< 1362268801 737440 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no < 1362268858 286387 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there an equivalent to raw_input() that takes an entire file? < 1362268890 156952 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run python -c 'print open("bin/welcome").readlines()' < 1362268892 759621 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​['#!/usr/bin/perl -w\n', 'if (defined($_=shift)) { s/ *$//; s/ +/ @ /g; exec "bin/@", $_ . " ? welcome"; } else { exec "bin/?", "welcome"; }\n'] < 1362268906 305295 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :...i meant entire stdin < 1362268912 14708 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: when I showed your colorize script to a python developer he screamed at me and rewrote it in horrror. Wanna see? < 1362268920 314065 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: OKAY < 1362268933 369393 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now that's enthusiasm I want to see! < 1362268933 930565 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not quite mine, fizzie wrote the original < 1362268948 373115 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(share the blame) < 1362268966 394899 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run welcome | python -c 'print open("/dev/stdin").read()' < 1362268971 679183 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) < 1362268992 890526 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :um and read takes all? < 1362269016 465370 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes < 1362269028 377751 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run cat bin/welcome | python -c 'print open("/dev/stdin").read()' < 1362269032 937594 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​#!/usr/bin/perl -w \ if (defined($_=shift)) { s/ *$//; s/ +/ @ /g; exec "bin/@", $_ . " ? welcome"; } else { exec "bin/?", "welcome"; } < 1362269040 928840 :Sanky!~SankyZNC@unaffiliated/sanky QUIT :*.net *.split < 1362269041 78900 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi QUIT :*.net *.split < 1362269041 79066 :Gregor!codu@codu.org QUIT :*.net *.split < 1362269041 79149 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org QUIT :*.net *.split < 1362269041 289406 :hogeyui!~hogeyuiVP@vps.usamimi.biz QUIT :*.net *.split < 1362269042 239723 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess that works < 1362269046 664257 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1362269059 473576 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-d9329b26.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : `run cat bin/welcome | whatever? < 1362269060 548469 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastie.org/private/k564m0ahv1xxuqaumcafg < 1362269063 220735 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1362269064 68688 :hogeyui!~hogeyuiVP@vps.usamimi.biz JOIN :#esoteric < 1362269067 983174 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :uses sys.stdin < 1362269071 413225 :Sanky!~SankyZNC@unaffiliated/sanky JOIN :#esoteric < 1362269073 551075 :Sanky!~SankyZNC@unaffiliated/sanky QUIT :Excess Flood < 1362269081 127161 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how the new ircd goes to great lengths to not tell you which server went down. < 1362269119 876156 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 JOIN :#esoteric < 1362269130 814328 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: that's not equivalent at all < 1362269161 711192 :Sanky!~SankyZNC@unaffiliated/sanky JOIN :#esoteric < 1362269162 35052 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :> comparing length "open('/dev/stdin')" "import sys;sys.stdin" < 1362269163 658944 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : LT < 1362269165 23170 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no! < 1362269179 94356 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :linux wins!!! < 1362269206 554521 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :`lsb_release -a < 1362269208 872643 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No LSB modules are available. \ Distributor ID: Debian \ Description: Debian GNU/Linux \ Release: n/a \ Codename: n/a < 1362269253 147210 :AgonyLang!53802257@gateway/web/freenode/ip.83.128.34.87 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1362269302 630511 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run (echo '#!/usr/bin/env python'; echo 'print (lambda s: "".join(['(s[i].upper() if i%2==0 else s[i].lower()) for i in range(len(s)) ]))(open("/dev/stdin").read())') >bin/CaT; chmod a+x CaT < 1362269304 344023 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash: -c: line 0: syntax error near unexpected token `(' \ bash: -c: line 0: `(echo '#!/usr/bin/env python'; echo 'print (lambda s: "".join(['(s[i].upper() if i%2==0 else s[i].lower()) for i in range(len(s)) ]))(open("/dev/stdin").read())') >bin/CaT; chmod a+x CaT' < 1362269335 534903 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run (echo '#!/usr/bin/env python'; echo 'print (lambda s: "".join([(s[i].upper() if i%2==0 else s[i].lower()) for i in range(len(s)) ]))(open("/dev/stdin").read())') >bin/CaT; chmod a+x CaT < 1362269339 328953 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :chmod: cannot access `CaT': No such file or directory < 1362269350 349851 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`chmod a+x bin/CaT < 1362269351 422529 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :chmod: missing operand after `a+x bin/CaT' \ Try `chmod --help' for more information. < 1362269354 748070 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run chmod a+x bin/CaT < 1362269359 781837 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1362269368 38455 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run welcome | CaT < 1362269369 869725 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1362269370 38087 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :WeLcOmE To tHe iNtErNaTiOnAl hUb fOr eSoTeRiC PrOgRaMmInG LaNgUaGe dEsIgN AnD DePlOyMeNt! FoR MoRe iNfOrMaTiOn, ChEcK OuT OuR WiKi: HtTp://eSoLaNgS.OrG/WiKi/mAiN_PaGe. (fOr tHe oThEr kInD Of eSoTeRiCa, TrY #eSoTeRiC On iRc.dAl.nEt.) < 1362269381 914272 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/WeLcOmE < 1362269383 332533 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​#!/bin/sh \ welcome $@ | python -c "print (lambda s: ''.join([ (s[i].upper() if i%2==0 else s[i].lower()) for i in range(len(s)) ]))(raw_input())" < 1362269420 795441 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run sed -i 's/pyt.*/CaT/' bin/WeLcOmE < 1362269423 746703 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1362269434 712745 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`WeLcOmE atehwa < 1362269436 503424 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :AtEhWa: WeLcOmE To tHe iNtErNaTiOnAl hUb fOr eSoTeRiC PrOgRaMmInG LaNgUaGe dEsIgN AnD DePlOyMeNt! FoR MoRe iNfOrMaTiOn, ChEcK OuT OuR WiKi: HtTp://eSoLaNgS.OrG/WiKi/mAiN_PaGe. (fOr tHe oThEr kInD Of eSoTeRiCa, TrY #eSoTeRiC On iRc.dAl.nEt.) < 1362269474 273800 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo "cantcode: ok what did you need help with?" | CaT < 1362269476 51148 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CaNtCoDe: Ok wHaT DiD YoU NeEd hElP WiTh? < 1362269486 272586 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-d9329b26.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :great < 1362269510 951024 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-d9329b26.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you make a version for zalgo? :) < 1362269538 129676 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm < 1362269548 232929 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't even _see_ zalgo. < 1362269562 384893 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.34.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was wrong with old WeLcOmE < 1362269572 278108 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-d9329b26.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's ok < 1362269573 476413 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :not modular enough < 1362269576 861307 :cantcode!~cantcode@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was just trying if it would parse it < 1362269577 743398 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :haven't you heard of unix philosophy? < 1362269588 636528 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run sed -i 's/$@/"$@"/' bin/WeLcOmE < 1362269593 713866 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1362269601 301284 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run relcome | CaT < 1362269602 737528 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/WeLcOmE < 1362269604 918364 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​#!/bin/sh \ welcome "$@" | CaT < 1362269605 914933 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​03wElCoMe tO ThE09 iNtErNaTiO10NaL 02hUb fOr eSoTeRiC PrOgRaMmInG L07A03NgU07AgE02 dEsIg12n12 AnD DePlOyMeNt!09 fOr m06oRe iNfOrMa06tIoN, 05ChEcK OuT O12U02R10 wIkI: hTtP://Es08o10l13aN08G12S.OrG/W13IkI/MaIn_12PaGe. (f09oR 03tHe oT07H09Er kInD O09F07 eSoTeRiCa, TrY #eSoTeRi14c oN03 iR14C.DaL.07nE10T.)11 < 1362269614 345536 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :See? Beautiful. < 1362269660 666534 :cantcode!~cantcode@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks like a gas leak in a puddle < 1362269718 103094 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1362269722 347975 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :who's that? < 1362269746 203493 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :cantcode: HackEgo only takes commands starting with ` . some of the other bots respond to their name (hi fungot!) < 1362269746 465231 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: he was now a city, and of the dots perhaps a half inch more. the augmented party now began to advance directly toward the invisible building, and had no idea what the curious image could be. < 1362269749 439846 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1362269792 617883 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-d9329b26.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run ls bin < 1362269796 33102 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​? \ @ \ WELCOME \ addquote \ allquotes \ anonlog \ aseen \ botsnack \ bseen \ calc \ CaT \ colorize \ define \ delquote \ elist \ emmental \ emoclew \ emptylist \ etymology \ forget \ fortune \ frink \ fueue \ gaseen \ google \ h \ ?h \ h! \ hatesgeo \ ?hh \ hyfinate \ hyphenate.fi \ interp \ joustreport \ jousturl \ js \ json \ ka < 1362269799 558816 :cantcode!~cantcode@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :.habla espanol? < 1362269820 293879 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :not much spanish here, sorry < 1362269828 490420 :cantcode!~cantcode@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :`oh < 1362269830 6287 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: oh: not found < 1362269854 345769 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run botsnack | colorize | CaT < 1362269857 392503 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​0204:03-13D06 < 1362269865 599559 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-d9329b26.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's it < 1362269876 349233 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oonbotti: you are the only bot i remember who actually parses english, no? < 1362269876 940714 :oonbotti!~oonbotti@91-145-118-87.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Why do you think I am the only bot you remember who actually parses english, no? < 1362269877 397014 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed, it is that. < 1362269907 322138 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oonbotti: habla espanol? < 1362269907 868346 :oonbotti!~oonbotti@91-145-118-87.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Perhaps the answer lies within yourself? < 1362269918 417764 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :¿shouldn't you use ¿ for spanish questions? < 1362269940 460510 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, do spaniards really use ¿ on the internet? < 1362269941 139416 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oonbotti: ¿habla español? < 1362269941 608989 :oonbotti!~oonbotti@91-145-118-87.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Why do you ask that? < 1362269946 544986 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: MAYBE < 1362269948 655737 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :¿ < 1362269964 422186 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :¿, huh, add this to one of our bots < 1362269971 118220 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :¿ looks nice < 1362269980 186724 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :not usually, in my experience (do they use it) < 1362269999 572772 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that i know any actual spaniards, just spanish-speakers from the other half of the world < 1362270001 377911 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's that? ELIZA? < 1362270004 410785 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :¿que es una gasoliniera cerca de aqui? < 1362270007 355362 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure looks like eliza. < 1362270017 413087 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: oonbotti? i think so. < 1362270018 378079 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: irc.dal.net < 1362270030 680521 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :buen < 1362270062 600886 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :HAR HAR HAR < 1362270217 938792 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-d9329b26.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :¿donde esta la zapateria? < 1362270241 372345 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :We need a Parry in here. < 1362270265 317158 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :redio reloj < 1362270540 35088 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :oonbotti: fungot < 1362270540 197151 :oonbotti!~oonbotti@91-145-118-87.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: I see. < 1362270540 549769 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: when i fnord hinted to others about my find, and this was their tragic homecoming. they had, and between each pair of anklets stretched a golden chain that held its fnord to a significance beyond the emotion which it excites and is. for the man who < 1362270636 516934 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-d9329b26.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION nervously jingles his chains < 1362270675 586914 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf wat < 1362270678 369762 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Yes, the ratio of a perfect circle to its radius should be rational. The fact that it is irrational proves that either a. the circle is not perfect, or that b. the space plane the circle occupies is not perfectly flat and consistent." < 1362270716 561022 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION imagines riding a space plane, scratching a circle into the window < 1362270732 513854 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like hagb4rd all right < 1362270762 255740 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I hear Khinchin's constant is rational. < 1362270787 760932 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-d9329b26.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :100% cotton < 1362270797 201268 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-d9329b26.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION unleashed < 1362270857 535937 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't believe it's still not known whether the euler-mascheroni constant is rational < 1362270898 518837 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't believe it's not maccheroni < 1362270925 184573 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you pick a random real number it's probably pretty hard to prove its irrationality. < 1362271089 191790 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-66-225.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't you need the axiom of choice to pick a random real number < 1362271169 153175 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :psh sets < 1362271259 90196 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes but let's face it, what can you prove about a random real number < 1362271280 201994 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"it exists, maybe" < 1362271289 436912 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :depending on how constructivist you are?? < 1362271322 1517 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's real < 1362271329 328818 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it would be better to restrict it to definable numbers... < 1362271367 130841 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the definable numbers are countable and so don't have a uniform probability distribution < 1362271388 425971 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, neither do reals for that matter < 1362271406 245225 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :conclusion: random real numbers don't exist! < 1362271419 48030 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh nooooo < 1362271460 403050 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant like, in [0,1] though. < 1362271631 844138 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :OKAY < 1362271649 761559 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :then the definable numbers still don't have a uniform one, hth < 1362271657 101485 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-d9329b26.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, one of gods biggest problems might have been designing some unpredictability. otherways it eternatity would be so boring. < 1362271673 534567 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1362271693 6060 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's it possible to do a turing complete language with only one bignum variable < 1362271702 89917 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1362271707 281445 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously < 1362271713 3484 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :psh who needs variables < 1362271732 531687 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also what bike said, cf. the lambda calculus < 1362271738 108921 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-66-225.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr, you can encode lists of integers as an integer if you think in terms of product of primes < 1362271744 268636 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambda calculus has variables! < 1362271748 597797 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION was actually thinking combinators < 1362271757 109420 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Schönfinkel in da house < 1362271757 336419 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: fractran < 1362271757 486035 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, just treat it as a bitstream < 1362271759 849752 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :taneb: yeah but that's ok if you have like 2 or 3 variables < 1362271781 618893 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-66-225.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :[1, 2, 3] -> 2^1 * 3^2 * 5^3 = 2250 < 1362271826 188579 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :which essentially does what Taneb says < 1362271829 974717 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-66-225.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr, you can do that for infinite variables because there are infinite primes < 1362271833 181170 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr, we proved sumamoito tc essentially using only one variable < 1362271859 198163 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could also use a more reasonable code but lol math. < 1362271912 550207 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(there were a few others because sumamoito has next to no facilities for actually manipulating that variable, but they wouldn't be needed if you had arithmetic builtins) < 1362271972 472986 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :augh < 1362271994 293216 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the back of my chair went loose and now my neck hurts like hell < 1362272011 145113 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why didn't i listen when they warned me about good posture < 1362272291 773836 :Nisstyre-laptop!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1362272741 481042 :mekeor!~user@dslb-094-216-096-030.pools.arcor-ip.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1362272764 44711 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1362272804 282274 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1362272818 70780 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1362273172 896493 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1362273521 239579 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1362274092 451245 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-66-225.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1362274306 843026 :carado!~user4539@2a01:e35:8b61:e430:6ef0:49ff:fe73:1fd0 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1362274950 191017 :Gregor!codu@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1362275157 400967 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :A random real number isn't even random < 1362275266 230327 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Ribbit < 1362275378 199467 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1362275422 987391 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1362275620 78831 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.34.166 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1362275725 636268 :cantcode!~cantcode@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz NICK :banana_pee < 1362276034 545561 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.34.166 JOIN :#esoteric < 1362276100 455853 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-d9329b26.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://math.stackexchange.com/questions/155156/is-it-generally-accepted-that-if-you-throw-a-dart-at-a-number-line-you-will-neve < 1362276206 633241 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah it's like countably infinite (rationals) vs uncountably infinite (irrationals) < 1362276209 777592 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something like that < 1362276244 930323 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you throw a countably infinite number of darts, what's the probability at least one will hit a rational? < 1362276271 702645 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh that's a hard question < 1362276311 233034 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds like the kind of problem that's fun to complicate unnecessarily. < 1362276316 193549 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does XD < 1362276322 583931 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like complicating the birthday "paradox" by mentioning that birthdays are not evenly distributed. < 1362276333 197208 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am going to arbitrarily say the probability is epsilon. < 1362276335 592529 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :"How strong is your throwing arm?" < 1362276342 722642 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :"How far is the number line from the thrower? < 1362276342 986356 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like how, if you look at the wikipedia article on 'wedge', the actual article on real-life wedges is near the bottom < 1362276348 926246 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :"How big are the darts?" < 1362276357 856791 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : yeah it's like countably infinite (rationals) vs uncountably infinite (irrationals) < 1362276358 7371 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : or something like that < 1362276365 478443 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess my intuition would say that on average one would hit? < 1362276367 86887 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it's mostly measure < 1362276367 776311 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s < 1362276373 305539 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but this seems like a case where intuition will be totally wrong < 1362276397 879357 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but idk if you can have a measure space with both uncountable and countable sets with nonzero measure < 1362276398 835668 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Intuition hates cardinality. < 1362276407 84122 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : if you throw a countably infinite number of darts, what's the probability at least one will hit a rational? <-- 0 hth < 1362276410 770089 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.34.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd say 0 < 1362276418 233664 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :guys i'm not sure this is cardinality... < 1362276436 306816 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, help < 1362276437 824374 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.34.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh why am i reawake < 1362276438 812953 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :essentially rationals and non-transcendental irrationals are countable so they have a surface area of 0 < 1362276456 991016 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fiora, something something something countable products < 1362276464 524222 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: sure you can, you can sum a discrete and a continuous measure easily < 1362276475 672628 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1362276543 608948 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Man, I just want to know how hard proving something rational is. < 1362276553 372403 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :countably infinite number of darts, I don't think you'd hit anything < 1362276582 883889 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you've got countable infinity number of points that can be hit < 1362276596 470321 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: you can also split it up into a continuous and a discrete one < 1362276598 200226 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and countably infinite number of darts that will be thrown < 1362276599 18955 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-d9329b26.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :a few weeks ago i've heard another interesting analogy including darts, chances of hit, and all that improbable (but true) cicumstances leading straight to the possibility of existance. it's that there are two way of the perfect 'hit': one is aiming and hitting by chance.. the other is like throwing the dart somewhere and drowing the mark around the place it hits :> < 1362276608 521603 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :countable infinity * countable infinity = still countable infinity < 1362276610 51094 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike, 7 hards < 1362276638 522626 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: is it proving rational or transcendental that's hard? < 1362276642 894693 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-d9329b26.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*drawing < 1362276645 818757 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought rational wasjust proving it could be expressed as p/q < 1362276647 674819 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know a guy on the street who sells perfect hits < 1362276664 948285 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-d9329b26.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :waiting for my man26$ < 1362276668 123072 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-d9329b26.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in my hand < 1362276679 565883 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd: That sounds like the kind of analogy that a painfully stupid person might use as proof of God or divine design. < 1362276693 646103 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-d9329b26.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really < 1362276697 799532 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fiora: well, we've proved less numbers transcendental, and all rationals are algebraic... < 1362276706 131103 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-d9329b26.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :just some humoristic thoughts < 1362276711 362399 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: yeah, that's what I thought < 1362276713 992183 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :transcendental is the hard one < 1362276717 240011 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw it's simply basic countable additivity of measures, an axiom. mu(A_1 \/ A_2 \/ ...) <= sum mu(A_i) = 0 < 1362276734 794471 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But we still don't know if Euler-Mascheroni or Khinchin are rational, let alone algebraic. < 1362276744 771922 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.34.166 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1362276745 46049 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ok a little more work to show it's subadditive when the sets are not disjoint.) < 1362276756 662482 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: wow @_@ < 1362276767 480898 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, it's weird. < 1362276769 15610 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fiora, the difficulty is simply that proving /anything/ on an arbitrary real number is really hard < 1362276775 363749 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Khinchin is a really weird constant anyway. < 1362276787 207464 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And relevant! Since almost all real numbers conform to it. < 1362276813 898831 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: well, it's not arbitrary, it's computable, right? < 1362276816 825750 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and computable reals are countable < 1362276838 927641 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :uncomputably countable, but yes < 1362276857 166124 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :otoh proving anything on an arbitrary computable number is harder in even messier ways < 1362276859 882540 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant like, countable as in countably infinite right < 1362276866 44977 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The hell does that mean? Obviously it's not recursive but what's that have to do with cardinality < 1362276875 13856 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing? < 1362276886 235060 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just thought it was really weird when i first realised < 1362276895 698543 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it's still r.e. < 1362276905 86430 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I... think < 1362276954 498128 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : Bike: is it proving rational or transcendental that's hard? <-- basically if a number isn't obviously one of those by construction, then discerning them is usually hard. < 1362276968 382991 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, you can just enumerate the set of programs in some languag < 1362276969 659222 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :e < 1362277000 72519 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but discerning the ones that correspond to computable reals is isomorphic to the halting problem, of course < 1362277024 869973 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I guess it's like, proving things /not/ rational is hard <.< < 1362277066 854015 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and proving things rational is hard if you cannot find the particular rational they're equal to < 1362277079 229820 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's why people like me are still roaming the streets. < 1362277092 960462 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :searching. searching for the rational numbers hiding in the dark alleys < 1362277112 351020 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :passing out illegal primes < 1362277112 974531 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I was thinking along the lines of "no one can prove I'm not rational". < 1362277116 644167 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that works too. < 1362277122 846166 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone really care whether khinchin's constant is irrational < 1362277146 580727 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :think of the implications, Jafet < 1362277152 518275 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :think of the implications < 1362277158 588136 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thinks. < 1362277189 346837 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not all is lost, though! At least the Euler-Macaroni constant is computable. < 1362277191 924980 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :( save the implications! ) < 1362277228 365070 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the euler-macarena constant is real < 1362277237 94100 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you mean Euler-Mascheroni? < 1362277238 579768 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does a program that computes the euler-macaroni constant consist of spaghetti code? < 1362277262 318828 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wikipedia doesn't have Euler-Macaroni. < 1362277290 282717 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: If I want to call it Euler-Macaroni, then by FSM, I will! < 1362277292 625317 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :No one can stop me! < 1362277325 58881 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: the euler-mascara constant isn't any random person's to name < 1362277345 370577 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I am not trying to stop you. < 1362277345 691796 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :istr my analysis notes saying we only know the euler-mechanic constant to 20 digits < 1362277358 421170 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which seems to be very, very wrong < 1362277360 866961 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: "it would be really weird" < 1362277376 9259 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was true in... 1809 or so? < 1362277377 719818 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-d9329b26.