< 1357430407 927983 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: nah you just need walls tall enough that the kids cannot get over hth < 1357430409 973973 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-bas1-h-31-4.dab.02.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1357430434 980443 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or there are multiple Ints. < 1357430438 789395 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :taint tracking is just a really poor analogy for monads (of course it's one /application/ of monads, as ais523 pointed out) < 1357430445 399354 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :newtype Sandbox = Box Sand < 1357430461 572623 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wish this analogy would die but my efforts to kill it have been unsuccessful and I gave up on trying < 1357430472 697220 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-bas1-h-1-5.dab.02.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1357430476 825476 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is the kind of fundamentally misleading analogy that is also immediately appealin < 1357430479 821619 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :g < 1357430482 61300 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, an M Int might have 0, 1, or more Ints inside < 1357430486 140790 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fguhguhuhghluhruhfff < 1357430490 122487 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does "inside" mean < 1357430494 887749 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :@quote analog(y|ies) < 1357430495 59686 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :lilac says: * lilac looks forward to Cale explaining category theory by analogy to Call of Duty < 1357430498 444049 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :does (Foo -> Int) have Ints inside it < 1357430498 974648 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(In fact, [Int] is pretty much a literal definition of "might have 0, 1, or more Ints inside") < 1357430499 687307 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might have an infinite number of Ints! < 1357430505 772288 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :technically it has as many ints as Foo has elements < 1357430509 188270 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes, I guess < 1357430510 958261 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but this is not a very useful way of reasoning about things < 1357430523 300676 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: const 0 < 1357430527 76623 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes it is < 1357430527 599021 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(IO Int) has as many Ints inside as there are sequences of interaction with the real world(!) < 1357430533 314083 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is an awfully gigantic number < 1357430536 729105 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :when I translated a computable-reals library from Haskell to Verity < 1357430540 632480 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also, with something like (Foo -> Int), "|Foo| ints" is misleading < 1357430544 902243 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we represented lists as functions < 1357430545 73541 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :since they can all be "the same Int" etc. < 1357430552 953970 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this can be relevant, in fact, for performance: sharing) < 1357430571 713267 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes although that's an implementation property and not a language property < 1357430574 503557 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote this week < 1357430576 366157 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell spec doesn't guarantee sharing :( < 1357430578 478646 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :366) meanwhile, I've been running a program for over 24 hours (getting close to 48 now) which is calculating digits of pi, in binary so far, it has found four digits I hope it will find the fifth some time this week < 1357430584 823337 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was the program that lead to quote 366 < 1357430591 691023 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the technique works, but it's not exactly efficient < 1357430595 6717 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :The haskell spec at http://haskell.org/ghc does < 1357430612 48123 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: feature IMO < 1357430635 928532 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which monad is (Foo -> Int), btw? Reader? < 1357430651 988563 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not having Haskell names memorized can be a problem when talking to Haskell programmers < 1357430674 838118 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, Reader, but it could easily be part of the definition of another monad < 1357430683 269206 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wasn't thinking of it as the "entire thing" when I said it < 1357430685 397308 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1357430698 998350 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Foo -> Int can't be a monad < 1357430704 366647 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :(->) Foo is Reader < 1357430706 470692 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION thinks ML programmers should know this stuff too
< 1357430712 484560 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: well, yes < 1357430712 656453 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or (->) Foo < 1357430731 210861 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Foo -> Int can be a monad with its type argument filled in, though < 1357430733 900429 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, two identical monads < 1357430739 311665 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: sure, but ML programmers don't use the same name < 1357430756 174670 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you call reader? < 1357430760 943035 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also monads are less everywhere in ML than in Haskell because everything's effectively in IO < 1357430772 957303 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't know, not sure I've given it a name before now < 1357430789 48293 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :writing the extra params by hand is what I normally do, even though I probably shouldn't :( < 1357430831 651370 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, (->) is often the most convenient way to use reader in Haskell < 1357430843 103394 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I flat out do not understand Racket's continuation model < 1357430844 425075 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1357430851 462122 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think monads can help tons in ML as well as Haskell < 1357430854 791634 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the Jane Street people agree < 1357430858 603168 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway we all agree that #haskell is usually wrong and none of us know how to fix it :( < 1357430866 574465 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: F# has monads, of course they had to change the name < 1357430882 216917 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do they call them in F#? < 1357430884 160003 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like every other practical application of FP < 1357430894 69372 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in 2013 I'd like to see people stop "implementing monads" < 1357430898 67629 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, not sure, but I vaguely recall that the syntax used for those is also usable for some non-monad thing? < 1357430898 238839 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I help all the time < 1357430899 781219 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"computation expressions" and "workflows" < 1357430911 438806 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they inevitably completely neglect Applicative etc. < 1357430917 865974 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and make something half-way and useless < 1357430920 557653 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you've really got to synergize your workflows to leverage new paradigms < 1357430927 317306 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott. yes. < 1357430968 508331 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :2013: Arrow in javascript < 1357430987 21549 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :2014: Monads... in C < 1357430998 93435 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i already implemented call/cc in C++ < 1357430999 216638 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :JavaScript already has monads. It's just the Builder Pattern. < 1357431000 493534 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :as have other people < 1357431002 822803 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-bas1-h-1-5.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't we just cut to the chase and implement monads in hardware < 1357431002 994878 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess the main problem with monads and applicatives and the like is the "now you have two problems" issue < 1357431006 227874 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :2015: Monads in x86 ASM < 1357431006 398391 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't you hear that talk? < 1357431015 345054 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're generic patterns that apply in lots of cases < 1357431018 376605 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: is this troll < 1357431033 677156 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: one might say that they are... design patterns < 1357431034 53573 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-bas1-h-1-5.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull gets me < 1357431034 686543 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so people feel pressured to implement things where a pattern applies using the pattern, for genericness < 1357431044 130507 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and now you have to understand the pattern as well as the way it's used < 1357431053 996615 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course the difference is that in Haskell a design pattern goes in the standard library and in Java a design pattern goes in a thick dead-tree book to be typed in by hand < 1357431057 360329 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I think Crockford did say at the end of the talk that it was an example of moands or something. < 1357431060 654106 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or into your IDE if you're lucky < 1357431069 231186 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: That's not really fair. < 1357431073 419290 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it's not < 1357431076 958595 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the real question is why anyone listens to crockford in the first place < 1357431080 192581 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a lot of Haskell lore for how to make things. < 1357431087 277795 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeedh < 1357431089 148726 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1357431091 984398 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :And a lot of repeated patterns in all sorts of places. < 1357431099 18196 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1357431108 741070 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but i think the community is better at recognizing these as problems, and trying to solve them < 1357431118 855915 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I'm not sure I like the way Haskell mixes error handling into monads < 1357431119 655325 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :resulting in 10 conduit libraries, 10 lens libraries, etc < 1357431129 757011 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's 10 lens libraries but there's only 1 lens libraries. < 1357431134 406731 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, the mathematical definition of monads doesn't require them to understand error handling < 1357431136 609164 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :There may be 10 libraries that provide lenses, but there's only one lens library. < 1357431138 589543 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The others are kind of pathetic. < 1357431139 462757 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and for some, like Reader, it doesn't make sense < 1357431140 901161 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course that itself is a problem < 1357431142 215391 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean fail? does anyone like fail? < 1357431145 378241 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1357431150 110966 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno everything is fucked < 1357431150 877587 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is fail defined in Reader anyway? < 1357431151 938549 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Nobody likes fail. "deal with it" < 1357431155 808455 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that if you integrate lens into your "workflow" it does about 50x more than any other lens package does < 1357431157 181551 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-bas1-h-1-5.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :10 == 1 < 1357431159 788048 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :gotta learn about how to blow up nuclear power plants using MS SQL < 1357431161 906577 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy, the people who keep trying to translate from Haskell straight into X seem to like it < 1357431163 625692 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Probably fail = errpr? < 1357431163 884506 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it isn't even primarily about lenses < 1357431164 235898 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION facepalms
< 1357431174 779919 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: barely anyone even uses fail < 1357431178 254600 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src Reader fail < 1357431178 688539 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source not found. I've seen penguins that can type better than that. < 1357431181 945770 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :50x longer type errors than any other lens library < 1357431183 725737 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :guaranteed < 1357431184 392520 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's there as a compromise nobody is happy about for historical reasons < 1357431188 185563 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess < 1357431188 781833 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can just ignore it exists in practice < 1357431194 370052 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :enlarge your type error 400% < 1357431196 690784 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd make more sense to have a FailableMonad m < 1357431204 806376 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :we already have that < 1357431208 187476 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for things like Either and IO which really can fail sensibly < 1357431213 500958 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yeah, it's called Monad < 1357431215 481703 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1357431216 62977 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :everyone knows the obvious answers < 1357431216 700699 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: We used to, in Haskell 1.4. < 1357431219 606891 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1357431220 805693 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :are lambdabot's insults from http://www.opensource.apple.com/source/sudo/sudo-17/sudo/ins_csops.h < 1357431223 883379 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :MonadZero is gone, though. :-( < 1357431229 580608 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's one of haskell 98's several regressions < 1357431235 882114 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the solutions are all basically obvious < 1357431239 683677 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the haskell committee: I liked their earlier work better < 1357431239 879912 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: is that like half a MonadPlus? < 1357431242 616007 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Seems that way. < 1357431246 483005 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yep. < 1357431253 885166 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also MonadPlus is basically just a Monad that's also a Monoid, right?) < 1357431257 6894 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Early Haskell used it in a lot of places where it now uses "fail". < 1357431264 78185 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It's not really the same. < 1357431271 403572 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :MonadPlus is Monad plus two operations and also nobody agrees on what laws they have < 1357431276 750471 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a different kind, for one. And the instance is able to do different things. < 1357431279 857962 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: :) < 1357431280 475663 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also all monads are monoids. < 1357431282 319275 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src Reader < 1357431282 696020 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source not found. Listen, broccoli brains, I don't have time to listen to this trash. < 1357431288 553449 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src Reader (>>=) < 1357431289 65272 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source not found. Do you think like you type? < 1357431294 277030 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src Control.Monad.Reader fail < 1357431294 555457 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source not found. :( < 1357431302 584367 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop expecting @src to be reasonable < 1357431307 717009 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know the thing where people expect @src to work? < 1357431309 669924 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I totally just guessed the package name there) < 1357431313 455230 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That thing keeps happening. < 1357431323 8280 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src lambdabot < 1357431323 477445 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source not found. :( < 1357431328 570407 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric : @src is a text file that people made by hand. < 1357431336 709696 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src < 1357431337 149176 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :src . Display the implementation of a standard function < 1357431340 148533 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src 0 < 1357431340 507813 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source not found. Where did you learn to type? < 1357431383 647267 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: genericLength xs = tailRecursive xs id 0 where < 1357431405 741751 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: s/.*/http://web.mit.edu/nelhage/Public/sudo / < 1357431417 516676 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh that's longer < 1357431465 912076 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would sudo have an insult library? < 1357431475 22200 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :to insult people < 1357431481 18711 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but why does it need to do that? < 1357431486 617107 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :to insult people < 1357431501 30094 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: insulting people can't be the reason for itself < 1357431508 621107 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :since when < 1357431516 725346 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should enable insults for this machine < 1357431519 267279 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I've never seen sudo insult anyone < 1357431535 480362 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you count the "this incident will be reported" thing < 1357431552 431985 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is a little worried about sudo's security attitude
< 1357431556 19296 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it's configurable < 1357431578 133529 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, especially because it's possible to write a wrapper for sudo that allows you to test if things are possible without the incident being reported < 1357431588 901968 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a command-line option to query whether something is sudoable < 1357431669 44483 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :can it be disabled in config? < 1357431757 562155 :greyooze!~GK@dab-bas1-h-31-10.dab.02.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1357431766 434137 :greyooze!~GK@dab-bas1-h-31-10.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you can set the insults flag on in your sudoers file < 1357431804 906205 :greyooze!~GK@dab-bas1-h-31-10.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is off by default (but why would anyone want *that*?) < 1357431816 189241 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :when does it insult people? < 1357431834 734913 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-bas1-h-1-5.dab.02.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1357431837 406124 :greyooze!~GK@dab-bas1-h-31-10.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :only if they give the wrong password AFAIK < 1357431840 278736 :greyooze!~GK@dab-bas1-h-31-10.dab.02.net NICK :GreyKnight < 1357431862 140861 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :echo 'nethack on' >> /etc/screenrc < 1357431874 863016 :carado!~user4539@2a01:e35:8b61:e430:6ef0:49ff:fe73:1fd0 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1357431926 390037 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: Why would you ever need that, when it's automatically turned on by default because of your ~/.nethackrc? < 1357431942 620842 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Or by the existence of $NETHACKOPTIONS.) < 1357431979 673914 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Other users do. < 1357432003 736705 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was the global "you". < 1357432014 84426 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreyKnight: hmm; deliberately failing the password check is the way you cancel a command if you realised you screwed it up < 1357432023 176678 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and part of the reason sudo password prompts is to give you a reason to consider < 1357432028 493148 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been known to control-c the password check before now < 1357432058 385395 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(another reason for the password prompt is so that you don't try to sudo something on the wrong physical machine; I have different sudo passwords on my own laptop and on nethack4.org, and I've definitely tried to run something as root on the wrong machine before now) < 1357432132 667613 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also I checked the only copy of the firmware of my VDSL2 box that can be found in the interwebs, the one for a different ISP (Sonera), and the cmsCli_authenticate there actually forwards to cmsDal_authenticate (which I think is the web admin interface authentication), instead of hardcoding root:public and ztedebug:ztedebug; I suppose my ISP has just wanted to make the telnet interface not ... < 1357432138 668494 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :... available for us customers. (They also don't provide any firmware downloads anywhere; they just remote-push it over TR-069 when they feel like it.) < 1357432189 553011 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: your zsh prompt is supposed to tell you which machine you're on < 1357432195 760982 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: oh, my bash prompt does too < 1357432202 683036 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just sometimes I don't notice it < 1357432213 457593 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you tend to mentally filter it after a while < 1357432337 527602 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-bas1-h-31-10.dab.02.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1357432348 379220 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :%F{red}%B%m%b%f < 1357432415 24615 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-bas1-h-31-6.dab.02.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1357432519 266234 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-bas1-h-31-6.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm apparently I already added "Defaults insults" to my sudoers, but I am not getting insulted ._. < 1357432531 646885 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-bas1-h-31-6.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, maybe I compiled it with them off... < 1357432537 456311 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, a problem with my model is that Qoppa wouldn't be able to generate require and provide forms for itself < 1357432540 65043 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1357433013 913538 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-24-217.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1357433014 121381 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-24-217.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1357433014 121553 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1357433119 256451 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ubuntu 'sudo' package contains a patch called "typo-in-classic-insults.diff". < 1357433159 902254 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It corrects "You type like i drive." into "You type like I drive.".) < 1357433169 710159 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1357433197 952889 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not a typo............ < 1357433266 184215 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also funny: http://sprunge.us/ehCY < 1357433268 833976 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1357433273 360127 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or is that "funy". < 1357433333 15411 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I can't also help noticing that the insults aren't localized.) < 1357433345 19467 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :this SCADA talk is honestly kind of boring < 1357433365 763175 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the takeaway message is that SCADA systems are vulnerable to well-known attack classes from the early '00's < 1357433390 53236 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :buffer overflow, XSS, insecure ActiveX plugins, default passwords, bad password hashing < 1357433400 626691 :c00kiemon5ter!~c00kiemon@foss-aueb/coder/c00kiemon5ter PRIVMSG #esoteric :translating phrases will not end well < 1357433403 349765 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :they just seem to be 20 years behind on basic security practices < 1357433412 621334 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is "broccoli brains" more PC than "burrito brains"? < 1357433431 826946 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :burritos are macintosh only < 1357433447 997096 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: if they localized the insults they would have to create a new setting for northern norwegian, and where would we be then... < 1357433473 598162 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: no_NO_No? < 1357433481 313702 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like that < 1357433485 75900 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :norwegian sure does make me say no < 1357433485 465404 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Better off? < 1357433486 606082 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :becuse it sucks < 1357433488 48713 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like oerjan < 1357433490 874262 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :excellent locale name < 1357433516 922419 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i didnt mean it sorry < 1357433522 909402 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: O KAY < 1357433528 321292 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we all love you oerjan < 1357433530 174776 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: lets friends < 1357433641 667606 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hooray < 1357433699 966107 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1357433721 640974 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: U MEAN < 1357433811 19926 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-bas1-h-31-6.dab.02.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1357433986 933572 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh come /on/ < 1357433990 449647 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-bas1-h-31-4.dab.02.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1357433993 947683 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how am I meant to set a good example for my students < 1357433998 796398 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :when the Java API is so full of bad examples < 1357434019 873709 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-bas1-h-31-4.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :use a GoodExampleFactory < 1357434028 273088 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance, something I just discovered: java.io.File.listFiles() returns null on I/O error < 1357434031 526567 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than throwing an exception < 1357434033 24934 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1357434040 778782 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is completely bad practice for Java < 1357434050 87726 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: just point it out as a bad example < 1357434052 485473 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-bas1-h-31-4.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, you're supposed to *be* a GoodExampleFactory. In that case I guess you'll need a GoodExampleFactoryFactory. < 1357434071 324639 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: yeah, except that the students are meant to be able to find it in the API themselves < 1357434075 449859 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and use it < 1357434080 698338 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it being a bad example makes the exercise worse < 1357434104 746838 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :do something different that doesn't make listFiles useful? < 1357434110 818916 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't test that they understand exception handling < 1357434116 895648 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the method doesn't actually throw exceptions < 1357434123 164582 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: yeah, I'm going to have to, I think < 1357434127 927289 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-bas1-h-31-4.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it *can* throw a SecurityException (which just raises more questions) < 1357434131 966729 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that would have been such a good exercise, too :( < 1357434135 338933 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreyKnight: it's unchecked < 1357434135 807199 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never used listFiles in Java, so obviously it's not useful < 1357434147 531369 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was basically going to ask "write ls -R in Java" < 1357434180 254183 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, java.io.File.listRoots() is even better < 1357434182 393392 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :" Unlike most methods in this class, this method does not throw security exceptions. If a security manager exists and its SecurityManager.checkRead(java.lang.String) method denies read access to a particular root directory, then that directory will not appear in the result." < 1357434221 356769 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-bas1-h-31-4.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :/golfclap < 1357434246 537926 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Some kind of a policy to not throw IO exceptions from File? Most of the other methods don't, either. (Though createNewFile does.) < 1357434253 607590 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is one of the worst designed Java APIs I've ever seen < 1357434304 57198 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, new exercise: rewrite File so that it doesn't suck < 1357434307 527077 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm not even sure I'm joking here) < 1357434308 405201 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1357434316 30308 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's also kinda old. < 1357434317 476664 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I think that's a great exercise actually < 1357434328 982784 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially since it's not clear that a security exception is right for listRoots < 1357434330 330223 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd need to be trimmed down, there's a lot of stuff in File < 1357434333 449070 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-bas1-h-31-4.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :createNewFile has a "success/failure" boolean return *and* an IOException for a specific kind of failure < 1357434382 321576 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-bas1-h-31-4.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh getCanonicalPath() can throw an IOException too < 1357434398 758136 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I debated about whether to mention that. < 1357434405 500214 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :But things like mkdir can't. < 1357434419 63134 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just a true/false/SecurityException. < 1357434442 861338 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1357434447 100937 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, if you're operating on a large number of directories, and one givens an exception, what's the right call? < 1357434459 741621 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Perl understands what it's doing a little better here, with the distinction between Dir::Cwd and IO::File < 1357434460 15792 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you lose the rest of the information for the security exception? < 1357434478 148673 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: well a File only represents one directory < 1357434485 723910 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if you want to operate on a large number, you use a loop < 1357434490 465600 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then you get a separate return/exception for each < 1357434499 752925 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1357434522 114588 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-bas1-h-31-4.