< 1356220839 887847 :sebbu4!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1356220840 72259 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you mean things like bind2 = join .: liftA2 and so on? < 1356220841 372634 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which takes the appearance of a function ??? :: (Monad m) => m a -> a < 1356220841 556545 :sebbu4!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Excess Flood < 1356220857 76728 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Said function can only be used in a certain context < 1356220863 660732 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean takes the appearance < 1356220864 670106 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You need a macro, then. < 1356220867 665683 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and used in a certain context < 1356220868 762955 :sebbu4!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-51-132.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1356220868 947232 :sebbu4!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-51-132.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1356220868 947319 :sebbu4!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1356220871 803436 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is not a function. < 1356220877 230918 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think you're speaking haskell < 1356220890 95760 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're speaking (???language) with haskellish syntax < 1356220894 242729 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy, yes < 1356220900 638802 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:59:35 An applicative-ish syntax for using monads < 1356220904 93778 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you mean applicatives < 1356220914 437655 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :alt. have you seen the work on effect systems < 1356220921 466715 :sebbu4!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu < 1356220924 971163 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haven't seen the work on effect systems :( < 1356220927 664510 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm thinking m a -> a would cause a lot of trouble with the IO monad < 1356220930 92743 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: well my point with you should express your thoughts in haskell is we don't know what you're talking about when you use these weird terms < 1356220935 915289 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-bhx2-h-55-4.dab.02.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1356220946 806786 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :eff, frank, etc. < 1356220952 621549 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy, the best I can do is Haskell with shift and reset forms < 1356220969 306584 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about haskell with the Cont monad < 1356220981 700639 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it is a first-class representation of delimited continuations < 1356220983 175856 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that already exists < 1356220994 392144 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: the point is sgeo isn't speaking haskell. he's speaking a weird thing. < 1356221013 11128 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull, it shouldn't < 1356221044 731100 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: don't think anything sgeo's saying applies to haskell.... < 1356221063 185577 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does it apply to? < 1356221071 682316 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :idk something weird < 1356221074 730035 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not haskell < 1356221094 46852 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not "really" taking an arbitrary m a and turning it into a, it's taking the rest of the computation up to the reset, with its location as \a ->, and using >>= on its argument and that lambda < 1356221118 845572 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I know: It's a bit like calling <- a function < 1356221122 637224 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it can apply to Ibtlfmm but even if it does, it would be a macro, and not a function. < 1356221131 392516 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-bhx2-h-55-9.dab.02.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1356221149 308086 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :remember that time I proposed using Cont rather than confusing people < 1356221163 253822 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-bhx2-h-55-9.dab.02.net QUIT :Client Quit < 1356221166 267386 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: How is that? < 1356221167 676082 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I propose that this is for languages that don't have do < 1356221172 757037 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :remember that time I hinted in that direction and made explicit sgeo was confusing people < 1356221172 999099 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that do is ugly < 1356221184 568470 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :What would be a language that would be the opposite of Haskell? < 1356221192 764121 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: meaningless question < 1356221205 568490 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: i propose that this proposal is completely irrelevant to your question... < 1356221218 293178 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: could you -please- use Cont so I can understand what you're saying < 1356221223 641254 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: i assume you have heard of applicative notation right < 1356221227 685513 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: because otherwise I'm not getting anything out of your words < 1356221229 16889 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :since this sounds like you're edging in that direction but in a really weird way < 1356221235 732079 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course you still won't be able to do join which is kind of important < 1356221247 123954 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :??? (??? a) is join < 1356221257 217620 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :idiom brackets can do join!!!!!!can't they < 1356221260 824625 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Applicative doesn't really do m a -> a < 1356221288 260435 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not "really" doing m a -> a either, just the illusion of it < 1356221293 187723 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: sgeo was never talking about m a -> a. he was talking about somethign weird that he -called- m a -> a < 1356221302 654689 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should just go write Factor code, would that help? < 1356221312 986769 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Might do < 1356221314 983164 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1356221322 764331 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :we don't know factor we know Cont < 1356221329 288834 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so can you please use Cont to communicate with us < 1356221343 309286 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are the types of shift and reset in Cont? < 1356221345 324424 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise we won't be very helpful?? < 1356221349 141059 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :still would like an answer to my Applicative question < 1356221358 907872 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: What are the stack effects of shift and reset in Factor? < 1356221359 593596 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :o yes i would like an answer to that too < 1356221365 228058 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4d0b7c55.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should know that monqy exists in 3 persons..father son and.. < 1356221378 672296 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4d0b7c55.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the beast < 1356221385 612032 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shift f = Cont (flip runCont id . f) < 1356221392 739472 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :reset m = return (runCont m id) < 1356221394 752766 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the form oleg uses < 1356221398 996991 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :runCont and Cont work just fine though < 1356221399 947510 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t runCont < 1356221401 234939 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cont r a -> (a -> r) -> r < 1356221403 986486 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t cont < 1356221405 697137 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :((a -> r) -> r) -> Cont r a < 1356221411 100359 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :f <$> ma <*> mb <*> pure c <*> md --> f (??? a) (??? b) c (??? d) < 1356221424 258125 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so (| f a b ~c d |) < 1356221451 217464 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway just look at frank and eff if you want applicative notation for effects < 1356221526 816938 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1356221529 326807 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: but, your ??? function still clearly doesn't exist in Haskell < 1356221540 132681 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want to work with the effect of a continuation then you want to write with Cont < 1356221542 804054 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: f <$> ma <*> mb <*> pure c <*> md would return the m d of md :: m d though < 1356221549 719942 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1356221552 681110 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :????? < 1356221553 441016 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1356221587 838897 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, if m is [], then it will return a [] d < 1356221606 606635 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not true < 1356221612 968590 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you familiar with Applicatives? < 1356221635 603143 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (+) <$> [1] <*> [2] < 1356221637 26500 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [3] < 1356221671 682972 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (\ a b -> show (a + b)) <$> Just 1 <*> Just 2 < 1356221673 201797 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Just "3" < 1356221681 654886 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just going to go ahead and call it mamb < 1356221684 526900 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And write code < 1356221686 534314 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nb that is not Maybe Int < 1356221689 568459 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: Oh yeah, you're right < 1356221715 758649 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: just call it "wtf". it's nothing to do with amb really < 1356221727 61652 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :It returns m b of f :: a -> b < 1356221762 636697 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Factor, { 1 2 3 } amb seems to return a 1, unless backtracking occurs, in which case it returns 2, unless that backtracks too, in which case it returns 3 < 1356221870 943856 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course I have no idea what backtracking means here < 1356221890 213358 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone < 1356221935 542932 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :{ 1 2 3 } amb dup 2 = require . < 1356221937 816874 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Will print 2 < 1356221975 102923 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, so that is how it works. < 1356221985 508387 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :So require goes back and undoes everything until it gets a true? < 1356221997 289750 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull, yes < 1356222087 994671 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does it mix with IO? < 1356222134 728031 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The IO will get performed each time around. So probably a bad idea to mix them < 1356222201 206030 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depends on the IO I suppose < 1356222247 791733 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :How far does require go back to? The nearest amb? < 1356222303 216877 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The nearest amb, unless that amb fails entirely, in which case it goes up an amb < 1356222362 748198 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: how it actually works is it saves the continuation < 1356222374 492527 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then runs it until it erorrs, and if it does, it retries with the next option < 1356222502 960642 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see how this would make any sense for anything other than a [] of options < 1356222575 630434 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or something similar in structure < 1356222620 422763 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can do it with infinite sets pretty easily < 1356222838 451084 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1356223123 367822 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What would be a good non-listy monad to try my idea out on < 1356223127 738799 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not counting Cont < 1356223142 599272 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm considering Maybe to be listy) < 1356223183 56643 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-2-99-82-172.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(->) r? < 1356223200 291733 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-2-99-82-172.