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :your analysis notes? < 1362277382 25154 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I see right through your Euler-Masquerade! < 1362277384 374213 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: the wikipedia introduction has 50... < 1362277390 451412 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd: notes from a class on analysis < 1362277396 704035 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-d9329b26.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sieged by ignorant misanthropes spitting words < 1362277398 545762 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it says we know 28,844,489,545 as of 2009? XD < 1362277402 139678 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-d9329b26.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :writing songs that voices never share < 1362277418 212890 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have ruined that song for me forever < 1362277419 365452 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fiora: eh, what's nine orders of magnitude between friends < 1362277424 123921 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover was probably thinking about bruno's constant < 1362277458 466729 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :bruno's constant? < 1362277464 679425 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Do you like to see things that aren't necessarily there? < 1362277505 77086 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Like a hippopotamus? < 1362277514 408988 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Oh, are you talking about modal logic here? < 1362277544 286584 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that case, have you ever seen a thing that was necessarily there? < 1362277544 995163 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :¬□there, or something? < 1362277565 422586 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I.e. ◇¬there? < 1362277593 293529 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I mean you. < 1362277621 563122 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You mean me, and I mean modal logic. < 1362277627 120685 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :And surely meaning is transitive? < 1362277666 684127 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1362277702 287792 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello to you too, monqy < 1362277704 896845 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :itym transcendental < 1362277769 303315 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: You should invent a crazy new kind of modal logic that uses crazy new symbols. < 1362277778 457810 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe things like 25C9 FISHEYE [◉] < 1362277778 607884 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :25CA LOZENGE [◊] < 1362277877 796531 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fisheye logic? < 1362277884 867131 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe logic for optics. < 1362277908 535695 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :◯ ○ < 1362277913 114800 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :See the difference between those two? < 1362277923 198516 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of them is LARGE < 1362277926 134060 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-d9329b26.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :size matters < 1362277946 483229 :Jon1!~jon@CPE-121-216-164-246.lnse2.ken.bigpond.net.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1362277969 126052 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd: Have you ever said anything useful? < 1362278004 34368 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's yet to be observed < 1362278007 310250 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome Jon1 < 1362278016 683382 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jon1: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) < 1362278090 179864 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-d9329b26.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: have ever made someone happy? < 1362278090 369483 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :`relcome Phantom_Hoover < 1362278095 531307 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​13Phantom_Hoover: W05elcome to the02 interna08tional hub 07f11or 08eso04ter05ic p13rogra06mming language design and deployment! For more 05i14nf08ormation, check10 out 12ou10r w12iki: 04htt04p://es04olangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (13For the other kind of esoterica, t09ry04 #e11s02oter13ic on i03r11c.dal.net.) < 1362278123 145233 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd, on this channel, at leasy, he has a considerable lead on you. < 1362278127 178437 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*at least < 1362278138 795763 :Jon1!~jon@CPE-121-216-164-246.lnse2.ken.bigpond.net.au PART :#esoteric < 1362278151 122608 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-d9329b26.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. i follow. < 1362278158 100693 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-d9329b26.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you lead < 1362278171 570544 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-d9329b26.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hope you have an idea of the next goal to achieve < 1362278188 994444 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tell me, hagb4rd, do you actually think all the shit that comes out of your mouth is deep, or are you just posturing < 1362278197 813380 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-d9329b26.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :cmon phanti < 1362278220 26637 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-d9329b26.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :have a cake! < 1362278252 672742 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-d9329b26.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shit that comes out of my mouth < 1362278257 855695 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-d9329b26.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :my dear < 1362278258 156538 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :how good are compilers at optimizing loop test conditions? < 1362278290 965450 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :438 points good. < 1362278338 332778 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, like, what specifically about them? < 1362278416 377726 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, trying to count down to avoid cmp at the end and stuff? < 1362278470 889274 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa,dude, look at all these TLDs: http://www.iana.org/domains/special < 1362278495 24281 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :no more like guessing that your routine is going to loop like 8 times in one go < 1362278521 771820 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean, unrolling? < 1362278548 349124 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The easy way to figure out how good a compiler is at optimizing a specific piece of code is to compile that piece of code and see what it does. < 1362278620 527598 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1362278642 627541 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://דוגמה.טעסט/ < 1362278659 429554 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :wondering about this because I'm working on a, uh, fairly interesting CPU arch < 1362278668 59149 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which one :o < 1362278698 196617 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you have any better documentation of Yamaha OPM? < 1362278709 696001 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, devanagari? < 1362278728 692161 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one where iteration 1 of a loop is done on core 1, iteration 2 is on core 2, iteration 3 is on core 3, iteration 4 is on core 4, iteration 5 is on core 5, iteration 6 is on core 6, iteration 7 is on core 7, iteration 8 is on core 8, iteration 9 is on core 1, iteration 10 is on core 2... < 1362278734 769540 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, this is a real cpu arch? < 1362278752 547813 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :not yet < 1362278753 76586 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Powered by MEDIAWIKI" < 1362278755 544722 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :.... oh < 1362278760 262912 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's definitely doable < 1362278762 941630 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :um. I don't think you can meaningfully ask < 1362278769 550608 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a compiler does on an arch that doesn't exist <.< < 1362278772 553314 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :>.> < 1362278787 875288 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you can, unless the compiler also does not exist < 1362278795 881087 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then it is less meaningful < 1362278834 995902 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose it was a more general "what sorts of loopy behaviors are compilers good at recognizing?" sort of question. < 1362278837 883808 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo : hmm... I remember being told that if you try to change synth params on the fly, OPM (or was it OPN2?) can crash < 1362278838 48817 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well guessing at loop invariants is an optimization thing dating from the 60s < 1362278841 483688 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :If your CPU has eight cores and fully coherent shared cache, you are doomed to fail in any case. < 1362278847 463426 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or 50s < 1362278895 399498 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :50s = 60s < 1362278896 52909 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :jafet : it's more like 8-way SSE / 8-issue superscalar < 1362278906 243322 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :might cut it down to 4-way < 1362278910 558224 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :8-issue superscalar already exists, I think < 1362278913 577160 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's some TI DSPs that do that < 1362278938 860339 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the nice thing is that the design will be a lot less complicated than some of those < 1362278959 816463 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, are you sure? some ofthose DSPs use less than a watt and are miniscule < 1362278973 721965 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, like, they're not complicated < 1362278996 286191 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah and you have to write for them in ASM? < 1362279006 560106 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so... < 1362279022 259275 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.ti.com/lsds/ti/dsp/c6000_dsp/c64x/products.page < 1362279053 611747 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/sprs371f/sprs371f.pdf < 1362279136 128920 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: Yes, I think I read something about such things doing so too, but still, I have not found any good documentation for OPM. < 1362279161 792646 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fiora: hmm, that looks fairly close to what the crusoe did < 1362279191 950410 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :same kind of 8 unit pre-issued super-superscalar vliw design < 1362279240 567421 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Quit: Arc_Koen < 1362279295 660153 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fiora : that's a DSP < 1362279304 986928 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :essentially 2 cores bundled together < 1362279319 290647 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you really write efficient code for that in C++? :D < 1362279351 289504 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it's two cores? < 1362279365 582248 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TMS320C64x doesn't say anything about multicore at least < 1362279378 545878 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I see. the two sets of functional units. < 1362279410 466564 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah so it's not multicore but it's two units < 1362279472 946459 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1453718/ti-dsp-programming-is-c-fast-enough-or-do-i-need-an-assembler I found this I guess < 1362279557 605718 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah so you probably have to use intrinsics < 1362279573 107618 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the intrinsics are just for the built-in SIMD stuff < 1362279578 626804 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :like the 2x16-bit and 4x8-bit? < 1362279588 157991 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1362279594 850211 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :since, like, you can't really write that in C < 1362279604 997729 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well anyways < 1362279617 77990 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the design I have beats that < 1362279622 521233 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can vectorize any loop < 1362279648 114813 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as you delay the write operations to the next cycle < 1362279710 998613 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is why it has to have special registers for data feedback from iteration to iteration < 1362279728 769568 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and some opcodes to "lock" memory addresses until the real writeback < 1362279743 735120 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but other than that it's just a normal RISC < 1362279945 414396 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, you only even just need a decoder for the first core < 1362279969 666863 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and just use delayed versions of the same instructions next cycle on the next core < 1362280072 323153 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the point is to get performance similar to crazy superscalar RISCs < 1362280086 157642 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but for much less complexity < 1362280103 822674 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and without the severe restrictions on datapaths etc you see in DSPs < 1362280514 880003 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1362280605 878783 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-d9329b26.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this sounds interesting. would you mind to share a look on your solution/code/paper? (as long as it's not finished and sold/open source) < 1362280727 900107 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1362280734 563793 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1362281001 726477 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1362281035 805750 :tswett_!~quassel@ec2-23-23-86-149.compute-1.amazonaws.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1362281340 729212 :GeoffreyVanSchau!~Error418@d118-75-200-47.try.wideopenwest.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1362281441 506597 :tswett!~quassel@unaffiliated/tswett QUIT :*.net *.split < 1362281441 656662 :myndzi!myndzi@2600:3c01::f03c:91ff:fedf:3d4e QUIT :*.net *.split < 1362281883 149073 :tswett_!~quassel@ec2-23-23-86-149.compute-1.amazonaws.com NICK :tswett < 1362282216 539394 :GeoffreyVanSchau!~Error418@d118-75-200-47.try.wideopenwest.com QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1362282917 281090 :myndzi!myndzi@2600:3c01::f03c:91ff:fedf:3d4e JOIN :#esoteric < 1362283666 931121 :mekeor!~user@dslb-094-216-096-030.pools.arcor-ip.net QUIT :Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs) < 1362284660 597079 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1362285524 338496 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :back from supper < 1362285633 866251 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd : I have a little bit of what code would look like on it < 1362285686 132023 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.com/eCMNNxiF < 1362285742 498641 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't use feedback registers or anti-alias memory operations tho (so it would probably have to be written as ASM or with intrinsics) < 1362287050 117617 :GOMADWarrior!~Regis@187.65.192.73 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1362287134 381579 :TeruFSX!~TeruFSX@65-128-137-85.mpls.qwest.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1362287182 72085 :TeruFSX!~TeruFSX@65-128-137-85.mpls.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1362287475 764336 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1362287776 801849 :Nisstyre-laptop!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre JOIN :#esoteric < 1362287959 39191 :dessos_!~dessos@c-174-60-176-249.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1362288016 237473 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1362288054 210010 :monqy_!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1362288094 675619 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1362288099 732983 :monqy_!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net NICK :monqy < 1362288257 640009 :Gracenotes_!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1362288294 340095 :kallisti_!~eris@168.28.136.16 JOIN :#esoteric < 1362288393 773663 :quintopi1!~quintopia@74.117.159.204 JOIN :#esoteric < 1362288423 113430 :dessos!~dessos@c-174-60-176-249.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1362288423 369876 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1362288452 258829 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1362288452 543482 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1362288452 864111 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1362288482 930831 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523 < 1362289396 876637 :Sanky!~SankyZNC@unaffiliated/sanky QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1362289414 495170 :Sanky!~SankyZNC@unaffiliated/sanky JOIN :#esoteric < 1362289416 479496 :Sanky!~SankyZNC@unaffiliated/sanky QUIT :Excess Flood < 1362289445 17882 :Sanky!~SankyZNC@unaffiliated/sanky JOIN :#esoteric < 1362289708 491763 :ssue_!uid5338@gateway/web/irccloud.com/session JOIN :#esoteric < 1362289928 142513 :SirCmpwn_!~SirCmpwn@c-75-70-167-247.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1362289954 401724 :ssue!uid5338@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zgjdddcxrfbzezdy QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1362289954 672590 :glogbackup!~glogbacku@64.31.59.246 QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1362289956 196244 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :*.net *.split < 1362289956 349614 :Nisstyre-laptop!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre QUIT :*.net *.split < 1362289956 504594 :surma!uid6361@c-base/crew/surma QUIT :*.net *.split < 1362289956 662029 :oonbotti!~oonbotti@91-145-118-87.bb.dnainternet.fi QUIT :*.net *.split < 1362289956 811637 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com QUIT :*.net *.split < 1362289956 961091 :SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@unaffiliated/sircmpwn QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1362289959 101758 :ssue_!uid5338@gateway/web/irccloud.com/session QUIT :Changing host < 1362289959 251144 :ssue_!uid5338@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-kuciruqimmyjevfl JOIN :#esoteric < 1362289960 513853 :SirCmpwn_!~SirCmpwn@c-75-70-167-247.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Changing host < 1362289960 664025 :SirCmpwn_!~SirCmpwn@unaffiliated/sircmpwn JOIN :#esoteric < 1362289962 871384 :ssue_!uid5338@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-kuciruqimmyjevfl NICK :ssue < 1362289975 638946 :SirCmpwn_!~SirCmpwn@unaffiliated/sircmpwn NICK :SirCmpwn < 1362290213 124384 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1362290213 273911 :Nisstyre-laptop!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre JOIN :#esoteric < 1362290213 274067 :surma!uid6361@c-base/crew/surma JOIN :#esoteric < 1362290213 274145 :oonbotti!~oonbotti@91-145-118-87.bb.dnainternet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1362290213 274225 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1362290271 651480 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1362290861 833320 :ogrom!~del@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1362291389 90311 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ralist < 1362291390 391295 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ralist: not found < 1362291429 503804 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooooo < 1362291515 532623 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :SirCmpwn: Hmm. Where in CO are ye? < 1362291566 528864 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1362291667 941140 :dessos!~dessos@c-174-60-176-249.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1362291679 471372 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Red Alert 4 is coming out? < 1362291709 539614 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sam Hughes posted a new story in Ra < 1362291714 905704 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://qntm.org/ra < 1362291810 613979 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`qlnitsmt < 1362291812 378798 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: qlnitsmt: not found < 1362291829 107774 :dessos_!~dessos@c-174-60-176-249.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1362291970 41888 :dessos_!~dessos@c-174-60-176-249.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1362291975 16267 :dessos!~dessos@c-174-60-176-249.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1362291992 202768 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :theory: it is substantially easier for something to be awesome if it has no purpose other than awesomeness < 1362291993 138784 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, the Other Sam Hughes. < 1362292002 534637 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :agree/disagree? < 1362292040 739575 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Other Sam Hughes? < 1362292047 811309 :md_5!~md_5@mcdevs/trusted/md-5 QUIT :Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in < 1362292070 971439 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I would imagine the opposite. < 1362292076 430084 :md_5!md_5@mcdevs/trusted/md-5 JOIN :#esoteric < 1362292079 739214 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that makes sense. Although I don't know if that's true in all cases. Certainly in a game like Worms, Armageddon is awesome but near useless < 1362292096 449133 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1362292117 968638 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Armageddon sends asteroids that destroys most of the land and kills most things, friendly or not) < 1362292124 800498 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the example I'm thinking of, is adding a background character to a gameshow, who does nothing but watch, and make a map of the activity, and can /teleport/ < 1362292135 981006 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find this to be very awesome, despite being completely pointless < 1362292151 487671 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, all the things he could do with teleportation ability, and he chooses to do that < 1362292162 362038 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh good i thought you were going to make them be the character representing the viewer < 1362292162 764990 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also he never does anything with the map, AFAICT < 1362292177 889393 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: hmm, well it's not my character < 1362292184 856802 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Searching for Armageddon about a game called Worms Armageddon is kind of difficult < 1362292185 919340 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps he represents the viewer? it seems unlikely though < 1362292197 456084 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: this is actually the reason Ubuntu versions have such weird names < 1362292205 994456 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm imagining a teleporting nepeta < 1362292219 648803 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's a nepeta? < 1362292223 40281 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fiora: I had nothing to do with it! < 1362292227 16739 :SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@unaffiliated/sircmpwn PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: haven't been highlighted in here in a while < 1362292234 255759 :SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@unaffiliated/sircmpwn PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I'm in Colorado Springs, near Garden of the Gods < 1362292238 549655 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :…what's a Cmpwn? < 1362292245 359734 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, a character in Homestuck. < 1362292247 670616 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1362292250 196685 :SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@unaffiliated/sircmpwn PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: sex toy < 1362292253 376853 :SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@unaffiliated/sircmpwn PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: really? < 1362292257 505299 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :SirCmpwn: Huh. < 1362292258 763161 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Apparently related to me. < 1362292261 194368 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :SirCmpwn: I'm in Falcon. < 1362292261 895325 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? shachaf < 1362292264 114675 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf sprø som selleri and cosplays Nepeta Leijon on weekends. < 1362292265 279036 :SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@unaffiliated/sircmpwn PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: well done < 1362292282 657034 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? ais523 < 1362292284 896410 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Agent "Iä" Smith is an alien with a strange allergy to avian body covering, which he is trying to retroactively prevent from ever evolving. < 1362292290 622796 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now to wonder if I know you in meatspace. < 1362292303 737526 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :she makes charts of all the relationships of the other characters and updates it as the story goes on < 1362292312 422951 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fiora: oh, that makes sense < 1362292320 322673 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's also kind-of awesome < 1362292321 416546 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but isn't that involved in the main plot) < 1362292322 671612 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I don't do that. < 1362292330 826034 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not for #esoteric, anyway. < 1362292334 63736 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should. < 1362292347 180231 :SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@unaffiliated/sircmpwn PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: aka Drew DeVault < 1362292352 598435 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :SirCmpwn: Would you happen to know a "Josiah Worcester"? < 1362292358 129384 :SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@unaffiliated/sircmpwn PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1362292358 721018 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmm, not really. < 1362292367 482369 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: isn't that pikhq's real name? < 1362292373 660273 :SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@unaffiliated/sircmpwn PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only time I've been in Falcon was for a marching band competetion in high school < 1362292376 196575 :SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@unaffiliated/sircmpwn PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was a while ago < 1362292380 637487 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm kind-of amused I recognised it < 1362292386 566033 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :haven't seen it for years < 1362292390 279652 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100727230124/mspaintadventures/images/1/13/02295.gif <-- the 'shipping wall' < 1362292418 623344 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm… other things that are unexpectedly awesome: in An Untitled Story, very few of the characters have names < 1362292442 356205 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :At this point I am confused. < 1362292444 110078 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@wn awesome < 1362292444 994953 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*** "awesome" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)" < 1362292445 159398 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :awesome < 1362292445 308781 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : adj 1: inspiring awe or admiration or wonder; "New York is an < 1362292445 308985 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : amazing city"; "the Grand Canyon is an awe-inspiring < 1362292445 309160 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : sight"; "the awesome complexity of the universe"; "this < 1362292447 62970 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[4 @more lines] < 1362292451 476248 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's one character (a shuriken-throwing ninja) who appears exactly twice, makes a grand appearance that's hard to exist, and although his name is never said in-game, it's apparently "Shakespeare" < 1362292452 313395 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :awe-full < 1362292456 361192 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes, that's my real name. < 1362292461 789735 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I am Josiah "pikhq" Worcester. < 1362292462 364700 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that makes him rather more awesome than he would be otherwise < 1362292479 230549 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: SDA grammar? (SDA always presents nicknames like that, it looks weird) < 1362292488 796216 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :SirCmpwn: Anyways. I'm a student at UCCS. < 1362292492 364346 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: SDA? < 1362292497 384093 :SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@unaffiliated/sircmpwn PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: there's a UCCS in falcon? < 1362292498 143458 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :speedrunning site < 1362292503 31195 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. That one. < 1362292508 214374 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"University of Colorado Colorado Springs"? < 1362292510 284097 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :SirCmpwn: No, I drive the 15 miles. < 1362292513 264358 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do they actually call it that? < 1362292516 563297 :SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@unaffiliated/sircmpwn PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: fancy < 1362292517 967159 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Yes. < 1362292519 394600 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, the girl with the blue helmet in the red circle in that chart is Nepeta < 1362292532 603749 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :SirCmpwn: Though there *is* a PPCC campus out here now. < 1362292535 258107 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: It's like looking into a cosmirror. < 1362292541 775703 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(She's in that relationship, and also wants to be in the relationship that has her and the guy with the Cancer symbol) < 1362292542 423742 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's kinda pathetic, but nevertheless. < 1362292544 200473 :SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@unaffiliated/sircmpwn PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: feel free to give me a ring sometime and I'll buy you a beer, or your age bracket's equivalent of beer < 1362292557 519524 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My age bracket's equivalent of beer is beer, so. < 1362292574 748969 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the sentence can be optimized < 1362292575 316957 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :A ring? Isn't it a bit early for that? < 1362292578 521443 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sadly just started on some meds that scream "don't use alcohol" though. < 1362292589 588429 :SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@unaffiliated/sircmpwn PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( what ails you? < 1362292591 248875 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fiora, look at the probably not relationship < 1362292603 678332 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depression. ... So, twice bad idea actually. < 1362292630 141840 :SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@unaffiliated/sircmpwn PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll buy you a whore, then < 1362292635 114211 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I recommend not trying to implement Feather as a depression cure < 1362292640 600303 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried once, I thought it might help < 1362292641 68723 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: No plans to. < 1362292644 609408 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead I ended up depressed /and/ confused < 1362292657 54427 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ironically yeah <.