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think I am on board with your "rewrite File" idea :-) < 1357434535 659517 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: sure < 1357434539 631402 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but listRoots is static < 1357434544 611166 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it is asking for all roots that exist < 1357434578 294618 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is that there are really three states: exists and accessible, exists and inaccessible, and inaccessible < 1357434599 446321 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you're not supposed to get a File object to an inaccessible directory, then what do you do? < 1357434603 777293 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: hmm, I'm not even sure if there's enough information in File to correct it < 1357434608 291695 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if you can, then it's just *exceptionally* poor design) < 1357434625 558152 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what happens if you call .exists() on a File object that represents a file inside an unreadable directory, for instance? < 1357434634 48962 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the documentation doesn't say < 1357434657 290937 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably an exception < 1357434657 965528 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"IO exception" is the only sane answer; "returns false" seems to be the only possible answer given the stated API < 1357434663 724258 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can find out, I think < 1357434665 788851 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1357434668 827145 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think having a File object for an inaccessible file is fine, you can create them from paths after all < 1357434680 192375 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: definitely < 1357434680 762522 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can get a File object for any String. < 1357434785 663479 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The File(String) constructor can only throw a NullPointerException.) < 1357434801 917214 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ xargs < T.java < 1357434803 327874 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it throws NPE for inaccessible stuff < 1357434803 499808 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :public class T { public static void main(String[] args) { boolean b = new java.io.File(/root/t.txt).exists(); if (b) System.out.println(true); else System.out.println(false); } } < 1357434804 855633 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ java T < 1357434806 360863 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :false < 1357434808 676826 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: xargs < ???????? < 1357434818 27749 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it replaces newlines wiht spaces < 1357434821 524903 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*with < 1357434826 341289 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so is quite useful for sending the program to IRC < 1357434829 100879 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, new java.io.File(/root/t.txt) < 1357434831 469221 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that really valid syntax? < 1357434843 82248 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, it seems to have eaten all the double quotes < 1357434844 594000 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the file < 1357434848 404322 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :useful indeed. < 1357434849 600615 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as well as replacing newlines with spaces < 1357434858 300724 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably it got shell dequoted < 1357434859 703096 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would it do that? < 1357434876 122242 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: lol < 1357434882 380558 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The default command *is* echo. < 1357434886 656955 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :xargs reads items from the standard input, delimited by blanks (which can be protected with double or single quotes or a backslash) or newlines < 1357434889 338627 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why wouldn't it eat quotes? < 1357434890 944492 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems that it's xargs that dequoted it < 1357434899 197366 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that xargs is specifically designed to eat quotes < 1357434905 856129 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :echo wouldn't dequote it because a shell isn't involved < 1357434956 885758 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1357434962 478600 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still get false even if I try a file that actually exists < 1357434963 980597 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as expected < 1357434973 174228 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that's in an unreadable directory) < 1357435013 756155 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-bas1-h-31-4.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :xargs does treat quotes and backslashes specially unless you provide the -0 option < 1357435041 207099 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreyKnight: then it doesn't treat newlines specially < 1357435045 655401 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-bas1-h-31-4.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :er -0 isn't useful here < 1357435054 633124 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-bas1-h-31-4.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ignore me it's late < 1357435116 643108 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :xargs -d'\n' doesn't dequote. < 1357435138 403903 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-bas1-h-31-4.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah, I was just coming to say that :< < 1357435146 727804 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could just do tr -d'\n'... < 1357435157 251314 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :er tr -d '\n' < 1357435159 751460 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't think tr unescaped < 1357435162 40382 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or tr '\n' ' ' maybe < 1357435169 407785 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't that just delete backslashes and ns? < 1357435181 751025 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :TIAS < 1357435198 561835 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, it does indeed work < 1357435199 988719 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-bas1-h-31-4.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :works < 1357435203 478851 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-bas1-h-31-4.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :\o/ < 1357435215 597990 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ tr '\n' ' ' < T.java < 1357435217 25815 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :public class T { public static void main(String[] args) { boolean b = new java.io.File("/root/typescript").exists(); if (b) System.out.println("true"); else System.out.println("false"); } } < 1357435223 805790 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :deletes the final newline as well, so it's not quite as handy as xargs < 1357435234 653462 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(now I'm wondering /why/ /root/typescript exists) < 1357435254 400026 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It possibly won't coalesce multiple blanks either. < 1357435260 990684 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "vi" it and find out < 1357435282 729629 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just l < 1357435294 811995 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, hmm < 1357435318 632355 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1357435321 128618 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it contains a uname < 1357435328 487759 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a wc -l of /etc/shadow < 1357435334 179303 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and an exit < 1357435347 716189 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I know why, it was to prove a point on reddit < 1357435349 988356 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-bas1-h-31-4.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CSI: Linux < 1357435428 945335 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There doesn't seem to be an obvious way to tell xargs "I want the arguments to be items separated by any whitepace like you do normally, except with no special handling of quotes/backslashes", since -d can only take a single delimiter, and in any case wouldn't coalesce multiple consecutive ones. < 1357435609 249007 :greyooze!~GK@dab-bas1-h-1-5.dab.02.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1357435638 942770 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-bas1-h-31-4.dab.02.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1357435849 394321 :greyooze!~GK@dab-bas1-h-1-5.dab.02.net NICK :GreyKnight < 1357435871 530061 :jiella1!~jiella@cs27103076.pp.htv.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1357435999 618169 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreyKnight: i would watch that < 1357436027 870828 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hopefully it would keep the same technical accuracy and nuanced character development of the original < 1357436049 82187 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the linux equivalent of the magical purple light which makes things glow if they have been involved in a crime < 1357436054 721457 :jiella!~jiella@cs27103076.pp.htv.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1357436071 608883 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-bas1-h-1-5.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :not to mention the magical computers < 1357436079 259862 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: nmap?? < 1357436088 143077 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cowsay < 1357436120 747307 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote what is the linux equivalent of the magical purple light which makes things glow if they have been involved in a crime kmc: nmap?? < 1357436124 669756 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :899) what is the linux equivalent of the magical purple light which makes things glow if they have been involved in a crime kmc: nmap?? < 1357436151 846981 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: When are you going to rewrite the quote thing? < 1357436164 669532 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still have the code I started to write before you told me to stop because you would do it instead. < 1357436173 322424 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Or do I? I might've lost it.) < 1357436179 584169 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It probably has some name like q.py.) < 1357436203 207124 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ wc -l qdb.py < 1357436203 418588 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :120 qdb.py < 1357436220 240536 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So? < 1357436228 623824 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you actually going to do it? < 1357436265 959158 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-bas1-h-1-5.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rewrite it in qoppa plz < 1357436292 300087 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-bas1-h-1-5.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Python is insufficiently esoteric for this august venue :-I < 1357436316 72201 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmnt_bot felt reasonably eso, at least < 1357436328 641526 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone remember bsmnt_bot? < 1357436336 545982 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zeptobot was python and yes < 1357436403 3146 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-bas1-h-1-5.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Request: a bot whose *commands* are esoteric in nature < 1357436415 702827 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :storkbot < 1357436508 678709 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreyKnight: this is a january venue < 1357436517 697273 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait six months and try again < 1357436624 375159 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-bas1-h-1-5.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is storkbot < 1357436637 81580 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder if qoppa counts as an esolang < 1357436638 399282 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or kernel etc < 1357436642 377742 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably a useless question to ask < 1357436682 659525 :jiella1!~jiella@cs27103076.pp.htv.fi QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1357436696 559814 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think a qoppa article on the wiki would be at home < 1357436715 639025 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish I could use Racket's eval so that Qoppa expression could expand into a Racket macro and have that be evaluate < 1357436717 488718 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :evaluated < 1357436873 123565 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"How do I install new Firefox on this Windows 3.1 CNC machine? Because Internet Explorer 3 won't open Facebook." < 1357436885 793332 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, actually, I could change the evaluation handler so that it distinguish between Qoppa evaluation and Racket evaluation < 1357436902 191839 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although, wait, that could be a bad idea < 1357436936 817767 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-bas1-h-1-5.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: "here's a pound, get a marginally newer machine" ? < 1357436971 800088 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreyKnight: I don't think even new CNC machines would necessarily run new OSes < 1357436981 306990 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're the sort of machine that you design with an OS once < 1357436986 634992 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then leave it there forever < 1357436992 932309 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: But is it a functionalang? < 1357437051 643414 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-bas1-h-1-5.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :disclaimer: I didn't actually look up what CNC meant and just made a facile joke < 1357437065 576021 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-bas1-h-1-5.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I did now) < 1357437112 676643 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@google cnc < 1357437119 808602 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Numerical_control < 1357437119 980005 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Title: Numerical control - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia < 1357437122 692899 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :whats a cnc < 1357437135 887906 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: command 'n' conquer hth < 1357437153 907757 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: computer numerical control machine < 1357437163 382305 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That too. < 1357437165 853760 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :whats that < 1357437166 399832 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're basically robots designed to move drills sideways in precisely controlled patterns < 1357437174 658625 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1357437176 104694 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kind of like me < 1357437181 783693 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :allowing you to cut arbitrary shapes out of a piece of material < 1357437499 130872 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-bas1-h-1-5.dab.02.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1357437536 752752 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1357437584 303013 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-1-8.dab.02.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1357438056 428980 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not necessarily moving a drill sideways < 1357438060 397370 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be a CNC mill < 1357438074 656886 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are also CNC lathes, laser cutters, vinyl cutters, waterjets, plasma cutters, etc < 1357438087 57092 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :3D printers < 1357438092 836463 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1357438093 356777 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: can you cut a mandelbrot set out of paper? < 1357438095 933897 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CNC milling is what I'm used to < 1357438101 86429 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I used to have access to a CNC mill < 1357438110 91823 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: did you mean ais523:? < 1357438115 541515 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can cut out an approximation of one < 1357438120 161405 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CNC machines aren't perfectly accurate, though < 1357438137 258435 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, i meant elliott, since he claimed to be kind of like such a robot < 1357438142 449066 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1357438151 524804 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i am a mandelbrot set < 1357438155 386089 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh < 1357438156 746002 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :irl < 1357438166 459671 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool mandel bro < 1357438173 960056 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that _would_ explain why you don't want taneb to see you < 1357438186 860027 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :how so? < 1357438187 671072 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ask atriq have you seen any mandelbrot sets around hexham? < 1357438188 204011 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1357438192 191275 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I look like this: http://slbkbs.org/sb/1.png < 1357438198 472874 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose you already know that, though. < 1357438279 391097 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not even going to click that link again < 1357438288 884781 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastlog never meet < 1357438319 791185 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2009-10-22.txt:03:47:55: I am saddened that I could never meet him or Borges < 1357438333 56197 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastlog elliott.*never meet < 1357438338 764099 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastlog duck < 1357438345 180799 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-09-12.txt:19:31:50: Phantom_Hoover: I and Taneb can never meet. <-- wait, wouldn't it be ok as long as it is nowhere near hexham? < 1357438345 426791 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2007-04-01.txt:05:52:38: -nod- what did you think I meant by duck typing? < 1357438360 700402 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :close enough < 1357438388 466111 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott is elliott and taneb is taneb, and ne'er the twain shall meet < 1357438411 372541 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: why must they mix mark twain into a kipling quote, i wonder < 1357438465 480022 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly because kipling did so himself < 1357438470 27716 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but WHY < 1357438533 30192 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i never got the log question answered, i think < 1357438691 947340 :sebbu3!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-24-217.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1357438692 704302 :sebbu3!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-24-217.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1357438692 878091 :sebbu3!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1357438698 900349 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1357438717 118 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless it was oerjan: there'll be ferries < 1357438758 749737 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i suspect that was a response to an earlier line < 1357438910 660013 :Nisstyre-laptop!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre JOIN :#esoteric < 1357439084 712194 :sebbu3!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1357439204 619114 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Quit: The struct held his beloved integer in his strong, protecting arms, his eyes like sapphire orbs staring into her own. "W-will you... Will you union me?" < 1357439365 283506 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arc-Koen's quit message is hilarious < 1357439370 698915 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Arc_Koen < 1357439384 791392 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if it's original or a quote from somewhere < 1357439460 476244 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's obviously a quote from a seedy place google doesn't reach < 1357439564 935658 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks vaguely like an attempt at invoking rule 34 (or possibly rule 35) < 1357439587 391395 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal JOIN :#esoteric < 1357439644 766063 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-1-8.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's from here < 1357439649 610622 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-1-8.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(so, oerjan is correct) < 1357439689 994319 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastlog sapphire orbs < 1357439696 923992 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2012-12-11.txt:21:22:25: the struct held his beloved integer in his strong, protecting arms, his eyes like sapphire orbs staring into her own < 1357439698 44780 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1357439708 234750 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should have guessed the author, really < 1357439723 9401 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fiora's good at that sort of thing :) < 1357439727 788930 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god my terrible joke has become a quit message < 1357439750 1914 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-1-8.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :has done for some time :-U < 1357439763 942878 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome Fiora < 1357439766 131748 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fiora: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) < 1357439797 698731 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wish i had your talent for shitty fanfic < 1357439799 529328 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fiora: it's an awesome joke < 1357439821 996052 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can do okay fanfic (I hope?) too < 1357439829 681631 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the point where fanfic rolls over from bad into being good again is actually quite close to the typical average of fanfic < 1357439840 111308 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so close, in fact, that it's met by chance quite a lot < 1357439853 647607 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I don't know if this is because I'm easily amused, or because typical fanfic is really shitty) < 1357439857 54714 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(possibly both) < 1357439896 463164 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's also very close the the point at which it becomes unironically publishable < 1357439928 82744 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: isn't that just because most publishers have no sense of irony? < 1357439928 671848 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: at which side? < 1357439951 58100 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-1-8.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :both < 1357440010 13670 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :speaking of published fanfiction, I saw this the other day < 1357440011 956157 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.amazon.com/Gamer-Girl-Mari-Mancusi/dp/014241509X < 1357440036 512784 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and apparently some people I knew had actually read it from the library and it's exactly as hilariously bad mary sue fic as it looks < 1357440097 388849 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean this was in a brick and mortar library < 1357440102 25670 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1357440108 95209 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're doomed < 1357440115 790700 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably YA section or something between the animorphs and redwall? < 1357440119 217548 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm… the mary sue phenomenon is probably the reason roleplaying games actually have rules < 1357440125 325486 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also the reason they have munchkins) < 1357440154 194228 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol, on a page that has graphics intended for use of games, a list of games it might be useful for: < 1357440155 259048 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Sokoban (Please don't make this game again) < 1357440155 430760 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1357440155 761286 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think the reason roleplaying games have rules is because it's so obvious they need them that everyone just sort of accepted it < 1357440158 936642 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.lostgarden.com/2007/05/dancs-miraculously-flexible-game.html < 1357440160 644580 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-1-8.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Readers will guess the identity of Sir Leo long before Maddy does" <-- already did -_- < 1357440167 962178 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@wn mary sue < 1357440169 40835 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :*** "mary" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)" < 1357440169 213118 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mary < 1357440169 213309 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : n 1: the mother of Jesus; Christians refer to her as the Virgin < 1357440169 213428 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Mary; she is especially honored by Roman Catholics [syn: < 1357440169 213538 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : {Mary}, {Virgin Mary}, {The Virgin}, {Blessed Virgin}, < 1357440171 55973 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :[10 @more lines] < 1357440178 762124 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mary is a total mary sue < 1357440205 222643 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@wn sue < 1357440205 819814 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :*** "sue" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)" < 1357440205 993747 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sue < 1357440205 993976 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : n 1: French writer whose novels described the sordid side of < 1357440205 994088 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : city life (1804-1857) [syn: {Sue}, {Eugene Sue}] < 1357440205 994252 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : v 1: institute legal proceedings against; file a suit against; < 1357440207 824111 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :[3 @more lines] < 1357440236 927204 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: a "mary sue" is a stereotypical fanfiction original character that is often a self-insert, steals the spotlight, and soon the universe is revolving around her (or him) < 1357440239 405375 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-1-8.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"And even more importantly, she begins reaching out to potential friends by starting a manga club and entering /Gamer Girl/ in a prestigious writing contest." <-- wait, so the character is *such* a blatant self-insert that she included the book inside itself? < 1357440254 683419 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes even in non-fanfiction, characters exhibiting hordes of mary sue cliches show up, so people call them sues too < 1357440264 445086 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's actually the fanfic version of GEB < 1357440278 792278 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-1-8.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's fanfics all the way down. < 1357440287 32827 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example, eragon < 1357440290 364640 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :entire book is marty stu < 1357440299 592851 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :@google tv tropes mary sue < 1357440301 134552 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MarySue < 1357440301 305260 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Title: Mary Sue - Television Tropes & Idioms < 1357440330 614434 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's eragon? < 1357440340 542187 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Eragon is the first book in the Inheritance Cycle by Christopher Paolini, who began writing at the age of 15." < 1357440346 811302 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's between dragon and fragon < 1357440358 282236 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is the age of the author the most important fact about the book? < 1357440372 306587 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this was basically my line of thought when i first saw the title) < 1357440384 996204 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-1-8.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :With such glowing reviews as "This is, bar none, the worst book I have ever read in my life." and "It has everything which makes a teen book amount to nothing.", how can I turn this opportunity down? < 1357440535 407837 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-1-8.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This is supposed to be a story of how gamers should be accepted as normal people and other related issues, but instead comes off as a descent into madness not unlike the works of H.P. Lovecraft." < 1357440535 617405 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-1-8.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :These reviews are a source of endless* entertainment < 1357440547 919452 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-1-8.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(* endlessness not guaranteed) < 1357440548 299039 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :much more so than the book, even as a so-bad-it's-good < 1357440560 862928 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eragon was a really popular YA series that sort of piggybacked off the popularity of harry potter and similar series < 1357440569 690972 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's terribly written, it's written by like, a teenager < 1357440578 130720 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :@wn YA < 1357440578 485731 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :No match for "YA". < 1357440580 818959 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :young adult < 1357440584 223431 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a review of dance with dragons on amazon that is basically better than the book in every way < 1357440592 221917 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it even got made into a major movie < 1357440610 660896 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone I knew in high school actually bought a copy and read it with a red pen, marking every instance of terrible grammar and awful writing, and that was how she enjoyed it < 1357440614 759604 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION now imagines the review got made into a major movie