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't know what idea you're working on, though < 1356223307 356509 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Writer, IO < 1356223367 379401 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :((->) r) is also like a data structure < 1356223370 372407 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION attempts to process wtf this looks like in Writer < 1356223373 98321 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :indexed by elements of r < 1356223374 408493 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :reverse state monad < 1356223386 238958 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's some formal distinction between data structure like monads and other ones < 1356223393 833800 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i forgot < 1356223394 17583 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: should be utterly trivial for Writer < 1356223400 736516 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :since you can implement Writer w a -> a < 1356224014 834997 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wot < 1356224017 749066 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Generic word length does not define a method for the cons class." < 1356224109 631527 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1356224208 533769 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :IN: scratchpad [ { 1 2 3 } mamb { 2 4 6 } mamb + 1array ] areset . < 1356224208 717512 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :{ 3 5 7 4 6 8 5 7 9 } < 1356224236 560282 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's this < 1356224249 268436 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mamb bamb bo bamb < 1356224258 507917 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mamb working the way I want it to with the list monad < 1356224300 921239 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-2-99-82-172.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that just (+) <$> [1,2,3] <*> [2,4,6]? < 1356224311 516960 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-2-99-82-172.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But in a weird language I know not of < 1356224330 428011 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's try join < 1356224416 918145 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :IN: scratchpad [ { { 1 2 } { 3 4 } { 5 6 } } mamb mamb 1array ] areset . < 1356224417 102486 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :{ 1 2 3 4 5 6 } < 1356224459 39456 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-2-99-82-172.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Success? < 1356224470 705669 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that Joy or Factor or something? < 1356224478 159882 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Factor < 1356224545 221020 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that should be in the /topic < 1356224555 478775 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :$SGEO_LANGUAGE < 1356224571 691738 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but where else would i learn about omphaloskepsis < 1356224613 757667 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-2-99-82-172.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goodnight! < 1356224616 452894 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-2-99-82-172.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1356224664 346087 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't write a with-monad < 1356224672 969829 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because the list monad in Factor is too broken for that < 1356224920 292627 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The next time I hear about someone doing a "straight translation" of monads from Haskell to another language, I will slap them < 1356224970 842160 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :something about mamb < 1356225175 509239 :nooga!~nooga@86-63-81-108.sta.asta-net.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1356225592 109385 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This thing is acting a bit like do notation except possibly nicer < 1356225593 481975 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1356225622 608664 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In a more applicative language it might be nicer? < 1356225704 745807 :nooga!~nooga@86-63-81-108.sta.asta-net.com.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1356225752 61112 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, reader monad test ? < 1356225756 533995 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are you even talking about < 1356225790 235948 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(im back hi) < 1356225796 155306 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. < 1356225798 921078 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :17:04:24 I can't write a with-monad < 1356225799 159013 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :17:04:32 Because the list monad in Factor is too broken for that < 1356225799 342729 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :17:08:40 The next time I hear about someone doing a "straight translation" of monads from Haskell to another language, I will slap them < 1356225802 133726 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does this mean < 1356225802 940302 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also < 1356225806 635148 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :17:19:52 This thing is acting a bit like do notation except possibly nicer < 1356225809 645534 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :17:19:53 I think < 1356225812 209290 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :17:20:22 In a more applicative language it might be nicer? < 1356225814 639910 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that < 1356225817 638101 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-54-224.sta.asta-net.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1356225831 693229 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just looks like idiom brackets but noisier to me < 1356225844 505231 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not convinced it is possible to represent join with this notatoin < 1356225850 614090 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I guess he di dthat < 1356225852 389670 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*did that < 1356225860 103859 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :IN: scratchpad [ ask mamb 15 + reader-monad return ] areset 5 run-reader . < 1356225860 287867 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :20 < 1356225915 573296 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :???? < 1356226027 271442 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://paste.factorcode.org/paste?id=2821 < 1356226055 545134 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, whoops, prettyprint's not needed in there < 1356226057 74019 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :could you explain what these things mean < 1356226060 742164 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :& what they are doing < 1356226080 455723 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :areset and ashift are just me making delimited continuation operators that work the way I want them to < 1356226103 737291 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Using a dynamically-scoped variable rather than actually passing quotations around on the stack < 1356226142 913259 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what is mamb < 1356226170 12225 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not a "factor guy" i can't look at this and immediately see what it means < 1356226184 679618 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(define (mamb ma) (shift k (bind ma k))) < 1356226188 345784 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :^^Scheme < 1356226298 904841 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mamb calls bind with its argument and the current continuation < 1356226308 574230 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes i know but what is mamb supposed to do conceptually... < 1356226324 249060 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t \ma -> Cont (\k -> (ma >>= k)) < 1356226325 501907 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: data constructor `Cont' < 1356226325 685848 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Perhaps you meant one of these: < 1356226325 685932 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : `Const' (imported from Control.Applicative), < 1356226329 262103 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t \ma -> cont (\k -> (ma >>= k)) < 1356226330 474640 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Monad m => m a -> Cont (m b) a < 1356226357 329017 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t let wtf ma = cont (\k -> (ma >>= k)) in (+) <$> wtf [1, 2, 3] <*> wtf [4, 5, 6] < 1356226358 529757 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Num b => ContT [b1] Identity b < 1356226375 258139 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t let wtf ma = cont (\k -> (ma >>= k)) in evalCont $ (+) <$> wtf [1, 2, 3] <*> wtf [4, 5, 6] < 1356226376 469279 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `evalCont' < 1356226381 773038 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t let wtf ma = cont (\k -> (ma >>= k)) in flip runCont ?f $ (+) <$> wtf [1, 2, 3] <*> wtf [4, 5, 6] < 1356226383 182705 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(?f::a -> [b], Num a) => [b] < 1356226388 826332 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let wtf ma = cont (\k -> (ma >>= k)) in flip runCont return $ (+) <$> wtf [1, 2, 3] <*> wtf [4, 5, 6] < 1356226390 131559 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Terminated < 1356226394 233246 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm < 1356226415 5885 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where can I read up on what this mamb/amb thing is? < 1356226415 190731 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let wtf ma = cont (\k -> (ma >>= k)) in flip runCont return $ (+) <$> wtf [1, 2, 3] <*> wtf [4, 5, 6] < 1356226416 646690 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [5,6,7,6,7,8,7,8,9] < 1356226422 762767 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (+) <$> [1,2,3] <*> [4,5,6] < 1356226424 194379 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [5,6,7,6,7,8,7,8,9] < 1356226433 149251 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: tada, was that really so hard you couldn't have done it originally < 1356226435 142541 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: nobody knows what mamb is, amb is well-documented < 1356226448 731742 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know what mamb is now < 1356226492 415790 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: anyway see http://blog.sigfpe.com/2008/12/mother-of-all-monads.html < 1356226497 320588 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that <$> and <*> for the wtf usage is only necessary because you need to use the Cont monad along with <$> and <*> to get shift and reset < 1356226513 316038 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: your mamb is exactly i < 1356226513 800955 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1356226523 111661 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't understand my point at all < 1356226529 148634 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, isn't that exactly what I am doing? Taking nice syntax for the Cont monad and turning it into nice syntax for all monads < 1356226539 839110 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice syntax for the Cont monad = nice syntax for all monads < 1356226541 428328 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's equivalent < 1356226552 710142 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what you've done is reinvent idiom brackets, which work for Cont too < 1356226618 77946 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather < 1356226620 632890 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"reverse idiom brackets" < 1356226623 747935 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :where you mark the impure expressions < 1356226628 690431 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the translation is basically the same < 1356226655 453711 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(| f x y z |) = f <$> x' <*> y' <*> z' where (~x)' = x; y' = pure y < 1356226673 453329 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1356226677 862277 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you get join too I guess but it's kind of freaky < 1356226689 350234 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let wtf ma = cont (\k -> (ma >>= k)) in wtf (wtf [1,2,3]) < 1356226690 752210 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (GHC.Show.Show < 1356226690 936616 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : (Control.Monad.Trans.Con... < 1356226692 728231 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1356226719 850331 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let wtf ma = cont (\k -> (ma >>= k)) in wtf [1,2,3] >>= twf < 1356226720 916437 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let wtf ma = cont (\k -> (ma >>= k)) in wtf [1,2,3] >>= wtf < 1356226721 336991 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: `twf' < 1356226721 521832 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Perhaps you meant `wtf' (line 1) < 1356226722 255944 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (GHC.Num.Num [b0]) < 1356226722 439988 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use of `e_1123' < 1356226722 440169 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Possi... < 1356226724 6059 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t let wtf ma = cont (\k -> (ma >>= k)) in wtf [1,2,3] >>= wtf < 1356226725 195447 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Num [b] => ContT [b1] Identity b < 1356226729 798771 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t let wtf ma = cont (\k -> (ma >>= k)) in wtf [1,2,3] < 1356226730 990160 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Num a => Cont [b] a < 1356226743 493172 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t let wtf ma = cont (\k -> (ma >>= k)) in wtf (wtf [[1,2],[3]]) < 1356226744 727969 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Num t => Cont (ContT [b1] Identity b) [t] < 1356226753 928120 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t let wtf ma = cont (\k -> (ma >>= k)) in wtf [[1,2],[3]] >>= wtf < 1356226755 107250 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Num b => ContT [b1] Identity b < 1356226763 220385 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let wtf ma = cont (\k -> (ma >>= k)) in runCont (wtf [[1,2],[3]] >>= wtf) id < 1356226764 647459 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (GHC.Num.Num [b0]) < 1356226764 831468 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use of `e_1123' < 1356226764 831590 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Possi... < 1356226771 218838 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1356226772 696103 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let wtf ma = cont (\k -> (ma >>= k)) in runCont (wtf [[1,2],[3]] >>= wtf) return < 1356226774 63074 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [1,2,3] < 1356226775 714574 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :duh < 1356226778 194564 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1356226797 183422 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: anyway this sounds kind of awful in practice < 1356226811 147464 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :having to write putStrLn (foo (foo getLine)) everywhere < 1356226816 286914 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you should take a look at eff and frank < 1356227829 970521 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :When you say frank I keep thinking that units calculation thingy < 1356227840 883458 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Cont x) is like (Codensity (Const x)) so they are Kan extensions. As they said, everything is Kan extensions. < 1356227846 138162 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's frink < 1356228110 730360 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i bet a blog post complaining about ");});});" syntax in JavaScript and comparing it unfavorably to Lisp would get approximately one billion comments on hacker news < 1356228158 504913 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but at what cost? your very soul, kmc! < 1356228162 605897 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly < 1356228164 546319 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it also talked about how sexism in geek circles didn't exist it would get at least 2 billion < 1356228167 766734 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why i'm not going to do it < 1356228183 427556 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i thought javascript had semicolon removal rules < 1356228206 425188 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fiora: straight white programmers with self-diagnosed aspbergers are the *real* persecuted minority! < 1356228219 286264 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wow I still have this thing bookmarked I saw < 1356228221 767675 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://us2.campaign-archive1.com/?u=193b767bbb3b0eb0d949d5924&id=0c3a567f95&e=5603c292b3 < 1356228230 446819 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would think that the prospect of getting a billion comments on hacker news is enough motivation to not do it < 1356228234 869571 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: You might be correct. Maybe... < 1356228237 543861 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :A Story About Sexism in Tech Filled With Sexist Comments Denying Sexism in Tech < 1356228247 41491 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa, it's like i'm really reading it < 1356228252 29078 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I -know= < 1356228254 807975 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's perfect < 1356228265 548046 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: it does, but omitting the semicolons is super tacky < 1356228279 501230 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :«Startup Celebrity says, "Bold statement, out of context"» is "Startup Celebrity" a real thing :( < 1356228286 178485 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or anyway JSLint will complain about it < 1356228288 740892 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: yeah well so's lisp ohhhhh < 1356228293 981970 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose someone like zuck counts? < 1356228300 639056 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :JavaScript semicolon removal rules might be the worst part < 1356228304 469438 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"How I Left My Jobs as a Consultant to Found a Startup" < 1356228306 321209 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Douglas Crockford is kinda crazy and super opinionated about minor syntax < 1356228333 936501 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fiora: i cried the day I saw someone on HN list Zuckerberg in the same list as RMS, Donald Knuth, John Carmak, and Linus Torvalds < 1356228361 107884 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, did they really? rad < 1356228377 589896 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :How I Left My Job At A Startup Providing Services to Startups to Join a Startup Providing Services to Startups Providing Services to Startups < 1356228389 689093 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're not working for at least a startup³ then you're just a MONKEY IN A CAGE man < 1356228399 5252 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think HN's definition of celebrity involves making a lot of money and flipping a worthless startup for billions of dollars to some large company < 1356228419 801258 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fiora: thanks for the link, this is hilariou < 1356228433 451599 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i started reading HN for technical posts and then i realized that it was mostly startup crud i didn't care about < 1356228444 473387 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: let me know if you find a good venue for technical posts < 1356228450 843023 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I read it a looong time ago but it really seemed to stop posting the interesting things < 1356228457 117004 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: well, i read l-t-u but i don't think that's quite the same < 1356228457 300867 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think some bayesian filtering on HN might be the way to go < 1356228465 286267 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most technical posts are also worthless crud not worth caring about < 1356228468 97441 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :nowadays whenever I look it's like a 5% chance I find anything technical, otherwise it's all startup drama stuff < 1356228475 876815 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want to write a program which will feed me HN posts at a constant slow rate and I can flag them as shitty < 1356228478 293676 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and oh god the comments are horrid < 1356228492 495129 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: yes, but crud about startups not worth caring about transcends standard crud. < 1356228541 544133 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"How I remapped my capslock key to be both ESC and Ctrl" yessssssssss < 1356228545 265527 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should do that < 1356228547 85124 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember talking to someone at one point who actually told me she much preferred reddit /prog/, which says something about HN <_> < 1356228548 738350 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a thing < 1356228555 682206 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks for underlining your insight < 1356228558 968782 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i ragequit /r/programming a while ago < 1356228583 928283 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/coding seems reasonably high quality but has like 12 posts a month < 1356228591 280908 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :underlines are important, man. important < 1356228611 426610 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: "therefore" hth < 1356228614 86187 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really wish there was a good place for just, cool interesting sciency technology things < 1356228626 352375 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Are these glasses useful while coding, or is this a pseudo-science?" < 1356228628 374641 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :without startup stuff, without neckbeards arguing about linux distros, without 500 sexist comments on everything < 1356228641 634344 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i basically count on my friends / aquaintances talking about interesting posts online < 1356228660 489631 :c00kiemon5ter!~c00kiemon@foss-aueb/coder/c00kiemon5ter PRIVMSG #esoteric :i count on you < 1356228666 51646 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously what we need is something that's exactly like word of mouth, but with a better logo < 1356228670 6108 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just because something is not science, does not necessarily make it pseudoscience. < 1356228685 498045 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow what an interesting channel today < 1356228689 338441 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i should get on twitter and follow some people on twitter < 1356228704 760618 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm on Twitter < 1356228712 289497 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should hook up my Tumblr to Twitter < 1356228724 33750 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i,i http://jerkcity.com/_jerkcity4960.html < 1356228731 730142 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get some things from tumblr at least < 1356228736 238787 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, r/prog has a post on "implementing dependent type theory, part I" so that works < 1356228738 117463 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I follow people who post lots of astrophysicsy and astronomy stuff < 1356228764 411173 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :christinetheastrophysicist, astrotastic, astronemma, etc < 1356228829 312606 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Why Go Can't Scale Past 2 Billion Users < 1356228831 208644 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is good < 1356228842 617378 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Voyager Season One Has Left Cable Syndication < 1356228844 64035 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :really good < 1356229217 622138 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-54-224.sta.asta-net.com.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1356229322 910132 :augur!~augur@c-69-140-133-153.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1356229495 775237 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, which is likely to be easier for me to understand first, eff or frank? < 1356229523 854825 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea < 1356229550 318007 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :see https://personal.cis.strath.ac.uk/conor.mcbride/pub/Frank/test.fk < 1356229554 279363 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or https://personal.cis.strath.ac.uk/conor.mcbride/pub/Frank/TFM.pdf < 1356229564 407763 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or < 1356229569 672019 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://math.andrej.com/2010/09/27/programming-with-effects-ii-introducing-eff/ < 1356229609 932876 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That post says that eff has changed considerably < 1356229663 577459 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :eep that :: confused me for a second < 1356229675 778929 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's almost like Haskell is the US of the functional world < 1356229694 103454 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In that it uses :: for types and : for con, where everyone else uses : for types and :: for con < 1356229697 337756 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha < 1356229698 212868 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/con/cons/g < 1356229698 510107 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1356229698 730534 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the hell does that me- oh < 1356229716 849789 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :HASKELL #1 FUCK YEAH FREEDOM < 1356229744 551026 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's taken from Miranda. < 1356229766 595195 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought it was going to be some convoluted political metaphor. java is china, or something. and DEBT is crosshatched everywhere < 1356229781 15518 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Haskell 98 report is divinely inspired and is a perfect foundation for civilization < 1356229798 61735 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the pure city on the hill < 1356229798 833896 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can pry my monomorphism restriction from my cold dead hands < 1356229845 689373 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell 2010 followers are mormons? < 1356229854 737619 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: uh pretty sure you mean the haskell 1.4 report < 1356229857 181309 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :canadians < 1356229878 950617 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: that can be the articles of confederation. < 1356230192 246418 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :x.lookup() + x.lookup() < 1356230203 173326 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume that that's the implicit sequencing that it's warning about/ < 1356230380 437429 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, monqy Fiora update < 1356230418 690579 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: update < 1356230443 137200 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Your new job is to tell me when GitHub comes back up. < 1356230473 20080 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliot: update < 1356230500 191081 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1356230540 953141 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1356230671 627077 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I guess I should read the theory stuff too? < 1356230679 942684 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then consider how to implement this in some language < 1356230711 27525 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just read the frank stuff < 1356230719 982175 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :implementation is basically trivial in terms of a free monad < 1356230808 108108 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are you implementing? < 1356230810 527873 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea what a free monad is < 1356230826 76197 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Free f a = Return a | Free (f (Free f a)) < 1356230828 345914 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Free f x = Pure x | Free (f (Free f x)); < 1356230849 158630 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cf. http://hackage.haskell.org/package/free, http://hackage.haskell.org/package/operational (equivalent) < 1356230858 724480 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Free f a = (a, f (a, f (a, f (... < 1356230862 566188 :c00kiemon5ter!