< 1355961616 264617 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not a bad first approximation, though there are .s in many more places than just ends of sentences. < 1355961636 149400 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Do you remember how this style was made? < 1355961636 539041 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: 110 if n 0 is displayed normally by the kernal make heavy use of these locations must be selected through this ram for this bit position < 1355961646 114832 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4d0b6008.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you have used a more advanced approach? < 1355961661 846763 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember what I've used. < 1355961712 950302 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "word consisting of a single uppercase letter immediately before the . means it's not a sentence-ending ." can be a useful heuristic too. < 1355961732 33067 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the most advanced approach gave him a memory wipe afterwards. < 1355961757 903598 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4d0b6008.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION giggles < 1355961759 897898 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gets "J. Doe" style names right; breaks on poetic sentences that, say, end in I. < 1355961782 545560 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or end in the name of the king Fungot I. < 1355961808 616331 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot < 1355961808 940967 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: if you wish to read the changing output of sid or processed through the kernal < 1355961821 130685 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1355961821 476932 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64* ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube < 1355961824 935696 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote end to all < 1355961826 554390 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :449) fizzie: i, myself, will bring an end to all. < 1355961838 398999 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi fungot < 1355961838 868757 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: lfn-the logical file to be eaten, then type this: lx 0 ( medium gray) 152 ( 98) to zero amplitude after the switch. since this table is to establish the makeup of logical lines, or errors that have occurred during the i/ o < 1355961997 21471 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Ping timeout: 251 seconds < 1355962029 798145 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1355962203 869038 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1355964985 430839 :sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Factor screws up dynamic scoping. < 1355965026 98762 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1355965036 959283 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the joke that dynamic scoping is a screw up < 1355965114 931573 :sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No < 1355965129 427606 :sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :SYMBOL: foo < 1355965134 897736 :sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :SYMBOL: bar < 1355965172 221609 :sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :5 bar [ 3 foo set ] with-variable < 1355965176 130982 :sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Behaves differently fro < 1355965178 918162 :sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*from < 1355965181 819330 :sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 foo set < 1355965234 639664 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the real question why you'd want to do that < 1355965239 674271 :sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No < 1355965250 64837 :sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, yes, why would you want to behave differently < 1355965256 723743 :sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can break stuff < 1355965256 817074 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :more of a mystery than a question i guess :-0 < 1355965283 55127 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what sort of stuff < 1355965297 712031 :sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Suppose you write a word that takes in a quotation < 1355965322 583020 :sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unbeknownst to the quotation, you want to use dynamic scoping for a specific variable, to pass in some stuff to another word you write < 1355965335 565214 :sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you use this dynamic scoping stuff, it might not remain unbeknownst < 1355965377 931392 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :good thing i don't want to use dynamic scoping < 1355965381 34512 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might instead be rebeknownst. < 1355965405 583931 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, the quality of a symbol being dynamically scoped is itself dynamically scoped? < 1355965480 699817 :sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's more that all variables are forced in a new dynamic scope when you use with-scope. It's like, in a Lisp, let'ing all special variables to their current value every time you let one < 1355965558 92744 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :dynamic scoping sure is excitingn. < 1355965603 632482 :sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sometimes think it's more essential in Factor than it is in other languages < 1355965655 109949 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually yeah why does a stack language even have scope < 1355965723 438105 :sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it can be useful sometimes? < 1355965736 988057 :sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, there's no lexical scoping unless you use it < 1355965754 43742 :sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(use lexical scoping, I mean) < 1355965789 264877 :sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Lexical scoping is provided as a library. As is dynamic scoping) < 1355966215 560685 :myndzi!myndzi@2600:3c01::f03c:91ff:fedf:3d4e QUIT :Quit: . < 1355967565 935276 :sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still wish I knew what kind of idiot calls a programming language "Factor" in the age of search engines < 1355967614 119938 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You. < 1355967631 677818 :sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is not Slava Pestov. < 1355967670 861399 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I think it is not idiotic I think it is OK. It is you who are over reliance on search engines. < 1355968153 28933 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quiet zzo38 < 1355968161 750102 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :avoid success at all costs hurff durff < 1355968171 273136 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is sgeo going on about factor again < 1355968185 343790 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is kmc bringing up a pet peeve < 1355968196 507235 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: #esoteric exists only in your mind < 1355968202 30691 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is god in his heaven and is all right with the world < 1355968213 362157 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :we are archetypes you have constructed to externalize parts of your own personality < 1355968214 215480 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :sgeo: You could say that about most any name. < 1355968223 867197 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this explains so much < 1355968228 894776 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except Web 2.0y names like "Clojure". < 1355968239 438784 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or 'shachaf' < 1355968248 780060 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the genius movement of web 2.0y < 1355968254 918969 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :finally we have searchable names? < 1355968268 321489 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: symmetric lenses are "pretty cool huh" < 1355968274 17562 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi shachaf < 1355968281 810927 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, apparently your name means 'seagull'? < 1355968288 355533 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Apparently it does! < 1355968289 186862 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess who didn't follow your advice not to learn lens!!!!!!! < 1355968292 809148 :sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, does "COBOL" have any other meaning? < 1355968299 120911 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my condolensations < 1355968303 630114 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: oh no you learned lens???????? < 1355968308 853584 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :only "sort of" < 1355968312 814507 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sgeo, it's that corporation in inception < 1355968318 245672 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: i saw your ip address getting pr.hs < 1355968322 695208 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't have any experience with lens but i "get it" < 1355968328 388991 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"so i kind of knew already" < 1355968336 644985 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"oops" < 1355968361 435749 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: did you learn ordinary lenses or twanvl lenses or symmetric lenses < 1355968363 607130 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :according to the SGEOBE Index, Clojure is still 140% more popular than Factor < 1355968381 994233 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does that stand for < 1355968384 846900 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: btw puzzle!! < 1355968385 431766 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :class Weird g where foo :: (b -> t) -> ((a -> b) -> s -> t) -> (g a -> b) -> g s -> t < 1355968388 892195 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :instance Weird Identity where foo mk mp f = mp (f . Identity) . runIdentity < 1355968389 889168 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but Factor's popularity has surged in recent days < 1355968390 971554 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :what should Weird be?? < 1355968393 422090 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :instance Weird Proxy where foo mk mp f = mk . f . coerce < 1355968409 109707 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i learned the twanvl style "lens families" < 1355968414 572638 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :already knew ordinary lenses ages ago < 1355968418 421023 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: "excellent choice sir" < 1355968431 559184 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :but have you considered expanding your knowledge to "symmetric lenses" < 1355968439 896014 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(g a -> f b) -> g s -> f t < 1355968450 342454 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about colenses < 1355968454 483497 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hear it's useful to use 4 functors instead of just 2!!!! < 1355968461 249452 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: colenses are a special kind of symmetric lenses < 1355968469 281588 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: if by useful you mean "the devil" < 1355968476 213415 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::0 < 1355968481 826103 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :only crazy people use 4 functors < 1355968526 54831 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: Anyway, I'm trying to work out what class I need to be isomorphic to ((a -> b) -> s -> t, b -> t) < 1355968548 719400 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems like Functor g => (g a -> b) -> g s -> t is pretty close. < 1355968554 187914 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But Functor isn't strong enough, I think? < 1355968595 241254 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't figure it out. :-( < 1355968597 491464 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet it exists. < 1355968653 711698 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott says that (Functor g => (g a -> b) -> g s -> t) ~ ((s -> a) -> b) -> t < 1355968683 320064 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that so :0 < 1355968695 618804 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: what does that type even mean < 1355968711 921326 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :((s -> a) -> b) -> t < 1355968718 413396 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes that type < 1355968720 768764 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does it mean < 1355968801 223439 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd help if i could remember what s a b t mean......i dont have enough experience to have memorized them and im sad that the type signatures for these new lenses arent cool enough to express the relationships between them!! < 1355968834 420770 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: uh we could express the relationships between them if haskell was cool enough to have type lambdas < 1355968844 74611 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if they were just synonyms not "real lambdas" < 1355968852 922587 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"guess what haskell doesn't have" < 1355968860 701234 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"not cool enough to have" < 1355968869 429986 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: btw a and b are the same as in traverse < 1355968876 128572 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a radical suggestion: identifiers longer than one character < 1355968877 8426 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :traverse :: (a -> f b) -> [a] -> f [b] < 1355968886 160273 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I tried. edwardk vetoed it. < 1355968906 823682 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: s stands for "structure" or "source" or "state" < 1355968912 905460 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :t stands for "the letter after s" < 1355968915 65534 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or "target") < 1355968919 240762 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1355968932 482095 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: s t a b isn't that bad. < 1355968934 421758 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i personally would have used a' instead of b.....and s' instead of t...........that makes it a bit clearer.......................... < 1355968951 24436 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fa fb a b < 1355968951 344453 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a -> a') -> s -> s'????? < 1355968952 942475 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is the _real_ reason unicode support is important < 1355968954 300701 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are you crazy < 1355968958 699580 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1355968960 682879 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't make do with only 26 letters < 1355968960 994189 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :s and § < 1355968968 210073 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :t and ⊤ < 1355968969 459786 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :s -> ß < 1355968971 722966 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fa and fb are cool too < 1355968981 419684 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fi -> fa -> fo -> fum < 1355968986 559038 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: but what about (Char -> Char) -> Text -> Text < 1355968993 298656 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(thumbs up) < 1355969003 606388 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: what about < 1355969032 894734 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I’d be fine with “fa”, “fb” mnemonics even with things like Text. < 1355969033 318565 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :type Lens i o = forall f a b. (i a -> f (i b)) -> o a -> f (o b) < 1355969047 727017 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: "btw that totally works in haskell with LiberalTypeSynonyms" < 1355969056 115478 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"because theyd get expanded at use site" < 1355969075 795476 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"if haskell had anonymous type synonyms this would work ''everywhere''" < 1355969106 722754 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a -> 𝖺) -> s -> 𝗌 < 1355969126 147794 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ion: thanks for using non-BMP codepoints < 1355969132 121622 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stupid screen. :-( < 1355969163 248239 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: putStrLn "(a -> \120250) -> s -> \120268" < 1355969180 886956 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :MATHEMATICAL SANS-SERIF SMALL LATIN LETTER A < 1355969183 817997 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or something. < 1355969187 207690 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I already looked it up. < 1355969188 917938 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh < 1355969234 692259 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: have you considered using four functors......PLUS a functor transformer......... < 1355969245 854530 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ive never considered it but elliott sure did < 1355969250 186119 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean < 1355969252 252397 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :using four functors < 1355969258 367549 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure if elliott's considered the transformers < 1355969262 477877 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott is using a functor transformer too < 1355969266 830479 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :: ) < 1355969278 465586 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :also elliott considered making jokes about five functors < 1355969280 754452 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :we all did < 1355969295 563860 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is he using five functors yet < 1355969299 220870 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"i dont care if you have to cram the fifth functor in there perpendicular to the other four" < 1355969338 848397 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: btw maybe you need four functor transformers < 1355969344 138799 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::0 < 1355969351 448427 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(g a -> f b) -> i s -> h t < 1355969358 545853 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott said 4 functors would be nice for indexed types!!!or something like that....is this true < 1355969374 893018 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(t1 g a -> t2 f b) -> tt3 i s -> t4 h t < 1355969383 203123 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"sorry edwardk i ran out of letters" < 1355969388 397254 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :also s/tt/t/ < 1355969396 226804 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: do you mean indexed lenses.......... < 1355969408 495017 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1355969413 783139 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :all i remember is "indexed" < 1355969420 773648 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :indexedfoo: < 1355969427 82287 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i -> a -> f b) -> s -> f t < 1355969446 848229 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :you would think you can pick g = (i,) < 1355969460 229124 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then you get ((i,a) -> f b) -> (i,s) -> f t < 1355969464 9116 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"which makes no sense??" < 1355969469 902398 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you need three functors < 1355969473 963520 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if three why not four < 1355969482 651236 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not......... < 1355969511 552990 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :or eight............ < 1355969518 124365 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even infinity functors < 1355969528 408444 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :infinity functors is going too far < 1355969544 109031 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: don't worry < 1355969550 148314 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :countable infinity functors < 1355969558 808738 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :just א0 < 1355969600 898510 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's aleph0 too many < 1355969644 25405 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: ok just two functors < 1355969664 688769 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :type Iso s t a b = (Functor f, Functor g) => (g a -> f b) -> g s -> f t < 1355969671 468928 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"isn't that a beautiful type" < 1355969691 830994 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :guys < 1355969693 888664 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about < 1355969696 516320 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no functors at all < 1355969707 383409 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover...... < 1355969711 833942 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need at least one functor................. < 1355969716 756787 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need to learn about the true spirit of lenses < 1355969718 369927 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but do yo < 1355969721 119212 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :u < 1355969737 936028 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: um yes < 1355969748 631703 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: but that functor can be Identity if you like < 1355969760 286915 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're just a shill for Big Cata < 1355969761 906109 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if i want it to be Const r < 1355969772 915879 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :can it be Const r < 1355969813 225885 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: omg what about < 1355969826 233083 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Proxy a -> Const r b) -> Proxy s -> Const r t < 1355970271 679422 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4d0b6008.