< took 3 years though < 1362292659 148364 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :SirCmpwn: Meh. < 1362292661 822098 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i thought he meant, "not trying to implement feather" as a depression cure < 1362292671 420005 :SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@unaffiliated/sircmpwn PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hear sex is good for sadness < 1362292675 190318 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1362292680 347728 :SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@unaffiliated/sircmpwn PRIVMSG #esoteric :though not suitable as a long term cure < 1362292680 619219 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but not really for depression. < 1362292694 405818 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"trying not to implement Feather" is a combination that hasn't been tried, perhaps? < 1362292702 353973 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the usual state of affairs is "trying to not implement Feather" < 1362292713 406753 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and occasionally, "trying to implement not-Feather" < 1362292728 184277 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alas, sex with girlfriend does not exactly do anything about feelings of self-loathing. < 1362292732 415300 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do I tell the difference between sadness because of my situation and depression? < 1362292744 443196 :SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@unaffiliated/sircmpwn PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: have you tried auto-fellatio? < 1362292758 359883 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :SirCmpwn: I am insufficiently flexible. < 1362292764 370706 :SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@unaffiliated/sircmpwn PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: :( < 1362292778 559473 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: fwiw, as far as I can tell the best cure for depression is having something to achieve < 1362292794 201679 :SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@unaffiliated/sircmpwn PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently it's medical advice hour in #esoteric < 1362292802 13546 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: doc tells you you're crazy < 1362292811 813398 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :is "seeing a psychologist" on that list? < 1362292833 293191 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which list < 1362292833 457887 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yeah, um, getting out of bed is quite an accomplishment. < 1362292837 371504 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :do we have an `mlist too < 1362292840 117398 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is "seeing a philosopher" on the other list? < 1362292845 587925 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`mlist < 1362292847 139501 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: mlist: not found < 1362292856 141331 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seeing a psychologist sounds like a bad idea to me. < 1362292861 894975 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: that sounds more like flu than depression < 1362292868 391549 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then again, what if I have an anti-psychologist neurosis? < 1362292870 177694 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, psychiatrist would be better < 1362292873 534955 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And anyways, I've just *started* medical treatment for it. < 1362292881 508942 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Psychiatrist sounds like an even worse idea to me. < 1362292883 302202 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's pretty common with depression too. lack of energy and stuff < 1362292884 76715 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, medical treatment sounds like it might help < 1362292914 161632 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :No! Philosopher would be better, unless you are really religious in which case you should go to church instead. < 1362292915 988795 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :People who have it really really really bad can like, stay up for days straight starting at walls. < 1362292925 919436 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fun times < 1362292933 155856 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Depression is rather different from merely being sad. Utter lack of energy and motivation, inability to enjoy things... < 1362292952 666571 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you missed an opportunity to call it anhedonia < 1362292957 176404 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did. < 1362292959 477100 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :good enough word that you should use it as much as possible imo < 1362292962 625316 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Tis. < 1362292970 640480 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Particularly if it's applicable. < 1362292977 369555 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: indeed < 1362292985 665556 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anhedonia may be the worst thing. < 1362292987 482979 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yeah, Bike's word is indeed good < 1362292991 115044 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, um, I don't think philosophy can fix brain chemical balance issues < 1362293016 4587 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: it could change the way you react to them < 1362293021 559375 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I also don't think so, but it is worth a try < 1362293021 883888 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know i'm not sure how to feel about the "chemical imbalance" thing < 1362293044 639410 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the one hand, it helps dissociate it from the common "just stop being sad" reaction. on the other, it's not very accurate and biopsychiatry by itself isn't so great < 1362293070 544071 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also had not seen the word "biopsychiatry" before < 1362293070 734682 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it vary from case to case? < 1362293076 917697 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a *lot* closer than many misconceptions of how depression works, though. < 1362293077 964805 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION invents molecular philosophy < 1362293087 909391 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: how about "depression is a brain state with negative consequences that is often difficult to escape through normal means"? < 1362293095 640539 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is a more accurate description? < 1362293098 471381 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fiora: Sounds complicated. < 1362293104 940055 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In that clearly depression is an unusual and tricky brain state. < 1362293109 171233 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Probably what Fiora said, I guess. < 1362293128 158678 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm imagining, like. a gradient descent search getting caught in a valley < 1362293129 552805 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1362293130 757189 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a dork < 1362293131 781708 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :biopsychiatry is just psychiatry from a biological view; you're insane because your neurotransmitters don't bond dopamine the right way, or w/e < 1362293153 377683 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately chemical treatment alone isn't always effective. < 1362293171 235455 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you don't have anything to do, then do something else. < 1362293187 156583 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :molecular philosophy is, like, do atoms have rights? < 1362293194 683500 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if not, why not? < 1362293203 966559 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I was thinking mereology. < 1362293211 70793 :SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@unaffiliated/sircmpwn PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think anything capable of asking for civil rights should be granted them < 1362293215 700696 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you replace every atom of someone with another atom, when do they lose their rights? < 1362293216 119812 :SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@unaffiliated/sircmpwn PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, tell me, have atoms asked? < 1362293223 563947 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1362293224 913537 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :large groups of atoms have asked! < 1362293225 507112 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :main = putStrLn "May I have civil rights?" < 1362293225 670371 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :bike : for some mental illnesses that's the best treatment we have I think < 1362293242 136940 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :SirCmpwn: Well, yes, I think so too. But still, you must think of it more thoroughly. < 1362293248 933712 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: usually some kind of therapy along with drugs helps. but as you said (or, asked) it varies from case to case. < 1362293261 23909 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, atom will have a rights to be atomic, for example. < 1362293269 500738 :SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@unaffiliated/sircmpwn PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: >civil rights < 1362293272 565805 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: Be nice if it were... Simple, easy cure for being in a state where "pleasure" is nontrivial would be nice. < 1362293280 724967 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: was that a pun? < 1362293281 146922 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :They don't do other things, so the other rights simply is not applicable; therefore you don't answer yes or no. < 1362293283 924370 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fiora: but can you really say atoms are "groups" in any meaningful sense ehhhhh?? < 1362293295 50706 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I don't know. < 1362293336 818719 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: and on the other side, http://depressioncomix.tumblr.com/image/41893397817 < 1362293341 286009 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: Everything is "groups" of stuff simply defined as being stuff by the division we are using into physical objects; that is not the only way to do it! All the universe is one thing all together. < 1362293349 75881 :SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@unaffiliated/sircmpwn PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: well, you can offer civil rights, even if they are incapable of using them < 1362293374 261117 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :SirCmpwn: It wouldn't be useful or even meaningful though. < 1362293378 595530 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: Mmm. I recently was linked to that tumblr. It is... rather too applicable. < 1362293379 644991 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait I just noticed the topic < 1362293381 766866 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whose fault is that? < 1362293393 230079 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike, :( < 1362293400 187306 :SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@unaffiliated/sircmpwn PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: doesn't matter. If they ask, they'll be offered them. They needn't take advantage of it < 1362293401 349686 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: i know, right :( < 1362293402 406625 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not even angry, I don't think it technically breaks any rules < 1362293403 465879 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should they have the rights? Yes, but since it isn't even meaningful to say does have such rights, it is not yes. < 1362293404 537961 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just isn't useful < 1362293415 122367 :SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@unaffiliated/sircmpwn PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: also: collectively, atoms are capable of taking advantage of civil rights < 1362293424 498181 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think zzo38's viewpoint makes a lot of sense here < 1362293429 309444 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: the funny thing is, the comic's by the same guy as did Sexy Losers. < 1362293444 226145 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :SirCmpwn: O, yes, of course you can do that, I suppose. But *if they ask* it means. Really you consider the large object consisting of many atoms, which is ask. < 1362293450 811118 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike, was he depressed? I remember he stopped doing them < 1362293455 924671 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If they ask individually, is they aren't. < 1362293456 825983 :SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@unaffiliated/sircmpwn PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: but, more to the point, anyone capable of asking for civil rights is also capable of, say, casting a vote < 1362293465 744547 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it was, it would be meaningful! < 1362293478 568211 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it cannot civil rights then it cannot ask, either. < 1362293484 630059 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: He is, but I don't think that's why he stopped. I think he does Sexy Losers ish comics occasionally on another tumblr actually. < 1362293487 795720 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :SirCmpwn: casting votes can be automated very easily < 1362293510 969299 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :does that mean computers need rights? < 1362293515 261092 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :SirCmpwn: Yes, that is true. < 1362293521 592741 :SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@unaffiliated/sircmpwn PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: just one example. The point here is that someone capable of communicating their desire for civil rights is capable of communicating their opinions as offered by those rights < 1362293527 85928 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But not really relevant, until you figure out the first thing, really? < 1362293529 251379 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(arguably, all evolutions in voting methods have been attempts to avoid the automation of voting) < 1362293538 289115 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, yeah, SirCmpwn. Appreciate the offer of beer, but ATM I've got a stock of such that I intend not to drink because I do not want to see how fluoxetine and ethanol interact. < 1362293547 614731 :SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@unaffiliated/sircmpwn PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: before you say "I'll write a script to ask for civil rights", know that I'll find you and slap the shit out of you < 1362293549 728664 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Computers are what they are programmed to be. < 1362293569 358235 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :SirCmpwn: you can write a script to print words to the screen, but I don't know if it would understand what it was saying < 1362293572 926632 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does mathematical formulas have the right to vote *by themself*? You cannot easily count all the possible ones... < 1362293579 204439 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you can write a script to request civil rights for the author of the script < 1362293579 354031 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :voting is pointless anyway haven't you all heard of arrow's theorem !!! < 1362293589 626461 :SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@unaffiliated/sircmpwn PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, if sentient computing is achieved, those computers should be granted civil rights < 1362293604 464479 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: I have, it doesn't really prove that voting is pointless though < 1362293616 992624 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :SirCmpwn, didn't I do that just above? < 1362293618 988872 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, it just proves that except in ideal circumstances, all voting methods have defects < 1362293623 841519 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The thing that you said you'd slap ais523 for? < 1362293634 949567 :SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@unaffiliated/sircmpwn PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I didn't notice, but I'd slap you over it, too < 1362293636 404527 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: you've been slapped down by the channel often enough already < 1362293660 322565 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, I /still/ don't recommend attempting to give your girlfriend cancer < 1362293670 125938 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm forced to agree. < 1362293673 572171 :SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@unaffiliated/sircmpwn PRIVMSG #esoteric : But, yeah, SirCmpwn. Appreciate the offer of beer, but ATM I've got a stock of such that I intend not to drink because I do not want to see how fluoxetine and ethanol interact. < 1362293679 103382 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(backstory: some of the other members of the channel recommended that as a joke, AFAICT; I disagreed with them) < 1362293684 61247 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1362293685 41977 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has not been paying attention to this room enough. < 1362293686 867336 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have room with people who don't know Chinese but will follow all the instructions given to them to make an answer to a question in Chinese (like ELIZA and some computer programs, but completely by hand), are they Chinese? < 1362293687 16790 :SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@unaffiliated/sircmpwn PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: alright, no problem. Swap beer out for "social gathering" if you wish < 1362293691 382467 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(further backstory: it's not entirely clear whether Sgeo actually has a girlfriend) < 1362293703 31313 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :SirCmpwn: Very well then, sounds reasonable. < 1362293719 543811 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But really you must consider mathematics. Can a mathematics think? < 1362293736 198679 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a girlfriend as of more recently than that occurred. < 1362293738 481352 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck, i can't even joke off of what zzo38 said, because I just KNOW some psephologist has considered how elections would work in the presence of countably infinite voters. < 1362293740 338324 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want to ask if a computer can think; I want to ask if a mathematics can think! < 1362293760 1631 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :('psephologist' is a good word too btw) < 1362293762 125188 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: what's a psephologist? < 1362293769 512700 :SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@unaffiliated/sircmpwn PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I suppose a sufficiently complex algorithm could think, but only with the assistance of a human interpreter, whose skills would be far too lacking to manage it < 1362293772 247058 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yeah, you've come up with three words I didn't know in less than an hour < 1362293779 271040 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: someone who studies voting systems < 1362293798 312985 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders what his talking-here stats have looked like in the past couple years, but can't be bothered to write the script for that. < 1362293798 997621 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or similar things < 1362293811 668099 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie may have those stats to hand already < 1362293814 313726 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I think fizzie made some fancy-looking graphs. < 1362293816 267311 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :he likes doing those sorts of stats < 1362293823 118361 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something like fetching the logs and grepping the logs to generate a histogram, but *eh* < 1362293842 158718 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :SirCmpwn: Are you sure? Well, the same algorithm could be put into a computer, although possibly it would be too complicated to put into the computer, too. Even so, some things may be too large for the universe, and/or can have mathematical formulas that nobody has figured out yet. < 1362293862 194635 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrow%27s_impossibility_theorem#Infinitely_many_individuals < 1362293868 647790 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dammit. Dammit! < 1362293874 592516 :SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@unaffiliated/sircmpwn PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I think that the human mind is just a really, really, REALLY complicated program < 1362293885 112958 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Furthermore, if you want to ask if a computer can think, also ask, can a submarine swim? < 1362293906 471322 :SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@unaffiliated/sircmpwn PRIVMSG #esoteric :a submarine can swim as a proxy for a sentient being or an AI < 1362293915 103193 :SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@unaffiliated/sircmpwn PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a vehicle, it doens't calculate < 1362293920 182346 :SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@unaffiliated/sircmpwn PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or think) < 1362293926 23155 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: from my point of view, I'm basically 100% certain that it's possible for a computer to be sentient < 1362293934 180565 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure either way whether any currently existing computers are sentient < 1362293934 759648 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm more and more convinced that zzo38 is Gary P. Rastov. < 1362293946 750461 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: ok i gotta admit i fully support the use of ultrafilters in social sciences < 1362293946 998771 :SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@unaffiliated/sircmpwn PRIVMSG #esoteric :I expect that there will be a human brain emulator within the century, zzo38 < 1362293952 647503 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: From my point of view, I don't know. < 1362293955 567901 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1362293962 366645 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope Norns aren't sentient < 1362293968 228672 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so… kmc's link basically says that there are voting systems that don't allow tactical voting when infinitely many voters are involved, but they're noncomputable? < 1362293969 571690 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If they are, I'm ... rather horrible < 1362293972 487495 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So! Terminology bit here. < 1362293991 59613 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I expect, everything is mathematics. So, even the universe is mathematics. But, not necessarily mathematics that has exactly one solution all the time; it can be no solution, multiple solutions, and can even be uncomputable. < 1362293997 630949 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"sentient" means roughly "can feel sensations". Things like dolphins are dogs are sapient. You are probably talking about sapience. < 1362294005 755340 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and they contain 'invisible dictators' which are? < 1362294015 928236 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Just to clarify, you know I'm not serious about thinking you're a sociopath, right? < 1362294022 704788 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, *are sentient < 1362294031 545989 :SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@unaffiliated/sircmpwn PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: thanks for the correction < 1362294049 212545 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: wait, did you correct a veiled insult into an actual insult? < 1362294049 869780 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike, somewhat, yes < 1362294054 629022 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, the author of a book can make any of the characters dead and/or illogical however they want, isn't it? < 1362294057 861368 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no? < 1362294078 181011 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't have mentioned it except that the question for Sgeo is actually whether Norns are sentient, rather than sapient, since he's just worried about inflicting pain on them, not selling them insurance. < 1362294082 268855 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: if you prove to someone that they don't exist, do they stop existing? < 1362294083 870867 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike, although I know someone who is somewhat concerned about what I (and others) would do if sapient computer programs are created < 1362294094 28881 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if you ask "are infinitely large societies governed without tactical voting all dictatorships?" the answer depends on whether you're using classical or constructive logic? < 1362294098 761890 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or sentient?) < 1362294103 829495 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :He uses the word conscious. < 1362294114 104123 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I hope the answer depends on the axiom of choice < 1362294116 686054 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: If the proof is correct, they didn't exist at the time either, so they won't stop either. < 1362294116 846711 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"conscious" is good for that yeah, since it's more common :P < 1362294118 878142 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might even be relevant! < 1362294126 753071 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: hmm, indeed < 1362294146 633115 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty convinced that people have made robots that can feel hunger. It's an odd thing to think about. < 1362294153 585361 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Norns do have brains that detect pain, and react to such < 1362294159 134772 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :So either way they won't stop existing. < 1362294162 947350 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lemme upload a picture of the norn brain < 1362294164 25060 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: what's this meaning of "norn"? < 1362294176 470999 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's a thing in an alife game called Creatures. < 1362294195 736374 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only meaning I know offhand is a specific mythological figure who's in charge of valkyries < 1362294198 54542 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I don't know much about Creatures but it doesn't seem like they're any more complicated than, like, nematodes. < 1362294229 714864 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://dl.dropbox.com/u/16240872/Creatures/chichi_brain.PNG < 1362294251 641554 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Basically they're virtual animals with such things as distinguishable "personalities", and C&C of their bodies through an artificial neural network. And they have some genetics. < 1362294257 749140 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :drive is things like hunger, pain, boredom < 1362294261 234760 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: hmm < 1362294271 983639 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: How many neurons is this, out of curiosity? < 1362294277 62370 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nematodes have I think... 293? < 1362294278 981483 :SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@unaffiliated/sircmpwn PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should change my pants < 1362294280 949424 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :attention and decision are the outputs: What they're focusing on, and what the action is < 1362294284 765921 :SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@unaffiliated/sircmpwn PRIVMSG #esoteric :I went to the store and bought more < 1362294292 937810 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, I think my own personal barrier for "when should something be considered sentient" is "the thing can communicate and add meaningfully to a discussion" < 1362294294 565135 :SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@unaffiliated/sircmpwn PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the fly is busted on this one < 1362294295 452215 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course nematodal neurons are more complicated, but hey. < 1362294307 692934 :SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@unaffiliated/sircmpwn PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: define meaningfully < 1362294311 73807 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this can in some cases include unborn children, and many animals < 1362294322 37046 :SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@unaffiliated/sircmpwn PRIVMSG #esoteric :unborn children wat < 1362294325 954023 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :SirCmpwn: you end up knowing more/different than if it hadn't contributed to the discussion < 1362294327 311436 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :comb is 40*13 = 520 I think (if I counted the verbs right) < 1362294345 213207 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :SirCmpwn: it's possible for unborn children to communicate, once they're negative-young enough, isn't it? < 1362294345 499530 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike, also, the lobes and dendrites all have pieces of code in a weird language < 1362294349 418793 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, nematodes have 302. < 1362294351 336948 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not visible on there < 1362294353 775602 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather c. elegans do. < 1362294357 432823 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the mother can feel the inside of her womb < 1362294360 852643 :SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@unaffiliated/sircmpwn PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's barely possible for them to communicate *after* birth < 1362294371 198137 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would say the most important thing is the drive->comb dendrites < 1362294376 827249 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, you know. C. elegans have 1031 cells, and of those 302 are neurons. That's like, almost a third! < 1362294386 900021 :SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@unaffiliated/sircmpwn PRIVMSG #esoteric :babies come out bumbling, stupid, and crippled, and become intelligent over the course of several months < 1362294390 425787 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :SirCmpwn: they can communicate needing attemption versus not needing attention < 1362294393 505079 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even from birth < 1362294397 458998 :SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@unaffiliated/sircmpwn PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so can a dog < 1362294401 34946 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1362294402 760190 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :dogs are sentient < 1362294407 848108 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aren't yhey? < 1362294409 331682 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*they? < 1362294414 722293 :SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@unaffiliated/sircmpwn PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in Bike's definition of "capable of sensation"? < 1362294417 101683 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since each comb neuron corresponds to a particular course of action to take < 1362294421 571050 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :SirCmpwn: as in my definition < 1362294424 722070 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like "eat seed" < 1362294427 394613 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I think pretty much everyone's < 1362294428 362354 :SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@unaffiliated/sircmpwn PRIVMSG #esoteric :state your defintion < 1362294429 571144 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :SirCmpwn: That's the generally-accepted notion of sentient actually. < 1362294435 293675 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And drive corresponds to things like pain and hunger < 1362294439 194548 :SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@unaffiliated/sircmpwn PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: indeed, but there was confusion earlier < 1362294444 76934 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :SirCmpwn: Star Trek "sentient" is a weird mutation of the term. < 1362294452 124208 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you think, everything is mathematics, or do you think, everything is physics, or something else different? < 1362294453 521446 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meaning basically "sapient". < 1362294462 139322 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is pretty jaded to "can computers think" sorts of arguments, if it's not obvious. < 1362294481 352911 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what the response lobe does < 1362294484 142405 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, in a lot of contexts they're practically interchangeable. A sentient computer and a sapient computer would both be