <elliott> `run pastelogs friends
06:35:49 <ais523> one thing that worries me is that deep poke + breadcrumb decoys + offset clear is not a strategy that anyone's figured out how to beat yet
06:35:50 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.6010
06:36:11 <ais523> apart from leviathan, none of the recent hilltoppers are significantly different from that
06:36:38 <ais523> and the only known way to beat the strategy is to just pull off the same strategy more efficiently
06:36:47 <zzo38> Csound doesn't support looping zero times!
06:37:07 <elliott> `run pastelogs 'space.hotel'
06:37:35 <ais523> you could try to lock the clear loop; that's how defend7 beats Gregor's programs
06:37:42 <ais523> but that itself seems beatable
06:37:48 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.4494
06:38:10 <elliott> 02:58:59: <quintopia> !bfjoust space_hotel http://sprunge.us/hjjg
06:38:10 <elliott> 02:59:11: <EgoBot> ​Score for quintopia_space_hotel: 65.3
06:38:10 <elliott> 03:00:22: <quintopia> !bfjoust a <
06:38:10 <elliott> 03:00:25: <EgoBot> ​Score for quintopia_a: 0.0
06:38:12 <elliott> looks like yes
06:38:21 <elliott> @ask quintopia is the description for quintopia_a on the strategies page up-to-date for space_hotel?
06:38:21 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
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06:39:26 <Bike> i wonder if you could make an abstract srategy game so complicated that lipograms would start to resemble A Void. because tht's sure what it's looking like
06:39:29 <ais523> and it's not like you can really attack the existence of breadcrumb decoys
06:39:55 <ais523> except… hmm
06:40:01 <ais523> which program should I pick on
06:40:33 <ais523> oh, hahaha :)
06:40:40 <ais523> !bfjoust this_somehow_beats_space_hotel >+
06:40:47 <EgoBot> ​Score for ais523_this_somehow_beats_space_hotel: 5.9
06:40:48 <ais523> wait, no it doens't
06:40:51 <ais523> only on short tapes
06:40:53 <ais523> !bfjoust this_somehow_beats_space_hotel <
06:40:54 <ais523> misread
06:40:56 <EgoBot> ​Score for ais523_this_somehow_beats_space_hotel: 0.0
06:41:53 <ais523> oh, the strategy I was going to use wouldn't work
06:42:06 <ais523> space_hotel checks its breadcrumbs in the wrong order
06:43:08 <ais523> yeah, I can't see a way to attack this particular breadcrumb trail strategy
06:43:17 <ais523> like, exploit the existence of the strategy
06:43:19 <ais523> but I'll think about it
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07:02:57 <ais523> !bfjoust beats_ffspg_perfectly http://sprunge.us/UJOL
07:03:03 <EgoBot> ​Score for ais523_beats_ffspg_perfectly: 9.0
07:03:40 <ais523> Gregor_furry_furry_strapon_pegging_girls.bfjoust vs ais523_beats_ffspg_perfectly.bfjoust <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< 42 ais523_beats_ffspg_perfectly.bfjoust wins.
07:04:06 <ais523> I don't see any way to generalize the technique to beat more than one program, though :(
07:04:54 <ais523> it also works against space_hotel on very short tapes, for the same reason it works on ffspg
07:05:09 <ais523> but won't work on longer tapes because it can't exploit pokes that don't leave trails
07:05:34 <oklopol> "<kmc> oh, i kind of figured it was meant to evoke an incredibly complicated way of arriving at a sequence of instructions drawn from 8 possibilities"
07:05:45 <oklopol> um i'm pretty sure that indeed was the idea.
07:06:25 <ais523> oklopol: oh, I missed the point then
07:06:32 <ais523> haha, it beats dreadnought too
07:06:37 <elliott> ais523: you should write a program that derives a warrior that beats the input warrior
07:06:38 <ais523> for exactly the same reason it beats ffspg
07:06:46 <elliott> it doesn't seem obviously uncomputable
07:06:49 <ais523> elliott: I've had some thoughts about that
07:06:55 <ais523> but there isn't an obvious way to do it that works in all cases
07:07:07 <elliott> ais523: well, you can trivially do it, assuming such a program exists
07:07:09 <elliott> because tape lengths are finite
07:07:34 <elliott> I guess it could be "hard" in the sense that you could use your (quite tiny) state to write a warrior whose behaviour depends on some very complex computation
07:07:34 <lambdabot> elliott: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
07:07:49 <elliott> s.t. it would have to roll that inside out somehow
07:09:45 <ais523> !bfjoust beats_ffspg_perfectly http://sprunge.us/UhJN
07:09:48 <EgoBot> ​Score for ais523_beats_ffspg_perfectly: 6.0
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07:10:07 <ais523> oh, miscalc
07:10:11 <ais523> !bfjoust beats_ffspg_perfectly http://sprunge.us/UJOL
07:10:18 <EgoBot> ​Score for ais523_beats_ffspg_perfectly: 9.0
07:10:29 <ais523> there, it gets a perfect win against two really good warriors
07:14:01 <ais523> I guess I could use some sort of slow undermine
07:14:28 <ais523> but that doesn't work either because programs use a forward decoy setup for their breadcrumb filling
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07:15:55 <oerjan> > "implementation/implementation"
07:15:56 <lambdabot> "implementation/implementation"
07:28:50 <oerjan> `run echo 'Agent "Ïa" Smith is an alien with a strange allergy to avian body covering, which he is trying to retroactively prevent from ever evolving.' >wisdom/ais523
07:28:53 <HackEgo> No output.
07:28:59 <oerjan> `? ais523
07:29:01 <HackEgo> Agent "Ïa" Smith is an alien with a strange allergy to avian body covering, which he is trying to retroactively prevent from ever evolving.
07:32:18 <fizzie> Is that really true, or are you just fibbing?
07:35:59 <oerjan> well, the middle name may not be _entirely_ correct.
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08:03:15 <sgeo> elliott, monqy Fiora ... update about 3 hours ago
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08:18:05 <fizzie> [07:15:38] <ngnaiduf> someone, someone, someone else: that thing there [007477]
08:18:11 <fizzie> Are you sure you want me to bring that thing here?
08:18:22 <fizzie> (For the record, it's 10:18 in this time zone now.)
08:23:33 <oerjan> > 0x007477
08:23:35 <lambdabot> 29815
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08:37:41 <zzo38> I figured out something about Csound score macros. Macros can expand into comment delimiters, and macro invocations can be nested like $p$r.. and the macro name can include [] expressions
08:37:48 <fizzie> I think it's bit of a shame that even though it's zero-padded, it's not actually an octal number.
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10:52:21 <AnotherTest> Hello
10:52:43 <AnotherTest> ∃ or ∃! ?
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10:53:42 <oerjan> fungot: are you unique?
10:53:43 <fungot> oerjan: ( ( oh)) i can't really say i've gone into the pentagon the plane you know
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10:54:11 <oerjan> i'm ... not sure we are ready to know
10:55:17 <fizzie> fungot: I should probably keep a closer eye on what you're up to.
10:55:17 <fungot> fizzie: not be to their benefit i think that um i guess a lot of
11:14:44 <sgeo> elliott, monqy Fiora Ph
11:17:24 <Fiora> "im afaid* so. i think the story is builting romantic tension between us."
11:18:10 <Jafet> Is there an unfungot?
11:18:11 <fungot> Jafet: it's kind of like you know
11:18:33 <fizzie> What would an unfungot be like?
11:18:34 <fungot> fizzie: and i don't
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11:59:21 <GreyKnight> So fungot has gone into the Pentagon... And it will "not be to their benefit"...
11:59:21 <GreyKnight> Hm.
11:59:21 <fungot> GreyKnight: yeah yeah i yeah i don't have
12:00:21 <GreyKnight> yeah yeah yeah
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12:03:53 <fizzie> fungot: Are you, in fact, a terrrrorist?
12:03:53 <fungot> fizzie: well you kind of have a business name or something that i i don't understand
12:04:11 <fizzie> A shady bot.
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12:44:04 <sgeo> So, guess what scheme the "hacker genius" at tech club came up with to make brute forcing harder
12:44:18 <sgeo> (against encryption)
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12:44:41 <sgeo> Use several algorithms. Order of algorithms and which algorithms are used are secret similarly to the key
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12:45:26 <sgeo> I tried to point out that that doesn't help as much as just adding a lot of bits to the key
12:45:44 <monqy> what does hacker genius mean here
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12:46:25 <sgeo> monqy, the person at tech club who apparently works as a penetration tester and thought that parameterized queries are vulnerable to null byte attacks
12:46:29 <sgeo> In PHP
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12:47:06 <monqy> so he's really not a hacker genius
12:47:06 <monqy> ok
12:47:10 <monqy> what's a tech club
12:47:18 <sgeo> Club at school
12:47:39 <monqy> is it always like this
12:48:44 <sgeo> But I keep getting fascinated by what he says. It's like, when he says something I don't understand fully, he could be completely correct, but he could be wrong, I don't know, but when he talks about stuff I understand, he's just not that great
12:48:59 <sgeo> Although that USB thing that fakes being a keyboard is kind of cool
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12:49:31 <monqy> ????
12:49:58 <sgeo> As in, it gets plugged in, it starts typing stuff to open a command prompt and do things on the system
12:51:08 <monqy> ok
13:03:51 <sgeo> But when he talks about stuff I don't understand, I just find myself being impressed, even though I have no way of being sure that he knows what he's talking about
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13:37:31 <GreyKnight> elliott: I realised you don't actually break my hypothesis because your nick starts with a lowercase letter
13:37:40 <Taneb> My plan to video game today has a fatal flaw
13:38:35 <fizzie> It is Friday, and it would be socially unacceptable to video game away a Friday evening?
13:38:43 <fizzie> (I understand this be the case in some circles.)
13:38:44 <Taneb> No
13:38:51 <Taneb> I can't find my PS2 controller
13:39:07 <fizzie> Use a PS/2 controller instead.
13:39:21 <Taneb> That will work perfectly well!
13:39:23 <GreyKnight> Or a serial controller
13:39:34 <fizzie> A serial air traffic controller.
13:42:02 <GreyKnight> @quote
13:42:02 <lambdabot> CodeWeaver says: keep in mind encryption's only as good as how much you trust that the implementors got it right.
13:43:28 <quintopia> as long as the implementors are smarter than me
13:43:28 <lambdabot> quintopia: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
13:43:33 <quintopia> oh right that
13:50:18 <GreyKnight> If environment variables were structured we could store PATH as a list of strings, the way God intended
13:51:04 <GreyKnight> Maybe I should try scheme shell
13:52:20 <Taneb> Hmm
13:52:26 <Taneb> Would SBurb be a rogue-like?
13:53:00 <Jafet> A Set of Directory Names, you neanderthal
13:53:14 <Taneb> SBurb is a set of directory names!?
13:53:39 <Jafet> What is SBurb, fungot?
13:53:39 <fungot> Jafet: you need to have
13:54:14 <Taneb> The bot's right, Jafet.
13:54:18 <Taneb> You need to have SBurb
13:54:34 <Taneb> Otherwise you won't survive the meteors
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13:59:53 <fizzie> fungot: Do you have a copy?
13:59:53 <fungot> fizzie: no we just passed the ban two weeks ago in the sunday league and they would have they'd be in jail why are you in
14:00:45 <Jafet> fungot: I approve of banning sburb.
14:00:45 <fungot> Jafet: supplies that we could pay for
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14:10:44 <GreyKnight> Jafet: if it was a set we'd need a way of choosing between identically-named executables
14:11:12 <GreyKnight> Hmm unless we just run them all with the specified arguments and discard any results that gave an error?
14:13:42 <Jafet> OrderedSet?
14:13:52 <GreyKnight> Unrelated, but: "These criteria are not rigorous in any real sense (you'd need a formal semantics for Haskell in order to give a proper answer to this question)"
14:13:53 <GreyKnight> ^ Haskell doesn't have a formal semantics?!??
14:14:18 <GreyKnight> Ah, an ordered set works
14:14:22 <Jafet> People didn't want to have formal semantics flamewars
14:14:39 <Jafet> Dry cleaning costs too much
14:14:55 <GreyKnight> I am totally surprised, Haskell seems like the language most likely to have one defined
14:17:13 <Jafet> Nobody needs one
14:19:06 <GreyKnight> When has *that* ever stopped people?
14:19:13 <Jafet> The kind of languages where people actually need formal semantics are: C, Java, PHP, ARMv6
14:19:31 <Jafet> (I did not make up those examples)
14:19:55 <Jafet> Do you know how many phd student grants a formal semantics costs
14:19:58 <Jafet> It's not free
14:21:01 <GreyKnight> PHP has formal semantics?!?
14:21:01 <GreyKnight> Or wait do you mean "needs"
14:21:28 <Jafet> There's a semantics for a fragment of PHP
14:21:41 <Jafet> They used it to find a language bug
14:21:54 <Jafet> I think it's in icfp
14:24:05 <Jafet> http://www.research.ibm.com/trl/people/mich/pub/200901_popl2009phpsem.pdf
14:24:20 <Jafet> Ok, it was in popl
14:24:22 <Jafet> "close enough"
14:25:05 <GreyKnight> Can't we just pay some grad students a year's worth of pot noodles? :o)
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14:25:39 <Jafet> The cost of the noodles is very small compared to the cost of the phd
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14:28:22 <GreyKnight> Jafet: while searching for the paper, I got an Amazon link for "Low Prices on Formal Semantics". Forget the pot noodles, we'll order it online!
14:29:31 <fizzie> Ut-oh, checking "what was that weird angel book on display at the bookstore" wasn't the best idea w.r.t. Amazon recommendations: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/113389132/Misc/20121214-amazon.png
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15:22:57 <kmc> Standard ML famously has a formal semantics
15:23:07 <kmc> but it's in some book that costs money :(
15:23:20 <kmc> also mmm pot noodle
15:23:45 <kmc> maybe i'll have shin ramyun for breakfast
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15:30:55 * quintopia agrees with kmc
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15:55:09 <GreyKnight> Stop making me hungry
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16:40:10 <sgeo> Currently impossible to build Factor from source
16:40:26 <sgeo> Because the build process downloads a binary image from some server, and that server is down
16:40:37 <kmc> hilarious
16:40:41 <sgeo> Well, I guess not "impossible", but I don't know how I'd approach it
16:40:52 <sgeo> Other than waiting for it to be fixed
16:45:22 <GreyKnight> Building from binaries, eh?
16:45:30 <GreyKnight> @_@
16:45:43 <sgeo> It's like SBCL
16:46:36 <Phantom_Hoover> you mean it needs an existing factor compiler?
16:46:37 <elliott> GreyKnight: not much other choice with a bootstrapping compiler
16:46:38 <lambdabot> elliott: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
16:47:16 <sgeo> Phantom_Hoover, yes
16:47:23 <Phantom_Hoover> sgeo, SBCL can use any CL implementation, at least in theory.
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16:49:05 <sgeo> I just thought of one feature that Squeak Smalltalk has that the Factor environment doesn't: The ability to, after an arbitrary exception, look around, change things, and continue on. I think that's doable in theory in Factor, but as far as I know the tooling isn't there.
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16:49:50 <sgeo> I think one of the big draws of Factor to me is the environment, so... does this mean I should really be playing with Smalltalk?
16:50:22 <GreyKnight> Good question!
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16:50:37 <GreyKnight> (I don't know the answer)
16:50:41 <monqy> answer: should you???????
16:50:58 <kmc> whether playing with clojure or playing with smalltalk, you're just playing with yourself
16:51:48 <sgeo> Clojure has an almost decent sized community. Smalltalk has ... some sort of community, I think. It's really just Factor where I'd be almost alone
16:52:05 <monqy> making a monads library for clojure is making a monads library for the people
16:53:27 <GreyKnight> Does lambdabot or hackego have a random-chooser?
16:53:44 <monqy> yes
16:53:45 <monqy> `? ngevd
16:53:48 <HackEgo> ​#o
16:53:58 <GreyKnight> @rng clojure smalltalk factor
16:53:58 <lambdabot> Maybe you meant: bug msg ping rc run wn
16:54:27 <GreyKnight> monqy: wat
16:55:08 <monqy> `? ngevd
16:55:10 <HackEgo> ​RQ1T"ue!5*bdPc|>.,Hc##5A~dtMO,ɹ/h)L@T.Ldz
16:55:55 <Vorpal> `ls
16:55:57 <HackEgo> bin \ canary \ egobot.tar.xz \ foo \ interps \ karma \ lib \ paste \ quotes \ share \ wisdom \ zalgo \ zalgo.hi \ zalgo.hs \ zalgo.o
16:56:17 <GreyKnight> double wat
16:56:27 <GreyKnight> Maybe I can write one for HackEgo
16:56:35 <GreyKnight> What languages can he manage?
16:56:50 <Vorpal> ask Gregor
16:56:55 <Vorpal> but a lot of them
16:57:02 <monqy> they're all brainfuck derivatives though
16:57:04 <sgeo> Well, it's a Linux bot
16:57:08 <elliott> `ls bin
16:57:09 <HackEgo> ​? \ @ \ WELCOME \ 1l \ 2l \ addquote \ adjust \ allquotes \ anonlog \ asm \ axo \ bch \ befunge \ befunge98 \ bf \ bf16 \ bf32 \ bf8 \ boolfuck \ c \ calc \ cintercal \ clcintercal \ cxx \ define \ delquote \ dimensifuck \ etymology \ forget \ forth \ fortune \ frink \ fuck \ glass \ glypho \ google \ haskell \ hatesgeo \ hi \ jous
16:57:10 <Vorpal> `python --version
16:57:11 <HackEgo> Python 2.7
16:57:13 <elliott> i see it still has
16:57:16 <Vorpal> `perl --version
16:57:18 <HackEgo> ​ \ This is perl, v5.10.1 (*) built for x86_64-linux-gnu-thread-multi \ (with 56 registered patches, see perl -V for more detail) \ \ Copyright 1987-2009, Larry Wall \ \ Perl may be copied only under the terms of either the Artistic License or the \ GNU General Public License, which may be found in the Perl 5 source kit. \ \ Complete documenta
16:57:20 <Vorpal> `gcc --version
16:57:21 <HackEgo> gcc (Debian 4.4.5-8) 4.4.5 \ Copyright (C) 2010 Free Software Foundation, Inc. \ This is free software; see the source for copying conditions. There is NO \ warranty; not even for MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.
16:57:22 <monqy> `ls interps
16:57:24 <HackEgo> 1l \ 2l \ adjust \ axo \ befunge \ bfjoust \ bf_txtgen \ boof \ build.sh \ cfunge \ c-intercal \ clc-intercal \ dimensifuck \ egobch \ egobf \ fukyorbrane \ gcccomp \ gforth_quit \ ghc \ glass \ glypho \ kipple \ lambda \ lazyk \ linguine \ Makefile \ malbolge \ pbrain \ qbf \ rail \ rhotor \ sadol \ sceql \ trigger \ udage01 \ underload \ unlambda
16:57:25 <Vorpal> `ghc --version
16:57:26 <monqy> "more languages"
16:57:29 <HackEgo> The Glorious Glasgow Haskell Compilation System, version 7.6.1
16:57:38 <elliott> monqy: thats not what interps/ is
16:57:41 <GreyKnight> `lua -v
16:57:45 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: lua: not found
16:57:50 <GreyKnight> :<
16:57:51 <Vorpal> no lua I guess
16:57:51 <monqy> elliott: i know...
16:58:05 <GreyKnight> FINE I'll use the occasion to practice my haskell
16:58:05 <Vorpal> `ada --version
16:58:07 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ada: not found
16:58:13 <Vorpal> no ada compiler?
16:58:16 <Vorpal> `java --version
16:58:21 <HackEgo> Unrecognized option: --version \ Could not create the Java virtual machine.
16:58:22 <sgeo> It needs a COBOL compiler
16:58:32 <Vorpal> some sort of java wrapper at least
16:58:35 <monqy> elliott: i forget what it is though
16:58:45 <sgeo> `java -version
16:58:49 <HackEgo> java version "1.6.0_18" \ OpenJDK Runtime Environment (IcedTea6 1.8.13) (6b18-1.8.13-0+squeeze2) \ OpenJDK 64-Bit Server VM (build 14.0-b16, mixed mode)
16:58:57 <Vorpal> `ghdl --version
16:58:58 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ghdl: not found
16:59:07 <monqy> `hatesgeo --version
16:59:08 <HackEgo> ​ \ This is perl, v5.10.1 (*) built for x86_64-linux-gnu-thread-multi \ (with 56 registered patches, see perl -V for more detail) \ \ Copyright 1987-2009, Larry Wall \ \ Perl may be copied only under the terms of either the Artistic License or the \ GNU General Public License, which may be found in the Perl 5 source kit. \ \ Complete documenta
16:59:09 <Vorpal> no VHDL emulator?
16:59:27 <GreyKnight> `vice
16:59:28 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: vice: not found
16:59:37 <Vorpal> `ruby --version
16:59:41 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ruby: not found
16:59:45 <Vorpal> no big loss there
16:59:58 <Vorpal> `g++ --version
17:00:01 <HackEgo> g++ (Debian 4.4.5-8) 4.4.5 \ Copyright (C) 2010 Free Software Foundation, Inc. \ This is free software; see the source for copying conditions. There is NO \ warranty; not even for MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.
17:00:20 <GreyKnight> Gregor, can we get luarocks on HackEgo? Pretty please?
17:00:24 <Vorpal> hm is there a javac though?
17:00:24 <Phantom_Hoover> GreyKnight, `? ngevd is a link to /dev/urandom, if nobody explained that.
17:00:25 <Vorpal> `javac --version
17:00:30 <HackEgo> javac: invalid flag: --version \ Usage: javac <options> <source files> \ use -help for a list of possible options
17:00:30 <Phantom_Hoover> `ls -l wis
17:00:33 <HackEgo> ls: invalid option -- ' ' \ Try `ls --help' for more information.
17:00:35 <Vorpal> `javac -version
17:00:40 <HackEgo> javac 1.6.0_18
17:00:42 <GreyKnight> Phantom_Hoover: they didn't, thanks
17:00:59 <Phantom_Hoover> `runls -l wis
17:01:00 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: runls: not found
17:01:02 <Phantom_Hoover> `run ls -l wis
17:01:04 <HackEgo> ls: cannot access wis: No such file or directory
17:01:08 <Phantom_Hoover> `run ls -l wisdom
17:01:10 <HackEgo> total 356 \ -rw-r--r-- 1 5000 5000 12 Dec 9 07:37 ? \ -rw-r--r-- 1 5000 5000 12 Dec 9 23:42 ☃ \ -rw-r--r-- 1 5000 5000 68 Dec 9 23:43 🐐 \ -rw-r--r-- 1 5000 5000 141 Dec 14 07:28 ais523 \ -rw-r--r-- 1 5000 5000 13 Dec 9 22:07 atriq \ -rw-r--r-- 1 5000 5000 21 Dec 9 07:37 augur \ -rw-r--r-- 1 5000 5000 64 Dec 9 07:37 banach-tarski \
17:01:20 <Vorpal> hm "debian desktop environment", what does that entail?
