< 1359849730 865042 :carado!~user4539@2a01:e35:8b61:e430:6ef0:49ff:fe73:1fd0 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1359849922 861667 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :^show list < 1359849923 47280 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo alot)S < 1359849938 977181 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :^def list ul (Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot)S < 1359849939 162797 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Defined. < 1359849959 668714 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who is ThatOtherPerson? < 1359849965 636887 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: needs saving hth < 1359849975 858406 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :^save < 1359849987 200368 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no? < 1359849991 758169 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1359849995 66304 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do not think that command responds to anyone but fizzie < 1359850198 862048 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi fungot < 1359850199 75879 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: he is so silly! < 1359850214 902307 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: me or you? < 1359850215 391440 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: for a while it was frustrating. most of john's dad, who broke a huge wizard is. you don't like is my mother's obsession with clocks. the sooner all these idiots stop being alive the better of you. < 1359850226 654921 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1359850226 840580 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck* ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube < 1359850240 337516 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style fungot < 1359850240 523271 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: fungot (What I've said myself) < 1359850248 463859 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: hi < 1359850248 852427 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: is that something you know and and the cases that required to actually mutate the original ( sorted, perhaps, it may be said that particularly here, parliament will give a single instance, < 1359850532 873183 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mr. President, I think fungot is mixing metaphors again < 1359850533 199105 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ( that is, levinson went to kish, disappeared, had on your behalf of the commission is not allowed to use the crane, enter any two of these letters, a b y. every night, brings a new world of good! i was your problem? maybe you just can't handle is designed" if continuations are not unmodular in the same < 1359851218 985331 :Taneb!~nathan@92.23.131.156 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1359852155 611663 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh hey someone wrong my mamb for Scala years ago < 1359852162 5228 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/urso/embeddedmonads < 1359852185 966674 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Was that supposed to be "wrote"? < 1359852205 780655 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, yes it was < 1359852315 536128 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you considered writing a library called Mambo? < 1359854333 469363 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1359854364 722400 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1359854539 590656 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :^save < 1359854539 815803 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. < 1359854894 567427 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay! < 1359854916 17042 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION didn't really think fizzie was around < 1359854938 173242 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have been playing a game, is why. < 1359854957 416436 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd also been idle for over a day < 1359855015 583019 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, but I've been checking the channel every few hours, all sneaky-stealth-like. < 1359855037 316770 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(IRC should have some kind of attention notification protocol, perhaps?) < 1359855081 464797 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :IM things have that "user is typing" indicator, but even they don't generally (AFAIK) have a "user is looking" indicator. < 1359855157 437512 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :we've been thinking about that a lot for the business communication tool we're building < 1359855340 898688 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it works as realtime chat, but (unlike say IRC) it strongly encourages you to read every message < 1359855356 804526 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incorporating eye-tracking technology sound like the obvious way to go about it, of course. < 1359855358 613452 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that it can also take the place of asynchronous things like email < 1359855395 961489 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we kind of want to deliberately avoid a 'user is around right now' notification, because it would discourage people from using it in that second way < 1359855415 65321 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the other hand it's something people really really want < 1359855442 549973 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :xmpp's combo of away statuses and typing notifications seems fine to me < 1359855481 983832 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Beating the users until they stop wanting things you don't want them to want seems fine to me. < 1359855613 572477 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in the limit you end up with something nobody wants < 1359855628 84730 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : we've been thinking about that a lot for the business communication tool we're building <-- as long as it is better than Samtime in the god awful Lotus Notes... < 1359855640 691929 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the limit you work somewhere else, i thought < 1359855686 985890 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's Samtime like < 1359855690 973942 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: well ok < 1359855701 601973 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, well I guess it actually isn't the worst part of notes < 1359855731 147236 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, of course it suffers the general problems with confusing UI of notes that means you have no idea where to find the setting you want. < 1359855769 626812 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, oh and I have no idea how to change spell check language in it. It seems stuck to English, while the rest of Notes is stuck to Swedish < 1359855788 513451 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, anyway it is an IM system integrated into Notes < 1359855792 139016 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :use it at work < 1359855803 840537 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :does show the away status < 1359855897 659784 :Nisstyre-laptop!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1359855997 152963 :Nisstyre-laptop!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre JOIN :#esoteric < 1359856155 641766 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1359856161 508405 :DH____!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 JOIN :#esoteric < 1359856873 282714 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/Python/comments/17rfh7/warning_dont_use_pip_in_an_untrusted_network_a/ < 1359856882 715101 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay people are finally talking about these problems < 1359856932 234853 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It's a bit worse than that." security sure is a fun field < 1359857083 472687 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, the default python HTTP libraries make it basically impossible to check SSL certs < 1359857087 919055 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :who would ever want to do that right < 1359857102 728020 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Python: explosive, acid-leaking batteries included < 1359857111 296266 :Nisstyre-laptop!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1359857858 994115 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would x + y = y + x be a valid last pattern match, so that all cases where x is specific also apply to where y is specific instead? < 1359857870 204106 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1359857879 846348 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i see what you mean < 1359857951 738802 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, you can do things that way, but I remember concluding that it's not worthwhile < 1359857959 245548 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Say I have (x,True) + (y,False) = something and then don't want to write the case for (x,False) + (y,True) = something < 1359857979 17774 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :one problem is that if you forget a case, there's no compiler warning and you get an infinite loop at runtime < 1359858042 571979 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that's what I was thinking < 1359858085 517936 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm making silly Num instances =P < 1359858099 584056 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :instance Num ([()],Boolean) < 1359858108 626491 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is silly < 1359858123 95196 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Boolean is the sign, the list is the magnitude < 1359858124 241693 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should introduce a new constructor rather than using (,) < 1359858129 152746 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in the length < 1359858133 77744 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise it will overlap with other (,) instances < 1359858155 268154 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking of making a new constructor, but was lazy =P < 1359858162 631179 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, I will < 1359858219 674285 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :also if you want to be sillier, use Fix Maybe < 1359858227 718921 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :data SillyNum = Positive [()] | Negative [()] < 1359858229 529131 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of [()] < 1359858241 339119 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t Fix Maybe < 1359858244 38075 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: data constructor `Fix' < 1359858244 223573 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: data constructor `Maybe' < 1359858252 229478 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric ::k Fix < 1359858253 695798 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: type constructor or class `Fix' < 1359858255 194259 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric ::k Mu < 1359858256 831112 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(* -> *) -> * < 1359858258 989487 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok lambdabot calls it Mu < 1359858263 415462 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :why < 1359858265 138225 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src Mu < 1359858265 324161 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :newtype Mu f = In { out :: f (Mu f) } < 1359858276 562582 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :because μ is used for least fixed points in maths sometimes < 1359858286 674742 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :> In (Just (In Nothing)) < 1359858288 462730 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : In (Just (In Nothing)) < 1359858299 686860 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is Fix Maybe a chain of justs that possibly ends in Nothing < 1359858308 127106 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1359858325 723655 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mu Maybe ≈ Maybe (Mu Maybe) < 1359858336 506634 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :where by ≈ i mean "isomorphic to" < 1359858342 554658 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Fix a = a (Fix a) ??? < 1359858355 198943 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : newtype Mu f = In { out :: f (Mu f) } < 1359858365 237687 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1359858369 195330 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need a value constructor < 1359858380 105168 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I see < 1359858387 580389 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :also you need to use 'newtype' if you want it to be an actual isomorphism < 1359858394 785094 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise ⊥ ≠ In ⊥ < 1359858404 261226 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so each level of recursion has one more "value" < 1359858423 553665 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wrote some stuff about this stuff here http://mainisusuallyafunction.blogspot.com/2010/12/type-level-fix-and-generic-folds.html < 1359858495 633994 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, so it's the same recursive-functions-are-actually-fixedpoints thing as with, uh, functions. < 1359858502 433534 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1359858509 228142 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'll use [()] for now < 1359858546 349449 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :[()] means you can use list functions for arithmetic... < 1359858556 398767 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how the definition of fix there relies on recursion < 1359858589 224087 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well in a statically typed language, you can't write fix unless you are already given some kind of recursion construct < 1359858598 781777 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> const id <$> [(),(),()] <*> [(),()] < 1359858600 677179 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [(),(),(),(),(),()] < 1359858629 141015 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1359858636 781541 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> [(),(),()] *> [(),()] < 1359858638 952514 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [(),(),(),(),(),()] < 1359858650 646755 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Need to consider negative values too =P < 1359858669 320730 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :> replicate 3 [()] >> replicate 5 [()] < 1359858671 49361 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [[()],[()],[()],[()],[()],[()],[()],[()],[()],[()],[()],[()],[()],[()],[()]] < 1359858675 729916 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :though in Haskell there are various accidental "recursion constructs" you can use < 1359858678 674903 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://okmij.org/ftp/Haskell/types.html#fix < 1359858683 745775 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :> replicate 3 [()] >> replicate 5 [()] >>= id < 1359858685 138273 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),()] < 1359858702 938629 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, duh < 1359858706 366485 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :> replicate 3 () >> replicate 5 () < 1359858707 837728 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),()] < 1359858731 167516 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway if you have a simple typed lambda calculus, you can't write fix < 1359858749 692852 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :note that its type, (a -> a) -> a, is unsound as a logical proposition < 1359858779 409062 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> sequence_ $ [(),(),()] <$ [(),()] < 1359858781 488289 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),()] < 1359858790 660646 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :once you allow arbitrary recursion, your programs are no longer really proofs, because they can loop forever instead of yielding a value of their declared type < 1359858822 697552 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Somehow I can't see {-# RULES forall m n. length (replicate m () *> replicate n ()) = m * n #-} becoming a thing < 1359858839 912685 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you don't allow arbitrary recursion, your programs aren't turing-complete < 1359858841 161109 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (mapM_ . const) [(),(),()] [(),()] < 1359858844 4224 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),()] < 1359858884 752892 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@let voided n = replicate n () < 1359858886 942953 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Defined. < 1359858890 532226 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :> void [1..] > voided 5 < 1359858893 675010 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : True < 1359858896 933045 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: Wouldn't that give a different result for negative values of m and n < 1359858947 239348 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (compare `on` void) (1:2:3:4:5:undefined) [10,20,30] < 1359858949 442402 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : GT < 1359858965 956441 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t on < 1359858967 253498 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(b -> b -> c) -> (a -> b) -> a -> a -> c < 1359858993 415933 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :> null . < 1359858995 118691 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : :1:7: parse error (possibly incorrect indentation) < 1359859001 842257 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t null .: void < 1359859003 128851 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `[a0]' with actual type `()' < 1359859003 314427 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Expected type: g0 a1 -> g0 [a0] < 1359859003 314608 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Actual type: g0 a1 -> g0 () < 1359859029 495133 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love expressive type systems < 1359859046 942796 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t null < 1359859048 300906 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :[a] -> Bool < 1359859062 529308 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (null .) < 1359859063 970220 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (GHC.Show.Show (f0 [a0] -> f0 GHC.Types.Bool)) < 1359859064 170577 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising f... < 1359859083 309614 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (null .) < 1359859084 858995 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Functor f => f [a] -> f Bool < 1359859099 682076 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: i know all that much at least, you don't need to tell me again :P < 1359859151 352505 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :but do you know the type newtype T = T (T -> T)!! < 1359859163 372337 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, lambdabot does the (.) = fmap thing < 1359859203 542191 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: T id < 1359859204 461195 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%CE%9C-recursive_function you only need search!!! < 1359859304 665160 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: ok < 1359859320 887231 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's hard to remember what people know and don't know < 1359859334 155762 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose < 1359859338 801692 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing wrong with talking it through again < 1359859367 461326 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Back to my num instance < 1359859546 488084 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, i had this idea that cata(morphism) was actually reasonably widespread in haskell world < 1359859600 247624 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :more of an agda thing maybe? < 1359859616 510562 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1359859693 120711 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I shouldn't have used separate constructors for positive and negative < 1359859700 110592 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's bloating my num instnace < 1359859839 432452 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Sign = Negative | Zero | Positive deriving Show data SillyNum = SillyNum Sign [()] deriving Show this might be better, probably should derive more instances but whatever < 1359859854 128217 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what's this all for < 1359859871 426671 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sillyness < 1359859908 82965 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, screw Sign, I'll just use Integer or something < 1359859968 859865 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll make my own Num instance, with blackjack and hookers < 1359860133 556120 :DH____!