rather shocking. < 1362294485 486546 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forgot about it :/ < 1362294494 248017 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(though the sapient computer more so) < 1362294496 153320 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: isn't it possible that mathematics is physics, and so everything is both mathematics and physics? < 1362294510 291869 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Yeah, it definitely sounds like norns have a lot of their behavioral repetoire pre-baked, but that's to be expected. < 1362294515 610318 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I don't think so! I think physics is mathematics. < 1362294532 291905 :SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@unaffiliated/sircmpwn PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, the point I was making earlier is that babies are not special and I wouldn't even call them capable of intelligence until many months after birth < 1362294548 743648 :SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@unaffiliated/sircmpwn PRIVMSG #esoteric :"intelligence" here meaning coherent thought like you and I are capable of < 1362294560 317671 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :SirCmpwn: So, "sapient". < 1362294567 184467 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike, well, yes, but not as you'd might think. The drive->comb connections are random at first, and the dendrites wander based on reward/punishment < 1362294569 437067 :SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@unaffiliated/sircmpwn PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1362294571 858868 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like you and I... that is your self-centerism < 1362294581 565432 :SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@unaffiliated/sircmpwn PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: wat < 1362294582 274011 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, babies take several months to become sapient. < 1362294584 452257 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But they have "instincts" in their genomes that make them dream of, say, eating a seed and being rewarded for it < 1362294585 901971 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: is it possible for physics to be mathematics, but mathematics to not be physics? < 1362294594 158525 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I still haven't played Creatures despite how cool it seems. Weird, huh? < 1362294607 901953 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Well, not entirely. Mathematics is beyond physics. < 1362294612 246365 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1362294616 448747 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike, http://creaturesdockingstation.com/ < 1362294617 715704 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, at least, that is what I mean. < 1362294633 782413 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: Hey, I last played a videogame for very long in 2010 or so, so... < 1362294647 682212 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, the first screenshot on there isn't DS < 1362294649 973001 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :videogames can be good < 1362294654 196032 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I last played a videogame a few hours ago < 1362294665 172962 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: yeah, i still have it open, i just haven't gotten around to it. < 1362294669 628267 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, one recent enough to have a copyright date of 2012 < 1362294679 477255 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But have you played Super ASCII MZX Town a few minutes ago? < 1362294683 234152 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: no < 1362294684 74933 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My queue just keeps growing and growing. < 1362294690 567170 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could probably have guessed that < 1362294690 730419 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't bother with the registration thing though, I think the Warp is down anyway < 1362294697 85023 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just get the offline option < 1362294707 769735 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: hmm… I don't keep a queue < 1362294709 861541 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you played any Famicom game with the copyright date 2013? < 1362294712 406416 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather I play what I feel like playing < 1362294713 941574 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: no < 1362294721 572677 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It's metaphorical in this case. < 1362294722 841624 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure if I've played any game with the copyright date 2013 < 1362294733 807736 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I jump around between games a lot, and replay them often < 1362294734 532957 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or else public domain; even if it is not copyright. < 1362294737 687303 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Some are public domain) < 1362294752 561019 :SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@unaffiliated/sircmpwn PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would like to have a word with whoever designed scissor packaging that requires scissors to open < 1362294754 717527 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've also got a giant queue of... every other form of media, really. < 1362294760 990866 :doesthiswork!~Adium@75.87.251.5 JOIN :#esoteric < 1362294769 820389 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :SirCmpwn: Yes, I also want to complain to them too < 1362294776 855817 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a big pile of books < 1362294777 5182 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if there were a god, I'd call him a dick for even having "anhedonia" in the same universe as me) < 1362294778 414281 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :literally < 1362294779 733527 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1362294796 689698 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i also have a phone with an increasingly more irritating ebook reader < 1362294798 601716 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: so do I, but most of them I'm not intending to read again in the near future, or possibly at all < 1362294808 569189 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just it i haven't read them < 1362294810 869791 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :they call for me... < 1362294826 110726 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't have an ebook reader that isn't also a general purpose computer < 1362294844 342348 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :They still make machines that aren't also general purpose computers? < 1362294848 167336 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(all general purpose computers are ebook readers) < 1362294856 633671 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: sure, in fact they're becoming more common, not less < 1362294864 912896 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoa. < 1362294869 513774 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically because they would be general purpose computers but have artificial restrictions so that they aren't < 1362294910 934426 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is why I make the computers which are very general purpose computers with no restrictions other than the security stuff that the user can always override anyways. < 1362294930 357132 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or to put it another way, specific purpose computers made using general purpose computers < 1362294933 486349 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And to include instructions in the book, tell you how to override, how to program it, how everything is working.) < 1362294962 334013 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yes, I'd be very surprised if a computer you made was locked down < 1362295020 39490 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :To really ensure general purposes, to ensure it is made so that it can be made anyone can clone even not needing patents to do so (even if patented technology must be used, such that it can be made the same easily without it too), however, having a trademark license so that if someone makes the wrong clone, that they cannot use the same name. < 1362295030 50483 :TeruFSX!~TeruFSX@65-128-137-85.mpls.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1362295089 823212 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Well, there are some restrictions on it but you can easily remove them without causing problems with existing software, so it is not a problem. < 1362295127 713550 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Such as a reprogrammable ROM chip is normally not reprogrammable unless you move the corresponding jumper, which is clearly labeled in the instruction book.) < 1362295272 662593 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I mean really general purpose computer that you can even just turn on, and then type in the program codes and it will run (although you can also load the already existing programs too, even if they are already compiled). < 1362295294 239376 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mostly PC BIOS computers don't have that anymore but they should make them such. < 1362295306 898542 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Aristocrats! < 1362295343 84699 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about aristocrats? < 1362295419 839149 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is the point of the Continue bit in the envelopes in AY8910? It seems to be the same shape as the ones that do continue than the ones tat don't (since you can also use the Hold bit). < 1362295432 857407 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Bike's referencing a famous joke pattern which ends up saying "the aristocrats" as a non sequitur < 1362295457 789063 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the joke pattern's sufficiently famous that you can reference the joke pattern just by using the punchline, the rest of the joke is irrelevant < 1362295466 677661 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1362295467 620099 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although if you do it that way, it isn't actually funy < 1362295469 149233 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*funny < 1362295474 820675 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo's version has way less rape, admittedly. < 1362295501 922541 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Version of what? < 1362295511 76506 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The joke. < 1362295532 492227 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-66-225.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1362295611 928941 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :having fewer rapes sounds like a good thing, generally speaking < 1362295625 163731 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless something else bad increases to compensate, then it might or might not be a good thing < 1362295632 285414 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo: I'm not sure hardware envelopes make sense on chips with that few gates :o < 1362295634 602728 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's true. < 1362295661 33993 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-66-225.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if it's "rape" by the older definition of "seize" or "capture", ais523? < 1362295666 285065 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: But they do have hardware envelopes. I don't know how many gates AY8910 has. < 1362295677 776994 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In context it is not, taneb. < 1362295682 884951 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-66-225.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay7 < 1362295694 141115 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: then it depends on what's being seized and captured, and using the more modern words would be helpful in order to reduce confusion and avoid bad connotations < 1362295696 11441 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-66-225.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay7 is like "Gr8" but not as good < 1362295719 922896 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay with a salute < 1362295724 160097 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, fewer rapes seems like a generally good policy. < 1362295737 692014 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm… today seems to be the ais523 "have I mentioned I'm lawful good yet" day < 1362295745 61678 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 march, I must remember that < 1362295752 854089 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-66-225.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? ais523 < 1362295754 501781 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Agent "Iä" Smith is an alien with a strange allergy to avian body covering, which he is trying to retroactively prevent from ever evolving. < 1362295756 118103 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"btw, rape? bad" < 1362295826 557658 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-66-225.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo "Agent \"I\" Smith is an alien with a strange allergy to avian body covering, which he is trying to retroactively prevent from ever evolving. On the 3rd of March, he's lawful good." > wisdom/ais523 < 1362295829 936393 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1362295832 667392 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-66-225.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? ais523 < 1362295834 369210 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Agent "I" Smith is an alien with a strange allergy to avian body covering, which he is trying to retroactively prevent from ever evolving. On the 3rd of March, he's lawful good. < 1362295851 602920 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, I think I'm almost always lawful good, just more likely to point it out on the 3rd of March < 1362295853 895056 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What character encoding do you want to use? < 1362295861 316229 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :UTF-EBCDIC < 1362295865 471658 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: utf-8 is a generally useful character encoding < 1362295868 318041 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :In here is not 3rd of march, yet. < 1362295872 919766 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :UCS-2.625 < 1362295877 613707 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: ouch for reminding me that exists < 1362295877 858417 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :UTF-EBCDIC is not ASCII so don't use that. < 1362295881 328477 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1362295889 719467 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use UTF-8 if you want to, though, or CP437, or whatever else. < 1362295894 450417 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: there are a lot of encodings that aren't ASCII < 1362295897 409364 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of them, in fact < 1362295897 960652 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :CP437 is also not ASCII < 1362295906 804788 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-66-225.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ISO/IEC 8859-14 < 1362295908 491470 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38 likes supersets of ascii. < 1362295908 640869 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :UTF-8 is, at least, compatible with ASCII < 1362295909 652403 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's cp435 again < 1362295918 760757 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you are wrong CP437 is ASCII, and so is UTF-8. < 1362295923 51025 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about SHIFT-JIS? < 1362295929 612864 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"good encoding" < 1362295932 250705 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: CP437 is DOS. < 1362295946 715692 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :SHIFT probably isn't supposed to be in allcaps, but I feel loud. < 1362295947 322451 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Oh, apparently there are multiple CP437s? < 1362295953 698960 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Namely, the character set used by DOS in the US. < 1362295958 519698 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking of the one that has 0x01 representing ☺ and all that. < 1362295963 247761 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: what about SHIFT-JIS, except you replace the shift codes with gambling games and add network transparency < 1362295966 643039 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: No, just one CP437 the others are other codepages. < 1362295968 931739 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the common ones are utf8 win32 (\r\n), utf8 linux, latin1 win32, latin1 linux, and then shift jis and a couple of other popular asian encodings < 1362295975 298279 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-66-225.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :TIS-620 < 1362295975 759587 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yeah, that's CP437. < 1362295976 605597 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: good encoding. w/o sacrequotes < 1362295977 975121 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes 0x01 is the happy face in CP437 < 1362295980 341608 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :scare* < 1362296000 293532 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and by latin1 I mean codepage whatever (the one used in win32, not the one with the dumb extended control characters) < 1362296012 706516 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: windows-1252? < 1362296022 173065 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1362296036 202992 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it also has some freakish iso name < 1362296046 905702 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use whatever encoding I need depending on the program being used, but is usually ASCII. Sometimes some parts of programs might use other encodings even though it is mostly ASCII, such as VGMCK which is ASCII except for GD3 tags which are UTF-8 and are converted into UTF-16. < 1362296047 976892 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-66-225.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr, Code page 437 < 1362296055 474491 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but everybody calls it latin-1 because, well, it's a zillion times more mnemotechnic < 1362296060 865508 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shift-JIS is perhaps the worst encoding devised. < 1362296070 845405 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't call Windows-1252 Latin-1! < 1362296071 452392 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: worse than the one I suggested just above? < 1362296075 337830 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, don't call it ANSI. < 1362296078 170040 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: latin-1 is a different encoding < 1362296082 653619 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :People who call things ANSI are evil. < 1362296084 892532 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since UTF-16 is not ASCII, it uses UTF-8 so that you can still use ASCII, and UTF-8 is otherwise the closest thing to convert to UTF-16. < 1362296086 952695 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :latin-1 = iso-8859-1 ≠ windows-1252 < 1362296089 412713 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Not worse than that. < 1362296090 290321 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Things other than ANSI, that is.) < 1362296093 846633 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The institute.) < 1362296094 852668 :Deewiant!~deewiant@deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ISO-8859-1 is latin1 is not Windows-1252 is not CP437 < 1362296095 2071 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais: it's IBM's original version < 1362296096 155249 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, it's probably just the most known weird country-specific encoding thing... eastern europe had a lot, didn't it? < 1362296099 520061 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also windows calls windows-1252 ansi for no obvious reason < 1362296100 669616 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais: which nobody used < 1362296101 549105 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: "ANSI" is weirdo Windows-speak for "legacy charset". < 1362296119 232887 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Likewise "Unicode" is weirdo Windows-speak for "UTF-16". < 1362296120 280466 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: they are helpfully numbered from latin-1 up to latin-15 or so < 1362296120 948467 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Actually it also accepts CESU-8, as well as overlong encodings, but you don't have to use those if you don't want to.) < 1362296126 897980 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: beautiful < 1362296127 709178 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: does it have a defined endianness? < 1362296131 529671 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: It's also the worst. < 1362296137 255972 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's pretty worst. < 1362296137 584835 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: UTF-16LE. < 1362296141 870619 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Well, sometimes Windows people mean "Unicode" by "Unicode". < 1362296142 186266 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god < 1362296145 389631 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :not utf16 < 1362296145 566244 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because Windows is only little-endian. < 1362296146 205063 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :die < 1362296158 835539 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything's little endian < 1362296160 518911 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, I have no idea how Cyrillic was typed up. Or is typed up for that matter. < 1362296169 363401 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :four thr thr fivee < 1362296171 26462 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What were they using on pirate C64s in the 80s? < 1362296188 989066 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: cyrillic has a comparable number of letters to latin, doesn't it? < 1362296193 512207 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows is little endian even on CPUs that are usually big endian. < 1362296194 491798 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1362296197 587795 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so probably just using ordinary keyboards except relabeled < 1362296207 286594 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant the encoding, but yeah I see your point. < 1362296211 276155 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe China then... < 1362296224 469390 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i already know how weird chinese input methods get < 1362296236 731903 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: you mean on Alpha? < 1362296242 618930 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also MIPS. < 1362296247 652126 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :All the commands in the program are ASCII, and the comments can be whatever encodings you want (except ASCII control codes), so the program correctly follows the principle of extended ASCII. < 1362296251 993356 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a mips version of windows?!? < 1362296256 163958 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :NT 4! < 1362296260 921737 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric ::o < 1362296263 780637 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :crazy < 1362296299 156471 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: what about identifiers? < 1362296315 557735 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the main place where you might want to accept outside-ASCII characters in source code < 1362296317 990973 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and string constants < 1362296321 899410 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even more so < 1362296338 105616 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually I think most code is still stored as latin1 < 1362296343 709267 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and character constants if you don't consider them a special case of string constants) < 1362296355 392123 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: most code is in ASCII, and thus can't be distinguished between latin-1 and UTF-8 < 1362296360 766954 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :with windows cr-lf or just lf depending on the coder < 1362296360 989174 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :except when I write … in a comment out of habit < 1362296370 65658 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it depends more on the editor and OS than the coder < 1362296375 46133 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1362296383 713647 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I usually use utf-8 because i dump «spinäl t©p» sorts of things everywhere < 1362296389 266918 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Those things are not applicable to this program. Identifiers for macros are just one character and only ASCII, and string constants are only used in GD3 tags, which are UTF-16, so it accepts UTF-8 there and will convert them to UTF-16. < 1362296400 416579 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :On Linux systems, stuff is usually UTF-8. < 1362296423 883925 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(to the point where I generally think you should just say "a string is in UTF-8. Period.") < 1362296432 222781 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i missed a discussion of CP 437 :( < 1362296434 530475 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And on Windows, Microsoft is fucking crazy. < 1362296435 517369 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :In other programs with string constants such as in C, you should allow any characters, and just encode the bytes as is. So, if it is UTF-8, then your program will work with UTF-8. < 1362296438 751911 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :also for console programs, windows gives you filenames etc in latin-1 < 1362296448 974206 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: Not quite. It's crazier. < 1362296452 213756 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: bush hid the facts < 1362296452 856204 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, codepage whatever but still) < 1362296454 214573 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: actually isn't "take encoding from locale" the usual default? and aren't most locales latin-n by default but people tend to use the utf-8 versions nowadays? < 1362296455 875117 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I use CP437 when working on Linux. < 1362296483 941081 :Gracenotes_!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1362296485 222593 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's worse than cp437 is that there's a different version that windows sometimes uses < 1362296492 499954 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: Windows has a very comprehensive scheme for working with arbitrary charsets. They *refuse* to extend it to handle UTF-8. < 1362296499 308018 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which has no point except it screws up your DOS programs < 1362296503 171604 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since the Linux console is only 256 character codes anyways, then Unicode is too much and is too complicated. < 1362296516 52204 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1362296519 898016 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :UTF-8 data can still be worked with though, in programs that are using UTF-8 data, but not in other programs, please. < 1362296522 738176 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: The only way of using Unicode on Windows is to use their non-conformant wchar_t interfaces. < 1362296528 662473 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm… the Linux console understands the code for "enter UTF-8 mode" < 1362296532 627804 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1362296533 493104 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :can it not render it once you've done that? < 1362296537 606683 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Along with their ultra-weird UTF-16 entry point. < 1362296547 880708 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: and wchar_t isn't designed for utf-8 < 1362296551 814841 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1362296552 622349 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Almost all distros default to UTF-8 thought. < 1362296554 99784 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's designed for utf-32, really < 1362296561 219791 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes, but on Windows it's UTF-16. < 1362296568 283113 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wide character strings are meant to be fixed-width < 1362296570 354359 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes, turn on UTF-8 but there is also the code to turn off the UTF-8. < 1362296573 828546 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :utf-8 is multibyte character strings, instead < 1362296585 883699 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: that's so you don't end up stuck in utf-8 mode forever < 1362296588 335315 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :also case sensitivity is based on a large LUT < 1362296589 342505 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: The trick is, char* strings on Windows cannot be UTF-8. < 1362296594 788193 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1362296599 29386 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that gets updated depending on your windows version < 1362296606 180703 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes, so you can switch depending on what programs you are using, then. < 1362296607 116349 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The entire OS only does legacy charsets that way. < 1362296611 151765 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ever. < 1362296627 591212 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so two files that are different can become the same if the unicode char gets added to the table < 1362296631 87101 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :really there should be a "utf8char" type < 1362296637 355814 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or mbchar < 1362296637 525392 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: That is, using the Windows API calls; using your own programs they can be whatever encoding you want to. < 1362296639 218030 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, you have to rewrite your code to handle Unicode. < 1362296643 388631 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that represents one byte of a multibyte encoding < 1362296650 460123 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you have to rewrite your code to handle Unicode /anyway/ < 1362296657 168484 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and even then it won't handle Turkish correctly < 1362296680 445184 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :tbh in the tool I'm working on I just disallow anything over >128 < 1362296684 612188 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Usually I don't handle Unicode or anything since instead I will just use ASCII, and depending what it is, using UTF-8 might still work with it, and possibly other encodings too. < 1362296688 935926 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's wrong with turkish < 1362296695 856231 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: What took are you working on? < 1362296696 194715 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :bike: dotless i < 1362296696 344257 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even though their API is set so the meaning of char* is determined by whatever charset is in use, and they actually have it ultra-mega-crazy to work with stuff like Shift-JIS. < 1362296706 484687 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: it has capitalization rules that are inconsistent with other languages < 1362296709 971792 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh that's a fun character < 1362296714 6743 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yeah, but a lot of code will "just work" with UTF-8. < 1362296716 479902 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :bike : also dotted capital I < 1362296727 315802 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially on Windows, where people actually use Shift-JIS in char* strings. < 1362296742 378579 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :bike : essentially it uses dotless i to represent the same sound as japanese 'u' < 1362296745 130955 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yes, depending what it is you might not have to do anything special, so you can use UTF-8 or whatever if you want to. < 1362296757 95786 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: so what's the problem? NIH syndrome? < 1362296762 110588 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: and that character isn't in unicode? < 1362296764 32730 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems like a weird thing to not support along with other encodings < 1362296766 295540 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I have not the foggiest clue. < 1362296770 40889 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair enough < 1362296770 190357 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :bike: no it's in unicode < 1362296781 481946 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :bike: but that totally screws up capitalization < 1362296790 75822 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :since the caps version of i isn't I anymore < 1362296799 959988 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But now, Windows dev communities are the most confused about how character encoding works. < 1362296807 158692 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :baking capitalization into unicode seems like a bad idea anyway < 1362296811 462975 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And especially Unicode. < 1362296813 167873 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :'It is considered particularly ironic that Atatürk himself, in his lengthy speech to the new Parliament in 1927, used a style of Ottoman which sounded so alien to later listeners that it had to be "translated" three times into modern Turkish: first in 1963, again in 1986, and most recently in 1995' < 1362296831 365220 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: once for each coup AM I RIGHT FOLKS < 1362296831 514837 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unicode is full of problems and too much complexity. < 1362296844 967469 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :bike: you have to, because the win32 file system is case sensitive < 1362296845 576746 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, anyone know how that Cyrillic letter that looks like a backwards R is pronounced? I'm guessing neutral vowel, but could do with confirmation < 1362296858 667467 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :bike: so you have to process case < 1362296864 462206 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 : 'ya' < 1362296866 604917 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-66-225.