17:01:22 <Vorpal> gnome?
17:01:23 <Phantom_Hoover> `? banach-tarski
17:01:24 <HackEgo> ​"Banach-Tarski" is an anagram of "Banach-Tarski Banach-Tarski".
17:01:27 <Phantom_Hoover> Original.
17:02:15 <elliott> Vorpal: debian default is xfce
17:02:17 <elliott> or was it lxde
17:02:26 <Phantom_Hoover> or perhaps lxfce
17:02:30 <Vorpal> elliott, eh, sounds fine
17:02:37 <sgeo> http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m3281gSpCr1qhp6k5o1_400.jpg
17:02:58 <Vorpal> elliott, just need to set up the non-free repo afterwards to get the GPU drivers and what not.
17:03:07 <Vorpal> I guess?
17:03:19 <Phantom_Hoover> sgeo, I presume that image is not actually an SCP reference?
17:03:27 <elliott> Vorpal: depending on yr card the free drivers might work fine
17:03:37 <sgeo> It's the same statue
17:03:43 <sgeo> that's in the SCP-173 image
17:03:47 <Vorpal> elliott, I use opencl, last I checked that didn't work with the free AMD drivers
17:03:47 <sgeo> With its creator
17:03:51 <elliott> whoah sgeo
17:03:54 <elliott> tell me more completely obvious facts
17:04:16 <sgeo> I don't know what Phantom_Hoover was asking
17:04:24 <GreyKnight> sgeo: ! What is it called?
17:05:01 <Phantom_Hoover> sgeo, whether it was actually taken with SCP in mind.
17:05:14 <Phantom_Hoover> I wonder if the creator even knows.
17:05:27 <Vorpal> I don't like this, the ETA for the download is counting up at about 2 seconds per second...
17:05:44 <GreyKnight> His brainchild is internet famous
17:06:55 <sgeo> http://www.scaithebathhouse.com/en/exhibitions/2005/04/izumi_kato/
17:07:58 <GreyKnight> 1
17:08:04 <GreyKnight> I mean er
17:08:05 <GreyKnight> !
17:08:07 <kmc> elliott: so with Nix, does every version of every package you've ever installed stay installed forever?
17:08:09 <GreyKnight> sgeo++
17:09:06 <elliott> kmc: no it has a (conservative) GC
17:09:23 <kmc> ok
17:09:28 <kmc> how does it handle things like $PATH
17:09:38 <elliott> kmc: you can think of the nix store as literally a pure programming language's memory
17:09:40 <kmc> if i want to run a python script that starts with "#!/usr/bin/env python", which python does it use
17:09:56 <elliott> uhh I think they keep a /usr/bin/env around
17:10:01 <GreyKnight> Max version maybe?
17:10:02 <kmc> also there's no way for it to track references from random scripts i write that aren't in Nix
17:10:05 <elliott> you PATH gets set to the location of your active profile which uses symlinks
17:10:14 <elliott> and the nix-env stuff sets that up
17:10:22 <elliott> you could do this with a unionfs too but they don't
17:10:29 <elliott> 17:10:02 <kmc> also there's no way for it to track references from random scripts i write that aren't in Nix
17:10:39 <elliott> you can specify gc roots explicitly
17:10:47 <elliott> which happens if you install a package explicitly obvs
17:10:51 <elliott> i mean
17:11:00 <elliott> it's not going to remove a package you installed to run a script because it thinks it's unused :P
17:11:07 <kmc> why not?
17:11:11 <GreyKnight> magic
17:11:18 <kmc> oh, you're saying the things i explicitly ask for are considered roots
17:11:24 <elliott> kmc: because no package manager does that? if your environment references it you want it
17:11:30 <kmc> ok
17:11:31 <elliott> because you asked for it
17:11:46 <elliott> but if you upgrade a package in your environment then you no longer want the old version
17:11:50 <elliott> or its outdated dependencies etc.
17:11:56 <kmc> i see
17:12:39 <kmc> so do you think installing nixos on my new laptop is a bad idea or a terrible idea?
17:12:53 <Vorpal> wow, the download ETA displayed in the debian installer is all over the place. They seriously need to add a low pass filter to that thing
17:12:55 <quintopia> excellent idea. do it.
17:13:05 <elliott> kmc: well it's new so worst case you can just wipe it and install ubuntu right
17:13:09 <elliott> perfect time to fuck things up
17:13:40 <kmc> yes
17:14:04 <elliott> they have a nice install guide
17:14:11 <elliott> it's pretty manual last time i checked
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17:17:03 <Phantom_Hoover> man
17:17:10 <Phantom_Hoover> brass eye was amazing
17:17:35 <Vorpal> I tried NixOS in qemu once, and it is awesome. The issue however is that it isn't very mature, there isn't a lot of software already available compared to the more established distros.
17:18:19 <elliott> it's ok kmc doesn't use software
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17:22:24 <kmc> heh
17:22:34 <kmc> i'm willing to do some amount of packaging work myself as well
17:22:48 <kmc> elliott: so what about security of package distribution
17:23:02 -!- Arc_Koen has quit (Quit: The struct held his beloved integer in his strong, protecting arms, his eyes like sapphire orbs staring into her own. "W-will you... Will you union me?").
17:23:03 <kmc> like, one thing i really like about debian is that they are super anal about everything being signed
17:23:11 <kmc> and they understand PKI and trust webs and whatever
17:23:22 -!- Arc_Koen has joined.
17:23:25 <kmc> whereas the rest of the world things "curl http://... | sudo sh -" is a great way to distribute software
17:23:53 <elliott> kmc: I think they might have signed packages? not sure
17:24:20 <kmc> ok
17:24:21 <elliott> nix supports user-local installs fwiw
17:24:24 <elliott> securely
17:24:28 <elliott> that doesn't mean the packages themselves are secure
17:24:37 <elliott> but you can limit the damage of a malicious packgae
17:24:40 <elliott> *package
17:24:50 <elliott> you might want to ask #nixos
17:24:57 <kmc> ok
17:24:58 <kmc> yes
17:25:22 <Vorpal> elliott, what if I would install sudo as user-local or something?
17:25:28 <elliott> well that wouldn't work
17:25:28 <kmc> i don't believe in user-level separation for vanilla linux desktops
17:25:29 <elliott> obviously
17:25:35 <kmc> there are too many ways around it
17:25:52 <elliott> kmc: well it works in nix, they have a very well-thought out system
17:25:54 <Vorpal> elliott, what would it do though? Just remove the suid bit?
17:25:55 <elliott> you can read the paper about it
17:26:00 <elliott> I think NixOS operates in this way by default, not sure
17:26:16 <elliott> kmc: you could turn off the binary support entirely if you want to be paranoid and slow
17:26:34 <elliott> NixOS is actually a source-based distro whose package manager just happens to have an optimisation to download binaries instead
17:26:48 <kmc> elliott: the distribution you use doesn't affect the reasons i consider user isolation useless on a typical linux desktop
17:26:59 <elliott> they also do binary patches which is really cool (and necessary since otherwise library updates would have horrific rippling effects on everything depending on it)
17:27:07 <kmc> the main reason is just that all the shit i care about is in my account
17:27:14 <Vorpal> <kmc> and they understand PKI and trust webs and whatever <-- wasn't it debian who broke openssl security or something by commenting out some code?
17:27:26 <elliott> kmc: well the thing is that it's sort of inherent to the nixos system that his happens, it's not something you specifically install or whatever
17:27:36 <kmc> if an attacker can get my gmail password and all my secret files, why do i care if they also get root
17:27:44 <elliott> there is a global nix store of pure packages and user-local environments
17:27:51 <elliott> not saying this gives you the user additional security
17:27:53 <elliott> just that it's true
17:27:55 <kmc> yeah
17:28:06 <elliott> well I think you do need root to add to the store by default because they use source-based hashes not binary-based
17:28:06 <kmc> anyway
17:28:09 <elliott> I don't know what you do to flip that over
17:28:22 <kmc> i'm more concerned about whether someone can MITM my connection and send me bad packages
17:28:29 <kmc> which debian prevents using crypto
17:28:43 <kmc> but most people seem to not give a shit about
17:28:50 <kmc> see also: hackage, pypi, etc
17:28:53 <elliott> anyway you should read http://hydra.nixos.org/build/3479976/download/1/nixos/manual.html and http://hydra.nixos.org/build/3488542/download/1/manual/, possibly in reverse order
17:29:02 <elliott> kmc: I don't really think NixOS cares much more than average there yeah
17:29:16 <kmc> at least the new hipster hegemony serves things from github, which has ssl
17:29:16 <elliott> since it skews heavily on the research/experimental side of things
17:29:32 <Vorpal> kmc, arch linux does signed packages nowdays iirc
17:29:33 <kmc> so i only have to trust some brogrammers who kind of understand how to configure rails
17:29:46 <kmc> i'm sure that Red Hat does as well, since they are Serious Business
17:30:21 <Deewiant> Vorpal: Yes, it does
17:30:41 <Vorpal> Deewiant, does it do split debug symbols properly yet?
17:30:57 <Deewiant> Not that I know of (or care).
17:31:05 <kmc> but i mean "signs packages" is only one part of the story
17:31:17 <kmc> who has keys, and how is trust in those keys established
17:31:24 <Vorpal> well obviously
17:31:37 <Deewiant> https://www.archlinux.org/master-keys/
17:32:08 <kmc> i got into a long argument with the CentOS people about whether serving a SHA1SUMS file from the same directory as the .iso image over unencrypted HTTP was some powerful security measure
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17:32:42 <FreeFull> Heheh
17:33:20 <FreeFull> kmc: I think it's more of a measure against corrupted or incomplete downloads anyway
17:33:22 <kmc> it does help against evil mirrors but not against MITM attackers
17:33:48 <kmc> FreeFull: that may be the original intent, but the misconception that it's powerful security is widespread
17:34:41 <Vorpal> what does grub error 15 mean I wonder... sigh
17:34:56 <sgeo> I should probably start actually using SHA1SUMS files
17:35:03 <elliott> I don't even bother verifying checksums
17:35:08 <kmc> shachaf: speaking of XSS holes in CUPS, http://seclists.org/bugtraq/2008/Jan/270
17:35:55 <kmc> http://localhost.citibank.com:631/jobs/?job_printer_uri=javascript:alert(document.cookie)
17:35:58 <kmc> yes localhost.citibank.com has address
17:36:07 <FreeFull> Vorpal: A file grub expects to be there, isn't
17:36:35 <Vorpal> FreeFull, grub 1 or 2?
17:36:43 <elliott> grub 2 has actual error messages
17:36:47 <elliott> (why are you using grub 1)
17:36:53 <Vorpal> well, why is grub 1 still on sda and sdb then
17:36:55 <kmc> localhost.fbi.gov has address
17:36:57 <FreeFull> I used to use grub 1 but now use syslinux
17:37:01 <Vorpal> I guess the installer didn't install on the right MBR?
17:37:15 <elliott> kmc: I doubt internal FBI stuff is on fbi.gov at least
17:37:22 <FreeFull> Vorpal: Possibly, try booting from a different drive
17:37:26 <Vorpal> elliott, I'm not. Or it appears I am because debian installer didn't understand my disk
17:38:01 <kmc> elliott: why do you doubt that
17:38:26 <Vorpal> FreeFull, I did, I tried sda & sdb, sdc is windows, so that would be a waste of time. the ssd at sdd though? hm
17:38:53 <elliott> kmc: well I know they have fancy ~super secret~ intranet stuff
17:39:07 <elliott> which I imagine is completely separate from their public web presence
17:39:18 <kmc> that assumes a degree of competence i am not willing to assume
17:39:35 <kmc> anyway it might be on a private network and still use fbi.gov hostnames and *.fbi.gov cookies
17:39:39 <elliott> where is that screenshot of that internal fbi wiki
17:39:44 <Phantom_Hoover> the military networks are definitely disjoint from the public internet
17:39:49 <Vorpal> FreeFull, anyway the installer said it installed on sda
17:39:52 <Vorpal> so I hope it did
17:40:06 <FreeFull> Vorpal: So you can boot into Windows fine?
17:40:12 <Vorpal> FreeFull, hm, yep
17:40:15 <elliott> hmm i cannot find it
17:40:27 <FreeFull> Also it's possible the installer's sda isn't grub's whatever
17:40:30 <Vorpal> FreeFull, the ssd says it isn't bootable
17:40:50 <Vorpal> FreeFull, well possibly, but sda and sdb have mdraid so that shouldn't matter
17:40:59 <Phantom_Hoover> or at least it was in the 80s
17:41:06 <Vorpal> I'm booting system rescue cd now to figure this out
17:41:26 <elliott> I blame kmc for suppressing this information
17:41:46 <kmc> so i guess my root of trust for Arch Linux is...typedef int f(float);
17:41:46 <kmc> f* p;
17:41:49 <kmc> uhhhh
17:41:51 <kmc> disregard
17:41:57 <kmc> so i guess my root of trust for Arch Linux is... StartCom
17:42:08 <kmc> but also typedef int f(float)
17:42:23 <Phantom_Hoover> q. does anyone here not use arch
17:42:28 <elliott> 17:41:46 <kmc> so i guess my root of trust for Arch Linux is...typedef int f(float);
17:42:31 <elliott> 17:41:46 <kmc> f* p;
17:42:34 <elliott> kmc: i thought you were itidus for a second
17:42:37 <elliott> 17:41:49 <kmc> uhhhh
17:42:38 <elliott> and just babbling
17:42:41 <elliott> 17:41:51 <kmc> disregard
17:42:53 <Phantom_Hoover> twist of the century
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17:44:30 <coppro> `quote
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17:44:34 <HackEgo> 364) <Gregor> You just went from "no sexualized ads" to "we have ads for dildos, but they're different for ads for Orangina" X-D
17:51:40 <AnotherTest> anyone mind explaining to me how BJ Foust exactly works, because I don't seem to get it entirely?
17:52:11 <Vorpal> FreeFull, yeah grub2 is not on any disk... How weird
17:52:13 <AnotherTest> *BF Joust
17:52:23 <FreeFull> Arch didn't even have signed packages until this year I think
17:52:42 <FreeFull> At least not outside of testing
17:53:45 <Deewiant> I can't remember when exactly Pacman 4 was released, but I seem to recall that at least [core] was 100% signed last December.
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17:58:13 <fizzie> AnotherTest: You write code, and then the code wins. Or loses, as the case may be.
17:59:23 <AnotherTest> I get that part, I just don't understand when they are executed
17:59:31 <AnotherTest> (they = the instructions)
17:59:41 <elliott> each program takes a turn to execute one instruction
17:59:47 <elliott> until someone wins or it times out
17:59:50 <AnotherTest> who takes the first turn?
18:00:13 <elliott> the left program, but I am pretty confident it doesn't matter
18:00:25 <elliott> (the left program is whichever one you decide is left)
18:02:02 -!- ogrom has joined.
18:02:58 <AnotherTest> Well, so for the "simple" program on http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/egojsout/index.php
18:03:11 <AnotherTest> If I did something like (-)*127[-+]
18:03:30 <AnotherTest> Then that would sometimes win
18:03:52 <AnotherTest> because the other program commits suicide
18:03:56 <elliott> you can see it wins on some tape lengths and not others
18:03:57 <elliott> if you press run
18:04:36 <AnotherTest> so it's probably a bad idea to make your flag be between 0 and 1
18:05:08 <elliott> AnotherTest: that's a shudder/vibrator strategy; see http://esolangs.org/wiki/BF_Joust_strategies#Shudder
18:05:14 <AnotherTest> because there is a high chance that the enemy will bring your flag to 0 for 2 cycles before you make him commit suicide?
18:05:28 <AnotherTest> oh there is a strategy page
18:05:41 <AnotherTest> I should probably try to read that first
18:05:43 <elliott> and see also http://esolangs.org/wiki/BF_Joust_strategies#Anti-shudder_clear
18:05:48 <elliott> yeah the strategy page is very in-depth
18:13:36 <FireFly> `ls bin
18:13:41 <HackEgo> ​? \ @ \ WELCOME \ 1l \ 2l \ addquote \ adjust \ allquotes \ anonlog \ asm \ axo \ bch \ befunge \ befunge98 \ bf \ bf16 \ bf32 \ bf8 \ boolfuck \ c \ calc \ cintercal \ clcintercal \ cxx \ define \ delquote \ dimensifuck \ etymology \ forget \ forth \ fortune \ frink \ fuck \ glass \ glypho \ google \ haskell \ hatesgeo \ hi \ jous
18:13:56 <FireFly> Where's the hill located, again?
18:14:54 <elliott> !bfjoust
18:14:54 <EgoBot> ​Use: !bfjoust <program name> <program> . Scoreboard, programs, and a description of score calculation are at http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/
18:16:21 -!- MDude has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds).
18:16:27 <FireFly> Ah
18:23:01 <Phantom_Hoover> `fuck
18:23:02 <HackEgo> No output.
18:23:05 <Phantom_Hoover> `fuck hello
18:23:07 <HackEgo> hello
18:23:17 <Phantom_Hoover> `cat bin/fuck
18:23:18 <HackEgo> ​#!/bin/sh \ printf "%s" "$1"
18:23:46 <Phantom_Hoover> `ls babies
18:23:47 <HackEgo> ls: cannot access babies: No such file or directory
18:25:55 <Gregor> FireFly: I haven't yet considered how to migrate competitive games to HackEgo.
18:26:41 -!- GreyKnight has joined.
18:26:50 <FireFly> `hi
18:26:51 <HackEgo> hi
18:26:57 <FireFly> `hatesgeo
18:26:59 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
18:26:59 <GreyKnight> `hi monqy
18:27:01 <HackEgo> hi
18:27:24 <FireFly> `run cat bin/{hi,hatesgeo}
18:27:25 -!- sebbu has joined.
18:27:25 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host).
18:27:25 -!- sebbu has joined.
18:27:26 <HackEgo> echo hi \ #!/bin/sh \ perl -n -e '/:(.*?)!.*JOIN/; $j{$1}++; END {print "$_ $j{$_};" for sort {$j{$b} <=> $j{$a}} keys %j}' $@
18:27:27 <HackEgo> No output.
18:27:56 <GreyKnight> `addquote <kmc> so i guess my root of trust for Arch Linux is...typedef int f(float);
18:28:00 <HackEgo> 869) <kmc> so i guess my root of trust for Arch Linux is...typedef int f(float);
18:28:17 <FireFly> `glass
18:28:20 <HackEgo> OK
18:28:28 <FireFly> ...ok?
18:28:32 <Deewiant> OK!
18:28:37 <FireFly> `cat bin/glass
18:28:38 <HackEgo> ​#!/bin/sh \ . lib/interp \ interp_file "./interps/glass/glass ./interps/glass/cache"
18:29:11 <Gregor> `glass {M[m ... hmm. I no longer remember glass well enough to just write some X-D
18:29:51 <FireFly> `run ls *interp*
18:29:52 <HackEgo> 1l \ 2l \ adjust \ axo \ befunge \ bfjoust \ bf_txtgen \ boof \ build.sh \ cfunge \ c-intercal \ clc-intercal \ dimensifuck \ egobch \ egobf \ fukyorbrane \ gcccomp \ gforth_quit \ ghc \ glass \ glypho \ kipple \ lambda \ lazyk \ linguine \ Makefile \ malbolge \ pbrain \ qbf \ rail \ rhotor \ sadol \ sceql \ trigger \ udage01 \ underload \ unlambda
18:30:22 <FireFly> `run echo $PATH
18:30:23 <HackEgo> ​/hackenv/bin:/opt/python27/bin:/opt/ghc/bin:/usr/bin:/bin
18:30:57 <elliott> this hackegobot merge does not seem to be functioning perfectly :P
18:31:11 <elliott> btw how will bf joust being on hackego interact with the repo history getting wiped
18:31:39 <Gregor> elliott: (a) hopefully I don't need to wipe repo history any more, (b) that's the problem, innit ;)
18:32:52 <Gregor> Also, I haven't seen any bugs in what actually /is/ merged yet...
18:33:00 <FireFly> `run bf_txtgen "do the binaries in here work?"
18:33:01 <HackEgo> bash: bf_txtgen: command not found
18:33:06 <FireFly> er
18:33:08 <Gregor> bf_txtgen isn't merged yet ;)
18:33:18 <FireFly> `run *interp*/bf_txtgen "do the binaries in here work?"
18:33:20 <HackEgo> bash: interps/bf_txtgen: is a directory
18:33:23 <FireFly> oh
18:33:32 <elliott> Gregor: You've seen a bug in what's merged, you just papered over it :P
18:33:42 <Gregor> ?
18:33:44 <Gregor> What bug?
18:34:02 <elliott> Stuff that does #!/usr/bin/env perl was broken because bin/perl was your user interface to Perl.
18:34:14 <Gregor> Oh ^^´
18:34:16 * elliott thinks interpreter stuff should just have its own separate bin/ accessed by "!foo" rather than "`foo"
18:34:24 <Gregor> Nurr nurr nurr.
18:34:27 <elliott> that would also make `ls bin more useful when messing with hackegoy commands and stuff
18:34:53 <Gregor> The whole thing is that I don't want there to BE a distinction between HackEgoy stuff and EgoBoty stuff. I want there to be one bot X-D
18:35:04 <elliott> My point is that there is inherently a distinction in some ways
18:35:07 <FireFly> They could be separate dirs and both could be in $PATH?
18:35:07 <Gregor> I don't want there to be two bots with a single manifestation.
18:35:22 <elliott> stuff in bin/ gets seen internally rather than just being UI and there are namespace overlaps
18:35:59 <elliott> and it's kind of inconvenient to have a bunch of mostly-trivial wrapper scripts inamongst the code that people actually wrote for the bot
18:36:04 <elliott> and edit regularly
18:36:24 <FireFly> command eval could prefix interps-bin to $PATH or something
18:36:25 <FireFly> Hm
18:36:30 <FireFly> Maybe that wouldn't help..