~c00kiemon@foss-aueb/coder/c00kiemon5ter PRIVMSG #esoteric :github.. < 1356230875 74818 :c00kiemon5ter!~c00kiemon@foss-aueb/coder/c00kiemon5ter PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think I'll switch to bitbucket for good < 1356230889 97761 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, it lets you use any type constructor in a monadic way somehow? < 1356230927 491854 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then join (Free x) = Free (join <$> x); I think < 1356230988 895126 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait. < 1356230989 784625 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, is this effects stuff in eff just a nicer way to define a monad? < 1356230991 46825 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's Cofree < 1356230997 601184 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why did I write Cofree. :-( < 1356231008 390200 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I don't understand what you mean by that. < 1356231009 558719 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Free f a = Either a (f (Either a (f (Either a (f ... < 1356231020 261798 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It requires f to be a functor, but you can also use the right and left Yoneda < 1356231033 391470 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is unsure if the "magical" choice thing that always selects te value that leads to the lowest result is a monad < 1356231048 745701 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thinks it is < 1356231056 106141 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I see how to do it as a monad < 1356231070 413916 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, I mean, by defining bind < 1356231141 852783 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :For example if you have data X :: * -> * where { GetChar :: X Char; PutChar :: Char -> X (); }; and then you can make (Free (CoYoneda X)) < 1356231201 108864 :augur!~augur@c-69-140-133-153.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1356231223 794139 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Typo < 1356231225 50546 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Eff has a builting effect io" < 1356231269 630471 :augur!~augur@c-69-140-133-153.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1356231320 839735 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it is another use of GADT < 1356231599 497503 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to be patient and try to understand the math < 1356231650 291898 :WeThePeople!~WeThePeop@63.91.27.121 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1356233013 40141 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't quite understand this notation fi:Ani→A < 1356233033 254892 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I gather that f is a function, but what does A^n_i -> A mean? < 1356233034 555715 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :whats the context < 1356233039 825704 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://math.andrej.com/2010/09/27/programming-with-effects-i-theory/ < 1356233046 590095 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://twitter.com/HackerNewsTips < 1356233054 91272 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"An algebra (A,f1,…,fk) is a set A together with maps fi:Ani→A for i=1,…,k, called the operations. " < 1356233088 581188 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I guess that f_i can take a number of arguments? < 1356233109 802567 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A number of arguments fixed for each individual f_i? < 1356233149 813215 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :f_i is a function from A^{n_i} to A. depending on what n_i is, A^{n_i} is either the set of tuples of n_i A's, or functions from the set n_i to A < 1356233177 873652 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The former, I think < 1356233222 538458 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if n_i is a number you can pretend it means finite set with that many elements and then it's ~"the same thing" < 1356233257 424170 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1356233278 208145 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The person is now doing arities that are arbitrary sets < 1356233295 582777 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1356233793 292309 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION decides to just skip that post and look at Frank < 1356233809 136312 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1356233867 976957 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://personal.cis.strath.ac.uk/conor.mcbride/pub/Frank/test.fk < 1356233889 555910 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes i know what frank is < 1356233988 7202 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nat + Nat [] Nat < 1356233995 578268 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1356233996 672064 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't understand that example < 1356234002 93409 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's not to understand about it < 1356234021 183622 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, is it a type declaration? < 1356234028 444520 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should read the notes < 1356234039 880936 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Here are some perfectly ordinary functions." < 1356234051 313804 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, after that < 1356234143 628501 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The dull function is rather ... dull < 1356234151 818060 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1356234173 800851 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1356234215 543387 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1356234562 59785 :augur!~augur@c-69-140-133-153.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1356234870 225600 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trying to be sure I understand the precedence here < 1356234872 325559 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this < 1356234874 48784 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :state _ [set s ? k] = state s ? k () < 1356234875 784088 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The same as < 1356234881 272861 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :state _ [set s ? k] = state (s ? k ()) < 1356234897 720810 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm, wait, that doesn't work... < 1356234901 700799 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I'm very confused < 1356234921 321033 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi im back whats up < 1356235020 347426 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That state function < 1356235035 692517 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In that branch, it's calling state again, right? But with what arguments? < 1356235037 404866 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok i'll try & explain it < 1356235043 509646 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's (state s) ? k () < 1356235050 469445 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok elliott explains it < 1356235072 310554 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which you can think of as state s (? (k ()) < 1356235076 628887 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1356235080 644379 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, I can? < 1356235144 368080 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was wondering if it was maybe (state s) ? (k ()) < 1356235162 469592 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I take it it's not, though < 1356235215 357117 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would reading the PDF be easier? < 1356235346 839184 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: state describes how to run a stateful request. if your request is to set the state to s & your continuation is k, you recursively do stuff with your state being s (the thing you set your state to) and whatever you get when you pass unit to your continuation < 1356235473 610495 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: what in particular about that doesn't make sense? < 1356235541 610577 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :& i forget if the pdf is "easier" or not < 1356235554 206059 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there's nothing challenging about test.fk..... < 1356235614 663434 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess what the ? operation does, exactly < 1356235619 616461 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why isn't it just k () < 1356235712 357921 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :turns the stateful computation into its "interpretation" < 1356235720 295056 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :state s (k ()) would execute k () < 1356235726 19062 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is totally not what you want < 1356235735 132530 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because, remember, the whole point of this is that you (Sgeo) want applicative effects < 1356235743 330388 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s.t. you can write f (g x) (h x) where g and h are effectful < 1356235752 700694 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so interpreter ? action calls interpreter with the [] stuff < 1356235766 105091 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yes ? is a binary operator here < 1356235794 560550 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, ok < 1356235888 240683 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Quit: Arc_Koen < 1356236596 294929 :nys!~nysnamovo@blk-142-60-139.eastlink.ca QUIT :Quit: quit < 1356237014 362444 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, are you the person who asked to be on a GitHub back up list? < 1356237031 144694 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Thanks! < 1356237036 722246 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now please take me *off* the GitHub list. < 1356238049 173069 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1356238721 717407 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might end up looking at both the PDF and the example thing < 1356238736 822268 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to learn best by reading as many different documentation sources as possible < 1356239110 374009 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I think I get the template thing now < 1356239918 697602 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The PDF didn't really explain much < 1356240284 584120 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The fifty moves rule, threefold repetition rule, and perpetual check rule, do not necessarily require all three; either one of the first two will do. < 1356240367 463706 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although having all three does sometimes change things, the game would work without. < 1356240596 853838 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Lugging around a SOAP API in 2012? Replace all occurrences of "SOAP" with "Hand Crafted Vintage XML", and lure in the Portland tech scene.' < 1356240620 239364 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :'The SaaS field is getting very overcrowded. Consider a Software as a Faustian Bargain approach to your product instead.' < 1356240652 356803 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: hey, you can't ask to be off the list < 1356240654 446853 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :never works for anyone else < 1356240703 788023 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t either LEft < 1356240705 20986 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: data constructor `LEft' < 1356240705 205711 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Perhaps you meant `Left' (imported from Data.Either) < 1356240705 696777 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t either Left < 1356240706 873954 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(b -> Either a b1) -> Either a b -> Either a b1 < 1356240728 364071 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t either Left (?f :: s -> Either t a) < 1356240729 704445 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Unbound implicit parameter (?f::s -> Either t a1) < 1356240729 889522 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use of implicit parameter `?f' < 1356240729 889705 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : In the second argument of `either', namely < 1356240737 966364 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t \f -> either Left (f :: s -> Either t a) < 1356240739 187643 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match type `t' with `s -> Either t1 a1' < 1356240739 371739 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : `t' is a rigid type variable bound by < 1356240739 371916 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : the inferred type of it :: t -> Either a b -> Either a b1 < 1356240741 540637 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :???? < 1356240742 796053 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Come on. < 1356240748 541331 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t \(f :: s -> Either t a) -> either Left f < 1356240749 822201 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(s -> Either t a) -> Either t s -> Either t a < 1356241355 641035 :ogrom!~del@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1356242154 62989 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thinks that eff is more understandable < 1356244273 382207 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this data types OK? data Move = Resign | Draw | Castle CastlingSide | Move Square Square Piece deriving (Eq, Ord, Read, Show); type NAG = Word8; data AnnMove = AnnMove { annMove :: Move, annNAG :: NAG, annVar :: MoveList, annText :: String } deriving (Eq, Read, Show); type MoveList = [AnnMove]; < 1356244539 724958 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chess is overcomplicated < 1356244854 113111 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Ilyumzhinov claims to have been abducted from his Moscow apartment, in 1997, by extraterrestrials, who gave him a tour of the galaxy and taught him that chess came from outer space." < 1356244915 607407 :augur!~augur@c-69-140-133-153.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1356244949 4424 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's made-up nonsense. Everyone knows it was go. < 1356245023 277985 :WeThePeople!