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you know water has about 40 unexplained anomalies? it's the source of all life.. and maybe more. interesting documentation -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SppiDB-hmzY < 1355970473 581366 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aY7XH2ulTEU < 1355970512 756982 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc what does this even have to do with water, it's about calcium < 1355970514 92398 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a tragedy when all the look around you videos got taken down < 1355970527 204282 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike, calcium is a crucial component of water < 1355970546 859666 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's been a while since my o-levels but i distinctly remember water being made of ghosts? < 1355970563 949863 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you do o-levels in luxembourg < 1355970596 297050 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i lived at the luxembourgish military base in cornwall when i was a teen < 1355970603 725013 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4d0b6008.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :bike: maybe it really is < 1355970616 177335 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bike i believe you may be `shitting me' < 1355970617 485268 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed hagbard < 1355970632 90398 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: “shitting” “me” < 1355970669 347158 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was tipped off to your clever deception by the fact that nobody would want to have a base in cornwall < 1355970709 590066 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it's the only place the queen would allow it < 1355970718 523908 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, luxembourg, not exactly a world military power < 1355970740 684693 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but treaties have to be respected, even if they were signed in the 1300s by specially trained goats. < 1355970755 392236 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice try, but it would still be a diplomatic disaster if you forced anyone to be in cornwall < 1355970797 140881 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, i think we seceded once or twice < 1355970822 226262 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it didn't really succeed because nobody believed we were there anyway, for the reasons you bring up < 1355970830 613746 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :being a luxembourgish military brat is a sad lifestyle :( < 1355970856 787884 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :still, at least the other kids couldn't make fun of you for your nationality < 1355970903 473030 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :they tried to call me names but they couldn't think of any good ones < 1355970912 341183 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :eventually they settled on "luxxy" but i don't think their hearts were in it. < 1355970947 178964 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the only stereotypes of luxxys is that they're all really just corporations dodging tax < 1355970954 345833 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4d0b6008.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems like your muse returns finally < 1355970962 96633 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whose muse < 1355970964 191768 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :who's the muse < 1355970982 314525 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4d0b6008.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :bikes muse ..sorry hoover < 1355970998 518005 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, uh. i mean, i may have been in england slightly for tax reasons. a little. < 1355971009 405674 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoah, underlining?? < 1355971027 765662 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a lux special < 1355971070 317486 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :still more of a real country than liechtenstein < 1355971093 373721 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which was a scheme by some austrians to get extra votes in the holy roman imperial reichstag < 1355971107 108119 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least liechtenstein has that whole last place to give women the vote thing < 1355971118 70815 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a whole two stereotypes < 1355971121 294855 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's kind of the multiocular O of countries, if you will < 1355971132 104976 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: last place in the EU, or what? < 1355971146 941976 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote it's kind of the multiocular O of countries, if you will < 1355971148 850889 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought the last place was like, switzerland... oh right they're not in the EU < 1355971151 390475 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :876) it's kind of the multiocular O of countries, if you will < 1355971151 764127 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :last place in the eu < 1355971161 594653 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe in europe in general < 1355971167 132730 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :On 1 July 1984, Liechtenstein became the last country in Europe to grant women the right to vote. The referendum on women's suffrage, in which only men were allowed to participate, passed with 51.3% in favor.[20] < 1355971176 163025 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess it's because who the fuck cares if they have the vote in liechtenstein < 1355971192 840844 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :switzerland did not have universal women's suffrage at the canton level until 1990 < 1355971196 513100 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah hang on, i thought liechtenstein was a monarchy < 1355971207 760988 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :constitutional monarchy < 1355971214 329694 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :boring < 1355971228 936810 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :san marino was doing that before it was cool and look where they are now! < 1355971246 499595 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :rich as fuck? < 1355971267 748489 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn straight < 1355971376 199272 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about sealand < 1355971408 818091 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the EU used to be about just coal and steel < 1355971427 843656 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: what about it < 1355971444 253720 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything < 1355971453 26603 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't take long to go over it all < 1355971464 407132 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :place had what, one revolution? < 1355971474 636575 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and even that didn't last < 1355971612 617644 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about bir tawil < 1355971642 860076 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :camels < 1355971674 786558 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about #esoteric < 1355971705 279182 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the closest thing we've had to a revolution was when lament got pissed < 1355971735 194427 :sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been in an IRC channel that had a revolution < 1355971748 178298 :sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everyone got pissed at the channel owner, and fled to a different network < 1355971849 668370 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :was it #clojure < 1355971861 15969 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :was it #jesus < 1355971865 875349 :c00kiemon5ter!~c00kiemon@foss-aueb/coder/c00kiemon5ter PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it was a revolution they would have taken over the channel, not move to another < 1355971886 787591 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4d0b6008.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i agree with that c00kiemon5ter < 1355972064 114074 :sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was #MSPA previously on Stardock now on SwiftIRC < 1355972064 271252 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1355972228 818347 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 JOIN :#esoteric < 1355972232 595982 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, I just realised exactly how arbitrary the assignment of north/south was. < 1355972266 735931 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1355972291 158006 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not arbitrary! < 1355972298 912783 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"north" is obviously "the cooler word" < 1355972305 372241 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i < 1355972314 369277 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :will defer to shachaf on this < 1355972325 422970 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can know where is north, where is east, etc, by the direction of spinning, isn't it? < 1355972330 342921 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1355972330 866980 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i was just going to say yeah magnets < 1355972346 911648 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :'north' actually derives from the word for 'down' < 1355972371 237613 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, i should say that next time the topic of lower egypt comes up. < 1355972382 799572 :augur!~augur@c-69-138-251-193.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1355972385 712790 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean the way north is considered the fundamental direction < 1355972409 290829 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not that arbitrary. Magnetic compasses, navigation by polaris, etc. < 1355972410 842490 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :90% of humans are in the northern hemisphere. < 1355972418 794390 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Therefore north is better. < 1355972419 598522 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :though a lot of the latter is due to the fact europeans live in the north. < 1355972439 916525 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, counterpoint: it's grim up north < 1355972447 191467 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: And how do you believe humans is better than the rest of the multiverse? < 1355972451 971275 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's pretty grim in the south too! < 1355972459 864928 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Um, I'm human. < 1355972464 49730 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"that should be enough" < 1355972471 779972 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Yes, but I do not think that should be enough. < 1355972482 572258 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's weird hanging around people for whom the northernmost point in the world is nottingham < 1355972484 276936 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are Rosencrantz and Guildenstern! < 1355972486 639451 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is enough. < 1355972563 438179 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1355972580 440773 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I thought the north/south/east/west is according to the rotation of a sphere? < 1355972595 457211 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not historically. < 1355972623 939584 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want to look at the terms and their usage you'd have to go to the people who actually needed to give a damn, i.e., cartographers and ship navigators. < 1355972628 272792 :augur_!~augur@c-69-138-251-193.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1355972639 985240 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps, but now we can change it, just as we can do with the other units of measurement. < 1355972645 926117 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4d0b6008.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :originally it was the movement of the sun along the sky. < 1355972679 923731 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, phantom_hoover was talking about "how arbitrary [it] was" < 1355972698 747944 :augur!~augur@c-69-138-251-193.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1355972700 241623 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, more relevant to blather about shipping than to blather about lojban < 1355972734 124213 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4d0b6008.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can imagine that north comes from down, as long as there is no real up and down.. < 1355972752 902402 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4d0b6008.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there is east and west < 1355972753 58867 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Down is the direction of the gravitational force. < 1355972766 251686 :c00kiemon5ter!~c00kiemon@foss-aueb/coder/c00kiemon5ter PRIVMSG #esoteric :so up is down too < 1355972767 999017 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the true nature of the west < 1355972784 824356 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4d0b6008.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the sun goes down there < 1355972787 41155 :c00kiemon5ter!~c00kiemon@foss-aueb/coder/c00kiemon5ter PRIVMSG #esoteric :west is where the sun sets < 1355972794 841691 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank you for your explanation, compatriots < 1355972816 157930 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4d0b6008.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're welcome < 1355972928 964289 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zero longitude is also arbitrary but they chose one point, and now according to astronomy it is even if the continents move, according to rotation of the Earth you know exactly which one it is anyways. < 1355973012 873232 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, at least with ecliptic longitude, that is different from geographic longitude, so ecliptic has an intersection point with the equator do define the zero point. < 1355973148 315451 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :How they should define the geographic zero longitude today should be, according to the hour angle of the sun is _____ at J2000, for example. < 1355973170 267833 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not very constant. < 1355973209 668986 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4d0b6008.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it changes due to the precession isn't it? < 1355973220 63084 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4d0b6008.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :every 26k years < 1355973249 703657 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4d0b6008.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :aquarius! < 1355973351 528926 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes the equinox point changes due to precession, but that depend if you use the equinox of current date, or of reference date. If that is what you mean. < 1355973428 842533 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4d0b6008.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :aw i actually wanted to figure out what you mean.. but yes < 1355973468 784780 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Sanskrit word for the amount of precession is "ayanamsha". You say it is Aquarius; well, you may have heard of the "Age of Aquarius", but really the definition of the astrological age is not agreed on; either it is [1] the negatave ayanamsha, or [2] the constellation of vernal equinox point. But in case [1] you still need a reference date! < 1355973575 299994 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4d0b6008.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well how can be there one word for the absolute amount of precession? < 1355973593 622468 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You still need a reference date. < 1355973620 217660 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4d0b6008.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes.. i thought that's what you mean by j2000 < 1355973626 163411 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4d0b6008.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i must have been wrong < 1355973685 316838 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :J2000 is the reference date. < 1355973713 688520 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least, J2000 is reference date most commonly used in astronomy today. < 1355973727 223631 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4d0b6008.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :great < 1355973828 322330 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4d0b6008.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i remember you've been working on some kind of astronomy program.. didn't you? have you deployed it zzo38? < 1355973839 882590 :augur!~augur@c-69-138-251-193.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1355973840 209832 :augur_!~augur@c-69-138-251-193.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1355973871 34192 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I have not even written it, I don't have the library and program and stuff to write it. < 1355973932 333745 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4d0b6008.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :a pity.. how is that? < 1355973955 399912 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried to find it, ask someone, but I cannot find anything sufficient which is what I am trying to make. < 1355973962 271988 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"now according to astronomy it is even if the continents move" <--- well, you still need to agree on what the shape of the earth is, and there are various competing models of that < 1355974058 495754 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4d0b6008.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm right!.. not obvious but actually true < 1355974067 683677 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: O, well, at least you can try... I made a slight mistake. < 1355974100 502039 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/gxRap.jpg?1 < 1355974128 611068 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow. < 1355974182 223196 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"C++ makes it easier, I guess, to do things right" this is rather more unprofessional than i would expect from a modern programming textbook shachaf! < 1355974193 680497 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not a textbook. < 1355974195 592666 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is not a date on this quotation? < 1355974198 734079 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4d0b6008.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that kind of a historical source? it belongs to museum < 1355974207 1282 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: http://imgur.com/a/Nbp70#0 < 1355974238 534114 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4d0b6008.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :1993..okay < 1355974265 647194 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty intense < 1355974272 705937 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4d0b6008.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it might not be influenced by precession < 1355974283 622797 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how the headline says "Objects: A silver bullet?" and then when you read the text it says "This object-oriented approach is not a silver bullet" < 1355974295 787857 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like the usual headline rule, i suppose < 1355974301 168635 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep. < 1355974312 885143 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :except conveniently located all on the same page! < 1355974320 97879 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://cdn2.damnfunnypictures.com/qwsk5cy-WasDarwinWrong001.jpg < 1355974328 273698 :carado!