18:37:08 <elliott> The distinction between "`eval foo" and "!foo" is just that the latter is less convenient
18:37:24 <elliott> though implementing "!foo ..." by mapping it to "`interp foo ..." would make total sense
18:37:25 <Gregor> *former
18:37:30 <elliott> er yes
18:37:32 <elliott> Gregor: would that be merged enough?
18:37:41 <elliott> that way you could totally customise the !foo behaviour, it would just be another entry point to the bot
18:37:54 <elliott> it is basically just a namespacing/clutter issue to me, shrug
18:38:13 <elliott> note that I'm not saying the distinction should be "which bot had the command originally"
18:38:20 <elliott> for instance it makes sense for bfjoust to be `bfjoust IMO
18:38:26 <elliott> `perl, not so much
18:38:37 <Gregor> `run mkdir ibins; for i in bin/*; do if [ "`grep '\. lib/interp' $i`" ]; then mv $i ibin/; fi; done; printf '#!/bin/sh\nCMD=`cut -d' ' -f1 "$1"`\nARG=`cut -d' ' -f2- "$2"`\nexec ibin/$CMD "$ARG"' > bin/interp; chmod 0755 bin/interp
18:38:40 <elliott> (oh one solution to repo-wiping would be for the bfjoust stuff to maintain its own nested hg repo...)
18:38:52 <elliott> Gregor: I hope you didn't test that first
18:38:59 <Gregor> Testing is for losers.
18:39:15 <HackEgo> mkdir: cannot create directory `ibins': File exists \ mv: target `ibin/' is not a directory \ mv: cannot move `bin/1l' to `ibin/': Not a directory \ mv: cannot move `bin/2l' to `ibin/': Not a directory \ mv: cannot move `bin/adjust' to `ibin/': Not a directory \ mv: cannot move `bin/asm' to `ibin/': Not a directory \ mv: cannot move `bin/axo' to `i
18:39:24 <Gregor> lol
18:39:27 <elliott> gratzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
18:39:45 <Gregor> `revert
18:39:46 <HackEgo> Done.
18:39:47 <elliott> Gregor: idea: if a command causes a commit but gives no output, HackEgo gives a link to the hg web interface commit
18:39:51 <Gregor> `run mkdir ibin; for i in bin/*; do if [ "`grep '\. lib/interp' $i`" ]; then mv $i ibin/; fi; done; printf '#!/bin/sh\nCMD=`cut -d' ' -f1 "$1"`\nARG=`cut -d' ' -f2- "$2"`\nexec ibin/$CMD "$ARG"' > bin/interp; chmod 0755 bin/interp
18:39:51 <elliott> so you can see if it worked
18:40:09 <Gregor> Oh, that's a nifty idea.
18:40:24 <elliott> arguably it should give a link even if it does give output, but for stuff like quotes it'd have to be two lines
18:40:26 <HackEgo> mkdir: cannot create directory `ibin': File exists \ grep: bin/@: No such file or directory \ grep: bin/c: No such file or directory \ grep: bin/k: No such file or directory
18:40:27 <elliott> maybe that would be fine
18:40:31 <elliott> commands that write aren't very common
18:40:46 <elliott> and you can omit the "No output." line if you are linking a commit on another line
18:41:24 <elliott> alternatively you could shorten the urls to http://codu.org/e/dfigj or something and then just include it at the end of every line that touches stuff
18:41:33 <elliott> I guess a shorter cutoff for commands that cause modifications is no big deal
18:41:45 <Gregor> It might be valuable to have some very small, out-of-the-way mention that it DID produce output, without showing a full URL. You can always find the URL easily enouogh.
18:42:14 <Gregor> `interp bf >+++++++++[<++++++++>-]<.>+++++++[<++++>-]<+.+++++++..+++.
18:42:15 <HackEgo> ​/hackenv/bin/interp: 2: Syntax error: EOF in backquote substitution
18:42:20 <Gregor> Dern :)
18:42:22 <elliott> I find it a bit of a pain to find the fshg URL and then refresh a bunch
18:42:27 <elliott> hence why a link would be handy when messing with stuff IMO
18:42:35 <Gregor> Fair 'nuff.
18:44:08 <GreyKnight> I second the !foo proposal
18:44:12 <Gregor> `run printf '#!/bin/sh\nCMD=`cut -d'\'' '\'' -f1 "$1"`\nARG=`cut -d'\'' '\'' -f2- "$2"`\nexec ibin/$CMD "$ARG"' > bin/interp; chmod 0755 bin/interp
18:44:15 <HackEgo> No output.
18:44:18 <Gregor> `cat bin/interp
18:44:19 <elliott> I think Gregor is implementing said proposal right now :P
18:44:19 <HackEgo> ​#!/bin/sh \ CMD=`cut -d' ' -f1 "$1"` \ ARG=`cut -d' ' -f2- "$2"` \ exec ibin/$CMD "$ARG"
18:44:24 <Gregor> `interp bf >+++++++++[<++++++++>-]<.>+++++++[<++++>-]<+.+++++++..+++.
18:44:25 <HackEgo> cut: bf >+++++++++[<++++++++>-]<.>+++++++[<++++>-]<+.+++++++..+++.: No such file or directory \ cut: : No such file or directory \ exec: 4: ibin/: Permission denied
18:44:34 <GreyKnight> Gregor: Also please can has lua/luarocks :-)
18:44:35 <elliott> Gregor: echo "$1" | cut ...
18:44:36 <Gregor> I suck at this apparently X-D
18:44:41 <elliott> HTH HAND
18:44:45 <elliott> cut takes a file.
18:44:45 <Gregor> Oh, heh X_X
18:45:05 <Gregor> `run printf '#!/bin/sh\nCMD=`echo "$1" | cut -d'\'' '\'' -f1`\nARG=`echo "$1" | cut -d'\'' '\'' -f2-`\nexec ibin/$CMD "$ARG"' > bin/interp; chmod 0755 bin/interp
18:45:05 <elliott> Gregor: I have an idea... why don't you just make "!foo bar baz" pass along two args, "foo" and "bar baz" :P
18:45:08 <HackEgo> No output.
18:45:14 <elliott> Then you can do the splitting in multibot Python rather than HackEgo sh.
18:45:17 <kmc> hex editing linux kernel modules to support new hardware, like a boss
18:45:21 <Gregor> elliott: I can't use ! yet since EgoBot is still alive.
18:45:24 <elliott> Mmm
18:45:24 <Gregor> elliott: This is a stopgap.
18:45:27 <elliott> Gregor: How about ``
18:45:31 <elliott> I guess interp works for now though
18:45:38 <Gregor> `interp bf >+++++++++[<++++++++>-]<.>+++++++[<++++>-]<+.+++++++..+++.
18:45:40 <HackEgo> Hello
18:45:48 <elliott> sweet
18:45:53 <elliott> `ls bin
18:45:54 <HackEgo> ​WELCOME \ addquote \ allquotes \ anonlog \ calc \ define \ delquote \ etymology \ forget \ fortune \ frink \ fuck \ google \ hatesgeo \ hi \ interp \ joustreport \ jousturl \ json \ karma \ karma- \ karma+ \ learn \ log \ logurl \ macro \ maketext \ marco \ No \ paste \ pastefortunes \ pastekarma \ pastelog \ pastelogs \ pastenquot
18:46:08 <FreeFull> `pastenquot
18:46:09 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: pastenquot: not found
18:46:19 <Gregor> `pastaquote
18:46:20 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: pastaquote: not found
18:46:24 <elliott> Gregor: Where's my "..." cutoff
18:46:28 <elliott> Is this WELCOME's fault
18:46:32 <Gregor> lul
18:46:35 <elliott> `run ls bin | paste
18:46:38 <FreeFull> `maketext
18:46:39 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.15092
18:46:40 <HackEgo> ls: cannot access maketext: No such file or directory \ /hackenv/bin/maketext: line 2: maketext/0: No such file or directory \ 0
18:46:53 <FreeFull> `run maketext
18:46:55 <HackEgo> ls: cannot access maketext: No such file or directory \ /hackenv/bin/maketext: line 2: maketext/0: No such file or directory \ 0
18:46:57 <elliott> Hmm, it would be nice to have something that automatically does | paste
18:47:01 <Gregor> `run printf '#!/bin/sh\nexec quote pasta' > bin/pastaquote; chmod 0755 bin/pastaquote
18:47:04 <HackEgo> No output.
18:47:08 <Gregor> `pastaquote
18:47:09 <HackEgo> No output.
18:47:32 <monqy> `quote pasta
18:47:33 <HackEgo> No output.
18:47:36 <GreyKnight> We can use ¡foo as a stand-in :o)
18:47:37 <sgeo> Ketchup on pasta is delicious.
18:47:47 <monqy> sgeo
18:47:58 <Gregor> GreyKnight: How big is luarocks? Can you just install it yourself? X-D
18:48:30 <elliott> `cat ibin/bf
18:48:31 -!- HackEgo has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
18:48:34 <elliott> Cool
18:48:43 <monqy> coool
18:48:51 <GreyKnight> Hm, maybe with the right curl invocation I could! It is not that large
18:48:55 <Gregor> O_O
18:49:01 <Gregor> Well THAT should never happen
18:49:17 <Gregor> GreyKnight: Can't use curl directly, but you can use `fetch .
18:49:28 <GreyKnight> Hm okay
18:49:51 <fizzie> fungot: Are you jealous of how everyone else's bot is getting all kinds of attention while you last got a code-change years ago?
18:49:52 <fungot> fizzie: i'm not a racist i just i always seem to raise it around the holidays like christmas and mn it
18:50:06 <GreyKnight> I will do it when I am not dog-tired as currently, that condition tends to interact badly with installing anything
18:50:18 <elliott> fizzie: I think now would be a good time to change fungot.
18:50:19 <fungot> elliott: i don't remember getting taught in school that they go to sleep
18:50:31 -!- HackEgo has joined.
18:50:32 <elliott> fizzie: In anticipation for its moving to Deewiant's fancy new interpreter???
18:50:32 <GreyKnight> fizzie, what can we add to fungot? He is perfect in every way
18:50:32 <fungot> GreyKnight: ( ( like what))
18:50:36 <elliott> fizzie: You have to move it to Shiro 2 also
18:50:41 <elliott> `cat ibin/bf
18:50:42 <HackEgo> ​#!/bin/sh \ . lib/interp \ \ # Get the bitwidth from the command \ BW=`echo "$CMD" | sed 's/bf//'` \ if [ "$BW" = "" ] ; then BW=8 ; fi \ \ interp_file ./interps/egobf/src/egobfi$BW
18:50:47 <GreyKnight> Case in point
18:51:11 <elliott> Gregor: Hypothesis: the vast majority of ibin/ is redundant to interps/ and `interp could handle it itself.
18:51:25 <elliott> `run cd ibin; more * | paste
18:51:28 <Vorpal> FreeFull, yay, I now got grub 2, I get a rescue prompt now
18:51:29 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.16839
18:51:39 <Gregor> elliott: No, definitely not. They all have different standards for how to take input. File, stdin, need flags, etc etc.
18:51:41 <fizzie> GreyKnight: There are bugs in the babbling, I think. It's not implementing the algo-rhythm correctly. I think.
18:51:52 <Gregor> elliott: interp is just raw interpreters, ibin/ is "make this interpreter take some damned code"
18:51:52 <elliott> Gregor: Congrats on accidentally moving ? and @.
18:51:58 <elliott> `run mv ibin/"?" bin
18:52:01 <elliott> `run mv ibin/"@" bin
18:52:02 <HackEgo> No output.
18:52:04 <Gregor> Um, oops :)
18:52:05 <HackEgo> No output.
18:52:12 <elliott> Gregor: Nice, there is an ibin/sh
18:52:17 <Gregor> elliott: Stop complaining when it's SO EASY TO FIX.
18:52:18 <elliott> That was on the path and nobody even noticed
18:52:20 <Gregor> X-D
18:52:27 <FreeFull> Vorpal: Did you have to install it manually
18:52:46 <elliott> Gregor: Anyway what I mean is that the vast majority of these just seem to be interp_file, and `interp could handle that itself.
18:52:51 <Vorpal> FreeFull, yes, from a gentoo-based live cd. Oh the irony
18:53:00 <GreyKnight> `quote
18:53:02 <HackEgo> 816) <itidus21> and all this time I thought we were talking about postmodern analysis of junk mail delivery methods and simulations of elephant breeding patterns
18:53:06 <elliott> Well, except that the executables in interps/ have different names, but that seems fixable.
18:53:07 <Vorpal> FreeFull, still, it can't find anything
18:53:17 <FreeFull> Vorpal: Gentoo live cds are the way to install any other distro manually
18:53:30 -!- Bike has joined.
18:53:35 <elliott> Oh hey, you could just shorten these by making lib/interp a valid #! interpreter
18:53:38 <elliott> Maybe I should do that
18:53:38 <elliott> `cat lib/interp
18:53:40 <Vorpal> FreeFull, well, system rescue cd is an extremely good live cd
18:53:40 <HackEgo> ​#!/bin/sh \ \ export I_CMD="$0" \ export I_ARG="$1" \ export ARG_FILE="/tmp/input.$$" \ \ get_arg() { \ #if expr "$I_ARG" : "http://" > /dev/null \ #then \ # wget $WGET_OPTIONS "$I_ARG" -O "$ARG_FILE" \ #else \ printf '%s' "$I_ARG" > "$ARG_FILE" \ #fi \ } \ \ clean_arg() { \ rm -f "$ARG_FILE" \ } \ \ interp
18:53:46 <elliott> `url lib/interp
18:53:47 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/lib/interp
18:53:54 <Vorpal> FreeFull, and gentoo-based
18:54:02 <elliott> Gregor: I see this doesn't use the HTTP proxy
18:55:15 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
18:55:21 <elliott> How does this sound for reducing the clutteriness of ibin/: Rather than `interp running the file in ibin directly, make `interp start sh and source lib/interp and then source ibin/$foo. Then they'd just be one-liners. I have no idea why this is better but it feels better.
18:55:25 <Vorpal> FreeFull, you know what, grub 1 was so much easier to get working...
18:55:41 -!- sebbu has joined.
18:55:41 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host).
18:55:41 -!- sebbu has joined.
18:55:42 <elliott> GRUB 2 is trivial to get working if you don't have a supercomplicated LVM RAID setup.
18:55:54 <FreeFull> Vorpal: SYSLINUX is pretty easy
18:57:05 <Vorpal> elliott, not super complicated. For /boot it is just plain mdraid
18:57:22 <Vorpal> elliott, the issue is that linux and grub doesn't agree on which device is sda, sdb and so on
18:57:50 <Vorpal> I believe that at least
18:57:59 <elliott> Vorpal: grub doesn't even use "sda".
18:58:12 <elliott> Partitions are numbered from 1 in grub2, if that's what you mean.
18:58:25 <Vorpal> elliott, exactly, but it maps hd1 to sda and so on when doing grub-install from linux
18:58:32 <Vorpal> and that mapping is off
18:58:39 <Vorpal> and figuring out the correct mapping is a pain
18:58:47 <elliott> `java
18:58:50 <HackEgo> Usage: java [-options] class [args...] \ (to execute a class) \ or java [-options] -jar jarfile [args...] \ (to execute a jar file) \ where options include: \ -d32 use a 32-bit data model if available \ -d64 use a 64-bit data model if available \ -server to select the "server" VM \ The d
18:59:12 <elliott> `interp c printf("abc");
18:59:21 <elliott> !c printf("abcd");
18:59:27 <EgoBot> abcd
18:59:29 <HackEgo> Does not compile. \ ./interps/gcccomp/gcccomp: fork: retry: Resource temporarily unavailable \ ./interps/gcccomp/gcccomp: fork: retry: Resource temporarily unavailable \ ./interps/gcccomp/gcccomp: fork: retry: Resource temporarily unavailable \ ./interps/gcccomp/gcccomp: fork: retry: Resource temporarily unavailable \ ./interps/gcccomp/gcccomp: for
18:59:36 <elliott> Gregor: Good merge
18:59:46 <Vorpal> ah, I can get a device map with ls
19:00:07 <Vorpal> if I write it down I can compare the partition layout to figure out which device is which
19:00:09 <elliott> `cat ibin/k
19:00:10 <HackEgo> ​#!/bin/sh \ echo '!"#$%^&* 0123456789'
19:00:13 <GreyKnight> fork ALL the processes
19:00:16 <elliott> `ls interps/k
19:00:17 <HackEgo> ls: cannot access interps/k: No such file or directory
19:00:20 <elliott> i don't get it
19:01:04 <Gregor> lol
19:01:19 <GreyKnight> `ls interps
19:01:21 <HackEgo> 1l \ 2l \ adjust \ axo \ befunge \ bfjoust \ bf_txtgen \ boof \ build.sh \ cfunge \ c-intercal \ clc-intercal \ dimensifuck \ egobch \ egobf \ fukyorbrane \ gcccomp \ gforth_quit \ ghc \ glass \ glypho \ kipple \ lambda \ lazyk \ linguine \ Makefile \ malbolge \ pbrain \ qbf \ rail \ rhotor \ sadol \ sceql \ trigger \ udage01 \ underload \ unlambda
19:01:28 <elliott> `interp c printf("Giving Gregor the benefit of the doubt by trying again");
19:01:45 <HackEgo> cat: Gregor: No such file or directory \ Does not compile. \ ./interps/gcccomp/gcccomp: fork: retry: Resource temporarily unavailable \ ./interps/gcccomp/gcccomp: fork: retry: Resource temporarily unavailable \ ./interps/gcccomp/gcccomp: fork: retry: Resource temporarily unavailable \ ./interps/gcccomp/gcccomp: fork: retry: Resource temporarily una
19:01:56 <Gregor> `cat interps/gcccomp
19:01:57 <HackEgo> cat: interps/gcccomp: Is a directory
19:01:58 <Gregor> `cat interps/gcccomp/gcccomp
19:02:00 <HackEgo> ​#!/bin/bash \ LANG="$1" \ \ case "$LANG" in \ c) \ HEAD='#include <stdio.h>\n#include <stdlib.h>\n#include <string.h>\n#include <sys/types.h>\n#include <unistd.h>\nint main(int argc, char **argv) {' \ TAIL='; return 0; }' \ EXT='c' \ GCC='gcc' \ FLAGS='-std=gnu99' \ ;; \ \ c++) \ HEAD
19:02:12 <Gregor> Oy vey X-D
19:02:14 <elliott> Shouldn't that $1 be $0
19:02:25 <elliott> ::::::::::::::
19:02:25 <elliott> c
19:02:26 <elliott> ::::::::::::::
19:02:26 <elliott> #!/bin/sh
19:02:26 <elliott> . lib/interp
19:02:27 <elliott> interp_file "./interps/gcccomp/gcccomp $1"
19:02:30 <elliott> I don't get how this could possibly work
19:04:38 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
19:08:48 <Vorpal> so yeah the device map was definitely off
19:10:07 <Vorpal> elliott, wow, debian gave me 800x600 on a 1680x1050 monitor
19:10:19 <Vorpal> I guess I need catalyst
19:10:31 <Vorpal> also gnome 3?
19:11:02 <elliott> why do you need gnome 3
19:11:07 <Vorpal> elliott, I don't
19:11:12 <elliott> oh it installed it?
19:11:15 <elliott> did you install stable or something
19:11:17 <Vorpal> I'm just confused by debian testing gave me gnome 3
19:11:20 <Vorpal> elliott, testing
19:11:24 <elliott> are you sure it's testing
19:11:26 <elliott> where did you get the install media from
19:11:31 <Vorpal> elliott, unetbootin
19:11:37 <Vorpal> netinstall
19:11:40 <elliott> where did unetbootin get the install media from
19:11:41 <Vorpal> it said testing
19:12:03 <Vorpal> elliott, the magic drop down box, with the option marked "netinstall_testing x86-64"
19:12:12 <Vorpal> anyway let me check lsb_release
19:12:27 <Vorpal> elliott, wheezy
19:12:32 <Vorpal> whichever one that is
19:13:07 <kmc> testing
19:16:03 <FreeFull> `:( : | : & );:
19:16:04 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: :(: not found
19:16:17 <FreeFull> `bash -e ':( : | : & );:'
19:16:18 <HackEgo> bash: - : invalid option
19:16:19 <Vorpal> you want run
19:16:26 <Vorpal> `run :( : | : & );:
19:16:27 <HackEgo> bash: -c: line 0: syntax error near unexpected token `:' \ bash: -c: line 0: `:( : | : & );:'
19:16:30 <Vorpal> hm
19:16:33 <Vorpal> `run ls
19:16:35 <HackEgo> bin \ canary \ egobot.tar.xz \ foo \ ibin \ ibins \ interps \ karma \ lib \ paste \ quotes \ share \ wisdom \ zalgo \ zalgo.hi \ zalgo.hs \ zalgo.o
19:16:38 <FreeFull> `bash -c ':( : | : & );:'
19:16:40 <Vorpal> `run ls bin
19:16:40 <HackEgo> bash: - : invalid option \ Usage:bash [GNU long option] [option] ... \ bash [GNU long option] [option] script-file ... \ GNU long options: \ --debug \ --debugger \ --dump-po-strings \ --dump-strings \ --help \ --init-file \ --login \ --noediting \ --noprofile \ --norc \ --posix \ --protected \ --rcfile \ --restricted \ --verbose \
19:16:42 <HackEgo> ​? \ @ \ WELCOME \ addquote \ allquotes \ anonlog \ calc \ define \ delquote \ etymology \ forget \ fortune \ frink \ fuck \ google \ hatesgeo \ hi \ interp \ joustreport \ jousturl \ json \ karma \ karma- \ karma+ \ learn \ log \ logurl \ macro \ maketext \ marco \ No \ pastaquote \ paste \ pastefortunes \ pastekarma \ pastelog \ p
19:16:51 <Vorpal> `run :( : | : & ); :
19:16:52 <HackEgo> bash: -c: line 0: syntax error near unexpected token `:' \ bash: -c: line 0: `:( : | : & ); :'
19:16:54 <FreeFull> `run :( echo test );:
19:16:54 <Gregor> You want to do the command right.
19:16:55 <HackEgo> bash: -c: line 0: syntax error near unexpected token `echo' \ bash: -c: line 0: `:( echo test );:'
19:17:00 <Gregor> `run :{:|:&};:
19:17:01 -!- MDude has joined.