< 1357440627 846571 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: and get reviewed < 1357440649 550112 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fiora: Isn't that a bit depressing? < 1357440658 394596 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1357440662 97808 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider all the things you could do instead of pointing out just how other things are terrible. < 1357440684 551263 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it was also practice for her, because she was an aspiring author and fanfic writer and did a lot of editing < 1357440689 682166 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :awww, that review got removed < 1357440700 525066 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-1-8.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, D: < 1357440701 645423 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, plus. guilty pleasure < 1357440709 235240 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kinda like how reading My Immortal can be incredibly funny < 1357440711 846250 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or the Eye of Argon < 1357440721 289220 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fiora, i hear it has elves < 1357440735 522174 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-1-8.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :MST3K, red pen style < 1357440755 321538 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://voxday.blogspot.co.uk/2012/05/cynics-summary.html aha! < 1357440773 978495 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :slightly more happens in this review than the actual book < 1357440798 516345 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-1-8.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The game within the book (Fields of Fantasy) is a spin off of WoW (in case you didn't know this is World of Warcraft)." Pet hate: people who use abbreviations and then expand them for you in case you didn't know. < 1357440830 255025 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the book was 959 page long...? jesus < 1357440841 185765 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :*pages < 1357440846 591770 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the uk it's two books < 1357440886 82550 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so's storm of swords, the difference is that in terms of stuff that happens storm of swords is like half the series < 1357440893 890230 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.ayudasystems.com/Jobs wow brogrammer much? < 1357440909 200624 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pro grammar < 1357440922 502217 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Pro ASP.NET in C# 2012" < 1357440929 34789 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :women are just another material perk, like gym membership and fancy espresso < 1357440931 584442 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-1-8.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I kind of want to make Sokoban with those tiles now just to be contrary < 1357440932 416820 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That'll work wonders with the macbook < 1357440980 354468 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: the women are for giving massages, clearly < 1357440991 649204 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and making the espresso < 1357440997 661221 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Gym membership" < 1357441003 253282 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and playing the foosball with < 1357441026 84975 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Women also cure myopia < 1357441029 606105 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :As you can see < 1357441037 576006 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Does it say that? < 1357441059 674285 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet, the trick is to have the woman report what she's seeing < 1357441090 41958 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't say that, just strongly implies < 1357441106 960887 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :"appeals to the notion that" < 1357441131 656648 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I must be missing it. < 1357441141 739484 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, do you mean the picture? < 1357441145 305142 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1357441190 132151 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it's a canadian company but they still flash US$100 bills? < 1357441197 793292 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, I skipped past that. Fair enough. < 1357441199 8054 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's all about the robert bordens baby < 1357441231 916698 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"all you can eat snacks" with a picture of doritos < 1357441232 972500 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: "Ex-Microsoft Software Engineer" < 1357441233 635337 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Right Honourable Sir < 1357441236 601146 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is so much stereotypical awful in there < 1357441273 4901 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-1-8.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow what is this < 1357441288 744295 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds like the worst place to work < 1357441297 293208 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-1-8.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also their "encryption engine" appears to be a simple substitution cypher < 1357441300 552598 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently, a person in Redmond, WA is called upon to give the opinion that this is the best job in Montreal, QB < 1357441338 887787 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-1-8.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fiora: like a perfect little ball of wretched :-U < 1357441340 297086 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreyKnight: it is probably meant to be easy, as a kind of FizzBuzz thing < 1357441348 741420 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice touch having SOS in morse code as part of the logo < 1357441364 512482 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :"So yeah, we're hiring" < 1357441367 90802 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreyKnight: yeah, but it's kind of scary how many places I've heard of being like that < 1357441379 275101 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm lucky I managed to find a better one, but < 1357441386 223022 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :most programming job applicants cannot program at all, which doesn't make sense until you factor in that the average programming job applicant is much less skilled than the average programming job haver < 1357441396 211174 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: indeed < 1357441436 486142 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes sense < 1357441437 647035 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-1-8.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :touché < 1357441450 412489 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :did I ever mention the friend of mine who delivered to a blizzard office? < 1357441494 2166 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't think so < 1357441503 623548 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :she had a food delivery/catering job at the time so she got to go to a lot of local tech companies and stuff. the blizzard place was like a frat house, with a middle area with giant TVs and tons of snacks, trash all over the place < 1357441506 117083 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-1-8.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently one of the job perks is "$1000 in cash". What, ever? < 1357441506 289225 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-1-8.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Worst pay scale < 1357441508 506149 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only woman she saw was the receptionist < 1357441531 390033 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet they get work done there, though < 1357441539 622724 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreyKnight: haha < 1357441560 119895 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-1-8.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think if I had to try and concentrate on code somewhere with a TV and table football... there would be some murders. < 1357441560 292975 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :As einstein said, a trashy house indicates a trashy mind < 1357441569 137833 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I mostly do not encounter these brogrammers, iHipsters, etc. in real life < 1357441576 770015 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe because i don't get out much < 1357441581 970083 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe because I live in Boston and not SF bay area < 1357441585 274297 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i share a kitchen with one < 1357441597 96141 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's an environment thing. like. there seem to be workplaces that are covered in them, and also workplaces with none < 1357441600 866079 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, they congregate and attract each other < 1357441601 169807 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fortunately he's still in the larval state < 1357441602 421494 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1357441604 459736 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :like attracts like < 1357441609 617624 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-1-8.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: wait is this a "thing"? I thought this was an isolated incident < 1357441618 280337 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what I always think when I see the rockstar ninja job ads < 1357441627 383928 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"do i want to be working with the kinds of people who respond positively to this ad" < 1357441632 510493 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreyKnight: which? brogrammers? < 1357441634 811356 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreyKnight, of course it's a thing < 1357441638 479886 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-1-8.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_O < 1357441639 838412 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a big deal < 1357441657 367960 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://thenextweb.com/us/2012/03/20/sqoot-loses-sponsors-following-misogynistic-description-of-their-api-jam-event/ < 1357441662 228979 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also mostly do not encounter them. < 1357441667 395240 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-1-8.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay... thankfully they don't seem to have spread over here much... YET < 1357441689 542329 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was the same in the dot com boom, what do you get when you have a sudden expansion in an industry with no developed sense of professionalism? < 1357441691 34020 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreyKnight: even outside of like, the most frattish awful guys. have you ever had the joy of accidentally looking at a comment thread on hacker news >_>; < 1357441692 480723 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-1-8.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd better stock up on defences just to be sure < 1357441721 320517 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-1-8.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I try not to read comments in general, they are the same the net over :o) < 1357441737 642590 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://geekfeminism.wikia.com < 1357441758 490186 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a great place to go if you need a guy to explain to you why sexism doesn't actually exist! < 1357441766 310629 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe tell you why rape jokes are /totally okay/ < 1357441766 707485 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-1-8.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow the sqoot thing < 1357441777 425586 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :straight white men with self-diagnosed asperger's are the /real/ persecuted minority! < 1357441799 509108 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i saw that as a defense of sexual harrassment at CCC < 1357441800 177661 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-1-8.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...Please explain to me how a live DJ will help me code < 1357441807 37376 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CCC? < 1357441814 207557 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"well we didn't get laid in high school, of COURSE we hate women! you can't blame us!" < 1357441828 506164 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :chaos communication congress < 1357441829 869213 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Self-diagnosed asperger syndrome < 1357441834 917018 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :big european hacker con < 1357441838 71776 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-1-8.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also they supply lots of alcohol? Quality code, coming up!) < 1357441842 824297 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :That should go in the handbook < 1357441890 919824 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1357441914 594325 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't get laid in high school, and ... I hope I don't act like a jerk towards women < 1357441921 909330 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ I think sometimes I do though < 1357441931 264612 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1357441941 200503 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo when has airing your insecurities here ever actually helped < 1357441961 340640 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-1-8.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes I act like a jerk towards people in general but I don't think I single out women < 1357441967 220658 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was worse in middle school though < 1357442002 718486 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-1-8.dab.02.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1357442006 4808 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, tar pits are actual pits of tar: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tar_pit < 1357442021 938261 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1357442036 973932 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :We should get one in here. < 1357442038 510987 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-84-9.dab.02.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1357442041 872548 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you think it was a hypothetical example or something < 1357442051 630098 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like a chocolate teapot < 1357442060 411970 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-84-9.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: really :-I < 1357442069 3550 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guacamole pit < 1357442070 658971 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, chocolate teapots aren't chocolate teapots? < 1357442082 470277 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course not < 1357442085 976209 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would you make one < 1357442093 789786 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be as useless as... well, you know < 1357442096 185621 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: you're a total jerk to me :/ what with constantly forgetting to tell me about homestuck updates < 1357442099 102322 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :to make your tea gross < 1357442099 275184 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you awful awful person :< < 1357442110 829061 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chocolate milk jug < 1357442120 459264 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-84-9.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So are there any more bits of fail like this ayuda business? < 1357442133 224557 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's your own fault for stealing fizzie's nick prefix < 1357442139 346140 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Every time you tell people about updates, I feel pain. < 1357442146 170156 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-84-9.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was trying to think of something witty to say about the "learn magic tricks" but I can't come up with anything :< < 1357442166 307746 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: i bet it's because shachaf isn't on "the list" and he wants you to tell him about the updates too < 1357442169 977262 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreyKnight: yes, I think there are loads of places exactly like that < 1357442177 698387 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy, I did that once < 1357442191 287342 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreyKnight, how about the fact that you can't impress your colleagues with them because they already know the trick, and you can't use it to pick up women because you already get one with the job. < 1357442215 350115 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Hmm, you should tell me about giantitp.com comic updates instead. < 1357442229 93182 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-84-9.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: it actually updated! At last < 1357442230 871708 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tell everyone about perry bible updates < 1357442239 474565 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't even ask < 1357442241 570757 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreyKnight: I saw that. < 1357442244 18790 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, update as of new year's eve! < 1357442255 264857 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: OK, now tell me when the next one happens. < 1357442278 616428 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't this thing have an RSS feed that you can subscribe to or something? < 1357442279 299984 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a Twitter account that tweets when it updates < 1357442290 988911 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-84-9.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I was going for something along the lines of "Oh, you know a magic trick? That's adorable. Let me show you (amb)..." < 1357442293 160894 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, so does Homestuck < 1357442294 25581 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :have they actually accomplished anything in the last... 6 months? < 1357442294 274583 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But please don't tell monqy or elliott or Fiora or Taneb < 1357442299 173685 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or any of "those people" < 1357442299 632926 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's optimize this notification system out of #esoteric < 1357442309 888953 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :who's "those people" < 1357442313 960232 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: you < 1357442318 38875 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::0 < 1357442320 413756 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-84-9.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :-Onotifications < 1357442326 593765 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :¹ < 1357442327 214985 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.71.62 PRIVMSG #esoteric :woah am i those people < 1357442334 74414 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooodl: no < 1357442336 452104 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi nooodl < 1357442337 760936 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooodl, aren't you monqy < 1357442339 278604 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.71.62 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just checking... < 1357442344 171121 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.71.62 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes that's why i asked < 1357442346 726153 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-24-217.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1357442347 231638 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-24-217.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1357442347 405429 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1357442451 811303 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh! speaking of tar, "The ninth drop is expected to fall in 2013." (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pitch_drop_experiment) < 1357442464 583451 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's hope the webcam works this time < 1357442495 651052 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : shachaf: it actually updated! At last <-- you know it's been long between updates when the comic itself lampshades it < 1357442515 313631 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would be good. The grass here doesn't grow very beautifully. < 1357442551 333859 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :When was the 8th drop? < 1357442553 287033 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The grass doesn't grow on trees, you know. < 1357442568 560437 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-84-9.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: 2000 < 1357442572 782497 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1357442578 327070 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: the wiki page has the whole list of drops < 1357442581 112709 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-84-9.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :experiment started in 1927 < 1357442591 306018 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1357442621 300239 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sucks that it wasn't recorded < 1357442690 585032 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1357442708 354278 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (2013-1927)/9 < 1357442709 914420 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 9.555555555555555 < 1357442764 118267 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah obviously when the drop is caught falling, the world ends. that's how these things work. < 1357442894 954782 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, time for me to learn comonads < 1357442927 951328 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 JOIN :#esoteric < 1357443034 399720 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-84-9.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :why aren't there a glut of comonad tutorials >:-( < 1357443035 716693 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: there's a big increase in drop time since they installed air conditioning in the late eighties < 1357443044 402349 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1357443091 925990 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-84-9.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: actually I guess *you're* supposed to teach the tutorial writer about comonads < 1357443095 36537 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreyKnight: because while everyone makes a monad tutorial, they just _read_ comonad tutorials < 1357443115 417497 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-84-9.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :* cotutorial < 1357443364 254235 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1357443438 462529 :mig22!~miguelort@bb116-15-66-100.singnet.com.sg JOIN :#esoteric < 1357443552 741695 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-84-9.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 234 < 1357443554 310817 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :234) !bfjoust sm3 < Score for Deewiant_sm3: 43.4 < 1357443593 484077 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust sm4 << < 1357443606 574288 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for shachaf_sm4: 0.0 < 1357443609 924569 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: the scoreboard was bugged when that happened < 1357443621 250119 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, but my version is upgraded. < 1357443624 831048 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not just a clone. < 1357443737 567554 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust fnord >+<[+-] < 1357443741 729506 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for oerjan_fnord: 8.7 < 1357444219 732174 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I also worry about being subconsiously sexist :/ < 1357444278 67468 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you might be better off using ()* rather than [] there < 1357444288 345371 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that way you're not wasting a cycle on zero testing < 1357444311 134481 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think everyone has some level of subconscious sexism, racism, and the like, and it's sort of our job to try to catch ourselves the best we can < 1357444316 213498 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think if you never worry about it at all, you are probably sexist < 1357444317 881752 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust fnord >+<(+-)*-1 < 1357444318 715945 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1357444321 934889 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for oerjan_fnord: 6.2 < 1357444329 606439 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, maybe not :) < 1357444333 684144 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been familiar with feminist principles for years, but I still catch internalied-misogyny thought processes sometimes < 1357444339 842905 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and have to go like stupid fiora stop it no no no no no < 1357444376 683401 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust maybe_better_than_oerjan_fnord >+<(.+-)*-1 < 1357444380 602050 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_maybe_better_than_oerjan_fnord: 11.5 < 1357444384 302539 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1357444390 327868 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah. worrying is good <_< < 1357444397 862574 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :within reason :) < 1357444404 269456 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am also the kind of person who worries about everything < 1357444412 121030 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"But at this phase, the all-male society of bit-heads that made up the power structure of Black Sun Systems said that the face problem was trivial and superficial. It was, of course, nothing more than sexism, the especially virulent type espoused by male techies who sincerely believe that they are too smart to be sexists." < 1357444414 430025 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :a bit of worrying, at least! < 1357444435 912672 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"My feeling about nonsexist English is that it is like a foreign language that I am learning. I find that even after years of practice, I still have to translate sometimes from my native language, which is sexist English. I know of no human being who speaks Nonsexist as their native tongue. It will be very interesting to see if such people come to exist. If so, it will have taken a lot of work by a lot of people to reach that point." < 1357444502 929405 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nonsexist English is much easier than nonsexist Hebrew. < 1357444562 969647 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-84-9.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the "face problem"? < 1357444622 453975 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not particularly relatedly, did you read Chiang's _Liking What You See_? < 1357444627 905111 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.clarku.edu/welcome/placement/pdf/reading.pdf < 1357444679 675386 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: yes! thanks for sending that to me as well :) < 1357444687 656569 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreyKnight: putting good faces on avatars in a 3D world < 1357444690 728352 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, I might've mentioned it before. < 1357444695 393741 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that look realistic and not all uncanny-valley < 1357444698 427750 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a quote from Snow Crash < 1357444704 562355 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1357444711 84875 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"At the time, both of them were working on avatars. He was working on bodies, she was working on faces. She was the face department, because nobody thought that faces were all that important-they were just flesh-toned busts on top of the avatars. She was just in the process of proving them all desperately wrong." < 1357444753 483866 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-84-9.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can see why good face models are important although I don't see what it has to do with sexism particularly? < 1357444803 751149 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Humans have a whole brain section dedicated to just faces < 1357444892 988294 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.71.62 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1357445065 212063 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could read the book < 1357445093 89891 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't particularly have to do with sexism < 1357445104 291710 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I read the book but it was quite a long time ago. < 1357445114 604654 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps I shoould read it again? < 1357445117 635942 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just that the guys thought the thing she was working on was unimportant, partially due to sexism < 1357445122 495685 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not especially relevant to the plot < 1357445126 437041 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's a good book and you should read it < 1357445138 17489 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i quoted it just for the last sentence < 1357445152 433092 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"male techies who sincerely believe that they are too smart to be sexists" < 1357445159 138143 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :regarding the merits of worrying about this :) < 1357445181 346074 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :we programmers tend to think of ourselves (and the rest of the world) as computers, following programs < 1357445201 132287 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and since we know intellectually to avoid prejudice, we think that of course we will act that way < 1357445210 509698 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but brains are imprecise computers < 1357445219 770229 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1357445245 55544 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intrusive_thoughts is another useful concept < 1357445277 277610 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Many people experience the type of bad or unwanted thoughts that people with more troubling intrusive thoughts have, but most people are able to dismiss these thoughts... London psychologist Stanley Rachman presented a questionnaire to healthy college students and found that virtually all said they had these thoughts from time to time, including thoughts of sexual violence, sexual punishment, "unnatural" sex acts, painful sexual prac < 1357445350 620709 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you using that as an example of brains being "imprecise", or with respect to "internalized misogyny" < 1357445372 665589 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not a psychologist, but I'd imagine that any thought that someone would intellectually think is "bad" would come up in intrusive thoughts < 1357445388 925910 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :both really < 1357445431 406198 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :having racist thoughts does not make you racist any more than having murderous thoughts makes you a murderer < 1357445432 855429 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can imagine lots of rusty nails emerging from my flesh everywhere < 1357445442 241026 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the important thing about intrusive thoughts isn't so much the content as the inability to get rid of them, sgeo. < 1357445458 525177 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the idea of the mind as a single indivisible agent is pretty bogus < 1357445463 956968 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the mind is a committee, if not a whole bureaucracy < 1357445476 589429 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :something something minsky < 1357445489 541908 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes the part that we perceive as the executive agent needs to yell at the other bits to keep them in line < 1357445492 943757 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just ignore them < 1357445561 741260 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sometimes blame the book "Well Wishing" for giving me the idea that my thoughts, if left unchecked, might cause actual harm magically, and thus an urgent and uncomfortable need to mentally yell at myself any time I have a "bad" thought, rather than just ignoring it < 1357445566 680512 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Usually what you can do is just think about something else < 1357445582 166322 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that's probably not good Sgeo < 1357445586 34294 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am also not a psychologist < 1357445590 112310 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(shocker to you all, i'm sure) < 1357445598 289663 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it's just me but i find that self-help books are really, really bad for anything psychological < 1357445618 746459 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you have intrusive antiintrusive thoughts, sgeo! < 1357445689 210997 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder if "hipster racism" and the like is a not-entirely-benign coping mechanism for dealing with intrusive racist thoughts < 1357445700 707042 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"hipster racism"? < 1357445712 622862 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-84-9.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was about to ask too but then decided "maybe I'll let that one lie" < 1357445718 16866 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://jezebel.com/5905291/a-complete-guide-to-hipster-racism < 1357445721 516621 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-84-9.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has uncovered enough bizarreness for one day
< 1357445781 340025 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, the thug life article, i remember reading that. < 1357445799 817021 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, being racist as a joke because 'everyone knows' you're not racist < 1357445808 707092 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that 'everyone knows' is usually based on something like "i'm smart" or "i voted for obama" < 1357445817 932657 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i feel a bit uncomfortable with using "intrusive thoughts" to refer to the non-insanity-related normal condition, but i guess it's kosher < 1357445852 160907 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: well that article seems to think so anyway < 1357445852 542665 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-84-9.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This author sure loves exclamation marks < 1357445855 477238 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's just a wikipedia article < 1357445880 99353 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that's what i meant. it's just like how i get antsy when people talk about "insane" or "OCD" casually i guess < 1357445886 695823 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1357445896 504465 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see what you mean < 1357445944 846157 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ADD" and "aspergers" get used that way too < 1357445968 874674 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :aspergers has the whole internet diagnosis thing going for it too :/ < 1357445972 598903 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1357445987 65932 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think there's a fair amount of that with ADD and OCD too < 1357446005 646939 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :aspergers is no longer a disorder recognized by the APA < 1357446013 307278 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever that doctors' association is called < 1357446014 883719 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know that I have some obsessive-compulsive tendencies, but it doesn't really get in the way of my daily life, so I guess there's no 'D' < 1357446025 545019 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :every time I leave the house I check about 5 times that the stove is off < 1357446025 716368 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OCD is an anxiety disorder < 1357446033 190134 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: is it autism spectrum now? < 1357446033 363294 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, that could qualify < 1357446035 841241 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: yes < 1357446042 24610 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fairness, it has been found to be not-off more than once < 1357446060 351066 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it that OCPD is what people usually think of as "OCD" or... i forget. < 1357446061 617770 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :one time I lived with a guy with serious for-reals ADHD and he would do things like turn the stove on, forget to light the burner, and then wander off to his room < 1357446075 471700 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, if you just like to organize things neatly because you think they look better, that's not OCD < 1357446078 891992 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if you do that a lot < 1357446087 499161 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i figure an extra 30 seconds of my time towards the house not burning down is an ok investment and so I don't fight it too hard < 1357446112 427484 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :«this Tweet from Zooey Deschanel: "Haha. :) RT @Sarabareilles: Home from tour and first things first: New Girl episodes I missed. #thuglife." See, it's hilarious, because we aren't thugs—we are darling girls, and real thugs are black people who do crime!» < 1357446113 340921 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, i suppose it's the "compulsive" part, where you find it hard to stop even if you want to < 1357446114 794150 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: yeah that's what i meant, people using it casually to refer to things that are nowhere near medical conditions. < 1357446116 414207 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't get it. < 1357446128 260971 :Nisstyre!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1357446128 831625 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't get what? < 1357446143 39717 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which part of that is racist? < 1357446160 960513 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the last sentence is meant to explain it < 1357446168 551224 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think that's not really an egregious example < 1357446184 884982 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The idea is that "thug life" is being used to refer to things we don't think of as stereotypically "thuggish", i.e. black. < 1357446197 380317 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@wn thug < 1357446198 167329 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :*** "thug" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)" < 1357446198 341031 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :thug < 1357446198 341226 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : n 1: an aggressive and violent young criminal [syn: {hood}, < 1357446198 341338 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : {hoodlum}, {goon}, {punk}, {thug}, {tough}, {toughie}, < 1357446198 341445 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : {strong-armer}] < 1357446207 626603 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :buuuuut that particular sentence is the one part of the article that's been pasted over and over and argued about anyway < 1357446210 744706 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :dictionaries are not great guides to racism < 1357446212 330668 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION isn't trying to play dictionary here in particular.