~user4539@2a01:e35:8b61:e430:6ef0:49ff:fe73:1fd0 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1355974339 80580 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to admire their commitment to negativity though, kmc. < 1355974346 810665 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :they used a whole third of a page! < 1355974366 307609 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :«"We see virtually all C development moving to C++ over the next two to three years." -- Bill Gates» < 1355974383 843685 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess they managed that by getting rid of their C compiler and using a C++ compiler for C code. < 1355974390 419846 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :«Fuck you, I saved like a million lives» -- Bill Gates < 1355974391 933745 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Darwin may have been wrong about a few things. < 1355974401 494226 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :now that's innovation! -- shachaf < 1355974420 300559 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :he was certainly in the dark on many things, like the biochemical basis of heritable traits < 1355974448 841380 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4d0b6008.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38 it's not that we know about the evolutionary processes for sure.. but all in all he was right yes < 1355974448 920331 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :darwin's theory on heritable traits was great though. little invisible things of sand < 1355974460 443003 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But on the other hand he had a pretty good barnacle collection. < 1355974473 545442 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably better than Bike's barnacle collection. < 1355974489 506743 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is :( < 1355974491 408660 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :hadb4rd: It is what I mean, he may be correct in general but wrong in some details. < 1355974513 808377 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :his worm collection is also to be envied < 1355974566 354607 :augur!~augur@c-69-138-251-193.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1355974603 996337 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.npr.org/blogs/krulwich/2012/10/18/163181524/charles-darwin-and-the-terrible-horrible-no-good-very-bad-day < 1355974657 241109 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like the art < 1355974658 771202 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :> has (_at 'a') $ M.fromList [('a',1),('b',2)] < 1355974661 4839 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : False < 1355974662 180131 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :> hasn't (_at 'a') $ M.fromList [('a',1),('b',2)] < 1355974664 302019 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : True < 1355974668 690877 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er... < 1355974691 880175 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :> M.fromList [('a',1),('b',2)] ^.. _at 'a' < 1355974693 976020 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [1] < 1355974694 382091 :augur!~augur@c-69-138-251-193.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1355974699 136669 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@undefine < 1355974709 232553 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :status: finnish national anthem stuck in head < 1355974720 124573 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :> has (_at 'a') $ M.fromList [('a',1),('b',2)] < 1355974722 478267 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : True < 1355974726 990601 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: The Finnish one or the Swedish one? < 1355974738 94192 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :> hasn't (_at 'a') $ M.fromList [('a',1),('b',2)] < 1355974740 369761 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : False < 1355974741 422642 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :just the tune since i don't know either language < 1355974754 276112 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it was two different tunes. < 1355974773 340732 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could be wrong. :-( I should probably know that... < 1355974878 483353 :sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, monqy Fiora < 1355975006 955519 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure < 1355975093 165305 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :solanum tuberosum < 1355976023 411199 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Man arrested after smoking, drinking in ATM" < 1355976749 904178 :augur!~augur@c-69-138-251-193.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1355976843 545136 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: OK, just watched stargate continuum. now THAT was a stargate movie < 1355977041 12527 :Nisstyre!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre JOIN :#esoteric < 1355977046 885383 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was a good'n. < 1355978019 549144 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Quit: The struct held his beloved integer in his strong, protecting arms, his eyes like sapphire orbs staring into her own. "W-will you... Will you union me?" < 1355978195 109737 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :CsoundMML is now made. < 1355978199 203847 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-54f97e-153.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1355978369 650434 :sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :of time? < 1355978435 838744 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What time? < 1355978699 304776 :sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, bad joke based on Homestuck < 1355978710 107005 :sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(There's a character who can be referred to as the "Maid of Time") < 1355979000 423109 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1355979030 416749 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-54f97e-153.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1355980880 292454 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1355983183 748511 :myndzi!myndzi@2600:3c01::f03c:91ff:fedf:3d4e JOIN :#esoteric < 1355983232 449049 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : < 1355983787 791597 :augur!~augur@c-98-218-127-183.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1355985458 973290 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@fluttershy.pl QUIT :Excess Flood < 1355985672 124065 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@fluttershy.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1355986302 688039 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have corrected a few defects in CsoundMML, and have added an example of "Sakura Sakura", played using plucked strings (the "wgpluck" opcode). < 1355987690 634625 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What color of decorations did you use for Christmas decoration today? < 1355988835 439760 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: hi < 1355988842 460451 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: did you see my semisymmetric lenses < 1355989503 560637 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::o < 1355989538 349636 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@djinn ((a -> b) -> s -> t) -> (Identity a -> b) -> Identity s -> t < 1355989539 101099 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :f a b c = < 1355989539 306488 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : case c of < 1355989539 390601 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Identity d -> a (\ e -> b (Identity e)) d < 1355990157 297379 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: are they good < 1355990178 115340 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: so good :') < 1355990248 515293 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :o. good. < 1355990837 702969 :augur!~augur@c-98-218-127-183.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1355991362 126133 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1355991645 820911 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@188.134.41.172 JOIN :#esoteric < 1355992227 596098 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1355992501 855545 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@188.134.41.172 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1355993293 305601 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1355995411 824958 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1355995438 53605 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1355995444 919406 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1355995585 231289 :Nisstyre!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1355995884 725154 :Nisstyre-laptop!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1355996802 848464 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@host-224-58.dataart.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1355997125 727179 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1355997133 354138 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1355997144 760196 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4d0b6008.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1355997182 425852 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be QUIT :Client Quit < 1355997193 527229 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1355997229 423233 :MDue!~fyrc@c-174-54-84-173.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1355997351 434538 :keb_!~keb@c-71-59-209-166.hsd1.or.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1355997461 550337 :asiekierka_!~asiekierk@fluttershy.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1355997572 121889 :Lumpio_!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1355997609 547693 :pumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1355997776 966915 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@host-224-58.dataart.net QUIT :*.net *.split < 1355997779 328611 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@fluttershy.pl QUIT :*.net *.split < 1355997780 542502 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1355997781 147093 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :*.net *.split < 1355997781 297663 :keb!~keb@c-71-59-209-166.hsd1.or.comcast.net QUIT :*.net *.split < 1355997781 886383 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-54-84-173.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :*.net *.split < 1355997782 163276 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi QUIT :*.net *.split < 1355997783 170185 :lightquake!lightquake@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fe93:ec71 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1355997784 247425 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi QUIT :*.net *.split < 1355997785 953856 :pumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin NICK :copumpkin < 1355998219 542960 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1355999188 189299 :carado!~user4539@2a01:e35:8b61:e430:6ef0:49ff:fe73:1fd0 JOIN :#esoteric < 1355999346 102561 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1355999347 489102 :iamcal_!uid1110@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bqngvlyzwizmwgcs QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1355999390 664776 :asiekierka_!~asiekierk@fluttershy.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1355999396 7926 :elliott_!elliott@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:9fdd JOIN :#esoteric < 1355999417 719945 :elliott_!elliott@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:9fdd NICK :Guest9335 < 1355999442 273656 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=W4mwjdFf < 1355999473 911312 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@fluttershy.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1355999597 30968 :oklopol!~oklopol@agw-sparknet.utu.fi QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1355999672 47816 :oklopol!~oklopol@agw-sparknet.utu.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1356000888 672110 :jdiez!~42@178-33-162-138.kimsufi.com QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1356000895 318203 :jdiez_!~42@178-33-162-138.kimsufi.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1356001248 164798 :keb_!~keb@c-71-59-209-166.hsd1.or.comcast.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1356001754 614828 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest: I think your program involves undefined behaviour. :/ < 1356001779 525522 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1356001781 826245 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1356001786 860598 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :where exactly? < 1356001791 412852 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ISO/IEC 14882:2003 17.4.3.1.1p2 "A translation unit that includes a header shall not -- define macros for names lexically identical to keywords." < 1356001812 303795 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You include a header () and the token "const" is lexically identical to a keyword (const). < 1356001817 171130 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Undefined behaviour is behaviour that you get to define < 1356001825 902161 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :!!! < 1356001832 133508 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's fine as long as you don't use the keywords < 1356001838 385996 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not "fine". < 1356001841 696525 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is something a keyword if it's not used as one? < 1356001866 631398 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, that define is after the include < 1356001869 68195 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't say "but it's fine if you don't use the keywords" in the standard. < 1356001871 798680 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it will not affect the include < 1356001879 769287 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That also doesn't help. < 1356001903 520202 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION puts the handcuffs on AnotherTest < 1356001963 342448 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't limit the restriction like the C standard does. < 1356002008 136178 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://stackoverflow.com/questions/12286691/keywords-redefinition-in-c-c < 1356002018 975317 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :In C it's: "The program shall not have any macros with names lexically identical to keywords currently defined prior to the inclusion of the header or when any macro defined in the header is expanded." < 1356002052 128080 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, so they've made it even more impermissible in C++11? < 1356002082 892954 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems < 1356002108 320981 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just deny the standard and it's fien < 1356002111 447639 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :*fine < 1356002126 729037 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :It still /works/ < 1356002172 712702 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :g++ complains only if I use the keyword < 1356002219 368659 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is this allowed in C and not in C++ anyway? < 1356002233 384902 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :It appears that the C standard says: < 1356002238 978241 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :The above tokens (case sensitive) are reserved (in translation phases 7 and 8) for use as keywords, and shall not be used otherwise. < 1356002277 611171 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, in C++, keywords are always reserved (including in the preprocessing phase?) < 1356002335 423078 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :In C++11; in C++03 they're not reserved unless you include a header. < 1356002366 751656 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I don't have a new enough C++ compiler to compile the thing. :/ < 1356002381 597829 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did get a stack trace out of my clang though. < 1356002384 40525 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :FWIW. < 1356002384 626634 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Improving C++ programs by making it harder to write standards-conforming obfuscated C++. < 1356002384 909810 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I think you need at least gcc 4.7 < 1356002424 595843 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just -illegally- downloaded the C++11 standard < 1356002429 995788 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :I must see this for myself! < 1356002472 379089 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/GaAO -- not that I can be bothered to file a bug, I'm sure it's fixed already. < 1356002480 425662 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't see the point of not allowing this < 1356002503 18820 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1356002520 130945 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Standards-conforming C http://codepad.org/xVFNe2LP < 1356002556 178296 :Lumpio_!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi NICK :Lumpio- < 1356002776 149188 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep < 1356002778 722359 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's correct < 1356002781 711835 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Page 451 < 1356002783 386180 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :7 Identifiers that are keywords or operators in C++ shall not be defined as macros in C++ standard library < 1356002783 884610 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric : headers.176 < 1356002794 241809 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1356002800 528509 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the standard library < 1356002808 586936 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not writing the standard library < 1356002887 592859 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :I cannot find it anywhere else really < 1356002899 921697 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you check the paragraph mentioned in the SO question? < 1356002902 860903 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought they burned that page < 1356002906 825317 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is, 17.6.4.3.1 Macro names [macro.names]. < 1356003016 501813 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is the part about libraries < 1356003073 264613 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1356003081 2256 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 This section describes restrictions on C++ programs that use the facilities of the C++ standard library. < 1356003081 261415 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric : The following subclauses specify constraints on the program’s use of namespaces (17.6.4.2.1), its use of < 1356003081 548567 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric : various reserved names (17.6.4.3), its use of headers (17.6.4.4), its use of standard library classes as base < 1356003081 619935 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric : classes (17.6.4.5), its definitions of replacement functions (17.6.4.6), and its installation of handler functions < 1356003081 620108 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric : during execution (17.6.4.7). < 1356003123 801021 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :A translation unit shall not #define or #undef names lexically identical to keywords, to the identifiers listed < 1356003124 114484 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Table 3, or to the attribute-tokens described in 7.6. < 1356003143 210606 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :You cannot #undef them < 1356003156 889781 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would you want to if you can't #define them? < 1356003186 235201 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if your compiler implements them as macros < 1356003187 803465 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :!! < 1356003201 160557 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if they're not in a translation unit? < 1356003210 429475 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although guess that'd be impossible to achive < 1356003212 172719 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :*achieve < 1356003214 656707 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some of the "identifiers listed in Table 3" might be macros you'd want to #undef. < 1356003262 218860 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A translation unit that includes a standard library header shall not #define or #undef names declared in < 1356003262 580781 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :any standard library header." < 1356003273 295809 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did that so many times before < 1356003285 342867 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :like when you want to get rid of a C macro that wrecks your code < 1356003422 879212 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, the good news is "that use the facilities of the C++ standard library." < 1356003435 254212 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that means, if I don't use the standard library < 1356003438 343927 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't matter < 1356003442 816409 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's in that section < 1356003449 557949 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly what we need are hygienic C++ macros. < 1356003518 316994 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use Dettol after writing one < 1356003530 246638 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aha < 1356003532 151116 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION cannot decide whether "are" is correct in that sentence < 1356003548 224454 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :They definitely make a difference between either the C standard library < 1356003552 855666 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the C++ standard library < 1356003577 176099 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if I use C's IO facilities, it should be fine < 1356003622 724646 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The C++ standard library also makes available the facilities of the C standard library, suitably adjusted to < 1356003623 206570 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :ensure static type safety." So that's definitely not the same thing. < 1356003655 201628 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you can't use the C standard library in C++. You can only use the facilities of the C standard library. < 1356003672 320345 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :No you can < 1356003679 356025 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since you can include C code < 1356003682 682107 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it might just work < 1356003707 527899 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :For example, if I did #include "stdlib.h" < 1356003723 818012 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :extern "C++03" { < 1356003747 730367 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :extern "NonStandardC++" { < 1356003802 53295 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :the reality is, that there is probably no single compiler that's going to complain < 1356004085 59098 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell bike Hey San Marino is _so_ not a monarchy hth < 1356004085 371317 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1356004162 62624 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :If gcc works, it's fine < 1356004166 274749 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :who said that again < 1356004313 734195 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : Wow, I just realised exactly how arbitrary the assignment of north/south was. <-- did you know maps used to have east up < 1356004347 131510 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh he's not here either < 1356004366 390146 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ask Phantom_Hoover Wow, I just realised exactly how arbitrary the assignment of north/south was. <-- did you know maps used to have east up < 1356004366 653939 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1356004453 57436 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest: I think it was some early American president? < 1356004478 956655 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If gcc works, it's fine" -- James Buchanan < 1356004613 906966 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote it's weird hanging around people for whom the northernmost point in the world is nottingham < 1356004621 310005 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :877) it's weird hanging around people for whom the northernmost point in the world is nottingham < 1356004671 420458 :impomatic!