19:17:01 <HackEgo> bash: -c: line 0: syntax error near unexpected token `}' \ bash: -c: line 0: `:{:|:&};:'
19:17:04 <FreeFull> Yeah, wrong syntax
19:17:04 <Gregor> Oh
19:17:07 <kmc> try not fucking up
19:17:11 <FreeFull> `run :(){ echo test };:
19:17:13 <HackEgo> bash: -c: line 1: syntax error: unexpected end of file
19:17:23 <FreeFull> My memory sucks
19:17:24 <Gregor> Dahell X-D
19:17:26 <Vorpal> `run a(){ echo test };a
19:17:28 <HackEgo> bash: -c: line 1: syntax error: unexpected end of file
19:17:34 <Vorpal> Gregor, okay this /IS/ broken
19:18:01 <Vorpal> `run a(){ echo test; };a
19:18:03 <HackEgo> test
19:18:06 <Vorpal> no
19:18:07 <Vorpal> it isn't
19:18:10 <Gregor> X-D
19:18:12 <FreeFull> /bin/sh: -c: line 1: syntax error: unexpected end of file
19:18:15 <Gregor> `run :(){:|:&};:
19:18:17 <HackEgo> bash: -c: line 0: syntax error near unexpected token `{:' \ bash: -c: line 0: `:(){:|:&};:'
19:18:23 <Vorpal> :P
19:18:25 <Gregor> Ohwell, I'm lazy.
19:18:26 <Vorpal> syntax fail
19:18:27 <GreyKnight> Damn, beat me to it
19:18:27 <FreeFull> Needs a space
19:18:36 <Vorpal> `run :(){:|:&}; :
19:18:38 <HackEgo> bash: -c: line 0: syntax error near unexpected token `{:' \ bash: -c: line 0: `:(){:|:&}; :'
19:18:40 <Vorpal> `run :(){:|:&} :
19:18:41 <GreyKnight> (Modulo a formatting fail)
19:18:42 <FreeFull> `run :(){ :|:&};:
19:18:42 <HackEgo> bash: -c: line 0: syntax error near unexpected token `{:' \ bash: -c: line 0: `:(){:|:&} :'
19:18:44 <HackEgo> No output.
19:18:47 <Gregor> Why are these forkbombs so difficult!
19:18:55 <GreyKnight> {SPACE:
19:18:56 <Vorpal> `run :(){ : | : & } ; :
19:18:58 <HackEgo> No output.
19:19:07 <Vorpal> `run :(){ :|:&};:
19:19:09 <HackEgo> No output.
19:19:11 <Vorpal> yeah
19:20:34 <fizzie> "Note that unlike the metacharacters ( and ), { and } are reserved words and must occur where a reserved word is permitted to be recognized. Since they do not cause a word break, they must be separated from list by whitespace or another shell metacharacter."
19:20:47 <FreeFull> `run dd if=/dev/zero of=aaaa
19:20:55 <HackEgo> File size limit exceeded
19:20:59 <FreeFull> :D
19:21:09 <GreyKnight> fizzie: this seems pretty silly of course
19:21:25 <GreyKnight> But there I go with my earth logic again
19:21:41 <fizzie> GreyKnight: There was something equally silly related to whether a thing is on one line or not, too.
19:22:46 <GreyKnight> TODO: reinvent shell syntax
19:23:18 <fizzie> It's probably a rererereinvention at this point.
19:23:29 <GreyKnight> ...okay, it's a sign, I should try scheme shell
19:23:45 <GreyKnight> Sexprs would be a big improvement
19:27:26 <Vorpal> `ls
19:27:27 <HackEgo> aaaa \ bin \ canary \ egobot.tar.xz \ foo \ ibin \ ibins \ interps \ karma \ lib \ paste \ quotes \ share \ wisdom \ zalgo \ zalgo.hi \ zalgo.hs \ zalgo.o
19:27:30 <Vorpal> `rm aaaa
19:27:33 <HackEgo> No output.
19:29:53 -!- GreyKnight has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
19:52:02 -!- sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
19:52:29 -!- sgeo has joined.
19:58:41 -!- GreyKnight has joined.
20:00:00 <GreyKnight> `quote
20:00:02 <HackEgo> 675) <zzo38> I have a program to tell you how far away Jupiter is. It is 4.33 units far.
20:00:03 <GreyKnight> `quote
20:00:04 <GreyKnight> `quote
20:00:05 <HackEgo> 648) <monqy> i cnat eve begin to understand what you meant with that "one"
20:00:06 <GreyKnight> `quote
20:00:08 <GreyKnight> `quote
20:00:09 <HackEgo> 306) <crystal-cola> 3 = 7/2
20:00:09 <HackEgo> 33) <lacota> I guess when you're immortal, mapping your fonts isn't necessary
20:00:10 <HackEgo> 793) <mroman> You can't quote me.
20:00:53 -!- sebbu2 has joined.
20:00:53 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host).
20:00:53 -!- sebbu2 has joined.
20:01:18 <GreyKnight> either 648 or 793 I guess
20:01:27 <GreyKnight> the others are good
20:04:07 <FreeFull> > return Nothing
20:04:08 <monqy> 648 and 793 are bad but i think some people (elliott??) like 648
20:04:09 <lambdabot> No instance for (GHC.Show.Show (m0 (Data.Maybe.Maybe a0)))
20:04:09 <lambdabot> arising from ...
20:04:18 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
20:04:22 <FreeFull> > return $ Just 3
20:04:24 <lambdabot> No instance for (GHC.Show.Show (m0 (Data.Maybe.Maybe a0)))
20:04:24 <lambdabot> arising from ...
20:04:31 <monqy> FreeFull: what are you trying to do
20:04:35 <FreeFull> Huh
20:04:41 <FreeFull> Wait, nevermind
20:04:49 <FreeFull> > return 3 :: Maybe Integer
20:04:51 <lambdabot> Just 3
20:05:00 <FreeFull> > Nothing :: Maybe Integer
20:05:02 <lambdabot> Nothing
20:05:37 <FreeFull> That's what I was trying to do
20:05:48 <monqy> aha
20:06:21 <FreeFull> > return :: Maybe Integer
20:06:23 <lambdabot> Couldn't match expected type `Data.Maybe.Maybe
20:06:23 <lambdabot> ...
20:06:30 <GreyKnight> is there a Haskell-like shell, I wonder?
20:06:35 <kmc> shachaf: do you know about buzz filtering as an alternative to /ignore?
20:06:39 <Bike> hashell
20:07:04 <Bike> oh yep that turned up actual results. thank god for uncreativity and portmanteaus
20:07:10 <kmc> replaces the text someone sends with "Bz bzzzz, bzz bzzz" and such
20:07:15 <Vorpal> heh
20:07:20 <kmc> don't know if IRC clients implement this but it is popular on MIT Zephyr
20:07:27 <Vorpal> kmc, that sounds funny for the first 10 minutes
20:07:29 <FreeFull> hasnail
20:07:36 * GreyKnight high-fives Bike ,o/
20:07:38 <Fiora> I made an irssi ignore script that blacks out ignored text
20:07:41 <Fiora> but doesn't remove it
20:07:47 <Fiora> so I can hilight it if I want to read it
20:07:53 <elliott> how do you resist highlighting it
20:07:55 <Fiora> it makes it easier to follow conversations where one person is ignored
20:08:03 <Fiora> because otherwise you don't see where they posted things so it gets confusing
20:08:07 <Fiora> or like who someone is responding to
20:08:18 <GreyKnight> Fiora: I like this approach
20:08:22 <Fiora> because hilighting things in putty is annoying >_>;;
20:08:26 <sgeo> I think I've played with Gale once
20:08:28 <kmc> Fiora: that's a clever solution
20:09:00 <sgeo> Using Yammer, which seems to have been down since forever
20:09:01 <Fiora> http://privatepaste.com/9de8939130
20:09:01 <sgeo> :(
20:09:24 <Fiora> it's kind of icky because I have no idea how to write perl
20:09:56 <Bike> i don't think it's possible to write perl that isn't at least somewhat icky, i think you're good
20:10:06 <kmc> sgeo: wow, Gale is even more obscure than Zephyr
20:11:44 <sgeo> I found it via Wikipedia
20:11:51 <GreyKnight> Fiora: that is some of the clearest Perl I've seen in a while TBH :-P
20:11:53 <sgeo> iirc
20:12:07 <Fiora> GreyKnight: I copied it from another script, the only thing I changed was the theme_register line
20:12:13 <shachaf> kmc: Nope.
20:12:14 <kmc> afaik Gale is only used by current and former sysadmins for the student computing group at Caltech
20:12:19 <GreyKnight> so, yeah, I guess you *do* have no idea how to write perl properly :o)
20:12:26 <Fiora> Pfff XD
20:12:26 <GreyKnight> oh, okay
20:12:38 <kmc> shachaf: did you see that CUPS XSS thing?
20:12:40 <shachaf> Seems strictly worse than /ignore, except that you don't get confused.
20:12:48 <Fiora> perl being line noise jokes, teehee
20:12:55 <GreyKnight> so, strictly better
20:12:59 <shachaf> kmc: Yep.
20:13:07 <sgeo> Gregor, suppose someone is flooding the channel
20:13:07 <shachaf> I should report my bugs.
20:13:11 <kmc> it's in that book as well
20:13:20 <sgeo> The way to fix that would probably be to coalesce multiple bzz lines into one
20:13:23 <shachaf> And order that book, I guess.
20:13:31 <kmc> sgeo: or use a temporary /ignore then
20:13:35 <kmc> or just count on ops kicking flooders
20:13:41 <Fiora> the main reason I ignore is because of people who frustrate me or are creepy or something
20:13:45 <Fiora> not because of like, spambots
20:13:52 <Fiora> since ops usually take care of those
20:14:02 <GreyKnight> Bike: Hashell "works only with old GHCs" :-/
20:14:08 <Fiora> and/or services I guess. though I don't know if esper does auto-ban for flood
20:14:13 <Bike> no! the horror
20:14:35 <GreyKnight> Upload date: Sun Jan 18 04:12:50 UTC 2009
20:15:14 <GreyKnight> Fiora: freenode boots you off the network if you send lines too fast, but there is no ban that I know of
20:15:21 <Fiora> ah, so just a kick
20:15:49 <Bike> the freenode spammers i've seen usually hit enough channels to wake up an oper and get themselves k-lined
20:16:00 <GreyKnight> well, off the whole network rather than just off the channel
20:16:33 <Fiora> I remember there was a spam thing where people spammed links that had javascript in the background that enlisted their own computer as a bot to connect to irc and spam more links
20:16:42 <GreyKnight> If you ever see me quitting with "Excess Flood" it's because my connection failed hard enough that several of my messages got backlogged and sent all at the same time :-/
20:17:30 <GreyKnight> (the server sees them arrive with no delay between messages and assumes I'm Up To No Good)
20:17:42 <Bike> Fiora: you mean the thing kmc was talking about like, yesterday
20:18:01 <Fiora> wait, really
20:18:02 <Fiora> I missed it
20:18:33 <Bike> some webpage that sent a specially crafted POST to freenode, that looked like connecting to irc + spamming the link
20:18:34 <GreyKnight> great minds think alike
20:18:49 <GreyKnight> freenode now interprets "POST" to mean "QUIT" for this reason :-D
20:18:54 <Fiora> ... XD
20:19:03 <Fiora> that's a solution
20:19:06 <GreyKnight> points for creativity
20:19:07 <kmc> and other HTTP verbs
20:19:18 <kmc> in fact XMLHttpRequest lets you use almost arbitrary verbs
20:19:27 <shachaf> kmc: I don't think you can do other HTTP verbs than GET and POST cross-domain, can you?
20:19:33 <shachaf> Without support from the other server, anyway.
20:19:37 <kmc> right
20:19:53 <kmc> does XHR even let you do cross-domain GET/POST?
20:19:59 <kmc> (without the CORS dance?)
20:20:04 -!- popl has joined.
20:20:06 <shachaf> I meant with the CORS thing.
20:20:18 <GreyKnight> CORS?
20:20:23 <popl> Is this channel for esoteric programming languages?
20:20:26 <shachaf> Once I wrote a somewhat complicated system to do cross-domain communication over <script>s and iframes.
20:20:31 <kmc> popl: in theory
20:20:31 <shachaf> `welcome popl
20:20:33 <popl> Oh, nevermind.
20:20:35 <HackEgo> popl: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
20:20:39 <popl> I just got a message.
20:20:44 <kmc> shachaf: https://github.com/videlalvaro/gifsockets
20:20:53 <hagb4rd> "if you let an infinite number of monkeys write an infinite number of texts, somewhere, somehow, you will get the full text of shakespears hamlet"
20:20:59 <popl> Do you know about the recent episode of Elementary?
20:21:20 <shachaf> kmc: You can't look at the contents of GIFs from other domains. :-(
20:21:31 <popl> shachaf: Thanks.
20:21:32 <elliott> elementary is that us sherlock thing right
20:21:32 <shachaf> I mean, you can't putImageData them onto a <canvas>.
20:21:46 <popl> elliott: Yes. A program written in Malbolge was a plot point.
20:21:54 <elliott> are you serious
20:21:56 <elliott> that is really cool
20:22:02 <Bike> "Since a gif image doesn't specify how many frames it has, once the browser opens it, it will keep waiting for new frames until you send the bits indicating that there's no more image to fetch" beautiful
20:22:05 <GreyKnight> flat what
20:22:12 <Fiora> wait, really O_O
20:22:18 <GreyKnight> Malbolge hit the big time?!
20:22:19 <popl> Yes, it was presumably used to attack some rng on some impregnable safe.
20:22:25 <kmc>
20:22:28 <elliott> maybe that means they looked at the wiki!
20:22:30 <elliott> finally we are famous
20:22:31 <Bike> i look forward to how TV can cock up malbolge
20:22:42 <kmc> what Bike said
20:22:52 <GreyKnight> Well, they had somebody actually *use* Malbolge for something, that sounds like a cockup already
20:22:54 <elliott> someone should tell ben olmstead, if he doesn't know
20:22:55 <kmc> obligatory: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2rGTXHvPCQ
20:22:56 <GreyKnight> :o)
20:23:11 <Bike> "this language is encrypted, so it's used for safecracking" or something
20:23:12 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu.
20:23:12 <popl> Bike: It was brief but the code is visible on screen. I did not manage to grab a screenshot.
20:23:22 <Bike> kmc: god i love that clip
20:23:36 <Bike> is there a "programming in fiction" wiki somewhere, like there is for guns?
20:23:54 <Fiora> kmc: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUFkb0d1kbU
20:24:13 <shachaf> kmc: Wait, that's not actually sending data that JS can see, is it?
20:24:26 <kmc> gifsockets? i don't know
20:24:26 <shachaf> It's just a streaming GIF encoded on the fly.
20:24:26 <Bike> "uncrop" nice
20:24:39 * shachaf wrote a GIF decoded in JavaScript once.
20:24:50 <shachaf> er
20:25:02 <GreyKnight> "uncrop" sounds like something from the C.S.I. magic computer
20:25:21 <Fiora> it's a parody of CSI XD
20:25:32 <GreyKnight> oh, good :-)
20:25:43 <GreyKnight> (I can't actually watch the video)
20:26:01 <Bike> GreyKnight: if you watch the clip, the next step involves finding a reflection, then finding a raindrop and looking at that reflection
20:27:02 <GreyKnight> related: http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii115/e46fanatic/CSI-1.jpg
20:27:42 <Bike> where's the still of the knife attack from?
20:27:43 <kmc> hehe
20:28:00 <Bike> «Today the data base has grown to list over 2600 films,[6] nearly 500 television shows,[7] over 450 video games[8] and close to 200 Anime series.[9]» right
20:28:00 <kmc> never mind that they're mixing the CSI: NY and CSI: Miami guys
20:28:35 <kmc> this reminds me, i should watch NTSF:SD:SUV::
20:28:57 <Bike> is that acronym a joke
20:29:22 <GreyKnight> Bike: I'll say one good thing about guillemet quotes. They form a balanced pair!
20:29:32 <kmc> Bike: yes
20:29:40 <kmc> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NTSF:SD:SUV::
20:29:54 <Bike> GreyKnight: that's basically why i use them
20:30:04 <Bike> sport utility vehicle <-- ah
20:30:31 <GreyKnight> shouldn't there be a type name after the ::
20:31:05 <Bike> so, speaking of types, does anyone happen to know if floating point is power associative?
20:31:09 <GreyKnight> NTSF:SD:SUV::[Char]
20:34:02 <ion> NTSF:SD:SUV:: is awesome.
20:34:28 -!- lifthrasiir has joined.
20:34:44 <hagb4rd> the CSI magic is nothing compared to the good old fashioned Esper Photo Analysis http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkcU0gwZUdg
20:35:29 -!- lifthras1ir has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
20:35:36 <Bike> the blade runner soundtrack has a lot of that scene's audio in it
20:35:38 <Bike> it's a bit surreal
20:36:07 <GreyKnight> hagb4rd: I was just thinking about that!
20:36:34 <hagb4rd> wouldnt call this a synchronocity at all ;)
20:36:42 <GreyKnight> well okay :-P
20:36:45 <ion> http://anongallery.org/7670/well-the-resolutions-too-poor
20:36:51 <Bike> especially the pseudomechanical clanky noises
20:37:19 <kmc> that reminds me, i should finish watching the x-files as well
20:37:33 <GreyKnight> ion: is that caption a quote from an X-Files episode?
20:38:07 <ion> greyknight: http://www.insidethex.co.uk/transcrp/scrp105.htm
20:38:14 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds).
20:39:24 <Vorpal> anyone know how to switch default sound card and such when you have pulse audio?
20:39:32 <Vorpal> I always used pure ALSA or ALSA + jack before
20:39:37 <kmc> did you ever see the episode of the x-files written by william gibson
20:39:37 <GreyKnight> ahaha
20:39:39 <kmc> that one was dope
20:39:41 <kmc> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kill_Switch_(The_X-Files)
20:39:42 <popl> Vorpal: Are you asking in the correct channel?
20:39:54 <Vorpal> popl, I ask because I suspect fizzie knows
20:39:55 <Vorpal> :P
20:40:11 <popl> /msg fizzie ? :)
20:40:19 <Vorpal> *shrug*
20:40:31 <GreyKnight> someone might know!
20:40:32 <kmc> it starts with a malevolent AI placing phone calls to every criminal gang in the city, plus the US Marshals, telling them all that their respective enemies are at some particular diner
20:40:34 <popl> Anyways, I just wanted to let you people know about Elementary.
20:40:37 -!- oerjan has joined.
20:40:42 <popl> I thought you might be interested.
20:40:52 <ion> kmc: Huh. I have missed the fact that it was written by Gibson.
20:41:00 <popl> Someone could get a screen grab and try to transcribe the program.
20:41:01 <GreyKnight> popl: it was interesting!
20:41:17 <Deewiant> Vorpal: pavucontrol --> output devices
20:41:18 <GreyKnight> oerjan: Malbolge was on TV
20:41:46 <elliott> the real question is what you'd have to say in #esoteric to be in the wrong channel
20:42:03 <shachaf> elliott: I don't know but somehow I manage to do it.
20:42:06 <popl> I feel as if I may have overstepped the boundaries of netiquette by suggesting Vorpal was asking an offtopic question.
20:42:25 <popl> Especially considering today is the first time I've visited the channel.
20:42:27 <popl> Vorpal: Sorry.
20:42:32 <elliott> pfft, etiquette
20:42:43 <ion> pfetiquette
20:42:47 <elliott> I can assure you it is always permissible to complain to Vorpal
20:42:47 <kmc> this is a pretty rough & tumble place
20:42:59 <GreyKnight> teach shachaf about etiquette
20:43:00 <GreyKnight> s/to/about/
20:43:07 <GreyKnight> :-3
20:43:10 <shachaf> Vorpal: Were you being off-topic?
20:43:24 <shachaf> Come on, Vorpal!
20:43:43 <Bike> popl: as you may have noticed, this isn't the most on-topic of channels anyway. no worries
20:44:01 <popl> Vorpal: Sorry. I believe they are lighting torches. I will attempt to distract them while you make your escape.
20:44:24 * popl \o/ Over here guys!
20:44:35 * GreyKnight distributes pitchforks
20:44:35 <GreyKnight> None for you, fungot. I've got my eye on you.
20:44:36 <fungot> GreyKnight: oh okay this is my first child it was like well you know
20:44:40 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: Leaving.).
20:44:55 <hagb4rd> omg
20:44:58 <GreyKnight> fungot, I didn't even know you were pregnant!
20:44:58 <fungot> GreyKnight: i love comedy laughter once you get like the whole
20:44:59 <oerjan> (i might stop in a week. maybe.)
20:45:27 <oerjan> (no, that does not include writing into the wrong window.)
20:45:32 <GreyKnight> fungot, have I introduced you to popl by the way? Say hello
20:45:32 <fungot> GreyKnight: what about here we've got people right now are on sale for ten dollars for it
20:45:42 * Bike uses pitchfork, torches to make s'mores
20:45:50 <shachaf> ^style
20:45:51 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher* fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube
20:45:58 <shachaf> fungot
20:45:59 <fungot> shachaf: i'm fine how are you laughter laughter
20:46:11 <Bike> people sure say "laughter" on the phone a lot.
20:46:20 <GreyKnight> ^style agora
20:46:20 <fungot> Selected style: agora (a large selection of Agora rules, both current and historical)
20:46:22 <shachaf> Bike: laughter laughter laughter
20:46:39 <Bike> fungot, what is an "Agora rule"?
20:46:39 <fungot> Bike: 5. may: performing the duties required of eim by a board of appeal, who must choose from existing categories.
20:46:46 <GreyKnight> Er fungot we aren't allowed to sell people these days... It's considered rude.
20:46:46 <fungot> GreyKnight: ( b) if there were
20:46:47 <Bike> fungot, oh.
20:46:47 <fungot> Bike: a transfer order ( except when otherwise specified, the promotor distributes proposals, with the rules;
20:47:02 <GreyKnight> Bike: Agora nomic
20:47:14 <Bike> oh, that's gotta be complicated.
20:47:15 <fizzie> The goal of this style was to create new rules.
20:47:35 <Bike> i'm not sure it's working
20:47:37 <fizzie> Maybe not quite a "goal" but anyway.
20:47:40 <fizzie> It's not.
20:47:54 <Bike> one time in a nomic i made up a rule that was complicated enough that it was unanimously agreed to have it removed :(
20:48:02 <fizzie> If "goal" implies it was expected to work, then it wasn't a goal.
20:48:13 <fizzie> But you never know, of course.
20:48:35 <fizzie> Did someone do something with fungot-generated things? I can't quite remember.