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1359860640 986650 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :data SillyNum = SillyNum Integer [()] deriving Show < 1359860651 104760 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :instance Num SillyNum where { fromInteger x = SillyNum (signum x) (genericReplicate (abs x) ()); negate (SillyNum x y) = SillyNum (-x) y; abs (SillyNum x y) = SillyNum (abs x) y; signum (SillyNum x _) = SillyNum x [()]; (SillyNum x a) + (SillyNum y b) = fromInteger (x * genericLength a + y * genericLength b); (SillyNum x a) * (SillyNum y b) = SillyNum (x*y) (a >> b) < 1359860686 159046 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :} < 1359860733 573797 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (>>) < 1359860735 708273 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Monad m => m a -> m b -> m b < 1359860736 525517 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Appears to work < 1359860781 592827 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: Same as *> but for monads < 1359861105 475070 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :What happens when you call length on a list larger than maxBound :: Int < 1359861135 71925 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assuming you wait for it to actually finish < 1359861155 475350 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> length ([1.. (fromIntegral (maxBound :: Int) + 1)]) < 1359861159 142119 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :You realize that you need to buy a 64-bit CPU < 1359861159 327607 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval-core: Time limit exceeded < 1359861178 906398 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: I think the semantics are not defined by the standard < 1359861183 464378 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> length ([1.. (fromIntegral (maxBound :: Int))]) < 1359861187 472310 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval-core: Time limit exceeded < 1359861192 585824 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let me look up the standard implementation of length < 1359861195 577377 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :in practice it will depend on how length is implemented and how Int overflow works on your Haskell implementation < 1359861201 654388 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :length [] = 0 < 1359861201 994463 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :length (_:l) = 1 + length l < 1359861204 788640 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :from the report < 1359861217 113184 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that will pretty directly depend on what (+) :: Int -> Int -> Int does < 1359861226 25446 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 1 + (maxBound::Int) < 1359861227 753042 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are there laws for (+) < 1359861228 408316 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : -9223372036854775808 < 1359861233 125457 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice! < 1359861247 658056 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: if there are any laws for numbers, they are almost certainly violated by Double ;P < 1359861252 621497 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean equality is not even reflexive < 1359861279 26233 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since there are no laws, length can return anything on a non-null list < 1359861283 976650 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, i do wonder about that sometimes. like should you have * work on both integers and matrices even though they have different properties. how do you fit this into a type system that makes any sense at all. < 1359861294 800950 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :CHECKMATE < 1359861300 957934 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: i think the semantics of Int specifically are specified within the range [-2^29..2^29-1] < 1359861301 501888 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you'll eventually end up with a negative value for length :D < 1359861318 471870 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's possible to get a list large enough that length will say it's length is 0 < 1359861319 480343 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let n :: Double; n = read "NaN" in n == n < 1359861321 95300 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : False < 1359861329 690169 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :good representation < 1359861333 640585 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :int overflows are a grave security concern in C < 1359861349 780476 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :lotta code will do like buf = malloc(n * sizeof(foo)) < 1359861362 249679 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha oops < 1359861364 302555 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if that multiplication overflows, you allocate less memory than you expect < 1359861387 514085 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Should I be surprised Haskell has adopted the NaN /= NaN thing? < 1359861388 474529 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :sscanf(buf, "%d", &n) < 1359861410 813800 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :I shouldn't < 1359861412 526404 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't it just using ieee like everyone else in the universe? < 1359861416 803470 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Makes sense for ieee < 1359861422 228903 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :except ps2 gpus maybe < 1359861438 875708 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :In other words calloc is more secure than malloc??? < 1359861454 298542 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then < 1359861455 822704 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: how's that < 1359861458 583010 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :> Nothing == Nothing < 1359861460 768840 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : True < 1359861472 566476 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :calloc(n, sz) < 1359861481 675547 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes < 1359861491 136480 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :does the haskell report specify that floating point is IEEE754? < 1359861494 296147 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: what's the relevance < 1359861502 156007 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :> isIEEE (undefined :: Float) < 1359861503 673492 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : True < 1359861510 172509 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay so it's not spec'd but you get a runtime check < 1359861536 983661 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Double should be an algebraic type < 1359861551 93914 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :> isIEEE (3 :: Real) < 1359861551 781710 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and NaN /= NaN does make sense, it's just unfortunate < 1359861553 226674 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Expecting one more argument to `GHC.Real.Real' < 1359861601 126530 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: unfortunate? < 1359861614 170040 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric ::k Real < 1359861616 301890 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :NaN is almost like ⊥ -- it means you have no information about the "actual" result < 1359861616 487425 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :* -> Constraint < 1359861622 276385 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric ::k Constraint < 1359861623 986076 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :BOX < 1359861655 552674 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ow my brain < 1359861655 878706 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (Nothing == Nothing) :: Maybe Float < 1359861657 854364 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `Data.Maybe.Maybe GHC.Types.Float' < 1359861658 39733 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ... < 1359861672 110172 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (Nothing == (Nothing :: Maybe Float)) < 1359861672 470193 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, nan means "not representable" in addition to "doesn't make sense". gosh i'm bad with floats < 1359861674 261538 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : True < 1359861728 849897 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :however Infinity == Infinity which seems a little bit wrong < 1359861741 234588 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :because two numbers which are too big to represent might still be unequal < 1359861753 160654 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (1/0) == (2/0) < 1359861753 655976 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't no information about the actual result undefined < 1359861755 268451 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : True < 1359861762 396517 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :positive infinity, infinity on the pi/4 vector, what's the diff < 1359861773 80814 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Multiply both sides by 0, 1 == 2 < 1359861787 796173 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: yeah, most systems allow configuring the floating point unit to treat NaN as an exception < 1359861794 486169 :constant!root@freebsd/developer/variable NICK :function < 1359861796 866148 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :though iirc it's pretty nasty with GHC haskell < 1359861807 140220 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :because this FPU state is not saved by the green-thread scheduler < 1359861813 864076 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 2.0^10000 == 2.0^20000 < 1359861815 300453 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : True < 1359861854 239343 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do most programming languages have mediocre type systems ): < 1359861863 693205 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :any attempt to represent real numbers in a computer is doomed to incoherence < 1359861878 20033 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: most things are bad < 1359861878 693182 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also it's weird to blame type systems for reals being weird. < 1359861880 464880 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are always the unreal computers < 1359861899 863178 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :many explanations are offered but I prefer to think that success is simply random, and most things people try are bad < 1359861903 973002 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so most things that succeed are also bad < 1359861931 233725 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: Nah, I'm not < 1359861945 422038 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are only so many reals you can represent in a limited space < 1359861969 941513 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are only so many reals you can represent in countably infinite space < 1359861974 34529 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is to say almost none of them < 1359861985 570105 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lebesgue measure is so passé < 1359861990 970695 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, any real is countably infinite < 1359861992 969792 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :almost every real number contains an infinite amount of information < 1359862010 894782 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah it's true Jafet < 1359862015 107395 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was speaking imprecisely < 1359862021 989664 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Damn you cantor" < 1359862028 545982 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :however the problem of representing reals in a computer is more fundamental than the problem of representing integers < 1359862044 846825 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the latter is just about space whereas the former is about the fact that reals are crazy and fucked up < 1359862045 866658 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ya think? representing integers is a pretty neat problem too. < 1359862078 290261 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course you don't really have to think about it unless you're dealing with trillion-digit numbers, i guess. how boring < 1359862113 270110 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and not that reals aren't crazy and fucked up) < 1359862127 557963 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're lucky if your real is just transcendental, you can still approximate that with a rational < 1359862166 254218 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most reals can't be and all you can do is assign some symbol to it < 1359862199 382775 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :“eog or the Eye of GNOME is a simple graphics viewer for the GNOME desktop which uses the gdk-pixbuf library. It can deal with large images, and zoom and scroll with constant memory usage.” (eog:21228): GLib-ERROR **: /build/buildd/glib2.0-2.34.1/./glib/gmem.c:165: failed to allocate 18446744071773880320 bytes < 1359862217 565688 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh aren't most reals transcendental < 1359862237 994318 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :eog failed to open my 32768x32768 image < 1359862241 687374 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :gnome sucks < 1359862251 477193 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull, except for the ones that no string of symbols can be assigned to < 1359862257 124901 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is most of them < 1359862270 932979 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, hmm < 1359862276 585620 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not a good way to phrase that < 1359862287 303180 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can assign them. Omega = chaitin's constant on 2,3 machines. < 1359862296 346551 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's not what you mean. < 1359862302 673639 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Different meaning of symbol < 1359862304 680760 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No finite amount of symbols and description suffices to describe. < 1359862310 180745 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There you go. < 1359862329 725767 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also isn't the golden ratio algebraic or am I being dumb < 1359862350 255436 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chaitin's constant is described as the real number containing the probability of halting for 2,3 machines < 1359862350 562234 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: to describe as distinctive from other reals you mean < 1359862363 707898 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull, good point < 1359862367 532479 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because I could just say x is a real < 1359862371 12176 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: most numbers are undefinable too, though. < 1359862374 535343 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1359862381 982253 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those don't exist < 1359862391 69705 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Monster. < 1359862401 366677 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything exists. < 1359862414 377749 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :If all numbers are definable, how many numbers are between 0 and 1? < 1359862430 770035 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Existence is easy < 1359862434 79621 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, nevermind < 1359862436 333130 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Therefore: everything is easy) < 1359862437 782683 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: cardinality of the naturals duh < 1359862488 587923 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: also, the golden ratio is algebraic but all rational approximations of it suck (for reasonable definitions of suckage) < 1359862517 564314 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :How would you make a function that takes a floating value of Inf and makes it 1 using just arithmetic operations? < 1359862539 522033 :function!root@freebsd/developer/variable PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION returns 1 to FreeFull  < 1359862542 832239 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: Good enough < 1359862543 832601 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :f _ = 1 < 1359862560 748763 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: I didn't specify enough < 1359862569 834650 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, heh. < 1359862577 854111 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has to return 1 only for Inf and 1, for everything else it's id < 1359862615 927178 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No ifs? < 1359862617 126962 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm < 1359862624 344905 :Nisstyre-laptop!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre JOIN :#esoteric < 1359862629 151276 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :f n | n /= n = 1 | 1>0 = n < 1359862632 77175 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let f n | isInfinite n = 1; f n = n in (f 3, f (1/0)) < 1359862633 708668 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : (3.0,1.0) < 1359862635 671934 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not necessarily id < 1359862656 610828 :WeThePeople!~WeThePeop@unaffiliated/wethepeople JOIN :#esoteric < 1359862659 867623 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely guards count as ifs < 1359862663 36246 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not necessarily 1 for 1, but has to return different values for different inputs < 1359862664 251960 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let f n | (isInfinite n && (n > 0)) = 1; f n = n in (f 3, f (1/0), f (-1/0)) < 1359862665 729699 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : (3.0,1.0,-Infinity) < 1359862666 964001 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could probably say it has to be a composition of possibly partially applied arithmetic functions. < 1359862684 109199 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guards count as non-arithmetic operations here, and isInfinite does too < 1359862704 693787 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :NaN is non-arithmetic < 1359862710 520956 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or you could just get to your point instead of adding more and more constraints as kmc works around yours. < 1359862718 789761 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Non-arithmetic number < 1359862723 13901 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not really paying attention < 1359862726 249524 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ignore NaN < 1359862732 602624 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :just fuckin' around < 1359862735 72462 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the internet < 1359862737 189567 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :same thing < 1359862737 782643 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then what's Inf-Inf? < 1359862744 443937 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> Inf - Inf < 1359862746 53376 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's an arithmetic operation < 1359862746 611631 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: data constructor `Inf' < 1359862746 797233 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Perhaps you meant one of these: `In' ... < 1359862749 799735 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hth < 1359862770 965201 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let Inf = 1/0 in Inf - Inf < 1359862772 293584 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: data constructor `Inf' < 1359862772 479290 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Perhaps you meant one of these: `In' ... < 1359862782 679325 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let inf = 1/0 in inf - inf < 1359862784 247697 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : NaN < 1359862797 779428 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :There, it's bread < 1359862801 683190 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you want to take the utter crazy view that Inf-Inf = 0, in which case, (1+) . (`subtract` inf) < 1359862823 50625 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, let's see, on the riemann sphere such a function wouldn't be continuous so fuck it < 1359862825 624043 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think J does that or something < 1359862863 408220 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :smokin' a J < 1359862876 867157 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh it doesn't < 1359862878 946973 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :) _-_ < 1359862879 195863 :jconn!~username@la-pinta.la.net.ua PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: |NaN error < 1359862879 381230 :jconn!~username@la-pinta.la.net.ua PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: | _ -_ < 1359862892 634568 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :j's syntax is a thing of beauty < 1359862916 704592 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking there are functions that squish -Inf..Inf to -1..1 or some other range < 1359862940 837742 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :But wouldn't IEEE floats foil that without explicitly considering infs < 1359862975 877960 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wouldn't any non-infinite number get squished to, say, 0? < 1359862977 829633 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it wouldn't be injective < 1359863022 783917 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Not necessarily < 1359863036 956833 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: The closer the number is to 0, the less it'd get squished < 1359863051 966801 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrm < 1359863069 488427 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shouldn't say "arithmetic" operations. Makes me want to exclude logarithmic stuff < 1359863097 925270 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, include logarithmic and trigonometric stuff too then < 1359863105 198983 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Say, atan :) < 1359863105 569299 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since you're dealing with reals you could just say analytic functions. < 1359863109 320573 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :) $%97^3$@>.$(Po.uo.godeto.go4i$*%#@( < 1359863109 567513 :jconn!~username@la-pinta.la.net.ua PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: |spelling error < 1359863109 752714 :jconn!~username@la-pinta.la.net.ua PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: | $%97^3$@>.$(Po.uo.godeto.go4i$*%#@( < 1359863109 758760 :jconn!~username@la-pinta.la.net.ua PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: | ^ < 1359863119 48945 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :god kmc, check your spelling < 1359863123 541905 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :) $%97^3$@>.$( < 1359863123 796736 :jconn!~username@la-pinta.la.net.ua PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: |syntax error < 1359863123 982057 :jconn!~username@la-pinta.la.net.ua PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: | $%97^3$@>.