< 1357446223 612503 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: OK, I haven't read the article before. < 1357446242 110214 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: No, it's not OCPD. A few manifestations of OCD stereotype the disorder, which causes people to misunderstand the fact that it's an anxiety disorder characterized by irresitable urges to perform specific, usually-irrational actions so as to relieve the anxiety. This leads to people both failing to understand what OCD sufferers are experiencing and believing that things may be OCD when they are not. < 1357446244 281077 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't think you did, I'm just saying you're not the only one who read that part and thought "what?". < 1357446246 333127 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, it's discussed in comments there, I see. < 1357446276 749251 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :in britain they argue about whether "chav" is classist but not whether it's racist, 'cause chavs are white too < 1357446285 55883 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :also in britain they actually think about classism < 1357446294 477712 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :here in the USA we jump to racism even when the racial factor is an incidental correlate < 1357446306 969118 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is great for the racists in power by the way < 1357446315 790155 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: the stereotyping is what i meant. it's like how "schizophrenia" is used to refer to DID or "autism" means Rain Man. I just don't know much about OCD 'cos I don't have it :/ < 1357446317 422496 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OCPD I suppose can also be mistaken for OCD due to the stereotype < 1357446320 327945 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :really great for the oligarchy in general < 1357446379 59438 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the primary OCD stereotype (performing certain actions irrationally), in my experience, is not found in OCPD sufferers, and people who refer to it simply don't know that OCPD exists < 1357446381 845938 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh that shitty show on FOX where kiefer sutherland's autistic kid has MAGIC POWERS! and saves the world in 44 minutes every time < 1357446392 138710 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: I have neither, but I have had girlfriends with both. < 1357446393 323235 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :they had a Magic Negro too < 1357446397 790168 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not at once) < 1357446403 324673 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think that show was pretty close to a Media Representations Studies bingo card < 1357446404 428410 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha. < 1357446419 757230 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: wow, what the fuck? < 1357446454 480305 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :to be fair they do portray him as a really hard kid to deal with and not /just/ a special magical snowflake < 1357446520 506754 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: interesting < 1357446531 934455 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is like swearing being the stereotypical manifestation of tourette's < 1357446546 774671 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OCD is really really distinctive < 1357446596 836638 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :from my experience, OCPD is more like someone who has a really precise view of how things should be and can get somewhat easily upset when that view is violated < 1357446605 98803 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(often at the person upsetting the view) < 1357446644 831070 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose I should read my friend's posts on what having OCD is like to be less of an ass in the future < 1357446653 648914 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :OCPD is the television stereotype of OCD < 1357446674 34444 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: Not even. < 1357446686 927801 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think that's what coppro's been saying isn't true for a few minutes now, jafet < 1357446720 386264 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: Because OCPD sufferers don't do have irrational compulsions, and a few of those (like counting) are part of the OCD stereotype < 1357446725 952144 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :*don't have < 1357446745 836637 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay < 1357446756 25651 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, it's possible for someone to have OCD and OCPD simultaneously < 1357446759 581030 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :in theory < 1357446764 165312 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't imagine what that would be like, though < 1357446783 409190 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :obsessive stereotype disorder < 1357446785 258806 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of the characteristics of OCD is that the sufferer usually is aware that the compulsions are irrational < 1357446787 421376 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, OCPD is a personality disorder, they're in totally different clusters < 1357446802 884877 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :by contrast, OCPD tends emphatically not to have that < 1357446811 822050 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the two combined would be... interesting < 1357446820 214917 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you have experience in clinical psychology, coppro? < 1357446820 440496 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :distressing. < 1357446832 767900 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :girlfriends, even better < 1357446833 716381 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: no, this is personal experience < 1357446837 946895 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, someone could perceive their tidiness as normal, and their habits as unnatural < 1357446841 518606 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: -_- < 1357446844 259374 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: yes, it's true < 1357446853 197012 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: (it's what he said earlier) < 1357446863 676466 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But tidiness can be a symptom both of OCD and OCPD, but with different root causes < 1357446867 51042 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :hang on a sec < 1357446974 907759 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :having close contact with someone with a mental disorder is probably the second best way to learn about it, though < 1357447001 693596 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-84-9.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "hipster racism" article was a bit confusing in places, mostly due to stuff that probably makes sense to Americans. I don't like the writing style though. < 1357447057 212879 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: In OCD's case, third best after having it. Probably not the same for OCPD though. < 1357447077 825379 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh boy is it time for a game of Ask an American? < 1357447080 612812 :TeruFSX!~TeruFSX@65-128-142-102.mpls.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1357447095 571831 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, having it doesn't seem to do much good, but i suppose it's different if your problem isn't based on denying you have a problem < 1357447098 21429 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i enjoy answering questions about my weird country < 1357447154 896480 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreyKnight: yeah the writing style is not the best, I think it's trying pretty hard to capture the attention of people who are indifferent or hostile to the message < 1357447158 592911 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-84-9.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I kind of don't really want to know :-U < 1357447172 92186 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh but i'm curious about what was confusing :( < 1357447173 116492 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well < 1357447184 463119 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-84-9.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(every time I play Ask An American I usually go away with a sadface) < 1357447208 297380 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :asking about institutional prejudice will surely be different! < 1357447224 135183 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-84-9.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A cheery subject if ever I heard one < 1357447233 414223 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, cultural prejudice really < 1357447246 304324 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's say little of column A, little of column B < 1357447320 949047 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I found the article pretty annoying even though I don't think I disagree with the basic point it's trying to make. < 1357447365 999394 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that happens with jezebel a lot, I think. < 1357447383 865343 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :In my limited experience, yes. < 1357447385 344775 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-84-9.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The name of the site doesn't really inspire confidence :-U < 1357447392 252975 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are probably better articles < 1357447400 902268 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just the first one that comes up, and does explain what the basic problem is < 1357447411 660003 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreyKnight: eh? < 1357447463 889541 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-84-9.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jezebel (the famous one, anyway) was a fairly unpleasant and vicious person < 1357447529 249200 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-84-9.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"cross me and I'll destroy your character and maybe kill you if you're lucky" sort of thing < 1357447561 812197 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would guess that it's named after the negative epithet for women, but i haven't checked... < 1357447624 697974 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-84-9.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm well that comes from the same source I guess < 1357447636 768057 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably. but in a higher degree. < 1357447657 24632 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-84-9.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(she was also famous for being a bit overly fond of her appearance) < 1357447918 866789 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-84-9.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe they are trying to do the "turn it into a positive term" thing? I can't say it seems like a good idea, some things should just be thrown away and not recycled :-/ < 1357447954 246200 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm kind of surprised that you think of the Biblical figure instead of the insult first. That's new to me. < 1357447973 995145 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not aware that it's an insult. < 1357447981 34408 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmmmm. < 1357447983 216310 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I knew a cat by that name, and she was a nice cat. < 1357447983 389077 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@wn jezebel < 1357447984 31168 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :*** "jezebel" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)" < 1357447984 204003 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jezebel < 1357447984 204181 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : n 1: wife of Ahab who was king of Israel; according to the Old < 1357447984 204305 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Testament she was a cruel immoral queen who fostered the < 1357447984 204418 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : worship of Baal and tried to kill Elijah and other prophets < 1357447985 905191 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who knows, they might be jez ebel to do it. < 1357447986 78597 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : of Israel (9th century BC) < 1357447988 47349 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 2: a shameless impudent scheming woman < 1357447993 233055 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guess I lose! < 1357447996 2438 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-84-9.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it's more common in Bikeland? < 1357448010 866214 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been reading too many old books. < 1357448018 777945 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't know that it was an insult either, though i would have guessed < 1357448023 721653 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-84-9.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe not old enough :-) < 1357448054 392312 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't actually remember what Jezebel did anyway, it's been forever since i read any of the OT < 1357448061 638646 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps it has to do with the fact that women who demand equal treatment are seen as impudent and scheming < 1357448068 499501 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps it's just a cool sounding word < 1357448088 414105 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i looked on their site for a bit about the name but rapidly ran out of give-a-fuck < 1357448099 598124 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah their wikipedia article is pretty unhelpful too < 1357448131 755350 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"people of color" is an irritating phrase. < 1357448151 941822 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1357448162 879888 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-84-9.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I read it as "non-albinos" :-U < 1357448176 346964 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Imagine that I declared that every apple that isn't green is an "apple of color". < 1357448181 201129 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :man, things are really different outside of the US. < 1357448205 528541 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, no, "white is also a color!" is a thing here, maybe i'm just not used to it yet < 1357448241 737027 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-84-9.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: well, also in actual use it seems to basically lump together lots of unrelated groups into "non-whites" < 1357448248 318604 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-84-9.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is presumably not the intent but is still kind of uh when you realise it < 1357448253 209869 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: I'm not sure what you mean. < 1357448255 754583 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, that's the intent < 1357448264 863653 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the USA politicians love to stereotype by race < 1357448276 449910 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's supposed to unify the various groups hurt by racial oppression (in the US) < 1357448280 774037 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :say something about immigration in spanish, there, you've checked off "the Hispanic vote" and can go back to ignoring them < 1357448284 152655 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is, well, non-whites. < 1357448301 575360 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Dunno, just that learning about the NAACP in history class the name never bothered me. < 1357448304 273481 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :never mind that some of those people are illegal immigrants and some of them are upper middle class third generation americans < 1357448344 378563 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-84-9.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: Huh. You would get weird looks using terminology like that round here really (disclaimer: I haven't tried). < 1357448377 546445 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's mostly seen as a bit old-fashioned. < 1357448413 879009 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-84-9.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I kind of want to see a native American running for president sometime on a "let's get rid of all the immigrants" platform. But it turns out he means ALL! (this is kind of lulzy) < 1357448420 882077 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially since racism is over now and all. < 1357448572 917741 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i enjoyed http://jezebel.com/5959154/is-america-ready-for-a-white-male-secretary-of-state < 1357448606 467999 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-84-9.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that picture is going to give me nightmares < 1357448622 459233 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-84-9.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the chin... the chin... it comes... < 1357448627 712094 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa, it's like an onion article :D < 1357448629 443382 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1357448639 242521 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :though even less subtle, somehow < 1357448771 242828 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-84-9.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :TL;DR < 1357448805 888457 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's basically just taking the usual "is America ready for a [minority] [governmental position]" articles and turning it around < 1357448824 243234 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-84-9.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually I stopped reading the Onion for similar reasons, I guess I want my jokes in snappy soundbites these days < 1357448865 485671 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-84-9.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even *own* an ipod! < 1357448867 987965 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"How can we hope to maintain healthy relationships with our European allies when John Kerry can't sit in a sauna with Angela Merkel, Danish Prime Minister Helle Thorning-Schmidt, Lithuanian President Dalia Grybauskaitė, and Jóhanna Sigurðardóttir, the Prime Minister of Iceland?" < 1357448898 282479 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't Sigurðardóttir get impeached or something? < 1357448917 926045 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, apparently not. < 1357448918 823671 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no that was the president, i think, who was male < 1357448947 963830 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-84-9.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually wait I have one of the wee square ones with no screen (I didn't pay money for it mind) < 1357448950 322939 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :♥ iceland < 1357448971 539910 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-84-9.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has no idea what a country does with both a Prime Minister *and* a President
< 1357448975 370909 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm wait no prime minister, but the previous one < 1357448976 705333 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"He has served as President since 1996; he was unopposed in 2000, re-elected for a third term in 2004, re-elected unopposed for a fourth term in 2008 and re-elected for a record fifth term in 2012" hm < 1357448979 371144 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :what kmc said < 1357448980 685525 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1357448988 488418 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should go back < 1357448996 102978 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can you not love a place with such an awesome language < 1357449000 886759 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geir_Haarde < 1357449004 735430 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll go with you < 1357449009 353240 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreyKnight: you should read up more about how government works, then < 1357449012 495594 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's quite sensible < 1357449012 666186 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you speak Icelandic? < 1357449025 277257 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db426e1.pool.mediaWays.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1357449033 351242 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i speak english, which is practically the same thing < 1357449036 862054 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-84-9.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I know how government works, just not that type of government < 1357449063 650425 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a pretty common type of government... < 1357449090 91528 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreyKnight: I mean government generally < 1357449090 380511 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The Landsdómur is a special high court in Iceland which was established in 1905" "The court has assembled for the first time in 2011" I like it! < 1357449137 220078 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-84-9.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know how general governance can shed any light on something that specific to a particular model... < 1357449143 791346 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MADc0vCd52o < 1357449160 643221 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreyKnight: head of state and head of government, it's pretty general < 1357449178 152386 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think iceland should go back to their old form of government :D < 1357449195 757993 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-84-9.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A better idea would be to learn more about that particular kind of government < 1357449195 930129 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-84-9.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :However I am already reading about other things < 1357449196 257927 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :they hold a thing every year and this time, they invite the world < 1357449197 300444 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You mean the one libertarians love? < 1357449204 542333 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :vikings? < 1357449204 712970 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that. < 1357449219 827143 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Apparently their parliament is still called the Althing! < 1357449228 231076 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreyKnight: no, learn about government generally < 1357449239 653352 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreyKnight: Because then the system makes sense and you have learned more < 1357449244 427750 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: but its not the same !!!! < 1357449274 192570 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, monqy Fiora < 1357449279 377727 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: it's those damn new "christian" people, making all them newfangled governments everywhere < 1357449290 259454 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :christiania < 1357449291 618592 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-84-9.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope :-U < 1357449292 451876 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-84-9.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike almost clarified it (he didn't specifically mention that President is head of state but I assume this one) < 1357449300 237613 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :no Thursday without Thor! < 1357449307 585675 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or should I say Þor? < 1357449329 802425 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-84-9.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you see now I understand and didn't need to learn any generalities. Only a specific thing, like I said. < 1357449355 110414 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :governmental category theory: something that needs to exist < 1357449375 230299 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-84-9.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :\o/ < 1357449390 601599 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-84-9.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm I might give a happy \o/ as well since Þ is my second-favourite letter. But not sure. Also I am beginning to sound like zzo38 for some reason. < 1357449413 990850 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Þór < 1357449417 884177 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1357449425 162486 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :thørjan < 1357449444 418684 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :norwegian doesn't have Þ for what it's worth < 1357449458 178616 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :_our_ parliament is called the Storting. < 1357449460 27009 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :takørjan? < 1357449476 305132 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: cognate? < 1357449510 927971 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: sure, both are from the same old norse concept < 1357449519 199404 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, thing / þing / ding / ting is a germanic word for a governing assembly < 1357449522 687442 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1357449543 341459 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreyKnight: where are you from? < 1357449548 604189 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :iceland has the Alþingi which is the oldest extant parliamentary institution in the world < 1357449557 223934 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :first held outside in 930 AD < 1357449572 395876 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :do they still hold it outside < 1357449576 776970 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1357449589 193272 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1357449598 353992 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :they have a nice little house in reykjavík < 1357449609 721953 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-84-9.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Norn Iron < 1357449616 315090 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al%C3%BEingish%C3%BAs < 1357449622 387824 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc it's a surprisingly small house < 1357449624 449975 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Alþingishúsið < 1357449630 650796 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just not the same < 1357449632 759169 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, on the other hand it's a surprisingly small country < 1357449636 491136 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that is pretty small. < 1357449671 300102 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's probably incorrect to anglicize đ as d isn't it < 1357449707 571192 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, what's the difference between đ and ð < 1357449722 8165 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i typed the wrong one < 1357449750 758868 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, they're just totally different letters. cool < 1357449751 135140 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :how the bloody hell do i type ð < 1357449759 104805 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i don't think đ is in icelandic < 1357449760 158354 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :altgr-d here < 1357449764 944958 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't have an altgr < 1357449769 150679 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :got a compose key instead < 1357449769 321306 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_Abductions < 1357449785 543443 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-84-9.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :idea: USB AltGr key < 1357449791 828209 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :compose þ d, clearly < 1357449797 744156 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-84-9.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :just plug it in and enjoy the wonders of AltGr < 1357449802 362019 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreyKnight: brushed metal, sell it for $50 to mac users < 1357449812 951941 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreyKnight: what < 1357449819 997817 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :northern ireland? < 1357449826 202645 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: It seems that my uncle is moving to the Bronx. < 1357449832 332307 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-84-9.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly with a soft backlight < 1357449832 541201 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-84-9.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norn_Iron < 1357449848 747979 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll have to find a new transportation route! < 1357449850 957841 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :why does vietnamese of all things have đ... which, of course, I don't know how to type < 1357449860 677503 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-84-9.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's pronounced "Norn Iron" akshully < 1357449881 712163 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :because tiếng Việt has every latin diacritic as a matter of principle < 1357449895 165575 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm i should look up who the hell designed modern vietnamese < 1357449902 569673 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-84-9.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :including stacking them high, apparently < 1357449923 474656 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm guessing somebody french. i will blame the french for the machine-gunned-looking alphabet < 1357449947 438309 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-84-9.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :designed by Pierre Q. Diacritic < 1357449963 891140 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :friedrich h. coca-cola < 1357449972 502953 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-84-9.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean er Pierre Q. Díäcrìtĩc < 1357449990 572293 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It is based on the Latin script (more specifically the Portuguese alphabet[1])" gah < 1357450018 153307 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-84-9.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Portugal is *like* France < 1357450054 530630 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I keep forgetting that Portugal did things on the world stage back in the day. Imperializing shit all over the damn place I tells ya. < 1357450060 94536 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1357450074 826002 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :they had a peace treaty with Spain mediated by The Freaking Pope < 1357450081 316077 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just thought "oh, france, they killed vietnamese people for a few decades, i can probably blame them right" < 1357450122 977163 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-84-9.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION imagines The Freaking Pope is an actual title due to capitalisation
< 1357450133 204351 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, christian missionaries. that's pretty obvious really. < 1357450139 335204 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or as he's known today, @pontifex < 1357450147 914267 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :". These informal efforts led eventually to the development of the present Vietnamese alphabet, largely by the work of French Jesuit Alexandre de Rhodes" i am vindicated! < 1357450156 927641 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :somebody should make twitter accounts for historical psychotic-bastard-style popes < 1357450174 940848 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :alexander vi's is actually a sex tips blog < 1357450187 891829 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-84-9.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This might be the lack of sleep talking, but coproduct injections are pretty funny < 1357450213 63892 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote This might be the lack of sleep talking, but coproduct injections are pretty funny < 1357450215 7240 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody expects the cypriot injunction < 1357450219 882105 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :900) This might be the lack of sleep talking, but coproduct injections are pretty funny < 1357450237 135155 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think the most abstract thing that i've found really hilarious is the proof of the law of the excluded middle using continuations < 1357450251 379040 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-84-9.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't seen that < 1357450255 893693 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a nice proof. < 1357450264 72619 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember when kmc explained it in #haskell. < 1357450266 255421 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"back in the day" < 1357450308 650608 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-84-9.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a link for it? < 1357450313 481039 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dictionarium_Annamiticum_Lusitanum_et_Latinum So, end blame: France. And cointuitionistic proofs or something something < 1357450325 270146 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreyKnight: basically, you claim "A is false", i.e. "A -> Void", and then when somebody calls your bluff by calling that function with a value of type A, you use the continuation to go back in time and claim that A was true all along, with their value as evidence < 1357450377 460168 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-84-9.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D < 1357450413 301193 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-84-9.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :proof by virtue of I'm always right even if I have to mangle the spacetime continuum to pull it off < 1357450415 793220 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :in pseudo-haskell: callCC (\k -> Left (\v -> k (Right v))) < 1357450427 738701 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t callCC (\k -> Left (\v -> k (Right v))) < 1357450429 422198 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: < 1357450429 592491 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : t0 = Either (b1 -> t0) b0 < 1357450429 592701 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : In the return type of a call of `k' < 1357450436 804495 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :FOUL < 1357450437 633080 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Did you see Oleg's DNE thing, by the way? < 1357450443 684035 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : in pseudo-haskell < 1357450446 167266 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :@quote oleg < 1357450446 338463 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oleg says: Unfortunately, once it became clear that the ideas are working out, the motivation fizzled. < 1357450453 661428 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :@quote Oleg < 1357450453 833944 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oleg says: We show how to program with the law of excluded middle. We specifically avoid call/cc, which is overrated. < 1357450455 756894 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it ignores the fact that continuations are not functions, for clarity < 1357450460 819335 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-84-9.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: we need pseudolambdabot for this one < 1357450484 977261 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: You can write a function :: forall a. (forall m. Monad m => ((a -> m F) -> m F)) -> a < 1357450488 595244 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where F is Void < 1357450500 748086 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :neat < 1357450504 617998 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t \k -> Left (\v -> k (Right v))) < 1357450506 447370 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :parse error on input `)' < 1357450511 239546 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t \k -> Left (\v -> k (Right v)) < 1357450513 328438 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Either a b1 -> t) -> Either (b1 -> t) b < 1357450518 510448 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That gives you an actual a in the end, not that weak (a -> r) -> r nonsense. < 1357450526 716839 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :We show how to program with the law of excluded middle. We specifically avoid call/cc, which is overrated. < 1357450535 605311 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t callCC (\k -> return (Left (\v -> k (Right v)))) < 1357450536 641014 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :MonadCont m => m (Either (b1 -> m b) b1) < 1357450540 492303 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://okmij.org/ftp/Computation/lem.html < 1357450544 162973 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ty callCC (return . fix) < 1357450545 732079 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :MonadCont m => m (m b) < 1357450552 815146 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1357450561 481981 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@let getCC = callCC (return . fix) < 1357450561 827026 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t callCC (\k -> return (Left (k . Right))) < 1357450563 525678 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :MonadCont m => m (Either (b1 -> m b) b1) < 1357450563 860778 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Defined. < 1357450567 481192 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :getCC is great. < 1357450572 244610 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t getCC < 1357450574 122006 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :MonadCont m => m (m b) < 1357450583 517483 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It gives you the current continuation. < 1357450584 859152 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :neat < 1357450594 127303 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-84-9.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :madness < 1357450594 480263 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's more powerful than callCC, of course. < 1357450601 473972 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can do infinite loops and things with it. < 1357450605 413751 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t do { k <- getCC; k 3 } < 1357450606 632579 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Num a, MonadCont ((->) a)) => a -> b < 1357450607 221561 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That's why you need fix to define it.) < 1357450608 242230 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :more powerful...? < 1357450618 775983 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-84-9.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about a nice juicy shift/reset pair? < 1357450635 630409 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't return things, though? < 1357450640 816493 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean there's no way to get a 'b' in < 1357450663 606949 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cont on its own is maybe not as interesting as ContT with something else. < 1357450676 217895 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :k <- getCC gives you a sort of goto label. < 1357450676 595831 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-84-9.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps shachaf means "more powerful" to be "differently powerful" < 1357450691 846349 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can then use the action it gives you to jump back to that point. < 1357450725 737696 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not very interesting from the logic perspective, as far as I can tell. :-) < 1357450740 664276 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think monochrom wrote about it. < 1357450744 214440 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@google trebla callCC < 1357450745 916264 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.vex.net/~trebla/haskell/cont-monad.xhtml < 1357450845 580244 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can probably extend this to passing information without too much trouble. < 1357450889 219913 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-84-9.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :left as an exercise for the reader < 1357450918 172532 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's basically just trivial. < 1357450965 853022 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-84-9.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 144 < 1357450967 551609 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :144) It's like mathematicians, where the next step up from "trivial" is "open research question". "Nope... No...This problem can't be done AT ALL. This one--maybe, but only with two yaks and a sherpa. ..." < 1357451177 252877 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see < 1357451272 431884 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So where does a research question about making proving identities trivial fall < 1357451311 146470 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need those yaks for the yak wool < 1357451316 76343 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The law of excluded middle states that every proposition is either trivially true or trivially false. < 1357451331 782450 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-84-9.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: I'd answer your query, but unfortunately that's an open research question. < 1357451355 592863 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That doesn't mean that you shouldn't answer, just that your answer will be a great publishing opportunity. < 1357451366 296548 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-84-9.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: TLDR all mathematics is useless, let's go to the beach QED < 1357451384 394156 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: checkmate intuitionists! < 1357451387 451557 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's an actual position, you know (except less caricatured) < 1357451413 17576 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-84-9.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which "that"? < 1357451433 676564 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :all propositions are trivially true or false, therefore lolmath < 1357451449 758597 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately i forget the name because "trivialism" is something else entirely < 1357451453 493021 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-84-9.