~digital_w@144.48.113.87.dyn.plus.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1356004820 738241 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest: I deobfuscamated your code, incidentally. < 1356004999 678007 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I probably shouldn't spoil it, though.) < 1356005268 105541 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : status: finnish national anthem stuck in head <-- MOOOMMMY, I'VE GOT THE FINNISH NATIONAL ANTHEM STUCK IN MY HEAD < 1356005389 205349 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote oerjan < 1356005391 422230 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :6) what, you mean that wasn't your real name? Gosh, I guess it is. I never realized that. \ 16) oerjan: are you a man, if there weren't evil in this kingdom to you! you shall find bekkler! executing program. please let me go... put me out! he's really a tricycle! pass him! \ 19) In an alternate universe, ehird < 1356005611 100577 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-54f97e-153.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1356005976 198942 :iamcal_!uid1110@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xhjfjbkcrylpokxa JOIN :#esoteric < 1356006285 44320 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1356006384 443071 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-54f97e-153.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1356007616 397112 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1356007887 884204 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"1 jobs" -- Condor can't do plurals. < 1356007962 47180 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well apple also did the 1 jobs thing < 1356009539 30905 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1356009678 664095 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :sgeo: update < 1356010123 233696 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: PM me < 1356010130 14332 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the result) < 1356010140 143069 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and yes, it was probably not too hard) < 1356010344 773037 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fiora: Are you again awake or still awake? < 1356010391 859017 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :again awake, kinda. didn't sleep that well < 1356010412 639020 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Better than I did. < 1356010431 237663 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least I made semisymmetric lenses work! < 1356010470 552041 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: You must admit that the text was well chosen though. < 1356010516 485931 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :might see if I can sleep more later... < 1356010536 967222 :Taneb!d917e6fc@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.23.230.252 JOIN :#esoteric < 1356010665 326896 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 JOIN :#esoteric < 1356010832 458634 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@host-224-58.dataart.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1356010909 863894 :sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, Fiora didn't ping you so I will (not an update other than what Fiora said) < 1356010927 600609 :sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, you too < 1356010931 115223 :sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :See what Fiora said < 1356010950 366216 :Taneb!d917e6fc@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.23.230.252 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks < 1356010968 598976 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fiora was just invoking the sgeo update system. < 1356010968 940353 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. < 1356010987 306051 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: TIP: for decoding the hidden message, only look at alphanumeric characters < 1356011263 945603 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ROSE: Mom? ROXY: mom? < 1356011556 466225 :oklopol!~oklopol@agw-sparknet.utu.fi QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1356011721 85399 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :urk < 1356011732 233493 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :forgot about the damn morse code < 1356011943 794530 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can just copy paste it into a morse code converter < 1356011977 154856 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know but that's work and boring and complicated < 1356012371 384199 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone know here of software that automagically draws UML diagrams when given a C++ program? < 1356012374 19129 :sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a bookmarklet < 1356012397 810151 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/program/source < 1356012429 225642 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and preferably free < 1356012444 987524 :sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, http://morseless.me.uk/ < 1356012460 369642 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : i know but that's work and boring and complicated < 1356012462 591860 :sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/homestuck/comments/151prk/just_in_time_to_not_be_useful_my_attempt_at_a/ < 1356012470 529344 :sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's only work 1 time < 1356012474 568658 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, a bookmarklet! < 1356012490 367222 :sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use it then hover over the morse < 1356012771 904749 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is "dia" any good? < 1356013170 164522 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The diagramming tool? < 1356013179 766950 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's possible to use it, but it at least has been kinda horrible. < 1356013195 983948 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh okay < 1356013207 18762 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well I found this thing called "autodia" < 1356013211 708214 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.aarontrevena.co.uk/opensource/autodia/ < 1356013213 58033 :Taneb!d917e6fc@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.23.230.252 QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1356013224 889705 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :It claims to generate UML diagrams from C++ source code < 1356013305 920843 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I don't really feel like using this on a 25 000 line project, because I suspect that it might just erase the whole thing or something worse < 1356013507 799767 :Deewiant!~deewiant@deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No backups, no ability to take a temporary copy? < 1356013567 732516 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do have backups, but it still is annoying < 1356013585 173741 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I only backup like once a week < 1356013614 980751 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to try this on something else first < 1356013863 436097 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :this actually wokred < 1356013865 999366 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :*worked < 1356014045 941386 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it doesn't seem to work recursively < 1356014053 183500 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I can probably fix that by writing a script < 1356015045 751785 :GreyKnight!~GK@host86-128-248-114.range86-128.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1356015048 138188 :GreyKnight!~GK@host86-128-248-114.range86-128.btcentralplus.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote so up is down too < 1356015052 71580 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :878) so up is down too < 1356015166 875494 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :well this is taking a while. I guess Perl is fast enough < 1356015185 711594 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :*isn't < 1356015264 625211 :GreyKnight!~GK@host86-128-248-114.range86-128.btcentralplus.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION zaps Perl with a wand of speed monster < 1356015354 286656 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have maybe 25 files of about 1000 lines of code each here, and it's taking over 20 minutes already < 1356015379 246764 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, maybe not over 20 min, but definitely 20 min < 1356015410 664552 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :and my computer is making strange noises < 1356015472 901195 :GreyKnight!~GK@host86-128-248-114.range86-128.btcentralplus.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :how long are these lines, and are they written in mortal Perl or arcane "entire program on each line" format? < 1356015483 314834 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're written in C++ < 1356015490 468953 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :the program parsing them is Perl < 1356015507 896702 :GreyKnight!~GK@host86-128-248-114.range86-128.btcentralplus.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1356015524 435581 :GreyKnight!~GK@host86-128-248-114.range86-128.btcentralplus.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++... that explains it :o) < 1356015544 504511 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say about 35 characters per line < 1356015547 322317 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :(average) < 1356015549 99500 :GreyKnight!~GK@host86-128-248-114.range86-128.btcentralplus.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you have an infinite loop in templates ;-) < 1356015565 802344 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had that before < 1356015576 574609 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I'm not compiling at the moment < 1356015618 278440 :GreyKnight!~GK@host86-128-248-114.range86-128.btcentralplus.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, just parsing? < 1356015635 399007 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I'm trying to use "autodia" to generate a UML diagram of the code < 1356015738 728356 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I think that's just parsing < 1356015744 8609 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :and draw too ofcourse < 1356015758 962879 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :but since that's just writing XML, I doubt that's a big deal < 1356015779 135 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It hasn't started doing that too) < 1356015790 246157 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1356015806 746301 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1356015921 961434 :GreyKnight!~GK@host86-128-248-114.range86-128.btcentralplus.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm surely Perl should be really good at this, odd parsing behaviour of C++ nonwithstanding < 1356016046 631106 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1356016137 648544 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to abort this < 1356016148 55414 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's probably stuck in some loop or something < 1356016229 532911 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Use of uninitialized value $line in pattern match (m//) at /usr/share/perl5/Autodia/Handler/Cpp.pm line 334, line 95." < 1356016232 897543 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it was < 1356016257 434463 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :great so it doesn't work < 1356016358 406737 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :It works for 4 files, but not for 25 < 1356016421 188081 :Guest9335!elliott@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:9fdd NICK :elliott < 1356016431 277337 :elliott!elliott@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:9fdd QUIT :Quit: Reconnecting < 1356016440 38879 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1356016814 470268 :GreyKnight!~GK@host86-128-248-114.range86-128.btcentralplus.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ask oerjan "did you know maps used to have east up" You mean back in the dwarves' day?? < 1356016814 874349 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1356017910 442990 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1356018072 753489 :MDue!~fyrc@c-174-54-84-173.hsd1.pa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah, back in earlier versions of Minecraft, before Notch changed which direction of the world the sun rose on. < 1356018113 866770 :MDue!~fyrc@c-174-54-84-173.hsd1.pa.comcast.net NICK :MDude < 1356018217 7230 :GreyKnight!~GK@host86-128-248-114.range86-128.btcentralplus.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they just fixed the map surely? < 1356018224 172849 :GreyKnight!~GK@host86-128-248-114.range86-128.btcentralplus.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did find that amusing though < 1356018264 78248 :GreyKnight!~GK@host86-128-248-114.range86-128.btcentralplus.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Er guys the maps have east at the top..." "Oh... well, I can't be bothered fixing it, let's just claim the sun rises in the North." "Brilliant!" < 1356018657 308509 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1356018734 243804 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the sun rises in the east, by definition < 1356018741 346602 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's actually how "east" is defined on arbitrary planets < 1356018859 231525 :sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how would East be defined on a large space station meant for long-term habitation < 1356018865 102220 :sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like those O'Neill Cylinder things? < 1356018884 839283 :GreyKnight!~GK@host86-128-248-114.range86-128.btcentralplus.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends if Mojang are in charge or not :v < 1356018909 264236 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sgeo: that's not a planet, I'm not sure it has an east < 1356018928 853671 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Pluto is not a planet, but it has an east < 1356018935 737929 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1356018942 692537 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess if the space station rotates < 1356018945 352162 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has an east < 1356018948 879183 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does < 1356018977 63245 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it depends of course what you mean with rotate < 1356018986 136576 :Taneb!~nathan@host-2-99-82-172.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1356018994 787936 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :You probably meant around itself < 1356019005 59910 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that case, I'm not entirely sure < 1356019027 245929 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think what I mean is that it doesn't constantly have the same side facing the sun < 1356019046 471501 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, then rotation around the earth is good < 1356019449 507769 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-54-84-173.hsd1.pa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about on a planet that always has the same side facing the sun, like Uranus? < 1356019490 748152 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :MDude: I don't think it has compass directions < 1356019495 666480 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it doesn't have poles either < 1356019499 457445 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and probably doesn't have a magnetic field < 1356019507 726112 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :The space station doesn't have poles either? < 1356019525 323307 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it rotates, it at least has geographical poles < 1356019550 226253 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uranus does rotate < 1356019608 114650 :GreyKnight!~GK@host86-128-248-114.range86-128.btcentralplus.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :just wonky :-U < 1356019626 101083 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-54-84-173.hsd1.pa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It rotates on an axis at a near-perpindicular angle to the plane that it orbits on. < 1356019642 379383 :GreyKnight!~GK@host86-128-248-114.range86-128.btcentralplus.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :just to confuse everybody < 1356019649 938155 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :a year just takes 84323326 days < 1356019659 861154 :GreyKnight!~GK@host86-128-248-114.range86-128.btcentralplus.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mercury is tidally locked, isn't it? < 1356019667 803348 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-54-84-173.hsd1.pa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I guess since it's not exactly at 90 degrees, there might be some space at the equator where there's some day/night. < 1356019738 544394 :GreyKnight!~GK@host86-128-248-114.range86-128.btcentralplus.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, no, it's at 3:2 resonance < 1356019738 935399 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :From wikipedia: East is the direction toward which the Earth rotates about its axis, and therefore the general direction from which the Sun appears to rise. < 1356019748 836068 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think there is east on other planets < 1356019768 663753 :GreyKnight!~GK@host86-128-248-114.range86-128.btcentralplus.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(so it has three days for every two years) < 1356019772 406514 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you can replace earth with something else there < 1356019802 494774 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly QUIT :Excess Flood < 1356019813 103103 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :The word east is derived from the Proto-Germanic *aus-to- or *austra- "east, toward the sunrise", from PIE *aus- "to shine," or "dawn". < 1356019862 175664 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly JOIN :#esoteric < 1356020237 614734 :sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1356020243 811727 :sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love "He Has No Face" < 1356020247 969948 :sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just found a review of it < 1356020256 253050 :sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Another track nicely written but not as remarkable as other works by Skaven." < 1356020474 612751 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1356020493 939851 :GreyKnight!~GK@host86-128-248-114.range86-128.btcentralplus.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1356020645 812428 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1356020738 435834 :sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :VLC is all Christmasy < 1356021138 149429 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I noticed that too < 1356021365 978671 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-202-11.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1356021369 829733 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-54-84-173.