$( < 1359863143 743442 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I don't know if there's a reasonable extension of the complex plane with two points at infinity. < 1359863182 401610 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :> atan (1/0) < 1359863183 873519 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1.5707963267948966 < 1359863193 75259 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Close enough < 1359863205 456743 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :) _3 o. 1%0 < 1359863205 691412 :jconn!~username@la-pinta.la.net.ua PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: 1.5708 < 1359863210 91403 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :> tan (atan (1/0)) < 1359863211 980239 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : can't find file: L.hs < 1359863219 71237 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :> tan (atan (1/0)) < 1359863220 891489 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1.633123935319537e16 < 1359863229 801210 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not close enough < 1359863237 829241 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :) 3o._3o._ < 1359863238 53439 :jconn!~username@la-pinta.la.net.ua PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: |ill-formed number < 1359863245 585364 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :) 3o._ 3o._ < 1359863245 807187 :jconn!~username@la-pinta.la.net.ua PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: |ill-formed number < 1359863255 78219 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :) 3o. _ _3o._ < 1359863255 347331 :jconn!~username@la-pinta.la.net.ua PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: |ill-formed number < 1359863262 634227 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :> tan (1/0) < 1359863263 788766 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :) 3o. _ (_3)o._ < 1359863264 9628 :jconn!~username@la-pinta.la.net.ua PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: |ill-formed number < 1359863264 195225 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : NaN < 1359863268 636013 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :) 3 o. _ (_3)o._ < 1359863268 867892 :jconn!~username@la-pinta.la.net.ua PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: |limit error < 1359863269 53572 :jconn!~username@la-pinta.la.net.ua PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: | 3 o._(_3)o._ < 1359863274 381393 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :) ꙮ < 1359863274 590341 :jconn!~username@la-pinta.la.net.ua PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: |spelling error < 1359863274 775455 :jconn!~username@la-pinta.la.net.ua PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: | ꙮ < 1359863274 775536 :jconn!~username@la-pinta.la.net.ua PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: | ^ < 1359863285 550612 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :) 'ꙮ' < 1359863285 783675 :jconn!~username@la-pinta.la.net.ua PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: ꙮ < 1359863286 252057 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there any value for which tan will actually produce Inf or -Inf < 1359863289 132984 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yesssss < 1359863291 964446 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :) fungot < 1359863292 151252 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: more simply put: siod sucks as a general purpose ( similar, and i'd like to see that mystical forest powers, but this time on the impact of the introduction to theoretical computer, fnord of the fnord here, so i don't < 1359863292 337081 :jconn!~username@la-pinta.la.net.ua PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: |value error: fungot < 1359863292 337252 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :jconn: and is one thing which you might want is broken" archives. even less chance. i called " o" in " the other side has that as their whole thing, i mean... < 1359863292 522729 :jconn!~username@la-pinta.la.net.ua PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: |spelling error < 1359863292 708965 :jconn!~username@la-pinta.la.net.ua PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: | and is one thing which you might want is broken" archives. even less chance. i called " o" in " the other side has that as their whole thing, i mean... < 1359863292 709216 :jconn!~username@la-pinta.la.net.ua PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: | ^ < 1359863292 709327 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :jconn: ( c) a player who makes further play impossible by eir actions or lack thereof, or < 1359863292 709436 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :jconn: to. why, this is for you guys are a lot < 1359863292 894503 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :jconn: to " print" statement should always remember the songs on p2p apps in scheme, besides, was not beyond normal credibility atheist. you cannot _read_ a procedure, but maybe i will when i start fixing it rather than having arbitrary bf is with a fnord struct, where the actual standard being sane) scheme implementations but guile is my fnord' doggie than a dozen tales, of the whole fnord range of the ' ' ' delete a value of < 1359863292 894667 :jconn!~username@la-pinta.la.net.ua PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: c (a player who makes further play impossible by eir actions or lack thereof , or) < 1359863298 53376 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :) 3:'x=.5' < 1359863300 427769 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH NO < 1359863304 258682 :jconn!~username@la-pinta.la.net.ua PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: | ^ < 1359863304 444194 :jconn!~username@la-pinta.la.net.ua PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: 3 < 1359863321 939890 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: do you mean in math or in some programming language < 1359863323 876961 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the bots have flood protection < 1359863327 491352 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or at least fungot does < 1359863327 676842 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull:, so i'd have to consider that although the reduction in actual transportation section from former friend lives, their door had my computer with full u+ support" then they both bowed low. just keep the safe or tub and emptied it < 1359863332 661130 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :) 13:'x=.5' < 1359863332 904943 :jconn!~username@la-pinta.la.net.ua PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: |spelling error < 1359863333 91183 :jconn!~username@la-pinta.la.net.ua PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: | 13:'x=.5' < 1359863333 91358 :jconn!~username@la-pinta.la.net.ua PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: | ^ < 1359863339 578182 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: Say, haskell < 1359863342 373486 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: fungot doesn't respond to the person so many times in a row < 1359863342 558865 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: use the ' ' ' delete a value of type " airbus is a big fan of avril....but this song " there < 1359863359 465518 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: so... what's Inf in haskell exactly < 1359863524 237390 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (\n -> 2/n - 4/(n+1) + 1) <$> [1, 1/0] < 1359863525 893270 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [1.0,1.0] < 1359863566 126375 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: Any value that produces True when fed to isInfinite < 1359863589 395139 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which means it has to be a RealFloat < 1359863603 157234 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So... why did you tell us to forget about nans. < 1359863633 300380 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull just wants a smooth compression algorithm on all reals+extended reals to the reals < 1359863636 409365 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't want you to care about what happens when nan is fed to your function < 1359863640 822727 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: Do you know a lot of things about subtyping? < 1359863645 662923 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should say them all. < 1359863649 776736 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know much about anything. < 1359863674 342743 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: What does Ada do about this? < 1359863903 774253 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (\n -> 1 - 1/(n+1)) <$> [0, 1, 2, 4, 8, 1/0] < 1359863905 401764 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [0.0,0.5,0.6666666666666667,0.8,0.8888888888888888,1.0] < 1359864200 473956 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 1/(1/0) < 1359864202 108052 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 0.0 < 1359864206 214307 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forgot that < 1359864208 508599 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you mean: beeeeeeeeees < 1359864230 781795 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION offers Jafet a hug prize < 1359864239 141756 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: well it depends on how these things are defined on infinities, i guess < 1359864299 356931 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet is a winner < 1359864372 391804 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (\x -> 1 - 1/(n+1)) <$> [0,(-0.000001)..] < 1359864374 134529 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [1 - 1 / (n + 1),1 - 1 / (n + 1),1 - 1 / (n + 1),1 - 1 / (n + 1),1 - 1 / (n... < 1359864381 927539 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hugs < 1359864382 113040 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hackage.haskell.org/trac/ghc/newticket?type=bug < 1359864388 57606 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (\n -> 1 - 1/(n+1)) <$> [0,(-0.000001)..] < 1359864389 670878 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [0.0,-1.000001000006634e-6,-2.0000039999690244e-6,-3.000009000109216e-6,-4.... < 1359864405 313270 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Gnite < 1359864426 751718 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: Behaves weirdly on negative values but fulfills my specification < 1359864449 704540 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (\n -> 1 - 1/(n+1)) -1/0 < 1359864452 142369 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (GHC.Real.Fractional (a0 -> a0)) < 1359864452 327904 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use of `... < 1359864461 255933 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1359864470 490084 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (\n -> 1 - 1/(n+1)) -1 < 1359864472 617162 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (GHC.Num.Num (a0 -> a0)) < 1359864472 802326 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use of `e_11111'... < 1359864480 974071 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (\n -> 1 - 1/(n+1)) 1 < 1359864483 511820 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 0.5 < 1359864487 986641 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (\n -> 1 - 1/(n+1)) (-1/0) < 1359864490 230876 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1.0 < 1359864524 875843 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (\n -> 1 - 1/(n+1)) -49 < 1359864526 503895 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (GHC.Num.Num (a0 -> a0)) < 1359864526 689280 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use of `e_111149... < 1359864529 593242 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (\n -> 1 - 1/(n+1)) (-49) < 1359864531 383280 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1.0208333333333333 < 1359864537 608187 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (\n -> 1 - 1/(n+1)) (-3) < 1359864539 235141 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1.5 < 1359864552 3631 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (\n -> 1 - 1/(n+1)) (-0.3) < 1359864553 472759 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : -0.4285714285714286 < 1359864559 369106 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (\n -> 1 - 1/(n+1)) (-0.5) < 1359864560 832416 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : -1.0 < 1359864564 922693 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (\n -> 1 - 1/(n+1)) (-0.6) < 1359864566 494505 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : -1.5 < 1359864632 71904 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's basically a shifted over 1/x < 1359864663 470205 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (\n -> 1 - 1/(n+1)) (-1) < 1359864665 445604 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : -Infinity < 1359864900 440420 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh crud I got a call yesterday and don't know who it was from < 1359864903 433753 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may have been asleep < 1359864917 265789 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could have been job related for all I know < 1359865026 920501 :c00kiemon5ter!~c00kiemon@foss-aueb/coder/c00kiemon5ter PART :#esoteric < 1359865040 232094 :c00kiemon5ter!~c00kiemon@foss-aueb/coder/c00kiemon5ter JOIN :#esoteric < 1359865041 956647 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could do something like (\n -> 1 / (1 + 2**(-n))) < 1359865051 179511 :Nisstyre-laptop!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1359865063 242906 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (\n -> 1 / (1 + 2**(-n))) (1/0) < 1359865065 191240 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1.0 < 1359865071 93202 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (\n -> 1 / (1 + 2**(-n))) (-1/0) < 1359865072 765470 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 0.0 < 1359865072 951372 :c00kiemon5ter!~c00kiemon@foss-aueb/coder/c00kiemon5ter PART :#esoteric < 1359865094 668716 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That just moves the pole to 4.something * i < 1359865204 158896 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pole? < 1359865242 900683 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: But we're only concerned with reals here < 1359865244 261549 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what pole? < 1359865256 561011 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh that pole < 1359865256 746254 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Where 2^-n = -1 and you get infinity again. < 1359865270 737982 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :The nazis moved millions of poles < 1359865284 369992 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Nazis were known real analysts. < 1359865562 591369 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Analyst? < 1359865572 89494 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :like real analysis. < 1359865604 891956 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric : don't google "intro to anal" < 1359865627 280824 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1359865655 513588 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :The advanced classes aren't much better < 1359866063 327815 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :research frontiers in anal < 1359866167 466762 :Mathnerd314!~quassel@128.135.223.221 JOIN :#esoteric < 1359867342 656633 :WeThePeople!~WeThePeop@unaffiliated/wethepeople QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1359867754 385690 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is my idea what a register in a hardware NSF might do, which the expansion byte in the NSF header is written to: < 1359867755 813388 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If bit2 is set, the memory from $8000-$DFFF becomes read/write (except main routine ROM which is always read-only), otherwise it is read-only. If bit0 is set, VRC6 audio will play, otherwise it will be muted. If bit1 is set, VRC7 audio will play and otherwise is muted. If bit5 is set, Sunsoft 5B audio is played and is otherwise muted. Other bits (bit3, bit4, bit6, and bit7) are ignored. < 1359867801 654357 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it is compatible with the .NSF specification, isn't it? < 1359868256 614118 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is something someone did to deter spambots on MediaWiki: http://wiki.nesdev.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:Nesdev_Wiki&action=edit They say it worked for sixteen months. Does it work for you? < 1359869465 828278 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1359869894 792648 :ThatOtherPerson!~ThatOther@unaffiliated/thatotherpersony PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I am. < 1359870100 192035 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are? < 1359870859 784360 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :how strange it is to be anything at all < 1359871052 121462 :ogrom!~del@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1359871085 428768 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, well......... < 1359871091 23238 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi zzo38 < 1359871097 242003 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you ever figure out my CodensityAsk thing? < 1359871124 302589 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Yes I think I do know what that one does. < 1359871163 778885 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh? What does it do? < 1359871187 399798 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it is difficult to explain but possible to understand. < 1359871293 913472 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(But it is a monad; (CodensityAsk w) is always a monad regardless of what w is.) < 1359872534 330988 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.O < 1359872537 641595 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/17rpkr/til_when_you_tell_someone_a_goal_or_thing_youre/ < 1359872542 552298 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have _got_ to stop doing that then < 1359872597 632882 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :chemically satisfies your brain < 1359872945 245903 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1359873003 530050 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1359873109 780224 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, I remember BYOND actually warned against doing that exact thing < 1359873128 47924 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Talking about what you're doing before you do it) < 1359873136 638989 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Make games for free with BYOND. Easy to learn, but powerful. Play online & multiplayer: RPGs, action, strategy, board games, and more!" < 1359873250 46501 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :For what it's worth, it does use a (custom) programming language. It's not some point and click nonsense < 1359873312 930574 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, is that actually what you meant? < 1359873337 525695 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't think game makers told you about your life choices... < 1359873527 328298 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Become a BYOND Member to add a game" < 1359873535 179667 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :....adding games to my hub is no longer free < 1359873536 591403 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sads < 1359873571 519233 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if there are video games in Ada. It must have graphics stuff for the gubmint, right < 1359874265 244945 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1359874525 427314 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1359874586 438510 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can look see if video game in Ada, or write one if you know how to program Ada < 1359874603 67080 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since you can use Ada with GNU compiler < 1359875816 200500 :ion!ion@heh.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1359875862 217561 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1359875995 234503 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://zzo38computer.org/img_14/uselessness_rpg.png It isn't very good, you cannot even make a attack which has a script on it, which is terrible. < 1359876009 959688 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Do you know a lot of things about subtyping? < 1359876032 513556 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Client Quit < 1359876046 226932 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1359876053 329123 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Client Quit < 1359876055 179802 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION guesses that Scala people would < 1359876069 652647 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scala people have their own problems. < 1359876092 433064 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such as? < 1359876161 528073 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why are you asking about subtyping? < 1359876168 212708 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because I want to figure it out. < 1359876194 791576 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's to figure out, you have a type and then you have a bigger type. And it makes everything less computable but whatever. < 1359876220 566760 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: If A is a subtype of B, which one is bigger? < 1359876231 409901 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :B < 1359876253 97611 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I have e.g. class Foo { A a; }; class Bar : Foo { B b; };, is Bar a subtype of Foo? < 1359876274 62115 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Such that you can give a Bar to a thing that wants a Foo.) < 1359876299 77809 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that's yet another usage of the term "polymorphism". < 1359876321 67268 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Polymorphism? < 1359876326 832275 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't say polymorphism. < 1359876343 458046 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You didn't, but what you described is subtype polymorphism. < 1359876359 572356 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is Bar a subtype of Foo? < 1359876375 294076 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1359876387 346191 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then I don't know what you mean by bigger. < 1359876398 536670 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I normally think "bigger" means "has more inhabitants". < 1359876399 327299 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"bigger" means "includes more possible values" < 1359876425 133658 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bar has more inhabitants thn Foo, though. < 1359876427 798255 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I have an object of type Foo (only) and an object of type Bar then I have two Foos and one Bar. < 1359876427 984199 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If A is a subtype of B, then B includes all the values in A, as well as potentially other values < 1359876430 346791 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that's not what Bike meant. < 1359876460 601558 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does Bar have more inhabitants? Every Bar is also a Foo, Foo can't have less inhabitants than Bar. < 1359876468 947044 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's say that (A,B) <: A < 1359876469 999576 :RodgerTheGreat!