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How worth it would it be to write an Apache Wave server in Haskell < 1362296869 930992 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nevertheless simply allowing UTF-8 in some parts of the program just in order to convert to UTF-16 if the output format uses it, is not complicated. < 1362296873 32062 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: hmm, OK < 1362296874 639164 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :not worth anything < 1362296885 40152 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 : the one that's neutral vowel looks like bI < 1362296889 697396 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'd say Microsoft's failure to support UTF-8 is the single greatest reason for people thinking Unicode is a 16-bit encoding) < 1362296898 61120 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how strong is the 'a'? I'm guessing short 'a', is it strong or is it reasonably neutral? < 1362296900 387715 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to remember a natural language that used capital letters in its orthography, but I can't remember... < 1362296901 460979 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is why VGMCK accepts UTF-8 in GD3 tags. < 1362296912 451252 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: that might well play into Microsoft's hands < 1362296916 101200 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 : russian doesn't have vowel length < 1362296921 71521 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if they're attempting to have the web misencoded for some reason < 1362296924 679123 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 : or strong vs weak vowels < 1362296930 708742 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: hmm < 1362296936 958159 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so long a and short a are heard the same by a russian speaker? < 1362296947 637152 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :russian has only normal a < 1362296956 39510 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Text macros in VGMCK are named by a single ASCII character; any bytes >= 128 are not acceptable.) < 1362296956 840056 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: This is a stupid legacy decision that predates things like "broadband Internet". < 1362296960 414390 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: yeah but how does it correspond to English letters? < 1362296968 594132 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: doens't predate dial-up < 1362296970 838092 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*doesn't < 1362296976 699066 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :uuuugh i'm groaning in sympathy for phonologists i know, guys < 1362296978 337030 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least to me is reasonable like that. < 1362296980 719383 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: They made this mistake way back in NT 3.1 days. < 1362296990 751447 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This actually predates commercial ISPs. < 1362297008 430554 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think BBSes were older, weren't they? < 1362297025 700588 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't really see how it matters < 1362297026 751187 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but they weren't Internet service providers. < 1362297030 636316 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 : there are two sets of vowels, they call them "hard" vs "soft"... essentially normal vs y+vowel < 1362297064 464455 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: yeah, basically my problem is, if I tried to pronounce Russian, would I be accidentally saying letters that didn't exist, or would what I said be perceived as a Russian letter whether it was English short a or English long a? < 1362297084 111311 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :phonemes. phonemes that don't exist. < 1362297096 267963 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, yes < 1362297110 213096 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm tired, OK :) < 1362297120 885177 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :me too :( < 1362297133 419507 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, Japanese doesn't have a separate "l" and "r", but the letters are separate in English < 1362297142 60536 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hard: А Э Ы О У = a e o u (a eh japanese-u o oo) < 1362297151 155769 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And in fact Japanese "r" is not the same vowel as either. < 1362297157 586687 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't japanese "r" more like "d" < 1362297163 397297 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: indeed < 1362297166 57458 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :american english "d" I guess < 1362297169 58018 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: No, but it sounds similarish. < 1362297170 994409 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :god this is hard to talk about < 1362297184 692661 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but Japanese people will hear the two english letters the same, and thus they can be used interchangeably by an English speaker attempting to speak Japanese < 1362297191 175017 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they'll be understood equally well either way < 1362297192 982985 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: ɾ is the IPA. < 1362297200 393750 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :back in high school I spent like an hour trying to pronounce "akira" japanesely once < 1362297204 90097 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or equally badly < 1362297212 937864 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :soft: Я Е И Ю (ya ye/yo yi yu) = "ya yeh/yo yee yoo" < 1362297215 227443 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION actually pronounces that sucker right < 1362297219 29042 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn you. < 1362297223 387407 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just want to talk about my animes! < 1362297227 771389 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though my pitch accent is awful. < 1362297232 543268 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :in dictionaries they spell yo as Ё I think < 1362297237 501932 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i have no even idea on pitch accent < 1362297238 205657 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My friend's mom (who is a lawyer) told me that I should just take the job (40k) without any negotiation or complaints, because I need a job on my resume < 1362297245 95406 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: What animes? < 1362297249 526658 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(my /actual/ problem is "I have some Cyrillic which I suspect is English words transliterated into Cyrillic, how do I attempt to deduce what the original English was?") < 1362297251 871477 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i sort of understand how chinese pitch works, i think, but japanese aaaaagh what < 1362297255 703016 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: the film, Akira. < 1362297261 767277 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: 40k is more than I'm making < 1362297275 500307 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, erm, in USD? < 1362297277 316246 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: The trick with Japanese pitch accent is, it's not as firm as Chinese pitch at *all*. < 1362297278 128947 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 : read them and figure out how close they are to US? < 1362297281 351722 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even in USD < 1362297284 591776 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.O < 1362297288 85510 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless the dollar is really low right now < 1362297290 272639 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yeah, that probably doesn't help. < 1362297299 397503 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm hardly paid anything, although hopefully that'll change soon < 1362297303 700437 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like English stress. Saying it wrong sounds wrong, *but* each accent has their own "right" way. < 1362297314 707281 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: and saying it wrong is also entirely intelligible < 1362297315 941751 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: it seems like with chinese pitch is just part of the phoneme but with japanese... yeah, like that. < 1362297320 287560 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Exactly. < 1362297333 234903 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-66-225.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a really odd accent, a lot of people can barely understand me when I start taking quickly < 1362297333 528897 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, nothing wrong with sounding like a robot for a while i guess < 1362297356 159436 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-66-225.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps because I drop loads of consonants so that "cone" and "coat" become almost homophones < 1362297370 244552 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :speaking foreign languages isn't the same thing as sounding indistinguishable from a native < 1362297378 239405 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1362297385 392445 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: That's the ideal state. < 1362297389 322806 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're close enough, there's no ambiguity < 1362297393 332009 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just also damn near impossible to get. :P < 1362297402 806300 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: it's past the point of return on investment < 1362297429 857614 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION nods < 1362297430 7043 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though you're saying one of the sounds wrong, it can't be another sound because it's not closer to the wrong sounds than to the right one < 1362297440 451320 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :like when you're using the wrong kind of "t" < 1362297454 957264 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds wrong but you can't change a word into another one < 1362297458 226925 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well there are several sounds in English that don't exist in specific other languages < 1362297464 417403 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. French doesn't have a "th" < 1362297472 160015 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah "th" is the main one < 1362297473 766506 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that doesn't prevent native French speakers pronouncing English intelligibly < 1362297475 10084 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which 'th'? < 1362297480 542524 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :both < 1362297481 29963 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Both. < 1362297481 662997 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: either of them < 1362297484 92260 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :dang < 1362297492 367893 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually there are three in English < 1362297494 895318 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but two of them are quite similar < 1362297495 44681 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :'th' is actually a fairly rare sound < 1362297502 82148 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais: 3????? < 1362297510 845252 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Maybe in your accent. < 1362297510 995123 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't remember the examples offhand < 1362297520 61255 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 certaintly but not 34 < 1362297522 368087 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh < 1362297524 414974 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 certaintly but not 3 < 1362297530 347169 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: hmm… I have a surprisingly average accent, actually < 1362297534 25423 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably depends on accent < 1362297543 274826 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of my parents came from London, the other from Sheffield, and I live in Birmingham < 1362297551 730739 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm American. :P < 1362297556 73778 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1362297563 635406 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :We've actually had some phoneme mergers. < 1362297579 837718 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the "rare" sounds english has are "th" and the distinction of tense vs lax vowels < 1362297581 627039 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :personally I have an accent pretty close to TV midwestern but apparently there are differences too subtle for me < 1362297584 771697 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well London is pretty far south, and Sheffield is considered to be northerly unless you live in Hexham < 1362297598 717121 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(aka long-tense-diphthongs vs short-lax-vowels < 1362297601 567319 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, mine is Midwestern-ish. < 1362297603 47575 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Hexham is further north than any sane person would live) < 1362297617 762950 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then, I'm physically Midwestern-ish. < 1362297620 980366 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(unless they were Scottish, or Finnish, and have even further north people to compare to) < 1362297636 592025 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-66-225.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stupid southeners thinking Sheffield is north... < 1362297641 784732 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ee/ih, ay/eh, ah/a, o/oh, oo/ooh, uh, er < 1362297649 587298 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: yeah < 1362297654 18736 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it's north compared to Birmingham < 1362297655 865106 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :also "er" is rare < 1362297662 1527 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the english version) < 1362297663 91402 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I personally think of sheffield as being towards the south end of tnorth < 1362297665 202328 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*north < 1362297673 46937 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas london is towards the east end of south < 1362297676 207398 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-66-225.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's further south than York! < 1362297677 348981 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha, ha, i'm using a non-rhotic accent!!! < 1362297679 691138 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the english version of "r" is rare (but "r" sounds in general are common) < 1362297687 749397 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-66-225.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And York's like 100 miles to the south of me! < 1362297691 795715 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: apparently londoners think of /birmingham/ as north < 1362297705 986963 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-66-225.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that's why nobody likes London < 1362297710 100990 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION keeps misreading "York" as "New York". < 1362297712 169738 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and possibly even oxford and milton keynes, but that would need verification < 1362297734 261990 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that I can think of any reason anyone would care about the old one. < 1362297749 642835 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shViewth: the old one has existe dlonger < 1362297750 976080 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, v/w split isn't that common (a lot of languages have only 1 of these) < 1362297785 795320 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :w is arguably a form of u < 1362297789 729099 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the "zh" sound in stuff like pleasure, garage... isn't too common either < 1362297802 487541 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"shViewth"? < 1362297804 793226 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 : depends on the language < 1362297817 565468 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: while typing that, my client also jumped to the top of the scrollback buffer < 1362297822 207085 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 : in some languages is pretty much a fast vowel yes < 1362297828 605012 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-66-225.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Latin, u/v/w is one letter, as is i/j/y < 1362297834 578370 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :somehow, I cannot avoid underestimating Konversation's scope for bizarre typos < 1362297841 365943 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 : but in a LOT of languages, including english, w is a consonant really < 1362297847 557165 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: y is a different letter in Greek loanwords < 1362297852 220647 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't it? < 1362297852 618066 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-66-225.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, touche < 1362297854 417774 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and patterns with consonants < 1362297864 189655 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: w is the consonant form of u < 1362297875 768361 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb : I'm pretty sure y is another variant of u actually < 1362297877 349479 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like y is the consonant form of i < 1362297882 415312 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also f < 1362297882 564741 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, hmm < 1362297899 164519 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :f isn't a form of u, surely < 1362297899 661031 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :no y is greek upsilon < 1362297911 162959 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :f is from greek digamma < 1362297939 811948 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I see < 1362297940 367449 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is phonecian waw < 1362297948 706447 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-66-225.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The symbol comes from digamma, but it's closer to phi nowadays. < 1362297958 983477 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :upsilon is also from phonecian waw < 1362297986 389762 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, phi became English ph < 1362297992 678936 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-66-225.opaltelecom.net TOPIC #esoteric :#esoteric welcomes its new prime minister, Ed "Brainfuck Derivative" Centipede | Newsflash: every single letter is 'U' | Channel is publicly logged. You can find the URL in the log. < 1362297993 170493 :oonbotti!~oonbotti@91-145-118-87.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing here < 1362297995 918047 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but ph and f are pronounced very similarly < 1362298001 167943 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ph%C3%B6nizisch-5Sprachen.svg chart < 1362298005 391325 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-66-225.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oonbotti responds to topic changes? < 1362298006 9645 :oonbotti!~oonbotti@91-145-118-87.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: Please consider whether you can answer your own question. < 1362298007 668111 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so latin had f u (digamma which disappeared from greek, and upsilon basically) < 1362298019 143183 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then latin imported y for greek loanwords < 1362298026 378978 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it ended up with f u y < 1362298028 907652 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: because it starts with a #. dumb huh < 1362298030 680333 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :#hey < 1362298035 443946 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nno? ok. < 1362298041 257116 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :#esoteric al < 1362298041 430788 :oonbotti!~oonbotti@91-145-118-87.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing here < 1362298048 697647 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-66-225.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :#esoteric Fueue < 1362298049 238689 :oonbotti!~oonbotti@91-145-118-87.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing here < 1362298056 490557 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :good bot < 1362298062 12743 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a weird error response < 1362298102 79004 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :then in middle age they started making u pointy when starting words < 1362298119 395318 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well in Roman times it was always pointy < 1362298131 920221 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least in uppercase < 1362298139 405864 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly because it was easier to engrave that way? < 1362298156 792249 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :vvvvvv < 1362298156 969651 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :roman only really had one u sound < 1362298168 327009 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it didn't make sense to have two letters < 1362298231 789239 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah in the middle age languages like french, italian and english had developed a separate v and j sound < 1362298262 69508 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so people ran with the shape variation and turned them into distinct letters < 1362298337 397297 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :germans came up with a different solution to that problem < 1362298342 564137 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is why we now have w < 1362298379 728975 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although english w != german w < 1362298384 114881 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*≠ < 1362298458 997403 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :in english, w apparently was a replacement for wynn < 1362298546 508728 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyways, long story short, western european languages have lots of labial sounds < 1362298567 681654 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is why waw has been split into 5 different variants :D < 1362298662 543585 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net QUIT :Quit: ie ie ie ie ie < 1362298860 860455 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1362299176 652990 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-66-225.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would like to put my weight behind Underload as featured language < 1362299349 907584 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: the problem is that elliott's no good at writing featured language blurbs < 1362299353 746615 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and he won't let me write one for my own language < 1362299358 84356 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so someone else has to < 1362299369 481966 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-66-225.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's time to OPEN A TEXT EDITOR < 1362299437 709490 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-66-225.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, was Underload inspired by Muriel? < 1362299762 633683 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it was inspired by Overload < 1362299771 592940 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which wasn't really inspired by anything < 1362299774 17713 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-66-225.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Underload is a stack-based esoteric programming language invented by ais523. It is effectively a functional language, as the only available form of flow control moves data from the data stack into the program. Due to its simplicity, among other factors, it has been useful in proving other languages (such as Thutu and FALSE) Turing-complete. < 1362299789 659587 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how long is that compared to the existing blurbs? < 1362299808 693622 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-66-225.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :57 words < 1362299817 451554 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: http://zem.fi/ircvis/esoteric/people_summary.html has per-day number-of-messages/characters for individual people. < 1362299822 865860 :Nisstyre-laptop!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1362299831 203382 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-66-225.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite short, actually < 1362299837 117085 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah I did a stack based functional language too back in the day < 1362299838 308375 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Hasn't been updated in the last week or two, must do that.) < 1362299846 766973 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-66-225.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Malbolge's is 99 words < 1362299885 193225 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-66-225.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although Malbolge's is the longest < 1362299913 868777 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(There's also all other kind of graphs there.) < 1362299921 835632 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine was called tabarnac < 1362299955 558094 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, did you ever decide if Trustfuck is a metacircular compiler? < 1362299961 59037 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1362299977 225340 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: I'm thinking in terms of visual width, rather than words < 1362299999 183227 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-66-225.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, it's quite short < 1362300018 532013 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Updated.) < 1362300083 475518 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My head hurts from the mathematical stupidity < 1362300088 151428 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/philosophy/comments/19jqan/is_pi_proof_of_continuous_space/c8ou5gj?context=3 < 1362300107 358761 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-66-225.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My throat hurts for reasons I know not < 1362300121 850124 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A rational number is not necessarily an integer. 3.14 is rational, 3.14 recurring is not. A rational number is one that can be subjected to an expression and give a sane answer. Demonstration: 3.14/5.69 = 17.8666. Both sides of the equation have sane numbers, and are therefore rational." < 1362300139 40223 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-66-225.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The first sentence is okay < 1362300145 514238 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-66-225.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the first clause of the second sentence < 1362300149 169147 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-66-225.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :After that... < 1362300351 548621 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/NBXA wordnet concurs that rational $\approx$ sane. < 1362300384 701124 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like to call them demythologized numbers, though. < 1362300388 636173 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has more flair. < 1362300486 785085 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I replied < 1362300500 12335 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell Bike But that's not equivalent at ALL! < 1362300500 417127 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1362300509 825637 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I thought it needed more emphasis.) < 1362300577 936965 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just realized that the phrase "3.14 recurring" is ambiguous < 1362300588 495811 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it 3.141414141414... or 3.1444444444444... < 1362300604 771524 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-66-225.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or 3.14314314314314314314... < 1362300624 960897 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or 3.14.14.14.14.14.14... < 1362300647 833469 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb's option doesn't make any sense, though. < 1362300683 380774 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-66-225.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My option makes perfect sense when you remember that the person who said "3.14 recurring" is an idiot < 1362300717 785348 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :3.143.143.143.143.14... makes a lot more sense < 1362300729 184631 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(who's the idiot now, huh?) < 1362300928 278595 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-66-225.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In other news, there is evidence suggesting Snoop whatever animal he is now reads Homestuck < 1362300947 773035 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :3.141.3.141.3.141.3.14... maybe it goes back and forth. < 1362300989 713765 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb : as long as it's not mlp :D < 1362301028 59164 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-66-225.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr, nothing wrong with mlp. At least one person in this channel watches mlp. < 1362301074 177651 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-66-225.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it isn't me! < 1362301233 190281 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :my brother watches mlp :D < 1362301250 246555 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-66-225.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing wrong with Snoop Dogg either < 1362301251 703869 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :was saying it jokingly, I can't really criticize tbh < 1362301282 172188 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was this "smoke weed every day" meme not too long ago < 1362301290 193004 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's dead now though < 1362301294 138791 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"At least one person in this channel does X" != "nothing wrong with X". (In general, not just about the Window System.) < 1362301376 761824 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-66-225.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, those statements were only loosely related < 1362301388 63513 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I'd be the biggest hypocrite if I really tarred on mlp stuff < 1362301483 36307 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1362301555 755159 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is the music in Famicompo with "smoke weed every day", I don't really like that one much. < 1362301662 80734 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one I made? :D < 1362301680 346630 :doesthiswork!~Adium@75.87.251.5 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1362301793 309146 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. I do like your other musics though. < 1362301823 278182 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :made a really nice song recentily -> http://madbrain.devzero.co.uk/Discohouse_Amargeddon.mp3 < 1362301861 479271 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :SMOKE WEED EVERYDAY < 1362301880 188547 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It will never die in kmc's heart. < 1362301900 83434 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't snoop dogg named snoop lion now < 1362301908 605454 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :My flight leaves SFO at ~06:00 on Wednesday. < 1362301909 950693 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-66-225.