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: later chat < 1356021808 531024 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1356021851 204568 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1356021881 180438 :lightquake!lightquake@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fe93:ec71 JOIN :#esoteric < 1356022068 568765 :Taneb!~nathan@host-2-99-82-172.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1356022091 199913 :Taneb!~nathan@host-2-99-82-172.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rosalind.info is kinda like Project Euler but with genetics instead of maths < 1356022372 367268 :jdiez_!~42@178-33-162-138.kimsufi.com NICK :jdiez < 1356022480 775675 :Taneb!~nathan@host-2-99-82-172.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1356023061 722544 :sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know a movie's bad when Wikipedia's plot summary has a sentence beginning with "Eventually, and inexplicably," < 1356023080 567047 :sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snakes_on_a_Train < 1356023126 45310 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1356023141 652519 :sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, Snakes on a train! < 1356023147 652586 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1356023158 597999 :sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/snakes_on_a_train/ < 1356023188 60892 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :was a tossup between asylum and sequel < 1356023214 371148 :sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asylum < 1356023234 268658 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Eventually, and inexplicably, she herself transforms into a gigantic snake and swallows the moving train whole. Six passengers managed to escape unharmed and one of them performs magic to make her vanish." < 1356023239 417239 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(spoiler alert) < 1356023258 994137 :sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which I hadn't heard of until someone in another channel started talking about Megafault < 1356023308 195877 :sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A movie in which people manage to outrun an earthquake. < 1356023336 872340 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to see Asylum's sherlock < 1356023369 76695 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember half-watching a disaster movie where the heroes stop a tsunami by setting off a bomb and creating another, equally big tsunami going the other direction. < 1356023397 536889 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/ab/Sherlock_holmes_by_asylum_film_poster.jpg < 1356023430 26493 :sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, Megafault they do something similar but with earthquakes, I think < 1356023445 785554 :sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Justin yells at the driver to stop the truck. The driver replies, No way! Theres an earthquake on our tail! ' < 1356023459 161357 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :are these syfy original movies? they are known for crap like that < 1356023487 265792 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sgeo, i want to see a volcano movie where they do thaty < 1356023488 595283 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*that < 1356023501 412072 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :beendun < 1356023591 292668 :GreyKnight!~GK@host86-128-248-114.range86-128.btcentralplus.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :This monkey will swiftly scamper to safety: http://pbfcomics.com/135/ < 1356023673 777811 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: that doesn't work in practice, two tsunamis can pass through each other < 1356023688 281516 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 do you not think i know how waves work < 1356023700 430255 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know < 1356023714 545604 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you get a lot of waves in Hexham? < 1356023718 718140 :GreyKnight!~GK@host86-128-248-114.range86-128.btcentralplus.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What would a hoover know about waves < 1356023799 116419 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-36-82.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1356023807 590455 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you get a lot of waves in birmingham? < 1356024017 289092 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: hmm, not many < 1356024019 878710 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you get them in the canals < 1356024023 407172 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :gravity waves < 1356024035 502425 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :waves goodbye < 1356024101 970658 :GreyKnight!~GK@host86-128-248-114.range86-128.btcentralplus.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :/me failure < 1356024312 502306 :GreyKnight!~GK@host86-128-248-114.range86-128.btcentralplus.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell zzo38 It turns out there was some caching going on when I connected to the Internet via my phone (connecting via another Internet connection solved the "can't root page" problem) < 1356024312 735335 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1356025249 980557 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-51-132.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1356025250 90085 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-51-132.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1356025250 90249 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1356025556 765796 :GreyKnight!~GK@host86-128-248-114.range86-128.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1356025617 914131 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1356026315 942580 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:14:42: it seems < 1356026316 54038 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:15:08: I just deny the standard and it's fien < 1356026316 54215 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:15:11: *fine < 1356026316 54322 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:15:26: It still /works/ < 1356026331 679446 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest: then it's not a C++ program < 1356026344 447376 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you don't know it'll work on any compiler or compiler version or machine except the exact one you're using < 1356026406 392779 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@host-224-58.dataart.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1356027170 633152 :sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1356027172 63452 :sgeo_!~sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1356027292 902763 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1356027665 440661 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1356027700 969804 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1356027716 750602 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It probably will. Compilers actually don't check whether or not you're using the standard library facilities. (Defining keywords as macro names is allowed in that case). < 1356027739 993139 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest: "compilers actually don't" -- you have no idea how an arbitrary compiler behaves < 1356027766 608344 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you mean "I can't think of a compiler that does", or "I would never write a compiler that does", or "I assume nobody would ever write a compiler that does", but those are all totally different < 1356027767 788585 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Well, I do, and preprocessing and compiling are often not connected < 1356027777 405952 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if you make any assumptions about arbitrary compiler writers then you haven't seen enough fucked up ones yet < 1356027805 63390 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a pity the DS9K doesn't actually exist < 1356027810 319209 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then we could use it as an example < 1356027814 811195 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, we use it as an example anyway, but…) < 1356027828 187028 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: and if I had to pick, I'd be the latter of your options < 1356027875 40291 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: there are enough systems that loosely approximate various aspects of DS9Ks < 1356027882 573149 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1356027890 607567 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :remember, if gcc works, it's fine (someone, possibly some former president) < 1356027896 315875 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway the easiest thing is to let AnotherTest get bitten by an assumption of sanity on a system's part < 1356027903 773826 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's DS9K? < 1356027909 719129 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest: you should see the gcc bugs. < 1356027923 76495 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No thanks, I don't have the time for that < 1356027933 356539 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest: or the two very popular desktop computer operating systems whose main compiler is not gcc-based < 1356027934 440696 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: a hypothetical platform (architecture + toolchain) that's as insane as possible while still complying with the letter of all relevant standards < 1356027939 127374 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(OS X and Windows; the former even a UNIX) < 1356027958 790246 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the main compiler on OS X nowadays? clang? < 1356027960 996871 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I've been wanting something like that too, didn't know it already had a name < 1356027963 435917 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes < 1356027963 827084 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it /used/ to be gcc, IIRC < 1356027972 932437 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: clang works too! < 1356027974 670647 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :apple dropped gcc because of gpl v3 iirc < 1356027975 868084 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: the name is "deathstation 9000", "ds9k" is just the usual abbreviation < 1356027988 612850 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yep, I remember something about that < 1356027990 855626 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest: sorry -- you mean clang v[full version number] on [my architecture] and [my OS] with [my system header files] and [...] < 1356028006 672109 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is absolutely no guarantee that clang will decide to keep this working in the future < 1356028009 773232 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I didn't use clang myself. < 1356028024 191336 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want to depend on it then you want some kind of statement of support < 1356028028 519270 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance, a standard < 1356028036 859416 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that compilers are terribly great at following the C or C++ standards < 1356028040 476433 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: What I did is also not considered undefined behavior. What I did is simply not allowed according to the strict standard. < 1356028045 528716 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But clang has partial GNU mode, isn't it? < 1356028045 923163 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. < 1356028048 439810 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but when they don't it is something you can, you know, actually report as a bug < 1356028052 50872 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :?messages < 1356028052 175312 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreyKnight said 1h 2m 20s ago: It turns out there was some caching going on when I connected to the Internet via my phone (connecting via another Internet connection solved the "can't root page" < 1356028052 505286 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :problem) < 1356028090 211650 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: So my operating system and system header files don't actually matter. < 1356028114 166521 :ChanServ!ChanServ@services. QUIT :*.net *.split < 1356028130 96036 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, my architecture will also not matter < 1356028149 676504 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :18:27:20 elliott: What I did is also not considered undefined behavior. What I did is simply not allowed according to the strict standard. < 1356028159 599227 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find this a bit unlikely < 1356028166 668731 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look it up in the standard < 1356028166 824267 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :almost everything you're not allowed to do in C is UB, for instance < 1356028182 252861 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see why you bring it up anyway, since this strengthens my position and weakens yours < 1356028193 69507 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no, you *don't know* your architecture will not matter < 1356028198 688352 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :all you are making is baseless assumptions < 1356028226 539095 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do, because CPP is going to behave the same regardless of any supported architecture for all defined behavior < 1356028258 300258 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1356028265 420252 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not defined behaviour if your program is simply invalid < 1356028280 871791 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest: huh? there are incompatibilities between CPPs on even basic stuff < 1356028292 262295 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps the best known example is " #include " with the leading whitespace < 1356028303 457059 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes, but what is defined will work < 1356028309 866157 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those are simply extensions < 1356028314 41656 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest: even if it's defined to not work? < 1356028318 478187 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :they do not change the behavior of something that has been defined < 1356028320 979467 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dude < 1356028326 994431 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"this is invalid, not UB, therefore it's defined behaviour" < 1356028327 927901 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I did was defined to work < 1356028330 130712 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this argument is completely incoherent < 1356028335 188077 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what did you do, anyway? < 1356028346 739448 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think we can possibly understand this argument better by removing several layers of indirection < 1356028375 787857 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Define a keyword as a macro name in a program that uses the standard library facilities < 1356028394 312448 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what you did was not "defined to work" < 1356028396 715328 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the standard disallows it < 1356028398 769390 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's as simple as that < 1356028408 381642 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is not allowed by a "restriction" on programs using the stdlib < 1356028418 775778 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it is defined to work if you don't use the stdlib < 1356028437 432535 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:09:51: ISO/IEC 14882:2003 17.4.3.1.1p2 "A translation unit that includes a header shall not -- define macros for names lexically identical to keywords." < 1356028447 719136 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it is defined for ALL C++ programs, but the usage is restricted < 1356028455 880178 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:09:51: ISO/IEC 14882:2003 17.4.3.1.1p2 "A translation unit that includes a header shall not -- define macros for names lexically identical to keywords." < 1356028459 466150 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Look a bit further < 1356028470 398284 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually looked that up in the final draft, and it said something else < 1356028475 843089 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :all this talk about what's allowed and not... I don't think the C or C++ standards have been given the power to "allow" or "disallow" anything - they just say stuff about what a (standard) C or C++ compiler might do when presented with your code < 1356028476 996911 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that very paragraph) < 1356028486 984178 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:32:03: A translation unit shall not #define or #undef names lexically identical to keywords, to the identifiers listed < 1356028490 47944 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:32:04: in Table 3, or to the attribute-tokens described in 7.6. < 1356028493 852739 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you mean < 1356028494 533314 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:26:23: 7 Identifiers that are keywords or operators in C++ shall not be defined as macros in C++ standard library < 1356028497 817286 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:26:23: headers.176 < 1356028500 320625 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it's irrelevant < 1356028521 644444 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that was in the section for programs using the facilities of the standard library < 1356028598 869221 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I assume that everything under that section (especially if stated in paragraph 1 of that section) only applies to those cases < 1356028613 367522 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you included , that's part of the standard library... < 1356028634 745955 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, so the restriction is indeed there < 1356028639 847727 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that doesn't mean it's UB < 1356028653 565684 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, "shall not" = constraint violation = UB < 1356028659 986331 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any compiler that does not include the restriction will compile my program < 1356028679 377318 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest: I don't think you understand the terms you are using < 1356028688 403070 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, what ais523 said < 1356028695 225703 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you "shall not" do something but you did it then you have no guarantees < 1356028697 758962 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have a not-a-program < 1356028698 895813 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then why do they state explicitly when something is undefined behavior? < 1356028700 668471 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is not defined to work < 1356028714 618983 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest: err, they don't; sometimes they state something to be UB explicitly, but much more often they state it implicitly < 1356028724 308617 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's defined to work for all C++ programs, but you can't do it(It's an error) in some cases < 1356028726 819316 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a section near the start explaining what counts as implicit UB (basically, anything disallowed or anything that is not define) < 1356028731 285257 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*defined < 1356028740 973507 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest: time to bring out the old cliche: [citation needed] < 1356028746 951625 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have no basis whatsoever for that definition, you're just making shit up < 1356028780 615852 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Regardless of that, if you think logically about this; you will come to the conclusion that this must work on compilers that do not implement this restriction (which is almost all compilers) < 1356028803 905649 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: do you know whether, if you do #define a b, and then #define c a, expanding c will produce a or b? < 1356028811 42049 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest: no, that's not logic, that's just making assumptions < 1356028811 420954 :c00kiemon5ter!~c00kiemon@foss-aueb/coder/c00kiemon5ter PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's irrelevant < 1356028815 956854 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have no idea what logic is < 1356028820 958756 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1356028823 539777 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest: imagine something in is a macro that expands to something that happens to contain a keyword < 1356028824 10884 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's either a tautology or an assumption < 1356028827 799732 :Deewiant!~deewiant@deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest: "this must work on compilers that do exactly what I want on this piece of undefined behaviour" < 1356028839 832357 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now imagine you've defined that keyword to something else < 1356028842 437085 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: don't you mean ? < 1356028842 515047 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then use that macro later on < 1356028851 230377 :Deewiant!