~rodger@71-13-216-83.dhcp.mrqt.mi.charter.com QUIT :Quit: RodgerTheGreat < 1359876477 652147 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Inhabitant does not mean "field" < 1359876480 347277 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(0,'a') :: (Int,Char) < 1359876483 374758 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(0,'b') :: (Int,Char) < 1359876489 296821 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :They both map to the same Foo < 1359876497 27255 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :For every Foo, I have |B| Bars. < 1359876549 80643 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're different Foos, even if code that expects a Foo treats them identically, I think. < 1359876561 850385 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah. < 1359876577 21038 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see your point, though. < 1359876581 786535 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So Bool has infinitely (uncountably?) many inhabitants? < 1359876596 527279 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What makes you say that? < 1359876607 11453 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Bool,Integer) <: Bool < 1359876615 592025 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tuples are Bools? < 1359876624 380561 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sighs. < 1359876642 88427 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike, the idea is that you subtype from Bool, to get a thing that acts like a Bool but has other properties < 1359876643 260999 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :class Hi { Bool x; }; -- Hi has infinitely many inhabitants? < 1359876643 595220 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess < 1359876703 257058 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I suppose at that point you have to clarify your notion of distinctness. "low-level" style extensional equality (I allocate Hi(true) twice and they're different) would mean infinitely many inhabitants. < 1359876735 505232 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not talking about pointer equality here. :-( < 1359876735 727644 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But looked at intensionally you're right, there are only two His, and a subtype could possibly have more distinctiveness. < 1359876746 73424 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. < 1359876761 384236 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think you can tell anything about |A| <=> |B| given A <: B < 1359876767 331474 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose the latter is more common in type theory but hey guess what I'm shit at type theory. < 1359876779 86405 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How often does type theory even use cardinalities? < 1359876802 202946 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should ask this question on #scala < 1359876804 165520 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who knows? < 1359876816 498363 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, to rephrase my original silly way of putting it. < 1359876858 391214 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather rethink. A subtype has more distinctiveness than its parent type, in that operations can be defined that act differently on objects of the subtype that are the same as far as operations on the parent type are concerned. < 1359876873 773185 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: Can I say that A <: Either A B? < 1359876918 692717 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :As I understand it Either is a functor that takes things away. In the same way Maybe Foo isn't just Foo plus nothing, it's made distinct. < 1359876941 67982 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, Either A B is a /disjoint/ sum of A and B, not a union. < 1359876956 383481 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1359876963 583582 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So every A maps to an Either A B < 1359876979 232433 :ion!ion@83.145.237.222 JOIN :#esoteric < 1359876979 417653 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, no you can't say A is a subtype of Either A B, is what I mean. < 1359876988 671819 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not? < 1359877038 442819 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because Either maps its two types to a distinct category from vanilla types. < 1359877065 91289 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :And (A,B) is distinct from vanilla A < 1359877073 240903 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1359877083 398908 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :We have an injection Left : a -> Either a b < 1359877106 390046 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure. < 1359877120 804876 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, what properties should a subtype have that this doesn't? < 1359877152 430382 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If A <: B then anywhere a B can be used an A works just as well, to put it coarsely. < 1359877171 167039 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is pretty obviously not true of A and Either, yeah? < 1359877185 518202 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why? < 1359877197 326182 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :If your function takes (Either A B), I can pass it my A. < 1359877207 548200 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A static typing system might prevent a direct use, but there's a simple transform you can do on the A to get Either A B < 1359877220 436666 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, really? I thought you couldn't do that in Haskell. < 1359877233 108754 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like you'd have to pass a Left A or something... < 1359877233 942031 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it won't be implicitly converted. < 1359877240 282977 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although, considering that the transform doesn't work the other way, maybe the fact that it doesn't work the other way excludes being able to call it a subtype? < 1359877240 980909 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's also true for (A,B) <: A < 1359877249 560502 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The point is that the relationship is there. < 1359877257 636843 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION isn't sure < 1359877259 505348 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(A,B) <: A isn't true either. < 1359877283 64429 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: no, just having a bijection isn't enough for type equality or anything either < 1359877288 294143 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not? < 1359877302 455524 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 JOIN :#esoteric < 1359877340 589281 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because a tuple of A and B can't be used everywhere an A can be used. (You'd have to "extract" the A first.) < 1359877353 847605 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:24 yeah, that's yet another usage of the term "polymorphism". < 1359877369 703395 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't care about polymorphism. I'm fine being explicit about conversions from a subtype to a supertype. < 1359877383 798320 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Polymorphism is like the whole point of subtyping, though. < 1359877412 979133 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you just want injective morphisms or whatever you can do that without subtyping. < 1359877427 264250 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :is "morphism" a word that means "function" here < 1359877436 209547 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, whatever. < 1359877446 987908 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :This isn't about Haskell. < 1359877451 484317 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know. < 1359877460 870489 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously Haskell doesn't have *any* subtyping, and it has *no* implicit conversions. < 1359877465 744312 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :right. < 1359877492 314804 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it still makes sense to talk about how (A,B) could <: A, doesn't it? < 1359877502 456172 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scala has implicit conversions < 1359877539 942553 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could, yes, sorry. < 1359877547 916363 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Not really for this case so much, though, although I guess you could, but that would be dumb)' < 1359877549 368129 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm used to nominal subtyping, I guess. < 1359877564 761675 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is extremely nominal subtyping. :-) < 1359877569 96647 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm specifying the relationship here. < 1359877588 262154 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, the interesting thing is that the function :: (A,B) -> A *isn't* enough to specify the subtyping relationship. < 1359877613 689920 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have a function that takes a mutable A, and I pass it a mutable (A,B), it can mutate it just fine. < 1359877636 718081 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this reaching around to lenses? < 1359877643 732341 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything is lenses. < 1359878134 707687 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :except for monoids :D < 1359878157 311705 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo lenses should have generic monoid traversal < 1359878170 122964 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo they do < 1359878216 282447 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :good < 1359878537 38440 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Catching exceptions of pure functions in Haskell violates the Matthew 6:3 rule. I would rather suggest a macro (if (x ->| y) is the type of macros that take an expression of type x and result in a value of type y) where catchPureErrors :: x ->| IO (Either String x); or something like that. < 1359878782 921651 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's a pure function it shouldn't throw exceptions. < 1359878787 578835 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(/) is an abberation < 1359878794 97486 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and an abomination < 1359878804 497796 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(/) doesn't throw exceptions. < 1359878839 220319 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t try < 1359878841 412322 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `try' < 1359878847 846135 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t Control.Exception.try < 1359878849 997461 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :GHC.Exception.Exception e => IO a -> IO (Either e a) < 1359878873 497938 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> try (return $ 1/0) < 1359878875 258270 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: `try' < 1359878882 610866 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> Control.Exception.try (return $ 1/0) < 1359878884 781471 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: `Control.Exception.try' < 1359878890 994178 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know it shouldn't throw exceptions, but it does, so that is why I suggest, make it a macro instead. < 1359878896 312020 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh < 1359878914 963457 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> Control.Exception.try (return $ 1/0) < 1359878917 363182 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: `Control.Exception.try' < 1359878919 593415 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1359878926 130489 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 1/0 < 1359878928 665104 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Infinity < 1359878940 619026 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 1/0 :: Integer < 1359878943 818410 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (GHC.Real.Fractional GHC.Integer.Type.Integer) < 1359878944 4222 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising f... < 1359878951 356489 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 1/0 :: Int < 1359878951 828009 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You cannot run I/O in lambdabot; use your own computer or use HackEgo or something. < 1359878953 475371 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (GHC.Real.Fractional GHC.Types.Int) < 1359878953 660922 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use o... < 1359878953 846323 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1359878962 421770 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi monqy < 1359878967 428384 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :does tapl talk about subtyping < 1359878967 847449 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 1/0 :: Rational < 1359878969 852292 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : *Exception: Ratio.%: zero denominator < 1359878972 753610 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi?????? < 1359878973 293777 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There. < 1359878974 392768 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: near the end. < 1359878985 85969 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: tell me about subtyping?? < 1359878990 327111 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you "an expe"rt < 1359878990 512663 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1359878995 385109 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you want to know about it < 1359879000 180842 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know.....some stuff..... < 1359879012 682922 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps enough?? perhaps not < 1359879017 887093 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends on what you want to know about it < 1359879040 719498 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :like i'm no expert on intersection/union types but i know about other stuff < 1359879143 275002 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: well uhh....... < 1359879149 674432 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what kinds of subtyping are there < 1359879163 353128 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a sort of subtyping thing for products right?? < 1359879169 761722 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :where you can say (a,b) <: a < 1359879174 801421 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also one for sums?? < 1359879179 520885 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :where you can say a <: Either a b < 1359879281 543336 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you can say that (a) is less than or equal to (Either a b) < 1359879282 411321 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhh you can do that sort of thing if you want to....the treatment i'm familiar with does it with subtyping for records and variants rather than implicitly doing injections/projections for...semantic reasons... < 1359879361 374074 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok can you explaiin that treatment a bit........ < 1359879368 474715 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :like {l1: a, l2: b} <: {l1: a}; <: < 1359879381 432403 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this "structural subtyping".............................. < 1359879408 733926 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway ok maybe i'll try "the monqy treatment" for a bit?? < 1359879410 937615 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you're working with the theory you usually deal with structural typing always, since it's cleaner < 1359879417 357524 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@fluttershy.pl QUIT :Excess Flood < 1359879431 705811 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :so now let's add mutability "for fun" < 1359879446 596399 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the full treatment that way is just an extension of that for arbitrary width and you can have the types of the stuff change as well < 1359879449 494858 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :since covariance < 1359879461 841602 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :if foo accepts {l1: a}, i can pass it {l1: a, l2: b}, and it can mutate the l1 part < 1359879464 844631 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :right?? < 1359879489 848973 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :but for variants it ""doesn't work"" that way < 1359879508 298040 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh if you get into that territory you have to make the fields invariant i think so disregard what i said about covariance < 1359879526 985127 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's that a is a subtype of a|b, not the other way < 1359879529 983365 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :well sure you have to get invariance with mutability < 1359879556 18401 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: right but if foo operates on a|b i can't pass it an "a"!! < 1359879563 675776 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it might mutate the variant to l2? < 1359879590 497098 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no? < 1359879596 347081 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :might... what? < 1359879598 774054 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean < 1359879661 46223 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :well if you have a mutable foo : < 1359879666 173699 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can mutate it from l1 to l2 < 1359879667 594677 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :right?? < 1359879676 730023 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean "mutate it from l1 to l2" < 1359879690 681161 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, i see < 1359879692 701575 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know :'( < 1359879696 338681 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :what should i mean < 1359879702 381801 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :change the object from being an a to being a b < 1359879708 567054 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does mutability + variants work < 1359879743 548528 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that seems like a weird mutation though? maybe you just say 'nope you can't do that' and that's that < 1359879747 377949 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wwweeeeeeeelllllll < 1359879758 476405 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the treatment im used to for mutability is sort of < 1359879760 114333 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"explicit" < 1359879765 982587 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which makes this nice < 1359879792 470067 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd have something like ref(a|b) and then since ref(t) is invariant in t............ < 1359879828 701399 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@fluttershy.