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe < 1362301910 923729 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah and I think he's doing reggae < 1362301911 405771 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Why? < 1362301915 655621 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-66-225.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :His facebook page isn't < 1362301916 759361 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a true fact < 1362301924 568631 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Caltrain doesn't go there that early. < 1362301933 165719 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps the best thing to do would be to go the evening before. < 1362301948 241551 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1362301952 715136 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems like < 1362301969 879379 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want to get to the airport at 04:30 or 05:00 < 1362301975 323014 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :where are you going from SFO? < 1362302013 786945 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :LGA via MDW < 1362302030 91557 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-66-225.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr, that's some pretty good music < 1362302037 475430 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks :3 < 1362302117 704332 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1362302145 150998 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :taneb : do you compose too? :3 < 1362302152 273459 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-66-225.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah < 1362302155 962312 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know some people in here do < 1362302161 413869 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-66-225.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've got no musical talent < 1362302164 932207 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-66-225.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that I don't try < 1362302202 728832 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sometimes music. < 1362302212 294431 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not a lot. < 1362302244 995925 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did enter Famicompo Mini vol.9 < 1362302299 691275 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :one time i went to the bucharest airport in the middle of the night and then slept on top of my bags until i could check in < 1362302302 201204 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do write computer programs for dealing with music, such as VGMCK which is what I am working on now. < 1362302311 914998 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Is it permitted? < 1362302317 73429 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure < 1362302327 818389 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Evidently the universe permitted it to happen. < 1362302331 805232 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, s/kmc/zzo38/ < 1362302339 637613 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38 : right... I think... gregg does music too right? < 1362302340 772992 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes, the laws of physics permit. < 1362302356 56359 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is not quite how I meant < 1362302359 895423 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: gregg? < 1362302364 878748 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :gregor < 1362302372 618103 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor? Yes, I think so. < 1362302400 998861 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if he has done it in Lilypond or whatever, I am not sure < 1362302419 70577 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :does vgmck let you use samples for instruments < 1362302423 524465 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is it just synthesis? < 1362302461 557920 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: VGMCK lets you use the chips in the VGM format, so some chips let you use samples for instruments. Currently the only chip that does that that I have implemented in VGMCK is QSound, although there are others which I have just not implemented yet. < 1362302477 699158 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :how many channels does qsound have again < 1362302481 912929 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sixteen < 1362302503 853326 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could probably do something close to the mp3 I linked to then < 1362302525 220170 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :though it has a bit of reverb added on and it has more like 32 channels < 1362302614 196504 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OPL4 has both FM and samples, and it has more channels, so that can be used too. In addition, any chips can be combined other than SN76489 with T6W28. < 1362302617 664163 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :goes up to 40 at times (counting "virtual channels") < 1362302645 430511 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah opl4 is cheating too :D < 1362302660 536982 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :C# 4.0 has named parameters :) < 1362302665 264684 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :In addition, most (but not all) chips can be doubled. < 1362302667 885216 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although it still has ref arguments :/ < 1362302675 777098 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the 4op mode supported on opl4? < 1362302683 660561 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: What has it named them? < 1362302749 816118 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :VGMCK does not currently support OPL4 at all, but I intend to support all the VGM chips, so when it does support OPL4, it will support 4-op mode too. < 1362302761 880184 :nortti!~juhani@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you know any good tutorials for the so called lisp syntax assembly used in PARRY? < 1362302808 691704 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-66-225.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know someone called Parry < 1362302831 16187 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: Do you know the .VGM format? VGMCK compiles into VGM, so you will need a VGM player to play or convert it. < 1362302857 71085 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :only ever used it for... genesis playback I think < 1362302875 425099 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :since that's the platform that has games with interesting soundtracks anyways < 1362302884 561526 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that and snes but snes has spc < 1362302888 922246 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and nes has nsf < 1362302933 167873 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, VGM has a lot of chips (although it does omit some of the NSF chips, but they may be included in later versions): http://www.smspower.org/Music/VGMFileFormat < 1362302968 197349 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :VGMCK currently supports the following chips: SN76489, T6W28, YM2413, YM2612, YM3812, NES APU, GameBoy, HuC6280, Pokey, QSound. < 1362302983 863069 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am currently working on adding AY8910. < 1362303053 220271 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here is a list of programs which can be used to create VGM: http://vgm.mdscene.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=107 < 1362303110 905338 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it lets you write for strange mixes of weird chips < 1362303131 277484 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(As far as I can tell, DefleMask allows to use only one chip at a time (from the documentation on their webpage), and I don't think XPMCK allows using more than one chip at a time either but I am not sure.) < 1362303157 517842 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-66-225.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aww, now I'm writing music < 1362303180 723231 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: Yes; VGMCK is meant to eventually implement all the VGM and VGM does allow using various mixes of chips. < 1362303206 848777 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it let you do stuff like vibratos or do you have to do those with macros like other mck things < 1362303237 936174 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: You have to do those with macros, unless the chip supports hardware vibrato in which case you can use that. < 1362303284 65905 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm < 1362303373 724431 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want a tracker format for VGM, DefleMask is probably best (not open source, but available for Windows/Mac OS X/Linux), although it is not as powerful as VGMCK, but depending on what you are doing it might work. If you prefer MIDI editors, you can use that too and convert, but those do even less. < 1362303461 531610 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks up deflemask < 1362303467 659423 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks strange < 1362303537 155041 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hopefully it's less broken than TFM music maker/tracker :D < 1362303566 210624 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1362303732 582281 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :TFM music maker is broken? < 1362303736 420530 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1362303783 252286 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does everything wrong < 1362303819 411956 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, now I know, so if anyone asks, I can tell them. < 1362304300 38535 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :If one'd extend a PDA with registers < 1362304326 953198 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there an amount of registers < Infinity to make it tc < 1362305928 497853 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-66-225.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1362305983 849470 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_: you need an infinite amount of storage in the registers < 1362305993 174268 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although you can do that with a finite number of registers, if they're infinitely large registers < 1362306052 355639 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com QUIT :Quit: Radiateur < 1362306083 205594 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-66-225.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1362306120 54467 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@188.134.41.176 JOIN :#esoteric < 1362306700 178791 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, Condorcet was a marquis < 1362306889 516702 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1362307195 862977 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT : < 1362307724 999595 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-66-225.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1362308024 739744 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-24-160.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1362308024 889380 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-24-160.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1362308024 889539 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1362308180 178021 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1362308750 4950 :banana_pee!~cantcode@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz NICK :nick_exile < 1362308813 838724 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1362309247 237016 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-66-225.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1362309411 645872 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does lambdabot do rewrite rules? < 1362309611 15246 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1362309669 995717 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1362309890 275214 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1362310036 778915 :impomatic!~digital_w@146.90.165.144 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1362310846 490756 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1362311895 102912 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1362311951 874441 :carado!~carado@2a01:e35:8b61:e430:221:63ff:fe9a:3747 JOIN :#esoteric < 1362312005 427575 :nick_exile!~cantcode@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz QUIT :Quit: ragequit < 1362312039 509985 :sirdancealo2!~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz JOIN :#esoteric < 1362312155 430623 :sirdancealo2!~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1362312193 75991 :sirdancealo2!~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz JOIN :#esoteric < 1362312309 281839 :sirdancealo3!~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz JOIN :#esoteric < 1362312324 782975 :sirdancealo2!~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1362312324 932302 :sirdancealo3!~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1362312344 817156 :sirdancealot!~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz JOIN :#esoteric < 1362312633 237875 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.34.166 JOIN :#esoteric < 1362312998 181536 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-66-225.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1362313352 502263 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Quit: Arc_Koen < 1362313369 928854 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does C even support const structs? < 1362313391 679944 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :C89 that is. < 1362313491 611258 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :const Foo bar = mkFoo(); is obviously not allowed. < 1362313555 626043 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is {.x < 1362313562 219291 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :C89? < 1362313673 713669 :c00kiemon5ter!~c00kiemon@foss-aueb/coder/c00kiemon5ter PRIVMSG #esoteric :.x ? as in, struct foo f = { .x = .., .y = .., }; ? < 1362313682 103260 :c00kiemon5ter!~c00kiemon@foss-aueb/coder/c00kiemon5ter PRIVMSG #esoteric :then no, that is C99 < 1362313700 647655 :c00kiemon5ter!~c00kiemon@foss-aueb/coder/c00kiemon5ter PRIVMSG #esoteric :designated initializers < 1362313792 94035 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :c00kiemon5ter: Yeah. < 1362313837 970688 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :f = {1,2}; should be legale C89 though. < 1362313842 327653 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :*legal < 1362313872 233807 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-66-225.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1362313994 471046 :carado_!~user4539@2a01:e35:8b61:e430:6ef0:49ff:fe73:1fd0 JOIN :#esoteric < 1362314156 652593 :carado!~carado@2a01:e35:8b61:e430:221:63ff:fe9a:3747 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1362315958 23570 :Frooxius_!~Frooxius@cust-101.ktknet.cz JOIN :#esoteric < 1362315965 495679 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@cust-101.ktknet.cz QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1362316044 866772 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-24-160.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1362316045 210535 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-24-160.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1362316045 360039 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1362316076 517230 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@cust-101.ktknet.cz JOIN :#esoteric < 1362316079 111613 :Frooxius_!~Frooxius@cust-101.ktknet.cz QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1362316130 620508 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1362316137 819553 :Frooxius_!~Frooxius@cust-101.ktknet.cz JOIN :#esoteric < 1362316144 371263 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@cust-101.ktknet.cz QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1362316146 537203 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_, you can't declare the value of y in C89 for union { int x; float y; } though in that manner, due to the lack of the dot-syntax < 1362316147 173480 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. < 1362316154 818945 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages < 1362316155 374116 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan said 14d 3h 46m 31s ago: also my PS3 controller on my desk random came to life and blinked the 4 LEDS a couple of times <-- probably just the google cloud trying to print < 1362316160 212448 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh < 1362316164 98808 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got that days ago already < 1362316169 818502 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :why are you reminding me of this lambdabot? < 1362316174 62939 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: My internet research tells me that I can use {foo,bar}; if used in the right order. < 1362316194 915341 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_, for a struct, yes obviously < 1362316199 370283 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :not for an union though < 1362316215 651036 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, C89 is obsolete, C99 and C11 are the currently used ones pretty much < 1362316231 394305 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from MSVC there isn't much of importance that doesn't do C99 at least < 1362316300 577723 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :C89 doesn't have function prototypes < 1362316301 879809 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the < 1362316307 162152 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh it does < 1362316311 480413 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :K&R C does < 1362316325 442148 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_, I suggest using a more reliable source than what you are currently using < 1362316334 70651 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1362316343 984225 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :The first time wikipedia is completely wrong. < 1362316366 24767 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is your problem, using wikipedia as a source < 1362316404 457261 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh. It's gve or take. < 1362316409 881830 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :*give < 1362316649 395730 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_, are you trying to learn C? < 1362316726 704724 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :No < 1362316729 215618 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know C. < 1362316738 31580 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just don't know which versions of C I know :) < 1362316740 764918 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1362316781 552259 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which means that I know the C gcc compiles without any specific version options < 1362316794 989413 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just don't know which features are available in what versions. < 1362316833 205860 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I always use -std=c99 -D_POSIX_C_SOURCE=200112L < 1362316848 213802 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :should probably move to the next version of POSIX soon < 1362316854 633320 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :after all it was released in 2008 < 1362316963 443673 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but for my compiler I decided to target C89 < 1362316992 905201 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are writing a C compiler? < 1362316993 961572 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1362317028 63856 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :C89 is great, it has no features and everything is broken < 1362317061 917982 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No < 1362317069 884820 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1362317077 56130 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant I compile my language to C89. < 1362317080 153086 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, that is like all versions of C, more or less < 1362317120 892995 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :C99 is pretty sane, I think < 1362317127 791998 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :C11 support is not far I assumed. < 1362317143 821512 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and some microsoft products apparentely don't even support C99 fully compliant. < 1362317174 542781 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc, microsoft explicitly unsupports all of c99 < 1362317180 344020 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I figured C89'd be best so people can use any c89 compliant compiler for the backend < 1362317208 369396 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :(except if c99 accidentally standardized some microsoft extensions, I guess) < 1362317210 488967 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : C99 is pretty sane, I think <-- really? Files but no directories? No threads? gets still around? < 1362317222 407097 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't really looked at C11 though < 1362317304 624375 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I count threading and i/o as mostly outside the language (but threading less so, since the behavior of variables with threads is sort of important) < 1362318056 708289 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-54f97e-153.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1362318236 819139 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, hm < 1362318260 666583 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anything support C11 yet? < 1362318319 474672 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait wtf < 1362318329 974492 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :since when was tom hanks directing an american gods tv series < 1362318346 457688 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :never, apparently, since he's producing it < 1362318511 675071 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_, C11 is at least partially supported (according to wikipedia.....): GCC starting with version 4.6,[5] Clang starting with version 3.1,[6] and IBM XL C starting with version 12.1[7] support some features from C11. < 1362318735 359935 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@cust-101.ktknet.cz JOIN :#esoteric < 1362318885 393129 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-54f97e-153.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1362319024 689386 :FreeFull_!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1362319160 205438 :dessos!~dessos@c-174-60-176-249.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1362319165 55144 :epicmonkey_!~epicmonke@188.134.41.176 JOIN :#esoteric < 1362319165 204963 :dessos_!~dessos@c-174-60-176-249.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1362319287 27396 :Frooxius_!~Frooxius@cust-101.ktknet.cz QUIT :*.net *.split < 1362319287 220580 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@188.134.41.176 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1362319287 384944 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :*.net *.split < 1362319287 686352 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :*.net *.split < 1362319897 78289 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1362319928 610784 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-66-225.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The vocab list that OCR publishes for A-level latin is inconsistent < 1362319952 14725 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-66-225.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless there's a big difference between "verb semi-dep" and "verb semi-dep." < 1362319970 305228 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-66-225.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And "verb 2 semi-dep" and "verb 2 semidep" < 1362320008 222719 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure there is. < 1362320019 869009 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :semi-dep means it's half dep, semi-dep. means it's half deponent. < 1362320160 280843 :mekeor!~user@dslb-094-216-096-030.pools.arcor-ip.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1362320251 755272 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu < 1362320592 856279 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :The function `") {"' is applied to three arguments, < 1362320594 144945 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :o_O < 1362320908 347730 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Demonstrating music tech is difficult, because it seems to be impossible to listen to demos without making aesthetic judgements. The below is not meant to be good music, but if you find yourself enjoying any of it, please think sad thoughts. If you find yourself reacting badly to the broken rhythms, try humming a favourite tune over the top." < 1362321531 911141 :GOMADWarrior!~Regis@187.65.192.73 JOIN :#esoteric < 1362321927 574018 :Sanky!~SankyZNC@unaffiliated/sanky QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1362321981 502803 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Max SendQ exceeded < 1362322050 264325 :Sanky!~SankyZNC@unaffiliated/sanky JOIN :#esoteric < 1362322230 813857 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :can ghci tell me which pattern does not exist? < 1362322510 322727 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :nvm. found the bug. < 1362322523 307266 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :-Wall < 1362322568 215102 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-66-225.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1362323114 776427 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1362323343 30945 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-67-248-121-45.nycap.res.rr.com QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1362323376 777913 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-67-248-121-45.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1362323524 77691 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codepad.org/Gy729Qol < 1362323527 385749 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :^- well.. < 1362323539 401813 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "bootstrap" compiler works :) < 1362325636 966256 :quintopi1!~quintopia@74.117.159.204 NICK :quintopia < 1362325641 608161 :quintopia!~quintopia@74.117.159.204 QUIT :Changing host < 1362325641 757637 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia JOIN :#esoteric < 1362325711 747326 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1362326024 231564 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :somehow github only show the first 54 lines o_O < 1362326088 149030 :ogrom!~del@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee QUIT :Quit: Left < 1362326293 843539 :doesthiswork!~Adium@75.87.251.5 JOIN :#esoteric < 1362326977 357579 :FreeFull_!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover NICK :FreeFull < 1362326996 877781 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :> lines "foo\r\n" < 1362326998 561596 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : ["foo\r"] < 1362327004 616951 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sucks. < 1362327011 781847 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-66-225.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1362327402 408999 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because most people who use Haskell do so on Linux < 1362327409 825094 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :um... < 1362327421 87536 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a start spj uses windows < 1362327433 1021 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a second i'm pretty sure haskell does the C normalisation thing whereby you get "\n" on any platform, though don't quote me on that < 1362327439 102860 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is spj most people? < 1362327444 371721 :impomatic!~digital_w@22.120.125.91.dyn.plus.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1362327445 505002 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-66-225.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1362327901 227672 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1362328119 61868 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-24-160.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1362328136 180514 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-24-160.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1362328136 330080 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1362328234 846482 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1362328458 721361 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use windows. < 1362328551 771585 :Lumpio-!~matti@89-166-34-164.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Get Linux < 1362328561 275049 :Lumpio-!~matti@89-166-34-164.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I'm sorry to hear that < 1362328579 105686 :epicmonkey_!~epicmonke@188.134.41.176 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1362328598 85184 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@188.134.41.176 JOIN :#esoteric < 1362328627 135151 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu < 1362328627 462589 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :os/2 is the future < 1362328627 888908 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. < 1362328631 658347 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa < 1362328668 827493 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@cust-101.ktknet.cz QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.17/2009122204] < 1362328684 841409 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@cust-101.ktknet.cz JOIN :#esoteric < 1362330404 352832 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :\o/ < 1362330420 583991 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can compile a hello world program. Not much. It's something :) < 1362330651 580197 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What language what system? < 1362330706 93217 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codepad.org/tmyU8LMO < 1362330766 51340 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't recognize that language < 1362330776 313622 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't. < 1362330785 555521 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :It didn't exist two months ago :) < 1362330853 176760 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm creating a non-esoteric programming language for a change. < 1362330880 809670 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which I compile to C) < 1362331004 166665 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://raw.github.com/FMNSSun/mopl/master/mopl/hw.c <- that's the output file < 1362331093 140899 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :({{ ... }} is inline C) < 1362331221 99567 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's very simple actually. < 1362331232 346465 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just some hacked together ~200 lines of Haskellcode < 1362331249 629686 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok.maybe 400 lines. < 1362331455 951983 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1362331464 201441 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ultimate goal is to write a mopl compiler in mopl < 1362332228 774791 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1362332237 715159 :TeruFSX!~TeruFSX@65-128-137-85.mpls.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1362332645 787679 :daniela!~yetzabeth@190.121.238.241 JOIN :#esoteric < 1362333365 848088 :TeruFSX!~TeruFSX@65-128-137-85.mpls.qwest.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1362333799 861584 :ogrom!~del@gprs-inet-65-41.elisa.ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1362333800 13945 :ogrom!~del@gprs-inet-65-41.elisa.ee QUIT :Client Quit < 1362333820 103410 :ogrom!~del@gprs-inet-65-41.elisa.ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1362337068 420350 :tswett!~quassel@ec2-23-23-86-149.compute-1.amazonaws.com QUIT :Changing host < 1362337068 570001 :tswett!~quassel@unaffiliated/tswett JOIN :#esoteric < 1362337679 540212 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe Haskell should have a library like Python's ctypes < 1362337739 930027 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :dynamically loaded, dynamically typed FFI bindings < 1362337996 811065 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does that work? Loading a .so or .dll file? < 1362338034 530386 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1362338061 961090 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1362338106 322379 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :How would dynamically typed FFI bindings work though? < 1362338176 785273 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ctypes.CDLL('libc.so.6').printf("Hello, world!