20:48:36 <fungot> fizzie: at the end of every taxable entity, and can be made, the auctioneer shall announce in the
20:48:48 <shachaf> ^style darwin
20:48:48 <fungot> Selected style: darwin (Books by Charles Darwin -- you know, that evilution guy)
20:48:53 <shachaf> fungot
20:48:53 <Bike> agora seems to be a rather more complicated nomic, though
20:48:54 <fungot> shachaf: from/ foregoing several considerations we may conclude that their self-sterility has been gradually developed; and that almost simultaneously their reproductive powers. as far as i can discover, strictly gregarious, and/ colonists have not yet begun d'urville, and have fnord for several days in a warm room, and jumping out :)/ domain :) science,' 1868, s. 4.
20:49:05 -!- NihilistDandy has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.).
20:49:09 <Bike> but seriously is fp multiplication power associative
20:49:11 <shachaf> fungot...
20:49:11 <fungot> shachaf: fnord fnord this soon caused/ tentacles to become greatly flattened. one :) us has been fnord
20:49:15 <Bike> lives are possibly at stake here
20:49:23 -!- augur has quit (*.net *.split).
20:49:23 -!- pikhq has quit (*.net *.split).
20:49:38 <Bike> I didn't know Darwin was so fond of emoticons, fungot.
20:49:49 <fizzie> I should fix that thing, it would've been a good reply with the proper 'the' and 'of'.
20:49:54 <fungot> Bike: fig. 3. chinese honey peach. 4. cucullaea alta, g.b. sowerby. 9. " drosera rotundifolia.
20:49:57 <GreyKnight> If we don't settle the power-associative question, the netsplits will win!
20:50:25 <Bike> think of the augur(y)!
20:50:27 <fizzie> It's a little-known fact that Darwin wrote with a shorthand where / denoted "the" and :) denoted "of".
20:50:41 <oerjan> <fizzie> The goal of this style was to create new rules. <-- well agora had a frankenstein rule once, which was not _entirely_ dissimilar.
20:50:52 <GreyKnight> also he liked to slip fnords into his text
20:51:00 <Bike> fizzie: so is this some bizarre artifact of gutenberg, or
20:51:01 <shachaf> fungot
20:51:02 <fungot> shachaf: pot 9: 50 3? 8. pot 9: 47 6? 8.
20:51:13 <fizzie> Bike: No, it's my very own bug.
20:51:19 <hagb4rd> and whats lovecraft? related to hp lovecraft?
20:51:27 <Bike> i have to ask how the hell such a bug arises.
20:51:28 <shachaf> fungot
20:51:31 <fungot> shachaf: when a dog is :) his master's affection, if fnord with several species :) theridion " 23. boitard and corbie " 5? 13. mr. browne shot one: certainly it is a remarkable fact: i crossed in a marvellous manner in/ distribution :)/ marsupialia, which are now valued after/ formation :) mountain chains as connected, but quite distinct and level; a little southward :)/ rio cachapual, in which/ two sexes are no doubt related t
20:52:45 <oerjan> <Bike> agora seems to be a rather more complicated nomic, though <-- possibly the largest nomic that ever existed? almost certainly the oldest surviving.
20:53:04 <Bike> wow. i was just playing a card game.
20:53:16 <oerjan> <Bike> but seriously is fp multiplication power associative <-- wait what is this asking
20:53:35 <oerjan> oh floating point not functional programming
20:53:43 <kmc> oerjan: you mean other than the entirety of law around the globe
20:55:20 <Bike> it has four mailing lists. well
20:55:35 <fizzie> Bike: The details aren't terribly interesting, but if you insist. All words are converted internally into integers (indices in the token list) for easier processing; the first N values were reserved for punctuation and are converted back via fixed Funge-98 code; and there was a piece of code in the model-building that removed tokens that didn't occur more than K times. Back when the darwin ...
20:55:42 <fizzie> ... style was built, this filter didn't realize punctuation was exempt, and removed the :) and :( tokens from the list, causing everything else to shift back by two, so the two most common non-punctuation tokens (the, of) got indices reserved for punctuation and are therefore expressed as that in the output.
20:56:06 <fizzie> (Because Darwin in fact used no smileys.)
20:56:07 <Bike> fizzie: ah, neat.
20:56:13 <oerjan> Bike: what's the power associative question, i might be able to tell if i knew what the question _is_
20:56:36 <Bike> oerjan: basically, is fp multiplication associative in the special case where all the operands are the same number.
20:56:36 <oerjan> <- mathematician
20:56:53 <Bike> it's not associative in general, obviously
20:57:04 <GreyKnight> a*(a*a) == (a*a)*a ?
20:57:07 <oerjan> Bike: well in the trivial sense obviously, since a*(a*a) = (a*a)*a by commutativity
20:57:19 <Bike> yes, but more than that
20:57:33 <Bike> wikipedia has x(x(xx)) = (x(xx))x = (xx)(xx) as an example not covered by commutativity
20:58:19 <oerjan> Bike: i assume you mean whether it's associative for arbitrary _combinations_ of a single number. in which case, no.
20:58:22 <Fiora> the one I tested was (x*x*x)*x = (x*x)*(x*x)
20:58:29 <Fiora> which doesn't seem to be true
20:58:50 <Bike> oerjan: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_associativity wikipedia is better at words than I am.
20:58:53 <oerjan> proof: if it were, it would be a multiplicative semigroup. it is finite. 2*(1/2) = 1, and 1*x = x for all x.
20:59:46 <oerjan> Bike: right, i think that goes under what i say.
20:59:52 <Bike> ok, thanks.
21:00:12 <GreyKnight> I am trying to build Lua on HackEgo but the make takes a bit too long for command timeout by the looks of it. What do? :-(
21:00:30 <oerjan> basically the elements generated by 2 with multiplication must be a group. but we know that it includes inf, which has no inverse...
21:00:33 <kmc> what the fuck kind of URI is "udp://tracker.thepiratebay.org:80"
21:00:44 <kmc> "just send some UDP packets to this port. don't worry too much about what's in them"
21:00:56 <Bike> http://agora.qoid.us/current_flr.txt goddamn, what
21:01:15 <sgeo> Bike, are you going to join Agora?
21:01:29 <Bike> no more than i'm going to join bfjoust
21:01:42 <kmc> beefjoust
21:02:01 <sgeo> I should read the ruleset at some point and get involved again
21:02:04 <Bike> «The termination of a contract through processes it explicitly envisions (including a rule-defined mechanism, if the contract is intended to be governed under Agoran mechanism, if the contract is intended to be governed under Agoran restriction of its rights as a person.» it's like a real legal code!
21:02:21 <Bike> well, missed a line there, but still
21:02:38 <sgeo> Bike, that's a legal judgement, not a rule
21:02:43 <fizzie> ^style europarl
21:02:43 <fungot> Selected style: europarl (European Parliament speeches during approx. 1996-2006)
21:02:47 <fizzie> fungot: Talk like a real politician.
21:02:51 <fungot> fizzie: just on the record, i would like to question the grounds for derogation in matters of state aid to research. if there is a scientifically justified suspicion of a risk assessment of these proposals which have come through in the application of the aid system must effectively be continued beyond 2002. my feeling is that we contemplate the establishment of further committees it means it could impair the success of this ac
21:02:53 <GreyKnight> I used to play Agora. I caused a bit of an upset while leaving in fact :-3
21:02:55 <oerjan> @check 2 == 2
21:02:57 <lambdabot> Not in scope: `myquickcheck'
21:03:11 <oerjan> thank you lambdabot for making this awkward
21:03:12 <sgeo> GreyKnight, wait, are you the one who designed the coat of arms?
21:03:21 <sgeo> I think I memoed you once a long time ago
21:03:32 <Bike> oerjan: basically i was wondering if partial-evvaluating exponentiation with respect to the exponent as some sequence of multiplications and stores would be accurate for a floating base. the answer is apparently no
21:03:34 <GreyKnight> I helped with it I think, can't remember how much was my idea
21:03:52 <sgeo> -MemoServ- Memo 2 - Sent by GreyKnight, Oct 28 19:50:11 2008
21:03:52 <sgeo> -MemoServ- ------------------------------------------
21:03:52 <sgeo> -MemoServ- sure, go nuts
21:03:57 <GreyKnight> IIRC there was a quill (for writing rules) and an axe (for er the reverse)
21:04:08 <Bike> http://agoranomic.org/coat_of_arms.png
21:04:09 <fizzie> fungot: By all means, try to avoid establishing further committees.
21:04:10 <fungot> fizzie: mr president, the best is the enemy of the good. the socialist group. so, within the european union. this is known as the document of this kind.
21:05:29 * FreeFull snogs fungot
21:05:30 <fungot> FreeFull: mr president, i wish fulfilment. mr president, i think that all those companies that follow good practice, while the council has not examined the conditions of crews in terms of cost to the european community itself, for example the lines on the subject.
21:05:40 <kmc> hot
21:05:42 <GreyKnight> Fungotgate :-o
21:06:03 <oerjan> oh wait this argument isn't water-tight
21:06:10 <fizzie> I think in this style fungot has proposed some rather controversial political moves.
21:06:11 <fungot> fizzie: the importance of a rapid reaction facility is starting to formulate a new structure founded on commercialisation and corporate profit. i very much hope that we shall be voting on a text.
21:06:36 <kmc> fungot: i hope so too
21:06:38 <fungot> kmc: mr president, first of all, i too would like to highlight the fact that it has not, so the range of possibilities for finance. incidentally he was aided by the parliamentary committee perfectly appropriate, ' the following spoke on the telephone and to mrs randzio-plath, that the sessions of the international task force will be to the fore this evening in this debate.
21:06:42 <GreyKnight> oh, there it is
21:06:53 <kmc> am i president of #esoteric now
21:06:55 <kmc> is that how it works
21:07:46 <popl> kmc: Too bad you're going to get shot.
21:07:58 <Bike> so who's mrs randzio-plath, kmc? a secretary? something more??
21:08:00 <fizzie> <fungot> elliott: mr president, commissioner, i fully accept that description when it comes to human rights. yes, with an average fat content of chocolate, and we are using double standards! we all know that under present legislation and also in relation to standardization bodies. if i do not want.
21:08:02 <fungot> fizzie: mr president, ladies and gentlemen, it is no longer acceptable, and we are now in a position to take the opportunity offered to it by the european parliament supported the schnellhardt report on specific hygiene rules for the conduct of the german criminal legal system wishes to pursue. with a view to simplifying community legislation and from the tragedy of the present official line that each species has to earn the fi
21:08:08 <hagb4rd> `pastequotes *.kmc*.president.*
21:08:13 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.9367 \ grep: nothing to repeat
21:08:21 <hagb4rd> `pastequotes .*kmc.*president.*
21:08:25 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.22041
21:08:43 <oerjan> Bike: forget the argument i gave above, it really needs associcativity of combinations of 2 and 1/2.
21:08:44 <Bike> hm, apparently she's a "Master of European Studies"
21:08:46 <fizzie> The quote file certainly does have the best fungots.
21:08:48 <fungot> fizzie: madam president, mr wuermeling is correct. what goes without saying that the people at jet and ask the members to leave, often for political and religious intolerance, we quite clearly cannot work on reciprocal recognition until at least 24 hours after its receipt is announced to members. a proper statute should cover the development of its work.
21:08:54 <elliott> Bike: agora isn't that complex
21:08:54 <Bike> oerjan: forgotten
21:08:54 <hagb4rd> i think i have proposed this some day :(
21:09:06 -!- MDude has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
21:09:09 <hagb4rd> however
21:09:24 <Bike> " Diplomas in comparative law, development policy and French. Trained as an editor. Editor (1970-1972). Lawyer (1972-1974). Tax lawyer with the Hamburg department of revenue (1974-1976 and 1978-1989)." man she knows what's up
21:09:47 <Bike> also a socialist, are you a socialist kmc??
21:09:52 <oerjan> > [x*(x*x*x) == (x*x)*(x*x) | x <- [1.1, 1.23 .. 10]]
21:09:54 <lambdabot> [False,True,True,True,True,True,True,False,True,True,True,True,True,True,Tr...
21:10:03 <oerjan> Bike: try that instead XD
21:10:04 <kmc> Bike: kinda
21:10:14 <GreyKnight> As I recall, I was the one making legal judgements at the time I left. There was a big discussion about the meaning of "deemed" (I think?), so I gave a judgement by saying that I deemed the proposal to be true :-)
21:10:15 <GreyKnight> shortly thereafter I had to fall off the net for a while due to personal matters, but never formally left the game. There were some funny discussions to read when I eventually got back online :-)
21:10:15 <GreyKnight> Double standard chocolate, oh boy!
21:10:15 <GreyKnight> hagb4rd: "this" ?
21:10:16 <GreyKnight> kmc: are you now or have you ever been a member of the freenode party?
21:10:24 <oerjan> ok so 1.1 already fails
21:10:25 <elliott> Bike: there are only really three mailing lists
21:10:29 <elliott> they just have backup lists
21:10:36 <hagb4rd> GreyKnight: kmc for president, yes
21:10:45 <Bike> oerjan: fiora did that earlier, except that we got different results on our machines due to possibly sse vs x87 reasons or something
21:10:46 <elliott> and the only real distinction that matters is sending actions to a-b and everything else to a-d
21:10:52 -!- MDude has joined.
21:11:11 <Fiora> 11:54 <@Fiora> http://pastebin.com/3FGtymxq I am a bad person
21:11:28 <Bike> yes her code also involved a fake reinterpret_cast-y thing
21:11:29 <Bike> witch.
21:11:34 <elliott> Fiora: you should be using quickcheck
21:11:43 <Bike> it doesn't work!
21:11:48 <GreyKnight> oh right
21:11:48 <GreyKnight> and not deeming
21:11:48 <Bike> gawd.
21:11:54 <elliott> then it'd just be quickCheck (\x -> (x*x*x)*x == (x*x)*(x*x))!!!!
21:11:54 <Fiora> bike insists I'm a witch :<
21:12:01 <elliott> well (x::Float)
21:12:27 <GreyKnight> > weight fiora == weight duck
21:12:29 <lambdabot> Not in scope: `weight'
21:12:29 <lambdabot> Perhaps you meant one of these:
21:12:29 <lambdabot> `right' (importe...
21:12:46 <Bike> Fiora: you entered, in all seriousness, the combination of characters «*(float*)&randint». !!!!!
21:12:51 <elliott> @check \(x::Float) -> (x*x*x)*x == (x*x)*(x*x)
21:12:51 <lambdabot> Parse error in pattern at "->" (column 13)
21:12:59 <Fiora> Bike: I'm sorrryyyy okayyyy
21:12:59 <oerjan> elliott: why did you think i was testing @check above, duh
21:13:01 <elliott> @check \x -> (x*x*x)*(x::Float) == (x*x)*(x*x)
21:13:02 <lambdabot> Not in scope: `myquickcheck'
21:13:04 <elliott> ugh
21:13:10 * elliott complains to Cale
21:13:20 <Bike> fiora: of course we probably can't properly compare your weight to that of a duck due to rounding errors. YOU WIN THIS BATTLE, BUT NOT THE WAR
21:13:50 <GreyKnight> Casting, the Fiora way
21:13:59 <Fiora> I was hacking it in like, 2 minutes, because I was too lazy for unions >_>;
21:14:10 <oerjan> GreyKnight: she cast me into a newt!
21:14:11 <Fiora> and yes you have to compile it with -fno-strict-aliasing because I am really bad person
21:14:16 <Bike> hm is there a duck typing joke to be made here
21:14:16 <Fiora> *am a
21:14:19 <Bike> i don't know!
21:14:23 <Fiora> *snerk*
21:14:38 <elliott> couldn't you just like
21:14:39 <elliott> use a union
21:14:46 <GreyKnight> *(newt*)&oerjan
21:14:47 <elliott> like you are supposed to
21:14:49 <Fiora> I was lazy
21:15:21 <elliott> : /
21:15:26 <Bike> laziness does strange things to people
21:15:33 <Bike> like retroactively cast them into witches apparently?
21:16:33 <elliott> something about space leaks
21:17:50 <hagb4rd> laziness may be the last of the great virtues. can't imagine any progress without it :P
21:20:23 <hagb4rd> thesis-antithesis-synthesis?
21:21:35 <Bike> marxist float reinterpret_casting, to go with unions i guess
21:21:40 <GreyKnight> It is the impatient lazy man who gets things done
21:21:56 <Phantom_Hoover> the marxist dielectric
21:22:14 <hagb4rd> it was hegel
21:22:17 <hagb4rd> actuallly
21:22:28 <hagb4rd> who founded it
21:22:47 <Phantom_Hoover> i was introduced to it as 'marxist dielectric' and i'm sticking with that
21:23:07 <elliott> marxist dieclectic
21:23:24 <GreyKnight> Marxist esoteric
21:23:38 <Bike> Phantom_Hoover: you're only allowed to if you can come up with a joke about marxism and capacitors in the next ten minutes.
21:23:39 <kmc> reinterpret_caste
21:24:24 <Phantom_Hoover> marxism is distinguished by strong opposition to capacitalism?
21:25:06 <hagb4rd> truth distinguished by propaganda
21:25:36 <GreyKnight> Phantom_Hoover: I hear they're fond of resistance too
21:25:44 <Phantom_Hoover> hmm
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21:25:50 <Phantom_Hoover> idk if that counts as a capacitor pun though
21:26:45 <GreyKnight> I went up a level
21:26:51 <Phantom_Hoover> hey augur can you think of any good marxist capacitor puns
21:27:10 <augur> no?
21:27:23 <oerjan> i think such a pun would be pretty farad
21:27:51 <popl> oerjan: I hope you stretched first.
21:28:01 <oerjan> never!
21:28:07 * Fiora has already stalin the best puns
21:28:29 <Phantom_Hoover> see we have capacitor puns, and marxist puns
21:28:30 <elliott> oerjan: i think you should kick Fiora for that one.
21:28:34 <Phantom_Hoover> but how to bring them together?
21:28:41 <elliott> just terrible
21:28:45 <oerjan> elliott: hey we're no engels either
21:28:50 <popl> marxist capacitor puns?
21:29:06 <Fiora> kick me? ;-;
21:29:07 <popl> and... GO!
21:29:12 <Fiora> that would be making a maotain out of a molehill, really
21:29:18 <elliott>
21:29:24 <popl> Fiora--
21:29:25 <elliott> i revise my suggestion to a k-line
21:30:05 <Phantom_Hoover> I don't think I can just sit here without lenin Fiora a hand.
21:30:55 <Fiora> should I trotsky out of here while I'm ahead
21:31:38 <Phantom_Hoover> that one was weak -_-
21:31:55 <elliott> how the fuck
21:31:58 <Phantom_Hoover> weak like the workers oppressed under the capitalist system
21:31:58 <elliott> can you say any of these terrible puns
21:32:01 <elliott> are any worse than the others
21:32:18 <Fiora> sorry, I'm just PLAying around
21:32:41 <Fiora> it's not like I'm making a manifesto or anything
21:32:59 <Phantom_Hoover> i'd give that one low marx as well
21:33:03 <Fiora> jsdkfljslkdfsld
21:33:14 <Fiora> omg
21:33:14 <oerjan> Fiora: i think you should take a long march
21:33:31 <Fiora> these puns are definitely a great leap forward in #esoteric discussion
21:33:48 <GreyKnight> This discussion is quite politically charged
21:33:59 <Phantom_Hoover> I think we'd all be better off if we'd just beria lot of these puns in an unmarked grave.
21:34:31 -!- asiekierka has quit (Excess Flood).
21:34:35 <elliott> i think we should commit horrific genocide. on these puns.
21:34:38 <elliott> am I doing it right.......................................
21:34:50 <GreyKnight> u r doin it rong
21:34:51 <hagb4rd> ok stop bashing fiora.. time for some education.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georg_Wilhelm_Friedrich_Hegel
21:34:55 <Phantom_Hoover> Yeah, none of us can claim molotov dignity from this experience.
21:34:56 <Fiora> Phantom_Hoover: I think your puns are deng good
21:35:14 <elliott> hagb4rd i
21:35:19 <elliott> don't think anyone is actually sincerely bashing Fiora
21:35:25 <Fiora> I think elliot is being silly ^^;;
21:35:27 <oerjan> elliott: you'll make a killing in this field
21:35:30 <Fiora> pfff
21:35:30 <hagb4rd> i know <(
21:35:31 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover is the *real* villain here
21:35:43 <hagb4rd> yes :D
21:36:00 <Fiora> I'm trying to work lin biao into a pun but that name is hard
21:36:34 <Phantom_Hoover> what do you call the cook on the titanic? a khrushchev
21:36:34 <shachaf> Don't kick people whose only crime is fun puns!
21:36:52 <shachaf> What's going on in here?
21:36:55 <FireFly> /kick rot13(shachaf)
21:37:08 -!- asiekierka has joined.
21:37:18 <Phantom_Hoover> These puns should be putin some sort of hall of fame.
21:37:19 <shachaf> ^rot13 kick
21:37:20 <fungot> xvpx
21:37:36 <FireFly> ^rot13 rot13
21:37:37 <fungot> ebg13
21:37:39 <GreyKnight> /xvpx shachaf
21:38:09 <Fiora> I don't think I'll be able to keep putin these puns together for much longer
21:38:11 <FireFly> ^rot13 marx lenin stalin putin
21:38:12 <fungot> znek yrava fgnyva chgva
21:39:47 <GreyKnight> ^rot13 Url lbh thlf, jung'f tbvat ba va guvf punaary?
21:39:48 <fungot> Hey you guys, what's going on in this channel?
21:39:48 <elliott> http://tommcmahon.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/12/19/ritz2b.jpg
21:40:07 <elliott> (surely using Putin for Marxist puns is cheating)
21:40:26 <Phantom_Hoover> no it's an allegory for the perversion of the marxist ideal
21:40:30 <Phantom_Hoover> or something
21:41:03 <oerjan> who cares, it's not like these puns are a cultural revolution
21:41:06 <shachaf> elliott: isn't that too american for you
21:41:16 <shachaf> I guess those exist elsewhere too.
21:41:21 <elliott> we have ritz in the uk
21:42:47 -!- sebbu has joined.
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21:42:47 -!- sebbu has joined.
21:42:58 <Phantom_Hoover> it's a pity the capacitor puns had to leyden and die so early on
21:44:17 <GreyKnight> Some of them were pretty coulomb
21:45:02 <elliott> GreyKnight: what is that even meant to be
21:45:04 <Phantom_Hoover> maybe given enough time we'll think of more
21:45:11 <GreyKnight> cool, um
21:45:12 <Phantom_Hoover> so faraday hasn't been enough
21:45:28 -!- shachaf has set topic: ∀ fungot | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/.
21:45:49 <FireFly> fungot: do you have any nice puns to deliver?