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1359879835 237236 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(answer: you don't get the "bad subtyping") < 1359879876 541294 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you don't want to put explicit "ref's" over everything then just pretend there's invariance everywhere anything could go hay wire < 1359879902 749506 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay so what happens with th ref < 1359879910 992245 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you have the product subtype < 1359879932 186972 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well ref(t) is invariant in t in general < 1359879935 929064 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1359879942 445522 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that's "not good enough????" < 1359879977 618168 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you looking for an answer to something more specific or < 1359879983 176758 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example in "some languages" if you have class Foo { A a; }; class Bar : Foo { B b; }; you can pass a mutable Bar to something that expects a mutable Foo?? < 1359879986 156098 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1359879998 627861 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that seems "valid to me" < 1359880052 835023 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is B <: A here < 1359880070 95229 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1359880077 241834 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an """"additional field"""" < 1359880082 859863 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1359880102 211551 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :so this is like (A,B) <: A < 1359880102 733978 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see now, that's "weird snytax" not "inconsistent syntax < 1359880103 647788 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1359880120 69856 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry for using weird syntax < 1359880180 767670 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: so do you see what i mean now.... < 1359880183 557488 :ion!ion@83.145.237.222 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1359880186 81949 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't do this with ref < 1359880191 374731 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it has to "be invariant" < 1359880222 572503 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PART :#esoteric < 1359880228 301989 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1359880246 648390 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the "point is":: this doesn't work for "sum subtypes" < 1359880257 325668 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :right? < 1359880307 541837 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :im..,,,.thinking about it < 1359880350 257077 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: anyway my "point is" that the kind of mutability i gave for product-subtypes is like lenses < 1359880358 228984 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :and this kind is like prisms < 1359880383 613735 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1359880430 746582 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if you think about it profunctor-lenses and simple-lenses are related to "substitutatutatatututability" < 1359880434 45254 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you have < 1359880446 109262 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall p. (CONSTRAINTS p) => p A -> p S < 1359880457 34980 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :if there are no constraints then you have leibniz equality < 1359880472 156949 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then you "add on" more constraints to get lenses/prisms/"other stuff" < 1359880483 72872 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1359880503 502496 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf is a meatpacking district < 1359880513 240565 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :a district that packs meat < 1359880513 672989 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: so what does "that mean" < 1359880520 318341 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some job offer is talking about how they're located in a glamorous meatpacking district < 1359880539 951186 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/glamorous/hip/ < 1359880545 571084 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But they use the word glamorous elsewhere < 1359880552 861352 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :they pack hip meat < 1359880572 991558 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this in new york < 1359880576 95122 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1359880583 573158 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1359880588 613097 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's an entry level position < 1359880591 161293 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a pretty hip district imo < 1359880601 4897 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"- Swanky and fashionably bright Manhattan loft space in the hip meatpacking district." < 1359880619 672447 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1359880623 253199 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds swanky < 1359880638 821070 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should stop making fun of potential future employers in publically logged chat < 1359880649 438004 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I could never have a bad word to say about Transcriptic, I think < 1359880650 252006 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1359880653 108166 :ion!ion@heh.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1359880653 927729 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're going to make fun of you < 1359880654 784557 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except they're too far away :( < 1359880663 409072 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you nondualist? < 1359880665 472239 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, yeah, but not where I'm going to see < 1359880669 584759 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yes and no < 1359880685 554957 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Please be more specific. < 1359880705 91317 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: what's a nondu alist. < 1359880720 650188 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: Did you go see NANDA? < 1359880771 193049 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's nanda < 1359880789 702203 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://nandatown.com/ < 1359880801 577084 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :they were in los angeles a few months ago/?? < 1359880997 353472 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: anyway i think this is something like ref(a,b) ~ (ref a, ref b) but ref(a|b) !~ for the reason you described < 1359881035 568611 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :id have to think "a bit more" to come up what with it's isomorphic to but "probably lens has the answer already so" < 1359881047 462519 :impomatic!~digital_w@46.208.232.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grrr... it seems like the only way to get this regex to work is to reverse the string, regex, then reverse again :-( < 1359881071 375109 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: maybe it does but i don't know it :"( < 1359881098 951577 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : <: ref(a|b) at least, i think, if you want to get "real fancy" < 1359881135 518190 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does? < 1359881152 792747 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1359881178 539532 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the standard "prism thing" isn't it < 1359881203 508927 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i forgot a detail < 1359881204 810388 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"woops" < 1359881212 599875 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :what thing < 1359881223 619916 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"you're probably right but im not sure what you mean" < 1359881227 121846 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :im going to think about it a bit more and then respond < 1359881239 291152 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1359881353 461224 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just applied < 1359881367 464617 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah i forgot a case i think < 1359881370 627199 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :woops woops < 1359881418 326446 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or: Did I??? < 1359881507 937464 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :inj (Left a) = {view: Left (view a), set (Left a'): set a = a'; set (Right b'): a} < 1359881515 618423 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :inj (Right b) similar < 1359881518 686126 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: look about right? < 1359881526 464608 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So maybe I'll get a "swanky" job with "swanky" Mac Pros < 1359881531 135245 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: "very pseudocode" < 1359881534 734320 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the meatpacking district < 1359881536 475427 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait what's inj < 1359881541 169304 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How ... fashion...y < 1359881550 591910 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :visual....ness.....glamour.....stuff < 1359881555 681951 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: injection from into ref(a|b) < 1359881588 885672 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1359881630 375081 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not completely sure i understand your pseudocode but "does it work the other way around" < 1359881645 616558 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :and is this meant to be sort of prismlike or what < 1359881725 132813 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the setting is like uhh what's it called < 1359881740 452748 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i -remember- there being a lens thing like that < 1359881744 101683 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i forget what it's called < 1359881762 86934 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :alongside outside inside within without < 1359881766 54241 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"one of that crowd???????" < 1359881793 254528 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm maybe not < 1359881819 693825 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it's not < 1359881839 692597 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :which lens are you thinking of < 1359881898 998402 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :im probably actually thinking of something in something more general than prism but it acts like this for prisms < 1359881918 275815 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Setter perhaps? < 1359881940 351111 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait what does it do < 1359881962 172538 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> Left "hi" .~ _Left "there" < 1359881963 881672 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `Control.Lens.Setter.ASetter < 1359881964 67115 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ... < 1359881967 120986 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no~~~~ < 1359881969 462386 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!!!!!!! < 1359881979 187852 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1359881979 412354 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :> Left "hi" & _Left .~ "there" < 1359881982 211572 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Left "there" < 1359881984 191693 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1359881985 871157 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and < 1359881998 951199 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> Right "hi" & _Left .~ "woops!!" < 1359882001 56013 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Right "hi" < 1359882004 257348 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's that sort of thing < 1359882024 856760 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :well sure a prism is a setter < 1359882050 408120 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but note that maybe a prism should actually be an unprism??) < 1359882053 616756 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(to match up with lens) < 1359882056 907276 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love prisms. They are so easy. < 1359882057 115717 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if you're talking about subtyping" < 1359882058 209443 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1359882068 232028 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in which case an unprism is not a setter. though it's an unsetter) < 1359882179 769295 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway uh the idea is that from a you can get a ref that when you look at it you look at whatever you put in, and when you try to set it you only go through with the setting if you're setting the "right thing" < 1359882183 415427 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1359882198 470226 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1359882199 535811 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas you can't really go the other way < 1359882208 908188 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was my idea from before < 1359882213 128800 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes.. < 1359882215 30643 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :where you pass the supertype < 1359882219 831035 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it doesn't really work.................. < 1359882229 414145 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh what's your idea from before < 1359882236 353711 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i "forgot" it < 1359882245 22886 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i didn't say it < 1359882263 586945 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just that when you have a product, i.e. a thing you can make a lens for, you can pass in a subtype < 1359882278 227662 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :but when you have a sum ie something you can make a prism for, you can pass in a supertype < 1359882285 600714 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that way you still get "over" < 1359882339 154234 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1359882359 594864 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this conforms to my intuitions,,,,at least,,,,,, < 1359882375 514489 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then how do you actually use it < 1359882413 276558 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :because i can't just write function Foo(A a) { a."mutatify"(); } and then pass it (Either a b) < 1359882424 794456 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :well not if it has any other "side effects for instance'. < 1359882453 260806 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :are we talking about lenses/prisms or mutability :( lenses/prisms are a lot easier to think about imo < 1359882454 1148 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it expects there to be an a < 1359882470 364594 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: imo too but i want to see what these concepts "translate to" with subtyping < 1359882475 700928 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"and maybe vice versa" < 1359882487 953600 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo if you do Foo(Right x) then Foo won't be called at all. < 1359882496 438698 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise it doesn't really make sense?? < 1359882508 225036 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yeah that's the exact same thing you get with .~ isn't it < 1359882508 410676 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :but this way it doesn't really make sense either < 1359882523 538586 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what doesn't make sense about it < 1359882524 423842 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :well sure but it's kind of weird from the perspective of "mutability and subtyping" < 1359882537 194706 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :because are you calling Foo or aren't you < 1359882726 66997 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what sort of perspective of "mutability and subtyping" is this? in "mutability and subtyping" languages i know of it doesn't work like this :-) you don't have sum types like that, you don't pass the supertype yada yada < 1359882745 959787 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that example would be a "downcast" and you'd hit a "runtime failure" < 1359882749 289656 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know but i was trying to figure out like "what if it would??" < 1359882760 859161 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: prisms are a lot like a "downcast" with a "runtime failure" < 1359882773 110415 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prism' s a = (a -> s, s -> Maybe a) < 1359882775 87492 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :except prisms are well-behaved and easy to think about < 1359882805 382576 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :from the "what if it would" perspective of "analogy by prisms" it'd work in the "weird" way "oh well" < 1359882815 562200 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think there's anything wrong with that? < 1359882829 43341 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :well ok < 1359882832 107855 :impomatic!~digital_w@46.208.232.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The FYB hill is broken :-( < 1359882833 876649 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :so how would sums work with subtyping < 1359882845 80186 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess usually they have "open sums??" < 1359882864 463883 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that doesn't really work < 1359882868 75179 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in if you have a ref what's that isomorphic to? < 1359882877 105033 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or < 1359882880 539840 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that's one question yes < 1359882905 709107 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the answer is "i'd have to think about it" < 1359882918 271538 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :good answer < 1359883020 684806 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: btw should we use Unprisms instead of Prisms < 1359883026 366897 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess "probably not" < 1359883028 327960 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's an unprism < 1359883034 82530 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if you used both < 1359883036 444396 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a p t s -> p b a prism < 1359883045 885168 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: oh that reminds me i have a lens question < 1359883054 778999 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do lenses and unprisms have in common < 1359883059 377647 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's their "common superclass" < 1359883086 174523 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :class Lensy p where lensy :: p a b -> p (r,a) (r,b) < 1359883099 553109 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :class Unprismy p where unprismy :: p (r,a) (r,b) -> p a b < 1359883102 343889 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :errrrr < 1359883103 644433 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ignore that < 1359883107 569044 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :class Lensy p where lensy :: p a b -> p (r,a) (r,b) < 1359883121 221615 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :class Unprismy p where unprismy :: p (Either r a) (Either r b) -> p a b < 1359883135 164927 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think these two have a "common superclass" (other than profunctor) < 1359883157 955123 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: simple version: < 1359883163 557365 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :class Lensy p where lensy :: p a -> p (r,a) < 1359883173 148410 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :class Unprismy p where unprismy :: p (Either r a) -> p a < 1359883191 459757 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :h m < 1359883276 902451 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :also there's Unlensy and Prismy < 1359883283 884110 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :which are "analogous" < 1359883310 847864 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you have an "analogous" question about unlensy and prismy or is that "well known" or "uninteresting" < 1359883331 866135 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have an "analogous" question < 1359883346 982016 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lensy and Unprismy both have a Forget r instance. < 1359883359 28096 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Unlensy and Prismy both have a Tagged instance < 1359883391 593012 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and instance Lensy p => Unlensy (Un p a b), and instance Unlensy p => Lensy (Un p a b), naturally.) < 1359883403 539701 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(where newtype Un p a b s t = Un { unUn :: p t s -> p b a }) < 1359883460 997328 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think Lensy/Unprismy (or Unlensy/Prismy)'s superclass might be interesting "from a subtyping perspective too" < 1359883470 392393 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but that's not where the question came from) < 1359884012 393193 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: any other instances for Unprismy btw < 1359884024 606207 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :other than Forget and Un (and Neither) < 1359884033 612573 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Neither a b = Neither < 1359884160 794065 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :O! It is a category. < 1359884198 33538 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is? < 1359884270 852977 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :id = Neither; Neither . Neither = Neither; < 1359884291 161629 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, Neither is. Sure. < 1359884294 704274 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Neither is a lot of things. :-) < 1359884374 534416 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: What constraints on p do you need to make (Un p a b) a category? < 1359884607 258880 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know. < 1359884866 221411 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My computer's so slow I can't even turn the volume up < 1359884989 845401 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1359884991 553300 :Taneb!~nathan@92.23.131.156 JOIN :#esoteric < 1359885015 644587 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :pactl set-sink-volume 0 65537 < 1359885219 121486 :Taneb!~nathan@92.23.131.156 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you know Hexham has a Village Band? < 1359887852 806519 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? hexham < 1359887857 30366 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hexham is a European town. There are nine people in Hexham, and at least two of them are in this channel. Taneb looks after the ham. < 1359887994 1898 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instead of sleeping I am watching QI. I am brillant. < 1359888684 663580 :impomatic!~digital_w@46.208.232.