~deewiant@deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest: Which might be almost all compilers, but still. < 1356028852 230302 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes, I do, but I learned C++ before the .h got removed < 1356028852 543313 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the definition comes after the #include in AnotherTest's program < 1356028854 365100 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's irrelevant < 1356028855 606990 :c00kiemon5ter!~c00kiemon@foss-aueb/coder/c00kiemon5ter PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you're saying that your program work everywhere - but it is implementation defined behavior - because of a violation that compilers do not account for < 1356028866 490458 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I include at the top, that can never happen anyway so it's irrelevant < 1356028867 120922 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm trying to work out if that matters or not atm < 1356028868 518322 :c00kiemon5ter!~c00kiemon@foss-aueb/coder/c00kiemon5ter PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, will work *everywhere* < 1356028879 676350 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what if defines something as a macro that uses const? < 1356028881 74221 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :IEC ain't nothin' to fuck wit < 1356028889 181758 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think by cpp's semantics AnotherTest's const macro will apply when that gets expanded < 1356028895 180229 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yeah, that's the point I'm trying to make < 1356028902 3464 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1356028903 584585 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks for making it for me < 1356028907 787114 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it can very well fuck up in practice < 1356028919 96870 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in before AnotherTest says "it's ok because no compiler that doesn't do that would do that, so it's fine" < 1356028923 779720 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It cannot because it does not. < 1356028928 171780 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1356028933 203422 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try it, it does not < 1356028936 136091 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1356028937 303393 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :on your system < 1356028940 299567 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :you cannot implement a compiler that makes it fuck up < 1356028941 426435 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you understand standards < 1356028942 789908 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or abstractions < 1356028943 568635 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or anything < 1356028945 439166 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest: but you realise it would be possible to write an where it /does/ screw up? < 1356028945 911490 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or are you just trolling < 1356028951 767490 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can only restrict the behavior < 1356028956 310791 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1356028959 77572 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're just spewing random crap < 1356028963 792930 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that, some day, on a system where you run the program, you might come across an implementation which does use such an ? < 1356028966 623039 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you have any idea what anything you are saying actually means < 1356028972 185254 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: No because you have to write iostream according to the standard too < 1356028997 83167 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest: and the standard allows iostream to use const in macro expansions < 1356028998 74525 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: There are restrictions as to macros in itself < 1356029007 791310 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway it's totally irrelevant whether can fuck it up or not < 1356029010 359009 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it's not a program < 1356029013 760554 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are restrictions, but that is not one of them /because of the part of the standard elliott quoted/ < 1356029016 296301 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it doesn't even matter! < 1356029017 674177 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but what macro will you define? < 1356029030 790582 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't just define some random macro in iostream < 1356029033 895991 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest: I don't have the contents of memorized < 1356029041 611147 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there are quite possibly things in there that are defined to be macros < 1356029048 876299 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like "stdin" and "getc" are macros in < 1356029050 317984 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :So on what basis are you speaking < 1356029074 376355 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(glibc actually does "#define stdin stdin" in because stdin is defined to be a macro, so it makes sure it's a macro) < 1356029078 410208 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Those happen to be coming from C, where macros are more common < 1356029097 132154 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :The C++ standard tries to avoid macros for sure < 1356029114 983368 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :here's another way it can fuck up! < 1356029124 103138 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the compiler is allowed to reject a program if it violates the standards < 1356029125 799475 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the end < 1356029158 973775 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance I am pretty sure the compiler is allowed to, say, implement "const" by, after preprocessing the entire program, < 1356029161 901382 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I agree with that < 1356029167 230570 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :replacing every use of "const" as a keyword by ____my_compilers_fun_const_macro < 1356029167 391107 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :but almost no compiler will do that < 1356029180 556019 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are actually sets of options you can give to gcc to make it screw up noticeably on certain types of undefined behaviour, for instance < 1356029183 911558 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then re-preprocessing with #define ____my_compilers_fun_const_macro const < 1356029190 106153 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also your existing #define const or something < 1356029196 274665 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway it's pointless trying to come up with a tortured example < 1356029206 867912 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which exist specifically for the purpose of diagonising issues like this < 1356029217 42355 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: cool, which ones? < 1356029242 562707 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: there's --pedantic, most famously; also various specific warning options < 1356029248 51633 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that you can use in combination with -Werror < 1356029253 524270 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I compiled with --pedantic < 1356029262 90322 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but it isn't perfect < 1356029283 390959 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's -pedantic < 1356029283 547824 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is no option for gcc that blocks this to my knowlegde < 1356029287 284918 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :*knowledge < 1356029289 776875 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i thought you meant beyond -pedantic -Wall -Werror -Wextra < 1356029295 598302 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also gcc's -pedantic doesn't mean -check-for-validity < 1356029301 400598 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I just click a little box in my ide really < 1356029301 400809 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it means -emit-the-stuff-the-standard-demands-we-emit < 1356029322 50726 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :protip: your IDE doesn't know the standard and can't verify conformance for you < 1356029333 425145 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I didn't say it did < 1356029335 839826 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, whether a program is standards-compliant for C or C++ is undecidable, I think < 1356029359 837567 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Issue all the warnings demanded by strict ISO C and ISO C++; reject all programs that use forbidden extensions, and some other programs that do not follow ISO C and ISO C++." < 1356029384 700037 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well it doesn't even warn me < 1356029404 255638 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Some users try to use `-pedantic' to check programs for strict ISO C conformance. They soon find that it does not do quite what they want: it finds some non-ISO practices, but not all--only those for which ISO C _requires_ a diagnostic, and some others for which diagnostics have been added. < 1356029407 620371 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have made version 10 of FurryScript, which adds a command for story text. < 1356029460 692705 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually there are a few ways to use gcc extensions even with -pedantic < 1356029470 376253 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: in C it would be valid, the only language in which it is not is C++11 < 1356029478 389752 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: because glibc does? < 1356029485 17621 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah for header files < 1356029485 762799 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest: and why does that matter? < 1356029498 776662 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :protip: it's not a valid C program because it uses C++ features < 1356029500 108611 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like < 1356029506 843695 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Because you were talking about C < 1356029516 400481 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest: I am quoting from the gcc documentation < 1356029527 115492 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :specifically, if that's talking about C, it means that -pedantic is only intended for C < 1356029528 535861 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it was not referring to the program, but to the definition of keywords as macro names < 1356029533 219492 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so why are you using it for a C++ program? < 1356029542 178156 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose -fstack-protector is another flag that makes gcc screw up noticably on certain types of undefined behavior < 1356029550 462140 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1356029560 222303 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, uh, -D_FORTIFY_SOURCE=2 < 1356029562 488633 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, if you let some template expansion control whether or not the program does something undefined, then compliance should be undecidable due to the turing complete templates < 1356029562 645116 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, whatever that complex series of options are that make it do bounds checking < 1356029567 781403 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: because g++ is a C++ compiler I assume that it works for C++ too < 1356029574 425474 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and double-free detection < 1356029592 938559 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest: so why are you criticising me for quoting its documentation at you and its documentation only referencing C? < 1356029601 931542 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: simpler than that < 1356029603 172913 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there may be other reasons it's undecidable, of course < 1356029605 469089 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: does the standard specify a maximum template recursion depth? < 1356029611 614956 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: if (foo(n)) { n / 0; } < 1356029614 976469 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :a minimum maximum, if you will < 1356029620 722748 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm not < 1356029629 253394 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: if (see_if_it_halts(tm)) { n / 0; } < 1356029633 141634 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something < 1356029643 98828 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, that doesn't really prove undecidability < 1356029646 492958 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's obvious < 1356029667 79552 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem with runtime checks is that C is decidable/not turing complete? < 1356029719 954736 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :runtime checks are normally OK, you can only complain that the program's doing something illegal when it actually does it < 1356029724 354292 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than have to prove totality or the like < 1356029770 863072 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: oh hmm, I guess that tm one does prove it < 1356029777 721334 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :since if the program doesn't halt it never divides by 0 and is therefore OK < 1356029783 971577 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1356029787 35128 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :re: TCness, hmm, maybe yeah < 1356029791 35259 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's effectively undecidable :) < 1356029797 107879 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, the only flag that's going to detect the error I made, is going to be one for the preprocessor, not for the actual compiler itself < 1356029809 566040 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: btw, is dividing by 0 actually UB? < 1356029818 197907 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it strikes me as the sort of thing C99 liked defining < 1356029833 488830 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I believe so < 1356029881 897178 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wow, thanks Unity < 1356029895 619786 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :normally it takes a while to find whatever copy of the C standard I have lying around < 1356029903 244550 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in this case, it was alt+super, type "n1", first result < 1356029908 112960 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like it when it does things like that < 1356029935 515501 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : In both operations, if the value of the second operand is zero, the behavior is undefined. < 1356029938 791011 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, is still UB < 1356029959 418962 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the minimum size of a pointer in C? 8 bits? < 1356029983 692381 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think 0 bits is technically illegal < 1356029994 163957 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, probably is, it'd violate implementation limits < 1356030017 486407 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the standard doesn't put any lower requirement on it directly, apart from it's a multiple of CHAR_BIT and CHAR_BIT is at least 8 < 1356030054 571642 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does -1 counts as an allowed factor? < 1356030055 882567 :Deewiant!~deewiant@deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably sizeof has to be nonzero, or something? < 1356030059 701726 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :*count < 1356030068 552187 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you could have a single byte of memory, with every pointer pointing to the same byte < 1356030070 655147 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, is sizeof void valid? < 1356030075 320150 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if so, what do we know about its result? < 1356030078 917071 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :are (a+0) and (a+1) required to be distinct for array a < 1356030090 508879 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: I think you're guaranteed to be able to create more storage than that in C < 1356030091 167151 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: If it has one, it should be 0 < 1356030094 823694 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me check the translation limits < 1356030103 241555 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's not valid, it's trying to take the size of an incomplete type < 1356030131 596580 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the same as writing "struct FILE; printf("%d",(int)sizeof FILE);" < 1356030139 412511 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo.c:4:27: warning: invalid application of ‘sizeof’ to a void type [-pedantic] < 1356030144 409935 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: right < 1356030147 324811 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :result is 1 on my system < 1356030157 398717 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :So compilers like gcc-4.5 work < 1356030160 418444 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I think gcc used to define sizeof void as 1 < 1356030162 18640 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://ideone.com/3fLeLm < 1356030164 415573 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :void is an incomplete type? < 1356030166 702725 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as an extension < 1356030167 927894 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: yes < 1356030171 133982 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1356030175 312549 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :1, really < 1356030180 471392 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess because (void *) ~ (char *) < 1356030185 755087 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can say sizeof(*voidptr) < 1356030191 637641 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess that means "void a[5]" is also disallowed < 1356030198 469084 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1356030210 36546 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: for hosted implementations, it appears to be 16 bits < 1356030217 270288 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can always do sizeof(pointer type) I htink < 1356030220 425929 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no way to meet the translation limits otherwise < 1356030223 223102 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, hmm, no < 1356030230 834966 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can declare but not define a function that takes a void parameter? < 1356030232 896615 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :only at least one program has to meet the limits < 1356030242 263109 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I think so, actually, unless there's a special reason not to < 1356030246 542467 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually no < 1356030250 54522 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think for incomplete types < 1356030256 107354 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can declare pointers to them, but not the types themselves < 1356030263 537835 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, so you could allow a single special program access to 64kB of memory, while not letting any other programs do that? < 1356030263 875828 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ofc it's fine to have a function that takes a void* parameter < 1356030267 277350 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: yep < 1356030267 357649 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo.c:1:12: warning: parameter 1 (‘x’) has void type [enabled by default] < 1356030267 511173 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo.c:3:12: error: parameter 1 (‘x’) has incomplete type < 1356030276 156416 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah "pointer to incomplete type" is a complete type < 1356030290 759475 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is like the foundation of abstract data in C :D < 1356030323 732763 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a way to write "pointer to function of unspecified type" < 1356030327 715091 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: well I don't see anything here that guarantees that, in general, sizeof(char*) is positive < 1356030339 923199 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: sizeof returns size_t, right? < 1356030342 254727 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do you mean it could be0 < 1356030343 534280 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*be 0 < 1356030346 909231 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: no, sadly; void(*)() works in practice, because it's freely interconvertible with other sorts of function pointer < 1356030350 163534 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as you don't try to execute it < 1356030353 943960 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I mean it could be 0 < 1356030355 326946 :keb!