21:45:50 <fungot> FireFly: mrs hardstaff, as far as the differences in procedures but of the negotiations currently underway on adopting a common policy on social benefits. it has, only for the council to return to your country of origin' principle, which this house has specifically just voted for this report too.
21:45:51 <shachaf> I wish Unicode had a codepoint for upside down ∀.
21:45:57 -!- kmc has set topic: ¬∀ ¬fungot | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/.
21:46:10 <GreyKnight> ∀ fungot what? It seems incomplete now
21:46:11 <fungot> GreyKnight: from a logical point of view, i hope as soon as possible
21:46:27 <FireFly> A logical point of view, eh?
21:46:31 <FireFly> Fairly accurate
21:46:34 -!- Phantom_Hoover has set topic: ⅁ fungot | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/.
21:46:44 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: i don't get that last one
21:46:48 <Fiora> I'm going to diode from all these puns
21:47:04 -!- NihilistDandy has joined.
21:47:15 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, so far a day
21:47:23 -!- GreyKnight has set topic: ∮ fungot | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/.
21:47:44 <elliott> no i mean
21:47:46 <elliott> 21:45:04 <Phantom_Hoover> maybe given enough time we'll think of more
21:47:47 <elliott> that one
21:47:51 <elliott> or was that just the set-up
21:47:57 <Phantom_Hoover> yeah, that's the setup
21:48:22 -!- zzo38 has joined.
21:48:32 <GreyKnight> hmph, okay, using & and/or nohup does not help
21:49:03 <Fiora> at least we're not making spice jokes
21:49:07 <Fiora> I don't think we have thyme for those
21:49:14 <FireFly> ∫fungot dx
21:49:15 <fungot> FireFly: mr president, there is great willingness to formulate common foreign and security policy is playing in the playground. regrettably, three of them have a long way. we will be starting at half past eleven tomorrow. that is the reason why a particular status should be accorded rights of codecision in environmental matters than we have done in the area we should have the tools to cooperate and communicate appropriately acr
21:49:15 <GreyKnight> maybe if I fix it so the make doesn't restart from scratch each time I can do it incrementally
21:49:40 <Phantom_Hoover> If we can't take these electric puns to the maxwell then so be it.
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21:49:44 <GreyKnight> does fungot vary with x?
21:49:45 <fungot> GreyKnight: it would not be any generics, but at least we are trying to find a means of ensuring dual pricing which both meets the expectations of our citizens.
21:49:52 <FireFly> Of course
21:50:18 <Bike> oh my god, what did i do
21:50:28 -!- pikhq has joined.
21:50:28 -!- ?unknown? has set topic: ∃ fungot | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/.
21:50:33 <Fiora> wonderful things :3
21:50:43 <Bike> i'm sorry channel
21:50:43 <elliott> um
21:50:48 <Bike> i didn't mean to
21:50:50 <elliott> how did freenode change the channel............
21:50:51 <elliott> topic
21:50:59 <elliott> was there a netsplit
21:51:04 <Bike> there was a while ago
21:51:08 -!- kmc has set topic: ¬∀ ¬fungot | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/.
21:51:09 <elliott> mmm
21:51:39 <Bike> fungot: what are your feelings on demorgan's laws
21:51:41 <fungot> Bike: we all want, we must lend a truly helping hand. we need to double in order to make the necessary preparations before travelling. i would further remind you about the fate of the vietnamese, chinese and laotian leaders and have no other choice. that alone can scarcely fail to make headway in the field of safety and at the same time, it should already be divided or partitioned and that, from the point of view of regional po
21:52:04 <FireFly> fungot: stop being all political
21:52:06 <fungot> FireFly: mr president, ladies and gentlemen, can the governments of the union depend on this. that is my plea. can we not call for any sort of additional wealth, quite the opposite. obviously this concept must be redefined. i believe that the resolution, was rejected by parliament, to become not only a problem of this day and age. the american missile attacks a response to the amendments to the proposal for a directive provides
21:52:11 <GreyKnight> ^style lovecraft
21:52:12 <fungot> Selected style: lovecraft (H. P. Lovecraft's writings)
21:52:22 <hagb4rd> yuhu
21:52:31 <GreyKnight> ∑ fungut
21:52:39 <GreyKnight> fail :<
21:52:51 <hagb4rd> shub niggurath
21:53:01 <FireFly> ∏ fungot = his conversations
21:53:04 <fungot> FireFly: using small boats, we effected a difficult landing on ross island ahead, with the long handle of a fnord society. such people live in a limited world of imagination; accepting fnord the values of common folklore, and tries to trace a strange background of fnord legend and hallucination. when, on wondering how our way was lighted in the absence of any trace of reason when reanimated, so had perforce created nameless hor
21:53:04 <elliott> Bike: well, obviously fungot is a constructivist
21:53:05 <fungot> FireFly: when the light was ample and the howlings still the rowers resumed their strokes, and the problem of our return, and all through that second day he made progress in knowing the men of teloth are dark and fnord.
21:53:18 <elliott> Bike: and therefore doesn't believe in them
21:53:29 <Bike> elliott: logical
21:53:36 <Phantom_Hoover> ℘(fungot)
21:53:38 <fungot> Phantom_Hoover: against all these obstacles i am striving to present a coherent fnord for i am still in the night wind. just before retiring i dispatched a final message to the arkham for fnord and a remark that the doctor had seen many before, and forming above all a mere grim struggle for survival all these things began to happen to robert suydam. just at the hour of reading this item until midmght, west sat almost paralysed.
21:53:54 <elliott> challenge: get fungot to say something racist on the lovecraft style
21:53:56 <fungot> elliott: spectral glamour and potency in the popular literature of magic. i have said, broad fnord but a perplexed look occasionally fnord over his countenance as he sits thinking at his desk and gaze dreamily off at the outspread west the dark towers of memorial hall just below, the georgian court-house belfry, the lofty pinnacles of the downtown section, and that his noises, mutterings, incantations, and chemical odours were
21:53:57 <shachaf> > deriv (\x -> x^3) x
21:53:58 <GreyKnight> fungot is striving to present a coherent fnord
21:53:58 <fungot> GreyKnight: " yes, there's a hotel in innsmouth called the gilman house. it was very blurred, and showed no signs of nervousness save a barely noticed tendency to pause as though listening for something very
21:53:58 <lambdabot> Not in scope: `deriv'
21:54:00 <FireFly> Please do present a coherent fnord
21:54:03 <shachaf> How does the differentiation thing work?
21:54:20 <shachaf> > diff (^3) x
21:54:22 <lambdabot> x * (x * 1 + 1 * x) + 1 * (x * x)
21:54:24 <zzo38> I think "midnight" seems misspelled?
21:54:27 <shachaf> How does the simplifying thing work?
21:54:35 <Bike> not very well, evidently
21:54:46 <GreyKnight> midmght
21:54:53 <GreyKnight> OCR fail
21:54:56 <shachaf> > reduce $ diff (^3) x
21:54:59 <lambdabot> x * (x * 1 + 1 * x) + 1 * (x * x)
21:55:02 <shachaf> Useless!
21:55:13 <Bike> :t diff (^3) x
21:55:14 <zzo38> Yes that is what I thought, OCR fail probably. But it could be corrected
21:55:14 <lambdabot> Expr
21:55:22 <FireFly> :t reduce
21:55:23 <lambdabot> Expr -> Expr
21:55:38 <FireFly> > reduce $ (x + x :: Expr)
21:55:40 <lambdabot> x + x
21:55:55 <shachaf> > reduce $ x+0
21:55:56 <lambdabot> x + 0
21:55:59 <shachaf> > reduce $ 0+x
21:56:01 <lambdabot> 0 + x
21:56:02 <Bike> let's see, for racist fungot, the most obvious would be the rats in the walls. does it have that?
21:56:03 <fungot> Bike: looking back to our sensations, and recalling our fnord at viewing this monstrous survival from aeons we had thought prehuman, i can
21:56:10 <Bike> also what the hell is "reduce" supposed to be doing
21:56:16 <Bike> is it just a no-op
21:56:32 <Bike> or maybe it's just paranoid about floats??
21:56:42 <shachaf> > reduce $ x + 1 + 1
21:56:43 <FireFly> > expand $ (x * y)^2
21:56:44 <lambdabot> x + 1 + 1
21:56:45 <lambdabot> can't find file: L.hs
21:56:45 <elliott> > rduce (x+x+x :: Expr)
21:56:47 <lambdabot> Not in scope: `rduce'
21:56:47 <lambdabot> Perhaps you meant `reduce' (imported from Debug.Simp...
21:56:48 <shachaf> > reduce $ 1 + 1 + x
21:56:48 <elliott> > reduce (x+x+x :: Expr)
21:56:50 <lambdabot> x + x + x
21:56:50 <lambdabot> can't find file: L.hs
21:56:52 <elliott> i think it automatically reduces at every step
21:56:53 <FireFly> Poor lambdabot
21:56:53 <shachaf> > reduce $ 1 + 1 + x
21:56:54 <elliott> or something
21:56:54 <lambdabot> 2 + x
21:56:57 <shachaf> Ha!
21:57:00 <elliott> > 1 + (1 + x)
21:57:01 <lambdabot> 1 + (1 + x)
21:57:04 <elliott> > reduce (1 + (1 + x))
21:57:06 <lambdabot> 1 + (1 + x)
21:57:09 <elliott> > 1 + 1 + x
21:57:09 <FireFly> > reduce 1+1+1+1+2+x+3+y
21:57:10 <lambdabot> 1 + 1 + x
21:57:10 <lambdabot> can't find file: L.hs
21:57:14 <Bike> this is the worst expression reducer i've ever seen
21:57:26 <zzo38> Can you find the codes and fix it?
21:57:47 <Bike> that sounds like work, i'd rather use a proper cas
21:58:05 <shachaf> GHC is not a CAS, proper or otherwise.
21:58:06 <FireFly> `style
21:58:08 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: style: not found
21:58:12 <FireFly> er
21:58:12 <Bike> yes, exactly.
21:58:14 <elliott> Bike: well it's better than mathematica
21:58:14 <FireFly> ^style
21:58:14 <shachaf> `quote style
21:58:15 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft* nethack pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube
21:58:16 <HackEgo> No output.
21:58:24 <Bike> i said /proper/ cas, durr hurr hurr
21:58:36 <elliott> Bike: truly wit
21:58:41 <Bike> truly.
21:58:50 <kmc> ¬ fungot
21:58:51 <fungot> kmc: the sun was already growing fnord there was no trace of its striking could afterwards be found. but i wou'd have you observe what was told to us aboute fnord care whom to calle upp, for you knowe o. and i have myself had many oddly fnord letters from henry akeley which impressed me so profoundly, and which the old woman began to turn. i had formed no clear idea of our object on that night fnord me, and at the most unlikely
21:59:10 <Bike> was lovecraft secretly a discordian, is that what i'm seeing here
21:59:13 <shachaf> @djinn fungot -> fungot
21:59:14 <lambdabot> f a = a
21:59:15 <kmc> so what are the main challenges of writing in funge-98
21:59:15 <fungot> shachaf: then his fevered, abnormal bearing caught the distant, fnord notes. over miles of hill and field and alley they came, but his tastes never matched his title. at twenty he had joined a band of uncouth, crouching shapes loping and shambling in the same cryptical stone building with the high, slit-like transom in the fnord fnord it, since west and i did not wish to move away from the tiny tract which carried me, but laid
21:59:28 <Bike> the distant, fnord notes
21:59:51 <shachaf> What a terrible style.
21:59:58 <shachaf> ^style speeches
21:59:58 <fungot> Selected style: speeches (misc. speeches from Project Gutenberg)
22:00:05 <shachaf> fungot fungot fungot
22:00:07 <elliott> kmc: spatial organisation
22:00:07 -!- ogrom has quit (Quit: Left).
22:00:08 <fungot> shachaf: feudal baronage, the root of all acquisition as of all conservation. he that is bound to act in the manner of the great progress which it has been said, " this is the most solid of all titles, not only to you gentlemen for your help in enabling me to earn my living. for something over forty years i have constantly thought and acted. if i had not the slightest doubt as to the evil of which i speak is that which is sent
22:00:15 <shachaf> fungot?
22:00:17 <fungot> shachaf: i have often thought that if i had wanted to. i made this rhyme: i assert, that even the scriptures, is always particular to never refer to even the illustrious mother of all mankind as a " gentleman extremely well acquainted with the wants of the first weight, ability, wealth, and to perfect and extend the parliamentary reform of lord john russell moved the house of commons
22:00:21 <elliott> kmc: you can cheat by just arranging it so it goes line by line with some crap at the start and end of lines
22:00:23 <kmc> are there linkers for funge
22:00:24 <elliott> kmc: but that is cheating
22:00:29 <kmc> yeah
22:00:32 <elliott> also you have to write your strings backwards
22:00:35 <elliott> 0"gnirts"es
22:00:39 <kmc> a 2D linker with relocations and shit would be cool
22:00:53 <elliott> it should make a uml diagram of the linking
22:00:55 <elliott> and have that be the program
22:00:59 <elliott> by uml i mean ascii art
22:01:08 <Bike> code in the boustrophedon style
22:01:12 <Bike> that would be pretty boss
22:01:13 <FireFly> Puts a whole new meaning to self-describing code
22:01:32 <shachaf> elliott: Have you "deployed" any esolangs lately?
22:01:38 <shachaf> If you know what I mean.
22:02:05 <Gregor> This IS the international hub of esoteric programming language design and deployment.
22:02:17 <shachaf> Gregor: What does deployment mean?
22:02:26 <Gregor> Uploading tarballs to servers.
22:02:47 <FireFly> Oh, not the international hub of esoteric programming language design and employment?
22:03:06 <shachaf> Gregor: Oh, I've done that.
22:03:13 <shachaf> I've also downloaded tarballs from servers.
22:03:19 <shachaf> Is that what employment is?
22:05:48 -!- sgeo has changed nick to Sgeo.
22:06:54 <Sgeo> I felt weird as sgeo
22:07:13 -!- Gregor has set topic: The international hub for exoteric voodoo programming and astral software projection. | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/.
22:07:54 <Vorpal> <Deewiant> Vorpal: pavucontrol --> output devices <-- thanks
22:08:06 <Vorpal> <shachaf> Vorpal: Were you being off-topic? <-- yeah, as if that is anything unusual in here :P
22:08:44 <shachaf> Vorpal: Pretty sure most of us are never off-topic in here?
22:08:51 <Vorpal> ;P
22:09:00 <GreyKnight> that never happens ever
22:10:00 -!- sebbu has joined.
22:10:00 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host).
22:10:00 -!- sebbu has joined.
22:19:41 <fizzie> pavucontrol is what I always use, too.
22:19:55 <fizzie> (I don't know why I wasn't highlighted up there.)
22:21:45 <fizzie> Pulse will (up to some degree, at least) remember if you've pointed particular applications at a particular output, and will select that by default when the application opens a playback stream next time, assuming the output in question still exists. At least that's what it does for me.
22:27:03 <oerjan> fizzie: i'm surry you are being off-topic will have to bann you okay
22:27:21 <shachaf> oerjan: no don't do it!!!!!
22:27:25 <elliott> oerjan: IMO op me so I can voice sebbu and ban chickenzilla.
22:27:34 <oerjan> what did chickenzilla do
22:27:42 <elliott> And +q... jix.
22:27:58 <elliott> maybe +o clog also
22:28:06 <oerjan> yeah we need to cure jix of his interminable talking
22:28:14 <shachaf> elliott: And +c #esoteric
22:28:19 <shachaf> it must be done
22:28:29 <shachaf> Hmm, that's not red.
22:28:32 <shachaf> it must be done
22:28:34 <shachaf> it must be done
22:28:36 <shachaf> it must be done
22:28:39 <shachaf> There we go.
22:28:42 <shachaf> it must be done
22:28:43 <Gregor> Viva la France.
22:28:49 <shachaf> it must be done
22:28:58 <oerjan> Gregor: *Vive
22:29:11 <Gregor> Vivo der Franchenfügel
22:29:22 <elliott> #esoteric used to be +c.
22:29:24 <elliott> then it was fixed.
22:29:31 <shachaf> Gregor: Are you going to Knuth's talk today?
22:29:38 <zzo38> What color does this make?
22:29:51 <shachaf> zzo38: Whitish.
22:30:05 <elliott> What colour does this make?
22:30:08 <Gregor> shachaf: Wasn't planning on it.
22:30:24 <monqy> elliott: good colour
22:30:34 <fizzie> elliott: You made it blink for me. :/
22:30:42 <elliott> fizzie: that was the intention, yes
22:30:46 <oerjan> Der erschräcklige fügel vom ausseren Raum
22:31:00 <hagb4rd> was soll das werden?
22:31:01 <zzo38> On my computer they are blue; CTRL+B makes magenta and CTRL+A makes red, CTRL+V makes reverse video, CTRL+C doesn't change the colors.
22:31:22 <shachaf> everse video?
22:31:25 <zzo38> CTRL+F won't change colors either.
22:31:36 <shachaf> inally!
22:31:38 <shachaf> Hmm.
22:31:39 <zzo38> And CTRL+R is also not recognized.
22:32:18 <fizzie> zzo38: If someone sends you [34m kind of codes, does that do anything to colors? (Assuming this goes through right.)
22:32:20 <zzo38> However unregonized control characters (and all control characters in the input) are displayed black on purple.
22:32:32 <elliott> fizzie: blu
22:32:44 <monqy> blue
22:32:48 <zzo38> fizzie: It just displays the [ black on purple because escape is unrecognized control character.
22:32:56 <fizzie> zzo38: I see.
22:32:57 <shachaf> monqy......
22:33:15 <monqy> shachaf....................
22:33:19 <monqy> shachaf....................
22:33:23 <monqy> its not working...
22:33:25 <shachaf> oh no
22:33:26 <oerjan> hagb4rd: ein Franchenfügel beim Name Vivo. vdh.
22:33:27 <shachaf> help
22:33:37 <shachaf> monqy..............................
22:33:40 <Bike> «I do talk fast but for what it's worth I am not on crack or something:) In fact at age 83 I am still getting high , but just on life alone!»
22:33:57 <monqy> hi bike
22:33:58 <zzo38> My client also recognizes CTRL+O to change it back to blue.
22:34:02 <Bike> hi monqy
22:34:20 <elliott> hello
22:34:21 <Bike> hi monqy
22:34:40 <shachaf> ,4monqy.........................................
22:34:50 <monqy> ^rainbow shachaf
22:34:50 <fungot> shachaf
22:34:56 <hagb4rd> oerjan: franchenfügel? what could this be..no idea
22:34:58 <shachaf> `welcome
22:35:01 <HackEgo> Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
22:35:13 <shachaf> ^rainbow Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
22:35:14 <fungot> Welcome to the international hub for esoteric progr ...
22:35:22 <shachaf> ...
22:35:23 <Bike> weak
22:35:46 <monqy> ^rainbow pathetic
22:35:47 <fungot> pathetic
22:35:50 <hagb4rd> oerjan: was that a creation of this bot?
22:35:51 <zzo38> In addition, the sender is displayed in dark cyan, commands in bright white, short parameters in gray, and messages from the client program to the user in bright cyan.
22:36:19 <hagb4rd> oerjan: it sounds pretty german. but it is not.
22:36:31 <oerjan> hagb4rd: i don't think Man is meant to know of such creatures.
22:36:44 <hagb4rd> ah ok
22:36:54 <shachaf> fungot: your rainbow isn't even rainbow colors??????
22:36:55 <fungot> shachaf: it was while he was languishing there on his sofa arrived the news that mr pitt began his political life to the representation. we should discern, in innumerable particulars, the fermentation of mind, on feeling soft, smooth, and eye of blue, timid in love as brave in arms, her maritime ascendency, the marvels of their wealth and of their modern imitators.
22:36:59 <oerjan> hagb4rd: also only if Gregor is a bot
22:37:09 <hagb4rd> that things that should not be
22:37:10 <Gregor> THEY KNOW MY SECRET
22:37:11 <Gregor> EXTERMINATE
22:37:12 <Gregor> EXTERMINATE
22:37:13 <shachaf> Cyan
22:37:20 <shachaf> #esoteric
22:37:53 <oerjan> `words -german 50
22:37:56 -!- GreyKnight has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
22:37:56 <HackEgo> Unknown option: g \ Unknown option: e \ Unknown option: r \ Unknown option: m \ Unknown option: a \ Unknown option: n
22:38:00 <oerjan> fancy
22:38:05 <zzo38> shachaf: It is not cyan?
22:38:05 <oerjan> `words --german 50
22:38:09 <HackEgo> epharbeit micrn herbo umsäugnforc erausfonn rapiertoff bisat plantlagema schäologie schlauberbaugung tiev tionalemeingerdial schlandtschäfter macabin vorzusalz alture lautonis vielenkünst wertrü lanzadasen spathoderung verdenzontragenbändive längigerftigt sansversionsacbdm convisier
22:38:25 <shachaf> zzo38: What is not?
22:38:33 -!- GreyKnight has joined.
22:38:36 -!- asiekierka has quit (Excess Flood).
22:38:42 <zzo38> shachaf: Messages send to this channel.
22:39:13 <shachaf> So?
22:39:23 <shachaf> kmc: How's your laptop?
22:39:23 <oerjan> Vivo epharbeitete mit seinem Vielenkünst
22:39:27 <zzo38> So!!
22:39:38 <shachaf> zzo38: So what?
22:39:42 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
22:39:58 <zzo38> So what!!
22:40:20 <Sgeo> THIS! IS! SO WHAT!!!
22:40:26 <oerjan> Wie doch!
22:40:33 <monqy> enough is enough.......
22:40:45 <shachaf> | |
22:40:47 <shachaf> -+-+-
22:40:50 <shachaf> |X|
22:40:52 <shachaf> -+-+-
22:40:54 <shachaf> | |
22:40:58 <hagb4rd> so what is.. na und?
22:41:03 <shachaf> monqy: your move monqy
22:41:09 <monqy> O
22:41:12 <shachaf> X
22:41:12 -!- baux has joined.
22:41:15 <monqy> O
22:41:17 <shachaf> X
22:41:19 -!- copumpkin has joined.
22:41:20 <GreyKnight> You sunk my battleship!
22:41:21 <monqy> i think you won
22:41:35 -!- baux has left.
22:41:35 <shachaf> oh :'(
22:41:38 -!- asiekierka has joined.
22:41:42 <kmc> shachaf: currently imaging the windows install before i blow it away
22:42:00 <fizzie> ^rainbow is indeed quite pathetic, because all the color codes makes it hit the output length limit far too early.
22:42:01 <fungot> is indeed quite pathetic, because all the color cod ...