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has been to Hexham :-) < 1359888885 858436 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who hasn't? < 1359889138 29074 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't < 1359889386 461907 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might not count as a who though < 1359889608 858983 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm afraid you don't. < 1359889611 233108 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry. :-( < 1359889872 608757 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hexham < 1359889881 992305 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I haven't been to hexham < 1359889912 642059 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Way too far up north < 1359889974 300849 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :in finland < 1359890145 524252 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't been to Hexham either, even though I live in Finland. *shame* < 1359890166 232809 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`?hh finland < 1359890168 79712 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/hackenv/bin/?hh: line 1: u: command not found < 1359890177 390802 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/?hh < 1359890178 849754 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​? "$@" | perl -pe 's/([aeiouy])([bcdfghjklmnpqrstvxz])/$1h$2/ig' < 1359890205 6114 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, someone made a file called "u", I see. < 1359890233 56766 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run sed -i -e 's#^#/#' bin/\?hh < 1359890236 955639 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1359890240 339387 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`?hh finland < 1359890241 872988 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/hackenv/bin/?hh: line 1: /?: No such file or directory < 1359890250 115866 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I mistake / for a \. < 1359890252 886459 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Impressive.) < 1359890261 347398 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run sed -i -e 's#^/#\#' bin/\?hh < 1359890262 952587 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :sed: -e expression #1, char 7: unterminated `s' command < 1359890265 870328 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run sed -i -e 's#^/#\\#' bin/\?hh < 1359890268 881763 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :TOO HARD. < 1359890269 463068 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1359890272 479328 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`?hh finland < 1359890274 423158 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fihnlahnd ihs a Euhrohpeahn couhntry. Thehre ahre two peohple ihn Fihnlahnd, ahnd aht leahst nihne ohf thehm ahre ihn thihs chahnnehl. Cohruhn drihvehs the buhs. < 1359890284 704647 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`hyfinate finland < 1359890315 667911 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1359890361 649056 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run \? finland | hyfinate < 1359890363 862463 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fin-land is a Eu-ro-pe-an count-ry. The-re a-re two pe-op-le in Fin-land, and at le-ast ni-ne of them a-re in this chan-nel. Co-run dri-ves the bus. < 1359890381 929035 :Taneb!~nathan@92.23.131.156 PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic, what were you doing in Hexham? < 1359890390 299014 :Taneb!~nathan@92.23.131.156 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run \? Taneb | hyfinate < 1359890392 89957 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ta-neb is not el-li-ott, no mat-ter who y-ou ask. He al-so isn't a rab-bi alt-hough he has pre-ten-ded in the past. (see al-so: d-mo-du-les) < 1359890395 356669 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run words --eng-all 20 | hyfinate < 1359890401 261489 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :su-ber a-tor e-mild er-ry-e asch-ro-duz-co haul-tins-hi wi-de mo-ni-a land-res-sibl ha-ga-nin ne-cei pu-bis-sab-le ga-lam-ber sixt bla en-ta-mi-o wor-det to-pi-do ge-ney al-pi-or < 1359890416 457093 :Taneb!~nathan@92.23.131.156 PRIVMSG #esoteric :...this makes me read it in a Welsh accent < 1359890462 928432 :impomatic!~digital_w@46.208.232.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: I can't remember... Probably just taking a look around, nothing memorable! Also visited a reenactment at Corbridge. < 1359890484 270626 :Taneb!~nathan@92.23.131.156 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are reenactments in Corbridge? < 1359890493 696873 :Taneb!~nathan@92.23.131.156 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've seen a few in Hexham, but not Corbridge < 1359890504 981307 :impomatic!~digital_w@46.208.232.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well they called it a reenactment. It was more like Romans vs English Civil War. < 1359890519 168914 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that a Finnish hyphenation attempt, actually? < 1359890529 375035 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run words --finnish 15 | hyfinate < 1359890531 834019 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :mul-le kä-hei-jai-si mah-ta-viin puh-ku-mak-se-si reik-kai-te e-lis-tauk-sen-ne a-ge-ner-to-vit-tam-me ver-sy-vi-än-nös-sä-ni tun-tel-tä y-hyy-dyl-le-ni tai-sem-pan-ne in-tä-vin vas-sa-si kil-lan-sa as-ta-ni < 1359890577 187351 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: is hyfinate just hh but with the h's replaced with hyphens? < 1359890611 339611 :impomatic!~digital_w@46.208.232.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also visited Birdoswald nearby where they'd set up a Roman camp and did some demonstrations, but no battle. < 1359890620 926197 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: It's not quite the same. < 1359890625 474629 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/hyfinate < 1359890626 913023 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​#!/bin/sh \ exec perl -CS -Mutf8 -pwe 'my$vow=qr/[aeiouyäö]/i;my$con=qr/[bcdfghjklmnpqrstvwxz]/i;1while s/($vow$con*)($con$vow)/$1-$2/g;1while s/a[eoyäö]|e[aoäö]|i[aoäö]|o[aeyäö]|u[aeyäö]|y[aeouä]|ä[aeouö]|ö[aeouä]/my@s=split"",$&;$s[0]."-".$s[1]/egi' < 1359890635 943023 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1359890649 188476 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: It should be correct if the input doesn’t have compound words or foreign words. < 1359890668 459356 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I.e. anything that would require dictionary lookups. < 1359890671 7763 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ion: I'm sure there are some exceptions to every rule somewhere. < 1359890737 495647 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: does it correctly break finnish words at syllables? < 1359890763 41177 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should. < 1359890764 525197 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems to do a pretty good job. < 1359890862 695909 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder if it's possible to do it in english without just looking it up in a syllable dictionary < 1359890866 424516 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ion: http://www2.lingsoft.fi/doc/d-finhyp9.html seems to suggest you do need a bit more rules to be entirely correct. < 1359890919 220909 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@cust-101.ktknet.cz QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1359890970 443533 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1359891005 113652 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess compound words might account for a lot of the complexity, though. < 1359891018 935827 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least based on these TeX Finnish hyphenation rules. < 1359891051 473312 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo maauimala | hyfinate # wovels across the word boundary go wrong, for example < 1359891053 236938 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :maaui-ma-la < 1359891062 247432 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run sed -i -re 's/bcdfghjklmnpqrstvwxz/b-df-hj-np-tv-xz/' bin/hyphenate.fi < 1359891065 690603 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1359891078 182040 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, as i said, it doesn’t support compound words at all. < 1359891078 368780 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :wovels eh < 1359891101 806317 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I keep mistyping that. < 1359891110 402945 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run words --finnish 15 | hyphenate.fi < 1359891113 14027 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :val-vit-täm-me hel-lyt-tu-val-ta kut-ta-vit-ta-mil-lam-me o-hen-tu-vik-sel-lem-mil-ta i-lo-pet-teik-si tul-ke-väm-mäs-sä loi-si-suu kaa-mil-tä hi-ot-ta-ni pom-paat-ti-sem-piin lis-täm-mäk-se-ni si-va-mil-tään va-rot-ta kat-kim-pa-na huo-len-ne < 1359891251 703149 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is hyphenate.fi different from hyfinate? < 1359891268 461716 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I named it hyphenate.fi, shachaf (IIRC) symlinked it to hyfinate. < 1359891283 14571 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I symlinked it to hyfinate in IRC. < 1359891304 216506 :sirdancealot7!~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1359891329 180379 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :help I was compelled to click that as though it was a link < 1359891346 462202 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Silly, it doesn’t even have a protocol. < 1359891447 908985 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course there are some compound words where the word break has multiple valid locations, those are arguably impossible to get right without some mind-reading hardware. (The TeX hyphenation rules mention kaivos|aukko vs. kaivo|saukko as an example.) < 1359891481 643325 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fortunately Perl has readmind() for that. < 1359891546 689642 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is sure J has a 2 character symbol for that < 1359891603 891999 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I’d be interested to see a non-compound Finnish word hyphenate.fi actually doesn’t get right. < 1359891691 347329 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's a non-compound Finnish word? < 1359891725 466545 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kakka is a Finnish word that is not a compound word, for instance. < 1359892058 508621 :sirdancealot!~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz JOIN :#esoteric < 1359892463 405864 :sirdancealot!~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz QUIT :Excess Flood < 1359892548 221979 :sirdancealot!~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz JOIN :#esoteric < 1359893070 915416 :carado!~user4539@2a01:e35:8b61:e430:6ef0:49ff:fe73:1fd0 JOIN :#esoteric < 1359893151 136787 :sirdancealot!~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1359893360 634383 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1359893705 509387 :sirdancealot!~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz JOIN :#esoteric < 1359894103 545366 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo säie | hyfinate # ion: should be säi-e according to Karjalainen, Sulkala, "Finnish (Descriptive Grammar)", 1992. < 1359894106 134068 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :säie < 1359894186 726173 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo rakkaus rakkautta | hyfinate # should be rak-ka-us rak-ka-ut-ta according to the same book. < 1359894189 85495 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :rak-kaus rak-kaut-ta < 1359894288 521974 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo huouimme | hyfinate # ditto huo-ui-mme < 1359894290 532769 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :huouim-me < 1359894335 134777 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Examples picked from 3.2.5.1. Syllabilification of Medial Units and Clusters, the "following additional rules can be mentioned" list.) < 1359894435 520273 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, s/ui-mme/uim-me/ in the last comment, but anyway. < 1359894642 946878 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, using ORDER BY doesn't prevent or change the order of side effects in the result expressions and causes them to be evaluated even in the case of LIMIT and OFFSET, but WHERE does prevent side effects (even in the presence of ORDER BY), but LIMIT and/or OFFSET without ORDER BY will evaluate only the rows actually returned. < 1359894760 100457 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doing this even affects a query in which a subquery has ORDER BY, but if the outer query which is used to perform the side effects has its own ORDER BY which isn't affecting the order of the results, then it will prevent the side effect for rows not returned and will do them in the order returned by the inner query. < 1359894772 745183 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this understandable and/or reasonable to you? < 1359894835 154097 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this how the SQL specification says it should work? < 1359895702 908109 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, what sort of side effects? In a select statement? < 1359895834 230064 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean functions that might be called in the results of a SELECT statement. < 1359895849 546888 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, no clue about that, never used such stuff < 1359896582 791312 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love how SQL shouts at everyone < 1359896642 926333 :RodgerTheGreat!~rodger@71-13-216-83.dhcp.mrqt.mi.charter.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1359898386 179279 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1359902814 213459 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1359903091 298110 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Alright, thanks for the examples. < 1359903393 545152 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :SECURITY QUESTIONABLE LAYER < 1359904478 819428 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1359905245 943482 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1359905339 836036 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1359905877 580414 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : Bike: If A is a subtype of B, which one is bigger? < 1359905887 671965 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought we'd clarified that yesterday < 1359905904 918755 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What was our conclusion? < 1359905933 834506 :Applejacques!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which TYPE is bigger, or which INSTANCE is bigger? :) < 1359905955 170332 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instance of what? < 1359905963 913683 :Applejacques!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instance of those types. < 1359905964 887869 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the answer is: it has nothing to do with number of members, because when A is a subtype of B that _is_ a subset, then (B -> C) is a subtype of (A -> C) which is _larger_. < 1359905985 12865 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Right. < 1359905989 151517 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's my answer too. < 1359905990 710363 :Applejacques!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, if we're talkin' types, then B is larger than A. < 1359905996 578223 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :No it's not. < 1359906006 12384 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Instance of a type" :( < 1359906044 875564 :Applejacques!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol, this is fun. < 1359906128 231109 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run type love || (printf '%s\n' '#!/bin/sh' 'printf "i love %s. they are so easy." "$*"' >bin/love && chmod 755 bin/love && love instances) < 1359906133 399676 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash: line 0: type: love: not found \ i love instances. they are so easy. < 1359906141 299383 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :`love whores < 1359906144 249563 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love whores. they are so easy. < 1359906166 425289 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sighs. < 1359906168 213777 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`rm bin/love < 1359906171 262839 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1359906211 990062 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :D-: < 1359906258 546934 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :help < 1359906268 584366 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott is destroying the fruits of my labor < 1359906292 732797 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ion: you are attempting to resurrect dead horses. that is evil. < 1359906317 250331 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :But i love dead horses. They are so easy. < 1359906322 156672 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially since it was a nasty horse to start with. < 1359906374 911760 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wtf saying "they are so easy" < 1359906376 518184 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :why saying "they are so easy" is like wtf < 1359906395 753059 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :HTH < 1359906400 836151 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo has FreeFull ever said a single useful thing in here ever? < 1359906471 409390 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Probably. < 1359906551 782056 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :or ion < 1359906594 535347 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ion has said at least one useful thing. < 1359906634 477028 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about shachaf < 1359906661 46273 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ion: did you seriously just look at beaky.txt to get more accurate beaky uotes < 1359906663 104781 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :q < 1359906706 941858 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I thought you were against logs. < 1359906731 17135 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who said anything about logs? < 1359906735 904752 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm reading in real time. < 1359906737 876775 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :{bea,mon}{k,q}y < 1359906779 595220 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :beaky.txt is a log. < 1359906789 394632 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1359906791 573134 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a public log. < 1359907388 700359 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Does it matter if the things I say are useful < 1359909327 488883 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ogrom, "HTH"? What does that mean < 1359909365 842791 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hellish taiga hapapiness < 1359909590 50798 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hot Tasmanian Housewives. < 1359910406 947758 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm I think Phantom_Hoover is right < 1359910419 967713 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :it makes perfect sense in the context unlike your suggestion elliott < 1359910474 500334 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how you pinged ogrom. < 1359910535 683225 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, lol oops < 1359911981 98687 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: i know a few things about subtyping < 1359911986 334112 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know TaPL things about subtyping < 1359912668 413089 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Homo Taurus Hinensis < 1359912678 948188 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :high temperature halibut < 1359912700 675136 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Henry The Hippopotamus < 1359912804 630415 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I may not be coherent enough now to talk about the things I was going to talk about. < 1359912814 554620 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So what TaPL things are there about subtyping? < 1359912820 423463 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What sorts of subtyping are there? < 1359912940 420794 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do sums and products work out? < 1359913085 688358 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't remember < 1359913090 11257 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i could look them up in TaPL < 1359913093 943854 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"know" may have been an overstatement < 1359913112 514142 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think generally (Int,String) would not be a subtype of Int < 1359913136 136096 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can have record systems where {a:Int, b:String} is a subtype of {a:Int} < 1359913207 191714 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can pick something like that as your "primitive" subtyping relation < 1359913233 435488 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then you want it to be reflexive, antisymmetric, transitive < 1359913276 609903 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you extend the subtyping relation to function types with covariance in the return position and contravariance in the argument position < 1359913385 636081 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is only the basic stuff, it's what i remember < 1359913394 605407 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1359913505 420594 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1359913513 87065 :function!root@freebsd/developer/variable NICK :trout < 1359913537 621370 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: OK, but what about the relationship of Int and Either Int String? < 1359913641 764880 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems to make sense to say a <: Either a b in a similar way to the way it makes sense to say (a,b) <: a < 1359913656 324271 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :These let you do different things, though. < 1359913663 236561 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does TaPL talk about mutability? < 1359913712 97473 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think so < 1359913755 399777 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :With "product" subtypes, you add extra fields, but if f expects a mutable (a,b), I can pass it a mutable (a,b,c) just fine. < 1359913760 759905 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it can mutate the a and b if it wants. < 1359913765 820214 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right? < 1359913789 246051 :ogrom!