~keb@c-71-59-209-166.hsd1.or.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1356030360 97853 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least, I can't see anything actually forbidding that < 1356030370 651839 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well < 1356030373 228025 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly such an implementation would be kind-of useless in practice < 1356030403 561584 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could probably only implement it with one of those compilers that looks for #error directives, and if it doesn't see any, prints "Diagnostic!" and returns EXIT_SUCCESS, with no other side effects < 1356030416 991743 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this is infamous for being a strictly conforming C implementation) < 1356030429 979707 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it have to print "Diagnostic!" < 1356030440 248048 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it has to print /a/ diagnostic < 1356030443 88222 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in case of UB < 1356030447 801963 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1356030452 716401 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*in case of constrant violations < 1356030455 224747 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*constraint < 1356030463 395599 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :some UB, the compiler is responsible for warning about < 1356030487 677956 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this is what gcc's -pedantic is for; it's for warning about UB that it's its duty to detect and warning about, but that the gcc devs feel isn't a problem in practice) < 1356030496 493813 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1356030509 800735 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's much easier to print a very generic diagnostic < 1356030513 642804 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :than to work out which need to be printed < 1356030535 830484 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :ds9k's C compiler could have a "fast compile" mode that does exactly that < 1356030536 260607 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1356030555 674317 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the diagnostic is exiting with status 0, obviously < 1356030567 400086 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :can it use that diagnostic for #error, too? < 1356030575 596367 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, does it have to *print* a diagnostic? < 1356030588 757405 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: #error is the only thing that has to make the compiler fail < 1356030599 251492 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas it has to succeed on strictly conforming programs < 1356030615 735100 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure if it's entirely clear that success and failure states have to be distinguishable, but most people assume that they do < 1356030646 773157 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/aKgb < 1356030671 998601 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm < 1356030682 559272 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and it's not just UB to use #error or anything? < 1356030685 366396 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that would be weird < 1356030699 741738 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope, #error is the one special case where the program has to absolutely be rejected < 1356030724 298408 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember Borland C++ only ever did "Fatal" and halt the compilation immediately, rather than "Error" and keep going, upon a missing input file, or a #error directive < 1356030740 294964 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that is, "keep going" in the make -k sense) < 1356030866 96491 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@188.134.41.172 JOIN :#esoteric < 1356031077 311528 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-51-132.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1356031077 412953 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-51-132.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1356031077 484301 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1356032221 330220 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1356033164 964267 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1356033795 873944 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT : < 1356034151 570394 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A preprocessing directive of the form # error pp-tokens_opt new-line causes the implementation to produce a diagnostic message that includes the specified sequence of preprocessing tokens." < 1356034177 936047 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it can't be just a generic "Diagnostic!". (Though you could argue what "produce" means.) < 1356034190 511455 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: OK. < 1356034191 9745 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you need an ASCII output or whatever to compile C? :/ < 1356034227 39098 :Deewiant!~deewiant@deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :You need to be able to output what you're able to take as input. < 1356034228 189410 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But what if the program is encoded with EBCDIC? < 1356034236 329744 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it still counts as "producing" if you encode the tokens in some reversible way. < 1356034257 54826 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(As a matter of personal opinion, that is.) < 1356034288 34157 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: really? < 1356034297 615011 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you mean, just because of that thing < 1356034299 599667 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or because of something else < 1356034317 74395 :Deewiant!~deewiant@deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't that sufficient? Combined with the fact that strings are pp-tokens. < 1356034328 804959 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know where ais523's comment about "has to absolutely be rejected" came from; I don't see anything in at least this section saying it needs to do anything else than produce the diagnostic, much like any constraint violation. < 1356034335 407014 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I made a program which encodes floating point numbers as six bytes; is that good enough? < 1356034467 561213 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there any judiciary body which has the authority to rule on compliance with the C spec? < 1356034600 477655 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I don't know, but I don't like all of the changes they made to the new one. Does ISO do compliance? Will Open Group do? < 1356034628 303480 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: you mean besides #esoteric? < 1356034648 692414 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1356034710 46078 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: O, yes, I forgot that one. < 1356034854 575367 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :For some reason my mouse wheel occasionally stops working in Google Maps. < 1356034895 356653 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal JOIN :#esoteric < 1356035184 26538 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@188.134.41.172 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1356035204 909455 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@188.134.41.172 JOIN :#esoteric < 1356035226 592586 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that's stupid. I used to have -- in fact, still have -- a printscreen keybinding in XMonad to run "gnome-screenshot -i", the interactive mode; but something else has walked all over that and made print-screen just take a full-all-screens screenshot and dump it in ~ with a default timestamp-based name. < 1356035306 795910 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1356035429 710848 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does Linux console do anything with print screen key? < 1356035449 987326 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it does anything special. < 1356035468 52089 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you don't count producing some kind of a key code. < 1356036344 13460 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Linux does use System Request, though. < 1356036390 443574 :sgeo_!~sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alt-SysRq < 1356036398 615840 :sgeo_!~sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :REISUB < 1356036428 64624 :sgeo_!~sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_SysRq_key < 1356036433 960625 :sgeo_!~sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The magic SysRq key is a key combination understood by the Linux kernel, which allows the user to perform various low-level commands regardless of the system's state. It is often used to recover from freezes, or to reboot a computer without corrupting the filesystem.[1] < 1356036827 374712 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1356036832 727240 :Nisstyre!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre JOIN :#esoteric < 1356036954 644041 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages < 1356036954 799700 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreyKnight asked 5h 35m 41s ago: "did you know maps used to have east up" You mean back in the dwarves' day?? < 1356036974 727788 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell GreyKnight No. < 1356036974 897742 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1356037687 931404 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1356038198 847228 :impomatic!~digital_w@144.48.113.87.dyn.plus.net QUIT :Quit: http://retroprogramming.com < 1356038208 635063 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-54f97e-153.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1356038762 34768 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-51-132.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1356038762 106714 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-51-132.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1356038762 107028 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1356038908 253728 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1356038944 70306 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-54f97e-153.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1356039323 158411 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-54f97e-153.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1356039734 138746 :keb!~keb@c-71-59-209-166.hsd1.or.comcast.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1356040041 142425 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-54f97e-153.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1356040286 854655 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@fluttershy.pl QUIT :Excess Flood < 1356040377 738439 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arc_Koen: yes. yes it was < 1356040384 308314 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, what does "Arc" stand for? < 1356040393 767967 :asiekierka_!~asiekierk@fluttershy.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1356040409 793138 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't it just mean "arc" < 1356040410 435233 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. < 1356040433 383916 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-54f97e-153.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1356040438 172348 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell elliott it did indeed h < 1356040438 651431 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1356040525 945332 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :did i say something < 1356040526 283238 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. < 1356040529 171356 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks' < 1356040530 691108 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages < 1356040531 21294 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike said 1m 32s ago: it did indeed h < 1356040535 918965 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops the ' went wrong < 1356040536 955050 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*thank's < 1356041031 524275 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The winter solstice is in approx. 13 hours from now < 1356041116 517118 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the mayans warned us < 1356041124 52215 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1356041165 307546 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-54f97e-153.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1356041174 356253 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warned you of what? The solstice? < 1356041186 933966 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1356041221 459297 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has been December 21st for six minutes or so here now. < 1356041226 867747 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, seven. < 1356041247 42300 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even though it is, that doesn't make it the winder solstice yet. < 1356041251 927027 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hope that mayans have big parties planned to celebrate the b'ak'tun slash mock americans < 1356041264 316218 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :'It is important to note that Earth does not move at a constant speed in its elliptical orbit. Therefore the seasons are not of equal length: the times taken for the sun to move from the vernal equinox to the summer solstice, to the autumnal equinox, to the winter solstice, and back to the vernal equinox are roughly 92.8, 93.6, 89.8 and 89.0 days respectively.' < 1356041269 446541 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, i had no idea < 1356041288 989048 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote The winter solstice is in approx. 13 hours from now the mayans warned us Warned you of what? The solstice? yes < 1356041292 659933 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :879) The winter solstice is in approx. 13 hours from now the mayans warned us Warned you of what? The solstice? yes < 1356041329 167834 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :«Scenarios suggested for the end of the world include the arrival of the next solar maximum, an interaction between Earth and the black hole at the center of the galaxy,[9] or Earth's collision with a planet called Nibiru.» wow, i didn't realize they were going to be things that would be so easy to see coming < 1356041357 440307 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about neutrinos from the sun causing the earth's core to become superheated < 1356041358 399125 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even disregarding the different speeds, it still is not perfectly aligned with the calendar, which is why we have leap years. < 1356041380 339318 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: is that from some movie < 1356041401 498499 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1356041444 926683 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"President Wilson is later killed by a megatsunami that sends the aircraft carrier USS John F. Kennedy crashing into the White House" < 1356041446 543539 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :«on 13 August 3113 BC the Earth began a passage through a "galactic synchronization beam" that emanated from the center of our galaxy» i've been missing out < 1356041455 307045 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, what? < 1356041458 829575 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : can't it just mean "arc" <-- no it needs to be something archetypical < 1356041459 335940 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-54f97e-153.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1356041465 780130 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is a thing that happens in the film < 1356041477 387618 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, is this that 2012 movie? < 1356041488 860102 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1356041493 926099 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :neutrinos < 1356041495 965400 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i remember seeing the little clip about einstein saying the continents would... come... loose? something appropriately insane < 1356041496 410070 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shit-tons of them < 1356041519 855422 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :my only regret will be having bonitis < 1356041525 544452 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :++ < 1356041532 564704 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :my only regret is that i have no regrets < 1356041582 829342 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :«the 2012 date has been loosely tied to the long-running concept of the Photon Belt, which predicts a form of interaction between Earth and Alcyone, the largest star of the Pleiades cluster.[120] Critics have argued that photons cannot form belts» < 1356041586 83473 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe this end of the world business is a good excuse to buy alcohol < 1356041599 412295 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha < 1356041622 24791 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://zzo38computer.org/img_14/solsticehoroscope.png < 1356041639 477734 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :« there is an immense belt of photons orbiting around the Pleiades. According to some New Age beliefs, Earth will pass through this belt of photons, resulting either in humanity's elevation to a higher plane of existence, the end of the world, or both» < 1356041649 220504 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :the photons' toolmaking skills are not likely to be up to making belts < 1356041654 541390 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously you could just, look outside? notice the pleiades are way the fuck over there < 1356041667 563012 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love the use of "critics have argued" to describe basic facts about the world < 1356041671 636249 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: how does one read this? < 1356041708 474023 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :«Some media outlets have tied the fact that the red supergiant star Betelgeuse will undergo a supernova at some point in the future to the 2012 phenomenon.[122] However, while Betelgeuse is certainly in the final stages of its life, and will die as a supernova, there is no way to predict the timing of the event to within 100,000 years» wikipedia's really good as a straight man, really. < 1356041718 837292 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1356041737 909461 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: The circle shows the ecliplic longitude of the object represented there. < 1356041759 269021 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"On 21 December 2011, the Maya town of Tapachula in Chiapas activated an eight-foot digital clock counting down the days until the end of b'ak'tun 13, while in Izapa, a nearby archaeological site, Maya priests burned incense and prayed." marketing_to_tourists.gif < 1356041765 824303 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The actual distance differs but they are shown all on one circle; if you included the distance, then it won't fit on the page, or will be impossible to read. < 1356041775 193021 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fiora: now that's what i'm talking about. < 1356041786 950457 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that an actual gif < 1356041801 554388 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I know my astrological sign. How do I get this chart to tell me my soulmate's favorite band? < 1356041806 967034 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is the b'ak'tun 13, though, even if it is not the end of the world. < 1356041808 902085 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(un)fortunately no? XD < 1356041834 129617 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: It probably can't, unless you put your soulmate's favorite band on there. < 1356041838 417559 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's pretty sad how people don't realize that the mayans didn't just suddenly disappear < 1356041914 627441 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The molecules, these being iron, phosphorus, calcium, copper, nitrogen, carbon, starch, etc., etc., would be completely modified due to this radiation. This means that you will see a change in matter." this photon belt stuff is so intriguing < 1356041941 898942 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: And are you sure of your astrological sign? For the same reason as leap year, the sun sign won't be exactly the same calendar date every year. < 1356041983 900367 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure enough to pay astrologists money! < 1356042030 92313 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can figure it out for free using various computer programs; you do not have to pay. < 1356042061 52990 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you're missing out on a big market for zzo38computer here, man. < 1356042101 213830 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want me to mail you a copy, then of course I will charge you for that. But other than that, I won't. < 1356042211 980971 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-54f97e-153.