22:42:04 <fizzie> Oops.
22:42:18 <Bike> clearly a deficiency in the irc protocol.
22:42:23 <shachaf> kmc: Before installing NixOS?
22:42:29 <kmc> shachaf: i'm disappointed that you didn't use line drawing characters
22:42:35 <kmc> shachaf: no, because they don't have package signing :/
22:42:41 <shachaf> kmc: :-(
22:42:48 <shachaf> Install NixOS and then implement package signing!
22:42:59 <kmc> sigh
22:43:07 <shachaf> kmc: Don't worry, it's trivial.
22:43:09 <kmc> sigh
22:43:21 <elliott> as if anyone would want to hack into kmc's system of all people
22:43:27 <kmc> it would require cooperation from the people who upload stuff
22:43:29 <zzo38> Bike: What is clearly a deficiency in the irc protocol?
22:43:31 <kmc> and, like, discipline
22:43:36 <kmc> debian works very hard to maintain that discipline
22:43:37 <Bike> zzo38: rainbowlessness
22:43:49 <oerjan> `words 50
22:44:03 <shachaf> kmc: "enjoy having /lib/ld-linux.so"
22:44:07 <HackEgo> dakingardinoform varmonal sal aftiou cpirp gastr pontae asgo fhoman orrhofessensir baill stet dusquare syntoer cher anub baillula gleen indled ofmg aga sta otnte gnrdo pollec
22:45:41 <fizzie> ^rainbow ▁▂▃▄▅▆▇█
22:45:41 <fungot>
22:45:49 <fizzie> The pleasantest.
22:46:01 <shachaf> um fungot
22:46:09 <GreyKnight> beautiful
22:46:13 <shachaf> fizzie: Is fungot racist?
22:46:29 <fizzie> Uh oh, my fungot rawlog console is underlined and in dark blue text.
22:46:30 <fungot> fizzie: the alphabet and simplified spelling spelling and pictures
22:46:32 <kmc> │ │
22:46:32 <kmc> ──┼──┼──
22:46:32 <kmc> │><│
22:46:32 <kmc> ──┼──┼──
22:46:32 <kmc> │ │
22:46:42 <oerjan> >_<
22:46:51 <fizzie> Uh oh, I shouldn't have said that.
22:47:18 <shachaf> ≻≺
22:47:44 <monqy> ^rainbow →←
22:47:45 <fungot>
22:47:50 <shachaf> ⧽⧼
22:48:02 <Taneb> Oh dear god what happened while I was out
22:48:18 <kmc> ^help
22:48:18 <fungot> ^<lang> <code>; ^def <command> <lang> <code>; ^show [command]; lang=bf/ul, code=text/str:N; ^str 0-9 get/set/add [text]; ^style [style]; ^bool
22:48:19 <shachaf> vim
22:48:31 <fizzie> ↬↯↺↜⥀
22:48:34 <oerjan> Taneb: colors. from. outer. space.
22:48:39 <hagb4rd> taneb: they developed some lens stuff
22:48:39 <Sgeo> Things that happened happened.
22:48:44 <fizzie> ^style lovecraft
22:48:44 <fungot> Selected style: lovecraft (H. P. Lovecraft's writings)
22:48:50 <fizzie> fungot: The color from out of space!
22:48:50 <fungot> fizzie: only after weeks of hideous repetition did i grow fnord to these visions of myself in monstrous form. in the journal of the american west were tamed by fnord. lovecraft
22:49:34 <Gregor> O_O
22:49:42 <Gregor> That... is surprisingly introspective.
22:49:55 <popl> Is it?
22:49:56 <Bike> i think fungot's a fan of The Outsider
22:49:58 <fungot> Bike: stars swelled to dawns, and dawns burst into fountains of gold, and the stealthy, friendly cats fnord themselves atop a convenient shed. the square georgian house had a monitor roof, classic doorway with fan carving, small-paned windows, and where even the most morbid perversion of nature need not be told. nahum had dug a grave for one whose death i could not be many blocks away from this very house, was a case whose curv
22:50:25 <Bike> nahum, eh.
22:50:35 <popl> Oh wow.
22:50:36 <fizzie> Hey, that's from the right place even.
22:50:51 <popl> I just looked at the buffer. You people are crazy with your escape codes and stuff.
22:50:54 <fizzie> fungot: Are you being sentient on us again.
22:50:54 <fungot> fizzie: phantasy, with atmosphere cunningly adapted to the fnord request. mr. ward made a sign that the conference was over, and the snowy peak of mount man grow smaller and smaller. by noon, after a report that the face of the earth when a bullock is sacrificed at the proper time to certain heathen gods. it had
22:51:03 <elliott> phantasy indeed
22:51:11 <Bike> oh i knew that was familiar, nahum is one of the obscure books of the ot i read the other day
22:51:20 <Bike> that goes largely "I am large and in charge, RARGH"
22:51:33 <fizzie> Nahum is also the guy in The Colour Out of Space.
22:51:33 <Gregor> Who is this popl person >_>
22:51:39 <Gregor> I'M AFRAID OF CHANGE
22:51:46 <fizzie> Nahum Gardner.
22:51:47 <GreyKnight> NEW PEOPLE
22:51:48 <popl> I won't be here forever.
22:51:49 <oerjan> a poplar guy
22:51:59 <fizzie> fungot: What happened to Nahum in the end?
22:52:00 <fungot> fizzie: and then, without warning, i saw light and motion in the houses, and winter travelers were represented as taking and fnord orders with marvelous quickness. they seemed sullenly banded together in some sort of interruption. did the obstacle form a complete round or other closed figure, or was just on the brink of uncovering?
22:52:07 <Bike> fizzie: oh, that makes sense. he was supposed to be a hickish guy, right? so he'd have an obscure biblical name like that
22:52:14 <Bike> fizzie: is the fnord thing like the :) thing?
22:52:22 <popl> NO.
22:52:30 <Bike> :(
22:52:38 <popl> Google the fnords.
22:52:39 <GreyKnight> WAT
22:52:54 <hagb4rd> BIKE: it's a discordian thing
22:52:59 <Bike> That sounds disgusting, popl.
22:53:00 <GreyKnight> He's just pining for the fnords
22:53:16 <hagb4rd> he sees the fnords!
22:53:18 <Bike> hagb4rd: oh, you're named after that hagbard, aren't you.
22:53:30 <hagb4rd> kind of yes
22:53:37 <fizzie> Bike: It's kind-of; though it's not exactly a bug. It's related to the same filter, in any case; the tokens that were filtered out were replaced by a special marker token; the babble code represents instances of that in text as "fnord".
22:53:40 <popl> Discordians are disgusting things.
22:53:42 <elliott> Bike: the fnord thing is rare wor- fuck you fizzie
22:54:04 <popl> blah blah hot dog blah flax
22:54:16 <oerjan> GreyKnight: PINING FOR THE FNORDS? what kind of talk is that?
22:54:22 <kmc> their tops are made out of rubber, their bottoms are made out of springs
22:54:30 <fizzie> Technically, it would render out as UNK if it weren't special-cased.
22:54:38 <popl> kmc: I know that entire song.
22:54:41 <popl> kmc: all of it.
22:54:53 <popl> kmc: How dare you.
22:55:21 <fizzie> Also technically the " " between the "nick:" attribution and the first word is I think the separating space between the invisible START token and the first actual word. (Or maybe not.)
22:55:24 <popl> Does that mean we're in the same caste?
22:55:35 <GreyKnight> I'm scared and confused
22:55:38 <fizzie> The princess is in another caste.
22:55:44 <FireFly> How are ^def'd commands stored inside fungespace?
22:56:09 <popl> GreyKnight: you are alive
22:56:27 <GreyKnight> are you sure?
22:56:49 <fizzie> FireFly: IIRC, each command takes up two lines; lines -1, -3, -5, .. are command names, and lines -2, -4, -6, .. contain the actual prograsms. (Well, not full lines; only the x >= 0 halves are reserved.)
22:57:19 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
22:57:21 * GreyKnight has a prograsm
22:57:22 <popl> GreyKnight: NO.
22:57:30 <oerjan> fizzie: yes it is, sometimes fungot will start with punctuation and it gets smeared into the nick
22:57:31 <fungot> oerjan: fnord and blessed by the good father iwanicki.
22:57:34 * GreyKnight pushls popl
22:57:47 -!- sebbu has joined.
22:57:47 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host).
22:57:47 -!- sebbu has joined.
22:58:04 <FireFly> ^style
22:58:04 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft* nethack pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube
22:58:06 <kmc> shachaf: i need a hostname
22:58:12 <popl> GreyKnight: You need to use cryotherapy. We pop up everywhere.
22:58:15 <fizzie> oerjan: I guesseded right. Yay!
22:58:16 <elliott> kmc: do you have a theme
22:58:30 <kmc> kinda
22:58:33 <kmc> achewood characters mostly
22:58:38 <kmc> but sometimes names from spam i get
22:58:40 <GreyKnight> fungot: please come up with a hostname for kmc
22:58:41 <fungot> GreyKnight: we have but to glance fnord at the arras with the long line of treatises on witchcraft and fnord which preceded the belated stroke, whilst evidence concerning the momentary burned odour after the stroke is equally general. a night at an inn in fnord, and a curious coil of wire with attached instruments, i will leave this record behind me that some one else was trying to get possession of my soul.
22:58:54 <elliott> kmc: i know a lot about spam
22:58:56 <fizzie> That's a bit long.
22:58:58 <popl> fungot: great green gobs
22:58:58 <fungot> popl: on the night of the first sea-bottom city, which thrust up
22:59:07 <popl> fungot: googly
22:59:08 <fungot> popl: from her witch grandmother are taught to the child by no mortal father of the young and gay were unknown to us.
22:59:14 <elliott> kmc: okay here are some spam page titles from esowiki
22:59:21 <popl> fungot: woof
22:59:21 <fungot> popl: there came to sarnath on horses and camels and elephants men from thraa, ilarnek, and kadatheron, for the memories of the gods, but the others sat up with heightened interest. the ceaseless
22:59:27 <elliott> kmc: arzum, korkmaz, cotton-box, heliumint
22:59:35 <elliott> kmc: aikido
22:59:50 <elliott> kmc: The Best Place To Grab Cash Financing Very Quickly
23:00:01 <popl> fungot: flow your own tears
23:00:02 <fungot> popl: in this same period sir walter scott frequently concerned himself with the mass lore of fnord drawing upon the fullest resources of his own two-year-old son, who had moved very near. and as it drew nigh there came to
23:00:12 <FireFly> ^style agora
23:00:12 <fungot> Selected style: agora (a large selection of Agora rules, both current and historical)
23:00:13 <GreyKnight> kmc: oh, sarnath!
23:00:21 <Sgeo> esolangs_ebooks
23:00:32 <elliott> kmc: did any of these satisfy
23:00:42 <fizzie> Oh, Sarnath, wonder of the world.
23:00:57 <fizzie> Did you know that in Sarnath were fifty streets from the lake to the gates of the caravans, and fifty more intersecting them?
23:01:05 <elliott> kmc: oh oh oh
23:01:06 <elliott> kmc: newkitten
23:01:08 <elliott> that's a good one
23:01:11 <elliott> (http://esolangs.org/wiki/User:Ehird/Newkitten)
23:01:13 <FireFly> I liked cotton-box
23:01:24 <FireFly> What do you think, fungot?
23:01:24 <GreyKnight> cotton-box sounds like a machine name
23:01:25 <fungot> FireFly: any player who is neither the speaker did not violate the
23:01:26 <kmc> heh
23:01:59 <fizzie> I don't think I managed to sentence-fill this agora thing very properly. It tends to end sentences rather abruptly.
23:02:36 <FireFly> Oh, agora is/was a nomic-related thing?
23:02:55 <FireFly> ^style pa
23:02:55 <fungot> Selected style: pa (around 1200 transcribed Penny Arcade comics)
23:03:09 <FireFly> fungot: how do you think that style will work out?
23:03:10 <fungot> FireFly: so, gamestop buying eb. i was trying to be polite and get this guy to move on, because people were waiting to play.
23:03:55 -!- GreyKnight has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
23:04:09 -!- GreyKnight has joined.
23:04:24 <GreyKnight> This fungot is bananas, B-A-N-A-N-A-nanas
23:04:24 <fungot> GreyKnight: i am inspired by todd mcfarlane's cliche horseshit. his lack of imagination and stunning financial success intrigues me.
23:04:42 <elliott> I was going to `addquote that but I bet it's verbatim.
23:04:43 <GreyKnight> inspired by cliches and lack of imagination, eh?
23:04:57 <Bike> @google "stunning financial success intrigues me"
23:04:58 <lambdabot> http://pennyarcade.wikia.com/wiki/May_5,_2004
23:04:58 <lambdabot> Title: May 5, 2004 - Penny Arcade - Comic, Podcast
23:05:12 <Bike> yep.
23:05:46 <FireFly> fungot: I think that dataset might be a bit small
23:05:47 <fungot> FireFly: third, actually. not really. write that one down. nobody's going to jail. read him his rights.
23:05:55 <popl> bye
23:05:55 -!- popl has left.
23:05:57 <monqy> % of fungot quotes present in qdb actually verbatim???
23:05:57 <fungot> monqy: ' 98? you know? in the night. i've still got that paladin on dark iron, i guess. eyes closed, pal. n v.
23:06:15 <FireFly> ^style iwcs
23:06:16 <fungot> Selected style: iwcs (Irregular Webcomic scripts)
23:06:36 <FireFly> fungot: hi
23:06:36 <fungot> FireFly: sorry, i don't know, some more booze and now, if you eat, eat, eat, eat! contains exactly the items! stop! the yeti stops
23:06:52 <ion> hask
23:06:56 <ion> whoops
23:07:11 <elliott> monqy: well the true fungot brilliance is when it doesn't make sense
23:07:11 -!- NihilistDandy has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.).
23:07:12 <fungot> elliott: sorry, i don't know, some more booze and now, if you eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat! contains exactly the items!
23:07:12 <elliott> `quote our lord
23:07:14 <HackEgo> 563) <fungot> sadhu: it's been said that boole is the crowning jewel perched precariously upon the perfect peak of programmer prowess, casting its limitless limpid light over the loathesome lands of those who scuff and wallow in the dreary dust of digital depravity and unbounded wilful ignorance of the testament of our lord jesus christ into your l
23:07:19 <elliott> monqy: ...for instance the thing fungot just said now
23:07:20 <fungot> elliott: the only thing worse would be being captured by this pathetic. he... uh... forgot to resupply for our trek a couple of hours. he's gone to sleep, kept on doing the rearguard scouting party, gotta stay calm and serene! thanks, i was forgetting the time! as the woman runs past julius
23:07:34 <elliott> `addquote <fungot> elliott: sorry, i don't know, some more booze and now, if you eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat! contains exactly the items!
23:07:35 <fungot> elliott: how are you going?! come about fer a broadside! prepare to be annihilated! are you okay?! greedo, old general, ex machina about now on! sallah, you go uruguay, we'll go ours. or god, you're a doughnut?
23:07:38 <HackEgo> 870) <fungot> elliott: sorry, i don't know, some more booze and now, if you eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat! contains exactly the items!
23:07:54 <elliott> Gregor: P.S. quote 563 is cut off now; didn't use to be; please fix
23:08:35 <Gregor> Strange, I thought I had the same cutoff...
23:09:22 <elliott> > length ":HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :"
23:09:24 <lambdabot> 42
23:09:26 <elliott> > 512 - length ":HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :"
23:09:28 <lambdabot> 470
23:09:32 <elliott> Gregor: In my professional opinion the limit should be 470 bytes
23:09:49 <elliott> (It could also just compute the maximum length)
23:09:50 <monqy> elliott: but 563 is near-verbatim.........
23:09:57 <Gregor> Hehehe
23:10:16 <monqy> just the very beginning and end are different
23:10:17 <elliott> monqy: but the twist is what makes it worthwhile
23:10:18 <fizzie> You must allow for the \r\n at the end, too.
23:10:32 <elliott> monqy: btw what is it actually a quote from if anything
23:10:34 <elliott> fizzie: oh point
23:10:38 <elliott> > 512 - length ":HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :" - 2
23:10:40 <lambdabot> 468
23:10:40 <shachaf> kmc: Did you find a hostname?
23:10:44 <monqy> #scheme logs
23:10:46 <monqy> 23:15:11 <incubot> Someone once said BOOLE is the crowning jewel perched precariously upon the perfect peak of programmer prowess, casting its limitless limpid light over the lands of those who scuff and wallow in the dreary dust of digital depravity and unbounded wilful ignorance of the testament of Our Lord God as channeled through the X3J13 committee.
23:10:46 <elliott> Gregor: How about 460 as a limit
23:10:53 <elliott> monqy: incu"bot"
23:10:57 <elliott> not really verbatim
23:11:00 <monqy> pffffffff
23:11:10 <elliott> monqy: btw do you have comprehensive #scheme logs???? ? ? ?
23:11:16 <elliott> i thought you didn't even log for ages
23:11:27 <monqy> no i just searched for "limitless limpid light"
23:11:30 <Bike> boole is... a jewel... okay
23:11:35 <monqy> and that came up
23:11:39 <monqy> along with glogbot logs
23:11:40 <elliott> but i googled and it turned up nothing......... imo monqy is cheating
23:11:54 <shachaf> monqy are you cheating
23:12:09 <elliott> 11:32:46 <fungot> fizzie: i saw the movie of the book deals almost exclusively with sushi, actually... creative.
23:12:10 <fungot> elliott: make it 10... 9... because that's not confusing at all... leads the way into a pitch black tunnel
23:12:11 <shachaf> don't cheat
23:12:25 <monqy> http://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/scheme/2009-08/scheme-2009.08.24.txt is the log
23:12:58 <monqy> it doesnt look like incubot is a bot....
23:13:04 <elliott> monqy: looks like incubot is a bot
23:13:06 <elliott> that quotes verbatim from logs
23:13:08 <elliott> given a search string
23:13:16 <elliott> or something
23:13:20 <elliott> 23:14:58 <Riastradh> incubot: boole?
23:13:20 <elliott> 23:15:01 <incubot> what is boole?
23:13:20 <elliott> 23:15:09 <zbigniew> incubot: limpid
23:13:22 <elliott> 23:15:11 <incubot> Someone once said BOOLE is the crowning jewel perched precariously upon the perfect peak of programmer prowess, casting its limitless limpid light over the lands of those who scuff and wallow in the dreary dust of digital depravity and unbounded wilful ignorance of the testament of Our Lord God as channeled through the X3J13 committee.
23:13:28 <elliott> this is not the interaction of a human...
23:13:39 <elliott> also it only seems to talk whenever anyone pings it so there's that
23:13:41 -!- evitable has joined.
23:13:45 <monqy> oh
23:13:45 <Bike> you're just bigoted
23:13:49 <elliott> 02:19:09 <zbigniew> incubot: (expt 2 67)
23:13:50 <elliott> 02:19:09 <incubot> 1.47573952589676e+20
23:13:53 <elliott> also it runs scheme code.........
23:14:01 <monqy> incubot looks like a very good bot
23:14:02 <fizzie> Many people run on Scheme code.
23:14:13 <Bike> why is the result a float
23:14:51 <monqy> so nows the question of how did incubot produce that
23:14:59 <elliott> Bike: that result doesn't *necessarily* represent a float
23:15:20 <Bike> what, in the same way 4 might not necessarily represent an integer?
23:15:31 <kmc> shachaf: maybe "lycoperdon"
23:15:40 <kmc> it's a type of cool looking mushroom and also means "wolf farts"
23:15:45 <shachaf> kmc: I have a simple system for naming all my computers.
23:15:48 <elliott> kmc: upset that none of my suggestions have been accepted
23:15:58 <Bike> it's hard to beat wolf farts, don't be upset
23:15:58 <shachaf> @wn lycoperdon
23:15:59 <lambdabot> *** "lycoperdon" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)"
23:16:00 <lambdabot> Lycoperdon
23:16:00 <lambdabot> n 1: genus of fungi whose fruiting body tapers toward a base
23:16:00 <lambdabot> consisting of spongy mycelium [syn: {Lycoperdon}, {genus
23:16:00 <lambdabot> Lycoperdon}]
23:16:04 <kmc> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/04/Lycoperdon_umbrinum.JPG
23:16:04 <elliott> Bike: in the same way that how you format a number shouldn't really have much to do with its type
23:16:07 <elliott> > 1 :: Double
23:16:08 <lambdabot> 1.0
23:16:11 <kmc> shachaf: what's your system
23:16:12 <elliott> > 1.0 :: Integer -- flaw of the Haskell standard
23:16:14 <lambdabot> No instance for (GHC.Real.Fractional GHC.Integer.Type.Integer)
23:16:14 <lambdabot> arising f...
23:16:18 <shachaf> kmc: Chemical elements.
23:16:25 <kmc> yeah
23:16:26 <shachaf> kmc: That way I get the last octet of the IP address for free.
23:16:27 <kmc> that one's pretty common
23:16:44 <shachaf> Or at least I hadn't heard of it.
23:16:46 <FireFly> I have a boring way of naming my boxes...
23:16:55 <monqy> ugh i cant seem to find the origin of limitless limpid light.....
23:16:58 <FireFly> I have firefly-desky and firefly-lappy and ...
23:17:02 <monqy> it's all people fishing for incubot to recall it
23:17:08 <shachaf> FireFly-phoney?
23:17:42 <FireFly> I did have a firefly-n900
23:17:45 <elliott> ask fizzie
23:17:46 <Bike> elliott: well now i'm just wondering why integers aren't Fractionals apparently?
23:17:48 <elliott> he has local #scheme logs presumably
23:17:52 <elliott> @src Fractional
23:17:52 <lambdabot> class (Num a) => Fractional a where
23:17:52 <lambdabot> (/) :: a -> a -> a
23:17:52 <lambdabot> recip :: a -> a
23:17:52 <lambdabot> fromRational :: Rational -> a
23:17:54 -!- keb has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
23:18:00 <elliott> Bike: because you cannot implement a single one of those operations for integers
23:18:07 <elliott> 1.0 should actually just be (Num a) => a
23:18:10 <elliott> there's no fractional part
23:18:11 -!- evitable has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
23:18:20 -!- keb has joined.
23:18:28 <monqy> fizzie: do you by any chance have local scheme logs from about when someone first said "limitless limpid light"
23:19:03 <elliott> 00:17:28 <emma> is there any good tutorial or documentation on how to get scheme to 'interface' with the 'outside world' ?
23:19:39 <Gregor> lol
23:20:00 <fizzie> monqy: Probably not, I didn't spend all that long on #scheme.