~WeThePeop@63.91.27.121 JOIN :#esoteric < 1356245039 603357 :WeThePeople!~WeThePeop@63.91.27.121 QUIT :Changing host < 1356245039 826051 :WeThePeople!~WeThePeop@unaffiliated/wethepeople JOIN :#esoteric < 1356245214 555761 :Nisstyre-laptop!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1356245264 388957 :augur!~augur@c-69-140-133-153.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1356245876 841444 :Nisstyre-laptop!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre JOIN :#esoteric < 1356245879 354861 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it was go, if any of them came from outer space, which it probably didn't. Is this like a counterfactual question? < 1356247610 909674 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I read that in one chess tournament, a player complained that the food given to his opponent was used as a code to give advice on what move to play. < 1356247635 243011 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but... it's not a hidden information game anyway. < 1356247677 351517 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know. < 1356247723 143155 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nevertheless, you are not supposed to have advice from other players in nearly any tournament of any game, and time trouble can get in the way of things too. < 1356247756 37138 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just can't imagine mere advice being worth such an esoteric system. < 1356247777 132833 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is < 1356247778 671007 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if it is true, but apparently someone complained about that. < 1356247788 73396 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was an incident where a player was found cheating by hearing coughs from someone in the audience < 1356247797 685466 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :goddamn. < 1356247797 869361 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the coughing person was hooked up to a chess engine that was analyzing the game board < 1356247803 612967 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what. < 1356247810 534386 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's some oceans eleven shit < 1356247813 640110 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was also a guy who went to the bathroom and used some hidden device to try to communicate < 1356247890 980410 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually (not knowing of this incident) once tried to cheat on a multiple-choice section of an exam by coughing. < 1356247962 268096 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@cust-101.ktknet.cz QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1356248020 709332 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Topalov#Kramnik.E2.80.93Topalov_match_controversy < 1356248080 615472 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"During the tournament at Subroto Park, Umakant Sharma was caught receiving instructions from an accomplice using a chess computer via a Bluetooth-enabled device which had been sewn into his cap.[14][15] His accomplices were outside the building, and were relaying moves from a computer simulation." omg < 1356248093 208791 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :" Officials became suspicious after Sharma had made unusually large gains in rating points during the previous 18 months, even qualifying for the national championship.[15] Umakant began the year with an average rating of 1933, and in 64 games gained over 500 points to attain a rating of 2484. Officials received multiple written complaints alleging that Umakant's moves were in exactly the same sequence suggested by the chess computer < 1356248102 238157 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :" Eventually, in the seventh round of the tournament, Indian Air Force officials searched the players on the top eight boards with a metal detector " < 1356248120 881965 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i... how much money is at stake here < 1356248143 639302 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :" Their plan involved one player, Cyril Marzolo, following the tournament at home and using the computer program to decide the best moves. He would send the moves by SMS to another player, Arnaud Hauchard, who would then stand or sit at various tables as a signal to the player, Sebastian Feller, to make a certain move." < 1356248150 90180 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(FIDE olympiad tournament 2010) < 1356248157 948381 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt that people would cheat at Arimaa or Go like that. Mostly because computers still aren't that great at those games < 1356248190 643845 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also because less people care about those games. here in eastern europe, anyway < 1356248226 510529 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@188.134.41.172 JOIN :#esoteric < 1356248248 707017 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a boring reason for there to be fewer cheaters < 1356248253 601763 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@fluttershy.pl QUIT :Excess Flood < 1356248257 36178 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Xom is bored. < 1356248261 144252 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the idea of someone cheatingly getting advice from a Go program, and it being shitty advice, is pretty funny though. < 1356248272 305714 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's just a really popular sport (relatively?) so like it's more common that it's bigger news I guess < 1356248289 590019 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION throws butterflies at Sgeo  < 1356248303 580019 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how the hell do you throw a butterfly? < 1356248328 661044 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, crawl reference ~_~ < 1356248360 93027 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fiora, have you ever watched a League of Legends video? Those get narrated as though it's a sport < 1356248361 381079 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No joke < 1356248383 84851 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :A sufficiently powerful computer would be able to solve all of these games. < 1356248384 378708 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used to watch a lot of starcraft casts < 1356248394 188615 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :However I don't know if the universe has such a capacity or not. < 1356248441 686827 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm kinda surprised so many people are cheating by just plugging in the moves from a computer. that's so lazy even @_@ < 1356248442 61712 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :listening to league of legends videos is quite saddening. < 1356248445 725318 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :they could at least do some centauring < 1356248451 485484 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :centaur...? < 1356248467 889678 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :human-computer collaboration, where you use the computer as an exploratory tool combined with human thought < 1356248472 407566 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you mean having a chess grandmaster dress up as a horse and play as a horse < 1356248475 356062 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. < 1356248480 605619 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@fluttershy.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1356248486 634173 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kasparov_versus_the_World like this game (since they allowed computer usage) was basically a massive centaur-fest < 1356248487 419357 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, well. human interface is hard, man. < 1356248506 118219 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :each side spending days throwing things into computers and analyzing lines of moves 20 or 30 long and doing all kinds of crazy things < 1356248511 295452 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kasparov wrote a whole book on it too, it was cool < 1356248521 715133 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is your copy autographed < 1356248524 829461 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :<_<; < 1356248529 18208 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it isn't < 1356248530 105695 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1356248538 100037 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not that much of a fangirl okay < 1356248539 745204 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :not QUITE that much < 1356248553 602205 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, isn't kasparov kind of a nutty guy < 1356248560 368672 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :he is kinda nutty, yeah < 1356248564 148966 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :his chess books and writing are good though < 1356248588 278081 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :When playing chess by mail, it is sometimes allowed to take advice from other people and computers. < 1356248624 461174 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fiora: Have any of the people in that game programmed the computers they used? < 1356248638 967282 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike, how are LoL videos saddening? < 1356248642 628021 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that big one? given the World was like tens of thousands of people working together probably yes? XD < 1356248650 893716 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd imagine there were at least some chess AI programmers in that bunch < 1356248666 268445 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kasparov was using Deep Junior < 1356248669 533758 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, yes I guess you are probably correct. < 1356248686 707051 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: the level of taking things seriously involved. it's pretty alien to me. < 1356248701 43949 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1356248719 323275 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :like you said, they treat it very much as a sport. < 1356248766 757884 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It kind of scares me away a bit from wanting to try it. Since it's a team game, I'd be afraid of my teammates getting mad at me for my incompetence < 1356248771 921672 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried watching a dota game broadcast thing once, maybe it was dota 2 < 1356248772 190188 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i < 1356248783 761557 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though I had played some dota it was really hard to keep track of because there were 10 players involved doing all kinds of different things < 1356248788 577629 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, my current computer can't handle it, so there's that < 1356248795 788159 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it was really confusing < 1356248810 96634 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas starcraft was 1v1 < 1356248820 729340 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :With sufficient time you could analyze it manually, but the computer is much faster. < 1356248827 876887 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also seems like the kind of game where people complain about things being nerfed or balanced or whatever constantly. Which is pretty annoying. I can barely handle en passant. < 1356248843 268613 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: bishops are op . nerf bishops < 1356248848 464128 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why are you barely handle en passant? < 1356248849 533752 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :rooks need a boost. < 1356248867 84183 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: making a bit of a joke about the origins of that particular rule. < 1356248892 278900 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fiora: There are many chess variants with many different kind of pieces < 1356248951 99923 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I know there's one with um... an archbishop? which is like this knight+bishop thing I think < 1356248972 580869 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archbishop_(chess) < 1356248973 115684 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes; and the knight+rook is sometimes called chancellor. < 1356248987 520356 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are there any chess variants with a "pope" piece? And, say, papal elections, or a college of cardinals. < 1356248991 664386 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1356248997 835493 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could go for capturing some antipopes. < 1356249003 825509 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohhh, they call chess variant pieces "fairy chess pieces" < 1356249012 859107 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then there's bughouse chess which I remember people playing in college < 1356249013 818416 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: Yes, I think in some games, the king which has bishop moves in addition, is called the pope. < 1356249017 838124 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which was kind of terrifyingly intimidating < 1356249026 729286 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ironically, fairies actually just play Scrabble < 1356249030 82301 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like chess960, that one's a fun variant though < 1356249035 647909 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: i see. weird < 1356249066 356169 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fiora: is that one of the random ones? < 1356249070 14235 :Nisstyre-laptop!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1356249088 880835 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the random one bobby fischer came up with that has 960 possible starting positions < 1356249094 787822 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that you have to play without opening books < 1356249110 440061 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it makes things really fun and screwy and is great for people like me who can't remember opening books < 1356249114 633258 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :<_<;;; < 1356249192 966957 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also like it the game which involves some random information, although what I like best is which has partially hidden information, as well as some random chance, but mostly involving skill. < 1356249257 742552 :Nisstyre-laptop!