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There should be a "No Pronouns Day". No Pronouns Day would be a good time, I think. I would enjoy No Pronouns Day. < 1357451455 170025 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"For each problem in section B, either prove that the problem is in P or that it's NP-complete. (Extra credit for doing both.)" < 1357451466 190001 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreyKnight: you? < 1357451488 358605 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreyKnight: I wouldn't be around to enjoy No Pronouns Day, duh < 1357451496 863044 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: lol. < 1357451509 555832 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which webcomic is "checkmate" from < 1357451526 528950 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought "checkmate atheists" was just a meme. < 1357451532 459538 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: chess? < 1357451552 405296 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-84-9.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh poop < 1357451556 647865 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it's not from a webcomic < 1357451559 684237 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Free monads are also "pretty nifty??" < 1357451562 4339 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/checkmate-atheists < 1357451568 482712 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: you get what you pay for < 1357451578 672857 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-84-9.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :related: http://pbfcomics.com/99/ < 1357451581 517337 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: What about cofree comonads? < 1357451583 879611 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: hey no fair i was going to link that < 1357451591 164640 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :edwardk likes those, I think. < 1357451630 177529 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is homestuck so great lately < 1357451639 691869 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aw, "checkmate" was a joke. Well, at least I have Atheist Nightmare to keep me warm < 1357451649 166207 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: except, um, that page sucks, it doesn't explain anything < 1357451697 925921 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/good-guy-lucifer < 1357451730 260114 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should check to see if their Ron Paul article has gotten less hilarious. < 1357451740 95400 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ron paul: apply directly to the forehead < 1357451783 268152 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"On February 22nd, 2012, opponent Rick Santorum aggressively shook Paul’s hand during the GOP candidate debate." ehhhh not quite the same < 1357451792 548102 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The week before the caucus, Paul had the most Twitter mentions as well as the most new YouTube subscribers." < 1357451809 744042 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: oh wait, i got the wrong page < 1357451850 575313 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/masonry/000/228/139/18qv.jpg now we're talkin'. < 1357452135 898668 :TeruFSX!~TeruFSX@65-128-142-102.mpls.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1357452568 797558 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, i'm readng chaitin's book on the diophantine thing, and he uses lisp with single-character variable names, in APL's character set. is there a reliable test to see if i'm actually in some caricatured hell? < 1357452592 500195 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < Bike> so, i'm readng chaitin's book on the diophantine thing, and he uses lisp with single-character variable names, in APL's character set. is there a reliable test to see if i'm actually in some caricatured hell? < 1357452593 948711 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1357452610 409912 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: WRONG FORMAT < 1357452622 405544 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also wrong command < 1357452666 397679 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the right format < 1357452672 864137 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote so, i'm readng chaitin's book on the diophantine thing, and he uses lisp with single-character variable names, in APL's character set. is there a reliable test to see if i'm actually in some caricatured hell? < 1357452676 266977 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :901) so, i'm readng chaitin's book on the diophantine thing, and he uses lisp with single-character variable names, in APL's character set. is there a reliable test to see if i'm actually in some caricatured hell? < 1357452676 860072 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :happy? < 1357452679 162582 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1357452680 535872 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :882) i bet a blog post complaining about ");});});" syntax in JavaScript and comparing it unfavorably to Lisp would get approximately one billion comments on hacker news but at what cost? your very soul, kmc! < 1357452684 483107 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :HAPPY HAPPY < 1357452686 905349 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :!oerjan addquote < Bike> so, i'm readng chaitin's book on the diophantine thing, and he uses lisp with single-character variable names, in APL's character set. is there a reliable test to see if i'm actually in some caricatured hell? < 1357452687 727354 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1357452692 339903 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :two quotes? wow i'm internet famous < 1357452698 297918 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :no just one < 1357452699 890121 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1357452701 233486 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :634) characters in tv series should learn to check the timestamp before they get their hopes up... *no chance* this will work at 10 minutes into the episode < 1357452704 599953 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1357452707 84882 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are not allowed to be internet famous < 1357452717 995705 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1357452719 365078 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :40) I spent the last minute or so killing myself repeatedly < 1357452725 512129 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, I like that one < 1357452728 185975 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw < 1357452734 897128 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :we are approaching the 10th (!) anniversary of logs < 1357452743 643420 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1357452748 690776 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there gonna be a party? < 1357452755 260471 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1357452764 457903 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :will you stand as a candidate in your home riding? < 1357452768 986550 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :will it be a good party or a bad party < 1357452770 426209 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, at least he uses lexical scope. small mercies < 1357452772 718314 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's a riding < 1357452801 702626 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_district_(Canada) < 1357452804 251085 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :when-it's-time-to-party-we-will-party-hard < 1357452804 494092 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: it will be a caricatured hell party. this does not answer your question. < 1357452808 892395 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :♫ [HEAD BANGING] ♫ < 1357452830 733382 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-84-9.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :like a march, only different < 1357452853 978867 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Can I stand as a candidate in my home circonscription? That sounds, like, totally cooler. < 1357452890 283647 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: ok < 1357452924 611286 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-84-9.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :⍞ PARTY HARD ⍕ < 1357452927 684975 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, no dotted pairs either < 1357452947 53541 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are those characters? < 1357452948 488143 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :party hard, let's go shopping < 1357452965 269761 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: APL FUNCTIONAL SYMBOL QUOTE QUAD etc < 1357452978 243680 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreyKnight: the latter is eval, apparently < 1357452982 195178 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike, who is "he" < 1357452992 452735 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-84-9.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: quote quad and format < 1357453003 893652 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: chaitin < 1357453013 524284 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-84-9.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no execute is ⍎ < 1357453024 844105 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1357453028 998734 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: you are american < 1357453032 989238 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the past tense of kidnap < 1357453035 132859 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry you're wrong greyknight i've got the book like right here < 1357453040 272831 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike, better yet: Link? < 1357453049 59094 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um, I think I pirated this? I forget. < 1357453050 154630 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kidnoop < 1357453060 275192 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait, are you actually talking about Chaitin of Chaitin's constant defining a Lisp? < 1357453067 855775 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: stockholmed < 1357453072 123009 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yes, is there another one < 1357453076 957913 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: also panic < 1357453087 305014 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i suppose there is. I don't know much about... shit i don't even know where he's from. argentina?) < 1357453097 363356 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: the book is "Algorithmic Information Theory", boringly enough < 1357453111 819948 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why am I surprised that he's still around < 1357453112 367138 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1357453116 422992 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is pretty old. < 1357453123 284295 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nowadays he's busy being insane. "metabiology" < 1357453148 869728 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreyKnight: apparently in his thing ⍎ is eval with timeout. The More You Know. < 1357453175 490074 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: ZZZ < 1357453247 543525 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-84-9.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: which book? Perhaps this is a point of variance between APLs (?) < 1357453258 152385 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: kidnapped? paniced? < 1357453279 943017 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreyKnight: I wasn't kidding when I said he was using Lisp but with one character names in APL characters. < 1357453290 406795 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :@wn panicked < 1357453290 960727 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :*** "panicked" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)" < 1357453291 132984 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :panicked < 1357453291 133155 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : adj 1: thrown into a state of intense fear or desperation; < 1357453291 133268 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "became panicky as the snow deepened"; "felt panicked < 1357453291 133379 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : before each exam"; "trying to keep back the panic- < 1357453292 946086 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :[3 @more lines] < 1357453306 478810 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreyKnight: if you gimme the del character real fast i can give you a code sample. < 1357453344 617072 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's kind of crazy that no verb fails to have the "ing" form for the progressive aspect < 1357453354 450473 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-84-9.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :∇ < 1357453384 908487 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: really, none? < 1357453394 315785 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a one < 1357453404 278402 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :not even "be", which is the most irregular verb by far < 1357453407 831024 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-84-9.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh so you're not actually in APL? Your characters may mean something different then, perhaps Chaitin got mixed up himself :-) < 1357453419 735152 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreyKnight: (⍎('(1))('(('(∇(x)x))a))) < 1357453421 23169 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it has three forms more than any other verb) < 1357453438 269450 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :"be" "is" "are" "were" "was" "being" "been" "am" < 1357453439 378110 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: nasty < 1357453458 116444 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :bonus: (∇(x)x) is actually a lambda expression < 1357453493 74656 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-84-9.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so he uses ⍎ for eval? < 1357453517 768250 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eval with timeout. The first argument, i.e. ('(1)), means to halt the eval if a second function application is hit. < 1357453527 449487 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(there are no actual numbers) < 1357453529 14145 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(fuck) < 1357453593 829248 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-84-9.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :does ('(1)) break down into something meaningful or is it a magic incantation? < 1357453626 604793 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's an encoded numeral. One element list, so it means 1. < 1357453679 792355 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-84-9.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this looks wacky, I think I would need to read the book for context < 1357453684 437710 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't really have anything to do with APL I think. He mentions it was "the biggest character set he could find" or something. < 1357453691 597400 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-84-9.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how did we get onto this < 1357453693 435952 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-84-9.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah < 1357453699 630467 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Me! All me! Mwa hahahaha < 1357453731 57680 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-84-9.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :as you can see I am not wrong B-) < 1357453762 650899 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-84-9.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The biggest problem in communication is assuming it has taken place" :-D < 1357453767 59813 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yeah. the closest i've gotten to APL is reading A Programming Language enough to be annoyed at one-indexed arrays, and staring at J's installer < 1357453908 922591 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, wow, he actually uses "m-expressions" too. "wacky" is not enough for this. < 1357453949 2127 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-84-9.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :1-indexing is natural with mathematical matrices, APL arrays probably are genealogically closer to them than to "computer" arrays < 1357453973 332472 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION should try to read about m-expressions
< 1357453976 838930 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-84-9.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :remember back when M-expressions where a thing < 1357453986 669702 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-84-9.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*were (kill me) < 1357454023 970407 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-84-9.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :although fexprs are making a comeback so maybe M-expressions will too?? < 1357454035 433152 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Racket has support for "@-expressions" < 1357454040 480991 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure if that's the proper term < 1357454049 231345 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreyKnight: I know they are (re APL), i just found it annoying for bad reasons < 1357454064 354763 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should probably try the book again. i'm less shitty with matrices now, anyway. < 1357454073 924649 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-84-9.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :compromise: 0.5-based arrays < 1357454149 759502 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :old joke < 1357454176 535230 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :old Bike < 1357454202 25114 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :old chaf < 1357454205 748137 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-84-9.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :⍴⍴⍴Bike = 1 < 1357454347 881957 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :⍴⍴⍴reduce, gently down the stream < 1357454394 977002 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-84-9.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rho, rho, rho of X // Always equals 1 // Rho is dimension, rho rho rank // APL is fun! < 1357454406 604447 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-84-9.dab.02.net QUIT :Quit: ⍎fungot < 1357454675 902123 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :you spent far too much time on that < 1357454688 139442 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :also you messed up the tune < 1357454712 319806 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :"row row row reduce // gently down the page // one mistake and you'll be baked // so check at ev'ry stage! < 1357455347 779221 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is currently strugging with how to provide functions non-statically
< 1357455389 204235 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1357455476 16365 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in, I evaluate with eval a define form that defines a function. How do I expose this function to other Racket modules < 1357455533 59829 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't define toplevel (or uh modulelevel) functions in eval? that seems implausible < 1357455564 403441 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I tried, I got provide: not at module level in: (provide x) < 1357455582 638098 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can define them all right. Just not have them importable from the rest of Racket < 1357455626 235088 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really want it to be a one-way street, would be nice to write Racket code that could call Qoppa functions < 1357455639 611899 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :practical! > 1357455927 498265 JOIN :#esoteric > 1357455931 627098 JOIN :#esoteric > 1357455932 142665 JOIN :#esoteric > 1357455964 935692 JOIN :#esoteric > 1357455969 61934 JOIN :#esoteric > 1357455969 577562 JOIN :#esoteric > 1357456004 989357 JOIN :#esoteric > 1357456009 115951 JOIN :#esoteric > 1357456009 632680 JOIN :#esoteric > 1357456045 41165 JOIN :#esoteric > 1357456049 166287 JOIN :#esoteric > 1357456049 681794 JOIN :#esoteric > 1357456085 87727 JOIN :#esoteric > 1357456089 212996 JOIN :#esoteric > 1357456089 729337 JOIN :#esoteric > 1357456125 141394 JOIN :#esoteric > 1357456129 266323 JOIN :#esoteric > 1357456129 782431 JOIN :#esoteric > 1357456165 188046 JOIN :#esoteric > 1357456169 314138 JOIN :#esoteric > 1357456169 831057 JOIN :#esoteric > 1357456205 239812 JOIN :#esoteric > 1357456209 367473 JOIN :#esoteric > 1357456209 883343 JOIN :#esoteric > 1357456245 288678 JOIN :#esoteric > 1357456249 415723 JOIN :#esoteric > 1357456249 923147 JOIN :#esoteric > 1357456285 340113 JOIN :#esoteric > 1357456289 467134 JOIN :#esoteric > 1357456290 566775 JOIN :#esoteric > 1357456325 390812 JOIN :#esoteric > 1357456329 517885 JOIN :#esoteric > 1357456330 33639 JOIN :#esoteric > 1357456365 447593 JOIN :#esoteric > 1357456369 574525 JOIN :#esoteric > 1357456370 90250 JOIN :#esoteric > 1357456405 501697 JOIN :#esoteric > 1357456409 627933 JOIN :#esoteric > 1357456410 144028 JOIN :#esoteric > 1357456445 553564 JOIN :#esoteric > 1357456449 679878 JOIN :#esoteric > 1357456450 196078 JOIN :#esoteric > 1357456475 597106 JOIN :#esoteric < 1357456476 297265 :glogbot!codu@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1357456477 172505 :glogbackup!~glogbacku@64.31.59.246 PART :#esoteric < 1357456478 460666 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric > 1357456479 725153 JOIN :#esoteric > 1357456480 232448 JOIN :#esoteric < 1357456590 394960 :Gregor!codu@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1357456879 750063 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f5f3.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1357457083 991845 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f5f3.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ask gregor can we add apps.google.com to the whitelist so hackego can fetch some services on it? also it would be cool if the result of fetch (the response itself) would be put out on the stdout enabling the user to pipe it to other shell progs. what do you think? < 1357457084 172009 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1357457089 91312 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike, I think I have an answer, although it kind of sucks: Provide a function capable of reaching into the Qoppa environment for the specified function. < 1357457102 171071 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :require won't wor... I can make require work < 1357457106 224314 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're right, that does suck. < 1357457118 259037 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe #racket could tell you something better? < 1357457127 73007 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :n/m. I don't know if require can be made to work with that < 1357457154 615673 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I asked on #racket , I think people are asleep < 1357457561 723881 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd: `fetch has no whitelist, and currently sandboxed apps have no external access at all. < 1357457561 961396 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. < 1357457747 852831 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f5f3.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :gregor: what do you mean by no external access at all? i just would like to use my own rest-services, serving json data for example.. and pipe them to other shell progs < 1357457765 667297 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f5f3.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but oerjan mentioned some restrictions < 1357457780 824409 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f5f3.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and whitelist < 1357457794 3432 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd: There used to be an HTTP proxy with a whitelist. < 1357457799 45999 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's not right now, I borked it. < 1357457809 826147 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f5f3.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :aw ok < 1357457919 476024 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f5f3.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :gregor: so, the other thing is the output itself. for now it returns the name of the file the response is saved to, right? but imho it'd be more efficient to directly push it to the stdout < 1357457952 106786 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd: "stdout" doesn't make any sense. fetch doesn't run in the sandbox, and can't be used from the sandbox. It's totally isolated. < 1357458098 806967 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f5f3.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay.. i'm not sure about the restrictions or conventions of that sandbox you're talking about. but it _would make sense_ to have the possibility of using external webservices.. don't see security risks there < 1357458208 546378 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f5f3.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if i get you right fetch is one of hackegos special functions < 1357458228 824882 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f5f3.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :not directly running the shell < 1357458230 654691 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f5f3.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :right? < 1357458243 100226 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f5f3.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls bin < 1357458307 597964 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f5f3.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the shell/sandbox < 1357458474 501090 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f5f3.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :gregor: however the result of fetch is saved somewhere in that sandbox, isn't it? < 1357458556 582390 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it's definitely a good idea to have it possible to use external services, but that would have nothing to do with `fetch. < 1357458563 761743 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is /designed/ to give such access, it's just broken. < 1357458569 59583 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Squeak enough and I may even fix it. < 1357458580 49957 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f5f3.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :superb < 1357458583 753086 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f5f3.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank you < 1357459455 550787 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It almost makes sense though not being able to mutate the functions a module provides < 1357459461 977907 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least, in a static language it makes sense < 1357459501 940283 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you're at the repl defining functions, what module do they go in? < 1357459516 380031 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think those are in the top-level < 1357459519 383414 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Outside of any module < 1357460000 833814 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@188.134.41.173 JOIN :#esoteric < 1357460379 731979 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-17-59-127.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1357463227 101124 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1357464720 313014 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: that short story reminded me of Idoru for some reason < 1357465540 399730 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1357466178 523546 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1357466407 551962 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1357466423 122022 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1357467946 21850 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-17-59-127.as13285.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1357468140 712497 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-17-59-127.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1357468438 845951 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1357470698 15932 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1357470795 147138 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1357471126 193372 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/ruby/comments/161mik/whys_site_is_back_up_link_to_discussion_on_hacker/ < 1357471411 945090 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does everyone use DH instead of FHMQV? < 1357471461 953783 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1357471508 288049 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :note: dh = diffie-hellman, fhmqv = fully hashed menezes-qu-vanstone < 1357471528 766629 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see any reason not to, considering performance and security < 1357471735 140825 :Nisstyre-laptop!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1357472586 143127 :VorpalPhone!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal JOIN :#esoteric < 1357474074 579682 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu < 1357474661 737246 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal JOIN :#esoteric < 1357475064 836506 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1357475104 384322 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1357476111 14376 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f5f3.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sgeo: what is that boulvard talk you are linking to and _why? < 1357476205 75031 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :boulvard talk? < 1357476224 661987 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f5f3.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :boulevard < 1357476243 817771 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could you repeat what I said, I'm not sure what you're referring to < 1357476256 744551 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f5f3.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/ruby/comments/161mik/whys_site_is_back_up_link_to_discussion_on_hacker/ < 1357476293 462079 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :_why renewed his domain name and put a weird puzzle on it < 1357476325 465983 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea what boulevard is or how (s)he/it comes into play < 1357476471 23093 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.169.78 JOIN :#esoteric < 1357476502 288388 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f5f3.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :boulevard-talk is is another word for gossip < 1357476531 257166 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f5f3.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Gossip is idle talk or rumor about the personal or private affairs of others. It is one of the oldest and most common means of sharing facts, views and slander. This term is used pejoratively by its reputation for the introduction of errors and variations into the information transmitted, and it also describes idle chat, a rumor of personal, or trivial nature." < 1357476564 936027 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1357476586 940914 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I managed to misread _why as asking why? < 1357476592 196675 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's disturbing on my part < 1357476603 710011 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f5f3.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was kind of a word play ;) < 1357476606 974776 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f5f3.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i must admit < 1357476610 884315 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still don't get the whole thing with _why < 1357476622 434845 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :people trying to stalk him down and so on seemed incredibly creepy < 1357477150 443947 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f5f3.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e0/Hans_Weiditz09.jpg/800px-Hans_Weiditz09.jpg <-- this one is called "gossip women and the devil".. 16th century < 1357477193 503093 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f5f3.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes ceepy is the right word i guess < 1357477462 848544 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fiora: that just happens to celebrities generally, I think < 1357477606 357134 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f5f3.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the dark side of fame < 1357477632 65241 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :was he really that famous? I never even heard of him before the drama >_>; < 1357477700 876199 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f5f3.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :me neither < 1357477801 101211 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f5f3.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why i orginally asked sgeo about his link. i thought it may be someone once hanging around here < 1357477837 89995 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f5f3.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or sth else related < 1357477849 427973 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :He was a famous Ruby person < 1357477876 111170 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f5f3.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair enough < 1357477880 16860 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f5f3.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1357477896 328530 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly the problem is with the ruby fandom < 1357477978 796839 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-17-59-127.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember back when I was famous < 1357478033 110441 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f5f3.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :^rot13 Taneb < 1357478055 584044 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f5f3.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :all bots are on strike < 1357478066 389259 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-17-59-127.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's nothing that great < 1357478097 676782 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f5f3.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :was trying to stalk your real identity < 1357478129 306694 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-17-59-127.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Taneb" is a portmanteau of reverses of the first three letters of my name and my brother's name < 1357478147 100783 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f5f3.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool.. pretty secure < 1357478163 339967 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-17-59-127.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My alt nick, "Ngevd", is my initials < 1357478181 74673 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-17-59-127.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plus an E that was almost one of my initials < 1357478190 841506 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :my name is... a fire emblem character whose name I liked < 1357478196 689776 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-17-59-127.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I live in the same town as elliott < 1357478209 287414 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-17-59-127.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who I believe gets his nick from the fact that it's his name < 1357478240 330672 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My nick is based off my first and last name < 1357478249 514936 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, I think these days my real name is rather public, so < 1357478265 967831 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-17-59-127.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgrawny Eomer < 1357478273 619849 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seth Gold < 1357478285 30933 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It feels so weird to say that in cha < 1357478285 983248 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :chat < 1357478408 634668 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f5f3.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it is. now you're not safe from all the gropies waiting outside your door < 1357478420 932683 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f5f3.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*groupies < 1357478516 96827 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f5f3.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :though famous nerds don't have groupie fans i guess (not meaning you in first case sgeo :) < 1357478535 278225 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-17-59-127.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd hate to have gropies waiting outside my door < 1357478544 714565 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-17-59-127.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually... < 1357478549 466041 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-17-59-127.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that's happened < 1357478555 80654 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fiora: Which short story? Chiang? < 1357478563 206134 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah < 1357478569 750432 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one you posted < 1357478573 412070 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have not read Idoru. < 1357478591 394630 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's basically about a japanese virtual super-idol that takes over pop culture I think < 1357478611 84375 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's probably doubly wonderful reading it with modern context < 1357478624 200581 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :given that the prediction (partially) came true < 1357479159 986175 :VorpalPhone!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal QUIT :Quit: Bye < 1357479467 210013 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-17-59-127.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Edvard Grieg looks like Mark Twain < 1357479470 548338 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Idoru!idoru@freenode/utility-bot/ex-server/idoru < 1357479604 400477 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm ambivalent about opengl 2+. On one hand, it doesn't do any matrix operations for you. On the other hand, I just figured out that my program doesn't need any matrix operations. < 1357479648 573038 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-17-59-127.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the other hand, if I try to bend that far I will break... < 1357479655 219684 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-17-59-127.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the other hand... there is no other hand. < 1357479656 171958 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-17-59-127.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No! < 1357479670 508752 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the gripping hand! < 1357479683 128563 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the other hand is my other hand < 1357479704 146364 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-17-59-127.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the other hand is your foot. Would you please move it? < 1357479707 359783 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f5f3.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :jafet: no matrix operations? how is that? how do you do transformations without matrix operations? and now don't say tensor-operations < 1357479732 921905 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :My program just computes the texture. < 1357479738 552713 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-17-59-127.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :quarternions? < 1357479771 151348 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f5f3.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :jafet: back to the roots: what program are we talking about anyway? < 1357479775 713508 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use opengl as a high-performance hardware-accelerated texture display platform. < 1357479792 63224 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could "easily" define a language that is just Racket except able to easily use Qoppa functions without wrapping the name in some function explicitely < 1357479810 638186 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's kind of a sucky way to approach interop though < 1357479812 470143 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f5f3.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting.. so in that case the transformations are just two-dimensional? < 1357479821 262446 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are no transformations. < 1357479822 694225 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not interoping with Racket, but rather interoping with a Racket-like language < 1357479828 101741 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just write one quad directly into screen space. < 1357479835 810725 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or technically, clip space. < 1357479841 289603 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f5f3.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1357479856 366609 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, hmm, I have a "better" idea < 1357479875 400110 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :@quote premature.general < 1357479875 639471 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ksf says: ...premature generalisation is the root of all procrastination. < 1357479876 116344 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A require transformer, that ... is that a legal way to write a require transformer < 1357480303 963216 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Two plausible approaches: New language for interop with Qoppa, and require transformer that requires functions from Qoppa to be explicitly listed < 1357480424 532282 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, the latter might not work so well < 1357480431 892719 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :require transformers are ... hmm < 1357480619 611993 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, what sort of partition table is normally used on ARM based linux systems? I assume it isn't MBR-based, that seems silly < 1357482075 561226 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some of them do GPT, I think. < 1357482122 411674 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm okay < 1357482211 282751 :carado!~user4539@2a01:e35:8b61:e430:6ef0:49ff:fe73:1fd0 JOIN :#esoteric < 1357482838 398225 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, why does the processor affect how the disk is partitioned? < 1357483394 776661 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f5f3.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sgeo: i don't know anything about racket, but why do you want to implement interop-ability from "within" and not by using a standard interface like a webservice? i don't see how you want to manage "real" interopability by not using services, and wonder if ever someone did this successfully < 1357483481 958158 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like using a library. You don't make a webservice to use a library < 1357483500 517154 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Racket, you can make libraries and programs in different languages < 1357483506 785788 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f5f3.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah ok < 1357483526 626971 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f5f3.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and.. does it work? < 1357483558 437752 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f5f3.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :are they compiled to rudementary common language like the ILM code in .net? < 1357483588 300391 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f5f3.