23:20:54 <monqy> im getting an archive of old #scheme logs
23:20:56 <fizzie> grep -i limpid * http://sprunge.us/HHYj not very useful.
23:21:03 <monqy> hopefully this will shed some light on the mystery......
23:21:13 <monqy> with any luck it was actually first said in #scheme and not just carried over....
23:21:17 <elliott> shed some limitless limpid light
23:21:31 <GreyKnight> "outside world", quote-unquote
23:21:44 <fizzie> 2003-12 is when I first joined there, and it was already known by sarahbot then.
23:21:53 <elliott> 08:50:52 <ski> @quote scuff
23:21:53 <elliott> 08:50:52 <lambdabot> minion says: BOOLE is the crowning jewel perched precariously upon the perfect peak of programmer prowess, casting its limitless limpid light over the lands of those who scuff and wallow in the
23:21:57 <elliott> monqy: -- haskell logs
23:21:58 <elliott> @quote minion scuff
23:21:58 <lambdabot> No quotes for this person. Take a stress pill and think things over.
23:22:00 <elliott> @quote minion BOOLE
23:22:01 <lambdabot> No quotes for this person. You speak an infinite deal of nothing
23:22:04 <elliott> maybe it got wiped
23:22:09 <elliott> monqy: haskell logs are available on tunes.org
23:22:13 <elliott> so you should be able to grep those for the @remember
23:22:27 <elliott> tho its cross-bot popularity makes me think it originates elsewhere
23:22:42 <Bike> minion is also a bot... how deep does this rabbithole go
23:22:44 <monqy> i'll grab haskell logs too
23:23:02 <elliott> Bike: haha are you serious
23:23:06 <elliott> googling suggests so
23:23:09 <Bike> yes, it is a lisp bot
23:23:10 <elliott> 23:22:56 -!- minion [~minion@tiger.common-lisp.net]
23:23:12 <elliott> mmmm
23:23:16 <elliott> oh right you are from #clojure aren't you
23:23:26 <Bike> more or less
23:23:32 <elliott> "Sgeo-from" #clojure
23:23:36 <elliott> I hear he's a #clojure celebrity
23:23:49 <elliott> monqy: so i think someone saw minion quote this Classique Probably-#scheme Line and decided to add it to lambdabot
23:23:54 <elliott> thinking the bot wrote it
23:23:59 <Bike> is tht in the same way he's an #esoteric celebrity
23:24:19 <elliott> Bike: i have no idea in which way it is. all i know is apparently people ask him things in #clojure??
23:24:23 <elliott> I think I have never been in #clojure
23:24:43 <GreyKnight> Sgeo is Internet famous all over the place
23:25:06 <Bike> i've only been in #clojure once... and it was to talk to sgeo
23:25:13 <Bike> gosh i guess he must be celebritic indeed
23:25:15 <elliott> GreyKnight: is he
23:25:35 <elliott> Bike: are you saying sgeo managed to get you to join #esoteric in the very first conversation you had with him
23:25:50 <shachaf> The GHC code has a line that matches this regexp: /^ +\t+ +\t+ +\t+ +\t+ +\t+ +/
23:26:05 <GreyKnight> you can't go anywhere without running into Sgeo and his fans
23:26:10 <Bike> elliott: i... i don't remember
23:26:12 <Bike> i'm scared now
23:26:13 <hagb4rd> yes goold old Sgeo. we would have been lost without his light and providance
23:26:24 <shachaf> kmc: Also I reuse hostnames.
23:26:26 <GreyKnight> limpid light
23:26:27 <shachaf> Because I forget.
23:27:11 <Sgeo> Bike, I think I was talking in #lisp about Clojure and everyone else was getting mad about that
23:27:20 <Bike> yes i remember that much
23:27:26 <Bike> but where does #esoteric come in?!
23:27:35 <oerjan> so basically we have a fungot quote that has been inherited through a long path of bots, probably starting with some _other_ markovbot...
23:27:35 <fungot> oerjan: my name is dr. montana, sir. i told you i be a hobbit, did the east of paris. made of plaster
23:27:36 <Bike> what could have happened to bring me here
23:27:38 <Bike> what am i
23:27:49 <elliott> isn't #lisp specifically about common lisp
23:27:56 <Bike> yes, that's why we moved to clojure
23:27:57 <GreyKnight> `rng scheme haskell factor common-lisp
23:27:59 <HackEgo> factor
23:28:06 <Sgeo> elliott, yes. I may have been contrasting Common Lisp with Clojure
23:28:11 <Bike> because we were talking about... i forget what
23:28:12 <GreyKnight> yay new command
23:28:13 <elliott> that sounds like a not good thing to do
23:28:15 <Bike> macros and environments or some shit
23:28:23 <Sgeo> Bike, macro hygiene in CL vs Clojure I think?
23:28:27 <Bike> yeah sounds right
23:28:46 <GreyKnight> `rng HackEgo EgoBot Gregor
23:28:47 <HackEgo> HackEgo
23:28:53 <GreyKnight> Selfish.
23:29:31 <oerjan> \rng rg rng rig ring
23:29:33 <oerjan> oops
23:29:37 <oerjan> `rng rg rng rig ring
23:29:38 <HackEgo> ring
23:29:42 <monqy> first appearance in the scheme logs on tunes was from sarahbot......
23:29:50 <shachaf> `rng rng rng rng rng rng rng banana phone
23:29:51 <HackEgo> rng
23:30:04 <Bike> goddamn, are there more bots than people in this network
23:30:16 <Bike> how do i know what anybody is any more
23:30:22 <GreyKnight> `rng haskell feather sleep sleep
23:30:23 <HackEgo> sleep
23:30:25 <Bike> was the earlier blade runner thing a sign?
23:30:35 -!- GreyKnight has quit (Quit: zzz).
23:30:45 <hagb4rd> bike: turing test
23:31:02 <Bike> is that a test to see if i have esp
23:31:05 <oerjan> Bike: why do you think that the earlier blader runner thing is a sign?
23:31:09 <FireFly> fungot: say something enlightening to prove that you're human
23:31:09 <fungot> FireFly: but, but... that's not a fish. it's a lump of rock! we didn't give any thought the guys at nasa has fast-tracked a prototype deep has held out well there's a strange alien monster.
23:31:10 <oerjan> *-r
23:31:16 <oerjan> worst elizabot ever
23:31:17 <Bike> oerjan: D:
23:31:35 <Bike> i'm going to go stare at M-x psychoanalyze-pinhead until i throw up, brb
23:32:07 <FireFly> ^style irc
23:32:07 <fungot> Selected style: irc (IRC logs of freenode/#esoteric, freenode/#scheme and ircnet/#douglasadams)
23:32:20 <FireFly> irc is the best fungot style.
23:32:20 <fungot> FireFly: why do you have a picture of irc on another channel
23:32:31 <FireFly> fungot: I do?
23:32:33 <fungot> FireFly: chubby checker just had a big meal before i came. and in general everything is undecidable, i accept the true faith. you know that
23:32:41 <FireFly> TMI
23:33:18 <elliott> monqy: what about the old logs
23:33:20 <elliott> as in the archived tunes logs
23:33:27 <elliott> or is that what you downloaded
23:33:59 <monqy> i downloaded the pre-2011 clog logs.....or am i supposed to sift through the pre-clog logs too :[
23:34:06 <oerjan> the great old logs
23:35:01 <elliott> monqy: there's no pre-clog #scheme logs i think
23:35:06 * Sgeo is now wondering if he private messaged Bike about #esoteric
23:35:17 <Sgeo> I don't think I would have mentioned this place publically
23:35:28 <Bike> well i know i'd seen the wiki before you talked to me
23:35:38 <monqy> im looking through https://code.google.com/p/irc-logs/source/search?q=limitless+limpid+light&origq=limitless+limpid+light&btnG=Search+Trunk but so far it's not turning up anything before its 2003 appearances in scheme
23:35:57 <Sgeo> Deciding to join #esoteric without me mentioning it then?
23:36:10 <Sgeo> I remember having the feeling that you coming in here was a coincidence
23:36:11 <elliott> Your search - limitless limpid light package:irc-logs\.googlecode\.com - did not match any documents.
23:36:14 <elliott> monqy: help ?
23:36:16 <Bike> i don't know man, i just don't know
23:36:51 <monqy> elliott: it turns up 41 results for me...
23:37:11 <elliott> `pastelogs <Bike
23:37:17 <elliott> Bike: btw your name is bad for log-grepping. please adopt a new one
23:37:43 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.17910
23:37:52 <elliott> wow
23:37:52 <shachaf> Bike: I recommend "eliot"
23:37:59 <elliott> sgeo quoted bike two months before bike joined
23:38:09 <Bike> what
23:38:09 <shachaf> `welcome Bike
23:38:11 <HackEgo> Bike: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
23:38:30 <elliott> http://codu.org/logs/log/_esoteric/2012-08-18#044652
23:38:35 <Bike> maybe /i/ am the celebrity
23:38:50 <MDude> I wodner when was the last time the MDude who actually registered the name on this server showed up.
23:39:07 <Sgeo> I was interested in the whole environments thing
23:39:09 <Bike> i don't even understand what he's talking about there
23:39:16 <Bike> oh, a typo
23:39:23 <Sgeo> Because kmc was giddy about Kernel
23:39:32 <Sgeo> And I was interested in CL at this time, I think
23:39:39 <oerjan> clearly Bike came here to #esoteric because someone from the future accidentally planted the idea in his dreams while trying to write a feather program.
23:39:47 <Bike> kmc likes kernel, huh
23:39:50 <elliott> "giddy"
23:39:59 <elliott> I quite like Kernel too
23:40:03 <Bike> well i think you were wrong to call cl environments first-class
23:40:09 <Bike> hopefully i imparted that back then
23:40:22 <Bike> especially compared to kernel where you can do all kinds of wacky shit with 'em.
23:40:58 <Sgeo> I tend to think of "Can I get it as a value? It's first class" as the meaning of first class
23:41:23 <elliott> apparently Bike's first visit to #esoteric was so terrible he didn't come back for 12 days
23:41:34 <Bike> are we stalking me now
23:41:39 -!- Arc_Koen has quit (Quit: The struct held his beloved integer in his strong, protecting arms, his eyes like sapphire orbs staring into her own. "W-will you... Will you union me?").
23:41:58 <oerjan> MDude: um MDude is not registered
23:42:01 <elliott> Bike: let's say no
23:42:10 <Taneb> Bike, when they stalked me the found out the town I live in!
23:42:11 <monqy> i'm still stalking boole but it's pretty unfruitful
23:42:13 <Taneb> In two days!
23:42:25 <Sgeo> AFk
23:42:41 <fizzie> Taneb: It helps that it's the only town in town.
23:42:44 <Bike> Taneb: well is it a nice town
23:43:07 <elliott> it was the ingenious method of stalking known as "guessing because it's really improbable"
23:43:15 <elliott> (me and Taneb live in the same small (pop ~11k) town. we have never met)
23:43:22 <MDude> Did #esoteric move to a different server or something?
23:43:28 <MDude> It was registered for a long time.
23:43:34 <elliott> old accounts got purged recently
23:43:39 <monqy> it's on dalnet now
23:43:41 <shachaf> elliott: pop ~11k?
23:43:43 <elliott> but you could have just gotten it given to you in #freenode any time
23:43:45 <shachaf> That's not small.
23:43:49 <elliott> accounts that haven't been used for a month or so can be dropped
23:43:51 <shachaf> pop ~9k is small
23:44:05 -!- WeThePeople has joined.
23:44:07 <fizzie> Oh, so the line goes right at 10k?
23:44:09 <Taneb> elliott, it is definitely at least "medium-sized"
23:44:14 <shachaf> (The town I lived in is pop ~9k.)
23:44:15 * Fiora looks around at her ~23m metropolitan area
23:44:16 <Bike> i'm going to assume the two of you live on esperanza base or something
23:44:24 <MDude> Well then I'd like to know the last time he showed anyway, just because curious.
23:44:28 <elliott> an 11k town next to a 279k city is small imo
23:44:33 <elliott> but yes it's not especially small as towns go
23:44:42 <elliott> Bike: ...yes.
23:44:52 <Bike> it's only logical.
23:44:52 <FireFly> Fiora: ...took me a few seconds to realise the m wasn't for meters
23:45:05 <shachaf> Bike: I used to live in a small town in the Pacific Northwest!
23:45:09 <shachaf> (No longer.)
23:45:10 <elliott> Taneb: OK our fate is sealed, we have to go to that base sometmie
23:45:22 <Bike> shachaf: i'm sorry
23:45:24 <Fiora> (LA is really big)
23:45:35 <shachaf> Fiora: Don't live in Louisiana!
23:45:38 <elliott> Fiora: 23M is a pretty big town IMO
23:45:39 <Taneb> elliott, I concur
23:45:40 <shachaf> Or Los Angeles.
23:45:44 <Fiora> the latter :P
23:45:45 <oerjan> MDude: hard to tell when he's been purged from the database...
23:45:50 <shachaf> Don't do it, Fiora!
23:45:50 <Fiora> Louisina doesn't even have that many people I think
23:45:56 <MDude> Ah, alright.
23:45:57 <Fiora> I already live there :P
23:46:02 <shachaf> Don't!
23:46:06 <MDude> Wasn't sure how it worked.
23:46:07 <shachaf> I was in Los Angeles a few months ago.
23:46:10 <Fiora> how can I not? XD
23:46:14 <Bike> antarctica sounds like just about the worst summer vacation ever
23:46:18 <shachaf> It gave me the impression of not wanting to live in Los Angeles.
23:46:27 <elliott> all I know about los angeles is that they have hollywood there and hollywood is weird
23:46:29 <shachaf> Fiora: By moving to the Pacific Northwest!
23:46:34 <shachaf> Or to San Francisco.
23:46:34 * FireFly lives in an approx. 16k pop suburb of a 1M pop city
23:46:34 <elliott> also it's big
23:46:38 <Bike> as long as you have spare gas masks LA is fine
23:46:38 <shachaf> Or one of those places.
23:46:39 <elliott> maybe monqy knows more about los angeles
23:46:46 <shachaf> monqy: are you los angeles
23:46:55 <hagb4rd> and that if you want to learn basketball you start in south central
23:47:06 <monqy> hi
23:47:14 <shachaf> monqy: whats america like!!
23:47:41 <oerjan> Bike: i think it's an even worse winter vacation hth
23:47:41 <elliott> hmm
23:47:50 <elliott> I think I have actually never been to an actually huge city ever
23:47:57 <kmc> what
23:47:58 <shachaf> Fiora: You should move to San Lorenzo.
23:48:01 <kmc> haven't you been to london at least
23:48:09 <elliott> kmc: in fact no
23:48:11 <Fiora> but this is where my apartment and job and things are :<
23:48:13 <shachaf> I've been to London.
23:48:14 <FireFly> What?
23:48:19 <Bike> also san lorenzo doesn't exist
23:48:39 <shachaf> Bike: yes it does
23:48:42 <shachaf> Hmm.
23:48:45 <shachaf> Bike: yes it does
23:48:46 <Bike> if you want to specify a small island nationoid you should go with fernando poo for that reason
23:48:48 <elliott> okay I think the largest city I have ever been to is probably Edinburgh, which is just weird
23:48:49 <shachaf> Eugh.
23:48:51 <elliott> well
23:48:55 <elliott> maybe I've been momentarily in other cities that I just don't remember
23:48:56 <Bike> no the first one was red, that worked
23:49:13 <shachaf> elliott: Edinburgh is "p. cool", they say.
23:49:14 <elliott> wait I tell a lie I've been to Dusseldorf
23:49:25 <Bike> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter-over_syndrome your vacation is going to be fun, elliottaneb
23:49:26 <elliott> apparently that has a lot of people although I barely remember it
23:49:44 <elliott> Bike: we'll just go in the summer when it's nice and warm
23:49:54 <elliott> also I've wanted to go to Antarctica for ages anyway!!
23:50:01 <fizzie> London might be the biggest city I've been in, isn't it quite biggish?
23:50:04 <Bike> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polar_T3_syndrome goddamn, just being there makes you go insane
23:50:08 <FireFly> I don't think Antarctica has a very high pop
23:50:08 <Bike> this is my kind of continent
23:50:11 <elliott> yes london is pretty big
23:50:12 <shachaf> elliott: Is Antarctica a big city?
23:50:19 <FireFly> It might not count as a large city
23:50:26 <Bike> well it's large and it has buildings
23:50:41 <Bike> "good enough for me"
23:50:59 <elliott> antarctica is so cool (DONT MAKE THE OBVIOUS JOKE) they have runways with variable elevation
23:51:04 <elliott> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_airports_in_Antarctica
23:51:13 <Taneb> I've been to London, LA, Rome, Istanbul (not Constantinople, though), Hong Kong, Melbourne...
23:51:17 <hagb4rd> dusseldorf? it's kind of the opposite of cologne where i live (not really but the cities are so close to each other that they rivals in the way we discussed here iirc)
23:51:19 <Taneb> #well travelled Taneb
23:51:20 <elliott> i think this is in fact the objective standard for cool
23:51:21 <shachaf> by cool you mean cold??
23:51:27 <fizzie> Is London bigger than Paris? I would assume so.
23:51:31 <Bike> elliott: ok that sounds basically terrifying
23:51:52 <Taneb> fizzie, quite significantly so
23:52:10 <Bike> jesus christ, they have an airfield at vostok
23:52:31 <Taneb> Wait no
23:52:35 <Taneb> Depends how you measure it
23:52:53 <elliott> an interesting fact about antarctica is that it is cold
23:52:53 <Bike> actually i should see how that whole digging up lake-shoggoths expedition was going
23:53:01 <elliott> didn't they get in and it was boring
23:53:03 <fizzie> Taneb: You put all the people in it into a bath tub and measure the displaced volume.
23:53:05 <Taneb> By population of urban area, London is smaller
23:53:15 <Bike> last i heard they were going to have to take forever to do "scientific" "analysis" on it
23:53:22 <hagb4rd> yes.. the pinguins
23:53:23 <Vorpal> why is it that the steam linux beta is super-smooth and fast and the windows client suffers from bad network lag as soon as you try to use any of the features that requires anything online.
23:53:29 <hagb4rd> good scene
23:53:38 <Taneb> City proper and metropolitan area, Paris is smaller
23:53:41 <elliott> oh i forgot about the dry valley
23:53:47 <elliott> objectively the best continent imo
23:53:53 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving).
23:53:56 <Taneb> By number of Michelin-starred restaurants, Paris is smaller
23:54:04 <Taneb> elliott, Australasia has itidus20
23:54:08 <shachaf> Vorpal: BECAUSE WINDWOES RIGHT?????
23:54:16 <FireFly> Sounds like a good measurement, Taneb
23:54:26 <Bike> «The region is one of the world's most extreme deserts, and includes many interesting features including Lake Vida and the Onyx River, Antarctica's longest river.» the most interesting features of the desert include: things that aren't deserts
23:54:29 <Vorpal> shachaf, it doesn't make any sense in this context
23:54:46 <elliott> Taneb: Australasia isn't a continent!!!!
23:54:51 <elliott> it's called Australia now
23:54:53 <shachaf> Vorpal: Steam is one of the worst Windows programs I've used.
23:55:04 <elliott> Bike: http://photography.nationalgeographic.com/staticfiles/NGS/Shared/StaticFiles/Photography/Images/POD/a/antarctica-dry-valley-516357-sw.jpg
23:55:06 <Bike> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Mummified_Seal_Carcas_in_McMurdo_Dry_Valleys_.jpg yeah this seems like a nice place elliott
23:55:12 <Taneb> elliott, when did that happen!
23:55:19 <Taneb> shachaf, better or worse than Gimp?
23:55:20 <elliott> IIRC NASA tested some stuff there because it is really close to the conditions on Mars or something
23:55:23 <shachaf> Taneb: Worse.
23:55:38 <Taneb> How about iTunes?
23:55:38 <shachaf> Mars: A NASA conspiracy?
23:55:42 <fizzie> Oh, I've been to Cairo, I think that's biggish too? Is it bigger than London?
23:55:42 <elliott> Bike: clearly you just don't understand the beauty of death
23:55:44 <shachaf> I've never used iTunes.
23:55:50 <Taneb> Don't, it sucks
23:55:58 <elliott> fizzie: are you a mummy irl
23:56:16 <Bike> the longest river is 32 km
23:56:18 <Bike> that's pretty terrible
23:56:21 <fizzie> Seems to depend again on the measurement method.
23:56:23 <Vorpal> shachaf, well true, but I'm just utterly surprised that the store pages load quickly. Since Steam works just fine in offline mode, or when not going outside the library page, I always attributed that to network lag, thinking the servers were probably in US.
23:56:31 <shachaf> fizzie: are you my mother?
23:56:37 <Vorpal> shachaf, so I'm just shocked that it doesn't behave like that under linux
23:56:50 <shachaf> Vorpal: Steam is terrible in the US too.
23:56:51 <Bike> «Samples of the freshly frozen water in the ice well are expected to be collected at the end of 2012 when the new Antarctic summer starts» goddamn it that's right now!
23:57:13 <FireFly> That's reassuring
23:57:19 <Vorpal> shachaf, so loading pages in it is super slow there too? Huh
23:57:40 <Vorpal> shachaf, with super slow being upwards of 15 seconds *average*
23:57:49 <Bike> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Sovetskaya_lake_modis_2004_lrg.jpg antarctica i don't think you understand lakes.
23:57:56 <FireFly> Eh, that's worse than what I've experienced
23:58:05 <Vorpal> FireFly, hm really?
23:58:14 <Vorpal> FireFly, it is especially bad during sales btw
23:58:18 <elliott> Bike: it was only given one colour to paint its canvas with
23:58:20 <elliott> does the best it can
23:58:27 <Vorpal> and I usually keep steam in offline mode when there isn't a sale
23:58:28 <FireFly> Although.. I can't remember the last time I used the windows version of steam *on windows*
23:58:29 <fizzie> Vorpal: I've noticed all network-related things (store, community, etc.) be really slow. But maybe more in the 5-10 second range than 15+.
23:58:40 <FireFly> (I've had it running under wine for a while though)
23:59:06 <Vorpal> fizzie, I said upwards of 15, not 15+, but sure
23:59:17 <elliott> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/90_Degrees_East
23:59:20 <elliott> let's talk about how shitty a name this is
23:59:22 <shachaf> Vorpal: So 15.0000001+?
23:59:35 <Vorpal> anyway I'm seeing 2-3 second delay under the linux beta client
23:59:42 <Vorpal> which is actually reasonable
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