~del@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee QUIT :Quit: Left < 1359913796 977254 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i think so < 1359913811 281656 :Bike_!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1359913843 888797 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But with sums you don't get that. < 1359913857 757003 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because what if you try to mutate it from a Left to a Right or something? < 1359913928 977283 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :mm < 1359913933 851098 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i haven't thought about that < 1359913959 100990 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do know that (a <: b) => ((a,c) <: (b,c)) becomes problematic if your pairs are mutable < 1359913962 24645 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't it? < 1359914063 892338 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the same reason as for arrays/lists < 1359914068 165809 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :got to go to lunch though, ttyl < 1359914069 538601 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1359914087 26245 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Anyway I think this corresponds to lenses and prisms. < 1359914106 883129 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: And I think functor/profunctor lenses correspond to Liskov substitutability. < 1359914119 261274 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I might just be making things up. < 1359914250 522772 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1359914262 213320 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1359914433 618243 :Taneb!~nathan@92.23.131.156 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1359914481 705245 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it just me or are these a bit similar? < 1359914482 75509 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric : uncompose f g k = Un2 $ \q -> ($ q) . under _Un2 f $ \x -> ($ q) . under _Un2 g $ \y -> unUn2 k (x C.. y) < 1359914485 268766 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric : nip f g k = Op $ \t -> ($ t) . under _Op f $ \x -> ($ t) . under _Op g $ \y -> getOp k (x,y) < 1359914692 389967 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-182-94.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1359915054 422121 :Bike_!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net NICK :Bike < 1359915191 861272 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@fluttershy.pl QUIT :Excess Flood < 1359915712 578025 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@fluttershy.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1359916094 617470 :heroux!~heroux@5070823C.static.ziggozakelijk.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1359916830 214161 :heroux!~heroux@5070823C.static.ziggozakelijk.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1359916998 194282 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1359917114 915186 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1359918861 464192 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1359919774 512503 :atriq!~nathan@host-2-97-146-154.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1359919955 329355 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-182-94.as13285.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1359920685 14180 :atriq!~nathan@host-2-97-146-154.as13285.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1359920712 620300 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages < 1359920712 806518 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't have any new messages. < 1359921107 36395 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages < 1359921107 460918 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't have any new messages. < 1359921206 605756 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell ais523 hi < 1359921207 76516 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1359921210 613577 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell ais523 what is up < 1359921211 29796 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1359921215 562767 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@clear-messages < 1359921215 748512 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Messages cleared. < 1359921217 974175 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi elliott < 1359921220 770547 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell ais523 wow that's impolite < 1359921221 297774 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1359921228 934299 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@clear-messages < 1359921229 120222 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Messages cleared. < 1359921235 886284 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've already read them as you sent them < 1359921248 148255 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ask ais523 for advice < 1359921248 634044 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1359921262 393618 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@clear-messages < 1359921262 579314 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Messages cleared. < 1359921263 811462 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell elliott hi < 1359921264 231804 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1359921266 211111 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: that's nto a question < 1359921268 782033 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*not a question < 1359921275 203010 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, we should probably stop the bot abuse < 1359921283 633388 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@sabis.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1359921313 228294 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@cust-101.ktknet.cz JOIN :#esoteric < 1359921336 437997 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ignore + ais523 < 1359921338 489479 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Agreed! < 1359921338 926433 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. < 1359921344 182255 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages < 1359921344 593448 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner said 1m 20s ago: hi < 1359921367 72763 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: huh, I didn't use lambdabot much anyway < 1359921369 656008 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION waits for ais523 to try and use lambdabot so he can take the ignore off. < 1359921376 818979 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so this mostly means that if you send me messages, I won't be able to read them < 1359921408 615260 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Would I do that? < 1359921409 435098 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1359921422 6233 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you did earlier < 1359921430 617052 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ignore - ais523 < 1359921432 876886 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, apparently if lambdabot is ignoring you it won't notify you of new messages. < 1359921439 349791 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes sense < 1359921439 535974 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. < 1359921442 726267 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@admin - shachaf < 1359921444 480235 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages < 1359921444 666224 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott said 39s ago: hello < 1359921446 236365 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Abusing your privileges!!!! < 1359921462 290691 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@admin - elliott < 1359921462 583395 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not enough privileges < 1359921475 994024 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@admin - elliott < 1359921479 668542 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :By privileges I mean non-privileges. < 1359921486 816569 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Since you're not actually a lambdabot admin.) < 1359921490 562056 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :check your lack of privilege < 1359921499 258539 :atriq!~nathan@host-92-30-207-105.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1359921504 752300 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: By the way you should undo that. < 1359921512 950134 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@undo @admin - elliott < 1359921513 452548 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Parse error at "@admi..." (column 1) < 1359921523 563135 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"if only ghc had undo notation" < 1359921537 203728 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@admin + elliott < 1359921551 492003 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"try not to abuse it this time" < 1359921591 702037 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how I was going to un@ignore ais523 once it gave him the message notification anyway. < 1359921667 149772 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :You just fooled my IRC client into thinking un@ignore is someone's email address :( < 1359921702 971636 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest: who knows, it theoretically could be < 1359921713 649182 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :#include < 1359921716 775902 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even on the public internet, what with ICANN going crazy recently < 1359921717 474842 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't join it! < 1359921720 606301 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but definitely privately < 1359921724 467945 :Nisstyre-laptop!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre JOIN :#esoteric < 1359921725 288875 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure, is ignore a DNS TLD? < 1359921734 299827 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest: ICANN have been adding loads of new ones recently < 1359921735 501659 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you want it to be? < 1359921751 842081 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ICANN easily imagine it being one. < 1359921758 273754 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh, if you have enough money < 1359921766 613620 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :ICANN is corrupt < 1359921805 556261 :atriq!~nathan@host-92-30-207-105.as13285.net NICK :Taneb < 1359921818 534068 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, I don't know of any TLD that is also a hostname mapping to an actual server < 1359922091 259469 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@fluttershy.pl QUIT :Excess Flood < 1359922241 435624 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest: "an.", I thought was one < 1359922251 202193 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I don't think there's a webserver there, just an email server < 1359922295 196738 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1359922342 799861 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@fluttershy.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1359922673 604902 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1359922804 98543 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@fluttershy.pl QUIT :Excess Flood < 1359922942 367337 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@fluttershy.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1359923396 430532 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1359924032 245390 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1359924653 505140 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@sabis.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1359925878 504032 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 JOIN :#esoteric < 1359926316 87841 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: hm back to the subtyping a moment - even if a is not a subtype of Either a b and (a,b) is not a subtype of a, types that are internally _represented_ identically to those can be subtypes of each other. so subtyping is something independent of representation (and cardinality). < 1359926373 720433 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, if something is a subtype at a higher level, there needs to be a conversion of the internal representations. < 1359926410 142909 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :which needs be neither injective nor surjective. < 1359926418 172379 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's ways to work subtypey-coercions into the semantics yes < 1359926458 158764 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i slightly understand scala uses implicit coercions a _lot_ to get advanced type features < 1359926758 895866 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : But it still makes sense to talk about how (A,B) could <: A, doesn't it? <-- in an OO system where almost any type means "these methods exist, and there might be others because of subtyping" something resembling (A,B) <: A is sort of necessary < 1359926805 190494 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i believe ocaml's type system makes these things more explicit than most... < 1359926830 335269 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :although i only vaguely recall the specifics. < 1359926866 815977 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you have types that _do_ mean simply "methods of these names and types exist". < 1359926906 178710 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"(and there might be others)" < 1359926940 135326 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means it has structural types for objects. < 1359927003 296102 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-207-105.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you guys work out the difference between a cosubtype and a supertype yet < 1359927032 575767 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have no idea. < 1359927175 108933 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, what is a cosubtype < 1359927183 987576 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-207-105.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno < 1359927187 679429 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh okay < 1359927191 917095 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-207-105.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think shachaf was talking about them the other day < 1359927388 868753 :carado!~user4539@2a01:e35:8b61:e430:6ef0:49ff:fe73:1fd0 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1359927427 799567 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1359927756 763494 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what definition of coref would satisfy ~ coref ? < 1359927771 688674 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(nontrivial of course) < 1359927799 695413 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :something dual to mutability... < 1359928052 854036 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oerjan < 1359928056 981190 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet it would have to do with prisms. < 1359928083 197325 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: coref a = ref a -> r for some r? < 1359928102 315044 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : r | ref b -> r> ~ (ref -> r) < 1359928116 302551 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That needs mapping over refs, though. < 1359928129 352622 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think that is true. < 1359928178 611452 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is nothing preventing the function on the right from storing both a's and b's into the ref in sequence < 1359928300 409289 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe if ref's are implicitly wrapping things into State monads, then coref's should be wrapping things into Costate comonads < 1359928319 709181 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*-' -' < 1359928412 47917 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, maybe corefs don't live in the kind of imperative language that is modeled with monads at all < 1359928653 901957 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you have a comonad CoST? < 1359928699 672660 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :...i was just thinking that thought < 1359928744 349909 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is terrified of what the equivalent of runST looks like. < 1359928835 763577 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: btw although (Ref a, Ref b) is like Ref (a, b) they are *not* the same in Haskell < 1359928840 548627 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. there is no function either way. < 1359928867 540439 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need to wrap it up with data Ref a = forall b. Ref (SomeRef b) (a -> b) (b -> a) < 1359928876 654727 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I assume the same would apply to Coref < 1359928984 215556 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is a Coref? < 1359929003 442162 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what is the use of it < 1359929025 419888 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i totally read 'corefs' as 'core fs' < 1359929045 455350 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously, too much systems and not enough haskell for me :( < 1359929224 64195 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :) fungot < 1359929224 291742 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc:. i'm so kind, even to assholes! anmaster no not markov anmaster no not markov < 1359929224 477978 :jconn!~username@la-pinta.la.net.ua PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: |value error: fungot < 1359929224 478050 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :jconn: just to help an fnord archive)" means " land of meadows" from the name of the array, it is documented, and only if the strings? what kind of like that) which is actually pretty nice) is the name of the array, it is documented, and only if the strings? what kind of like that) which is actually pretty nice, but sometimes it's necessary to achieve the planned than fnord since no sign, perhaps, it may be said that particular < 1359929224 663901 :jconn!~username@la-pinta.la.net.ua PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: |open quote < 1359929224 664102 :jconn!~username@la-pinta.la.net.ua PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: | just to help an fnord archive)" means " land of meadows" from the name of the array, it is documented, and only if the strings? what kind of like that) which is actually pretty nice) is the name of the array, it is documented, and only if the strings? what kind of like that) which is actually pretty nice, but sometimes it's necessary to achieve the planned than fnord since no sign, < 1359929224 664214 :jconn!~username@la-pinta.la.net.ua PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: | ^ < 1359929224 849517 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :jconn: i am just as confused. you know, that thing which you might want is broken" archives. even less chance. i called " o" in " the other side has, perhaps, it may be said that particularly here, parliament will give a single instance, < 1359929224 849645 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :jconn: is that something you know and and the cases that required to actually mutate the original i think you were still a very famous program talisman with fnord windows. that's always tricky. i could actually make progress. securing budgetary authority, can the governments. i know 2. that's obvious and you did refer to his fnord code < 1359929224 849690 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :jconn: to " print" statement should always remember the songs on p2p apps in scheme, besides, was not beyond normal credibility! < 1359929225 35429 :jconn!~username@la-pinta.la.net.ua PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: |spelling error < 1359929230 208420 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: We don't know, and there aren't any. < 1359929232 632559 :jconn!~username@la-pinta.la.net.ua PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: | i am just as confused. you know, that thing which you might want is broken" archives. even less chance. i called " o" in " the other side has, perhaps, it may be said that particularly here, parliament will give a single instance, < 1359929232 818299 :jconn!~username@la-pinta.la.net.ua PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: | ^ < 1359929236 643572 :jconn!~username@la-pinta.la.net.ua PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: |spelling error < 1359929247 215964 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no that wrapping doesn't work either, because translating a write to a Ref (a,b) into (Ref a, Ref b) requires _two_ writes < 1359929248 644306 :jconn!~username@la-pinta.la.net.ua PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: | is that something you know and and the cases that required to actually mutate the original i think you were still a very famous program talisman with fnord windows. that's always tricky. i could actually make progress. securing budgetary authority, can the governments. i know 2. that's obvious and you did refer to his fnord code < 1359929256 634014 :jconn!~username@la-pinta.la.net.ua PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: | ^ < 1359929264 654024 :jconn!