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre JOIN :#esoteric < 1356249344 466330 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: computers are good at go now < 1356249346 446006 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://blog.printf.net/articles/2012/02/23/computers-are-very-good-at-the-game-of-go/ < 1356249402 768143 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :aw man. i'm running out of options for confusing malignant AIs. < 1356249466 55560 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :still pretty far behind chess though < 1356249469 451391 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :considerig um rybka < 1356249470 560800 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.gokgs.com/servlet/graph/zen19-en_US.png hot damn! < 1356249472 530049 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/Portal_3d66bd_2045584.jpg < 1356249523 719166 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :though there's now houdini too which is all kinds of terrifying < 1356249549 13175 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :AIs are notoriously bad at nontraditional set theory < 1356249585 956476 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWdMqvGMxF4 this is a fun game if I remember right < 1356249599 144234 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :houdini sacrifices three pawns for no apparent advantage whatsoever and then wins dozens of moves later < 1356249602 76542 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think in some kinds of set theory, the set of all sets does contain itself. In other kinds, it is not a meaningful statement. I think. < 1356249629 902531 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This makes me sad because while I wasn’t foolish enough to believe that humans would always be better at Go than computers, I did think that the process of making a computer that is very good at Go might be equivalent to the process of acquiring a powerful understanding of how human cognition works;" aww. < 1356249634 933140 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fiora: Do you have the PGN of the game you are refering to? < 1356249644 641149 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the About has a pgn I think < 1356249664 967233 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: usually you have a "class" of all sets instead, but it varies. in ZFC it's not a meaningful statement because you can't define a set of all sets. so, yes < 1356249666 935389 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :gosh now I want to go back and watch more of kingscrusher videos. he's fun < 1356249688 458974 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice name. < 1356249737 124630 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the game made him really happy because a reason a lot of chess people disliked computers is they seemed to demonstrate that a lot of wonderful sacrifices, gambits, and so on were unsound given enough analysis < 1356249738 992252 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :m, i think the author of this article may be slightly underestimating how interesting you can make writing a sudoku solver < 1356249751 71358 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but this was a game between two of the top level computers where one of them pulls off gambits and then wins < 1356249752 462500 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: Well, I think that if you have a sufficiently powerful computer, it can solve the game and win perfectly; no undertsanding of human cognition or of human anything is required. However, I don't think any computer is that powerful and I am also unsure if the universe has the capacity for such a computer. < 1356249784 698714 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :non well founded set theory is the kind where sets can contain themselves < 1356249811 526396 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockhead_(computer_system) < 1356249831 866147 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fiora: Were they two separate computers or two programs running on the same computer? < 1356249843 286956 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :two separate computers but I assume with similar power < 1356249906 392998 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: It also mentions the Chinese room; something else I have read about in another book. < 1356249919 72796 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it comes up a lot, yes < 1356249956 389268 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I see the Blockhead thought experiment too now! < 1356249958 499176 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, i'm more interested in intelligence that doesn't take O(fuckoff) space, is all < 1356250191 43006 :WeThePeople!~WeThePeop@unaffiliated/wethepeople QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1356250250 657664 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@fluttershy.pl QUIT :Excess Flood < 1356250370 945568 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@fluttershy.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1356250513 106554 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I read also that, in one chess game, he was playing against someone who always moved the c-pawn on the first move and wanted them to play something different, so they stuck the pawn to c2 so that it won't move. < 1356250911 581559 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :To force them to play something original, like e4? < 1356250984 132662 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't matter what; they just didn't want him to play the same move he always played. < 1356250992 497153 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least, it is what I think. I am unsure. < 1356251786 864978 :carado!~user4539@2a01:e35:8b61:e430:6ef0:49ff:fe73:1fd0 JOIN :#esoteric < 1356253212 533977 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net QUIT :Quit: sleep < 1356254323 88639 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi QUIT : < 1356254894 959433 :nooga!~nooga@86-63-81-108.sta.asta-net.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1356255590 705813 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1356255598 281158 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1356255601 927661 :nooga!~nooga@86-63-81-108.sta.asta-net.com.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1356255712 888448 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1356255713 201738 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-54-224.sta.asta-net.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1356256354 10378 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1356256629 605006 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 JOIN :#esoteric < 1356256768 927435 :rodgort`!~rodgort@li125-242.members.linode.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1356257256 735473 :rodgort!~rodgort@li125-242.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1356259343 709434 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1356260149 334893 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1356260164 644761 :Nisstyre-laptop!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1356260442 588217 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1356260454 491454 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1356261340 989208 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1356261373 708690 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1356261807 497086 :ogrom!~del@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee QUIT :Quit: Left < 1356263526 310399 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1356264735 906870 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1356265492 655904 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-54f97e-153.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1356265930 482809 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-54f97e-153.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1356265966 224017 :mekeor!~user@dslb-092-074-091-111.pools.arcor-ip.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1356267554 580937 :ogrom!~del@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1356269955 806084 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1356269966 780506 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1356270020 621353 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1356270060 607074 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1356273871 939333 :WeThePeople!~WeThePeop@63.91.27.121 JOIN :#esoteric < 1356273888 782045 :WeThePeople!~WeThePeop@63.91.27.121 QUIT :Changing host < 1356273888 966896 :WeThePeople!~WeThePeop@unaffiliated/wethepeople JOIN :#esoteric < 1356274129 834041 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Humans are still better than computers at sokoban < 1356274206 891813 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Humans are still better than computers at getting drunk. < 1356275356 7929 :ogrom!~del@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee QUIT :Quit: Left < 1356275383 866121 :carado!~user4539@2a01:e35:8b61:e430:6ef0:49ff:fe73:1fd0 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1356276059 203074 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@fluttershy.pl QUIT :Excess Flood < 1356276113 317236 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@fluttershy.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1356276392 541688 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@fluttershy.pl QUIT :Excess Flood < 1356276473 716161 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@fluttershy.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1356276710 336762 :WeThePeople!~WeThePeop@unaffiliated/wethepeople QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1356277304 307864 :mekeor!~user@dslb-092-074-091-111.pools.arcor-ip.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1356277916 170315 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-54-224.sta.asta-net.com.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1356278329 179031 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1356278337 162785 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Max SendQ exceeded < 1356278356 161474 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1356278578 636110 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1356278700 532031 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-69-192.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1356278707 235750 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-69-192.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Help < 1356278729 500563 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-69-192.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've messed up my video drivers and now my computer thinks I want an 800x600 screen < 1356278789 623456 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 JOIN :#esoteric < 1356278792 308594 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-69-192.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I have no idea what to dooooo < 1356279109 517138 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :reinstall the drivers? < 1356279109 739217 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. < 1356279242 79459 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-69-192.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I'll give that a go < 1356279338 583582 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-69-192.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In other news, I've updated that Haskell package I made a while back but haven't uploaded it for a reason. < 1356279951 89990 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-69-192.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1356279958 884907 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-54-224.sta.asta-net.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1356280059 938161 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-69-192.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1356280154 840060 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-69-192.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, that worked < 1356280156 163963 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Max SendQ exceeded < 1356280235 327831 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-54-224.sta.asta-net.com.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1356282526 926468 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-69-192.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1356282551 529996 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1356282716 602610 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-69-192.