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even down to assembler? < 1357483621 431720 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're compiled to Racket < 1357483628 692163 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f5f3.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it's worth to give it a look.. < 1357483637 633480 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(approximately) < 1357483688 370991 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The toenails, on the other hand, never grow at all. < 1357483708 1931 :impomatic!~digital_w@46.208.50.63 JOIN :#esoteric < 1357484338 322726 :mig22!~miguelort@bb116-15-66-100.singnet.com.sg QUIT :Quit: mig22 < 1357484702 443750 :Nisstyre-laptop!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre JOIN :#esoteric < 1357485535 16869 :TeruFSX!~TeruFSX@65-128-142-102.mpls.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1357485621 310035 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: now I am tempted to fix all the american english elsewhere on that page :P < 1357485736 635776 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you like Kernel, maybe you'll love #%kernel! < 1357485747 715969 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Note: Kernel and #%kernel are unrelated) < 1357488125 262295 :Nisstyre-laptop!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1357488417 423278 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, anyone know a good lightweight HTTP server that supports SSL and CGI (or SCGI, FastCGI, any of them will do)? With lightweight I mean really lightweight btw. Going to run it on an embedded linux system. < 1357488438 775815 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :won't need to be super fast, low memory usage is more important < 1357488598 302101 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you sure nginx isn't lightweight enough? < 1357488630 441101 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no, I'm performing initial research. Since the hardware has not yet arrived, I can't yet test myself. < 1357488638 363495 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thttpd might work, modulo bitrot < 1357488638 600314 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just trying to figure out what alternatives exist atm < 1357488646 706476 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what embedded system is it out of curiosity < 1357488662 343155 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, RPi, but it will be running quite a few other things than just the web server < 1357488684 472903 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty sure raspberry pi is more than capable of running something like nginx yeah < 1357488706 484550 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :its probably in the repos and stuff since it just uses debian? < 1357488711 708022 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, thing is, it will be handling torrents too (legal only of course), to an external usb disk. Pretty sure that will use up quite a few resources < 1357488729 227653 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :at the very least in the form of file cache < 1357488735 195490 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :legal only im sure < 1357488739 582379 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1357488752 313971 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and openvpn, and irc bouncer. < 1357488752 885333 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway that doesn't sound like the kind of thing that would differ between httpds < 1357488798 842499 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? 512 MB RAM is not much when you are dealing with some multi-GB file downloads at the same time over torrent. That disk cache will be quite well used I suspect < 1357488809 465503 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean < 1357488810 949406 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah I guess I'll start with ngnix and see how it works < 1357488819 491293 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't sound like what webserver you use would really impact how bad that is < 1357488844 294030 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it would possibly free up a few MB extra for other stuff. That was what I was considering < 1357488970 744488 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh nginx has spdy support? Nifty. < 1357489030 861559 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, out of curiosity, what is your opinion on iptables, the various *bsd firewalls and so on? I heard a lot of people complaining about the complexity of iptables. < 1357489108 209561 :KingOfKarlsruhe!~chatzilla@p4FDCF241.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1357489136 636454 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i literally know nothing about firewalls < 1357489143 115998 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have not done a single thing to solidity's < 1357489161 967749 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :solidity's? < 1357489166 975345 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's that < 1357489183 447228 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :esolangs.org server < 1357489186 149488 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1357489219 216832 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :usually I just set up ufw these days. But I don't think that will be enough on the rpi, given how I want to handle OpenVPN. < 1357489240 385738 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I just use ufw < 1357489246 411587 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just a front end to iptables < 1357489252 249090 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but a much neater one than iptables(8) itself < 1357489303 706918 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, any clue how messy it would be to mix in additional rules that ufw can't express, for marking packages (to be used by ip rule later on to use different routing tables for different stuff) < 1357489316 298923 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: probably messy enough that you shouldn't use ufw < 1357489317 325199 :nooga_!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1357489320 64812 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not designed for that situation < 1357489322 989168 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I guess so < 1357489331 92553 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :but using raw iptables is fairly annoying < 1357489343 625308 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/packages/packets/ < 1357489461 297768 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1357489551 188534 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :old question from Vorpal: write a quick one. Keep it minimal and don't write it in a language that uses a lot of memory < 1357489578 199876 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest, write a quick web server on my own? Err, no thanks. < 1357489592 199477 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :too much work, I have better stuff to do < 1357489599 104992 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :really not that much work < 1357489607 833593 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you don't care much about efficiency or features, web servers aren't hard to write < 1357489611 290790 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest, I need https, since I will access it from the public internet < 1357489624 65302 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal; use a library that handles HTTPS < 1357489624 541516 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the stock available ones will be much better than what you could quickly write on your own < 1357489627 465952 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :like boost.asio < 1357489627 979472 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1357489633 948776 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :boost? You are kidding me? < 1357489637 193788 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would I want C++ < 1357489645 318942 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it doesn't use a lot of memory < 1357489650 142823 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1357489656 332695 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :you said "lightweight", I thought "C++" < 1357489665 487108 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest: you can make that statement about some special cases of C++ generally < 1357489666 438766 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :boost does use quite a bit actually. < 1357489667 185643 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not of Boost < 1357489698 365479 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :The server I have here - using boost.asio uses... < 1357489700 687411 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :(let me see) < 1357489709 954002 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :we use it at work, and it sure eats quite a bit of memory based on the profiling results. < 1357489734 252009 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest, asio is async io I presume? You can do that just fine in plain C < 1357489737 667286 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :without any optimization (running debug mode even): 100kib < 1357489771 131318 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I just started it, it should be more < 1357489778 898086 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :the issue with boost is that due to all the templates, for every variant you end up using, you get another copy of the code. < 1357489803 305559 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the binary size grows much quicker than it would have if it just used void* or whatever instead of templating < 1357489819 683856 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the development time would rise for void* < 1357489822 421411 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :(STL suffers from that too to some degree, but boost seems worse) < 1357489839 252925 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest, not really. Compile time would be reduced < 1357489847 482414 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus reducing useless time wasted on that < 1357489891 201405 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never have real problems with compiling taking long < 1357489906 189424 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest, I have had link times for the final binary of over a minute < 1357489912 973975 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you just put the heavy stuff in a different compilation unit, there should be no problem < 1357489913 686453 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :in debug configuration < 1357489923 614996 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh link times < 1357489947 590217 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I have link times of 1s or something, project is well over 10k lines of code using boost and templates < 1357489950 6600 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest, well, we need to link statically since we are targeting embedded. < 1357489970 333763 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could debug with dynamic? < 1357489989 627259 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest, well, not really, it would break stuff. < 1357490002 799565 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't talk about specifics there really < 1357490015 678850 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :well then I can't really suggest a lot < 1357490028 678368 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I do disagree that you should use void* rather than templates < 1357490028 950561 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest, anyway, the project I work on is over 2m loc, not including external libraries such as boost < 1357490051 962491 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wouldn't void* reduce run-time efficiency due to casting anyway? < 1357490083 300708 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note: not sure about that at all) < 1357490084 41514 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest, a cast would be a no-op from assembly POV < 1357490094 517676 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you are actually converting the data (say, int to float) < 1357490104 267985 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, true < 1357490107 840750 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :casting a pointer to another pointer would definitely be a no-op < 1357490122 809263 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :although maybe you could reduce 2 M loc to 1 M loc by using templates < 1357490154 16834 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have 2 m loc you have other problems < 1357490154 770502 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest, btw, including shared_ptr brings in around 200 include files if you count recursively iirc < 1357490164 878373 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also probably it is not worth the time to make it 1m loc < 1357490187 510172 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you should have done that before, of course < 1357490199 648320 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, or you have a very complex system. It is actually fairly well structured into modules and such. It is just that there is so many modules. < 1357490256 119389 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes, although I'd rather that than have to use raw pointers the whole time < 1357490261 632229 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : although maybe you could reduce 2 M loc to 1 M loc by using templates <-- we do use a lot of templates, that is in part what is killing the compile time. < 1357490269 406301 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think i know of any system remotely that large which i wouldn't consider overcomplicated for historical reasons or else preoccupied with dealing with problems it doesn't have to (like being in too low level a language) < 1357490283 476562 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure the chance on bugs and memory leaks is smaller when using stuff like shared_ptr < 1357490288 954081 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well since it is C++ it obviously is in a low level language < 1357490338 99952 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but we have real time requirements, which back when the system was initially created meant something like C or C++. The release binary size is just around 10MB iirc. < 1357490359 216284 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl, food is ready < 1357490360 487014 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: using C++ doesn't mean you have to use it low-level as in constantly using naked pointers and void* < 1357490363 146809 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like it doesn't have to be 2m loc < 1357490370 147969 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest: it sounds like you have never used C < 1357490379 20850 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can do data abstraction without using (void *) in C just fine < 1357490388 671083 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes you can < 1357490396 361973 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :although you have other methods in C++ < 1357490396 542166 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the standard FILE type is abstract and you never need to use (void *) < 1357490399 546898 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can even do oop < 1357490405 406884 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so stop talking about (void *) because it's a complete strawman < 1357490426 493346 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: 1) he suggested using void* 2) no need to write C code in C++ < 1357490498 265162 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway Vorpal, if this is an embedded system, I'm not sure if you will find any lightweight webserver that can be easily embedded < 1357490518 822699 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(1) fine, i didn't read the entire thing. (2) what < 1357490542 809368 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :also "elliott: you can even do oop", not true at all, whatever you say < 1357490551 659521 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is, sorry < 1357490554 806092 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oop is very simple < 1357490561 740709 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it involves some noise in C < 1357490567 162140 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :often it is worth it though < 1357490576 239020 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course the noise gets bigger and bigger if you try and do it exactly like C++ < 1357490582 885365 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :You cannot do true OOP without inheritance, encapsulation and polymorphism < 1357490585 310921 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's unreasonable and not what "OOP" means at all < 1357490594 631926 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha if you think OOP requires inheritance... < 1357490597 600011 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahahaha < 1357490600 573626 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course you can do inheritance in C, I've done it!! < 1357490605 195539 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol people who think they know what oop means < 1357490606 6786 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's my definition of OOP. < 1357490608 345350 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it sounds like you have no idea about what OOP means outside of C++_ < 1357490611 864450 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :inherit, ants < 1357490616 275744 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so how about stop telling people who do know < 1357490643 681710 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: like in C? a language that doesn't even claim to support the OO-paradigm < 1357490649 805504 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lololol < 1357490650 369809 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1357490661 797525 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is literally irrelevant whether a language "claims to support a paradigm" < 1357490664 661904 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ < 1357490669 596943 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what matters is whether you can do it or not and whether it brings benefits < 1357490674 937040 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : sounds like it doesn't have to be 2m loc <-- probably. Especially if it wasn't C++ < 1357490677 649400 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can code any paradigm in any language, really < 1357490677 829879 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes, in C, an object-oriented approach does < 1357490686 745003 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes it's too awkward to use a certain paradigm in a certain langauge < 1357490690 557493 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not true here < 1357490700 886676 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's awkward in some ways but any C family language is pretty awkward at lots of things < 1357490715 821455 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It is not directly supported by the C language, so it's probably not a great idea to ignore that fact and do it anyway < 1357490717 11845 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-17-59-127.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Screw that, I'm gonna try to write a functional program in brainfuck < 1357490726 125021 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : anyway Vorpal, if this is an embedded system, I'm not sure if you will find any lightweight webserver that can be easily embedded <-- hm? That was for a separate thing from work embedded. < 1357490729 984056 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest: what < 1357490734 589286 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats like < 1357490735 599010 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1357490741 218887 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you clearly have no idea whether it's a good idea or not < 1357490744 74925 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you've clearly never done it < 1357490760 419791 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also if you really constrict your thinking to exactly what the language designers advertised the language as being then woow like what the fuck < 1357490760 658080 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because if I want to write OO code, I use an OOP. < 1357490766 186098 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :object oriented programming isn't some magic feature you have to support in the language < 1357490771 645064 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :its a set of techniques < 1357490781 128099 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :C predates the naming of these techniques as "OOP" so no shit it doesn't "claim to support them" < 1357490783 933372 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they work just fine < 1357490784 409164 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but you generally want those techniques to be supported < 1357490793 365617 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you really want an introduction see like http://www.yosefk.com/blog/oo-c-is-passable.html or whatever god I don't care < 1357490796 295756 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"an OOP"???? < 1357490801 130503 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok seriously < 1357490808 369493 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you have no idea what you're talking about < 1357490810 756730 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of the main causes to the problems of C++ is that while it had some decent ideas, it decided to add them on top of C. Not such a good idea IMO < 1357490811 708110 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just stop arguing < 1357490814 372105 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: why do you hate OOPs < 1357490817 277990 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :its embarrassing < 1357490821 429676 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :lots of people want one! < 1357490829 849234 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: seriously, an OOP was referring to an OO programming language < 1357490892 495478 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-17-59-127.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, do you hate other O*Ps? < 1357490898 561443 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah, making typos is definitely something that can never and should never hppen < 1357490905 895847 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :*happen < 1357490971 568756 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1357491010 182734 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Also, it's not like that blog you linked me to provides the universal truth, everyone can write whatever shit they want on the internet < 1357491018 503698 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1357491022 613304 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're demonstrating that very well right now < 1357491065 210090 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heaven forbid i link you to the blog of someone fairly well-known who actually works on large C and embedded systems to help you educate yourself though < 1357491082 462541 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, who knows, maybe I am; but there is no way you can say that you are not < 1357491092 816822 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't been looking at this discusison, has it gone downhill? < 1357491094 998785 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*discussion < 1357491104 150543 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :he also wrote a criticism of C++ that you have maybe heard of http://yosefk.com/c++fqa/, not exactly the most objective thing ever but certainly it has several good points < 1357491109 863141 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it started downhill and dug underground < 1357491116 881205 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++ works for me, I use C++. < 1357491123 745794 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :C works for you, you use C. < 1357491126 576111 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really care. < 1357491128 240024 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i actually don't like C btw < 1357491135 941010 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just you keep saying bullshit and passing it off as obvious truth < 1357491141 853585 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :when it is blatantly false < 1357491144 720054 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you should really stop doing that please < 1357491150 337639 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like C for when you're trying to do C's job < 1357491156 342876 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is quite rare that you have to do C's job, though < 1357491173 648134 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not convinced that C++ is optimal for anything < 1357491187 398477 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: sure it has some good critics, but it also has things that are simply not true < 1357491192 258743 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, C++ has serious flaws < 1357491209 291684 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :any tool has flaws, but that doesn't mean it's entirely bad < 1357491257 918012 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-17-59-127.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This thing: better than some other things, and hence good < 1357491297 685187 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you actually read it? you didn't seem to have any idea who wrote what I linked and it has only been like two minutes since I linked the C++ FQA < 1357491306 946222 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I disagree with on numerous accounts but you can hardly claim he does not know his way around C++ and C thoroughly < 1357491307 126442 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I pretty much agree with that. C++ does add some neat stuff, like virtual methods. Yeah, very neat. And namespaces. Quite useful for a large project. Maybe a few other things that I didn't think of. < 1357491327 858445 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, I think my opinion is: C++ is only optimal for compatibility with other C++; and C is still optimal for C-like things, has been for years, and it's a huge shame that it has no serious competitors < 1357491330 48222 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is rooting for Rust
< 1357491353 243612 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, what language is Rust? < 1357491361 281174 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the New Cool Thing < 1357491370 726334 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++ is never optimal for anything < 1357491381 708054 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's good enough for everything < 1357491386 813904 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's Mozilla trying to make a better language for systems programming < 1357491395 251666 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, interesting < 1357491399 871656 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's mostly comparable to C in terms of features, but a lot safer < 1357491409 532372 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1357491414 898766 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :this sounds wonderful < 1357491421 829509 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, unless you explicitly use unsafe pointers, there's no way to write a memory leak or use-after-free < 1357491428 347237 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1357491432 632820 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope rust manages to get out of the experimental-undocumented-language-without-libraries phase < 1357491439 540586 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, at least, they have more documentation than most languages like that right now < 1357491444 182252 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it gives you scoped, unique, and garbage-collected pointers, which will be useful in most cases) < 1357491446 102638 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so do I < 1357491446 857501 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how easy is it to interface with existing C code and such though? < 1357491456 71137 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's a design goal to have an easy FFI for C < 1357491463 43280 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the unsafe pointers exist specifically for that, I think < 1357491479 179764 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, okay... so what about when you are writing your GC in Rust? < 1357491495 280518 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't, the standard library has the GC < 1357491505 573513 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, assume I'm using Rust to write a kernel for the moment < 1357491505 811994 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but doesn't use it unless you use GCed pointers < 1357491522 442961 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're still a little unclear on what sort of GC it is, the language is still in quite early stages < 1357491545 860266 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you're not going to be able to get away without writing a runtime system for any even vaguely modern systems language, really < 1357491547 442103 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would need some inline asm probably, and support for doing manual memory management (don't want to GC that DMA area now do I?) and so on. < 1357491549 109414 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :systems language =/= kernel language < 1357491554 514105 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :systems language = *systems language* < 1357491557 458242 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1357491569 851885 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so what good alternatives are there to C (with some asm) for kernels? < 1357491570 89633 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not to say a systems language is necessarily a bad fit for writing a kernel < 1357491574 412090 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but hey you need to write asm to boot a C kernel too < 1357491584 733631 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed, I said C with some asm < 1357491598 296818 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I don't think there are any < 1357491603 792964 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm not saying Rust would be a bad cohice < 1357491611 84734 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just it'd require more asm/C/whatever boilerplate < 1357491616 940194 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway I could think of a way to skip asm for booting. Would require the hardware to setup a nice initial state though < 1357491626 463376 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :people write more systems-language stuff than kernels though < 1357491641 96846 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :far more high-performance network servers etc. in the world than kernels < 1357491641 277166 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1357491672 371362 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: oh i forgot < 1357491675 563588 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott, so what good alternatives are there to C (with some asm) for kernels? < 1357491678 463109 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ < 1357491716 400743 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :have any of you looked at the RPI boot sequence btw? It is weird: The GPU on the SoC loads code from a ROM that reads a file from the first partition of the sdcard, which sets up the RAM (previously only L2 cache was available), and loads the kernel. Then it starts the ARM core. < 1357491766 996164 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well it is a bit more complex, iirc there are two boot loaders, where the second one can read ELF and such, but won't fit into L2) < 1357491778 586570 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty crazy design anyway < 1357491781 940934 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: btw I actually did start to half-design a language suitable for kernel programming in my head once < 1357491785 85114 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was pretty good < 1357491791 305647 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1357491794 491704 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately I'm not smart enough to figure out the type system or the memory management < 1357491804 636239 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1357491805 588159 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you should totally use that if it ever starts existing < 1357491814 105119 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what is the issue with memory management there? < 1357491824 559423 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_iSzgi2VhDw < 1357491829 597062 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it was going to have a linear type system (like ais523's hardware language!!!) < 1357491832 709369 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(okay his is affine w/e w/e w/e) < 1357491855 134703 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :you basically need to have a couple of types of memory management, don't you? Manual, and GC, possibly you want some refcounted as well for some stuff < 1357491856 332245 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and use that to give predictable resource management that wouldn't require a GC < 1357491867 226288 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :you do need some manual stuff, for low level < 1357491876 374224 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was also going to have explicit representation of closures as existential types < 1357491878 671830 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: haha, I was going to correct you with "actually affine" :) < 1357491878 910288 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, interesting < 1357491888 615191 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which lets you separate the code-function-pointer part of a closure from the data it bundles with it < 1357491895 6104 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what is an affine type system? < 1357491903 601613 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort of like you can do in C by defining a closure type with a function taking the closure data and the data to go with it < 1357491909 737256 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but safer/more automatic < 1357491918 222646 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: a type system where you can only use the argument to a function at most once in the function's body < 1357491923 983963 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm okay < 1357491930 144495 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want to use it more than that, you have to call a duplicating function explicitly to copy the argument < 1357491939 564093 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway it was closer to ML or Haskell or ATS (an interesting systems programming language) or whatever than C < 1357491941 793151 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, err, why? < 1357491947 816455 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the idea was to have it be comparable to C or C++ in terms of "runtime overhead" < 1357491948 771924 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess Underload's technically affine, you need to use : to copy data < 1357491963 867543 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :with something sort of like C++'s "opt-in" abstraction penalties < 1357491971 603950 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it helps loads to have copying explicit when you're reasoning about things that might be awkward to copy < 1357491978 219852 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, say, physical hardware circuits < 1357491978 400533 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so if I want to do square(int i), it would need return dup(i)*dup(i)? < 1357491986 378414 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait < 1357491988 533034 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i was very adamant about keeping lambda syntax, higher-order functions, first-class modeling of effects etc. < 1357491992 108196 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ADTs, < 1357492001 538716 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be defined as let square = \i.dup (*) < 1357492004 607177 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1357492007 473326 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :square = dup (*) < 1357492016 374585 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :compile-time bounds checking... < 1357492020 957074 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that looks forthish < 1357492021 494284 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or square = \i.dup (\i1.\i2.i1*i2) i < 1357492038 49975 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t join (*) < 1357492039 478269 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Num a => a -> a < 1357492043 835445 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually in Verity the dups are inferred, not explicit < 1357492045 38609 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: dup is join for the reader monad :) < 1357492048 373522 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway wouldn't dup already consume the argument? So now you had i', but since i was already used by dup? < 1357492057 201833 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: dup gives you two copies of the argument < 1357492058 399766 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and consumes it < 1357492061 261959 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can use those two copies once < 1357492061 732984 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yeah, dup consumes the argument, but it gives you two copies back < 1357492062 208867 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay < 1357492066 135225 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes sense < 1357492076 285671 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway yeah you don't actually have to write code this way, the compiler can figure it out for you < 1357492077 977059 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's also by far the hardest part of the standard library to implement < 1357492090 759539 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'm a leader in the field of automatically inferring where to put the dups < 1357492096 775948 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :my language would have an advantage over ais523 in terms of how lenient the thing it's targetting would be :) < 1357492115 677139 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1357492127 552388 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm what were you targeting then? < 1357492132 876146 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yeah, for my applications, it has to be strict for a reason :) < 1357492133 351075 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :verilog? < 1357492136 524603 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :vhdl I think < 1357492138 174798 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1357492144 74073 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: hardware; the intermediate hdl hardly matters < 1357492149 276010 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're actually using a mix of VHDL and Verilog < 1357492163 199241 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has internalised the meanings of "affine" and "relevant" thanks to edwardk
< 1357492176 197995 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I don't know verilog, but vhdl at least I'm pretty sure doesn't require you to duplicate signals all that much? < 1357492194 119839 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, affine as in affine transformations? Or affine in the sense that we are using it now? < 1357492197 231778 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you're missing the point < 1357492205 388731 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't give two sets of inputs to a circuit simultaneously < 1357492209 308022 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and expect it to be able to parse them < 1357492223 280296 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, true < 1357492236 106566 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :previous research attacked the "two" < 1357492246 701808 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're currently working on the "simultaneously", hope to get that paper out in the next couple of weeks < 1357492252 175933 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 JOIN :#esoteric < 1357492257 292434 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: affine as in the same sense that is used in linear logic < 1357492268 74629 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm okay < 1357492271 998845 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the meaning is closely related in "affine transformation", I think < 1357492296 698971 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :linear: one; affine: zero or one; relevant: one or more < 1357492303 58117 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :for languages: "uses of your argument" < 1357492317 949728 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, couldn't you solve the issue of two sets of input by inlining the function into the parent function, thus creating separate copies of the circuitry? Or am I completely missing your point here? < 1357492320 641675 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this has come up in lens < 1357492332 724370 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there, it's "parts of a traversal" < 1357492350 500176 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a linear traversal has one part always, so it's a lens < 1357492356 411009 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, like: both x and y calls foo, if x and y can run at the same time, you need separate copies of foo < 1357492359 976418 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :an affine traversal has zero or one parts, so it's a lens that can fail, a partial lens < 1357492360 210209 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: sure, but inlining everything tends to lead to exponential blowup < 1357492363 884495 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have stated the problem quite neatly < 1357492368 125759 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a relevant traversal has one or more parts, so you know it's non-empty < 1357492372 539423 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :stating the solution is not so trivial < 1357492379 321548 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm true < 1357492394 643966 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, but if those two foo are actually used at the same time, don't you always end up needing separate copies? < 1357492397 558162 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1357492405 885252 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they aren't always actually used at the same time < 1357492425 297809 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you are trying to tackle the problem of detecting if they are used at the same time or not? < 1357492459 876526 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what do you mean with lens here? Not the optical kind I presume? < 1357492496 934006 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-17-59-127.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Haskell kind, presumably < 1357492506 45707 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://lens.github.com/, http://hackage.haskell.org/package/lens < 1357492583 187405 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tries to find somewhere on those links that describes what a lens actually *is*.