\n") < 1362338183 661656 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's how it works in Python < 1362338218 582065 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well with the standard Haskell FFI, there's no check that the type you declared for a C function matches the type it was compiled with < 1362338225 653449 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we just move the not checking to runtime instead of compile time :) < 1362338227 357532 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, OK, I suppose in a programming language such as Python (or other dynamically typed programming languages, such as JavaScript) would make sense like that. < 1362338262 238109 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :loadLibrary :: String -> IO Lib; invoke :: Lib -> String -> [CArgument] -> CResult < 1362338267 690307 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I would like to have is dynamically loaded Haskell programs using a type such as: Typeable x => FilePath -> IO x < 1362338284 646921 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :'plugins' is supposed to do that < 1362338287 125840 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Yes I suppose that could be the way. < 1362338299 802788 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or hint or mueval or all these others that i can't keep track fo < 1362338321 371336 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: you could do an awful pritnf-style hack for nice syntax < 1362338324 643784 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think CArgument and CResult are sort of dual there < 1362338334 78710 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :however I don't see how this is really better than the existing FFI < 1362338339 457210 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :after all you can already import dlopen/dlsym and it works fine afaik < 1362338348 742078 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think something like that is done for objective-c bidnings < 1362338361 852412 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :CArgument is just a sum of all the C types, but CResult is a thing which, you tell it what type the result should be and it converts < 1362338373 286916 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :With my idea basically the .so or .dll contains a Haskell value of type x, so it could be a record type, or it could be a IO action in which case you will want to join the result if you want to execute it right away. < 1362338384 325584 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i find ctypes to be slightly more convenient than Haskell's FFI and i'm trying to figure out why < 1362338417 855640 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's probably not a big difference though < 1362338449 740792 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I think it is convenient in Python because C APIs are close to what you'd actually use day-to-day in Python :p < 1362338459 742889 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this is basically a complaint about python) < 1362338463 952197 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1362338471 509146 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: While the loadLibrary and invoke could possibly do it, it seems like example you gave is things that would work better in other programming languages such as Python, Perl, JavaScript, and so on. < 1362338493 416702 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm my mersenne twister in Python is only 4 times slower than the reference implementation < 1362338556 772341 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i think it's just that you're probably doing some type-munging around the C call anyway, so doing that *and* declaring the type in a 'foreign import' declaration seems like boilerplate < 1362338573 253757 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1362338584 671820 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could do some typeclass hackery like I said. it'd be slow runtime though :( < 1362338585 51680 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least I think in JavaScript you could have it work with the same code as the example with Python, even. < 1362338589 508132 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1362338590 556826 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you used hsc2hs/c2hs < 1362338593 592617 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you might find those more convenient < 1362338597 34846 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i used hsc2hs < 1362338598 934228 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's all right < 1362338605 824801 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hdis86 uses it < 1362338608 171011 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :c2hs is more elaborate fwiw < 1362338612 140175 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1362338616 967775 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i read ezyang's blog posts about it < 1362338635 555194 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wrote that library on fung wah bus < 1362338694 592013 :daniela!~yetzabeth@190.121.238.241 PART :#esoteric < 1362338727 713569 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Now write it in befunge < 1362339078 58426 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :mersenne twister? < 1362339195 554788 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mersenne twister shaped like a twister < 1362339240 510545 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :rhymes that blister like mersenne twister < 1362339581 402977 :mekeor!~user@dslb-094-216-096-030.pools.arcor-ip.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1362339724 179670 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-66-225.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Preach it, sister < 1362340141 580932 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1362341565 988696 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1362341643 317453 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : theory: it is substantially easier for something to be awesome if it has no purpose other than awesomeness < 1362341649 357621 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523: I would imagine the opposite. < 1362341663 649713 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i submit this is one of those Great Truths < 1362341686 781387 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :the former or the latter? < 1362341697 939984 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-66-225.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The two lines as a whole, of course < 1362341700 950768 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :...i see you don't know what a Great Truth is. < 1362341710 510730 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :I clearly do not! < 1362341715 395108 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please explain < 1362341725 433116 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a truth such that its opposite is also a Great Truth < 1362341761 629559 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see oerjan is a dialetheist < 1362341786 877043 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah Niels Bohr was the origin of that < 1362341795 917190 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tried Piet Hein first < 1362341808 443950 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also a dane with a penchant for great truths) < 1362341895 209852 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm i don't trust that quote site to have the correct wording... < 1362341910 560501 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries wikiquote instead < 1362341915 16746 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Your definition of "Great Truth" sounds like a recursive definition without an edge condition < 1362341944 249898 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Two sorts of truth: profound truths 
recognized by the fact that the opposite is also a profound truth,
 in contrast to trivialities where opposites are obviously absurd." < 1362341949 286873 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an old quote < 1362341970 620885 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :a nice one < 1362341982 974274 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that's the wikiquote version which actually is cited) < 1362342053 239412 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes I have seen that before < 1362342060 607206 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :so do we also have an actual list of Great Truth? < 1362342065 659228 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Truths < 1362342076 881579 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure you're quite on the wavelength of the idea here < 1362342123 354810 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest: i guess you need to take the corecursive interpretation (i.e. maximal possible set) in that case. < 1362342135 444466 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :since the minimal one, by what you say, would be empty. < 1362342216 121101 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, like, the universal set? < 1362342218 64234 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If any Great Truth are logical then you need to use different kinds of logic. < 1362342226 694512 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :youo're not supposed to have a list, it's just supposed to be an insult, what the hell < 1362342235 135539 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.34.166 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1362342271 159410 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: p <=> not p is definitely not true indeed < 1362342274 921289 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.66.187 JOIN :#esoteric < 1362342317 740261 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :can unknown be equivalent to not unknown even? < 1362342328 139869 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ternary logic then) < 1362342356 263357 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought ¬u = u was a given of that logic < 1362342395 787261 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest: no, not the universal set, it doesn't not include falsities or their opposite < 1362342400 719796 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1362342402 280520 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*-not < 1362342423 645838 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(maybe that was still correct on account on being a great truth) < 1362342552 954134 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think to understand great truths, you first have to understand that logic has its limitations. < 1362342577 559300 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not just to understand that they exist, but to understand a particular one. < 1362342599 195150 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also how can i say that when i still haven't thought of an example. < 1362342600 785591 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least I know that logic has limitations. < 1362342616 758784 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't it like a great truth that great truths are /really/ great truths? < 1362342630 127626 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But there is different kind of logic, in order to make some things that works in some cases. < 1362342642 404136 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe zen koans < 1362342645 867597 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :hande hoch! < 1362342667 606631 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but since niels bohr was involved, probably also something quantum < 1362342668 787911 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But a kind of logic can be mathematically logical even if it doesn't apply to actual situations normally. < 1362342675 261799 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: wie so? < 1362342694 749506 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yes, perhaps Zen koans would be called great truth by such definition, possibly. < 1362342703 704127 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you just need to use a paraconsistent logic < 1362342727 489931 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the truth value of cutting off your disciple's arm < 1362342756 676410 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Quantun? I guess so, although it still isn't applicable to measured (collapsed) states, I suppose, even though it is in general, possibly? < 1362342759 355356 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :das ist ein internationale skandal! < 1362342766 377321 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: Forty-two! < 1362342773 62727 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :humorous < 1362342774 799641 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But only if you don't do it. < 1362342799 210868 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: Mu. see: [Parachattavadhari 451, page 701] < 1362342832 433725 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that gobbledygook that's supposed to look like Sanskrit? < 1362342865 73790 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf i keep being logged out of wikipedia < 1362342866 113129 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do know one word in Sanskrit, at least. < 1362342877 695322 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe this is related to that oots issue < 1362342895 248923 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does the cookie expire? < 1362342932 999490 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have ticked the usual "remember for 180 days" mark < 1362342964 319394 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you try editing the cookie? I have found that for some webpages it won't work properly unless the cookie is edited. < 1362342965 205801 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: MAYBE < 1362342977 935945 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you even know how to write Sanskrit? < 1362342984 632557 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. < 1362343035 960239 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just have some vague idea about the phonology and maybe a handful of words. < 1362343047 369050 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wouldn't Zen be in Japanese or Chinese anyway < 1362343052 31094 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok maybe not _that_ vague < 1362343073 509448 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Ayanamsha" is Sanskrit words for amount of precession of equinoxes. < 1362343074 542121 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: japanese, i think the chinese is slightly different < 1362343101 92448 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: didn't you mention that before, or was that another astronomy word < 1362343106 751271 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, gateless gate is in chinese isn't it < 1362343120 395512 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I don't know. Probably I did. < 1362343126 874149 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-66-225.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's one of them in Hexham < 1362343134 63939 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-66-225.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A gateless gate < 1362343138 633579 :ogrom!~del@gprs-inet-65-41.elisa.ee QUIT :Quit: Left < 1362343143 895239 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I don't know if any astronomers use such words unless they are Sanskrit or astrologers. < 1362343157 509413 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or both) < 1362343179 76498 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How would an astronomer be Sanskrit? < 1362343229 369357 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know; I am not Sanskrit. < 1362343235 665044 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1362343237 162434 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the subjects weren't different back then < 1362343242 956389 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it's not an ethnicity < 1362343271 932107 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: O, OK, then. < 1362343286 33923 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, if they speak/write Sanskrit then they might use such words. < 1362343312 741393 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would be like doing astronomy in latin. (Which sounds amusing) < 1362343315 509205 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok at least closing and reopening the browser didn't lose the login. maybe it was connected to how my hibernation image was broken... < 1362343341 380326 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or that it's somehow kept different for http and https < 1362343368 998187 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Latin is the language of Vatican. < 1362343378 513177 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :THERE IS NO POPE OMG < 1362343382 109093 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTFBBQ < 1362343392 196243 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is still Vatican, even if there is currently no pope. < 1362343400 73023 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@188.134.41.176 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1362343404 560680 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1362343577 340307 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so why did vatican delete all benedict's tweets < 1362343596 894085 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :papal fallibility < 1362343624 308389 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they're archived!! < 1362343673 938028 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :archivandi in gloria aeternis < 1362343683 784512 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it is because it was the Vatican's account and not the pope's own account? < 1362343691 296971 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that why? < 1362343713 302679 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagining the pope having a personal twitter account now < 1362343722 723939 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :for all his non-catholic church related doings(???) < 1362343745 343528 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :read 'church related dongs' < 1362343770 325782 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ratzinger's zingers, an account devoted entirely to cheesy insults < 1362343789 163909 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even if he has a Twitter account which does have stuff about the Catholic Church, then, if it is his own account then they should not delete it. If it is belonging to the Vatican, then they have the right to delete it. Isn't it? < 1362343795 481292 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: insert predictable joke re: catholic church < 1362343867 806205 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :joke manipulator arm now online. please clear a 500m standard safety area around joke insertion slot. commencing insertion... < 1362343914 343654 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is probably farther away than that from my computer. < 1362343929 578248 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're probably going to get a concussion then < 1362344071 122922 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I don't know where it even is (or even whether or not you made such a thing), so it won't help anyways. < 1362344121 884031 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tell that to your concussion < 1362344232 90757 :Zerker!~zerker@cpe-24-24-168-181.socal.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1362344253 947443 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does any Famicom emulator be able to read the host system's battery function to set the FDS battery low bits? < 1362344433 954318 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should have followed up with "i guess that's more a tumblr thing" < 1362344444 285376 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i was already in the shower by the time I thought of this witty remark :/ < 1362344570 784967 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote kmc: ok i gotta admit i fully support the use of ultrafilters in social sciences < 1362344580 698459 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :978) kmc: ok i gotta admit i fully support the use of ultrafilters in social sciences < 1362344595 402651 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1362344702 783861 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait where does the remark go in context < 1362344767 910185 :doesthiswork!~Adium@75.87.251.5 PRIVMSG #esoteric :evolveing a program to to give me the nth digit of the thule-morse sequence when given the binary representation of n is very hard if I only allow it to use nand gates < 1362344769 884685 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : for all his non-catholic church related doings(???) <-- uh, what does that consist of? < 1362344774 849794 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: (???) < 1362344782 217150 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah, of course < 1362344837 960242 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but more seriously is he known for having some side interests at all? < 1362344849 887956 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe, uh, catching butterflies or something+ < 1362344853 110608 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/+/?/ < 1362344859 355728 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1362344871 535313 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely he must, as a person, have some hobbies < 1362344967 447181 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think you quite understand how churches work < 1362345010 734227 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that is probably true < 1362345188 872796 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swats Taneb for converting `? ais523 from utf-8 to latin-1 < 1362345205 29847 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? ais523 < 1362345206 869775 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Agent "I" Smith is an alien with a strange allergy to avian body covering, which he is trying to retroactively prevent from ever evolving. On the 3rd of March, he's lawful good. < 1362345213 720763 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :* + -----### < 1362345240 636281 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What would Chaotic Evil ais523 look like? < 1362345259 49785 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kind of person who knocks over unattended cups i'd wager < 1362345318 812327 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm my browser's autocomplete database has reset too < 1362345349 38401 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`url < 1362345351 887900 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ < 1362345410 13584 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo "Agent \"Iä\" Smith is an alien with a strange allergy to avian body covering, which he is trying to retroactively prevent from ever evolving. On the 3rd of March, he's lawful good." > wisdom/ais523 < 1362345420 72003 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1362345481 245954 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :* oerjan swats Taneb for converting `? ais523 from utf-8 to latin-1 <-- why would he do such a crime < 1362345510 539267 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: presumably by cutting and pasting in his irc client with a bad charset setting < 1362345516 892834 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1362345528 486810 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a heinous crime indeed < 1362345540 623444 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? ais523 < 1362345542 462666 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Agent "Iä" Smith is an alien with a strange allergy to avian body covering, which he is trying to retroactively prevent from ever evolving. On the 3rd of March, he's lawful good. < 1362345584 925558 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : surely he must, as a person, have some hobbies <-- istr he plays the piano? < 1362345632 252983 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, Ah < 1362345642 390401 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :could microblog on twitter about the piano < 1362345659 854496 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : What would Chaotic Evil ais523 look like? <-- he would actually _succeed_ in retroactively unevolving avian body covering, although at terrible cost. < 1362345699 472247 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :why specifically on the 3rd of March? < 1362345709 493167 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :hasn't ais been basically lawful good forever < 1362345725 893278 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:29:10 hmm… today seems to be the ais523 "have I mentioned I'm lawful good yet" day < 1362345728 944612 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:29:17 3 march, I must remember that < 1362345746 901679 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb _may_ have slightly misinterpreted. < 1362345773 171938 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1362345783 255497 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How would ais523 react if stuck in a Lawful Evil area? < 1362345789 895906 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, yeah I remember we established his alignment long ago < 1362345791 749524 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where Lawful contradicts Good < 1362345817 296357 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, he would obviously not be ais any longer < 1362345821 633195 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :he sputters out and then starts shouting about diathelism < 1362345950 165971 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://chaospet.com/2007/11/29/62-dialetheism/ < 1362345965 666397 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes i can't spell WHAT OF IT < 1362345980 603114 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo i'm a dialatheist < 1362345986 510625 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe god exists AND doesn't exist < 1362345990 311080 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike, didn't even notice < 1362346011 292261 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that comic is pretty sophistic but what else is new < 1362346023 884857 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although.... I guess that's why Google only turned up the comic < 1362346032 283306 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Weird though, since the comic spelled it correctly < 1362346037 132380 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think graham priest is the usual go-to guy < 1362346047 638896 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's the high priest of dialatheism < 1362346048 932634 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No it didn't < 1362346069 3005 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://chaospet.com/2009/06/15/128-more-dialetheism/ (the link I originally saw) contains BIke's misspelling < 1362346070 45785 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In addition to his work in philosophy and logic, Priest practices Karate-do. He is 3rd Dan, International Karate-do Shobukai; 4th Dan, Shi’to Ryu, and an Australian National Kumite Referee and Kata Judge." < 1362346105 195992 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seriously thought that the whole diathelism thing was a reference to that comic. < 1362346117 138803 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've never seen that comic before and it looks bad < 1362346136 268806 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blame Google. < 1362346142 788915 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :f u google < 1362346142 986456 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yourself for misspelling. < 1362346147 942966 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :f u bike < 1362346152 222305 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fugle < 1362346335 581322 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bluh. What's that really famous song, I think it's a Kraftwerk song, that's ohwoahohwoahoh < 1362346348 386563 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1362346360 538989 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah, and it goes like, doooOOOooooOOOOOoo? < 1362346377 70309 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080101093149AAhTBGF < 1362346379 988897 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :duh, duh duh duh duh, duh duh, duh duh duh duh duh duh DUH, duh DUH < 1362346385 573593 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i googled: oh woah kraftwerk < 1362346407 101499 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i refuse to believe that works < 1362346413 250746 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sgeo listen to that song so you can say it's not it < 1362346420 687052 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it links to several tracks in fact < 1362346423 524991 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of them is even by kraftwerk < 1362346471 216089 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The beginning is unfamiliar, but I think it's the song < 1362346478 272172 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where TF did I get "kraftwerk" from? < 1362346478 554904 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck. < 1362346481 241910 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.66.187 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run (echo '#!/bin/sh'; echo 'tr A-Z U | tr a-z u') > bin/uuu; chmod a+x bin/uuu < 1362346486 592058 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1362346491 295566 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.66.187 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run welcome | uuu < 1362346493 753721 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uuuuuuu uu uuu uuuuuuuuuuuuu uuu uuu uuuuuuuu uuuuuuuuuuu uuuuuuuu uuuuuu uuu uuuuuuuuuu! Uuu uuuu uuuuuuuuuuu, uuuuu uuu uuu uuuu: uuuu://uuuuuuuu.uuu/uuuu/Uuuu_Uuuu. (Uuu uuu uuuuu uuuu uu uuuuuuuuu, uuu #uuuuuuuu uu uuu.uuu.uuu.) < 1362346498 673086 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :didnt you know every piece of electronic music is by kraftwerk < 1362346503 64359 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a science fact™ < 1362346510 15434 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also they invented robots < 1362346530 769597 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 JOIN :#esoteric < 1362346537 194973 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-66-225.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trivia: there are actually robots in the Illiad < 1362346545 111684 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I only thought I knew Kraftwerk in relation to that song, which isn't actually a Kraftwerk song < 1362346551 560749 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The ones on the island with the labyrinth? < 1362346555 840617 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except, hmm < 1362346565 787079 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't actually hear the vocals in this version < 1362346568 756441 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wir fahren fahren fahren auf der autobahn < 1362346572 482621 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :did i spell that right < 1362346581 732139 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :faßren < 1362346584 751329 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck you < 1362346585 34212 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hth < 1362346591 615944 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1362346608 481773 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike, if it helps, this might be the wrong version of the basic concept of the song < 1362346617 81065 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the wrong version of the basic concept of the song... < 1362346619 606555 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it's too late < 1362346637 3604 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway if it is "Kernkraft 400" i have a guess why you related it to kraftwerk < 1362346638 766389 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the guess is "kraft" < 1362346649 743762 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ohohohoh ohoh.song < 1362346649 899924 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is what is is called on limewire < 1362346649 899997 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source(s): < 1362346649 900043 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hockey songs --- limewire < 1362346670 747295 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :why don't you listen to some REAL german electronica http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6zb8YpL5-w < 1362346697 988201 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.66.187 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsorGbKwNlA#t=22s < 1362346714 507934 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't hear any actual oh woah ing in here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSJQLCImV18 < 1362346734 142923 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Electronic sounds are doing the same melody that oh'ing should be < 1362346744 446332 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you listened to a choir singing it < 1362346761 238931 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.66.187 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=?v=XPoiPZYbtnA#t=75s Sgeo < 1362346788 573101 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fwjZFLmrpE i have no idea why it's real but it is < 1362346793 520389 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.66.187 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bjornsuper 6 dagen geleden < 1362346793 670890 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.66.187 PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 to 1.15 complet shit rest of the song annihilates < 1362346801 58513 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.66.187 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks for the review, bjornsuper < 1362346822 413611 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-66-225.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1362346828 506837 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooodl, yes < 1362346853 789260 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.66.187 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops i messed up that link < 1362346856 492037 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.66.187 PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you find it anyway < 1362346858 179324 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: is this from that album < 1362346861 311834 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohhh < 1362346862 745060 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's that thing < 1362346865 135693 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I deleted feature=? < 1362346866 229282 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heheh < 1362346871 588856 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah it's from that one album of that one thing you got it < 1362346879 682446 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think that is actually from an ep actually < 1362346889 817651 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what i meant was uh < 1362346902 771852 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :god dammit go faster browser < 1362346908 964590 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :im going to die < 1362346965 906813 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also good: vocal guitar http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7Asi870JpI < 1362346974 236637 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acoustica:_Alarm_Will_Sound_Performs_Aphex_Twin < 1362346993 817698 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :always laughing and laughing loud < 1362346998 816306 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :except i think i also meant something else < 1362347015 354746 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever fuck this i'm going away for quarter of an hour, back when i don't hate everybody < 1362347018 300396 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this sounds complicated elliott < 1362347037 839708 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-d9329b26.