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1356042253 339611 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :For example, the coordinates for the winter solstice (in the northern hemisphere) will be 0 Capricorn, regardless of the date it occurs. This year, it is 11:11 AM GMT on December 21 < 1356042270 368343 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(As can be seen easily by the horoscope, if you know how to read it) < 1356042277 243901 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~noelh/index.htm < 1356043038 358111 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1356043148 361336 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 JOIN :#esoteric < 1356043380 190607 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: it means "bow" in french < 1356043402 70867 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use to have "arc-en-ciel", which is french for rainbow, as my nick < 1356043447 21202 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :My brother mentioned, it is like the Y2K; the Mayans did not write their calendar up to 13.0.0.0.0 as we have not programmed our computer up to 2000, for example. < 1356043457 8486 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arc_Koen: ... it doesn't mean "bow" < 1356043458 777647 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :it means "arc" < 1356043460 672884 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :And people thought also of Y2K, that the world will end. < 1356043473 916298 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :or arch < 1356043486 757558 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...yeah ok < 1356043487 614622 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :"arc-en-ciel" translates literally to "arch in sky" < 1356043490 604356 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :bow de triumph < 1356043492 448904 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it also means bow < 1356043507 247109 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :bow, arch, what's the diff < 1356043512 785328 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not really arch, though < 1356043515 178061 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :barch < 1356043522 298113 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've always thought of it as "arc" from "arc de cercle" < 1356043523 306486 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :famous composer < 1356043525 617196 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1356043531 647574 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a subset of a circle?) < 1356043537 82676 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's actually "triumfbuen" in norwegian, btw < 1356043542 828445 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arc_Koen: an arc is the correct English term as well < 1356043544 5922 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :we call those arcs here in amurrica, arc_koen < 1356043554 841556 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(where bue means both bow and arch) < 1356043565 339601 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1356043569 32166 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arc_Koen: I was more taken aback by the lack of a military rank < 1356043575 647321 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arc_Koen: also, continuum *is* a movie < 1356043607 592302 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: heh i recently explained it to a friend in a similar way < 1356043615 673638 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you can take "arc" to be the rank from the clone army in star wars < 1356043629 233657 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's the reason I kept it that way) < 1356043636 847454 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah, continuum was great :) < 1356043657 656838 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I kinda dislike that habit they have to mess with the timeline with no effect < 1356043657 735276 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm imagining mayan rock-circle based computers short circuiting. < 1356043673 991781 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, the stargate activated in a boat while nobody knew what it was, in 1939?? < 1356043680 938522 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's gotta change the way the stargate program went < 1356043692 867887 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: OK < 1356043743 201573 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arc_Koen: I could believe that it didn't much < 1356043767 664956 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah < 1356043791 932766 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Mitchell left in the past? what if he encounters a girl and have children and stuff < 1356043928 801422 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :blah blah butterfly effect blah blah < 1356044190 70862 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't think there's such a thing as the butterfly effect when talking about ~80 ans < 1356044195 209668 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :80 years* < 1356044238 314923 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they didn't have butterflies then < 1356044238 386621 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1356044259 759114 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, butterflies don't live that long < 1356044476 745235 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION isn't sure what Arc_Koen means. < 1356044608 888428 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :arc probably just means arc, not sure about the "koen" part < 1356044628 788471 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank you olsner < 1356044889 377813 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :happy to help < 1356044959 575831 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's with torrents of tv shows that have random swings in quality < 1356045013 749215 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean between seasons i can get, but the farscape torrent i was using went from mediocre resolution to postcard-sized about 3 episodes into season 3 < 1356045242 937147 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps it is a biting commentary on the sensory decline which must accompany us all in our inexorable march toward the grave < 1356045853 393023 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arc_Koen: i've read a theory about time travel/butterfly effect which is particularly sensitive - by considering the exact timing of human sperm cells, you can argue that after a very short while, essentially _no one_ will be born who was born in the previous timeline. < 1356045879 114751 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1356045888 606475 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how short is "very short"? < 1356045900 580427 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :not much longer than 9 months :P < 1356045915 487554 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance, if your time-travel takes place in america, then how long before it affects asia? < 1356045920 525952 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just need timings to be a fraction of a second off < 1356045969 832894 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm i guess it might not spread as fast in space... < 1356046031 312799 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the effect of radiation on the upper atmosphere should be enough < 1356046084 923551 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i didn't mean _outer_ space in case that was unclear, just as opposed to time) < 1356046120 400416 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :today: the speed of butterflies in vacuum < 1356046144 323979 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps the exact subset of genes you get from your father is not so important though < 1356046162 750143 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it kind of is < 1356046199 427042 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which sperm cell fertilises an egg also affects the entire embryological development process < 1356046394 860066 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@188.134.41.172 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1356046401 996783 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :insane idea: explaining the fermi paradox by saying that time travel butterfly effects destroy any civilization by turning their timeline into a paradoxal chaos as soon as it becomes advanced enough to observe signs of another similar civilization, as a kind of interstellar infection < 1356046425 234181 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that uh < 1356046428 330077 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is quite insane < 1356046434 364829 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :dazed and confused, but trying to continue < 1356046441 730940 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly because the necessary time travel is quite absent < 1356046442 930117 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :STOP THOSE EXOPLANET SEARCHES NOW < 1356046464 243927 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly any civilisation ends as soon as it discovers time travel < 1356046471 990380 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because some joker goes back and fucks up everything < 1356046480 750792 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this implies time travel is somehow spatially local I guess < 1356046489 45245 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: no, only one planet needs to actually discover time travel... the others are destroyed just by observing the effects < 1356046492 687926 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm maybe that can actually be true? for a certain value of spatially < 1356046501 227392 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because information propagates slowly enough or something < 1356046514 75337 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it propagates at the speed of life < 1356046515 662037 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the problem with time travel is it also needs to include space travel < 1356046516 659370 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*light < 1356046525 233680 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I go back six months odds are good I will be suffocating < 1356046530 915317 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: exactly < 1356046540 679055 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: that's pretty slow < 1356046543 379416 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you take large enough disatnces < 1356046544 550907 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*distances < 1356046557 829033 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, still don't get it < 1356046566 951823 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :man, we're gonna be like, the last civilization to bite it? that's so uncool. < 1356046569 794191 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :from what you've said the observations would still be causal? < 1356046580 313836 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so maybe at a long enough distance the "interference" is low enough that if someone goes back in time in such a way that the present changes, the whole present universe doesn't get wiped over < 1356046584 317500 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just part of it and it sort of ripples out < 1356046588 473099 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION pseudoscientist extraordinaire < 1356046627 304768 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1356046679 653637 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am the ghost of time travel past. Be saved and repent! < 1356046685 134919 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1356046685 581417 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: yes, but you are observing another planet whose timeline is completely chaotic and constantly modifying itself by paradox - which causes your own timeline to do the same from that point on < 1356046716 748933 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, but that's using the hopelessly-inconsistent doctor who model of time travel < 1356046725 459289 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well duh :P < 1356046740 417965 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that works with my model. sor tof. < 1356046742 342954 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sort of. < 1356046756 96032 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :any paradox would be spatially localised and ripple out somehow!! < 1356046783 93165 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should also make them temporally localised and ripply, to get the full time travel movie effect. < 1356046940 792996 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Once I read in some book, ask the question: If you were out of the universe and traveled into five minutes ahead, what would happen? I thought of the same answer they have, but I also think they are wrong. < 1356046970 894401 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, are you French? < 1356046979 19010 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: No. < 1356046986 702742 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see. < 1356046999 660407 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was their answer < 1356047004 373643 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :afair he's canadian and not even a french-canadian < 1356047017 849803 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :canadian!? < 1356047021 875501 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo? < 1356047030 194150 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote at Canada < 1356047031 978320 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :377) as i was filled with zzo38 mystery at the moment i saw quintopia: I am at Canada. < 1356047033 286622 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You will be in outer space, with no air to breathe. < 1356047051 934258 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: what does "out of the universe" mean? < 1356047052 988652 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :He just reminds me of a person I know elsewhere. I was wondering if the typing style was related to a common language or something. < 1356047065 914932 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i should point out that was almost certainly not why i was filled with mystery, as i knew he was canadian before then. i think. < 1356047067 54412 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike, he speaks a language all of his own < 1356047068 891053 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe zzo38 is a native English speaker? < 1356047086 813305 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm. < 1356047093 935336 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that it and english are somewhat mutually intelligible is but a happy coincidence < 1356047106 782174 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes i want to ask people why they write the way they do, but it would probably be very rude for me to do so in most cases < 1356047112 733475 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes I am native English speaker, but it is Canadian English, not British English. < 1356047120 739591 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, thanks for mostly annihilating that fear there, phantom_hoover < 1356047134 758797 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: I don't care; I think you should ask a question if you want to learn. < 1356047149 14011 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :noted. < 1356047246 78078 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i feel i should mention that it's actually more that you're the only person i've seen using the AGPL than any writing quirks < 1356047250 828969 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*only other < 1356047347 922666 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are talking to someone who prefers gopher < 1356047352 93185 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and plain tex < 1356047370 476297 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, exactly, this other person does the same sort of thing < 1356047428 567448 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote gopher < 1356047430 398082 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :285) I think I managed to make Stack Overflow work on gopher, now. < 1356047431 524138 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote \btex < 1356047433 455980 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :238) If you want to use TeX formats invented by Christians, use Plain TeX. However, I do not think the religion of its author is a good way to decide what to use. I decide to use Plain TeX for its own reasons. \ 710) ok in other words, its a lot easier to reason about 2^43112609-1 apples by using the text "2^43112609-1" than it i < 1356047439 521336 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote \btex\b < 1356047441 324983 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :238) If you want to use TeX formats invented by Christians, use Plain TeX. However, I do not think the religion of its author is a good way to decide what to use. I decide to use Plain TeX for its own reasons. < 1356047448 794004 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's amazing < 1356047451 633373 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1356047489 503904 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote Yes I am native English speaker, but it is Canadian English, not British English. < 1356047493 733099 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :880) Yes I am native English speaker, but it is Canadian English, not British English. < 1356047505 37630 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :canadian english is my favorite language < 1356047506 26965 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: What other person, and who does the same sort of things as what? < 1356047529 901936 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't actually know anything about canadian English dialects, now that I think about it. of course i barely know anything about my own dialect < 1356047598 597647 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: uses the AGPL, sometimes uses obscure and old protocols instead of newer ones because they feel those protocols are better, i don't know how to describe it more < 1356047619 518402 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@google canadian english < 1356047621 504257 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_English < 1356047621 848581 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Title: Canadian English - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia < 1356047646 261942 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Canadian English, is that like an euphemism for something nasty? < 1356047651 794172 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Canadianisms" < 1356047664 48818 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, "yooper dialect" < 1356047715 196668 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.O "The Yooper dialect is also influenced by the Finnish language" < 1356047720 875284 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Canadian Finnish! < 1356047742 847134 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yoopari < 1356047743 883444 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not that surprising, a lot of the northern US is descended from scandinavians < 1356047760 155066 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, old northwest, would probably be more exact... i dunno. < 1356047763 833511 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, *yööpäri < 1356047778 935145 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run words --eng-all --french --finnish 20 # a bit like this? < 1356047785 206197 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :pcquo nimaeleal thatt bab egresceroo ethomograal liilta etgressans mekavanasisuita theger diakiireältä ostacile conficagert yegastissa yaumast moit derdinertu red tent lakathintonarin < 1356047812 499669 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Red tent lakathintonarin. < 1356047824 499637 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what did that do < 1356047829 653605 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ye emigrant finn, sitting in his little red tent by Lakathintonarin < 1356047840 498260 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interpolated the character n-grams. < 1356047860 170016 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1356047860 619743 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike, doesn't that come from UP for upper peninsula < 1356047878 132498 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run words --finnish --swedish # this is what they speak in Åland < 1356047880 573170 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :liitat < 1356047881 522338 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: apparently, but i'm mostly giggling childishly at "yooper" < 1356047882 603850 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i learnt so much worthless trivia about northern michigan from american gods < 1356047889 638118 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1356047896 407398 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run words --finnish --swedish 15 # a bit more please < 1356047898 804883 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :pella leptiserva vahtavissa felkonekdomma alsagna sträkkää utkistualist kaksfullenaan boremiera slum sinkerne lyhyinäs ska palteiskonte strumiljettamagin < 1356047903 298857 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they have pasties there apparently, you'd fit right in there Bike < 1356047910 68205 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what did that do < 1356047920 36284 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am suave and popular. < 1356047935 767830 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: last time I checked, they just speak swedish there < 1356047944 4302 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :(boringly) < 1356047949 979076 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't even sound finnish < 1356047951 280394 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Good night