~username@la-pinta.la.net.ua PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: to"_ _ _"_ _ _ (should always remember the songs on p2p apps in scheme , besides , was not beyond normal credibility !) < 1359929290 227858 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: i think it is about time to expand ^ignore again. < 1359929335 668910 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm... < 1359929342 76933 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> "hi fungot" < 1359929342 262544 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: so, let's say i call them mindless games. if we hit every stupid person, any person going to the theater < 1359929344 184779 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "hi fungot" < 1359929402 752206 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote fungot: |open quote fungot: | just to help an fnord archive)" [...] jconn: i am just as confused. you know, that thing which you might want is broken < 1359929402 937890 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: that is just a value of type " airbus is a big fan of avril....but this song " there < 1359929407 26857 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bleh, now I want to know the rest of that fungot sentence < 1359929407 212903 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523:, so i'd make stuff up to. why, this is for you guys are a lot of the design, prisoners and slaves that have sucked. rephrase: " i tried todo a _" is 0 < 1359929410 854603 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :about stupid people < 1359929416 457325 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :951) fungot: |open quote fungot: | just to help an fnord archive)" [...] jconn: i am just as confused. you know, that thing which you might want is broken < 1359929431 753609 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote kmc: that is just a value of type " airbus is a big fan of avril....but this song " there < 1359929431 939136 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: if it's ( syntactically) long, and brainfuck command keys. secondly, the establishment) < 1359929453 100772 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :952) kmc: that is just a value of type " airbus is a big fan of avril....but this song " there < 1359929642 56561 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map (+1) [1..] < 1359929644 265461 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24,25,26,27,28,2... < 1359929657 479609 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix (\x -> x : map (+1) x ) < 1359929659 330111 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: a0 = [a0] < 1359929661 318485 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix (\x -> x : map (+1) x ) 1 < 1359929663 60254 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `t0 -> t1' with actual type `[a0]' < 1359929667 62462 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix (\x -> 1 : map (+1) x ) < 1359929668 934968 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24,25,26,27,28... < 1359929724 75053 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix (\x -> 1 : zipWith (+) x x ) < 1359929726 53027 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [1,2,4,8,16,32,64,128,256,512,1024,2048,4096,8192,16384,32768,65536,131072,... < 1359930168 157520 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-207-105.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> scanl1 (+) (repeat 1) < 1359930170 353060 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24,25,26,27,28... < 1359930205 596904 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> [1..] < 1359930207 709684 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24,25,26,27,28... < 1359930209 461717 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :I WIN < 1359930262 570431 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so everything is a contest with you? < 1359930277 337754 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-207-105.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> scanl1 (+) [1..] < 1359930279 265953 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [1,3,6,10,15,21,28,36,45,55,66,78,91,105,120,136,153,171,190,210,231,253,27... < 1359930299 824417 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :...i can barely begin to explain how much that question doesn't describe me. < 1359930308 128263 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arc_Koen: well, one time he got in a contest to see who could make more things into contests, and it got out of hand. < 1359930318 459836 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1359930328 983989 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't remember that. < 1359930365 220160 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you make a contest to see who was the fastest to forget about it? < 1359930429 246096 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ignore < 1359930429 471776 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :^(EgoBot|HackEgo|toBogE|Sparkbot|optbot|lambdabot|oonbotti|cuttlefish)! < 1359930437 894870 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ignore ^(EgoBot|HackEgo|toBogE|Sparkbot|optbot|lambdabot|oonbotti|cuttlefish|jconn)! < 1359930438 80561 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. < 1359930469 453563 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arc_Koen: MAYBE < 1359930501 826356 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1359930557 988913 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I liked it when fungot didn't ignore jconn. < 1359930558 174579 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i know i didn't know that you've had it for some time i added a new page and sends it to emacs, i suggest, vote). you need to install in /usr/ lib " 1.ss" " srfi" < 1359930605 882913 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does toBogE do nothing but issue bot commands? < 1359930790 858582 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1359931357 260100 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-207-105.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: goodnight < 1359931607 188610 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal: We don't know, and there aren't any. <-- ? < 1359931722 233696 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1359931789 100809 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :who's jconn? < 1359931797 395233 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :a bot for J. < 1359931899 253723 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do you try to fix it with ignore lists and zero-width spaces and everything like that instead of using the proper way? < 1359931945 956569 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :because nobody uses notices < 1359931985 244738 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :) 'Hi ais523' < 1359931985 549648 :jconn!~username@la-pinta.la.net.ua PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Hi ais523 < 1359932016 303904 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the proper way annoys mIRC users < 1359932018 938111 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see this as an advantage < 1359932031 360363 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, thutubot has a prefix to send notice rather than privmsg < 1359932035 72163 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it also annoys irssi users, maybe not as much < 1359932036 160152 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :There should be a bot for all programming languages < 1359932036 742252 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps I should make it always notice < 1359932038 118844 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ever < 1359932042 579869 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: That isn't a good reason. The server and client still supports it. < 1359932048 297040 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: mIRC treats channel notices as pings < 1359932056 864471 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: EgoBot has all the languages that matter < 1359932074 152302 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: except fueue. < 1359932083 731751 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I was going to except an esolang < 1359932085 868163 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but wasn't sure which < 1359932096 742186 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`fueue 72 105 H < 1359932096 742368 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Well, that is a somewhat better reason but still even in mIRC and irssi and whatever don't they have macros and/or options to control them? < 1359932098 886067 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: well, we'd have to convince jconn's owner to make it spit out notices instead of messages, so there's that. < 1359932099 71703 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi < 1359932126 807418 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's do it backwards < 1359932131 56496 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and make the bots only respond to channel notices < 1359932143 256033 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this has all the disadvantages of the correct way of doing things, and fewer advantages < 1359932199 349223 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes, it is too disadvantageous. < 1359932217 576381 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Which ones are those? < 1359932231 87595 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: requiring changes to all the bots, and sending channel notices < 1359932233 217094 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Does it have C? < 1359932234 688178 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And simply wrong. < 1359932238 944141 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :EgoBot has C < 1359932247 221828 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : the proper way annoys mIRC users <-- also xchat < 1359932250 816038 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some form of ASM? < 1359932258 974713 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c int main() { int printf(char *, ...); printf("Hello, world!\n"); } < 1359932265 750054 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello, world! < 1359932271 460631 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes EgoBot has asm < 1359932280 685474 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Making the bots to reply with notices (whether operating privately or publicly) is better. < 1359932297 19599 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, you can /totally/ declare printf inside main like that < 1359932298 595659 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: VAX simulator imo < 1359932316 62048 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c int main() { printf("Test\n"); return 0;} < 1359932319 96320 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Test < 1359932337 439058 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :EgoBot seems to have printf defined already =P < 1359932377 199394 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that is not the correct prototype for printf < 1359932382 714629 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is const char* I'm pretty sure < 1359932385 28061 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c int main() { printf("%f\n",sin(3.4)); return 0;} < 1359932388 424500 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​-0.255541 < 1359932390 71748 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :PRIVMSG messages may still be sent if it is not a result of a command it received in the same way and if auto-replying would be OK from such messages, though. (I do not know if there are any such cases for the existing bots though) < 1359932392 237746 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Has math.h too < 1359932401 433454 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's correct /enough/ to work < 1359932416 220736 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think there are many C systems on which char * and const char * have different calling conventions < 1359932423 299637 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I know it's theoretically legal) < 1359932444 276188 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yikes < 1359932444 575546 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does the C standard allow char * and const char * have different calling conventions? < 1359932452 803755 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it allows all sorts of ridiculous tihngs < 1359932453 363561 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well hm it might be nice to have hardware level const pointers < 1359932454 321473 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*things < 1359932459 580431 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lesse if it has complex.h < 1359932464 889603 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, true < 1359932465 720896 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a const pointer register for passing them around in? < 1359932478 19238 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :type tagged registers, dude < 1359932493 198692 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is the case for using these things with LLVM? < 1359932518 993156 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, the pointer isn't const < 1359932521 630315 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just it's pointing to const things < 1359932543 654000 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I ended up writing something along the lines of "char * volatile" recently < 1359932559 161474 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in order to stop gcc giving me warnings about longjmp (some of which were possibly correct, some of which weren't) < 1359932610 560710 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:46:47 Vorpal: We don't know, and there aren't any. <-- ? < 1359932612 872284 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do have another question about volatile, is a function parameter allowed to specify volatile even if the caller expects the type without volatile, and then cast it to a pointer to a non-volatile type inside of the function? < 1359932624 881893 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I realise your scrollback is small but I was answering a question you asked literally a few lines prior. < 1359932638 743084 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: volatile follows the same rules as const < 1359932639 664153 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, my client crashed < 1359932643 941145 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so no, without manual casts < 1359932644 894360 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and i reconnected to the bouncer < 1359932656 56345 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so yes it was 3 lines of scroll back at that point < 1359932659 791758 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c int main() { double complex x = I; printf("%f %f\n",creal(x),cimag(x)); return 0;} < 1359932661 615621 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does not compile. < 1359932669 292455 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't have complex.h ): < 1359932675 376559 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull, use #include? < 1359932683 404355 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: It isn't better to use notices because the bots are made for people in #esoteric who have clients that don't follow the spec. < 1359932684 871482 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm tricky with no newlines < 1359932699 395107 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If they were made for people who had IRC clients that followed the spec they would be different. < 1359932721 122469 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help < 1359932721 521919 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​help: General commands: !help, !info, !bf_txtgen. See also !help languages, !help userinterps. You can get help on some commands by typing !help . < 1359932726 334903 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help c < 1359932726 625767 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Sorry, I have no help for c! < 1359932732 123206 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help languages < 1359932732 429972 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​languages: Esoteric: 1l 2l adjust asm axo bch befunge befunge98 bf bf8 bf16 bf32 boolfuck cintercal clcintercal dimensifuck glass glypho haskell kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain perl qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 underload unlambda whirl. Competitive: bfjoust fyb. Other: asm c cxx forth sh. < 1359932740 139849 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help languages c < 1359932740 393415 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Sorry, I have no help for languages_c! < 1359932749 16729 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Whatever... of course they will program them how they want to... Even if I make the suggestion is not the requirement for everyone to use but at least should be considered at least a little bit. < 1359932751 458273 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help perl < 1359932751 713833 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Sorry, I have no help for perl! < 1359932763 37513 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :EgoBot isn't very helpful < 1359932773 746271 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :!info < 1359932773 977691 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​EgoBot is a bot for running programs in esoteric programming languages. If you'd like to add support for your language to EgoBot, check out the source via mercurial at https://codu.org/projects/egobot/hg/ . Cheers and patches (preferably hg bundles) can be sent to Richards@codu.org , PayPal donations can be sent to AKAQuinn@hotmail.com , complaints can be sent to /dev/null < 1359932869 588000 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we complain at /dev/null easily enough < 1359932872 997439 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(NetHack joke) < 1359932876 181942 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://codu.org/projects/egobot/hg/index.cgi/file/ffe171208ae9/multibot_cmds/interps/gcccomp/gcccomp < 1359932879 923752 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :This seems to be some of the srouce < 1359933030 581635 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't find the bit that does the actual IRC interaction < 1359933063 907638 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's multibot < 1359933157 779487 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Specifically the bit that notices I typed !c at the beginning of the line and parses the rest < 1359933176 499250 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you override the pointer aliasing rules in C? < 1359933231 358432 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://codu.org/projects/egobot/hg/index.cgi/file/ffe171208ae9/multibot_cmds/hcmds/c < 1359933347 918936 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What kind of computer keyboard has keys labeled "5 F POISON" and "NUM/ALPHA EDIT"? < 1359933365 939222 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c \n int main() { double complex x = I; printf("%f %f\n",creal(x),cimag(x)); return 0;} < 1359933367 518750 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does not compile. < 1359933376 46265 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c \n int main() { return 0;} < 1359933377 635585 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does not compile. < 1359933582 987275 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I asked before about a mathematical structure which has successor and predecessor, but no designated zero point. Do you know what I intend to use this for? < 1359933622 246907 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: a semigroup? < 1359933637 598405 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or rather, a semigroup that's not a monoid? < 1359933656 357577 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : If they were made for people who had IRC clients that followed the spec they would be different. <-- I don't think that exists < 1359933694 501624 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you are correct that it is a semigroup and is not a monoid, but that is not what I mean, by, what I intend to use this for. < 1359933699 759420 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Don't think what exists? < 1359933716 169013 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Iteration with no fixed point? < 1359933734 119675 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: No. I will tell you I am not using it for a computer program! < 1359933750 986124 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Folding paper? < 1359933754 426473 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No < 1359933866 838431 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :No idea < 1359933966 826200 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :To number the relatives to the prime material plane (which itself is relative!) in Icosahedral Role Playing Game. < 1359933988 571721 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Боже мой < 1359933988 757956 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: to " print" statement should always remember the songs on p2p apps in scheme, besides, was not beyond normal credibility mightn't take his breath away: but i had to choose fnord, but don't < 1359933997 710150 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, i have to hear about the icosahedral role playing game. < 1359934093 197167 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can download it from my computer on port 70 on the selector string "phlog*c_dnd.icosahedral-rpg-i" (without the quotes) followed by CRLF for a bit of information. < 1359934100 776696 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1359934113 958422 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is very mathematical, for example the mathematical definition of a "mana" and a "multimana", of category theory, etc. < 1359934245 800960 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :mana ** mana < 1359934256 510130 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :mana !!!!!!!!!!!! < 1359934603 406816 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal: Don't think what exists? <-- a completely standard conforming irc client < 1359934654 864192 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are also template-spells, which means that some of the choices for the spell are selected when you learn the spell rather than when you cast the spell. < 1359934744 968619 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I try to make my program standard conforming; at least it conforms in ways others don't; and I think there must be others too even if the other ones are no longer maintained or whatever < 1359934835 521396 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A multimana is a multiset of manas. < 1359934940 739290 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A mana is a multiset of the elements (w), (u), (b), (r), and (g). < 1359935097 999328 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A mana X is less than or equal to Y iff the multiset X is a subset of Y. < 1359935358 507968 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1359935385 517687 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1359935762 915923 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The product of manas is their multiset sum. The sum of multimanas is their multiset sum. < 1359935805 270234 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it conforms in ways others don't <-- I guess that about sums up the problem.