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1356282911 20481 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: hm i haven't personally read that stuff, but if you want to mix delimited continuations and monads you might want to look at filinski's famous proof that pure monads can be implemented with delimited continuations... < 1356282943 250062 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell Sgeo hm i haven't personally read that stuff, but if you want to mix delimited continuations and monads you might want to look at filinski's famous proof that pure monads can be implemented with delimited continuations... < 1356282943 434574 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1356283073 979487 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell Sgeo btw if you start with a _monad transformer_, then amb should be obvious if you use [] on the bottom. < 1356283074 202592 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ping < 1356283074 202782 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1356283074 386752 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pong < 1356283277 978440 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1356283495 745992 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote i bet a blog post complaining about ");});});" syntax in JavaScript and comparing it unfavorably to Lisp would get approximately one billion comments on hacker news but at what cost? your very soul, kmc! < 1356283501 835609 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :883) i bet a blog post complaining about ");});});" syntax in JavaScript and comparing it unfavorably to Lisp would get approximately one billion comments on hacker news but at what cost? your very soul, kmc! < 1356283531 533299 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if those are the first color codes in the quotes database < 1356283535 837489 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I don't really understand monad transformers well enough < 1356283536 22601 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. < 1356283540 935652 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages < 1356283541 120731 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan said 9m 58s ago: hm i haven't personally read that stuff, but if you want to mix delimited continuations and monads you might want to look at filinski's famous proof that pure monads can be < 1356283541 305288 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :implemented with delimited continuations... < 1356283541 305481 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan said 7m 47s ago: btw if you start with a _monad transformer_, then amb should be obvious if you use [] on the bottom. < 1356283631 554250 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> chr 126 < 1356283633 426951 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : '~' < 1356283641 8546 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quotes ^[ -~]*$ < 1356283642 794953 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :1) EgoBot just opened a chat session with me to say "bork bork bork" \ 2) Hmmm... My fingers and tongue seem to be as quick as ever, but my lips have definitely weakened... More practice is in order. \ 3) that's where I got it rocket launch facility gift shop \ 4) GKennethR: he sh < 1356283655 280970 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1356283682 579321 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quotes [^ -~] < 1356283684 283248 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :269) ais523: quick, say something funny something funny hagrea:D can'tä sopt laughitn \ 320) `quote django ​352) django is named after a person? thought it would be a giraffe or something thankfully only one \ 321) `quote django ​352) `quote django ​352) django is named after a person? thought it would be a giraffe or something thankfully only one \ 321) `quote django ​352) django is named after a person? thought it would be a giraffe or something \ 407) `quote django < 1356283793 865721 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's up with the recursive django quotes? < 1356283807 974650 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run quote 320 | hexdump < 1356283809 851223 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :0000000 3233 2930 3c20 7063 6572 7373 7965 203e \ 0000010 7160 6f75 6574 6420 616a 676e 206f 3c20 \ 0000020 6148 6b63 6745 3e6f e220 8b80 3533 2932 \ 0000030 3c20 6c6f 6e73 7265 203e 6a64 6e61 6f67 \ 0000040 6920 2073 616e 656d 2064 6661 6574 2072 \ 0000050 2061 6570 7372 6e6f 203f 3c20 6c6f 6e73 \ 0000060 7265 203e 6874 756f 6867 2074 7469 7720 \ < 1356283826 5928 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm what was that option < 1356283855 317261 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run quote 320 | od -t x1 < 1356283856 918030 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :0000000 33 32 30 29 20 3c 63 70 72 65 73 73 65 79 3e 20 \ 0000020 60 71 75 6f 74 65 20 64 6a 61 6e 67 6f 20 20 3c \ 0000040 48 61 63 6b 45 67 6f 3e 20 e2 80 8b 33 35 32 29 \ 0000060 20 3c 6f 6c 73 6e 65 72 3e 20 64 6a 61 6e 67 6f \ 0000100 20 69 73 20 6e 61 6d 65 64 20 61 66 74 65 72 20 \ 0000120 61 20 70 65 72 73 6f 6e 3f 20 20 3c 6f 6c 73 6e \ 00 < 1356283870 839221 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, that is definitely not what i wanted < 1356283873 896372 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's an 80 8b in there < 1356283876 713555 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run quote 320 | hexdump -c < 1356283878 721062 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :0000000 3 2 0 ) < c p r e s s e y > \ 0000010 ` q u o t e d j a n g o < \ 0000020 H a c k E g o > â 200 213 3 5 2 ) \ 0000030 < o l s n e r > d j a n g o \ 0000040 i s n a m e d a < 1356283901 965592 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that HackEgo's zero-width space that got included < 1356283926 141487 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that may be the zero width space I put into a quote ages ago to troll elliott < 1356283936 211656 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1356283945 671768 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because he was really insisting on two spaces between quotes < 1356283968 262756 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grrrr < 1356283972 690490 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :um it's just after Hackego> < 1356283975 748317 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Closing one Chrome window should NOT quit Chrome < 1356283979 400064 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not between quotes < 1356284003 721588 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1356284008 659948 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(IIRC it's actually just a copy-paste problem.) < 1356284008 844488 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1356284013 329461 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's quoted now, so you can't fix it. < 1356284052 512174 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well it's not really a problem if HackEgo actually said it, is it :P < 1356284059 612448 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :just accurate quoting < 1356284143 173181 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/quote < 1356284144 525291 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​#!/bin/sh \ allquotes | if [ "$1" ]; then \ if expr "$1" + 0 >/dev/null 2>&1; then \ sed "$1q;d" \ else \ grep -P -i -- "$1" \ fi \ else shuf -n 1; fi < 1356284149 990626 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Your daily network usage time limit has been reached" ifconfig wlan0 hw ether "logged in to hotspot". There are *some* good things in this phone. < 1356284156 209409 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/quotes < 1356284157 589031 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​#!/bin/sh \ allquotes | if [ "$1" ]; then \ if expr "$1" + 0 >/dev/null 2>&1; then \ sed "$1q;d" \ else \ grep -P -i -- "$1" \ fi \ else shuf -n 1; fi < 1356284188 917174 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a bit surprised busybox ifconfig managed that, though. < 1356284202 126143 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-69-192.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1356284230 938335 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: it's the sort of thing busybox might need to do, though < 1356284240 411614 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quotes [\000-\037] < 1356284240 595860 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was originally designed as a recovery shell < 1356284242 50314 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :883) i bet a blog post complaining about ");});});" syntax in JavaScript and comparing it unfavorably to Lisp would get approximately one billion comments on hacker news but at what cost? your very soul, kmc! < 1356284250 882335 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay that worked < 1356284268 62814 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and indeed those were the first color codes < 1356284275 390269 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fixing network problems is quote plausible in a recovery shell, especially if the system /normally/ uses network boot < 1356284352 79263 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I suppose. Their ifconfig usage message was only "ifconfig interface [address]", though, which was a bit worrying. Fortunately I managed to recall the syntax. < 1356284372 184921 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, usable usage messages /aren't/ something you need to do busybox's job < 1356284479 801572 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately the uplink on this wifi is really horrible. Takes about two minutes after writing it for an IRC comment to appear. < 1356284488 46155 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Yeah yeah mosh yeah.) < 1356284520 776012 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that total up+down latency? or just up? < 1356284556 43930 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Two minutes was perhaps a bit generous. < 1356284578 385570 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : How I Left My Job At A Startup Providing Services to Startups to Join a Startup Providing Services to Startups Providing Services to Startups <-- startup and inception are synonyms, right? < 1356284669 46233 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whatthefuck < 1356284688 304356 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeofuck < 1356284688 526724 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My mouse cursor just turned into a vertical line with diagonal spikes < 1356284707 476754 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really know. But it is slow. < 1356284757 17055 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It went away < 1356284764 990973 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: sounds like part of an scp < 1356284772 777965 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it will not end well < 1356284822 383024 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(This is a Stockholm-Helsinki ferry, and the wifi was quite speedy when it was in the harbour. Don't know what they're using for connectivity on the sea.) < 1356284892 121147 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :octopi(fi) < 1356284926 220274 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :satellite, probably < 1356285087 710117 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose. Though I do still get GPRS/EDGE according to the phone. < 1356285123 148023 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's 3G around Ã…land. < 1356285529 537398 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-54-224.sta.asta-net.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1356285828 531920 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-54-224.sta.asta-net.com.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1356286086 730946 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"To land, the craft had to slow its speed and pitch the fuselage until the craft was vertical. Power could then be reduced and it would descend until the landing gear rested on the ground. This would have been a tricky and probably dangerous maneuver given that the pilot would be seated facing upward and the ground would be behind his head at this stage." < 1356286190 147819 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-54-224.sta.asta-net.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1356286397 704571 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: context? < 1356286910 891592 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-54-224.sta.asta-net.com.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1356286942 581253 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-54-224.sta.asta-net.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1356287006 380485 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds like VTOL. < 1356287548 490182 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : Why Go Can't Scale Past 2 Billion Users <-- this was rather more intriguing before i realized you were referring to the programming language, not the game < 1356287558 343195 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1356287605 902956 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1356287634 162062 :nortti!~juhani@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1356288259 582161 :ogrom!~del@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1356288365 774510 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Focke-Wulf_Triebfl%C3%BCgel < 1356288414 920930 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1356288433 9418 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi Biket < 1356288537 519475 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi oerjant. < 1356288668 822033 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@cust-101.ktknet.cz JOIN :#esoteric < 1356289416 581818 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-54-224.sta.asta-net.com.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1356289550 580438 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1356289890 421546 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : like you said, they treat it very much as a sport. <-- curiously chess isn't part of the sport organizations in norway, which i understand is not the case in other places. on the flip side magnus carlsen says he'd never have gotten as far as he has if he had had to follow norwegian children's sport rules :) < 1356289944 575062 :Nisstyre-laptop!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre JOIN :#esoteric < 1356290066 108898 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's terrifying to realize that magnums carlsen was born after me @_@ < 1356290128 187215 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(btw he just beat kasparov's chess rating record) < 1356290175 139254 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow. < 1356290223 713218 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly those are well known to inflate over time. but he also has a nice gap to no. 2. < 1356290288 359961 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently magnus carlsen was born before me < 1356290296 399687 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :good to know < 1356290333 7640 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1356290338 662455 :DH____!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 JOIN :#esoteric < 1356290427 896836 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1356290497 648190 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :young chess prodigies are amazing < 1356290514 820030 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :my favorite is judit polgar, I think she's rated as the strongest chess player ever through age ~14 < 1356290518 344929 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(by age) < 1356290575 443676 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the best 14 year old chess player ever was 14 years old at the time < 1356290674 450072 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and she's like "dedicating my life to the game? pff, I'll have kids and take care of a family and keep a 27xx rating anyways because I'm that amazing" < 1356290762 912758 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I'm wondering about something < 1356290769 223389 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elo rankings show how well you're doing relative to others in your field < 1356290781 510616 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and thus, elo rankings should at least in theory be comparable /between different games/ < 1356290790 78310 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, what's the highest elo at anything ever? < 1356290795 962139 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, she seems to have dropped slightly below 2700 in http://www.2700chess.com/ (you have to go to the women's list to find her) < 1356290814 649342 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :she moves around I think, wikipedia says she's 2705 now < 1356290827 659338 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I guess she might have gone down in january < 1356290853 285426 :Nisstyre-laptop!