< 1357492608 370737 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no, just of duplicating the bits that need to be duplicated < 1357492623 948588 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's a store comonad coalgebra! < 1357492631 469869 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quick, \x.(x||x);((x;x)||(x;x)), how many copies of x do you need and which go where? < 1357492634 507778 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you can watch edwardk's two-hour video < 1357492634 746212 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-17-59-127.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, first class accessors < 1357492645 283159 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ouch < 1357492674 415147 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: doesn't look so trivial any more when you give examples like that < 1357492686 276523 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, hm, thanks. That makes some vague sense. I really only used the basics of haskell. I have very little knowledge of all the libraries that exist. < 1357492704 898431 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-17-59-127.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, then they made them ridiculous < 1357492714 956463 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1357492718 155850 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: basically haskell's record system sucks < 1357492728 432931 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can imagine defining the idea of a "first-class field" < 1357492738 439567 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds neat < 1357492739 392352 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Field whole part = (whole -> part, whole -> part -> whole) < 1357492741 296116 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: "No, because C++ classes don't support aggregate initialization. "(from your link); actually that's not true. Initialization lists do just this < 1357492742 727210 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-17-59-127.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> preview _left (Left 10) < 1357492744 870147 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Just 10 < 1357492747 487034 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :*initializer < 1357492751 77144 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but the syntax for it looks annoying indeed < 1357492751 292029 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-17-59-127.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> preview _left (Right 10) < 1357492752 747758 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Nothing < 1357492752 986299 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :firstTupleElement = (\(a,b) -> a, \(a,b) a' -> (a',b)) < 1357492760 464659 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lens is basically this < 1357492763 129661 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but generalised a lot < 1357492765 309331 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1357492768 96972 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and with a better representation and lots of nice operators and stuff < 1357492769 595171 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes sense < 1357492777 274589 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it turns out lenslikes have wide applications beyond just field accessors < 1357492862 278229 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-17-59-127.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> [Left 1, Right 'a', Left 6] & traverse . _left *~ 2 < 1357492864 428298 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [Left 2,Right 'a',Left 12] < 1357492898 323311 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-17-59-127.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> [Left 1, Right 'a', Left 6] ^.. left < 1357492899 988168 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `[Data.Either.Either < 1357492900 167560 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ... < 1357492907 727170 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-17-59-127.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> [Left 1, Right 'a', Left 6] ^.. _left < 1357492909 307817 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `[Data.Either.Either < 1357492909 487747 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ... < 1357492910 299001 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> [Left 1, Right 'a', Left 6] ^.. traverse . _left < 1357492912 502909 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [1,6] < 1357492915 831208 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-17-59-127.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blarg < 1357492924 49631 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-17-59-127.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott is better at lens than I am < 1357492935 725755 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-17-59-127.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :To be fair, elliott is better at most things than I am < 1357492942 770210 :Deewiant!~deewiant@deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :?ty traverse . _left < 1357492943 962484 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Functor (k (a -> f b)), Applicative f, Traversable t, Prismatic k) => k (a -> f b) (t (Either a c) -> f (t (Either b c))) < 1357492950 651334 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-17-59-127.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except maybe genealogy and socialising and cosplay? < 1357492953 802544 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: it has a nicer type in 3.8 :p < 1357492966 769515 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :really the issue for a "causal" haskell user, is that there is SO MUCH STUFF. < 1357492976 624906 :Deewiant!~deewiant@deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Before Prismatic? < 1357492984 70902 :Deewiant!~deewiant@deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or what < 1357492985 27560 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: 3.8, *after* Prismatic < 1357492987 198900 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, after new Prismtaic < 1357492991 397258 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Prismatic < 1357492993 319496 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :we vastly simplified it < 1357492998 779946 :Deewiant!~deewiant@deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, okay < 1357492999 17653 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :traverse._left < 1357492999 564473 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : :: (Control.Applicative.Applicative f, Traversable t) => < 1357492999 744495 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : (a -> f b) -> t (Either a c) -> f (t (Either b c)) < 1357493005 514557 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :now it just degrades to a regular old traversal < 1357493016 404094 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-17-59-127.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dammit, I was halfway through typing that out < 1357493023 686650 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :traverse._left :: Traversable t => Traversal (t (Either a c)) (t (Either b c)) a b < 1357493043 180924 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(_left itself looks like (Applicative f, Prismatic p) => p a (f b) -> p (Either a c) (f (Either b c))) < 1357493058 202301 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :we moved the overloading inwards < 1357493176 152463 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm not going to continue to read this "C++FQA", because the critics in their apply to both C and C++, and because many of things in there are exaggerated, or not entirely true. It's really just annoying to read and doesn't provide anything I have not heard before. I really don't see why someone would waste his time doing that. < 1357493186 75707 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :*in there < 1357493193 194924 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i literally don't care one bit whether you read it or not < 1357493205 43957 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't send the link then < 1357493311 226782 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay seriously... shut up < 1357493316 189465 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is completely ridiculous < 1357493324 377063 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1357493370 42696 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no need to be an arrogant ass that doesn't care about anyone or something like that < 1357493431 139447 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"NEXT THURSDAY: Trent infiltrates the Swedish virtual pedicab-racing scene to take down a crew of restaurant terrorists" < 1357493623 432650 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: "job description: restaurant terrorist" < 1357493669 174771 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :job description: virtual pedicab-racer < 1357495418 760583 :atrapado!~rod@219.82.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1357495547 376788 :c00kiemon5ter!~c00kiemon@foss-aueb/coder/c00kiemon5ter PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, this was nice :D http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RBSkq-_St8 < 1357496076 476516 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1357496753 748559 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, what is the context of that? Is there any? < 1357498486 816327 :TeruFSX!~TeruFSX@65-128-142-102.mpls.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1357498530 584796 :TeruFSX!~TeruFSX@65-128-142-102.mpls.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1357498830 390110 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1357498906 656394 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's from NTSF:SD:SUV:: < 1357499250 669159 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1357499413 870538 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f5f3.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCK:THESE:SHORTCUTS:: < 1357499433 705206 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats the joke hagb4rd < 1357499441 839019 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f5f3.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :aw < 1357499447 621511 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f5f3.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :muahrhr < 1357499525 448678 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1357499697 753097 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT : < 1357500130 731009 :KingOfKarlsruhe!~chatzilla@p4FDCF241.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 17.0.1/20121128204232] < 1357500268 858903 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1357500531 183592 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f5f3.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`clear < 1357500542 830406 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd, that makes very little sense < 1357500554 331797 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f5f3.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :now.. that was a joke < 1357500617 396726 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell ais523 hard copy grammar book acquired. proceeding to learn English again < 1357500617 634536 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1357500642 473348 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f5f3.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's just start over again < 1357500645 179276 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f5f3.pool.mediaWays.net PART :#esoteric < 1357500650 565411 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f5f3.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1357500842 706279 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-17-59-127.as13285.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1357500891 345777 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-24-217.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1357500891 844599 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-24-217.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1357500892 25048 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1357500914 447559 :impomatic!~digital_w@46.208.50.63 QUIT :Quit: http://ukcaves.com < 1357500919 124251 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f5f3.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@squeak gregor have you managed to fix the service interface already? < 1357500919 394294 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknown command, try @list < 1357500956 561328 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f5f3.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and where is hackego? < 1357501164 98846 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1357501489 134648 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1357501544 1133 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1357501613 344817 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1357501620 354270 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu < 1357501757 682970 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : "The biggest problem in communication is assuming it has taken place" :-D < 1357501788 387528 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the second biggest is people not being around when you want to comment on them. < 1357501799 29447 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hth. < 1357501803 547016 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f5f3.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :we shall quote this < 1357501831 676848 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i shall assume GreyKnight will read this. < 1357501836 478159 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f5f3.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i'm afraid of this empty space thing i did not understand < 1357501894 416285 :Nisstyre!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre JOIN :#esoteric < 1357501909 463587 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :space, so vast and incomprehensible. < 1357501925 615378 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f5f3.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :absolutely :> < 1357502018 308408 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :two spaces between quoted lines. only one space on each side of [...] ellipses. no space between nicks and the surrounding <>'s. < 1357502122 421996 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :this does not apply recursively within the quoted lines themselves, they should be literal as far as possible. < 1357502147 416763 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you may use [...] to elide things there too.) < 1357502175 537162 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1357502180 436166 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :288) I think she either likes me, is neutral towards me, or dislikes me < 1357502201 71550 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < < 1357502203 71250 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :1) EgoBot just opened a chat session with me to say "bork bork bork" \ 2) Hmmm... My fingers and tongue seem to be as quick as ever, but my lips have definitely weakened... More practice is in order. \ 3) that's where I got it rocket launch facility gift shop \ 4) GKennethR: he sh < 1357502222 684943 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f5f3.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :alright < 1357502233 252051 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :those are all wrong of course < 1357502243 857542 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :since they are older than the quoting standard < 1357502252 739490 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, 2 and 3. < 1357502267 774917 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run quote " <" < 1357502269 443071 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :1) EgoBot just opened a chat session with me to say "bork bork bork" \ 2) Hmmm... My fingers and tongue seem to be as quick as ever, but my lips have definitely weakened... More practice is in order. \ 3) that's where I got it rocket launch facility gift shop \ 4) GKennethR: he sh < 1357502276 305542 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run quote " [<]" < 1357502278 66829 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :1) EgoBot just opened a chat session with me to say "bork bork bork" \ 2) Hmmm... My fingers and tongue seem to be as quick as ever, but my lips have definitely weakened... More practice is in order. \ 3) that's where I got it rocket launch facility gift shop \ 4) GKennethR: he sh < 1357502297 324448 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :why the _heck_ does that catch 1, i'm trying to exclude it < 1357502304 101880 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run quote "[ ][<]" < 1357502305 824416 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :1) EgoBot just opened a chat session with me to say "bork bork bork" \ 2) Hmmm... My fingers and tongue seem to be as quick as ever, but my lips have definitely weakened... More practice is in order. \ 3) that's where I got it rocket launch facility gift shop \ 4) GKennethR: he sh < 1357502311 849076 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1357502322 892720 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the grepping happens after the line numbers are added, of course < 1357502346 371117 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run quote "[^)] <" < 1357502347 839674 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2) Hmmm... My fingers and tongue seem to be as quick as ever, but my lips have definitely weakened... More practice is in order. \ 3) that's where I got it rocket launch facility gift shop \ 5) His body should be given to science. He's alive :P Even so. \ 6) What is portable way of load/save floating points in files, using a C code? < kmc> #ifndef __STDC_IEC_559__ #error Here's a nickel, kid. Buy a real computer. #endif \ 874) Conext coyou'll cotell come cothat coyou cocan't coprefix coeverything cowith co"co". pikhq: coof urse conot! \ 878) The winter solstic < 1357502369 17167 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's all so worng. < 1357502372 989548 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAAAAAAAAAA < 1357502375 850394 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look at that 871. < 1357502387 747449 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the horror, the horror! < 1357502394 907758 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was trying to look at the last ones since they are generally better D: < 1357502428 580226 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 900 < 1357502430 557450 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :900) This might be the lack of sleep talking, but coproduct injections are pretty funny < 1357502559 170371 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run sed -i '871s/\( *\)< /\1\1 What is portable way of load/save floating points in files, using a C code? #ifndef __STDC_IEC_559__ #error Here's a nickel, kid. Buy a real computer. #endif < 1357502724 853974 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :sadly the no-recursion exemption means you cannot make a substitution that fixes the whole database automatically < 1357502751 890050 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1357502884 454637 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1357503552 169409 :impomatic!~digital_w@46.208.50.63 JOIN :#esoteric < 1357503626 111853 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1357503830 238928 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`url quotes < 1357503831 904082 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/quotes < 1357503893 826640 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 1 < 1357503895 132725 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :1) EgoBot just opened a chat session with me to say "bork bork bork" < 1357503898 700114 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh christ i've been 18 for less than a day and already i'm turning into a Wine Person < 1357503919 466542 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, the quotes are still renumbered every time one is deleted, right? < 1357503937 444433 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1357503947 488276 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo delete 1?? < 1357503958 31188 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 isn't very good. < 1357504004 612414 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 11 < 1357504006 16930 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :11) "You're at that stage in your life where you're going to want to do some things in private." --my mom < 1357504014 343680 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :}:| < 1357504035 559324 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meeh. < 1357504037 735833 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :`delquote 11 < 1357504041 842263 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​*poof* "You're at that stage in your life where you're going to want to do some things in private." --my mom < 1357504049 282243 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :um... < 1357504070 394912 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`help < 1357504071 109193 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ < 1357504078 627303 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i declare edit war! < 1357504083 663984 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett.................... < 1357504096 204029 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: what??? < 1357504102 281808 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo $PWD < 1357504103 472562 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/hackenv < 1357504124 647847 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would like to point out that i am currently editing the entire quote database by hand, and if you start an edit war now i'm going to completely ignore it < 1357504150 292670 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why are you doing tha < 1357504151 525032 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :t < 1357504160 574968 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quoerjan < 1357504162 211115 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :6) what, you mean that wasn't your real name? Gosh, I guess it is. I never realized that. \ 15) oerjan: are you a man, if there weren't evil in this kingdom to you! you shall find bekkler! executing program. please let me go... put me out! he's really a tricycle! pass him! \ 18) In an alternate universe, ehird < 1357504169 865792 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, that worked. < 1357504197 551887 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/quoerjan < 1357504199 243715 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :quote oerjan < 1357504204 923757 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f5f3.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: because it's messed up < 1357504212 724120 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`allquotes < 1357504213 915953 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :1) EgoBot just opened a chat session with me to say "bork bork bork" \ 2) Hmmm... My fingers and tongue seem to be as quick as ever, but my lips have definitely weakened... More practice is in order. \ 3) that's where I got it rocket launch facility gift shop \ 4) GKennethR: he sh < 1357504226 325866 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo 'allquotes | grep oerjan | shuf' > bin/quoerjan < 1357504228 48449 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f5f3.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and because he's a good boy < 1357504229 610796 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1357504230 87200 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quoerjan < 1357504231 751852 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :230) oerjan: Tell us what (a(b{c}d)*2e)%2 expands to <-- ababcdbcdedbabcdbcdede, i think oerjan: What - the - fuck \ 371) i never meta turing. he died before i was born. \ 15) oerjan: are you a man, if there weren't evil in this kingdom to you! you shall find bekkler! executing program. please let me g < 1357504260 925654 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quoerjan < 1357504262 440689 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :376) as i was filled with zzo38 mystery at the moment i saw quintopia: I am at Canada. \ 657) if only alonzo church would have anticipated the computer terminal... itidus20: What do you think it would be if he did so? i just plucked his name at random [...] if only the marquis de sade would < 1357504284 821476 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quoerjan < 1357504286 494764 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :684) oerjan: Hey, what's your country code for telephonistic dialling from the outside world? fizzie: +47 oerjan: Ooh, you're, like, right next to Sweden there. I... guess you are geographically, too. \ 145) it's not obvious from quantum mechanics that you can destroy a universe arbitrarily. \ 375) < < 1357504288 432334 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good quotes. < 1357504334 68586 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f5f3.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :please don't just delete quotes that don't miss context < 1357504363 94805 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run hg diff -c 895 | patch -R < 1357504368 564598 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :patching file quotes < 1357504556 79042 :carado!~user4539@2a01:e35:8b61:e430:6ef0:49ff:fe73:1fd0 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1357504573 504969 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell ais523 Can you point me to use cases of ?{} and %%s in actual code? < 1357504573 685274 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1357504573 983766 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :ababc dbc de, dbabc dbc de, de < 1357504689 11301 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :"According to Nick Herbert, a PhD from Stanford University, if quantum physics is a realistic explanation for the universe, then telepathy is possible." Is this like saying how Einsteinian relativity can permit time travel because some of its solutions permit it? < 1357504689 230259 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. < 1357504691 841828 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :?messages < 1357504692 79502 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan said 23h 42m 38s ago: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principal_homogeneous_space seems to include your concept if you use the integers as the group < 1357504692 259363 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol said 23h 41m 48s ago: crazy talk < 1357505037 581472 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`help < 1357505038 58846 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ < 1357505061 998288 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f5f3.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: i guess the known laws of quantum physics just don't exclude the possibility of 'telepathy'.. but they do not proove them in any way < 1357505078 486807 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f5f3.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ti < 1357505082 886338 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f5f3.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :aarg < 1357505118 874447 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f5f3.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :however it's difficult enough to communicate using words < 1357505151 203888 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`fetch http://oerjan.nvg.org/quotes < 1357505158 765689 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2013-01-06 20:45:57 URL:http://oerjan.nvg.org/quotes [108182/108182] -> "quotes.1" [1] < 1357505174 38557 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run mv quotes.1 quotes # Fix general formatting < 1357505177 13788 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1357505217 11579 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f5f3.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 1 < 1357505218 677212 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :1) I used computational linguistics to kill her. < 1357505322 486378 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f5f3.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`url quotes < 1357505324 150686 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/quotes < 1357505466 966036 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd: Well, yes, I know, they do not prove them in any way. < 1357505532 88166 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But do you know how some people have figured out how relativity to permit time travel possibly? < 1357505544 789961 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I read that in another book. < 1357505631 426832 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f5f3.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well there was a young lady named bright. whose was much faster than light. she departed one day, in a relative way. and returned on the previous night ;) < 1357505641 525468 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f5f3.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually: no < 1357505649 844436 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :time travel poetry! < 1357505673 860995 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f5f3.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*whose speed < 1357505679 764196 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh you were actually talking about time travel < 1357505701 122132 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd: how can a speed be faster than light < 1357505706 661642 :carado!~user4539@2a01:e35:8b61:e430:6ef0:49ff:fe73:1fd0 JOIN :#esoteric < 1357505732 927371 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like saying icecream is hungrier than me! < 1357505738 631994 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f5f3.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well we can slow down light to the speed of a bike.. but i guess that wouldn't help < 1357505762 340516 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`fetch http://oerjan.nvg.org/quotes < 1357505766 150960 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2013-01-06 20:56:04 URL:http://oerjan.nvg.org/quotes [108153/108153] -> "quotes.1" [1] < 1357505788 271776 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run mv quotes.1 quotes # Some more formatting errors < 1357505791 487953 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1357505805 839507 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm well if I remember well the first time we encounter the team rocket in pokemon version yellow they said "Time rocket... fleeing as fast as light!" or something and the last time you beat them they say "Team rocket... fleeing as fast as a big bike!" or something < 1357505896 843596 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f5f3.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well time travel is not very much my discipline.. you should talk to zzo38 who's reading a book about it now < 1357505993 552854 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh what < 1357506075 376823 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't say I am reading a book about it now. I said I read books in the past, some of which include some stuff about such things. < 1357506115 407464 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f5f3.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes.. exactly. sorry zzo38. < 1357506185 694341 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :a _true_ expert would have read them in the future. < 1357506197 656673 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f5f3.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1357506203 487494 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run gccrun 'printf("hello world\n");' < 1357506204 964874 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash: gccrun: command not found < 1357506207 594686 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :sucks < 1357506250 294611 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c printf("hello world\n"); < 1357506255 719673 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello world < 1357506257 739924 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: hth < 1357506360 922504 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@222.122.156.78 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1357506491 13954 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@188.134.41.173 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1357506558 401800 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :But what about the unification! < 1357506564 425574 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`interp c printf("hello world\n"); < 1357506574 523937 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :protip: that won't work < 1357506582 292509 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does not compile. \ ./interps/gcccomp/gcccomp: fork: retry: Resource temporarily unavailable \ ./interps/gcccomp/gcccomp: fork: retry: Resource temporarily unavailable \ ./interps/gcccomp/gcccomp: fork: retry: Resource temporarily unavailable \ ./interps/gcccomp/gcccomp: fork: retry: Resource temporarily unavailable \ ./interps/gcccomp/gcccomp: for < 1357506588 725633 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's just silly. < 1357506676 891453 :md_5!~md_5@mcdevs/trusted/md-5 JOIN :#esoteric < 1357506690 983737 :md_5!~md_5@mcdevs/trusted/md-5 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh shiny < 1357506711 911737 :md_5!~md_5@mcdevs/trusted/md-5 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone know of any Glass interpreters other than the reference C one? < 1357506747 449925 :SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@mcdevs/trusted/sircmpwn PRIVMSG #esoteric :md_5: if you're just looking for esoteric oop languages, try java < 1357506758 221027 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have an unpublished half-finished one. (Or maybe it was a compiler.) ((That's not very helpful.)) < 1357506798 923836 :md_5!~md_5@mcdevs/trusted/md-5 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks SirCmpwn , although I was kindof going for esolang-ception < 1357506806 542645 :md_5!~md_5@mcdevs/trusted/md-5 PRIVMSG #esoteric :where the glass interpreter was java :P < 1357506815 258374 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1357506836 264656 :SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@mcdevs/trusted/sircmpwn PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are brainfuck interpreters in brainfuck, right? < 1357506842 95693 :SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@mcdevs/trusted/sircmpwn PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I should include one in my IRC bot < 1357506871 870279 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@222.122.156.78 JOIN :#esoteric < 1357506941 770683 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1357506947 56636 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1357506948 246715 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are, yes; there's six listed in http://esolangs.org/wiki/brainfuck#Self-interpreters < 1357506954 120952 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1357506980 341730 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :make it an optimizing compiler. gotta have speed < 1357506989 696032 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's probably awib, then? < 1357507008 388963 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(awib is also written in brainfuck.) < 1357507033 539946 :md_5!~md_5@mcdevs/trusted/md-5 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.hevanet.com/cristofd/dbfi.b < 1357507036 396265 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admittedly it only targets like x83-32-Linux, C, Ruby, Go and Tcl, so it's pretty limited. < 1357507038 537346 :md_5!~md_5@mcdevs/trusted/md-5 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats probably the smallest one < 1357507089 522659 :SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@mcdevs/trusted/sircmpwn PRIVMSG #esoteric :awib cheats < 1357507095 288989 :SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@mcdevs/trusted/sircmpwn PRIVMSG #esoteric :they don't use straight-up brainfuck < 1357507188 111388 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does that mean? < 1357507206 831886 :SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@mcdevs/trusted/sircmpwn PRIVMSG #esoteric :it means you can put their source into a standard brainfuck interpreter and it won't work < 1357507207 307602 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's way down crooked < 1357507222 663411 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it means they have brainforeplay < 1357507250 504406 :SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@mcdevs/trusted/sircmpwn PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be an outstanding name for a brainfuck preprocessor < 1357507252 406761 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SirCmpwn: Pretty sure it does? < 1357507258 154108 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you sure you were using a compliant interpreter? < 1357507259 348582 :SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@mcdevs/trusted/sircmpwn PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: go read their code < 1357507265 480570 :SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@mcdevs/trusted/sircmpwn PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I didn't even run it < 1357507279 252725 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was under the impression that it does run just fine under a (suitable) bf interpreter. < 1357507287 18258 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SirCmpwn: I see nothing amiss skimming over http://awib.googlecode.com/svn/builds/awib-0.3.b < 1357507301 331495 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, except the gratuitous ASCII art) < 1357507320 33559 :SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@mcdevs/trusted/sircmpwn PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's after some processing < 1357507331 799663 :SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@mcdevs/trusted/sircmpwn PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://code.google.com/p/awib/source/browse/trunk/awib-skeleton.b < 1357507360 223144 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just looks like #includes to me. < 1357507361 456101 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plus comments. < 1357507376 315257 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION doesn't think that really counts as cheating.
< 1357507386 815824 :SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@mcdevs/trusted/sircmpwn PRIVMSG #esoteric :% where b = (bytecode OK ? 1 : 0) and Mm = maximum loop depth < 1357507395 423744 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure that is a comment. < 1357507395 603775 :SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@mcdevs/trusted/sircmpwn PRIVMSG #esoteric :this looks like considerably more than just a comment of some sort < 1357507400 236384 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :% 20(0) T *0 b (code) 0 M m < 1357507400 416615 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :% where b = (bytecode OK ? 1 : 0) and Mm = maximum loop depth < 1357507405 18452 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's showing what the tape is at that point. < 1357507410 4567 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And what b and Mm represent. < 1357507415 448910 :SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@mcdevs/trusted/sircmpwn PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1357507426 150588 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://code.google.com/p/awib/source/browse/trunk/util/bfpp.py < 1357507450 737039 :SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@mcdevs/trusted/sircmpwn PRIVMSG #esoteric :alright, not entirely cheating, then < 1357507934 763649 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :comments are _so_ cheating < 1357507972 759058 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :What was the bot that used one of the EsoInterpreters to do something? < 1357508008 811135 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thutubot for underload? < 1357508023 244965 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sounds very possible. < 1357508087 400835 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :With uload.b, I guess. < 1357508115 753895 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I also tried it out with fungot, and it could run (x)S but nothing much more complicated than that, due to the resource limits. < 1357508116 229902 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: a hard drive < 1357508151 846649 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :^show < 1357508152 85548 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :echo reverb rev rot13 rev2 fib wc ul cho choo pow2 source help hw srmlebac uenlsbcmra scramble unscramble asc ord prefixes tmp test celebrate wiki chr ha rainbow rainbow2 welcome me tell < 1357508154 735771 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would you like to play Arimaa with flat pieces with roman numbers I to VI on it? < 1357508156 925480 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :^show ul < 1357508157 164655 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :>,[>,]<[<]>[<+4[>-8<-]+>-[-7[-2[<+3[>-4<-]+>[<+4[>-5<-]+>[-11[-3[[-]<2[>[-]>+<2-]>>[<2+>>-]+<[->-<3[[>+<-]<]>>[>]]>[->[>]<[[>+<-]<]<2[[>+<-]<]<[[>+<-]<]>>[>]>[[[>]>+<2[<]>-]<2[[>+<-]<]>>[>]>[>]>[<2[<]<[<]<+>>[>]>[>]>-]<2[<]>]>>[[<+>-]>]<2[<]]]<[->>[>]<[[>>+<2-]<]<2[[>+<-]<]>+>[>]+5[>+8<-]+2>-[<+[<]>+[>]<-]]>]<[->>[[<2+>>-]>]<3[[>+<-]<]]>]<[-<[[<]>.[-]>[[<+>-]>]>>[[<+>-]>]<2[<]<2]>>>[[<+>-]>]<2[<]<]>]<[->>[>]<[[>+<-]<]<2[>>>>[>] < 1357508160 832912 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose it's that. < 1357508234 656304 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@222.122.156.78 QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1357508246 985299 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, it could be played on intersections, with the trap squares marked with stars. < 1357508325 334830 :SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@mcdevs/trusted/sircmpwn PRIVMSG #esoteric :even when the expected behavior is to fail horribly, my bot fails to fail < 1357508364 504189 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f5f3.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :let'm join < 1357508366 708775 :SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@mcdevs/trusted/sircmpwn PRIVMSG #esoteric :trying to direct program flow into the PING handler, which currently doesn't bother cleaning up, which in theory should just break everything when it gets a PING < 1357508379 460380 :SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@mcdevs/trusted/sircmpwn PRIVMSG #esoteric :but nope, it just merrily continues executing like nothing went wrong < 1357508392 541124 :SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@mcdevs/trusted/sircmpwn PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd let him join, but the server won't ping me if it makes a peep < 1357508397 26568 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@222.122.156.78 JOIN :#esoteric < 1357508465 644296 :md_5!~md_5@mcdevs/trusted/md-5 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so anyway I was looking for a language I could use to script Java. It must have variables and functions with parameters. < 1357508485 917981 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :try befunge < 1357508489 578811 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sort of has those things < 1357508516 577881 :Mr_Darcy!~Administr@8ta-151-108-114.telkomadsl.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1357508535 959912 :SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@mcdevs/trusted/sircmpwn PRIVMSG #esoteric :md_5: APL if you hate yourself < 1357508551 62838 :SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@mcdevs/trusted/sircmpwn PRIVMSG #esoteric :md_5: APL pretends not to be esoteric, though < 1357508566 965235 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you want to script Java, though? What are you trying to make? < 1357508577 844331 :md_5!~md_5@mcdevs/trusted/md-5 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a joke < 1357508602 12343 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1357508602 763932 :Mr_Darcy!~Administr@8ta-151-108-114.telkomadsl.co.za PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1357508620 521984 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f5f3.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :poor zzo38.. it's not his day < 1357508640 349169 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, i wonder where one would get an APL compiler nowadays < 1357508650 310903 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@fluttershy.pl QUIT :Excess Flood < 1357508657 779154 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@fluttershy.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1357508683 667948 :SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@mcdevs/trusted/sircmpwn PRIVMSG #esoteric :⎕←{⍵/⍨~{⍵∨≠\⍵}⍵∊'<>'}txt < 1357508686 78057 :SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@mcdevs/trusted/sircmpwn PRIVMSG #esoteric :actual APL code < 1357508690 992419 :SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@mcdevs/trusted/sircmpwn PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they say it isn't a joke < 1357508721 186465 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf <+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++. < 1357508721 662358 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1357508792 787841 :md_5!~md_5@mcdevs/trusted/md-5 PRIVMSG #esoteric :befunge doesnt really have functions < 1357508826 491778 :SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@mcdevs/trusted/sircmpwn PRIVMSG #esoteric :md_5: the fact that you want functions means you're in the wrong channel < 1357508840 171629 :md_5!~md_5@mcdevs/trusted/md-5 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lots of languages have them < 1357508843 580373 :md_5!~md_5@mcdevs/trusted/md-5 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just not with paramaters < 1357508860 373098 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just go back to basics. Straight-up lambda calculus. < 1357508865 551530 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :SirCmpwn: NOT TRUE. we'll let him use unlambda just fine. < 1357508865 731946 :SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@mcdevs/trusted/sircmpwn PRIVMSG #esoteric :md_5: why not use IRP < 1357508876 676232 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or lack of lambda calculus, that works too. < 1357508923 230970 :impomatic!~digital_w@46.208.50.63 PART :#esoteric < 1357508923 944939 :impomatic!~digital_w@46.208.50.63 QUIT :Quit: impomatic < 1357509920 80192 :atrapado!~rod@219.82.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com QUIT :Quit: Abandonando < 1357510562 622610 :SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@mcdevs/trusted/sircmpwn PRIVMSG #esoteric :well fuck < 1357510575 988404 :SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@mcdevs/trusted/sircmpwn PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course the error I've spent 15 minutes looking for comes from a comma in a comment < 1357510592 597343 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :how commadic < 1357510637 513517 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :could have used a preprocessor!! < 1357510650 899028 :SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@mcdevs/trusted/sircmpwn PRIVMSG #esoteric :then I wouldn't be able to claim it runs on vanilla brainfuck < 1357510690 195060 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the brainfuck community would be simply apalled with you. < 1357510731 206039 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1357510731 386909 :SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@mcdevs/trusted/sircmpwn PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a brainfuck community? < 1357510748 274455 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the joke. < 1357510798 372145 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : ^bf <+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++. <-- shouldn't that terminate on the +],[.,]!wrapped around and terminated < 1357511485 421460 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrapped around and terminated < 1357511537 566443 :SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@mcdevs/trusted/sircmpwn PRIVMSG #esoteric :I realized that, with very minor modification, my bot can work on two bytes of memory < 1357511567 504400 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you store "PRIVMSG" in two bytes? < 1357511570 235020 :TeruFSX!~TeruFSX@65-128-142-102.mpls.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1357511584 818205 :SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@mcdevs/trusted/sircmpwn PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't < 1357511600 597738 :SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@mcdevs/trusted/sircmpwn PRIVMSG #esoteric :read a byte, "is it P", continue < 1357511605 698937 :SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@mcdevs/trusted/sircmpwn PRIVMSG #esoteric :read a byte, "is it R", continue < 1357511607 948109 :SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@mcdevs/trusted/sircmpwn PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc < 1357511625 457598 :SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@mcdevs/trusted/sircmpwn PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: works, thanks! http://i.imgur.com/tcmVu.png < 1357511640 797542 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1357511662 987759 :SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@mcdevs/trusted/sircmpwn PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like to know where my <> mismatch is, though < 1357511715 613465 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm matching <'s and >'s may not be a common editor feature :P < 1357511735 675501 :SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@mcdevs/trusted/sircmpwn PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm talking about the memory pointer being in the 65000 range < 1357511741 809209 :SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@mcdevs/trusted/sircmpwn PRIVMSG #esoteric :it underflowed at some point < 1357511839 702933 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well are you using "balanced" [] loops, such that every loop is always supposed to be exited in the same cell as it's entered? if so checking it is essentially a bracket matching problem. < 1357511854 943938 :SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@mcdevs/trusted/sircmpwn PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, more or less < 1357511864 524 :SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@mcdevs/trusted/sircmpwn PRIVMSG #esoteric :my "if" statements work differently < 1357511869 38740 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(there are bf idioms which don't use that, but if you are only using 2 cells you're unlikely to be using them) < 1357511873 352004 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1357511890 274039 :SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@mcdevs/trusted/sircmpwn PRIVMSG #esoteric :my two cells are general working and stdin < 1357511899 642984 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1357511911 435518 :SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@mcdevs/trusted/sircmpwn PRIVMSG #esoteric :read a value -> subtract expected -> set working to 1 < 1357511922 748664 :SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@mcdevs/trusted/sircmpwn PRIVMSG #esoteric :then, if zero, the "not expected" handler is run and sets working to zero < 1357511934 299004 :SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@mcdevs/trusted/sircmpwn PRIVMSG #esoteric :then the "expected" handler is skipped because it uses working as the determining factor < 1357511976 632578 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't you mean "if nonzero" < 1357512002 806389 :SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@mcdevs/trusted/sircmpwn PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1357512049 13750 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok but none of that requires non-balanced loops. < 1357512764 662475 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf ,[>>+<< [->>+<<[<+>->>-<<[->+<]]>[-<+>]<] <] >>>[->]<+<+<+<+<+<+<+<+[ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ .>]!a < 1357512765 189979 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :/00////0 < 1357512775 370261 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1357512799 468113 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf ,[>>+<< [->>+<<[<+>->>-<<[->+<]]>[-<+>]<] <] >>>[->]<+<+<+<+<+<+<+<+[ +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ .>]!a < 1357512799 988201 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :01100001 < 1357512803 172433 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan is the expert in low-cell BF < 1357512825 123705 :SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@mcdevs/trusted/sircmpwn PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the goal here? < 1357512842 647587 :SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@mcdevs/trusted/sircmpwn PRIVMSG #esoteric :to output that number? < 1357512856 914038 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's supposed to print in binary < 1357512861 265 :SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@mcdevs/trusted/sircmpwn PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I see < 1357512890 768839 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf ,[>>+<< [->>+<<[<+>->>-<<[->+<]]>[-<+>]<] <] >>>[->]<+<+<+<+<+<+<+<+[ +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ .>]!! < 1357512891 244286 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :00100001 < 1357512901 333732 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like it works < 1357512904 466136 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf ,[>>+<< [->>+<<[<+>->>-<<[->+<]]>[-<+>]<] <] >>>[->]<+<+<+<+<+<+<+<+[ +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ .>]! < 1357512904 708105 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :00000000 < 1357512905 656129 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1357512953 572833 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's tweaked from my collatz function idea < 1357513049 7602 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1357513122 318962 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi zzo38 < 1357513420 265056 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello. Any question? < 1357513438 92381 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :just saying hi < 1357513697 372969 :SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@mcdevs/trusted/sircmpwn PRIVMSG #esoteric :fixed the mismatch :) < 1357513704 270203 :SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@mcdevs/trusted/sircmpwn PRIVMSG #esoteric :I take it back :| < 1357513710 964175 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1357513732 637181 :SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@mcdevs/trusted/sircmpwn PRIVMSG #esoteric :I fixed *a* mismatch < 1357513778 418717 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1357513980 145962 :SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@mcdevs/trusted/sircmpwn PRIVMSG #esoteric :there, found the other < 1357514886 738988 :SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@mcdevs/trusted/sircmpwn PRIVMSG #esoteric :no longer can use two cells < 1357514894 406084 :SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@mcdevs/trusted/sircmpwn PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote the channel name into a buffer on channel messages < 1357514985 780801 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@cust-101.ktknet.cz JOIN :#esoteric < 1357515917 358152 :carado!~user4539@2a01:e35:8b61:e430:6ef0:49ff:fe73:1fd0 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1357516132 543533 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I'm going to take the intersection of three ordered infinite lists < 1357516144 756294 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'm wondering why according to google nobody else has done it < 1357516275 341593 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least not in haskell < 1357516363 57561 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can just write the intersection of two... < 1357516386 888668 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :then since the intersection of two ordered lists is ordered, you can take the intersection of that list and another list < 1357516432 301788 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I figured that < 1357516450 477023 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ok but what about the intersection of FOUR infinite lists < 1357516465 311567 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't looking for three lists specifically, just lists < 1357516590 277330 :SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@mcdevs/trusted/sircmpwn PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf >[-]<[-]++++++++++[>++++++++<-]>. < 1357516590 790972 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :P < 1357516599 568525 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :I figure you can always just get rid of the smaller element < 1357516601 181802 :SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@mcdevs/trusted/sircmpwn PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf >[-]<[-]++++++++++[>++++++++<-]>++. < 1357516601 420155 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :R < 1357516611 536561 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if the elements are equal, you put that in the intersection list < 1357516642 873069 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course that would only work for lists growing upwards < 1357516653 802310 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can tell whether it grows upwards or downwards easily. < 1357516667 80182 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but I'm too lazy to implement that =P < 1357516672 37235 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't that intrinsic to the order... < 1357516773 304514 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: ...it's as simple as direction (a:b:_) = compare b a