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://miburl.com/3tYFIf darn.. i need a premium account at all costs < 1362347050 388535 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : fuck you <-- Bike was lying hth < 1362347145 176002 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1362347198 908462 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so h < 1362347567 260962 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : (I thought it needed more emphasis.) <-- O KAY < 1362347712 994884 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.66.187 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1362347851 760341 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let stupid = 3 {-# RULES "stupid" stupid = 2 #-} in stupid < 1362347852 906128 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Terminated < 1362347855 565173 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let stupid = 3 {-# RULES "stupid" stupid = 2 #-} in stupid < 1362347857 492799 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : :1:16: parse error on input `{-# RULES' < 1362347875 40484 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: NOPE < 1362347946 214894 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: what sounds complicated. < 1362347966 950908 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that one album of that one thing < 1362348000 151258 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1362348005 738358 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let stupid = 3; {-# RULES "stupid" stupid = 2 #-} in stupid < 1362348007 985228 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : :1:17: parse error on input `{-# RULES' < 1362348021 169217 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let stupid = 3 in {-# RULES "stupid" stupid = 2 #-} stupid < 1362348022 935432 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : :1:19: parse error on input `{-# RULES' < 1362348037 85441 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid < 1362348082 359853 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 251 seconds < 1362348090 957269 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Oh well < 1362348152 118089 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: although i don't know if RULES work outside top level anywhere < 1362348173 403927 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-24-160.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1362348173 822418 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-24-160.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1362348173 972481 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1362348178 798573 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: some of their stuff is pretty impressive < 1362348196 569255 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :whose stuff < 1362348204 336353 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@let stupid = 3; {-# RULES "stupid" stupid = 2 #-} < 1362348204 516139 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Invalid declaration < 1362348212 798600 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :STUPID < 1362348233 800701 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've heard of a song called "Guile's theme", but why does a dialect of Scheme have a theme? < 1362348247 777907 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :bad joke, retire it < 1362348252 354792 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :was that meant to be a joke.. < 1362348276 100145 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did gather that there's a game or something called Guile, but I can't help but think of the Scheme dialect < 1362348288 682093 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a character in a video game < 1362348302 187515 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it's a word? you know, "guile", like ability to trick people < 1362348330 89379 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : why are you reminding me of this lambdabot? <-- i think this may be "things reset for no sensible reason day". as well as ais523 lawful good day, of course. < 1362348334 579773 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but words don't typically get theme songs either < 1362348362 882003 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but sometimes... sometimes, more than one thing may be named after... /the same word/ < 1362348379 113683 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1362348436 463220 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did I say anything along the lines of "The character must be named after the Scheme dialect!" or "The Scheme dialect must be named after the character!"/ < 1362348447 853877 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1362348457 201628 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :definitely < 1362348463 583436 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know generally you don't have to have an argument for your joke to work :P < 1362348489 324488 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact it doesn't help. < 1362348497 400034 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :at all. < 1362348501 120117 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hth. < 1362348530 916675 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: in fact it didn't help. < 1362348532 205629 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :at all. < 1362348534 559685 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hth. < 1362348541 421645 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :thx. < 1362348541 571218 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :recursion < 1362348574 341275 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :we've obtained rapid fire device < 1362348582 462002 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hth, thx, hth. < 1362348606 118975 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1362348640 9057 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :How efficient would be a Verilog implementation of the INTERCAL select ~ operator and its (almost) inverse (setting the unused bits to zero)? < 1362348671 715985 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: you could do it in one cycle, I don't know what the maximum clock speed would be < 1362348690 913820 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably you could get a very high clock speed if it was completely forwarded, but that might use a prohibitive amount of silicon < 1362348708 764023 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(forwarding is sort-of the hardware equivalent of unrolling) < 1362348716 867371 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1362348731 494763 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you could probably do it in four to six stages and still fit into one clock cycle < 1362348897 698193 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(If you use both operations together, it acts like a bitwise AND; you can also do various other things with these operations together in different ways.) < 1362349011 827112 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could also use them to encode and decode Morton numbers if you put -2/3 and -1/3 on the right operand. < 1362349255 192037 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really think they would be useful for various things. How would it affect existing processor cores if such an instruction was added in the Verilog code? < 1362349295 275702 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: the major change would be in the decoding logic, I think < 1362349306 577593 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not significantly slower, or different, to an addition, from the point of view of implementation < 1362349349 637391 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmmmmmmmmm < 1362349359 698681 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if modern processors use single-cycle multipliers < 1362349377 127534 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they exist but are really expensive in silicon < 1362349396 325468 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, I don't think the silicon use would be significant compared to, say, the L1 cache < 1362349460 935157 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Due to features like these, as well as other features such as BCD arithmetic, I would want a !asm metadata in LLVM which tells it that the result can be calculated using the specified assembly language instructions, even though there is a code or function or something calculating the same thing in the circumstances; this can be used for optimization. < 1362349664 786114 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I don't know if x86 does, but Amber uses Booth's multiplication and I don't know how many cycles it requires. < 1362349665 76148 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1362349665 703689 :Zerker!~zerker@cpe-24-24-168-181.socal.res.rr.com QUIT :Quit: Colloquy for iPad - Timeout (10 minutes) < 1362349745 213173 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, I found it; it is 34 clock cycles to multiply. < 1362349746 516074 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't the number of cycles for a multiplier dependent on the depth of the circuit (versus, like, the transistor depth for a cycle?) < 1362349751 874579 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :34? o_O < 1362349768 33133 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fiora: it depends on the number of registered stages in the circuit < 1362349768 314210 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :better recode that shit as shiftadds < 1362349788 421896 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that has a pretty strong correlation to the depth, because if your depth is too large compared to the number of stages, you have to slow down your clock speed to compensate < 1362349790 879008 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Quit: The struct held his beloved integer in his strong, protecting arms, his eyes like sapphire orbs staring into her own. "W-will you... Will you union me?" < 1362349795 871816 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yeah, that's what I meant, sorry < 1362349800 81581 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's going to keep that for a while isn't he < 1362349800 231324 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and modern processors try to run at the highest clock speed they physically can < 1362349814 149950 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1362349815 734633 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like, I figure a 64x64->128 1-cycle multiplier is probably not possible with the cycle depth required by like, an ivy bridge? < 1362349870 432064 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fiora: it is, there's a famous construction that shows that you can do any combinatorial circuit in one stage with just two levels of nand gates < 1362349899 893529 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you get a combinatorial explosion so it's not a useful one in practice, unless you can really spare the silicon and really need speed < 1362349912 798000 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's done for additions sometimes < 1362349953 496701 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :at which point does the size of the silicon start to limit what you can do? e.g. because of the speed of light being too low < 1362349969 208178 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that seems impossible...? like. two levels of nand gates means at most 4 bits of input < 1362349971 4019 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: we've hit that point already < 1362349980 495594 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can't figure out one bit of output in a 128-bit multiply from just 4 bits of input < 1362349984 682338 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fiora: very wide nand gates < 1362349987 169697 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. < 1362349996 629303 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about actual 2-input gates <.< < 1362350005 984525 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1362350008 861470 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know offhand < 1362350009 79108 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-24-160.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1362350009 479246 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-24-160.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1362350009 629166 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1362350029 658734 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but 3-input nand gates aren't particularly harder to build than 2-input nand gates, apart from having to try to connect three inputs to them < 1362350037 514591 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :routing overhead is one of the major problems with modern hardware design < 1362350038 463340 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that seems like the thing that actually matters? since like, more and more inputs means more delay doesn't it? < 1362350054 764696 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :a 128-input nand gate seems pretty crazy XD < 1362350056 424353 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not noticeably, apart from the routing problem < 1362350067 436275 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fwiw, six inputs seems to be the current standard in FPGAs < 1362350080 523273 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it used to be four at one point, and manufacturers are probably moving to higher numbers at the moment < 1362350151 582166 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The fastest multiplier I know is I think the ivy bridge multiplier < 1362350161 636469 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :In order to save energy and to be compatible with programs requiring slower clock speeds, there could be I/O ports to adjust the clock speed to slow it down if it is wanted; does this work? < 1362350163 368554 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least, like, in an actual hcip < 1362350166 358378 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :*chip < 1362350175 352214 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fiora: what I know is that if I accidentally ask for a single-cycle 32-bit multiply when writing a Verilog or VHDL program, the synthesizer knows how to handle it < 1362350187 88914 :Zerker!~zerker@cpe-24-24-168-181.socal.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1362350191 44301 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I still kinda wonder why they chose to allocate their gates like that but others didn't < 1362350203 622165 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does the floating point coprocessors work in ARM? < 1362350273 486678 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: does the synthesizer have, like, options that let you pick the sort of multiplier you want? < 1362350280 934874 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess in theory you could write your own... < 1362350287 999105 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fiora: the synthesizer implements what you write < 1362350295 281353 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant for like, how it implements a "*" < 1362350309 900245 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, * is single cycle, it has to be because there's no delay around it or the like < 1362350319 584341 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for longer multiplies, you instantiate modules from elsewhere < 1362350336 883695 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does Verilog even allow * in compiled codes? < 1362350341 484773 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, you get a 32-cycle multiply from your standard library < 1362350344 726644 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yes, but it doesn't allow / < 1362350352 803286 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think so... we used * and stuff in our MIPS chip in class... < 1362350369 203401 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want division, you need to get it from a library or implement it yourself < 1362350385 755011 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : why are you reminding me of this lambdabot? <-- i think this may be "things reset for no sensible reason day". as well as ais523 lawful good day, of course. <-- it reset for no sensible reason? < 1362350389 654048 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds buggy < 1362350390 44127 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it allow / in stuff other than compiled codes though? (such as in macros and constant expressions) < 1362350412 905670 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I don't know, I've never tried < 1362350419 767655 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it allows exponentiation in macros and constant expressions < 1362350429 733323 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and division is rather easier than exponentiation, so probably < 1362350491 381303 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? ais523 < 1362350493 312302 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Agent “Iä” Smith is an alien with a strange allergy to avian body covering, which he is trying to retroactively prevent from ever evolving. On the 3rd of March, he's lawful good. < 1362350496 493925 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I like that one ^ < 1362350542 130994 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it was up to me, no arithmetic operations would be allowed in compiled codes; they would be allowed only in constant expressions, macros, selectors, and ROM data; and otherwise you have to specify your own algorithms in terms of bitwise. < 1362350705 981369 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also would think their ought to be commands which means, that it would optionally use precompiled block in place of the specified block, which can be automatically selected based on the optimization and conditional compiler options, to ensure vendor-independent codes and still allow vendor-specific optimizations. < 1362350761 847723 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it have that? < 1362350762 930433 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :night → < 1362350790 462531 :Zerker!~zerker@cpe-24-24-168-181.socal.res.rr.com QUIT :Quit: Colloquy for iPad - Timeout (10 minutes) < 1362350920 413702 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, where's your link about files? < 1362350930 517000 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1362350931 353086 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which one < 1362350935 235144 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which thing..... which link < 1362350944 121010 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which files < 1362350945 259179 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the one that's anti-file < 1362351034 415770 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the coprocessors are omitted from Amber core, instead making the cache and privilege areas to be hard-coded, will it make the clock speed faster? < 1362351045 991194 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : [...] with just two levels of nand gates <-- that's just disjunctive normal form, i think. (unless i got confused and it's conjunctive instead.) < 1362351061 534472 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes, pretty much that < 1362351072 916776 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right down to the not being able to remember which is which < 1362351326 394199 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : sounds buggy <-- it's happened before that lambdabot messages get reset like that. but even worse, i hear they recently got their entire quote database reset several years back. < 1362351337 955239 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that wasn't today though.) < 1362351344 584224 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1362351346 603412 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :252) elliott: there go my minutes of research!! < 1362351351 584089 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait wrong one < 1362351352 597892 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@quote < 1362351353 61444 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hgolden says: pioneers are the ones with arrows in their backs. at least ours will be categorical arrows. < 1362351354 642657 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: perhaps http://catseye.tc/ehird/files-suck.html, which I should maybe get cpressey to edit with a note that I wrote it because I was annoyed at Unix and hence it's a lot more whiny than it needs to be, and doesn't fully reflect my current views < 1362351423 250170 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-d9329b26.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :files suck? lol < 1362351454 225675 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-d9329b26.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least that's pretty straight < 1362351457 322619 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tag systems fo lyfe < 1362351464 327571 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also my historical account of them is a bit wrong -- e.g. I was unaware of how Multics did things at the time I wrote it < 1362351475 151039 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I still dislike filesystems < 1362351503 84026 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :filesystems? more like thebestsystems < 1362351517 543139 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow I was annoying in 2010 < 1362351527 585465 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: more like vilesystems!!! < 1362351548 761299 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :more like badstupids < 1362351557 481720 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :im bested < 1362351593 243812 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :θs? more like badstupids < 1362351612 812117 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(THE JOKE IS GHC CODE IS FULL OF bad_stupid_theta) < 1362351649 793674 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the hell is theta < 1362351659 341106 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :greek letter < 1362351670 205226 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :thx < 1362351673 877548 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: bad & stupid < 1362351725 287419 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: It's a class context, I think. < 1362351731 228942 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe just a context in general? < 1362351735 343658 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in the thing to the left of => < 1362351774 401245 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, I had a really good esolang idea last sleep period < 1362351779 968641 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but haven't worked out the details < 1362351785 467691 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the basic idea is, the esolang is defined by an interpreter < 1362351794 951519 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whenever you run the interpreter, it mutates the language it interprets slightly < 1362351812 873711 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and always in such a way that every program you had ever successfully run through it would fail < 1362351824 462512 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to try to infer what the current state of the language is from the error messages < 1362351912 365321 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-d9329b26.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :true masochists leave out the error messages < 1362352119 994972 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-d9329b26.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how would be the mutation realized? kind of randomly? < 1362352134 737413 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-d9329b26.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :+be < 1362352145 264594 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-d9329b26.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no there was a be < 1362352215 624243 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd: What do you get out of being in this channel? < 1362352304 628904 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-d9329b26.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes someone says something interesting. or funny. or inspiring. but yea good question < 1362352432 989553 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly JOIN :#esoteric < 1362352605 866628 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-d9329b26.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's sad i can't remember how it's been since it was you who make me laugh < 1362352607 807777 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-d9329b26.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :a pity < 1362352711 368861 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :again, i have to ask < 1362352723 100051 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you actually think you're saying something clever here < 1362352771 248393 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you radiate this kind of cargo cult profundity < 1362352813 23373 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-d9329b26.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't understand what you're saying < 1362352856 775352 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"cargo cult profundity" probably is supposed to denote that you parrot profound things in a disjointed fashion divorced of their meaning < 1362352859 975540 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you sort of know the words and general comportment of someone saying insightful things about the world around them < 1362352877 466250 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just don't actually have any actual insightful things to say about the world around you < 1362352888 343798 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-d9329b26.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :aber sich ständig profilieren zu wollen, auch wenn man über leichen geht wäre nicht mein ding < 1362352913 271953 :c00kiemon5ter!~c00kiemon@foss-aueb/coder/c00kiemon5ter PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am here because I love fungot < 1362352913 742819 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :c00kiemon5ter: this rampart, shaped like a hen's egg, yet containing enough power to keep people away from those wild, haunted hills behind hoary and fnord arkham that all his forebears for forbidden cosmic secrets was a natural result of the action of water through more than seventeen years ago, when mans < 1362352916 830219 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-d9329b26.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :insofern ist es mir nicht so wichtig dass ich hier clever scheine < 1362352918 480872 :c00kiemon5ter!~c00kiemon@foss-aueb/coder/c00kiemon5ter PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, do you love me ? < 1362352918 909916 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :c00kiemon5ter: this sound, as complex and unplaceable as any of the fnord poor harley warren once had. it came from india while carter and i were not connected, wherefore our first knowledge of extraordinary conditions came from others. the farther he went, and when he resumed his voice was fnord music of deep viols and of crystalline spheres. we talked often in the night as he stood on that high marble terrace with the curious < 1362352932 599504 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :seguing into german for no good reason is not really proving otherwise, hagb4rd < 1362352939 317485 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-d9329b26.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :aber vielleicht kann ich auch etwas lernen < 1362352948 31725 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*segueing, apparently < 1362352958 742434 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that word was much cooler back when i only vaguely knew about it < 1362353019 813733 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :are segways still cool though < 1362353031 536929 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :inasmuch as they ever were < 1362353036 143499 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: i hear their coolness rolled off a cliff < 1362353052 336161 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello oerjan < 1362353056 9745 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome oerjan < 1362353058 257194 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) < 1362353129 945255 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd: you certainly don't have to be profound to be here. but i think what they're complaining about is that you make a lot of barely-in-context sentences that sound like you are _trying_ to be profound. < 1362353159 64588 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and failing. < 1362353173 990632 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never got any "trying to be profound" sense. < 1362353184 437163 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-d9329b26.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well.. i hope that's not my entire motivation < 1362353185 197919 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just that I see a lot of words with no point to them. < 1362353194 101149 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then I look to the left and it says . < 1362353277 580768 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok then mainly it's that barely-in-context part. < 1362353333 533638 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i'm sure he's not the only one to go through a period of making such comments. < 1362353348 684168 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ich sind klugbar < 1362353354 990502 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-d9329b26.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry. sometimes my brain makes weird associations. and i wonder about it myself < 1362353370 972367 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-d9329b26.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll try to compense < 1362353470 811703 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: Du machst Deutsch gutes, ja? < 1362353559 640208 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :am bestenlich < 1362353621 251351 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're both dutch? < 1362353627 131929 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should talk to taneb < 1362353648 527535 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought taneb was Hexhamish. < 1362353720 325652 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hexham am Main < 1362353727 540933 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-d9329b26.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and to answer Phantom_Hoovers question. no! i don't think i'm THAT clever. unfortunatly i'm not a good mathematician and not the best programmer. yes, i like philosphy and i like to wonder. also you guys impressed me very much, and that's mostly the reason i came here and ..am still here < 1362353775 367253 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-d9329b26.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no not impressed me < 1362353801 422181 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-d9329b26.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :impressed is correct :) < 1362353852 409512 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-d9329b26.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :had to check this in my dictionary < 1362353889 614635 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :impressario < 1362353893 23169 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-d9329b26.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :si < 1362353896 692544 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(see i too make random comments) < 1362353904 475561 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-d9329b26.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :\o/ < 1362353988 433584 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!logs < 1362354460 601805 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : (and yes, the workaround involves exhausting your pid space by forking until it wraps around and hits the value you're expecting) < 1362354468 639681 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this reminds me of anarchy golf < 1362354498 916565 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't mitsuhiko play anagolf or something < 1362354502 36279 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I'm misremembering a name < 1362354559 236677 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, perhaps < 1362354562 966386 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although that was a different context < 1362354638 854097 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, what was the context? < 1362355002 992661 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: working around a bug in Upstart < 1362355009 497613 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also: http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/19kjr5/fizzbuzz_revisited_using_rust/c8p452k < 1362355019 763698 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone's unfinished attempt to write FizzBuzz in Homespring < 1362355029 946149 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I applaud them for trying (and in fact, for having heard of the language) < 1362355034 627352 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :beautiful < 1362355068 688230 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least, they didn't say it was Homespring, but it's obvious < 1362355118 457215 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would find these select encode and decode operations to both be very useful in various C programs I write. < 1362355152 323635 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would you find it useful?