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1356290892 667748 :Nisstyre-laptop!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre JOIN :#esoteric < 1356290919 282997 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :why are there different mens' and womens' divisions for chess? < 1356290964 643372 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: because there aren't enough women to compete at the top? < 1356290967 685483 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i assume < 1356290992 266462 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the gap from polgar to the next woman is very large < 1356291106 550514 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, about the same as from 1 to 7 for the men. admittedly no. 7 is also the current world champion :P < 1356291131 270024 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: is that because the others didn't participate < 1356291138 846147 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was some sort of schism in the chess world championship, IIRC < 1356291144 978667 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there were three competing champions for a while < 1356291149 652405 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure if it's been sorted out yet < 1356291162 74129 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sure that was years ago... < 1356291177 450244 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kasparov vs. karpov iirc < 1356291200 892230 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :none of them are even in the current 2700 list < 1356291211 43493 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't remember the third one < 1356291385 960410 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: I think especially before polgar there were almost no women in the top ranks < 1356291470 102587 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember reading an interesting article about how polgar was such an inspiration to the higher-level players that women GMs tended to play significantly more aggressively than the men because they were often emulating polger's own aggressive style < 1356291588 929752 :Bike!~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1356291698 887500 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The world championship was eventually reunified in 2006, when classical champion Kramnik defeated the winner of the FIDE World Chess Championship 2005, Veselin Topalov." < 1356291710 934158 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"One pilot, Feldwebel Rolf Heitsch, had his Dornier fitted with an infantry flame thrower in its tail." < 1356291928 326607 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I doubt it accomplished much < 1356292063 170183 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed, he got shot down that day < 1356292114 1074 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least he went down in flames < 1356292350 311469 :mekeor!~user@dslb-092-074-091-111.pools.arcor-ip.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1356292996 371339 :ogrom!~del@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee QUIT :Quit: Left < 1356293683 236099 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-54-224.sta.asta-net.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1356294273 776026 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT : < 1356294333 544118 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :YES! < 1356294342 848032 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :LAST HOUSEMATE IS LEAVING FOR CHRISTMAS < 1356294347 777472 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote hermit < 1356294349 441810 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :446) i try to be a hermit but it's hard with all these housemates. < 1356294648 834727 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@188.134.41.172 QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1356295173 706627 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I read the rule of the Wuss chess variant, but one thing I don't know, is if in Wuss V it is allowed to move a Wuss into an attacked square. < 1356295321 386778 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-54-224.sta.asta-net.com.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1356295909 890054 :carado!~user4539@2a01:e35:8b61:e430:6ef0:49ff:fe73:1fd0 JOIN :#esoteric < 1356298583 666732 :WeThePeople!~WeThePeop@63.91.27.121 JOIN :#esoteric < 1356299324 396106 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-69-192.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1356300990 137168 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PART :#esoteric < 1356301801 741328 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: "Also, i think the halting problem is very uninteresting because such systems don't need to be considered valid code" < 1356301841 853358 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :what insanity is that from < 1356301891 258693 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :#haskell < 1356301916 748870 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-69-192.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds sort of like Brainfuck/w/index.php?title=Talk:Brainfuck/index.php < 1356302316 746301 :Nisstyre-laptop!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1356302402 386200 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: whaaaaaaaaaaaat < 1356302407 224720 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: yes < 1356302455 387546 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: what's the last kind of lens you learned < 1356302477 906306 :Nisstyre-laptop!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre JOIN :#esoteric < 1356302493 285059 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably those twanvl-styled mirrored lens familiies... i havent payed much attn to lenses < 1356302523 831676 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow so passé :'( < 1356302530 406071 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :the new lenses are so elegant, edwardk exploded < 1356302540 528198 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which are these, the profunctor lenses < 1356302544 412246 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1356302550 821155 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1356302553 971537 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :and bifunctor lenses are also "p. cool" < 1356302557 109803 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i'll learn them sometime < 1356302558 765969 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i'll learn them sometime < 1356302609 182137 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: class Hi p where hi :: p a b -> p (Either b a) b < 1356302636 454029 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :what should that class be called < 1356302646 23299 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1356302653 676498 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"you know like category theory and stuff right" < 1356302659 934142 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-69-192.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Propogating"? < 1356302663 60848 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really........ < 1356302677 130035 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should know like category theory and stuff but < 1356302680 832422 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont know all that much < 1356302697 39546 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you just need to know the answer to my question < 1356302706 953290 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"thats like one thing how can you not know that :'(" < 1356302727 11920 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should be called prismatic imo < 1356302738 542812 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo bad name < 1356302790 622609 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there any contstraints on what p is, or "hi laws" < 1356302795 409156 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about braided lax costrong strong monoidal functor < 1356302799 777671 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is that the "entire Hi" < 1356302807 637366 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: um we don't quite know < 1356302811 166328 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1356302811 365587 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :p is usually a profunctor < 1356302825 808912 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means that (p a b) is contravariant in a and covarint in b < 1356302827 782683 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :p is always a profunctor < 1356302844 162145 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it could be a double-contravariant functor!!!!!! i think < 1356302853 174831 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-69-192.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (id |||) < 1356302854 361751 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(c -> d) -> Either d c -> d < 1356302865 916428 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-69-192.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (Control.Category.id |||) < 1356302867 124242 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ArrowChoice a => a c d -> a (Either d c) d < 1356302932 555565 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: what does Hi mean < 1356302942 864540 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: or do you just want a "fany maths name" < 1356302946 338825 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-69-192.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy, it's the opposite of Lo < 1356302947 783034 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fancy < 1356302950 722680 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :not fany < 1356302960 495868 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: because im sorry i dont know the fancy maths name!!! < 1356302965 666671 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: a "fany maths name" would be good < 1356302972 18747 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :a "fansy math name" would be better < 1356303000 57183 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: but some laws would be good too < 1356303020 795567 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :his brains are in terrible danger < 1356303033 797621 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't make laws out of noting!!!I need to know what laws have to hold for it to do what you want it to do....and then those are the laws you want < 1356303081 747874 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :just outsource it to agora < 1356303123 667340 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: ok (1). uh.... lmap Right . prismatic = id?? < 1356303128 542965 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: is that a good law < 1356303182 220075 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: i don't know what these lens things are because i don't know lens.....why are you asking me this stuff < 1356303195 929748 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: wait sorry < 1356303199 317467 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :because he's evil hth < 1356303204 326504 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: lmap Right . hi = id?? < 1356303212 842411 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :good law right < 1356303215 662354 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it true < 1356303248 170489 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: i don't know what these lens things are because i don't know lens.....why are you asking me this stuff < 1356303264 769297 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :because he's evil hth < 1356303276 105596 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh no a botloop. < 1356303329 884943 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4d0b7c55.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that happens when they change something in the matrix < 1356303459 528261 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the matrix is so last century < 1356303467 781292 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :now we use the tensor < 1356303479 82231 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4d0b7c55.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :aw.. what's that < 1356303511 417436 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4d0b7c55.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah k < 1356303518 483099 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :enjoy living in your tensor of solidarity < 1356303651 313271 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm "last century" is so last bak'tun < 1356303711 605253 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4d0b7c55.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pink is the new red < 1356303768 751858 :DH____!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1356303781 624357 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 JOIN :#esoteric < 1356303864 154325 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm "last" is so mueval-core: Time limit exceeded < 1356304081 690773 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@fluttershy.pl QUIT :Excess Flood < 1356304165 474492 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@fluttershy.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1356305786 995788 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the precise way in which ZeptoBasic is esoteric seems to elude me. < 1356305811 948184 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you could say that the way is... esoteric? < 1356305857 294872 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably. < 1356306386 692031 :Nisstyre-laptop!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1356306443 172184 :mekeor!~user@dslb-092-074-091-111.pools.arcor-ip.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1356306754 962319 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1356306830 827504 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds