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00:05:17 <oerjan> Arc_Koen: it would have been if i weren't up in the backscroll answering a completely different question
00:06:04 <Arc_Koen> you do know your answer won't appear up in the backscroll, right?
00:06:17 <oerjan> GreyKnight: every comic on that website is avant-garde, of course
00:07:27 <oerjan> some so much that they are dead
00:07:29 <GreyKnight> oerjan: well, it's DMM. He practically oozes avantgardicity from every pore.
00:12:13 <hagb4rd> can u pick me up? whatt comic? which website?
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00:15:50 <hagb4rd> 'no eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn'
00:16:05 <oerjan> hagb4rd: http://www.mezzacotta.net/postcard/
00:18:14 <hagb4rd> i wondered if the cross in the scandinavian flags is somehow related to christianity.. or what else
00:22:03 <Gregor> “Will meet at Shell station at I-69 and south 96th for sale” Yeah, that's not creepy.
00:23:30 <hagb4rd> you haven't thought that you just can go and buy one..did you
00:24:35 <Gregor> hagb4rd: I've already gone through all this once.
00:24:38 <Gregor> Drove for two hours to buy one.
00:24:43 <Gregor> But that was less creepy.
00:24:56 <Gregor> It wasn't "I'll meet you at the gas station and we'll exchange a secret handshake"
00:25:33 <kmc> "the truck stop labeled with three thumbs up signs" "those aren't thumbs"
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00:26:24 <GreyKnight> codephrase: "The forests of Timber have changed." countersign "But the owls are still around."
00:28:01 <hagb4rd> "Excuse me but do you have a cousin named Sven?" -"No but I once had a barber named Dominique"
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00:29:49 <hagb4rd> thumbs up if you like guybrush triftwood
00:32:58 <Gregor> Phantom__Hoover: An accordion.
00:35:50 <oerjan> <hagb4rd> i wondered if the cross in the scandinavian flags is somehow related to christianity.. or what else <-- of course it is.
00:36:13 <FreeFull> the english flag has a cross too
00:36:52 <Gregor> There are perfectly justifiable reasons to want to go elsewhere to sell something, and frankly I'm safer at some random Shell station than some random person's house, but that is SOOOO shady >_>
00:37:55 <oerjan> FreeFull: itym 3 crosses
00:39:17 <GreyKnight> Gregor: maybe *he* doesn't want *you* to know where he lives
00:39:21 <FreeFull> I don't know if the scottish flag would count as having a cross since it's diagonal and the two lines aren't at 90°
00:40:04 <FreeFull> The Polish flag is pretty simple
00:40:10 <GreyKnight> (I guess because it sort of looks like a jumping man if you squint?)
00:40:25 <GreyKnight> The old Libyan one was best. "Just green"
00:40:58 <Gregor> <GreyKnight> Gregor: maybe *he* doesn't want *you* to know where he lives // yes, that's one of the perfectly justifiable reasons.
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00:41:17 <Gregor> Or, y'know. Not a gas station.
00:41:46 <hagb4rd> GreyKnight: i think it's not that old since gadhdhafi founded it afaik
00:41:56 <kmc> yeah the one before was more like the one they have now
00:41:56 <lambdabot> monqy: You have 4 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them.
00:42:00 <hagb4rd> it was black, red, white before.. iirc
00:42:01 <GreyKnight> maybe he needs to get petrol as well ¯\(°_o)/¯
00:42:09 <kmc> maybe the same??
00:42:24 <GreyKnight> hagb4rd: I mean "old" in the sense of "previous" (IIRC they ditched it)
00:42:48 <hagb4rd> yea.. times are changing in the arabic world
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00:43:02 <kmc> aha but there was also a Libyan Arab Republic flag and then a Federation of Arab Republics flag
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00:44:05 <hagb4rd> there so many flags.. more flags than nations
00:45:28 <kmc> http://www.otago.ac.nz/philosophy/Staff/JoshParsons/flags/alpha.html
00:46:40 <GreyKnight> I just want more single-flat-colour flags, is that so wrong? ._.
00:47:35 <oerjan> `? misspellings of croissant
00:47:36 <HackEgo> misspellings of crosant? ¯\(°_o)/¯
00:47:38 <kmc> 'Automatic weapons on a flag are especially bad. Appears to have been designed by a committee all of whom had stupid ideas for pictures of extra things to put on the flag.'
00:48:55 <hagb4rd> guess the green color (and of course the half moon) mostly represents islamic infuence
00:49:15 <oerjan> just put a nuclear bomb on your flag and get it over with
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00:49:36 <shachaf> have you ever considered the nick Bicycle
00:49:41 <kmc> "Serbians will have a chance to change this flag when Montenegro secedes from Yugoslavia. I suggest they take it."
00:49:43 <kmc> well they did
00:50:09 <kmc> put a crown eagle thingy on it
00:50:10 <Bike> Why would it suit me?
00:50:30 <FireFly> I like Nepal's choice of flag
00:50:39 <FireFly> Rectangular flags are so typical
00:50:47 <kmc> and Црне Горе ended up with something totally different
00:51:12 <Bike> libya's flag under gadaffi is my favorite.
00:51:49 <kmc> FreeFull: oerjan: doesn't it bug you that the various crosses on the Union Jack don't line up?!?
00:52:04 <kmc> it means you can have one that's upside down or backwards
00:52:21 <Bike> and the most depressing flag is definitely Mozambique's
00:52:22 <GreyKnight> Hm isn't there another country with a Nepal-shaped flag?
00:52:50 <FreeFull> kmc: A Polish flag can be upside-down too
00:52:50 <GreyKnight> kmc: well if it weren't that way how would you tell which way up you had it?!?
00:53:05 <kmc> FreeFull: true facts
00:53:06 <FreeFull> I don't see how you hang a flag backwards though
00:53:45 <Bike> well one side is generally designated as the side the pole's on
00:53:48 <kmc> FreeFull: wait until someone invents a möbius flag for their country
00:54:14 <kmc> a bit harder to manage
00:54:19 <Arc_Koen> is that why the british flag is symmetrical?
00:54:29 <kmc> it's not symmetrical!
00:55:19 <Arc_Koen> but would you notice if it were hanged backwards?
00:55:27 <kmc> Arc_Koen: i wouldn't
00:55:29 <kmc> but some people would
00:55:40 <kmc> i don't know which way is correct but wikipedia says
00:56:01 <kmc> they should have a referendum to symmetricize the flag
00:56:13 <kmc> saving billions of pounds
00:56:29 <hagb4rd> btw how can quarks with the 1/2 spin appear the same only when turned 720 degrees.. also how many dimensions does it take to prove we're not wrong
00:57:13 <GreyKnight> well if you rotate it 360 degrees then the spin is pointing the wrong way!
00:57:14 <kmc> the US state of Rhode Island had a referendum on changing the name to Rhode Island
00:57:17 <kmc> and it failed
00:57:24 <kmc> the current name is actually the State of Rhode Island and Providence Plantations
00:57:45 <Bike> is that like how massachusetts is "actuall a commonwealth" and north dakota "isn't a state"
00:58:04 <oerjan> kmc: if my vague impression is correctly recalled, the crosses are strangely arranged in order that none of them be more prominent than the others according to heraldic rules
00:58:15 <kmc> ah heraldry
00:58:20 <kmc> another great nomic
00:58:30 <kmc> i don't know anything about North Dakota not being a state
00:58:36 <Bike> coppro: there was some thing a few months ago about how some technicality meant they weren't (like it matters)
00:58:57 <Bike> http://newsfeed.time.com/2011/07/14/because-of-constitution-error-north-dakota-is-not-a-state-and-never-has-been/
00:59:01 <GreyKnight> Bike: see previous comments re: nomic I guess :-)
00:59:19 <hagb4rd> is that a Saint Andrew's Cross on the union jack?
00:59:26 <Bike> which previous comments
00:59:26 <GreyKnight> every piddling little detail matters in a nomic B-)
00:59:34 <Bike> there are so many! i'm still waiting on my bicyclocity
00:59:40 <kmc> is that like Pope John XX
01:00:05 <Bike> «There has never been a Pope John XX, because the 20th pope of this name, formerly Petrus Hispanus, when elected Pope in 1276, decided to skip the number XX and to be counted as John XXI instead» yesssss
01:00:45 <Bike> antipopes are still the best though
01:00:47 <kmc> there are also off-by-one errors on all the Popes Stephen because the one who was going to be Stephen II died before he technically got all the way popeified
01:01:02 <kmc> so Stephen VI is sometimes called Stephen VII, etc
01:01:02 <hagb4rd> though the high numbers symbolize continuity
01:01:14 <Bike> GreyKnight: oh, it just amuses me
01:01:27 <kmc> there was confusion on whether there had already been a John XX i think
01:01:38 <Bike> the history of the papacy is really amusing and interesting
01:02:04 <coppro> just wait till Pope John XXX
01:02:22 <kmc> Motherboy XXX
01:02:38 <hagb4rd> i don't think it'll wrap over soon :p
01:03:13 <Bike> GreyKnight: like kmc said, there was some confusion about which johns there had been so far
01:04:27 <Bike> there are two thousand years of popes, it's hard to keep records for that long
01:04:43 <Bike> or, 1200 years of popes, at the time
01:04:46 <hagb4rd> how can this be? the history of popes is documented very well (since the clerks were able to write)
01:04:48 <GreyKnight> It's easy to take modern record-keeping for granted
01:05:02 <oerjan> hagb4rd: the rotation thing makes sense if you think of the particles not just as isolated in space, but actually connected to the outside by threads; if you have a ball like that and try to rotate it 360 degrees it turns out you _cannot_ untangle the threads, but if you rotate it 720 degrees you can
01:05:05 <hagb4rd> but maybe they have excomunicated the one or the other
01:05:24 <Bike> hagb4rd: being able to write doesn't necessarily mean your records are accurate...
01:05:26 <kmc> well for the first few hundred years, christianity was a persecuted minority cult
01:05:29 <kmc> so there's that
01:05:38 <kmc> and there have been various schisms
01:05:39 <Bike> yeah pretty much all of the first ones were martyred
01:05:41 <GreyKnight> oerjan: A subatomic particle is a bit like a monad
01:05:42 <coppro> hagb4rd: that's only like another 10 johns
01:05:46 <kmc> or people invade and take over your city
01:05:59 <oerjan> GreyKnight: well they have the nuclear waste part right, at least
01:06:03 <Bike> also we've changed date systems a couple times
01:06:12 <Bike> so there goes that time accuracy
01:06:34 <Bike> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Hyginus so we end up with a lack of information like so
01:06:37 <GreyKnight> You rotate the particle and put up a flag. Then you put the flag in a space suit and jump into some nuclear waste. You can take as many burritos as you want!
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01:06:49 <hagb4rd> oerjan: phew.. that's hard to imagine
01:07:05 <coppro> hagb4rd: I lied. 7 more Johns
01:08:07 <kmc> back later
01:08:08 <GreyKnight> hm I haven't read the burrito one yet actually... to the search engine!
01:08:32 <Bike> i thought "monads were like burritos" was from that article about monad tutorials sucking
01:09:06 <coppro> every year, the vatican publishes a list of popes
01:10:43 <GreyKnight> Someone managed to actually map the properties of a monad to burritos: http://blog.plover.com/prog/burritos.html
01:12:16 <coppro> GreyKnight: turns out categories crop up every now and then in real life
01:12:19 <coppro> especially poset categories
01:12:59 <GreyKnight> fungot: would you like to be in a category?! You would fit right in!
01:13:00 <fungot> GreyKnight: call it by name.
01:13:21 <GreyKnight> fungot: how about we call it... Fungot?
01:13:22 <fungot> GreyKnight: i think i did that wrong anyway." ( interactive) ( let ( ( z ' get))
01:13:33 <coppro> GreyKnight: for instance, you can form a poset category from a bunch of tiles
01:14:00 <coppro> a set of tiles comes before another set if the first set can be cut up to produce the second
01:14:06 <GreyKnight> oh, that's why somebody was conflating category theory with bathroom interior design the other day :-D
01:14:40 <coppro> `addquote <coppro> GreyKnight: for instance, you can form a poset category from a bunch of tiles <GreyKnight> oh, that's why somebody was conflating category theory with bathroom interior design the other day :-D
01:14:44 <HackEgo> 908) <coppro> GreyKnight: for instance, you can form a poset category from a bunch of tiles <GreyKnight> oh, that's why somebody was conflating category theory with bathroom interior design the other day :-D
01:15:05 <coppro> `addquote this quote is formatted wrong to annoy quitopia also it's not a quote
01:15:09 <HackEgo> 909) this quote is formatted wrong to annoy quitopia also it's not a quote
01:15:10 <oerjan> hagb4rd: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rzt_byhgujg
01:15:18 <HackEgo> 590) <Ngevd> "Facekicker" Hird is a member of the Hird family <Phantom_Hoover> Ngevd, world-renowned detective.
01:15:32 <HackEgo> 361) <elliott_> I'm not even going to try and understand what you're proposing. <oerjan> i understand it perfectly. it's completely nuts. \ 109) <oerjan> alise: mainly it's the fact it blows so hard i cannot avoid hitting the walls of the thing, which completely goes against my basic public toilet hygiene principles \ 16) <fungot> oerjan: are you
01:15:50 <coppro> on one has "pictureofapotato.com"
01:15:56 <fungot> shachaf: unfortunately i still don't know my t-shirt size? :) ( of course, they're for the easiest machine mangling as a quote
01:17:02 <GreyKnight> fungot: I'm not buying you a T-shirt if you're just going to machine-mangle it
01:17:03 <fungot> GreyKnight: syntax-rules is fun as a palindrome? predicate" seems like a
01:17:21 <oerjan> hagb4rd: not quite the same but i couldn't quite find what i am thinking of
01:17:31 <GreyKnight> fungot wants bash to support syntax-rules?
01:17:31 <fungot> GreyKnight: i prefer darcs? cool)... but it's not
01:18:45 <hagb4rd> orerjan: yea. it is hard to explain and imagine.. but i think i have a vague picture of what're out to say
01:19:16 <oerjan> hagb4rd: i'm wondering if what i said is literally correct, it _should_ be possible to make a video of it if it is true
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01:20:05 <GreyKnight> Ørjan's Video Representation Hypothesis
01:20:27 <GreyKnight> if it is true, it is possible to make a video of it
01:21:00 <GreyKnight> hagb4rd further conjectures that the video can be in 3D
01:22:56 <hagb4rd> (i even marked it as irony for sure)
01:23:40 <hagb4rd> arg forget this expressions
01:23:46 <shachaf> monqy: do you know a lot about functors
01:24:11 <oerjan> of course it can be in 3D.
01:26:16 <hagb4rd> maybe..i tried to imply that the mathematicians need more than 3 dimensions.. but it may work for your analogy
01:26:46 <oerjan> they don't need 3 for the cup demonstration or the belt trick
01:26:53 * hagb4rd looks for his stereo glasses
01:26:59 <oerjan> it's a theorem about rotations _in_ 3d, after all
01:31:30 <hagb4rd> there seem to be an affinity to a moebius strip (in which it takes two rounds to get back to start)
01:33:05 <monqy> shachaf: what's a lot
01:35:29 <monqy> my answers not sure, too
01:35:48 <shachaf> monqy: you know the operation p a -> p (a,b)?
01:35:53 <shachaf> and the operation p a -> p (Either a b)
01:36:28 <monqy> whoa how'd that b get in there!!!!
01:37:11 <shachaf> so do you know anything about these things
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01:37:30 <monqy> wild guess: the left one is {-# LANGUAGE TupleSections #-} fmap (,b), and the second one is fmap Left
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01:37:44 <shachaf> monqy: no it's forall a b.
01:38:06 <shachaf> and also you can't use fmap
01:38:14 <shachaf> because you don't know the variance of the functors
01:38:31 <shachaf> all you know is invariant ie (a -> b) -> (b -> a) -> p a -> p b
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01:40:54 <monqy> forall b..........spooky..............
01:41:24 <shachaf> monqy: not really spooky when you use it contravariantly!!
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01:41:34 <shachaf> like newtype Op r a = Op (a -> r)
01:42:28 <monqy> but then the second one is spooky. the one with the either????
01:42:40 <shachaf> but then just use the second one covariantly
01:43:07 <monqy> but you said i didnt know the variances......
01:43:23 <shachaf> monqy: you don't know the variances when you use the operations
01:43:39 <shachaf> but then you can pick p when you're instantiating p yourself
01:44:58 <shachaf> monqy: another good invariant functor: Endo????
01:45:03 <shachaf> newtype Endo a = Endo (a -> a)
01:45:27 <shachaf> monqy: i'd like to mention that Endo supports both of these operations??
01:48:01 <shachaf> monqy: btw you can sort of generalisze them to any comonad/monad?
01:48:36 <shachaf> p a -> p (w a), p a -> p (m a)
02:02:07 <shachaf> monqy: So ideally these operations would be on superclasses of Functor/Contravariant?
02:04:07 <monqy> idk is invariant "any good"
02:08:49 <shachaf> monqy: well pretty much every haskell type is invariant
02:08:56 <shachaf> except for the "weird ones"??
02:09:14 <shachaf> also "weird one??" like gadts
02:09:26 <monqy> does that mean it's "any good"
02:10:23 <shachaf> it means it's "the goodest"
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03:02:09 * oerjan thought that was a 1337 way of saying good night
03:04:19 <hagb4rd> oerjan: it is yes. in german it is "gute nacht" or shortly "nacht" and 8 is "acht"
03:04:35 <hagb4rd> it almost works in english
03:05:29 <oerjan> except .. WHY ARE YOU STILL HERE THEN
03:07:00 <hagb4rd> as i mentioned it was the wrong window. i was n8ing someone in a query.
03:07:32 <oerjan> oh right it's not a symmetric relation
03:07:56 <hagb4rd> at least i think it is not
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03:08:54 <oerjan> hm almost works in italian or french too
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03:09:58 <hagb4rd> mysterious relation in the etymology of "night" and "eight"
03:10:41 <oerjan> they're probably all inheriting both words from common indoeuropean
03:15:32 <oerjan> @remember camccann Clearly the reason why edwardk uses Haskell now is because every C++ compiler has a restraining order against him.
03:15:45 <lambdabot> cmccann says: Clearly the reason why edwardk uses Haskell now is because every C++ compiler has a restraining order against him.
03:16:15 <oerjan> @forget camccann Clearly the reason why edwardk uses Haskell now is because every C++ compiler has a restraining order against him.
03:16:22 <shachaf> cmccann is his nick in IRC.
03:16:29 <shachaf> (It used to be syntaxglitch, I think?)
03:17:00 <shachaf> oerjan: what do you think of the "isomorphism" between ((a,b,c),a) and (a,b,c)
03:17:04 <shachaf> pretty cool isomorphism huh
03:20:30 <oerjan> this is obviously some strange usage of the word "isomorphism" that I hadn't previously been aware of.
03:21:42 <shachaf> well it's (\((_,y,z),x') -> (x',y,z)) (\(x,y,z) -> ((x,y,z), x))
03:22:20 <oerjan> :t (\((_,y,z),x') -> (x',y,z)) (\(x,y,z) -> ((x,y,z), x))
03:22:21 <lambdabot> The lambda expression `\ (x, y, z) -> ...' has one argument,
03:22:22 <lambdabot> but its type `((t0, t2, t3), t1)' has none
03:22:22 <lambdabot> In the first argument of `\ ((_, y, z), x') -> (x', y, z)', namely
03:22:58 <shachaf> oerjan: that's two lambdas...................
03:23:03 <shachaf> @ty iso (\((_,y,z),x') -> (x',y,z)) (\(x,y,z) -> ((x,y,z), x))
03:23:04 <lambdabot> (Functor f, Isomorphic k) => k ((t1, t2, t3) -> f (t4, t5, t6)) (((t, t2, t3), t1) -> f ((t4, t5, t6), t4))
03:23:31 <shachaf> 19:23 <lambdabot> (Functor f, Isomorphic k) => k ((t1, t2, t3) -> f (t4, t5, t6)) (((t, t2, t3), t1) -> f ((t4, t5, t6), t4))
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03:27:21 <shachaf> Wow, Evince downloaded this document all the way to 274% before opening it.
03:27:31 <shachaf> *That's* a dedicated PDF viewer.
03:31:30 <kmc> today in zombie 6.001 we used as an example this function (translated to Haskell):
03:31:33 <kmc> unique [] = []; unique (x:xs) = x : unique (filter (/= x) xs)
03:31:59 <kmc> this is amusingly similar to
03:31:59 <kmc> primes [] = []; primes (x:xs) = x : primes (filter ((/= 0) . (`mod` x)) xs)
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03:33:51 <kmc> :t let foo f g k [] = k; foo f g k (x:xs) = f x (foo f g k (g xs)) in foo
03:33:52 <lambdabot> (t -> t1 -> t1) -> ([t] -> [t]) -> t1 -> [t] -> t1
03:34:09 <kmc> monqy: hm, I guess this does relate to the super small prime sieve using nubBy
03:34:12 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:17: parse error on input `)'
03:34:23 <shachaf> I think it's pretty directly related.
03:34:30 <kmc> is the 'foo' i just defined a something-morphism?
03:35:15 <shachaf> (a -> b -> b) -> ([a] -> [a]) -> b -> [t] -> b?
03:35:21 * shachaf can't read those types with the digits.
03:35:38 <shachaf> (a -> b -> b) -> ([a] -> [a]) -> b -> [a] -> b?
03:35:47 <shachaf> That looks a lot like a fold with an extra filtering step.
03:35:53 <kmc> that's what it is
03:36:03 <monqy> a fold with an extra "something"
03:36:10 <monqy> who knows what it could be
03:36:17 <shachaf> But not really a fold because you get an extra concrete list.
03:36:21 <shachaf> Sort of like a paramorphism?
03:36:28 <Sgeo> Is my old college likely to have advisor that alumni can speak to
03:36:29 <kmc> also at the end we trolled the students with ((\x -> x x) (\x -> x x))
03:36:44 <kmc> Sgeo: that depends on what you want this advisor to do
03:36:50 <kmc> if the answer is "beg you for money" then certainly
03:36:58 <shachaf> kmc: When do you get to ((call/cc call/cc) (call/cc call/cc))?
03:36:59 <kmc> if other things then maybe
03:37:05 <Sgeo> Help me decide whether it's a good idea to go to grad school or just look for a job
03:37:07 <kmc> shachaf: I don't even know that one :/
03:37:26 <kmc> don't go to grad school
03:38:00 <shachaf> kmc: Well, start with (call/cc call/cc)
03:38:13 <shachaf> (define x (call/cc call/cc))
03:38:46 <shachaf> Er, the first three lines have a "λ> " in front of them.
03:39:04 * Sgeo 's mind breaks
03:39:21 <shachaf> What's a good Scheme interpreter to use to test things?
03:39:26 <kmc> how does it...
03:39:32 <shachaf> Usually I use "scm" because it's easy to remember the name.
03:39:34 <kmc> shachaf: i just tested it in DrRacket
03:39:38 <kmc> that's what we're using for the class
03:39:39 <Bike> shachaf's is an infinite loop, isn't it
03:39:40 <kmc> it's not exactly Scheme
03:39:48 <Sgeo> kmc, there's an R5RS mode
03:39:48 <Bike> is anything exactly Scheme
03:39:52 <shachaf> Oh, I seem to remember that waas good.
03:39:56 <kmc> yeah but something is broken about it
03:40:11 <shachaf> Oh, it wants to download 60MB.
03:41:05 * shachaf doesn't have that kind of bandwidth!
03:41:14 <kmc> tin can internet?
03:41:53 <shachaf> The issue is a stupid router that makes everything unusable when a download is going on.
03:41:57 <Sgeo> Bike, shachaf's is a one-shot mutation. Somehow.
03:41:59 <kmc> buffer bloat :(
03:42:17 <shachaf> Sgeo: Well, not necessarily, I think?
03:42:18 <Bike> Sgeo: i mean (c(call/cc call/cc) (call/cc call/cc)). the define thing is relatively simple
03:42:21 <kmc> you could rate-limit your download to be just under your max bandwidth
03:42:43 <shachaf> kmc: I could, but the bandwidth is also somewhat variable.
03:42:43 <kmc> then interactivity will improve
03:42:55 <shachaf> Also I don't know a good way of doing it without coöperation from a process.
03:43:01 <shachaf> Which doesn't really work for a typical browser, say.
03:43:02 <kmc> does it vary as a poisson process whose rate is subject to brownian motion but is 'sticky' at zero?
03:43:16 <shachaf> It's something you *could* do from outside the process but I don't think Linux supports it.
03:43:20 <kmc> (rather is packet delivery modeled as such)
03:43:31 <kmc> netem can throttle things i think
03:44:00 <kmc> i'm trying to figure out what the second call/cc does in (define x (call/cc call/cc))
03:45:25 <Bike> it gets called?
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03:46:43 <Bike> (define x (call/cc call/cc)) => (define x (call/cc (define x []))) => (define x (define x [])), I think
03:47:18 <Bike> er no, there's the side effect of defining x in there i suppose?
03:49:29 <kmc> that is mind-twisty
03:49:39 <monqy> saw what about it? theres a few wacky things going on
03:49:44 <oerjan> Bike: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Subtle_cough
03:50:40 <monqy> subtle cough is cute
03:50:54 <Bike> ternary logic through continuations, it's what i always wanted
03:51:36 <kmc> don't know what in particular, i just understand the evaluation steps and why they produce the resulting behavior
03:52:35 <monqy> imo it's easier to see if you throw out the 2nd call/cc and replace it with an identity function, but then it's not as confusing or aesthetically pleasant
03:53:20 <kmc> hm that does work too
03:53:32 <monqy> i was real into that sorta junk a few years ago
03:53:52 <shachaf> what sorta junk are you into now
03:54:11 <monqy> you could say that........
03:56:26 <monqy> you could say that too!
03:57:04 <monqy> lenses are neato but i wouldnt say i'm real "into" them at the moment
03:57:40 <shachaf> monqy: do you like "simple lenses"
04:00:00 <monqy> what does simple mean here...im guessing theres no relation to the Simple type alias in the lens package.....
04:00:34 <shachaf> pretty much all these lenses are simple
04:00:46 <shachaf> so you have Lens s a instead of Lens s t a b
04:00:56 <kmc> 100% less stabby
04:01:08 <monqy> it looks a bit overcomplicated if you're not even polymorphic gosh
04:01:18 <shachaf> monqy: the idea was to get insights!!!!
04:01:20 <monqy> what makes it worth it
04:02:13 <shachaf> monqy: we're not actually going to use these "are you crazy??"
04:02:16 <Sgeo> (call/cc identity) is very easy to understand
04:02:37 <monqy> shachaf: are you going to use the insights
04:02:46 <shachaf> Sgeo: (identity identity) is even easier to understand.
04:03:26 <Sgeo> But (call/cc identity) has the same external effect as (call/cc call/cc) (even if they work differently, I have no idea)
04:04:01 <Bike> but it's Aesthetically Undesirable
04:05:15 <shachaf> monqy: so what are you actually into
04:05:46 <monqy> maybe lenses too who knows
04:05:56 <monqy> pff how should i know
04:06:02 <kmc> racket seems to have every possible kind of delimited continuations
04:06:38 <Sgeo> I still only understand shift/reset :/
04:06:50 <Sgeo> And have no idea how the continuation model of Racket works
04:07:15 <shachaf> who needs continuations just use coroutines??
04:07:59 <kmc> i'm kind of surprised there is apparently no get/cc ?
04:08:26 <Bike> shachaf said it was More Powerful
04:08:27 <shachaf> That's callCC (return . fix) in Haskell!
04:09:00 <shachaf> Bike: Well, in Haskell, callCC (return . fix) lets you do more things than callCC
04:09:06 <shachaf> Like get your program into an infinite loop.
04:09:17 <Bike> an important thing to do
04:09:47 <kmc> :t return . fix
04:11:11 <shachaf> @ty callCC (\k -> return (fix k))
04:18:18 <Sgeo> The Racket logo is pretty http://docs.racket-lang.org/images/pict_101.png
04:19:09 <kmc> hm that's not the one on http://racket-lang.org/ though
04:19:26 <kmc> the one you linked is pretty busy
04:19:32 <kmc> there's a shadow and a bubble and a lens flare (?)
04:19:44 <kmc> i agree it's pretty, but it's not a good logo
04:19:56 <Bike> 10 million hours in POV-ray
04:20:05 <shachaf> The Racket logo looks like the Tnuva logo.
04:20:16 <shachaf> http://www.apax.com/media/2041/Tnuva.JPG
04:21:16 <monqy> does tnuva look like tuna for a reason or did they just pick a silly name
04:21:50 <shachaf> monqy: it's in hebrew.............
04:22:04 <kmc> is the logo meant to be a stylized tav
04:22:12 <Bike> what's the hebrew for "tuna"?
04:23:37 <kmc> it's hard to know how much it looks like a letter, without being someone who uses this script
04:23:42 <Bike> "tuna" <-- fucking loanwords
04:24:14 <monqy> shachaf: does that mean it looks like tuna in hebrew too
04:24:16 <shachaf> Well, it's pretty stylized.
04:24:39 <shachaf> monqy: no because tuna is spelled with a tet
04:24:49 <Sgeo> Maybe if I rewrite the call/ccs into a more recognizable form
04:24:53 <shachaf> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teth
04:24:55 <shachaf> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tav_(letter)
04:25:01 <Sgeo> (call/cc (lambda (k1) (call/cc k1)))
04:26:06 <Bike> makes perfect sense
04:26:28 <hagb4rd> @ask gregor you said the sandbox behind hackego is designed to support the usage of external webservices in a native(?) way. can you give me hint, or a short example how it's done? or just a keyword i should look for? (what i'd like to do is sth like `run <call REST-service> | <transform response> | paste)
04:26:32 <Sgeo> (call/cc (lambda (k1) (call/cc (lambda (k2) (k1 k2)))))
04:26:47 <monqy> whoa sgeo we don't want to get too recognizable here
04:26:51 <shachaf> Sgeo: does clojure even have call/cc........
04:26:55 <Gregor> hagb4rd: It's DESIGNED to, but it doesn't work right now. It's just an HTTP proxy.
04:26:56 <lambdabot> Gregor: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
04:27:15 <Sgeo> shachaf still doesn't understand me :(
04:27:30 <shachaf> Is Racket the new Clojure?
04:27:44 <kmc> call-with-current-proxyfactorybean
04:28:09 <shachaf> I prefer call-with-current-proxyfactorybeansingleton
04:28:14 <Sgeo> Maybe if I rewrite into let/cc
04:28:29 <Sgeo> (let/cc k1 (let/cc k2 (k1 k2)))
04:28:34 <monqy> Sgeo: so what's the new factor
04:28:43 <hagb4rd> gregor: so would i use this proxy to call a service (if it wasn't broken)? a short example
04:28:51 <monqy> shachaf: are you sure....
04:28:56 <shachaf> monqy: Racket is just that good
04:28:59 <hagb4rd> gregor: so how would i use ..
04:29:03 <monqy> are you sgeo? I hear you still don't understand him
04:29:13 <shachaf> monqy: don't believe everything you hear
04:29:18 <Gregor> hagb4rd: Depends on what language you're doing this in. They each have their own way to use an HTTP proxy. If you just want to curl or wget, those'll work out of the box.
04:30:13 <hagb4rd> gregor: as described i want to use it the shell
04:30:27 <Gregor> <call REST service> tells me nothing though.
04:30:44 <Gregor> Is that call just a curl call? If so, just use it, curl knows how to handle $http_proxy.
04:30:57 <shachaf> `curl http://slbkbs.org/hi
04:30:59 <HackEgo> % Total % Received % Xferd Average Speed Time Time Time Current \ Dload Upload Total Spent Left Speed \
04:31:01 <hagb4rd> aw it's just like fetching an url ..not more
04:31:10 <hagb4rd> if wget will work things are fine
04:31:30 <Gregor> I only mentioned curl because usually it's more scriptable.
04:32:23 <Gregor> My sandbox's ability to communicate with the proxy.
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04:33:14 <Gregor> Well, I'm not sure if it's a problem with umlbox or something else. If you fetch umlbox and see if you can get its -L option to work, that'd give me a headstart, but it would be hours of work for you, or ten minutes for me ;)
04:33:47 <HackEgo> \ curl: (7) couldn't connect to host
04:34:26 <shachaf> monqy: how into lenses are you
04:34:35 <shachaf> monqy: enough to join #haskell-lens??
04:36:35 <Gregor> `run curl http://google.com/
04:36:37 <HackEgo> \ curl: (7) couldn't connect to host
04:36:55 <Gregor> `run wget http://google.com/
04:36:56 <HackEgo> --2013-01-11 04:36:56-- http://google.com/ \ Connecting to 127.0.0.1:3128... failed: Connection refused.
04:37:00 <Gregor> `run wget http://www.google.com/
04:37:02 <HackEgo> --2013-01-11 04:37:01-- http://www.google.com/ \ Connecting to 127.0.0.1:3128... failed: Connection refused.
04:38:24 <hagb4rd> are you sure there is no blacklist/whitelist at all?
04:38:44 <Gregor> hagb4rd: The whitelist is on the proxy. This is failing to connect TO the proxy.
04:41:06 <Gregor> It works if I run it on the shell, but not from the bot...
04:44:16 <HackEgo> ls: invalid option -- ' ' \ Try `ls --help' for more information.
04:44:31 <HackEgo> ls: cannot access -: No such file or directory \ ls: cannot access l: No such file or directory \ ls: cannot access bin/wget: No such file or directory
04:44:35 <Gregor> `run curl http://google.com/
04:44:36 <HackEgo> \ curl: (7) couldn't connect to host
04:44:40 <Gregor> `run curl http://www.google.com/
04:44:41 <HackEgo> \ curl: (7) couldn't connect to host
04:45:07 <Gregor> `run curl http://www.google.com/
04:45:09 <HackEgo> % Total % Received % Xferd Average Speed Time Time Time Current \ Dload Upload Total Spent Left Speed \
04:45:24 <Gregor> `run wget http://www.google.com/
04:45:26 <HackEgo> --2013-01-11 04:45:25-- http://www.google.com/ \ Connecting to 127.0.0.1:3128... failed: Connection refused.
04:45:37 <Gregor> `run sleep 5 ; wget http://www.google.com/
04:45:51 <HackEgo> --2013-01-11 04:45:50-- http://www.google.com/ \ Connecting to 127.0.0.1:3128... connected. \ Proxy request sent, awaiting response... 200 OK \ Length: unspecified [text/html] \ Saving to: `index.html' \ \
04:46:02 <oerjan> curiouser and curiouser
04:46:19 <HackEgo> <!doctype html><html itemscope="itemscope" itemtype="http://schema.org/WebPage"><head><meta content="Search the world's information, including webpages, images, videos and more. Google has many special features to help you find exactly what you're looking for." name="description"><meta content="noodp" name="robots"><meta itemprop="image" content
04:46:20 <hagb4rd> what is it? connection timeout`?
04:46:22 <Gregor> hagb4rd: The problem is that it can't communicate when it's initialized. As a temporary workaround, sleep for a second before making the request.
04:46:37 <Gregor> Or bombard the server with connection requests for a while.
04:47:38 <oerjan> `run sleep 1 ; translatefromto en de Does this work any longer?
04:47:42 <HackEgo> Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/bin/json", line 4, in <module> \ data = json.loads(sys.stdin.read().decode('utf-8')) \ File "/opt/python27/lib/python2.7/json/__init__.py", line 310, in loads \ return _default_decoder.decode(s) \ File "/opt/python27/lib/python2.7/json/decoder.py", line 346, in decode \ obj, end
04:48:06 <oerjan> `run sleep 1 ; translatefromto 'en de Does this work any longer?'
04:48:11 <HackEgo> Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/bin/json", line 4, in <module> \ data = json.loads(sys.stdin.read().decode('utf-8')) \ File "/opt/python27/lib/python2.7/json/__init__.py", line 310, in loads \ return _default_decoder.decode(s) \ File "/opt/python27/lib/python2.7/json/decoder.py", line 346, in decode \ obj, end
04:49:00 <oerjan> i vaguely recall they discontinued that service, anyhow
04:50:41 <oerjan> `cat bin/translatefromto
04:50:42 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash \ TEXT="$1" \ FROM=`echo "$TEXT" | sed 's/ .*$//'` \ TEXT=`echo "$TEXT" | sed 's/^[^ ]* //'` \ TO=`echo "$TEXT" | sed 's/ .*$//'` \ TEXT=`echo "$TEXT" | sed 's/^[^ ]* //'` \ if [ "$FROM" = "auto" ] ; then FROM="" ; fi \ \ curl -e http://codu.org/ http://ajax.googleapis.com/ajax/services/language/translate \ \ --data-urlenco
04:51:02 <oerjan> `run cat bin/translatefromto | tac
04:51:03 <HackEgo> json 'data["responseData"]["translatedText"]' \ --data-urlencode langpair="$FROM"'|'"$TO" 2> /dev/null | \ --data-urlencode q="$TEXT" \ \ --data-urlencode v=1.0 \ \ curl -e http://codu.org/ http://ajax.googleapis.com/ajax/services/language/translate \ \ \ if [ "$FROM" = "auto" ] ; then FROM="" ; fi \ TEXT=`ec
04:51:38 <oerjan> `run grep -l curl bin/*
04:51:40 <HackEgo> bin/tclkit \ bin/translatefromto
04:51:48 <oerjan> `run grep -l wget bin/*
04:51:49 <HackEgo> bin/lua \ bin/luac \ bin/macro \ bin/units
04:53:09 <oerjan> `url bin/translatefromto
04:53:11 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/bin/translatefromto
05:16:14 <hagb4rd> Gregor: one more thing: would you mind to install mono on that sandbox? (i promise i'll stop buggin you..at least for today :P)
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06:02:14 <kmc> 'Take the Chanukah dreidel game, combine it with poker, and you've got a new dreidel experience that is truly fun. You'll check, bet, raise, or fold depending on the strength of your dreidel hand (or how much you like to bluff).'
06:05:17 <Sgeo> I hope they actually describe the game more thoroughly than "Take the Chanukah dreidel game, combine it with poker"
06:05:59 <monqy> quite an interesting concept, deserving of explanation
06:06:11 <Sgeo> Oh, there's a video of an explanation
06:06:18 <Bike> are there any dreidel-based esolangs
06:06:34 <Sgeo> Don't entirely understand what there is to pay for, exactly
06:07:10 <kmc> i think drawing the cards/whatever as independent trials fundamentally destroys a lot of the poker strategy
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07:44:02 <kmc> well in hold 'em, some of the information asymmetry between players comes from using the cards only you can see to modify you probability estimate for what cards other people have
07:45:57 <kmc> i don't really know how important it is though
07:46:05 <kmc> cause i don't play poker very much or have any skill whatsoever
07:46:51 <oklofok> i've never understood how poker is supposedly not at all about luck when there's so little information you get during the game
07:49:13 <Bike> the idea is that you can get the information you need from reading the other players, isn't it
07:49:34 <oklofok> like their faces and shit?
07:49:53 <Bike> taken to its most extreme form in indian poker, of course
07:50:08 <oklofok> the people i know who play both internet poker and real poker don't seem to consider them different games.
07:50:42 <Bike> maybe they are bad at poker :P
07:51:10 <Bike> and of course, reading isn't limited to facial expressions
07:51:14 <Bike> e.g. watching how they bet
07:51:26 <oklofok> yeah they do talk about that kind of reading
07:51:29 <fizzie> That's true, you can read e.g. books.
07:52:12 <Bike> which of course adds another layer of play since you have to watch how you bet to make sure they're getting the possibly false information you want to have, and so on up the levels
07:52:57 <hagb4rd> epic piece of acoustic art --> http://hagbard.host-ed.me/media/weltamdraht.html
07:53:20 <Bike> like, even if you're randomly dealt a royal flush, that won't do you any good if you can't convince people to bet lots of money that round for you to win
08:02:59 <kmc> oklofok: in hold 'em there is a fair amount of shared information
08:03:33 <kmc> and so there's a fair amount of strategy, in addition to the luck and psychology elements
08:04:00 <kmc> which is probably why hold 'em became so popular
08:06:05 <kmc> and it's not just about who has the best hand at the end
08:06:21 <kmc> there are multiple rounds of betting, and a lot of strategy about what to bet when and how much
08:06:24 <kmc> especially in no-limit games
08:06:45 <kmc> and a lot of hands are won by everyone else folding, in which case nobody shows their private cards
08:07:13 <kmc> the problem i have with hold 'em is that statistically, most hands are not worth playing
08:08:08 <kmc> but it's boring to fold many hands in a row
08:08:30 <oklofok> isn't there a total order on the final hands?
08:09:19 <kmc> (you can have multiple winners due to ties or side pots, but that's not super important)
08:09:43 <oklofok> i'm just wondering where "not worth playing" comes from
08:10:24 <oklofok> about 1/n of hands are statistically worth playing with n players no matter what the rules are?
08:11:12 <oklofok> (not true but perhaps you have some wisdom that answers the underlying wonderingment.)
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08:13:29 <oklofok> also in this sort of game, the best strategys could depend on culture among poker players
08:14:00 <oklofok> people sharing some misconceptions say
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08:15:30 <kmc> i think it is based on some assumption about other people's behavior
08:16:13 <kmc> people with bad hands will generally fold
08:17:04 <Fiora> which I guess means on average you're playing against only the people who think they have good hands, right?
08:17:25 <Fiora> so people who have bad hands don't contribute to the pot, which makes things worse than 1/n
08:22:21 <kmc> if everyone always stayed in, then you would have a 1/n chance, but the strategy of folding bad hands will beat that and so the former isn't stable
08:23:29 <kmc> and the way the math for a stable strategy works out, the "bad hands" you want to fold are most of them
08:23:36 <kmc> judging only from the two private cards you see initially
08:23:42 <kmc> but i haven't done the math, this is just what people tell me
08:25:10 <kmc> got to sleep now, 'night all :)
08:25:39 <hagb4rd> <kmc>people with bad hands will generally fold <- only poker noobies do that
08:29:04 <hagb4rd> there are players out there who don't even look at their cards..just to avoid any physiological reaction
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09:07:14 <Arc_Koen> hagb4rd: but if the other players know you haven't looked at your cards, you're giving them too much information already!
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10:20:55 <hagb4rd> Arc_Koen: yes it's not easy looking at your cards without looking at your cards ;)
10:25:34 <hagb4rd> but anyway.. the hand itself isn't that important. sure you can try to make your opponents think that you only play good hands (in order to do so you sometimes need to fold good hands)..unexpected behaviour.. variation... and suggestion
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12:02:13 <GreyKnight> `addquote <Bike> the idea is that you can get the information you need from reading the other players, isn't it [...] <Bike> and of course, reading isn't limited to facial expressions [...] <fizzie> That's true, you can read e.g. books.
12:02:23 <HackEgo> 910) <Bike> the idea is that you can get the information you need from reading the other players, isn't it [...] <Bike> and of course, reading isn't limited to facial expressions [...] <fizzie> That's true, you can read e.g. books.
12:02:47 <fizzie> For the record, I didn't read (pun not intended) the first comment.
12:03:09 <GreyKnight> I only played poker once (not for money), I used the abovementioned "just ignore what your cards say" approach. It was pretty funny, I cleaned up :-)
12:03:20 <GreyKnight> (having a naturally impassive face helps)
12:04:59 <fungot> fizzie: imitate riastradh _failure_continuation_ is for.
12:05:49 * GreyKnight proposes the creation of #esoteric-update
12:10:55 <elliott> I think people expect me to complain that 910 is formatted incorrectly, so here's a line.
12:48:43 <Sgeo> elliott, Taneb Fiora, not-a-certain-someone-else: Also be sure to click the little icons at the top
12:50:12 <Taneb> (has elliott caught up again?)
12:50:48 <elliott> Taneb: I don't think you understand the List.
12:54:54 <GreyKnight> elliott: you seriously need to write down these formatting rules, I TRY to follow them but nobody ever specifies, they just complain
12:55:08 <HackEgo> quote formatting? ¯\(°_o)/¯
12:57:37 <HackEgo> 2011-05-12.txt:10:40:56: <cheater_> for example the space between the source items could, inside the editor, be zero-width
12:57:52 <hagb4rd> `run pastelog space between
12:57:58 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.14698
12:58:17 <elliott> `run diff bin/pastelog{,s}
12:59:12 <hagb4rd> `run pastelog oerjan.*space.*between
12:59:29 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.1037
13:00:13 <GreyKnight> oh look one of those is actually relevant *faints*
13:00:38 <hagb4rd> `learn quote-fromatting "two spaces between quoted lines. only one space on each side of [...] ellipses. no space between nicks and the surrounding <>'s."
13:00:39 <GreyKnight> it still doesn't tell how many spaces to use around an [...] which is itself between quoted lines
13:00:58 <GreyKnight> maybe I'll compromise, put one space before such a lacuna, and two after
13:01:32 <hagb4rd> `run mv wisdom/quote-fromatting "quote formatting"
13:01:34 <HackEgo> mv: cannot stat `wisdom/quote-fromatting': No such file or directory
13:02:01 <HackEgo> ls: cannot access wisdom/qu*: No such file or directory
13:02:11 <HackEgo> wisdom/qdb \ wisdom/qdbformat \ wisdom/quine
13:02:58 <hagb4rd> `run echo " "two spaces between quoted lines. only one space on each side of [...] ellipses. no space between nicks and the surrounding <>'s." > "wisdom/quote formatting"
13:02:58 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
13:02:59 <HackEgo> bash: -c: line 0: unexpected EOF while looking for matching `'' \ bash: -c: line 1: syntax error: unexpected end of file
13:03:19 <hagb4rd> `run echo " "two spaces between quoted lines. only one space on each side of [...] ellipses. no space between nicks and the surrounding <>'s." > wisdom/quote formatting
13:03:20 <HackEgo> bash: -c: line 0: unexpected EOF while looking for matching `'' \ bash: -c: line 1: syntax error: unexpected end of file
13:03:28 <hagb4rd> `run echo " "two spaces between quoted lines. only one space on each side of [...] ellipses. no space between nicks and the surrounding <>'s." > wisdom/quote-formatting
13:03:30 <HackEgo> bash: -c: line 0: unexpected EOF while looking for matching `'' \ bash: -c: line 1: syntax error: unexpected end of file
13:03:42 <hagb4rd> `run echo "two spaces between quoted lines. only one space on each side of [...] ellipses. no space between nicks and the surrounding <>'s." > wisdom/quote formatting
13:04:03 <HackEgo> wisdom/qdb \ wisdom/qdbformat \ wisdom/quine \ wisdom/quote
13:05:02 <HackEgo> two spaces between quoted lines. only one space on each side of [...] ellipses. no space between nicks and the surrounding <>'s. formatting
13:05:29 <HackEgo> `? \ ? \ ⌨ \ ☃ \ 🐐 \ ais523 \ atriq \ augur \ banach-tarski \ boily \ bonvenon \ brain \ brainf**k \ brainfuck \ brick \ c \ cakeprophet \ category \ coffee \ comonad \ coppro \ egobot \ elliott \ endofunctor \ endomorphism \ england \ esoteric \ europe \ everyone \ finland \ finnish \ finns \ fizzie \ flower \ freefull \ friendship \ fun
13:06:29 <fizzie> I suppose it was just a cut. :/
13:06:45 <HackEgo> Brains are just receptacles for bricks.
13:07:10 <elliott> IMO these entries do not all live up to the high standards of the wisdom database
13:07:28 <fizzie> There's wisdom, and then there's wisdom.
13:08:04 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.29398
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13:08:58 <elliott> `? misspellings of croissant
13:09:00 <HackEgo> misspellings of crosant? ¯\(°_o)/¯
13:09:12 <elliott> I admit that one is pretty good
13:09:33 <HackEgo> qdb is used like: `quote; `quote regexp; `quote id; `addquote ...; `delquote id; `pastequotes regexp; `pastenquotes [n]; see also qdbformat
13:09:34 <HackEgo> qdbformat is: <nick> message; * nick action; two spaces between messages; all elisions marked with [...] other than irrelevant intervening messages; for messages separated by elision, one space on each side, not two
13:09:36 <HackEgo> two spaces between quoted lines. only one space on each side of [...] ellipses. no space between nicks and the surrounding <>'s. formatting
13:09:48 <elliott> `run rm wisdom/quote # content already present
13:10:09 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.3726
13:15:01 <hagb4rd> who cares about where it's stored? (db).. also what is q
13:15:20 <hagb4rd> as your lawyer i suggest to rename this entry
13:16:34 <GreyKnight> qdbformat is inconsistent with actual practice, for a bonus. I added a quote with irrelevant messages removed and oerjan put a [...] in there instead
13:16:50 <GreyKnight> starting to think maybe everybody has their own idea of "correct" here
13:17:41 <GreyKnight> hagb4rd: things like this are often called "QDBs" even if, as in this case, they aren't stored in a real database
13:17:45 <hagb4rd> i mean who will find this if you name it qdbformat? this sounds more like a documenation of a database architecture
13:18:04 <hagb4rd> i think you completely misunderstand what i'm saying
13:18:15 <GreyKnight> I would probably put it on wisdom/addquote personally
13:18:36 -!- sploknee has joined.
13:18:52 <GreyKnight> (you didn't seem to have run into the term "QDB" before)
13:19:19 -!- david_werecat has joined.
13:19:28 <GreyKnight> also we are not brothers? At least AS FAR AS I KNOW :-OOO
13:21:07 <GreyKnight> dqos = distributed quote organisation system
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13:22:36 <quintopia> me and hagb4rd have been bezng without you every friday afternoon
13:22:37 <fizzie> GreyKnight: It's the next generation bez.
13:22:39 <hagb4rd> it doesn't matter as long no one finds the information he's looking for in wisdom
13:22:59 <HackEgo> Think of a monad as a spacesuite full of nuclear waste in the ocean next to a container of apples. now, you can't put oranges in the space suite or the nucelar waste falls in the ocean, but the apples are carried around anyway, and you just take what you need.
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13:33:16 <hagb4rd> also the whole addqote thing is bullshit. one needs to quote in raw db-format. never seen such a stupid system. at least you don't need to paste it compressed as zip or sth
13:33:41 <quintopia> GreyKnight: i dont think said existence has been established. i mean, who's ever seen the guy?
13:40:58 <fizzie> I think I'm going to have to second that "wat".
13:44:20 <hagb4rd> it's symptomatic no one is able to add a simple quote the intuitive way. not even the prehistoric #esoteric members. you can just take a look at the 'corrected' version of the quotes file. ridiculous
13:44:50 <hagb4rd> and that's not only the old ones no
13:45:15 <hagb4rd> if you don't agree, you could express yourself clearly
13:47:36 <GreyKnight> Why doesn't bin/addquote just smoosh the formatting to be correct anyway? It would save a lot of griping.
13:48:51 <fizzie> I certainly don't agree if the suggestion is that the quote system should somehow try to heuristically guesstimate and normalize spacing and formatting, as opposed to being a simple "store a line of text" system.
13:49:02 <coppro> Sgeo: the icons at the top don't do anything for me :(
13:49:30 <Sgeo> coppro, hmm. Flash block?
13:49:56 <Sgeo> Also, your volume is up?
13:50:59 <GreyKnight> fizzie: maybe it can automatically notify oerjan and elliott to review and correct the quote before adding it
13:51:40 <coppro> Sgeo: ah that could be it
13:52:01 <coppro> Sgeo: I also like how you told fiora of an update after fiora told you
13:52:33 <Sgeo> coppro, I only told her (and everyone) to click the things at the top
13:52:55 <Sgeo> And also wanted to prove that I did in fact remember to not notify he-who-must-not-be-notified-of-Homestuck-updates
13:53:02 <GreyKnight> hagb4rd accidentally laughed instead of sighing
13:53:41 <hagb4rd> yes it was a horrible sound.. on the edge of madness and desperation
13:54:26 <fungot> Selected style: lovecraft (H. P. Lovecraft's writings)
13:54:42 <GreyKnight> fungot: hagb4rd accidentally laughed instead of sighing
13:54:45 <fungot> GreyKnight: the next day, and at vast intervals the small brown fnord nestling amidst huge trees beneath vertical precipices of fragrant brier and fnord. candlesticks and lot no. fnord, pabodie, and mctighe made an exhaustive aeroplane cruise over all the rest reigned that riot of luminous amorphousness, that alien and undimensioned rainbow of cryptic poison from the soil. he was hideously sure that in fnord there exists a basi
13:55:24 <fungot> GreyKnight: aeons ago, before even the gods had sent to the bottom; forgetting that all things appear as they do. i paint in the cellar the laboratory with the long table under the electric lights.
13:56:00 <fizzie> The same thing that always happens.
13:56:30 <fizzie> fungot: Why do you keep doing that?
13:56:30 <fungot> fizzie: we met no person, and as my hands went higher i knew that the room to a huge mahogany chest. he selected one, automatically.
13:56:52 <fungot> GreyKnight: now, in response to their requests, it was made the visitors could see that allen had already formed plans for dealing with the non-terrestrial planets. those sides fnord up so darkly and fnord that one wishes they would keep their distance, but this was not guessed till afterward, when old wateley drove his sleigh through the snow into dunwich village and discoursed incoherently to the group of loungers at osborne'
13:57:23 <GreyKnight> "non-terrestrial planets", i.e. almost all of them
13:59:33 <GreyKnight> hey Gregor, is there a convenient way to get a list of nicks currently in the channel from a HackEgo command? I had an idea
14:01:21 <GreyKnight> maybe have some code outside of the sandbox which maintains a list, then HackEgo can access it as a service via the HTTP proxy?
14:01:35 <Sgeo> I should probably go back to sleep
14:01:51 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.6763
14:02:58 <HackEgo> _ai \ _corewars \ _esoteric \ _esoteric-chess-variants \ _esoteric-minecraft \ _glogbot \ index.php \ log \ log.css \ log.js \ _plof \ raw \ _scapegoat \ stalker.php
14:03:04 <HackEgo> 2003-01-18-raw.txt \ 2003-01-18.txt \ 2003-01-19-raw.txt \ 2003-01-19.txt \ 2003-01-20-raw.txt \ 2003-01-20.txt \ 2003-01-21-raw.txt \ 2003-01-21.txt \ 2003-01-22-raw.txt \ 2003-01-22.txt \ 2003-01-23-raw.txt \ 2003-01-23.txt \ 2003-01-24-raw.txt \ 2003-01-24.txt \ 2003-01-25-raw.txt \ 2003-01-25.txt \ 2003-01-26-raw.txt \ 2003-01-26.txt \ 2003-01-
14:03:44 <GreyKnight> hm maybe we can just scrape it from the logs I suppose
14:04:23 <GreyKnight> in fact what I really want is "recently active online users" which is easy this way
14:04:26 <fizzie> That's nontrivial since it requires potentially (in theory, anyway) starting from the 2003 logs, and even that's not entirely reliable.
14:04:30 <fizzie> Oh, well, that's different.
14:04:44 <GreyKnight> fizzie: yeah that was what made me realise what I really wanted
14:04:57 <fizzie> What do you want it for?
14:05:50 <GreyKnight> I made a joke about a mechanical-turk command there but I figure I can actually do that: pick a user, send them the instructions, do something with their response :-)
14:05:50 <hagb4rd> yes.. you forgot to complete explaining your idea ;) what happens with this list? or is it a secret-surprise? ;)
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14:08:02 <GreyKnight> the application to quote formatting is obvious, I leave other applications of this idea to your imagination
14:08:19 <GreyKnight> I suppose this is a variant of http://esolangs.org/wiki/IRP
14:08:32 <fizzie> And how do you propose to send a private message from HackEgo?
14:08:45 <fizzie> (To someone else, I mean.)
14:09:01 <fizzie> It's not a general-purpose IRC spambot, you know.
14:09:43 <GreyKnight> hagb4rd: HackEgo communicates with us by virtue of his stdout being sent to the channel, he doesn't have a concept of IRC within the actual sandbox :-/
14:09:45 <hagb4rd> whazzup fizzie? i alway thought you're cool
14:10:10 <GreyKnight> allowing privmsgs from inside the sandbox would probably be a hilariously bad idea
14:10:22 <hagb4rd> you can speak with hackego in private
14:10:31 <hagb4rd> that's not what you mean? don't yo?
14:11:19 <hagb4rd> erm... i guess i don't get it
14:11:43 <hagb4rd> fungot.. why can't hackego send private messages?
14:11:44 <fungot> hagb4rd: freely and fnord. the legend had the effect of publicity would be to avoid paine, since the primal life history of this literary form.
14:12:09 <fungot> Selected style: sms (National University of Singapore SMS corpus, 2011-08-20)
14:12:36 <fizzie> fungot: What do you think about the idea of HackEgo being able to send privmsgs to anyone?
14:12:36 <fungot> fizzie: hey i am in extreme situations: first- before getting it... second- after loosing it." ( muslim) *to start ur day today at ktv. later she buy one not i ask de. she wanna go also. hehe
14:18:09 <GreyKnight> hagb4rd: there is a wrapper layer which talks to IRC: it accepts commands, passes them to the sandbox. The sandbox returns some output. The wrapper combines it all onto one line and sends it over IRC to the place the command came from (maybe a channel, or a private conversation)
14:20:03 <GreyKnight> what I wanted to do was have the sandbox command, mid-execution, talk to a *different* place on IRC (a private conversation with some user), then take the response, do something, and finally produce output from the original command. There's no way to do this in the aforementioned model
14:20:44 <GreyKnight> beecause the sandbox doesn't understand IRC, only the wrapper does :-)
14:21:35 <GreyKnight> (hm actually I guess the user's response would need to be handled via some sort of callback, but that's beside the point)
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14:23:11 <GreyKnight> of course there is good reason not to allow arbitrary privmsg sending, consider the following script: while true do irc.users["hagb4rd"].privmsg("spam spam spam") end
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14:24:03 <hagb4rd> sure.. but y not use hackego as the adapter between irc and the sandbox? this point is still not clear: ""then take the response, do something, and finally produce output from the original command"
14:24:53 <GreyKnight> well "do something" would depend on what you wanted to do (mechanical-turk would be a facility for creating commands)
14:25:31 <GreyKnight> "y not use hackego as the adapter between irc and the sandbox?" not sure what this means
14:26:04 <GreyKnight> HackEgo-the-IRC-username corresponds to the adapter layer that communicates between IRC and the sandbox
14:26:23 <GreyKnight> all the commands we have in /hackenv/bin/ are run *inside* the sandbox and hence can't see outside of it
14:26:26 <hagb4rd> i can execute the command on the shellbox --> take the response -> do whatever i want -> send it back -> and so on and so on
14:26:36 <hagb4rd> you can use services for that
14:26:44 <GreyKnight> in particular they don't know they're attached to IRC, you could run HackEgo on your desktop
14:28:10 <hagb4rd> the sandbox sends a http request to your desktop -> receives the response --> executes sth in the sandbox --> send this another service --> gets the response --> send it private to you
14:28:19 <GreyKnight> someone uses `newaddquote < fred> lol incorrect formatting :-3
14:29:04 <hagb4rd> send it private to you (by using hackegos interface)
14:29:25 <hagb4rd> i would like to scratch on some paper
14:29:33 <hagb4rd> that would make things clear i guess
14:29:53 <hagb4rd> IRC <-> HACKEGO <-> SANDBOX <-> webservice
14:29:56 <GreyKnight> we could use services to ask the adapter to send something over privmsg but that is kind of exploitable :-)
14:31:04 <hagb4rd> the communication should be only between these tiers
14:31:39 <GreyKnight> yes this works, but it doesn't solve the problem of control over how much/what kind of communication
14:31:52 <GreyKnight> you could spam people via such a thing :-/
14:32:59 <hagb4rd> `tell GreyKnight this is a test
14:33:01 <HackEgo> I think you mean "@tell GreyKnight this is a test" instead?
14:34:09 <hagb4rd> the lambdabot is able to send private messsages. also hackego could provide such a service. (including flood control etc)
14:34:42 <fizzie> But arbitrary code running on lambdabot is not able to send private messages.
14:34:52 <GreyKnight> lambdabot is attached directly to IRC :-P
14:34:57 <hagb4rd> IRC <-> HACKEGO <-> SANDBOX <-> webservice
14:35:34 <fizzie> The > [Haskell here] evaluator can't send privmsgs, and I seriously doubt it is ever going to be made to be able to do that.
14:35:53 <fizzie> (Even with any sort of flood control.)
14:36:15 <fizzie> (Plus @tell does not send private messages either.)
14:36:37 <GreyKnight> most likely approach would be to make some sort of third-party web service, have the service's engine join IRC itself, and somehow convince Gregor to whitelist that service
14:37:05 <fizzie> GreyKnight: You could just be submitting that stuff to the real Mechanical Turk and volunteer to pay for it.
14:41:37 <hagb4rd> greyknight.. we wouldn't need to get another bot. but we could leave messages in the sandbox...hackego could read this message and if so joins (or becomes active) he could notify this user that there are messages waiting for him on the sandbox (like the lambdabot does, but w/out sandbox).. then the user can read this messages by activly excuting a command
14:42:36 <GreyKnight> that is exactly what lambdabot already does so Gregor is even less likely to implement that :-)
14:43:50 <hagb4rd> it was your idea to execute commands in the sandbox and send private msg with some results of that operations to other users (lambdabot is not able to do that;)
14:45:09 <GreyKnight> the functionality you described is exactly what lambdabot does, except accessible to the sandbox, which makes it exploitable. (imagine checking your messages and getting 350 "male enhancement" messages) So Gregor will probably not be up for that
14:46:29 <hagb4rd> *sigh that's why i took it for an example. but i guess it (your idea) is not that relevant, because you're able to operate on the sandbox and pasting the result to lambdabot or whatever
14:47:05 <hagb4rd> if that was not your idea.. i still haven't got it. but nevermind ;)
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14:47:51 <hagb4rd> (i'm happy with the given configuration so far.. now having services..muahrhrhrhr)
14:48:01 <GreyKnight> My idea is supposed to be automatable, copy-pasting is no good. But without some sort of external webservice I don't see a way to do it safely. Even that may have safety problems, so I suppose I will just leave it.
14:49:38 <fizzie> Your idea was http://sprunge.us/NBfW if I got it right.
14:49:59 <hagb4rd> btw.. it wouldn't be a problem to exploit lambdabots functions .. a tiny script and you get your 350 male enhancement messages ;)
14:50:23 <hagb4rd> (as long as lambdabot does not provide a flood control or other resrtrictions)
14:50:44 <GreyKnight> hagb4rd: I doubt lambdabot's owners will be happy...
14:51:25 <sploknee> why are you all talking to hagb4rd
14:51:50 <GreyKnight> sorry we didn't get permission before having a conversation
14:51:57 <sploknee> have you not all realised that he's at least as dumb as itidus, but he's also under the delusion that he's intelligent?
14:52:34 <Sgeo> sploknee, I didn't forget sploknee
14:53:09 <Sgeo> Where has itidus been?
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14:59:19 <coppro> class is more fun when the prof prefers telling people that they're stupid to telling them that they're wrong
15:02:01 <GreyKnight> what if he tells them they're wrong *and* stupid?
15:03:30 <coppro> no, then it's cruel :(
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15:29:14 <Sgeo> run/fcontrol is interesting
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15:31:34 <Sgeo> run dynamically sets a handler that specifies what happens when you call fcontrol
15:31:44 <Sgeo> fcontrol is a function on a single argument
15:32:02 <Sgeo> And the handler that run specifies receives that argument and the continuation
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15:34:04 <GreyKnight> apparently control/prompt work like a monad
15:34:13 <GreyKnight> it all comes back to monads in the end!
15:34:18 <Sgeo> So, if the handler to run ignore the continuation and just returns the argument from fcontrol, within the thunk passed to run, fcontrol is an abort
15:36:55 <quintopia> Gregor: i guess ZEE is done for, now that someone has actually written the enhancement algorithm :D http://brainwindows.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/picture-101.png
15:38:03 <GreyKnight> quintopia: CSI will be very interested!!
15:38:31 <GreyKnight> didn't someone use a similar approach to vectorise old 8-bit sprites?
15:40:39 <GreyKnight> http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/um/people/kopf/pixelart/paper/pixel.pdf
15:40:45 <quintopia> GreyKnight: photoshop uses a very similar thing to fill in deleted areas of images "smartly"
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15:52:33 * Sgeo WILL try to understand Racket's evaluation model
15:53:35 <GreyKnight> just write a metacircular evaluator in Racket, do all your work in there, then you know exactly how it is evaluating :o)
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15:58:51 * GreyKnight puts some cookies inside a forcefield ⌇⌇ o o o ⌇⌇
15:59:38 <HackEgo> 845) <GreyKnight> fungot, sing me to sleep <fungot> GreyKnight: 53. file://localhost/ mnt/ space/ media/ books/ 1000+sci-fi%20books/%5bebooks%5d%201000+%20sciencefiction%20%26%20fantasy%20novels%20%28.lit%20forma/ pratchett%2c%20terry/ text/ 14/ fnord <GreyKnight> This is not a very good song \ 855) <GreyKnight> headache + train with screeching b
15:59:47 <shachaf> @brain are you thinking what GreyKnight is thinking
15:59:47 <lambdabot> Now, Pinky, if by any chance you are captured during this mission,
15:59:47 <lambdabot> remember you are Gunther Heindriksen from Appenzell. You moved to Grindelwald
15:59:47 <lambdabot> to drive the cog train to Murren. Can you repeat that?
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16:03:51 <GreyKnight> looks like c00kiemon5ter has been deterred (also: I just tried to tab-complete"looks". Just kill me now.)
16:09:03 <GreyKnight> but how did he get through the forcefield?!? @u@
16:10:26 <c00kiemon5ter> I did not! the cookielicious force within me grew outside the forcefield absording the crumbles
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16:14:02 <c00kiemon5ter> sin^2(cookies) + cos^2(cookies) = tan^(cookies) = nom
16:14:39 <GreyKnight> Arc_Koen: cookies are beyond your feeble rules of mathematics
16:16:46 <Arc_Koen> I don't know... trying to get tanned with chocolate... weird idea
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16:20:24 <GreyKnight> dough + white chocolate chips + parma violets = ultraviolet cookie??
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16:31:44 <hagb4rd> `addquote * GreyKnight puts some cookies inside a forcefield ⌇⌇ o o o ⌇⌇ <GreyKnight>what now c00kiemon5ter?!? * c00kiemon5ter omnomnomnomnomnomnomnom <GreyKnight>but how did he get through the forcefield?!? @u@ <c00kiemon5ter>I did not! the cookielicious force within me grew outside the forcefield absording the crumbles <GreyKnight>darn cookie physics
16:31:48 <HackEgo> 911) * GreyKnight puts some cookies inside a forcefield ⌇⌇ o o o ⌇⌇ <GreyKnight>what now c00kiemon5ter?!? * c00kiemon5ter omnomnomnomnomnomnomnom <GreyKnight>but how did he get through the forcefield?!? @u@ <c00kiemon5ter>I did not! the cookielicious force within me grew outside the forcefield absording the crumbles <GreyKnight>darn c
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16:41:04 <HackEgo> bin \ canary \ egobot.tar.xz \ etc \ factor \ factor-linux-x86-64-0.95.tar.gz \ foo \ foo.err \ foo.out \ gktemp \ ibin \ index.html \ interps \ karma \ lib \ luabuild \ paste \ quotes \ quotese \ run \ share \ test \ wisdom \ zalgo.hs
16:41:19 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/quotes
16:48:37 <GreyKnight> c00kiemon5ter: cookie-based esolang plox
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16:58:45 <coppro> Taneb: WHAT'S NOT TO THINK ABOUT HOMESTUCK
17:00:20 <Sgeo> coppro, did you get top banner working?
17:00:44 <coppro> which was a shame because I missed the ENGAGING remix of Homestuck Anthem
17:03:53 <Sgeo> I'm certain that someone predicted this, but was not taken seriously
17:06:34 <Taneb> I think that describes most of Homestuck
17:08:13 <Sgeo> Someone apparently predicted the big reveal of [S] Cascade as a joke
17:09:12 <Taneb> I think that Jane's in Eridan's dream bubble, looking at it
17:10:53 <Taneb> That looks Land of Angels, certainly
17:11:00 <Taneb> Not so mach Land of Wrath, though
17:11:43 <Sgeo> It looks like the Land of WTFIDON'TEVENKNOWANYMORE
17:13:00 <Sgeo> <Sgeo> <Taneb> LOWTF
17:13:00 <Sgeo> <techloveArtist> YES
17:13:00 <Sgeo> <techloveArtist> THAT IS IT
17:13:00 <Sgeo> <techloveArtist> Tell Taneb I approve.
17:13:36 <Taneb> Tell him his approval is appreciated
17:13:57 <Taneb> Or whatever pronoun techloveArtist likes
17:14:20 <Sgeo> Taneb, join us!
17:14:45 <Sgeo> irc.swiftirc.net #MSPA
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18:21:30 <nortti> "When someone says: 'I want a programming language in which I need only say what I wish done', give him a lollipop."
18:24:09 <c00kiemon5ter> btw (Sgeo), I think I like Factor, though I have done nothing with it, just show some talks and read some docs
18:24:32 <Sgeo> c00kiemon5ter, cool
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18:27:23 <Sgeo> I should finish watching DS9 at some point
18:27:28 <Sgeo> But I should also work on my SL project
18:27:33 <Sgeo> And put my resume out
18:35:48 <coppro> you should probably do the last first
18:35:54 <coppro> and probably the second never
18:38:37 <coppro> elliott: happy birthday
18:40:01 <Sgeo> coppro, arguably, I should do the second first, and the third second
18:40:30 <Sgeo> The second is something I could potentially put on a resume
18:40:42 <coppro> elliott: happy halloween!
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18:41:53 <coppro> copumpkin: can I carve you?
18:44:47 -!- GreyKnight has joined.
18:45:07 <GreyKnight> In dual category, copumpkin carves *you*!
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18:45:50 <HackEgo> 618) <shachaf> VMS Mosaic? <shachaf> I hope that's not Mosaic ported to VMS. <shachaf> Hmm. It's Mosaic ported to VMS.
18:45:54 <Bike> a game about furries
18:46:52 <Sgeo> GreyKnight, just a little ride
18:46:59 <Sgeo> Roll up the tube, roll down the tube
18:47:43 <Sgeo> I thought any programming work I did that I could talk about counted as resumeable?
18:49:02 <GreyKnight> I don't know anything about SL, you can code stuff for it then?
18:49:05 <shachaf> Does Clojure support resuming? I thought it didn't have first-class continuations.
18:53:38 <Sgeo> GreyKnight, yes
18:54:22 <Sgeo> shachaf, even ignoring the fact that you're still acting as though Clojure is my current obsession, CL has resumable exceptions without having first-class continuations
18:54:26 <Sgeo> GreyKnight, yes, LSL.
18:55:08 <shachaf> CL barely has first-class functions.
18:56:23 <olsner> what does it mean for soemthing to be first-class? can you have a language entirely without first-class constructs?
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19:02:52 <GreyKnight> olsner: hmm do you need variables for "first-class" to be meaningful?
19:03:53 <FireFly> olsner: brainfuck probably doesn't have any first-class constructs
19:04:07 <kmc> are there any lisp-3s?
19:04:24 <Bike> CL has a lot more than two namespaces, so yes
19:04:29 <GreyKnight> I guess you need a concept of "variables" at least
19:04:34 <sploknee> CL is a lisp-5 or something even excluding configurable stuff.
19:04:54 <Bike> alternately, obscure joke about reflective experimental lisps here
19:05:22 <Bike> variables, applicatives, and operatives?
19:06:35 <kmc> you can have the same name bound to both an applicative and an operative?
19:07:03 <kmc> that would be confusing as hell
19:07:25 <Bike> yeah i'm not sure how that would work with wrapping and all
19:08:14 <Sgeo> You need to use an operative to apply an applicative
19:08:15 <GreyKnight> Easy, use (applicative) and [operative]
19:08:59 -!- david_werecat has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
19:09:26 <Bike> «it's all «combination» in the end»
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19:16:42 <kmc> GreyKnight: no i don't think you need variables for the concept of 'first class'
19:16:50 <kmc> just values
19:17:10 <Bike> so integers are first class in brainfuck?
19:17:29 <kmc> it's not like a terribly well-defined thing
19:19:23 -!- Taneb has joined.
19:24:26 <kmc> http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/01/17000-linux-powered-rifle-brings-auto-aim-to-the-real-world/ wooooonderful, a rifle with a wifi access point built in
19:24:30 <kmc> i'm sure it is completely secure
19:27:20 <Bike> i can use my phone to remotely spot for my sniper friend? it's just what i've always wanted
19:27:47 <Bike> "There's a social media aspect, too" ok, this is hilarious.
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19:32:55 <sploknee> It says in the article that it physically cannot fire unless the trigger is being held down.
19:33:22 <Bike> what if someone hacks in and changes the video feed to the scope
19:33:25 <Bike> wouldn't that be fun?
19:33:35 <sploknee> The worst it could do is make it possible to fire it by just pulling the trigger.
19:34:14 <kmc> the worst it could do is make someone think they are shooting at one thing, when they are actually shooting at something else
19:34:19 <kmc> seems pretty bad
19:35:43 <sploknee> Assuming they don't check what the gun's pointed at without the scope.
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19:36:21 <kmc> i'm no gun expert but i believe doing so would defeat the point of the scope
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19:36:49 <sploknee> I'm no gun expert either but I believe a basic part of safety is situational awareness.
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19:37:23 <fizzie> I liked the bit where it's expensive enough to come with an iPad preloaded with the fancy video feed software.
19:37:32 <kmc> oh it actually comes with the ipad?
19:38:05 <sploknee> "The price is relatively highthe rifles start at about $17,000"
19:38:37 <fizzie> The article I was reading said it's around $25 grand (which is compatible with that figure, of course) and comes with it.
19:38:44 <fizzie> Maybe at $17k you don't get it.
19:39:17 <sploknee> No, you get it for the 17k version too.
19:43:10 <fizzie> Oh. Oh well. But what if you're a flaming NetBSD enthusiast or something and don't want your rifle to come with an Apple product?
19:43:45 <Bike> the coveted BSD sniper market
19:44:49 <kmc> http://www.tpdnews411.com/2013/01/marijuana-fqa.html 'Q) I have a warrant for my arrest and just wanted to smoke a "little weed" while riding my train. My warrant had nothing to do with my marijuana, what's the problem?'
19:51:03 <fizzie> Incidentally, is there a free Android IRC client that does client-side SSL certificates? (AndroIRC seems to, but it costs moneys, and I'm a cheapskate.)
19:52:00 <fizzie> AndChat just says "SSL Support" with no mention of client-side certs, Yaaic I can't really tell of.
19:55:05 <fizzie> (Oh, AndroIRC doesn't cost money, the version that does is to disable ads. Well, anyway.)
19:55:22 <fizzie> (It was "Android IRC" that costed money.)
19:55:30 <fizzie> (These are all very imaginatively named.)
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20:07:12 <olsner> ö is a smiley all by its own
20:15:56 <oerjan> <GreyKnight> it still doesn't tell how many spaces to use around an [...] which is itself between quoted lines
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20:17:08 <oerjan> @tell <GreyKnight> it still doesn't tell how many spaces to use around an [...] which is itself between quoted lines <-- one space on each side, in fact those are the main kind
20:17:35 <elliott> oerjan: thats not how @tell works
20:17:54 <oerjan> @tell GreyKnight <GreyKnight> it still doesn't tell how many spaces to use around an [...] which is itself between quoted lines <-- one space on each side, in fact those are the main kind
20:18:20 <Taneb> By which I mean probably not
20:18:56 <oerjan> olsner: the only way i know is by nick stealing
20:19:18 <olsner> < and > are probably not allowed in a nick, what a shame
20:19:18 <oerjan> which is a bit rude you could say
20:19:29 <oerjan> olsner: indeed i had that pointed out last time i did this
20:20:50 <oerjan> elliott: if GreyKnight just had the sense to be online when i join, i would not make most of these errors!
20:21:18 <olsner> or the sense not to log out
20:24:04 <oerjan> well that's not as good, i'm weary of message people who are long time idle
20:25:10 <oerjan> (next time open wiktionary _before_ speaking)
20:25:37 <olsner> easily upmiscible words
20:32:36 <HackEgo> 910) <Bike> the idea is that you can get the information you need from reading the other players, isn't it [...] <Bike> and of course, reading isn't limited to facial expressions [...] <fizzie> That's true, you can read e.g. books.
20:33:13 <oerjan> `run sed -i '910s/ [[]...] /[...]/g' quotes
20:33:21 <HackEgo> 910) <Bike> the idea is that you can get the information you need from reading the other players, isn't it [...] <Bike> and of course, reading isn't limited to facial expressions [...] <fizzie> That's true, you can read e.g. books.
20:35:02 <elliott> oerjan: my complaint was badly-received enough that I did not feel like spending the effort, sorry!
20:35:45 <fizzie> Quotes, the leading cause of nickpings these days.
20:36:10 <elliott> oerjan: btw I feel the [...] there are probably obfuscatory.
20:37:12 <HackEgo> 14) <fizzie after embedding some of his department research into fungot> Finally I have found some actually useful purpose for it. \ 38) <fizzie> Seconds. 30 of them. Did I forget the word? \ 144) <fizzie> It's like mathematicians, where the next step up from "trivial" is "open research question". <fizzie> "Nope... No...This problem can't be done
20:38:09 <fizzie> I forget which word I forgot there.
20:38:14 <oerjan> <GreyKnight> (having a naturally impassive face helps) <-- always keep an impassive face near inflammable materials
20:39:07 <oerjan> elliott: you need to write a thesis on proper [...] use
20:43:36 <HackEgo> quote formatting? ¯\(°_o)/¯
20:43:55 <HackEgo> qdbformat is: <nick> message; * nick action; two spaces between messages; all elisions marked with [...] other than irrelevant intervening messages; for messages separated by elision, one space on each side, not two
20:44:10 <elliott> for all the whining that entry has been there for over a year
20:45:34 <oerjan> good you told me before i added my completely silly explanation based on quantum pair production of spaces.
20:45:50 <HackEgo> 188) <zzo38> Maybe they should just get rid of Minecraft. If more people want it someone can make using GNU GPL v3 or later version, with different people, might improve slightly. \ 312) <Phantom_Hoover> Scotland turns from red and yellow to A DIFFERENT SHADE OF YELLOW \ 364) <Gregor> You just went from "no sexualized ads" to "we have ads for dildo
20:46:30 <nortti> ioccc just keeps impressing me
20:48:05 <HackEgo> qdb is used like: `quote; `quote regexp; `quote id; `addquote ...; `delquote id; `pastequotes regexp; `pastenquotes [n]; see also qdbformat
20:49:08 <HackEgo> cat: wisdom/: Is a directory
20:49:11 <HackEgo> cat: wisdom/: Is a directory
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20:49:42 <HackEgo> See `? for further details.
20:50:08 <HackEgo> `? \ ? \ ⌨ \ ☃ \ 🐐 \ ais523 \ atriq \ augur \ banach-tarski \ boily \ bonvenon \ brain \ brainf**k \ brainfuck \ brick \ c \ cakeprophet \ category \ coffee \ comonad \ coppro \ egobot \ elliott \ endofunctor \ endomorphism \ england \ esoteric \ europe \ everyone \ finland \ finnish \ finns \ fizzie \ flower \ freefull \ friendship \ fun
20:50:15 <HackEgo> wisdom is always factually accurate, except for this entry
20:50:49 <shachaf> HackEgo supports cat wisdom now?
20:50:54 <ais523> the `? wisdom entry is, of course, completely a lie
20:51:00 <HackEgo> cat: wisdom/*: No such file or directory
20:51:05 <HackEgo> See `? for further details. \ ? is wisdom \ ☃ brrr... \ You are probably using one right now! \ 🐐 <(Unicode goat laments your inability to render Unicode goat.) \ Agent "Iä" Smith is an alien with a strange allergy to avian body covering, which he is trying to retroactively prevent from ever evolving. \ atriq or two \ augur took no cakes. \ "
20:54:59 <HackEgo> #!/bin/sh \ topic=$(echo "$1" | sed 's/ .*//' | tr A-Z a-z) \ info=$(echo "$1" | sed 's/[^ ]* //') \ echo "$1" >"wisdom/$topic" \ echo "I knew that."
20:55:35 -!- ogrom has joined.
20:55:37 <fizzie> `run ls wisdom/* | grep -v ngevd | xargs -i grep cake "{}"
20:55:45 <HackEgo> augur took no cakes. \ Gregor took forty cakes. He took 40 cakes. That's as many as four tens. And that's terrible.
20:56:31 <HackEgo> wisdom/ngevd: symbolic link to `/dev/urandom'
20:56:46 <fizzie> That was an exercise in frustration. ngevd's /dev/urandom link made a plain "grep ... *" not work, and the straight-forward | xargs grep hit the spaces.
20:56:59 <fizzie> Maybe a find -print0 | xargs -0 would've been better, though.
20:57:18 <ion> find … | xargs … can usually be replaced with find … -exec …, too.
20:57:31 <olsner> `run grep -l cake wisdom/* | xargs cat
20:58:36 <fizzie> `run find wisdom -not -name ngevd -print0 | xargs -0 grep -h cake
20:58:36 <olsner> btw the new bond movie appears to be completely pointless
20:58:38 <HackEgo> augur took no cakes. \ Gregor took forty cakes. He took 40 cakes. That's as many as four tens. And that's terrible.
20:58:51 <fizzie> It's arguably better but not shorter.
20:59:34 <fizzie> (-exec would've also been hokay.)
21:00:02 <fizzie> Also "run find wisdom -not -name ngevd" reads like a story.
21:00:11 <fizzie> Run, find wisdom; don't ask anyone called ngevd.
21:01:55 -!- zzo38 has joined.
21:01:57 <lambdabot> FireFly said 3d 5h 29m 41s ago: (re. puzzle.1) You only need two retreats I think: http://hastebin.com/wohodetece
21:01:57 <lambdabot> GreyKnight said 1d 1h 55m 6s ago: What are your thoughts on plan9? Inquiring minds want to know.
21:03:03 <HackEgo> Your evil overlord oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a lying Norwegian.
21:03:13 <augur> how do i take a cake!
21:04:34 <FireFly> Huh, do hastebin pastes expire?
21:04:41 <zzo38> Yes, puzzle.1 requires only two retreats.
21:04:44 <ais523> is hastebin like pastebin, but faster?
21:04:52 <zzo38> However, some puzzles need other number of retreats.
21:05:07 <FireFly> http://hastebin.com/jopafacoko that was my solution
21:05:19 <oerjan> `run echo "Quotes are just elements of the quantum dilapitated bogosphere. See qdb." >wisdom/quote
21:05:23 <FireFly> er, by puzzle.1 I meant puzzle.3 I think
21:05:32 <HackEgo> Quotes are just elements of the quantum dilapitated bogosphere. See qdb.
21:05:56 <oerjan> `run echo "Quotes are just elements of the quantum dilapitated bogosphere. See qdb." >wisdom/quote #elliott doesn't like double spaces _other_ than between quotes
21:06:04 <HackEgo> Quotes are just elements of the quantum dilapitated bogosphere. See qdb.
21:06:13 <zzo38> Yes, puzzle.3 also need only two retreats. Well, actually it depends what your opponent will play, I think.
21:06:43 <HackEgo> FreeFull is either full of freedom or free of fulldom, we are not sure. \ F
21:07:20 <ais523> bleh, now I want to !bfjoust something and randomly get top 10 on the leaderboard
21:07:23 <Sgeo> http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2012/01/11/embed-map-test/
21:07:27 <fizzie> FireFly: With a name like that... (re hastebin and expiration)
21:08:28 <HackEgo> FreeFull is either full of freedom or free of fulldom, we are not sure. \ F
21:08:37 <fizzie> Do sprunge pastes expire? Would've thought they'd be running out of the four-character namespace soon otherwise.
21:08:39 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined.
21:08:47 <fizzie> That's not a whole lot.
21:10:05 <oerjan> `run sed -i '2,$d' wisdom/freefull
21:10:12 <HackEgo> FreeFull is either full of freedom or free of fulldom, we are not sure.
21:10:28 <zzo38> FireFly: Did you solve puzzle.3 what is your solution?
21:10:49 <oerjan> FreeFull: i didn't realize your revert 0 back when was actually trying to revert something that needed reversion
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21:11:06 <oerjan> FreeFull: bah, those weren't the same date
21:11:27 <FireFly> zzo38: yes, I think so, and <FireFly> http://hastebin.com/jopafacoko that was my solution
21:11:38 <FireFly> (I misremembered when I said I solved puzzle.1)
21:13:14 <FireFly> er, "WIND" should be Gust of Wind
21:13:15 <fizzie> `run find wisdom -type f -not -name ngevd -exec wc -l {} \; | grep -v '^1 '
21:13:34 <fizzie> I suppose that's fair.
21:13:42 <FireFly> Oh, it shouldn't. it was a move apparently
21:14:47 <zzo38> FireFly: It is not a helpmate; you must consider all opponent's possibility.
21:15:43 <zzo38> Also, your Clefairy has no energy.
21:16:08 <zzo38> O no wait, it does.
21:16:44 <zzo38> Still, you need to consider the opponent's possibility of retreating.
21:16:49 <FireFly> Oh, hm, I didn't consider that the opponend could retreat the Ponyta for Rapidash
21:16:59 <zzo38> Yes; that is what I meant.
21:18:28 <zzo38> FireFly: Now that you consider the opponent can retreat, then do you have idea to play next?
21:19:58 <zzo38> Phantom__Hoover: Look in the list of ideas; if you don't like the ones already there based on Pokemon, add one!
21:21:44 <FireFly> Let's see.. if we assume the opponent retreats to Rapidash, we could stall for another turn by using WIND again, and then continue 'til the opponent runs out of cards
21:21:48 <FireFly> But I don't think that counts
21:22:24 <FireFly> (and if the opponent doesn't retreat or retreats to the other Ponyta you could just OHKO it via curse + ember)
21:23:52 <zzo38> Continuing until the opponent runs out of cards does count; however, since you used BILL, you will run out of cards first.
21:24:52 <FireFly> Hmm, and I do need the BILL in order to start it off
21:29:12 <FireFly> instead of using bill, we retreat for Haunter, then retreat again for Clefairy and discard the recycle energy
21:29:20 <FireFly> thus getting it back to the hand so we can attach it to Clefairy
21:29:42 <FireFly> and thus, we could still follow the stall-or-KO-ponyta tactic
21:30:36 <FireFly> (did I miss something again?)
21:30:53 <zzo38> Haunter's retreat cost is zero.
21:31:40 <FireFly> Bah! evolve to Gengar then
21:31:46 <FireFly> just to up the retreat cost
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21:36:04 <FreeFull> Imagine if *nix had lazy files
21:36:12 <FreeFull> So they could be infinite in size
21:36:53 <olsner> I guess what you really want is a special file the starts a process when you open the file
21:37:14 <olsner> you can probably do that with fuse
21:38:04 <fizzie> There are systems where it's more integral than using fuse.
21:38:08 <oerjan> <sploknee> have you not all realised that he's at least as dumb as itidus, but he's also under the delusion that he's intelligent?
21:38:59 <zzo38> FireFly: Do you know the puzzle.1 and puzzle.2 and can you make any of your own Pokemon Card puzzles?
21:39:21 <fizzie> I am under the impression that Hurd has a lot of translators that do not need any terribly special privileges in order to provide "file-like" interfaces.
21:39:50 <oerjan> Phantom__Hoover: i hope you are just lousy at making jokes here.
21:40:16 <fizzie> http://www.gnu.org/software/hurd/hurd/translator.html -- that kind of thing.
21:40:36 <Phantom__Hoover> oerjan, no comment due to not knowing what you're talking about.
21:40:54 <oerjan> Phantom__Hoover: see the above paste.
21:41:04 <FireFly> zzo38: I did make one but I haven't triple-checked that it's not solvable in an easier way than what I intend
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21:41:08 <FireFly> (and it's not all that hard)
21:41:28 <zzo38> FireFly: I would like to see anyways
21:41:42 <FireFly> http://hastebin.com/kodagalime
21:41:42 <oerjan> Phantom__Hoover: i take it you were, then.
21:43:44 <zzo38> FireFly: Is it OK with you if I make a copy? (I can add your name and whatever else you want on it, if you wanted)
21:44:25 <FireFly> You could credit me with my nickname, that'll do
21:46:16 <oerjan> Phantom__Hoover: i don't think insulting someone like that is acceptable if it's not _clearly_ a joke to all involved.
21:46:59 <Phantom__Hoover> Unless the person doing it is a troll or something, then you couldn't care less.
21:48:32 <oerjan> ...that is precisely the kind of response a troll would give, isn't it.
21:49:29 <Phantom__Hoover> Perhaps you'll even kick people who complain about me now.
21:49:56 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o oerjan.
21:50:07 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: +b *!*sploknee@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486.
21:50:07 -!- oerjan has kicked Phantom__Hoover Have a break!.
21:50:14 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -o oerjan.
21:50:29 <hagb4rd> hey keep cool guys. i'm don't feel insulted.
21:50:39 <hagb4rd> he just had a bad day i guess
21:50:58 <zzo38> FireFly: I have done; I have added your name, converted to ASCII, and corrected the spelling of "Defending".
21:51:12 <zzo38> Other than that I have made no changes.
21:51:28 <oerjan> hagb4rd: good, good. i've decided he needs a lesson nonetheless.
21:52:50 <hagb4rd> also my statements were kind of harsh too,
21:53:20 <quintopia> fizzie: the four character name space is 14.7m because case-sensitive
21:53:38 <quintopia> but yeah, i assume they will overwrite things eventually
21:56:27 <oerjan> hagb4rd: this isn't really about a single event. i don't find it acceptable that he insults other people _and_ complains about my lax moderation at the same time.
21:57:52 <oerjan> then he shouldn't be surprised if i suddenly decide to make it stricter.
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22:07:58 <Phantom_Hoover> oerjan, FTR lax moderation is one thing; actively contrarian moderation is quite another.
22:07:58 <lambdabot> Phantom_Hoover: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them.
22:08:02 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o oerjan.
22:08:40 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: +b *!*@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486.
22:08:53 -!- oerjan has kicked Phantom_Hoover Ban evasion.
22:08:53 <quintopia> true. Phantom_Hoover is correct, oerjan. actively contrarian is far better than lax moderation.
22:09:23 <Taneb> I can't take this madness any more
22:09:37 <Taneb> I'm going to move to the next track of this muse album
22:10:08 <quintopia> u m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-mad-mad-mad bro?
22:10:10 <Taneb> Hey, I like this song
22:10:19 <oerjan> why the heck doesn't mode allow removing stricter -b instances
22:10:24 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -o oerjan.
22:10:38 <Taneb> We've arrived at panic station
22:11:06 <quintopia> is that a muse song? i thought it was someone else
22:11:28 <olsner> ah, Panic Station is the song that comes after Madness
22:17:22 <HackEgo> 911) * GreyKnight puts some cookies inside a forcefield ⌇⌇ o o o ⌇⌇ <GreyKnight>what now c00kiemon5ter?!? * c00kiemon5ter omnomnomnomnomnomnomnom <GreyKnight>but how did he get through the forcefield?!? @u@ <c00kiemon5ter>I did not! the cookielicious force within me grew outside the forcefield absording the crumbles <GreyKnight>darn c
22:18:09 <oerjan> `sed -i '911s/>/> /' quotes
22:18:09 <HackEgo> Usage: sed [OPTION]... {script-only-if-no-other-script} [input-file]... \ \ -n, --quiet, --silent \ suppress automatic printing of pattern space \ -e script, --expression=script \ add the script to the commands to be executed \ -f script-file, --file=script-file \ add the contents of script-
22:18:12 <oerjan> `run sed -i '911s/>/> /' quotes
22:18:19 <HackEgo> 911) * GreyKnight puts some cookies inside a forcefield ⌇⌇ o o o ⌇⌇ <GreyKnight> what now c00kiemon5ter?!? * c00kiemon5ter omnomnomnomnomnomnomnom <GreyKnight>but how did he get through the forcefield?!? @u@ <c00kiemon5ter>I did not! the cookielicious force within me grew outside the forcefield absording the crumbles <GreyKnight>darn
22:18:48 <oerjan> `run sed -i '911s/>/> /g' quotes
22:18:57 <HackEgo> 911) * GreyKnight puts some cookies inside a forcefield ⌇⌇ o o o ⌇⌇ <GreyKnight> what now c00kiemon5ter?!? * c00kiemon5ter omnomnomnomnomnomnomnom <GreyKnight> but how did he get through the forcefield?!? @u@ <c00kiemon5ter> I did not! the cookielicious force within me grew outside the forcefield absording the crumbles <GreyKnight> da
22:23:30 -!- Arc_Koen has quit (Quit: Arc_Koen).
22:24:24 <FireFly> I presume the cutoff isn't intentional
22:24:48 <hagb4rd> hackego cuts it off actually
22:24:50 <FireFly> Maybe remove the last line
22:24:53 <HackEgo> scisyhp eikooc nrad >thginKyerG< selbmurc eht gnidrosba dleifecrof eht edistuo werg em nihtiw ecrof suoicileikooc eht !ton did I >ret5nomeik00c< @u@ ?!?dleifecrof eht hguorht teg eh did woh tub >thginKyerG< monmonmonmonmonmonmonmo ret5nomeik00c * ?!?ret5nomeik00c won tahw >thginKyerG< ⌇⌇ o o o ⌇⌇ dleifecrof a edisni seikooc emos stup t
22:25:45 <lambdabot> elliott: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
22:25:54 <Sgeo> elliott, monqy Taneb Fiora
22:26:04 <FireFly> `run quote 911 | cut -c100-
22:26:06 <HackEgo> c00kiemon5ter?!? * c00kiemon5ter omnomnomnomnomnomnomnom <GreyKnight> but how did he get through the forcefield?!? @u@ <c00kiemon5ter> I did not! the cookielicious force within me grew outside the forcefield absording the crumbles <GreyKnight> darn cookie physics
22:26:18 <Sgeo> ... the bot may have lied
22:26:46 <oerjan> `run sed -i '911s/^ */$/' quotes
22:26:54 <Sgeo> bot did not lie
22:26:58 <Sgeo> There really is an update
22:27:13 <oerjan> `run sed -i '911s/^ *//' quotes
22:27:21 <HackEgo> 911) * GreyKnight puts some cookies inside a forcefield ⌇⌇ o o o ⌇⌇ <GreyKnight> what now c00kiemon5ter?!? * c00kiemon5ter omnomnomnomnomnomnomnom <GreyKnight> but how did he get through the forcefield?!? @u@ <c00kiemon5ter> I did not! the cookielicious force within me grew outside the forcefield absording the crumbles <GreyKnight> dar
22:27:23 <Fiora> Jane is heading to Jake's planet... oh. oh dear.
22:27:56 <FireFly> oh.. wrong kind of character
22:29:29 <HackEgo> 909) this quote is formatted wrong to annoy quitopia also it's not a quote
22:29:36 <HackEgo> *poof* this quote is formatted wrong to annoy quitopia also it's not a quote
22:29:53 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: quoteadd: not found
22:30:00 <oerjan> also worst misspelling of elliott i've seen
22:30:57 <oerjan> Sgeo: you might want to take elliott off your list. just a friendly hint before i go out to buy some horse heads.
22:31:28 <Sgeo> Wait, did elliott say he wanted to come off the list? I forget?
22:31:45 <Sgeo> I remember someone claimed he wanted that, I think, but he didn't say it himself?
22:32:03 <HackEgo> 30) <oklopol> i can get an erection out of a plank, you can quote me on that. \ 70) [Warrigal] `addquote <Dylan> hahaha, Lawlabee is running windows <Lawlabee> 'cuz it's pretty awesome. [Lawlabee] Warrigal: :( \ 71) Note that quote number 124 is not actually true. \ 79) <ais523> let's put that in the HackEgo quotes files, just to completely mys
22:32:49 <HackEgo> 124) <Sgeo> Why shouldn't I just do everything in non-Microsoft-specific C#? <ais523> it's like trying to write non-IE-specific JavaScript with only Microsoft documentation and only IE to test on
22:33:18 <FireFly> I guess the indices have been shifted
22:34:11 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving).
22:34:18 <Sgeo> At some point I will write a program to retrieve every quote that has ever been in there
22:35:14 <FireFly> Also, the formatting in #70 looks weird to me
22:36:03 <oerjan> i think i didn't dare edit #70 because recursion (the _quoted_ part of quotes should be accurate)
22:36:11 <elliott> 70 is one of those quotes broken enough that you just give up and let it be.
22:36:16 <HackEgo> 70) [Warrigal] `addquote <Dylan> hahaha, Lawlabee is running windows <Lawlabee> 'cuz it's pretty awesome. [Lawlabee] Warrigal: :(
22:36:35 <HackEgo> 70) [Warrigal] `addquote <Dylan> hahaha, Lawlabee is running windows <Lawlabee> 'cuz it's pretty awesome. [Lawlabee] Warrigal: :( \ 82) <Warrigal> Making a small shrine to Lawlabee in my basement is something I should get around to at some point. \ 747) <tswett> ais523: well, Dylan said "hahaha, Lawlabee is running windows", and then Lawlabee s
22:36:57 <FireFly> Apparently his windows box is pretty well-known
22:39:46 <Sgeo> elliott, do you wish to be removed from the list or remain on the list?
22:40:07 <oerjan> `run sed -i '70s/ *[[]/ [/' quotes # i think this is the most logical
22:40:14 <shachaf> Bike: do you wish to be removed from the list or remain on the list?
22:40:15 <HackEgo> 70) [Warrigal] `addquote <Dylan> hahaha, Lawlabee is running windows <Lawlabee> 'cuz it's pretty awesome. [Lawlabee] Warrigal: :(
22:40:18 <shachaf> Fiora: do you wish to be removed from the list or remain on the list?
22:40:22 <shachaf> monqy: do you wish to be removed from the list or remain on the list?
22:41:15 <hagb4rd> should we add a limit of character as convention for the quotes? or do we have one? if so, it'd be nice when hackego would give a warning about this or sth. and some basic formatting (like trimming leading spaces) maybe could be implemented without much effort..
22:42:04 <Fiora> I like being on the list
22:42:25 <FireFly> It could break after the last (double-space-delimited) line that fits, and append […] if such a break happens
22:43:29 <hagb4rd> at least if oerjan doesn't mind if we steal his job ;)
22:44:39 <Fiora> olsner: sgeo pings people when there's homestuck updates
22:44:57 <FireFly> Which reminds me, maybe I should start reading homestuck
22:45:00 <olsner> you should write a hackego command for doing that
22:45:29 <olsner> or perhaps all of you should just subscribe to the RSS feed
22:45:43 <Fiora> FireFly: you should
22:45:55 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.5404
22:46:15 <olsner> I'm still in all of them :(
22:46:29 <olsner> someone else get quoted saying django please
22:46:45 <HackEgo> 321) <monqy> `quote django <HackEgo> 352) <olsner> django is named after a person? <olsner> thought it would be a giraffe or something \ 407) <cpressey> `quote django <HackEgo> 352) <olsner> django is named after a person? <olsner> thought it would be a giraffe or something <cpressey> thankfully only one <monqy> thankfully only two
22:46:54 * FireFly accidentally nickpings half the channel
22:47:36 <FireFly> olsner: it's tempting to addquote that line
22:48:10 <elliott> `addquote <oerjan> `pastequotes django <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.5404 <olsner> I'm still in all of them :( <olsner> someone else get quoted saying django please
22:48:14 <HackEgo> 911) <oerjan> `pastequotes django <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.5404 <olsner> I'm still in all of them :( <olsner> someone else get quoted saying django please
22:50:52 <FireFly> The second expansion of "HTH"
22:51:38 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/bin/addquote
22:53:17 <hagb4rd> that's a hell of a script :P
22:56:41 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/bin/quote
22:58:42 <FireFly> Huh, neat, didn't know about `nl`
22:58:54 <hagb4rd> i can write a script a script as proposal if you like. (not changing the way things are stored, but just doing the very basic clean job/control functions)
22:59:23 <hagb4rd> you can decide if you like it then
23:01:05 <hagb4rd> oerjan or who ever feels responsable: do we need a limit of characters per quote?
23:06:04 <FireFly> Bike: a roped-off enclosure where medieval knights jousted.
23:06:05 <hagb4rd> *responsible ("in charge" also is great :)
23:06:59 <FireFly> Oh, that's apparently "the lists", in plural.
23:12:49 -!- GreyKnight has joined.
23:13:16 <GreyKnight> <hagb4rd> Gregor: one more thing: would you mind to install mono on that sandbox? <-- in theory you could do it yourself you know :-)
23:13:16 <lambdabot> GreyKnight: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
23:15:42 <impomatic> I've just noticed Netcetera have removed all the binary downloads from my website :-(
23:15:43 <hagb4rd> greyknight: no i didn't know. i mean: i don't know if i'm allowed to do so, since even my wisdom entries got deleted
23:16:28 <GreyKnight> oh people delete quotes and wisdom all the time :-)
23:16:42 <hagb4rd> Gregor: am i allowed to install mono?
23:16:52 <GreyKnight> "it's easier to ask forgiveness than permission"
23:16:56 <HackEgo> bin \ canary \ egobot.tar.xz \ etc \ factor \ factor-linux-x86-64-0.95.tar.gz \ foo \ foo.err \ foo.out \ gktemp \ ibin \ index.html \ interps \ karma \ lib \ luabuild \ paste \ quotes \ quotese \ run \ share \ test \ wisdom \ zalgo.hs
23:17:33 <FireFly> I mean, it's meant to be sandboxed anyway..
23:17:53 <FireFly> Speaking of which, what was the reason for the crash a few days ago?
23:18:39 <elliott> hagb4rd: not quite sure how a 4-lin escript counts as unrefactorable by any definition...
23:19:15 <GreyKnight> fizzie: I use AndroIRC, although I haven't tried the SSL thing. General experience: "It's okay."
23:20:03 <GreyKnight> Dear elliott, please recompile your sense of humour. All my love, GreyKnight xoxo
23:20:21 <HackEgo> import Random;main=mapM_((>>(י=<<randomRIO('̀','ͯ'))).י)=<<getContents;י=putChar
23:20:21 <hagb4rd> elliott: it's that i expected sth horrible, not that cute sober 4 lines of pure code
23:20:39 <oerjan> <GreyKnight> I guess you need a concept of "variables" at least <-- i think unlambda manages to have functions first-class and characters second-class without having variables
23:20:59 <HackEgo> Warning: ignoring unrecognised input `zalgo.hs Test' \ \ zalgo.hs Test:1:33: \ Not in scope: `main' \ Perhaps you meant `min' (imported from Prelude)
23:21:43 <GreyKnight> I was out walking in the rain so my typing may have been slightly erratic
23:22:09 <olsner> FreeFull: lambdabot has haskell
23:22:10 <HackEgo> \ zalgo.hs:1:8: \ Could not find module `Random' \ It is a member of the hidden package `haskell98-2.0.0.2'. \ Use -v to see a list of the files searched for.
23:22:27 <HackEgo> import Random;main=mapM_((>>(י=<<randomRIO('̀','ͯ'))).י)=<<getContents;י=putChar
23:23:25 <GreyKnight> <elliott> for all the whining that entry has been there for over a year <-- now if only anybody had known where it was
23:23:47 <GreyKnight> `run ln -s wisdom/qdbformat "wisdom/quote formatting"
23:23:50 <HackEgo> ln: accessing `wisdom/quote formatting': Not a directory
23:24:33 <hagb4rd> `run ln -s wisdom/qdbformat wisdom/"quote formatting"
23:24:35 <HackEgo> ln: accessing `wisdom/quote formatting': Not a directory
23:24:54 <GreyKnight> Anyway at least we can all agree that 188 is best quote
23:25:07 <HackEgo> 188) <zzo38> Maybe they should just get rid of Minecraft. If more people want it someone can make using GNU GPL v3 or later version, with different people, might improve slightly.
23:26:36 <nooodl_> i'm gonna guess a quote number and hope it's the best one
23:26:43 <HackEgo> 132) * Phantom_Hoover sticks crayons in his nose
23:27:39 <HackEgo> 99) <oklopol> you move on the tape and shit
23:27:41 <FireFly> Cue rainbows pouring out of Phantom_Hoover's nose
23:27:45 <Bike> this isn't going well
23:28:04 <GreyKnight> Meanwhile, oklopol is relieving himself on a tape
23:28:06 <HackEgo> 37) <Dylan> actually, I pretended to be a hobo to get directions
23:28:28 <nooodl_> i like "you move on the tape and shit"
23:28:40 <HackEgo> 444) <pikhq> I actually had a Neopets account. I later gained a second digit in my age.
23:29:20 <HackEgo> 643) <oklopol> the point of a university is research and training new researchers. the point of the world is to enable this.
23:29:34 <HackEgo> 1) <Aftran> I used computational linguistics to kill her.
23:29:41 <FireFly> `run quote 777 # this can't go wrong, can it?
23:29:43 <HackEgo> 777) <itidus21> you are like the linux torvalds of quiz engines
23:29:44 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: quoerjandom: not found
23:29:45 <Bike> i wonder if the world has been informed of this relationship
23:30:10 <nooodl_> is there an online quote database or something
23:30:24 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/quotes
23:30:49 <GreyKnight> `run quote $(echo $((RANDOM % $(cat quotes | wc -l))))
23:30:51 <HackEgo> 858) <elliott> I kept telling my therapist I wanted more conventional, non-hip-hop-oriented treatment, but it was no use. my shrinkwrapped. <elliott> okay i hate myself for making a pun that bad <elliott> please kill me <elliott> :(
23:31:03 <FireFly> did you just reinvent `quote?
23:31:06 <shachaf> GreyKnight: Very useful one liner you've got there.
23:31:07 <Bike> isn't that basically what `quote does
23:31:09 <HackEgo> 797) <itidus21> elliott___: we have been calling a book new for 2000 years and it took einstein to figure out relativity
23:31:23 <Bike> itidus21: what
23:31:55 <GreyKnight> FireFly: not only that: I reinvented quote in terms of itsemf
23:32:26 <Bike> metacircular quotation!
23:32:34 <shachaf> `run quote $(quote | sed 's/\).*//')
23:32:36 <HackEgo> sed: -e expression #1, char 8: Unmatched ) or \) \ 714) <olsner> what a world it would be if you could actually *steal* code so that the other project has to rewrite it or infiltrate your project to steal it back
23:32:51 <shachaf> `run quote $(quote | sed 's/).*//')
23:32:53 <HackEgo> 59) * oerjan swats FireFly since he's easier to hit -----### <FireFly> Meh * FireFly dies
23:33:14 <GreyKnight> olsner: sort of related: http://www.bash.org/?104052
23:33:20 * FireFly swats oerjan for swatting him ------###
23:33:36 <oerjan> now _that_ was unexpected.
23:34:17 <GreyKnight> RE: earlier talk of how many sprunge.us identifiers there are: they have both cases of letters, so the total available 4-character identifiers would be:
23:34:18 <HackEgo> 1) <Aftran> I used computational linguistics to kill her. \ 62) <fungot> ehird: every set can be well-ordered. corollary: every set s has the same diagram used from famous program talisman with fnord windows to cascade, someone i would never capitalize " i" \ 64) <oklofok> i use dynamic indentation, i indent lines k times, if they are used O(n^k) t
23:34:59 <Bike> i like 62, let's use 62
23:35:02 <GreyKnight> (IMAO it would be better to not have 0 and O both valid characters, mind you)
23:35:13 <olsner> hmm, did any of those quotes contain the word sed?
23:35:28 <FireFly> They contain the substring sed
23:35:32 <Bike> `quote " sed "
23:36:03 <GreyKnight> oh "used" in the other two as well actually
23:36:04 <kmc> is a sprunge like a funge?
23:36:06 <FreeFull> `run quote $(quote | sed 's/).*//')
23:36:08 <HackEgo> 577) <CakeProphet> l;le;ler;le;lr;e;ler;ler;le;lerr;le;le;erle;e;rler;lere;er;lerrelrrerererlanggt
23:36:11 <FireFly> Dynamic indentation is best indentation
23:37:13 <FireFly> I wonder if CakeProphet got rid of the dirt on his keys
23:37:41 <HackEgo> Quotes are just elements of the quantum dilapidated bogosphere. See qdb.
23:38:53 <GreyKnight> It's late, I'm cold and wet (and tired)
23:39:57 <kmc> `quote sprunge
23:39:59 <HackEgo> 236) <Gregor> !bfjoust furry_furry_strapon_pegging_girls http://sprunge.us/eKWa * Sgeo had no idea that Gregor was hetero
23:40:32 <FireFly> You and your bfjoust knight names
23:40:43 <HackEgo> 225) <Vorpal> !bfjoust test (-)*10000 <EgoBot> Score for Vorpal_test: 12.9 <Vorpal> yay \ 226) <Vorpal> !bfjoust test (++-)*1000000 <Vorpal> probably will suck <EgoBot> Score for Vorpal_test: 30.4 <Vorpal> what \ 234) <Deewiant> !bfjoust sm3 < <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_sm3: 43.4 \ 236) <Gregor> !bfjoust furry_furry_strapon_pegging_girls htt
23:40:58 <HackEgo> Quotes are just elements of the quantum dilapidated bogosphere. See qdb.
23:42:49 * Sgeo has breached 2k worthless Internet points
23:42:52 <FireFly> The only game it could possibly win is against another copy of itself, if the other program goes first, as far as I can tell
23:42:57 <ais523> FireFly: bug in the hill
23:43:06 <ais523> it basically muddled wins with losses
23:43:17 <Sgeo> Calling them "worthless Internet points" totally disguises being actually interested in them
23:43:53 * FireFly concludes that worthless Internet points are millilambdabotkarmas
23:44:06 <ais523> my favourite thing about @karma is just how it triggers on random ++ and -- comments
23:44:16 <ais523> thus, why C is doing so well
23:44:36 <elliott> C has always been special-cased.
23:45:04 <Sgeo> Add 1 to karma giving karma
23:45:56 -!- GreyKnight has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
23:46:40 <Sgeo> Hmm, does the special-casing work on C-- too or just C++?
23:46:54 <Sgeo> I'm scared to try it, don't know if it's reversible
23:47:19 <FireFly> Hmm, I can't think of any common sequence ending with --
23:47:39 <Bike> haskell lack-of-comments?
23:48:05 <kmc> some style guides state that there should be no space between a word and an em dash
23:48:27 <FireFly> would you keep the whitespace after the dashes then?
23:48:32 <kmc> but this convention is rarely followed when using '--' to represent an em dash
23:49:12 * shachaf doesn't like that style guide.
23:50:16 -!- GreyKnight has joined.
23:50:58 <HackEgo> 71) Note that quote number 124 is not actually true.
23:51:13 <HackEgo> 124) <Sgeo> Why shouldn't I just do everything in non-Microsoft-specific C#? <ais523> it's like trying to write non-IE-specific JavaScript with only Microsoft documentation and only IE to test on
23:51:21 <kmc> shachaf: djb doesn't like the RDRAND instruction
23:51:28 <kmc> he says that an application should only get entropy from the operating system
23:51:32 <kmc> i'm not sure why though
23:51:58 * GreyKnight intends to delete quote 71 without one objection
23:54:46 <GreyKnight> elliott: You like the idea of deleting the quote? Or the quote itself?
23:54:58 * GreyKnight continues his merciless crusade against pronouns
23:54:58 <kmc> it's sad, because C# is actually a pretty nice language
23:56:04 <elliott> kmc: pascal tends to be a more mathematical programming language from my experience. haskell discards a lot of mathematical concepts by denying volatile types
23:56:29 <shachaf> "elliott aka worst of #haskell"
23:56:39 <olsner> 71 doesn't follow the quote laws
23:56:49 <elliott> kmc: it takes weeks to months for somebody to learn using monads
23:56:55 <elliott> kmc: i watched over 3 hours of monad lessons and i still cant tell a monad from a yumad
23:57:09 <Bike> y'all are awfully mean to one another
23:57:29 <olsner> it's hard to be nice when you hate everyone
23:57:47 <HackEgo> 907) <ais523> btw, I finally discovered what a burrito was, recently <ais523> they're kind of nice to eat <ais523> but don't really resemble monads
23:57:56 <shachaf> kmc: Lots of people seem to say C# is a nice language.
23:58:00 <elliott> GreyKnight: If we try hard enough we can make this place worse than #haskell and kmc will leave.
23:58:43 <kmc> elliott: what
23:58:50 <shachaf> elliott: I'd rather you don't do that.
23:59:05 <kmc> is that an actual #haskell quote
23:59:45 <shachaf> I think this person might be a troll.